The Sun.
London, England, 1835-06-06 00:00:00

and if that agreement cannot be made, it should be referred
to some third party. I know of no better party that it
can be referred to than the Commissioners of the Treasury,
for the purpose of its being finally determined. These
clauses have been framed with great care, after consultation
with persons who are intimately acquainted with this subject.
We propose, Sir, that in all of those great boroughs, the
Commission should have jurisdiction in capital offences.....
( Cheers.) I believe that there are many gentlemen in this
House well aware of the great importance of these Courts
having the power of framing their own rules and regulations.
Sir, I have now gone through the chief of the clauses proposed
to be inserted in this Bill. There may be some parts of con-
siderable importance which I have not touched, but I hare
given the House a general view of the whole matter.—
( Cheers.) In providing for these Corporations, many of
them in a state of Insolvency—(loud cheers)—we are of
opinion that by the provisions which I have now detailed
WC shall be enabled—in the first place, we shall procure for
the government of those boroughs a Council which shall have
the confidence of the people.—( Great cheering.) We think
there will be no longer an opinion entertained that those Corpo-
rations have been instituted for the exclusive benefit of one par-
ticular party in those towns.—( Cheers.) We are of opinion
in the next place, that by these provisions we shall provide a
secure and preventive police in these towns. We conceive, in
the last place, that in providing for the pure and proper ad-
ministration of justice, we secure to it the love and admiration
of the people—(Hear)--and we conceive that by the provi-
sions of this Bill we shall establish that pure administration
of justice in those towns containing so large a mass of
population. Sir, this is a measure which in my opinion is
in strict conformity with the Reform Bill.—( Cheers.)
It will reform one of our valuable institutions, while at
the same time it destroys no part of them, except
those which upon all hands are admitted to be bad.--( Hear,
hear.) We have not interfered to destroy, but we have
interfered to build up, after a long and patient investi-
gation. It is a measure, Sir, which is in conformity with the
declaration of this House at the commencement of this
Session in the Address to his Majesty—in conformity
with the wish expressed by his Majesty in answer to
that address, that the dissolution of Parliament might not pre-
vent any of those Reforms which were necessary. Sir, it is
a measure upon which we, as a Government, are ready to stake
what credit may belong to us for having proposed the Re-
form Bill, and the other measures which have obtained the
approval of the country.—(Loud and continued cheering.)
We, Sir, have paid great attention to this subject, although
we have been deprived of the benefit of some—one I have
alluded to at the commencement of my address, another I may
now mention. We have been deprived of the assistance of
my Noble Friend Lord Spencer, who, at the close of the
last Session, gave notice upon this subject.--( Cheers. ) lam
sure that floe Noble Lord, if he had joined the present Go-
vernment—if he had not preferred, as he always did,—the unam-
bitious quiet of private life to any honours or advantages which
office might confer ; if he had condescended, as was the anx-
ious wish of his Majesty's present Government, to have joined
them, I think his assistance would have been most valuable,
both in framing this measure, and in explaining it to the
House, in a manner of which, so far as regarded details, he
was the unrivalled master.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Sir, I have ventured thus to explain the general fea-
tures of this measure, and I shall leave the question to be
determined and acted upon by the deliberate opinion of the
House. I shall leave it to the judgment of the House, and
to the judgment of the people of England, as a safe, effectual,
and wholesome measure of Municipal Reform.—(The Noble
Lord sat down amid loud cheers.)
THE SPEAKER having put the question, that leave be given
to bring in a Bill which provides for the regulation of Muni-
cipal Corporations in England and Wales,
Sir R. PE EL said Sir, although I am resolved to
avail myself of every advantage in the discussion of this im-
portant question, which additional time and opportunities,
of farther reference to documents already in the possession of
the House, and of reference not yet in its possession,
will afford me--( Hear, hear, hear)--it is not my in-
tention to enter at any length at the present time, into a
discussion of the important measure which the Noble Lord has
this night proposed to the House. Still, on account of its im-
portance, I am unwilling to permit that motion to be put from
the Chair without any person havinc, offered an observation
upon it beyond the speech of the Noble Lord. Sir, I shall
make no opposition to this motion.—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear, hear.") I shall certainly throw not the
slightest impediment in the way of its introduction,
and, moreover, I am about to state opinions upon the
subject of municipal reform generally, not in imme-
diate reference to this measure, the details of which
are so important, that each is entitled to separate
discussion ; but I am about to express opinions upon
the subject of Municipal Reform which will not be found
inconsistent with those expressed by the Noble Lord.
I agree with the Noble Lord, that the time has ar-
rived when it is necessary, for the well-being of so-
ciety, to establish a good system of municipal government.
I have looked through these Reports, and the impression left
on my mind is, that the time has arrived when it
is highly necessary for Parliament to interfere, to
provide effectual checks upon abuses, and therefore, with-
out any hesitation, I admit that it is of the utmost
importance that a good system of municipal go-
vernment should be provided for large towns, whether
they be Corporate towns or not.---( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
After making this admission, it follows, as a matter of
course, that Corporations, where they exist, should be
made instrumental in effecting those purposes.—(Hear.)
