The Sun.
London, England, 1803-06-04 00:00:00

~~

;~.

In,

ICI

'r

u

as with observingt_that he had stated as
shortly as he teas able, though at far tab great a
length for the patience of the How: 'but. he did sot
in the full conviaion, that he was doing no more
than discharging his duty. It did appear to him,
there was sulfiCienteground for supporting all the
Resolutions whiclehati been submitted to the House
7-rthat they were. supported by evidence that was
clear and. indisputable. Fie had hitherto heard no
argument to show, that, those Propositions Otight not
to be. entertained by the tiotise, nor any thing ..in
the colOurof an argument, except, that, the present
was not the time ,for the discussion. of the sub..
jest. • Now the House would give him leave
to say, that he was of another .opinion he
ihnught. that so far, from its being an Improper,
time, that it was of all times the fittest. for this
discussion ; and the Houie
,would give him leave
to say, that unless such'a diseussi re As this, upon
an occasion like this was' to be entertained, he ap.
ptehended the refusal 'of hearing it would amount
to a total extinaion of the best fundlions of that
namely, an inquiry into the condud of the
Executive Government upon important occasions.
He had acquiesced, when it had been on a former
occasion, stated. that theseinquiries ought nor to
be entertained pending Neg. otitition--ebut if such
inquiries were not to be entertained when a Nego_
elation was over, and if when such Negotiation
Wag over, he was to be told' it was not to be en.
tertained because we were in a state,.of 'War, he
must beg leave to a-k, at what titre and on what
occasion such discussion was to be,.entertaihed at
all, and he had no d4ii,!ulty in saying, that, this
was the proper time far this purpose, and he sub.
mined it .to the House in the conscientious
chagc of uur imperious duty, a duty which. he
4`oultinar Omit to perform without sacrificing the
best interest of his country.
.714 CII/INCEL1:01? of EXCIIEQUfiR
sai%l,, that the Right Hole Ceentleman who had just
sat down, did not appear, at thi.commencement of
a very able speech, to have done justice either to
Berne HE Gentlemen who had spoken.on that sub.
jeei, or to Ministers who had hitheroemaintained
silence. It was his wish that all possible ()prim.
pities should be afrarded, for Gentlemen to expresb
their sentiments upon the, Resolutions new before
the House. It did appear' to him, that although
there was no want of ability in the statetnent, of the
tion..Gentleman by whom the Resoluiions were
moved, nor on the part of .those, by whom the
Resolutions were supported; yet that. there were
as strong and good reasons given by those:by
"hat the Resolutions were. resisted : and there.
lure it was not until a greater detail had been
tnterel into of the conduct of 'Ministers, that he
felt himself called upon to take any part in this
det)atv ; neither ‘.!-0 he sune he should have risen
had it'not been for seine particular exptes.
• 410ris* mide use ,of-by the Righrlion. Gentleman
Who spoke last,' Who'had 'hecn pleased, to, lend'the
authority —Of his high name to a 'certain detail of
circumstances which was inCOqiet: .He'wishcii to
4be underttao that notwithstanding all that had
-been said upon the subjed'of the Treaty of Amiens,
notwithstanding all that had' been said 'by thc Right'
Hon. Gentleman andlyereothers-, notwithstanding a
