The Sun.
London, England, 1832-06-05 00:00:00

TITHES IN IRELAND.

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM asked what was
the state of his Majesty's Councils upon the isn
portant subject of tithes. Committees had been ap-
pointed, after prolonged discussions in both Houses of
Rirliament, but still the grievances were unredre,sed ?
Lord MELBOURNE said the Committee would, by
and by, he enabled to pr.ser.t their report on the subjec.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM asked when ?

To this question no reply was ziven.
Lord RODEN believed that the proposition of Ministers
would he hailed by the country, though it was open to
many objections.
Tl-e Marquess of LANSDOWNE said, that any [Tall
fered support on the ground of there being any altervion
of a vital principle of the Bill, he begged at once to disclaim.

. .
Several Noble Lads mide some observations on the
saute subject.
Earl RODEN presented petitions from various Orange
LotLtes, and also from the Presbytery of Newcastle-upon-
Tyne, against the Irish education system.
The Duke of SUSSEX inquired if those petitions were
from members of those lodges?
Earl RODEN said they were.
The Duke of SUSSEX felt it to be his duty, then, to
request their Lordships only to receive the petitions as
those of the individua!3 who had signed them, the
1.,,,d,Les not being legally incorporated bodies.
The LORD CHANCELLOR presented several peti-
tions i❑ favour of tl.e Reform Bill. One of the petitions
was from the Chairman, Vice-Chairman, and Council of
the Renfrewshire Political Union.
THIRD READING OF THE REFORM BILL.

The " Order of the Day " h.ving been repeatedly called,
Earl GREY rose, and moved the third reading of the
Reform Bill.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA found it necessary to
trespass for a short time once more on the attention of the
House. This night would close the first act of that
fatal and bloody tragedy into which this country was
to be plunged.—(Loud cries of Hear, hear, from the,
Opposition.) This night would terminate the existence
of the House of Lords as one branch of the legislature of
the British empire--at least the independence of that
House, anti, without its independence, the House could
no longer exist to maintain its name and
character as a British House of Parliament. Those who
might live to see the last scene of this dreadful political
act, would have to detail the downfall of Monarchy and
the overthrow of the Constitution of this country. The
judgments of the Almighty had been drawn down upon
the land; but, might those who had been instrumental in
drawing down those judgments and bringing about
the destruction of this country, live to see her insulted
laws once more vindicated ! The Constitution was now
to be sacrificed at the shrine of blighted political ambition.
When he reflected that it was a measure which would blacken
the country with every sort of crime,—leave the country
without any government except military despotism,
—uproot that Constitution which enabled the coun-
try firmly to resist all attacks which had shaken
surrounding countries—what language could he nse to ex-
pr,ss his feelings of regret upon the occasion of the closing
of such a scene ! When the Noble Earl at the head of
his Majesty's Government first entered into that office, he
felt proud in assuring hint that he would have his entire
support, upon the presumption that the Noble Earl's previous
attachment to the institutions of the country would have
catered him to have been firm in sup! orting the establish•
ed Constitution ; but how lamentably had he found him-
self mistakera! Government were to he blamed for the
state in which the country had lately been placed.—
(Cheers from the Opposition benches.) lie repeated they
were chargeable with all those disturbances which
had lately agitated the country, in not at first putting
down with the strong arm of the law those seditious
meetings which had now acquired such power. The in-
dependence of that House,after that night, would be no more.
