The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-15 00:00:00

other Roman Catholic dignitary, by the operation of which
such salute was rendered to him while carrying or accom-
panying the Host in public procession ?
Sir E. B. LYTTON said that there was no such order
as that referred to in existence emanating from this co-
try. There certainly was an order from Lord Hill ; but
there was nothing whatever in practice further than what
was calculated to afford that protection to the Roman Ca-
tholic religion which was stipulated for by the treaty under
the capitulation of Malta.
REPRESENTATION OF SCOTLAND.
Sir J. OGILVY asked the Lord Advocate whether he
was pr
epared to b • in a bill for amending the represen-
tation
rrhedepeople of Scotland., and, if se, when ; and if he
was prepared to bring in a bill this session for sheriff court
accommodation in Scotland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
a bill on the subject was under the consideration of the
Government. (Hear, hear.)
DUTY ON FIRE INSURANCE, &c.
Mr. HADFIELD asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether he intended to propose measures this session for the
reduction of the duty on fire insurances, and for the revi-
sion and amendment of the stamp acts, and the duties pay-
able under the same.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged
the hon. member to postpone his question until he had made
his financial statement. (A laugh.)
GOVERNMENT ADVERTISEMENTS IN NEWS-
PAPERS.—THE RECENT APPOINTMENT OF
A MASTER IN LUNACY.
Mr. G. CLIVE:—I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer whether it is the rale to insert Government adver-
tisements in those newspapers which enjoy the most exten-
sive circulation, or, if not, what other rule is adopted ?
There is another question which I desire to ask ; and, .in
order to enable me to state the circumstances out of which
it arises, it is necessary for me to move the adjournment of
the house until Thursday next. We have all heard out of
doora that it is proposed to confer the office of a master in
lunacy, which has recently become vacant, on a gentleman
Who is possessed of no legal experience, and who has been, I
believe, onlynominally called to the bar. I need not take up
the time of the house by comments on the importance of a
matter of this kind.. I have no wish to make an attack on
the hon. gentleman in question, or on the noble and learned
lord—
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY—I rise to order. The hon.
gentleman should make his motion for the adjournment of
the house.
The SPEAKER—The hon. gentleman has intimated his
intention of concluding with a motion.
Mr. CLIVE—It is, I hope, not necessary for me to disclaim
any intention of giving annoyance in any quarter, but the
appointment in question is of such a nature that it is neces-
sary that I should bring forward the subject at the earliest
possible moment, in the hope that there will yet be time to
have it cancelled. If the appomtment of master in lunacyhas-
been definitely made, it might be more convenient if I defer-
red my motion on the subject, but I have mentioned it now in
the hope that there is yet time to put a stop to it, and that the
noble and learned lord will be induced to reconsider the step
he has taken. I need not recall to the attention of the house
the numerous cases which occur in lunacy, in which persons
have been subjected to improper and unjust imprisonment,
and how often there have been cases of relations improperly
dealing with persons suffering from aberration of mind. I
myself have had some knowledge of such things as a coin-
missioner in binary, and my experience has shown me that
it is an office in the exercise of which in a variety of cases
you are called not only to visit, but to judge of the state of
mind of numerous persons, and that such a duty requires
much tact and knowledge of the subject matter with which
you have to deal. Legislation on the subject of lunacy has
been rife of late years, and that matter has been made the
subject of a number of statutes which regulate the systems
to be adopted in lunatic asylums, and every point connected
with the treatment of lunatics. By the first recent act on
the subject two commissioners in lunacy were appointed
with a liberal salary, and on them devolved the duty of in-
quiry into the cases of alleged lunatics, and presiding when
a jury was required. On the introduction of that act Lord
Lyndhurst, then Lord Chancellor, obtained the consent of
the Legislature to the appointment of the commissioners on
the solemn assurance that they would be properly chosen.
He said " that the remedy he proposed was the appoint-
meat of two permanent commissioners whose duties would
extend over town and country, and who would be men of
learning, ability, and distinction at the bar." (Hear.) I
have reason to suppose that the gentlemen appointed to
these offices after the passing of that act performed their
duties in.a manner to justify the statement of the noble and
learned lord. By a subsequent act of the present reign the
commissioners in lunacy were changed into masters, and
on them devolved every duty which had been performed by
the commissioners, and many of those that were formerly
carried on by the masters in chancery. Their duties were
onerous, but they had a salary of £2,000 a-year, with a re-
tiring pension of £1,200. (Hear.) Their duty consists not
only of visiting asylums, but also of conducting inquisitions
as to the state of mind of alleged lunatics, often without a
jury, and to preside when a jury is put into requisition. It
is their duty to moderate the speeches of counsel, and
they preside in cases when the most eminent at the bar
are employed before them. (Hear, hear.) They have
to go through and examine evidence sometimes extend-
ing over eight or ten years, and to take up the history of a
whole life and lay it before the jury—(hear, hear)—and on
them often, if not always, depends the question of the free-
dom or liberty of many persons. In recent cases, such as that
of Sir Henry Meux and Mr. Ruck, whose wife endeavoured
to prove him a lunatic and failed, the question has been
most important and difficult to decide. I will only allude to
Mrs. Cumming's case,tin which the present Lord Chancellor
held a brief. The question then is what are the qualifications
which the men ought to possess in order to fulfil all these
duties. What are the qualifications required for such duties,
and which such a salary as is attached to the office ought to
command. (Hear, hear.) We live in an age of examinations ;
in every department of the public service examinations pre-
vail, and now, even preparatory to a call to the bar, a rigid
examination is required. And yet this is the time chosen for
the appointment of a gentleman who has been only nominally
at the bar, who has never had the education of a lawyer or
practised in the profession in his life. (Hear, hear, and
cheers.) We can understand the difficulty in which a person
in the high position of the Lord Chancellor is placed. We
can suppose a model Lord Chancellor as he appears in the
distance to the vulgar mind, exercising all possible care and
wisdom, and with a sense of what is due to public justice in
his endeavours to fill such an office. Though it does not re-
quire an examination, we can imagine the Lord Chancellor
subjecting the candidate to an examination in his own mind,
and applying to him every test of his fitness for the office.
He would naturally inquire whether the candidate had any
knowledge of the subject matter with which he would have
to deal, whether he had had any experience of the manage-
ment of public hospitals or asylums—(hear, hear)—any
knowledge of law—(hear, hear)—any familiarity with the
law of evidence—(hear, hear)—and any practice in dealing
with juries, so as to enable him to preside effectually over the
tribunal to which he was to be appointed. (Hear, hear.) All
this might be supposed to pass through the mind of the Lord
Chancellor, and although he might see before him a long row
of Queen's counsel of high eminence in their profession, he
might well feel it difficult to decide who among them could
best fill Bush an office. What the existing Lord Chancellor
has done lam almost afraid to say. The office in question
has. been conferred upon a gentleman of whom it must be
said that unless he derives inspiration from his proximity,
to the woolsack, I know not what his qualifications are.
(Hear, hear, and cheers) I have not the honour of the
gentleman's acquaintance, but I am told that he is a most
agreeable gentleman, but as a lawyer he is not fitted for such
an office. The name of the gentleman is Mr. William Francis
Higgins, a near connection of the Lord Chancellor. The
. appointment has caused great dissatisfaction in the profes-
sion and out of doors. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) There
may be yet time to cancel it, and I hope that will be done.
