The Sun.
London, England, 1866-08-31 00:00:00

Mr. Laing and His Constituents,

(From the Northern Ensign.)
On Monday evening Mr. Laing addressed his
Wick constituents in the Temperance-hall. Mr.
Laing's visit to Wick had been anticipated for some
time with considerable interest, chiefly in conse-
quence of the repeated assurances from various
quarters that he would scarcely dare to face the
electors, and that if he did a vote of censure on his
Parliamentary conduct with reference to the Reform
Bill would be carried by an overpowering majority.
Mr. Laing accordingly resolved to put these
i predic-
tions to the test ; and although the season s the
worst for holding public meetings, all classes being
absorbed in the herring fishing, he selected the best
night for a meeting, and liberally circulated placards
calling it. The night was wet, but the attendance,
which at first was considerable, gradually increased
till the large hall was filled.
Mr. LAING said—The Session which has just ex-
pired has witnessed a great many exciting political
events. Of course, honest differences of opinion
must prevail on such questions as we have bad before
us ; and conscious that such differences must prevail
I think it much better for a member of Parliament
to meet his constituents frankly and openly, and
explain his votes and state his opinions without re-
serve. (Cheers.) With that view I have to thank
you for coming here to-night to hear me. The most
exciting topic of the Session was the Reform Bill
which was introduced by the late Government. On
that question my votes are before the public and
speak for themselves. I believe there has been some
misunderstanding and misrepresentation of my ac-
tion in regard to that measure. I have even heard it
said that I voted against Reform altogether, or
against an extension of the franchise. Now, in point
of fact, I did nothing of the sort. (Cheers.) I voted
for the £l4 rental in counties and £7 in boroughs,
and, in fact, voted with the Government and for
the bill on every division, with one exception.
That was to compel the introduction of a com-
plete measure, dealing with the redistribution
of seats as well as the franchise. (Cheers and
hisses.) I had a very strong feeling that any mea-
sure which re-opened the great settlement of the
Reform Bill of 1832 ought to be, like it, a complete
measure, holding out a fair prospect of a permanent
settlement, at any rate for a considerable term of
years. It was evident that no measure could effect
such a settlement which dealt with a part only of the
question, and left untouched the most important and
difficult part of any Reform—viz., the redistribu-
tion of seats. (Applause.) It was a farce to talk
of Reform which left decaying villages in the west
of England, such as Honiton, with a larger voice
in the representation than such counties as Lanark,
or such cities as Dundee or Aberdeen. (Applause.)
As a Scotch member I should have been deserting
my duty if I allowed the opportunity of a resettle-
ment of Reform to pass without endeavouring to
obtain some redress for the glaring inequality in the
representation of Scotland, whether measured by
population or property. (Applause.) Accordingly,
I exerted myself to the utmost to compel the Go-
vernment to couple a measure for the redistribution
of seats with that for the extension of the franchise.
Our efforts were successful, and the Government
found the feeling among their own supporters so
strong that they were compelled to give way, and
bring in a bill which provided for the transfer of
50 seats from small and decaying boroughs to large
and populous constituencies, and which gave seven
of the suppressed seats to Scotland. (Applause.) I
do not suppose this vote requires any justification,
for it has been fully justified by the result. Ibe
lieve therelis no one who does not now admit that
the Reform' Bill ought to have been complete from
the first, and that Ministers committed a great mis-
take in supposing that the House of Commons could
be hoodwinked into passing half a measure. As far
as I know, no one ever approved of such a mode of
dealing with Reform, except a few advanced Radi-
cals, whose avowed object was not to settle the
question, but to keep alive continued agitation by
keeping Reform Bills before Parliament Session after
Session. At any rate, the late Government admitted
their error, for they altered their course, although
they had carried the second reading of their
Bill by a small majority, and the practical result of
the efforts of those who, like myself, advocated a
complete measure was to supplement the original
bill by one redistributing 50 seats, and giving seven
additional seats to Scotland. (Applause.) If this
be hostility to Reform, the Reformers of 1832 who
insisted ou the disfranchisement of Gatton and Old
Sarum were, I suppose, Tories in disguise. (Ap-
plause.) However, having got a complete measure
of Reform, I voted for it on all subsequent ocea

sions. I did so with considerable doubt, for, as I
shall state presently, there were many things in the
bill of which I did not approve; but, on the whole,

