The Sun.
London, England, 1859-08-25 00:00:00

ZIR LINDSAY AND HIS CONSTITUENTS

Mr. Lindsay met the electors of Sunderland on
Monday night, in the Lyceum Theatre, for the pur-
pose of redeeming the pledge he made at his elec-
tion to return at the end of the session and give an
account of his stewardship. The theatre was filled
long before the hour fixed, and as the proceedings
progressed the building became crowded. Mr.
Lindsay, on entering the theatre, accompanied by
a number of his leading supporters, was received
with enthusiastic cheers, which were renewed when
he rose to address the audience, and frequently re-
peated during the delivery of the hon. gentleman's
speech.
Mr. Alderman WILSON was called to the chair,
and after defending Mr. Lindsay's vote in support
of Lord Derby's government as the vote of an in-
dependent member, he introduced Mr. Lindsay as
the independent representative of the independent
liberals of the borough.
Mr. LINDSAY said—When he had the honour of
being the member for Tynemouth he took perhaps
a little more than usual interest in everthing that
tended to elevate the people, especially the work-
ing classes. He assisted in promoting a Mechanics'
Institute at Tynemouth, and in various other
smaller matters ; and the working people there had,
as an acknowledgment of those humble services of
his towards these objects, been pleased to gather a
few pounds with which to present him with some
small token of acknowledgment of the past. They
had fixed the following day (Tuesday) to present
him with this small memorial • and as he had to
attend there he thought he could not do otherwise
tkan when he was in the north pay his respects to
the people of Sunderland, whose representative he
had now the honour of being. (Speak up.) His
voice, as he got warmer, would perhaps grow
louder. (Laughter.) Not that he had a very great
deal to say to them, because really since he had had
the honour to be their representative there had been
very little done. There had been little done to pro-
mote their interests, he was sorry to say—very
little to promote the good of the country—very
little to promote progress either in England or in
the world. But he thought it perhaps still the more
necessary that he should see his constituents, be-
cause there had been a misunderstanding, he
thought, in regard to a vote of his—(" No, no")—
a misunderstanding in regard to a very important
vote—and a misunderstanding in regard to a
speech which he considered his duty to make as
their representative in the House of Commons.
Now he wished them to understand this. They
sent him to the House of Commons, as he under-
stood, as their representative, not as their delegate.
The superiority of the House of Commons as a de-
liberative assembly over all the deliberative as-
semblies in the world was this—that the members
of that house are, or are presumed to be, indepen-
dent representatives of the people. Therefore,
every representative, when he comes to ask the
suffrages of the people, appears upon the platform
as an independent representative. They say so at
least. Why is it that the House of Commons
stands so high as a deliberative assembly in com-
parison with the rest of the deliberative assemblies
of the world? Why is it that the House of Com-
mons stands so much higher than the Senate of
France, or the Congress of America, or the Senate
of the United States ? It is because the members
of the House of Commons are the representatives
of the people, or are presumed to be the represen-
tatives of the people. In these other places they
are delegates—paid delegates. (Hear, hear.)
Now did they wish him to be their independent
ropresentative—(" Yes, yes," and loud cheers)—or
did they wish him to be the mere delegate of a
party ? (" No, no," and immense cheering.) If
they desired him to be the mere delegate of a party,
he must tell them, and tell them frankly and at
once, that however much he esteemed their suf-
frages and respected the honour they had conferred
upon him, he declined to sit in the House of Com-
mons as the delegate of any political party. (En-
thusiastic cheering.) Now, why did they return
him to the House of Commons ? They returned
him to the House of Commons, he presumed, be-
cause they thought that he would be a fitting re-
presentative of them—because trained, as he had
been, to the sea—familiar as he was with shipping
—having large dealings with the world—having a
knowledge of men—having been forced to study the
characters of men—and having been obliged to think
for himself, he was a competent person to think for
them, and to represent them. (Cheers.) Then, he
trusted, they would allow him to think for them
when he went to the Senate of the people, and he
trusted they would allow him to exercise his judg-
ment to the best of his humble abilities as long as
he did not deviate from those principles upon which
he received their suffrages. cCheers.) Now, had
he swerved from those principles? (Cheers, and
" No, no.") No. ("Yes,' and "No.") There were
one or two voices in that assembly which said that
he had swerved from those principles, he asked them
to tell him of a single vote that he had given con-
trary to the principles of progress, free trade, and
civil and religious liberty. (Cheers.) Now, the
vote to which he had alluded had given offence to
some gentlemen in that place, whom he must ever
respect—(" Mr. Alcock," and aughter)—and he re-
gretted exceedingly that they should have thought
that there had been any cause of offence; but, in
giving that vote, he did not violate any principle :
it was a party vote. (Hear.) This would carry
him back to the session. Now, how had that ses-
sion been occupied ? He spoke of the session from
February up to the 12th or 14th August, when the
house rose, because, though it included part of ti,v•
parliaments, they might still call it one session.
