The Sun.
London, England, 1835-06-27 00:00:00

concerning that Gentleman precisely in the same way as the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had now done. He
(Mr. Shaw) stated that he believed that no such bills of in-
dictment had been found against Mr. Hudson, and he more-
over added that bills of indictment had been found against
other parties concerned in the election, but not against Mr.
}ludson.—( Llear.) The matter, as far as regarded Mr. Hud-
son, had been dealt with in a spirit of kindess by him, and
the House shDuld bear in mind that the Government of the
time was in favour of the opposing candidates. There could
be, therefore, no anxiety on their parts to proceed against Mr.
Hudson, and he (Mr. Shaw) never experienced any. He had
been repeatedly requested to bring the matter before the
House, and he invariably refused to do so. He repeated that
no bills of indictment had been found against Mr. Hudson,
though bills had been preferred against the other parties.—
(Question.) However, the less the I-lon. and Learned Gen-
tleman opposite pressed the matter the better it would be for
• Mr. Hudson and all parties. He had one more word to say—
(Loud cries of " Question," and " Chair.")
Sir J. HOBHOUSE rose to order. The House had
already granted sufficient indulgence to the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman; and if he persevered, the consequence would he that
the Hon. and Learned Member on his right (Mr. O'Connell)
would claim to make a reply, and thus the important motion
that was about to be brought on would be interrupted.—( Loud
cries of " Lord Morpeth.")
Mr. SHAW again rose, but the tremendous cries of
" Order," and " Chair," caused him to sit down without being
beard.
The SPEAKER made a few observations, which were totally
inaudible.
Colonel PE RC E VAL endeavoured to address the House,
but the calls for Lord Morpeth were so loud and general that
the Hon. and Gallant Colonel was obliged to resume his seat.
TITHE—IRELAND.
The order of the day was then read for calling the attention
of the House to the Irish Tithe Question—and on the motion
of Lord Morpeth, the following resolutions of the 7th of
April were read :
" That any surplus revenue of the present Church Establish-
ment in Ireland, not required for the spiritual care of its members,
be applied to the moral and religious education of all classes of the
people, without distinction of religious persuasion, providing for the
resumption of such surplus, or of any such part of it as may be
required 'oy an increase in the number of the members of the Esta-
blished Church.

" That it is the opinion of this House that no measure upon
tithes in Ireland can lead to a satisfactory and final adjustment,
which does not embody the principle contained in the foregoing
resolutions."

