The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-16 00:00:00

OF ITALY.

Mr. S. FITZGERALD renewed the subject of this reso
lution, and said he regretted that it had been withdrawn
from the consideration of the house. It could not have inter-
fered with any negotiations on the part of the Government,
for there were none going on. The armistice had taken
place, and the peace been agreed to, without her Majesty's
Government being once consulted. (Hear, hear.) Never-
theless the discussion of the resolution might have been in-
convenient to the existing Government. The noble lord at
the head of the Government had severely arraigned the
foreign policy of the late Government, but his charges had
met with a prompt contradiction. (Hear.) It turned out
that the very course which the noble lord said the late
Government ought to have taken was that which they
had actually pursued. The discussion of the resolution
proposed must have been very damaging to the
Government. Many had expected that the policy of the
Government would be that of non-interference, at the same
time with a support of the freedom of Italy. What must
have been their surprise, and that of the whole of Europe,
when they heard the noble lord declare that he had no po-
licy at all except that chalked out by his predecessors. This
should be a caution to those who depreciated a policy in
utter ignorance of what it was. (Hear, hear.) A few nights
ago Lord J. Russell had referred to a despatch of Lord
Malmesbury, as shewing that the present and the late Go-
vernment had pursued the same policy in offering advice to
Germany. By the Federal Pact it rested with the G6rman
powers to decide whether they would make a cases belli of
an attack on the territory of a power which lay beyond the
Confederation. Lord Malmesbury had taken this view, and
had advised Germany accordingly. It was possible that
the details of the treaty of peace would have to be carried
out by a European Congress, in which this country might
take part ; but he doubted whether it would be wise in the
Government to do so, as this country had taken no part to
the war. (Hear, hear.) But it was clear from the speeches
of Lord J.lllussell, Sir C. Wood, and others, th t they anti-
cipated being called on to act as negotiators. One of these
speeches the right hon. gentleman characterised as contain-
ing language of menace which was calculated to compro-
mise this country. Probably the Government would enter
into negotiations in the same spirit ; if so, nothing would
be more calculated to disturb our peaceful relations with
other Powers. (Hear, hear.) Whatever occurred, he hoped
the Government would strictly adhere to the principle of
non-intervention, at the same time firmly asserting what
they felt to be the honour and the interests of our owncoun-
try. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—I certainly thought it quite unne-
cessary to take any notice of the speech of the noble lord
(Lord Elcho). He seemed to have reflected upon the mo-
tionof which he had given notice, and to have come to the
opinion that he had much better not make it. (A laugh.) I
quite agree with him in that opinion, and certainly it was
quite harmless for him to indulge in a sort of triumph and
jubilation when he was inreality retreating from the posi-
tion which he had taken up. (Hear, hear.) He seemed to
enjoy a sort :,of triumph in considering that any wishes
which my noble friend (Lord Palmerston) and I might have
had for freedom in Italy would be disappointed. That may
be the case ; but I am sure that I shall not be ashamed, and
I do not think my noble friend will ever be ashamed, of
suying that our wishes are in favour of freedom in any
country in which free institutions can be introduced. It is
one thing to say that you will use the power of a country—
that you will interfere with the means of a country, in order
to introduce free institutions into another country ; it is
another thing to rejoice when those free institutions pros-
per, and to lament whenever they are destrOyed. (Hear,
hear.) The hon. gentleman who spoke last has referred to
Mr. Canning. I remember that Mr. Canning spoke in this
house on the subject of the great invasion of Spain. The
Spaniards had establisned free institutions in that country ;
the French had forbid them, and were invading Spain to put
down those free institutions. „Air. Canning then declared
that the policy of this country was neutrality; at the same
time he did not hesitate tc.say that his wishes were that the
Spaniards might be successful in resisting that interference.
