The Sun.
London, England, 1835-02-27 00:00:00

THE SUN', LONDON, FRIDAY, icIEBAITARV 271 1835.

and dispassionate legislation. It wanted something like
arm and good Government, by which good and whole-
some measures would be well considered and carried into
effect. So long as the Melbourne Cabinet continued
such a result could not be obtained. Excitement was neces-
sary to their existence ; if they had not excitement, they would
cease to live. There was excitement in every department,
and if that Ministry returned to office that excitement
would be resumed.—( Hear, hear.) The country wished
anxiously for a period of tranquillity in which measures
of safe legislation might be effected, for they had in their
minds the words of Mr. Wyndham—That he was not a wise man
who would unroof his house to add a story in the hurricane
season.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It was important that those
who were to reform our institutions should do so with
a friendly hand—that they should not overthrow whilst they
professed to reform them.—( Hear.) Ile confessed that he was
a zealous and devoted member of the Church of England,
and he should not object to a reform of abuses from those in
whom he could confide—whom he knew to be honest and de-
cided reformers of real abuses, but at the same time
resolved, whilst they reformed, not to subvert.—(Hear, hear. )
This was a doctrine which was well worthy the considera-
tion of the House. He was sorry he had detained the
House so long, but he was anxious to put this question
upon a fair issue—namely, whether the House would have the
present Cabinet or the Melbourne Cabinet ? They were
between these two propositions, and he was sure there was not
a man in the House—there were few, at all events, who would
feel any hesitation in coming to a decision. He would con-
clude by calling upon Hon. Members to rally round those in-
stitutions under which the English empire had so long and so
gloriously flourished.—( Cheers. )
Colonel G I SBO RN E ,could assure the House that he had
no intention of detaining it by endeavouring to reply to the
speech of the Hon. Member who had just sat down.—( Hear,
hear.) He was anxious certainly to state in a few words
what were the reasons which induced him to give his
support to the amendrlps which had been so ably moved
by his Honourable Friend, the Member for Yorkshire, as
well as the reasons on which he differed from the
address which had been moved and seconded on this
occasion. He admitted that he was generally, though
not universally, a supporter of the late Administration,
and though he professed on the hustings to be a decided op-
ponent to the present, yet he would not on that account only
give his vote in favour of the amendment, because he felt that
this was not the most fit time, or the most fit subject, on
which to oppose them. Nothing would have induced him if he did
not conceive it to be absolutely necessary to move an amend-
ment to the Address which had been prepared, to have offered
them any opposition on this question. He felt himself called
on to state to the House why he differed from that ad.
dress, which, in a very few words, he would now take the
opportunity of doing. But that it was at so late a period of
the discussion, he might have dwelt more at length on the
topics which it embraced ; but as it now was, he should
touch on them much more briefly than he had origi-
nally intended, if he had obtained a hearing at an earlier
period of the debate. It appeared to him that there was
but one intelligible reason given for the dissolution of the last
parliament in the speech of the Right Hun. Baronet, than
to which no one listened with more interest and attention than
himself. That reason was, that his Majesty was advised to
dissolve the last Parliament, in consequence of the country
being said to agree with his Majesty in supposing that the
last Parliament was proceeding with Reform without a due re-
gard to the preservation of the interests of the state. He was com-
pelled to believe this was the reason on which his Mesty had
been induced to give his sanction to the late dissolution.—
( Loud cheers.) He apprehended that no Hon. Gentleman
would maintain that the last Parliament was composed
of men so unreasonable, ss that none could be found
to form an administration founded on its own principles
Hear, hear.) Out of its dissensions, even if such
had existed, no necessity could have arisen for the assembling
of the present Parliament. For the Right Hon. Baronet
wished to identify himself with the principles of Lord Grey ;
and it was his language in the King's Speech, that the measures
which Lord Grey's Government supported, I support." It
was his argument, that what Lord Grey 's Government supported
he was anxious to carry into effect, and that what Lord Grey's
Government opposed, he should oppose. The Right Hon.
Baronet endeavoured to produce an impression that the
principles on which Lord Grey's Government was con-
ducted were to be the abiding maxims of his own.
Ile would ask, then, on the face of these things,
where was the necessity for dismissing a Parliament
which held these principles.—( Cheers.) They had no other
resource left them in discovering their motives but to return
to what he had before stated, that his Majesty was advised to
dissolve the Parliament on the ground that the country agreed
with his Majesty in thinking they would carry on reform incon-
sistent with a due regard to the preservation of its existing institu-
tions. He considered that it would neither be manly nor re.
spectful to his Majesty if lie refused to give an answer to the
appeal which his Majesty has made to every represen-
tative.—( Hear.) If he did not say to his Majesty " Your
Majesty has put the question to my constituency, and they
direct me most humbly and respectfully to convey to your
Majesty that such is not their opinion,"—this Parliament
could not, he thought, pass by this dissolution without obser-
vation. Well, then, the next ground on which he felt the ne-
cessity for the Amendment was this, though there were some
points in the wording of the Amendment, yet he thought on
the whole it was better to take it as it was, than to embarrass
I its operations by expressing dissatisfaction at some of its details.
The next point was, whether the words of the Address were
satisfactory to the Dissenters ? Marriage alone had been al-
luded to in that speech ; but he should be very glad to find
that the Dissenters were satisfied with the speech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman. But to come to the admission of
dissenters into Universities—the Right Hon. Gentleman said
that the Dissenters demand to be placed on an equal footing
in law with the members of the establishment.—( Hear, hear.)
hear.) But he replies, " I cannot permit that. I will not allow
you even degrees of equal honour to those given to others,
whatever your attainments ; but there are certain bodies in
the country with whom I stand on good terms, and I will
endeavour to procure some assistance from the Colleges, and
I will apply to the benchers of Lincoln's Inn in your behalf "
Did he suppose the Dissenters would be satisfied with such decla-
rations ?Was that an answer for the Minister of the Crown to give
to those who justly claimed to be put on an equal footing with
their fellow-countrymen ?—( Cheers.) If the Dissenters were
satisfied with such statements, they were very different in
spirit and sentiment to_ what he believed them to be. In
fact, he thought they would reject with scorn and disdain
the propositions of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—( Cheers.)
As to church-rates, which occupied so much of public atten-
tion, the scheme of the Right Hon. Gentleman is likely to
fail. With respect to the Irish Church. he thought that this
House was bound to recognize that dissatisfaction which pre-
vailed in Ireland on this subject ; it does not merely arise
from tithes, the only source to which it is attributed in his Ma-
jesty's speech, but out of the state of the Irish Church gene-
rally.—( Hear.) He would not go into that question, how-
ever, as the House would have an early opportunity of dis-
cussing it in full. As to Corporations, the Right Hon.
Gentleman said that " he uses nearly the same language
which Lord Grey's Government did. You were satisfied with
that, and why are you not satisfied now." But Lord Grey's Gc-
vernment went much further than that—it went to the establish-
ment of popular rights—it opened and reformed the Scotch Cor-
porations in the way the English Corporations ought to be
opened.—( Cheers.) What had been the course of the Rt. Hon.
Gentleman and those with whom he was connected? When a
Bill was brought in to restrain the application of corporation
funds to election purposes the Right Hon. Gentleman spoke
against it, as well as Lord Chancellor Lyndhurst.—( Great
cheering.) The Honourable Member for Leicester re-
commended them to peruse a book, and he in
his turn would recommend to him the consideration
of the words he was about to read.--( Hear, hear, hear.)
That Noble Lord argued that Corporations ought to have
influence in elections. He added, that they had as undoubted
a right to use the influence of the purse as others had to
defray the correct and proper expenditure of elections. He
took the Corporation of Leicester, which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman ( Mr. Gisborne) represented as an instance.
They expended 27,0001. at one election for bringing out-
voters in from London and elsewhere. That election cost
Mr. Evans 20,0001., and the Corporation 27,0001. The ob-
servations of the Noble Lord ( Lyndhurst) on this subject were
taken from the Mirror of Parliament. " I see nothing uncon-
stitutional—( Cheers from the Opposition)—l see nothing un-
constitutional in a Corporation applying their funds in order to
maintain its due influence in the town it is."—( Renewed
cheers from the opposition.) Now, considering the speech of
the Noble Lord, and of the Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man, they ought not to be surprised if he ( Mr. Gisborne)
and those who thought with him doubted whether the
report of the Corporation Commission, if ever laid on
the table of the House would be acted upon. But
the House would go farther than depending on these promises
—they would test the honesty of Reformers—they would see
who Reformers really were--who stood before and were re-
turned by popular constituencies, and whether they would
assist the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir Robert Peel) in giving
the " go-by" as the phrase was, to that plain and intelligible
principle contained in the Noble Lord's Amendment, "that
our Municipal Corporations should be placed under vigilant
and popular controul." He would ask, did the Right
Hon. Baronet, who said he was ready to remedy all practical
grievances; acknowledge that the present state of Corporations
was a grievance, but that Right Hon. Gentleman was rather a
ticklish person to deal with respecting abuses, and the only
effectual way to deal with him was to convince him of their
existence by Parliamentary majorities. Therefore he (Mr.
Gisborne) would say to those around him, keep your majo-
rities close together. If you part with them you part with the
only means you have of proving to the Right Hon. Baronet the
existence of, and of remedying abuses and grievances.
They could not prove their existence to the Right Hon.
Gentleman by evidence—No, no,—nor by argument—nor by
assertion. He has a particular objection to any such way of
demonstrating abuses. The only means of proving them
is by Parliamentary majorities.—( Hear, hear.) That was
the way in which the Corporation and Test Acts were proved
to he a grievance.—( Hear, hear.) That was the way in
which lie was convinced the disabilities under which the
English and Irish Catholics laboured was a grievance. It was
also the way, though he ( Mr. G.) doubted whether the Right
Hon. Baronet was not inclined to alter his opinion, in which
he was persuaded that the rotten boroughs were an abuse.
In the whole course of his Parliamentary career he ( Sir R.
Peel) never came forward to remedy an abuse. He (Mr. G. )
was willing to admit that the Right Hon. Baronet had shown
an anxiety to improve the details of some unimportant
measures, but he never had evinced any to remedy abuses
connected with the seat of power, calculated to diminish
its influence, and extend popular rights. If the Right Hon.
Baronet attempted to remove any Corporation abuse, he would
be guilty of suicide—of actual fe/o de se—and would not have
the apology for it, even of temporary insanity. He (Mr. G.)

