The Sun.
London, England, 1859-04-19 00:00:00

QUESTION.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, having
brought up to the table, by command of her Majesty, copies
of treaties, political and territorial, relative to the Italian
States, said—Sir, in moving that these papers be laid upon
the table I shall redeem my pledge to the house, and shall
afford an opportunity to hon. gentlemen to make any obser-
vations they may wish, and I am sure that in so doing they
will make those remarks with all the reserve that is in their
opinion consistent with the exercise of a public duty. I
promised that I would to-day place before the house the
state of the negotiations which are now being carried on
respecting the affairs of Italy. I think it was towards the
close of the last year that her Majesty's Government were
aware that there was a considerable sense of irritation be-
tween France and Austria. Her Majesty's Goverment,
instructed the Queen's Ministers at the Courts of Paris and
Vienna to take every practicable opportunity to soften that
acerbity of feeling, and to remove misconceptions between
those two Courts. At the beginning of the year—indeed,
on the very first day of the year—circumstances occurred
which I am sure are in the recollection of the house,
which rendered that misunderstanding between France
and Austria a matter of public notoriety. Her Ma-
jesty's Government then felt that they were placed in
a position which entitled them to ask for more
direct explanations than previously they had thought
themselves authorised to demand. France was an
intimate ally of this country, with whom we were acting
with cordiality on many important questions, and between
Austria and England there had been a good understanding
of ancient date, and founded on very deep feeling. It ap-
peared to us, therefore, that it was an occasion when her
Majesty might interfere, and by the exercise of her influ-
ence and her good offices might tend to maintain that ge-
neral peace in which the world is so much interested. Our
position was at that moment, and, indeed, is at present,
very favourable to an undertaking of the kind. I think at
the beginning of this year we may say that which perhaps
in the nature of things it has very rarely been in the power
of any Minister to say—l do not claim any merit to the
Government for it, but it is the fact—that neither with the
Powers of the first class nor with the Powers of the second
class, nor, indeed, with any portion of the political and
monarchical hierarchy, was there any misunderstanding
with this country. There was no question of controversy
with any of the Powers of Europe existing at the moment,
and therefore our position was one extremely favourable
to our assuming the part of mediator. Under these cir-
cumstances, the Queen's Ambassador at Paris and the
Minister at Vienna received instructions to inform them-
selves to the utmost of their ability as to the character of
the relations between France and Austria, and what were
the probable motives of that general want of cordiality
which had too evidently arisen between those two great
Powers. Several causes were supposed to be in existence
which contributed to that unfortunate misunderstanding.
What was occurring on the Danube, and other causes, were
alleged, but some of these were happily removed and re-
dressed by diplomatic management, and I think it soon be-
came very evident that the real and more permanent cause
of misapprehension was to Le found in the existing state of
Italy. Her Majesty accordingly instructed Lord Cowley
to take all possible means for ascertaining the views of the
Emperor of the French upon that subject ; and Lord Cow-
ley, who was responded to with the same frankness which
he himself exhibited, informed us that he believed he was in
possession of the general views and feelings of the Emperor
of the French upon the position of affairs. Now, I may
perhaps be allowed to make an observation upon what were
the views of her Majesty's Government at that time upon
that question. I believe I may say that, generally speaking,
those views were such as have always been expressed in this
and the other House of Parliament by eminent statesmen
of all schools and parties. •We could not for a moment
maintain that the general condition of Italy was a satisfac-
tory one. Her Majesty's Government during the Confer-
ences of Paris had assented to the propriety of inquiring
into the cause of the discontent which then prevailed in
some parts of Italy. We were of opinion—an opinion shared
in, I should think, by all persons who have deeply, reflected
upon this subject—that it would be most unwise to disturb
the settlement which had been made by the treaties of 1815.
