The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-22 00:00:00

IRISH TITHE BILL.

Petitions against this Bill were presented from several places
in Ireland by Lord Farnham, Lord Wharncliffe, and several
other Noble Lords.

NEW SOUTH WALES.

The Duke of RICHMOND begged to ask the Noble Lord,
the Secretary for the Colonies, whether he had any objection to
lay on the table any documents connected with the state of the
persons transported to New South Wales?
Lord GLE NE LG had no objection to do so.
TONNAGE ADMEASCREMENT BILL.
On the motion of Lord AUCKLAND, this Bill was read
a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday next.

WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.
On the motion of the Earl of DEVON, the Weights and
Measures Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted on Monday.

MILITIA STAFF.
On the motion of Viscount DUNCANNON, the Militia
Staff Reduction Bill was read a third time and passed.
TITHE ON TURNIPS.
The Duke of RICHMOND moved that their Lordships be
summoned for Monday next, on the second reading of this
Bill.

Lord ASHBURTON hoped the Bill would not be pressed
this Session, as the principle was of a very objectionable na-
ture.

The Duke of RICHMOND defended the principle of
the Bill, as the decision of some of the Courts of Law which
were in favour of the clergy men were altered by circumstances
of very great hardship to the agriculturists of England. The
decisions had excited very considerable alarm, and it was ne-
cessary the law upon the subject should be set at rest.
Lord ROSSL YN objected to the Bill.
The Earl of WICKLOW said in Ireland the Courts of
Law would not recognise any claim for tithes which was not
founded upon custom and usage. The Bill was one of great
importance, and he hoped it would be postponed, to give
their Lordships time to consider its details.
The Earl of DEVON thought the decision of Lord Lynd-
hurst alluded to was rather extraordinary, but time should be
given to look over the Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND would not consent to postpone
the Bill to next Session, but if it would suit the convenience
of the Noble and Learned Lords opposite, he should take the
discussion on Wednesday next.
Lord ASHBURTON pointed out at some length the ob-
jections to the Bill, which he contended would be an in-
fringement on the rights of private property.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY thought the discussion at
this stage was premature, and the conversation dropped.
Mr. BERNAL and others from the Commons, brought up
the Cessio Bonorum and other Bills, to which the House of
Commons desired their Lordships' concurrence.
The Bills on the table were advanced a stage, and the House
then adjourned to Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Atrausr 21.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock.
ORANGE LODGES.
The Sergeant-at-Arms appeared at the Bar, and on being
called to the table, stated that in pursuance to the SPEAKER'S
warrant, he had proceeded to the house of Colonel Fairman,
for the purpose of taking him into custody, but had not
been able to secure him. He had left two officers at
the House who watched alternately, but up to the present mo-
ment they had been unable to take him into custody.
On the motion of Sir J. Y. BULLER, the Tormohan Im-
provement Bill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. RUTHVEN presented a petition from Downpatrick
complaining of the conduct of several of the magistrates of that
part of the country.
TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE.
Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from the parishes of
St. Margaret's and St. John's, Westminster, praying for a
Repeal of the Taxes on Newspapers. As the Hon. Member for
Lincoln had a motion upon the subject for that evening, he
should not make any observations upon the prayer of the peti-
tion. Also a petition from Robert Dawson of Birmingham,
complaining of the unequal distribution of land in New South
Wales.—Referred to General Darling's Committee.
THE FACTORY BILL.
Mr. AG L lONBY presented a petition from the operatives
of Preston complaining of the working of the present Factory
Bill, and praying that the time of labour might be limited to
ten hours. The petitioners also complained of statements
made by Mr. Richards, one of the Factory Commissioners,
which they represented as very exaggerated.'
TAXES ON KNOWLEDGE.
Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from an individual,
named James Marsh, praying for an alteration in the law of
patents. He had also a petition to present from John Cleave,
the individual whose type and presses bad been seized for
selltng unstaciped papers ; but as the Right lion. the Chan-
cellor .4f th,! I.:xchequer was not in his place, he ( Mr. W.)
should defer presenting it till Monday next.
Mr. T. KEMP presented a petition from 188 respectable
inhabitants of Brighton, praying for a Repeal of the Taxes on
Knowledge,
Sir .1. BECKETT presented a petition from 600 inhabi-
tants of Leeds, praying that no Bill might pass for the aboli-
tion of local Ecclesiastical Courts in England.
Mr. TOOKE presented a petition from Truro most res-
pectably and numerously signed, praying that the Municipal
Corporation Bill ►night pass in its original shape, and that that
House would stay the granting of the remaining supplies
until the Bill had received the Royal Assent, as the only
means of preventing the most disastrous results.--( Hear.)
Mr. WI LK S presented a petition from the Baptist Dis-
senters of Burton Latimere, complaining of the conduct of
the Protestant curate and churchwardens of the parish, in
refusing to admit the Dissenting clergyman, the Rev. David
Reece, to the churchyard, to perform the funeral ceremony over
one of his deceased perishioners.

