The Sun.
London, England, 1832-06-29 00:00:00

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was impossible that any words could convey more definite
ideas than were expressed in those terms of the treaty of
Vienna, which were now said to be vague and indefinite
The words of the treaty were, that the duchy of Warsay.,
should be united to Russia by its constitution—(Hear)—
and that his Imperial Majesty the Emperor of Russia re-
served to himself to give to Poland a representative legisla-
ture and a distinct Administration; Austria and Prussia
also undertaking to give free institutions to the Polish pro.
vinces which were to remain annexed to those Crowns.
The Emperor of Austria did give to the provinces under
his dominion something approaching to a
_Representative
Government; and the King of Prussia also gave the Po.
lish provinces subject to him some political privileges.
But the Emperor of Russia bad not only not observed the
compact with Poland, but he had deprived that people
of the free institutions which they had always pos
sessed before the formation of the treaty of Vienna,
and had subjected them to his absolute power.—(Hear,
hear.) The papers for which he (Mr. Fergusson) was about
to move, related to the conduct of the Emperor Nicholas
towards the kingdom of Poland. It was stipulated in
the first article of the treaty of Vienna, that Poland was
to be hound to Russia by her Constitution ; from which it
was clear that Poland was to be as independent of Russia
as Scotland was of England, from the time that the two
countries were subject to the same Prince down to the
Union.—(Hear. hear.) The article also stipulated, that
his Imperial Majesty reserved to himself to give the Po-
lish provinces a Constitution, and that lie would continue
to them the enjoyment of a distinct administration. Now,
if those words had any meaning, it was that Poland was
given to the Emit e!.or of Russia on no other condition
than that she should have an independent Constitution and
a distinct Government.—(Hear, hear.) But still it was
said the stipulations of the articles were vaguely expressed
on this subject. Well, then, if they were vague, who
was more likely to construe them in the way most favour-
able to his own power than the Emperor Alexander? And
he showed what was his construction of the treaty, by
giving Poland a Constitution.—(Hear, hear.) [The Hon.
Member bete made some observations respecting the Ger-
man newspapers, but in so low a tone that their import
could not be collected in the gallery.] He was understood
to say, that tbrnughout the whole of the German Press,
one journal had offered any excuse for the con-

t of the Emperor Nicholas towards the Poles ; and the
only argument used by that Journal was, that as the Con-
stitution had been given to Poland by the magnanimity
11111 c
of the Emperor Alexander, his successor had a right to
revoke the gift. But he (Mr. Fergussan) thought that
the most violent advocate for the revocation of Constitu-
tions by Monarchs who had granted and sworn to them,
was that the Sovereign was not bound to a compact into
which he had been forced to enter by the rebellion of his
subjects, but that he was hound to observe a Constitution
when he had given it voluntarily.—(Hear, hear.) It was
said that this country could only act as a mediator be-
tween Poland and Russia ; but, on the contrary, he (Mr.
Ferguson) insisted that every state which was a party to
the contract, had not only a right to enforce it, but was
bound in honour to do so.—(Hear.) At the opening of
the Polish Diet, in 1818, the Emperor Nicholas said
that the rights and privileges of the Members were sanc-
tioned by the charter, which secured to Poland an honour-
! able rank amongst the nations of Europe.—(Hear, hear.)
The oath which was taken by the Polish authorities was
that they would be faithful to the King—(Hear)—and to
the charter ; (Hear, hear)—and the present Emperor
Nicholas, upon his accession to the Throne, swore, be-
fire God, that he would faithfully observe the charter, and
that he would do all in his power to maintain the Consti-
tution of Poland.—(Hear, bear.) It was only upon the
faith of that oath the people of Poland swore allegiance to
to him, together with the charter.—(Hear, hear.) But
there was not a single article of the Charter which had not
been operly, grossly, and shamelessly violated. One
article was, that the diet should be summoned at least
once in two years. But five years had been suffered to
elapse without any meeting of the Diet.—(Hear.) Another
article was, that the Polish people could be taxed only by
their representatives. But, for 15 years, taxes were im-
posed and levied, without a single vote of the Diet, and
without a budget having been proposed to that Assembly.
—(Hear, hear.) Another article of the Charter promised
personal liberty. But personal liberty had never been re-
spected for a moment. Membe. a of the Diet who ex-
pressed their opinions honestly were arrested and sent to
prison ; from which no man could hope to be liberated by
the issue of a fair trial. Indeed no man could be certain that
he would have any trial. The Charter said that no man
should be detained in prison more than three days without
being informed of the accusation upon which he had been
arrested, and enabled to offer before a legal tribunal any
proofs which he could produce of innocence, so that if no
crime could be by that time established against him, he
should be set at large. But an insurrection at St.
Petersburgh was made an excuse for the arrest of many
' Polish citizens, of whom several having been im-
prisorted—not fur three days, as the Charter required—
but for 18 months—(Hear, hear)—in violation of
the Charter, without an opportunity of proving their
' innocence—were at length liberated without a trial.
Many of those, as the House would easily believe, were
confined for imaginary crimes ; and many, he regretted to
say, their spirits broken and their fortitude great though
it might he, no longer sufficient to sustain them under such
an accumulated weight of suffering, had fallen by their
own hands. Many, too, of those who had thus for a
period of eighteen months been deprived of the right to
be tried, were, when brought before the High Court of
Justice, declared to be not only not guilty of any offence,
ibut the great mass of them were declared to be free fr on
the slightest suspicion. Were they, therefore liberated?
