The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-22 00:00:00

of negotiating a scheme to which it had never given any
assent. Such a course it would not be proper for us to
take. 'But if there was in any country a feeling of dissatis-
faction and alarm, and a feeling existed that the presence
of England would make a peace more solid and satisfac-
tory, then it would not be unbecoming in this country
to interfere with the other powers of Europe to pro-
mote a satisfactory arrangement. His hon. friend had
said that we ought to make some arrangement with France
with respect to diminishing the duties upon French produce.
He (Lord J. Russell) believed that so far as the Emperor of
the French was concerned, be would be willing to diminish
the protective duties, which he (Lord J. Russell) believed
did more injury to the people of France than they did to
any other power of Europe. But he thought it would be a
dangerous and useless thing to enter into a discussion upon
that subject. They might in so doing induce that party
which, though weak and almost no longer existing in Eng-
land, was strong and powerful in Franee—the protection-
ists—to urge upon their countrymen that we were endea-
vouring to injure their industry for our own benefit. He
remembered when this matter was brought before Sir R.
Peel, who was at first inclined to think that diplomacy
might interfere, but he ultimately gave it as his opinion
that we ought to take that course which we believed would
be most advantageous to ourselves, and let other countries
follow us when they were convinced of the policy of the
step we had taken. He should, therefore, be sorry to make
this a matter of diplomatic intercourse ; the more so as he
believed the Emperor of the French would, as far as he
could, promote the views which were in accordance withthe
policy which we believed to be the true one. He trusted
that neither that which was passing from day to day, nor
that which had passed in another place, would awaken feel-
ings of jealousy in any foreign power, but that the Govern-
ment might always be able to point to the representatives
of the people in that house as in favour of the maintenance
of peace throughout the world. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON did not wish to prolong the dis-
cussion, but he could not remain silent without noticing
what had fallen from the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr.
Disraeli), the more especially as it had already been more
than once stated in that house. The right hon. gentleman
repeated that which had been stated the other night by the
late Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, viz. that he (Lord
Palmerston) had said that the present ministry had nothing
to do but to follow the policy of their predecessors with regard
to foreign affairs. Now, he said no such thing. That which
he had stated was that, so far as the question of neutrality—
so far as the mere entry of England into the hostilities which
were now going on was concerned, the Government were
determined to follow the course of their predecessors. But
so far from from giving them an unmitigated approval, he
had expressly condemned the manner in which the late
Government had conducted their foreign policy, on account
of the leaning which they had exhibited towards Austria
and against France, and the insinuations which they had
thrown out more than once that England might be forced
into the contest, and that if she were so, it would not be on
the side of the allied powers of Sardinia and France. In his
opinion the foreign policy of the late Government was in
this respect faulty, and that was his opinion still.' He had
no doubt that the Government acted with the best inten-
tions, that they had acted in accordance with what they
thought right to the best of their ability. But it could not
be denied that the language of the late Government was,
upon all occasions, that of encouragement to Austria, and of
defiance to Amoco. The meaning was in truth this—that
in the event of England being drawn into the war, an event
not improbable, the Government would take the side of
Austria. Now he believed that had the Government taken
the opposite course, had they intimated a leaning adverse to
Austria, the actual breaking out of hostilities might have
been avoided. He (Lord Palmerston) felt constrained to
say this much, for the right hon. gentleman opposite had so
often come down to the house with flourishes of drums and
trumpets en this subject, that it was incumbent on him to
place with clearness before the house what were the views
of the present advisers of the Crown. The right hon. gentle-
man deprecated most strongly that England should be a
party to any congress. That, as his noble friend intimated,
was a matter yet subjeet to consideration. But when the
right hen. gentleman expressed himself so earnestly against
a congress, he (Lord Palmerston) could not help reccollect-
ting that the late Government had once proposed and as-
sented to the meeting of a congress. The right hon. gentle-
man said, "Don't go into a congress, or you will be involved
with obligations which will be most embarrassing here-
after." But for what object was the congress to which the
right hon. gentleman when in office had given his assent to
be assembled, if it was not to be assembled for the settle-
ment of the affairs of Italy by engagements binding all Go-
vernments ? And the house had been told that wars did not
accomplish the objects for which they were instituted. His
right hon. friend had answered that argument, for he had
pointed out that in the late Russian war this country had
obtained advantages even greater than it had hoped to gain
when it first went into that contest. And when it was said,
as it had been by the hon. member for Birmingham, that
England had induced France to go into that war, it was
only right to point out that the dispute first arose through
the conduct of France.
Mr. BRIGHT explained. He did not say that England
brought France into the Russian war. What he said was,
that when France would have accepted the Russian terms,
England induced her to go on with the war, because she did
not wish it to be said that she had gone from her position
as ally of England.
Lord PALMERSTON would call the attention of the
house to other instances in which we had interposed in
foreign affairs, and our interposition had not been fruitless.
We had interposed in the matter of the kingdom of Greece,
and although the position of that country might not be
all that was desired—(hear, hear)—still no one could deny
that her situation was greatly improved from what it had
been before we interposed. Again, we had interposed in
the affairs of Belgium. The result was that the people of
that country were well governed, as prosperous, as attached
to their country, as it was possible for a people to be. We
had interposed, too, in the affairs of Spain, at a time when
the Government oithat country was a despotism chequered
by constant revolutions. Spain now enjoyed the blessings
of a liberal constitution and a parliamentary Government.
So, too, in Portugal, our interposition had been followed
by the institution of a parliamentary Government not dis-
similar to our own. Again, in the case of the slave trade
