The Sun.
London, England, 1859-11-23 00:00:00

TIIE-BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY

LATVS.

DEPUTATION TO LORD PALMERS'IION.

Yesterday morning, at 11 o'clock, a deputation*
representing to a great extent the commercial in-
terests of- the' country, waited upon Lord. Palme-
rston, at Cambridge-house, for the -purposenr-suh-
mating to him the necessity of immediate legisla-
tion in reference to the present state of bankruptcy
and insolvency.
The deputation consisted of Sir J. Ramsden,
M.P., Mr. Mellor, Q.C., M.P., Sir J. Paxton, M.P.,
Mr. Biggs, M.P., Mr. Hadfield, M.P., Mr. Scho-
field, M.P., Mr. Clay; M.P., Mr. Miller, M.P.
(Leith),. Mr. Stansfeld, M.P., Mr. Beecroft, M.P.,
Mr. Craufurd, M,P., Mr. Leatham, M.P., Mr. C.
Foster, M.P., Mr. Sheridan, IMP., Mr. Soames,
M.P., Mr. L. Levi, Mr. Stebbings (Southampton),
and Mr. S. Morley; with deputations from Leeds,
Liverpool, Leicester, Southampton, Bristol, Hull,
Birmingham, Coventry, Worcester, Bradford,
Edinburgh, est Riding, Huddersfield, &c.
Lord PALMERSTON was accompanied by Sir R.
Bothell, the Attorney-General. His lordship, on
entering the room, familiarly remarked—" Well,

gentlemen, have you any more light to throw upon
this subject ?"
Sir J. RAMSDEN said that the gentlemen of whom
the deputation consisted had done him tke honour

to asklim to introduce them to his lordship. They
had sought this interview with his lordship in order
that they might point out to him the necessity for
some reform in the laws relating to bankruptcy

and insolvency. He believed that as regarded the
evils of the present system there could be no ques-
tion, for all parties wore agreed that some

tive action must be taken. -The only question- was
what form that r.ction must assume. His lordship

was aware that in the last session of the last Par'-
liament two measures were 'introduced with that

object,—one in the House of Lords by Lord Chelms-
ford, as the Lord Chancellor of the late Govern-
ment, and the other by Lord John Russell in the

House of Commons. `these measures had the same

object in view, but they proposed to accomplish
it in a very different manner. It was not necessary
that he should enter into details, but there was one

great distinction which he might point out, which
was, that while Lord Chelmsford's Bill proposed to

add another to nearly 30 statutes which were at
present in existence, Lord John Russell prcposed to
begin by repealing all the existing statutes, and to
pass a new Act which would consolidate the whole
of the laws, with that he proposed; into one general
enactment. His lordship was probably aware that

Lord John Russell did not introduce That measure

until he had consulted the great manufacturing in-
terests, chiefly of the north of England. That mea-
sure was discussed at a meeting of the Association
for the Promotion of Social Science at Liverpool

two years ago. At that time Lord John Russell
was asked to take charge, of the measure, and it had
during the present year been discussed at'Bradford
at a meeting of the same Association. At that
meeting various amendments were suggested in
order to meet the views of the commercial interests

in London and the south of England, and he believed
that the gentlemen now present were in a positions
to state that the measure, as amended, received the

support of the whole of the commercial interests
throughout the kingdom. There were present gen-
tlemen who represented a great number of manu-
facturing towns in the country. They had gentle-
men representing the commercial interests of Lon-
don, and he held in his hand a letter, addressed to
the secretary of the Association by Sir James Duke,
expressing his regret that he was unable to attend
the meeting that morning, and stating that he sym-
pathised with the object the deputation had in view.
This was only a sample of a great many other let-
ters which had been received from other members of
Parliament representing large commercial consti-
tuencies. He noticed this one particularly, as it
came from a representative of the city of London,
who was himself largely engaged in commercial
undertakings. He believed that his lordship would
also be aware that their object in'seeking an inter-
view was to press upon him the necessity of imme-
diate action in the approaching session, and the
hope that his lordship, as the head of the Govern•
ment, would give an assurance that some
measure should be introduced under the auspices of
the Government, and also the earnest hope that that
measure would be based upon the same principles,
and, as far as the Government could see fit to make
it so, would be in conformity with the Bill of Lord
John Russell introduced in the last Session of the
last Parliament. That measure received the sanc-
tion of Parliament by being read a second time, but
the dissolution prevented any further action with
regard to it.
Mr. HASTINGS, the representative of the Worces-
ter Chamber of Commerce, next addressed his lord-
ship, stating that he had taken an active part with
mercantile men throughout the country in the pre-
paration of a bill on this subject. A few years ago
a large deputation waited upon his lordship, headed
by Lord Brougham, when this subject was brought
before him. That question, therefore, had been
going on for years, and great discontent had been
manifested with regard to it am6n,g the commercial
community. There were three great and leading
evils in reference to the bankrupt system. There
was, first, the great expense of the present system.
There had been a great number of statements cir-
culated on that subject, for all of which, of course,
he could not vouch. Some persons said the expenses
in bankruptcy were 50 per cent. ; others, that they
amounted to a great deal more. He held in his
hand an abstract from the record of the official as-
signee, in which it was shown that in one case the
expenses were as much as GS per cent. ; but no
doubt That was an extreme case. He himself be-
lieved that the average expenses of bankruptcy
throughout the country were at least 30 par cent.,
and that in the cases of small estates, say £5OO, the
expenses swallowed up the whole of them. The
second evil was that of want of local jurisdiction.
Of course, the gentlemen from the city of London
present that day did not feel that inconvenience ;
but there were many important towns in the coun-
try where there were no courts—for instance,
Nottingham, Norwich Bradford, Worcester,
&c., and people had' to travel hundreds of
miles to transact business in bankruptcy ; where-
as in Scotland every town had. a court, and they
wished to see pretty much the same system esta-
blished here. The third evil, and the carlinal evil,
lying at the root of the whole matter, was that the
creditors in court were not allowed to have a suffi-
cient administration over the bankrupt's estate.
Those who sought a change in the law contended
that the property of a bankrupt belonged to the
creditors, and that they ought to have the adminis-
tration of it. The court was overwhelmed by over-
grown officials—commissioners, registrars, official
assignees, messengers, ushers, and others, who
seemed to think that the last persons to be consulted
were the creditors themselves. The whole of the
bankrupt laws seemed to be framed upon that
erroneous principle. This was the vital part of the
matter, and they asked his lordship at the head of
the Government to look to the matter, so that in any
bill which might be produced the public interests
might be consulted, and not that of any small class
of men about the courts. Several eminent mer-
chants of the city of London had been consulted
upon the matter, and they thoroughly approved the
present bill. Again, they thought that the ex-
penses of the Court of Bankruptcy should be greatly
diminished by lowering the fees, and, in order that
Government might be able to do that, they sug-
gested that pensions to officials granted so long ago
as 1831 should be charged upon the Consolidated
Fund—for they did not see why the Bankruptcy
Court should be an exception to others—and that
the pensions should be paid out of fees. Again,
every facility should be given for voluntary settle-
ment between debtors and creditors. At the same
time, that there might be no fraud, they would sug-
gest that all transactions of this kind should be
registered and be submitted for the supervision of