The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-20 00:00:00

quence of its proposing to confer permanent powers on the
Executive. Besides it was not shown who was to pay for
the enormous expenditure that might be incurred if these
powers were to continue to be exercised without control and
for an unlimited period. (Hear, hear.) With regard to
vaccination, according to the provisions of t•.+• Poor Law
Act, adequate provision was made for vaccination, and
therefore he thought it quite unnecessary to confer these
powers on the executive. He concluded by moving that
the bill be re-committed.
Mr. Williams and Sir G. B. Pechell opposed the bill.
Mr. HENLEY said that a much larger principle was
involved in the bill than was supposed by the right hon.
gentleman who introduced it to the house. He objected
most strongly to the power of visitation, by which domestic
privacy would be invaded, and there should be a very clear
case made out before the house consented to confer such
unpopular powers. He thought that the powers might be
continued for three years, but not longer ; and he sug-
t gested to the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Lowe) to accede
to a compromise of this description.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE denounced the bill as one of the
grossest jobs that had ever been attempted to be perpetrated
on the house. He believed that it was only a Whig Go-
vernment that would propose such a measure, as it had not
been attempted by a Tory Government. Having referred
to the act of 1848, the hon. member contended that
it was most unjust to attempt to pass this bill under present
circumstances. The measure had not been fully discussed;
there was no time in the present session to discuss it, and
therefore the proper course would be to pass a bill con-
tinuing the powers to the Privy Council for another year,
and next year they could give the necessary discussion to
any proposition for rendering their powers perpetual.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COWPER said that much of the opposition to the
present bill was founded on an erroneous impression which
existed, that the measure was the same in its provisions as
that introduced in the time of Mr. Chadwick. He agreed
that the bill should be made permanent, as it would be the
means of enabling the powers conferred on the Privy Coun-
cil being carried out more efficiently. If the house on a
future occasion considered that the bill did not act well they
could repeal it. With regard to the bill he maintained it was
calculated to render considerable service to the public ; and
he adverted to the provision by which parties were exa-
mined with reference to their qualifications to vaccinate.
One of the great objections to vaccination arose from its
being practised by unqualified persons, and this bill would
obviate that objection. It was proposed by the framers of
the bill to bring the recent discoveries of science to bear on
a great epidemic, and it was a fact that 100,000 persons died
annually from causes to which medical science might have
beenapplied with success. Sanitary science had only recently
attained to its present height, and it was only lately that
the causes of many epidemic diseases which were ravaging
families had been discovered. He concluded by expressing
his conviction that the opposition to the bill was founded
on an ignorance of its scope, or what would be its natural
operation on the interests of the community.
Mr. SOTHERON ESTCOURT strongly opposed the
bill on the ground of its being permanent instead of tem-
porary.
Mr. EDWIN JAMES opposed the bill, and alluded
to what had occurred some time since at Croydon
and Hitchen, where the Board of Health had
fouled a stream, which resulted in the outbreak of a
fearful epidemic in the former place. The effect of the bill
would be to vest the whole power on this most important
matter of the public health in the medical officers, for it
could not be expected that the Privy Council would them-
selves interfere in the case of an outbreak of an epidemic.
The result would be that local boards, finding that they
were deprived of all power by the system of centra-
lisation that was sought to be established by this
bill, would become apathetic, and the consequence might be
most disastrous in the event of the country being visited
by a formidable epidemic. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BASS opposed, and Mr. CoNimmam supported, the
bill.
Mr. LOWE replied. He complained that he had net
received the support from hon. members on the opposite
side of the house which he had a reason to expect from
their conduct when a bill was brought in by Lord Derby's
Government.
Mr. SPOONER denied that his party was open to any
censure for not giving the right hon. gentleman support on
the present occasion, and strongly advised him to accede to
the proposition for making the bill temporary and not per-
manent.
The house then divided, when the numbers were—
For the third reading
Against it 95
Majority —6
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL.

The adjourned debate on the second reading of this bill
was resumed by
Mr. S. ESTCOURT, who moved that the whole subject
of the oath of declaration to be taken to qualify for exer-
cising municipal office should be referred to a select com-
mittee.
Mr. SPOONER and Mr. NEWDEGATE opposed the
bill, and severally contended that the abolition of the pre-
sent oath was calculated to injure the stability of the Church
of England.
Mr. BAXTER supported the bill.
Alderman SALOMONS said that he would vote for the
bill, and he considered the oaths in question as a useless
ceremony ; and in making that statement he distinctly dis-
avowed any intention of injuring the State Establishment,
which he considered could not suer in the slightest de-
gree from the proposed abolition.
After some conversation the house divided—
For the second reading l3O
Against it
Majority —B6
The bill was then read a second time.
The house adjourned at half-past three o'clock till six
o'clock.

