The Sun.
London, England, 1866-04-21 00:00:00

later days, and in a parliament elected under his auspices ?
But I will ask again, is this question of reform a particularly
favourable one on which to take a vote of want of confidence?
Is it not one on which all members of the Liberal party are
treading on dangerous ground ? We cannot shut our eyes
to the fact that the question of reform is now practically in
the hands of the same Government who during the last 14
years have produced a series of reform bills, every one of
them containing a £5 or £6 franchise, and all based on the
repeated, unqualified assertion that the working classes
were wholly excluded from the franchise. (Cheers.) But
the statistical returns 'lately presented to the house show
that has been a mistake, and that 26 per cent. of the pre-
sent constituencies are of the working classes. (Cheers.)
Does not that convict the Ministers of having been legis-
lating carelessly, thoughtlessly, rashly, and dangerously ?
(Loud cheers.) Does this constitute on their part a claim
to our confidence ? And as they have leapt in the dark,
are we to leap in the dark also ? The error being dis-
covered, the Government admit that a £6 franchise
would swamp the existing constituencies, so they add one
pound that they may postpone the process for a few
years ? But what does the Chancellor of the Exchequer
say ? He says individually he has no objection to the £6
franchise. He is prepared to accept it with all its conse-
quences. Although he does not press it upon us now it is his
sincere opinion that no practical inconvenience could pos-
sibly arise from allowing the working classes to be the
majority of the whole of the constituencies. I gather now
if my right bon friend were out of office next year, and was
to vote according to his opinions, that the friend of house-
hold suffrage or those of a more extended suffrage need
not despair of his support. This may be very fine and very
courageous, and it may be very sound and wise, but it is
not the opinion of Parliament or the country, and does not
establish any fresh ground of confidence. I have no con-
fidence in the measure, and I have still less confidence in
the means that have been resorted to to force it upon a re-
luctant Parliament. I must say I see with regret a Minis-
ter of the Crown joining, assisting, and encouraging that
agitation. I must say that such a course is unprecedented
—that when a minister of the Crown has laid upon the
table an important public measure which stands as the first
measure to be considered after the recess, and which is
deserving of claim and dispassionate consideration—l say
it is unprecedented in the history of parliament that that
Minister should go down to the provinces—(cheers)—
and endeavour to excite agitation in favour of his own
bill. (Renewed cheers.) I do not express my regret
with any desire needlessly to hurt the feelings of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer—(laughter and cheers)—
but I think it is still more without parliamentary pre-
cedent that the leader of the Hauge of Commons should
go down into the provinces and make a speech to the dis-
paragement of the house of which he is a distinguished
member. (Cheers.) Now such proceedings may excite a
temporary enthusiasm, but lam sure that that enthusiasm
is dearly purchased by the loss of dignity and influence that
must follow when he resumes his place in the house. (Cheers.)
Imust say that the right hon. gentleman is also unfortunate
in the illustrations he has employed when he described the
position of the Governlnent, for he said we have broken down
our bridges and wo have burned our boats. Well, sir, but
these are the acts of desperate men. (Cheers.) They are
not usually such as to inspire confidence. They are usages
of war, of aggression, of conflagration, and desperation.
(Cheers.) Why is the peaceful object of the Government
to carry a reform bill to be associated with such appalling
images? How is it that in a time of such profound tran-
quillity, when Ministers have succeeded to an inheritance
of peace, when there is an absence of party strife or political
passion; how is it, I say, that their position is so perilous,
so critical, that the ministry should go into the provinces
and become agitators ; and that in the flights of an excited
imagination they should describe themselves as political
desperadoes, and all this as a ground for claiming our con-
fidence ? (Cheers.) I can only say let those in whom they
inspire confidence follow the ministers whose position is
described by broken bridges and burnt ships. I prefer, for
my part, the guidance of those whose mission is more peace-
ful, whose language is more assuring, who can contemplate
great constitutional changes with the calmness of states-
men, and who can win the confidence of the country by
appeals to reason, leaving to others the more exciting arts
of agitation, and trusting for success to the goodness of
their cause, the purity of their motives, and the grateful
sympathy and support of an approving country.
Mr. BRIGHT moved the adjournment of the debate,
amid cries of " Go on, go on."