If not I must leave the house to judge if the appointment
is such an one as ought to have been made. I am informed
that the gentleman in question has passed his whole life as
a clerk in the Colonial-office until September last, when he
was appointed a Registrar in Bankruptcy, and not content
with that, has now been promoted to the higher office to
which I have called the attention of the house. I beg to
ask the hon. gentleman, the Secretary for the Home De-

partment, whether or not Mr. William Francis Higgins
has been asppointed by the Lord Chancellor a master in
lunacy ? Hear, hear, and cheers.) I beg to move that
the house o adjourn to Thursday next.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The hon.
gentleman has put on the paper a question, and by that
means I have received notice of it, and I meant to have
asked my hon. friend, the Secretary to the Treasury, to
answer it. I know very little about the rules under which.
the Government advertisements are inserted in the news-
papers. I have never interfered, except to express an opi-
nion that a greater aura of the public money was expended
in that way than was advisable. (Hear, hear.) My hon.
friend has
But that he will give an answer to that
question. But the hon. entleman has put another ques-
tion to me, of which he hgad not given notice—(hear)—and
although he seemstohaveconsidered that the circumstances
to ' which it relates are of a very exigent character,
yet there was nothing to prevent the
hon. gentleman, if he
was unable to put a notice on the paper, at least
from giving
a private notice of his intention—(hear)—to int or to some
havei
friend of the Lord Chancellor, so that
there
iiii)ig ce tCln
an opportunity of obtaining
facts to which ho has referred. (Hear.) It has
alwayswith
beene
the custom in parliament to give notice when questions
ar
to be publicly asked; but when a personal question isrias ede,
I thought the rule was invariable that gentlemen, to which •
ever side of the house they belong, should not' make in-
quiries of this kind without notice. (Hear.) I can only say
that the statement of the hon. gentleman may or may not
be _accurate ; but I know nothing aboutknow nothing
of the gentleman or of the office to which the hon. me be?
refers, but if the hon. gentleman had given me notice I
could have made inquiries on the subject. I can only add
that having made his statement in an unusual manner it
will no doubt by some means or other—
(hear)—reach the
ears for which it is intended, and some reply will of co
urse
be made to it which I bust will be satisfactory to the hon.
gentleman.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE—Perhaps the house will allow me to
answer the first question put by the hon. gentleman to my
right hon. friend, and which I wish to answer publicly, as
the matter to which it refers entails l
.s a rule at the Treasry
a great burthen on the
department to which I belong.
i
to give to newspapers with the largestu circulation the
-
go-
vernment advertisements. There is an increasing difficulty
in the Treasury in this matter in consequence of the in-
creased number of newspapers and the decrease of oefm are not
the num-
ber of those which are stamped.
stamped, and a still greater number al::feannoyt remitted° through
the post. The rule at the Treasury is to revise the number of
papers on the government list for advertisements, and we
have selected what we thought the best for the purpose
without reference to politics—(hear)—and including several
portions of what is called the cheap press. This is the rule,
and I am anxious to state it publicly.
Mr. CLIVE—I beg to give notice that I shall repeat my
question on the subject of the appointment of a master in
lunacy to-morrow.
The motion for the adjournment of the house was then
withdrawn.

HIGHWAYS BILL.
Thj bllj Was read 0. secondas time, and ordered to be com-
mitted.

SAL.E OF POISONS BILL.
The second reading of this bill was postponed till Friday.
INDIAN FINANCE.—EAST INDIA LOAN.
Lord STANLEY then rose and said—Sir, I have to en-
treat the patience and forbearance of the house while I lay
before it
which i a statemre ent which, however important ma
be more important with refey be the
facts to t fers—and
rence I believe hardly any facts can
to the interests both of
India and of England—and however it may be treated, will,
I fear, be somewhat long and tedious. Still, of this I can
assure hon. gentlemen, that I have endeavoured, and shall
endeavour, to compress what I have to say within as
nar-
row a compass as is consistent with the necessities of clear
and full explanation. In the first instance, I think I had
better lay before you an outline of the financial state of In-
dia during the last two years as compared with the years
ediately preceding. The insurrection began, as we are
aware, in the month of May, 1857, At that time di,

financial year 1856-7 had just closed. What, then, was the tilting for it a system of excise. (Hear.) I have been in
condition of the finances of India at that date ? Taking the communication with the Government of India on this
sub-
exchanges
at 2s. to the rupee the revenue of 1856-7 was jest; but I must say that, although the object would justify
£33,303,000. The expenditure of that same year was
some temporary sacrifice, I do not think it an object of such
pressing necessity as to justify any permanent sacrifice of
£33,482,000; making a deficit of 5179,000. But it must be revenue. (Hear.) Taking the land revenue at about 60
noticed of this deficit—and the same remark applies to all the per cent. of the whole revenue of India, and taking the
.re.turn of 1857-8, from opium, as 20 per cent, of the
preceding years for some time back—that there had been laid bzge
remaining revenue, we ma
dy thus, without any material in-
out under the general head of public works a sum of
accuracy, consider the lap revenue and opium as supply-
-42,350,006. Now, in India, the term" public works" is corn- ing four-fifths of the whole of our Indian finance. The re-
prehensive, it includes public buildings, roads, and a great venuei from otdhejusournicesstlakwillen. together, yielded :;ieelhdriedflyin-18r0h0e
-variety of items of expenditure, many of which yield no salt
£1,442u,L an;
in 1850, 53,538,000 ; in 1006-7, X 4,443,798 ;
return in a direct form, but may be compared to that out-
in 1857-8, £3,785,782 ; and in 1858-9, £4,398,960. Miscel-
laneous items, including all not classed above, give :—ln
lay which, in England, a landholder has to make upon his
property. It is quite impossible to ascertain by any ac- 1800,. £132,000 ;in 1850, £1,340,000 ;in 1856-7, £3,000,000 ;
these sources of revenue the house will pardon
how much may be regarded as aninvestment. But assuming -
curate analysis how much of the Indian expenditure on and in 1857-8, £2,966,091. Considering the great va-
public works is an outlay in the strict sense of the word, and rie ty of
me if I refer them for a more detailed explanation to
on% rough estimate that credit may be taken for one-half
the annual accounts for India, in which they will be
found at length. (Hear, hear.) What I have said,
as remunerative investments, we shall have for the year however, showsiui in a.
Indian
summary what is the real and
1856.7 an apparent deficit of £179,000, but a real surplus— p tacticallandrevenue,cwltircla, exncetaillfrom telev.o F.t'
gllinhcave
increase of
makin g the deduction I have stated—of more than £1,200,000 ~
territory and an improvement of culture, causes,is comparatively
inelastic compared with our taxes at home. Next you have
That state of things, compared with the accounts of the
previous years, shows a considerable improvement. Of the the opium revenue, which, as I have shown, is somewhat
ten years preceding the year 1856-57, beginning with 1846- fluctuating and precarious, since it depends not only upon
eetpedewafg
the
sea.soensse, but also
Government,n upon
wctuntanevees
47, the first three and the last three show a deficit, and only theconn
the intermediate four exhibit a surplus. If Ido not make
myself intelligible, I hope that hon. gentlemen will ask for
adverted. These, two sources of revenue, as I have said,
are nearly four-fifths of the whole. The general result is,
any explanation which may be needed. (Hear, hear.) The that an increase of material prosperity in India does not
deficit of the year 1853-4 was £2,100,000; that of 1854-55 produce upon the revenue the same immediate result as in.
was £1,700,000; that of 1855-56 was exactly £1,000,000; England, where so many of your taxes rest upon the con-
while the deficit of 1856-57, as I have just stated, was sag power of the people. We all know here that if a
£170,000. We have, therefore, this result, that at the out- tax is taken off the revenue feels the effect in a few monthsin an increase of the Excise and Customs' returns. In India,
break of the mutiny the equilibrium between income and as I shall be able to show, although the amount of trade
expenditure had been very nearly restored ; and that, as I has enormously increased withinthe last 20 years, the effectsu
uponi thsmearieiveNe has
ear, been
-.5' rUetliadtlervllaye nativealihouevneot abent-s
must remind the house, with an average outlay of
£2,000,000 per annum on works of improvement. We now lite
which preceded ours many taxes existed that have never
come to consider what change has been produced in that been abolished. There were taxes on sale and purchase,
state of things by the disturbances of the last two yearn. transit duties, poll taxes, and taxes upon almost every action
The accounts for the year 1857-58 have not yet been re- of a man's life. In a majority of cases these taxes were
ceived. They will shortly arrive, and will be laid before the thatzednart?)ithetyobjeltiuotnihey
pruthazere unequal,
had, altogether,v an ad:
house in the month of Maynext. We have, however, a sketch vantage that is wanting in our system—namely, all
estimate for that year, 1857-58, which gives the revenue at classes paid more equally than they do at present. (Hear,
£31,544,000, exeficeitnaiintulrlina, whichln India w
ate may reckonL39,l2o,ooO, hear.) Under British administration large classes in India
malting
an estimated
s andtimatethde d
have escaped taxation altogether. The opium revenueis ne
with sufficient accuracy at £7,600,000. To that deficiency paid by foreigners, the land revenue by the cultivators of
must be added an extra expenditure u
3 soil. But except the duty on salt, which is in effect a
Po n troops and stores poll-tax, and a few Customs' duties, the mercantile classes
in England, which nearly reaches £1,500,000. We have, in India pay a, •ilatelnothinf to the revenue. Variouser
therefore, for the year 1857-58 a total estimated deficit plans . have
. 'a-le'- .•-; laid
ntdorenot
the Gymeriiiimene for
amounting in round numbers to as nearly as possible tell
it Pi°stunag verynew difficult and delicate matter to attempt
£9,000,000. I now proceed to the estimate for 1858-59, the to impose a new tax in England. But it is far more
financial year which will close on the 30th of April next. so in India than in England, because there is
The revenue as estimated for that year is £33,016,000, and no doubt that changes
or worse,
are attended with wiettlitlianBer,
the expenditure, including home charges of all descriptions,
ywehmetmheren aree Eiltbette
viewed, asothewoaerste; (51a foreign° sGovernemeont
Go-
is £45,629,000, making a deficit of £12,600,000. Add to that
necessarily must be, with jealousy and suspicion. What
the deficit of the previous year, which was £9,000,000, and is, perhaps, more important to consider is, that in India you
we have upon the two years since the mutiny began a total have not the same means of ascertaining what the public
defficiency amounting to £21,600,000. The outlay upon feeling really
its,
from
youhhaaved not the same facility for
es
public works during those two years was only £3,000,000,
drawing(Hear,) Aale.arge °lnnicrease of indirect would check
instead of £4,000,000, as it should have been according to that development which we all hope to see in India; while
the average of previous similar periods. The estimate of direct taxes unless imposed with great care and judgment
Indian expenditure for the year 1859-60 has not yet been in a country so vast as India, are very costly to collect and
.
