The Sun.
London, England, 1832-08-10 00:00:00

CRIMINAL CODE.

The Earl of CHARLENIONT presented a petition from
certain Protestant Dissenters of Armagh, in favour of the
mitigation of the Criminal Code.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a similar petition
from Bishop Stortford.
Lord SEFTON presented a similar petition from Kings.
bridge.
Lord HOLLAND presented a similar petition from
the National Political Union.
THE SABBATH.

On the motion of the Bishop of LONDON, a Message
was sent to the Commons, requesting them to sommuni-
este to their Lordships the report of the Select Committee
on the observance of the SAbbath.

TITHES (IRELAND) BILL.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to move the second
reading of the Irish Tithe Bill. His Lordship having
stated that the Bill was founded upon a recommendation
of a Committee of their Lordships' House, as well as of
the House of Commons, proceeded to explain the objects
of the Bill, and the mode in which these objects were to
be carried into effect. If their Lordships consented to its
being read a second time this evening, he should propose
its committal for to-morrow.

The Marquis of WES ['MEATH regretted that the
Commutation Bill, in contemplation, had not been also
brought up ; for he feared that this Bill alone would not
satisfy Ireland of the sincerity of the Government or of
the House In their professions with regard to the abolition
of tithes. As this was the last opportunity of speaking
on Irish affairs, be could not help again asking
the Noble Lord opposite, whether the Government had
resolved upon any steps to put down the actual rebellion
which existed in Ireland ? In Westmeath alone, there
were 252 offences against the person and property in the
past year, but only 62 committals had taken place, and
out of those there had not been one conviction. In fact
all law was at an end. Was this state of things to continue,
or would Ministers bring in proper measures to restore
tranquillity?

a s:bdtbtGNfhtheoy
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those
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rersarynsenalMarquis,,inss
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Queen'ssaonei
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Much
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goodi the eefns t
tranquillityhqo oarfudeehsaittsli
tranquillity
aeni
nani dqaeoyju:esibsluhltetiryeahte,y:es
the measures by which Government had vindicated
oCounty,of
tthe
e u andnf
ur 3Tp ip p
insteade r s s e
the determination of the Government to coiiim
ipos.iiole to support the authority qL4tle eon:
dition of Ira,- ' -t-n make tta^l• • n At' • •
of endear
to quo-rine agitaii2 _ ‘valltiag there,
had ut.d. according to the real interest 4ey had in Ire-
__ , „ it would be much better off, for the was no coun.
try whose capabilities of internal itnproiment were so
great.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH deeded himself
from the imputatio■ of attacking his Majely's Govern-
ment, and thought the Noble Lord would vent certainly
repent of not having taken the advice of i-,actical
men in taking measures for preserving the peace of bland,
Earl GREY explained.
The Msrquis of WESTMEATH said, that he vros--
repeat what he had often said in the cop. se of the Session,
that Ireland required extraordinary remedies.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that one reason why
the Government had not called for new powers was, that
the Act corresponding with our Habeas Corpus Act was in
Ireland capable of being suspended by the Lord Lieutenant
of Ireland, in case of rebellion end invasion; and it was for
the executive there to decide upon what was rebellion.
He, for one, pl iced the most implicit confidence in the
judgment, ability, humanity, and, in case of need, the vigour
of the Noble Lot d at the head of the Government of
Ireland.
After a few words from the Duke of WELLINGTON, the
Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-rnor-
row.--Adjourned at 6 o'clock.

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HO USE OF COMMONS, Atioffsr 9.
of The
S
hear the Royal Assent given to several Bills, for which
BlackPEA ICIEz lold% on the summonsededtoth
see the Lords' Report. uptyeeUrs:hetor
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL brought up the Report of
eofHtohueseDoer
the Committee, with amendments, on the Marquis of Lon-
donderry's Estate Bill, which were read a second time.
Mr. SHAW presented petitions from the perish of St.
Bridget, Dublin, against the Grand Jury Assessments,
and from the attornies and solicitors of Ireland, praying
to be relieved from a certain tax that is levied upon them.
The lion. Member said the tax was so small in amount,
that its abolition would be not only not inconvenient to the
revenue, but it would be but just to the parties.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was aware that the tax
complained of was a matter for consideration whether it
was worth while to persist in collecting it.
Mr. SHAW then presented petition. from the congre-
gation of York-street Chapel, Dublin, complaining of the
neglect of the Lord's Day, particularly by the upper classes;
and also three petitions from parishes in the county of
Cork, against the Government plan of education in Ireland.
Mr. SADLER presented a petition from certain opera-
tives of Oldfield-row, Salford, in favour of the Regulation
of Labour in Factories Bill.