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
they had arrived so near the hour of midnight, and consi-
dering the protracted length of the debate, he did not
think they could press any hon. gentleman who wished to
address the house to proceed at that hour. He thought it
would be for the convenience of the house if something
like an understanding were come to as to when the debate
was likely to terminate; and whether the right hon. gen-
tleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli) was prepared to express any
opinion on the subject. He hoped that on Monday or
Tuesday they would come to a decision on this important
question. (Cries of " Friday, Friday.")
Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, I am willing to use any influence
I may be presumed to possess towards the regulation of a
protracted debate like this upon an important subject. I
have always sincerely desired to keep in view two objects
—the ono was, to secure, as far as I could for both sides of
the house, a fair and free discussion ; and the other was,
when that discussion was obtained, to facilitate the pro-
gress of public business, even if I disapproved of the mea-
sures of the Government. (Cheers.) Now, there is no
doubt that the discussion upon the amendment of the
noble lord has been protracted for a considerable period—
but I am sure that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will
admit that the subject is one of vast importance—and
though not wishing to say anything the least discourteous
to the right hon. gentleman, I must remind him that there
is in this debate a peculiarity which has given it this pro-
tracted character, and may probably be extended beyond
that period which was at first anticipated. (Cheers.) The
house will recollect, and it is but fair to the noble lord who
moved the amendment, as well as to those gentlemen who
support it, to bear the fact in mind that that this debatewas
adjourned during the recess in a peculiar manner ,to
another place..(Cheers and laughter.) The consequence of
that operation, upon which I wish at present to make no
comment, in its effects on the debate in this house has been
that a great many speeches must be answered which were
not made in the House of Commons. (Cheers.) The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer will admit that not contented with
the usual speech of Ministers in introducing a measure, not
contented with the ordinary expositoryspeech in his place
in Parliament, he took the opportunity of visiting the county
palatine, where he made no less than six speeches on this
subject. (Cheers and laughter.) Underany circumstances
should not think myself entitled to make speeches to that
amount. We on this side of the house are not in the position
of the most favourable mortals before us, and as my name
has been mentioned frequently in the course of this debate
it will not perhaps be thought unreasonable in me to expect
that the house will allow me to make a few observations
before it terminates. (Cheers and laughter.) The debate will
be opened on Monday by an orator of commanding.. powers,
wihnatteo whatever
ta differencesdding someof ofpnienlitonn,thseoldfiorem.
entersw who,
• •which have
debatemay without
(Laughter.) From communications been made
to me not only by gentlemen whek honour me with their
confidence and friendship, but by some accounts from the
benches opposite I do not think that this debate will be
concluded by Monday evening ; but perhaps by that time
wo may be able to form some estimate as to the period of its
conclusion. (Laughter.) Under these circumstances tke
right hon. gentleman will agree with me that it will be
necessary, in order to ensure the termination of the debate
at some reasonable period, that we must all of us be pre-
pared to make some sacrifices. All cannot expect on this
motion the opportunity which I am sure all would enjoy.
(Laughter.) But still I think that on Monday evening
we shall be able to see how the debate is proceeding, and
I should certainly hope that before the end of the week
we may see its termination. (Cheers and laughter.)
The debate was then adjourned till Monday.
t 4; x CHEQUER AND AUDIT DEPARTMENTS BILL.

This bill was recommitted, and, after some discussien,
Mr. AYRTON pointed out that by the wording of the
clause, while the comptroller was rendered ineligible to sit
in the House of Commons he might have a seat in the
House of Lords, and suggested that the phraseology should
be altered so as to prevent any member of either houso
from holding that office.
Mr. CHILDERS accepted the suggestion.
At a piarter to two the CHAIRMAN, on the motion of Sir
G. BOWYER, reported progress.
The Local Government Supplemental Bill passed
through committee.
The Art Bill was read a third time, and passed.
The Prosecution Expenses Bill, as amended, was con-
sidered and agreed to.
The Lords amendments to the Cattle Sheds in Burghs
(Scotland) Bill was agreed to on the motion of Mr.
WALDEGRAVE LESLIE.

On the motion of Mr. LowE leave was given to bring in
a bill to indemnify William Hamilton Forsyth, Esq., from
certain penalties to which he may be liable for sitting and
voting as a member of the House of Commons while hold-
ing the office of standing counsel to the Secretary of State
for her Majesty's Council in India.

The bill was introduced, and passed through all its
stages.

The house adjourned at two o'clock.

We regret to announce the sudden death of Sir
Frederick Roe, well known for many years as chief magis-
trate of the metropolitan district. He died very suddenly
yesterday, in the 67th year of his age. He was/ appointed
a police magistrate at Marlborough-street in 1822, and
chief magistrate at Bow-street in 1832. He resigned in
1839.

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