The position which Austria took in Italy at the time of the
settlement of 1815 was rather recommended to her by the
great statesmen upon whom then devolved the settlement of
1-11'ope than sought by Austria herself. It was said to be
a matter of very great importance in the maintenance of the
balance of power that Austria should exercise a preponde
rating influence in Italy. It was also then considered that
the kingdom of Sardinia, which during the revolutionary
struggles had not shown the power which was thought ex-
pedient, should be greatly increased in authority and
strength. These were the two principal objects of the set-
tlement of 1815, so far as Italy is concerned ; nor is there any
gl:eater error than to suppose that when we speak of the
tenroaenthat ot alfloBnlse
is wiothonrooesrnpeocd. respect to
Bletfaolryeitthiastthseettilnetmereenstt
of
Lattl
IfeBrlisor%eardviiiiaiita herselfd was comparatively a Power of very in-
greatly t: e. It was the settlement of 1815 that added
possible to
charater, territory of Sardinia and to her purely Italian
cupation of the7c—
eerned, a
poozwcieT converted her into, so far as Italy is con-
den of considerable importance. But it was inl-
and the exercise nor did w© wish to deny—that the oc-
were aeknowleds.el
be
edstitsf
entral States of Italy by a foreign army
Vienna, and bAse Austrian influence over States which
to be independent by the Congress of
of things extremely inlet Of•
that Congress, was a condition
desirable should story, and one which it was
Generally speaking, possible, removed. '
atnlon that it was not wise
desirable in Italy, oeurrovoha.tever changes we thought
to seek their removal by war
by revoluton—Qmar)—
giltaaw4at' wad, if

but rather by the influence of public opinion, which every
year is becoming more powerful, and by the good offices of
those Sovereigns whose general influence in Europe en-
abled them to make their advice prevail. Lord Cowley
having been apprised by the Government of the views upon
which I have touched, and having reported that his inter-
views and conversation with the Emperor of the French
were satisfactory, we requested him to repair to London,
where we had the advantage of conferring with him, and
shortly afterwards her Majesty directed that he should pro-
ceed to Vienna. Lord Cowley did not go to Vienna in what
is called an official capacity, and he did not receive formal
instructions, but he had conferred amply with her Majesty's
Government, and the object of his mission was that, being
placed in possession—and that he had been there is no doubt
—of the intentions and views of the Emperor of the French,
he should ascertain how far it was practicable for Austria to
meet the policy indicated by the Emperor, and in so meet-
ing it lay the basis of a settlement for Italy more satisfac-
tory than the existing one, and tending to the preservation
of peace. I ought to have observed that before Lord Cowley
undertook that duty, as it was considered that it might lead
to some misunderstanding if the Emperor of the French
found the Ambassador accredited to his own Court sent on
a mission of this kind, a communication was made to his
Majesty on the subject; and I am bound to say that the
Emperor approved with the utmost cordiality of the choice
we had made in Lord Cowley, as one who entirely possessed
his views on the subject, and who was likely also to possess
the confidence of the Court of Vienna. Now, I believe I
am using expressions which are perfectly justified whey I
say that the mission of Lord Cowley was eminently, and
not merely eminently but entirely, successful. It was a
mission of mediation. The Emperor of Austria responded
to it in the spirit in which it was conducted ; all the points
that had been suggested for consideration by the Emperor
of the French were candidly and cordially considered ; and
when Lord Cowley returned to London on his immediate
way to Paris there was not a doubt on his mind, or on the
mind of the Government, that the mediation had been suc-
cessful, and that we should be able completely to arrange
those points of controversy which prevailed with regard to
Italy between France and Austria. Before, however, Lord
Cowley could arrive at Paris, the Court of St. Petersburg,
animated, I make no doubt, by the same feelings which in-
spired us—namely, the desire to prevent war—had proposed
to the Emperor of the French that these subjects of con-
troversy in Italy should be submitted to the consideration
of a Conference, and his Majesty had accepted that proposal,
the Congress, according to the suggestion made, to be com-
posed of the five great Powers. When we were informed
of this overture we were at the same time apprised that in
due course an official offer of the same kind would be made
to her Majesty's Government. Now, however fortunate we
might have been in the scheme of mediation which had been
thus far conducted, and so successfully conducted, we had to
consider what chance we should have of completing those
arrangements when another plan, which had the sanction and
acceptance of the Emperor of the French, was already, not in
intentional rivalry, but in actual emulation with our own.
