The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(Tins DAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock.

NEW MEMBER.
Mr. BLACKBURN took the oaths and his seat on his re-
election for Stirling.

PRIVATE BUSINESS,

The Findhorn Railway
.Bill was read a third time and
passed ; the Tweed Fisheries, &c., Bill went through com-
mittee and was ordered for third reading.
On the motion of Mr. FITZROY the following was
agreed to :—" That whenever any private bill, which in
pursuance of any report from the chairman of ways and
means, under standing order 67, has originated in the House
of Lords, shall have been brought from the House of Lords,
such bill, after having been read a first time, shall be re-
ferred to the examiner of petitions for private bills, before
whom the compliance with such orders as shall not have
been previously inquired into shall be proved. That the
examiner shall give at least two clear days' notice in the
private bill office of the day on which the same will be
examined". _

Mr. SALISBURY moved that the minutes of the evi-
dence taken before the committees on the Liverpool Dock
Bill and the Birkenhead Docks Bill in session 1855, and the
Mersey Docks and Harbour Bill in session 1857, be referred
to the committee on the Mersey Docks and Harbour Bill.
—Agreed to.

PETITIONS.
Petitions were presented praying for the rejection of the
Government Reform Bill, and the abolition of church-rates.

CHITRCH-RATES ABOLITION BILL.
Sir J. TRELAWNY moved the second reading of this

Mr. GRIFFITH moved the following :—" That any
amendment of the law relating to church-rates which
should exempt persons contributing to the support of some
other place of worship than the parish church from the
payment of the rate, at the same time that the existing
machinery for the support of the fabric of the Church of
England should be continued in operation upon
the members of her own communion, is worthy
of the consideration of this house." He strongly
complained of the bill being brought before the con-
sideration of the house in a summary and unparliamen-
tary manner. He had no opportunity of expressing his
opinion on the principle of the bill if he did not avail him-
self of the present. The measure was of the most one-sided
character, and the way in which it was hurried on was cal-
culated to stifle discussion. There was a great degree of
intolerance prevalent amongst the dissenting community at
the present time, and he could not see why the compromise
proposed in 1858 should not be accepted in 1859. The posi-
tion held by Dissenters, who supported the measure on the
ground that they were opposed to all state churches, was, ho
contended, most fallacious. It had been contended that all
endowments for cbaritatable or religious purposes were
wrong, but that abstract principle was falsified in prac-
tice, for he had:never heard an of hospital or a chapel having
refused a donation of £l,OOO. (Hear.) He denied that we
lived in a state of abstract Christianity, and he maintained
that endowments were necessary to maintain religious prac-
tice in this country. In his observations he did not wish
to be understood as asserting the infallibility of the Church
of England, for, on the contrary, he believed there were
many points of doctrine which many churchmen would
desire to alter, but that did not at all effect the real ques-
tion at issue. Any person supporting the bill would be
virtually going to the extent of doing away with
the State Church altogether. (" No, no.")
To show the feeling that existed on the part
of Dissenters, he referred to the report of a meeting of
the Society for the Liberation of the Church from the State,
at which the hon. baronet (Sir J. Trelawny) presided.
Sir J. TRELAWNY denied that he was present at the
meeting alluded to.
Mr. GRIFFITH—A letter was read from the hon.
baronet, stating that he was prevented from presiding by
the state of his health; and he wished to know whether
the hon. baronet intended to preside at that meeting ? (Cries
of " Order.")
The SPEAKER decided that the hon. member was out
of order.

Mr. GRIFFITH—To show the feeling that actuated the
Dissenters in reference to this subject, he would quote from
a report of the proceedings at the meeting in question. The
hou. gentleman then read certain extracts from the docu-
ments mentioned, in which the speaker set forth that in
asking for the:abolition of church-rates they had an ulterior
object, and that object, no doubt, was to do away with the
State Church altogether. (Cries of "Divide.") He hoped
hon. members would remember that it was a morning
sitting, especially devoted to the discussion of this question.
(Laughter.) The hon. member proceeded, amid consider-
able interruption, to reiterate the views he had previously
expressed. There was a bill coming from the other house
which was intended to hold forth the olive branch, and it
would be most illogical to agree to the second reading of the
present bill, which would preclude the consideration of any
other measure on the subject. He concluded by moving the
amendment. _ _ _

Mr. S. ESTCOURT said that he hoped the hon. mem-
ber would not press his amendment, because it could produce
no result, and would not give a negative to the bill of the
hon. baronet. He considered that the hon. hart. had acted
most creditably, and had endeavoured to accommodate all
parties. This subject had already been fully discussed,and
he hoped that the house would come to the issue of " aye
or " nay" on the present occasion
Mr. ATEUART intended to oppose the second reading
of the bill, but he objected to the practice pursued by the
hon. member in laying before the house an abstract resolu-
tion as an amendment. He did not think that the consti-
tuents of hon. members agreed in the views of those who
were desirous of doing away with the church establishment,
which would be the result of the adoption of the present
bill.

