The Sun.
London, England, 1832-07-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULr 5.
Mr. I'RINGLE was of a very different opinion. He
denied that there had been any modification in the sys-
tem ; and contendim that the General Assembly of Scot-
land had acted under a mistaken notion.
Mr. J. E. GORDON replied, and withdrew the motion.

. -
TITHES IN IRELAND.
Mr. STANLEY said, that at this late period of the
Session on the eve of a nissolu ion of Parliament, and
after su long arid laborious an attendance on the part of its
islembers, he would willingly hays refrained from bringing
h.rward a subject so complicated in its details, and the
diseue,iou of which, however he might wish to avoid it,
must alm.ist necessarily lead to warmth, if not to asperity,.
But looking at the state of Ireland—at the condition of the
clergy of the Church of England residing there—at the
entire disorgal"2 'Lion of a eiety—andt the absence of
power in the law to insure its own execution—he should
be wanting his duty, and the other Members of the Go-
vernment wanting in theirs, if the present Parliament
were suffered to separate without having the existing state

of the Sister Kingdom, and the mode in which it was pro-
,moeed to treat the evils of the present system, lai.;
before it. One of those evils was unquestionably the
;node in which tithes were collected; and he might here
take occasion to advei t to an expression he had used on
a former occasion, and which bad afterwards been made
the subject of remark, that the present Government
looked to the extinction of tithes. Honourable Mem-
bers would do him the justice to recollect that he had on
the same occasion coupled that remark with the statement
that although Government might look to the extinction of
•ithes, no man could contemplate the absence of some pay-
arising out of the land for the maintenance of the Pro-
testant clergy. No man who dispassionately and fairly
weighed the words he had used would be of opinion that
they conveyed more. He did say then, and repeated now,
that the present Government was anxious for the total and
entire extinction of tithes in the manner in which they
now pressed upon the industry and resources of Ireland.
He begged the House to consider what in this country as
well as in Ireland, but especially in the latter, ren-
dered tithes a mode of payment peculiarly obnoxious and
ehjectionable to the labouring and agricultural portion of
the community. First. it was clear that the tithe system
was no fixed and definite payment, but a progressively
increasing claim, pressing most heavily upon the person
who applied the largest amount of capital and industry
upon his 1;hil. This was the point of view in which
tithes were to be considered a most grievous burden in
both countries, inasmuch as it had a tendency to check
improvement and to paralyse exertion. There was an•
other view in which tithes were objectionable, especially
in Ireland : he referred to the exceedingly minute sums in
which tithes were paid, and the small articles of produce
on which they were charged. This evil was felt more se-
verely in Ireland, because there the farmer and the la-
bourer were often combined in the same individual, and
•he holdings were so much subdivided. A third, and a
very important objection to tithes was applicable to Ireland
alone. Even in England, the situation of a clergyman
was often painfully invidious, but in Ireland the p ayment
o; tithes was not made by persons of the same religious
creed, but generally by Catholic parishioners to Protestant
clergy. In England the augmented value of land, and time
increase of population enhanced both the labour arid the
tesponsPaility of the clergyman ; but in Ireland his
dirties were unconnected with the population, and he
was necessarily looked upon as a mere tax on the industry
of the Roman Catholics ; while, to use their own ex-
pressive phrase, they recoived no return for the money they
paid. If the burden were removed from the shoulders of
the tenant of the soil, even though he were to pay an
equivalent sum to his landlord, an important benefit would
be conferred upon him in the relief to his own mind ;
but he would also derive a pecuniary advantage from the
change ; it would be a substantial remedy for a real
grievance. As he wished as much as possible to avoid all
topics calculated to excite asperity of language, he would
pass over the multifarious abuses which, by the consent
of all men, had prevailed under the system of valuation
and tithe proctors ; that system had not only led to the
grossest frauds, but it had been a fruitful source of blood-
shed and animosity. More injury had been done to the
Protestant cause and religion in Ireland by tithe proctors
than by any other cause that could he named. Sonar
years ago the then Ministers of the Crown had re-
moved part of the practical evil by the adoption of the
Tithe Composition Bill ; the evil was thus terminated
at least for a time, in parishes where the composi-
tion was carried into effect ; but as the arrangement
was onty to continue for 21 years, at the end of that time
the increased income of the clergyman was revised, and re-
vised under circumstances not tending to lessen the annoy-
ance, and suppress the heart-burnings. It was, unques-
tionably, a great benefit in the Tithe Composition Bill,
that it equalized the burden upon arable and pasture lands
permanent as well as a moderate assessment was fixed
upon both. It had often been suggested, that it would
be better to commute tithes fur land tax, inasmuch as it
would epread equally and justly over various descriptions
of soil; and where the Tithe Composition Bill was in
operation, it amounted, in fact, to an equitable land-tax.
