The Sun.
London, England, 1835-06-24 00:00:00

not? It seemed to him that if the amendment of his Hon. and
Learned Friend were adopted, as soon as the new system was es-
tablished there would be two distinct sets of persons—the bur-
gessses by rents, and the freemen by self-election. He would
now advert to the question of property. The rights of pro-
perty at present possessed by freemen were, generally speak-
ing, mere usurpation ; and the sooner the abuse was put an
end to the better. It was thought by his Hon. and Learned
Friend that a cruel injustice would be done by the Bill towards
the freemen as regarded the Parliamentary franchise. It was
no injustice to these who had now that franchise to say that
from this time freemen should not possess it. The Reform
Bill did not touch that point : it only provided that while free-
men were allowed to exist they should exercise the elective
franchise. But was there any one so insane as to wish to tie
up the bands of Parliament on this point for all time to come ?
It appeared to him that the clause under consideration was
essentially necessary for the purposes of the Bill. Let the
Committee consider what the great mass of freemen were.
They need not be householders ; they were not required to
possess any property ; they were not called upon to pay any
rate ; they might pass the greater part of the year in gaols.
What was the consequence ? That they were in general in a
low and degraded state, and were unable to withstand the
temptation of a bribe. In almost all boroughs it was the free-
men who were notorious for their disposition to bribery. It
was said by, his Hon. and Learned Friend that other classes
of voters shared in the infamy of that imputation. For him-
self, he firmly believed that the freemen tainted the whole mass
of electors, and that until they were eradicated it would be
impossible to expect any thing like purity of election.—
( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) It was no doubt true that by
the proposed improvement some persons might suffer, but
such must be the case with all human improvements. There
was scarcely a Bill for the improvement of a highway which
might not be protested against by some innkeeper as depriv-
ing him of the custom which he had enjoyed.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY protested against the sweeping con-
demnation of burgesses in which the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman who had just spoken had indulged. He had charac-
terized all the burgesses in the kingdom as a class of per-
sons the like of whom could be found nowhere outside of a
gaol. Now he (Mr. Harvey) had the honour during seven-
teen years to be returned to Parliament for the borough of
Colchester ; and he would tell the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman that he found the poorer portion of his constituents
were uniformly the most pure and the most virtuous. There
was one observation in the able speech of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Exeter which ought to be matter of
grave consideration for those Hon. Members who were
friendly to a more extended constituency than that which
existed at present. It was, that the effect of the clause
before the Committee would at once destroy no inconsider-
able portion of the constituency, and would eventually de-
stroy more than half that constituency. The number of per-
sons enjoying the elective franchise in the borough of Col-
chester was between eleven and twelve hundred ; of whom
about half were of the class which had drawn down the ire
of the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General. A quarter of
these would be immediately extinguished if this clause were
passed ; and in the course of twenty years the whole of that
class would be destroyed, and the constituency of Colches-
ter would be reduced to about five hundred. But what
would be the case in places in which the entire constituency,
including burgesses, at present amounted to only five hundred?
Why, that there would be rotten boroughs in abundance. He
confessed, however, that he was not unfriendly to the clause,
for out of a mass of evil good was sometimes produced. It had
been absurdly said at the time of the discussions on the Reform
Bill, that that was a final measure. It was impossible,
however, now to doubt, that at no very distant period those
persons who were called into being by the present Bill
to shoose the officers cf corporations, would feel that
the same wisdom which directed them in the choice of a mayor
and common council might direct them in the choice of a
Member of Parliament ; and that in the end the Parliamen-
tary constituency would be made co-extensive with the muni-
cipal constituency. The Hon. and Learned Attorney-General
had passed very lightly over one or two of the remarks which
had been made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Exe-
ter. He said little or nothing about chartered or endowed
schools. The charters of some schools expressly declared
that the boys should be the sons of burgesses. No,v, if the
clause were agreed to, in five and- twenty years the burgesses
would be swept away.- -( " No; freemen.") lint freemen
were burgesses. Now, after the pssing of this Bill no person
would be admitted on the roll of burgesses. In schools,
therefore, the charters of which declared that the boys should
be the sons of burgesses, if the burgesses were destroyed the
qualification would be destroyed. He did not say that this
might not be remedied ; but when there was a race of amity
with reference to the Bill, he thought it desirable to throw
into the common stock of information whatever suggestion;
might occur to him. The Hon. and Learned Member for
Exeter had somewhat overstated the case of the charity of Sir
Thomas White ; although he (Mr. Harvey) was sure that the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had no intention of overstating
it.—(The Hon. Member for Southwark here entered into a
detail respecting the charity in question, the exact nature of
which we were unable to collect.) lie was glad to hear from
the Hon. and Learned Attorney-General that the chartered
schools were to be thrown open, not only to burgesses but
to all others. This would be especially advantageous to Col-
chester; for at present, although there was a considerable en-
dowed school there, the master received all the money, and
there were no boys in it.—( A laugh.)