would now briefly advert to certain remarks that had been
made in reference to that part of the King's Speech which,
alluding to our foreign relations, stated that the accession of
the present Administration to office gave great satisfac-
tion to the chief powers of Europe. Yes. No doubt it
gave unmingled satisfaction to the King of Poland (the Czar),
the Emperor of Austria, the Ex-King of France, and to
the rebel Pretender to the Kingdom of Portugal. No doubt they
would be all rejoiced at it, since the Court of Petersburg was
propitiated by the selection of an ambassador of sentiments in
unison with its own. London, Edinburgh, and Dublin, were
disgusted at the appointment, but shouts of joy were echoed
through Petersburgh, Berlin, and Vienna.—( Loud cheering.)
He would ask the Hon. Gentleman where was the late Go-
vernment popular ? Did they not possess the confidence of
the three kingdoms ? And he would now ask where was the
present favourite ? Was it not in Central and Eastern Europe,
where liberty, where liberal principles, were not in fashion ?
That was even a consolation. It put him in mind of that given
to the Prince Regent in a little work called the Twopenny
Post Bag, which, when it stated that Ireland would be
lost, if the then present system was continued, but it
also said that they had acquired Java, which
they had already been in possession of.—( Cheers.) It was
said that the late Government were disunited, and while sonic
of them were for Reform, others thought the measures had
gone too far, and another party thought they had not gone
far enough. But he would ask were the present Government
so united ?—( Cheers). Let them look to the combination of
the present government. If the Right Hon. Baronet had felt
the conviction of expediency, how could the Hon. Member for
Essex (the Right Hon. A. Baring) join the Right Hon. Bart.,
unless he looked back upon his errors and repented of them
in conjunction with the Hen. Members for Kent, and for the
University of Cambridge, supported by the Noble Lord
( Stormont) Member for Norwich ? and last, though not least,
the gallant Colonel who acknowledged himself the head of
the Orangemen of Ireland.—( Cheers.) And those to be joined
by the Hon. Member for Oxford f Surely this was a strange
coalition—both parties said they were converted ; but he
wondered upon which side the conversion took place.—
( Cheers and laughter.) The letter of the Hon. and Learned
Member fcr Dublin had been attacked as being a most
unfair attack upon the present Government. But he would
ask the Right Hon. Baronet, did no statesman ever say that the
present Government was composed of the worst materials?
It was composed of men who were all their lives promoting bad
government and opposing good.—( Loud cheers.) Was any
'Government ever placed in such a humiliating condition?
Much had been said of the letter of the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin, as attacking the present Government,
but he forgot to state that the letter in question was written
in October, a month before the present Administration came
into power.—(cheers.) It was only this day he understood
that negotiations were going on to form a most material alliance
against the best interests of the country.---( Cries of " Hear,
hear." But they would find " The funeral baked meats,
would coldly furnish the marriage tables."—(Loud cheers. )
Were there not among the supporters of the present admi-
nistration those who had formerly denounced the Bishop of
Exeter, and who had placed on the books of that House no-
tices of motions which were sufficient to turn the Duke of Wel-
lington out of office ? The Gentlemen opposite, who taunted
them for their divisions must depend upon that very thing for a
majority. But could they trim their boat so well between con-
servative and liberal principles as not to lose the votes and
support of either party? They might have chosen their sub-
ject better than to taunt his side of the House with inconsistency.
A Noble Lord had given notice of a motion to abolish the malt
tax, and this would cause a loss to the revenue of five
millions, while they might perhaps hope, with great eco-
nomy, to have a surplus of 500,000/. It was unfortunate
that the tax on shepherds' dogs had already been abo-
lished, for that was one which entirely suited the calibre
of the Noble Lord.—( Laughter. ) There had been much
lamentation at the fall which had, at vari els times, taken place
in the public funds, and it might be recollected what a panic
was once raised by the gentlemen opposite when the funds fell
to the "enormous" extent of 1-1- per cent ; but to what extent
would the funds fall when the Noble Member for Buckingham-
shire would carry—and carry it he was sure he would—the
repeal of the Malt Tax ?—( Hear, hear.) And yet that Noble
Member did not sit on their disunited, discordant side of the
House, but on the other, the united side of the House, among
those who were so united and unanimous in all their opinions
and measures.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Right Hon.
Baronet told them that he and his friends were not apostates ; but
to whom did he address himself? not to his own friends, for
they were already converted to the opinion. It was,
then, to that side of the House that he addressed him-
self. The Right Honourable Baronet said that reason
and knowledge formed the doctrine of that side of the
House ; but the Right Hon. Baronet said that prescription
was more valuable and safe than either reason or knowledge.
The Right Hon. Baronet had always opposed all their doc-
trines and measures, but he now offered to change his former
opinions, and to propose new doctrines and measures if they
would only take him back and give him a trial. But he
(Mr. Gisborne) for one would declare he would not take
him back, and that he would not give him that trial, be-
cause he could not place confidence in him.—( Hear, hear.)
It was true that there might be a majority in that house against
the Right Hon. Baronet. He believed there was a majority
against him the other night, but then he could command a
majority in the other House of Parliament. That he believed
to be the most singular argument ever addressed by ministers to
that house—the most singular and the least conservative
of the rights and privileges of the Commons of England.—
( Cheers.) Without equivocation, without any ambiguity of
language, he claimed for the Commons of England the right
to determine who the Ministers in this country should be.—
He claimed it negatively as to the persons, but positively
as to the principles entertained by the servants of the Crown.
There was one topic a hich it appeared to him ought to be com-
mented on in considering the Address and the Amendment.
They had a right to know on what terms they sat there.—
( Cheers.) They had a right to learn from the Right Hon.
Baronet whether their existence as Members of Parliament
depended upon their support of Ministers on that occasion
( Cheers.) It had been hinted in another place, and not denied
in that, that another appeal to the people was in contempla-
tion ; and they should be informed by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman at the head of the Government, whether or not he
meant to abide by that declaration. That was no new ques-
tion to be put to Ministers ; it was repeatedly put in 1784,
and when the Government of that day answered in
ambiguous terms, there was an appeal made to the
throne. He asked it then, and if the Right Hon. Baronet re-
fused to answer, they might know what confidence could be
placed in him by that House, and by a brave and determined
people.--( Cheers.) There was only one topic more on which
he would trouble the House. It had been asked what
were the materials of that Act, of which an administration
could be formed. On that lie (Mr. Gisborne) would only
express first his confidence and next his wish. He had no
doubt that a government could be found both unequivocally
possessing the confidence of that House and perfectly de-
scry ing the approbation of the country.—( Cheers.) He
hoped that in the formation of the next Administration
there would be contained within it men of whom they
might take as two samples the Hon. Members for London
aid Bridport.—( Cheers from the Opposition, and loud cries
of " Hear" from the Treasury benches.) He was confident
these gentlemen represented classes in this eountry which were
too powerful with safety to be excluded from any cabinet.
Any government formed of such men would bring stability to
their party, and possess the just confidence of the country.
Mr. PR YSE was sorry it had fallen to his lot to speak after
the eloquent gentleman who had just sat down, but he was
anxious to ask their indulgence while he explained the reasons
which induced him to withhold his support from the Amend-
ment.—( Hear, and cheers from the Treasury benches.) He
was afraid gentlemen who cheered him would have- little
cause for having done so, because he differed altogether from
the motives which actuated the Learned Gentleman
( Sergeant Goulburn) who last spoke from the side on
which he sat. He came into that House unfettered and
unpledged, and he was determined to exercise his
judgment upon every question which came before them.
—( Hear.) A few months ago, when they first heard of
the changes in the Government—they were asked to give the
new ministers their confidence and a fair trial, and he (Mr.
Pryse) was willing to say, in the words of Lord Chatham,
" confidence is a plant of slow growth." I have it not , but you
shall have what it is in my power to give, a fair trial.
He would say in plain language, they must all be Reformers
now, and the speech which they had heard the other night
made by the Right Hon. Baronet, contained much sound Whig
doctrine, and which, considering the quarter from whence
it came, was a subject of congratulation to them (the Re-
formers). Hon. Gentlemen might recollect that Mr. Canning
had said, in alluding to the phrase of " measures not men,"
that horses were the men and measures the harness, and it must be
manifest to every Member in that House, that having got the
horses in harness, they possessed the power of dragging the
team as they liked. He would own to them, and he
made no secret of it, that they ought not to change
horses suddenly—( Cries of " Hear, hear,")— and he had
an impression which had not been weakened by any thing that
had fallen from the political prospectus of the Honourable
and Learned Sergeant beneath him, that if they were to
change horses again, they would get them of a different
kind, whose necks would be too large for their collars,
whose heads would be too strong for their guidance, and whose
paces would be too rapid for their approval—( Hear, hear,
and laughter)—lightened and accelerated as it had been
by those measures, in some of which I,e had had the
honour of taking a part. —( Cheers.) That was the point
at which he now stood, although he was afraid those
who took the same view as himself, were looked upon as
mild apostates from those principles they formerly advocated.
With regard to the Amendment which was then before the
House, he had no objection to it whatever, with the
exception of two paragraphs, and were it not for those two
paragraphs he (Mr. Pryse) believed the Right Hon. Baronet
and his colleagues would not have objected to the amend-
ment.—( Cheers and laughter.) The first was with regard
to the Reform Bill, and the next was with regard to the
dissolution of Parliament. Every other paragraph he would
have supported, but he could not, as it stood, conscientiously
vote for it, for the reasons which he had stated.--( Hear,
bear.) With regard to his Majesty's speech itself, had its
strength been in proportion to its length, he should have been
satisfied with it.—(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) There were
many questions which ought to have been noticed in it.—
There was the great question with respect to the Church
in Ireland, that would, no doubt, before long, have to
be discussed. Again, as to the principal Corporations
he regretted that an opinion had been given by an individual
high in power, and he was sorry to understand, that that
opin
• ion had been repeated to-night—(loud cries of " hear,
hear")—because it amounted almost to a partial justification
of the offensive condition in which the corporations of this
country were now placed.—( Hear, hear.) But still he would
give the Ministers u fair trial—{Cries of " Oh, oh !")--he felt

