The Sun.
London, England, 1803-08-05 00:00:00

On the queitinn for the first reading of ,this

,The LORD CHANCELLOR quitted the Wool.;
sack, and submitted a proposition to their Lord.
ships, which in some degree might he held to afrea
a Standing Order of that House. A degree of dif.
Acuity presented itself on the first view of this Bill,
which arose from the contemplation of a !Ong Stand.
ing Order which militated against a grant of money
being appended to Bills which went to provide for
other distina objefts. The Bill in question. had a
tWo.fold objet, the one was to arnelio,rate generally
the situation of that very ortitotious class of the
Clergy, the Curates; and the second was to create
3.. provision for sucbCurates out of the Consolidated
to a certain amount, as should be deprived of
their Cores in copsequenee of the operatiOns of the
late Att for enforcing kesidence. Such was the
gen' rat efTect of the Bill and with a reference to
the Order be alluded to, it had struck him in the
way he had mentioned. He thought it his duty to
make these observations ',However, it lay entirely
with the House' to decide how far the Btll, untkr
but h a coosidetation, was objectionable. .
The Earl of SUFFOLK expressed his approba.
tiOn of a' meihure which ,went to ameliorate the
condition of the Cutates, and lie hoped that it
would he properly carried into effect. BY the pre.
sent Law, he nnderstood, ;it was iii the power of
the Bishop to order a salary to the Curate ot 701.. a
year, 100 yet so far from this being done, Ise
knew nonyierless instance where the stipend did
eon eXeeekt 301. or O. With respect to ,the pro.
posed proVistun f tr the illonisi.ed Citrates our of the
Consolidated Fund, the Noble Earl seemed to en.
terrain no objection.
The Dike of lOkFOLK, after shortly alluding
to what hail fallen iron) the Noble Lord on the
Woolsack,' ropeCting the effect tif one rof their
Lordships' Standiog Orders, and expressing his Opi.
"thin that the Bill involved no question tat privilege
bet wt en tl:etwo Houses, went on to observe, that
by, the powers given under the Bill, to inerelse the
sripenthi Ott COT.I. V% to such an amount, the value of
such ailvos4 so c, &c. would be seriou'ly afkird ;
this, an a (petition of ilopert y, he thought me.
cited serious consid, rat t tn. l'he Noble Duke ati•
vetted to the I, c me of certain great Livings, „s
Wintliek, in LMICAShire, and a few whet.* in the
Isle of Ely, in which the scale, as he under.tood it,
would be so.high as seriiindy to have the eff:d he
mentioned. Hit Grace argued this point somewhat
in detail: it li,lng,.however, olyerved by some ot
their Lordships, that the Noble Duke had miscon.
cei, ed that part of the Bill, the same was vatt by
the Cielk, when it appeared, as we could collet},
that the highest stipend which the Bishop was bound
by the Dill to appropriate, was nob
,per annum.
This ,seemed, in some degree, to obviate iris Grace's
objettior.
. The LORD CHANCELLOR, in answer to
.what tell from.the Noble Duke observed, upon the
stature of
.the Lay Patronage, &c. the time was not
very retinae when such things were regarded in a
very different tight by the eye of'the Law, from
that in which` they were at present ; by recent de.
eisions however, and as the Law now stood, the
consideratituis alluded to by tirct:Nohle. Doke were
certainly a species of property, were in riots
of view, regoded as Assets, and were considered
As saleable even .as the ,corn.'sent to market.—
' This, In some points of .StieW, his Loe„lslity 6eem.
ed to nrtt,SiCtet, as nialt,er of regiet Ile ob.
e served' upon the limit prrserihed by the Bill, of 2501.
as the highest salary it e &Atop was hound to ap.
prop:tale, and to a certain s,xtent, must do
aw.ty the applicability of , the Njble Doke. In
answer to What tell from the Noble F.stt, he had
only to observe, that Certainly by the existing, law,
'the Bishop had a poster ot orikring a salary sit 701.
unourn to the Curate, but 1611 if was ohmio,
the Bishop would 11111',e a Milt litifigistentiti
of hat powtr, if he or& red the Lull all
cat s; f'r it Was well known that a nand" ut
benefices in this country %Ale SO low 75t„ of
Vol. therefore 701. a year Could
lit --conscience
he appropriated. to the Curate thereof, With
respeti, to a due carrying at the measure into efftd,
file Legislattne vi ere doing every thing in their powe r
for that description of the Clergy, it was impossible
however, to tie up the hands of `tarries ht) tfr
try tit prevent dick making pivot batgaios,. with
resped to stipends to 'he aditally pail for the
'performitece of dozy ; and this observation INOUlti
nvilly with still renter force, did the ant tint of
the stipeiltlii tut .00 high is the Noble Duke at first
seemed to think 44$ authorised by the hill,
srhe Emu, of suet o LK Fp, 1,,e explanntion, as
did the Duk,2 01 Nosxut.K, who °Witt ved,_. the

limit prescribed by the Bill, to a certain extent ob.
viated his objedions. His Grace reptNlted some of
his former observations respetting the nature and j
effed of ativowsons.
The Lotto CHANCELLOR spoke shortly in ei .
planation, atter\ which the Bill was read a first
time.
The Earl SUFFLOK rose, and said he had to
call their Lordships' attention to considerations of
the highest importance, inasmuch as more or less
they respeEted the general Defence of the Country.
His Lord Ship alluded, in the first instance to the,
state of the Army of Reserve, tespeding which he
had in vain made inquiries, while in the Country,
as to the raising, disciplining, officering, and in
fad, the means adopted to render that force.efficient
for its avowed purposes. One of his objedts in
coming to town, was to gain information on these
topics, and he expressed his hope of seeing Mi.
nisters in their places on a future day, to afford
the necessary explanations as to those points. The
next consideration which he adverted to, was the
appointment of a Military Council, an idea which
he believed he had the honour of originally suggest.
ins. This subjeCt he understood was recently
brought forward in another House of. Parliament,
and indeed it was one of that importance as to be
again worthy the serious consideration of their
Lordships. The third c.'nsideration was,.what had
been done by the City of London toward, the gene._
ral defence of the Corintry. . He had on a tonne(
occasion stated his ideas pretty much at -large on that
head, as to the degree of assistance the Metropolis
was capable of affording, and what it was iiicom.
bent upon it to do. He had received several letters
on that subjeet, one of which was then in his pus.
session, but he- would at this time only say, that
were , the contents of those letters true, which,,
however, he was then unable to say Whethei
or not, the Metropolis did not come fOrward at
it ought to do, and therefore, that blame :it.
tached to it. He was aware of the very aibraneed
,period of the Session,, yet he was so imptested with
the importance of these consider lola that he should
take an opportunity, before the Prt►toogation C Par-
liament, to bring forward those subj is again to
the consideration of their ;.Lordships, and to sub.
mit some propositions thetton.

