The Sun.
London, England, 1832-05-22 00:00:00

sing of this measure. Was it to he supposed that the
House of Commons, after there was a Reformed Parliament,
would ever be satisfied with any thing short of a cheap Go-
vernment ; and was it to be thought that if there was a cheap
Government, there would not be an end to the Monarchy
Again, as regarded Ireland, he held in his hand a
document, by which it appeared that Mr. O'Connell had
stated that there only wanted to be a Reformed Par-
liament, that a dissolution of the Union might be obtained.
In the very first session after there was a Reformed Par-
liament be would (for he had pledged himself to do so)
bring forward the question of dissolution. Dr. M'Cabe
had also written a letter, in which he exhorted the
people of Ireland to remain quite silent until then
was a Reformed Parliament in England, when all
the corruption and abuses would be swept away, and
when they could not fail to send in their petitions with the
happiest effect. The Protestants of Ireland were unani-
mous in opinion against the expediency of the passing of
the Bill. He was persuaded that if this Bill passed, it must
be productive of a revolution throughout the country.
Their Lordships had been often told of the popular clamour
out of doors, and had often been reminded of the violence
and excitement of the people, with respect to the Reform
Bill. They had been threatened with annihilation if they
did not give way, and allow the Bill to become law. He
could hardly believe it to be a fact that England was now
in such a state that her Peers were to be intimidated from
the performance of their duty.—(Loud cries from the
Opposition.) It had been the proud boast of the British
Constitution that the second branch of her Legislature stood
as a bar on the one hand against the waves of popular ex-
citement, and on the other as a preventive of the en-
croachment of the Crown.—( Cheers from the Opposition.)
If the time should come when their Lordships should give
way in the discharge of their duty, or that they should
show they were acting entirely from intimidation, that
moment would their Lordships become unworthy of the
situation they held, and of the confidence of the country.
He would, therefore, entreat their Lordships to consider well
the very important and awful position in which they stood,
to recollect that the eyes of the country were upon them.
Whatever might be the decision of their Lordships with
respect to this most important measure, he had but one
plain and obvious course to pursue, and he was determined
honestly and fearlessly to pursue it. He had before stated
that he was prepared to support any alterations in
the Constitution of the country that might lead to ulti-
mate good, but according to the declarations that had been
made, they were not permitted in any degree to alter the
Bill which was now on their Lordships' table. The Noble
Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government had
said that the Bill should and must pass. Whatever might
be the effect of that declaration of the Noble Earl, he, as
an independent British Peer, was determined to exercise
that privilege which had been handed down to him by his
ancestors, and would give his vote Not-content to the Bill.
—(The Noble Lord sat down amidst loud cheers from the
Opposition.)
The Earl of MALNIESBURY was exceedingly desirous
of recording the course he intended to adopt as to
the present Bill. He quarrelled with no man's
motives, but he was determined to follow the straight
line which conscience and duty pointed out. Far was it
from him to have expected that a Noble Lord who bad
been a Member of that House for 40 years, would have come
down and stated that it was determined the Bill should be
carried even by compulsion.—(Cheers.) In his opinion the
system of terror which had reigned too long without the
walls of that House had found its way within them. He
could look upon the declarations that had been made in no
other light than as menaces, and to his mind it was equally
a menace whether the majority on the Bill was produced by
subtraction or addition.-( Cheers from the Opposition.) Was
it supposed that the danger which now threatend the country
would be averted by the passing of the present Bill? His con-
science answered no, for to his mind it would only be sus.
pended, and if it was, what then would be the state of their
Lordships' House ? At the present moment a-powerful
part of the community supported their Lordehipa, but
would they do so after they had been guilty of such a
dereliction of their duty as to sanction a Bill that broke
through every barrier of the Constitution? Their Lordships
would lose the good wishes of the first men in the country.