Yes, for the moment, that they might be taken into cus-
tody the next, and hurried off to some Russian fortress;
and as to some of the number, they were never seen or
beard of after. With respect to those who had been
brought before the national tribunal, there could be no
sort of quest:on that that tribunal had most faithfully dis-
charged its duty, but for such fulfilment of its functions
its reward was a reprimand from Constantine.—(Hear,
hear.) So much then for the personal liberty. Were
they in any respect in a better condition as regarded their
religious freedom? The religion of Poland, as the House
was aware, was the Roman Catholic—that was the reli-
gion of the State ; and what was the treatment which
the Poles experienced ? Their places of worship were
seized upon, and bandid over to the purposes of the
Greek Church. If that was the treatment which Poland
received in religious matters, that in military affairs
wes in full accordance with it. The Emperor Alexander,
whose ambition was unbounded, ()Lee conc,ived the in-
tention of enriching himself with the affections of his
Polish subjects, and he felt that he could not accomplish
that or tiny similar object if he did not leave to them the
possession of national uniform and their White Eagle,
which their unequalled valour had so often borne to vic-
tory—which hail so often struck terror to the hearts of
enemies of Poland. The motives of the Emperor Alex-
ander we,re clearly those of unbounded ambition, and his
arts were too well known to admit of doubt or misrepresen-
tation; he agreed that there should be a national army of
Poles, and that there should be no army in Poland ex-
cepting that national army. That national army, how-
ever, soon ceased, and Russian troops were quartered at
the expense of the Polish people—there was not a single
article of any treaty entered into with Poland which Ml'
not violated.—(Cheers.) There was no one who would
not say that the Ukases of the Russian Government had
not grossly violated them ; were not the Poles, then, in the
face of God and man, justified in vindicating their own
rights—(Cheers)—in vindicating their national existence
—that existence of which the Powers of Europe had
solemnly sworn to maintain ? If Poland were not
justified in adopting such a course—if Poland were not
fully justified, he believed that there was no free
country upon earth thet could justify its existing Go-
vernment. If Poland were not justified in resisting
the arms of her oppressor, then was the Government of
this country for the last 150 years, a gross usurpation; and
the breach of faith on the part of James 11. no sufficient
ground for transferring the Crown of these realms first
to William, and then to the House of Brunswick. It was
such a breach of faith as that which justified the revolu-
tion of 1688, that also gave a justification to the Poles.
On these grounds, then, he repudiated the idea that the
people of Poland could be charged with rebellion—nay, he
had even the authority of the Emperor Nicholas himself
for saying that it could not so be considered. The House
would recollect the footing upon which he had placed the
revolt. Nicholas stated it to be the work of a faction,
which, having gained over a certain portion of his Polish
subjects, had led them to resist his authority. It would
appear throughout as if the Russian Autocrat treated the
people of Poland as though they had never enjoyed anything
like a free constitution—as if it had been given them, for
the first time, by the Emperor Alexander—as if freedom
could alone proceed from the Cz a of Muscovy. But, as
the House well knew, Poland had from a remote period
enjoyed the benefits of a free constitution, and the re-
establishment of its national existence was distinctly re-
cognised by die treaty of Vienna ; and yet the Emperor of
Russia spoke of Poland as if he had conquered that country
by force of arms ; when the fact was, that his army merely
entered Warsaw at one gate, at the same time that Prince
Poniatowski and the Polish army evacuated it by the other.
But it was no victory—no conquest ; it was merely an
overrunning of the country. It was a mere military oc •
cupation without opposition ; and, even had it been other-
wise, he did not know that it would give him those rights

which he aaaninerl over the people of Poland. With sti 1
greater reason, then, could it be said that he had no righ'
to dispose of the constitution of Poland as he might think
proper, when, in point of fact, there had been no conquest
whatever; and the Russian Government, when entering
upon the occupation of Poland, was bound by the strongest
ties to ob•erve the constitution which she found established.
By the treaty of Tilsit the Duchy of Warsaw was declared
independent; and if Russia'acquiesced in the terms of that
treaty, it mattered not whether the constitution to be
preserved was that of Warsaw or the ancient constitution
of Poland ; for at the time Poniatowsky had quitted War-
saw, the one constitution had varied very little from th
other. Hence, then, nothing could be more obvious than
that the concession of the constitution alone could justify
Russia in treating the Polish revolt as a rebellion—that
alone could give her the rights she claimed over Poland.
The Powers of Europe were entitled to see that the system
of Europ- was preserved as it was established by the treaty
of Vienna. Having thus briefly called the attention of the
House to the foregoing topics, he should now as briefly call
their attention to a few of the occurrences which had recently
taken place in Poland. It was of course known to the House,
that of the twenty-four General Officers who had been
arrested in Poland, not more than four had returned to
their homes, though it was declared that all of them had
been included in the amnesty. The soldiers of Poland
were also included in the amnesty, and yet it was also
equ illy well known that they were marched in columns of
ten, and linked together by bars of iron, to the remotest
parts of Siberia.—( Hear, hear.) That was the treatment
which they received at the hands of the clement Nicholas.
