The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-02 00:00:00

1857 had also increased three and a half times. Between
1807 and 1832 our shipping increased about 15 per cent. ' • but
between 1832 and 1857, a considerable portion of that time
being a period of free trade, it had increased no less than 110
per cent. He hoped he had now satisfied the owners that it
was the interest of the shipowners to support free trade.
There was another branch of this subject to which he would
call attention, the number of British seamen and appren-
tices. In 1851 the number of British seamen in our mer-
chant service was 136,140 ; in 1857 there were 162,000.
Then with regard to apprentices, in 1836 there were 11,219,
and they went on increasing until 1848, when there were
34,858. In 1849 the law requiring a certain proportion of
apprentices to the number of seamen employed was repealed,
and in 1852 they had fallen off to 11,105. He did not think,
however, there were less boys employed now than formerly,
but they were employed by the voyage or by the year. He
would now compare the increase of British shipping with
foreign shipping. The shipping entered inwards—
In 1843, was—British shipping (tons) 3,545,000
Foreign
In 1850, was—British
Foreign
In 1857, was—British
If
Foreign

From these figures it appeared that the comparative increase
was in favour of foreign. shipping. But he did not think
British shipowners need be under any alarm, as during that
period British shipping had increased more than ever it
did before, and far more than it did during any similar
period of prcitection. And when they considered that
foreigners would always have had a right, under the
reciprocity treaties, to bring their own produce in their
own ships, it was a matter of surprise to him that
our shipping had increased at the rate it had done. In
1850 our imports of cotton amounted to 658 million. lbs. ;
whereas in 1858 it had grown to 1,025 million lbs.—an
immense increase. In 1857, of 8,684,000 cwts., 5,846,000
cwts. came from the United States, and it was quite clear
that under any circumstances the greater portion of any
article of commerce must come in the ships of the country
which produced it. In point of fact out of those 5,684,000
cwts. only 1,279,000 cwts. came in British bottoms. Again,
take breadstuffs. In 1857, out of 3,438,000 quarters of corn
imported into this country, 1,765,000 came from the United
States ; and of those only 58,000 were brought in British
bottoms.. Again, of 42,000,000 lbs. of stemmed and =-
stemmed tobacco, 25,000,000 lbs. came from the United
States; and of those only 700,000 lbs. were carried in
British ships. Such being the case he was really surprised
to find that British shipping had increased in the manner
it had. He hoped the time had for ever gone by when we
should think it was possible for us to gat rich by im-
poverishing our neighbours. The policy of free trade had
given each nation a direct interest in the prosperity of
those around them. It had been proposed to go back to
the principle of reciprocity ; but if we adoped that principle
we should not only be taking a retrograde step, but a step
fraught with suicidal results. For instance, the present
amount of our shipping was 5,232,000 tons entered inwatds,
and 5,874,000 tons cleared outwards. Now, the total
amount of tonnage employed under all flags in our colonial
trade was only 2,150,000 tons inwards, and 2,119,000 tons
entered outwards; so that if the principle of reciprocity
were everywhere established, more than 3,000,000 tons of
our shipping would have to be idle, the total trade of all
our colonies being that amount less than our trade with
foreign countries. (Hear.) Reciprocity was free trade in
every sense ; but unfortunately those who advocated reci-
procity in this house forgot that we had no power to legis-
late for other countries, or power to compel them to adopt
free trade. . There was an order in council provided by Sir
R. Peel's Act, but hitherto it had been a dead letter. When
the shipowners of this country were degrived of all protec-
tion, there remained certain special burdens which they had
had imposed upon them, because it was supposed they were
enabled to bear them by the advantages they derived from
protection ; but when the protective laws were swept away
those burdens, the creatures of protection, ought to have
been swept away also. Inotead of that, they still remained
and hindered the British shipowner in his progress to that
freedom which at present he only knew of in theory. He
(the hon. member) trusted that the Government would have
no objection to lay on the table any correspondence that
might have passed between this country and any
other Power since 1850 on the subject of the
burdens to which British ships were subjected by foreign
states. While, however, we continued to levy light dues
and harbour dues upon foreign shipping Ave could not
expect other nations to establish a real reciprocity. Why
should foreign ships pay a tax for the paving and lighting
of Newcastle, or for keeping in order the harbours of Rams-
gate and Dover, from which they could receive no benefit ?
But there were other weights which pressed heavily on the
British shipowners in the race of competition which they
are now forced to run. Thus was for instance the tax on
marine policies, which last year amounted to £380,000.
