The Sun.
London, England, 1832-04-14 00:00:00

EXPRESS

EDITION.

S UN-OFFICE,
SATURDAY MORNING, SEVEN o'CLOCK.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The House met to-day at Half•paat Three o'idoel.—
Prayers were read by the Bishop of CnlcNiiTEa.
Lord Moxvirrx, Sir J. OWEN, Mr. STRICKLAND, and
other Members of the House of Commons, brought up
the Insolvent Debtors (Ireland) Bill, and several private
Bills.

The Earl of CAMPERDOWN presented a petition
from a parish in Ireland, in favour of Reform.
The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition
from an individual in Ryde, against the Reform Bill.
The Earl of WICKLOW presented a similar petition
from a place in Essex ; also a petition from a parish in
Donegal, complaining of the tithe system, and praying fat
its abolition.

The Earl of HAREWOOD presented a petition from A
parish in the East Riding of York against the Reform Bill.
Lord TEYNHAAI presented a petttiou fr.,tn the inhabi•
tantsof Horsham in favour of the Factories Hill, and pray
ing the House to take it most seriously into their con-
sideration. The Noble Lord deprecated strongly the
present labour of children in factories.

The Irish Nisi Prius Court (Dublin) Bill, and the Irish
Exchequer Bill, were read a second time.

Lord AUCKLAND postponed the second reading of the
Civil Department Naval Bill till Monday.
The Bishop of GLOUCESTER presented a petition rion
the clergy of the diocese of Gloucester, against the new sys.
tern of education in Ireland,

Lord HOLLAND presenteka petition from certain Pro-
testant Dissenters within twelv6 miles of London, in favour
of the proposed plan of education in Ireland. The Noble
Lord said it certainly was not his intention to introduce
any debate upon the question of the merits of the
petition itself; but he thought it his (hay in the present-
ing of the petition to describe to their Lordships
who and what the petitioners were. He admitted
that they were not at all a corpora* body, and,
therefore, that their petition must be rooeived only as
that of the persons whose names were annexed to it.
They were persons who composed a bully of men
recognised by the Government since the early
period of the accession of the House of Htnover, and
no men were more opulent or intelligent than
the dissenters of the Kingdom, and were entitled to great
credit for the services they bad done to their country. Such
persons were the present petitioners, and they prayed
of their Lordships to Rive full and efficient effect to the pro-
posed plan of National Education in Ireland. He (Lord H. )
would take upon himself to say, that if there were any
set of people in this country who wf re more
deeply interested in the maintenance of the doctrine
of the right of private judgment in matters of religion,
it was the persons who had signed the present petihen ;
and though they differed OR many import ant points
in religious matters, they had all without solicitation come
forward to advocate and support the plan of education
that had been proposed by his Majesty's Ministers. He
had presented this petition because he felt sure,
coming from the respectable body it did, that it would
have great weight in the country, and he hoped and
trusted with their Lordships also.

Lord RODEN said, if there was any question on
which the people of Ireland had agret-d to expre►s their
disapprobation, it was the present measure; and the Noble
Lord must allow him to state that many of the parties
who had signed the petition were Soeinians.

