The Sun.
London, England, 1832-07-24 00:00:00

SUMMER ASSIZES.

WESTERN CIRCUIT, SALISBURY, JULY 22.
The assizes for the county of Wilts commenced
yesterday. Mr. Justice TAUNTON arrived in this
city about five o'clock, and proceeded to the Rill,
where he opened the Commission. Mr. Justice
PATTESON remained at Winchester with his family,
but I am happy to say Miss Patteson was yester-
day so mach better that Lady Patteson sa! on the
bench during great part of the day.. This morning
Mr. Justice TAUNTON attended divine service at
the Cathedral. The serroon was- preached by the
Sheriff's chaplain, the Rev. M.. Fowle, and his d►s-
course, a very silly one, was chiefly directed against
the Press.

It is rumoured thaVin the course of next
month an encampment will be formed in one of the Perks,
for the purpose of his MAJESTY'S presenting a standard to
the Blues, and also with the view of affording the troops a
little recreation. It is expected that the encampment will
continue for three or four days.
Mr. GOODWIN, the Warder of Sheerness
Dock-yard, died of the cholera, after a few hours' illness,
last week. He was followed in less than twenty hours
by his wife, of the same disease. They were interred in
the same grave.

ILFRACOMBE,—The Dove, which sailed from
this port a few weeks since, with emigrants for America,
was brought-to by a pirate who hoisted French colours,
but spoke in English. The pirate demanded medicine,
coals, and other articles, which the Commander (Captain
HUXTABLI) refused to comply with, and drew his men up
on the quarter-deck to present an attitude. The robber
did not much relish their appearance, but fired a gun,
which was promptly returned, and he sheered off, as he
appeared apprehensive.-- Western Times.
A party of Custom-house officers, accompanied
by the Commissary of Police of the Faubourg St. Antoine,
having gained information that a band of smugglers were
lodged in a house in the Rue Menilmontant, a few days
since went to make a search, and found a subterranean
passage upwards of 100 yards long and more than half-a-
yard wide, cut 30 feet through a solid rock, and commu-
nicating with a field beyond the walls of the town, by
which they introduced contraband goods into the city.—
Galignani's Messenger.
The collectors of assessed taxes and poor.rates
bad a glorious time last week. In many places they sat
up until twelve o'clock on Friday night, for the purpose
of receiving the money, and thus qualifying the electors
to vote. The taxes and rates paid at Manchester in the
course of the week are said to exceed 10,0001. The num-
ber of voters in the township of Manchester, it is calcu-
lated, will be about 6,000, and in the whole borough
8,500. In the borough of Salford the number will, pro-
bably, not exceed 1,500.

. _
lii the parish of Lauteglos, by Fowey, the
following singular notice is ptinte I on a board affixed
over the porch :—" Ten Pounds Reward, to be paid
annually to any woman of this parish who minds her own
business and interferes with no one else."—Fahnouth
Packet.

GAME.—We understand that grouse are ex-
ceedingly abundant in the Perthshire Highlands this sea-
son, and also that black game and partridges are as nu-
merous as ever they were. As for hares, complaints are
heard in every place from the farmers of the destruction
occasioned by theta in the corn fields. Should the grouse
escape those diseases that attack them occasionally and
carry them off in great numbers, we may calculate on ex-
cellent sport. From their having met with no interrup-
tion during the season of incubation, the birds promise to
be in fine condition by the 12th of August, and to have
fewer cheepers amongst them than has been the case for
some years. It is a remarkable fact, that notwithstand-
ing this abundance of birds, there has been more muir-
burning this season than there has been for a good num
her of years back ; a circumstance well deserving the con-
sideration of both proprietor and tenant, as it has been
more than suspected that plenty of hether will not always
secure plenty of birds ; but, on the contrary, that a regu-
lar rotation of muir-burning is as b ••neficial to the birds as
it is to the sheep.—Perth Courier.

In a parish in the vicinity of Exeter, where
the Clergyman claims the pasturage of the churchyard,
and, in consequence, frequently stocks it with sheep, &c.,
the Churchwarden called his attention to a very luxuriant
growth of weeds, and which, as the Rev. Gentleman
claimed the produce of the yard, he, the Churchwarden,
thought it incumbent on the Clergyman to remove. The
latter, however, replied that " he only claimed the grass,
the weed belonged to the parish'"—Western Times.
THE AFRICAN EXPEDITION.—The vessels
comprising the expedition to Africa are still detained in
our river by contrary winds. The crews and passengers
are on board, and ready to start on the first favourable op-
portunity ; and in order to obviate the risk of carrying
the cholera to Africa, the vessels are to remain at Milford
for a week or ten days, to ascertain that the infection is
not on board.— Liverpool Courier.
Our climate has been again displaying one of
its strange and unaccountable vagaries. After the intense,
and almost unbearable hear of the early port of last week,
the temperature changed towards the end to comparatively
severe cold; so much so that on Saturday the thermometer
had fallen from SO to 50 degrees, and people of both
sexes were seen wrapped in cloaks and great coats.

... . •
DEAF AND DUMB MARRlAGE.—Yesterday
morning, at the old Church, Paddington, by the Rev.
Mr. GIFFORD, SILUS WILMERTOS was married to ELIZA
VESEY, both of them being deaf and dumb, having been
born so. At first some hesitation was felt as to the man-
r er in which the ceremony could be proceeded with ; but
the difficulty was at last obviated by each party copying
in their own hand-writing the respective answers they
would be requited to make, and the questions were then
traced out to them line by line, by the minister, to whom,
after reading them, and signifying their assent by a motion
of the head and hand, they delivered the appropriate
written answer. The other portions of the ceremony were
gone through in a similar manner. The bride and bride-
groom were both apparently about 22 or 23 years of age,
the former possessing considerable personal attractions,
and both of them seemed to fully comprehend the nature
of the solemn obligation they were entering into. Their
writing was extremely good, and was done by them with
much tact and readiness.
SWALLOW FISHING.—A few days ago, an
angler, while pursuing his favourite sport on the Bony,
near Castlecarey, was not a little disappointed to find his
flies less provoking than usual. At length, however, he
reached a part of the stream, which, although somewhat
incommoded from trees, he conceived to be more favour-
able from the shade, and accordingly began to skim his
flies along the water with the most sanguine hopes of suc-
cess, but had not proceeded long when he found them held
behind,
and turning round, supposing them to be entangled
in the
ibranches of one of the trees, was much surprised to
find he hail
caught a swallow. He carried home his cap-
tive, which, after being kept in durance for about tiro
hours, was allowed to escape, when it instantly directed its
flight to the very spot where it was taken.—Stirling
Advertiser.

