The Sun.
London, England, 1866-07-17 00:00:00

Hussars, they must considerthe claims of every field officer
who had been put on half-pay without any fault of their

own.

Mr. J. B. SMITH said he happened, in the spring of
1851, to be coming down the Rhine in a steamer on which
there was a number of Prussian soldiers, who were armed
with a weapon he had never seen before. He asked to look
at one, but the soldiers said they were not allowed to show
them. There was an English engineer on board who had
settled in Prussia. He asked the engineer if ho knew what
kind of weapon this was that the Prussian soldiers were
armed with, and he replied that it was the needle gun, that
it would carry four times as far as the ordinarymusket,and
fire four times as often ; and he added, " if you go to war
with Prussia (which was not at all probable) you will soon
find out what it is." He (Mr. Smith) thought it of import-
ance, told him he was a member of Parliament, and re-
quested him to write him a letter with soma particulars
concerning it. A few days after his return to London he
received a letter from the engineer. It was a very important
letter. Mr. Fox Mauls was then Secretary for War, and
he handed him the letter, and said'he wished him to read
it, as it was very important. Mr. Fox Maule took the
letter and read it, and, without turning round, banded
the letter back over his head muttering, "We know all
about it." From that day to this they had heard nothing
about the needle gun. A few weeks afterwards Mr. Fox
Mauls brought on the estimate for the ordnance, which in-
cluded a vote for 50,000 muskets to replace an equal num-
ber that had been burned in the Tower. He (Mr. J. B.
Smith) opposed the vote, saying that voting money for
such a weapon as the old musket was as bad as throwing
the money into the river ; but Mr. Maule said it was of im-
portance that the Government should not be without the
muskets. This letter was dated April 24, 1851, and it
stated that the Prussian army had been armed with the
needle gun since 1847, that it was generally admitted it
would kill at 700 yards. He was very glad to hear that
the right hon. and gallant gentleman opposite had taken
this question into his serious consideration, and that the
country would no longer be without the finest instrument
that could be produced. He happened to be in company with
Mr. Whitworth shortly after some experiments had been
made with his rifle, and with his cannon and Sir W. Arm-
strong's, and Mr. Whitworth, than whom there was no one
who was better able to give an opinion on the subject, re-
marked, "We are in our infancy in regard to this matter ;
we are only just beginning to make instruments of de-
struction ; it is only just now that the scientific mind
is called to the invention of instruments of de-
struction ; but it will go on and never cease until
war will become so destructive, by inventions of different
kinds, that there will be the termination of it." Seeing
that there was six millions of men in arms in Europe, it
was indispensable that thtarmy of this country should be
supplied with the best possible weapon. It was necessarj
to provide a sufficient
quantity for immediate use, but it
was not wise to lay up great stores, for improvements were
being made so rapidly that the best weapons of the present'
time might in a few years be shown in the Tower as great
curiosities, and as useless as the muskets that were pun,
chased during the time of Mr. Fox Millie.
Mr. IL SEYMOUR asked whether any of her Majesty's:
troops in India were supplied with breech-loading rifles, and
whether breech-loading carbines had been served out to
dui cavalry it was intended to send out (the llth:Husmrs)
to India without them. Ho also wished to know whether
it was not practicable to have the arms converted in India,
instead of having to send them to England ? It was far
more important that our army should be supplied with
breech-loaders in India than in Europe, seeing that, ac-
cording to recent accounts, the north of India was in an
unsatisfactory state.
Mr. NEWDEGATE was the survivor of the three mem-
kers of that house who had urged the appointment of the
small arms committee of 1854, and ho had on that occasion
acted with the Duke of Somerset, whom he regarded as
one of the ablest administrators of the present day. He
(the hon. member) believed that he was mainly instru-
mental in introducing Mr. Westley Richards to Lord
Hardinge, and that it was to the exertions of Mr. Richards
and some other gunmakers, that the country was indebted
for the Enfield rifle, the most efficient muzzle-loading
musket that had ever been possessed by any country in
the world. He did not join in the contempt which had
been expressed for hard shooting; for he had been as-
sured by friends of his 'who were present at lnkerman
that but for the hard shooting of our men the two-gun
battery would have been captured by the enemy, and that
the loss of that battery might have cost us the battle.
He was glad to learn the army were at once to be supplied
with breech-loaders, for he believed that an inferiorbreech-
loader was better than none at all. He was not aware
whether the Snider was the best rifle that could be invented
but he trusted the Government would submit the pieces as '
fast as they were converted to the test of actual practice.
In that manner they would at once teach our soldiers the
use of the weapon, and put the weapon itself to full proof.
It would be an act of great rashness not to act on the in-
formation we had lately received ; and supposing we had
a hundred or a hundred and fifty thousand breech-loaders
of not the very bast construction left on our hauls, it
would be easy hereafter to soil them off, and in the interim
we should not have been behind the rest of the world. Ile
