The Sun.
London, England, 1859-06-08 00:00:00

heard the observations wlich had fallen from the noble earl
who had just spoken, andin reply to which he felt called on
to address a few observatims to the house. He had, he
was ready to admit, read 11 the public journrls, in common
with all their lordships, he statement that some unholy
compact existed between aimself, the members of the Exe-
cutive Government in Ireland, and Cardinal Wiseman and
the Roman Catholic party generally. It afforded him great
pleasure to hear that repeated in your lordships' house in a
tangible form, inasmuchas he was thereby afforded an op-
portunity of giving it al once in the most emphatic terms
in which he could expres himself, a distinct denial. (Hear,
hear.) He had then no hesitation in asserting that there
had not been on his ownpart, or on the part of any mem-
ber of the Executive Gcvernment in Ireland, the slightest
compact,' arrangement, n• understanding expressed or im
pliad, or of any sort or of any kind whatsoever. (Cheers.)
Nay, more, hethad never had the slightest communication,
either directly or indirectly, with any Roman Catholic
either before, during, or after the general election, on the
istu
statedl ejectoaf t
ah ep
rnooobf 1 e
that earlsa r
oe
ommapr ka se .t h
a had Hde
been no
hdteeerde
dh a r
intod
between himself and Cirdinal Wiseman, that he had at-
tended a Roman Catholc bazaar, and had spent a few
pounds in aid of the funts of the harity which it had been
set on foot to promote. Now, he would appeal to his noble
friend thelate Foreign Secretary to the noble earl who had
just spoken, and to anotaer noble lord whom he did not see
in his place at that moment, to say whether, during the
period of their stay it Ireland, they had not all at-
tended the bazaar to wlish he referred in aid of the funds
of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul I When he had
gone to Ireland in 1852 he had been informed that that so-
ciety was one of a dangerous and proselytising description.
and had been pressed not to attend it. He had, however,
investigated the matter, and had found that the society was
not one which had been set on foot for proselytizing purposes
but which was devoted to the indiscriminate relief of both
Protestants and Romtn. Catholics—(hear)—and he had,
'therefore, attended the bazaar in 1852, in 1858, as well as
in the course of the present year. If such attendance were
proof of a compact between him and Cardinal Wiseman,
that proof existed in 1E52 as well as in 1859. The subject,
however, was one on vhich it would be ridiculous any
longer to waste their lordships' time. He had gone to Ire-
land to govern not a party, but a country, and while he
was determined to untold the Protestant religion in all its
integrity, he should lot, at the same time, he deterred
from the performance of acts of social courtesy or charity,
either by the bigotry cf one religious sect or the taunts of
another. (Cheers.)
Lord BROUGHAM was of opinion that the Speech from
the Throne must have been framed in strict accordance with
the motto which said, " Look at everything and touch no-
thing." With regard to the object of the war, which was
said to be the liberation of Italy and the establishment of
Italian nationality, did anybody believe for one moment that
it was really undertaken for the purpose of driving out Aus-
tria because Austria had maltreated her Italian subjects?
For himself no man was more desirous of seeing Austria
removed from Italy, and the Italian States working out
their own. independence ; but he did not want to see them
transferred from ono master to another. It was urged that
by giving Lombardy and Venice to Piedmont you would be
freeing a great portion of Italy. As well might it be said
that if you gave certain of the small German Principalities
to Prussia or Austria you would aid the cause of German
freedom or nationality. In point of fact it would be pillage,
it would be taking the property of one Power to give to
another, and more hateful even than the act itself would be
the false pretence that you were doing this in the name of
Liberty. (Hear.) For ages past Lombardy had been in
the possession of Austria, and since 1815 it had, together
with Venice, been guaranteed to her by treaty. He had been
reminded of the part which he had taken in this question in
1815. But in 1817, too, he had attacked Lord Castelreagh,
and the front of his attack was that that Minister had
abandoned the principle, the policy, and the pledges of the
country by giving up the free Republic of Genoa to the
Monarchy of Sardinia. Sardinia had now the same right
to Genoa that Austria had to the Venetian part of her
Italian possessions, and one dating from the same period.
Had he ever dreamed of attacking that title at a later time ?
Forty years had elapsed, and when there had been such
long possession the soundest principle of foreign policy and
of international law was not to scrutinize too nicely the
question of title. He would take an instance. There was
no, crime in the history of nations more outrageous than the
partition of Poland, and yet nobody thought of interfering
with that arrangement, although its prescription was only
20 years longer than that by which the Venetian territory
was held by Austria and Genoa by Sardinia. Austria, he
admitted, was greatly to blame in many respects, but prin-
cipally for the encroachments she had made since 1815.
She had made treaties with small independent States, by
which they allowed themselves to be absorbed in their more
powerful neighbour, and the other Powers had a right to
object to those treaties notwithstanding the assent by which
the absorption took place. If there had been a Congress'
-he believed that Austria might have been persuaded to
abandon the undue influence which she had thus acquired
since 1815, and he could not help hoping that in the course
of the negotiations which might arise at any moment a re-
currence might be had to the proposition made by 'Prince
Metternich many years ago, to give up Lombardy, not to
Piedmont, but to an Austrian prince, converting it into a
separate State. If that were done, a great good would be
accomplished, and Austria would be relieved of a grievous
burden. (Hear, hear.) There was one point which filled
him with considerable alarm. A succession of brilliant vic-
tories might encourage the Fiench army—for he had much
less apprehension of the Emperor than of his:soldiers—to
undertake expeditions of a still more reprehensible character
than the present. He did not counsel any distrust, for the
Emperor had been throughout our faithful ally, and we had
no reason to expect him to be otherwise now. Considering,
however, his position, with a vast army eager to distinguish
itself, and without the check of a free Parliament or a free
press, while we ought not to be mistrustful or suspicious, we
ought to be upon our guard. (Hear.) Nothing could be more
clear than the absolute necessity of largely increasing our
navy, and he earnestly
jtru,isitie:uti,hautethueunimpeiaesLueiryes
swuhccicehsshfulad.
