The Sun.
London, England, 1832-06-13 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

It seems to be a received notion that armed
resistance to an established Government serves,
if unsuccessful, to reinforce and fortify the
power at whose overthrow it has aimed. This,
like most other general maxims, must be taken
with many exceptions and allowances, or we may
be led by it into gross miscalculations. Apply
the rule, for instance, to the late scenes at Paris,
and mark the danger of drawing such an infe-
rence as to their results. A conspiracy when
suppressed may prove, beyond all doubt, of great
advantage to the Government which quells it.
An inconsiderable party in any nation may be
thoroughly discouraged by a disastrous appeal to
arms—as may any given confederacy of factions
—if urged to cooperation by selfish, that is,
partial, motives, in which the body of the peo-
ple do not ccncur. An attempt, for example,
by mere Carlists, or by a combination of a Car-
list and pure military faction, though it might
maintain a desperate battle of many hours or
days with the national Government of France,
if such a Government existed, which, at present,
unhappily, it does not, would tend, in all hu-
man probability, to render such a Government
more secure and stable. On the contrary,
a conflict, no matter how provoked, between
a multitudinous force, acting under the vivid
excitement of passions, which are felt by the
combatants in common with tile bulk of the
people, and the troops of a Government, de
facto, which is odious to the majority of the
people, may terminate one day unfavourably for
the insurgents ; while from its very defeat may
spring a more extensive and animated disaffec-
tion, and the certainty of a renewed and far more
formidable assault upon the existing Govern-
ment. Louis-Philippe and his Ministers have
taken pains to represent the recent battles in
Paris as the effect of a " conspiracy between the
Carlists and republicans," being well aware,
first, that " conspiracy" carries with it, in the
eyes of mankind, an air not only of crime, but
of conscious weakness ; and next, that the name
of an half-" Carlist" conspiracy would, if' any
thing could, induce the nation to rally round the
throne of Louis-Philippe. We see nothing,
upon the face of any facts vet communicated, to
hear out the inference that the Carlists had the
smallest act or share in this commotion ; nor is
there ground for imagining that the term " con-
spiracy," as respects the " republicans" them-
selves, had any thing to do with the collision. Let
us hear what M. Montalivet, Minister of the In-
terior, says of the preparations made by some of
tl:ose who attended Lamarque's funeral, for an
attack upon the troops. He says, " they had
armed themselves with daggers and pistols !"
Was this the sort of armament which would have
been made by a population so experienced in
warfare as that of the French capital, for
an engagement with a numerous army of infantry,
artillery, and dragoons ? Next come the official
acts of Louis-Philippe. He dissolves the Poly-
technic School,—he dissolves the artillery of the
National Guard,—he declares the whole capital
to be in a state of siege,--he makes open war
upon the liberty and property of the press. Then
is it to be concluded that the youths of the Poly-
technic School shall pass for " conspirators,"
and with the Carlists ? So—was the corps of
National Guard Artillery to be stigmatized as a
hand of conspirators ? Did the conspiracy, after
being (said the Minister) " completely crushed,"
still embrace the greater portion of the metropo-
lis—and was it still so formidable as to require
that all Paris should be deprived of the benefits
of lawful government, and be domineerd over
by courts-martial and by the bayonet ? Why
have we entered upon these disquisitions ?
Why, to show that the Ministers of Louis-
Philippe have committed a glaring fraud upon
common sense, honesty, and truth. They have
represented the late conflicts as arising from causes
which did not produce—which had nothing
whatever to say to them. The sole act of pre-
meditation was the assembling of 100,000
citizens to do honour to the remains of a soldier
and politician, whose memory had become popu-
lar from his having vehemently opposed a system
of policy which was despised, and a King and
Administration who were detested. An unani-
mous impulse led together that immense con-
course of people, always for months past ready
to resist and eager to overthrow the Government,
upon principles which, right or wrong, were re-
cognised by the national spirit of the French
principles. But the acts of Louis-Philippe speak
for themselves. He has attacked, after the
alleged suppression of this revolt, not only the
most popular establishments of the capital—
those in which the Parisians took most pride—
but the noblest defences of public liberty, namely,
the laws and the press. Then it is obviously the
impresssion of the actual Government that
its foes are those institutions with which
the love of the people is incorporated,
and by which alone their rights and pri-
vileges can be secured against arbitrary power.
If such be the view by which Louis-Philippe
thinks proper to determine his own relations to
the French people, is it possible that the late
insurrection against his Government should be
the last ? Is it possible that he can continue to
rule over France but as a conquest ? A close
observer of the progress of French affairs from
the accession of Louis-Philippe to the death of
Casimir Perier, must, we fear, have cont inced him-
self of the vast strides made by the republican
spirit amongst our neighbours between those
two important eras. It would be absurd and
stupid for us to urge as an argument with French-
men, that a constitutional monarchy is a pre-
ferable mode of Government to a democracy,
and still more to a military republic. The
answer would be, " Mind your own business :
we are the best judges of ours." That the
French law of inheritance has a strong demo-
cratic tendency is indubitable. That the general
distrust and final hatred entertained by the na-
tion towards the principles of monarchy de-
veloped under Charles X., had infinitely strength-
ened the republican bias, must, we apprehend,
be admitted; and with whatever upright and
prudent intentions Casimir Perier may have
prosecuted his juste milieu policy, no one can
deny that it has generally operated as a severe
disappointment to the hopes of the country, and
augmented and stimulated the mass of anti-
monarchical spirit. That Louis-Philippe should
succeed, therefore, in governing France upon
the principles either of Charles X., who owed
his dethronement to them, or upcn those of
Casimir Perier, under whose sway the genius of
democracy has become more intractable than
ever, is equally out of all belief. Wbat remains,
it is not gratifying to anticipate. We are
afraid that no powerful Government can exist in
France, whether in battle monarchical, or repub-
lican in substance, that does not display a decided
military character. The people will pay an exor-
bitant price for " glory"—glory, however, deeply
stained with blood. The Government which
v-es war, may exact coyly', False it may be,

