The Sun.
London, England, 1835-03-10 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, IVIARCH 10, 1835.

provement. I think I can, however, satisfy the Hon. Member
that at all events the recent change in the Administration has
not prejudiced the consideration of the present question, and
that it shall not do so. lam ready, on the part of my Noble
Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, to give the
Honourable Member every pledge he may desire.—( Hear,
hear, hear.) On the appointment of Lord Aberdeen he found
this Canadian question in precisely the same condition it was
left by the Committee which sat in 1830. The Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite has stated that when removed from office
he was on the eve of proposing to his colleagues in office cer-
tain principles on which a settlement of the question should
be sought. I believe that to have been the case ; but as the
Right Honourable Gentleman has stated, of those preambles
no record was left by him at the Colonial Office. For my
part, and I am sure I may say the same on the part of
my Noble Friend, I much wish that such a record was in
our possession, because, in addition to the opportunity it
would have given us of testifying our respect for the opinions
of the Right. Hon. Gentleman, it could not but materially
have assisted us in the task we had to perform.—( Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Gentlemitn's motive for taking with him all
the documents he had prepared on the subject no one can ques-
tion; it was that his successor in office should not be embar-
rassed by his views in forming his decision ; but, much as I
am disposed to do credit to the proper spirit which characte-
rised his conduct, I cannot help repeating my regret that Lord
Aberdeen should not have had the benefit of his opinions. How-
ever, notwithstanding the recent change of Government, and
notwithstanding also the arduousness of the duties in which,
immediately on his appointment as Secretary for Colonial
Affairs, he finds himself involved, I am happy to say measures
have already been taken to insure a settlement of the diffe-
rences.—( Hear, hear.) On our taking office we felt that the
question demanded instant consideration, and we accordingly
had it communicated to the colonial authorities that we were
determined at an early period to proceed to the settlement of
the disputes. With this view we authorised Lord Aylmer to
inform them that his Majesty had determined to send out to
Canada a Representative totally unconnected with local po-
litics, altogether unembued with local prejudices, and com-
pletely unmixed in Canadian affairs, who should be enabled on
the spot to take a whole view of the subject, and being in full
possession of the opinions and intentions of the Government
here upon the several matters in disputa, might report upon
the best and most satisfactory means for bringing them to a
final adjustment.—( Hear, hear.) This is the course we pro-
pose to adopt. We felt the greatest difficulty in bringing
the matter to a conclusion by written communications. There
might be misunderstanding on some points, misinterpretation
on others, and the distance between the two points rendering
the clearing of those misunderstandings and misrepresenta-
tions a most tedious and difficult process, we, after mature de-
liberation, came to the resolution that it would be better to
send out a person in full possession of our views and intentions
in the several matters to be adjudicated, and enabled to enter
into full communication with the Canadian authorities upon
them. Our final intention is, upon a report of the real state
of the case being made to us, to remove what is justly ob-
noxious, and in their place to propose those measures which
we believe to be consistent with justice to the parties con-
cerned, and with sound policy as regards the general interests
of the country.---( Cheers.) Under these circumstances I
think the House will feel that I take the most prudent course
in declining to enter further into the subject at present, and I
at the same time hope they will agree with me in the opinion
that the course most likely to bring about an amicable settle-
ment of the dispute is that which his Majesty's Government
have adopted.—( Hear, hear.) We do not mean to disregard
the petitions of the Canadian population, but we mean to ap-
peal to their sense of reason and justice ; and we firmly be-
lieve that our appeal will prove successful.—(Cheers.) We
will give their claims every just consideration, but at the same
time I am bound distinctly to state we do not mean to declare
any new principle of government in the colonies.--( Hear.)
Our object is to see of what it is the Canadian people com-
plain, and then to see to what extent those complaints are
founded in justice. If we find they are not founded in justice,
our aim shall be to prevent their continued and useless agita-
tion ; but if, on the contrary, we find they are founded on jus-
tice, we shall apply ourselves in a spirit of conciliation, and
without regard to the epithets of contumely and insult pre-
