The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-14 00:00:00

ters having expressed a desire that he should continue his
services to the Court, at his (Lord Plunkett's) request
Mr. Long agreed to give his assistance to his secretary,
and he (Lord Plunkett) agreed, on such conditions, that
his secretary, out of his emoluments, should pay Mr.
Long 5001. a year. Mr. Long having already filled the
office, and being well acquainted with its duties, he thought
it right to secure his services, and be would leave it to
their Lordship? judgment to say whether he had not
been warranted in doing so. He begged once for all

to say, that he (Lord Plunkett) did not in any man-
❑er share in the emoluments of any person appointed

by him. Of course no such charge bad been preferred
by any gentleman against him, but he satisfied his
own mind in making the declaration.—(Hear.) It had
been said that the demand for those fees was illegal, as
the warrants were not made out at the time. He should

not trouble their Lordships at present with a discussion
as to whether they were legal or not, but he begged to say
that he certainly considered them legal. The warrants
signed by him on the desire of his late Majesty were 32 in
number, for the 32 counties in Ireland. There were not
warrants for each individual Magistrate, but the warrants

in question contained the names of every Magistrate i❑ the
particular county to which such warrant was addressed,
and it appeared to him that a warrant for the whole of the
Magistracy was a warrant for all the Magistrates indivi-
dually. The usual course, then, for the Magistrates to
pursue was, to apply for warrants to the office of the Lord
Chancellor's secretary, which were not signed by the Lord
Chancellor, and to get their dedirnus from him, which
they could not otherwise get. _As he had already

said, he had never heard it asserted that the demand for
these fees was an illegal one, until be arrived here last
week, and the moment that such an assertion reached
him he put the matter in train for the purpose of obtain-
ing the opinion of the Attorney-General of Ireland with
regard to it. It was under the Treasury minute of
September, 1830, over which he had no controul, that
those fees were demanded; and under those circum-

