The Sun.
London, England, 1835-06-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, JUNE 20, 1835.

the facts connected with the suggestions and the concession
by Lord Eliot, and he thought they fully supported his view
of the fair and generous spirit in which this most humane and
beneficial treaty was effected.—( Hear.) For himself, he had
no wish to interfere in this matter, either to raise a question
or to bring these papers before the public ; but he felt, if
any discussion was to take place on the question of the new
Order in Council, it ought, in justice to all parties, to be
brought on as soon as possible, when, he had no doubt, it
would be fully admitted that the convention was, in its ori-
gin, as honourable to England, and creditable to the individuals
who accomplished it, as it was beneficial to all parties in Spain.
Mr. C. PELHAM rose, but was for some time inaudible,
in consequence of Members leaving their seats. When first
heard he was understood to be arguing against the principle
of interference in the civil wars of neighbouring States, and
the danger of establishing a precedent for foreign interference
in England. What, he would ask, would Oliver Cromwell
have said if Louis XIV. had claimed a right to interfere to
protect the Royalist prisoners taken during the wars of the
Commonwealth, when England was struggling for liberty ?
(Laughter.) As he had mentioned the name of Cromwell,
be must do him the justice to say that he had humanely inter-
posed to protect the French Protestants who had been driven
from their country. In conclusion, he must own that this
convention appeared to be undertaken in a spirit of humanity
that claimed the approbation of all enlightened men, and as
such he must concede it the praise it deserved.
Colonel EVANS could not see the necessity which existed
for the present motion. The Members of the late Govern-
ment did not think it necessary to call for the production of
any papers to vindicate their characters respecting the objects
they had in view in the formation of the convention. Neither
did the present Ministry attempt to arraign those motives, or
to cast any blame on the conduct of the Commissioners who
executed it. On the contrary, they had given their pre-
decessors unqualified praise for this portion of their foreign
policy. There was, therefore, a perfect coincidence of opinion
on this subject between the parties in England whose charac-
ters and interests might be chiefly affected by it. For my
own part, said the Gallant Colonel, I at first felt somewhat
uncertain what had been the effect of this measure in Spain,
and made anxious and particular inquiries with respect to its
operation on the parties whose conduct it was intended to in-
fluence. I have now, however, great pleasure in stating that,
from all I can learn, the conduct of the Noble Duke through-
out the negociation has been marked by an entire fidelity to
existing treaties—(Hear, hear)—to the honour of England,
and the obligations she had entered into relative to the recog-
nition of constitutional liberty abroad.—(hear, hear.) I now
feel convinced that he has pursued a sound and faithful as well
as a benevolent policy in his late measures adopted towards
Spain.—( Hear, hear.) If there has been anything that can
fairly be complained of in connection with any part of the
transaction, it is the subsequent indiscretion of a gallant
acquaintance of mine, relative to a reported conversation with
an illustrious individual abroad, as stated in the newspapers.
I have little doubt that the opinions and sentiments attributed
to these individuals are much distorted in the statement which
appeared • but, however that may be, no blame attaches either
to the Noble Duke for the spirit in which he originated the
convention, or to the Commissioners for the manner in which
they carried it into operation. On the contrary, the conduct
of both is the just theme of approbation amongst those whose
opportunities of observing its effects on the spot entitle them
to every confidence.
An Hon. MEMBER (whose name we could not learn)
congratulated the House that the question had been brought
forward, as it had elicited so much to be approved of in the
conduct of those who had the management of the humane ne-
gociation, as well as the honour of England in their hands.
He was inclined to give credit to Lord John Russell, for his
motives in withholding the papers referred to at this crisis. Tt
was highly gratifying to find the successors of those who had
filled the most important trusts coming forward to vouch for
the integrity, honour, and regard to public faith which their
predecessors had evinced in the discharge of their duties. In-
deed, it was a subject .f just congratulation to Engliahmen that
whatever changes it might be found necessary for his Majesty
to make in the administration of the affairs of this great coup-
try, one feeling was found paramount in all who enjoyed
his
confidence—to maintain public faith abroad as well as at home.
In relation to the present struggle, he must express his sur-
prise that the atrocities of such a civil war had been suffered to
continue so long. He felt that it was a duty incumbent or
all civilized men to interfere for the repression of such cruelties
as had lately been perpetrated, and he had, whilst resident
the Court of Spain, lent his best tnsif,tance to the efforts wirc-l:
the humane and influential ;-riends of Spain we:T making f.:r
her amelioration. Ile trusted that those who had now assunled
the reins of Government would net leave that unforttinc.te
State to suffer unheeded the miseries of civil war, but wool,'
vtill further bring the beneficent inlaenee of this country to
bear on its condition, and, if possible, restore it to peace and
tranquillity.
Mr. O'CONNELL rose and said—Sir, I submit to the
Hen. Member for Finsbury the propriety of withdrawing his
motion. The convention, it is admitted on all hands, hf:s
proved exceedingly beneficial ; every one must regret the
barbarities which have been practised in that unhappy contest.
and must rejoice that any arrangement Las been made thu
means of saving human life. As not only the Queen of
Spain's Government, but those Spaniards who were opposed
to it have declared their perfect sati..f.tction with the conven-
tion, I do not see how any one in this country can fairly claim
the right of objecting to it.
