The Sun.
London, England, 1866-06-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS.—LAST EVENING.
• The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at six o'clock.
The appearance of the house testified to the deep
interest that is felt at the present critical position
of political parties. The house was crowded, and
there was a large attendance of ladies in the gallery.
THE RESIGNATION OF THE MINISTRY.
Earl RUSSELL—I rise with feelings of the
deepest anxiety to state to your lordships what has
occurred with respect to the event to which I have
referred on a former occasion, and the reasons which
induced the Government to tender their resignation.
But not to keep your lordships in suspense as to the
statement I have to make, I may at once announce
to your lordships that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer and 1 went to Windsor Castle to-day and
had an audience of her Majesty, and that we re-
turned to London bearing with us her Majesty's
permission to resign our offices. Her Majesty, on
receiving the tender of our resignation in the first in-
stance, was pleased to say that she wished the Cabi-
net to reconsider their decision—that it appeared to
her Majesty that the Government had only been de-
feated on a point of detail in regard to their measure;
and further, that the present state of the Continent
wade it very inexpedient to make a change in the
Goverrunent at this time. Her Majesty meant by
this that those who had communication with foreign
Powers must necessarily have advantages over
others, however able or experienced, who had been
strangers to the negotiations which have been car-
ried on. Now, with regard to the first point, that
our resignation took place on a point of detail.
When I accepted office I found that pledges with
reference to reform had been given by various ad-
ministrations—by my own in the first instance,
by
_that of Lord Aberdeen, and by that of Lord
Palmerston. These pledges had not been redeemed,
and in consequence of that, a reproach did exist,
and would continue to exist, on every party who did
not embrace every opportunity that might seem
practicable to solve a question which, if left un-
solved, might be productive of serious evils to the
country. It appeared to me not wise to bring for-
ward the question of Reform unless there
was a disposition on the part of the people
to entertain it ; but I believed, from what
I heard, and from the speeches made at
the last election, that the present time
was propitious. I thought it necessary, in conse-
quence of the suspicion which had fallen on public
men in reference to this question, to declare at the
earliest period, that whatever might be the measure
on which the Government decided, by that they
would stand or fall. Having had a considerable
experience in the introduction of the Reform Act,
it seemed to me that Earl Grey was right when he
declared, in reference to that measure, that he wished
it to be large in order that it might be safe. We
had to consider whether it was advisable to propose
a measure which might pass easily through Parlia-
ment by a compromise between the views of diffe-
rent parties, or whether an attempt should not be
made to produce a measure which should last undis-
turbed at least as long as the Reform Act had been
undisturbed. It appeared to us that if we made
only trifling amendments—if we enlarged the fran-
chise only a little—if we treated the question as a
party measure, that we should incur the risk that in
three or four years there would be a renewed agita-
tion on the subject, and that, therefore, we should
not attain the settlement we desired. We thought
it our duty not to bring in a Reform Bill unless we
had reason to hope that it might endure for a con-
siderable time. That by the principle on which we
acted, it seemed to us that we should make the bill
sufficiently large to give contentment to the people
who were asking for an extension of the franchise,
both in counties and boroughs ; and the other was
that we should so frame the measure that it need
not necessarily give alarm to the numerous parties
who are sensitively alive to the danger of any dis-
turbance of the balance of the constitution and of
the settled institutions of the country. At former
periods propositions had been made to reduce the
county franchise to £lO, and the borough franchise
to £6, clear annual value. The £6 borough fran-
chise, proposed by Lord Palmerston's Govern-
ment, would have enfranchised 260,000 persons;
the £5 rating franchise, of 1852, would have en-
franchised 230,000 ; while the £7 franchise of the
present Government would only have enfran-
chised 156,000. It appeared to me that our
bill, therefore, afforded a fair compromise of
the question, and, as such, it was accepted
by the unrepresented people ; but, on the other
hand, those who had objected to the bill of 1860,
because it was too great a measure, were not satis-
fied with our bill, although it enfranchised 100,000
fewer persons. I will not enter into the mode
the bill was received by the House of Commons,
and the various amendments introduced to obstruct
its progress. But feeling, I may say, that the
course has been such as hardly to keep the promise
made by the noble earl opposite that he would not
countenance any attempt factiously to oppose the
bill which the Government might bring in, but that
he would treat it in a fair and straightforward man-
ner—if the noble earl had kept entirely aloof from
the members of his pthty in the House of Commons,
I should have had nothing to say but to lament that
they did not follow his advice ; but I have constantly
seen in the papers that there were meetings at the
house of the noble marquis opposite (the Marquis of
Salisbury), and that the Earl of Derby always ad-
dressed them atsome length. I do not wish'to enter
into the particulars of the advice which the noble
earl gave to those who listened to him with the de-
ference due to aperson of his authority ; but when the
noble earl spoke to them of straightforwardness they
must have been bad pupils, or he did not give them
those lessons on straightforwardness which he pro-
mised to do. The fact is, that this bill was metwith
every species of opposition ; sometimes by surprise,
but always in the most unfriendly spirit. The result
was, that the second reading was carried, in fact,
by a majority of only five votes. Many subsequent
divisions took place on points of detail. At last it
came to a question on which there was a majority of
11 against the Government. That division was, her
Majesty seems to have heard, a division on a point
of detail. If it had been merely on a point of detail
as between rating and rental the Government might
easily have accepted it ; but coming after so many
attempts to obstruct the bill and to defeat
it, the Government could not but id
that it was hopeless for them to Pursue
the attempt to pass the measure. They therefore
determined to tender their resignation, considering
that the division on Lord Dunkellin's amendment
was fatal to the bill. I cannot think that we pro-
posed too great an extension of the suffrage to the
working classes. We considered, at all events, that
the franchises we proposed for boroughs and coun-
ties were vital points in the measure we introduced,
and seeing, therefore, that the question was one of
detail, and that it was impossible to set right what
had been done by other amendments, we determined
to tender our resignation. The other ground on
which her Majesty declined to accept our resigna-
tion without further consideration was the present
state of foreign •
affazs. But, whatever may be the
inconvenience of a change of Government under
these circumstances, we thought that this would not
justify us in forfeiting the pledge which we had given
to stand or fall by the bill. I have only, further, to
make two remarks. I trust that whatever Parlia-
ment may do, they will fairly consider
ttheeelraiigmhst of
f
the working classes to be admitted to
voting. It is especially our duty to do this
on
this
present time.s
We may all remember what an effect
that which took place in France in 1830 had n
country in that year. Now we have seen but very
lately a Minister in Germany proposing the election
of a Parliament for Germany by universal suffrage,
while it must be recollected that the same suffrage
prevails in the United States and in our colonies.
Depend on it, these things are not unimportant. *lf
you grant the suffrage freely and generously, the
people of this country, attached as they are to its
institutions, would rather accept the boon from you
than look to foreign example. But if your lord-
ships alienate them from the Crown and the aris-
tocracy, depend on it that serious evils may arise.
We have made the attempt, unfortunately, it seems,

