The Sun.
London, England, 1835-06-16 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, JUNE 16, 1835.

charge of felony, and had entered into a bond to satisfy the
parties.---( A laugh. )
Mr. LAW—Did the witness clearly understand that the
prisoner was under a charge of felony ?
Mr. Giffard—Yes, Sir, I did.
Mr. LAW—Did you understand this from the keeper of
the gaol ?
Mr. Giffard—No, Sir, certainly not.
Mr. LAW—Was it on a charge of embezzlement or civil
debt, or on a charge of felony ?
Giffard—A charge of embezzlement.
Mr. LAW—A charge of felony
Mr. Giffard—A charge of feleny.—( A laugh.)
The witness then withdrew, and
Mr. HUME moved that John Pilgrim be brought to the bar.
Mr. C. W. W. WYNN thought that the best course the
House could pursue would be to commit the prisoner to New-
gate in order to his safe custody ; and if it should be found
that he had been committed to Norwich gaol for felony he
might then be remanded to that prison.
The petition to the House of John Pilgrim was then put in
by Mr. P. Stewart, and was read by the Clerk of the House.
It set forth that the petitioner had proceeded to Ipswich to in-
terfere in the election solely at the command of Messrs.
Sewell, Blake, and Co., solicitors, with whom he had been a
confidential clerk and agent for thirty years ; that he had
acted under the direction of those persons throughout the
election, and had at their desire absconded, in order to avoid
giving evidence before the Committee ; that he had after-
wards been arrested under a charge of embezzlement by
Messrs. Sewell and Blake, that he might evade the Speaker's
warrant ; and that he had afterwards made all the atonement
in his power to the Hon. House, by giving the most full and
accurate evidence of the proceedings at the election. The
prisoner therefore humbly threw liimself upon the mercy of
the Hon. House, and prayed that the Hon. House would not
subject him to imprisonment.
The SPEAKER then put the question that John Pilgrim
was guilty of a breach of the privileges of that House?
The motion being agreed to nem con.,
The SPEAKER next put the question, that John Pilgrim
be committed to his Majesty's gaol of Newgate, in order to
his safe custody ?
Mr. C. W. W. WYNN thought that the prisoner ought
to be committed by way of punishment for the offence he had
committed.
Mr. LAW ventured to suggest to the House whether,
without the consent of the Crown, to be expressed by his
Majesty's law officers, the House could proceed to commit the
offender to Newgate, when he was already a prisoner under a
charge of felony in his Majesty's gaol of Norwich. He only
pressed the case out of regard to the rights of the Crown.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would never neglect the
prerogatives of the Crown, nor the privileges of his own
office, but he felt convinced that no such prerogative or pri-
vilege as the Hon. and Learned Recorder had adverted to
could intervene in the present case. He had looked into the
precedents on this subject, and he was persuaded that the
House had the power to order Pilgrim into custody, although
he was in gaol on a charge of felony.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. C W. W. WYNN said there could be no doubt that
the view that his Majesty's Attorney-General had taken of the
subject was correct.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY thought that the prisoner ought to
be committed to Newgate instanter, if it were only to give him
the opportunity of proving the allegations contained in his
petition..—( Hear, hear, hear.) The petitioner had stated
that he had been thirty years a confidential agent to Messrs.
Sewell, and this ought to give a prima facie weight to his
testimony in this case. He trusted that the House would at
length reach the prime movers in this case.
Mr. HUME would vote for the committal of the prisoner to
Newgate.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was not unfavourable to
the mildest course that could be pursued.
Mr. LAW, in reply to the Attorney-General, said that in
the case referred to the rule of court was, that the Attorney-
General might show cause on the case, and the rule was made
absolute upon his not showing cause.
After an observation from Lord JOHN RUSSELL, which
was quite inaudible, the question was put, and John Pilgrim
was ordered to be committed for safe custody to the gaol of
Newgate.
Mr. GISBORNE said it was not his intention at present
to bring forward any motion respecting the other parties who
were implicated in these proceedings by the Report of the
Committee. But if, after the whole of the evidence taken
before the Committee had been printed and in the hands of
Members—if no other Member, better qualified for the duty,
should take up the matter, he should find himself called upon
to bring forward a motion for instituting proceedings against
the late sitting Members, tbe Magistrates, and all the other
parties involved in the report.
Mr. H UME said that the Magistrates might be proceeded
against for the impediments they threw in the way of the exe-
cution of the Speaker's warrant.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to know from the Hon.
