The Sun.
London, England, 1832-07-21 00:00:00

CHOLERA.

Colonel SIBTHORPE moved for further daily returns
relative to tht cholera.
Captain GORDON seconded the motion.
Mr. P. THOMSON opposed the motion on the ground
that it would, if carried, defeat its own intentions.
Lord ALTHORP brought in the Russian Loan Bill,
which was read a first time, ordered to be printed, and
read a second time en Tuesday next.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned.

BARBAROUS MURDER IN SHADWELLe--.
On Thursday night between 11 and 12 o'clock, as JOHN
DOUGLAS, police constable, K 279, was passing the end
of the Match Walk, a low alley in Shadwell, he heard
the voice ofa woman, which he recognized to be that of a
girl named CATHERINE HARRISON, commonly known in
the neighbourhood as North country Kit, and a most
desperate character. DOUGLAS proceeded up the walk
and knocked at the door of the house from whence the
noise proceeded ; a sailor looked out of one of the windows,
hut said he did not know what was the matter ; be, how-
ever, admitted the policeman, who proceeded up stairs to
another room, where he found the girl just named, and a
coloured man weltering in his blood. He had a severe
wound in the socket or the eye and another in the chest.
There was a table knife on the table, having a very sharp
point, and covered with blood. A doctor was sent for,
but the man died before he arrived. The prisoner said
she had not stabbed him, but only threw a plate at him ;
afterwards, she said she had done it with another knife.
She said she was savage with the man because he gave
his money to another girl.
DETERMINED SUICIDE ON WATERLOO-
aktnaz.—Yesterday morning, about 3 o'clock, as a gentle-
man, whose name we could not ascertain, but who resides
at No. 48, Dorset-street, Salisbury-square, was returning
along Catherine•street, Strand, he met with a female,
Very elegantly dressed, and with whom he walked into
Wellington-street, where they stood talking for some time,
when a second female came up and forced her conversation
upon the gentleman. The first feeling offended at the in-
trusion, left suddenly, and walked towards the bridge, and
having paid the toll, passed through to the first alcove,
when she, in the sight of two policemen, got over the co-
ping nil precipitated herself into the river, the water
of which was running up very strongly at the
time. The two policemen, as soon as they possibly
could, ran for assistance, and several boats were manned
and put off to the spot where she had fallen in, but the
unfortunate creature had sunk to rise no more; and
although the river has been dragged ever since, the body
has not yet been found. Her name was KATHERINE
HoWMAN, well known at the various saloons and fa-
shionable places in the metropolis, but she is better
known by the appellation of WAX Woax, on account of
the beauty of her countenance.
MELANCHOLY FATE OF A ROMANTIC
ASPIRANT FOR HISTRIONIC FAME.—An epistle recently
received in London, from a young aspirant, who was
seeking " fortune and fame" in the histrionic art, on the
borders of Wales, communicates that—" There are seven
of us, together with two women,—it is a paltry village,
and in six or eight weeks we have taken 11. !---not one
farthing has found its way into my pocket since I came.—
I have spent all I brought down, and ant now living on po-
tatoes. I have played a sailor in the Rivals. —(4-
Where did he find him ?)—doubled in the Pilot—am
learning to walk the stage—very slowly. I fag hard to
get no money—twice have we dismissed the house. Such
things as these have decidedly my especial wonder. I play
the walking gentleman, but having no instructor, I go on
hut slowly. Our manager is the picture of a London
lamplighter—dirty and greasy, and people will not be la•
miliar with such. I have got over that most awful sen-
ation—stage frigh►. I played Lorenzo, in the Merchant
f Venice, last night, and got ten pence for the perform-
nce ! Shylock, I suspect, got a shilling ; but that wit
of last him long, as he is addicted to loose company, and
ram drinking!

commodity.
Mr. HEYWOOD presented a petition from the congre-
gation of Unitarians assembled at Moseley street Chapel,
Manchester, in favour of tie Government plan of educitti,;ri
in Ireland. The Hon. Member laid on the table a pa,.er

containing ;in account of tho number of prisoners tried at
Lancaster Assizes in each year since 1826, distinguishing
the number in each hundred. —lt was ordered to be printed.
Lord KILLEEN had apetition to present which affected
in a great degree one of the deare.t privileges of the people ;
he meant the right of petitioning this House. It was from
the town of Nodder in the county of Meath. A requisi-
tion had been signed, calling a meeting to be held on the
15th July, at the town of Nodder, for the purpose
of petitioning this House. He did not know for. certain,
but his impression was, that the requisition was signed
before the letter of Sir W. Gossett was published. He
did not believe that the magistrates acted with any
feelings of hostility towards the people, but that they
merely acted in obedience to orders. However, they
went there with a military and police force, and read first
the letter of Sir W. Gossett, anti next the Riot Act, after

which they dispersed the meeting. The Noble Lord, after
adverting to the statements in the petition, which corro-
borated the facts he bad stated, proceeded to contend that
the conduct of the petitioners was fully justified, inasmuch
as the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland had promised the
people of that country a total abolition of tithes; instead of
which he bad brought in a Bill to perpetuate them, and
render their payment compulsory. The moment the people
struck at the rents, those who now advocated their cause
would be against thein.—(Hear.)
Sir EDWARD SUGDEN thought the Noble Lord had
treated the Right Hon. the Secretary for Ireland with
gi eat unfairness. He had never promised any thing ap-
proaching to a total extinction of tithes—be had spoken
of a commutation.—(Hear, hear.) He agreed with the
Noble Lord, that the moment the people struck at
rents the landlord would be against them. Why would
they be so? The answer was obvious; such a step would
draw from the pockets of the landlords instead of the
clergy. The meetings which had taken place in Ireland
on this subject were highly illegal, and had placed that
country in a state of complete rebellion.—(Hear,
bear, hear.) In his opinion, the extinction of tithes
would be the means of putting into the pockets of the
landlords a great portion of that which now went into the
pockets of the clergy, and it was therefore no wonder that
those who would be thus benefited, advocated and sanc-
tioned such illegal proceedings.—(Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL congratulated the Right Hon. Se-
cretary on having so able a lawyer for his advocate,
though he felt persuaded the correctness of his inten-
tions did not need it. With respect to Ireland being in a
state of rebel iors, he must be allowed to say that not a
single fetter had been shaken, a single assault committed, or
any improper act done by those who met for the purpose, if
possible, of procuring the extinction of tithes. They talk
about a rebellion in Ireland; but if there was a rebellion,
it was one with a single musket, or a pike, or a bayonet.
The people met occasionally in considerable numbers—
but then they were peaceable, they dispersed when
told to do so by the magistrate. But he would ask why
it was that the people of Ireland were not to be allowed
to meet for the purpose of petitioning that House, as well
as the people of England? How was it that there was no
attempt to crush the meeting of 150,00(1 Englishmen at Bir-
mingham? It was because they were Englishmen. Where
was the Treasury h ick, where was the paltry scribe, who
dared to write a circular to the Magistrates to disperse
that meeting? The lion Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) might
sneer and laugh, but would he do eo when an impeach-
ment was hanging over bun in a reformed Parliament,
when the House would be cleared of 250 of the nominees
of Lords?—(Hear, hear.) They might cheer, but he
was determined, if he was in the next Parliament,
that that Hon. Gentleman should be impeached for
his conduct towards Ireland. Was it to be borne that the
priest should be dragged from his altar, the merchant from
his country house, the tradesman from his shop, and the
country gentleman from his home, all because they met for
the purpose of agreeing to petition that House? In wh it
other country would it be allowed, that all this should be
done, and even insult added to it, by the persons
being dragged through the streets by thief-takers,
when not one but would have attended by a verbal
message ? Certainly not in England. This was the
second celebrated letter of the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman's upon this subject, and he Loped some Hon.
Member would move for it, but if not, he would himself
do it in another Parliament. There was not a
word in this letter of instructions, that the magis-
trates were to act upon information on oath. What
then had become of the boasted liberty of a British
subject, when the magistrates were ordered to act upon
any fancy they might themselves form ? What he com-
plained of was, that the meeting in the county Meath Was
dispersed, when they had met for the purpose of petition-
ing that House, a Deputy Lieutenant in the chair, a Ma-
gistrate moving a resolution, and the people all quiet,—he
complained that the meeting was dispersed, without the
least pretence for saying that it was likely to cause any
outrage. The petition, though not yet presented,
would ere long he on the table of the House. He was
sure the subject would not end here—it would be heard of
again and again, and he would say that the result would
be that the people of Ireland would be as free to meet for
such a purpose as this one did, as the glorious people of
England did, and in what numbers they should think
proper. The people of Ireland had a noble example before
them in the conduct of the Noble Lord opposite (Milton) ;
he refused to pay taxes, they refused to pay tithes ; they
bad as good a right to do so, and they would continue to
do it, but they would not commit one single breach of
the peace. No, they would keep within the law, to dis-
appoint their enemies.
Mr. STANLEY thought it scarcely necessary that he
should follow the Hon. and Learned Gentleman through
all the topics he had touched upon. As for the
threat of the Honourable Member he treated it
with the same contempt as be had done on
former occasions, for it had often been repeated. There
was no one more anxious to give and secure to the people
all their rights, and more especially the right of petition-
ing that House, but it was not to be allowed that they
should meet in such large assemblages as led to actual in-
timidation. Such meeting might be harmless in the
country at one time, and most mischievous at
another, and no man could say that in the pre-
sent state of Ireland they could possibly be allowed
to go on without being met detrimental to the peace and
safety of the country. He.was told by the Hon. Gentle-
man that there was no outrage committed, but could that
Hon. Gentleman say with truth that great outrages on
property did not spring from these meetings? He knew
that immense damage had been committed, and it was
easy to trace the cause. He agreed with the Hon. Gent.
that the case would not rest here, for prosecutions had
already been commenced, and the case, the conduct of
both the Government and the parties, must come before
the legal and ordinary tribunals of the country ; this ren-
dered it unnecessary for him to say much at present upon
the subject. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had
said that the meeting was merely for the purpose of
addressing that House, but in that case where
was the necessity of flags and banners of a very
seditious tendency ? He had had a letter that morning
from the Governor of the county, in which he was in-
formed, that though the meeting was not attended by all
the district that intended to be present, yet there were
not less than 150,000 people assembled—and the Magis-
trates had information on oath, that flags were making,
intended to be exhibited, two of which he had seen.—
One of them was made of green and white—round the
border was written, " The people are the stronger," and in
other parts,
" He who would be free, must strike the
first." " Ireland as she ought to be." Beneath this last
was the figure of a f tarp with the Crown detached ; when
the informant asked the meaning of this lash he was told,
it was typical of the repeal of the Union. This proved
that the character of the meeting was not what it was
represented. The Magistrates acted on this information,
and on other information which they had, but all oa oath,
and dispersed the meeting. In the present state of Ireland,
the meeting
they had sufficient power to put it down by the law,
was dangerous, the Government considered
and would do so on their own responsibility ; if the law
was not strong enough, he would have no hesitation in