The funeral of Mr. WILKINSON, the un-
fortunate gentleman who was murdered on the River last
Tuesday, took place on Sunday. His remains were re-
moved at one o'clock from his residence in Jewin-street,
Cripplegate, followed by his two brothers, Mr. TUCKER,
an attorney, his brother-in-law, and nine other relatives,
as mourners, to Cripplegate church, where the service for
the dead was read in an impressive manner by the Curate ;
and- the coffin, containing the corpse, was afterwards in-
terred in the burial-ground adjoining, where a considerable
crowd bad collected, who preserved the most respectful
silence throughout the mournful ceremony. Messrs.
Mrrcuitia. and ISaESTER, surveyors of Thames Police,
who apprehended the parties charged with the murder,
walked in front of the funeral procession, carrying their
staves hung
with black crape. Mr. WILKINSON was a
very promising young man, and had not attained his 25th
year. He was the principal support of a widowed mother,

Mr. HUNT presented a petition from the North-wester
Metropolitan Union praying for a full and complete inquiry
into the case of private Somerville. The Hon. Member
said there was now a Star Chamber inquiry at Weedon
Barracks, to which the public were not admitted, and
where the unfortunate man was to be a witness, under
the terror of the lash again, in case he gave such evidence
as be could do if he were at liberty. He was sorry the
Hon. Member for Middlesex bad withdrawn his motion
for a proper inquiry upon this case, for it was highly im-
portant that the ensuing inquiry should be ample and
publ c.
Mr. HUME said he only withdrew his motion upon
the assurance of the Right Hon. Member for Westmin-
seer (Sir J. C. Hobhouse), that every opportunity should
be given for a full inquiry. E the case should turn out
otherwise, be would he ready to bring forward his mo-
tion for a more effectual inquiry.

Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE said it would be time enough,
for the Hon. Member (Mr. Hunt) to make such obberva.
tiona when the result of the inquiry proved it to have
been ineffectual.

The petition was ordered to be printed.

Mr. HUNT then presented a petition from a public
meeting of the working classes he'd on Kennington Com-
mon on the 9th of July, praying for the abolition of the
punishment of fl .ig:!ing in the army and navy.
Sir J. BRIDGES was persuaded, from what he
had seen while he was in the,army, that corporal punishment
was highly injurious to the army, and if he should be
in the House in a future Parliament when it was proposed
to abolish ir, he would cordial y support the proposition.
Colonel EVANS supported the prayer of the petition.
Mr. HUNT presented a petition from certain smug-
glers confined in Bodmin gsoJ, praying for an act of
grace. The Hon. Member hoped that some other mode
of punishing smugglers would be adopted than that of
confining them for a length of time in prison, where they
were a great burden on the county and parish rates—they
being maintained at the expense of the county, and their
families supported by the parish.
Mr. HUME supported the prayer of the petition.
Mr. LITTLETON on reference to the petition found it
was addressed to " Henry Hunt, Esq." and not to the
House.—(Loud laughter.)
Mr. HUNT said he bad not discovered that before, and
begged to withdraw the petition.
Mr. M. O'CONNELL presented six petitions in favour
of Reform and Education in Ireland, and also against the
Tithe System.

The ilort. MEMBER also presented a petition from a
person of the name of Banks, praying that a more equita-
ble system might be adopted in levying the land tax.
Also a petition from Mr. John Stephen, jun., com-
plaining of the conduct of General Darling, the Gover-
nor of New South Wales, in causing him to be dismissed
from his office.

Lord HOWICK observed, that he should not enter fur-
ther on the subject at present than to say, Mr. Stephen
had been dismissed from his office for conduct which, in
the opinion of the executive Government, had rendered
him totally unfit to bold a situation tinder the Crown.
Mr. Stephen was suspected of being privy to the escape of
a female convict, and was called upon to answer some in-
terrogatories before tie Council upon the subject, which
he refused to do. Under these circumstances, General
Darling had no other course to pursue than to suspend
him. Mr. Stephen then came home and represented
his case to the Colonial Office, but as they bad a
great mass of contradictory evidence before them
they could not do otherwise than send the case
back to be investigated by the Council. This was the
course taken by Sir George Murray, and he (Lord
Howick) did not see that any other course could have
been take❑ under all the circumstances.
Mr. H. BULWER considered that as there was such a
vast difference in the statements made by the Noble Lord
and the petitioner, no better course could be pursued than
to have a full inquiry.
Mr. HUME said that, being mixed up in the affairs of
General Darling, he had taken the trouble to write
to several persons who were resident in the colony
at the time the transactit,n complained of took
place ; for he was anxious to know what charac-
ter the petitioner bore, both in his official and pri-
vate capacity. He was not aware that the petition
was to be presented at that time, or he would
have brought down the answers he had received.
However, by them he found that Mr. Stephen stood high
both as a private gentleman, and in his capacity as a Ma-
gistrate and Register of the Supreme Court. He would
ask whether it were to be allowed, that a governor was
to have power to send police-officers into a man's house,
and that man a magistrate, to ransack the whole of
his paper,, and look into his most private affairs,
without his ever having bi en summoned before any
court, or being called upon to explain any-
thing on the subject of which he was suspected to be
guilty. The Honourable Member then read certificates
of good character, signed by all the Judges of the Court
in the Colony, and by the Attorney general, in favour of
the petitioner. Unless Government were prepared to
support the most arbitrary conduct on the part of the Go-
vernors, it was impossible to let this case pass without in.
quiry. By so doing, Government would in effect say to
the people of the colony, you must not offend General
Darling ; he is lord and master, and may act as he
pleases. You may bring your complaints to England,
but there all that you will get will be, that you be
referred back to the man who has already injured you.
He would say no more at present on the subject, as he in-
tended next week to bring forward a motion on the con-
duet of General D 'fling generally. . . .