KERRY ELECTION.
Mr. SC ARL ETT said he had a most important petition to
present from the County of Kerry, complaining of the most
extraordinary violation of the freedom of election in that
county upon a late occasion—intimidation which was so ex-
cessive as to preclude the parties from applying for the redress
they might have had under the Grenville Act—the intimidation
did not consist of open violence, but was worked much more.
insidiously by means of the Clergy. They worked upon rat
he was afraid he must call the superstitions of the people, for
political purposes. He would proceed to read the petition, R 3
it spoke in more forcible language than he (M: S.) could use.
Every one who would vote for the Kni7l:‘ of Kerry should
have a death's head and cross bones pa'.at'etl on his door. Da
niel O'Connell, Esq., had rece,Amended exclusive deal-
ing, and that all who voted for Mr. M. Fitzgerald should
be shut out from society: Several priests denied the
rites of baptism and hurial to all who should do so, and
others denounced them from the altar.—( Hear, hear. )
The Hon. and Learner?. Member proceeded to say that to this
petition were appen,:ted the names of every Protestant free-
holder of the cour.ty of Kerry, and those of several very re-
spectable Ronw,l Catholics, as well as the great body of
the MagistrE,es. They offered to prove every allegation
by the mr'st correct and undoubted evidence, and added
that it was not their fault that they had not been proved
akesiy, as they entertained a hope that this case would have
been taken into consideration by the Intimidation Committee,
and they had only lately understood that by a resolution of that
Committee they could only examine two witnesses in each
case. Two witnesses had been produced, and they had com-
pletely substantiated several allegations in the petition, parti-
cularly those which represented the Hon. Member for Dublin
to have spoken in the way they had described at a public
meeting in Tralee. With these observations he would leave
the case in the hands of the House, in the hope that in the
next session such a remedy would be proposed, as the nature
of the case imperitmsly demanded. The Hon. and Learned
Member then 'presented a petition from the Knight of Kerry,
to the sam-, effect.
Mr. ORD said that as reference had been made, something
in tbe nature of a compliment, to the Committee of which he
was Chairman, he felt called upon to offer some explanation.
He felt it due to them, as far as regarded the Committee,
that there was at all events no foundation for any complaint
of their proceedings. He must, in the first place, refer
to the Report of the Committee which was now lying
upon the table of the House, in which the Committee had
endeavoured to show to the House the nature of the
. inquiry that had taken place before them, and to disclaim on
their part any intention to make the Committee a means for
personal charges. It was rather the object of the Committee to

