The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-07 00:00:00

he recollected as if it were but yertet ilsy, when, night after
night, Hon. Gentlemen came to the House to ask for leave
of absence in consequence of the disturbed state of the
country. In particular, he rememb'red the Hon. Member
for Thetford, in a short speech, urging that the most vigo
roue efforts should be taken, and saying—" one little week
more, and the country may be saved ? but if we do not
act promptly, and if there is not force sufficient to subdue
the disturbed state of the country, I tremble for the dis-
turbed state of the country, and for the ave-ul responsi-
bility of the Government." His Right Honourable
Friend had then gone on to charge the Government
with a great augmentation of expenditure in other
ways. But let the House look at the way in
which this had happened. The expense of the Rideau
Cansl had been 336,750/.—.an expenditure which, whe-
ther right or wrong, had not, at all events, been incurred by
the present Government. Then there was another
item of 162,0001. for Windsor Castle and Buckingham
House ; which, in like manner, was an expense entailed
by the last Government. Another expence which did not
belong to the present Administration, was the sum of
438,0001., being the charges of the Civil Government ;
to which was to ho added the expence of the Coronation.
With respect to this he might remember, that last year it
had been stated to the House, that it was confidently ex-
pected that the expenditure for that ceremonial would not
exceed fifty thousand pounds, being one-fifth of the
amount of the previous Coronation of George IV. When
that statement was made to Parliament, he believed that
some gentlemen were fearful that the smallness of the
amount would lead to a ceremonial unworthy of the Ina-
portanae of the occasion ; while others expressed their ap-
prehensions that the sum named would not be adequate to
cover the expence. He was, however, happy to think
that those who had attended in Westminster Abbey had
felt that there was nothing deficient in the way of proper
respect to the dignity of the Crown and the honour of the
country ; and it now afforded him great pleasure to be able
to announce, that on the estimated 50,0001. there had been
a saving of 7,0001., the sum of 43,0001. being the
whole expenditure on the occasion.—(Cheers.) In ad-
dition to these instances, the Government had last year
paid 27,0001. for by-gone law expenses in Ireland, and
16,000/. for a service that was not likely again to
occur—he meant the compensation money that had
been paid to Messrs. Lecesne and Escoffery ; from
all which it would appear, that instead of there being
a deficiency of 600,000/., as stated by his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. G. Dawson), the gross amount of these
extra charges was no less than 1,030,000/. under the
head of items, not in any way belonging to the ordinary
expenses of the year, and with the greater part of which
the present Government had nothing at all to do. The
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dawson) had alluded to the
reductions made by the former Government. He admitted
that the former Government made very considerable re-

ductions, but that was one of the reasons why the present
Government was entitled to greater credit, inasmuch as
their reductions were made in a more limited field than
that possessed by their predecessors.—(Hear, hear.) He
would tell the Right Hon. Gentleman, however, what
were the reductions made by the present Government.
They had not applied themselves, in the first place, to the
cutting off the salaries, or reducing the offices of the lower
grade of public servants. They bad, at once, applied their
reductions to four great Parliamentary offices, the abolition
of which materially affected the influence of the Crown.
.--(Hear, hear.) They had abolished the office of Vice-
Treasurer of Ireland—of Lieutenant-General of the Ord-
nance—of Clerk of the Deliveries of the Ordnance—and
of the Postmaster-General of Ireland.—(Hear.) They
began, as he observed before, with the higher offices, just
as the House itself began by removing the Government ;
and, having abolished those Parliamentary offices, they then
proceeded to the lower and less important. He held
in his hand a list of the offices reduced, and he would
read a few of them for the satisfaction of the constituents
of Hon. Members, even at the risk of fatiguing the House.
They had reduced the Auditorship of the Civil List, the
Treasurership of the Military Gollege, the Treasurership
of the Military Asylum, the Resident of the Post-office,
and sixty smaller offices in the Post-office in England and
Ireland ; the King's Stationer in Ireland, two Commis.
sinners of the Navy Boatd, two of the Victualling Board,
the Superintendent of Transports, the Paymastership of
the Marines, and seventy•one persons connected with the
Dock-yards receiving salaries from 6001. down to 601. a
year ; they had reduced one Inspector of Stamps in Cum-
berland, and one in Lancashire, connected with Man-
chester; and they had reduced one Receiver-General in
Scotland, and forty-six persons connected with the collec-
tion of the revenue in England, besides two hundred and
ten other places—(Hear, 'near)—and all this was done be-
fore the end of January, they coming into office in the
month of November.—(Hear hear.) That, he hoped
they would allow, was something done in the way of

econotny and retrenchment. Then came the question
of their own salaries—(" Hear, hear," from the Op-
position)—and the House would find, without going into
details, that taking the whole of the amount paid to the
higher offices at 143,000/., they had reduced it by the
sure of 21,0001., or nearly one-seventh of the whole.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say that their prede-
cessors had not effected many reductions worthy of praise,
but he called on the House now to give its support to
those who had proved themselves earnest in their endea-
vours to make the greatest possible retrenchments in every
department. Going on with the list of reductions he
found that they had reduced the expences of the emhassy to
Prance and Russia 1,100/. each, that to Portugal 8001.,
'turkey 5001., the Netherlands 600/., including the ex-
. .