I thought that as long as there was a chance of set-
tling the question by anyfair compromise it was my
duty to cling to that chance, and not give a vote
calculated to defeat Reform altogether. I attached
great importance to the settlement of the question
when it had once been raised, feeling that if left

open to agitation it might revive those feelings 431
antagonism between classes which have happily be.
come extinct. (Applause.) Accordingly I was pre.
pared to go a long way in waiving my own indivi•

dual views for the sake of effecting a compromise,
and settling the question, even though it had been
necessary for Parliament to sit all the autumn for
the purpose. (Applause.) I should have been quite
willing to have sat at Westminsterthe whole autumn
if there had been a possibility of settling the matter
by that means. At the same time I have never con-

cealed that I thought the measure very crude and
imperfect, and that the break up of the Liberal Go-

vernment was an almost necessary consequence of

their conduct in regard to it. I believe the problem
of Reform may be thus stated :—On the one hand
we have a system which, since the great Reform
Bill of 1832, has worked admirably, which has car-
ried out so many reforms that no practical griev-
ances remain to be redressed, and which repre-
sents with great accuracy the real enlightened
public opinion of the country, and the interests
of all its principal eimseis.
On the other
hand, the progress of intelligence and respecta-
bility among the working classes has been
such as to call into existence a large number
of men who are quite as well qualified for votes
as many of the £lO householders, and whom it is
in every respect desirable to include within the pale
of the constitution. But there is one great difa-

culty in the way of enfranchising this class, which
arises from their number. It is obvious that if the
working classes generally are admitted by a simple
and uniform reduction of the household franchise,

their superior numbers will enable them to swamp
all other classes, and must ultimately lead to the
substitution of democratic institutions for that

mixed form of government which now prevails with
such happy results. Accordingly the great, and, as
far as I know, the sole argument for reopening the

question of Reform in quiet times, when there is no
practical grievance, and no definite demand for

specific change, is, that it affords an opportunity
for considering the various means of solving this
complex problem, and importing into the constitu-
tion new
the working classes largely and liberally to the
franchise, without risk of materially altering the
present constitution of the House of Commons,
which works so admirably. Now, the great objec-
tion which I felt to theedt.i, Government scheme of Re-
form as that
solvin
of it ignor
shirked
questionsese altogether,
and, instead g,difficulties
every think-
ing man feels to be the real of the ques-
tion. For instance, the following are a few of the
points which ought to have been thoroughly
worked
out, with the aid of complete statistics, bywanty
Ministry introducing a Reform Bill which as
be, like that of 1832, a great constitutional settle-
ment of questions vitally affecting the future desti-
nies of this great empire. In the first place, should
the extension of the franchise to the working classes

be based solely on household residence, or partly
on the possession of property and partly on
education? The former is Mr. Bright's view, who

advocates household suffrage, and accepts a £7
rental franchise as a step towards it. But the
advantages of a "property" over a "brick and

mortar" franchise are in many respects very great.
it is a far better test of the fitness of the work-

ing-class voter than the accident whether rents are
low or high in the locality in which be resides. There
is a striking illustration:of the anomaly involved in
the "brick and mortar" franchise, if you compare
Wick with many towns in the south. A£6 house
here is a much better house than a £lO house in the
large towns of England, and a £6 householder in a
small town is in every way more worthy of possess-
ing the franchise than a £lO householder in a popu-
lous city where rents are high. (Applause.) It
makes the franchise a vast instrument of moral im-
provement, which consideration is almost entirely
abandoned if we adopt the " brick and mortar" as
our sole principle. For these reasons I have always
viewed with favour the old constitutional forty shil-
ling freehold franchise, and advocated its introduc-
tion into Scotland. If, taking this as our basis, a
£4O franchise (which represents the capitalised value
of 40s. a year) could be introduced, enabling every
man to obtain a vote who, by economy and good
conduct, bad acquired property of any description
of the value of £4O, whether in the savings-banks
or any other banks, or in stocksi shares, land, house,
boat, and nets—( a laugh)—or other stock in trade,
or an interest in any insurance, building, or co-
operative society, I think you would not deny that
it would be most desirable. (Applause.) I know
of no objection to such a franchise, except that there
might be practical difficulties in working the regis-
tration ; but, as I have already said, what have we
a Government for, and why do we raise the ques-
tion of Reform in quiet times, if it be not to go
thoroughly into such questions as to whether the
difficulties of working a property franchise really
are insuperable ? In the second place, there is the
education test, proposed in a Bill introduced last
Session by Mr. Clay, which met with much sup-
port from earnest Liberals. Admitting that the
idea of a competitive examination as the sole test
for the franchise is chimerical, might not some edu-
cational test be adopted ? There is not a railway
company which does not require reading and writ-
ing as a qualification test for a common porter, and
would it be unreasonable to impose it as a test for
exercising a voice in the policy and councils of the
British Empire ? Again, is it impossible, with the
machinery of the Civil Service Commission, to
establish some system of examination, open to every
one, not specially connected with the annual regis-
tration of voters, but by which any one might obtain
a sort of elementary degree, or certificate of educa-
tion up to a certain standard, which, while available
for other purposes, might carry with it, when coupled
with other qualifications, such as age and residence,
the right to be placed on the register? The sound
principle I take it, in extending the franchise to
classes whose numercial preponderance endangers
the balance of the Constitution, is to endeavour to
make the possibility of obtaining a vote as wide as
possible, so that no deserving man can say that he
is inevitably excluded, but to couple the actual vote
with some easy test which shall require some mode-
rate degree of foresight, prudence, and self-denial
to obtain it, for you are not to throw your seats
broadcast to those who will take no pains to possess
them. (Applause.) There is a third point of great
importance which ought to be thoroughly consi-
dered, and that is, whether it is necessary or de-
sirable that any new Reform Bill should go on the
principle of an invariable and uniform reduction of
the franchise in all boroughs alike ? It is notorious
that in England the class of intelligent artisans and
mechanics who desire the franchise, and who would
be likely to give an independent vote,.existssmainly
in the large towns and manufacturing districts,
while in the smaller boroughs, in many of which
bribery and undue influences already prevail, the
effect of an indiscriminate reduction of the house-
hold fragchise would almost certainly be to increase
those evils. I may refer to one instance—the town
of Great Yarmouth—which has lately come under
my personal knowledge, because I sat on the Par-
liamentary Committee appointed to inquire into the
legality of the election for that place. It is a good
sized English town, of between 30,000 and 40,000
inhabitants, and it appeared that bribery had always
prevailed in that borough to such an extent that the
honest man there was not the man who took no bribe
at all, but the man who was only bribed on one side,
for it was the common practice for a man to take

