The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-05 00:00:00

poses. In fact, it has been the object both of my predeces-
sors and myself to urge upon the colony the necessity of
contributing largely towards its defence. (Hear. hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL very much agreed with his hon.
friend behind him, that the colonies of Australia should
provide some means for their own defence. Some years
ago, when Secretary for the Colonies, a deputation came to
him respecting some expenses for the harbour of Sydney,
and he told them they ought to pay for them themselves.
They expressed great readiness to do so, and he believed
that since that time every Colonial Secretary had told the
Australian colonies that if they did not want to be surprised
by seeing a number of foreign ships of war some morning
before their ports, they ought to take means to defend the
approach to the harbours. (Hear, hear.) To expect that
this country should be laying taxes on the people for that
purpose was not right. (Hear, hear.) With respect to
the motion of his hon. and gallant friend for the pur-
pose of replacing the guardships by other and more
efficient vessels, he thought the answer of the right
hon. gentleman opposite was satisfactory. (Hear, hear.)
It must be left to the Admiralty to take steps from time to
time as they found opportunity, but he could not say that
he was satisfied with the answer with respect to the im-
portant report on the manning of the navy. He did not
expect the right hon. gentleman to go into details at pre-
sent, but on some other day it would be desirable that tho
house should know what was the opinion of the Board of
Adniiralty with respect to these important recommenda-
tions. Either the methods suggested for manning the
navy were judicious or not, but he could not imagine that
the right hon. gentleman was right in saying that such its
the Admiralty could carry into effect would be carried into
effect, without referring to this house for additional ex-
pense. The commissioners estimated the expense, and
they put down for improvements in the peace establish-
ments £104,000. Then, for 2,000 additional coastguard
men, £116,525 were wanted ; for 4,000 reliefs in home
ports, £132,000; and for 5,-000 short service pensioners,
Marines, £15,625. He could not imagine, therefore, that
it was sufficient for the right hon. gentleman to say that
the Admiralty would take these propositions into considera-
tion from time to time, and adopt them without asking the
house -for additional supply. (Hear, hear.) He did not,
of course, now wish to give an opinion on subjects so im-
portant, but he thought that the right hon. baronet should
fix some day, and state what was the effect of the considera-
tion by the Admiralty of that report, than which no subject
was more important. The hon. member for Birmingham
must consider that in consequence of the change in the
mode of warfare it had been necessary to enter into a very
large expense, and no question was more important than
how this country might have an efficient navy, and how
it should be manned.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he had been misunderstood
by the noble lord. Certain recemmeudations involved
great expenses, and therefore they must be dealt with by
the Government, and not by the Admiralty. Other re-
commendations referred to minor matters of detail, and it
was with respect to them that he said the Board of Admi-
ralty was competent to act of itself. With respect to the
recommendation of the reliefs of 4,000 men, he proposed,
when ho moved the navy estimates, that the house should
sanction that proposition to the extent of 3,000 men.
Mr. HORSMAN said, it was not satisfactory to be told.
in consequence of the improvements introduced into naval
warfare, that now for the first time since England was a
great maritime country this country was without that su-
periority at sea which would enable her to protect that com-
merce on which the very existence of England as a great
nation depended. (Hear.) Without sayingwhetlier or not
England was likely to remain on friendly terms with her near
ally, still this country was in such a condition that if any
unexpected emergency should arise she would not go to war
without the greatest danger of a disastrous issue, from which
she could not recover during the lifetime of any man living.
He was, therefore, very glad when attention was drawn to
the insufficiency of our naval defences, and a heavy respon-
sibility would fall on any Government or Board of Ad-
miralty that delayed one single day to strain an effort to
place the country once more in a state of maritime security.
(Hear, hear.) Let the house consider the mischiefs of an
interruption to our commerce and manufactures by the com-
mand of the Channel by any other naval power for two or
three months. He would ask them whether any eirense
necessary for the improvement of the navy was not a mere
trifle compared with the enormous consequences which
would follow such an event as he had alluded to. (Hear.)
Mr. H. BARING hoped that the Government would
give some satisfactory explanation to the house of their
intentions with respect to the recommendations of the com-
mission on the manning of the navy on the subject of the
coastguard.
Mr. LOWE said that so long as the home Government
disposed of the resources of the Australian colonies, while
they were, in fact, our penal settlements, no steps were taken
to provide them with defences of any sort. One or two at-
tempts were made to fortify the entrance to Sydney Har-
bour, but they were failures. The colonists now were anxious
to have defences, and ready to pay for them, but it was not
unreasonable to ask for one of the old liners, which were
rotting in our ports, to serve as a guardship for the harbour,
and a naval school for the youth of the colony. He hoped the
lecture of the member for Birmingham would not deter the
Admiralty from making these colonies a station for a com-
modore. We had stations on the coast of Africa and on
the coast of South America, and surely we might afford a
squadron to protect the gold ships on their passage to this
country. It had always been a matter of astonishment to
him that a fillibustering establishment had not been set
up somewhere about the Straits of Magellan. No business
could be carried on with greater ease, or with more profit.
(A laugh.) It might be the duty of the colony to pay for
its own defences, but it never could be its duty to find fleets
to defend the trade of the home country. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel SYICES was constrained to agree with the hon.
member for Birmingham that a period of disaster would
arise in this country if the disbursements went on increasing
after the ratioof the last twenty years. (Hear, hear.) This
increase could only be met by increased taxation, which the
people of this country would not bear. The expenses of
the colonies were a material portion of the disbursements,
and he was glad to hear that they were making arrange-
ments for their own defence.
Admiral WALCOTT thought there was, after all, very
little difference between the gallant admiral opposite and
the First Lord of the Admiralty. He hoped the First Lord
would direct his attention to getting the ships now in the
dockyards finished off as soon as possible. It was abso-
lutely essential that the house should, before sanctioning
any further expenditure for ships, be satisfied that the
Admiralty would build ships on a plan that would ensure
speed. We ought to dispossess ourselves of the notion that
our naval force was inferior to that of any other Power.
(Hear.) It was not respecting the character of our ships,
but the manning of them, that we need have any apprehen-
sions. (Hear, hear.) The most magnificent ship ever
built would be perfectly useless unless it were alive from
stem to stern with efficient officers and seamen. Induce.
nients ought to be held out to our seamen which would
make them proud of the navy. He had no fear about the
manning of our ships if the Government made it worth the
while of the men to enter the navy, and firmly believed that
England would be found equal to any crisis. (Cheers.)
Sir F. SMITH thought that the hon. and gallant admiral
opposite should be satisfied with the promise of the First
Lord of the Admiralty as to the removal of the blockships.
General CODRINGTON thought it should be left to the
Executive to say where particular ships should be stationed.
The country was a little disappointed that we had not a
more extensive Channel fleet. (Hear, hear.) We ought to
have a larger Channel fleet, not merely to show that we had
such a fleet, but to afford opportunities of practising to our
officers and seamen. That practice should be constantly
maintained, and gunboats should be practised with the ships
of the lme. (Hear, hear.)
The house then divided on Sir C. Napier's amendment—.
the numbers were—

