The Sun.
London, England, 1859-10-26 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 26, 1859,

MB. ADAM BLACK, .211. P., ON WAGES,
TRADES' UNIONS, AND STRIKES.

On Saturday evening, Mr. Adam Black, M.P.,
delivered a lecture on "Wages, Trades' Unions,
and Strikes," in Dunedin-hall, Edinburgh. The
hall was crowded in every part, upwards of 2,000
kilos present. Among the gentlemen who accom-
parded Mr. Black to the platform was the Right
Hen; Sir John Melville, the Lord Provost.
After a few remarks from Sir JOAN MELVILLE,
who was called fo the chair,
Mr. BLACK rose to address the meeting amidst
loud and prolonged cheering. He spoke at con-
siderable length, but we can only afford space
for a brief condensation of his address. After some
introductory remarks, he said—The subject of
wages, trades' unions, and strikes, is one of very
great importance, as it seriously affects the peace
and prosperity of the country, the accumulation of
capital, and the protection of property ; and it most
especially affects the happiness of the operatives
an I their families. Moreover, it is a question
requiring an attentive consideration of first prin-
ciples, with their bearing upon the common busi-
ness of life ; at the same time, it is one which is
much obscured by the animosities and excited feel-
ings occasioned by the sufferings of both masters
and men in their unhappy contests. be my
endeavour calmly and impartially to examine the
bearings of this question so deeply affecting our
social economy. The value of commodities does not
continue invariable, their price is affected by fluctua-
tion in abundance or scarcity. The price of corn,
for example, is always varying from this cause.
When a.plentiful harvest has thrown a larger than
ordinary quantity into the market, then there will
be a competition among the sellers to procure theur-
chasers, and rather than keep their wheat n
stackyard the farmers will offer it at a lower price,
and when the price is reduced to such a rate as will
induce a sufficient number of buyers to take up the
quantity to be disposed of, then the price will have
adjusted itself according to the supply and demand.
On the other hand, in the event of a deficient crop
and a scarcity of corn, then, as there would be a
demand for a greater quantity than was brought to
market, purchasers would compete and overbid one
another to secure the desired quantity. So with all
goods ; they will command prices relative to their
scarcity or abundance, and if left to a free market
they will as surely adjust themselves according
to the supply and. demand as water will rise
to its level ; and all attempts to force prices
to an unnatural level, or to protect certain pro-
ductions, have been. attended with disastrous con-
sequences. The only important trade that never was
subjected to the infliction of protection was the cot-
ton trade, and none has risen to such gigantic mag-
nitude, and afforded occupation to so many hundreds
of thousands, and on which have been raised so
many princely fortunes. Experience has incontes-
tibly proved that perfect freedom in buying and
selling is most advantageous for all parties, and that
everything in the nature of monopoly or restriction
or interference with production must be injurious to
the public, and generally without benefit to the
parties for whose advantage they were intended.
Labour is as much an article of commerce as corn or
sugar. Money or capital is likewise an
In article of
commerce. Both are necessary to production. all
great works many must be employed who can con-
tribute nothing but labour ; eapital,however, is ab-
solutely necessary to procure materials and imple-
ments, and to support the workmen till the manu-
facture is completed and sold, and the money received
for the goods. If capital be necessary for the employ-
ment of labour, labour is equally necessary for the
employment of capital. Capital is always seeking
to employ labour, and it is the business of the capi-
talist to find out the occupation which will yield
the greatest return with security. And according
to the risk and the agreeable or disagreeable nature
of the speculation engaged in, will a higher or a
lower interest be expected; but where trade is
free, the returns from the employment of labour
will on an average bear a uniform value, modified
by circumstances. Skilled labour, for example, or
what: requires years of preparatory instruction, will
be paid higher than unskilled labour, so as to remu-
nerate for the time and expense employed in prepa-
ration for business. Other circumstances will modify
the wages of labour, such as continuous or inter-
rupted employment, healthy or unhealthy occupa-
tion,or other peculiarities ; but wherever the occupa-
tions are of a similar character, and the profits equal,
the wages of labour will likewise be equal. If, under
particular circumstances, profits should be greater in
one trade than the average, then capital and labour
will be attracted to that trade till they reach the
average level. A question arises, what proportion
of the profit of the manufacture should go to the
capitalist, and what to the operatiVe. The interest
of money, like the price of every other commodity,
rises and falls in the market in proportion to its
abundance or scarcity—in other words, if there be
a greater demand for the use of money than usual,
