The Sun.
London, England, 1832-03-08 00:00:00

THAMES- OFFICE.

Yesterday Mr. Barber, landlord of the Marquis of
Granby public-house, Queen-street, Ratcliffe, was charged
with being concerned with another man, named Molloy,
since absconded, in stealing a 101. Bank of England note
and 23 sovereigns, from Mr. Richard Rawlinson, a cow-
keeper, in the same street.

Each of the parties were accompanied by a host of
friends. Rawlinson was standing by his own gate on
Wednesday night last, when a person named Hatterill, a
carman, with whom he had long been acquainted, asked
him for the loan of 101. He said he would lend it to him,
and they proceeded to Barber's house, opposite, where
they met with Molloy, a friend of both parties. They
called for some brandy and water, and he pulled from his
purse a 101. note, to give to Hatterill, who said he would
rather have ten sovereigns. He then put the note in
his mouth, and took from his purse 45 sovereigns, which
he laid on the counter, close to the bar, where the prisoner
was standing. Molloy then snatched the note from his
mouth, and, under pretence of drying it over the lamp,
ran away with it. He was counting out the sovereigns,
of 23 of them, which he refused to give back. Soon atter
this, his (Rawlinson's) wife came in, and would not let
him lend Hatterill any money, and they left the house to-
gether. He had not seen Molloy since. It was not till
Friday morning that he applied for the warrant against the
parties who robbed him.
Hatterill gave similar evidence.
Barber in defence solemnly declared that the charge was
false, and called Mrs. Moss, an elderly woman, who said
she saw the whole transaction. Rawlinson put the note
in his mouth and chewed it, and Molloy observed that it
must be a flash note or he would not eat his money. He
then got it away from him, and after drying it, returned
it to Rawlinson. There were only seven sovereigns placed
on the counter, which Barber, at Rawlinson's request, put
one by one into the purse, and the prosecutor then twisted
it up and put it in his coat pocket.
John Moore, a labouring win, who happened to call for
a pint of porter at the time, stated, that he saw Barber
putting :the sovereigns in the purse. There were only
seven o❑ the counter, and the prisoner, while Rawlinson
was twisting his purse, said, " That's right, my boy, take
good care of them."
Mrs. Rawlinson, who came in towards the latter part
of the transaction, in, her evidence exonerated the prisoner,
for she said that when she entered the house Barber re-
quested her to take care of the sovereigns, but she told
him that her husband would not let her touch his money,
and he then put seven sovereigns in the purse, which her
husband placed in his pocket. She would not allow her
husband to lend the 10/. because he was drunk, though
he had been in the habit of lending money to Hatteril before.
Rawlinson and Hatterill persisted in their statement,
that Barber and Molloy stole the sovereigns and note,
while the prisoner and his witnesses declared to the
contrary.
Mr. BALLANTINE said the case was the most extraordi-
nary one he had ever heard of; one side must be greatly
mistaken, but he was disposed to think, from the fact of
Molloy having kept out of the way, that the note, if not
the sovereigns, was stolen. He would allow the case to
stand over for a week, and the officers were directed to
take Molloy wherever they could find him. Barber made
the required promise, and was discharged.
Before the prisoner could have reached the street, Raw-
linson preferred another charge against him of forging a
bill of exchange, drawn by Barber, and purporting to
have been accepted by one Moss. Rawlinson said he had
received the bill of Barber six weeks ago, and when it be-
came due Mr. Mos., whose name was signed on it as
the acceptor, declared it was a forgery. The bill was
for 101.

Mr. BALLANTINE looked at the bill, and eventually or-
dered all the parties to appear before him this day, when
the charge will be fully investigated.

SUICIDE OF HENRY BOUVERIE, ESQ.-
On Tuesday an inquest was held, at Sinnnond's Hotel, Conduit_
street, on the body of H. J. Bouverie, Esq., aged 311. Thomas
Ramsay, servant for two years to the deceased, said, that about
nine on Monday morning, his master appeared as usual; about
eleven he left him dressing. Soon after, the chambermaid
heard an unusual noise in the and he went up stairs, On
entering the chamber, the deceased, who had on all his clothes
except his coat and waistcoat, was lying on the bed quite dead,
with a deep gash across the throat, from which the blood was
profusely flowing. It appeared that he had been unusually de-
jected for some time past, in consequence of the death of his
mother. The Marquis of Queensberry said that at the be-
ginning of last month he observed a great depression in t'44. spi.
tits of the deceased; and his appearance wz,s such On Sunday
last, that he (the Marquis) renLaked to some one that he should
not be surpri..:cd i; the deceased Committed some rash act. The
on hearing this evidence, returned a verdict—" Temporary
derangement."

AMUSING ANECDOTE.-4 certain man came
to Copley (father of 1.,;::d -.t.,yndliurst, and had himself, his
wife, and seven children, all included in a family piece :—" It
wants but one thing," said he, " and that is the portrait of my
first wife, for this one is my second." " But," said the artist,
" she is dead, you know, Sir : what can Ide ?, She is only to
be admitted as an angel." " Oh,
no! not at all," answered the
other ; " she mustcome in as a woman—no, angels feT
The portrait was added, but some time elapsed bcfc,,re the person
came back when he returned, he had a stranger lady on his
arm. " I must have another cast of your hand, Copley," he
said; " an accident befel my second wife; this lady is my
third, and she is come to have her likeness included in the
family picture." The painter complied; the likeness was in-
troduced; and the husband looked with a glance of satisfaction
on his three spouses : not so the lady ;
she re7.onstrated ; never
was such a thing heard of; out !see predecessors must go. The
artist painted them out accordingly ; and had to bring an
action at law to obtain payment for the portraits which he had
obliterated.--41/km Cunningham's Lives of the Painfra.