bribes from both parties, and finally to vote for the
side that paid him best. (Laughter.)
.In that
borough of Great Yarmouth, owing to the preva-

lence of bribery, the whole class of freemen were
disfranchised ; but that did not remedy the evil, for
corruption having entered the glace, the £lO house-
holders continued to receive bribes. The practical
effect of a uniform measure of extension in a borough
like Yarmouth would be to put back on the register

.he class of men who were struck off for bribery

Now, it deserves serious thought whether a uniform
scale ought to be applied to such places as these and
other towns -where no such effects could be dreaded.

Again, there are classes of boroughs, such as the
Scotch boroughs, where a £6 franchise will notori-

ously give a higher standard of respectability and
intelligence than would be given by an £8 franchise
in the ordinary English boroughs. Is it absolutely
necessary to overrule these considerations, and lay
down a principle of unqualified uniformity, which
must lead, sooner or later, to the preponderance of
mere numbers ? There is a fourth matter that de-

mands deliberation, and that is the question of the
representation of minorities. Almost all thinkers
who have approached the subject have contended
for some system of voting by which large and in-
fluential minorities might secure some share of the
representation. Earl Russell adopted this principle
in his Reform Bill of 1854, and its adoption in the
present instance seemed more than ever appropriate,
to give three members to a number of large con-
stituencies, in which it was desirable, on the one
hand, not totally to swamp the Conservative ele-
ment, and on the other, to secure some special re-
presentation for the working classes. Not a word,
however, fell from any member of the late Govern-
ment to show that this important point had been
ever considered. In the fifth place, the question of
the expense of elections ought to be considered. I
do not speak of Scotch elections, or of my own elec-
tion ; for here, as generally in Scotland, the expense
is very moderate indeed. (Applause.) But in Eng-
land the contrary is the case. There the expense of
elections is becoming really enormous. It is be-

coming so heavy in the counties that it is difficult
to get respectable country gentlemen to come for-
ward as candidates, and it thus tends to throw the

representation into the hands of some great noble-
man or Some • millionaire,
olorn
•
matraen,lfvahcot
uhraess amassed.
l t
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a
for
tune by trade
great evil that through
the
u
expense now attendinc, immense and increasing
English elections, Parliament
is rendered difficult °of
expense
to all who have not
vast wealth, and if the
the result will be that you willpn se
have goesf
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or
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oi ni
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The increasing expense of elections, and b
preva-
lence of direct and indirect bribery in manye consti-
tuencies, are admitted to be great evils, nor can it
be doubted that in many cases the proposed increase
in the number of voters would have simply aggra-

vated the existing state of things. Without re-
quiring, therefore, that all the clauses of a bill for
the prevention of bribery should be engrafted in a
Reform Bill, it was reasonable to expect that this
important branch of the subject should have received
some consideration. For instance, unless the re-
presentation of minorities were to be adopted, why

should three membere have been given to one over.

grown constituency, instead of dividing it into two
or more manageable districts ? There is one other
point of great consequence that ought to

Is
be considered—viz., the principle of rating.
or is not the old constitutional principle a right
one which couples payment of rates with the right
of voting ? or, in other words, which declares
that the duties and privileges of citizenship shall go
together? This principle was maintained by the
Reform Bill of 1832, and there could not have been
a greater or more fundamental change than to
abandon it. No reason whatever was assigned for
this important change. (Applause.) Mr. Glad-
stone gave some reason why the column of " gross
estimated rental," rather than that of " rateable
value" in the English rate-book, should be adopted,
but this was quite consistent with maintaining the
prificipies of the Reform Bill, of requiring pay-