the competition for loans will cause a rise in the in-
terest. On the other hand, if money is more abun-
dant, and the demand limited, the interest will fall.
Let us assume that the average rate of interest is 5
per cent. when laid out on good security and without
trouble to the capitalist. If a capitalist, having
£lO,OOO, is desirous of speculating with it, so as to
bring him in a larger return than ordinary interest,
lie may invest it in a cotton-mill, or in building a ship,
or in publishing books, or in any other specnlation ;
but, as all trading or commercial speculations are
liable to greater risks than money lent on good se-
curity, and as trade demands careful superintend-
ence, he is entitled to a return considerably higher
than he would receive from the funds, or from lend-
ing it on the security of property. Supposing,
then, the ordinary rate of interest to be 5 per cent.,
a prudent man would not engage in a manufactu-
ring or mercantile speculation unless it promised at
least 8 or 10 per cent. ; say, then, that during the
year he employed 20 men at 203. a week, the wages
year the men would be £l,o4o—the interest of his
money at 8 per cent. would be £BOO, from which
he would have to pay insurance, bad debts, and
small items, and he would require sonic remunera-
tion for his own skill and superintendence, say
double the wages of a common workman, £104;
then, to render this speculation worth carrying on,
it ought to yield an annual profit of £1,914 ; and if
it was a work requiring £lOO,OOO, and employing 200
men, then the annual returns should be just ten times
greater.,lt would be rash to speak positively on this
subjects, as profits are effected by so many acciden-
tal circumstances, but this estimate will serve to
explain the nature of the transaction. Let us see
then what would be the effect of the 20 workmen
demanding a rise in their wages from 20s. to 255.
This would be an additional deduction from the pro-
fits of £260 annually, which would reduce the re-
turn on the capital employed to £540, or little
more than the interest on money lent on property ;
in which case, if the capitalist were a prudent man,
he would as soon as possible withdraw from the
trade, and the men would be thrown idle. If the
capital of the country were to increase more rapidly
than the population, then the division of the profit
on capital would decrease, and the proportion drawn
by labour would increase, and vice versa ; for, as
money becomes more abundant, the interest is con-
sequently lowered—there is a greater inducement
to invest in more remunerating speculations, such
as trade and commerce—there is a greater demand
for men to carry on the new undertakings, and the
competition for workmen increases their wages.
This shows how advantageous it is to the operative
classes that capital should increase, as of necessity
they must share in its benefits. We sometimes hear
ill-informed reasoncrs speak of capital as antagonis-
tic to labour, whereas it is the very life-blood of la-
bour, and must as certainly circulate through the
whole body of the labourers as the blood from the '
heart circulates to the extremities of the human.
frame. Whatever diminishes the wealth of the capi-
talist injuriously affects the workman. If any sud-
den reverse were to come upon the rich, by which
their wealth was to be annihilated, it would be one
of the greatest calamities that could befall the la-
bouring classes ; the country gentleman Would be
obliged
to pay off his servants ; the improvements on
his estates must be stopped, and those employed on
them discharged; the, manufacturer would not have
the means of carrying his operations and employ-
ing workmen ; the wouldvie have no demand
views on on
often
subjects of
fth
for new houses. Erroneous
which we are now treating
operative classes to regard their employersta lead the
Jealousy, envy, and malevolence ; and the with
em-
ploers to regard the workmen with distrust
while in their occupation, and with neglect when in
ilistress. A true and Christian appreciation of the
value and importance of the relation between master
end servant would induce each to regard the other
with charity—the workman to rejoice in Ll'
.e prospe-
ity of his employer, and the employer to treat his
workmen with justice and kindness. in ordinary
c -‘ses prices are fixed by a kind of huckster iog ; and,
instead of organising a determined contest, were
workmen to threaten to leave. or actually to leave
their masters, unless their demands were agreed to
(but without obstructing or intimidating others), if
circumstances warranted a compliance with their
terms, some masters would agree to them, and others
would be ohligt d to follow their example, as other-
wise they would lose their best men. But if already
wages had reached their proper level, and masters
could not carry on their works with a fair profit—
if a lager proportion was paid away in wages, the
resistance to the demand would be so general that
the workmen 'would find it to be their interest to
accept the largest wages that could be mutually
agreed upon. This would accomplish the same ob-
ject as a strike, in every instance where a strike
would have naturally been successful, without the
disastrous consequences which uniformly attend
thew intestine wars.
the prosperous summer of

