The Sun.
London, England, 1803-12-10 00:00:00

N.

ARMY ESTIMATES.

The SICRITARY at WAR moved the Order of
the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Coin.
ositee of Supply, to which the Army Estimates
were ordered to be referred. .
The House resolved itself 'into a . coMmi tee, Mr.
HoaHouse in the Chair., . . •'„
The SIiCRET ARV at WAR, said, it was unne--
cessary for him, to take up much of the time of the
Cominittee, as the greatest part of the Services for
which it would Ise his duty to move Votes of Sup,
ply, had already received the sandion of Parliament.
He should confine bireself. to .stating the ki ffr re nce
oetweert the V,,otes,now proposed, arid those of last
year. With reaped ttsthe first item, that of Guards
and Garrisons, the,number voted last Session; pare..
ly at an early period, and partly. at a subsequent time,
amounted in the thole to 108.901,.,the amount of t,
the present Estio4it was 1674669. making a differ.
errs of 58,768. This. difference .appeared'tube
large, but the greater part of theatigmentation arose
from the Army of Reserve,..fromi which an addition
had been made •roshe-Regular F0rec0139,4.77 men:v-
0f these 19. new Battalions had been tor Med of
rOOO men each,:atal 16 Reserve Battalions of 700
men each. The whole of the augmentation there.
fore amounted to r 2,455. , The Life. Guards and
Horse Guards had been augmented; 24 Regiments of
Dragoons had been augmented 42 2 men, the other
Regiannts of Dragoons had been augmented two
Troops ; an addition had been made to the three
Regiment! of For Guards, and the Regiments of
the Line,. and other sindll additions had also been
made. These were the only additions that had
been made to the regelar Establishment of the
Army. With respeCt to the next item, that of
General and Staff Officers, there was an addition of
,expence of 154,6411. this was undoubtedly, large,
but when it was considered the number of Officers of
that description whom it was necessary to employ,
the .number of Brigades and of. Brigade Officers, this
sum would by eo means appear, too large. The next
item the,,embotlied Militia, and FenCible In.
fatitry, which amounted to 169,447, and the other
theVolunteerCorps. lie had omitted however stat.
ing the augmentation to the- Regular Force in Ire.
Land. The Army of Reserve thereotttached to the
Regular Force, amounted to .1.0.5.5;-•-1827 had been
added to the-Dragoolis and Walloon Guards, and
other small• additions. The Estimate of the expence
of the Volunteer Corps was ttiViticti into two heads:
the first* those of Great- ilritain, and the other,
those of Ireland. With respect to Great Britain,
it was rather a loose ,calpulation, as it was
ble to state: withssudicient. accuracy the atlual
' pence.-- The Committee would be. aware that the
increase stukve ',the .enetice•:a last year was not
before die House., The eresent Estimate, found.
ed upon general calculation, .emounted,,to 730,000.
It appeared,: luovaver,, by, the Return of the Vo,
lunteer-Corpstni Great 'which he . had
that momerW tosen,.-11tat they amounted to no lege
than. 379.943...,._ caleolat tog the expence,' the
number heti been taken at .320100(); it would, there.
fore; of course appear, that, the attual expence was
very likely to exceed the Estimate—it was how.
ever to be; olitterve4 that ,out of the number of Va.
lunteera, 4;05 t 4 terved without any pay whatever.
Forty-six thousand Infantry,; and,
.22,000 Cavalry,
had-been established on the. regulations of June last,
and 5 z 57 onsthe allowattecs made since. The expence
of Pay.aod cloething, taking the various periods of
duty whiehtfisight lieppen to arise when the Volun,
leers weeetallettonduty,..wastvery likely to increase
the Estimate. Amongst the items of expence vela,.
tlwliivhellestheos tshele:7tatss Volunteer
elle C:l:)ersnia"ele. hawafai t hweetna eAlcg4(cEdscuiyclie°lr vafflebel of
but upon the whole a saving accrued from it of
20,0001. a year. With yespett to Ireland, the Stale
of that Coenteyrstitd, the various, services upon
which the Volunteers had been called, rendered the
expence mote considerable in proportion. In this
tt Estimate snore Volunteers were calculated upon than
were adually embodied ; the present number was
70,000, and they Calculated on 80,000 Infantry,
and 12,4300 Cavalry, to which number it was

',1.,

c

f PRICE SIXPENCE.

hoped the Volunteer system of that
Country would be extended. From the nature
of the duty, however, van which the Volunteers
t,f Ireland had been, and were very likely Ire.
quenity to be called, it wo difficult to estimate
the expence, whilst si larger allowance must be
made ro them than to those of Hagland.—At
the • same time the Officers received no pay, and
Iht%xC Men only received pay who Were adually and.
efficiently on duty. There was one suhjed relative.
to which there were no Estimates belote the Hou6e,
but which would be laid before Parliament early
after the Recess;---he alluded to Foreign Corps, some
of which had already been sandioned by Parliament,
and with respect to others, inqasures were taking in
various parts of Europe to raise them wherever men
could be brought into the service of this Country.