'44 02'

—pernicious, inhuman, brutalizing, may be the
system,—but we are not writing a book of ethics.
It is our business to examine and state the facts
as they appear to us. Our dread then is, that
the policy of every French Government to be
popular, must under present circumstances be, at
home republican, abroad aggressive. Whether
Louis-Philippe feels the inclination to adopt
either of these courses, or to stand the risk of
rejecting them, a short time will disclose. But
where he has just placed himself,—viz. at the
head of a despotic power, outraging all that
France esteems and cling: to,—it is impossible
for him to remain another fortnight. With the
domestic policy of France no foreign Power has
the right, and England at least has not the shadow
of disposition, to meddle. But grievous and de-
plorable will be the calamity for France, for
England, for Europe, and the world, should an
appetite for foreign conquest, or impatience of
general tranquillity, impel the French nation to
objects incompatible with that adjustment of the
continent of Europe, to which Great Britain
stands pledged by treaty and sound policy ; for
in that fatal moment would an alliance be dis-
solved, and perhaps an exasperation renovated,
from which dissolution, and revival, those who
live to see them, may too surely trace a fresh
myriad of afflictions to mankind. In the time,
as neither Napoleon executed, nor Charles X.
attempted, measures more inexorably tyrannical
than those of Louis-Philippe at this moment,
we may probably infer a succession of sanguinary
disturbances, a speedy subversion of the Orleans
dynasty, or a capitulation with the country, and
adoption of those measures at home and abroad
which the more active and energetic portion of
the French people shall dictate. The insurrec-
tion not being a disease, but a symptom, so far as
the Government has yet proceeded, the temper in
which it had its origin, has been rather aggra-
vated than assuaged.—Times.
We are glad to perceive that Sir Robert Peel
is not the only man on whom good advice is
not thrown away. Sir Charles Bagot, in re-
fusing to become Lord Heytesbury's successor,
has manifested a deference to public opinion
which cannot be too highly praised. Sir Charles
has, of course, seen the peculiar difficulties of
his position. His Tory principles peculiarly un-
fitted him for representing a Whig Ministry at
so important a court as St. Petersburgh, at a
crisis like the present. In fact, it is imposing
too heavy a responsibility on any public man to
call upon him to aid the views of his political
opponents. n hatever may be the peculiar no-
tions of Sir Charles with regard to the second-
ing the views of a Ministry to which he is
opposed, he must have become sensible that the
world would have been disposed to look upon
his conduct through an unfavourable medium.
His failure to overcome difficulties might be im-
puted to a want of zeal in the cause. These
are the advantages of publicity. Our opinion
has received attention, because it was felt that it
was also the opinion of a large portion of the
community.—Morning Chronicle.
Our contemporary of the Standard is quite
delighted with the honours paid to the Duke of
Wellington and Sir Robert Peel at the close
corporation of Merchant Tailors' Hall on Mon-
(lay last. " It is quite evident," he says, " that
wherever any assembly of gentlemen are collect-
ed, there is no mistake as to their politics. No
place can he found among them for the rabble
Reformers of the Ministerial school." Most
assuredly a better method cannot be devised for
