The Sun.
London, England, 1803-12-10 00:00:00

meat Of ,the present,War ; and he trusted that it
would not appear that Ministers had negleCted the
Force of the Country, .Bur exclusive of these Arms,
the Commiitee would understand, there is now a
Depot of Arms to a very great amount, ready to
be issued as occasion might arise. This was a suf.
ficient statement for the presentin this particular.
gotte through the Army, he should
proceed to that of the Navy ; and here again he
felt great satisfatlion in contemplating our strength,
that if, the Enemy should attempt to invade us—
'which he thought he would,-for two reasons : first,
that he was too much pledged to it to pass it over ;
secondly, because he had no tenderness at all for
those whom lie Might order on such a desperate
expedition—we were well prepared in that respea
also. We had two species of Naval Force, that
of the regular Navy, and that of a Flotilla
made for the exigency of the present time. Ile
should not go iron ihe particulars of the Ships, the
distribution of which was made by' the Noble
1,-,rd now, so much, to his '.own honour, and
to the public advantage, at 'the head Of the Admi.
raltY. We had now of regular Ships of all &scrip.
tiona no•less than 469 great and small, and a Flo.
.tilla of tic' a. -So that we hid ail not less than
1300 Ships for the protraion of the Coasts of this
Country, and ready-to meet the Enemy. So that
great as ,the means of. the Enemy might be, and
desperate as might be his Charaaer, this was force
enoiighrio give' us the consciousness of
,security ;
not that:kve were to relax, but to continue our ex.
ertons. His 'Lordship added, that by the spirited
exertions Of the East India Company, which no
body of men in the world ever yet equalled, there
were fitted up by them not less than 20 Ships, Fri.
g.+tes, slid Sloops, set as to render the Thames per.
te4l3'• secure. Ile 'paid' 4.. Very handsome compli.
'ient to another very respeetable body, namely,
the Trinity.fltime, whose exertions had been very
great. Having' expatiated on these topics for a
considerable time, his Lordship concluded with ob.
serving, that by our wealth, our greatness, our
prosperity, our freedom, and our happiness,
we' excited the envy, the malice, and the ha.
ire& of our present Foe,. whose People were the
reverse of ours ; and while they continued so they
would envy us and seek every opportunity to di.
miniSh our greatness, for which reason, even if we
should have peace, 'we must continue to be to a
great extent a Military as well as a Commercial
Nltion, fir in the present condition of time world,
and the condition in which it was likely to continue
a long 'while, the one of these must be made to pm.
teel, the other.

•
Mr. FOXltmented very much to hear the last
sentiment uttered by the Noble Lord, by which we
were taught to expeet hardly any advantages from
Peace when we should obtain it. He then proceed.
rd to take notice of the matter now before the
House, upon the ground that Mr. WINDHAM had
done, InAintaining that the idea of only looking at
the future without considering the past, .was very
imperfect ; for .that no man could form any thing
like a eorred opinion of the future without looking
at, the past ; and be contended that Ministers had
bY means followed the plan that ought to have
beerfatlopted. r He censured the unintelligible Ads
ofr ParliAnient had passed on the subject of the

VoJuoteers and the Army of Reserve, whichnow re.
eppeeil ;mother in order to he, intelligible., He ditaP.,
iltitsty,ed of the Ananner, in which. the Volunteers .140
been raised and !rained. tic .thottglit, as highly of
their, coutage.oany man, but they. hittl,heen.neiiher
r Our ,trOraed as he could have wished., A$ mere
Vplttotoote,
,they were much too few, sod .as an
Army they were a.great deal too numerous. They
otsght-tohave ,been, oloathed ocher men, and
'triune,!. in that which-was most useful in the b.our of
. instead, of that cat of parade which made
them .resemble soldiers, which they could not be,
oqr dial. he wish them to he so, for that was nut his
itiga„ fie_did not want thernto_ march from one
piocc too, another toioin the Regulars, but merely to
be in ,villages in their, own .neighbourhood,
and considered more in the nature of an Armed
Paasentry ready. by natural courage and strength,
together :with some useful knosidedge
.of direct •and
immediate fighting, on the sudden unser, rather than
that.; of -outward, bhe w, He,
.quoted the opinion
of Marshal Fiaxe,..who had said, that much
.of the
military discipline. ,of firing by Companies from;
centre to flanki,.,and many other, „thingelaaght to-
Soldiers, was uselesS,, became in battle it was im.pea tira'tleo •
He-took notice of what an Hon. Friend
eif.lsis,( Mr. Sti EK IMO NA ;44 of him' ott a former
occasion, (at Goildhall, on the Lord Mayor's Day),
that Ftiend of his, had, from partiality, .thought he
deal always been what he ought to be, and therefore
had thought that he was a Volunteer. Hecertainly
waioottc nor would he ever he, a Volunteer,. nut
because he did not wish it,
.but for 'a-better reason
with him ,than any-,lvishes-7namely, because he
knew he was unfit to be a Volunteer : be could, 'cot
do those duties which that-character, to be good'
for any thing, required,. no;, Could behelp think,
ing that: TtOble Lords,: who were Members of ,Ad.
inmisltalion.(Lord4lAwisasauaY and Lord Csks-
TLEstaAort) falling-into the ranks were liable Q.
some observation. It was said that they did this .„
by may of example t. shoUld the French invade us,.
the only example they would, skew would be the
example of desertion :.ant that he meant to dispute
their courage, but as Ministers, they would, be
presumed, think themselves .bound to reserve their
Station, lind therefore they must desert their ranks,
old this excuse on account,. of, business would lead
other
,persons to plead- the lame excuse ;. in truth
thiot,,,,i," mere thew riga!, vain, ostentatious, parade
of :courage that was of no value, nor could he think
that this was the only time the People of England,
had the
.courage to resist the Invasion of the French;
they had always rione.sn.;, and they always would,
he-was, confident of it. Having touched on these and
varimis,othrr points, in which he censured Ministers
severely, he took occasion to observe, there was one
thing which it was impostiblie to estimate too.highly,
for sr otkitit be the admiration of the world, and would
be a lasting glory to Qreat Britain, as well as
present security against ilanger,—he meant the
manaer in which the Fleet under. the command of
Admiral CottuwAt.t.ts had been able to stay off
Brest in, the late severe weather and. heavy Wes.
It was impossible to think too much: of this: it
was our security, and the terror of our Fce.—
Hay jug past oust a vast variety of other topics, bp