The Order of the Day being read, for giving.
udgment on the Scotch Appeal, M4Lean gu, Be.

hope,

The LORD CMANCELLOR quitted the Wool.
sack, and addressed their Lordships at considerable

length. upon the subjett. Fie concluded wit mo. i gig
a proposition, tending in the main to reverse the
decree, and at the same time remit ling certain points
connected. with • the case -fur further consideration,
&c. •

The further consideration of the Appeal, Craw_
Curd v. Coutts, was adj )urned till to-morrow as
was that of Ogilvie v. the Carron Company, on the
special suggestion of the Len CH ANC.4 LLO who
a,,sigtied l.ts reasons for bliCle a procedure. Ordered
to be postponed until the first Cause day in the next
Session of Parliament.—Adjuurned till to.rnorrow.

HOUs F. OF COMMONS,
'rtiu
ithi? , Atlouta
tetml Amlie,rat's , AnnUity- Bill, the Wine Prize
Bill, and the Lavaca Army of Reserve Bill, went
through a Committee, and the Reposti were order.
ed to,he brou ht up to.morrow.
General MAIYLAND moved fat a nes. Writ to be
issued for. the elation of a Member for Kinross, in
the ra`m ot General Clepitane, who ha* accepted
the Office of. Governor of Grenada..--Ordered.
The ikeport of the Committee tin 44 Bell Rock,
Light House Bill, was brought up, and after a long
con% ersa 'inn between Mr. STANIFORTH, the LORD
MA`t,R, 41derman CUlals, Mr, WtNDUAM, Sir
WM. I'OLTENRY, and several other Hon, Members,
ow the merits of the Bid, and the Ameedments
read, the ,House. divided on an original Clause of.
the Bill, enforcing the payment of three halfpence
per ton on the Ships passing the Light House.
For the Clause . .
Against it . . . 2+
Ordered to be laid before the House an Account
of the quantity of Fish brought into- the London
Market for the three last years, distinguishing the
quantity of each yeaG', ,
The Irish Glebe 'l-I,iusi Bill passed through a
Committee of the whole House, arid the Report or.
&l ed tn'be received to.murraw.
The House weer into a committee on the Na.
tional Defence Amendment Bill,
The SioarrAzy 'at WAR informed the Corn.
mittee that he should propose some Clauses on the
third reading of the Bill to.morrow.
BRAGOB proposed a Clause to exempt a re.
ligious sett called Muravians from rite power oldie
Bill. He observed, that this body of religious
petsors Were'acknOwletiged by an Mt of the.pre.
sent King, and therefore entitled to the indulgence
granted to Quakers by the present Billy.
Mr. WILBERFORCI made several general re.
marks on the merits, of the Bill, and the nature of
the service it went to enforce, and observed that it
" was his wish that Ministers should not by the pre-
" sent Dill entirely rise sight of the }lower the first
Sill gives them, of calling out the full force of the
Country. He, however, had :no objection to the
Bill now tinder consisleratitin, but thought it his
duty to make a remark to that effea.
Mr. YORkE observed, that tle present Bin did
not deprive His Majesty of the,nrcessary power to
call out all his Subjritts. which the first BM granted,
him it only Wellt to allow His Majesty to suspend
the force of the Mt when the voluntary service was
equal to the exigency of the -times. The present
Bill, therefore, only goes to this, that if the Volun-
leers amounted to three-fotirilis of the first Class of
Persons Able to bear arms, His Majesty should have
diberethinary power to suspenthheather part of
rthe Bill. During the discussion on the former Bill,
the number of persons required by His Majesty was
not tocrittoot-d. He, however, had, no objection to
state, that the number of the
,VOlunterra already
produced was 240,000 being six times the number
, of the. old Militia. He thought ir, however, right
to repeat, that this dues not prevent His I\+ol

front increasing the \tolontarp Farce of. the Court.
try if it should be thought necessary.
Mr.WILBERFORCE ocplained, and observed that

he did not oppose th,e Bill, ,
The SECRETARY at WAR atliti, Mat die 29th
Clause of the first Bill precisely states, that His
Majesty can call out any number of persons, and en,
force the enrolment of all his Subjects,'
Mr. WINDHAM, after some remarks on. the
Public Prints, obsetved, he could not suffer the pre.
sent Bill to pass without making. a few obseria.!
titans on the' nature of the Force raised by the for.
mer Bill, which the present measure is intendedto

attend. He expedid from the letter of the Bill,
that, persnns Of every description were to he treat.
ed alike, and go out together in order to acquire a
knoWledge of arms to defend their Country. But
he tvas s ry Id observe, that persons formed them-
selves into 'Volunteer Corps upon the BAtile plan as
they had•done last
,War. The Bilt, therefore, had
not been carried into its proper Oreft ; in his mind

'the Bill intended that persons of every description.
should mix with each other in learning the use of,
arms, but now there were two specks of voluntary
service, that raised on the plan of the last War:' and
the one, now raising, Which divided the poor la.
pourer from .the man of property. He, for One,
had an objeaion to such a tdivision at this moment,
and consequently could not approve of the present
Volunteer Corps, while they were separated from
the lower orders of the people.
..