Sir W. FOLLETT explained.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL contended that it would
be impossible—not merely difficult, but impossible—that any
good or any tolerable system could not go on if the amend-
ment proposed by the Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter
were adopted. In a few years, what would be the state of
most of the corporate towns ? There would be one class of
burgesses—the useful and the important—contributing to all
the expenses, and performing all the duties ; and they would
be surrounded by an aristocratic class, idle and useless. It
would be impossible, with reference to the common principles
of human nature, that such a system could exist without jea-
lousies and heart-burnings that must eventually destroy it. To
say, as the Learned Gentleman did, fiat the clause deprived
a number of innocent persons of their vested rights was begging
the whole question. The class of persons called freemen en-
joyed among other things valuable rights of common ; but it
was not because they were freemen that those rights were be-
stowed upon them, but because they performed certain duties.
As soon, therefore, as those duties were thrown upon others,
and they ceased to exercise the functions which entitled them
to enjoy the rights they did, nothing could be more natural
than that they should cease to have the exclusive enjoyment of
those rights. With respect to the case of charitable trusts,
put by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite, all
that the Bill did was to change the trustees ; and should
any doubt arise as to the disposal of the funds, the Court of
Chancery would solve it, and take care that they went as
nearly as possible in the channel intended by the donors. If
this reasoning sufficed to deprive the freemen of the control
of property, it would be at least equally good for depriving
their posterity of the right to vote for Members of Parliament.
They had the right of voting for Members of Parliament
bestowed upon them, not because they were freemen, but be-
cause they had other rights and duties to which the right of
voting for Members of Parliament appeared naturally to at-
tach itself. But the moment it was ascertained to be incon-
sistent with the interests of the country that such a body as the
freemen should exist, their privileges as a distinct body natu-
rally disappeared along with themselves.
Mr. C. BARCLAY said that he had alitays considered the
continuance of the freemen a great blot in the Reform Bill;
but as Parliament had decided that they should retain their
right of voting for Members of the national Legislature, he
could not consistently deprive them of the power of voting for
municipal officers. The objection urged against them that
they were constantly guilty of bribery was little of an ob-
jection in this case, compared with what it was to their voting
for Members of Parliament, inasmuch as here the temptation
could not be any thing like so strong. Indeed he was satisfied
that the abolition of the freemen as a class would introduce
the greatest corruption and jobbing into municipal elections.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he should give his support to
the amendment of the Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter,
for he thought the freemen were far from deserving, as a body,
the obloquy heaped upon them. He could, from his own ex-
perience, bear testimony to the virtue of the freemen of Co-
ventry, more of whom had voted for him than for any former
Member, and he could safely say that he had not been asked
for a farthing by any of them. Besides, the clause would in
effect be a great infringement upon the Reform Act, for it
would greatly reduce the constituency. In Coventry the
constituency would, if this clause were agreed to, be reduced
from 3,500 to about 1,500.—( Hear.)
Mr. VERNON SMITH thought that this clause would be
most beneficial, both in its direct and indirect effects.—( Hear. )
It was indeed one of the main principles of the Bill ; and so
far -was he from thinking his Noble Friend had not done suffi-
cient in the way of preserving the rights of the freemen, that
he was tempted to suggest to him that power should be given
in the Bill to buy them up at a fixed price, in order that the
new system they were establishing might bear no marks upon
it of the corruption of the old. With regard to this clause
being an infringement of the compact made on the passing of
the Reform Bill, he must beg to say that it was no such thing.
The other branch of the Legislature desired to make certain
alterations in the Reform Bill, to which this House consented,
but that was not entering into a compact. The principle on
which the system of freemen stood was the corruption of the
many for the purpose of supporting the power of the few.
The freeman's rights were, with the exception of apprentice-
ship, acquired in no way entitling the party to honour or re-
spect. The most frequent method of acquiring those rights,
next to apprenticeship, was by birth ; and he must say, that
however valuable an hereditary legislature might be, heredi.
tart' electorship could have no value at all. He hoped, there-
fore, that the clause would be allowed to remain as it now
stood.
Sir J. GRAHAM rose to make a suggestion to the Hon.
and Learned Member for Exeter, which might shorten the dis-
suasion, and, at the same time, not cause a departure from
justice in decision. He did not wish to laud the purity of the
freemen of Coventry with some Honourable Members, to vilify
the character of freemen generally with the Attorney- Gene-
ral—( Cheers)—or to defend the annihilation of an entire class
with the Solicitor-General. The amendment of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Exeter went both to preserve the Par-
liamentary franchise of those who had acquired an inchoate
right ihereto, and also their inchoate rights of property. What
he would suggest was, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
should divide his amendment into two parts, the first of which
relating to inchoate electoral rights, applied to this clause,
whilst the second, relating to inchoate rights of property, really
-- ,- concerned the tenth clause. Many gentlemen might be in-
dined to epee with the Hon. and Learned Member in one
-• branch of his amendment,-whilst they would not in the other.
" He would now shortly apply himself to another point. He
wasbouni to kidmit that it was with reluctance that he, as a

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