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nurnhcr of the cruisek
thin double the nurnbe,

In the burial places in some parts of the in-
terior of the American Continent, poles are erected over
the graves, on which are suspended robes, pieces of cloth,
kettles, bags of trinkets, baskets of roots, wooden bowls,
&c. ; all of which the survivors believe their departed re-
latives may require in the next world.
CHOLERA.—The cholera has advanced to
Nlusselburgh, and is now within six miles of this city.
At Tranent it has been marked by the severity which ge-
nerally attends its first appearance; but at Haddington its
effects have been remarkably light, the whole deaths in a
period of four weeks being only 18 in a population of
5,400, or 20, if we include the neighbouring villages, and
the disease seems to have nearly ceased. It has followed
the line of the great London road very closely, and it is
singular that Berwick and Dunbar have escaped. Still
we cannot help regarding it as a remarkable circumstance,
that though irregular and capricious in its advances in
some respects, it seems always to affect a north-west pro-
gression. If we draw a straight line on the map of Europe
from Grate, near Vienna, to Ayr or Irvine, it will be about
1,000 miles in length, and while the cholera has been
raging at a thousand points on the north side of that line
for nearly twelve months, it has never got a footing at a
single spot on the south side, though the intercourse across
this boundary is as great and constant as in any other di-
rection. And hence, we have the singular spectacle of a
disease which has migrated from the east of Europe, com-
mitting ravages on the shores of Britain, while Bavaria,
Italy, France, Swisserland, Rhenish Germany, and the
Netherlands, are still untouched by it.-•Ssotswnan.

France, therefore, by

eels, would prevent u.

would thus be enabled

treaty. There was also
which the contracting

other maritime Powers

PRICE 7D.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JANUARY 24.

The Marquis of ABERCORN took the oaths and his seat.

The Lottery Ticket Bill was read a third time.

The Earl of WICKLOW had no wish to increase the
embarrassments of the Government by asking some ques-
tions of the Noble Viscount (Melbourne) opposite, but
tie had looked anxiously for some time past in
'lopes to Lave seen some me .sure introduced for the pur-
oose of quieting unhappy Ireland. Some of the finest
provinces of that unfortunate country were in a
'tate of open rebellion to the lass's of the land,
‘nd were in a ripe state for the evil influence
of demagogues. Yet there was scarcely a single
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the whole land, and all this arising from some misunder-
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.iewal of the commissions. He wished to ask of the
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old that the fees were regulated and imposed by Act of
Parliament, and that the Government could not, there-
tore, interfere, but how was it to be explained
!hat the Irish Government had gone about the business in
such an ungracious manner, that they never once gave a
hint to the Magistrates that such a thing. wAs in: con-
templation. Tfie Meet -w6e rretneed
hament, and the Magistrates did not refuse to take
out their Commissions from the spirit of a miser,
nor out of any spirit of faction. There were several causes
which led them to take the course which they had done,
•'ne of these causes was that they were told that the Ma-
...,,istrates of England had no such fees to pay, and they were
of opinion that they should be on an equality. Another reason
was, that all those fees went into the pocket of the Lord
Chancellor's secretary. He (Lord Wicklow), was sorry
that such a feeling should exist, but certainly the Noble
Lord, as being connected with the present Government,
did not bear much of the good will of the people of Ireland,
and that feeling again extended to his secretary. The
Noble Earl here read several letters from persons in Ireland,
complaining of the want of Magistrates in several districts,
and that the greatest outrages were committed without there
being sufficient Magisterial power to take notice of them.
lie begged to know of the Noble Lord what measure, if
any, was in progress to do away with this state of things ?

Lord MELBOURNE said that there was a mistake on
the part of the Irish Magistrates as to their fees. All fees
upon the renewal of commissions were abolished by the
Ist of his present Majesty, chap. 4, and that Act said.
that the Lords of the Treasury should fix what remuneration
the law officers should be paid for such re-issuing, and
they had fixed them at only 2/. 13s. 6d., in place
of upwards of 91., as they used to be. They also laboured
under a mistake with regard to the Magistrates of Eng-
land. One commission was issued for the whole
county, and under that single commission for that whole
county the Magistrates were duly qualified ; but in
Ireland it had been the practice that a commission shoubi
be issued for every Magistrate. He hoped that when tbi,
explanation reached the Magistr 4tes of Ireland, they woul-
reconsider their opinion, and that the country would not
lose their services.

