The Sun.
London, England, 1832-01-28 00:00:00

Lord with respect to the preponderance of the agricultural
interest in those counties, atad instanced Cambridgeshire,
where the potver of the town of Cambridge throughout
the county was so great, that it must always return one of
the Members.

After a few words from Colonel SIBTLIORP6, Lord
Mwroii, and Mr. l'titcrltzr, the gallery was cleared for
a ; but the Committee ultimately agreed to insert
" three" in the blank."

On our return to the gallery we found the Chairman
putting the question on the pace ?tatiSe, that two Mem-
bers instead of one be gieen to Caermarthen, Denbigh,
and Glamotgan ; but on this question the Committee aban-
doned the English Reform Bill, and applied itself forthwith
to a consideration of the Scott+.

Mr. R. A. DUNIDAS hoped the Noble Lord would
inform them why it was th it these Welsh counties were
to have two Members, while many of the counties of
Scotland, with treble their population, were to haVe ohly
one Member ?—(1-I.ar.)
Lord ALTHORN replied. that the question of giving
additional reprotentatives to Wales was a very different
one from that of increasing the representation of Scot-
land. The increase given to the Scotth counties was not,
it should be recollected, at the expense of Scotland, but
at the expense of tilgland and Wales; and he really did
not think it was necessary for him to enter more fuly into
the reasons why the Scotch counties were to have but Oe
Member.

Mr. DUNDAS stid the thsWer of the Noble Lord
confirmed him to the opinion he had before held, that
equal justice was not done to Scotland is the arrangement
of a 2 new Constitution.—(Hear.)
Mr. C. FERGUSSON was ale.) of opinibn that the
Noble Lord's explanation was any thing but satisfactory.
As long as the proportions settled at the Union, were pre•
served) Scotland, although she felt herself not duly repre-
ttnted, could not complain ; but the moment that settle-
ment was abandoned, the moment the principle ivas in-
fringed on, she was in a condition to demand a fair allot-
ment in the settlet',.elft ot the new system of representa-
tioutlear, hear ) When the old principle was aban-
doned, and the Noble Lord set about the re-modelling the
whole representation of the empire, he should take into
his consideration the whole of the constituency) and look
not to England and Wales apart from Scotland or Ireland,
but to Scotland in contyetion with the whole of the em
pire.—(neak, hear.)
bed iONN RUSSELL acknowledged that there was
truth in the Hon. Member's objection, and that the Go-
vernment had been guilty of some imprUdence in not con-
fining itself to the numbers of the representation of Scot-
land and Ireland, as it was fixed at their union with
England.t—(l-lear, hear.) But he would ask whether the
Reforming Members of those kingdoms were the persons
to turn round on the Government and say, " We will
make you repent your liberality—we will make you rue
your misplaced generosity, and feel it would have been
better ybu had never exposed yourself to attack for having
intended to confer on yeu a benefit."—(Hear, hear.) He
(Lord J. Russell) had never complained of the Anti.
Reformers when they attacked the additions to the Scotch
and Irish representation. In them it was fair and con
.intent ; but he would say to those engaged with the Go-
vernment in carrying a measure of Reform, that it was
neither fair nor just on their part to indulge in reproaches
on that head, and that they should consider the situation
in which the Government stood, not with reference to
what esch Member might consider best to be done, but
with reference to tl e ultimate success of the cause in
wl ich they were engaged.—(Hear, hear.) He thought,
however, the Hon. Member forgot that the Scotch bo-
roughs were to have eight additional Members.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON claimed the right to express his
opinions on the Reform question, in defiance of the ani
inadversiona of the Noble Lord—(Hear, hear)-0-e only
judges of the propriety of his conduct being that House,
his constituents, and the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. DIXON hoped that Ministers would find means to
increase the representation of the large counties of Scotland.
Mr. PRINGLE contended that all the parts of the em-
pire ought to be treated on an equal footing.
Sir G. CLERK defended the propriety of putting in
the claims of Scotland on this occasion, because, if this
Bill passed without the claim being made, the Members
for that country would lose the only opportunity for mak-
ing their claim. The Members for Scotland wanted no-
thing from the generosity of his Majesty's Ministers ; hut
they boldly threw themselves on the justice of the House.
There was a general feeling in Scotland that that country
was not fairly treated by that Bill.—(Hear.)
Mr. GILLON deprecated this discussion, and deel-►red
that the people of Scotland were pleased not only with the
additional Members, but still more with the alterations that
were to be made in the franchise. The Hon. Gentleman
opposite, he believed in his conscience, only made these re-
marks with a view to defeat this Bill.

