The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-26 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY).
The LORD CRANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'cicock. •

PRI BUSINESS.
The following billsV, ATE
th on e motion of Lord REDESDALE,
were read a second time :—Bridport Railway ; Droitwich
Roads; 'Hinckley and Melbourne Roads; Ringwood,
Christchurch, and Bournmouth Railway ; Cowes and New-
port, Isle of Wight, Railway ; Stokes Bay Railway and
Pier.

bills
. '
The following bills were read a specond and third time and
passed :-_Earl Vane's Estate, Portsmouth New Dock,
Brecon and Merthyr-Tydvil Junction Railway, Charing-
cross Railway, London, Brighton, and South-Coast Rail-
way, and Lands Improvement-Company.
LORD LYNDHURST AND MR. BRIGHT—THE
NATIONAL DEFENCES.
Lord LYNDHURST—I wish to ask the noble duke op-
posite (the Duke of Somerset) a question. But before Ido
so your lordships will perhaps allow me to make a few ob-
servations on a matter personal to myself. My lords, I am
informed that an hon. member, supported and backed up by
a noble lord in another locality, if I may so express myself,
ha's made certain charges against me with reference to what
fell from me the-other night in the course of the discussion
upon the defences of the country. One of those charges is
undoubtedly true. The hen. member stated that I was an
"old man," or an "aged man," or an "old peer," for there
are varied readings of this classical attack. (Laughter.) I
can only sok that I must plead guilty to that part of the
charge, while at the same time I cannot but admire the sar-
casm so pointed, so keen, so bitter, so creditable to the taste
and talent of the hon. gentleman who made this extraordi,
nary discovery. So much for this part of the charge. Another
more serious part of the charge was to this effect, that the
doctrines I laid down were not doctrines at all suited to the
present day, to the present enlightened state of society, that
they were referable to a period of, I think, 60 years back, or
some such period. But, my lords, this part of the charge I
must bring to your recollection is perfectly unfounded, and,
if I may venture to say so, perfectly untrue. For what was
the course of observation I pursued ? It was the most
simple course that any man could have adopted. I re-
minded your lordships that hitherto we had been in.a state
of perfect security at home and ab:)o.d with respect to' our
honour and interests, in consequence of the superiority of -
our navy. That' was my statement. I went on to say
that naval warfare had assumed a new shape,,and a shape '
of, such a character that it was impossible for us-to-say
with akifiden2a that we could rely upon—such a state of
security. And I called upon your lordships and upon-the
Government to do everything in their power to put the
country, both in its military and naval defences, in such i
state as ' would restore us to the security that we have
hitherto enjoyed. (Hear.) I entered, perhaps, too much • .._
into detail, but I never deviated for one moment from
that line of argument. Ido not believe that there is a con-
scientious man in this country, except the individual to
whom I have referred, and who made this charge against
me, who would differ in opinion from what I stated. Ido
not believe that any man who has the heart of an English-
man would have dissented from that statement. My, lords,
it is very well for Englishmen inprivate life, when they are
smitten upon one cheek, to turn the other cheek to the
smiter. But that is not my feeling, and least of all ought it
to be the feeling of a great and powerful nation. I might
cite a passage from an eminent orator—an Athenian orator
—which I think somewhat in point. He says in substance,
"Nations build large fortresses and lay out great sums of
money for that purpose, but there is one common bulwark
which every prudent man will take care to maintain. It is
the great security of all nations, particularly of free' States,
against foreign despotic power." He goes onto ask, "What
is this ?" The answer he gives is, "Distrust, distrust. Be
mindful of that, adhere to it, and you will be free from al-
most every calamity." I thought it right, perhaps neces-
sary, to give this explanation, as to the substance of what I
stated the other night in contradiction of those unfounded
charges which have been preferredagainst mein the locality
to which I refer. The question I have to put to the noble
duke is this—l am sure the noble duke will not think it re-
quires any previous notice—whether he is aware that the
French are arming their fleet on the other sideof the Chan-
nel with rifled cannon ? I put this question because from
the reports I have heard it would appear that the rifled can-
non we are preparing will not extend to above 100 in the
.present year, and 200 in the following year, whereas it is
said the French rifled cannon are manufactured with such
rapidity that they will be able to arm their fleet in that
mode long before we can make use, to any extent, of the
rifled cannon of Sir W. Armstrong.
The Duke of SOMERSET, who was barely audible in
the gallery, was understood to say that the noble and
learned lord's explanation of what he said en a former occa-
sion did not agree with the impression which the noble
and learned lord's observations on that occasion made on
his (the Duke of Somerset's) mind. He thought at the
time that the noble and learned lord added to his observa-
tions many remarks which were necessarily offensive to
other nations. He thought the noble and learned lord might '
have given the advice which he tendered on that occasion,
and which came with such weight from a person of his high
authority, without mixing it up with language necessarily
offensive to susceptible nations abroad. That was the ob-
jection which he made to the noble and learned lord's re-
marks at the time. With regard to the question put by the
nOble and learned lord, he had only to say that of course he
had heard the report, though that report was not based on
any authentic information in his possession, that some rifled
cannon had been prepared in the arsenssls of France. He
was aware also that although we had very many improved
cannon in the course of manufacture, our cannon would not
be, according to our system of manufacture, ready for many
months to come. But that was not the whole matter. There
were many questions connected with the subject to which
the inquiry of the noble and learned lord referred. He did
not, however; think it desirable that he should now enter
into a discussion of the questions connected with the im. -
provement of cannon, which were now under the considera-
tion of the department to which they properly belonged.
He therefore must decline to follow the noble and learned
lord into that discussion, to show what we had done in that
Vey in answer to what the noble and learned lord imagined
the French had done.
Lord LYNDHURST—I think the observations made by
the noble duke are utterly unfounded. I put this question ;
I said—persons will ask me, perhaps, whether I did not
place confidence in the promises and assurances of the Em-
peror of tne French ? I said—Let every man answer that
question for himself, as he may think advisable ;
for myself, I answer it in this way—l will not
trust the liberties of this country, its honour, and its in-
terests, to any declarations or promises of any friendly
Power, or of any Power whatever. I will rely on my own
power, on my own resources, on my own vigour, and on the
strength of my own right arm. I will not rely in particular
on the Emperor of the French, because, from his situation,
I think he cannot rely on himself. These are the only ob-
servations of which I am aware that ever fell from me on
the occasion in question ; and I appeal to your lordships
whether there is anything that any man, however sensitive,
can complain of in the remarks to which I have alluded.
(Hear, hear.)
The subject was then allowed to drop.
NATIONAL EDUCATION.
Lord BROUCHAM, who had previously given notice
of his intention to call the attention of the house to the peti-
tions from London, Worcester, and other places, presented
himeducation,
on
said,
former
inrising
evening,todo
so,
o nthe
hisb
subjectneleand n
of nationall e
re
learned
friend (Lord Lyndhurst) was not the only member of athat
He
house respecting whose age remarks had been made.
(Lordßrongham) himself was also a sufferer from such
observations.

