The Sun.
London, England, 1832-03-09 00:00:00

and (amnions of his 'Alojesty'a Government. The course
of opposition which had been taken with respect to the
present discussion, though it could not be called an unfair
course, yet it placed his Majesty's Government in a very
entharrassing situation. He bad not that night come for-
ward to call their attention to the subject of tithes in Ire-
land as though it were a matter which had never been
brought under their consideration, because it came to them
after repeated warnines—it came to them recommended
by the Speech from One Throne—it came to them in uni-
formity with the address which that House had voted in
reply to the Speech from the Throne—it came to them
after their solemnly-expressed determination to make the
subject of inquiry by a Select Committee ; and, finally, it
came to them after evidence received, and a report made,
by that Select Committee. That Committee, having con-
sidered the question referred to them, orris ed at the
conclusion, that though they were not prepared to re-
commend the immediate adoption of any final mea-
sure, yet that sufficient evidence had been laid before
them to warrant their coming to the House, laying
before it such evidence as had been taken, and calling
for such immediate steps as the exigency of the
case seemed to require. Now, before Government
adopted any particular course definitively, was it not
Peones that they should come before Parliament at
the earliest possible moment, anti not come forward
pledged to any particul it measure ? The most striking
port of the objection raised by those who supported the
motion W:l3 this—that they found fault with Government
fur being too early in consulting Parliament : it was really
the first time, in all his Parliamentary experience, that be
had known Hon. Members find fault with his Majesty's
Government for taking Parliament into their councils.—
(Hear, hear.) That was the real state of the case. Had
they not called upon the House to go into an inquiry?—
And he would appeal to the report of the Committee to
show whether or not they bad grounds for at least taking
Borne steps? Was the present a time in which they could
wait and trifle? Were they to be met in a time like that
with the announcement that the executive authority had
not power to enforce the law? He was prepared to admit
that, as a permanent system, such a law ought not to be
enforced ; but so long as it was the law, there could be no
doubt that it ought to be obeyed. But they were told by
certain Irish Members that they ought to propose nothing,
because they could carry no plan into execution in
Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) Was it becoming—was it
safe to be influenced by such a threat?—(Renewed
cheering.) That report, then on the table of the House,
Was one which, while it held forth a prospect of relief,
at the same time suggested measures by which Government
could maintain the authority of the law ; but certain
Irish Members met them at once with the reply, that they
could not in that country enforce the execution of the law.
That was a fatal announcement, not only for Ireland, but
for the British Empire. Those Hon. Members in effect
said to his Majesty's Government, you must not stir an
inch in this matter, because you cannot command the exe-
cution of the law. That was a recommendation which,
if it had anv force at all, was equally stringent with re-
' effect to England or to Scotland. He entreated Hon.
Members to consider what that announcement led to.
They were told they could not enforce the laws, for that
the people would not obey them. Let the House, then,
look to the conclusion. Whenever an ignorant and op-
pressed people, conceiving themselves insulted and feeling
themselves injured, being at the same time inflamed by the
agitating spirit of the times, ground by real oppression and
excited by fancied wrongs—when stitch a people, so stimu-
lated, had signified that they would not obey the law,
were Members of that House to come forward and tel the
Government they should do nothing, but sit still and sub-
mit to a state of things so utterly unheard of? Were they
to he told that the people had resolved to set aside the law,
and that therefore the Government must do nothing?
Was that the counsel which the Right Hon. Baronet op-
posite thought proper to give them ? Was that the con-
clusion at which the Right Hon. Baronet would have the
House of Commons arrive? It was idle to suppose that
the House did not possess all the information which was
necessary for taking, at least, a preliminary step. There
was not a Member of Parliament who had not had the re-
port in his bands—who had not the evidence delivered be-
fore the Committee. He confessed he could not easily ac-
count for the objections to going into a Committee, for,
in his judgment, that mode of proceeding would give the
fullest scope for discussion. It really did appear to him
that some Hon. Members endeavoured to suggest that he
had some design of tricking the House. The whole ex-
tent of his Parliamentary experience did not enable him
to say that he could remember a single instance in which
it had been held that going into Committee pledged the
House to the proceedings that might he adopted there.
Sir H. PARNELL denied that he had made any such
assertion.
Mr. STANLEY would then ask the Right Honourable
Baronet did he think that agreeing to the motions for going
into a Committee pledged the House to any decision what-
/ soever
Sir H. PARNELL said he thought it pledged Members
to the principle of the measure.
Mr, STANLEY—Then the Hon. Baronet and those
who resisted the present motion did so on the ground that
it Pledged them to the principle of taking into considera-
tion the question of tithes in Ireland ; but the House had
already acted upon that principle, and not only that, but
the Right Hon. Baronet bad himself declared his full con-
currence
with the leading feature of the proposed resolu-
6-Jabs-namely, relief to the parochiel clergy. The mea-
sure of coercion had been much misrepresented, and all
• that he asked of the House was, to suspend their judg-
ment upon that matter, and upon the questions connected
with this report, until the resolutions which it was the in-
tention of the Government to propose had been laid before
them. It had been objected to them that this report was
imperfect. He admitted it—it was what the Government
said—it was necessarily imperfect; and what they asked
Was, that the House should not draw conclusions from
this imperfect report, but should go into Committee,
Where the subject might be more fully and completely
discussed.—(Hear, hear.) Did those who opposed the
Committee mean to say that no change was necessary? If
they did, their opinions were at variance with that of all
others, not only of Catholies,not only of Presbyterians, but of
ministers of the Church Establishment, who bad been
examined, and without whose testimony the examination
would indeed have been partial and incomplete. What
was the meaning of this call for delay? Were they to
wait three, four, five, or six months on a subject like the
'present ; or did those who recommended delay think it
would he more possible for the Government to vindicate
the majesty of the law at the end of that time than at
present? There had been a charge made against the Go-
vernment that they had encouraged agitation in Ireland.
It was a false, a foul, a calumnious accusation—hut it bad
been made ;land yet, when the Government wished to pro.duce a measure that would have the effect of quieting •
tation, they were called on to delay for some time longer;agl
and thus, while the charge itself increased the amount of
agitation, the effort of the Government to prevent it was
opposed and attempted to be frustrated. He had made
these observations because be had been unjustly accused of
taking an unfair advantage of political circumstances in
order to prevail over those who did not take the same view
of the matter with himself—a conduct of whiclahe never had
been, and tr usted he never should be, guilty in the whole
course of his political life, any more than he should be
guilty of it in any transaction of private life.—(Cheers.)
Mr. LEADER explained.
Sir R. INGLIS, amidst loud calls of " Question," said,
that he should vote for the motion without considering him-
self Pledged to anything beyond entering upon an inquiry.
I Mr. HUNT complained that the Members were called
on to go into Committee on a matter on which they had but
insufficient information. He assented that the tithes were
Much greater in England than in Ireland ; and it was true,
is they had been told, that if the tithes in Ireland were
touched it would not be long before those in England were
trade the subject of inquiry.
Mr. JEPHSON wished to ask the Right Hon. Secre-
kry whether be should go into the Committee pro forma
night?
. Mr. STANLEY said he did not propose going so far.
lle desired
Only that the House should agree to go into
Committee,
Aber night. The Committee itself could be taken on ono-
' The cans of
genets!, when the
Question" here became very loud and
Foe goin ! House divided—
g into committee
Against it 3l
Majority for Ministers —T-43
the Hoes The nth
eer Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
adjourned at a Quarter to Two.