Again, there was the system of compulsory pilots. Those
whom he represented, and who were suffering under this
severe oppression, complained that they were compelled to
take pilots when the masters of their ships knew the coast
as well, or better, than any pilot they could take. It was
said that if the pilots were not certain of being engaged
their number would decrease, and the result would be pre-
judicial to the real interests of shipping. Such an argu-
ment he considered quite illusory. There were various
clauses in the Passenger Act and the Mercantile Marine
Act which afforded the shipping interest great cause of
complaint ; but, as his hon. friend the member for London
wished to make an addition on the subject to his motion,
he would not enter into that question; neither would he do
more than refer to the timber duties, which were a great
subject by themselves; because his hon. friend the member
for Bridport had given notice of a motion on the subject.
It was, however, quite obvious that when they admitted
the manufactured article in the shape of ships, it was unjust
to tax the raw material of which ships were made. Other
smaller grievances he preferred leaving to the shipping in-
terest to state for themselves. If the committee were ap-
pointed, if in consequence of its report the burdens to which
he had referred were repealed, and if the ports of other
countries were thrown open, he had no fear of British ship-
ping being able to maintain its position, and even to ad-
vance before all competitors. (Cheers.)
Mr. LIDDELL,. in seconding the motion, expressed his
gratification at seeing it proceed from the other side of the
house. He did not say that by way of taunt, but he had a
right to refer to it in proof of the reality of the hardships of
which he complained. As reference had been made to free
trade, he (Mr. Liddell) wished to state that he did not
desire the Government to exercise the power given them of
closing our ports by order in council to the ships of non-
reciprocating powers. Such an act could not be done with-
out the sanction of the house ; and, after the experience of
the last twelve years, no minister dare advocate such a
step. All that he wanted was to see pledges which had
been given redeemed, and the policy of free-trade really
carried out. The hon. gentleman had stated how our trade
was restricted at home, and he (Mr. Liddell) would proceed
to show how it was restricted abroad. The hon. gentleman
had stated that the shipping of some non-reciprocating na-
tions was worse off than our own. He (Mr. Liddell) thought
that no one could be a better witness of the fact than the
hon. gentleman, and he, therefore, took all that he had
said upon that point as absolutely proved. One point de-
serving of the attention of the Government was the regula-
tion made by the Government of the United States as to the
ports between St. Francisco and Fraser River. France,
our intimate ally, levied double the duties on goods im-
ported in British bottoms over those in French ships. In
some cases this acted as a prohibition ; in all it gave French
vessels a preference even in our own colonies. A vessel
called the Statesman, lay at Calcutta ten months, unable to
obtain a freight, owing to the presence of French ships in
the harbour, which obtained freights of 75f. per ton for
sugar, while the English ships could only get ss. The reason
of this was, that the French ships had the choice of both
the English and the French markets, and several of those
ships unloaded to London. In some cases the French.
Government levied fourteen times the amount on Eng-
lish ships which they did on their own ; aad in many
instances preference was given to American ships. Look-
ing at Spain, he found that that country excluded our
ships altogether from her ports, and Portugal robbed us
by means of wine duties. These were the two countries
for which we had made such enormous sacrifices.
(Hear, hear.) Holland levied double duties on our ships ;
and Belgium, while professing to reciprocate with us, con-
trived to place our trade at a disadvantage. He believed
that our own coasting trade had to a great extent been taken
out of the hands of British shipowners, and the result had
been the complete ruin of many families in the north. A
large shipowner, Mr. Chapman, had found it cheaper to
charter Swedish and Norwegian vessels, and leave his own
ships to deteriorate. Swedish and Norwegian captains
might be found in London every day purchasing second-
hand stores. Our own second-hand ships were greatly de-
teriorated in value ; and the Swedes and Norwegians were
purchasing them up. He would now show how foreigners
had thriven under this system by extracts from the trade
returns for eight years preceding and eight years succeed-
ing the repeal of the navigation laws. In the eight years
1842-49 our imports had increased £10,632,000, and our ex-
ports £76,244,000, showing a total increase of both of
£116,876,000. The tonnage of British ships had increased
in the same period 2,990,000 tons, and that of foreign ship-
ping 1,877,000 tons. In the eight years after the repeal of
the navigation laws our exports and imports had increased
£130,000,000, and the tonnage of British ships employed
4,024,000, while foreign tonnage had increased 5,149,000
tons. The result was, that while British tonnage had in-
creased from about six million and a half tons to 13,694,000
tons in the 16 years, foreign tonnage had increased in the
same period from 2,457,000 tons to 9,484,000 tons; so that
while British shipping had little more than doubled itself,
foreign shipping had been nearly quadrupled. That was a
very remarkable result. He knew that our trade had
thriven under the system ; but foreign shipping had in-
creased so much faster that we must soon be surpassed.