1836, the spinners in Glasgow memorialised their
masters for a rise in wages. Trade being brisk and
profits large, the manufacturers were desirous to in-
crease their trade, and there was a competition for
workmen. The advance was therefore readily agreed
to. But by-and-by came the commercial crisis of
January and February, 1857, and prices fell so much
that the masters could not sell with a profit at the
advanced rate of wages, and therefore they proposed
that wages should be restored to the former rate,
which was from 265. to 365. a-week. The workmen
however thought that, contrary to the nature of
things, wages should be kept up at the same rat i
e n
a period of depression as in times of great pros-
perity. They struck work in a body.on the Bth
of April, and continued till the sth of August,
.a.
period of seventeen weeks, when they unani-
mously agreed to return to their work on terms
lower than those first offered by the masters, after
having endured extreme sufferings themselves, and
caused wide-spread misery among others through
this insane strife, which a knowledge of the laws
that regulate wages would have prevented. The
number of spinners in Glasgow in 1837 was between
SOO and 900 ; each of these gives employment to a
certain number of women and girls, about seven for
each spinner—thus about 5000 females were de-
prived of the means of IR-elihood through the folly
.and perverseness of those who ought to have known
better. The total loss to Glasgow during the strike
was £194,540. No doubt combinations of work-
men have been, legalised by the act of 1825, and
very properly so. But if workmen may combine to
fix prices and resolve upon the conditions on which
they will dispose of their labour, even-handed jus-
tice requires, and the law provides, that the same
rights be accorded to the employers. They may
unite to lower the rate of wages, and to agree on
the conditions on which they will engage work-
men. If the workmen may legally have recourse to
a strike to compel a rise of wages, or any other
concession, the employers may also legally resort to
a lock-out to compel a reduction of wages, or an ac-
ceptance of any other terms. While I say this, I by
no means approve of a lock out by the masters.
Both may be legal, but it is very inexpedient, and
very dangerous for either the one party or the other
to exercise this extreme power. It is like the power
of the House of Commons to stop the supplies—a
power which maybe heldup in terrorem, but which
is never exercised. When such intestine national
contests occur, they are accompanied with most of
the evils that attend wars. The country -which is
the theatre of the war is devastated, property is de-
stroyed, multitudes of innocent persons suffer, the
belligerents on each side endeavour to do as much
damage to the other side as possible, disease and
crime and death follow in the track of war ; and
after disaster has done its worst to both parties,
very often from sheer exhaustion they patch up a
peace which leaves both parties in much the same
condition as they were before the beginning
of the conflict. Each party strives to destroy the
property of the other. Multitudes who take no part
in the strike, but desire to remain at peace,
are thrown out of employment. Wives and children
are reduced to beggary, crime becomes more ram-
pant, and disease and death thin their numbers.
This was all painfully illustrated by the great strike
of the colliers in Lanarkshire, Renfrew, and Stir-
ling, in 1837. We have a melancholy instance of
the intense suffering which must often be endured
by the numerous victims of these strikes in the
case of Daniel Lock. a plasterer,' who lately com-
mitted suicide in London, leaving behind him a
paper containing these words :—" The strike—the
ruinous strike; God protect my unfortun ate family."
The rash act of this nnhappy man has made his
case public, but who can tell how many innocent
victims of the pride and folly of others weep in
their desolate homes unheeded and unseen? It is
difficult to procure the printed rules of the different
unions, and when they are procured they are gene-
rally indefinite and defective ; much is left to be
decided by the council. By the last annual report
of the Amalgamated Engineers and their rules as
revised in 1857, the combination purports to be a
friendly society or benefit club only, but the middle
of the preface contains a paragraph in defence of
" restrictions against the admission into our trade
of those who have not earned a right by a proba-
tionary servitude." After enumerating the trades
comprehended within their scheme, the preamble
sets forth its provision of branches. No branch is
to consist of more than 300 members, or to have
more than seven officers, three officers being allowed
to a branch of 20 members ; every member is re-
gistered, age, trade, married or not, that the details
may be recorded in the general registration book
in London. The fines imposed on the members for
neglecting to notify the union authorities their mar-
riage, or removal, or change of service, show the
strictness of supervision under which they are
living. There is nothing like it anywhere else
in this country. The executive council consists of
