The Sun.
London, England, 1866-02-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF COMMONS—This DA T.
The SPEAKER took the chair at two o'clock.
CATTLE PLAGUE BILL.

- Sir G. GREY moved the second reading of this bill.
Mr. HUNT said ho should not object to the second
reading of the bill, but he should reserve to himself the
• right-of moving, if he should think proper, any alteration
of the bill. He calculated that the Government ;bill was
not made to effect the object intended. Concessio as had
been made to certain towns to the great detrix lent of
others. He considered the bill a bad one, and he did not
move its rejection, because he was too much alive to the
danger of delay. Were he to move its rejection •the Go-
Ivernment party would at once say it was a party motion to
bring about a Ministerial crisis and produce a state, of chaos
in that house. lie had supported the Government on
many occasions, but since the removal by the hand of death
of the great master mind, his opinion as to the existence
of the present Government was by no means heightened.
He consented to the second reading of the measure, bad
as it was, solely to prevent further delay, but in. commit-
tee he could not see that it could pass without the first
20 clauses were omitted. Ho thought, struggle how they
might, the bill oven to be in the slightest degree effective,
must be made to stop all carriage of cattle for the present
on railways, and more stringent regulations enacted for
the moving of cattle on the high road.
Mr. BRIGHT thought there appeared to him to be a
good deal of party feeling mixed up with hon. gentle-
men's anxiety relative to the existing calamity. (Hear,
hear.) He thought the house was doing that which was
unwise; they were legislating in a panic. The great object of
the Government appeared to him, afteran attentive perusal,
to be an attempt at isolation, in which the hon. gentleman
opposite did not go far enough. The next was that there
was to be a Government permission to slaughter all cattle
attacked with the disease, or suspected of being ill ; and
the third point was compensation. He thought that grant-
ing power for indiscritnate slaughter would tend to set
aside all'attempts to arrive at a curative for the disease—
(hear, hear)—and farmers would take no steps, but would
quietly allow the cattle to be killed, because they
would receive compensation. In the Irish bill it was
thought possible that dogs might carry about the disease,
and therefore all humble curs—(laughter)—were to be
kept in close confinement. Now, he should like to know
from the hon. member for Northampton whether the coun-
try gentlemen, who were so strongly represented in that
house, would stand well with the country if the sport of
fox-hunting was carried on for the next month or so ? In
the paper that contained a report of the great meeting held
at Northampton, at which about 2,000 persons were pre-
sent—
Mr. HUNT—Five hundred.
Mr. BRIGHT was sorry that there was not greater
interest taken in the measure; but in the paper
to which he had alluded he found there were
no less than fifteen packs of hounds fixed for meet-
ings during the week, and who could tell the number of
miles and extent of country those hounds would traverse ?
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) If the disease is carried about
by everything that flies—by everything that creeps—why
not things which run ? (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He
could not approve of the compensation clauses, because the
-compensation was to be paid to rich men in that house and
out of it—(hear, hear, and oh, oh)—when nothing of the
kind was ever thought of in the cases of those who lost so
much by the cotton famine. (Hear.) He had been told that
the cattle disease had not killed more auimalslast year than
had died of the lung disease in 1860, and he should like to
know if that could be contradicted. That circumstance
showed the want of agricultural ;statistics, and who had
been more indisposed to allow such to be collected than
the farmers themselves. He objected to Voting money out
of the funds of the country to pay compensation to rich and
well-to-do farmers ; and what they should do was to strike
out this indiscriminate slaughter, and those by which
compensation was to be voted out of the taxes wrung from
the poor and struggling artisans, in order that rich men
might be compensated for that which they could well afford
to bear. He wondered they were not ashamed to pass
such a measure.

Col. LINDSAY supported the bill of the Government in
preference to that of the hon. member for Northampton,
as he looked upon the latter as too stringent and unwork-
able. The farmers had never expressed a wish that fox-
hounds should not run. If they had the country gentlemen
would at once cease from such sport. The hon. member
for Birmingham had transgressed the rules of that house
in speaking of that which he did not understand. (Hear,
hear, and laughter.) A fly might carry the disease, and a
bird do the same, but a foxhound did not do so. (Loud
laughter.) Ho should support the bill of the Govern-
ment.