Member for Derbyshire if it was his intention to move that ali
the evidence taken before the Committee should be printed?
Mr. GISBORNE said that it was his intention to move that
all those parts of the evidence relating to the parties implicated
by the report should be printed.
After a few words from Mr. YOUNG,
Mr. GISBORNE moved that a Committee be appointed
to select and report to the House, all the evidence bearing
upon the cases of the persons implicated in the report of the
Ipswich Election Committee.
The motion was then agreed to, and the Select Committee
named.

care that the person exercising it should have such a stake as
afforded some warrant for his respectability ; but for corporation
purposes it might perhaps be found sufficiently convenient and ef-
fectual to trust the, right of electing the Corporation to rate-
payers. It was important here to observe that one of the
great objections urged against the present Corporation system
and one to which it was fairly liable, was the tendency it had
to introduce and foster a spirit of party and political feeling.
Without adverting particularly or invidiously to Whig or
Tory Corporations, no person could deny that the necessary
consequence of the principle of self-election in Corporations
was to preserve in the officers and members of them the same
political prejudices, and to transmit them from one generation
to another. It was most desirable that at length, and after
the long experience they had of the evils arising from this
system, some steps should be taken to check, if not entirely to
put an end to it. Great care should be taken that in future
the election of officers should not be a trial of the relative
strength of parties in a Corporation, and that the result of
the franchise now proposed would be to make the officers,
not exclusively the representatives of a particular political
party, but the representatives of one set of opinions as well
as another.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted the Government
would adhere to the principle which required a three years'
residence and contribution to the rate. This he considered a
very important provision. It might be objected that by re-
quiring this condition, of a three years' payment of rate, some
voters, having the 101. franchise for Members of Parliament,
would be struck out, and deprived of the power of voting for
Corporation officers. That might be the case; but he would
remind the House that permanent residence as a title to vote
would be much more important here than in the franchise
provided by the Reform Bill. There was one circumstance
to be considered, and it was this, that the least respectable
class of voters was likely to be that which consisted of per-
sons that were frequently changing their place of residence.
—( Hear.) By requiring the condition of residence for so
long a period as three years they were likely to secure a more
respectable class of voters, better acquainted with their own
interests and with those of the body of which they formed a
constituent part. With respect to open voting, it seemed to
him that the provisions of the Bill were hardly sufficient to
secure that important object. The mere signature of the
party, to be inspected only by the Mayor, could not be con-
sidered open; it was rather secret voting. However, the
time for entering into these considerations would be when the
Bill was in Committee, and he trusted that, forgetting party
differences and shades of political opinion, the endeavour on all
sides would be, not to impair the provisions of the Bill, but,
if alterations should be deemed necessary, so to alter it as to
make it work practically for the greatest possible benefit of the
community at large.---( Cheers.) There was one point ad-
verted to by his Noble Friend (Lord Sandon) which appeared
to him of some importance—he meant the shortness of the
period allowed to the officers to continue in office. He fully
admitted that it was highly desirable the electors should exer-
cise periodical control over the acts of the Corporation, and
should have opportunities of seeing how the property was
disposed of, and of checking its application. But, in endea-
vouring to avoid one evil, they might fall into that of an op-
posite nature, by depriving the Corporation of that degree of
continuance, those opportunities for maturing their plans, and
that stability that was necessary to enable them to bring their
objects to a successful issue. If a sufficient degree of control
could be secured otherwise, why should the period ,of three
years be fixed for re-election—besides which, it was proposed
that there should be every year a re-election of one-third of
the Council ? See what a state of agitation, excitement, and
turmoil this would give rise to in every large town through-
out the country. For his part--and he only expressed his
own private opinion—he should prefer a general election every
sixth year in place of three years ; and that the re-election of
halt the Council should be triennial. It struck him that it
would be a much preferable mode that half the Council
should go out triennially, than that one-third should go
out annually. There was another point to which he would
call the attention of his Noble Friend.—( Hear, hear.) He
hoped his Noble Friend and the Government would consider
whether the division into wards, might not be advan-
tageously extended farther than it was in this Bill. There
were not more than about twenty of the largest towns to which
it was proposed to extend the principle of a division into wards.
