The Sun.
London, England, 1835-09-01 00:00:00

one-sixth class of rate=payers, who paid the highest amount of
rates, he thought it to be one to which, if it stood alone, great
et!jeCtion might fairly be taken.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
If these twoqualifieatZms' toWeVer, were joined, it might be
thought to ;,„a eohsideriAhly to the *bore tliqo xlicl,tenkt
12.3 eligible te lye 'eletted to the teiVe-Ctint*ff. If; in Addition
to this ehari.s,re, a tianse Were intriielneed lh conformity with
the suggestion which lie hail already offered in that House,
that the candidates for the council should be required not to
SiSlsiergo an examination into their pecuniary affairs before the
revising barristers (an ordeal whleli sooner thati litibmit to,
they would, he believe& not Wish to bectint t 'iiiinsPillor§ et
all), hut to make sislered InsieAd of suffering an
inquisition into their preperty—if these changes were made,
he repeated, they would, he thought, be likely to answer ins
views of all parties.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the
tolls, the Noble Lord complained that a great set of injustice
had been done to the House of Commons lay the ainendnir3iit
introduced by the House of Lords If etiy one bad a right
to complain of these alteration's it was he ( Sir Robert Peel)
for the Noble Lord had read an extract from a speech of his
which was very accurate, and which conveyed lib tipiniong in
at least as good language as he tetild express them, and the
Noble Lord admitted that the principle of the appropriation
of tells Was there clearly laid down, and should have been
adopted. The House of Lords, IMlVeveri ttefe not tit the
same opinion ; and he could contrientionsly say, that the
change which they had eireeted hi this part of the measure
he did not consider to have cast the slightest reflection upon
him,—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He thought it wholly
unnecessary to impute, as the Noble Lord had done) injustice
to the House of Lords because they had altered the preamble
of the Bill for reasons which they Stated, and in conformity
with their views on the subject of tolls, amongst others. He
really did not feel so extremely sensitive as to Impute to the
Heine of Lords an act of injustice to that House, mid desire
for spoliation, because they made alterations le that part of
the Bill which the Noble Lord stated to be in perfect keeping
with his (Sir It. Peel's) expressed opinions.—( Hear, hear.)
" I hope I may be allowed to say (continued the Right Hon.
Baronet), in perfect good humour, that I
tailliot help enter•
taining a slight suspicion that the eohlthetitt of the Noble
Lord on this part of the amendments introduced by the House
of Lords were made by way of compromise with some of his
more ardent supporters, and that he conceived that three or
four hard words spoken of Sir Charles Wetherell and of the
unjust preamble of the Hottso of Lords, wekild reconcile these
Gentlemen to the adoption of the propositions which he laid
down when they found the Noble Lord so exceedingly vi *o=
roue in his denunciation of the other House of Parliament.' --
(Cheers and laughter.) With roped tti the rights of frees
men, the House of Lords),
,he found, totili a different
from the majority of that MOO, He was perfectly willing
to admit, (as he had already said in the speech quoted by
the Noble Lard,) that in many instances he should not
object to the resumption of property by the Corlinichialty,
taking especial care that every legal and vested interest
sho4id in the most oaritpulous degree, be protected. He
quite agreed, too, with the Noble Lord, that after giving
compensation to individual interests, or even by buying up
the tolls, if necessary, every member of a trading community
should be placed upon a perfect equality in all commercial
concerns.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord proposed to alter the
clause which confined the power of appointment to benefices
under the control of the Corporation to members of the Estab-
lished Church. There he totally differed from the Noble
Lord--( Cheers from the Opposition)--and while he consented
to the adoption of the principle that no distinction in point of
religion should be made where any secular office was in guess
tints, or where civil rights, or rights of trading, or any thing
In the nature of civil employment Or emolument were con-
cerned, vet when the qualification of the ministers of the Church
of England is the matter to be determined, if the right was
to continue in Corporations it was only proper and just to re-
serve it to the members of the Church of England who be-
longed to that body.--(Opposition cheers.) And he could
not, for the life of him, see the slightest reflection on the Dis-
senters in disqualifying them for deciding on the capabilities
of a minister of the Established Church.—(Renewed cheers.)
A cry of want of toleration was raised against this principle ;
but really there ought to be toleration towards the Church
of England as much as to the Dissenters.---( Cheers again.)
He could not help expressing that it was his belief that
this toleration was unilateral, and he ventured to say, that
if certain chapels belonging to Presbyterians, Unitarians,
or Independents, were endowed in this country, and that it
was proposed that the choice of their ministers should be
vested in them, it would be denounced as a proposition of
the grossest intolerance, and it would be most justly and fairly
charged against him that he had no right whatever to appoint
Ministers of whose qualifications he could not possibly be a
competent judge.—( Continued cheering.) This was an amend-
ment which when proposed by him in that House, even the
Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin assented to.
The Noble Lord too, who he believed took an active part in
those discussions respecting the veto, must recollect those
passages in Burke in which he referred to the members of
one church deciding on the qualifications of the Ministers of
another, and of the control over the Greek Bishops ex-
isting at Constantinople, and the general principle which he
laid down was, that dissentients from that church could
not have the same interest in securing good 'Ministers ;
that they had not the same means of judging of their requisite
qualifications ; but above all that their appointments would
never challenge the respect or win the affection of the great
mass of the members of the Church over which such a power
was exercised.—( Cheers.) He believed he had now referred
to most of the important points in the Noble Lord's speech, and
he should not have felt justified in taking up the time of the
House on matters of detail, particularly when there would be
in all probability a separate discussion on each amendment,
if the Noble Lord had not taken a collective view of the
whole of them : a course which he felt compelled to follow.
He could not conclude without expressing an anxious hope
that the perfect independence which they claimed for them-
selves would be willingly extended to others, and that all '
being at perfect liberty to consider these amendments, they
might arrive at the desired conclusion, that in the present
session of Parliament this question should be finally settled.—
( Cheers.) He believed it to be the prevailing and unanimous
wish of the country, so wearied by political discussions and
dissensions, that this measure should pass as to be law. They
might depend upon it, that in supporting another branch of the
Legislature in its independent character they would best pre-
serve their own character for dignity. The points on which
they were at variance were comparatively immaterial; the great
principles of popular control and annual election were approved
of by both branches of the Legislature.—( Cheers.) After
the Bill having been sent down by the House of Lords, if this
question were not now settled, it must be settled in the course
of the next year, and in his conscience he believed that the
measure would prove the more satisfactory to the inhabitants of
the whole kingdom if it were asserted now, and thus prevent
that excitement and those party differences in every town in
which it was intended that a new municipal body should be
established.—( Cheers.) There was an additional reason for
the settlement of this question There were many clauses
in the Bill which, perhaps unnecessarily introduced, led
many of the existing corporate bodies to believe that a
serious eneroachment on their rights would be attempted ;
and the consequence was, that an opinion prevailed—which
he considered to be one of great injustice to these bodies—
that they would oppose any aggression upon their rights and
privileges. This impression, though he had no doubt unfor-
tunate, was an additional reason why this settlement should
be made. Under these circumstances, his first wish on that
occasion was, that they should uphold the perfect independence
of the House of Lords, with the same zeal as they would de-
fend and protect their own privileges ; and, if his second hope,
that he might be somewhat instrumental in promoting an ami- •
cable settlement of this question, were realized, and if he
should effect that object, he should certainly not regret his
presence at their deliberations that night.—( Loud cheering
for some minutes. )