The measure, however, failed to produce all the good ef-
fects expected to flow from it, from defects in its construe-
, tion ; lie did not mean to impute the slightest blame to
the framers of the hill, but one part of his plan would
be to remedy those defects. He well knew the difficulties
with which Ministers had in former times to contend
on this subject, and he was well aware also of the in-
creased difficulties under which he himself must inevitably
labour. The measures met, at that time, the approb I-
tion of all sides of the House; especially of those gen-
tlemen who supported the Catholic interest. But the
Bill was rendered in a great degree nugatory by the
enactment that the adoption of the composition should
lie entirely optional with both parties. There was in
many counties, a large proportion of grazing land,
which, according to the tithe laws of Ireland, is exempted
from the payment of tithes, and in those counties it was
consequently the interest of a large number of the landed
proprietors and occupiers to resist the composition.—
(Hear, hear.) Ile did not mean to deny, nor could it be
denied, that there were a great many instances in which the
clergy refused to compound.—,Hear.)—ln many cases
the fault lay with the clergy themselves--(Hear)—but in
the greater number of can-a, he thought it might be found
that—a thing which, considering the peculiar circum-
stances of I eland, was trot at all surprising—the occupier
endh avoured to t eke advantage of the composition, so as to
defraud the clergyman of his just income —( Hear. hear.)
It would be found, he repeated, that in many instances
this was the real cause of the clergyman's refusal of the
composition offered by his parishioners. On this ground,
therefore, be regretted that the act had been, in the
first instance, made compulsory. But there was ano-
ther reason also, for which ; e thought it desirable that
in every parish the composition should be enforced,
unless it was intended to continue the old system in all.
For when the tithes had been compounded for in one
parish, whilst the old mode of collection was continued
in the parish adjoining, it followed, as a necessary
consequence, tat the comparison rendered the burthen of
the old tithe system more intolerable to that parish iim
which the composition had net been accepted; and she di,-
content was net diminished by the certainty, that they
had no means of removing under the Act the inconveni-
ence which they felt from its non-adoption. His second
objection to the Act was, that the composition was entirely
temporary, and that, at time same time that it made no
provision fur an additional charge proportioned to the in-
creasing value of the land, yet, if at the end of 21 years,
the occupier should refuse to pay an increased tithe rate
proportioned to the improved value of his lands, the cler-
gyman might renew she old tithe system with all its error.
and with all the odium in which that system was held in
in Ireland; and it was not to be suppos,d that the odium
would not be increased by a comparison with the relic;
which had previously been experienced. At the same time
it was to be borne in mind that the shifting of a par;
of the burden from tillage land, which hitherto
had borne the whole, to pasture—which had been
wholly exempt,—tended to increase the average
productiveness of the whole parish, and, with the in-
creased productiveness, the claim of the clergyman would
of necessity increase --(Hear, hear.) Having now stated
his objections to the existing law, he would proceed to
explain the nature of the alterations which it was his in-
tention to propose, and to what extent he hoped to remove
existing grievances. IR the first place, be would recem•
mend that the composition should be compulsory—in
other words, that the amended Composition Act should
be made compulsory in its operation, and perma-
nent in its effect.—(Cries of Hear, hear, hear.) He
would not deprive the clergy of that increase of income
which they midget justly derive from the improved value
of the land. But, at the same time, he would provide that
the occupier should not have his burdens increased by the
decrease of the price of agricultural produce. —(Hear. ) lie
would have the income of the clergyman increased in pro-
portion to advance of price, not to the increase of produce,
the composition being varied according to a valuation taken
every seven years. He would propose that, in all cases
in which a difference should arise between the incum-
bent and the parishioners as to the new composition.
