The Sun.
London, England, 1835-02-27 00:00:00

ADJOURNED DEBATE.

Mr. MULLINS moved the Order of the Day for the re-
sumption of the adjourned debate on the Address.
Mr. MULLINS then resumed the debate upon the Ad-
dress. After an apology for intruding upon the House, Ile
begged to express, in the name of his constituents, his
entire dissatisfaction and disapprobation of the conduct of
the Right Honourable Baronet since he took the seals of
office.—( Hear, hear.) Throughout the whole of this debate,
he had not heard one single solid reason for the dissolution
of the late House of Commons, and the Right Hon. Baronet,
in having recommended that measure, had incurred the re-
sponsibility of throwing the whole country into commotion.
The pretence was the breaking up of the late Cabinet, but
Lord Melbourne was obliged to resign office, not because he

was disposed to do so, but because his Majesty who had reposed
. confidence in the late Ministry for four years was induced to
dismiss it by the representations of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet, or some of his colleagues. The present Ca-
, binet might he very strong, but with all its strength
it was not able to obtain a majority in this House, which had
been pros' in a manner which could not be misunderdtood—
(Hear,)—and the Right Hon. Baronet would And that in other
divisions which were of increasing importance, that that
majority against the Government would also increase. The
Right Hon. Baronet, after opposing the Whigs, came forward to
propose those measures which were entirely consonant with the
principles of the late Government and the wishes of the Whigs.
What, he would ask, did the Speech from the Throne promise
to the people of this country ? Nothing, he was satisfied, that
was at all in accordance with the spirit of the Reform Bill, it'
the House was to take the hon. baronet's speech as an explanation
of the principles by which his Government was to be guided.
He ( Sir Robert Peel) did not state that he would be guided
by the spirit of the times, or that he would act upon those
considerations of expediency that influenced his conduct when
he yielded the measure of Catholic Emancipation—and that as
then, so would he now yield his own judgment to the wishes and
desires of the people. On the contrary the Right Hon. Bart.
has now asserted that his principles, and those of his colleagues
especially on the question of reform, remain unchanged ; end
that they are determined not to deviate from then:. What has,
the Right Hon. Baronet and his colleagues promised to do on
the subject of municipal reform ? All they have stated is, that
the return of the Commissioners " who were appointed is
appointed is not yet prepared, but they omit to state what their
intentions are, when that report has been laid upon the table.
If the declaration which was made elsewhere be any
guidance to us on this all-important subject, no-
thing can be expected from the present Administration
th p ow ers
The declaration he referred to was that of the present Lord
Chancellor, who stated when the question of issuing the Com-
mission on Municipal in discussion
t tat e h
Cn another
place,that Commissionl
did not possess, and which he (the Lord Chancellor) would
arl.
nieipal
was Reform
invested was underw
were illegal and unconstitutional. That Noble Lord stated
that the report of the Commissioners would be laid on the
table ; and when laid on the table, what was to be done
would depend on the nature of the evidence contained,
and on other circumstances. Can any man of common
sense after such a declaration, say that the Right Hon. Baro-
net and his colleagues really intended any measures of muni-
cipal reform that would he satisfactory to the people ?
