The Sun.
London, England, 1859-08-06 00:00:00

gestion, although in some matters of detail it was not com-
pletely in accordance with the recommendation of the come
missioners. The bill proposed that a number not exceeding
30,000 men should be invitedto enrol themselves for a period
of five years; that for that term each man should receive £5
per annum • that they should be called out for training for 28
days in the year, and that during that time they should
receive non-continuous service pay according to the rating
they might hold. It was also proposed that at the expira-
tion of the five years these men should have the option of
retiring from the force, or of re-enrolling themselves for
a farther period of five years. If the country should remain
at peace they would each during their five years service
have received a sum of £25 in addition to the month's pay
during their training, and if they were enrolled at the ex-
piration of 10 years' service they would be entitled to pen-
sions. Supposing, however, that this country should un-
hapily be involved in war, it was proposed that by Royal
proclamation these men should be at once-called upon to
enter for active service in the fleet in any part of the world.
There would be a claim upon their services for three years
certain, and if at the end of that period war did not cease
power was given by the bill to require them to serve for
two years more, they receiving at the same time the pay of
continuous service men, which would be 2d. a-day addi-
tional for the last two years, whatever rating
.they might
hold. In the event of war, therefore, the services of these
men could be counted upon for a period of five years. There
were some details with regard to this subject, especially re-
specting pensions, which it would be difficult to embody in
a legislative measure. The Board of Admiralty had consi-
dered very carefully the proposals of the Royal commission
as to the deferred pensions at the age of 50 or 55 and it was
thought that under some circumstances it would be a hard-
ship upon seamen if the Government were restricted to theoc
power of granting pensions at those ages. Cases might
cur in which seamen had served faithfully during war, and
had suffered in health, and, although not eligible for pen-
sions in consequence of wounds, the grant of pensions might
be perfectly justifiable. On the other hand, supposing the
country to remain at peace, it became a question whether a
man who had entered the Duce at the age of 20 years, and
who had served for 10 years, should be entitled to claim the
same amount of pension as if he had been engaged in active
service before an enemy. It was thought, therefore, that it
would be a matter of great difficulty. to deal with the ques-
of Parliament, and it was consi-
flea of pensions by an act
dared that the better course would be to leave these details
to the regulation of the Admiralty, if the house gave its as-
sent to this bill. (Hear.) He was bound to tell the house
that this was only an experiment. (Hear, hear.) They
had no experience to guide them on the subject, and there-
fore he could not tell the house that he felt confidence that
the plan would be perfectly successful. He hoped, how-
ever, that it would be successful, and he was sure that was
the feeling of the House of Commons and of the public.
(Hear, hear.) His opinion was that the best mode of at-
taining a successful result would be not to tie the hands of
the Admiralty by Acts of Parliament ; but he trusted that
by communication with the Board of Trade, with the ship-
ping masters, and with that efficient officer, Captain Brown,
the Registrar-General of Seamen, and other persons con-
nected with the merchant service, they might be enabled to
frame regulations which would induce our merchan He
sea-
men to flock to the Royal navy. (Hear, hear.)_ e be-
lieved that men-of-war's men did not thoroughly under-
stand the merchant sailors. (Hear, hear.) There had been
a misunderstanding in the navy with regard to the merchant
service ; and he knew that merchant seamen had said they
would be delighted to serve in the navy if they were satis-
fied they would be treated in the manner to which they
thought themselves entitled. He could only say that the
Board of Admiralty desired most ardently to effect a good
understanding between the merchant service and the Royal
navy, and to establish between the two services feelings of
mutual respect and affection. (Hear, hear.) This bill was
the first endeavour to establish such a good understanding,
and if the attempt proved successful they would induce a
great number of merchant seamen, during their period of
28 day's training, to see ships of war for themselves ; they
would find that the men were kindly treated, that they re-
ceived good food and good pay, and the result would pro-
bably be that many of them would be induced to join her
Majesty's service. If this result could be attained, instead
of endeavouring to retain men in the Royal navy by mea -
sures of harshness and severity, the greatest punish-
ment that could be held out in terrorem would be dis-
missal from the service. (Hear, hear.) If the house
assented to this bill he believed such regulations
might be framed as would induce merchant sea-
men to come forward and to form an invaluable reserve for
the royal navy. In the February number of the Revue des
Deux Mendes there was a passage in an article attributed to
a distinguished naval officer, the Prince de Joinville, to
which he might call the attention of the house. The writer
said :—" On a vu quelquefois le genie d'un homme impro-
viser une armee , jamais une marine." That statement was
true. A navy could not be extemporised. (Hear.) It was ne-
cessary to have trained seamen, and the state of naval pre-
paration maintained by the French nation enabled them to
afford to disarm at once, because they knew perfectly well
that within a week theirfleet could be manned. He believed
that the declared intention of the Emperor of the French to
disarm was faithful and honest, but the French, after dis-
arming, could arm again in a week with the utmost facility.