we had secured freedom and happiness to millions of
Africans. It was not enough, on an abstract principle, to
condemn the practice of intervention ; it ought to be consi-
dered what the result was, and if that was satisfactory then
they ought to give their consent to the intervention. The
right hon. gentleman made a very eloquent discourse on
the horrors of war ; everybody must agree with him in that.
But it should be remembered that there were also calamities
during peace, and those who passed by the calamities which
Italy had suffered during the period of peace which preceded
the late hostilities showed in so doing that they had but a
limited acquaintance with the 'important bearings of the
subject they were discussing. He hoped that the peace
which was just concluded would not carry with it a repeti-
tion of those calamities. His noble friend had intended, as
was the fact, that whether this country would be repre-
sented at a congress or not was yet a subject of considera-
tion, but he might say that no Government would recom-
mend that England should be a party to a conference merely
to register arrangements made by allies without her previous
consideration. He quite concurred with what had fallen
from his hon. friend the member for Birmingham, that
this country had no right to make itself a censor of the
that country was content with
aatssovereign might govern a
this country had to do was to
peror of the French had been,
whether in peace or in war, our faithful ally. But while
rememberni hisaforeignnnr
government.
i n
country
thatwh i
fully assenting to these views he thought thatthey afforded
'the
All
onlEnytgmh foreign
no reason why we should not put ourselves in a state of
defence. A great country like this, which had so many in-
terests to defend, so much wealth to protect, had no right
to repose on the mere security of the forbearance of other
nations. And it was not one power only from which the
complications of public evil might arise. There was Russia,
with whom we had already. been in collision, and might be
again. He knew that there could be nothing more injurious
to our interests, more adverse to common sense, than to pro-
claim a weakness, and, at the same time, by every means in
our power to gall and excite the jealousy of the very person
in regard to whom we expressed our feeling that hostility
might arise. There was one other point to which he would
refer, in order to express his concurrence with the view of
his noble friend, that we ought not to endeavour to enter
into any diplomatic engagement with France in order to in-
duce that country to enter upon the policy of free trade. No
doubt our so doing would only be to lead a strong party
there to raise an outcry that we were obtaining some
imaginary advantage over their industrial interests. To a
certain extent it might perhaps be urged that this country,
having the benefit of free trade, was a gainer by the reten-
tion of the opposite system in France. But the fact no
doubt was that nothing which France could do for the
benefit of her trade—and the abrogation of protection would
be such a benefit—could act but as a benefit to every other
country in the world. He hoped that thetime would come
when France, seeing the advantage which a system of free
trade bestowed upon ourselves, would introduce that prin-
ciple in her own affairs. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT explained. He did not propose anything
in the shape of a treaty of commerce, but he had said that
what had lately taken place in France with regard to the
reduction of duties offered a favourable opportunity to our
Government to bring the subject of the extension of free
trade measures under the consideration of the French Go-
vernment. With regard to treaties of commerce, he enter-
tained the same opinions as the noble lord.
Mr. S. FITZGERALD said that what had fallen from
the noble lord rendered a few remarks from him necessary.
The noble lords (Russell and Palmerston) had seized this
opportunity for entering upon the question of our foreign
policy. But the other nighe, when Lord Elcho proposed
to bring on his motion, and the views of the late Govern-
ment might have been explained and justified, the Govern-
ment said that the discussion of foreign affairs would be
inconvenient to the public service. Now, however, when
it was impossible for the late advisers of the Crown to go
fully into the matter, these noble lords were themselves the
persods to go into the discussion of foreign affairs. The
noble lord had not only approved the neutrality policy of
the late Government, but enforced it in nearly the same
language. The speeches of the noble lords must have con-
vinced everyone that they had made up their minds to go
into Conirress—if they could get there. (Opposition cheers.)
They might say that the matter was still in doubt,but
their intention was evident. Either we should go into
Congress to accept the terms of peace or to alter them. If
to alter them, in whose interest ? (Hear.) The noble lord
had expressed his desire to see Austria driven out of Italy.
If he went to congress to support this view, there was an
end of the neutrality of this country. Assuming it to be
true, as the noble lord said, that good had resulted from our
former interferences, that was not sufficient to justify us in ,
adopting any other than a strictly independent English
policy. Our interference at Naples had done much injury ;
the withdrawal of our ambassador had operated seriously in.
the Cagliari affair. Other instances of impolitic interfer-
ence were found in the Pacifico affair, and when Lord
Minto went through Italy stirring up all the populations to
revolt. On another occasion the noble lord (Palmerston)
had interfered in the affairs of Italy in such a way as to
prevent an arrangement which would have been far more
beneficial to that country than the one that had now been
arrived at, after ten years of suffering on the part of the
people. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that the Government
would shortly allow the house an opportunity for discussing
the propriety of going into congress. It would be the worst
course the Government could take to accept the bases of a
peace with which we had nothing to do. (Hear, hear.) Any
attempt to alter these bases in favour of Italy would be at-
tended with the worst effects, by estranging from us the other
powers ; and should the Government take such a course
they would incur a very heavy responsibility which would
be visited noon them when Parliament again met.
Sir H. VERNEY said it would be impossible for this
country to refrain from exercising some influence on one
side or the other, in an important crisis like the present.
Mr. WHITESIDE said it was melancholy to reflect
that, after ten years of suffering on the part of the Italian
People, and all the miseries of the late war, worse terms
had been secured than were offered to the noble viscount
(Palmerston) ten years ago, and by him rejected. (Hear,
hear.)
Colonel SYKES referred to the vast increase in every
derpartment of expenditure in the last 25 years. Since
1835, the military expenditure had increased from seven
.millions to eleven millions, or 55 per cent. The expen-
diture on the navy had increased from four millions to

