The Sun.
London, England, 1832-03-06 00:00:00

SCRIPTURAL- EDUCATION IN IRELAND.

Sir JOHN BRYDGES presented a petition against
the proposed changes in the Irish education. He cordially
concurred in the prayer of the petition.
Sir R. BATESON was sorry that some measures had
been apparently concocted for the purpose of frustrating
the wishes of the people, and preventing this subject of
Irish scriptural education being fairly brought under the
consideration of that House. There was no subject in
his estimation which was so highly important and interest-
ing as the subject which this petition referred to. Thealmost
unanimous wishes of the Protestants in the province of
Ulster,and indeed generally throughoutlreland, were opposed
to the new system of education proposed by his Majesty's
Government. The subject had created a general feeling
throughout all Ireland, and there was now a petition in
the possession of an Hon. Gentleman—of which the House
' had heard so often, but which he was afraid would not be
presented—from the Synod of Ulster, which spoke the
sentiments of the great mass of Protestants in the north of
Ireland. The seceding ministers of Ireland, as well as all
their congregations, had petitioned the House against the
proposed alterations, and their petitions were entitled not
only to the attention of his Majesty's Government, but
also of that House. He implored Gentlemen, before
they went too far, to consider well what they were about,
and not irritate the whole Protestant popul ition of Ire-
land by persevering in a project which, although good,
perhaps, in their review of the theory, would never
practically succeed. In the north of Ireland the Protestants
objected to the new scheme because they could not have
the Word of God given to their children without note or
comment; and the Roman Catholics only objected to the
Kildare-street Society because the Scriptures were read
there without comment. Was it politic or wise of
his Majesty's Ministers to change their opinion with
regard to that system of education merely to couciliate
a class of his Majesty's Irish subjects, although superior in
numerical force, by no means the principal and important
class in that community ? Were the Protestants' wishes en.
tirely to be overlooked and disregarded? It had been said
that the opposition to the proposed changes had been
got up on political, party, and factious motives. He
took that opportunity, however, of flatly and moat un•
equivocally denying that; and he hada petition from a con-
gregation in the north of Ireland, representing themselves
Reformers, entirely disavowing all party motives, and de-
claring that they will neither support the present
nor any other Administration which would force
such a system as the present, against the almost unanimous
wishes of the Protestant part of the community. There
was not the slightest ground for the allegation that their
opposition had been suggested by factious motives. The
Synod of Ulster was a body least of all likely to be so
influenced and actuated. It was composed of the
most respectable, moral, intelligent, and influential perons
in the north of Ireland, and the members of their con-
gregations who had signed this petition against the ,
proposed change were little short of half a million.
The Dissenters, the clergy of the Established Church in the
diocese of Derry, and the diocese of Dublin, and the greater
part of the Bishops, were unanimous in their reprobation
of the system. Rather than have this system, they de-
clared that they would prefer having no grant at all; and
they would have the charitable and religious educate the
poor of their own denominations according to their
own principles. He would call the attention of the
Right Honourable Secretary for Ireland to the present
state of that country. In what a different condition did
the provinces of Ulster and Munster present themselves ?
And it was all to be attributed to the superior religious
education which the former possessed. No literary edu-
cation could ever be of advantage to the lower orders of
Irishmen, ur,less it was bottomed on scriptural prin-
ciples. Two hundred and thirty thousand had already
signed their names to the petitions; and there were, he
believed, upwards of fifty petitions in tho possession of an
Hon. Friend, if time could be afforded for their presentation.
The Hon. Gentleman called upon Ministers, in the name
of all the Protestants of Ireland, not to force this system
of education on the Irish population. He assured the
House that great anxiety prevailed throughout the north
of Ireland, and those who had heretofore been the sup-
porters of Government were decidedly adverse to the
system. They could think of nothing worse than a
system of education which took from the parents of
children the entire control over them—the entire
selection of
their books, and which gave to the
children a mutilated sacred book. It was impossible that
any man could reduce any portions of the Scriptures so as
to be worthy of the Bible. Under these circumstances he
could not but support the Bill which was against the
system.
Carlow, praying for the entire abolition of tithes.
parts of Ireland, praying for the abolition of tithes; for
the same system of Reform to be introduced into Ireland
thaAStsliarri.siP• GRATTAN presented petitions from various
p. DOYLE presented a petition from Newton,
prop to be introduced into England ; and that
the ancient franchise of Galway may be continued.
Sir R. BATEMAN presented a petition • • from the

(PRICE ID.