He thought, therefore, that this great maritime country
ought to be in a position to disarm ; but if they allowed
their seamen to leave the naval service, as was the case at
present, they had no reserves. If, however, they had a valu-
able reserve of seamen, they could afford to imitate the ex-
ample of other nations ; and he hoped that if the house as-
sented to this bill they would be placed in that position.
Mr. LINDSAY said the problem the Royal Commission
on the navy were required to solve was, to obtain a reserve
at the smallest cost to the country, and with the least dis
turbance to its industrial resources. He had the misfortune
to iffer with his colleagues on the commission, and he
thought they had not solved that problem. According to
the estimate of the commissioners, the cost of the plan
they recommended would be £598,111, but he believed that
large as that amount was, it would not suffice to carry
out their recommendations. The cost of a coastguard
force of 2,000 men was £116,000 a year, while the estimate
for 4,000 men as a reserve for the home force was only
£132,000 ; but he thought it would be nearer the mark if
it were calculated at £200,000. In 1852 a committee
of naval officers inquired into the best mode of
manning the navy, and they recommended increased
pay in one shape or other, which entailed upon the con-
trary an expenditure of £150,000; yet in 1804, two years
afterwards, the hon. and gallant member for Southwark
(Sir C. Napier) found great difficulty in manning theßaltic
fleet. It appeared, therefore, that this extra expenditure
did not enable the country to obtain what it required. He
found that the Admiralty were now paying about £lOO,OOO
a year to seamen in the navy for provisions which were not
consumed ' • but why was not care taken that provisions of
inferior quality were not supplied to the men ? He believed
that the extra drill enforced in some of her Majesty's ships,
and the provisions of the Articles of War, which imposed
the penalty of death for nearly every offence enumerated in
them, tended to deter merchant seamen from entering the
Royal navy. It was now proposed to form a reserve of
seamen to be available in case of emergency, but at this
moment they had in the Royal navy a staff of effective offi-
cers barely sufficient for a peace establishment. He would
recommend, therefore, that when they were inviting sea-
men of the merchant service to join their reserve force they
should extend the same invitation to the officers of that ser-
vice. (Hear.) Some slight distinguishing mark—some
badge to show that they were officers of the reserve—which
would give them a better position in society, especially
abroad, would have a far greater effect than any pecuniary
inducement in leading a number of the finest young seamen
to be found in this country to enter the navy in that capa-
city. Independently of the services which these young men
would be able to render as seamen, he believed they would
be found most valuable as recruiting officers for the navy
among the body of seamen with whom they were connected.
(Hear.) He would recommend, therefore, that this bill
should not be now pressed, but that the whole subject
should be reconsidered by the Admiralty; and that before
an attempt was made to form a reserve force of seamen
the Articles of War should be altered, excessive and
unnecessary drill should be abolished, flogging should
either be altogether abandoned, or such a punish-
ment should only be inflicted by sentence of court-
martial, and along with the reserve of merchant seamen the
officers of the merchant service should also be invited to
enter that force.
