The Sun.
London, England, 1832-06-29 00:00:00

NEW SOUTH WALES.

Mr. H. L. BULWER presented a petition from certain
free British inhabitants of New South Wales, praying for
the extension to that country, of trial by jury in all civil
cases as it is enjoyed in this country.
Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition to the same
effect from an individual of the name of Edward Smith
Hall, resident in the colony.
Mr. H. L. BULWER then rose to bring forward the
motion of which he hail given notice, that an humble
address be presented to his Majesty, that he might be
graciously pleased to adopt suck measures as mighi be ne-
cessary for giving to the inhabitants of New South Wales
the privilege of trial by jury in civil cases, on the footing on
which it is established in this country ; and to grant such
a system of representation. as the circumstances of the
colony should warrant. It was with considerable reluctance,
arising from his youth and inexperience, that he bad brought
forwara this motion ; anxious as he was twat some
gentleman of longer standing and more established cha-
racter should have undertaken it. lie found himself,
however, so supportedeet every step by practical and im-
portant facts and sound and indispleable authorities, that his
reluctance was completely overcome. He would show that
there never was a case which rested on stronger grounds,
and was supported by inure sober and legitimate argu-
ments, than the case of New South Wales. In the out-
set he had to meet a prejudice which was generally asso-
ciated with that colony. The old nickname of " Botany
Bay" generally suggested the idea of a small colony, ex-
clusively inhabited by thieves and pickpockets. It was
in some degree to meet this objection, and to do away with
this prejudice, that he would take the liberty of calling
the attention of the House to a few statistical tables.
With regard to the resources of New South Wales, its
principal exports were timber, whale oil and wool (parti-
cularly the two latter). In 1822, the quantity of wool
exported, was 1,070,880 lbs., and in 189, it was
1,008,803 lbs. The whale fist ery in 1825 employed hut
three vessels, while ia 1831 it employed thirty- five, being
an increase in six years of eight times the former number.
—(Hear, hear.) The imports in 1828, amounted to five
hundred and seventy thousand pounds, and in 1829,
they had increased to 601,0001. Tie exports in 182 S,
were 90,0501., and in 1829, 161,7161., being an in-
crease of 71,6661. In 1829, Vie number of ships enter-
ing Port Jackson alone was 161. With regard to the
revenue, it appeared from the Appendix to the Report on
Australia, that for the year ending January 1829 it was
102,5771., of which 80,000/. was in t axetion. The po
pulation had been stated with singular uncertainty.
In 1828 there were 36,598 persons, of whom 15,660
were convicts, and the remaining 20,930 free. By refe-
rence to the population returns of preceding years, it ap-
peared, that, in 1824, the population was 33,595, so
that the whole population seemed only to have increased
about 3,000 in five years. If, however, they took the num-
ber of convicts which had probably been omitted, the popu-
lation must have increased eossiderahly greater. So far,
then from this colony being insignificant, without wealth or
importance, and inhabited only by a few outcasts of
society, it contained vast and increasing resources, pos-
sessed a large body of free people, where the pro-
ducts of every country might be cultivated.---(Hear.)
In addition to all these, there was the magnificent
idea that through this colony the means might be ontained
of extending the British language and the British empire,
as far to the east as it had already been carried by
the other British Colonies to the west. It was not these
circumstances alone which had induced him to advocate
the cause of those colonists. Stories hat reached this
country of the grossest acts of oppression and misrule,
and they had been told of persons having been illegally
transported, who bad been solemnly acquitted by a
court of justice. He did not say they were true, be-
cause they were merely ex parie, but he must say,
that every person must feel the deepest disgust that any
individual in the British dominions should he puse
.eased of a power which rendered it possible for
him to be accused of such acts. At present the
Governor of New South Wales had the power so levy taxes
en imports, the disposal of the revenue, the distritiutien of
convict labour was subject to his decision, he could record
the pardon of asy convict, he had assumed the right of sus-
pending the public officers, and he bad the disposal of
patronage to the amount of 20,000/. per annum. The
only check or control on these powers was a sort of
legislative assembly, sitting with closed doors, consisting of
15 members, 8 being ex-officio, and the otlier 7 named
by the Government at home on the recommendation of
the Governor. None of the other Cnionie peeseased a
quarter of the inhabitants that New South Wales Mai, yet
they all possessed legislative assemblies an,l trial tay
wry. Was there then, he would ask, any thing 13',)
extraordinary in the society of this colony, teat
t should be made an exception ? These was nothing so
likely to produce discord between the colonists and eman-
cipationists, as the law as it now stand, anal era measure
would more unite them than that which ho l.ad pointed
out. Could it be said that the izlw now existing ID New
South Wales was such as ought to be continued, when
at was notorious that crime increased under it every day?
In all cases he would matte property the qualification for a
juror or a member or the legislative assembly. It
might be considered as improper that free colenists and
mancipated convicts should loam portions of ibe same
ribunals. He did not t sink so ; on the contrary, he
bought that the more closely they were drawn together
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tories especially, he asked was there no long-existing
!ell from having naval and miltra•y officer, Rolm; in ilia
.apacity?--(11 ar.) Their conduct as jurors Irft the
.eople no hope ofjustice being done, especially who re con-
icts were brought he ore thee' tribunal. Thus it hap-
,,ned that crime bad getatly increased, foa I,lis4mers in
,iLstiactioil *toped tit uotlime rather team b- tried by it

