The Sun.
London, England, 1835-05-23 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY SUMMARY.

In the tioutE of Lon last night several petitions were
presented, tothe Of them relating to the Church of Scotland,
but the Rouse was principally occupied with a discussion re-
specting the late procession in Dublin on the entry of Lord
MULGRAVE. An interesting conversation occurred respecting
the resignation of the Marquis of WELLESLEY, who distinctly
denied that he was induced to resign from any intelligence re-
ceived from Ireland,

In the CommoNs an animated discussion arose out of a mo-
tion for the second reading of the Liverpool Police Bill. Mr.
EWART moved, as an amendment, that the Bill be read " this
day six months," on the ground that it wits an attempt to saddle
the payment of the Liverpool clergy on all classes, and to
frustrate municipal Reform. Lord STANLEY and Mr. SIIEIL
came in collision. On a division the amendment was lost by
14. To Mr. ROEBUCK'S Inquiry, Whether any regula-
tion had been made to prevent soldiers off duty from
carrying side-arms, no definite information was given.
Some conversation took place on the subject of the Dissenters'
Marriage Bill, the second reading of which was on the orders
for the night. Lerd Join.; RUSSELL alluded to the objections
which had been made to some parts of it; but it was thought
better that the Bill should be altered in Committee. Lord
JOHN RUSSELL declined giving any answer to the question
whether Lord PALMERSTON was to be elevated to the Peerage.
(Lord PALMERSTON is a Secretary of State, and has not, yet,
a seat in either House.) Lord JOHN RUSSEL gave notice that
he should on Monday the Ist of June, move for leave to bring
in a Bill for the better regulation of Municipal Corporations
in England and Wales. The notice was received with cheers.
The Registration of Voters' Bill, on the motion of Lord JOHN
RUSSELL, was referred to a Select Committee. Colonel SIB
THORP asked if Colonel Fox was to be " transported " to
Canada. Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied that the Government
entertained no intention of appointing Colonel Fox a Cana-
dian Commissioner. The House then resolved itself into a
Committee of Supply, when several items of the Army Esti-
mates, and some Navy Estimates also, were voted.

MEETING.-(THIS DAY.)

PARISH OF ST. GEORGE, HANOVER-SQUARE

A public meeting of the rate-payers of the parish of St.
George, Hanover-square, took place at the workhouse, Mount-
street, this day, for the purpose of electing thirty-three vestry-
men and five auditors of accounts. The Earl of EUSTON,
Churchwarden, in the Chair.

The CHAIRMAN said the first business of the day would be
to appoint eight gentlemen as inspectors of votes, in the event
of a ballot being required—four to be appointed by the rate-
payers and four by the Churchwardens.
A RATE-PAYER proposed Mr. Morris.
Mr. MORRIS begged to decline. He did not wish to have
anything to do with parochial matters.
The CHAIRMAN said if the preliminary business was not got
through, it would be impossible for them to proceed.
Messrs. Houlton, Smith, Hanson, and Arbcr were then
nominated by the rate-payers, and Messrs. Barclay, Baker,
Smith, and Gooch by the Churchwardens.
The names of the 31 Vestrymen who were to go out in ro-
tation having been read,
Mr. ARBER proposed that these gentlemen be re-appointed,
with the exception of five. He thought they were entitled to
this compliment from the manner in which they had discharged
their duty. Two were dead, Mr. Snodgrass and Mr. Went-
worth, and in their room he would propose Mr. E wart,
the Member for Liverpool and the Marquis of Breadaihane.
He was not authorized to name these gentlemen, but last year
they had expressed their willingness to serve if they were
qualified. Mr. Thomas Duncombe having removed from the
parish was not now qualified, and in his room he would pro-
pose Sir C. H. Tracy, the Member for Tewkesbury. The
fourth name was Sir George Warrender, who had been out of
town for the last two years, and to his ( Mr. A.'s) certain
knowledge was not likely to return for a considerable time. In
his room he would propose the Hon. Robert Clive. There
were two tradesmen, Messrs. Duttereau and Ball, who were
anxious to retire, and in their room he would propose Mr.
Nash and Mr. Stewart.

