The Sun.
London, England, 1835-05-23 00:00:00

THE MILITARY.

Mr. ROEBUCK begged to inquire whether it was in con-
templation to issue any general order for the abolition of the
practice of soldiers wearing side-arms in town. If not, he
would strongly suggest the propriety of some suck order being
issued.

Lord HO WICK, in a very inaudible voice, replied that if
the Hon. Gentleman would bring the subject before the House,
he would endeavour to return the best answer in his power to
the question his Hon. Friend had just put.
DISSENTERS' MARRIAGES BILL.
Sir ROBERT PEEL begged to ask what course was in-
tended to be pursued with respect to the business of the
night, as there were several orders of the day, the first of
which was the Dissenters' Marriages Bill, which stood for a
second reading ? He had brought in that measure as a mem-
ber of his Majesty's Government in concert with the rest of
his colleages. He then thought, and he conceived the House
could entertain no doubt, that it was a measure the conduct of

TIM SUN, LONDON, SAirunDAv, MAY 23, 1835

which ought to be undertaken by the Executive. He wished,
therefore, to ascertain the Noble Lord's intentions with refer-
ence to that measure, Of course the main character of the
11 must depend upon its details—and, if the Noble Lord,
approving of the principle, proposed to make any alteration in
those details, he would theft deliver up the charge of the measure
to him, as the representative of the gxecutive In that House.
The Noble Lord, in all probability, had made up his mind
upon the subject, and would be able to state whether it would
be more convenient to read the Bill a second time that night,
or to adjourn the second reading to some future day.
Mr. KENNEDY had understood' that the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet would not bring forward the Bill again, but that an-
other would be substituted by the present Government. Under
these circumstances he had withdrawn his notice; and as he
had assigned this as his reason for doing so to several persons
who had applied to him on the subject, he hoped the Right
Hon. Baronet would not persevere.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—The Hon. Gentleman had, per-
haps, better means of ascertaining what the intentions of his
Majesty's Government were than he possessed. He certainly
did not understand that they intended to abandon the measure
altogether, and he was sure that he had never authorized the
Hon. Gentleman, by any act of his, to suppose that he meant
to give it up. At the same time, if they thought it expedient
to drop this Bill, and to introduce another entirely differing in
its character, he had no wish to press the second reading. If,
on the other hand, they, approving of the principle, intended
to modify it by alteration in detail, he was ready to give it up
to them. _ .

Mr. KENNEDY said his idea of what his Majesty's Minis-
ters intended to do, was derived entirely from the tenor of the
Noble Lord's speech in Devonshire.—( Cheers and laughter
from the Opposition.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL was quite certain the Hon. Gentle-
man had acted under the impression he had just stated. He
only wished to add, on his own behalf, that when the Bill
stood for a second reading before, he distinctly expressed his
wish that the Government would undertake it. He had, there-
fore, postponed it--not to a distant period, but to a day by which
he thought it likely the Noble Lord would have taken his
seat in the House. He had acted thus from a conviction of
the expediency of passing the measure with as little delay as
possible.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL entirely approved of the gene-
ral principal of the Bill, as he had already stated to the Right
Hon. Baronet in private • at the same time it did not ap-
pear to him that it would answer its object so far as to give
practical and efficient relief to the Protestant Dissenters, un-
less alterations were made in its details.—( Hear, hear.)
Several Hon. Members, among whom was the Hon. and
Learned Member for the Tower Hamlets, entertained the
same opinion, and had announced their intention of proposing
amendments in it. Since the period when the question was
before under discussion, he had not had sufficient time to exa-
mine the details of the Bill with the accuracy necessary to
enable him to point out to the Right Hon. Baronet the par-
ticular alterations which he should feel inclined to propose or
support. Under these circumstances, he thought it would
be better to postpone the second reading until some future
day, before which he would state to the Right Hon. Baronet
what alterations he should consider necessary, and thus
afford him an opportunity of expressing his opinion with refe-
rence to them. _

Sir ROBERT PEEL would of course decidedly support
the second reading of the Bill, and give his most cordial sup-
port to it in its present form. The Noble Lord's communi-
cation was quite sufficient. He had already stated that he
considered it a measure the conduct of which ought to be un-
dertaken by the Government, and he would deliver up the charge
of it entirely to him. If there were no objection, he would
move the second reading, as it was a measure of the utmost
importance, which the whole body of Dissenters were anxiously
expecting.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. KENNEDY had given notice of his intention to move
the amendment when the Right Hon. Baronet was sitting on
that (the Ministerial) side of the House. He entirely approved
of the Noble Lord's Bill of last year, and he should feel dis-
posed to leave the measure in his hands.
After a few words from Dr. BO WRING,

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that a large body of persons
had communicated to him their resolution not to oppose the
second reading of the Bill, but to communicate to him the ob-
jections to which they considered it liable in Committee.
Mr. WILK S thought there could be no objection to the
second reading of the Bill, but that it would require consi-
derable alteration in Committee.

Mr. M. PHILIPS, on the understanding which had been
stated, would offer no opposition to the second reading.
After a few words from Mr. CORBETT and Sir R. IN-
G LIS, Mr. Cobbett's resolution was put and negatived.

