The Sun.
London, England, 1866-02-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF COMMONS-THIS DAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at two o'clock.
CATTLE PLAGUE BILL.
Sir G. GREY moved the second reading of this bill.
(LEFT SITTING.]

HOUSE OF LORDS—LAST EVENING.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

LIFEBOATS.

The Earl of MALMESBURY gave notice that on
Friday next he would call the attention of the house to
the present inefficient supply of lifeboats on the coast.
SALE OF LAND BY .A IiCTION BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he considered
the measure a use:ul one, but thought that it was suscept-
ible of improvement in some of the clauses, which might
be made before going into committee.
Lord CHELMSFORD approved of the bill as likely to
remedy an evil which was admitted to exist under the pre-
sent system.
Lord KINGSDOWN, who was very imperfectly heard,
was understood to say that he thought legislation on this
subject was necessary, and would support the present
measure as a movement in the right direction.
Lord ST. LEONARDS, who brought in the bill, said
that it provided the machinery requisite for effecting its
object, namely, of securing bona fide bidders at these
auctions, and by that means terminating the present
defects of the law by which bidders were allowed an
opportunity of running up the price at which an estate
was sold. The privileges possessed by auctioneers were
injurious to the capitalist, and the sooner they were got
rid of the better.
The bill was then read a second time.
PRISONS' ACT.

The Earl of CARNARVON inquired of the Govern-
ment what arrangements they had made for giving effect
to the Prisons' Act of last session, by securing an ade-
quate inspection of the county and borough prisons.
The object of the- act was to afford efficient inspection,
but in practical effect the present inspection was a mere
formality. He contended that a great necessity existed
for an alteration in the present system, and he would be
happy to receive a satisfactory answer on a subject of such
importance.
Earl RUSSELL said that instructions had been given
on the subject.
The Earl of CARNARVON considered the noble lord had
given him no answer at all. What had the instructions
reference to—did they relate to increased expenditure, or
to anything else calculated to render the system of in-
spection more efficient.
Earl RUSSELL was understood to say that the matter
would be referred to the Home Office.
The Earl of CARNARVON—Then, I will repeat my
question on Thursday next.
THE CATTLE PLAGUE.
In repiy to the Earl of WINCHILSZA,
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH said that the means
adopted in consequence of the order in Privy Council had
the effect of extending the disease, for where farmers found
that they were not to receive a compensation for the
slaughter of their cattle, they concealed the disease in
their stock, and took the matter into their own hands,
thereby disseminating the epidemic.
After a few words from Lord PoLwArrit,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the Order in
Council referred to by the noble earl (Winchilsea) was, he
thought, warranted by the spirit, if not by the letter, of
the act of 18,18. It was by his advice that it had been
issued, :or it was the only one that would have been effec-
tual for the purpose in view. No great harm could in any
case have been done, because the order only authorised the
destruction of animals already affected by disease.
The Earl of DERBY said that the object of the act of
1848 was distinctly limited to the prevention of diseased
cattle being offered for sale. He could not understand how

it was supposed that such an act empowered the Privy
Council to issue an order for the destruction of cattle not
offered for sale. It was a most extraordinary stretch of the
nature of an act of Parliament to say that because they had
powers to enforce the provisions, therefore they had power
to g;ve any orders they thought fit to give effect to what
they called the object of the act. It was admitted that
these orders did not come within the letter of that act. A
number of persons, then, had had their cattle destroyed
contrary to law—that was, without the sanction of the law

•
—destroyed by an inspector without authority, because
there was no one to give that authority. Under these oir-
cumstances the persons so deprived of their property had
fair and legitimate claim for compensation, and for com-
pensation not to be levied on their neighbours and them-

