The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-15 00:00:00

GERMAN PAPERS.

VIENNA, FEB. 2. —News has just been received here,
by express, that our troops, in conjunction with those of
the Pope, entered Bill. gna without resistance on the 28th
of January. The Civic Guard did not hesi.ate to I y
Mown and deliver up their arms according to the summons
issued for the purpose, and tie whole population has
~ppoiird none of the uieitsu.s..e.,, which, under e 4 ,;,s• jog cir-
cumstances, have been judged necessary for the public
securi,y. It is affirmed, that in consequence the greater
part of the Imperial Austrian troops are to leave the
city again in a few days and return to Ferrara; the
sm ill detachments which remain behind to maintain the
police in Bologna, will afterwards, as soon as circum-
stances likewise evacuate the Papal t.rritory. Thus,
by the energetic measures of the Austrian Government,
infinite disasters have been prevented, and an end but to
the deplorable scenes which are always attendant on
anarchy. C unt Raditzkry, the Austrian General-in-
Chief in the kingdom of Lombardy and Venice, had gone
in person to Bologna, at the invitation of Cardinal Al-
bani, but, it is added, that he left it on the next day to
return to Mi'an.

DRESDEN, JAN. 29 —Hitherto Saxony has not been
attacked on any side by the cholera, though the quarantine
is everywhere either wholly done away with or reduced to
five days. A public contradiction has been given from
Leipsic to all the reports of cases of cholera said to have oc-
curred there. A post boy from Halle was taken ill at
Skenduitz, the last Prussian station on the road to Leipsic,
but nothing farther happened. In addition to this, our
passage of the Polish fugitives through Leipsic, which is
not quite terminated, and those too, coming directly from
Prussia, refutes the fears of tie most obstinate conta-
gionists. It is true, that in Dresd: n, as everywhere else,
a malignant scarlet fever, with very unhealthy weather,
causes a great mortality. In the last week there were 62
deaths ; a circumstance which has not occurred for years.

AUGSBURG, FEB. 6.—A number of Polish officers who
passed through Augsburg, have left behind the following
expression of their gratitude
We who have had the misfortune to be obliged to
seek refuge in a foreign country, consider it our duty
publicly to express the feelings of gratitude to his Majesty
the Emperor of Austria, with which we have been in-
spired by the treatment we have received, with very few
exceptions, from the authorities in the Imperial dominions.
They cannot dissemble, that truth is as sacred in their eyes
as their cause.

" May their comiades of all ranks, who shall fellow
them through the Imperial Austrian dominions ; and who,
by similar misfortunes, have equal chime to benevolent
attention, experience in their pilgrimage the same humane
treatment."

Reports from Berlin say, that his Majesty's son Prince
William was on the point of going to St. Peters

CONTINUED TROUBLES IN DONEG [--
MOB IN BALLYSHANNON.—A meeting of a si,q;olar and
formidable description took place in Ballysli,i,non on
Thursday. On the previous day, groups of tho peasantry
were seen collected on the adj scent hills, and hu,rns were
occasionally heard; but at ten o'clock on Thursday morn.
ing a large party came in from the direction of Higgins-
town, and drew up in a line opposite the Artillery Bar-
racks, and gave three cheers for Reform ; they then mus-
tered in the Barrack-field, and shortly proceeded towards
Bundoran. On their way they were met by another party
from the county of Sligo, whom they received with three
cheers, and then both parties returned to the Barrack-
field, where another reinforcement from the adjacent
county bad arrived. They then marched through the
town to Fair-green, where they were met by several hun-
dreds of me❑ from Kildoney. From thence they marched
in regular military style, armed with guns, scythes, pikes,
&c., firing shots and huzzaing, into the town, over the
bridge, and stopped at the Artillery barrack, where they
passed some resolutions. Here Captain FERGUSON, J. P.,
rode up and addressed them on their foolish conduct.
A man here rushed out, and, ordering silence, declared
that they came into the town to attack the Orangemen, who
were expected to be in Bally shannon that day. Other voices
exclaimed, "It is false : we come to do away tithes,
and to lower rents." They thence proceeded to the office
of the Bull yshannon Herald, and declared that they wanted
Reform, no tithes, and moderate rents ; and cautioned the
editor against mho epre,en'ing them. The editor declares
" that he is happy to add that not a single respectable per-
son was amongst the dense crowd, which consisted of at
least 6,000 ; and in justice to them we must say that they
did not commit any outrage while in town, which at four
o'clock p.m. was restored to perfect tranquillity. He adds
that Ballyshannon is a most essential situation for Govern-
ment to plant a strong military force in, commanding, as
it does, the northern and western districts of Donegal, and
that it will see the propriety of sending forthwith a suffi-
cient force for the protection of the peaceable inhabitants.
Times.--The editor also publishes a letter dropped into
his hfix by " A 8., commanding 20.000 armed men in
the streets of Ballymhantion, on Thursday, the 10th of
February, 1832," felling the editor to let " His Moat Ex-
celant Magisty and Govurment know their oppressions of
rents,' tithes," &c,