After a few observations from Mr. PARKER,

It was no doubt known to the Noble Lord that Colonel Fox
had vacated his seat in Parliament. There were rumouri
abroad that it was the intention of Government to send the
Gallant Colonel to the Colonies. What he begged to ask
then was, whether the Government had any intention of trans-
porting' Colonel Fox to any of' the Colonies, and in what cha-
racter ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that there was no intention
of sending Colonel Fox to Canada as one of the Commis-
sioners.--( Hear, hear.)
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

Lord HOWICK moved that 98,6741. 2s. ld. be granted
to his Majesty as the charge of the General Staff Officers and
Officers of the Hospitals serving with his Majesty's forces at
home ar.d abroad, and of the Garrisons of the Cinque Ports
and the Tower of London.

Mr. HI3ME begged to ask the Noble Lord whether any
steps had been taken to give effect to the recommendation of
the Committee which sat three years ago upon the subject of
the Army. That Committee had strongly recommended that
the Staff of the Army should be placed upon the same footing
with the Staff of the Navy. With regard to the Household
troops, they had become a bye-word. They did not take their
turn of foreign service like the rest of the army, yet they had
great advantages in pay and promotion. It was a fact that
although the Household troops were numerically but small in
proportion to the whole army, yet fully one-half of the officers
promoted to the rank of General Officers had been in that ser-
vice. Whether was it the Commander-in-Chief or the Noble
Lord who had to point out the manner in which the patronage
of the army ought to be distributed ? Until the time of Earl
Grey's Administration it had always been understood that the
Commander-in-Chief was removable with the Ministry, but
unfortunately since that period a contrary practice had been
pursued. With regard to the reduction of the Staff at head-
quarters, two Right Hon. Gentlemen who had been Secre-
taries at War were examined by the Committee, namely, the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Dundee, and the Presi-
dent of the Board of Control, and they both concurred in opi-
nion that the Staff might be reduced.
Lord Viscount HO WICK stated that there was every dis-
position on the part of Government to attend to the recom-
mendations of the Committee alluded to by the Hon. Member
for Middlesex, and especially to that part of it respecting the
Staff at head-quarters, and the consolidation of the different
military departments. At that moment, however, they laboured
under difficulties, owing to the short time they had taken
office ; he need hardly say they had not had time to come to
a determination on the points alluded to by the Hon. Gentle-
man. They were anxious, if possible, to act upon the principle
adopted by his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Cumber-
land with regard to the Navy—namely, consolidating the dif-
ferent departments, provided this could be done with advantage
to the service.—( Hear.) He regretted that the Hon. Gen-
tleman had chosen to mix up with his advocacy of consolida-
tion an attack upon Lord Hill, respecting the distribution of
the patronage of the Army. With respect to any difference
that might exist on political subjects between Lord Hill and
the present Government, he would only say that his Majesty's
Ministers did not desire that the patronage of the Army should
be made subservient to the support of the Government.
Sir RUFANE D ONK IN felt bound as a soldier to bear
his testimony to the honest and impartial manner in which Lord
Hill had distributed the patronage of the Army.
Mr. COBBETT said that the nation had just right to com-
plain of the enormous number of officers in the Army.
Taking both full and half pay, there was an officer to seven
men and three-quarters.—( A laugh.)

Mr. HUME denied that he intended to throw any imputa-
tions on Lord Hill personally ; he, however, opposed that
Noble Lord as he would oppose Sir Robert Peel or any
other Tory.
Sir CHARLES D' ALBI AC also vindicated the character
of Lord Hill.

Mr. HUME said that it had been objected to his statement
as to the extent to which economy was practicable, that the
cost of the Army in Ireland was only 840,000/. ; but it should
be borne in mind that this sum was the amount of the • mere
pay of the men, What, he would ask, became of the ex-
penses of the artillery, commissariat, and other departments ?
Colonel SIBTHORP said the Honourable Member for
Middlesex might send forth his venom if be pleased—(a laugh)
—this he knew, that it would not affect him. The Honour-
able Member first said he had nothing to charge against the
Noble Lord at the head of the army, and then, with a pecu-
liar inconsistency, he alleged against the Noble Lord that his
conduct was marked by partiality. He believed the Noble
Lord to be incapable of the conduct imputed to him, but when
the Hon. Member for Middlesex made that charge he was
cheered by the other side of the House.—( Renewed cheers
from the Ministerial benches.) Oh yes, they must cheer
him—" similis smith gaudet,"—birds of a feather—all fowls of
the same plumage.—( Laughter.) What could the Honour-
able Member know of the army ? He had been but a short
time in India, and then only in a medical capacity. He
thanked Gcd that they had not got any of the Hon. Member's
physic to swallow here.—( Great laughter. )
Mr. HUME had just a remark to make. It was gratifying
to him to think that there was one dose the Hon. and Gallant

Member and his friends had swallowed, which was the " Rus-
sell purge," and it had been perfectly effectual.—( Cheers and
laughter.)
bir R. INGLIS said the Hon. Member for Middlesex had
not stated a single instance of the partiality he had charged.
He hoped those who supported the Hon. Member with their
cheers would think it their duty to support him with some
statements of fact.-2( Hear.)
Mr. FINN said Ministers ought not to allow their
politi-
cal powers to be in abeyance ; such had not been the course
of the Duke of Wellington. They had the Church, the
Army, and the Corporations, arrayed against them ; but having
the people with them, they would nevertheless maintain a
fair position if they gave power only to those by whom they
were supported.

