The Sun.
London, England, 1832-06-15 00:00:00

GRAVESEND PIER BILL.

Lord WYNFORD moved that the Committee up stairs
on the Gravesend Pier Bill should be postponed from to-
morrow till the day following.
BILL FOR RENDERING UNNECESSARY THE
VACATING OF SEATS IN THE HOUSE OF
COMMONS BY MEMBERS ON THEIR AP-
POINTMENT TO CERTAIN MINISTERIAL OF-
FICES.

The Marquess of NORTHAMPTON moved the second
reading of the Bill for repealing so much of the Act of
Settlement passed in the reign of Queen Anne, as rendered
_ _

it necessary for Members of the House of Commons to
vacate their seats on being appointed to certain Ministerial
offices under the Crown. This measure was intimately
connected with the great measure of Reform which had
lately become the law of the land. This measure was
certainly one of very considerable importance, and he felt
the weight of the consideration, that it, to a certain extent,
interfered with the Act of Settlement. But he thought
that such a measure as this became highly expedient since
the settlement of the great question of Reform, and he
was happy that that question had been settled by the
Government which had brought in the measure. It was
certainly much better that the question should have bee❑
settled by the authors of the Reform Bill, who deemed the
measure expedient and necessary, than by others who were
adverse to it. At the same time, lie intended to have pro-
posed some Amendments in the Reform Bill, and this was
one of them, and he had been induced to postpone it only
on the understanding that it would be carried into effect
by a specific Bill. The arguments which bad been urged
in support of the expediency of Members vacating their
seats on their appointment to office appeared to him to
have very little weight, and then the inconvenience was
often very great. When a Member of the other House of
Parliament was appointed to a high Ministerial office, he
must often be in some degree ignorant of the details of
the office, and it might be of very great importance that
he should not be prevented, by attending a distant elec-
tion, from directing his immediate attention to these de-
tails. This inconvenience was often great even in the event
of the appointment of an individual to office, but the in-
convenience must be greatly increased on the change of an
entire administration. Then it might often happen that
matters of the very highest importance might require im-
mediate attention at the very moment when, by vacating
his seat and attending to his reelection, the newly-elected
Minister could not attend to these matters. Suppose, for
instance, that business of the utmost importance, in re-
spect of the foreign relations of the country, were depend-
ing at the time of the appointment of a new Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs—suppose that - matters of the
greatest importance in relation to our Colonial affairs were
depending at the time of the appointment of a new Colonial
Secretary ; and suppose that the Home Secretary were
changed at a moment of great excitement, such as took
place about three weeks ago—in all these cases it
was obvious that the necessity for vacating their
seats, and having themselves reelected, must be attended
not merely with inconvenience, but with serious danger.
This necessity might also interfere with the free choice of
the Crown, since some Members of the House of Conn•
mons, the most fit for office, might be induced to decline
accepting office on account of the necessity for vacating
their seats. The inconvenience to the public might also
be very great—more particularly at a period of dangerous
excitement. Suppose a new Administratio❑ were ap-
pointed, and that they should not be able to keep their
seats for a week after the reelection of those of the House
of Commons which formed part, then another Adminis-
tration must be appointed, and another vacating of seats
and reelection must take place. In this manner delay
after delay would take place, and the business of Govern-
ment might be suspended for weeks, even when an im-
portant measure like the Reform Bill was depending._.
Such was the mischief and inconvenience of the present
system, and that mischief and inconvenience would be
greatly increased under the operation of the Reform Bill.
As to the arguments against this alteration, it had been
said that this was a great constitutional provision, and
that it ought not to be infringed. But a great change
in the Constitutio❑ had been already made. Then it was
said that it was important that Members of the House
of Commons should be returned to their constituents on

taking office, because they became less independent.
In his opinion they not only did not become less indepen-
dent, but they became more independent, for instead of
followers of parties, they became leaders. Besides, when
the Members were originally elected, the electors must be
retty well aware whether their chosen representative was
likely to take a prominent part in the public councils.

