The Sun.
London, England, 1835-10-21 00:00:00

TILE SUN, LONDOir, W.I4III)NINDA.Y, OCTOBER 2l, 1835.

WIG-AN.

PUBLIC DINNER to R. POTTER, ESQ

that Sir Robert Peel had nothing to -do with the abrupt
dismissal of the Melbourne Ministry; but by accepting office
with a set of colleagues who with few, if any exceptions,
had been et all times and seasons, and up to the very period

of taking office, the constant and uncompromising opponents
of all Reform, and of liberal opinions, he became account-
able for that Act.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet
and his colleagues had been the unceasing opponents of the
glorious Reform Bill ; and to the most liberal of Earl
Grey's measures they one and all were opposed. The
Right Hon. Baronet professed himself willing to remove
the disabilities under which the Dissenters labour ; but how
could that body have any confidence in a set of men who
so violently opposed the Bill which was brought into, and
passed, the House of Commons in 1834, for admitting Dis-
senters to the two Universities of Oxford and Cambridge,
and who, so late as the 26th of March last, opposed Mr.
Tooke's motion for an address to his Majesty to grant his
Royal Charter of Incorporation to the London University ?
so that they not only refused to admit Dissenters to the
Universities, but opposed their having one of their own
which should confer Degrees. The Right lion. Baronet
also professed his readiness to relieve the Dissenters from
the payment of Church rates--but this was to be accom-
plished by taking from the Consolidates Fund 250,000/.,
to keep in repair what was called the fabric of the Church.
Now this was just one of the objectionable measures sub-
mitted by Lord Althorp, which he had been induced to
abandon, on being assured it would be not only unsatisfac-
tory to the Dissenters, but to the country at large. The
Church has funds sufficient to keep the fabric of its Churches
in repair ; and I contend it is a gross violation of the rights
of Dissenters to compel them to contribute to the main-
tenance and splendour of an Establishment from which
they dissent, and .consequently receive no benefit. The
friends of Sir Robert Peel took great credit for the
" Dissenters' Marriage Bill,' but I feel convinced it would
not have satisfied that body, inasmuch as a broad distinction
was made betwixt Churchmen and Dissenters, and fees
were still to have been paid to the Clergy of the Estab-
lished Church. I have entered into this long detail, which
I fear may be thought tedious—(No, no), as a justification
of the reasons which actuated me in joining the opposition
to the late Ministry, and from the manner they have been
received, I think I may conclude that they have been satis-
factory to you.—(Cheers.) It was not until towards the
end of May that the Melbourne Ministry were all seated,
after which they lost no time in introducing several Bills of
great importance. Amongst them may be named, particu-
larly, the " Corporation Bill for England and Wales ;" also,
a similar one for Ireland—the Church' of Ireland Bill,
which provided "for the better regulation of Ecclesiastical
Revenues, and the promotion of, religious and moral in-
struction in Ireland." The Tories contended there was no
surplus for the latter purpose, but surely the promotion of
religious and moral instruction ought to have been one of
the purposes of an Established Church.—(Cheers.) Let
us, however, for ore moment see whether there ought not
to be a surplus. By the late authorised census, it appears
that the population of Iceland is 7,943,940 souls—of this
number there are 852,064 only, as belonging to the Estab-
lished Church ; the Roman Catholic pupulation is
6,427,712 ; the remainder composed of Presbyterians, and
other Dissenters. Lord Morpeth estimates the gross re-
venues of the Irish Church at 807,5331. per annum, and
Lord John Russell, in his celebrated speech on this ques-
tion, on the 30th ?larch last, makes the amount very nearly
the same. I put it, then, to every one present, whether,
with so small a population belonging to the Establishment,
and so large a revenue, there ought not to be a sufficient
surplus fund to be applied to the moral and religious in-
struction of the people in Ireland ?—(Applause.) But this
is not all, for, by a Pamphlet lately published by the Re-
form Association, and the amounts are taken from official
documents, it appears that—
There has been paid to the Irish Church, since
the Union, grants of money for the building of
churches and glebe-houses, the enormous sum
of
There have been loans for glebes and churches,
Which loans in many instances have not been re-

paid, amounting to 324,623
There have been grants for the purposes of Pro-
testant education, during the same period, pur-
poses far which the revenues of the Church were
indisputably liable, had the provision of the law
respecting tenths and first-fruits been duly en-
forced, to the amount of
In 1833, one million of the public money was voted
for arrears of Irish tithes, which I opposed in all
its stages. There has been already advanced of
this sum which I believe will never be repaid 640,000