Mr. LOWE said the hon. member for Birmingham had
endeavoured by his speech to get up a fight between the
humble cur and the lordly foxhound, and to manu-
facture a grievance. (Hear, hear.) He denied that the
bill was brought forward to benefit the rich and
large landowner at tho expense of his less fortunate brother
farmer. The compensation was to be given to farmers for
the public good, and therefore the money ought to be
taken from the general contribution. He pressed on the
Government to reconsider the question of conveyance of
the cattle by railway, because it was impossible to clean
the railway trucks so thoroughly as to render them free
from contagion within the time allotted. The bill, he be-
lieved, without these alterations were made, would share
the fate of many excellent people—namely, it would die
before it was thoroughly understood. (Laughter.) He
hoped the Government would withdraw the 18th clause,
which would remove a matter of much dissatisfaction from
the bill.

Mr. J. S. MILL said he agreed in the main with the
member for Birmingham ; but there was a point in the bill
which he could not assent to, and that was the compensa-
tion proposed by the bill, which he looked upon as exces-
sive; because by the bill as it stood the farmer would be a
gainer by the compensation if two-thirds the value of the
animal slaughtered was adhered to. He did not lookupon
the producer as the great sufferer—the consumer would
have to pay an increased price for his meat according as
the producer increased his price, which he would do as his
losses increased, and in that way the consumers would
be those who would suffer most, and therefore were the
best entitled to any compensation. (Hear, hear.)
He thought an aristocracy should have the feelings of an
aristocracy, and that they should not be the first to come
in and set up a claim for compensation. They bore all
the honours of the country, therefore they ought to bear
the brunt of an emergency that might arise.
Viscount CRANBOURNE thought compensation would
be looked upon not as an agricultural but a national ques-
tion, but he felt:certain that the superstitious reverence of
the Government for local authority would utterly destroy
the bill, and therefore he hoped the right hon. gentleman
would oven at that late stage reconsider the conclusions
he had arrived at.

Mr. AYRTON wished to know from tho Government
how the compensation was to be levied on animals slaugh-
tered in the metropolitan markets. It might arise that the
animals would be hurried from certain counties, whore they
were attacked by the disease, to the Metropolitan Cattle
Market for slaughter, and the compensation would there-
fore be cast upon the metropolis. He thought to become
entitled to compensation the animal ought to have remained
in a certain locality some time before the owner of it could

receive compensation for its slaughter. He should like to
hear the opinion of the right hon. gentleman the Secretary
for the Home Department on that point.
Mr. ACLAND hoped the Government would adhere to

ho presont provisions of the bill, because a departure

from them would, in his opinion, prove fatal to the mea-

sure.

Mr. N. GRENVILLE supported the bill brought by the
Government.

Sir G. GREY thought as there was a general agreement
,with respect to the bill of the Government, it should be
now read a second time. He should not object to the bill
of the hon. member for Northampton passing the same
stage in order that the question, upon which there was a
diversity of opinion, might be raised in committee.
The bill of the Government, as also that introduced by
Mr. Hunt, were then severally read a second time and
ordered to be committed to-morrow.
The house then adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAST EVENING.
THE CATTLE PLAGUE.
In reply to the Earl of WINCHILSEA,
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH said that the means
adopted in consequence of the order in Privy Council had
the effect of extending the disease, for where farmers found
that they were not to receive a compensation for the
slaughter of their cattle, they concealed the disease in
their stock, and took the matter into their own hands,
thereby disseminating the epidemic.
After a few words from Lord POLWARTII,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the Order in
Council referred to by the noble earl (Winchilsea) was, ho
thought, warranted by the spirit, if not by the letter, of
the act of 1848. h was by his advice that it had been
issued, for it was the only one that would have been effec-
tual for the purpose in view. No great harm could in any
case have been done, because the order only authorised the
destruction of animals already affected by disease.
The Earl of DERBY said that the object of the act of
1848 was distinctly liniited to the prevention of diseased
cattle being offered for sale. He could not understand how
it was supposed that such an act empowered the Privy
Council to issue an order for the destruction of cattle not
offered for sale. It was a most extraordinaryptretch of the
nature of an act of Parliament to say that because they had
powers to enforce the provisions, therefore they had power
to give any orders they thought fit to give effect to what
they called the object of the act. It was admitted that
these orders did not come within the letter of that act. A
number of persons, then, had had their cattle destroyed