Pence of two special missions ; the United States 6001.,
making in all 7,200/., in addition to 5 000/. saved from
the expenditure on Consuls.—(Hear, hear.) Acting on
the suggestions of the Committee on civil charges, th.-y
had also reduced the salaries of many public officers, and
struck off the sums paid to others. Among these he might
mention the payments made to the Law Officers of the
Crown, the King's Serjeants, the Attorney and Solicitor
neral, :ind the King's Counsel.
Sir CHARLES WETHERELL—Yes, fifteen pounds a
Year. --(Hear, and laughter. )
Mr. RICE—It was dune in compliance with the recom-
mendation of the Committee. Acting under the same sug-
gestion, they had taken 2,000/. a year from the salary of
the Lord Chancellor of Ireland.—(" Hear, hear," from the
Opposition.) They had abolished seven offices connected
With the Lord Lieutenant and Dublin Castle ; six others,
also connected with the Castle, had been materially reduced.
They had abolished two Cotnmissionerships of Excise in
Ireland, two Commissioners of Stamps in Scotland, and,
in addition to this, 2001. bad been struck off the salaries
of all Commissioners of public Boards by the present Go-
verninent—( licsr, bear)—while the expence of the Hack-
ney Coach office, amounting to 5,524/, had been got rid of,
and 6,600/. had been saved in the departments connected
with the colonies.—( Hear, hear.) Having thus stated
what had been done, and wishing that the Government
should, in its claims to the character of economy, be esti-
mated more by what they had done than by what they
promised to do, he would just allude to a few of the reduc-
tions which were in contemplation or in progress. In the
long-room of the Custom-house, the changes in contem-
plation would have the effect of saving 13,0001. of fees in
an expence of 46,00.0/. to the Wilk:, while the saving of
the Government will be 3,000/. ; and among other savings
connected with the reductions of brigade majors and

tary establishments, there was one which he was sure his
Ffiend the Member for Cricklade would hear with
much pleasure, and that was, that immediate measures
would be taken for getting rid of the expence of the Go-
vernment of Dartmouth.—(Hear hear, and a laugh.)
There were also large reductions contemplated by his
'light Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland, which he
Would not then touch upon, because they would be fully
detailed in the estimates. If there were any who were
disposed to taunt them with not having done more, he
Would say to them that they had not left the Government
the time to do more—(Hear)—and he would ask those
gentlemen on the opposite side, who night after night oc-
cupied the time of House with discussions on the Reform
whether even with the objects they had in view, it
wiould not have been possible for them to have achieved
tuelin all in the course of three week, instead of the months
of delay which had already taken place?—(Hear, from the
Opposition.) He had only to observe, in thanking the
}louse for bearing so long with the details he found it ne-
cessary to bring before it, that admitting the statement of
the Right lion. Gentleman, that t ere was a deficiency
of 161,0001. in 1827 (and he believed that statement to be
csrrect,) still the sum of 121,0001., which, after all, was
the thole amount of the deficiency of the last year over
tuis deficiency of 161,0001. to which he had alluded, was
Fore than compensated by the reduction they had been
able to t ffect on the subject of tallow candler, the duty
on which, and other articles more exclusively used by the
Pour, it was the bounden duty of every honest Government
to
dispense with as soon as possible. The Right Hon.
f-
`?entleinan concluded by again expressing the determine_
ton of the Government to apply itself honestly and fairly
f: 4 reduction of the expenditure, and sat down amid cheers
the Opposition.
Mr, A. BARING thought that the Right Hon. Gentle-
Flai who had read a lecture to the House on the subject of
:4tt conduct with respect to the Reform Bill, would do well
o move for a Committee to inquire whose amendments
aal Whose suggestions and alterations had produced the
d",:11f. of which he complained, and which bad stopped the,
I carter of economy sod retrencbment,—(litar, bear.)

With respect to the comparative economy of the two Ad-
ministrations, on which the Right Hun. Gentleman (Mr.
Rice) had dwelt so much, he (Mr. Baring) thought it un-
necessary to enter into the question of which was the most
economical; but, giving all praise to the present Govern-
ment, which seemed to have amply fulfilled its duty to the
public, in that respect he would merely remind them, with-
out entering into details, that the Government af the Duke
of Wellington had either reduced or abolished aboae four
thousand offices during the time it remained in power.--
(Hear, hear.) It must be known by every man acquainted
with such matters, that extensive reductions in an expen-
diture extending through so many branches were not to
be carried into effect in a day, and that therefore very
considerable gleanings were necessarily left to their suc-
cessors. The only question was, whether they were not
going rather too far, and whether some of the cuttings
down in the subordinate departments were not effected
at the expence of their efficiency ?—(hear, hear.) The
Right Honourable Gentleman bad alluded to the recom-
mendations of the Committee on Civil Charges, of which
he was Chairman. He could only say, that many of
the reductions which had now been carried into effect
were at the recommendation of that Committee, and that
if all their suggestions had been carried into effect be
thought there would not be at the present moment a single
Government-servant overpaid or unnecessarily retained :
and he trusted that the Members of the new reformed
Parliament, which would, he trusted, be composed of
many of those he saw around him, would have the man-
liness to do justice to the labours and intentions of their
predecessors. While, however, the Government took so
much credit for its reductions, it was strange to see it vote
away five millions for the Russian Dutch loan with
scarcely the shadow of a consideration.—(Hear, hear.)
He was quite sure when the Noble Lord at the head of the
Treasury came to look calmly and impartially at the un-
constitutional nature of the proceedings with respect to that
payment, that he would see the propriety of a revision of
the whole matter, even although he might be upheld by
a still larger majority than any which that House had
shown itself willing to lend for the advancement of the
views of the Government.—(Loud cries of " Hear,
hear.") Adverting to what had fallen from the Right
Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade (Mr. P. Thomson), he (Mr. Baring) must say, he
had never beard a speech in that House from any gentle-
man holding the same situation, in which there was
such a deficiency of those facts and figures which one
naturally looked for from the bead of the Board of
Trade. The Right Hon. Gentleman had made the
better pert of his speech an attack on his opponents, instead
of confining himself to those matters of business which
more particularly formed the subject of discussion ; and he
(Mr. Baring) must say, he thought the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman might as well have left his squibs and his jokes to
anybody else than the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade on such an occasion.—(Hear, hear.) He had, in
truth, never heard in that House anything more loose than
the business part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement.
—( Hear.) The Noble Lord (Althorp) stated, if he un-
derstood him aright, the tot►l deficiency of the year was
700,0001., but he expected next year there would be
40,0001. remaining duty on candles, and 75,0001. of the
remaining duty on coals, which would go to make up the
deficiency. Without, however, going into all the items,
he must say he entertained very considerable doubts on the
propriety of the Noble Lord's expectations with re-
spect to the 375,0001. of duty on cotton-wool. The
whole of the duty on cotton wool and sheep's wool
produced together 482,0001., and how the Noble Lord

