The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-20 00:00:00

THE BUDGET.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY gave notice that he would move
an amendment to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposal
for increasing the income-tax, to the effect that in no case
should such increase exceed 3d. in the pound.

EDINBURGH &e, ANNUITY TAX ABOLITION

BILL.

Mr. BLACK moved the second reading of this bill. He
said that the tax which it was proposed to abolish was
founded in injustice, because it compelled the majority t 9
pay for the benefit of the minority. In support of that
statement he referred to the census of 1851, from which it
appeared that, on one Sunday, the number which attended
churches and chapels was 48,886. Of that number only
8,674 went to the State Church, while 15,315 attended the
Free Church, 12,792 the Presbyterian Church, and
12,205 the churches of the smaller denominations, so
that four-fifths of the inhabitants were forced to
pay for the religious teaching of one-fifth, and that teach-
ing by some of them was regarded as heretical. The result
of the late debate on the Church Rates Abolition Bill was
a very significant fact, but the Dissenters in this country
had not to complain of so much injustice in the payment of
those rates that the Dissentets in Scotland had with
reference to the present impost. In the former
case the Dissenters were called on to contribute
only for the maintenance of the fabric of the Church,
but in the later they were required to pay for the
support of the ministers of a church from which they con-
scientiously dissented. The present tax was greater in
hardship than ministers' money in Ireland, because it was
not limited, as in the latter, to 305., on any one per-
son, but might be raised to the extent of £2O
or £3O. The injustice of the tax was apparent,
and the only reason he could assign for its having been
borne silently for so long a time was, that the inhabitants
of Edinburgh considered that they would receive relief from
the house, in consequence of the bills which had been in-
troduced. The hon. member having adverted to some of
the arguments which had been advanced against the bill,
which he contended were totally fallacious, proposed
the adoption of the voluntary principle as a substitute for
the impost in question.
Mr. BLACKBURN said that he did not rise for the
purpose of opposing the bill, but merely to ask the intention
of the Government with reference to it.

Sir C. LEWIS said that he had no hesitation in stating
that he would support the second reading of the bill, but
he admitted there was a great difficulty in findhig an effi-
cient substitute for the tax which it was proposed to
abolish. He thought there was a strong similarity
between Ministers' money in Ireland and the present
impost. (Hoar, hear.) It should be recollected that
the hon. member who brought forward the bill preserved
the rights of the existing incumbents, so that there could
be no objection to the provisions on the ground of its in-
flicting any hardship on them. In the event of the bill
not passing this session, he proposed that Government,
next session, should introduce a measure on the subject and
provide an adequate substitute for the tax that the bill was
introduced to abolish. (Hear, hear )
Lord E LC HO opposed the bill, which he argued contained
a principle so dangerous, that every one who like himself
desired to maintain State establishments should consistently
vote against its further progress. In dealing with the
question they should act on the principle of compromise, as
in the case of Ministers' money, though he denied there
was any analogy between the two taxes., He concluded by
movinc, that the bill be read a second time that day three
months.'

—Nfr:NEWDEGATE seconded the amendment.
Mr. MILLER opposed the bill and supported the
amendment. _ _

Sir E. C 0 LEBRO OKE supported the second reading, and
said that as a member of the State Church he had no fear of
the maintenance of that establishment, even if it were ulti-
mately compelled to demsd on voluntary contributions.
Mr. CU MM IN G BRUCE considered that before the
right hon. gentleman (Sir G. Lewis) promised on the part
of the Government to introduce a bill on this subject, he
should have asked the hon. member for Edinburgh to with-
draw the present measure. The latter hon. member pro -
posed to take away fi om the poor the money subscribed at
the church doors, and to apply it as a substitute for the tax
which ho proposed to abolish. He regarded this bill as
most objectionable, and he would vote fbr the amendment.
Mr. CAI RD denied that the bill was open to the charges
that had been made against it, namely, that it would rob
both the church and the poor. In Scotland the poor were
provided most liberally for by the poor law, and not a far-
thing of the money collected at the church doors went to
their support. Indeed, in some cases, the collection of that
money had been discontinued altogether, in consequence of
there being no necessity for it, the poor no longer requir-
ing any eleemosynary assistance.
The LORD ADI, OCATE hoped that the discussion
on this subject would not be further protracted. The in-
justice which the tax inflicted had been felt by the different
committees which had considered the question. The noble
lord (Elcho) objected to the bill, but he did not suggest any
method for facilitating the settlement of this subject. He
was no advocate for the voluntary principle, and he did not
hold the State Church to be opposed to Scripture, but the
Government had to recognise the opinions of those who
thought differently. He contended that this tax was
entirely different to tithes or church endowment
in this country. With refererice to the voluntary principle
he directed attention to the number of religious edifices in
the country which were erected and maintained solely by
the operation of that priciple, to show that any fears with
respect to the support of the State Church of Scotland from
the abolition of the present impost was unfounded.
Mr. NEWDE GATE strongly opposed the bill, and would
vote for the amendment

Mr. BAXTER advised the hon. member for Edinburgh
not to press the bill beyond a second reading, if it reached
that stage, after the promise made on behalf of the Govern-
ment to introduce a bill on the subject next session.