viously heaped upon us, to their permanent and satisfactory re-
moval.--( Cheers.) Having stated thus dearly the course we
have resolved upon pursuing in reference to this question, I
beg to assure the House I shall not occupy their attention by
any comment upon the numerous and unincidental topics intro-
duced by the Hon. Member for Bath into his speech. One
word, however, a sense of justice compels me to say in de-
fence of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire,
whose conduct has been so unjustifiably attacked by the Hon.
Member who originated this discussion. Sir, Ido not believe
that the conduct of any Minister of this country or any public
man, Minister or otherwise, was ever exposed to so severe an
ordeal as that of the Noble Lord to whom I allude; and I
may further say I doubt any man could go through such an
ordeal with more honour or credit to his character than did the
Noble Lord.--( Cheers.) , While a Minister of the Crown
that Noble Lord went before a Committee of the House of
Commons—a Committee indiscriminately chosen—having on
its list many Members adverse to the policy of the Govern-
ment with which he was connected—a Committee as fair a
representative of the average opinions of that House as
could possibly be selected—a Committee as fully the re-
presentative of the interests of the Canadian body as of the
British party in Canada—before such a Committee the Noble
Lord went, and after producing to them every document
public or private his office contained, left it to them to judge
whether the complaints brought against him were founded in
justice or otherwise.—( Cheers.) Sir, I repeat I know of no
example of a Minister having taken such a course to free him-
self from accusation, and much less of a Minister, after taking
such a course, passing through the ordeal so honourably to
himself and his character as did the Noble Lord.--(Loud
cheers.) As far, therefore, as the accusation of the Hon.
Member for Bath is concerned, I think the Noble Lord will
best consult his own dignity by treating it with indignant or
rather contemptuous silence.—( Hear, hear.) I would here,
Sir, cease to occupy the attention of the House were it not
that there occurs to me one other point in the
Honourable Member for Bath's speech which I do not
think I ought to pass over without notice. The Hon.
Member has been pleased to threaten us, that unless every-
thing the Canadians ask for is granted them, they have deter-
mined upon rebellion. Those, I think, were the expressions
of the Hon. and Learned Member.—( A laugh.) He also
undertook to assure us that thirteen millions inhabitants of the
United States of America, a country with which Great Bri-
tain at this moment enjoys the profoundest amity, a country
with which Great Britain is almost daily interchanging expres-
sions of most friendly feeling, a country with which Great
Britain has scarcely a subject of difference—their old jea-
lousies being now removed, and each, conscious that the pros-
perity of the other must influence its own prosperity, recipro-
cally desiring that peace, tranquillity, and good order might
flourish in the other—such, Sir, I say, being the state of the
countries the Hon. Gentleman thinks it fit to declare, that if
a rebellion should break out in Canada, the whole of the
United Provinces are prepared to interfere in our domestic
quarrels, and join these rebellious Canadians. Now, Sir, I
will not do the United States the injustice to believe, even for
a moment, that they, or any one on their behalf, could have
authorized the Hon. and Learned Member to make such a de-
claration within the walls of the British House of Commons.
—( Loud cheers and laughter.) I have too high an opinion of
their justice and integrity; but even if that opinion were
wanting, I entertain such a sense of their shrewdness, common
sense, and discretion, that I cannot believe thy would select
as their organ in this House the Hon. Member who has thought
proper to represent himself in that capacity. With re-
spect to his declaration of the intentions of the Canadians, I
have also a word to say. I think, Sir, it is far better for me
instead of being exasperated by the language the Hon.
and Learned Member has been pleased to put, as it were, into
the mouths of the Canadian party, of whom he says he is the
representative, and instead of demeaning myself by retorting
equally hard words and unworthy expressions, simply and in
the plainest language to state that I both hope and trust the
Hon. Gentleman has had no authority from that party to tell
the British House of Commons that unless all their demands
are acceded to, they will have recourse to rebellion.—(Loud
cheers.) Indeed, Sir, painful as the alternative would be,
I would be rather inclined to believe that for the moment—l
say, Sir, only for the moment—the wisdom and discretion for
which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman is so remarkable,
forsook him than to suppose that he gave-us a correct report
of the intentions of his, as he has been pleased to term them,
constituents.—(Laughter.) But if on the other hand it