ll 0
Mr. USE ------""41.'-----
SE OF LORDS, 111.4. Rem S.
• It co
private Rills, whkir and others brought up several
Lord DOVER were severally read a first time.
praying for f Presented a petition from Bethnal-green,
urther regulations in the working hours o:
, children in factories.
. Lord FINGALL
Meath, in favour of presented a petition from Kilbayne,
4gairt:t tithes. Reform, and one from the same place
•
Lord CLONCURRY
tioes.---Referred to the 'Tithe
three petitions against
The Bishop of LONDiplitsl'e Committee.
deanery
of Boroughbridge presented a petition from the
might be augmented by a t'axPraYing that small benetices
Lord KING presented th Put on larger ones.
Ireland, against tithes. One xeq petitions from places in
of the petitiona stated that in

t .6 parish whence it came, there was not a Protestant, but
the parson and his wife.
The NOBLE LOAD presented twc petitions from places
in Surrey to the same effect.
The Earl of ELDON said that from what had
transpired in another place on a recent occasion, he
should give notice, that, on Monday next, be would bring
forward a motion relative to his own conduct while he had
the honour to sit on the 'iVoolsack in that House.
Gross imputations had been cast on him, and he
was determined, with the help of God, they shou,d
not go unanswered.—(Hear, bear.) He thought it better
merely to give notice of his intention, and not go into the
imputations at present, as he considered it necessary that
some Noble Lords, whom he did not see in their places should
be present at the discussion. He only wished that his
conduct should be fairly laid before the public, and would
abide by its decision.
Earl RODEN presented petitions from liallytrane and
Scull, in Irel Ind, and Clare, in Suffolk, against the new
system of education in Ireland. The Noble Earl asked
whether the Noble Viscount opposite had any objection to
postpone the second reading of the Irish Juries Bill.
Viscount MELBOURNE assented.

Lord TEYNHAM gave notice that on Monday. he
would bring in his Bill for the regulation of the office of
overseers of the poor, which was withdrawn last session.
Lord SUFFIELD presented a petition from the parish
of Christchurch, Spita:fields, against the employment of
children under nine years of age in factorise for too many
hours. FL! entirely concurred with the petitioners.
The Marquis of CLEVELAND, seeing the Noble
Lord at the head of the Board ot Trade in his place,
wished to ask him whether the returns relative to the
shipping trade would soon be laid on the table.
Lord AUCKLAND said the returns relating to the port
of London might be presented in 2 hours, but from the
outposts it required time to get them.
The Earl of WICKLOW, before going into the regular
business of the evening, wisl,ol to ask the Lord Chancellor
of Ireland whether Captain Graham was still in the Ma-
gistracy, i.r if he had resigned ?
Lord PLUNKET said Captain Graham's name was
not included in the new list, and he had not resigned
himself.