The Corporation of all places under a population of 25,0D0
was to be chosen in a single election. It was easy to see that
the result of this must be to enable a single majority in those
towns to return all the officers, and thus the minority, however
large and however respectable, would be entirely unrepre-
sented. He would submit to the consideration of his Noble
Friend, and of the House, whether there would not be a great
advantage in taking the election in different wards ? One
great convenience arising from it would be to prevent con.
fusion. As the Bill now stood if any one member of the
Council happened to die in a town under a population of
25,000 he must be replaced by a general election of all the
voters ; whereas by a division into wards there would be no
occasion for an election except in the particular ward where a
vacancy occurred, and the rest of the town would be left free
from the bustle and agitation of an election contest. He
would not now go into further details, but when the Bill was
in Committee he had no doubt that the Government would be
prepared and even anxious to go into a full discussion of the
clauses, and to consider, in a spirit of fairness and conciliation,
any suggestions that might be thrown out in the way of im-
provement. He could say for himself that upon this very im-
portant subject he felt nothing but an earnest and sincere
desire to see carried into effect a measure which he considered
wise in principle-4 Cheers)—and excellent in many of its
details—to see it carried into effect beneficially, not for this
party or that, but for the good of the community at large.--
( Cheers. )
Mr. EWA RT said there was no precedent for the period
of six years, as suggested by the Noble Lord. He denied
that publicity was the principle upon which the Corporation
of Liverpool conducted their affairs. The only publicity they
obtained was from individual members of the Corporation, and
that without the consent of the rest. Even Tory members of
that body admitted that the funds were not properly adminis-
tered. A meeting was held in Liverpool on Friday last, at
which many thousands attended ; and, so far from expressing
distrust in the Government, on account of this Bill, it bad
greatly raised them in their estimation.
Mr. GROTE entertained a very high opinion of the ex-
cellent principles on which the measure was based, and derived
great satisfaction from perceiving the general feeling of the
House as to the necessity of abolishing the self-election sys-
tem. Ile only regretted that such a system should have been
suffered to remain so long without any attempt at Reform.
As to the remarks of the Noble Lord the Member for Lan-
cashire he hoped that no one of the alterations proposed by
him would be acceded to by the Noble Lord the Member for
Stroud. The qualification of the three years' rating, he
apprehended, would disfranchise a large body of voters
without at all adding to the respectability of the consti-
tuency, as he would be prepared to show when the House
went into Committee upon the Bill. He sincerely hoped
that the three years' rating would be reduced to one. The
great defect in the Bill be considered to be the want of the
principle of the ballot. As to minor points he thought that
the number of the members of the Council was unnecessarily
large, and calculated to lower the average of intelligence and
respectability on the part of the members. The number he
should propose to reduce to one half.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
Of the severance between the judicial and administrative
functione he greatly approved. In regard to the trustees of
charitable uses he considered the mode of election an improve-
ment ; but he thought there should be some provision for
insuring a proper discharge of their duties when they were
elected ; at present they were irresponsible and irremovable.
He also begged leave to recommend that some means should
be adopted for removing the Recorder when be ceased to give
satisfaction to the town—he might be subjected to removal on
the petition of a majority of the Council, or a majority of rate-
payers. The Hon. Member concluded by stating his inten-
tion to reserve other details for the Committee.
Mr. WALL ACE said that the system of wards which was
which was proposed by the Noble Lord the Member for Lan-
cashire had not been found to answer. The system had failed
in Scotland. As to increasing the three years of office to
six, it would be advocated only by those who were in favour of
septennial Parliaments. As to the general plan it was excel-
lent, and he hoped its advantages would in time be communi-
cated to Scotland.
Mr. BL AC KBURNE said there was no doubt as to the
propriety of abolishing the self-election system. The best
substitute would be a right on the part of every inhabitant to
take part in the election of those destined to manage his
affairs. Nothing was more just than that he who paid his pro-
portion of certain funds should have a voice in choosing the
managers of those funds. The qualification of a vote being
fixed to consist in the payment of rates was the most politic, as
it insured the respectability of the voter. This qualification
was, by the Bill, intended to be three years' residence and three
years' rating, in order to exclude from voting those who were
only occasional residents in the borough. But, in his opinion,
a year's residence was sufficient to show an individual's inten-
tention to remain in the borough, and after being rated, and
after residing for one year, he would still ,be unable to vote for
a greater number of the municipal officers than one-third of the
whole. With this exception he agreed in all the details of the
Bill, though of course many excellent alterations might be
suggested in Committee. Though he was one of the Corpo-
ration Commissioners, he had no share in drawing up the Bill,
and, therefore, be had been induced to make these few remarks.
