The Sun.
London, England, 1832-11-13 00:00:00

WAR WITH HOLLAND.

A meeting of the merchants, shipowners, and others,
anxious for the preservation of the pacific relations between
this country and Holland, was held this day at the City of
London Tavern, for the purpose of addressing his Majesty
upon that subject. The requisition calling the meeting
was signed,by a great many of the leading merchants of the
city, and among those present at the meeting were Sir
Thomas Baring, Mr. Mitchell, Mr. May, the Consul,
Mr. Richard Thornton, Mr. Raikes, Mr. Heath, jun.,
Mr. Ward, Mr. John Ray Reid, &c. &c.
THOMAS WILSON, Esq., took the Ch-ir shortly after
one o'clock.

The CHAIRMAN apologized for undertaking an office
which he felt himself ill qualified to perform,
but having been called upon by such a numerous
and respectable requisition, he should be unworthy the
name rf a British merchant if he had hesitated to
comply with their wishes.—(Hear.) The appeal to
him, he was aware, had arisen purely from accident.
The advertisement in the papers had explained for
what purpose the meeting had been called ; it was in
consequence of the unfortunate situation of the trade
with Holland, and of the offensive operations
now employed against that country; and it was in the
hope of staying those proceedings, or, if it were too late
to do that, to make known to his Majesty, to his Minis-
ters, and to the country, what the feelings of the citizens
of London were upon this momentous occasion.—
(Cheers.) He wished to observe that this question
was not brought forward from party motives, and
with a view to opposition ; nothing was further from
the object of the requisitionists—(Hear)—and, therefore,
he hoped that nothing like vindictiveness or party feeling
would be shown upon this occasion. It was impossible,
coming forward on such a subject, not to feel some degree of
excitation in treating it as a national question; but he hoped
that the m eeting would consider that, while they wished to
represent what was such a national calamity, they would
de it with moderation, but firmness. The accident which
ruled him to the chair was this :—Having had accidentally
in this room to propose a candidate for the City, in talking
of the sufferings of trade, he incidentally said, " And who
can say to what sufferings our trade was not liable to he
exposed by the present proceedings against Hollan.1:?"
Those words excited such a feeling, and such a sympathy,
that it was determined to convene the present meeting, and
he was, therefore, selected to preside at it.—(Hear,
hear.) The Honourable Gentleman then detailed the
various inducements for individuals of all parties to
agree to the resolutions which would he submitted
to the meeting. The inducements were first to those
whose property and prospects were placed in jeopardy by
the present detention of ships ; secondly, by those who
think that nothing had been done by Holland to justify
the aggression by England ; and, thirdly, those who felt
that England had nothing to gain, but every thing to
lose by the, reduction of Holland, while France had every
thing to gain by it.—(Cheers.) In the latter he most
entirely concurred, and to show that his opinion was not
a solitary one, he would read a passage from one of those
organs of communication to which the public were in-
clined to look for information. He then read a passage
from the letter of 0. P. Q. in the Morning Chronicle
of September 28, wherein the writer predicted
that the question between England and Holland
would close by Belgium being one day united to France.
—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible for any thing serious
to happen to Holland without at the same time weakening
our own power. That country was bound to us by sym-
pathy—by natural ties, and by a similarity of man-
ners, and, therefore, it was unwise and unjust to
weaken them, and turn them into an enemy.—(Cheers.)
Sir T. BARING-Gentlemen, I must ask your indul-
gence for a few moments, before I propose for your
adoption a motion I have in my hand, and I crave that
the more, because it is the first time I have ever
found myself in a situation like this, or that I have
ever addressed a public meeting. I come forward
'Ol no party man, and I consider this as no party meeting.
I consider it as invoked for no party purpose, nor is it
an attempt by any side-wind to attack the policy
of Ministers either foreign, general, or domestic. I
am not one of those who would attack in a place like this
the foreign policy of Government. It is best to leave that
for Parliamentary discussion—hut in the absence of Par-
liament, what are we to do?—(Cheers.) During the last
two years when any questions were put to the progress of
of negotiation,, they were answered by Ministers, that the
negotiations were in progress, that the interference would
he negotiations, and would in no event come to hostilities.
It is true that no direct motion has been made as to Bel-
gium, because that was left to Ministers who entered the
Cabinet with express pledges of non-intervention
(Cheers.) But where are we? When this Order of Coun-
cil was issued for an embargo on the Dutch ports,
and to prevent the sinking of British ships, why was Parlia-
ment prorogued to December, with the knowledge that it
could by no means meet till the end of January? During
that time commerce is left to uncertainty, and each mer-
chant to inquire of the other, what has Holland done ?
Has she violated treaties ? Has she attacked English pro-
perty, or put an embargo on English ships ? Has she
dishonoured the national faith ? Allow me to remind you
what Holland has done. The government of Holland,
since the revolution in Belgium, has diminished on
the staple article of England, its duties on cot-
ton gorses, on iron, and on coals, and established
to us a public advantage. Now, by what reciprocity do
we meet that? By an embargo on their ships.—
(Loud cheers.) Let me say it is not that thus we are
doing a mischief to Holland, but we are greatly injuring
ourselves. It was only yesterday that a merchant of exten-
sive business in the City, mentioned that two of his ships
were prevented sailing from Holland, and by that means
be was put to serious inconveniences. Let me mention
that, during the absence of Parliament, Ministers may have
good reasons for acting as they do, but they have no or-
gan of communication ; they acknowledge no newspaper,
and I will do them the justice to say, that it is not the
flimsy sophistry that has appeared in some newspapers,
that can ever justify their aggressions, but if they have
reasons for their attack on Holland, those mast)"
will be more substantial than the reasons and
grossutch p insultseopl —(w lei eh e r s .) have
v e Well offered to the
then, there is no
organ by which means, in the absence of Parliament, we
are to be told, why we are placed in this deplorable situa-
tion. It is said by some, that it is for the British interests
we are now making war—ask our under-writers whether
D
at the time when premiums on insurances were rising
every day, not merely on Dutch but on every other
exports—whether they think it better for 119 that this
country should go to war ? Ask the dealers in
cotton and iron, whether it is better we should go
to war. Ask those who will have to support a war—
a war iniquitous in principle, and for no British in-