the Lnrd Lieutenant should send down a commission to
inquire as to the relative increase or decrease of the value
of the land, such commission to be guided by the averag;
!mice of agricultural produce for the last seven years. Her,
he would observe, that in regulating the composition from
1832 to 1839, the Commiseioner should be guided by the
average value of tithes for the last seven years preceding
1830—(Hear, bear)—because, ae every Gentleman muse
be aware, occurrences had taken place, which would justly
exclude the last two years from the calculation.—( Hear.;
He should therefore propose that the valuation for the sex
seven years be regulated by the average yearly income of
the incumbent, from 1822 to 1830 ; but that the valua

u
s
tliBo3n9f°teo 61;46", Vsehnouledarbsenn?avdeneakeet oerndi gi ngto' tthhaet. vefrra;ent
valoe of the tithes, or to the average price of agricultural
produce for the seven years immediately preceding—that
is, from 1832 to 1839. There could hii no doubt that it
was the intention of the Right Hon. Gentleman who
framed the Tithe Composhon 8111, to make the land-
owner practically responsible for the tithe, as he was,
according to the intention of the law. ultimately the
payer of it. In order to leave no it that the landlord
was the real payer of the tithe, that Act declared the
in all cases in which the landlord should have 1-t land
tithe-free, the oceupi:r should pay the proportion ap-
plotted to his holding, and should charge it upen the
rent ; and the Act gave the incumbent his remedy against
the occupier, by every means which the law previously
allowed to the landlord for the recovery of his rent, even
to distress and ejectment. In practice this enartment was
not found to answer the end, and the reason ,ea, &orlon., ;
for there was this grievance and peculiar hat &hip attach, d
to it, there being two sums to be 'laid, one to the lundlord
and the other to the clergyman, say tif 11., the entire rent
194. 6d. to the landlord and 6d. to the church, if the
landlord's share should have been paid. still the tenant
would he liable to be put to as much expense for the reco-
very of the 6d. due to the clergyman, as lie would before
have been subjected to, had he neglected to pay the while
sum of 1/. tithe and rent.--(Hear, hear.) In many in-
stances where land was subdivided into numerous hotlines,
the poor cottiers had been put to an expense of several
shillings, in default of payment of one penny tithe. rs'i'
the object which he (Mr. Stanley) had in view, was to
impose the burden really, and in the first instance, mil
upon the miserable and insolvent cattier, who liar
pened to occupy the soil, but upon the solvent and lee tl y
responsible landlord. In legislating for that object. it
was necessary to take into eonside-eine, not only tel:et
was desirab'e, but what might be found really ptartic
If he had to deal with England, or with any other-
country in which the relation between landlord and 'reedit
was really understood and acted upon---(
should be disposed to recommend, in the first instant's.,
that the incumbent should go at once to demand I,e,
tithe of the owner of the fee, from whoin it is teal'y
due, and who is always supposed to he ultimately The
payer.—(Hear.) But in Ireland, diffieultiee were to lee tune,
countered which did not exist in this country. In newt,
cases the occupying tenant was many d• esees rennet -0
from the actual landlord, and in many tases, the owner of
the fee had parted with every advantage of proprietor-
ship, except the claim of a fee-farm rent, Which cart
never be increased. Thus a great part of the land
was let to the immediate tenants upon leases fee liveri,
renewable for ever, and by those tenants again underlei
to others, perhaps also upon leases of the same kind, and
by these again to others; so that there intervened se-
veral middlemen between the owner of the fee and the
actual occupier. He (Mr. S.) therefore proposed that
the last lessor, having an interest—whether by lease or in
fee—beyond that of a tenant at will, should be teepee-
siltle for the payment of the tithe composition ; add wheat
the lease of the person so held responsible for the fithe
should have expired, the whole charge should fall upor?
