The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-04 00:00:00

WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.

On the motion of Lard EBRINOTON, the House went into Com-
mittee on the Weights and Measures Act, Mr. PRvMe in the chair.
Clause 19, as amended, was agree.' to.
Clause 20, for providing copies of stamps for the inspectors at the
expense of the county, haring been read,

Lord ERRING TON read some extracts from the evidenc:"! taken be-
fore the Committee, to shew the necessity of providing copies of the
Exchequer standar:is, in order to secure uniformity of weights and milt-
SUreS.

Mr. WALLACE supported the system of stamping, as necessary to
protect the public both from fraud and informers. But to prevent the
use of unstamped weights and measures, either the inspectors must visit
every town and village, or they must take up central positions, to which
the public can go. But he thought the manufacturers would soon be
in a condition to accommodate the inspectors at their factories, where
the weights and measures could be stamped before they were issued to
the public. His opinions had entirely changed in favour of stamping
since last year, and rather than it shou!d not be adopted he would have
the expenses paid out of the Conso:idated Fund.
Mr. WARBURTON contended that the stamps were no security
without a constant system of inspection. The Noble Lord ha .I said,
stamps was a better mode than that recommended, in 1830, by
the Committee, viz.—that every weight and measure should
be stamped with the name of the maker. He thought diff,rently,
for when a fraudulent weight was discovered, it voted put the person
using it on his defence, and he would be compelled to prove how it be-
came fi audulent after it came from the maker.
Mr. MILES supported the clause.
Mr. ESTCOURT had heard from every person out of doors that
the stamping clause was a perfectly useless provision. The object of
the Bill wai to secure uniformity, and the means taken by appoint-
ment or Inspectors to stamp them. Then it became necessary for tradesmen
to carry their weights to the inspectors' stations, and as they were gene-
rally numerous they were conveyed in carts and waggons, and in the tran-
sit were liable to be knocked about and injured, so as to
become defective even the very instant after they were stamped. The
Hon. Member referred to the evidence given before the Parliamentary
Committee selecting extracts to show that there was no security against
frauds in the stamps.
Mr. WILKS supported the stamping clause.
Mr BENNETT opposed it, on acoount of the enormous expense
which it entailed on the trading public, especially in country districts,
where shopkeepers were compelled to carry their weights and measures
30 or 40 miles to the stations of the Inspectors.
Sir S. WIIALLEY said, that it had been the practice for half a cen-
tury` in Mary-le-bone, to have the weights and measures stamped by
parochial inspectors. The protection was not in the mere stamp,
but in the force of public opinion, for a weight having been
stamped, was known to have been once correct, and if any
man dared to altar it, and was discovered, he would be
treated by the public accordingly. (Hear, hear.)--Tliough not a Mem-
ber for the county he was the representative of a large borough which
paid a large quote of the county rate, and was therefore anxious to have
that rate reduced, but notwithstanding this he supported the stamping
clause.

Mr. ESTCOURT said that at the last meeting of the Committee
the stamping clause was negatived by a majority of one.
Sir G. CLERK said he was the author of the r,,port referred to by
the Hon. Member, and at the time it was issued he was in favour of
having the makers name stamped, but subsequent reasons had induced
him to doubt the utility of stamps of any kind. After the decision come
to on a former day, he thought the Noble Lord should not plass for the
use of stamps.
Admiral ADAM had found the trading people in that part of the coun.
try from whence he came,availed themselves of the opportunity of having
their weights adjusted and stamped with great avidity.
Mr. WALLACE found that to be the case in Scotland also, but
the stamping would be useless, he repeated, without the inspection.
The Gallery was cleared for a division, when there appeared—.
For the clause ............... 60
Against it

Majority ............... 54
On clause 21 being proposed,
Mr. JEPHSON asked whether the number of inspectors was to be
ncreased.

Lord EBRINGTON replied, that he intended to leave it optional
with the magistrates as to whether there should be any fresh appoint-
ments.

Clauses 22 to the end were then agreed to with amendments.
It being 3 o'clozk, the kink adjourned.

