The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-09 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Alderman WOOD brought in a Bill to amend the Acts
relating to London-bridge and the approaches thereto,
which was read a first time.

On the motion of Lord SANDON, a Bill to enable the
Liverpool Marine Insurance Company to sue and be sued
in the name of the Chairman, for the time being, nr of a
Director, was read a third time and passed.

Lord STANLEY brought in a Bill to establish a market
in the parish of Wotton-on- the-Hill, adjoining Liverpool,
which was read a first time.

Mr. SHAW presented two petitions from Protestants
and Catholics in Galway, relative to the Galway franchise,
and praying that in the Irish Reform Bill provision might
be made for the reservation of the Galway freemen, which
were ordered to lie on the table.

The floN. MEMBER next presented a petition from the
manufacturing paper-stainers of Dublin, praying that the
excise duty upon stained paper might be taken off. It ap-
peared that the whole sum produced by that duty in Ire-
land was but 1,2501. a year, and tl.•at the expense of col-
lecting it exceeded that sum. That fact was of itself
sufficient to induce his Majesty's Government to accede to
the prayer of the petitioners, but the tax bore very un-
equally upon the producers and the consumers, for it was
not levied upon the quality but upon the quantity of
paper stained, so that the inferior paper used by the poor
paid 100 per cent. duty, while tke best paper used by the
rich paid only about 2 per cent. In Ireland there were
but few manufacturers, and those so depressed that the
Hon. and Learned Member hoped his Majesty's Govern.
ment would accede to the prayer of the petition.

Mr. O'CONNELL adverted to the absence of the Right
Hon. Secretary for Ireland, who had just left the House,
and observed that he supposed this petition would be as
little attended to as all other Irish grievances. The ques-
tion was, whether it was necessary to continue a tax which
produced nothing, and which preyed se heavily on the
poor and so lightly on the rich.
_ _

Mr. CRAMPTON assured the Hon. and Learned
Member, that when the Secretary left the House be was
❑ot aware of the nature of the petition, and complained that
the lion. and Learned Member had adverted to that Right
Hon. Gentleman as he had done in his absence. As to the
grievance complained of, it was not peculiarly an Irish
grievance, because the duty existed also in England.
Mr. LEADER stated that the whole amount of the
duty in Great Britain and Ireland was but 40,0001. a
year ; but the injury created by it was great, becaus., it
operated injuriously upon other trades, in conjunction with
that of paper staining. In France there was no such duty,
and one of the petitioners, who was in France two months
ago, was offered by a paper stainer there to be supplied
with stained paper safely delivered in England or Ireland,
at the amount of the duty charged in this country.
Mr. O'CONNELL, in reply to what had fallen from
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Cramp-
ton), said that his observation respecting the absence of the
Secretary for Ireland, was of course made when that
Right Hon. Gentleman had lett the House; he would
have been guilty of an Irishism indeed if he had made it
before he left the House.—(A laugh.) He still complained
that this duty was an Irish grievance, and for this plain
reason, that in England it was productive, but in Ireland
it was not.

Mr. SHAW observed, that though this might be a very
bad tax in England, it was a peculiarly grievous one in
Ireland, for its collection there cost a larger sum than the
tax itself produced.—The petition was then ordered to be
printed.
111 r. CHAPMAN, in presenting a petition from the county
of Westmeath, praying Government to adopt measures
with respect to tithes, with a view to effect the total abo-
lition of the present system, observed that, as a proprietor
of land in Ireland, he trusted Government would not carry
into effect those measures of force which it had been stated it
was their intention to do. He was not an advocate for the
combination that existed, but he was convinced if the pro-
perty of the Church of Ireland could be properly placed in
the hands of the clergy, it would be an adequate remu-
neration for their services.

Mr. BLACKNEY supported the prayer of the petition.
If Government expected good to result from the labours
of the Committee, he thought they would be very much
disappointed. In concluding, the Hon. Member stated
that he had not come prepared to address the House on
the subject ; this occasioned considerable laughter, in con-
sequence of the lion. Member having read his speech from
a written paper.
Mr. SANDFORD presented petitions from different
parts of Somersetshire against the General Registry Bill.
The Hon. Member presented a petition from two persons
of the name of Saxon, silk throwsters at Tiverton, com-
plaining of the distressed state of the silk trade, in con-
sequence of the alteration of the law with respect to fo-
reign silks, and praying the House to take the case into
its consideration.

