The Sun.
London, England, 1835-05-26 00:00:00

(77,
/

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, MAY 26, 1835. v .

farmer, and immediate relief was what he required. Indeed,
it was the duty of the House to brave all difficulties, and to go
to the root of the evil. It would be found that the contrac-
tion of the currency was the root of the evil.
Lord J. RUSSELL began to address the House in a very
low tone. He had always witnessed the Noble Marquis to
bring forward his motions respecting agricultural distress,
whatever Ministry might be in office, coolly and deliberately,
and he had no doubt bona fide, with a view to draw from
Government some expression of opinion respecting the burden
of taxation under which the farmer laboured. On the present
occasion he would not impute to the Noble Marquis any mo-
-- hut that of a sincere desire to promote the cause he had so
_
ably undertake... 1- of the Noble Marquis, and of the
, - With regard to this motion, however, it was
avowedly, both in the ham.. .
must fall heft of af-
Noble Lord who seconded it, one
fording that relief from distress the farmer -2'uired: The
Noble Marquis stated the farmer was labouring unue': very
great distress, and he proposed a relief' of' local taxation. It
was not proposed that that should go beyond the amount of
surplus revenue stated to have been in hand by the Noble
Lord, and afterwards by the Right Hon. Baronet, the two late
Chancellors of the Exchequer.
The Marquis of C HAN DOS did not bind himself to that.
Lord J. RUSSELL observed, that though the Noble
Marquis might not in terms have bound himself to that, he
must consider, that as neither the mover nor the seconder of
the resolution had made any other distinct proposition—as nei-
ther of them had brought forward either of those two great
questions—the commutation of taxation, or the alteration of
the currency—he would consider the present discussion limited
to the extent he had stated. During Earl Grey's Adminis-
tration, a Committee was appointed to inquire into the agri-
cultural distress of the country. That Committee was very
fully attended by many gentlemen connected with the landed
interest, and the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Cumber-
land was Chairman of it. The Committee, after a laborious
investigation, made a report, which ended in saying that they
reckoned more on the forbearance than on the active interposi-
tion of Parliament, in order to effect relief to the distressed
agriculturists. That certainly was not recommending any
very active relief of any very extensive kind. The report made
another assertion, the accuracy of which no person could doubt,
and which went to the very foundation of agricultural distress,
namely, that while the outgoings of the farmer were consi-
derable, and the price of his produce much diminished, the burs
dens, consisting of county rates, and so on, had very much in-
creased. This undoubtedly was the case. In 1791 the general
average of wheat was about 475. ; in the beginning of 1793
it was forty-one shillings. In the years 1833 and 1834,
the prices had not been very different ; and he had
been informed that the present average price was be-
low 40s. While the prices had come back to what they were
in 1792 or 1793, the present burdens were very much more
heavy and oppressive. Instances of this were given in the
eport of the committee appointed on this subject last year,
some of which the Noble Lord detailed. He would observe,
with respect to the report of the sub-committee that was also
appointed, that report stated that the expense of the prosecu-
tions which took place—the prosecutions being of a public na-
ture—ought to be defrayed, at all events in part, by the public,
and recommended that the expense should be the expense of
the assizes, and not of the quarter sessions. To that proposi-
tion there was the objection, that such a system would hold
out a direct inducement to commit prisoners to the assizes and
not to the quarter sessions, although perhaps an answer to
that might be, that it would be necessary and requisite to dis-
tinguish between offences. There was another question in re-
lation to this subject of the very highest importance, upon
which the recommendation of the committee could not be
adopted without the very fullest consideration—he meant the
expediency of introducing a public prosecutor into all our trials.
From all he himself had heard, L-e was inclined to think that it
would much improve the practice of the law if they adopted in
some respect that practice. But still it ought not to be adopted
and partially,
and at once; it should rather be introduced gradually
partially, by way of experiment, at first. But there was an-
other reason for not adopting the conclusion of the Select
Committee. In considering the proposition made by that
Committee, it appeared that they might in another way give a
relief greater than that which they had contemplated. For
instance, that Committee proposed to relieve counties from
the expenses incidental to assize prosecutions, to the amount of
67,000 f. ; from the expenses of convicts, to the amount of
15,006/. ; end with respect to county-rates and expenses at
quartet...session' to the extent of 64,0001., making in all
146,0001. INio;:' the
proposal which he had to make was to
take the half of that
whole sum, including the expenses of
assizes and quarter-sessions,
zrid pay one half of it out of the
the course
Le
general revenues of the State. we understood the Noble
•dible tone. in which
Lord, but the extremely indistinct and
he spoke rendered it frequently impossible for us,
of his speech, to catch even the general purport of his
bser-
vations.) With regard to gaols, that question was alreaay
before a Committee in the other House of Parliament, and
might properly be made the subject of a separate Bill. It was
the intention of Government to propose such a measure as
would insure uniformity cf discipline, and when that great
object had been secured, it would be time to consider whether
the expense should in part be borne by the public. Before he
left the subject of county-rates and the recommendations of
that committee, of which he bad the honour of being a mem-
ber, he might be permitted to mention that very great and
important economical improvement which would result from
the appointment of a finance committee of magistrates in
every county, by insuring a regular audit and examina-