Obtain such evidence as would enable the House to institute some

remedy for what had taken place. On taking into consideration
the question of bribery, all charges against particular indivi-
duals were thrown on one side, and only those indivi-
duals we're selected to c evidence who cc id j oi.ut out

general acts of bribery on both sides. With regard to the
limitation of the evidence upon the ease of Kerry to two
witnesses, it was impossible for the Committee, consistent with
the rule they had laid down, to go into the case of Kerry, as
long as an inquiry was pending on the subject. The Commit-
tee postponed taking into consideration many cases with resn,,ct
to different parts of Ireland on that ground. As soon 6it
was known the proceedings had dropped, the Committee or
dered the attendance of the Inspector of Police; a good deal
of the evidence of that individual referred to the county of
Kerry ; but in consequence of the witnesses becoming so nu-
merous, the Committee felt it necessary to limit its enquiry
to those who would give them general information on the sub-
ject. The Knight of Kerry had stated his desire to have all
his witnesses heard, but the Committee thought that, consi-
dering the state of parties, it would be impossible for them to
hear all the witnesses.
[The SPEAKER was here summoned to the House of Lords,
and on his return, enumerated the Bills which had received the
Royal assent, for which see our Lords' Report.]
Mr. ORD resumed ; the allegation contained in the petition
had not only not been proved, but had actually been disproved
before the Committee. It was, however, for the House
to say whether the petition contained allegations of
sufficient importance to send the whole matter before
a Committee. He felt that it was strange the parties should
state, that in consequence of the intimidation which had pre-
vailed they had been unable to take advantage of the Gren-
ville Act, and yet should now offer to give information before
a Committee of that House. He moved that the debate be
adjourned.
Mr. O'CONNELL would only say that a more gross, a
more scandalous petition, had never been presented to that
House.—[The Hon. Member threw the petition on the table,
apparently much excited.]
Mr. JACKSON said that he had served upon the Com-
mittee of which the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Ord) was
Chairman, and he felt bound to corroborate the statements
made by that Hon. Gentleman. It was clear that that Com-
mittee could not afford any redress.
Mr. O'CONNELL rose to order. If the question was to
be debated—let it be so. He had only said one word upon the
motion of adjournment.
The debate was adjourned till Tuesday next.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that the House at its rising do
adjourn until to-morrow.
THE RECORDER OF DUBLIN.

