The Sun.
London, England, 1832-08-13 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, AuGlisrli•

The House met at three o'clock, and was shortly af-
ter summoned to the House of Peers, to hear the Royal
Assent given by Commission to several Acts of Parliament.
Mr. SAI)LER presented a petition from the borough of
Leicester, in favour of the Factories' Regulation Bill.

Tee Chancery Sinecure Offices Abolition Bill was read
a third time and passed.
Mr. SPRING RICE, in moving the third reading of
the Stage Coac es Bill, informed the Hon. Member for
Glasgow, that the Noble Lord (the,chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) ba•l authorised him to exempt steam carriages
running on tl:e road from duty, in compliance with the
wish of the Hon. Member.

Mr. DIXON thanked the Noble Lord for granting this
exemption.

After a few wordy from Lord ALTHORP, the Bill
was read a third time.
The West India Relief Bill was also read a third time.

Mr. SADLER presented a petition from a parish in
Yorkshire, in favour of the Factories Bill; also from a
place in Warwickshire, against free trade, and complain-
ing of the absence of protecting duties; from the city of
York, against the Government plan of education in Ire-
land ; from the Society of Quakers of Chesterfield, in the
county of Derby, from Ainsworth, and from Hulme, in
the county of Lancaster, in favour of the Factories Bill.
The Hon. Member gave notice of his intention to bring
forward the Factories Bill next Session, with certain
amendments and additional clauses.

Mr. JERNINGHANI presented a petition from Not-
ting• bill, in the parish of Pooterfract, West Riding of
Yorkshire, for the better observance of the Sabbath, and
aga;nst Beer Houses.
Mr. HUGHES HUGHES presented a petition to the
same effect from the Mayor and Aldermen of hingston-
upon• Hull.
Mr. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from an indivi-
dual named Popjoy, stating that he had saved the lives of
15 persons who bad been pieced upon an uninhabited island
by pirates, at ho had seized upon the colonial brig Cyprus.
It was true that he had at the age of twelve years deserted
from the navy, and had afterward, been seduced into being
accessary to the the:t of a horse, for which he had been
sentenced to 11 years' transportation—that 13 years of that
period had elapsed, that he bad maintained throughout the
whole of it an unimpeached character, and that he had by
the most unexampled bravery and toil succeeded in rescu-
ing those unfortunate persons from an untimely end. An
application had been made to Lira! Goderich upon the
subject, and the answer was, that the applicant might
address himself to the Government of Van Diemen's Land.
He begged to call the attention of the House to the fact
that a sum of 700/. had been given to the sailor Jeffries,
and upon that fact alone he felt that the case of the peti-
tioner might be allowed to rest.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, that the present case had been
brought tinder the consideration of the Admiralty, and
they, considei ing that Popjoy was not only a convict, but
had a certain mark attached to his name in the books of the
Admiralty, which they could not but regard as coming
within an order that it would be highly inexpedient for
them to rescind, and feeling, that, consistently with such
an order, they could not order him any reward, they found
it impo,sible to do otherwise than dismiss his application.
They were quite ready to admit his gallant conduct ; and
they regretted that the regulations of the Admiralty would
not allow of their giving him those substantial marks of
their approbation which they wished. The present was a
case which, though it could not he entertained by the Ad-
miralty, was well worthy the consideration of the Treasury.
Petition laid on the table.
ELECTORS OF WESTMINSTER.

Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said he had then a petition to
present from a numerous body of his constituents, who
held a meeting last night at the Crown and Anchor Ta-
vern. He feared that his Noble Friend would think his
worthy constituents very persevering in not being satisfied
with the explanation of the operation of the Reform Bill
which his Noble Friend had already given. They con-
tended, and, he thought, upon very strong grounds, that
the effect of the Bill, in its present form, would be to
disfranchise a very large proportion of those who had
hitherto had votes in the city of Westminster ; it must
therefore give rise to great and extensive discontent.
Throughout many Parliaments he had had Cie honour of
sitting as the Representative of a city which contained no
fewer than 18,500 electors ; should be be returned to
the next Parliament it would only be as the Represeota-
tive of the comparatively small number of 4,000. In
the parish of St. John, out of 1,791 electors, not more
than 554 had paid, which left 1,237 without votes. In St.
Paul's, out of 519 only 298, and 251 had not. In St. Ann's,
out of 1,403 only 535 had paid, leaving 868 without
votes. In St. James's out of 3,032 only 891 had paid,
leaving 2,141. Those four parishes yielded a total of no
more than 2,268. In the parish of St. Margaret from 600
to 700 voters would he disfranchised, and he feared that
the great parish of St. George, which include" Pimlico
and Chelsea, would he in a similar situation, as well as St.
Clement Danes. The electors of Westminster, he was
sure the Noble Lord would agree with him, would he
amongst the last to make any complaint against the Re-
form Bill, had they not been driven to do so by the situa-
tion in which it placed them, and they not only entertained
apprehensions for themselves, hut fur the electors of the
whole county, nearly one-fourth of whom would be dis-
franchised by the new Bill. That surely was an injus-
tice which the promoters of the measure never Contem-
plated, and he, therefore, trusted that some mode might he
devised for remedying the evil.
Lord ALTHORP---The new right of voting did not do
more than alter the time at which the rates were to be
paid up. Formerly, in all scot and lot places the rates
must have ken paid before the election ; the only differ-
ence now was, that they must be paid at the time of re-
gistration. The old test of qualification had been retained
in the new Bill, and he confessed he saw no reason suffi-
cient to make a change necessary ; and if the electors
found themselves, as they said, disfranchised, they had
only. to attribute the circumstance to the fact of their not
having Rod up their rates in due time ; for they certainly
should have nothing to complain of in any instance where
it would be shown that the rates hsd not been demanded.
Suppose a dissolution of Parliament had taken place, and
that the day of election happened to be fixed for that upon
which the payment of rates had been fixed, would not the
electors have been placed in that situation of which they
now so loudly complain ? He confessed he did hear with
great surprise the statement which his Right Hon. Friend
hadjust made, for he was utterly unable to understand
how so large a proportion of the electors of Westminster
could be disfranchised. He could not conceive how, in
the wealthy parish of Sr.. James's, there could be 2,000
householders who had not paid up their taxes; and he was
sure that upon inquiry it would turn out that there had
been much misapprehension and exaggeration.
Colonel EVANS differed almaether from the Noble
Lord who had just sat down ; he had no doubt that as
many as one-fifth of the ole constituency of the country
would be disfranchised. He really wished that a question
of that iroportaoce should be met in the front, and the
country should not be allowed to go to an election in the
present state of the constituency. He hoped that Govern-
ment would not so far forfeit the confidence reposed in
them, as to let things remain in their present state.
Lord ALTHORP—The old scot and lot voters were
liable to pay at the hustings ; and if the present rate had
been demanded, and the rate-payers had refused to dis-
charge the rat., he did think that they bad no great rea-
son to complain. As to forfeiting the confidence of the
country he had only to say, that if he were unfortunate
enough to do, he had at least the satisfaction of thinking
that lie had carried the Reform Bill.—(Cheers.)
Colonel EVANS explained, he did not extend the for-
feiture of which he spoke to the confidence of the country
on subjects in general.
Mr. H. HUGHES suggested that the Boundaries Bill
admitted of alteration in the present Session, and it being

part and parcel of the Reform Bill, it followed that that
toa might be altered.
Lord ALTHORP did not take that technical view of the
subject, and he believed that, technically, the lion. Gen-
tlernan was wrong ; he that, however, as it might, hr
would not think of bringing forward any such measure in
such a state of the House.; he meant with such a thin at-
tendance as they at present could c.nnmand.
Mr. WARBURTON would rather have such a ques-
tion decided by a Parliament to which the places in sche-
dule A returned no Members, than in one constituted as
e' e present was. -
Mr. H. GURNEY said that much confusion was to
have been expected on the first general election after so
extensive a Reform as that which had taken place. There
were many electors who wished to avoid being called
upon to vote, and he confessed himself one of the number;
therefore it was no matter of surprise that so many of
them had avoided paying up their taxes.
Sir F. BURDETT said he felt the evil of which the peti-
tioners complained as much as any of them, but it WAS no
easy matter to obviate the dificulty. The Hon. Gentle-
man who had just sat. down had spoken of the indifference
manifested by several electors, who in fact had, by their
omission or refusal to pay taxes, disqualified themselves; he
merely hoped that they were very few in number, for such
indifference betrayed an atsence of public spirit, of which
he should be slew to snake"' his countrymen. Of this
there could be no doubt, tbat the provisions of the Reform
Bill relative to this subject had created a great sensation
in the city of Westminster, though he did not exactly see
how the step which had been taken could be retraced.—
There was much, he thought, in the suggestion that the
clause in the Boundary Bill enabled them to make altera-
tions in the Reform Bill; but after all, he really thought
they could make those alterations without the Boundary
Bill ; for though the words referred to had often been intro-
duced into Bills, yet many other matters of mere surplus.
age had been introduced in Acts of Parliament, and those
words might, upon inquiry, turn out to be an idle addition,
having no force or effect in tying up the hands of Parlia-
ment. The public bad calculated upon the Reformed Par-
liament being elected by a large constituency, and they had
a right to the redemption of that pledge.
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE, in reference to what had fallen
from his Noble Friend, observed that there would be
great difficulty in proving that the demand for taxes had
not been made. The city of Westmins er would not be
quite in schedule A, but it was rather too much to tolerate
such a degree of confusion at the first election, as would
disfranchise so large a proportion of the constituency of
such a place as Westminster.
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Sir J. GRAHAM presented the report of the Select
Committee on the subject of West India Slavery.—To be
printed.
Mr. EWART presented two petitions from places in
Ireland, against capital punishments.