The Sun.
London, England, 1835-03-20 00:00:00

IRISH TITHES,

Sir H. HARDING was loudly called upon from all parts
of the House. • Before he would move that the House
should go into Committee on the subject of Irish Tithes,
he desired however, that so much of the
King's Speech should be read by the Clerk, as relates to the
subject of tithes in Ireland.
On the motion of the iloN. BARONET the House resolved
itself into a Committee.
Sir H. HA R DINQE then proceeded to address the House,
observing, that to rising to address himself to the House
on this ime'Ortant question he felt more than usual
anxiety. Hear, hear, hear.) The question was one
of a Tftost complicated character, and even if it were less
difficult, it would be necessary for him to beseech the in-
dulgence of the House.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") But
when in addition to these embarrassments he remem-
bered that since the year 1831 this subject had been
very frequently canvassed in this House, and that out of
the House, popular prejndices had been excited in connec-
tion with it, he felt that he was placed in a very difficult
position indeed ; and he thought it would be presumptions
in him, he confessed to hope that this measure would
be carried without considerable opposition and even some alte-
ration. It might be asked, why, then, bring it forward?
He answered that the urgency of the case, and the magnitude
to which the evil had arrived, rendered it necessary for the Le-
gislature to interfere promptly, and arrest its progress. Such
was the disorganized state of Ireland, and the intimi-
dation which prevailed in that unhappy country—
that it was utterly impossible to collect the tithes.
It was well known that in Ireland, the man who obeyed the
laws was punished, while the most turbulent and rebellious es-
caped with impunity. Amongst the scattered population of that
country, threats of violence were easily put into execution, and
more feared by the people than the enforcement of the laws.
Now, what was the case as regarded the freeholders ? 'Why,
for the last four years, it had been found impossible to col-
lect tithes ; the persons, therefore, who were entitled to tithei,
called on the Government to vindicate the law ; where resist-
ance had been offered, those disgraceful scenes occurred which
every Christian and friend of humanity must deeply lament.
Such was the state of things in Ireland, and this state of
things could only be altered by measures taken for the purpose.
The Clergy of Ireland, although their only means of livelihood
depended upon it, had acted in the collection of tithes
with the utmost forbearance and moderation, out of
upwards of 300 places where tithes could not be procured only
thirty applications had been made for the aid of the mi-
litary.—( Hear, hear, and cheering.) He would therefore
ask the House, whether it was fit and becoming, because
the clergy were humane and forbearing, that they should
not have the means of securing their rights—
( Hear, hear.) He was satisfied the Legislature would pass
a measure by which they would be better regulated; but
while it did so, while it agreed with the Government
in applying a remedy, it would insist that such
a just and satisfactory arrangement would be made in fu-
ture, as would put an end to the present system. The defect
of this system was not attributable to the exorbitant exaction on
the part of the clergy. It was in evidence on all the Committees
for the last four years, that the average amount of tithe in Ireland
did not exceed Is. per acre. By the return from 900 benefices, on
200 the average of tithe was only 6d. per acre. The amount
was not the grievance—the grievance was, the religious feel-
ings againgst it.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.)
At the same time, in many instances, this was a pretext rather
than a real grievance.--( Hear, hear, hear, from the Minis-
terial benches.) The real objections to the system arose
from the practice of subletting of land in Ireland,—many of
the small farms were so subdivided that it was impossible for
the Tithe owners to collect the Tithe except from a pauper po-
pulation—the Clergy were obliged to collect half. a-crown, a
shilling, a penny, and were in some instance a l'arthing, from
a pauper population. If the Clergyman were to forego his
claim, he would be deprived of the largest portion of
his income. The act of the, Noble Lord the Member for
Lancashire ( Lord Stanley) in 1832 affP,eted the removal of many
disadvantages, by diminishing the lumber of tithe-payers, and
throwing the payment upon tie middle men, between the
landlord and the occupyitg tenant. It appeared that,
out of 903 benefices from which returns came, the
number of tithe-payers had been reduced from 346,000/. to
102,000/. This Act was of unqualified good—it substituted a
fixed rent in lieu of tithe. The Act of his Right Hon. Friend,
Mr. Goulburn, in 1823, was to effect a composition for tithes.
That Right Hon. Gentleman's plan was a gross valuation of
the tithes for 21 years, and an average for seven years
taken from the next seven. The late Government al-
tered that plan in 8832, by making the composition, once
fixed, perpetual, and that had the advantage of relieving the
farmer who after 21 years, and having laid out a good
considerable sum of money upon his land, was no further
liable to a claim from the clergyman—the charge havifig.
then been made perpetual. That plan had the further
advantage. The power of going to seize upon the land
was taken from the clergyman or tithe-owner.—( Hear.)
He was by that Bill obliged to take his remedy
against the next landlord above the actual occupier ; but there
was in Ireland a great deal of difficulty in finding that personage
out. In England there was no difficulty, but in Ireland the
case was very different ; and the difficulty bad become so great
that, in his opinion, the Act of 1832 could not be carried
into operation. But it was never intended that that.
Act should be permanent, as was shewn by every speech from
the Noble Lord ( Stanley) upon the subject. His avowed
object was to take the burden from the poor occupier, and
even his next landlord, and fix it upon the first owner.
The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, when he brought in his
Bill of last year recognized the same principle. He had con-
tendend that the only effectual manner in which the
Church properly could he secured and rescued from
which it was placed the dangerous position in
was by imposing a rent charge, og investing it in the pur-
chase of land for Church purposes. It was upon this
principle the Bill was introduced, and the Bill for Eng-
land also recognised the principle of a rent charge.
It was much the best plan, because it did away with the
vexatious interference with the poorer classes of the tenantry.
It appeared that in the 903 benefices to which he had
referred, the quantity of land belonging to the Protestant
proprietors was 1,500,000 acres, while the quantity which
was the property of Roman Catholics, was only 645,000
acres, being in the proportion of fifteen to one ; and it also
appeared that the amount of composition which was paid by
Protestant proprietor in comparison to Roman Catholics was
191. to 11. He said this,_ to show that the burthen fell, as it
ought to do, upon the Protestanst, and not the Catholics.
The tithes were payable on the land, and not by persons.—
The Bill of last year established a rent charge, and so did
that of August last, and so would the Bill he was now pro-
posing ; and the propriety of that principle was folly con-
firmed by the communications he had received from all
quarters.

(LEFT SPEAKING.)

IM PERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 19.
LONDON UNIVERSITY.
Mr. TOOKE begged to renew the motion of which he had
given notice, relative to an address to hi 4 Majesty, that the
power be conferred by Charter to the University of London to
confer degrees in divinity and medicine. The latter words
being added,

COUNTY CORONERS.
Mr. CRIPPS gave notice, that on Wednesday, the Bth of
April, he should move for leave to bring in a Bill to alter and
amend the law respecting County Coroners.
Sir S. WH A 1,1. E Y presented a petition from Marylebone,
praying for the repeal of the Window Tax, which was now
the only direct tax which pressed upon the middle classes.
Lord MORPETH moved for a return of all sums of money
expended in the erection of schools throughout the country.
—Ordered.