Lord LYNDHURST—I don't admit that I am a suf-
ferer. (Laughter.)

Lord
andß
learned
(resuming) was glad to find that his
noble BROUGHAM
did not suffer from such remarks,
R 0
no more did he (Lord Brougham). It had, however, UG H f
cer-
tainly been said, though not "elsewhere," but by a person
now in high office and authority in the East, that he had
grown gray in talking of education, Ile did not suffer from
that language any more than his noble and learned friend.
Nevertheless he (Lord Brougham) must plead guilty to the
circumstance of having grown gray. He must, however,
continue to follow the course which he had pursued for so
many years, in Parliament and out of Parliament, with
reference to the question of education. •He had the honour
of presiding over the celebrated Education Committee
which sat in 1816, 1817, and 1818, by whose labours
the subject of national education was invested with an
importance and an interest which it had ever since
sustained in the public mind. On the recommen-
dation of that committee he introduced a Bill into
Parliament, but was prevented from proceeding
with it on account of the objections of the Dimenting body,
who had always been his most able coadjutort c in the cause
of education. They had objections to that particular mea-
sure, however, and from regard to their wishes b e withdrew
it from Parliament. A long time elapsed befor oan oppor-
tunity presented itself of again pressing the subject on the .
attention of Parliament, but he might mention. that before
1818 there were in England 19,400 day schools, and 5,400
Sunday schools, the former educating 671.,000, and the
latter 525,000 children, and thatbefore a single farthingwa
paid for the purpose by the State there were being educated
in day schools 1,500,000, and in Sunday schools 1,250,0
children. The noble and learned lord then traced
tbethe
pro-
gress of the grants for education under the.auspice
g of
ification
Committee of Privy Council, and expressed. his g.rat
in
which had latterly taken. place
at the great improvement
the administration of the plan. Another plan had b eon pro-
f
ed would not be lost sight o
posed, however, which he hop
—that of empowering town councils to levy an 01 location
rate in towns under
their control, and by mean s of the
rate to educate the children of any religions d enen tination,
to decide upon the kind of religion
leaving the parents
which should be taught. The pert/ boners
a
as a general proposition that the 1 niddle
lid it do their children
classes had /a
the same right to attention fro. the Go vern-
meat and Parliament as the working clasf,es.. The t ipper
classes and their schools could take care of themse Ives.
The schools of the working classes had, r alder the system
established by the Committee of Council on Educatio a, ob- •
tained the advantages of inspection, of tide training of mas-
ters, and of pupil teachers ; so that while abolishing we had
suppliedthe place of the monitorial klystem, a3ainst which