The Sun.
London, England, 1832-05-09 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 9, 1832

it hoped the Noble Lord wool I persevere in the rest o!
,is motion, and that every Member who had flattered the
ieople with the hope of Reform would come forward and
xpress themselves fully and earnestly upon that occasion.
--(Cheers.) He knew of no circumstances which male
,r, more necessary that the vtice of the House should be
node known than the present, and it was essential that
i- should be known before a new Administration was
ierfected--(Cheers)—in order that they might not
have persons incompetent to the duties of office, and that
the country might not again be thrown into confusion.
Mr. LABOUCHERE entreated the Noble Lord to per-
sist in his motion.—(Loud cheers.) He was convinced,
:f at this crisis they shrunk from their duty, and if they
arove,l false to their constituents, that the greatest
ialarnity would result. He expressed his most
ardent hope that the Noble Lord would not ra-
react his motion. If the House did but do that duty
which the country expected they should do, the present
,infortunate intelligence would be received certainly with
sorrow, but at the same time calmly and peace lily ; but if
the House did not put itself where, as representatives of the
people, they should do, viz., in the front of the battle,—fur
they had now come to the point of battle—(Cheers)—if
they were such cravens as to permit a Government, which
had honestly and fearlessly stood by the country upon the
subject of the Reform Bill, driven from their seats by the
other House of Parliament, he, for one, would have the
most melancholy anticipations as to what would result ,
throughout the country.—(Loud cheers.) He was-con-
vinctal. that all would be safe to the country if the House
did its duty ; but if they shrunk from it, or delayed per-
forming it, he feared such scenes would occur as every
man would shudder to think of.
Mr. O'CONNELL differed from the Hon. Member for
Middle-ex, when he said the wishes of the people had been
frustrated. If they were true to themselves, their wishes
could not be frustrated. They had expressed their wishes
in the most emphatic manner, by returning a Reformer
wherever there was an open election to be had. The
question now was, whether they would shrink from
the contest before them,—whether a Inrouglimongering
faction--a corrupt oligarchy, which had filched their
rights from the people, by sending nominees into this
House, should still prevent them from exercising those
rights. If the people of England were but true to them-
selves, they would have Reform. If the people of- Scotland
insisted upon Reform, they must have it, for they had never
yet insisted upon any thing which they had not obtained.
With their good broad swords they had won far them-
selves religious liberty, and with their good broad swords,
if it were now necessary, he doubted not they would raise
for themselves political independence. The people of
Ireland would not, he would answer for them, shrink
from their share of the constitutional contest.—(Hear.)
He trusted the Noble Lord (Ebrington) would persevere
in his motion for to-morrow, if it were only for the sake
of giving gentlemen who had been voting for Reform an
opportunity of showing, as he doubted not they would
show, that that vote was sincere. Let them by their
to• morrow's vote firmly but respectfully show iris Ma-
jesty, that his truly loyal subjects, those who had
been the minor instruments in establishing his dynasty,
were also those who were most determined to see the peo-
ple restored to their rights.
Mr. JAMES begged to ask the Noble Lul' whether
the public report, that the advice Ministers tendered to his
Majesty, which had occasioned their resignation, was to
create Peers, was a correct report 2—(Cheers.)
Lord ALTHORP said, that he did not think himself
at liberty to state what the advice tendered to his Majesty
was.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BARING--When gentlemen talked of the agita-
tion of the country, requiring them to entertain the mo-
tion
of which notice was given for to-morrow, he would ,
v. nture to suggest to them all the agitation might be ,
of their own creating._( Cheers from the Opposition.) He
would not anticipate the debate of to-morrow, but he
would venture to hope that whilst the House justified its
own opinions, it would respect that of other Committees
of the legislature, and that whilst they did not behave
like "crabeus," neither should they behave like bullies.—
(Hear, hear, hear. He rose, howver, principal:), to
suggest to the Noble Lord whether it was ,

not tit that he should follow the course customary upon
such uccasions, and state to the House what that advice
was the rejection of which by his Majesty had occasioned
the breaking up of the administration. He was old enough
to recollect that in :807, on the dissolution of the then

