The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-15 00:00:00

also read a pamphlet emanating from the institution in
question calling on Dissenters to oppose the continuance of
these rates. There has been a proposition before them on
a former occasion, which he was happy to find not brought
under their consideration this session. He alluded to the

imposition of a fabric rate. If the Liberation Society suc-
ceeded in their object, the Dissenters would derive no
benefit, and the whole religious system would be placed
under the control of a grinding beaureocracy. That was
the state which prevailed in various parts of the
continent, and their religious liberty
was un-
known. He denounced most strongly one of the grounds
in support of the bill, namely, that the maintenance of the
Church of late years had effected so much that these rates
were not required. Was it because Churchmen had made
such noble sacrifices that they should be despoiled of their
ancient and:just inheritance ?
Mr. DEEDES seconded the amendment. For a con-
siderable time he had indulged the hope that this subject
might be settled on good grounds, but he almost despaired
of that result, after what had fallen from the hon. and
learned member for Sheffield last session, who
said, "We have a majority, and nothing will
satisfy us but an abolition of church-rates."
He objected to the term compromise being used in refer-
ence to this matter, because it implied the relinquishing of
some principle; but he was ready to give the Nonconfor-
mists some equivalent for the hardships of which they com-
plained. He admitted that they (the Nonconformists) had
ground for complaining of the manner in which church-
rates had been applied, and he was ready to con-
sent to an amendment in the law in regard to that
point. He proposed to give the churchwardens the
same powers as overseers of roads and other bodies pos-
sessed, and empower them, without going to vestry, to levy
a small rate during their term of office for carrying on the
repairs of the church.
Mr. B, OSBORNE considered the time for compromise
had gone by. He denied that the agitation on this ques-
tion was fictitious, and he quoted the words of Dr. Lush-
ington, when examined before a committee on the subject,
who said that he had an experience of 40 years in reference
to the agitation, and that it was increasing in intensity
every day. (Hear, hear.) He asked the house whether
any hon. member considered the state of the law was satis-
factory ? Had not the house been tinkering with the sub-
ject for the last 20 years, and introducing bills that were
rejected ? To show that there was no ground for appre-
hending any danger to the fabric of the Church from the
a` nation of church rates, he might mention that in the
town of Boston, where the collection of these rates almost
lead to a rebellion of the inhabitants of that place, when
the impost was discontinued large sums were sub-
scribed towards maintaining the Church in a state of effici-
ency. When no less than £3,000,000 was subscribed in
Scotland towards that object, when the voluntary principle
prevailed, was it not an insult to the people of England to
suppose that they would not provide for the maintenance of
their churches ? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. WORTLEY said he considered that there was
only one remedy for the sore festering in the public mind
by these rates, that of excision. (Hear, hear.) Whether
these rates inflicted any real hardship on Dissenters or not,
it was certain that they were a great injury to the commu-
nity, and to the Church itself. (Hear, hear.) He had
arrived, after considerable deliberation, at a determinat;Cin
to vote for the second reading of this bill if a provision were
introduced for supporting the fabric of the church in
poor parishes, where no ocal fund for such a purpose
existed. There was a Church before a Church-rate was
imposed, and therefore, in agreeing to their abolition they
were not affirming a principle adverse to a State establish-
ment. (Hear, hear.) Having adverted to a case with
which he was familiar, to show the feeling of parishioners
where there was not adequate provision made, and from
which he inferred that there was no danger
in leaving the maintenance of churches to the operation of
voluntary contribution, he said, such was the munificence and
zeal of the people at large that they could not pass through
several towns or villages without seeing the spires and
turrets of churches erected by the voluntary principle.
(Hear, hear.) He believed that if these rates were abolished
numbers of Dissenters would be ready to subscribe towards
the fabric of the State Church, if such were necessary,
and he mentioned the fact of the Duke of Norfolk having
given sites for three churches to be erected in Norwich.
Mr. S. HERBERT called attention to the alteration
that had taken place in reference to these rates, by which
this imposition was the act of the majority, and such being
the case he would pause before consenting to any
change in the existing law. A number of those who op-
posed these rates were not Dissenters, but persons who did
not frequent any church whatever, and they endeavoured
to get rid of this impost on the same principle that
they opposed any other tax. Again, it had been
urged against the continuance of these rates that
they gave rise to irritation, excitement, and malice, but
in a free country, where discussion was permitted, the
same might ba asserted with respect to other subjects on
which a difference of opinion existed. The Church of
England in the country was parochial and in the towns
congregational, and they must admit the fact that it was no
longer the church of the majority. However, in dealing
with the subject they should act with justice to Churchmen
as well as Dissenters, and he approved of the resolution of
the hon. member for Bath, submitted to the house the other
evening, which proposed to abolish church-rates in towns,
and leave them in country districts. He admitted that they
could not ultimately maintain this impost, but he cared
very little about such a result, as he had too much confi-
dence in his countrymen to believe that they would suffer
the fabric of the church to fall into decay. It was not just
towards Churchmen to abolish these rates without providing
some substitute, and on that ground he would vote against
the second reading of the bill.
Mr. PACKE opposed the measure, and cited different
statistics to show that the state of the fabric of the Church
in several places was such as showed the necessity of there
being a fund to provide for their maintenance. Ho
deprecated the oppose; ion to the bill discussed last Wednes-
day, which was a proper measure, and met the legitimate
requirements of the age. Ho felt satisfied that the right
rev. prelates and other members of the House of Lords
would not commit so suicidal an act as to pass the present
bill.
Mr. GREENWOOD said ho yielded to no other mem-
ber of the house in a desire to promote the in-
terests of the Church of England, and for the sake of re-
storing harmony and peace he would vote for the second
reading of the bill. He had ransacked his brain to discover
some good grounds for the maintenance of these rates, but
without success. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS agreed with certain hon. members
that the time had gone by a compromise on this subject,
and was willing to take the opinion of the house on the
issue that had been raised by this bill. The agitation on
the subject of this impost was only an attempt to
abolish the State Church in this country, and would
have the effect of putting. into the pockets of
the landlords money which they did not require.
He appealed most earnestly to the house to resist the fur-
ther progress of the bill.
Sir J. TREL AMNY briefly replied.
The question was then put, and the house divided, when
the numbers were—
For the second reading
Against
Majority —74
The announcement was received with loud cheers.
The - house adjourned shortly before four o'clock. The
house resumed at six o'clock, and there not being 40 mem-
bers present was immediately adjourned.