LONDON,
TUESDAY EVENING. AUGUST 4, 1835.

it is with shame, sorrow, and indignation we record
the fact, that a majority of seventy Tory and Ultra-Tory
Peers came last night to the resolution of defeating the
Municipal Corporation Bill, by one of those under-hand in-
`xigues for which the House of Lords is proverbially noto-
By this resolution they have to all intents and pur-
poses—whatever they may allege to the contrary—flung
down the gauntlet of defiance to the people. Nay, more,
they have actually drawn themselves up in battle-array
against them. They have declared that, so far as they are
concerned, Reform shall henceforth be a dead letter. True,
they will give us the name, but they will deprive us of
the thing. The shadow is ours, and welcome ; but if
we presume to ask for the substance, their Lord-
ships' answer is ready Come and take it ! We
accept their challenge. We will come. But not in
arms, but with the book of the Constitution—a far
more effective weapon—in our hands !We will come,
clad in the panoply of justice ; and thus cased in adamant,
and backed, besides, by the moral influence of three King-
doms, we will not only wrest our dues, \o the last farthing,
from their Lordships' tenacious grasp, Aut take care also
that for the future they are deprived of even the temptation
to defraud us. The question has now come to such a pass,
that either the House of Lords or the people must give
way. No intermediate steps can be taken. We must either
clap a muzzle on their Lordships, or else consent to see the
fruits of the Reform Bill snatched at once and for ever from
our grasp.

rious.

We can conceive nothing more jesuitical--nothing more
discreditable, considering the forbearance the people have
shown towards them for the last four years and upwards,
than their Lordships' conduct last night. Under pretence
of advocating the rights of freemen, they are striking the
dagger right to the heart of freedom. Under pretence of
proceeding with deliberation, they are striving to strangle
the Corporation Bill, by a series of vexatious delays for
which, with all their sophistry, they cannot find even the
shadow of a justification. How poorly off for argument must
they have been on this head, whe❑ Lord LYNDHURST, their
chief spokesman, was compelled to fly for help to the town-
clerk of Leicester ! This illustrious functionary " was dis-
tinctly of opinion," observed his Lordship, "that the Corpora-
tion Commission was illegal !" And so, because the town-
clerk of Leicester—a most disinterested evidence no doubt
—happens to be of this opinion, the people are bound to
adopt the same. We are to have no Municipal Reform,
because the town-clerk of Leicester deems it inexpedient.
No matter what Ministers may say, no matter what the
House of Commons may say ; the town-clerk of Leicester
is against us; and therefore we must submit ! And is it
thus that the people of three kingdoms, but of or;, 'neart,
are to be insulted ? When they thunder for Municipal
Reform, are they to be referred fcr an answer to a town-
clerk ? Since when have such provincial mushrooms been
authorities with their Lordships ? Really democracy must
have made prodigious strides, when the opinions of a mere
creature of yesterday, one of the very lowest of the Cor-
poration functionaries, are preferred to these of such con-
summate legislators as Lords BROUGHAM and MELBOURNE!
But, perhaps, their Lordships may allege, in justifica-
tion of their preference, that these last are interested par-
ties. Well, and is the Leicester town-clerk disinte-
rested ? Has he nothing to lose by Reform—nothing,
to gain by its delay ? But to press this point fur-
ther. Is the Tory section of their Lordships! House so
wholly uninterested, that they can afford to give a dispas-
sionate consideration to the Municipal Reform Bill ? Have
they no eye to a future election ? No fear that when once