Mr. DIXON was at a loss to know whether the con-
duct of General Darling, or the opinions broached by the
Noble Lord, were the most illegal. He would tell the Noble
Lord that the case was begun illegally, for neither in New
South Wales, nor in England, could a warrant be executed
legally at the dead of night, as that was.
Mr. HUNT considered it an act of the grossest injustice
that the petitioner should be told to go back to the co-
lony, in order to clear himself from the charges, when it
was well known that he could benefit nothing by it, his
office having been abolished.
Sir C. FORBES said, it would be much better if
his Majesty's Government would select fewer military
men to fill the office of Governors. A civilian had
been appointed to the Governorship of Ceylon, and
he hoped that example had been followed. He knew Mr.
Stephen, and he considered him quite incapable of the
conduct imputed to him.
The petition was then ordered to be printed.

Mr. HUME gave notice, that, on the 2d of August, he
would move an Address to his Majesty to institute an in-
quiry into ti,e conduct of General Darling.
Mr. STANLEY presented the following petitions i❑
favour of the Government system of education in Ireland
from the Protestant Dissenters of South Shields; from the
township of Manchester, in the county of Lancashire ;
frotn a Political Union in Cropper-street, Manchester;
from the inhabitants of St. Nicholas and St. Luke, Dub-
lin ; from Edinburgh ; from Dum"ries ; from toe minister
and elders of a congregation at Cupar ; from the Presby-
wry of Belfast, in connection with the Session Church ;
from the Southern Presbytery of Dublin; and from the
minister and elders of the Presbyterian Synod of Ulster.
Captain GORDON was surprised to find it stated in
one of the number of these petitions, that all the other
systems of education in Ireland had failed. The
Kildare-street Society, so far from having failed,
had amounted from only one school to a number
at which 137,600 scholars attended. If there
had been any failure it was from a limitation of funds, but
the whole of them prospered to the full extent of their
means.

Mr. HUME supported the prayer of the petitions.

. .
After a few observations from Mr. D. JOHNSTON and
Mr. BULWER, the petitions were ordered to lie on the
table.

Mr. EWART presented two petitions from certain
Presbyterian Disenters in Liverpool, in favour of the na-
tional system of education in Ireland.

Mr. GOULBIJRN was anxious to embrace that oppor-
tunity of askiug a question of the Noble Lord opposite. It
appeared that, in the finance accounts of the year end-
ing January, 1832, there had been charged out of the
Consolidated Fund, a considerable sum , which had been
paid to the holders of the 4 per Cent. Annuities. The
interest amounted to not less than 200,0001. These 4
per Cent Annuities were created on the reduction of the
Five per Cents. ; and Parliiment, in 1830, determining
tl nay off the Four per Cents., offered to the parties who
held them to take SI per cent., when it was dis-
tinctly engaged that no interest should be payable

Mr. GOULBURN expressed his opinion that the Go-
vernment had acted on an erroneous view of tht! Act of
Parliament. When he was in office application was made
to him to do the same thing which the Noble Lord bad
consented to do, but he refused.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that setting aside
all considerations of policy, the parties were entitled, by
the fair construction of the Act of Parliament, to receive

'our per cent.
Sir R. PEEL wished the minute of the Treasury
which authorized the payment of the money, and the opi-
nion of the Law Officers, to be laid upon the table.
Lord ALTHORP would consider whether the opinion
of the Law Officers could with propriety be produced.
Mr. HUME hoped that the No,le Lord would see nu
reason to object to the production of the opinion.

THE BUDGET.
Colonel SIBTHORPE asked when it was probable
,hat the Budg.t woul I be brought forward?

Lord ALTHORP would rn:lie a financial statement on
Friday, on moving that the House should resolve itself
into a Committee of Ways and Meaty,.

LOAN TO GREECE.
On the question that the House should resolve itself into
a Committee of Supply,
Mr. ROBINSON took that opportunity of pr testing
against the course which Government had pursued with
respect to the Russian Dutch Loan and the proposed
loan to Greece.

Lord AL fHORP was understood to defend the policy
of Government.

Sir R. PEEL expressed a hope that this country would
not guarantee more than one-third of the loan to Greece.
Lord ALTHORP said that we would guarantee only

a third.

Mr. HUME hoped that Ministers would lay some evi-
dence before the House, to prove that the wishes of the
people of Greece had b,-en consulted with respect to ac
form of their Government.
The Home then resolved itself into a
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Mr. S. RICE moved that a sum of 15,0001. be granted
towards defraying the expense of erecting a nationaJ
Picture-gallery and Record-office.
Sir R. PEEL expressed his cordial acquiescence itt
this vote.

Sir M. W. RIDLEY was persuaded that this vote
would receive the cheerful sanction of the public. Lie
would beg to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet at
the head of the Admiralty, on a subject respecting which
he had made some observations on a former occasion ; Le
meant the obelisk called Cleopatra's Needle. He had
learned that this obelisk was new in such a dilapidated
state, that if conveyed to this country, it would disappoint.
the expectations of the public ; but he had likewise learned
that there was a beautiful monument of the same kind at.
Carnac, which had been placed at our disposal, and he
~ished to ascertain what were the intentions of Govern-
ment with regard to their removal ?
Lord ALTHORP said, that Cleopatra's Needle tvu
certainly an object of great curiosity, but from inquiries
put to persons who had lately seen it, he believed that at
was not in a state sufficiently perfect to justify any consi-
derable expenditure on its removal. Inquiry on the sub-
j,7ct was, I:owever, going on.
Mr. HUME was of opinion, that instead of depositing
portion of the public records in the contemplated build-
ing, it would be much better to have all the records of
the country secured in one place. He would suggest the
propriety of transferring the Royal Society to the rooms
i..tended for the Record -office. With respect to the Royal
Academy, lie was afraid that its arrangements were not of
a character corresponding with what might he anticipated
from a national institution. He, therefore, hoped that
Government would take its bye-laws into consideration,
with a view to see whether they were such as afforded the
:;reatest possible advantage to art and artists. He was
satisfied that great advantage would be derived from
,nalsiog the Royal Academy as generally useful as they
could.