could calculate on an increase of 375,0001. in the next
year, he was at a loss to imagine. He must say he con-
sidered this tax on the raw material a most objectionable
one and calculated to be mischievous to our manufactures.

—(Hear, hear.) Tr.a consequence was, the Americans
were rapidly gaining on our manufacture of coarse cloths,
where printing and pattern were out of the question; and
he understood from good authority, that they were
already competing with tut in many of the ports of
the Mediterranean. He would suggest to the Noble
Lord the propriety of allowing a drawback on the expor-
tation of the manufactured article, if he was determined
to retain his duty on the raw material. The tax raised
on the home consumption was not felt, and was much the
least injurious method of raising the revenue. In addi-
tion, however, to other sources of increased revenue, the
Noble Lord might in a year or two anticipate much ad-
vantage, looking at the value of money, by making a bar-
gain with the Bank on the renewal of ins charter. He did
not wish to drive a hard bargain, but if be thought if the
Noble Lord was to move for a Committee now, he would
be in a better condition to realise his views and fulfil his
promises to the country. The purpose, however, for
which he rose was, to protest against the manner in which
the financial affairs of this country have been concluct,d'
since the, peace. First, they had a sinking fund of
8,000,0001., then it fell to five, to four, to three, and now
they had none at all; but, on the contrary, a deficiency of
700,0001. ; which the Hon. Member for Middlesex wished
might soon be a million ; and if things go on as they have
done, he was likely very soon to have his wish.—(Hear,
and a laugh.) He trusted that some time or other the
country would have a Government bold and honest enough
to take a manly tone on the subject of the National Debt,
with a view of providing some means for the peaceable
and effectual redemption of the people from its weight.
He hoped to see a Government which would adopt
that honest and straightforward course, in prefe-
rence to the skulking, cowardly, and disgraceful plan,
followed by all Governments since the peace, of esta-
blishing their reputation on petty reductions and miserable
expedients instead of trying to master the debt. He enter-
tained not the slightest doubt, that if the Parliament and
the people of this country could have imposed upon them-
selves even a moderate degree of self-restraint, the debt,
instead of being of its present enormous amount, would
have been in a fair and promising course of reduction. If
the sinking fund, so judiciously created for the liquidatio❑
of the public debt, hail only been preserved to the present
moment, we might have looked forward at no distant time
to see a considerable portion of the debt reduced, instead of
being, as they were, in utter despair of any approximation
to such a state of things. Had that degree of restraint
been exercised which our circumstances called fur, the
debt would now have been assuming the shape of a limited
annuity ; but now it was becoming nothing less than a
perpetual annuity. In making these observations, he
begged it to be understood that he meant not to cast any
special or individual blame upon the present Adtninistra-

tine ; for every successive Government but yielded it-

self too readily to the unreasonable demands which
put a stop to the progress of the sinking fond.—
( Hear, hear.) Each party which succeeded to power

. . .
but tno readily gave the desired answer to the question
" What will you de for the people?" No person who

came into the Councils of the king seemed able, for a
moment, to resist that demand—no Government could
stand it. How gross was such an error ! Nothing could
be more obvious than that the people were as much inte-

. .
rested in an efficient sinking fund, which would remove de-
cisively and permanently the weight of taxation, as they
couldVossibly be in the removal of immediate and tempo-
rary pressure. The example of the United Srates' Go-
vernment ought to stand before our eyes, which by a per-
severance in the system that we unthinkingly and iinpro
vidently rejected, were now in a situation which presented
the close prospect of the total removal of debt. He was

perfectly aware that the sentiments he was expressing
were unwelcome in that Hou*e, and unpopular out of

doors ; but he trusted that the liou,e would recollect that
he had ever been consistent; that he had seldom supported
the repeal of any tax, fur there was scarcely any instance
in which he thought the circumstances of the country

could at all justify such measures ; as, in his judgment, the
first duty of the House and of the Government was, at all
haz irds, to support the credit of the country ; and as the
most effectual means of doing so, to continue the existence

