The Sun.
London, England, 1866-06-05 00:00:00

THE REFORM BILL.

Lord ELCHO said he wished to ask the Chancellor of
the Exchequer whether in the event of the amendment of
the hon. and gallant member for Wells being rejected it
was the intention of the Government to proceed and to
endeavour with their whole power—(hear, hear, and loud
cheers from the Opposition)—to carry the bill through the
house during the present session?
Mr. HADFIELD said he should like to know whether
the Government had been in communication with the hon.
and gallant member for Wells.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had not been in communication with the hon. gentleman
referred to. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the question
of the noble lord he believed it to have reference to the
rumours in circulation, which were to the effect that the
Government, in the event of the amendment of the hon.
and gallant member for Wells being rejected, would not
proceed further with the united bills during the
present session. In answer to that ho had to say
that the Government had never said or done any-
thing which could warrant such a rumour. (Hear, hoar.)
He could in addition say that the Government had formed
no such intention as the rumour attributed to them.
(Cheers from the hlinisterialists.)
Sir H. CAIRNS said he wished to ask the right hon.
gentleman whether the Government adhered to the in-
tention which had been expressed, viz., of not advising
her Majesty to prorogue Parliament until the bill had
either been finally rejected or passed.

The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER said, con-
sidering the nature of the issue of the debate, as far as it
regarded the fate of the Government and the bill, he did
not think he ought to proceed further in answering the
question of the right hon. gentleman opposite. (Cheers
from the Ministerial side of the house.)
Sir T. BATESON said he wished to put a question to
the hon. and gallant member for Wells, and it was to
the following effect, whether ho bad had any communica-
tion, either directly or indirectly, with the Government,
that in the event of the Government getting a
majority steps would be taken to make things more com-
fortable on that side of the house. (Cheers and laughter.)
Captain HAYTER replied that he had had no such
communication.
Mr. HORSMAN said he wished to ask the right hon.
gentleman a question with reference to the answer ho
had
given to him on a former occasion, who had certainmisgivings with respect to the sincerity of the intentions
of the Government on the bill going into committee On

that occasion the right honourable gentleman (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) informed his honourable
friend that as long as the bill stood they (the Government)
stood ; r.nd when the bill fell they would fqll. Ho wished
to know distinctly whether the Government intended to
go into committee adhering to that determination. (Hear,
hear.)