did not agree that the principle which was insisted on of
alooluto interchangeability in the parts of a Dille, valuable
as it was, was so valuable that the Government ought to
sacrifice to it the mechanical skill of the country outside
the Enfield factory. lie trusted, therefore, they would
adopt a second pattern in case of any emergency, a step
which would increase their power threefold. He hoped
also they would appoint to test the claims of the rival mus-
kets a tribunal from which every inventor should be ex-
cluded, and which should consist of infantry officers who
would have no other guide than actual experience.
Mr. OSBORNE—I feel perfect confidence in leaving the
decision of this important question to the gallant general
who now holds the office of Secretary for War Two bet-
ter appointments could not have been made than that of
the gallant gentleman and that of the Earl of Longford,
with whom I have long been intimately acquainted in the
House of Lords. (Hear, hear.) But I rise to ask a question
with regard to other appointments which do not give me
the same confidence. I wish to draw the attention of the
house to the administration of justice in the sister country.
(Hear, hear.) I am not about to criticise in any unfair
spirit the appointments which have been made by the
other bide, because I think that, taking them man by man,
those appointments are, on the whole, very creditable to the
gentlemen opposite, and that they may fairly compete, in
the matter of well-informed dukes and statistical baronets,
with any appointments made on this side. (A laugh.) I
shall be delighted, and I mean to give them a fair trial,
which I think, under the circumstance; they deserve. At
the same time I must t4eg for a categorical answer to the
question which I am about to put to the right hon. gentle-
man the head of the Government in this house. I wish to
ask if there ie any truth in the statements which 1 have
seen in this morning's papers with regard to the law ap-
pointments of Ireland ? The house is well aware that 11
years ago there was constituted a court of appeal, of which
a very great lawyer was put at the head—l mean Mr.
Blackburn. I believe there have been fewgreater, or more
illustrious lawyers, either in Ireland or in this country,
than Mr. Blackburn was. Within the last few days we have
seen it reported that Mr. Blackburn, at the age of 85—and
I am sorry to say the shadow of his former self—has been
transferred to the great and important office of Lord Chan-
cellor of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) It is true that ho had served
in that office before, but it was many years ago, before the
increase of age and infirmities had weighed him down.
However, having had no official .information on the point,
I ask, is it true that he has been appointed Lord Chancel-
lor ? Now, there was an officer in Ireland who I believe
might be compared as an equity lawyer with any in this
country or Ireland ; and I did hope that my Lord Derby,
in his anxiety to put his Government, as he says, upon a
broad basis, would remember that there was a man of mo-
derate politics, though of great legal ability, who might
most properly have been put into that place. I mean Mr.
Brewster. lam surprised that he has been passed over.
(Hear, hoar.) What has happened ? A man whom we all
recollect, both for his ability and for his
.deafness (Mr.
Napier) has been taken from his snug retirement of £2,000
a year—
Several HON. MEMBERS—£4,OOO.
Mr. OSBORNE—So much the better for him. (Laugh •
ter.) Ido not grudge it him, for I think he has well earned
it; but what I find fault with is that Mr. Napier—a, deaf
judge—has been put of all places in the world into that
of Lord, Chief Justice of Appeals. (Hear, hear.) I ask
can this be true ? I refuse to believe it till I hear it from
the right hon. gentleman opposite. It may be said that
this appointment has been made by the Government in
their anxiety to save his pension of £4,000 a year. But
that is no answer; for I say the ibterests of the Irish public
must suffer from having a Chancellor of 85, and a Chief
Justice who is as deaf as any man of 85 ought to be.
(Laughter.) I see by the papers that there has been a
round-robin, and that the right hon. gentleman (Mr. White-
side) insists that Mr. Brewster oughtnot to be
m
be
e to promotedsay
to the rank of Chancellor. It is unnecessary
promotion
atf ttltionkhtalniadtsfoorf
any
ahni
sy
gt hrei na gt
taabloe
nu about
st the riihgelri
tshon. gentleman.
her Majesty's Government. He has been of great and ma-
zusgohttbnaottthtoe berritsdhlowedtteor
di aile
tsea
troy
ti ce er
otios ht
oistl7
or
(tiyo;vtbruntnilieen
peo-
ple should be subjected to a deaf judge of appeals andan
octogenarian Lord Chancellor. I will ask is that justice
to Ireland ? Such aro not my notions of justice to Irela,nd,
and I did hope from the exposition on the hustings at
Aylesbury that such a job as this would not have been
perpetrated. (Hear.) As lam speaking I will give credit
to the Clev,:rnmer.t for doing that which their predecessors
did not do—for putting the Irish Secretary in to tho Cabinet.
I give great credit to them for that; and I have no objec-
tionfirsAt
ntlorlimisehyn
s.n
meoebrElemettßfurEyi
ie:_wdhTwo:hol ora
:hloayscacbsuelapeiner
d.pllut
htoar
stthmeporaosn.i.tiolnlo. is the
Mr. OSBORNE—WeII, I should hardlyv call him an Irish
Secretary, for he was not connectewith
the country, and
he did not learn his business.
the Government have got a Sc(oLt a
ill ha
etuoe rua.
l)s Ihlrairegret that
the Treasury. I wish that Lord
Derby d
from amongst his numerous adherents,
who, he says, were
so vsles eL el
ercdtf
d eo
so anxious to be placed, an Irishman to
this post. (Hear,
hear.) Without making any invidious comments on the
policyin nubibus of the Government, I hope the right hon.

gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) will give us some explanation of
the course which is to be pursued with regard to Ireland.
I have some difficulty in decyphering the right hon. gentle-
man's meaning when he laments the great emigration
that is going on. That emigration is undoubtedly to be
deplored, though at the same time it has its good side ;
bat when the right hon. gentleman, as leader of this
house and Chancellor of the Exchequer, directly hints
that he has some measure in reserve by which he will put
a stop to that emigration, I think he is bound to state to
the house whether he is going to inaugurate a great system
of public works, and whether there is to be money from
the English exchequer applied for that purpose.
Mr. OLIPHANT here made a remark to the hon.
member.
Mr. OSBORNE-31y hon. friend suggests to me to ask
whether Lord Chief Justice Lefroy has resigned. Of
course he has. My hon. friend is behind the age. Being
a Scotch member, of most disinterested feelings, my hon.
friend cannot enter into it. The only quarrel is now
amongst the lawyers as to who is to share the plunder.
(A laugh.) I believe that the quarrel is made up, that
Lord Chief Justice Lefroy has resigned at the age of 92,
that we are to have a Lord Chancellor of 85 ; that Mr.
Napier, who is as deaf as a stone, is to be Lord Justice of
Appeals ; and that the member for the University of
Dublin is to be Lord Chief Justice. I believe that that
is the information we shall hear ; but I won't anticipate
it. (Laughter.) I hope that the right hon. gentleman,
either in contradicting or affirming it, will give us some
sketch of his Irish policy ; because there is nothing so
mischievous for Ireland as to leave the people of that
thethe befeliteufre,!hawthiegrh eat
are
mteeaseutereps
are ecountry
n h
emigration," o uni
n looming under
and
n
to put money into all their
pockets. Unfortunately I have a vivid recollection of
public works in Ireland, and I do hope that neither in the
shape of loans to Irish:railways nor of public works are
we about to have Irish capitalists or Irish workmen de-
bauched with such a policy. This is a most important
question, and it is one upon which the future of the right
hon. gentleman's Government depends. I hope by the
smile which I see flitting across his interesting counte-
nance—(roars of laughter)—l hope by that smile that he
is about to rise and give an utter denial with regard to
these Irish appointments. I cannot but feel that by doing
so he will materially strengthen his position, although he
may possibly disappoint some of his ardent Irish sup-
porters. (Hear, hear.)
General PEEL said that ho could give no explanation
with regard to the first question which had been put to
him. The papers had never been" before him, but he un-
derstood that the appointment of Major Jervis had been
submitted to her Majesty for approval. He (the gallant
general) had always conceived it to be his duty in such
cases to call upon the Commander-in-Chief to bring in
some officer on half-pay, so as to relieve the half-pay list,
but if the Commander-in-Chief should point out that by so
doing he would inflict great hardship upon the senior cap-
tains, the Secretary of State would no doubt attend to
his representations. With regard to the question of
breech-loaders, which was one of much greater importance,
he (General Peel) could only state what had been done
since he had been Secretary of State. As the hon. and
gallant gentleman said, the occurrences which had sur-
prised the whole of Europe had conclusively proved the
great superiority of breech-loaders, but he did not admit
that they would shoot four times as far. On the contrary,
he believed that that was a perfect fiction.
Mr. OSBORNE observed that what Mr. Smith said was
that the Prussian needle-gun shot four times as far as the
old "Brown Bess."
General PEEL—Still quite sufficient had taken place to
show that the breech-loader was an immense improvement.
He need only refer, in proof of that, to the accounts which
had been received from the special correspondent of the
Times—than whom no one was more capable of giving an