There euutd be liowevernoaccutate Estimates upon
the subjed at present ; added to which, circuit.
Stalle4B of some delicacy prevented the suljeet front
being at present brought, forward.. "Iliere was also
atiother. article •of expence which-:waS oar included
its the resent, Estimaiesohat of-Barracks. Barrack*
had hero cartied.to,,:an
.extent greatly,soptrior tau
any thing that .had been done in that way before,
and it was impossible ar,present.to lay, before th'e-
'HOuse an ultiinate estimate of the expence. Ttje
whole effective force of the Kingdom, both Re.
gulars and Militia, were however now covered with
Barracks, and the estimate of the expence should be
laldl betnre Parliament as early as possible. Upon
this subject, ai upon every other connected with
business before the Committee, lie would give.
every Information in. his power that was required.
He concluded by Moving, that a number
.at Land
Forces not exceeding 129%039 men, including Coin..
missioned and Non.cOminissioned Officers, he voted
for the service of the year from the 25th December
1803 to 25111 December 1804.
Mr. Wi NDHAitt said, his view of, this .stabjea
was ;80 different from that Of. the Hon. Secteutry,
that his observations might not seem to arise out of
-the Finn. Secretary's statements. His view of this
'subject went to the general defence of the Conniry
both present and future, and on ibis Alibied he
seiiree;y knew where to begin. 1n.100ki.% at the
danger which seemed to have absorbed every other
considetation, and the mea,htes which had been
adopted: to avert that danger, he could not lose
sight of the Persons by whom Public Affaits were
conducted. Of, their eondurt he. could not better
express his opinion tliati in aortae poetic lines which
were to bemet with on .tnany Windows,: and, which
did - not prove :the gallantry: of that Poet to the
Fair Sex. Alter speaking u,t the. faults of Men, it
was said,

XV 01 tlen.hve but two,
:171)cre's nothilifi'tiOtt they s4y, jior nottlinr, goui

In the present instance he would take the ;wpm:
latien and energies of the Country, and. thelnoneke
which Ministers had. had at their disposaleand then
consider what they had done. He might 'take up
the business from. the Treaty of Amiens, going
through the confidence expressed by Ministers of
permanent Peace being secured at a time when they
knew that War could nut be avoided, and when
afterwards their partizans without doors *tie ine
struded to say that he who believed in the perste',
nence.of Oat Peace, ifillit bC Nature's fool and not
Mr. A DUI NGTON'S. He would, however, pass by,
all that period, he would supppe that Miinster, felt
that they were tiding perlealy right in giving up
OW conquests, in parting with men whom Ale:), had,
got fur five guineas, and. for whom they must now,
give fifty, whilst, many were, not. to be had again
at all, 'and in selling off all our implements of War,
some at half price, area others for the mere price of.
the old iron which they contained—he wreald there.
fore suppose all this was riglr. He would there.
fore start from the Bth of March, and consider what
they had done during a period of nine months. fire
would take the general Population of the Country,,
consisting of 15,000,000, and the Expenditure. In
Beimties to the Army of Reserve, 1,000,000 had
beeteeepended—,it was true it had not been raised
by Parliament, but it had been drawn from the
pockets of the People upon %%demi a Tax rhos
been imposed by lot, By the Estimate of the Ex.
peaces of the Volunteer Corps, it appelred that more
than 700,0001. would be required, this would prove
to he little 'short of a million, whilst it cot
individuals a great deal more—it might he
mated at a million inure. Here therefore was “bout
3,000,000 expended, in little more than the mere,
creation of force. During this period, the Country
only waited the signal which was long kept hack;
whither Mrsiisters were. afraid of frightening the
holders of Oatnium or not he did not know, but
the. fan was, when they. called upon ,the Country it
eame. They did not call spirits from the .vasty
deep, without their coming ; they
.Were then
frightened at what presented ; they had no
sooner began to dig 4 well, titan the water loser, so
fast ...upon them that they were afraid of being
overwhelmed; they no sooner turned the cock, than
the water spouted in their eyes.—The force we
had consisting of ,neatly sce,oeo Men, wets a
splendid force and worthy of the Country. , It was
to be considered, however, how mueh of I,,th ani
ptaister there was in this force in the fir,t place,
there were 370,000 Volunteers, then they rnu/e
take 70,000 Militia, 16,03 of the Army of Re..
serve had not been raised at all, and abnot 6,orea
temained, unattached. Thus in all, it appeared that
no more than Bodo had been added to. the Regular
Force, though it would appear frost, the steterntlitS
of the Hon. Sneetaty, that the number asnuut,rt.rl
to 7,000. The second Battalions, of 0:d Regi.
toms, composTti of the Army of Reserve, he el.
lowed. might pass for Regular Soldiers, hut the
Battalions of Reserve were, he tlh
fit for any service, and the longer they re.

