The Sun.
London, England, 1832-07-07 00:00:00

GRAND REFORM DINNER.

Yesterday a public dinner was given at the Mer-
maid Tavern, Hackney, to celebrate the triumph of
Reform. It was also rendered ancillary to securing
the return of Lord Althorp and Dr. Lushington, or
some Gentleman of equal character, talent, and in-
tegrity, for the Tower Hamlets.

Mr. HUME. M. P. wag in the Chair.

Mr. O'Connell, M. P. Dr. Bowring, Colonel
Jones, and several other distinguished supporters of
Reform sat beside the Chairman. Nearly 250 Gen-
tlemen sat down to a very excellent entertainment.
The CHAIRMAN, in proposing the King's health,
was deeply thankful to Providence for having such
a King as his present Majesty, who exhibited ndt g
false and formal parade of meeting the wishes of hie
people, but was in in heart their friend and truly pa-
rental protector. The conduct of his Majesty was
entitled to the deep and lasting gratitude of the em
pire, when placed in contrast with that of his pre-
decessors—the contrast threw a blaze of glory
round him. The people of England do not kno*
what they owe to his present Majesty; they do not
know the immense, the incalculable difficulties with
which he has been surrounded.—(Cheers.) He
hoped the meeting would give him credit when he
solemnly declared, that few men could surmoun
(and he had no trifling grounds for making the as-
sertion) those difficulties.—(Loud cheering.) There
was a momentary cloud that flitted over the bright-
ness of his popularity; that had passed away, and
the people now only thought of the great good he
had achieved—not of their temporal disappoint-
sante.

The CHAIRMAN, in proposing " The people, the
only source of legitimate power," said, the people
of this country possess talent, capability, industry,
and resources equal, if not sup?rior, to any people
on earth. Now is the time for them to bring into
full and unchecked operation all these noble quali-
ties. They have now acquired real power, and let
them make good use of it. Tee very fate of the
empire depends on the proper exercise of that power.
Let every Englishman invested with the franchise,
feel that this privilege is delegated to him for the
public good—let him reflect, that on the sound and
honest exercise of it rests, in some degree, the pros--
perity or misery of his country—he should be taught.
that his own well-being is involved in his selection.
—(Loud cheering.) The giant people will reap
! ut little advantage from smiting down the Tory
Philistines, if they fall into the snares of their crafty
and treacherous emissaries, and are in the end shorn
of their strength. The man who has not a vote,
can yet give his mite to the cause of his country;
he can remonstrate with, and advise the man who
has one, to the proper exercise of it. All, all now
rests on that exercise.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He
could not suppose that any man would he so base
as to lend himself to any candidate, whose aim
would be the overthrow of that Government to
which the present generation was so deeply in-
.lcbted, and to which remote posterity would look
hack with reverence and wonder.—(Hear.) There
is a danger yet to be feared—the se:luctive enemies
of the people are up and stirring; they will profess
liberal and Reform principles until they have en-
snared the people ; and when they get into Parlia-
ment they will thwart a liberal and honest Govern-
inent at every step, until they either oust it, or
oeutralize its good intentions. There are many
schemes in agitation, and many a bad measure will
be slily proposed in Parliament, to clip the Reform
Bill of its good effects. The people then should be
vgilant, and send to Parliament none but tried
retormers.—(Cheers.) The bloodless victory just
achieved is greater far than that of Waterloo.
Mr. FORSTER proposed " The health of Earl Grey
itid his Majesty's Ministers" in a long and animated
speech.
Me. O'CONNELL rose to propose the following
roast, amidst continued cheering :—" May the same
•neAsure of justice be dealt out to Ireland and Scot-
land as has been dealt to England." He trusted
that the generous sympathies of the English people
would be enlisted in behalf of Ireland, which so
lisinterestedly stood forward for English liberty in the
great struggle now happily brought to a close. Gene-
:osity demands the co-operation of England ; and in
England generosity has always been triumphant.
Reform in England would yet be the salvation of
Europe. The voice of the British nation would, in
a peal of thunder, reach the despot of Siberia, and
•nake him start in terror on his throne.—(Cheers.)
lie and Mr. Hume were assailed and menaced in
the House of Commons for having designated him
as he deserved. What epithet could indignation, or
hatred, reerdi
o,r omri t
isecsoor
fn
t„ fus
.mr nai
ns sufficiently(Gr e:i
t ch
eeexr
sp)r—e s expressive t ofh
old age, and innocence fell equally before his ruth-
:ess barbarity; lie has already transported to the
wilds of Siberia, or ordered to be butchered in
savage revenge, tO,OOO children, thus hellishly blast-
ing in the bud the future hopes of Poland, and
whetting his brutal vengeance by the blood of her
gallant Nobles. Out of the group of hideous
images that this man's atrocities called up to the
mind, he would take one : the wife of General Roen-
stein had two children, her only hope and fortune;
their father had nothing to leave them but the inheri-
tance of his patriotism, his bravery, and virtue; they
were ordered away to the wilderness; she memorialed
the Emperor that they should not be torn from lice
—her prayer was rejected ; she then implored in
the name of human nature, and the God qf Mercy,
that one at least, the youngest, would be left to her—
she iva, again repulsed with a savage threat; the
:miserable mother, thus bereft of all earthly comfort,
kissed her child, and in a delirium ef despair grasped
a dagger and plunged it into its heart.—[lt would
impossible to describe the irengled sensation of
aorror and rage this produced in the meeting.]
After a long and powerful address, the Hon.
'.limber sat down amidst loud cheering.
Colonel JONES, the Rev. Mr. Fox, and sevetal
'cher gentlemen delivered some excellent speeches,
it'd the meeting broke up in great harmony and
-.;ood feeling.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF LORDS, JULY 6

The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition
from the town and inhabitants of Worcester aglinst the
Boundaries Bill.

