The Sun.
London, England, 1832-05-25 00:00:00

CABINET MAKERS' SOCIETY, 71, LEADEN

HALL-STREET.
R. THURNELL respectfully solicits the
Nobility and Gentry to inspect the largest and
best-selected Stock of Cabinet and Upholstery Goods in
England, at the CABINET-MAKERS' SOCIETY, '7l ,
Leadenhall-street, City, which Society is enrolled agree-
ably to Act of Parliament, and founded fbr the support
and encouragement of industrious Mechanics, who all com-
bine to produce only the very be,t Articles, provide for its
Members in sickness, old age, and burial, and for survivors
at death. By order of the Trustees,
THOS. HASLER, Secretary,
71,ILeadenhall-street, City.
Full size mahogany four- Servants' chest of
post bedstead £3 15 0 drawers £2 2 0
Ditto tent bedstead 1 6 0 Mahogany Pembroke
Ditto with firrniture 3 15 0: table 1 16 0
Bordered straw mattress Mahogany dining table 3 3 0
to fit
Hair mattress to fit
Featherbead, free from Cellaret sideboard .....
dust 3 10 6 Pedestal ditto 10 10 0
Three feet six featherbed 2 12 o;Set oftour feet mahogany
Four feet six hair mattress 210 0 dining tables, 11 feet
Four feet six best ditto, I 6 long 14 10 0
in tick
Four feet six flock bed IMusic stool, in morocco... 1 5 0
and bolster 1 10 OSandwich tray 1 8 0
Six japanned chairs in oil, IButler's ditto
any colour 1 6 0 Eight Trafalgar chairs...lo 10 0
Best japanned dressing ' Ditto drawing.room, each 0 18 0
table 0 16 0: Drawing room couch .... 5 5 0
Ditto wash-hand ditto
Common ditto 0 8 0 Common ditto 0 4 6
Ditto dress'ng table ...... 0 8 0 Rosewood tables, in 100,
Three feet zhest maho. I card, and sofa l9 0 0
gany drawers 2 19 0 Ditto ditto .... .............. 21 10 0
Three feet six ditto 316 0 Elegant drawing-room
6 6 0
Mahogany box glass, two ' curtains
drawers 0 15 0: Rosewood caddies,of
Mahogany night conve- 1 fancy wood, from 18s.to 18 0
mence 1 4 o:lmitation ditto, Canter-
-1 12 0
Ditto with three steps
Ditto bidet and pan
166
601 japanned
saphanored nyrodsiett*o...d... .
Bed-room sofa bedstead, i fonier ..............•.• 310 ... 210 0
0
mattress to fit, with top 3 8 U' Ditto ditto .... ............. ..
1. rench _ bedstead, ja- _ Lady's work table, c..h..i.f... 112 0
Ditto ditto
ma- 1 15 0

panned 2 2 0
Bamboo tent bedstead 1 12 0
Five feet mahogany four-
.

hogany .......... ? .......... _ _
Ditto, silk and fringed... 9 3
Large winged wardrobes:
0 6 0

post and -furniture,
French draperies and
silk fringe 14 14 (
All featherbeds warrante!
••• Old Furniture

Japanned book shelves...
Rosewood ditto ......... 010 6
Loo tables... (upwards)... 6 0 0
free from dust and strrelL
taken in exchange.

GEOFFREY CRAYON'S NEW SKETCII-BOOK,
&;;. —Just published by HENRY COLEUNN and RIC:HAND
BENTLEY, New Burlington-street :-1. The New Sketch-
Book (The Alhambra), by GEOFFREY CRAYON, 2 vole.
Svo. uniformly with the former series, 245. 2. The Con-
trast, by the author of Matilda," &c. 3 vols. 3. Arling-
ton, by the author of " Granby," &o. 3 vols. 4. Stanley
Buxton, by JOHN GALT, El. 3 vole. 5. Tales of the
Early Ages, by the author of " Bratnbletye House," &C.
3 vuls. 6. The Younger Son, 3 vols. 7. Sir Ralph
Esher, or, Adventures of a Gentleman of the Court. of
Charles 11. By LEIGH HUNT, 3 vol'. tt A very clear
and life-like pictUre of the Chief actors and acts of the
great drama of those stirring times.".-Atheneum.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that he had a
node*, upon their Lordships' books on the state of the
nation. He wished to alter both the words of that no-
tice, and the day cf its coming forward. He should propose
that the language of the notice be altered to something of
this sort :—" On the subject of an undue creation of Peers."
The day he was wiling to postpone to whenever it would
he most for their Lordships' convenience to entertain the
question.
Tt.e Earl of SHAFTESBURY—It was only a notice,
you may alter it as you please.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE—I beg to move that
it stand so altered, then, and that your Lordships be sum-
moned for to-morrow week.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.