of our efficient sinking fund.
Mr. T. DUNCOM BE really thought those who the
other night gave a vote in support of Government might
have been spired the lecture which the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman who last spoke had thought proper to read them.
He thought it due to himself and the other independent
Members of that House, who formed the majority on the
occasion to which he alluded, to declare that be never
witnessed a greater violence done to common sense and
reason, than had been done by the lecture which the
House had just heard.—(Heir, hear, bear, from several

parts of the House, but from one Hon. Member in a very
marked manner.) He was not accusing that Hon. Mem-

her of any thing like sense or reason.-J-(Great laughter.)
He must readily admit that they would have had but small
claims to common sense or reason,if they could doubt for a
moment the truth or justice of the lecture which the Hon.
Gentleman had thought proper to read them. He, for
himself, begged, once and fur all, to deny its application
or ju.tice. Many Hon. Members were induced the other
evening to support the views of gentlemen opposite by
the speci•ius professions of economy and retrench.
ment ; nothing could have been more alluring or more
dextrously managed than was the motion of the Right
Honourable Member for Harwich—it was a deep-laid
scheme to trip up the Government, and it was with
great regret that be saw the friends of economy fal
into the trap which bad been so artfully baited for
them. It was obvious to a majority of that House, and
he believed now to a very large majority of that House,
that those Hon. and Right Hon. Gentlemen came forward
with economy on their lipe at a time when nothing was

flirt! er from their hearts ; they stood before the House
with a proposition on the Russian-Dutch loan in their
hands, but with the dread of Schedule A before their eyes.
They had talked much of the necessity of supporting pub-
lic credit; but, in his humble judgment, the truest mode
of supporting public credit would be to maintain its ho-
nour abroad as well as at home, and not allow it to recede
from the position it had hitherto maintained in the scale
of European nations. On those grounds he was prepared
to justify and vindicate the vote he had given " there or
elsewhere"—(A laugh)—he meant to say either in that
House or before his constituents. There was no vote
which he gave in support of the present advisers of the
Crown which it was Rot in his power to look back upon
with pleasure. As to the question or discussion with
which they were then engaged, he thought he might ven-
ture to affirm, that no man could complain of the fair,
honourable, and manly way in which it was brought un-
der the consideration of the House ; and he anticipated
that, in the minds of all impartial Members, it would be
regarded as alike honourable to himself and calculated to
give satisfaction to the country.—(Hear, bear, hear.)
Mr. HUNT contended that the expenditure, instead of
being diminished, was rather increased under the present
Government.
Mr. ROBINSON was understood to complain that now,
after sixteen years of peace, the revenue of the country was
700,0001. below the expenditure. An Hon. Member on
that side of the House had seemed to advocate the continu-
ance of the war taxes, collected under circumstances when
the resources of the country were widely different from
those in which it was now placed. He seemed to contend
that the repeal of the taxes of which he so much disap-
proved was a voluntary act on the part of each Adminis-
tration which had adopted any such measure of that nature.
Did he overlook this important fact, that taxes were scarcely
ever repealed until their collection became impossible?
Not that that derogated from the good intentions of the last
or the present Government : he gave due credit to both. He
was net insensible to the services of the Noble Lord oppo-
site, or the reductions which had been effected, and pro-
posed to effect ; but yet it was all the while made conso-
lation to the country to learn that it could neither raise
its revenue nor decrease its expenditure. Ti.e subject
with which they were engaged was one of great import-
ance, but unfortunately that might be converted into a
party squabble, which would prove but little satisfactory to
the country.
Sir C. WETHERELL and Sir R. PEEL rose at the
same moment, but the latter gave way. The former said,
that he wished to interpose a parenthesis between his
Right Hon. Friend and the next speaker. He had not
risen for the purpose of making observations similar to
those which had fallen from the Hon. Member for Thet-
ford ; but though he had no intention of imitating, yet he
might be allowed to pronounce some opinion on the
speech which he had made; and of that he would take
leave to say, that instead of being condemned as a lecture,
there was not a remark contained in it that was not per-
fectly just, and in all respects deserved ; for the conduct
to which it alluded was one of the most daring breaches
of the privileges of the House of Commons that he had
ever known committed. The Noble Lord had intimated
to them that he should find it necessary to introduce an
Act of Parliament to legitimatise the affair of the loan.
How would those Members look who found themselves
called upon to support that Bill, when they remembered
their vote of the other night pronounced that the pro-
ceeding was in itself legitimate, and stood in no need of the
sanction of an Act of Parliament ? Would the Ministers
call upon their friends to blow hot and cold ? Honour-
able Members opposite had talked of falling into a trap;
but he rather thought it would be found that the supporters
of Ministers bad fallen into a trap which their leaders had
prepared for them. There was a question which he wished
to put to the Noble Lord opposite. Did lie mean to intro.
duce two Bills or one ? In his (Sir C. Wetherell's) opi-
nion a second Bill—one of indemnity—might not be un-
necessary. Surely it must be very much opposed to the
feelings of the Noble Lord to call upon the Law Officers
of the Crown to eat their own opinions. When the Bill
of Indemnity was brought in, he should carefully look to
it' preamble and details for an explanation of the grounds
on which it rested. The Minister had himself confessed
that his majority on the subject of the Russian Dutch loan
had been dragged through the mire. The Noble Lord
(Althorp) shook his head : he did not agree in that propo-
sition; but of this he (Sir C. W.) was sure, that many
in the House and in the country would concur in it. He
asserted, that that Government was acting disgracefully
which first compelled a majority to vote that Parliamentary
aid was not necessary, and afterwards compelled the same
majority to vote that an Act of Parliament must be brought
in.—(Cheers.)

