The Sun.
London, England, 1835-09-24 00:00:00

CHURCH-RATES.

BUNGAY,ST. MARY.
On Tuesday, the 22d inst., a Vestry meeting was called
in this parish by the Churchwardens, Messrs. Scott and
Gower, to make a Church-rate for the present year, and
was attended by the principal Churchmen of the town.
Before the Chair was taken, it was suggested that all
who were not rate-payers should withdraw.
Mr. BOBBIT, the late Churchwarden, said Mr. Charles
Childs is not a rate-payer.
Mr. C. CHILDS—You had better examine the rate-book,
where you will find that lam duly assessed. You show
your animus without your power.
The Rev. Archdeacon Glover, the perpetual Curate; who
was informed by Mr. Cuddon's letter, already published,
that the meeting would be held, was not present, and Mr.
COBB, his deputy, took the Chair.
Mr. S. SCOTT then rose, and stated that in pursuance of
his official duty, he should state what sum would be neces-
sary to defray the legal expenses of the Church during the
present year, and in doing this he begged to say they (the
Churchwardens) were only carrying into effect Ile law as
they ffiund it ; that they were sanctioned in this proceed-
ing by the usage of 200 years ; and thP` in calling for this
legal and necessary rate, they wer.- doinc, nothing to dis-.'
turb the peace of the town, h"..:t that such disturbance
be charged on those who ',lad opposed the rate in tit; way
they had done. Hp 4:nen read the items of estiumted ex-
pense, among wLich were the following:—

s. d.
For Archdeacon's Visitation
Sweeping Church
Washing Surplices .. .112 0
Sacramental Wine
Brushes, Dusters, &e.
Keeping the Church-yard
R. BUTCHER, Esq., moved that a,rate of 3d. in the pound
be granted.
Rev. T. BEWICKE seconded it.
The CHAIRMAN asked whether any gentleman had any
amendment to propose ?—when the
Rev. JOSEPH WILSON, Catholic Priest, mse, and stated
that he had no amendment to offer, but attended for the
purpose of using his best efforts to all:4y the irritation which
existed in the town, which it Was impossible to conceal,
and which, if again set into action, would arouse all the
opposition of last years :Ind bring the same scenes to be re-
enacted. This was a state of things which he should ex-
ceedingly deplore, and in order to avert it, he begged in all
charity to propose—to suggest to the members of the
Church—that they should make a voluntary subscrip-
tion in the town to defray their own expenses, and remove
the necessity of this rate. To show the spirit by which.
am actuated, said Mr. Wilson, I will gladly bind myself
n6w to subscribe, every.year, until the question is settled by
the LegiMature, double the amount at which I am now
assessed ; and thus to show with what satisfaction I should
witness so just a proceeding. I know that many others
who think with me, will follow my example ; and I do most
respectfully put it to this vestry, whether they will not accept
and act on my suggestion, in the same spirit of peace with
which it is offered. To the principle which actuated the.
opposition of last year I assented, because we, who dog
not participate in your services, have a strong and irrepres-
sible feeling, that it is unjust to charge us with their
expenses.

The Rev. Mr. Coup interrupted the speaker, to remark
that he had himself contributed to support the Catholic
Church in a foreign country, and thought it his duty to
support whatever Church was established.
Mr. WILSON—The injustice was equal wherever, or by
whomsoever, it was committed, and although itmight be
silently endured while the numbers of Dissenters were
small, or their influence not extensive, it would of neces-
sity excite opposition where, as in this country, they com-
posed so large a proportion of the numbers and intelligence
of the people. Here, especially, continued Mr. Wilson,
the injustice is admitted by all parties, for all agree that
Church-ratesr must be speedily abolished by the State.
Surely, in order to avoid such angry contests a..., this rate
will engender, you will consent to anticipate the laws for
one year, and accept the suggestion which,, in the spirit of
peace, I have thrown out to you.
Mr. JOHN CUDDON rose t? 'express his approbation of
the suggestion made by Mr-. Wilson. He was an old in-
habitant of the town who had hitherto lived in quietness
and peace, and he been exceedingly distressed by what
had taken place 'Last year. He did most anxiously hope the
same thinp:,
7, would not be done again, and although not a
churitiman, he would gladly bind himself to Mr. Wilson's
offer, and pay to a voluntary subscription twice the amount
of his Church-rate.