the holder immediately above him ; so that the person,
having to make a new arrangement with those who
should is l'uture hold land un er him, would become re-
sponsible. Py that arrangement, it was obvious that,
at the expiration of existing leases, the actual landlord—.
that is, the person ultimately receiving the profit rent—
would be the actual payer of the tithe.—(Hear.) The
I next consideration was, how the amount of the composi-
tion was to be received, after it hid been determined upon
whom the burden was to fall.--( Hear.) It would be a
serious evil, if, after all, the incumbent should be com-
pelled to resort to the old mode of distress—to come
down upon the land, and rack the tenant—for dues really
•wing by the landlord. He would therefore propose to aline
lish distress for tithe.--(Hear and a laugh.) He would tee
comment, instead of that made of recovery, that the per.,
son owing the tithe should he liable to an action for ils-
mages, or to a civil hill in the County Courts; and that
upon judgment given against hum, a receiver nhoul.l 1w
summarily appointed by the Court to receive the rent, and
to pay over the balance, having deducted the tithe due.—. 4
(Hear, hear.) He was aware that there were many gen-
tlemen in the House connected with Ireland who inieht
have objections to such a proceeding; but he requested
them to remember, that his object was to relieve the te-
nant from the hardship of suffering by hie landlord's fault
—(Hear, hear)—and, as every landowner took his estate
subject to that claim, as much as to a mortgage debt or
to an annuity, there could be no objection to its being ea-,
tisfied by a similar process.—(He.r.) He meant further
to propose, that if the occupying tenant should choose to
anticipate the demand of the incumbent, by tendering 8a
per cent. of the tithe composition next becoming du-, he
should be allowed to charge the full amount or 100 per
cent. against the landlord, as tor much rent paid ; and, on
the other hand, if, in cases in wh eh the tenant was bound
to pay the composition. the landlord chose to anticipate
the demand by paving 85 per he should he allowed
to charge the full amount of 100 per cent. against the
tenant, as rent due.—(Hear.) He had now gone over
the principal provisions of the first B ll which lie proposed
to introduce. But, in doing so, he had omitted to st ite,
that, a though it was his intention to make the present
compositions compulsory, yet as they had been originally
entered into voluntarily, it shou'd be provided, that
wherever either party, the incumbent or the panel', should
make out reasonable grounds for supposing that. the coin-
position had not been fairly made, a commission should
• e sent by the Lord Lieutenant to adjust the future com-
position ; and as, in the last year, it might have happened
from the uns-tiled state of the tithe qusetiun, and from t• e
e,leupeei
dc:antiiaonnythpaatrtsirersurheaadltoemrairtitieinds
towarprpe,..adbiuitiutthtl be
eil,,tieyietr,,,r):
who would therefore, by the existing Laws lose the right
of appeal, he should provide that ell compositions tenni-
nating previous to November, 1831, should b.. still open
for renewal or readjustment to November, 1832. From
what lie had said, it would lee seen that the ebjeete of the
first 811 were, first, to render the he composition com-
pulsory and permanent, and vary only according to the
variations in the price of aviculture! produce ; and,
secondly, to prevent the burden from falling upon the
occupying
Bill whichtenantying he .should pr
instead
of upon the
landtord. The
.esass one which
would undoubtedly make a censiderahle inters. atien—
( Hear, hear)—anal whiCh would be objecte I te--on the
one hand as confining the unalienable property of the
church (in tithes); and on the o her band is tending to
weaken the hold which, by the present law, tree clergy
had upon the land, for the security of their income. He
was most desirous to avoid everything whice could give
rise to acrimony of discussion, and he should therefore only
state, that, whatever difference of opinion he might li ive
.vith those with whom he acted upon other go-stions, it
was not his intention to Ito away with true centred %%hide
the Legislature might assume over the p.orrty of