Mr. SHERIDAN said, that, after the mar), opi.
nions that had been given by the Right Hon. Gen«
tieman uron this subject, after the variety of semi.

ients which he had at one titneadvanced and at

another tetraded—after having wavered so Ire..
quently frotn one opinion to another, certainly some
allowance ought to be made for Ministers, who had
taken time maturely to, consider this important sub.
jeet bet.are they brought it forward, in order that
they might not fall into that inconsistency which
hid so peculiarly marked the language-of the Right
Hon. Geoileman. He wae'. he contessett, a little
to hear the R4OIEHon. Gentleman con.
Less that he had derived some, information from the
Public Press; but at the same time he did not expect
to hear`the Daily Papers now charged with being
filled with execrable stuff, because he was sure that
however high the public energy might be' at this
m :mend, however anxious all ranks of men might
be to stand tarward upon this occasion, yet he would
say, that to no quarter did the Country owe greater
obligations at this crisis than it did to the Pnbtic
Press. The Right Hon. Gentleman's indignation,
however, he supposed, was only confined to the
Daily Pipets ; there might he supposed, ohs
Week&
,Journal of which the Right' Honourable
Gentleman's opinion was wore favourable, whether
its' arms were employed in endeavouring ttiex.
cite Sedition in the Navy, whether it endeavour-
ed to run down Majesty's Ministers, at
whether it was,employed in exaggerating the dan.
gers,' or depressing the spirit of the People ; all
this the_ Might
,Hon. Gentleman did not, appear
to consider as execrable stuff; perhaps the Right
Hon. Gentleman's partiality to that Weekly Journal
might arise from his having some reason to suppose
that it occasionally received assistance from higher,
Quarters than the Daily Papers. He certainly spoke
of that Journal without prejudice,' because liesoM&
times found in it, observations of an adMitable
quality-.-(Here Mr. "WlNLittistst nodded assent.]--
The Right lion.,•Gentleman lie saw botwed, and
therefore he presumed, took the last observation as
a personal compliment
.to himself. The -Right
Honourable Gentleman had now changed his ground
of attack against this measure, and he now corn:.
plained that it would prOdOce too many Volunteersq
and his first objeaion was, that it was calculated
only to produce compulsory Force. There, was
indeed no species of Force which 'the Right Hon:
Geetleman had not attacked, except the Regular
-Artily. The Militje, the Supplementary' Matti',
the Artily of Reserve, the Yeomanty'Cavalry,.oe
Volunteers' had been 'frequently attacked by the
Right Hon. Gentleman, certainly not always, because
the Right Hon., Gentleman seemed to think, that
from long habit he had acquired a prescriptive right
of wavering—indeed it was ;aright which he seem-
ed desitous of entirely monopolizing to himself. It
Was stated by a Right Hon. Gentleman, whose
opinitio W.tis of great weight in that HouSe that
the Foree'to be raised 'under this Bill ought to' be
forrried into Companies, to be marched in case of
necessity to fill up vacancies-in Regiments of. the
Line and Militia. He by no means agreed' in this,
because it would-, in his opinion, defeat the purposes
''of the Bill. Many peopleivoUld be much astonish.
ed,;-Peers, Members of Parliament, Merchants, and
•
others, to fluid thetnselVes in one month converted into
common Soldiers; yet that was the case in that con_
struCtion of the Hilt; so that every man who was not
in a Volunteer Corps would be liable to be made 'a
common Soldier. ''This, he thought, was a pretty
good hint to iiieople to volunteer their services, and
lie liked the the better for it ; because no man
could draw a comparison between a Corps of Vo
lunteers, diseiplined and actuated by the spirit that
the Volunteers now were, and men drilled as thry
would be under this Bill. Let any man look at the
Volunteer Corps of Si, George's, St. James's, the
Westminster, and the other Corps of this f0W.11.,
and lay 'whether they were, not infinitelY superiOr
to meo raised and drilled under this Bill. The
Right Hon. Gentleman, howver, oislikedl Voltiniiir
Corps, because it would occasion a kind 'of sells
ration between different Classes; and had stated
that farmers and persons of that description who
were in
.Volunteer Corps, would not like to leave
their hurries for a long tittle. But the' Right Hon.
Cattleman must recolleft,,that in case of actual In.
vasion they would be obliged to leave their homes,
Whether they werein Volihiteer Corps or not ;
se quently the Right' Hun. Gentleman's objection
could have no weight. The Right Him, Centlzman:
then complained, of a disrin4tion in rank, but this
Bill made no such distinCtion, because if Country.
men and Peasants voluntarily enrolled tireirisOves
they would be exempted from the operatioii of this
Bill. In krge Cites, truth as London, Notting-
ham, Norwich, and others, if a large 'Volunteer
force could be collets(' without interfering with the
industry of the place, he thought it ought to be
referred, and, lit Would give no other teason Tor it.

A doubt tad liven entertained whether* when lig
°Ter or the Volumed. Corps was accepted, those
who composed it Might not be put _in the same
situation as itthcy had not entered the Corps, but
right
lmlCoi this
nnddt trinttlt
amendment
t had
it
al y
quid
the
eHouse
generallycompletely
o fdoneL o
ki
sao,tivvaann),.,
ihtcw‘atain:
equal
to the three-fourthsTtihe
nga l
first
to he
called out, and so superior in discipline, that' he
•reitilv hoped it would not be necessary to cam-
i:o iracses
echo
.ho neatly..v,,er :
t-ite Bill into area. The three fourths of the fine
class it was supposed would amount to 300,000, and
the Volunteer Force, exclusive of every other de-
scription of Troops, he understood amonoted
to
zBo,ooo men. He was convinced, however, that,
we ought not to suspend our (forts while aoythir4
i'etnained to be done ; we ought not to all Wilt
tt view to the present danger alone* bn,t most
rnok forward to the utmost calamity and disgraai
if «e re; xeti in our efforts. Our carts ought not
to he coined to ourselves alone, we ought to look
'to Ireland, and though every man must rejoice 'at
the termination oldie disgraceful scenes which had
happened there,. yet we ought to ad as if it might
became possible to send the whole. of our disposable
force to that 'Country. Upon all these grounds lie
was of opinion that no objeaion could be made to
the present Bill.

