The Sun.
London, England, 1835-09-05 00:00:00

GOVERNMENT LOAN.

Mr. HUNIE, in pursuance to notice, moved the following
resolutions :

" 1. That the loan of 15,000,0001. has been borrowed by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the rate of 86/. 9s. sd.
money, for every 100/. in Consols, as follows, viz. :
He has given £75 Stock Consols, and
9.5 Reduced,

=£loo of 3 per cent. Stock for every £lOO, money;
Also, 13s. 7d. of Long Annuities,
terminable in 1860, equal in =£ll 7 1
cash to 161. 14s. 4d. for 11
And 3 months interest due on -
Reduced, viz., from sth April =_-- 0 3 9
to sth Jule on 25/.
Add a discount for prompt payment
of the 90/,remaining instalments= 1 19 9= 13 10 7
after payment of the deposits

Leaving £B6 9 5
in money, as the price of every 100/. of Consols, which is
equal to a rate of interest of 31. 9s. sd. per cent., or
31. 9s. 4 67-100 d.

"2. Which appears by the following statement of the amount
of stock, and the price of such stock given for every 1001.
cash, viz. :
For 751. Consols, at 86/. 9s. sd. £64 17 04
For 25/. Reduced, at 87/. 4s. sd.
For 13s. 7d. of Long Annuity, at 161. 14s. 4d
per 1/
And discount for prompt payment 1 19 9

£lOO 0 0

" 3. That the following charges on the Consolidated Fund
have been incurred for the said loan of fifteen millions of
money, as will appear on the books of the Bank of England,

Viz.:-

For 11,250,000/. of Consols, payable from sth
July, at 3 per cent.
For 3,750,000/. of Reduced, payable from sth
April, at ditto

Making a perpetual charge £450,000
And 101,8751. of Long Annuities, payable from
sth April, 1835, to January, 1860 ... 101,875 yearly.
" 4. That if the whole of the loan had been raised in one
Stock, and that Stock had been Three per Cent. Consols, at
the price above stated of 861. 9s. 5d., the gross amount of
Three per Cent. capital Stock added to the debt of the country
would be 17,346,8901., and a perpetual annual charge for the
same of 520,4061. 145., payable from the sth of July, 1835.
" 5. That if the whole had been raised in Reduced Three
por Cents. at the price of 871. 4s. 5d., being the difference of
15s. of interest added to the price of Consols, the amount of
Three per Cent. Reduced Capital Stock added to the debt
of the country, would be 17,197,726/., and a perpetual annuity
of 515,9311. 155., payable from the sth of April, 1835.
" 6. That if the whole loan had been contracted in Long
Annuities, payable from the sth of April, 1835, and terminating
in January, 1860, the annuity during that period would have
been 897,308/.
" 7. That if the loan of fifteen millions had been raised in
the New Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Stock, at the price of
97/. in money for every 100/. stock, and that the same discount
had been allowed for prompt payment as on the present loan,
this would have given a net price, after deducting discount of
95/. ls. 7d. in money for every 100/. stock; and, thereby, the
capital added to the debt of the country would have been
15,776,327/., and the perpetual annuity 552,171/. 95., payable
from the sth of July, 1835 ; being at the rate of 3/. 13s. Bd.
per cBe. n
That
. for
tmh
eo nceyap,
toarl 3s
t/ . 0
clk3,s . c
rie
a4t7e-dlObOyd.
the
present Loan of
15,000,000/. of money, when estimated in Consols, being
equal to 17,346,8901., and the capital if raised in a Three and
and a Half per Cent. Stock being only 15,776.327/., the in-
crease of the capital of the debt by the present Loan, as com-
with a Loan in the New Three and a Half per Cent. Stock,
is 1,670,563/.
"9. That if the Loan had been contracted in the New
Three and a Half per Cent. Stock, at the price of 97/., with
a guarantee against the reductien of interest for fifteen years;
and that at the end of that term the Three and a Half per
Cent Stock were reduced to a Three per Cent, the compari-
son with the present contract would be as follows :—.