Earl GREY said, a relation of his had at one
time brought a measure into the other Holt,
for the purpose of doing away with the issuing
of commissions upon the demise of the Crown;
►nd he thought it would be well if such a measure was
now passed into a law. The Noble Lord took the sane
view of the case as Lord Melbourne, and hoped tln,
Magistrates would not withdraw themselves from tht
support of the internal peace of the country.
Earl WICKLOW hoped that the explanation that had
been given by the Noble Lords would fully satisfy the Ma-
gistracy of Ireland. He was very glad to hear tl.e
Noble Earl take such a view of the question.
The Earl of WESTMEATH said it had been a feeling
with the Magistrates with whom he had associated, that
was enough for them to be obliged to expose their lives,
without having money extracted from their pockets.
Mr. BERNAL brought up the Buckingham Palace Bill,
and the Charitable Purposes Bill.

CONVENTION FOR THE SUPPRESSION OF THE

u to the manner in which it should be exercise&
if given. There was also another question of diffi-
culty to which he wished to call the attention of the
Noble Lord, and that 'as, whether any right of search
should exist when a vessel was within cannon-shot of the
shore of another State. All these questions roost be de-
cided, and they could only be decided by a supplemental
treaty. He thought it absolutely necessary there should
be a provision in this convention, as there was iu all its
predecessors, for the indemnification of British subyeta, in
case of any abuse of that great power which we were now
granting to France, for the sake of the interests of huma-
nity. He desired to know, first of all, what progress had
been made in drawing up these instructions; and next,
what fund, if any, was provided for the indemniscatien
of British subjects.
Earl GREY was understood to express his satisfxtion
that the Noble 13tror, theugh he found fault with the
details of the convention, did not object to the principle,
on which it was founded. He thought by this convec-
tion a great advantage had been gained, not only for.Lag-
land but for humanity in general, by the prevention of that
inhuman traffic in the sinews and muscles of man—the
,lave trade. He thought his Majesty had not been iii-
advised to make that statement in his opening speech to
Parliament to which the Noble Baron had alluded. It
was true this treaty Wl4B not so extensive as those which
had been made with Spain, Porrtfal, Sweden, and
Netherlands; hut their Lordships must be aware—ano non,
:note than the Members of the late Administration—of the
lifficiety of snaking any arrangement upon this sobjeet
with France. Their Lordships must know the jealousy
which existed in that country as to the right of s-arch.
It existed not only in France, but also in the L'aited
sltates of America, and be beiieved it was also felt by the
ffie,rs of our own navy. He therefore thought that mush
aad been (hole in obtaining the a,reemear of France to the
piovi.iona of this convention ; for though it was not so
extensive as our conventions with the other Powers, it
,as sufficiently extensive to give to the • navies of the two
countries the power of putting a check on that, trade which
iiigraced humanity, and of which both Governments

Lord ELLENBOROUGH rose to make two motions,
for returns to which he supposed that no objection wool.)
be offered. The first was for a return of the number of
vessels engaged in the slave trade which bad been seized
under the present treaties ; and the second was for a re-
turn of the number of vessels condemned by the mixed
commission, and of the number of English vessels which
had been employed in making the seizures. He would
avail himself of this opportunity to make a few observa-
tions on the convention recently made between his Majesty
and the King of the French for the more effectual sup-
pression of the slave trade, and to ask for explanations on
one or two points connected with it from the Noble Earl
at the head of his Majesty's Government. Great bad been
his disappointment on reading the convention recent])
placed WI their Lordships' table, for he found it much les.
efficient than those which had gone before it. First of all.
it wanted the instructions which formed part of all the
other treaties : next it wanted a provision for the indem-
nification of his M jesty's subjects, in case of any abuse of
the right of search now conceded ; and last of all, the
limits under which that right of s--arch was to be exer•
cised were less than they had been in all former treaties.
There was no such limitation in the treaties which
we hail formed with Spain and with Portugal,
in which the right of search .had been reciprocally con-
ceded. In the treaties with Sweden and with the
Netherlands it was provided that the right of search
should not be exercised in the Mediterranean or in any
other European sea,—a limitation which made the right
of search almost universal, inasmuch as no slave-trade
was carried on within those seas. In this treaty the
limits were more restricted than in any other, for they
were restricted to that part of the western coast of Africa
which runs from Cape Verd to 10 degrees south of the
Equator ; to the islands of Madagascar, Cuba, and Porte
Rico, and a distance of 20 leagues from their coasts; and
to the same distance from the coast of Brazil. Moreover,
the right of search was not to be exercised beyond those
limits, unless the cruisers to whom it was given came up
with the slave-ship beyond those limits without having
ever lost sight of her; so that, if a night intervened, the
right of search could not be exercised beyond the apact
which he had already mentioned. If their Lordships
would only take this point into their consideration, the)
would see that this limitation nullified the provisions
which were included in the treaties which we had made
with the other four Powers. There was another differ-
ence between this convention and its predecessors, which
he deemed still more important. In the conventions with
Spain and Portugal there was no limitation as to the num-
ber of vessels of each kingdom which were to be employed
under them. In the conventions with the Netherlands
and with Sweden, there was a limitation that not more
than twelve vessels shoe
convention it was pro.