25 members, appointed by as many branches of
districts, nine of which are in or near London.
The ordinary business is transacted by the coun-
cil of nine London members, five forming a quo-
rum ; their powers are very great and very
vague, and they determine anything wherein the
society's rules are silent. This is in itself a tremen-
dous power. In case of any dispute, the inquirer
may ask what is the rule on the subject; he may
be told there is no ruler, the council settles those
matters on which the rules are silent. He is in the
hands of the council, who may fine him or expel
him if they think proper, and he has no means of
redress. This power, in the absence of law, is
evidently too formidable to be resisted. The central
council avoids the responsibility of taking care of
the funds. It simply draws on the branches for
what it wants to pay expenses, salaries to itself,
grants to strikes, &c. If the central council asks
for maney, the branch must send it, and at the end
of the. financial year the affairs are settled by
equalisations, thus exercising a despotic control
over the funds of the members. Then theipaembers
are liable to numerous fines of 55., 2s. 6d., ls., &c.,
for. not giving information on a multitude of sub-
jects, and several other provisions show that every
man is living under a spy system from the hour
when h e becomes a member, and a victim, of this
despotic organisation. With a working-man who
has entered the trades' union there often occurs
something that he can't do, mustn't do, daren't do,
because it is against rules, or would be found out.
There is always the idea that somebody would tell
on him. The yoke seems to be upon him 'wherever
he goes. If compulsion were only used towards
their own members there would be less room for
complaint, but when it is used to deprive of their
only means of livelihood those who do not belong
to their associations, it is a tyranny more cruel
than that of despotic sovereigns. I shall proceed to
show that trades' unions, as at present managed,
and strikes, are exceedingly injurious, not only to
the country, but to the workmen themselves. I am
unwilling to occupy your time by detailing the
effects of strikes before the passing of Mr. Hume's
Act legalising combinations. Before that time in-
stances of violence, sometimes ending in assassina-
tions, were not uncommon. In 1812, Mr. Horsfall,
an eminent manufacturer, was waylaid and shot by
a band of assassins, and several mills were at
the same time attacked and destroyed. In the
end the combination was suppressed but not until
seventeen of the combined workmen had been
executed at York. I have already alluded to the
loss a
and injury sustained by the workmen and the
public in the strike of the colliers in Lanarkshire
and the adjoining counties. Before the strike their
wages had been raised from time to time to 355. a
week for three days' work of four or five hours a
day only, or 355. for fifteen hours' work—a convin-
cing proof that, when the profit to the capitalist in
any particular line is great, competition among
the masters for workmen will raise wages without
having recourse to a strike. But in 1837, in con-
sequence of the price of iron having fallen from £7
to £4 10s. a ton, the ironmasters found it impos-
sible to carry on their trade while such extrava-
gant wages were paid to the colliers, and offered
them the following terms-30s. a week, working
eight hours a. day. Those terms were immediately
rejected, and the whole colliers in Lanarkshire,
2,000 in number, struck work, and remained unem-
ployed for six months. Their place was partly
supplied by weavers, who ha,l been starving on Bs.
a week. After the loss of six months, the men
were glad to return on the terms offered by their
masters-30s. for 48 hours' labour, instead of 355.
for 15 hours. The town of Preston is celebrated
ifnorthl3e annalsweeks ; of strikes. On the sth November,
1836, the operatives struck, 'and ceased working
8,500 persons ere thrown idle. Of
this number it was said that only 660. spinners
.working, voluntarily
rlcin gcould
leftuld theirnot be
on the spinnerswtohr , the rest,.. being depen-
dent to continue
dent
was estimated that the
.k.
'emoulo:veas without them. It
to Continue at work loss of wages by persons
£.60,361 ; the loss
NtVoi g 6
64 spinners in wages during the turn-out,
£9,652. The total loss to the town and trade of
Preston in this unavailinged struggle was £107,196.
The townlvabseseireon.Nevddby withapplicantsbegga.rs ; the work-
houses were relief;s threeary.
persons were known to have perished fo r
from
starva-
tion ; and after a contest of
five
supplies from
the union altogether months, the
was resunazi on the terms offeracidlint,
y workt
the
masters ; but 200 (or one-third of the spinners)
were obliged to leave the town, their
places being occupied by new-comers. In
18a4
.the operatives of Preston again struck
for a lase of 10 per cent., and, after a contest of seven
months, were glad to return to their work at the
old prices, after again involving hundreds of families
in misery and ruin. The amalgamated engineers,
in the previous year, combined to procure a cessa-
tion of overtime and piecework, and a reduction of
the hours of labour, To this the masters replied