"tined the worse 'they would iseCome. There
he considered, had. ,been brought to a 1
'great degree of perfeition, although they mirsobe de.
ticiena in that experience which was only to be ac-
'quired in Regular Service. With resped to the
Volunteers,- he knew there vete persons lying in
.a air o) misreoresept.his worifsooii.that subjedt—
hat it was not against the Volunteers that he oh.
?ded, but against' the Volunteer System t 376,000
Voluorecas taken indiscriminately,. os even taken
by selection, must necessarily be an 0o:iota force.
When it was said that the -Voltmeters ltiitfamong:
Oran a great deal
.of the zeal and spirit of the
Country, he would allow, that the irst of these
whO enrolled theMselves ..undoubtedly had, but'
many of those who latterly came forward', did
air on account 'Of the' excioptions to' which they
Were entitled ; they poured in when they found a
door left open for them in that
.respeet. It was'
not however the Volunteers+ who were deficient, but
the Ministers; they could Ira entirely spoil the.,
Volunteer, system, but tliefhad done every thing
to tender it inefficient.. There was another sulijqt
which might appear trifling, that was the Carathing
of the Volunteer*. According to 'the Rignlationt,'
issued, all the Volunteer Corps were to be clothed
in Red. This marked their destination ';• they were
formed into Regiments, and then into Brigades
regular way, without any reference to tlitalitierence
of their situations, habits of life, health or Adiv
Some of the Volunteers were advanced in years,
others' were itiottive art of ,habits of life. not fit.,
ting them for military exercises ; Others. had (anti-
lies, or could not leave their busineas without
ruin, whilst those silio were capable of aaive
litary exertions were, by the present system, tied
and chaiord to 'those who were incapable. It they
were not made toreful Troops to at in the Line,
they were rendered in a great measure ineffiCient ;
if a General wanted to seize an eminence, and had
Troops that he could depend upon, he might calcu.
late upon It to a certainty ; but if he had not, the
service might be materially injured. The Voluti.
icor Corps, in his opinion, ought to be formed'on
far different principles; they might be made p body
of armed light troops,' to annoy .and harre-se the
Enemy in every direttioo; in the-same way as Ge.
neral Burgoyne was harrassed in America, by a simi-
lar description' of troops, who marched to the scene
of action with two or three days priavisions, and-
(might till they Were succeeded by others • thus
servant it up hot and hot,' until they_ keeled
every thing. After speaking of animated in.
at he most- go- to inanimate ones, resm`i..'
ing which Minister. bad one day ridiculed the
idea of fortifying London, 'the next adopted it,
and the, afterwards abandoned it. Much however
might he dove in this mode of defence--Y armuuth
Reach, for instance, afforded a great facility to an
Enemy to land ; this he thought would be best de.
fended not. by Redoubts but by the famous Martello
Towers. It was historically well known to ino.t
Gentlemen Present.' that a 7+ gun Ship, ctottnanded
by a vrry gallant Officer, had endeavoured to barter
down one of these Towers, .but after hay tug lost
8o or too men, 'Was obliged to run- only one
goo heing all this time planted in tire Tower:a-a
It was an extravagant estimate that one of these
"Tows:rs wools coo ricrool.; but taking- it at
this, 30 of theta would co, rid 30i0001. which
was no great expenee, considering the present ex.
penditure of OS State. There was another pits of
our f Tree to which he wished tnedvert, which wail
the Sea Fencibles. Of these he
,thought that they
shotild'nor be used unless where 01084 :access tor.
The id 4of these men pushing off French force
attempting to land, with their pikes, appeared to
him truly ridiculous; it was lilt, Fribhlesay.
ing, sr Stand off; stand. off,' Gentlemen;" they
• might as well attempt 'to do it with bodkins Or
needles. Recurring howeier to fortifications,- it
*tented to be the opinion of Ministers that it' Was
useless to do any thing unless they could do every
thing; that-it was no use stopping' the mice out of
one hole in the pantry, unleor they could stop Al. it
might be true that if one link of a chain was broken,
the whole' was of no use ; hut irwas nOt so with a
Chain of Nits.. It utii;hr he said that Wow weak
part was known it Would be' •attacked; but the
answer to this was, that it might not be known,'
and if the Enemy attacked a StriMger part and was
repulsed, he could not hien(' iniklblev. It could
not therefore be amiss' to strengthen' one 'part of
our Coast, although' another might ire made weaker.'
lie admitted that if it was attempted'ao strengthen
every part 'there would 'be strength no' where, hut'
this was no argument to peove that any part of the
Country ought' to he left in a 'defenceless state.
