The Sun.
London, England, 1803-12-20 00:00:00

t

p

J

1

HOUSE OF COMAIONS.

)JO :),NY, DEC. 19.

or what fell from the Noble StctlTAßr of STATE,
and adverted w the 'necestity which existed for the
explanatory Bill dm} under consideration.
Earl FIIzwILLIMI spoke in father ex" plana.

The LORD CHANCELLOR argued that nothing
which fell fr,,tri the Noble Earl militted against
the passing of the Bill then before the House—The
greater part of what his Lordship had advanced,
went to points Which had no connection whatever
is ith.the Bill, which was of art explanatory and a
very liinitc,i nature. He way free to confess his
cl;,approbotihn, in certain paints• of view, of
p-cceedin„as of this kind : he liked not Expla.
n dory Ad: after Explanatory At, and expnsi.
ton :fter exposition. These considerations- should
be left, as far
,as possible, to the construdion
and explanation of those in whose province it was
regularly to explain thein ; he'alluded Principally, to
His Majesty's Law' Officers. With respet to the
measure regularly under consideration, the Noble
and Learned' Lord coincided with, and enforced
what 'had fallen from the;Noble SECRETARY' of
SNATE.

Earl FITZWILLI Afil, sin additional explana.
obscrvethat his objea 4as not to resist the
prdgress of the Bill ; as far as it went,' he rather
approved of it; butlieCorigidered it as by no means
stifficienily.efliCacious'orextensive,' and in-that view
Ite thought it tii4ceptibk of amendment. -•
Ths .LORD CHANCELLOR then put theques-
' tinn, and after a few words :between ihim and the
respeCting the point- of Order on. that
proceeding; the Bill was read .» third time and pass.
ed ;..and a- Message immediately sent to the-Coin-
, mons acquainting- them, that' their Lordships had
agreed to the 'Bill, with certain. Amendments.
Their. Lordships -then after disposing of some
routine business adjourned during pleasure.
After a short., interval Mr. SARGENT, accompa.
nird by several Members, returned the Volunteer
Corps Regulation Bill front the Commons, tvlid had
,agreed so their .Lordships' amendments..
This beingulotified to the House, an adjournment
till to,lnorrow immediately:took place. .

A Peison from the Inlivaor Generalof the Army
ni Reserve, brought ol) tlw.Generai Return of the
'Number of Men raised tor tlie Royal Army of Re.
serve op to December. •
.Ordeted to be
A Person iv to he African Company presented
some Accra-mu; from that Company.--Ordered to lie
oa the

Mr. 1)P. ZIT ; resented a Petition From the Prisoners
cc.ntineti for Debt in lianc'aster-Gaul,. Fraying for
iriief.

. ,e(ii0110 'STANLEY ail& Mr. TIERNEY. present.
ea similar Pctitioili (*COMM the Prikmers.2cdrtfined Er
Debt iit•Chester C;4461, anti •
,Oftleved to' lie on the Table;

.A.oeio) Writ was. 'Ordered fnr the 'Boton7h of
Clrinarthen in the room of J. G: PHIrLi.II3; 'Esq.
- • r
A Pdr;on Item the Excise brought up an Account
4.1 die quantity of Table''Beer Beer which
duty from J'anitary tn:l:6ll6Di 1803.
!the -Report of The Committee of Supply respe6t.
Siirricgral,,-eil for ,the eniourageinent' of the
.-Nlaotita(tUrel in Irelanir; brougift up
and agreed to.