Lord DUNDAS presented a petition from the inhabi-
, tante of Shetland, to the same effect.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a petition from the
inhabitants of Liverpool, in favour of the London and Bir-
mingham Railway Bill.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE moved the third reading of the
Zemindar of Nozeed

The LORD CHANCELLOR, after takleg an elaborat.
view of the whole of the vase, opposed the Rill.
CONFERENCE WITH THE COMMONS.

At the conclusion of the Lord ChanceHot's speech, the
Deputy-Usher of the Black Rod announced a message from
the Commons.

On the usual motion, " That the Mescengirs be called
in," being made and agreed to, Mr. W. WYNN, and several
other Members, appeared at the bar.
Mr. WYNN stated that he and the other gentlemen con-
stituting the deputation were directed by the Hence of
Commons to request a conference with their Lordship% in
the Painted Chambtr, on the subject of certain alterations
made by their Lordships in the Bill for abolishing the pu-
nishment of death in certain cased.

The conference was granted, and on the mall of Eat]
GREY the following Peers were nominated to manage it ma
the part of their Lordships : —The Lord President (Mar-
quess of Lansdowne), the Duke of Ricl,mond, the Earl of
Shaftesbury, the Earl of Rosslyn, Lord Kenyon, the
Bishop of Herefrrd, and the Earl of Rosebery.
During their Lordships' absence at the conference the
House was adjourned.

On their return, the Marquis of LANSDOWNE stated
that the managers appointed by their Lordships had met
the managers who appeared on the part of the House of
Commons in the Painted Chamber. The Commons stated,
by their managers, that they disagreed from the amend-
ments made by their Lordships in a Bill entitled " A Bill
for the Abolition of the Punishment of Death in certain
cases," for the following reasons,—because they thought
the amendments to be of so much importance as to demand
a separate Bill, and because they required more detailed
consideration than had been given to them.
On the motion rf the Marquis of LA NSDOWNE, the
communication from !he Commons was ordered to be taken
into consideration on Monday next.
The discussion was then resumed on the
ZEMINDAR OF NOZEED BILL.
Lord WYNFORD supported the Bill.

Lord ELLENBOROCGH was prepared to negative it
on the broad ground of justice ; because, in his opinion,
the petitioner was not borne out in his claim by any plea
of law or equity.

Lord WfIAiINCLIFFE supported the third reading o
the Bill.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH then moved, as an amend-
ment, that the Bill be read a third time that day six
months. •

On this the House eivided,
Content l4
Not content
Majority against the amendment — 9
On our re-admissb,n below the bar, we found

The LORD CHANCELLOR addressing the House on
the original motion, and entreating their Lordship not to
come to an immediate decision on a matter of such high
importince, and involving, as it would, such serious con-
sequences. After the decision to which the House had
just conic to, be would not again divide it on the question,
that the Bill be then read a third time, but he again
begged to express his earnest hope that they would post-
pone the third reading to a future day.
Lord KENYON said, that the decision to which the
House bad urine, was, no cli Wit, very different from that
which the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack had
expected. He put it to him whether, if the result had
been different, he would have asked them to take the course
he now advised ?

Lord ELLENBOROUGH admitted, that what was
asked by the Noble and Learned L, rd on the Woolsack
was unusual, but he must say that so were the circum-
stances under which he asked it. For his own part, he
must say, that in his opinion, the individual making this
claim had not a shadow of justice or equity to support it.
He, for one, would be extremely unwilling to take the
responsibility of the Government of India, if clairus,al4
as these were admitted.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE confessed that there did not
appear to him any reasonab'e ground urged for the further
delay of this question. He felt fully justified in moving,
that the Bill he now a read a third time.
The LORD CHANCELLOR bad no right in a vise
of this kind to ask their Lordships to receive his opinion,
as he should in a case where he was giving it judicially.
He would, however, ask their Lordships to postpone the
third ~.<1:os on the ground that many Noble Lords went
away before the division, not expecting that any would
take place. On the Bill itself he had no personal feelings
of any kind. He had acted in the discharge of what he
considered his public duty. He had never canvassed in
any way, or asked a single individual for a vote on it.
He would not say that there had been any canvassing on
the other side, but he felt that in all cases of individual
claims, it was difficult to prevent it. The thing had been
carried so far in the other, and to some extent in this
House of Parliament, as to make canvassing not without a
precedent, but he hoped it would not be without a remedy.
He did not, however, ask for any delay on that ground.
He asked it on those he had already stated, for the sake
of the character of their Lordships' proceedings, and on the
ground of the absence of many Noble Lords who would'
be disposed to take a part in the debate.
Lord NAPIER said, that when the House was about to
divide, several Lords had left because they were unwilling
to vote against the Bill. This was a question between a'
powerful body, the East India Company, and a private in-
dividual, and if the Bill were now delayed t wait for a
stronger opposition to it, it might be well said that the
weaker was allowed to go to the wall.
Lord GODERICH opposed the Bill.
The Earl of HAREWOOD voted for the Bill, from a
firm conviction that the individual had fully established
the justice of his claim. If the delay now sought for was
given, it could only he to defeat the Bill.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE denied any canvassing for the
Bill. He would would now move that it be read a third
time, and that it do pass.

Lord ELLENBO.ROUGH said that the opposition of
the East India Company was given to the Bill officially,
just as the Government might feel itself disposed to oppose
any claim on the public purse, for which no valid grounds
had been shown.
Lord HOLLAND moved that the debate be adjourned.
The House then divided—
Content
Not content 24
Majority against the adjournment - 9
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
CONTEMPTS IN ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS
BILL.