Mr. D. W. HARVEY moved for returns of the num-
ber of causes standing for trial in the Courts of King's
Bench, Common Pleas, and Exchequer, on the Ist of Aug.
in the present year, distinguishing the number of remanets,
and the time when they were first entered.—Agreed to.
Also a return of the number of causes and matters pend-
ing in the offices of each master in Hilary Term, 1825,
and the causes referred to each master in every subsequent
year, up to 1832, stating the number of general reports
made upon the saline.
Mr. HUME, in seconding the motion, wished to ask
his Learned Friend the Attorney-General, whether any of
the changes which had been stated by the Lord Chancel-
lor should be made in the expensive proceedings of those
parts of the Court of Chancery had taken place ? His
Hon. and Learned Friend would recollect that the Lord
Chancellor, in his examination before the Committee, had
stated that great delay and expense were incurred in the
Master's office, which he was determined to put an end to.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL coull not give the
Hon. Member any information on the subject; he knew
eloperfectlyirhadmadewell
that
severalboth otrhdeersp,rbeusetnwt
haantdthlaetee
effect
tdo
of them
he could not tell.
Mr. HARVEY presented a petition from a person
named 13ustin, who had filled the office of Chief Secretary
to the Governor of St. Lucia, praying the house to allow
him to be examined before the Slave Trade Committee for
the purpose of proving several criminal acts and cruel
practices that had taken place in that island.
Mr. WILKS presented a petition, most numerously
and respectably signed by persons of property in various
parts of the country, praying the House to adopt some
measures for the cultivation of the unoccupied Crown
Lands, in order to employ the poor.
Mr. SHAW had a petition to present from a person
named Moles, who complained that he had been dismissed
from the Irish Post office after 31 years' service, without
compensation. The petition in consequence of some in-
formality was withdrawn.
Mr. S. RICE said, the petitioner was a most respectable
man, but when the Irish Post-office was consolidated with
the London one, the Duke of Richmond looked out for those
who had other businesses to support them than their cfficial
one, to discharge them in preference to those who eutirely

depended upon their offices. It was found that Mr.
Moles was a practising attorney, and for the last three
years he had absented himself for long periods.—(Hear.)
upon those two grounds had he been selected to be die.
charged. With regard to the Treasury, they were not in
the habit of granting retiring allowances to any one unless
they were recommended by the department to which they
belonged, which was not the case here.
Mr. 11. HUGHES presented a petition from 600
tradesmen, praying for a law to abolish Sunday markets.
Colonel EVANS moved for returns of the number of
persons in the city and liberties of Westminster, who bad
paid their rates up to the 31st of July, distinguishing, as
far as possible, the number of females who were rated to
the poor's rate.—Ordered.
In answer to a question from the Gallant Colonel,
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was necessary for scot and lot
voters to pay rates previous to the 31st of July, the same
as if that had been the first day of election.
Mr. HUME could not let that opportunity pass with-
out expressing his deep regret that the Noble Lord oppo-
site (Althorp) had abandoned the Bill to extend the time
for the payment of rates, of which he had given notice.
The number of voters would be very small i❑ almost every
place, and it would not give satisfaction to the country.
Lord ALTHORP said he might certainly have pio-
ceeded with the Bill, and possibly have carried it, but as
it was opposed, when could he have done so ; not till
after the 20th of August, and then what would have been
the use of it ? Neither could he extend the time till
the Ist of September, for that would have put back
the lists of the overseers so far as to render it impossible
to have had a dissolution this year, and so have rendered
it necessary to have had another Session of the present
Parliament. He did not think that that would have given
satisfaction to the country.
Colonel SIBTHORPE was very glad to hear from that
King of Reformers, the Hon. Metnher for Middlesex, that
the detestable Bill (with which, thank God, lie had
nothing to do) would not give satisfaction to the country.
Colonel EVANS then moved for a series of returns
connected with the number of 101. houses rated in the
books, and the number of persons who had qualified.
Mr. Alderman VENABLES was anxious to assure the
Government that the country was very dissatisfied with
the time given them in which to pay their rates. The
number of electors would be very small compared to what
it ought to be.