the Church.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Whatever (Timone
he might have expressed at any time upon that subjec , to
such opinions he alone was pledged. But there was
nothing in the arrangement which he was about to pro-
peee, that could in any way affect the power which the
House could have over the property of the Chutch. Hip
proposition would only go to substitute one loud of pro-
perty for another. But that would he no les+ under the
control of the Legislature than the property which the
Church held at present. and it would be less subject to the
influence of any outbreak of poptear violence.—( Hear,
hear.) Be tithes objectionable or nor, no man could
wish to see them, or any other kind or property, got
rid of by a popular combination.--(Hear, hear ) It
would he dangerous to tne peace of the country, and to
the security of all its institutions, if the property of the
Chuch were allowed to be done away with by a combine-
tion, which might be rendered applicable to the county
rates, or to the rent of land, or to any impost sanctioned
by the Legislature. —(Hear, hear.) Whether or net the
property of the Church was to be wholly at the dis-
posal of the Legisl.ture, it was at least under the protec-
tion of the Legislature—(HeAr, hear, ht.ar)—And it
was not to be left to the undisputed control 01 p(.
pular violence and combination. Much haul twee said,
sneeringly, of the sufferings of the " pampered clergy ;'
hut it was to be remembered, that in the combina-
tion of the people in this ca.e, it was not merely the
wealthy clergy that suffered, but the hard-working
and ill-paid—(Hear, hear, hear)—together with the
lay impropriator, and the lessee of tithes—the latter being
bound by this engagem,ntis with the incumbent to pay the
full amount, whether he was paid himself er net.—
in
et the church iteelt. Thus
any way the question as to the extent to which chinch.
pro p etrbt
that
t
(llea r. ) His object, therefore,
pre-
ventgoftuhwneria.les7n:atln4yttow.(edn,eht,rjeeurrtn:).in:ht-t
o 1
than that
he would have the whole body collecting for the whole
body, and dividing the proceeds amongst ill- in in due -und
wporastotphaeetrtlytehgfeiri.o:ialints:b:e:iaint,.l
quitehle proportions ; e f ceuree treating the whole, net as
private or personal property, but as church property-4e,
rue applied for the service of the church and of religion.
For that purpose he should propose to erect, in raely !ii -
eeee, a corporation composed of the Bishop and be sietwed
clergy, who, as a joint body, would celiect and oo
tetmte
be funds of the jeint boity, and titcleat "ay ren'eve Cie
oirochial elerey
trout all collision with :brie perisetere.es
in their individual capacity, by the corporate burry eryleet-
ing the whole income, front that deducting the groat re-
ceipts and dividing the surpins in such a manner as
the rights of individuals aught require ; the risk in all

'ese cases being mutual, and the profit mutual likewise.
It was also his Intention to propose such provisions e•
would enable the corporation so formed in each diocese t
make purchases of lands out of such sums as might le
paid for the redemption of tithes, facilities being create
for such redemption in the manner in which the redemp
tion of the land goes forward in England. It would 4,4
course he obvious, that for particular parishes it might nee
always be practicable to fins portions of land precisely o'
the value which those parishes might require to meet t' f
amount of their tithes; but with a view to an arr age
nient of that nature, the proceeds of the redeemed tithes o
several parishes might be united ; and for the use of th,
clerey of those parishes, an estate might be purchased,
which would supply the place of the redeemed tithes; ar-
carilinedy the Bill will afford increased facilities to landlord
to relieve themselves from a burden which they new reall
bear, and which it is the intention of the Bill to Ie
brought forward to impose on them, nominally as well a.
really. The Bill, as he had already said, would ge
upon the same principle as the .redemption of land
tax proceeded in Eriglind, and as the redemption oh
the quit and Crown rents proreeded in Ireland
In order to afford increased facilities to landlord.