too much confidence in the strength-they possessed, and he for
one would never exert that strength in support of a flimsy and
useless amendment.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial bench. )
He was disappointed with the meagreness of the amend-
ment which had been exposed by the speech of the Rieht
Honourable Baronet, the member or Tnmworth. With
respect to the Dissolution of the late Mini,. iry and Parliament
it had been well said by the Member who hes) last addressed
the House, that no reason had been meted why those
events had taken place. As regarded the dissolution, of Perlie
ment, he admitted that he was met with the prerogative of the
Crown, but he also recollected, that with the just prerogative
of the Crown came also the just rights of the subject, who
in every exercise of the prerogative had the undouted right to
say what he felt. (Cheers.) The Right lion. Baronet
had brought forward several instances of the dissolution of
Parliament under similar circumstances, especially in 1784 ;
that, however, in his opinion, was in no way parallel with the
dissolution of the late Parliament, as in that instance Mr. Pitt
had succeeded ap unpopular Government, but in the present
instance they had different men coming into power, but the dif-
ference of their measures was scaecely perceptible. He thought
that the country required some explanation why it had been
visited with the late dissolution, but entertaining that opi-
nion, he considered the present Government ought to have a fair
trial. He had already told the House that his fear with respect to
sudden changes, in the opinion of Tories, was not new, and as an
instance of that, he would refer to the authority of Mr. Hume,
( A laugh.) Mr. David Hume he meant, who said—" The
Tories have been so long obliged to doff the republican system
that they seem to have made converts for themselves by their
own hypocrisy."—( Hear.) In another passage of the same
author stated—" There were, however, very considerable re-
mains of that party in England, with all their old prejudices."
He would support the address, considering the Government
ought to have a trial, and believing if it was dissolved it might
be replaced by another more objectionable.—( Cheers. )
Lord HO WIC K rose to address the House amid much
cheering. He was not surprised that the Honourable
Gentleman who had just sat down, although he agreed with
many opinions entertained on that side of the House had come
to the conclusion he had, because it appeared to him (Lerd
Howick) the question now under discussion had been greatly
mis-stated in the speeches of the two Hon. Gentlemen who
had just addressed the House. He was not surprised to hear
the Hon. Member for Derbyshire acquiesce in the state-
ments of the Hon. and Learned Serjeant who had pre-
ceded him.—( Hear.) That Learned Gentleman had stated
that the amendment was not fair, because it said one thing and
meant another. He said that its object-was to reject the present
Government, and restore its predecessor. That did not appear
to him the meaning of the words of the amendment. As he
understood it, it distrusted the promises as to the liberal
policy in Reform which had been made by the present Mi-
nistry, and disapproved of the recent dissolution of Parliament.
He asked them, how any one who had supported the policy of
the Government for the last four years, could refuse his con-
sent to the amendment now before the House. Were the
promises of reforming and liberal measures satisfactory
to that House or to the country—he would go further and ask
whether, had those promises been more liberal, could they,
consistently with their duty and the wishes of their con-
stituents, agree to accept those promises from the indi-
viduals who formed the Government ?—( Cries of " Hear.")
There never was a time in which it was more necessary that the
reins of Government should be in the hands of those who would
use their power with a strong hand, yet act with gentleness—in
the hands of those who could see coming events, and knew how
to yield in the proper place—of those who knew where con-
cessions were right and necessary, and where they were
dangerous 2—( -leer, hear, hear.) If, in the present state
of affairs in this country, and still more in the disturbed state of
Ireland, the power of Government should be in hands like these,
he would confidently ask whether the present Ministers answered
that description ? The Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel)
had shown himself most signally and fatally ignorant of the
proper time when such concessions should be made. He would
instance the case of the Test and Corporation Acts—the still
more momentous question of Catholic Emancipation—the Re-
form question, preceded as it was by the question of
whether East Retford should be disfranchised or not ?—( Im-
mense cheering. )" He had only to touch upon these points
to satisfy every man who heard him on either side of the House.
He would appeal to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for
Kent, who opposed these measures throughout; and to the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin, who went much further than
he (Lord Howick) went upon almost all questions, whe-
ther the Right Honourable Baronet, by his past con-
duct had shown himself deficient, not only in the res-
pect of seeing coming events, but of the most ordinary
power of discovering dangers when they were closely impend-
ing—had he not shown himself as a pilot who, though pre-
viously warned, could not see the breakers till he was in the
midst of them? He must admit that the conduct of the lion.
Bart. during the last two years had been very different from that
of the men with whom he was connected. But he found that
all the other offices of the 'State were filled by men holding
extreme opinions ; and he ( Lord H.) differed far less from
the Right Hon. Baronet than many in whose company lie
had the misfortune to sec him.—( Immense cheering from
the Ministerial side, re-echoed by the Opposition.) But
when' he saw that the three Secretaryships were placed in
the last hands in which he wished to have seen
them,
.he could have no confidence in Governments.
When he saw the Right Hon. the Member for Cambridge
presiding over the domestic affairs, not only of this country
but likewise of that of Ireland—but of that gentle-
man he would say no more, than that from his former
conduct, he could hope for no reform from one who had been
the Member fur the close, ecclesiastical, and orange borough
of Armagh.—( Great cheering and laughter.) When he
saw the Foreign and the Colonial Secretaryships
in the hands of those whose conduct had been the
opposite of the Right Hon. Baronet, his confidence was gone.
Hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had supported many
measures of the late Government ; but how different
had been the conduct of the two Secretaries of the House of
Lords ?—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") Could any man doubt
but that it the conduct of those Secretaries had been of the
same character as that of the Right Hon. Baronet, the country
would still have had the services of the Noble Lord, the member
for Lancashire,and those of his colleagues who went out with him.
He had heard an expression of dissent from the Noble Lord,
but he was sure that his Noble Friend opposite would admit
that the change which led to the embarassments thrown
in the way of those who wished to carry into effect the various
measures of reform which the country demanded, was occasioned
by those very individuals. Had the Government been allowed
to proceed in the manner they wished, they would have had
the strength to survive those other causes which led to the
breaking up, and finally to the destruction of that Cabinet.
( Hear.) The opposition in the House of Lords was con-
ducted by the Duke of Wellington and the Earl of Aberdeen.
These were the two most active members of it, and they 'had
lost no opportunity of embarrassing the Government. Let
them look at the plan of Irish policy, where it had been at-
tempted to fan into a flame whatever remained of the old and
forgotten prejudices that yet lurked in the minds of the English
people. Let them look at the pains that had been taken to
nourish the antipathy of one part of the Irish people against
the other, and by those very persons who were now prepared,
according to the Speech from the Throne, to pursue a liberal
course. Not only upon this point, but also in our foreign
policy the two Noble individuals to whom he had alluded
went a length which had never been gone before in
this country. They thought it not inconsistent with their
duty to hold out encouragement to two foreign powers --to
the King of Holland and the Usurper of Portugal—(loud
cries of " Hear")—to hold out every encouragement in
their power to those powers who were resisting the policy
pursued by the then responsible advisers of the Crown.—
( Loud cheering.) The principles and opinions avowed by
those noble individuals, in conducting this reckless and fac-
tious opposition, makes me say that—of all men in the
world—they are the two most unfit to be entrusted with
the momentous interests placed in their hands.—( Continued
cheering.) With respect to our internal affairs, and those of
Ireland, there is the control of this House to force the
reluctant Minister to yield to the just demands of the
people. But what control have we over our foreign policy ?
How are we to know what orders were transmitted, at the be.
ginning of this session, to the Governor of Canada by the
Earl of Aberdeen ?—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Don't
talk to me of a fair trial.—( Great cheering on both sides of
the House.) Why should we commit the destinies of so
large a portion of the earth to the controul of men whose
opinions appear to me to be opposed to the welfare of the hu.
man race—(continued cheering)—and whose acts were totally
at variance with the whole policy pursued during the last five
years by the late Government ?—( Hear, heat...) Sir, I say,
then, that if the composition of the Government is
not calculated to - give any satisfaction to the country,
I ask Hon. Members what do they think of the first act of
that Ministry ?—( Hear, her.) Their first act was the dis-
solution of the last Parliament, and, wherever they had the
smallest influence, to exercise it in turning out even the most
moderate Reformers.—( Cheers, and cries of " No.") The
Right Hon. Baronet denies that statement, but if as he says his
opinions have during the last two years been not very different
from those of the late Government, I cannot help asking why
a relation of my own was to be opposed on the part of the
Government, in favour of an individual who only two years
ago introduced himself as a Radical Reformer ?—( Loud
cheering from the Opposition.) The Right Hon. Baronet was
not perhaps cognizant of the fact, but I can tell him that the
present Lord Chancellor canvassed for votes in favour of that
individual.—( Cheers.) But the question of the late dissolution
has been so long and so forcibly dwelt upon by other Hon. Mem-
bers that at this stage of proceedings, however much I condemn
that measure, and the result of which has been to increase the
number of persons holding extreme opinions on both sides, and
to diminish the number of those holding moderate and sound
Constitutional opinions,—l repeat, strongly as I feel on
that subject, I shall not now allude further to Hear.)
Entertaining those opinions which I have jolt expressed, and
believing that those opinions are entertained by the very
great majority of the country, I feel myself bound to vote
for the Amendment proposed by my Noble Friend.—( Cheers.)
I think that if that amendment is carried advantage will re-
sult. In the first place, it will do more than any other mea-
sure to calm the public mind. It will show to the people more
to prevent that desire of which Hon. Gentlemen are afraid, viz.
any further change in the constitution of this House—it will
show to the people of England, that this House, constituted as
it now is, even under the most unfavourable circumstances,
fairly represents the opinions of the people, and believing that
they will not ask for further changes—(Loud cheers)—l
look, likewise, at the effect which the Amendment
will produce in the composition of the present Govern-
ment. In saying this, I must acknowledge that had I
thought that the necessary effect of carrying this amendment,
would have been the summary removal of the present Adminis.
tration from office, I should at least have had great difficulties
in acquiescing in it—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches).
-I felt so strongly the reasons urged by the Right Hon. Ba-