ment of rates as a condition of voting, and it was
on this ground, and this alone, that I voted against
Lord Duukellin's amendment. At a subsequent
stage I should certainly have voted for maintaining
the rate-paying clauses of the old Reform Bill.
(Applause.) Then there is another question, the
last I shall refer to, which ought to be fully con-
sidered in any Reform Bill, and that-is, as to the
boundaries and grouping of burghs. With a large
reduction of the county franchise, it became a
question of first-class importance how the boun-
daries of burghs were to be adjusted. In a great
many counties the predominance of the Democratic
and urban or of the Conservative or agricultural
element, must depend mainly on the manner in
which the boundary lines of large towns are drawn.
If, for instance, in Warwickshire you keep to the
old town of Birmingham, and leave all its suburbs
in the county, the county member will, in fact, be
only an additional member to Birmingham. As
the English counties have nothing like their due
share of the representation, whether we take the
test of population_ or property, they have a right to
require that this important point should not be left
to chance. The boundaries of towns should be so
adjusted as to prevent the counties being swamped
by the representation of towns which already have
their own members. Now, as to the grouping of
burghs, that is a principle which r approve entirely,
because I think it works well in Scotland, but it is
one which requires to be wrought out with
greatly more care and circumspection than what
was given it in the scheme introduced by the
Government last Session. These are a few
of the points which ought to have been thoroughly
considered in proposing a new settlement of the great ques-
tion of Reform, and the failure of the bill and disruption
of the Liberal party are, in my judgment, distinctly due to
the original mistake of the late Government in pledging
themselves to stand or fall, not by the passing of a Reform
Bill, but by the passing of a Reform Bill in Ind of a single
session, thus necessarily precluding themselves from any-
thing like a full consideration of the questions which were
sure to arise, and which, in the interests of the country,
ought to have received mature deliberation. Now, there
are some who will tell you that the opposition to the mea-
sure arose from hostility to Reform, and a secret wish to trip
up the Government. So far from any factious opposition to
Government, or disguised hostility to Reform having caused
their failure, I can state most positively—for I believe I
was as much behind the scenes in'the House of Commons
last session as most men, and from the situation I previ-
ously held as Secretary to the Treasury, I know the work-
ing of the house—l say I can :mute you most positively
that, over and over again, loyalty to party and unwilling-
ness to appear hostile to Reform alone saved the bill from
rejection by large majorities, and many of the staunchest
Liberals in the House of Commons sincerely regretted the
course adopted by the Ministry, which they were anxious
to save if possible. (Applause and hisses.) There were not
more than half a dozen members on the Liberal side who
voted uniformly against the Government. Of the others,
the Ministers always received their support, except on
questions on which their best supporters had strong and
conscientious convictions, or such matters of detail as the
House of Commons were fairly entitled to express a vote
upon. For instance, on that question upon which they
were formally defeated there were 44 Liberal members
who voted against them. But of the 44 I venture to say
that at least E 4 were earnestly desirous to keep the Minis-
try in power and settle the Reform question, if possible, in
this Session. But they had a strong opinion on the ques-
tion of rating—an opinion which, I confess, I shared with
them, though, rather than defeat the Government and the
Reform measure, I voted with the Ministers ; and they
thought, and I think fairly enough, that the question
whether we were to have a £6 rating or a £7 rental fran-
chise, was one upon which the Government might have
consulted the House of Commons ; and it took them very
much by surprise, indeed, when the Ministers made a
point of honour of it, and threw up their seats. However,
it is not for me to criticise their conduct on that occasion.
I simply relate the facts, and I do maintain that there
never was anything like a strong party of malcontent Li-
berals or Adullamites, as they are called, but that, with
the exception of some half-dozen men, the Liberals who
did not uniformly suppiirt the Ministry on that question
were both staunch supporters of the Government and of
Reform, and only wished to save the Ministry from the
consequences of their own errors. ("Hear} hear," and ap-
plause.) As for stigmatizing such men as " enemies of
the working classes," and " dirty conspirators," I can only
say that it is simply another proof of the one-sided intoler-
ance which seems, in all times and all countries, to ba the
besetting sin of demagogues. (Cheers and hisses.) It is all
very well for Mr. Bright (cheers) and his followers to call