terest, whether they think this measure calculated in any
way for their benefit ! But then we are told that
though it may produce a moment try stagnation of trade,
though it may produce temporary evils, yet that it is a great
object to have the opening of the navigation of the
Scheldt. Now, if it is considered as a great
object, it is nothing hut opening another door to the
same place which has heretofore been opened to us by
Amsterdam, the Rhine, and other places. If it be
said that it is opening a trade to Belgium, what
is Belgium to take from us? Belgium is a great
country—it has its own iron and coal—and there certainly
will he no Government so unpopular as Leopold's will be
in Belgium, if he does not protect his own subjects against
I the competition of the English market. It may be a
Belgian question ; but what is there in it that calls
on us to fight for Belgium rather than for Holland ?
Yes, but it is said, we must make Belgium
a kingdom. But has it ever been a king.
dom ? HAS it any ancient rights to maintain ?
Granting that it were a kingdom, it is only fighting to
strengthen France as against ourselves, and not
as against Holland.—(Cheers and hisses.) At the
very moment we are requiring that the Dutch
should yield to French arms—(Renewed hissings)—we
are rendering Belgium weak against her mighty
neighbours, whilst we are making her strong against
a feeble one. And yet all this is for British interest !
But then we are told again that we must make war. For
what reason ? Why, to prevent wae. I profess I am not
Irishman enough to understand this. I don't wish
to say any thing disrespectful of my countrymen
of the Sister Isle, but I do think, if it were not a
dangerous speculation we are called on to enter into,
this would prove to be the most absurd bull that ever was
committed. We are now to make war to prevent war,
which we have been trying to avoid for the last three
years. It is said it will be a short one. But the ques-
tion is, will it be a just one ? And who can say, when
once the torch is applied, that it will not occasion a most
extensive combustion? Again, it is said, this is a
question which has troubled us a long time, and now you
must settle it. But are you sure to settle it? Grant that
you take Antwerp ! I believe the French are bound to
evacuate Belgium, and leave Antwerp in the possession
of Leopold—is the question of the Scheldt settled by the
possession of Antwerp ? Does not Holland still re-
tain the entrance to the Scheldt? And if it should oppose
an objection to such entry, does the possession of Antwerp
settle that question ? By the possession of Antwerp you
do not settle that question—you do not settle the
tolls, nor do you settle the debt, for Holland
is threatened with a diminution of the debt—
you settle nothing—you inflict a dishonour on
Holland, and put Antwerp into the hands of the Bel.
gians. But it is said, if you do not make war now and
settle the question at once, it may occasion a general
war on the continent. I confess when I see three
Powers not prepared at present to coincide with us,
it is an important question for me to ask, whether,
after the taking of Antwerp, those three Powers
will then be more prepared to coincide with us ?
After the taking of Antwerp you may be obliged
to march your troops into Holland. You cannot
compel them to accede to your wishes by your protocols;
you must do so by force of your troops. Holland
may shut the Scheldt against you, how are you to act
then, except by coercion of Holland? And I do be-
lieve that we should he much more likely to
get to a war with France on that very point,
than on any other question.—(Hiesings, a cry of " Non-
sense," and cheers.) But has there been any particular
grievance occ isioned to us by Holland ? Have our vessels
been stopped ? our tolls increased ? Nothing of the sort
On the contrary, the Dutch Government has proposed to
conciliate in a way that ought to be satisfactory. As to the
conduct of our Ministers, I consider that Earl Grey was
put into office to correct the errors of the Duke of
Wellington, and not to follow them. But, I ask, did the
Duke of Wellington ever speak of coercion ? On referring
to the speech of the Duke of Wellington of the 2d Nov.,
immediately after the first revolution in Belgium, I find
that the Duke of Wellington positively as,ured the
country, that there was no intention on the part
of his Majesty's Government to interfere by arms,
with respect to any question with the Netherlands,
and that the desire was to settle disputes by negotiation,
and negotiation alone. Earl Grey on the same occasion
declared, " We cannot understand that we are bound
to interfere in any arrangement of a local
nature between Holland and the Low Country."
This took place on the 2d of November, scarcely a fort-
night before that Noble Earl took office. Now, Gentle-
men, if I am to choose between the words of Lord Grey
in 1830 and his acts in 1832, positively interfering by
sending an armed force, I should certainly prefer his words