Mr. BYNG brought in a Bill to amend several Acts for
the improving and extending of East Smithfield. He
also presented a petition in favour of the Church-rate
Equalization Bill. The Hon. Member then moved the
second reading of that Bill.
Mr. JOHN WOOD said this was not a Bill which
could be allowed to pass without some observations.
He for one was prepared to resist the second reading
of it. It would be in the recollection of Hon. Members
that the Commissioners for building new churches had
obtained an Act which enabled them to inflict new churches
upon parishes, against the wishes of the inhabitants—this
was something of the same sort, for it would have no
other effect than to inflict a tax upon the parish of St.
Mary, Islington, which the House had formerly declared
the country should be free from. He was also told that
it was decidedly against the wishes of a great majority of
the rate-payers. He would put it to the Hon. Gentleman
whether it would not be better to allow some days to
pass before pressing on this Bill.
Mr. Alderman WOOD could confirm the statement
made by the Hon. Member for Preston, that there was a
large majority of the inhabitants of that parish against the
measure. He thought a postponement of the second read-
ing would be beneficial.
Colonel EVANS concurred in the wish for a postpone-
ment of the consideration of the Bill.
Mr. BYNG said the principle of the Bill was not to put
additional taxes upon the parish, but merely to equalize the
payments throughout the whole of the parish. There was,
as the Hon. Gentleman said, a select vestry in the parish,
but it was not one of those odious select vestries that hid
been so much complained of—he believed there had been
no complaints against this vestry.
The Bill was then read a second time.
On the motion that it be committed,
Mr. JOHN WOOD said that he would take the sense
of the House upon the subject. He repeated his former
statement that the Bill went to put a tax on the parish
of St. Mary, Islington, from which the rest of the country
was freed ; it was also against a recent decision of the
Court of King's Bench, in regard to another parish.
Mr. BYNG asked the Hon. Gentleman whether he bad
read the Bill ?
Mr. WOOD said, no—(A laugh)—but he had read an
extract from it. He would not at present divide the House
upon this subject, but he retained to himself a liberty to
object to the third reading.
Mr. HUME was aware that a great many petitions
against the Bill were in preparation, but he thought there
would be plenty of time while the Bill was in Committee
to remove the objectionable clauses.
The Bill was then ordered to be committed.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the mechanics
and citizens of the metropolis, in favour of the Gravesend
Pier Bill.
Alderman WOOD moved for the returns of the sums of
money paid as drawback to the distillers of malt, dis-
tinguishing the amount paid to each portion of the kingdom ;
The worthy Alderman then presented a petition from the
parish of Clerkenwell in favour of the Factories' Bill.
He understood that the subject was to be referred to a Com-
mittee up stairs, but he hoped no material alteration
would be made in it.
Mr. HUME bad received several letters from various
places, complaining that be was about to oppose the Bill,
because be was in favour of its being referred to a Commit-
tee up stairs. This was a mistake—he was most anxious
that such changes should be made as would be for the be-
nefit of children, but he had always thought it to be one
of the worst plans to put more restrictions upon the manu-
facturing interest than were absolutely required.
Mr. GREEN presented several petitions to the same
effect.

Mr. BRISCOE was very much against the House in-
years as from ten to twelve. In his opinion the casts were
very materially different.
Mr. JAMES found that at Carlisle the manufacturers
objected to the Bill. No doubt it was proper that
children should be protected from too long confinement in
a noxious atmosphere, but it was the duty of the parents to
prevent it, for he understood that no one was employed
but by their leave. In legislating upon the subject he
thought it necessary to take care that ihe parties were not
made worse than they were before. If the chil-
dren did not work so long, their wages would be
lowered, and, of course, their comforts in another way
interfered with. It should also be taken into considera-
tion the great boon we would confer upon foreign countries,
by taking away a sixth from the labour of our frif2.
machinery.
Mr. GREEN presented a petition from the inhabitants
of Kirby Lunsdale, in favour of the Cotton Factories La-
bour Bill.
Mr. COOPER presented four petitions from various
parishes, in the counties of Sligo, Westmeath, and
Leitrim, against the proposed plan of his Majesty's Go-
vernment for educating the children of the lower classes
in Ireland. After the ample discussion which had take❑
place last night upon this subject he would merely say,
that the petitions were signed by Roman Catholics
as well as Protestants. He begged to support the prayer
of the petitioners.
After a few words from Colonel PaacEvaL_ in support
of the petitions, they were ordered to be printed.
Mr. ROBINSON presented a petition from the Wor-
cester Political Union, against the Bill now before the
House for promoting the science of anatomy. The peti-
tion stated that the Bill would have the effect of offending
the lower classes of the community, and would tend to
weaken the effect of the ceremony of burial.
The petition was ordered to be printed.
The HON. MEMBEit next presented four petitions fwm
as many towns in Newfoundland, prayin for a
local legislative Government. He was happy to state that
his Majesty had been graciously pleased to intimate his
intention to confer on that island the same privileges

which were enjoyed by the other British North American
Colonies, and he begged to tender his gratitude to his

ijesty's Ministers for- that Wog, which would have the
effect of promoting the p.aaperity of the colony, would
give great satisfaction to the inhabitants when it wit.,
known thixe, and would render it unnecessary for hiiA to
trouble the House upon this subject on any ftitcai occasion.
Mr. HTJME presented a petition from another town in
Newfoundland upon the same sul..ject.
LABOUR IN FACTORIES BILL.

Mr. S. MACKENZIE rase to present tie peti.•
thins from the master cotton, flax, at;at:i hnen-manufac-
turers of Glasgow, against the Bill for regulating the
hours of labour in factories. The petitioners were of peat
wealth, and employed a number of persons.. They believed
the Bill, as applied to them, to be wholly unnecessary and
uncalled for ; they stated tkat the children in their em-
ploy were not under fourteen years of age—that their hours
of work were moderate, and that any reductions in those
hours would materially lessen the price of labour. They
complained of the exaggerated statemvita which
had been made of cruelty .o over-working
children, and declared that the children employed on
machines were as clothed, fed, and taken care of,
as any wilt were employed in hand-loom weaving. The
Hon. Member, in supporting the prayer of the petitions,
said that he did not wish to, 1-t-tipute any motives
to the Hon. Member introduced the Bill (Mr.
Sadler) but those of a benevolent character, but III,: roust
say tit:A the exaggerated statements which 1-,,n4 been made
i had done a great deal of harm, not „wily in this country,
but in Scotland.
Mr. DIXON coincided fully in the statement of the
Hon. Member respecting the respectnhilitx of the peti-
tioners; but he regretted that tl,ey should be found to
advocate excessive !Onr by children. From the cha-
racters of tho petitioners, he little expected such
statementa from them as were contained in the peti-
tions, and he took it as a compliment tr,s Liinself
that they did net entrust him with the :I•,•et;aions.
Mr. FERGUSON observetl that one of the peti-
tions asserted that zlisdren, without injury to
themselves, work twelve hours ; day.
He entreated Hon. Members to call on arty medical man
in the kingdom, and ask him if it were possible for a
child to work twelve hours a daty without ruining its con.
stitution.—(Hear.) The restriction of the Bill of the
Hon. Member was ten hours a day.
Mr. HUNT, in reference to an expression in one of
the petitions, that the children were as well clothed and