eleven millions and a half, or 198 per cent. The cost of the
miscellaneous services had increased from £182,000 to
£BOB,OOO, or 342 per cent. In the salaries of public depart-
ments, now £1,433,000, there had been an increase of 300
per cent. The per (tentage of increase, under the head of
law and justice, was still greater, no less than 414 per cent.
The expenses fo r education, science, and art, had risen from
£125,190 to £1,328,453. , This was the progress of civilise.
tion. (A laugh.)
Mr. E. LEATFIAM objected to the proposal of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer for making cheques presented by
the drawers liable to the penny stamp.
Mr. HORSFALL expressed his belief that the house
would readily grant any sum that was necessary for our na-
tional defences, but he thought that a less oppressive means
of raising the money might have been devised than by in-
creasing the income-tax, especially on persons of small in-
comes,

The house then went into committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
would not proceed with the alteration of the duty on cheques
until ample time was given the public for consideration. He
would not introduce any bill on the subject this year, feel-
ing that it would be in the nature of a surprise. (Hear.)
He would now simply move the first resolution, which was
as follows :

That, towards raising the supply granted to her Majesty,
in addition to the rates and duties granted and now charge -
able under the act passed in the 16th and 17th years of her Ma-
jesty's reign, chapter 34, for granting to her Majesty duties
on profits arising from property, professions, trades, and
offices, there shall be charged, collected, and paid, for and in
respect of all property, profits, and gains, charged or charge-
able under the said act, either by assessment, contract of
composition, or otherwise, the follo wing additional rates and
duties, that is to say—upon any assessment made on the an-
nual value or amount of any property, profits, or gains (ex-
cept property, profits, and gains chargeable under Schedule
(B) of the said Act), the additional rate or duty of four pence
for every twenty shillings of the annual value or amount of
all such property, profits, and gains, respectively ; and for
and in respect of the occupation of lands, tenements, here-
ditaments, and heritages, chargeable under Schedule (B) of
the said act, the additional rate or .duty of two pence in Eng-
land, and of one penny halfpenny in Scotland and Ireland
respectively, for every twenty shillings of the annual value
thereof, and such additional rates and duties respectively
shall be collected and paid with and over and above the first
moiety of the duties assessed or charged under the said act.
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved as an amendment that
the income. tax should be augmented by 3d. only, instead of
4d. The tax was an odious and iniquitous one, and could
never be made just. At the time of the first income-tax
every house of business in London petitioned against it, and
a member of that house reommeuded that the Income Tax
Act should be burnt by the public hangman. (A laugh.)
He not 9nly objected to the proposed increase of 4d., but
he objected to the whole of the 4d. being levied in the
first half year. Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer
propose to take, in October, the whole 4d. on the
Long Annuities, which expired in March followino
He was not at all satisfied that it was necessary to raise
£4,000,000 of money, and therefore he moved that 3d. be
substituted for 4d.

Mr. POLLARD URQUHART thought the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had taken the-best mode of meeting the
deficiency. He might have recourse to a loan or to an in-
crease of indirect taxation, but in an economical point of
view it was far preferable to tax income than capital.
Mr. SPOONER wished to know whether the right hon.
gentleman meant to deal with bankers' cheques in the pre-
sent year, and if so, what mode of proceeding he meant to
adopt ? He should also like to know whether, in the oase
of a tenant occupying a farm the lease of which was to ex-
pire on Lady-day, the whole income tax would be levied
on that tenant, or whether the succeeding tenant was to
pay half the tax ?
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he knew instances in which
great injustice had been done to working men by the opera-
tion of the income tax. He hoped a provision would be
introduced exempting the wages of labouring men from the
tax.