Sir ROBERT PEEL spoke as follows :—Sir, the same
motives which induced me to make no opposition to the mo-
tion of the Noble Lord the Member for Stroud for introducing
this measure will lead me to give my assent, and I must say
my willing assent, to the second reading of it to-night.—( Hear,
hear.) When I hear of certain political parties being inte-
rested in opposing a reform of the municipal institutions of the
country, I must say that that great party with which I have
the honour to be connected can have no other interest than that
os seeing a well constructed system of good Government
established in those large and important societies.—( Hear. )
To the general principle of this measure I am a cordial friend.
I believe that you could not establish a system of permanently
good Government, and at the same time preserve all the
existing privileges of the corporate authorities. I think that
it is better to place the administration of towns in bodies en-
tirely new modelled than to leave the corporate authorities in
existence, and at the same time to supersede their interference
in municipal affairs by the erection of higher and controlling
powers. Indeed, it may be said to be a compliment to the
principal inhabitants of the towns to provide, by a new mode of
election, for the municipal administration, instead of preserving
the system of self-election, and at the same time of depriving
the authorities of all power. Upon the details, Sir, I intend
to reserve to myself an entire right of bringing forward
any suggestion which may occur to me as worthy the con-
sideration of the House. At the same think I think it
proper to state that if I mean to propose any important
amendment, at all affecting the principle of the measure, I
shall give notice of such proposition ; and I think were
other Hon. Gentlemen to adopt a similar course it would

be one of great and general convenience.—(Hear, hear.) The
three most important questions connected with the principle of
the Bill appear to be these :—The qualification of the
constituent body, the frequency of elections, and the manner
in which the governing body is to be elected. But, besides
these questions, there is another point which I do not find no-
ticed in the Bill, and which I believe has not been adverted
to by any Honourable Gentleman in the debate. I mean
the qualification of the members of the governing body.—
( Hear, hear.) With respect to the qualification on the part
of the constituent body—that is, those who are to elect to the
administration of the towns—l have given some consideration
to the subject since the measure was introduced by the Noble
Lord the Member for Stroud ; and my present impression is,
that it would be advisable to have a qualification which is dif-
ferent to that fixed by the Reform Bill.—( Hear, hear.) The
Hon. Gentleman who stated to the House some facts relating
to the Scotch burghs, omitted to inform the House that the
qualification of a voter for municipal officers is identical with
that required on the part of electors of Parliamentary repre-
sentatives. The qualification of a voter in the Scotch burghs
is fixed at 10/.—( Hear, hear.) Now, if we introduced the
same principle into the measure before us, we should have the
advantages of the existing system of legislature • but, on the
other hand, I feel the full force of the objection ;hat we should
run the risk of causing the constituent body to be entirely po-
litical, and influenced by all those heated and acrimonious
feelings which too frequently govern the voters at elections of
Members of Parliament. On every vacancy in a magisterial
office, whether by death, by resignation, or the triennia 1 ro-
tation, the election might be converted into a trial of po-
litical strength, and that I think would have a considerable
tendency to paralise the exertions and wholesome influence
of the local magistrates, inasmuch as they would be sus-
pected of having a direct interest to secure the municipal
elections for political purposes—a suspicion which must
necessarily shake the public confidence in their incor-
rupt and impartial discharge of their functions. Under
these circumstances, then, I conceive it would be ad-
vantageous to adopt another qualification than that of the Re-
form Bill. The next question is, whether the qualification
laid down in the measure before us is the right one ?—( Hear,
hear.) It consists of three years' continuous residence, and
three years' continuous payment of rates. Now Iby no means
consider this a bad qualification ; for the three years' residence
forms an excellent test of the good character of the elector,
and the three years' payment of rates of his property, respecta-
bility, and interest in the maintenance of good government.
