The Sun.
London, England, 1859-01-29 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JANUARY 29, 1859,

population to each of them is 66,000. You will
observe, therefore, that the purely agricultural
counties and divisions are much more fully
represented than the manufacturing and min-
ing counties, inasmuch as a population of
55,000 to a member is better than one of
66,000 to a member. Then, with respect to Lan-
cashire and the West Riding of Yorkshire, which
I call three divisions, because I divide the former
into North and South Lancashire, I propose that
they should return 13 members, and the average to
each member would be 137,000. Therefore, you
will see at once that at any rate I have not shown any
partiality in the distribution of members to the
three divisions of North and South Lancashire and
the West Riding of Yorkshire. (Hear.) Now I
must compare these with the great boroughs, be
cause that is the question of the counties alone, the
purely agricultural are much the most represented,
and those that are manufacturing and mining are
less so, and Lancashire and the West Riding are
much less represented than any other counties; now
I come to the consideration of 17 of the largest
boroughs, 12 of which, according to my scheme,
were to receive four members each, and five six
members each, in all 78 members, and every one of
those 78 members, representing the largest 17
boroughs in the kingdom, would have the constitu-
ency,t, ism
or roaatherueah
a whole heovleerypmopeumlbateironof oafoy6p2,oolo.eoly;
therefore,
agricultural county has but 55,000 of a population,
and every member of those large boroughs would
have 62,000, you see that I do not give to those
large boroughs areamount of representation equal to
that which the agricultural counties would have.
So far, then, as these large boroughs are concerned,
the answer is complete to the Times, or to anybody
else who calls in question my impartiality. (Hear.)
But I come now to consider other boroughs, be-
cause as we descend the list we shall find many
smaller boroughs than those to which I have re-
ferred, and with them the representation appears
to be considerably in excess. You will recollect I
stated that the Times asserted that taking
87 seats from those disfranchised boroughs
was taking 87 seats from the landed interest,
and transferring them to the commercial interest.
I want to know whether there are no boroughs left
—still called boroughs—which are just as much
county seats and connected with the landed interest
as those which I propose to disfranchise. Take
the county in which we live; many of you know
the town of Clitheroe, it's a small town. The last
time I was through it I am sorry to say that it
looked less prosperous than even when I knew it
many years ago. But the town of Clitheroe does
not return the member for Clitheroe. I saw yester-
day, in a very influential paper in the north of Lan-
cashire, the Preston Guardian, an article on the
subject, and it states, and I presume that it is true,
that the borough of Clitheroe is 14 miles long, and
that there are in that neighbourhood, and chiefly
within the borough, not less than five landed pro-
prietors whose united income from land is about
£45,000 a-year, and the incorporation of all that
land with the little town of Clitheroe gives their
representation into the hands of the proprietors of
the soil. The member for Clitheroe, therefore, is
just as much a member of the landed and whatthey
call the county interest, as the member for any
, county in the kingdom. Take, again, the borough
of Lancaster, which, I see, the Times proposes to
treat more hardly than I did, for I proposed to leave
it as is, and he wishes to take one member from it.
The borough of Lancaster, I learn from the same
authority, is united with about 20 townships ; all
that land, therefore, which lies adjacent to the
borough gives great influence in the elections for
borough; and boroughs of that nature may in con-
sequence be regarded as more connected with the
landed interest than they are with the commercial
and manufacturing interests. Although in the
vicissitudes of party, you find, of course, occasion-
ally the land triumphant, while at other times the
independence of the population makes head against
landowners, and members of another character are
returned. I have looked over my three schedules
B, C, D, and I have marked no less than 47 seats.
I believe there are far more, but I have been ex-
tremely careful in my marking, which my scheme
leaves as they now are, every one of which may be
considered to be connected, directly and insepar-
ably, with the countyrepresentation of the country.