Mr. ROEB UCK would wish to know what difference
there was between the man who drove a quill and the man
who drove a dray ?
Sir S. NORTHCOTE could not agree with the amend-
ment of the hon. baronet, because he did not think they
would be able to make both ends of the year meet if the
rate was to be reduced to 3d. •
Mr. F. CR JSSLEY said although there might be some
difficulty with regard to the details of such a tax, he did not
believe it would be nearly so objectionable in principle as
the income tax. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUBBARD regretted that the only means which
the right hon. gentleman had discovered of extricating
himself from his financial difficulty was the aggravated use
of that most mischievous impost the unreformed property
and income tax. The course of our fiscal legislation had
led us more and more to the adoption of direct taxation,
and it was therefore necessary that that species of taxation
should be reformed, so as to make it as equitable as any
other tax that could be applied. Concurring in the spirit
of the motion of the hon. baronet (Sir H. Willoughby) he
should give it his cordial support. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that,
although the discussion had not been very long, it had
covered a considerable breadth of ground, and included a
variety of questions besides that which had been raised by
the hon. baronet. With regard to the question how the
Long Annuities were to be taxed, his answer was, that they
would be taxed in respect of a half-year's payment, like
other public securities which were payable half-yearly, the
tax being a tax for six months of the year. The question.
of the Long Annuities had often been considered, and the
difficulties which it involved were difficulties inherent in
the nature of the income tax. and it would only perplex the
case if he were to enter into the arguments of the hon. gen-
tlemaa who had just sat down. The hon. baronet proposed
to reduce the tax from 4d. to 3d., and upon this distinct
ground, that Chancellors of the,Exchequer had got an in-
veterate habit of underestimating the income of the country
—ergo. he had understated it, and consequently £1,000,000
might safely be put to his estimate, and £1,000,000 be thus
cut down from the ways and means. The hon. baronet
had omitted from his view of the case two very essential
particulars, which determined its whole merits. It was
not true, so far as he knew, that a practice existed of un-
derestimating the income by the finance ministers of the
country. The estimates were framed mainly and almost
exclusively according to the deliberate judgment of the heads
of the revenue department. He never but once presented an
estimate that had not been framed in that manner, and that
was the produce of the income tax on incomes under £l5O.
It was the practice to make the estimates with perfect bona
fides, but it was impossible so to frame them as to anticipate
all the vicissitudes of the year. It was quite true that in
one case there had been an excess of £700,000 over the esti-
mate, and in another case an excess of £1,500,000. In
some cases however the revenue fell short of the estimate—
a remarkable instance of this occurred in 1840, when the
right hon. baronet the member for Portsmouth (Sir F.
Baring) was Chancellor of tne Exchequer • the revenue fell
short of his estimate two millions and a 'half ; he had at
times been much criticised for this, but in point of fact he
was not to blame, as the produce of the revenue depended on
the harvest, on peace, commercial prosperity, the crop of
sugar or tea. The heads of departments stated the estimates
as high as they consistently could, and that being, so the
house would act most unwisely if it departed from the esta-
blished practice of keeping on the safe side. Since his ac-
cession to office he had requested the heads of the customs
and excise to reconsider their estimates, and the result had
been a small addition under each head. It should be recol-
lected also that the expenditure sometimes exceeded the es-
timate. Last year the actual inillease exceeded the estimate
by a million and a half; but iii'c'eriiiiinenee of an excess of
expenditure, the actual surplus was only £BOO,OOO, which
had been applied to the purchase of deficiency bills. In
reply to the hon. member for Warwiokshire, he could only
pledge himself not to introduce any measure with regard to
cheques this session, when it could not be fully discussed.
With regard to the case of a holding from Lady-day to
Michaelmas this year, and the quitting, he would of course
have to pay the extra 4d., as he held for the six months
over which the tax extended. In 1854 the House of Com-
mons did exactly what it was now asked to do. The in-
come tax was then 7d., and they doubled it for the first
,half-year. That, however, was overlooked, because, from
the necessities of the war, it was afterwards doubled for the
second half-year also. The hon. member for Lambeth had
made rather a formidable demand that incomes under £l5O
should be exempt, or if that could not be granted, that at
least workmen's wages should be relieved. If such was
allowed, the result would be that those paid by the week
would be exempted. The distinction, however, was unsound
in principle, andlwould be dangerous in practice. He be-
lieved that in truth a workman with £lOO paid weekly was
a richer man than a clerk or curate with an annual salary.
The late Secretary of the Treasury had spoken of the mode
of payment. It was not a question as to the mode of payment.
The question was, whether the money should be raised with-
in the year 1859-60 for the service of that year and handed
over to the finance of 1860-61. If the money was not handed
over it should be raised by borrowing, and there was no use
in proposing a reduction of the revenue. The only other
course would 'be to reduce the expenditure ; if the
hon. baronet could do that, he would be glad of his assis-
tance.

Sir F. BARING said that the right hon. gentleman jus-
tified his course in levying the entire increase in the first
half-year by the precedent of the Russian war ; he could
only conclude from thence that the right hon. gentleman
intended to follow Out the precedent fully and impose
another 4d. for the second half of this year; if that were so,
it was not fair treatment of the House of Commons—(hear,
hear)—if it were not so, the right hon. gentleman was not
acting on his principle of making the income meet the ex-
penditure. The country derived no advantage from the
course he was now taking, and great injury was done the
taxpayer.
Mr. DISRAELT said that all estimates of income and
expenditure were uncertain to seme extent. In his state-
ment last year hehad estimated the surplus at a million and
a half. It was no financial surplus, but a real surplus. It
was indeed afterwards reduced to £BOO,OOO, but that arose
from the fact that the demands arising out of the Russian
and Chinese wars were made, of which he could have no
expectation, and which reduced the surplus. This would
answer the objection of the hon. baronet the member for
Evesham, and show him that it was absolutely necessary to
leave a margin for income and expenditure, or the finances
of the country would never be in a safe position. (Hear.)
With regard to what the Chancellor of the Exchequer called
the mode of payment, the whole question lay in a nutshell.
It cameto this. Whether, when it was necessary to levy a
tax, ought they not to make it as light as possible, and not
go out of their way to increase the grievance. The objec-
tions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to his proposal
were based on the fallacy that he considered his proposal
to be a proposal for borrowing money. He denied that it
was so ; the money would be paid out of the revenues of
the country. The committee had decided that the money
should be raised out of the revenue, and all that they had
to do was to see it was so raised, and that in the manner
least burdensome to the taxpayers. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer had got first-rate security, and it was his duty
to get the money in the manner most satisfactory to the
country. The mode he advised was strictly analogous
to that pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer with
regard to the Exchequer Bonds, and the whole matter ought
to be a mere matter of arrangement between the Chancellor
and the Bank of England. The fact was, the Chancellor
wanted in six months what the country wanted twelve to
pay, and the Bank of England must have changed very
much if they would not facilitate the arrangement. They
had given the Minister all the supplies he required, and it
was his duty to see that the money was raised in the man-
ner least burdensome to the taxpayer. The mode was in-
dicated by pointing out a means which had been previously
adopted by the right, hon. gentleman, and they told him
that the Bank of Enoiand was ready to assist him with all
the sums necessary for the public revenue, in the manner
least inconvenient to she country.
The amendment of Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, that instead of
the word "four-pence" in the resolutioh,the word "three"
should be inserted, was then put and negatived, and the
resolution was agreed to.
On the next resolution, " That where any dividends, inte-
rest, or other profits or gains becoming due or payable half-
yearly, are assessed or charged half-yearly with the rate or
duty under the said act, there shall be charged upon the first
assessment or charge which shall be hereafter made on such
dividends, interest, profits, and gains, the additional rate or
duty of eightpence for every twenty shillings of the half-