LONDON GAZEOE--( THIS EVENING)

BUCKINGHAM PALACE, MARCH 14.
His Majesty the King of Portugal and the Algarves,
having conferred upon his Royal Highness the Prince of
Wales, and upon his Royal Highness Prince Alfred, the
Insignia of a Grand Cross of his Ancient, Most Noble, and
Royal Military Order of the 'rower and Sword, the Queen
has been graciously pleased to grant to their Royal High-
nesses her permission to accept and wear the same.
- -

WHITE7-IALL, MARCH 15.

The Queen has been pleased to direct letters patent to be
passed, under the Great Seal, constituting and appointing
the Right Honourable Edward Geoffrey, Earl of Derby;
the Right Honourable Benjamin Disraeli ; Thomas Edward
Taylor, Esq. ; Henry Whitmore, Esq. ; and Peter Black-
burn, Esq. ; to be Commissioners for eiecuting the offices
of Treasurer of tho Exchequer of Great Britain and Lord
High Treasurer of Ireland.
DOWNING-STREET, MARCH 14.
The Queen has been pleased to appoint Major-General
Robert Henry Wynward, C. 8., to be Lieutenant-Governor
of the Cape of Good Hope.
FOREIGN-OFFICE, MARCH 11.
The Queen has been pleased to approve of Mr. Johann
Philipp Schneider as Consul at Calcutta for the Free Han-
seatic City of Haraburgh.
FOREIGN-OFFICE, MARCH 15.
Notice is hereby given, that the Earl of Malmesbury has
appointed John Elliott Hvndman, Esq., to be agent, at
Dublin, for the issue of Foreign-office Passports ; and J.
Williams, Esq., to to be Agent, at Bath, for the same pur-
pose.

CROWN OFFICE, MARor 12.

MEMBERS RETURNED TO SERVE IN THE PRESENT PAR-

LIAMENT.
County of Northumberland, Northern Division—The
Right Hon. Algernon George Percy, commonly called
Lord Lovaine, Vice-Presidentf the Committee of the Privy
Council for Trade and Plantations.