Well, in fact, there had been two great divisions :
one brought a dissolution, and the other a change
of Ministry. There had been two great questions
before the house ; first, the question of reform at
at home, and next, the war abroad. Then there
had been two great parties struggling for power ;
the one represented by my Lord Derby, anxious to
retain power ; the other represented by my Lord
Palmerston, anxious to regain power. Now, if he
had to choose between Lord Derby, as a reformer
and a Liberal, and Lord Palmerston, it would be a
matter of very great consideration with him, he
could assure them. Before they did him the honour
of returning him to parliament, they might be well
aware that he did everything that within him
lay to overthrow the administration of Lord
Palmerston, as the worst administration he be-
lieved that ever ruled the destinies of this
country. (Loud cheers.) They must be well
aware that he was opposed to Lord Palmerston's
foreign policy—that he denounced it as a dangerous
policy—that he opposed Lord Palmerston's policy
on the China question ; and that he was one of the
n inety-nine who repudiated Lord Palmerston's act in
succumbing to that haughty message which was
sent by Count Walewski dictating to the people
of this country. (Enthusiastic cheering.) There-
fore they could not expect him (Mr. Lindsay) to
have faith in Lord Palmerston's foreign policy;
and if it was a question of overthrowing Lord
Derby merely to reinstate Lord Palmerston, it then
became a question of very grave consideration with
him as to whether he should assist in overthrowing
Lord Derby's Government or not, for he himself
believed that Lord Palmerston was no more a re-
former than Lord Derby. (Cheers.) He believed
that neither were reformers except through neces-
sity. (Loud cheers.) Did not Lord Palmerston
oppose the extension of the £lO franchise to the
counties ? (" Right, right.") Did he not join the
Conservatives and oppose it ? (Enthusiastic cheers.)
Had not Lord Palmerston opposed the abolition of
church-rates up to this very session ? Talk to him
of Lord Palmerston as a reformer. Did not Lord
Palmerston oppose the Ballot ? Why, on all these
great questions dear to him (Mr. Lindsay) as a
Liberal—as an advanced Liberal—there was no-
thing in common between Lord Palmerston and
himself. Therefore, if it were a question of choice
between Lord Palmerston and Lord Derby, it was
to him as a reformer a choice between two evils.
(Cheers.) Now, to come to the main point. When
he sought their suffrage, if he pledged himself to
any question there were two great question to which
he pledged
himselfquestion
these were the question of Re-
form and the
on of peace. In respect to this
question of ,Reform, he said, not at a public meet-
ing, but at a semi-public
meeting, that if Lord
Derby attempted to bring
w foierbward such a mockery
h
of a Reform Bill as that he brought forward
humble aid towards thro which he gave his 1
before the dissolution—and
wing
outandLoif no other
moved a vote of no-confidence against
he, humble as he was, would do so. ThisrdhaDdebrbyeen ,
misconstrued. The first part of the sentence
w
left out by those who did not wish him well, andba: I
those who doubted him ; and the last part onfr;
was noticed. (Cheers.) Now, there were two
questions questions on which he and they and all earnest men
felt a deep interest, and to these questiOns he had,
as he had said, given them a pledge. They were
the questions of reform and peace. When they I
returned him to Parliament the war was raging in
"Europe; we did not know but that we ourselves
aright have become embroiled in that dreadful con-
flict. He pledged himself to support any Govern-
ment that would maintain a strict and an honour-
able neutrality. (Loud applause.) He pledged ,
himself further to do everything that could lay in
his power to have this great question of reform
settled; for whether it was necessary or not—and
he was one who considered it necessary—it was
time that this question of reform was settled. He
.had no faith in Lord Palmerston settling this ques-
tion therefore he made a condition with the Go-
-rernment, and he had that condition in writing,
ve-fore he would give his support to maintaining in
o' the administration of Lord Derby. He would
re t.o them this condition. It had been whis-
pe. red about—though he took no notice of these

things—that he personally had something to gain
by the course which he took—that there was some
condition which he had made behind the scenes,
some mysterious condition to benefit himself. Why,
there were very few in that place.who knew him
who would really suppose for one moment that
these stories were true. (" None but the Whigs.")