He could quite understand shipowners being rather
alarmed. He did not wish to take a gloomy view • but in
the face of these facts the house was bound to do all in their
power for the shipowner. Though the house pledged itself
when repealing the navigation laws, to remove all disadvan-
tages from the British shipowner, not a step had been taken
in that direction. He hoped the house would go into com-
mittee with a sincere desire to effect that object.
Mr. CRAWFORD moved the following addition to Mr.
Lindsay's motion :—" And of the following statutes, 9 and
10 Vic. c. 93, an Act for compensating the Families of Per-
sons killed by Accidents ; the Merchant Shipping Act,
1854 ; the Merchant Shipping Act Amendment Act, 1855 ;
the Passengers Act, 1855 ; and the Chinese Passengers Act,
1855." He said he had been a party to the representations
made by the shipowners, believing them to be well founded.
He should have been disposed to leave the question in Mr.
Lindsay's hands, but he thought that the inquiry he pro-
posed would hardly be sufficient. It was necessary to con-
sider the effect of recent legislation, and the obstructions
which shipowners suffered from Acts of Parliament. (Hear,
hear.) He could not but see that there existed a large
amount of distress among the shipping interest ; but from
what did it arise ? Undoubtedly there was competition,
but that competition had been sanctioned by the Legisla-
ture, and it did a great deal of good to consumers generally.
He attributed the distress principally to the want of trade;
the trade had been overclime by the shipowners themselves.
Mr. COLLIER, as the representative of a commercial
port, wished to second the amendment, and expressed his
satisfaction that there was to be an inquiry into the matter.
It had been clearly established by those who preceded him
that the shipping interest did labour under grievances. He
agreed with the hon. member for Northumberland, that
many grievances pressed upon that interest, and he only
differed from him as to the nature of the remedy. He (Mr.
Collier) would be disposed to deal in a more summary way
with the matter than the hon. member seemed inclined to
do. He thought the addition of his bon. friend was a de-
cided improvement, and ho concurred with him in the opi-
nion that over legislation was one of the grievances which
the shipping interest had to complain of. (Hear.)
Mr. HORSFALL said it was admitted that great distress
existed amongst the shipping interest, and that being so, the
natural course for the house to pursue was to appoint a com-
mittee to inquire into the cause of that distress, and if pos-
sible to suggest a remedy. He thought the amendment of
his hon. friend was an improvement- en the motion of tho
hon. member for Tynemouth ; but perhaps it would suit his
hon. friend's view if the word
"certain" were struck out
and the word " all" substituted for it. It was better not to
limit the inquiry, because the decision of the committee in
that case would be inconclusive and unsatisfactory. But he
thought it way thQ duty Q the h0u,59 t 9 grant 0 committed

to inquire whether a remedy might not be applied by the
removal of unnecessary restrictions ; if that were done the
shipping of this country would be able to compete with any
other. (Hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE would not detain the house long,
but as it had fallen to his lot to introduce some measures
which had deeply affected the shipping interest, he wished to
make some observations. It was exactly ten years since the
navigation laws hadbeen repealed, and he thought he might
congratulate the house on the complete refutation of the
dire forebodings then held out. During the last ten years
the amount of shipping had greatly increased, and so far
from the shipowners buying foreign vessels, he believed the
British builders had sold largely to foreign countries.
There never was a time at which British sailors were so fully
employed. If the navigation laws had not been repealed
this country would never have got possession of the great
carrying trade from Germany and Russia to other countries.