The motion having been seconded by a Rate-payer,
The CHAIRMAN felt great pleasure in submitting this propo-
sition to the meeting, as the Vestry had not made up any list,
but left it entirely to the decision of the rate-payers. He wa!:
sure that the Vestry would be extremely gratified by the com-
pliment which he certainly thought they had merited, and which
had been paid to them, for the manner in which they had per-
formed their duties. He hoped, as Mr. Arbor had not nomi-
nated himself, some other gentleman would pay him the com-
pliment of nominating him.
Mr. ARBER begged to decline the intended honour.
The following list was then put to the show of hands, and
carried unanimously :

Hon. George Vernon, Thomas Wilson, Esq., Henry Noel
Turner, Wm. Ewart, Esq., M.P., Mr. Thos. Cundy, Charles
de Coetlogon, Esq., Mr. John Aitkins, Mr. Thomas Pos-
tans, Right Honourable George Robert Dawson, Edvirard
John Stanley, Esq., John Frederick Pinny, Esq., Mr. John
Gunter, Mr. John James Thornhill, Mr. John Smith, Mr.
Stewart, Thomas Bilcliffe Fyler, Esq. Mr. Thomas Hodg-
kinson, Mr. Bynan Wilkinson, Mr. Charles Edward Clarke,
Mr. John Leslie, the Hon. Robert Clive, Mr. William Gib-
lett, General Gascoyne, Mr. Nash, Mr. Giles Recineayne,
Mr. Harry Phillips, Mr. Steven Lewis, Mr. William Gos-
lett, Sir C. H. Tracy, M P., Mr Thomas Gill, Mr. John
Godlicut, Mr. Wright Ingle.
The CHAIRMAN said the next duty they had to perform was
the appointment of five auditors of accounts for the ensuing
year.

Mr. LESLIE knew a gentleman who was very willing to
serve, viz., F. Beale, of Regent-street, but being a vestryman
he was unwilling to propose him.
Mr. MORRIS begged here to propose Mr. Beale as one of
their auditors.—( Cheers.)
In the room of Mr. T. Senior, of Bruton-street, deceased,
W. Bailey, of Mount-street, was proposed, and the following
list was then unanimously carried.
Mr. Joseph Cornell, Mr. Thomas Metcalfe, Mr. Thomas
Record, Mr. F. Beale, Mr. Bailey.
TREATMENT OF PAUPERS.
Mr. HARRIS would take the liberty of addressing a few
words, and would preface his observations by craving their in-
dulgence, unused as he was to address public meetings, and
consequently required favour. Doting the last two years there
had been various rumours in the parish—he would not say they
were founded in fact—that the paupers were not sufficiently
provided with food. It was said that he brought forward this
business as a factious means of opposing the election of those
gentlemen who were now re-elected. We had no such in-
tention, and he did not conceive that there was any thing in
his conduct to justify such an imputation. The cause he was
about to advocate was the cause of humanity merely.—( Hear,
hear.) It had been rumoured that the paupers of this parish
were not so well treated as in other parishes, and he had, in
consequence, made inquiries in other parishes as to the manner
in which they treated their paupers. He had obtained a re-
turn from five parishes in Westminster, of the quantity of food
allowed to those who were actively employed. It the meeting
would permit him, he would read it. The speaker then
made a long statement of the various sorts and quan-
tities of food received in those various parishes, showing that
that received in this parish was less in quantity and quality
than in any of the others, and of course cost less to the parish.
The paupers of this parish had three meat days a week—with
these days he found no fault ; but when he came to analyze
the soup given on other days, he was obliged to complain. It
appeared from the statements made in a pamphlet published by
one of the vestrymen, that from the allowance of legs and shins of
beef for the whole year, there were 321bs. made into soup for