been taken to increase the number of our seamen an'l
rfe hoped also that facilities might be given—stimulus was
not required—to the formation of volunteer corps, believing
that great advantage would accrue. (Hear.) But there
was another thing wanted. We wanted a strong Govern-
ment—a Government capable of inspiring awe and wielding
the influence of England with vigour and effect. Any sup-
porter of the present Government who reckoned upon the
esa
nswds
be-
havedta
division of their adversaries might say as the Roman patriot
did on the decline of the empire :—"Maneat qumso duret que
gentibus, Si non amor nostri, et certe odium sui ; quando
nubentibus tandem imperii fatis non nisi hostium discordia
servabimur." But he wished Ministers to be strong from
their own intrinsic support. If he turned to his noblefriends
behind him exactly the same difficulty occurred. Suppose
anything were to cause a change of Government, and they
were in office, then the discord would be intramural—(a
laugh)—at all events the Government would be feeble, how-
ever it might be formed, if composed of one party, or of a
combination of small parties. Was it wholly impossible,
in the greatest peril perhaps that England had ever en-
countered, and in the greatest opportunity that a strong
and united Government could have for giving peace to the
world, that there should be a general combination of the
heads of all parties to form a stable and powerful Admini-
stration? He recollected the magnanimity which was
shown by the statesmen of 1804. Fox, Pitt, Wyndb.am,
of
thov)solid,teffeteddt tra:
hnaseteongoi
.cdedarhei
snsseieupsgo substantial
friendstr
greater,
sm
raenhttteiihrsa
then
Government.neaaonnsxsdep,o,ufhFtteohxasevn threateninghgravitya In
Grenville, and Grey were all ready to sacrifice their per-
sonal, private, and party feelings, and to co-operate in
1792 Mr. Fox was most *anxious for a coalition with Mr.
formingpitt
on r.
aand more anxious to make sacrifices.
But in 1804 the clouds had thickened, the danger was
acacourneatl,
ill
mWhenpnearer,roerjoud
expressionidt theehtse
determined
wrouombefrj geentec
her
removed,
objection
oynl
to
ofthe
olitkiseisa.n avngeelm.'i'ghHt
neohtaasd
pirto
the hopes of a coalition, and Mr. Pitt came into power, the
Embassyt
st
times,a a foreignhu twe Courteoai du natti
leastthe look
King's
to
magnanimouslyimitate t
the
effegreendi
genius
vs eonf
tt ohundertakeothose
greatma
enuof p a
the example they had set us of virtue--of that political self-
denial which the present conjuncture imperiously de-
mand.dhotine
gd a
atr res
Thee n t
cituheesrtei
on wasw
ahsa pa
sp
tiation ; and for this purpose a Governmentitoyon en questiondsuuocthi.
nags a
he
nfe
ec
hadog no
described, combining
frownbining idnowitns rarlleresstihsteangroeoa,tanestdsotaarrteysmwienthoift
thee day w
the support of all parties in both Houses of Parliament.
(Cheers.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH so entirely agreed with
what had fallen from his noble and learned friend (Lord
Brougham) that he could not forbear expressing his entire
concurrence in the, concluding period of the noble lord's
address He had wished at an earlier portion of the present
debate to have expressed the view which had now been pre-
sented to the house in so muchbetter a manner than he could
have presented it. Ho held that an intervention in the pre-
sent state of affairs in Europe was utterly without hope un-
less we first made ourselves unattackable here at home, and
unleks we could back an intervention with such a navaland
military force as would enable us in ease of necessity to in-
terfere with effect. Such a fori3 could not be obtained
otherwise than through the medium of a strong government.
Now the result of the recent dissolution was this—it had to
a great extent equalised the strength of parties, and'had in so
far thrown back the hope of a strong government. Further,
however, that motion which had been sketched out by the
noble earl opposite, and which as he (Lord Ellenborough)
had been informed, had been since made in the other house,
was one of the measures most likely to throw back a strong
government. In the position in which they were now placed,
looking to whatever side they might, there appeared little
hope of a strong government. The opposition were supported
by men whose extreme opinions were as opposed to those of
the leaders of opposition as these were to any of their lord-
ships. But he could tell the noble earl opposite that if the
opposition should become the Ministry, it was not* always
that there could be found a Sir R. Peel to throw a shield
over theni for theirprotection against their own followers. It
was too much to expect that Mr. Disraeli, with his 300
friends, should throw his eegis over the now opposition,
should they become a government. He agreed entirely with
what had been said in an early part of the debate as to the
evil of attempting to govern with a minority. He knew
the evil of such a practice, for he had had the misfortune
to belong to such a Government—a Government formed by
Sir R. Peel, and which met the House of Commons in a
minority. If there was any man who could have governed
the country under such a crisis it was Sir R. Peel. He recol-
lected that distinguished statesman telling his colleagues
that from the first he had seen the impossibility of going
on; that he felt the mischief of the continual rebuffs to
which his administration was subject, which materially da-
maged the authority of Governments generally. He (Lord
Ellenborough) would go further than some noble lords on
the other side had gone, and would say that even if there
was a majority, unless it- wasa considerable one the Govern-
ment carrying on affairs was doing a disservice to the
Crown. People looked to a Ministry as men whose duty
it was to place before Parliament measures of which they
had approved. But a weak Government could not venture
to be guided solely by what they believed to be just; they
were obliged still more to consider what would be the view
of the Opposition upon such measures as they ventured to
bring in. These views were so much shared by the late
Sir R. Peel, that although he had means for knowing that
he should receive great support from the country, he at the
period to which he had already alludedthouglet ithis duty- to
endeavour to strengthen himself by obtaining the adhesion
of men in whom large portions of the Legislature placed
confidence. His noble friend at the head of the Government
knew that Sir R. Peel was unsuccessful in his appeal, but
the result undoubtedly was that he stood much better with
the house and with the country than he did before the at-
tempt was made. He (Lord Ellenborough) wished that
noble lords and hon. gentlemen in the other house would
look back, as he had done; to the debates in the House of
Commons during the late war, and to the history of that
period. They would see how a large body of most influen-
tial-members, numbering upwards of 70, met arid passed a
resolution, urging the leaders of both parties to combine
in order to the formation of a Whig Government. A
resolution was also about that time passed, desiring Mr.

