The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-25 00:00:00

'would not be 'altogether cleared up till the entl of the year.
Now if the amount of taxes was taken at 9011. with the
Clmmissioner's list of houses, this again would take Dart-

mouth just otit of the schedule 1-3 list ; but if, as he contended,

the true amount of taxes and the true amount of houses

were taken, Dartmouth would be taken as high up the
list as No. 95, which would place it far beyond schedule B,
_ _

which stopped short at No. S 6. Taking all *these things,
conjoined with the shipping importance of the borough)
into consideration, he would venture to say, that not flora
the very first day on which there had 6ecn a House of
Commons in England—not from the 4th of Henry 111.
up to the present moment, had there been an instance of a
town, so situated as Dartmouth, being ti;sfranchised—
(Cheers)—and be would further add, that if the House
was determined, in spite of all these things, to disfranchise
that borough; it must ht on some other principle than that
laid down by the Noble Lord—(Cheers)—but if there
was one thing more important than another in this very
important Bill, it was that they should clearly keep to
some intelligible rule of conduct.—(Loud cheers.) He
had beard it said that it was a matter of very little im-
portance whether Dartmouth had one or two Members.
That mien be the case with respect to the community at
large, but it was of the last importance for the House to
take care that it did not-deprive any town of its franchise
without some distinct and undeniable reason—(Hear)—
and such a reason appeared to him to be entirely wanting
in this case.—(Cheers.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that there was only one
observation of the Hon. Member Which he thought deserv-
ing of attention, and that related to the assessed taxes.
There was one difference between him and the Hon.
Member. The Hon. Member said that the collector of
the assessed taxes had made the assessment 2001 more
than it was stated in the list of Lieut. Drummond. He
understood from the tax-office that the assessment had
been made by the surveyor of the taxes, and that his esti-
mate as to the town of Dartmouth was the saint 'as that in
the list. He also said that the future taxes would be the
same as the taxes of the past year. There was, however,
a question of fact at issue between item, and that was a suf-
ficient reason for postponing the question of Dartmouth till
the assertions were reconciled and the fact clearly esta-
blished by further information.—(Hear hear.)
Sir HENRY WILLOUGHBY explained.

Mr. HOULDSWORTH denied that there had been
any decrease in Dartmouth, except in relation to New-
foundland, and that was owing to a change in the policy
of the Government. Dartmouth had still a great trade.
The coasting trade bad not decreased, as had been stated,
but it had increased. The Hon. Member entered into some
statistical statement to show that Dartmouth was a thriv-
ing and a flourishing place.
Captain BASTARD said a few words, which were in-
audible in the gallery.
A short conversation ensued hetweon Mr. COURTENAY,
Dlr. HOULDSWORPII, and Lord lotiN flussELL, which
the noise in the House preveated the persons in the gallery
from catching.

Mr. CROKER mold take that opportunity of repeat-
ing a statement which he had previously made in u. thinner
House, and which would show that Dartmouth did not
deserve to be disfranchised so well'as Tavistock. In fact,
according to that statement, Dartmouth, which was 67
in the list, ought to be placed higher than Tavistock,
which was 84. He would take the four elements of re-
presentation which had been assumed by the framers of
the Bill—namely, population, la houses, and the
amount of assessed taxes. Dartmouth then had 4,566
inhabitants, 411 101. houses, 634 houses, and paid ';6B/.
in assessed taxes—making a total of 6,379. Now Tavi-
stock, which it should be remembered, was not next to
Dartmouth in the list, contained 4336 inhabitants, and 269
101. houses. He begged leave to call attention particu-
larly to this circumstance, because it was the important
element. The 101. houses were the very element of the
new Bill. In Dartmouth there were 411 101. houses, and
in Tavistock only 269. In Tavistock there were 624
houses, and it paid 11241. of assessed taxes, making a
total of 6355.—( Loud cheers).
Lord ALTHORP made a brief statement, in reply to
the Right Hon. Gentleman, which was totally lost in the
gallery, owing to the noise in the Mouse.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL had heard some ealcul itions
of the same kind before, and they, were certainly the most
curious he bad ever heard. The Right Hon. Gentleman
added together the four elements of representation, but he
added some of them twice. He took, first of all, the 101.
houses, and then he took all the houses, including the 10/,
houses, which he had previously added. To that he added
the population and the assessed taxes, and that the result
should excite the astonishment of the House was not ex-
traordinary. He saw that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had taken his advice, and had studied Cocker, but he was
afraid, with such perverse ingenuity, that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had not profited by his studies, or bad not un-
eerstood his teacher.—(llear, hear.)
Mr. CROKER said, that that was the second time
that night, and the fortieth time since the Reform Bill
had been before the House, that the Noble Lord had un-
dertaken to be his schoolmaster; but he had not profited
much by his lessons, though he did not know whether
that arose from incompetency in the teacher or dullness in
the scholar.—(Hear, hear.) He would strike out the
element of the houses, and confine himself to the three
elements of the 101. houses, the population, and the as-
sessed taxes, and then he would say, that the sum was
greater at Dartmouth than at Tavistock. He was able to
show that there were not less than six or seven towns
which had been favoured in regard to Dartmouth.
A conversation then ensued about some discrepancies in
the returns, and about Totness and Appleby, in which
Mr. Courtenay, Mr. Stanley, Lord Althorp, and Mr.
Praed took part, but which the noise and confusion in the
House rendered unintelligible in the gallery ; and then the
question as to Dartmouth was postponed.
St. lye's, Cornwall—after a few words from Mr. MAC-
KINNON-Rye, Sussex, and Clitheroe, Lancashire, were
ordered to stand part of schedule B.
On the question that Morpeth stand part of schedule 13,
_ _