But it grieved him much to say that it had been destroyed
by one of their own body, and one who in former times
had been one of its most distinguished Members. That
House could never more raise up its voice as an inde-
pendent part of the legislature. The democratic influence
which would now be poured into the other House, aided
by the doctrines recently promulgated, would completely
put an extinguisher on the House i❑ that character. [The
Noble Lord then read some long extracts from the speeches
of Mr. Canning against Reform.] His design in coming
down to that House after the passing of the Catholic Bill
was to support Reform to a certain extent, to such an ex -
tent as lie was sure would have satisfied the country,
and which at the same time would have been safe to
the monarchy and t! e people. But he found that the
measure introduced by the Noble Earl opposite was so
very democratic that it showed him that, without very
material alterations, he could not give it his support. And
when he heard from the Noble Earl that he would in
Committee allow no such alterations, his consistency
compelled him to use every means in his power to impede
the progress of that Bill. When the Noble Earl saw his
country placed in state of sedition—a fate which was to
follow the passing of that Bill, he would be the first to
feel, and most deeply to rue, the conduct he bad pursued :
his heart would be filled with remorse. He declaredAhat
as long as the Noble Earl was at the head of the GovAp-
ment he would never again enter that House, if the Bill
passed.
On the Noble Earl sitting down there were loud cries
of " Question," in the midst of which,
The Earl of HARROWBY rose, and said the present
state of affairs reminded him of an incident which oc-
curred in the Irish House of Commons, in which a
person addressing the Government of the diy, and re-
ceiving no answer, said, " Are we in an Irish
Senate or in the Turkish Divan ?—are we to be
strangled by mutes?" The Noble Lords on the other side
et the I-louse appeared to feel as though they were redue, d

to something like a state of degradation by their deignirto
to make no reply. He (Lord Harrowby) declared he fe
the most intense disgust at the proceedings which had taker:
pace; and although he had been silent on other occasions
the duty which he owed to their Lordships compelled his
to address them upon the condition in which they we,
placed, arid the consequences of this measure. He h rl
often stated. and he would not refrain from repeating the
assertion, that the mere introduction of that !ensure
struck the severest blow against the independence of the
hereditary branch of the Legislature which it had eve,
sustained. When it was a second time introduced int.
the other House of Parliament, and a second time adopted,
the blow came with redoubled force; but he yet entert lined
a confident hop., that such amendments might have been
introduced as, without trenching on the principles of the
me sure, might have rendered it comparatively innoxiou-
-such amendments as would have enabled these who in
that House str•nuously opposed it, to vote for the third
reading, without inconsistency. For example, if double
representatives had been given to the boroughs contained
in schedule B, there would still have been left a better
(thane, for the admission of men of unquestionable talent
and character, who might le: unwilling to face the trouble
and expense of offering themselves to large constituencies.
All history had proved that the most efficient and valuable
Members of the other House of Parliament were members
of the class most unwilling to present themselves to popu-
lar places. He had further flettered himself that the
places in schedule C would have been left as originally
intended. He used the word intended, because lie bore
in mind the expressed intentions of the promoters of the
measure. And be likewise expected that schedule D
might have le en altogether dispensed with, as well as that
some of the metropolitan districts might have been cause-
lidated, so a, to give two additional Members to Middle-
sex, anti to give two representatives to the rarieultural
districts of Lancash.re. Thus many of the painful conse-
quences, the beats and animosities which arose from there
bring but single Members to different pl xes, might lie
avoided. He had not himself at any time a very strong
ebjectien to the 10/. franchise, provided the other parts of
the Bill were rendered unobjectionab'e ; though the Noble
Earl himself Arnim d that the amount of that franchise
did by no means form a principle of the Bill. Still it
might have been retained without drawing too largely on
the consistency of those by whom the Bill was generally
opposea, provided it were to te. regulated by the payment
of taxes, the valuation for the poor-rates, and residence—
thus adopting the principle of the Noble Earl himself,
that of securing the most independent and respectable
Indy of electors which the country could supply. lie
had hoped that at least such a scheme would have been
adopted or at least would have been allowed to he discussed
by an independent House of Lords—(Hear, hear, from the
Tories)—hut that hope had been defeated by the
speech of the Noble Eat] opposite, who, when he
was asked if he would permit certain alterations,
replied that he would pay every attention to them, and
that the decision of ttern was in the hands of their Lord.
ships. He (Lord II.) now asked, was the decision in
their hands? True it was, they might discuss, and they
might be tattle to decid, ; but they could only decide
one way, for if they decided the other tray,
there was an end to their freedom.—(Heir, hear, from
the Opposition.) When the Noble Earl had been accused
of advising the Crown to an extraordinary exercise of the
prerogative, he stated what the case was on which such
necessity arose. He stated it was an evil, and justified
on'y by a great case of necessity. What was that ne-
cessity ? It was the case of collision—of hopeless colli-
sion between the two Houses of Parliament, on a point
in which the people supported one House against the other.
