The Sun.
London, England, 1866-02-22 00:00:00

ARRIVAL OF THE NEW YORK.

SOUTHAMPTON, Feb. 22.

The North German Lloyd's steamer New York, from
New York on tho 10th inst., arrived off the Needles at
10.40 a.m.

The Queen's Colleges.

DEPUTATION TO EARL RUSSELL.

Yesterday Earl Russell received a deputation at
his official residence in Downing-street, consisting
of a number of gentlemen interested in the main-
tenance of the present system of education in Ire-
land. They included the Rev. Dr. Wilson
(Moderator of the General Assembly of the Presby-
terian Church in Ireland), the Rev. Mr. M‘Naugh-
ten (ex-Moderator), the Rev. Mr. Denham, the
Rev. Mr. Pettigrew, and the Rev. Mr. Robinson.
The deputation represented the North and South
of Ireland, and several of the more important towns,
especially those in which the Queen's Colleges have
been established.

The MODERATOR, addressing Lord Russell, stated
that although the deputation consisted of members
of the community to which he belonged, they still
claimed to represent all classes in Ireland without
reference to creed or politics. He contended that
the Queen's Colleges and the Queen's University
had perfectly realised the object of the original
founders, which was to give a united and unsec-
tarian education to the youth of Ireland, without
denominational distinction, and thus to remove one
of the causes which operated to divide and dis-
tract the people of that country. He pointed
out to the noble lord that the colleges had been
approved of by the Roman Catholic hierarchy, in-
eluding Archbishop Manning and Archbishop Crolly,
as also by a vast majority of the-laity professing
that faith. But he said when Archbishop Cullen,
who held the office of Pope's Legate in Ireland, was
translated to the Roman Catholic see of Dublin, a
revolution of feeling took place not only amongst
the Roman Catholic clergy, but also to a consider
able extent amongst the laity also, and that the
colleges and the University were denounced. A
Roman Catholic university was set up in opposition
to it, which was now about to be endowed by the
State. He contended that if the Queen's Univer-
sity were to be enlarged, as was now proposed, the
Roman Catholic element would be so strong that
virtually the direction and control of public educa-
tion iu Ireland would fall into their hands, and the
Roman Catholic youth now attending the Queen's
Colleges would be drawn away to the affiliated Ro-
man Catholic University. The effect would be that
the principle of united education which the Govern-
ment had so supported, and from which so much
benefit was derived, would be altogether de-
stroyed.
0 ther members of the deputation subsequently
addressed his lordship, and stated that the Presby-
terians of Ireland, who had long maintained their
loyalty to the Crown, and who had endeavoured by
their influence to impress all their fellow-subjects
with feelings of attachment to its institutions, looked
upon the proposed alterations as being of the most
alarming character ; and it was their conviction
that they would, if carried out, destroy that feeling
of unity and honourable rivalry among the students
which now existed, and which, if allowed to con-
tinue, would have the happiest effects in allaying
long standing sources of irritation and animosity in
the country.
Earl RUSSELL said—l have listened with great
attention to the remarks which have fallen from the
members of the deputation, and I assure them I
should be very glad if all parties could be contented
with the changes which are in contemplation or
which may be intended. It seems to me, I confess,
that the duty of the Government is to act with per-
fect impartiality towards the various religious per-
suasions in Ireland, and in conformity with that
view the system of national education was estab-
lished by means of the National Board. Objec-
tion was then made by the Presbyterians iu the
north of Ireland, and (as you yourselves state in a
paper which I hold in my hand) an agreement was
come to by which the Presbyterians were to receive
aid from the National Board of Education. The
Government of Ireland, previously to that time,
had consulted with the representatives of the Pres-
byterian body, and, finding some of the concessions
which they demanded reasonable, agreed to make
these concessions, and the terms upon which the
Presbyterians of Ireland consented to receive aid
were in my mind perfectly fair and reasonable.
That, however, did not imply any change in the
principles of the National Board. Well, we now
come to the question of academical education. It
has been observed very truly by the Moderator of
the General Assembly that Archbishop Cullen

