The Sun.
London, England, 1835-04-02 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, APRIL 2, 1835.

Protestants you were bound to defend the present system. If it
had not been urged by the Noble Lord opposite that all they wanted
were young active curates, possessing, above all things, " nerve."
—( Cheers and laughter.) This was a very curious compliment to
all the by-gone clergymen, who, it appears from this, were not
very active, and possessed no " nerve."—(Renewed laughter.)
You have been for 300 years at work before you fished up this
" nerve," and yet no men were ever more eulogized than the Pro-
testant Clergy of Ireland—their merits had been most outrageously
eulogized.—(Hear, and a laugh.) It had been said that they had
nothing but a mere 12,0001. or 14,0001. a year, and out of this they
had subscribed some 101. or 121. in beautifying a church, and had
been great benefactors to it.—(Cries of " No, no !" from the Mi-
nisterial benches.) Well, then, they had not been benefactors of
the Church.—( Laughter.) The Right Hon. the Member for the
University of Cambridge has taken up the story of the Noble Lord;
and has remarked upon the advantages that would accrue from
having clergymen of " nerve." The Noble Lord has called my
town of Cahirciveen a village—l beg he will in future call it a
town.—(Hear and a laugh.) He had stated that some few years
ago divine service had ceased to be performed in the Protestant.
Church there. I beg to set him right. Divine service has never
ceased to be performed there, and the congregation was between
60 and 70, in a population of about 70,000. According to the re-
turns of 1821 the congregation was 74, so that instead of an in.
crease there was a diminution. When I got possession of that
property there were only five houses in the town, two Protestant
and three Catholics. In the year 1821, the number of houses was
87, and the inhibitants amounted to 205 ; and in the year 1831,
there were 189 houses, and 21 more building, and 1,195 inhabi-
tants; so that in ten years the inhabitants increased from 205 to
1,195, but the number of Protestants had not increased in the same
ratio as the population has. But would the clergymen say he had
made a single convert since he had been there ? He could not.
But I will tell him that one of the heads of a family
tnere, who was at that time a Protestant, is at the present time
a Catholic, and the clerk to the curate died a Catholic. Such is
the history of the way in which you make Protestants. It was
true there are more Protestants in the town now than formerly,
but it was owing to a relation of his own, a cousin-german, going
with ten children, all Protestants, to live there.—( Laughter.) This
is certainly a young man of nerve.—(Laughter.) He has a '
rectory at Dingle, to which he goes twice a year at shearing time,
but the flock never sees him at any other time.—(Laughter. )
He also collects the rents of Sir William Blennerhasset, and the
tithes of the clergy, and he is the most busy magistrate in all
Kerry ; but he believed he was at present feathering his family on
the Continent. This is the way in which you multiply Protes-
tants.—(Laughter.) It may serve for a moment's sport, but in
sober sadness, how does it operate upon the people of Ireland ? I
have received a letter respecting a place of which Mr. Man-
ners is the rector, where there are 4,011 Catholics, and only
three Protestants, the income being 1,500/. a year.—( Hear, hear. )
I have this upon the authority of the Rev. Mr. Young, the parish
Priest.—(Cries of " Oh" from the Ministerial side, and " Hear,
hear," from the Opposition.) He enumerated every one of them,
and wrote to me saying that there could not be a better man
living than Mr. Manners. He never sent the military or the
police to enforce the payment of tithes.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
But the composition has not been paid him for two years—
(Cheers and laughter)—though the gentleman was so well liked,
the system is so unpopular that he was not paid one shilling. How
are you to mend this ?—( Cheers.) I hope it will be admitted that
the Hon. Member for Weymouth was as good a Protestant as any
in the House, yet he entirely agrees with my principle—he says
that it is vain to suppose that the Irish people were to be Protestanized
by the means now taken ; that the people of that country are to be made
Christians by the bayonets of policemen or the muskets of the sol-
diery. The Right Hon. and Gallant Secretary for Ireland, and
no man would suspect him of attempting to misrepresent his inten-
tions—but what signify those intentions when he is surrounded by
the Protestant ascendancy party who have religion on their tongues,
while their hearts are filled with hate ?—( Groans from the Minis-
terialists, and cheers from the Opposition.) The History of Ire- ,
land proves my position, and now is the time for the administration to
consider whether they are to take up and be nursed by that party, or if
the pcior of Ireland are to have their case at all taken into consi-
deration. Something must be done for Ireland—the Gallant Ge-
neral, the Secretary for Ireland, has told you that tithes cannot be
collected under tho old form, and he calls upon you—upon the
people of England—to pay one million, one more million—the
people of England are to pay this whole million for the power of
misgoverning Ireland.—( Cheers.) The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer would not give up the million if he had the slightest
chance—the slightest hope of ever recovering it. We have heard
much of law—let us try now—will any one Member in the House
tell me that the money is not due? Then why is it not called up?
The Gallant Officer has told you the reason you could not by any
means in your power get it. Though the people of Ireland have not,
like their brethren of Scotland, turned out upon the hills with their
keen swords by their sides, yet it is confessed by the Govern-
ment that the feeling is so strong in that country, that
it is impossible that the million can ever be recovered.—(Hear. )
I hope the Member for Londonderry is within hearing. Had the
House heard of the determination come to in that country since
the landlords had taken upon themselves the payment of tithe ? I
had the fact from an authority so high, that if .I named him, and I
should not for a moment hesitate to do so in private, there is not a
Gentleman on the other side who would not admit that
my authority is incapable of deceiving me. Thus we have
the North equally with the South forming in a resistance to tithe.
But what will be the consequence in the South ? I implore Hon.
Gentlemen whether they are satisfied that they can make Protes-
tants by this system, or whether they are satisfied that they should
not make Protestants by such a system, to pause before they come
to a vote between the hopes of the people of Ireland, and the en-
deavour to suffocate those hopes by the plan of turning the land-
lords into tithe agents.=(Loud and continued cheering.) It
will only make the case infinitely worse, and the Whiteboyism
which assailed tithes before, would now assail rent as well as tithes
with equal eagerness and desperation.—(Hear, hear.) Is this
system to continue? The Noble Lord (the Member for Devon-
shire) holds out hopes, which were well re-echoed by the Noble
Lord, the Member for Northumberland (Howick.) I wish the
Noble Lord, the Member for Lancashire (Stanley) would join both
of those Noble Lords--(Hear, hear)—and why should he not ?