Pitt to express to the King an earnest desire that the Duke
of Portland, in whom the opposition had confidence, should
have an interview with Mr. Fox, with a view of forming
an administration on a wider and equal basis. On that
word " equal" the whole negotiation went off, and the
opportunity of arbitration was unfortunately lost. He re-
ferred to these facts to show that at no time did those two
great men—Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox—think it inconsistent
with their public duty or private honour to unite with the
object of governing the country. (" Hear, hear," from
Lord Derby.) He trusted that these facts would not pass
from the recollection of the house or the country, and that
in whatever danger they might be placed, public men would
not permit private feeling to deter them from joining in
taking part in the government of the country. (Hear.) •,
The Duke of ARGYLL trusted that the great Conserva-
tive party would see the necessity of putting forth some
definitive views on the subject of reform, as by so doing, if
they did not save the Government they would promote the
interests of their country.
The Farl of DERBY said—l should have risen imme-
diately after the speech of my noble friend who followed the
mover and seconder of the Address if a noble earl had not

signified his intention to move an amendment, and I con
sidered it more respectful to the 'noble earl and more suit-
able to the convenience of your lordships that I should post-
pone my observations until it became my duty, as it cer-
tainly would have been, to object to that amendment. Sub-
sequently the noble earl, I suppose, has seen some reason
to think that it would not be expedient to press for a divi-
sion, or even to bring under consideration the amendment
of which he gave me notice, and I believe has left the house-
(Cheers.) I confess, my lords, that it is with some satis-
faction I feel that I shall not be under the necessity of tres-
passing on your attention for any long time, for, although
the debate has been very lengthened, very able, highly in-
teresting, and highly important, I must say it has been one
of a singularly discursive character—(hear, hear)—and that
(which is peculiar to these debates)—being a debate on the
Speech and Address in answer to the Speech—l have now
listened for a period of about five hours and I have not
heard from any oue speaker a single reference to any one
paragraph in the Speech. (Laughter.) I think I may
make one exception in favour of the noble earl (Earl Gran-
ville). But, now I recollect, he referred to the Speech on
the prorogation of Parliament, so that not one speaker has
referred to the present Speech. (Laughter.)
Earl GRANVELLE—The. noble earl is quite right ; I
did make a reference to the Speech.
The Earl of DERBY—Which Speech ?
Earl GRANVLLLE—This Speech.
The Earl of DERBY—I listened with very great atten-
tion, and did not notice it. It may have been a distant
allusion—(laughter)—but there was a paragraph in the
Speech on the prerogation to which the noble earl thought
it necessary to call your lordships' attention. He appeared
to consider it a emitter of impropriety, and almost profane-
ness, that the Minister, in the name of the Sovereign,
should have addressed Parliament in such terms. The noble
earl said that her, Majesty was made to express prayers that
the result of the dissolution, might be to give the Ministry a
majority, and that the Members of the Government did not
rely on the efficacy of prayer, because, like the waggoner in
the fable, they put their Governmental shoulder to the
wheel most energetically. (Laughter.) There has been a
great deal of nonsense talked about influencing the elections.
My noble friend the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland has disposed
of the compact sa id to exist with Cardinal Wiseman, and I
can only say that I am as free with regard to the Govern-
ment on this side of the water as my noble friend is with
regard to the Government on the other side of the water
from any compact, agreement, or negotiation, either directly
or indirectly, with Cardinal Wiseman. (Cheers.) This Ido
know—that before the late dissolution I was told by Con-
servative Roman Catholics that they were glad to find that
without violating their religious principles, and in accord-
ance with their political principles, they could give a sup.
port to the present Government which they had never been
able to give to former Conservative Governments. (Hear,
hear.) But that was not based on any promise or compact
entered into with Cardinal Wiseman. (Hear, hear.) That,
which we have done we have done in the face of the public
and on no political grounds, unless the obligation which we
felt of doing that which we conscientiously believed to be
right be called a political ground. We found, and it was
subsequently published in a letter from Cardinal Wiseman
to an Irish member, that Roman Catholics were disposed
to give, and did give, their support to the Govern-
ment, because, without any professions er pledges, the
Roman Catholics found they were treated with more
'courtesy, more fairness, and more straightforward dealing
in matters affecting their religious 'feelings by the Govern-
ment than they had ever been by any former Government.
(Cheers.) Ido not believe that the reason for the support
which was given on the one side by the Roman Catholics
and obtained by the Government on other was a reason of
which either need be ashamed. (Cheers.) We have done
for them-what they were fairly entitled to from ,us in the
discharge of our public duty. We shall continue to pursue the
same course. We shall give them whatever indulgence, and
I would rather say, whatever fair dealing they are entitled
to ; and we shall not give them one single thing which'would
prejudice or im pair the interests of the church to which we
belong, and whose interests we feel boundto eupport. (Hear.)