but sincerely and anxiously, to perform the duties
of reconciling that which is due to the constitution
of the country with that which is due to the grow-
ing intelligence, the increasing wealth, and the
manifest forbearance, virtue, and order of the people.
This attempt has failed, but our object is one which
others should aim at. Depend upon it, however,
that no agreement between political parties will
produce a lasting state of things in regard to
the representation of the people in the House of
Commons. You must work in the open day, before
the eyes of the people, and convince them that you
are acting honestly in regard to them. The noble
lord concluded by expressing his gratitude to her
Majesty for the confidence she had reposed in him,
and by bearing testimony to the sedulous manner in
which she discharged the duties of her high station.
The Earl of DERBY—I most anxiously hoped
on entering your lordships' house that I should be
able to listen with respectful attention to whatever
the noble earl might say with respect to the grounds
for the resignation of her Majesty's Ministers; and
although the noble earl has certainly alluded to every
possible phase of the subject, and also to some sub-
jects which were hardly matters for Parliamentary
discussion, I do not intend to follow him into any
one of them. I do not intend to discuss the merits
of the Reform Bill ; I do not intend to discuss the
judgment of her Majesty's Ministers with regard to
the manner in which they have dealt with that bill ;
I should have refrained altogether from challenging
what the noble earl said in defence of the course
pursued by himself and his colleagues, had he not
thought fit in the course of his remarks to speak
with considerable freedom of matters personal to
myself and party. (Hear.) The noble earl has
thought fit to impugn the course which has been
pursued by the House of Commons acting, as he
assumes, upon my suggestion. (Hear.) Now, my
lords, these are the charges to which I cannot listen
in silence, more especially when the occasion upon
which these charges are made is of such importance
as the present. (Hear, hear.) I concur with the
noble earl that a change of Government from what-
ever
hands into whatever hands, at a period when
there is so much disturbance abroad, and when
there are so many important subjects to consider,
is and must be a misfortune ; but I venture to tell
the noble earl that the change which it appears we
have to contemplate is not the fault of those who
are opposed to him, but the fault of her Majesty's
Ministers themselves. (Cheers.) The noble earl
has said that at the commencement of the Session
I assured him no underhanded dealing would
be resorted to in opposition to it. What I really
said was, that if the bill should prove to be a rea-
sonable and moderate one, such as the Con-
servative party could honourably and consistently
with their conscientious convictions accept as a set-
tlement of a question which it was desirable to come
to some conclusion upon, I would exert what influ-
ence I had with the Conservative members of Par-
liament to the end that the noble earl should meet
with no unfair opposition ; on the contrary, I said
I should be happy to further the progress of such a
bill. I say that pledge has been kept, and kept to
the letter ; and when the noble earl talks about
private meetings of members of the Opposition, and
speaking of such meetings as utterly unusual, makes
it matter of complaint that the Opposition should
meet and consider measures which the Government
had submitted to Parliament, and receive an opinion
upon them from those in whom the Opposition have
confidence, I say the noble earl was at a loss tofind
something wherewith to charge his political oppo-
nents. (Cheers.) My lords, I have upon several
occasions met those with whom I have had the
honour of acting politically for 20 years past, and,
to the best of my judgment, I have expressed such
opinions and given them such advice as I conscien-
tiously believed to be sound with regard to the
measures submitted to them in Parliament ; and as
long as I have the honour of being associated in
public life with, and enjoying the confidence of, a
party, I shall deem it one of the fundamental duties
imposed upon me by that position not to leave the
party, but to offer its members every means for con-
sultation, and frankly and fairly to bring before
them, for the purpose of inducing political co-ope-