Mr. SADLER presented a petition from the operative
cotton spinners of Glasgow and its vicinity, in favour of
the Cotton Factories Labour Regulation Bill. The pe-
titioners complained deeply of the ling hours they
were compelled to work, that they were in conse-
quence the ♦ictims of an early disease, which often
occasioned a premature death ; not only were these
the effects of the protracted labour upon their health,
but their morals suffered in irn equal degree. It bad been
found that out of a body of 1,500 spinners, not more
than eight or ten survived fifty years,—a fact, however
appalling, he was prepared to support elsewhere. They
complained of that lengthened want malt a reg•irded
themselves, but more particularly as regarded children of
tender years, and they showed that from the want of early
education and attention to their morals, a great deal
of crime resulted. The petition is a few days
had been signed by many thousands of persons.—
He conceived that this body of witnesses was not to be
slighted by the House, and that being competent to form a
just estimate of the nature and extent of the grievances,
their statements were not to be considered exaggerated.
The Honourable Member also presented petiticns on the
same subject, from the Clergymen of Huddersfield, from
certain Sunday Schoolmasters in a place in Yorkshire,
from the workers in Woollen Manufactures in Port Ee iing-
ton, sear Glasgow, from the town of Beverley, from Roch-
dale, from Ecclesfield, from Walebam, from Notting-
ham, from Horsham, from the county of Renfrew, from
Tottenham, from Dartford, from Marylebone, from
Oldham, from Uxbridge, from Dublin, and from Dun..
dee, all in favour of the Factories Bill.
Mr. STRICKLAND could not, from the mass of cor-
respondence he had received, state precisely the number of
those petitions he had been requested to suppot t. He would
take that opportunity to make one remark, as there
appeared to him to exist a mistake relative to the
manner in which this measure was supported. It was
supposed that the labourers were classed on the
one side and the employers on the other, and that the one
supported and the other opposed the measure.—(Hear,
hear.) This, however, was nut the case. There
wet a large proportion of the most respectable
and wealthy of the mill-owners themselves, who were in
favour of the legislative restrictions for the hours of

infautiste labour. Some of them had stated this to

himself. There was a variety of instances in which
the employment of children was carried to excess, and

if cruelty at all existed there was sufficient ground for in.
terference. He earnestly hoped that this question would
receive such a calm and serious consideration of the House
as would lead to a safe legislation, and produce satisfaction
to all the parties concerned.

Mr. SADLER then presented a petition from Man.
cheater, signed by 14,000, and one from Leeds, signed by
18,000, in favour of the Factories Bill.

On the motion of Mr. R. GORDON, the Lunatic Asylum
Bill was read a third time and passed.
The Marquis of CHANDOS presented a petition from
the duties on sugar, He would not detain the House by

any lengthened statement, as he would have an opportu-
nity of stating his opinions more fully when the Noble
Lo:d opposite brought forward his resolutions upon thin

subject, but be could not allow even that opportunity to
pass without pressing upon the House the extreme hard-
ship of compelling a large body to succumb to a tax which
was at all times oppressive, but at the present time espe-
cially threatened to be destructive of all their hopes, if not
of their existence.

Lord ALTHORP moved that the House resolve itself
into a Committee of Supply.
FRENCH EXPEDITION TO ITALY.

Sir R. VYVYAN rose to ask a question of the Noble
Lord opposite on a subject of no small importance—he
meant the arrival of the French expedition at Anemia.
He wished to knew whether the Papal Government con-
sented to receive the French troops. It was a misfortune.
that, as one of the consequences of the Revolution of IS3O
in France, the inhabitants of Modena and the north
of Italy have been made its victims ; he sincerely regretted
the manner in which they had been led by false accounts,
and hopes held out, to rise into rebellion against their
lawful Sovereigns; while those States and persens
which wets connected with them—that lured them
by false enticements—had not the courage to come forward
and save them from the s,caffold. He most sincerely pitied
the condition in which many of the states subject to the
Duke of Modena had been placed, and he should
like to sae greater liberty given to them. He
thought the Government of the Duke of Mo-
dena was one which no one professing the
principles of the Constitution of this country could sup.
port. The conduct of those who had led on ti e subjects
of the Pope, and those of the Duke ot Moden3, was such
that it was impossible for him to find words sufficiently
to express his indignation of it. If the detachment that
had been sent by the French Government to the Papal
dominions was not sufficient to effect an entire revolu-
tion in those states, one consequence resulting from it
would he, that it would give fresh stimulus to those
who had already received their standard against the
Pope. Civil war would he again engendered in that
country, and Italy would have to lament that
France heal destroyed her liberty, and thrown her
into desolation. His great complaint was, it there had
been an agreement between the great Powers of Europe
with regard to the occupation of any part of the Papal
territories by the. French troops, that Great Britain
had na.t sent a squadron with that of the French.—
(Hear, hear.) The questions he wished to put to the
Noble Lord were, find, whether upon receiving in-
timation that this squadron ware in preparation,
any conamunication had taken place between the Govern-
meats of the two countries? and whether the sailing of the
squadron had taken place with the sanction of his Britannic
Majesty? He wished also to know, whether the Sove-
reign of the Papal States had acceded to this plan of
landing a squadron of French troops in his dominions?
Vita:9,4ot PALMERSTON—With respect to the gene-
ral facts in which the Hon. Baronet's questions are
founded—namely, that corps of Austrian and French
troops have appeared in the Papal territories—l believe
that no doubt exists, and, therefore, it is not necessary
that I should touch upon these /acts. With resp-et to the
questions put by the Itra. Baronet, I am sure the House
will understand and give me credit for my motives when I
state that I do. not think it consistent with my public
duty to make any statement at this period with regard to
what might have passed between this Government and
that of Franco with respect to the expedition to Italy,
,nd still les* with respect to anything which mint
have passed between the French Government, and
the G,oveminent of the Papal States. This. is not
the proper time to enter into any discussion, on the line
of policy adopt ad 4 the French, Government ;
but it appears to me that the chief accusation which
the Hon, .Uaronet makes against tote French Government
is that it has not sufficiently interfered, inasmuch as he
considers it ought to !aave given to the people of ano, her
country institutio:as, in his opinion, more congenial to
their welfara. With Teepee', to the Government of Eng-
land, the charge against us is of a similar description.
The Hon Baronet seems to say that the English Govern-
ment ought to have sent an English Beet to co-operate
with the French expedition sent to Italy. I am not now
going to discuss those accusations, but 1 wish to point the
attention of the House to the Hon. Baronet's opinions, as
it may be useful for future purposes.—(Hear, hear.) I
repeat that it would not be consistent with my duty to
give any further answer to the Hon. Baronet's questions;
but it might be satisfactory that I N 1191114 state that; so for

