The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-16 00:00:00

NOES-168.

Adderley, C. B. Gard, R. S. Moody, C. A.
Akroyd, Edward Gladstone, W. E. Morgan, C. 0. S.
Arbuthnott, Gen.H. Goddard, A. L. Mowbray, Rt. Hn. J.
Bernie, Charles Graham, Lord Wm. Naas. Rt. lin. Lord
Baillie, 11.. T. Greaves, Edward Neeld, .T.
Bernard, Lient.-Col Griffith, C. D. -Newdegate, C. N.
Barrow, W. H. Grogan, Edward Newport, Visct.
Bathurst, A. A. Gurney, John H. Nisbet, R. P.
Beach, W. W. B. Haddo,Lord Noel, Hon. G. J.
Beecroft, G. S. Hall, Maj.-Gen., J. North, .1. S.
Bennet, Capt. P. Hamilton, Lord C. Northcote, Sir S. H.
Bentinck, G. W. P. Hanbury, Captain Ossulston, Lord
Beresford, W. Handley, John Packe, C. W.
Blackburn, P. Hardy, Gathorne Pakenham, T. H.
Boldero, Lt.-Col. Henley, J. Pakington, Sir J. S
Botfield, Beriah Henniker, Lord Palmer, R.
Bramley-Moore, J. Herbert, S. Patten, J. W.
Bramston, T. W. Hodgson, W. l'eel, Rt. lion. .T.
Bridges, Sir 8., Bt. Hopwood, J. T. Pennant, Hon. E.G.
Bruce, C. L. C. Hornby, W. H. Pevensey, Viscount
Burghley, Lord Hothara, Gen. Lord Philips, John Henry
Burrell, Sir C., Bt. Hudson. G. Pugh, D. (Mont.)
Cairns,, Sir H., Hume, W. Puller, C. W. _

Calcrait, J. If. Ingestire, Viscount itOi;eii.son,l'. F.
Carden, Ald. Sir 11. Johnstone, Hon. H. ilust, J.
Cartwright, Col. H. Johnstone, J. J. IL Scott, Hon. F.
Cecil, Lord It. • JollitFe, Sir W. Scott, Major K
Child, Smith JolliiFe, Capt. H. Seymcr, li. K.
Christy, S. .Tones, D. Shirley, E. P.
Churchill, Lord A. Kekewich, S. Sibthorp, G. T. W
Close, M. C. Kendall, N. S mol lett,. A.
Cobbold, John C. Kerrison, Sir E. SpOoner, R.
Codrington, Sir W. King, J. K. Stirling, Wm.
Cole, Hon. H. A. Knatchbull, W. Steuart, A.
__ _

Cole, J. L. Knight, F. ' Stewart, Sir M. R.
Corry, H. T. L. Knightley, R. Sturt, H. G.
Cross, It. A. Knox, Lt.-C01.8.W. Taylor, Lt.-Col. T.
Curzon, Viscount Knox, Major W. S Tollemache, John
Davison, Richard Langton, W. H.P.G. Trefusis, Hon. C. H.
Disraeli. Benjamin Lefroy, A. Trollope, Sir John
Drummond, Henry Legit, G. C. Vance, John
Du Cane, Chas. Lennox, Lord A. F. Vansittart, G. H.
Duncombe, Rear Ad. Liddell, Hon. H. G. Vansittart, Wm.
Duncombe, 0. Lisburne, Earl of Verner, Sir Wm.
Du Pre. C. G. Lockhart, A. E. Waddington, H. P.
East, Sir J. B. Lovaine, Lord Walcott, Adm. J. E.
Edwards, Major H. Lyra], G. Walp de, S. H.
Egerton,Wilbraham Lygon, Hon. F. Walsh, Sir J. B.
Elebo Lord Nfacartney, E. Welby. W. E.
Elmley, Viscount Malins, R., Whitmore, H.
Emlyn, Viscount Manners, Ld J. J.R. Wyndham, Gen. H.
Estcourt, T. S. March, Earl of Wynn, Lt-Col HW.
Farquhar, Sir W. Maxwell, Lt.-Col.J. Wynne, W. W. E.
Fellowes, Edward Miles, W. Yorke,Hon. E. T.
Ferguson, Sir R. A. Miller, T. J. TELLERS,
Forester, Col. G. C. Mills, A. Deedes, Wm.
Foster, Sir G. Montgomery, Sir G. Hope, A.

