The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-18 00:00:00

if their party views were successful. His Nob'e
Friend had never altered his sentiments, or given on the
'roe band the smallest reason to believe that in his opinion
the just rights of the Church ought to be abandoned ; nor,
ou the other hand, had his Noble Friend ever uttered
a sentiment which could make it be supposed that
the just expectations of the people were not to he
attended to. The proceedings of the Committee con-
firmed his Noble Friend's declaration. Relief was
in the first instance, propsed to be given to the sutr,ring
clergy by the Government—the Government taking on
it.elf to prosecute the rights of the clergy. At the same
time it was declared—and this was the opinion of all re-
sonable men, it was confessed by the clergy themselves—
that there was no security fur the Church—no safety for
the Establishment, unless the system of tithes was extin-
tinguished. He was far from insinuating that the Noble
Duke, his Noble Friend if he might so call him, would
wilfully misrepresent what had fallen from the Noble
Earl—the whole course of his life, and his great stake in
both countries, would not admit of any man forming such
an opinion ; but he did entreat his Noble Friend to
consider whether he was promoting the interest of the
Church by holding his present language. The clergy of
Ireland, lie could assure his Noble Friend, would not con-
,,;der those their friends who male use of it. The clergy
of Ireland were grateful to the Government for what it
had done. If any body thought that the clergy were not
contented with what the Government had done, he was
mistaken. if Noble Lords would wait till they read the
evidence given by several churchmen before the Commit-
tee, they would find that there was no jealousy of this
plan, suit that it was the opinion of all those interested for
the welfare of Ireland that the tithe system could n,t be
continued. It was said that the laniliage was different,
and that both extinction and commutation had been men-

Coned; he had not seen any objectionable iltrase.s of this
kind. His Noble Friend had not used the word extinc-
tion, but the Committee had. The report of ths C ‘rumittee
used both phrases, both extinction and commutation. This
was a plain proposition, which he saw no difficulty in under-
stang/ing. Was it fair to state that the Government wished
to injure the Church, when it raised expects of putting
an end to daily conflicts between the clergyadd the people,
Intl when it endeavoured to restore peace? Would it
it,jure the character of the Ministers of -Gtitcles who were
en aiedin intepreting the word of Gisik'to tte people ?
orruld it injure the interests of tt_ree'-'Church to take
sAy these sources of conflict? Woslldt. nut the instruc-
itin of '46 clergy be more cordially received by the people
if thlirsisurce of dispute did no(exist? With respect to
the Government of Ireland, he wished that some facts
titre stated, some plain proposition Advanced, some proof
Men, that it had neglected to protect the rights of the
clergy. He begged that some instances might be given
of cotes in which the law afforded the means of protecting
the clergy, and the Government had refused its aid. The
Toet was, that by the rage of party feelings, Ireland was
torn to pieces. They lost sight o !er interest to thwart
every Government which did not gitself before one
or the other party. That was the feet '',,,vfitlieoe partiet.l-;
i,ut they forgot that ther‘ was a third party—the pinhs
of Ireland, whose interest demanded the care of illtepost •
vernment. There was the party of Protestant AscendasicV • . ,
and the party of the Democracy; and they were boat •;',,,,,,"'
isitile to the Government, which, for once, was iii(' .r 7,2;
apposition to both. This was the 'cause of the COM- j ' •-•
plaints made against the Irish Gent. There 4
teas no person more firmly attache all the best >'-' v
interests of Ir ' than the Mar9uls of Anglesea. •
If injury were o red to the clergy, and assistance
sere detneded, Ili was immediately and promptly
1!.
4iven. Let•illyirsLordships 100 at the evidence-before
tite CommVs4raitit not run away With vague notions, and .
they would-ifithe fact stated by personr•of different ,:,4,..
•rviks, that there was altilßion that the Cc:vernal&
woullsnot support /he clergy. 'But (hey have.no instancys'
.
in which assists ace not been given. The chirge watillagst,' •
she Governs:44V -notsupTmat the rights of the clergy : . s ,
Hit if their LorXhipinsould Mititoet,to,„lhe wild siwges- .
...t
tions of party.feelingthress nee, tisgswould find
that there -WaB4lo instance ' We' nmetit 'having ever
refused to Thr so. Ttr4. bad hea onsitch of lawless as-
socialions of the agitoitts," i lkivould inadertake to say
•
that there were otheifiasith tions stili.smore lawless...-.
(hear, hear.) .I'here sainhie.ia 'less Democracy Associa-
\
lion, and the lawless Ascendancy Association. The De-
mocracy Assisociation was wicked ,mischievous, and dan-
gerous. He had often looked a titwith apprehension ;
but it two mixed up, lawless as it was, with some real
Vievances. It might be said, why did the law not putt
dowli? The Jaw had been applied bui*tviettig not gi;-
beyond the laiv, and they must take awtq'the grievanoo,
lie saw some necessity for this Association; but without
itnputing any motives to the other party, charity even obligsti
him to say that they were the most senseless class of
Associations that he had ever heard of. He was afraid
of the former, but he could not possibly feel any respect
for the latter. One specific person had been pointed
out—a person of whom it was said the Government was
tfraid, and before whom the Government was described
to humble itself. He was the last person who could be
expected to panegyrise the individual alluded to, for he had
never hesitated to do his duty towards the public, though
it might be against that individual. In the fulfilment of
that duty, when he held a sitaatiin different from his pre-
..ent situation, he had institutets a prosecution against that
individual, and he could tell their Lordships how that
prosecution was defeated. It was defeated because, in
the spirit of thwarting the Government, the oppositt,
party took up the defence of its greatest enemy, and pNs
vented that public good being effected.—(llear, hear.)
He wished to tell their Lordships that it was not so easy to
catch that person within the law. He had carefully ob-
served his proceedings fur many years, and he would de-
clare, as a constitutional lawyer, that he bad only fount
one occasion on which he thought that individual could
_ ..

