The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-29 00:00:00

and in reference to that he was ready to mediate, but, as
regarded Venice, which was in possession of those who
demurred to shake off the power of Austria, it would not
be possible to get them to agree to the terms proposed, and
unless the same terms were given as regarded Venice as
were granted to Lombardy he would not mediate. To this
the Austrian plenipotentiary replied that he would not do
so, he had no authority to that extent. The noble lord
perverted what was said by Baron Hummelauer, and sup-
posed him to say he had no authority to treat as regarded
Lombardy, whereas it was only as regarded the latter part
of the proposition that he stated that he had no authority.
He (Mr. Whiteside) admitted that the noble lord was right
when he said that the provisional government at Milan
would refuse to accept that proposition. The date of the
letter of the noble lord was the 3d of June, and the refusal
of the provisional government at Milan was on the 18th.
He (Mr. Whiteside) believed that the noble lord communi-
cated to that government or their agent in this country the
refusal of England to accept the terms proposed, and he
admitted that when the Austrian Government sent a simi-
lar proposition to the provisional government at Milan, it
met with the same result. Austria was willing to give up
Lombardy, but you would not have it, and she offered a
free constitution to Venice, but you would not have it.
There was a very curious paper in connection with this
subject. Mr. Abercromby was then our Minister at Sar-
dinia, and the noble lord acquainted him with all that he
(Mr. Whiteside) had stated. On the 10th of July, before
the battle was fought which changed the whole aspect of
the contest, Mr. Abercromby wrote to the noble viscount,
stating that it had just been confidentially communicated
to him that the King of Sardinia would accept propositions
which gave the Adige for the eastern frontier of his king-
dom, and which recognised the annexation of.Lsmbardy,
Parma, and Modena to it. Charles Albert's language was,
that "should the Austrian Government make direct to him
anf propositions for peace based on such a territorial ar-
rangement as above described, or should they be offered
him by her Majesty's Government as mediator, he would
not hesitate to aeoept them." The King of Sardinia, then,
desired these views of his to be confidentially communicated
to her Majesty's Government, and it was added that " a
peace concluded upon these terms, giving nothing but
Lombardy and the line of the Adige, would, considering
the relative powers of Austria and Sardinia, be both
honourable and glorious for Sardinia." That would have
been a peace asking nothing with regard to Venice. Sar-
dinia would have been satisfied with Lombardy, and Lom-
bardy was what Austria was willing to give, but the noble
viscount would not mediate on the terms proposed. On the
28th of July the noble viscount wrote to Mr. Abercrombyp
instructing him to send an attache to the camp, where
King Charles Albert then was, to ascertain how things
were going on. He wanted, in fact, to be informed whether
Sardinia had a chance of beating Austria, and, if so, he
would have been ready to fall on our old ally in the moment
of her distress, and extort from her what she had been
willing to give. (Hear, hear.) At a later period there was
a conversation between the noble viscount and Count Revel,
the Sardinian Minister, in which said the noble viscount,
"I told Count Revel that her Majesty's Minister at Turin
bad informed me that he had at one time reason to believe
that the Sardinian Government would have been disposed to
negotiate on the basis of the Adige, but from subsequent
events it would not be satisfied with less than the line of
the Piave," which would have included Venice. The noble
viscount added, in his own account of this interview, given
in a letter to Lord Ponsonby at Vienna, that he (Lord
Palmerston) then expressed his opinion that Sardinia was
in a good position, and should the war continue with suc-
cess, the basis of the settlement should be the line of the
Piave. When the noble viscount told Lord Ponsonby of
this, Lord Ponsonby replied, " You seek the unattainable,
and the attainable you will not accept." (Hear, hear.)