But if Oa, n.om %n Catholics are satisfied with a Government
which makes no fair promises,holds out no large expectations,
but which they:find deals out real and substantial justice, I
say again neither they nor we ought to be ashamed of the
support which they give. (Cheers.) But, again, with re-
gard to the fact, and more especially with regard to Ireland,
that support has been of a most divided character, and at
some Irish elections the Roman Catholic priests have been
more violent than on any former occasion against
the Government candidates. (Hear, hear.) There
has been a report of some fabulous sums, and the
mention of fabulous sums naturally calls to my re-
membrance a right hon. baronet on a Northern hus-
tings. (Laughter,) That right hon. baronet has already
been subjected to correspondence upon two points, with re-
gard to both of-which he wits unfortunatelyded into making
erroneous statements, and statements entirely contrary to
fact. (Hear, hear.) The one which was the most signal
one was that the Government was about to bribe the Roman
Catholics with 'X don't know what promises and magnificent
expectations, and the other that the Government did a, very
popular act on the eve of the elections in raising the billet
money for the purpose of obtaining the support of all the
licensed victuallers. It turned out very-unfortunately for
the right hon. baronet that the recommendation to raise
the billet money did not emanate from the Government.
It may perhaps be considered one of those weak and cul-
pable yielding; to public opinion under the dictation of
a committee of the Rollie of Commons which
the noble earl has condemned, but it so happens
that it was the recommendation of a committee which
sat in the session of last year, that at the commencement
of last session was announced by the Secretary of War
as intended to be done, that it was introduced into the
Mutiny Act, that it was discussed in Parliament on the
Mutiny Act, wed that the Mutiny Act was passed before
there was any thought of a general election. (Cheers.) So
far as to the motive for increasing the billet money.
(Cheers.) We have been told that fabulous sums of money
were subscribed, as one hon. gentleman expressed it, " foully
to pack the new Parliament," and the right hon. baronet
to whom I have adverted—to borrow a phrase from his
Scotch neighbours—" condescended to particulars." Not
satisfied with the general rumour of the hundreds of thou-
sands of pounds which were to come from the Carlton
Club, he specified the precise sum which I myself had
given. (Laughter.) I am quite satisfied of one thing—
that the right hon. baronet has not had access to my
banker's cheque-book. (Laughter.) The right hon. ba-
ronet said I laud boasted of having subscribed £20,000 for
the purposes of corruption. I conclude the right hon.
baronet did not invent the statement, but he was the
first to put :it in circulation, and I am indebted to
him for having it repeated upon many hustings in
the country. IWhat effect it produced there I don't know—
no doubt, on some of them, an effect very different from
that which the right hon. baronet expected. (Laughter.)
But, at all events, with regard to this fact, as with regard
to the ethers, the fact is that it is no fact at all. I not only
did not subscriibe £20,000, nor £lO,OOO, nor £5,000 to the
expenses of the general election, nor to any election at all
in the country, although there was in my own county a
contested election which was carried in a way most satisfac-
tory to the Government, and I believe with the smallest
expenditure th, a was ever knownat such an election. (Hear
hear.) I believe there is no general election occurs at which
gentlemen of both parties do not subscribe certain sums of
money for the
_purpose of meeting the legitimate expenses
of those gentle teen of their own party who are not able to
defray them themselves. The noble earl (Earl Clarendon)
opposite I see holds up his hands in astonishment,
but my noble friend must either be a very good
hand at dissimulation, or he is remarkably inno-
cent with regard to the proceedings which have taken
place with both political parties, either in my memory or
during the nobile earl's lifetime. But beyond the ordinary
subscriptions which are entered into at every election I
don't believe that in any quarter there has been any extra-
ordinary expel tditure. I did not think it necessary to
trouble the rigl it hon. baronet with a third correspondence
—(laughter)—'but the present occasion appeared to beda
very fair one for setting him right in the mistakes he ma e
which had not been previously corrected. (Hear, hear)
Tip paragraph in the prorogation Speech, which t.lPßesa,r,s.t°
have given gre at offence to my noble friend opposite let
,lriso.,.
" Her Majesty prays that, under the blessing of Pis,' r
vidence, the st( wp which she is about to take may haul the
effect of facilitating the discharge of her high functions, and
enable her to conduct the Government of the country
the advice of Mi blisters possessing the confid
ntoicnenthmatasbtehtaet
rent." The glcoss which my noble friend
her Majesty pra ors that the effect of the
.dis
Now, inyi 1857
give the present Government a majority.Ps no
lt nes
there was a son iewhat similar dissolution al a time of year
of Go Government hav-
nto
rn guage then put i not very different, in consequence
yot
hf
inLgo rd
which PalPal mtehre-
ing been put in to a minority.
her Majesty's n south by the Governmentsten I find m tech more profane
than
noble lord has
speech for which we are re-
sponsible. It r u quns thus—"
noted from
. the_
r Majesty commands us to
assure you that it is her fervent
_prayer that the several
constituencies c- rf the Untieg functions may be guided by an
indom uon whom devolves
the exercise of these hr
all-wise Provid once to the selection of representatives whose
wisdom and pa triotism may aid her Majesty in her con-
stant endeavou r to maintain the honour of the country."
(Laughter.) Lc tus contrast the two speeches and see to which
of them the ch,: irge of profaneness applies. Lord Palmer-
ston makes her Majestypray that the people may be guided
to the selection of representatives who will aid her in up-
holding the hoe :our and dignity of the country. (Opposition
cheers.) But i recollect the appeal to the country was base
on the ground t that Parliament had not assisted her Majesty
in her endeavor as to maintain the dignity of the country.