insisting that every man should sign a docu-
'mer.t repudiating all connexion with trades' unions.
.After 15 weeks' battle, and spending £25,000, the
-workmen accepted the terms of the masters. But
it is unnecessary to advert to the other remarkable
strikes and their consequences. They have been
always disastrous to both masters and men, and
injurious to the country. The unionists of many,
other towns have driven away thriving manufac-
turers from their own locality. It may be supposed
that the calamity cannot be very groat if it is only
the removed of a branch of manufacture from one
town to another ; but workmen would do well to
consider that by these frequent strikes they are
playing into the hands of their competitors in Ame-
rica and on the Continent of Europe. Many parts
of Prussia, Saxony, Switzerland, and France, have
extensive and flourishing manufactures ; and now
that communication between one country and an-
other is so easy and rapid, these countries are com-
ing more and more into the market of the world
to compete with the British manufacturer. It ap-
pears from the authentic statements published by
Messrs. Du Fay and Co., of Manchester, than whom
there are no higher authorities on such subjects,
that the demand for raw cotton in 1853 increased
71 per cent. in Germany, Russia, and Holland,
while it fell off 11 per cent. in Great Britain. It
is not by illegal violence alone that personal liberty
may be encroached upon ; there are other means of
intimidation that may be as effectual, or even more
so. The Pope, by the threat of excommunication,
was able to control the most powerful sove-
reigns. A similar threat is one of the most
effective instruments in the hands of the coin-
mitt :es of the unions. When they order a
strike, he would be a bold man who would
preach the right of private judgment, and act
upon it in opposition to the commands of the secret
committee. He would not only be shunned by all
his companions, but reproached and denounced as a
snob, a nobstick, as unfair, and insulted in other
opprobious terms. By cajolery, molestation, and
threatening, the combined leaders strike a general
terror into the whole community. In most of these
contests 1 have no doubt there are many who in
their own minds nre satisfied that they are unne-
cessary and ruinous, but are as much afraid of
stating their convictions and acting upon them, as
men who live under the nightshade of the Inqui-
sition are afraid of professing their faith in the
right of private judgment lest they should be per-
secuted for heresy. What. right has any man or
society of men to prevent a boy from learning a
trade by which he may earn an honest livelihood ?
To prevent him is inhumanity to the boy, is cruelty
to his parents, and injurious to the country. And
what is the class that is injured ? These boys are
the sons of workmen, and it is workmen who doom
them to idleness: They are their own children
who are thus barbarously treated. If the son of a
carpenter should desire to learn to be a printer, or
the son of a printer desire to learn to be a carpenter,
to prevent them is to exercise cruelty of the worst
description, as it is against the young and un-
offending and helpless. And what is the reason
for this exclusion ? It is avowedly to secure a
monopoly of the trade, by preventing an increase of
workmen. While you so rigidly maintain mono-
who are so ready to de-
pn
oo lui
ne so
ea mo
monopoliesn g yourselves,
in
all other cases? Another
way in which unions encroach on the rights of both
masters and men is, their dictation of the manner
in which work is to be executed. From the nature
of these rules, they appear to be devised by the
most idle and unskilful men of the union, as they
generally favour these at the expense of the indus-
trious and skilful. For example, they insist that the
wages shall be uniform ; that the man whose work
is superior in quality and quantity shall receive no
more than the man whose work is inferior and de-
ficient. The work of some may be worth 405., and
of others 20s. If the union determine that all shall
have 30s. (that being the average), is it not a pal-
pable injustice done to the superior workman who
is thus compeiled to contribute 10s. a week to a lazy
and clumsy companion? Then they forbid piecework,
by which the man who is skilful and industrious
may gain much more than he could possibly gain
by the ordinary weekly wages. The effect of this,
and fixing an average wage for all, is to keep the
whole body of operatives on one common level,
without the hope of ever rising above the status of
a working man. I have known operative masons,
industrious, frugal, and skilful, who, by taking
piecework and making extraordinary exertions,
gained money enough to enable them to commence
as masters, and, by good management, rise to great
eminence. Had these men been doomed to the dead
level of an average wage, cramped and manacled ,
by trade union rules, they never could have reached
their eventual prosperity. The noble workmen
George Stephenson, Telford, and Tredgold, laboured
as journeymen at not more than 12s. a week ; they,
by the exercise of their free and unfettered talents,
increased the power of the country, and added im-
