The Sun.
London, England, 1835-07-14 00:00:00

CROWN OFFICE, JULY 14.

MEMBER RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS PRESENT PARLIAMENT.
BOROUGH OF OLDHAM.—Joha Frederick Lees, Esq., in the
room of William Cobbett, Esq. deceased.

WHITEHALL, JULY 13, 1835.
The King has been pleased to direct letters patent to be passed
under the Great Seal, appointing Charles Hanbury Tracey Esq. :
the Honourable Sir Edward Cust, Knt. ; the Honourable Thomas
Liddell; George Vivian, Esq. ; and Samuel Rogers, Esq. Commis-
sioners for examining and reporting upon the plans which may be
offered by the competitors for the rebuilding the Houses of Par-
liament.

Sir R. Smirke, that the upper part of St. Stephens Chapel
could not be restored, but that the lower part might.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE assured the House, o'nd
through them the public, that if it was at all possible to save
St. Stephen's Chapel, with any regard to safety, it woi.e.d be
done.

A further conversation upon the subject ensued, but in so
low a tone as to be inaudible in the gallery.
LOAN SOCIETIES BILL.

The Duke of RICHMOND moved the committal of the
above Bill.

The Marquis of SALISBURY did not think that the Bill
went far enough. He hoped the Noble Duke would consent
that the Limit should extend to 251., or at all events to 201.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND said, if the House thought
20/. should be the sum to be sent by societies of this kind, he
would not oppose the amendment, but he would prefer the
Bill as it at present stood.

After a few words between the two Noble Lords "
was struck out, and " 15/." inserted.
The Bill passed through the Committee without further
amendment, and the report ordered to be received to-morrow.
The Marquis of DEVONSHIRE presented a petition from
the surgeons of Reading, and other places in Berks, complain-
ing ot the smallness of their remuneration under the New
Poor Law Bill.

The Marquis of WESTMEATH complained of the non-
attendance of Peers upon Committees of Privileges, by which
suitors were put to great expense and inconvenience. If 7)
one else took up the matter he would do so
or der
to have a rota made out.

Lord BROUGHAM was glad the subject had been men-
tioned, and would be glad to see such a rota as that proposed
carried into effect_ without it the business could not be well
done, and the parties frequenrly put to great extra expense. •
Lord FARNHAM sail perhaps those who heard the first
part of the case might not hear the end of it ; and then Lords
who had not heard one single word of the evidence, might de-
cide upon the case. That would bo the effect of a rota. It
was arranged that the question of the rota should come on,
to-Morrow.