Mr. WlNDilifilf
negtiurpl etimnatnheacscutitsjetal h inconsistency ien ll'ats twhces and w
n,ti'ewavwaver-
of this Bill, he ought roltail
recolleded that. he (Mr. Wirsortass) I
eig-are. •
t . -
hit approbatioh ofVolunteer-Sery ice in gencralia
not of Volunteer. Corps. The Honourable Gill.-
tleman seemed to be actuated with all the zeal
of a new Convert, 'or rather he condutied
self with, all the precipitancy of a raw Recruits
for he had no sooner fallen into the ranks (Mr. Silt-
ittoan sat on the Treasury Beoch,) than lie firedog
Iris muskett without waiting for the word of com-
mand ; as the Hon: Gentleman however began, he
must not be surprised to find his fire warned.' If
it were even true that he had changed his opinion,
upon this Willed, ( srhich was not. the case,f it set
tainly would have been excusable upon a measure
so much importance, embracing such a variety of.
detail, and passed with so much precipitation. It
was. therefore not only possible, but very natural,
that Gentlemen might change their opinion upon the '
stibjed—But this would aff.rd no excuse to Minis-
ters. fur bringing forward at so late a period, or foe
making that the last measure which ought to have
been the first. It should have been recolle.deds
that this measure took up a great deal of dine
It was like the seven ages of man ; there woo
the notice, she motion for the Bill, the first, Sr'
c psi, anti third reading of the Bill, and after that
there was the whole of the detail of its execution in
theeouotry. The whole country wis in as great a
bustle as if it was a race or an assize-week. There
was. County-meetings, Meetings of Lieutenst4its
Magissrates, Churchwardens, Overseers, Sec. mac'
lhere was . the Tything.man and the Constable
,running to the Schoolmaster to read the Bill, the
Sehool.master going to the Magistrate to explain
it, the Magistrate writing to the Secretary at War
to elucidate it, and the. Secretary at War coming to
tliel-100se of Commons to amend it. But in ;11144
bu
leadsil sod ier
easlldir6nsfrtdOliy to seek honour , how
elongonwor nuild
theit
cbe
we a
mouth ? Whatever effed sill this might have here-
after, it would do nothing at present. Would it
be a goad answer if Bonaparte were to land, 0
say, 64 We have County.meetings, and balloting,
and drillings, and if you will have the goodness
wait a short time, we shall be quite prepared for
you ?" The Hon. Gentleman had spoken hieir
of the exertions of the Daily Papers ; theY,cr,r'
• tainly did contain some good sentiments ; he eel
wished they had began a little sooner, at least some
of them, and then,they .would not have no-se to te*'
pair the mischief which they had been doing for sir
many, years,. and which he was afraid could not be
repaired by a few paper bullets. It was notshow,'
ever, astonishing that the Papers to which he hir
hided should become the obj!as oi the Hor:mob°
Gentleman's panegyric, for they had exaCtly follow'
ed example.. After years of War, in veil
he and they had possessed opposite principles:
°'ofAs
held Opposite language to those of the insjo:
the Country, they now wheeled- shddenly.ah,;',l!
and claimed great merit for doing; their 'ditty."'"
After ten years of War, in which the 1-lontinrabl°
tier
l ;e),linxthtahinmaingdby his orations almost' set the foot;
IGsq::::;.:,d,nivre:itrs of the world on fire, he mitt; came at('
the
eoftd.tgratiou.
littley o
uish tnhlissb•
bucker,
itlyamt banlll sutee
The Han. Gentleman had aituded to a WerIJY,
Journal of which he Was. stlpposed ,to h +ye a
opinion : of, the perk,. ri who conduk;ted that J•IL, 031
he had a high opinion ion betore he kne W
tit
ilto
rull‘e'vl;;'atdlpierinhc4idp!de7 America ,
. ,
suppo,r;lng alt those, good prolciPlesitilm6lvl,;lll
h_appitte,s_ of mankin4 tleoesn•led;
Gent) man formerly professed) which tcodttl
the found 'thins of Civil Society, and to deStrof
1"/Ti'less' of mankind. was, therefore will'11;
fur untiorito
(including those whien the t
to coofess that he did enter twin a very high 01),_1.610/
of she person alluded to,' and he really tought t
he was tmitied to a Statue of Gold t.tr
lle then adverted to the distittaiott he It sd
taken, bet ~.veen Volunteer Corps and tit r'
eat Vo'hutliary Fotce which he wished to. s?':
forth; and added, that there was pottliitg
deprecated so much as that of seeing the '`.l',o
Force of the Country converted into Volaill4
'Corps,
tits
Mr. ssakipsi.V said, 1;e gia4
,
circumstance of the Hs:the being in a .C°l'l,loo.
enabled him to return thanks' to the Right_iii
Gentleman for the- compliment he had paid 'l','„-fset
supposing hilts to. be of sufficient consequeoc,..Y.„ss:
the whole world on fire—The Right
man had said, that he aEted with the zeal !coos
convert : He' begged to ask in what Was '''tsoleot
lie conceived his Country to be in
versed ? Was it a new line for him to tike' '
tc'6oo)
forward, uninfluenced by little party consider7xli
and without Calling out to be made a•l at 91, sit-
daogerp
Administration ? W. it new for-ilim I° be oiese4°
vocate for the Press ? The Right lion. 9Fn

had accused hinv,of the precipitancy of a raw re.
cruit, but the Right Hon. Gentleman was so-etsger
to return the fire, that he forgot to put a bullet
into his piece, for he merely heard the report, but
felt nothing. The Right' Horn:lurkle Gentleman ,
. certainly had a fine piece of artillery, which
he sometimes used with great efreB, • hut in general
was morelond of throwing squibs and crackers, Of
which he always had a plentiful supply in his pocket.
. The next complaint of the Hon.-Gentleman was,
that this measure was not brought,' forward soon
enough.; but this was a measure which could not
• be brought forward
.till the public Spirit Was iuffi.
ciently raised, and if it had been brought forward