1 ror

,t.t, the other night felt so 'strongly -tie. a-, ;runic °'
my Noble Friend, the Member for Lane that I s!ir-nd.l,lot
; tif
al
without gr,..at appt.el:ension—l am n.- ran I you 's. Jug: yi
it to m) should have had smme doul-t, and, at
events, I could trt, wNlout great ulty approic,.-
sic. give a vote might be the probable mclrs
of at once ing the present Admittistrati.,n )d
1 d.) not see that the .ttn nultre pro:',osed by No`H F..; -
nevessariiv hots thi- eff. et. i hay.• bad th-
ing frote. the alAt B Ponce •.; b . the sa., ‘:,ll're
with myself, a id in the event :.f :hea,ttendm, esrtie
wi;l not consider irat,e;f compel:Pd oitiet •
( Cheers from the 'Midst: 11. A side. ) I hosed this iot,ot,tti.-0 Sri"'
the very greatest sati.fAction, for though I deprecate
as the greatest calamity the resent Gev,..rnmer.t's pero.a-,
nently continuing in cflice in its pies( nt state, yet
own I cannot participate in the desire expressed by my nobe
friend the member for Lancashire, for the formation of a Cabi
net in which those extreme opinions which are represented by the
members of Bridport and Londoii should have a preponderating
influence. I have the greatest respect for those gentlemen,
and I rejoice to sec them in the House, and in a great number
of questions I concur with them ; but, at the same time,
they have expressed themselves in this House in a manner
that leads me to fear that they are disposed to carry
their opinions to an extreme length, and to press on with in-
considerate and dangerous rapidity to accomplish there.--
( Loud cheers.) I say, then, that Ido not think that
I would vote for the amendment, if I thought it would b!
a means of removing the present Cabinet from office ; but I
think that most important benefits will arise from it in this
way, that without producing the summary rejection of the
present Ministry, it will oppose his Majesty in a manner
the least repugnant to his feelings, and the most respectful on
our part, and at the same time so plainly as not to be misun-
derstood—( Loud cheers)—that in the Cabinet as at present
composed, this House and the country, which this House repre-
sents, do not place entire confidence.—( Tremendous cheering.)
I retract the expression—l mean that degree of confidence
which would enable them to carry on the Government. I base
• explained sufficiently the grounds upon which I support the
Amendment moved by my Noble Friend, and it only remains for
use to say, that in expressing this opinion I sin afraid I have
taken more than the situation I hold entitles me to do.—(N°'
no.) I may have been imprudent ; for party. purposes it may
have been very wrong and also very inexpedient in me
to make the declaration I have just now made ; but I confess
that the crisis in which we are placed is so alarming—it seems
to me so full of the greatest and most imminent dangers'
that no consideration of party interest—( Great cheering)
—no consideration of individual friendship, could prevent
me from expressing that opinion which I believe to be ,
just. —( Loud cheers.) I thiA that in this crisis it be-
comes me to postpone all consideration as to whose fault it is
that the present state of things has arisen, and to apply mYsell,
to the consideration solely as to what is the best course, under
the present circumstances, to pursue. I have stated what are
my opinions, and I trust the House will believe that those
opinions are sincere.—( Loud cheers.)
An Hoa. MEMBER rose amidst much confusion, in cense'
quence of several Members leaving the House. We under-.
stood him to say, that there could be but one opinion on the
straight-forward and high-minded integrity of the Noble Lord
who had just sat down. If he was an opponent, he was an
Honourable opponent. He for his own part considered it att
honour in him, in a crisis like this, to come forward so low
fully, yet courteously, to deliver his sentiments. We under-
stood him to say that he differed from the Noble Loll
in his opinions on the illustrious character who had formed
so large a subject of his speech—his fame was built on a ,
pinnacle not to be hurt by the animadversions of the Noble
Lord—it would live to eternity. The Duke of Wellington
was an illustrious warrior—( The concluding part of this sen-
tence was lost amidst loud cries of " Hear, hear.") 10
continuation, he observed, that in passing from this subject'
he would. just advert, yet with the utmost delicacy, to 6'l
allusion which had been made by the Hon. Member for Derby-
shire, namely, that the funds had fallen when the present,
Speaker was elected. - (Cheers, with cries of " Hear.") It
then such was !the effect produced on commerce, nothing' ho
thought, could be conceived as conveying more completely what
were the actual wishes of the country. He hoped that some
firm hand would be found to hold the reins of Government'
to support the present Ministry, and which would tend to stilt
which he was sorry to say he thought was in great activity at
the present ti:ue, the excitement of a rebellion in Canada;
It would have been much better if that Hon. Member bad
stated his opinions, that the House might know what esti:net°
to form of his objections. The Amendment and the Address,
were not so widely different that the recommendations of eaca
might not be both stated at the same time. One statement
had been made which was of the most serious nature,!
namely, that a man who changed his political opinion°
had forfeited his rank and station, and must become It
renegade in society. The bosom friend of Lord
Rockingham in 1827, brought in an efficient measure of re' '
form ; yet at the end of two months he refased to ICI!.
for such a measure (hear, hear, hear) but be
was not charged with inconsistency by his Hon. Friend Mr;
Fox.—( Loud cries of " Question," " O'Connell," " Divide, •
" Adjourn," and " Order," which lasted several minutes-)
The Honourable Member continued, notwithstanding t°interruption. Suppose the present Administration were removed,
where were those to be found who would follow and forll3,
-- )
ministry ? Lord Melbourne's party were completely staff
less.(" Question 1" ) A Government reconstructed from tbs.,
party could not exist a fortnight.—(" Question 1" " divide I.