There appeared,'however; a sort 'of niggardly pat-
siniony on thetart of 'Ministers; in getting as
much as they 'could from the Pockets of Irtdiri
duals wititottt Coining 'to Parliament. It was aisar.:
simony like that of a perlain giving a ii4entild'
Dinner, and paying 'a .Guinea a Qtrari'`'fraf
green pease, and' then grudging `:.the exponce of
salt, or of a clean table-cloth. `:Much had been said

- .
about machinery bett.his great ohjedion .was, that
,the machinery which- Ministers had put in motico,
appeared too complicated to test •i: it put him in mind
of lingarth's story of a man who had invented a
very eornplieated machine, the ohidt of which wars
to draw a cock, which a Wderer with a common
corkscrew would draw whilst the other's machine
Was putting in motion. A very cc.omintliousire of
this machinery, was the Meetings ol Depuq.Lieureo
nants ;,the Clerks to these•Meetinv wire Gentletnio
of the County, who were not vatdfortheir atter&
slue, whose time.allotted to the business was three
minutes a' week, and with whom a keret remained a
week before an answee was returned, How business
dads kind war carried on m;ght beillustrased by a
circumstance which happened in Norfolk. The
signals in that County ought to have been est blish.
eat with the 'utmost celerity, but not three weeks
before the Meeting of Parliament these.sigtials-ki
not been completed. This arose from all that ma.
chinery to which he had alluded ; the Lieutenant
of Division refused to set 'shout thorn until he was
assured that he should be repaid the eapence, the
Deputy Lientenants refused to he answerable for it
until they had consulted the CoUnry, they however.
at length agreed to become responsible for epee e
r to the meantitric, however, the &imitate),
refused to send down persons to take charge of the
signals until proper signal posts were meted, and

dills the sigpis which ought to have been ego. '
blished immediately remained unerdleil during a peg
rind Of eightmunths. Nu inslividnal was to blame in.
this, instance, it all artniti. front the system which
hail been established- by Ministers. These Eiti.
mates gave no assistance to the form ition of opinion
on the subjeft, .hut his great cibjetlion to the sys-
tern'adcrpted by Ministers Was; that it .cut off the
means of raising Troops. They: surely could not
think the Volunteer Corps a.permanent source, and
yet Ministers :talked of an adjournment without
making any provision upon the subjea of the Vo;':
Jiinteer Force. That system' must 'be soon. worn.
outs untess some efficient' measure was resorted eti::-•
they' were robbing every description of force : the
Militia robbed the Army, and the Volunteers. rub.
bed the Militia; in sliort, it was a general system
of robbery. if any exertion was to be Made there
Must be a disposable Army, but mere safety seem.
ed to be our. utmost horizon. With all the ma.
chinery of Ministers, only 5,000, or according to
the +Linnutable Secretary at. War, 7,000 men,
had been added to- the regular force,' with all the
pounds of beef and chicken that bid been 'stewed
down, five quarts of ordinary soup had been
produced. 'Besides the evil ''of large bounties was
enormous; those who had receiVed them Could never
be brou'llt"to look down upon moderate bounties
with any degree of complacency. If an additional.
force consisting of Volunteers" was wanted, let there
be no self.eletted Committees to 'impose fines, but
let them be Volunteers OrtlY' at their first entrance,
Volunteers in the same manner as, the whole Army
were Volunteeri. The question now was, whether
we were to have an Army or not ; and when in the
course., of nine- months only 5,00 men. had been
added to the Armyt boi could we go en without
some such means as. ,he hail suggested ?--He
was as little a friend' to compulsory measures.
as any man, but he . would,not Court' pcpularity,
by, decrying them as unconstitutional.. - If .sub.-
stiturion ways, aboliihed and. Men enlisted for a
.term of, years instead of for life, -arid seumpulsory
measures were resorted to, then the army might he,
recruited, but otherwise he saw no means by 'which
our Army could_ he effettively increased.
Mr. SecreNry I'OhKE said lie should not fol.
low the Right Hon. Gent, in all his arguments, but
only notice some, parts of them Which', seemed to
xequire animadversion. It did not require tile
ability and ingenuity of tlieltieit Hon. Gentleman
to bring. forward such observations as many .of
those which. hr had made. Many of the measures
to which that Right Hon. Gentleman had adverted
had been brought forward to meet the exigencies of
„.crir;eat period, and did not deserve the criticisms
which had been passed,upon them by the llight lion.
Gent. With respect to the quotations oldie Rt. Hon.