Government, the Minister of the Crown explained the na-
ture of the advice which had been given, and detailed the
grounds on which the administration was compelled to retre.
At present, except from rumour out of doors, they literally
knew noffiing. All they knew was, that certain advice
had been tendered to his Majesty, which his Majesty re-
, ecting, Ministers resigned. Was this sufficient to justify
all the extravagant cheering they had heard of the conduct
of Ministers on the one hand, and the denunciations of that
of his Majesty on that of the other.—(Cries of " No, no,"
and " Hear.") They were not there to enhance the per-
sonal acts of his his Majesty ; but Ministers came to
make a sort of complaint—(Cries of " No, no")—or
statement, which was merely decorous to the Crown
whilst they were kept in ignorance of what that advice
was, the rejection of which made gentlemen exclaim with
so much indignation. Gentlemen who so indignantly
cheered he took it for granted knew what that advice
was, knew whether the imperative demand made
upon his Majesty was to create 60, 70, or more Peers.
[lad such advice been tendered, he must say that
it was the most unconstitutional, the most outrageous,
he could imagine it possible to be offer d, and
he was much mistaken in the feelings of the people of
England, if the great majority of them, instead of par-
ticipating in the feelings of his Hon. relation opposite, did
not feel gratitude to the Crown for resisting so unheard
of a violation of the Constitution.—(Cheers from the
Tories.)
Colonel DAVIES said, although wished as much for
Reform as the Honourable Gentleman who preceded
him, was opposed to it, yet he concurred with him in
thinking that Ministers ought in justice to his Majesty,
to give some explanation of the nature of the advice

they tendered to him.--(Cheers.) They could
not now tell whether they had given constitutional advice,
er under some extravagant excuse which it was impossible
for his Majesty to grant. They had always been
given to understand that his Majesty was ready
to support his Government on the question of Reform,
and a slur and odium would now be thrown upon the
King if the advice tendered by the Government were not
stated to them. He had heard several versions of that
advice rumoured. The Honourable Gentleman who
preceded him had spoke of the creating of 60 Peers, but
he had heard that the demand made upon his Majesty
was still more extravagant.--(Hesr, hear.) It had been
currently reported by some persons that his Majesty was
asked to give Ministers carte blanche to create 100
Peers, if it were necessary. Now, he should say that his
Majesty was perfectly justified in refusing carte blanche to
any Minister for such an exercise of the prerogative of the
Crown,--(Hear.) _ _

Sir ROBERT PEEL concurred in what had fallen
from the Gallant Colonel and his Noble Friend who had
preceded him, that it was essential the House of Com-
mons should understand tie cause of the dissolution
of ,the administration.—(Hear, hear.) He would not
urge the Noble Lord now to +tate what the advice
given to his Majesty, was, but be was sure, that upon re-
flection: the Noble Lord would pursue that course
which had been pursued under similar circumstances by

his predecessors, vie. solicit the permission of his Majesty to
explain in detail the circumstances which had led to his

resignation. Common justice required that before they
took a step of the utmost importance in a crisis of particu•
lar difficulty, Ministers should explain, as they might do
with perfect safety the cause of the dissolution of the Mi-
❑istry. It would be improper to ask the Noble Lord uow
to mplie any such disclosure, but he repeated, he was
sure lie must see the propriety of obtaining his Majesty's
permission to do so.—(Cheers.)
Mr. JAMES begged to s.iy that be had asked the
question for the sake of the public, but entertained quite dif-
ferent sentiments from the Right Hon. Baronet or Gallant
Colonel who had just spoken. He thought the most just and
constitutional advice which could have been tendered to

his Majesty, would have been to create any number of
Peers that might have been necessa:y to carry the Reform
Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He was aware that such
was not the opinion of the Anti-Refoamers, but to pre-
vent a collision between the two Houses of Parliament--
(Cries of " Spoke, spole"—he had not uttered half a
dozen words.—(Laughter.)
The cries of " spoke, spoke," here became so loud that
whot was further said by the Hon. Member could not be
heard.