To borrow in a3i per Cent. Stock
at the price of 971., reauced by xq 13 8
discount to 951. Is. 7d., is to pay "
interest at the rate of.
The present Loan is contracted for } 3 9 5
at the rate of interest of

Showing a greater rate of interest of £0 4 3 paid on the 311

per cent. Loan:
which difference of 4's. 3d. in the rate of interest is an annuity ;
and an annuity of 4,5. 3d. interest being reckoned at 3i per
cent. will increase in fifteen years to a sum of 41. 2s. ; which
some again interest being reckoned at 3 per cent., is equiva-
lent to a perpetual annuity of 2s. 5 d. ; and therefore suppos-
ing the per Cents to be reduced to 3 per Cents after fifteen
years, the amount will stand thus :
The rate of interest at which the present Loan is
contracted for is,
The rate of interest on a 3i per Cent.
Stock, reduced to a 3 per Cent. }.£3 0 0
Stock, is, at the end of 15 years...
Acid the perpetual annuity arising
from the loss of 4/. 25., being the
0 2
accumulation of the excess of inte-
rest of 4s. 3d. paid during 15 years

£3 9 5

= 3 2 51

Showing a difference of £0 6 11i
per cent. payable for ever after, on the whole fifteen millions,
as at present contracted for, more than would have been pay-
able if the loan had been raised as a 3f per cent. loan, as
stated in Resolution 7.

" 10. That the difference of 6s. 114 d. per cent. upon fifteen
millions constitutes a permanent annuity of 52,187/. 10s. ; but
this annuity, though permanent, after it has once begun, is a
reversion, the payment of which commences at the end( of fifteen
years, and the present value of which, interest being reckonod
at 31- per cent. during fifteen years, and at three per cent. for
ever after, is 1,038,3411. 12s.
" 11. That, besides the above loss to the public of
1,038,341/. 12s. arising from the difference of charge for the
annuity, there will be an additional loss to the public of
1,570,563/. by the increase of capital of the national debt, as
shown in the Bth Resolution.
" 12. From these facts it appears that if the Chancellor of
the Exchequer had raised the fifteen millions in a Three and
a Half per Cent. Stock at 971., reducible in fifteen years to a
Three per Cent. Stock, this would have been equivalent to a
net price of 92/. 9s. Id. for 100/. Consols, instead of the net
price of 861. 9s. sd. which he receives by the present. contract,
being a loss of Si. 19s. Bd. per cent. commencing from the
present time, and exclusive also of the increased amount of the
capital of the debt."

The Hon. Member was proceeding to offer some important
observations in reference to the Resolutions, when (observing
that Messengers from the Lords :sat below the bar) he proposed
they should be called on. This being agreed to,
A message from the Lords requested a conference upon
the Report of the Commons' amendment to the Letters Pa-
cent Bill.

This request having been agreed to, Mr. Warburton, Mr.
Attorney-General, Mr. C. Fergusson, Mr. Buckingham,
Mr. Price, Mr. C. Buller, and Mr. Tooke, were appointed
to conduct the conference on the part of the House.
The Managers having returned, reported that the House of
Lords had disagreed to an amendment made by the House of
Commons in the Letters Patent Bill.
The amendment was ordered to be printed, and to be con-
sidered on Monday next.
Mr. HUME then proceeded with his observations, which,
however, presented no feature not displayed in the resolutions
above gives. The Hon. Member concluded by moving the
first resolution, and stating that he should propose that the
whole of them be entered upon the journals of the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
complain of the subjecrbeing brought before the consideration
of the House, for, if the subject were of the magnitude his
Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) considered it, the Executive