Lord ALTHORP said nothing about the necessity for
an Act of Parliament ; he had stated only that the actual
separation of Belgium from Holland had so altered the re-
lative position of the parties, that a new convention was
necessary, which in due course would be laid before Par-
liament.

Sir R. PEEL began by observing, that he should not
be diverted from examining the real state of the finances
of the country by the excursive speeches of the two Right
Hon. Gentlemen opposite, the Member for Limerick and
the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. He doubted
much if the people out of doors would be satisfied on a
question of this sort with crimination instead of explana-
tion. He admitted at once that it could form no just
ground of charge against a Government that a preceding
Administration had m ide such large reductions that the
scheme of economy could be carried no farther ; though
he was justified in taking that acknowledgment by the
other side as an acquittance of the Government of the Duke
of Wellington, and an answer to all the reiterated and
groundless accusations of extravagance and want of sym.
pathy with the sufferings of the people.—(Cheers.) The
Right Hon. Member for Limerick said, " Only give us
time, am' we will nevertheless make farther reductions"
So had said the Government of the Duke of Wellington
_ _ _

and if time had been allowed, the people woukl have found
That the list Alinistry, although they might talk less

about it, was at least as anxious to save the public

money as the present.—(Cheers.) The Duke of Welling-
ton's Cabinet had not made all the reductions at once,
because it thought that this species of Reform, like

others, to be safe, ought to be graditil.—(Hear, hear.)
It was certainly to be regretted, that when, after it

had appeared that the last73linistry had done so much

that their muccessors could do nothing more, un

just accusations, founded upon a supposed want of
economy and sympathy, should have been used to inflame
the public mind against a House of Commons which had

shewn that it was not inattentive to its duties, and not

unwilling to relieve the public burdens.—(Cheers.) He
denied that the debate upon the glove manufactures, from
the division on which be was absent, had anything to do

with the question of free trade, and leaving such mere

criminatory matters, he would take for his text the very
fair and clear statement of the Noble Lord (kthorp).
That Noble Lord had allowed his mistake of 350,0001. on

beer, and the frankness of that avowal disarmed all hosti-

lily, although he (Sir IL Peel) might venture to express
a hope that the accuracies of the present year would com-
pensate fur the blunders of the past.—( Cheers and laughter. )
The Noble Lord had admitted that in his precipitate state-
ment in October he was mistaken, both with regard to
the past and the future; but the real charge against the
present Government was not its casual Inaccuracies, but
that the Noble Lou] having discovered his mistake, hal
not openly acknowledged it at an earlier period, and before
a paper, which would make it obvious, was moved for by
an opponent. For that delay, he must in candour say the
Noble Lord had not sufficiently accounted, nor for not hay-

ing laid on the table the estimates for the year, in confor-
mity with a resolution of the House. The Noble Lord bad
stated the deficiency of the present year at 695,0001., and
expressed his confident belief it would not exist at the close
of the approaching year; but did the Noble Lord recol-
lect that next ye it there would be a loss to the revenue of
between 4 and 500,0001. on candles ? Nevertheless the
Noble Lord, by his mode of calculating, made out that at
the close of next year there would be a surplus of only
162,0001. This prospect, considering the state of Europe,

. .
and the state of the country (and if that state led to greater
domestic expenditure, it should meet with no opposition
from him), instead of being satisfactory, was to him (Sir
R. Peel) melancholy. The principles avowed by the two
Right Hon. Gentlemen (Mr. S. Rice and Mr. P. Thom-
son) were, however, much more alarming than the ad-
mitted deficiences of the Noble Lord. They said that, at
all events, the people had been relieved ; and that whatever
might be the distress of the State in consequence, the coal
duty hail been repealed. Did not these two Right Hen.
Gentlemen (who were not only Arcades ambo, but on all

Occasions eantare parati, although their friends might
not he so glad to hear them) recollect that the same argu-
ment would apply to every tax. The assessed taxes might
he repealed at once ; and although the revenue would be
deficient in consequence, the country would be relieved,
and Ministers might throw themselves on the country.
The doctrine, that in spite of deficiencies imposts might
be removed, was a dangereus as well as delusive doctrine.
--(Cheers.) It might, perhaps, find favour in the eyes
of a reformed Parliament ; but the very circum-
stances of the increase of democratic influence would

prevent all long-sighted views of the public interest.
—(Hear.) The best mode of relieving the people was
to preserve the national faith and credit, and by degrees,
to pay off the national debt. The Vice-President of time
Hurd of Trade (Mr. P. Thomson) had broached a root