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, by command of his
Majesty, laid certain papers, relative to the sp:ismodic
cholera, on their Lordships' table.—Adjourned.

ROUSE OF COMMONS, FEBRUARY 14.
The SPEAKER entered the House and took his seat at
Four o'ciork.

Mr. SHAW presented a petition from Dublin, praying
for a B:11 to estab:ish and construct a pub!ie cemetery,
which was referred to a Committee.

Mr. HODGSON moved the second reading of the
Shields and Sunderland R Away Bill.
Sir HEDWORTH WILLIAMSON stated that he was
instructed to oppose this Bill, on the ground that the pro
posed railway was wholly unnecessary, and that it hrl
been brought forward by a few interested
The distance between Sunder land and Shields was but
six and a half miles, and there was no want of communica-
tion for the quantity of manufactured goods that are carried
from one town to the other, and the rail road would greatly
increase the burdens on the Commissioners of the turnpike..
road. He held a petition from the occupiers of land for
44 miles out of the 6j miles, and also one from above 900
n.-rsons residing at Sunderland, against the Bill. The
Hon. Baronet, after some further obuervations in opposition
to the Bill, concluded by moving, as an amendment, that
the 11:11 be read a second time this day six months.
Mr. STEPHENSON seconded the amendment.
Mr. HODGSON thought that no case had been made
out against the second reading. He was in hopes his
Hon. Friend was not serious in his intention of dividing
the House upon it.

Lord HOWICK, in presenting a petition from Nlrth
Shields in favour of the Bill, observed that it was a
I,rong measure to throw out the Bill on the second read-
ing, and he should therefore vote in favour of it.

An Hos. MEMBER thought the House would be jus-
tified in throwing out the Bill on a second reading, and
,le should vote against it. He was in hopes his Hon
Friend would divide the House upon it.
Mr. STRICKLAND thought the House was not pre-
pared now to decide the question. The usual practice
Was to allow the subject to go before a Committee. He
therefore trusted his Hon. Friend would consent to the
s-cond reading ; and any opposition thit was intended to
tie made might be brought before the Committee.

The Hou•e then divi Ird, wimn there appeared,
For the second reading 55
Against it
Majority in favOur of the second reading
The Bill was then read a second tnne, and ordered to
he committed.

Mr. EWART presented a petition from Birkenhead,
tgainst punishment by death for crimes against property.
foe Hon. AL-mber also presented a petition from Liverpool
~gainst the G•nei al Reeistry Bill.
Mr. LAMBERT presented a petition from nine parishes
in the county of Wexford against the tithe-system in Ire•
land. He objected to the system as being unjust i❑ prin-
ciple, and tyrannical in operation. It was a tax upon the
industry of the country, and the mode of collecting these
ithes was alike unjust and offensive.
Mr. CAREW supported the petition, and said he was
urepared to make any sacrifice, that this great and im-
portant question might be settled.
_ _