For. • Against.
Hon. F. Tolle-
mache Mr. Bovill
Mr. J. H. Foley Mr. Farnham
Mr.B.Willyams Mr. Franklyn
Mr. F. North Mr. Percy
Ld. Grosvenor Sir P. Egerton
Mr. Bazley Ld.A.Tempest
Mr. W. Foster Earl of Lincoln
Mr. J. Ewart Capt.Annesley
Colonel Tynte Lord Newark
Mr. Lowe Mr. Stanhope
Mr. Traill Mr. Re ton
Sgt. Kinglake Mr. Holford
Mr. Marsh Mr. P. Nisbet
Col. Biddulph Mr. .T. Hardy.
Mr. Mellor Col. Gilpin
Mr. Sheridan Mr. D. Darner
Mr. Cogan Mr. Alexander
Mr. Wyvili Sir E. Hayes
Lord E. Bruce Mr. Cayley
Mr. G. Glyn Mr. J. Warre
Mr. G. Clive Mr. 0. Gore

For. Against.
Mr. Russell
(Limerick) Col. Forde
Mr. J. B. Smith Col. Somerset
Mr. Fenwick Mr. Paull
Mr. C. Fitzwil-

Liam
Mr. I'ryse
Mr. Bland
Col. White
Mr. Mostyn

Lord Galway
Mr. Bruen
Mr. Dobbs
Mr. Cooper
Sir W. Heath-

cote.
Mr. Foljambe Sir M. Lopes
Capt. Mangles Mr. Collins
Mr. Cheetham Lord E. Hill
Mr. Talbot Mr. M'Clintock
Ld, Castlerosse Mr. Macaulay
Mr. Caird Col. Williams
Mr. Mackinnon,
jun. Capt. Gray
Sir M. Cholme-

ley Mr. S. Miller
Mr. W. P. Price Mr. J. W. Dod
Mr. R. Craw-

Lord C. Paget Lord bilieith
Mr. Tite Mr. S. Booth

ford

Mr. Baring

THE lONIAN ISLANDS.

The following is the Speech of his Excellency
the Lord High Commissioner to the Most Noble
the Legislative Assembly of the said States, on the
Ist of March, 1859 :

"Mr. President and Gentlemen,
"I call together the Parliament on the day re-
ferred to in the Constitutional Charter for its
assembly.
"It would have been more convenient to me, and
probably also to the members of the Legislature,
who have been so lately summoned to a special
Session, to have deferred until a later period of the
biennium the meeting of Parliament for the de-
spatch of ordinary business. But I have been de-
sirous not to lengthen the period during which ar-
rangements could be made only by a provisional
authority for part of the public expenditure.
" I cannot, therefore, permit any time to elapse
without submitting for the consideration and ap-
proval of the Legislative Assembly the extraordi-
nary expenditure to be incurred in these States
during the ordinary recess of Parliament.
" I recommend to the earliest attention of the
Legislative Assembly the Budget which will be
laid on the table by the most illustrious the Senate.
" I am most anxious to visit and minutely in-
spect for myself, not only the public departments
and institutions of the country at Corfu, the seat
of Government, but at the other islands forming
the Septinsular State.
"It is my, intention to devote a considerable
period to this important duty, to put myself in per-
sonal communication with all classes of the com-
munity, to inquire into the real wants of the
country, and to endeavour to accomplish the anxious
wish of my heart, the happiness and welfare of
the lonian people."
The President of the Assembly, Sir Dionysius
Count Flarnburiani, then addressed his Excellency
as follows :

c, Excellency,
" As the Speaker of the house, I cannot give a
specific reply to your Excellency's speech before the
Assembly pronounces its decision.
"In the meanwhile, we rejoice at meeting
your
Excellency on this the first day of the Second Session
of the present Parliament.
" I shall have the honour of announcing to your
Excellency the day on which I shall be able to
present to you the reply of the Assembly."

