The Sun.
London, England, 1832-04-09 00:00:00

REFORM BILL.

Earl GREY rose an l spoks as follows :—My Lords,
several petitions have been presented to-night, iu favour
of, and adverse to, the Reform Bill. It is now my duty to
propose to your Lordships the second reading of the Bill,
which the other House have sent up, for a Reform in the
representation of the people. To a Bill of this important
nature, a Bill relating to as many great interests, and
which has been passed by the Commons of England, by a
great and decisive majority, and supported by an equal
majority by the people at large, it cannot be necessary for
me to say that to such a Bill your Lordships are bound
to pay the most serious attention. My Lords,
the subject to which this Bill relates is of the greatest im-
portance. It is a Bill to effect a change in the constitution
of Parliament by altering the mode by which Members are
returned to represent the people. It comes before
you supported by a great majority of that House,
and I repeat it, by an equally great and decisive
majority of the people.—( Hear. ) I feel that in proposing
to your Lordships the consideration of this measure, .1
have taken on myself a duty to which I can bring
powers very inadequate to its importance.--( Hear,
hear, hear.) 1 feel, however, that I have on this occasion a
support and consolution, which, I trust, will enable me to
go through tie task. In the first pace, Ido not think it
now required to prove to your Lordships that this Bill
is one to which your assent is called by public opinion.
It cannot be necessary to show that the principle of
this Bill is one entitled to your Lordships' adoption.
bacause even by those most adverse to Reform, the
necessity of some Reform has been at length acknow-
ledged.—(Cheers.) Even this night we have had two
petitions presented to your Locdships ; the one purporting
to lie directly against the Bill, the other thanking your
Lordships for your conduct with reference to the
last Bill, but both most distinctly stating the opinions
of the Petitioners, that some Reform in therepresenta-

tion was_ at length requisite. In confirmation of this
opinion, the Noble Duke who presented the first petition
has given a notice to your Lordships, of his intention to
prose a Bill, which is to be founded on thhe principle
hitherto pronounced, not the principle of Morin, but of
revolution.—(Cheers.) On the principle of enfranchise-
ment, disfranchisement, and an extension of the repre-
sentation.

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM rose amidst the greatest
disapprobation of the House. His Grace said it would
save the time of the House if he now stated that the Noble
Earl was misrepresenting what he had said. He (his
Grace) had particularly guarded against using any words
that could be construed into a question of disfranchisement.
His object was to take the franchise from neboly.
Earl GREY—My Lords, it would be premature in me
to enter into any discussion, but even front the explana-
tion of the embryo Bill given by the Noble Duke, I do
not take the description I gave of it to be incor-
tect. If I recollhdt wk it the Noble Duke said

it was that he meant to give the franchise, that is to say,
the right of electing and returning Members to certain
great, opulent, and important towns. That, my
Lords, is what I call enfranchisement. Next I un-
derstood the Noble Duke to say, that in order to
make way for these new members, without altering the
number of representations in the Commons, he
certainly meant to consolidate, and unite cer-
tain Boroughs,—( Hear)—which now separately possess
the right to return M.mbers. If the Noble Duke
took from boroughs, each possessing a right to
return Members, that tight, and gave them only
a portion of the right, by a general sort of subscription,
that, emy Lord, I say, is certainly disfranchisement.—
(Loud cheers.) As to the third proposition, I do
nit think that the Noble Duke has di.puted it. He
stared, and dies not retract what he said, that he meant to
extend the right of voting. He, therefore, means to present
to your Loreships a Bill, and I beg your Lordships
to mark this distinctly—a Bill founded, I repeat,
and I repeat it not without attention to his
Grace's interruption and most unsatisfactory
explana ion--a Bill, indeed, founded on disfran-
chisement, enfranchisement, and extension of franchise.—
(Loud cheers,) The Noble Duke, therefore, has clearly
the design of presentidg a Bill, founded on those 3 great
principles, and those alone which the Noble Duke and his
friends had often told their Lordships were not the prin-
ciples ls et ofopposed
dp Reform,Lords,
eld atmoit. 1
therefore butT hyoeof
your
principlesr
r ele ro l
Lordships' revolution. My Lords, then I say
M
I am relieved from the necessity of judging any thing
in order to re recommend to your Lordships the adoption
of the principles of this Bill. The principle of the
Bill is enfranchisement, and here I think I might stop and
beg your Lordships to give your sanction to a measure the
principle of which is now acknowledged by those who are
m
iev ed
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understand whether he had come to the adoption of the
principles of this Bill or not, but the impression. on
my mind was, that he thought there was necessity and
expediency in submitting to some measure of Reform. 1
dont know, my Lords, whether that is his intention now
or not; but if he remains, such an exception I am
sure, my Lords, there are few others who will go
with him in putting an interdict upon the hue