We therefore thought, in order that time,which was precious
uuder such circumstances, should not be lost, that it would
be wise to accept the scheme of the Congress, instead of
the plan of mediation which we had hitherto promoted ;
and before the formal proposal of a Congress was made to
the Government, we had communicated with the Court of
St. Petersburg, notifying our willingness to agree to the
Congress, provided it was formed upon the four conditions
with which, I have no doubt, the house, from many sources,
may be familiar, but which it is proper I should put authen-
tically before it. That the Congress was not to interfere
with the settlement of 1815 was universally admitted. The
four conditions on which it was proposed that the meeting
of the Congress should take place were—firstly, the evacua-
tion of the Roman States by foreign troops ; secondly, the
reform of the administration of the Roman States; thirdly,
the best means of preventing a war breaking out between
Austria and Sardinia ; and, fourthly, the providing a sub-
stitute for the separate treaties which had been entered into
between Austria and the Central States of Italy. These four
conditions were accepted by France, by Russia, and by
Prussia. They were also accepted by Austria with a fifth
condition, which was really nothing more than a fair inter-
pretation of the third, which, as I said before, involved the
consideration of the best means of preserving peace between
Austria and Sardinia. This fifth 'condition was, I repeat,
nothing more than an interpretation of the third, for it sim-
ply furnished a definition of the best means of preserving
peace, which, in the opinion of Austria, were to be found in
the disarmament of Sardinia. Now, when Austria made
that proposition to her Majesty's Government we did not
approve that any course should be taken which should
humiliate Sardinia, which should have that tendency, or
which should weaken her power. We said, therefore, that
we could not approve a condition which would secure the
disarmament of Sardinia as a preliminary to any considera-
tion of the general affairs which would be submitted to the
notice of the Congress. But as it was a matter of great
importance that this difficulty should be removed, and that
the Congress should, if possible, assemble, we offered to
France, that if Sardinia should disarm, we and France
should guarantee her against any attack from Austria
for a certain period, Austria entering into a solemn
engagement not to attack Sardinia. That proposition, how-
ever, was not accepted. At that moment, therefore, the pro-
position for a Congress was not accepted by the five great
Powers of which it was to be constituted in accordance with
the original proposition. Well, we had, under these circum-
stances, to bring the question again before the Court of
Vienna, and Austria, I am bound to say, in that spirit of
dignified conciliation which she, upon the whole, exhibited
throughout those negotiations, consented to waive the invi-
dious condition of the disarmament of Sardinia, and pro-
posed that there should be a general disarmament of the
European Powers. Now, that was a proposition which was
received with favour by her Majesty's Government, and we
submitted it to the Court of the Tuileries. It was just after
we had done so, and before we had received any reply on the
subject, that the noble lord the member for Tiverton gave
notice that it was his intention to bring forward the general
question of the state of these negotiations, and it was because
we had not received the reply that I felt it my duty to ask
the noble lord some few evenings ago not to press the ques-
tion. Since then an answer has come to us from France, and
she has accepted theproposition of Austria that there should
be a general disarmament. (Hear, hear.) Whether that
general disarmament should take place before the meeting
of the Congress, or whether when the Congress meets it
should be the first subject taken into its consideration, is a
point which is not settled. There are isvii opinions with
respect to it. Austria is in favour of ageneral disarma-
ment taking place before the assembling of the Congress;
France would prefer that when the Con' met the ques-
tion of a general disarmament should be which should
be first brought under discussion. Her lifiljeky's Govern
merit would approve very much of the -*suggestion of
Austria if all the other powers werertegually favour-
able to it ; but, unfortunately, the prop "ass of a general
disarmament has not as yet been aceevted by Sardinia,
and therefore it is useless to go into matturoef detail when
the principle has not been accepted. 'Whether the dis-
armament should be entered into before thesOongress meets,
or whether the condition of a general disaienament should
be the first subject discussed by the Coneass, are matters
which really sink into secondary importance•when there is
a Power so much interested in those affairs as Sardinia
which has not accepted the very principl64f disarmament.
Now, it is understood that Sardinia hes trot accepted this
principle of disarmament because she hasinot been invited
to be present in the Congress, and upon that point I would,
with the permission of the house, make onottr, two observa-
tions. There is no doubt that in this country great sym-
pathy has been enlisted in favour of Sardinia--(hear, hear)
—and notwithstanding there has been some change in the
strength of those sentiments as compared with what they
were some little time ago, and notwithstanding that there
has been much that was embarrassing, perplexing, and even
ambiguous, in the conduct of Sardinia, I am bound to say
I believe, on the whole, the feeling of this country is not
wanting either in justice or kindness towards her. (Cheers.)