-,,Anxiously wished to see the termination. The Noble Lord
!mad complained that the limits were more restricted under
this than under any former convention. They were so ;
out alter the best inquiries that coul 1 be made, and the
hest information that could he collected, it was believed
that the right of search, within the limits and under the
conditions mentioned in the convention, would be most,
effectual. Besides, that very limitation might serve as
some counterpoise to the danger which the Noble Lord
anticipated our shipping would incur from the concession
of this right of search. The Noble Lord had stated his
Apprehension, that as the number of cruisers to be em-
ployed by each of the Powers was not specified, and as
each was restricted to employ not more than double the
number of the cruisers of the other, one of the Powers by
refusing to employ any cruisers, would compel the other
to do the same, and would thus nullify and defeat the
convention. Now this supposition took it for granttel,
,hat there would be a want of good faith on the part of
France in the execution of this treaty. If there wire
that want of good faith on the part of the French Go-
vernment, he did not know by what form of svor,s he
could possibly bind it. With respect to a mixed com-
mission as had been suggested by the Noble Lord,
whatever disposition the French Government 'right
feel with regard to an ercangeteeat of that nature, it was
totally inconsistent with French law. It was incompatible
with the law of France that the property of any French
',abject should be brought for adjudication before any other
than a French tribunal. The French law might petit ipa
he altered hereafter, but at present it opposed an insur-
mountable objection to the plan suggested. The Noble
Lord had proposed two questions, having for their• object
zo ascertain in what state the instructions were, and
whether any measures would be adopted to procure indem-
nification for English subjects who ::,might be injured by
improper conduct on the part of the French schooners.
He could not give the Noble Lord a satisfactory answer to
tither of the questions. Ile was not prepared to say in
what state the instructions were; but he believed he
.itiei'at state with some confidence, that there would be no
daculty on the subject, and that they would be placed
on a most satisfactory footing. With respect to the Noble
Lord's second question, as to the procuring of indemnifi-
cation, all he could say was, that until some spee;fie
arrangement could be made (and he was not prepared
either to admit or deny that this would be done), any
undue exercise of power by the French schooners would
stand on the same tooting as any injury committed by one
State against another. A representation of the injury
would be made, and redress, he hop,d, obtained, where the
justice of the case required it. This was all that he felt
himself called upon to say on the present occasion, and
would therefore sit down with once more remarking, that
even by the admission of the Mile Lord consioerable ad-
vantage had been gained by the treaty.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, that the treaty under
consideration was the first he had ever known to have
ee❑ laid before ParliAnent as an original treaty in the
French language. It had been the invariable practice,
since Lord Grenville was in the Foreign• oflic,t, to have
every original treaty in the English.
Lord GODERICH observed, that a copy of the treaty
in English was also laid upon the table.
The Earl of ABERDEEN replied, thet that was a
translation ; but there ought to be two original treaties,
one French and the other English.
Earl GREY expressed a wish that there should be nn de-
parture from may rule which existed en the subject. Foe
his part he knew nothing of the matter. lie took it fan-
granted that the papers would be sent to the Foreign-
dike in the usual format.

The Earl of ABERDEEN said, that tli! Noble Iltrl
did not stem to understand the point to which he had re.
`erred. The mistake committed could not be remedied.
Our Ambassador had signed a French treaty, instead of
signing one in French anti another in English. The
..mission was of course accidental on the part of Lord
Granville. lie did not mean to do more than advert to it.

The motion was then agreed to, and the House ad-
journed to Thursday.

HO USE OF CO3LTIONS, JANUARY 24.