received, and we have, therefore, only the comparatively llgsblecotonsaibdusetiino twheetavceollneucttionn. Teadkit:gdirteehet7htehagasl
small estimate for home charges, with which I shall deal into
Governmenet7'm India
ni by saying,v Yon shall lay on this or
more conveniently in a subsequent part of my statement. In that new tax." We have thought it right rather to confer
the calculations which I have submitted to the house no ac- with them; and I hope it may be possible, as the result of
count is taken of the compensation to be made for losses of our deliberations, to add considerably to our present in-
private property in the disturbances. There is, as many comeb
tutile e t ofn
feel I cann
°
additions hold
revenue be such as to
doutthehope that with these
hon, gentlemen are aware, a commission sitting in India to
approach the present rate of expenditure. Perhaps the
investigate that subject. I have applied officially to know house will allow me to read upon this subject an extract
when it is likely to report, and also, if possible, for an esti- from a financial despatch addressed to Lord Canning on the
mate of the amount that will be required to carry out its 19th of last month
recommendations ; but I have not as yet received any reply " A graver duty is., however, imposed on your Govern-
to that communication. The question is often put to those ment by thipcertainty which exists as to
caused
peedriodwhe
by then
who are concerned in Indian administration in this coon- the
etiy extraordinaryll c eor be materially diminished ; and by the
try, " Upon what principle do you intend to deal with these increase, from year to year, of the debt of India, which, if
claims for compensation F' I wish it were in my power to allowed to continue unchecked, cannot fail at an early
give to that question a satisfactory reply. It is, however, period to prove
the
ejurious
ttortoeurnucere,ltitinjiasee( no reason
oA
quite impossible to lay down any general rule for dealing doubtto
res that
Oug___, tin ordinary times, and by the exercise of a
with these claims until their amount and their nature are
the proper and judicious economy in the several departments,
better known than they are at present. The diffioultY of civil as well as military, to be ample for 'all purposes of
case is this, that you cannot, with any regard to justice, the Government, including a liberal outlay on
apply one rule to European claims and another to claims works of improvement. But the question of the
manner in which to meet the heavy disbursements
preferred by natives. There are many natives who have
been engaged in the service, or who have taken the part of of an unusual character, which, owing to late events,
the Government, who have fought with us, and who have will have to be defrayed in each year for some yearsto come, both here and in India, is of a wholly distinct
suffered loss by plunder in the same manner as Europeans nature. To that question it is now my duty to call your
have, and it is quite obvious that, whatever rule we lay earnest attention. It has often been asserted that the let-
down for dealing with those claims, no distinc- Positiont. of new taxes, a task of difficulty in any country, is
tion. can be drawn between the claims of native impracticable romlettne
land. Nevertheless,
where the revenue is principally
the exigencies of the
sufferers and those of European residents. m
%—ear, present time are so emergent that I wish the subject to
hear.) That is a circumstance which, of course, increases receive your mature consideration. It is manifestly ruinous
enormously both the amount of these claims and the dif- to continue a system of loans to meet the general expendi-
tM'A of the State. I need hardly say that, in any measure
ficulty of dealing with them. I regret that I can offer
which-
you may consider practicable, either for augmenting
no explanation upon this subject except in these general revenue or reducing charge, it is my anxious desire that no
terms. Against these claims for compensation there will, unnecessary check should be placed on the works of public
however, have to be set a considerable amount which will improvement which were in progress
_previously to the late
be derived from the forfeiture of land and pensions by those calamitousete dvisetutrsb:ritteandaic , i
mutiny Lye amelii gratified
ar tosuobs:
who have been leaders in the insurrection. lam sure the ended. It should ever be borne in mini that in partially
house will feel that it would be most inexpedient and most where the main ortion of the revenue is raised from the
impolitic, even in our present financial position, to attempt land, railways, canals, works of irrigation, and other under-
to press these compensations for the sake of revenue. takings which tend to raise the market valizetoth:oprosilaurcae
(Hear.) An amnesty has been declared, and we are bound of the soil,
ent f.mormereathsee foundationbest on w
to the incomeof te State, and that this
by the spirit as well as by the letter of that amnesty. result „n only bo obtained by a corresponding improve-
(Hear.) All the mercy ought to be shown which is consis- ment in the condition of the mesa of the people.
tent with the strict demands of justice ; and it must also be 41111 p positive instructions as to the exact mode of taxation
borne in mind that, even from the property which may be AINIFyet been sent out, probably the house will not think
legitimately placed in our hands, a large portion will pro- it expedient that I should now discuss as to the greater or
bably have to be deducted to meet the just claims of our less expediency of one or other plan which may be chosen.
(Hear, hear.) But if the state of India be that, with what-
native allies who have stood by us in this emergency. ever increase of revenue which may be possible, we cannot
(Hear, hear.) After sparing all who can put forward any hope to meet the present rate of expenditure, there is only
reasonable claim to be spared, and recompensing all who can one other resource to which we can look, and that is :dimi-
fairly claim recompense, I anticipate that there Will remain nished outlay. (Hear, hear.) There have appeared more
in the hands of the Indian Government some, perhaps a
arencritlz.greank lteerangrsohunewd fori3 ha Les
figures,
rreesdugadt etxhpeenpdiretusernei
considerable balance to meet the claims arising out of losses deficiency, enormous as it is, of £21,500,000, to which I
in the course of the mutiny. I propose now to examine as have referred, is wholly due to the extraordinary charges
briefly as I can one or two of the principal items from which caused by the insurrection. (Hear.) The military expenses
is derived the revenue of India. I need not tell the house of 1856-1857, which I take as an average year, as it did not
that the chief source of income in India is the land revenue. varyt very
ut exmpeuncshesfoerf rizish7.s_lrsfBor;htwArewasSltliise4aos(tlo.earThuit3.
In the returnfrom which I have taken the figures that lam the mutiny, were 518,212,000. The military expenses of
about to read the land revenue is coupled with two other the year 1858-1859, which was the second year of the
small taxes—the sayer and the abkara, or spirit duty—and mutiny, and the last of which we have any return, were
with some small subsidies from native states. lam unable estimatedhe at £22,98i01(8)04 thus showing an increase, in round
to separate these items, but the deduction to be made on itahe held'oof mniellitrairy e4eoon,soesooainonteholurize axlitiunendg
those accounts will be but small. The, figures which I that, there other losses which are distinctly traceable to the
shall submit to the house will show that the land revenue, insurrection. In 1857-1858 there was a loss of revenue by
with these small items thrown in, constitutes nearly 60 per non-collection of £3,600,000. In 1858-1859 there was a loss
sf
cent., or three-fifths, of the whole of the financial resources revenue of £775,000, and there was a loss of treasures
plundered of £1,275,000, making together £5,650,000. I
of India. That land revenue has grown with the growth
ask the house to listen to these figures because they show
of our territorial possessions. At the commencement of that too he two causes, the war expenses and the losses
the present century it amounted to £7,330,000. In the consequent upon the war, we may attribute a loss equal to
year 1810 it rose to' £13,000,000. It then appears to have £23,650,000. The deficit has only reached £21,600,000,and
remained stationary until 1840, when it was £13,580,000.
rtheveernefuoereeflLOZO,toooowarhadsvtehboeese extra
npaid out of the ordinary
charges. (Hear, hear.)