After a few words from Mr. MUIR,
Mr. BLACK said that he was ready to accede to the sug-
gestion of the hon. member (Mr. Baxter), and not proceed
with the bill further than the second reading ; but he
trusted that the Government, in any measure thsy might
introduce, would provide for the abolition of the tax.
Mr. BRIGHT said they had been told not to put faith in
princes, and he advised his hon. friend (Mr. Black) not to
trust to governments. The present question was one of
those which Government would not deal with until they
were driven to the last extremity, in illustration of which
he referred to the question of church rates intthis country,
which was ultimately left in the hands of his hon. friend
the member for Tavistock. He asked the hon. member
(Mr. Black) not to believe that the. Government would
settle the question in a satisfactory manner—not that he
had any doubt of the good faith of the Home Secretary,
but because, in dealing with it, the Governmeat would
have to contend with difficulties from which an independent
member would be free.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that he did not wish the hon.

member to withdraw the bill, but would merely promise that,
in the event of the question not being settled, the Govern.
ment would bring in a bill next session.
The house then divided, and the numbers were—
For the second reading .. 162
' • Against it
Majority --54
The bill was then read a second tine.
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES BILL.
Mr. LOCKE moved the second reading of this bill, and
explained its provisions in detail. The first clause proposed
that all grain should be sold by measure throughout the
country, instead of by weight, but this introduced no inno-
• vation. The second clause was intended to remedy a very
serious inconvenience, which had existed for a great num-
ber of years. By previous acts of Parliament it had been
provided that models or copies of the standard weights and
measures should be procured by the magistrates throughout
England, and deposited with certain ersons. It was found
that there had been great neglect pin reverifying those
models, and this clause proposed that these models
and copies should be reverified every three years, and the
standard weights and measures six years before they were
respectively used. The 3d clause provided for the pre-
vention of the manufacture of false weights and measures,
and would remedy a very extensive system of fraud which
at present prevailed. The 4th clause empowered inspectors
of weights and measures, or other properly authorised per-
sons, to inspect measures and weights in markets or open
places of ground. The evidence adduced before the com-
mittee showed that great fraud was committed at sales in
these places, and the necessity for some preventive means
to repress its continuance as far as possible. The other
clauses provided for the inspection of packets or made up
quantities of any articles exposed for sale, in order to ascer-
tain if they contained what they were represented to do,
and to prevent still further the commission of fraud.
Mr. CAIRD said that there had been a bill in connec-
tion with this sukiect which had been withdrawn for the
present, and he thought the same course should be adopted
with reference to this bill, and then both measures could
be considered together next year. Ho moved that the bill
be read a second me thjs day three months.
Mr. HORSFALL wou'd support the bill, provided the
first clause were withdraw., but not otherwise.
Sir G. PEC HELL suggested that some further provision
might be made with reference to the selection and appoint-
ment of inspectors, and he hoped the bill would be adopted.
Mr. HUNT recommended. the withdrawal of the first
clause.
After a few words from Sir J. Shelley, Mr. E. Ball, Mr.
h
Henley, Mr. G. Clive, Mr. Bass, and oter hon. members,
Mr. LOCKE replied, and stated that he consented to
withdraw the first clause.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the bill was
read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tues-
day.

DIPLOMATIC PENSIONS BILL.
Mr. M. MILNES moved the second reading of this bill.
He contended that it was most im-,oolitic to have a special
act to exclude from the House of Commons persons whose
services might be of great advantage, merely because they
were enjoying pensions for duties done. He regarded
those pensions in the same light as those conferred on Mi-
nisters of the Crown or officers in the may and navy, and

he did not see on what ground there should be any excep-
tion with reference to their recipients.
Mr. B. COCHRANE supported the bill.
Mr. WILSON said if they looked to the origin of
the exclusion of diplomatic servants from the
house, he believed it would be found in the jea-
lousy which members formerly entertained of the
powers of the Crown. He believed that most persons were
satisfied that there was no ground for apprehending any inter-
ference by the Crown with the house, or that the power
which the Sovereign possessed of depriving diplomatic officers
of their pensions would be improperly exercised. He be-
lieved, also, that in giving his support to the bill he was
expressing the feelings of the Government.
After a few observations by Sir De Lacy Evans, Mr.
Edwin James, and Sir Minto Farquhar, the bill was read
a second time.
CHURCH-RATES COMMUTATION BILL.
Mr. ALCOCK moved the second reading of this bill,
which he stated was merely a permissive measure, and con-
ferred powers on the Charity Commissioners to act as asses-
sors in commuting these church-rates.
Mr. STEWART seconded the motion.
Mr. CLIVE considered that, as it would be impossible
to press forward the bill, it should be withdrawn.
ni Mr. BAXTER moved an amendment to the effect that
the bill should be read a second time that day three months.
Ultimately both the amendment and the motion for the
second reading of the bill were withdrawn, and the order
for the latter was discharged.
IMPRISONMENT FOR SMALL DEBTS BILL.—
OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON BILL.

Mr. WHITESIDE moved the second reading of
these bills respectively, and stated that he would take the
sense of the house with reference to them unless he received
an assurance that Government would take them up, in
which case he would watch their proceedings closely.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that it was his
intention, with the assistance of his learned friend the So
licitor-General, tolbring in measures with reference to the
consolidation of the statute law of the country.
Mr. E. JAMES said that the right hon. gentleman (Mr.
Whiteside) was entitled to the thanks of the house for the
industry he had exhibited in preparing these bills, and
bringing forward the subjects to which they related.
Mr. WHITESIDE, after a few remarks, withdrew the
bills.
The other orders of the day were disposed of.
The house then adjourned at a quarter to six o'clock.

NOTTINGHAM .RACES.-(THIS DAY.)

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