for a simple measure. In their view the question is a very
simple one. They think the existing Parliamentary sys-
tem radically bad, opposed to all good works, the offspring
of landlord Power in the counties, and corruption and tur-
bulence in the towns. (Cheers and hisses.) Holding
such views, the only question they have to ask about
a Reform bill is—• Does it go all in one direction, and
that direction towards democracy ? If so, it is au
honest measure ; and even if it does not go the full
length they desire, it is good as unsettling what exists and
giving additional leverage for further iunovation. But the
problem is very diflicultand far more complex for those who
admire and revere the existing institutions of the country,
and who think that, take it all in all, the British Constitu-
tion, since the Reform Bill of 1832, has worked better than
any political syttem recorded in history. (Cheers.) For my
own part I do not hesitate to avow that I am entirely op-
posed to the views of Mr. Bright and his party upon this
point. (Applause and hisses.) lam a firm believer in the
excellence of our existing constitution, and prefer it greatly
to any system of pure democracy, whether organised into
an Imperial despotism as in France, or existing as a free
and independent republic in America. (Applause.) I be-
lieve that it gives us more real liberty, more peaceful pro-
gress, more stable policy, and a higher standard of civilisa-
tion. (Loud cheers.) I doubt whether the principles of
free-trade and of non-intervention, to which we owe mainly
our great national prosperity, could ever have been estab-
lished or could continue to exist under a system which
transferred political power from intelligence to numbers.
(Cheers and hisses.) I am certain that our world-wide
commerce and immense colonial and Indian empire would
be endangered, if the tone and spirit of an American
Congress were ever to be established for that of a British
Parliament in the great central assembly which is the ❑lti-
mate depository of political power for a quarter of the
human race. (Applause.) My experience in India has made
me more conservative in this sense of the word, so that I
am most deeply impressed with tne magnitude of the mis-
sion which we are working out, and the greatness of the
task intrusted to us. The destinies of two hundred millions
of human beings in the East depend mainly on the wis-
dom of British policy and the superiority of the British
race. We must exercise much prudence and self-
restraint ; we must maintain the unbroken thread of
our political traditions, and persist in a continued line
of wise and far - seeing policy, if we wish to show
ourselves worthy of this high destiny. Should we do so
if the majority of our House of Commons consisted of me-
troplitan members ? It is idle to disguise from ourselves
that this is a most grave and serious question. (Cheers.)
On the other hand, there can be no doubt that the working
classes ought to be, and must be, more extensively admit-
ted to the franchise. A man who, while supporting him-
self and family respectably by the honest labour of his
hands, has sufficient education and intelligence to feel an
interest in political matters: is certainly better qualified
than many a £lO householder. The problem, I repeat, is
how to admit him without destroying the balance of the

constitution. It is a difficult problem, but the time has

come when it must be solved. (Cheers.) I am far from
thinking that the session has been wasted because no Re-
form Bill has been passed, as a certain amount of discus-

sion was necessary to clear the way. One great point has
been firmly established, and that is, that no Government can

hope to succeed who do not boldly and consistently grapple
with the whole question. (Applause.). Another is, that a
mere Radical solution of it, supported by vague declama-
tion about " fellow-Christians of the same flesh and blood
as ourselves," which will apply equally to criminal and
female suffrage, has no chance of success ; and that any set-
tlement must be in the nature of a fair compromise between
different classes and interests. (Loud cheers and hisses.)
In this view I think the question is much narrowed. The
burgh franchise, in the ordinary run of English burghs, in
any new Reform Bill, can hardly be much higher or lower
than a £6 rating or a £7 rental franchise, coupled with the
condition of paying rates. That of counties will probably
be a £l4 rating franchise. Any deficiency in the number
of the working classes thus enfranchised, as compared with
that proposed by the bill of the lateGoVernment, should be
made up, and more than made up, by supplemental fran-
chises based on property and education. (Cheers.) If
three members" are given to very large constituencies, the
principle of the representation of minorities should be
coupled with it, otherwise these large constituencies
should bo divided into districts, so as to diminish the
expense of elections. In any case, from forty to fifty
seats should be redistributed, giving half to counties, and
the prior claim of Scotland met by giving not less than seven
seats either taken from those redistributyd, orby an addition
to the total number of members. (Cheers.) The boundaries
_ _ .

of burghs should be drawn so as to include within the Curgl;
all such suburbs as really form part of the same community.
Such, I believe, are the outlines of such a Reform Bill as

will have a- fair chance of passing the present House of

Commons, and I can only say that, as far as I am con-

cerned, it 'should have my earnest support, whether pro-

posed by a Liberal or by a Conservative Government.

Now, gentlemen, I have done with the question of Re-
form, and I shall just advert shortly to the other great
topic of interest which has occurred during the recent

session—viz., that of the occurrences on the Continent. I
think we must all feel that changes of the greatest magni-

:ude have taken place there. For my own part, I say frankly
;hat I rejoice greatly iu those changes. I think the prospect