objected to the Queen's Colleges soon after their
formation. I beg leave to say that he was not
the only person who made an objection to them,
nor was he the first to object; for I well remember
that, when the plan was laid before the House of
Commons, Sir Harry Inglis, one of the members for
the University of Oxford, denounced it as a gigantic
scheme of godless education. That phrase was mis-
applied, and I did not agree with him. The Queen's
Colleges were founded on a sound principle, and I
am glad to hear of the success which has attended
them. At the same time one cannot, or ought not,
to be surprised that Roman Catholics should consider
it wrong that they should have an academical edu-
cation in which their own religion was not made a
prominent feature, and in which youths of their own
denomination could not receive that elementary in-
struction which it is desirable they should receive
with regard to the doctrines of their religion. I
believe that if we were to go to the heads of the
houses of the Universities of Oxford or Cambridge,
and ask them to consent to do what is done at Bel-
fast, and call upon them to take no account of the
teaching of the doctrines of the Church of England
in any of their colleges, they would at once refuse
to make any such concession. That being the case
in England, I cannot wonder that the great majority
of the Roman Catholic body in Ireland, especially
the bishops of the Roman Catholic Church, have
opposed and discountenanced the plan of the Queen's
colleges. The question is, whether there should be
any allowance made for those parents and those sons
who felt conscientious scruples on those points. In
England we have yielded to the behests of the Roman
Catholic body in that regard, and young men who
may be students at Oscott, Stonyhurst, or elsewhere,
may come to London, and if they show that they
have the proper attainments they can acquire the
same academical honours and distinctions as may
be obtained by such as have come up from any Pro-
testant or other institution in the kingdom. Some
members of Parliament, representing Roman Ca-
tholic constituencies, and the Roman Catholic com-
munity have asked that the same privileges may be
allowed to Irishmen in their own country as are
allowed to Englishmen in theirs—at the London
University. And I confess that iS appears to me the
proposition is a very reasonable one. It is not, I
think, a sufficient answer to them to say, " We can-
not recognise your complaint, for you have only to
cross the Straits which divide England from Ireland
and you can have in London all the advantages
which yon claim." This is not a sufficient answer
to what, I think, are natural scruples, and I think
an attempt ought to be made to secure to Roman
Catholics in Ireland the same academical advan-
tages which they would receive if they were here
in England. Such has been the foundation of
the inquiries which have been made by the
Government. Of the measures which are in con-
templation by the Government I cannot. give
you the details, because they are not yet set-
tled ; and although I fancy Archbishop Cullen will
not be satisfied with the proposed changes, still if we
propose nothing but what is fair and impartial, re-
gard being bad to the large number of the Irish peo-
ple who are Roman Catholics, we cannot, I think,
be blamed if we endeavour to give them, in conside-
ration of their attainments, the same honours and
marks of pre-eminence which they deserve, and
which they would obtain if they were educated in
England. The changes in contemplation are en-
tirely with that view ; and I trust that neither the
system of primary education under the National
Board nor the Queen's Colleges will suffer from
the changes which we propose. With regard to
those who have no conscientious scruples to attend
the Queen's Colleges, they will, of course, continue
to avail themselves of them ; while, on the other
hand, those who do entertain conscientious scruples
will have other facilities afforded them of acquiring
academical distinctions.

The MODERATOR thanked the noble earl for the
courtesy with which they had been received, and
added that the deputation were there in the interests
of educated Roman Catholics themselves. He held
in his hand a pamphlet written by an Irish Roman
Catholic baronet (Sir Dominick Corrigan, lU.D.),
on the Freedom of Education, in which a hope was
expressed that the Government would, in the inte-
rests of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, uphold the
present system.
The deputation then withdrew.

Extract from Mr. Goschen's Private Diary.

(From the Owl.)

To-day I took my seat in the Cabinet for the
first time. I confess that I felt very shy, and it
was some time before I could quite make up my
mind to go in. I felt rather like the Amateur
Casual, and got out of my brougham in the same
sort of half-confident manner. I got to No. 10,
Downing-street, and tried to look as if I knew
exactly where the Cabinet room was, and hoping
that I should see Gladstone or some one to show me
the way ; but unfortunately I saw no one except a
most civil old gentleman with grey hair, who looked
at me most kindly as I walked down the long passage
in the entrance of the house. Of course I thought he
knew me by sight ; and when he pointed to the right
and said, " That way to the Treasury," I fancied
that of course the First Lord would naturally sit
there and the Cabinet with him. I accordingly
went up some stairs, and after some trouble found
myself in a kind of open hall, with several messen-
gers seated behind a glass frame like early vegetables,
being forced with mutton chops, potatoes, and beer.
On asking one of these gentlemen where the Cabinet
was, he first inquired what I wanted, and then sug-
gested that the Cabinet was not on view for the pub-
lic. I confess that at this moment I forcibly felt
the inconvenience of not having been trained up in
official habits, for if I had been, the messenger
would most likely have known me, or, at all events, I
should have known how to treat him. With great
civility, however, the messenger guided me back
again the way I had come, and pointed out the door
where he said the Cabinet sat. I accordingly walked
straight up to it, and, with an effort of boldness,
quite contrary to my usual character, was about to
open the door, when my grey-haired friend rushed
up to me, and, seizing me by the arm, said, " You
must not go in there, sir ; the Cabinet is sitting."
I explained to him that I was the Duke of Lancaster,
or the Lord Chancellor, or Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, for I was so nervous, and had been so recently
moved out, that, like wine, I was rather sick, and
hardly knew where I was. In fact, it was not till I
mentioned my name was Goschen that he really
took in who I was, and allowed me to pass in. I
never felt so shy in my life as at that moment. But
I must say that they were all very kind to me,
excepting one Minister whom I will not name, who
remarked, in an audible whisper, " Here is the
theory of Foreign Exchanges;" but, as it was only an
exchange from the Board of Trade to the Duchy of
Lancaster, I thought it was a bad joke. Well, I
felt very like a new boy, and also very like a boy
who had becomo a prxposter so soon, that the rest
of the pra3posters who are much older feel very
jealous of him. I was given a chair at the table,
which, by the bye, is like any other table ; and, as
all shy people do, I of course only sat on the very
edge of it, much as Lord Russell sits on Reform,
After a time, however, I got over the feeling of
shyness, and even offered some observations on the
subject under discussion. I got on very well, and
at last actually ventured to blow my nose, which
was very well received by them on the whole,
though the Duke of Argyll seemed to think it
rather a liberty for a new Minister to take.
.11together, I think that they are not a very
different set to what you may meet any day
on the board of a good joint-stock company,
and it certainly is surprising how a nearer acquaint-
ance with a Cabinet shows in many parts of the
work the thinness of the veneer.
EXTRACT FRO3I LORD lIARTINGTON'S PRIVATE