(1400sitiOn which had been manifested for' the rite-
-Pose of making an unfavourable iinpresion on that;
I-louse arid the Counity with regard to the Cunha of
'41.4 'Majesty's Ministers in 'reference to that
Treaty, be begged leave to say, that he was now
, of the same option With resped to the Treaty. of
Amiens, as he was at the time that Treaty Waa ori.
,giaallY discussed. He was now confident, 'notytrith-
• standing all altar had been said to the contrary, that.
the. Treaty. of Amiens had been toodtidtive of cir.
eurustances the most beneficial to this o.tintry. He
was satisfied, that the moment he now had the ho.
nour ofadd ressing the Chair, that, !Mt for thatTriaty,
he should not have the satisfadion of addressing the
S,LAICSIt and the House under circumstances of so
much advantage to-this Country, as he now felt it
Imbeessed. It was owing to that Treaty, that there
'kat' now felt -in this Country so midi confidence
of strength, vigour, and unanimity—that if this
Stigmatised, Treaty' had not taken place, he Was.
confident we shohld not possess those advantages
At the present hour; he would go farther and say
-that, not only had' this Country not 'agreed- to that
Treaty,. but ASO to the manner it which it had been
observed and maintained inviolate on the part of
this Country during the iperiod•which had elapsed
4ince the signature -mull the rupture of the Nego-
tiation which rook, place at Paris, much advantage
would have been'losr. He averred with the strict.
est truth, though he knew there were imputations to
the contrary, that it had been the nearest wish of-his
heart, and lie was Sure the same sentiment' was
tertained by all his Colleagues, that the Peace sti.
inflated to he maintained between the two Coun-
tries, should have been Preserved inviolate ; that it
should be so preserved, consistently with the-honour
and dignity of this Nation, was. the object of Hit
Majesty's Ministers in the late Negotiation.' • With.
regardtothe Policyofthe War, 'he would only say,
lie knew of no such policy ; War he did not regard
as:a matter of policy, but nil thing to be submitted
,to.asat matter of neceseity. Peace was the objed
of, this Country at all times, when: it ;was guided by
sound policy, but lie should be ashamed of harbour.
4061116'a0r wish even for Peace itself, except
such as might effedually secure the Honour, the
hdependence, and true Interests Of this Country;
he knew that in saying this, he spoke the sentiments
Etlall hit; Colleagues, sentiments whichba,d been be.
fore expreesed' by. his Noble Friend,'; He then pro.
ceeded to 'observe, that in eitteritt, into the Jost
'Treaty of Peace,' His Majesty's ;Ministers were of
Opinion that great allowance tie:glit' to tae m4e
with regard to the state of 'France at that period.
--But without justifying or palliating the conduoof
the individuel who was .at the li44'of France, the
Governmetn of this Country. wiwaisposed."? oldie
great' allowances-en account of the time in which
the Negotiation' was. Car'ried on. and concluded he
tween ihe' two. 'Countries, the lititation
that indiviltud stood ; after having, his mind elated
end, his appetite for dominion pampered, his repu-
tation much enlarged, and his passions' Mitch in-
11*nM; -it was harshly to be expeiletithatelatelltinid
yttdO)en, and all at once calmly 'enjoy his triumphs,
alit!
,otnothiiig hot' the' rational and ttnge-illte--