Mr. HUME had given notice that he should submit a
motion to this House, with a view to obtain a certain letter-
book respecting Orange Lodges, which was a document of
great importance ; but he understood that the person in whose
custody that book was said to be, was not to be found. He
therefore could not with any effect or propriety proceed with
his motion, but could only leave every man to form
his own judgement of the case.—(Loud cries of " Hear,
hear.") He should now proceed to present a petition from
the bankers, merchants, and citizens of Dublin, signed by
20,000, complaining of the learned Recorder of that city, who
was now in his place in the House ; and although the
accusation on which it was founded originated in some alleged
speech at a private meeting, which he considered a matter
of small importance, yet he could not acquit himself of the duty
required of him without laying before the House the statements of
the petitioners. In the first place, they agreed to this
petition at a most numerous meeting of the inha-
bitants, and they declared themselves to be what he
hoped every man in the country was, anxious for the
reform of the institutions of the state. On a late occasion,
the Learned Recorder, delivered a speeck at a meeting,
which speech was reported by several newspapers friendly to him,
and contained words which were worthy of particular atten-
tion—they were to the following effect:—" Our opponents
are not to be despised, because they are active ; they are
restless in their conduct, and infidels in their belief, and
desirous of nothing but change." He had inquired into
the facts represented, and was certain that they would be
established clearly at the bar of the House. There was an ',;on.
Member present who had designated him and the Mem-
ber for Bridport as avowed infidels, so that such language
was not singular. They stated that the ofieial character of the
chief officer rendered such conduct r.ot only dangerous to the
liberty of the citizens, but it was contrary to the spirit of the
law ; and that judges might always to be impartially just,
whether of Orange or Radical, or any other party whatever.
The House must see that, if a Judge of the land, before whom
Jurors were assembled, designated them as infidels, and gave
them all those characters which he so liberally bestowed upon
others, would they not appear before him tainted with these
allegations? If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would only
change places—(Great laughter)—there was no one in that
House who could more ably show the impolicy of such con-
duct.—( Hear, hear.) The petitioners further stated that
his sitting in that House was incompatible with his
duties as a Judge, and that, therefore, as regarded
the due administration, they prayed that the House would
institute an inquiry with a view to place them in a si-
tuation to obtain equal justice.—( Hear, hear.) It
was for the Government to consider whether such a
state of things was any longer to continue. This was not
the first time he had expressed his opinion on this subject,
and it was not his fault that the Hon. and Learned Member
was now a Member of that House. He had endeavoured to
introduce an Act to prevent Judges sitting in that House.
The House did not think with him, and he had yielded to
the majority ; but he thought that the majority was wrong, as
it had been on many other occasions.—(Great cheering from
both sides of the House.) The petitioners complained that
they were aggrieved by the inefficient, irregular, and unsatis-
factory manner in which the Recorder performed his duty, and
this, they said, was owing to his attendance in Parliament.
They did not deny the Hon. and Learned Recorder's capacity
or talent, but they complained of his having a seat in the
House of Commons, and that whilst he attended that House
he could not, as a Judge, administer justice in his Court. As
long as he was allowed to sit in that House, and he (Mr. H.)
knew from experience how long and how often the Hon. and
Learned Recorder did sit—(Hear)—to that extent the course
of justice was impeded—the subjects were deprived of what
they were entitled to—a regular administration of justice, and
in his opinion the Government was to blame for allowing it.
They state further that the predecessors of the Hon. Gentleman
used to sit regularly every week, but since the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman became Recorder, a different course
had been adopted...—(Hear, hear.) Whether this were
the practice of his predecessors or not was of little
importance. The only question he wished to bring be-
fore the House was, whether it was fit and proper for
a gentleman acting as a Juslge to be allowed to absent
himself from time to tirn2, so long as the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman is known to do. He (Mr. H.) considered this
complaint to be perfectly well founded. The peti-
tioners stated that they were informed and believed that
this practice was contrary to the opinions of the most
intelligent of the local magistrates. And what were the
consequences that arose from this? A delay of justice ; and
they further stated, that the most unjustifiable oppression was
inflicted upon many innocent persons. They claimed from
the House that which was agreeable to the rights of
every individual, that no such delay should take place. He
( Mr. Hume) concurred in this prayer. The Hon. and
Learned Recorder must concur in it. If he divested himself
of the character of judge, and put himself in the
place of one who came to be tried, how would he
like to be detained for weeks, nay, for months longer
than he ought to have been. They further state that
several prisoners have been held over from month to
month ; that the judicial business had been interrupted ; and
they offered to prove that this was in consequence of the
Recorder taking part in the business of the nation. The
office of Recorder was in its nature incompatible with the duties
of a Member of Parliament, and in this he entirely concurred.
Could anything be a stronger appeal to the House than that?
If by any act of the Judge, the very sources of justice were poi-
soned, nay even open to suspicion, he would not say it did
take place, but if it was open to suspicion, the House was
bound to administer relief without delay.—( Loud cheers. )
There was now but one point more that he felt it
necessary to notice; the petitioner stated that the Judges of
the Superior Courts in Ireland, and the Master in Chancery
—(he was sorry to say it was not the case in this
country)—the i2ominissioners of the Insolvent Court and the
Recorders of all towns in Ireland were excluded from having
a seat in Parliament.—( Cheers.) If such was the case, it
w"
-s for the Right Honourable Gentleman to state how it
had occurred that his case was an exception.—(Cheers.)
He (Mr. Hume) thought the subject was one well worthy
of consideration.—( Hear.) If the appointment rested with
his Majesty's Government, he should say they had no excuse.
Unfortunately however the appointment rested with the Cor-
poration of Dublin, and such a Corporation it was—(Great
cheering)—a Corporation in his opinion totally unfit to be
the individuals to select a Judge.—( Hear, hear, and loud
cheers.) The petitioners further stated that the election being
by the Corporation, it afforded strong temptation to
men of reckless ambition to pander to the party who
bad appointed him, by holding a seat in Parliament.
The Right lion. Gentleman was a religious man, and no
doubt had often repeated the Lord's prayer. He would, there-
fore, recollect that part which said, " Lead us not into tempta-
tion."—( Cries of " Oh, oh," especially from Dr. Nicholl.)
Mr. HUME—Does the Hon. and Learned Doctor mean,
to deny the justice of that quotation ?—( Cheers.)
Dr. NIC HOLL—I mean to deny the necessity of it.
Mr. H U3lE—That only showed the difference of opinion.
He had thought it right to notice it, and further to state that
in the discharge of a public duty, and more especially in the
man who was to be the supporter of the purity of virtue, as little
temptation as possible should be given. The Hon. Gentle-
man concluded by stating that the subject was one well worthy
the consideration of his Majesty's Government and the House
at large.