Mr. BENJAMIN SAYER said he thought it had much
better be passed on for one year. "We had better let it
pass this year, and then the question will be settled."
Several parishioners, who understood Mr. Sayer to pro-
pose that the rate should stand over, seconded his remark,
but on being-hsked what he meant by letting it pass, Mr.
Sayer replied that the Dissenters had better pay the rate.
Mr. SAMUEL SCOTT said he fully participated in the
feelings of the gentlemen who had spoken, but as a parish
officer, he had nething to do but to put the law in opera-
tion. He must, however, remark that as these gentlemen of-
fered to subscribe towards the expenses of the church, they
could have no objection to pay the amount of their church-
rate assessed for the same purpose. He could only say
that to collect a subscription was no part of his duty as
a churchwarden, but that if any person would guarantee
him the sum required for the church, he should not be
called upon to propose a rate.
The Rev. JOSEPH WILSON said, now I see a glimpse of
peace for the parish. The churchwarden has declared his
readiness to accept a voluntary subscription ; and now let
some churchman rise, and offer to conduct one—to go
round the parish—to collect the sums which, on such a
plan, nearly all will be willing to offer. Let not such a
favourable chance of peace be lost. I myself, did I not
sustain so peculiar an office, would gladly undertake it. I
hope we are approaching a peaceful settlement.
This proposition was received only with some confused
remarks, such as, " We are not so fond of going round,"
&c. ! and Mr. W. Dyball asked, " Do you think we are
going to pay for you ?" No other answer being made,
the Chairman put the original question, when Mr.
Charles Childs read the following protest, which had been
prepared by the Church-rate Committee :

' " PROTEST.
" That it is wholly at variance with Christian equity, for
one religious sect to erect its places of worship, or conduct its
public services, at the expense of any other sect.
" That the levying of Church rates is an injustice which
Dissenters have too long endured, and which religious men
will not defend by the existence of an unjust law, nor enforce
by an appeal to it.
" That these dissentients protest earnestly against granting
a Church rate in this parish, and committing to the church-
wardens the power of consigning their townsmen to prison,
under the pretext of upholding religion.
" That if the vestry, notwithstanding this Protest, proceed
to make a rate, these dissentients pledge themselves to use all
lawful means to prevent the adoption of illegal or oppressive
measures against any of their members.
" That these resolutions be communicated to the vestr; as
the Protest of the Bungay Church-rate Conlmittee., "
Mr. ROBERT WHITE begged the Churchwar:tens to post-
pone the rate for a while, until the exPe):.anent of a sub-
scription had been made, as if this faile?,, they bad at any
time the power of calling for a lee-. rate in vestry.
Rev. Mr. Com—lf we were to accept such a proposi-
tion, it would afterwards be 11:ang in our faces with insult.
Mr. CHARLES CHILP:i—Your Churchwarden has ad-
mitted that he is not compelled by law to make a rate ; he
has offered to forego the legal provision, if you (the Church-
men) will sur: he has
P ly
him with funds. By so doing,
placedll-.e matter entirely on your own voluntary efforts,
a1(1:it remains wholly with yourselves to determine whether
if on principle you will not concur, good taste, and a re-
gard to the condition of the parish, will not have some
weight in your determination.

_
As the question was being carried, Mr. WILSON again
begged that some Churchman would adopt his suggestion,
but finding this unavailing, he warned the Churchwardens
and the Vestry that all the ill-blood of the last year would
now be set in action on both sides. He assured them that
there were many who, although they had not attended this
meeting, would follow the example of Mr. John Childs, and
that that gentleman, with his iron mind, would again meet
the question, and if necessary go to prison.
Mr. JOHN BOBBIT, the late churchwarden, started up
and said, it was a question on his mind, whether Mr. Childs
and Mr. Hume had not concerted the whole matter be-
tween them.

Mr. WHITE replied, that if there were any concert, it
must surely have been between Mr. Hume and the church-
wardens.

The rate was then passed, and the meeting broke up.

The Editor of the New York Herald writes upon
the margin of his paper—" Burnt out last night, will resume
in a few days."
A WEALTHY BEGGAR.----On Thursday last John
*Laughlin, a cripple, who moves about in a bowl, in the
costume of a cook, was placed before the Mayor, on the
charge of having been found soliciting alms in an attitude
most persuasive. The constable stated that, when taken to
Bridewell, there was found in his pocket the sum of
4/. ss. 2d. His worship ordered him to be handed over to
Mr. Forward.—Liverpool Standard:
ESCAPE.--As v. gig,. containinz i—
s, - • • ecT terse, WAsn proeeex-
..vvo persons, drawn, . "prn
' -"
terday, between ton . sown Bold-street yes-
or six Yes" "
eleven o'clock, a child about five
uy coming in contact with the horse, and the
1. ...7 mu, in crossing the street, waskernioo.ctkdesodpdasoslevcni
over the little creature ; it was, however, taken up unhurt,
with the exception of a slight bruise, on the arrm—Ltvei-
pool Standard.