There was one expression of the Noble Earl's which was
to he found in that record of the proceedings, which
Members of Parliament have universally resorted to
whenever it became necessary to refer to former speeches,
and with that record before him he hesitated not to say
that the sentiments imputed to the Noble Earl were
folly borne out by his words. I°, however, instead of
resting upon that generally received record, he (Lord IL)
I depended upon his own recollection, ho would say that it
furnished him with !menage much stronver than that at-
tributed to the Noble Earl by the publication before him.
He had a distinct remembrance of the assurance given to
the House, that its independence would not be violated
without a fresh aepeal to the people distinctly resting !Ton
the question of Reform. Those were the means which the
Noble Earl proposed for preventing that species of collision
between the Houses of Parliament which alone was to be
ara rehended, and which alone, upon the showing of the
Noble Esrl himself, justified the alternative which he pro-
posed. He would then ask their Lordships, did not
the statement and admission of the Noble Earl bind
him to wait for the purpose of seeing whether
she necessity would or would not arise ? It was a
gross misrepresentation to say that Noble Lords had
at any time contemplated alterations which would
hive so altered the Rill as to make it what it was a-
serted it would be—a mockery if sent down to the M use
of Commons in that st rte. SO far learn such a probability
at all existing, the Bill would have gone down to them with
a preamble not materially changed, and occupying the
place which preambles usually did. They would find
schedule A the first of the schedules, and not materially
changed. They would find the greater part of the other
schedules, occupying similar situations to those in which
they were originally placed, without their character being
in any great degree altered. Ia fact the Bill would not
have undergone any changes beyond whet are frequent in
the business of legislation in this country. It surely could
be no matter of importance to the other House of Parlia-
ment if a motion were entertained and agreed to for the
postponement of schedule A; of what importance could it
possibly be to the House of Corium:Ls that one part of the
Bill was discussed and arranged before another, provided
the whole were returned to that House in such a condition
as would sot justify the assertion that it was ess,ntially or
fundami ntally altered ? He believed he should be fully
borne out in the stem' nt, that net above two or
three Nubile Lords in that Howe were adverse to the
whole of schedule A, and, therefore, he was warranted in
assuming that the Bill might have been returned to the
Commons with its more important principles unimpaired.
He protested with perfect sincerity that if any man had told
; im it would he viewed in any other light by the Noble
Earl, he should have rejected it as a base calumny on him,
and done his utmost to vindicate his character. As to what
had passed since, he could scarcely express himself with
decency. He did not wish to use severe phrases : he could
riot call it a party manoeuvre, but lie could not but state
that the opinion of the country must have been foreseen.
• He did not envy the success of the Noble Eel.---(Loud
cheers from the Opposition.) He did not envy a triumph
obtained in such a c :use, and by such means. The
Noble Earl had trampled on the Crown—(Load and
continued cheers from the Opposition)—and had fostered
a power that would ultimately trample on himself and his
• celleagues—(Loud cheers from the Opposition)—and it
was the furthest from his wish that the Noble Earl and
himself should live to see the consrquences of this Bill.