stances he (Lord Plunkett) had no right to interfere
with the legal claims of those who demanded those
fees, or to tell t hem that they should only demand
the same fees that were enforced in England. It
was said that the labour in this instance had been
exceedingly little, if any at all. Now he could assure
their Lordships that the secretaries in his secretary's office
had, during the last four or five months, been laboriously
employed ever since the measure of appointing Lord Lieu-
tenants of counties in Ireland had taken place, in main-
taining a continual correspeudence, under his (Lord Plun-
kett's) superintendence, with the Lord Lieutenants of
counties there, the assistant barristers, and the clerks of
the peace, on the various subjects connected with the ad-
ministration of justice in their respective counties. The
Treasury minute made under the late Administration, and
to which he should now refer their Lordships, was dated
September 2S, 1830. The Lords of the Treasury having
met on that day, proceeded to consider the Act of
Parliament which had been just passed relative to the
fees payable on the demise of the Crown, and he would
read an extract of the minute which they had made on
the subject. Here the Noble Lord read an extract, which
was to the effect that the Lords of the Treasury, consider-
ing the number and variety of the instruments that were
to be renewed on the demise of the Crown, did not think
it possible to fix the remuneration for each individual case,
but that they deemed it more advisable, that in all such
cases there should be a specific average rate of remunera-
tion awarded, proportionate to the amount which the per-
son making out such an instrument would be entitled to
claim under ordinary circumstances, regard being had to
the labour required in the preparation of the said instru-
ment. The minute proceeded to state, that it was the
opinion of their Lordships that in all such cases a moiety
only of the fees payable under the Act should be paid to
all such persons, as being a due and proper remuneration
for the labour performed. He (Lord Plunkett) was not
aware of the existence of the minute until he heard of it
from his Noble Friend (the Secretary for the Home De-
partment). That Noble Lord, immediately after the ac-
cession of the present Administration to office, wrote to
him (Lord Plunkett) as to the necessity for having the
commissions of the Magistrates that had expired on the
demise of the Crown renewed. In reply, he stated to
the Noble Lord that there would be no delay on the sub-
ject, but that it would be necessary for the Lords of the
Treasury to fix the remuneration for making them out.
Accordingly, his Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary for
Ireland, wrote to the Lords of the Treasury to know what
that was to be. The Lords of the Treasury then made a
minute, confirming the principle of the minute made in the
previous September, and stating that such remuneration
should be given as was sufficient to compensate the officer
for the actual time and labour employed in preparing
such instruments. Copies of these were then transmitted
to him in Ireland, and it was then fur the first time
that he was aware of their existence. On perusing them,
he had no doubt their meaning was that a moiety,--that
was to say, the one-half of those fees which had been
hitherto payable should be paid for the preparation of those
instruments, and his Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary,
had also no doubt the Act of Parliament and the Trea-
sury minutes made under it clearly and explicitly meant
that one-half of those fees should be paid. However, on
his (Lord Plunkett's) arrival last week, he found, to his
great surprise, that it was stated in another place, that it
was the opinion of the Lords of the Treasury there
should be no compensation given unless for the actual la-
bour done; and on inquiry he really found such really was
the case, and that a minute had been made by their Lord-
ships so far hick as January, 1831. The Noble Lord
having read that minute, which was to the effect he had
mentioned, proceeded to say, that if this minute had been
issued in the previous November, instead of the one that
he had already read to the House, none of the mistakes
which had taken place would have occurred. He had
given orders to have the fees to the purse-bearer and the
train-bearer discontinued, arid he had sent orders to his
secretary to demand that amount of remuneration only
which was due for the actual labour done, in accordance
with the principle laid down in the Treasury minute of
January, 1831.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord would
now see what l:e meant when he said the case had been
much altered since he had adverted to it on a former occa-
sion. He trusted he had satisfied the House that he had
acted in this matter merely under an erroneous impression,
in consequence of his not having been aware of the exist-
ence of the Treasury minute of January, 1831, and he
begged to thank the Noble Lord for having afforded him
this opportunity to make the explanation he had given to
their Lordships.
Lord LORTON said, that the Magistrates of Ireland
considered those fees both illegal and unjust.
Earl WICKLOW said he had not received an answer to
the question which he had put to the Noble and Learned
Lord,—namely, whether, under existing circumstances,
Magistrates would be willing to take up their licences?
The explanation given to his Noble and Learned Friend
afforded him at least one piece of information, as it proved
to him that the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland ought
to have been better acquainted with the subject than he
appeared to have been; otherwise he would not have
thrown out those gross aspersions on the magistracy of
Ireland which he had thought fit to do.—(Hear, hear.)
That Right Hon. Gentleman ought to have attended to the
situation of Ireland during the four weeks which had
elapsed in the recess. Why the Right Hon. Gentleman
had not done so he could not tell ; but it was a fact worthy
of notice, that it was precisely during those four weeks
that the mistake or misapprehension had occurred, and
bad he bee❑ acquainted with the circumstance, it might
have been satisfactorily arranged. If there were any thing
in the atmosphere of Leland so hot and fiery that the Right
Hon. Gentleman could not bear it—if his constitution
were not salamandrine enough to endure the climate—he
had better retire from the office, and make room for those
who would attend to its duties.
Lord PLUNKETT said, that in his opinion be bad
given a very plain answer to the interrogatory of the Noble
Lord. lie thought that the Magistrates ought to have
submitted to the inconvenience of paying their fees, what-
ever question might afterwards have arisen, and thus have
maintained their usual situation i❑ society. They should
not, on the mere allegation that justice was not done to
them as it was done to the Magistracy of England, have
abstained from paying the fees, and continuing to officiate.
Now, however, that the matter was explained by the last
Treasury minute, be did not doubt that the Magistrates
would proceed in their usual course.—(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought that the
observations which had been made with respect to the
Right Hon. the Secretary for Ireland were wholly un-
called fur. So far as he knew the Right lion. Gentle-
roan personally, or by reputation, he was the last person
who could fairly be accused of neglecting his duty.—
(Hear, hear.) There never was a Secretary for Ireland
who possessed more ability, or who, in the performance of
his duties, evinced greater zeal, application, or attention.
Lord CLONCURRY observed, that looking back to the
old time, and the old system, mere paupers were not un-
frequently elected to the magisterial authority in Inland,
fur the purpose of serving party and political purposes.
He believed that at one period about a moiety of the ma-
gistracy stood in that situation. At the demise of George
111., not more than one-third of the Magistrates paid
their fees. He was certain that no gentleman of property
and respectability would refuse to pay those fees. The
former fees, though exorbitant, were discharged ; but how