Lord Ponsonby at Vienna knew that those terms, involv-
ing the cession of Venice, would never be agreed to. Two
or three days after the battle of Custoza was fought, which
changed the whole character of the campaign. The noble
viscount then wrote to Lord Ponsonby to say that he was
now willing to take the terms which Austria had offered
before ; but Lord Ponsonby replied, "My Lord, the Aus-
trian army has signed a round robin against giving up even
Lombardy." Thus the noble viscount, having at one time,
as he was told by Count Ficquelmont, by Lord Ponsonby,
and by Baron Hummelauer, an opportunity of liberating
the whole of Italy, but reserving Venice to Austria with
a free constitution, did nothing. It
,was therefore that
when the Emperor of Austria, a few days ago, had a
document presented to him by the noble lord, by which
he was called upon to give up I/ enice, he was advised
rather to make peace with his generous enemy
who would give him better terms than his pretended
friend. The noble lord had thus repeated pre-
cisely the same policy as he pursued ten years ago. Now he
(Mr. Whiteside) would quote the testimony of the right hon.
gentleman the member for Carlisle. That statesman had
said, " I deeply lament the refusal of the noble lord to accept
that settlement proposed by Austria. That caused the in-
surrection to proceed in Italy, and to break out in Hungary ;
that caused the interposition of Russia in the affairs of
Austria." An eminent historian, Sir Archibald Alison, went
further, and said that the noble viscount's policy led, in the
logical sequence of events, to Russia counting on the sup-
port of Austria, as one despotic power who had done a good
turn to another, and that so Russia was emboldened to make
an inroad on the Turkish empire. He might have remarked
in addition, that Austria not having given Russia the aid
which she expected in the Eastern quarrel, Russia, smart-
ing under that ingratitude, had lately made some agree-
ment, as was believed, with the Emperor of the French
against Austria. The last authority he (Mr. Whiteside)
would quote, was that of an Emperor, who was also an
author. In the celebrated pamphlet, "Napoleon 111. and
Italy," written, as he believed, by the Emperor of the
French himself, and published just before the late war broke
out, reference was made to the course pursued by the noble
viscount in 1848. The Emperor of the French, in that
pamphlet, praised the noble viscount's objects, which were
to get rid of the domination of Austria in Italy, and to esta-
blish, not the revolutionary, but the national element there.
After alluding to Lord Minto's mission as having been
carried in that noble lord's ardour somewhat too far, the
imperial author of this pamphlet quoted a despatch of Lord
Palmerson to Lord Ponsonby, on the 9th October, 1848,
in which the noble viscount observed that "it would be
more prudent, and more useful to the Austrian empire, for
Austria to stt the Italian population free from a yoke which
could not be maintained except by a great display of force.
and at considerable cost," and the noble viscount added,
that otherwise he foresaw that "foreign aid would be im-
plored and granted." Those were the verywords of the noble
viscount, and the Emperor of the French had now brought
in that foreign aid,
as he had carried into execution every-
thing else set forth in his pamphlet before the war. But
the Emperor observed in his pamphlet, speaking of the
events of 1848, that " Thre was a moment for the future of
Italian nationality. Austria proposed the independence of
Lombardy and a separate government for Venetia, on the
sole condition of her suzerainty. Those proposals were
carried direct to London; they were only known in France.
It was then believed in England that Italy might obtain
better terms, and the English Cabinet did not use their
great and legitimate authority to obtain these terms." Now
he (Mr. Whiteside) would give the noble viscount credit
for the singleness of purpose with which he had always
pursued his object of getting rid of the Austrian domina-
tion in Italy. The noble viscount had shown his sincere
desire to accomplish that favourite object of his by attack-
ing dukes, kings, emperors, and popes. (A laugh,) The
house had heard him that night pouring out ridicule on the
unfortunate Pope, and the noble lord the member for the
City of London did the same. Now, the Papal Government
was not a good government, and he (Mr. Whiteside) did not
admire it himself. But what would the city of Rome be
without the popes ? Why, Rome without them would have
been a mass of rubbish ; for he believed the popes had re-
paired the aqueducts and restored some of the monuments
of ancient Rome. If the Pope's temporal authority were to
be taken away, what substitute would be provided ? What
was to be done now with the peace we had before us ? After
listening to both the noble lords, he thought we had a curi-
ous prospect before us if they would meddle with it. The
noble lord the member for the City of London said, " The
first part of the treaty of peace I approve of." Well, he
(Mr. Whiteside) was glad, so far, that the noble lord was
willing Lombardy should share the fortunes of Sardinia.