In 1850 it had risen to 17,395,000 ; and in 1856-57, the' I do not propose to ask the house to enter into the details
first year with which lam dealing, and that immediately of the civil expenses. Ido not believe that the civil to the mutiny, it had reached the amount of penses have varied much of late years. They have not un-
£19,080,000, being the largest amount which it has at any dergone any revision since the change of Government, and
time realised. In 1857-58, the first year of the disturb- it must be obvious to the house that whatever may therein
maces, the land revenue fell to £16,671,000; in 1858-59 it be effected that change cannot for the moment be produc-
rose again to £18,392,000. Now, sir, it must be observed tive of any considerable saving. I do, however, look for-
cf this item of revenue, that it is by its very nature sus- ward to a considerable future reduction of the civil expendi-
ceptible of only a slow and gradual rate of increase. In tare, and it may be operated by a double process. One pro-
those parts of India, as in Bengal, where a perpetual set- cess is that which for the last 20 years—ever since the estab
tlement exists, where the landowner is guaranteed against lishment of the uncovenanted service—has been going on to
being at any future time called upon to pay more to the a certain extent—namely, the substitution of cheap native
State than he contributes at present, it is obvious that agency for the comparatively costly agency of Europeans—
there can be no increase of revenue from this source except (hear, hear)—and the other process, which has not been so
in so far as new lands are brought into cultivation. The often adverted to, but nevertheless it is worth while to bear in
same state of things exists, though to a lesser degree, mind, is that as India is brought every year nearer to Eng-
where permanent settlements—that is, settlements for long land, as the inconveniences of distance and
_exile tend every
terms of years—have been introduced. Now, the tendency year to diminish—we all know how much less they are than
all over India at the present time is to favour long or per- they were 30 years ago—probably Europeans will be willing
manent settlements, as affording a greater amount of se- to serve in India at a lower rate of salary than at present. It
curity to the purchaser; and we must, therefore, consider is often made a subject of complaint that the salaries of
this branch of the revenue as being comparatively inelastic. the covenanted service are fixed at a very high rate. Ido
'The increase of which it is capable arises principally from not think it necessary or possible to deny the fact. I have
two causes. One cause of increase, which has been very no doubt that it is one of the best ;paid administrative ser-
active in times past, but of which we may hope there will vices in the world. (Hear.) Nor do I care to argue that
be no more just at present, is addition to the British terri- it may or may not bear revision; but this I do say, and I
tory, and consequent increase of the area over which the venture to dwell upon .the fact as of some importance, that
tax is levied. The other cause is the taking. into cultiva- ii• one has attempted to deal with this question who has
tion of lands hitherto waste. That process is likely consi- not been struck with the extreme difficulty of getting men derably to increase as railways and other means of coin- of high attainments and igood position at home to under-
munication open up the interior of the country—(hear, take the official labour in India. (Hear.) Even with ap-
hear)—and we have, therefore, in its results, a probable pointments in this well-paid civil service thrown open for
source of great wealth at some future time, but one which competition there has not been that eagerness to compete
no prudent financier can with any approach to certainty which might have been loooked for—certainly not the same
calculate upon becoming available withm a short time. eagerness which there would have been if the appointments
Next in importance to the land revenue is that derived had been of infinitely smaller value at home. (Hear.) In
from opium. The increase in the revenue derived from the one branch of the service, the medical establishment which
opium monopoly is very remarkable. At the beginning of is also open to competition,: at the last examination the
the century the revenue derived from opium was £372,000. number of candidates hardly exceeded the number of ap-
In the year 1810 it had amounted to £935,000. In 1830 it pointments, there being, I believe, 39 places and 42 candi-
was £1,500,000, and it remained in that state until 1840, dates. lam quite sure, and all those who have anything
when it was under £1,500,000. In 1850 it had risen to to do with India will confirm that which lam prepared to
£3,558,000—an enormous increase, which was attributable lay down as a general rule—namely, that you can hardly
to the new trade which had opened with China. In 1857 get professional men who are doing well in this country to
the opium revenue was £4,696,709. In 1857-8 it had risen go to India, unless they have the inducement ofa double re-
to Z 6,443,706, being an increase of £1,800,000 in a year. In muneration at least. If a test were wanted of the accuracy
1858-2 the revenue derived from this source had fallen to of that view I should referto a service entirely unconnected
£5,195,191. It is obvious that opium is a source of revenue with the Government—the service of the various railway
which varies with the season, with the demand that may companies established in India. Any one who regards the
happen to exist for the article, and with the plentifulness high civil salaries of India as intentionally extravagant had
or scarcity of the crop. The house will see how large a better look at the rate of remuneration being paid by these
revenue. is involved in the continuation of that trade and railway companies, and it will be found that the difference
will •
judge from the statements I have made how 'rally between the Indian and the English rates of remuneration is
the financial resources of India are affected by this te
source fully as great in that as in the Government service. (Hear,
possession of f (Hear.) The house are all aware that the hear.) If we can hardly hope for any great augmentation of
two separna)e- this
,ro °rim !monopoly has been objected to on Indian revenue, nor any large reduction of Indian ex-
confess I have always regarded as devoid of force, has been to this—how to keep in future years the military
is the intention of the Cement
made this evening, that it expenditure within its former limits. (Hear, hear.) It
trade in opium. (Hear.) al,„
ese Government legalise the is quite idle to enter into estimates or prospective cal-
to
ture of opium can therefore be trgument against the cul- culations on that subject, No plan can be framed which
system of importation into Cbinaage
Wdhhpon the contraband events occurring in India may not overthrow. But there
led. The other objection comes from ICh has so long pro- are some general consideration,s which encourage in my
ina ifavour of 'a total prohibition of the ttthose who argue mind the hope that when peace is again thoroughly re-
in British India. I only mention thsetiofonrotfhopium stforelitNnve sll..all
ebetilible to dso in India wii;tllo nreolgeer amount
ti3rea
pose of saying that, setting aside the opinionfiscal considereatrilourns- 'ln the fif•sYt place, ar nowfao necessary
epseriod has the militaryu
as-
of the present time, I regard
ofa
aargnment as unso a .
un in cendancy of England been as complete as at the present
theory as to what tne, allt I uovernnient really is time Within the limits of India there is no Power which
(Cheers.) I own that I nave never heard an l ' • '
the prohibition of 9 .
rum culture in Bengal thatp ea. for will quarrel with us. (Hear, hear.) Whether in India or
might this country, we have profited sufficiently by the experience
favour of the Mai
not equally be urged 111
be the abusene
Law iof the past few years not to feel inclined to. pursue that
England. (Cheers.) Whatever may of opium
greater than the abuseof spiritspolicy of annexation which has undoubtedly in a great de-
in India, it can hardly - be
S far from o i b Free been the cause of the present disaster. (Cheers.) There
in this country. (Hear, hoar.) °'t is used habit at a is another consideration which may lead us to look forward
poison to those who use it, I believe
.' to the
probably wuithY..'Prospective reduction of military expenses. The
but moderately by large classes in India, and
hear.) Ther British army in India is now only one portion of the entire
out any serious injury to their health. (Hear,
of the opiume complete,
of England. When telegraphic communication is
is, however, consequent upon the legalisation
h uldnot with the facilities which steam is giving every
traffic with China, one consideration of which we_i3_ should day, it is obvious that the distance is lessened, and that our
lose siht and that is the possibility that the Ile
to
Gthe- ho military resources are in a position to be brought to
bear u
vernment,
having now abandoned their objectio.ns
culture
before.P°(2Hany Indian disturbance much more rapidly than
introduction of opium into China, may legalise its So, again, in India itself. The great sys-
tem of railway.)
in China itself. (Hear, hear.) In that case the revenue
..
