The Sun.
London, England, 1835-03-07 00:00:00

addresses, he had committed a misdemeanour. This he was
able to show was the law. Nov any man corresponding with
a member of an Orange Society, as such, was guilty of a
misdemeanour; and let it be recollected that these addresses
were signed by the members of certain lodges in their capacity
as such. The Statute declared " that every man who shall
maintain any correspondence or intercourse with any such
society, division, branch or lodge, or member thereof, shall
be guilty of misdemeanour, &c." So that if the Horne
Secretary had sent an answer to Ireland, let the anomaly
be cleared away, and then as he (Mr. O'Connell) knew the
A names, he would try, not the idle offer of the Gallant
Officer, but let them have the indictment--(but who would
be found to file it ?) but it would go to a Grand Jury
selected by the Sheriff of Dublin. The Government
might find an indictment against these persons, but the
power of the Government would be defied by the Sheriff's
Juries, selected as he pleased ; and he would implore the
House to reflect whether, at this enlightened period, they
were to continue this species of misgovernment in Ireland.
He would implore them to consider whether it would be wise
to take up that party through whom the misgovernment of
Ireland had been perpetuated for a period of more than 600
years; and who now had the audacity to make a line of de-
marcation between the different classes of his Majesty's sub-
jects. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then read an ex-
tract from an opinion given by Lord Gosford, in the year
1797, on the subject of the Orange Lodges in Armagh, in
which that Nobleman observed that any Roman Catholic
thought himself happy if the Orangemen did not destroy
him—that there was no security—that persecution, attended
with ferocious crimes, reigned all over the country, neither
age nor sex being spared—that persons professing the Ro-
man Catholic faith were proscribed and persecuted by a law-
less banditti, wha had constituted themselves the judges, and
who aimed at nothing less than their confiscation and banish-
ment—that the extent of their proscription exceeded any
example either in ancient or modern times; more than one
half of the population having been deprived of their fortunes ;
driven, too, at an inclement season of the year, to seek
shelter in more hospitable regions, &c. Yet he (Mr. O'Con-
nell) had been taunted because he had thought it his duty-to
conciliate this faction. He had done so, and he had spent
five years in the attempt. The return to power of this faction
he prophecied would be more disastrous to Ireland than could
be imagined.

Mr. F. SHAW proceeded to contend that, with regard to
Orange Societies, the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin
was wrong when he said that every society was illegal where
there existed a test.—(A laugh.) There was no illegality in
the use of a sign by which the members of a society knew each
other. He would not, however, enter into a dry point of law,
but ho must state the fact that Orangeism had never yet been
pronounced to be illegal. That was a fact which he believed
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would not deny. Hon.
Members of this country did not know the circumstances of
of Ireland—they could not know what was the distempered
condition of that country.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear,"
from the Oppotition.) He would say that that which would
apply to a wholesome state of society might be inconsistent
in a distempered state of society, and the cheers of Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite came with a bad grace from them. Yes, it
was too bad.—( Hear, hear.) Yes, they who were trembling
at the idea of exclusive societies, even those who had always
been the instigators, the abettors, and the creators of such ex-
clusive associations.—( No, no, from Mr. O'Connell.) What,
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman and others said, " No."
They had delicate nerves assuredly ; and they reminded him
of the tde of the giant who had -fed all his life upon wind-
mills, and at last died from eating fresh butter. What would
be said of the Catholic Association, was that not exclusive ?
Mr. O'CONNELL—No ; because there were 1,400 Pro-
testants enrolled in it.

