The Sun.
London, England, 1866-02-17 00:00:00

LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

Mr. AYRTON gave notice of his intention to move tho
appointment of a committee to consider the subject of
local government and local taxation in the metropolis.
UNION CHARGEABILITY (SCOTLAND).
Mr. E. CRAUFURD asked the Lord Advocate whether
he was prepared to extend to Scotland the beneficial prin-
ciples of the Union Chargeability Act passed last
vssion for England, by introducing a measure to charge
the relief of the poor in each county in Scotland on a com-
mon fr.nd to be raised over the whole county ?
The LORD-A DVO CATE said he had no such intention.
PLAIN CLOTHES POLICEMEN.
Lord H. LENNOX asked the Secretary of State for
the Home Department whether his attention had
been called to the employment of police constables
in plain clothes, in the suburban districts of the
Metropolis, and to the serious results which
have already occurred, and are likely to occur, in
consequence ; and especially to the recent case at Syden-
ham, when Police-constable Maddock was wounded on
the highway by a man named Joseph Ferguson, now con-
fined in Maidstone Gaol, but who at the time of the

assault believed that he was only defending himself and
his property against the attacks of a robber.

Sir G. GREY said he did not know anything of the par-
ticular case referred to. In 1862, in consequence of the
frequency of garotte robberies, it had been found neces-
sary to have police-constables in plain clothes, as the men
in uniform were watched, and it was whilst they were
away that many of these robberies were committed. It
was only by employing officers in plain clothes that they
could keep down robberies in the highways.
THE IRISH LAW OFFICERS.

Colonel LESLIE asked the Attorney-General for Ire-
land what arrangements were made to carry on the Go-
vernment business in that country without the presence of
any law officer, the Castle adviser, contrary to precedent,
being now in Parliament, as well as the Attorney and Soli-
citor-General.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said he
was not aware that any complaint had been made in
which the Government in Ireland was concetaed. The
fact that himself and the Solicitor-General hav-
ing ;.eats in the house did not interfere in
the slightest manner detrimentally. With respect
to the office of Castle adviser, he begged to say
that his hon. friend did not hold that office at the present
moment, as he had resigned previous to the general elec-
tion. He had continued to act, however, at his solicitatikm,
for a short time longer ; but he did so without receiving
any remuneration. When the law officers for Ireland were
absent from the house complaints of such absence were
often made.

CATTLE PLAGUE.
In reply to an HON. MEMBER,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said ho did
not think it would be likely that the house could go on
with the discussion on the cattle plcgue to-morrow, as
his hon. friend, the Secretary of State for the Home De-
partment, would have to make a motion for the house
sitting to-morrow for important business with respect to
Ireland.
Mr. BRIGHT asked if the experiments for the purpose
of discovering a cure for the cattle plague were to bo con-
tinued notwithstanding the passing of the bill.
Sir G. GREY said the experiments were made by the
Commissioners and not by the Government. He did not
think any very great result had proceeded from the ex-
periments that had already taken place. The keeping alive
diseased cattle would be an evasion of the bill.
JAMAICA.

Mr. B. COCHRANE asked the Government whether
they intended to proceed with the Government of Jamaica
Bill the first time on Monday?
Mr. CARDWELL said he should not proceed with the
bill on Monday, without he could do so at an early hour.
NAVY ESTIMATES.
In reply to Sir J. PAKINGTON,
Lord C. PAGET said he should move the navy estimates
on Monday the 26th.
SUSPENSION OF THE HABEAS CORPUS
ACT IN IRELAND.

Sir G. GREY said he rose with the deepest regret to
move that the house, at its rising, adjourn until 12 o'clock
to-morrow (Saturday), in order to enable him to move for
leave to bring in a bill to suspend the Habeas Corpus Act
in Ireland.
On the motion for the adjoin ament being put,
Mr. HUNT asked the course the Government intended
to pursue with respect to the cattle disease bill after the
discussion 0: the house last night.
Sir G. GREY suggested that, as the house had
assented to the clauses with respect to slaughter,
compensation, and rating, that portion of the bill could be
separated from the measure, and passed into law. The
Government deferred to the majority last night, with
respect to total suspension of removal of cattle by railway,
but he must say he still held the opinion that it was not
the most judicious course to adopt. He thought the gene-
ral and permanent arrangements in the bill for the removal
of the cattle on the highways might safely be divided from
the general measure, and dee't with in a separate bill.
This course was assented to, and the motion for the ad-
journment was agreed to.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
The army estimates were laid on the table.
CATTLE DISEASES BILL.
The house then went into committee on this:bill.
Clauses from 22 to 30 inclusive were struck out of the
bill.