this measure is paSse:l, down will go their last prop from as
them ? Wliativer they may think on the subject, tae
tell them that the people know and feel that their pre
opposition is the result of intensest self-interest ; and
girding it in this light, are resolved, at all hazards, to 11
tralize it.
But to recur to the debate. Lord BuciuGHAm's spo'
was in his happiest style of mingled sarcasm and argunte
Ile cut and carved HoGG, as never poor porker was
mangled. He literally flayed him alive. As for
LYNDHURST, who atternl:ted a reply, he cut just the s
of figure that a man may be expected to cut, who gots,
in a public assembly to prove that black is white.
only fact was a fiction. For instance, he stated that i!
PARK-Es was once Secretary of the Birmingham 001,
Now it so happens that he 'never was. But what of chi
It was necessary to his LAiship's case, in default of all
went, that he should make this statement ; and aceordi!ll
he made it, For he is not one to stick at trifles. By the b;
his Lordship's attack on Whig consistency was sonictbl
indiscreet, to say the least of it. Has he no recollection
the days when he himself was all but a Radical? A lectute,
this subject comes from him with as bad grace, as it 7°'
from that episcopal Proteus, 'Dr. PHILLPOTTS..
The Duke of WELLINGTON observed, " that he had at
been disposed to go into committee with a view of making nice!
tions in the Bill, but when he came to hear counsel et the u'
he saw it was impossible for him to do otherwise than agree
the motion of Lord CARNARVON." A more miraculous
version than this, is not recorded in sacred or profane lust
His Grace expressly states that he was converted by 60111
quence of counsel ; but it unluckily happens that durinlV;
major part of Sir CHARLES WETUIERELL'S speech, on So.to
day, he was fast asleep ! Ay, and not only fast asleepi v.;
snoring--actually snoring !--in a way that must have conyil
the most incredulous how profound was the attention whit
he, sentence by sentence, paid to the arguments of
Learned Gentleman ! A fact like this needs no comment',
Lord NIELBOURNE'S speech was one of the finest display;
stern, straight-forward eloquence it ever fell to our lot
hear. It was worthy of a Spartan senator in the best dat
Spartan integrity. His Lordship broadly stated that be Pi
been " deceived and misled"—emphatic words from oaqii
never says more than he means, or is prepared to
by--" as to the intentions of the opponents of the
poration Bill ;" and that he would never again "
into such an understanding with those, who afterli
may not have the will, or may want the power, to give etroetA;
them." Bravo, my Lord ! The people to whose inflo',"
you here indirectly allude, will stand by you thror gh.
your struggles. Let the thunder howl—let the 'sight .
flash—no matter, you have still the means, tkoimigh
tit
allaying the storm, and purging the at
its impurities ! England is with you. Ireland is tip
you. Scotland is with you. 7..osphere 0'
y then with an, 'sp
apprehensions. Scatter distrust
the armour of the Constitutio:-., ; uplift the oriflamme of
_Tip
dom ; and thousands—m. 4..0 the winds. Buckle
';:tions shall hasten from all goal:4
to rally under the
last year, by august banner. The insult passed
v.,':ur unceremonious dismissal from offioel,
not fore:-.;(ten by us. You were the Minister of j?
free, unbiassed choice; and we felt and still feel,
_.„„4
in the affront then levelled at you, we ourselves ris
affronted. We subjoin his Lordship's closing obserratinosPlot
they are full of emphasis. A more solemn warning 10_01
been pronounced within the walls of the House of Lords,
'`. t
CHATHAm's famous declaration against the American war
`• My Lords, the Learned Counsel at your bar has told you that
Bill will prove the destruction of this House—' ilia dies utra7di
ducet ruinani.' Why, my Lords, every one who knows the PP°7
thus quoted by the Learned Counsel, knows that it alludes toad )
self-immolation—of self-destruction—of suicide, my Lords; and 0' d
Lords, I can agree with the Learned Counsel, in thinking that 0,0
follow the advice offered to you with respect to this Bill, it may tad!
prove the destruction of you. House."
AO -
We close these hasty remarks with a few words of
to the people. Meet--petition—remonstrate I Do not
dress the House of Lords, for it is useless; but Del
your appeal •to the KING and the Commons.
them, in respectful but decided terms, that as
demand nothing but what is your's by constitutional right
ito
you will accept of no compromise—of nothing short of a s
wholesale restoration of your privileges. Tell them, also, that
~
,5
will not be put down by a faction ; that iftheir Lordshipstri"s"
to cut their own throats—so be it, they shall not cut yorio;
that you respect them, but you have a still greater renpelo
yourselves: that, in short, you arc as unanimous—as ren°o
—and as determined to have justice done you, as ever Id
your patriotic ancestors in the days of CHARLES the 1"1,;
Use language of this sort, and possibly their Lordships ols1„00
induced to throw away the axe with which they have just 'so,
furnished themselves, for no other purpose, as it
rryid nee
than to strike at the roots of their own existence.