Mr. COB B ETT—The Hon. Member argued that because
Ministers had the people with them they would carry all
before them; but they had not the people with them ; and he
trusted they never would have till they did something to re-
lieve the people. The people would expect acme of the
tanes that oppressed them taken off; they would not allow
themselves to be led away by mere professions. For his
part he saw little difference berween the Whigs and the
Tories. The people would never be satisfied till they
ceased to lay into one another's hands—till they dissolved
partnership.
Mr. F. O'CONNOR certainly would consent to receive
even less from the present t'san he would from a Tory Go-
vernment, because he knew the difficulties they had to encoun-
ter, and that they would at least put an end to that domestic
cruelty which had for years been practised in Ireland.—( Hear.)
Lord HO WICK observed, there was an old saying, that
none was deaf as those who would not hear; and applying
this to the Hon. Member for Oldham, he must declare that he
despaired producing any effect on the Hon. Gentleman. As
regarded the mere reduction of the burdens of the people,
suppose tile Whigs had done nothing else during the four
years they were in power, had they been quite as unsuccessful
as the Hon. Member would represent ?—( Hear, hear.) Had
the Hon. Member for Oldham forgotten that during the period
he had referred to, the taxes reduced amounted to nearly
5,000,000/. ? The whole of the vote required for the army
was under 6,500,0001. ; therefore, in the course of the four
years, nearly the whole of that charge was saved to the country.
The votes for the army alone were, previous to the year 1830,
never less than 7,300,0001., and frequently more; at present
the sum demanded was 6,490,000/.
After a few words from Mr. RUTIIVEN, Dr. BOWRING, and
Captain PARRY, the vote was agreed to.
15,9661. ls. 10d. was voted as rewards for distinguished
'military services, and also as allowances to officers of his Ma-
jesty's garrisons at home and abroad, holding their appoint-
ments as rewards for military services.
Upon the vote of 106,000/. being proposed for the pay of
general officers in his Majesty's forces,
Lord HOW IC K remarked that it was his intention to pro-
pose, in accordance with the wish expressed by the Committee
who sat on this subject, that general officers not having a re-
giment, should be allowed the pay of 400/. per annum each.
This charge was not included in the present estimate; but he
intended to introduce it in a supplementary estimate, to which
he was sure the House would readily assent. The sum of
78,000/. for the full pay of reduced and retired officers was
then voted; and 585,5001. for half-pay and military allowances
to reduced and retired officers of his Majesty's forces.
On a resolution for granting the sum of 78,080/. to defray
the charge and reduced allowances to officers of disbanded fo-
reign corps, of pensions to wounded foreign officers, and of
allowances to the widows and children of deceased foreign

officers,
Mr. COBBETT remonstrated against squandering the
public money in such a grant.
The resolution was agreed to.
On a resolution for granting the sum of 148,9291. to de-
fray the charge of pensions to the widows of officers of the
land forces,
Mr. COBBETT said that this grant was a premium on
population ; and that premium offered at a time when the Le-
gislature was attempting in other ways to discourage popula-
tion. There was no officer, however old, ugly, or blind, who
might not find a girl to marry him, if she knew that she would
be entitled to a pension on his death.
The resolution was agreed to.
Resolutions were also agreed to for granting the sum of
159,000/. to defray the charge of allowances on the Compas-
sionate List, &c. ; and the sum of 44,5851. to defray the
charge of Superannuation Allowances.
NAVY ESTIMATES.

On the motion of Mr. C. WOOD, the following resolutions
were agreed to :-
118,547/. to defray the charges of his Majesty's Naval Esta-
blishments at home.
22,6011. to defray the charges of his Majesty's Naval Esta-
blishments abroad.
25,7611. to defray the charges of wages to Artificers, &c.,
employed in his Majesty's Naval Establishments abroad.
On a resolution for granting 62,4401. for new works and
improvements in the yards, &c.,
Mr. HUME protested against the large expenditure under
this head from year to year.
Mr. C. WOOD and Mr. LABOUCHERE explained and
defended the necessity of the grant.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote proposed was, that 124,530/. be granted to
his Majesty to defray the expenses of the Commissariat de-
partment.
After some discussion, the vote was agreed to.
The next vote was, that 51,4331. 16s. sd. be granted to his
Majesty to defray the expense of half-pay, pensions, and allow-
ances in the Commissariat department.—Agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained
leave to sit again on Monday.
The House adjourned at a Quarter-past Twelve.

77; publicntion of Tug SUN NEWSPAPER commenced this day
at 12 minutes past 3 o'clock.