military tribunal. On one occasion a paper was found in 1
the jury-box in Sydney, in which it was asked why seven
officers should be kept kicking their heels for seven hours
on the case of a rascally convict ?—(Hear) A system f
this sort should uo longer be continued, for indeed it pie
him pain to say that the life of prisoners was not safe before
a military jury. It was now somewhat doubtful if con-
victs would any longer be sent to New South Wales; and
yet he feared objections would be made to altering the old
and barbarous system which bad so long prevailed in that
colony.—[Here the Hon. Member referred to the evidence
taken before the Transportation Committee in 1811, from
which it appeared Governor Hunter, Mr. Commissary-
General Palmer, Governor Bligh, the late Judge-Advocate,
Mr. Bent, all concurred in expressing their opinion, not
only that trial by (civil) jury should be established in New
South Wales, but there were a sufficient number of respect-
able persons in the colony who were every way qualified for
the office of jurymen.)—With regard to the point of repre-
sentation he thought there could be but one opinion as to the
necessity of having some mode struck out by which th
people of that colony could assist in maturing the regula-
tions for their own necessities. He did not go the length
of saying that a representative assembly could be firmed
there at once, but be thought that something like one
might he established. The immense distance of New
South Wales from the parent country rendered this sti.l
more nece-sary. If taxes and population were to be taken
as the fair basis of representation, sure'y the population of
that settlement, which was every day increasing, coupled
with its taxation, entitled it to he in some way represented.
The taxes paid by New South Wales were more than
100,0001. a year, being more than was paid by the whole
['sited States previously to the declaration of their inde-
pendence. The Hon. Member went ioto a statement to
show the peculiar claims which this colony ha-1 to have a
representation ; and if this was once established he was
confi,lent it would correct many of the abuses and
anomalies which existed there. What, he would ask,
could justify or explain the proceedings carried on
against the Press ? As an instance he would mention
the case of Mr. Holt, who had five sentences pronounced
against him by military tribunals, whilst be was at the
same time receiving damages in the same cases in a court
of civil jurisdiction. What he asked for this colony was
nothing more than was recommended in 1812 and 1823,
and what had been approved and recommended by some
of the ablest statesmen in the country. The Hon. Mem-
ber then moved for an address to extend trial by jury and
the representative system to New South Wales.
Mr. ROBINSON seconded the motion.