On our return to the Bar, we found
The Marquess of WESTMEATH addressing their Lord-
ships, on the order of the day for the second reading of
this Bill, and requesting its postponement on the ground of
the absence of the Noble and Learned Earl (Eldon).
The LORD CHANCELLOR saw the reason why their
Lordships should postpone the second reading. It could
not be the absence of the Noble and Learned Earl, who,
if he (the Lord Chancellor) were not very much mistaken,
was in favour of the Bill. The only object that could be
gained by the present postponement would he delay, and of
that there had been more than enough already. This Bid
had been passed through their Lordship,' House last Ses-
sion, and was sent down to the Commons, where it was
stopped only by the prorogatio❑ of Parliament. He did
hope that no further impediment might now be opposed
to its progress, It was a Bill which had for its object to
do away with that privilege by which about 1,100 per-
sons, Members of both Houses of Parliament, might set
the authority of Ecclesiastical Courts at defiance ; so far
at least as obedience to their monitions or citation.,
was concerned. Thus, for instance, suppose a man
died, leaving by will a charge of 10,0001. on hi,
estate, in favour of his second son—the will was
in the pocket of the eldest son, who might not like
to produce such an evidence of a charge on his
estate, but who, if he were a Member of Parlia-
ment, might laugh at any monition or citation to
produce it. There were many other cases in which a
privileged person might with impunity set the authority of
the ecclesiastical courts at defiance, and defeat for a time
the ends of justice; but that which he had supposed, and
which might happen, was enough to show the necessity
of this Bill. There were other cases arising in questions
of divorce and alimony which would equally prove it,
necessity. Under these circumstances their Lordships
would admit that, tactless some strong ground were made
out, (which he could nut expect, and for the simple rea*on
that he did not believe it possible to make such a case) to
show why the Bill should not pass, no further delay ought
to take place to prevent the second reading of the Bill,
which he now moved.

The Marquis of WESTAIEATH—The Noble and
Learned Lord had said that this Bill was dropped in thr
House of Commons on account of the prorogation. He,
(the 148,43iiPOC.W.dstrneath) denied that fact, and hi,
assertion-watiPrgood as that of the Noble and Learned
Lerch The Bill vtss-epused in the House of Common•
and was droppaleg!ttrae\ii.,\ was apprehended that the

1

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transactions connected with the measure would be exposed•
He wished to know why the Noble Lord did not enti•i
into an explanation similar to that which the Bill th.it
iffected Members of Parl'ament was accompanied.
The LORD CHANCELLOR had done so.

The Marquis of WESTMEATH did not recol'ect
and his memory was usually tolerably accurate. The Bill
was brought into Parliament for the purpose of oppressine
him individually. The report of the Ecclesiastical Cern
missioners had recommended certain improvements in the
practice in the Civi Law Courts, and particularly that the
xamination of witnesses should he conducted publicly,
instead of, as at present, in a private room. It would
have been batter if the Noble and Learned Lord ha.l
brought in a bill which would have comprised all these
points, instead of a partial measure, directed to only an
isolated part of the subject. He would now proceed to
state the grounds upon which he conceived that guoad
himself this bill was an injury. In April last he had oc-
casion to see the Noble Lord, who then contemplated the
introduction of some such measure as that before the
House- At that time he happened to be in contempt to the
Ecclesiastical Courts on account of a small sum of 2001.
He had intended to avail himself of his privilege of
Parliament, on account of the unhappy affairs in which
he was involved. At the interview to which he had re-
ferred, the Noble and Learned Lord told him that he had
better comply with the order of the Celia, otherwise he
would he shot ; and he explained that a Bill to abridge the
personal liberty of Members of Parliament would be in-
troduced, not by himself, but some other Noble Lord.
The Noble and Learned Lord suggested that the question
should be submitted to arbitration. He told the Noble
and Learned Lord that when the case was heard befote
their Lordships he had consented to an arbitration, and it
was not his fault, but owing to the persevering determina-
tion of the other party, that it had not been carried into
eft; cr. He d:d not see the Noble and Learned Lord again
"till the 29th of August last year, when Lord Lyndhurst
and the Earl of Eldon delivered judgment in the case, and
in the interim he had not the honour of hearing from the
Noble and Learned Lord. Subsequently to that period
the Noble and Learned Lord sent him a communication, in
which he expressed a hope that he (the Marquess of West-
meath) would comply with the decree of the Court, in
order to prevent the necessity of having a retrospective
clause inserted in the Bill.

The LORD CHANCELLOR—I did no such thing.
The Marquess of WESTMEATH would real a pas-
sage from the Noble and Learned Lord's letter. Tt e Noble
and Learned Lord said, " I wish you would settle the
matter in dispute, in order to prevent it from being men-
tioned in debate. I must give your case as a ground for
the measure, therefore I wish you to comply with the
sentence. It cannot be endured that any one should set
the power of the law at defiance. I know you will not
think of doing so, and therefore no retrospective clause
will be wanted." The Noble and Learned Lord was well
acquainted with his case. He knew that some years ago
it was the subject of arbitration before Mr. Phillips, now
Under-Secretary sf State, nominated by him and a person
of eminence at the bar, on which occasion the evidence of
his witnesses was so clear that the arbiters desired the op-
p'sing party to withdraw. The circumstances of the case
must be fresh in the Noble and Learned Lord's recollec-
tion, and he was well aware that he had done every thing
iu his power to prevent the transaction from being dragged
before the public. He bad spoken of only one part of
the subject, but he could prove at the bar that the pre-
sent Bill was actually drawn up by the solicitor of the
party who is to be relieved by its passiOg. In one of the
first communications with the Noble and Learned Lord,
he (the Lord Chancellor) stated that the measure must
proceed with breathless haste. He should like to know
why, after that, the Ball was allowed to stand over for
a fortnight before it was printed. He should very much
wish to see tl e draught of the Bill originally brought into
the House. Was ever such a thing heard of as a solicitor
bringing in an Act of Parliament in order to obtain money
for himself? He (the Marquis of Westmeath) was
placed in a most cruel situation by the proceedings in the
Civil Courts. The most abominable charges had been
made against him, which could not be examined into
without sending a commission into North Wales. He
brought over a ship-load of witnesses, and maintained
them at an enormous expense; and, upon investigation,
he was acquitted, and his character cleared, but not a
single sixpence of the vast sums which he had expended
in costs would ever be repaid to him. Was this just ?
The Noble and Learned Lord might treat these matters
with scorn—he treated men as mere units—as things
here to-day and gone to-morrow—and, perhaps, he
thought that a defenceless man could be more easily trod-
den under foot. He (the Marquess of Westmeath), how-
ever, would not shrink from the Noble Lord's attack
He was a suffering individual : be bad lost nearly a third
of his income in consequence of the state of the country,
produced by the policy pursued by the Administration.
If the Noble and Learned Lord possessed an atom of
mercy, be would not have brought in this Bill against him.
He had stated his case against the Noble and Learned
Lord ; let him defend himself, and let him pass the Bill as
be could.

