The Sun.
London, England, 1832-03-14 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAicir 13.

The LOAD CIiAIiCELLOIS took his seat on the Wool-
sack at Five o'clock.

The Earl of ELDON presented a petition against the
new system of education in Ireland.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from
Bishopsgate-street, in favour of the Factories Bill. The
Right Reverend Prelate said he had heard of a
case which would shOw the absolute necessity of
legislating upon this subject. He was informed there
was a person who had made a large fortune by a factory,
and employed in it upwards of 1200 children, who not
only worked fourteen hours a day for six days in the
week, but two days, out of the six, had to work both day
and night.
Lord SUFFIELD presented a petition from Paisley to
the same effect.

Lord ELLENBOROUGII presented a petition from
the Directors of the East India Company. praying to he
heard by Counsel at the Bar against the Zemindar of No-
zeed's Bill.

After a discussion on the subject between the Noble Lord
and Earl Grey, it was settled that the prayer of the peti-
tion he taken into consideration on Friday next.

THE FRENCH EXPEDITION TO ANCONA.

The E trl of ABERDEEN, in putting his promised ques-
tions to Ministers, relative to the expediion to Ancona,
protested against the irregularity of proceedings introduced
by the Noble Earl (Grey) into that House, as he had yet to
learn that Noble Lords had not a right to call upon Mi-
nisters to give explanations of any important transactions.
It was but recently that he had endeavoured to obtain
from Government some explanations relative to an
expedition which had sailed from the ports of France.—
( Hear, hear.) At that time the Noble Lord was
not very explicit, but he accompanied the state-
ment he then made by his customary eulogy of the
French Government, by which the House was led
to suppose, that the communications which had
been received from that State were of a satisfactory na-
ture. He would not, however, do the Noble Earl the in-
ju•tice of supposing it possible that he felt satisfied
with what bad taken place in Italy, and the capture of
Ancona. It had ever been the established policy of this coun-
try to watch the external proceedings of the,French Court,
with a view to prevent any extension of its dominions;
and he saw nothing in the present condition of France
that would induce this country to deviate from that
established principle. In his opinion what had lately
taken place there was a strong argument for the House more
perseveringly to adhere to it, as it was his firm conviction
the course which bad been pursued by the Noble Lord would
endanger the peace of Europe, and the measures he had adop••
ted were likely to lead to those calamities which he was
sure it was his object to avert. He believed
that he was himself about the first public functionary
in Europe who had received the commands of his Sove-
reign to acknowledge the Duke of Orleans as the King of
the French. The motives that had induced Government to
adopt that plan had been fully communicated to the allies of
this country, and to the whole of Europe. No man
was more desirous to preserve the peace of Europe
and the friendly relations of this country with
France, than himself. But he never could forget
thst it 4r44 the duty of a British Minister