• • --trz-Isti MYTHS.- . 1 '
Me. CO Rl' he rose for the purpose of
a N,oice relative to the Ways and Means Of
~!holit:. it was not usual to go into the Waysand
i\lea'ais of Ireland previous to.tlieChristrnas recess,
he 'therefore now wily wislaal to give Notice of his
inteitiontipon that fadtieel, and the rather because
the military dot it,!, 4:4 man of the Irish Members
remitted it impo3:Mde for themy at present .tu attend
their dary in Parliament. The Notice he, now gave
reliittl to the Conaolidation of- the subsisting
p,,ri'Drities,. and some of the Inland Duties
'land, 'A Schedule of those Duties had been laid be-
ro:qtament List Session, and. wiia ;igt*Ced to, but
corn.iderations, particalarly a wish to give
the rtiir6t possible time to ',Vlereliatas for the itives..,
rigtir ion of subject, 'induced the postponetnent,of
further preeeegogs upan it. A similar Schedule
c,‘,o7eft.lbe 1 ttlr tiefore ?Orftirnent titer the. Recess.
Help;ped The Houle would excuse him for being
r,p2cial in his Notice, because he Was
,anxious
rii ti It tillon)(1 he well urtdcrstopd initel9nd, para..
cularly by the Merchaors.. The biltie,s treferred to.
ere ptinCipallY upon Ft'ireign Articleg,either im-
por:red re4tly into I reland,or through Oreat Britain,
bilt ;la ct,Or'etpienee.orthe 3tipulations in. the An of
unjon; itpoli any articles the. prptltice.of 'Great
I;rit an,. `l' he Duties now payable on FOqign Articles
,
were prtnelpinty those Orld,:!!he'4o_tkqep. 1,1. cap..
4, the 4151' Gen..,111. c.v. 43.. which ,Ilack‘SiP4t..tKen;
cor.tinurd, and the 421 Geo. lll..eap. 117. Put the
coriAtid.t;ioo wo cot to be trade. stri4ly
,ansi, pre,
cieely upon the duties as they now, stood, because
in all whine there were fraetions of a penny,
the fraEtion would be rejeflecl, antithe.duty brought
ro the next integ,,r either above or below, In the.
forhier ease the revenue would be increased a little,
and in the latter case it wonld be ditninished a Huh. .
In s'Orrie easel certain Dudes impose4.hy 42 Geo.
ILI. cap., 117., or 31 per cent.. on imports, and
or let cent, on exporla, would be extended by
this schedule to Tast lndia goods. 'f he Drawbacks
now allowed on the export, of foreign arricles,So
tnreigncountries were those under Ole Alts of the„,
40/1) anti-41st C,4eo, IU. the, Duties under the 42d
GeO:111-. cap. tr 7. not now drawn back, were by
the Schedule ag voted, drawn back. He had but one
more remark to trouble the House
,with—by, the
40.1 h Get), 111. passed in the last Session
...of the
Irish Porli:onent, the DutieS were. laid. upon muss
arm kits ,valorem, and-the additional Duty impost..
et'. 'ty the ~ad Geo. HI. cap. 4.17., waa.a rated.
Duty, or the reverse, which of ,course caused con.:
siderabie trouble to the Merchants,, for whose ac.
coniiitodation,„.and in' order to facilitate it
would now be proprised that the Duties under these,
flits ,horrid he ,retlueed to one and the same .deno,
tninat ion, viz,' eider p rated Duty or an nil 1:•efo.
1,71 Z I.)ory, according to the nature of the ar.ticle.
Tht St iiledole wln ch he `should Propose after the.l,
I?xcus:t would altnottt in every instary:e lie the same

as that of last Session, yet he wisltecl to he distinEtly
understood, that it might vary from it, because
where alterations were auggestd, either by tl*,!
Merchants themselves or by others, the good seek-.
of which was apparent, they would undoubtedly-lie
attended to. Jo the course of the last Session of
Parliament he had given notice that he should pre.;
pare, for the consideration of Parliament, a measure
in the shape of a Property Tax for Ireland—lse did.
not mean at present to make any observation upon'
that subjea, except to say that he should endeavour
to prepare a measure of that sort, and to submit it
to Parliament soon after the Recess. He had only
further to add, that he should propose that the Da-
ties.should be permanent, in order to meet the per.
manent charges of Ireland,, and not annual as they
had heretofore been.
A message from the Lords informed the House
their Lordships had agreed to the Volunteer Ex-
emption Amendment Bill, with several amendments,
to which they desired the concurrence of the House.'
Mr. Secretary YORK II moved that the amend.
ments be now read.
The first amendment was read.
Mr. Secretary YORKE said, that on the reading
of the Bill and the amendment, it would strike any
one that this amendment was necessary, for the Bill
as it went from 'the House up to the other House of
Parliament, exempted persons accepted and enrolled
as Volunteers from serving in the Militia, but had
no provision on being ballutted to serve in the Mi-
litia before they became Volunteers, and this amend.
ment was therefore necessary, in order that persons
,who had been ballotted for the Militia should be
obliged to do so if they should happen to quit their
Volunteer Corps; that they, should claim no ex.
emption-on account of having been Volunteers, 'but
that such exemptions should continue only while
they remained Volunteers, for which reason he
trusted the House would. have no sohjeaion to the
amendment,
The E AKE R observed upon the point of order,
-that the usual course was to read all the amendments
over once before any discussion took place upon
them, and that the season for observation was, re.
gularly speaking, on the culeition of second read.
rocs ur of agreeing to the, .amendments. This was
the more necessary to be amerced, because by it
the House could see the bearing of the amendments
iltogether, before it entertained any discussion upon
them.