for effectine these redemptions, he proposed that, where
there were settled or encumbered properties, the SUMP
raised for the purpose of redemption should tike priority
of all existing circumstances. From the evidence Ware
the Committee nothing could be dearer, that the creditor.
upon any given estate could have no reason whatever te
complain of an arrangement of that nature, because.
though apparently it did really give priority any new in-
eutnbranre, the estates were already liable for the tithe ;
and even if they were not, it would he a vast advantage ti,
all parties concerned that they should be placed on a per-
manent and satisfactory footing, for thus would increased
security be given to their debts. He proposed also to in-
troduce provision to en.ble landlords to sell or exchange
a portion of their entailed estates for that purpose,
'as well as to create new incumhrances, for the pur-
pose of freeing the whole from the burden of tithes
now affecting them. In making an arrangement of that
nature, it was thought expedient that the income.
of .the ti. rey should be calculated at 15 per cent.
below their actual value ; and it was also intended
that the landlords should he enabled to purchase ne
the tithes of their respective estates at the price of sixteen
Year.' purchase, which would, in off et, operate as a de
unction of firteen per cent. upon the income of the clergy.
Pe mod!, take the annn .1 income of the clergy of the esta-
blished church at about 600.0001 per annum, for the pur-
poses of his areument—it was not important that he was
odour. ly correct ; whether accurat ly stated or otherwise.
the numbers i e used would equally well explain his argu-
ment. This 600 0001. a year, taken at sixteen years'
purchase. gave a total of 9 600.0001. taking fifteen per
rent. from that o ould reduce it to 9,300,000/. With
that sum land could be purchased at eights- n years' pur-
cheep for the use of the Clergy, and then they would have
a safe and complete rental of 510.000/. ; and in lieu of the
fifteen per cent. they would have increased security and
diminished trouble. He now came to a point which he
de- toed a ell worthy of the attentive. In a matter of that
imp- rtanre, anh where so great an object was to be at-
tained, it might he expedient to advance money to land-
lords, for the purposes of redemption, at a less rate of in.
tereet teen-five per cent. It might be that sonic landlords
ould abstain from availing them-elves of theatre advantages
o-hich the Bill offered—it might be that some landlorde.—
blind t the pecuniary advantage to themselves—insensible
•to the I enetits accruing from the removal of a fertile
source of discern, indifferent to the sources of inereas, if
income. which the agricultural improvements con.e-
quent upon a restoration of tranquillity must produce.
might still he flow to assume, not a pecuniary burden, but
a peenniery advantage. To such 1 ndtords he pent osed
to hold nit the additional ieducement to rid themselves of
the burden of tithes,, by supplying them with funds fir
that purpose at a lower rate of interest than five per cent.
Not only was it intended, then. to leave it open to
lendloids to purchase up the tithes affecting their property,
and to eive eve' y practicable facility and convenience for
doing sin, but it was blrewiee intended to put it in the power
of the State to purchase any amount of tithes in any part
of the country w here it might lie found expedient. of
course leaving the Ecclesiastical Corporation firmed in
the Diocese to dispose of the sum• so invested, as in
every other case, for the benefit of the parochial clergy.
Having now stated the several prepesitione which he in-
tended to submit to the House, he had only to add, that
be was sure the House would agree with him in thinkine
that ti e several conveyances to be made up under these
B 11. ought to he freed born stamp duties, auction duties.
sod fees for searches in the Registry Office. Such immu-
nity wee, no doubt, a great indielg• nee, but the object was
so important, that he was sore Hon. Members would agree
ith him that such a sacrifice was well worth while ma-
king. These were the whole of the measures which he
intended to submit to Parliament fer the purpose of sna-
king a final adjustment of the Irish tithe system ; and the
House would perceive that the whsle three Bills, when
introduced, would hear upon each other at the same time ;
that the House could not fail to gee that the fir.t and
second might be adopted and carried into beneficial effect
without eny aid whatever from the third Bill. Though
three Bills were all but parts of the same measure, yet
they were not so far neceseari'y connected as that ore
might not produce beneficial effects without the others. A‘
to any further measures with respect to the Church, as to any
other appropriation of its funds, he certainly did entertain.
