The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-26 00:00:00

GREENWICH HOSPITAL.

Sir C. NAPIER said that as Sir Ds Lacy Evans had a
motion for the appointment of a commission, consisting of
civilians and military and naval officers, which was to be
brought forward that evening; he thought it would be more
convenient if his motion for a commission to inquire into
the management of Greenwich Hospital was postponed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
hoped the hon. and gallant member would postpone his
motion, and that course, he assured him, would be for his
(Sir C. Napier's) interest and the convenience of the house.
Sir C. NAPIER consented to postpone his motion.

THE DISTURBANCES ON BOARD HER
MAJESTY'S SHIPS.

Mr. LIDDELL asked the Secretary to the Admiralty,
relative to certain disturbances alleged to have taken place
recently on board her Majesty's ships Liffey, Ca3sar, and
Hero.

Lord C. PAGET said that the Admiralty were desirous
of giving full information on this subject, and he had re-
ceived reports from the officers commanding the vessels
in question, from which it appeared that though some dis-
content was expressed in consequence of the sailors not
obtaining leave to go on shore, there was no ground for
any apprehension, as order was now restored. The noble
lord read the reports in confirmation of this statement.
THE CAPTAIN OF THE PRINCESS ROYAL.
In reply to an HON. MEMBER,
Lord C. PAGET declined giving the name of the
commander of the vessel in question, on board of
which it was stated that flogging had' been resorted
to in an impropor manner. The gentleman in ques •
tion was an old and meritorious officer, and it would
be most unfair to parade his name before the public.
If they desired to maintain the efficiency of the naval ser-
vice, they must also maintain its discipline, and therefore
flogging could not at present be abolished. No doubt, how-
ever, it would eventually die a natural death, and it would
not be wise to strangle it.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that the name of the officer alluded
to was Captain Bazely, who denied that his conduct was
open to censure.
After some further conversation, the subject dropped.
SUPPLY.

The house then went into committee of supply.
On the vote of £93,924, for the department of science
and art,
Mr. CONINGHAM moved that the vote for the
National Gallery of £15,985 be reduced, by £650, charged
as travelling expenses.
After a few remarks by hon. members as to the removal
of the site of the National Gallery to Kensington Gore,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
whatever rumours might be current on the subject, no step
had been taken for the removal of the site of the National
Gallery, and the Government had given no grounds for
these rumours. He thought nothing would be effected by,
striking the item out of the estimates unless they ap-
pointed a commission to inquire into the subject.
Mr. BLACKBURN moved that the grant for the main-
tenance of Kensington Gore be discontinued, and he re-
marked that there was no part of their fiscal system that
required to be more carefully watched than the votes
relating to such subjects.
Lord HADDO, on the vote for salaries in schools of art,
moved that the payment for undraped models be disal-
lowed. He strongly deprecated the practice of using these
models, as being injurious to public morality.
Mr. LOWE said there was no vote for -undraped
models.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER trusted
that the discussion would not be pursued on the ground of
public morality.
Mr. ADDERLEY considered the models were indispens-
able to the complete study of art.
Mr. SPOONER advocated the withdrawal of the grant
to the Manchester School.
Sir J. PAXTON bore his testimony to the admirable
manner in which the Kensington-gore Museum was con-
ducted, and he contended that the institution had been the
mean° a imProving the taste of the working classes. The
estimate for the purposes of science was at first only
£40,070; it had at present risen to L 93,000, and he thought
£200,000 could be profitably expended in this department.
After some discussion the motions were withdrawn, and
the vote was agreed to.
On the vote of £169,468 for Irish National Schools,
Mr. MAG U I RE called attention to the so-called improved
scale of pay for teachers of national schools. The national
schools m Ireland were conferring great benefit on the juve-
nile population of Ireland, numbers of whom were acquir-
ing &roue? their medium the rudiments of education. He
strongly objected to the relaxation of the rule by which secu-
lar and religious teaching were kept separate, and it had
already the effect of shhiaekrai;gi u
na considerable
eierggrants
a. t dheeg rsye es t
otheoonis ehonnade
nlotscatolitsciehs
file-nee of the
bmeaenin' maintained ed thatused to
certain
Romanapplicationsca
tforho re
sec-
tarian or, at all events. very frivolous grounds. The hon.
to the subject of his motion, and
cited the statement of c
member then adverted o tent authorities to show that
the present payment of the teachers of the national schools
in Ireland was quite inadequate, and that its insufficiency
was working very injuriously. 5,000 teachers were trained
in these schools, but in consequence of emigration and
other cause 2,000 of the teachers in theseschtohoelsseattepareehseenrat
were untrained. The original payment to
was £27 a-year, and the increase amounted only to LI, £2, or
£1 a-year.
Mr. GEORGE admitted that the payment of the class
alluded to was inadequate. He referred to the fact that in
the conspiracy detected in the county
ofKerry a large
number of that class were implicated. lie considered that
circumstance showed that the duty of national inspection
was very inefficiently performed, notwithstanding that it
cost the country no less than £22,500 a-year, and that a
slim of £15,400 annually was expended on the commission
and its staff of officials in Dublin.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said that tht present subject
was one of considerable delicacy. He thought it was very
necessary that there should be a class of well-conducted
and well •informed men to instruct the juvenile population
of Ireland. He also considered that house aecoramcdation
should be provided for these teachers, some of whom were

at present compelled to reside a long distance from_ the
schools; and he thought the resident gentry of the country
,might do much to remedy this defect.
Lord FERMOY defended the school teachers from the
.charge of being disloyal, merely because a few members of
that class had been concerned in the Phcenix conspiracy.
He agreed with hon. members that the payment of the
school teachers in Ireland was insufficient, and therefore
impolitic. In his opinion the denominational system, as it
existed in this country, was inapplicable to Ireland, and he
advocated the reconstruction of the present system, and the
appointment of a board, with a minister of education at its
head, to whom should be confided not only primary and
collegiate, but also intermediate, education.
Mr. GROGAN agreed with hon. members that the sti•
pends of the Irish schoolmasters should be increased.
Mr. LABOUCHERE also concurred as to the propriety
of an adequate income being provided for those engaged in
the important task of instruction. He hoped that in their
attempts to improve education in Ireland all classes would
unite to preserve and perpetuate the present system, which,
notwithstanding some defects, had worked admirably, and
was one of the greatest boons which this country ever con-
ferred on Ireland.

Mr. CARD WELL considered that there should be a
better provision made for schoolmasters in Ireland, but at
present that would be impossible. He reminded hon. mem-
bers that the vote was merely a stipend to aid the object of
national education in Ireland, and he assured the house
that the Government would attend to whatever suggestions
were made to them, and if discussions were conducted in
the same dispassionate manner that characterised the pre-
sent debate he had no apprehension of this important ques-
tion being satisfactorily settled.
Mr. WILLIAMS said he did not object to liberal grants
for educational purposes.
It being 10 minutes. to 4 o'clock the hon. member was
interrupted, and the house adjourned till 6 o'clock.

The house resumed at 6 o'clock.
In reply to a question from Mr. E. JAMES,
Mr. C. FORTESCUE said that the papers for which the
hon. and learned gentleman had moved on the 12th inst.,
relating to proceedings at Hongkong, would be presented to
the house, with the exception of papers referring to occur-
rences which took place 10 or 12 years ago, and with the
addition of certain documents not mentioned in the ad-
dress, but which it was thought would tend to explain the
transactions.