Sooner, he was convinced it would not have been
received as Well as it was. The Right Hon. Gen-
f tleman'h ad .repeatedly declared, that there was no
spirit,
no etier& in the Country, and yet be cent_
timed ,Ministers for not then bringing'forward a plan
which:,cOuld only be received with pleasure, and,
executed with vigour, when the Country was sen-
sible of its danger and animated with spirit to meet
The Hon. Gentleman said, that the Country
was full of bustle,, that it rang with the sound of
preparation :—He was glad that it was, though it
' appeared to sound a little disagreeable in the Right
• Hon. Gentleinan's ears. He had asked what would
all this avail if Bonaparte were to come 1' He hoped
'Bonaparte would not come the sooner for that invi.
tation, but if he did come, he would find inaddi..
lion to all our regular force, z?o,000 disciplined Vo..
lunteers ready to receive him. The Right lion.
,Gentleman- however seemed angry that the Bill was
not longet- in the House, in order-that he might
have more frequent opportunities of doing that
which he omitted no opportunity of doing, viz. at-
tacking- Ministers, and censuring the Treaty ,of
Amiens. In fad, the whole system of the Rt. Hon.
Gentlerrian, was that of discouraging the Country,
anti making it )ay clown in despair. What were the
means which the Right Hon. Gentleman had used to
encourage; the Country ? First he said that .every
man ought to exert himself as if the safety of the
Country depended upon bin) alone; anti then, he said,
that every possible exertion would be useless unless
One particular person was Minister. That was one
mode of encouragement. Then . he said that the
Country had been ruined and disgraced by
the
Treaty of Amiens, and that we had 'nothing like
'glory to fight for. • The next mode of encourage..
merit which the Right Hon. Gentleman adopted,
was to tell the People . that the. Militia or Volun-
teers,were not fit to Contend against veteran Troops,
and,that we could only trust to a regular Force,
knowing that at that time our regular Force was
• mot so high as could be wished. He had heard of
treatises on Musk and upon Painting, but if the
Right Hon. Gentlenian was to print a treatise -on
the best mode of Encouraging the Country, he was
sure it would have the eftseet of throwing it into
despair, unless, indeed, Bonaparte should buy op
the whole EditiOn to distribute among his Army.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had,latmelted . out into
the praises of Mr.Colthet, and thought him entitled
to a Statue of Gold; he hoped that ahe 'subscription
for the Statue would be made on 'the Stock Exchange,
.and that part of that patriotic weekly journal would
be read to them, which stated that the whole of rite
stecks ought to be swept away, for that their exist.
cue was incompatible with the security
.of the
state. [Hfre, Dr. LA* R tVGe exroied tome dir.
aPProbat ;RAJ.] His Learned Friend seemed to groan
at what he had said, but he had stated it correCtly.
lit knew not whether his Learned Friend was TO
have any share in the ereelion of this -statue, if he
bad, he was sure it would be a Ca/cora/ one.:, He
cot,r4nied with again expiesiing his approbation of
the
Mr.. We SMITH said, lie approved 'of the Bill
because it, went to a
_general arming of the People,
and therefore any thing that took ofF from that. effed
he could not apllrove of: 280,000 Volunteers car.
tainly was a very great number, but then they were
spread over the whole •Country, and could not' be
bFnught to a single point lie wished therefore to
see the arming at the whole People go on as had.
been At first proposed.
_ Mr. ARCHDALE approved of the measure now
before the House,,,but observed, that if he were to
take dittaions froM Gentkinen on the either side
of the I raise he should tie at a loss bow to act, be-
cause there was among those GenileMen so much
variety of sentiment, that he could. not adopt them
all wit hunt abwlute inconsistency. One Hon. Mem-
ber (Sir FRANCIS ilitraurr) had propoNed as the
best mode of our defet;ce in the present crisis, to
xepeal all the Laws which have past in the present
reign, which was certainly a new, if not an effica.
clout mode of defending this Country, but orwhich
he would say
.tio more, because the Hoti. Member
who•proposed it was not present ; only he -could.
oat:.: hell+. in parting, from the sentiment, saying,:
coming even from the Representative of the
minty of IVliddlesex,' it was entertaining toug,ll A 5 to
ji.utt had-been published ;by' Mr. Gobbet,
b4ets so much extolled by the
Geoti • - WINDHAm he did
riot think that Gentleman ( . • ),
lion; for . they were entirely tree frorn objec-
tins i.e.', ,I.nl some parts of these publications,
Ireland with a certain number of troops, and sub..
due
it "pi •
• a Ills was mit of thee, doatine held • up to
Vilse
osvorld by that Gentleman, anti for which, in'
Pinion; he did not deserve to have a statue of
.gold serefted for him. This was not a publication
asyllieh niight be said to have for its objet iti'Make
fair statement to' the four corners of 'the. earth,' as
it hdd been formerly described, olthe 'condition of
our araits; but it was a statement, which might
aired the four corners of Ireland: To speak plain.
IY, he thought- that all. these general expressions
wire _ intended merely as, attacks upon Ministers ;
but he did not think that they were well timed, or
well direded. He might be said robe a supporter
Ministers; and upon that assertion another might
be built, that he was under their influence, 'and'that
he did not give an independent opinion. Now, if
al,' anw was said to act under influence, because he
"41 neither place or pension, nor ever was offe ed
any such, or ever intimated a wish for either and
that such a man was. not allowed to be
impartial, a
Which be hoped was not impossible to be deratood, r even in the House of Commons, WhY,
then be House
that-hs was nut impartial; but