extraordinary doctrine. He had congratulated the country
on the deficiency of 968,000/., because it was not in fact
lost; it remained i❑ the pockets of the people, ready to
be extracted on any future occasion.—(Cheers and laugh-
ter.) This the Right Flora. Gentleman called by a name
which he (Sir R. Peel) hoped would not soon be forgotten
—the fructifying principle.—(Laughter.) If the Right
Hon. Gentleman could but establish that principle gene-
rally, he would stand a good chance of being the most
popular man in the three kingdoms. Every debtor would
then only have to tell his too pressing creditor, " Do not
give yourself any trouble about your principle or interest ;
for you to say that ysu are losing money, is mere delusion ;
it is in my pocket, upon the fructifying principle, ready
to be extracted upon any future occasion. "—(Cheers and
laughter.) According to this fructifying principle, in
what an enviable condition were the creditors of the State
of Colombia.—(Hear.) Strange it was that the bonds
should be at discount, when they were rapidly increasing in
value upon the fructifying principle. The Noble Lord had
taken a distinction with reference to the B, lgian loan
between security and guarantee. Great Britain was not
security for the payment, but only a guarantee. If 81. e
were compelled to pay it to Russia, it was of no conse-
quence whether she ever got it back—it was only in the
pockets of the Belgians upon the fructifying principle.—
(Laughter.) He (Sir R. Peel) protested against adher-
ence to such a doctrine, as fallacious as it was extravagant,
He even doubted the policy of repealing know❑ imposts,
even though they might appear, in theory, to be more op-
pressive—they were often better and less burthensome
than untried though plausible experiments of taxation.
A•lmitting the anticipations of the Noble Lord, the finan-
cial condition of the country was far from satisfactory ;
but his fears would be much greater if he thought that the
Noble Lord was likely to be led away by the fanciful
notions of the Vice-President of the Board of Trade re-
garding the fructifying principle.—(Cheers.) He earnestly
hoped that the Noble Lord, in his desire to attract popu-
larity, would not sacrifice the permanent interests of the
country.—(Hear.)
Mr. P. THOMSON explained.
Mr. JAMES said that the present Ministers asked for
50,0001. on account of the late Coronation, and the
expences were less than that sum. But the former
Government had a grant of 250,000/., and yet they ex-
ceeded it on the preceding Coronation.—(Hear.)
An Hoer. MEMEER was understood to say, that when
gentlemen spoke of the stability of the present Govern-
ment, he could not help thinking of this fact, that on the
question of the Russian• Dutch loan they were near being
driven from office. He thought that a Government must
be very rotten which could be split so easily.—(Hear.)
Lord ALTHORP had a few observations to offer to the
House in the way of explanation, especially in reference to
what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet opposite.
The Right Hon. Baronet had very clearly, and with ex-
cee-ling accuracy, recapitulated the grounds of his (Lord
Althorp's) statement, but there was one part of it that he

appeared to misunderstand—that which related to the
300,000/• due on malt. He (Lord Althorp) stated, that
there was at present a larger sum due on it this year, as tar
as we had gone, than there was the last year; and, in
fact, that there had been a great increase in the suns due
on it, there being 300,0001. due on it now, in addition to
the 600,0001. due on the last year, when the total receipt
of the malt duty amounted to 900,0001. From that
statement he thought he was fully borne out in saying that
this would not be a temporary supply. He had not calcu-
lated on such an increase in the amount in his estimate of
the revenue and expenditure last year, and there-
fore what had accrued beyond his estimate was to be
taken as an additional surplus. The Hon. Member
for Thetford bad doubted the expectations which he
(Lord Althorp) entertained with regard to the duty on
cotton, and the grounds also on which he founded his
statement with regard to that article. Now lie would just
read to the Muse a tabular statement of the importations
of cotton wool during the last three years :—There were
imported into this country, of cotton wool, in the year
1829, 201,797,6561b5. ; 1830, 269,634,7791b5. ; 1831,
283,745,6601b5. The increase, therefore, in those three
years was from 201,000,000165. and upwards, to
283,000,0001b5. and upwards, showing an equal ten-
' ' •

dency to increase in each of those three years. The calcu-
lation which he (Lord Althorp) had made was upon the
amount imported last year, observing at the same time
that it might be possible that the duty which had been im-
posed upon it would act in some degree as a check upon
importation this year. From all the information, how-
ever, which he had received on the subject, he was led to
b.lieve that the increase in the amount of importation
would be as great this year as it had been last. He thought
that under such circumstances the amount which he cal-
culated upon as likely to be derived from the duty on this
article was a very fair and moderate one. He had been asked
by Hon. Members opposite why the estimates had not been
laid on the table of the House before this time. He begged
in reply to say that the estimates for the threeierviees
would he laid on the table of the House in the evening. He
was aware that such a course was not in accordance with a
resolution of the House, but it should he recollected that this
was as early a period as the estimates had been usually placed
on the table of the House in any previous session of Parlia-
ment. He wished to add an obsery Aka in reference to a
statement which had been often made for several years by
Hon. Members who took an interest in the finances of the
country, namely, that it would be desirable that we should
commence them at an earlier period of the year than we
do, and for this reason;—that according to the present
practice we were in the habit of voting estimates after the
money had been spent. His Right Hen. Friend at the
head of the Admiralty had with that view, last year, in
calculating the estimates for the Navy, so arranged them as
to carry them in the commencement of the ensuing April.
He (Lord Althorp) had now to state that it was the inten-
tion of his Mdjesty's Government that the financial year
sh uld for the utore commence at the beginning of April
Hear.) The estimates, therefore, for the present year
had been prepared in two divisions; the first fur the pre-
sent quarter, so as to bring them up to the Ist of April,
and r he other for the lour quarters of the year then ensuing.
The whole Navy estimates for the year would be laid before
the House this evening, the Arley and Ordnance estimates
for the quarter up to the Ist of April, and the remaining
estimates for those services would be laid before the House
with the least possible delay.