yearly amount thereof ; and where any profits or gains
becoming due or payable quarterly are assessed or charged
quarterly with the rate or duty under the said act, there
shall be charged upon the first two quarterly assessments
or charges respectively which shall be hereafter made on
such last-mentioned profits and gains, the additional rate
or duty of eightpence for every twenty shillings of the
quarterly amount of such last-mentioned profits and gains ;
and the said additional rates and duties charged in such
half-yearly and quarterly assessments respectively shall be
collected and paid with and over and above the rates and
duties assessed or charged therein respectively under the
said act.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved as an amendment after
the word " thereof " to insert " for every one pound of divil
dend on the Long Annuities expiring on the sth January,
1860, one farthing in the pound."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not
detain the house on this question, which was one of the
difficulties essential to a uniform income tax. Those who
thought that the income tax could be recast and readjusted
would vote with the hon. baronet ; for it was true, if you
did that, you might fix the amount at which every annuity
was taxed, and what part of the tax was derived from
capital, and what from income. But that was opposed to
the scheme or a uniform income tax, which declined to
notice any capital returned to a person in the form of in-
come ; and any one who was in that position knew that
he was subject to the income tax in that form. If
they were to adopt the motion of the hon. baronet they
would find themselves entangled with a hundred other
cases as strong or stronger than this. The case of a
life annuity was not different in this respect from the long
annuities. In all these cases such an arrangement as was
proposed would lead to inextricable confusion. The ques-
tion had been already decided by the House of Commons at
different times ; in the time of his right hon. friend the
present Home Secretary, and also in 1842, when Mr.
Ricardo raised and discussed the question on a motion like
that of the hon. baronet, and the house, having considered
it, decided against Mr. Ricardo and in favour of the pre
sent arrangement by a majority of 253 to 117. It would,
therefore, not be consonant with justice to adopt the motion.
Mr. HUBBARD said that the rate at which the tax was
payable was not at 4d. but Bd. for the year, and half the
payment of these annuities having gone, the Chancellor of
the Exchequer was about to resuscitate an extinct payment
for the purposes of the tax.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
was no doubt the case, but the Long Annuities only corres-
ponded with the case of the fundholder.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE wished to know if the tax was meant
to be prospective or retrospective; as regarded the Long
Annuities, it must be retrospective.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
understand what the noble baronet meant by a retrospective
tax. It was in one sense retrospective, as it was laid on in
respect of time from the Ist of April last, and they were
now in July. He was sorry to say that was the case with
all the income tax acts to which this country had been sub-
jected. The act of 1842, far which the right hon. baronet
the member for Lincolnshire voted, was retrospective in
that sense. The tax was not laid, as the hon. baronet said,
on a year's income, but on half a year's income, but in many
cases the only mode of ascertaining the half-year's income
was by assessing that of the whole year, and then halving
it.