iples of this, and also the necessity an! exretliencv true
-njoymeet of their political right,. My Lords, I think
of entering into this measure will tic admitted to
•ne, not only from the ackowlodged abuses which exist
in the present state of Parliament, but also from she
general sense of the public open the embjeet. If
nneerstond the ease, my Lords, those who
now assent to the necessity for a measure 'tt
Reform, and who have been with the greatest
difficulty got to give their consent to (pi Iffy it ;
and if I may so say, to excuse their opposition by stating
that some Reform will have their support. But that the
plan proposed lei His Majesty's ;Ministers went too far My
Lords the voice of the people has been so tinivers,Py
and generally expressed on this subject, that they no
longer think it right to withhold the assent of Perlie-
tnent to the adoption of some measure of Reform.
My Loads, I therefore say lam relieved from the necessity
(if that necessity had not been indeed greatly relieved by
repeated di.cuesions, in which every thing that couhl
be stated upon the general principle of the Bill, end
ef the general motives and views which led to its intro-
duction. I say, my Lord, I am relieved from the necessity
of going into further arguments or stet mtnents on
that point which has been so fully canvassed already tha t
it would be impossible for me to add any thing to which
I have hitherto said on the subject, and stillless to
what he had so ably stated by others. I shall there-
fine assure my Lord that :the :principles of this Bill ere
in a great degree admitted, and I shall proceed to examine
and state as shortly as I can the nature of this Bill. The
Bill, then, my Lords, to which I now desire the
assent of your Lordships, to the second of a Bill, founded
upon the same principles, being of the same nature
and containing similar provisions to that which
was introduced to you the las tStssions. (Hear, hear.)
My Lords, I certainly understand what that acclem mtion
means, and I think I shall be able to show clearly to
your Lordships that there is nothing in the statement of
this Bill bring founded on the same principiee and possessing
the same features and provisions as time Bill ef last ye tr, '
that ought to induce your Lordships to, withhold your
anent from this Bill. I say, my Lords, it is similar, and
founded upon the same principles.—( Hear, hear.)
I have heard nothing, my Lords, bet a general
description of the Bill proposed by the Nohle Duke, but
from what I have learned I must ray thos it will be
founded on the same principles as this Bill —( Hear,
hear.) Those principles, my Lot d, are diefraeiceaement
of decayed boroughs, enfranchisement of great and populous •
towns, and a consideralile extension of the right of ',mile!
upon the same principle'', and with the alterations the.
had been stated, this measure ie to be gain recommenele

to your Lordships—a Bill with this disfraitehisernent, era
franchisement, and the extension of the right or vo'inz—‘
(Hear, hear. )—and thin is what the _Voile Duke
called not Reform but Revolution. It is enfranchis,t-
'tient—it is disfranchi,entent—it is an extension of the
right of voting, therefore it is not Reform but Bert).
lution.—(Loud cries of " llear, hear.") By what
process of reasoning the Nohla Duke arrived at this
conclusion, or what his notion of Reform, as contridis-
tinguished to revolution, I know not, but I certainly can-
not conceive that the adoption of these princiucipies does
of itself entitle the measure which is founded upon them
to the character of being revolutionary.—( Hear, hear.)
My Lords, a Reform in Parliament undoubtedly sop-
pses a great change in the constitution of Parliament—
'hat is, in the practical constitution of Parliament as it
now exists —(Hear, hear.) A Reform of Parliament
necessarily supposes a change in the mode in which the
people are represented in the other House—hot all change
is not Revolutionary. —(Hear, hear, hear.) This change is
to be •ffect d by the acknowledged authorities, and
the ackknowledged principles of the Constitution. It
is to he effected by an Act of Parliament passed
by the united will of the legislation, the King, Lords,
and Commons.—(Cheers.) It is to be passed, therefore,
after sufficient and mature deliberation. It is to proceed
a cording to the known forms of the constitution, and to
be carried into effect by the acknowhifged authoriti,
of the State—carried into effect by the will of the three
co-ordinate branches of the Legislature, the King, Lords,