es use every endeavour to prevent the commission or 1
tete, which would be injurious to the honour of bi-
eountry, and it was equally the duty of every Member o
that Howse, not being a mini-ter, to stigmatise are
epudiate such acts.--( Hear, hear.) As far as he coule
form any opinion of the expedition to Ancena, it was
worthy of tire time of the revolution ; and looking at
what had taken place, he could not but th ink it
founded on trickery, perfidy, and deceit.--alear, hear.)
He held in his hand a translation of the letter
from the Italian Minister of State to the French
Ambassador, from which it plainly appeared,
that on the 22d February a French squadron was in the
port of Ancona. The captain of the fort went or
hoard to the French Ambassador, and offered, in
the name of his Holiness the Pope, all the
assistance he stood in need of. The ceremony
of etiquette was dispensed with, and it was
settled that the French squadron should be
allowed to enter the port the next morning, In ti e
middle of the night, however the French troops forcibly
entered the town, proceeded to the residence of the com-
mandant, disarmed the garrison, made them prisoners of war
and insisted on the surrender of the city. To pre-
vent the shedding of blood the place was surrendered.
The Earl of Aberdeen, when first lie read the
statement could hardly give it credence, but subse-
quent facts had firmly established the truth of it.
However fir the Austrians might be justified in
the course they had pursued, he could see nothing what-
ever to warrant the conduct that bad been pursued by the
French. According to M. Perier, the expedition had
been undertaken for the interests of the Catholic religion
and that of the Holy See, and for the purpose of preserving
peace. He read over two or three times what M. Perier
communicated on the subject ; and he confessed to their
Lordships that he was just as wise as he t as before.—
(Hear, hear.) There could be no doubt that the Noble
Earl opposite had likewise considered it his duty to read
over the passage of M. Perier's speech relating to Italy ;
and if he comprehended it, he (the Earl of Aberdeen) gave
the Noble Earl credit for possessing a greater share of sa-
gacity than himself. He found a great number of fine
words in the speech ; but he was able to discover very
little sense. The expedition was described as haying been
undertaken " in the interest of the Catholic religion"—
" to maintain the integrity of the Holy See"—" in the
interest of national institutions and of civilized states"—
" and above all, in the interest of peace, and for the pur-
pose of guaranteeing Europe against all collision." In hie
opinion, however, the only effect of the expedition would
be to produce all those evils which M. Perier said it was
his object to avert.—( Hear, hear.) He begged their
Lordships to understand, that his account of the expedition
was given by the French Minister, at the very time when
he had in his possession the statement and protestation of
the Papal Government.—(Hear, hear.) He had not read
to their Lordships the note of the Cardinal Secretary of
State, because he conceived they were acquainted with its
contents ; but ire felt it his duty to read the passage with
which the note concluded, being the protestation of the Pa-
pal Government against the French expedition. It was as fol-
lows; " His Holiness formally protests against the violation
of the Papal territory, which was accomplished on the
morning of the 23d of February by the French squadron,
against all the attacks committed at the same time against
his sovereignty, and against the infraction of the
sanatory laws by the squadron; and declares the French
Government responsible for whatever may be the result of
three acts. His Holiness demands that the French troops,
who have entered in a hostile manner into Ancona, do de-
part from that city immediately. Amidst the deep dis-
pleasure which his Holiness derives from an unhappy event,
he feels confident that he will obtain from the French Go-
vernment the just separation which he demands." Such
was the nature of the document which the French Mi-
nister had in his possession when he told the Chamber of
Deputies that the expedition was undertaken " in the
interest of the Holy See." In what position, then, did
these two Governments stand with regard to each other?
They were in a state of actual war. For what signified it
whether the French commander found it necessary to open
trenches before Ancona, and take it by a regular siege, or
whether he entered the place by force after breaking down
the gates?—whether he made the garrison prisoners after
fighting a regular action, or induced them to surrender
to prevent the effusion of blood ? One was just as much
an act of war as the other. It was true that the
Papal troops surrendered without striking a blow ; but
still the whole proceeding was characterized by violence,
and the violation of every principle of international
law. There was one passage in the Cardinal Secretary
of State's note, in which " the violation of the sanatory
laws" was complained of. It was almost impossible
for people in England to understand the importance
attached in Italy to the observance of those laws ; and an
additional character of outrage had been given to this most