The SPEA rEg having put the question,
Lord HOWICK said when General Bourke went out
as Governor of New South Wales he had instructions to
obtain information respecting the propriety of allowing
trials by jury in that colony. On this point there had
been much contradictory evidence, and the Governor was
desired to report his opinion ; and he was likewise autho-
rized, if his opinion should be favourable to the change, to
inform the colonists that the Government at home
would extend that j.rivilege to them. The result of the
Governor's inquiry was, that he thought the change ought
to take piece, and he had announced it to the colonist.,
who, in the course of the next year, would have the benefits
of trial by jury. Government was preparing necessary
authorities, which should be sent out as soon as convenient.
This statement, he hoped, would be a sufficient answer to
one part of the Hon. Member's motion. As to the
secrnd point, in which he called, not for a representative
assembly, but for something like it, it was difficult for him
Howick) to distinguish what the Hon. Member
exactly in. ant. He was rather ineined to think that
the Hon. Member wished for a representative body, and
he should therefore address himself to that point. The
Hon. M,mher seemed to have left the real difficulty un-
touched. He did not seem to have taken into his con-
sideration the great difference which existed between vo-
luntary emigrants and convicts. It was well known that
great jealousy existed between emancipists and free settlers.
The Hon. Gentleman ought to have shown whether of
not the emancipists were to be admitted to the exercise or
the proposed franchise. He (Lord Howick) must infer
that • uch was the object of the motion, and be believed it
would be considered by the House as a startling proposi-
tion, particularly when he stated what a paramount in-
terest that body would have under a representative system.
In 1828 ti e number of free persons and free settlers in
the colony was only 4;454 males above twelve years of
age, whilst the number of emancipists was 6,137, and of
convicts there were 14,155. Since that time, when the
last census was taken, there had been sent out to the
colony (1,889 convicts, which was far greater than
the number of free settlers. Thus the increase ~f
the emancipists was likely to become even still
greater than the increase of free settlers. To
show how troublesome it was to deal with some of those
lie would merely mention that Mr. Girard, of whose dis-
putes with General Darling so much had been said, bad
formerly been a respectable pickpocket in London, front
whence he ha.,l been transported in 1821 for stealing a
watch, and in 1831 be was a great contractor in New
South Wales. The emancipists had not only increased in
numbers, but had also acquired property; and under a '
representative system in that colony they would form the
far greater portion of the elected as well as the elective
body. Now he would ask if the House was prepared to
throw the power of the colony into such hands ? If they
-were, one thing he would answer for was, that whatever
body controlled the representative assembly, would soon
assume the government of the whole colony. He viewed
with horror the increase of crime; but he attributed that
increase to the great number of male convicts who had
been sent out, and not to the want of a representative
government, or the severity of the military juries. Aka-
sores had been taken to diminish crime, and one of those
measures was to send out 600 females. Free settlers bad
also been encouraged. He admitted that the revenue col-
lected in Van Dietnen's Land was large, but it was not
oppressive. One of the largest items was derived from a
ditty on spirits, and it was well known that an inordi-
nate use of ardent spirits was one of the chief causes
of crime in that colony. The Hon. Member bad
made out no case. He had not shown one instance of
legislative abuse. Besides, there were many checks upon
power. Every Act, before it was passed, was regular's
promu'gated through the colony, and that through the
medium of an entirely free Press. But then the Hon.
Member said there had been partiality in the administr e-
tion of the government. Why, if that charge were just,
it was no fit foundation for the desires of the Hon. Mem-
ber. But it was not just. General Darling had been
most scandalously aspersed. That officer had not so con.
eucted himself as to be justly obnoxious to the attacks
made upon him. He (Lord Howick) did not mean to
say that he had inquired into every charge against General
Darling; but he had inquired into many, and found them
all groundless. General Darling bad been placed in a
most difficult situation, and he bad well acquitted himself.
The Government had now done away with grants of land.
A free sale by public competition was adopted, and there
could no longer be a charge of favouritism. With respect
to the distribution of convicts, that point was not so
easily arranged. Some steps, however, had been taken,
and they were calculated to prevent the imputation of
favouritism. Then the Hon. Member had given another
reason why a legislative assembly should be given to the
colony, and that reason was the impossibility of the truth
of charges being arrived at in this country. That was a
most extraordinary reason. In the colony there was a
free Press, and it was fully used ; and he was decidedly of
opinion that the merits of cases were now truly known.
lie therefore must oppose the motion as unnecessary.
Mr. WARBURTON went through a statement of the
prosecutions instituted against Mr. Hall, and contended
that some alterations were necessary. In his opinion a
legislative assembly would have the desired effect.
Mr. DIXON contended that the colony of New South
Wales was well entitled to a representative government.
After a few words from Mr. Stanley, Mr. O'Connell,
Lord Howick, and Mr. Hunt,
Mr. BURGE would support the motion before the
House upon very many grounds, but upon none more
strongly than the experience which the country had had
that the colonies possessing legislative assemblies were
;invariably better and more e conomically governed than
those which were not possessed of such an institution. TI e
expenditure of all colonies which bad any thing like a free
legislative assembly had been uniformly found less than
the expenditure of the colonies that were denominated
Crown colonies. He thought every argument used by the
Noble Lord opposite (Lord Howick) particularly fallacioue;
for if Ministers were not prepared to give the colony a
legislative assembly, in the full and free acceptation of
the term, they might, at least, try the experiment upon a
confined on partial scale. They might, for instance, in-
troduce into the existing Executive Council two or more
members freely elected by the people, as a modification of
that assembly. The experiment might certainly be made
with some limitation of numbers, or with some modifica-
tion of the franchise ; and now that the subject had b, en
so often discussed, the people of this country had a right to
expect that a reforming Ministry would make such a con.
cession to the colonists of so rising and prosperous a set.
tlemen t.
Mr. SLANEY begged the Hon. Member to consider
hew he could reconcile his love of a free legislative as-
sembly in a colony, when he bad recently stood forward
as the unflinching opponent of every extension of elective
rights or legislative privileges among the people at home.
--(Hear.) He (Mr. Slaney) would maintain that the
rople of England ought, upon a subject like the present,