The Nobles of Poland encountered no better treatment—
they were banished and degraded. The sentence of one
Polish Prince was signed by Nicholas on the festival of
his patron Saint ; and what was that sentence ?—That he
should be banished to Siberia, and that he should proceed
thither on foot.—( Hear.) That document was still in
existence—that i'ocument, which enjoined that that illus-
trious Prince should march along with common soldiers
to Siberia, and should encounter not only the privations
of that dreadful climate, but the misery of a journey thither
on foot. The Princess, his mother, immediately on
learning the sentence, proceeded to St. Petersburgh, in
the hope of procuring some mitigation of it ; and what was
the condition upon which the Emperor agreed that there
should be some mitigation ? The condition was, that the
Prince should acknowledge that he had been led into the
rebellion by the loss of reason consequent on the death of his
wife. To this he replied, that he was a Pole; and that no
consideration should induce him to acknowledge that he had
ever devoted himself to the cause of Poland from any other
motive than a deliberate conviction -of the justice of her
cause ; and that that conviction was adopted under cir-
cumstances which would for ever render it impossible that
he should admit the influence of any other sentiment than
a strong sense of the injuries inflicted upon his beloved
country. If any answer could have softened the decision
of the tyrant, it was this ; but the unfortunate Prince was
subjected to all the rigours of his sentence. He would
mention another case : the Russian soldiers were directed
to take possession of all infants who might be left without
parents. A grandfather was about to be robbed of a child
a female, not above eight years of age—he was seventy ;
he had been a fellow soldier of Kosciusko. He resisted
with more than Roman heroism, and even Russian bru-
tality was arrested in its career. But the Emperor of
Russia, not content with crushing Poland, appeared to
possess sufficient power to subdue every sovereign in
Europe. A person named Tours was found in the domi-
nions of the King of Hanover—and this was a transaction
respecting which he should certainly demand an explana-
tion, if there were any Minister in that House responsible
for the conduct of the affairs of Hanover—but as there
was not, he was necessarily confined in stating the simple
fat, that Russia was desirous of acquiring possession of
al: persons and papers likely to establish, or contribute to
establishing, the authority of Russia in Poland. The
Russian Minister in Dresden demanded the surrender of
Tours.—(Hear, hear.) Now, it was stated that he had
b •en found in the Hanoverian dominions ;—that he
hid been arrested there, and that his papers were taken
from him. He should like to know if the fact were so ?
By the Treaty of Vienna, the King of Hanover was not
bound to deliver up any person who was not charged with
some crime ; and indisputably not the slightest charge was
preferred against hint. He hoped that in that, as well as
in other points, lie had been mistaken—he hoped that even
Russia had not been guilty of such unheard of tyranny,
though anything might bebelieved of a Government which
carried off infants for no other reason than because they
had neither fathers nor mothers. It was in vain that
fathers, brothers, uncles stood forward to say that they
would take charge of such infants—there was no exception
in favour of such relatives in the Imperial Ukase. The
Emperor swept off these children, and said that be would
take care of them. Yes, he would take especial care that
they were made slaves and enemies of Poland—instruments
of that old Russian party, or rather that old Muscovite
party, whose enmity to Poland could be appeased by nothing
but blood. It was but too plain, that the object of that party
was to denationalize Poland, if not to exterminate her
people, at least to unite her with his own present dominions,
and in time to realize the project of universal Monarchy in
Europe. It might be said that, like that of the Roman Em-
pire, the Russian power might crumble into dust ; but let it
i.e remembered how many independent states and nations fell
victims to th it gigantic power before its own immediate
downfall. He did hope that this country would not sub-
mit to see Poland thus den itionalized. He did hope that
England would enter her solemn protest against a proceed-
ing so contrary to good faith, so derogatory to her honour
and dignity, and so opposed to the most obvious principles
of the laws of nations.—(Cheers. ) The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman concluded by moving, " Tnat there
he laid before the House copies of the manifesto of the
Emperor of Russia on the 26th of February last, and of
the Organic Statute to which it refers ; and also for a
copy or extract from the despatch of the British Ambas-
sador at Petersburgh, communicating the same to his
Majesty's Government.
Lord SANDON seconded the motion. He vtas not
prepared to say that England should go to war for such a
purpose as that of compelling Russia to do justice to Poland,
but there was nothing to prevent England Crum setting her-
self free from the reproach of raising her voice in support of
the rights of that most deeply injured nation. Under the
Treaty of Vienna, she possessed the most perfect right to do
so, and he hoped that that right would be speedily exercised.
It was in the highest degree chimerical to expect that the
Russians and the Poles would ever amalgamate or form one
people, no matter how often the attempt might be made, it
could not but end in failure and disappointment. There
was one important consideration to which he wished par-
ticularly to call the attention of the House—it was, that
the conduct of Russia had completely put an end to the
arrangement made at the Congress of Vienna; and it was
open to the Powers of Europe to make what settlement of
' the pending question the present circumstances might de-
mand. He hoped that the time was nut distant when the
Crown of Poland would he declared independent, and
when that country would be placed in such a situation
as to enable her to fulfil her duties amongst the great
lisnily of the States of Europe. In the consideration of
such a question as that, he had the satisfaction to think
that there did not exist a second opinion, either in that
House or in the nation at large.—(Loud cheers.) It had
been contended, on the part of the Emperor of Russia,
that the Poles had forfeited their right to a free constitu-
tion : as well might it be said that the people of Scotland,
after the events of 1745, had forfeited all right to personal
or political liberty.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that if he were about to
object to the present motion, he should feel it his duty to
enter into the subject somewhat in detail, and to discuss
the question at full length ; but that would be unnecessary,
as he was prepared to accede to the production of the pa-
pers. And as his Hon. and Learned Friend had had the
good taste and judgment to say that neither his arguments,
or the motion by whith he intended to conclude, did he
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• see that, with reference to all the interests concerned, and
on every account, he should best discharge his duty by not
entering into any statement of that nature. At the same
time he was bound iu justice to add, that the Government
of this country was not blind to the rights conferred upon
us by the treaty of Vienna. No man could entertain a
doubt that Great Britain possessed a full right to express
a decided opinion upon the performance or the non-per-
formance of the stipulations contained in that treaty.