SEIANV said that he had very little to complain of in
this petition, as far as he had been able to collect it ; perhaps
the House would be surprised to hear that he had never had an
opportunity of seeing the petition.
Mr. HUME remarked that the petition was printed in every
paper in Dublin.

Mr. SHAW thought the usual courtesy from one Member
to the other had not been shewn to him.
Mr. HUME rose amidst loud cries of " Order."
Mr. SHAW said the Hon. Member had brought the
charge against him with great pomp and solemnity.
He had no doubt but that many of the people out of doors--
of whom the Hon. Gentleman was supposed to be the Repre-
sentative—he had no doubt but that they were much
amused at the attacks made upon him, especially as they
knew he had formed one of the minority of that House, holding
opinions advcrse to those of the majority, who for the last few
weeks had been so mercifully administering the judicial func-
tions of that House.—(Laughter from the Tory side
of the House.) The charge against him was that he
had made a speech, the objectionable parts of which he
denied.—.(A laugh.) The next was that he was Recorder of
ard at the same time bad the honour of a seat in that ,

Douse.—( Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman hid informed the
House that the petition was signed by bankers, merchants, ar.d
others. He was informed—he had not seen the petition,—but
he was informed from Dublin that the manner in whirh
were obtained was this; it had been sent roiind tts all the public
houses on the Saturday night, where the wages were paid to
the labour-en, and they were compelled to sign the
petition,--( Hear, hear.) Not contented with that, on the
Sunday it was sent to every chapel door, rrtl one was
ailowed to enter the chapel, poler.! h either signed the peti-
tiod, or got some one nto it for him. It reminded him of
the petition Got up upon the occasion of the Dublin election,
when Emir sixteen to eighteen boys were seen rov,4nd
the chapel door, every one of whom signed thefe.k. rtition, and as
soon as they had gone through, tht 11,1'Si one began again, and
continued so for severe hours.—(A laugh.) Such was the
mode in which names were obtained to these petitions. He
would not go into the question as to whether or not the prig=ciple was good, that those engaged in the admln,istfatidri
justice should not take an active part in velitiVak affairs. With
respect to the language imputed CO hilb in the petition, he
could only repeat what he fwni stated before, that he did not
use the expressions aaaigned to him. He said this in perfect
recollection of what he had uttered. He would repeat what
he did say. The lion. Member had charged him with stating
that all those opposed to him in politics were revolutionistss
and infidels in religion. He had before denied to the n 6",
Gentleman that he had ever said so, and he therefore felt
bound to observe, that the conduct of 'Ail!: Hon. Member was
uncandid, and contrary to the COhrse usually pursued in this
House. The Hon. Member, however, might not be able to
understand the difference between the language which he teally
used and that which he (Mr. Hume) imputed to him. What
he (Mr. Shaw) really did say was, that the party opposed to
good order, the settlement of property, and the permanence
of the institutions of' the country, would be always joined by
the desperate in condition, the indifferent in religion, and the
revolutionary in politics, in the support of some of the measures
that had been brought forward.—( Hear, hear.) He had said
so a hundred times before, and he continued to think so still;
and notwithstanding the fear of the Hon. Member before his
eyes, he should continue to think and speak as he had previ-
ously done.—( Hear, hear.) This was what he had stated,
and it had been grossly misrepresented.
Mr. HUME— It is the same thing.—( Cries of " Order.")
Mr. SHAW was astonished that the Hon. Member did not
see the difference.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Shaw) did not
charge any one, but alluded to what was likely to be the union
of parties. The Hon. Gentleman, perhaps, did not think that
there was an infidel or a revolutionist in the country. If the
Hon. Gentleman did not understand the matter when put in a
logical form, he would endeavour to put it in another way, so
that, if possible, the Hon. Gentleman might comprehena it.
He would, therefore, tell the Hon. Member that if there were
such a person in the country as an infidel, that he would always
be found on the same side in polities as the Hon. Gentleman.
—(Hear, hear.) With respect to his being a judicial cha-
racter, he would not enter into the argument as regarded the
principle. If he were called upon to give an opinion on the
abstract principle, probably he should give one favourable to the
view taken by the Hon. Member for Middlesex. He had
never on any occasion wade his judicial duties subservient to
political or any other considerations.—( Hear hear.) He had
faithfully adhered to this.--( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
said that his ( Mr. S's) Court sat but seldom : now if he (Mr.
Hume) had referred to the Irish almanac, he would have seen 12
specific periods, at certain intervals, appointed for the sittings of
the court. Any one, by referring to this document, could tell on
what day the court sat ; no inconvenience could therefore arise
in that respect to any suitor or practitioner in the court. He
would add that he had never, on any one occasion, been in his
court one hour after that which had been .appointed. When
he was appointed Recorder of Dublin he found a great ar-
rear of
business, notwithstanding his predecessor—who, how-
had only held the office for a short time—sat every