THE UNIVERSITY OATHS ABOLITION BILL.
The Earl of RADNOR moved the order of the day for the
second reading of the above Bill. The Noble Earl went at
very considerable length into the details of the Bill, and was
LEFT SPEAKING.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at 5 o'clock.
Mr. D. W. R.OOHE presented a petition from the mer-
chants and ship-owners of Limerick, praying for no alteration
in the duties on Baltic timber.
SirJOHN WROTTESLEY presented a petition from the
retail Brewers of Staffordshire against the Excise Duties.
Admiral AD AMS presented a petition from Alloa, against
any alteration in the Timber Duties.
An Host. MEMBER presented a petition signed by upwards
of 400 freemen of Maidstone, praying for the protection of
their corporate rights.
POST-OFFICE COMMISSION.
Lord LOWTHER hoped the House would indulge him
for a few moments on a matter personal to himself. It would
be seen by the publications of that day, that there was last
night in another place, if he might so term it, a field-day
of Post. Masters General.—( Hear: hear, and laughter. )
He would say in the outset, that serving as a Commis-
missioner, his time had been limited to about two months,
and during that time he attempted, as well as his abilities and
his occupations in that House would allow him, to serve his
Majesty honestly, and to make such suggestionS in an im-
portant office in the State as he had thought reason-
able and practicable. There seemed to have existed a dif-
ference of opinion between himself and' his Noble Colleague,
about what he had called inaccuracy of dispatch, but what
he (Lord Loather) had termed something very nearly ap-
proaching to obstruction. He had no difficulty in stating the
circumstances on which he (Lord Lowther) had grounded his
opinion, and he did not wish to retract the term he had ap-
plied of "obstinacy;" and in reference to this, he would refer
to the Report of the Finance Committee of 1797 with
respect to a former inquiry into the Post' Office: - -There
was, in his (Lord Lowther's) opinion, but a slight difference
between obstacles and obstinacy, although his late-Colleague
had disagreed with him as to the term. He was serprised—
although he ought not to be surprised at any thing that had
taken place—(A laugh)—that his Noble Colleague' lied
forgotten that he had made something of a similar com-
plaint in the Report made by them to the Treasury at
the conclusion of their labours.—(Hear, hear.) At that
period there were several questions before them, and he (Lord
L.) was particularly anxious that inquiries should be made
into the management of steam-boats and foreign posts. He
would allude more particularly to that presently; but he
would now read the concluding sentence upon Price Cur-
rents. He must observe, that there were two or three
subjects on which they had summoned inquiry, but had not ob-
tained sufficient information to make a Report. But in allu-
ding on this subject to what the Noble Lord had said of his
never having heard anything but alacrity of dispatch in that
department, he would speak of the concluding sentence of
that Report. He (Lord L.) had stated in it that he had found
that the Commissioners appointed by the Lords of the -Teea-
sury in August last; had furnished the Postmaster-General
with a statement of several recommendations of the Commis-
sioners of Revenue Enquiry, and requested him to prepare a
paper, shewing in what cases either these recommendations had
been carried into effect, or the reasons which had prevented
their being adopted:-( Hear.) The Commissioners appointed
by. the present Government had asked for this paper, which was
not ready at the time their labours had closed, and it was again
applied for as soon as the Commission was appointed to con-
tinue. the inquiry ; therefore, he, (Lord L.), conceived that
if he complained of any unwillingness or obstinacy, he had
some right to do so. There was a paper asked
for in August last which had been prepared by an
intelligent Gentleman, Colonel Yorke, who was now private
secretary to Earl Mulgrave. He (Lord L.) understood
that the Noble Postmaster-General • went to the Post-Office
to examine what accounts the Commissioners had called for,
and he maintained tliat there was an unwillingness on the part
of the Post-Office to make the Returns, and they had given no
explanation why. that paper was not furnished, although it
would have very much facilitated the inquiry had they done
so. That paper (as we understood the Noble Lord), would
have been putting the Post-office on its trial with respect to
the few recommendations that had not been carried into effect.
He, as well as others, conceived that the public were great
losers by the system, and an account was asked for, but it was
said that it was impossible to give it. That did not satisfy
Hear.) He applied to the Admiralty office, and sent
to Mr. Dawson, who in three days sent him a most precise ac-
count..—(llear, hear, hear.) He was once a Lord of
'the Admiralty himself, and knew the accuracy with which
the accounts were there kept, and he believed the Hon.
Member for Cumberland-had improved that system. He went
through the aceounta for one year, and made an abstract.
Inquiry was also made as to the number of letters sent
between London and Calais, and the answer was 134,0001b5.
weight went to Calais in the course of a year, but the
answer froth Calais was, that there had been five millions of
franks. He would ask how the Commissioners. could make
this intelligible. He would wish to know whether the re-
venue was a winner or a loser by this system.—(llear,
hear.) The Postmaster of Jamaica was stated to have
had an income of 400/. a year, with 160/. allowance.
Colonel Yorke was dissatisfied with this, and a clerk in
the Secretary's Office, reluctantly stated that the office was
worth 1,6001. a year. He had not the advantages which were
enjoyed by Lord Maryborough, but he should wish to know
how this 1,600/. a year, and the income of 4001., wero to be
reconciled. It was said, the difference was made up by the
sale of newspapers. In the course of inquiry also it was dis-
covered that same money was made by electioneering services.
—( Hear.) These were some of the facts which he could state,
and though he could mention others, he thought he had
stated enough to show that he was justified in following out
the recommendations of the Commissioners of Inquiry of
1797.--( Hear.) He had been selected upon different occa-
sions to make inquiries into the Excise-offiee, the Tax-
office, and the old Exchequer.—(Loud cheers.) And
the first step to the abolition of that antiquated office
had been recommended by the Report of himself, and
his Colleague the Honourable Member for the county
of Monmouth. The Exchequer, the Tax-office, and the
Metropolis Roads Committees had received every facility,
and he could assure the House that the difficulties in
the Exchequer did not exceed those which they had
found in the inquiries into the Post-office. He would ask,
and he wished the Noble Lord was there to say, what papers
were refused from the Post-office that they did not show alacrity
in producing ? There was no paper or witness called for that
was not before those who made the inquiry. There were
several other minor points; such as that papers were sent un-
signed, which he would not then notiee—( Hear, hear, hear)
—the statement he bad made, however, was a general
statement he had made of the heads of the difficulties he had met
with. He had stated them candidly. If he had made any rash
assertion he hoped the House would excuse him. He was not
in the habit of taking part in the debates in that House,
but lie would venture to say that no one would be more
zealous for the correct 'despatch of business in all public
offices.—( Loud cheers.) He appealed to the House whether
he had made any rash assertion, and he was ready to bear
any obloquy that might arise from it.—( Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord concluded by moving for a Return
of Papers from the office of PostmasterfGeneral, stating
which of the recommendations of the Commissioners had
been carried into effect, and which had not, with the rea-
sons for not carrying them into effect.
Mr. VERNON SMITH did not Ilse to object to the re-
turn moved for ; on the contrary, he was quite willing to agree
to it. He rose simply for the purpose of moving for a copy of
the report of the evidence sent into the Treasury by the Com-
missioners of the Post Office Inquiry.
Mr. HUME considered that the House was under an ob-
ligation to the Noble Lord for the manner in which he had
brought forward this subject—for the active part he had
taken in it—the time he had devoted to it, and the manner he
had inquired into this department, made him a most important
witness. The House was, therefore, much obliged to him,
for coming forward to obtain the fullest information possible, as
to a department which required so essentially to be
ed. Ile was only sorry that the Noble
r Ord had not
had justice done him for his lahburs
of Exchequer—for he ktio7; reforming the Court
been thrown in jut for the obstacles which had
way
ten vaa- that Court would have been reformed
s ago by the efforts of the Noble Lord. For his own
part lie believed that the statements of the Noble Lord were
consistent with his knowledge of the facts, and that the do-
cuments he moved for would substantiate them.

