The Sun.
London, England, 1859-04-19 00:00:00

Europe, but with the greatest possible risk ? Is it not, too, ]
likely, in the condition in which armed men stand, almost •
within rifle shot of one another, that some accident may ,
happen—some pure casualty having no relation to the
policy or intention of any PoWer concerned, which may
have the effect of lighting up the conflagration which, once
lighted up, cannot be extinguished ? (Hear.) If this be so,
I humbly urge it on the Government as a strongreason why
they should not allow themselves to be kept back from the
commencement of negotiations by any difficulty of a formal
or ceremonial character, but should, on the contrary, acce-
lerate to the best of their power the commencement of
these discussions from which alone, as far as we can see,
there is an expectation of any general settlement likely to
lead to the permanent maintenance of peace. There was
another passage in the speech of the right hon. gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequer with respect to which I
should, if he had not himself already used the epithet with
respect to Sardinia, have said it was ambiguous or, at least,
capable of a construction which I do not think the right
hon. gentleman wished to be put on it. The right hon. gen-
tleman said—and these two things were stated in connexion
with one another—that the port of Trieste was not an
Italian port, but belonged to the German Confederation,
and, secondly, that if this war should commence, and if it
should extend beyond the bounds of Italy, there were
material and substantial interests which in that case might
have the effect of making England a party to it. (Some
cries of " No.") Ido not know whether I represent inac-
curately the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
but certainly there appeared to me to be a connexion be-
tween the two things as they stood in the right hon. gentle-
man's speech—first of all, that Trieste was not an Italian
port, and, secondly, that if the war went beyond the bor-
ders of Italy, then the question might assume a new aspect
for England. lam far from putting on what has fallen from
the right hon. gentleman any construction which would
imply that the Government were about rashly and hastily,
under any circumstances, to involve this country in parti-
cipation in such a war. There may be many difficulties,
and the solution of the Italian difficulties is, I fear, not to be
attained by any one measure which may be said to be easily
within the reach even of a Congress. The people of Eng-
land are, without doubt, greatly impeded by the nature of
the obstacles with respect to any wish or expectations they
may have formed in regard to the future ; but there are two
circumstances in respect to which the mind of the nation is
perfectly clear ; first, that the peace of Europe may be
maintained; and, secondly, if peace is maintained, that it
may be maintained by arrangements which shall have some
tendency to a mitigation of the evils which afflict the Italian
peninsula—(hear, hear)—because no peace could be sub-
stantial or permanent which, resting on the deliberations
and decisions of the great European Powers, does not affirm
and effect something in the interests of suffering humanity.
(Cheers.)
Mr. CONINGHAM did not think that the observations
of the hon. member for Finsbury were justly obnoxious to
the censure of the right hon. gentleman the member for the
University of Oxford. Those observations were in accor-
dance with the sentiments of the English people, who had
seen with the deepest concern the frightful misgovernment
which prevailed in the Italian Peninsula, and which was
created and prolonged by the direct interposition and con-
stant pressure of Austria. (Hear, hear.) He did not think
that the explanation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
was so satisfactory as that right hon. gentleman seemed to
assume it to be, for it only came to this,—that Austria and
France had agreed, not to a virtual disarming, but to make
that the first point of discussion in the approaching Con-
gress. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been able
to say that owing to the diplomatic interference of the
British Government Austria had consented to evacuate the
Italian provinces, and that France had also consented to
evacuate the Italian provinces, and that the Papal Govern-
ment and the various dynasties of Italy were left to square
their accounts with their own populations, there would then
have been some ground for satisfaction. The explanation
given that night led him to the conclusion that war was
only temporarily postponed. He could not allow the dis-
cussion to close without declaring how warmly the English
people sympathise with the sufferings of Italy.
Lord J. RUSSELL—If I did not follow my noble friend
the member for Tiverton, as my hon. friend the member for
Finsbury seemed to expect, it was because in the first place
I concurred so completely in all my noble friend said, that
I did not think it necessary to trouble the house with obser-
vations which could only be repetitions of what they had
heard before ; but in the second place I must say that I feel
so deeply the responsibility attaching to any statements
made in this house, that I was reluctant to drop any obser-
vation, however reserved, which might have the slightest
tendency to interfere with our prospect of the preservation
of peace. I felt that during this discussion that not only
on account of the danger to which the Chancellor of the
Exchequer alluded, namely, the danger that any war which
began in Italy might spread into a European war, but also
for the sake of Italy herself it was most desirable and es-
sential that the peace of the world should not be broken.
(Hear, hear,) And I say this not merely with respect to
the material prosperity which will be trampled under foot by
the tread of armies, hut I speak for the sake of that consti-
tutional government which has been established in Pied-
mont, and which has succeeded so far beyond all that had
been expected by the friends of liberty. (Hear, hear.) That
government bids fair to extend over Italy the benefits of a
representative system, and can hardly be expected to stand
if the sovereign be engaged in conflict with qn enemy far
more powerful than himself, and be in consequence obliged
so to burden his people as to make them discontented and
impatient with their free institutions. It is for these reasons
that I do not feel called upon to enter at length into this
discussion, but I will add a few words to what my noble
friend has said on two points which arose in the statement
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. First, as to the ad-
mission of Sardinia into the Congress ; and secondly, on the
point which is mainly connected with it, namely, the dis-
armament. With regard to the first part, I quite feel that
her Majesty's Government may be embarrassed by the dif-
ficulty of submitting a proposal different from that whioh
has been offered by Russia and acceded to by France, but
at the same time this only gives me occasion to lament the
change made at the Congress of Vienna from what had
been the previous practice. Formerly the public practice
of Europe was that whenever there was any Congress con-
vened, all the Powers concerned, whether large or small,
were admitted to what is now confined to the five great
Powers. In old times we found Sweden and Holland en-
gaged with us, and taking as much part in the Congress as
any of the great Powers, but unfortunately at the Congress
of Vienna the five great Powers, aided by their large naval
and military forces, made a sort of monopoly of their discus-
sions on European affairs. It will be a great misfortune if
that precedent cannot be departed from. The right hon.