Nevertheless, it could not be denied that England lay
under no peculiar obligation, individually and indepen-
dently of the other contracting parties, to adopt measures
of direct interference by force. For the reasons, then,
which he had already stated, he took for granted that the
• House would not expect him to explain at length the com-
munications which had taken place between his Majesty's
Government and their agents at Foreign Courts upon the
subject of Poland. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman in
the course of his speech had adverted to the severities prac
tiled by the Russian Government towards the Poles, and
expressed an apprehension that other and still more objec-
tionable severities were likely to take place. He (Lord Pal-
merston) should not at that moment enter into details, butt

he thought every man who Beard him must feel that it eva-
the interest of Russia to take a very different course, and t-,
attach the people of Poland to her Government, not mot
by the justice of her policy than by the concession of those
institutions which were known to be the most agreeable to
their feelings. No man who heard him could doubt that
it was the policy of the Russian Government to win the
attachment of the people for the Sovereign appointed to
rule over them ; and he must say, that any idea of exter
minating a whole people, in the manner represented by
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, seemed to him so iin -
probable, that he really could not understand on whit
grouirls the supposition rested ; and at all events he was
confident it would be found not to he correct. Advertina
to the case of Tours, which had been alluded to by the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he felt it necessary to state
that he understood Tours to he a subject either of Prussia
or of Saxony, and therefore the Hanoverian Government,
in arresting him, were merely performine a duty which it
was not able to refuse. He did not conceive it to be his
duty to make any further observations ; and the m ire so,
as he had already said he did not intend to refuse the pa-
pers which were moved for. If, however, any observe •
tions were made in the course of the evening which re-
quired explanation on his pert, he trusted the House would
extend to him its indulgence, and permit him to say a few
words in reple.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord MORPETH—Rising, as I do, to speak in behalf
of Poland, I am, perhaps, in some measure, differently
situated from others who take the same view, because 1
am not without some personal predilection for Russia. It
was my fortune to receive in that country much kindness
and hospitality. I saw there mach to amuse and interest
me. I saw a good deal to admire and to like. I con-
tracted a considerable kindness of feeling towards Russia.
I have taken opportunities of expressing it, when the oc-
casion allowed, in this House. I rejoiced most cordially
over the joint glories of Navarino. I grudged not the
trophies of Varna anti Shumna. I had no wish to foresee
in the chastisers of barbarous and infidel Turkey the
oppressors of civilized and Christian Poland. Again,
even that I conceived a very high opinion of the personal
character of the Emperor. I know that his war had not
grown pale before the most imminent end critical peril
that ever fronted a Sovereign upon his entrance to domi-
nion ; and I remarked an attention and devotion to the
business of his station highly creditable to a person of any
rank, much more so to the Ruler of the half of the Con-
tinent. I say thus much to prove that I am not natu-
rally indisposed, but quite the reverse, to Russia and her
rulers; of course in their maxims of policy and habits of
government there must he many things not congenial to
British feeling; but I hear of no country which has a wider
field before her than Russia, and if she had her true inte-
rests, and studied her real glory, for developing all her
gigantic scale of resources, for extending gradually the soft
and high influences of civilization, industry, and a.. ver
her boundless and untried regions, for raising hersea and
benefiting the world. But I must arraign her policy,
when she chooses that the sceptre she might wield with
so much advantage to mankind, should be a weapon of
aggression and a rod of iron. I must question her right to
hold Poland on any other tenure but an independent na-
tion, which she is bound to see righteously, lawfully, and
constitutionally governed. I will not enter into the deli-
cate and intricate question of the precise meaning of the
different treaties. Such as they are, I trust that my
Noble Friend, acting, I hope, in conjunction with the
other nations of Europe, will exact their faithful fulfil- I
ment, dealing impartially between the powerful and the
weak. Neither do I feel willing to dwell upon those pain-
ful
details of vengeance and suffering by which our minds
are now so often harassed, without those better opportu •
nitics which others must possess of verifying their exact
authenticity. I cannot, however, but remark, if all,
or much of what we hear is true—and much, alas, we
know most be—if the design is on foot, and in active
progress to annihilate the Polish nation, name, con
stitution, language—all but her immortal memory—the
land of Casiners anti Sigismunds, of Sobieski and Teo-
shivshes, that had first resisted the torrent of Maimmedan
invasion, and secured the liberties and religion of Europe;
if her Princes, and Nobles, and Senators, are consigned
to the dungeons, the 'nines, the graves of Siberia; if her
Noble Ladies travel to the foot of the Throne—and I am
told their very presence has ever sat awhile into the fes-
tivities of the capital—and sue not for pardon, but for
pity upon those whose fault it was to act with conscien-
tious and heroic, though perhaps despairing devotion, in
the cause of their country, while they thought they hail
one—and that suit is denied them ; if, while in confisca-
tion and exile, they teach the course of her Czartoriskys
and her Sangouches, her rising and spirited youth are
daily draughted to swell the ranks of the Russian armies, and
prepare new Te Deums for future triumphs over the
freedom of the world ; if, further—oh, crowning horror !