But in the pre rogation speech to which my noble friend
has alluded, IN hat her Majesty prays is that the step
which she is ab DIA to take may " enable her to conduct the
government of the country under the advice of Ministersi
possessed of the confidence of Parliament." (Cheers.) I say
it was the main object of the dissolution to obtain, if. pos-
sible, that whit h all your lordships have declared to be the
great want of the country at this moment—a Government
strong enough t o carry on the businTs of the country without
embarrassment sea Government which may be able to facilie

tate the discharge of the high functions of her Majesty, and
in the discharge of which she is exposed to the greatest em-
barrassment from the frequent changes of Government. _I
say sincerely-1 said it when announcing the dissolution and
I repeat it now—that it was my anxious wish that there
might be Bch a clear and explicit declaration of the opinions
and feelings of the people that the Government, whether our-
selves or any other which might succeed us—for I spoke with-
out keference to any party considerations or any wish of my
own—might possess the confidence of the great majority of
the people, and that the serious detriment to the public inte-
rest which has been caused by the absence of such a state of
things might be put an end to. For that detriment lam not
responsible. I feel the inconvenience of being the head of a
Government which does not command an absolute majority
in the House of Commons, and if I could see my way to a
Government bound together by common ties, capable of
acting together harmoniously, and possessing the confidence
of a majority of the country, however much their opinions
on certain subjects might differ from mine, I would cheer-
fully, willingly—nay, more, gladly surrender the responsible
post which I occupy for the purpose of facilitating the' for-
mation of such a Government. But it is because I see no
possibility of such a union among those boasting to be the
Liberal majority, that under all the difficulties of this
position at home—and I do not disguise that they are
great—and under all the difficulties which surround
our foreign policy abroad, I hold it to be my duty
to my Sovereign—and it is a duty which I shall perform to
the utmost of my ability—not to abandon the post confided
to me, not to give up the trust placed in my hands so long
as I see that there is any possibility of discharging that duty
with honour, and so long especially as there appears to be
no means by which the present Government can be effec-
tually replaced. (Loud cheers.) Those who condemn the
dissolution of Parliament must do it on the ground that no
dissolution is legitimate which does not promise to secure an
absolute majority to the Government of the day. When._ I
accepted office it was because there was no possibility of
formingany other Government at the time—a fact which was
recognized by Parliament. Notwithstanding all the disad-
vantage of the position I felt bound to assume the difficult
task of forming a Government ; but I should. have been a
madman if I had assumed that charge with a majority of
120 or 130 members against me, bound to quit office upon
the first occasion on which that adverse majority might
think fit to display its strength against me. The very
fact of my accepting office under such circumstances
was a certain proof that in the event of defeat it would be
my duty, my. imperative duty, to appeal to the country.
(Cheers.) The noble marquis near me (Normanby)—whom
we all rejoice to see among us again—has compared the cir •
cumstances of this dissolution to that pf 1841, to which
he says he objected at the time. But let me compare the
circumstances of the two dissolutions. The Government
at that time had been in a permanent minority for two
years in a house of their own choosing. In 1839 the Go-
vernment tendered their resignations, and the substitution
of a Conservative Government was only prevented in con-
sequence of some trifling misunderstanding with regard to
the Royal household. They were exposed to constant
defeats from a party—the union in whose ranks was more
complete and more sound than the union in any party
which I can recollect. At the close of the session of 1841
a vote of want of confidence was passed against the Go-
vernment, by the majority, however, of one only. Then they
had to consider what would be the effect of a dissolution.
On the one hand there was a compact united partyready to
take its place and succeed to the administration of the
affairs of the country. That being so, the Cabinet, had upon
the other hand, to consider whether there was any chance of
so far recruiting the number of its supporters by a dissolu-
tion as to enable it to weaken the resources of its opponents.
Now I do not think that any member of Lord Melbourne's
Government believed for a single moment that it could
obtain a working majority, or anticipated that by a disso-
lution it should, even in the slightest degree, improve its
position. But what was the 'result ? Why, that on the first
day of the meeting of Parliament after the new elections a
vote of want of confidence, which had previously been car-
ried by one vote, wah then carried by no less a majority than
91. Compare the dissolution of 1841 with that of 1859. We
succeeded to office, as I before stated, in a minority. That was
well known. It was equally well known that at the period of
the dissolution there was no party in the House of Com-
mons sufficiently united to take our places if we had
resigned. Under these circumstances, we deemed it to be
our duty to dissolve, and the consequence has been that
although the Government have not succeeded in obtaining
an absolutemajority, yet that we, having been defeated: by a
majority of 39 on the second reading of the Reform Bill,
have secured, according to the nearest calculation which I
can make, an addition of 30 members to the number of our
supporters, thus making on a division a difference of 60
votes. Now while I admit that we are not in an absolute
majority in the House of Commons, I contend that there is
no party, nor even any two parties combined, which of
themselves possess sufficient strength to form a Govern-
ment as numerically powerful and as compact as that'which
now holds the reins of office. (Hear, hear.) We have been
told by my noble friend below me (the Earl of Ellenborough),
who spoke this evening e with that sTeat ability which
he always displays, that it is the duty of public men
at such a crisis as the present to combine together for
the public good and to endeavour to form a strong Govern-
ment. My noble and learned friend opposite (Lord Brougham)
also, I think, referred to the subject in alluding to the
memorable attempt to effect a combination between Pitt
and Fox. I was, I must say, somewhat struck by the
singular coincidence suggested by the remarks of ray
noble and learned friend, which tend to prove that
the sacrifices which were made by the statesmen of former
times are not without parallel at the present day. In 1804,
Pitt said Fox behaved like an angel. Now, what was the
angelic virtue which called forth this expression of approba-
tion ? It was the acceptance on the part of Fox of a mission
to Vienna. (A laugh.) These great men were two rival
statesmen. They could not both have held the foremost
part in the Government. It was therefore agreed that one
should accept the inferior post of Minister at Vienna, and
the acceptance of that post was held to be the act of an
angel. (Laughter.) If I remember rightly, the noble
lord the member for London is equally entitled with Fox
to the praise of having done an angelic act ; but I never
heard that the noble lord the member for Tiverton had
the generosity to say that in his opinion his noble
colleague had behaved like an angel. (Renewed laugh-
ter.) Indeed, I believe the noble viscount seriously and
sincerely rejoiced at the self-sacrifice of his noble friend;
nor can I help thinking that he rejoiced quite as sin-
cerely when he found that the result of his negotiations
in Vienna did not' tend very materially to increase his
noble friend's political reputation. (Great laughter.) But
I understand that a meeting of reconciliation has taken
place, at which those two noble lords were present, and per-
haps my noble and learned friend would still further assist
the work of peace by suggesting which of them should upon
a second occasion undertake an angelic mission. (Laughter.)