Mr. DUNCOMBE then withdrew his motion, expressing
his intention to leave the matter in Lord John Russell's hands
and trusting that, as the Noble Duke and his friends had m
objection to the publication of the documents in question, hi:
Lordship would favour the public with as many of them as
possible.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, who spoke in a very low tone,
which was partly intercepted by the Chair from our end of the
Gallery, was understood to express his assent with respect to
the publication of whatever portions of the correspondence
might, on examination, appear not to be likely to inconvenience
the public service ; and, with respect to the subject of the late
Order in Council, he would be happy to settle an early day
with the Noble Lord opposite (Mahon) for its discussion.
LABOURING POOR—DISTURBANCES.
On going into the Committee of Supply,
Mr. A. TREVOR rose to move " That there be laid before
this House copies of any information his Majesty's Govern-
ment may have received relative to the recent disturbances
among the labouring poor in the parish of Ampthill, in ties,
county of Bedford, Cheshain (Bucks), and East Bourn
(Sussex)." He stated that he was not surprised at the dis-
turbances which had taken place la these parishes, and that it
was the opinion of the Magistrates of his county that more
might be expected. It was evidently most important that an
inquiry should be instituted into the causes that produced such
disturbances, and had created such a serous alteration for the
worse in the temper and disposition of the labouring poor. It
would be most useful as a guide to the Magistrates in their
proceedings for the restoration of tranquillity, and it should be
remembered that the Magistrates were themselves most desir-
ous that a full and public investigation should be entered into,
as one of the best means of effecting a good understanding
amongst the poor of the parishes.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that at present there would be a
difficulty in granting the information required ; and suggested
that, as the report of the Poor Law Commissioners would be
laid on the table before the end of the month, it would be
better to wait for its appearance, when the entire subject of the
disturbances, and the proceedings thereupon, would be fully
and regularly submitted to the House. As far as he could
learn, the character of these disturbances was comparatively
trifling—arising for the most part out of the excitement caused
by poor women and children, who exclaimed against being
obliged to receive food instead of the allowances in money
they had previously obtained ; and in every instance the distur-
bances had been put down by the local police and special con-
stables, without the aid of any other force.
Mr. A. TREVOR hoped the report of the Commissioners
would prove satisfactory to the county Magistrates, and
afford the information required. The Hon. Member then with-
drew his motion.
ABOLITION OF SLAVERY.
Mr. F. BUXTON rose to move for a Bill to suspend the
payment of the 20,000,0001. for one year; and for a Com-
mittee to inquire whether the provisions of the Bill for the
Abolition of Slavery have been complied with ? He was aware
that he might expect considerable opposition to his motion,
and he would at once admit that the honour of the country was
..? pledged, and its best interests committed, to the payment of
the 20,000,0001., if the planters had fulfilled the conditions
imposed on them, and fulfilled the promises made on their side.
Now, he was prepared to show, first—that the terms of the
agreement had not been fulfilled by the planters : and, se-
condly—that no excuse or apology was to be found in the con-
duct of the negro for the planters' breach of faith. He would
first request the attention of the House to the prediction of
interested parties relative to the workings of a society of
which he was a member, who were designated by them as fire-
brands, and whose proceedings for the abolition of slavery
would only lead to confusion and rebellion. Mr. A. Baring
had predicted that in two years the measure would inevitably
cause a total depreciation of the wealth and greatness of this
country, that we should find manufactures extinct, commerce
withered, ships rotting in the docks, and sugar doubled or trebled
in price. He should like to see the President of the Board of
Trade in his place, to inquire if this prediction had turned out a
true prophecy. Further, that a diminution in the consumption of
tea would attend the increased value of sugar, and that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer would lose 6,000,0001. a year of
the national revenue ; and, in conclusion, that this country
would lose only her American colonies, but the West Indies
themselves, in which the planters were threatened with
" speedy devastation, loss of life and property—a shock to
public credit," &c. In reply to all this, he would state the
facts, that on the Ist of August the boon of abolition had been
gratefully received by the black population of the West In-
dies—that no blood had been shed—that no outrage had oc-
curred throughout all the colonies—that scarcely a drunken
man was to be seen—and that the negroes, left to themselves,
abolished their Sunday market as the first-fruits of their free-
dom. I had been asked rather tauntingly (said Mr. Buxton)
when examined before a Committee of the House of Lords in
1832, " Suppose Emancipation were granted, what would
happen then ? How soon would the negroes go to work ?" I
replied, " Next week, perhaps." Lord Sligo was then sit-
ting beside me. He ha= since written home, " The day after
the abolition ( Saturday) was a holyday. On Monday the ap-
prentices turned out to work with their usual alacrity, and
with more good humour than ever." I was questioned as to
the dangers of rebellion, and I replied, " That the planters
might possibly rebel, but the danger is not with the negroes."