If a Government should be formed of the Melbourne .Adint;
nistration, those who join them must be their masters,:_(Loa°
cries of " QueStion l" and much confusion.)
Mr. DUNCOMBE had not intended to intrude any
servations upon the House, only he was reninested to do so la
consequence of the speech made by Olt' Right Hon. Gentle;
man, the President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Berl,'
last night.—( Loud laughter from the Ministerialists.) •th; '
rose to give his unqualified contradiction to the statementmade by that Right Hon. Gentleman—that the wealth, irst,el
ligence, and respectability of the metropolitan district and g
the City of London, were not represented in that Hottsl
He was obliged to confess, that when the Reform Bill oasse":
he did not expect to hear of those little sarcasms that used `',
to be levelled against reformers. They then made allowance
for the irritation under which the Right Hon. holdalls!,
must have naturally laboured, when he saw Gotten an
"
Sarum sliding from under him ; but he (Mr. D.) eoo'
fessed that—as a Minister of the Crown, and set"
want of the people, he was forced to say it was unbecolni°l
of that Right Hon. Gentleman to treat with such disresPecv
the electors of the country as to say, that the wealth, re'
spectability, and intelligence of the metropolitan districts 5re,.1.6„,
not represented. He appealed to the recollection a t''"
House, and he would:ask:them how ti..• Right Hon. Gentlerosa
supported his argument. Look said he at the city of London'
and you will find that the address to the King on the accssione
the present government to power, had attached to it 5,000 Si
tures. But did the House know how these signatures Wet!
obtained, and of what description they were ? He would no
state what they consisted of, for it was right that the 11°°'"
should know, and that the Crown should know, what tbef
were. The address had 5,000 signatures no doubt, but, °.,,g •
analysing it, it was found that only four-tenths of th
were electors of the City, and that the remaining;
three thousand were unauthorized signatures, some of the);
merchants' clerks, some of them pretending to the charade
of merchants, unless some of the fancy shopkeepers of Chear,
side should be so regarded. He (Mr. D.) would ask, rt'i.
there no wealth in the Bank of England ?—(Laughte
from the Ministerial side, and cheers from the OpP°,sl;
don. ) Who was the Governor of the Bank of Englaitu
A gentleman who has been returned as a representative of the'
city ; yet the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Baring) has thri
assurance to say that neither the wealth, intelligence, b-,,
respectability of the city was represented ! With respect to t
metropolitan districts, with respect to himself, wbo representemt
Finsbury—( Laughter from the ministerial side)—for
electors of that place, who returned him, know that be tr_„,
not, like the Right Hon. Gentleman, a consistent politician
they contend as much wealth, respectability, and intgo
ligence as the places from which the Hon. Gentlelned
who composed the present Government were retuillarii
The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer appe fos
not to understand the object of the Amendment, that 'it,
framed merely for the purpose of catching the votes 01 0,,
Noble Lord, the Member for Lancashire, and of his colleatti
in office ; but the Right lion. Gentleman was totally mist's)/
for although the argument of the Noble Lord was in favour.,-,
the Amendment his vote was to be in favour of the Aildre rb, .
He was sure that his eloquent and Hon. Friend worad betcsl
them. There were various motives attributed to these who w° of
give their votes on the present occasion; but th.question wat:iosi
Reformers would they support their opinions? And the ques`tbe •
was, whether Parliament was prepared to submit to
prejudices of the Peers and the caprices of the Coarttbe
(Cheers)—or whether they were to carry into effect ~brs
principles of the Reform Bill, which protected the ma so
and liberties of the people ?—( Loud cheers.) With reger
the Noble Lord's amendment it was objected to because it tr.
pressed a regret at the dismission of the late Minis g
ot
He should say that he thought the amendment had :cur,
gone far enough.—( Cheers.) If they examined the SPe-fesS. •
they would find it contained unmeaning professions and Pip-
regrets. If they would just examine what were thee dsert:o
tion of regrets.—(Laughter.—The first was, that
Houses of Parliament were burned—(laughter and cbeeri'•oo
and what the cause of that was, no satisfactory explanaild •
was given, except that a Report would be
must:
upon their table. However, lie supposed that they Moi.-
submit to the prerogative of the Crown. There 109.00
other regret in the Speech, and that was that set'
differences between Belgium and Holland have not been .00
tied. But ht could tell why they were not. Th!,gere
arose from the intrigues of the Gentlemen, now in power. lithe
was another part of the address deploring the state gee'
agricultural distress, yet it did not point out any reglek
Even the Noble Lord would. be puzzled to find a re',-,,5-ads
The llon. Member then went on to repudiate tore chargLt the
by the Member for Essex (Baring) against the charge tli-ore•
10
metropolitan boroughs did not represent the wealth 10
perty. If they would look to Ireland, he would askLjeir
prospect had that wintry under the present Ao"-coer
tration ?—( Hear, hear.) For this and many ,
reasons, with which he would not trouble the Hon f
was deturtulued to give his votes to the amendment °
Noble Fiend the Member for Yorkshire..
Mr. A. BARING rose to explain, in answer to tile t°1111;
servations of Mr. -Duncombe. He begged to sgtr the
he had made no observations on the Member's {°r Os"'
Tower Hamlets, or for the borough of Finsbury; hot
he merely stated in answer to the remarks from
Member for the Tower Haerdets, that the Addreltb $55
London, was signed by a large proportion of the weabe
influence of the metrorelis ; but be begged to say tbat OA
not criticize either the taste or the discrimination
borough of Finsk.asy. 0141'
Sir JAM GRAHAM declared he was labOes-rts, -