It was true that there had been a large increase in the num-
ber of foreign ships in British ports ; but even that had pro-
duced a good effect. Within the last 10 years there had been
a period of extraordinary prosperity in the shipping trade,
and but for the competition of foreigners, British owners
would have built largely, and a temporary prosperity would
have been succeeded by extreme depression. The admis-
sion of foreign shipping saved them from such variations
of fortune. He admitted that at this moment there was
a considerable amount of distress in the shipping inte-
rest, but it was not confined to the shipping of this
country. America had suffered quite as much. The return
showed that in America there were built in 1856 1,703 ships,
of 469,000 tons ; in 1857, 1,434 ships, of 378,000 tons ; but
in 1858, the number fell to 1,225, of 242,000 tons. He might
remind the house that when the navigation laws were re-
pealed, those who advocated the measure did not hold out
any certain hope that other nations would immediately fol-
low our multiple: The argument relied on was that they

would soon find it their interest to do so. The example had
since been followed to a great extent, although France,
Spain and Holland, so far as regards Java, still held out.
Nothing was to be done in this matter by direct applica-
tion; such steps only excited the suspicion and confirmed
the prejudices of other nations. In all these discussions
great stress had been laid on the case of the trade between
the United States and California. No doubt the United

States had acted shabbily in that instance. The trade
could not reasonably be called a coasting trade ; but still
there was this consolation, that the entire was of little im-
portance. In the past year it only amounted to 180,000
tons, and it would soon be all diverted to the route over the

Isthmus. He quite admitted that, after the repeal of the
navigation laws, it became the duty of the Government to
consider what relief it was possible to afford shipowners.
While he remained in office he succeeded in passing two
measures—one to reduce the light dues and the other to do
away with the merchant seamen's fund. His right hon.
friend (Mr. Cardwell) who succeeded him, had constantly
laboured with the same view, and the right hon. gentleman
opposite (Mr. Henley) had never ceased to direct his atten-
tion to the grievances which affected this great interest.
Some complaints had been made of the operation of the
Passengers Act. As regarded this question, it was not long
since his attention had been directed to the sufferings of
the coolies in their passage from the East to the West
Indies. The horrors of the middle passage were not worse
than what they endured. Of course he would wish to re-
lieve shipowners of any unnecessary restrictions, but com-
mon humanity required that such abuses, which disgraced
the name of England, should be put a stop to.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE said there might be burdens on the
shipping interest which it was desirable should be removed ;
but, on the other hand, the Government must guard them-
selves against the supposition that by consenting to an in-
quiry they pledged themselves to the concession of large
grants from the consolidated fund. The proposer of the mo-
tion thought it would be very proper for the Government to
take upon itself the payment of the light dues, which he
believed amounted to £300,000 a year. A similar suggestion
had been made respecting stamps on marine insurances,
amounting to £380,000 a year, and also with regard to the
timber duties, amounting, he believed, to about £600,000 a
year. Here, then, was something like £1,300,000 a year
which might be required from the consolidated fund if a
committee were granted in the terms of the motion. (Hear.)
Although the shipping interest had undoubtedly very great
claims upon the country, it must be remembered that there
was another side of the account, and that the Legislature
had already granted considerable advantages to the shipping
interest. For instance, the Government paid something
like £50,000 a year for pensions connected with the Mer-
chant Seamen's Fund, which Parliament took upon itself
) at a cost of at least half a million when it had become bank-
rupt. Then, again, the Government paid something like
£20,000 a year for the expense of sending home distressed
seamen—an object which, however important in itself, was
connected with the operations of commerce ; and, further,
there was a payment of something like £30,000 a year on
account of differential dues which were paid under treaties
of reciprocity. All these were matters to be considered;
and he hoped that, however anxious hon. members might
be to press the claims of the shipping interest, they would
not forget that there was a per contra in the account. There
were also important exemptions in favour of shipowners. For
instance, there was the enormous advantage referred to the
other night by the Solicitor- General, of the facilitywith which
they could transfer property of immense value. Their title
was made perfect by a special act of Parliament, and the ex-
pense of transferring a ship as the Great Eastern was, he be-
lieved, something like a shilling. (Hear, hear.) As re-
garded the light dues, a good deal had been done and was
being done to lighten their pressure. A Great reduction of
those dues had taken place under successive Governments.