The LORD CHANCELLOR expressed his surprise,
that the Noble Marquess should assert that a Bill was to
he brought into Parliament directed against himself indi-
vidually, which affected him no more than any other in-
dividual who was similarly circumstanced. The Noble
Marquess had founded his assertion on a quibbling con-
struction of a private letter.
The Marquess of WESTMEATH said the letter was
not marked " private."
The LORD CHANCELLOR bad no objection to have
every letter which he had ever written to the Noble Mar-
quess, or any other person, lead; but he had yet to learn
that because a letter was not marked " private," the per-
son to whom it was addressed was at liberty to read it
publicly. It was undoub•edly true it was the Noble Mar-
quess's case which first led to the discovery of the flaw in
Lord Stowell's Act, which the present Bill was intended
to remedy. He certainlygave the most considerate advice
which one man ever gave to another, when lie told the
Noble Marquess to avoid bringing the circumstances of his
case into public discussion in Parliament. The Noble
Marquess talked of the judgments pronounced in his fa-
vour: The judgment of the Court of Chancery was cer-
tainly in his favour, but those of Doctors' Commons and
the High Court of Delegates were against him. The
Noble Marquess complained that he had never reco-
sered his costs. That was because the suit was one
between husband and wife—the latter, having no funds,
could not pay costs. The Noble Marquess was wrong
in supposing the Bill was drawn up by the solicitor
opposed to him. It was framed by persons possessing
greater legal knowledge than it was probable any solicitor
could attain to. It was possible, however, that a parti-
cular part might have been suggested by the individual in
question, because he possessed experience on the subject.
The Noble Marquis was equally wrong in supposing that
the Bill bad a retrospective effect. All that the Bill did
was to declare, that if any future contempt should arise out
of proceedings which had occurred in the Ecclesiastical
Court within the last six years, the person in contempt
should not be protected by privilege of Parliament from
having his goods sequestered. The Noble Marquis was
equally in error in supposing that his was a singular case.
On the contrary, the most frightful injustice had been
done, and was still doing, in consequence of persons avail-
ing themselves of the privilege of Parliament to set the
process of the Ecclesiastical Court at defiance.
Lord HOLLAND had read the Bill, and was of opinion
that it would not have a retrospective operation.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH again repeated his ob-
jections to the measure, and
The LORD CHANCELLOR once more replied to
them, and then stated that it was his intention, early in
the next session, to introduce Bills to carry into effect the
other objects recommended by the ecclesiastical commission
—namely, the assimilating the framing of wills with re-
spect to real and personal property, and altering and
amending the mode of trying the validity of wills by apply-
ing to this branch of ecclesiastical jurisdiction the trial by
jury.
•The Bill was then read a second time.
ANATOMY BILL.

On the motion of Lord 11111.ro, this bill was committed,
and the report was ordered to be received on Tuesday.

Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, JuLr 6.

The Hon. W. PONSONBY took the oaths and his seat
for Knaresborough, in the room of Sir James IFacintosh.
Mr. Robertson, of the office of Woods and Forests, ap-
peared at the Bar with the Ninth Annual Report of the
Holyhead Roads.
Mr. BEAUMONT rose to present a petition from the
Political Union of North Shields, signed by the Chairman,
but was interrupted by the Speaker, who said, as it was
signed by only one individual, and purported to come from
a body, it could not be received. No one person cool i
speak for a body unless it was in the Parliamentary way,
,:nd bad a common seal attached to it.

Mr. BEAUMONT then presented a petition from cer-
tain Peers and Commoners, the proprietors and lessees of
coal mines on the Tyne and Wear, praying the House to
appoint a Committee to inquire into the causes of the vio-
lence committed by the colliers.
Tee petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. WILKS presented a petition from the parish of-
fieeri of Tottenham High Cross, in the county of Middle-
sex, against the Bill for amending the laws regarding

poor persons born in Scotland, Ireland, and the Isle et
Alan. He implored the Hon. Member for Nottingham
shire, who brought in the Bill, not to pass it withou
making some very material alterations in it.
Lord MORPETH bad received a communication iron
the Hon. Member fur Nottinghamshire, to the effect tha,
he would not press his Bill during the present session, no,
indeed at all, without introducing a clause, limiting
liability of parishes to the providing Irish poor with relief,
as casual paupers. That would obviate a very imporait
objection to the Bill.
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. WILKS presented a petition from Parsonstown,
the King's County, praying for the eb ilition of the punish-
ment of death in all cases of forgery. The petition wits
signed by the Lord Lieutenant of the County, 13:sides
several of the magistracy and clergy.
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. WILKS then presented a petition from a Benefi•
Society, held at the White Hart Inn, in the county, for an
alteration in the Friendly Society Laws, and complaining
of the trouble and expense attending the re-enrolment
of their regulations at the quarter sessions.
Mr. HUME was of opinion that it was impolitic to
legislate upon such a subject. He had letters every day
stating that Friendly Societies were being broken up in
consequence of the state of the existing law. He thought
those societies should be allowed to manage their own
funds without any legislative interference, as they were
the best judges of their own interests.
Mr. BRISCOE thought there was much misapprehen-
sion on this subject. It was generally believed that a
society must employ an attorney and counsel at the
quarter sessions in order to get the rules enroled, and cer-
tainly in such cases the lawyer's bill would amount to
a serious sum, but the fact was that the Societies might
enrol their rules themselves by applying to the Sessions, at
an expense of only 25.. He hoped that this fact would be
sent forth by those gentlemen to whom the public were so
much indebted, he meant the public press.
After a few words from Mr. GISBORNE, the petition
was ordered to lie printed.
Mr. VERNON presented a petition from Derby in favour
of an increased allowance to Coroners.

Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought the case of Coroners
was well deserving of attention, and th.t an extension
might fairly be made of their allowances for travelling.
Mr, HUME did not see any necessity for the increase
of the salaries of Coroners, when individuals would come
forward and expend thousands, for the purpose of obtain.
ing office, regardless of its emoluments.
Mr. GISBORNE considered it perfectly clear that C•s-
roners received more for the performance of their duty
than their mere salaries. If be thought that would be
put an end to by an increase of their salary, he should be
one of the first to give his sinction to such a measure.

Mr. HUNT thought if Coroners did their duty they
were not overpaid. He hoped a Bill would be introduced
to compel them to perform it.
Mr. STRICKLAND hoped the Bill which had been
introduced would materially decrease the expense attendant
upon the election of coroners.

The petition was then ordered to be printed.
Mr. D. BROWNE presented a petition from a parish
in Mayo, praying for the total abolition of tithes. The
Hon. IWett,ber could not concur with the prayer of the pe-
tition, believing that if tithes Here abolished they would
sink into the pockets of the landlords. He thought
tithes ought not to be abolished without compensation.

After a few words from Mr. RUTHVEN and Mr. H.
GRATTAN, the petition was ordered to he printed.
Mr. NV. ELLIS presented a petition from Leicester, in
favour of a full measure of Re`orm for Ireland.

Mr. H. ROSSpresented a petition from Banff, in favour
of Burgh Reform in Scotland. He was very glad to
see the Honourable Member for Devonshire (Lord John
Russell) in h:s place. Hi• had taken such a prominent
part in the cause of Parliamentary Reform, that he (Mr.
Ross) had hopes he would now turn his attention to the
subject of this petition, which was scarcely less necessary.
Mr. DUNDAS hoped that the Municipal Government
of Scotland would not be interfered with unless a full in-
quiry was instituted into the whole of the Corporations of
England and Ireland.
Mr. FERGUSON considered that it would be a matter
of course that the Scotch burgh laws would be altered
when the Reform Bill passed.

Mr. HUME was astonished to heir the remarks of the
Hon. Member for Edinburgh. The Scotch borough sys-
tem of government already stood condemned by the report
of a Select Cominitt,e of that House.

After a few words from Mr. Paget, Mr. C. Pelham,
Mr. A. Johnson, and Sir C. Forbes, the petition was
ordered to he printed.
Mr. S. RICE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to add
certain names to the list of Land Tax Commissioners.—
Read a first time, and ordered to be printed.
On the Order of the Day for the Punishment of Death
Abolition Bill being read,
Sir J. HOBHOUSE, in answer to a question from Mr.
Hunt, said, that an application having been made to him
by the relatives of Somerville for his discharge, he had
some communication with the Commander-in-Chief. The
answer to him was, that it was most probable his dis-
charge would be made out in a few days.
The Order of the Day for taking into consideration the
Lords' Amendments to the Abolition of Death Bill, was
then read, on the motion of Mr. EwAwr.
Mr. SHAW understood that the discussion on these
amendments was put off last night, on the understanding
that they would be negatived to-day without a division,
and a conference had on the subject with the Lords.
The SPEAKER said, be perhaps was the best able to
explain how the case stood. He did not understand that
the consideration of the amendments was put off at all on
the understanding mentioned by the lion. Member ; but
that the amendments being brought under the considera.
tion of the House at a late hour, it was thought better
that they should be discussed at an earlier hour, and in a
fuller House.

• After a few words from Mr. IlumE, Mr. W. WYNN,
and Mr. STEPHENSON,

Lord ALTHORP said that if he thought a conference
with the Lords would be the means of losing the Bill, he
would agree with the amendments, though he thought
them objectionable.
The amendments of the Lords to clauses A, B, and C,
were then read seriatim. .

Sir R. PEEL did not feel opposed to the principle of
the amendments, but they were worded very vaguely, and
would probebly defeat their object. He suggested the pro-
priety of dissenting altogether from them, and at some
future time, and at a more fitting opportunity, a new Bill
could be introduced, for the purpose of more effectually
carrying the proposed amendments into operation.
Mr. ENVART, under the circumstances, would not
press the Lords' amendments on the House.

The amendments were then severally put and nega-
tived.

A Committee was then appointed to draw up the rea-
sons to be offered in a conference with the Lords for dis-
agreeing with the amendments. The Committee with-
drew for that purpose.
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.

A message from the Lords announced that their Lord-
ships had agreed to several Bills, among which were the
Gloucester Canal Bill, and the General Cemetery Bill.
Mr. GOULBURN wished to ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite, whether, on the presentation of
the Rev. Mr. Plunkett, which bad lately taken place,
to the Deanery of Down, the recommendations of the Ec-
clesiastical Commissioners had beer acted on. The Deanery
consisted of six separate Rectories—one of the value
of 12,0001., and the others varying from 1501. to 500/.
per annum. As the population of Protestants was consider-
able, it was recommended that some arrangement should be
made by forming them into six separate benefices. On a
former occasion he had asked this question, but the
Lord Chancellor of Ireland not being then in this country,
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) hid not been
able to acquire the means of correctly ascertaining the
facts. He hoped, however, that the arrival of the Noble
Lord in this country had afforded the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman an opportunity of consulting him, and that a satis-
factory answer could now be given.
Mr. STANLEY entirely agreed with the general prin-
ciple of the recommendation ; but from the extremely v,,lu-
minous documents connected with this case, his Ma-
jesty's Government had not been able to advert to
it at the time of the presentation. The present
De in of Down had given up a living of considerably
greater value, but he was autborizid to state, although it
might occasion a still further surrender of income, that
the present incumbent would have no objec,ion that the
Legislature should carry into effect the step proposed by
the Commissioners ; and Government, he thought, were
bound to comply with their recommendation.
Alderman WOOD wished to know whether the Court
of Inquiry had been instituted in relation to the Court-
martial on the private Somerville.

