The Sun.
London, England, 1835-12-03 00:00:00

UNIVERSITY OF LONDON•

•
Yesterday a Special General Meeting of the Proprietors
cf this University was held- in one of the halls of the insti-
tution, in consequence of the following requisition to the
Council of the University :
" To the Council of the University of London, their Secre-
tary, or Principal Clerk, as the case may be.
" My LORDS ANA GENTLEMEN—We the undersigned pro-
prietors of the University of London, hereby request that you
will forthwith cause to be convened a Special General Meet-
ing. of the proprietors, to consider the question of the grant
and tenor of a charter to the said University, with reference
to the address of the House of Commons of the 26th of March
last ; his Majesty's most gracious answer thereto ; and the in-
timation since given by his Ministers of their intention in re-
spect thereto, and thereupon to receive the instruction of such
General Meeting on the subject.
" London, Oct. 29, 1835.
( Signed) Brougham John Wilks, M. P.
T. W. Beaumont, M. P. J. Scholefield, M.P.
W. Tooke, M.P. Thos. Wilde, M.P. •
S. Lushington, M. P. J. Temple Leader, M.P.
Chas. A, Tulk, M.P. W. M. Thiselton
Richard Potter, M.P. Thos. Thornely,. M.P.
Daniel Gaskell, M.P. Jas. Burchell
Edward Busk . W. Bromley
A. H. Lynch, M.P. Wm. Bromley
Charles Lemon Arthur W. Tooke
Robert Winter R. Winter"
Shortly after one o'clock Lord Brougham took the chair,
at which time about -400 proprietors of the University were

present.
The NOBLE CEIAIRMAN stated that, in consequence ce
the very judicious course taken, and distributing amongst
the proprietors of the University during the last week the
papers basins, reference to the subject-matter of the meet-
Mg, it would be unnecessary for him to detain them. The i e
was one observation, however, be wished to make, which
had impressed itself on some of thoSe who had signed the
requisition, namely, that if proper time was not given to the
proprietors to make up their minds, that their answer
might be decided in the negative to the proposition of the
Government. He knew that in the first instance this
was the opinion of three or four proprietors, and he was
also undoubtedly of the same opinion. He, however, had
seen reason to abandon this opinion, and be believed that
this was also the case with Most of those who bad read the
admirable address of the Senatus on the subject of the pro-
posed charter.—(Hear, bear.) Suppose they should rely
upon three or four objections as of a most serious nature,
what course ought they to adopt? The proprietors, how-
ever, possessed a great advantage at present in coming to a
determination on the question. The Professors of the
University, who were more deeply interested than the
proprietors, or any other persons, in the prosperity of
the University—for they must not only feel anxious for
the welfare of their respective classes, but they had also
a deep pecuniary interest at stake in the success of the
University—had met together, and after the fullest deli-
beration and discussion respecting the proposed charter,
and having, as he had before said, the interests of the Uni-
versity so much at heart, and having so deep an interest in
arriving at a proper result on the subject—they had
come to an unanimous conclusion, and he would almost
say in an unprecedented manner, in favour of the plan
of the Government.—(Hear, bear.) He was sure that
the meeting would ,agree with him, that this was a very
powerful reason to induce the proprietors of the Univer-
sity to accept and adopt the proffered charter.—( Hear,
hear.) He admitted, however, that there were some ob-
jections to parts of the plan ; but the question was, were
these of sufficient moment to induce the meeting to reject
the plan ? He certainly thought not ; but still it would be
the duty of the Council to endeavour to have these objec-
tionable points changed. Perhaps, however, the details
should not be entered upon at the present meeting ; and, to
say the least of it, it would be an unprofitable course of
proceeding. He would, however, just advert to one or two
points which might be objected to. He thought that the
proposition for limiting the Board to form the Senate of
the new University was open to some objections. With
respect also to the name—he admitted that it might be
considered objectionable that the new body should bear
the name they had held from their foundation, and,
sinking the name of University, become only a Col-
lege. He thought, however, if they obtained in sub-
stance all they desired in other respects, that they
might be content to part with their name. There was
one other points however, which he considered ob-
jectionable, and to which he should not so readily feel
disposed to agree. He perceived that the degrees pro-
posed to be granted by the University were not to be pre-
cisely the same as those now given by the old Universities.
—(Hear, hear.) In page 3of the pamphlet to which be
had before adverted, he found the initials of the degrees at
the new University differed from those conferred at the old
Universities. It might appear a trifling,. matter at first
sight, but he was satisfied that it was not so. and he did
not see why they should have different degrees from the
old Universities. It was an old observation, that under
some circumstances " words became things," and in this
case it might be truly said that words were things.—
(Hear, hear.) He thought that if a change was not made
in this respect, an invidious and improper distinction. would
be created between the degrees conferred by the old and
new Universities.—(Hear.) He felt considerable regret
that a distinction of this kind should be introduced into the
plan ; but be confessed that he would rather have it with
this objection, than reject it merely on the ground that
such a distinction was made. Some gentlemen might feel
disappointed that that University had not been empowered
to grant degrees ; but he thought all the arguments on this
point had been carefully and jinliciously treated in the paper
of the Senatus. He had thought that they should have the
power of granting degrees in the Faculties of arts and law ;
but he did not think that the degrees would have less
value when conferred by the new College. There was one
other point to which he wished to allude, and which cer-
tainly had operated on the minds of the Council of the Uni-
versity. The Council were fully aware That they were only
trustees for the Proprietors ; but in the various discussions
which had taken place respecting the grant of the charter,
they had wished to act in such a manner as to be on a
friendly footing with the Government. They trusted that
any thing calculated to put a stop to this would be avoided
at the present meeting, and that nothing would be said or
done which could occasion any embarrassment as regarded
the Government, who had acted throughout conscien-
tiously, and in a manner which they believed was best calcu-
lated to promote the welfare of the public at large.—(Loud
cheers.) They were called together to give their sentiments
for the governance and guidance of the Council in this
matter. He understood that a resolution would be pro-
posed to them, embodying much of what he had said, re-
commending the Council to agree to the plan proposed by
the Government. This resolution would not he binding,
but only be an instruction as to the mode in which the
Council should proceed ; and the Council would be most
glad to conform, as it had always done, to the opinions of
the proprietors at large.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. Was. TOOKE, M. P., felt disappointed at that Insti-
tution not standing on an independent footing ; but still
placing reliance, as lie did, on the judgment of the Council
and Professors, lie was induced to abandon his former
nion, and to give his assent to the plan proposed by the
Government.—( Hear, hear.) Satisfied also, as he was,
that the Government was formed of men of liberal opi-
nions, and that they were friendly to the cause of general
education, be felt disposed to give them credit for having
acted with a zealous desire to attain the object that insti-
tution had in view, he should submit to the course they
had proposed.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded with proposing a resolution to the effect, " That '
al-
though the meetine. believed that his Majesty's gracious
answer to the Address of the House of Commons of the
26th of March, was calculated to raise expectations of his
conferring an independent charter on this University, so as
'to enable it to grant degrees in all the Faculties excepting
those of divinity and medicine, yet his Majesty's Ministers
having devised a more comprehensive and efficient plan,
embracing all seminaries of the kind for education, and con-
fiding also in the sufficiency of the Board of Examiners to
be appointed to the new University, and this institution hav-
ing. nothing to fear from competition with other similar es-
tablishments, recommends to the Council gratefully to ac-
cept the proposed charter."
Colonel JONES thought that it would be better to leave
out the first paragraph. of the resolution of his Hon. and
Learned Friend. He thought that the Government had
given a charter in as large a sense as could be required.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed that the Government was
anxious to meet the wishes of the proprietors and the pub-
lic on this subject ; lie was therefore anxious that they
should lay aside all appearance of difference.—(Hear.)
Mr. Tootle did rot feel disposed to assent to the recom-
mendation of the Hon, Gentleman. He trusted he would
not persist in his objection.
Mr. SASS preferred the plan of the Government to that
originally proposed by the Council.
Mr. it. TAYLOR thought they ought to feel much obliged
to the Government for their plan, for he thought that un-
der it the Institution was much more likely to prosper than
if it hail a separate charter to grant degree a,—(Hear, hear.)
He, therefore, arced with Colonel Jones in wishing that
the early part of the saiWution should be struck out. lie
thought the letters by which the degrees were to be desig-
nated were of great importance.,—(fiear, hour,)
Colonel JONES was authorised 14 a person on whew bp
could rely, to state that he had bean present a few days ago
at a conversation with Mr. Spring Rice, when that gentles
man said that the new University should havesthe power of
geaosin exactly the same degrees as the old Universities.
In a letter i4stolud. in the pamphlet, Mr. Spring Rice also
states that it shoolet e4vays hp ,ppt in mind that the new
University was to be placed OR 4 fontip pi epnelity in all