The Irish Church Reform Bill was re-committed
night, and the Report ordered to be brought up this (I
A discussion of considerable interest arose on the j,
clause, by which it is proposed to remit the million ;
vanced to the Irish Clergy in 1833, to be repaid
(y
of the tithes. Mr. D. W. HAnvEY opened the y
bate in a speech of considerable ability, in which
or
shewed the hardship imposed upon the people of
land in being so unceremoniously called upon to lt
the debts due to the Irish Clergy by the people of that c°:
is
stytry. There can, we think, be but one opinion on this s
ject—the hardship of the case is universally admitted;
iv
difficulty is how to avoid it. The Government advanced
money to the Clergy, taking its chance of repayment from
arrears of tithes then due, which it thought it had the P°L
of recovering. It tried to recover these arrears, and got 12.u:ist
at an expense of 28,0001. ! Such a mode of repayment
to
not likely to be very advantageous if persevered in, and 0
Government wisely desisted from enforcing the claim. Ltd,
now proposed to convert tithes into a rent charge on the ilk
payable by parties never before liable for tithes, and theoe
blem to be solved is who is to pay the arrears? Werflo
question to be decided in a court of law there would by 1101-01,
culty whatever. The judge would tell the jury that the 'de,
tivator of the soil is the party liable. But these parties 0,
dare, one and all, they wont pay, and they are SEVSN Soo
LIONS. This settles the matter, as far as they Y 6
concerned. The Clergy again say to the Government, oti
agreed to take our tithes as security for your money- 411
have no other means of paying you, and ex nihilo
,ihi,l.4
The only other party was the landlords, and theyo
not without reason, " Is it not enough' that you
pel us to take upon ourselves the future payment of ti
Must we also be answerable for the del:.is of the former urio
payer? This you may force us tom, do, but it is contra/
every principle of justice."
It is not easy to see how 'the Government, in such
circd~~
stances, could have acted otherwise than it has done, unini
had been possible to burden the benefices or stipends of
clergymen who received the money, with the interest of tot
respective amounts. He who has had the benefit of the
90
ought not to complain of this, and his successor can have
right to do so.
The original clause was carried by a majority of 227 ; 0011
numbers being-252 to 25.

• oe
It will be seen by our Parliamentary report that a diogof
took place last night in the Commons on the question
to
THOMAS MOORE KEITH'S discharge. This person,
o,
readers readers are aware, was deeply concerned in the ae.)
rious attempt to' hush up the bribery job by o'l°
DUNDAS and KELLY got into Parliament for the borougof
of Ipswich. He it was who first hit upon the plea ty
of sending PILGRIM out of the kingdom to avoid p
SPEAKER'S warrant, and then trumped up a charge of felc'dy
against him to prevent his return. CLIPPERTON °
SPARROW who were implicated, though in a subordilTtobi
degree, in the same transaction, have been imprisoned, :ej,
one seven weeks and the other five, and it was proP°;.„,
by Lord STORNIONT, the representative of a kindred
the
rough—indeed, he had given notice of a motion to Obi
effect for to-morrow--that this man, the principal in tof
transaction, should be discharged after a confinement
o
seven days. On the SPEAKER's intimating to the /Om
last night that he had received a letter from
Member for Norfolk, stating that KEITH was
quired to go before the Grand Jury of that eltu;s
to complete the evidence against PILGRIM, tbe
Mr.
moved that KEITH should be permitted to
go before 5,
Grand Jury in the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arm
when Lord STORMONT proposed his own motion
.9013'A,
for a future day, as an amendment on that of Mr. fluPj.
namely, that KEITH be brought to the bar and dischargeko
A debate ensued, in which Lord J. RUSSELL stated that b
was favourable to the amendment, as he thought that enongo
had been done, in the way of example by sending. aid
persons to Newgate. We are sorry the Noble Lord 00,,
not enter more fully into the merits of the
(Inefitivot
and state his reasons more at large ; for we ennuor
help thinking that lie must have had better roc!
sons than that on which he professed to fuuce
his conclusion. It is utterly impossible to belts $
that a man of Lord JOHN RUSSELL'S stamP---,,,
man of an enlightened mind and a sound understfwaing'bo
could sanction the principle that the ends ofi.astice caning
answered by punishing a portion of the gi:'ittY, and let to
the rest escape, or to put it as this case warrants.not•
—by punishing the accessaries, end setting the flied
pal free. We are happy that toe Noble Lord's misetbe
lenity was overruled by +Lc more salutary severity alcßes
House of Commor,,;. There is no class of offeri,, of
whom we thin!: more deserving of a rigoroui measure
-the
punishm.Lnt, than those who demoralize the portion %rot
e'2,-dimunity entrusted with thy guardianship of the cliebe is
rights of their countrymen ; and we are sure it Will 0 to
the highest degree satisfactory to the electors at largo'ch
find their representatives determined to
put a stoP.t° the
infamous and baneful practices, by every means
In
power.

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London : Printed and Published by_MURDO YOUNG, oil
112, Strand, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in tbe c°of
•
of Middlesex.

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