It was easy for the present Government to profess re-
form ; but it was by their actions, and not by their pro-
mises that he would test their sincerity.—( Hear, hear. )
With reference to Irish Tithcs, did the Right Hon. Baronet
express any intention to introduce a measure which was likely
to be acceptable to the Irish people. He had not heard one
word that such an intention existed.--( Hear, hear.) Did the
Right Hen. Baronet mean by the Church Commission to con-
travene the tithes, or did he mean to deal with them on
the principle of expediency. Or would his measures main
tain the principle which the Bill introduced last session,
by the late Secretary for Ireland, or did he mean to limit the
extent of his intended measure. He thought, and he was
' sure the House would agree with him, that before he asked the
confidence of the House he would to its satisfaction explain what
were his intended measures. He must still know that the
system of tithes in Ireland met with universal execration.--
( Cheers,) And if the Right Honourable Baronet meant
to act fairly by the country, he would not cloak Isis mea-
sures behind the prerogative of the throne, but fairly submit
them for the consideration of the House. He had not said
one word of municipal reform. Would the Right Hon.
Baronet state whether he was willing to go as far as the
Government which had been lately dismissed, and that without
a particle of cause.—( Cheers,)—while the Right Hon. Baronet
persevered in such a course he had no right to ask thq support
of the House to an Address founded upon such a Speech, and
he would therefore support the Amendment. Ile trusted if the
Right Hon. Baronet had any spirit or feeling of justice he
he would evince a disposition to satisfy the expectations of
g reforming country, which Ireland was, upon a subject
of such vital interest to its peace, prosperity, and happiness.
If it were inquired who were the supporters of the present
Government, it would he found that very few members of the late
parliament were among them. He would also assert that public
opinion was very different from what the Right Hon. Baronet
represented it to be; and he was sure that the present Ad-
ministration would not obtain a majority on so important a.
subject as the one now before the House. The Right Hon.
Baronet had Conte forward on no good or ficcppsible grounds:,
and neither was he prepared to propose such measures as
would satisfy the people. Did, therefore, the Right
Honourable Baronet act honourably towards that House
and the country in sanctioning the ejection of the late
Ministry, and thus destroying the peace and tranqpil-
-14 which the kingdpm pujQyed under the Admintstra,
tion of Lord Melbourne, and by holding out promises
rs hich he never intended, and knew lie never could perform ?
The country, however, would speedily discover, and was al-
ready persuaded, that their promises were delusive, and, there-
fore, never would give its suppqrt er confidence to, the present
Ministry.
Mr. FINCH said, he was too well aware of the respect that
was due to the House, and of the greater title which many
other gentlemen had to its attention, to trespass long upon it.
Although the prerogative of the Crown was a legal •
and legitimate right of the Crown, yet it ought always to be
exercised in accordance with the wishes and feeling* of the ;
people? lie 4i4 net, however, recollect in • the course of
history any instance in which that prerogative had been I
exercised more legally and legitimately than in the dis-
missalof the late Ministry. If he understood rightly the
principles of the Reform Bill, it was merely intended to effect 1
such reforms, and to correct such abuses, as the Constitution ,