and Commons. He touches, therefore, none of a, ordi-
nary authorities—invades none of the forms of the Consti-

tution, nor the powers of the Crown which are intrumted
in the pres(rvation of the authorities of the State. With

such dikes not profess to meddle or interf-re.—(Cheers.)
Why then is it to he designated a revolution measure—

a word to be used only in reference to an in-

terferance with a succesion to the monorchy, or
the authority of the State.—(llear, hear.) It can only
mean that, and I say it does neither ; and that neither in
its character, nor in its terms, ror in its principles can

it be described to be revolutionary. It is a Reform of Par-

Hai:neat, and how, again I ask the Noble Duke, does he

distinguish Reform from revolution ? How it a Reform to

be effected? I know no way of effecting a Reform o' Par-
liament which presupposes some defect in the Consti-
.

tution of Parliament.—(Bear, hear, hear.) Some
deficiency in the mode of representation, but in one
os all of these three modes, either by disfranchising decayed
limroughs which was the ancient practice of the Cnns'itution
and cannot be considered as revolutionary.—(Loud cheers.)
And that is disfranchisement ; or by giving the tight

to return representatives to great towns which have risen
to opulence and importance, as well also the practice in
all times—and that is not revolutionary, hut reformation or
else by an extension and improvement in the right
f voting, which has also bccn done when a
change of times has required it, and which 1
again say is not revolutionary but Reterm.—(Loud
cheers.) By one, or either, or all of those modes is Reform
of Parliament, according to my notion, is to be effected ;
and aceordinglyz in all the plans that have hitherto been
proposed to Parliament—in all the plans hitherto proposed

)y the great mean who have preceded me, and in

which I ray have been pre,mmptuousenough to

have proposed to the other House of Parliament.
all the plans have proceeded either upon one or all of these
imdes.--(Cheers.) I trust, therefore, I stand here bringing

. . _
forward a measure, not going beyond the ancient lim,s of
the Constitution of the Country, and that can in any way
be considered as of a revolutionary kind. But is it necessary

to argue thus ?

Let us recur again to the great.

advadtage we have in bringing forward this measure in the
ganeral acquiescence of the people of this country.--(Hear. )
not of the mob—not of persons uninstructed in Reform.—
(Cheere.) Let not Noble. Lore imagine that that is the
description, and the only description of the persons who
have asked for this measure.—(Hear, hear.) But

that it is requested by the great mass of th
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

NAVAL INTELLIGENCE.

(From the Portsmouth Herald of Sunddy.)

Poxx.3)count, APRIL 7. —The Netley, to❑der to IL AI. S.
San Josef, arrived from Plymouth on Tuesday, and re-
turned on the following day.
MM. gun brig Recruit, 10, Lieutenant Hodges,
(having completed her provisions, &c.) sailed to the West-
war•! on Wednesday, on a cruise for the prevention of
smuggling.

The Arab, transport, Lieut. Harris, Agent, sailed on
Sunday for Leith, with the 82n4 regiment.

The Recovery, transport, Lieut. Bradly, Agent, sailed
on Sunday for Gravesend, with army invalids and Go-
vernment stores for Woolwich and Deptford.
The Nereid, freight chip (Jay), sailed on Thursday for
Gibraltar, with heavy ordnance for that garrison.
•
The Amphitrite, transport, Lieut. Cooley, Agent
sailed on Friday for Plymouth, with bread for the Vic-
tualling Establishment.
The Cygnet, transport, Lieut. Lester, Agent, now fitting
at Deptford, will proceed shortly for Halifax with a com-
pany of Royal Artillery fur that arsenal.
The Lord Wellington, transport, Lieutenant Woodman,
Agent, may be daily Looked for with the remaining com-
panies of the Ssth Foot from the West Indies.