For my own part, I do not think any public advantage can
be secured by men who, for the purpose of merely forming
an Administration, sacrifice their own political views ; while
I cannot undoubtedly charge myself with having neglected
to obtain, so far as was in my power, extraneous aid from
quarters immediately unconnected with the Government,
I have unfortunately not been successful in my effo"rts in
that direction, but I cannot accuse myself of having
omitted any opportunity to strengthen by fair and honour-
able combination—not involving any sacrifice of prin-
ciple—the Government which has been entrusted to me
'by my Sovereign. (Hear, hear.) I' am not now going
to follow my noble friend opposite (Earl Granville)
into a discussion of the various shortcomings of
which he seems to think her Majesty's Ministers were guilty
in the course of last year. There were some charges which
he has made against us, which I little' anticipated would be
pressed on the notice of the house on an important occasion
like the present., The old question of the Conspiracy'Bill
has been,again raked up, and it certainly is very satisfac-
tory to Ale to find that my noble friend is so badly off for
a subject of attack—it is of course the duty of his position
to find fault—(a laugh) —that he finds it necessary to revert
to the proceedings of a year and a half ago. (Hear, hear.)
liaving disposed of the Conspiracy Bill and the India Bill,
the noble earl dwelt upon the subject of foreign affairs,with
respect to which he accuses us of gross neglect. He says
we have acted most improperly in not laying the papers
with this important subject upon the table of the
connected
house. I s'iould,. however, like to learn from my noble
friend what pursers of any kind or description which we
could produce, and which your lordships have ex-
pressed the slightest desire to see, have been
presented to Pargarcent ? what papers have been
withheld or in the'sliglitCst degree garbled. In the case of
the Cagliari and the Chaaies et Georges the fullest details
were laid before the house, and the result was that the course
pursued by the Government in reference to the former met
ith general approval, while in the case of the latter, which,
was said, was to affect the very ex:stance of the Government,
not only did the production of the papers establish a tri-
m-1101=f, defence for her Majesty's Ministers, but no
atterarillld raise a discussion as to the virsdom o the Roouicsa;
which they adopted was raised in this or in 'the oth
of Parliament. (An intimatieti of dissent frcan
was made
ville.) I beg the noble earl's pardon. A motionthat motion
in your lordships house with respect to it, but
ar and a
was very wisely and discreetly withdrawn. t
o(Hearp in dis-
Earl Gran-
laugh.) Now, my lords, I do not
with which the efforts of the Governmen
arty more
ipara,geraent of the general tone of fairnwiessshanotd -thaaovdeerahteioenn
met by noble lords opposite and their
andp
difficult
especially, dealing with. the delicate
negotiations which have takenwe placer reference
negotiations
to foreign affairs. I do, he
much to say that, from the period
gionovdarihuabmlyo
urm eotn w
the
of the fotrhmiininaktion of the
nGeotvheirnngmheunttauinpgtuio
atrhfeorphreeasreanut,eoitanhdas
Rion of office ? If lam not very
to interfere with our possessi
part of the House of Commons. Has no attempt been made
much motiond
uweeads , es h
simultaneouslyortl aeirn
tve' e
hs
outch--
houses,ceededm to
Vstha assumednw ear
the" form of an absolute vote of cen-
sure, and which was heralded by strong declarations of
what must be the effect of the culpability of her Majesty's
Ministers. The debate on that motion lasted the other
house for a considerable number of days, and the result was
to prove that, even in that house, if the Government did
not possess an absolute majority, it had a sufficient number
of supporters to enable it, with the assistance of fair deal-
kng on the part of the house at larcse, to resist any factious
attempt to overthrow it. In the ?ace of the defeat which
the party to which the noble earl opposite belongs, ex-
perienced upon that occasion, no serious attack was subse-
quently made upon the Government during the progress of
the session. But I cannot help thinking that this circum-
stance is due as much to their discretion as to their forbear-
ance. (Hear, hear.) But to show how hard pressed my noble
friend must have been for a subject on which to found an
attack upon the Government, he actually, when the question
of peace or war, so far as this country is supposed by some
—although I hope without sufficient reason—to be tremb-
ling in the balance, and, on the very first night of the
session, deems it his duty to find fault with us for
having expended a certain sum of money, or in renewing
the contract with the Cunard Steampacket Company, which
had been carried out for some years with great success. It
so happens, however, that the step which we took in
reference to that subject was one in adopting which we were
merely carrying out the strongest recommendations of the
Board of Admiralty which preceded us in office—(hear,
hear)—and which recommendations had not previously been
carried into effect by the Treasury, simply beg into
they thought it expedient to postpone entering
eae
nafrpelseht
on.ln contract
theun until however,otahnetimexei,stin
held the contract came to the Government, s
adc nate
he wished to extend its terms and to re
existing
s 3
ne
be necessary to
theax a s p
enresa; rwi iht oos
remuneration. Ile stated that it would aying that
hich the contract had
that two years and a half, the periodfowr
their construction.
build for the purpose a considerable number of vessels,,and
to run, would barely suffice
Under these circumst a
• d of five yeadrs,f andth these facts
of the contract for a permnces he askeor e renewal
(Hear, hear.) I
solemn charge against the Government.
the the noble earl has thought proper to make the ground of a
fell from the noble duke who has just spoken.
shall now pass from the observations of noble earl to
those which
He has thrown quite a new light upon the reasons fel. the
dissolution of Parliament. He said we had recourse to a
dissolutio, not for the purpose of cfscertaining whether the
Government or the party to which he himself belonged en-
joyed the confidence of the country. That he conceives to
have been a mere blind, the real question in his opinion being
whether or not the country. approved the Reform Bill.
Now, I take the liberty of saying that the question wasinot

whether the country approved our Reform Bill, but whether
it approved the course which the Opposition took for the
purpose of preventing discussion upon the Reform Bill.