Gentleman, he should not observe upon what mini.
stets said, but what they did the House and .Conn.
try would judge. -Better Speeches might be made
then those of bliniitters'; but no criminality could
be, attached to their Measures. There might' be
gond Opposition Speeches, but' there were better
Nlinisterial Votes. A' great. part Of the Speech of
the Right Hon, Gentleman, appeared to be &reeled
against the eit.blished System of the Country ; he
would not go into details ob. this subieet ; but tin.
, der the present circurOsanees of this Country and of
Europe, it might 'be necessary to, alter the whole
System. It was rather hard, however, that mea.
sures should be so-much arraigned, which had been
adttpted in par. mince of a system icing pursued, and
Which hadvsevr t been °Wetted to by Partiament.—
'the Right Eitin.'Gentleman had spoken of the
'Treaty, ut Ainient, and the period subsequent to it,
and not lOr the' first time, but at no culler time 'was
the Country. 01,1-4(1 in so etfcelual a state of defence
during a period of peace as in that •uhsaquent tea
the Treaty vi Amiens.- 'No Tromps were di,bantled
during that period, but thosewho turd been enlisted
for limited service, or about whosi: rime of service
some doubt existed. With respea to 'the regular
force; it had been more:than doubled since the pro.
rogation of Parliament ; pit Was then 60;oco and it
was now upwalritirYnf 't to,ooo. 'lt was said that
the Army of 'Reserve were not. regular Troops.,
bathe truste&ar least that the first.and second hat.
rations, which had been added'', to the regular
Troops fr,,rn the Army of Reserves 'were' as
good as any Soldiers that could 'be added' lit
an' equally short .space 'of time: As to the
Battalions of -Reserve, they: were expressly cont.'
loosed of those whowere less Olive, thwthe'rest,
but notwithstanding which they were equal to
Garrison duties,' and. in , proportion as they were
employed in that, the rest of ilielorce was more
disposable—With respdt to the Volunteers, he
found that they sentiunted to 341,678 rank and files
The Field Offietesi Captains, and Subalterns amount.
circa- -1.:7,000, this would account 'for the delays
which "took place, in the names of . tluisel Officio: ap.
peering in the: Gazette: The Right Hon. Gentle.
man 'had 'saiii,,that the. Volunteers:, were 'brought
forward in a way which rendered client Inefficient,
as they were deprieed of all thell•mAive-etiergies.
He' could not underatand what the Right Hon:
Gentleman meant, •unlees it was that they should
not be taught any of those manciouv res. Which could
alone render them effeflive.; The Volunteers
most be made use of by the General -Offiter under
whe,s'e'erittneand 'they were placed, in.whitever way
appeired hints Moit:adVisible. ' Beeklei in this
Country there. were' not many opportunities of two
armies
,beingdraWn up In regular line, sod- ss trite
as making thetnetny believe that there was si greater
efeetive torce'than' really calmed, he supposed die
Volunteer., 'night 'l* Of. smite service. Added to
this, it in.alit very" fairly be supposedlitat a great
number of these Volbattert would be forward to
assist the Regiments of the Line, by
.I.heievolun.
tary zeal, and he Is as confident that'on the day of
af.ti v service, many. would. 'volunteer for 'such a o'er;
vice. Ali Malt-Olen lied been made to the cloatlfilig,or
the Volunteers, but zed was the nationalcolour, and
by having the 'ollie . '‘colour .for all the
Troops, great confusion would be .prevented, whilst
the Voionteers having the same Cloathlng with the
Troops of the. Line, the. Enemy could' riot distitu
visit by their cloaths the description of Troops
they had in content! with. With resrett to the Vo.
lonfeee system in general, objeOlor's 1W been Riad*
to it,' .he 'scarcely knew why .:. the Aels.relating to
the. Volunteers had .beeti brought forwardly wfini.
atm, and were passed without any material ahem

_ . .
tine. If there were objettion) to them, these "Os
ought to have been resisted so. linafte. ; it the), % :re
now .ereoneous, it was not tornuchelte fault of Go.
verntnent, as the fault of those who did not oh_
jai. eo them in time. It was not to he said
to the Volunteers at the time they came for.
ward in the. Defence of their Country, 'that they
were tole cam—Pilled to -he placed-in such and such .
particular classei ; on the. contrary, it was found
necessary and expedient to
.auTer them to he cm. ,
bodied Corp accortlios , to, „ the ;ay stens now asset
trpond (-With reaped to the exemptions,
.there wail
`an express clause that those. who were compelled
14o,cotil'e forward .should nut .he exempt. . It had
been said, that a-- diteeting • mind watt w.antieg
fie did not pretend to have that dire ling mind,
hut those in•Adininistration would do their duty,
and they would then be supported by that House,
their Sovereigo,:and the Country. As to the gees.
r• lion relating to Fortifications, ,he did not wish to
go into it at length; it must be attended with an
enormous expence, and he would rather-that there
' should be no other means of defence left-before such
an expence was incurred.' He thought, however,
that too little atention had been paid to this 'ubjea,
and he never regretted any thing:more than the plan
of Fortification brought forwurd'in 1786, shouhl.he
negatived. With respe6t to the See Feecibles, he did .i.