Mr. %i'ALKER consitte.ed that there could be nothing
inure untrue than to say that the opposition to the pay-
, went of tithes in Irelsnd was a Catholic . pposition—it was
' an universal opposition ; anti but 1.. r the unhappy slate of
tip tat; on in which the .country. asther w the.- wits...a.tthi
period, there would not be a single Orangeman
thoughout the whole of Ireland but who would be
apposed to the tithe system. In such a country, was
it not most distressing to think that there should be at-
,ernpts made from day to day, by main force, to
compel the payment of those tithes. He much regretted
the seotim-nts all ged to have b en expressed by two
N. ble Lords belonging to the Government, for if it was
true that Lord Grey had threatened to deluge Ireland once
mote with blood, it was withering to the hopes of every
Irishman here who has hitherto supported the pr-sent
Government, and has already caustd much mischief in
Ireland ; but he would caution this Government, or any
other, who should draw the sword in that country, and
especially to support a system they themselves confessed
to be unjust, that though the bayonets might have their
victims, the pikes would have victims also, and it would
not be the blooh of the tithe resisters that would alone be
sled ; but the threat of force was absurd, fir whatever
the contemplated punishment might be, he defied it to
succeed ; tor supposing a Minister weak or rash enough,
or, he would add, wicked enough to attempt it, where are
the prisons to confine, or the fleets to carry into exile, or
the executioners sufficiently numerous or hardened to
put to death nine milhons ot people ? It was untrue
to attribute the opposition to tithes to Catholics alone; it
is, and always has been, oppostd by every sect in Ireland, and
he firmly believed, it it were not tor the unhappy state of
party now in that cottony, there would not be a layman in
it found to take the part of tithes. It has been proposed by
some to give more power to the clergy to enable them to
collect this tax ; but it was the extraordinary powers
already vested in the Church, and the atrocious manner in
which it has been too frequently abused, that has assisted
to make this tax as odious as it is ; and an increase of this
power, so far from rendering the payment secure, would
make it more obnoxious. To show what power the clergy
now had, and how that power may be turned into an en-
gine of oppression, he begged the attention of the House
to the following statement, which occurred to his own
knowledge, within the district from whence those petitions
came :—A fanner, belonging to the parish of Enniscorthy,
was cited to the Ecclesiastical Court of Ferns (the Judge
himself a clergyman) for subtraction of tithe. The farmer
appeared, the case was called on, and the suit discusse.4 ;
but to the farmer's astonishment, though he was the victor,
he was condemned by this religious Judge to pay the costs
of the suit, and was told that his refusal to comply would
increase the costs 10s. for a monition ; the fanner conse-
quently did pay his parson the costs and got a receipt ; on
the following mouth the fanner received a second cita-
tion for the same tithe, and there being then but one
proctor belonging to the Court of Ferns, and who haul
been engaged by the clergyman against him, he, at consi-
derable expellee, procured the atteudance of a proctor Item
the Court of Kilkenny; when the case was called on, the
Judge refused to allow the farmer's proctor to give his as-
sistance unless he consented to become a proctor of the
Court of Ferns, and pay the admittance fee to the regis-
trar ; the poor farmer had to comply and pay the lee for
him ; this proctor then re erred the Judge to the statute,
which alone gives him jurisdiction in such tithe cases, and
which enacts that no second citation shall issue for the
same tithe, and claimed a dismissal and costs in favour of his
client; the Judge admitted the statute, and called on the
defendant to prove his defence, who then handed to the
Judge the receipt be had formerly received from the clergy-
' man. The Judge, without reading it, twisted it up, and
the ew it with violence in the proctor's face, asking, How
he darrd to give the Judge of a Court of Law an un-
stamped document ?" and refused to receive it in proof.
'life farmer then referred to the clergyman himself, who
was sitting near the Judge, " whether as a man of honour,
he had not received the costs of the former citation ?" The
clergyman refused to give answer. The defendant's proc-
tor next said, the Judge had the means of knowledge
within himself, and requested him to refer to his order
or rule-book whim* lay before him. This the Judge re
fused, saying he would not be accessory to defrauding the
registrar of his fees; but that if the farmer would nos
pay him for making a search, the book should be re-
erred to. It was then proposed the registrar should be
examined as a witness ; but here again the Judge in
terfered, on the ground that it would deprive the regis-
trar of his fee, which at length, as a last resource, the
firmer paid ; and the Judge referred to the rule book,
from whence he read, that the former snit had been called
on and dismissed, and costs given ag .iost the farmer ; but,
added the Learned and Reverend Judge, " it must be a
mistake;" and he forthwith ordered the unfortunate
farmer to pay the tithe then claimed, and also the costs
ot this second suit. The farmer astonished, with tears
in his eyes, begged for mercy, or at least that the former
costs should be deducted ; but the Judge told him, that it
he did not pay what was now ordered, a monition should