Colonel SIBTHORPE hoped they should hear no more
f spending the public money on such nonsense as Cleopa-
ti a's Needle. He considered the mercenary mode in
,ehich admission was obtained to Westminster Abbey and
other public edifices in the metropolis as highly disgraceful.
Sir R. H. INGLIS complained of the present neglected
sitate of Westminster Hall. With respect to the Royal
Academy, the rules of which had been adverted to by the
lion. Member for Middlesex, he thought it well entitled to
the favourable consideration of the House.
Mr. S. RICE said the Government had taken the
rreatest care that the estimate should rather exceed than
fill below the expense of the proposed building, and the
lion. Member for Middlesex might rest assured that no
Alterations should take place in the plan without its
coming under the cognizance of the Treasury.
After some observations from Mr. Warburton, Mr.
Dundas, Mr. Robinson, Mr. S. Rice, and Mr. Pelham,
Mr. W. BANKES, with respect to the Egyptian obe-
lisks, must protest against the removal of the obelisk from
Carretc, as it could not be effected without great injury to
one of the most splendid temples of antiquity. It seemed
to him preposterous to think of ornamenting Charing-
cross with the majestic monuments of Sesostris.
After a few words hem Mr. HUNT, the vote was
agreed to.

The next vote was the sum of 4,973/. 45., for the charge
of the civil establishment of the Bahamas.
Afrer a few words from Mr. ROBINSON, Lord Howler:,
and Mr. GOULBURN,

Mr. HUME objected to the large salaries given to go-
vernors of some of the small colonies, at a time when the
colonists themselves were complaining of great distress.
Ile hoped that the colonies would, as far as was practica-
ble, be made to bear the expenses of their own civil esta-
blishments.

Mr. HUNT thought the salary of the Governor of the
Bahamas too high ; and moved, as an am-n linent, that
the whole vote he reduced by the sum of 6351.
Sir C. WETHERELL asked, could any man, who on
former evening heard the Hon. Member for Middle•ex
vote that black was white, in assenting to take three mil-
lions from the pockets of the people, in order that Al nis-
t rs might keep their places,—could, he repeated, any
man now hear, without contempt and scorn, the Hon.
Nlember's miserable, dirty, petty, farthing-cavilling about
the salaries of men who were devoting their time, and
wasting their health, in distant, and often unhealthy,
colonies, in the public service, and who were at expenses
which required very frequently what their salaries did not
cover ? Such a course as that pursued by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Middlesex on the occasion alluded to, when con-
trasted with his objection on the present, could only ex-
cite the scorn and contempt of the House. How durst the
lion. Member insult the House by talkine of miserable
paltry savings of the salaries of officers abroad, as necee-
•ary to economy, after such a vote of millions as he con-
sented to the other evening, when, according to his own
avowal, he was voting that black was white?—(Hear.)

Mr. HUME said, that if such observations as those of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had fallen from any
other Hon. Member, it might excite some surprise, but
coming from him, he was neithi-r surprised nor affected
by them. Before the Learned Gentleman found fault
with him, however, he taught to have stated the truth, as
to his (Mr. Hume's) vote the other evening. It was not
a question of economy which was then before the House.
It was a scheme, under a mere show of pretence of eco-
nomy, to get such a vote against Ministers as might in-
duce them to resign their places, but, having been de-
leated in that scheme, the Learned Gentleman and those
with whom he acted were sore under their disappoint-
ment.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side.) He
would tell the Learned Gentleman that he would dare to
do anything in that House which he conceived to be his
duty. If there was any man who insulted the House by
t..e course he sometimes pursued, it was the Learned Gen-
t -man himself, for if any man made himself ab•urd and
idiculous in it by his language and manner it was be.
Toe Learned Gentleman had on this, as on other oeca-
.,i ,ns, ventured to talk upon matters about which l►e
knew nothing. He had, he supposed, only just come in-
t,' the House, and ventured to comment on what had
1,1!,n from him (Mr. Hume) without having heard Lim.
Now the objection be made was not to the casts of particu-
.ar individuals. Wbat he had alluded to was the h 811 tO,

laries p,id to some of our Co'onial Governors, at a time
when the colonists were complaininz of severe distress.
Sir C. WETHERELL said his chief objection was to
the H •n, Member's voting that black was white, which he
hal dove on his own admission, in voting for Ministers on
the occasion alluded to.

Mr. HUME hid on that, as he had (lone on many fir-
mer occasions during the progress of the Reform Bins,
voted with Minis:era on points where be differed from
them, but he had done so front a wish not to embarrass
them, kn..wine that they had enough of embarrassments
from the attack.. of those who sought to mike those dif-
ferences of opinion the means of turning them out of
otlioe.—( Hear, bear.) Ile repared, that the qtusiicin the
tither evening was not one of economy He would appeal
to the Right Hon. 13aronet, the Member for Tamworth
(Sir R Peel). and ask him whether, if be were in (Ace,
he would not pay the money to Russia? He would put it
to that test. That was tire view he took of it, and he had
a right to take and to state what view of it he thought
proper, without being subject to the remarks of the
Learned Gentleman, couched in language which he was
sure no aber Member of that Howe would use ; hat he
would not take any further notice of tin! Learned Gentle-
man's language. When the Hon. and Learned Gent'eman
talked of t conemy, he (Mr. Hume) would ask him what
measure of economy, or, lie might say, whet other measure
of public utility had he (Sir C. Wetherell) ever supported
by hit votes in that House?
Mr. GOULBURN must concur with Lis Hon. and
Learned Friend io thinking that the Hon. Member for
Middlesex was altogether inconsistent in the vote alluded
to, even ern his own admission.

