The Sun.
London, England, 1803-06-17 00:00:00

Ott the last visrtation, which were aftertitant;
changed back again to their old stag. Alter the
visitation was over, ti.;e. Board of Admiralty ,
thought it necessity to ,e 4,15,' foe 4 commission to
inquire inact there .abm, .i. The House indulged
ti m, ;ma a commissiOn was aopointed,e who h was
1. now, sittiog. 'n .). of course had all the Paper; :lid
I befete them. He hoped; hoWever, that when these
Rieleitis came rya be t;:deen :into eoosideration. that
the Boards', particularly the Navy and Vittualling
i lioara<, Tight. have an eveorruoity of being heard
i in their pstkiticatioo, No 3odgment could he form.
fed
upon the eoodua of tho!,,e Bowds, or upon the
I Report itseK before the Parties were heatd. The
Navy Rend were pereaty 'ready to enter into that.
huitificatiem. Thf,,,,, ~leq,lid howeverexpeCt a consider—
. : Lie &glee of Caiifflcur frOm the House in deciding
stekon their' con.;1101, ii it should appear that there
no seriuus tee Bled pf. fluty or any corruption
..e triborahl to them. All that was attributed to
'l,4,tey 'Board in all theoumerous•and exten.
~,(ItieS they had Li perform, those omissions
answered, a'id would be answered. The
r. ! , must be desirous to know the facts, and as
e: ei Isly ie hid; they should.be answerikl. He had .
.4., t very pat iently and heard Gentlemen talk of delin.
t- ~ nee; not indeed of corruption, for then he would
ortt ore sat silent, but- helrusted he should have
apt epportueity of defending himself in every point.
1,, r. COL? RTE WAY said, the Right Hon-Gentle.
nee - opposite .to hint had spoken very highly, of .the
First Lord of the Adatiralty, but would not .consent
to the produCtion of those Papers which Were calcu-
latel to raise his charaAer still higher. It was well
known that there had been strong and unfounded re._
flenions'tfirown out upon the condttfl of the Mini-
ralty, and on the visitation Which had taken place.
The objeCt of the Han. Gentleman who had made
the Motion was to spew the grounds upon which
the Board of Admiralty had 'proceeded. One oldie
Members of the Board of Admiralty had expressed
his wish that these Papers should be produeedit
was also the wish of the First Lord of the Admiral.
ty. Of the high eharaCter of that Noble Lord, c/a.
rum et venetabile nomeil, it was unnecessary for
him to say anything ; it was, however, some satis-
fattion to know that there was at least one of the
Members of the Administration who was looked
upon with resped and adtniration abroad.
Admiral B i..1.:K EL EY said, he deprecated all dis.
cussion upon this subject at present. At a moment .
like the present, when every one ought to stand
fdrward
.in defence of the Country, to see a squab.
tile beeween the two Boards was really a scandal to
the Couritry. This was not the time for Inquiry ;
it called for exertions. He therefore most earnest-
ly begged the Hon.. Gentleman Would withdraw his
Motion. He OK /tight consequences would ensue
from what had happened, that would palsy the ope-
ration both of the Admiralty and,the Navy Board.
fie was sure that the Inquiry was placed in good
hands,' and therefore. lie thought it ought not to be
taken from them ; he therefore' could not acquiesce ,
in the Motion.