Mr. ROBINSON said, that no doubt a great many
people would be disfranchised who had not paid their rates
and taxes. It was their own neglect, but it was probable
they were taken by surprise.
Lord ALTHORP said, one of the principles of
the Reform Bill was the payment of taxes and
rates, and that very clause was in the Bill from
December until it passed, so that very full cotice was
given, an it was not fitting that Parliament should be re-
quired to alter that principle, although persons might become
disqualified. He would have bad no objection to extend
the period for paying the taxes and rates to the 20th of
August, but it would have been impossible to extend it to
September without causing great delay in the registration,
and altering all the dates of the proceedings.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY, after the Noble Lord's candid
declaration, put it to him, whether it would not be neces-
sary very soon to reassemble Parliament. Much appre-
hension was entertained that the constituency of the
kingdom would be so narrowed that the system of no-
mination,de-
stroy, would still prevail. He did not, however, be-
which it was the object of the Bill to
lieve it would be narrowed to such an extent as
that. It would seem that much of this arose
from the supineness of the people. Reform was a very
esponsibility was
easy word to express, and people were misalen if they
thought that the Bill would do every tying of itself;
egretted that so much
..e that narrowed the coo-.
.certained, if possible, whether
but upon the people the great
tuency was oecasiontd by the
thrown to give effect to the Bill. He
(I..i.rlortil,,ey thbeeirctincapaity to pay rates and
supineness had been shown, bee'
stituency. But it shotdiastei
this narrowing of 0-`
of the present. motion.
, ands' showed that° it
neglectlafxte us e; ro
efzt.elli et
ifocer the Government to think of repealing
arose from incipacaty, it
would "Si,
taxes, and thereby relieve the people of such a
the antilhen. The Bill, in his opinion, should not only be
beida Bill to reform the Representation, but also a Bill to
ncrease the revenue, for it was a most ingenious way of
collecting the taxes. He could not reconcile to himself
the injustice of making the payment of taxes a necessary
qualification for a constituent. The qualification should
merely have been the occupation of a 104 house, without
requiring payment of rent and taxes.
Mr. C. WYNN regretted that the period for paving
the rates and taxes had been so short; and as for the full
notice that had been given, he was sure that. many people
could not understand the nature ' -1.- discussions
which took p'-
upon the Bi"

a third of t.

do so fro,
t ion fre

the new .

been paid, ►.
day of ►egistrat.
tion under the ohl
Si: GHARLES NV,
public bad condemned the,
its details was full of incongruni.—
lacer a few words from Mr. IVEYLAINa..
WAS agreed to.
Mr. V. SMITE! presented petitions from Chester
against suttees and slavery, and in favour of the new plan
of education in Ireland.

Mr. JEPHSON brought up the report of the Com-
mittee on the Irish Poet Roads.
CASE OF JOHN CAPES.

Mr. HUME said, as the Parliament was likely to break
up soon, he was anxious to bring forward the question of
the detention of John Capes by the authorities of Guernsey.
lie was a beadle of Saint Pancras, who was sent
to Guernsey with some paupers who were regularly passed,
as directed by Act of Parliament, and he bad been
seized by the authorities of that island while in the execu-
tion of his duty. He had intended to move an address to
his Majesty fur his liberation, but he understood
the Honourable the Under Secretary of State had
some communication to make which would render that
step unnecessary. He was anxious to know what that was,
for be understood the man was now confined in prison,
Mr. LAMB said he understood he was confined in
the prison, having been caught in attempting to escape.
The authorities of Guernsey were new in London, and he
was happy to say, from some communications he had had
with them, that they hid written over to the island foe
the man's discharge.
PETITION OF JOHN DARBY SHELLY.