The SPEAKER took his se.t at Four o'clock, when the
House proceeded to ballot for a Committee to decide upon
the merits of a petition agatast the return fur the court, y
of Forfar. The gallery, in consequence, was not opened
until Half•pnat Four o'clock. The Committee were sworn
in, and proceeded to their labours.
Sir E. SCOTT presented a petition from the city of
Lichfield, praying that a provision might be made in the
Reform 13111 to compel the freehol•ters to reside in the
county. The petition complained that upwards of 700
persons entitled to votes lived in other counties at a consi-
derable distance.
The petition was read and ordered to he printed.

Mr. LITTLETON moved for returns of the quantity of
cutlery, British iron, and hardware, exported in the last
which were ord red.

Mr. HUME complained that the whole of the public
accounts were not laid before the House in a simplified
term, which would supersede the necessity of so many
returns being moved for, and occasion a saving of from
20 to 30,000/. a-year. He had this morning received
copies of the public accounts of the United Stites, which
were regularly published, and enabled every person to
look back for every species of information for any numtier
of years. He contended that such a mode should be
adopted by our Government, and be hoped soon to see it
,ffnted. They often heard of the Board of Trade, but his
knew of nothing which that Board did in communication
with this House.

. SANDFORD presented petitions from Somerton
Crewkerne, in SomersAshire, ag.tinst the General
try Bill. Also a petition from Mr. John Ward, a
irowster, in Sotnersetshire, complaining of the great
t•ion in the silk trade, in consequence, as the yeti-
asserted, of the removal of the prohibitory duties.
petitioner had been in the habit of employing from
to 1,000 persons, but he now was unable to votn-
with the foreign rnsnuf icture, and the English trade

perical as possible, so that any maritime Power, by de-
clining to employ any vessel, might nullify this convention
with regard both to England and to France. It could no
be desired that the four Provers to whom he had alread),
alluded, Spain Portugal, Sweden, and the .Netherlands,
should accede to this convention, inasmuch as they woub:
be less restricted by it than they were at present. Under
all the other treaties the vessels seized were carried before
a mixed commission. By the present convention the
vessels captured for being engaged in the slave trade, or as
being suspected of being fitted out for that infamous traffic,
are to be delivered over without delay to the jurisdictioh
of the nation to which they belong, and are only to be
judged according to the laws in force in that nation. Now
this clause of the convention enables France, by altering
her laws, to deprive the treaty of any value. What he
objected to was this—that Government had accompanied
this convention with provisions which enabled France, i'
so inclined, to nullifyit altogether. Tuere was another
point of importance on which it would be necessary that
there should be some positive instruction, and that was,
what should be the right of search when a vessel was
under the convoy of a vessel of war belonging to
another State. That would be a question of grew
difficulty—first, as to whether any right of search
should be given under such circumstances ; and next

been reduced to one-tenth of what it was formerly.
Lord SANDON presented a petition from the Maycr
and Corporation of Liverpool against the General Re-
gistry Bill.

Air. STRICKLAND presented a petition from the
town and neighbourhoAd of Bridlington, in the East
Riding of Yorkshire, against the General Registry Bill.
In consequence of the assertion that the opposition to the
Bill was at the instigation of the country attornies, he hod.
examined the list of the petitioners, and when he saw each
names as Lord Illacdonnell and Sir Wm. Strickland, lie
thought that he need say no more to prove th,it such en
assertion was unfounded.

The petition mt.: read, and ordered to be printed.
Mr. JEPHSON presented petitions from two parishes
'n the county of Cork, relative to the Grand Jury Laws,
and praying that two of the twelve Judges might be rtsi-
d,nt in Cork.
Mr. GREIG presented a petition from the beronyli
of Amersham, against the Reform Bill.
On the motion of Mr. CAOKER, it was ordered to I,e
printed.
ireeLhooriddo.C. AofVEa NtDowIS. Hi.
DprLsbeynstd a petitionirite,againstthefrrm
Generale
Registry Bill.
Mr. HUNT presented a petition from certain meet allies
,f the parish of Lambetlio againt the Anatomy Bid now

)ulli be so em to fed. But in thi. 1 Mr-
wided, tha '. , case should the and C
rs of tit: 'on be more , Regi,tl
oer of i ! th
dec ' • , - epres•
13 , . A .of and tioner
d ~, * , i v ision of the The IR
) a . ~ this convention, by SOO to
pa : es
.' agreed to invite the Pete w
to accede to it within as short a had be

fore the House; the petitioners stated, that although they
viewed the crime of " Burking" with great horror, they
viewed the Bill with still greater horror, as they firmly
believed it would open a door for a more " refined"
system of " Burking." They concluded by stating that if
the House were determined to supply the anatomical
schools with " subjects" they would recommend the
schools to be supplied with all persons, male and fern
who were in the receipt of unmerited pensions, all sui-
cides, convicted felons, and those Members of the late
Parliament who voted for Mr. Warburton's Bill.