Government were bound to pay it attention. If anything had
been done wrong, the House was bound to notice it, and the
motion of his Hon. Friend ought to receive its sanction. The
foundation of the resolutions, however, was not true ; but if,
contrary to his belief, they should prove to be true, he should
invite his Hon. Friend to move an address to his Majesty,
praying for his (Mr. Rice's) removal from office. The most
singular calculations of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, he
would demonstrate to the House and to the public, and he
did not despair of demonstrating, even to the conviction of
the Hon. Gentleman himself, that they were a tissue of fal-
lacies and false principle, based upon ignorance, riot worth
the paper on which they were printed.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman had said that a better bargain for the

loan might have been made in the Three-and-a- Half per
Cents. ; hut he had forgotten, or was unacquainted with
the fact, that he was foridden, by the words of the Act
of Parliament authorizing that loan, positively prohibited,
from taking such a course. If he could have adopted the plan
suggested by the Hon. Member he should have actually lost
more than he could have gained. Supposing the strange fal-
lacy propounded was correct, and capable of realization, such
a course would not only have been unusual, but subversive of
the law of all contracts, and no Member of Parliament would
tolerate its adoption. But the Hon. Member's resolution pro-
ceeded altogether on prophecy, and on what might be done
if such prophecies were fulfilled. He should advise that
none but prophets vote on the question:—( A laugh.) Had
he gone into the city with a proposition for a loan such as
advised by the Hon. Gentleman, he should not have been
able to find any one simple enough to lend him half-a-
crown. The Right Hon. Gentleman then referred to some
documents, the results of calculations by Mr. Finlayson,
tending to establish the superiority of the plan adopted,
and pointing out the disadvantages of raising the loan upon
any other securities. Until then he had not heard a ques-
tion raised as to the fact that the loan was contracted for
on the most eligible terms for the public. At the period
the contract was effected he had to contend with the high
rate of foreign securities. France yielded an interest 51. ls.
per cent., Russia 5/. 4s. per cent., and Prussia 51. Os. Id. per
cent. ; yet the loan of the fifteen millions was effected at a
per centage of 31. 9s. 6d.—( Hear, hear.) He mistrusted his
Hon. Friend as a calculator. His Hon. Friend must be more
perfect than usual if be were accurate in all he undertook.
The multiplicity of his avocations rendered it impossible.
Like the elephant, he was equal to any feat of strength with
his trunk, while with the same power he could display his dex-
terity in picking up a farthing.—( Hear.) From the launch-
ing of a ship to the West Indian loan, and from that to music
and dancing, were to him but simple transitions. He remem-
bered that in 1833, when his Hon. Friend was engaged in a
task somethin* similar to the present, in a calculation of six
millions his Hon. Friend made an error of three, taking the
gross for the net in one instance, and the net for the gross in
another. The House of Commons, he was sure, would not to-
lerate such a convicted plunderer, as he must be if the state-
ments of the Hon. Gentleman were true. But by the Act
of Parliament he could not have acted differently than he did
without creating a new stock. In conclusion he would say
that he would send a statement with the documents to Mr.
Finlayson, and bring the matter before Parliament next session,
when, if his Hon. Friend then thought fit to move for a vote of
censure, he should not oppose it. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man then said he should move, as an amendment, that the
terms of the loan of fifteen millions, as compensation to the
owners of slaves in the West Indies, were such as to afford a
satisfactory proof that the public credit had been regarded
with proper attention.
Sir J. R. REID said that, of all the extraor&nary state-
ments he had ever heard, the most extraordinary was that of
the Hon. Member for Middlesex, which he considered had been
completely answered by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. WA RBURTON thought that both the statement of
the Hon. Member for Middlesex and that of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer should be submitted to Mr. Finlayson.—
(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Hume.) 'He also thought that if the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had not power to create a new
stock the House would have passed a Bill for the purpose. He
hoped the amendment would be withdrawn.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
he should have thought it very unjust to have adopted any other
course than that suggested with regard to the documents on
each side.