Mr. HUME, in presenting a petition from Mr. John
Darby Shelly, complaining of the conduct of General
Darling, regretted that the Noble Lord, the Under Secre-
tary for the Colonies, was not yet in his seat.—(A laugh.)
There were some circumstances in this case which, whilst
lie could not approve on the part of the petitioner, yet left
no doubt in his mind of the arbitrary conduct of General
Darling. On the present occasion, he could not refrain
from adverting to a printed paper, lately circulated by this.
governor, of a most insidious and dangerous character, its.
fleeting upon the respectability of a gentleman, whose case,
was not long since brought under the consideration of the
House. It was most ungenerous and unjust to take such
measures to prevent inquiry, rather than seek by open and
honourable means to rebut the accusations brought against
him. But such a proceeding had failed with him, as he trust-
ed it would do with other Hon. Members, to shake the
high testimony which had been afforded of Mr. Stephen's
public and private character. With respect to himself, Ge-
neral Darling had thought proper to publish pamphlets, con-
taining contradictions to statements which he (Mr. Home)
had made in Parliament, of Governor Darling's conduct ;
and he should only say, that he had documents to prove,
that every assertion made against his statements was to-
'illy false. Although advised by many Members of tl.lO
House to notice these pamphlets as a breach of privileges
he was unwilling to treat them otherwise than wttll silent
contempt. As regarded the case which gave vise to the
present remarks, he would observe that he should revert
to it on a future occasion, when the whole conduct of Go-
vernor Darling should be brought forward. But he could
of sit down without expressing his satisfaction at the
present favourable prospects of the colonialists under the
Government of its new Governor, Major General Bourke ;
.nd the mode lie had adopted of making Public.the pro..
ceedings of the Council, must be gratifying to the Co-
lunists.
The petition was read and ordered to lie on the table.
BRIBERY AND CORRUPTION.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to move the Resolution
of which he had given notice. It would be of no use, he
was aware, during the present Session of Parliament, but
lie would move it as A Notice of his intuition the flex;

Session of Parliament. His Lordship accordingly moved
the following Resolution :—" That all persons who will
question any future return of Members to serve in Parlia-
ment, upon any allegation of bribery or corruption, and
who shall in their petition specifically al'ege any payment
of money, o'r other reward, to have been made by any
Member, or on his account, or with his privity, since the
time of such rettrit, in pursuance or in furtherance of
such b!ibery or CAlquption, may question the same at any
time with 28 dayi after the date of such payment; or if
this House be not sitting at the expiration of the said 28
days, then within Ile days after the day when the House
shall next meet."
Sir C. WETHERELL admitted that the object pro-
posed by the Noble Lord was a fair one as the subject of
an experiment, but he doubted its success. As the pro-
position was of so wide a nature, he should certainly enter
more into it in the next Session.

Mr. C. W. WYNN supported the Resolution, hut
thought it did not go far enough. He wished its operation
to extend over a longer period. He also suggested the
propriety of waking those who petitioned responsible.
Colonel SIBTHORPE objected to the terms of the
Resolution. The word reward was very indefinite. Ac-
cording to the Resolution at present, a Member might have
the charge of bribery hanging over him for the whole
seven years the Parliament continued.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL explained. He thought that
some words might be added to make a man responsible in
costs who presented a frivolous petition. With reference
to the objection of the Hon. and Gallant Member, the
olject of the resolution was to bring the question speedily
to issue, and guard against bribery being successful, by
withholding the reward• till the end of long perkds. The
rt solution would oblige the candidate to defer the payment
till the close of the Parliament.

After a few words from Mr. H. GURNEY, which were
not heard in the gallery, the resolution was agreed to.

REFORM BILE-PAYMENT OF RATES.