All the members of that house, he was sure, were equally
willing that it should be so. (Cheers.) They would all re-
joice to see a powerful free state erected in the north of
Italy, though they could not approve of the means by which
that object had been attained. But the noble lord, admitting
that, said the rest of the articles of the treaty were full of
difficulties or impossibilities. So here was an entire treaty of
peace, signed between two Powers who had fought a bloody
fight, and the noble lord was determined not to allow them to
make that peace ; for if his principles were to be carried out,
this treaty could not be brought to a conclusion. The noble
lord said he would take the part which he approved of, and
agree to go into a conference if they would alter the part
which he disapproved of. If they would not agree to do
so, then he (Mr. 'Whiteside) presumed the war of indepen-
dence would recommence, so that if we set aside this ti eaty
we could not tell what would be the result. He would be a
most unwise minister who would go into a congress to dis-
cuss a treaty which he had already so unequivocally con.
demiled. The noble viscount had said it was impossible to
forin a federal union of the States of Italy. If that were
the case, then the whole treaty was impossible, and could
not be carried out. Then we ought not to meddle with it,
and England ought not to be complicated in arrangements
which it was alleged would prove no better than a hollow
truce, when we had not thought fit to interfere with the
late sanguinary war. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord asked
how it was possible that the Italian states could ever agree.
He said that the Pope would, of course, be for catholicity,
and Sardinia for religious toleration ; and so nothing would
come of the proposed confederation. But the noble lord's
argument was founded in mistake. Lord Bacon stated
even in his time that the Swiss confederation was built
upon utility—that was to say, they were held together by
the necessity of mutual defence. (Hear, hear.) The Ro-
man Catholic cantons were very strict in favour of their re-
ligion, and the Protestant not less strict in favour of theirs.
They had often had disputes, and they had even come in con-
flict ; but they had nevertheless maintained their confedera-
tion in a manner that made them respected even "in the
midst of greater Powers. (Hear, hear.) The noble vis-
count's argument was, therefore, false ; but, in truth, his
whole speech was nothing but a ridicule of the whole plan.
It was said that Lord Malmesbury had been a party to ne-
gotiations, but those negotiations were of a very different
character. He had been a party to them from the first, and
when a proposition was made that there should be a congress
in order to prevent the shedding of blood, Lord Malmesbury
at once assented to it, but at the same time he stated with
the utmost distinctness what should be the propositions sub -
mitted to that congress The noble lord might has, e better
alluded to the protocols of Paris in 1856. He did not think
the Chancellor of the Exchequer himself would be very
hopeful of a congress, judging from the experience they had
had of the protocols of Paris. He (Mr, Whiteside) had once
had the good fortune to suggest to the right hon. gentleman
a topic on which he had addressed the house with his usual
eloquence and power, proving that the protocols trenched on
topics with u hich they had no right. The right hon. gen-
tleman clearly proved-that the manner in which Lord Cla-
rendon had dealt with Belgium and the liberty of its press
was quite unjustifiable. (Che'ars.) Lord Clarendon made a
proposition that no power should go to war without first
appealing to the friendly mediation of another power; but
the very party which had brought on the late war had done
so against the remonstrance of England, the principal party
to the Congress of Paris. (Hear.) The proposed congress,
therefore, did not give them much encouragement for the
future. (Hear.) It would be wise and politic it this country
which had no hand in making war, should also decline any
share in making peace. She would then be free to take any
course which her own dignity or interests might dictate,
and she would also escape from those complications which
Might hereafter ensue. (Cheers.)
Mr. DRUMMOND thought that only
scrimp jus'i9e had
been done to Sardinia in the present debate, which he
thought had not gone to the root of the matter. He wished,
therefore, to refer to a few facts to enable the house to
arrive at a just conclusion. It was well known that Sar-
dinia was the only country that had attained to constitu-
tional government without revolution and without carnage.
(Hear.) He thought that such a country deserved some
consideration in a house which professed to have some ad-
miration for a constitutional Government, and which knew
something of the dangers that had followed the attempt to
attain it in France, Hungary, and other countries, Hon.