The Bishop of BRISTOL said, that he hail to present
a petition against the system of education proposed to be
adopted in Ireland. It was signed by three thousand
persons resident in Bristol and its neighbourhood, and was
adopted at a meeting consisting of 11,000 persons.
Lord RADNOR hoped that it would not be under-
stood that, in permitting this petition to be laid upon
the table, Noble Lords assented to the statements it con-
tained, for he knew that many of them were erroneous.
Lord RODEN believed that every statement of the pe-
tition was founded on fact, and that it merely set forth
the sentiments of a large proportion of the Protestants
of the three kingdoms. The Noble Baron (Lord King)
opposite had told them the other night, that in consequence
of the Reform Bill they would have no more of these
petitions, but he roust now see that he was mis-
taken, and that more still would be presented against the
infamous 5)5 em, as he must call it, of drpriving the Irish
of the use of the unmutilated word of God in education.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA had been requested to

support this petition. It stated the number of children to
have been educated under the Kildare-street Society
system at 800,000. He believed this statement to be
far short of the actual number t 450,000 would he much
nearer the mark. He agreed most cordially with the
prayer of the petition, and he trusted there would be an
ample opportunity afforded of fully discussing this ques-
tion before any decisive steps were taken.
The Earl of RADNOR begged to read one line of the
petition to the House. It was against the system, on the
ground of its providing for teaching the peculiar doctrines
of the Church of Rome, but be did not believe this alle-
gation.
Lord WINCHILSEA'S principal objection to the sys-
tem was, that of the Bible not being allowed to be ria,l as
a whole.

Lord BE XLE Y did not know how anything
could be made nearer to the teaching of the doctrines of
the Church of Rome, than requiring the children to bring
certificates that they had attended mass.
The Marquess of LANSDOWNE observe] that the
army regulations were exactly similar. if the soldiers '
did not go to the Protestant church, they were required
to go to a Roman Catholic place of worship ; and it might
just as well be said, that as such discipline prevailed in
the army, there was a desire to diffuse the doctrines of
the Roman Catholic church throughout the soldiery.
Lo►d KING said that the Right Rev. Prelate had in-
troduced this petition as a petition against the system, on
the ground that the system proscribed the use i.f the Scrip-
tures. NJw this was a total mistatement, because no
such word as proscribe was to be found in the petition.
What he (Lord King) had said on a former night, he now
repeated, that a certain party having failed in their at-
tempt to trip up and overthrow the Government, the
House would not hear of many more petitions such as this.
They were only useless effusions, and perfectly unnecessary.
The Marquess of LONDONDERRY thought it was
unfair to call the constitutional expression of opinion, em
bodied in so many petitions from all parts of the kingdom,
useless effusions for party purposes.
Lord SUFFIELD said, that under the system pursued
by the Kildare-street Society, a source of great complaint
and irritation was, the practice of some Protestant Clergy-
men finding their way into schools during the hours of
education, and attempting to proselytize the Catholic
children. _ _