Mr. P. STEWART was of opinion that the loan was as
good a one for the public as ever was contracted. He could
not support the hypothetical notions of so preposterous a
financier as the Hoy. Gentleman, who speculated on a state of
things that were to be fifteen years hence.

Mr. CHAPMAN never knew of a more beneficial or fair
loan, and recommended the Hon. Member for Middlesex to
withdraw his resolutions.

Mr. HAWES thought the public interests better attended
to with regard to that loan than they had been on any former
occasion.

Mr. PEASE considered that a good bargain had been
made for the cauntry, and there was every reason for congra-
tulation.

Mr. POTTER hoped that there would be no more loans,
and that the next subject demanding attention would be that of
reduction.

Mr. HUME -briefly replied.
The amendment was then put and carried.
Mr. C. HINDLE Y presented a petition from Warrington,
signed by upwards of 3,000 persons, in favour of the Dorchester
labourers; also a petition from Ashton-under-Lyne, signed by
2,200 persons, in favour of an extension of the suffrage, trien-
nial Parliaments, and vote by Ballot ; and also a petition from
Taunton, praying an equitable reduction of the National Debt.
Mr. C. BULLER wished to know whether it was the
intention of the Attorney-General to bring in his Bills in
the next Session for the reform of the Ecclesiastical Courts,
and to relieve the agricultural interests from having tithe
questions tried in those Courts, or in the Court of Exchequer?
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL answered in the affirma-
tive, and expressed his hope that in the next Session tithe
would be got rid of altogether.
Mr. C. BULLER moved for returns of all sums paid to,
and expended by, the Record Commission. It was his inten-
tion to oppose any further grant in the next Session.
The House then proceeded to the other Orders of the Day.
Mr. HUME presented several petitions, amongst which
some from Carmarthen and Dudley for the remission of the
tax on newspapers ; another from a place Aberdeenshire,
against any further grant for the building of churches in
Scotland ; and others on the subject of tithes, &c.
The House adjourned at a Quarter-past Ten o'clock.

FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE.

CROWN-OFFICE, SEPT. 4.

MEMBER. RETURNED TO SERVE IN TIIIS PRESENT PARLIAMENT.
BEr.rasT.—George Dunbar, in the county of Antrim, Esq., in
the room of John ➢l'Cance, Esq., deceased.

WAR-OFFICE, SEPT. 4, 1835.