tinder a

country tt was his lot to govern:, aese
sentiments, considering all the circumstanced of
time, place, condition and temper of the
vidual, and marry other points which could hardly
be stated, His Majesty's Ministers owed a duty of
forbearance with regard to this individual, whi'cli
• to another person, under other circumstances, they
would not have shewn. These considerations ope.
rated on the minds of His Majesty's Ministers,
and they had aced upon a full consideration of
them, according.to•the best of their judgment; and
they trusted, that although-there certainly .was in
that House a considerable disposition to blame
them, yet that they should be approved in general
by the House. and by the ?üblic. He would say,
he asked for the opinion of the. iiouse upon this
subject, with MI confidence, for he had no difficulty
id stating, it was owing to that disposition for
bearance that we owed the blessings of Peace. Let
it he said of Ministers, if some Gentlemen pleased,
that they had delayed the renewal of hostilities,
weeks, and perhaps months too long, but let it not
be said that they had commenced hostilities too soon;
if discredit attached upon them.for not being std.
ciently quick to enter into the quarrel, theyshOuld not
find themselves insupportable under that accusation;
but, on the other handi if discredit attached to
them on account of having gone too soon into the
dispute, when somemight think that by patience
the. contest might have been avoided, such an int
putatiun, if well founded, might not only be dis-
crelitable to His Majesty's Ministers, but also
highly disadvantageous to the Country' itself, in
the pursuit of the object for whiCh it was now con.
tending, for it was essential that we should support
the Contest with vigour, which nothing was so
likely to diminish as. a consciousness that it was un.
(hunker) rashly. This consideration, he confessed,
operated powerfully on the minds of His Majesty's
Ministers. iiHis.Majesty's Ministers were ac.
cured of having shewn too much forbearance upon
this occasion, they would,, to save their accusers a
great deal of trouble, plead guilty ; • but then they
begged leave to deny, it appeared from the docu.
meats on the Table that His Majesty's Ministers
. had made any unbecoming concession to the Enemy.
That their spirit of forbearance might have been
carried. too far, was what he was ready to admit,
but be begged leave to denyagain that there was
in the Papela laid before the House any proof 'of
an unbecoming submission on the part of His Ma.
jetty's Ministers.. He said he was now anxious to
advert. to that p‘art of the Right. Honourable Gen-
tleman's Speech, which charged Government with
having failed io their duty, by having withheld
information rrom .the House, and also or their hay.
ing held out expeetations. of Peace, and expressed
opinions With regard to its continuance, which
were not warranted by the circumstances, - upon
which, Gentlemen had said, many inconveniences and
some evils arose : in doing this, allusions were made
to some expressions of his : here be begged pardon
of the Chair' for what he was going to submit, be-
cause he, knew it was not strictly reguhr, and could
only be heard by leave ; but yet he could not help
thinking that the ieregularity might be thought ex.
cuseable, since it might cast some light .upon the
subject in debate, and 'he thought that for the sake
of praftical effea, the House would perhaps not
only`att justifiably, but wisely in permitting a re.
ference sometimes to a former debate ; for the Words
made use of, particularly by public'and responsible
persons on-former occasions, might be essential to
the discussion of a subjed to which it afterwards refer.
red. The Rt. Hon. Gent, who had spoke last, had
referred, to some words used by him on a former occa-
sion in that House on discussion of the De.
finitive Treaty. In the course of tfiat Discussion
his Noble Friend; (Lord, HAWKESBURY) had stated,
that there was to be no reliance on the continuance
of Peace, but such as accorded with the interest of
. the. Power with which we made it, and our own
strength, and the security which we could depend
upon ourselves for., He illustrated this by a refer-
ence to the condo& of France liter the • Peace of
Paris, and other instances, in which France was
preparing for an irtfraeron of.. the Treaty immedi.
ately after it. was concluded. It was after that ob.
nervation was: made by my Noble Friend, said Mr.
ADDINCTON, " .03 I said I saw DO reason to
doubt the continuance of Peace; but I stated at
that time, that yOn had no chance of the continu.
ance of Peace, except .from what arose front your
own strength. When the Preliminaries were clic-
cussed I was of that opinion, and I was desirous of
not being misunderstood on other occasions. The
Right Hon. Gentleman has also stated, that I said
on a similar occasion, that knew of nothing in
.the charafter, • condua, or disposition of the indi.
vidual who was then and who" is now at the head
of the Government of France, that Made' any dif-
ference in that opinion.: Let not Gentlemen sup-
pose that I meant then any more than I do now, to
compliment the person who was then and who is
now at the head of the Government of France. I
had not then, ror have I nciw, any such intention.
I said then what I tht ught--4 might he _mistaken
the event has proved I was so ; but I said what
thought, which was, that, there was nothing which
led me to suppose that the Government of
France was disposed to renew hostilities with
; this Country, and I was led particularly to form,
that opinion, since I saw the person who was at
the head of the afrairs Of France employing, what
remained of the Naval Power of that Country for
the purpose of re-establishing order in DOMingo,
_for I considered that .as evidence of a pacific system,
as far as that Country was concerned. Al to what
was said on the day the Address was moved, on the
aid Of November last, it is stated, that L.,believed
' there was no probability of a breach of Peace at
that period. That I poSitively denya-swhat I said
Vas in answer to what had been. said by an Hun.
Gentleman opposite to me. He sail, that he was
extremily concerned to find,. from the -declara.
lion of His Majesty's Ministers, that. the War
was• likely to be renewed. I took down the
words of that Honourable 'Gentleman; my words
were, that nothing bad fallen- front. my Noble
Friend or myselfby whieh it could beeolleded that
War was likely to be renewed. Vain quite sure
that was all I said upon tharsubjea. It was at the
close of the debate. That neither I.norrny Noble
Friend had said that the war was likely to' bp 0.