Mr. DUNCOMBE hopod the Nuble Lord (Member for

Devon) would persist inhis motion and the call of the House
.Iwhich he had given notice. It was necessary to see
rhether there were any waverers in the House, and who
'Ley were. The isoble Lord (the Chancellor of the Ex-
ehequer) would he guilty of a breach of confidence, if
veithoat his Majesty's permission, be told them what
advice it was he had given, but had said enough to satisfy
the country that it was to the effect that Reform Bill
should suffer no mutilation. He was satisfied that the
:,eople would stand by the Noble Lord, and the Hor

11. tuber for Hertford (Mr. Baring) might be assoree
ri at the agitation he deprecated wonld be contineae as
it ought until the G.,vernment was replaced in those ands
fr,in which it had been wrested by the grossest hypocrisy
and treachery.—(Loud cheers).
Lord ALTHORP hoped that he had male himself
understood in the explanaaion which he had offered ; he
was not aware of cue expression of his which conk' be
c.aistrued into disrespect of his Majesty. Wit! regard tr
what had fallen from a Right lion. Centlema pposite,
he did not at present feel himself authorised tt, say rm re
than he had done. He did not mean ta give any pledge
that he would make an further statement at any future
time, but he had stated a 1 that he at present felt himad
allowed to do. At the last change of Ministry there wet
so rn,ny different contradictory reports abroad,
that it might have been necessary, in order
to allay the public mind, to consult his Majesty with regard
to the explanations that should he made in that House,
Istifitthis time no such necessity existed. He begged once
more to disclaim having urged an j thing at all approachint
disrespect to his Majesty.
Mr. MACAULEY rose to offer his humble testimony
to the tauth of the statement made by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer—that he had not made
use of one word of disrespect towards his Majesty. He
repudiated the words that had been used by an lion. Gen-
tleman opposite, that a Member of that House, who had
said he was sorry that a particular Ministry had resigned ;
that he was sorry that those resignations had been ac-
cepted, was acting without respect to his Majesty. He
hoped and beseeched the Noble Member for Devonshire
to persevere in his motion.

Mr. BARING explained.
Lord MILTON was obliged to say a few words in an-
swer to what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet
(Sir R. Peel), who had said that the choice of Ministers
was a mere personal act of the Crown. If that was al-
lowed to be the case, there was an end to the responsi-
bility of Ministers.
Sir R. PEEL said it was the fact alit the choice of
Ministers was a mere personal act of the Crown. When
a man accepted office when it was offered to him, then he
became responsible ; still thai did not make it less a per-
sonal act of the Crown.

Mr. HUNT hoped that before going into the de-
bate, of which notice had been given by the Noble
Lord (Ebrington), that it 'mould be known what the
facts were which baud 1,11 to the resignation of the Min-
istry. The people of England would blame some one ;
either the Ministry must bear that blame, or it would be
transferred to his Majesty. If the King had never been
prepared to pass that Bill, the people of England had been
most grossly deceived by the cry which had been rain d
by the supporters of Government of " Our Reforming
King." If such had been the crse, the Ministry were,
and would yet be told of is by the people, guilty of most
grossly deluding them. If the King bad altered his
mind, the case would be differenl.
Lord EBRINGTON said, after all that he had beard
from all parts of the House, he still felt it was his duty to
persevere in the motion of which he had given notice. He
was anxious to see such a state of affairs as would
allow his 111,j, sty to carry on the Government of the
country peaceably. Many strange reports had been cir-
culated wiehin these few days of " waverers " in that
House, and he felt that it was necessary--he felt that it
was his duty, whether thes.., reports were true or false.
He would not call for the penalties on those who
were at a distance from town, but against those
who were within reach of the notice, he certainly would
press, it. He therefore felt it his duty to peresevere in
motion, in order to show to the country what the
real state of feeling in that House was.