4th Regiment of Dragoon Guards—Lieut. L. Place to be Cap-
tain, by purchase, vice Armit, who retires ; Cornet W. A. Rose to
be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Place; T. W. Yokes, Gent., to
be Cornet, by purchase, vice Rose, Sept. 4.
Ist Regiment of Dragoons—Lieut. J. Dalton to be Captain, by
purchase, vice Curteis, who retires; Cornet R. M. Croft to be
Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Dalton ; E. H. Lloyd, Gent., to be
Cornet, by purchasa, vice Croft, Sept. 4.
17th Regiment of Light Dragoons—C. F. Davidson, Gent., to
be Cornet, by purchase, vice Thompson, whose appointment has
not taken place, Sept. 4.
Bth Regiment of Foot—Ensign S. Browne to be Lieutenant,
by purchase, vice Bewes, whose promotion has not taken place ;
Ensign C. Harte, from half-pay Dillon's Regiment, to be Ensign,
without purchase, vice Browne, Sept. 4.
9th Foot—Lieut. S. Brownrigg to be Adjutant, vice Donnelly,
promoted, May 25.
10th Foot—Capt. G. Power to be Major, by purchase, vice Wal-
ler, who retires ; Lieut. H. Onslow to be Captain, by purchase,
vice Power; Ensign C. Harford to be Lieutenant, by purchase,
vice Onslow; J. Garvock, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice
Harford, Sept. 4.
14th Foot—Staff-Assistant-Surgeon J. T. Telfer to be Assis-
tant-Surgeon, Sept. 4.
39th Foot—Sergeant-Major J. Brannan, from the 28th Foot, to
be Ensign, without purchase, vice Deacon, appointed to the 61st
Foot, Sept. 5.
45th Foot.—Lieut. G. H. Clarke to be Captain, by purchase,
vice Landon, who retires ; Ensign H. A. Cumberlege to be Lieu-
tenant, by purchase, vice Clarke ; G. A. L. Blenkinsopp, Gent.
to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Cumberlege, Sept. 4.
48th Foot.-11. Bromley, Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase, vice
Dalrymple, Sept. 4.
64th Foot.—Lieut. C. 0. Leman to be Captain, by purchase,
vice Strongitharm, who retires ; Second Lieut. R. 13. Levett to
be First Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Bayly, who retires, Sept. 4 ;
Second Lieut. J. J. O'Neill Power, to be First Lieutenant, by
purchase, vice Leman, Sept. 5 ; Hon. J. E. H. Thurlow, to be
Second Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Levett, Sept. 4 ; R. I. Dan-
sey, Gent., to be Second Lientenant, by purchase, vice Power.
61st Foot—Lieut. E. Mac Donnell to be Captain without pur-
chase, vice Harris, deceased, May 6 ; Ensign W. F. Hoey to be
Lieutenant, vice Mac Donnell ; Ensign C. C. Dieacon, from the
39th Foot, to be Ensign, vice Hoey, Sept. 5.
67th Foot—Lieut. F. F. L. Dayrolles, from half-pay 18th Light
Dragoons, to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Bolton, pro-
moted, Sept. 4 ; Ensign W. Gomm to be Lieut enant, by purchase,
vice Dayrolles, which retires, Sept. 5 ; Ensign and Adjutant W.
Fisher to have the rank of Lieutenant, Sept. 6 ; Ensign J. Foott,
from half-pay 96th Foot, to be Ensign, vice Dacres, deceased,
Sept. 4 ; C. B. Hague, Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase, vice
Gomm' Sept. 5.
71st Foot—Lieutenant Sir H. Dalrymple, Fiart., from half-pay
Unattached, to be Lieutenant, vice J. Lawson, who exchanges,
rec eiving the difference, Sept. 5 ; W. Hope, Gent. to be Ensign,
by purchase, vice Strangways, who retires Sept. 4.
76th Foot—C. Fenwick, Gent. to be retires,
by purchase, vice
Warden, who retires, Sept, 4.
. _ _

80th Foot—Lieutenant G. Denshire to be Cal stain, by purchase,
vice Falconar, who retires ; Ensign W. F. Ch ristie to be Lieu-
tenant, by purchase, vice Denshire, Sept. 4.
82. d Foot—Lieut. C. S. Eustace to he Captain., by purchase, vice
Elliott, who retired ; Ensign T. W. Hornby to be Lieutenant, by
purchase, vice Eustace ; J. C. Maclachlan, Gent., to be Ensign,
by purchase, vice Hornby, Sept. 4.
89th Foot—Lieut.-Col. R. Doherty, from the Ist West India
Regiment, to be Lieutenant-Colonel, vice H.. R. Hartley, who re-
tires upon half-pay Unattached ; Staff-Assis leant Surgeon J. Gil-
lice to be Assistant-Surgeon, Sept. 4.
99th Foot—Ensign H. A. Ouvry to be L' eutenant, by purchase,
vice \Verge, who retires ; A. W. Reed, G, mt. to be Ensign, by
purchase, vice Ouvry, Sept. 4.
Ist West India Regiment—Lieutenant-C- )lonel W. Bush, from
half-pay Unattached, to be Lieutenant-Colt etel, vice Doherty, ap-
pointed to the 89th Foot, Sept. 4.

UNATTACHED.,
Liout. J. Bolton, from the 67th FOO%, to be Captain, without.
purchase; Ensign Sir H. Dalrymple, B art., to be Lieutenant, by
purchase, Sept. 4.