ration, the views which I entertain. (Cheers.) The
noble earl spoke of the advice which he supposes I
gave to the members of the Opposition. Idon'tknow
how he became possessed of his information as to
advice I gave. I don't know whether the noble earl
employed any person to ascertain what took place at
those meetings; but in whatever way he obtained his
information, I say I never advised those with whom
, I have had the honour of consulting to meet this
bill with anything more than reasonable opposition.
The noble earl has spoken as if it had been his poli-
tical opponents who defeated the Government in
their intentions with respect to the Reform Bill ;
but as a matter of fact every amendment, or ob-
struction, as he pleases to term an amendment, has
been made not by his opponents, but by those whom
he reckoned in the ranks of his political supporters.
I will say to the noble lord at once that it is the in-
judicious and dictatorial course which has been pur-
sued by the Government (cheers) that has alienated
from him men who might have been consulted, men
who might have been led, but who could never have
been driven, and to that he owes the position in
which he now finds himself. (Hear, hear.) It is
not usual to refer to proceedings in the other house,
but as the noble- earl has made use of the phrase
" factious opposition," let me remind him what
were the amendments to which he referred. The
noble earl came down at the opening of Parliament
and announced to us that immediately after Lord
Palmerston's funeral, that is to say at the latter end
of October, her Majesty's Government sent out to
obtain statistical information upon which to found
a Reform Bill, and at the time that speech was made
that statistical information was not in the hands of
the Government. (Earl Russell had made a gesture
of dissent.) I wish to be corrected if I am in error,
but it was certainly stated in the Speech from the
Throne that when that information had been ob-
tained (hear, hear), it should be placed upon the
table of the house. When about a month of the
Session had expired the Government brought for-
ward a partial measure dealing with the extension
of the franchise, and with nothing else ; but giving
out that other important propositions would be
made in the future with regard to the representa-
tion of the people. A noble earl, who was a strong
partisan of the Government, and who has proved
his political opinions upon more than one occasion,
proposed that the Government bill should not be pro-
ceeded with until the house had before it a complete
measure of Reform. It was dismissed by a majority
of five only. Was that a very unreasonable de-
mand to make. (Hear.) When you are deal-
ing with a matter of such gravity—a matter which
affects the balance of the Constitution, which alters
the character of the House of Commons, and thus
alters its relation to this House, to the Throne, and
to the country say it is fair and reasonable, nay,
absolutely necessary,
that Parliament should see the
whole measure upon the subject before a sound
judgment can be formed with respect to any part
of it (cheers). And Her Majesty's Government
admitted the reasonableness of this view of the
case, for although they had expressesitheir determi-
nation to bring forward no Bill but the Franchise
Bill this Session, and gained the point by a ma..
jority of five—a small majority it must be admitted
—they consented to do that which six weeks be-
fore they had declared impossible for want of time;
and under pressure they brought forward a mea-
sure so crude, so unprogressive, and so meagre that
it was at once, I will not say
laughed out of the
House, but it was certainly never a matter of
serious discussion : its clauses and provisions have
been entirely condemned; and I am not using too
strong a word when I say it was ridiculed by every
person who considered it (cheers). The Govern-
ment, however, brought it forward hastily, in ac-
cordance with the demands of the friends of the
noble lord in the other House (hear, hear), and
the result of this haste was naturally displayed in
the crudeness and
absurdity of its provisions. The
next division was uthe enfranchising p
o
on the question as to whether
the disfranchising clauses
should be taken first,rand this question the
Government obtained,
majo-
rity that it has hitherto gained.
.A
largest
next made to incorporate i A motion was
n the Bill provisions
having for their object the pre • vention of bribery.