would have been illegal.
Mr. SHIEL said he should support the petition.—
Were the Government justified, he would ask, without ail
Act of Parliament, in dispersing meetings which had as-
sembled for the constitutional purpose of petitioning th it
House? The Orange meetings were permitted to go en,
headed even by martial music and banners, in varioti-
parts of the country, attended in some instances by up
wards of 300,000, among whom were some Magi,-
trates, even although they were fraught with
every circumstance of alarm and intimidation, and
although they had been denounced beforehand, while a
meeting which took place in the county of Meath, not it,r
intimidation, but for the purpose of petitioning Parlia-
ment, was dispersed at the point of the bayonet.—( Hear. )
If the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) was right to
the opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown, why w
it that he had introduced the Party. procession Bill ?
The question was not whether Ireland was in a perilou.
condition, it was not whether these meetings were to 1.).
dispersed, but whether the law of the land was to li,
violated, and the constitution infringed thereby ? Th •
people of England had a direct and immediate interest i
this, because if a precedent were adopted in a province, it
would speedily be establi.hed and extended as conveni-
ence might require. It had been said by the Right
Hon. Gentleman (the Member for Tsmworth) on a
former occasion, that he would support any new clause
for the purpose of strengthening the executive in Irelano,
and undoubtedly if Ireland were in desperate circumstance
she might be legislated for accordingly. But were the
Government to act on extraordinary powers, before they
received them ? .

Mr. CRAMPTON said the Government had no inten-
tion to interfere with the right of petitioning. But the
Hon. Member for Lowth had assumed that the meeting o
the subject of this petition was legal, and constitutionally
assembled for a constitutional purpose. It was, howeve, ,
assembled nominally for one purpose, and really for ano•
cher. It was therefore the duty of Magistrates, having ju
tisdiction, to suppress it. He believed this petition bad
been got up for the purpose of dissolving those bonds by
which society in Ireland was held together.—(Hear, hear. )
The petition prayed an investigation into the circum-
stances of the dispersion of the meeting. Three person
had been apprehended, and on their trials, at tl-
approaching assizes, the matter would undergo legal
investigation. ItOad assembled, not to petition but to
agitate, to enter into a combination against the payment
of tithes, and to pronounce a sentence of civil excommu
nication against those who refused to become parties to
. . . .

their nefarious scheme. The law of the land, be was of
opinion, was sufficient for the Government, but it was ne-
cessary to be enforced. By whom, however, was it to be
administered, if not by the Magistrates, who were
responsible for their conduct?—(Hear, bear.) The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite might, if I,e
pleased, move in the Court of King's Bench for an
information against the Magistrates.—(Hear, from Alr.
O'C.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman said " Hea' ;"
he knew that he entertained an opinion that the L iii
Courts in Ireland did not duly administer jos-

tice—(Hear, from Mr. O'Connell)—.and that thy)
were not t,) be trusted. It was a gross libel, and al-

though their characters were traduced, and their actions
vilified, never were there abler, more honest, and more
humane men, than the Judges of Ireland.
Sir ROBERT PEEL rose to correct a misstatement
made by the Honourable Member for Lowth. He hail
not stated, on the occasion alluded to, that any new
powers ought to be granted to Government—for in fact,
he had great confidence in the energy of the ordinary law,
if properly enforced ; and until every other measure was
exhausted, no extraordinary powers should be resorted to.
Colonel PERCEVAL bore testimony to the imp irtial
character of the Judges and Juries of Ireland.—(Hear.)
I.lr recollected the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry,
staring that the Protestants of Ireland, generally joined ie
this outcry against tithe.—(No, from Mr. O'Connell ) Ile
certainly had so understood the Honourable ant
Learned Gentleman. He (Colonel Perceval) denied
that assertion. The Protestants as a body, (although there
might he some few exceptions owing to intimidation, of
expectations being held out to them) loathed and detested
this atrocious combination against the payment of tithe.
He might agree with some persons that what was called a
Reform, might be introduced in the disposition
of church property—(Hear)—but he would never agree
to separate the property from the church. The bishop►
might cause a fairer division of the property, and appto
priate it more equally; but the clergy received their
tithe by the same right as the landlords receive,'
their rents. He looked on this attack on the tithes only
as preliminary to an attack on the rents, and he knew that
many of those who wished to destroy the tithes
looked forward with confidence to a reduction el
rents. It was, therefore, extremely satisfactory to
him to see the Government come forward with their tithe
and other measures, ,with a view of suppressing that com-
bination. A great part of Ireland was now in a state even
worse than rebellion. He stated as a fact, that on the 6th
of this month, at a meeting upon tithes at Ballihale.
the Roman Catholic priests brought up their flocks with
banners bearing inscriptions disrespectful towards the
the clergy. Roman Catholic priests in numbers appeared
on the platform, and went the length of stating, that
they would form themselves into a union t..
overawe the assistant barristers in the execu•
film of their duty. locked, the state of tl.e
country was such that an open rebellion would be a bless
ing in comparison with it—(Hear)—for then Government
would be obliged to use prompt and decisive measures for it.
suppression. He denied that the Protestants of Ireland a-
& body at all participated in the proceedings against tithes.
He was aware that in the conspiracy to suppress the tithes
a number of farmers were compelled to come forward and
attend the meeting, who detested and loathed the conspiracy
Mr. RUTHVEN asked if the people had a right to
meet and petition for Reform, why they were not allowe
to meet peaceably to petition against tithes. He believed
the orders to disperse the meeting to have been illegal and
unconstitutional. It was owing to the goer' sense of the
people in dispersing quietly that no mischief arose, and no
blood was spilt. He hoped Government would not act
that part which was so much desired by those who wished
to see Ireland in open rebellion.—The petition was then
brought up.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that these discussions would
never arise in the House if justice was impartially admi-
nistered in Ireland. He complained that the Juries were
packed by the Government, and that the Jury Bill lent
up to the House of Lords, having for its object to assimi-
late the appointment of Juries to the practice in England.
had been cushioned in that place.
Mr. CRAMPTON said, that the statement of the
Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry was entirely in-
correct. The common juries, were selected by the
Sheriffs; and he had never beard any impeachment of
their conduct.
Mr. O'CONNELL had spoken not of common juries,
but of special juries, which were nominated by an
irresponsible officer, entirely under the control of tin'
Crown.
Mr. CRAMPTON denied that the Crown had the
least influence in the nomination of special juries. The
panel was returned by the Sheriffs; and then the gentle-
tlernan whom the Hon. anti Learned Member called an it -
responsible officer struck the jury. This officer was in
the Common Pleas the Prothonotary, and in the King's
Bench the Master. Both gentlemen held their situa-
tions for life, and were beyond the control of the
Crown.
Mr. O'CONNELL still maintained that the Master
in the King's Bench was under the influence of the
Crown.
Lord ALTHORP denied that there was any intention
on the part of Government to cushion the Juries' Bill in
the House of Lords. The Hon. and Learned Member
ought to bear in mind that the Government had given that
Bill their support in the House of Commons.—(Hear.)
The petition was then read and ordered to be printed.
The Anatomy Bill was brought from the Lords, agreed
to, with certain amendments.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS called the attention of the Noble
Lord to a promise which be had made to afford some re•
lief to the %Vest Indian planters, which should be equal to
a great reduction of the sugar duties, and wished to know
whether it was his intention to submit to the House any
measure for that purpose.
Lerd ALTHORP said that the promise which he snade