Unless some steps were taken to vindicate the conduct of
any Government—it was not the Government of the No-
ble Earl in particular he alluded to,—but if they were to
live subject to the despotism of Political Unions—(Loud
cheer; from the Opposition benches)—if those means
were not checked, which had achieved the present
work, and which, if applied, might achieve any
work, the Noble Lord would succeed in rendering
it impossible not only for himself and his colleagues, but
for any other Government whatever to carry on the con-
cerns of the country. He was perfectly persuaded that
when the Noble Earl felt anxious to dam up the torrent
which he had let loose, he would not fled workmen
enough to accomplish the undertaking. By the manner in
which the present Bill had been carried through, the whole
individual responsibility of the evil or good resulting from
it rested on his Majesty's Ministers: they it was who
had brought their: into their present station, and he prayed
to God that his anticipations as to the result might not
be realized. When the Noble Earl and his colleagues had
passed all their Bills, he trusted they would give their
attention to the means by which the tranquillity of the
country might be insured. But he looked much more to
the people than to the Ministers ; he relied on the elastic
power of that great good sense which had carried the
people of England through so many dangers. Let the
Government, however, beware ! They had administered
poison, no doubt, to a strong stomach ; but however
strong that stomach might be, if it were administered day
by day, and hour by hour, it was nu t in humanity to resist
its noxious power. Be the results, however, what they
might, the opponents of the Bill heti the satisfaction of
feeling they had done their .duty.—(Cheers.)
Earl GREY—" My Lords, after the speech of the
Noble Earl (Herrowby), it is impossible for me to sit
silent—(hear, hear)-1 speech made for the purpose,
is it should seem, not so much of vindicating himsell
as of making an attack on the conduct of his Ma-
jesty's Government.—(Hear, hear, hear.) My Lords,
I am willing to bear all the attacks which that Noble Lord
has made upon me on this occasion. I will answer him as
I can—(Hear, hear)—and 1 trust I shall be acquitted
in the opinion of the present generation—(Cheers)—and
of that posterity, to which the Noble Earl appeals—(Lours
t:lieers)—from any indirect motive—from any sinister
view of an ill-regulated ambition—from any design what-
,Ner unconnected with a sense of duty and a sincere
desire to promote the interests of my country, in the line
if conduct whi h I have hitherto pursued.—(Cheers.)—
I say, my Lords, that I trust to that posterity for a vin-

dication of the motives that have induced me to ben t I
forward a measure which, in my conscience, I believe to b.
founded on principles consistent with the ancient institu•
tiona of the country—necessary for the removal of thee
abuses by which that Constitution has been impaired, am
above all, necessary for the prevailing sentiments of the
public mind, which, without it, had alienated the confident
of the people from the Government of the country.—
(Cheer-.) That necessity, my Lords, I did not create—
(Cheers)—and whether in the conduct of the• oleo
sure there has hen any thing of indiscretion of
of a skilful party manoeuvre, I leave to those to judge who
.
have witnessed the course of proceedings.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) My Lords, although the commencement et
the Noble Lord's attack was the most extraordinary,
I tee!, I confess, the least anxiety about it. Ht
complained of us on this side of the House as a
parcel of mutes, who without saying a word were dis-
posed to strangle the Constitution. My Lords, cnn-.