TIIE IRISH SECRET SOCIETIES.—The trial of the
prisoners on a charge of Conspiracy minst the Crown,
which has occupied the Court for some c -s at Tralee, was
il
brought to a conclusion, for the present a least, yesterday.
a
The jury were unable to agree in theirverdict, and the trial
was postponed till March 30, The jury were discharged.

IMPERIAL PARLIAINIEN

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY),
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

STADE DUES.
The Earl of CLARENDON said yesterday he had given
notice to the Government that he intended to ask
for some information with respect to the Stade
Dues. The subject was one of considerable:interest
to the shipping interest, and he wished to know what course
they intended to pursue. A committee of the House of
Commons inquired into the subject, and the result had been
to ascertain that the Stade dues had greatly in-
creased during late ' years. In 1847 the sum of
£3 10s. was charged upon a hundred tons of cer-
tain goods, whilst in 1855 £4 6s. 4d was levied upon the
same commodities. He therefore wished to know whether
the treaty was to be considered as expired after the 14th of
August ? He also wished to know whether there was any
intention to lay a copy of the correspondence that had taken
place on the table of their lordships' house ?
A The Earl of MALMESBURY said he should abstain
from giving any opinion on the subject of the treaty
with Hanover. Negotiations were still . going on
between this Government and Hanover in re-
ference to the Stade Dues. Complaints had been
made that the dues levied were heavier than they ought to
be. The British Government had given 12 months' notice
of their intention to terminate the treaty under which they
were levied. If the negotiations failed, and the treaty ex-
pired, the correspondence relating to the subject would be
laid on the table.

INDICTABLE OFFENCES BILL.
On the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, this bill was
read a second time.
INCLOSURE BILL.
_ _

On the motion of the Earl of CARNARVON, this bill was
read a second time.
MEDICAL ACT (1858) AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a second time, after a few remarl:s
from Lord CRANWORTH.

PRIVATE BILLS.
Lord REDESDALE moved that every private bill in-
cluded in either of the two classes of private bills in standing
order No. 178, and which shall have been brought from the
House of Commons, shall, after the first reading of any
such bill, be referred to the examiners of standing orders for
private bills, before whom the compliance with such stand-
ing orders, as shall not have been previously inquired into,
shall be proved. The examiner shall give at least two clear
days' notice of the day on whichany such bills shall be exa-
mined ; and Every memorial complaining of non-compli-
ance with the standing orders in the case of such bills
shall be deposited in the office of the Clerk of the Parlia-
ments, together with two copies thereof, before 12 o'clock
on the day preceding that appointed for the examination
of any such bill.—Agreed to.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKNR took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock.
NEW MEMBER.

Mr. BLACKBURN took the oaths and his seat on his re-
election for Stirling.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Findhorn Railway Bill was read a third time and
passed; the Tweed Fisheries, &c., Bill went through com-
mittee and was ordered for third reading.
On the motion of Mr. FITZROY the following was
agreed to :—" That whenever any private bill, which in
pursuance of any report from the chairman of ways and
means, under standing order 67, has originatedin the House
of Lords, shall have been brought from the House of Lords,
such bill, after having been read a first time, shall be re-
ferred to the examiner of petitions for private bills, before
whom the compliance with such orders as shall not have
been previously inquired into shall be proved. That the
examiner shall give at least two clear days' notice in the
private bill office of the day on which the same will be
examined".

Mr.. SALISBURY moved that the minutes of the evi-
dence taken before the committees on the Liverpool Dock
Bill and the Birkenhead Docks Bill in session 1855, and the
Mersey Docks and Harbour Bill in session 1857, be referred
to the committee on the Mersey Docks and Harbour Bill.
—Agreed to.

PETITIONS.
Petitions were presented praying for the-rejection of the
Government Reform Bill, and the abolition of church-rates.

CHURCH-RATES ABOLITION 1314.
Sir J. TRELAWNY moved the second reading of this
bill.