(Loud cheers and laughter.) He had voted for the 147th
clause, and if he has changed, why should he not change
back again—( Cheers. ) Is perpetual service to be placed in the way
of improvement ? We are told that the surplus is small. Yes,
but the principle is great—(Loud cheering.) It should be worked
out thus—that as Protestantism diminishes it ought to diminish,
and if it increases it (the means of the Church we suppose) ought
to increase. The Hon. Member for Weymouth said that as
Protestantism increased, the revenues ought to increase, and
the very moment he said so the reverse of the proposition
occurred to me—(Hear, hear, hear.) But the Hon. Gentlemen
on the other side are afraid of a Catholic ascendancy. This is not
a period to be afraid of the establishment of any ascendancy. The
time of ascendancies is gone, except in England. This is the only
country where the clergymen of all classes, when they differ from
the religion of the State, are not paid equally by the State. Go
to America, will you find it there ?—( Cheers.) In every State of
Europe we are become a laughing-stock, and an object of contempt.
Talk of the Catholic ascendancy in Ireland ! Why the Catholics
of Ireland were three times in power since the rebellion, and they
never persecuted the Protestants. In the reign of Queen Mary,
while she was desolating England by persecution, and persons on
scaffolds and stakes were burned in London and Bristol, what was
the conduct of the Catholic Corporation of Dublin? Did they
persecute ? Look at Harris's History of that period, as inimical a
writer as ever wrote against the Catholic religion, and there you
find that the Catholic Corporation of Dublin, oh, how unlike its
successor !--(hear, hear, and laughter)—actually opened 70
dwelling houses for the English Protestants flying from Bristol,
with their families, from the persecution of Catholic Mary,
and kept them in security, and nurtured them all free of
expense for a year and a half, until death relieved the country
from the persecution of that unfortunate Queen. 7-( Cheers.) You
taunt some Hon. Members for introducing the state of Belgium.
Are you aware that is a Catholic Parliament, that is, there is no ex-
clusion of Protestants from the House of Commons, and that the
Catholic clergy are as eligible for a seat in the House ; and, upon
a late occasion when it was proposed to make a grant to a Protestant
clergyman in Brussels for the benefit of the English there, it was put
to the vote, and was carried by an overwhelming majority, three of
the Catholic Clergy having voted for the grant, and only one being
found bigotted enough to oppose it—( Hear)—while all over the world
the symptoms of charity and benevolence exist. It is only in Ire-
land that you foster discord.—(Hear, hear.) You come into office,
you place their henchmen at the head of the State—you cram the
Privy Council with them—(Cheers)—and they, through respect to
you, carry on the Government amidst blood and burning.—
(Cries of " No, no," from the Ministerial side of the House),
reiterated by cheers from the Opposition.) Yes ; blood !—( Cheers. )
But what does the Parliament propose now to do ? Will they rally
round the people of Ireland ? Will they throw the shield of their
protection over her? The remedies that should be applied to the
case of Ireland were well described by Johnson years ago. Bos-
well, in his life of Johnson, is said to have burst forth and asked—
" Pray Mr. Dilly"—(Loud laughter.) He (Mr. O'C.) wished
that the modern Dilly's would act in the same manner.—(Conti-
nued laughter.) Mr. O'C. then proceeded to read the passage,
the substance of which was that ,in Ireland the majority
had long been under the sway of the minority, and
that there was no instance in the ten persecutions
to equal the oppressions which were inflicted by the Protestants
upon the Catholics of Ireland, If they were sold as they were con-
quered it would be fair, but you cannot sell them, nor can you
conquer them. Therefore the best thing you can do, is to do the
country justice.—( Cheers. ) It may be said that I am disposed to
advocate a Repeal of the Union. I am, but how do you propose
to reconcile me to a contrary course ? Is it by refusing to do
justice to Ireland. We have heard a great deal of cant about good
intentions towards Ireland, and on this motion they had seen the
rats scuttling across the room—they had every thing but fair declara-
tions on the subject of this great question. My opinion is in favor of
i
Repeal of the Union. I am ready to give up that question f justice is
done to Ireland. I am told that this Parliament will do as much
justice to Ireland as that country might expect_from an Irish Par-
liament. Don't tell us that such are your intentions, but shew us
some practical proofs of your sincerity. The Right Hon. Bart.
(Sir. J. Graham) has quoted a speech of mine that was hastily
delivered. My opinions, I' admit, are strong, and sometimes car-
ried to an extreme ; but do I not know, and does not every
Hon. Gentleman know, that no good Government was ever yet
formed except on a compromise of opposite opinions, and a recon-
ciliation of extremes. Robespierre and Marat, with a guillotine at
their backs, succeeded, after all, only in establishing a more
iron despotism than what they desired to abolish.—( Hear. )
Ireland is ready, and I am ready, to enter into a compromise.
She is now in the throes of agony at the exhibition of the Orange
flag, and would unwillingly, if the Government combined with her,
enter into that compromise. You tell her to wait awhile, but if
she does wait awhile she may rise in the wild pangs of revenge, and
reek her vengeance upon the most innocent. That, Sir, is the
state of Ireland. There never was a period so well adapted as the
present to do good to Ireland. All we require is justice, and we
call upon the House to show that it is disposed to do so. I called
upon the House in the last Session to do justice to Ireland—it re-
sponded to my call, and passed the Tithe Bill ! Our Church re-
mains unpolluted by the mammon of unrightcousness. It is not
less efficacious for its purposes. The voluntary principle has an-
swered everypurpose for us; we therefore call upon you to adopt this
motion, which, if you are sincere Protestants, you ought to adopt;
for it is a motion to adapt the surplus revenue of the Church to
education. You say the Papists are ignorant—give us the money
to instruct us, and you put us upon the road to learning. Give us
this motion, and let religion have fair play ; refuse it, and you send
a proclamation to Ireland that will fill the country with horror and
dismay.—( Great cheering. )
Sir ROBERT PEEL rose amidst much cheering, and addressed
the House as follows :—Sir, It. is because I take very much the
same view of the construction which is to be put upon the intention
an I effect of this motion—it is because I believe it will be considered
in Ireland as a proclamation—it is because I believe fallacious hopes
will be excited in the hearts of the Roman Catholics, and fear inspired
in the breasts of the Protestants, unless you act with circumspection
--it is because I feel these things that I am induced to overcome the
disinclination which every man, whatever may be his experience in
addressing public assemblies, must feel when every argument has
already been used and enforced with great ability ; and nothing but
a sense of duty in the situation I fill would now induce me to make
an appeal to the attention of the llcuse.—(At such a time as the