Mr. BARING would take that opportunity of asking
when it was intended to move fur a Committee respecting
the Bank charter?

Lord ALTHORP was understood to say that the ques-
tion would be brought before the House as soon as the bu-

siness which now occupied it woulil .Ilow time for the con
sideration of another subject so important.
In answer to a question from Mr. BURGER
- _ _

Lord PALMEIiSTON slid that, under the convention
lately entered into between this country and France, for
the suppression of the slave trade, the consular agents of
France in several ports would be emp .veered to constitute
tribunals, before which, questions arising out of the con-

vention, and affecting French subjects should be tried.
But the Government of France, on consulting French juris
consults, had come to the conclusion, that French subjects
could not be tried, under any treaty, by foreign tramnals.

Sir G. CLERK did not think that the alteration which
the Noule Lord proposed to make in the financial year
would answer. But it would have the eff.ct of rendering
more difficult any comparison of the financial state 01 the

country in a par iicular p..riod of any future year with that
of the correspondaig period in any past year.
Lord ALTuoar's reply was wholly inaudible in the
gallery.

Mr.
HUME thought that the arrangement of the Noble
Lord would be useful, provided that the estimates were laid
upon the table by the 15th of January. He thought that
it would be a very good plan to date the estimates from
the Ist of April, if they were laid upon the table two or
three months before that.—(Hear.)
After a long conversation across the table between Mr.
GouLimas and Lord ALTHORP, the report was brought
up, and a Bill founded upon it was ordered to be brought
in on Wednesday next.

BRISTOL CUSTOMHOUSE.
Mr. HUME asked whether the Government had under-
taken any, and what, expellee for the restoration of the
Custom-house and Excise-offices at Bristol ?
Mr. RICE said that the Government had had no com-
munication on the subject from the heads of the depart-
ments of Custom and Excise at Bristol.
Mr. HUAIE hoped that, before the public should be
submitted to any expense, an inquiry should be instituted
into the conduct of persons, to whom much of the disturb-
ances 1/1 that city were attributed.
Sir J. GRAHAM brought up the Navy Estimates,
which were ordered to be printed.
Mr. S. RICE brought up the Estimates of the Civil
Contingencies, which were ordered to be printed.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a Quarter before One o'clock.

A translation, we understand, is announced in
Paris of i\liss LANDON'S " Romance and Reality," which,
though it at first startled the literary world in France by
its singular mixture of passion, satire, and personality,
has grown into high favour with our Gallic neighbours,
who, above all things, relish what is new. In Vienna
c
and Leipsic, " Romance and Reality" has for some time
in the German tongue, two versions having
been rapidly prepared and printed.

SUPPLEMENT to the LONDON GAZETTE

of FaIDAY, dated MotipAr, FEB. 6.

At the Court held at the Palace of St. James's,
this 6th day of February, 1832,
PRESENT,
The King's Most Excellent Majesty in °mina
BY THE KING.
A PROCLAMATION FOR A GENERAL FAST.
WILLIAM R.

We, taking into our most serious consideration the
dangers with which this country is threatened by the
progress of a grievous disease heretofore unknown in these
Islands, have resolved and do, by and with the advice of
our Privy Council, hereby command that a public day
of fasting and humiliation be observed throughout those
parts of the United Kingdom called England and Ireland,
on Wednesday, the 21st day of March next ensuing,
that so both we and our people may humble ourselves be-
fore Almighty God, in order to obtain pardon for our
sins, and in the most devout and solemn manner
mend up our prayers and supplications to the Divine Majesty
for averting those heavy judgments which our manifold
provocations have most justly deserved; and particularly for
beseechir.g God to remove from us that grievous disease with
which several places in the kingdom are at this time visited :
And we do strictly charge and command that the said Public
Fast be reverently and devoutly observed by ail our loving
subjects in England and Ireland, as they tender the favour
of Almighty God, and would avoid his wrath and indig-
nation ; upon pain of such punishment as may be justly in-
flicted on all such as contemn and neglect the performance
of so religious and necessary a duty. And for the better and
more orderly solemnizing the same, We hare given direc-
tions to tre most Reverend the Archbishops, and the
Right Reverend the Bishops of England and Ireland, to
compose a Form of Prayer suitable on this occasion, to be
used in all Churches, Chapels, and Places of Public Wor-
ship, and to take care that the same be timely dispersed
throughout their respective dioceses.
Given at our Giurt at St. James's, this 6th day of
February, 1832, and in the Second Year of Our
Reign.

GOD SAVE THE KING.

BY THE KING-A PROCLAMATION.

FOR A GENERAL FAST IN SCOTLAND.
WILLIAM R.