Lord MORPETH—I hope, Sir, that the temper of the
discussion from which we have just emerged, to whichever
side of the House the blame may be principally owing, may
not be a prelude to the discussion of the subject to which I
now invite the attention of the House.—( Hear, hear.) I am
sure it will be readily conceded to me, that in rising to bring
forward a motion which has for its professed object the set-
tlement of the question of Irish tithes, and the future regu-
lation of the Irish Church Establishment, that to bespeak the
usual and more than usual indulgence and forbearance of the
House is not to use mere words of course, or to preface a speech
with mere commonplace. For when I recollected and when
the House remembers the inherent difficulties and complexi-
ties of the subject, the numerous experiments which have been
attempted upon it, and the various aspects which it has from
time to time assumed—and when we consider further the
skill, the perseverence, and the ability which have succes-
sively, from so many quarters, been brought to bear upon it,
but which, great and able as those qualities have been, have
all hitherto successively failed in obtaining that which is the
main object of all parties—a satisfactory and final adjustment
of the question at issue—well may I find my present endea-
vour arduous, and the prospect it presents to me almost appal-
ling. I well know that any one who puts himself in the situa-
tion that I have done—that of taking upon himself the respon-
sibility of a very important office—puts himself out of a condi-
tion to plead want of preparation. At the same time I may
be permitted to state, that the difficulty of my undertaking
has been considerably augmented, and my means of prepara-
tion rendered very inadequate to deal with a question of such
great and difficult state policy, by reason of my never hitherto
having taken any very prominent part in the discussion of this
question.—(Hear, hear.) There is one consideration alone
which tends to lighten the load of difficulty which I gather
from a retrospect of the subject, and that is, that it devolves
upon me to suggest, for the first time, the solution of the
Tithe question, accompanied by a principle placed upon a
ground of the most just policy and the most honest concilia-
tion, and such as I believe to be indispensable to reconcile
the parties concerned—that is the nation at large—to that
sacrifice and that embarrassment which any settlement of
such a question must in some degree entail. At all events I
trust that my very abstinence from any former discussion on
this subject will entitle my observations to be received with
all possible temper; because I flatter myself, that with all its
difficulties, I shall be able to approach it without possessing
any of its animosities.—(Cheers.) After the best considera-
tion I have been able to give the subject, and after a consulta-
tion with those best calculated to give an opinion upon it, I
have thought myself warranted in adopting my present course,
and in making my motion without going into a previous Com-
mittee. The measure of which I have given notice embraces
two leading heads—the settlement of the Tithe question, and
future regulation of the Irish Church Establishment. With
=pest to the first—that of the settlement of the Tithe ques-
tu)a—l think the precedent of the Irish Tithe Composition
ket, introduced by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
for the University of Cambridge in 1823, and of the Bill for
the Composition of English Tithes, introduced by Lord Spen-
cer in 1833, being both so introduced without resorting to a
Committee, give me sufficient authority on this part of the
subject. There are one or two regulations embodied in the
Bill I propose to submit to the House, upon which it will be
first necessary to obtain the sanction of a Committee before
they can be embodied in the Bill. With respect to the proposi-
tion relating to the future regulation of the Church Establish-
ment,
and the appropriation of its revenues, I cover my present
course by the Resolutions which were moved by my Noble
Friend the Secretary for the Home Department, and agreed
to by the House on the 7th of April last, and which the Clerk
has just read at the table. The whole subject has been so fre-
quently and so recently before the House, that .a verybrieafs
statement indeed will be sufficient to call the attention of Hon.
Members to the position which it at present occupies ; and
I proceed to state the particulars of the measure which I
shall have the honour of submitting to the House, it will in
some sort be putting them not so much in contrast as in com-
parison with the two particular measures which ?save lately
engaged the attention of Parliament—the one introduced by
Mr. Littleton, now Lord Hatherton, and which was after-
wards sent up to the House of Lords ; and the other an-
nounced by the Right Hon. and Gallant Gentleman opposite
(Sir H. Hardinge), in the present Session of Parliament.
And I find, notwithstanding all the warmth of feeling, and all
the statements which have arisen upon these occasions, that
there is so much real similarity and agreement in all the mea-
sures that have come before the House, that the chief part of
this branch of the subject will be attained by my marking as
I go along such prominent parts of difference as they occur.
—( Hear.) It will not be necessary to inform any of those
who have given attention to this subject, that the compositions
for tithe in Ireland, under the Act that goes by the name of
Goulburn's Act, were voluntary and temporary ; and which,
by the Act of my Noble Friend the Member for North Lanca-
shire (Lord Stanley), were made compulsory and perpetual.
The compositions which by the latest account I have been
able to make out, from the returns presented to Parliament,
amount to 560,0001. for ecclesiastical tithe, and 100,0001.
for lay tithe. Now, the opening proposition of the present
measure is that in which both the previous Bills of the two
preceding Governments, as well as the opinions of every
one who has written, thought, or spoken upon the subject,
have uniformly concurred—namely, that the composition for
tithes throughout Ireland should at once cease and determine.
—( Loud cheers.) Circumstances make this act not so much
of expediency as of necessity ; and those parts which are not
so obvious in themselves receive illustration not only from all
that has been said within these walls, but from all that is said
and still doing without them ; so that I feel it superfluous to
say more on that subject. But before we approach the sub-
ject of the Bill, there comes a clause—for we must not over-
look the chapter of arrears. It will be in the recollection of
the House that the liberalit) of a former Parliament voted the
sum of one million (subject to an understanding that the, same
should be repaid) for the tithes in arrear for the years 1831,
1832, and 1833. Of this sum I understand that 640,000/.
have already been advanced. The whole million, however,
was proffered only as a temporary relief. Every tithe-owner
who chose was entitled to receive his portion, subject to a cer-
tain prescribed reduction. Those who did not choose to avail
themselves of this grant were left to the ordinary methods of
recovering their tithes, in aid of which the civil force was never
withheld, and in many cases had been applied with very unfor-
tunate results. By the Bill sent up to the House of Lords in
the last Parliament, it was enacted that the residue of the
million might be applied to any remaining arrears of tithes for
the years 1831, 1332, and 1833 ; but the repayment of the
whole million was to be by instalments during five successive
years, to be paid by the landlords in addition to certain rent
charges, to which by that Bill they would become liable. With
what precise provisions the Right lion. and Gallant Officer
opposite intended by his Bill of this session to meet the arrears
we are not quite acquainted ; and the responsibility for the
want of that knowledge rests elsewhere, inasmuch as that Right
!ion. and Gallant Officer never had the opportunity to bring
in his Bill.—( Hear.) But as far as I can collect from the state-
ment he made on the question, he meant to apply the residue
of the million to the payment of the arrears of 1834. Ido
not remember his making the least advertence to the tithes for
the years 1831, 1832, and 1833. He expressed, indeed, his
apprehension, which I believe was too well founded, that even
for the arrears for 1834 the sum in question would be greatly
inadequate. Now, with the arrears of the years 1831, 1832,
and 1833, we do not purpose to meddle. The parties to whom
they are due had the option of partaking of the liberality of
Parliament, so far as the grant of the million extended ; the
legal powers of recovery were also at their disposal ; we there-
fore think it fair to leave them to the consequence of their
own conduct ; but, with equal fairness, we do not think our-
'elves warranted to interfere with pending suits, however
much we may think it desirable to allay at once all those an-
cient grounds of irritation of which this subject has been the
fruitful source. How, then, is it that we propose to meet the
arrears of 1834? We find in mane parts of Ireland. especially
in the northern and Protestant parts, that several landlords,
under the provisions of the Act of the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for North Lancashire ( Lord Stanley), have undertaken to
Pay the clergyman his tithes, subject to a bonus of 15 per
cent. I believe that about 102,000/. composition has thus
been provided for voluntarily by the landlords. These land-
lords we propose to keep to the observance of the liability
they have voluntarily contracted. But it may be said, do
we not act unfairly in giving a preference to those who have
not chosen to impose on themselves this liability? Undoubtedly
WO do mean retrospectively as well as prosp-ectilielv to protect