present, when Ireland is convulsed, we are called upon to decide
great question, and to determine what steps shalt be taken re-
specting it.. We aee called upon to decide upon a right which had
almost lec nue obsolete ; but it is also time for Parliament to as-
sert its r.ghts, which, if suffered longer to remain in desuetude,
may run the danger of being lost alt.Jgether.—( Hear, hear,
hear.) S.) deeply impressed am I with 'the importance of this
subject the I will pass over a great part of the discussion which
has takkn place. I will pass over all personal allusions, all criinina-
tions and recriminations.—(Hear, hear:) I have little confidence
in my own infallibility, and I have no inclination to divert the at-
tention of the House from the important question before it to
I answer any gratification or purpose of my own. In deciding
' this great question there are four courses open to you,
and only four. They might a Ihere to the existing law,
which was to confine Church property to its present destination.
As your first course you may gay that this property is excessive—
you may discourage all false expectations ; but this I say is all the
amount you may take from us.. The second position you may take
cup is that all that shall remain in our own possession ; and the third
tourse is this—that we have no ?reference for one religion over ane-
ther. We will do justice, but we will destroy the predominance of
the Established religion. This is the third course ; but there is
yet another—there is a fourth course—a course weare about to
decide—the appointment of its pecuniary interests, and to those
tithes to be scrambled for by an unhappy people. I ask nothing
with respect to the public service. I lay down no principle on which
it can be defined, but call in an uncertainty to take the untenable
position of applying an imaginary right--and for what, but to an
unprofitable surplus ?—( Cheers. ) You may do more if we can
do more, but you may do less. You may bring your arguments in
support of the three courses you have laid down, which tend
to the destruction of the Protestant Establishment ; but you may
shrink from your own principles, and then invite us to take up
your own positions, for your own arguments are untenable.—
(Cheers.) I would not only not determine the amount of excep-
tion, but I will not indicate to you how that test shall be decided.
I will leave that to any Government or any man ; 'all that I say is,
that if there be a surplus, I will place it to something.—(Cheers. )
If there be more Protestants, the Protestants shall have more. I
will give you opportunities of preventing the increase of
that dominion which your enemies have endeavoured to
exert over you ; but if there should be more Roman Ca-
tholics, I will give it to those by whom our funds and
emoluments have been increased. We wish to have every infor-
mation, and to ascertain all the bearings of the Church on this
estate. But you will not wait until the report of )our own Com-
mission even is completed, or until you can arrange the principles
of your own enactments. You thought it convenient to
oppose the first measure introduced by Government, and in
order to advance .your abstract theory. But this resolution
is full of practical details, and in its results will reach
the remotest parish in Ireland. You chose to submit to those, and
I appeal in proof of the assertion to the speech of the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman which you have just heard, to those who wish
for the destruction of the establishment. Sir, I am prepared to
adopt one of the plans to which I have referred. lam prepared to
assert the right of the existing law. All I ask is to be permitted
calmly to state to the House the grounds on which I come to this
decision. Sir, there are other parties equally anxious ,for the
result of our debate • and who look with equal eagerness for our
decision as the datholics—l mean the Protestants of Ireland.

I do not assert that if you chose to come to the resolution
and decide in opposition to what I conceive to be the public in-
terests—if you wish to violate what is established by long prescrip-
tion—and if you desire to interfere with established law, I do not
mean to deny the absolute and abstract right of the Legislature to
act upon its views. But I assert that you ought to be convinced
by argument before you come to that conclusion. There are the
great measures affecting the condition of the Protestants of
Ireland, and of the Catholics also.—(Hear, hear.) There
was first the measure of the Union, differing from a law in
this respect, that it carried with it the force of a national com-
pact, and contained within the conditions on which a Legislature
resigned its rights. The Catholics were not, adverse to it.—( Cries
of "Oh ! Oh !" from the Irish Members.) The Protestants
were not opposed to it, and in the compact it was expressly pro-
vided that the rights and privileges of the United Chambers of
England and Ireland should continue the same. The Hon. Mem-
ber for St. Albans attempted to shew by resolutions, and extract from
the speeches of Mr. Pitt, that some right was reserved to the Church
in the Act of Union with respect to civil disabilities ; but I contend
that there was no right reserved to deal with the property of
the Church. The Protestant reads these words in the Act of
Union, and if their meaning is to be determined by a plain reference
to the ordinary sense of these words, can there be a doubt what
their intent is ? The Act provides, " that the maintenance and
preservation of the Established Church, as the United Church of
England and Ireland, shall be deemed, and taken to be an essential
and fundamental part of the Union." There is a previous stipu-
lation that the doctrine, disc:; line, and government of that Church
shall be maintained.--( Hear, hear, hear.) Parliament did
not let it rest there—it stipulated as a part of the compact
that the maintenaece and preservation of that Church should be an
essential and fundamental part of the Union. In the year 1829,
the Roman Catholic disabilities were removed, and although I
might say that that Act has not the force of such a compact as the
Act of Union, yet I should say that it is irrevocable, and only to
be revoked by some important and eventful circumstance. I con-
sider it irrevocable as regards theliberties of the Roman Catholics,
and it ought to be irrevocable as regards the assurances given to
the Government at that period.—(Cheers from the Ministerial
side.) By that Act, the Government was led to believe