(Hear.) Mr. Canning did not go at all beyond the line which
a Minister must observe in thus expressing his wishes, at the
same time that he declared the policy which the Government
would follow. The right hon. gentleman has referred to the
conduct of the late Government. I am very glad that Lord
Elcho has not made it necessary for the house to discuss that
conduct. I am ready to believe that they were all along
endeavouring, to the utmost, with impartiality and with
care, to preserve a neutral position, and to prevent the evils
of war. And I remember that when there was a question
about Lord Malmesbury going .to a congress, I said that
there would be neither ability nor inclination wanting to
bring that congress to a happy termination ; when the papers
had been produced, I said that it was but fair to presume
that everything in those papers would be favourable to the
party in power, and would make out no case against their
impartiality. But if we had had to go into all the particu-
lars of their conduct, there would have been points on which
I should have said that they had not taken the view which
in my opinion was most like to lead to a satisfactory issue,
especially in the beginning of those discussions with France,
when I think much might have been done that was left un-
done. But lam glad not to have to enter into that discus-
sion now. Bat Mr. Fitzgerald thinks fit, with the very
little knowledge of the subject which he possesses, and the
little which I have thought it consistent with my duty to
disclose, to find fault with the present Government for the
course which they have pursued.. He refers to an instance
in which I was blamed for advising Prussia not to interfere,
as we thought prematurely, in the war, not to place herself
in the ranks of the belligerents. In answer to that I quoted
a despatch of Lord Malmesbury's, in which he used the
strongest terms to the same effect, telling Prussia that her
coasts would be ravaged, and that he could give her no assis-
tance. (Hear, hear.) That despatch was not only sent to our
Ministers at the German courts, but-it was also communi-
cated to the Ministers of the German courts resident here ;
so that those courts might have full information of the noble
lord's views. Ido not doubt that the advice which the late
and the present Government gave to Prussia, to consider well
and to pause before she made herself a belligerent, had an
effect in producing that moderate, and as I think wise, course
which Prussia has pursued. I believe that her refraining
from entering at once into the arena of war did tend very
greatly to circumscribe the sphere of hostilities. Had she
at once entered into the war on the ground that that war
was approaching the Mincio, it is difficult to say to what
extent the war might have been carried, or at what period
peace might have been attained. I have received a letter
this very day from Naples, in which it is said that Naples
was not disposed to enter into the war, but that if Russia
and Germany had joined in it, it was probable that public
opinion in Naples would have been so strong that the
Government would have been unable to refrain from imme-
diately taking a part in the hostilities. I believe that the
whole of Italy and the whole of Germany would have been
drawn into the war. I rejoice very much that peace is re-
stored. (Cheers.) The lon. gentleman says that it is a
question whether or not we should take any part in a con-
gress to settle the terms of the peace. That is a question of
the utmost importance—it is a question, I think, to which
every man in Europe will look with anxiety. (Hear, hear.)
I understand that the Emperors of France and Austria are
not completely agreed upon the subject. At all events, the
question is not before us in a shape in which we can pre-
sume to decidti upon it. It appears to me that the influence
of England ought to be used—if it is used at all on this
subject—to confirm the peace, to improve any treaty ofpeace,
if it is possible for us to improve it, and at all events to see
that there is nothing in our conduct which might lead to
our abandoning that neutral and impartial position for
which the hon. gentleman takes so much credit to the late
Government. For my own part, I believe that the mainte-
nance of that position is in accordance with the universal
opinion of the people of this country. (Hear, hear.) There
were abundant reas ins for our maintaining that position. I
ventured myself, in speaking to my constituents, to state
the case of both the belligerents, and to explain why I
thought that neither of them was entitled to the assistance
of this country. lam sorry to say it then seemed to me
that the Emperor of France going into Italy was not likely
to consolidate the liberties of that country, or—(the re-
mainder of the noble lord's sentence was lost, owing to the
extremely low tone in which he spoke, and there were cries
of " Speak up.") I have the same apprehensions still;
but, at the same time, it is impossible to lay down ony par-
ticular rule beforehand for our guidance in the negotia-
tions. The hon. gentleman takes great credit to himself
for what the late Government did. lam not disposed to
deny or dispute,that credit ; and certainly I can only say,
in regard to the present juncture, that we are bound—if we
are called upon, with the whole of Europe, to consider any
treaty of peace which may be made—not to participate in
any treaty of peace which is not conformable to our notions
of the honour, the digniry, and freedoin of this country.
(Cheers.) Xis with a view to the maintenance of that
dignity that we should be disposed to act. I will say no-
thing more at present on this subject. It is well that the
noble lord's motion has not come under discussion. When
our own conduct is impugned, I shall be perfectly ready
and happy to afford every explanation. (Hear.)
THE ARMY ESTIMATES.
Mr. WILLIAMS said he had given notice that he would
move to have the estimates submitted to a select committee,
but in consequence of the lateness of the session he did not
mean to press it. (Hear, hear.)
The house then wont into committee—Mr. MASSEY in
the chair.
The vote of £114,537 for warlike stores for the land and
sea service was agreed to, as were the following:--
£123,500 for fortifications.
£23,409 for civil buildings.
The vote o 4 £36,370 for barracks, after a short discussion,
was also agreed to.
On the vote of £41,067 for general °facers,
Mr. WILLIAMS complained that many men were ad-