But to fix this qualification is not enough ; you ought to guard
against its evasion.—( Hear, hear.) If no such precautions be
taken, you will give a vote in many towns to individuals who
are without any settlement there.—( Hear, hear.) Here,
although the parishes de facto pay the rates, the paupers are
the parties who directly make the payment, and consequently,
notwithstanding the provisions of a three years' residence, and
a three years' payment of rates, paupers belonging to another
parish, and having no settlement in the towns they reside in,
will have a right to elect to the first offices in the municipal
system. After this example I think no Hon. Gentleman will
dissent from the suggestion that effectual provisions ought to
be made for a strict bona fide adherence to the qualification
established by the Bill.—( Hear, hear.) As to its amount, I
consider it to be quite low enough. I cannot agree with the
Hon. Gentleman who ventured the dictum that every man who
contributes to the rates levied in a town ought to possess a vote
in the election of those concerned in their management and
disposal. I do not think he has any such right. You do
not say that every man who contributes to the exigencies of
the State has a claim to vote at the election of Members of
Parliament, but you adopt that course which appears calcu-
lated for obtaining electors who are best qualified for taking a
part in such elections, and appointing to the station those who
are most fitted to hold it. Why should not the same princi-
ple be adopted in corporations ? If you think that by laying
down a qualification of three years' residence and three years'
payment of rates you can obtain a more efficient control over
the rates, and a better system of municipal government, I say
that this is a mere material object to look to than any theoretic
principle, that he who contributes to the rates should vote in
the election of the managers of them. With respect to the
frequency of elections, I am inclined to think that more
would be gained by the permanence of the administrative body
than by the introduction of a principle of constant turmoil
and agitation which must go to poison the harmony of so-
ciety. With respect to the qualification of the governing
body, I believe it is a very prevalent opinion in this coun-
try, that there ought to be some qualification.—( Hear, hear.)
We have a right to entertain that opinion. And, Sir, con-
sidering that a Mayor of a town is to sit on the same bench
with county Magistrates, from whom some qualification is
required, and that for the proper discharge of his important
duties a similar security seems just as necessary, it is not
inconsistent to call for the insertion of a clause to that ef-
fect. I have now adverted to the three main points in the Bill, and
having declared my sentiments in regard to the principle of each,
I shall reserve more minute details for a future opportunity.
With respect to the Mayor of a town, I wish to remind
the House that he is also the returning officer—that he
is a political character, and that he has political functions
to perform. Now, what are the powers with which, in
addition to his political authority, this measvre proposes to
invest him ? They are of the greatest extent, and, there-
fore, what I wish to suggest is, that precautions should be
taken against his abuse of his municipal powers for any po-
litical purpose. You give to the Mayor the power of re-
ceiving the lists of the voters in the municipal elections, of
examining those lists, and of proclaiming the result of
such examination. You have not neglected to take pre-
cautions for a due discharge of their duties by the members
of the Council, and for a proper application of charitable
funds ; and, therefore, if you are so cautious in matters of
less importance you should at least be equally so in pre-
venting political from clashing with municipal duties. But
by the Bill the Mayor has almost irresponsible power in
regard to the municipal voters ; and, upon the grounds I have
before stated, it is not only requisite to guard against the
abuse of this power, but also to make provisions for preclud-
ing the possibility of such an abuse being suspected, for sus-
picion is sufficient to invalidate confidence in his impartiality'
and. integrity. Now what objection can there possibly be
to the appointment of a certain number of authorised scru-
tineers, to examine and report on the lists of the voters ? At
present the Mayor is to preside in the Court for hearing objec-
tions against voters, to receive the lists of those objected to, to
examine the lists, and, moreover, he has the power of destroy-
ing them immediately after such examination. Any abuse of
this unlimited power might, however, be prevented by the ar-
rangements I have suggested. There is another point also
deserving of attentive consideration. The Bill makes no pro-
vision for the application of any surplus corporate funds. Many
of the boroughs are extremely wealthy, and if we provide them
with funds for the determinate application of which we furnish
them with directions, it is quite clear that frequently a con-
siderable surplus may be left. Liverpool, I believe, has at
present a considerable surplus.
Lord S AND ON A surplus of 25,0001.
Sir R. PEEL—WeII, the new corporate bodies are to have
all the power of the existing municipal officers, and in the
event of a large surplus, which may accrue after providing for
all the purposes named in the Act ; they may make what use
they please of it, unless some distinct enactment is made, that
they are not to dispose of it without the sanction of the Trea-
sury, or without complying with certain forms. Under this
Bill many boroughs will have to incur considerable expense—
for instance, in establishing a body of police, and for such pur-
poses they are to be empowered to levy a sufficient rate. To
this there can be no objection, and I highly approve of the pro-
vision by which, existing interests being excepted, no munici-
pal officer is for the future to have any private pecuniary in-
terest in the local funds. The improvements under this head
would, therefore, I think, be complete, if some enactment
were made in reference to the disposal of the surplus funds.—
( Hear, hear.) The next point to which I shall direct
attention relates to the county rates, a subject in which many
country Gentlemen in this House are deeply interested.