Mr. CROKER said, if Appleby had been treated like
Morpeth, there would have been no reason to complain.
To Morpeth two places had been added, by drawing two
yellow lines, which places were said to be the property of
William Ord, Esq. He wished that William Ord, jun.
Eqs. had made similar additions'to Appleby.—(Hear.)
Lord MILTON—It was not William Ord, jun. Esq.
who was the Commissioner.
Mr. CROKER—We wish he bad been, and then the
work might have been done for Appleby as for Motpeth.
Question agreed to.
The next question was that Heston (Cornwall) be placed
in schedule B.
Mr. CROKER reminded the Committee that they were
then sitting in a judicial character, not deciding a question
of policy but of right. He was not going to enter into
arguments as to the principle of Reform ; he was not
going to enter into any arguments as to the mode of
carrying that principle into effect ; he was going to ask
them calmly to consider the cause of Helston, and decide
whether Helston should or should not be disfranchised.
The case lay within a very narrow compass, and he be-
lieved that he should not delay them five miuutes in cool-
ing to a decision. There were two elements of disfran-
chisement—houses and as ess.ld taxes. With regard to
houses, he made no claim for Helston ; the return cor-
rectly stated the number. The Committee was, however,
aware that, in some of the boroughs, a part of the amount
of the assessed taxes was omitted.. Helston,waa one of
those. The assessed taxes amounted to 441., and the. ef-
fect of adding the assessed taxes to the houses,.would be to
raise Helston from S 4 to 86. He had understood from a
communication he had had with the Noble Lord, that the
Noble Lord admitted that fact.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—It would raise the borough
One.
Mr. CROKER—.It was agreed that supplying the 411.
of assessed taxes omitted must raise it, though that would
not take it out of schedule B. But there was
another circumstance. The assessed taxes of Helston
were goad short 751. In the paper in the posses-
sion of the Noble Lord, and which had been laid on
the table, the sum was 57/. ; hut this was a clerical
error ; 571. having, by a change of the figures, been
written for 751. But taking 571. as the sum, which was
the amount of the exemption allowed for yeomanry ca-
valry, he contended that that exemptioc for the horses of
the yeomanry ought to be added to the assessed taxes. In
estimating the taxes paid by any town, nothing was more
unfair than to exclude the exemptions. Helston was, he
believed, the only town where this exemption took place.
This was the case for that borough—by including the
amount of the exemption for the yeomanry horses in the
return of the assessed taxe,, Helston would be entitled to be
removed from schedule B. In his opinion it had a jtkat
claim to that removal.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, if the suggestion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman were adopted, it would introduce an en-
tirely new principle. It was impossible that the exemp-
tions should be included in the returns of the assessed
taxes. If they included exemptions for yeomanry cavalry,
they might include exemptions for farm hew,es, and for
farm servants. With respect to the yeomanry exemp-
tion, he believed it was well known that many persons en-
tered the yeomanry. in order that they. might keep hOlsee
without. paying the. taxes. . . .
Mr. C. W. WYNN said the, yeomanry were a patrioti
Corps) and it' Was 'tegtad tj wake that which 'gave "tri

toivn of Ileiston a claim on public favour, a ground for
inflicting on it a permanent injury.
Lord 3. RUSSELL had no intintioti Cf inapUting
blame to the yeomanry, and his night Hon. Friend Might
as well have said that ht iVished to ruin agriculture when
he objected to the c'Ntinption for farm servants;
Sir R. VYVYAN thought that in relation
to other towns, had no right tb beep two Members ; but
in relation to the elements of representation, as laid down
by the Noble Lords, it had.
After a few words from Mr. \i'vtirt?

