The Sun.
London, England, 1859-08-06 00:00:00

right to throw out these observations for the consideration
of the house. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. ELPHINSTONE was glad to see abillintroduced
at last on the subject, and if it was not in its present shape
all that they might desire, he hoped it would be made so.
He thought it a good system to send the marines to garrison
the naval ports. With regard to the continuance system, it
was his opinion that it had never been properly tried. No
man ought to be made a continuance service man who was
not an able seaman. Impressment, he believed, was gone for
ever, and that would remove a cloud which hung heretofore
over'the'saalor's mind. If the Admiralty followed the recom-
mendation of the royal commission they would remove most
of the objections which sailors felt on entering the navy.
The hon. gentleman, in reference to punishment in the
navy, stated that in the East India Company's fleet, on
board which he served from 1819 to 183.5, discipline had
been effectively maintained by the adoption of a system
which was at once firm but just. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. CARDWELL said that the system of continuance
had not yet had a fair trial. The object of that system was
to keep men who had acquired a'knowledge of naval gun-
nery on board the fleet. When they had it in evidence
that 60,000 British seamen were engaged on board Ameri-
can vessels precaution should be taken, if possible, to pre-
serve these men for their own fleet. The continuance
system was recommended by men of the highest authority
in 1852. In 1853 it was first carried into effect ; and the
manning commission stated that so far as it had been
carried out it was successful. The most successful
part of that system was the training of boys for the navy
in the training ships. The boys of the merchant service
and the Queen's service were trained in the same ship,
which promoted a good feeling between both. With regard
to the coast-guard service, they found that it was inade-
quate even for revenue purposes. But the 12,000 men of
which that service consisted was important in other re-
spects, and was valuable as a force which would not only
enable them to commence a war, but to continue a war when
commenced. If the system proposed was carried into effect
they would have a reserve, first of the coast-guard service,
then of 30,000 men from the merchant service, and that at
so small an expense that it was not worth being taken into
consideration in. comparison of the results to be obtained.
(Hear.) Let them begin with boys, accustom them early
to pay and pension, let them abolishthe system of impress-
ment, and he believed that in a short period, and at a com-
paratively small expense, the whole naval population of the
country would take a pleasure in the navy, and be practised
in the system of naval gunnery. He believed they would
have a naval force which would make them completely safe
and secure. (Hear, hear.)
The house then went into committee, and the first three
clauses were agreed to.
CONSOLIDATED FUND (APPROPRIATON) BILL.
The Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill to apply a
sum out of the Consolidated Fund, and the surplus of ways
and means, to the service of the year 1859, and to appro-
priate the supplies granted in this session of Parliament,
was read a first time.
WAYS AND MEANS.
The house then went into a committee of ways and
means.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in the
absence of Mr. Laing, moved the following resolution :
" That, towards raising the supply granted to her Majesty,
in lieu of the stamp duties contained in the schedule to the
act passed in the 55th year of the reign of King George the
Third, chapter 184, and now payable upon probates of wills
and letters of administration in England and Ireland, and
upon inventories to be exhibited and recorded in any com-
missary Court in Scotland, where the estate and effects
for or in respect of which such probate or letters of admi-
nistration shall be granted, er whereof such inventory shall
be exhibited or recorded, shall be of the,value of one mil-
lion pounds or upwards, there shall be charged and paid
the following duties respectively (that is to say) :—For
every £lOO,OOO of the whole value of such estate and effects,
and any fractional part of £lOO,OOO, where the deceased
shall have left any will or testament, or testamentary dis-
position, of his personal or moveable estate and effects, the
stamp duty of £1,500; and where the deceased shall not
have left any such will or testament, or testamentary dis-
position, the stamp duty of £2,250.
The following bills were severally read a third time and
passed :—Probates and Letters of Administration (Ireland)
Bill ; Police (Counties and Boroughs) Law Amendment
Bill ; Turnpike Trust Arrangements Bill , Chief Superin-
tendent (China) Bill ; and Speaker of the Legislative
Council (Canada) Bill.