The house resumed at six o'clock.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
CRUELTIES TO SEAMEN.—Mr. M. MILNES. on Tuesday,
the 2d of August, to move an humble address to her
Majesty, praying her Majesty to enter into negotiations
with the Government of the United States, for the purpose
of preventing the gross cruelties now practised on merchant
seamen engaged in the traffic between this country and the
United States, and for bringing the offenders to justice.
THE PEACE.—Mr. B. COCHRANE, on Friday, on going
into committee of supply, to ask Lord J. Russell whether
he will lay on the table of the house the despatches which
have passed between himself and Lord Cowley and Sir
James Hudson, since the conclusion of the peace between
France and Austria.
DEVONPORT DOCKYARD.—Captain L. VERNON, on
Thursday, the 28th, to move for some returns relating to
vacancies in Devonport Dockyard since December last, the
dates when they had been filled up, and copies of all corre-
spondence with the surveyor to the navy.
NATIONAL DEFENCES.—Mr. HORSMAN, on going into
committee of supply, to move a resolution to the effect, that
the expense of all works required for the national defence
' should be met by a fund specially provided for the purpose,
and independent of the ordinary revenue of the country.
WEST YORKSHIRE ASSIZES.
Mr. W. LEATHAM asked whether the judges had re-
ported on the West Riding Assizes question, and whether
the report would be laid before the house ? -
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that he had not received any re-
port on the subject; but from a document which he found
in the Home-office it appeared that the judges had conveyed
to his predecessor their opinion in regard to the expediency
of holding assizes for the West Riding; and they agreed in
the unanimous opinion of the commissioners appointed by
her Majesty that it would not be expedient, with a view to
the administration of justice, to hold assizes in the West
Riding.
COMMISSIONERS FOR TAKING AFFIDAVITS
IN THE CITY.
In reply to Sir J. DUKE, whether commissioners had
been appointed in the City for this purpose,
Sir G. C. LEWIS promised to make inquiry and give
an answer in a day or two.
RE- ORGANISATION OF THE INDIAN ARMY.—
THE INDIAN FINANCIAL STATEMENT.
Mr. H. BAILLIE asked whether it was the intention of
the Government to give the house an opportunity of ex-
pressing its opinion upon the re-organisation of the Indian
army, or whether they proposed to settle the question with-
out reference to Parliament.
Sir C. WOOD said that possibly it might be necessary to
bring in a bill for the purpose, in which case, of course, it
would be his duty to explain what was proposed to be done.
If not, he should take some opportunity of making a state-
ment as to what course the Government intended to take.
Mr. BRIGHT said he had not correctly caught the right
hon. baronet's answer. Did he mean to say that he would
fix a day for bringing the subject of Indian finance before
the house ? •
Sir C. WOOD—I have answered the question of the right
hon. gentleman opposite, whether I would give the house
an opportunity of expressing an opinion on the state of the
Indian army.
Mr. BRIGHT—Then I beg to ask the right hon. baro-
net whether he can fix a day when the whole subject of
India can be brought before the house, in the statement
which the Indian Government is expected annually to make?
Sir C. WOOD, who spoke with his back to the gallery,
and was very indistinctly heard, was understood to say that
it was not in his power to fix a day. The annual accounts
were not yet made up, and any statement which he could
make without them would be most unsatisfactory. As soon
as the accounts were ready they would be laid before the
house.
Mr. BRIGHT—The right hon. gentleman proposes to
give papers; but surely all the facts which they contain
could be embraced in his own speech. Will the right hon.
gentleman say when the papers will be before the house ?
Considering the time of _the session, I think I am entitled to
ask that question. (Hear, hear.)
Sir C. WOOD said that the completion of the accounts
did not at all depend upon him, or the home Government.
He had not the slightest disposition to postpone the state-
ment which he was expected to make. That statement
would not be a very agreeable one, but it would be more
satisfactorily made when he was in full possession of all the
requisite information.
Mr. BRIGHT—I beg to give notice that I shall repeat
my question to the right hon. baronet on Thursday evening.
MILITIA PRACTICE.
Mr. H. BERKELEY put the following question to the
Secretary for War :—" Whether it be true that the Wor-
cestershire Militia had been called out four times, had been
embodied twice, and stationed at the two principal training
camps, Aldershott and the Curragh ; that during the whole
of that time the men have never had a ball cartridge served
out to them, and have the old Musket to carry about ;
whether this is equally true as regards the North Glou-
cester and other militia regiments ?"
Mr. S. HERBERT said it was true that the Worcester-
shire militia had been twice out in training, in 1853 and in
1859; and they had also been twice embodied, from Nove-
mber, 1854, to June, 1856, and from November, 1857, to May,
1858. They had been at Aldershott, and also at the Cur-
ragh. He found that 6,000 rounds of ball cartridge had
been served out for practice. He, as Secretary for War,
gave no orders as to the practice of any particular regiment.
All he had to do was to honour the orders that were sent
for material. It was quite true that at the time referred to
the militia had not got the Enfield rifles • but now they had
them, and he hoped that all the embodied militia would
have them soon. The military authorities, the colonels com-
manding the regiments, and the generals inspecting where
the militia
tHed:E
regiments were quartered, were the persons to
decide
VI
.ecr on the nature of the drill to which they should be
far and how it should be carried. .
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rifle
ritoflienfurtheniWsh
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Brigade,
the, lo3rt ht
hienlsotn.
ra sit teh u
sae 1 iseanddo eir
g
line
S.
HERBERT was understood to say
them lirn.
that
was the ono referred to, but he hoped that attsotmtheef latteratur e
Period they should be able ,to replace thorn all with short
I rifles. - -

Mr. VIVIAN said it was desirable that this should to
known, that the volunteer rise corps now providing their
own weapons should provide short ones.
THE PEACE.

Mr. HORS lAN gave notice that on Friday he Flculd
rapaat his question xtft to whether any communication bad