Mr. WALLACE merely rose to vindicate himself. He
would not trespass on the time of the House, as he was too
sensible of their kininess the other night to forget it. He

v~~
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adhered to every word he then uttered, and he Was 14i,ared t p:ove eveay assertion he had made, if a Committ6 were granted.
With regard to what had taken place in another House, and
what had been said by a noble person there? he (Mr. W.)
had merely to refer to his speech regarding Lim on the
6th of August last, as given in the Mirror, of Parliament
and then to ask that Noble Lord whether, 'after that, he
had not a right to refer to what he had stated._(hlear,
hear.) With respect to the statements that , had bees
made by the several Post-masters who addreised another
assembly, he was now prepared to say that, to his mini,
these remarks were perfectly conclusive of their .ignorsnee
of the duties they had to perform,—( Hear, 'hear, hear.)
Two Noble Lords had said that they' liad' frequently
been obliged to differ from Sir Francis Preeling, and
.yet they lauded him to the skies, called him a most Hu.
pertain man, and one well acquainted with the 'duties a
their office.-_( Hear.) There must have been a [treat
deal of complacency in the composition of those Noble
Lords, when they felt called upon to differ from him
at one moment and laud him at the next. lie (Mr. Wal-
lace) bad stated at the table that a felony had bee.
committed, by letters being opened in Scotland ; and Ire
had a Return now in his hand, which sho''..4 this extrPtirdi-
nary state of things, that those !Otero
purpose of :lad been opened for tho
founding prosr-..tons upon them. He had
moved for a retura-
. the number of informations that
.i
hhaadd
.bue_e.n set on foot upon those latters ; the return
- .„!en mule, but no information whatever was
given by those returns. A very large number of informations
had been brought against a stationer's establishment in Glas-
,, 'ow, of the name of Reid. Those informations had been
lodged with his solicitor ; and that solicitor, in his letter
stated that the letter had been put into the office on the 15th
of February,. 1833, which the letter itself showed that it was
not written at such a date as to be put in then. The
return laid on the table stated, that the information had
been lodged upon the 18th day of February, whereas he
held in his hand the subpoena to bring those persons
to justice in the court of Exchequer, dated the 4th of
February, eleven days previous to the time the letter was al-
leged to have beer: written, and 14 days according to the return
He would verify in any place every statement he had made.
One of the Noble Lords had stated that he had an opportunity
of going to the Post-office yesterday to ascertain how far
he would refute the statements that. he (Mr. W.) and
the Noble Lord opposite had made.-- ( Hear, hear.) In
consequence of that he had thought it his duty to address
letter to the PoStmaster-General, requestinc, that he might
be permitted to repair to the post office, and then have the
same advantage as Lord Mars borough had had. In answer
to' that letter he had received one from the Postmaster-
General containing a polite refusal.—(Laughter.)
(LEFT SPEAKING.)