All the-new boroughs will be exempted from the operation of
the county rates; their criminal jurisdiction is to be taken
away ; and this Bill seems to assume that all their cases will
be sent to the assizes. The county rate, moreover, will be
levied on a new principle ; for, by this Bill, the treasurer of
the county will have to certify to the treasurer of the bo-
rough what portion of the expenses the borough would have
to pay. In most instances lam afraid the borough will not
be satisfied with the calculations of the county treasuprer ; and
this, as may easily be supposed, will lead to almost endless dis-
putes. The present mode of assessment is simple ; but cer-
tainly this proposed alteration is not so simple. There is
another enactment in this Bill which is of great importance.
The counties now pay for the erection of bridges and of lunatic
asylums; but by this Bill the boroughs will also have to pay
their portion. The treasurer of the county will certify the
portion to be paid in the new districts, and in case of difference
there is to be an appeal to the Privy Council, but I am afraid
that the Privy Council is not a body the most fit to determine
such points, there being no test to guide their judgment.
Looking at this Bill as if it were a local Bill the districts
composing the new boroughs will not be conter-minus
with the parishes. A part of a parish may be without the
boundaries of the borough, and, being in the county, will
be under the control of the old system of contribution ; but
the other part, being within the borough, will come under
the operation of the new principle to be established by this
Bill, and, consequently, great confusion will arise. These,
certainly, are minor difficulties, but they are of such a nature
that to disregard them would materially impair the successful
working of the measure. But there is a more important
point connected with this Bill, to which I now come. This
Bill provides that twenty boroughs are to be divided into
wards, and these wards are to be determined by the Privy
Council, on the report of Commissioners, to be appointed by
the Crown. Now, Sir, surely Parliament ought to have some
control over the establishment of these wards, without leaving
the matter entirely to Commissioners and the Privy Council ;
and I think that much ill-will and bad feelings may be done
away with by extending this principle of wards beyond the
limits provided in the Bill. On this point I shall reserve to
myself the power of proposing some alteration when the House
goes into Committee. The Bill, as I have just remarked,
provides that twenty towns shall be divided into wards ; but
it also provides that the Privy Council shall not only have the
numbering of these wards, but shall decide as to the number
of representatives to be returned by each ward. This is an
extremely great power, and to say that any power short of
Parliament shall divide Liverpool or any other great city into
wards, and determine the number of the representatives of the
wards, is to give the power of making that Corporation aristo-
cratical or democratical, as the Commissioners or Privy Coun-
cil may choose. But does the Noble Lord suppose that, with-
out any reservation, the Crown ought to exercise this very
great power ? In the case of the Reform Bill the Crow was
to have the power of determining the boundaries of the new
boroughs, but Parliament took to itself that power. By this
Bill the Crown is authorized, in the case of a first election,
\to dispense with the division into wards. Surely this is ma-

nifestly wrong, for the Bill gives to the Crown the appoint-
ment of Commissioners—to the Privy Council the division of
these wards ; but if the Crown does not think fit to exercise
its discretionary power the electors are to have liberty to
proceed to the election of the corporate body. In this there
should be some alteration ; but most undoubtedly the privi-
lege of dividing into wards ought alone to be reserved for
Parliament. Having thus far considered the measure in its;
general bearings, it is my intention to support the Bill ; but
my most earnest advice to all parties is, to give the fullest op-
portunity of examining the details, in order to secure the suc
cess and popularity of the measure. The operations of the
Bill in individual cases may be bad, but I hope they will not
mar the general good features of the measure. There cer-
tainly are some cases, in which I think the advantages to bo
expected from this Bill will not be realized. For insrance, in
the town with which I am connected, referred to by the Com-
missioners in their Report, the corporate body is self-elected,
it has only limited funds, but it is independent—has never
meddled in electioneering matters—stand above all suspicion
of abuse ; and I must say that I should see, with great regret,
any alteration made in its government, which would only serve
to introduce electioneering squabbles and dissensions. This
would impress upon the Noble Lord, and beg of him to con-
sider most seriously whether Corporations, against which no
suspicion of any abuse can breathed, ought not to be suffered
to remain as they are at present.—( Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. BR OTHE RTON, which

were totally inaudible in the gallery,
Mr. JERVIS said the Right Hon. Baronet considered the
annual going out of one-third of the town-council would be
inexpedient ; but then that Right Hon. Baronet must have
forgotten that two-thirds always remained in office to instruct
those newly-elected. Besides, as was the cue with the guar-
dians of the poor, if they behaved well when in office, they
were generally sure of election. As regarded the qualifies
tionr he considered that the persons who would be elected
would be of such character and station in life as would ren-
der any qualification unnecessary. Because a Noble and
Learned Lord (Brougham) had chosen to introduce a Bill into
the other House with qualifications, he apprehended that that
House was not bound to adopt the same principle. To en-
large the division of great towns into wards, he considered
beneficial, and he should advise that a revising barrister should
go to each town, and examine into the list of voters, to pre-
vent any undue influence of the Mayor, who was to be the
returning officer under this Bill. It was not necessary for
him to observe any further on the principle of this Bill, with
which he most cordially agreed ; but he hoped that its pro-
gress might not be delayed beyond that time which was ac-
tually necessary for a measure of so much importance.