enabled to give to the Court of Inquiry his testimony ho-
nestly and fearlessly.
Sir J. HOBHOUSE said that the brother of the pri-
vate Somerville had applied to him, erroneously supposing
that he had the power to grant Soinetville his discharge.
He had referred the application to the Commander•in-
Chief ; who stawd, that if Somerville conducted himself to
the satisfaction of the conimanding officer, he would allow
his discharge, upon payment of compensation, in a short
time. Hee inquired what period was to elapse previous to
the disch IN of S unerville ; and he found that it was nut
more than could fairly be called a short time. He could

assure the House that no sort of intimidation would be
practised on Somerville during the investigation of Lis
case; and that the inquiry would be conducted with the
strictest impartiality and fairness.—(H:ar.)
Mr. BARING asked the Noble Lord (Palmerston)
whether it was his intention to propose any measure to
the House during the prevent session, for the purpose of
guaranteeing the payment of the Greek loan ?
Lord PALSIEBSTON was prepaying to lay the treaty,
and the protocols which had passed between the parties to
the treaty, before the House ; and when they were pre.,

sented, he should communicate to R,rliament what course

it was the intention of Government to pursue with respect
to this matter. The guarantee contained in that treaty

would not bring upon this country, under scarcely any
possible circumstances, the liability to pay Is. The whole
revenues of Greece must be applied to pay the interest of
the loan; and it was only upon the failure of these that

this country could become liable
Mr. BARING thought that it would require a great
many of the Noble Lord's protocols to make the proposition
palatable to the publ c.—( Hear, and a laugh.)

RUSSIAN LOAN.
Upon the motion of L 111ALTHORP the Hou'e then re-

solved into a Committee on the Dutch Loan.

Lord ALTHORP proposed a resolution to empower his
Mjesty to continue the payments, hitherto made by the
Crown, for the purpose of liquidating part of the interest

of the Russian Dutch loan.

Mr. MILLS contended that no reason whatever etisteci
for the payment of so large a turn of money to Russia ast
was proposed by Ministers. He knew, that in conse:
quence of that declaration, he should be expo.ed to the
animadversions of a portion of the press, whose object
seemed to be to hold up to public obloquy every Member
of that House who, having been in the habit of voting
with Ministers, presumed to exercise an independent judg,
meur upon any question.—(heat.) He move to
an amendment, " tha: the Chairman du leave the chair."
Lord SANDON said, that it was impossible for him to
refuse his sanction to the vote proposed by the Noble
Lord (Althorp.) The consideration for which we originally
agreed to pay this sum of money to Russia still existed—
namely, the past services of Russia. It appeared to him
that the opposition to the measure was urged with the
view of exciting the passions of the constituent body

- -
throughout the country.—(Bear.)
Mr. HOPE contended, that the House ought to be put
in possession of the documents which had induced the At-
torney-General to change his opinion on the (potion, he •
fore they wets called upon to vote the money'
Mr. P. STUART said Russia Lad abstained at our re-

quest from interfering in the atitlrs of Belgium. Could
we then take advantage of her adhesion to our policy?
The honour and the interests of this country would be
best consulted by acting liberally towdrds Russia.
Mr. BEST contended that it was impolitic to agree to
the dismemberment of the kingdom of the Netherlands,
as that kingdom bad been constituted fur the purpose of
forming an effectual bsrrier against French aggression.
Mr. R. TREVOR could see nothing to warrant him n
voting away the public money.
Sir J. BRYDGES supported the amendment.

Mr. PIGOTT considered the proposition as neither
more or less than the recommendation of a bribe to Rus-
sia, to gain the assent of that Power to the separation of
B-Igium and Holland.
Sir R. VYVYAN was ready to support the amend.
tnent of the Hon. Member for Rochester. In his opinion,
if the payment were made, it would be tnere!y for the
maintenance of a truce, and not for the preservation of
the general peace of Europe. It had beep_alleged that
the production of the necessary papers would give offemoo
to foreign Powers; but he conceived that the debates on
the subject were as likely to have that tendency, and, for
his own part, he saw no just grounds for waving his pri-
vilege of calling for those documents. lie looked upon
this payment to Russia as a bribe to that power not to in-
terfere iu the question between Holland and Belgium, so
far, at least, as to endeavour to reunite them ender the
authority of the King of Holland, and as he could not
assent to a payment which he could look upon only as a
consideration to Russia for non-interference, he must op-
pose the orieinal motion before the Committee.
Lord ALTIIORP observed, that the Hon. Baronet who
had just sat down, had referred to matters which he said
were not before the House, as the grounds on which Mi-
nisters rested. He (Lord Althorp) denied that statement.
Ministers rested their case on the papers before tie House,
and on the general information which Hon. Members pos •
sessed on the subject. The lion. Member who moved the
amendment said that he would withdraw it if there were
any secret article which bound this country to the pay-
ment of the money. Now he (Lord Althorp) was not
prepared to say that there existed any article of the kind.
If lion. Members were not convinced by the documents
before them, and the general knowledge of the subject', he
'oust say that Ministers bad net any information behind
which could convince thorn.—(Hear, hear.) The ground
which he had put the qu stion before, and which he
now repeated, was, that as the severance of Belgium from
Holland was by the concurrence of England, and certainly
not against its wish, it would be most unfair and unjust
for England to turn round and say, that the severance had
tbsolved her from the payment. Let it be recollected that
we could not prevent the separation of the two countries
without involving Europe in a general war. Looking
at all the circumstances of the case, he did not see how
any man of honour could say that England was absolved
from the obligation to make good her engagement. He
bad been accused of being very brief in his remarks on
this subject. He must s ty that he was not in the habit
of spinning out observations ~n any subject the men's of
which lay in so very small a compass as this ; and cer-
tainly on this, which was the foul th discus-ion of ic, he
did not think he could add anything to what hail been
already said in support of the view which he took of it.
Mr. A. BARING did not think that any charge of a
wish to harass the Government in the question now be-
fore the House could be fairly made. Same stress had
been laid on documents which were not before the House,
but to which Hon. Members hail referred as making out a
strong case for the payment of the money. 11, did not
deny that there might be a strong cast male out for that
payment, if all the facts were prralured to which some
Hon. Members seemed to refer ; but he denied
that any such facts were before the House, and
in their absence he thought the money ought not
to be paid. The Honourable and Learned Gentlemen
(the Attorney and Solmitor-General) had referred to other
documents in support of the opinion they gave. Now, if
the Learned Gentlemen would give their word of honour
that they had founded their opinion upon documents other
than those before the House, and that those documents
were sufficient, as of course they must have been in their
opinion, to justify the payment, he would be satisfied not
to press the matter further. But if this were net done,
nor the documents themselves produced, he must say that
there was not a case before the House strong enough to
justify the payment. It was, he maintained, absurd to
contend that Belgium was now sn independent power, or
that she was in a situation which could be contemplated
as forming a barrier to France, Why, when a question
arose of approaching war with Holland, France was
through the Belgian territory, and on the frontier of
Holland, almost before the other Powers were aware of it.
Under all these circumstance:, then, he felt himself
justified in now, for the last time, recording his opinion by
his vote on this question. Let it be remembered that bee
aides this sum, the payment of which Ministers were ur•
ging on the House, there was another sum of 800,0001-i
for which we were about to become a guarantee for the
new Sovereign of Greece. Because we had reluctant.ly,
heretofore, consented to become a guarantee, when alneem-
ed
dividual closely connected with this country was selected
as the Sovereign of that country, we arc now! shout to en-
ter into a similar guarantee when a
of his teens, was to he placed at the head of mot yet out
Government,
manageable of any
and that, too, of a country the mt,ostt
island. 'Under these
in Europe, not excepting our start
ought to consider
circumstances, he thought the
well, and have a strong ease made otat to it, before it coo-

