The Sun.
London, England, 1866-03-24 00:00:00

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STAMPED sd.

affected with the disease. An order had been issued that
morning interdicting the importationV cattle from Hol-
land.

THE AMENDMENT TO THE REFORM BILL.

WANT OF CONFIDENCE IN THE MINISTRY.
The CHANCELLOR of the -EXCHEQUER —I have to
move that this house, at its rising, adjourn until Monday,
the 9th of April, and I think it may be convenient, in
making the motion, that I should state, with reference to
the course of public business after Easter, the view which
the GovernMent take of some important motions which
have been placed on the paper, and particularly—l do not
mean with regard to argument, but with regard to the at-
tention of the house—particularly in regard to the motion
placed on the paper by my hon. friend the member for
Bridgewater (Mr.Kinglake). That motion is in the form of
a question to me bearing upon this subject. My hon. friend
in his motion asks whether the Government would take
into consideration in the Easter recess the expediency of
proceeding by resolutions towards the settlement of the
question of the representation of the people. I have to say
that having introduced a bill for the purpose of dealing
with the franchise of England and Wales, our intention is to
persevere with that bill, but we do not intend to proceed
by way of resolution: (Cheers.) Then, sir, I come next to
a motion of which notice has been given, and which will
be moved as an amendment upon the second reading of the
Reform Bill by my noble friend the member for Chester
(Earl Grosvenor). Ido not know whether the noble lord
is in his place to-night ; but with respect to that motion I
would simply say that I speak of the mover and of the
motion in quite different senses. (Laughter.) No one who
knows my noble friend can ever speak of him in any other
terms than those of respect and regard— (hear, hear)—but
motions andmovers are very different things—(laughter)
and in speaking of his motion I have to state that it is the
intention of her Majesty's Government to resist it. (C 'r
They will resist it upon the double ground—first Of all, that
it is a motion which, so far as they are enabled to judge,
says one thing and means another—(cheers)—and, secondly
that it is in their judgment a direct vote of want of con-
fidence in the existing administration. (Cheers and coun-
ter cheers.) Then there is another motion upon the paper,
with which the name of the hon. member for Bridgewater
is associated. The motion of the noble earl is to be moved
upon the second reading of the bill, but the other motion
refers to what is to be done in the interval between the
second reading and the committee upon the bill, and pre-
sumes the second reading to have the assent of this house.
Sir, with respect to that motion the terms of it are :
" That it is not expedient to go into committee upon the
said bill until this house shall have before it a separate bill
for the redistribution of seats." Perhaps I may remind the
house of what we have already stated, or rather of what I
have already stated with the authority of the Government,
and on their behalf, that we consider it a part of the obli-
gation we have undertaken to deal with the redistribution
of seats—(cheers)—and we have given it as our opinion
that this question may properly be dealt with by the Par-
liament which now exists. My noblfriend, in addition to
that, asks for specific information upon this point, which
wo are not unwilling to give him. After the second read-
ing of the bill, and before the committee upon it, we shall
be prepared to state distinctly to the House of Commons
our intentions with regard to the franchise of Scotland,
the franchise of Ireland, and all the questions connected
with the redistribution of seats. (Cheers.) We wish to
convey those intentions in the form which will be most
convenient to the house, and we shall therefore put them in
the form of bills, and lay these bills upon the table at the
same time. (Cheers.) I cannot state too distinctly to the
house that we are desirous above all things not to be mis-
understood; that our intention in laying these bills upon the
table is confined at the present time to the purpose which
I have named—namely, that of giving information to the
house. (Laughter and cheers.) We propose to proceed with
the bill relating to the franchise of England and Wales in
the manner in which I announced, and with the bill ex-
clusively, until its fate is determined. (Cheers.)
Earl GROSVRNOR said—l confess that the statement
made by my right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer somewhat surprised me ; but I hope I may be al-
lowed to thank him for the kind manner in which he men-
tioned my name in connection with the motion. Although
I consider myself implicated in that motion, and although
I do not desire to separate myself personally from it—
(hear, hear)—l believe I speak the feeling and conviction
of many hon. members of this house with whom I have
the honour of acting, when I state that any bill referring
to the representation of the people should be considered as
a whole—(hear, hear)—and I would beg to ask the right
hon. gentleman whether he still intends to proceed with
the second reading of the Franchise Bill before the house
shall have an opportunity of seeing whet the other bills
are which he proposes to lay upon the table?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Unques-
tionably.
Earl GROSVENOR continued—The principle of a bill
is generally considered to be taken on the second reading.