took occasion to notice the manner in which the prof,.fered services of the Prince of Wale's had been rcied,
ed. lie had no scruple in saying, that the Crown was
injudiciowdy advised upon that subjea. He thought
the sentiments expressed on that occasion wereworthy
of an illustrious Prince of the Reuse of Brunswick,
and Heir Apparent of the Throne of Great Britain;
who did not wish, like an Eastern Monarch, to
consider his pers•„n too sacred to be exposed He
wished to share the dangers, in order to shew him-
self worthy of the highest honour, as well as the
best affeftion, of his at present fellow-subjeds, him-
self the first subjeffin the Realm. He then censor.
ed the Government of Ireland for the manner in
which the Commander in Chief there had been re.
moved. It was true he intimated a wish to that
effett, but that was not until he understood from
the Government that they wished him to retire.
The natural inference from that was, that they
thought he had not done his duty ; this was
just before the 23d of July, when the Rebellion
broke out. it wts true, that when that Commander
was appointed to a command immediately on his ar.
rival here, and therefore Government here must
have a good opinion of him; but still this was
proper in Ireland. He charged Government with
concealing what they knew of the preparation for
the Insurredion in Ireland, for the mere chance of
its not happening, and for keeping up the deception
played ofF on the Public by the assurances which
they had repeatedly given of the tranquillity of that
Country. The only thing that could excuse Go.
vernment on that head was ignorance, for if they
knew it was intended at the time, and in the man.
tier it happened, they were accomplices in the mur.
der of Lord Kilwarden.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
answered Mr. Fox, and took up the same ground as
Lord CASTLE a a Acta. With respett to the case of His
Royal Highn'esa the Prince of Wales, he observed,
that he declined entering on any discusiOn'of 'that
subjed when mentioned in the House last Session,
nor had 'he repented of his condutt on that occa.
sion, neither should he ever say any more upon it,
until be should be either commanded by the KING,
or &reeled by that House to do so. He disclaimed
any idea of offering the least offence to General
Fox, who was the Commander in Chief in Ireland,
on the subject of his return into this Country.
Spoke highly of that gallant Officer, and also of the.
Government of Ireland, which had done so much to
conciliate the People of Ireland, and had more of
their affalion than any other Administration.
Mr..."Teeretary YORKE, in the course of one of
his explanations, entered into 'some details respea.
ing the InsurreCtion which took place in Dublin on
the z ad of July. He adverted to some contradic-
tory information which had been received at the
Castle, relative. to the intended rising, one or two
days previous to the aid ; however, on the z3d, '
positive intelligence was received by the Irish Go..
vernment of an intended rising, of some description
on that day. These tidings were received by the
Lord Lieutenant, at the Lodge in the Phoenix Park ;
they were immediately communicated to the COM.
mander in Chief. The Lord Lieutenant and that
Officer went immediately to the Castle. When
they arrived there, the •subordinate Officers of the
Civil Government, were ordered to communicate.
the particulars of the intelligence they had received.
It was certainly known that some rising would take
placeatbat night, G ivernment were nut at that
' time apprised of the (461 ; they knew that num..,
beta had {locked into the Capital from different parts.
of the neighbouring country, particularly the County
of Kildare, The intelligence, however, way such,.
as that no combined system of rising was to he age..
prehen‘lo. The state of the Garrison of Dublina
was most reapetlahle at the time, consisting of four,
Regiment:l of Infantry, of boo men each, and the
16th,Regiment of Dragoons, consisting of Sao
men, beaidesaa considerable proportion of Artillery.
He knew alte,City of Dublin nearly as well as this
TOWD—he had the honour once of serving in Gar,
rison there ; and he wouq •ask. any Military Man,
who knew that City, and the respective situations
oldie Barracks, the Castle, &c. whether it would not
have been very easy to have warned the Officers of the
different regiments of the apprehended Insurrection,
or to have ordered them to have terrain precau.
tinny adopted ; suppose, to have. dirdted them, that
after the evening parade, care ahould be taken that
the men should nut straggle about, and that they
should, remain accoutred : such precautionary Mea:
sures he thought lay with the Commander of the
Forces, and not with the Lord Lieutenant. A
great deal bad been said respeCting ammunition ; if
any deficiency obtained therein, was it the fat* of
the Civil Government ?. He would ask any man,
if it would he. considered as culpable
,in the Civil
Government of this city, if the Military ,were in
want of ammunition ? It was certainly the duty of
the Commandant of the place to order those things,
and to take care that proper ammunition was dis-
tributed ; it was no part of the duty of the Lord
Lieutenant : he thought it his duty to state those
. facts.
,The very Police of Dublin had been ap.
prized,of the intended ri,ing, and the Magistrates
of that part of the Civil Government gave di.
rediuns to consevence to their subordinate 64.,
cers, and some of these had actually repaired to.
the spot. These fads were substantiated in evi.
dence. He thought it inconsistent with the usual
magnanimity of the Hon. Gentleman, at such a
late hour of the night, anti at the hitter end of a
long Debate, to Make such an atta:k upon the Irish
Government. The unhappy fate of Lord Krt..
WARDEN was owing to accidents equally extra..
ordinary and unlucky; that he should have proceeded
to the very street where the Rebels were assembled
• in the greatest force, and get entangled
,with them
at the very moment they wete repulsed and re.
treating, was a must deplotalble accident indeed.—
He must reprobate the' language uttered by the
Honourable Gentleman, that the Government
the
of
Ireland ro,y be considered as accomplices in
murder of Lord KILWARDEN: the very introduc-
tion of such language into his speech was repre.
hensible ; as well might he (Mr. Secretary YORKE),
say that the Commander in Chief was an accont.
plier in the murder of Colonel IhowN, because he
lived within the distance of half a mile of his own
residence, and did not duly apprize him of what
was going forward. . With respea, to the recall of
the gallant Officer in question, much had been said ;
he believed, that; he Kati resigned, In w 43.1 he WAS