—let it he well attested before we credit it—children are
carried off to lose the memory of their noble country on
the frozen hanks of the Ohe, or among the mountainous
steeps of Caucasus : if these things be, we may, without
much compromising ourselves, say that a case is made out
for the energetic intervention of England and of Europe ;
we may, without much presuming, add, that whatever
becomes of that intervention, great room is left for the
righteous retribution of Heaven.
Sir GEORGE WARRENDER was anxious to look at
the question divested of all personal feelings, but he still
could not altogether get rid of the impression produced on
him by the statements of the Member for Kircuobright
(Mr. Ferausson). He looked, however, with confidence
to the exertions of the Government, and he derived much
consolation from the knowledge that they possessed a Se-
cretary of State disposed to act on true British principles.
In the year 1793, Earl Grey, on this very question of Po-
land, moved a Resolution to the effect that time general
principles on which the security of nations rested were
wounded through the side of Poland. If the principles on
which the security of nations rests were wounded through
the side of Poland, then how much more were they
wounded now, when, as they had heard to-night, a so-
lemn Treaty with the Powers of Europe had been grossly
violated ? He derived consolation, however, from the fact
that the person nearly connected with the Noble Premier
from whom this Resolution emanated was about to pro-
ceed to St. Petersburgh ; and he felt confident, from the
reputation of the Noble Ambassador, that the honour and
interests of England, us well as the wishes of her people,
would be consulted in the remonstrances which his in-
structions would call on him to put forth. He was confi-
dent that the people of England would view with the
greatest dissatisfaction any approach towards the policy of
the school of Castlereagh ; for al-hough other subjects had
diverted their attention for some time past, he could assure
the Government that there existed throughout the country
the greatest regret for the fate of Poland, and the war meat
sympathy for her brave and suffering people.—(Hear.)
Lord EBRINGTON could not avoid saying a few words
on behalf of a people whose patience, under the most
grinding oppression, could only ne equalled by the almost
superhuman bravery with which they had contended
against the power of their oppressors. Independent,
however, of all considerations of humanity, there were
considerations of policy which could not well be over-
looked. Was it to be suppo-ed that if the present aggres-
sion of Russia was suffered to pass unnoticed—if the per-
fidy of which she had been guilty to the country she was
called to rule over on conditions, every one of which she
had violated, was suffered to go without punishment—
there would be any permanent security for the peace of any
of the neighbouring States? Could Austria or Prussia look
with any confidence to a permanent peace, or to the secu-
rity of their possessions, unless a check was given to the
exorbitant pretensions of Russia? Allusion had been
made to the treaty of Vienna ; he was one of those who
thought the treaty of Vienna the consummation of the
combined efforts of the greater Powers against the weaker,
and that the stipulations of the treaty were intended for
the aggrandizement of the greater Powers, at their
expense. On this account he had always looked at
it with regret ; but he confessed he felt gratified to
learn that a British Minister at that time had la-
boured to restore Poland to her rank among na-
tions. He was happy to have such an opportunity
to do justice to the character of the Minister who at
that time represented England at the Congress, and to learn
that be, as well as the representative of the descendants of
Maria Theresa, were anxious to preserve the integrity of
that kingdom which had formed the barrier of Christen-
dom against the utmost power of its assailants. If the
present aggression was acquiesced in, he saw, however,
no hopes of permanent peace; and it was, therefore, with
no slight satisfaction that he viewed the appointment of
a dear friend of his, and a near relation of the Premier, to
the embassy of St. Petersburgh. This appointment gave
him confidence as to the result, and would infuse fresh
courage in the hearts of the friends of freedom. He was
as anxious as any man to avoid plunging his country into
the horrors of war. He was anxious to avoid anything
avoidingeil conteststo
d ra
w hetr.
he
which could have the effect of precipitating the country
into war, but he was satisfied that firmness at the present
momentafte, .
was t
Should
ie
they, besthowever,
e
sword in order to preserve the rights of nature, he hoped
it would be in conjunction with their free neighbour and
oesotrrio n suchdtd. a place,rrbey andhai
l
m
ally of France, and in support of free principles and free
constitutions.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL was almost afraid to trust himself
to speakong
those a s
be
lay felt
whom ehod
of
be eii,peed
been told of time violation of the rights of Poland, by the
violation of the terms of the treaty of Vienna. The rights
among;
a thbies
was subjc
surrounded.

of Poland depended not on the treaty of Vienna ; tuul those
who pretended at that Conference of the right of powers
to dispose of that territory, bad no more right to do so
than a band of robbers at any time possessed to parcel out
the spoil they obtained in their excursions in search of
plunder. Poland was no conquered country. It had
been run over by the troops of France, and by the troops
of Russia, and of Austria, but it was not conquered ; and
as to its rights, they existed before the spoliation of 1772,
or the division of 1791, and were not to be taken away
or disposed of by any treaty which the Powers of Vienna
might have thought proper to enter into. They bad
heard that night of the atrocities perpetrated by Russia.