Mr. SADLER presented a petition from the town of
Huddersfield, signed by 10,000 persons, in favour of the
Bill introduced by the Hon. Member, for shortening the
hours of labour of the children in factories; the petitioners
stated that the greatest cruelty was exercised by many
masters of factories towards children.
Mr. 11. C. FERGUSSON hoped the statements in the
petition, which had just been presented, were much exag-
gerated. As far as it respected his own county, he could
take upon himself to say they were greatly so.
Mr. SANDFORD said he had had communications from
several of the roaster-manufacturers in England, who did
not in the slightest degree object to the Bill which
the Honourable Member proposed should be carried
into a law. It was, however, necessary that some
alteration should be made in its provisions re-
garding the period allotted to the masters to recover when
their mills were impaired by accident.
Mr. STRICKLAND had been requested to support the
prayer of this petition. In every discussion that took place
on the subject, he should abstain from throwing any blame
on the masters, as many of them had, with the greatest
readiness, concurred with the labourers in wishing that
seine legislative measure should be adopted upon the subject.
Mr. SCHONSWAR hoped the House would not suffer
their feelings to be led astray by any exaggerated represen-
tation that might be made upon the subject. But from
all he bad been able to learn, there bad been no ezaggera-

Mr. C. PELHAM was understood to support the petition.
Mr. SADLER, in moving that the petition might lie
on the table, begged to know if it were possible that a
petition so numerously signed by the surgeon., clergy, and
a vast majority of the most intelligent inhabitants of that
quarter of the world, could hold out to the Legislature a
series of exaggerations ? He could assure the House, from
his own knowledge, that the greater part of the allegations
in the petition were strictly proved. In regard to referring
the petition to a Select Comtnittee, Select Committees had
brought the case before the House for the last thirty
years, but without any advantage being derived from their
reports. The subject of the petition had been considered
throughout every part of the kingdom, and the utmost de-
gree of labour that human nature could undergo had been
very accurately ascertained. In the late reign an
Act of Parliament was passed, interdicting the Ma-
gistrates, or any other persons--even the felon, from
labouring for more than 10 hours out of the 24. If it
were found that adults, therefore, could only undergo
comparatively such a period of labour, why should it be
that the Legislature should hesitate to interpose to pre-
vent the cruelty of allowing individuals to work children,
mere infants, for fourteen, sixteen, and even eighteen
hours out of the twenty-four? The late Sir Robert
Peel had done his utmost to have a law introduced
on this subject. He was a person who knew perfectly the
nature of the employment to which these children are
subjected—it was his interest to extract as much labour
from those he employed as possible, but still he was found
in Parliament stating that it was impossible for any man
to appear there who had the common feelings of huma-
nity, and who had any idea of the great cruelties
which these poor children were compelled to undergo,
without enforcing on the Legislature the necessity of in-
terposing on behalf of these helpless and cruelly treated
children. Some Hon. Gentlemen had said, let the House
not be led away by excited feelings; but he (Mr. S.)
would consider it no degradation to the House to allow
feelings to interpose and to run high on the pre-
sent occasion. When the proper time came, he could
however, have no hesitation in showing,that it had increased
particularly among the youth in the large manufacturing
districts in this county, by the excessive and inconceivable
suffering and slavery which the children had to undergo.
When the proper time came there would be no difficulty
in unfolding a tale of suffering and of degradation, on
the part of the operative youth, which was unknown to
the House, and certainly unknown to the greater
part of the country. He certainly should object to
a reference of the question to a Select Committee,
He hoped the House would not hesitate openly and boldly
to take the matter into its own hands, and the Government
would speedily introduce a system of justice and humanity
respecting the employment of manufacturing children, far
which so great a portion of the public were anxiously
looking. The present petition was signed by nearly
10,000 individuals, including almost all the adults in the
town of Huddersfield, undoubtedly including all those who
were most competent to give an opinion, and the voice of
the whole was for the immediate interference of Parliament.