Mr. GRIFFITH moved the following :—"That any
amendment of the law relating to church-rates which
should exempt persons contributing to the support of some
other place of worship than the parish church from the
payment of the rate, at the same time that the existing
machinery for the support of the fabric of the Church of
England should be continued in operation upon
the members of her own communion, is worthy
of the consideration of this house." He strongly
complained of the bill being brought before the con-
sideration of the house in a summary and unparliamen-
tary manner. He had no opportunity of expressing his
opinion on the principle of the bill if he did not avail him-
self of the present. The measure was of the most one-sided
character, and the way in which it was hurried on was cal-
culated to stifle discussion. There was a great degrce of
intolerance prevalent amongst the dissenting community at
the present time, and he could not see why the compromise
proposed in 1858 should not be accepted in 1859. Tne posi-
tion held by Dissenters, who supported the measure on the
ground that they were opposed to all state churches, was, he
contended, most fallacious. It had been contended that all
endowments for charitable or religious purposes were
wrong, but that abstract principle was falsified in prac-
tice, for he had never heard of an hospital or a chapel having
refused a donation of £l,OOO. (Hear.) He denied that we
lived in a state of abstract Christianity, and he maintained
that endowments were necessary to maintain religious edi-
fices in this country. In his observations he did not wish
to be understood as asserting the infallibility of the Church
of England, for, ,on the contrary, he believed there were
many points of doctrine which many churchmen would
desire to alter, but that did not at all effect the real ques-
tion at issue. Any person supporting the bill would be
virtually going to the extent of doing away with
the State Church altogether. (" No, no.")
To show the feeling that existed on the part
of Dissenters, he referred to the report of a meeting of
the Society for the Liberation of the Church front the State,
at which the hon. baronet (Sir J. Trelawny) presided.
Sir J. TRELAWNY denied that he was present at the
meeting alluded to.
Mr. QRIFFITH—A letter was read from the hon.
baronet, stating that he was prevented from presiding by
the state of his health ; and he wished to know whether
the hon. baronet intended to preside at that meeting ? (Cries
of " Order.")

The SPEAKER decided that the hon. member was out
of order.

Mr. GRIFFITH—To show the feeling that actuated the
Dissenters in reference to this subject, he would quote from
a report of the proceedings at the meeting in question. The
hon. gentleman then read certain extracts from the docu-
ments mentioned, in which the speaker set forth that in
asking for the abolition of church-rates they had an ulterior
object, and that object, no doubt, was to do away with the
State Church altogether. (Cries of " Divide.") He hoped
hon. members would remember that it was a morning
sitting, especially devoted to the discussion of this question.
(Laughter.) The hon. member proceeded, amid consider-
able interruption, to reiterate the views he had previously
expressed. There was a bill coming from the other house
which was intended to hold forth the olive branch, and it
would be most illogical to agree to the second reading of the
present bill, which would preclude the consideration of any
other measure on the subject. He concluded by moving the
amendment.

Mr. S. ESTCOURT said that ho hoped the hon. mem-
ber would not press his amendment, because it could produce
no result, and would not give a negative to the bill of the
hon. baronet. He considered that the hon. but. had acted
most creditably, and had endeavoured to accommodate all
parties. This subject had already been fully discusscd,and
he hoped that the house would come to the issue of " aye •
or " nay" on the present occasion
Mr. STEUAR r intended to oppose the second reading
of the bill, but he objected to the practice pursued by the
hon. member inlaying before the house an abstract resolu-
tion as an amendment. He did not think that the consti-
tuents of hon. members agreed in the views of those who
were desirous of doing away with the church establishment,
which would be the result of the adoption of the present
bill.