_
that there would be entertained no intention to subvert the
present Church, as established by law, within this realm.—
( Cheers.) They had been led to believe that no privileges that
Act conferred would be exercised to disairo c: weaken the Protes-
tant religion, or Protestant Government, as by law ee:e2elished,
within the realm. They had been told that the removal of
the Civil Disabilities of the Roman Catholics would give new
security to the Church of Ireland. They had been told that
their removal would redress the injustice of which the Hon. and
Learned Member complained ; but they were not aware that within
five years from the passing of that Act the power which it had con-
ferred would be exercised to subvert that Church Establishment—
(Tremendous and reiterated cheers from the Ministerialists)—
so far at least as the property of the Church was concerned, and
they were not aware that by consenting to the removal of those
disabilities they would have been called on to remove the Church
which lad conceded these privileges. You passed another Act only
two years since for the Reform of the Church of Ireland—and you
cut off no less than 10 of the Bishops of that Church. You determined,
and in my opinion wisely, to review the state of the Church of Ireland.
You said, in my opinion wisely, that ecclesiastical sinecures shall
follow the same course that has been taken by those of a civil na-
ture—a power was indeed taken by one clause of the original Bill
by which that property of the Church having no interest with the
other was to be applied to secular purposes ; but by the subsequent
abandonment of that particular clause, you said you would hold
ecclesiastical property for ecclesiastical purposes.—( Great cheer-
ing.) Two years only have passed since that time, and notwith-
standing the Act of Union—notwithstanding the Act by which ten
bishoprics were abolished—two years only have elapsed when the Hon.
Member for Dublin comes forward and tells you you must issue a new
proclamation for Ireland, and establish a new system of Govern-
ment for that country.—( Cheers, and loud cries of " No, no.")
The Hon. Gentleman the Member for St. Alban's tells you, that
you having done away with some of the abuses of the Church ; you
have dealt with Church property, and set a precedent for the pre-
sent proposition. The Hon. Member for St. Alban's, notwithstanding
the caution of the Noble Lord, had plunged deep and at once into
the bog, and attempted to cross it, and because that I, being waffled
by the example of the Hon. Gentleman, am determined to avoid
that fate—l confess I saw with considerable pain the Hon. Mem-
ber floundering in the middle of the bog—there he stuck ; and he
had not passed beyond that point, so long as I heard him.—
(Cheers.) The reason no doubt was, that he was entangled with
the weight of his own arguments.—(Cheers. lf Hon. Gentle-
men would prepare themselves with all thenowledge collected
from the time of Noah down to his own, he must expect
to be left deep in the Serbonian Bog.—( Great cheering. )
What has been the whole course of the law? What was the prin-
ciple in respect to first fruits, and the Curate Act, except that for
the benefit of the Church you had a right to redress individual
abuses ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) Nothing can justify the appro-
priation of Church property to any other than to eccle-
siastical purposes, and I shall not discuss any other ap-
aropriation of Church property.-4 Cheers from the Opposition.)
Wy should I be called upon to discuss any contingency, when I am
only desirous of touching upon the practical question ? I desire
to avoid all superfluous discussion, and therefore I refuse to discuss
hypothetical questions. The Noble Lord said the surplus was
791,000/., but I doubt if it amounts to 450,000/.—(Hear, hear. )
Now that is a &Teat difference, and would it not be premature to
discuss the application of a surplus, the amount of which was not
known. At one time the amount was stated to be 800,0001. It
was not 791,0001., it is not more than 450,0001.-(Cheers.) I
ask the House whether they will come to a resolution pledging
to appropriate this sum ?—( Great Cheering.) I ask the Noble
Lord again that question ?—( Hear ) I ask him whether he has
made any estimate for the demands for national education ? I ask
the House whether it is right to form an opinion respecting the ap-
plication of a surplus without some estimate? I wish the Noble
Lord would answer this question. The Noble Lord assumes the
revenue of the Irish Church to be 791,0001., and he proposes to
apply the surplus to purposes of education. I ask again what is the
estimate for the demand of education? Does any man believe that
100,000/. will be required for this purpose? I will give 200,000/.
to be so applied-200,000/. a year. I entreat the House, if they
arc anxious in the cause of education, before they determine to
overload education with superfluous wealth, to require some esti-
mate as to the application of this money. But, supposing this de-
mand to be 200,000/., which is the mo=t that by possibility can be
applied to education, still it will leave the Chut oh of Ireland in
possession of 591,000/. The resolution itself, allowing 200,000/. for
the purposes of education, does not consider the remaining 591,000/.
too large an endowment for the, Church.—( Great cheering.) I
assert that the Irish Church have not more than 450,0e0/. I
want an answer to this argument.—(Cheers.) There is this im-
portant difference between us. I have shown that even if the
Noble Lord (Russell) is correct is his statement, and if 200,000/.
is required for education, and the resolution is limited to this, still
it will leave the Irish Church in possession of the surplus.—
(Cries of Hear, hear.") I have shown that it will have the
Irish Church in possession of 591,0001., but I assert that the
Church has not at the present moment more than 450,000/.
( Great cheering.) Upon what principle could the House legislate
respecting an appropriation ?—( Great cheering.) I do not ask
you to decide the question to-night. I only ask you not to allow
the Noble Lord to go into Committee for the purpose of involving
ourselves in these errors.—(Cheers.) This is a matter of
too much importence to be trifled with.—( Hear.) Have
we not a right to insist upon the Noble Lord (Russell) produ-
ciug some practical plan if it were only to prevent extravagant
hopes and discontent. This resolution will not give satisfaction to
the people of this •ountry, to the people of Ireland, to the Protes-
tents of Ireland, aye or to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, if you
undertake in this stage of the business, without waiting for the re-
port, to which I do not attach much value, if you undertake
to pledge the House to a resolution which is unnecessary for the
purpose of effecting its object. You say—and you say with truth—
that the Irish Church has not hitherto succeeded in attaining the
_ .

great object for which it was instituted. I wish to -discuss that
point. I know there can be no advantage in concealing
what constitutes the real stress of the argument opposed
to me. You say the Irish Protestant Establishment
has failed in obtaining the object for which it was in-
stituted, that there are not more than a million of Protestants,
that there had been no proof of rapid conversions, that the
Roman . Catholic:,, in print of number, still maintain their ascen-
lancY ; and that as the Protestant Establishment has failed in
attaining its object, that you are at liberty to appropriate its reve-
nues to secular purposes —( Hear, hear.) Now I say there . have
Leon causes in operation which have prevented the growth
and extension -cf Protestantism, but which at this moment
have ceased to exist.—(Hear, hear.) If that is the case,
if those causes are no longer in operation, then, I sly, you
are not justified in arguing on the existence of that Wlii‘th
is past, and in awrop:iating a strp:us which might not be ne-
es',.ary if the past were to endure ; but because the past is not to
endure, therefore it is necessary, for the spirituel wants of the
people, that no such appropriation should take p-a,l•e. In the first
place, you have i emoved the civil disabilities—yai have Int the
Protestant and Catholic on a footing of equalk. Then the main

/ Y ~

argument you have against the existence of those civil disabilities
was this—that while those civil disabilities continue, a pre-
judice was sure always to be entertained against the Protestant
religion—that there was an impediment of pride which you could
not overcame ; but that is altogether removed, the impediment is
gone, there can be no obstacle of pride to the Protestant, there is
perfect equality. You state that there were abuses in the Church—
that there was an inequality in the distribution of its revenues—l
say those abuses have ceased to exist, and that if they continue,
shall cease to exist. The time is come when these abuses must be
removed. The time is come when Parliament must interfere.