obtaining unanimity in politics than packing. A
close corporation is the very place for having no
mistake about politics. The electors for Old
Sarum and Gatton knew nothing of rabble Re-
formers. The Scotch burgh corporations were
always at once decided as to their politics. We
wish the Duke of Wellington and Sir Robert
Peel much joy of these honours. The names
singled out as peculiarly distinguished are—the
Duke of Wellington, the Duke of Buccleuch,
the Marquess of Salisbury, the Marquess of
Douro, the Earl of Winchilsea, the Earl of
Halewood, Earl Beauchamp, Viscount En-
combe, Lord Ashley, Lord Mahon, Lord Skel-
mersdale, the Right Hon. Sir Robert Peel, the
Right Hon. J. W. Croker, Mr. Justice
Gaselee, Sir C. Wetherell, Sir J. Scarlett, Sir
C. S. Hunter, Sir J. Malcolm, Mr. Sadler, Mr.
Alderman Brown, Mr. Alderman Atkins, Mr.
Alderman Lucas, Mr. Sheriff Cowan. These
are the names of individuals who will be •
found at all Tory meetings as a matter
of course. That the Duke of Wellington
Sir Robert Peel, Mr. Croker, and Sir
Charles Wetherell, should avail themselves of
all exhibitions of this kind, in compliment to
themselves, is natural enough. They are the
guests. But who are they who gave the enter-
tainment ? Richard Hotham Pigeon, Esq.,
may be a very respectable man, but who ever
heard of Richard Hotham Pigeon, except in
connexion with Merchant Tailors' Corporation ?
We observe none of the distinguished Mer-
chants and Bankers of the metropolis taking a
part in the proceedings. Where are the gentle-
men ? Richard Hotham Pigeon makes about
a dozen of speeches, of a very flat prosing de-
scription, and he is answered in kind. A more
dull common-place exhibition cannot possibly be
conceived. We have no evidence either of the
talent or respectability of the meeting, except the
list of guests so ostentatiously paraded in the out-
set of the report, is to be taken as an evidence of
respectability. But it may be said it is cruel
in us to deprive the Duke of Wellington and
Sir Robert Peel of the consolation they can de-
rive from such hole-and-corner dinners as that in
question. As they dare not face any meeting
of Englishmen where the ceremony of packing
has not previously been resorted to, it is hardly
fair to pursue them into these retreats. His
Grace and Sir Robert have exchanged the
people of England for Mr.Hothain Pigeon,
Mr. Alderman Atkins, and Sir C. Hunter; and
much good may the exchange do them ! There
was a time la hen the Duke of Wellington needed
not to confine his visits to packed parties like
that of the Merchant Tailors' Corporation, and
when any company of English gentlemen would
have willingly acknowledged the eminent ser-
vices rendered by his Grace to his country. But
the recklessness with which his Grace has spa:ted
with principles during the last two years has sunk
him so in the estimation of Englishmen, that in
charity to him they are willing to consider him
politically dead. No real friend of his Grace's
can wish to dwell on his conduct since the open-
ing of the Parliament, in which he made the
famous declaration against Reform. Every
plunge he has made since that far-famed decla-
ration, has only sunk him deeper in the mire.
By the by, it was rather malicious in the Mer-
chant Tailors' Company to bring the Duke of
Wellington and Sir R. Peel together. Mr.
Hotham Pigeon, w ho is a copious orator,
must he very simple n to know that these
t wo Statesmen, after what has taken place,
must kel themselves rather uneasy in the
,•ompany of each other. Sir Robert Peel