-(••• rat

f

POOR INQUIRY-i

IRELATtri..,2‘)/1)
FIRST REPORT::--
TO THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT' MA:J'EtiVei,;—'
SIRE,— We, the Commissioners commanded by your Ma-
jesty " to inquire into the condition of the poorer classes of
your Majesty's subjects in Ireland, and into the various in.
stitutions at present established by law for their relief; and,
also whether any, and what, further remedial measures ,ap-
pear to be requisite to ameliorate the condition of the Irish
poor, or any portion of them," having made very consider-
able progress in the arduous duties entrusted to us, are now
enabled to lay before your Majesty the large body of evi-
dence which has been collected.

This evidence solely relates to the first branch of the in-
quiry which is now complete; namely as tr, the modes in
which the destitute classes in Ireland are supported, to the
extent and efficiency of those modes, aria their effects upon
those who give and upon those win leceive relief.
The Appendix (A) contains parochial examinations rola•
tine to the mo:les of relieving—
Deserted, and orphan children.
children and their mothers.
having families of young children.
neimpotent -trough age or other permanent infirtnity.
The sick poor, who in health are capable of earning their
subsistence.
The able-bodied out of work.
Vagrancy, as a mode of relief.
An examination relative to these subjects was made in
one parish in every barony in each of the followi-ag coun-
ties, seventeen in number 7—.-
CONNAUpHT. LEINSTER. 'MUNSTER. ULP':f ER.
Galway Carlow Clare Antrim
Mayo Kildare Cork . Donegal
Roscommon Longford Kerry Londonderry
Sligo Westmeath Limerick
Wexford Tipperary
To these parochial examinationrs a supplement is annex-
ed, containing answers to nine ri,uestions on these subjects.
The answers are made by the '3lergy of the various persua-
sions, the magistrates, and 'others, from every part of the
country.
The Appendix (B) contains the examinations relative to
hospitals, dispensarie;, and other medical charities.
An examination. was made of every dispensary in each of
the following ce.anties :
CONNAUGHT. itINSTER.
Galway Louth
Roscommon Meath

MUNSTER.
Cork
Kerry

ULSTER.
Armagh
Down'

Wicklow
And of some dispensaries and hospitals, and every infir.
mary hi
CONNAUGHT. LEINSTER.

Antrim
Cavan
Londonderry
Monaghan
Tyrone
To this appendix there is attached a supplement, con-
taining answers by the medical attendants of 413 dispen-
saries, of 56 fever hospitals, and of 33 infirmaries, to 13
questions.

Carlow
Dublin
Kildare
Queen's

MUNSTER.
Clare
Limerick

ULSTER.

The Appendix (C) contains the examinations concern-
ing institutions not medical for the relief of different classes
of the destitute.
These institutions are principally mendicity institutions,
houses of industry, almshouses, and societies for visiting the
destitute, and distributing food, money or clothes, in the
following large towns
CONNA UGIIT. LEINSTER.
Balling Athlone
Castlebar Birr
Galway Drogheda
Loughrea - Dublin
Sligo Dundalk
Tuam

MU NSTEU.
Bandon
Bantry
Clonniel
Cork
Dungarvon
Ennis

ULSTER..
Bolfast
Carrickfergus
Derry
Newry

Kinsale
Limerick
Mallow
Nenagh
Tralee
Waterford
Youghall
Having given this summary of the contents of our Ap-
pendix, we take this opportunity of stating to your Ma-
jesty—

1. The difficulties whiC'h we have had to encounter both
from the extensive and complipated nature of the subject
itself, and from the peculiar social condition of the people
of that portion of your Majesty's dominions in which the
inquiry has been prosecuted.