The Poor Law Boards (Payment of Debts) Bill passed
lirough committee pro forma.
The house suspended its sitting until six o'clock,

The house resumed at six o'clock.
BODMIN ELECTION COMPROMISE.
The CLERK having read the order of the day for the ad-
journed debate, and the order for Dr. Michell's attendance
in his place, •
Sir G. GREY said that the hon. member for Bodmin
could not be supposed to have any knowledge of what had
taken place the day before. It was not proper for any
member to derive his knowledge of what took place in the
house from the publicyrints, and the object of desiring the
hon. member's attendance was to enable him to hear the
charge, and he would therefore suggest that the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield should repeat his statement.
Mr. ROEBUCK was quite prepared to do so. He had
stated that a petition had been presented against the return
of the hon. member for Bodmin, that the petition charged him
with corrupt practices; he had said also that the petition was
withdrawn, and hal been withdrawn in consideration that
the hon. gentleman would at the end of the session apply for
the Chiltern Hundreds, and retire from the house.
Dr. MICHELL said he held in his hand an order direct-
ing him to attend at five, and he was in his place in obe-
dience to it. He had to apologise to the.hon. and learned
member for Sheffield for not having attended to the note
which he had received from him : " I intend at six this
evening to bring under the notice of the house a report
which has reached me, that you have entered into an en-
gagement to retire from the house at the end of the session,
in consideration that the petition presented against your
return should be withdrawn. I should not like to make the
statement, you being absent. I hope, therefore, it may be
possible for you to be present.—l am, &c., J. A. ROE-
..BUCK." He was in the library when the statement was
made, and knew nothing of the matter until he returned
home at ten minutes to seven, when he found the letter,
and it was then too late, as the hour named was six o'clock.
If the honourable and learned member for Sheffield had
come to him and asked for an explanation of the whole
thing, he would have had no occasion to trouble
the house or to have got him into that difficulty.
His explanation would have been that he acted
perfectly right in justice to himself and to others.
He was not a person of sufficiently affluent means to resist
a petition in that house. (Hear, hear.) If there was any
fault, it was in the rules of the house, which rendered it
impossible for any man of small means to retain a seat in
the house if any person chose to present a petition against
him. (Hear.) He had means sufficient to keep him in re-
spectability, but he could not afford to spend £3,000 or
£4,000 in bringing witnesses up some 300 miles. Under
such circumstances, if he had allowed the petition to go on,
and had defended himself against the charges made against
him, he would have placed himself in difficulties for the
whole of his future life. (Hear, hear.) If he had had a
large fortune he would have fought it, or if the house would
bear him out in the expense he would not strike—(hear,
hear)—but he was not going to ruin himself and those
dependent on him. He appreciated the honour of a seat
in the house, but not to the ruin of himself and those
who depended on him. On that ground, and on that ground
alone, he had assented to the arrangement. He had at
first thought the petition was a joke ; like all the rest, it
charged bribery, corruption, and everything. On the prin-
ciple of the old lawyer, by harging everything it was sure
to catch you in something. (Laughter.) The petition was
so general, he thought there was nothing at all in it ; but
when he found they were determined to persevere he told Mr.
Wyld that he did not intend, and he never had intended to
defend his seat. The house would bear in mind that since
the petition was presented he had not taken part in a single
division. (Hear, hear.) He admitted he fully intended to
resign his seat after he found it was intended to follow up the
petition, but he would solemnly assert there was no sort of
corrupt compromise. The only compromise was this—his
object was that the petitioners should come forward and by
withdrawing the petition withdraw all charges against him :
but if he had allowed the petition to go to a committee
and declined to defend his seat, it would be said he did not
defend it because he was afraid to do so, and he would be
obliged to submit to the imputation that all the charges
were true. He thought it was a better plan—not knowing
that he was offending against any rule of the house—that
they should exonerate him from all charges, and that he
should resign his seat. Under these circumstances he left
it to the house to judge of the principle on which he acted.