floored the Duke ; by his refusal to serve with
the Duke, he pronounced a cruel libel on the
otter want of principle of his Grace. Sir Ro-
bert had, no doubt, an eye to his future eleva-
tion,. after the extinction of the Tories as a party;
but in the mean time he gave the coup de grace
to the Duke, and through him to the party.—
The Duke must curse his cowardice twenty
times a day ; and Sir Robert having injured his
Grace, must dread his resentment. We trust,
:it all events, that care was taken to interpose
some third person between the two ex-Ministers.
We suspect, by the by, Mr. Hotham Pigeon
meant unfairly by the Duke of Wellington when
he dwelt so much on the estimation in which
his Grace was formerly held. "He well re-
membered (he said) the day when the Noble
Duke was first received in that Hall, and when
his predecessors hailed him as the man who had
upheld the destinies of this great country and of
the world." This is a sort of date obolunz Be-
lisario lt suggested the lament-
..

able contrast between his Grace of that day and
his Grace of the present. These comparisons
are grating at best. It was as much as saying
there was a time when Merchant Tailors' Com-
poration were proud of the honour done them
by the presence of his Grace ; and now he is
happy to seek an asylum among us from the
unpopularity which awaits him everywhere.—
Morning Chronicle.

The Government of France announces in the
same breath that the insurrection of the sth and
6th of June is crushed, and that the return of
tranquillity is followed by the suspension 9f the
laws. We recollect that Sebastiani announced
in the Chamber of Deputies the extinction of the
Polish struggle by the memorable words " order
reigns in Warsaw." That " order" was not
the peace of the law, but the dread tranquillity
inspired by the establishment of a power that
superseded all law. We would not for an in-
stant confound the righteous cause of the Poles
with that of the insurgents of Paris ; but we are
sorry to see the revolutionary Louis-Philippe aping
the autocratic Majesty of Nicholas—substituting
the dragoon and the sword for the lictor and the
fasces, without any necessity whatever, and
taking advantage of the moment of triumphant
security to try the experiment of absolute power.
We are told, indeed, that this suspension of the
laws may not last many weeks. What then ?
It is an experiment of arbitrary power all the
time. Nothing can justify the proclamation of
martial law in a free state but the actual ex-
istence of a force in arms, which threatens the
subversion of the Government, and makes it
dangerous or impracticable to proceed according
to the course of the ordinary tribunals. In our
own country bad and corrupt Ministers have
ever been prone to take advantage of moments
of public alarm to suspend the Habeas Corpus
Act, the great legislative protection of personal
liberty, without sufficient cause. The suspen-
sion of that Act but in a case of the last
necessity—such a necessity as justified the Ro-
man Commonwealth in appointing a temporary
dictator—ne respublica detrinmenti capiat, is
highly unconstitutional, and a high crime and
misdemeanour, although had Ministers have
contrived to discharge themselves of the respon-
sibility in the eye of the law, by obtaining the
sanction of venal and corrupt majorities in Par-
liament to this iniquitous proceeding, which is
always the signal for letting loose upon society
the mercenary wretches that speculate on the price
of human blood, and who are stimulated to de-
nounce indiscriminately the innocent and guilty,