justify
a ail
vhc!,
melr!

. v., lc

confess
t seems
an&ers,
eermg)
prevent
to be
it be:
,ult it 0
myself
under
;hat are
at those

r of re'
to 10t!
gut 1
end 31r,;
Divide
iinutes•
ling tir
.emoveu'
form 6
ly Staff.
ionli that
,wide
o

any O 1
do so,'"
Gent')
Bari&s. )
taterneo.
tt, jute%
ct and 01
Home.
passcu'
; used to
llowsne°
r:utleins;
,ton so

-
Jog

acute pain, and was troubled with severe indisposition-44) much so, that he had not intended to take any part in the de-
bate. But he understood that a speech of his, addressed to
his constituents, had been referred to by the Hon. Member
for Derbyshire. and which was more pointedly noticed by the
Member for Finsbury. He felt it his duty to advert to the
observations which he made to the electors, and he should be
wanting in that respect which he owed to those who sent him
to that House if he did not declare the motives which should ac-
tuate him in the vote he intended to give. He would be proud to
rup to the pledges he gave his constituents, and he felt urged,
a painful sense of duty, to separate, upon the present
occasion from those with whom he had hitherto acted
in public life.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") He stated to his
constituents the course which it was his intention to pursue
for the future, as he did the motives which hitherto guided him
in public life. It would ill become him who had for 18 years
the
acted with a particular party, at the present moment to desert
m, but, differing from those who sat opposite on great and
important questions he could not hesitate upon the course
Which he should then take. There were many topics
also upon which he and the Gentlemen of the Opposi-
tion benches still agreed, and he heard with great and
sincere Pleasure the sentiments expressed in the speech
of the leader of the Whig party, the Member for South De-
°ollBhirc• He heard also, with great delight, the address of
the Noble Lord, the Member for Northumberland, whose
talents and sentiments were worthy of his Noble Father—
(Cries of Hear, hear)—with whom he ( Sir J. Graham) had
7 long acted, and also of the Member for the West Riding of
rkshire. The Right Hon. Baronet continued—l concur
pifullY, with the Noble Lord, the Member for Northumberland,
pacing more confidence in the head of the Ministry than
uo in all the other persons who compose the Administration.
agree with him that the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet,
daring the period I served under EarlGrey,was to be distinguish-
ed from that for which his present colleagues were remarkable.
did state to my constituents, and I repeat here, that consider-
ing the talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman, his private fortune,
and public integrity, I did regard him with very different
Sentiments from those I entertained for a large portion of
those now forming his Administration, to whom, and to whose
ikleaNres I have throughout lay public life been opposed.
°w, I mean to say that, entertaining these opinions, there
-"ld be great inconsistency in not voting for the amendment.
Laughter, and cries of hear, from the Opposition.) I mean
address--(Cheers from the Ministerial side)--of the No-
me Lord. If I could arrive at the conclusion to which my Noble
Friend has arrived, considering the vote of last evening, and
that in the event of the Ministry being placed in a minority, if I
e°°l,l believe that an immediate overthrow of the Administration
could not ensue, agreeing with my Noble Friend, Member for
t °tall Lancashire, as to the character of the King's Speech,more
;ttieularlY with respect to that part which is of vital im-
' nmee, that which relates to Corporation Reform—
Friend-n cries of Rear, hear")—l agree with my Noble
that the public elind is made up upon that point—
Hear, hear, hear)—that if is a subject which branches forth
'ant° tore directions the one relating to trust property,
Iltiet,,l LIN s° all the abuses in the administration of it—(Hear,
R.1.;-that that is a complicated subject which requires
consideration, and the other when the intention of
skin. irnstees are matter of inquiry ; on that point I.
.do
ter toe public mind is made up, and to whom by the Minis-
e' this country a great concession must be made—
bo„har,, hear )—but I say, entertaining those opinions, lam
amend
to Sayd that I should have been disposed to agree to the
ent'ruent, had it not been that consider the effect would
Ire 4:1 came to a very different conclusion—( Hear).—
piterai.that contemplated by my Noble Friend, namely, that of
aor. 11, for the second time, his Majesty's Ministers in a mi-
telY during the first week of the new Parliament.—( Hear.)
to uIY constituents, that it had been my misfortune not
truiPut implicit confidence in Lord Melbourne's Adminis-
gi• - that his Majesty's present Government had
44411 'large and ample promises of Reform measures ;
into that
I thought, from very particular circumstances,
• traich it is now unncessary for
.me to enter, and which if
It Wet.
his e necessary, i` bare not sufficient strength' to detail, if
4r.„7;aiesty's Government were honest in their intentions of
ree;',;aC those reform meosures into effect, they do possess the
the and they do possess the facilities which no administration,
I thlro, lation of which I can now contemplate would possess.
tilt'4ll therefore not vote against any motion which should
sir to me to have a factious tendency, and intended for
pro,j'4l'Pose of destroying the Administration before it should
th,rll,,ce its measures. ( Hear, hear. ) lam determined
but ere not only not to strike withont hearing them,
pose think it unjust to strike them for the pur-
Sti,h " Preventing their being heard.--( Grea't cheering. )
Ithi "re my opinions, and to those opinions I still adhere.
gained
hit is but justice and candour to the large promisosi con-
kin,.d in the King's speech, that we should give the presenttitioWters a fair trial—( Cries of " Oh, oh," from the
ern Oppo-
Litad" Hear" from the Ministerial side of the House.) Hon.
tayth-eY ra are surprised, they are astonished that I should
are large promise I thnk the pomes large,
Whichh
ive already saids. i that I considerr theis terms in
tsta hose promises have been conveyed, are extremely
