The Sun.
London, England, 1832-04-17 00:00:00

REFORM BILL.

The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that a Noble
Friend of his had given notict of his intention to move for
papers connected with the Reform Bill. Ile had no
doubt that the discussion on that important motion
would take up a very considerable portion of time;
he therefore hoped his Noble Friend would be induced to
pnstpone his motion to some future period, or allow it to
be discussed in the Committee.

Lord WYNFORD said that, in consequence of the
augge,tions of the Noble Duke, he should postpone his
motion till the second day after the Easter recess.
The Ins,lvent Debtors (Ireland) Bill went through a
Committee, and was ordered to be read a third time.
Toe Duke of NEWCASTLE presented two petitions
from parishe4 in Nottingham, against the new system of
education in Ireland.
COLONIAL TRADE.

The Earl of HAREWOOD then rose, pursuant to no-
tice, to present the petition which had been agreed to at
a most numerous meeting of the West India Proprietors,
held at the City of London Tavern a few days since. The
Noble Earl, in presenting the petition, stated that he h
attended that meeting, and be felt convinced that one more
numerous had never taken place, or one that felt their
interests more deeply affected by what might be
the result of the present petition. He disclaimed, in bring-
ing the subject before the House, any idea of doing so in
a political view : he had no such views ; and although
in the course of what he had to offer to their
Lordship., he might feel it incumbent to make remarks on
the Government of the country, he did not do so
with any hostile feelings towards them, but only did what
was necessary to elicit the subj,ct. The present
petition complained, in the first place, of distresses : dis-
tresses were admitted by all who knew any thing of West
India affairs, and indeed by the Government itself, inas-
much as they had tried at something to alleviate them. But
when he (Earl IL) considered in what way those distresses
pressed, he must say, without attempting to offer to point
out any remedy, that they pressed to so great a degree as
to annihilate a great part of the property of the West India
proprietors. In point of fact, the state of things was such,
that the produce of the country was literally and absolutely
confiscated. It was impossible, in his opinion, for pro-
perty to exist in that country under the present system.
—(Hear.) He would not enter at any length into the
effects of that system, as he understood there Was
to be a Committee appointed, and that subject would be
more fit to be conidered there than by their Lordships
in that House. lie would not hesitate to say, if the system was
allowed to be cartied on the British West India colonies
must sink. He would not go at present into the question of
free trade: that was also a subject more for the consideration
of a Committee; but when he considered that the
distress arose not from accidental causes—not from hur-
ricanes alone, or insurrections, but from a long con-
tinued course of things, he could not but thick
the system ought to he examined into, with a view ofsee-
ing whether it was not worth while preserving the Bustles
colonies, in preference to keeping up that system which had
already brought ruin on hundreds in the British colonies,
which h id impaired the shipping interests of the country,
and which would ultimately end in the destruction of both.
He was perfectly convinced that any person standing up in
that House, or elsewhere, to advocate matters relative
to the West Indies, was looked upon in rather an
odious and prejudicial light ; but notwithstanding that, he
felt it to be his ditty to do so, being convinced that the
more the West India interests were properly under-
stood, the more would that prejudice which existed
sgainst them lie poped would be removed,--(Hear.)
Whatever may he tha 1 ss of the proprietors on the sale of
their produce' and is was now often considerable, he was
hound to keep his slaves, so that the natural consequence
of the continuance of such a state of things, must be for
prietors so situated, to abandon cultivating their land alto-
gether. The state of anarchy into which such estates
will be thrown would soon be extended to those
in its neighbourhood, till at length the widening
circle embraced the whole colony in ruins. As
possessing:property in the West Indies, lie now addressed
the house on behalf of that part of our possessions. He
protested against the clamour and insidious statements
made against them—a clamour the more unjust, as no one
ventured to suggest how the West India Proprietors could
get out of their present difficulties.—(Hear, hear.)
He could only say that if any suggestions were made that
would tend to their relief, that they would be most
happy to adopt them. But no one wishing well to those
colonies or to the slaves themselves, ought to sanction ir-
ritating motions in Parliament. He now begged to say
a few words on the Orders in Council sent out to the West
Indies. Whenever any considerable agitation was got
up in this country either at a general election or at any
other time, there seemed a disposition not merely in this

