The Sun.
London, England, 1835-07-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 8.

Lord DENMAN took his seat on the Woolsack at Five o' Clock.

The Duke of RICHMOND gave notice that on Monday
next he should move the second reading of the Bill relative to
Charitable Loan Societies in England and Wales.

PRISON DISCIPLINE.

The Noble DUKE then laid upon the table the third Report
of the Select Committee appointed to inquire into the disci-
pline of the several Prisons in England and Wales, which was
ordered to be printed.
Mr. Alderman WOOD and others from the House of Com-
mons, brought up the Worcester Infirmary Lease Bill, the Argus
Life Insurance Company Bill, and the Stretton Enclosure Bill,
with the Lords' amendments, to which the House of Cornmons
had agreed. Also a Bill for consolidating the laws relative to
the recovery of small debts, to which the House of Commons
desired the concurrence of their Lordships.
The Small Debts' Recovery Bill was read a first time.
On the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND, their Lord-
ships then adjourned.
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HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 8.
The SPEAKER took the chair at half-past Three o'Clock,
when there were about twenty-eight Members present. Alen:-
hers, however, continued to drop in, one by one, till the Speaker
had counted thirty-eight. At this moment there was a gene-
ral rush of Members from the galleries and the lobby, and the
Speaker ascended his chair amidst cheers and laughter. _
CARLOW ELECTION.
The SPEAKER informed the House that lie had received
a notice from the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland, stating that
a petition had been lodged in that office, complaining of the
return at the last election for the county of Carlow. A day
was fixed for taking the petition into consideration.
DE TRESSAN'S NATURALISATION BILL.
On the motion of Mr. Alderman WOOD, this B►ll was
read a third time and passed.
HOLYHEAD AND SHREWSBURY ROAD BILL.
On the motion of Sir H. PARNELL, this Bill was read
a third time. _

Mr. .1-lALLYBURTO.N brought up the Report of the
Committee upon the Newtyle Rail-wa✓ Bill.

' CORPORATION REFORM.
Captaiw BERKELEY rose to .present a petition from the
city of Gloucester, against that clause in the Municipal Cor-
poration Reform Bill, which took away the rights of free-
men. The petitioners complained that those rights having been
so long enjoyed, and having been confirmed to them by the
Reform Bill, it would be extremely unjust to deprive them of
those rights under the name of a Reform of Corporations. He
concurred most heartily in the prayer of the petition, which
was signed by 500 out of the 700 freemen of Gloucester, and
he trusted that when the Report upon the Municipal Reform
Bill should be brought up, this petition, and the others of a
similar nature, which had been presented, would have due
weight with the House.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. Alderman WOOD rose to present a petition from Glou-
cester, which was also signed by 500 individuals of that city,
amongst whom were the names of a considerable number of
freemen ; the petition was very strong in favour of the great
measure of Corporation Reform—(Cheers)—and spuke in the
highest terms of satisfaction of the Government which brought
it forward. He was sure that the Gallant and Hon. Member
who had just presented a petition would support him, when he
stated that the greater number of the names attached to this pe-
tition were of the highest respectability. The petition, as he be-
fore stated, contained the.s.ignatures of a considerable number of
freemen. There were some circunistances connected with the
petition presented by the Hon. Member (Captain B.) which
he thought it would be only just in the Hon. Member to
have stated. The Hon. Member must know that a con-
siderable number of the persons vi ho had signed the peti-
tion which he (Captain Berkeley) had presented, wore
children in one house (as we understood) • four children
bad signed the petition as children.---(Cries of?" Hear, hear.")
He understood there was another petition to be presented
by the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Hope), and what the
complexion and object of that petition was, he (Alderman
Wood) did not know—( A laugh)—he supposed, however, as
the petition of the Hon. and Gallant Member contained the
signatures of .500 freemen out of the 700, and as his (Alderman
Wood's) contained the signatures of a considerable number,
(he did not know the exact amount of freemen), he presumed
that the petition to be presented by the Honourable Mem-
ber (Mr. Hope) would contain the signatures of all the
other freemen. He only hoped there would be no boys
amongst them.—( A laugh.) Whether this petition should
breathe the same expression as that presented by the Hon.
and Gallant Member, or a different one, he hoped and trusted
that it would not prevent the House from carrying to its full
and legitimate length the principles of this Reform Bill,—
( Cheers.) There-was one point to which he wished to call
the attention of the House. The boundaries of the city of
Gloucester bad been fixed by the late Reform Bill,
and the petitioners were very much alarmed lest they
should be taxed doubly—namely, with the county rates and
afterwards with the borough rates. He thought it right to call
the attention of the Noble Lord, the Member for Stroud, to
this point, and he trusted that it would be attended to. In all
other respects, as this was a liberal Corporation and a liberal
body of freemen, he hoped they would not press upon the
House to alter in any respect the Bill as it stood.
' Mr. HOPE had not yet received the petition alluded to by
the Hon. Member for London, but he expected it dailv •
s P
lie thought the petitioners had a very strong tight to express
1 their opinions upon the Bill which had excited very great alarm
he believed iu the country.
Captain BARCL AY explained that the petition was signed
by only 100 adults, and the rest were boys.
VOTE BY BALLOT,