,opinions individually which be should be very slow to
abandon. There was no man more anxious to be instru
mental in bringing about Reforms of the acknowledged
abuses existing in the Church. He should be most anxious
to see a greater equ ility established than at present was to
be found amongst the members of that body ; he desired t,
see a closer approximation between the incomes of the la-
borious and the dignified clergy. He wished far an ar
rangement which would confer a reasonable competence
upnn the humble curate, which would inererve the number
of benefices, and diminish the number of unions. which
would spread throughout Ireland a resident Protestant
gentry, useful not only as clergy, but as gentry spending
their incomes—engaged in works in which they were never
bickward, of kindness and of Christian charity. They
would he, he observed, in such circumstances, not only a
body of clergy. but a set of individual* supplying the place
of the absentee proprietors. He was aware, that in effect-
ing the changes which under these Bills it was intended to
bring about, the promoters of such measures should pro-
ceed with boldness, though at the same time not without
caution ; but respecting this there could not he a semi.,
opinion, namely—that whatever changes might be required
in Church government, must he brought about by the in-
strumentality of the Church itself; but he should, never.
the less, be the foremost to effirin that it was the right andh
duty of the Legislature, and in the highest degree ineunne
bent upon it, to take the Pad, if the Church itself did_ not.
in rectifying abuses—in correcting the distribution ofpro-
perty—in confining it to ecclesiastical purposes...;-in re-
moving a well known cause of discontent, arising out of
the payment of church cess and rates by . Catholics
(Hear, hear.) He was sure that ti,e, clergy of the
Est delished Church would rejoice in, be ng relieved
from that responsibili'y to their succ-eeors which arose
from their possessing their present powers, and hence he
bail no doubt they would gratefully hail a measure which
wouhri strip them of those powers. The charges to which
he alluded were certainly of tr tl,ng amount, but they
were a s'-urce of continual irritatien—of endless opposi-
tion—of petty jobbing, disgrace-till alike to all the parties
concerned, and lie was sure univereally offensive to the
tier- y themselves. As a meane of removing this grie-
vance, he looked to a fund arising from the First Fruits.
It was necessary be should observe, that the First Fruit
Fund in Ireland was upon a footing altogether different
from what it was in England : here it was used for the
purpose of augmenting snail livings—there for the pur-
pese of repairing and rebuilding religious edifices in place.,
where the church cess was inadequate to such a purpose.
Steps he thought might be adopted for rendering the First
Fruits Fund more productive ti an heretofore, and better
fi't.d to supply the place of the church cess, so fertile a
'puree of heartburning and discontent. He hoped that,
in laying these plans before the House, he had succeeded
in at,st ining from any violent or angry expression, in
thus treading trpon ground most delicate, and, he might
add. most. dangerous. Viesving it in that light, he en.
tee ted the H use, in the discussion tnat might• ensue,' lo
proceed with all calmness and temperance, for the measure
w t., which they were engaged was one which deeply
affected ti e peace and tranquillity of behind, a measure
by which it was hoped that a good understanding might
be establish ed between the Protestant clergyman and the
Roman Catholic clergyman, for it would be r fleeted to
all clasper of Protestants and Catholics, and thus might
they at length leek forward to the time • hen religious
disseneien nr ohs tie firelight to a close.—(Hear, hear.)
Ile concluded by moving for leave to brine. in a Bill to
amend the provisions of the Tithe Composition
ext-nd those provisions—and to render them permanent
and compulsory; also a Bill to establish Ecclesiastical
Corporations in the several Dioceses in Ireland.
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN should be extremely sorry
to t' row any difficulties in the way of the measure plat
Right Hen. Gentleman, or in the way of any measure re
his Majesty's Governan nt. He denied that the Composi-
tion Act was founded in justice, or that tithes could he
converted in..) a fair land tax. The tithe composition
act was a measure that had exactly filed. The firsti-p
position to tithes arose ina compounded parish. His fa-