The Times ignores that. lam charged with trans-
ferring all those little boroughs and their seats from
the land to trade. But lam told that I leave 47
seats—and I may say nearly 60 seats in the small
boroughs, which may be said to be generally as
much connected with the landed interest in the
counties in which they are situate as the majority
of those boroughs which are proposed to be disfran-
chised. Now, let us see how the figures stand. If I
take all the population of the counties of England
and Wales, exclusive of Lancashire and the West
Riding, and if I add to that the population repre-
sented by those 47 seats, and if I divide that whole
population by themembers for those counties, added
to the 47 seats, I show that the representation of
the counties stands thus—that there is onemember
for every 45,400. I will not confine myself to the
great boroughs which I spoke of before. I will take
the boroughs with six members, those with four
members, and those with three members, being al-
together 147 seats, and adding to the counties those
boroughs the increase of population since the last
census was taken it becomes capable of demonstra-
tion and cannot be contradicted that those 147 per-
sons represent each a larger number of population
than each of the counties and the small borough
members to which I have referred. (Hear.) But
there is another point in which this should be
viewed ; take the 42 counties of England alone for
example (I call them 42, because Yorkshire counts
as three), take them and reckon any county with
all the population in it, both borough and county,
with all the members, both borough and county
members, and how do the counties stand ? They
stand in this position—that there are six of these 42
counties that have their exact number of members—
that is, the counties and the boroughs within them.
There are also nine of them that have somewhat
less than they ought to have ; and, again, there are
23 that have more, and some of them considerably
more than they ought to have, while there
are four that are greatly deficient—namely,
Lancashire, which according to my scheme
would still be eight membvs deficient; Middlesex,
which would be nine deficient; Surrey, which would
be six deficient, and the West Riding of Yorkshire,
which would be 11 deficient. Thus these four po-
pulous counties would be 34 deficient, and these 34
members are really distributed among :those 23
other counties which, as I have stated, have really
an excess of representation. (Cheers.) Now, I shall
be met by the argument that it is not fair to take
any given county with the boroughs in it, and add
all the members together and say that this county
is fairly represented in its county interest. But I
would ask you to look over the counties of England,
so far as you are acquainted with them, and then
you will find that there is a great union of interest
between any particular county and the boroughs
in that county. Is there no community of interest
between the agriculture, such as it is, of Lancashire
and the manufacturers of Lancashire ? A very
strong blending of interest we find everywhere.
And, in like manner, if you go to a purely agricul-
tural county you will find the little town in that
county has strong. affinity with what may be called
the agricultural interest that surrounds it. The
people in the town are relations of the people in
the country. The people in the country come into
the town to make their purchases. Their interests
are greatly blended together, and therefore, in
looking over the general representation of the whole
kingdom, I think it is quite fair to draw the line
that I have adopted, and to show that, taking every
county by itself, its county population with its
borough population, and its county.members with its
borough members, all these counties have a fair
distribution of members ; and these only have any
real or important deficiency—viz., the West Riding,
Lancashire, Surrey,and Middlesex. And if the county
gentlemen of England and the Times wish to give
more members to these four counties, for my
part I have not the smallest objection. (Loud
cheers.) But now there is another point. The
landed proprietors of England may be styled
"the leisure class of England ;" they are not
half so busy as merchants and manufacturers tied to
their counting-houses or to their milla from morning
till evening. The landed classes are those who offer
the greatest number of their members as candidates
for Parliamentary honours, and you find that in a
great number of boroughs which may be said to be
a sort of neutral territory, for you don't know
whether they are for trade more particularly or
whether they are for land. These are ,represented
in vast numbers by gentlemen connected with the
landed interest, and whose sympathies are altoge-
ther opposed to any policy which may be deemed
adverse to that interest. (Hear, hear.) I believe
that when this scheme of mine shall be more
thoroughly understood, or completely understood
by any impartial person, he will come to the con-
clusion that if it were passed into law the landed
interest would still have—l will not say a great
preponderance in the House of Commons—but that
it would have a power in excess of anything that it
could justly claim. (Hear.) • But then we have
another question, which is the character of the
House lof Lords. I want the Times and t 1 •,e
gentlemen who are complaining of injustice to the
landed interest—l want them to give us some
explanation of this case. The whole mass of the
Lords is territorial. There are a few lawyers and
a few soldiers—(laughter)—and a few men who,
from one cause or another—but a most insignificant
number—are put into that house little connected
with the land. But nineteen-twentieths of them
are distincly and closely connected with the land,
and that is the original reason, and the still existant