Wives were separated from their husbands—all the ties of
humanity were severed, and 100,000 childri,:n had been
se it into the interior of Russia to forget their language,
their kindred, and their country. The Noble Lord
(Morpeth) had spoken of the gratification he felt in being
known to the Emperor of Russia, and in having visited
his Court. For his (Mr. O'Connell's) part, he should be
ashamed of such an acquaintance.—(Laughter.) If
the Emperor of Rossi had been a smaller and more
'ns'gnificant person, it would have been considered a
disgrace to hold any communication; but because he had a
ht rde of three or four hundred thousand barbarians at his
hack, was that a reason n•hy mankind should not treat
him as he deserved, and execrate him on account of his
crimes? The Barbarian Conqueror had violated the
treaty regarding the Poles in a manner such as no treaty
was ever violated before. The miscreant barbarian bad
violated all compact—had trampled on all rights ; and was
this Attila—this scourge of God—to found a new claim
to the kingdom of Poland, bi cause success had, by bar-
barian fore•, crowned his perfidy and infamy with success?
It was a question not of argument but of natural feeling.
No country had been so ill treated as Poland.—(Cheers.)
Ois no country had such barbarities been exercised. The
conduct of Russia was most atrocious, and the amount of
her crimes daily increasing. He trusted, however, that
the day was not far distant when the nationality of Poland
should be once more restored.—(Cheers.)
Mr. SCHONSWAR expressed his abhorrence at the
atrocities which had been perpetrated upon Poland. He
could p,rsonally confirm the statements made in the House
that night, from the statements of persons who had lately
arrived from that unhappy country. He hoped it was
not yet too late for the intervention of this country, and he
trusted to the spirit of the people, backed by that House,
to awe the people of Poland from utter extinction.
Colonel EVANS said that the Noble Lord the Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs bad acknowledged the right of
England to call on Russia for explanation, and on that he
relied. He could not, however, but observe that Hon.
Members had shrunk from the possible alternative of war,
in case negotiations shoull fail. Now, though he was
one of the last Members of that House who wished to
plunge this country in war, yet he saw no particular rea-
sons for shrinking from that alternative if our negotiations
should fail. The power of Russia had been much over-
estimated ; she was at the mercy of France and England,
and it required but very little exertion and expense on the
part of those two countries to destroy her commerce and
her maritime power, and to make themselves mast.rs of
her possessions i❑ Asia, and on the shores of the Black
Sea.—( Hear. )

Mr. GALLY KNIGHT said he thought the war party
in France had much to answer for; they had inducedabrave
and gallant people to encounter an overwhelming power
on the faith of pledges of support, which they were un-
able to fulfil.—(Hear.) That struggle, however, was now
over; but what was the treatment which Poland received
at the bawls of the conqueror ? Instead of lenity it was
exterminated—it was blotted out of the map of Europe;
and surely when, according to the strict letter of the treaty
of Vienna, the chains of Italy had been riveted, the mt.
tion ility of Poland ought to be preserved.—(Hear,
hear.) This argument was more particularly applica-
ble at the present time, when a Convention was lying
on their table between this country and Russia, by
whi h a sum of money was granted to that country in
c. Aderation of her infirm adhesion to that treaty...-
(Hear.) And as England was the presiding party of that
treaty, the admitted arbitress, it was yet more particularly
our duty to prevent its infraction.—(Cheers.) He ad-
mi.ted that Poland was in a state of insurrection; but it
was in consequence of repeated violations of the Charter,
and of unmerited oppression.—(Cheers.) One thing,
however, gave him pleasote ; fur he was convinced that
not aI I the power of all the Russias could ever Russian-
ize Poland.—(Cheers.)
Mr. PIGOTT rose to express his entire concurrence
with the Gentleman who spoke last. Much well merited
reprobation had been east on the Emperor of Russia.
They were bound to insist on the performance of the
treaty of Vienna.—(Hear,)
Air. RUTHVEN felt that the situation of Poland had
been so well expressed by the Hon. Gentleman who
brought forward the motion, that be should not attempt
to add anything to it. He entirely concurred in the views
which had been taken by his Honourable Friends. He
looked upon the Emperor of Russia with horror, detesta-
tion and contempt. It was singular that the convention
alluded to was at that moment on their table ; but he
would ask the House was the hard-earned money of the
people of this country to he sent to pay the troops of the
tyrant to assist in the subjugation of the liberties:ot Poland?
He was sure the people of England would willingly have
raised Vat sum for the assistance of the brave Poles,
whilst th y would detest its contemplated application.
Sir R. INGLIS expressed his surprise at the language
which had been held in the House towards the Emperor
of Russia. He was surprised that the Right Hon. Secre-
tary opposite, and the other Members of his Majesty's
Government, should have suffered seven Members to pro-
ceed with such language—(Cries of hear, hear, and
suffered)—be meant without notice.—(Cheers.) He con-
sidered such language to be a most improper use of the
freedom of debate in that House. Such language was
highly improper in relation to a private individual; but
when a Sovereign—one, too, with whom this country
was in alliance—was termed a miscreant ; when the Hon.
and Learned G• ntleman used such language as that—
Mr. C. FERGUSSON—I did not say so.
_ .