mensely to its wealth and happiness ; but had they
been fettered and confined by trades' union rules
and control they would have died unknown and un-
honoured, and Britain would have been deprived of
the incalculable benefits resulting from their exer-
tions. It is said to be a rile among the bricklayers
that they are never to leave the trowel out of the
right hand, that they may never be able to use both
hands in laying the bricks. In the business of
printing, although a small number of a book may
be printed, the men are not permitted to charge for
less than 250. If I want to publish a book in ten
volumes, each volume separately at intervals, I
should calculate that the sale would fall off, per-
haps, by 50 of each successive volume. In this case,
common sense would say, I should print 50 less of
each successive volume, and both the printer and
pressman would see the reasonableness of this and
be willing to charge accordingly ; but, if they were
to venture to do what seemed to themselves so rea-
sonable and just, a mandate would go forth from
the committee that they must stop or the office will
be closed. The result is that by the rules of the union,
if I print 50 I must either pay for 250, or at the close
of the publication I must be left with a great many
imperfect books. The consequence of these frequent
interferences between workmen and their employers
has been that masters have stimulated men of
mechanical genius to invent machines which do the
work of hundreds of men, and never combine. Bit,
could the operatives have had their way, the nation
would have been deprived of the incalculable bene-
fits which these inventions have conferred upon the
community. There would have been no power-
looms, no spinning-jennies, no steam printing-press,
no boot-closing machines—in short, almost every
intention which has abridged labour and increased
the comfort and wealth of the people has met with
determined opposition from the operatives. I be-
lieve that in almost all trades the unionists dictate
to both masters and men the methods to be followed
in carrying on their business, and lay down arbi-
trary rules which are often not only inapplicable to
the business in hand, but are positive hindrances.
Were all left to act like free men, the customer
would say how he wanted the material supplied,
the master would negotiate with him accordingly,
and would engage with the men to do the work on
such terms as might be agreeable to both parties,;
but, instead of that, a third party, who has no in-
terest in the transaction, steps in and in a dictato-
rial style controls them all or forbids them to pro-
ceed further. One wonders how sensible men—men
calling themselves freeborn Britons—have so long
submitted to the dictation of this secret tribunal.
We are accustomed to laud free national constitu-
tions, but freedom to act in all social relations in
such a way as will be most conducive to man's own
happiness, uncontrolled either by prince or priest,
or by any committee of his own trade, is the most
invaluable of social privileges. Britain has expe-
rienced the blessings of free trade, and I hope and
believe that our countrymen are determined to re-
sist every attempt to deprive them of this source
of national prosperity, and will guard it with the
greatest jealousy. In conclusion, allow me to say
that, although many of you may not coincide with
my views on this important subject, I have told you
what 1 believe to be the truth, and in doing so
my sole object is to promote your advantage by
saving you from fruitless expenditure, from an
oppressive yoke of superintendence and control,
and from dangerous conflicts which are pregnant
with ruin to yourselves and families, and which
are injurious not only to you as individuals, but
have a baneful influence on the material interests of
the country.
At the conclusion of the lecture,
Mr. EVERETT, a working man, in the front seat
of the area of the hall, rose and attempted to address
the meeting amidst considerable interruption. He
failed in getting a hearing, but Dr. Guthrie helped
him up to the platform, and, heedless of the noise
which prevailed, he asked Mr. Black who ought to
settle any differences which arose between employers
and employed as to the rate of wages. The work-.
men had of late been always willing to submit their
difference to arbitration, and he asked whether Mr.
Black would support a bill for the purpose of
of betweenislisri.c.ußtreAcic
said
temployershey (la
forming committees of arbitration to settle questions
a
nasewmerpelodyetl% ques-
tion in his lecture. The case was precisely the
same as that of the farmer who brought his grain
to the market and the baker who came to purchase.
They must agree between themselves. There
might be some hie.,lint' ;ling between them, but they
must come to an understanding themselves (cheers).
I Mr. IV. CHAMBERS proposed a vote of thanks to
Mr. Black for his lecture. He was sure that what-
ever might he their individual opinions on the sub-
ject of the lecture, they must all admire the manli-
ness and the kindness with which Mr. Black had
come forward and announced his principles (cheers).
He was happy to think that, notwithstanding the
differences which existed between the employers