Mr. DIXON denied, in the most unequivocal manner,
that he made any remarks with a •iew either to delay or
defeat this etcellent Bill.

Sir GEORGE MURRAY claimed an increase of re-
presentation for the agricultural population of Scotland;
and insisted that justice would not he done to that country,
unless it received an additional Member for each of the
large counties. Ireland, too, he believed would not have
justice done to her unless ber Members now insisted on it.
Mr. STANLEY said that the gentlemen opposite, who
had all along opposed Reform, were now become the advo-
cates of the extension of the rights of the people, and the
advocates for equal representation.—( Hear.) He appealed
to the friends of the measure who represented Scotland,
not to oppose the English Bill, as that must be a means of
stopping Reform altogether, though they only wished to
obtain greater advantages for Scotland.—(Hear, hear.)
He was surprised at the inconsistency of the Hon. Gentle-
men opposite, who had pledged themselves to General
Gascoyne's motion, and now asked for a diminution of the
number of Members for England, in order to increase
those for Scotland.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. GOULBURN hoped, when complaints were made
of irritating opposition and speeches to provoke delay,
that the House would remember the revolutionary speech
of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. SINCLAIR did not intend to have intruded upon
the patience of the Committee, and should not detain them
many minutes. He was induced to rise, in consequence
of the assertions, repeated from several quarters, that those
Scotch Members, who support the Scotch Reform Bill as
it now stands, would not dare to face their constituents at
the next general election. He paid no tribute of servile
allegiance to his Majesty's Ministers, but owed to them a
debt of cordial gratitude, because he felt convinced
that, without their interposition and their exertions,
the country to which he had the honour to be-
long would have obtained no additional represen-
tatives at all. He should be sorry to requite their
patriotic efforts, by vexatiously disturbing that arrange-
ment which, under all the circumstances of the case, is,
in their judgment, most conducive to the general interests
of the empire. The present Cabinet contained, in his
opinion, the only Statesmen of our day, who would have
had the courage and the honesty to grapple with the difficul-
ties of the question, or who would have rescued the people
of Scotland from that state of political thraldom and de-
gradation which had subsisted during so many centuries,
and from which, in every part of the kingdom, they are
now so anxious to be freed. He rejoiced in the addition
1 which had beeu made to the Members for the principal
towns in Scotland, and the counties would now obtain an
increase, if not to the number of the representatives, at
least to that of their constituency—a boon to which a pa-
ramount importance is attached by the people of Scotland;
the middling—most intelligent classes of which may be
considered as actually called into a state of political exis-
tence by the system which his Majesty's Ministers have
bad the integrity and the wisdom to introduce. Had other
politicians continued in power, he was quite persuaded
they would always have found some self-satisfying rea-
son for letting what they called well, but what he
Galled ill alone. He was at perfect liberty to act in
this Parliament upon those independent principles,
for the same general prevalence of which lie trusted he was
contending when voting for the Reform Bill of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers. But if he should be permitted again to
solicit the suffrages of the county, which he had the honour
to represent, be should ground his chief claim to the re-
newal of their confidence upon the consistent and cheerful
support which he bad felt it his duty to give to this Pleas
sure, both in its principles and in its details.
Sir C. WETHERELL thought that the attacks made
by the Ministers upon gentlemen on that (the opposition
side) were entirely unprovoked. He did not blame them
for being a little out of humour after the division of last
night. But be thought, that if the Right Hon. Gentle-
man could not succeed better in suppressing agitation in
Ireland than in that House, the sooner he withdrew from
the Government of that country the better. He would
not prolong the discussion ; but, whatever effect his re-
marks might have had, they at least had not disturbed the
rest of his Hon. Friend the Chairman.—(Shouts of
laughter, which awoke Mr. Bernal.)
After the laughter had subsided, the question was put
upon the clause as amended, which being agreed to, the
Chairman left the Chair, and the House resumed.

Lord ALTHORP moved that the House, at its rising,
should adjourn to Tuesday.
The Corporate Funds Bill was read a third time and
passed.

CONTAGIOUS DISEASES.
The Bill for the better preventing the spread of conta-