PRICE 7D.

admitted of.. He would ask whether the Right Hon. Baronet
had not followed the spirit of the Reform Bill in its true sense by
the Reforms • which he had proposed ?—( Hear, from the
Ministerial Benches.) But the Gentlemen on the other
side of the House, nevertheless, expressed a want of con-
fidence in that declaration. But nothing would put
the claims of the Opposition on so solid a basis as if
the Right lion. Baronet were not to fufil his pledges. It
was one thing to support a set of men when in
power, and another thing to support them when out
of power ; and, therefore, there was no inconsistency in
the conduct alluded to by the Honourable Member. • The
Hon. Member then alluded to Mr. O'Connell having designa-
ted the address of last session -as " bloody and brutal, and a
declaration of civil war," avid yet that address had been carried.
Was the Learned Member for Dublin prepared to laud that
Parliament, while he had thus designated its address ? Mr.
Finch then alluded to the manner in which Mr. O'Connell
had spoken, last session, of the f.'Q nduct of the late Parliament
towards Ireland. Was Mr. O'Connell then prepared to sup.
port the present Amendment, which lauded that' Parliament ?
The new measure introduced by Ow late administration•was for
the co utation of tithes, the principle of which measure was,
that tithes should be appropriately distributed among the clergy.
This measure, however, produced no impression on the Hon. and
Learned Member, for agitation still continued, and it was
stated by him publicly that agitation was necessary for procuring
justice for Itellhd. At this time a report was tirasse np by the
Noble Lord then at the head of the Government, but there was
a subsequent oemmunication made by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman then Secretary fnr Ireland, without the consent and
direction of the Noble Earl, and a report was founded that they
might form some measure different from thatthat badlseen given
by the former oornmiqsion, when this unparalleled measure
was done. He did not wish to detain the House with
• what would be his expressions if he were to condescend to
describe them ; yet it was Well known, that the Noble Lord,
then Chancellor • of I'7: x fhegller, on his hearing of
that communication was so astounded, that the consequence
was a temporary resignation of his office. Immediately upon
that Lord Grey himself resigned, and, in assigning as his rea-
son, he stated that he had lost his right arm in the resig-
nation of his Noble Friend, and that, without his assist-
ance in the House of Commons, it would he found in:pos-
sible to carry on the government of the country.—( Hear.)
We were told that the Melbourne Administration had not
been tried. Yes, they had been tried—they had been acquitted,
and had been again tried and convicted—thee had been
first tried and were acquitted by the Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin ( Mr. O'Connell)—they had been tried a
second time and condemned by all parties as incapable of
discharging their duties. If that Administration could have
been sustained Ur the appointment of any individual to super-
intend it, Earl ey ought to have beer, selected by them. To
Say nothing of his high sense of honour—his unsuspected
political integrity—( Cries of " Hear, hear")—not to menu
tiOn his partiality for those who epteposed that Administration,
for the Noble Lord was acquainted with them all—he knew
them all when in office—yet what did he say respecting
them ? He declared that if Lord Althorp ceased to
be a Minister, he (Lord Grey) would he incapable
of carrying on the Government. The Sovereign thus cir-
cumstanced was perfectly justified to select an Administratioe
competent to carry on the affairs of the Government, and if
any responsibility attaches on account of the exercise of the
prerogative, the Right Honourable Baronet, as Minister of the
Crown, under the circumstances, may safely undertake
We are told that the principles of the Melbourne Admi-
nistration are a new distribution of the revenues of the
Irish Church. What was meant by a new distribu-
tion ? The Noble Lord ( Stanley) gave a definition
of what it was last night. Lord Brougham had formerly given
the same opinion, What, be (Mr, Finch) would ask, was
meant by a new appropriation but taking away a part of them
and giving them to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and
placing it under the controul.of the Roman Catholic priests.
( Cries of " No, no," from the Irish Members. ) He (Mr. F. )
thought that that was the opinion of the Noble Lord ( Re sell)
opposite—of Lord Lansdowne and of Mr. Riee. He under-
stood that after appropriating what would be sufficient of these
revenues for the proper maintenance of the Established Church,
the supplies should be converted into a fund disposable for the
-education of all classes of his Majesty's subjects,—( Hear. )
Now it was well known that the Roman Catholic Church
did not allow education to be given to Roman Catholics,
on principles of which Protestants could app. ove.
Therefore, the new appropriation contemplated was different
from that for which they were designed. The amendment of
the Noble Lord merely announced a fact they all knew very
well—namely, thet the Reform Bill had been carried three
years ago. He could not then support any such amendment. He
maintained that such appropriation of the Church revenues
was a violation of the coronation oath. Ort3haLacesiont. rts
well as on account of the conduct of the AriSinene Admi-
nistration on the subject of the Irish Tithe Bill—of the Irish
Coercion Bill—and because their incapacity was declared by
Earl Grey—on all these grounds their dismissal was perfectly
justifiable.

Captain BE RK EL EY said that he should make a few re-
marks in statirg his reasons for giving his vote. While he
did so he regretted the absence of the Right lion. Baronet.
The removal of the late Ministry was a justification for
' for his supporting the Amendment; they were dismissed even
without a trial. If the vote which he was about to give
bad no other object in it than the removal of the present,
he would give it. He had 1000 other reasons for supporting
the Amendment. Amongst others were the feeble attention
to the claims of the Dissenters—(Cheers)—as also their op-
position to the Reform in the Irish Church, and moreover
their neglect in correcting the abuses of their own church.
—( Cheers.) He thought it was impossible, as the present
Cabinet was composed, that it could longer exist. The Right
Hon. Baronet and his colleagues gave Lord Grey's Government
few opportunities to carry into effect those measures, which
they were now so anxious to hold office bt their tenure.--
( Loud cheers.) As an excuse for abandoning their princi-
ples, they said that they were forced to it by external
pressure : that was the language of the Right Hon.
Baronet, whose ability and talent for office no person
could deny, and he entertained no doubt that his ta-
lents would be exercised to the advantage of his country,
but while he had such colleagues they were neutralised, and
would prove valueless.---( Cheers.)Q Under all the circum-
stances he could not consistently discharge his duty to those
he represented if he gave any vote but in favour of the amend-
ment.