rtemt say, there was no. a
,nty of the renew a,
of hostilities. There certainly was no protability,
in my opinion at that tinie, of the renetvaLd hosti-
bur.l di ti not say so, . The Right Von. Gen.
tleman (Mri G.g.ittet, 'AA) has stated cortenly my
langu tge op the fiubjed to which he refers j brit
the Noble Lott, ('rkmpLE) has not done So::, he his
inadvertently given to me, ,words which I never
used. I state this, not merely to justify myself,
but also ; the rest of His . Majesty's, Govern.
ment : neither of us said what the . Noble Lord
has attributed :to us in November last; namely; that
there was rib probability of the renewal of Hosti.
lities. I aver that what I now state is perfeftly
corral. An Hon: Gentleman has' alluded also to
what 'I said on the discussion of the lnoorne of His
Royal* Highness the Prince of Wales, and that I
said then we were in. a -state of .profound Peace.
I cannot speak with as Much confidenie of what I
said 'on that day* on the other occasion to which
I alluded 4 I mean. the 23d 'of November, because
the words I then uttered were not considered with
the sante attention as those on the wirer occasion.
I firmly believe however that I never uttered the
words, Profound Peace. I made a distinfflon be.
tween the time in which I was speaking of the affairs
of His Royal 'Highness, and that of the year 1796,
when a certain proportion of thancome .of His Royal,
Highness Was set apart for the liquidation ,of his
debts. I said that in.the' year :796, the measures.
adopted, were so adopted with ,a reference to the
difficulties of the Country,' on account of its being
in a state of War and then Tasked the blouse,
whether they would' adopt the same measure itt a
tithe of Peace it had adopters in -time of War.. If
I uttered the word profound, it was- only because the
word " profound," and . the word t, Peace," are so
apt to be coupled together, but it was not. with a
view of pronouncing an earphaticalsentence„mean.
ing to hold out are expedarion'of the continuance of
Peace,at -altevents, that.' made use of the words Pro.
found Peace-, if I uttered the words. With regard to
what I am stated to have said of Peace on theditcus.
.ion of the Consolidated Fund,l can safely say,that on
that, occasion les:pressed no opinion whatever con-.
corning the continuance of Peace ; what I stated on
that occasion was, that I looked forward with satis.
fadion,and that was with a reference to the abundance
of the Country, of its means and resources, and I ex-
pressed a hupe,that they should be employed, not
for the purposes.of aggrandizement of this Country,
but merely for the purpose of preserving its just
Rights, and for the preservation of Peace. I am
sure that I stated. I•felt a satisfadion in knowing
that the means 'or strength of the Country should
not be applied for the purposes of ambition, but for
the purpose of maintaining our Rights. Having
said tints much on words uttered by myself, I am
very glad to relieve the House from any further
reference to any language -of ,my .own; but here
let me. recur to the tecolleetion of the House,
,ind not only the recollelion of the, House have
I to assist' me, but I. have also the record of
the House—then you will • find what were the-
sentiments of His Majesty, as uttered 'from the
Throne. It is said that the Speech of His. Ma-
jesty
,to the two Houses of Parliament 'is the
Speech of the Minister. As. one of the advisers
of His Majesty, I must take my share of respon.
sibility for such advice, and of course for that
Speech, which, like the other Ads of the Crown,
is the result.of advice—but there is nothing in that'
Speech of His Majesty to the circa insisted upon by
Gentlemen on the other side of the House—nor is this
alkfor I would have Gentlemenlook to the Address
which was moved upon the occasion of that Speech,
and also the Amendment. On the 23d of Novem-
ber His Majesty delivered a Speech from the
Throne; but does that. Speech state any thing•of
what His Majesty would have stated if there was
no doubt of Peace ? No, if the case had been so,
the expression would have been as is usual
.on
all such ' occasions, that His Majesty received
assurances of the 'friendly dispositions of Foreign
Powers, If His Majesty ima received such
assurance., such an expression would. not have been
withheld. The -very absence of it created a great
deal of apprehension that War was likely to take
place. Was icto be supposed that on that very
day when 1 had, as I fadmitt I had, advised His
Majesty to deliver that Speech, that I should
have given an assurance' from myself, that
there was no such thing as an apprehension of a
breach of peace, or an assurance there would be no
hostility ? I say that under all these circumstances,
it is impossible should have given any such assu.
ranee ; but• independent of all this, there is an event
which took place in. the House,' and it is an ad of
the House itself passed . with reference to the state
of France, and the necessity of our not being too
secure of peace.' I mean the: large, Vote of .the
Natal Force. Now if we were as desirous to de-
ceive the House as we are stated to be, in giving
assurances of the 'permanence of 'tranquility, Polit.
mint did not fall into the deception, for Parliament
agreed to an establishment of a Naval Force near,
three times as large as that of a Nape Establish.
ment, and also that of a Military' that was more
than double. Should we have asked this large force.
if we were assured of Peace ? Or if the House was
satisfied that Peace was secure, would, , have