Mr. SHAW would allude to the Hon. Gentleman's late
election, where a large body of Orangemen were placed on
one side of the porch of the Sessions House. To these par-
ties the Hon. and Learned Gentleman addressed himself, say-
ing, what a pity it was that these Englishmen were trying to
sow dissension amongst them ;_ they were all of one country,
and ought not to split upon differences of opinions. He had
said, too, that he recollected the time when the Reman Ca-
tholics used to walk round the statue of King William, when
90 out of 100 felt no offence, and if they (the persons he ad-
dressed) felt in the same way, the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin added he would take their arm, or walk hand in
hand with them when they got rid of the Sassenachs. And
when the. Hon. and Learned Member made this declaration,
he accompanied it by walking round the table, demonstrating
how he would walk round the statue of King William. And
not three days afterwards he abused these persons in the
same newspaper in which he had before lauded them, and
called the Orangemen a bloody, brutal, cruel faction. This
then, was meant to allay irritation ! On another occasion the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had alluded to the toast of
d' The glorious memory," though he (Mr. Shaw) thought too
much importance was attached to this customary toast • on se.
veral occasions he denounced this custom as one calculated to
keep up ill will. Yet on an occasion of a'meeting in Drogheda,
where persons advocating the repeal of the Union were seated,
he laughed to scorn the idea that any toast of the kind could be
offensive, and declared he would send even to the river Boyne
to drink it. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman went to a pub-
lic breakfast, where every man was called to drink " the glo-
rious, pious memory of King William." The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman found fault with the appointment of the
Attorney-General in Ireland, and had spoken of two other
legal appointments of the Assistant Barristers. He had passed
by one without observation, because he knew he was of the
Liberal party. With reference to Mr. Robinson, however,
he (Mr. Shaw) must beg to say that he had asked him for
his vote, but that gentleman, not wishing to become a partisan,
had refused him, and at the same time declared he would not
vote at all. But who had not the lion. and Learned Gentle-
man abused, from the Lord-Lieutenant downwards ? He had
abused the Lords-Lieutenants of all parties; and as to the
declaration which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had sta-
ted upon what he considered to be credible authority, had been
made by the present Lord-Lieutenant, he really believed the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had somehow or other brought
forward the suggestion of his own invention, when he ascribed
to that Noble person such a declaration as that he knew Ire-
land could be governed only upon Orange principle!. He
knew, however, that it was at all times hard to compete with
a negative, and he knew that when once an imputation of this
nature went through the country, an injurious impression was
the result. He had been honoured by the Lord-Lieutenant by
conferences on the principles upon which the Government should
be carried on—( Cheers from the Opposition)—but lie did not
pretend to say that he had offered any counsel on the matter ;
and unless the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin
would take upon himself to say that the Lord Lieutenant was
unworthy of being believed upon his word, he (Mr. Shaw)
would at once give the contradiction to the assertion which
had been made, because he well knew the contrary to be true.
But who could escape the censure of that Hon. and Learned
Gentleman? Again he had declared that lie (Mr. Shaw) had
been all his life a partisan ' • this he denied to have been the case.
He would class it with the other facts adduced by Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite, the character of which he would illustrate by
one instance. One fact asserted by an Hon. Gentleman op-
posite (Mr. O'Dwyer) was that agitation had made him (Mr.
Shaw) a Judge, and that agitation had made him a Member
of Parliament. He would not quarrel with the opinion which
the Hon. Gentleman opposite might entertain of him; but this
fact the Hon. Gentleman had stated, that to agitation was be
(Mr. Shaw) indebted for his Recordership. On the honour of
a gentleman—and upon such an asseveration lie appealed for
credit to the other side of the House as well as his own—from
the time he was called to the bar until elevated to his present
situation, and until the dissolution of Parliament, immediately
after which he was first returned to the House, he had never
interfered in politics, and with agitation of any description
he was as unconnected as the child unborn.—(Hear, hear.)
But the Hon. Gentleman opposite might, in reply, say that
if he (Mr. Shaw) had not himself, his father had established
claims which led to his professional and political promotion.
The best answer to an observation of that nature would per-
haps be comprised in one remarkable event—one, indeed, so
remarkable as to have shortened his father's Parliamentary
career. His father, it was pretty generally known, ceased
to be a Member of that House, after sitting in it for twenty-
two years.—( Hear, hear.) Was it agitation, the agitation
with which he (Mr. Shelve) was charged, that deprived him
of his seat? No. He lost the honour of sitting in that
House by voting for Roman Catholic Emancipation.—( Cheers
from the opposition benches.) He did say that when Hon.
Gentlemen opposite made those bold assertions they were
sometimes in the habit of hazarding, they should, he would
not say, not misrepresent, but when they ventured on them,
should not be totally ignorant of the circumstances.--( Hear.)
On that topic he would merely make one more observation.
Never, either in or out of the House, did he make any, the
slightest, allusion to the Hon. Member for Drogheda. On no
occasion did he ever do so, in any way ; and yet the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman always bore in mind his having a judi-
cial situation—his being a Judge, when lie singled him out
for a personal attack.—( Hear, hear.) He now begged to re-
vert to some of the views of the Hon. and Learned Member
for Dublin ( Mr. O'Connell.) The Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman had, he believed, divided the Irish into two classes—
the Orangemen and the Christians—(" Hear, hear," from Mr,
O'Connell.) The Christians were those who meekly and sub-
missively followed the Hon. and Learned Gentlemen ; and the
Orangemen, who were contrasted with them, were those who
-resisted his domination ; the Orange Knight of Kerry, for in-
stance.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") That accomplished
and enlightened man—that consistent and able Senator and
most useful country gentleman, who had always opposed him-
self to the enemies of the Catholic claims, in support of those
claims, kept himself, for 25 years, excluded from office.—
( Hear, hear.) Why, then, did the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber for Dublin call him the " Orange Knight of Kerry ;411 He
did so, in order to hold out a threat of assassination against
those who would support the Knight.--Great confusion, and
cries of " Order, order," in the midst of which—
Mr. O'CONNELL rose and said—l cannot, Sir, allow an
observation of that character to pass, without submitting to you,
Sir, whether it be Parliamentary.—( Hear, hear.
The 2PI 4Fsg R made some ebservations, which, from the
interposition of the Chair, were inaudible in the Gallery. We
understood they were to the effect, that the observations of the
Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Shaw) were irregular.
Mr. SHAW withdrew the observations.—( Hear.) They
had, however, been elicited by whet hp lad seen in the Hon.
and Learned Gentlernaro Own papers. There he saw the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman reported as having said that those who
voted for the Orange Knight of Kerry should have a death's-
head and cross-hones pallitts on their doors,.—(Cheers from
the Ministerial benches.) Would the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman submit the construction of that to any t melee trIP1:1?
Did he not know how a respected Roman Catholic INObleMan,
in his own county, felt and thought upon that subject, a No-
bleman, whom he (Mr. Shaw) would not implicate further in
the transaction, by naming him,
or by any other allusion.
( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman talked,