The Sun.
London, England, 1859-04-19 00:00:00

Vienna. Before he went there he came to a perfect under-
standing with the Court of .17rance as to their ideas respect-
ing the Italian difficulty, and he had a complete knowledge
of the particular points whioh the French Government
seemed anxious to reform and t'o settle. At Vienna he was
received, as I informed your .lordships before, with the
greatest frankness and cordiality by the Austrian Govern-
ment. Lord Cowley and Count .Buol, the Austrian Prime
Minister, discussed those points calmly and with all the
feeling of personal friends—as ilhey were—and of political
allies. I cannot, indeed, venture to predict what would
have taken place under those circumstances ; but I must
say I believe that if the negotiations had followed the course
in which they were first commonced—if Lord Cowley
had been permitted to continue as the sole mediator
between the Emperor of the French and the Emperor of
Austria, the negotiations would have been further advanced,
and we should have had a greater hope of their success than
we have at present. (Hear.) I say this, my lords, because,
if one mediator alone had been employed, and such a media-
tor as Great Britain, through her Ambassador, Lord Cow-
ley, I think that difficulties would have been avoided which
are naturally brought forward when a more formal and
complex mediation is placed before the eyes of Europe.
When Lord Cowley returned on the 16th of March to Paris
he found that some communications had been going on be-
tween Russia and France, the result of which appears to be,
that Russia proposed that a Congress should sit upon the
affairs of Italy, that Congress to be composed of the five
great Powers. This was stated to me first by the French
Ambassador in London, who told me that such a Congress
was to take place, and asked 'whether I should approve it,
observing that France entirely supported it, and wished to
know what England was inclined to do. My lords, my
conviction with regard to the best means of settling these
matters was that which I have just explained to you; but
I felt that if that plan should fail a very heavy responsi-
bility would fall upon me if I refused the invitation
which the Russian Government gave us to enter a
Congress and make a combined effort to settle the
Italian difficulty. I don't think that I should have
been justified in declining to take part in that Con-
gress, whatever my private opinion may have been as to
the result. I therefore did assent. But before I re-
ceived the Russian proposition, knowing as I did what the
ideas of France were in respect to the particular points to
be discussed in the Congress if it took place, and knowing
also what were Count Buol's views on those points, I
thought it better to anticipate the offer of the Russian
Government, and to submit a basis for the Congress. This
I did on the 20th of March, and on the 22d of that month
Baron Brunow brought me the official proposition that a
Congress should be held, and at the same time agreed that
it should be based on the four points which I had laid
before the Russian Government. My lords, the four
points were these :—First, the means by which peace should
be preserved between Austria and Sardinia; secondly, how
the evacuation of the Roman States by the armies of
Austria and France might best be accomplished ; thirdly,
whether any, and if any, what reforms could be made in the
internal administration of these and other Italian States,
whose present administrative defects might obviously be
attended with danger to the peace of Europe; and fourthly,
the substitution for the treaties between Austria and
the Duchies of a confederation of the minor States
of Italy for their mutual internal and external protection.
We further required as a condition to our assent to the
Russian proposal that it should be distinctly understood
that the Congress would not entertain any question of in-
terference with the actual state of the territorial possession
of Italy, or in any way disturb the articles of the treaty of
1815. Now, my lords, these four points were received and
admitted by all the other Powers as the basis of the Con-
gress. But there were collateral questions which arose ;
and the two principal collateral questions were, first, the
composition of the Congress ; and second, the disarmament
of the three great Powers who were antagonists to one
another. Your lordships will observe that the question of
disarmament involves the first of the four points which I
had laid down—viz., the means by which peace should be
preserved between Austria and Sardinia. With respect to
the question of disarmament there occurred a difference of
opinion. It was proposed by some that that disarmament
should be accepted only in principle, and that its details
should be the first question considered in the Congress. By
others it was supposed to be much the preferable alternative
that disarmament, real and effective, should precede the
Congress, and that the Congress should be entered into
upon grounds entirely political, and with a peaceful
atti-
tude. My lords, I have no hesitation in saying that it was
the opinion of her Majesty's Government that a previous
disarmament was the preferable course. (Hear, hear.) It
seems consistent with sound policy and common sense that
persons who are antagonists, and who have to discuss
thorny and difficult questions, should not enter the council
chamber armed ; that they should not have the power, if
they disagreed, of having recourse to force ; and that they
should have the means of violence taken from them before
they engaged in discussion. (Hear, hear.) That point,
as I will tell your lordships later, was considered, and is not
yet settled ; but the question of the composition of the
Congress was, after some discussion, arranged. Your lord-
ships will recollect that the Russian Government pro-
posed that the five great Powers should alone sit in Con-
gress. This has been the custom of Europe for a great
many years when the great public law of Europe has been
discussed, and there appeared to none of us any reason why
we should depart from the usual practice, and make an
exception by calling in any other Power to assist us. But,
my lords, it at the same time seemed to me, inasmuch as we
were going to discuss social and political questions of the
greatest interest to Italians, that Italians ought somehow
or other to be heard before the Congress ; and, although
upon the different points we had no intention of imposing
either reforms, or confederations, or any other improvement
which we might wish to propose on any one of the Italian
States—(hear, hear)—although it was our intention, if we
entered into Congress, only to recommend those reforms
after we had deliberately entertained them, yet it appeared
to me that it would be of very great advantage to those
deliberations that the Italian nations should be represented,
and should, on the one hand, hear what ve had to propose,
while we, on the other hand, should hear what they had to
say to our propositions. (Hear, hear.) I therefore proposed
that they should be invited and admitted whenever we
wished to hear them during our deliberations. (Cheers.)