and employed, were there more intercourse between
these two classes, and were they more frequently to
consult with each other as to their mutual interest,
there would be much less of that unfortunate colli-
sion which they now experienced.
Dr. GUTHRIE seconded the motion. -
Mr. CALVIN EVANS, a working man, rose and
said he had an amendment to propose. He mounted
the platform, and said his amendment was, that
Mr. Black was unworthy of the thanks of the
meeting, an announcement which was received
with a perfect storm of hissing and hooting, which
continued all the time that he continued speaking.
In-the midst of the noise,
Mr. D. J. THOMSON moved a vote of thanks to
the chairman, and the Lord Provost vacated the
chair.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE, Oct. 25.

GUILDHALL.—Mr. Tallent, a bookseller in
Paternoster-row, was summoned before Sir Peter
Laurie to_ show cause why he refused
_to pay the

amount of 17s. 6d. for a church-rate in the parish of
St. Faith-the-Virgin, under St. Paul's.
A clerk attended from Mr. Tallent, and stated
his employer was ill, and at the same time he
handed in a formal notice from Mr. Tallent, stat-

in; his objection to the rate, and his determination
to contest its validity.
Sir Peter Laurie—Why does Mr. Tallent object
to pay this rate ?
The Clerk—He objects to the rate on account of
the Popish practices in the church.
Sir Peter Laurie—Then the sooner they put an
end to them the better.

Mr. Hicks, the churchwarden—l do not live in
the parish, and do not, therefore, attend the parish
church. I have only attended it once, and that
was on the occasion of a charity sermon, and I did
not observe any Popish practices then. If I were

aware that such practices existed I would do all in
my power to put a stop, to them. I may, however,
state that the service is intoned, and that is the

worst feature in it. (Laughter.)
Sir Peter Laurie—lf every one would make the
same objection it would soon put an end to these
Popish practices.
Mr. Hicks—The fact is the recent change in the
form of worship observed in the church, from strong
Calvinistic to High Church, seems to have given
offence to the congregation. It was not so much
the music as thelsymbolical additions to the service
that were objected to.
Mr. Martin (the chief clerk)—l suppose the
church is not much frequented ?
Mr. Hicks—No, sir ; none of the parishioners
attend the church, as they live out of town.
Mr. Martin—What have you to say to this no-
tice which Mr. Tallent has forwarded ?

Mr. Hicks—The validity of the rate not having
been questioned in any ecclesiastical court, Mr.
Tallent is, I apprehend, too late with his objection.
Mr. Martin—There is a recent case reported of
" Reg. v. Nunneley," in which the defendant gave
a similar notice in writing, to the following effect :
"I hereby give you notice that I dispute the validity of
the church-rate now in question, owing to various irregu-
larities which were committed by the chairman at the meet-
ing for levying the said rate, and subsequently on taking
the poll, and that I am advised by counsel that such rate is
illegal ; and I further give you notice that if any distress
warrant is granted against me, I shall sue you at law for
damages."
By the 53d Geo. 111., cap. 127, sec. 7, which gives
summary jurisdiction to the justices in such cases,
it is provided that " if the validity of such rate, or
the liability of the person from whom it is demanded
to pay the same, be disputed, and the party diE-
putiug the same shall give notice thereof to the
justices, the justices shall forbear giving judgment
thereupon, and the person or persons demanding
the same may then proceed to the recovery of their
demand according to the course of law as heretofore
used and accustomed." In that case, the magistrate
made an order which was subsequently quashed by
the Court of Queen's Bench, on the ground that,
the rate being disputed, the justices had no power
to make the order.
Mr. Hicks—But this is only an objection to
evade the rate. With regard to the Popish prac-
tices it is all humbug. (Laughter.)
Mr. Martin—Which do you mean is humbug,
the' Popish practices or the objection ? (Renewed
laughter.)
Mr. Hicks (to the audience)—lt is no laughing
matter, I can assure you. (Laughter.)
Sir Peter Laurie—Well, we do not want any of
the St. George's-in-the-East practices in the city.
(Cheers from the auditory.)
Mr. Hicks—Our rector is the son of the Rev. Dr.
Milman, the' Dean of St. Paul's, and the service is
similar to the cathedral service, in which, of course,
there is a great deal of music.
Sir Peter Lauri—Does this intoning cost more or
entail any extra expense ?
Mr. Hicks—lt does tot cost the vestry a farthing,
sir, for the rector pays for all out of his own pocket.
Sir P. Laurie—l wish it were made more expen-
sive to the vestry, as they would then have it in
their power to stop it. (Laughter.)
Mr. Hicks (appealing to the audience)—lt is no
laughing matter.
Sir P. Laurie—They seem to think differently.
St. George's-in-the-East has set the example for
laughing at such practices.
Mr. Hicks—This objection to the rata is an idle
excuse to, evade payment. There is no complaint
of any etcessive outlay, and, indeed, there cannot
be, for some time back the salaries of all who were
paid out of the rate were cut down to half the ori-
ginal amounts. We now pay the organist only £lO
a year for coming twice a week, barely sufficient to
buy shoeleather ; and £5 a year for lighting the
gas, ringing the bells, and blowing the organ.
Mr. Martin—And are those sums paid out of the
church-rate ?
Mr, Hicks—Yes, sir. The pew-openers and the
sexton are also paid out of the rate.
Mr. Martin—lf you will make a rate including
only such items as the law recognises as necessary
for the decent observance of public worship in the
church, then you may come hero and enforce your
demand ; but the application of the rate to other
purposes is illegal, and any claim for a rate so ap-
plied cannot be supported.
Mr. Hicks—My year of office is nearly expired,
and I will therefore leave that for my successor.
As there seems to be some difficulty in the present
case I will let it pass.
Mr. Martin—l would recommend you at all events
to delay enforcing your claim until you have in-
serted in the rate only such items as the law sanc-
tions for the support of the church.
The summons was then dismissed for want of
jurisdiction, the churchwardens being left to their
remedy in the Ecclesiastical Court.