An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, but
who spoke froin the Ministerial side of the House said he could
not but express his dissatisfaction at the slight and insignificant
mention in the address of the distress of the agricultural classes
(loud cries of " Hear"). No class had borne more distres,:,
or had borne it more patiently. He regretted this the more
bitterly, because he knew that the agricultural classes would be
greatly disappointed, and if the Government should be under
the necessity of again appealing to the country, he was afraid
that this neglect would he the means of alienating from
the Government that support which, at the late eleetloii,
they had afforded so nobly, and with such effect.—(Cheers.)
He, however, approved of the principles upon which relief
was to be given, for if he understood rightly it was
itt
contemplation to introduce measures of relief; but as for
county rates, repairs of highways and bridges, these
would be wholly insufficient as a means of relief—they
must have those broad and substantial reliefs which
were become indispensably necessary. Concurring, however,
as he did, in the Address, he would support it to the best
of his abilities, as he could not but regret the factions
opposition—(Loud cheers)—banded together for the purpose
of promoting their own selfish plans.—( Renewed cheering
from the Ministerial benches.)
Mr. G ILL ON said it was his intention to vote for the
amendment. He did so although i.e did not altogether concur
in the tenor of it, as in his opinion it wanted that force and
strength of expression which their constituents had a right
to expect from them at a crisis like the present.—( Cheers. )
It did not sufficiently bring forward the feelings which in-
duced him to vote on the present occasion—feelingi
which were shared by a great preponderating majority
of his countrymen, and which were expressed by a
total want of confidence in the promises of the present
Administration.— (Loud cheers.) When he saw a great
political party arrayed against them, which had de-
parted from the political principles of their whole life--
when he saw them adopt the principles of those men
whom they so unceremoniously turned out of office, he could
not help feeling alarm. An appeal had been made to the
country, and in no part of the empire was that appeal more nobly
responded to than by Scotland. The people of that country
had declared by their representatives—by a majority of two to
one, that they would place their liberties at the feet of a party
who in their former Administration were only known by an
extravagant debt and augmented taxation—the encouragement
of despotism abroad, and the suppression of freedom at home.
He rejoiced that the appeal of the present Government by the
dissolution of the late. Parliament had been so ably responded
to by the people—( Hear; hear.) The Right Honourable
Baronet had, told the House that during the two last
Sessions of Parliament he had adopted the principle of the
Reform Bill, ar expression which had been re-echoed to-
night; and, as an illustration of that, he referred to several
votes which he had given, supporting the- measures of
that Administration which brought forward the Reform Bill ;
but when he (Mr. Gillen) looked to see what those measures
wore which he had supported, whether in opposition to, or in
concurrence with, the Administration, he found they were
measures always opposed to the people's wishes, from the intro-
duction of the Irish Coercion Bill, which had cast a dark
shade over the commencement of the first Reformed Parlia=
ment—(hear, hear, hear)—down to the refusal to admit the
Dissenters to the Universities ; he found that whenever taxes
which pressed heavily on the pcoduotive classes were pro-
posed tci repealed, the Right Honourable Baronet
4pOied that repeal ; he found that whenever it was proposed
to abolish pensions or sinecures, the Right Hon. Baronet and
his party threw around those pensions and sinecures the
shield of their votes and eloquence.--( Hear, hear, hear.)
But when it was proposed to cast the Ooereion Bill upon the
breast of a misgovered poople---( Hear, hear, from the Irish
lliem.beta)-,-titere was the Right Honourable Baronet