in 1830. But it may be said this was only the private
opinion of Earl Grey, and that in forming a Cabinet he
was obliged to yield in some points; but, added to this,
I find Lord Althorp, in the House of Commons, follow-
ing the same course and adopting the same expressions
in substance. So also Lord Brougham in the House
of Lords; and I feel great pleasure in quoting the senti-
ments of so good and so excellent a man. He stated, Gentle-
men, that he regarded it as the duty of the Crown and the
Ministers to preserve peace for the people of this country,
and not to interfere with other nations.—(Cheers.) Have
Ministers, Gentlemen, performed that duty ? Have they pre-
served to the people of this country the blessings of
peace 2.—(Loud cries of " Yes, yes," and " No, no.")
This country could hardly be at peace when it
was open to the reprisals of Holland, and when Holland
can send out its letters of marque and interrupt our
trade. What was the expression, too, of the Marquis of
Lansdowne when speaking of the Treaty of Vienna ?
Why that Noble Lord had stated that he could not find
in that treaty the shadow or the shade of anything that
imposed upon this country any necessity to interfere on
behalf of the Netherlands. He thought, therefore, that no
other course could be adopted by the Government than a
total absence from all interference. Are these,
Gentlemen, words that are to be uttered to-day, and
to be revoked to-morrow ? Is it the policy of
his Maj sty's Ministers to turn, and turn, and turn
again ?—(Loud cheering.) It is said that Govern-
ment could not do any thing else—that things had come
to such a pitch that it wag essential for this country to
interfere. I think, Gentlemen, that it is pretty clear
that no such interference was necessary, and. it is
equally as clear that it will be attended with the
worst effects. There is some mystery, Gentle-
men, depend upon it, about all this. There is something
in the negotiations which we cannot unravel, but which
it will be advisable for Parliament to take into its consi-
deration. What could have induced his Majesty's Minis-
ters to have adopted the course they have, I cannot
tell. It has been said by some that they are determined
to go to war on account of the great surplus in the reve-
nue.—(Great laughter, and loud cries of Question, ques-
tion.) Mr. Baring here expressed his readiness to sit
down if the meeting wished it—but cries of Go on, go
on, from all parts of the room, induced him to proceed. If
it was surplus revenue that induced Ministers to adopt
such a course, I think they have acted very much like
schoolboys, who, as soon as they get a little money, feel
anxious to spend it in squibs and crackers for the purpose
of frightening their neighbours.—(Cries of " Question,"
and " Come to the point.") I see no interest connected
with this country or its commerce that Holland has
threatened, and why, therefore, are we to wage a war
against her ? The carrying on of such a war can have no
other object than the support of a ricketty throne in Bel-
gium, or a tottering Administration in France.—(Loud
cheering.) I trust, Gentlemen, that the mail which leaves
this city to-night for Holland will carry with it the sympa-
thy of the British nation by which that country will be en-
abled to see that the generality of the people here
do not approve of the course adopted by its Go-
vernment. Upon whom, Gentlemen, are we making
war ? Not upon an encroaching neighbour.--e(" No,
but a monopolizing one." Laughter.)—Not upon
a neighbour who had been hostile to civil and religious
liherty—not upon a neighbour who had opposed civilization,
for no one could doubt that, among the brightest ornaments
of this nation, was that part of its history where
it appeared to be so closely allied with Holland.—( Tre-
mendous uproar, and cries of " No war," " No Whigs.")
I hope, Gentlemen, the war which has been threatened
will not take place, as I am confident that it will end
in no honour or profit to this country ; and I most
fervently hope and trust that the sentiments of the pre-
sent meeting will be echoed through the country, and that
addresses from every part of it will be sent to the Throne,
calling upon his Majesty for the good of his country. to
avert the calamity in which so unadvised a step will in-
volve us. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by proposing
the following resolution :
" That this meeting has seen with deep concern and
alarm----(Laughter)—the appointment of a squadron of
British ships of war avowedly intended to co-operate with
the French force against Holland, end the Order in Coun-
cil to detain all ships belonging to his Majesty the King
of the Netherlands in the ports of this country, as well as
all persons on board of them."
Mr. MITCHELL seconded the resolution.
The CHAIRMAN put the resolution to the Meeting,
when an immense show of hands were held up in its
favour, and about forty or fifty against it.
The resolution was declared carried.
Mr. RICHARD RAIXES moved the following reeoludon