Presbyterian Seceding Body of Donegal, praying for a
more equal distribution of the resiiuni donu:n. There
was not a more respectable class in existence than the
Irish Presbyterians ; and, he was authorise& to say,
that none of them bad ever been known to forfeit
his life to the laws of his country. Their Clergymen
were educated expensively, and they conducted themselves
respectably, notwithstanding they bad ()illy thirty-nine
pounds (Irish) per annum. With this it was quite im-
possible they could be expected to maintain themselves and
families in the respectable station in which they were
obliged to rank.
Lord ACHESON supported the petition. The petitioners
were, to his knowledge, a most respectable sect, and the Pres-
byterian Dissenters consisted of not less than a hundred and
twenty, or a hundred and thirty congregations in Ireland.
Mr. HUME was sorry that any request should have
been at present made on the public funds at all.
If this request were granted, he saw no reason
why a claim should not be made by all the seced-
ing bodies both in England and Scotland. He
hoped if the House beard much more on the subject from
petitions, that Ministers would think it right to with-
draw 4e grant altogether. If not, be himself would pro.
bably not think it improper, 4t no distant day, to have all
the Dissenters placed on an equal footing throughout the
kingdom.

Lord CASTLEREAGH ba.cl no „doubt that if the
Hon. Member did bring forwitd su'eh a notice as that
which he had just threatened, he would find those in the
House who would be able to meet it. He (Lord Castle-
reagh) supported the prayer of the petition.
Sir ROBERT BATEMAN presented a petition from
the city and liberties of Londonderry against the Grand
Jury system.
Mr. WYSE wished to know whether it was the inten-
tion of his Majesty's Government to take any step towards
the restrictions of the expenses attending the system ?
Mr. STANLEY said that it was his intention
to bring in a Bill on the subject, by which the constabu.
lary expenses, at all events, would be considerably reduced ;
but it was impossible fur him t• enter• into any details
of what this Bill would contain, as it was at present alto-
gether in an unfit state to bring before the House.
The petition was read and ordered to be printed.
SILK TRADE.

Lord GROSVENOR moved the order of the day for
renewing the debate oa the motion for a Committee to in-
quire into the state of the Bilk trade.
____

The order of the day having been read,
The NOBLE LOAD, in resuming the debate, wished to
make explanations on one or two points of the state-
ments which he had made on a former evening, and
which he found bad been misunderstood. There was
one objection which he had stated to the House, of
an Honourable Member (Mr. Morrison) being one
of the Committee, and he was understood to
have objected to that Hon. Member because he was in-
terested in the question. He wished here to observe that
he had no personal objection whatever to that Honour-
able Member, hut he felt that individuals who have an inter-
est in the question would naturally feel a bias which was
more likely to lead their minds to a consistency in their
opinions, than to an impartial discu+lion of the subject. The
interest to which he had alluded had not the remotest
reference to any pecuniary transactions in which that or
any other Member was concerned. lie had been
also misunderstood in another point. He had
stated that there was an establishment at Battersea, be-
longing to two highly respectable individuals, Messrs.
Haines and Atkinson, on which 19,0001. had been spent for
manufactures and machinery, and the whole of which, a
few monthi ago, was disposed of for 5,0501. In the cost
of that establishment he had made a trifling error ;
for instead of 19,000/., it had cost not quite 18,000/. ;
hut he was correct in the price for which it was sold.
He had also stated that the firm had lost a sum of
40,000/., but upon inquiry he had since learnt that
it was by no means so great. The Noble Lord
concluded by nominating the Committee, among whom
were, besides himself, Mr. P. Thompson, Sir
Robert Peel, Mr. Alderman Venables, Mr. G.
Lamb, Mr. H. Hughes, Mr. F. Lewis, Mr. F. Buxton,
Mr. M. S. Stewart, Mr. S. Mackenzie, Mr. Sheil, &c. &c.
five to be a quorum.

The motion was put and agreed to.
Mr. S. WORTLEY moved for certain returns relative
to Parochial Assessments, which were ordered.
. _

Sir R. PEEL wished to put a question to the Noble
Lord (Althorp) by the desire of persons connected
with more than one Water Company in the metropolis.
It would be of great importance to those Companies,
and to the public, if they could be informed when
Mr. Telford's Report as to the best mode of supply-
ing the metropolis with water would be ready to
be presented to the House, because many plans
that hal been laid bef,re some of the Water
Companies had been abandoned in expectation of bating
that report shortly before the public.
Lord ALTHORP made a reply which was wholly
inaudible in the gallery.