tion of accounts, and by taking, when it was necessary,
a new valuation. Of this lie would only mention a single
instance which had happened within his own personal know-
ledge, that in the county of Devon the expenses of felons
Ind prisoners had been actually reduced three-fourths by the
efficient superintendence of such a local finance committee—a
measure which could in all cases be carried into effect by
cities themselves without the aid or intervention of Parliament.
He had now explained the views he entertained with respect to
county-rates. The local burdens which pressed peculiarly
upon agriculture might be divided into county-rates, tithes, and
poor-rates. With respect to the commutation of tithes, it had
been undoubtedly under tile consideration of Government, and
it had indeed been agreed to bring forward some measure on the
subject; but great difficulty was found in making a compul-
sory settlement of the question, dependent as it must be upon
the ratio of payment for a certain number of by-gone years.
The Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel), for the purpose of
,voiding all the difficulties which enveloped the subject, pro-
posed to introduce a Bill for the voluntary commutation of
tithes. He ( Lord J. Russell) did not, however, think that
such a measure could be generally carried into effect, and espe-
cially in those places where the greatest irritation prevailed.
What he should have to propose upon that subject was, that a
-,elect Committee should be appointed, embracing various
Members from different parts of the country, representing the
various interests of those who were liable in particular districts
to the payment of tithes, for no compulsory measure could be
droperly and finally settled unless it were examined by some
I,ody of men before whom the various claims and interests of
the different tithe-payers were fairly heard. There was ano-
ther topic to which the Noble Lord adverted—poor-rates, from
the law in reference to which, that had been passed last Ses-
,ion, he did not seem to think much relief had been given.
Now upon that subject he very widely differed from the Noble
Lord. All the information which he had received was of pre-
cisely an opposite character and tendency. Although tilt: Peer.
Law Amendment Bill was only partially in operation, an
would not come into complete and general operation for some
ime, yet, so far as averages could be taken, there was a con-
iderable diminution of the burden of poor-rates, and the re-
lief which had been afforded was of a kind which he thought
must be considered most satisfactory. Ile had some statements
upon this subject, which had been drawn up with great atten-
tion and care, and with all the experience which the commis-
sisners were possessed of, which tended to show practically the
working of the new Poor Law Bill. For instance, there was an
average taken of 165 parishes in Berks and Sussex, in which
the expense of maintaining the poor for the year ending March,
1834, was 79,4981., and during the same period, till March,
1835, the charge was only 69,4331„ showing a diminution of
no less than one eighth. If this great diminution could be
reckoned on generally, which he thought, when the Bill was
in complete operation, he might fairly expect, there would be
a saving of not less than 1,000,000/. to the country. His
expectation was, that before long he should be able to state
there had been a diminution to that amount, and in that par-
ticular direction no one could doubt it would be of the very
highest value. But what was of more importance than even
the amount of money saved was the moral effect which the
operation of the Bill had on the character, particularly, of the
agricultural labourer. The great evil which had been fully
acknowledged by all who had practically studied the question,
was the vast quantity of what had been called surplus labour,
which the farmers were obliged to give to those half sup-
ported by the parishes, and whom they would not otherwise
have employed. It had been found in many parishes, that no
sooner was it proposed that those labourers should, in place of
country, being supported by the parish, go to the workhouse, than the
greaterad not
ry, part of them immediately found employment. They
hbut becomewer
evagra
employednts
by orl lawless efsasrmpersons
conducted
them-
selves th
e
coi
properly, and received increased wages.--( Hear.)
Such were the effects he had expected from the change
effected in the poor laws ; those who formerly received
money for work which to the farmers was worth abso-
lutely nothing, many of them being men whom the
farmers could not employ, were now really employed,
the farmers finding their labour highly beneficial. He
would give only one more instance' of a parish (Bledlow,
as we understood) in the county of Bucks, with which the
Noble Lord was acquainted, where by order of the commis-
sioners it had been proposed that a number of paupers then
unemployed should go to Manchester, whither they had, in
fact, migrated, and were now receiving double their former
wages. Twenty more were now anxious to follow their exam-
ple, and the burdens of the parish had actually been reduced
more than one half. Such was the nature of the information
he bad to communicate to the House with respect to the
working of the Poor Law Bill, from which the Noble Lord
( Chandos) seemed to expect but little relief. For his own
part, he had felt that the Government of the day, in introducing
such a measure, were not certainly adopting so popular a
course as if they had taken off 2,000,0001. or 3,000,0001. of
taxes ; but ultimately he felt persuaded a more beneficial effect
would be produced by it than by any such reduction, while
the value of labour would be materially augmented, and the
condition of the peasant most extensively improved.--( Hear,
hear.) When the Hon. Member for Oldham brought for-
ward his motion on the subject, lie should be pre, eared with
materials to lay before the House, by which, on tha evidence
of the
Commissioners, he should be able to shew what the
actual operation of the Bill had been ; and he believed he
shovld then be able to establish that, so far from its befits a
Bill, as the Hon. Member chose to represent it, tending
to make the independent labourer live on worse and cearser
food,
it was calculated, on the contrary, to raise the cha-
racter, and i • mpros e the wages of the labourer, making
him feel in its true value and importance that independence