. ,
about to say, he meant not to tram any cllame or
suspicion against his conclutt : but after the day in
question, a coolness certainly cook place between
the Lord Lieutenant and the Commander in Chief

he•was not aware how this originated. Why had
the -Hon. General absented himself from the Castle
for a considerable time after? Was it proper ? W 45,
it possible that the Government of Ireland could be
carried on under such circumstances, when the su.
preme heads of the Civil and Military Department.
were on•such a footing ? Certainly not, It be_.
came. the duty. of the King's Government to with-
draw one :or,thellther of them. He felt 'very much
on the subjed of the gallant General, and he %void
by no means tiVe troubled the Committee with
what he had advanced, were it not for the unpra.
yoked attack which had been made. •

Mr. FOX in reply observed, that the charaCter
of a Commanding Officer was always of the greatest
importance, as it constituted a material part of the
strength of an limy. He gave the Right Hon.
Gentleman full credit for his feelings with resped -
to the General Officer in question, and as sincerely
was that Officer aduated by good will towards the
present Lord Lieutenant. With respeil however to
the topic under discussion, it was said, that after
the unfortiinate affair of the z3d, a coolness took
place between the heads of the Government for
his part, he knew enough of the charader of one of
the parties to know, that it could only originate in
the convidion that his conduit bad been mention:A
in a way in which it ought not to have been.
—When an inquiry should be made, and the
Papers produced; it would appear how far the
Right Hon. • Gentleman was or was not war_
ranted in what he had advanced that Night.—lie
ridiculed the idea of the information being held
back, leit the City of Dublin Should be alarmed.—
He had no objection to repeat his Opinion that the
Castle was surprised—if not, that the Government
were Accomplices, &c. With tespea to the idea
of its having been the Commander in Chief's duty
to apprise Colonel BROWN, the. real qaestion
was, and indeed throughout the whole affair,
" Had the Commander in Chief sufficient grounds
fur giving such Information > The real flit
would turn out, on inquiry, to be, that the Com-
Mander in Chief had been even more in the way of
precaution, than was expetted by the Loan LIEU-
TENANT, and_ fartlur perhaps. Thar the latter
should have written: to the former, that his doing
so much was in consequence of his having
received more intelligence than hinfself ; and he
must say, the more' detly theJlffair was investi.
gated, the more .satisfaition would it yield to the
General Officer in question, and the more corn.
pletely would his ChataCter and Conduct on the
occasion be vindicated.