Lord ALTHORP stated, in answer, that the Com-
mander-in- Chir-f was about to institute a Court of Inquiry
into the circumstances of that court-martial, and he cer)d
assure the Hon. Member that that court would be so con-
stituted, and its proceedings so conducted, at to give srttis•
faction to the
public.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUME withdrew the notice which he bad giver,
of a motion which he had intended to have brought for
ward on Tuesday next.
Sir J. HOBHOUSE moved that the petition wi icl:
had been presentod in relation to the inquiry into the

ease of Somerville be printed. It was of great importance
that the Curt of Inquiry should be in possession of that
document.

Mr. ROBINSON wished to ask the Noble Lord op
posite, at whose expense, and at whose orders that splendid
toy, the frigate to the King of Prussia,- had been ordered.
Lord ALTHORP could only say that no order for at,)
thing of the kind had been given by the Treasury.
Sir B. MARTIN said that there had been a mistake on
this subject, which it would be right to explain, particu-
larly as regarded the amount of the expense incurred.
fife papers had stated that this little frigate had c st
720,0001., whereas be apprehended that the expense was,
at the outside, not more than 6001. It bad been bttilt at
the desire of the King, expressed to the First Lord of the
Admiralty.
Mr. DIXON wished to know in what state the island
of St. Lucie had been placed by tie order in council ? It
appeared that a state of the greatest commercial distress
prevailed in that island.

Lord HOWICK said there bad been no accounts
of a recent date received from St. Lucie, hut when the
last came away the factories were not in operation.
Lord ALTHORP then moved the order of the day for
the House to resolve into a Committee of Supply.
CCNBIITTEE OF SUPPLY.
The House then resolved into a Committee of Supply.
SUPPLY OF WATER TO THE METROPOLIS
Lord ALTHORP in moving that 1,000/. should
be granted to his Majesty for civil contingencies,
stated that complaints having been made of the
supply of water to the Metropolis, the late Govern-
ment had instituted inquiries into the subject through a
Committee, of which Sir Francis Burdett was the Chair-
man, and it was the opinion of that Committee that a
survey should be made for the purpose of ascertaining
the best means of giving an efficient supply. The late Go-
vernment, however, thought that the expense of that
survey was too great, and it wa, not proceeded with; soon
after the present Government bad come into office, ap-
plications were made for the purpose of having the survey
proceeded with. Ministers thinking it a matter highly
deserving of consideration, had consulted with Mr. Tel-
ford, who had estimated the expense of the survey at
3,000/., but not to exceed 5,000/. He should therefore
move that a sum not exceeding 1,0001. should be granted
to his Majesty, in order to defray part of that expense.
Sir ROBERT PEEL deprecated the payment by the
public for a survey of this kind, thinking that a supply of
water for the metropolis was likely to be much better
managed when it was in the hands of individuals, where
some competition would take place. Another objection
which he had to the vote was, that as soon as the Go-
vernment took up the subject, the exertions of the Water
Companies would cease, so that instead of conferring a
benefit, it would be creating an evil. The Hon. Baronet
had made this offer, and the Government having accepted
it and acted on it, he thought there was no course to pur-
sue but to insist on the fulfilment of his bargain.
PUNISHMENT OF DEATH BILL.
Mr. C. WYNN stated that their Lordships had agreed
to a conference respecting the amendments of this Bill,
and a Committee was despatched accordingly. On their
return Mr. C. Wynn stated that they had met a deputation
of their Lordships in the Painted Chamber, and that their
Lordships had consented to take into consideration these
amendments on Monday next.
WATER FOR THE METROPOLIS.
The Committee resumed.

Sir F. BURDETT thought the Water Companies ought
to pay the expense of the survey ; and he considered that
the House should have complied with the recommendation
of the Chairman of their own Committee, by whom the
the propriety of the survey was suggested. The object
proposed—namely, that of supplying the metropolis with
pure water—was of the greatest import ince ; and we
understood the Hon. Bironet to intimate, that rather than
see the object frustrated, be would eventually consent to
pay the expense of the survey himself.
Mr. ROBINSON thought so much money should not
be voted for the completion of a survey, from which it was
doubt,ul if any practical benefit would result.
Mr. S. RICE defended the vote. The former Govern-
matt had given information to private trustees as to the
best means of employing their capital in the making of
roads through the north-west of England, and through
South Wales ; and though the money thus expended had,
in the first instance, benefited private individuals, it had
ultimately proved a great public advantage. The Right
Hod. Gentleman was wrong, therefore, in supposing that
there was no precedent for this sort of vote. But the pre-
cedent went further ; fur in the case of Dublin,to which
the Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded, the Government
had not only given the information, but had gone far to
supplying the water itself to Dublin. He thought it would
he improper to cast the expense of this upon the lion.
Baronet, and he objected to the principle of casting a
public duty upon a private individual.
Mr. WARBURTON objected to the inquiry being fur-
ther pursued at the public expense—at least if it was to
lie conducted in the way in which it had hitherto been.
Mr. GOULBURN objected to the proposed survey, for
he did not believe that any ulterior result could be obtained
from it beneficial to the public, for the Companies would
not avail themselves of the suggestions that the report
might furnish.

Mr. V. SMITH thought that the money would be well
expended in carrying into effect an object which Commit-
tees and Commissioners had equally recommended.
Mr. BRISCOE should vote for the motion, as he
thought the inquiry might be productive of great public
benefit. He believed that the Water Companies would
take no steps to improve the supply of water if they did
riot see the Government moving in the matter. He gave
his sincere testimony of respect to the Hon. Baronet, the
Member for Westminster, for his liberal offer, but thought
that the House ought not to take advantage of the Hon.
Baronet's generosity.
Sir R. PEEL—When he had, during the time he was
in office, been applied to for an order directing Mr. Telford
to go on with the examination which was recommended by
a Committee, he had declined to grant the order solely
because it was irregular in any officer of the Government
to incur any such expense upon the mere recommendation
of Committee. He was not entitled to do so, till the
recommendation had received the sanction of that House.