I Put
e•••-••( Cheers from the opposition.) I am prepared
•
'nth of those promises to the test. I wish to try the
Rillthe present Ministers.—( Cheers.) I think measures
447 produssed such as are professed, and will the
%lent] of the subject of corporation reform, about
think ,t confess I entertain jealous apprehensions, I
(ehe measures of Ministers will be satisfactory.—
t4tetie- 'rnmthe Ministerial side of the House.) I have
tows elsewhere, and I nosv restate it here, that feeling
rds th '
, e present Government that certain degree of
.want
uenee I have already stated, my sense of duty is not
Aliurte said any belief of my support, and all that
Opveseiel.',„'d I will do is this, I will protect them. against the
don, which appears to me to assume a factions character.
eof nIY utmost to put them upon their trial for the
Nat I,:me people of England.—( Hear, and cheers.) The
11:,4(le b;":3fe particularly rose to allude to is the declaration
meat he Honourable Member for
.Derbyshire in his com-
fits ;t1 some rech of mine to my constituents.
. •18/3 .
uSt J ORI E explained.
''',in'srsr'
er was about to be revived in a form, pure and purged
soh°,"---(Tremendous cheering from the Opposition.)
o;•t,Ments. so cordially adopted by Honourable Mem-
fat ttle other side do not in the least disturb me.
Jid 4 laugh.) But the charge has been made because
ale ot
e contradict a.foul and false report in a newspaper.
;es,,zy sat on that side of the House, these were not eon-
114getiPur,e Whig principles and conduct ; but we
.have
tit„ "i 1 that._( Hear hear, and great cheering.)
•L• .ondon is no longer represented by the wealthy and
a rcher f members of that city, but by my Hon. Friend the
froroc Finsbury.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to what
t'N in my address to my constituents, I said that I
kin think that I could well support an Administra-
ikt, aeu_Posed of •
k materials more objectionable, because com-
ita:44oiinliien to whom I had been all my life opposed.
th's, t pet IY great objections to the composition of the con-
thq cf 1 Ord Melbourne, which was as different from
)1,4„t0f t2r,,d Grey as that of the Right Hon. Baronet is from
tilid "iu Melbourne If this were the proper opportunity I
titcluteltitut,o that subjeCt more at large, and I would satisfy the
'°lltt Suchjection to the government of the Right Hon.
4,ce, lathat I could not give it my unlimited con&
the pr`
+sded, that not seeing
.my way to the es-
t) "e of a better administration on the overthrow
Witkctrent; I should to the best of my. power resist
he, Per aus oPposition.—( Cheers from the Ministerialists. )
sea thi°;_nal inconvenience, and under much suffering, I
tithed ehe '1 Purpose appeared in my place this night.---( Re-
). The point to which I now wish to refer,
ts %Let iiese id intend to touch upon it when I arose—but my
•
141' atat is to give a contradiction as direct as I an express it,
Othi;eeraent that has been made by the Hon.c Member for
ISI3
%L„°' G, ORNE—I said that I entirely disbelieved it.
it 'Pp% AHAM_That may be one of the new tactics of
c,,t....0rt'0n to give circulation to rumours which they disbe-
t Cs; remendous cheering from the Ministerial benches. )
tptiqPiSiresPcsition I can call no other than a Babel Opposition ; it
r,„°l4 Wtii many tongues and discordant languages—new
tonld otherla---Moderate and Ultra-Radicals and Repealers.
Ilsa Motives were wanting for my present vote, it
f),:nts,: that into such a coalition I am not prepared
It 1113' :--c Loud cheering from the Ministerial benches.)
tttiVltelliertiht, although an old Whig—( Cheers and laughter,.
tktn„tt so e;_.,remainder of the sentence was lost.) With
gitt; et tit,ue, rumours which have been scattered abroad,
the titice„ em have been sown by the wayside, and
;°,st Pars-„, root and sprung up ; but I do deny
141 Thy Noble Friend and myself, and on the part of
Who Occupy this section of the House—
Oti deny la 1.
hit 14d.tily tig...ter from the Opposition)—l repeat it, that
the preeth,Clat unequivocally that any communication, directly
gror-( An Hon. 'Member here made an observation to
o which was followed by loud cries of "Oh," from
.41'444:1°u.) I trust that Hen. Members will allow me
1;441444,„.1.11Y Noble Friend has suggested to me that
t,ll 14)r-iation has been made by the Government
Not,t4cht,
ar_,ne has been tendered from us to the Go-
s''ort, ,nt '1 I believe it is impossible to give the
1 -ielle ..tore flat and decided contradiction.—( Cheers. )
rezplanati h
e .refosed on ad been asked or received.-4 Cheers.
~.(v•Pende to share in the Government and pro ess to act
S'4l4 Go it Part—if refusing to share the responsibility
pot° !e.rtirent, I had by any underhand intrigue
te I join
them, should now agree to give them my
Ist::estel,a,a°ll4l consider myself as unfit for siring
I,`,l_le constituents I now have the honour of
ro
.71 the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Duncombe) says
entiOseade`ne effect that no man can give, in these times,
ort to a Government, without being
tliskt,lll irgith:,:thectimPP•—( Hear, hear.) I say and believe,
r; ante "len who may vote in favour of the
N„ sot who who
have usually voted with the Whigs,
111,, with
04,
.us. act an independent part, and if the Hon.
skOspi4sts ncl::inns to know their names, he may read them
N ..The L,‘. divisions which will appear in the Morning
ti,l/44 e Sight Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud
did ONN
cr,11.;..,if.- . ELL rose and was received with loud cheers.
at ids° such a thing as a factions opposition,
nt,°t) ~„,en a thing as factious supporters.—( Great
4totapu there ,tie a. coalition on one side, there is a eoa-
ys l'idieZed of exe.eSsively bad materials, and at least
the other.
slin7;sorry, and I assure the
NO, it "' trespass
you
at
te rae!.ret that it is
vt.N sec with a upon If I could,
Of `I:11, Ittr,Bens.e of my duty to my unforti:t'aleia_n7
11,14r1,3 of " Oh, oh," from Lord Steno., a
taSt •
coke, Zcift perceive the quarter from whence
.can bear them with perfectly good
10AttpZ(ei, Hear bear, hear.) Would to God that my
sit'_ kata,„."ntrY had nothing more to bear than
I.,_is,:trUtPiltitti°lll—( Cheers from the Opposition.) I
ass unaffectedly sorry, and I regret