On the part of her Majesty's Government also I am quite
sure I may state that we , are willing and prepared to place
the most generous interpretation on her conduct, looking at
the difficulties which she" has had to encounter and the ex-
ploits which she has accomplished. (Cheers.) I need not,
therefore, say that we hiVe considered' the- ggestion of the
presence of Sardinia at the Congress withoutTrejudice, but
I would remind the house that the proposition to which I
have referred was one for a Congress of the five great
Powers, and that it was made by a Power supposed to be
very favourable to Sardinia to a Power known to be very
friendly to Sardinia. The proposition being such as I have
stated it to be, it was difficult to know hose-Sardinia could
appear as a member of the Congress. It has, indeed, been
said that Sardinia was represented at the Congress of Paris,
and no doubt that was so. But Sardinia-won her place in
that Congress by the performance of deeds which reflected
great glory and reputatiiin on the people •of that country
as well as upon her alders and Minikes& (Cheers )
She had taken a very splinted part ba.s. the Crimean war.
(Cheers.) She had made- v-at exertions Ond endured great
sacrifices. She was, thbrefore, fairly entitled, when the
settlement of the struggle in which she *la engaged was
being completed, to take'her place in, he council by which
that settlement was effected. (Hear, hear.) But in the pre-
sent instance hon. gentlemen will feel in atmoment that the
difficulty by which we art met cannot be easily surmounted.
Here is a Copgress whisk is to consist of,the great Powers
of Europe. Sardinia is hot a great Powers-- Is she to attend
at the Congress as a secondary Power ? 2fsir, what superior
claim to any other secondszy Power has she to that privi-
lege ? Why should Sardinia be represen,ted-at the Congress
any more than Sweden or-Portugal or Holland ? (Hear.)
But then it may be said Ahat Sarlinia is an Italian State,
and that as such she is entitled to take pa Tt in the proceed-
ings of the Congress. (Hear.) But if S a4-tha, is to sit in the
Congress as an Italian State, surely otherlisdian States have
an equal right to do so. Have they not soMething more than
an equal right ? The Congress which it:is:Proposed should
meet will have to deal with the inter •• _other Italian
States, but cannot touch Sardinia or h terests. They
tut4l
depend on the settlement of 1815, and • ar inia cannot be
influenced in any way by any arrangement that may be re-
commended by the Congress ; for whn:ever decision it may
arrive at can only take the form of: a (recommendation.
There was, in our opinion, a means br which from the com-
mencement, the sentiments of the Italian States might be
consulted without their being members :of the Congress.
We might have followed the precedent.whichswas pursued
in the case of the Conferences which wersisheld in London,
when Holland and Belgium, although nit members of it,
appeared before the Conference and stated- their opinions.
We might have followed Aloe precedent„,still more analo-
gous, of the Congress on..aybach, in which the affairs of
Italy were taken into consideration by the great
Powers, and in which, I believe, almost Al .the States
of Italy took a part, sometimes sitting-- in the Con-
gress themselves. This; •at all events,-. I may say, that
her Majesty's Government, so far from opposing the
appearance of Sardinia irCthe Congress itit -were practic-
able, urged en the other great Poweraotgurope their de-
sire that the precedents furnished by the Conferences of
London and Laybach should be followed end that means
should be found by which the interests and, wishes of the
Italian States should be sal forth and repriaiented by them-
selves. Well, this is the condition of affairs. I have now
stated the facts of the case to the house. I have pointed out
what has been the course of these negotiations. I have
shown the house that the original scheiriseof her Majesty's
Government was that q mediation -between France and
Austria. I have also eliewn that there; was every prospect
that that mediation would be successful, and how, in conse-
quence of a counter proposition, it assumed the form of an
intended Congress. I have pointed out to the house that her
Majesty's Government have done everything in their power
to facilitate the assembling of that Congress and to bring
about a satisfactory state of affairs. We are, therefore, sir,
in this condition at the present moment:—France and Aus-
tria have alike accepted the principle of a general disarma-
ment, although on the immediate manner in which that dis-
armament should be carried into effect they are not agreed.
Sardinia has not agreed to the disarmament, on account, it
is understood, of her not having been summoned in person
to the Congress. It might be hoped, under these circum-
stances, that the difficulty on the part of' Sardinia would,
at least, not prove insurmountable ; but I have the satisfac-
tion to inform the house that this ;nerning the Marquis
d'Azeglio arrived in this country on a• special mission from