actited to take a large sum such as ;hat involved in the
question before the House from the pockets of the people.
Mr, STANLEY said that the Hon. Member who had last
addressed the House, though he had affected to throw out
time amount of the pectin ary consideration, yet almost the
beginning and middle, and certainly the end of his speech,
referred to the amount which was to be taken from the
proleets of the people. When the Hon. M. mber talked of
scattering the money of the people, let it be remembered
that the engagements under which the sum now before the
House was sought, and even that for Greece, which was
not before the House, and the negotiations foe which were
not vet concluded, were entered into by those by whom
the Hon. Member (Mr. Baring) was then surrounded—
(He r, hear)—and at the time of their being so made,
were as solemnly objected to by the Noble Earl now at
the head of his Majesty's Government, but who now felt
himself in that situation in which he was bound, by con-
siderationa of national honour, to follow up anti complete
engagem-nts into which his predecessors had lettered.—
(Clitets from the Ministerial side.) The Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Baring) had denied that he had taken a share in this
discussion from any party motives. He (Mr. Stanley)
did not suspect the Hon. Member of any such motives ;
but if he could for a moment suspect him of entertaining
any party motives on this occasion, he might refer to his
speech in January last. On that occasion the questicn
was not a pecuniary one, but though then considered as a
constitutional question, the Hon. Gentleman, as if gifted
with the spirit of prophecy of the future views v,hich were
to be taken of the subject, did not make the distinction be-
tween the pecuniary and the constitutional question. The
Hon Member on that occasion told the House, that if they
once admitted the pecuniary claim, the further doubt or
discussion of it would be to degrade or debase the House ?
—No, bet a conclusion which involved both, anti some-
thing more,—that it would us ike out a case after which
it would become unsafe for any of the Powers of Europe
to negoci tte with ti—(Cheers)—and the Hon. Gentleman
therefore cautioned the Hole, to consider well before they
came to a decision on that point. The HOUS,, however,
did decide on it ; and, after two other deciaions to time
same etr,ct, the Hon. Gentleman now advised the House
to turn round on Russia, anti to take that course which,
according to his own statement, would render it unsafe
foe any of the Powers of Europe to neenciate with us.—
1 Hear, then the Hon. Member said that a
doubt was felt at that tiale, anti the case was refined to
the law-officers, who first gave an opinion against die
pa, merit. It was so; but on looking over the documents
connected with the treaty of 1815, they changed their
opinion, and stated that. which all who had well consi
tiered ti.e question must admit, as far as a nation
could be bound by the spirit of any treaty, we were
bound to make good our enantopment to Ros-ia. It_ was
perfectly trite, and no wan could doubt, that by the hare
letter of the treaty of 1815, the a' p ration of Belgium
from Hadar:it would telease his country from its obligation
to pay that which it ha gu•ranteed ; but then the object
at t°e t• racy, and the ne.,:oci st,on, connected with it, would
show, beyond any dow,t, that in lion-oar and equity, :ms be-
tw. en natio', and nation, our obligation to p ty still continued
after the severance of the two countries; reference biting
also I ad t, the eh rutosthnces untie, which tt at severance
took place. The Mon Meihber (11r. Baring) had a-ked
for 'tie other di cusuenrs on which the d•cision of the law
officers was made. His Noble Fin nil (Lord Althorp) had
&read% said th ht there was no secret treaty, that there
were no doeuments which could eni.ble the House to form
any other opitoon than 'might he come to from th.,se
a'ready before the [louse. They (Mini.:e s) r-steel ,apron
theta doctiosews— upon that general knowlie!ge of she
subject which was in time possession of every Member and
which w,s now waiter of Isi.tory. The lion. Memb-r
had a.keil whether Ilia Hon. wit! Leant d Fii- ni, the At
torn -y-General, woold pledge his 0 onour, that the docu •
menta submitted to him were sufficient to make a case to
josiify the payment ? The answer he (Mi. Stanley) made
watt, that there were no other documents but those before
the House. But he would ask a question in his turn. He
would ask any Hen. Gentleum to oppasite, whether, upon
his word of honour, he would, upon the papers before the
Houte, deny that the money onzlit to he paid?—(Hear,
hear.) If Hon. M onbers would not go that length, then be
would ask, why was the qu-scion put as a pecuniary one,
or what was the object of talking aloPst so moot, being
taken at this time froin the pockets of the people? I
was sai I that this was a mixed argument—that snore ar-
guments were drawn from the treaty of 1815, and some
from the late treaty. It was so. To clear up any doubt on
the wording of the firmer treaty, the latter was entered into,
and on that Ministers felt it necessary to come to the
House. Good God ! could any man who looked at the
great struggle of 1815,—that struggle in which Eriglan
and her whole resources were involved,—that struggle in
which all Europe ultimately joined,—that glorious struggle
which terminated in the overthrow of a power that
threatened the destruction of every vestige of freedom in
the civilized world;—would any man tell hi:it-that it was
carried on for the purpose of tnnexing a few provinces to
Holland ?—( Hear, lie r.) Would any Oman tell him that
its object was not to quench the ambition of France,
whose energies were dir coed by such a conqueror as the
world never saw before,—a conqueror who threatened the
saFety of every state throughout the civilized globe?—
(Hear, hear.) Would any man tell hitm that the wject of
that vital struggl- was merely the attaching of the N -therr
lands to Holland ?—(Hear, heat.) What were the term-
of the treaty? That the payment should cease when Bel-
giutn was separated from Holland. But what species of se-
verance was meant ? Evidently a severance contrary to the
will of Russia and of England Looking to the preamble
of the treaty, and looking to the declaration of Lord Cris •
tlereagb in Parliament, who said, that even in the case of
those countries being severed, still the payment should be
made to Russia, it was clear that such was the mean-
ing of the contracting parties. Lord Liverpool al-n
expressed the same opinion, in a long anti I ihourcd
statement. He Old not !oak, be said, to a mere narrow
view of the question ; but, cot:side:log what Russia had
suffered,—consieering the exhaustion of her finances
considering the destruction of Moscow—he would appeal,
not to the strict justice of Engla,d, but to her high-
minded liberality, to act with a beneficent feeling towards
Russia.—(Hear, hear.) It was not on account of colonies
which this country held by the rigne of conquest that
such a stipulation was entered into.—(Hear, hear.) No;
it was in consequence of the strenuous exertions made by
Russia at a period of extremity anti danger, when this
country was threatened with war and invasion. England
was then rescued (as Lord Liverpool said) by these exer-
tions, from a knowledge, except an historical knowledge,
of war, and London, perhaps, from pillage. It was on
these grounds that Lord Liverpool supported a treaty
which the present Government V. ere so much blamed fur
upholding. Yes, they were denounced as a money-scatter-
ing Government because they adhered to the spirit of that
treaty.—(Hear, hear.) But gentlemen said, .‘ This
question does not depend on the statements of those who
made the treaty; no, tee must be guided by documents,
and by documents alone." Why it was quite evident
from those documents, that the great object of the treaty
was to afford a suitable return to Russia for the heavy ex-
pense incurred by that power in recovering those provinces
from the enemy. Holland hail a distinct interest in their re
cuvery—.England had a distinct interest in their recovery.
And who was the enemy there designated? There could be
no enemy hut France.—(Hear, hear.) If this were not an,
wby expend 20,0001. on the erection of frontier fortresses
to protect those provinces against the incursion 9f France?
—(Hear, hear.) What nag 'the language 'of Earl Grey
on that occasion ? That language he was proud to goote,
because it fully sustained the policy whist, the Govern-
ment was now acting on. That. Nim'mle Earl 'Moe
fortresses are of no use. France, when she pleases, Can
take possesaion of them, for they cannot he pr perly gar-
risoned by Holland or by Belgium. Why, then (he con-
tinued) ~o you riot band over Belgium tosome realty
penoerit Rover, teat ran secure that country from *foreign
invasion ?" And what had now been done? Surely it
was better to secure the guarantee of five great Pow rs
against the invasion of Belgium, which this treaty ilia
secure, than, for that put pus,-, to force a Monarch on
an unwilling people, and to xaenti moluty fur the erec-
tion o fort:, saes which could not be maintained. e
Hoo. Gentleman, to tv,ose uotents he was molt
replying, was a eteat prophet.— (A ',ugh ) A year and
a halt ago he prophesied, mat it would he next to imposaa
Ve, it the preset Ministers proceeded in the course
wipe) they had adopted, that the peace of Europe could
be oreserved for one y-ar. Nearly two years had elap-eel,
and the peace of Europe remained unbroken —(Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman, in the like spirit of pro
pbecy, bad declared that the French fleet, when once
moored in the Tagus, would not remove from Portugal,
and that the Fetich army, when once marched into Bei-
giumn, would remain there. But, for the spirit of
pro; hecy, the French fl.et did leave the Team:, and tom-
French army did retire from Belgium !—( Hear, t e ,r. )
With what did the Hon. Gentleman now find lau,t? 1-1,
c inured the Government because they inlet feted to settle
the differences bete een two contending Powers, w/o:Jo
quarrel, ii n tt amittably settled, was likely to engender war
all over the Continent —( Hear, hear.) He contended that
the barrier for resses of 1815 could nut prevent the occu-
pation of Belgium, looking to the national antipathies
which existed on the part of Belgium towards the do-
minion of Holland. What, then, was the intention o