1
as hie Majesty's Government is informed, I see no reason'
to apprehend that the cireums'ances which led to the ad-
vance of the Austrian and French troops into the Papal;
territories, may not be adjusted without any interruption'
of the peace of Europe.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL—When my Noble Friend dis-
tinctly states that his public duty prevents him from an-
swering the questions put by my Hon. Friend near me,
am very unwilling to press for those premature declara-
tions, but, in the present state of our information, I think
it is impossible for us to view the proceedings taken on the
part of the French Government—l will not say without
suspicion, but certainly without very crreat anxiety and
apprehension. I do not prefer any chargeb against the
French Government, because I have no materials on which
I could found any charge, and because, although I would
never consent to sacrifice the honour or the permanent in-
terest of this country to maintain a good understanding
with the French Government, yet my Noble Friend him-
self cannot have a more sincere desire than I have that that
good understanding should not be interrupted.—(Cheers.)
But, entertaining this feeling, I do not think it right that
we should he withheld from doing our duty as Members of
the British House of Commons by any fear of offending
the French Government.—(Hear, hear.) In the obser-
vations which I am about to make, I beg to state dis-
tinctly that I do not take part with the French or the
Austrian Governments ; but if it appears, according
to the statements made, that a French corps, with-
out any intimation having been made to other
Governments, has taken forcible possession of a
part of the Papal territories, I do think that
a matter of the gravest and most fearful import•
ante, considered not only as to its immediate and proba-
ble consequences, but as to the precedent which it affords,
if the fact cannot be satisfactorily explained. If it shall
appear too that this act of the French Government was
only intended to conciliate a party in France anxious fur
the delusions of military glory, all my apprehensions, as to
the danger of the precedent, will be more strongly con-
firmed.—(Hear, bear.) In the lac year the French Go-
vernment sent a large army into Belgium without having
previously obtained the consent of the Allies. France has
also retained possession of a large territory on the coast of
the Mediterranean. French troops are also occupying a
part of Greece, and I do not say that this occupation would
afford any ground for observation if it stood alone ; and,
lastly, we see a detachment of French troops now taking
possession of the Papal territory--(Hear, hear.) Ido
not say that these acts of interference are not separately
justifiable; but when we see a continuance and combina-
tion of these acts—of acts done without the union of the
ocher allied Powers—l say it gives me great apprehensions as
to the maintenance of peace, and of that balance of power
on which the permanent tranquillity of Europe so much
depends.—(Cheers from the Opposition side.) I refrain
from saying more, because my Noble Friend has stated
that the time has not yet come for the discussion of those
topics. Balancing the inconvenience of putting some
questions on this subject against the advantage, I own I
do see winch greater advantage isa putting the questions
than in letting it be supposed that such a subject has been
passed by in total apathy by the British Houses ,of Com-
mons —(Hear, hear.)
Sir RICHARD VYVYAN explained. He had par,

cularly guarded himself, as he thought, against identifying
the Government of France with that faction which his
Right Hon. Friend (Sir Robert Peel) had alluded to, and
to pamper which, he feared, much had been done by the
French Government. His observations were directed
against that faction which had sent its agents to Modena,
and bad lured on the Poles to destruction, and act against
the French Government.
Lord PALMERSTON was exceeding glad to hear the
Hon. Baronet's explanation; and that his observations
were not directed to the Government of France, but to
the Propaganda faction. He must be allowed, however,
to make an observation or two on what had just fallen
arum his Right Hon. Friend (Sir Robert Peel), who had
stated that he felt a great anxiety, and no doubt a very
justitiable anxiety, with regard to the maintenance of the
peace of Europe, as affected by the proceedings of the
French Government. His Right Hon. Friend had
referred to the French expeditions to Belgium, Greece, and
Algiers, as affording ground for apprehension. Now,
with regard to the irst of these expeditions—the entrance
of the French troops into Belgium—it was due to the
Government of France to state, that though the advance of
the French troops took place without previous commu-
nication, yet that expedition was in perfect accordance
with the spirit in which France and her Allies had
previously acted—it had been immediately adopted by the
Allies—and he (Lord P.) was satisfied that it had
been mainly instrumental in preserving the peace of
Europe. He might further add that on that occasion the
French Government acted with perfect good faith, and
vacated the country as soon as the object for which her
France in concurrence with her Allies ; and the continu-
ance of the French troops in Greece was entirely con-
sistent with the views and wishes of the other Powers.
As to the expedition to Algiers, the Government of this
country, he believed, received assurances which they con-
ceived were satisfactory at thetime the expedition took place.
Sir R. PEEL said it was not very easy to answer such
statements as that just made by his Noble Friend, with-
out some previous consideration. With Inard to the
French expedition to Algiers, however, he believed he I
might draw upon his recollection to state that the assurances
then made by France were, that, in the event of the expe-
dition proving successful, she would seek to derive no
benefit from that succes., but should call in the other
Powers to determine upon what permanent footing the
state of Algiers should be placed. The understanding,
no doubt, might have been satisfactory; but the ques-
tion was, whether it had been fulfilled ?—(Hear, hear.)
With respect to Greece, he bad already distinctly
stated that it would be impossible, from that single
case, to found any suspicion against France ; yet still
the occupation of Greece, and the retentio❑ of a strong
post in the Mediterranean, were examples which no one
could say might not be dangerous if followed in other
places, and he owned they afforded additional reason, in
his mind, for viewing with some degree of jealousy the de-
scent now made on the Papal territory. With respect to
Belgium, be could not agree with his Noble Friend that
the evil had terminated when the French troops evacua-
ted that country. The evil was in the example of a great
Power occupyiug part of an independent State without
being able to assign satisfactory reason, nor having pre-
viously communicated with her Allies.—(Hear.)
The discussion was then dropped.
POSTAGE OF LETTERS TO THE SUBURBS.

Mr. CROKER wished to ask a question respecting a
Bill which had lately passed through the House, pur-
pirting to relate to the Irish Post-office, but really rela-
ting, he believed, as much to the Post-office in England.
He wished to draw the attention of the House to the
Postage Tax which vas levied upon the euburbs of this
great metropolis, which were looked upon as forming such
considerable towns in themselves, that it was thought ne-
cessary to give them Representatives. According to the
present law, places in the neighbourhood of all other post
towns received their letters on the pepAient of an addi-
tional penny; but because there were peculiar facilities
for the distribution of letters t, the suburbs of Lordop at
a cheaper rate, the letters to thaw suburbs were taxed

two-pence additional. That was one pecoy more than the
additional postage chargad upon letters to a... suburbs of
Liverpool or any other post town, though there were not
the same facilities for delivering letters to those places as
to the suburbs of London, which bad the advantage of the
two-penny post-office. But that was not all—lnc although
the suburbs of London paid twice as much as any othor
suburbs for that accommodation, yet they received their
letters many !Ours later. That was is inconvenience to
which he thought there could be no necettetw to subject
them, for, if letters could be delivered at Hy:lt-park
Corner at nine o'clock, assuredly they could be delivereii
half an hour later at a furlong's distance frco Hyde-park
rorner. He complained that Chelsea, Kensington, and
other parts of the metropolis in their neighbourhood, ,dad
not those advantages from the two-penny post delivery,
which were enjoyed by the northern parts of the town.
Mr. SPRING RICE said there were none of these
objections which could not be obviated by Post Office
Regulations; and the Right Honourable Gentleman had
only done justice to that departnicut in saying, that there I
existed every disposition to promote any accommodation
which the public could reatscatably desire. 'Ch.ere was no
person who took the trouble to iciorm himself of t'- de-
lays comoquent upon a double sorting of the letters, who .
must not lac ready to admit that it would he impossible to
assimilate the Two-penny Post Regulations of he metro-
polis to the practice of Penny-posts in the neighbour hoed
of provincial towns. The figure of the metropolis had
been under consideration, with a view to accommodate
the regulations of the Post Office to its particular fnzin ;
but, for the present, the course which had been adopted
appeared to be the only practicable one. The arrange-
ment to which the recent regulations gave rise had cost
the country 2.5,000/., and further expense for this object,
unless the result would be immediately beneficial, would
probably not meet the general
,sanction of the House. But
he could assure the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite
that the subject had engaged the most serious attention of
his Majesty's Government, and that all that was practica-
ble should he effected with the utmost convenient speed.

