The Sun.
London, England, 1835-03-20 00:00:00

UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD.

The Noble Duke also laid on the table certain papers re-
lating to the University of Oxford.

ESTABLISHED CHURCH.
The LORD CHANCELLOR presented the House with
a copy of the report made by the Commissioners on the Esta-
blished Church in this country.—The report was laid on the
table.

CANADA.
Lord BROUGHAM then rose and said, in pursuance
of a notice he had given yesterday, he should briefly
state to their Lordships the subject matter of this peti-
tion. The petitioners were a very considerable majority of
the Legislative Assembly in the province of Canada. That
province, as their Lordships were well awaae, had been in any
thing butsa satisfactory state for a number of years. There
had been great dissatisfaction, he would not say maladminis-
tration, but certainly a greater misfortune could not happen to
any country, than that the majority of its Representatives

. .
should disagree with the measures proposed by the Ministers
Who governed the mother country.. It was almost the only
colony which, during a lone. course of years, had been stead-
fastly attached to the mother country. It was remarkable for
great loyalty during all times ; by that term he meant its devo-
tion to the parent State. The majority of the disaffected now,
however, was very considerable, and it was necessary to remind
the House they were divided in the proportion of seventy-
eight over ten. At all events there was at this time, to use
the language of this country, a direct collision between the
Upper and the Lower Houses of Assembly. This was a
great misfortune. He did not wish to blame either one party or
the other, but it required their Lordships' immediate attention.
A great number of Bills had been sent by the Lower to the
Upper House, and rejected there. In one instance, no less
than twenty-seven Bills had been in fact rejected—at least
foUrteen or fifteen had been rejected, and the others so muti-
lated, that the Lower House would not receive them back
again. During the last ten years, no less than one hundred
and sixty-seven Bills had been treated in that way. The object
of many of those Bills was most wholesome. One was to obtain a
better security from the Receiver- General. It had been brought
forward in consequence of the state having lost no less a sum
than 600,000 dollars by the course he had thought proper to
pursue. That bill the Higher House had thought proper to reject,
and they had translated the object of it from the office of Re-
ceiver-General to that of a member of the Legislative Council.
Another bill was the census of the population ; another was to
secure the vacating of seats by members of the Assembly upon re-
ceiving offices. Another was for the relief of the Dissenters,
and for preventing soldiers from interfering at elections. There
were also numberless hills for promoting education in the
Colonies. All these bills, most important in their objects, the
Higher House of Assembly had thought proper to reject. One
Bill he apprehended they had rejected, from the example
of his Noble Friend on the Woolsack, viz., the Bill for
establishing Local Courts; another Bill was for the better
securing the independence of the Judges. He trusted this
subject would have the greatest attention of his Majesty's
Ministers, as he understood one of the Judges of that
country held two civil appointments independent of his
Judgeship. He ( Lord Brougham) begged to remind the
House that the petition came from the great bady of the
House of Commons of Canada, who had the power of im-
peaching the Judges. It was worthy the consideration of their
Lordships. The petitioners complained of the conduct of the
Governor with whom there appeared to be a perpetual internal
war ; the petitioners charged the Governor with seizing hold
of the revenue of the country, and refusing, when there was a
great alarm at the ravages of the cholera, and when from ] ,000
to 1,300 people died of it, to advance a sum to erect an hospital,
though the Governor knew that such a sum would be repaid,
since advances made on previous occasions were honestly re-
funded. There was another complaint against the Governor
for having, after several persons had been killed by the troops
in the elections of 1832, shown too great haste in tendering to
those troops a vote of thanks. Perhaps the Governor was right,
and the troops had done their duty ; but the majority of
Parliament thought that they ought not to have received a
vote of thanks on the part of the Government. There was
also a complaint against him for refusing to issue certain writs,
through which there was not a sufficient number of Members
returned. Those were some of the different charges—mind,
he did not say that they were all well founded, for he knew
some of them were not—made by these respectable and
powerful petitioners. They prayed for redress of grievances ;
they complained of oppression and of the vices of their system
of Government. The petition at any rate showed the lament-
able state of differences between the two branches of the Legis-
lature, and it showed in what estimation the Executive Govern-
ment was held by the people of the country. In praying for re-
lief they considered that some change ought to take place in their
Constitution ; that there ought to be a better management of the
public funds ; better security for their interest generally, and a
reform in the Legislative Council. He would say that a remedy
might be found in some Parliamentary reform, and he thought the
sooner a household suffrage was given to them the better.
His opinion respecting colonies was that they ought not to be
established or kept up at any great expense of money—that
they ought to be abandoned unless they could contrive to go
on smoothly, and defray the fair proportion of the expenses of
the military and naval establishments they entailed on the
mother country.