his Majesty's pret,ent Ministers ? Why, it was to effee
tbat—the independence of Belgium—which their p:e.
dtcessors had attempted to do. Let not, then, lie

flit non the present Gevernment the odium of severi,iz
Holland from Belgium. They would have gladly cemented
the union between the two countries, but They fund that
the separation was already determined on ; and all that re-
m tined for them to do was, to look to the terms on which
th.t separation was to be carried into effect. Russia
having fulfilled her engagements to the letter, were they
now to say to that power, " We will not grant you this
1,500,000 L, instrumental as you have been in preserving
the pe ice of Europ- ? " Were they to he censured, if
they endeavoured to keep up the good faith of the country,
which, God forbid ! should ever in their hands he tar-
nished or broken ?---( Hear, hear.) " Why," it was
alsed, " should you enter into new engagements? " The
aesNer was obvious. Those who advised this course were
of opinion that if doubt existed, Russia should, through the
au limit}, of Parliament, receive that security which she
Iy (Its! rved.—(Hear, hear.) But then it was said,
" Would you subsidize an enemy ? " In this case, we
lee! Only to look to one point—was that enemy an
enemy to Belgium ? This country would not be freed
fiotn her engagement, unless Russia showed herself hostile
to our policy with respect to Belgium. In the first in-
stence, the policy of this country was union between Hui-
leiol and Belgium. Sultsegnently circumstances rendered
icpiration necessary. In neither case had Russia dis-
seeted trom our policy, and therefore she had a right to
coil for the fulfilment of our eugacement. It was, how-
ever, odd, that if the situation of Holland was changed,
Lc:gland was no longer bound by the contract. He de-
d this; and then came the question—were the views of
If Aland the same as those of England ? They manifestly
a ere not. Holland was a ixious.for an extension of her
t. Ft itorv, hut that was nut the wish or desire of England.
II r object was to secure the independence of Belgium
ag Cnst the ambition of France, anti thereby to prevent a
neral war throughout Europe.—(Hear, hear.) The
H. Gentleman had said that he did not wish to embar-
rass Ministera—th it he had no desire of appealing through
that House to the hust:ngs ; yet the whole tenour of his
speech had evidently a tendency to both the one and the
other.

Sir G. MURRAY declared his intention of voting for
the amendment. In the documents laid before that House,
there was no reas whatever to be found which ought to
induce them to continue those payments to Russia.—
(I lear, hear.) He might be wrong, but he knew that in
re thing that declaration, he was not violating the bottom-
of a g-nrleman, neither was he offering his sentiments for
e:ectioneering purposes, for he knew not the opinion of
any one of his constituents on this subject.—(Hear,
hear.) Gentl-men opposite had aroused those who thought
ith him of inconsistency, but the inconsistency was to
be found on the part of Government. They were told in
J intriry last by the Attorney General, that he and his
fi ;ends had founded their op•nions upon certain documems
tt hich were net f atlicemine, but to-night they were in-
farmed by the Noble Lord (Althorp) that his opinion was
founded upon no such documents. It had been said that this
was the fourth debate upon precisely the same subject. 'Teis,
however, was not a cerrect statement. Teeee debates
grew out of diff rent potiit,, although connected with
that subject. As to the assertion that the present state of
teiegs grew out of the policy of the last Government, lie
sh old tee prepared to show, if that question came on for
iseussion, that the present ministers were fir more answer-
alee tear it than their predecessers. He ridiculed the idea
et the hazier now affected to be set up aeaitist the ambi-
tion of Fs sore. Here was a mill state, retninifine him
-omnethimmg of a rajelishie in India ; the army it pneseeeed,
,ind which "as to he a check to the ambition of France,
was officerid by Frenchmen, just as the armies f Indian
adults were officered by Enelishmsn.—(Flear, hear.)
17 was expressly said in this treaty, that cur obligations
were to be a• an end when the Low Countries were se-
vered from Holland. That was the letter of the treaty.
iiet gentlemen opposite told them that they were to Ink
to the spirit, and net to the letter, of the obligation.
iiiiweeer, would ask, where was the plea that the letter
end spirit of the treaty did not agree? He would main-
tain, 'hat the spirit was to be found in these documents
which Ministers refused to give ibein. The Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite had argued that the spirit was to be
discovered in speeches to which he gave an in'erpretation
never imagined by the Ministers who delivered them. The
treaty expressly stipulated that these payments should
he made only so long as the Netherlands belonged
t,m the !liaise of Orange.—(Hear, hear ) Nothing
could be clearer than that declaration. Ii further stated,
that in proportion as any part of the Netherlands should he
withdrawn from the King of Holland, the payments
should be reduced in the same ratio. He therefore argued,
teat as the whole of the Netherlands had been withdrawn
(rem Helfand, so should the whole of these payments be
withdrawn from Russia. It had been said that this was a
party question, brought forward in order to displace Mini-
sters from their present situations; but who, he would
ask, would like to succeed them ? Who, for instance,
would wish to succeed the Right Hon. Gentleman op-
pesite in his administration of the affairs of Ireland ?
(Vocifeious cheers from the Opposition ) Who would like
to inliow the foooreps of that Right Hon. Gentleman in
enifeivourine to settle the important and momentous
question of tithes? The expression of the Right Hon.
G,ntleman, " extinction of tithes," hail been literally ful-
filled in that unfortunate country; and surely, looking at
the stare of our relations with the continent—looking at
the sate of Ireland, and looking at the state of our
finances, no one could be possibly considered ambitious of
assuming the reins of Government in the room of the pre-
sent Minister,..—(Cheers from the Opposition.)
Mr. STANLEY thought it scarcely necessary for
him to reply to that statement of the Right Hon. Baronet
with respect to the declaration that tithes were to be ex-
tinguished. That statement he had over and over again
refuted—(No)—re'uted to the satisfaction of the 'Tense
(No, and hear.) He should not have trispass.d again on
their attention but for the allusions of the Right Hon.
Baronet to that part of the empire with which he was
more particu'arly connected. The Right Hon. Baronet
had spoken of the state of Ireland. He would tell that
Right Hon. Baronet—and he defied him to gainsay it—
that Ireland was in an infinitely better state than when he
came into office.—(Cheers, and laughter from the Oppo-
sition.) Aye, he repeated that it was in every respect in
a more peaceable and prosperous state than when the pre-
sent Ministry took on themselves the Governtnent.—(Ve-
hement and continued cheering front the Opposition.)
He said it, and the Right Hon. Gentleman who had been
at the head of affairs in that country (Sir H. Hardinge)
was present to hear it—that there was less danger to be
apprehended from the people of Ireland at the present
moment than when the Government of that country was
handed over to him. At that time the Bank of Ireland
was fortified—(No, no)—the towns were garrisoned,
the fortresses were provisioned, and even the troops
stationed on the coast had their instructions with re-
spect to the places on which they were to fail back in
the event of commotion. —(Cheers.) He did not say that
.he Right Hon. Baronet (Herdinge) bad not done his
duty as a good guerrillr and a skilful soldier for the pre-
servation of the public peace ; but he maintained that the
state of Ireland was such, that the Government must have
been glad'of the opportunity to give it up to their oppo•
newts.—(Cheers from the Ministerialists—abswered by
cheers from the Opposition.) He would not enter into
the other qugetions touched on by the• Right Hon. Barmier,
for tley.did not •helong to his department; but this he
might say, that the Navy never had been in. a more ef-
fective state than at present, although the expenses hail
tweet reduced upwards of a million in eighteen. months;
and as to the Colonies. he apprehended, from the papers
left in the Colonial Office, that treasures were in content-
templetioo by the termer Government not very oifferent
from those attempted by their. successors.—(Cheers.)
The Government need not be taunted by the Right Hun.
Baronet with the present state of public affairs, for he ap-
prehended that if the Right Hon. Baronet's parer were to
succ&d.thein now, they would succeed to infinitely less
difficulty and embarrassment in every department than the
Right H n. Birenet and his rile agues had left to them.
whether they looked to the policy pursued at home of
abroad—to Ireland or the Colonies—to trade or to finance.
Cheers.)
Sir GEORGE MURRAY defied the Right Hon.
Gentleman to inept out any document left in the Colonial-
effice during the time he was at the head of the depart-
merit which either sanctioned anything like the dis-
erim.nating scale of duties, or proposed to impose on the
Colonists ausurd end impracticable regulations on the eub•
jest of the quattity of razors, and awes, and hats, to be
seven to the n games.—(Cheers.) •
Sir HENRY HARDINGE (being loudly cared on)
'aid, he could take on himself to say, that the state o
Ireland new could bear no comparison with the state if
1830.—(Cheers from tee Opposition.) He had lid.
tae S reretaryship of Ireland only three months, and .
experience therefore was short; but when the Rigel
Hoe. Gentleman referred to the military preparations, be
could tell him that, after the event-s which had take,
place in Paris and in Brussels, he felt it his duty to take
every pi ecaution for the preservation of the tranquillity' of
the country.—(Hear, hear.) He defied the Right Hon.
Gentleman, however, to point out a single instance, fey
the three or the six months preceding, of such meeting.
being allowed to take place as those they had lately hearu
of.—(Cheers.) The policy he pursued in that country
Dad been adopted and followed up by the Noble Lord then
at the head of the• Government of Ireland, and if the
state of Ireland was now so much worse, it was because
the Government had encouraged turbulent Ineetio4s,