Another case is the surplus wealth of the Clergy of the south of Ire-
land—you have taken effectual measures to remove that. The
wealth of the Clergy of the south of Ireland ! -Talk of the trap-
pings of luxury and the surplus wealth of those who have been
robbed of their incomes for the last four year's ! It is possible in the
inscrutable ways of Providence, the sufferings they have undergone,
and the patience with ,which they have borne them—it is possible
the extremity of their sufferings, and the patience with which they
have endured, may conciliate parties towards them, and make their
efforts in the cause of religion more effectual.—( Cheers. ) If the
causes which have prevented, in some respects, Protestantism, have
been removed, what right have you to depend upon the assumption
of circumsthmees? You are not now going to determine whether
you shall divide among the Church of Ireland a sum of
400,0001. or 500,00 a, but whether you shall apply it
to other purposes. You have now 1,100 churches in Ireland—is it
the intention of the Noble Lord to put that down ? What do you
mean to do with the existing state of things—do you mean to encou-
rage the Protestant landlord to reside upon his property, and do you
mean to tell him the first things that will strike his eye will be the
dilapidated state of the Church which now exists ?—(Loud
cheers.) Sir, I call the attention of the Honourable Mem-
ber for Weymouth to this part of the case. I call his
attention to the last report of the Commissioners acting under the
Church Temporalities Bill passed by the late Government. I en-
treat his attention, and that of every man who wishes well to the
Church to this. —( Cries of " Oh.) Yes, yes, those who made these
exclamations know that there are many who are dissatisfied
with the progress of this night's debate.---( Hear, hear, hear. )
I understand that exclamation perfectly well—l know, I repeat,
that many are dissatisfied with the progress which this debate has
already made.—(Cheers renewed.) There are many who have
not their minds made up, and who, if the debate now terminated,
would not be decided on the principle of the resolution.—( Here
some Hon. Gentleman exclaimed—Oh !) I am not, said the Right
, Hon. Gentleman, addressing myself to you, Sir—(Loud cheers)_

I have no hope of your conforming in consequence of any rea-
soning you may hear. Ido not address myself to one who
has taken so prominent and conspicuous a part as you—but
to those who are somewhat less determined as to the course
they maypumue.—( Cheers.) I shall now refer to the report
made under the late Administration to which I was alluding. The
first name on this report was the Archbishop of Dublin. It stated
that the Church Commissioners had the satisfaction to report that
applications were forced upon them for aid to build additional
churches, as the accommodation in the parishes was insufficient for
the congregations of persons belonging to the Established Church,
and that while the Commissioners were unable to do so, the parties
expressed their willingness co contribute, some one-fifth, some one
half, and others three-fourths of the expense towards building the
churches. The Commissioners expressed their regret that as they
had no superfluous funds, there was no prospect of their applica-
tion being favourably entertained. I now intend to address myself
to the argument of the Hon. Member far Weymouth, who was de-
termined to support the Protestant establishment. He thinks that
the surplus revenues of the church ought to be available to pur-
poses of education. I, on the contrary, think that there exists a
necessity now for appropriating these revenues to the existing spi-
ritual wants of the people--( Hear, hear, hbar. ) That Honour-
able Gentleman proposed to send to Ireland a number of Pro-
testant clergymen whose zeal would supply the deficiences now
complained of by example of industry and piety, and diffuse feelings of
confidence and religion through the country. I differ with him as
to the policy of such a project, and if I succeed in convincing him
that it would not be successful, I hope he will conform to my opi-
nions. The Noble Lord, as I do, condemned the interference of
intemperate zeal in the furtherance of religion. The precepts of a
pious clergyman would surely be increased in efficiency by the
example of his domestic virtues. It is much better to allot to a
clergyman sufficient to maintain himself and his family, that he
may, by the exhibition of domestic peace and happiness, make a
practical impression on his flock, than to trust to extraordinary vir-
tue or zeal to produce that effect.—( Hear, hear.) When I look
to the deficient system of education in Ireland—to the means
possessed by the clergy of influencing the humbler classes, I
deprecate the practice of encouraging extraordinary zeal, and
of leaving the clergyman in poverty in the midst of his flock. I
will ask the Hon. Members opposite, when they reflect on the edu-
cation and acquirements which are required in a clergyman, and
on the general absence of all society in Ireland which an educated
man is accustomed to, what sum they consider, necessary for the
maintenance of a clergyman and his family? There are 1,400
clergymen in Ireland. Would the Hon. Gentleman opposite re-
move 200 or 300 from that number ? There were 1,400 clergy-
men and 600 curates ; and after making what deduction from that
number the Hon. Gentleman may think necessary, what income
would they allot a clergyman ? But if they will allow that that in-
come-should amount to 3001., it is not too much to ask that the whole
of the Irish Church revenues shall be devoted to eceleSiastical purposes.
I cannot pass by the argument of the Hon. Member for Cambridge
—it seems to have made a great impression on the House.—(Hear,
hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman's argument was this—that by
the ordinary endowment of the Irish Church, there was this pecu-
niary charge on account of religion, that there was no injury done
in applying the revenues of the Church to the purposes of educa-
tion. After ten days debate—after every one who had spoken had
had maintained the endowments of the Church to be serviceable
to secular purposes, he comes down and tells us he will solve all
this. I will prove the education to be for an c,:cks.astical purpose.
(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) I hold in my hand a report on
the principle of education, drawn up by the Hon. Gentleman
opposite. It was made so late as the year 1828, and abounds in
twenty-two or twenty-three resolutions. It refers to the Act of
Henry Bth. There is a specific reference to that Act, but not one
word is said cf education being a pecuniary charge on the Church.
The Right Hon. Gentleman did not then advocate here gratuitous
education. You are going to decide on this subject. I ask you to
pause before givingyour decision. I utterly deny that the application
of 120,0001. to the purposes of education Would do good. lam
fearful it would do more harm than good. There is, as I before stated,
in this report a reference to the Act of Henry VIII., it is, as I
believe, the plan as adopted by the Noble Lord ; but there is not
one syllable about education being chargeable on the Church. One
of the resolutions continued, that it is the opinion of this Com-
mittee that Parliamentary aid should be restricted to the following
uses in the relief of parishes, and in the erecting of parochial
schools, but with this proviso, that such aid was not to exceed two-
thirds of the sum required.—(Hear.) The subject was not to
save pecuniary charge ; it was to invite local assistance ; th s
was, in his opinion, a bad principle to apply this local relief ;
you do more harm than good in relieving the resident gen-
tlemen of that exertion, which was their duty alike with
them interest to extend in cases of local demands. Observe what
the object of the resolution is. It is confined to the purposes of
education. 1 assert, as boldly as the Right Hon. Gentleman, that
the object of the Act of Henry VIII. was to establish and confirm the
' power of the Established Church, and I maintain the inference drawn
by him as to right is directly at variance with facts. The object of
the Act of Henry VIII. was to confirm the power of the Protestant
religion by supporting the rights of the Protestant Church. The Act
recites that a knowledge of divine truths was essential to education.
The Act passed after the annihilation of the power of the Pope,
so far as that could be effected by law in temporal matters—many
years after the statutes of premunire,_ after Henry had been de-
clared head of the Church, after he had been declared to possess