We, having taken into our serious consideration the
dangers with which this country is threatened by the
progress of a grievous disease heretofore unknown in
these Islands, have resolved and do, by and with
the advice of our Privy Council, hereby command
that a public day of fasting and humiliation be
observed throughout that part of the United Kingdom
called Scotland, on Thursday, the 22d day of March
next ensuing, that so both we and our people may
humble ourselves before Almighty God, in order to
obtain pardon of our sins, and in the most devout
and solemn manner send up our prayers and sup-
plications to the Divine Majesty for averting those heavy
judgments which our manifold provocations have most
justly deserved; and particularly for beseeching God
to remove from us that grievous disease with
which several places in the kingdom are at this
time visited : And we do strictly charge and command
that the said Public Fast be reverently and devoutly oh-
served by all our loving subjects in Scotland, as they
tender the favour of Almighty God, and would avoid his
wrath and indignation, and upon pain of such punish-
ment as may be justly inflicted on all such as contemn
and neglect the performance of so religious and necessary a
duty. Our will is, therefore, and we charge that this
our Proclamation seen, ye forthwith proceed to the market-
cross at Edinburgh, and all other places needful, and
there in our name and authority make publication
hereof, that none pretend ignorance : And our will
and pleasure is, that our Solicitor do cause printed
copies hereof to be sent to the several Sheriffs of the
several Shires, Stewarts of Stewartries, and Bailiffs
of Regalities, and their clerks, whom we ordain
to see the same published ; and we appoint them
to send copies hereof to the several Parish Churches
within their bounds, and that upon the Lord's Day im-
mediately preceding the day above mentioned the same
may be published and read from the pulpits immediately
after Divine Service.

Given at our Court at St. James's, this 6th day of
February, 1832, and in the Second Year of Our
Reign.

GOD SAVE THE KING.

NEW SHERIFFS,

APPOINTED BY HIS MAJESTY IN COUNCIL FOR THE
YEAR 1832.

BEDFORDSHIRE.—Thomas Potter WOueen, of Ridgmont, Esq.
BERKSHIRE.—Thomas Mills Goodlake, of Wadley-house, Esq.
BucgiNcuAsignigg.—Charles Spencer Ricketts, of Dalton-
house, Esq.
CAMBRIDGESHIRE AND HUNTINGDONSHIRE.--Thomas Page, of
Ely, Esq.
CHESIIIRE.—John Hurlstone Leche, of Cardin, Esq.
CUMBERLAND.—Henry Howard, of Corby Castle, Esq.
CORNWALL—Edward Archer, of Treslake, Esq.
DeguysitraE.—Samuel Shore, of Norton, Esq.
DEvoNsiiinu.—John North Woolcombe, of Ashbury, Esq.
DORSETSIIIRE.—Sir Edward Baker Baker, of Ranston, Bart.
Essgx.—John Thomas Selwyn, of Down-hall, in Hatfield Broad
Oak, Esq.
GLouc ESTI? RSHIRE.—Robert Canning, of Hartpury, F..sq.
HEREFORDSHIRE.—John Freeman, of Gaines, Esq.
11 ERTFORDSIII RE. —Robert Plummer Ward, of Gilstone Park,
Esq.
KENT.—George Douglas, of Chilston Park, Esq.
LEICESTERSHIRE.—Edward Bourchier Hartopp, of Little Dalby,
Esq.
LixcotxsutgE.—William Hutton, of Gateburton, Esq.
MoNmouTnsttigE.—Sir Mark Wood, of Rumney, Bart.
NORFOLK._Wm. Lyde Wiggett Chute, of South Pitman, Esq.
NORTHAMPTONSHIRE.—Wm. Williams Hope, of Rushton, Esq.
NORTHUMBERLAND.—Henry John William Collingwood, of Lil-
burn Tower, Esq.
NOTTINGHAMSII I RE. —Henry Machin, of Gateford-hill, Esq.
OXFORDSHIRE.—MichaeI Henry Blount, of Maple-Durham, Esq.
11 lITLANDSHIRL—WiIIiam Gifford, of North Luffenham, Esq.
Snaops,llßE.—William Oakley, of Oakley, Esq.
SOMERSETSIIIRF..—Sir Henry Strachy, of Sutton-court, Bart.
STAFFORDSHIRE.—Sir Thomas Fletcher Fenton Boughey, of
Aqualate-park, Bart..
CouNTY OF SO (ITU A M rroN.—Jervoise Clark Jervoise, of Ids-
worth-park, Esq.
SUFFOLK.—Joseph Burch Smith, of Stoke-hall, Ipswich, Esq.
Sugar:Y.—Miles Stringer, of Effingham, Esq.
SUSSEX.—Alexander Donovan, of Framfield-park, Esq.
WARWICKSHIRE.—Edmund Meysey Wigley Greswold, of Mal-
vern.hall, Esq.
WILTSHIRE.—Sir Edmund Antrobus, of Amesbury, Bart.
WORCESTERSIIIRE.--JOhll Joseph Martin, of Ham-court, Esq.
YORKSHIRE.—Richard York, of Wighill-park, Esq.

NORTH WALES.
ANGLEsEa.—Sir John Williams, of Tyfrey, Baronet.
CA RNARVONSIIIRE.-John Rowlands, of Plas-tirion, Esq.
De.sannisniaK.—Edward Lloyd, of Cefn, Esq.
FLINTSIIIRE.-Sir John Hanmer, of Bettistield Park, Baronet.
MERIONETIISUIRE.-Williazn Turner, of Croesor, Esq.
MONTGOMERYSHIRE.-Sir C. F. Jones, of Broadway, Knight.

SOUTH WALES.
BREcaNsimte.—James Price Gwynne Holford, of Buckland,Esq.
CA RDIOANSH I RE.—llenryLewisEdwardsGwynne, of Lanley,Esq.
CARMARTHENSIIIRB.—John Lavelyn Puxley, of Lletherllestry,
Esq.
GLamoßGANsHlßE.—Frederick Fredericks, of Duffryn, Esq.
PEMBROKESHIRE.—David Davis, of Carnachenwen, Esq.
RADNORSHIRE.—Thomas Evans, of Llvmbarried, Esq.