issue at further expence to him, and that if he said a
word more, he should be sent to gaol for disturbing the
Court, and delaying the course of public justice. Several
oth, r causes were next tried that day, for claims by the
same clergyman for tithe of tobacco for 1(.1/ per acre.
This new claim was decreed to the clergyman, and the
Judge followed his sentence, by saving, " That he
wished the clergy of the diocese to being suits he•
fore him for the tithes of everything that grew in
their p riches, and that he would decree in their favour ;
and that if they could prove to him that ink bottles grew
upon trees. he would tithe them." Another parish from
whence the petitions have come is Cirne ; it pr on an
average, 10.. an acre tithe; it has only two Protestant
families in it ; and one of them, an old gentisman, hail
been for the last thirty years perpetual churchwarden—
there not being a second male Protestant parishioner; yet
the clergyman wanted to force the parish to build a new
church, on pretence that the old one was too small for
hie congregation. Another of the petitions came from
the Union of Duricorinuck, where the rector endeavoured
to enforce tithes of eggs, poultry, and milk—a tithe un-
known in Ireland. Another is from Maclas ; the former
rgymao of which used to erase the slims charged by his
tithe proctors in their valuation books, and insert lamer
,tioms in lieu, which he, in some instances, recovered from
ntis parishioner's ; but the fraud was at length diacovet ed.
Those were a few instances of the tyranny of the present
system For centuries has this grievance been complained
of ; for centuries have the Irish in vain demanded justice,
and he should conclude with the sentiment of a learned
and respected prelate—" May their hatred to tithes be as
lasting as their love of justice."
Several Hon. Members rose, but in consequence of the
loud calls for Lord Althorp,
The Nosiest LORD addressed the House. He did not
think it was proper for him to interfere in debates
on petitions, and if this petition were only supported
by the speech of the Hon. Member who presented it, he
would not have risen to advert to it. But there were cer-
tain expressions which had been made use of by the Hon.
Member who spoke last, which made it necessary
for him to enter into some explanation. The lion.
Member hid said that his Noble Friend at the head of the
Government hail threatened in another place to deluge
Ireland with blood on the subject of tithes.—( He ir. )
It was true that on a former night, when an allusion had
been made to this su'iject, lie (Lord Althorp) was in the
House, and lie heard the charge against his Noble Friend
with touch astonishment, and the reason he had not
contradicted the assertion was, that he was not au-
thorised to do so. He had, during the whole of
his political life, acted with his Noble Friend, anti he
was prepared to state, that while they were both prepared
and ready to enforce the law of the country when it was
hroken, yet it was a principle with his Noble Friend and
himself that when any extraordinary measures were required
to enforce the law, they would not enforce it by such
means. unless that enforcement were accompanied by a
remedy of the evils compla;ned of —( Loud cries of hear,
hear. ) That wis the principle upon which his Noble
Friend and himself had al ways acted. It was
highly necessary that the law should be upheld and
illegal combinations suppr.sseci, but if these combinations
were excited by the existence of grievances, those
grie-
vauc s oueht to be remedied. That was the principle on
which his M,jesty's Government were prepared to act.
On the motion that the petition be laid on the table,
Mr. HUME. felt confident that the explanation would
not only give the highest satisfaction to the House, but
that it would allay the extreme anxiety which prevailed
elsewhere It the Noble Earl (Grey) had been
aware of the number of communications from all parts
of the country, which the speech of the Noble
Earl had caused, he would feel the deepest regret,
The Honourable Alember was very happy to heir the
explanation just offered, and was sure the intentions ex-
pressed by the Noble Earl elsewhere must have been Janie-
understood.—(Hear, hear )
Mr. O'CONNh:LL heard the explanation of the Noble
Lord with unfeigned pleasure. In regard to the collection of
tithes, lie knew of nothing to prevent the law being
c irried into effect if it were enduratile ; but if it were not
endurable, it was impossible for them to enforce the law
without holding out the prospect of relief. He tendered his
humble thanks to the Noble Lord opposite for the explana-
tion which had just been given, and he hoped that the
spirit which that Noble Lip d had just evinced would meet
with co-op-ration elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.)
Laid ALTHORP observed, that his Noble Friend
(Lord Grey) ft of assured him, that in the . speech which
vas the subj at of the present discussion, he did not in
the slightest degree depart from the principles which he
(Lord Abbots.) had just laid down.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHAW, with much reluctance, obtruded himself
eusipaeinciathlley p
were itletain,:guroenbethsiislegnute,mitnioonre,
but he could not sit still and hear the clergy of
Ireland heli d, nor could he hear combinations which were
11Wiluesne.Colimetri7t.toeuelsd
against the law of the land called " combinations of well.
disposed persons." Tire clergy had been called extortioners,
and treated with harshness. The fact was that a more
patient and enduring body did not exist than the Protes-
tant clergy. In the most disturbed districts, from
calculations which had been made, it appeared
that the amount of tithes demanded by the clergy
did not amount to one-twelfth of the rental paid
to the landlord. He spoke particularly of Queen's
county, which was the most disturbed district in Ireland,
and in which the demand for tithes did not amount
to one-twelfth of the rental. He denied that in
those disturbed districts the combinations originated
with tithes or taxes. He could not agree with those who
asserted that it was legal to refuse to pay tithes, and only
illegal to enforce the payment by violence. He
contended that they were hound by law to pay
the tithes. The Hon. Aletnber then related a
fact within his knowledge of a parishioner riding three
miles to carry the amount of his tithes to his Protestant
minister. Instances of a similar nature could he adduced.
Another clergyman had told him that a meeting had been
held against the payment of tithes, at which a Protestant
attended, and on being asked why he did so, he stated he
was the only Protestant in the parish who lived
in a thatched house, and that if he had not at.
tended his house would have been burned to the
ground. After such a statement could Hon. Members
say that the present opposition on the part of the Pro-
testants was a withal; one ? With respect to the
allegations that this system had not commenced
latterly, but was of long standing in Ireland, Hon. Gen-
tlemen knew perfectly well that some few years ago tithes
were paid as willingly in Ireland as rents. They were
looked on as a mere charge on the land, and it was pro-
verbial in that country that the Catholics were the best
tithe prayers. The opposition raised was to be traced
to the Catholic clergy. He was not an advocate fur the keep-
ing up ol the tithe system altogether, as it at present existed,
but as long ;,s the
present system remained the law of the
land, and force was used to resist the payment of tithes,
that loree must be met by force.
Mr. BLAKENEy, in supporting the prayer of the
Sir ROBElnßih'isP
petition, said. that the Committee appointed to inquire
opinionEEf stiyrt,heist thvaesrebteheen cmhyoleurnaifotl:mat
into the tithe system was a complete nonentity.--
(Cheers.)
wishdifficult
ffi e
utiot exercise
cuss,
snsy_, littlewithout
h influenceoot preju prejudicing
utinnigg htthlai
afflicted Ireland.
e
i
st
old egTvteion hereaftersvltieh ti,t)
purpose of discouraging premature discussions on subjects
and I shall not be tempted by the example of any of the
gentlemen who have preceded me to enter into a discussion
for which the House in its present state is not fit ; but
I do repeat. my earnest advice to gentlemen that they will
reserve. their Judgment until the House shall have laid be-
fore it not merely the opinion of the Committee which
this
it has been their pleasure to appoint, but the evidence
will bmeosttheimlpillotrytanotf
qttau:eiefs:utlilfollirco;ottLhns
also on which that opinion is founded, and when they
shall have the power of determining for themselves
whether that opinion is warranted by the evidence. I
cannot, however, but express my deep regret, when we
have reason to expect that at no very distant period sonic
report will proceed from that Committee, of the decla-
rations made by Ministers of the Crown in the two
branches of the Legislature—( Hear, hear, hear)_
which, whether they be reconcilable will each other
or not, ate at least calculated to raise impressions and ex-
pectations totally at variance with each other. Sir, the
speech of the Noble Lord just delivered is one that wil
make the deepest impression. 1 presume it originates in
some change in the intentions of his Majeaty's Government.
—.(Hear.) It it does not, I for one will not be a party to
the delusion which I think the speech of the Noble