After a few words frorn Sir C. WETHERELL,

Mr. HUNT said, that he was the guilty party on this
occasion, and that the charges of the Learned Gentleman,
of miserable, pettifogging, cavilling. were meant fir him.
It was he who had proposed the reduction of the salary of
the Governor, and he thought that the suns wlfi'elt would
remain, of 1,8001. a year, would be sufficient for him.
Mr. S. RICE would appal to the very next vote in the
list, where there had been a reduction of from 6,800/. to
.I.'oo/., as a proof that Govurnment would have reduced
the present vote lower if they could consistently with the
public service.
"Mr. BURGE supported the vote.
The amendment was then, by leave, withdrawn, and the
original motion agreed to.

- The next was, that a sum of 8001. be granted to defray
the eh .rge of the civil estaAshment of Nova Scotia.

Mr. ROBINSON looked upon the refine ion made in
this vote as an earnest of what Government were di.
po,ed to do, when they could, in tip! way of reduction. He
hoped that in time the whole of our colonies would be
made to hear the charge of their own civil establishments.

Lord HOWICK said, that this vote, as had been already
intimated by his Right Hon. Friend, had been reduced
from 6,900/. to its present amount, and that the 800/.
orou;(1 be discontinued next year.
The motion was agreed to
The next was a sum of 5,624/. 119. 8.1. for the civil
establishment of Bermuda.

Mr. ROBINSON asked why the colonial secretary of
that colony had so large a salary as 1,500/. a year ?
Lord 110 WICK said, that the colonial secretary was a
must important race in every colony, and he did not think
the pay in thin instance much exceed-d the general average
such situations. But if it did any thing, Bermuda being
convicted colony, threw a considerable degree of additional
bm,iness on the secretary.

After a few words from Mr. DIXON, Mr. Bu RUE, and
Mr. S. Rit}.;, the motion was afire. d to.
The 'sum of 1,023/. was voted for defraying the charge
of the Civil List Es;ablishment of Prince Edward's Island
to the Ist of March, 1833, after a short conversation,
between Mr. HUME, Lord Howtux, Mr. S. Ra.E, and
Mr. DIxoN.

The sum of 16,5761. 'vs propotli fm- defraying the
charge of the Civil Establishment of Newfoundland, fm the
same period.
In answer to a question from Mr. HUME,
Lord HO WICK said, that now the people of New—
foundland had e.n assembly, they would very so,n, he was
convinced, though not to the extent anticipated by the
Hon. Nlember for Middlesex, endeavour to defray their
Own expenses.

Mr. ROBINSON observed, that he hadeeason to know
that the people of that colony w re dispoged very shortly
Its take that course. A considerable saving might, how-
ever, be effected, by abolishing the Admiralty Court, and
the I.,bra‘lor Couit, which were unnece,sary. 2,000/. i,r
3,000/. a-year might also he saved by giving up the colo-
nial vessel. One or two small vessels of war might he
placed on the station for the pnrpose of preve,,ting smug-
gling ; and, at the proper seasons, the Governor might
make lie necessary visitations in one of them.
The vote was agreed to.

The next vote proposed was 43,0431. 7s. lit, to de-
fray the charge of the Civil Establishments of Western
A rica.

Mr. HUME observed, that a Committee of that House
had, some time since, recommended the abandonment of
Sierra Leone and Fernando Po ; and he wished to know
why that recommendation had not been attended to ?
Lord HOWICK said, the Hon. Member was mistaken
in supposing that such a recommendation had been given.
It had been recommended that the establishment of Sierra
Leone should be removed to Fernando Po, and it was very
uncertain whether any settlement could be made there.
With respect to Sierra Leone, be had authority for stating,
that much improvement had taken place in that colony. If
they now withdrew from it, the whole fruits of the ex
pence would be lost, and the black population would, h
feared, find their way into the Spanish colones.

Mr. HUME doubted whether Sierra Leone was in an
improving state.

Lord tiOWICK bad received a letter so lately as May
last, which showed that Sierra Leone was improving.

Sir G. MURRAY said, that these settlements had been
set on foot, in consequence of the desire which the people
of this country felt to put an end to the slave trace.
Sierra Leone was the situation first adopted. But the
principal scene for the operations of the slave ships being
in the Bight of Benin, great mortality occurred on board
those ships, when captured, in the voyage between the
Bight of Benin and Sierra Leone. It was therefore
deemed afivisahle to remove the settlement to Fernando
Po. This change was recommended before he came into
office. His own opinion was, that by pursuing this
course they created two evils instead of one. If France
acted up to her own treaties, as this country had done,
more would be done for putting down the slave trade than
had ever been effected, and there would be no necessity
for retaining Fernando Po, a station which he looked
upon to be quite as unhealthy as Sierra L, one He
should be sorry to see Sierra Leone abandoned, because
he thought with the Noble Lord, that through that
channel civilization might ultimately be introduced into
Africa.

111 r. DIXON preferred the retention of Fernando Po
to that of Sierra Leone, because he thought the former
place the more healthy.
Lord SANDON was of opinion that they ought to
pause before they determine,' to give up Sierra Leone.
The vote was ag,,eed to.

The sum of 27,438/. I3s. Id. was next proposed, to
defray the charge of the ecclesiastical establishment of the
British North American provinces, and for the propaga-
tion of the Gospel.
Mr. HUME could not suffer this vote to pass without
observation, when he knew that almost every man
in Upper and Lower Canada was adverse to any such
grant being sent there. Let it be observed that this grant
was nut for the support of religion generally, but for the
support of a small sect, forming not 1-20th part of the
population. If the Noble Lord did not give some assur-
ance that this expense would be reduced, he should make
a motion relative to it.

Loud HOWICK said that as tie clergy, who were now
paid by the Government, died or were otherwise piovided
for, the people of Canada would be called on to support
their successors.