Sir C. NAPIER gave the Admiralty credit for
being now sincere in their desire to adopt necessary
steps with reference to the Royal Navy, and
they were going to work in earnest. He considered that
corporal punishment should still be retained in the service,
and he believed that nine out of ten of those acquainted
with the subject would say, that without such punishment
it would be impossible to maintain discipline. He consi-
dered, however, that there might be some alterations in-
troduced which would be of great benefit, and which would
render the condition of the men in the Royal Navy more
comfortable, and the service more attractive. He ob-
jected to the clause in the bill by which it was provided
that at the expiration of ten years the reserve volunteer
corps should receive a pension even in time of peace, be-
cause it was not equitable to place this force on the same
footing as those engaged during war.
Sir F. BARING said the great difficulty was that in a
case of emergency and war they had to go into a limited
market for seamen. Without taking proper measures they
never would be able to find men enough in a case of emer-
gency. He was glad to find the system of impressment be-
coming more unpopular amongt naval officers than was
formerly the case. There might be extraordinary cases in
which all the laws of political economy, as well as of politi •
cal justice, might be suspended, but as an ordinary means
of filling the navy the system of impressment was abandoned.
So far from being a good mode of getting men, it rather
tended to drive them away to foreign countries, and to nar-
row the market. Without concurring in the adage that the
best way to preserve peace was to be prepared for war, he had
no doubt whatever that the best mode of preserving pe tee
was to have a good naval reserve. (Hear, hear.) He could
assure them that if persons who had filled the situation he
once held were sure that the country had a good naval re-
serve it would enable first lords of the Admiralty to sleep in
peace,:which was not always the case. It was impossible to
say whether the reserve would be ready when a war broke
out. That could only be determined by the breaking out of
war
itself. However, he thought the experiment would be
successful. He rejoiced that the scheme was not coupledwith
that of the naval schools. It was proposed to increase the
coast guards, and the marines.
ardoswashtehseupgrgoetesteetidetnhaotfththeye
should have as many coast
• Customs required, but letadtCatrinnereot fancyt they had a good
naval force because they h
should say that increase of corrtt guards. In
the same manner he
not. to poach
- on the army for the purpose of increasingytl?eligr marines. With
regard to the peace establishment there was no difficulty.
whenwas a case of emergency
The difficultyarose. It was
pposed that the system of continuance service would enable
them to man the ships more readily than heretofore. But he
found that the late Admiralty Board had recourse to a high
in time of peace. That did not show that th
bounty
for there
entinuance service system had been.nverysuccesaful. He was
epmking of manning the ships time of peace;
ship • •0
1111103111.
was no difficulty in manning a when in commission.
How act with regard to the men 9
How did the continuance
The hi gentleman op? te and the hon. and gallant ge tl
man spoke in favour of bringing the merchant service and
service into closer and more friendly contact. But the
effect mce e the continuance servi was to kee the two services
more di stint than before. (Hear.) The return of able sea-
men. right
- men she wed that there were more ordinary seamen than able
seamen a mongst the continuance service
showthat more
hon. gentleman quoted Sir R. Bromley to
cmtinuarute service men deserted than others. Howdid the
system work in time of war ? Did they want the fleet for
peace or war ? That seemed a simple question, t a great
deal lay um!, er it. Under the old system the men had a turn
• in naval sere ice and in the merchant service. But under the
present systel m the result was, that the naval service was
very much co refined to continuance service men,
whilst in
the merchant service there would be no men wha had been
in the naval ge 'rvice. The French system had been much
praised, but oth ,ers did not draw the same conclusion as he
did from it. Ti to French system drew all the sailors of the
French marine into the fleet for three years, after which
they were sent , back. But that was the very opposite of
the continuance , Service system. (Hear, hear.) Prussia
acted in the same canner with regard to the training of her
soldiers. He thous ;ht they ought to act in the same way
with regard to theft navy. (Hear, hear.) But the continu-
ance system was tb I very opposite. (Hear.) He thought it