should turn out that his information is correct--if it be true

that the Canadian people or any part of them have instructed
the Hon. Member to act in the capacity of their Minister of
War, and to declare to the British Parliament that they are
prepared to rebel if all their demands are not acceded to—l,
as Minister of the British Government, will meet them, not
with any counter declaration of hostility, but, with the hand
of peace and friendship grasping theirs, I will say to them,
"Still,we intend to do you justice--still, notwithstanding we de-
rive from your menaces a fresh source of strength—although by
your threats you arm us with fresh means of arousing public
opinion on our side—and although by your unfounded accusa-
tions, accusations which in the end will recoil on yourselves
and give us the strength to disregard your vaunting, you in-
duce a fresh conviction of your injustice and intemperance, we
are determin©d to go on unflinchingly in the course we have set
out on; and, by removing all fair grounds of complaint, take
from you even the pretence for asserting that his Majesty's co-
lonial.subjects do not meet from the British Government that

..... _
consideration and attention to which they are entitled."—( The
Right Hon. Baronet resumed his seat amid loud cheers.)
Mr. HUME said that the Hon. Member for Worcester had
treated the subject now before the House with his usual disre-
gard for facts.--( Oh, oh.) Probably the House and the Hon.
Gentleman were not aware that the party lead by Papineau,
and which had been designated a faction, consisted of 10-11ths
of the inhabitants of Lower Canada. Was the Hon. Gentle-

man aware that out of eighty-eight members of the last Par-
liament twenty-seven members only were of the Tory party—
the struggle in Canada having been similar to one that had
lately taken place in this country, and that four, and only
four, refused to sign the petition referred to, though twelve
were prevented from doing so in consequence of the state of
the roads. Some Hon. Members were probably unacquainted
with the state of population and of parties there, and he would
beg to inform them that the supporters of the petition were
373,000 and the opposers only 32,000. But the real question
before the House he considered to be, were the people of
Canada satisfied ? Had they good government or not? They
asked. in 1831 for a Constitution, and a charter of their rights.
Instead of this they were still misruled ; still badly governed
and the pensioners of the government were chosen for the ad-
ministration of the office of Judge. He would ask the House
what they would think if out of four bills sent up to the
House of Lords, three were, on the average refused, and these
bills relating to finance and other matters of equal importance,
what they would think of it ? Yet this was the case as re-