and agitation both in England and Ireland its order
to assist them in carrying the Reform Question.—
(Hear, hear.) He stated it without hesitation, that
more blood had been shed (brin.. the last eighteen months
of misgovernment in England and Ireland, than during
the fifteen years of the government of the other party.
When they found 50 or 60.000 men allowed to assemble,
until very lately, for illegal purposes, it was impossible
not to see that the state of Ireland was much worse than
it had ever been before.—(Cheers.) It was not his flute
that the House had been troubled with these explanations.
—(Hear.) With respect to the qu,stion of the loan, he
could only say, that as the Government had not declared
tine papers they refused to give contained any thing, the
knowledge of which would lie prejudicial to the public
service, he should certainly, on the ground of neeess,ry
information being withheld, vote for the mo•ion of the
11-mher for Rochester.—(Cheers. )
The SOLICITOR GENERAL denied ]raving spoken
of the document in what he said formerly on this questien ;
and, if his Hon. Colleague 111,1 done so, he could only say
that all who heard him admitted his speech to he a
triumphant answer to the charge brought against the
Government.—(Hear, hear.) The question really to be
considered was, if the House would agree to the treaty
made by Government or no? The course of Govern-
ment, in the late arrangement, had been foumled upon the
spirit of the treaty of ISIS. At that time Russia was
entitled to compensation, and, decidedly, that empire
should not be deprived of the payments then conceded, in
consequence of the separation which had taken place be-
tween Holland and Belgium, inasmuch as that separation
was made with the full consent of England, and acceded
to by Russia at the eat nest representation of England.
Mr. BARING, in explanation, complained that no an-
swer had been given by the G-ntlemen opposite to his
question. All he wanted to know was, what was the in-
formation on which the Law Officers had given their
opinions ?

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL stated the opinion he
had given was founded on the treaty itself, and no other
information.

Sir R. INGLIS expressed himself opposed to the policy
pursued by Government un this question. He did not re-
g ,rd it as a question of money. It was, in his mind, whe-
ther they were or were not haunt] by the treaty of 1815,
to continue this payment to Russia. He entirely disap-
proved of the line of c•on,luct which bad lie-n pursued
towards the King of Halland ; his ancestors deserved well
of all lovers of religious and poli;ical freedom, and he was
himself a Monarch of exemplary character. Condemning.
however, as he did, the c,nduct pursued by the Adminis-
tration, he would not vote against it on the present
occasion.

Air HUNT had looked upon this matter from the first
as a job.—(Lauglcer and cheers.) H.., for one, was nut
thspusf d as others to sacrifice the public money
for a fanciful maintenance of the national taiat. He was
ma, however, inciined to embarrass Gov,•rnment, and
o ou'd nut, accordingly, vote againq it, but he would not
v,te for Government. If he did, he felt he would be re-
ducing himself to the rank of a party man—(elieer,)—
which he never would do.—(Hear, and laughter.) He
r,•011!(] rot vote against his ju'grnent.
An HON. 111 EMBER—A la Hume.—(Cheers and
lamhter.)

Mr. HUNT—No, I will never vote against my con-
si,ienee—(CLeers and litighter)—:is the Hon. Member for
Middlesex has done.—(Cheers.) I do not mean to v-te
for Government. I will not vote against them. I shall
leave the House without voting at all.
Mr. HUAIE, in explanation, said he had acted con-
sistently in having toll his re 'son for voting against his
Opinion. He wished other Members would he as con-
sistent.
Mr. HUNT never would vote against his conscience
and say so.—(A I :ugh. )
S r It. PEEL said that he bad very little to say on
this subject. —(Hear.) He would not enter into any to-
pics of a private and domestic nature, but would din et his
observations to a point of public viry. What was th-
case with rt..!7ard to this question of Holland and Russia?
It was true th tt we still retained the colonies we had taken
from Holland ; and that England was, therefore, in some
sort, under an obligation to compensate Holland, be would
not positively deny. If, therefore, he were now called
on to give a decided vote whether the money should be
paid to Russia or Holland, he should certainly feel some
difliculty in making up his mind on the subject. He
would indeed admit, that there might be a doubtful claim
of honour on this country, in consequence of the Conven-
tion of 1S 15 ; so that, in fact, the question was one of
mixed considerations ; but, if it was, why did the Govern-
ment press them to a decisive vote, before all those mixed
etinsiderations were clearly settled and explained ? '
He denied that the interference of the late Government
on this question was a proof that they anticipated a sepa-
ration roust take place between Holland and Belgium.
Throughout their whole conduct they showed they anti-
cipated no such thing. Why had not the Government
yet called on Parliament to ratify the treaty relating to
Greece? For this reason—that they intended first to
put tin the table of the House all the documents connected
with that treaty. Why had they not taken the same
course with regard to this convention ? By the confession
of the Ministers themselves, the negnciations wore not
finally completed ; and he asserted, that by Parliat»en-
tory precedent, they cool I not call for this vote till those
proceedings were completed. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man than went into a statement of the points in which
the negnciations were not completed. Russia had ratified
the treaty with reserves. The Ministry had laid the treaty
on the table of the House, hut did not explain what those
reserves were, ELT whether they had since. been re-
moved. Affairs were now arrived at that crisis when