What does Lord Sligo say in confirmation ? " The negroes
are everywhere quiet, unless where disturbances are occasioned
by the intemperate conduct of planters and overseers." I
have been asked how shall we get over our difficulties in the
management of the black population, and I have answered—
" Throw them upon their own resources—appeal to the mo-
tives that govern man in all situations—if you want him to


4.44-

work for you, pay him encouraging wages—if you wish him
to live at peace with you, treat him kindly—if you wish him
to improve his condition, educate him."—( Hear, hear, hear.)
With regard to the tranquillity of the negroes, he defied any
man to say that the result had been contrary to that antimi-
pated by the friends of negro emancipation. At Antigua, so
quiet were the negroes during the month of August, 1834,
that the Governor felt no hesitation in leaving the district for
some time, and at last Christmas, a period at which for the
previous one hundred years it was invariably found requisite
to proclaim martial law—so peaceable and quiet were the
emancipated negroes that no such precaution was requisite,
and the Christmas passed off in the utmost harmony and good
humour. Another fact in connection with the state of An-
tigua he ought not to pass over. He was informed by a Cler-
gyman who officiated for a considerable district of that colony
that where, before the passing of the Emancipation Act, there
were fifteen marriages celebrated within the year, there were
now within the same period 146. Again, not a single crime
of any atrocity
had been committed by the emancipated ne-
groes, while, as it was quite unnecessary for him to inform the
House, they were of constant occurrence before that event.
During the discussions upon the Bill it was frequently said that
the Legislature ought to give the negroes a taste for the luxuries
and elegancies of life before they proceeded to their emanci-
pation. Now he was happy to say that the result of their not
attending to this suggestion had been anything but unsatis-
factory, and he would illustrate his assertion by reading to the
House an extract from a letter of a friend in Antigua. This
gentleman applied to the negroes on his estate to know if
they desired any clothes to be purchased for them? Their
answer was that they preferred waiting a short time to see
what were the latest Engiish fashions, in order that their
dress might be made to correspond to them. The Hon.
Member then proceeded to read a variety of documents,
tending to show that, while the amount of the produce since
the passing of the Emancipation Act had in some districts
increased so much as forty per cent., the amount of labour
required for the land decreased in the same proportion—
deducing from this circumstance a contradiction to the as-
sumption that the labourer could not be made to work
without force being employed. Again, nothing could be more
satisfactory than the accounts respecting the general good con-
, duct of the negroes since emancipation. That body bad in
fact refuted all the calumnies uttered against them, and rea-
lized the warmest expectations of their most sanguine friends.
But the question was, had justice been done to them by the
planters ? His opinion was that it had not. There was
scarcely an instance in which the promises held out to the
negro population had been redeemed, the West India Legis-
latures having set themselves to work to undo and thwart all
the kind intentions of the British Parliament. One of the
Acts of the Jamaica Legislature went so far as to prevent the
man whom the English Parliament designated as free from
walking on the King's highway without risking punishment,
and in express terms forbade him even from visiting his wife.
He complained much that the acts of the Colonial Legishi"-
tures had not been laid before House, in order that, before the
money was paid to the planters, it might be ascertained how
far they had acted up to their agreement. Had the promises
held out to the negro population respecting the stipendary Ma
gistrates been fulfilled ? The Noble Lord who introduced the
Emancipation Act promised that the Stipendiary Magistrates
should not be connected with local interests, and yet he foiled
that in one district out of the eight, five special Magistrates I
were connected with planters. In another district an individual
connected with the Church union, the character of which was
well known to the House, was appointed a stipendiary Ma-
gistrate. In another, an individual who underwent a tiial
for the death of one of his negro slaves, and who, although
acquitted of the offence, the Government of the day found
necessary to dismiss from the Council, was appointed a sti-
pendiary Magistrate. Thera was another paint to which the
attention of the House ought to be directed—he alluded to
the nature of the punishment inflicted on the female popu-
lation. In the island of Tobago since the passing of the
Emancipation Act a female slave had been publicly whipped.
In consequence of these circumstances a meeting of the Spe-
cial Magistrates was held, and the Antigua Advertiser ne,; 5-
paper stated that a proportion of about five or six to two
the Special Magistrates present stated that they knew the
punishment to be illegal, but that they were resolved to inliiet
it, some from motives of humanity, as they averred, and
others because they said the Court of King's Bench south
take no cognizance of their acts as Special Magistrates. Ali
this, notseithatending• the remonstrances of the Solicitor-Ge-
neral. The Hon. Member then went on to state that the gag
was used as a punishment; also the bilhoes ; either of whien
any overseer might inflict for the space of an entire night, at
his pleasure ; while insolence, on the part of the negro—
which before a Committee of the House had been defined
looking the overseer in the face—was punishable by the Act
before him with twenty-nine lashes. Yet the planter for
cruelty, injustice, injury, or other wrongs done to the negro,
was only amerced in a fine of 5/. curreney, about 3/. is. 11J.
