The Sun.
London, England, 1835-02-26 00:00:00

tions an grneridnient which goes the full length of his proposi.
tions, and which decidea the question fully and plainly.—(Hear.)
The hon. gentleman said he wighed it had been expressed a
little more distinctly; why was it not ?—(Cries of °lie*, hear.")
Might not the honourable gentleman suppose that, amongst thiik
dispukti reform the church in Ireland, there might be
some, and that no incinil/treble number, who might object to the same
lengths as himself ?—(Hear, hear.) fret the hon. gentleman has an op..
portunity of bringing forward—and he has given &lice of his intention
to do so—a motion on the question, and calls on the houie to' ei'm flan the
amendment which he admits to be ambiguous, that he may use it after'
wards by saying the House of Commons confirmed his view of the case
This is not (Waling fairly with so large and important a question.
But the speech itself promises to us measures that will be submitted for
our consideration, and upon which we shall they be able to decide
whether they are substantial or not, to correct the abuses of the Church
in irdatld and also in England. But the Amendment proposes
to declare our featiltieSs to correct those abuses in the Church
which disturb the peace of Society in Ire and. Now the right
honourable baronet, last night pointed out (and I confess I should be
glad to hear what is the ambiguity alleged) the abuses which,
in his opinion, disturbed the peace of that country. Does
the hon. gentleman refer to the means of paying the clergy or the
the existence of the Protestant Establishment ? I take it he refers to
the latter question, and not the tithe question, upon which the
amendment promises reform. But let me remind him that
it is the tythe system alone that can be said to disturb
the peace of Ireland. Other questions may excite irritation in Ireland.
—(Hear, hear, from the opposition.) Other questions may excite
a difference of opinion and discontent in Ireland.—(Repeated
cries of "hear" from the Opposition)—but it is the tithe question that
is to be remedied. The existence of the Protestant Church is a separate
question, and must be separately considered. I cannot give my
consent to any measure that may have a tendency to overthrow,
impair, or diminish that establishment.—(Cheers.) It is, then, upon
the grounds I have now stated, that I feel myself compelled
to withhold my assent from the amendment proposed by my noble
friend the member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, because
I do conceive that, in agreeing with it, I should appear
not only to support that from which I dissent--(hear, hear)—
not only because we should introduce a question which we have
not now the means to discuss in the absence of neces;;SrY
information, so as to enable us to form a correct judgment, but also
because I believe the tendency of that motion would
be to produce—under the whole of the present circumstances
of parties, effects which I consider would be disastrous to the coun-
try and fatal to the cause of steady and constitutional Reform.
I hold it to be of no slight importance on the present occasion that the
house should wait to see the measures intended to be proposed by his Ma-
jesty's Government. I hold it that, as an individual, lam bound in
honour and in justice to see what the nature of those projected
measures is to be. Standing, therefore, in the position which I do,
unconnected with the present administration, compelled, as I found
myself to be, when applied to to become a member of it, to
state that it would be inconsistent on my part to join them, constituted
as that government was—standing in that position, and having
no duty, consequently, to fulfil but that which every in.
dependent member of parliament is bound to discharge—anxious
as I am, for the promotion of Reform, and equally solicitous to pre-
vent destruction, I feel myself bound to give my assent to the
Address that has been moved in reply to the King's speech,
although shadowing out, as it does, sentiments that I should have
desired to have seen more boldly put forward, but certainly much that
meets with my entire approbation ; and at the same time opposing
the amendment, which, while it advances many things that are most
desirable, consists of much that is objectionable. (The noble lord, on
resuming his seat was loudly cheered by the ministerialists.)
Dr. LUSHINGTON trusted that the house would grant him their
iudulgence, while he made some few observations on one or two
points of great importance. When he heard the speech of the right
honourable baronet, he was delighted to have heard him express his
willingness to take the responsibility of the dismissal of the late
Administration—an Administration which possessed the confidence
of the country, the affairs of which they carried on to the satisfaction
of the people. The departure of Lord Grey from the Cabinet was an
event deeply to be lamented. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He
would be the last man that would give a factious opposition to
any Administration, still when he thought of the Government which
had caused the retirement from the councils of his country
of a nobleman so talented, so gifted, and whose inde-
fatigable industry and paternal love of his country was such
as to carry into effect measures so great and conducive to the public
good, he must say that such a Government was not entitled
to the confidence of the house or of the country.—(Hear.) His
noble friend said when he was retiring from office that he retired
for ever, but he trusted that would not be the case, and
hoped to God that he would return to the councils of
the country, and restore peace and tranquillity to the empire.