POLICE.
Sir R. PEEL perceived in the Speech delivered from

the Throne at the opening of the present Session a recom•
mendation from his Majesty to that House, in conse-
quence of the then recent commotions at Bristol, that that
House should take into its most serious consideration the
expediency of assimilating the municipal police of the
great provincial towns to the establishment which existed
within the metropolis. It would be of the utmost im-
portance that the police of the great manufacturing towns
should in every respect be assimilated to the metropolitan
establishment, and it therefore was with much pleasure
that he perceived that recommendation. He confessed,
however, that it did occasion him no small surprise that
three months should have elapsed—namely, from the 6th of
December to the present time—without any commence-
ment having been made in that important measure ; but
he should not then say anything more upon the subject,
excepting this—that it behoved the King's Government
to bear in mind that it would require their best efforts ;
but if they applied their energies seriously and zealously to
the business of establishing such a police, he had no doubt
that the undertaking would be successful—that is, pro-
vided they used their own authority, and admitted of no
interference. If they once allowed local authorities to
meddle with them, they might rest assured that they
would be altogether overpowered by local interests. He
wished to know from the Noble Lord opposite, if he had
made up his mind to propose any measure on the subject
to the House?
Lord ALTHORP said that the subject had been under
the consideration of his Majesty's Government, but that no
plan had yet been sufficiently matured to lay before the
House. - _

Sir C. WETHERELL, though of course he could know
nothing on the subject, had yet serious doubts as to whe-
ther or not any steps had been taken, but he had heard that
the King's Attorney-General had been instructed to pro-
secute the Magistrates of Bristol. Those Magistrates were,
of course, happy in availing themselves of that occasion to
bring forward their defence—it was a proceeding which
could not but prove advantageous to them, though, per-
haps, not equally so to a Government which, degrading
itself in subjugation to a miserable popular clamour, had
resolved upon their prosecution.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL denounced as unwar-
rantable the language applied to his Majesty's Govern-
ment; it was not degrading to them, and it was not in
subjugation to any popular clamour that they had resolved
upon the prosecution of Magistrates who had been sup-
posed to be guilty of a neglect of duty. The accusation
against those Magistrates was one which the Government
had fully and seriously considered, and after that conside-
ration, they found it to be their painful, but most bounden
duty, to institute the prosecution. It was only because
that prosecution was still pending that be felt it to be his
duty to refrain from entering into a vindication of the
grounds upon which it was set on foot.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. R. A. DUNDAS approved of the proposed plan of
giving to provincial towns the benefit of such a system of
police as that which existed in the metropolis ; and he
should support any gener4l measure for that purpose.
SUGAR DUTIES.

The House having resolved itself into a Committee of
Ways and Means,
Lord ALTHORP rose for the purpose of moving that
ilia' several duties on sugar and molasses imported into this
country, and hitherto payable under an Act of the Ist of the
present King, and the bounties thereon, be further continued
till the 10th of October. In thus proposing this continu-
atio❑ of the duties for the space of six months longer, he
begged to assure the House that he was perfectly aware
of the distress under which the West India interest at the
present moment laboured, and he therefore much regretted
that it was not in his power to propose a reduction or
alteration of the duties. Were he to attempt any thing
of the aort, it could only be a small reduction, and that
would be of no niat.erial service; and a large reduction the
present condition of the revenue altogether forbade. He was
not, however, prepared to say that no relief could be
afforded by any other means. It was not to he expected that
at that moment he should bring forward any plan that his
Majesty's Government might have prepared, especially if the
character of that plan did not admit of its being carried
into immediate effect, and no plan of that nature ought to
be propounded unl-ss with a certainty of success. It was
hla intention to propose such a fiscal measure in the
course of the present Session of Parliament, as, though it
would not go to the length of a large reduction of the sugar
duties, would yet go very far towards that relief which the
colonies so much needed. In propoain; any such measure
to the House, he should feel bound to recollect the pledge
given last Seesion—that it was the intention of Govern-
ment, in proposing any measure of relief, to distinguish
between those colonies which had willingly adopted the
regulations so warmly urged by the House and the coun-
try, and those other colonies which had refused to adopt
any such regulations. By that pledge he intended to
abide; but he thought it would be only fair to afford