the full right to the temporal possessions of the Church, and the
first provision in the Act was one requiring the Clergyman to teach
or cause to be taught a school in which the principles of the
Establishment would be inculcated, by placing education
under the controul of the Clergyman. I assert that the
object of the Act, that the intention of the Statute of
Henry the Bth was not pecuniary contribution but superinten-
dance. I should lilt to argue this question with the Hon. Gen-
tleman. He has observed that the Act required not superinten-
tendance, but contribution. I maintain the contrary. :l he Hon.

Gentleman contends for the former view of the case, and he there-
fore justifies the, appropriation of Church revenues to the purposes
of education. The Act requires a payment by the clergyman, of
4s. a year towards keeping a school. Is their any analogy between
the clergyman to observe the obligations of the statute and the
principle laid down by the Right Honourable Gentle-
man, that we had a right to seize on the revenues of
the Church ?—(Hear, hear.) If there be no analogy his argument
falls to the ground. The Right Hon. Gentleman may endeavour
to show that the report of the Commissioners bears him out in his
view—a Commission not appointed by me, and which consists of
Mr. F. Lewis, of Mr. Leslie, of Mr. Blake, a Roman Catholic,
and of Mr. Grant. All the extracts which the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman read to the House, tend not in confirmation of his opinions,
but to establish the principles laid down in the Act of Henry the
Eighth. These Commissioners avow plainly, that the Act of
Henry the Eighth was not a provision for a pecuniary con-
tribution, but a superintendence—( Loud and continued cheer-
ing)—and that it did impose the latter duty.—( Renewed cheers. )
This Act, after reciting among other things the importance of good
instruction in the principles of religion, proceeds after an enactment
for the suppression of the Irish language, and enforcing the teach-
ing of the English, to direct that the Clergyman sha'l keep,
or cause to be kept within the parish in which he shall possess
any -.benefice or other Church preferment, a school for the
cdusation of the people, and shall take care, that the same
stipend be paid to the teacher as is accustomed to be
paid in such place. —Hear.) Now it is clear from this that it was
the duty of the clergyman fo advocate the education ofithe poor—
what then became of the argument of the Right Hon. Gent., that
the Act of Henry VIII. authorised the appropriation of the cccte-
siastical revenues to general instruction unconnected with the
Church.--(Cheers.) That argument is utterly without toanda-
tion, and so far from slims ing thnt this Act authorised the appro-
priation of Church revenues, the object was to connect education
with the superintendence of the Church. I beg to refer tlee Righ:h
Hon. Gentleman to the Act which was introduced by myself a few
years since, for the regulation of Diocesati Schools, which
recognised this very principle, and which enabled the
Lord-Lieutenant to establish schools in every Diocese;
but had I brought in a Bill to tax the Clergymen
for the support of these Diocesan schools, with what a burst of
laughter would net such a proposition have been received by the
other side of the House, and particularly by the Hon. Member for
Middlesex, if I had attempted to show that there was any connec-
tion between the avowed objects of the Act of Henry the Eigth,
and the appropriation of a pittance of the ecclesiastical re-
venues to the support of these schools. With respect to
the appropriation of the surplus revenue, I believe that there
could not be a more improper mode of disposing of it.—(Hear.)
I bring you high authority ; the Commissioners' report showed
that there was not a country in which there existed greater means
of education than there did in Ireland. The Commissioners re-
commended that the schools should be founded upon the system of
day schools, with the admission of some free scholars ; but the
proposition now before you goes directly in the contrary direction ;
it says that you should make gratuitous education the principle,
while payment should be the exception.—(Cries of No.) You do
not—that is what I complain of. You do not give any estimate of
the sum you expect as a surplus. I charge you with making a mis-
take of 250,0001., with 'which you deceive the country. I charge
you with pressing on the question—with making a surplus appear
when you have no information on the subject, and even if you sanc-
tion the principle, to which I will never consent : but even if
you sanction that principle, sanction it without due consideration,
Sir, if the Noble Lord carries his motion, he will in the Committee
move a certain resoluttota—the Noble. Lord is not very c'_ear as to
the principle by which he is actuated. Ou the Friday, the Noble
Lord announced that the surplus was to be appropriated to the mo-
ral and re..igious instruction of the peole without any distinction.
I say most emphatically that that implied the principle of the en-
dowment of the Catholic Church.—(Great cheering, and cries of
—No, no.) Then why did the Noble Lord alter his resolution to
the general system of education ?—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Of course I cannot dive into the recesses of the Noble Lord's m;nl,
but all his arguments went to chew that the Church cnly scale
Roman Catholics. If tl.is establishmeet be the nuisance yea ba:c
described it, if the church is a charge forced upon then, and cons-