Notwithstanding the losses which the Administration had met with in
Earl Grey and others, his Majesty was advised to reconstruct that Ad.
ministration under the Premiership of Lord Melbourne. But what
cause was assigned for the dissolution of that Administration?

Why, that lord Althorp, in consequence of the death of his father, was
removed from the House of Commons to the Upper House. Was
not that event quite natural, and such as might be expected? Had,
then, that administration been formed on the condition of the life of Earl
Spencer ? Why should the administration have been broken up by the
removal of Lord Althorp from the Chancellorship of the Exchequer ? It
had been said by others, that the learned member for Dublin had the
power to make and unmake administrations. But was the letter of that
learned member to be made a pretext for breaking up administrations ?
He would pay a humble tribute to the talents of that hon. and learned
member, knowing the power and influence he had over his country.
men, and he (Dr. L.) begged leave to assure the right hon. baronet
that in his humble conviction, the honourable and learned member
himself, if he had contemplated the consequences, would have been
the last man to have written it. He (Dr. Lushington) was not satisfied
with any of the reasons assigned by the right honourable baronet
for the course he had pursued, and he did not think the right hon.
baronet could ever discard that responsibility which he had so very
honourably taken upon himself.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He
would now say a few words on a question almost set at rest
by his noble friend, who had spoken last; he meant the union of all the
power of the State in the hands of the Duke of Wellington.
His noble friend had protested against it, and had stated
that it could not be made a precedent hereafter. Why
would the house be content with any precedent which did
not form a part of srs records ? Was there any man of
talent, ability, or experience in that house who would not take upon
himself to propose a resolution, to the extent that such an example
should not hereafter form a precedent ? It had been attempted to justify
the conduct of the Duke of Wellington, by quoting an example
which it was stated had been set by the Earl of Shrews-
bury in former days. He denied that that was any prece-
dent, because a precedent meant this, that the same thing
should be done under similar circumstances. He denied
it was the same thing. He denied that the holding of the offices of
Lord Chamberlain, Lord Treasurer, and Lord Lieut. of Ireland in the
person of the Earl of Shrewsbury, was to be compared as a mat-
ter of fact, to the holding of the office of first Lord
of the Treasury. In the case of the Earl of Shrewsbury there were
other persons who were to share in the responsibility, but in the case
of the Duke of Wellington, there was no one but the Lord
Chancellor connected with him when he received the seals.—
Now, as to the injury that was likely to occur from that state of things, he
thought no:person, except a member of the present government, could
say that the greatest injury might not have resulted.—(Hear.) Suppose
that at the period in question news had been brought of the advance of
Don Carlos into Spain, or that the next post had brought information of
disturbances in India or Ireland, which party would have given attention
to the imperious demands that such disturbances would require to be
attended to? There would have been no person but the Duke of Welling-
ton who had taken the unprecedented and unconstitutional step of taking
all the offices in his hands.—(Hear, hear.) Was there any man
acquainted with the duties of the Secretary of State for the Colonial de-
partment who would tell him that with the office of First Lord of the
Treasury, and Secretary of State for the Home Department, he could
by possibility discharge the demands that might be made upon him
in the arduous discharge of the duties of Secretary of State for the Co-
lonies ? With respect to the grounds on which he felt called upon
to support the amendment of the noble lord, he could not take credit
to himself, as some members had done, that he was not a party man.
—(Cheers, : and cries of Hear.) He had ever been a party man
—he had been so upon principle alone—and he expected to be so till
the day of his death.—(Cheers.) He attached himself to that party
which, he believed, professed the purest principles--he followed them, as
far as he could, in matters of detail, and differed only in some essential
principles. The principles he had set out with he felt called upon to
maintain, believing them to be best calculated to lead to good government.