Mr. WALPOLE said it was clear that you could not, as
regarded the new income tax, draw a distinction between
the old and the new one, and if you subjected the Long
Annuities to the tax, the argument went to show that as
they expired in 1860, they ought only to be charged at the
rate of 3d. in the pound. But the right hon. gentleman
said that the mode of levying the tax proposed was con-
sistent with justice.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I only
said that it would not be just to adopt the amendment.
Mr. WALPOLE was glad to hear that, because they
would not be precluded from that point in the considera-
tion of the income• tax next year; and if it was re-imposed
it must be re-arranged, so as to make some difference be-
tween fluctuating and fixed incomes.
After a few words from Mr. MALINS and Mr. BARROW,
which were entirely lost in cries of " Oh," and " Divide,"
The amendment was put and negatived,
The original motion having been put,
Mr. DISRAELI rose to move an amendment. He had
no objection to the imposition of the tax to meet the defi-
ciency of four millions and a half, but he objected to the
mode in which the assessment was made. It was sought
to have the four millions raised by the tax paid in six
months, and he proposed that the payment should be dis
tributed over 12 months. He moved that the two last lines
of the resolution be struck out,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER regretted
that the right hon. gentleman had moved that amendment.
The ways and means of the year were those which were paid
in the year, and taxes which were not paid within the year
were not the ways and means of the year. The hon. member
for Huntingdon had cavilled at him, and had alleged that
he ought to be content with getting two millions now and
two millions in 1861; because in 1854 he had :proposed to
raise money on Exchequer Bonds, in anticipation of the
next half-year's income-tax and the malt tax, which could
not be paid within the year. His answer was two-fold--
what did they do in 1854 ? They asked the house for 12
millions of new taxes, and would it have been rational or
fair to say to the house that they should lay on the whole
12 millions of taxes in one year ? But to request the pay-
ment of four millions of new taxes in one year was a 'very
different thing, as it was only one-third of the amount. If
the hon. gentleman asked why he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) was content to take money by anticipation in
)854, his answer was because he could not help it, and be-
cause he could not have got in 12 millions of taxes in one
year. 'The second reason was that they had some experience
since 1854, and he had seen enough to cause him to know
that it was an undesirable experiment to repeat. The Go-
vernment of 1854 said—We will have five or six millions of
taxes imposed which cannot be received within the year,
but if the war should cease and the money comes in it may
be applied to the payment of the Exchequer Bonds. The
war did cease, and the money did come in, but Parliament
did not choose to recognise its applicability wholly to the
payment of Exchequer Bonds, but applied only two mil-
lions to that payment, and the rest to the ways and means
of the year. After that experiment, andwhen the probabi-
lity was that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer borrowed
money now the loan would be continued and the money
intended for it when it came declared to, be part of the
ways and means of the year, he would tell the hon. gentle-
man that he would not provide fourmillions for the year by
getting in only two millions at once. It might be said that
they gave the best security, and there was no better security
than consols, but the questionwas whether they would pro-
vide for the year within the year. The proposal of the right
hon. gentleman would no doubt be popular, since it was to
relieve the present at the expense of the future. But he
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) entreated the house to
listen to the words he was about to speak, for they were full
of meaning. The proposals the Government had made were
those which they deemed the smallest required by the state
of the public interest and the demands on the national ex-
chequer. He had pointed out some of the demands that were
coining upon them, includingX6oo,ooo a-year of guarantees
for packets and telegraphs, not sanctioned by Parliament ;
and there was more in reserve. Other questions had been
raised which were not at the present moment matured
enough to enable him to declare the views of the_ Govern-
ment upon them, but upon which the Government would
be compelled, perhaps before many days, to declare- their
views. It was their absolute duty to take these exigencies
into account, which had shortly been explained. He there-
fore hoped the house would -negative the proposal of the
right hon. gentleman. As responsible minister of the
Crown, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would give
the'house this assurance, and would tell them that they
had not measured, and at this moment they could not mea-
sure the demands which were coming upon them in connec-
tion with the wants of the empire. (Hear.) He therefore
hoped the house would be disposed to give the Government
the provision which they asked for the wants of the year.
If the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli), however,
thought fit to persist with his proposition, he would, since
it was not one for the imposition of taxation, but for the re-
lease of taxation, be able to bring it forward upon another
occasion, and not in the Committee of Ways and Means.
He trusted the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) would
therefore postpone it to some period during thesppearokgrwiestsh oaf
the bill, when he might be able, perhaps, to
fuller knowledge of the position in which he stood. the
words which he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had just
spoken were uttered, he could assure the house, under a
deep sense of the responsibility of his position.
Mr. T. BARING said that if the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer meant to declare that such was the state of the
country, and such were the views of the Government, that
it was important to have this money within six months, he
for one should not oppose the proposition of the Govern-
ment ; but the right hon. gentleman must be aware that
arrangements could be made to render the second portion of
the additional income tax available for every purpose of
this year's expenditure. With regard to the £600,000 of
applications for contracts, it was in the power of Govern-
ment to refuse them if they thought proper. The observa-
tions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed to indi-
cate a foregone conclusion to put on another 4d. in the
pound next February or March.
Mr. HENLEY did not see hew it would be possible to
levy this tax on the Consols, one-half year of which was
already past and gone, the next half -year not being payable
till January next. The effect would be that the holders of
Consols would only pay half the tax. However, if the
money must be got in within the year, the house could not
do otherwise than agree to the proposal. However, in con-
venient the proceeding might be, still, if the Government
really wanted the money within the financial year, he would
not refuse it them, although money to be received in the
next financial year could be made applicable by Exchequer
Bills. The right hon. gentleman's words certainly held out
a very alaimiwg, prospect of something looming in the dis-
tance.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, with re-
ference to a remarli of the hon. gentleman the member for
Huntingdon, denied that he had any " foregone conclusion"
as to the taxes that must be imposed next year. As an
humble individual, it was his duty to labour to keep down
the expenditure as much as he could. That was a very un-
hopeful task just now, and he should not be able to succeed
in it without help from both sides of the house. He would
always urge the house as far as possible to meet the burdens
of the day in the day.
Mr. DISRAELI said the question had really assumed a
very difficult and serious aspect. He was never more sur-
prised in his life than at hearing the observations of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer just now. He would pass by
the right hon. gentleman's allusion to the pending contracts
or guarantees of £600,000 a year. It was well known that
pending contracts were in the power of the Government,
and no Government would enter in; o a guarantee where
there was any probability of a shilling being called for. But
the right hon. gentleman had made other appeals to the
house of a very, serious character. However disagreeable
the communications made by the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer must usually be, it was one compensation that the
truth and the whole truth should be placed before the house,
and when the budget had been opened the house might
reasonably think they knew the depth and extent of the
liabilities of the country. But he collected from what
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had just said that the
house were in the unenviable position of not having yet
been informed by the Minister of the full extent of their.
liabilities. It was a mere mockery and delusion to con-
sult the house if
.the Minister was to treat them in
that manner. He trusted, therefore, that at least before
they had to legislate on this proposition, the Chancellor of
the Exchequer would condescend to enter into a complete
and sincere explanation. (Cheers.) He admitted the force
of the right hoii. gentleman's plea, and he could not incur
the responsibility of pressing on the house to take a step in
the dark, when, after the annual exposition of the finances
of the country they were now told that they had butim-
perfect information. If, however, he now waived the pro-
position he had made, he expected that at least before the
end of the session, although they might be told that foreign
politics were matters above the ken and comprehension of
the Hopse of Commons, although diplomacy might not deign
to reveal to them its mysteries, still, in matters of finance
the house should have a full revelation of those engage-
merits and responsibilities which had been so mysteriously
intimated e EXCHEQUER would beg
(Cheer
e f st .h)
ght boa. gentleman to recollect that he had stated, as
The t
CHANCELLOR them.
the right
clearly as he could, and such was the state into which our .

