The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-27 00:00:00

AFFAIRS OF SPAIN.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY would not occupy
much of the time of the House, but the subject on which he
rose to address their Lordships had become very important,
from the large body of their fellow-countrymen being
engaged, he thought unfortunately, in the service of the Queen
of Spain, and from the conduct of his Majesty's Government,
which had embarked this country in a system of warfare most
disgraceful and most dishonourable.—(Cheers.) He had
been prepared to enter very largely into that subject when
he came down. As that House had not had an oppor-
tunity of hearing a discussion on the subject, he had been
prepared to enter into an examination of the whole ques-
tion, not only of the propriety of issuing the Order in
Council, but also into an examination of the Treaty that was
completed by the former Government. But he had been in-
formed by those to whom he must bow, that such a discus-
sion would be improper at this period. When he looked at
the accounts that had lately been received from the seat of
war—when he saw the uncertainty of the Government of Spain
—when he saw the uncertainty and incapacity of his
Majesty's present Government, which, from the exh;bitions
that had lately taken place, might be expected soon to
take their scats on this (the opposition) side of the
House—when ho saw the impossibility of being able to
discover what was likely to be the course of the Bri-
tish Government, he had been advised by those with whom
he was concerned not to go into the question, and he very
unwillingly bowed to their opinions. He would, however, for a
few ti:oments occupy the time of the house, in proceeding
to move for leave to withdraw the motion of which he
had
notice, to draw their attention to this subject.
He believed ed. ,`putt many of our unfortunate countrymen had en-
tered of the Queen of Spain from the want of
tered into the ser. gnd information which it was the duty
having that
at f *sh them with. He alluded
of his Majesty's Ministers furnish them with. He alluded
of his Majesty s Ministers
which ho had called their
particularly to two points to
attention about six weeks ago. first
those individuals who had been enlisted . In the service of the •
Queen of Spain, were included in the cony signed by
Lord Eliot. The Noble Viscount said they were -included
in that convention, and in another place, a Noble L'ord
the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, also stated that these troops
were positively included in that Convention. He thought a
greater instance of negligence in the desire to ascertain what was
the state of the Northern Provinces did not exist, than
that which had been shewn by his Majesty's Govern-
ment, when they stated to the House that it was their
belief that the decree which had been issued by Don Carlos
was a positive forgery. He considered that his Majesty's
Ministers had been totally foigetful of their duty in the
course they had adopted. If they had openly declared
war against Don Carlos, they would not have placed this
country in the scandalous, disgraceful, and infamous si-
tuation, in his opinion, in which it at present stood.—
( Hear, hear.) In his opinion; that course was being pursued
by Ministers which the House ought to look strictly into.
He had—andertaken the subject with much reluctance, but he
had been merely actuated by a wish to discharge his duty ho-
nestly and independently, as a Peer of Parliament, and that
he' was determined to do through evil report and through good
report. He merely wished to call the attention of the
country to the position in which the unfortunate persons were
placed, and were likely to be placed, who had engaged in that
warfare. He hoped the question would' come before their
Lordships next Session in all its bearings ; and he should con-
clude by moving that the order be discharged.
Viscount MELBOURNE gave the Noble Marquis credit
for the manner in which he had brought forstard the question,
and should endeavour to imitate his example, in not entering into
details. He was aware that Spain was agitated by twa very violent
parties, the one advocating the interestsof the Infant Don Carlos,
' and the other supporting the Queen of Spain. He should not
enter into the question of the claim of the Queen of Spain to
the Throne, but this he believed was certain, that she was
supported by the great weight of influence, and the majority.
of the weight and real strength of that country.—( Hear,.hear. )
He should not allude in detail to the policy of his Majesty's
Government towards that country ; but this much he was
prepared to say, that whatever the interests of other
countries might be, it was decidedly the interest of
England that Spain should be united—that Spain should be
peaceable—that Spain should be prosperous, - and, above all,
that she should be independent of foreign influence.—( Hear.)
ThoA Were the dpinions of himself and his colleagues, and
f the pliatipßs upon which they had
_acted.—(Cries, of

" Hear, L9-ar.") The Noble Lord had elrargetLidni with
ign)rance and 9rror, and with having deceived the persons
wit-) had joined the Spanish expedition. The charge related tat
the validity of the decree. His opinion was still uncliangect.
upon that subject. He i:'ought that all those persons ought to•
have the benefit of the (,;nvention, and there was ncthing-
in the Bth article of that Convention to the contm•ry.
With respect to the decree of the 10th of Jun c,that
decree was undoubtedly beiikved to be a forgery.—(He.T.)
It was so believed in other parts Europe; it was thought .ett
at Bayonne, and at Paris, and be hod no reason to entertain
contrary opinion; and, indeed, he was unwilling to believe-
' , that any person, at this period of mime, whatever cause
he might be engaged in, whatever state paid him,
or however his passions might be excii-xl or influenced,
could resort to an act of such horrid barbarity-, which has ens
parallel except in the most sanguinary annals of ;he most con-
vulsive times of the French revolution—an act which had no
parallel, except in the decree of the National Convention of
1794 ; and if any one thing surprised him mere than
another, it was that a Peer, being a Commander in the
British Army, could stand up in :bat House and meutiors
that decree without one single expressklon of condemnation
which its nature and character did most certa.!nly deserve. It
was not his intention to enter further into the dist:
nssion of this
matter. All the requirements of those treaties he wa: ready to
defend ; and he still did expect, from the course of polic)• which
had been pursued, that not only would no unhappy results fol-
low, but that safety, independence, and tranquillity multi be
extended to that part of Europe, in the i'Fclfare of which it was
impossible for him not to feel an interest while he wee in-