Most of the Members retired when his Lordship sal
down.

The Uniformity of Process Bill was raad a second time.
(LErT SITTINQ.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
RESIGNATION OF MINISTERS.

There was a large attendance of Peers en both sides of
:he House considerably before five o'clock. It was evi-

dent that some important statements were to be made.
Earl GREY entered the House at 10 minutes past five
o'clock. He held in his hand several petitions. He had
hardly sat a minute before a messenger arrived, requiring
his attendance in the ante-room. After an absence of two
minutes his Lordship returned to the Treasury Bench.
The Duke of Sussex, Lord Durham, the Duke of Rich-
mond, and Lord Goderich, were also on the same bench.
The LORD CHANCELLOR entered the House at a
quarter-past five o'clock.

_
Earl GREY immediately rose and presented seven peti
tions in favour of Reform, and one praying for the aboli.
tion of tithes.
RESIGNATION OF MINISTERS.

Earl GREY, a'ter he had named the quarters from
whence he held the petitions in his hand, said—Now,
my Lords, after what passed in this House on
Monday night, and the result of that night's
debate, your Lordships will probably be prepared for the
information which it is now my duty to give. The result
of that decision certainly was such as to reduce me to
the alternative, either, in conjunction with my, colleagues,
of at once withdrawing ourselves from his Majesty's
service, or of tendering to his Majesty our advice,
which then appeared justified by the necessity of the
case, to take such means as might insure the success of
the Reform Bill now before your Lordships, or in the
event of that advice being refused, to tender humbly and
respectfully our resignations. My Lords, the last alter-
native we, after much consideration, adopted. We offered
that advice to his Majesty which we thought our duty
in the circumstances of the times required, and the alter•
native submitted to his Majesty has been accepted by him,
and he has graciously accepted our resignations—at the
same time honouring us with the fullest expression
of the approbation of our services during the
time we have been in his Majesty's Councils, and
during which we certainly have received from his Majesty
a confidence and support, for which I must he thankful
during the whole time I have yet to live. My Lords,
under these circumstances then, we now, having given
in our resignations, and those resignations having been ac-
cepted, only hold our offices till our successors cut be ap-
pointed ; and under these circumstances, my Lords, I think
your Lordships will see the propriety of our not proceed-'
ing with any public business, on which anything like a
difference of opinion or contest should arise, until'
a new Administration shall have been formed. I shall, there-
fore, not propose to-morrow to proceed with the Committee
on the Reform Bill. But to-night there is an order of the
day for the consideration of a Bill of great public import-
ance—l mean the Bill for a new regulation of the offices
of the Admiralty and the Navy. My Lords, this is a Bill,
as I have stated, of great public importance, which has
received the sanction of persons of the highest autho-
rity, not now in his Majesty's service. It was of
great moment that that Bill should pass with as little
delay as possible. The 14th has been the day fixed
by those who brought the Bill up front the Com-
mons, for the operations of the Bill commencing.
If, therefore, there is no material objections to be taken
to this Bill, my
Noble Friend behind me will propose to
proceed with it. If there should be any objections to it,
this, like other matters, on which questions may arise,
must be deferred in propriety, till an opportunity is af-
forded of considering what shall arise, after the formation
of a new Government. This being the state of
circumstances, my Lords, I trust your Lordships will
concur with me in the propriety of defering for the
present the consideration of all such matters, as are likely
to considerable difference of opinion.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH—My Lord, with respect to
that Bill to which the Noble Earl has last alluded, I think
it very likely that there may arrive considerable difference
G —After what I have stated, my Lords, my
of opinion, therefore, I would suggest that the considera-
tion of it should also be defered.
Earl GREY
__After
of goirg on with it now could of course only
depend on the pleasure of your Lo.dships. I have no ob-
jection to its being postponed, at the saute time the Noble
Lord opposite will see the impossibility of the operations
of the Bill coming into effect by the time it bas been men-
tioned.
The LORD CHANCELLOR presented a petition from