gentleman quoted two precedents which led the other way,
and I think it would conduce much towards the peace of
Europe if we could now follow them. (Hear, hear.) Then
comes the next question of the demands of Austria, and
first as to the general disarmament. I cannot wonder that
Sardinia should insist on a seat at the Congress, when the
disarmament is to be discussed, and on being allowed to
know the grounds upon which such disarmament is asked
for. It appears to me that there is something new and
very inconvenient in the way in which this proposal of dis-
armament has been made by Austria. There have been in-
stances without number of different powers having matters
in dispute undertaking preparations for war in consequence,
but as soon as those powers had settled the points in dis-
pute, provision was always made for mutual disarmament.
'Chat appears to me to be a most convenient course, for how
can we regulate a disarmament without we know how many
new fleets or armies have been raised ; and, in the next
place, it is hard to expect that those powers will disarm un-
til the questions for which they are contending haver been
put in a fair way of being settled. They may say, This
Congress may end in peace, or it may end in war, and e
arewe
sure that peace will be maintained." (Hear, her.)
appears not deprive ourselves of the means of war unartil w
appears to me to be the reasonable course of proce .0 ,
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notcau saee,tiifnyg in
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disarm, but if the principles of peace were first determined
on, then all would find large armaments a burden, and
would be anxious to get rid of them as soon as possible. I
must own, therefore, that in my opinion preliminaries of
peace ought to be settled before Sardinia is called upon to
disarm. With regard to the point in dispute, we have
never heard exactly from Government what were the de-
mands which were made by any of the powers, for what
reason it is that the Emperor of France declared himself not
to be on good terms with Austria, or what exactly were the
demands which have been made on the latter. We have,
it is true, seen a paper signed by Count Cavour, but we
have no certain knowledge that it contains the demands of
Sardinia. I cannot think they would be inserted in that
paper, and therefore we may be said to be still ignorant of
what it is that endangers the peace of Europe. The Go-
vernment not having made any communication on this
point, I think it would be imprudent to go into the question,
but for the present must leave the matter in their hands.
Of course, it will be for Parliament, when it has all the
papers, to judge of the conduct of the Government, but at
present all I can say is to express my hope that Govern-
ment will not enter into any engagements which may be
burdensome to the country unless Parliament shallbe sitting
and shall be a party to such engagements. I think it is not
too much, now that Parliament is about to be separated for a
considerable time, to expect that no such engagements may
be made. But if, on the other hand, the Government be in so
'favourable a position as the right hon. gentleman informs us
it is, and if, being naturally impartial and desirous of the
union of Austria and Sardinia, the righthon. gentleman be
able to conciliate both these powers, he will have performed
a great service to Europe, and no man will more than my-
self rejoice at his success. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. M. MILNES said that disarmament was not what
was wanted,
bnt the withdrawal of the Austrian ariAyr.di
Sardinia
Be-
sides, disarmament was a different question with
all par
to what it was with Austria. The army ofSardinia wats sof
national army, composed of volunteers from
Italy, and a proposal to them to disarm might lead
lomacY out of the
these commotions which would p
question. He trusted ut dip
that the interference of England in to one of
narrowest bounds.
relief of the Italianpeople
If the congress met to discuss the.r
.t
the matter would be confined within the
f sembled merely to
ition very little advantage would
exhibit the conflicts of amb
Of Austria had been dictated,
some good might come of it, but fa.
result. He believed the policy
but to
and to bring the whole of the Austrian
tem of centralisation,
not by any desire to oppress Italy,carry out a
provincessys-
in • to one homogeneous whole, which, considering
the diverse elements of which the Austrian dominions were
compose
was impossible. The question the congress would
have to decide was, how far the idea of Italian freedom and
independence was practicable under the existing treaty ar-
rangements. He did not say it would be possible, but if the
attempt was made to give to the Italians a share in the go-
vernment of the Austrianprovinces of Italy, to employ them
in public offices, and to maintain internal tranquillity by
means of an Italian army, Austria would be at least able to
say to posterity that she had done what she ought to have
done in the first instance, and which, if she had, Italy
would not have been, as for many years she had, a stand-
ing menace to the peace of Europe. This was all that
England, as one of the parties to the treaty of Vienna, had
a right to enforce upon Austria in the congress. It ought
not to be forgotten that in 1815 England was mainly
instrumental in pressing upon Austria to annex• Lombardy
and
Venice to her dominions, which she was very reluc •
Cant to do; and he was informed that the Emperor
Francis, when the matter was urged upon him, objected to
the annexation of any territory beyond the Alps, on the
ground that it would exhaust the empire without bene-
fiting it. It was to be regretted that the objections of
Austria at that time had not received more consideration,
for there could be but little doubt if in that arrangement the
nationality of those provinces had been preserved the state
of things which now existed would never have resulted. He
hoped that the statesmen who would represent this country
in the forthcoming Congress would not attempt to ignore
the national feeling that had unquestionably grown up in
Italy—a feeling which had nothing radical or revolutionary
in it, but in which men of property participated as intensely
and displayed at least as great a degree of interest as those
who had no property ; for unless the Congress not only re-
cognised, but turned its attention to the organisation of that
feeling its deliberations would be worse than useless. With
regard to the admission of Sardinia as a member of the Con-
gress, he believed that if she were excluded the whole thing
would be perfectly illusory, The people of Italy would