not extiftly . know of what they consisted, but
he 'thought some arrangement 'ought to be made
upon' the soiled; they ought certainly no to -.in-
elude any person hahie to the Itnpresa,:liut Pilori,
and Fishetmen resident. on the Coast; who might be
of essential service, and by whore: rainy Gun.hoats
had ulteady been manned. Ai to recruiting. the
Regular Army for. a' term of years, it 'would be
produftive of much serious inconvenience,- as when
;.the terms,of service were expired, it might hapoen.
that we should have no Amy remaining.
Mr: .1.3111' said, it was not.,his intention to go
into _a detailed examination of the question, whethir
.the powers which had been entrusted to His Pla.:
jesiyikfrlinisters:hitd. or had not been judiciously
employed,, or whether they might not have been_
exercised more lorthe benefit of the Coimtry.—
. These. were points which, did not., now. necessarily .
call for discussion, and therefore he should not at
present enter into ahem., . He was: the more inclined
to avoid entering into those points, becausehe con-
,fessed he was :anxious at thii .moment to *fix the
wl'ole of his attention to the dangers which threat-
ened :111A Ctitliatr. He thought that at a great and
urgent crisis, such as that in which, we at present
stood, we eaght to look . in nothing but the , best
and most effeetual means of completing' whatever
might yet - neossaaty. f Jr. the complte de-
fence of the empire. If -.he. was ,not ioci;ned
to examine the past condat of Ministers with
regard to the, means which the Country. had
put in-to . their hands, .still leis . was he disposed,
prospe4tively to examine... all the different and
important questions to which his Right Honourable
Friend had alluded ; they :were too large, toe. in,.
pn.rtatit to be introduced collaterally into a Aleliate. -
Waving, -therefore, fur the present,'the considera.
titan tat all these topics, he- would con4ne ',hi/itself
strictly to the suSjedt then .before the Committee,
viz. chic number,.tfie Amount, the management, the'
formation of the different desalts-dorsi of Military
Force which had been provided'hy His M.jesty's '
Ministers for the dffence of the Empire, antrwhicit',
were slated in the.Ltitnates now upon the Table of
the Committee.. - He. was the more arm i lud to deliver
his sentiments 'upon these points, becau.e he had
the misfortune to.differ. Materially upon mans..pointi
from His Right Hon. FriendjVh. Mi I Nosteet), and-
piirtteuletly with . regard to 'that description of
force to which we were -in a great degre to took
for safety. .He..certnitily . was of .opinion, that
our Regular Atmy should be keptpuporra great
and respeCtible footing, that was an objea:which
lie I),,ped would never be lost sight.oi. 1 He also
agreed pettedly with .his Right :Hutiourable
Friend, .that the Regular, Army hau attained a de.:
gree of perfettion whiCh it , was irupossildx.to et.
pe4t from the other description of Fore&whinh had
13etetritliatleil to. :Alto he. still retained obe.:opiditin
' whichllizhad More than otece..delisketed in the last
Sesslun,--aa.opinion . which appeared to have nut
w I th •,,the .goner4' et/new:twee of.,- Par liame tie ; tie
pliant' the prop'. itty3,l entithl tehing.:a la rgeNolun,-
seer Force. Upon. this rint, therefore, hitniust
acquis.His Majesty's Ministers of thechaqe brought
against' them by his Right Hon. Friend. '. It was
the opinion of Patliatnent -then repeatedly aoil dis.
tinaly expressed, that we ought not to rely fiarde.
fence upon our Regular Force alone, even wheitadd.
ed to the Militia, 'hut that recourse ought, to. he had
to a great National Force, whether raised -comOulso-
4ily, or whether raised as happily sod gloriously for
the Couotry as it.had ireennby. the free rand eppeta..
peens zeal of the People. ~ He, certainly. looked to
the AfOty,af the great rallying point to which ; the
VoluOteet li orce.mast lia vie Fr.sutt tbs., by 'whesse ex:
ample they must be regitlated, :by,
.w)tose etpeftl,
ence they must .be guided; :and,,sopported Ittiwit
~ris, courage, they must be inyksilsle. H.qct#ke#
to the Army .ae forming. the, centre Of oflt,,,vat
§ystekosof defence,, but he should .be.taorry
,19,J00k
uport.tt,prily, in thiit,,point of view; he hopertwsee
them soon employed ioeqye exertiOna.apioaA, le '
syell.as it, deborce et praise.