Mr. HUME—What! Bishop and all?
Lord HOWICK—Yes! Bishop and all.
Sir R. H. INGLIS thought that adequate means should
be provided for the purpose of affording religious instruc-
tion to the people in cur colonies. Wherever the flag of
England waved, the church of England was there the
church established by law, and he made not that state-
ment on his own authority alone, but upon the high autho-
rity of Mr. Locke.•
Mr. DIXON, as a member of the church of Scotland,
which was as much established by law as the church of
England, could never sit by in silence and hear it assertee,
upon any authority, either ancient or modern, that where-
ever the flag of England waved, there the church of Eng-
land should he the established religion. The true way to
alienate the feelings of Canada, as we I as of Ireland, was
to make the people of those countries ply for religious
estahlishmeots to which they did not belong.

Lord HOWICK did not see why this c,,untry should
be called upon to maintain a church establishment in Ca-
nada, any more than it was called upon to defray the ex-
pense of maintaining a police establishment in that colony ;
as Canada was sufficiently age of itself to support its er-
chesias:ical establishments, England should not be bur-

The 96th article of the laws of Carolina was not drawn
up by Mr. Locke, but was inserted contrary to his express opi-
nion ; and, in fact, contrary to the ,pirit of the article imme-
diately preceding it.--[ED.]

dened with any portion of the expense connected with ther
maintenance.

Mr. LABOUCHERE expressed his satisfaction at the
course ad,,pted in this instance by his Majesty's Govern.
:rent. With regard to the statement of the Hon. Baronet
“pposite, that wherever the fl ig of England waved, the
church of England was the established religion, he begeed
to remind him, that the Roman Catholic church was, in
very respect. the established church, and that, too, on
the solemn faith of treaties, in the province of Lower
Canada.

Mr. HUNT approved of what had been done by
Ministers, and was only sorry that they had not gone fur-
ther in reducing this grant.
Mr. SHELL said, that the Catholic church was the esta-
blished church in Lower Canada, and that as such it col.
3••cted the tithes there from the Roman Catholics on the
:itthority of an express Act of Parliament—the 14th G•o.
HI. The Protestants, however, in Lower Can rda were
xt•mpted from the payment of tithes to the established
c' urch there, thus supplying a case rather different from
that of a country somewhat nearer home, where Catholics
were taxed for the support of an overgrown Protestant
church establishment.

Mr. GOULBURN objected to the reduction of the
grant.

Mr. S. RICE said, that so far from Parliament having
been hitherto cognizant of thin grant, the greater portion
of it had been generally supplied from a quarter which it
would puzzle the most ingenious gentleman in the Howe
to conjecture,—namely, from the sums voted for the army
extraordinaries.—(A laugh.) It could not be s lid, then,
that the principle on which this grant was made had an-
nually came under• the cognizance of Parliament. This
colony was fully able to support its own religious establish-
ments, and, tinder such circumstances, the best course
ebvinusly to pursue was to throw them on the colony for
their support.
Sir G. MURRAY maintained that this country was
bound to provide the means of religious instruction for the
people in our colonies. At the same time he begged to
s ty, that so far from approving of the maintenance of any
exclusive system in the colonies, he thought any such sys-
tart there bad and dangerous. lie did not deny that this
particular grant should be withdrawn, but he entertained
considerable doubts as to the justice of withdrawing it so
rapidly as the Government proposed to do.
Mr. ROBINSON was not quite satisfied with the
hasty change proposed to be made with regard to this
:'rant.
After a few words from Lord SANnoY, the vote was
agreed to.
Mr. S. RICE then moved that a sum not excesding
;'7,500/. be granttd to his Majesty to enable the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland to afford aid to the schools for scrip-
• ural education in that country.
Mr. J. E. GORDON opposed the grant He main-
tained that no system of education would tend to improve
Ireland that was not based upon the Scriptures ; and he
was at a loss to conceive why Government should he in-
duced to interfere with a system of education which was
now pursued in that country—a system such as was not
t goalie in any other country, and to which the Roman
Catholic population were not, as bad been urged, opposed.
lie could not hesitate saying that it was had policy to in-
terfere with the schools now established in obedience to
the wishes of the Roman Catholic priests and bishops. It
is true, th it out of IS applications for aid, 164 schools
list] been established ; but it was most important to
notice, that only 29 clergymen had joined in the applica-
tion. So it appeared on the returns which bad been
made ; but it was a most important consideration with
regard to the Protestant Church that he should men.
Lion, and he spoke from inquiries which he had
made, that out of that number of 29, 14 were
Arians, Seceders, or Presbyterians, so that there were
in fact only fifteen clergymen of the Established Church
who had responded to the appeal of the Metropolitan
Board, of whi,:h a Protestant Archbishop was at the
head. Ile maintained that the schools under the new
system were exclusive in their character, though it had
been urged in their favour that the reverse was the case,
and yet it was for such a ayst.,ni that the present grant was
now sought by his Majesty's Government. Taking into
consideration even the fourth class of schools—he meant
the hedge-schools, the very receptacles of rags and penury
_yet out of a population of 10 000 Protestants, it
would be found that no more than 100 were in attendance
upon the schools under the system of education proposed
by Government. He held in his hand the proposed form
of instruction, with reference to the Ten Commandments,
and which wire copied partly from the Roman Catholic
version of the Scriptures—partly from the Protestant
version, and partly from both. In one of the Command•
ments it was said, " Thou shalt not ntaketo thyself any
graven thitig," and this form had been adopted in order
that the use of the word " image' should not militate
,gainat the Roman Catholics, and yet this change was to
be forced upon the children of the Protestants of that•
country; and, therefore, to this extent an accommodation
was afforded to the Roman Catholic p! iesthood, for this
was absolute reversion or inversion of the principles of the
Established Church. Again, in another portion of the
Scriptures selected for the use of these schools, it was
ascribed, as the Roman Catholic beiieves, that the
Virgin Mary should have the power " to crush the ser-
pent's head," but which it was a part of Protestantism to
deny. He must object, therefore, to such interpretations
b-ing given in notes to scriptural sentences to be used in
Protestant schools.

Sir A. JOHNSTON asked the Rieht Hon. Secretary
whether it was intended to comply with the prayer of the
petition of the General Assembly of Scotland, to the ef-
fect that the fullest li erty might be granted to Protestant
children to read the Scriptures ? If this reasonable requi-
-ition were complied with, he should offer no opposition
to the vote.