Upon the wisdom of incorporating such provisions
in a Bill of this character I will give no opinion,
but such a motion cannot certainly be regarded as
brought forward for the purpose of defeating the
measure. Her Majesty's Government on that
occasion suffered a defeat, but they.did not appear
to consider that defeat as one of sufficient im-
portance to induce them to alter their conduct
in any way. They contented themselves with
challenging the proposer to bring forward clauses in
committee for embodying his propositions. The next
question was, I think, the reduction of the county
franchise. I should say, however, that upon the
first reading of the first bill only was there a dis-
cussion. The second reading of that bill was passed
without any division, and upon the second reading
of the second bill, the Redistribution Bill, and upon
going into committee on the consolidated bill there
was neither discussion nor division. Nothing was
done to impede the action of the Government. You
speak about the county franchise ; but members of
the House of Commons must, I presume, be per-
mitted to exercise their judgment on these matters
without reference to the exigencies of any particular
Minister, however old a hand he may be at dealing
with a reform bill. (A laugh.) A £2O franchise
was suggested instead of the Government proposal
of £l4, and upon a motion for substituting a rating
for a rental qualification in the counties her Ma-
jesty's Government were successful. To the last
hour, indeed, that clause remained in the bill pre-
cisely in the form proposed by her Majesty's Go-
vernment. Now, unless you want to stifle debate
altogether, you cannot maintain that there was any
obstruction in the course that was adopted on that
occasion. (Cheers.) May not the Home of Com-
mons have its own deliberate opinion as to the rela-
tive merits of a rating or a rental qualification, and
as to the advisability of fixing the standard at £l4
or £2O, without at once being subjected to these
accusations ? How could the business of any Go-
vernment be carried on if every question raised is
to be turned into a vote of confidence, and if the
House of Commons is to be told that every detail
must be accepted in the form it is proposed, that it
must submit to have all the opinions of the Govern-
ment thrust down its throat, and that if any objec-
tion is offered to such a proceeding Parliament must
be prepared for the result? The noble lord talked a
great deal about the rights of the vi orking man, but
I have shown him that the county franchise was
agreed to in the form he proposed, and that the
question as to the amount of the borough franchise
was never discussed and never divided upon.
(Cheers.) When I say it was never discussed, Ido
not mean to say that it might not have been a fit
subject for discussion, but it never was discussed,
and when the House of Commons, by their vote,
determined upon accepting a rating instead of a
rental qualification, it was perfectly competent for
the Government to say that, as that proposition
would raise the franchise above what they intended
they wouldpropose a reduction in the figure. That
would have been a fair and an obvious course to
pursue ; but, after the defeat of the Government,
when 44 of their own friends voted in opposition, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer jumps up and says
that as the Government regard that clause as an
essential portion of the bill the vote was really one
of want of confidence, and notwithstanding the
inconvenience to the country, and, notwithstanding
the state of foreign affairs, we will involve you in
all the inconvenience attending a change of Govern-
ment because you dared to exercise your right of
judgment in this way. The members of the Go-
vernment then determined upon tendering their re-
signations, with the:intention, I trust, of inducing
the Crown to accept them, and not, I hope, intend-
ing those resignations to be fictitious. I pass over
the remainder of the noble earl's speech ; I will not
argue the question of Reform, and I will not even
deal in any way with the warnings which the noble
earl has uttered about conciliating the people of this
country and keeping them on good terms with the
Crown and with the aristocracy. I should not have
said anything at all had it not been for the per-
sonal charges made against my friends in the other
house. Those charges having, however, been made,
I should not have felt that I was performing my
duty either to myself or to my friends if I had not
risen for the purpose of repudiating them (Cheers.)
Lord GRANVILLE disputed the candour and
fairness of the opposition that had been offered to
the Government measure, pointing out that several
vital amendments had emanated from the Opposi-
tion side in the House of Commons.