Crown eoloniea had adopted as a matter of course.
The Marquis of CHA;;DOS contended that a reduc-
tion of duty would increase consumption, and thereby aug-
ment the revenue. It was his opinion, that if the same
policy which had been pursued for so many year:, were
persevered in much longer, we should lose those colonies,
and the power and wealth which they imparted to us
would be transferred to other states. As the Noble Lord
had not held but any prospect of a reduction of duties, he
should move as an amendment, that all brown Muscovado
and clayed sugars coming from America or the Mauritius
b-chlrged with 20s. duty per hundred-weight, being 4s.
le-a than tt e sum proposed by the Noble Lord.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS seconded the amendment, and ob-
served that in the half year after the last reduction of du'y,
the increased consumption amounted to 210,000 cwt. with
an increased revenue of 10G,G0t)i. Similar reductions
would, he contended, be productive of smilar results.
Lord SiaIDON—It was with the greatest regret that
he felt called on to give his vote against the Governinect
on this occasion ; for be had a sincere desire to have
avoided it, especially as be dial not look on the reduction
of this duty as the must desirable mode of proceeding ;
but when he found that the West Indiainteresta were driven
from post to pillar—when he found that they were put off
year after near—he felt that something must be done; and
ibis reduction appeared to be the most feaaible thing that
the preeent circumstances would allow. Some observa-
tions had been utade on the resolutions that had been pro-
posed in the Commitieee up stairs; and as be had been the
mover of one ef them, perhaps be might be allowed to say
a few words. In the first place, ie wk.; his belief that a
reduction in the duty would not make a czrreaponding
reduction in the revenue ; because, when the artica be-
came cheaper, the consumption would certainly be in-
creased : and this was se him a strong proof that any
thing that led to an increased corrs:,:mption would be a be-
nefit—to the consumer at least ; and if t.1...-2^.ources of sup-
ply should happen to be checked by the interference of
treaties, or otherwise, which appeared likely to be the case,
a benefit would also be conferred op the grower ; so that
the general beneficial effect would be diyideal between these
two parties : and as in the present state of the ~.:,lorries
the smallest benefit must be most gratefully accepted, and
as it Wai most important to show in that fiouee a lively
concern ited solicitude for those interests which it bad
once been the glory of this country to protect and up.
hold, he thought that the,/ were bound to come to the re-
solution that a reduction of the kiil;:io ought to take place.
Lir. HUME—No one was less disposed allow the
colonies to a source of expense to this country the .; he
was, but still be thought they were bound to afford relief
to them under their pres„ant distressed circumstances, par-
tic...larly when they could at elei.!.tme time afford relief to
the .consumers in this country. He for many years
been of opinion, that the pledge given by the iaritials Par-
lianeent at the commencement of the war, that the increasz
of duties should ,end with that ww, had never been re.
deemed; and he had, therefore, on every inva-
riably advocated the reduct,ion
.of the eugar dutiea ; and
he thought, after the Committee h,;d come to a resointion
thi.t ,t.;:te only means of preserving the eoise.'v4 fjo,rn ruin
was by a ;diction of those duties, the House tev.' the
more imperativeiy tio, nd to afford that assistance. Indeed,
he thought the whole ettret,:rl the policy practised towards
theY;eat India colonies was to redtig.;',hat confidence which
ought to be placed in capital and property, ;•.t the same
time, he did not tinppae that this effect had been intende,il
the paecent *Government. gr., thought they meant to do
good, tw.alloi,a4 by evil.; but the con,trary had unfortu-
nately Fcgred to ,he th,e
.case, and great mazr4.,.:x of pro-
perty had ensued, ;t vas tiff this reason that he thought
that Parliament was bound to endeavour to stay the evil,
,and to afford the best relief in its power. 49 strongly was
opinion, that he thought that even t;co.:;,gh the
Exchequer alt.;-I€l suffer, the Government was hound to
consider most serimialy whether it was not wise to grant
this relief. For these reaanio, he should vote for the
amendment of the Noble Marquis.
Mr. C. ,FEV.OUSSON—He was so setisLed ;hat on
the vote of that night would depend the impression
,on tb,e. West India colonies, a; ;:o whether this country was .
prepared to extend relief to those.vialuable possessions, or
whether it wr.x resolved to abandon .her..; to other
Powers, that he.couid ;,-..0t in his conscience do other then
vote for the atnendmera of the Noble Marquis. He •
agreed also with the Hon. Memb.-ez for Middlesex, that
'bey were got 10 „iook for a diminution the revenue
equal to the reduction of the duty.; for it had never hap-
pened yet that in an article of general consumption a
.reduction of duty bad not led to a conaiderable increase in
its consumption ; so that, by extending th;;li relief to tle

West Indies, they would be also affording a benefit to the
consumer. He, therefore, thought that the Noble Lord
ought not to look for so great a defalcation as that which
he seemed to expect; and, at all events, he (Mr. C. Fer-
gusson) was prepared to go the length of the Hon. Mem-
ber for Middlesex, and would risk the defalcation for the
sake of showing to the West India colonies that if it was
possible to save them from ruin, this country would
not be wanting in its efforts for that purpose, or give
tokens of its being lost to every feeling in their behalf.
He was one of those who thought that the colonies of
this country were one of the greatest sources of its
strength ; and he never would, in accordance with the
theories of political economists, concur in any resolution,
or agree in any law, that should go the detriment, or
towards the destruction, of our colonial interests, for the
purpose of forwarding other interests which it was sup-
posed were contrary to the former, but which he for
his part believed to be perfectly compatible the one with
the other. He thought it a pity, however, that the Noble
Lord, in his amendment, had omitted to include the East
India sugars ; for he thought that the two colonies ought
to be placed on precisely the lame footing.
Sir C. WETHERELL supported the amendment ;
and had so much of the conservative about him, that he
would never consent to the destruction of the colonies,
though that seemed to be the favourite policy of the pre-
sent Government.
Mr. WARBURTON_That principle which should
combine the interests of the consumer with those of the
planter was the only one on which they could afford relief
to the colonies ; for anything that should involve new
taxation on this country was, in his opinion, wholly in-
admissible. It, therefore, seemed to him that they ought
to reduce their sugar duties in amount pretty nearly .on
the plan proposed by the Noble Marquis ; though
he thought that they might be reduced in a manner
which would prove still more beneficial to the revenue,
and afford still greater relief to the planter. The plan
that he would propoQe was, that the duty should be so
arranged as to produce an average reduction of 41. in
the cwt. ; but by imposing a smaller duty on the low_
priced sugars, and a larger duty on the high-priced sugars,
he thought that the justice of the case would be better
met, and that it would have the effect also of producing a
much more considerable consumption. With respect to
the conservative system, of which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had spoken, he thought that it was that very
thing which had proved injurious to the colonies instead
of beneficial; for there happened to be a conservative
principle at home as well as abroad ; and it was the
operation of the conservative principle in favour of the
landowners at home that had acted so much to the detri-
ment of a fair market for West India produce in this

country.
Mr. P. THOMSON objected to the resolutions of the
Committee having been referred to, as he thought that it
was very irregular, inasmuch as they were not yet before
the House. It was argued, that if four shillings of the
duty were taken off, the planter would be benefited half
and the consumer half; but he did not believe that this
would be the case ; for if the price in this country rose two
shillings per cwt., our sugar markets had such an in-
fluence on the sugar markets of the whole world, that the
price would every where rise 2s. per cwt., the effect of
which would be to give a fresh stimulus to the foreign
grower ; so that in a short time he would be able to out-
bid our West India growers, and their supposed benefit
would consequently be very ephemeral in its duration. It
was also said that the revenue would not suffer so much
as had been anticipated. Now, he had always been one
of those who contended that the reduction of a duty al-
ways in part repaid itself by means of the increased con-
sumption ; but nevertheless he was of opinion that the case
of sugars was one of the least forcible illustrations of that
doctrine; and the figures proved his case, for since
the last reduction the sugars in bond had fallen from 531. or
545. to 235. or 24s ; and yet, in comparison wish this
very considerable fall, there had been nothing like a rela-
tive increase in the consumption. All must be anxious to
support public credit, and he therefore put it to Gentlemen
whether they were ready to put in jeopardy such a sum as
600,0001., when it was quite clear that this sum could not
be made up in one year by an increased consumption ?
Gentlemen must provide some other means of increasing
the revenue, unless they would injure public credit, if they
gave up these duties. He denied, too, that the reduction
would be a proportionate relief to the West India planters.
He was sure that when the Report of the Committee was
presented to the House, the West India planters would see
that the Government was not inattentive to their interests,
and was prepared to give relief by other means. It had
already been stated by his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp)
that he was prepared to introduce measures of fiscal relief,
but he could not introduce them as a part of the Sugar
Duties. Those regulations were, however, to be accom-
panied by a condition that the West India Islands should
a.ouie s- proposition were adopted,
it would prevent those islands from embracing this condi-
tion. His Noble Friend meant to give time to see how the
Legislatures of the colonies would act, and it was for the
Gentlemen opposite to ascertain if they would not—should
their views be carried into effect—prevent those colonies
from even taking the condition of his Noble Friend into
consideration. lie hoped that those Gentlemen who
wished to give relief to the West Indies would not support
a measure which would be a benefit to the West Indies
only proportionate to the half of the sum which would be
lost to the revenue. —( Hear. )
Lord SANDON explained. He thought it was very
hard that a question of that kind could not be brought
before the House without its being coupled with that other
question—the improvement of the slaves—with which it
was not necessarily connected. If it were not intended to
give relief to the West India interest unless on condition
of providing for the melioration of the condition of the
slaves, that ought to have been stated in the first instance.
He heard now, to his surprise, the same statement that lie
had heard last year, and made for the same purpose. It
was not fair that the condition of the West India interest
could not be considered without reference to that great
topic in which the public took so strong an interest.
Mr. P. THOMSON denied the charge of the Noble Lord,
that he had first introduced the subject of slavery to the
notice of the House iu conjunction with this question.
When his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) had stated his
views to the Houses and bad explained what lie intended