sterling. It was true the regro had a power of entering a
process in the superior Courts, but it was very ques-
tionable whether the power conferred any substantial ad-
vantage. All he (Mr. Buxton) wished was, that th
bargain which had been concluded between this country
and the planters should be fulfilled, that there should be
no taint of slavery remaining before the money was paid
them. He had not the slightest wish to throw any impseii-
:rent in the way of the payment of the money, lie eely wished
that House should take such precautions before it was laid I
as would prevent the possibility of a repetition of such acts es
he had recited, or the relapse of the West Indies into the
same condition, as regarded punishment, which it was in be-
fore. Indeed, he was not quite sure that the negroes would
bear it patiently if it were persevered in; and he was col:-
firmed in that doubt by letters, which stated that the cruelty of
the overseers, if continued, would be likely to drive the slaves
into open rebellion. He had been induced to bring forward
the motion before the House in. the hope that the attention of
the Government would be called without delay to the subject,
and that the session would not be permitted tc pass without,
something being done to ameliorate the condition of the poor
negroes. He was prepared not to sacrifice one iota of the li-
berty of the negro ; while, at the same time, he did not desire
that the planter should be a single shilling out of pocket. He
only wished justice to be done to all parties, and the intention of
the Legislature in passing the Act of 1834 to be carried into
full effect. Not that in many instances he did not believe that
more compensation was made than the slaveowner was really
entitled to, an:l ene case, which he had on the authority of a
a Gentleman of the utmost veracity, he should relate to the
House. It was that of a planter, who wanted two domestic
servants, going to the market in Trinidad and purchasing them
at forty dollars each. A few months subsequently the Act of
Emancipation passed, and he became entitled to 1001. for them.
The Act of Emancipation had been proved to be a wise as well
as a humane and a just measure. In the island of St. Vincent
(as we understood the Hon. Member) land had increased in
value since August, and a greater quantity was now in cultiva-
tion than before. He believed it was the same in the other
islands. He also thought the compensation clause a perfectly
just and fair one ; but he deemed that lie should not discharge
his duty if ho suffered the one party to have all the benefits
while the other had none. It was therefore he brought forward
his motion, not wishing to let the session pass without ascertain-
ing what could be done to prevent such a conclusion. The
Hon. Member then moved, " That a Committee he appointed
to inquire whether the conditions on which the sum of twenty
millions had been granted by that House to the slaveowners in
the West Indies had been fulfilled, and to report thereon."
Sir G. GREY gave his Hon. Friend the fullest credit for
the purity which dictated, and the humanity which framed,
his motion (from the original notice of which he begged to
remark that he had considerably departed), but stated his in-
tention, notwithstanding, of voting against it, on a principle of
public duty. The proposition of his Hon. Friend, in point
of fact, was, that the payment of
_the twenty millions granted
to the slave proprietors in the West Indies should be sus-
pended until the Committee which he had moved for should
have made their report. No he ( Sir G. Grey) would ask the
House, supposing that the Committee should be appointed,
when was it probable they would be able to make their report?
Was it at all likely to occur in the course of the present session
of Parliament ? Could any reasonable hope be entertained
that they would be able to make such a one as would be
satisfactory to that House and the country in any time within
the compass of fairness ? Should they be empowered to in-
quire into the local laws of the several colonies, as well as into
the conduct of the planters and Special Magistrates ? To
effect the purpose contemplated by his Hon. Friend, he appre-
hended they should. - In that case, would it be possible for
them to come to any decision until they had first had commu-
nication with the West Indies, and had given the accused
parties an opportunity of entering on their defence. Other-
wise it would wear the appearance of injustice. Under these
circumstaaces, it would be utterly impossible for them to make
any report this session of Parliament ; and a year would thus
be suffered to elapse before the money voted last session would
have been paid. But, setting this aside, he ( Sir G. Grey )
would ask, were the isolated acts of individuals—even of one
entire colony—to be made the grounds of withholding pay-
ment from all the rest ? Were the facts to be taken all
from one side, without any reference to those on the other ?
Was the payment of 20 millions to be suspended because a few
persons had acted badly?- He did not doubt the accuracy of
the statements made by his Hon. Friend. Facts had occurred
in the West Indies since the Ist of August, which wero a dis-
grace to human nature. But they were only the exception,
and not the rule. They were not the acts of the whole
slave-holding population, but of a few individuals. The Eman-
cipation Act could not change the nature of a people ; it could
not make those who were still entrusted with a considerable
degree of irresponsible power, less likely to abuse it than be-
fore. It could not change the whole face of civil society in
the West Indies. But it effected what it had been mainly
enacted to effect. How was the opinion of the Parliament
which passed that measure, respecting a similar motion of his
Hon. Friend ? That Parliament, in two divisions, negatived
it. He ( Sir George Grey) hoped the present Parliament
would never assent to it. It would be punishing all for the
sins of a very small proportion ; it would be depriving all the
colonies of the benefit of the compensation awarded by the Act
for the crimes of one or two. For instance, he would take
Antigua and Bermuda. These islands had discarded the ap-
prenticeship clause altogether, and given unqualified freedom
to their slaves : did his Hon Friend mean to suspend the pay-
ment to these as well 03 all the rest? If he did, how could
he prevent the injury which would accrue to them from the
suspension? In fact, the proposition of his Hon. Friei'd was
simply a motion to make the LegWature recede from a bar-
gain solemnly made, and a contract solemnly entered into.—
(Hear, hear.) It was to induce them to turn round on the
planters and say, " You have fulfilled the conditions imposed
on you, we have not paid you as yet, and we will not pa-,
you now, unless you comply with other conditions whieb
we mean to impose on you in addition."—( Hear ) If the
motion of his Hon. Friend were acceded to, the Legisla-
ture of Great Britain would be fairly chargeable with breach
of contract—a charge which he hoped he should never
live to see made, still less substantiated against it,—( Hear,

hear.) While he joined with his Hon. Friend in express-
ing his horror and detestation of the acts of cruelty and
oppression which he had related to the House, he trusted that
he should never attempt to vindicate either at the expense of
the national faith—( Hear, hear)—that faith which he never
had seen, and which he hoped he never should see, tarnished.