2. The course which we have pursued in collecting in-
formation ; showing how far it is full and hupartial, and,
therefore, how far worthy of confidence.
3. The reasons why we are not yet enabled to obey your
Majesty's command to report, " whether any and what fur-
ther remedial measures appear to be requisite to ameliorate
the condition of the Irish poor, or any of them."
I. As to the difficulty of the inquiry :
The great proportion of the population about and amongst
whom the inquiry was to be made is constantly f.ttictuatino•
between. mendicancy and independent labour. In whole
districts scarcely one of that class of substantial capitalist
farmers so universal in England can beffond.und. The small
resident gentry are but few, and the substantial tradesman
is not to be met with at intervals of two or three miles, as
in England ; for there are but few towns of sufficient trade
to create such a class. The Clergy of the various persua-
sions, and the proprietors, when resident,. are, in many cases,
SO much at variance with each other, or with the working
population, upon political questions, that great caution was
requisite in regard to the manner and degree in which we
could avail ourselves of their assistance. Similar difficulties.
existed with regard to the constabulary, from the frequent
collision in which they are placed with the people ; and pa.
rochial authorities can' scarcely be said to exist.
In an inquiry about a population in which many of the
ordinary distinctions of society are commonly merged. ire the
same individual, and in an inquiry amongst a 'nipple the
various Classes of whom had long been at vari ,nice with
each other, it became a matter of fearful momet.tt to deter-
mine respecting 'whom the inquiry should lre made, and
from whom testimony could be received, w'tlich would not
merely be impartial, but which would be, admitted by all
to be so ; the one requisite being as, important as the
other. We became quickly and rAinfully alive to the
danger which would attend the slir,-htest error in our pro-
cedure. Did we appear to rely coo much on the Clergy
or laity of any one persuasion,, we were certain to be
accused of political or relift'ious bias. Did we receive
testimony more freely fromthe rich man than from the
poor man, or from the •
poor man than from the rich, we
were certain to be k3:enounced as having prejudged the
subject about whici, we had undertaken impartially to in-
quire.

But great a% 'were these difficulties, great as was the
circumspection which they required, another and yet more
formidable ").afficulty existed. Your Majesty had ci.3m-
rnanded 'US to determine " whether any, and, if any, what
further remedial measures appear to be requisite to me-
liorP.te the condition of the Irish poor, or any portion of
thaem

'fo determine what measures might be requisite to ame-
liorate the condition of the poorer classes in Ireland re-
quired an investigation extending to almost the whole
social and productive system, for the poorer classes in
Ireland may be considered as comprehending nearly the
whole population ; and as no institution is isolates;, in its
effect it is impossible to decide. upon the consec,uence of
removing or creating one law or custom witlviut consi-
dering its connection with every other. It became there-
fore matter of grave importance to deteradue whether so
extensive an inquiry was practicable ; and, if not, what
portion should be chosen ? It also, became necessary
and difficult to decide as to the order in which such an
investigation should proceed—which class of subjects
should be taken first, which last—which were primary
in their effects, which secondary.
•On every side we were assailed by the theoriex of thoso
who were born or had long resided in the country, and con-
sequently might be supposed.to have posse-aeo,
good oppor-
tunity for ascertaining the soundness of-4:heir opinions. One
party Stributed all the poverty and wre:celledness of the coun-
try to an asserted extreme use of arde-At spirits, and proposed a
system for repressing illicit distill`ation, for preventing smug-
gling, and for substituting beer and coffee. Another party
found the cause in the comVAnations amongst workmen, and
proposed rigorous laws against Trades' Unions. Others
again were equally confident that the reclamation of the
bogs and waste lands was the only practicable remedy. A
fourth party decljred the nature of the existing connection
between landlord ant)_ tenant to he the root of all the evil ;
pawnbroking, redur.dant population, absence of capital, pc-
culiar religious tracts and religious differences, political ex.
citement, want of education, the mal-administration el jus-
tice, the state of prison discipline, want of manufactures,
and of inland navigation, with a variety of other circum-
stances, were each supported by their various advocates
with earnestness and ability, as being; either Alone, or jointly
with some other, the primary cause of all the evils of Eq.
cietY ; and loan funds, emigration, the repression of polAiti-
cal excitement, the introduction of manufactures, and the
extension of inland navigation 'were accordingly proposed
each as the principal means by which the improvement of
Ireland could be promotei.
Having so difficult a questlo.l to deal with, and so many-
plausible solutions offcred_, to us, aware that the pubie
would be impatient of a second inquiry, we felt bound, to
use great cone_
order of .lieration in selecting tile subjects and, the
tvestigation. That many, if not all, of tile alleged
"'.uses of evil did exist in a greater or less de-gree was suf
fiently evident ; and that good might arse from some of
the remedies proposed we were not prer;,ared to deny. To
decide, without careful investigation, upon the degree in
which each might be productive of evil or of benefit would
have been at variance with the trust which your Majesty
bad confided to us. We thereure determined: that the
quiry should embrace every subject to which important
seemed to be attached by any large number of persons.
(To be concluded to-morrow.)