Lord J. RUSSELL was extremely happy that the House
entertained so favourable an opinion of the measure which he
had introduced, and he felt convinced that the same feeling
would successfully carry it through the House. It had afforded
him great gratification to hear the Noble Lord the Member
for Lancashire to express his concurrence in the objects of
this Bill. He had expected as much from that Noble Lord,
and he was glad that he had not been disappointed in receiv-
ing his support in endeavouring to reform one of the institeu-
tions of the country. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposit
had likewise stated, in the most candid and honourable man-
ner, that some Reform was necessary in the Municipal Cor-
porations of this country, and that it was necessary to deal with
them on large and general principles. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had spoken on three points of the Bill. First, as to
the franchise of the constituent body; secondly, as to the fre-
quency of elections ; and thirdly, as to the absence of any
qualification in the governing body. With respect to the fran-
chise of the constituent body, what the Right Hon. Gentleman
and his Right Hon. Friend said had tended to confirm Idol
(Lord John Ru.,sell) in his opinion, that he had made a pro-
per selection of the species of electors, and he felt not at All
disposed to make any alteration in that respect. In former.
times residents in towns for one year were considered perma-
nent residents ; but such fluctuation necessarily took place in
the number of inhabitants of towns, that he thought it OS
not unreasonable to say that the permanent inhabitants of a
town should be considered to be those who had paid rates
for three years. He certainly thought that the Bill as it now
stood was preferable to the alterations proposed.—( Hear.)
The inhabitants of towns ought to have due controul over the
election of the Corporate body, and have a power of inte
ference for the purpose of re-electing at so long period
those persons of whose conduct they approved. This Bill, he
conceived, would not tend to effect perpetual changes in the
parties chosen, for it was only natural to suppose that those
who had established a character in office would generally be
re-elected. The Right Hon. Gentleman proposed some qua•
lification, but he (Lord John Russell), after the best considera-
tion he had been able to give the subject, was clearly of opi-
nion that no possible practical benefit could arise by requiring
qualifications.—( Hear.) With respect to the question of
wards, it was said that a greater number of towns than those
specified in the schedule ought to be divided into wards. He
thought that dividing not very large towns into wards instead
of having a beneficial, would have a very bad effect. At
this late hour of the night he would not press further upon
the attention of the House ; and with regard to those ques-
tions of detail which had been touched on by the Right Hon.
Baronet, another more convenient opportunity would occur for
their discussion. He would therefore conclude by stating
that it was his intention to propose that the Bill be committed
on Monday next, and he considered from day to day. The Bill
was then read a second time.
The Offences Against the Person Bill was then read a se-
cond time and ordered to be committed.
The Western Australian Bill passed through Committee.
It being now half-past twelve,
Mr. B ROTHE RT ON moved the adjournment, but the
motion not being seconded,
Lord G. SOMERSET moved the Address in pursuance
of resolutions of the Committee on rebuilding the Houses of
Parliament. In doing so he said that the erection should be
open to competition. With regard to the expense, he added
that it was impossible to lay down any rule by which togo-
vern every species of outlay. As to the total outlay, the
Committee were of opinion that if too large a sum were named
there would be an inducement to make the estimate too high
whilst, on the contrary, if the sum were too small, it would be
found inadequate.
Mr. HUNIE and Mr. R. COLBORNE supported the motion.
Mr. L ENNARD hoped the different plans before they
were decided upon, would be lithographed and distributed
amongst the Members for their consideration. It was stid"
mentable fact that of late years a great deal of moneY
been squandered away upon public buildings, which even for
proved very little ornamental to the country. He thought, `h_
instance, Buckingham Palace would not have cost so '
glueble
and would have proved a handsomer and more credit° f
building, if the plans had been submitted to the House
Commons.