Lord GREY agreed that after repeated declara-
tions the Government was bound to bring in a Re-
form Bill, but he condemned their doing so hastily
and without due deliberation. Such a measure
should have been prepared with a view to avoid ex-
citement of party feeling, and a measure simply
altering the franchise did not possess that character,
esspecially as it was believed to have been drawn up
and approved by Mr. Bright. After referring to
the denunciations passed upon the opponents of the
bill by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his pro-
vincial speeches, Lord Grey expressed his opinion
that the measure, as proposed to Parliament, was
crude and unfair, and that the Government had
acted unwisely in making their retention of office
dependent upon its passing.

Their lordships adjourned at 8 o'clock until
Thursday.

HOUSE OF COII.IMONS-LAST EVENING.

The SPEAKER took the chair at six o'clock.
The house was crowded in every part, and the
most noticeable feature previous to the commence-
ment of business was the entrance of Lord Dun-
kellin, who was received on his appearance with
loud cheers.

Between one and two thousand persons assembled
outside Westminster-hall this evening to witness
the arrival of the different members of Parliament.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer was loudly cheered
as he entered the house.
THE lIELSTONE ELECTION COMMITTEE.
The members chosen to try the merits of this
petition were called to the table to be sworn, when
Mr. WALPOLE said Mr. Hibbert, who had been
chosen as chairman, was too ill to attend. Dr.
M'Cann, the hon. gentleman's medical attendant,
was in waiting, and he begged to move that Dr.
M'Cann be called to the bar.

The motion was agreed to, and Dr. APCann ac-
cordingly appeared.
The SPEAKER, asked Dr. 11PCann when he last
saw Mr. Hibbert professionally.

Dr. M'CANN—On the 21st of the month. (Loud
laughter.)
The SPEAKER—In what state did you find
him ?

Dr. I\PCANN—He was taken exceedingly unwell
on his return from the Duke of Devonshire's party.
(Loud laughter.)
The SPEAKER—Is he now unable to attend to
his duties in the house ?
Dr. M'CANN—He is.
The SPEAKER—You may withdraw.
The swearing of the committee was then post-
poned until a future day.