They knew he really had little of importance to
gain by being in Parliament, but he had much to
lose. They knew that no appointment the Govern-
ment could give him would pay him as well as the
business in which he was employed, and they knew
also that if he did seek a seat in Parliament it was
for the honour—it was from the hope of being of
some advantage to his fellow-men. (Cheers.) There-
fore he asked them to understand him, when he
said there was a condition made before he would
take the course he took, and before he would invite
others to follow that course which he felt it to be
his duty to take. And the conditions were
these—first, to regard to reform—that the late
Government should declare that they were pre-
pared to bring in a bill, and to use all their power
to pass it, which should provide for boroughs
a £6 rental franchise, and for counties a £lO
rental franchise ; and that, at least, thirty of
tile smaller boroughs should be disfranchised.
(Loud applause.) That was one of the conditions
which he made before he would promise his support
to the late administration. Had he not provedhim-
self an earnest reformer by that condition ? The
next was this : that the Government should pledge
themselves to take all necessary steps to maintain
an honest and honourable neutrality, showing also
that they were determined to take part with nei-
their of the belligerents, and that they were pre-
pared to defend to the utmost the honour and the
interests of England, if either should be attacked.
(Applause.), These were the conditions, and these
were the only conditions which he enforced when
he gave his consent to oppose that party move
which was headed by Lord John Russell. Now, as
they were aware on the first night of the debate,
immediately after the seconder of the amendment
sat down, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as the
representative of the Government in the House of
Commons, rose in his place in Parliament and gave
distinctly his pledges-to those conditions which he
(Mr. Lindsay) had named. Having done so, as a
reformer anxious to have this great question of re-
form settled, prepared to accept a sound reform bill
whether from a Whig or a Tory Administration,
there was no other course left to him than to give
his opposition to that party move which was made
to overthrow the Administration of Lord Derby.
But what had they (the reformers) gained by the
change ? Why it was said, " Oh, Lord Derby's
Government has been overthrown ; and Lord Pal-
merston"—who for the moment called himself a re-
former—" is in office." Lord Palmerston taunted
the late Government for not laying a Reform Bill
upon the table this session. Had Lord Palmerston
laid a Reform Bill upon the table this session P
(No, no.) No ; He had done nothing of the sort ;
and he told them frankly that his lordship would
not lay a Reform Bill upon the table next session un-
less he was forced to do so. Then there wag another
consideration with him (Mr. Lindsay)—there was
another house besides the House of Commons. If
Lord Palmerston passed through the House of
Commons a Reform Bill which would satisfy all
sound Liberals' would his lordship be able to pass that
Reform Bill through the House of Lords ? (Hear.)
He doubted it. It would go as the Jew Bill did for
25 years, like a battledore and shuttlecock between
the Peers and the Commons ; and this question
might be hanging over their heads, and might be
made a party question, and furnish a party cry at
every hustings throughout the kingdom for the
next 20 years. Now he was an earnest reformer,
and wanted the question settled. He did not want
this question driven between the two houses. And
there was another element of consideration with
him, because he felt that if Lord Derby could give
a bill which would satisfy him (Mr. Lindsay) and
other reformers, his lordship had a power which
the Whigs not not—a power to pass a bill through
the Lords, and thus settle in our day and genera-
tion this truly important question. Now there had
been a great deal said, that in returning him as
their representative to the House of Commons, one
great reason why they did so was, that when Mr.
Hudson and Mr. Fenwick represented them, their
votes were nullified, because one went into one
lobby, and the other into the other lobby. Now,
he believed his excellent and esteemed colleague,
Mr. Fenwick, to be as sound a reformer as he him-
self was. They both in the vote they gave were
equally anxious to obtain reform, and to obtain a
settlement of the question. Mr. Fenwick thought
that by the course he was taking he would obtain
reform the soonest ; he (Mr. Lindsay) thought that
by the course he was taking he would obtain it the
soonest. That was the only difference between
them ; but upon all questions of principle—for this
was a mere party question: there was no principle
involved in that vote—they were found together.
They were found together in the vote for the sweep-
ing away of church rates, and on the vote for en-
dowed schools ; and upon all those great questions
of civil and religious liberty and principles of
progress and reform, he dared say they would find
them together—(cheers)—and he thought he
ought to take that opportunity in justice to his
esteemed colleague of saying that short as was the
time that they had been together he had found
him an exceedingly valuable colleague. Upon
many questions perhaps he might have a better
knowledge from practical experience--the referred
more particularly to maritime questions ; but there
were many legal points which ho (Mr. L.) could not be
supposed to understand, on which Mr. Fenwick's
advice was to him of the greatest importance and
value. He had already received from Mr. Fenwick
much valuable information, which had been of much
value to him, and would be perhaps through him
of much value to them. The next question to which
he would refer was rather a dry one, but it was one
in which this country was deeply interested as a
nation and as a maritime power, and the peopla of
Sunderland were particularly interested in it. He
meant the shipping question. Early in the late
Parliament he moved for a committee to inquire
into the special burdens affecting the merchant
shipping, with a view to their removal. The House
of Commons was pleased with due accord to grant
this committee. The committee had merely com-
menced its sittings when the dissolution took place.