Icontrary to law—that was, without the sanction of the law
—destroyed by an inspector without authority, because
there was no one to give that authority. Under these cir-
cumstances the persons so deprived of their property had
fair and legitimate claim for compensation, and for com-
pensation not to be levied on their neighbours and them-
selves—(cheers)—but from that Government who, contrary
to law, had deprived them of their property. Every person
whose cattle was destroyed had a perfect right to bring an
action for damages. Except in these particular cases his
own opinion was that the Government had fallen short
of what the law authorised them to do ; but clearly every
person who had suffered by their wrongdoing ought to be
compensated out of the public funds. Ho would much
rather not look back to what. had been
_done rightly or
wrongly; but would look forward to what could be done
at the last moment. ,The members of the Government
must agree that bptit in this house and, in another place
there had been no, indisposition fairly to consider the ob-
ject they bad before them, and no desire to put factious
embarrassments in their way. On the contrary, all parties
desired to render every assistance in their power. It ho
was rightly informed, the measure proposed by her Ma-
jesty's Government was of a very intricate and comp:icated
character. There was another and a rival bill brought
forward by an independent country gentleman, but there
were proposals on which all were agreed ; and, on the
other hand, there werea variety of minute details on which
there was the greatest possible conflict of opinion. He
would suggest to hor Majesty's Government whether, in
this pressing emergency, instead of proceeding with all the
details of a bill in all its stages open to discussion, they
might not endeavour simultaneously in both houses to
pass resolutions on which there was no difference of opi-
nion. Take, for example, the prohibition of fairs and
markets—the prohibition of the removal of stock, at all
events—until the 25th of March, as well as the power to
slaughter diseased or infected animals, and to prevent the
passage of cattle on roads or railways. In cases where
animals were slaughtered under the direction of the Go-
vernment, the parties whose animals were slaughtered
should be entitled to compensation. If these four resolu-
lutions were passed through both houses together, leaving
over the details of the bill and the question of the mode
of compensation, the Government might pass an Order in
Council givingeffect to those resolutions until the 25th of
March. That course might be completed in three days,
but he felt it was doubtful whether a bill of the compli-
cated character of that proposed by the Government would
pass through in three weeks. If they took the resolutions
he should not be disposed to criticise too severely the
terms in which they might be brought forward.
Earl GREY cautioned the Government against the adop-
tion of the suggestion just made. It seemed to him that
even in the face of this plague such a course would be a
dangerous precedent. Nothing was more important than
that Parliament should adhere to ordinary practice. He
. _ _

would therefore rather that the bill were allowed to pass
with lilt% discussion, leaving the responsibility of the
measure to her Majesty's Government.

The Marquis of BATH hoped the power of slaughtering
would not be given to the present inspectors, and that the
restrictions as to the removal in the south-west parts of
the country would be limited to the end of the present
month.

Earl RUSSELL expressed his opinion that the Orders
in Council came within the scope of the act of 1848, which
enabled them to make regulations for preventing the spread
of the disease. The order therefore was given, as neces-
sary for preventing the spread of the disease, that cattle
should be slaughtered, and he had observed, from various
meetings on the subject, that this step was absolutely re-
quired to be put in force. The question the noble lord
had raised was as to whether the public purse should be
made to pay compensation.

The Earl of DERBY—OnIy, in those cases where the
cattle were slaughtered by the inspectors without the au-
thority of the act of Parliament.

Earl RUSSELL said the noble earl took it for granted
they had exceeded the powers of the Act of Parliament.
If the inspectors had done anything illegal, there could be
an action against them, and of course the Government
would indemnify the inspectors. In fact, what those in-
spectors had don• was to destroy a nuisance. There
could not be a greater nuisance than diseased animals
from which there was a danger of the disease spreading
throughout the country. With regard to what the noble
earl said as to leaving this matter to the resolutions of
both houses, he agreed with the noble earl on the cross
benches (Earl Grey), that that was a dangerous precedent.
There might be some question raised as to the authority
of those resolutions. It appeared to him that it would be
better to take the opinions of the two houses in the ordi-
nary way. He did not see why the resolutions should not
be put in the clauses, and be agreed to in the manner in
which the Legislature was carried on.