one person, and by his calculations he found that from the bones,
&c., there was only one ounce contained in the picot of soup
allowed for one meal—it was certainly thickened with peas,
but after all it did not amount to two ounces of solids, which
he certainly did not think was at all sufficient. In the 13th
and 14th pages of the pamphlet to which he had alluded, that
for the Master's Table, there was an allowance of 91-lbs. of
meat a week for thirteen individuals, which gave 14 ounces a
day for each person, after making every allowance for bone and
loss by cooking—he thought that was certainly a very great
quantity of provisions for that particular department. He was
very sorry that the matter had not fallen into other and better
hands, but he had felt it a duty he owed to his poor fellow-
parishioners to bring the matter forward.—( Hear, hear.) An-
other circumstance had struck him very forcibly. In the
pamphlet he found it stated that the medical opinions were,
that the health of the poor in the workhouse had never been
in a better state. Now he would wish to ask whether an opi-
nion of a very different kind had been given, and whether that
opinion had not been much abroad during the last few months.
Lord EUSTON said he could say that it was the prevailing
opinion in the Vestry. Another opinion had been given—it
was examined into, and found to be entirely erroneous. He
had himself been over the workhouse, and found it perfectly
sweet and clean. Any one of the rate-payers were at perfect
liberty to examine for themselves. He must take that oppor-
tunity of stating that, in his opinion, the discussion was very
much out of order.
A long discussion on the point of order ensued, many of
the Vestrymen expressing their anxiety to have the charges
inquired into in the most full manner.
Mr. HARRIS resamed.—lt was stated the first year after Sir
John Hobhouse's Act, that great waste and profusion had
taken place in the workhouses of this parish, amounting to
19,6601b5. of meat, upwards of 16,0001b5. of bread, and 5,4451b5.
of cheese. This waste must have been occasioned by endea-
vouring to supply the shortness and deficiency of the food af-
forded to the paupers, and all in twelve months. This it was
which had first induced him (Mr. Harris) to take up the cause
of the poor. He had, therefore, proposed something which,
if the rate-payers present approved, it was in their power
to recommend—it was to propose a revision of the
present dietary, and substitute another in its stead. He would
propose instead of having three meat days in the week to have
four—and instead of three soup days to have one for pudding,
one for meat, and only one for soup. The change would be a
substitution of solids for lipids, which he contended were not
snfficient to sustain an actively employed mar. He did not
advocate the cause of the lazy idle vagabonds who infested the
workhouses, but the honest working men who had been com-
pelled by distress to seek assistance.—( Hear, hear.) The
quantity would then be for an actively employed man, bread
51b. 50z., meat 200 z., vegetables 21bs., rice pudding 140 z.,
soup 11 pints, broth 4 pints, and beer 6 pints weekly, for he
did consider it absolutely essential that the paupers should
have a little beer.—( Hear, hear.) At one time beer was
allowed to the paupers, but they might guess what it was when
the price of 36 gallons was only 4s.—( Hear.) If the vestry did
not get it good, why had they not applied elsewhere ? He
would classify his dietary as follows :—To the actively em-
ployed man he would give 101 b. 9oz. of solids, and 8 quarts
lf pints liquids—to those not actively employed 81bs.
solids, and a better supply of liquids, such as gruel, &c.--To
the incorrigible, lazy, and badly conducted, bread and gruel