to do for the West Indies, he had expressly stated that he
should make it one of the conditions of regulating his con-
duct, that the islands having Legislatures of their own should
adopt the regulation which had been adopted in the Crown
colonies. With regard to his motives for making the ob-
seryations the Noble Lord had alluded to, if the Noble
Lord suppose 4 that they were not as pure as any the Noble
Lord professed, he aged leave to give that suppr sition a
flat contradiction.—(Hear, hear.)
Several Members rose to speak on the Right Honour-
able Gentleman resuming his seat ; but

. -
Lord C.ANDON was heard in further explanation : He
did not quarrei with the proceedings of the Noble Lord,
but he did quarrel with the proceedings of the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman for including in a discussion on the

question whether the duties on sugar should be !".r.s. or
45., the question of the condition of the slaves. If it
were the i'r4ention of the Government that no relief
should be given to the West fudies unless they submitted
to restrictions, why iv,is that not stated i);:fure going into
the Committee? He wondered, with such opiMons, thv.
the Government should have made a grant of 100,0001.
to garindoes without first insisting on that island adopt-
ing the 'reg,-4aticn7. He begged not to be understood
as attributing improp;r cari.c.ve to the Right Honourable
Gentleman.

Lord HOWICK referred to the declarattota u-satj.e h-,
his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp), when the Hon. Member
for Wey..7..0:4th brought forward his motion, and con-
tended that the ,Go.we,7pment and the House had then
pledged themselses to make a 4is,:inction between those
colonies which adopted the Government regulat:Gns and
' those }-ri-!.:etl did not. If the House, 'after eh pledging. it_
self, should give reiief without regard to that adoption, it
WOLIJd forfeit itiple4es. iif it adopted thltNiofbhlef,)ll..loowrded's
(Chandra) propositiop, and reduced the duty 1,
, ;.t would
andrn akethnuosewhiuh
distinctiondid bueuttwfuelelfwibtohsee
reisuJtuktunditendatiojs Of that
House. His Noble Friend had kept that recommendation
in yje,v, and therefore proposed that the duties should be
levied for sa zi.urths only, in older that the subject might
be reconsidered this 'sessio.i, ;:pd that before the end of the
session measures of relief might be taroutli.4 forward con-
sisten: with the pledge given by Parliament. if ',60
the pkonse Agrez.,: :o the proposition for levying the duties
for six Months, all the tcsiv...e.; would have a fair oppor-
'
tunitie to adopt the regulations ancpie,4 in the Crown
.. • .
r o I orilei.
3irG°rli
thatL it NBtj l'
hadfe ltvribfrrasseq by the discussion,
and regretted been i:rough.t'c;? t thli time. In ,1
his opinion, the Noble Lord might have no,c
r----1,0a,7.,1 the
.'iscussion till be had matured his schemes, and Was ire-
'Parei;;,a ;tate to the House by what plan he proposed to
give relief to the ~;test !tidies, or was prepared to say that
he was unable to give tiny so--;.J. He felt embarrassed by
supporting public credit, and Oti the oche:,
he felt tie necessity of giving relief to the West India in-
the this
n discussion, o n
of, because he was aware, o.; 41:e see hand, of
in-
terest. He had felt "he. necessity of supporting public
credit, when the Ministers last y2',:: rpeqe such large con-
cessions to other interests, and befiad then ok;ectad to those
conces,:ions, declaring, that if they were made at all, they
ought to be made in. that quarter which was now requiring
4