(Hear, hear.) He left it in their hands. (Hear, hear.) He
could not afford to fight the petition, but if any one would
back him in the expense, he would fight it to the last.
(" Hear,hear," and cheers.)
No other hon. member having risen to address the house,
The SPEAKER put the question on Mr. Roebuck's re-
solution.
After a division had been called for,
Lord JOHN MANNERS rose, but was Called to order.
The house divided—
For the motion . 30
Against
The following members voted in the minority :
Burrell, Sir C., Bt. Ingestre, Viscount Tollemache, J. H.
Dickson, Col. McEvoy, E. Torrens, R.
Disraeli, Benjamin Mowbray, Rt. Hn. J. Vance, John
Elmley, Viscount Noble, J. • Vansittart, Wm.
Elphinstone, Sir J. Northcote, Sir S. H. Whiteside, Rt Hn J.
Gard, R. S. Pakenham, Col. Whitmore, H.
Gdrnett, W. J. Paull, H. Williams, T. P.
Hadfield, Geo. Sclater-Booth, G. Williams, W.
Hennessy, J. P. Seymour, Digby TELLERS.
Hopwood, J. T. 'Smith, A. Roebuck, J. A.
Hurne, W. Tite, Wm. Griffith, C. D.
INDUSTRIAL MUSEUM (SCOTLAND.)
On the bringing up of the report,
Mr. BLACK called the attention of the Government to the
injury sustained by the Industrial Museum of Scotland
through a misunderstanding between the Board of Education
and the Board of Works, and moved that the Treasury be re •
quested to interfere between the contending parties, that
proper buildings might at length be erected on the site se-
cured 10 years ago. A large sum, nearly £lO,OOO, had been
granted, and not a stone laid of this building. It was only
through the quiescence of the Scotch temper that this
matter had not long ere this been complained of.
Mr. FITZROY was happy to inform the hon. gentleman
that plans were immediately to be prepared, and that as
soon as these plans were completed the building would be
proceeded with.
The motion was withdrawn.
THE SHIPPING INTEREST.
Mr. LINDSAY rose to call the attention of the house to
the present state of the shipping interest, and to inquire of
the President of the Board of Trade if the Government (in
conformity with the recommendations of select committees)
intended to adopt any measures to relieve shipowners from the
payment of light dues, passing tolls, and local charges, and
to remove the burdens and restrictions which still fettered
maritime enterprise. He said that as to some of the matters on
which
now
dohesoh, abdutinwtenaitduednttilotthreonubexlet
stheseshioonu,swe,hheenshoeusldonuot
move for a committee of inquiry. But on the subjecth should
theld
light dues there was no need for further inquiry, and he
would therefore submit the matter to the attention of hon.
members. A committee of that house had reported on the
head of
atnhdeinGothvearnt Sna-ereyntconmittee the noble lord at the
tolls for passing lights ought
had reported that tashAegaaitnax,
had moved a resolution that the
passingnot to fall on the shipping. So
again, on the subject oftolls, a select committee
shipping interest ought not to be
onrotrahe subject
shipowners re-
ceivedbeadevaaunsetaigtew.
subject been fully in-
-9f local charges,
charged,no
a committee had reported. The sub
iNyto state what
eyooastrisgeatthede,yainndtetnhdeedGotoveadrnmopten,
and
oduwelhhteth:
they were pre-
pared to follow out the recommendations of select com-
mittees.
Mr. CRAWFORD wished to know what were the inten-
tions of the Government with regard to the disposal of the
fund which had accumulated under the Merchant Shipping
Act, 1864. This fund now amounted to £384,000.--au accu-
roulationwhich could not have been foreseen by the framers
of the act. He also wished to call attention to the ergaendi-
ture of money on life boats. He thought that, seeing the