L,,rd ALTHORP certainly thought it desirable that
something should be done, and unless the Government
took up the matter, he feared that the survey would not
be made. It was asked—What good would arise from the
survey ? Why, this good—that the public would know
that means did exist for furnishing them with better water
than they were supplied with at present. If that infor-
mation was given, he was sure that there would he found
plenty of individuals who,—if not for any other cause
at least for their own benefit, would tike advantage of it.
Sir R. PEEL, after what had passed, saw clearly in what
way the vote would be carried, and he should not waste
the time of the Committee by a division. He should only
say now, that it would be a great advantage if Mr.Telford
was called on to say in what state the survey was at pre-
sent, and what was the prospect of its being finished.

. .
Lord ALTHORP stated that the survey was in a very
advanced state, and had been suspended only from what had
taken place in the Committee on the former occasion.
Mr. HUNT was astonished at the disposition shown to
resist the trifling expense for the improvement of the
Thames water, when millions and millions had been so
freely voted away for other purposes not half so good.
There was no doubt the Thames water was excellent, but
then a great many things got into it that were very had, and,
in his opinion, the money required would be well expended
in trying to ascertain how that could be avoided. This was
an expenditure for the good of the poor, and he should
support it. He should now say a word as to the Hon.
Baronet, the Member for Westminster. When he (Mr.
Hunt) was in Ilchester Gaol, which be was at the time
that this discussion first began, he thought that the Hon.
Baronet's interference in the matter was very well, that it
was doing something for his constituents in return for
their electing him free of expense—that, in short, it was
a good electioneering scheme ; but since then be had in-
vestigated the matter out of doors, and the result was that
he thought the whole of the Hon. Baronet's conduct in the
affair was such as to reflect the highest honour upon him.
—(Hear, hear.) He hoped the Government would go on,
and complete the inquiry as to improving the water.
Mr. Alderman WOOD should support the motion.
The discussion on this subject had already occasioned a
great improvement in the water furnished to the metropolis.
The vote was agreed to.

The sum of 202,4821. 10.. 10d., was then voted fur
the charge of the Disembodied Militia of the United Kin:-
dm, from January, 1832, to March, 1833.
The House resumed, the resolutions were reported, and
;Iv report was ordered to be received on Monday next.
On the motion of Mr. S. RICE, it waR agreed that the
House, at its rising, do adjourn to Monday.
Mr. STANLEY presented a petition from the inha-
bitants of Tulin, praying that they might be allowed re-
presentatives.
REFORM BILL (IRELAND).
Mr. D. BROWNE (after an explanation with the
Speaker) would move in the Committee the amendment,
for which it had been his intention to move an instruction
to the Committee.
The House then went into the Committee.
verbal
eatimlit readingo,etndn amendments.
On th
hianednlsl.
ba lthcelalu2seths
clause,
Mr. to, with torn •
Mr. STANLEY desired to propose an amendment, by

which a great inconvenience would be removed in the
fisting mode of registration. In every county a la ge
number of the electors were compelled to travel to a g rya
distance to give twenty-one days' notice to the Clerk ir,
the Peace before they could register their qualification,.
Now he proposed that the notice should be served up I
the high constable of the barony in which the elector r.
aided, and that the constable should be bound to transo.i
the notice to the Cletk of the Peace.—(Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the amendment was higt.l)
satisfactory, and would effect a great improvement in the•
registration.--(Hear.)
After a few words from Mr. CRAMPTON and 11r. WAL-
LACE, the clause was agreed to.
The 13'h clause, after some vet hal amendments, w.s
also ;7,, eed to.
On Clause 14, Nlr. WALLACE moved an amendment,
the object of which was to prevent the interference in the
business of registration of any persons except those claim-
ing to be electors, or their attorneys.
Mr. O'CONNELL supported the amendment.
Mr. S. RICE said, it would have the effect of repro-
ducing the evil which it was intended to prevent.
Mr. CRANIPTON observed, that the amendment
would not limit the interference with registration, whirl;
might pr..ceed just as extensively under the amendment
as under the original clause.
After some further conversation, Mr. O'CONNELL
on the following day should transmit to the Learned
Solicitor-General for Ireland ti:e words which his Hon.
and Learned Friend (Mr. Wallace) had used, and he pro-
posed to introduce ; and if they were approved of by the
promoters of the Bill, they might be inserted on the bring-
ing up of the report.
Clauses 15, 16, and 17, were then agreed to.
On Clause IS, Mr. O'CONNELL objected to greater
facilities being enjoyed by 40s. freeholders in towns that
were not open to freeholders in counties.
This was concurred in by Mr. WALLACE and others ;
and after a few words from Lord ALTHORP and Mr.
STANLEY', it was agreed that words should be introduced
to effect the object which the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man had in view.

Mr. D. BROWNE begged to relate an instance of the
mode in which the registry of the 40s. freeholders was
occasionally conducted in Ireland. Seven hundred of
them were, in a town in Mayo, registered by two magis-
trates in one day. But how was this? They were
brought up in batches of 10, and the clerk wiped the
book in one lull swoop agminst the lips of all.—(Hear, and
laughter.)

Clauses 19, 20, 21, and 22, were agreed to without any
remark.

The 23d Clause, with a verbal amendment, was then
agreed to.
Clauses 24, 25, 26, and 27, were agreed to without
amendments.