-~~

ytsdheoeliurss_ere is
abbeyyq tsiihui
resolution?rep eppmea o
ipnn ltgess
I;at,shhtaatt,be
we d,
you
hlgyeie:ll,oi
they
hleaerouyengeqchouonemeas
it, how can you deceive your-
selves thereconcile
ur
readpreeoyspoollueur
resolution—(cheers
speechese(l acniideacnblsi
from the Opposition)--I say they will laugh at your resolution
when they find you talk of it as the settlement of the question.—
( Chee:ts from the Ministerial side.) The Member for Devon-
shire, in introducing this resolution, made use of these words :
" I am one of those who are-anxious to maintain religion and pro-
mote good order, but as the friends of the United Kingdom, I call
upon you to observe whether the Church can make the same de-
fence, and say it has maintained religion and promoted good
order." 'But that Church is to be maintained !—(Hear, hear. )
I thought you were going to curtail certain establishments
Like the Catholic Bill, which began with " whereas the removal
of civil disabilities will tend-to promote the prosperity of the
Church—this measure is to commence with " whereas the curtail-
ment of the Church will tend to promote the prosperity of the
Church.—(Hear,) The Right Hon. Member for St. Albans said
taking America, France, or Scotland, it was found in every instance
the remuneration of the Clergy was always in proportion to the
service performed, except in Ireland. The Hon. Member for
Halifax (C. Wood) asked " where was there to be found in any
country a system of Church Establishment where a rich
Church with a small congregation was maintained at the
expense of an overwhelming majority belonging to another
Church, whose feelings were insulted; and whose property was
to red for the maintenance of one Church Establishment to which
they did not belong, and for the support of their own." Tho Hon.
Member for Shaftesbury (Mr. Poulter) made this observation,
" that no length of time nor lapse of ages would induce him to
concur in a great national grievarice." I ask those who heard
these expressions, who heard the arguments and the resolution—l
ask them whether they imply the same? It is most important that
a final settlement should be made when you are going to
impose this additional charge upon the landlords of Ireland, to be
received from the Roman Catholic tenants. Ido not believe that
it is necessary to open the eyes of the people to the fallacy attempted
to be made. They know well that the arguments of Hon. Gentle-
men on the other side do not correspond with their sentiments.—
Would this resolution tend to the final settlement of the question,
or to the ace and tranquillity of Ireland?—(Cries of " Hear,
hear, hear.") Why, the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin
cads it the first instalment.—(Great cheering.) I have been
taunted with the course. I have pursued—l have been taunted with
inconsistency—but I can tell Hon. Gentlemen that there is a
course still more fatal—it is that of being in the rear of one's own
arguments—(Loud cheers)—to shoot an arrow and search for it in
the pace where it lies. There may be an excuse for being in the rear.
That doctrine, that public men are always to anticipate public opi-
nion--that they are always to be looking out for the first indication
of public opinion, and provide against the event that might happen
—that doct .:ne, I have no doubt, is very popular ; but depei d upon
it, if any public man takes that course, he will unsettle the minds
of the people of this country. But you do take up positions
which in your hearts you feel are wrong. I see in the
senile of the Honourable Member for Middlesex, he is much too
shrewd to be united by this resolution,—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
He may vote for the resolution, knowing the principle of it, but he
will find out with me, that it is a mere pretence of applying the
surplus revenue to education, and then he will bring forward his
resolution of 1824, and will argue where is the use of not enforcing
it? lam not looking behind now. lam now looking into the
womb of futurity, and I feel as certain of what it will produce as
lam of what the facts are. I feel as certain as lamof my own
existence, that the Hon. Member for Middlesex is too manly to be
satisfied with the principle involved in this resolution, if it be meant
to be a final settlement of the question. And it is because I know
this, because I know that you yourselves have rendered untenable
the position which you wish to take in common with you—it is for
that reason, as well as for others, for that main and predominant
reason, I will not consent to appropriate this property to purposes
other than Ecclesiastical connected with the Protestant Esta-
blishment.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But I know also that this
is a delusive resolution that sends not peace, but the sword—
( Hear)—that it will excite fallacies which you will shrink from
disappointing ; it is because I feel that. will the force of the other
arguments against it, that I oppose this reslution. I give the
N able Lord fair notice of the course I intend to pursue, I
mean to oppose his motion for a committee ; and should
he succeed in getting a Committee, I mean to oppose the Noble
Lord's resolution, and lastly, it is my intention to oppose with all
my strength the communication of his resolution to the Crown—
(cheers from the Ministerial side)—because it is unprecedented
and novel, and the course it proposes unnecessary for the purposes
it professes to accomplish. The intention of it was to indicate
evidently to the country that they would pass by the House of
Lords. If that was the course meant to be adopted, it should
have been taken honestly, but it was a fitting course for such a
resolution. Why not embody the resolution in an address, and
send it to the House of Lords? Had they doubts as to this their
matuee deliberate plan, which they hesitated to send to the other
branch of Legislature ? They must have considered the course
worthy of the resolution—(cheers)—when they seek such an un-
fair and dishonest pretence for passing by the House of Lords.
The King will relinquish certain rights by the passing of
this Bill, and in doing so he must signify his assent to that measure
by thrt modest kind of intimation weigh his Ministers always com-
municate. Was the course then respectful to his Majesty, or fair
or honest to the country ? I trust that the House will never con-
sent to adopt that principle, bui if it should, by whom shall the Re-
solution be presented ? If the Hon. Member for Middlesee will
allow me I will suggest three Hon. Members, the Noble Lord who
has proposod the Resolution, the Hon. Member fir Middlesex, and
the Hon. Member for Dublin. Will the Noble Lord thank me for
the felicity of the suggestion, an Englishman, an Irishman, and
a Scotehman.—(Cheers.) it is not for me to anticipate what the
answer will be, if it were possible to suggest it I think the Noble
Lord would spare me the pain and necessity of stating it. Now
with respect to the Noble Lord, and his qualifications to present the
Address, he advised the Commission of last year, but was not pre-
pared to legislate, he demanded further time for consideration; he
adverted to the appropriation but was not willing to adopt the prin-
cipled without further inquiry, the Noble Lord who was at
that time a Minister of the Crown ought not to be the party to
approach the Crown. Well then, the Hon. Member for Dublin
is to be a party to the communication—he is to be a party to the
appropriation of the revenues of the Church, the security of which
was granted by the Act of Union. Who advised the Crown to use
these expressions with respect to the Act of Union. •I have seen with