consider the speech of tae Noble Lord as calculate,: to pre-
clude the enforcement of the laws. The Noble Lord ha•
positively sated that the laws should he enforced, whilst
the grievance ghoul t be effectually remedied, Sir, to make
that declaration, unless his Majesty's Ministers have some
specific plan for what they call the effectually remedying that
grievance, is calculated to make it impossible to enforce the
law. If Government are prepared to bring forward some
plan as an effectual provision for the clergy, different
from tithe. I hope that without delay it will be brought
forward, and thereby relieve the Committee from their
I ibour. and responsibilities. __(Loud cheering.)
Lord ALTHORP thought that he had sufficiently,
guarded while he it distluctly the deteriniira-
tion of his Majesty's Government to enforce the law
of the realm, but if resistance to a law had
taken place, in consequence of a grievance in the:
country, that grievance ought also to be remedied. He
could not see how his declaration could have the effect of
Preventing the due enforcement of the law.—(Hear,
hear.) He did not apprehend that in the Committee
any thing had passed which could make it impossible
that a remedy for the existing grievance would be pro-
posed. At the same time. what extraordinary power would
he sought to carry it into effect, whatever that remedy
might be, d-pended on future considerations. It was
not for him to declare it to the House now,
but the measures of Government having been misunder-
stood and mi-represented, he considered it necessary to state
the principles on which they intended to act, and he guarded
himself carefully in stating that it was their determina-
tio❑ to enforce the laws.—( Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. PELHAm,
Lord MILTON observed, that there could be no doubt
grievance existed, but he wished the people to know,
that the landlord, and not the tenant, would be the gainer
by the abolition of tithes.
Mr. GRATTAN said that no force under the controul
of the Government at present coirlii collect the tithes in
Irel end. Every one was, he believed, fully convinced of
that fact. He denied that this was a Catholic conspiracy
to refu-e payment of tithes—the feeling of opposition to the
tithe system was general in Irel old. He hims-ilt was a
Protestant, and he had many Protestant tenants; and he
believed that most, if not all of them, were dissatisfied
with the pr sent tithe system.
Sir R. PEEL, in explanation, said that he was not an
advocate for the rigid enforcement of the law, and was not
disinclined to admit that some remedy was required, and
to listen to it when proposed.
Mr STANLEY regretted this discussion at the present
moment, because it seemed to him a little premature; as
the fact was, that the Committee appointed to examine
into this subject were about to come to a decision which,
if not quite, would be at least nearly unanimous. He had
not heard the observations of his Nob e Friend near him,
nor of the Noble Lord in the other House, but he was
ready to declare himself, that the Government would not
have come down to Parliament to ask for a coercive mea•
sure unless they felt at the same time that they were able
to promise relief.—(Cheers ) At the same time, as a jus-
tification for the coercive measure in the first instance, he
wished to ',mind Hon. Members that a measure of relief,
especially if intended to be one of permanent and eubstan-
tial
relief, was of a nature mare complicated, and would
require more time for•its preparation, than would a measure
of coercion, that was required solely for the vindication of
the law..—(Hear.) He, however, again repeated, that
the Government would nut readily have undertaken to
bring forward a c ercive measure, if, at the same time,
they had not been able to promise the introduction of a
measure of relief.