I The A77ORNEY GENERAL said, he would
trouble the House with but a very few words,. He
could not conceive that there was any charge against
the Beatd to which the,Hon.; Baronet belonged. He
did not consider the qeestiori in that point of view.
The Motion was for the prirdealem of certain Papdts.
The objeetion ;shich had been made to it .by the
Hon. Admital, seemed to him to be the true Par-
liamentary groUnd of opposing it. The House
thought that in the first instance those Minutes
ought to be referred to Commissioners, and in order.
4 to enable them to determine upon the• subjett, the
} Minutes had been laid before them. Would it not,
be as most anotnaloui proceeding on the part of Par-
liamew, in, ihe first instance to appoint Commis-
, sioners to make inquiries, and then to call upon them
I for their Minutes- at the very time that their pro.
I ceedings were going on; and ,chile their Inquiries
I were to,fintshett ? It would require a few of the
reasons (which as the Hon. Gentleman who made
[ the, Miition had not stated' them in his opening
speech, he supposed he reserved them for his reply)
to prove that Parlianient ought to adept, such a eon.
dud. ' It had been grated that the' Admiralty Board
klt concerned at some slanderous reports .which
f had gone abroad, and to which some little coun.
tenance had been given in that House, and
that they wished that ell the Documents relative
Ito their conautt should be laid before,- the House.
This certainly was very honourable to their feelings
i as individuals, but he begged leave to submit to
them, whether their private consideration should not
for the present, be suspended, he did mean forgot-
' ten, but suspended at least for the present, and it
might afterwards he taken up in due time. .11 the
House Wished to take the Inquiry upon. itself, it
ought to have dOne it in thP, first instance, and not
now, wheel the Commission was appointed, and
when the Inquiry was going on. With whatever
industry the rrpoets against the Board of Admiralty
had been circulated, ' they certainly rhad not received
much counteri;oice in that House. Art allusion had
beeti made to the Motion of an ! Hon.' Baronet (Sir
Wit. ELFoRD), but as his arguments, however Con.
'vineing to himself, (lid . not -convince the mind of
any one Member in the House, and as the Motion
was not seconded; the Noble Lord and the other '
Members of the Board of Admiralty, might be sa.
tistied that though they might 10 attacked, in caluni.
niatory Papers, yet that their charatters stood high
indeed in that House, when the Hoe. Baronet-could
not find a single coinciding sentiment. with hint up.
on his Motion. Bar, tlire was another considera..
tion which weighed in his mind against the Motion.
It had been stated that there_ weredelingeents whose
cases ought to be brought befOre Parliement, in
order that they might be proeecored. But there
was no reason why the, Minutes shenhi, be laid he;
fore the House for that purpose, because the AT_
T-610'1EYGgsElt,S1, might bp ordered to prosecute .
them. And it was' but justice to the parties, if they
were to be prosecuted, that 0
itshould be done in the
usual way, and not by order, of that ijcime, which
would certainly raise unfavOurable prejudices against
them. He trusted, therefore,. that the House
would consider this an unreasotAle all'hoatioo, to '
take that Inquiry out of the hands Of the Conunis.
sioiers, 'against whoa no charge had- been in4de.-,--
Jr 'airdreci . to him not only that. there were, ri(4.,r..
i ia meet iark grounds for the Motion, but 1.-I):iivvery - '
14toupd, of Vat4.atAcrktary vvice4iO4 We 4itvOly •