The Earl of RIPON said that not having the smallest idea
that the important petition which the Noble, and Learned
Lord had commented on would be presented that evening—
(Lord Brougham—l gave notice of it yesterday evening)
—he had no opportunity of calling to his recollection the cir-
cumstances alluded to in it, and the grievances of which it
complained. He was not even in the House at the com-
mencement of the Noble and Learned Lord's comment on
the petition, so that he could not be fully aware of all that
was said. But it appeared that the Noble and Learned Lord
had applied something of censure to the Government under
which ne acted, and one of whom fee Noble and Learned
Lord was.—( No, no, from Lord Brougham.) If the
Noble and Learned Lord knew as much of the petition as he
' did, the Noble and Learned Lord would see that it did not
refer to any acts of his ( Lord Ripon) during the time that the
Noble and Learned Lord was one of his colleagues. He con-
sidered that the Noble and Learned Lord ought not to have
passed censure on him particularly when no intimation was
given to him (Lord Ripon). The present petition embodied
ninety-two resolutions, agreed to last year by the House of
Assembly of Lower Canada. Anything more unfair, anything
more unjust, anything more contrary to truth, he would say
never was affirmed by any body of men than the allegations
contained in those resolutions.—( Hear.) When4lie looked to
what took place in the other House of Parliament when he
saw that those ninety-two resolutions were referred to a Select
Committee of the House of Commons—when he saw that the
Noble Friend who succeeded him proposed that Committee,
and how anxious he was to hear all the details of those per-
sons who presented a similar petition to the present one—
when he knew that they received the fullest consideration—
when he reflected on every part of his conduct, and on
that of his successor—he was astonished that any blame
could be attributed to, them. Besides, when the report of
that Committee was made, it was not thought necessary to
bring forward the evidence on which it was founded. Since
the evidence was not produced he knew not how the charges
could be rebutted, and their Lordships must really feel that it
would be too much to go through again the numerous and
heavy charges contained in the petition. But he would ven-
ture to say that there was not a single complaint or grievance
in the petition which he (Lord Ripon), during the time he
last held office, did not write to the Governor of Canada about,
and which he did not endeavour to redress.—( Hear, hear.) It
was neither his fault, nor that of the Governor or Legislative
Council, that his measures failed of success, and if ever they
should go into settling the question of finance, no settlement
of it would ever be obtained from that body from whom the
petition came, and whose charges seem to meet the concur-
rence of his Noble and Learned Lord. Much had been said
about the independence of the Judges, as if the question was
not liked by the Government, and as if he had not pressed the
Governor to call the attention of the Legislature to their inde-
pendence. There were two sorts of independence of the-Judggs
—the one independence of the Crown, the other independence
of the people ; and his object was to render them in the proper
degree independent of both. 'Well, a Bill was passed for this
purpose, and what did the Legislative Aiiernbly do ? They
tacked on a fresh clause, directly at variance with the prin-
ciples recommended, and provided that the Judges should be
paid not out of the funds of the country, but out of the funds of
the Crown, over which they had no control. He did not dis-
tinctly recollect whether the Governor gave his assent to the
Bill ; but if the Governor did give his contingent assent, he
(Lord Ripon), as his Majesty's Secretary of State, advised his
-Majesty not to give his Royal assent to it.
Lord BROUGHAM—The petitioners complained that the
Legislative Council threw it out.
The Earl of RIPON—Yes, they were so charged, but
they were obliged to do so, and to this point be had paid the
greatest attention. When he looked to all the items of the
petition he could not help saying,•that they contained the most
unfounded and unjust charges.
Lard BROUGHAM—My Noble Friend complains that I
gave him no notice respecting the presentation of this petition;
but I did give notice of it last night. I read the petition care-
fully, and I really could not see that it contained any charges
against my Noble Friend. His name is not mentioned in it,
nor is that of the mother country. The charges are all
against the system. The question is, are we, or are we not to
retain our privileges with respect to presenting petitions.?
Must we keep them in our hands—not open them, nor say a
word about them ? I said over and over again—l repeated in
a way to weary your Lordships—that I did not know anything
as to the truth of the statements of the petition. Indeed, I
said that I knew some of them to be false. Upon my own
faith I asserted nothing. I said nothing on my own credit
and responsibility:__.

The 'Earl of RIPON—It is true the petition does not refer
personally to me, but it does to serious transactions that have
happened under my government. With respect to the inter-
ference of the military at elections, they ought to be punished
if they interfere improperly. The transactions alluded to was
an unfortunate one ; but I inquired into the circumstances, and
examined the evidence on the Coroner's Inquest, and having
done so. I considered myself justified in conveying to the troops
his Majesty's approbation of their conduct. Nothing has
since occurred--no evidence has come out to cast any slur or
impute any misconduct to the persons engaged in this unfor-
tunate transaction.

Lord BR OUG HAM—I said, in alluding to that transac-
tion, that for aught I knew the troops .were. justified, and upon
that point I did not say a word against the Government.
The Earl of ABE RDDEN was ready to admit that the
people of the provinces of the Canadas were not without some
just grounds of complaint.—( Hear.) Whilst he made this ad-
mission he was also bound to add that the Government of this
country for many years had invariably shewn its willingness to
relieve the well-founded grievances of the inhabitants of Ca-
nada. They sent last year ninety-two resolutions, embodying
their grievances, to that and to the other House of Parliament
of this country, and those same grievances were enforced by
the present petition. He would always meet those grievances
in the same spirit. If, instead of being ninety-two they
were 900, he would meet them in the same spirit.—( Hear: )
lie would meet them not only in the spirit of justice, bit in
that of conciliation and kindness ; and if anything should be
omitted by petitioners that would be for the good of the pra-
vince he would be happy to support it, and propose measures
to carry it into effect.----( Cheers.) Therefore, towards the
people of Cannda no one could have a better feeling than
he had.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord, it
must be confessed on all hands, had adopted a most extra-
ordinary course. The petition the Noble and Learned
Lord presented was not a petition having the least refe-
rence to the subjects detailed to their Lordships, and there-
fore it could contain nothing that referred to the Noble Earl
(the Earl of Ripon) on the cross benches. The petition
was directed against the Noble and Learned Lord himself,
and against his colleagues, for their conduct since last July.
(Loud Cheers.) The petition was framed in December