Sir R. INGLIS did not mean that. Hon. Gentleman,
but allot! er Hon. and Learned Member, who was then
absent (Mr. O'Connell) : he could not withhold his sus..
prise that no comment was made by any Member of his
Majesty's Gsvernment. He was not to be understood as
giving any opinion for or against the motion. He had an
opinion which he should reserve; but he must observe,
t at if such language were used in that House, there could
be very Lute prospect of maintaining peace.—(Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON said, that no person could regret
more than he did the expressions which had been uttered
by the Hon. Member for Kerry. He had, however, pre
viously spoken ; and he did not conceive himself respory
sitile for the language of Hon. Members.—(Hear, hear.)
He did not feel himself justified in interrupting the Hon'
Member, so long as lie did not intrude upon the order of
the House.—(Hear.)
Mr. BEAUMONT was surprised that the Noble Lord
should disapprove of the expressions which had been made
use of towards the Emperor of Russia. For his part, he
was delighted with them. He entirely concurred with
the Honourable Member, that the Emperor of Russia wit
a miscreant.—(Cheers.) As a country gentleman, repre
seotative of a very large county, he would repeat dial,
words.—(Cheers.) He relied on the spirit which would
be evinced by the people of England under a Reformed
Parliament. They would speak in a voice that could no
be mistaken.—( Hear.)
Mr. HUME agreed with the Honourable Gentleman
who spoke last. An Honourable Member complaille"
that the Emperor of Russia was called a miscreant; whys,
he would call him a monster in human form.—(Cheers•)
If he knew language by which he could more strongly
express his detestation, he would use it.--(Cheers.) 14:
wondered that the Hon. Member for the University
sis'taiairs idte
without
iththyhooshueet
wsuoffrde notice.rs
.e such language
Oxford should venture in that House to address a Minister
d
ot
of thessbi
rreWhy it was not in hie
power to prevent it.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. HUME—I ask what were the words to which the
Hon. Member alluded ?---(Cheers.)
Mr. HUME—I repeat those words.—(Loud cheers.)
Crown,uiused
seildNN
They were too weak to express his feelings of detestation
at the barbarities which had been exercised towards 17°:
land. He would ask, were the accounts of the condor;
of Russia untruly or unfairly stated ? If anything stated
(Cheers.)
by his Hon. Friend, the Member for Kerry, was untrue'
let any Member stand up its his place and deny
(Cheers.) If true, he asked any man, possessing the
feelings of a Briton, whether such lansuage was not wealtt
when compared to such atrocity ?..--(Cheers.) He had that
day attended a large meeting of his fellow-countrymen
where the strongest sympathy was expressed towards LW.
happy Poland, and lie was convinced the whole nation
participated in that sympathy.
Mr. WYSE said this was not the first time he he
heard great tenderness exercised towards the Emperor
Russia, who was, perhaps, the most questionable Sore
reign in Europe. Liberty of speech on such subjects o_g
these was highly desirable; and it was an idle thing 'o°
suppose that it was possible, by diplomacy or cunning, t
check the just indignation of the people of this county"
He felt much pride in believing that, by such debates.a..
these, they were raising a moral harrier against the :fled
roads of Russian despotism; and he was,'therefore, grie,bs
to find that there was one man in that House who o°'
G aLLniidss kii there.—(Hear.)

Proper to deprecate such a discussion. The Ilonourabls
Gentleman then went on to contend that the Constitu
tion that had been given to Poland, pursuant to the Con.
peas of Vienna, had been violated in every respect; and
in the place of liberty, oppression and despotism hail
been dealt out to them. It was sufficient to show what
was the tendency of Russian policy towards Poland by
stating the one fact, that in spite of all remonstrance—in
spite of all petitioning—Constantine had still been allowed
to tyrannize over Poland, until at last the Poles had nothing
left hut the last appeal to the sword ; and nobly bad they
made that appeal. Though the noble attempt of the
Poles had failed, yet he did not despair : the force of
moral influence would do much ; and success must finally
attend their cause, when it was known that the united
voice of England was in favour of that magnanimous but
unfortunate people.
Mr. BARING defended the Hon. Member for Oxford
for having deprecated the use of such strong terms of op-
probrium towards the Emperor of Russia, because he (111..
Baring) believed that the best way to preserve the peace of
Europe was to avoid all those personalities that were seldom
used in the society of gentlemen.—(Cheers.) In his opi-
nion, therefore, it would have been well if the Members of
• his Majesty's Government, instead of the Member for Ox-
ford, had stood forward for the purpose of expressing their
sense of the impropriety of making use of such phrases.