fortnight. This was five years ago, and he had made great
exertions in clearing away the arrears, and had at last suc-
ceeded in doing so. Since that time, not one single case
could fairly be said to be in arrear for a sitigle hour, not-
withstanding the assertions of the Hon. Member.—( Hear,
hear.) He denied that constantly sitting, or sitting oftuer
than lie did, would be for any:good purpose, or for the public
convenience. Certainly it would not be so for either grand
or petty juries or prosecutors, and the utmost time that a
prisoner could remain in custody before trial was a month,
but the average time did not exceed a fortnight.• When-
ever he passed sentence, he always commenced the term of
imprisonment from the period before trial at which the pri-
soner was committed. He would not trouble the House at
greater length, nor would he touch upon the general princi-
ple so much dwelt on by the Hon. Member, but he would only
observe, that he trusted that as long as he held the judicial
office he now possessed, he should continue to enjoy the same
degree of confidence of his fellow-citizens which he now
possessed. —( Hear, hear.) He had abstained from attending
political meetings, and should continue to do so. Independ-
ently of his own elections, he had only on one occasion at-
tended on the hustings at a contested election, and that was
when a friend of his, who was a candidate for Dublin, was
ill and unable to attend for himself. If the Hon. Member
expected that he (Mr. Shaw) would sacrifice his political in-
dependence, in consequence of the course adopted by the
Hon. Gentleman, he was very much mistaken, for as long as
he continued in a judicial office, he should act with the same
independence that he had hitherto done.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL would not go into the question as to
one person exercising judicial and political functions. He
agreed that the question should not be made a personal matter,
but a general measure, excluding all holding judicial offices
from the House.
Mr. RUTH VEN supported the prayer of the petition.
Mr. JACKSON contended that the character of his Right
Hon. Friend stood too high to be affected by such charges as
were contained in the petition. It should be borne in mind
that the meeting, called upon the written request of the Hon.
Member for Dublin, founded its proceedings on the report of
a speech which his Hon. and Learned Friend had repudiated
over and over again. The meeting was attended by coal-
porters, who went armed with bludgeons and bayonets, and
who forcibly prevented Protestants from entering. A few
who did get in were set upon by these ruffians, and severely
beaten and wounded. He had received letters from some of
the medical men of Dublin, who informed him of the wounds
from which those who were maltreated on that occasion were
suffering. Could that be called a free expression of the sen-
timents of the people of Dublin, which was dictated by the
Dublin coal-porters, by paupers, and the very scum of the
earth ?—( Hear, hear, and oh 0 He did not assert that there
were not some very respectable names attached to the peti-
tion ;it was said there were—he knew nothing of them ; but
this he did know, that if there had been anything like free
discussion at the meeting, the issue would have been a very
different one.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, that the evil complained of
was in the system. All these inquiries tended to show that it
was essential the two characters, the judicial and the political,
should not be blended.—(Hear, hear.) He should attach no
importance to the petition net being signed by the merchants
and bankers of Dublin ; but if 20,000 of the coal-porters, and
scum of the earth alluded to by the Hon. arid Learned Ser-
geant had signed it, he should say that they were the very
persons who had a right to complain, inasmuch as it was of
great importance to them who presided over the criminal
courts of justice. It was not your merchants who were ar-
raigned at the criminal bar, nor your bankers ; it was those
men whose miseries engendered crime. He did not think the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman was charged with delaying jus-
tice; but it was said that his attendance in the court and the
discharge of his Parliamentary duties were incompatible.
Having taken his departure to attend to his judicial business in
Ireland—having possessed himself of a place in the mail, and
thrown himself into a steam-packet, and arrived in Dublin as
hot as the steam itself—(Laughter)—it might be imagined
that he called for the calendar, not a little anxious to dis-
cover its length and see what could be deferred, frowned
at the jury for their delay, and at last begged all the parties,
for God's sake, to expedite the business, to allow him to re-
turn to London, and vote in the division which was to take
place the day after to-morrow—(Laughter)—otherwise he
might lose the place of a judge, or the benefit of making a speech.
—( Laughter.) He hoped the rule would be applied generally
of not allowing Recorders scats in Parliament. But if they
were not to have Recorders in the House of Commons, he
thought they ought not to have law judges in the House of
Lords.—( Hear, hear.) Did they not find this, that all who
had been or who were now judges were the most troublesome
of the politicians in the other House ?—( Laughter and cheers. )
He would in the same manner deal with the Bishops ; letthem
be called on for their opinions only on matters connected with
the Church.—( Cheers.) His belief was, that if they got rid
of all the Bishops and all the Law Lords, the gain to the po-
pular party would be great numerically, and equal to what was
necessary.—( Cheers and laughter.)