Mr. CROKER was glad of the explanation just given
by the Rght Hon. Gentleman, by which he supposed
that the Ministers would execute the law immediately, but
that at the same they were prepared to introduce a
measure to remove, not the existence of the tithes them
selves, but the evils attending their collection.
Mr. STANLEY said, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
supposed that the attention of the Ministers was not di-
rccted to the existence of tithes. He begged leave to say,
that their attention Was directed to secure the main-
tenance of the Protestant c'ergy, and at the same time to
the existence of the system of tithes.—( Hear.)
Mr. SHEIL said the last declaration of the Right Hon.
Gentleman was as satisfactory as it was explicit.—(Hear.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman proposed coercion first, and
said at the same time that he was prepared with a measure
of relief. That had been the course pursued by the
Right Hon. Baronet opposi-e, on an occasion which they
could never forget—( Hear, hear)—the occasion when the
Right Hon. Baronet asked that House to put down the
Catholic Association, and to pass a Bill for the Relief of
the Catholics; saying at the time, that if the Bill of Re-
lief was nor passed, he should abandon the Bill fur suppres-
sing the Associatiou.—( Hear, hear.) Recollecting, as he
must always gratefully recollect, that circumstance, he
should not now ask what was the measure of coercion,
since lie found it was to be accompanied with a measure
of liositive relief. He had no wish whatever that the
money taken from the clergyman should be put into the
packet of the landlord. Let a tax be raised, let provision
be made, to secure to the clergyman that to which he was
justly entitled, deducting only the charge for the receivt r.
ship; and it, after the death of the present incumbents,
that which was deemed at least by the people to he
public property, was applied to purposes of public utility
(one of which purposes was the decorous maintenance of the
religion of the State), the peop'e of Ireland would be satisfied;
but no measure that oierely went to secure in abetter manner
the present incomes of the clergy would ever content them.