And that no want of respect might appear implied in this
proposal, I reminded the great Powers and the Italian States
of the analogous case that occurred in this country in 1830.
At that time your lordships will remember that the dispute
between Holland and Belgium was proceeding, and the
important operation of dividing that kingdom, and erecting
Belgium into a new monarchy, was settled•in London. Hob
land and Belgium were the principal parties to that arrange-
ment, but they were not received into the Congress,
or rather conference, as principals. They were heard in
the conference through their respective Ministers, who
were first called commissioners, and afterwards commis-
sioners extraordinary, to that conference. It appeared to
her. Majesty's Government, that there would be nothing
derogatory to the dignity of the Italian States in following
that precedent. But there is also another, that of the Con-
gress of Laybach held in 1821; Russia, Prussia, and Aus-
tria, made the nucleus of a Congress, which, after sitting
some time, came to certain decisions with respect to Italian
affairs, and then they invited the Italian States to sit with
them, and share the discussion. But Sardinia, when the
proposition of her Majesty's Government was made, claimed
to sit in the Congress as one of the antagonists ; all the
great Powers resisted that demand, and agreed that it
would be very inconvenient to depart from the usual prece-
dents. If Sardinia claimed to sit as a principal in the Con-
gress, because she is interested in Italian affairs and the
preservation of the peace of Europe, then the same claim
might be made by Switzerland, the smaller German States,
or any other country on the confines of Italy. It was, there-
fore, completely determined by all the five Powers that
Sardinia and the other Italian States should be invited to
sit on the Congress only after it should have assembled ;
then those States might send delegates to inform the Con-
gress of their wishes. My lords, while this discussion was
proceeding another was taking place with respect to the
question of disarming. Austria put forth, with con-
siderable tenacity, that she would not attend the Congress
unless Sardinia previously disarmed. That appeared to
her Majesty's Government an unfair proposal; but it sug-
gested this course—that if Sardinia would consent to dis-
arm, it would invite France, together with England, to
guarantee her from any attack on the part of Austria ;
Austria at the same time offered to make a public declara-
tion that it would not make any attack on Sardinia. (Hear,
hear.) But. that proposal fell to the ground because the
French Government declined to make such a guarantee.
Her Majesty's' Government, therefore, have never proposed
to Sardinia to disarm, because it could not obtain for her
the necessary security. (Hear, hear.) But after consider-
able discussion, with which I will not weary yourlordships,
the case stands at present in this form:--Austria and France
have agreed to the principle of a disarmament, but have
not agreed as to the time and manner of it. Austria pro-
poses a disarmament previous to the Congress. France
proposes that the principle of a disarmament shall be ac-
knowledged before the Congress meets ; but that the details
of that disarmament shall be considered after it has met.
But I think the Congress is not the most competent body
to discuss the details of the disarming of three great armies.
This would be better done by a commission of officers of
the three armies, so that when the several Powers enter
the Congress there would be nothing to disturb the minds
of the representatives but the questions they are sent to
discuss, which will be entirely of a political nature and
having nothing to do with military operations. (Hear.) I
am sorry to say, therefore, that the question of disarming
is not settled, it stands as I describe. Sardinia has also
been invited to disarm by Austria, exactly on the same
footing as Austria and France; but she has not consented,
grounding her hesitation on her exclusion from the Con-
gress. My lords, it is a source of considerable regret, as you
may well imagine, to her Majesty's Government that it is
not able to give a more satisfactory account of the negotia-
tions that have been so long pending on this subject. I feel
all the responsibility and all the gravity of the situation.
Her Majesty's Government having such a task on its hands
would for its own credit have applied all its energies to it.
But there is an object much greater than the credit of indi-
viduals or of the Government, that object is the peace of
Europe, and when you consider, if unhappily we are to have
war, what a war it will be, the responsibility of those men
who have refused or neglected any occasion of averting it
is great indeed. (Hear, hear.) It will be no common war;
it will be no conflict between the chivalrous nations in a
distant land, like the Russia war in the Crimea. By a
war in Italy, elements will be upheaved that will scarcely
be settled again within our time. It will excite the hopes
of persons without the slightest patriotism, who will endea-
vour to obtain their own desperate objects by such a war.
It will evoke every wild theorist, and every impossible
theory, of Republicans of every hue and colour ; all will ex-
pect to find their account in this war; there are exiled
princes who will expect to reap advantage from it ; it is
impossible for any human being, whatever his experience,
to say when such a war would end, or what would be its
termination. Then, my lords, I may be permitted, as the
Minister of a country as great as either of the Powers in -
volved, to implore the Ministers of those countries, to think
once more, how serious is the responsibility of the question
in which they are engaged, and how great may be the
calamities that may be caused by any neglect, or hesitation
on their part, to adopt the measures that may prevent hos-
tilities. The only consolation we have, personally, is that,
as her Majesty s Ministers, we have neglected no single
step—(hear, hear)—or means of averting such disasters;
and if they do occur, may Almighty. God pardon those who
are the occasion of them. (Cheers.)
The Earl of CLARENDON said,---The speech of the
noble lord has laid bare a state of things so perplexing and
so difficult that I do not wonder the noble lord postponed
it till the latest possible moment. I do not wonder he
wished to postpone the communication while there was any
hope of bringing these protracted negotiations to a conclu-
sion that might have realized the expectations he held out
to your lordships, that unless some untoward and almost
impossible event occurred, the Congress might assemble at
the close of this month. lam not complaining of the de-
lay that has taken place; I think it is not unnatural that
her Majesty's Government should have wished to wait, in
the hope of being able to give a more satisfactory account
of the negotiations. I think it not unnatural that the Go-
vernment should have feared the effect of Parliamentary
discussion upon them;:though I believe in this