._ communication to which I shall
.presently
Ido advert, which at present is
arising from opium cannot fail to be affected. (Hear.) .
time bring togetherent only commenced, will in a short
not participate in the dbjections to the culture of opium in
there will then ) the entire peninsula, and the troops
India, but I confess it may be a question how far its culti-
t eousl Then, e efficient
• in many quarters almost simul-
vation ought to be kept as a monopoly in the hands of the an borne ein iailfriwe have to remember, and it is not
Government. It is impossible to deny that upon a general always
Indiacomposed of ,how
large a part of our dominions in
considerations the principle of that monopoly is open to
provues which have hardly had time
grave objections, and many of those who have considered to become consolidated and m.corporated under our rule,
of subject would begladtheir to the 'bil I
to see way possi i y Within the last 20 years we have added t
he Punjab, Scinde.
of doing
Na ore, and Oude, and it is obvious that a ' '
away with the Cloverzunent monopoly, and substi- Fegu, g
province

--- newly acquired by force requires a much larger garrison to asked when we speak of an average annual expenditure*of
defend it than it is likely to require 20 or 30 years after- £2,000,000 upon these works, what result have you to show ?
wards. I entertain the hope that the present increase of mili- In some degree the figures which I have quoted will supply
tary expenditure will not be of a permanent character. That an answer to, that question, but with regard to the much
hope is founded upon the prospect which we have of peace larger portion we are in the position of the cultivator at this
and tranquillity, upon the greater facility with which we period of the year—the seed is sown, but the crop is yet to
can bring our resources to bear, and upon the reduced come. The Government has done much itself in this respect,
amount of forces which will or ought to be required to keep and it has also encouraged private efforts. The works upon
in order those provinces which have become fairly consoli- the largest scale, and upon which the largest expenditure
dated into our system of government. But the house will has been incurred, are the railways. The length of lines
naturally wish to know what, according to the latest returns, sanctioned is 4,847 miles ; the length in course of construe-
is the present strength of our forces in India as compared with tion is 3,038 miles ; and the length opened for traffic is 559
a recent year. On the Ist of January, 1857, the European miles. In the course of the year, if our calculations are
troops in India were 45,522 ; by the last returns they were verified, there will be 747 additional miles opened ; in 1860,
91,590. The native troops on the Ist of January, 1857, 279 miles more ; in 1861, 296 miles more ; that is to say, if
were 232,224 ; by the last returns they were 243,956. So these calculations are verified, which I have no reason to
that the European forces in India have been doubled, and doubt, within three years from the present time more than
the native troops, notwithstanding all that has taken place, 3,100 miles of railway will be open. I think that this
have been of necessity rather augmented than diminished. state of things, showing as it does that for every mile of
But it is necessary to say that many thousands—l am not railway open there are six miles under construction,
prepared to state the precise number —who appear as part justifies the statement which I made to the house the other
of the native army are local levies, raised to meet the emer • night that we are now arrived just at that very point of
gency of the moment, and should not be considered as form- time when the outlay on these works is the greatest, and
ing a portion of our permanent force in India. (Hear, hear.) the return upon them is the least (Hear, hear. Now,
I come now to an important branch of my subject—the let us see what is the amount of liability incurred by
present state of the Indian debt. I may mention, for the the Government of India on account of railways. In the
sake of being intelligible, that when I speak of the Indian first place, the land is given by the Government, and
debt, I include not only the home debt of India, but all guarantees--usuallyat the rate of 5 per cent—are also given
debts bearing interest for which the revenues of India are to companies in almost all cases, the exceptions being very
liable. It is common to hear of the rapid increase of the few and to a trifling amount only. The total capital guaran-
Indian debt, and perhaps the house may not be aware that, teed is £39,731,000. Of that amount £19,221,000 has been
however great the increase of that debt absolutely con- paid up. We may say in round numbers, therefore, that the
sidered may be, yet relatively—which is a fair way of test- total amount of our liabilities for these guarantees is
ing it—to the amount of the revenue upon which it is a £40,000,000, and that one-half has been paid up; that the
charge, their has been up to the year 1856-7 noincrease what- total amount of interest for which we shall become liable is
ever since the beginning of the century. That can be shown £2,000,000, and theta present the interest paid is £1,000,000.
201.0001 n.
In
nBOlBO
10thteheddebebt twwasaa
£29,200,000,£16,600,000,
any
But I do not believe that those liabilities can be regarded in
sense as burdens upon the Government of India. (Hear.)
and the revenue £16,600,000. In 1820 the debt was Setting aside entirely the enormous indirect advantages
anbydathfeewrevpelainuner
£37,000,000, and the revenue £21,300,000. In 1830 the debt which will accrue to the Government from opening up the
was £45,000,000, and the revenue £29,900,000. In 1840 the country, I believe it will be found that on the working of the
debt was £33,800,000, and the revenue £19,500,000. That lines themselves there will be rather a gain than otherwise.
reduction of debt was due to the application of the commer- In this view lam fortified by Lord Dalhousie, the author of
cial assets ofthe Company. In 1850 the debt was £31,900,000 the railway system in India, who has recorded his opinion
and the revenue £25,800,000 ; while in 1856-7 the debt was that when once a line is finished the Government will pr0£55,000,000,
£55,000,000, and the revenue £33;300,000. The house will nably not in any case be called upon to pay interest upon
see that only once in all that series of years has the debt ex- any of these guarantees—that is to say, his estimate is the t
seeded the income of two years. It was below the revenue in every case the profit upon these lines will exceed 5 per
of two years at the beginning of the century ; it was below cent. I have endeavoured to ascertain what materials we
it in 1856-7; and only at one periosl—l think in 1850—it have for forming a conclusion upon the subject from the
had increased at a greater ratio than the revenue. It is re- experience we have. Those materials as yet are very scant.
markable to see, generally speaking, how nearly the pro- In the Bengal Presidency 121 miles of railway, which are
portions of the two remain the same. Since the late out- open from Calcutta to Raneegunge, pay 7 per cent. By led
debt, the state of affairs has become altered. The funded last returns the traffic upon that line has nearly doubled
debt, including every liability of which up to the resent since 1856, and taking that into consideration—although no
time we are aware, is £74,500,000. Of that amount the home doubt it is a good deal due to the conveyance of troops and
debt is £15,000,000, and there has been raised in India military stores—it bears out the opinion to which I have re-
L 59,500,000. The amount raised in India is held by natives
be
en In Bombay, upon 88 miles of railway which have
in the proportion of two-fifths to three-fifths held by Euro- been opened, the returns are 41 per cent. With respect to
peens. From the total amount of debt I have omitted a sum the Presidency of Madras Ido not know what the returns
of £7,000,000, because, as no claim can be made upon it, we are ; but it is fair to bear in mind that we are not at present
cannot consider it in any sense a charge:upon the revenue. I in a position to judge of what the receipts may ultimately be,
may advert here to a measure, sanction in the course of because when only a small section of a line is finished, and it
last year, for allowing the payment in England, by bills ends abruptly, perhaps in a jungle instead of having an im-
upon the Government of India, of the interest of the Indian portant town for its terminus, we cannot expect that the
debt. That measure was adopted at the instance of the traffic will be anything like what it will become when the
Chamber of Commerce in Calcutta, and of mercantile bodies line is finished from end to end and great inland markets
here. It was recommended to us in strong terms by the are by its means connected with the coast. On the East In-
Government of India, on the ground that it would tend dian lines the cost of constructionfhas averaged £11,500 per
to increase the value of these securities. Now, when that mile, which is about one-third of the English average ; but
measure is criticised it is common to say that it will have then the land has cost them nothing. When this system of
the effect of enabling the natives more readily to get rid of railway communication which is now being carried out shall
their liabilities, and inducing Europeans to take their place be completed, we shall have four great arterial lines of rail-
and that thus the Govenunent of India will lose the hold way, opening up the whole of India. One from Kurrachee
which it at present possesses upon the interest and fidelity to Hyderabad will connect the Indus with the sea, oening
of native capitalists. Ido not believe that, even as a matter up the Punjab and Central Asia to trade. Another will
of argument and theory, that criticism is well founded, descend from Lahore, through the North-West Provinces,
Whatever brings the competition of Europeans into the down to Calcutta, and on eastward to Dacca. A third, tra-
native market necessarily has the effect of raising the gene- versing the centre of the continent, will link Calcutta with
ral credit of the Government, and therefore of increasing Bombay; and a fourth will unite Madras and Bombay, and
the value of its securities to the natives who hold them. thus open up the entire south. (Hear, hear.) It is said that
(Hear, hear.) Nothing will induce natives to lend their it is more important for the Governmentof India to,complete
money freely to the Government so much as seeing that the undertakings which they have commenced than to em-
Englishmen resident in this country have confidence in their bark in new ones. But upon new works something, though
own securities, and the contrary opinion would undoubtedly not much, has been done. Last July a branch line was
produce distrust in the native mind. (Hear.) But, to turn sanctioned, connecting Bangalore with. Madras. Bangalore
from theory to what has actually happened, we find that, is an important military station ; it stands on high table
though the time during which this measure has been in land; the climate is healthy, and it opens large and attrac-
operation has been very limited, the proportion of native tive tracts to settlers. In November also a guarantee was
subscriptions, so far from diminishing, has rather increased, given for the formation of a line from Calcutta to Matlah, a
Between the 2d of June and the 21st of December last, a distance of only 25 miles, which will give to Calcutta a new
period of about seven months, the European subscriptions port, and will effect a considerable saving in time in getting
amounted to £3,229,000, and the native to £2,412,000, a to the sea. Surveys also are being commenced for trunk
good deal more than the general proportion which has lines through Oude and Rohilcund by the Oude Railway
hitherto existed.... viz., two-fifths for natives to three-fifths Company. A line from Coringa to Berar also has been