.... _ _
of seeing Germany constituted into one greet nationality,

and at its head a Protestant and progressive Power, holds
out much hope of great advantage to humanity, and espe-
cially to the interests of this country. I have also always
felt a warm sympathy with the cause of Italian independ-
ence, and am very glad indeed to eft that Italy is to be
constituted now as a great nation. (Applause and hisses.)
Holding these opinions, I thought it my duty to obtain
from Lord Stanley an assurance that the principle of non-
intervention would be adhered to by our Government in
regard to those struggles, and that none of those old
Tory sympathies with despotic Powers should entangle us
into war or into diplomatic interference with the changes
taking place. Lord Stanley met us with frankness, and
readily agreed to our request. It would be unfair to him to
say that the pledge was extorted from him.' It was frankly
given, and was entirely satisfactory to myself and to all
Liberals. (Cheers.) It only remains to advert very shore),
to some of your local affairs. As regards Caithness, the
question of the railway is one of paramount importance.
(Cheers and hisses.) I should be wrong if I should take
much credit to myself in this matter, for the indefatigable
exertions of that excellent nobleman, Lord Caithness
(cheers and faint hisses)—have been beyond all praise,
and if you will—as I hope you will—have soon railway
communication to the south, it will be to him the credit
will be due. (Cheers.) At the same time I have done my
best to co-operate with his lordship, and I have not spared
time or trouble, or a little expense, to obtain the requisite
support to carry out the communication to Wick and
Thurso. In regard to other local matters, I have always
had the greatest pleasure to co-operate with your esteemed
member, Mr. Traill—(cheers and slight hisses) —in various
matters relating to fisheries, the Austrian Tariff, the French
Fishery Convention, and the report of the Fishery Com-
missioners. Mr. Traill has been indefatigable in his atten-
tion to your interests, and I don't think he has ever found
reason to complain of me for not doing my best to second
his efforts. (Cheers.) There is one question which in-
terests you a good deal. It is as to the extension of the
principles of the Union Chargeability to Scotland. (Loud
cheers.) That principle is the right one ; and having been
adopted in England it ought to be adopted in Scotland. It
seems to me quite unfair that the landed proprietors either
in England or Scotland should have the power of casting
off the burden of the poor on the towns. (Cheers.) With-
out pledging myself to details, I may say generally that I
would give my support to any measure having for its
object the remedying of that anomaly, as well as to any
measure tending to diminish the expenses of litigation in
connection with the working of the Poor-law—expenses
in which a great amount of the money levied from the
ratepayers, instead of going to the maintenance of the
poor, finds its way into the pockets of the lawyers. (A
laugh.) lam not aware that there is any other topic that
requires me to detain you further at this time. I shall be
happy to give any further explanations to any one who
may desire them. I now conclude by thanking you for
attending here to-night to meet me, and hearing me so
patiently.

Mr. Laing sat down amid loud cheers and a few hisses,
chiefly from a knot of lads in the centre of the hall.

THE CHOLERA.

MANSION HOITSE RELIEF COMMITTEE.
Yesterday, this committee was specially convened
by the Lord Mayor to meet the Bishop of London,
who, as the principal almoner of a large fund col-
lected under his auspices for the relief of the dis-
tress consequent upon the visitation of cholera, had
invited a conference with the Mansion-house autho-
rities upon a matter which they and the committee
of which the Bishop is at the head were supposed to
be equally interested in administering the public
bounty. The Lord Mayor occupied the chair, and
there were present besides Sir Mordaunt Wells,
Mr. John Abel Smith, M.P., Mr. Alderman Cotton,
the Rev. William Rogers, rector of Bishopsgate ;
Mr. W. J. Maxwell, Mr. Charles. Hutton, Mr. R.
B. Wade, Mr. H. W. Ripley, Mr. Richard Hoare,
Mr. Samuel Hoare, Dr. Andrew Clark, physician
to the London Hospital ; and Mr. R. N. Fowler
The Bishop was accompanied by the Hon. Arthur
Kinnaird, M.P., Mr. Tilson, Chairman of the Surrey
Bench of Magistrates, and Mr. Seymour Haden.
The Bishop of London, addressing the meeting,
who bad received him with every mark of respect
and consideration, said an important point had
arisen .in the 'administration of the fund at his
disposal—namely, whether some portion of the
money should be expended for the benefit of con-
valescents. It was a great reason for thankfulness
that the disease was subsiding, and they trusted
that by God's blessing it would continue to sub-
side. In order that be might be in possession of
the feeling of the clergy of his diocess on the sub-
ject of convalescents, he had written to many of
them who had been hard at work in relieving the
distress in the districts where cholera had prevailed.