The petition was ordered to be printed.
The Hos. MEMBER also presented a similar petitio❑
from Robert Thomas Webb, a surgeon, in St. Mar le-
bone, who, while he avowed himself an atheist, cared
nothing for the form of burial, and did not care what be-
came of his own body after his death, but said he had a wife
and family to whom the provisions of the Bill were highly
objectionable.—The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
Lord NIORPETH would take that opportunity of hav-
ing a matter set right about which there seemed to have
been some difficulty. The House would recollect he pre-
sented a petition last night, which drew forth an anee
dote from the Hon. Member for Preston, in which he
alluded to an individual having stated that he had
roasted his Bible. In these sources, from which

the public gained their information of what passed
in that House, the expression had been fixed upon
a Mr. Baines, of Leeds. He (Lord Morpeth) was per-
fectly satisfied that the Hon. Member for Preston had not
mentioned that gentleman's name, and he wished, there•
fore to know whether that charge was intended for him ?
Mr. HUNT felt quite certain that it would be in the
recollection of the House, that he did not mention that
gentleman's name. He mentioned the name of a Mr.
Smithson, and had not the slightest intention of making any
imputation against Mr. Baines. It was true that Mr.
Baines had often traduced him in his paper, but he should
be ashamed of himself if on that account he brought a
charge so serious against him.
Mr. STRICKLAND was quite certain that no person
who had attended to the statements of the Hon. Member
for Preston, could for a moment imagine that he
had made such a charge as had been stated. He (Mr.
Strickland) had no doubt that the mistake had arisen
in consequence of the Hon. Member's observation not hay-
ing been heard. As the Political Union of Leeda bad been
mentioned, he would take that opportunity of making
an explanation which he had been requested to do the
first opportunity. It would be in the recollectio❑ of the
Hon. Member that not long since the Hon. Member for
Kirkcudbright had made objections to Political Unions,
and had more especially pointed at the Political Union of
Leeds—

Mr. WARBURTON rose N order. A petition had
been presented against the Anatomy Bill, and the Hen.
Member opposite had taken that opportunity of speaking
upon Political Unions..--(Mr. Strickland at once gave way
and the petition was ordered to lie en the table.)

Mr. HUNT did not know whether, according to the
forms of the House, he could move the printing of the pe-
tition, as it represented to be the petition of one person,
hut bad been signed by upwards of 70 individuals, who
coincided with its prayer and recommended its considera-
tion to the House.

The SPEAKER thought that the petition could
not be ordered to be printed, and Mr. Hunt would not
press the motion upon the House.