for Europeans, (Hear, hear.) I may here mention the projected, and is referred to the Government of India. It
total amount of debt incurred by the Government of India will open up the cotton districts, and the only objections to
since the Ist of May, 1857; in other words, since the out- it are that it will be a competing line with the navigation
break of the mutiny. There has been raised in India by of the Godavery, and that the district will be opened
the 51 per cent. loan £8,712,000, the home bond debt has to the Bombay side by another line. I mention these
produced £3,105,000, and the debenture loans £7,997,000, because they are the principal works which have been
giving a total of £19,814,000. Now, reverting from the pre- brought under the consideration of the Government for
sent to a period more remote, it is worth notice how mate- some time back, and to show that what could be done has
rially in the course of the present century the credit of the been done to facilitate the advance of works already in pro-
Indian Government has improved, In 1800, upon the gress. But any difficulty that there may be in that respect
comparatively small amount of debt which then existed, does not rest, I apprehend, with the Government, but with
the Government had to pay 81 per cent. The average the companies, who do not always find it easy to obtain the
amount now paid iipon the whole of the present debt is necessary funds for carrying on their works. With regard
little more than 4 per cent. (Hear, hear.) It ought to to other public works, not railways, I will mention the most
be remembered, when we are considering the question of important lately sanctioned :—First, the Madras Irrigation
the future solvency of the Indian Government, that its Company has received a guarantee of 5 per cent. upon
debt of £74,500,000 has been incurred in what has been £1,000,000; second, at Madras a pier has been ordered at
little else than one constant series of wars. (Hear, hear.) a cost of £103,000, which is to be completed in two and a-
There have been a Mahratta campaign, a Nepaulese war, half years • third, at Kurrachee works costing £140,000 are
and a Burmese war, which alone cose£ls,ooo,ooo. Then sanctioned' for improving harbours, the period for complet-
we had the Affghan expeditionovars in Scinde, the Pun- ing which is spread over three or more years; fourth, plans
jasab campaign, a second Burmese war, and now we have have been directed to be prepared for improving the harbour
the present insurrection. I shall not go into the question of Sedashevaghur, south of Goa, and connecting it with the
how far all of these wars were inevitable ; but I say country inland ; fifth, a plan for rendering the Godavery
that when we compare the amount of liability incurred navigable for a distance of 300 miles is referred to Madras ;
in India in consequence of that almost uninterrupted sue- and, sixth, there has been a considerable outlay upon small
cession of wars with the financial difficulties of almost any steam cargo-barges and tugs for the navigation of the Ganges
European State, our only wonder will be, not that the In- and Indus-15 miles in all. (Hear.) Ido not mention
dian debt has reached its present amount, but that it is not smaller undertakings, which, though of local importance,
a good deal larger. (Hear.) Lot me now call attention to are of no general interest; but there are two plans whichhave
a topic which ought to be considered in connexion with this been taken in hand by the Government which are of so im-
subject, the position of the English Exchequer in regard to portant a character that I am bound to call attention to
Indian debt. lam aware that the uniform policy of the them. One is the establishment of telegraphic communica-
Parliament and the Government of this country has been tion between thisecountry and India. After the failure of
to decline all responsibility in regard to the debt of India, the experiment with the Atlantic cable it was impossible
which has been held to be a charge only on the Indian Ex- not to feel that the undertaking presented a greater amount
chequer. (Hear, hear.) Dealing with the present state of of difficulty and a greater risk of failure than had been at
affairs, I may say at once that lam not going to recommend first anticipated. But, whatever the difficulty or the risk
any change in that policy. (Cheers.) I know well the of failure, still the object appeared to the Government to be'
alarm which any such proposition would create, and I know one of so much importance, and the saving that would be
the refusal which it would inevitably receive. (Hear,. hear.) effected in every way so great, that we thought it to be
But this is a question which will recur again and again, and our duty to incur that expenditure. A guarantee of 41
which will have to be considered in the future as well as in per cent. upon a capital of £BOO,OOO was accordingly
the present. Observing, then, that Ido not speak now with given, and operations were begun at once. lam told
any reference to Practical action at present, I would ask the that the cable is nearly ready, and the promoters anti-
house seriously to consider how far, looking at the fact that cipate that they will be able to lay it as far as Aden
more than £50,000,000 has been contributed by English by June next. Beyond Aden, where the line touches the
capitalists, it would be morally possible for this country southern coast of Arabia, which is inhabited by wild tribes,
altogether to repudiate the Indian debt without shaking its there is more risk, and the difficulties are considered
own credit ? (Hear, hear.) I would likewise ask the greater. We have, however, communicated with the Bora-
house to bear in mind, that if ever the time should come bay Government, and directed them to offer all the assist-
when the established policy in this respect should undergo ance in their power. But we do not rely upon a single line.
a change, and when a material guarantee should be given The Turkish Government have initiated a line of their own
for these liabilities, that guarantee would operate to reduce from Constantinople to Bussaret, and the Indian Govern-
the interest paid upon the Indian debt by not less than ment on its own account, or some private company, will
£750,000, or even £1,000,000, which, formed into a sinking undertake the completion of that line on to Kurrachee. In
fund, would go far to pay off the whole. At present India this way the risk of interruption will be less. The other
on the one hand is paying a great deal more in the way of scheme to which I have referred, and which has received
interest than with the assistance of this country she need the sanction of the Government, relates to the supply of
pay, and we on the other hand are apt to consider that as we civil engineers for the East India service. Hitherto civil
have nothing to do with it the amount is indifferent to us, engineering in India has been carried on exclusively in one
though after all it is a matter of doubt whether practically we of two ways. Either military engineers—themselves not
are so entirely free from all responsibility. I will ask the house always conversant with civil duties—have been taken from
now to consider what is the amount of burden to which their professional pursuits for that purpose, or engineers
the people of India and the people of England are subjected have been engaged and sent out from England, arriving in
by their debts. You may take two tests by which to India, for the first time in their lives, and having there,
ascertain that. You may. take first--and probably it is the owing to the difference of climate, of 'the supply of labour,
fairest test—the ratio which the: interest paid bears to.the and of material, a great deal to learn. It has been found ne-
total revenue. That interest in India is about £3,500,000 cessary too to pay these gentlemen at exceedingly high
on an income of £33,000,000, or little more than 10 per rates, because they had to be renumerated both for the work
cent. ; in England the proportion of interest on debt to the they did and tor the interruption of their professional career
gross revenue is neat two-fifths, or 40 per cent. This at home, Both these systems having been found defective, I
comparison is taken, too, at a most unfavourable time, when propose nove4o appoint a special engineering service. The
England has been enjoying an almost unbroken peace of 45 appointments will be competed for by young me throughr-
years, whereas in India there has been nothing but a series taro age. They will be required to have passed a
of wars. Looking at it in another light—the pressure on certain practical training here, and they will be sent to
the population—while the amountperhead onthe 130,000,000 India on a small salary to acquire further instruction in
of people included in the area of our Indian taxation their duties. They will then be regularly taken into Ge-
is not more than 145., in England it is £2B per head. Ido vernment employ for life, with pensions at the same rate,
not mean at all to compare the material resources of the probably, as are given to other =covenanted servants. I
two countries, but looking to the future as well as the pre- believe - that the effect of thii plan will be to
sent, wherever you have what you have in India, a fertile produce a considerable saving of expense, and certainly
soil and an industrious people, I say you have there the an increase of efficiency in that corpa. There is no
materials for future prosperity! (Hear, hear.) Therefore, doubt we shall be able to find work for them, and one
when we are told of the comparative poverty of the Indian advantage of the proposal; which will be shortly
people, it is a fair question to ask whether the continuance laid before the public, is that it will not involve on the part
of that comparative poverty is necessary. (Hear, hear.) I of the Government any permanent outlay ;it will not iit
now to show how far at the present time and for some volve the establishment of any college or institution, but it
time past the development of the material resources can be carried out
almost at a moment's notice, without
of India has proceeded, and I cannot but think that upon giving any one a ground of complaint or creag any per-
that subject the public mind is not well informed. (Hear, manent charge: lam not willing entirely to pasafrom this
hear.) I take the last 20 years, beginning from 1837, and I subject of public works without alluding, however briefly,
divide them into periods of five years each. Taking the to the amount ofreturn which has been obtained from some
aggregate imports and exports for that time, I find that in of a particular class of works—irrigation, which have been
the first period of five years ending 1842, the aggregate im- already completed in India. (Hear.)
ports into India were £43,500,000; in the next period, end- " The Celeroon aricah, opened in 1836-7, cost £21,700
mg 1847, £62,500,000 ; in the next period, ending 1852, the average net profit yearly, for 16 years was £25,700
£69,500,000 • and in the last period, ending 1857, about 120 Per cent. The Godavey aricah was opened in
£101,500,000. (Hear, hear.) That estimate is taken 1852-53; cost £203,000; caused increase of revenue by
before the commencement of the insurrection, so that £44,000 ; andin ait cannot be affected by the import of increased sup- value of £4OO, ."year of drought saved produce to the
plies for the large reinforcements of European troops which Ido not mention the Jurana nor the Ganges Canals, which
have lately been sent to that country. ' Taking next the have been opened about a year and a half, the amount of
aggregate exports from India, I find that they were in the profits from which is very great, but lam not in a position
five years ending 1842, £63,200,000; in the five years end- now to state it exactly. Taking the small examples, we
ins. 1847, £83,378,000; in the five years ending 1852, have one canal in Scinde, the Fordwak, of eight miles in
£91,000,000 ; - and in the five years ending 1857, length,
which cost £2,700, andpaid £5,000 in the first year.