One or two preliminary questions seemed to sug-
gest themselves. First, of all, it had been asked
whether it was necessary to take any steps at all
with reference to convalescents, or whether, when
a man who had had cholera and was recovering,
on being discharged from an hospital, would
not be able to go about his ordinary work
in a short time. One of the clergy who had in-
terested himself in an hospital at IVapping stated
that by the kindness of the parochial authorities
there the patients had generally remained so long
that they were really cured when they left the insti-
tution, and that in point of fact the hospital might
be supposed to provide for convalescents, as well as
for those actually suffering from the malady. That,
however, appeared to be the feeling of one clergy-
man alone. He gathered rather from a statement
of a gentleman connected with the London Hospital
that when persons recovering from cholera left the
hospital they were not in a condition to return to
their ordinary work, and that it was necessary to
provide against a second attack of the disease. Miss
Marsh had done a-great deal of good in connection
with the London Hospital in taking convalescents
from the institution to a temporary home in the
country. Those who were of opinion that it was ne-
cessary to make some provision for convalescents on
leaving the hospital seemed to be divided in opinion
as to whether or not it was better that that should
be done by individual efforts--that was, by persons
who were interested in convalescents paying their
expenses and sending them down to the country to
friends, or finding here and there a cottage in which
they could be received, or whether there should be
some combined efforts to provide a large building in
which some considerable number of those convales-
cents could be accommodated. He thought he was
right in stating that those who advocated the latter
course were influenced, not so much by the exigency
of the present emergency, as by a feeling that on
similar visitations, whether of cholera, typhus fever,
or any other of the scourges so frequent in London,
a great want was always experienced of the means
of providing for convalescents. The existing accom-
modation was by no means adequate to meet the
wants of the more destitute parts of London in that
respect. He found there was a strong opinion among
the clergy that it would be a great blessing if a large
hospital could be establishedfor the reception of con-
valescents from cholera in the first instance, and
afterwards generally for convalescents from other
diseases. He had only to add that he and the gentle-
men with whom he acted wished to be guided by
the best possible advice. Unlike the Mansion-house
Committee, they had not opportunities of consulting
medical wen, or of eliciting the opinions of the
local authorities who came there from day to day.
One plan had suggested itself to
his mind as per-
haps the most practical. Many benevolent indivi-
duals were interesting themselves in this matter.
One lady, in particular, Miss Marsh, had secured
accommodation for a limited number of convales-
cents at Walton-on-Thames and other places.
Another lady, Mrs. Gladstone, had taken a house
at Clapton, where convalescents had been already
and were still being received. Other movements
of the same kind were on foot, and perhaps the
wisest course for the committee to adopt would be,
without troubling themselves about establishing any
institution for the express purpose, but allowing
the zeal of those benevolent persons to take its
course, to grant a certain sum of money in propor-
tion to the number of convalescent, cases that
might be brought forward. (Hear, hear.) But all
those were points upon which his committee would
be glad to have the advice of that of the Mansion-
.house.

The LORD MAYOR, after expressing on behalf of
the committee their gratification at being afforded
an opportunity of conferring with the right rev.
prelate, said, with respect to the desirability of
establishing a permanent convalescent hospital, not
with reference to the present occasion alone, but
for ordinary times, he thought they would be all
agreed. Many of the hospitals in London had
very large revenues. The question of establishing
an hospital for convalescents had often been dis-
cussed by the governors of St. Bartholomew's Hos-
pital, and the treasurer of that institution had pre-

pared a scheme. His own opinion was that what
the poor people recovering from cholera mainly
wanted was good food, and that in providing them
with that the Mansion-house Committee, or that of
the right rev. prelate, would spend the funds at
their disposal more wisely than in establishing a
permanent convalescent hospital. Their object
ought to be to do as large an amount of immediate
good as possible, without reference to the future.
(Hear.) There was now comparatively little
cholera in the districts which the disease had at-
tacked, but there was a great deal of misery and
destitution, and the one was consequent upon the
other.

Sir M. WELLs suggested that the local corn

mittens established in connexion with that of the
Mansion-house would be practically most compe-
tent to deal with the matter, as knowing the wants
of the poor people in their various districts. Already,
he said, through the many grants made by this
committee, the local authorities were doing a great
deal for people recovering from cholera by the dis-
tribution of arrowroot, beef tea, and port wine, and
the convalescents might be safely left to their care.

Mr. WADE held that it was too late in the day to
start a large convalescent hospital for this special
occasion, to say nothing of the repugnance which,
in reference to a disease such as cholera, would be
felt in any suburban district in which the attempt
might be made. For convalescents country air was
essential, and there was the greatest need of a gene-
ral permanent institution for convalescents. The
Home of the Metropolitan Convalescent Institution
at Walton had at present 235 inmates, and 60 con-
valescents in London were waiting for admission to
it. In the meantime it would be desirable, as the
next best thing, for the committee to encourage by
liberal grants Mrs. Gladstone and other ladies who
were engaged in providing temporary homes for poor
people recovering from the epidemic.
Dr. A. CLARK, physician to the London Hospital,
replying to a question by the Bishop of London as
to whether it was desirable to have any special pro-
vision for convalescents after leaving the hospital,
or whether the hospital would do all that was re-
quired for cholera patients, said there was no disease,
except scarlatina, perhaps, which sowed more of the
seeds of functional disease than cholera. He con-
fined himself entirely to the medical aspect of the
question, Though cholera patients, when convales-
cent, seemed to recover rapidly, there was still an
immediate risk of the disease, with even the appear-
ance of health. Convalescence from cholera, speak-
ing from a professional experience of 12 years, was
always tardy, and often very dangerous. Fresh air,
good food, and especially a change from the condi-
tions under which the disease was contracted, were
essential to recovery.

Eventually, on the motion of Dr. Clark, a reso-
lution was passed in effect that it was expedient for
the Mansion-house Committee to make somespecial
provision for the temporary relief of convalescents
from cholera. It was also resolved in substance, on
the motion of Sir Mordaunt Wells, seconded by Mr.
Tilson, that it was desirable that the Mansion-house
and the Bishop of London's Committees should co-
operate with the local committees and clergy in car-
rying out the object proposed.
Tlae Bishop of LONDON returned thanks in his own
name and that of his committee for the kindness
with which they had been received, adding that the
resolutions at which the Mansion-house Committee
had arrived embodied very much his own conclu-
sions on the matter.