Sir G. MURRAY presented a petition from a ship:
owner whose vessel had been seized by the squ•idro❑ that
had blockaded Terceira. The petitioner estimated his
loss at 6001., and he prayed the House to take his case
into consideration.

Lord PALMERSTON stated that the case of the peti-
tioner had received all that attention to which it was ea_
titled. He had the opinion of the legal authorities upon the
subject, and they informed him that every foreign Government
had a right to lay an embargo on any port when they
deemed it necessary.—(llear.) In this case an em-
bargo had been laid, in the exercise of a right be-
longing to the Government of Terceira, and in conse-
quence it was not in his power to lay claim
to compensation. This case was very dissimilar to the
cares of the captures of Lisbon ; in the latter the Por-
tuguese Government had violated the law of nations,
and, therefore, was compelled to make compensation.
To show that no partiality had been exercised respecting
Terceira, there was one case in which a ship had been
violently and illegally seized, and in consequence satisfac-
tion was demanded.

Sir G. MURRAY adverted to the circumstance of a
French vessel having been seized and afterwards allowed
to proceed on her voyage, and it was therefore he thought
the present case ought to come within the same rule.
Lord PALNIERSTON said, if the Government of
Terceira did not exercise their rights respecting the French
vessel, that formed no ground for the British Government
interfering in this particular case.--The petition was
ordered to be printed.
PORTUGAL.

Mr. COURTENAY rose, in pursuance of his
notice respecting Portugal. No man who had paid
any attention to the history of this country—no
man who had attended to the communications which
had been made from the Throne during the last
four years, and particularly no man who had read
the eloquent speeches which were delivered about two
years ago by the Noble Lord, the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs, and by the Hun. Member for Knares-
borough, could doubt the importance of those relations
which he had undertaken to-night to bring before the
House, or of the propriety of occasionally discussing them in
that House. That he should be the individual to bring
before them a matter of such moment, was owing to an
accidental circumstance, to which he cyanid presently
allude. But he claimed the indulgence of the House for one
who, although an old Member, after twenty years' ser-
vice, and probably for the last Session, now for the first
time during that period brought an important discussion
before the House.—(Hear.) If there had ever existed
individual grounds fur inquiring respecting our situa-
tion with regard to Portugal, at the present time
there were peculiar reasons for this discussion. The
House would recollect, that for four years, all
deplomatic relations with our ancient ally bad been sus-
pended. From the King's Speech they were told that
there were numerous occurrences which might
threaten the peace of Europe. There was a third
reason for this discussion in the situation of his
Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) opposite. He was not
disposed, after having been so many years in connec-
tion with Government, to admit the justice of that
feeling which was stated to give confidence in the Adminis-
tration for Foreign Affairs. Upon this subject it often hap-
pened that a Government was so prejudiced by opinions
delivered before taking office, as to take from them when
in office that presumption in their favour which ought to
belong to them. In that predicament it was that
his Noble Friend now stood. Let it not be sup-
posed, however, that he wished to make any charge
against his Noble Friend which was inconsistent
with his personal excellence. All he charged him with was
an inconsi.tence which was dangerous to the peace of the
country,thoughdoubtless creditable to his personal character.
Under these circumstances he rose to move for certain
papers, and to ask for explanations from his Noble
Friend relative to the peculiar state of the relations
committed to his change. But before stating what
his 'notion was, he was desirous of having it fully un•