With respect to the question of Poland, it seemed to him
that the cause of that unfortunate country rather appealed
to their feelings, than to the national interests of England ;
for he did not believe that there was any reason to fear
the power or strength of Russia.—(Cheers.) He begged
that it might not be thought that he had no sympathy
for Poland ; on the contrary, he had never heard of a
mare righteous rebellion—more especially as a man was
• sent to reign over them who had been deprived of the
Crown of Russia on account of his incompetency. But
though he personally had all this sympathy fir Poland, he
could never agree to the principle that the Government of
this country, in cases of injustice, whether in Poland, Rus-
sia, Italy, or the Peninsula, ought to sally forth as the re-
dresser of wrongs—the only effect of which would he to
embroil England in endless disputes. Nevertheless, he
thought that the Government was right, in conjunction
with other Governments, to press the treaty of Vienna on
the Cabinet of Russia, in the hope of obtaining better
terms for that unfortunate country, urged, as he had no
doubt it would be with firmness and prudence by the Noble
Lord who was about to proceed to St. Petersbureh for that
purpose.—(Cheers.) In his opinion, the best check that
this country could have exercised over Russia would have
been to have refused the payment of those five millions,
for which there was not a tittle of right on the part of
Russia.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SHELL said, that the Member for Thetford would
have them " mince their words, and mollify damnation
with a phrase." He was right ; but lie should make al-
lowance for others, who himself had sometimes occasion for
indulgence towards his vocabulary; and it would not be
amiss for him to consider a man pardonable for speaking of
a miscreant on his throne, as for speaking of his fellow-citi-
zens (a portion of the English people) as " blackgu irds
in the streets"—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Oxford
had been the first to find fault with this fervour in favour
of the Poles. But was he not the man who had intro.
duced the case of the Vaudois into that House? What
were the bursts of eloquence that emanated from the
Hon. Baronet on that occasion ? In what terms did he
not denounce the oppression with which his fellow-re-
ligionists were treated ? But this evening how soft, mel-
lifluous, and gentle, had he become ! His words had
fallen like drops of honey from his lips in speaking of the
Emperor of All the Russias. The Member for Thetford,
however, had not followed his example. It was true,
that he bad no objection to pay reverence to an Emperor,
Perhaps on the principle that others were ready to " re-
spect the Devil for his burning throne." But neverthe-
less he ventured to condemn the conduct of Nicholas,
and would not trust himself with writing Constantine's
epitaph. For his part, he (Mr. Shell) would not call
Nicholas a miscreant ; because, when he saw a man dele-
gating his brother, into whom the spirit of Nero must
have transmigrated—if there was a metempsychosis
among despots, to tread the heart of Poland out—when
he saw him betraying a nation of heroes into submission,
and then transporting them to Siberia, shaving off the
grey hair of nobles with the blood of Europe's saviours in
their veins; degrading and enslaving women, sparing
neither age nor sex, and thrusting the band of a ruthless
and Herod•like infanticide into the cradle of Polish child-
hood. When be saw him acting thus, and leaving him-
self nothing to add to damnation, he would not call him
" miscreant," because the word was too poor and incom-
mensurate with his depravity, but exclaim, " Oh, thou
art worse than words can give the out."—(Cheers.)
Mr. M. O'CONNELL expressed a hope that the Hon.
Baronet would explain away the terms that he had used
towards the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry, which,
in
his (Mr. M. O'Connell's) opinion, were highly unpar-
iamentarys
Sir ROBERT INGLIS did mean that the language
used by the Hon. Member for Kerry was very improper.
The Hon. and Learned Member had applied the word
miscreant to an absent person, which was, in his estima-
tion, very wrong.
Sir ROBERT PEEL was glad that the information
was to be given, and he wished that Hon. Members had
been in possession of this information before they had in-
dulged in so many remarks. It was easy to talk of war,
but there was a moral responsibility on the nation not to
enter into war. We were bound to consult our engage-
ments and our situation before we let loose war, to which
we could not set any bounds. He would suggest, as an
addition to the motion of the Hon. Member, that he
should ask for a copy of the Constitution granted to Po-
land under the treaty of Vienna. He would forbear from
flum expressing any opinion ou our engagements and on
the conduct of Russia. He would suspend his judgment
on the severities said to be exercised towards the Poles,
till he had complete and certain information as to the con-
duct held towards them. With respect to the language
used, he cordially concurred with the Hon. Member for
Thetford and his Hon. Friend (Sir R. Inglis) in depre-
cating such language as had been used. Such language
tended to alienate the affection of other Powers, and make
us hated by them. The objects of ouorse.rms,p
never used such language. They used mitre dignified
terms, and enjoyed more sympathy than if they had ex-
hausted all the vocabulary of Billingsgate. He doubted
whether it was politic towards the Poles to rally around
the Emperor of a great nation all the inhabitants of that
empire, at seeing him who was the national Representa-
tive so abused. To use such language was lowering the
character of the House of Commons, and diminishing the
means of effecting their own object. It was impossible
for any Englishman not to sympathize with the gall int
Poles; but knowing the personal character of the Em-
peror, and considering th it the inflicting such severity as
had been described would be unjust and impolitic, he must
refuse to give any opinion till those severities were clearly
made out, and then he must hear what could be said on
the other side of the question.
Tho motion was then agreed to.
Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON, acting on Sir Robert
Peel's suggestion, wished to 'have the Constitution of Po-
land added to the papers, which, we believe, was agreed to.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at Half-past Two o'Clock.

THE KING v. FORD AND ANOTHER.-
The Public are requested to suspend their judgment in a
Cause tried in the King's Bench on Tuesday, 26th inst.,
entitled as above, until the ensuing term, when a motion
for a new trial will be made.

GEORGE SAMUEL FORD.
26, Pall-Mall, June 27, 1832.
MISS FANNY KEMBLE'S DRAMATIC
SEETCH is published in The Court Magazine and _Mlle
Assentblee, No. 1, improved series, conducted by the Hun.
Mrs. NORTON. It contains also original papers by
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Published by EDWARD BULL, 26, Holles.street, Caven-
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111.
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