siderine the speech of the Noble Eal as one of
deelai
nation, if I did not take notice of it at
Ali I should subject myself to the appell ition of a
mute—(Hear, hear)—l should rather consider it oe-
cootary to apolorize for having troubled your Lorilehips
too often, anti at too great length on former occasions.—
(Hear, hear.) I wished to address myself to the measure
before the House ; but that measure has been so long before
you, so repeatedly discussed in all its principles,
on the grounds on which it rests, and the motive which
prompted its introduction into this House, in all its views
and bearings, that really it is unnecessary to trouble your
Lordships with the particular merits of it. But the N able
Earl has made a personal remark, charging toe with some
degree of inconsistency as a Member of this House and a
servant of the King. The Noble Earl who opened the
debate seemed to regret that I had forsaken the principles
and opinions of the Order to which I belting. I may,
my Lords, have mistaken my course. I may have
misjudged the means of effecting the objects which
I had in view; but I solemnly declare before your
Lordships and my country, and I expect some credit
with the public in this declaration, that in the measure
before your Lordships the importance of the Constitution
of the country his been acknowledged, and that I, sincerely
attached to it, have endeavoured to support it to the ut-
most of my power.—(Loud cheers ) But these are times
and seasons, my Lord-, when something more is required
than a mere declaration of admiration in the insti-
ores and attachment to the different branches of the
Legislature as they now stand.—(Loud cheers.) My
Lord II icon says--" time is the parent of abuses, and
time is perpetually making changes ;" and int! Lords, my
opinion is, that the Constitution of our country, beautiful
as it was in theory, beneficial as it was in practice, had
buffeted corruptions and abuses which the public felt in a
degree pet-hal s even beyond their real extent, and
the time was come when that remedy could no longer
be withlield.—(Loud cheers.) This, my Lords, was
the situation in which I found mys'tlf placed when
his Majesty was most graciously pleased to call
fur my services. M) opinions were known—(hear)
I had frequently avowed thetn.—(Cheere)--sand with
these opinions sincerely fixed in my heart—(Cheers)—
with these opinions receroly declared and confirmed by all
that I knew of the state of the country, was it not for me,
when called into his Majesty's Councils, to think of making
them the foundation of my continued public course of con-
duct?.-(Cheers.) I stated these principles to my Sovereign as
the conoition on which I took office—they were accepted.
But it is said I have proposed a Reform much too extensive.
My Lords, I have exercised my faculties according to the
reason which God has given me—(Cheers)—and the ne-
cessity of a Reform being admitted, its extent was to be
determined; and here I must again beg leave to state that
the principle on which I acted was this, that the making a
measure of 11 •forin our great object was that it should
give general satisfaction, that it should set at rest public
opinion, arid prevent tiny further agitation on the subject.
—(Cheers.) But the Noble Earl has been pleased to
characterise this as the first act of a bloody tragedy in
which, thank God, no blosd has yet been shed.—(Cheers.)
It is a little too much for the Noble Earl, differing from
me only in degree, to pronounite every censure, as lie has
done, against this measure. My Lards, a Bill was intro-
dueed list Session,
and which unfortunately, was not car-
ried. I say unfortunately, bee ruse I think it that objec-
tion had not been male, it is possible the question might
have been settled long since on satisfactory grounds, and the
country relieved from that dangerous suspense and agita-
tion, which it has been subjected to.—(Lowl cheers.) It
was then for us to consider whether we should attempt to
bring forward another measure of the same sort, or aban-
don office. I can assure your Lordships that a desire to
retain office was not in the minds of any of my colleagues.
I am sure it formed no one particle of consideration with
tne—(Hear)—and we thought it our duty, whilst a hope
remained—a hope which I certainly thought a proper
hope, from the deepest conviction, which my country has
confirmed, that an opinion universal throughout the king-
dom could not long exist without being pirticipated in by
this House—it was under these circumstances that we felt
we nitut endeavour to bring forward and carry another
measure, as I stated before, not less efficient than the last.