the lapse of only a fortnight would decide whether Europe
was to be involved in war or to rem iin in possession
of the blessings of peat •. If this country were about
to interfere hostilely, the House ought to have information
laid before it to satisfy it that it ought to interfere. Let
the House remember the siege of Haarlem, and 1-t it re-
flect how much might be done by a small lint a united and
a gallant people. He called upon Ministers tither to af-
ford further information, or to postpone the present vote
until the arrangements were completed. The responsibi-
lity would rest with the House ; but he (Sir Robert Peel)
protested against the unfairness and injustice of the pro-
ceeding.
Lord PALMERSTON adverted first to what had been
said regarding Greece, and contended that the present Mi-
nisters had only acted upon an engagement entered into
by their predecessors. He then justified tte appointment
of Prince Otbo of Bavaria, as Sovereign of Greece, and
insisted that the papers already laid upon the table amply
justified the course taken by this Government with refe-
rence to the Greek loan. In making the recent arrange.
meats between Holland and Belgium, Ministers had pur-
sued British objects ; and if Holland had lost Belgium by
her own misgovernment, she could have no right to de-
mand hack part of the price she had paid for it. He as-
sured the Right Hon. Baronet that there were no reserves
as regarded the separation of Belgium. He (Lord Pal-
merston) did not mean to say that either the last or the
present Government were the authors of the separation be
tween Belgium and Holland : they found that separation
existing, and it was clear that hostile measures could never
produce a lasting reconciliation. In fact, the separation
was best calculated to carry; into effect the great'principles
of. European peace and security. He (Lord P.) would
venture to state his prophecy in opposition to thst of the
Hon. Member for Thetford, viz. that the present esta-
blishment and constitution of Belgium would he found in
the long tun an arrangement more effectual for its object
than the settlement attempted in 1815. His Lordship
then proceeded to argue, that the Articles for the naviga-
ion of certain waters of Holland were not less advan-
tageous to Holland than to Belgium. If it should not be
his lot to continue to conduct the negoei ttions on this sub
ject, he should always look hack with great satisficion :it
the part he had t ken in a matter thst was undoubtedly
one of great diffieul y. It was well known that when hislmminentcy d
prevent Ministersiwniasrte. Foray, ar and a half at leastrs enteied upon office there was
i
that event had been averted ; and he felt persuaded that
It the various po.nts of their conduct, with ref-rence to
ur toreign relations, were known to the country at large.
they would experience general approbation. With re-
spect to the proposed ainendmenr, he hoped the Com-
,iiittee would not be indueed to believe that it was merely
a motion fur delay. The plain and obvious proposition on
.aid h they were called upon to pronounce, was, whether
he future paymtaits in question were to be sanctioned or
negatived by Parliament?

The Committee 'then divided—...
For the Amendment ........................... 112
Against it

............................... ....... 191
Majority for Ministers ............ 79
The anuaunceinent was receive,' with loud cheers.
The .riginal Reso!ution was then agreed to, and the
louse having resumed, the Report Was ordered to be re-
,eived this thy.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed o';
and at half. past two o'clock the flotoe adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 20.
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.
Several Priv gte Bills were brought up from the Com-
mons, and read a first time.
LONDON POLICE BILL.
The City of London Police Regulation Bill Was read a
s(cond time, and committed for Monday next.
On the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND the Re-

wetly against the Hundred Bill was rea I a third tune and
psied.

REFORM OF PARLIAMENT (IRELAND) BILL.
The Doke of CUMBERLAND asked whether the
Noble Earl would not postpone the second reading of the
Irish Reform Bill beyond Monday next, urging the ab-
,ence of Ir'sh Peers, and their expectation that the Bill
would not so coon have come into their Lordships' house.
Earl GREY begged to decline, as he had last night,
eomplying with the Noble Duke's request. The printed
copies of the Bill would be on the table this evening, or
to-morrow morning at farthest.

The Earl of LIMERICK urged the postponement of
t;ie second readim on the same grounds as the Noble Duke.
L"ril GOSFORD said he was convinced that the delay
o s I,rtnight or three weeks would not bring an increase
f Irish Peers to t-:wr.

The Duke of IVELLDTGTON thought the sect):
relffing oug,,t to be postponed.

Earl GREY could not help thinking that any postpone-
ment of the second reading would only lead to unnecessary
delay, which it Wes most important at the present time
should not take place. If the second leading pissed on
M,nday next, he hoped it would not be considered as
hurrying the Bill trio much, if the Committee were fixed
for Thursday next. As they must all be familiar with the
Bill, he did nut think any Noble Lord would have to com-
plain of baste.
Lord WYNFORD said, that althouoi the Bill had been
upon their table, as it had not been printed, they had had
no opportunity of considering it.
Earl GREY—The Commons have printed it.

Lord WYNFORD said, he had enough to do to read
their Lordships' papers. lle should under all the circum-
stances think himself justified in moving that the second
reading 91 the Irish Reform Bill he taken on Thursday next.
The questl,n having been put, Earl GREY rm,ved as
an amendment that the Bill he read a second time on
Monday.

Ili, House divided, when there appeared—
For the Amendment
Against it 1:
Majority for Ministers
BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS BILL.

Lord WY NFORD moved the order of the day for the
second reading of this Bill. The Learned Lund would
not have persevered in bringing forward the present mea-
sure, but that Lord John Russel, in the House of Coot -
moos, was understood to withdraw his promised Bid on
the same subject till next session. Without some such
measure, the Reform Bill would not only be incomplete,
but actually productive of much corruption.
The LORD CHANCELLOR thought it %you'd be
better to leave this very important subject to the other
House of Parliament. He was aware that his Noble and
Le !rued Friend also wished a Bill to originate in the
Commons, and that he hail brought forward the present
nr!asure under the impression that the Ministerial Bill
which was introduced into that House hail been dropped.
lie (the Lord Chancellor) hail mule inquiry, and learned
that the Bill was not dropped. It hal been read a second
time, and its commitment on Tues lay was only prevented
by the acc,dent of the House being counted out. It was
still the intention of the authors of the Bill to press it ; he
trusted it would pass, and receive the concurrence of the
Legslature previously to the termination of the Session.
He thought with the Noble Lad that there existed, if
possible, greater reasons than ever to make the laws against
bribery effective.

Lord WYNFORD would not press the Bill after what
had fdllen from the Noble and Learned Lord on the wool-
•aek ; hut trusted there ,ould he n objection to allowing
it to be r..ad a secon.l timeprofornaa.
The Bill was read a second times and the House ad.
j aimed till Monday.

The Members of the Conservative Club, No.
2, Cirlton Terr ice, have (according to a correspondent)
received notice from the Commissioners of Woods and
Forests to quit forthwith. It appears, from the leases
granted to those residing on Carlton Terrace, that no
house is to be converted into a clubhouse. The clique
are extreme y dissatisfied with the determination of the
Commissioners; especially as they have been unable to
?rovide tl-Rinselves with a suitable residence in which to
hold their secret meetings. It has b,en proposed by some
of the party to dissolve the club entirely ; and we under-
stand meetings to that effect have been held—the result has,
however, not transpired.

Sir DANIEL KEYTE SANDFORD, Professor
of Greek in Glesgow University, has offered himself a can-
didate for the representation of Glasgow.
REPRESENTATION OF YORK AND YORK-
SHIRE.-Turyi•m is nearly extinct in Yorkshire. For
the City, Mr. DUNDAS, one of the present Members, and
die Hon. E. PETRE, the unsuccessful candidate at the
etectim in 1830, have declared their determination to
offer themselves again. The Tories, it is said, cannot induce
any one to come forward in their interests—neither is
there a Tory candidate for any of the ridings nor any of
the new boroughs, with the exception of Whitby and Leeds.
COUNTY ELECTION. The Tories are
making great efforts: they are retaining every attorney
that will accept their fees. Meanwhile, what are the R~
fortner's doing ? Mr. SANDFORD is not at work ; he has

no agents—no canvassers._lt should be remembered that
the eleirors who give him their votes, have a right to re-
quire that those votes should be protected, and not utterly
wasted, from a deficiency of activity and spirit on the part
of him to whom they are given.—Slierborne Chronicle.
PEMNIEKIN.—Does the reader know what

Pemmekin is? Should he not he so far informed, wt will

tell him, that Peattnekin is a name given to the previously
innominate ma-s formed for the nourishment of the sailors

who went under Captain PARRY'S command to the North
Pole—a concentration of the nutritious quallies of meat,
so powerful, that 50 pounds of beef make about a square
inch of much of it scraped as will lie on a shilling,
will feed a fellow six feet high and four feet broad for 22
hours; its great merit is of course its portability ; and its
utility must be evident to the most inveterately prejudiced

. -
landsman, when he comes to consider that Jack can carry
a quarter of a bullock in his tobacco-box, and slow away
half a devn hams and a fillet of veal in the fob of his
trows,rs. —Liverpool Courier.