£3,275,250
This large amount has been paid, since the Union, for
the support of the Protestant Church in Ireland, that Es-
tablishment possessing, during the whole of that period, in
lands, glebes, and tithes, an independent, and with the
exception of the last five years, a well paid income of
807,5331.—(Hear, hear,) Then there is the cost of main-
taining the Church Establishment in Ireland. I believe I
ao) not over-stating, when I say that, ioeludieg the police,
there is constantly an armed force of 30,000, the expense to
the country of which cannot be much less than one million
sterling per annum. Well might Mr. Slid exclaim—
" That it had cost England millions of her treasure, and
Ireland torrents of her blood, to maintain the un-
happy and unholy system !"—(Great and loud applause.)
A friend of mine, the Hon. Member for Liverpool (Mr.
Ewart), moved for a return of all Bills which have passed
the House of Commons, and which have not been returned
from the other House of Parliament, during the last three
sessions. I will not trouble you with any remarks on the
sessions of 1833 and 4, only to observe, that durir, those
two years, Bills wore passed to punish the gross bribery and
corruption which had been practised at Liverpool, War-
wick, Stafford, Hertford, and Carrickfergtis ; all of which
the Lords refuied to sanction—thus rendering themselves
liable to the charge of being aiders and abettors of bribery
and corruption. During the late session, the Upper House
seemed determined to reject every liberal measure, particu-
larly such as had received the support of Mr. O'Connell.
Amongst the Bills rejected were some of great importance
to Ireland; Ist, the Church Bill, Which I have already adverted
to ; 2d, the Irish Corporation• Bill. Corporations in that
country stood in need of amendment fully as much as those
in England and Wales ; they are chiefly in the hands of
violent Orangemen, and tend greatly to keep Ireland in
that state of excitement it unhappily has long endured ; 3d,
the Bill to place the constabulary force in Ireland, which
amounts to 7,000, on a better system ; these appointments
are conferred by the Magistrates, and aro too frequently
composed of violent party-men. The object of this Bill
was to regulate this immense force, and to transfer the
appointing to the Lord LieutenaV. 4th, the Dublin
Police Bill. This was intended to reduce the expendi-
ture, and put the Police of that city into a more
efficient shape. There, again, every person who acted
as a policeman was reptired to swear that be did not
belong to the Orange Society. The legislative interference
of Parliament in this matter was imperatively called for, as
nearly 50,0001 per annum is taken from the public purse to
support this force. The sth was a Bill "to regulate the
Registration of voters in Ireland," which at present is in a
most irregular and unsatisfactory state. The 6th, " the -Ro-
man Catholic Marriage Bill." At present marriages con-
tracted between Protestant and Catholic in Ireland, are
illegal. instances have occurred there of women with large
families having been deserted by the men to whom they
supposed they were lawfully married, and their offsprings
bastardized ; so that poor innocent children were left to
suffer for the guilt of their parents.—(Hear, hear.) It is
most lamentable to think that Ireland should have little or
no redress of the miseries she is constantly oppressed with ;
and how every good and well-propounded measure brought
into the Commons to tranquilize that country, should be
treated In the way it has been. Ireland is a component
part of the Empire, and she has a right to equal laws, and
to the full benefit of the British Constitution. There was
a Bill, which I think you will all agree with me, ought to
have been sanctioned by the Lords, I mean the " Prisoners
Counsel Bill." As the law at present stands, if a person
is put upon his trial for any offence which subjects him to
be deprived of his liberty, or banished from his native coun-
try, or to suffer death, he is not allowed the benefit of
Counsel to speak for him, But where does the justice
in such a case consist ? Why should any person so
accused, standing at the Bar of Justice, and unable
to defend himself, be refused that assistance ? But
such is the anomaly of our law, that if a civil
case, of the most trifling and petty kind, comes before a
Court, an array of lawyers is freely allowed on both sides.—
( Hear, hear,) I might mention several other Bills, included
in this list; but I have said, I think, enough to convince you
that the Session which has lately terminated, might have
been productive of much greater good, had the Upper
House co-operated with the House of Commons.—( Cheers.)
Some few acts have passed, which I trust will be beneficial
to the community. The Corporation Bill, although de-
prived of some of its valuable enactments, is nevertheless
one which will confer, I trust, great benefit on the country.
—( Applause.) The Bill, as it now stands, overturns all
the self-elected Corporations, and transfers the management
of the affairs of Corporate Towns to Councillors elected
by the inhabitant householders. Henceforth it will be the
fault of the illliahitanti of a Borough, if they have not their
affairs properly and satisfactorily managed. In this town,
for instance, before the passing of the Bill, for an inhabi-
tant to be entitled to take any share in the government of
the Borough, he had first to be elected ; but now, if a house-
holder, he has a right to vote. I hope you will excuse my
giving you a word or two of advice mt this anbject. I
would most earnestly 7991111301.4 YOO to unite with your
elect 4 aqd proper persons for Coun-
-1.C11141:11u ';'ny* :19'1 sale
high
and the low--r-the rich and the poor—
' "siteuld join together, to effect this most important and
' desirable end. Take care to have a majority of literal
; and then you may expect the affairs of your