Nlr. HUNT could not agree in the objections stated by
the Right Hon. Gtratltaioin (Mr. Wynn), for be saw no
reason why Helston should have an additional Member,
because it had a yeomanry corps. He knew it to be a
fact that many of the members of the etnita ry corps were
in the habit of enrolling themselves, Merely for the Mir-
pose of saving the hut ;e tax ; and that, on rektiew days,
they were in the habit of sending thole horses out with
bluchers' boys and apprentlees on their backs to do the
duty.—(Cries of ti No," and laughter.) It was a fact, an'
he knew lt.—(Laughter.)
Yir. ARTHUR TREVOR had We honour to be a
member of a yeomanry Corps; and he, on their part, re-
pelled the insinttatioias of the Hon. Member for Preston,
with an iladignation which could be only exceeded b.y his
centempt.—(Laughter.) The members of the peornahry
corps were taken from a class oferen to Whom the payment
of the horse tax was a matter of very little consequence.
After a dew Wollts from Alr. PIGOTT, Which did not
reach the gallety,
Mt. HUNT said, the Hom. Menthet for Durham (Mr.
Trevor) boasted that he belonged to the yeomanry; but
really if he (Hunt) had not heard it from the Hon.
Member's own mouth, he could not believe it.—
(Laughter and cheers.) He was sure, however, that the
Hon. Member must be an officer; for if he had been
private, he could not have•got out of the awkWltti squad.
—(Coutinued laughter.) He knew nothing of the yeo-
manry or of the lion. Mesher, but this he would say,
that if the Hob Member was a sample of the yeomanry,
he hoped the Lord would keep him out of their way.
Mr. TREVOR would only put it to the good taste
and feeling of the Committee whether the course pursued
by the Member for Preston was not quite unparliamentary.
After a few words from Mr. PHA ED, recalling the Com.
mirtee to the question really at issue,
Mr. CROKER said that the Noble Lord, when re-
plying to the objections of the Hon. Baronet (Sir H.
Willoughby), with respect to Dartmouth, had declared
he would not Ira to the amount of taxation paid, but to
the amornt of the books of assessment.—(Hear, hear.)
In the case of Helston, however, the Noble Lord, still
adopting the principle of taxation, took a different course,
for he declared now that he would not at Helston look to
the assessment, but to the amount actually paid.—(Cheers.)
If the Government intended to deprive the borough of
Helston of its rights by a proceeding of this kind, they
should have given the members of the yeomanry corps
fair notice, and he was confident that under such circum-
stances they would at once have dissolved themselves rather
than by continuing their services lose the privilege to
which they were entitled.
Sir H. ST. PAUL having made a few observations from
beneath the gallery amid loud calls of " Question !"

Lord JOHN RUSSELL denied that he had intended

to cast the slightest imputation on the yeomanry, for no
man held their services higher than he did. The question
at issue was distinct from that of their service. It was,
whether the exemptions from taxation were to be included,
and he was by no means certain, if there was no yeomanry
corps at Helston, that the same number of horses would
be kept.—(Hear.) •
Lord VALLETORT said, that the yeomanry of Hels-
ton were the corps to which the whole of an important
district owed the protection of its property during the in-
cendiary riots of last summer ; and could it be possible

that a British House of Commons would now turn round
on those who had enrolled themselves for such a laudable
purpose, and say, because you have done so, we will de-
prive you of your franchise?—(Hear.)
After an observation from Sir JOHN BR YEIGES,
Mr. CROKER was not, certainly, prepared with cal-
culations to show the effect which would be produced on
the taxation of Helsten by adding the duty payable on yeo-
manry horses ; and he would, therefore, move that the
further consideration of that borough be postponed.
Lord ALTHORP contended that the question for the
Committee to decide was simply this : if they were pre-
pared to allow the exemptions on the score of horse duty,
as part of the taxation of Helston, there was a reason for
postponement. If they were not prepared to allow it,
then they could decide at once. He was not disposed to
say it would be safe to admit the principle contended for
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and therefore he must
press the question to a division.
Mr. C. WYNN said that the horse duty of the yeo-
many was not extinguished, it was merely postponed ; and
if the corps were to dissolve themselves, they would in-
stantly become liable.—(Hear.)
The Committee (after a delay of three quarters of an
hour, during which they debated with closed doors), di-
vided—

Ayes 256
Noes
Majority -77
The House then resumed, and the CHAIRMAN obtained
leave to sit agsin on Tuesday next.
Mr. BERNAL brought up the report of the Committee
of Supply on the Ordnance Estimates. The report was
read, and the resolutions agreed to.
Mr. GOULBURN asked the Noble Lord opposite
whether it was the intention of the Government to bring
in a Bill for the consolidation of the laws relating to the
assessed taxes, and for continuing the law for the composi-
tion of assessed taxes?