Lord HOLLAND—The Noble Lord who had just sat
down, had no doubt read the works of Socinue, and must be
tware that the doctrines contained in the writings of that
author differed in many important particulars from
those of the Unitarians; but, however that might be, he
saw not what should prevent the Unitarians
from forming a just opinion of the plan of education that
had now been adopted in Ireland. He preserited this
petition, however, as the petition of a body of men re-
iveaenting many thousand Protestant Dissenters of this
kiagdoas.
be Earl of WICKLOW said that the Noble Lord
in presenting this petition, had deprecated discussion, but
vet has made two speeches calculated to excite a de-
trate. He would not follow the example of the Noble
Baron, but would merely observe, that this was the first peti-
,ion that had been presented in favour of the system of
education now pursued in Ireland. He begged to t ike this
opportunity of stating that in the course of this Session be
should move for a return of all the petitions presented
to the House upon this subject, in order to show that as
they were called upon to pass the Reform Bill, in
order to satisfy the wishes of the people, so with equal
Justice they were called upon speedily to do away with the
system of education lately adopted by this Rtiveroment.
The Bishop of BRISTOL begged to state that the reason
why those who opposed the system of education adopted
for Ireland disapproved of it was this, that it would tend
to prevent the general diffiusion of the Scriptures. The
Protestants did not wish to impose their particular
opinions upon any set of men whatever, but merely to
give all an opportunity of reading the Scriptures. He
hoped that his Majesty's Ministers were not disaffected to
the Protestant religion, and were willing to give every
party an opportunity of referring to the Scriptures
He must enter his protest against the principle which had
lately gained ground, that the Civil Magistrate ought to
give countenance, sanction, and protection, even to
truth. The Commissioners for Education in Ireland
had however set forth that no principle could be adopted
for a plan of general education, which interfered with the
principles of any stet whatever, as if it were intolerant to
wish every individual, only to hope for the opportunity of
reading the Scriptures, whilst it certainly was in-
tolerance on the part of the Ronaish priesthood
to wish to debar any one of that opportunity. If we
were ever to arrive at uniformity of opinion, it could only
he by a full diffusion of a knowledge of the Scriptures.
He entreated his Majesty's Ministers to do nothing to
prevent that diffusion from taking place. All the Protest-
ants wished was, to give every one access to the Scriptures.
Earl GREY—He did not want to prolong this con-
versation, but after what had been stated by the Right Rev.
Prelate, he could not help stating that his Majesty's Mini-
sters were not adverse to the Protestant religion. No one,
even on the Reverend Bench, could be more anxious
than they were to protect the interests of that religion
and diffuse scriptural knowledge. The plan of educ ttion
which they had proposed for Ireland was not intended
to exclude the Bible, but on the contrary provi.ion had
been made for securing it. All his Msj sty's Ministers
had wished in that plan, was so to construct it as not to
defeat its object as niakine the plan of nation)] eduction.

Lord ECLENBOROUGH said that the Noble Earl had
made a speech calculated to excite discussion, notwithstanding
his early deprecation of it; but he (Lord el.) would not cm
-I,at account takp the inconvenient course of now aoewer-
ing those observation.

Etrl GREY *4il that be had not made any state-
ment calculated to provoke any di‘cus,•:•in, but
merely stated what was the object of the Government
in advocating this plan.
Earl GREY presented a petition from Dr. Fletcher and
Dr. Bennett representing their respective cengr:gations iu
favour of the Irish system of education; and a peiLion
more respectfully worded, and containing more linden:
ihle truths, be conceived could not be presented to the
Holm

Lard ELLENBOROUGH thought their Lordships
flu ituht.
children this
of te
lt: tee
.
land were receiving moral and religious elineatiou; andt
must suppose (ruin the Noble Earl's representations there
would be no education at all in Ireland if there
- whereas
was not a large sum of money voted in favour uf it
fbryomtheG,,Gvoevrenrrnnemnet, three fourths w int
ot
if the Government's assistance were to be withdrawn
to-morrow that education would still continued to
be afforded, • and probably considerably increased. lie
did not dispute the object of the Ministers to whom the
Noble Earl had alluded, being desirous of not intriadi.ig
upon the Protestant religion by advocating this
system of education, bat the practical effect of it would
undoubtedly be injurious to their religion. When this
plan of education was presented to the Ilou,e of Cotnnions,
t was stated by the Right Him. Secretary for 'Man,
di it under the Kildare-street Society system the benevu-
cot intention, of Government had been frustrated, and
as, according to the calculations which had been made.
hills system would withdraw 45,000 Protestant childri*
from the other schools in Ireland, thereby making wry tor
the education of 45,000 Catholic Citildren, a great injury
would be the result to the Protestant religion.