The Sun.
London, England, 1832-01-24 00:00:00

ing, but in great tenderness for the nation, and accustomed are they to unprincipled conduct in
the national purse ; and we wish our remarks to their superiors, that nothing is so difficult as to
extend much further than to the personages to persuade an Irishman in any case that there is
whom they seem at first to relate. About empty not a concealed purpose under the avowed one.
honours we care not, nor on the application of
Being generally distrustful, they are more parti-
private funds shall we say a word, if private 1 1-- distrustfulofthe declarations of such
cu ar 3
funds abound, and there is no delicacy
at eentlemen as Mr. John Weyland, when they
snatching at them. But, mark ! There must
-profess their readiness to modify bad laws, pro-
be no public grants ! The nation is not in a vided they will only obey bad laws till they are
condition to bear those. It has them not to give. modified. But in this matter of the Irish
—limes.
Church, even the English are full of suspicions.
A discussion took place last night in the In an article in the Leeds Mercury of Saturday
House of Commons—on the presentation by last, the Editor of that influential journal ob-
of the
Lord Morpeth of a petition from the inhabitants serves, with much shrewdness, speaking
of Leeds, in borough meeting assembled, pray-
Leeds petition :
ing for a permanent provision for the poor of "We the more earnewly urge this subject on the people
Ireland—which strikingly illustrates the danger of England, because Ministets and Parliament will na-
g revolt from touching the tithes, and they will never
of a want of sympathy between the people of a of themselves give to the poor their rightful portion. The
country and their Legislature. The petitioners het is, that these tithes are a comfortable append. nsgetso the
(6,000 signed the petition in the course of' two arii,teeracyf Noble—as families-_a snug pension fundrk.i host of sinecures for
those who
i foryou°g
and
days) prayed that no provision might be adopted
brothers
have neither industry nor brains to gain their
until there was a previous enactment assigning a
livelihood by an honest profession. Never was an abuse
certain portion of the tithes and Church lands to
more monstrous than the temporalities of the Irish church
the purposes for which they were originally in- establishment. And the best Ministers, when themselves
_a,uges
tended—namely, to feed the hungry and clothe (!fhigFh
infit families, are to,)pronelstohisseres sacrifices.
of abuses.
the naked. The statement by his Lordship of Even
Mini-
sterial unparalleledp'atronade'have been, has Yielded to the temptation
the purport of the petition led naturally enough
to the consideration of' the very ticklish question of showering ecclesiastical and other preferments on his
own relations, and thus has brought upon a lofty and
of Irish tithes. Mr. Strickland observed, that noble character the only stain it bears.andTshterupgeg( then,
Te ;gainst
" the tithe system in Ireland must undergo
many
fightdiff c
u;thisbattletiem
ll forthe
they
have
nearly themselves,
won the victory,
some alteration ; and there was little doubt that
and ythen crowds of aristocrats will change sides, and par-
alteration too must soon reach England." M
- -r- take the triumph."
Hume said, "as to tithes, there was an end These are the sentiments of ninety-nine out
to them in Ireland. The House of Commons
of every hundred disinterested individuals in this
might meet, and might vote, but the people of Ire-
country. The people say to themselves, here
land had settled the question of tithes." This is a set of men who have obtained the power of
plain way of putting the case excited the indigna- making laws for us, but who have, in many
tion of Mr. John Weyland, who " protested things, an interest of their own quite opposed
against the notion of taking the tithes from the to our interest. We must manage matters as
Church of Ireland. The Hon. Member for well as we can under such circumstances, obey-
Middlesex said the people of Ireland had settled ing where we must, and evading where there is
the question of tithes by refusing to pay them. ,an opening; but, whatever we do, let us us not
It was a disgrace to that House not to enforce commit the unspeakable folly of supposing that
the laws ; and it was the duty of that House to they, who profit by abuses, will ever voluntarily
compel obedience. It was disgraceful to any remove them. We lay it down as a broad posi-
Member of the House to support or sanction tion, that there cannot be a better criterion of
people who were disobedient to the law.— the quality of a Legislature than the disposition
(Hear.) He would modify the laws if they of a people to obey or disobey the laws.
were bad ; but he never would support those Disorder is the child of injustice. Let
who rebelled against the law. It was not worthy Mr. John Weyland bear, then, in mind, that
of the character of English gentlemen to say there is nothing miraculous in Ireland. Ye
that the law was to be made to conform to shall know the tree by its fruits; and from
the wishes of those who opposed the law.— the fruits of legislation in Ireland you can
(Hear)" When there is a sympathy between be
at no loss to pronounce the character of
the people and those who make their laws, the the legislation. The compelling obedience to
laws will harmonise with the inclinations and the law is an idle phrase in the case of Ireland.