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sail that if
the Government altered or modified certain intentions it
was their duty to come down ands make known the
change to the house. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.)
If the Government, therefore, hail changed 01.
modified any declaration they had made, he should, on
the part of the Government, have at once openly informed
the house of the matter. (Hear, hear.) The Government
would not have waited until a fact was extracted
from them by hostile questions to have made the country
acquainted with the fact. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.)
The adjourned debate on the amendment of the hon.
member for Wells to the Reform Bill was then resumed by
Lord J. MANNERS who criticised the bill in detail,
and:predicted failure ; and, further, the noble lord said
he looked upon the bill not as a measure of reform, but a
revolution of the existing election system. He thought
the attempt of the Government to pass the bill, accom-
panied by that for a redistribution of seats, this
session an impossibility, the more so as they had
al ready reached. the month of Juue, and the bill had
not yet reached committee.
Earl GROSVENOR said he should give his vote on this
question in favour of the Government. Referring to the
resolution he had moved on the Franchise Bill, he said that
the object which he had then in view, whatever may have
been the object of others, was attained by the fusion of the
Franchise and Redistribution Bills ; and the Government
was now responsible for their future conduct. He did not
think the Franchise Bill the best possible bill, while the
Redistribution Bill was crude, undigested, and anomalous;
and he did not understand why the Government had not
followed the precedents of the bills of 1859 and 1860 in
regard to the re-arrangement of seats. Still he felt bound,
if the amendment of Captain Ilayter 'was pressed to a
division, to vote against it ; though he thought that it
would be advisable that the amendment should not be
pressed. If he voted for the amendment he might contri-
bute to the defeat of the Government, against which he
had no hostility, but in whose policy he had a general
confidence, and of a bill which he should feel at liberty
to attempt to amend in committee. He was of opinion
that by remoulding these measures might perhaps be
shaped into a settlement of the question of reform ; but
as he also believed that tho opiutou of rho country con-
curred with his own, that it was impossible that these bills
could pass this session, he appealed to the Government to
postpone their further consideration till next year.
Mr. B. OSBORNE was not sorry that the noble lord the
member for Chester had first caught the Speaker's eye, be-
cause it was always au interesting spectacle to observe the
reconciliation of friends. (A laugh.) the quarrels of lovers
it was said was the renewal of love ; and although he (Mr.
Osborne) condoled with the inhabitants of that cave which
might now be said to have shrunk to the dimensions of a
grotto—(laughter) -and although he thought that the
speech of the noble lord had but proved his adroitness in
looking one way and rowing another, yet it was an agree-
able spectacle to see a man of his ability and character re-
turning to the zanks of that party of which he formed so
distinguished an ornament. (Cheers.) In considering the
question before the house he (Mr. Osborne) was more than
ever convinced that the present Parliament was about to
treat Reform very much in the same manner that it had
been treated by other Parliaments in previous sessions.
There appeared to be no difference of opinion as to the ne-
cessity of an extension of the franchise and a redistribu-
tion of scats ; but whenever a bill to effect these objects
was brought iu by the right hon. gentleman the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer hon. gentlemen attacked it not only
with the minutest criticism, but with the most hostile con-
demnaticn ; and yet not a single member of the house, not
even the right hon. gentleman the member for Caine, sub-
mitted a direct negative in opposition to the measure. (Hear,
hear, and cheers.) That was a most peculiar condition for
the question of Reform to have got into. There was no
quarrel as to the necessity of something being done—the
only dispute was as to who was to construct the bill. (Hear.)
Reform, iu fact, was very much in the situation of Cin-
derella. In previous sessions who so neglected—who so
despised ? Suddenly she put on the guise of an heiress
and the only quarrel between this party and that was, as to
who should measure her for the glass slipper. (Laughter.)
But what was likely to occur ? Why, with those protracted
discussions and various amendments, she seemed likely to
vanish in the midnight of August, and go back to the dusty
retirement and dirty attics of Downing-street. (Renewed
laughter.) That would evidently be the fate of Reform.
And whose fault was it? Was it the fault of her Majes-
ty's Government ? He certainly was not a supporter of
the Ministry, but he would be wanting in that candour
which should be the distinguishing characteristic of every
public • man if ho did not on this occasion say that her Ma-
jesty's Ministers were not to blame. (Cheers.) What was
the present position of affairs ? The position of what was
called the great Liberal party was excessively puzzling, and
the position of the Government excessively critical. What
had been the occaaion of all that ? He had always under-
stood that the recent general elections had returned to the
new Parliament a majority of upwards of 70 Liberals to
support the Ministry. All of them pledged to retrench-