LAM BET H.—CHARdE OF CRIMINALLY As -
SAULTING A YOUNG WOMAN.--James Stevens, a
young man, was charged before Mr. Yardley with
a criminal assault upon Margaret Luck, aged 25, an
unmarriedfemale, who lives with her brother at 25,
Lillington-stre:t, Vauxhall-bridge-road.,
The complainant stated that at about seven
o'clock the previous night she met the prisoner,
who was a total stranger toher,in Grosvenor-park,
Walworth, when, as the night was very foggy, in
consequence of which she had lost her way, she
asked him to direct her to Vauxhall-bridge. He
said he was going part of the way, and he went
with her some distance. On the way he treated
her with a glass of ale, and at another house lie per-
suaded her to have a glass of gin-and-water. She
remained with him till :about 11 o'clock, about
which time he induced her to go into a low-priced
theatre, near the Westminster-bridge-road, and ad-
joining one of the arches of the South-IVestern
Railway. He then gave her a glass of gin, upon
taking which she became overpowered, and was
soon in a state of insensibility. She recollected no-
thing more till about two o'clock the following
morning, when she found herself in bed at home.
In answer to Mr. Yardley, complainant stated
that when she recovered herself she found her
dress, shawl, and bonnet very much torn. She re-
collected that before she was overpowered she told
the prisoner where she lived. She was told by the
persons in the house where she lived that she was
brought home in a cab. She was much injured.
Mr. Yardley asked if the cabman who took her
home bad been found.

Inspector Ceaplin, B division, replied that he was
in the court.

Fred. Hawcock, badge 11,111, cab driver, de-
posed that about a quarter past 11 o'clock the pre-
vious night, he was in Hercules-buildings, West-
minster-bridge-roud, when he was called by some
one. He saw the complainant, who was sitting on
the pavement with her back against a wall, and
she was insensible. She was ass'sted into the cab
by the prisoner and another man. The prisoner,
who said that he had only just seen the com-
plainant, told him where to take her to. Prisoner
went to Lillington-street, where complainant was
admitted by some man, who soon after came out
and directed him to send for a policeman, observing
that he thought there was something wrong. The
prisoner remarked that there was nothing wrong in
him, and that he had promiscuously met her. A
police-constable was sent for, and the prisoner was
taken to the police-station of the B division,
Rochester-row.
Wm. Luck, complainant's brother, corroborated
the evidence as to the state in which the com-
plainant was, and as to the state of her dress. He
was satisfied that there was something wrong,
when he sent for a Surgeon, and in consequence of
the representation made to him he sent for a po-
lice-constable, who took theprisoner into custody.
Br Mr. Yardley—My sister has always been a
well conducted young woman, and has behaved
herself respectably. She has been in service, and
has always had excellent charact4.s. I have made
inquiries, and hare ascertained that she was seen
drinkin,t with some man like the prisoner.
Mr. Yardley asked if it had been found where
the complainant had been after she was taken to
the theatre she had alluded to.
The Inspector observed that there had not been
time to make the inquiry.
Smith, 262 B, stated, that the prisoner was given
into his custody on a charge of having administered
something deleterious to complainant, and of also
having committed the capital offence. Ho made a
statement to witness which was corroborated in
Many particulars by the statement made by the
complainant.
Mr. Win. Whitmarsh, assistant to Mr. Pearce,
surgeon of the B division, proved having examined
the complainant, and stated that the capital offence