Iterested in the welfare of this country.
• The Earl of CARNARVON said, the Noble Viscount
doi;bted—he could not think that Don Carlos was of
such a character as to give his sanction to such a
decree. He was not a friend to despotic government--he
was a friend to all that was liberal ; but still he thought that
the decree was forced upon the King of Spain. Did the Noble
Lords fcrget that only a few days ago they had heard that
the Christino Genera Banos had shot six Frenchmen— was not
that acting in the very spi,it of the decree? The Noble Viscount
said the English were to be included in the convention of Lord
Eliot, but it ought to be rememlscred that there was not one
Englishman in arms in Spain when tifa Convention was agreed
to, and he could not see how it could be applied to their case.
He felt warmly upon this subject, having lot':' been in Spain,
and having contracted many friendships in that country, and
it was with deep and bitter sorrow he saw the state to which
it was reduced. It was not likely that the Spanish
Government would be confirmed by foreign troops, or esta-
blished by foreign bayonets. It was the conviction that the
throne of the Bourbons had been established by foreign
bayonets that contributed to its overthrow.
Lord BROUGHAM would not commence his speech with
promising that be would not occupy the time of the House
for more than a few minutes, nor would he promise not to
enter into the question at length, for he found that those who
made use of those expressions departed from their promises.—
(Laughter.) The Noble Earl had made such a promise, and
had not only gone into the whole question, but he had spoken
upon it as if it were merely a Basque question ; and, therefore,
one peculiarly adapted to the consideration of the House.
The observations made by the Noble Earl might have been
very well for any Basque to make in one of the Basque as-
semblies in the North of Spain, before they were abolished,
and since then for one of the representatives of one of those
provinces to make in the Cortes of Madrid ; but which, he
would humbly take the liberty to suggest, the English Peers
and the English people had as little to do with, as the Spanish
people in any of their Basque provinces had to do with the
rights and ancient privileges of the English Municipal Corpo-
rations, which, for aught he knew—and it was fair to assume
it, from the sympathies the opponents of Reform, in those bo-
dies, manifested for the old Basque institutions—might be at
that moment the subject of declamation and discussion, in one
of these'Basque Parliaments.--(Laughter and cheers.) He
was not surprised at the view the Noble Earl had taken of
the affairs of Spain. He allowed the Noble Earl full credit
for the romantic feelings which he manifested towards apeople
with whom he had passed many years of his youth. But
while he bestowed a full degree of praise on the Noble Earl
for his romantic and sentimental attachment, he must remind
him that there was something to blame in taking this one-
sided, squint-eyed, one-eyed—if he might use the term—view
of the subject.—(Laughter.) Instead of regarding the whole
subject as a whole, he looked at it only from one narrow point
of view, and altogether disregarded all other views of the sub-
ject.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl extended all his sym-
pathies to the Spanish people, and had none whatever for his
Noble Friend at the head of the Government. Not satisfied
with defending the part of Spain where the people were now
in arms, the Noble Earl proceeded to attack his Noble Friend
for the conduct he had pursued. Ile had endeavoured to dis-
turb the rest, and to break the slumber, and to prevent his
Noble Friend reposing in peace oo his pillow ; but he doubted
very much whether the Noble Eall would succeed in doing
that which he (Lord Brougham) had never known to have
been done before. The Noble Earl had said that his Noble
Friend was the cause of all the blood that would be shed, but
which was now in the bodies of the volunteers who had pro-
ceeded from this country to Spain.—( Hear, hear.) This the
Noble Earl said would be the result of the answer his Noble
Friend had given to a question put to him on a former occa-
sion. Since that question had been put, the Noble Earl bad
adopted the view of the question he now expressed. He
took, however, merely a one-sided view of the question then
put.--( Laughter.) He forgot the situation in which his Noble
Friend ( Lord Melbourne) was then placed by the person
who had put the question. He had forgotten that the ques-
tion was put by the Noble Marquis, who was now his coad-
jutor in defending and praising Don Carlos.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Marquis, on the former occasion, said that he be-
lieved that the decree alluded to had been issued by the legi-
timate, the ill-used, and the sainted Don Carlos. How was
his Noble Friend to answer this? Was his Noble Friend, as
,`linister of the Crown, to sit silent on the occasion, from fear
Ai what the Noble Earl stated had occurred in consequence
of frib• answer, should follow from it ? If his Noble Friend
had den. c= so, he (Lord Brougham) well knew what would
have beeo .the tone of triumph the Noble Marquis would have
taken—he 9.1 s fully aware of the language that would have
been adopted n that occasion—and also what would have been
the character of 1,./'e speech, that would have been prepared in
consequence by the Noble Earl, who had that night prepared
and made a speech .under different circumstances.—( Hear.)
He ( Lord Brougham) ek. uld well conceive what would have
been the nature of the iota.-nretation that the silence of his
sit exposed to.—( Hear, hear.)
Noble Friend would have 6,
His Noble Friend had then states.'that lie believed that the de-
cree of Don Carlos had not gone for,:h, and he had reason at the
time to believe that this was the caw; for he had not then heard
from head-quarters, and thus far tn`4lit have been differently
circumstanced from Noble Lords oppos!te. It appeared, then,
that there were some questions which Otould not be put, in
consequence of the answers that might iv given—for these
answers might possibly place indiscreet pa,Nons in situations
which they would not otherwise have placed th'emselves. The
answer, however, was to be censured, and not th person who
extorted it. It was certainly the first time that he had heard
of serious responsibility being incurred by giving such an
answer as his Noble Friend had given to the question that
had been put. Who then were the parties who had. brought
this charge against his Noble Friend ? Was it by those who
had been induced to volunteer into the service of the Queen
of Spain ? was it by the Constitutionalists ? was it by the
enemies of Don Carlos ? was it by the supporters of the
Queen ? No ; but by those who countenanced Don Carlos—
by those who comforted, and assisted, and supported that per-
son.—( Hear, hear ) They were the persons who charged his
Noble Fiend with having been guilty of a serious offence in
believing it to be impossible that Don Carlos, their own
peculiar favourite, their own legitimate sovereign, their own
sainted model for admiration, would be guilty of a crime
which made all humanity to shudder, except the man who
committed it, and which made virtuous men blush that such
a being Could meet with supporters and defenders (Cheers.)
His Noble Friend could not believe this favourite to be so
had as he had now turned out to he. --( Laughter, and cries of
" Hear, hear.") There was no choice now but to believe
that Don Carlos had been guilty of the most shameful
breaches of solemn treaties, and had been guilty of cruelties
which were unexampled and unparalleled in the most troubled
periods.:---( Cheers.) There could be no longer the least
doubt but that Dun Carlos had issued an order which re-
flected infamy on him who issued it, but which, to the ho-
nour of Spain be it spoken, and to the greater infamy of him
who issued it, the Spanish troops refused to obey.—( Cheers. )
lie had observed a curious and elaborate infelicity of expres-
sion made use of by the Noble Earl, in allusion to the decree
of Don Carlos. The Noble Earl had stated that persons had
been induced to enter the service of the Queen of Spain as vo-
lunteers, who otherwise would not have done so, in conse-