I have no hesitation in saying that Parliament has a right
to require that the revenues of those Corporations,
except where they are applied to special purposes, may
very fairly be applied to public purposes—( Great cheering)—
connected with good municipal government. If I were a
member of a Corporation, so far from objecting to this, I
would wish that the Corporation funds should be applied to
public purposes, rather than to a system of public feasting,
or to party purposes—(Cheers)—l have not the slightest ob-
jection to any new provision to be made by law which should
impose some check on these practices, I am bound at the same
time to say, that it is a new principle of law.—( Cheers.) It
does not all follow, that in laying it down for the future there is
any reflection upon the honesty of the Corporations. The
principle of the law heretofore has been, I believe, that these
corporate bodies have had a right to apply their funds to other
than public municipal purposes : they clearly had a right to
apply their funds to corporate purposes ; and I apprehend the
principle of the law has been, that excepting so far as the re-
straining statutes interfered with the ecclesiastical corporations,
the civil corporations of this country had a right even to alienate
their property, if they thought proper.—(Renewed cheers.) I
am bound to say, that I think the Report made by the Com-
missioners has not sufficiently referred to the principles of law
in conformity with which the Corporations have acted. I think
also that I have a right to complain of this Report in another
respect, namely, that it involves all the Corporations in indis-
criminate censure, and that it does not sufficiently point out the
cases in which Corporations have acted honestly in the per-
formance of their trust, but that it has thrown a general reflec-
tion upon all Corporations, in consequence of the misap-
plication of their funds. I think that the Noble Lord did
wisely in laying down the principle that we had much
better defer to a future opportunity any attempt to cite
particular instances in which Corporations may not have
been justly dealt with. I mean singly to refer to the general
principle of the measure on this occasion, and avoid entering
into any special or individual cases. The Noble Lord laid
down one or two important principles in his speech, to which
I yielded implicit deference. The Noble Lord said he would
not refer to instances of particular Corporations ; but scarcely
had the words escaped the Noble Lord's lips, when he re-
ferred to some eight or ten Corporations—not very impartially
selected, I must say—(Loud cheers from the Opposition)—
and it is a little singular, that of those eight or ten Corpora-
tions, the Noble Lord became acquainted with the circum-
stances of four-fifths of them by having access to a Report
which has not yet been laid before the House.—( Renewed
cheering.) We have had no report upon Norwich—we have
had no report upon Orford—we have had no report upon Ox=s
ford—we have had no report upon Cambridge—we have had
no report upon Bedford—we have had no report upon Aldbo:
rough—we have had no report upon Ipswich—(Loud cheers)
and yet these are the cases which the Noble Lord has se-
lected. How stands the fact ? Why that we, not having
access to the particulars collected by the Commission, the
Noble Lord, in order to illustrate his argument, first of all se-
lects cases in respect of which no documents whatever have
been laid upon the table ; and, in the second place, has, as
I said before, made the selection in no very fair or impartial
manner; because it really would appear, from the Noble
Lord's speech, as if one party in the State entertaining a par-
ticular descriptionof opinions, had been disposed to abuse the
power which their corporate privileges vested in them.--( Great
cheering.) The Noble Lord sent down an antiquarian on an
excursion to the east coast of this country, to examine with
particular and special care into Aldborough and Orford. Now
I hope that antiquarian will go into the interior ; I hope he
will not select the smallest boroughs in which to indulge in
his antiquarian researches. I hope he will go to Derby.—
(Loud cheers and laughter.) I say I hope he will go to Derby
—I hope he will go to Portsmouth.—(Renewed cheering. )
I really wish the Noble Lord bad not taken this course; I
wish he had adhered to the rule he laid down, because it would
have been infinitely better' o discuss general principles, with-
out reference to particular cases ; and, above all, if there were
to be references to particular Reports, it should have been to
Reports to which all sides of the House have had access equally.
(Renewed cheering.) Why, see to what an objection the
Noble Lord lays himself fairly open. If these Reports be im-
porlant as illustrations of his arguments, why did the Noble
Lord press forward this measure until those Reports were com-
pleted ?—( Loud cheers.) I seek no delay of this measure ;
but I must say, with reference to good government and to
the municipal system about to be established, I do hope his
Majesty's Government, if they should not find on this
side of the House that indisposition which they probably
apprehended to discuss this question fairly, without refe-
rence to its party bearings, but with the single view of'
providing a system of good government--I say,' Ido hope his
Majesty's Government will feel it to be so important, so
much more intimately connected with the peace and hap-
piness of these towns than even the Reform Bill itself, that
they will afford most ample time for the mature deliberation of
this Cheers.) I say, therefore, if the Noble Lord
deem these Reports, which are not yet laid upon the table,
to be important as illustrations of his own arguments, he
ought at least to enable us to refer to the whole of those Re-
ports before we are called upon to decide on the details of the
measure. I again repeat, that I wish the Noble Lord had not
made a partial speech. I say, that if the Noble Lord looks to
the facts of the case, he will find neither in the Corporation of
Aldborough nor Orford any particular description of political
opinions guiding the whole body. The selection ought to be
fairly made. Ido not dispute the conclusion at which you
what fortifies the argument,
arrive. lam admitting, perhaps,