—(Hear, hear.) While he said this, he did not mean to say
that all checks on the planters should be removed ; but he
trusted that he should be able to show his Hon. Friend that the
Government of the country had the strictest eye upon the
conduct of the society of these colonies, especially in respect
to their slave population. He would undertake to pledge
himself for the present Government that the strictest inves-
tigation should be made into all the circumstances of every
case stated by his Hon. Friend, and every other case pro-
perly adduced, and the fullest justice should be done to all
parties. When his Hon. Friend had come to the Colonial
Office to him (Sir George Grey) and asked whether he had
any objection to produce these papers, he had replied in the
negative ; and finding there was no means of supplying them
in London, he had sent to the West Indies for all requi-
site information. This he stated as a proof of the readi-
ness of the present Government to promote every inquiry,
and to redress all grievances which should be satisfactorily
proved to exist. As to the probability that, subsequent to
the payment of the money, the same course of conduct would
be pursued as before, he (Sir George Grey) saw no grounds
to apprehend any thing of the kind. The Governors of
most of the colonies were gentlemen not at all disposed
to acquiesce in any acts of the local Legislatures which
would have such an end for their object; and he needed, he
was sure, only mention the names of the Marquis of Sligo in
Jamaica, Sir Lionel Smith in Barbadoes, and Sir Carmi-
chael Smith in Demerara, to be borne out by the House in
his supposition. Besides, though the Governor had no con
trouling power over the local Legislature, no act of theirs
was binding or of force until it had received the sanction and
assent of his Majesty in his Privy Council. All the circum-
stances prevented effectually what his Hon.' Friend appeared
to fear so much. He ( Sir G. Grey) could never sanction the
principle of the motion made by his Hon. Friend, because
it was not alone repugnant to justice, but to the- spirit in which
the Negro Emancipation Act was framed. In the debate on
that measure the present Earl Spencer, then Chancellor of
the Exchequer, had said—and the Noble Lord the Member
for South Lancashire, then Colonial Secretary, had reiterated
it—that the dik,vners of slaves were entitled to receive compen-
sation from the moment the Act came into operation. The
motion of his Honourable Friend went to negative that
assertion by the most direct mode—suspending payment.
At least he hoped that his Hon. Friend would exclude the
six Crown colonies from his sweeping measure. He ( Sir
George Grey) would at all events put in a claim in behalf of
the Cape of Good Hope, a colony which, to its praise let it
be spoken, had made no distinction between predial and non-
predial slavery, but had indiscriminately abridged the term of
apprenticeship to all by a period of two years. Surely his
Hon. Friend would feel that there was a necessity to ex-
empt the colony of the Cape of Good Hope from the views
which he took of this subject in general. The island of
acaica had conformed to all the conditions upon which
the grant had been made to the slave proprietors, and
the engagement to pay had consequently been made to them
by his Majesty's Ministers. It was but due to those who hcd
preceded the present Ministers in the Colonial Department
to say that the course they had taken upon this subject had
met with the approbation of the present Government. No
subject had been more forcibly pressed upon the attention
of the Colonial Legislatures than the necessity of carrying
into full effect, all the previsions of the Act of the Impe-
rial Parliament, and they had in general given an assurance
of their intention to carry the measure into full operation. In
December, 1832, the Earl of Mulgrave had been the median
of communication between the Government at home and the
Legislature of the Colony of Jamaica The Noble E •rl,
whose character was so highly appreciated by all who knew
him, or who had any knowledge of public affairs—(hear,
hear)—had been preseet in the island, and well knew what
was then the spirit and temper of the colonists, and therefore
Ministers at home were bound to attend to his communications,
and to consider the advice he gave with reference to the Nets
that had been passed by the local Legislature. The Noble
Earl had written to the head of the Colonial Department
to say that a Bill had passed through the House of Assembly
in Jamaica, except the last stage, which gave effect to the
Art of the Imperial Parliament, and that he entertained no
doubt that the Bill would travel through its whole progress,
and be finally passed into a law. He added that he had used
every endeavour to bring forward such a measure as would
enforce the British Act, and that would fully develope the
duties which that Act had left to be performed by the Co-
lonial Assemblies. The majority of the HOuse of Assembly,
the Noble Earl had added, had fully entered into his views,
and the Government at home would not have the slightest
reason to complain. Such had been the evidence of the Earl
of Mulgrave, who had been teamed the friend of the negro
race, by the people of Jamaica. His (Sir G. Grey's) prede-
cessor in office had replied to the earl of Mulgrave in praise
of the liberal spirit that had actuated the House of Assembly,
and after a lapse of six weeks, a despatch had been sent
out, saying that his Majesty's Government had made the
declaration that the compensation ought to be paid to the slave
proprietors of that colony.—( Hear.) The subsequent con-
duct of the Legislature of Jamaica had occasioned that sug-
gestion of the Home Government that had been alluded to,
upon all points but two, to which the Marquis of Sligo
had thought it not practicable for the Colonial Legislature to
accede, owing to the local circumstances of the island. The
people of that colony, therefore, were to be dealt with as a
people zealous in bearing out the provisions of the Emanci-
pation Bill. He would agree with his Hon. Friend that a
certain recent Act did not show any zeal on the part of the
Legislature of Jamaica ; but still he felt himself bound to
distinguish between the Legislature of that island and a
vast number of the most respectable inhabitants of the island.