- Mr. HUME, in presenting seven petitions from diffe-
rent parts of Ireland, praying for the abolition of
tithe', would take that opportunity of stating that
he was extremely sorry that the Honourable Member
was not present who made some observations rather per-
sonal to himself. It appeared to him an extraordinary
thing that such language should he used in that House,
calling the speech of an Honourable Member disgrace-
ful to him. If, indeed, they had freedom of speech
in that House, he conceived such a proceeding totally un-
called for. He, however, would make every allowance,
because he himself very often made use of expressions,
which were given an interpretation to by others which he
certainly did not intend. He had no hesitation furthi r
;n saying that he had used words which he should have
been glad not to have uttered. But the sum and sub-
stance of the arguments used by the Hon. Member he had
referred to was, that it was digraceful to state facts
in that House.—(Loud and continued cheering.)
With regard to the present petitions, they stated that the
greatest distress existed in Ireland on account of Church
taxation, and they characterised tithes as the Irish cholera,
and stated that the people had began to think there
that they were not morally liable to the payment of such
extortions. For his (Mr. Hume's ) part, he had no hesita-
tion in saying, that if the Legislature of this country
persevered in continuing laws that had perverted the feel-
ing of the whole nation to such an extent, as that they con-
sidered themselves not morally bound to pay tithes, it was
a question whether it was not disgraceful to the Legislature
to continue such Acts? He thought that ihe period hail
now arrived when it was incumbent on Government not
to be satisfied with reducing tithes only, but they must pro-
ceed to the Church property, the vestry law, and every tax
which came under the denomination of Church tax ttion.
If such taxation was continued, he would do as his an-
cestors had done before him in Scotland, resist such pro_
ceedings. —( Cheers.) Year after year had the complaints of
Irishmen been brought before that House, and been
almost always passed by, up to the present session.
Sound policy—humanity—the interest of England and
Ireland required that such laws should not exist,
and if his Majesty's Ministers wished that unanimity should
exist in Ireland and England, they must relieve the former
from the expence of keeping up a garrison in order to en-
force the collection of tithes. He held it to be inconsistent
with sound principles of policy in any country, to have
any part of it treated as Ireland was; and he hoped that
the day was not far distant when the ills of Ireland would
he taken seriously into consideration by his Majesty's Go-
vernment. The Hon. Member concluded by moving for
leave to bring up the petitions.
Sir ROBERT PEEL did not know whether it would
not he disgraceful not to adhere to the present system of
tithes, but when the House had consented to a Committee
it had not shewn a❑ unwillingness to consider whether
any new arrangement might be made. In pursuance of
his duty, he had that morning been occupied in consider-
ing the extent of the objections made, the nature of
their ground, and the possibility of making sonic other
arrangement. The time had not arrived to pronounce on
the question, and he would not be led into the general
question, notwithstanding the objections made. The
Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry, said that he
would propose the Hon. Member for Middlesex as a
member of that Committee. But the Hon. Member for
Middlesex said the question of tithes is useless, because the
question of the payment of tithes had been decided.
That question had not been decided. He had not recol-
lected having used the word " disgraceful," but while there
were individuals who hail vested rights in property under the
laws of the land, it would be disgraceful for the House of
Commons to act on the assumption that that claim had
been defeated, because the question had been settled
by an illegal and riotous combination. He said that
would have been disgraceful. He would not decide between
the competency of the Legislature to consider the question,
and the right which individuals had under the existing
law. The Hon. Member for Middlesex said, if he were
an Irishman he would resist the payment of tithes. But
he had ❑o more right, moral, legal, or equitable, to defeat
the claims of tithe-holders under the existing law, than a
tenant had to resist the legitimate claim of his landlord.
Mr. O'CONNELL did not believe that any thinking
wan considered Ireland to have determined on refusing the
legal rights of the working incumbents. But theme was
an increasing determination in Ireland not to continue the
payments of tithes, if the subject were not taken up in
such a manner as to ensure a satisfactory settlement for
the future. A Committee indeed had been appointed for
eonsidiring the question, but that Committee could be
no satisfaction to Ireland. It was appointed on the prin-
ciple that Catholic Members should be excluded ; that
they had no right to search into and inquire what
arrangements should be proposed in respect of tithes.
What was this but announcing to Ireland that the Catho-
lics had no concern with tithes but to pay them ? It was a
subject fit for the Legislature, to consider how far a popula-
tion, of which seven-eighths did not belong to the Est mblished
Church, should pay for that Church which they did not
want. As to the refusal to pay tithes, it was not, indeed,
universal at present ; but, judging from its spread during
the last year, if it proceeded in the same ratio, by next year
it would be universal. It was therefore incumbent on the
House to take up the question at the present period,
in order that some satisfactory arrangements inight be
effected. If the question were left to the people them-
selves, it would soon most effectually be decided. It
bad already been decided in similar circumstances in Scot-
land, and it would be put an end to in Ireland,
by another, but not less efficient means. The question,
therefore, demanded the serious consideration of the
House ; the people of Ireland showed not the slightest
disposition, whilst they hated sinecures, to prevent the
working clergy from being amply paid.
Mr. STANLEY thought it would be extremely incon-
venient to enter into a discussion on the general question
respecting tithes, either as regarded England or Ireland,
nor would be have felt it necessary to rise on the present
occasion, but for the remarks of the Learned Member for
Kerry relative to the constitution of the Committee ap-
pointed. He might say it would have been more areordant