LEFROY said that if such a measure as that sup-
posed by the Hon. and 1...-arned Gentleman who had jut
spoken to la, in contemplation should be adopted, he should
cease to attend the future m' stings of th Committee. He
hoped that the Right Hon. Gentleman would disclaim any
intention of introducing such a measure, and say distinctly
whether the tithes were intended to be appropriated to any
other purpose than the maintenance of the Established
Church ?

Mr. STANLEY answered that be was responsible fur
his own language, but was not responsible fur that of an-
other person. He thought he had stated as far as was
proper or requisite the views of the Government ; and
with respect to the threat of the Hon. and Learned Gen•
tleman, he should only observe that much as he might
regret the future non-attendance of the Hon. and Learned
:111ernber, the other Members of the Committee would re-
collect that his first attendance at the Committee had been
on the day before yesterday.
The petition was laid on the table.

Mr. LAMBERT, on moving that the petition be
printed, assured the Noble Lord that he had never meant
that the amount now paid in tithes should be merely taken
from the pocket of the parson to be given to the landlord.
Mr. WALLACE defended the conduct of the Ministers
with respect to the question of the appointment of the Com-
mittee, and asserted that they had dune more for the satis-
faction of the country, by the line of conduct they had
adopted on this question, than they could by any ether that
had been pointed out.
Sir R. INGLIS thought that the last observation of the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had only tended to esta-
blish a premium for discontent. In future it would be a
mere question of the amount of openly expiessed discon-
tent required to put down any grievance ; and the neces•
sary amount of discontent being found, it would be readily
applied for such a purpose, and the evil would disappear.
Di.l not the Ministers perceive the evil effect of the prece-
dent they were thus establishing ? Did thi y not perceive
that if they gave up one great body in the country, they
would never be as well able to defend any other that might
he attacked ?

The petition was ordered to be printed.
CHOLERA.
_ _

Lord ALTHORP brought up some papers on the sub-
ject of the cholera.

Mr. CHOKER wished to know whether the cause of
the appearance of the disease had been at. all traced to any
well ascertained cause? He understood that tine of the first
eases was that of a man who had been employed in clean-
ing out a. ship that had recently arrived from Sunderland
He wished to know if that was the fact ?

Mr. P. THOMSON said, that as fa; u the information

terred to had not been in communication with the crew,
iwmlst,oselvieerr,
idikedragteoohdimhseadlfbetoentahlel changed. He.
as the question had come upon him unexpectedly. ofiltehewseoudbeitaniolts,
could assure the House, that every exertion should he
made to procure the most exact information with regard
to all the eases.
Mr. CROKER said, it was impossible to expect more
from the Government. The statement made by the Right
Hon. Gentleman was of great importance ; and I etomight
that enough had now taken place to direct the attention
the medical profession to one most remarkable fact, with
a view to enable them to ascertain the cause of the spread.
ing of the disease, and the means to arrest that clime
Mr. WARBURTON wished to mention a circumstance
of which he had been informed in the c,atr,e of the day.
He understood that the buy of one of the persona who
had died had ben visited by mul-itudea of spectators,
who went into the room where it was. and there inliaierl
the attnospbere of the close room in which it lay. He
deprecated, in the strongest manner, Th. .rratifieation of
such idle curiosity, and wished no take that opportunity of
stafmr., that it was the duty of the parish r fficer% and of
the p lice, In ore, nt the repetition of such conduct
Colonel EVANS wished to have some intornurion re-
specting the case of a soldier w the Gu irds who had been
attacked with cholera, and who was mended duriug his
illness by a great number of persons, non- ~f whom had
since suffered any thing ;—a proof, if the fact were as be
understood it, that the disease was not of that den! eiously
contagious nature which it. had been revrraeri‘ed In
Sunder! ,nd, it had appeared that th disease had spr,ad
more to theo'northward and snuthw which w .s another
;goof of the ••Jme fact; for °oh., wise it would h ••
nearly equ ,Ily all ar..und. Ile berxed t'i ask, whether
there was any objection to lay the pipers r.-lating to the
case of the soldier of the Guards before .lie II .use?
Mu. P. THOMSON said, the only pavers he knew of
relating lo that case consisted of a report, in which t e
medical men distinctly attributed the soldier's illness to
other causes besides the chol-ra. lie did not kn,.w any
objection to lay the papers on the table, except that they
did not relate to the subject.
The papers brought up by Lord At:rimer were laid on
the table.