The Bishop of EXETER contended that the system
gave aid to schools in whick the peculiar doctrines of the
Church of Rome were taught to the children.
The Marquise; of DOWNSHIRE, as President of the
Kildare-street Society, defended that Society from the
charge of allowing Protestant clergymen to go into the
school to make proselytes of the Roman Catholic children.
Earl RODEN presented a petition to the same effect
from the Presbytery of Glasgow.
The Marqmss of LANSDOWNE said that both in
Glasgow and Edinburgh the feeling was strongly in favour
of the system of education adopted by the Government.
As a proof it, a meeting was got up by the Pi incipal of
the Colle4e at Glasgow to pass resolutions against the plan ;
and the motion of the Rev. Dotter was negatived by an
immense majority.—(Hear.) The same attempt was
made at Edinburgh, and the result was equally in favour
of the Ministerial Van. Indeed he had no hesitation in
saying that the great majority of the educated cLss of so-
ciety were in favour of the measure.
The Earl of MINTO said the general feeling of the
people of Scotland was decidedly in favour of the new
plan. They looked upon education as one of the surest
means of leading to a religious and moral life, and thought
it was advisable to yield a little to certain prejudices, for
the purpose of obtaining a great good. In that part of
the country from which he came the feeling was strongly
in favour of it. As a proof, an influential clergyman in-
timated his intention of moving resolutions in the Synod
of Met se and Tiviotdale against the system ; but, on find-
ing that another clergyman would move counter resolu-
tions., he abandoned his intention.
The LORD CHANCELLOR postponed the third read-
ing of the Zeixiindar of Noz ed Bill till this day week.
COLONIAL SLAVERY.

The LORD CHANCELLOR presented a petition,
signed by 135,000 persons, praying for the abolition of
slavery at the earliest possible period compatible with ju-
dicial restraint. The petition was got up about a month
ago, and, in addition to the prayer which he had read,
deprecated any delay likely to ensue from the Committee
appointed to inquire on the subject.
The Earl of HAREWOOD said the Committee bad
been appointed for the purpose of obtaining information,
and setting the mind of the public right on the subject.
He was against any hasty and indiscreet emancipation, be-
cause he knew it would be productive of great es ils.
The Earl of SUFFIELD said the petition was one

the longest ever presented, and would cover half a mile
00 their Lordship' t laugh)—on the ground.
He had twenty-one petitions on the same subject to pre-
sent, some of them signed by 6,000 persons. In allusion
to the Committee lately appointed, he would enter his
protest against it. It was moved by a Noble Lord who
possessed West India property. Most of the members and
the witnesses were in the same situation.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said the Noble Earl was out
of order in bringing such a charge against a Committee
appointed by their Lordship.
The Earl of SUFFIELD said he would not, in that
case, say
not think the Committee would serve any good purpose,
more on that subject, and only add that he did

The House went into Committee on this Bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR proposed the insertion of
certain words in the 18th clause, to prevent the possibility ,
of bona fide freeholders being deprived of their rights
the operation of this clause.
Lord WYNFORD did not think the difficulty would
be entirely obviated by the amendment.
After some farther discussion between the Noble and
Learned Lords, and some others, respecting the strict arid
technical construction of the clause, the clause, as amended
was agreed to.
The 19th, the 20th, the 21st, the 22d, and the 23d
clauses, were agreed to, and ordered to, stand parts of thl
Bill.
On the motion that the 24th clause stand part of the Bill'
Lord WHARNCLIFFE rose to propose an amendment.
Their Lordships ought at least to take care that whir
they enfranchised towns the agricultural interest wou!d
not suffer. It was a principle of the Constitution that
each interest should send its separate representatives t-
Parliament. By this clause, however, a great prepon-
derance would be given to the influence of residents in
towns in the election of Members for counties. Even as
the law now stood, that influence was too great; and in
support of that opinion he quoted the declaration of the
Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack when he was the
candidate for Yorkshire, that he did not think it so neces-
sary to canvass the 'squires as the great towns, such
as Sheffield, Leeds, and Huddersfield, where thousands of
the freeholders resided. He proposed, as an amendment,
a proviso, that nothing in the Bill should give to
any one a right to vote for a knight of the shire
in respect to any lands or tenements he might possess in
any borough or town returning Members to Parliament.
He admitted that this would disfranchise many inni-
viduals Toad the counties, but then they would retain
their franchises for boroughs or towns. The division of
the counties w mild increase the evil of which be corn
plained. In proof of this the Noble Lord instanced the
county of Warwick; and observed with reference to Bir-
mingham and Coventry, that he felt the greater jealousy
towards those places in consequence of their being among
the principal seats of those Political Unions which had
almost usurp. d the powers of Government. What he
wished fur was to give to the constituency the fair right
of choosing their own Members, and not to allow the
borough constituency to interfere with them. Whether
or not his proposition would be received, depended entirely
on the Noble Lords opposite ; for he was quite aware that
in the present state of the House and the country he and
the Noble Lords who thought with him had no means of

