The Sun.
London, England, 1859-02-15 00:00:00

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have his assurance that tranquillity will be maintained, and
we have no reason to doubt his word, inasmuch as no man
has more faithfully or loyally kept those treaties which
when he ascended the throne in 1852 he promised to ob-
serve. I have, therefore, my lords, the strongest confidence
in the continuance of peace, and the existence of that bless-
ing is all, I feel assured, that is required in order to put an
end to a traffic odious in itself, and which this country has
made so many and such great sacrifices to abolish. (Cheers.)
The Earl of CLARENDON—I am glad my noble friend
has been afforded the opportunity of explaining to the
house the course which he has taken in reference to this
important subject, and also of setting right public opinion
with respect to certain concessions which he is supposed to
have made. The community at largo have no means of
acquiring information upon such transactions except
through the medium of the press or the papers
which have been laid before Congress ; to one of which
—the despatch of Mr. Dallas, which was alluded to by
my noble friend behind me, and which I must say is one of
the most graphic and interesting documents I ever read in
my life—l would particularly refer. It presents such a ,
picture of " the interior" as is rarely given. (A laugh.) It
describes how much my noble friend opposite talked—how
much he listened, and dilates upon the admiration which he
expressed for the detpatch of Gen. Casss. But it would
seem that when my noble friend asked Mr. Dallas to report
to his own Government the conversation which had taken
place, the reply was that it was so multifarious that it was
completely out of his power to comply with the request. Mr.
Dallas however, it seems, suggested that my noble friend
should himself I,indertake the office of preparing a minute
of the conversation, and accordingly the noble earl went to
his desk and with the utmost readiness wrote down that
minute of all that passed of which your lordships have
heard, and which is certainly a most important document,
binding as it does her Majesty's. Government to undertake
great treaty obligations. I for one—possessing some slight
experience of such matters—could not help envying the
self-confidence displayed by the noble lord in sitting down
to compose in a few hours such a document, although my
surprise is somewhat diminished by the explanation which
he has just given, to the effect that he had previously held
communication upon the subject under discussion with the
law officers of the Crown. I should not, however, have
troubled your lordships on this occasion were it not for what
has fallen from my noble friend with respect to the course
which he says was pursued by his predecessors in office. It
would appear that the noble earl considers we claimed a
right of search, which could be exercised only by belli-
gerents ; and to exercise which, in time of peace, would be
"contrary to international law. We, however, never claimed
or exercised any such right. The state of the law, as well
as our practice towards other countries, was laid down with
the utmost distinctness by my noble friend above me (the
Earl of Aberdeen) in language which commanded the as-
sent of the Minister who, at the same time, filled the office
of Secretary for Foreign Affairs in the United States. It
was then provided we should have the means of ascertaining
the nationality of a ship, and of learning whether she was
in reality entitled to carry the colours whkh she bore.
It was understood that this course should always be pur-
sued with great caution and discretion, and on the responsi-
bility of the officers in command, and it was provided at the
same time that no vessel entitled to fly the American colours
should be meddled with, nor should the British officers
meddle with such a vessel, even though it absolutely had a
cargo of slaves on board. Now? no doubt on the coast of
Cuba acts may have been committed by our officers which
can hardly be justified, though we do not even know the
truth of that. It is perfectly true that mail after mail
brought over a catalogue of British outrages, some of which
were manifest exaggerations, and of course such instances
demand strict inquiry. In due time, I suppose, we shall
receive reports of that inquiry ; but I believe that, except
perhaps on the coast of Cuba, this search has been exer-
cised with great care and discretion by our officers, and, so
far from the American Government having room for dis-
pleasure, I think they should be obliged to us for having
rescued their flag when borne under such illegal and dis-
reputable circumstances. (Hear.) I believe, at all events,
that the Parliament and the Ministry of this country would
be much obliged to any other Power which rescued the
English flag from similar disgrace. (Hear, hear.) But, in
reality, the right of search, so understood, did work well.
It was always confined to the African coast ; it very rarely
interfered with the legitimate course of commerce ; and the
result to both Governments appeared pe, f xtly satisfactory
If, however, as the result of my noble friend's altered ar-
rangements there is to be no inquiry of this sort as to the
nationality of a vessel, and if that nationality is to be as-
sumed from the colours which she chooses to fly, why there
is an end of all precautionary measures. (Hear.)
The Earl of MALMESBURY—I may not have made

myself thoroughly understood, and perhaps your lordships
will allow me to explain. If the course just suggested by
the noble earl were pursued, what would be the use of the
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identical instructions Those instructions are intended to

give our cruisers the right of challenging only, so as to put
an end to the anomalies which arose in the practice of
different commanders, and to prevent the disputes which
have hitherto taken place between the two countries. Ido

not give up the right, which, on the contrary, is a well-
established right; but at the same time we have thought it
desirable to fix the responsibility upon the officers excr-

cising it.