But this last Act to which he had referred had no reference
to the payment of the money, and it was upon other grounds
that it had been objected to by Ministers. It was in fact the
object of Ministers to do away with all distinctions of colour
or complexion, and to consider all colonists as equally the sub-
jects of the Crown.—(Hear, hear.) He could not but add,
that the Act that had been passed by the local Legislature to
inflict a punishment for insolence, was perfectly consistent
with the Act of the Imperial Parliament. But in Barbadoes,
Nevis, St. Kitts, Dominica, and Montserrat, Acts had been
passed, which had not been deemed sufficient to entitle those
islands to a payment of the 20,000,0001., and, accordingly,
the Acts were returned to the colonies, not with the Royal
assent, but with the comments of Ministers upon them, and
some of these colonies were at that moment considering the
amendments, and no decision had, therefore, as yet been
made with respect to any payment to those colonies. A de-
spatch had been sent to Barbadoes that the Act•which had
been passed by that colony was not deemed satiefactory by
the Colonial Department, and it had been added that until
that Act should be rescinded no grant could be made ; and,
therefore, he would contend that his Hon. Friend could upon
this point have no foundation whatever for complaint against
his Majesty's Ministers. He would contend that the Hon.
Member for Weymouth had made out no case whatever
against his Majesty's Ministers, and no case to induce the
House to consent to a proposition that the island of Jamaica
was not deserving of the decision that had been come to in
ins
favour. His Hon. Friend had failed in making out a ma
which would warrant the House in taking out of the hands of
Ministers the power they now possessed; he had made out no
case upon which he could introduce any Bill on the subject ;
and his moving for a Committee was therefore only an expe-
dient to catch a few stray votes, as many Hon. Members
might be induced to vote for a Committee that could not be
brought to vote for a Bill.—( Hear.) At the present moment
many and important engagements had been made on the faith
that Government would hold inviolate its pledge to pay the
money in the ensuing autumn. The constituents of the Colo-
nial Assemblies were crying out for the money, and it was
therefore to be supposed that they would press upon their re-
presentatives the necessity of passing the Bill, which would
enable the money to be paid. With respect to the question of
the Stipendiary Magistrates, he fully admitted that the
powers of these Stipendiary Magistrates should be con-
fined to strictly impartial men ; but he must say that
,
a most grievous miscalculation had been made with re-
spect to the number that were requisite to carry into
effect the objects for which they had been appointed. Only
one hundred Magistrates had been provided for by the Act,
and it had become necessary for the Governors to select
men resident in the colonies to supply the deficiencies.
The Governor of Jamaica bad taken care that no person
should be placed in the Special Commission that was not
disposed to carry the Act of the Imperial Parliament into
operation. The Colonial Secretary had written to the 'Mar-
quis of Sligo, to direct him to select for the office men en-
tirely free from any local bias. With respect to the other
colonies, it was true that representations had been made of the
inefficiency of the Stipendiary Magistrates; but Lord Glenelg
had felt that Parliament would not sanction the appointment
of the Stipendiary Magistrates being in the hands of the
planters, and a circular letter had been sent to the colonies,
ordering that the Special Commissions should be withdrawn,
where the Special Magistrates were of this description.—
( Hear, hear.) Orders had been given that, in filling up va-
cancies, men should be selected who were not planters or slave
proprietors, but persons as free as possible from all local pre-
judices or bias whatever. With respect to the cases that had
been brought forvvard. from the newspapers—the case, for in-
stance, of administerm.g punishment to females—it had been
referred to the authorities at home, and in the meantime the
Governor had remitted the punishment on his own responsibi-
lity. He hoped the House would refuse its sanction to the
appointment of the Committee. No good could arise from it.
It would only tend to unsettle the existing state of things, and
disturb that calm that at present prevailed so beneficially for
all interests. He hoped the Hour would pause before they
took this dangerous step, which might produce consequences,
which he was sure his Hon. Friend would be the last to wish
to see realized.—( Cheers.)
Mr. BUCKING HA M said that he was glad to hear what
had fallen from the Government upon this subject. He was
happy to find that the colonial Magistracy was to be purified,
and that the torture of women was no longer to be permitted.