extraordinary and unprecedented proceeaing, by their vio-
lation on the part of the French. Part of the force which
landed on the coast has disembarked from a frigate recently
arrived from Algiers, and which was at tie time under
quarantine ; and, by the laws of th wountry, every indi-
vidual belonging to that ship had renMred himself liable to
the punishment of death. He was sure that the violation
of the sanatory laws would, of itself, create throughout
Italy more alarm than it was possible for the inhabitants
of this country to conceive. This, then, was an adeli-
tional outrage committed by the French ; for to the
anarchy and confusion which the unfurling of the tri-
Icoloured flag could not fail to excite in Italy, they had
added the risk of pestilence.—(Hear, hear.) He men-
tioned this circumstance, to show the total absence of all
consideration and just feeling which prevailed in the con-
' duct of this enterprise, even supposing that the enter-
prise was necessary.—( Hear, hear.) The case was really
so unparalleled in the history of civilized nations, and con-
stituted so striking and flagrant an outrage of all the fun-
damental principles of public law, that he could not but
entertain a hope of the impossibility of the French Govern-
ment being responsible for such conduct.—(Hear.)
Earl GREY knew it was the usage and undoubted
right of every Noble Lord to put such questions, with re-
ference to public affairs, as it was the duty of the respon-
sible servants of the Crown to answer ; but he felt that be
was not introducing a new species of discipline, and was
only enforcing the standing orders with respect to the re-
gularity of their proceedings, when he deprecated the
practice of the Noble Earl of making a question of explana-
tion the mere pretext of expatiating at length, in unmea-
sured language, on topics with which he was necessarily
imperfectly acquainted, and which Ministers could not
consistently with their duty in the then stage of the tran-
saction explain—assuming for indisputable and acknow-
ledged facts what could not be satisfactorily gainsaid
without probably embarrassing Ministers, and certainly
could tend to no useful purpose whatever.—(Hear,
hear.) This it was that he had protested against on
a former occasion, and would so then, though he
feared with as little chance of success. He would not,
however, be provoked by the Noble Earl into a prema-
ture discussion, and would confine his reply to a simple
statement of facts. Tne Noble Earl hoped the explana-
tion of Ministers would be of a character calculated to alle-
viate his fears for the preservation of the peace of Europe.
If the Noble Earl was sincere in that hope, it struck him
that it would be just as well if he had abstained from ex-
citing a discussion which was eminently calculated to
disturb that peace,—from aggravating every circum-
stance connected with the transaction at Ancona likely to
irritate one of the parties,—and, in fact, from studiously
and pertinaciously inflaming every feeling against the
French Government that had a tendency to create hosti-
lity between the two Powers, and thus compromise that
general tranquillity which the Noble Earl professed to
have so much at heart.—(Hear.) If the preservation of
the peace of Europe was so anxious an object of the
Noble Earl's wishes, he asked hirer how could he at
this moment or stage of a transaction, seek to provoke a
discussion, when he himself was ignorant of its circum-
stances, and Ministers were in a manner tongue-tied by
considerations involving their official character and re-
sponsibility ?—( Hear.) The Noble Earl bad indulged in
harsh and most unfounded remarks on the recent speech of
the French Prime Minister, and yet told them his object
was to preserve inviolable our amiable relations with the
French Government. The Noble Earl might find pas-
sages in M. Perier's speech but little palatable to him,
from their lofty views and liberal policy—(Hear)—might,
perhaps, detect sentences open to his criticism on the head
of indefinite and unintellgible phraseology; but surely
such criticism and such censure could lead to no good
purpose whatever.—(Hear, hear.) Besides the Noble
Earl's criticism eves so obviously partial, so one-eided, that
he could not—that is, would not—see that if the passage
with respect to Ancona was not very translucent, the
tenour of the other parts of the speech made it perfectly
intelligible, and must satisfy him tnat peace was the guid-
ing object of the policy of the French Government--
(flear)—and that that Government spewed itself honestly
intent, that, while it was conscious of its power to assert
the independence of France, it carefully respected the in-
dependence of other States, and discouraged every attempt
to excite insurrection or disunion in thein.—(Hear, bear.)
Having been unwittingly induced t o snake these remarks,
in answer to the Noble Earl, he would now confine him-
self to his immediate gut-name—to proceed further would
not be prudent in the present stage of the transaction.
The Noble Earl taunted him with an alacrity to seise hold
of every opportunity to eulogize the French Government
--(Hear)—and particularly referred to what he (Earl
Grey) had said on a former occasion with respect to the