iisience of the statement of his Noble Friend on a former oc-
casto. Now he (Lord Brougham) did not believe that a
single ;,:dividual, one way or the other, was influenced by his
Noble Friend saying he did not. believe Don Carlos had is-
sued his deer; e. It now turned out that his Noble Friend was
mistaken, and tilat the decree was true ' • it then became a
source of triumph for. the Carlist party that Don Carlos was
much worse-L-was more tiweherous and more inhuman than
his Noble Friend had bellyied it possible he could
be.—( Cheers.) `fl,e Noble Earl, in censuring as he did
his Noble Friend for expressing this opinion, adverted
to the decree of Don Carlos ; and wi:at was the term
he used ? That it was an unfortunate decree.--( Cheers.) Aye,
in the same sense/ then, in which robbery was unfortunate,
murder was unfortunate—and the most shameful breaches of
fan were unfortunate.—(Cheers.) According, tScm, to the
Noble Earl himself, the man whose example lie had gun fed as a
palliation for the conduct of his hero, was among the unfortu-
nate of men.—(Cheers, and cries of " No, no, no.") If
ever he bad heard an expressica2 clearly and distinctly, it
was that used by the Noble Earl ; and if necessary he could
swear that the word " unfortunate" ras applied to the de-
cree of Don Carlos.—( Hear, hear.) Such was the nature of,
the decree that issued from this very human; and just prince. It
was said that an order similar to this decre' had come to
light, which had been issued by the Constitut:Ntal chiefs;
but it was admitted that this order had appeared only six
or seven days ago, therefore it could be no excuse for that
issued by Don Carlos.—( Hear, hear.) Supposing, how-
ever, such an order had been issued, how different was the
conduct pursued by Don Carlos from that which was ex-
hibited by a legitimate Britislu.Vrince—he meant the Duke
of York—when Robespierre issued his sanguinary orsor—t
not in 1794, as stated by his Noble Friend, but in 1793.
The Duke of CUMBERLAND, as we understood, serif
across the table, the beginning of 1793.
Lord BROUGHAM denied that it could be so soon as wag
was not declared till February.
The Duke of C UMBERL AND replied it was in the b
ginning of August.
Lord BROUGH AM proceeded to say, that the Illustrious
Duke was justly proud of hii connection with the Illustrious
Prince to whom he had just referred; for although it leas hid

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