£102,700,000. (Hear.) We have, therefore, these plain Another paid 58 per cent. of its cost the first year, and a
general results, that within the last 20 years the exports third, which cost £3,600, produced £5,000 in the five twelve
from India have nearly doubled, and the imports into months. (Hear, hear.) Of course, in quoting these in-
India have more than doubled._ I have not been able to stances, Ido not mean to say that
tll works of irrigation
ascertain as exactly as I could have wished the compare- will be equally productive. I have no doubt that in these
tive rate of increase in the exports and imports of the va- works money may be thrown away if they are not done in
rious European nations, but I believe lam not wrong in a proper manner; but these instances show—for they are not
saying that the doubling of them in 20 years is a greater
necessarily exceptional instances--that if the sites for such
be
ratio than that of any European nation except England works
judiciously selected, and the works themselves
i and France. (Hear, hear.) Take another indication of the be properly executed by engineers who understnd the
commercial progress of India—the tonnage of vessels en- country, there is a possibility ofsome returning so enormous
tered inwards and cleared outwards at the various ports. a profit as not only to cover their own cost but to repay the
I find that the aggregate tonnage in the five years ending expenses of others which may be less successful. I feel that
1842 was 10,700,000 e in the five years ending 1847 it lam trespassing upon the patience of the house—(cheers)—
was 12,700;000 ; in the five years ending 1852 it was but I cannot avoid in a statement such as lam now making
nearly 16,000,000, and in the five years ending 1857 it touching upon a question which is of hardly less interest
was just 19,000,000, showing an increase of 19 to 10, or and importance than that of public works, and which in an
nearly double in the 20. years.- (Hear, hear.) I take equal degree has a direct effect upon the financial resources
another test, not so general and comprehensive in cha- of Indian--I mean the question of the tenure of land in
ratter, but selected because it bears upon a ques- India—(hear, hear)—as applied to colonisation by Euro-
tion on which a great deal is said at present— peens and the occupation of land by natives of India. It
the amount of cotton sent from India to England. *ln is no light matter to attempt to deal, however" slightly, with
the five years ending 1842, the amount was 352,000,0001 b.; the customs-of more than 130,000,000 of people, those ma-
in the next five years, 358,000,0001 b. ;in the next five toms varying greatly in each presidency, varying
years, 494,000,0001 b. ; and in the five years ending 1857, to some extent in each district. All thosewho have any
863,000,0001 b., showing an increase of export in that very acquaintance with Indian affairs are familiar with the great
item of cotton about which so many complaints are made— systems of land- tenure which prevail in that country. There
lam not complaining of them, for no doubt their results is the zemindary system in Bengal, under which there is a
are very beneficial—of no less than sto 2. Taking a class of large landholders, with occupiers under them ; the
more limited and recent period, the annual average system in the North-West Provinces, under which the
increase of imports in the last five years into the Bengal whole community is responsible to the Government for the
Presidency has been £956,000, and of exports £445,000. tax; and the ryotwar system in Madras, where the tax is
During the last five years the annual average increase •f collected from the individual landholders. To attempt to
imports into the Bombay Presidency has been £959,000; alter any one of these systems, to change one for stnother,
of exports £518,000. Taking the town of Calcutta would be, I believe, an impossibility, or at least a fatal mis-
alone, I find that the imports there were in 1852-3 take. Whether they are good or bad, those systems of
£6,387,000, and in 1856-7 £13,959,000. The imports into tenure exist—they are rooted in native habits and ideas,
the town of Bombay have, increased from £7,000,000 in and what we have to do, I apprehend, is ,them, these
1852-3 to £11,632,000 in 1856-7. Summing up this part of tenures as they exist, or rather starting from them, to see
the case, and taking all the tests together. I find that the what is the utmost amount of security which they admit
trade of one capital has more 'than doubled in five years, of. There is one class of lands with which the State has
and that of the other increased by one-half. The cotton power to deal, and is not hampered by any arrangements
supply has increased at a ratio of 6 to 2, the tonnage and formerly existing. I mean lands which are unoccupied
the exports have nearly doubled, and the imports hale more and are claimed by the Indian Government. I believe the
than doubled. We are justified in saying, therefore, that house will feel that. it is most important to open these
the producing and mercantile interests of India have not lands to European colonisation. (Hear, hear.) The been so so entirely neglected as it has been sometimes the tent of them is more limited, I believe, than is generally
custom to assert. (Hear, hear.) From the question of past supposed, but in Assam, in the Sunderbund, in the Neil-
increase in trade, I come now to consider what is to be done gherries they do exist. Hitherto the custom of the Govern-
for the development of the future trade of India, and first ment in India has been to give allotments of
of all the extent to which and the system under which pub- upon easy terms for long periods, but those perio these lands
lie works are being carried on in India, We are often never extended to
perpetuity. The great object
have
of those

Europeans who apply for these lands we find to be to obtain
the fee simple; in fact, to possess them for ever. (Hear,
hear.) They are willing to pay a stun down, but they wish
to be free from future interference with their rights.
That subject was considered here, and the desire was
considered to be;reasonable, and, if the house will allow me,
I will read an extract from a despatch whichl will layupon
the table, dated December 22 :
"In such districts, where large tracts of unreclaimed
land are to be found absolutely at the disposal of the State,
rules have already been promulgated under which settlers
can obtain allotments on very easy conditions and for long
terms of years ; but in no case, I apprehend, extending to a
grant in perpetuity. In such cases I desire that you will
take such steps as may seem to you expedient for the pur..
pose of permitting grantees to commute the annual pay-
ments stipulated for under the rules (after a specified period
of rent-free occupancy) for a fixed sum per acre, to be paid
on possession of the grant. In all other respects, and par-
ticularly in regard to the conditions which provide for a
certain proportion of the land to be cleared and brought
under cultivation within specified periods, the rules will of
course remain unaltered."
That is to say, what we propose is that the tenant, after
certain improvements are made, may, upon the payment of
a-sum of money, become the absolute proprietor of the land.
(Hear, hear.) No doubt a new system will require careful
watching. There may be difficuties to overcome at first,
but I am confident that such a compliance with what is the
universal demand of Europeans who desire to settle in
India will lead to a great increase in the application of
British capital by giving greater permanence to their occu-
pations. (Hear.) In Bengal there exists a perpetual settle-
ment by which the landowners are free from all demands
except the payment of an annual sum. It such cases it is
quite clear that there can be no loss to the revenue of the
State if these annual payments are commuted for a sum
down, and that sum applied to the extinction of debt. The
effect of the commutation will be to give to the landholders
possession of the land for ever, free from all future charge.