until that Was made otit in argument, he shottlct
claim. the charader of an impartial Member of that
House. As to the conclu# of Ministers, Lie
not help observing, that the course taken by the.
Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wiztrbunivi) was very
irregular; if Ministers tnisconducled themselves,
why did, not. the Right Hon,- Gentleman .move a
proposition, signifying that they did .not possess
the confidence of that House ? This was, in his
apprehension, the right course. to be taken, since
the. Right Hon. Gentleman appeared to be :so en.
titely dissatisfied with these Ministers ; but .tu go
on day after day, to depreciate Ministers,
.and to
reprobate their -measures, and Sometimes even to
misrepresent them, was not, in his opinion, wise ;
on .the contrary h was useless.and unavailing, lie
asked what was the radical utility of comingiSor.
ward with observations; and distraffing thtbrtrmnds
of men from their true duty at this impurtanit,,crWs,
that of preparing to meet against the cornmeal gne-
my ; but the Right Hon.- Gentleman, sa,iB
ARCHDAI,s, expresses hiniSelf in a way which.l Jim
privileged 'to do (being an Irishman) which hn is
not—namely, that .we are now raising a. number, of
Volunteers against their will ; but I say that the
Volunteeti ought to lie encouraged, and that all of
us Shotiki go heart and hand together, and then we
should produce that which ought to be the effect of
Our united efforts, notonly consciousness of success;
but. also prevention of danger.
Mr. WINDHAM said a few words in explanation,
tending to spew that heiktill retained the opinion
he .had
.uttered with respeA to the Papers to which
he had alluded ; he did not wish ta..discuss that
matter now, but 'he certainly never gave the opi_
nion which had been attributed to him by some
Members of the House.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
it was with great reludance that 'he- prolonged the
discussion of the matter now before the Committee,
already too long ; and feeling as he did the impor-
tance of it, and the propriety of carrying, the prin-
ciple of the Ad. which this was intended to amend,
into execution, he should be sorry to fix on himAell
the imputation which, he' contended, attached on
some Gentlemen on the other side of the Ilt,uw,
namely, that of proteading the proeceilingl of par-
liament, in such a manner as to interfere very,umeh
with the necessary dispatch of public bu,ineSs..;
yet he could ;tot help taking some notice of' the
sentiments of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Wl.NOttitist). It was supposed that a wrong im.
pression had gone forth as to the purport of this
.Biil. It was to be understood that -the force.to be
raised tieder it was to be indefinite' in its amount,
and this was to be left entirely to she discretion of
the Crow n, and His • Majesty would, no doubt,
exercise his prerog.oice 'upon this as. upon .every
other occasion, with wisdom, and for the general
benefit of all his Subjects. That 'was the meaning
of the last Bill. This. Bill ..was not intended to alter
ter to touch that d'hcreticin in the Crown—it only
afforded to His Majesty power to retieve certain
descriptions of his Subjed!,, in certain cases, front
the rigour of the Bill, when that might be deemed
expedient, and to avail himself of that part of the
force of the.Geuntry . which . was mast immediately
etlicient, but ntlt to do away any part of the last
Bill. That was a subject on which he understood
there had gone forth a false impression : it was tie.
cessary to he understood that this.me ainre did not
lout His Majesty's uniMhbted plerogative of call-
iug on all classes of his'Sebjeds for military ser-
vice, in case of actual Invasioo, but it was merely
to empower His Majesty to• avail himself of the
,most eircdual force in the first instance, without
waiting Sur the raising of the whole mass of the
People being trained to arms. Another 'mistake
hid prevailed with respcd to the extent of the mi-
litary disposal of Volunteers, for they were not by
this measure to be drafted into the Regulars. All
these measures, however, might be 'superseded in
one event, that of adult! Invasion, for in 'that case
most indisputably His, Majesty had power by Law,
without this mt of Parliament, to call on every
one of his Subjeets capable of affording military set-
vicet and in that event' every individUal. in this
country. would he hound to go to any place within
she realm die King might think lit to order—all
this:however did nut render the system of
.accept-
ing the voluntary service of His Majesty't.gulijeos
improper—that was to be preferred to any other ;
but ,this system need not interfere with a.ny other.
plan that might be adopted, neither need the Corps
about to be raisedby Gentlemee in different parts of
the country be broken and detached, for at this mo.
ment there were many Officers who had offered their,
services, and which would be accepted, as well ash.
many more which 'lie had no doubt wapiti be
so, and which would, fires tattio, carry, into effed
the true spirit of this Bill—which. Was- that of
calling Ant° adion the true energy of the people .
(if, this country. The Right Hon. Gentleman( .
\Vim34o had both gratified and surprized him
to-night, for he had said, that this measure was to
save thiveoentry.from danger, stud fret that was
not the principle on which he had assented' to it,
when fifst 'proposed, for he had then said, that. he
4honiti not object to it because he thrieght it would
.do no harm ; but now it was admitted by the Right ,
Hon. Gentleman as a measure whichwould save this
country from danger. SUCH. from having that kel.
log on iiktforiner occasion Was the Right Hon.. Ge-
n ',that he spoke of it with coldness and with
Apathy, and at best with indifference.
'The Right Hon.
Hon. Gentle Man had -changed entirelr his opinion
when there'was not one point on which it .niight
,be changed, as-it appeared to others, for the inea-
,sure was the same at present as it was then in its
spirit ; but that change of opinion was Matter to be
reconciled by, the bight Hot,. Gentlernas,
nor should he endeavour to account for it ; but lie
could not help saying, that it the .Public entertained
as high a respell for the opinions of that Right
Hon. Gentleman as tilt:), did of his zeal,
much of
the doEtrine he had maintained in that House would
be dangerous to thii Country at this moment. Of the
Militia he spoke, until this day; with contempt,.
and in such a manner as had produced disgust in
the minds of the most respedabfe Officers of that part
of our Military Force; but all the objedions of the.
Right Hon. Gentle Man to that force had been an—
sWered in the best manner ill whic-li speculative.
reasoning can be answered,, by.the result if fads