Mr. STANLEY said the scheme, as originally laid
down, did not prohibit the establishment of a Bible class
in every school, if it were desired by the Protestants in
attendance. It would be the duty of Protestant ministers
to attend to that ; but if Government were to insist upon
having a Bible class in every school, they would be insist-
ing on a regulation that could n tbe complied with in
many cases, and which would be evaded in others. This
was precisely the case with the Kildare-street Society.
They insisted upon that which drove away the Catholics
from the schools by the very name of it, at the same time
that evasions were resorted to in many instances, which
had the effect of leaving the Protestants without substan-
tial religious instruction.—(Hear ) In framing a system
of education, it was necessary to look to the circumstances
of the country for which it was designed, and he contend-
ed, that a scheme which might perhaps be applicable to
England or Scotland, would not succeed in Ireland. In
England or Scotland, we might possibly insist upon the
forma ion of little classes in the schools with advantage;
but in Ireland such a proposition would drive away the
poorest and most ignorant of the people. He denied that
the framers of the Government plan of education were
averse from or indifferent to Scriptural instruction; the
schools were not intended to do away with Scriptural edu-
cation, but to give as much of it as it was possible to pre-
vail upon the people to receive.—(Hear, htar.)
Mr. MACNAMARA questioned the accuracy of the
information of the Hon. Member for Dundalk, and could
state from his own knowledge that the return relative to
a school in Clare was incorrect, the name of the party re-
ferred to being a forgery.
Mr. GORDON believed that the signature of the honest
man in question was authentic.
Mr. MACNAMARA said, it was not the name of an
honest man, but of an honest woman—(Great laughter)—
and he repeated that the signature was a forgery.
Mr. M. O'FERRALL accused the Hon. Member for
Dundalk of misrepresenting the tenets of the Roman Ca-
tholics in order to induce individuals to vote in a particu-
lar way. On a former occasion the Hon. Gentleman
made some assertions with respect to the College of May-
nooth, Which he (Mr. M. O'Ferrall) had been blamed for
not answerin.! ; but if people in Ireland knew the degree
of weight which attached to the Hon. Member's obser-
vations in that House, they would scarcely find fault with
him (Mr. O'Ferrall) for his silence.

Mr. GOULBUIiN opposed the grant on the ground
that if applied as proposed, it must inevitably tend not to
unite, but to make a marked and indelible distinction be-
tween the two sects of religionists in Ireland, by fixing
particular days for religious instruction to be administered
to each separately.
Mr. S. RICE assured the Right Hon. Gentleman op-
posite, that he, in common with others who supported the
new plan of education, was quite convinced that all in.
struction was inefficient if not based on the foundation of
religious education. Protestants and Catholics were alike
agreed in that principle. It was not denied that a system
of education was necessary. The only question was, whe-
ther this system was the best. It had been said that this
was an unchristian and mere literary system ; but it was
admitted that two days in the week were appropriated to
religion ; and iu the tour first days, besides literature,
extracts of the Scriptures were read ; and the observa-
tions of the mixed Commissioners on these extracts dis-
tinctly recognized the principle contended for by the Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Goulhurn), for they admitted that
education rested on the basis of the Scriptures. He (Mr.
S. Rice) protested against the opinions. of Protestants
being allowed to determine this question, especially at the
present time, when party spirit was excited, and the
grossest perversions of facts were circulate!. If an at-
tempt were made to revive the Kildare-street schools, he

had no objection to its being done at the expense of indi-
viduals, but not of Govrrorr&nt.

Sir R. INGLIS contended that the effect of the system
of the Commissioners was to exclude the Scriptures from
the schools four days in the week
Sir E. HAYES said, that the people of Ireland would
never submit to a system of education which authorized a
mutilation of the Scriptures, in order to suit the prejudices
of the Catholic priesthood.
Mr. WYSE supported the grant.
Mr. LEFROY contended, the uncontrolled use of the
whole of the Scriptures ought to form the basis of a
system of national education.
Colonel SIBTHORPE opposed tie grant.
The Committee then divided.

For the Grant GS
Against it
Majority
£11,161 was then voted to defray the expenses of
Maynooth College, with the understanding that the dis-
cussion on the subject was to be taken on the bringing up
of the Report.
The House resumed, and the CHAIRMAN reported pro-
gress. To be taken into consideration on Wednesday next.
The Russian Loin Bill was read a second time ; to be
committed to-morrow.

The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at a quarter past three o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 23.

Lord RADNOR presented petitions in favour of Reform
and against tithes from a parish in Mayo.

Oa the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESEURY, several
Rills were forwarded a stage.
Lord SEFTON presented two petitions in favour of the
new pl in of education in Ireland, from Liverpool.
Lord PLUNKETT presented similar petitions from the
presbytery of Antrim, and other places in Ireland.
MAIL COACH ROADS (IRELAND).

Lord ORIEL begged to ask the Post-Master-General
whether be had made an inquiry into the subject of a
complaint preferred by some petitioners a few nights bark,
of the inecurity of the mail conveyance on a part of the
road between Londonderry and Dublin, and of a change
in the line of road.
The Duke of RICHNIOgD said he had made the re-
quisite inquiries, and saw no necessity for altering the plan
which had been recently ad,pted.

the Protestant interests of the Crown and the Esta
Wished Church. A measure that proceeded not
on these principles, bat which gave the greate‘t
influence to the Catholics in opposition to the
Protestants, which this measure did. could not he
a sure mode of proceedinq, and under such an impression,
be meant to give his negative to the second reading of this
Bill to night.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE had listened to the
Noble Duke with great regret, for he had ever comidered
the passing of the Catholic Relief Bill as the proudest act
of the Noble Duke's political] career, and he wondered how
the advocate of that great measure of justice and toleration
could now endeavour to rip up and inflame religious dis-
tinctions which he had hoped were destroyed forever. And
what did the Noble Duke's argument amount to ? Sim-
ply that the people of Ireland were chiefly Catholics.
Was that a reason why they should he shut out from the
benefits of the Constitution ? If the Catholics possessed
wealth and power—were in a situation in which they
could independently exercise the right of suffrage—why
should they not be invested with the suffrage right?—
(Hear, hear.) But did the Bill only extend their influ
ence ? Pray would any man at all acquainted with Ireland
venture to assert that the Catholic influence would predo-
minate in Belfast, Newry, and other such towns ; or
venture to deny that when the Catholics, as in Galway,
would be the chief electors, that they p )sses•ed
every claim of property, intelligence, and independence?
Noble Lords were in great error if they persuaded them-
selves that Ireland was still to be ruled by the bayonet.
No; the reign of mere force had passed away, and if they
wished to preserve the British connection with that coun-
try, they must not persist in their struggle against public
opinion, daily becoming more and wore enlightened, but
act towards the Irish with even .handed justice.—(Hear.)