Mr. EW A RT presented a petition from Liverpool, signed by
uraarcia-V 7,000 persons, in favour of the Vote by Ballot. The
petitioners! stated their firm conviction that the • Reform Bill
could never effectually be carried into effect, unless the vote by
ballot was conceded. The Hon. Member also presented a pe-
tition against the monopoly in the Beer trade.
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN presented a petition from a
person named Doyle, residing in the county of Wicklow,
against the act called Perrin's Act.
Mr. A. TREVOR presented a petition from the Treasurer
of the city of Durham against that part of the Reform Corpo-
ration Bill that deprived them of their rights. The lion.
Member thought the measure, as it respected the rights of
freemen, unjust ; and trusted that his Majesty's Ministers
would sec the necessity of making very material alterations in
the Act as it at present stood upon that subject.
Dr. BALDWIN presented a petition from a Roman Ca-
tholic priest, in the county of Cork, praying to be allowed to
vote out of his Ecclesiastical freehold.
Mr. SPEIRS presented a petition from the Western dis-
trict of the county of Stirling, complaining of the conduct of
the Sheriff of that county in having violated one of the princi-
ples of the Scotch Reform Bill, by ordering the polling to
take place at an insignificant spot.
Mr. HE ATHCOTE presented a petition from Tiverton,
in which the petitioners stated that they did not concur in any
of the statements contained in the petition presented by the
Corporation of Tiverton on a former day, and praying for the
passing of the Corporation Reform Bill. Also one from
the Trustees of the Tiverton Turnpike Trust, against a clause
intended to be moved by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough
in the Highways' Bill.
Mr. RICHARDS said be bad so framed his clause as to
meet the wishes of the petitioners.
BONDING WAREHOUSES.

Mr. WALL ACE presented a petition from Greenock,
complaining of the Treasury minute affecting the bonding
warehouses.—( Hear.) The laws on this subject, as they
bad been settled in 1822, had worked very satisfactorily, and
to the benefit of the out-seaports, and that without any
hurt to the London Docks, or any others in the port of Lon-
don. There was a mistake abroad relating to this Treasury
Minute—many thought that it only extended to Scotland, but
he could assure Honourable Gentlemen that it would extend
to every port in the three kingdoms, and most seriously
affect them all. Commissioners had been sent by the Go-
vernment to examine into the state of the warehouses in the
out-ports, and nothing like an allegation had been made,
that the revenue had suffered in the slightest degree ; on
the contrary, a greater decrease had taken place in the bonded
warehouses of the London Docks than in the out-ports._
If the Treasury minute was allowed to take effcct, the House
might rest assured that it would be contrary to the spirit and
meaning of the law. It appeared to him (Mr. Wallace), that
the arrangement had not been made with that openness of
propriety which should characterize the conduct of a Govern-
ment. There had evidently been an unfair leaning to the
Joint Stock Companies of the London Docks in this Trea-
sury minute, and which had deprived the out-ports of those
privileges of which they so justly complained.—(Hear.)
The Hon. Member concluded by announcing his intention to
move for a Committee for Inquiry into this subject, and that

necessary he Should divide the nouseupon the question.

Dr. B6WRING presented a petitia;-i to the same effect
from the Provost and Bonding Warehouse Proprietors of tho
port of Glasgow, and expressed his concurrence in the
remarks of the Honourable Member who had just sat
down. He thought that while there was no proof of
damage and injury of the Revenue, Government had not made
out a case to justify this House, in interfering with the rights
of private property.
SPIRIT LICENSES.