Clause 28 was agreed to after some verb4l amendments.
Clause 29 was agreed to without amendment.
On the motion that Clause 30 be agreed to,

Mr. O'CONNELL said, that care should be taken that
no one should be able to vote on the production of a Cer-
tificate of Registry that had been granted to another man.
He recollected more than one instance in which this had
been attempted. On one occasion in particular, when he
was acting as assessor, a man came up with a certificate
granted to a person named John Moran. The certificae
was signed with a cross for John Moran; but it was,sus-
pected that the certificate had not keen originally granted
to the person who then bore it, and he was informed that
the man who presented it was not an illiterate man. In
order to determine that point, be said to the man, " John
Moran write your name." The man took up a pen and
wrote " Thomas O'Brien."---(A loud laugh.) To prevent
this sort of fraud, he recotnniended the annual publication
of the list of voters as in England.
Lord ALTHORP saw no great objection to this annual
publication of the list ; but he wished the Irish Members
to wait, in order to see how that plan worked in England
before it was introduced into Ireland. He believed it was
a good plan, but he wished it to be tried here first.
After some discusiion the clause was agreed to, as was
clause 30.

In moving clause 31 Mr. STANLEY could have de-
sired to dispense with the qualification oath but that there
were certain jealousies to be consulted, and the oath would
not substantially be a grievance.
Several Members on both sides expressed their desire to
have the oath dispensed with, and Mr. STANLEY said it
should be considered before the bringing up of the report.
The clauses up to 41 were agreed to without observation.
Upon clause 42 there was a conversation as to fixing
candidates more strictly with the liability to the expense
of hustings and taking the poll, but the clause was passed
as it stood.

Clauses 43, 44, and 45 were passed.
On clause 46 being propos.ll,
Mr. JEPHSON moved an amendment having the effect
of institut,ng several polling places, in the same manner as
those eructed for taking the poll in England.
After some unimportant conversation, on the suggestion
of Lord KILLEEN and Mr. STANLEY the amendment was
withdrawn,with the understanding that a clause embodying
the amendment should be proposed on the bringing up of
the Report.

The clause was then agreed to, as also were clauses 47,
48, 49, 50, 51, 52, and 53, without comment.
Clauses 54 and 55 were postponed, on the motion of
Mr. STANLEY.

The 56A, 57th, 58th, and 59th clauses were agreed to.
Clauses from 60 to 66 inclusive were, on the motion of
Mr. STANLEY, struck out of the Bill.
Clauses 67 and 68 were then agreed to without discus-
sion. _

The Bill was then reported. Report to be further con-
sidered on Monday next.
Mr. STANLEY intimated his intention of taking the
Report at five o'clock on Monday, in order that it might
be gone through, if possible, early in the evening, and so not
to interfere with the adjourned debate on the tithe question.

FORGERY BILL.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in moving the post-
ponement of the Commiitee on the Forgery Bill until
Friday next, stated he had received some communications
from places in Scotland and Ireland, all concurring in the
propriety of extending the measure to those countries. To
such a course he saw no possible objection, and his Learned
Friend and the law advisers of each country were activtly
engaged in framing the requisite alterations.—( Heir, hear.)
Mr. 'WYSE expressed his satisfaction at hearing the
intention of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at Three o'clock.

The Tories of Bristol have commenced a can-
vass for Mr. MILES, one of their clique. The reformers
are, however, able, by three to one, if they act iii time, to
return the present Members, Messrs. BAILLIE and FRO.
THEROE.

ARNOLD'S DRAMATIC STORIES.—We are
requested to state that this Work will be published on Mon
day next, by Messrs. Comm RN and BENTLEY. COntaltB
" Goodwin and Goda," a Tale of the Danish Invasion—
" Alberie the Goddess," " The Impostor," and " Schelm-
kind," German Romances—" Leonessa," an Italian Tale—
" Life in Death," and " The Conscript and his Dog,'
French Stories.

SIR WALTER SCOTT.—The answer to in-
quiries this morning was, that Sir WALTER had passed
rather a tranquil night, and remained about the same as
yestesday—the worthy Baronet has lately become very
anxious to quit London, and to be conveyed to Abbotsford
in Scotland, within thirty miles of Edinburgh. His Phy.
sicians, in order to relieve his mind have deemed it neces-
sary that his wishes should be complied with, and arrange.:
meats are now being made for his conveyance thither
immediately. A steam-boat will be engaged for the express
purpose. It is not certain whether he will not be removed
either this afternoon or to-morrow.

CORONER'S I NQUEST.—Yesterday an In-
questin g
those t 0 wasaebxoeuetshshe, lidma,n.db
when
On
adjournment, (In jsoiluno rtnond:
ycewanpmtausete,t,:tdolahlrg,bairrew:ife before
dd Mr. CARTTA R ,
Coroner for Kent, at the Ordnance Arms, Lewisham-
road, Greenwich, nn the body of THOMAL SUAINEI
a:
rat-catcher, aged 40 years, who came by his death,_n a
was alleged, by being thrown down by a man, whilet i
It ap-
state of intoxication, and killed up in the
B,PN°VII known
peared in evidence that the deceased,
whhoe whaabit of drink-
in Greenwich and Lewisham,
unnat ggsi havlfaeLattheef
,ytrawwwiwannoying
a ge:
t!
the former gave him ~
rat-catching at a gentlemart's fine,
drunk. He was returning h.oi
when he met with
rh whom
begged him to desist ; but the
grossly
slight push,
and never spoke more. On picking him
down, up, h
was hanging out of his mouth, lie bled profusely tongue
from
ri
nose, and appeared quite dead. A
and bonnet-boxes,
crowd soon collected, and the pedlar was given in charg,
essalsyedabcuosnet.inoing
to the Police, and detained. Mr. BROWN, of Lewisham,
Mr. ROGERS, of Blackheath, and other medical ger.t!e-
-e hpih::: n
(I:ye a
ne
e began
men, said they had opened the body, anti we,„f „pin,„,
the deceased died from apoplexy, brought on by excess,,
drinking. There was a quantity of extravasated bloc',
on the brain.—The Jury, after a long investigatiot, r
turned a Verdict of " Death from Apoplexy;" and tl,
hat-box-maker was then discharged out of custody.