derstood, what the motion was not. He was particularly
anxious to have it known that be was not standing up as
an advocate of either of the disputants from the Portugese
throne. To him Don Pedro and Don Miguel were alike.
His object was not to advocate the cause of any particular
dynasty or form of Government, but to take that course
which he thought it was his duty to pursue, for the pre-
servation of peace on the principles of non-interference.
That was the system of practice pursued by the old Go-
vernment and avowed by the present, but which, it
appeared to him had by the present Government
been greatly departed from.--(Hear, hear.) In order to
elucidate the matters be had referred to, and to show the
position of the Noble Lord opposite in particular, and to
justify what he had said of him, he must request the at-
tention of the House to a short narrative of the proceed-
ings with respect to Portugal for the last three or four
years. He would begin with that point of time when
the Noble Lord opposite sat in Parliament with the Duke
of Wellington and his Right Hon. Friend near him. It
was early in 1828 that his Majesty, by the advice of a
United Cabinet, withdrew his forces from Portugal.
He (Mr. Courtenay) mentioned this to show that
at that period there had been no determination en the
part of Ministers, to interfere in any way in the
internal Government of Portugal. The troops of this
country had been sent there at the instance of Mr. Can-
ning, to repel a foreign invasion, and when those invaders
were repelled, the troops were withdrawn. The connec-
tion of the Noble Lord opposite with the then existing
Government continued but a few months after that period.
But it continued for some short time, after Don Miguel
had gone to that country, not quite until he had assumed
the title of absolute King ; but after he had, accord-
ing to the avowals of Messrs. Huskisson and Lambe,
exhibited the most unequivocal marks of his intention to
depart from the engagements which he had made with
this country. He had removed every officer supposed
to be unfavourable to the Constitution. He had dissolved
the Chamber without calling another, contrary to
the Charter, and, according to Mr. Huskisson, had
evinced a disposition to destroy the Constitution altogether.
After this the Noble Lord opposite concurred in the order
sent by Mr. Huskisson, for a recal of the troops. He
(Mr. C.) merely mentioned this to show the position in
which affairs stood, when that fatal separation in the
Government, to which he had alluded took place.—
Up to that time, all those gentlemen who were then
Members of Government lamented the elevation of Don
Miguel, and the dethronement of Donna Maria, but de-
termined neither to interfere with the arms of England
to support the one or the other. Every thing remained
in this state for upwards of two years ; there was
not any interference on the part of Donna Maria,
or against the individual who had usurped her rights.
Government preserved a peaceful neutrality during the
whole period.—(Hear, hear.) Towards the end of
that period, however, Government, which now
sate opposite, began to move. They expressed themselves
not quite content with the neutrality preserved, and the
then Hon. Member for Knaresborough made a motion
representing Don Miguel to have been placed on
the throne by the efforts of faction. At that period his
Right Hon. Friend at the side of him bad laid down the
principles of neutrality, founding them on the same prin-
ciples as those pursued by Mr. Canning, not departing
from, but contending for, non-interference with the affairs
of Portugal. On that occasion, the present Lord Chan-
cellor, differing from the Member for Knaresborough, de-
clared himself strongly in favour of non•interterence.
But upon that occasion the Noble Lord opposite made the
first of those celebrated speeches on foreign affairs which
had no doubt contributed to place him in his present situ-
ation. He took a view different from that which bad been
taken by the Noble Lord now occupying so important
a place in the Cabinet. It was then said that al-
though actively or by arms we could not interfere, it
was our duty, and the intention of Mi. Canning
to give to one party a moral support. An expression
which, he would venture to say, was not justified by any
thing which the late Mr. Canning had ever advanced in
that House, and in direct contradiction to the course
which he had taken in every similar case; and most par-
ticularly contrary to the opinion he had given when not
hampered by office, and when he coincided with and
adopted the rules laid down by the Honourable
Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Canning held that
the non-intervention to be adopted should be absoiute and
unqualified, unless they were prepared to sit night and
day to impose taxes, and exert the whole power of the
country for the interests of the party they had determined
to support. It was not until the month of February, 1830,
that his Majesty had expressed to the House of Commons.
But he had not deemed it yet expedient to place on their•
ancient footing the diplomatic relations of this country with
Portugal ; o❑ that occasion Lord Goderich made this remark
as his opinion that the time would soon come ►hen they
should acknowledge what was, de facto, the Government
of Portugal, for which lie did express his most earnest
desire. On the 3d of November, 1830, Lord Grey
had made no objections to the recognition on the
contrary he considered it desirable, but objected only to
coupling it with any measure on behalf of the exiled
liberal and incarcerated patriot. After this the new Go-
vernment was formed, and he charged the Noble Lo.id
opposite with acting inconsistently with the principles
he had avowed.