It was said that a union had been made against the Government without
just cause, and that those who opposed that Government had, without
giving them a fair trial, combined together to subvert them,
notwithstanding they had shown themselves anxious to promote reform,
and that such a course was totally without precedent. He was sure that
many hon. members recollected the union of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox
for the express purpose of turning out the Sidmouth administration,
and no person could deny that those two right hon. gentlemen,
except upon this subject, agreed upon no one point of politics.—
(Cries of" No, no.") He was surprised that any man could say no, and
he took upon himself again to assert, that with the exception of the
subject he had referred to, Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox agreed upon no other
point.—(Cheers.) Nay, they had been opposed to each other for years.
When persons of all opinions on the Reforming side found an adminis-
tration, whether Whig or Tory, not likely to carry on the government
tor the benefit of the people, or advantage to the country, it
was their duty, and it was quite justifiable for them to join, in
order to drive them from their places.—(Hear, hear.) What
he would ask, was the conduct of Lord Wharncliffe, one of the present
Ministers, on the death of Mr. Perceval ?—(Hear, hear.) Did he not
make a motion in that house, praying his Majesty to form
a strong and united ministry, and did he not use these very
words—" As to a fair ft.... 11, they were tried for years, and were found
wanting."—( Great cheering.) And who voted with him—persons
of all parties, Lord Wharncliffe at the head, and amongst others the
present Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and many others then on
the same side of the house. In speaking of the present administration,
he knew not how to draw any distinction between them and that of
1803.—(Cheers.) It was upon principle that he said he could not trust
the present Ministry. But it seems that the times have changed—
all have become Reformers, whatever they had been before. He
asked how, then, could he trust him who had for years had
the power, when Reforms were as necessary and desirable as now,
yet never took one step to remedy any one of the great abuses then
crying aloud for removal? He wished to know whether the abuses of
the church of England did not prevail to the same extent—whether
the abuses of the municipal corporations were not as glaring in the year
1820 as at present ? The right hon. baronet had endeavoured to induce
the house to pass a more favourable eye upon his ministry by reminding
them that they were supported by the house of lords; and that was an ar-
gument why they should receive at their hands whatever measures they
might bring forward. What was the meaning of that declaration!
(Tremendous cheering from the Opposition.) Tell it to the country—
(Cheers)—tell it to their constituents—(Continued applause)—tell
them that hereafter it is not the people of England, it is not
the House of Commons who are to stamp their approbation
on the selection made by the Crown in the exercise of its prerogative.
—(Great cheering from the Opposition, and cries of " Oh !" from the
Ministerial benches.) Tell them that the administration which can corn.
mind a majority in the House of Lords, which the House of Lords sane-
lions and supports, should be the government to rule the country, and
that, despite the censure and disapprobation of the people—(Cheers)—
despite the majority of the House of Commons—(Vehement cries of
" No, no," from the ministerial benches)—he repeated despite the
majority of the House of Commons, and a more frightful course than
that he believed no Government could adopt.—(Cheers and "Oh, oh!")
It was morally certain that the present Administration did not possess
the confidence of the great majority of the electors of the people of Eng-
land.— (Cheering, followed by cries of" No.") It had not even the con-
fidence of his noble friend opposite, who deprecated the union that existed
on his (Dr. L. 's) side of the house; but it had the confidence of those
who were high Tories, and those alone—(Great cheering.) The pre-
sent contest was one of a most frightful nature, and was conducted from
the commencement with a degree of secresy that boded nothing good.
He (Dr. L.) had no conception of the dissolution that had taken
place until the event itself had occurred—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He spoke of those he knew, of the great city of London, and of the
wealth of that city.—(Hear, from Mr. A. Baring.) Perhaps the right
honourable gentleman might think that he himself had got all
the wealth of the City.—(Great laughter.) But he could speak of
his own district, which was assessed at one million per annum, and
had a poptilation of 370,000 souls, and if the hon. gentlemen on the
other side wished for a further demonstration, let them look at
Finsbury, and see what had been done there. He would ask, was there
ever an instance of a dissolution in the time of an existing admini.
titration that produced so little Wendt to that administration I,—(Cheers.)