feelings of concern and regret that attempts have &en made in Ire-
land to excite the people of that country to demand the repeal of
the Legislative Union, that bond of our national strength, which I _
am determined, under the blessing of Divine Providence, to main-
tain inviolate by all the means in my power.'—(Cheers.) Is it fair
in so unusual and unprecedented a manner to present such an ad-
dress to the Crown ? I will candidly tell the House, that I shall
think it my duty to give to the Crown the advice to dismiss that
address in its unformed and immature shape.—(Hear, hear.) But
I hope that the House will pause before admitting such a proposi-
tion. It has the power to reject it, and I trust that it will. I,
hear.
tell
you before hand that I will not act upon your propo ition.—( Hear. )
I will not be a party to the act of appropriating the property of the
Irish Church to any but its legitimate purposes.—( Freer, h
The Hon. Gentlemen opposite differ from me on this question, but
the Noble Lord :prefaced his proposition in such a manner that we
can differ on some points while we agree upon others. I
am ready to put the question en any footing which may snit
the House. lam ready to postpone the question till after Easter.
—(No, no.) But I cannot think that the House will proceed to a
decision without full information on the subject, and until they have
before them :the report of the Church Commission. It behoves
them in a matter in which so large an amount is involved, and in
which matters of such immense importance are involved, not to
come to a hasty decision.—Cries of " Hear, hear.': If there was
a difference of opinion on arevenue of 250,000/., it is but jus-
tice to the Church from which it emanates, to ascertain whe-
ther the serevenues you are about to appropriateaccording to/ some
540,0001., according to others, 791,000/. should be disposed of in
the manner which the Noble Lord proposes. By moving one re-
solution in a Committee, you may have this point satisfactorily as-
certained; and I do, therefore; ask you to relieve the Noble Lord
and myself from a great practical evil. The Noble Lord did not
give this notice himself, it was given by an Honourable
Gentleman who showed more courage than discretion, and
who pressed the Noble Lord into a position that
he was compelled to give way. My opinion is the Noble
Lord will see the policy, and that he will withdraw this most
tmperfeet motion, for which he shall have my full permission, and
which is likely to embarrass him so much. Let the House then
concur in relieving the Noble Lord from this position, and let it
not debar him from that happiness he was about to anticipate. He
perfectly coincided with an expression delivered by the Ho-
nourable Member for Weymouth, that where there are so
many differences of opinion they ought to be inquired
into.—(Hear, hear.) Ido ask you, then, to desist until the report
be laid on the table, wait until the result of your own commission
be known. If you take my advice you will relinquish this attempt
for the present, and not defeat the object of your wishes by what
might be a hasty decision, nor obstruct its final settlement by this
untoward proposition. You may perhaps succeed in it, and you
may succeed effectually to the destruction of the Protestant Church.
You may indeed succeed in showing your power here—if you suc-
ceed, don't act rashly—don't glory in your triumph. Let me as-
sume the functions of an office discharged in former times by a
slave, but which may be assumed in the present crisis by a freeman
without any derogation to his station. You boast of your superior
streuath—you are prepared to control the Executive Government.
Let me-whisper into your ear, that though you are triumphant
here, you cannot fetter the views of the public. You cannot ex-
tend the excitement which exists within these walls out of them.
Yes, in the performance of the functions which I voluntarily undertook
I place before your eyes what may the consequences of your
triumph. I call upon you to consider the variation in human
affairs and the instability of human calculations. I tell you, you
cannot control public opinion.—(Cheers.) We may be weak
here : but this I -tell you, that the consequence of your
triumph will be to show that there is in this country
a public opinion, which cannot be controlled by the
votes of this House, and independent of them.—( Hear.)
I never was more convinced of the truth of any proposition than
this, that public opinion will not sanction your proceeding. It may
bow with apparent submission, but not with approbation—your
attempt to throw impediments in the way of the Executive Go-
vernment. It will nut sanction your vote of want of confidence, if
such is meant to be implied by your proceedings.—(Hear, hear,)
Why not declare that your object is net to throw out the present
Government, but to make the Government in which you have no
confidence undertake those measures. Are you confident in your
own thought? You say you have a majority ; and if so, are yes
prepared to assume the executive Government ?—( Cheers.) That
is a question which I think should be asked. If you feel that
you can count upon the support of the people and upon a majority
of this House, why not at once take that course which will decide
the question, and assume that responsibility ? I avow that Ica :dot
undertake to enforce tbs proposition—l differ from you, and I give
you this fair advice, I intend to object to the Committee—l intend
to object to the resolution—l intend to object to the communica-
tion of that resolution to his Majesty.—(Ministerial cheers.) If,
after that, you persevere in this resolution, and that you intend
to object to the progress of that measure—(hear, hear)—the
principle of _ which, I admit, I am bound to believe is
necessary to the settlement of the tithe question—if you perse-
vere in a principle which I cannot concur in, then I shall admit (the
intention being clearly intimated) that it will be my duty to declare
that it will be impossible for use to remain in the situation which
I have at present the honour is fill.—(The R:glit lion. Baronet
sat down amid loud andlong continued cheering from the Minis-
terial Benches.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then rose to reply. He felt it neces-
sary, althougli he had detained the House too long at the corn-
meiesement of the debate, to take some notice of what had trans-
pired during the debate, but mere especially of the attacks which
had been made upon him and his motives, and of those with whom
he acted. A Right Hon. Gentleman had charged him with bring-
leg forward that question upon which the puce of Ireland
depended—a question in which the principle of Church
Establishment in some degree depended, fur no other purpose
then a wish to . embarrass the Cove nment.—(Cheers.) lie
thought it necessary, therefore,
to offer some explanation to
•
House with regard to his conduct upon that matte'. With retard
to what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham).
the
With regard to the Church Temporalities Bill, in justice to him-
self, Le was obliged to state what took place upon its introductic na

PRICES OF IRISH STOC
3 p r Cent. Consols 90%
Ditto Reduced

:P:. per Cent. Stock 9B!y
1. At° New, 18:10
EN par Cent. Debentures 9o'i
/Sank Stock 2.2,i,<,
Royal Canal Stock
':rand Canal Stock 24%

KS, DUBLIN, MARCH :30
Grand Canal Dcb,. 6 per cent 9'
Ditto, 4 per cent 62q,
Hibernian Bank
City of Dublin Steam Co. lO3
National Insurance Company '29
City Debentures, 4 yer cent iikl%
Ballast Office Debentures, 4
pe, cent 92

;MD WAI ER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO-MORROW.
Morning 58 minutes ußer 4. Evening 16'minutes after 5.