Mr. WALLACE also presented a petition from Fife
against the present post-horse duty, and another from Mr.
James Stevenson, of Greenock, complaining of the' conduct
of the local Magistrates in refusing to grant him a spirit li-
cense. He hoped that a clause would be inserted in the Cor-
poration Reform Bill to take the rower of granting licences
out of the hands of Justices of the Peace, for it was a source of
great injustice, as well as-a disagreeable duty to perform.
Mr. R ICH ARDS supported the motion.
TAXES UPON KNOWLEDGE.
Dr. BORING presented a petition from Dean Richards
of Aberdeen, praying that the Bill for uniting the two colleges
of Aberdeen, might not pass. Also a petition from Lestock
imploring the House no longer to delay the removal of the
taxes upon knowledge.
TIMBER DUTIES.

Captain PEC HE L L rose to present a petition of very great
importance, signed by a very numerous body of the merchants
and traders as well as ship-owners of the different ports of
Sussex. The petitioners stated that they heard with deep re-
gret that a Select Committee was sitting for the purpose of
assimilating the timber duties upon timber imported from
the Colonies and the Baltic. They expressed their
conviction that any change of the duties which would
limit the supply of timber trom the colonies, or raise the cost,
would operate most injuriously. They stated that, notwith-
standing the assertion that the Colonial timber was inferior
in quality to that imported from the Baltic, they were ready to
prove that the red pine was alike in quality in all countries, and
the yellow pine was only to be got in the Colonies. The petition

was most numerously and respectably signed ; and he mo d
that it be referred to the Select Committee then sitting on the
subject.

IRISH CHURCH REFORM.
Major BE AUCLERK held in his hand a petition which he
had been entrusted to present to that House, and of which
he took the liberty yesterday evening of giving notice.
The petition was one of considerable importance. It was from
the borough of Reigate, in the county of Surrey, and out of
160 of 101. voters in that borough, 105 had signed that peti-
tion. The petition prayed that the Corporation Bill then
before the House might be brought to a speedy result ; and,
also, that a Church Reform should take place in Ireland.
They considered that the large Establishment maintained in
that country was an insult to the people of Ireland, and a de-
gradation to the people of England. They considered that
Ireland was the only country on the face of the globe that
was insulted by a Church Establishment differing from the
general religion of the people. Amongst all our colonies
we had never attempted to impose upon them a religion dif-
fering from the religion of the people. In Canada, indeed,
we had attempted it, but the attempt was not borne with, and
the Church in that country was now Catholic. At all events
they supported their own Church, but not out of the re-
venues of the State. He was one of those who main-
tained that whilst it was right to pay the Clergy, and he
was himself willing to pay them amply, he would never
agree to insult the Catholics by seeing a handful of Protes-
tants keep up a large Establishment which was not at
all in accordance with the religion of the people. This was his
opinion, and unless this principle were carried out, they would
never, and ought never,' to give satisfaction to that country, The
Government would certainly not give satisfaction until the
Protestant' Church should cease to be kept up in that country,
to insult the religious feelings of the country. This, he was
sure, was the feeling of the great majority of the people, and
be could tell the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Freshficld) who
threatened him with being thrown out in the next election,
that that declaration had given great pain in the county of
Surrey—it proved nothing, and only tended to bring on per-
sonalities. He would again state that the petition presented
by his Hon: Colleague (Mr. Alsager) on a former day against
the Irish Church' Bill, had not the support of one-tenth of
the inhabitants of the comity which he represented. He
was convinced that the great body of the people differed
from that petition—the petition which he then held in his
hand proved this, and several other petitions would be
shortly presented from the same county in support of the
measure of Irish Church Reform before the House. He
would give that measure his warmest support.
Lord EASTNOR said if the statements of the Gallant Offi-
cer were founded in fact, it was a matter of regret to him to
differ from a considerable portion of those whom he had the
honour to represent, but he believed that pains had been taken
to create excitement on political subjects iu that part
of the county of Surrey latterly. The petitioners ex-
pressed a wish that the Municipal Reform Bill might be
carried through the House as it was originally proposed.
lie had not opposed the principle of the -Bill, because he
thought it was necessary that it should be established ; but he
could not go the whole length of the Bill—many of its clauses,
in his opinion, going too far. He was as anxious as any man
to support the Bill, as far as he believed it was consistent with
good, but he would support it no further. With regard to
the Irish Church Bill—that also, in his opinion, went
too far ; be thought, and had always done so; that the
Established Church should be duly maintained, and he would
not support or adopt any measures that would destroy the
efficiency of that Church in Ireland ; but, at the same time,
he was as anxious as any man to adopt improvements that
would be consistent with sustaining that Church. When the
Bill was discussed, he should feel it to be his duty to do
that which he thought would be for the interest of the
country. With respect to the English Church he was willing
to admit that there were many things that might be altered,
and any alterations for its good he would always be found
ready to support, but in doing so he would always maintain its
efficiency. With regard to what the Gallant Officer bad
stated as having fallen from the Hon. Member for Penryn, he
he did not feel himself called upon to make any observation.