prob

t~ii

granted this large force unnecessarily, for it would
have been 'unnecessary if Peace had been securb

The language of Hi, ajesty's Speech, the language
of the Address, nod the 'Vote of the I louse after:.

• .
wards for so large a force, -.constituted the, best
proof that could be offered. of .His •Majesty's iViiii.
stets nor having deluded the Public with false as_
surances of the cOntinuance of Peace, and die impro.
liability of hostilities." To this, he uhierve.t,

should he aticied the 'ciicuithtanoe of the Bank

Restritii9n Bill. Upon tivt occasion one Gen.
tletnan declared, that if the Minister should .14..

sure hins that the state of Europe was such as
to reader that measure neceisary; he shoula ac,

quiesce.

He told that lion. Gentleman that the

crate of Europe was such as to .futtush 'btrckilg argti.
meat for the measure, -op which the oppnsttion,to
that Bill reoseil. This was another. proolthat Mi.
iiiSters had nor lulled the' Public into a false security

of PeAct% 11. e trusted the House was .ntiw of opirtilin

is
I'3ll anit-vered the. imputation Cillt upon him for
laving held out Feist assureoces of Peace to delude

.he Cuuntry, ar7o-"Chaviiig withheld any material

I

elf,, thatthe,c;titittitfiinal,Priiinea,.of lotea!
bad ,lieeo affthetqy, his, hriv ing 141;1)40.f
[ll6ol64tiorl: " sai(i 114,4: there ti nt,pnior
on AIWA I am less.aisposed to eeter t!-,e
cuss:oh Atari thitit 14..3 question coneernirg Coo;
stitutibnar Privileges of this I admit,. to the
Whole ement, the right of !WI, 1-touse to demand. ittfOra
Metion; as far as I .am able to judge; 'Ow eight in
itself is unlithitcd; belt in any eases of theeXer.
cite of that rikhr, there is a. discretioe whi eh it
always observes :—and on the sUbje4 Intim'.
matiofi to' he given to the .House, there is also,
a Certain discretion to lie allowed ro Ministers--it
diicretion, Er the ;cierciie.uf Which they arc re..,
SponSiblB-to tfiiiHouse,ant(tnthe Public ;- and tfere
are sortie ms nces iii which not only :,re Mini.
sters id be eicused l'Or'not mdking any Communi.
cation; bin their duty requires that they shothd'not
make any Communication." tie then Tioecedeit
to observe oh the complaint oVhich had been made
by M. Otto, undet sit heads;lagainst our- qivern_
ment; whichliad been artsWeied by a Paper now Oct
the Table; which document Was drawn by his Noble
Friend, and which be hats the Stoisfaelimi reeol;
leak% was agreeable to the Ffuuae ; and it was so
far satitfattory even td the Enemy, that the French;G )vernment %vete silent upon it for a considerable
time : this Paper bad in ide a deep ittipression on all
'hose who had perused it. As to f.,,,vitilerland, the
Right Honourable Gentleman-had accuseti'Ministers,
for not Sending Mr. Moore' thither in • June i`to.
stead ,of October : upon this subjen he must ob.;
serve, it was the earnest wish of' His Majesty's
Government that the Swiss should be made lice
but it was. also the convittian of Government, drat
a prematurf attempt to.become so, would be worse
than no attempt at all. His Majesty's. Ministers;
therefore, expressed sentiments of deep regret, that
this brave and united people should lose their freed
dom, but could not advise them to attempt to re.
cover their freedom, until it was discovered whethei
the different Powers of Europe would make a mt.
mon CiillsC.with them, which was tried, and tried in
vain, so that the attempt was not made at all, b:.
cause it could not -be made with a prospect' of any
thing but misery to the brave people whom it was-
our wish to make free. But the mission of Mr,
Moore was not wholly unsuccessful, since it prevent.
ed. the ,enemy from harassing them more, . and
which he would have done in consequence of
our interference. With regard, .to information
to Parliament upon this subject upon an
earlier day than it was stated, the answer
was, that when this , took place, Parliament
was not sitting. He said he was not dispOsed to