for breakfast, bread and cheese for dinner, and bread and water
for supper, fihiEli lid thought Yicitild be Vite it sufficient pu-
nishment, and would bring them to better manners. He did
not mean by this proposition to attach censure to any indivi-
dual, and would conclude by moving the following resolution
—" That this meeting is of opinion that the amount of pro-
visions supplied to the paupers iirida tlid head, of general
dietary, is generally inadequate to their physical wants, And
that we recommend a revision thereof agreeably to the an-
nexed table."—( Hear.)
The resolution having been seconded,
The CHAIRMAN observed that lie had at first thought that
the proposition of Mr. Harris to address the ineeting was irre-
gular, and the resolution which he had now proposed seemed
to him decidedly irregular.—( Hear, hear.) In the first place
it would most certainly introduce division in the parish, and
in the second, it would be impossible for the vestry to vote
against their own act, and thereby cast a censure on them-
selves. If a resolution were brought forward recommending
an inquiry into the matter by the new vestry, he thought that
would be much more judicious.—( Hear. )
A Rate-payer observed that the object of the resolution was
to recommend a revision of the dietary.
The CHAIRMAN would support any resolution recommending
the vestry to inquire into the matter, but he thought the pre-
sent objectionable.
Mr. Ha nais—Unless we show that the quantity of provisions
is inadequate, how can we bring forward such a recommendation ?
Mr. DoNovAs, of Hereford-street, May-fair, was of opinion
that if this resolution was proceeded in it would lead to division
in the parish. He spoke merely as a rate-payer, and he dissented
entirely from the propriety of putting such a motion. Even if
they were convinced that the delay was insufficient, it would be im-
possible for a meeting casually assembled to find fault with what
the vestry had found sufficient. He would support the resolution
if Mr. Harris would alter it as proposed by the Chairman.—(Cries
of " It is only a recommendation.") He contended that it7,was not,
and if it was put in the present form he would most decidedly vote
against it. He was the advocate of enquiry, because whatever
tended to stop enquiry. where suspicion existed, was calculated to
do infinite mischief.—( Hear. )
Mr. LESLIE hoped the meeting would allow him to offer a few
observations, as he had been alluded to. He would appeal to their
good sense, by merely stating facts, and he would then leave them
to draw their own inferences. They must be all aware that they
stood in a very different position to what they did last year, both as
regarded the amount of rates paid, and the amount of pauperism.
'lie question before them was one of great moment in the admi-
nistration of the poor laws. A small increase in the amount of
food might be suggested from motives of humanity, but its positive
result would be, to brink into the workhouse hundreds of paupers,
who were determined to live on the honest industry of the people.
Among all their enquiries, the Vestry had bestowed upon none so
much care and attention as that under discussion. They had found
aie workhouses crowded to excess, and the streets also crowded.
There were six or seven hundred families living entirely on the in-
dustry of the people, in idleness. Such was the case three years
ago. Now they had five hundred beds and ward rooms empty.—
(Cheers.) He might be told that this had been done by starving
the poor, and saving the money of the rate payers, but this as a mem-
ber of the poor Board, he denied.—(Hear.) They had exerted
themselves more for the pauper than the rate payer ; and the proof
was, that 1,200 were now beneficially employed and supported by
honest industry, who, two years ago, were supported by the rate-
payers.—( Applause.) He would ask Mr. llarris, had he been in
the workhouses of St. George, Hanover-square ?—( Mr. Harris
replied in the negative.) Then he (Mr. Leslie) had been there
almost every day, and knew that the paupers were properly taken
care of. He had always attended to their interests to the best of
his power, and even during the time of cholera he had done so.—
( Hear, hear.) He was sure the other members of the Board were
also most attentive to their duties, and yet Mr. llarris came to pass
a vote of condemnation upon them, without ascertaining what had
been the result of their labours. Three years ago they had 950 in-
door poor ; they had now something short of 700.—(Hear. )
Previous to their coming into office, two years ago, it was stated
that the poor had increased over 100 in six months, and that it re-
quired an additional levy of 4,0001. to meet the distress out of doors.
Up to Lady-day 1833, both in-door and out-door pauperism in-
creased, and 16,7501. were given away in out-door relief. To
whom? No one could tell. That was not the case now. The
reduction of an expenditure of 60,0001. to 8001., and which could
still be reduced, was a matter of importance and gratification ; but
still they were able to provide clean lodgings, good food, and
comforts of every kind, but beer and tobacco were excluded,
and the consequence was, that they had not now a single
able bodied man in either workhouse. —(Hear. ) The Committee
discussed the question whether beer should be allowed even to the
domestic servants, but as they had extra diet and were allowed en-
couragement money, it was unanimously resolved that beer should
not be allowed. The beer that had been allowed cost 4s. 6d. per
barrel, that is about lid. for each pauper, which the Board
considered an useless expenditure ; but very good beer was kept
in the house to be allowed under medical advice. The diet
table was six or seven weeks under discussion, and Mr. Hulsham,
a medical gentleman, declared that dietary to be both adequate and
judicious. Sir. Harris had made an attack upon the soup, but he
had made a wrong calculation ; he had not allowed for the children
who did not have soup—
Mr. Ha RR IS—I did exclude the children from my calculation.
Mr. LESLIE—WeII, this was soup day, and the better way would
to taste it at once.--( Hear and laughter.) Sir. Harris, who
ths..workhou,se., ought to have visited it, and taken
the evidence. ft s
the distress which was said to exist
ofin his senses upon
ovired parishes that were about to
adoptveis el
sn4-4ew upwards
s di
et
table,v h
which
cont.,ned no less a quantity
than former diet tables, but the quality •
Infinitely superior.—
IliZcarwek,of 6,000 per-
sonsH e aoro.
t)
of 'NI,: ho
rekn, .ohoety sko np
pe Vito 'r
ttehda tbtyh
there ee
pware ries
hi:
'fonder tbsr
they did not hear more complaints.
A basin of the soup was here brought into the meeting ; several
gentlemen tasted it, and declared it to be excellent.
Mr. GRILLON, the hotel-keeper, said he did not give better to
his servants.