against it. There Were • alto grail& of justice
against it, both with respea to the Public and to
the persons accrued ; a :premature disclosure of all
the circumstances which had come out in the cootie
of the Investigation, Mighedefeat tl:e objeft of-the
Inquiry,. and enableohosewho had been guilty of
delinquency to elute r public justice. It would
therefore be. better on,
every ground, that if they
were to be prosecuted, the re:craters. G.E.lstAao
Mould be directed to prosecute them by the Board.
Upon the whole, therefore, be hoped the Hon.
Gentleman would withdraw his Motion, though he
dill not think it very important, whether the Mo-
tion was withdrawn, or whether the Previous Ques.
tien should be pot upon it.
Col. BASTARD said, he could tint agree with
those who thoOght that the situation of the Coun-
try being dangerous, was a reason for not going
into an Inquiry into the sobjeft to which the Mu:-
lion referred ; on the contrary, he thought that the
more dangerous that situation, WAS, the mote was
the necessity for such an Inquiry ; and what had
Killen from some Hun. Gentlemen who seemed to
.resisi the Inquiry, appeared to him to shew its, ne.
cessity. Gentlemen had., said that the Public Ser.
vice had been impeded by the differetice which had
existed between the two Boards, the Navy and the
Admiralty Boark'ind some had said that the Ser.
vice could not go 'on while these differences sub-
sisted ; now he , thought this a, conclusive reason
.for the House coming to some decision upon the
subject, for-that otherwise the Public Service would
be still further impeded. Upon that statement he
should vote for the Motioe,,and he did so in hopes
that those means which were necessary for the
Public Service would be brought forward before.the
House, for lie thought our situation pregnant with
danger while those difntences subsisted; and while
Abele was no authority that could put an end to
them.' He believed that all the parties alluded
to 'in the course of-thii Debate, were honourable
men; lie knew that the Admiralty desired to cottn.
'craft all abuses that might be found to exist in any
department under their controul, and he saw in
Parliamenra wish to enable them to do it, and lie
had no doubt that abuses will be remedied as far as
the Admiralty can remedy them; but if the Service
of this Country was impeded by the difference gel
tween the two Boards, the House should lose no
time in coming to a decision that might remove
that impediment, for at all events the Public Ser-
vice must bi duly attended to.,
Mr. HARVEY said, he
,thought that an observa_
thin or two ought to be made upon the . subje4 now
before the House. He never was more surprised
than when the present Motion was brought
.fot.
wardO except when he heard 'the reasons on which
the Motion was founded. ' Many circumstances had
come before the, Commissioners which the House
could not know any thing of yet. As to the dia_
rider of the Noble Lord at the-head of the Ad.:
miralty, some persons had said some things-against
him,
,and others had vindicated him, but until there
was a' Motion made von that subjeitohe should not
Say' any thing upon it. If the suhjec't should ever
come under discussion, he should. say- what he
thought upon it, and he should say it freely, and
he should not fall in with those who bad praised
that charaner so much ; but he did not wish to
step our of the order of discussion to take mold
Of that which was not regularly before the House.
But ',crimps the subjeft of•• the toriduft• of that Noble
Lord was not so properly-the province ofrthe
of Commons to discuss, as the Noble Person alluded
to was a Member of the other House of Parlia-
ment ; and even 'if the charaaer of that Noble
Person was intended to have been- discussed, this
was an improper. 'Mode for that purpose, because
the papers now called for, related to one particular
transaction, and were confined to one visitation
made upon the subjeo to which the Report now
upon the Table referred ; hut if .the'House was to
entertain any inquiry into the conduct of • that-Noble
Lord, it must be done upon some specific grouod
laid .for that purpose, and riot he brought in inci.
dentally when another subjeti was discussed. As
to any, criminality in any Parties to which the.
Report referred, if there* existed any such crimi-
nality, the ATTO}tNEYGENEAL. was the proper
Officer to preisecute on such an occasion. At present
it was sufficient to say, that no ground had been
laid in support of the Motion now before the House.
He thought the period might come' when the cir.
cumstanees stated in the Report may come before
the House, and then the House would do rightly
in demanding all documents that might he rieees-
saryro facilitate the discussion; but there was no
such ground at present, for which .reason he could
not support the present Motion.
Sir .PRANCIS 114R11VG said, there was no
man upon eattlothat had 'more respell than he had
for my Lord St. Vincent, but he Was extremely
eOncerned that the subjeft of the Visitation of the
Dock-yards had been brought forward-on this oeca_
don: he understood- any thing of the proceed.'
ings of Courts of juseice, which ought to be a mo.
del for the 'House iii,Consmons, with regard to its
decision upon. qre weight olevidence, the rule was
this, not to give impliciteredit to any exanrination
in' chief, until after a cross.examination had taken
place, for. it often happened that the. truth not
*come out until; the cross.examination ira,d taken
place, In the case now before the House, evidence
was taken in a particular mariner, and either aired_
ly or inJirealy ftfleCting'on certain persons who had
no power to put one question on the of erside.—
He said he took- the liberty of making this observa-
tion,in consequence of a material feature in the Re,
pore which had beereso often, allUded to, particolarly
to-Bills drawn in the West Indies.

The SP aAK it reminded the Honourable Baronet
that this was not a discussion on the first Report,
but on the question of.the Prociudion of the Minutes
on the subject of the Visit to the Dock-yards.
Sir FRANCIS BAKING prOCCeded to observe,
that the Motion now proposed, tended , to, hold
forth to the world that a number of Frauds had been

committed on the Public, rind might make a very
great imprcslion, .when in truth the judgment of
the Public ought to be suspended until buth sides had
been heard, The concluskti which had been

r,„dy. draw„ fr,,m the evidence was tarred, but he
would venture tosny, that a few, and a very few
question* put on the other side, would dray., forth
such 4',lswC4s " 7410P1(1 Mike t 4 very persous who