Colonel EVANS rose to call the attention of the Noble
Lords opposite again to the subject of the scot and lot voters,
who, as he had before stated, would be disfranchised by
the operation of the Reforn Bill, if they bad not paid their
rates. This subject was et such importance, and it was so
imperfectly understood even in the metropolis, that he must
solicit the attention of the Noble Lords to the subject. He
had before stated, and he understood, that the rule of dis-
franchising people unless they had paid their rates would
he extensive and injurious in its operation. All the people
who had not paid their rates up to the 20th of Ju'y,
would be disfranchised.—.(Lord. John Itutell said, if the
rates had been demanded.) Tbat requires explanation. With
respect to the resolution the Noble Lord had just moved, he
would inform him that the two restrictive clauses of the Bill
would operate very favourably for bribery. He knew from
good authority, that there were two places, in one of
which 1,1001., and in the other of which 9001., had been
already advanced, to pay up the rates of the people.
Something then should be done to counteract this, and
make the Reform Bill understood. According to the
papers on the table, the number of persons disfranchised
in Westminster and other places would be very great.
He had received some_ information from Lane ishire, which
showed how the Bid would operate there. For example,
he understood that in Manchester not above 750 persons
bad paid their rates ; in Ashton 74, at Bury 42, at Old-
ham 42, at Bolton 84, at Blackburn 78, at Rochdale 66,
at Salford 40, and in Warrington 38. That was rather
an alarming result, and it would he so fatal that it would
he enough to endanger the present Administration. He
hoped that something iv, uld be done to remedy it. That a
short sess4o of Parliament would be called to remedy it. All
he knew of tx,, subject he had learned only within a few days,
and it was not be supposed that the great mass of the
people engaged in,.heir pursuits could have learned it.
That might account , their not I aving troubled them-
selves about it. Now ti., they were aware of it, they
were much disappointed.
Bill would positively con-
vert many large towns into dos_
hess,,nghs. The Tories
would not suffer from it, and he
wonder that they
oppo-ed any altera,ion. The next Parka.._ instead of
being a reformed Parliament, would lie, he s
not s av it
offensively, a Tory Parliament, if the evils of tia
were
not remedied He thought this matter of grey imil
ort-
ance, because the people who had lately obtainedt
form itself by their awn exertions, might have recoutße-
the sime means. In fact, he had beard that the dis •
point/a:lent was so great that the people were again talking
of not paying the taxes, and of running upon the Bank for
gold. It would have the most disastrous effects, and
might even, from tl.eir unpopularity, destroy the press!nt,

sd—miisii

. .
.istrat ion. The lion. and Gallant Member concluded
by moving an atiiiress to his Majesty, that be will be
graciously pleated to prntogne the present, and convene
another short'session of Parlianient, to take into consider-
ation the' unexpected di►francbisernent prodUced by certain
restrictive tlaus,a Gr.- Ark for miles> 1" `• the represents-
.

!,) state

'lan. and
st,te-
i. He
jesty's
.rattly ,

to
4-`l.
which
,japort to
.cwt that he
ifiink that the
A, p the Ron.
,rre tiiiii;ell knew no,
d. nothing,. could Int.cer-
er tnelbilt of August.. Noi atelleving 1
_at ut ins disfranchisement,
.he could, not believe
4ti of the dissatisfaction. -He had always admitted
c registration clauses might at first preSent some
.i;ificulty in the working-. P should be remembered that
the peri.etixed by the Bill allowed three months to be in
arrears ; and he could not think, according to the Custom
of parishes, that it would be found -that so many people
were disfranchised.
The motion was then nevativeil without a division.
EXPENSES OF THE REFORM BILL.
Colonel SIBTHORPE moved for " A Return of the
expenses incurred relative to the Reform of Parliament
Bills precious to the passing of the same ;'distinuistring
the sums already paid and remaining to be paid, as far as
these can be ascertained, viz. for travelling and other ex-
penses of the commissioners and individuals employed in
the necessary information with regard to boundaries and
other returns; also, for stationery, printing, maps, plans,
anti the various incidental matters connected with the said
Acts."

Lord ALTHORP seconded the motion, ob%erving that
there should be no concealment on this subject, and
that it was most desirable the people should understand
the whole of the expenses incurred in carrying their
wishes into effect.
The Return was then ordered.
The House then went into a Committee on the usual
Sessional Addresses, and the several Resolutions being
agreed tot-the Report was ordered .to be received to-
morrow.