-jut in all Governments to send out Order in Council,
the effect of which was to produce much mischief.
Before issuing them, the Government ought to consider the
effect they were likely to produce.—(Hear.) As far as
they had yet seen, their only effect had been to make the
slaves :ook from home for protection ; than which nothing
could be more dangerous in such a state of society.
Those Orders in Council had been framed, as
if all the moral, religious, and physical wants of the
negroes had been utterly neglected. And no steps had
been taken to mitigate the horrors of the state of
society they assumed to exist.—(Hear.) They entered
into details of the quantity of food that was to
be given to the negroes, as if they had been hitherto
starved, and regulated hours of labour without the slightest
regard to climate or any other circumstance that ought to
guide them. In Demerara it was unhealthy to labour early
in the day; in Barbadoes it was delightful : the slaves al-
ways preferred it, and tbusobtained a greater part of the day
to numbers. The Orders in Council made no distinction
between these cases. He thought it was not honest or
fair, for one part of his Majesty's subjects to he per-
petually writing down another part, as the West Indians
were written down by a party in this country. If
they had any thing to state let them state it fairly, and he
had no doubt that impartial and candid men would
know how to do bath parties ample justice. The
Committee which it was understood was to be appointed
would, he had no doubt, make full inquiry into the sub-
ject. What they had done the true situation of the
West Indies would be seen, and any recommendaton
made by that Committee would, he was sure, be
agreed to by all, unless evidently injurious to the
colonies, and he would not suppose that any such sugges-
tion could be made. He thought the mode in which his
Majesty's Government wished to force the legislative colo-
nies not making the Orders in Council law, was particularly
truth. The planters said they were entreated, and wanted
relief, and Government told them that some was in contem-
plation, but they should not have it unless they adopted the
Orders in Council, the effect of which must be to those
colonies who did not obey the mandate equally ruinous.
The Noble Earl said that he only felt it necessary to allude
to one more topic. The petitioners previous to the
manufacture, as he would call it, of the Orders in
Council, were desirous of having a Committee appointed
to investigate their complaints, and sthey were also desi-
rous now of having those Orders in Council examined into.
Those Orders in Council were in course of execution, or at
least they had been promulgated ; but in the Legislative
Colonies their operation had been suspended, because the
Legislaturess declared them to be unit to be styled as laws.
The Noble Earl submitted that the petitioners ought now
to be placed in the same condition as when they first re.
quested a Committee, and that, during the examination of
this subject, Government would suspend the execution of
the Orders in Council. He would now oonclude by mov-
ing that the petition be read at length.
'l'he petition having been read,
Lord SUFFIELD said it was with extreme surprise
as well as regret, that he heard the petitioners request that
a Committee should be appointed to examine into this
subject. Ile admitted that great distress existed in
the British West India Colonies, and declared that
it arose solely from the existence of slavery. Was
it to be supposed that a system founded on such
cruelty, where man had unlimited power over his fellow
man, should exist much longer ? He appealed to the House
whether that system had not now failed ? The sub •
ject of slavery was one which was but too well
known in every corner of the kingdom, and that
this House should be the only place in which igno-
rance should prevail was to him most astonishing.
The Noble Earl opposite nad complained of the orders in
council. He (Lord Suffield) must express his great
obligation to his Majesty's Government those, the only,
means that had been found for carrying into effect
the manumission of slaves. All the plans of former Go-
vernments to do so had been unsuccessful, from not knowing
the proper mode of carrying it into effect, The present
Government had, however, hit upon the secret, to exact
means of enforcing that amelioration. It was true that
there were colonial legislatures in the West Indies, but
still it was competent to the Government at home to say
to them, if they adopted certain regulations they should
receive such and such favours, but that if tisey refnsed
to adopt them they should be deprived of the benefit-
The papers on their Lordship? table, sheaved the
spirit with which those Legislatures received the
suggestions of his Majesty's Government. They
had resisted those suggestions, and repelled the
vice of the Government, and must now take the conse-
quences. It was well known, the produce of the West
India colonies was always uncertain. In some seasons,
great wealth had been aequiriii ; while, in others, from
a failure of their crops, many persons had be, n ruined.
He, for one, would never give his consent to an enquiry
into that which was as plain to every one as the sun at
noon -el ay.
Earl HAREWOOD explained. He never objects(' to
the Orders in Council, but in his opit.ion there were
certain parts of them which could not satiafactorlly be
carried into effect.

Lord GODERICH was sorry to take up the time of
the House, but there were ts,me points on which the Noble
Lord had touched on, which be felt himself compelled to say
a few words. It was very true, as had been ob-
served by his Noble Friend, (Lord Suffield) that
t'!ere had long existed in this country a strong feeling upon
the state in which the slaves in the West India colonies wer
treated, as well os upen their ultimate condition, whether
they were to be free, anti how that state of things
was now to he brought about. On the other hand
there were the colonists, who had as strong
a feeling against being dictated to, or to receive any system
of law as to their conduct to the slaves.