Mr. LESLIE hoped that Mr. Harris would withdraw his motion.
G. R. PHILLIPS, Esq., M.P. for Kidderminster, advised him
to pursue the same course, and to obtain more information upon
the subject. . . . .

Mr. shonnisost also recommended the withdrawal of the mo-
tion. He thought the best test was an inspection of the work-
house; but he found that some rate-payers had been refused.
He could assure the meeting that he had seen persons
enter the workhouse in the most squalid condition, and in
a few weeks the diet produced a most extraordinary
alteration for the better in their appearance. He deplored
excitement, and hoped it would not prevail again as it did last
week, when he was actually insulted while walking the street be-
cause he was supposed to hold certain opinions. Now, the
calm, good sense of an Englishman would always bring him
right in the end, and he did hope that a better feeling
would in future be manifested by all parties.—(Hear, bear. )
The pamphlet (published by Mr. Leslie) seemed to imply that the
dietary table applied to all the inmates ; he hoped that some regard
would be paid to respectable individuals and rate-payers brought to
beggary not by their own misconduct, but by the fault of our insti-
tutions.—( Hear. ) He concluded by repeating his request to Mr.
Harris to withdraw his motion.—( Hear. )
Mr. Rain could scarcely conceive, after the manner in which the
rate-payers had re-elected their officers, that they could pass any re-
solution that could throw censure upon them. He therefore hoped
that the resolution would be withdrawn. He thought the vestry
had not only increased the comforts of the poor, and added to the
comforts of the rate-payers, whilst they raised the moral tone of
the pauper. There was one point on which he differed from the ves-
try, and that was the treatment, as to diet, of aged paupers. When
the poor man was descending into the grave, he received a crust of
bread and cheese and water.—(Mr. Leslie—it is not so.) He
knew that when the medical men recommended beer to be given to
the poor, it was given, but he would ask whether the aged poor with
no other disease than that of age received sufficient sustenance.
Mr. LESLIE—In the opinion of the medical men, it was quite
sufficient and judicious in its application.
Mr. RElD—That is not sufficient, one opinion might be met by
another.

Mr. LESLIE—Has the Hon. Gentleman been ever over the
workhouse?
Mr. REID—I confess I have not.
Mr. LESLIE—Then the Hon. Gentleman will not do his duty,
if he does not take the first opportunity of doing so. He would
find things so different, in every particular, as to the diet of the sick
and infirm, as to induce him to change his opinion. It was a mat-
ter of the highest gratification to know, that in the present popu-
lation of the workhouse, there was scarcely six persons who were
rate-payers of the parish.---(Hear, hear.) And when they consi-
dered that the remaining ninety-four gained their settlement by
renting 4s. per week, or by servitude, it was highly to the credit
of the ratelayers.--(Hear, hear. )
Mr. HARRIS then replied—He was much gratified with the reduc-
tion in the rates, but when they heard rumours of the poor being
unprovided for, he considered it was the duty of some one to ask
for information on the subject, and if the answers which he had
elicited had put an end to any one of these rumours, he was per-
fectly satisfied. He had brought forward the question with the
best of motives--(Cheers)—and as he saw the feeling of the meet-
ing was in favour of the withdrawal of the Resolution, he wouid at
once do so. —( Cheers. )
Sir W. FREMANTLE said, that as an individual he must return
his thanks to Mr. Harris for the manner in which he had acted.
No one ever went into the workhouse who left it without being
perfectly satisfied—one of the most humane men in the country,
the Duke of Richmond, in consequence of the reports which were
abroad, went unknown to the workhouse, and expressed himself
perfectly satisfied.
Mr. LESLIE, in corroboration of that statement, had to state
that the whole of the 49 parishes of Sussex—the union of the
parishes—had determined to adopt their dietary.
A vote of thanks to Mr. Leslie was suggested for his pamphlet,
by Mr. Donovan, but as there is a subscription going forward for
the purpose of
presenting him a piece of plate, it was not
persisted in.
Thanks were then voted to the Noble Chairman and the meeting
adjourned.

THE MARKETS-(THIS DAY.)

BEN MARKET.
is morning's market, but the trade

s. d to s d.
Spinach (half sieve) 6 6 0 (.)
Apples 2 0 5 0
Gooseberries
Cabbage Lettuces 0 6 1 0
Onions 1 0 2 0
Sweet Oranges(loo)
Seville Oranges 9 0 16 C
Lemons 8 0 16 0
Asparagus
French Beans 1 0 2 6
Span. Chesnuts (peck) 4 0 6 0
French ditto '3 0 4 0
Spanish tlazienuts 4 I) 6 0
Brazilian Nuts 2 0 4 0
For. G rapes (per lb.) 0 8 "
English, Forced .
I'ine Apples (lb.)
New Potatoes 0 9 n 0

Cherries

gt;;;;b—erries (oz.)