Then it was said that vacating and reelection was a good
test and criterion of popularity. But the criterion was
absurd and fallacious, for popularity and unpopularity
with a particular set of electors was no criterion of general
popularity. This was already manifested in the case of
the President of the Board of Trade, and several other
cases which happened in the course of the last election.
That could never be a good criterion which so often led to
erroneous conclusions. The Bill was meant to apply to
certain great offices of State, and to the principal law
Offices, all which were set out in the Bill. There was
another office—that of the Secretary at War (or the Se-
cretary for Ireland), which had not been included in the
Bill, but which might be inserted in it in case it should
be deemed expedient.
The Duke of WELLINGTON admitted that it became
necessary to adopt some measure of this kind in conse-
quence of the passing of the Reform Bill. But this was
not the only measure that must be adopted, and it went
only half way towards effecting its own object. There
were a variety of points in reference to which new measures
must be adopted in consequence of the passing of the Re-
form Bill, but then they ought to be proposed as measures
of Government instead of being brought forward by in-
dividuals. The necessity for such measures arose from the
passing of the Reform Bill, and, therefore, they ought to
be introduced by the proposers of that measure, who ought
to be responsible for them. He admitted that the Noble
Marquess was right in his statement of the inconvenience
that attended the present system ; but then they ought to
proceedGnmoverweintht ;
p
caution and considerable deliberation before
they altered it; more especially when the alteration was
proposed to them by an individual unconnected with the
andart it
,outhge Acthttoboef csoentstilteletnreecuLt.thatntehirseßjlyll
went to repeal
thought that the Noble Marquess ought not to have pro-
posed the second reading of this Bill at a time when
the Minister was not in the House, and be hoped that
Bill, He
he would still consent to postpone the second reading
till there should be a full House, unless be should think
proper to abandon it altogether, and leave it to the Govern-
ment,was a
dm responsibleitted t forat themea
sures consequenceswere ne
necesthesary
ry
in this and many other points, in consequence of the pass-
ing
Refoßeform
of the Reform Bill ; but they ought to be left to the
Government.

The Earl of
RADNOR did not see the force of the
Noble Duke's argument, as to leaving this measure to the
Government, and as to the impropriety of proposing the
second reading in the absence of the Minister. But he
agreed with the Nuble Duke in the expediency of post-

i aing it, ; and, for his part, he thought it would be
inconvenience
to withdraw the Bill for the present. No great
mt,onvenienee had as yet been felt from the present system,
and it might be better to wait till inconvenience should
arise before they proceeded to NiTly remedies. Sufficient
foe the day was the evil thereof. Ile admitted that this
xv,s a measure of great importance, as interfering with the
Act of Settlement, and, therefore, it ou;ht to be narrrowly
and maturely considered He hoped the Noble Marquess
woald consent to postpone the second reading, if he did not
p‘;stpone it altogether. No great inconvenience had as yet
resulted from the present system ; and as to the instances
re erred to by the Noble Marquess, these had occurred at a
general election, to which the present measure had no
application.

The Marquess of LANSDOWNE—This topic had un-
4r.one considerable discussion in the Committee on the
11. firm Bill, while the Noble Duke was absent, and it
al !'eared to be the general opinion on both sides that it
era: expedient some such measure as the present ought to
he adopted. It had been suggested in the Committee by
tlr Noble Marquess, and he must do him the justice to
say that several Noble Lords had expressed an opinion that
a remedy should be applied, although not as part of the
Refirm Bill, but by a separate Bill. He at present gave
na opinion on the subject, but certainly this was a matter
of considerable delicacy and importance, as being con-
nected with a great constitutional question. The incon
vcnience of the present system, however, appeared to him
to be considerable, and therefore they would have to ba-
lance between the advantage of altering the system and
the danger of interfering with a great constitutional
enactment. In the mean time, he thought that it would
be expedient to postpone the second reading.
The Marquess of NORTHAMPTON said, that the
case of the election for Preston supported the view which
be had taken. As to the inconvenience of the time and

form in which he had brought forward the present pro-
position, he explained that he did himself think that it
might have been more conveniently made part of the Re-
form Bill, into which lie had intended to move the intro-
duction of a clause to the same effect as the Bill before
their Lordships. But in consequence of indisposition he
had been unable to give timely notice of that intention ;
and, therefore yielding to suggestions from both sides of
the House, he determined to bring forward his proposi-

tion in a separate Bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR must acknowledge that
nothing could be more fair or candid than the course which
the Noble Marquess had followed. At the same time he
could not help thinking that, although the principle of the
Bill might conveniently enough be discussed at a future
stage, and although the object of the Noble Marquess, at
present, was only to advance the Bill a step further, leav-
ing the discussion open for the Committee, yet he thought
that it would be the better course, in the present state of
the House, there being so few of their Lordships present,
to postpone the second reading to a future day. The ob-
ject of the Statute of Anne, which it was the wish of the
Noble Marquess to repeal, was to secure that the persons
whom, being Members of the other House of Parliament,
the Crown should choose for its servants or responsible
advisers, should be such that, on going again for the suf-
lc ages of their constituents, they would be found to retain
their confidence. Now, he (the Lord Chancellor) must
confess. that lie had not been able to give the subject so
much consideration that he could have formed a distinct
opinion as to the expediency or the inconvenience of that
Statute. He should hope, therefore, that the Noble Mar-
quess would consent to postpone his motion until after the
next week, as a great part of the intermediate time would
niost probably be occupied by the discussion of the Irish
Reform Bill. _ _ .

The Marquess of NORTHAMPTON said that it was
not his fault that so many Members of their Lordships'
House considered the Bill of so little importance that they
did not attend to discuss it. He bad given sufficient
notice that it was his intention to bring on the discussio❑
that evening. However, in accordance with the sugges-
tion of the Noble Lord upon the Woolsack, he would
move that the second reading of the Bill he postponed to
Monday week.
The motion haring been agreed to, the House adjourned
at Half-past Seven o'clock.