Yesterday the Lord Mayor received, through the
editor of the Times, a check for £l3 135., as a dona-
tion from a small congregation of English residents
at Cronstadt. It was accompanied by the sub-
joined letter :

"Parsonage, Croustadt, Monday, Aug. 8 (20).
"My dear Sir,—Y6u have so kindly on several occasions
acted as our almoner, that I venture to trouble you with
the trifling sum which I collected after a sermon on behalf
of ' the poor sufferers by the cholera in the East-end of
London.' I cannot select any particular district, but you
will know at once where the greatest need exists. Perhaps
there may be a fund forming for the orphans? However,
such could well stander over while so many pressing calls
are being made for bodily relief, nourishment, clothing,
and nursing. Thanking you by anticipation for your kind-
ness, allow me to remain—Yours faithfully and obliged,

" H. MISWINEY, M.A.,
" Chaplain at Cronstadt to the Russia Company."
Before separating yesterday the committee made
a grant of £2OO towards the funds of the temporary
hospital for cholera patients, in Commercial-

street, Whitechapel ; another of £5O to the local
committee of St. Mary and St. Michael, Commer-
cial-road East; and a third of £5O to a local com-

mittee of ladies in the neighbourhood of Victoria
Park, who are actively engaged in relieving the dis-
tress there from the epidemic.
We are requested to intimate, for the information
of the local committees, that the Mansion-house
Committee will not sit to-morrow, and that on and
after Monday they will be prepared to entertain
applications from the local authorities for assistance
for convalescents.

The following is the return of deaths from cholera
and diarrhoea in London registered on Wednesday,
Aug. 29 :

Cholera.

West districts .
North distric s .
Central districts.

Diarrhcea.
•.• 3

••• .....
... 1

East districts
South districts

... -
... 22
... G

Total

... 29

... 6

... 22

Wreck on the Goodwin Sands.

RAMSGATE, Thursday.
During the whole of last night and the early part
of this morning a tremendous gale of wind and rain
from the W.N.W. swept this portion of the coast,
compelling a quantity of shipping to seek refuge in
the harbour. About 9 o'clock this morning a large
vessel and a steam-tug were discovered lying on the
Goodwin Sands in a very critical position. The
new lifeboat, the Bradford, was speedily manned
and towed to the wrecked vessels, and it was then
found that one was the North, a full-rigged mer-
chant vessel, of Liverpool, of about 1,000 tons
burthen, bound from Africa to London, laden with
a cargo of rice. The other was the steam-tug
Wellington, of London. Both vessels were on the
southern end of the Goodwin Sands, near to the
South Sandhead lightship.

The Ramsgate lifeboat found both vessels de-
serted by their crews. The Deal lifeboat, which was
already at the wreck, informed the men of the Rams-
gate boat that both vessels got on the sands about
one o'clock that morning, and that fifteen of the
crew had got into one of their own boats and were
landed safely at Deal. The remainder of the crew,
sixteen in number, got into another boat ; but the
sea being so rough, they soon parted from the first
boat, and had not been heard of since. The Rams-
gate boat stayed at the wreck some hours, doing
her best to save the North, but all to no purpose,
for she speedily broke her back and became a total
wreck. The steam-tug also sank. The names of
the missing portion of the crew have not transpired.
A schooner was also seen on the Goodwin Sands
just previous to the lifeboat starting, but she was
soon lost sight of, and it is believed that she
righted herself and pursued her voyage.

DOVER, Thursday Night.
At two o'clock this morning the ship North,
Captain Brown, of Liverpool, laden with rice; from
Queenstown to Bremen, ran on the Goodwin in a
heavy gale of wind, and became a total wreck. The
captain and fifteen of the crew were saved in their
own boat, were picked up, and broughtto the Dover
Sailors' Home. The crew consisted of thirty men.
The remaining fourteen were landed at Deal. The
men who arrived at the Dover Home were able to
save but a very small portion of their clothing.
.Many of them were quite destitute. The fourteen
men landed at Deal were on their way to-night to
the Dover Home.

[ ADVERTISEMENT. I—Holloway's Ointment and Pills.—
Counsel and Help. —When diarrhoea, dysentery, or cholera
prevail in any district, it behoves every one to be watch-
ful and to have at hand the means of checking those symp-
toms of general uneasiness, nausea, and vertigo, which
foretell the threatening malady. This well-known oint-
ment, rubbed diligently and repeatedly upon the pit of the
stomach and over the abdomen, exercises the most power-
ful and salutary effects in arresting the morbid indications
of the coming evil, and, aided by appropriate doses of the
pills, will secure safety to their employers, whilst the heel-
less are falling thickly around them. Every person at this
critical time should subdue the first traces of disordered
action by Holloway's regulating and purifying prepara-
tions.