Mr. FRE S lIFIELD could assure the Hon. and Gallant
Member that in any observations he had made, he meant no-
thing uncourteous to him. He had, however, a little
mis-stated what he had said ; what he had stated
was, that if he continued to advocate the prin-
ciples he avowed that night, he would only have to
await another - election to see whether his constituents
would sanction it or not. He believed that those
wilts:, thought differently from the Gallant Officer were
not worthy of the appellation he had given them, of
wrong-headed persons. The Gallant Officer had been elected
by the Conservatives of the County of Surrey—(Hear, hear,
and cries of " No, no," from Msjor Beaucterk)—they had
thought him the better member of the two reform candidates,
and therefore they had paid him the compliment of electing
him as one of their representatives, a compliment which he
( Mr. Freshfield) believed he highly deserved.—( Hear, hear.)
The Honourable and Gallant Officer bad said that many of his
constituents had expressed their astonishment at the statements
made by him (Mr. F.), to the effect, that if he pursued the
same line of conduct 98 he was then doing,-he would stand
some chance of having their confidence Withdrawn. On the other
hand, be ( Mr. F.) had received the thanks of a public meeting,
for his conduct in the House. He assured the Gallant Officer
that he did not find fault with him in en ill-natured manner or
spirit, but merely meant to give him a kind caution—
(Laughter)—which a constituent might do to his repro-
sent ative.
Mr. DENISON would not trouble the -House upon the
subject, but having. been the representative of the Eastern
Division of Surrey, he must 'Say that he, not having been pre-
sent when the Learned Gentleman made his statements, read
them with a great deal of astonishment; and he would ask the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman what opportunities he had of
learning the sentiments of the constituency ? He was not in
the Commission of the Peace, nor did he attend their meetings ;
he had lived in the county for a very short time, and as he
( Mr. D.) had understood—he resided in the Western Division.
He certainly was much surprised to hear the Learned Gentle-
man say that the Hon. and Gallant Officer was returned by
the Conservatives. He (Mr. D. ) decidedly denied that statement.
Ile was returned by a strong and influential body in the county,
under the name of Reformers, which he trusted would yet

increase. He hoped when the Hon. and Learried Member
returned to his pure and immaculate borough of Penryn—
(Loud cheers and laughter)—he would meet with as cordial
a reception as the Hon. and Gallant Officer was sure to re-
ceive from his constituents.

Major BE AUCLERK said he had been twice returned
for the Eastern Division of Surrey. The first time he went
into the field in the last week—he spent no money, or almost
none, and he would ask the Hon. Gentleman opposite how
many thousands were spent on the other side ? And yet he
was now told he was returned by the Conservatives !__
( Hear.) He had always openly expressed his sentiments
upon the hustings, and he would be very much pleased
if those sentiments had gained hint the support of the
Conservatives.—( Hear, hear, hear.) On the hustings he
had stated openly he was a strong advocate for Church
reform—a strong advocate for a thorough reform in the Irish
establishment-4 Hear, hear)—and yet lie was now told that
he sat there as the representative of the Conservatives in the
county ! He knew there was a strong party of Conservatives
among his constituents, who had hoaestly voted against him,
but he believed that the great body of the constituency were
honest, well-meaning Reformers. He would like to ask whe-
ther he had the honour of the support of the Hon. and Learned
Member ?—( Laughter.)
11r. WILK S said he had gone down to Riegate to support
the Honourable and Gallant Officer, and he therefore was one
of his constituents who admired the manliness of principle
exhibited by him, and he promised him his support upon the
next occasion. _ _