forcing any Amendments to the Bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR expressed his sense o'
the candour and fairness with which his Noble Friend had
treated the question under consideration. If he were to
look at only one point of the subject, he might take much
the same view of it that his Noble Friend had done; but
looking at all the circumstances of the case it was out of
his power to do so. Let it be recollected that the pro-
posed Bill did not make all the alterations which his Nobl.
Friend attributed to it. All forty-shilling freeholders re
siding in towns bad now the right of voting for coun-
ties. With respect to the county of York, he admitted,
therefore, that he had said, whoever was sure of the towns
of Sheffield, Leeds, and Huddersfield, had a great
chance of being returned for the county. The improve-
ment crested by the clause was very great. The
only question was, if it went far enough. The charge
therefore against it wa., not that it did wrong, but that
it did not do so much good as it might. The Noble awl
Learned Lord proceeded to argue, that the agricultural
interest, so far from soft*, ring loss, would be greatly bene-
fited by the Bi!l. He knew that in the county of York,
where the representation was formerly influenced by the
great towns, the six Members would be much more under
the control of the landed interest ; while in Lancashire,
of which he had some knowledge, two out of the foul
county Members would unquestionably be agricultural.
He thought, indeed, at the advantages gained by the
landed interest had been much underrated, rather than
overrated, by the suuporters of the :Bill. In all discus
sions or inquiries on the subject, it should not be forgotten.
too, that the practice of including the inhabitants of
districts round the boroughs among the voters of the bo
roughs, would give a very considerable bias to the repte-
sentation, and add to the balance in favour of the landed
interest. It was, indeed, one of the peculiar merits of the
Bill, that it united, by various gradations, all interests it:
the country, so as to give a just and effective represen-

tation.
Lord WYNFORD contended that the Noble and
Learned Lord had not answered one of the objections
urged by the Noble Baron to the most ruinous portion of
the Bill. The Noble and Learned Lord (Brougham)
contended that the agriculturists, so far front being in-
jured, bad actually received a boon. He knew not what
that boon was, but he saw that the manufacturers had
received a boon at the expence of the agriculturists.
Were the 65 new boroughs nothing in favour of the ma-
nufacturers ?--(Hear.) Already the influence of tit.
towns was great, in the election of County Members. It
was impossible to look at the lot: contests in Cambridg,
and Dorset without seeing the influence of the towns ;
and how much greater would he that influence after tin
passing of that Bill, with a clause such as that now
before them ? How, too, was the clause worded ? He
would ask the Noble and Learned Lord who knew
as much of the technicalities used by conveyancers as
any moan did—he would ask him to look at the
clause, and say, whether it was not the most loosely
worded of any he had ever seen in the Act of Parlia-
ment? Let the Noble and Learned Lord look at the words,
" Any house, warehouse, or other• buildings." Now it
might happen according to this clause, that a person might
have a vote in a town for his dwelling-house, and a von,
fur the county in right of his buildings. He would ask,
was that double vote just ? Was it reasonable? or was it
in accordance with the avowed principles of the Bill ? Was
it right to give a double vote of this kind to voters living
in towns, when neatly one-half of the inhabitants of Eng-
land were altogether excluded front exercising such a pri-
vilege, and shut out of the pale of the Constitution ? He
thought that this was grosss injustice. It was pos.
sable, indeed, when the Bill passed, that although one-
half of the inhabitants of the kingdom bad no vote,
there might be residents of London who would have votes
for London, for• Lambeth, and for the county of Surrey,
with only one occupancy. These were some of the
effects of the Bill. The country had been deluded with
respect, to it; but he was confident it would not he long
before the people from every part of the kingdom would
appear at the bar with petitions to be relieved from the of
fects of this most unequal, ❑njust, and mischievous mea
sure, proposed by the Noble Lords opposite. He (Lord
Wynford) had always been a friend of Reform, always
an advocate for extensive Refarm in the representative sys-
tem ; but he could not consent to place (as the Bill woulo
if the clause remained) all the agricultural interests of tht
country at the mercy of the manufacturers. He wont
have destroyed all corrupt boroughs ; all those in which
the right of voting had been made an object of sale ; Inv
he could not see the propriety of destroying all those bu.
roughs called nomination boroughs, which had been uses
as property purely un conservative grounds, and for the
preservation of the rights of the landed interests of tht
country. It was said by the Noble and Learned Lord,