After a few observations from the Chancellor of the El"
chequer, the Solicitor-General, and Mr. Tooke, the motion
was agreed to.

IPSWICH ELECTION.
Mr. GISBORNE moved that the special report of e,
the it V'
wich Election Committee be referred to a Select Comm
e
to select such parts of the evidence as they might deem tut
propriate (as we understood) to the cases of John Dsseu
and others implicated in the report of that Committee.'
A The to.
other Orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at One o'Clock.

THIC WEATHER.--A poor woman who lived IP
Dickinson bridge was found stretched on the floor of heal
house, quite lifeless ; and as the skin was excoriated on sever,.
parts of her head and face, there is little doubt but that the
was killed by lightning.—Manchester Guardian.
THE INDIA-RUBBER BOAT.-44 The boat
Na
invented," says the Providence Journal, "by Mr. Caleb Nv!
liams, jun., of this city, and was manufactured at the Inch";
rubber Factory, on Eddy's Point. It is constructed very 113,t1",
on the plan of Burden's steam-boat, with two inflated cylinoc';
of India-rubber cloth, connected on the top by five or
beams of light portable plank, which supports a deck of boar.
which may be procured at almost any places where the bog",
to be used. The whole apparatus weighs about twenty punt's'
The cylinders may be both inflated in from five to ten minus e,
and, when the air is discharged, may be folded in a valise
The rest of the apparatus may be conveniently carried io.t
bottom of a waggon or chaise. In addition to the whole ig
seat, on which the angler may sit, and hold his dominion.oset
the finny race. This boat will sustain at least one ton weighs,'
and, by enlarging the deck, would accommodate quite a paf,J•
The elasticity of the cylinders has been proved to be a prof
tion against their being punctured by snags and rocks.
Mechanics' Magazine.

BIRTHS.
On the 15th inst., in Russell-square, the wife of Edmund I/.
Daniell, Esq., of a dauOter.
On the 14th inst., in linrk-place, the lady of William 130°14
Esq., of a son. Ef4 °f
On the 12th inst., the lady of James Wentworth Buller,
a son and heir.
On the 12th inst., Mrs. James Block, of a daughter. o.
On the 13th inst., in Grenville-street, Brunswick-square,
George Cook, of a son.

MARRIED.
On the 9th inst., William Claxton, Esq., of Bristol, to --11:1,en.
Nairne, fourth daughter of the late Charles Kyd Bishop,
of the Island of Barbadoes.
On the 11th inst., at Clapham Church, John James de Loacl‘ei:l
Esq., of Vught, in the Kingdom of Holland, to Ellen, youlc
daughter of the late Thomas Selby, Esq., of Otford Castle,

DIED.
On the 13th inst., at Eltham, Kent, Mrs. Bell, of 3, Clevelent
row, St. James's, after many months of severe illness, to the grv-
grief of her afflicted husband and children.
On the 15th inst., at the house of his brother, the Hon. and
e
R. B. Stopford, Cloisters, Windsor Castle, the Earl of Courteillb
K.P., in his 70th year.
On the 14th inst., in Saville-row, Margaret, widow of Tim
Brent, Esq.
On the 14th inst., Anthony Merry, Esq., of Dedham 14°°°'
Essex.
On the 14th inst., at Ipswich, in his 90th year, John Cobb°id,
Esq., of Holywells, near that town. v.;r 'et
On the 13th inst., at Wakehurst-place, Sussex, John C.
the infant son of John Fairlie, Esq. aged 13 days.
On the 12th inst., at Hull, agedBo, Isabella, widow of the late
Captain Wlliam Pounsbu.
Oni the 113th inst.,
n his 90th year, John Inge, Esq., of the
Charter-house, near Coventry.
of Tate
On the 12th inst., in his 74th year, Mr. John Peeke,
ton Foliott, formerly of Penn cross Barton. The deceased I?:
seen on horseback on the road leading from Knackersknowle to or
Budeaux, on Friday evening last, about nine o'clock, by a lad. res 2:
dent at Knackersknowle, and on the following morning the,5",12i0-'
lad found his body lying across the leat which skirts the rote, "
horse grazing by his side. . , ;
London : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of
',
,
112 Strand, at The Sue Office, No. 112, Strand, in the cowl
of Iliddlesex.

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