with the rules of that House when the question was dis-
cussed, and the principles were laid down on which the
Government formed a Committee. But there was one
remark which he could net but make regarding the con-
stitution of that Committee. It had been the wish
of the Government as much as possible to abstain
from putting down the names of Members who ha,l
in any very unequivocal manner expressed their decided
opinion on the subject, and who were beyond the possi-
bility of being changed by reason or argumeat. Trutt
while, so far as possib'e, they should endeavour to
obtain Members on both sides, the main body of
the Committee should be composed of me❑ of moderate
feelings and sentiments, who should be ready dispassion-
ately to hear and impartially to consider the evidence ad-
duced. But the Committee had not been constituted on
the ground that it was expedient, and would be more sa-
tisfactory to abstain from including Roman Catholic Mem-
bers. It was not come to from any feeling on our
minds that the Roman Catholics would not conscientiously
have discharged the duties imposed on them by their solemn
oaths. Had his Majesty's Government been inclined to
think the Roman Catholics would have swerved from such
a duty, it could not have happened that every Member
of the present Government, without one exception, for a
considerable number of years would have supported as they
did the claims of the Roman Catholics to stand in the
British Legislature on the same footing with Protestants.
It was with a view to convince both sides that fair and im-
partial justice would be done—to convince both parties
that the Government was not desirous of putting
on the Committee any person+ who might have
a bias one way or the other—that it was thought
expedient to adopt the course which was resorted
to, and to prevent any thing like a complaint that
the subject had been referred to a Roman Catholic
Committee. The Roman Catholic Members of this
House would, undoubtedly, have an opportunity of dis-
cussing the recommendations of the Committee, and
any measure that might be brought forward in
consequence of those recommendations for the considera-
tion of Parliament, as fully and as impartially as any Pro-
testant Member of the House ; but it was to be
remembered that the question was one of a very
extensive consideration as regarded the Established
Protestant Church; and it was, moreover, conceived to be
more expedient and more desirable—nay, to be acting
with greater delicacy towards the Roman Catholics them-
selves, that Protestants only should be put upon the Coin-
mittee, and by no means from any wish to throw any im-
putation on the Catholics. From these motives, and from these
alone, upon a subject involving an extensive Reform in the
Protestant Church, it was thought more desirable that

the subject should• be delegated to a Protestant Com-
mittee than to a Roman Catholic Committee, or a
Committee composed of both. If any gentleman
would take the trouble of looking at the names of
those who composed that Committee, he must be satisfied
that ample care had been taken that the feelings and opi-
nions of Roman Catholics should be consulted, and their
views amply represented in that Committee by their Pro-
testant brethren. He (Mr. Stanley) had thought it right
at once to state this, that it might not be supposed it was
from any accidental circumstance the Committee had been
composed, but from a conviction that the course taken
was much more likely to prove beneficial than any other
course that could be suggested. Upon that ground, and
that only, if a motion should be persisted in, which notice
had been given, to place upon this Committee Roman Ca-
tholics, he (Mr. S.) would feel it his duty to oppose it in
Coto. He would oppose the placing on the Committee a
Noble Friend of his own, who it had been said would
be proposed to be placed upon the Committee—a gen-
tleman than whom no one could he more unexceptionable;
but upon the ground that it would be a violation of the
rule which the members of his Majesty's Government had
laid down for acting upon on the subject, he would
feel it his duty to oppose the appointment of that Noble
Friend. He had now stated the views of Govern-
ment upon this question—the justice or injustice of the
line of conduct they had taken would have to be decided
upon by the House and by the country, but they had cer-
tainly thought it much the best way to put no Catholic
name on the Committee.

Mr. RUTHVEN, in allusion to the Committee which

had been appointed, said he much regretted it was not
so selected as to give satisfaction to the people
of Ireland. The Members of it, however respectable,
had so strong a bias, a bias which was so well known
in Ireland, that it was highly improbable that they
could give general satisfaction. Ireland had been repre-
sented as being in a much greater state of agitation and
tumult than it had in fact been—(Hear, hear)—he had
been in some parts where there had been no resistance

to the payment of tithes, and in many cases the clergy were
themselves unwilling to enforce the payment of them.
Although he knew that some parts of Ireland were in a
very disturbed state, still it was overstated in this House.
The people wished to see the titles placed under proper
regulations, and they conceived that the revenues of the
C,,urch as public property were at the disposid of the Le-
gislature. The people did not agree that tie tithes were
the private property of the clergy. He earnestly called
upon the House not to submit to intimidation, or to com-
binations, but to guard against such combinations, and to
place the revenues of the Church establishment upon
a proper footing.