The amendments were then read, they were all
ver6,ll except the first, of which the substance is
already stated.
On the question for the second reading,
Air. W/NDHAiII took an objenion to the House
at ',resent in this !natter. He said it was usual to
adjourn the consideration of all amendments made
by the Lords in any Bill sent to them from that
House, in order to give the Members time to on.
derstand it. He did nut profess to understand thil
amendment, thus brought down and read upon the
sadden. He saw no harm in postponing the con.
sideration of It for 2+ hours. He said, that an
idea had gone abroad,' whether true or not he did
not pretend to say, that the amendments made by
the LOrds in this Bill were such as the House had
rruct run ail to receive and acquiesce in.
Ale dared to say that was not iskeiy so tie itic Ouse
upon such an occasion as this, but that was a point,
however well assured, it was impossible ,for, the
House to know ; for which reason he thought this
subjfn ',ugh to stand over until to-morrow : this
he pressed the more particularly, as many Gentle.
men, had wine away under an idea that this Bill
would' not have been brought from the House of
Lords
,to-night ; and that if these amendments were
now agreed to, these Gentlemen would be depriVed
of the opportunity' of delivering their sentiments
upon
.them.
-•

Mr. Secretary YORKE said, that if he thought
there was any amendment which required much con.
sideration, he should wish it to he deferred to give
every.Gentlemadsv ho wished it an opportunity of
delivering his sentiments upon it, but there really
was nothing of that kind. It certainly wag not
difficult to understand the first amendnient, as be
had already stated it, ant as to all the' rest they
were merely, verbal. With regard to the idea
of the amendmenls being material, and of its hay.
ing 40 gone forth to tlic ,Publie, that was one of
the inconveniences which 'resulted from permitting,
the publication of the 'proceedings of Parliament ;
under which some persons had the audacity, in dire.
defiance of the standing orders of the How, not
only to mirepresent the proceedings of the two,
Houses of Parliam..nt, but sometimes :41134 to
invent outlet which created great confusion in the.
PUblic mind. A clause was proposed by,a Noble
Lord in the other i louse of Parliament; by way of
amendment to the Bill, which amendment was now
before the fiouie' ,and which went only to make up
far an oversight of the I louse of Commons, by which
it was provided that it' my Volunteer should quit
his CorpsOac shOuld h,g,gt.r be allowed to avail
himself of the.exemptions to, which Volunteers were.
entitled.;. that. was 411—a thing too /lain for dii.
eussiph.

Mr.'CALCßAAM:proiessed to hare no wish to
,procrastinate this business,•but he could not help
thinking it was,quite,-neceSsary that this stneriti,
mint bliould be inquired into, which could not be
'done unless it .was postponed, until to-morrow at
least. He was sariefied that a much more respeelable
attendanCe, in' point of numbers, would have taken
place in the• House it it had been thought that these
4mendmentswete to have been proposed to be agreedg
to to-night. lie knew of no reason why the House
might not take this matter into consideration to.

morrow. I:1,p yits,,ptlig sure none had been alicsind,
The C11.4N044401: of the EXC I
said, that those.Gentiernen who hmi heeird the

Amendment and .1 trended to the Bill, who thought
that it'only went to supply the deka of, that Bill as
it, went firm that I louse, would agree to the Amend.
rnent. B'ut if Jny Gentleman in the House would'
have the goodru.,c to attend to the Amendment while
it., was -read from the Chair, and then would declare,
as,a Metuber of that Hou'se, that he did not under.