by the consciousness that the ordinary obstacles
which the regular Courts of Justice place in the
way of the success of malicious and perjured
evidence, and which, even with the greatest care
of Judges and Juries, are often too weak to pro-
tect innocent life, are all removed, and the liberty
and existence of every man is made to depend
upon the polluted testimony of those artificers of
falsehood who, in the congenial atmosphere of
courts-martial and secret and arbitrary tribunals,
anticipate no legal castigatio❑ and dread no ju-
dicial exposure. We are told that the rioters
in Paris, who for two days withstood the efforts
of 60,000 regular troops and National Guards,
never exceeded at any one time 500 persons.
This does not appear to us to be probable :
but, if it were the fact, never did 500 men per-
form such superhuman efforts of valour. Well,
let their number have been what it may, their
effort was completely suppressed : most of them
have been killed or wounded, the remainder are
prisoners. The Government admits that the
rioters, or insurgents, or whatever they are to be
called, perished, of isolation—in other words,
they were lost because the people did not sym-
pathize with them. No temporary success of
their's augmented their numbers; their rising,
then, served to prove, not the weakness, but the
strength of the Government. At the end of the
insurrection the Government was stronger than
it was before. It could consequently afford to
be magnanimous and merciful, and it had before
it the example of the clemency and moderation
of the triumphant people of the " three days"
of July. The battle which the illegal ordi-
nances of Polignac and his accomplices had
forced upon the people was not fought with
more bravery than the victory in which it ter-
minated was distinguished by temperance and
mercy. Yet we find that a London Evening
Paper—an organ of Government—refers with
approbation to its private correspondence,
which, in denouncing the routed Republi-
cans, if Republicans they were, utters sentiments
that would scarcely have been unworthy of an
orator of the Mountain in the hey-day of the
reign of terror. It is there said, the only thing
to be regretted is that any prisoners were taken
at all—and that to the ruffian bands of insurgents
no quarter should have been given. Why
that would have been to convert soldiers into
executioners, and to lay up large store of ven-
geance for the sanguinary retaliation of the Re-
publicans at some future day. Yet this is the
view of the case which the official organ of our
Government says there is reason to believe is not
unsupported by much influential opinion in
Paris. Thus it is the case that the sycophants
of power never consider clemency a virtue but
when the people are called upon to exercise it.
It is an attribute, in their eyes, beneath the
dignity of Kings—whose triumphs, to be truly
regal, should be implacably revengeful, and who
should never know that mercy was better than
sacrifice, until, reduced to the condition of
Charles X., they claim the benefit of a virtue
which they never recognised. There were
Pagan Sovereigns whose political morals would
shame those advisers of Christian Kings. A
ferocious saying of Sylla is quoted, but
the maxims of a Sylla or a Robespierre
would sound ill from the lips of a Titus or an
Aurelian. Henry IV. of France, a name which
the Bourbons are fond of invoking, was kept out
of his lawful possession of the throne for years
by the rebellion of tie people of Paris, but he
troyed none of his enemies in cold blood.
Hie world is feu more advanced in civilization