" That the hostilities thus threatened do not appear to
have been provoked by any injury inflicted upon British
interests, or by any insult offered to British honour."
Mr. FREE was happy that the meeting had beard the
opinions expressed by the scion of the house of Baring ;
and though those opinions were warmly expressed, they
would have their effect, for as no good resulted from a
cold poet, nothing good could come from a cold politician.
—(Hear.) The resolution just read stated that the act
of hostility on the part of England had not been
provoked by any injury to British interests, or
any insult on British honour. They had not
met there as a conclave of politicians, but either
as a set of merchants or as men most intimately identified
with British interests. That was not the time or place
for discussing political opinions. Whether the measures
be adopted by Lord Grey or any other Minister, if such
opinions were propounded he should heartily deprecate
them.—(Hear, hear.) That, however, would not pre-
vent them from being seriously alive to the national glory.
England had been called by the despot of France a nation
of shopkeepers : but he had found to his cost that they
were willing to sacrifice all to preserve the national glory.
In speaking of the resolution, he would not occupy the
time or the patience of the meeting by going into any long
disquisition of the law of nations, but he would beg their
attention to a sentiment in which all authorities, ancient
and modern, concur, that whether a war be a just war or
not—and none but a just war could have the support o'
honest men, there was a necessity of justly appreciating
the means and the motives for the war. That sentiment
could be illustrated from ancient as well as modern history;
for instance, some of the wars which Alexander carried
on were the result of the insults which the Greeks
received from the Persians, but the motive for the war
was avarice. In modern times, he would mention the
aggression on Poland, second only to which was this
aggression on Holland ; that would remain a stain
on the annals of British history. For his own part he
could not by any possibility conceive what were the justify-
ing means or the motive for making war against unoffending
Holland.—(Cheers.) An alliance with that country
(France) with whose arms we were now called on to blend
our own, was an alliance of the most unnatural character.
Ile would ask whether that could be a just or a ne-
cessary war that put every Englishman in this predica-
ment, that if he heard of the success of the British
arms he could not conscientiously rejoice—(Cheers)—and
defeat was the result, they bad not to expect that sympa-
thy which ought to be the sheet-anchor of every motive.
But he would put the question in a commercial point of
view, and he would ask whether our commerce was so
confined, or our ships and finances in that state
which would justify a war upon any principle but that of
actual necessity.—(Cheers.) Under those circumstances
they were met, to implore the British Government
not to enter on this war, but to suspend the present pro-
ceedings, and not force the country into hostilities, the
results of which, if victorious, could not be enjoyed, and if
defeated would produce misery.—(Cheers.) He im-
plored his Majesty to put a stop to these proceedings,
which could neither add dignity to hie Crown, glory to
his arms, nor happiness to his people.—(Loud cheers.)
A Gentleman in the orchestra wished to address the
meeting. On being asked his name, he said it was Ed-
monds ; that he was a Republican, and wished for no war.
Here the confusion that arose from a general cry of "'Turn
him out," from some, and " Hear him," from others,
induced the Speaker, after the noise had lasted some time.
to desist.

The CHAIRMAN said, that there was no necessity
for those gentlemen who concuared in the resolutions to ex
press their sentiments, for if they did, the meetingwould not
be over until to-morrow ; and those gentlemen who din
not concur, might abstain from addressing the meeting.
The object of their meeting was to explain and read th,
resolutions, and then to ask those Gentlemen who con-
curred in them to sign them.
Mr. EDMONDS again attempted to address the meeting,
but he could not be beard, and the Chairman having put
the resolution, it was carried.
Mr. TA LOll., a Common Councilman, then wished to
address the Chair, but the noise was renewed.

A GENTLEMAN said that the Chairman was bound to
hear all persons who wished to address therm, or else ii
would be called a party meeting.
( We shall give the conclusion in a Second Edition.)