stand the Antendmenr perfedly, not only w)uld it
be matter of justice ,to allow further titne to c4osider
it, and therefore he should not oppoge it, but he
should move for further tilne for, that Ott-
pobe,

Lord FOL.K.:ESToNE-obserrsd, that scveri;l4,gn.

tlemen who he believed intended to he present at
the discussion of these Amendments, bath gone away
;ttider an impression that these Amendments were
11OS' JO be ptoposed to be agreed to until en-morrow.
Hie Lordship said, he understood it to be the gene-
ral praftice of that House not to take Amendments
made by the Lords into consideration until tle next
day after they were brought down.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de_
sired the SPEAKER to react, first the Bill as it went
up to the House of Lords, anal then the Amend.'
ments made by their Lordships.
Which beingtigne,
The SPEAKER took leave to observe, that al-
' though Sometimes Amendtn?nts madeby the Lords
were taken into consideration on a subsequent day,
yet it was extremely frequent for the House to agree
to Amendments made by the Lords on the same
day they were brought clown. One of the Amend.
ments had been already explained :—as to the rest,
they were merely verbal. It Wal for the House to
say whether it would consider them now, or defer
them to a future day.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that the aubstantial Amqndineit now before
the I-louse was only to carry into ellen the Manifest
intention of 'the House, but which intention had
been imperially expressed. Here he went over the
Clause, again, and observed, that the Bill as it ori-
ginally stood, only afFelled Volunteers who should be
ballotted, i&c. but did not provide 'for the cases of
'those who might have been ballotted and exempted
on account of being Volunteers, but, who ought to
have such Exemptions longer than they should serve
as Volunteers.

Mr. WiNDIL4II.I said, that the' iniportance of
the subjea was unquestionable. The propriety of
'adjourning the discussion of it was to him obvious.
He professed himself incapable of understanding this
•Amendment,ort the sudden, at least of being sure he
Understood it, Gentle Men had gone away under the
idea that it was not to be discussed to-night, and
'he-thought it was little more than matter of course to,
defer it until to-morrow. He was really ignorant
of the possible. effed of certain words being intrq.
duced into a Bill like this, and his ignorance
strengthened his argument in this case, for it was
impossible without tin to remove it. There was
no necessity of thus gding backwards and forwards
in a hurry with Bills; and therefOre on these grounds,
with every reason for the Adjournment, and none
against it, he should think the House would not
proceed on this matter now.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that by the words Substantial Amendment, he
did not mean that which the Right Hon. Gentleman
who spoke last, might suppose—he meant it only
by 'Way of distinaiOn front those Amendments which
were merely- verbal.
Mr. CILES said, he considered the Bill as now
amended by the Lords, to be precisely what the
House intended it to be when they passed it, but
froth' an oversight had omitted to express, with pre.;
vision, for which reason he supported the Amend.
Meth., and saw no reason for delaying the considera.
Lion, of it.

. .
Mr. C ALCR AFT adhered to his former opinion
upon this subject, on account of Gentlemen Living
left the House under an idea that the subject was
not to he discussed to-night. As to the Amend.
tent being only what the Moose intended to have
expressed, he did not think it much to the credit of
the House, to have sent into the other House a Bill
which did not express what was meant by its au.
thors—an additional reason for not being too hasty
a second time. lie alledged that the House would
have done snore wisely by printing the Bill, and
giving more time for its discussion than it had
done, The Lords had ordered it to be printed, and
wisely so, for such measures should have as ample a
discussion as possible. In ore word, unless some
better reason than any he had yet heard, was given-
for agreeing to these Amendments to-night, he,
should think it his duty to object to that course.
Mr. WINOHAM moved, That this Hcouse do now
adjourn.

The Gallery Wad then cleared, but the House
not divide.

The Amendments made by the Lords were then
agreed to, and:the House adjourned at a quarter be.;
lore six, till tO.lnOrrow. 4 •

To CORRESPONDENTS.

rkoVgh aye corlcur in m.rny of the tritinwrlS extressed 4 an OLb
Orrzcar. of the Ltrix lo the Rigs, Hon. WttLIAN PITT,
there a nraoffir pot ti his Leiter tyleich .1.. t diem Mfr itrong.for
pi4llAulon. r