,r,ood faith of that Government. Now he had no hesita-
ion to confess to the Noble Earl, that it did afford hi-
leasure, whenever the opportunity presented itself, to ex-
tress the conviction that the conduct of the French Govern.
'pent was entitled to the approbation of every man who was
anxious to promote a good understandiug between the
*wo countrie,, as a—perhaps the only—means of moonlit,
,he peace of Europe.—(Loud cries of " Hear.") On the
A:casino to which the Noble Earl referred, he said tha
-here was nothing in the transaction of the French expedi-
ton to Italy,—that is, that nothing had transpired with
respect to its character and object calculated to shake his
confidence in the good faith and sincerity of the French
Cabinet.—(Hear, hear.) He then repeated his declaration
—(Hear)—and that the French Government officially
communicated to the English and Austrian Courts the fact
of their intention to despatch a force is Italy in case the
Austrian Government should again interfere with her
armies in the affairs of the Italian States, over which she
claimed no sovereignty.---(Hear.) The French Govern-
ment thus communicated the fact ()flier intention to inter-
i.ere in the event of the interference of another Govern-
nsent, and subsequently communicated the fact of her
having acted upon her pre-announced resolution. He was
not then called upon to offer an opinion on the policy of
this resolution and its consequences,—nor did he feel that
he should be justified, under existing circumstances, in
detailing the course pursued by this country on its an-
nouncement; the rather, as if he stated the course pursued
by the English Government, he was bound also to
state that adopted by Austria—a statement which
evidently would be highly inexpedient, indeed improper,
at that particular moment.—(Hear, hear.) He might,
however, state, what had been done with respect
to the forcible occupation of the garrison at An-
cona by the French troops, referred to in strong
terms of censure by the Noble Lord. It was open
to the Noble Earl to state what opinions he pleased as to
the character of the transaction, as he was not responsible
further than in his general senatorial capacity; but riot so
with him (Earl Grey), who, filling a respon-ible situation,
was necessarily bound to bG more wary in his language.—
(Hear.) He would, however, admit that the account of
that transaction occasioned great surprise to Ministers—
(Hear)—and had also very much surprised the French Go-
vernment.—(Hear, hear.) The French Government ins-
mediately disclaimed in the most emphatic manner all par-
ticipation with the conduct of the commanding officer of
the force at Ancona—(Hear)—recalled that officer forth-
with—(Hear)—made a statement of the facts to the Aus.
trian and Papal Governments, which with its accompa-
nying assurance would, he trusted, be satisfactory to both ;
and which he confidently expected would have the effect of
preventing the expedition from affecting the peace of Eu-
rope.—(Hear.) He entirely agreed with the Noble Earl
as to the tendency of such a forcible occupation of the
garrison of a foreign State, to disturb the peace of Eu-
rope; and also agreed with him that no transaction
likely to disturb the peace of Europe could be a mat-
ter of indifference to the English Government. He
would also admit that the first appearance or impression
of the French expedition to Ancona bore that peace-de-
stroying character—(Hear)—but would repeat that he
had every reason to assert that it would not product a
consequence so much to be deprecated..--(Hear.) He had
already stated that he did not then feel himself justified to
explain the course pursued by Ministers, further than to
state, that they had promptly adopted measures which
were well taken on the part of France, and which he was
confident would be satisfactory to the Austrian Govern-
ment ; the rather as, since their having been undertaken,
a special request had been made by the Court of Vienna
for the English Government to act as it had acted.—(Hear,
hear.) These were all the circumstances connected with
the transactions that he then felt himself at liberty to ex-
plain, but trusted that they would be considered, by their
Lordships, as a satisfactory refutation of the Noble Earl's
charge against Ministers.—(Cheers.) The transaction,
he repeated, took him somewhat by surprise, but
would not, he confidently believed, lead to an in-
fringement of the general tranquillity which at a first
blush it seemed so calculated to endanger. He agreed
with the Noble Earl that it was the duty of Ministers
to afford every explanation in their power on questions af-
fecting the honour and interests of the country. He ad-
mitted their responsibility, and did not shrink from its
consequences, but denied that their conduct on the present
occasion at all compromised the honour and interests of
the country. If, indeed, it was of such a character, no
stigma could be too severe, no punishment too heavy; but
till it was proved that that punishment and stigma were
merited, he thought it not too much to ask the Noble
Earl to forbear his censures till the time had arrived when
Ministers might, without injury to the public service, af-
ford such information as would show that their conduct in
the transaction was above all reproach. The Noble Earl
having again deprecated discussions in the absence of in-
formation, and under pretexts of merely seeking for that
information, said he hoped that the debate would not pro-
ceed farther, as, in the present stage of the transaction to
which it referred, he could not, and would not, be induced
so afford any additional information.
The Earl of ABERDEEN confessed himself very much
satisfied with the Noble Earl's statement, and felt that he
was only performing an act of duty in eliciting it.