opinions of the people as a matter of course ; You may make laws for Ireland much more
and, in such a case, the people will be attached easily than compel obedience to them. The
to the laws, and will yield a ready obedience to proverb says, one man may lead a horse to the
them ; for it would be a contradiction in terms water, but twelve cannot make him drink. But
to say that men who can obtain laws to their the difficulty with Ireland is, that the people in
liking, would, when the easy mode of alteration the case of tithes really violate no law. The
presents itself, think of opposing or resisting the law' is suffered to take its course, but its course
laws. If Mr. John Weyland were capable of is inoperative.
reflection, he would see that it is because the Mt. O'Connell " denied thai the people violated any
law in Ireland has been the enemy of the people, law by refusing to pay tithes. The law said that those
and that those who made the laws were not the who did not pay tithes should have their property dis-
friends of the people, that the people are ene-
trained. Well, l 1,0
t i theire
lawpsr o,per,tryheweans. distrained.thenati
ori al '''\‘'vaisl 1 that
was
mien of the law. Mr. John Weyland would disobedience
against tithes. When English gentlemen said they were
modify the laws if they were had. This is determined to enforce the law, he would ask, would gen-
very kind and very considerate in Mr. John tlemen enforce any law which the universal will resisted ?
Weyland. But one swallow does not make Why, then, do that to the peoplet of Ireland?
sending
fdthey der
a summer. Would the Legislature modify the
ini(o)trseenfl"fotobte
tphaaytm neinustt of tithes,
the case.e except
pt bythem engtolut
y
laws because they are bad, and precisely because the military:"
they are had ? for that is the question. Now, 'When the law and the universal will are at
Mr. John Weyland ought to know, that if there variance, the law can have no hold. It is as if
is one lesson which experience has taught the a summons were sent to the lifeless figures on
people of Ireland more than another, it is, that the deck of the plague ship, which, in one of
resistance to bad law is the only mode by which Mr. Galt's novels, floats up the Thames to the
they can obtain an alteration of them. Was not terror of the London citizens. So long as the
the Catholic question, for instance, conceded at Irish people will not pay tithes, and not buy
last, not because the Catholics had justice on property distrained for tithes, the more the law
their side, but because it was dangerous any is appealed to, the more its impotence becomes
longer to resist them ? Had not the Catholics manifest. Sir R. Peel " thought his Majesty's
been hacking about their sores, knocking at the Government was bound to protest against the
door of every great man with humb4 petitions ; doctrines of the Hon. Member for Middlesex.
and were they not spurned and neglected till they The Hon. Gentleman said that the tithe ques-
became furious agitators and carried alarm into tion was settled in Ireland. Without entering
the camp of their enemies ? Will this lesson into the discussion whether the State could meddle
ever be forgotten ? Let Mr. John Weyland be with the property of the Church as a corpora-
assured that the evils of injustice cannot be tion, which was quite a distinct question, it was
confined to one side—that obedience and reta- undoubtedly true that the individual clergymen
liation follow naturally and necessarily in tne now in existence had as good a legal right to
train of laws made not to protect but to op- their tithes as any man had to his estate." The
press. Why is it that we are now seeking an distinction taken by the Right Hon. Baronet
alteration in the Constitution of the Legislature, between the property of the corporation and
but that the conviction has become general that the life interest of the individual members of it,
the interests of those who make the laws are not is quite correct. Whatever change be adopted,
identical with the interests of the people, and, let the rights of individuals be respected. It
consequently, that the laws must be partial and is, howetb-er, one of the mischiefs attendant on
unjust •
the pushing claims on one side too far, that
Mr Blackney stated, that " in six counties of Ireland_
Kilkenny, Wexford, Tipperary, Carlow, Queen's County, the other side is disposed not to go far enough.
and Kildare—the system of tithes was actually at an end. Our opinion is, that the longer this struggle
The people would not pay them, and they hal come to continues, the worse it will be for the clergy.
the resolution not to pay this unjust and oppressive tax. They ought to have their incomes secured to
They were united to evade the payment of tithes, but
they did not hreik the lavv. The system could not last. .
them, without reference to the original distinc-
The goods taken on distraint court not be sold. There tioit of,.