had already given their opinions,-, form another, at.
redly contrary to what they had already concluied,
Mr. SHERIDAN said, thaiihe could not age
with the Hon. Gentleman opposite CO Mtn (Kr.
HA itvtr) who seemed to think that the Noble Lard
-at the head of the Admiralty was not to be myna.
Isle to the House of .Commons, because he wog a
Member of the other House of Parliament ; new,
as he Was First Lord. of the Admiralty, no question
could be constitutionally entertained but that his
condo& in such charaFter might be discussed in that,,'
House; neither did he agree with the Hon. Gentle.
man he. had already alluded, tr, as to the aparrcr.
from whence the discussion of the condua of that
Noble Lord should originate. It was not for those
who.approvedt of, but -for those who were disslrh!
fled With the condua of the Noble Lord, to call far
an Inquiry into such condud. It was not for those.
who applauded the charader of that Noble LoOt
but for those who dealt in insinuations (for charges
_he had not heard) against that charaaerato bring
the discussion forward; and sure he was, that who- •
ever. that investigation took place, it would red.ouod
highly to the honour of that Noble Loid. He tvas
aware that the House would phy no attention what.,
ever to any libels which might have been pablishea
in any quarter upon this-subjea. But as the 1-01$4!
bad been told that the force of the Navy Board Will
impeded by the proceedings of the Admiralty Board;
he thought that no time should be lost in adjusting
the difference between the two Boards at this
trientous crisis. An investigation should therefor:
take place without delay, so that those whodeSerre
.
honour shall receive honour, and those who 1101
punishment shall suffer punishment.
Sir A. HAMOND said,. in explanation, that
he did not say that the Navy Board was impeaf
by the Admiralty Bdard, but he said that neithe°
I,them would go- on so pleasantly as if there had been
no disagreement.
Mr. SHERIDAN said, he understood the 1-101'
Baronet to say that the Public Service was impair°
Mr. HARVEY explained e_ahe said he did aor
call on any persons to make charges, or to bring
forward praises on the First Lord of the Admi"J`r,,
He only said, that if any charges were made,
subject brought for Ward in a regular shape, that "e
should then have something to say upon the obi" ,
but that the subjed now tweet-, the 1 fame %vas o°'
of such a nature as, in his mind, to call for his °Pl'
nion on the condua of thaeNable Lord.
Mr.-WHITBREAD justiied the motives' plan
which he brought this subjett.forward, and i"
House,
with the wish so generally .expressed io tiro,
House, consented to withdraw it, The l*ti43
was accordingly withdrawn.
tsa