finances had been brought, and very much by that habit of
prospective engagements, without the authority of Parlia-
ment, which had been a growing evil for several years, and
which he was sorry to say he found, on acceding to office,
in a state such as he could hardly have believed—that even
with respect to English finances, it was not in his power,
three weeks after coming into office, to convey to the House
of Commons a complete view of their present and prospec-
tive condition. (Hear, hear.) But there were other ques-
tions than those of English finance, and those he had espe-
cially in view. The right hon. gentleman said it was his
absolute duty to communicate fo the House of Commons
every,thing bearing on the condition of our finances ; but
the right hon. gentleman himself had been sixteen months
in office, and ought to have obtained a tolerably clear view
of the financial exigencies of the empire. (Hear, hear.)
He remembered that the noble lord at the head of the In-
dian Government in the late Adminfistration announced that
the requirements of the Indian exchequer were seven mil-
lions, and then, after that clear and distinot statement it was
discovered that four or five millions more were required.
(Hear.) If he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had now
used words which could convey any idea that there was any
political significance in what he had said of covert demands,
that was as far as possible from his intention ; he had not
the slightest intention of the kind, and was referring only to
financial exigencies. Of course it was his duty to bring
these fully before the house, but his knowledge of them
was limited. With a world-wide empire new demands might
come upon us, and new features of our financial situation
might develop themselves from time to time.
Mr. DEEDES said he felt that however tempting the
proposition of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli)
might be, he could not now throw any impediment in the
way of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the responsi-
bility must be cast on the executive.
The resolutions respecting the income tax were then put
and agreed to. _

On-the third resolution, " That, toward raising the
supply granted to her Majesty, the time limited for
payment of the duty of excise on malt by every
maltster, or maker of malt, who shall have given
security by bond in the manner directed by the act passed
in that behalf in respect of all malt begun to be made on or
after the Ist day of October, 1859, shall be twelve weeks in
lieu of eighteen weeks after the making of such account or
return of duty as in the said act is mentioned,"
Mr. PULLER said the effect of this resolution would be
to drive out of the trade all the small maltsters, and it would.
make void the bonds which every maltster had entered into.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
admitted on all hands that if the system of malt credits was
ever to be modified at all it could not be modified more
gently than in the mode proposed, which was only to curtail
the credits six weeks, and the first year they allowed a dis-
count. With regard to the question of the bonds he would
examine into that matter, and see whether there was likely
to be any serious difficulty on the part of the traders with
regard to them.
Sir J. SHELLEY said he thought the right hon. gentle-
man had dealt very lightly with the malting interest in the
proposal under consideration.
After a few words from Mr. DOBSON the resolution
was agreed to, and the Chairman left the chair, and the
house resumed.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSES
Lord PALMERSTON said it might be for the conveni-
ence of the house that he should state, it Having been un-
derstood that there was to be a morning sitting to-mor-
row, for the purpose of taking two bills into consideration
—namely, a bill of his right hon. friend the Home
Secretary, concerning the London. Corporation, and a bill
providing for a new Poor-law arrangement—that the Cor-
poration Bill had been postponed till Wednesday, and that
the Poor-law Bill was to be taken to-morrow evening. It
was not necessary, therefore, that the proposed sitting
should take place to-morrow. The estimates would be
taken to-morrow evening. (Hear, hear.)

SUPPLY.
The report of the Committee of Supply was brought up,
mad the several resolutions were agreed to, the Chancellor
of the Exchequer taking occasion when the vote for the
maintenance of prisons was put to state, in reply to Mr.
Newdeg•ate that the Government had at present no plan
for. the establishment of a penal colony under their conside-
ration.

The Cambridge University Commission (Continuance)
Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Criminal Justice Middlesex (Asssistant-Judge) Bill
was read a third time and passed.
The Ecclesiastical Commission Bill was read a second
time.