Mr.
AYRTON took objection to the proposal to raise
one-third of the compensation by a cattle rate, and sh owed
the hardship which it would inflict on the owners of
diseased cattle. He preferred that the whole sum should
be raised from the local rates.
Mr. J. S. MILL said the hon. member for the Tower
Hamlets having done him the honour of making reference
to some observations of his, appeared not altogether to
have seized upon his argument. Perhaps ho might be
allowed in a few words to recapitulate the substance of
that argument. The hon. member had laid down the prin-
ciple that taxation ought to be so regulated as not to be
partial, and that a particular class of the community ought
not to be taxed in order to indemnify them from the con-
sequences of a calamity because they had already suffered
to so great a degree. Now, his argument was grounded
on this, that the class, though the sufferers immediately,
were not the sufferers ultimately by this calamity, in any
other way than the rest of the community, inasmuch as
they are consumers of food. (No, no, from the Opposition.)
Such a proceeding would relieve them from the conse-
quences of this misfortune, except that portion which
they, as consumers, would bear in common with the rest
of the community. In consequence of this, it followed
that if they took from the whole community, in order to
give special indemnity to a particular class for what they
suffered instead of taxing them partially, they would be
taxing the rest of the community in order to relieve them.
This was his argument, and he had seen nothing to alter
it. That part of the bill which made provision for the com-
pensation to which the hon. gentleman the member for the
Tower Hamlets referred was the only part of the whole
which he conceived to be founded on a correct principle.
(Laughter.) It was compensation, not for a burden, but
for the inequality of a burden. The class, as a class, would
bo compensated in the ordinary order of things ; but this
was the compensation which was due from the more for-
tunate of themselves to the less fortunate, and this the tax
on cattle would effect. Thus he contended that in principle
the tax, whatever it might be, ought not to be a general
rate, but a rate on land only. (No, no, from the Opposi-
tion.) Although he thought the clause was capable of
amendment, he would be disposed to support a very diffe-
rent alteration to that proposed.
Mr. B. COCHRANE and Sir J. PAXINGTON argued in
favour of drawing a portion of the rate from the general
funds of the county.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE, despairing of obtaining the assent
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to any contribution
from the Consolidated Fund, recommended that the whole
charge should be borne by the county rate.
Mr. J. B. SMITH recommended the imposition of a
general cattle rate.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER characterised
the proposal to lay the Consolidated Fund under contribu-
tion as novel, inexpedient, and entirely unasked for by the
agriculturists, and reminded the house of the forcible
argument used by Mr. Lowe, that to secure the great ad-
vantages of a local administration it was necessary that
some portion of the funds should be raised from local
sources. As to the proposal to levy the whole by a general
cattle rate, he said that the Government, in the particular
proposal they had made, had acted on the principle that
no persons were more interested in checking the disease
than stockowners in the neighbourhood of infected dis-
tricts, and they further believed that it would have the
effect of preventing any kind of contest between town
and country.
Mr. LO WE pointed out to the house that Mr. J. S.
Mill's argument as to the ultimate incidence of the loss on
the consumer was based on the fallacy that this was a bill
to indemnify for losses, whereas the object of this part of
it was simply to hold out an inducement to the farmer to
disclose the existence of disease among his cattle. He
asked Mr. Mill to mention a case in which producers had
been indemnified for a great calamity of this kind by a
rise in price, and reminded him that English cattle growers
had very formidable competitors in foreign importers. But,
admitting that Mr. Mill's argument was sound, he con-
tended that the consumers were not absolved from making
every effort to avert a great national emergency. He
showed the difficulty of levying a cattle rate on a tempo-
rary emergency, and urged the advantage of using the
existing machinery of the county rate.
Mr. MILL said he would reply to the strictires of the
right hon. gentleman who had just sat down in a very few
sentences. In the first place his right hon. friend though

it was a complete answer to his argument to say that the
object of this tax was not compensation, but to give a
motive to farmers whose cattle were diseased to declare
that they were so. Now ho (Mr. Mill) really thought
that the motive that was held out to farmers was derived
from the compensation itself, and from the quarter whence
it came. If the farmer received £lO, £l5, or £2O for a
dead ox, it made no difference whether it was paid by a tax
on cattle, or from the county rate, or from the Consoli-
dated Fund. In the second place, his right hon. him!
had laid down the proposition that it was not always the
case that losses, by diminishing the quantity of any article,
necessarily increase the price. He was fully aware of
this ; but it was much commoner that this should be the
case than otherwise. In the next place, his right hon.
friend thought it was extremely unreasonable in him not
to take into account that portion of tho supply of cattle
which was imported into this country. Now, so far from
neglecting this, he had referred particularly to it on a
former occasion. But he argued, when heeentioned this
fact, that the quantity imported was so very small a pro-
portion of the whole that was consumed, that it could not
be specially taken into account. (Oh, oh.) With regard
to the asylum illustration employed by his right hon
friend, he would merely ask, was there any economic law
by which patients in a lunatic asylum were compensated
for the expenses of that asylum. (Laughter and cheers.)
Sir G. GREY intimated that the Government, seeing
the feeling of the house, would give
.up their proposal for
a cattle rate.
The clause was amended to this effect.
On clause 50, which gives a legislative sanction to the
Orders in Council issued on this subject, •