IN eve* which ,-somi-,,Olise: did tOott- Oat*
land, especially proved the reil 'ialut-bf our Militia'
force. So` Much for the objt4!liont" of the Right
Hon. Gentletnan-to our militia foice,- and also for
his variety of !opinions on the DefenCe•• Biil ; but
then the Right Hon.. Gentleman recurred to his fa,
vourise top4coF late, that of iMpoting to Ministers
a taidines.!; io.bringing fOrWard this measure. How
did this accord with his opinions upon the subjed of
recruiting the' Regular Army ? Did he mean to say
.that this measure ought to precede the Army °lite.
serve Would he say thauthis measure; should have
been brought forwaid before the Regular or the Sup.
pleMentaty Militia ? He,Could hardly say so—The
Militia was deemed, and justly deemed, the Consti.'
tutional force of this Country, and its efficiency had
beeh abundantly proved in the late WarHd would
therefore:ask, Whether the ''tight Hon. Gentleman
thougltt this' Measure ought to l resorted to before
we had,rnade out the itetultrdilitia ?—Would be
previous to tdinti oftthit:Army. of Reserve ?
If that was his wish; why?dirilse not 'say so. He had
C-'abundant opportunity fonsrhat purpose—Did henot
dwell with:great ardour on the principle of our in-
creasing our Regular Army, which he said was the
Nuclera of our strength-in.case of Invasion, and the
topic constantly dwelt upon by the Right Honour.
able Gentleman was, that' We ought to con.
tintte•. drafting for the irregular into the re.
guiar Forces, • and he had Proposed that the.
• ages slrould be from . t 6 to 60, to which Mr.
A DDINTI-ON said he objeded, upon which subject .
it Rt. Hoo. Gentlemah (Mr.P.; ro• had delivered his
opini;in with the weight' that belonged to every
thing that fell frOtri him,' 4t id the age' was -settled
to be from IS to 55. This' Was on the first dis-
coision of the present measure, and he would ask
hoW it h:fpperied 'that .no such opinion as the Right
Hon. Gentleman had lately Alivered, escaped him
at that rime ? But after ad he would ask,' whether
; the .Right Hon. Gentleni..D thought that-such ainea..
sure as this could he oarried"foto efild without the
approbdtion of the Public as a matter ce.msonant to
their feelb.gs ; and did he believe that the public.
opinion and leelinA were in favour. of the mea_
. sure bebre the nece:,s`gity and 'propriety of it had
ben 1011 y explakq ed'ilibift.• 'lt was explained to
them, .tilt! he wal'haplryt,''its ;ti!k they folly approved
of it, • because they Were'ekiiiViiieed of its necessity ;
but tftis could not be done svithout tittle; and yet
Government had been accused of delay ; upon which
' he could .not help saying, that he never heard the
charge of delay exhibited against Government with.
Out feeling its' glaring• injustice,. nor was he 'urt-
fotioded in that feeling, for he knew the Magistrates
all over the Country who had to carry. the Mea-
sores of Parliament into execution, had been asto.
nished that any delay was imputed to Government
in bringing those measures forward, when the truth
was, that these proceedings came fpon them with
more celerity than they could, keep pace with :—lt
was a general complaint of the Magistrates, that
they could not execute the Legidative'provisions of
the latterpart of thisSessioo within the time allowed
for that purpose; so that Ministers.were so far Nom
being accused of delay •by those who were best,. by
practical' experience, able, to form a tort-eft judg,
ment on the subjeCt—nainely, those Who had to
carry their measures into execution, that they corn.
plained of the proceedings being too rapid. What.
then would have been the circa' of iill these.measures
coming before Parliament -at" once That question
answered itself : the execution 'of some of the mea-.
, sures would s:ive been inipradicable. Indeed he
thought the. Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. WIND-
frAM) I)ol.Ze.Op many subjt:is mast indiscreetly
in that'll:,use, ..should never cease to be of
opinion,•that the language of tit mt R;ght. -Hon.,Gen.
tletnan, during, the whole period which had elapsed
since the Message of the Bth of March last, had been
caleul teed (although he was permuted not intended)
to add to the hopes of the Enemy, and to depress
the spirit of the People of this Country. The
• Right I Itlll. Gentleman :Must be mortified to trod:
that an exultatiOn IQ the French tea; the result t►f
his opjoitAlS as they had been expressed in Parlia,..
meat,- and yet 'so it was. He was very far frond.
supposing that what the Right Hon. GsMtleman said
did not proceed from the purest motives i• he would
'go further and'say, that he believed oo persons nut
of too approved of the motives of dust' Itight
Gentlenun Who dissented from his opinions : he,
verily believed theitmli:t,,bttfiii, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman took a wrong standard of human
at!tio'n it regarded, else: People of this. Country,
that: war: to say,, he .meant to Wm k them up AO
their duty through the medium of .theit. fears,
which he maintained 'was an errorto'n os inciple to
guide the actions of the brave a nd free, such us
&Twirler) were. This appeared to hiM to be
the error to jutlpsdert of that' 'aright Hots, Gen..
tleinan ; and this hal led'him to say many
which had 'an efrA, and led hilit also to
censure the measnr.:i of Ministers, Which were not
fourided'on ; hut rho Right Hois..Gen.
tlethari wasi-ptirsui,j :t wrong comso, in perpetually
eomphaniog M.ssissers i4l. the .De.ll;s les of that
House.: rea:ly thought them, treat any-cause,
unfit for their aito oitss, he ought to move the
House for,, an Address for their Dismissal. If he
could sheW, that which had appeared abundantly
his wi,ll to shew, that alttfough there was now laid
•a foundation for a largerforse than, ever existed in
this-Comnry before, and that of a nature Much less
expensive, abd more effidieni for its defence anti
absolute security, and that in the course of be.
ing effectuated with.. M
an unprecedented erl-
'ty ; if notwithstandi4 all, this, and
nisters lia4 done 'every thing in their power for
the weifire aitheir Countri3,-yet if he was'olopi-
nion they were (for 'aisy rea-..c,n,}so matter what),
unfit for their stations„ .tiiiivoirtlT of •ihe confidence
of the King, which they'pOssesseLf. let him address
the House upon that subject, and. take the sense of
the House 'trots it, aid so that Matter would be at
rest As' fat as -it regarded Such Ministers ; lsut it
Wa'S a principle which he was
.ittcapable of compre-
hending,to endeavour to :withdraw, without a 'direct
motion, the confidence of tile HouseOf Cominons '
from those Ministers who had the confidence of the
King : and here he was under the necessity of talc-
jog notice of the language of that Right Ho-
.noutable Gentleman upon various occasions, and
particularly 'that -after the Treaty of -AMiens,
and before the ittiturc4—'.That language, Was