enter into all the topics which had been brought
forward by the Right Honourable Gentleman. With
regard to Holland, the Right Hon, Gentleman had
stated,' there was an inertness' ih His Majesty's-
Ministers. On the information received from Mr.
Liston, our Ambasador at • the 'Hague, jou uc.
tions were given to my Lord Whitworth to make
a remonstrance to the Government of France, and
the remonstrance was made ; we were .taught to
believe that the Troops' whi,ch were sent to fful.
land would not be made to .stay there, but that they
were destined for Louisiana ; . and the question
was, whether when we found out that they were
not to evacuate Holland, it would have been pro.
dent to risk a War ? His Majesty's Ministers
thought it would not. With roped to the Cape
of Good Hope, Ministers had assented,to the giving
of it up, because they did not believe it was
worth the continuance of the War, and they retained
other places of more value in the opinion of. Mini,
sters, who did not say that the Cape was of no
value, but they
,were 'of opinion it was Oyer-rated
in point of value, nor was the expense of retaining
it a trifle, since daring the, period it was in our
haOds, which was six years, it cost us two
of money. • He did not 'Say it would beattended
by the same expellee in time of Peate, but at all
times the expellee- of retaining it would be very
considerable. Upon thesubjeta of. the Guarantee
of Malta by. the Emperor of Russia, :nal on the
oubjed of the Note which was stated by the Right
Ikon. Gentleman, -he observed, that there was no
engagement between this Country and Russia, as
he had stated, and we had not requited any thing.
that was inaonsistent, with our previous Compact
with that Court. With regard to the genetal.
question of makiog representations and remonstrances
to Fraoce, they tad been made in every particular
case .which required it, but he denied that we were
bound in vindication of our honour to go to' Vat
if-our remonstrance woo .not eff4loal, we might
be justified in point of right in going to War, but
there was the question of expedience us well as Of
right to be considered, and one drat of having de.
keyed going to War was, that of convincing the,.
world that, although we are .not afraid of War,syet
we are not too ready to seek it. -, This principle had
convinced the world of the moderation of our,
temper, and had at the same time united us as ono

_ ..
• . - ... _ . . . ,
man in the cause :-•-thc4c were advantago which.
we should not have had it w.e had goneponcOnto
the cunicst.••4le concluded with uhservings 'that,

having stated to the HUuse the grounds of 1114c:tau.
lion we had observed for the sake of preserving
Ve4ce, and having stated the motives which restrain.

ed His Majesty's 'Ministers from making earlier
communication to the Houw, which while thera3
a. chance of pi-cm:tying l!cgtcc, would only ,havA:
diminished' that chance, pending the Negotiation ;
he ad<ed`every Gentlemao who heard him, to. Jay.
leis hind upon his heart and to soy, it he had known
all (hat appeared nuw, whether he would not, un.

tier the same circumstances,: have ride(' in the same

•
manner .as 114 Majeity '$ A,liniszers .113t1 aged, anti
whether as soon :14. the c4ije4t Peace became quite
imperils, they were not right in breaking off the
Negotiation ?. :rite 1-ionsit tvonia at least see that.

I ad sheivnil disposition to preserve Peitee.
114 I:.`cew mateti4d tjUCUtilent which was not
now,before the House. The Right Hon..Genfle.-
man, said Mr. ADDI:torvN, alledges that we say,

" !ilia is not the time to 1.9 a acciliott tipuri

this nuttier." I-le will Ito; be told Ito by me, .nor

by any of my Colleagues. I have said we should.
IBC ready to meet ibis inquiry, whenever it should he
proposed : it is proposed, and we have met it, ant
now yourdecision upon it. Ifyou say we &servo

censure, however Oat may mortify us, we shall ac..

quieste, but if yotc.tlank we do- not deserve yotte