,Wtth', efretf to the
trulUnceer Force, he looked upon them ae,iillee.is,,il
a lintel, and that no very long tirnr, to betnitove
.and matured to so‘di a degree of
.perfettion as wouldanal Government toepuiloy. 4-large pomiliri of
the egular Army 4)1.01 ,i ' its. such
,aervioe..as the
ii4OreNt 01 tie.: Empire Might require, oribe;'patiftc' .
.
of circiaotitances might admit. Either (haVirig at..
ranged turd completed all the measeres trecei±tail for
nor Ogle* et. home) its defroding oor mote, sliaunt
pitttpssinitzOnt the possible attacks of. tii.giiiiiy,
, ~..
91, pl. ill Kitilf,% f 044, tanettty upon glOdi po4Atitivon
4ifli 1E 'yeas ,most vulnerable, or if, fetitilately
L
fn,e, the, 4r,iness qf mankind, the prospett should'Ope;tiiren, 14.4.4444 g in effettirts the delirtrance.
of utope.—With 'these. feelings and n ith thli
view of the .00b0. sn. far from lamenting that
we had 'sn' large. a 'Volunteer Kiri*, it was' a
subje4 which airordelf hiin siniete • satisfatiltin.
.....40 to the `amount' Of that force, he eiw'no.
alibi to -cOMplain of ; certainly Le should be the
last man in the ct tnitry tat complain that it .v is tc,.
large"; mit, on ;heather hand, did he think it W43-iOO
, small. if then was any thing which lie had to. wish

Hleccl olu ollidis •
tliriti,n_llll3 subjell,. it uras,- that chi propel-6(.11'i,,
w
have 'wished that the number had been
number was distributed wainot differtin.
greater in- the more
,exposed and more vulnerable
parts of oar Maritime Coast. With this opinion,
c with regard to the- !timbers of the Volunteers, be
rTaiply
,could. ;tor.agree in thepropriety of that
le wlnch'it had been attempted to lay down, viz.
that the Volunteers should only amount to six time'
the number of the old Militia. He was decidedly
of opinion land thoogh nyo'n such a subject hit'
opinionw was nut very impollibt; yet it • was'one in
litc he had been fortifietl'biihe puthority of all
thethe
Military Men he-had .ever conversed tvitli.uPon
number
tbteimmuce
il:
subjeft), that a sm.dler number of men Who-could
almost before they could ascend. the bead),
oppose the f;qemy immediately upon their landing,
and
more serviceable
theB nem yh -I
athan h
obtained
he much
dal :forgoter_
and.
.pa r ticularly
tng in the Country,; in every point ,tif view, there-
tore,in that which was nit:st ester,
nal, the economy of lives, .it would' be ,better
that we should have the larger part..or our ForLt
within that distance of the coast that wnalil
enable them, to enciunter ,the Enemy arm 't if"'
mediately upon their landing. ft this was true
as to the means, it watt, more so as to the oh jetig
because -to sttppose the Enemy had Ail vattecil bo4itt
as 014 the Volunteers wit t were distant from tits
C.ast might encounter them, would he to admits
scrne of devastation anti tii%gr,lCC,, though•ultimateir
ending, as it must do, in the tut:
d destine6oo4
the Enemy; But wishing thal ,no species 04 recs•
tit)/ should be neglected, that %bile we were fe.
s.istieg the first attack, we should prepare for dry
most unfortunate 'events ; thst• while we Were pie;
venting' thetn from ascenting the (teach, we Avoid,
at. the. same time, be prepared-1Q meet. them too
miles
.from the Coast, and that we shettl(1.1)0( 4rail.
tiplied meson of opposing obstacles to preish, he vent. their
farther progressy,Antertaining this w cm..
?sillily could' not condemn 'the precaution of having
large reinforcements of Volunteers -in the Interia,
though he c.ttiltl not but. wish that thereA woe a
greater numbers nearer to the Coast. But.the
which he had more immediately'in view, Was to
render this Force (the existence- of which was •s!).
s°lntelY neCessary) not merely U nominal force; nag
one to alarm the Enemy with^ the numbers that
woe
to meet them,. not a Torc.:. C;llcollitea only to 4044.
a display upon Paper, •bot to make than an efßcient
and permanent Army, that solOng' as the &P
fa
lasted would maintain its numbers-, irnrtnbr r
e its di.
ciptine, :and be making daily advances 4o hideoutstar
perfeCtion., He was ailitreltensive, as far at It
v"
*Faw the Estimates, that' ,the contained. no 1"
Abu forgiving a greater degree oftii,cilt/iwi'sYster-gmli
anti jritprovement, than those 'wnich they .nve in
road to obtain at:present. lie heggea let):":i,''c'.
that with as great an 'enthusiasm ,anti aOottr .(1* c
Vo!otteer system as any man, he ertiainlY 111.° •
1,. ! that' lie did. nett think they would do it."'