be successfully prosecuted. He was successfully prose-
cuted, and nothing but the expiration of the Act of Par-
liament prevented him from being brought up for punish-
inent.—(llear, hear.) With respect to the Government
not daring to execute the law, he would only say that it
did not dare to go beyond the law. It was said that the
Government had offered a place to that gentleman, which
was a report without foundation. :Much as he con-
demned the conduct of that individual, he must say that,
As far as he knew, the declaration formerly made by hit
Noble Friend was strictly true. The professional pur-
suits and professional reputation of that g,ntleruan were
so great, that nobody ranked higher. As a practical
barrister, his reputation entitled him to the highest
place. To indulge in angry feelings was nor, he
believed, the best means of conducting affairs to a
satisfactory result ; and looking to the situation to
which the general business of that person whuld entitle
him, lie thought it would be advantageous, if means
could be found, to disarm him of mit,chief. If the Gus,
vernment could not have done that, it would have been
acting a wise part to place that gentleman in a situation
where his opposition would cease. To that extent he had
been willing to go ; but to say that the Government had,
humbled itself before that individual was most untrue. Ht•
called then, upon the Noble Lord, to put his finger on any
act of the Government in which it had not supported the
laws. He was sure that the interest of the clergy had
been supported in Ireland, though the Protestants of the
North of Ireland had made some loud complaints. These
p -rsons called themselves the guardians of the public peace,
and they associated to put an end to the peace of the
country. He had looked through their proceedings—he had
ex 'mined their speeches, abstracting himself from other
usiness, and he could openly declare that he had not
found one intelligent proposition in all their proceedings.
They called out for protection from the law—they called
out to preserve the Constitution—hut they did not esta-
blish any infraction of the laws, or point out any remedy
which could be adopted. The Government was beset by
enemies on both sides.—(Hear, hear.) But time good
feeling of the great body of the people—of all the sound,
and intelligent, and sensible part of the population, wis
in its favour, as it looked to them for support. If the
Government did not show any favour to either party—
! if it at once protected the clergy and protected the people,
he had no apprehension of the results.—(llear.)
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM explained that lie did
not say that both extinction and commutation bad been
spoken of by the Noble Earl (Grey); but he stated that
the Noble Earl had not mentioned extinction, and his
',agues in the other House hail.
The E irl of CARNARVON could not but express his
surprise that such warm language should he used in a de-
hate which had grown up so incidentally. If the Govern-
ment were to act on the principles it professed; if it were
to pursue that even-handed justice the Noble Lord had
ascribed to it, he should be sorry to see any measure pro-
that
wheishilead the language of
pro-
posed for the public good opposed in linmine froin party
animosity. He could not, however, agree with the Noble
Lord, in ascribing that character to the Government; and
he could not help feeling that the language indulged in !
Y
the Noble Lord was calculated to alarm the already
ir-
ritated Protestants. The Noble Lord bad describedd themever
men more deficient in intellect than any he had
beheld.—(Hear.)
character to the Prote.t.ints;
in
one intelligible proposition.
their speeches he could not find,c
The Earl of CARNAR%O. was glad to hear any ex-
planation—(Hear, d PLUNKETT dleniebtul
I at' n (Hear, hear)—but
io
the Noble Lord had been more temperate. The Noble
Lord would not say the party of the Protestants were few,
lie had only saided tshuacth