A CAT 0' ONE TAlL.—Carding the tithe
proctors (who certainly were the genuine tyrants of Ire-
hind) was occasionally resorted to by the white boys, and
was performed in the following •nanner. The tithe
proctor was generally waked out of his first sleep by his
door being smashed in ; and the boys in white shirts de-
sired him " never to fear," as they only intended to card
him this bout for taking a quarter instead of a tenth
from every poor man in the parish. They then turned
him on his face upon the bed; and taking a lively ram
cat out of a bag which they brought with them, they set
the cat between the proctor's shoulders. The beast,
being nearly as much terrified as the proctor, wouhi en
deavour to get off; but being held fast by the tail, he in-
trenched every claw deep in the proctor's back, in order
to keep up a firm resistance to the white boys. The
more the tail was pulled back, the more the ram cat tried
to go forward; at length, when he had, as be conceived,
made his possession quite secure, main force convinced
him to the contrary, and that if he. kept his hold he
must lose his tail. So, he was dragged backward to the
proctor's loins, grappling at every pull, and bringing
away, here and there, strips of the proctor's skin, to prove
the pertinacity of his defence. When the ram cat hail got
dawn to the loins, be was once more placed at the
shoulders, and again carded the proctor (toties quoties)
according to his sentence.—Sir Jonah Barrtngton's
Sketches.

PLAGUE IN FORMER TIMES.--The Rev.
Dr. RUDGE, in a Late sermon on the cholera tnoibui.,
gives the following historical narrative of the ravages o'
the pestilence in former times In 1349, it raged in
England to such a frightful extent, as that scarcely 1.
tenth part of the population of the country, of all classes,
were lett alive. The churches and churchyards were in.
sufficient to contain the dead ; and in the metropolis it
wag found necessary to consecrate a large spot in %,,st
inithfield as a burying ground, upon which house's are

now erected, arid wriiclteXtended even over a part of the
ate on which the New Post-office has been built. During
its prevalence, 50,000 persons were here inter red. In tl;e
,eign of the Einiteror VESI.AsIAN 10,000 daily fel.
victims to it in Rime alone; and this awful sacrifice of
oilman lives contrnuerl for several days. In the year
1345, the pestilence was so general throughout t.,e
Christian world, that it destroyed more than one-half on
those whom the infection had seized. At Constantinople,
lit the reign of JUsTiNtAti, 50,000 died daily. Tn.
African plague was no less destructive in its march.
Commencing at Carthage, it swept off in its course, in
Numidia alone, 80,000; on the tea-coast of Africa,
400,000, together with 30,000 soldiers at Utica. In th
,itrie of PETRARCII, such was its destructiveness in It tly
hat, cut of every t,olisand, not ten persons survived. It,
London, at the great pl-igu; about a century arid a halt
since the present period, it has been estimated that mon
than 100,000 persons pe.ished in the city and its en-
virons. The disconsolate metropolis was nearly deserted
ay its inhabitants; trade entirely ceased; the Courts of
law were closed ; and no pictorial representation can
4ive the faintest idea of the actual state and real misery
to which the devoted city was then doomed."—See Dr
Fudge's Sermon.

FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE,

WAR-OFFICE, JULY 20.
-2d Regiment of Dragoon Guards—Captain C. Paget, from
half-pay of the Regiment, to be Captain, vice Curtis, deceased,
July 20.

3d Regiment of Foot—Assistant-Surgeon A. Wood, M. I).
from the 7-3 th Foot, to be Assistant-Surgeon, vice Francis
Browne, who retires upon half-pay 26th Foot, July 20.
4th Foot—Captain P. Dolisle, from half-pay ilith Foot, to be
Ciptain, vice Henry P. Hill, appointed Paymaster Bth Foot,
July ‘2.0.

Sth Foot—Captain A. P. Hill, from the 4th Foot, to be Pay-
master, vice Cox, deceased, July 20.
9th Foot—S. Brownrigg, Gent, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice
Ogilvie, who retires, July 2.0.
16th Font—Ensign C. J. Carter to be Lieutenant, by purchase,
vice O'Neill, appointed to the 49111 Foot. G. H. Wallace, Gent.
to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Carter, July 20.
9th Foot—Lieut. J. O'Neill, from the 16th Foot, to be Lieu.
tenant, vice Faders, who retires, July 20.
42d Foot—Ensign J. M Fergusson to be Lieutenant, by pur
chase, vice Douglas,. who retires. Serjeant-maior Wheat-
ley to he Adjutant, with the rank of Ensign, vice Macfarlane,
who resigns the Adjutantcy only, July 20.
68th Foot—Staff.Assistant.Surgeon J. Fitzgerald, M.D. to be
Assistant-Surgeon, vice Williams, promoted, July 30.
78th Foot—Statf-Assistant-Surgeon W. Robertson to be As-
sistant-Surgeon, vice Wood, appointed to the 3d Font, July 20.
81st Foot—Capt. J. Ward, front half-pay unattached, to be
Captain, vice D. Duval, who exchanges, receiving the diffe-
rence, July 20.

Ist 'West. India Regiment—W. M. Mids., Gent. to be Ensign
tiy purchase, vice Robinson, who retires, July 20.
GARRISONS.—Lieut.-Gen. Sir John Byng, G.C.B. to be Go.
vernor of Londonderry and Culmore, vice General Hart, de.
ceased, July 17.. _

110S1'1TAL STAFF.—Assistant-Surgeon J. Forrest, M D.
from half-pay Bth West India Regiment, vice Fogarty, promoted
in the 21d Foot, July 9; Assistant-Surgeon F. Hopkins M.D.
from half-pay 2d Life Guards; Assistant-Surgeon M. 1,. huigan,
from half-pay 57th Foot, July 11 ; Assistant-Surgeon C. Foote,
from half-pay 26th Foot, vice Robertson, appointed to the 78th
Foot, July 20.

Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Sussex.
C. S. Dickins, jun. Esq to be Deputy Lieutenant, July IS.
Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County al Salop.
Shropshire Militia.
E. L. Gatacre, E. F. Acton, W. Davenport, and J. E. Graham,
Esqs. to be Captains; F. Marston, J. M. K. Chadwick, T. Hard-
wick, and T. Matthews, Gents. to be Lieutenants ; C. Fraser,
T. Boyce, and J. M. Fraser, Gents. to be Ensigns, July 12.
North Salopian Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry.
Cornet J. Shirley to be Adjutant, with the rank of Captain ; R.
Masefield, Gent. to be Lieutenant, vice Warren, promoted, July 6.

ST. JAMES'S-PALACE, JULY 13.
His Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland has been
pleased to appoint Mr. George Cooper, of Brentford, to be sur.
geon to his Royal Highness.

ST. JA M ES's-PA LACE, JULY 17.
The King was this day pleased to confer the honour of Knight-
hood upon Charles Marshall, Esq. ClnefJusticc of the Supreme
Court in the island of Ceylon.

FOREIGN OFFICE, JULY IR
The King has been graciously pleased to approve of M. Durant
St. Andre, as Consul-General in London for his Majesty the
King ()Utile French.
The King has also been graciously pleased to approve of Mr.
William Maury as Vice-Consul at Liverpool for his Majesty the
King of the French.

Tice King has also been graciously pleased to appiore of Mr.
John Mitchell, as Consul at Leith for his Majesty the King of
the Belgians.

The king has alai) been graciously pleased to approve of Mr.
Johnston, as Consul at Liverpool for his Majesty the King of the
Belgians.
The King has also been graciously pleased to approve of Mr.
Giovanni Monticelli, as Consul-General at Malta for his Ma.
jesty the King of the Two Sici!ics.

FOREIGN-0/71-'IOE, JULY 18.
The King has been graciously pleased to appoint Gilbert Earl
of Mint°, to be his Majesty's Envoy Extraordinary and Minister
Plenipotentiary to the King of Prussia.

WHITEHALL, JUNE 18.
The Lord Chancellor has appointed John Matthews, of Oxford,
Gent., to be a Master Extraordinary in the High Court of Chan•
cery.

BANKRUPTCY ENLARGED.

THOMAS MORRIS, Westbromwich, Staffordshire,iron roller
maker, from July 27 to Aug. 17, at eleven, at Whistou's Cross
Inn, S slop.