The Bishop of LONDON was not pi epared to go along
with the Noble and Learned Lord in his ptoposition for
rejecting the Bill on the third reatlinc, because th • offered
amendments were not agreed to, but he confessed be was
not without his misgivings on the disadvantages of tie
clause then under consideration. He had no objection to
give those who held a qualification, but yet were residents
in boroughs, a vote for counties, hut be could not a+sent
to the double vote, nor did he think it was in accordance
with the principle of the Bill.—(Hear.)
Lord HOLLAND observed, that the Noble and Learned
Lord (Wynford) had, in the course of his argnmect (.0
that occasion, displayed tlie same ignorance of the consti-
tutional history of the country which he (Lord Holland)
had more than once remarked in the addresses w th which
the Noble and Learned Lord had favoured the House.—
(Hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord said that his Noble
and Learned Friend (Lord Brougham) had not answered
the objections of the Noble Baron, but lie contended that
the Noble and Learned Lord had answered them most
clearly and satisfactorily. Without dwelling on the advan-
tages cone, dell to the agriculturists, with respect to
leaseholders and copyholders, he was prepared to prove that
the agriculturists would gain largely in actual representa-
tion. The Noble and Learned Lord had talked of consti-
tutional representation. In what portion of the Noble
Lord's constitutional history did he find it stated that the
nomination boroughs were part of the agricultural repre-
sentation? On what authority did the Noble and Learned
Lord state that? He (Lord Holland) denied it in the
strongest manner. These borouAlis did not belong to the
agricultural interests—they belonged to any one who had
money to purchase them.—(Hear, bear.) They were the
mere objects of batter and sale. Their roters were the
:laves of any master.—(Hear.) The nomination boroughs
were any man's property as the defenders of any right:.
They were the representatives of that which has been de-
scribed "As mine, as his, and as having been slave to
thousands;" and they formed no part of the landed any
more than the other interests of the country. But how did
the Bill injure the landed interests? Why, it actually give
sixty-five Members to the county interests, anl took away
seventy-eight from the borough interests. Was this de-
priving the agriculturists of their fair share of the repre-
sentation ? The Noble Lord having observed that the
Noble and Learned Lord (Wynford) had displayed an ig-
norance of the provisions of the Bill, then proceeded to
argue that the boroughs would have no greater number of
residents entitled to vote for counties as well as boroughs
titan they had befiTe.
_ _ _

Lord WHARNCLIFFE said : Yew, all 201. leaselio!derv.

Lord HOLLAND denied this; but, having consulted
with the Lord Chancellor fur a moment, be observed, that
he believed it was not so—but the time was coming when
it would be argued more fully.—(A laugh.) All he would
tot), was, that the answer of his Noble and Learned' Friend
(the Lord Chancellor) stewed to him to be perfectly satis-
factory as a refutation of the statements of the Noble Baron.
Lord WYNFORD complained that the Noble' Baron
had matte observations on him which were not warranted,
and that he bad violated the courtesy of the House in not
addressing himself to the subject rather than to 'comments
on his ignorance as an individual. With resptct to what
be had said on the subject of nomination boroughs, he
would repeat, that he believed these boroughs in general
were the property of great landholders, and used for the
protection of the landed interests, but he had not said they
were a part of the landed representation.
The Earl of MALAIESBURY contended that a great
proportion of the county representation would, if the
clause remained unaltered, become suliservient to the 111,1••
nufacturing interests. In Hampshire, with which he was

connected, he knew that the ►aunty interest had always
been compelled to struggle with the power of the dock-
yards at Portsmouth in the contest for the Members ; and
he was convinced that the Members for the southern di-
vision of the county, wadi now be wholly in the in.
terest of the towns. Of the whole representation, he had
calculated there would only be 129 Members left to sup-
port the landed interest.
_ _