From the explanations that had been given on the part of the
Government, he no longer considered that the appointment of
a Committee was necessary ; but then he thought it good and
useful to have the subject occa?ionally discussed. By recent
accounts from the West Indies it appeared that all the condi-
tions on which the twenty millions were granted had not been
fulfilled. Dr. Madden, who had been one of the Stipendiary
Magistrates at Jamaica, came away from there in disgust from
the persecutions he suffeeed, because he was Ltermined to do
his duty in an English spirit. He had testified since his arrival
home to two instances of flogging women, one of whom was
labouring, at the time she was tortured, under an attack of
paralysis, and the other was also afflicted with a terrible disease.
• Mr. CLAY entirely concurred in the opinion that tl'e
, ' House had a perfect right to know how the twenty millions

they had voted were applied, and that all the arrangements
that had been stipulated for were faithfully fulfilled. Bad faith
on the part of the local legislatures in fulfilling the conditions
on which the grant was made was the only ground for with-
holding the payment of that grant, and he was bound to say
that the speech of his Hon. Friend (Sir G. Grey) had fully
exculpated them from any disposition to deviate from good
faith since the Emancipation Act had been brought into opera-
tion; and he thought from the spirit in which the present Go-
vernment had acted, they might fairly be entrusted with the
woruing out of the details of the measure. He hoped, there-
fore, the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Buxton) wonld not press his
motion to a division.
Mr. 0' CONNE L L implored his Hon. Friend to with-
draw his motion. Every object which the motion was directed
to had been amply answered.—( Hear, hear.) The Speech of
the Hon Secretary for the Colonies was perfectly satisfac-
tory, whether he considered its general ability or the lucid
order of its arrangement, or, above all, the emancipating spi-
rit which pervaded it.—( Hear.) Some abuses must exist
everywhere. It had been complained that a woman was shot.
A dreadful outrage certainly ; but was there not a man to be
hanged to-morrow for stabbing a woman? He had been ori-
ginally opposed to the grant of twenty millions, but he was
now bound to say that it had been amply repaid if the law
were worked out in the spirit of the speech they had that night
heard on the part of the Government.—( Hear.) Would his
Hon. Friend (Mr. Buxton)—and there never was a greater
friend than he was to the oppressed of every colour and every
clime—(Cheers)—would he wish it to go abroad among the
negro population that he, their best friend, considered them
still as an oppressed race ? No man, he was sure, would re-
gret more than his Hon. Friend if any acts of outrage were
the consequences of such an impression. He had no doubt
that the present Government would carry out the details of
the measure with a benevolent and determined spirit, and he
could not therefore vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend,
if he pressed it to a division.
Mr. F. BUXTON said that facts had certainly been com-
municated that night to the House of which he was not before
aware. The powerftd speech of the Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site (Sir G. Grey) and the emancipating spirit that belonged
to it were highly satisfactory : but the part that gave him (Mr.
Buxton) the greatest satisfaction was the determination ex-
pressed in it to purify the Magistracy. After the strong de-
sire that had been manifested by so many friends who were, he
was sure, as warmly attached to the cause as he was himself,
that he should not press his motion to a division, he would,
with the permission of the House, withdraw it.—( Cheers.)
He should do, so, however, on the understanding that the Go-
vernment had pledged themselves to see the whole of the condi-
tions on which the House voted the grant fully and faithfully
performed.
The motion was then withdrawn.
WAYS AND MEANS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
Order of the Day for going into a Committee of Ways and
Means on the sugar duties.
Mr. C. F ERG US SON said he would take that opportu-
nity of presenting a petition from the East India Company,
praying for a reduction of the duties on East India sugar. This
colony had peculiar claims to relief; for while it did not cost
one shilling to this country—while it paid even the expense of
the armies by which it had been conquered—it sent over an-
nually to this country no less a sum than 3,200,0001. To
enable her to do this the fiscal duties, which were 501. per cent.
heavier than on any other colony, must be altered. The duty
on East India coffee was ninepence, and only sixpence on that
of the West Indies. The duty on English cotton goods im-
ported was only two-and-a-half-per cent., while it was ten on
the manufactures of India imported to this country. The duty
on India silk goods imported was twenty per cent., while on
those of England sent to India it was only two-and-a-half.
The c_msequence was that the cotton manufacture was entirely
ruined, and hundreds of thousands driven to want.—Ordered
to lie on the table.
Mr. CRAWFORD presented a similar petition from the
merchants of London. He recommended that the growth of
coffee should be encouraged in Ceylon and the Mysore.
Mr. BUCKINGHAM supported the petition.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would reserve what he had to say in reference to these peti-
tions till the House was in Committee.
The SPEAKER having left the Chair,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
on accepting office it became his duty to take into considera-
tion this very important question of the Sugar Duties. He
was in the first place desirous to ascertain, from sources in
which he could place the utmost reliance, in what state this
question had been left by the late Government, and what were
their views with respect to it. There Was a report that they
intended to leave those duties in their present state for ano-
ther year ; and he endeavoured to ascertain whether or not
such was the case, because the present was not a time when
any expectations that might have been held out ought to be
disappointed. Great and serious inconveniences might arise
if one Government were to disappoint expectations that had
been held out by the Government immediately preceding it.