than it was at that period. NA re hear a great
deal of the " march of intellect," and of the
schoolmaster being abroad," and of the moral
victories which are thereby to be obtained—yet
there are public instructors of Englishmen at
the present day who think it quite right that
Louis-Philippe should indulge an appetite for
cold-blooded revenge in a moment of triumph,
and enact those sanguinary scenes under the
colour of justice from which Henry IV. would
have turned away with disgust and abhorrence.
Something has been intimated of an intention of
sending to the guillotine a number of the boys
of the Polytechnique School, who, finding the
gates closed against them at night, were driven
to the necessity of bivouacing with the insur-
gents. We admit their offence to be great,
but it is only two years since they lavishly
squandered their blood to raise Louis-Philippe
to the throne. If but one of them should be im-
molated by the guillotine, the moral consequences
to the throne of Louis-Philippe will be far
more mischievous than the physical efforts of the
insurgents. If that dreadful machine be called
into action at all, on the present occasion, what
becomes of the humane horror which the King
of the French affected to feel in regard to the
sacrifice of human life for political, or, indeed, for
any crimes, while the fate of Polignac and his
accomplices were yet in the balance ? It will
appear to have been but well dissembled distaste
for civil slaughter, but let him who begins to
work the guillotine beware of the example which
it may teach the people. We would advise
Louis •Philippe rather to listen to the rational and
humane advice of such a Journal as Le Temps,
than to take counsel of those parasites of a Court
who flatter and stimulate the passions of rulers
at a moment when honest and judicious advisers
would endeavour to pacify and control them.
Well and forcibly does Le Temps say, " It is a
feeling of its strength which disposes a nation to
humanity—but parties are cruel, because they
are. They raven after violent measures, without
reflecting that power will one day turn those
very means against themselves, and that opi-
nion will refuse to acquit them of the guilt.
Forty years of revolution have furnished many
examples of it. Louis XVI. immolated by the
Girondists—the Girondists immolated by the
Mountain party—and the Mountain becoming
its own destroyer, and Barras, who had organized
the 18 Vendeiniaire, a victim in his turn to the
18 Brumaire. The Regicides have never been
able to clear themselves of the foul stain of the
21st of January. The executions of Rochelle
and those of the Prevotal Courts have been the
principal cause of the general horror entertained
for the penalty of death for political offences."
Again, " There are persons who think necessity
justifies every thing. These men invoke bloody
and numerous executions, proscriptions against
the Press—a reaction against liberty. The nation
did not speak thus in Judy. It did not create
irregular tribunals for the purpose of convicting
the soldiers who had massacred the Parisians
with grape-shot." If ever there was a crisis when
the regular tribunals of justice and the laws
which protect the lives of citizens as well as punish
guilt, should not be subverted by irregular and
irresponsible power, it is such a crisis as that
which has just occurred in Paris, when the Exe-
cutive Government has come triumphant and
strong out of a fierce conflict with a portion of
the people, and the dread of anarchy being ex-
tinguished, the only cause of alarm is lest un-
controlled power might degenerate into tyranny,
as a necessary consequence of which justice must
be superseded by vengeance. It is in this way a
train of calamities is sometimes laid for a State,
which, for a long course of years, stain its his-
tory with events injurious to civilization and
afflicting to humanity.—Morning Herald.

SECOND EDITION.

SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock.

IM PE RIA L RLIAMENT

THIS EVENING.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. BULLER presented a petition from 600 rate-
payers of the city of Exeter, in favour of the Exeter Im-
provement Bill.

Lord EBRINGTON presented a petition, signed by
2,400 rate payers of Exeter, agreed to at a public meet-
ing called by the Mayor, praying the House not to
pass the Exeter Improvement Bill, without very im-
portant modifications. The petitioners preferred in-
curring whatever inconvenience might be created by
delay to the Bill, as it was now framed. The whole num-
ber of rate-payers wet e about 6,000, and as this petition
was signed by 2,400, and the one in favour of the Billbut
by 600, it was only fair to presume that the naajwrity of
the rate-payers were against the Bill.
Mr. BULLER then moved the third reading of the
Exeter Improvement Bill.
Lord EBRINGTON did not rise to oppose the Bill,
but to propose certain amendments, some of which he un-
derstood the Hon. Member (Mr. Buller) would accede to.
The Noble Lord went through his various amendments,
one of which was, that instead of 15 or 16 members of
the Corporation being on the Board, the number should be
reduced to six, and another related to a certain number of
Commissioners going out by rotation.
After some observation,, from Mr. Buck, Mr. Courte-
nay, Mr. Wilks, Sir G. Watrender, Lord Granville So-
merset, and Lord Ebrington, the first amendment was
agreed to without a division.

- Lord EBRINGTON then moved an amendment, to
the effect that all rate-payers should vote under this Bill
as under the former.

After a few words from Mr. Wilke, Mr. Buller, Lord
Ebriugton, and Sir G. Warreuder, the House divided,
when there were—

For the amendment
Against it
Majority —26
The clause was then ordered to be added to the Bill, by
way of rider.
The Bill was then passed.
Mr. BURGE wished to know when the Noble Lord
opposite intended, as we understood, to lay before the
House his promised plan for financial relief to the colonies.
Lord ALTHORP was not aware Government had en-
gaged to submit any measure for financial relief to the co-
lonies.

Mr. BURGE called the attention of the Noble Lord to a
letter written by Lord Goderich, in which such a measure
had been expressly promised.