calculated to product 'that the lan:
guage he had iiniVersallY held- in that Hoo4 'as
caleUlated to tell the French; that such wag the ti.
midiry ni the Government of this Country; the
French might inttslt us with imptinity ; for. that the
Ministers of this Country would pin up with any
insult that might be offered to them ; that the Go.
vernor of France might make any demand he pleased
on this Country, for It was Stare to be complied
with 6 This, to such a mind as that on Widch this
language operated, had produced, or had COntributed
to produce this rupture, and had put us Into a state
of War, which, however, considering the views
and the objetts of France before •we entered into it,
he did not mean to say wass-a misfortune, compara.
tively speaking; with reference to other evils, and
this the Right ;Honourable Gentleman admitted,
nay
.insisted upon; for he had forcibiy impressed
upon the House. and
,upon the Public, the policy of
the presentWar—God grant it might'sooh terminate,
but that was not ratiobally to be expeCted while the
enemy had any thing to hope by continuing the eon.
test; which should certainly not end until it could
be so with perfeet honour to this country ; and it
could not be honourable to this country upon 'the
narrow view of its own exclusive safety or welfare.
--=God grant that the conclusion of—the cc nfliet
might soon take place; but still, if the Right Hon.
Gentleman really differed from His Majesty's Mi.
nisters—if he thought them unfit for their sta-
tions, let him address the House at once upon
that subject; but let him not on every occasion
which the forms of the House afratied, seize the
opportunity of holitihg forth .to the enemy that The
Government of this Como; is unfit for its ouri
pose; this was only to lessen the real energy
of the Country and - increase the confidence
of its Foe. On the contrary, while Ministers had
the confidence of the „King and of Parliament, for
nothing to the contrary of that assertion had ever
yet appeared, he thought they night not to be de.
rived of the cOnfidence of the Public. But it was
observable that }tight lion:Georlcman had An utter
contempt for every opinion but his own, ants he' was
Convinced that the general sentiments of the Right
Hon. Gentleman were iinprwßicable as to any ose-
ful °Ned, as far as they related to the political
situation of this Country in regard to.itS.Admit•i-
stration. If lie prevailed on the House to addie,:s
His Majesty to 'dismiss his present Ministers, he
doubted very much whether the wishes of the
Right .Honourable Gentleman would he gratified, if
he wished, as most probably he did, to torus'
those who were to succeed them, if it Was his
wish those who were most opposite to the prezrent
Ministers, for he did not lidieve that the Right
Hon. Gentleman would agree with all of them.
There was a greater incongruity of sentiment be.
tween that Right Hon. Gentleman and some of those
who had been his Colleagues, now, than there was
formerly ; how. then was the Right Hon. Gentleman
to be gratified ? by no means, unless his opinion
was to he the sole guidance of His Majesty's Coun.
cils, an event of which there appeared no•probabi.
lity, for if the question were put -to every person
in this Country, he believed, tb.it although almost
every individual. woulii approve of the motives, yet
few indeed would adopt his opinion, and therefore
at this critical conjuncture he did ,not think the
Right Hon. Gentleman was rendering hii Country
strvice by the course he was faking.

Dot/or L.IIVRENCE adopted the sentiments of
Mr, WINDHAM, and disapproyed ui the minticr in
which Ministers had conduittfd themselves upon
this occasion, and observed, That lie remembered the
time, when much of what had. been said to-night;
by the CHANCELLOR of the i'..XCHIQUER
have been deemed irregular,, because irrelevant to
the question before the House.

Mr. ALip‘ANDER, who was in the Chair, said
he thought the Debate, had taken somewhat of a
mote.general turn .than was stridly applicable to
the subject iminediatcly before the House.
Dodor LAwßitvca then entered :very, much at
large into the discussion .ref. the matter before the
louse, and approved throughout .of the sentiments
qf Mr WINOnAm upon this, and every other ure
sign, since the Treaty of Amiens.
The Bill, then pasSed through the Cortimittee,,
and the report to be received to-morrow.,

• The American Treaty Bill 'passed through a Com-
mittee ; report to-morrow.

Mr. AL vx Ar: rit broil :rht up the Reports of the
Stainp Con'it'cilidation' Bill; the Tortola Free Port
bill, The *Ccinsolidared 'Fund Bill, and the Ware.,
lt,tusihg Bill ndi;ch a CiAtise Was introduced to
save the p'rivileges granted to the Docks in Lon.
dun) which were severally read and agreed to, and
the Bill's ordieed to be read ►► third time to.morrOw.
The F►'oacign Notes Bill was read 'a second time,
and committed fir to.morroW.

The Mier, Biil':was read a third tine and paaaeci.
.Canada Ciiiirrs 13111 passed through a Corti.
iniftle'LL4he ItiPoii...reeeived, arid the Bill ordered
to be' reada third-time to.inorrow.

The Neutral hips Bill p.lssed through a Corn.
•
inittee, in wltiicli
.a Clause was introduced to extend
it to Ireland,- Report tn.tnocrow.

. In a Committee on the Assessed Taxes Bill, some
conversation took place between Mr, GARLAND,
Mr.VANSITTART, and the. Ctia.sic EL LCIlt Of the Ex.
ti EQD E R, respetling taxing Windows above a eel.-
tain width as double
_Windows, when it at
length agreed; on the proposition of Mr. VANS IT.
r.r, that the double duty should commence upon
tho)e Windows which exceeded 4 feet 9 iodic% ill
width., and 31 feet in height.

The Sugar Bill passed through a Cominittre.—
Report to.morraw.

Adjourned at half past ten till to-morrow.