garded Canada. He spoke from no uncertain information, but
from documents laid before the House. Theeonsequence was
that instead of harmony between the colonists and the govern.
ment there was discord. Out of one hundred and sixty-
nine' Bills sent up to the Council by the Legislative As-
sembly in the space of ten years, namely, from 1822 to 1832,
no less than 122 were rejected. These Bills were for extend-
ing education, for preventing pensioners sitting in the Assembly,
as in this country, and for various other purposes of improve-
ment. They were told, that the people of Canada could not rule
themselves, but that they must be governed by a petty faction
called the Council, who were to be supported by the Colonial
Office
_at home. TheY were placed In the same situation as
the'people of England before the Reforin Bill. The Hon.
Member for Cambridge and late Secretary of the Colonies
hdd said, that he extremely regretted -that the grievances un-
der which the Canadians laboured were unaltered, and that
the same vicious system of Goiernment was maintained. He
need not insist, then, upon the assertion of their grievances
being well founded, for the late Secretary had admitted them
to be so, but had at the same time declared that he had not
time to redress them. The funds arising from 370,000 Catho-
lic inhabitants of Canada for the purposes of education, were
distributed among a very few. Could it be expected that the
people of Canada, any more than the people of Ireland, could
tamely submit to see those funds appropriated, without having
a voice in their disposal ? The Hon. Gentleman then alluded
to the funds arising from lands placed at the disposal of the
Council being. applied for the purposes of the State, exclu-
sive of the interest of the people, and that those funds
were neither subject to the control of the native Parliament,
nor was the subject cognizable by the Crown. The- Hon.
Gentleman then proceeded to the subject of the Bill for in-
corporatirig a Company for the sale of Canadian lands, which
Mr. Papineau had asserted •to have been smuggled through
the House. He (Mr. Hume) did not doubt that the Com-
pany had done, and would do, great good, by the introduc-
tion of capital, which would bring its' accompanying im-
provements. But what be complained of was, that the funds
produced by the lands when sold, were neither under the
control of the Government here nor the people there, but
were employed to bribe the Members of the Legislature.
The Hon. Member then read a resolution of the House of As-
sembly in Canada, dated April 15, 1834, expressive of the
hopes they entertained of immediate redress from his Majesty's
Government, more especially after the retirement from office
of Mr. Stanley and the appointment of Mr. Spring Rice. He
then proceeded to say that he hailed with pleasure the declara-
tion of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite of his intention to
redress all grievances, but regretted that he should be averse
to attempting any new principle, as he (Mr. Hume) felt fully
convinced that unless some new principle was acknowledged
it would be impossible to obtain peace in the colony. He re-
collected that an Hon. Gentleman opposite had said on a pre-
vious occasion that Canada had in its vicinity the United
States, and that an ideal line only separated the two countries ;
and that it could not be expected that the Canadians, seeing
the advantages their neighbours derived from a different Con-
stitution, would long tolerate their own imperfect and inferior
system. The Hon. Gentleman concluded, after expressing
his opinion of the necessity for maintaining a good understand-
ing with the colonists and not treating them like a conquered
people, and saying that their claims were deserving of the
greatest possible attention as being the demands of the ma-
jority of the population, and not, as had been asserted, of a
faction under Papineau, by informing the House that the Eng-
lish among the settlers were as one to ten, and that the emo-
luments of office were distributed among them as ten to one,
and that no ,rood could be done unless the Government ccn-
sented to reform the Legislative Assembly.
Mr. A. BARING had been acquainted with many of the
best informed men in the colonies for many years, and they
were unanimous in the opinion that with all its defects the pre-
sent Constitution had been of the greatest possible benefit.
He was told that only an ideal frontier separated the colonies
from the United States. He had himself been there, and
looked across that frontier, and from inquiries that he had
made he did not think the contiguity so dangerous as gentle-
men on the opposite side were inclined to insinuate, for he
found that from 10,000 to 20,000 settlers had gone from the
one place to the other, and acted as loyal subjects to the King.
When, too, he saw people go in large numbers to settle in
Upper Canada—not in Lower Canada among the French—he
felt inclined to attribute the dissent expressed to the constitu-
tion of Government, to the excitement maintained and the dif-
ferences fomented by the enemies of order at home. Add to
this the disagreement between two nations, both of a national
and religions nature, and the House need no longer entertain
any surprise that neither the present Government nor its prede-
cessor had been able to tranquilize the colony. When Hon. Gen-
tlemen invoked the observance of the Constitution of Lower
Canada, they should first show how it had been violated.
Nine-tenths of the complaints against Government were of vio-
lating the Constitution. That Constitution might be bad, but it
had not been violated. The distribution of lands which had been
so much talked of was no violation of the Constitution, but
was in accordance to law. Gentlemen were aware that in all
the colonies of Great Britain the sound and substantial bless-
ings of freedom were enjoyed ; but whether in those countries
or in this, if there were constant irritating attempts to provoke
discord, materials for mischief were to be found anywhere, and
it was easy for those so disposed to keep up the excitement for
the purpose of making complaints. Constant discussion on
these subjects tended to exasperate. He should wish that a
watchful eye might overlook the proceedings of the colonists,
but_that by the forbearance of the Government the angry state
of parties might be conciliated and a state of peace pre-
served.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROBINSON explained, but the purport of his obser-
vOons did not reach the Gallery.
Mr. L ABO UCHE RE hoped that it would not go forth to
the colonists that the Government did not intend the intro-
duction of any new principle, as such an intention could only
have the effect of perpetuating the present animosity. The
petition now before the House for the alteration of the Con-
stitution was signed by the great majority of the people of
Lower Canada. The Hon. Member concluded by expressing
a wish to be satisfied upon two points—first, whether the com-
plaints of the people of the Canadas would be referred to the
Legislature or the Governor; and, secondly, whether the
person to be deputed from this country was to be created
Governor of the colony.