Lord ALTHO.RP replied that that proposition had
been subject to certain conditions which, the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman knew perfectly well, had not been
complied with.

_
Mr. K. DOUGLAS thought, after the unsatisfactory ex-
planations which Government had been in the habit of
giving on all matters connected with the colonial interests,
it was absolutely necessary that the subject should in some
regular way he brought before the House.
Mr. STANLEY moved the recommittal of the Irish
Reform Bill.

Before the question was put,
Dlr. LAMBE begged leave to present a petition from
Dungarvan, complaining that the Reform Bill for Ireland
would diminish the number of electors in that place from
350 to 200.

Mr. LEADER supported the petition, and complained
that the Irish population returns had not been Lid before
the House.

Lord ALTHORP did not think it necessary to inter-
pose delay, as the documents referred to would Inure pro-
perly be produced when the Boundary Irish Bill came to
be considered.

Mr. 0 CONNELL considered the population returns
necessary to enable him to show the number of towns in
Ireland which either had no Member at all or only one,
which exceeded in population and importance towns
which in England and Scotland had received the fran-
chise. The miserable substitute for their returns,
with which they were required to be content,
had only reached his hands that day ; be mutt pro-

•eat, therefore; although As there were 90 many
points in the Irish Reform Bill on which he meant to
divide the House, he should not now trouble them
with a division, yet he must protest against their
proceeding, without at least the delay of a day
to study this document. Sh, ~,• fluid judge from it,
Dungan/an and Youghal would still continue nomination
boroughs of the Duke of Devonshire. The liberties of
the latter being, by the Boundary Bill, cut off from the
town, and thrown into the county. He was informed
also that Bandon would still continue to be nominated
by that nobleman and Lord Bandon.
Mr. STANLEY said that the delay in distributing the
present document amongst Members had been quite un-
avoidable. But he could assure the Hon. Gentleman
that it contained no more information with respect to
population than papers which ha I been on the table
of the House for a month past.—(Hear, hear.) De-
lay, therefore, for the purpose mentioned by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman was needless. This docu-
ment related to the Boundary Bill, and nothing but that.
The population returns were not necessary in this case as
they had been i❑ that of the English Reform Bill, because
there being no borough disfranchised or enfranchised, no
necessity was created ffor calculating the relative value
of any. With respect to Dungarvon, it had been
treated exactly i❑ the same manner as Mallow, and
on the same principle ; namely, that it was not right
that any man should possess a double vote on the
same property. That power had existed in those two
boroughs, but it was now proposed to continue it only in
the present life-holders. With respect to the manner in
which the boundary line had been drawn round Youghal,
the general principle on which they had acted, had been
to draw the boundary line round all boroughs as close
as possible, because the borough returned only one mem-
ber, whilst the county returned two. And was
therefore considered the more desirable franchise. jzdoia
Sir R. MUSGRAVE said that at present Dungarvon
was an open borough.

Sir R. MUSGRoVE said that at present Dungarvon
was an open borough; and the result of the present ar-
angement would be to make Dungarvon a close borough.
If Hon. Members sanctioned such arrangements, he con-
sidered they would act in total apposition to pledges
which they had given to vote for Reform.
Mr. KNIGHT wished to know whether, under the
present arrangement, a small borough which he saw at
the corner of the map was to bear the same name.—
(Laughter.) The name of the place at present was Snug-
borongh.—(Loud laughter).

After some ob,ervattons from Mr. STANLEY and Mr.
POWER, the petition was read.
Mr. LAMB, in moving the printing of the petition,
observed, that the principal reason which induced him to
present the petition to the notice of the House, was that,
among other things, it prayed for the non-disfranchisement
of the IL householders, he seeing no reason why so intel-
ligent a class should be deprived of so great a privilege.
He should on all occasions use his utmost endeavours to
support the franchise of the 5/. householders.
Mr. STANLEY observed that they had dealt with the
5/. householders in Ireland, in exactly the same manner
us they had done in England ; they had retained the
franchise to the present possessors, but hadataken it from
prospective ones.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)