selves— (cheers)—but from that Government who, contrary
to law, had deprived them of their property. Every person
whose cattle was destroyed had a perfect right to bring an
action for damages. Except in these particular cases his
own opinion wao that the Goveinment had fallen short
of what the law authorised them to do ; but clearly every
person who had suffered by their wrongdoing ought to b 3
compensated out o`, the public funds. He would much
rather not look back to what had been done rightly or
wrongly, but would look forward to what could be done
at the last moment. The members of the Government
must agree that both in this house and in another place
there had been no indisposition fairly to consider the ob-
ject they had before them, and no desire to put factious
embarrassments in their way. On the contrary, all parties
desired to render every assistance in their power. If ho
was rightly informed, the measure proposed by her Ma-
jesty's Goveinment was of a very intricate and complicated
character. There was another and a rival bill brought
forward by an independent country gentleman, but there
were proposals on which all were agreed ; and, on the
other hand, there were a variety of minute details on which
there was the greatest possible conflict of opinion. He
would suggest to her Mr.jesty's Government whether, in
this pressing emelgency, instead of proceeding with all the
details of a bill in all its stages open to discussion, they
might not endeavour simultaneously in both houses to
pass resolutions on which there was no difference :of opi-
nion. Take, for example, the prohibition of fairs and
markets—the prohibition of the removal of stock, at all
events—until the 25th of March, as well as the power to
slaughter diseased or infected animals, and to prevent the
passage of cattle on roads or railways. In cases whet*
animals were slaughtered under the direction of the Go-
vernment, the parties whose animals were slaughtered
should be entitled to compensation. If these four resolu-

lutions were passed through both houses together, leaving
over the det&'s of the bill and the question of the mode
of compensation, the Government might pass an Order in
Caunc" giN 'ng effect to those resolutions until the 25.1 of
March. That course might be completed in three days,
but he felt it was doubtful whether a bill of the compli-
cated character of that proposed by the Government would
pass through in three weeks. If they took the resolutions
he should not be disposed to criticise too severely the
terms in which they might be brought forward.

Earl GREY cautioned the Government against the adop-
tion of the suggestion just made. It seemed to him that
even in the face of this plague such a course would be a
dangerous precedent. Nothing was more important than
that Parliament should adhere to ordinary practice. He
would therefore rather that the bill were allowed to pass
with little discussion, leaving the responsibility of the
measure to her Majesty's Government.

The Marquis of BATH hoped the power of slaughtering
would not be given to the present iuspectors, and that the
reLti:etions as to the removal in the south-west parte of
the couniiy would be lireited to the end of the present
month.

Earl RUSSELL er.pressed his opinion that the Order 3
h Council came within the scope of the act of 1848, which
enabled them to make regrlations for preventing the spread
of the &seas°. The order therefore was given, as neces-

&fly for preventing the spread of the disease, that cattle
should be s?au3hteree, and he had obseivee, from various
meet!Dzs on the subject that this step was absolutely re-
qu;”ed to be put !a force. The question the noble lord
had rased was as to whether the public purse- should be
made to pay compensation.
The Earl of DERBY—Or'y in those cases where the
cattle were slaughtered by the inspectors IN ithout the au-
thority of the ac..; of Parliament.

Earl EUSS4ELL said ;he noble earl took it for granted
they bad exceeded the powers of the Act of Parliament.
If the inspectors had done anytb.ng illegal, there could be
an action aga'nst thew; and of course the Government
wou'd indennffy the inspectors. In fact, what those in-

spctors had done was to dest.roy a ny'sance. There
could not be a greater ny'sance than d'seased animals
from wb'ch there wrm a danger of the disease spreading
Lir oughout the cointiy. With regard to what the noblo

earl said as to leait7ui this matter to the rtrolutions of
bosh houses, he aweed with the noble earl on the cross
benches C]ari Grey), That that was a dangerous precedent.
The- e might be some question raised as to the authority

of those resolutions. It appeared to Wm that it would be
better to take the cpinions of the two houses in the ordi-

nary way. He did not see why the resolutions should not
be put 'n the ciauze-, r be azreed to is the manner in

which the Legislature was cairied on.
The Earl of CARNARVON held that the slaughtering
referred to in the Act of 1813 applied only to sheep, and
not to hosed cattle. Accordins to the well-known

maxim, " delegatus non pote,t delegari," he could not un-

derstand how it was that the Lords in Council had power
to izzue the orders they had to the local authorities.
Earl GRANVILLE had no doubl; that it was perfectly
competent for the Lords iu Council to issue the orders
which they had made. The judgment of the Government
had been justified by the conclusions of the Attorney-
General, who was assisted in the matter by the Solicitor-
General, and by the permanent Under Secretaly of the

Home D43.rLment.
The LORD CHANCELLOR desired to protest against
the supposition that he had authorised anything which he
believed to be illegal. He admitted that the Government
,was in a great difficulty on account of the loose wording
of the act of Parliament. Still, although the particular pro-
-I.,:sion related to sheep, thegeneral bodyof the act included
cattle. further, what he WI intended to couvey was?