(Hear, hear.) The noble duke says it is the misfortune of
unsuccessful Reform Bills that not only are their bad pro-
visions condemned, but their good provisions are disparaged
and prejudiced. If that be so, the measures of 1852 and
1854 must have seriously damaged the cause of Parliamen-
tary Reform throughout the country. (A laugh.) The
noble duke adds that if the bill of last session had gone on,
the majority against it would have been quite as great as
that which passed the resolution. Now, I believe nothing
of the kind, for I am perfectly satisfied that if the Opposi-
tion, who were wise in their generation, had been of opinion
that 'by opposing the second reading they should have
had a much larger majority than that actually obtained,
they wculd have adopted the more ordinary and
usual course of opposing the second reading, and
therefore of getting the opinion of the house on the merits
of the measure as a whole. (Hear.) My firm belief is that
they were perfectly aware that the second reading would
be carried, in which case, instead of vague generalities,
they would have been Called upon to deal with the pro-
visions of the bill one by one, not only condemning them,
but stating what provisions they would propose instead.
From that attempt they shrunk, knowing probably that
it would, if made; have exposed the wide differences of
opinion existing among those who please to call themselves
the united Liberal party. I say, therefore, it is not the
question of reform which went to the country, and it is
extraordinary on how small a number of hustings reform
was made a prominent subject of discussion. The ques-
tion put to the country was, " Are you prepared in the
present state of parties to give such a support to the pre-
sent Ministry as will enable them to carry on satisfac-
torily the government of the country ; or will you
extend that support to any other Government." The
result is before you. Undoubtedly, it is not entirely sa-
tisfactory, and still leave% the Ministry in a position of weak-
ness which is not desirable, but with regard to foreign poli-
tics my experience in the past, my confidence in the charac-
ter of muountrymen, leaves me no reason to doubt that in
the course we have announced and are determined to pursue
we shall have a general support quite sufficient to show to all
the nations of the Continent that upon that subject, at all
events, there is no difference of opinion which could giVe,,, t°
the enemies of this country the slightest chance of sue6o6
,from our dissensions. (Hear.) Undoubtedlythere have been
expressions of individual opinion—expressions which indi-
vidual members may be perfectly justified in making use of
in their private capacity, and indicative of sympathy for one
or the other of the contending parties in thepresent strife.
But with political sympathies a. Government has nothing
whatever to do, and upon this question I am sure you will ex:
pect and will require me to speak with the utmost reserve.
have never, however, concealed my opinions on the subject.
I have always stated that if this were a question of a
Italian or any other nation seeking to emancipate itself by
its own efforts from the control of a foreign Power, which
had been the object of its aversion, and seeking to establish
instead of arbitrary government a system more approaching
those liberal institutions with which we are blessed in this
country, the private sympathy of every Englishman would
be for the success of such an attempt. But is that that the
sense the case in the present struggle in Italy? Is that he
struggle of a nation seeking to emancipate itself by its own
efforts from foreign control, and to substitute for arbitrary
government liberal and free institutions. Even if it were so,
whatever might be our sympathits, we are bound by trel-
ties and international obligations which would not enable
us to give an active effort to those sympathies. But I must
say, with almost all who have spoken on this subject, that,
while we cannot view with approval the course of conduct
which has been pursued by Austria—while I have no sym-
pathy with Austrian rule or with the. Austrian false
of government this is a war undertaken under false
pretences ; it is a war, not for the freedom and liberation
of Italy ; it is one in which unfortunately Sardinia has
taken the lead in forcing upon Italy, thereby, as I have
stated ontit a former occasion, seriously damaging that cause
of constitutional goveltiment which we the friends of Sar-
dinia earnestly desire to sea tried and prosper there, and
showing that a Government with free institutions may 11T'
be less aggressive, not less ambitious of aggrandiseniellii
not less prone to disturb the peace and tranquillity of
neighbours than the most arbitrary despotism. (Hear.)
do not say that the blame rests on one side or the other in
this unhappy contest ; but neither, on the one side or the
other was there any sufficient ground for incurring all the
horrors of war, and had both been so disposed there existed
nb practical difficulties which might not have been solved
by friendly negotiation. (Hear.). Independently, there-
fore, of any cause which may be involved in the struggle,
this country cannot feel sympathy with either party
it
cannot be anxious for the success or the defeat of one side
or the other, except as that success or defeat may lead to
future complications or to consequences which it is hard to
foresee. As we are at present advised, and in the present
state of the contest, I hold it to be the imperative aiity of
this country to maintain that which from the first I have
announced to be the policy of the Government—namely, a
strict and impartial neutrality between the two contending
parties. (Cheers.) But unhappily a position of neutrality
is exposed to so much suspicion, it involves, a country
which fairly and impartially carries it out in so many pos-
sibilities of giving offence to one of the contending parties,
the obligations arising from such a struggle as is now g... 07
ing on are so impossible to be foreseen, and may perhaps.e,e
so extensive, that the statesman would be mad who vntu
this war raging around him, determined as he might be to
maintain a strict neutrality, did not feel it his bounden duty
.
by fitting preparations to place this country in a position 01
security. (Hear.) I believe that as Parliament and the
country will be unanimous in the opinion that neutrality is
the only policy for the Government to pursue, they will be
equally of opinion that the only species of neutrality which
can hope to be respected and to give influence to our future
cou sels must be an armed neutrality—armed, not for pa' -
poses of aggressionbut of protection to our shores and the via:_.
dication of our national honour. (Hear, hear.) Do you ao-
uie if I have any proximate fear of invasion ? I say none,,
whatever. Ido not think there was ever a time when tit
country was more free from the alarm of invasion; but
when I see the armaments and fleets which other co Would
are collecting and remember the power which they viol
have in their hands in case of an unexpected quarrel, I a?