.times, because they entered on the
that a rule—quite
were eight or ten law processes by which the payment of livings with an understanding
tubes could be enforced, but they were all evaded. The different from the ancient—was in force:, Let
opposition was given by the p-asantry. He knew one the Reform be
parish in Kildare, in which the people had consented to prospective. But, as we have
pay 4d. an acre to resist the payment of tithes, and they said, it is one of the mischief's of that sort of
declared that they would rather subscribe 2s. or 59. an legislation,.
vicious which rouses against it the
acre than not resist the payment." feelings ofwhole
a nation, that the remedy is
A very striking illustration of the feelings of often in turn a departure from justice. The
the
Irish is to be found in a letter published in abomination of a sinecure church for the
the Irish Papers, from Mr. R. Cassidy to the aristocracy has been clung to with so much per-
Dean of Kildare, and the Rev. Rawdon Green, tinacity, that at length the hatred of the institu-
in answer to an application to him for tithes : tion is. extended to the individuals belonging to
side' Mr. Rob-rt Cassidy takes leave to submit for the con- ir. Sir Robert Peel endeavoured to frighten
ration of the Dean of Kildare, a copy of a petition from the landlords by holding up to them the en-
the parish of Lea, complaining of very gross abuses in the
rnent which success in evading tithes
appointment and application of tithes and charitable dons-
couragetions in the parish. would give to the peasants to attempt to evade

" The circumstances stated in the annexed petition, and
the recent conduct of the Spiritual' Peers, in the divi-
sion in the House of Lords, on the Reform Bill, have sa-
tisfied Mr. R. Cassidy, that voluntary payments to the
clergy of the Established Church would sanction a system
iif profligate immorality, and tend to retard the Legisla-
tive Reform so imperatively necessary to relieve the people
of England and of Ireland from their oppressive burdens.
" Mr. R. Cassidy, under such a conviction, does not
consider himself justified to support, by voluntary contri-
butions, a system of plunder and corruption, at varance
with the doctrines inculcated by the meek and charitable
Founder of the Christian religion.
"Mr. Robert Cassidy, at the same time, takes leave to
assure the Dean of Kildare and the Rev. Rawdon Green,
that he does not withhold his tithes from any wish to be
relieved from a tax to which the land he holds is subjected ;
and when the tithes and other church property are allo-
cated to the purposes for which such property was origi-
nally set apart by the pious founders of the Christian reli-
gion, viz.—the support of the sick, the ag, d, and the
poor—the erection of churches, hospitals, and schools—
and the decent maintenance of the c'ergy who minister to
the spiritual wants of the parishioners committed to their
care—Mr. R. C. will then not only pay with cheerful-
ness the present amount of tithes chargeable on his lands,
hut any further sum deemed necessary to attain these itn-
portant and long-neglected objects."
Now why, we ask, do the people of Ireland
adopt this course with regard to tithes ? It is
precisely because they are firmly persuaded this
is the only way in which they can obtain a mo-
dification or repeal of bad laws. Does Mr.
John Weyland doubt the existence of such a
persuasion ? Does he think its existence re-
flects disgrace only OH those who seriously en-
tertain it ? The people of Ireland have all the
distrust which oppression usually engenders. S,)

payment of rents by similar means. " The land-
lords (he said) might depend upon it, that two
years would not pass before a similar step would
be taken to defeat the payment of rent."
The landlords are too old birds to be caught
with chaff. There is such a thing, Sir Robert,
as history. We have now the history of a number
of attempts in different counties successfully made
to resist the payment of tithes; but in no
one instance was any such attempt followed by a
resistance to the payment of rent. It requires
no conjuror to explain why men may be very
anxious to rid themselves of a tax without wish-
ing to put an end to property. When you say
that no rent will be paid, you suppose the mon-
strous state of things, that any man may sieze
on what property he pleases—a state
of things
which would not last one week. If a man pay-
ing rent for 500 acres were to ,say he would pay
no more, what is there to prevent some sturdy
Milesian, who possesses no land, from taking a
fancy for the whole or part of these 500 acres,
or another for detruding him in turn ? No,
no ; the Alilesians may not be the most pru-
dent people in the world, but their instinct will
soon teach them that the very existence of a
people is bound with a respect for property.
TheScotchw up
ere as staunch in their refusal to
pay tithes as the Irish, and compelled a perma-
nent settlement, by which that country has been
greatly benefited ; but in the bitterest period of
their warfare against tithes, they never refused to
pay rent. Mr. Sheil touched with keen sarcasm