opinion, and than whose opinion none was of more weight.
We had, however, military officers attached to the embas-
sies of both the countries that were engaged in the war;
and ho (Gen. Peel) had letters from each of them. One of
these, dated " Vienna, July 5," said, "1 do most sincerely
hope that no delay will occur, but that we shall immedi-
ately, and at any cost, arm the whole of our army with
breech-loaders." The officer who was with the Prussian
army wrote—" As to the needle-gun, I have only to say
what I have been urging for three years. We dare notgo to
war with muzzle-loaders against breech-loaders." (Hear,
hear.) In another despatch, however, ho said, "I look
upon our own gun, from what I hear of it, as much better,
as I think it is simpler ; but breech-loaders it must be, and
that speedily." (Cheers.) He (General Peel) was glad to
state that the attention of the late Government had been
turned to the subject during the last two or three years;
for it was two years since a committee reported that the
whole of the army should be armed with breech-loaders.
The question then Was how this recommendation should
be carried into effect ? Should it be by conversion of the
Enfield rifle into a breech loader, or by the introduction of
a new arm ? Ho thought it had been properly decided to
introduce the Snider rifle ; and the present Government
had resolved that the number to be converted should be
100,000, instead of 40,000. (Cheers.) By converting the
present Enfield rifle, which was the best muzzle-loader
into a breech-loader, they obtained an arm that shot better
and they got rid of the ramrod and the copper cap. He
had given orders for the conversion of 100,000 of those
rifles instead of 40,000, and he expected to succeed in get-
ting as many more converted by the trade, so that by the
end of the financial year they would have 200,000 breech-
loaders ready for service. Were this work to be done by
hand it would involve an expenditure of £l2 per rifle,
whereas ty the aid of machinery it could be effected at £1
per rifle. The dovernment, however, had not come to any
decision, beyond the mere conversion, as to what the future
arm of the troops should be. The question would probably
be referred to a commission, composed chiefly of infantry
officers, to decide upon the relative merits of Snider and
other breech loaders. With regard to the Indian army,
there were some cavalry regiments armed with breach-
'leading carbines, but he did not believe there was such a
thing as a breech loading musket being in use there. With
respect to the equipment of the 11th Hussars, the War-
office communicated with the Horse Guards, stating that
there were 700 of Sharp's rifles in store, and wishing to
know whether that department desired that they should
be issued to that regiment. The answer received was to
the effect that no such desire was entertained, and that
was the reason why the rifle in question had not been
supplied.

Mr. OLIPHANT wished to know whether the attention
of the right hon. and gallant gentleman had been called to
the use of the Westley Richards percussion cap carbine,
and the Spencer repeating carbine, which had been found
a most efficient weapon during the American war.

The Marquis of HARTINGT ON said that there appeared
to be some misapprehension with regard to the question of
the appointment of Major Jervis. That appointment had
been made by the Horse Guards in the spirit of the royal
warrant, and not, as had been supposed, for the sake of
saving the half-pay. The Commander-in-Chief had pro-
mised the appointment to Major Jervis, in justice to the
claims put forward by that officer.;With regard to the con-
version of the Enfield rifles, he had ordered the conversion
of 20,000 of them immediately on receiving, the report of
the committee. From what he knew of the resources of
the establishment at Enfield he doubted whether the anti-
cipation of the right hon. and gallant general opposite
ould be realised.

An HON. MEMBER, reverting to the question of tho pro-
motion of Major Jervis, said it was not only a case of
hardship to other officers, but was an actual bar to
promotion.