He believed that his right hon. friend the member for Ox-
ford city reduced them by about £lOO,OOO ; his successor,
Lord Stanley of Alderley, by £70,000; and his right hon.
friend the member for Oxfordshire by about £35,000, this
last reduction taking effect from that day, so that there had
been a total reduction of something like £200,000 a year,
besides which a considerable number of new lighthouses
had been built, and a fund had been accumulated which
was sufficient to construct all the remaining ones that were
required. He thought it might fairly be said, then, that
the administration of the light dues by successive Govern-
ments had been exceedingly beneficial to the shipping inte-
rest, and although the Government could not consent to
the burden of the light dues being thrown on the consoli-
dated fund, because that fund arose from public taxation,
they were prepared to do everything in theirpower to lighten
those burdens which still pressed unduly on the shipping in-
terest. It had been remarked that in France the light dues
were paid out of the general taxation. He believed, however,
that in that country there were heavy tonnage dues for local
purposes which were paid into the Exchequer, and it would
perhaps be only fair to the shipping interest to consider
whether some such system as that might not advanta-
geously be adopted here. The hon. member for the City
of London (Mr. Crawford) proposed that, besides inquiring
with regard to the burdens of the shipping interest, the
committee should inquire into the operation of the statute
relating to the compensation to the families of persons
killed by accident, and into the operation of the two Mer-
chant Shipping Acts and of the Passengers Act. Those
were subjects which might be very properly and usefully
discussed before a select committee. The granting of com-
pensation in cases of accident was a matter which there
would be some difficulty in considering simply with re-
ference to the case of merchant shipping. The act in
question was, it must be remembered, very closely connected
with the general law of the country, and there might be
considerable difficulty in dealing with it, as it affected the
shipping interest, without touching upon its operation in
other cases, and especially in the case 'of railway accidents.
He threw this out merely as showing that the subject was
one which must be handled with caution, although it might
not be desirable to exclude it from the proposed inquiry.
With regard to the two Merchant Shipping Acts, which
had proved of great value and for the passing of which
great credit was due to his right hon. friend the member
for Oxford (Mr. Henley) it was impossible not to be struck
with the fact that the first of those acts, comprising 548
clauses, passed through a committee of that house in a single
night, the truth being that it could not have been passed at
all if the clauses had had to be considered ; and if there
were certain parts of the act which had been found to work
injuriously, it was but right that they should be considered
by a select committee with a view to an alteration. He
would not touch on the Passengers Act, chiefly because he
did not know anything about it—(laughter)—but he had
no doubt that it contained provisions which required to be
reconsidered. If the object of the proposed inquiry were
to get rid of ascertained grievances, the Government would
be happy to aid in its accomplishment. (Cheers.)
Mr. FENWICK thought that the substitution of the
word "all" for " some' in reference to the burthens on
shipping would prolong the inquiry, so that it would never
be brought to a termination.
Mr. CLAY rejoiced in the appointment of this committee,
which would show the house what were the burdens under
which the shippincrinterest rested.
Mr. INGHAM hoped that the shipping interest would
not again be expected to go through the humiliating task of
proving the injuries inflicted upon them by passing tolls.
That subject had already been fully entered upon.
Mr. RIDLEY reminded the house that many anomalies
arose under the present state of things. He would give the
house an instance—if a ship came home in ballast no light
dues were charged, but if she happened to carry a little
more provisions than she required, she was charged to the
full amount of the dues. These dues in fact fell upon the
consigner.

Mr. CARDWELL thought the limits of the reference
to this committee ought not to be too narrow, so that the
entire scope of grievances under which the shipping inte-
rest might be supposed to rest should be fully gone into. He
sincerely trusted the committee would industriously in-
quire into the whole subject, with a view to remove every
real grievance, and secure all possible advantages to our
shipowners in the competition which they had to sustain,
and he hoped that, if the peace of Europe should be pre-
served, the growth of our commerce at home and in the
East would bring them a return of prosperity.
Mr. HENLEY expressed his hope that the result of the
appointment of the committee would meet the expectations
of those most interested in the matter. He was glad the
committee was going to be appointed to examine into the
alleged grievances of so large and respectable a body of men.
Mr. ADAMS said the inquiry should not be confined to
sea-going ships, as the coasting trade also was suffering a
great deal.
Mr. WILSON admitted that the shipping trade was in
a state of considerable depression, but all other trades were
subject to such depressions, and he trusted and believed
that it would rapidly die away. (Hear.)
Mr. SPAIGHT had no hesitation in saying that the
working of the Passenger Act had been disastrous to the
shipping interest on the west coast of Ireland, and also to
the emigrants, who had been driven to obtain passages in
foreign vessels. All parties admitted that the shipping in-
terest was in a depressed condition, and he trusted the com-
mittee would devise some means of correcting such an un-
happy state of things.
Mr. LINDSAY said he had no objection to the alteration
which had been suggested in his motion by the substitution
of the word " all" for the word " certain. '
The motion, with the addition proposed by Mr. Craw-
ford, was then agreed to.