.triCe tn. the Acid of the 'Council in its own de'
lenne...s if, they did not 'take . effeCtual rritilll6 ta.
render :that: seal more • 41cient in its nature
'4 Mlle permanent it its ,dbration. ilt there
the reverse
fore held an opinion direct) of that
3
which had been ritlintained tit, ills. Right Hon..
He could by
Friend, and se far was lie 600 COtilrillin.i..lll4l we
ii,ati Va en too mach system,
LOtS lunch diKtplifie In
the olutitedrs, he was :wad they had too little.,
. po clear' .
should be used merely AS a tuJe irregular ma's, with.
out eider and tvithOurdiscipline,,if that were, tho
;me, nothing would be necetts.ity but an eoroftnenro
• $ think that the Velum
and' lbeltossination of Leaders--diere sVoilki be 1
occasion ,fiirdri;iing or tikiplitte : tiletet4 !ie,
would be to make the same number or men %vta
""c'Plil4,",do toots than 1114 SiIMC 1411111)a- of
try and to thetas:elves.
could -der wishoosir, and with lets risk to thi..C.1,10"
"nleillitely to the subjeefs ht wi,ltcd that wit's ill'i'
been done- in someinstances sh.luld lit dote :i" '
or at least wherever it .was i'o"ible ;13° °caw'
that all Volunteer :Companies 'shoulctihr: tn.. 9414
t"ct'in'aattalitrinti, and :whenever it ,cotild bc*Cro
To apply this oleic ttottl
wt°' make them :frequently :assemble ilt,- nr.ig4s;;
7iill'llgard to the fortriewit Certainly ght
done almost every where,7becatise there ,weteYelf
few pints' where the ‘Tolunteers weVes•Q Oli'lY .`'•tald
feted that they might.not •.be for Med into 11 it tdions,,
"Y the4e.means they .woOld.obtain one-great Mail'
4: improvement, viz. 106.0:anon anti CuPti,
The next measure he would propose Woold )eiol
give to every Rated:ion of.Volonreeta fit' 81:41,
to thostrOffieera MAP bad' been 'chosen hog 1.,' "4,
rank AO:charge:Ler, -tsar ,Wllo' %MC, not intico
professional:m*o, the
.assistance • 01. fge,..';;„elins
! 'had Seen service,. to at.sist:thevn 1".„' ":.- 'WA
forward their Battalions. He meant "4'.',1,d os
shnsfd net be ICSS than one Field .°6:r,711 ne,
Atlkitaot to earls Bat t atiOn .- such :Ow"'' ill t*.
tainingetheir-rank anti pay in the Arni,.4Y' e' geoids
pence of this. measure :he kilo's, ! "'o tip, be
.-I,l*
h.!11.', he know', also from: experiePce',.,:i ito
.".tritence, between those , Oartail broil .. ",.,4,4-„'„,4„ who
tirvantage of being instrufted by Field t-1411"--iicil 0
nad &e'en service anti those had not. 15 1-eocii.,
Would (talk compensate for Arty inCrert4 4')/ 4%1 Ali
Whet such ari,objvii was in View the expoce '''o,ll,o
nt?"4l'-bd regarilea, and it: this w0.U1,1 geticl laxer'Air
YOlunreetta-treficient :Force, it would !be co
ptirch‘itteti At almost any expencc. \\Yid' fee 10
the probatile expence, ii: was impossible for il):°_,,,,t
trikite.siSy'larcutate Estimate, because he cOOlO 47,t:
exAdtly..awertain the different testy* •000 "(44
'tliattrient,Coriss. were aoceitted. But tiro °le .4.
calcui!atigtals.e was.,Ahle to make, he did not rite_c?
the sum necewary fur thin purpoNe„ would cs(if i
td0,0061." altar. This certainly: was $ ili,
sum, bist:if fit that money you -could give dlic,itt`hii.t
to crotot of near .4.30,000 men,-ind give the°. J.,..t
kind o..progressive ittiprovetnentwhichlvotdd_ i.
them
L res4lnbk the Regular Army is ••roitr as riich
Plc.-nobody:could, think the or:pence was 014#"
4ft c
tietiPt the- ;V Ohlair ill . 41ficient did nOt “r :700,
ought no; to be. incurred. But his st.ii‘yo fort.ein:
for :11e- could not 'corteeiVe that thin ri.,- tit'
"'VOW: COlnpktCly ;,sll%StVer .its purl. 41,1144 e.-riv.:..
1/.140019f tlityb which_ were allotted
,for um. a ,
txteittion of the Corps . ,aecepted tiat.:4 0
,1 f
aPdAticittlining ;hem was so litnitca.-^"Vil,!::1,1
of Aorio, tvlin d,tl nut exceed 40,000 l'itl,l% ,•,;
test were rat t(1 bi .4000. rd p y rot more thin
~4
ty Jays•in etch year, tt-o,li ha consitkted as to"