The Earl of CARNARVON held that the slaughtering
referred to in the Act of 1848 applied only to sheep, and
not to horned cattle. According to the well-known
maxim, " delegatus non potest delegari," he could not un-
derstand how it was that the Lords in Council had power
to issue the orders they had to the local authorities.

Earl GRANVILLE had no doubt, that it was perfectly
competent for the Lords in Council to issue the orders
which they had made. The judgment of the Government
had been justified by the conclusions of the Attorney-
General, who was assisted in the matter by the Solicitor-
General, and by the permanent Under Secretary of the
Home Department.

Tho LORD CHANCELLOR desired to protest against
the supposition that he had authorised anything which he
believed to be illegal. Ho admitted that the Government
was in a great difficulty on account of the loose wording
of the act of Parliament. Still, although the particular pro-
vision related to sheep, thegeneral body of the act included
cattle. Further, what he had intended to convey was,
that as the act in question was of a remedial character, it
must be construed with a view to the detect intended to
be rectified. As for the objection founded upon the
maxim " delegates non potest delegari," all he could say
was that the consideration had not :escaped the attention
of the Government, but they had come to the conclusion
that in this instance there was no delegation of authority
at all. The act authorised was the act of Privy Council,
and all that the justices had to do was to say whether it
applied to a particular district or not.
After some observations from Lord MALMESBURY and
Earl GRANVILLE in reply, the subject dropped, and
Their lordships then adjourned.

Ex-Confederate Generals in the Southern
States.

If there is any peculiarity of the American people
which can surprise Englishmen and Europeans, it
is the ready alacrity with which the foremost leaders
of the armies, North and South, have returned to
the pursuits of peace. Many of the more promi-
nent ex-officers of the late Confederacy are setting
most excellent examples in this respect to their
Southern fellow-citizens. The smoke of battle had
scarcely drifted away from the field of Five Forks
before Fitz Hugh Lee was gathering together the
freedmen on his desolated plantation in Virginia,
and engaging them at wages to assist him in work-
ing his broad but wasted acres. General Pillow
also did the same thing in Tennessee, and other
Confederate officers imitated himself and Lee.
They seemed to realise their position and the con-
dition of the States in which they reside, and with
a true sense of duty they went to work at once,
without waiting to see what the United States Go-
vernment intended to do in the matter of recon-
struction or restoration. Their country was impo-
verished by the war, and the only way to relieve its
wants was to commence immediately to repair their
ruined farms, and place them again in a state of
cultivation. In their estimation it was proper to
leave politics alone, and trust to the wisdom of the
National Government for an adjustment of the
difficulties surrounding them in their new relations
to the freedmen. In this they acted wisely, and
while numbers of their Southern fellow-citizens are
dissatisfied with what has been done toward restor-
ing harmony, the men who exposed their lives and
jeopardised their property in the cause of treason
have been industriously pursuing peaceful avoca-
tions, and counselling
their neighbours, by word
and example, to submit quietly and obey the behests
of their Government.
We learn from Cincinnati the fact that ex-
Generals Pillow, Hood,
Heath Longstreet, and
others, once celebrated in the Rebel ranks,
city making extensive
have been in that
purchases of ploughs and other agricultural im-
plements, while at the same time they engaged
some sixteen hundred white labourers to go South
and aid them in developing their plantations. This
movement on the part of these in should exert
a great and beneficial influence throughout the
Cotton States. When such personages as Hood
and Longstreet set the example of enterprise and
submission to the laws, and exhibit a de • sue to ad-
vance the interests of their section of the Union, it
behoves their countrymen to emulate
abandon the foolish opposition against
the Govern-
ment which exists in so many portions of the
Southern States. The best thing
the people of the
late rebellious Commonwealths can do is to go to
work, as Hood, Pillow, Heath, and their asso-
ciates have done. Rascality, whether it be steal-
ing, murdering, or plotting treason, is generally
originated among thriftless idlers. An industrious
man is a contented man, and has no leisure to de-
vise mischief. Considering the miserable condition
of affairs in the late Confederate States, we should
think that work would be the motto, the watch-
word in every Southern community.