The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-19 00:00:00

of supply of Friday last, when a large number of votes
were immediately agreed to.
On the vote of £23,000 for the salaries and expenses of
the Office of Works,
Mr. AUGUSTUS SMITH said he hoped that on this
occasion the hon. gentleman would have done something
to remove the anomalous condition in which this depart-
ment was placed, of being the only one which had the
power of engaging in a large expenditure without the
control and authority of Parliament. A revenue of some-
thing like £400,000, and the estimates authorised indepen-
dently of Parliament amounted to £90,000. It appeared to
him that there :could be no reason why they should not
give an estimate for such expenditure as well as for the
current expenses of the office. lie suggested to the house
that the vote should not be confirmed until they had laid
before them an estimate of the expenditure.
Mr. WILSON showed that the vote before the house
was merely for the salaries of the clerks and others con-
nected with the Woods and Forests, and not for the ma-
nagement of the Crown property. The subject suggested
had been already fully considered. With regard to the ex-
penditure, though it was not subject to the surveillance of
Parliament in the shape of a vote, it was subject to surveil-
lance by reason of the annual balance-sheet which the com-
missioners presented each session, such balance-sheets
showing every item of expenditure.
The vote was then agreed to, as were the remaining
votes.
SUPPLY.—THE LONDON CORPORATION BILL.
On the motion for going into Committee of Supply.
Mr. AYRTON wished to ask the noble lord at the head
of the Government a question with respect to the London
Corporation Reform Bill, as it was called, which was very
greatly objected to by many supporters of the present Go-
vernment. When the late Government quitted office, they
left in some of the departments certain draft bills, which,
happily, were not allowed to arrive quite at maturity ; but
the right hon. gentleman the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, with a zeal more like that of the Zouave,
influenced with the spirit of political plunder, appropriated
some of those bills to himself, and submitted them to the
house. Now, let it be understood that those bills were pre-
pared by her Majesty's late Government, but the noble
viscount voted want of confidence in that Oovernment, and
having no confidence in them, and not approving of their
measures, it certainly was not right that any member of his
Administration should press those bills on the attention of
the Legislature. (Hear.) It was with astonishment that he
saw the draft bills of the Government thus appropriated,
and, without consideration of the principles on which the
present Government placed them on the table of the house.
Lord PALMERSTON said that the hon. member, when
the bill came on for discussion, could state his reasons for
objecting to it, but he thought it most unreasonable and un-
fair that he should object .to the next stage of the measure
being discussed either at a night or special morning sitting.
He thought it was a new objection to a Government that
it was ready to give time to the discussion of a bill. If the
hon. and learned gentlemen could not attend on the day
named, he had no doubt that his right hon. friend the
Home Secretary would consult his convenience, and that
of other hon. members, if possible. While he was on his
legs, he would remark, with respect to the somewhat unjust
and unreasonable objections urged by the hon. member for
Lambeth, that it was him who pressed the voting of the
civil service estimates the other night. The matter was
left in the hands of the house—the hon. gentleman pressed
his motion to a division, and was in a small minority,
whereupon, not in a very good temper, he left the house,
and not in the most courteous way. If the decision had
been the other way, he (Lord Palmerston) should have sub-
mitted to it, but, as it was, the house took its own way with
the estimates. _ _ _

The conversation then dropped.
SUPPLY.
The house then went into committee, Mr. MASSEY in
the chair.
The first vote proposed was for the charges in connexion
with the public parks, but the new chairman of committees
speaks in so low a tone of voice, and runs over figures so
rapidly that it is next to impossible in nine cases out of ten
to form the slightest idea either of the amount or the pur-
pose for which it is asked.
Sir J. PAXTON objected to the large and in his opinion
uncalled for,increase in the estimates for the maintenance
of the public parks. In seven years the amount had
doubled itself, or from £63,000 to £123,000. Kew Gardens
instead of being kept to their original purpose of a botani
cal garden and museum, had been converted by Lord
Llanover and Sir W. Hooker into a gaudy flower garden,
with pleasure grounds of almost indefinite extent, at the
cost of the public, while the Crystal Palace gardens had
been specially formed for that purpose on commercial
grounds. He did not see why Kew should compete
with the Crystal Palace at the expense of the country,
and at the same time be open on Sunday, while the
Crystal Palace was shut to the public. (Hear, hear.) He
objected also to the new museum, which had been erected,
as a paltry building, like a third-rate lodging-house, quite
unworthy of such a beautiful place ; and there was an item
for a conservatory which was preposterously large, when
they knew that he had shown 10 acres of ground could be
covered with glass for £lO,OOO, while they had not altogether
three acres of ground at Kew. With respect to Hyde-park,
Lord Llanover had also made a mistake in what he called
" gardenising" it at an immense cost. It was a total mistake
to 'vulgarise parks with gaudy and tawdry flower beds.
They ought to depend entirely for their effect upon the
beautiful green grass, and fine trees, like Berkeley-square,
which was the pattern for all such people's parks and places.
He had watched all that had been said as to the opening
into St. James's-park. He should be glad to see Kensing-
ton-gardens made as beautiful as they could be, and Hyde-
park made as a
.park ought to be. As regarded Battersea-
park and Victoria. park, he could say that these parks were,
in the first instance, under the control of men who did not
know the names of six flowers. (A laugh.) He was aware
that every minister of public works was regularly beset by
the metropolitan members for every kind of boon. Although
he would not at present propose any reduction in the vote,
he would next year go into the matter into detail. In the
meantime he would be happy to give any advice ho was
capable of giving. (Hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS referred to the suggestions which
-had been made for improving thaSerpentine river, and said,
with reference to what had taken place at Kew, his hon.
friend had recommended conservatories there which he (Lord
J. Manners) approved of. With respect to Battersea and
Victoria-parks, the two gentlemen appointed there were
quite competent to perform their duties. He was stifisfied
that every gentleman filling the office which he had lately
had the honour of filling was most anxious to contribute to
the comfort and the enjoyment of the great mass of society.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said it was quite monstrous to see
the sums of money which were annually expended on the
parks of the metropolis. There was an increase in the
charge this year of £24,000. What made the Serpentine
offensive this year was, that sewers were allowed to run
into it.