BERKhL EY expressed his wish to know from
the Right 'fon, Gentleman, whether or not the Lord Lieu-
tenant had, on the 2.3i1 or July, corninitnic:ited to the Corn-,
minder in Chief the likelihood there Wai. Of a Rising on that
day ?.
Sterriaty YORKE, in answer. to • the Hot). Admiral,
repeated what he had
.stated or the parties, having gonetoge
titer to the Cast le, where the subordinate Civil Officers Stated,
the information they had received, which gave every reasen
to exped that a Rising would take place on that day.
Mr. CORRY entered into a detailed statement of the best
information he had been able to coiled of. the Instirtedion
which had taken place in Dublin ; this, in subitance; Was in
a great degree similarto the statement given by the Secretary
of State. He consideoxl the event in itself as trifling bed
contemptible, but it was to be regarded as a proper objea'Of
precautionary measures on the part of Government.; inn-
much as it was a symptont.of a widely extended Conspiracy,
which they to"s certain degree kept 'down by the vigorous
and enereetic measures of Government, but was by no means
entirely crushed.
,•
Lord De BLAQUIERE delivered his sentiments rather in
detail. He considered the besiness of the 231 of July as a"
most daring and atrocious attempt; and that the Castle must'
have been completely surprised on thooccasion. •Hp thvuOt,„
noon the whole, the affair merited the most serious
which would sheW that gross and flagrant blanie was Imput-
able somewhere.

• •
Alr. 1.1 II ICI IINS 0 N shortly delivered his. sentiments.
Adverting to a part of the conduct of Covenunent, he ob-
served, it was'a charaaeristic maxlin of our Constitution,
that the King could do no wrong, but a heavy responsibility
attached upon Ministers.
Mr. Pirr 'and the Cns.neettoa of the EXCiIIIQI; k
spedively spoke in explanation, relative to some points which
had been discussed in an early part of the Debate.
Mr. WlNDriAMandtheCunuesi.toatfthe Excluslusa
also spoke severally in explanation. • •••
Mr. Pit'z in further explanation observed,. that a suffi-
cient number of.field Officers, for the purposes he had men-
tioned with respect to Volunteer Corps, could without ditti.
culty be obtained. He did not 'Mean persons who should
hold that, rank at .the time of- their coming to those Corps
there were a number of persons of the rank.of,Csiptaius. of
a certain numberof vats standing, who would be fully com-
petent to the purpose, and would make very respectable
field Officers.
The questions were then put .on thivtliffirent Resolutions
moved by the Secretary at War, as as those moved by
the Secretary of the Ordnance Department, ail of which
were severally agreed to by the Coniututee..
The [reuse then resumed, and the Report was ordered to
be received on Monday:
The Committee of Ways and Means. and the other Orders
of the Day, were then deterred till. Monday, and at three
o'clock the House adjourned to' the usual hour this. Jay.

T E SUN.

SOLIS. QUIS nscamatroilaULl •VDILT

lONOON, DECEMBER xo, .18a3.

14AsT night a, Conversation took place in the
House of. Commons, in Committee on the Army
Estimates, in which much observation was made
resPeeling.tk Volunteer System, that will be read
with great interest by the whole Country, To:
that essential part of the National Force, it must
be 'particularly gratifying to perceive, that Mr. PITT
has devoted his great talents to the objed of perfea-
int the System, and has suggestea ideas upon which
Ministers will no doubt deem it expedient imme.
tiiately' to. found 'an 'Eippatory Aa, particularly
with respett to Exemptions, upon which so much
doubt and uncertainty seem at present to prevail.
This necessary Bill we apiteeltend, be passed
before the Cltrismas recess.

A certain delicate topic, which was expelled to
engross much of the -attention of the Committee,
and respelling which much public expectation yes.
terday prevailed, was only very slightly touched
upon by Mr.. Fox: We must confess we are rather
pleased at this, for we sit no good that could arise
from a discussion of esubj ell relating so immediately

to the First Personages in the Country. We exceed•
ingly regret that s much publicity should have been •
given, by the treachery or indiscreet zeal of pre.
tended friends, to a Correspondence which never.
could have keen meant fur the public eye.

From the statement last night of Mr. Secrets!?
Volt:tit, it appears that the Volunteers of Great .
Britain amount to 3+ t ,678 Rank and File, anti
17,000 Officers, The ad' pti on of Mr.yiTT's ideas
will, no doubt, render this a highly useful and tea