The Bankruptcy and Insolvency (Ireland) Bill passed
through Committee.
The Pawnbrokers' Bill, the Universities (Scotland) Bill,
and the Consolidated Fund (L 7,000,000) Bill were each read
a second time.

The Roman Catholic Relief Act Amendment Bill was
withdrawn.

The Diplomatic Pensions Bill went through committee.
The house then went into committee upon the Municipal
Corporations Bill, when
Mr. STEUART moved that the Chairman report pro-
gress and, after some conversation, the motion was
agreed to.

STATE OF THE THAMES.
Sir S. M. PETO moved for a select committee to inquire
into the causes of the present state of the river Thames, and
to suggest such remedies as might be deemed expedient for
its improvement.
• Mr. BLACKBURN thought the subject too important
to be discussed at that late hour, and he therefore moved
the adjournment of the house.
Lord PALMERSTON said that this matter had been
fully considered by a committee last year, and he therefore
hoped that his hon. friend would not persevere with his
motion.

After a short discussion the question was put, and, the
motion for adjournment having been carried without
division,
The house adjourned at two o'clock.

COUNTRY MARKBTS:

MANCHESTER--juLy 21.

The market was somewhat firmer, and wheat was taken
to a fair extent at the prices of this day se'nnight. Other
articles were about stationary.

BIRMINGHAM-JULY 21.

A short supply of wheat which was cleared of at an ad-
vance of is per qr. Barley and oats inquired after. PeaB
were the turn cheaper. Beans unaltered.

LOUTH—JULY 20.
A small attendance to-day at the corn-exchange, and A 4
very limited business transacted. The few sales we heard
of were of wheat, at a reduction of 2s to 33 per quarter—.
for red and mixed 40s to 43s per qr.

BOSTON—JuLY 20.
This morning's market was thinly attended, and holders 4
of wheat and flour being unwilling to make concessions
the business done was so trifling that it is impossible to
quote prices with any degree of correctness. The Spring
corn on offer sold at drooping prices.
Wheat ..... . .3Bs to 42s Oats.... . ..... 21s to 20
White do .42s to 44s Beans ... 46s to 480
Barley .28s to 32s Peas ....Os to 470

•
EDINBURGH GRAIN--JULY 20. ' • .
Supplies less, and sales were heavy to-day.
Wheat on the top 2s 6d down. average Os 7d down-
Barley on the top Os 6d up average Os 9d up.
Oats on tho top 2s Od down ... average Os lld down.
Beans on the top Os 6d up ... --average Os ld down•
Averages per Imperial quarter.
Wheat....
Barley 1 13 8 0-12ths
Oats . 1 5 9 0-12ths
Beans
Total Supply and Sales.
Wheat ... 922 qrs Sold 701 qrs
8ar1ey........ 139 qrs Sold 36 qrs
Oats 932 qrs Sold 664 qrs
Beans 93 qrs Sold 74 qrs

DERBY SMITHFIELD—JULY 19.
The supply of fat beasts to-day was large. but generallf
the quality was deficient, and the demand was flat ; for the
best quality a fair request, and for inferior a heavy sale'
Sheep and lambs were in very good supply, and prices to
higher than last week. Pigs rather numerous, but the
weather was against the sale. Fat calves plentiful.
Beef sta to 7d Veal 6d to ----d"
Mutton .. Gid to 7d Pork
Lamb 7id to 8d Rough fat, 5s Od per stone
Hides, 31d to sid ; calf skins, 6d to 614.

A gentleman of this town (says the Bridgewater
Mercury) has received a letter from M. Simonyi, who re-
cently quitted England for Italy with Louis Kossuth; as
aide-de-camp to the ex. Governor of Hungary. M. Simonyi,
in -common with his compatriots, strongly denounces the
manner in which Kossuth and the Hungarians have been
befooled to serve the purposes. of the French Emperor. •
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are here given :=Cure 52,422.—Bridgehouse, FrimleY,
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been radically removed by Du Barry's health-restoring
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Fortnum, Mason, and Co., 182, Piccadilly; Abbis, 60, . 1
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BIRTHS.
BouvERIE.--On. the 19th inst., at 15, Eaton-place, Mrs.
Philip Pleydell-Bouverie, of a daughter.
HOSTE.—on the 16th inst., at Sandgate, the wife of Major
Hoste, C. 8., Royal Artillery, of a son.

MARRIAGES.
KING—PALMER.—On the 19th inst., at Lighthorne, War-
wickshire, Bolton King, Esq., to Louisa, eldest (laugh'
ter of the Rev. Charles and the Lady Charlotte Pahner.
SIMMONS—DYMOCK.—On the 12th inst., at Ryde, the Re/.
Frank C. Simmons, to Laura, the eldest daughter of the
late Rev. T. F. Dymock, rector of Hatch Beaucb.arolh
Somerset.

DEATHS.
BIDDLE.—On the 16th inst., Edward Biddle, Esq., late of
the War-office, and St. Helier's, Jersey, aged 64.
BLAGDON.—On the 18th inst., at Cheltenham, John Lo°
Blagdon, Esq., of BoddingfOn Manor, Somersetshaeo
-aged 36.
CONINGHAM.—Ori the 17th inst, at Jersey, Edith Louis°
Coningham, youngest child of Major-General Coning"
ham, aged six years.
,_

LINDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG'
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Suns Office, No. 112,
Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of
Middlesex, Friday, July 2 , 1859.