Such a measure was introduced, altered in many material
pointe, with a view to conciliate those who had objected to
the firmer Bill. On discussion it passed a second reading
by a very small majority. It was carried into Committee,
and here begins the charge of the Noble Earl which
he attempts to fasten on us, first of having departed
from the principles I had professed, and secondly of
having taken up a point in itself of no material
consequence. My Lords, the way in which the Noble
Earl accuses me of having departed from the statements
I had made, if I understood hint rightly, is that on one
discussion that took place on the usefulness of his Ala-
jesty's prerogative of making Peers, I had stated that a large
creation for the purpose of carrying any particular mea-
sure was in itself an evil, and not to he resorted to, but in a
case of great emergency. . And that th it emergency to
which I addressed myself would be a collision betweenthis
House and the Commons. It is certainly difficult to recollect
on all occasions all that one states, but what I believe I
said was flak
that if the House of Commons persevered in
maintaining its opinion upon an important question in op-
position to this House, and after an appe ii to the people
there should not appear any likelihood that the conduct of
that House would be changed, the emergency would then
arise.—(Hear, hear.) That appeal bad been made—the
emergency hail taken place upon an appeal distinctly and
that grountl—(immense cheers)—and I think there is no
man with common candour who would admit that it a
dissolution at that time had taken place, it would have
had the effect of producing a House of Commons still
more favourable to Reform than that which before
existed Well then, the emergency arose, and, accord-
ing to the best writers, the prerogative might be resorted
to by the Crown. The Noble Earl will recollect that on
the first Regency Bill this Prerogative was much discussed,
arid that it was then contended by the greatest constitu-
tional authorities in the Ilouse of Commons that it was
agreeable to the constitution of the country that the
Crown should exert its prerogative to prevent the House
of Lords from trampling on the Constitution and on the
country.—(Cheers.) My Lords, this then, was no new
doctrine, hut the emergency which had arisen was new.
But is it prudent—is it conduct to be expected,
still less is it to be exacted from a public man, that he is
to wait till actual change arises before he acts ?--(Cheers.)
Why, if I raw danger approaching, prudence, discretion,
and every duty that is sacred and imposed on the character of
public servant, would cause me to adopt the best means
I could think of for preventing its approach.—(Loud
cheers.) And, seeing as I dtd the course of public
events—the state of public feeling—it appeared to me
that there was no other line of conduct left
for me to adopt, than that of tendering my resignation,
unless means could .be afforded to me of preventing that
result which seemed to be the inevitable consequence of
tee fate of this measure being similar to that of the former
Bill."—(Loud cheers.) He would now come to the:Noble
Earl's notice of the first point on which the House had
divided in Committee. it was asserted that was no ques-
tion of principle. To decide between those who held
this opinion and the contrary, he would leave to all im-
partial observers. This, however, must be acknowledged,
that if they had conceded the point then demanded, they
must have resigned to the enemies of the measure the whole
conduct of the Bill. That, he felt, was inconsistent with
every principle be had ever professed, and he was resolved
at all hazards to resist it. He did this from no vain pride,
front no morbid sense of personal dignity. The Noble
Etta then enlarged on the injurious consequences of rotten
boroughs ; he denied that the House of Cognition! worked
well iii practice—that it failed in producing confidence
between itself and the people, the representatives and the
represented ; contending. that the main principle of the
Bill was the disfranchisement of rotten boroughs, from
which no consideration could induce him to swerve.
Neither could he ever consent to any change in the order
of proceeding which hat for its object to limit the die-
franchisement. The first motion Unit made in the Com.
mittee was made without any previous communication
to him, and when its purport was stated to hint for
the first time in that House, he felt instantly that it was
a proposition which, if agreed to, must prove fatal to
the Bill. This motion was brought forward by those
who were shocked and indignant at the notion of
t party trick.—(Hear, hear.) He imputed nothing to
this; he only sought to defend himself; and he owned
that, to his mind, no other course presented itself except-
ing that he bad pursued. Under these circumstances, he

~.