The Earl of CLARENDON—Not having seen the in-
structions, I cannot give an opinion respecting them ; but
I do not clearly -understand even now how these identical
instructions will enable a British officer to institute inquiry
as to the nationality of an American vessel. (Hear, hear.)
At all events, we must have the same seta of rules and regu-
lations for all nations. We cannot have one code for a
powerful, and another for a weak nation. (Hear, hear:)

We must exercise the same forbearance, the same abstinence
from inquiry, in respect to every flag, so that the flag of
Monaco must be allowed by British cruisers to pass as un-
noticed as that of America. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.)
Hut I belle,. the American Government are quite as de-
sirous as our own honestly to put down the slave trade, and
are just as unwilling as ourselves that the national flag
should be prostituted by shielding this abominable traffic.
I can only hope that the new regulations adopted and those
identical instructions will be successful ; but to be success-
ful they must be adopted by other Powers than by France
and England, for otherwise they might be easily eluded by
adopting the flag of the country which has not subscribed
to them, and they would thus become wholly inoperative.
(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ABERDEEN—It should be remembered
that the right of search is by no means inseparably mixed
up with the slave trade, and is only connected with it inci •
dentally. Considering it as an abstract right, the noble
earl opposite (the Earl of Malmesbury) talked of our exer-
cising this claim with a high hand. Now, I will read to
your lordships how this " high hand" was exercised 20
years ago—exercised in a way which perfectly satisfied the
American Government, and which has worked perfectly
well ever since, without unduly interfering with the course
of trade. In a despatch dated October 1841, to Mr. Steven-
son, I adopted these terms :

" The undersigned renounces all pretensions on the part
of the British Government to visit and search American

vessels in time of peace. Nor is it as American that such
vessels are ever visited ; but it has been the invariable prac-
tice of the British navy, and, as the undersigned believes,
in all the navies in the world, to ascertain by visit the real
nationality of merchant vessels met with on the high seas,
if there be good reason to apprehend their illegal character."
To carry out this system a code of instructions was framed
with the utmost care, and has ever since remained in
force ; and if the new regulations spoken of by the noble
earl prove as effectual as they were, he will do more than I
expect, for I believe no code of instructions on this subject
could be clearer or more advantageous to commerce than
that drawn up about 1841 by Dr. Lushington and others.
But it now appears that the American Minister has been
congratulating his country on some concession made by the
noble earl, and the President in his annual message has also
referred to this concession as though it were something
quite new. Now, I venture to say that 20 years ago every-
thing which it was possible for the Americans to demand or
for us to grant had been granted. I will just read, how-
ever, a qualification which was then laid down, and which

it may be useful to remember :
" The President may be assured that Great Britain will
always respect the just claims of the United States. We
make no pretensions to interfere in any manner whatever,
either by detention, visit, or search, with vessels of the
United States, known or believed to be such. But we still
maintain, and will exercise when necessary, our right to
ascertain the genuineness of any flag which
right,
hutspeltlttedr
vessel may bear. If, in the exercise of this
from involuntary error or in spite of every precaution,
be
tion, loss
or injury should be sustained, a prompt reparation
afforded ; but that we should entertain for a sinffle instant
the notion of abandoning the right itself would be quite im-
possible."
(Hear, hear.) I maintain still that it is quite impossible to
abandon the right thus laid down. (Hear, hear.) If the
noble earl reserves that right, ho does all that I ever pre-
' tended to do ; if he gives up more than that, the result, I
cannot but think, will be that it will become impossible to
maintain the police of the seas. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of CARLISLE—I hope that the principle so
forcibly proclaimed in the extract just read by my noble
friend will not be departed from in the policy of this
country, unless we are assured of very palpable advantages
from the adoption of some other scheme. I believe I am
correct in stating that the principle just enounced is the
identical ono always acted upon until the accession of the
present Government. (Hear, hear.) The adoption of the
now code referred to by the noble earl, and to which I
heartily wish all possible success, will, I trust, be deter-
mined on at the earliest possible moment; for until some-
thing is resolved upon respecting it the high seas will be
absolutely left with no protection whatever. (Hear.)
The Earl of DERB Y—There seems to me; iii point of
fact, to be only an imaginary difference between the views
expressed on both sides of the house. Nobody contends for
a single moment that this country or any other has a right
to board and to visit the ships of another nation. On the
other hand, nobody denies that this country or any other
has a right, upon well-founded suspicion, to ascertain the
nationality of a vessel carrying a particular flag. The
question is, however, in what manner is that right to be
exercised, and what proceedings are to be taken in pur-
suance of it ? Now, as long as there is no definition as to
the course to be taken in such cases, you are always liable
for the errors or indiscretion of the particular officer en-
gaged, and in point of fact, although he may have ascertained
that there were plausible grounds for suspecting the tn, iti
is quite clear he has committed an infraction of interuNa
ever-
law should that suspicion turn out to be ill-founded
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theless, it is admitted that, under such circumnsdtanreoecse,ewahinegres
there exists reasonable ground of suspicion,
are taken accordingly, that is an infractions mess.
But the object
of the law for
which no country would demandr
e
of my noble friend—and I hope b
e ing it—is to come to a distinct understanding between
the French and the American Governments and the Go-
vernment of this country for the puiyose of avoiding any
cause of difference for the future arising out ofri.
visit paid
by the commander of a cruiser order to ascertain and to
verify the nationality of a vessel. That was the sole object
my noble Weil(' had in view; but he has neither abandoned