sincerely to be compelled to trespass upon the House
at this late period of the discussion, when many who
are present have been wearied with the subject,
and when every topic that has been adduced has been exhausted.
But I think I may confidently appeal to every person here pre-
sent, whether I could deem myself justified in refraining from
offering some observations.—( Hear.) Personal reference
has been made to myself ; the Right Hon. Baronet opposite
has produced a letter, written and published by me. He has
made it a part of his case—and I must candidly admit
that in that letter my sentiments were greatly exaggerated.
—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Honourable Member Ice
Nottingham (Mr. Finch) also referred to me. He has taken
me into his holy keeping—( Great laughter)—he has taunted
me with the party cry of " Measures, not Men." My
only reply to him shall be-14E118E1Rn, and not Men.
( Immense cheering.) The Hon. Member for Yarmouth,
also (Mr. Praed), has poured his vial of wrath upon me—
he has called me a dangerous person. lam sorry—
( Very emphatically)—l cannot return the compliment.—
(Great cheering and laughter.) He is only dangerous
to the party he supports. (Laughter.) I regret that
he should follow the example of a class of men over
whom he is so superior—the hireling writers of calumny.—.
( Cheers.) He ought to recollect that in that class are found
individuals who are solely guided by their own interests, and
ready to become the servile slave. of any man to whom pelf
is offered. I feel it my duty to address the House—not so
much on my own account, as upon the interests which
are at stake in this great country, upon a party so divided
in opinion—when her high patriots are so separated—
when her Whigs are so uncertain and wavering (turning to
Sir James Graham)—( Cheering )—when her Government is
so weak (turning to Sir R. Peel).—( Continued cheering. )
I will first remind the House what is really the question before
it. The question does not relate to any particular section or
department--the question is whether we shall follow up the
effects of that constitutional revolution which took away the
power of nominating a majority in this House from the oli-
garchy, and gave it substantially to the people ?--( Cheers. )
The question is whether our :institutions shall receive amelio-
ration and improvement, or to remain in their present state ?
A Parliament has been assembled, and a Government
has been appointed, to meet that Parliament. The ques-
tion really is, whether that Government has come forward
with those promises—with those pledges which may be
relied on? The question is, whether as the representatives of a
reform constituency meeting here at this time to respond to
their demands, the Government hold out hopes and pro-
mises which are specific in their application, or whether there
is
,not something to be added to make it more explicit ?
The question is, whether the people of England
will be satisfied with these expressions—(Loud cheers)—
whether the people of Scotland will be satisfied ?—( Continued
cheering.) I need not ask whether the people of Ireland will
be satisfied, for one contemptuous sentence is all that is devoted
to her. The substantial question for the country is not whether
such has been made, or whether partial hopes have been held
out ; but whether the answer to the King's speech be the ge-
nerous response of the country ?—( Hear.) Those who sup-
port the Address admit that the King's speech contains
vague promises—that hopes are held out—that expecta-
tions are aroused; but I will tell them what it holds out—
it holds out moonshine—it holds out a little to England, less
to Scotland, and nothing at all for unfortunate Ireland. That
is the predicament in which we are placed. I would not
dwell on this subject ; for all has been said in extenuation
of its hopes that the question really admits.—( Hear,
hear.) The Noble Lord, the Member for Liverpool,
has exhausted its sources. I would take three or four of them
as a specimen. The Noble Lord has posted his constituency, who
have come forward with so noble a zeal in support of the consti-
tution; but the reason speaks for itself. He has put his case as a
case of conscience, and he laboured here for more than a
full hour, with that eloquence which I shall not attempt
to prove, that the measures of the Administration, were quite
as good as the men that the present Ministry was
composed of—precisely the same materials as the
Melbourne Administration. Why, the Noble Lord opposed
the Melbourne Administration ; and I find, therefore, in this
argument, nothing that can give me satisfaction on the subject.
—( Hear.) He was followed by one of those parties professing
himself perfectly independent—a hater of cabals, who is so
consistent in his views. I allude to the member for Knares-
borough. He supported the address because he is a thorough
Reformer, and in his zeal after reform has actually re-
formed himself ; but I must say he has reformed himself
by the most extraordinary logical process that I ever
heard.—(Laughter and cheers.) He supported the policy
of the Whigs, and he supported their measures in connection
with the principle of Reform. Now, however, from some
unknown cause, he has declined to go along with them. A pro-
cess of re-action, I was at first somewhat at a loss to discover;
but he told us at length that the majority of his constituents
were anti-Tories, but there were others who were Tories,
assd thus with the utmost impartiality gave his speech for
the one, and his vote for the other.—( Cheers and laughter. )
The Noble Lord, the Member for Cumberland, will count in
his list to-morrow, they will have him in that section of the
House—l ca.!! it a section, it is not a party, and it- is denied
that it is a faction, and therefore I will give you a name for it—
I think we must call it a Tail—( Laughter.) How strikingly a
draftsman might draw a caricature of this tail, headed by Lord
Stanley, with a smile upon his countenance like a silver plate
upon a coffin 1 The Cockermouth crutch of this detestation,
of all collision supporting it.—(Laughter.) Yes, Sir, these
are the ludicrous points of view that result from the present
situation of this country. The Right Honourable Gen-
tleman
is to-night to be saved—he is in no danger.
To-morrow we shall hear his cry of triumph. But how is
he to be saved? By the Tories ? No. By the Whigs ?
The genuine Whigs have not been got over yet.—( Loud
and continued cheering.) Whatever may become of speculations
for places and negotiations for office, they have not yet been
broken in upon. Difficulties may be got over—kind-
nesses may be held out—. and protection offered to the
unfortunate, and to orphans ; but the Whig—the true
Whig—the true friend of liberty, and the true Reformer, will
stand firm.---(Loud cheering.) I doubt much the value of
the Right Hon. Gentleman's protection, and even that of the
Noble Lord and his sequents.—(Laughter. ) No I no he
may carry Caner and his fortunes, but it may be said of him—
" So down thy hill, romantic Ashbourne, glides,
The Darby Dilly carrying six insides."
—( Great laughter.) Sir, it is' quite congenial with the genius
and spirit of any to mix merriment with woe ; and the sound of
laughter is often heard when the tear of grief trembles upon the
cheek. Ireland will weep when it hears of this collusion, this
desertion from the cause of the people to the ranks of
would-be patriots and would-be Ministers.---(Loud cheers. )
How many embryo Lords of the Treasury do I not see before
me ?—how many Commissioners of the Board of Control ?
how many Lords of the Admiralty ?—how many Presidents
of tne Board of Trade ? There are plenty of them to make an
Administration, but they do not enjoy the confidence of
the country, nor of the high Conservatives, to entitle them to
that distinction, and God forbid that the destinies of this
country should ever be entrusted to men who neither know
themselves, nor can be relied upon or trusted by others. I
shall now return to the speech, and I will ask what does it
promise beneficial either to England, Ireland, or Scotland ?
It is remarkable for nothing but vagueness and generalities—
it really promises nothing satisfactory. Yet you (addressing
ministers) want a "fair trial."—( Hear, hear.) You are
such novices in public life, the country does not know
you. Yes, the country does know you—it knows you so well,
that you may, perhaps, successfully chance an alibi ; but of
one thing I am sure, your characters cannot avail you.—
(Laughter and cheers.) You have been tried, and have
been condemned—you were indicted, and convicted—you
were indicted and condemned of numerous acts of mis-
rule.—( Lout cheers.) You stood, as long as you could.
by Gatton and Ora Sarum, and yet you. want a trial !
( Cheers.) You declareS:l the rotten borough system to be
the perfection, the gloria decus et tutamen, of the British
Constitution—you held that the nominC''s of the Aristocracy
were the best and real representatives of the people,
sanctioned and hallowed by long prescriptive authority,
nd that
human ingenuity could devise nothing equal to it or so perfec:"
—( Loud cheering.) It was your Lord and Master who said
this—he who hatched you for three weeks.--( Laughter. )
These were the Noble Duke's very words, and it was not alone
in an Irish voce I heard this avowal made—l heard it
in a strong Cumberland accent. Yes—they have been tried
and convicted and they got a respite; they were permitted to
put in a new species of defence. Did not the Right Hon.
Gentleman ( Sir J. Graham) hear them indicted, yes, anti
convicted too, and of what advantage has the
time allowed them been to them ?—Great cheering. )
Will the Right Hon. Baronet's explanation satisfy the House?
We are told that they are on their trial ;be it so. Let the
House take the Speech and his explanation, and I will appeal
to them, whether any verdict could be recorded against them
than that of guilty.—( Continued cheering. )—The Right
Hon. Baronet, in all the simplicity of character, says that he
does not understand the principles of the Reform Bill. If
that be the case, he would not question his unfitness for office.
—( Cheers.) Let any man but look at the speech, and
it must satisfy him that it is the least testimonial
of his incapacity for office. Let us but read the
Speech, what does it recognise ? Merely that there is
an agricultural distress existing, and that only re-
refers to England, and what remedy dees it propose ?
Why, none. It is true, it purposes some relief from local taxa-
tion. Oh, what a contemptible and shabby offer I I will,
Sir, ask any honest Englishman, Ought that to satisfy
him ? And this paltry measure is for England alone. Scotland
and Ireland suffering under an equally agricultural privation,
no remedy is offered.—( Cheers.) Sir, I must say how much
I have to express my surprise at the speech of the President of
the Board of trade. He is now the Member for a county,
and he has taken into his especial care the protection
of the agricultural interests.—( Cheers.) He was formerly
the Member for a borough : he then took an interest in the
commercial interests of the country.--( Laughter.) Thei e
was a scrumble about the Malt Tax. It was, Sir, for
the purpose of catching popularity.--( Hear, hear, hear. )
They promised to make some alteration in local charges
which were mere ideal. Many, very many, have got into the
House under the pretence of being friends to the agricultural
interests. They say to the people, we will protect your in-
terests, and it is only us that are capable of doing so. Was
there ever such a delusion practised ?—( Cries of " No, no,"
from an Hon. Member. )

Mr. O'CONNELL—I thank the Hon. Member for cor-
recting me, and if he does not think so, why does not come
and vote on this side of the House.—(Cheers.) The Hon.
Member who contradicted him seem to say it as an
honest man who would say " Speed the plough."—( Cheers. )
with respect to the malt tax, will the Government sup-
port the rer:,7al of the malt tax ? Will the section support the
repeal of the malt ? Will the tail support the repeal of
the malt tax ? Shall we gd tail to tail on the malt
tax.?—( Great cheering and laughter.) Put the country
has already been deluded on the malt tax, and is will at