Lord ALTHORP should bring in a Bill for both pur-
poses.
On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, it was ordered that

the House, at its rising, should adjourn to Monday next.
Lord NUGENT moved that the Speaker do issue his
warrant for the election of a capital burgess for Great
Marlow, in the room of Owen Williams, Esq. deceased.
Mr. R. TREVOR gave notice that he should move that
the county Members of England and Wales be added to the
Committee now sitting on the divisions of counties.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'clock.

It is disagreeable to observe the position in
which Lord PLUNKETT appears to have been placed, or to
have placed himself, before the House of Commons, with
regard to the Secretaryship to the Master of the Rolls. If
his Lordship assented to the introduction of a legislative
measure, for the sake of enabling Sir WILLIAM 3PMAIION
to.try his legal right, then, undoubtedly, in point of high
feeling, he ought not to have qualified that assent, by sti-
pulating to save the pocket of an individual whom he had
himself appointed from the results, whatever they might
be, of a decision upon the question of right. The MASTER.
of the ROLLS must establish the right, or have it given
against him. In the latter c t se, the Loan CHANCELLOR'S
nominee would have nothing to fear, anti he had no need
of any preliminary protection : in the former case,—namely,
that of the question being determined against the CHAN-
CELLOR,—he ought not to make any condition which
would deprive the MASTER of the ROLLS of his present
right, and transfer it pro line vire, and in defiance of law,
to himself. The taste of the House of Commons, on this
occasion, evidently revolted against the Irish CHANCELLOR.
We repeat it is a disagreeable business.--Times.
" The Adventures of a Younger Son," about
.which so much curiosity has been excited, are said to con-
sist in a great measure of a narration of remarkable events
in the Indian seas, in which an English gentleman of family
was deeply concerned. The publication of this book is
expected to be a valuable addition to Our national sales of
the sea.
The absence of Lord ALTHORP and Lord
JOHN RUSSELL from the dinner given by the LORD
MAYOR, on Saturday last, originated in recent delicate
health, and the consequent necessity of being abstemious
in respect to the pleasures of the table.
instructions have been received at this Cus-
tom-house that all vessels, the crews of which are in good
health, are to he immediately released from quarantine.—
Plymouth Journal. • -
ST. ANDREW'S, HOLBORN.—Yesterday a
meeting of pirishioners took place upon the subject of a
Board of Health. It was proposed to raise a sum of money
on the poor rates, but this proposition was rejected. In
the course of a desultory discussion which took place it
was observed by several of the speakers that the late alarm
of cholera originated with a certain portion of the public
Press.

The late Viscount DOWNE, whose dissolution
at his seat, Colwiek-hall, in Yorkshire, we announced
yesterday. was a NAleinan of most retired habits, gene-
rally residing upon his highly-cultivated estates in the
North. His Lordship was Colonel-Commandant of the
2d West York Militia, and by his marriage, in 1815,
with Louisa. MARIA, daughter of the late GEORGE WEL.
STEAD, Esq., he has left no successor to the title, and the
family.honours therefore devolve on his next brother, the
Hon. and Rev. WILLIAM HENRY DAwxwv. Lord
DOWNE sat in the House of Lords as Baron DAwNAY, in
tie
Peerage of Great Britain, and judging by his vote in
favour of the second reading of the Reform Bill, he was a
Nobleman of liberal politics.

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DATE AND DESCRIPTION OF AUTIIORITY FOR CIRCULATION OF NEWS-
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Clerks of Roads (IS).— £4,030 0 0
Clerks in Foreign Office (16)F 2,749 4 6
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General Post-office, Feb. 10, 1832.

AN ACCOUNT of the Amount of DUTY paid Yearly upon the
FOREIGN BOOKS imported into the United Kingdom during
each of the last Ten Years.
Year 1821 f 1.,967 8 9 Year 1826 £10,765 3 e
1822......„ .. 11,035 711 189,.7 11,13n 2 5
1823. . 15,138 I 5 182, 11,02615 1
1824 17,237 17 3 1829 11,400 8 51
18•'5 ....... .. 17,095 18 6 !630 .......
wm. 1 R .... ;(.-,, lnspeetor-General of Imports and Exports.
Inspeetor-General's-ottice, Custom House,
London, Dec. 21, 1501,