to place implicit confidence in the Goi-eruinent, as Minis-
tete bad afforded such substantial proof of their desire to
extend and secure popular rights and privileges whet evi t
it was praetic _ _ .

Mr. BULWER replied. He would consent to with-
draw so much of his motion as related to the jury system
in the colony of New South Wales. Upon this point he
was satisfied by what had been said by the Noble Lord;
but, upon all the other points, what his Lordship had ad-
vanced had confirmed him in the opinions which he had
formed upon the subject before be bad brought it before
the House. He should now alter his original intentions,
and move that an humble Address be presented to his Ma-
jesty, praying that his Majesty will be graciously pleased
to cause measures to be taken in order to give to the free
inhabit tnts of New South Wales a system of legislative
representation such as the present condition and circum-
stances of that colony may seem to require.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the Motion
Against it t7
Majority against the Motion -41
On our return to the gallery we found Lord Viscount
EBRINGTON presenting a petition, which had been put
into his hands this day, from certain Polish refugees i❑
France, praying the House of Commons to interfere on
behalf of the Polish kingdom.
After a few words from Sir C. WETITERELL,

The SPEAKER objected to the reception of the peti-
tion, inasmuch as he contended the House could only re-
ceive those which complained of grievances within this
kingdom, and could not interfere with the wrongs, real or
supposed, of the subjects of another Sovereign.
Mr. O'CONNELL suggested that those petitioners,
although foreigners, had a right to petition the House to
address the Crown to interfere. He believed that on a
former occasion a petition of the Vaudois had, as he
thought very properly, been received, praying the Crown
to interfere.

The SPEAKER doubted whether the Honourable and
Learned Member could substantiate the precedent be had
quoted.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON conceived that this petition
merely went to claim from Great Britain the fulfilment
of treaties by which she had guaranteed the rights of
Poland.

After some further remarks, as to the reception of the
petition, from the SPEAKER, Sir G. WARRENDEa, Mr:
A. BARING, and Sir R. VYVYAN, the Noble Lord
(Ehrington) withdrew the petition for the present, and
then presented petitions to the same effect as the preceding
from Sidmouth and Topsham, which were ordered to lie
on the table.