Mr. GRIFFITH said that in conformity with the wishes
of the house he would not press his amendment.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the motion
was then put to the house.
Mr. A. B. HOPE moved that the bill be read a second
time that day six months. He denied most strongly that
the majority of dissenters were in favour of the abolition of
church rates, and the movement to effect that object origi-
nated with the " Society for the Liberation of the Church
from all Government Control." The hon. member quoted
an article from the Nonconfm mist, to show that the attempt
to effect the abolition of church-rates was only a means to
an end, namely, the destruction of the State Church. He
also read a pamphlet emanating from the institution in
question calling on Dissenters to oppose the continuance of
these rates. There had been a proposition before them on
a former occasion, which he was happy to find not brought
under their consideration this session. He alluded to the
imposition of a fabric rate. If the Liberation Society suc-
ceeded in their object, the Dissenters would derive no
benefit, and their whole religious system would be placed
under the control of a grinding beaureocraey. That was
the state which prevailed in various parts of the
continent, and there religious liberty was
un-
known. He denounced most strongly one of the grounds
in support of the bill, namely, that the maintenance_ of the
Church of late years had effected so much that these rates
were not required. Was it because Churchmen had made
such noble sacrifices that they should be despoiled of flick
ancient and just inheritance ?
Mr. DEEDES seconded the amendment. For a con-
siderable time he had indulged the hope that this subject
might be settled on solid grounds, but he almost despaired
of that result, after what had fallen from the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield last session, who
said, "We have a majority, and nothing will
satisfy us but an abolition of church-rates."
Ho objected to the term compromise being used in refer-
ence to this matter, because it implied the relinquishing of
some principle ; but he was ready to give the Nonconfor-
mists some equivalent for the hardships of which they com-
plained. He admitted that they (the Nonconformists) had
ground for complaining of the manner in which church-
rates had been applied, and he was ready to con-
sent to an amendment in the law in regard to that
point. Ho proposed to give the churchwardens the
same powers as overseers of roads and other bodies pos-
sessed, and empower them, without going to vestry, to levy
a small rate during their term of office for carrying on the
reptlirs of the church.
Mr. B, OSBORNE considered the time for compromise
had gone by. He denied that tho agitation on this ques-
tion was fictitious, and he quoted the words of Dr. Lush-
ington, when examined before a committee on the subject,
who said that he had an experience of 40 years in reference
to the agitation, and that it was increasing in intensity
every day. (Hear, hear.) He asked the house whether
any hon. member considered the state of law was satis-
factory ? Had not the house been tinkering with the sub-
ject for the last 20 years, and introducing bills that were
rejected ? To show that there was no ground for appre-
hending any danger to the fabric of the Church from the
abolition of church rates, 1,
—e might mention that in the
town of Boston, where the collection of these rates almost
lead to a rebellion of the inhabitants of that place, when
tho impost was discontinued large sums were sub-
scribed towards maintaining the Church in a state of effici-
ency. When no less than L 3,000,000 was subscribed in
Scotland towards that object, wherethe voluntary principle
prevailed, was it not an insult to the people of England to
suppose that they would not provide for the maintenance of
their churches ? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. WORTLEY said he considered that there was