Mr. JACK SON did not mean to describe those who signed
the petition as coal-porters and the scum of the earth ; the
fact was, he had not read a single signature. This observa-
tion applied to those who went armed with bludgeons to the
meeting.—( Hear, hear.)

Sir H. HARDINGE should regret that the principle of ex-
cluding Judges from Parliament were adopted, because it
would deprive them of the advantage of the talents of the lion.
and Learned Member for the Tower Hamlets (Dr. Lushing-
ton), who, on great questions of foreign policy, was univer-
sally admitted to be an eminent authority.

Sir. RONA YNE could tell the Hon. and Learned Ser-
geant, that to his knowledge many of those who had signed
the petition were as respectable as he was, or as the Hon. and
Learned Recorder.

Mr. HUME replied. The lion. and Learned Gentleman
opposite had alluded to the mild, merciful, and just majority
on his side of the House; but what had that to do with the
question? Unfortunately for the country, Hon. Gentlemen
opposite had been too long in a tyranical and most overbear..
ing majority. What the petitioners required was, that every
week the Criminal Court in Dublin should be open : their
complaint was, that once a month was not frequently enough.
As to the report of the speech of the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman not being correct, he had heard the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman's explanation, and he could not help thinking, that
if were put upon paper it would appear the same as the report.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that he wished to make one or two
observations, understanding that it had been stated by the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman opposite that he wrote to Dublin to "1
induce the people to get up this petition. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was totally misinformed ; he never wrote
to Dublin on that subject. A meeting was in the first instance
fixed to take place at the Corn Exchange ; that meeting was
interrupted by a person of the name of John M'Crea, and a
band of Orralgemen, who obtained possession of the room two
hours befora the time when the meeting was appointed to be
held. Tike consequence was, that the meeting could not be
held on Coat occasion. He then certainly did write to a gen-
tlenr:n ivt Dublin to that be couEidered the party NA-611,1