had only two courses open to him—to resign, or to offer
the advice against which the Noble Earl inveighed. Tha
advice he humbly tendered, and as it was not adopted, he,
with the utmost gratitude for past favours, entreated his
Majesty to accept his resignation. Was that trampline
on the Crown or the House of Lords ? Was it not, on the
contrary, abiding by that principle even dearer to Imrri
than his heart's blood, for he believed it necessary to the
security of the country? Noble Lords had charged him
with a determin &on to force the Bill without any altera-
tion ; he could assure them, that so far from such a wish,
he had been throughout willing to attend to all objection•
in the Committee, which would not affect the principles
or the efficiency of the Bill. He then proceeded to defend
the metropolitan clause, the 101. franchise, and to express a
confident hope, that when the Bill should have been read a
third time, public repose and general satisfaction would b'
its sure consequences. Should it be necessary to say more in
its defence, he would leave it in the hands of those whose
strength was less impaired than his, and he, would
respass no more on their Lordships. What might be
the result of the Reform Bill it was not for man to decide,
hut in the present state of the country, they might be
web assured it was impossible to avoid Reform. If Re-
form did not come in due time from within, it would come
with a vengeance from without. The public mind had
been so long bent upon it, that he believed there was no
Noble Lord in that House who could conscientiously say
there was not the greatest dancer in delaying it. He con •
tended, that although the nomination boroughs were de-
stroyed, the great interests of the country would all be
adequately represented ; the agricultural, the commercial,
the manufacturing, and the colonial interests. It had
been over and over agan said, that much excitement pre-
vailed; but be would appeal to the House whether he or
his friends had been guilty, of creating that excitement.
He hoped the time was at hand when repose would suc-
ceed to that excitem. nt : he hoped that a new era was at
hand, and he anticipated that the Nimble Earl opposite
would ire amongst the first to rejoice at the falsification of
his own gloomy forebodings. Amongst the advantages
which he anticipettel from the spe dy adoption of the
measure, was that Political Unions would no longer
exist. He felt as fully as any Noble Lord in that
House that they could not cc-exist with any well-
regulated or efficient Government ; but he did not
look to the sante me ins for putting an end to them
which seemed to he in the c ntemplation of some
Members of that House. The Noble Earl on the other
side probably remembered the associations which were
formed in this country at the close of the American war;
he could not fail to remember that they transacted busi-
ness by means of delegates, and that they were in constant
correspondence with each other ; and that when the ex-
citing cause was removed, the societies disappeared at the
same time. So lie expected it would be with the Asso-
ciations to which the necessity for Reform had given rise.
One of the results of the Reform Bill would be, to ex-
tinguish those societies. He then proceeded to defend
himself from the imputation of any feeling but that of the
most disinterested desire for the public good ; at his 'time
of life, he could feel no personal interest; and he believed
there could be no !man in the country aware of his own
relation to society at I rrge, who could feel otherwise than
anxious for the public ; the humblest mechanic in the
land had the seine ioterest in its well-being that he had,
and he made no doubt that every class of the community
would see the expediency of instantly returning to that
peace and good order, without which they could riot hope
to enjoy' that prosperity which, he trusted, would soon,
and her a period of long duration, fall to our lot. He wou'd
then say that the measure of Reform, so far from being
revolutionary, was, in the highest degree, conservative.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE gave the Noble Earl full credit
for the uprightness of his intentioua and the purity of his
motives, but yet accused his policy as tending wantonly to
put the public affairs in jeopardy. He complained that
that House had been deprived of its independence. He
contended, that if the sense of tire country could now once
more be taken upon the subject, it would be found that
the great body of the property, the intelligence, and the
character of the country, were opposed to it. He denied
the interpretation put upon his own former speech by the
Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government, and
contended for that of his Noble Friend (Lord Harrowby);
and he strenuously maintained, that no collision had arisen
between the two Houses of Parliament. The Noble Earl
had said that the intention of making the motion which
his Noble and Learned Friend had male in the Committee
was a secret to hint. On his (Lord Wharneliffe's) part
he could say, that nothing which be had previously heard
had induced him to believe that the Noble Earl would
consider the success of that motion to he conclusive with
respect to his continuance in office. Whatever else might
be a secret to the Noble Earl, the feelings which he (Lord
WhJrneriffe) and his Noble friends entertained with respect
to the Bill could be no secret to him. What could they do
other than that which they had done ? From the time at
which the Noble Earl declared in his speech on the second
reading of the Bill that the Bill was in the hands of their
Lordship., he thought that propositions for amending the
Bill in the Committee would he dispassionately received
and considered. And ire had also thought the Noble Lords
opposite were disposed to go a great way with them in
amending the Bill. What he and his Noble Friends had
been trying to do was to make the Bill sater and more
satisfactory to the majority of the community. But as
his Noble Friend had justly said, the Noble Earl had
made use of the result of the motion of his Noble and
Learned Friend with great skilfulness, as if the destruc-
tion of the Bill had been previously concerted. No such
concert had, however, existed. With respect to the re-
cent proceedings in the Committee, he (Lord Wharncliffe)
having voted for the second reading of the Bill on the
ground that it was susceptible of beneficial alteration in
the Committee, had felt it his duty to attend in the Com-
mittee, and endeavour to improve the Bill as much as
possible. They all knew the result, and the determina-
tion evinced by the Noble Lords opposite riot to give up a
single point of tire measure. Looking back at the
whola of the proceedings, he could not take to himself
any blame for the share which he haul had in them.