Mr. FITZROY said the object of the vote was to pro-
vide for the recreation of the public. He had received a
return yvhich showed the enormous number of persons who
found enjoyment in frequenting Victoria-park, and great
praise was due to the superintendents of both Victoria and
Hyde-parks, for the way in which they devoted their
energies to the duties of their office. It was impossible
to meet the views of everybody, and if the suggestions
thrown out were attended to, in the course of a few
months the beauty of the parks would be destroyed.
As to the purification of the Serpentine, he found the
plan already prepared when he came into office, and an
estimate of £15,000 to carry on the works. He did not
agree with the plan proposed, and he shouldli tahaearaeuifo_treecr
ost-
pone its consideration for a future period. .
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off, fo uaandd
tthheant
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ialtde rb
am ud
isffit
anut he
to
get it back again. Under these circumstances he postponed
the consideration of it until he had a plan prepared. With
respect to Regent's-park, a new cricket ground would be
formed as soon as possible, and everything done to suit the
public convenience.
Mr. KINNAIRD thought his right hon. friend had not
answered the question of his hon. friend the member for
Kildare. Why should members of Parliament he deprived
of the opportunity of coming through the Park to this
house ? Two policemen were stationed opposite Buckingham
Palace to prevent that, and he should like to have an ex-
planation on the subject. With respect to the glass works
at Kew-gardens, he thought it could be done for £lO,OOO,
instead of £20,000, and he should certainly take the sense of
the committee on the subject. His hon. friend the member
for Coventry called the attention of the committee to the
fact that 40,000 geraniums were cultured in those gardens,
but that expense could not be permitted, when it was in-
tended that nothing but foreign and rare plants should be
introduced. Then there was a vote of £39,000 submitted to
them for the advantage of bathers in the Serpentine, to
which he most strongly objected, In point of fact the
labouring classes alluded to, called bathers, were the riders
of Rotten-row. (A laugh.)
Lord J. BROWNE hoped the vote for Kew-gardens
would not be acceded to, as it was wholly unnecessary.
Mr. FITZROY reminded the hoe. gentleman the mem-
ber for Perth that Kew-gardens were the most frequently
attended in the neighbourhosd of the metropolis. When
first they were opened there were only about 9,000 persons
who visited them in the course of the year, whereas during
the last year they amounted to half a million. With respect
to, the geraniums, .they were the most beautiful feature in
those gardens, and he should certainly use all his end a-
yours to promote them. With respect to the question of
the hon. member for Kildare, it was not in his power to
decide who should or should not be allowed to pass through
the parks.

Alter a few words from Sir J. PAXTON,
Alderman SALOMON S thought they should not grudge
laying out a little money to promote the enjoyment of the
thousands of the working classes who frequented Kew Gar-
dens. _ _

Lord PALMERSTON observed that if Kew Gardens
were a source of amusement to the people. they also formed
a source of great annual amusement in that house. Now,
when the public amused themselves in Kew Gardens they
returned home, and he hoped his hon. friend would allow
them to do the same, and not compel them to take a walk
through this house for the purpose of pleasing him. (A
laugh,) No one could object to a vote for such a purpose,
especially after witnessing the numbers who attended those
gardens. He would recommend those engaged in specula-
tions in gardening to go on improving them, and the attrac-
tion would be equal to Hew.
Mr. E. JAMES observed that Kew Gardens was one of
the principal places of resort for the working classes, and
there ought to be no grudging spirit in refusing the vote.
The vote was then agreed to without a division.
The next votes were a sum of £2,342 for the salaries of
the Lord Advocate and Solicitor .General of Scotland ; and
£275,000 for the expenses of the General Court of Session
in Scotland.
A sum of £6,200 was voted towards completing the ex•
penses of the Court of Justiciary in Scotland.
£620,200 towards completing the expenses of the Exche-
quer in Scotland were next voted.
A sum of £2,000 was agreed to towards completing the
charges of Sheriffs' and Stewards' Courts in Scotland.
£7,956 was agreed to towards defraying the salaries of
certain officers in the courts in Scotland who are not paid
by salaries.
A sum of £2,300 towards defraying the salary of the
Scotch Solicitor of the Crown resident in London, and other
officers, was also agreed to.
The next vote was a sum of £1,032 towards defraying
the salary of accountants in bankruptcy in Scotland, and
one of £.51,630 towards defraying law charges in Scotland,
was also agreed to.
The following votes were agreed to :
£1,210 for the salaries of certain officers in the Court of
Common Pleas in Ireland.
£10,850 to complete the salaries of certain officers in the
Court of Exchequer in Ireland.
£4,682 for salaries of officers in the Court of Bankruptcy
in Ireland.
£1,105 to complete the salaries of certain officers in the
Court of Probate in Ireland.
£4,011 to complete the salaries of the officers of the En-
cumbered Estates Court in Ireland.
£35,378, for police magistrates and police courts in
Dublin.
£31,878 for the Irish police.
The next vote was £450,776 for the Irish constabulary.
Lord DUNCAN observed that this vote was la,rzely in-
creasing,aud demanded explanation.
Lord NAAS said that the Tote had increased in contie-