The Sun.
London, England, 1866-02-09 00:00:00

0-
hon. member for Traleel; and he :4im,4,4if; -"-
-91:Vi4j,
~Y4:4-fq: 1,:-.7it.a. e Ltirq
substitution or as addition. In WfiestarecAlat' '
t,
,_
~
__ "91$4*
the wisdom or the necessity of a fNeein -,-.:r.A...';','
the House of Commons to the world:111%1th niuth 'a
presentation among persons not so well informed as them-
selves as to the actual state of the country, that wide-
spread disaffection existed in Ireland. He further doubted
the wisdom of representing thUt the causes of that disaffec-
tion, which on that occasion must be interpreted to mean
Fenianism, were the result of certain grave causes which
it was their duty—and it was therefore implied to be within
their power—to inquire into and remove. His objections
to that amendment were twofold. First, he was far from
saying that it was intended as a justification or palliation
of the evil, but it partook too much, he thought, of that
character, or at least of that appearance. He confessed,
too, he greatly objected to stating the evils of Ireland,
whatever they might be, were the result of causes which
it was their duty to remove. Why that very flattering and
alluring declaration? - and because it was flattering and
alluring he suspected and hesitated to adopt it all the
more. The evils of Ireland were inveterate. The hon. and
gallant member for Longford, in an able speech that night,
well pointed out that in a country where misgovernment
or oppression has prevailed, they must not, even by re-
moving the cause, expect immediately to get 'rid of the
effect. They might withdraw the weapon which had
caused the wound ; but it did not follow that 'the
process of healing would be immediate. And there-
fore old and complicated and inveterate as was
the great Irish question in all its branches, he hesitated to
adopt any words which seemed to pledge Parliament to a
promise beyond what they had it in their power to fulfil.
On those grounds he simply objected to the amendment ; •
but he confessed he thought there was a still wider ground
for objection. Her Majesty had here before her the case -.
of a conspiracy subversive of law, property, order, and '
religion. It was all very well for her Majesty, or for that
house, when dealing with those who sought amendments of
the law, to enter frankly into the discussion of amendments
of the law. But those were not parties seeking an amend-
ment of the law. They were parties seeking to dismem-
ber the British Empire, besides producing to Ireland con-
sequences as ruinous as he had described. It did appear
to him that the Executive Government, in the face of facts
like those, had one duty to perform ; he did not say its
only duty, but a first duty, and one so distinct and impor-
tant that it ought not to mix up the performance of that
duty with anything that could be construed into a condi-
tion er a restriction ; and, therefore, ho frankly owned he •
w.....leath to the last degree, that in dealing with Fenianism
they shouleflide-in dunnexfOn witEWllat flii-SSiii-afcl on that
subject promises of the nature of those he had described—
promises which might be well enough in their own place
and character and time, provided they were limited in
their terms, and not liable to misunderstanding, but which
substitution or addition to this paragraph would, if exa- _
mined, be found not to be in the right place or in the right
time. But having said that, and having, as strongly and -
clearly as he could, asserted.their duty of confining them- _
selves in the Address they proposed to present to the de-
nunciation ..
of this great and monstrous evil, he fully un- • •
derstood the anxiety of Irish members, who came to them
and said, that in looking at a phenomenon so portentous -
as Fenianism they must not be content with that view of
it which had exclusive reference to the means of repres-
It
was invariably true in the case of those great
masses—in those movements of great masses—not that the
guilt lies all on side and the reason or the right all on •..
the other—but that mixed motives and considerations
are to be found on both. These representatives of
Irish constituencies had not shrunk at all from stat-
ing in that debate the various subjects to which they
thought it was right that the attention of Parliament
should be called, with a view to the improvement of the
state of Ireland. They had heard of the question of 'the
University, of the question of National Education, of the
question of the Established Church, of the question of the
Reclamation of Waste Lands, of the question of the Taxa-
tion of Absentees, of the question of Tenant Right, of the
question of loans, and railways, and in general of measures
for promoting the material prosperity of Ireland. The _
noble lord the member for Cockermouth had given a fair
description of those subjects taken in the mass. He said
they were fair subjects for Parliamentary consideration.
(Hear, hear.) He supposed he did not mean to pledge
himself by any means to the practicable character of each
and all of those subjects. It would be impossible for Par-
liament to make any promise about them. Vague promises,
general, comprehensive, and sweeping—promises of desire
and intentions to do that which, taken at best, was in-
volved in infinite difficulty of detail, especially when ad-
dressed to a people whose minds are still sore with the
recollection of former wrongs, attracted very little confi-
dence, and commanded very little comfort. Now what
he said was this—there were some of those questions that
were already in motion, and others which might be brought
under the attention of the house. Let the Government be