He put the motion on the paper for it again ; when
the time came to move it there was a change of
Government. As they knew, some considerable
time intervened and no business was done, and by
the time he got in turn again the House of Com-
mons was weary of party fights, and was not really
in the mood or in the spirit to go into any of thos
questions which are considered in the House of
Commons, he was sorry to say, though very im-
portant, still very dry questions. Therefore he had
not had an opportunity of doing more in the House
of Commons since he had been their representative
than merely, in a few words, getting from the
President of the Board of Trade a distinct under-
standing, given in his place in Parliament, that if
he (Mi.. Lindsay) moved early next session for a
committee to inquire into those burdens, the Go-
vernment would be willing to grant that com-
mittee ; and he got a still further pledge that the
Government would introduce early next session a
bill to deal with passing tolls and local charges
upon shipping. He could not boast of having done
much ; this little he had done. (" You'd better
resign," and laughter.) He was not exactly cer-
tain that he was bound to do what that gentleman
told him, but he would consider the matter.
(Laughter.) Early next session he would move for
the committee of which he had given notice, and
no doubt it would be granted. In connection with
this question of shipping there was one or two points
that he wished them calmly to consider with him.
The Shipowners' Society of London and various
intelligent and influential gentlemen considered
that the cause of the present great depression was
the change of our policy, and they naturally asked
for a reversal of the free trade policy as applied to
shipping. He had always held that even if a re-
versal of that policy was for the interests of the
shipowners, there would be no chance of obtaining
it. The Shipowners' Society of London and va-
rious other delegates from seaports, memorialised
her Majesty in regard to the present depressed
state of shipping, and prayed for reciprocity. This
memorial had been printed by the House of Com-
mons, and reported upon by the Board of Trade--
the Board of Trade of the Protectionist Govern-
ment—and this reportshowed, first, that the entries
inwards and outwards of British shipping had in-
creased much more since the repeal of the Naviga-
tion Laws than before ; it showed next that the
number of ships built since the repeal of the Navi-
gation Laws was greater than before; and it also
showed that the number ofships owned was greater
since the repeal of the Navigation laws than before.
tolds
shipping: eweren three important facts. He wished to
put the case clearly before them ; and therefore. he
that the report also showed that foreign
entering inwards in our ports had In-
creased in
a_ greater ratio than British shipping.
This fact had be en looked upon by a great number
of intelligent shipowners—and
he saw his friend
hhe Adcock
(Nir . before
Lindsay)
n
him, and he had no doubt he was
one of them—with a considerable amount of alarm;
wonderand
hu.n at it ;because
he saw great depression around
and a great
number of industrious and hardworking ship wrights
and honest
honest shipowners of this
country gradually
going to ruin. There was no hiding this stern fact
that there was a greater amount of distress among
the honest shipowners of this country than :cf.
there was, and that there was an amount of stagna-
tion in the shipbuiling yards along the banks of the
river which was almost unprecedented. But the
question was, could they do anything by legislation

,e evils ? (Mr.
, .
to remove Alcock—Yes.) Well, if
they could be would be most happy to do it. Mr.
Lindsay proc'e, eded to point out the greet advantages
of free trade tl i.l.iroughly carried out, and how by en-
forcing recipr oc.ity u:ion other nations adverse to
free trade, the . artrzans and shipowners of this coun-
try would mai 'enallY suffer. In conclusion, the
hon. member said, if anything he had done or said
had given offence to any one, no one regretted it
more than he did. He read the paper censuring his
conduct, and althdu3h only signed by 113 out of
3,000 voters, he imust say, when he looked at the
names in the pap( 'l' it cal'it him considerable pain.
If those gentlemey a thought him wrong, they had a
right to protest, a nd now that they have mutually
and frankly statei 1 their opinions, he hoped they
would hold out to,liim the right hand of fellowship,
and instead of opi )osing assist him to obtain those
measures of reform which all desired. The hon.
gentleman sat down, after saying, "Continue tome
your confidence, and I will never swerve from those
independent principles which I have always pro-
fessed."
The CHAIRMAN proposed a vote of confidence in
Mr. Lindsay, which T‘-as carried with acclamation.
Judge HALIBURTON., being called upon by the
meeting, in a few remarks paid a high compliment
to Mr. Lindsay's practicul knowledge and useful-
ness as a member of Parliament, after which a vote
of thanks was passed to the chairman, and the
meeting concluded.