Mr. WYSE said that the resistance to the payment of
tithes was rapidly extending. Last year it was only ma-
nifested in a small portion of the Queen's county, and in a
confined parish of the county of Kilkenny. But now the
principle appeared to be pervading the country in every
quarter from north to south. It should be remarked that
the opposition was shown—not against individuals, but
against the principle. Where the clergyman had excited
feelings of kindness, the people had not been backward
in acknowledging it. He knew one instance where a
clergyman, who for several years had been actively bene-
volent, bad recently been refused the payment of tithes.
Two Roman Catholic clergymen, however, addressed their
congregations, and having shown to them the benefit which
they had derived from the conduct of the clergyman, de-
manded of them whether they would not spontaneously
grant to him that which by law he had a right to claim.
Those people did subscribe the money required—they gave
it to the clergyman as a donation, but they would not give
it as tithe. With respect to the appointment of the Com-
mittee, he was of opinion that some Roman Catholics
ought to have been placed on it in order to satisfy tLe Ca-
tholic population of Ireland.
Colonel PERCIVAL rose to contradict the statement of
the Hon. Member for Kerry—namely, that all the Pro-
testants of Ireland were favourab'e to tie atrocious con-
spiracy against the payment of tithes.
Mr. O'CONNELL—I did not say all the Protestants of
Ireland.

Colonel PERCIVAL—That atrocious conspiracy was
fomented by those desperate agitators, who were the curse
of Ireland. If it were not for that conspiracy, the Roman
Catholics would be very willing to pay the tithes.
Mr. HUNT thought it contrary to every principle of
justice not to place Roman Catholics on a Committee.
Mr. SHEIL did not think that the Gallant Colonel
could have visited many parts of Ireland when he asserted
that the Protestants of that country were to a man dis-
gusted with was called the combination against the pay-
ment of tithes. Surely he would not say that the Pres- •
byterians of Ulster were strongly in favour of the tithe
system. The fact was, that in every part of the country
the impression against that system was hourly increasing.
He (Mr. Shell) was happy to find that none but unbiassed
and impartial Members were selected for the Committee.
Yet he could not help observing, that there were acting
on that Committee three Members for English Univer-
sities, and a Right Hon. Gentleman formerly Chief Se-
cretary for Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) To this Committee
there were twe questions referred—the one the collecting
of tithes, If hic ,• :- the Protestant department ; and the
other the -? .„, , i them, which was the Roman Ca-
tholic de,,, ; had formerly been complained that
justice was no , t ministered in Ireland, because its
administration elan, , rested with one party. Might not
the same complainerhe made Fere, when on a question of
fact some of those who had most interest in its decision
were not allowed to assist in the investigation ? It would
perhaps be alleged that the Irish were a suspicious people,
—he admitted that they were ; but what had male them
so ? Long continued wrong and grinding oppression. To
dissipate any such suspicious feeling, some Roman Catho-
lics ought to have been mixed up with this Committee.

Lord ALTHORP wished to say a few words with re-
spect to the constitution of the Committee. It was very
well known that prejudices existed on both sides of this
question, and therefore Ministers had selected none of those
who had expressed strong feelings on the one side or on
the other. They had selected a Committee, the Members
of which they believed were well acquainted with the sub-
ject, and were most anxious to do impartial justice;
amongst the Members of that Committee there were no
less than seven gentlemen who represented very large
bodies of Catholic constituents.—(Hear, bear.) Having
selected those Members, it did appear to him that it was
impossible for any one justly to say that the Catholic inte-
rest would not be carefully and impartially attended to,
in the consderation of this great question. On the other
hand, it should be recollected, that on investigating this
subject they had not merely to look to the feelings of the
people of Ireland, but to the feelings of the people of Eng-
land also. It was necessary to keep in view the senti-
ments of the Protestant population of both parts of the

empire. This being the state of the case, he would ask,
when the question under consideration of the Committee
was one particularly applying to the interests of the Pro-
testant Church, whether great jealousy would not be ex-
cited against the settlement of that question, if Roma❑
Catholics had been allowed to take a part in its decision ?
After a few words from Mr. C. PELHAM, Mr. WALKER,
and Mr. HOLE,

Mr. O'CONNELL congratulated the Right Hon. Se-
cretary for Ireland on the change that had taken place in
his opinions with regard to the nature of Church property,
and the power of Parliament to dispowe of it. The
Learned Gentler-win postponed his motion for placing the
name of Lord Killeen on the Tithe Commitee until to-
morrow.

Mr. STANLEY said, that his opinions with regard to
Church property had undergone no change whatever. He
had always Feld that it would be most unjust fur the Le-
gislature to interfere with the property of the Church,with
a view to converting it to purposes nut ecclesiastical ; but
he would at the same time always assert the power of
Parliament to regulate the property which the Church, as
a corporation, held in trust, and for the due management
of which it was, like every other corporate body, respon-
sible to the Legislature of the country.
The petition was then ordered to lie on the table, and
to be priated•