judged on each of those questions by the spirit in which
they could deal with them. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that
the house would avoid giving forth to the world vague
promises, capable of misapprehension. He also hoped that
as each subiect connected with the condition of Ireland
came before them they would be prepared to treat it,
if specifically Irish, with a special view to Irish ob-
jects, interests, and feelings. He said this, both in refe-
rence to questions lying in the sphere of education and
religion, to political and social arrangements, and to the
material prosperity of the country. And he frankly owned
that he clung to the hope, though he was quite unable to
prescribe the extent or manner in which Parliament might
be able to realise that hope—the hope that it might be pos-
sible for England to do hereafter what she had often done
before—perhaps with the advantage of increased experience
—to promote the development of that material prosperity.
It was in that way they could best hope to attain the object
wall described by the hon. and learned member for Cork
(Mr, Maguire), who said that it was the duty of the Go-
vernment to destroy the trade of the conspirator. It was
their duty to restrain his acts, sternly to denounce them in
character and tendency, but at the same time to destroy
the trade of the conspirator, by pursuing that system of
practical legislation by which so much progress had been
made in rallying on the side of the Government all the best
sentiments and feelings of the country, and by which they
hoped alike to contribute to its welfare, and to the credit,
honour, and dignity of the British empire. (Cheers.)
The O'DONOGHUE said that he would, with the per-
mission of the house, withdraw his amendment, and move
that the words he had proposed be added to the paragraph in
the Address, instead of being substituted for it.
The amendment was accordingly withdrawn.
The O'DONOGHUE then moved the addition of the
words to the existing paragraph in the Address.
The house then divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority against —321
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON moved the adjournment of the
debate. As yet only two subjects had been touched upon in
the Address, and there was yet another matter—that of
Reform—to which no allusion had been made, and therefore
he moved that the debate be adjourned until to-morrow
(this day).
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said—l am
sure it is anything but the wish of the Government to stop
discussion upon any of the various points to which allusion
has been made in the Queen's Speech. As the right hon.
baronet has observed, up to the present time two subjects
only have been touched upon ; but I wish to point out that
we stand in rather a peculiar position. My right hon. friend
the Home Secretary has given notice of a bill upon the
subject of the cattle plague on Friday next ; and an hon.
gentleman opposite (Mr. Hunt) has likewise given notice
of his intention to raise the same subject on that day. Now
it would be exceedingly undesirable to run any risk of the
postponement of that subject—(cries of Hear, hear)—and
as the report on the Address must be brought up the day
after the debate upon it is concluded, we should have no
security that the cattle plague subject could be brought on
on Monday if the debate is adjourned till to-morrow. I
would therefore suggest that the Address should be agreed
to to-night, and upon the report being brought up to-mor-
row the right hon. baronet can have the same opportunity
of addressing any observations he may wish to the house.
Sir J. PAKINGTON—Under these circumstances just
stated I will accede to the request of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer.
The Address was then agreed to.
NATIONAL DEBTS ACT.
In committee of the whole house, upon the motion of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, resolutions were agreed to
upon which to found two bills to extinguish two very small
funds in connection with the national debt, and leave was
given to bring in the bills.
SAVINGS BANKS AND POST-OFFICE SAVINGS
BANKS ACTS.
In committee of the whole house, upon the motion of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, a resolution was agreed to
upon which to found a bill to alter the acts relating to
savings banks and Post-office savings banks, and leave was
afterwards given to bring in the bill.
EXCHEQUER AND AUDIT DEPARTMENTS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER obtained
leave to bring in a bill to consolidate the duties of the Ex-
chequer and Audit Departments, to regulate the receipt,
custody, and issue of public moneys, and provide for the
accounts thereof.
RAILWAY TRAVELLING IN IRELAND.
Sir COLMAN O'LOGIILEN obtained leave to bringral.lva'yn
a bill to further secure to the public the means of
travelling in Ireland.
The house adjourned at 25 minutes to one o'clock.

tA

sion.

TREATY OF COMMERCE BETWEEN ENGLAND AND
AusTria.—The full text of the Treaty of Commerce be-
tween Great Britain and Austria, with the final protocol,
signed at Vienna, Dec. 16, 1365, have been laid before
Parliament. The stipulations of the Treaty in their main
points have been sufficiently known and discussed to ren-
der their repetition unnecessary. In the final protocol, her
Majesty undertakes to recommend to Parliament the abo-
lition of the duties payable upon imported wood and tim-
ber, and the reduction of the duties on wine in bottle to
the same rate as wine in wood; on the other hand, the
Austrian Government will reduce the „export duty
(after July, 1866), and also on salted herrings imported. °l
rags