Mr. GRIFFITH said that in conformity with the wishes
of the house he would not press his amendment.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the motion
was then put to the house.
Mr. A. B. HOPE moved that the bill be read a second
time that day six months. He denied most strongly that

the majority of dissenters were in favour of the abolition of
church-rates, and the movement to effect that object origi-
nated with the " Society for the Liberation of the Church
from all Government Control." The hon. member quoted
an article from the lconconfo »nist, to show that the attempt
to effect the abolition of church-rates was only a means to
an end, namely, the destruction of the State Church. He
also read a pamphlet emanating from the institution in
question calling on Dissenters to oppose the continuance of
these rates. There has been a proposition before them on
a former occasion, which he was happy to find not brought
under their consideration this session. He alluded to the
imposition of a fabric rate. If the Liberation Society suc-
ceeded in their object, the Dissenters would derive no
benefit, and the whole religious system would be placed
under the control of a grinding beaureocracy. That was
the state which prevailed in various parts of the
continent, and their religious liberty was un-
known. He denounced most strongly one of the grounds
in support of the bill, namely, that the maintenance of the
Church of late years had effected so much that these rates
were not required. Was it because Churchmen had made
such noble sacrifices that they should be despoiled of their
ancient and just inheritance.
Mr. DEEDES seconded the amendment. For a con-
siderable time he had indulged the hope that this subject
might be settled on good orounds, but ho almost despaired
of that result, after what had fallen from the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield last session, who
said, "We have a majority, and nothing will
satisfy us but an abolition of church-rates."
He objected to the term compromise being used in refer-
ence to this matter, because it implied the relinquishing of
some principle ; but he was ready to give the Nonconfor-
mists some equivalent for the hardships of which they com-
plained. He admitted that they (the Nonconformists) had
ground for complaining of the manner in which church-
rates had been applied, and he was ready to con-
sent to an amendment in the law in regard to that
point. He proposed to give the churchwardens the
same powers as overseers of roads and other bodies pos-
sessed, and empower them, without going to vestry, to levy
a small rate during their term of office for carrying on the
repairs of the church.
B. OSBORNE considered the time for compromise
had gone by. He denied that the agitation on this ques-
tion was fictitious, and he quoted the words of Dr. Lush-
ington, when examined before a committee on the subject,
who said that he had an experience of 40 years in reference
to the agitation, and that it was increasing in intensity
every day. (Hear, hear.) He asked the house whether
any hon. member considered the state of the law was satis-
factory ? Had not the house been tinkering with the sub-
ject for the last 20 years, and introducing bills that were
rejected? To show that there was no ground for appre-
hending any danger to the fabric of the Church from the
abolition of the town of Boston, when the collection of those
rates lead almost to a rebellion of the inhabitants, but when

the impost was discontinued large sums were sub-
scribed towards maintaining the Church in a state of effici-
ency. When no less titan £3,000,000 was subscribed in
Scotland towards that object, when the voluntary principle
prevailed, was it not an insult to the people of England to
suppose that they would not provide for the maintenance of
their churches ? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. WOItTLEY said he considered that there was
only one remedy for the sore festering in the public mind
by these rates, that of excision. (Hear, hear.)
[LEFT SPEAKING.]

LOCTIEND-HOUSE, Dunbar.—On Friday the man-
sion of Lochend, near Dunbar, one of the seats of Sir
John Warrender, was destroyed by fire. The fire was
discovered at about 11 o'clock forenoon, and evidently
originated in an attic room, but such was the violence of
the wind, that in a comparatively short time the whole
building was enveloped in flames, and the fire engines from
Dunbar only arrived in time to find that all efforts to
save the building were useless. The house was an elegant
Elizabethan structure, about thirty years old, and was
occupied at the time by Mr. George Warrender, younger,
whose lady had a few days previous given birth to a
son and heir. The mother. and infant were removed on
the first alarm to the coachman's hi.use, preparatory
to being conveyed to Warrender Park, Edinburgh. By
the exertions of the servants, firemen, and others who
were attracted to the spot, the greater part of the valuable
collection of paintings, the plate, Mrs. Warrender's jewels,
and several large and splendid mirrors, were saved ; but
nearly the whole of the costly furniture, an immense num-
ber of ornaments and articles of vertu, marble tables, &c.,
were either consumed by the flames, or broken by being
thrown out, often through the plate-glass windows, upon
the lawn below, where the ram, which came down in tor-
rents for some hours, completed the work of destruction, in
the case of many of the articles which otherwise had escaped
damage. In less than two hours the mansion-house was
reduced to a total ruin. The loss is estimated at £20,000
or £30,000, which is to a considerable extent covered by in-
surance.

NEW GOVERNMENT OFFICES AND COURTS OF LAW
—A Government bill, under the care of Lord J. Manners,
M.P., and Sir S. Northcotc, M.P., empowers the Commis-
sioners of Works to acquire a site for additional public
offices near Whitehall and " her Majesty's Palace at West-
minster." The property to be purchased, in order that a
site may be acquired, includes houses and yards in St. Mar-
garet's parish, in Crown-court, in Lower Crown-street, in
King-street, in Charles -street, and in Duke-street. Last, not
least, however, the schedule includes certain " steps or
ways," " a gravel road," and an " enclosed lawn" in St.
James's-park, in the "occupation" of the Crown. Where
these may be situated—no map being appended—we have
no means of ascertaining. The Commissioners are required
to make geed to the parishes of St. Margaret and St. John
th,e Evangelist, Westminster, the deficiencies in their
rates. A second bill provides' for the acquisition of a site
for the Court of Probate, and the registries, &c., connected
with it. The property hi the schedule to be dealt with for
the purposes the Act lies in Bennett's-hill, George-
court, pper Thames-street, Helmet-court, Addle-hill,
Meat Xnightrider-court, and the College of Advocates and
Doctors of Law.