say it is the bounden duty of Pary liament—a duty which '-
believe will be cheerfully performed—to place this countrit
and more especially its naval forces, upon a footing 111,°!,
commensurate with the great interests involved than
been the case for some years past. (Cheers.) With
u:
making any charge upon those who preceded us, I ra
say that when we succeeded to office we found the navy ieu
a state of weakness, decrepitude, and absolute impotenvea;
which was by no means creditable to this country,
gesture of the noble earl opposite (Earl,Granville) in r
not even safe for its interests and independence. Fr I
mt
d thee
that he believes me on a former occasion to have expressed
a-different opinion. ('" Hear," from Earl Granville.) Ile is
quite mistaken. Upon that occasion I did not say a word as
to the state of the navy; but, referring to the condition of
men
less. Abcasaid
t the army in 1852 and 1858, I said that the efforts which had
been made reflected great credit on that dep art
about it the better ; but if noble lords would only take the
the navy I uttered not a word, thinking that the
trouble to look into a paper which has been published in
the course of the present year, and which emanated from a
secret committee appointed by me at the commencement of
this year to inquire into the comparative state of the British`
and French navy, I think they will see in the course of that
inquiry, which went into the most minute details,
for very serious consideration, and such as will show them
that our efforts can hardly be too great to place the nevi
on a better footing. (Hear. hear.) I will not go into detail,
but any of your lordships who will take the trouble to exa-
mine the report of this committee will find in it matter not,
perhaps, for alarm, but for the most milieus consideration:
I do not doubt that in the present state of affairs any demand
which the Government may make upon the House of .
Com-
mons will be met without a dissentient voice, and I replt
with the same confidence that her Majesty has expressed
upon the cordial concurrence of Parliament in those mew:
matter
sures which we have already taken upon ourselves to adopt
for the increase of the naval forces of this country beyond
the means sanctioned by Parliament, as well as in the.othteo
credit for which it will be our duty at no distant period
h of the Royal Speech,
objection taken to one paraorg-rap..
having so ong detained your
ought perhaps to apologise f
call. (Hear.) As no amendment h a been moved and no
session of Parliament. Ifni the course of the present week
it should berproved,
proved, not only that we do not possess the
lordships. We are now n_g possibly u_pon an importan_t
but that there is another peel
re than I took it up the heavy resP°ls
efficientll can only say that I shall lay down
ytrYto' discharge the duties of legislation
macwoniontdrhfieodffeeannthemore
e eo
df
executive,tphl eea cs country,
prinelK,
sibility which presses upon me, and, SO far as my
and sense of duty will enable me, shall give my cordial
and earnest support to any Administration by which thcf
present Government may be replaced. On the other hen
s9O
should, as I confidently anticipate, the vote of them at a,O
of Commons be to show that the present Governe2" $
compared with any other that could be formed, posses c
r parley
the confidence and is entitled to the support of
remit, I must hail with satisfaction the assurance-
we vi-ulas
have received from the noble earl opposit,---tinealr
surance which is in accordance with his general frank
and honourable conduct—that there would be Ile us
tempt made by those who are politically onllese".
to offer us any factious opposition, or to cause lie , axe
unnecessary embarrassment. Above all, my lord 11 be re.
sure, from one side of the house to the other wil eat
echoed the sentiment that when the public interests ar _ ~f
stake, and when a formidable danger threatens, all supportsf"
reo,
party will be lost in the determination effectively to st
the Government of the day in maintaining the ill enore.
securing, it may be, the peace, but if not, then in slimed.
ing by arms the nfluence and the power of Eno
(Loud cheers.) , lord
The Address was then agreed to, and their lo ships ad
journed at 20 minutes past 11 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS— (YESTERDS
The house resumed at a quarter to four o'clock.

- -- __
SeVeral members were sworn in.
SIR J. LAWRENE.
A letter was read from Sir J. Lawre,Cnce, in acknowl„eal
ment of the vote of thanks ag,reed to by the house in re.'"' .
nition of his services.
DIVORCE AND MATRIMONIAL COUR' tof
Mr. E. JAMES gave notice of motion on the subjec,,,
the Metrimonial and Divorce Court, with a view to rent'
its operations more efficient.
THE BOARD OF ADMIRALTY.
Sir C. NAPIER gave notice of motion for the considergc
tion of the propriety of reconstructing this board. (ifer'i
OUR FOREIGN RELATIONS.
Mr. HORSMAN gave notice that he would 'move f°l:
the production of any communications between the Govern
meat of this country and the Governments of France,
Russia, and SardinCHUßCHia In referenßATES.ce to the present hostilitiie"
Sir J. TRELAWNY gave notice of a motion for the n
troduction of a bill to abolish church rates.
THE QUXEN'S SPEECH.
The Royal Speech having been read,
Mr. A. EGERTON rose to move that a humble addreo
be presented to her Majesty in reply to the Royal Speech.
He strongly approved of the sentiments in the address to
her Majesty, particularly in reference to the war, and
in.
trusted that the feeling in favour of neutrality on pa;--
of this country in respect to the pending hostilities would
continue
continue to influence the public mind. He believed the,
such a course would prove the most beneficial that could be
adopted under existing circumstances. (Hear, hear.)
trusted that Russia would adhere to neutrality alsocians
, and
that the fears entertained by certain pol
would prove unfounded. (Hear, hear.) He felt bound
_to
express his approval of the conduct of Government in. till
present critical position in which they were plaeen.
by the events that had taken place on:the Continer:it
(Hear, hear.) With regard to domestic of /:1!
considered that the Government acted wisely
as
postponing the question of Reform for the presenti
an
g
the session would not, from its probable duration, rn
opportunity of passing a satisfactory measure on 'lat.matter
of such importance. 'lle hoped that, ultimately, the
jest would be satisfactorily arranged, and that in any leWs _
Wiwi for a further extension of the franchise, the work!!!g_
classes would -form an element. (Hear, hear.) Iv:.
was firmly convinced that the present Governor
would carry out the affairs of the country with advanta.4