The Eatl of WARWICK stated in what manner this
clause would apply to the county from which he derived
his title, and complained that the voters from Birmingham
and Coventry would overwhelm the electors of the agri-
cultural districts.

Lord SEAGRAVE, having formerly represented
Gloucestershire, could say, from his own exyerieuce, that
the danger there to the agricultural interest was by no
means so great as the Noble Earl (31almesbury) seemed to

:inticipate: He also stated, that at Stroud there was no
wish to return a Member conneet,d with manufactures,

and the voters to be created by the Hill had actually fixed
upon one individual, if not more, whose property and
connexion were purely agricultural.
The Eatl of RADNOR contended that the arguments

Noble Lords on the other side, if good for anything, went
to the extent that the manufa, turing intrrests ought not
to be represented at all. As to what the Noble Lotd
(Wynford) hail sai4 about nomination, or, as he would
call them, rotten boroughs, that they ought to bepreseived,
as they gave additional and beneficial influence to the agri-
cultural interest, it was remarkable in what various wan
these unfortunate blemishes of the Constitution were used.
At one time it was asserted that they were useful, because

'hey aTforded the means of more fully representing the
landed interest ; at another that they gave Menthers to the
moneyed interest ; at a third, that they lormtd the only
mode by which the voice of the Colonies could be heard ;
at a fourth, that they were advantageous to the East India
Comrny ; at a fifth, to the Bank of England ; and at a
sixth, that they were the nurseries of sucking statesmen.—
(Cheers and laughter.) Cettainly Noble Lords on the
other side had every rt ason to be grateful to rotten bo-
roughs, and not least fur the convenient manner in which
they were applicable in argumeu*.—(Cheers.)
The Eari of CARNARVON argued, that in the forma-
tion of the Bill, nothing like impartiality had been shown,
inasmuch as the landed interest was entirely neg'ected,
while the manufacturing interest olrained a most undue
preponderance. The agricultural districts in the neigh-
bourhood of great towns—as it were under their guns—
would be inundated with voters who had no connexion
whatever with the soil, and whose wishes mustb opposed
to those engaged in husbandry. The object ought to have
been to pre,.erve an equilibrium, and that constitution was
the best whiclt equalivd all, giving strength to the weak,
and controlling the powerful.
Lord KING was of opinion, that if the amendment
were &tallied, it would, in many cases, deprive a man who
had now a right to vote for four Members, of that right,
and only allow him to vote for one Member.
The Earl of HADDINGTON referred to the Scotch
Reform Bill yet before the other House of Parliament, in
which a clause had actually been laserted by the framers,
carrying into tffeet the very object of his Noble Friend's
tniendnient. He could not see why one principle was ap-
plied to England, and another to Scotland.
The Earl of CAMPERDOWN retna,ked, that the
cases of Scotland and England, in this respect, were by
no means parallel. The right of voting in Scotland was

peculiar.
The LORD CHANCELLOR adverted more particu-
larly to the distinction in the right of voting in the two
countries. The description of freeholders known in
England did not exist in Scotland, and the Scotch Bill
.vas therefore adapted to the circumstances of the country.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE made a few rattail:3 in reply.
After which the Committee divided—
For the Amendment
Ag lust it St
Maj,lrity -61

Clauses 25 and 26 were agreed to. On clause 27,
Lord WHARNCLIFFE ststed, that he had several
amendments to pruh.r•e, and he suggested the propriety of
adjourning.
Ea' I GREY consented.
The House resumed, and their Lordships adjourned at a
Qum- er to Twt lye o'Clock.