them, and stood so much in need of them. He bad then
contended that if the Government had any surplus revenue,
which he did not believe, it ought to be reduced by giving
relief to the Weed Indies. He had felt great embarrass-
ment, on being called en to take this subject into considera-
tion, between the necessity of supporting public credit and
the necessity of giving relief to the West Indians. But at
length he had satisfied himself that the revenue would
lose very little more in adopting the proposition of
hie Noble Friend than if they adopted the proposition
of the Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Nothing was more certain than that the proposition
to levy the duties for six months would introduce
great embarrassment into the trade. Under the ex-
pectation that the duty would be reduced at the end of that
time, no man would buy sugar who could help it, and
no man would embark in the trade. By reducing the
duty at once, however, the consumption would increase,
and make up the deficiency of the revenue, while the
measure of the Noble Lord, checking consumption, would
not obtain so much as he calculated. If, indeed, the Noble
Lord intended at the end of six months to raise the duty, no
doubt his plan would lead to an immediately increased
consumption. By lowering the duty at once, the con-
sumption would be increased, and, therefore, conceiving
that the proposition of his Noble Friend would not cause a
greater deficiency of revenue than that of the Noble Lord
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he should support the
motion for the reduction of duty. He believed that the
reduction of duty of four shillings would not cause any
material deficiency of revenue, and he was confirmed in
this by what had already occurred. Thus the amount of
revenue obtained from sugar in the half-year ending July
5, 1831, was more by 97,000/. than the revenue obtained
from sugar in the half-year ending July b, 1830. Though
the rate of duty had been lowered 3e., the consumption
had increased sufficient to make up that sum. He, there-
fore, would support the motion for the reduction of duty,
and he thought it would be particularly useful, not merely
for the relief it would actually afford to the West
Indies, but as a sign of the sympathy of the Legislature
of this country with the colonies. It would contribute to
rally round us all the strength and all the attachment of
our colonies, which could not fail to be, in these critical
times, of great importance.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BURGE said the colonists were not now calling
for what the Noble Lord and his friends seemed to con-
sider a boon, but for that which had been long promised,
and denied them—an act of justice. It was for the House
to consider whether they would now refuse the little which
was asked, or whether they would, by persisting in the
course recommended by the Government, place the colo-
nists in such a desperate condition as to render them un-
able to continue their connection with this country.--
(Hear, hear.) lie felt it his duty at that moment to ab-
stain from making any comments on the effect of the
fiscal regulations lately introduced. A better opportunity
would arise for the discussion of that question. He would
content himself, therefore, by expressing the gratification
he felt on hearing the sympathy for the West Indians
which seemed to be felt by aII who bad spoken on the
subject, and he hoped they would make that sympathy
effectual by voting for the proposition of the Noble Lord.
Mr. ROBINSON observed that the Vice-President of
the Board of Trade rested his strongest argument on that
injury which a reduction would produce to the revenue—
au injury so much greater than it was able at present to
bear. Now, without admitting all the extent of that in-
jury, he must say, that before the Government made up
their minds to give up voluntarily a million and a half of
taxation last Session, they should have considered the suf-
ferings of the colonists; for, in his opinion, the reduction
of the duties on candles and on coals was not half so much
required for the prosperity of the country as the reduction
of the burdens of the co'onies, with a view to the
increase of the consumption of the articles they pro-
duced.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the House
would consent to the present proposition as the commence-
ment of a course which would be productive of good ra-
ther than of loss to the revenue, while at the same
time it would add much to the comforts of the people.
Mr. P. STEWART contended that the reduction of
duty could produce no loss to the revenue, because it
would he compensated by the increased consumption,
which, allowing the present surplus of 40,000 hogsheads
to be taken from the market, would give an additional
duty of 900,000/. The Government bad already expe-
rienced the benefit of a slight reduction of duty in the
articles of coffee and spirits, both of which produced a
much larger amount of revenue under the present duty
than they had brought to the Exchequer under the higher
duties. But even passing by this consideration, he must
admit that, with every due regard for the Exchequer, he
felt the West Indies were now reduced to such a state,
that it was impossible to avoid doing something for them
at all hazards.—(Hear, hear.) He might say that the
colonists were entitled to ciaLw. a redoctimmeriVlWi-dlrt
by another and more powerful interest, the landed proprie-
tors of this country. Convinced, therefore, that a re-
duction of the duty on sugar would be a relief, and that
it was their only available resource, he would remind the
House of the declaration of Mr. fluskisson, delivered in
the memorable debate about eighteen months ago, when
he said, that even if the country sustained a slight loss
for the first six months from the reduction of duty, still
the long suffering of the West Indians, and the oft-repeated
promises of the Government, entitled them to demand such
a sacrifice.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ADEANE expressed his determination to support
the proposition of the Noble Lord, both on account of the
relief it would afford the colonists, and the addition which
it would make to the comforts of the poorer classes in this
country. If he thought the reduction of duty would
amount to any thing—seven or eight hundred thousand
pounds—he might pause before he agreed to injure the
revenue to that extent, hut being convinced it could not
reach 400,000/., he would not allow the fear of a reduc-
tion of that amount to prevent his consenting to an act of
policy and justice.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUNT agreed also that the reduction could not

operate injuriously, and he would therefore vote for it.
It was a question, indeed, from the condition of the people
of this country, whether the continuance of such high
duties would not lead to a reduction of revenue by a dimi-
nution of consumption?
Mr. A. BARING said he had been taunted with hay-

ng observed at one time that the silk trade set,med to be a
condemned trade in this country. He might, he thought,
with equal justice say now, that the colonists were a con-
demned body in the community. The course pursued to-
wards them was, undoubtedly, that which was only justi-
fiable towards the convicted; but it was with him a seri-
ous consideration whether they might not obtain a full
sense of the value and importance of the West Indies when
that knowledge would be too late. With respect, how-
ever, to the present proposition, he must say he thought it
could do no good to this country, or afford any material re-
lief to the sufferers, although, as the expression of sympathy,
:t might in the present state of their affairs be of some service.
Toe real question was, however, just this—Would a reduc-
tion of duty increase the revenue? He thought net. I,.nd in
the present financial condition of this country, he could not,
under such circumstances, hazard so large a portion of
revenue oa the experiment proposed by the Noble Lord. He
must add, at the same time, that he deprecated these votes
for six months, because they put a stop to all commer-
cial transactions, and unsettled all the arrangements of
trade. No man could, indeed, be expected to hazard his
capital ip any undertaking, when the permanency of the
regulations affecting it was so uncertain. ffe did not
wish to enter into the question of the fiscal regulations
applied to the colonies; but this he would say, that the
West Indians were so much reduced in credit by hurri-
canes and by insurrections, that no man connected with
them coo;:3 z_7..i.lte money on his property there, even at two
years' purchase, "to buiid ::p again his fallen fortunes.
Without, however, pursuing this subject further;
would say that he must give his vote at present in defenCe
of the revenue, and in opposition to the motion of the
Noble Lord.—(Haar.)
Mr. F. BUXTON would be glad to relieve the planter ;
but when he knew that, by the Mode of relief sought, a
greater burden would be thrown on the negro, he could
not consent to it. if the queetion respecting the West
cwfaysivn;,wr7l.iichTihtecouldobliiee
"Erik were not speedily settled, it would settle itself in
• •
hnie,nctoitighl‘t to refuse the planter
Lsaenot
it4.ldel3d,rvalwa
sia:-'sgi,n;‘h7hyai;is
oh7ineizo
relief
until the planters had given the mitigation to which they
were pledged.
Mr. JAMES was convinced that everything which
tended to ;el,;e7e the master must have a tendency to be.
nefit the slave. Yytat he zone fo;.-, however, was, to sug-
gest to his Majesiy's Ministers the justice and proKie'y of
establishing an ad valorem dutyas
a plonasnutegrarw.
Ii was a
great that a planter who sold his sugar. at 40s.
a cart:ls:am:4 pay the st:c e data
sugar
ho sold his
at 60's. a cwt."wish, He hid no
ho://pr, to emu-
4101t•sty's Ministe'rs,'nd would therefore vote
with them ; Po'344dta 114 t, 'am soon' as •Ithey'Were
they would take means of diminishing th 2 eVila cefii-
plained of.
Mr.
he
beoei:nnet
eexapri explanation, af lower-pricedt ion,sa
increasingi said
s u
tgt
hha
era,:
ob
n-
ottaboW.c lowerAh ;g BehzmU....,tßuhaseTs:dthhuNiet,y;
first instance, as if the Noble M'algeu7iistibarlirtinaclisinteerntinw theer
carried, he (Mr. Warburtoo) would be 'precludedirom Pro-
posing his.
Mr. GOULBURN observed that on the contrary, if the

Iron. Gentleman voted that the duties should continue, he
would have no power to propose a reduction of any of
them. If, however, he voted for the lower rate of duty,
he might afterwards propose an ascending scale.
The Committee then divided—
For the amendment 134
Against it l4B
Majority -14
On our return to the gallery we found the Speaker in
the Chair.