to xn to be well and satisfactorily managA.—(Loud ap-
plause.) The Bill is not yet a perfect measure, but had IA e
passed it in the state when first sent back from the Lords,
we should justly have lost the confidence of the coun-
try.—( Hear, hear.) Ministers are pledged to amend
the Bill ; and I feel confident they will keep their word
to the House of Commons and the country.—(Cheers.)
There have been two more Acts passed this session which
I will just mention : one is, that in future all polls in the
election of Members of Parliament for cities and boroughs,
shall terminate in one day, instead of two. I think this
will check a good deal of that bribery which has hitheito
taken place.—( Cheers.) Another is, the Act "to 'Consoli-
date and Amend the Laws relative to Highways," which con-
tains a clause I have long and anxiously supported (for the
Bill has been before Parliament ever since I have had the
honour of a seat), giving the security and intervention to a
Jury, before the public can be deprived of any highway.—
( Hear.) This will, I confidently hope, put a stop to nume-
rous aggressions which have been made upon public rights,
by taking away necessary footpaths and other public roads.
—(Applause.) Although the Acts of the past Session are
few that arc beneficial, the seeds have been sown of r-
more. It has been a Session of no ordinary :.mtvest, and
eventful in the annals of Parliament. 't(:)oice to think
that his Majesty entert,2ins a kindlier feeling towards his
faithful Ministers, and I trust that happy period is at hand
when the King and his Ministers will cordially co-operate
Ivith the House of Commons.—( Applause.) It will then
be impossible for the Upper House to set itself in array
against their united efforts for the public good. When once
the Government is settled, I trust the House of Commons
will take into its serious consideration the present enor-
mous expenditure of the country, with a view to reduce it.
—(Hear, hear.) I have voted for every reduction which
my friend Mr, Uwe, and other Members, have proposed ;
and I need hardly inform you that so long as I have the
honour of a seat in Parliament, I shall be at my post ready
to support every measure which is calculated to promote
the public good.—(lmmense cheering.)
[At this period of the Hon. Member's speech our Re-
porter was obliged to send off his Report.]

•

Phippt, the ancestor of Earl Mulgrave suffered per-
' seentom " for justice sake," for his kindly dispo-
sition towards the suffering Catholics of Ireland.
He was Chancellor here in the reign of Queen
Anne, when some of the severest penal laws were
being enforced against that.body ; and incurred the
displeasure of the faction of that day, by his en-
deavours to mitigate, as far
.1;71 he
'dethslc6en rigours
Of that extraordinary code,
answers to the inanY addresses that have been pre-
sented to him since his arrival here, may be found the
expression of an equal firmness and dettbe.„,,rsmeinaaitliso‘rvtert::
administer impartial justice. Indeed
taken collectively, exhibit something tx,vr the • t
ory
of Irish Viceroyalty, and contaj;,, 1 aps
nr , the most
authentic pledges,
ously yet eloquently ex-
pressed, of a new of things for Ireland. His
Excellency to Wears an Irish " Baron of New
Ross," 'or the County of Wexford. In the address
!presented to him some time ago, by the inhabitants of
that borough, they say this town " is associated with
your title as an Irish Peer ; and in its best and proudest
days was the birth-place, residence and property of
your noble Irish ancestors." In the reply is the fol-
lowing confirmation of that statement :—" I have re-
c.!ived this address with peculiar interest, from those
circumstances of family connection with the place of
which it is most gratifying, thus to learn, that you en-
tertain a lively recollection." So that it would appear
that he is more identified with this country than most
of his predecessors ; and it is unnecessary to say how
much this circumstance alone must promote the best
hopes of a confiding and warm-hearted people. Again,
the Earl of Carlisle, grandfather, I believe, to Lord Mor-
peth, was Lord Lieutenant here during the interesting
period that preceded the glorious parliamentary indepen-
dence of 1782. He began his Viceroyalty in 1780,
encouraged several legislative measures of great utility
brought forward in the Irish Parliament by Mr. Gar-
diner, afterwards Lord I‘lountjoy, and was recalled in
1782. That he had favoured the steps taken here
towards our independence, is proved by the support
which he afterwards gave in his place in the Upper
House in England to the confirmation of that glorious
measure. Add to this Lord IVlorpeth's own public
services, his early manifestations of a liberal and en-
lightened policy, his visit to Ireland in 1828, on the
eve of emancipaticn, and the immediate effects of that
visit in reconciling and bringing together the most
respectable and influential of Irishmen for the purpose
of forwarding that measure—(See 'Vise's History of
the Association)—the annals of the Irish Govern-
ment since the conquest by Henry the Second, do not
furnish any instance of so many combinations of cir-
cumstances favourable to the grown% prospects of Ire-
land, as are to be found at the present juncture. The
people feel and understand this state of things, seem
determined 'to uphold it, and are actually reforming
themselves, in order to become entitled to all the bless-
ings of a real and unrestricted reformation. The evils
apprehended from the rejection of the Tithe Bill by the
" Lords," are likely to be in some degree averted this
winter, by the judicious determination adopted by
the Government, not to afford military aid for the col-
lection of tithes, except in cases where the peace of the
country is to be preserved. Such is the present aspect
of affairs here ; the Government is strong ; and it
only remains to be seen, will they continue to deserve
the confidence reposed in them. It is now generally
known that Mr. Hudson is appointed Deputy Re-
membrancer ; Mr. Howly promoted front the King's
County to Tipperary ; and Mr. Lisle appointed As-
sistant Barrister for the King's County, in the room
of Mr. !lowly. These men are all staunch Whigs and
good lawyers; their promotion, therefore, will st-,.engthen
the hands of Government in addition to tlic circum
stances already mentioned.