ment, and most of them panting for reform. (Laughter.)
What had become of this great majority ? (Hear, hear,
from the Opposition.) He could not help thinking that
originally there must have been some error on the part of
the returning officers. He did not believe that such a ma-
jority ever existed. He thought, moreover, that the Govern-.
ment had been guilty of a grave mistake in not having felt
the pulse of the house, at least for one session, before so
rashly committing themselves to a Reform Bill ; before so
heedlessly taking it for granted that these 70 panting Libe-
rals were going to give them their support. (Laughter and
cheers.) The Chancellor of the Exehequer might now pa-
raphrase the old fable. He could truly say, "I returned to
the home of my birth, and I said,. The friends of reform,
where are they, and echo answered, Where ? " (Renewed
laughter.) How had this occurred ? Had it been brought
about by the enemies of reform ? No, it had not been
occasioned by the malice of opponents, but by the extra-
ordinary zeal of the supporters of the Government.
(Hear, hear.) It had been brought about by one in particu-
lar,
" mine own familiar friend"—(laughter)—and not a
familiar friend only, but almost one of the family, viz., the
right hon. the member for Kilmarnock. That gentleman
came down to the house and urged the Ministry to unite
their bills in a comprehensive, incomprehensible amalga-
mation. (Renewed laughter.) In an evil moment the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer yielded to the proposal, and the
effect would probably be that the Franchise Bill would be
withdrawn as soon as the weather got hot, and the only
redistribution of seats they were likely to see was a new
grouping of the officials on the Treasury Bench. (A laugh.)
Several hon. gentlemen had asked what was the principle
of the Government measure ? The principle, in his opinion,
was very plain. It was an extension of the suffrage in cities
and boroughs. This principle was also recognised in the
bill of the right hon. member for Buckinghamshire, and he
could not help thinking that the house commi4ile3d an enor-
mous mistake in giving that measure an absurd party oppo-
sition, and thus losing the opportunity of satisfactorily
settling the whole question. (Cheers from the Opposition.)
His (Mr. Osborne's) advice was that they should go into
committee on this bill; but whatever they did they should
not for a single hour delay the reduction of the franchise.
They all professed a wonderful sympathy for what was
called the superior class of the artisans; but what had been
done towards admitting these men to the franchise? It
was notorious that there were fewer of the artisan class in
the enjoyment of votes than there were in 1832. On the
average the £lO house in 1832 was now a £l4 house, and
the tendency had been to decrease the political power of
the working classes, because, owing to the advance of pros-
perity in the country, they did not now live in £lO houses.
The Lord Advocate had produced a sensation by saying
that the House of Commons was the embodiment of demo-
cracy. So far from this being the case, there were no less
than 217 members who were either directly or indi-
rectly connected with the aristocracy or members of
it. Talk of trades unions ! Was not that house
a great aristocratical trades union ? (Laughter.) It
was said this might be so, but they passed good measures,
and permitted no practical abuses to remain unremedied.
No practical abuses, with Ireland in the state it was, and
with such an enormous expenditure as the country was
saddled with ! (Cheers.) He held that the very bast thing
that could happen to the country would be to diminish the
fiunkeyism which was creeping upon that house by a
healthy admixture of the working classes. (Hear.) He had
listened with great pleasure to the speech of the right hon.
member for Calne ; but he could not agree with its senti-
ments. His right hon. friend would substitute in lien of the
three estates a paternal tyranny, and instead of a fresh,
free, and healthy democracy, would give them a nation
o of
cowering pupils, receiving spoon diet at the handes fan
would
intellectual despot. (Loud laughter and cheers u
part
only say a few words with regard to the distribution
Icontrived to steer
oe
of
rrthe c
correct
scheme.
anomalies, Suchto rat)
m billo remove
e inequalities, should hay. threeaud t objects—to
bdj euc tas
with deficiencies. The Government b);
It was totally im
clear of all these. (Opposition eters.
possible to bring in a bill by which
o
nd he should be sorry to
put the torch to their own fulrer'at
boroughs had great advantag,hey
I were necessary excres-
cences iyl eo.o Ile could
lobe
Oguegt men
s m at
see them done away
referencean dho utterly
eoi
rb jpeacstte
character
dto
nt men whom they had sent to
r
il..go(Linagugtho
talrit.i)k
Rite thoada
fcdoei
disfranchisement
purity,co fislioe
or
tceoon constitution, sht ie
withouteu'm.tvii oit,nhne,
Parliament, Take Liskoard, a borough always famous
widow of very
very little to say in favour of the Government system of
eeystiovneraeblbeychthaii•sacbtiel
; for he believed that even where there was no
for its purity ;
questionable
grouping,
contest the elections for the Scotch burghs were most ex-
pensive. An hon. member who had five boroughs in the
group he represented told him that, even when he had
no contest, it cost him £1,600. Even if that system
answered in Scotland, ho felt sure that it would not
do so in England. They had been told by the
honourable member for Caine that Earl Russell
had succeeded to the premiership by seniority.
That was not so ; he had succeeded to the post in virtue of
his eminent ervices iu promoting all Liberal measures.