Majesty.
Mr. 14'1UEND strongly urged the importance of unanimity

in the meeting.
Mr. RoaiiisoN should have felt great pleasure if Mr
Tooke had yielded, and he should give a decided vote for
an amendment, should one be proposed. The measure of
the Government was decidelly the best, and they would do
injustice to themselves if they did not make this appear on
the face of the resolution. He would read two or three
sentences he had written down, expressive of his bpinion as
to the nature of the resolution which should be adopted ;
of course, however, he would not press it on them. " Re-
solved—That we unreluctantly lay aside the title of Uni-
versity the moment the title is legally conferred on the
other body announced by his Majesty's Ministers, and will
cordially and gratefully accept the Charter which proposes
to incorporate our intended University as a College when-
ever the Metropolitan University itself shall be established,
without which we should deem the College Charter itself
to be worthless ; but in connection with which we confi-
dently trust that it will answer every purpose which our in-
corporation as a University would fulfil."—(Hear.)
Mr. TooKE, as no amendment had been moved, would
alter his resolution, by proposinc, that it should commence
" His Majesty's Ministers having been induced to give effect
to the address of the House of Commons of the 26th of
March, to which a gracious answer was returned by his
Majesty, by advising a more comprehensive and efficient
plan," &c.
Dr. BROWN appeared there as one of the delegates of
the Protestant Dissenters, and, he wished, to press on the
Council the necessity of taking care that there was no dif-
ference between the degrees of the new University and those
of Oxford and Cambridge.
Mr. TuLx, M.P., could confirm the statement made by
Colonel Jones as to the language of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, that there should be no distinction between the
new and old Universities.
At the suggestion of Lord BROUGHAM, the resolution
was amended, by striking out the allusion to the address of
the House of Commons.
After a few words from Mr. Jones, Mr. Hume, Mr.
Brown, and some other Gentlemen,
Mr. Professor KEY had heard Mr. Spring Rice declare
that it was intended that the degrees in the new University
should be precisely the same as those at Oxford and Cam-
bridge. He (Mr. Key) had proposed that there should be
a degree in the Faculty of Science, and Mr. Spring Rice
replied " No, let them be precisely the same."
The motion was then agreed to.
Colonel JONES .then moved a vote of thanks to the
Council, which was carried; as were also votes of thanks to
Lord Brougham and Mr. Tooke.