I believe that the principle of that bill and the principle of
the other bills are so intimately connected that I cannot
myself see that it would be possible dr statesmanlike to
take the sense of the house—(loud cheers)—on the second
reading of the Franchise Bill before the house should have
an opportunity of considering all those measures and the
whole of the proposals relating to the subject. (Cheers.)
Mr. KING L AKE said—The noble lord has just said that
the second reading of a bill is the occasion which Parliament
provides for the consideration of its principles. But it is
precisely for that reason that I proposed emotion carrying
to a later period in the existence of a bill the objection to
which I have referred. (Hear, hear.) The period when you
are considering the principle of a bill is the very last one
on which you are entitled to approach it by an objection
founded upon external circumstances. (Hear, hear, and
laughter.) I entertain quite as strongly as it is possible for
the noble lord to entertain an objection to the idea of
separating the question of the franchise from the question
of redistribution of seats—(hoar, hear),—and I have de-
termined that I will give effect to that objection, and that
I will give effect to it by my vote in this house, but that
I will choose my own time for submitting that objection
to the house. (Laughter.) It seems to me very clear that
the period of the second reading is the very last you can
choose for an objection of this kind. (Cries of No," and
laughter from 'be Opposition side of the house.) The
motion for leave to bring in the bill would have afforded,
I think, a better opportunity ; but the most appropriate
opportunity of all would bo that in which, after having
expressed our opinion on the principle of the measure, we
were invited to go into the consideration of its details. I,
for one, am in a situation which I believe to be common to
that of many gentlemen in this house—l am in the situa-
tion of having over and over again committed myself to
the principle which is to be confirmed by this bill. (Hear.)
And am I to follow the noble lord on that account so far
as to evade the opportunity of declaring my opinion on the
principle of this bill? (Hear.) 1 have only to say that I
have taken this mode of giving effect to the view which 1
entertain. I prepare for' myself an opportunity of asserting
the principle on which the noble lord has founded his ob-
jection quite as efficiently as he could do ; but I make that
consistent with the opportunity of voting upon the ques-
tion of the principle of the bill ; and I am not ashamed to
say that I am glad to find that I can make my view con-
sistent with a vote which will not be hostile to the party
with which-I profess to act. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Mr. OLIPHAN r—After what has fallen from the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer I hope I may be permitted to say
a few words with reference to the motion which stands in
my name for the 10th April next. That motion is one for
the collection of data and statistics which may enable us
to determine whether a redistribution of seats and an
alteration of boundaries may be necessary. I gave notice
of that motion, not for the purpose of embarrassing her
Majesty's Government, but from a wish to draw from them
a clear and distinct assurance that a bill for the redistri-
bution of seats is regarded by them as a definite and dis-
tinct part of a scheme of reform; and I am bound to say
that after what has fallen from the right hon. gentleman I
am satisfied—(ironical cries of " Hoar, hear")—that the
want of time, and the want of time alone, was the only
reason why the two bills have not been brought in toge-
ther ; and as I now find that he is prepared, concurrently
with the passage of the Franchise Bill, to collect data and
materials on which the other measure could be framed, I
do not feel that I am called upon to press my motion,
any
further. (Hear.) I shall, therefore, withdraw the motion
to•
and, upon the understanding that these further
he
proceeded
be collected and that the other measure
theis to
Franchise Bill.
with, I shall give my vote in favour
of
p Ms
tri.o
nD Is Si
side
Ao f
E theLl h
, whooos
er,osseaiamidst
itsh eperohjeee rtsh al the
tO pt
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change your line in theh
face of an enemy is always a very
an dlaugbhytetrh)e—cahndanlcecua6nrnooti
saPeyr thatperilous
ien
loptheriantkth—ceee(coursreeadopted
the Exchequer to-night
ascan learn from the statement
is any exception
much h
t e t thatesam principle.same
of
are
(Hear, hear.) So far
the right hon. gentleman, wo in
posi-
tion as we were before—(hear, hear)—we are called upon
to take a leap in the dark. (Cheers, laughter, and cries of
"No.") What is objected to in the amendment of the
noble lord who has just addressed the house, as I under-
stand it, is that the Government, having indulged in vague
and general allusions to alarge scheme, or to large schemes,
of parliamentary reconstruction, has favoured us with a
distinct measure upon only one part of the question—(hear,
hear)—and that portion one which in the opinion of the
noble lord, and as I believe in the opinion of a majority of
the house and of the country, could not properly be dealt
with unless we had before us definite information as to the
other portions of the subject. (Hear, hear.) Now,
the
right bon. gentleman does not at all pretend that we are
the
placed
when
hane
ny ohtehmeradpeoshitiisonstathzentth. atlvion whicharet weroweeeerde
With the bill respecting the franchise which °haps intro-