In any arrangement of this kind it will be necessary that
existing sub-tenures and rights of all descriptions shall
be treated with consideration. We have pointed out, in
the despatch froth which I have already, quoted, to the
Indian Government, the advantage of this process. We
have pointed out the policy of giving a feeling and
position of ownership to those who are now, in some sense,
tenants of the State. We have indicated the wisdom of
giving them material interests in our rule, as by so doing
we shall give to the native landowners a direct interest in
the permanence of our rule—(hear)—because it is clear that
where a commutation of this kind has taken place and a
perpetual exemption from future taxation been given to the
landholder, he cannot reasonably expect that such immu-
nity so acquired will be respected by any Government
but that with which it has taken place. We have not gone
so far as to instruct the Government of India to carry-into
effect this process of commutation, but we have indicated
that our views were favourable to it, and invited their re-
specting it. In those parts where the settlement is not
perpetual the difficulties in the way of a commutation of
this kind are, although perhaps not insuperable, at least
much greater. Where the settlement is perpetual the
Government has no power to demand increased payments,
and so there will be difficulty in commuting the annual
payment ; but where the tenure is for 30 years, at the
end of which the State has the power to increase the
land-tax, we should, by allowing redemption, preclude
ourselves from gaining by future improvements. There
is one subject that was partially adverted to the other
night which deserves mention upon this occasion, because
it concerns land revenue—l mean the Enam inquiries going
on in India. I need scarcely tell the house what Enam
means. The word means bounty, and is a term applied to
grants of land, or other exemptions from land-tax, made by
our predecessors as acts of favour or rewards for good ser-
vice. These enams vary much as to the rights they con-
vey. Some are perpetual and unlimited!; others—the more
numerous class—are limited to a family, and sometimes
depend upon the performance of certain duties. By these
grants a large portion of the land revenue was alienated ;
but, besidekthat which was so alienated, there have been
many forgeries and frequent disputes of title, and thirty
years ago an inquiry was instituted into the subject. At
the time this inquiry was aommenced much less was
known by Europeans, official or unofficial, of the system of
land tenures in India than is now known. The, execution
of the work was often intrusted to officers of no great expe-
rience, and I do not deny that many harsh and many un-
wise acts were done. (Hear hear.) In Bombay, in 1843,
a commission was appointed for the purpose of bringing
these proceedings into something like a regular form, and of
expediting them by special machinery. Charges were made
last year before a committee of this house affecting the
manner in which the objects of that commission had been
carried out. Now, lam not about to enter into a vindica-
tion of the proceedings of the commission, but as those
charges have been publicly and extensively made against
the members of the commission, and have no doubt made
some impression on the public mind, I think it only right
to state that Colonel Cowper, who is at th© head of that
commission, denies in the most unqualified terms many of
the charges brought against him. He says that not merely
in matters of opinion, on which every one,'of course, has a
right to form an opinion, but that in matters of fact the
proceedings of the Bombay Commission have been very
greatly misrepresented. (Hear, hear.) I think it only right,
as he is a public officer and has no other means of denying
the charges, that this statement should be given to the
public. (Hear, hear.) At the same time, I wish to guard
myself against pronouncing any opinion on the question.
The evidence is not yet before me, and until it be it is im-
possible that I should do more than make the statement
which I have now made. I believe it has been said that
steps have been recently taken in this country to revise the
proceedings of the Bombay Commission. Now, that is not
the case. No instructions have been sent out from home
upon that subject, and no report has yet reached us. But
I believe it is true that steps are now being taken to arrange
something in the nature of a compromise between the Go-
vernment and the holders of these "enams," by which the
title to the lands will be confirmed upon the payment of a
moderate yearly sum. I have received this, as I wish the
house to receive it in an uno
upon fficial form ; and, therefore, I
cannot speak positively the matter, but I believe
the statement to be true. Now I come to the case of
Madras. Complaints were made against the late Court of
' Directors with respect to the despatch sent out by them
to institute an inquiry in the Presidency of Madras, but I
*submit that for that despatch I am as responsible as the
late Court of Directors. I stated to the house the other
night that on the appointment of Sir Charles Trevelyan as
• Governor of 'Madras the Government thought it, right to
inform him that the inquirywould be suspended, in order that
he might have an opportunity of dealing with the subjects
of inquiry as he thought best. I may now mention that I
have his authority for saying that when his appointment
took place I offered to him, if he thought the inquiry was
unjust, either to suspend it or to put an end to it altogether.
(Hear, hear.) No man in India, I believe, understands
better than Sir C. Trevelyan this complex subject of land
tenures. (Hear.) He was one of the earliest of those who
were engaged in inquiring into the subject. I believe the
inquiry can be placed in no better hands. Sir C. Trevelyan
without hesitation and without delay gave his opinion that
the inquiry ought to go on, but he said that care must
be taken to guard it from the abuses which have oc-
curred in former cases. He believes that to put an 'end
to it would be a mistake, and that if properly con-
ducted it would be the means of producing great benefit to
the people, and would give additional security to private
individuals. (Hear, hear.) I believe that there has been a
good deal of misrepresentation of the motives which have
led to setting on foot an inquiry of this kiud. The popular
notion is that the only object is to increase the revenue by
seizing the property of any man who happens to have a flaw
in his title. Now, the real fact is that the main object of
this inquiry is, not to improve the revenue—not to disturb
titles, but, on the contrary, to confirm them, whereby the
value of the land will be greatly enhanced. Every land-
owner, as matters now are, is liable to have his title ques-
tioned upon succession, and the value of his holding is
thereby depreciated. Our object is to give him what in this
country would be called a Parliamentary title—to give him
a title as to which no question or controversy can hereafter
arise. Further, a revenue survey and assessment of the
whole :presidency is at this sopment in progress, and until
that has been completed we cannot assess, as we know not
which land is free from assessment. What are you to do in
such a case ? If you postpone the survey you postpone the
period at which fixed assessments are levied. You merely
increase the difficulty by that postponement. Of course it is
easy to say you ought to confirm all the titles of all the
lands which are in " enam;" but obviously to confirm indis-
criminately every title which anybody might claim as being
an " enam" would be to hold out a premium to fraud. I
have heard of a paper being brought to a resumption officer
in the course of his inquiries by a person who represented ,
that it was a title to land which had been given by the King
of Delhi 200 years ago; but on examining that paper it was
found that it bole the mark of that very year, and was, in
fact, not six months old. (Hear, and laughter.) How many
frauds of that kind might be attempted if the suggestion to
which I have alluded were adopted. But, if you want to
confirm the titles justly and not indiscriminately, you must
inquire in some form or another. The real question is what pre-
cautions should be taken twainst arbitraryproceedings. That ime
a question which has been deeply considered, and one of
the first objects of the Governor of Madras will be to report
upon the best manner of dealing with it. I apprehend that
the general principle to be adopted should be this—to re-
spect absolutely undisturbed succession for a certain period
of years. In the next place, not in any case as a rule totally
to resume any " enam," even where the title is found to
have been originally acquired by fraud, unless the holder
has been a party to that fraud. Of course, where the holder
has been a party to that fraud he does not dewye airy con-

sideration, qr command any sympathy. Where the Title is
invalid not by any acts of the holder, that fact would pro-
bably form the natural basis for a compromise between the
holder and the Government. On the condition of a mode-
rate payment he could receive what would be in future a
title which could not be disturbed. Lastly, there is a ques.
tion which will have to be considered necessarily rather in
India than here. lam told that scarcely any of these
" enam" tenures are unconditional holdings. The great
majority are limited tenures—that is to say, they are held
subject to a contingent remainder to the Government in
certain cases, usually in case of failure of heirs male. That
sort of reversional claim is of very little value to the Go-
vernment, but at the same time it is a great annoyance
and a source of great discontent to the holders. (Hear,
hear.) I believe it will be in our power to confer great
benefit on the holders of these " enams" if these claims, so
comparatively worthless to us, and so annoying to them,
can be commuted for money. There is only one other
subject on the question of land tenures on which I will
touch briefly. The house is possibly aware that great
dissatisfaction has been produced in many parts of India
by the manner in which estates have been sold in conse-
quence of decrees of the Civil Court. The process, I
believe, is generally this :—An estate is there divided
among all the childten, or is held jointly by all of them.
By that process naturally a poorer class arises. They
tiered im at keeping up appearances ; they become encum-
; they bc‘row at an enormous rate of interest ; then
comes a suit, and the estate is sold. Tlv old proprietors
often in such cases become tenants, and thus occupying a
subordinate position among the people, they cause discon-
tent. It frequently happens that the new owner is a
stranger, who does not command the' sympathy of the
people. Great disturbances frequently arise on account of
the new owner being driven out by the people, who aro
attached to their old chiefs. In the late disturbances they
gave no help to the Government. Now, strictly speaking,
there is nothing in this change of proprietors beyond the or-
dinary process by which lands pass from those who are
poor to those who can buy ; but this cannot be regarded
entirely as a question of political economy. There is no
doubt that large and rapid changes have been extremely lin_
popular, and there is no doubt that they have weakened
the authority of the British Government. We have there-
fore recommended the Government of India .to consider
whether any restriction can be placed on this process. Two
methods have been suggested—one, that of limiting the
amount for which sales should take place, the other of em-
powering the persons against whom decrees for sale have
been made to appeal from the subordinate to a higher court.
This is delicate matter to deal with. Can it be said that on
principle it is wrong to permit a transfer from an encum-
bered proprietor to a wealthy purchaser ? But matters of
this kind are not entirely questions of strict political eco-
nomy ; we are bound to consult also the national feelings