Ayes
Noes

Majority against the amendment.... 37
The Speaker then left the chair, and the house went into
committee of supply.

ARMY ESTIMATES.

General PEEL (who was very imperfectly heard) said,
before entering into any explanation of the estimates it was
his duty to lay before the house, or drawing any compari-
son between the past financial year and the present one, it
was necessary the house should perfectly understand the
reasons of any apparent discrepancy in some of the amounts.
The whole amount voted last year for the army was
£11,577,755. The total estimate he should ask for to-night
was £11,568,060 ; between these sums there was a difference
of £9,695. Any one not accustomed to examine the details
of estimates would naturally come to the conclusion that
the £11,568,060 the house would be asked to vote was the
full expenditure ; but this would be an error ; the full
amount on the face of the estimate was £12,668,060. The
difference of £1,100,000 was made up of the sum due from
the East Indian Government to the Home Government for
the pay of the regiments serving in India; this would be
available for the reduction of the expenses of the present
year ; the sum available for the same purpose in the ensuing
year would be £700,000. The money due from the Indian
Government was the debt incurred for the cost of the drill,
rations, and clothing of the extra regiments sent to India,
which for six months was charged against the Indian re-
venue. That cost was for each infantry soldier £lB ls.; for
the cavalry of the line £3l 13s. 11d. per man ; Royal Horse
Artillery, £73 Bs. 9d. ; field batteries of the Royal Artillerh
£5O ss. ; and the Royal Engineers, £B4 2s. sd. per man.
This large sum of money due from the Indian Government
would be deducted from the gross estimates of the present
year. In addition there was a reduction in the expense of
the transport of troops, amounting to £200,000. The ensu-
ing year was also leap-year, and the difference of the one
day made a difference in the expenditure of nearly £20,000.
But the amount of the estimates was entirely governed by
the number of men required for the service of the country
The vote required for the pay and allowance of the land
forces for the ensuing year was £3,724,474; for miscella-
neous charges, £562,369; for clothing and necessaries,
£400,000;' for provisions, forage, fuel, light, barrack fur-
niture and bedding, £1,003,604 The estimates under all
these heads were mere matters of arithmetic, according to
the number of men composing the land forces of the coun-
try. The numerical force of the army regulated nearly all
the votes for the army ; it was remarkable how very little
the Secretary of State had to do with controlling estimates.
Even the money expended in works and fortifications was
nearly all votes sanctioned and fixed by the house, and the
Secretary of State had no power to alter or reduce them;
practically, out of a total of £12,000,000, there were not
£2,000,000 over which the War Department had any power,
or in which it could make any reduction. As the number
of men must always be the basis of the estimates, in stat-
ing what that number would be for the year ensuing, he
must observe that this was altogether an exceptional year;
ho did not think it possible to ask a greater or smaller num-
ber of men than he was about to require. The total num-
ber of men to be voted for the ensuing year, for the whole
British army, was 229,557 ; this was an increase on the
strength of lastycar of 6,683 men, the number of the army
in the past year having been 222,874. He had really no
power to increase or diminish the number required. In
order to show this it was necessary to go back to the state
of the army before the outbreak of the Indian mutiny. The
army had then just been reduced to the peace establishment,
and its strength was no greater than was required to per-
form the duties of the service abroad and at home. Only
two branches of the service were much affected by the out-
break—the cavalry and infantry ;of these, the number of
battalions and regiments despatched to India amounted to
nearly 30,000 men; 12 regiments of cavalry, and 73 bat-
talions of infantry were in India at the present time,
leaving only 7 regiments of cavalry and 72 battalions of
infantry to do the whole of the home and colonial duty.