From inquiries made by him he collected that no positive
engagement was entered into upon the question, and that the
Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) considered himself per-
foctly free to deal with the subject. It was his duty also to
state, upon this occasion, that the impression conveyed to the
agents of the West India interest here was that the duties
would not be disturbed this year. He saw these gentlemen,
and they told him, that, so far back as March last, they had a
!:retty certain assurance the duties were to be continued for
this year. This they communicated to their correspondents
abroad, so that the impression was now prevalent. He trusted,
from the spirit which was manifested in the previous debate of
that night, that no step would now be taken to prejudice the
West India interest, so far as it was involved in these duties.
Under all the circumstances he felt himself called upon to pro-
pose the continuance of them. He admitted fully the weight
of the observations of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Fergusson),
and the necessity of doing justice to India. An attempt,
therefore, to maintain these sugar duties permanently was a
task he would not undertake, and he trusted that even in the
course of the present session he would be able to state what, in
his opinion, ought to be done with respect to them. The
House was perfectly free to deal with the coffee duty, and in
the course of this session a proposition would be submitted to
the House, for equalizing the duty on East and West India
coffee. In proposing the sugar duties now, it was not to be
understood as conveying any pledge of their continuance, for
he did not despair that, even in the present session, some-
thing might be done upon the subject. The West Indians,
however, should have time allowed them for considering what
was to be the future state of the law in this respect. ;i
not support these duties on principle, but merely with r: c• •
once to present circumstances, and in consideration of V.e
communications made by the West India agents here to their
correspondents abroad.
The question being put, that the present sugar duties be
continued for one year,
Mr. E WART said after the frequent discussion of this sub-
ject it was but reasonable to hope that it would now, at length,
be finally disposed of. He understood • that the late Govern-
ment was pledged to the equalization of these duties, and he
considered it derogatory to the present Government not to re-
deem that pledge.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained.
He stated distinctly tbat the late Government gave no pledge
upon the subject, and that a contrary impression was produced
on the minds of the West India agents.
Mr. E WART said that he was led to think as he did from
knowing that the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) was
friendly to the equalization of these duties, and expressed
himself to that effect last session. The reduction of the duties
on East India produce was an old pledge. In fact it formed
part of the last Bill by Which the affairs of the Company were
settled, and it was the understanding at the time they voted
20,000,0001. for the abolition of West India slavery. The
Member for the Tower Hamlets (Dr. Lushington) said it was
only on that condition he voted the money. The consequence
of these and the other duties on East India produce was to
prevent the extension of capital and commerce. When more
capital was engaged in the commerce of India he believed
that the cultivation of cotton would next be attended to, and
by all accounts it would be a successful speculation. This
was not an Indian question alone but an English one also, both
the English consumer and the English capitalist being consi-
derably interest. Reduce the duties, and you reduce to the
English public some of the first articles of comfort and conve-
nience, while you also furnish an opening for the increased
employment of capital. He derived great satisfaction from
the announcement of the reduction of the coffee duties, and
so much reliance did he place upon the pledge which the Right
Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given to act upon
his (Mr. Ewart's) principles in regard to the sugar duties,
that he should not press his motion, unless urged to it by those
Hon. Gentlemen who were more extensively acquainted with
commercial subjects than he was.--( Hear. )
ivir. HUME advised his Hon. Friend not to press his

motion.
Mr. BAG SHAW hoped that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would give a distinct pledge on the subject of the East
India duties.
Mr. A. CHAPMAN expressed his opinion that the inte-
rests of shipowners and shipbuilders would be promoted by the
reduction of the sugar duties.
Lord SANDON trusted that Government would make an
early declaration of their views, that the West Indians might
know what they had to expect.
Mr. P. THOMSON thought that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had given an assurance sufficiently satisfactory
when he statod his concurrence in the principles laid down by
the Hon. Member for Liverpool. He regretted to learn from
the Hon. Member for Kircudbright (Mr. C. Fergusson) the
great decrease in the supply of cotton from the East Indies,
but he hoped that the prevailing distress Would be relieved by
the increased commerce and employment of capital which the
opening of the East India markets and the improvements in
the tenures of land were expected to produce. As to the hope
of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, that the numerous duties
on East India produce might meet with a speedy consideration,
he could only answer that there were o;dy four such duties,
viz. those on sugar, coffee, spirits, and tobacco. The duties
on tobacco could not possibly be relinquished, in! consequence
of the deficiency which would be occasioned in the revenue ;
the removal of the ditties on spirits would be of no material
benefit; and, with regard to the remaining two, he appre-
hended that further discussion was not necessary.
Mr. PEASE spoke in favour of a reduction of. the sugar
duties, and regretted that it would not take place this year.
Mr. OSWALD thought that, as so many Hon. Gentlemen
were agreed that neither advantages nor disadvantages would
arise from the measure, there was no immediate occasion for
eqtr;lizitie- the duties.
Mr. NiA RB URT 0 N thought that the effect o: the measure
would be advantageous to the East Indies, though it would not
be to the West Indies. He thought the present time afforded
the best opportunity to make the experiment, as the competi-
tion between free labour existed in both countries. He wished
for a clearer explanation on the subject, and desired to know