only one remedy for the sore festering in the publics mind
' by these rates, that of excision. (Hear, hear.) Whether
these rates inflicted any real hardship on Dissenters or not,
it was certain that they were a great injury to the commu-
nity, and to the Church itself. (Hear, hear.) He had arrived, after considerable deliberation, at a determination
to vote for the second reading of this bill if a provision were
introduced for supporting the fabric of the church in
• poor parishes, where no local fund for such a purpose
existed. There was a Church before a Church-rate was
imposed, and therefore, in agreeing to their abolition they
were not affirmine• a principle adverse to a State establish-
went. (Hear, hear.) Having adverted to a case with
which he was familiar, to show the feeling of parishioners
where there was not adequate provision made, and from
which he inferred that there was no danger
in leaving the maintenance of churches to the operation of
voluntary contribution, he said, such was the munificence and .
zeal of the people at large that they could not pass through
several towns or villages without seeing the spires and
turrets of churches erected by the voluntary principle.
(Hear, hear.) He believed that if these rates were abolished
numbers of Dissenters would be readyto subscribe towards
the fabric of the State Church, if such were necessary,
and he mentioned the fact of the Duke of Norfolk having
given sites for three churches to be erected in Norwich.
Mr. S. HERBERT called attention to the alteration
that had taken place in reference to these rates, by which
this imposition was the act of the majority, and such being
the case he would pause before consenting to any
change in the existing law. A number of those wbo op•
posed these rates were not Dissenters, but persons who d•cl
not frequent any church whatever, and they endeavoured
to get rid of this impost on the same principle that
they opposed any other tax. Again, it had been
urged against the continuance of these rates that
they gave rise to irritation, excitement, and malice, but
in a free country, where discussion was permitted', the
same might be asserted with respect to other subjects on
which a difference of opinion existed. The Church of
England in the country was parochial and in the towns
congregational, and they. must admit the fact that it was no
longer the church of the majority. However, in dealing
with the subject they should act with justice to Churchmen
as well as Dissenters, and he approved of the resolution of
the hon. member fur Bath, submitted to the house the other
evening, which
.proposed to abolish church-rates in towns,
and leave them in country districts. He admitted that they
could not ultimately maintain this impost, but he cared
very little about such a result, as he had too much confi-
dence in his countrymen to believe that they would suffer
the fabric of the church to fall into decay. It was not just
towards Churchmen to abolish these rates without providing
some substitute, and on that ground he would vote against
the second reading of the bill.
Mr. PACKS opposed the measure, and cited different
statistics to show that the state of the fabric of the Church
in several places was such as showed the necessity of there
being a fund' to provide for their maintenance. He
deprecated the opposition to the bill discussed last Wednes-
day, which was a •proper measure, and met the legitimate
requirements of the age. He felt satisfied that the right
rev. prelates and other members of the House of Lords
would not commit so suicidal an act as to pass the present
bill.

Mr. GREENWOOD said he yielded to no other mem.•
ber of the house in a desire to promote the in-
terests of the Church of England, and for the sake of re-
storing harmony and peace he would vote for the second
reading of the Gill. He had ransacked his brain to discover
some good grounds for the maintenance of these rates, but
without success. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS agreed with certain hon. members
that the time had gone by for a compromise on this subject,
and was willing to take the opinion of the house on the
issue that had been raised by this bill. The agitation on
the subject of this impost was only an attempt to
abolish the State Church in this country, and would
have the effect .of putting into the pockets of
the landlords money which they did not require.
He appealed most earnestly to the house to resist the fur-
ther progress of the bill.
Sir J. TRELAWNY briefly replied.
The question was then put, and the house divided, when
the numbers were—

For the second reading ..
Against
Majority
The announcement was received with loud cheers.
The house adjourned shortly before four o'clock. The
house resumed at six o'clock, and there not being 40 mem-
bers present was immediately adjourned.

FROM THE GAZETTE OF LAST NIGHT.

BUCKINGHAM PALACE, MARCIE 14.
His Majesty the King of Portugal and the Algarves,
having conferred upon his Royal Highness the Prince of
Wales, and upon his Royal Ifighness Prince Alfred, the
Insignia of a Grand Cross of his Ancient, Most Noble, and

Royal Military Order of the Tower and Sword, the Queen
has been graciously pleased to grant to their Itoyal High-
nesses her permission to accept and wear the same.

WHITEHALL, MARCH 15.

The Queen has been pleased to direct letters patent to be
passed, under the Great Seal, constituting and appointing
the Right Honourable Edward Geoffrey, Earl of Derby;
the Right Honourable Benjamin Disraeli ; Thomas Edwa7rd
Taylor. Esq. ; Henry Whitmore, Esq. ; and Peter Black-
burn, Esq. ; to be Commissioners for executing the offices
of Treasurer of the Exchequer of Great Britain and Lord
High Treasurer of Ireland.
DOWNING-STREET, MARCH 14.
The Queen has been pleased to appoint Major-General
Robert Henry Wynward, C. 8., to be Lieutenant-Governor
of the Cape of Good Hope.
FOREIGN-OFFICE, MARCH 11.
The Queen has been pleased to approve of Mr. Johann
Philipp Schneider as Consul at Calcutta for the Free Han-
seatic City of Hamburgh.__ _ -