Had it not been for bringing forward the present Bill
the Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government
would have never met with the opposition from that side
of the House, which he had done. After having stated
thus much, he felt anxious to know the principles
upon which schedules A and B had been framed. He
was informed that scientific men said of Lieutenant
Drummond's system that it was based upon a most absurd
view of the ease, and would not at all answer the end
in view ; also that some towns which were in schedule A,
by the returns had the same number of houses, and paid
the same amount of taxes as some that were in schedule
B. He would, therefore, ask the Noble Earl (Grey)
whether his Bill was based upon property or population ?
The Earl of WINCHILSEA rose briefly to say a few
words upon the subject. He rose not as an independent
Peer to deliver his sentiments in that House, for that
morning sun had risen upon it as a debased and degraded
part of the Constitution.—(Laughter.) If his country
had been under the yoke be would scorn the offer of life
at the expense of his character and consistency,
and in the present instance he scorned the
conduct pursued by the Noble Lord opposite, in tramp-
ling under foot the independence of that House. He
would, however, say a few words as to the motives
which would actuate him in the votes he would give
upon t his Bill when the clauses came before the
House ; he would see how far he could go along with them,
and by that he would vote. He would also see how far
he felt it his duty, and by his conscience, he was bound to
vote against certain parts of it. That had been the rule
of his former conduct, and he would still act upon it ; by
trampling upon the independence of that House, the Noble
Earl struck a blow at one of the best institutions of the
Constitution. When the time came when the Noble
Lord was not governed and goaded on by a revolutionary
Press, then would the Noble Earl see the fatality of his
conduct ; then must lie feel the attacks of a remorse of con-
science. The conduct proposed by the Noble Lords opposite
was the most infatuated of which he bad ever heard or
read. He sincerely hoped the hour was not far off when
those Noble Lords would again be at their duty, and rescue
the independence of the Peerage of the country. He would
say no more, but again repent, that he stood there, as be
considered himself, degraded in the eyes of his country-
men—(Great laughter.)—but the time would come when
the abettors of the Noble Earl would find in ruin how
fatal their conduct had been. —(Cheers from the Tories.)
Lord ELLENBOROUGH felt as the other Noble
Lords who had preceded him the rumours which were
abroad as to the present state in which that House stood,
but he saw nothing in those rumours to make him swerve
from that line of conduct which he had b. fore
chalked out for himself. If they proceeded to the
calm, reasonable, and temperate consideration of the
Bill which was before them, the country would
give them that credit for honesty which was their
due, for a time would come when the people,
returning to their reason, would give to those who had
voted against the Bill, but who had only done as they
considered their duty, that credit to which they were
justly entitled,
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY said he would
fairly admit that if he could see by withdrawing opposition
to the Bill no Peers would be made, he would do so.—
( Loud cheers.) He would willingly incur the
lesser evil to avoid the greater. If he could learn
from the Noble Earl that the passing of the Bill would
save that House from being inundated by a creation
of Peers, he for one would withdraw all opposition ;
but the Noble Earl had so clothed himself with an em-
bryo power—(Laughter, and Hear, hear)—which so
concealed his meaning that it was impossible for one pos-
sessed of such a mean understanding as his to find it
out. He was afraid, though Peers might not be made
during the discu-sion of this important Bill, they
would have them soon afterwards falling into that
threes
(Loudiannddribfoleutrss.—at(aLatiumgeh.ter.T)heyThhareeNidtb'e ac
laughter)—would be coming into that House in
rumours out
of doors, and they learned there more than they per-
haps learned within those walls. Those rumours said
that forty-one Peers had been made up, in which the
Noble Earl's own son was included, but those reports also
said that that Noble Lord had refused the honour.
On a former evening, a Noble Lord had threatened
to bring down the Protest of the Noble Duke
and read it to him every night ; but what would be
thought of him if he was to bring down the speech of
the Noble Earl, made on the 13th of June, 1827, in
which be said he would stand or fall by his order 7
(Laughter.) He hoped before the end of the discussion