d,

The third reading of the Wool Bill, after a conversation :'
teem m 1 iaranldßAZiarK. EBLitsjo,x/Isr,...i,tstillotsotp.4oon„elyrt.oporii
seilegliStilip Btrning and Malicious Shooting 110:4, Ivcrl
ream('
ra.
othnirEd:Lti
antigave notice, passed,
thaton h
et
shheotAllidotolonn
4olitnit:li.
,:: *
rOk.ttiy-GENZAILL• . 4,,
[nova, that the proper Officer do retort to the Howe, on ...-
subject of the Expenditure of*Mony our of the First FrOil°
- ' Office in Irciaml, in the Reparr of Churchesilke,. I tti
The Iti-st.s.c.Tox-G.L.NEk;44 Of Exports slat elario.
brought up certain. AccOunts of the compotel Amnia, irtsi
tineraestßuiti-ithiberCcoonnssooliiiidlaatetitingk,tf
;ttainiluorti'eault,e4ract.i.....onos erttegbiL !H,
,••,
be laid on the Table.
The further ceomera : i ..•.• tea Bill assts'
. • -
tam of ' t,ie. orinna Pay
ferred to to•morrow. i , . Wit Al '
Sir jAktEk SiNoLALR, ExiKINS hrQl4/14 I'l' 11 '' ''
.. 4► 4,4,' a first •-•
leave to suggest ihe
time. •
. exitressed a ho
1 h PI
al. BAGWELL approved of the Bill,
. • fvrge.viiideialngletrlioieurt finttohCa.aFatilnaliisi-,NlTiiiini"olfirLl.L2t4lW'
l'' to, see the Prov.i..,ions or it extended •to I relaral, inc. _ggei%
be beneficial to Ireland. 11 oh,,'"c't that iil
Eligiall4
w 1"
Militia-Men , went into aittt.il service their .wives and chid.a
in Scotland,
tiren had relief front the arish to which OLT be1°41,1;,,., •
tiodnve:vtyithmoollay:lia!uinnideni
Something to.the battle elk.el was now about to thakel .,,.. ,
Men actual became beggars.,•He knew dive was too musilla
propriQty of doing so ; he knew it woroal
ngland, but lie Tully. wished some regulations to he n ,-
in that respell. • ' 1 r ill
Mr. itrA.'iabial said, that the situation of the '2°l°l..
Ireland WAS well known to be a subject of
refolransdutciitte
awisv)e,sstaemnd Ciotti. lidiporeor olf.„3•01141:11t.:::
t —whether the
was prepared_ with any measure, . was another point- 7.3 g
was, he should have the suport of Governmeet as rat.,,,,
it eatud, with their view ofd propriety be given, sod thai•le,..)
rlitt9ll should appear to be planer • but Ito must eooh to
e had hitherto seen no pliet upon ,thus subjcet to whi,s ~, of •
had not serious objections ,• out he was tar from thniPsigi'lqiis
Honourable Gentle.T4
something being done in that respect. With teSpla i° .
Main.ter.alne a the Poor • he li.id no doubt but that soo f,
thing might ,be snggeste:l and brought forwartit and oliii'.l',
meet the serious coriiii.i.
_II
gfinrebation of the House, and which might fttl.;,
something bite adequate relief, hut still ha must 0v0,,`, •
• Hon. Gentleman the Same answer iss,he gave him brj
which waS, that until some measure was sugg,estettOwfild
into some shape that he. could give his assent to, hr-c°-14
not assent
14) any measure, which might be. intended lir,
brought forward ; nor did he make. any pletige.—Jte444 1
edbei..l‘nfe,fhadt!r_aint,eagOcaainne:fOlitib.rntS:l:ervro_laUtibflotersrrVoafwtrOi.°M7 Aut-Prr. 11111.aisuesulbt;j:'...tE....el rita.
CERALO kn 4 Mr. WZl.BrarOkOr, the 13:11 was orikt.~
pit I
Ns
rEra,stml.ansdriceaSalatirtbpiirtrytßinillel,•aailldterpasfsezt,.s.vorthi (Pal Mr'
. A wore brought op the Report Mr. AL Ix
tee respeding tne Consolidation of the Excise Dutieth "4.4'
was re:al Motiond to, and a Bill ordered. '
resolved fluff;
into the of 31r. Coal% i the Honse 1
into a COMinittee to CofbidOr of ;he Acts of the Irish
liannent • • q- ' . •
ri.spei., mg the issue of Bank. Notes. ,if 314
' - afr coRR y .t-
-• 4, ...red, that by these Acts the ilisuelTi 13i't
Niter atat Bills of Exchange in Ireland was rest ti'‘,c't,tuser,
a certain surd. The issuing of, Silver Notts had. igw-vof
of the Cotnol,v.icti;
beeit permitted on the supposltion.tniit them. ware. 41- vv11.,,,e0f i
silver. lie intended to-propose glint the issue of these-Stir
Notes should be continued until the Ist of Januar), 1,7,...11
cloak which p:riod information migtit be obtimed ,11,,";ri. i
would enable them tainclge of the policy or impolieY ("'` .1 1
ttutiltlilesuCclistAiar t. riPaleir6mhoitn bv47:42teZl: toHientoh.for'7lloarrelenr°
After so - •' ' ' *
int, eon.•ersatiun between:- Ir. B 4.4111141'141 ICAO'
hriugt in a hill to contiOtte, alter, and amend those Aas,m,
co. p.V, Untl Mr. V,/ icalt Ait the klouse resumed, an--
WaS given to tiling-in-the Bill. tl3°. 11
,
Mr. At.fit A Ntitta brouglit'op the Report of the C 4
Consolidation Bill, which was read and agreed to. • 1, 1
Mr. VAN st •rr Ag -r moved aa:lause tei appropriatelto.ol44 i
fur the service chile pre.sent year, which was read and ag";
t9' aila4 ' Biii ordered to be real a tbirdtitne to-mrt oe_.,',.
1a 'a Committei: on toe Act for regulating th! Corn r4:11,,
between G.reat Itrittint and 1 relanci. the Chairman w 35 00
tdeted to - move iiir leave to bring in a Bill to. contintl,, to
said A.tt. The•Hodse having resumed, leave w3s 41"lhit A ' I
Bill' brought up, read a first time, and ordered to be (41-
:second time to- niorrow. .berf
Mr. A.t.sxa. 'Not Report. R brought up the Repo. of the o,r,tr or, •
Oath hill, which was read and agreed to, and the b" 1
• dered to be read a third time to•morrow. ; •li to
Mr. %%h00...re t moved liar leav,! to bring in aßs
transfer Seamen in the Irish Militia to the ItoYal Na)"'
bi:i 3: Itverec. goAitycertn.vx*
itaysrs n
andtrt A reoaluigs h, t
s.:
bt pi
ctbhe: waste: i
I.[si..loart
a•
tes rir tahg ere -i r";
o; '
and a Bill ordered. • ,of' ' I
Col. Vra ?Kra preset).* a Petition from the Tanotroi.
Ljtneriek against the. Leather Tax. Ordered 10 be gets 1
to the Committee to which the other Petitions fa tit.
subject had been referred. *
c, and committed tor to-morrow. • , .0 , The Loan Bill and the Customs Duty Bill• 'ogre rSka i
second
e Navigation Att Bill
passed through a Collitnittee.
Report f ,
o-ruortoor. •
Actionoßad at half nett s 4 'en till to.rnotrow•
• •