Before the debate on his Noble and Learned Friend's
motion in the Committee, he had told a Noble Duke,
a member of his Majesty's Government, his Noble
and Learned Friends intention. But if the Commit-
tee bad not decided in favour of Lis Noble and Learned
Friend's motion, it was po-silile that they would have
decided against his Majesty's Ministers on schedule B ; and
that would have brought their Lordships into still greater
collision with the Howie of Commons. Every thing
proved that whatever might have been the nature of any
amendment proposed in the Committee, the proposition
would have been in vain. He hoped, however, that when
the Bill was passed, the Noble. Lords opposite would
really turn their attention to the state of the country.—
The Noble Earl had admitted that the systematic operation
of Political Unions would he inconsistent with the good
Government of the country. Ile (Lord Wharncliffe),
however, very much doubted whether the settlement of
this question would have the effect of putting an end to
the Political Unions. When the Catholic Bill was going
through the House, one of the great arguments in its fa
your was, that it would put an end to the agitation which
existed in Ireland ; yet, frotn the period of the passing of
Ova measure, Ireland haul been in constant agitation.—
Having become conscious of their power, he doubted whe-
ther the Political Unions would be disposed to relinquish
it, or to break up th it machinery which had proved ao
effective in the attainment of their object. On the con-
trary, he looked to see a House of Commons elected under
the influence of the Political Unions, and of the press.--
Nothing, however, was so dangerous as political prophecy ;
and he would, therefore, express his earnest hope with the
Noble Earl, that after the heats and animosities which the
discussion of this measure had occasioned had subsided,
beneficial consequences might be the result. He could
not but confess that he looked with great apprehension
to what he conceived was the danger of lodging a prepon-
derant power in the bands of one part of the community ;
but he trusted that his fears would prove groundless, and
that the measure would be productive of all the public ad-
vantage which the Noble Earl anticipated from it.
The question " That the Bill be now read a third
time" was then put front the Woolsack. The Lord Chan-
cellor declared that he thought the contents had it ; but
a -Noble Lord (we believe the Earl of Roden) stating
that time not-contents had it, strangers were ordered to
withdraw.
Although there could be no rational doubt as to the re-
sult of the division, yet considerable agitation prevailed
among the excluded strangers, until they were informed
that the nutnbera (no Proxies we understood having been
presented) were, as follows :
Contents
Not-contents

Majority

As soon as the decision of their Lordships was commu-
nicated to the people assembled in Palace-yard, they rent
the air with shouts, which were distinctly heard in the
House. . . .

On our re-admission, we found the LORD CHAP•
CELLOR proposing several verbal amendment in the Bill,
which, after• a brief conversation, were adopted.

The questiln " that this Bill do pass," was then put
and agreed to.
A number of Noble Lords immediately surrounded Ell I
Grey, and appeared to be congratulating him on the suc-
cessful termination of his arduous labours.
The Bills on the table were then forwarded in their

respective stages ; and at a few minutes after ten &clod
their Lordships adjourned.