Mr. HUMS, after complimenting the Right Hon. Baronet
on the concessions which he had made in his speech, said that
there was one principle on which he should join issue with him,
and that was with respect to the right of Dissenters to nomi-
nate Ministers of the Established Church to the benefices un-
der the control of the Corporations. He could never consent
to the Bill while it contained this provision, for it was but re-
newing the Test and Corporation Acts after they had been
long abolished.—( Cheers.) Was it not monstrous that Dis-
senters should be excluded from the power of nomination to
such benefices, when it was notorious that a Dissenter might
purchase an advowson, and nominate whom he pleased to it ?
( Hear, hear, and cheers.) He, for one, was for throwing out
this Bill with the amendments which had been introduced into
it, because he considered these amendments to be made
in utter defiance of that House, and from a determination
to resist the wishes of the people.--( Loud cheers.) The
people must eventually have full satisfaction given to
them on this subject. If the Noble Lord wishes to give them
satisfaction in the present instance, let him restore the clause
in the Bill which declared that there should be no qualifi-
cation. It was not with him (Mr. Hume) a question between
one kind of qualification and another. He was convinced
that there was no mode of qualification whatever which
would not be open to insuperable objections. What did his
Majesty say in his speech from the throne ? Did he not, ad-
dressing both Houses, express his hope that such measures of
reform would be adopted as would give satisfaction to the peo-
ple ? Now did any one suppose that this measure, such as it
was proposed to make it, would give satisfaction to the people ?
He told the Right lion. Baronet that it would not; and he
greatly regretted, therefore, that the Noble Lord had gone so
far with his concessions. He was especially opposed, how-
ever to the qualification, and he hoped that the original
clause in the Bill'would be carried by a large majority. They
who were desirous that the Bill should be effective, should
not stop until they had rendered it so. Why were a body of
irresponsible persons like the House of Peers to oppose
the just rights of the people ? What qualifications had they?
Was it property, or what? If they had no qualifications
themselves, why did they throw obstacles in the way of the
present measure, by insisting on qualifications in others ?
The Peers seemed determined to tread on the rights of mil.
lions who were anxious to maintain what the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet had called a mixed and balanced Government. For
the present was only one of the instances in which they had
shewn their hostility to the rights and privileges of the people.
If every measure of reform were to be treated in this measure,

and thrown out by the House of Lords, he begged to ask the
Right Hon. Baronet what opinion the House of Lords could
expect the people to entertain towards them ? If such a course
were persevered in, it would not be long before the people
would demand a reform of the other House of Parliament.
Were the House of Commons to reform themselves, and was
the other House of Parliament to remain entirely unreformed ?
He had supported his Majesty's Government as long as Iv
could, consistently with his sense of duty to the people ;
if they resisted the rights of the people—if they resist out
pular reform —what could they expect from him? 'r '4d
pass in its present nnitilated and impaired st- }pi the
ll': would. be
. _