Mr. Secretary GO eLBURN replied that the individual to
be deputed from the Government of this country was to be
only a Commissioner, and he said that not having been in the
House when the Right Hon. Baronet the Chancellor of the
Exchequer explained his intentions he could not satisfy the
Hon. Member on the other point.
Mr. SHELL said that the Right Hon. Member for Cain
bridge had stated certain facts corroborative of the circum-
stances of a similar character adduced by the Hon. Member
for Bath. It appeared, then, Oil the showing of all concerned,
that a serious and improper difference had arisen between the
Executive and the Legislature in the Canadas—between the
House of Assembly and the Governor-General. It had been
stated that Lord Aylmer had advanced 7,0001. out of his own
pocket to carry on the affairs of the Government ; but by the
Report of the Committee, it appeared, on the evidence of a
Mr. M‘Kinnon, that he had advanced no such sum, 500/. being
the maximum of what he was out of pocket on that occasion.
Therefore, that allegation in his favour fell to the ground. He
(Mr. Sheil) did not desire, by any thing he might say or do,
to create ill-feeling between the colony and the mother coun-
try, or widen the breach which, he regretted to say, existed ;
L,but he could not help saying, that he believed the people of
'the Canadas must have been much aggrieved, as not a single
Statement made by the Hon. Member for Bath had been con-
tradicted. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that he would
do justice to the complaints of the colonists ; and he (Mr.
Sheil) was disposed to give him credit for the intention. But
still he thought the Rigt Hon. Gentleman might have been
more explicit in his statements, and told the House how far
he intended to go in the subject of redress. His Honourable
Friend the Member for Bath had said that an appeal to
arms might be made by the Canadians, if their wrongs
were suffered to remain unrighted—(hear)—and he was
attacked by the Right Hon. Baronet in no measured terms
for saying it. But a prophecy was one thing, and the faculty
of accomplishing it was another ; and though his Hon. Friend
might have honestly predicted such a result, he was sure he
would be the last to sanction it. Another fertile source of
heart-burning in Canada was afforded by religious causes.
The colony was Catholic ; Catholicity was the recognised
religion of the country by the treaties under which it had been
surrendered ; yet the local Government had seized upon the
estates of that Church, and applied them, not to the support
of that Church, but to the maintenance of the Established
Church of this kingdom.
Mr. S, RICE was understood to deny the accuracy of the
Hon. and Learned Member's statement.
Mr. SHELL then proceeded to read from the report of the
Committee a copy of a despatch, dated Colonial Office, 1830,
and addressed to the Lord Bishop of Quebec, in support of
his statement.

Sir R. PEEL objected to the course which the Hon. and
Learned Member was pursuing, as unparliamentary and un-
precedented. The Hon. Member treated the House to quo-
tations from a report of the Committee of the House which
had never been laid on the table, and which was consequently
without their cognizance.--( Hear.)
Mr. SHE IL defended himself from the charge insinuated
against him. He had found the report on the table of the
House, and had only made the same use of it as his Hon.
Friend the Member for Bath had done, without incurring the
reprehension of the Right Hon. Baronet.
The SPEAKER decided against the course adopted by
the Hon. and Learned Member.
Mr. S HEIL said that the Right Hon. Baronet relied on
the report of the Committee, yet he would not permit the
evidence on which it was founded to be used.--( Hear, hear.)
But he (Mr. Sheil) would ask, did that report exculpate the
Governor of the Canadas or contradict the statements made
by the Hon. Member for Bath ? He would maintain it
did not.

Sir R. PE EL thought the Canadian House of Assembly
was a fitter place to entertain complaints of the nature of those
contained in the petitions in the first instance than the British
House of Commons, to which an ultimate appeal only ought
to be addressed.—( Hear.)
Mr. M. STEWART was connected with the British Ca-
nadian interest, and was therefore competent to entertain the
subject of the petition. He did not think that the grievances
were so great as that document stated, and he believed that
some of them did not exist. From his knowledge of these
colonies he felt he was safe in saying that all the petitions
from thence would not be on one side ; and he was satisfied
that in the course of a few days the House might reckon upon
several counter petitions from them.
Mr. S. RICE made some explanation respecting certain
despatches alluded to in the course of the debate, but in such
a low tone as to be inaudible for the purposes of reporting.
Sir R. PEEL expressed himself perfectly satisfied with the
explanation of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. ROEBUCK replied at some length. He had stated
what he believed to be the actual condition of the Canadian