The Earl of LIMERICK a;-.tre,ol with the Noble Duke
th it the present Bill would overturn those arrangements
which were adopted at the Union, and on the passing of the
Catholic Relief Bill, for the protection of the Protestant
interest in Ireland. Well he remembered the emphatic
language of the Noble and Learned Lord (Plunkett) in
the Irish House of Commons, of which he also was at
the time a Member, against the measure of the Union ;
and the present Bill proved that the Learned Lord was
correct in predicting that all the existing institutions of
that country would be immolated at the shrine of the
mother country._
Lord PLUNKETT sail he was unwilling to provoke
firther discussion, and would only trouble their Lordships
with a few words. His Noble Friend (the Earl of Lime-
rick) kid alluded to the Union between England and Ire-
land. At that period they were both Members of the
Irish Howe of Commons; but upon this question they
had entertained very different opinions, and had given
opposing votes. He had opposed the Union vehemently.
No question had ever since arisen or ever would claim his
attention which could so occupy his heart as that measure
had done. He had considered that the passing of the Union
would have been the extinction of the independence of his
native land, and he had struggled against it with all his
might. But he had lived long enough to find that he
was then mistaken, and to correct the prophecies he bad
then uttered, and the anticipations which he had then
entertained. He did then imagine that Ireland would
have been thrown, bound baud and foot, at the
mercy of England, and that the power thus conferred
would have been mercilessly abused. He was entirely
and agreeably disappointed. He never, since the
period of the ['llion, knew a question affecting the
interests of Ireland, which was brought before the
United Parliament, that was not alone treated fairly,
but even with partiality and kindness, in consideration of
the former misgovernment to which the country had been
subjected. He therefore confessed that he had been en-
tirely wrong in his views, and now protested as strongly
as mieht be against a repeal of the Legislative Union, for
he felt that from that might follow a separation of the two
countries, which would be alike prejudicial to the best in-
terests of bosh. It was accordingly with great grie that
he heard the Noble Duke (Wellington) declare that he
would give his vote against going into Committee on the
Bill under consideration. For this was in effe t to declare
that he would deny to Ireland that Reform which had been
conceded to England and Scotland. It was saying that
in Enelanc. and Scotland, by the mass of the people, awl
by large majorities of the House of Commons, and by the
decree of Parliament, rotten boroughs were rooted out as
a disgrece to the Constitution—were excised as sores and
ulcers, yet, nevertheless, they ought and should be con.
tinned in Ireland, as p trt of the Constitution of that coun-
try. Now he contended, that if there was one course of
conduct more than another, which was calculated to fill
the ranks of these anxious for a repeal of the Union, it was
t, is. To hold out to the people of Ireland that alts ough
abuses had been swept away in England and Scotland, they
should he continued in Ireland, would be, he repeated, the
most disastrous sentiment which could possibly he held nut
to that unfortunate country. He lamented likewise the
n servatinne which the 1\ ~b!e Duke had made. He (the
Duke of W,llington) had argued the question as if it were
one of Protestant and Catholic. He con-id, red that he
might, even taking the qua scion in that light, prove that
the Noble Duke was mist ken in the condlus-on at which
lie had arrived; but lie would net comic cend to argue the
question on such, grounds.—( Hear, from Eat 1 Grey.) He
wool(' ask, had the Noble Dike's great tneasure indeed been
carried, if they were oow•a-days to legislate or argue upon
the authority and existence of those ancient grudges be-
tween the two religious parties? It they were so to do,
he bad no hesitation in declaring the Noble Duke's mea-
sure was one of two things—useless or mischievous. He
remember, d that when the Union to which the Noble Eall
alluded had been brought forward there had een no ques-
tion entertained respecting Calhorie or Protestant: the
promoters of it were wisely anxious to keep all such ques-
tions out of the way. The measure was carried, and
how?—with strong objections on the part of the Protest-
ants, and by nothing approaching to an unanimous ap-
proval on the part of the Catholics; and yet great
exertions bad been used to reconcile theni to the
measure. And then, as to the towns and the coun-
ties of towns to which representation was granted ;
how were they selected? Thirty-four boroughs re-
ceived this right. But he never heard that any portion of
them received it on the principle that they were to be bul-
warks of the Protestant interests. Let them only recall to
mind how these boroughs were selected. Laying aside
the University, thirty-three great towns were chosen,
which in the aggregate possessed a population of 800,000
souls. Were these selected as the bulwarks of Protes-
tantism ? He never heard it intimated at the time. The
feeling on the part of those who made the arrangement
was, " We are doing a fair thing by Ireland in reserving
the representation to the most wealthy and populous
towns and cities." In what way was it subsequently
acted on ? Why the representation of seventeen of those
places, having an aggregate population of 180,000 per-
sons, was disposed of by seventeen gentlemen. Would it
be then said, that in doing away with this scandalous mo-
nopoly, they were dissenting from the principles of the
Union? He never, certainly, did understand the principles
of the Union after this manner. It never occurred to the
opponents of that measure, that they could use it as an
objection. He never used it; and yet he had opposed the
measure as vehemently and as industriously and as strenu•
ously as he could. But then it was said, in objection to
the Bill, that the forty-shilling freeholders in the coun-
ties of cities ought to be disfranchised. If so, why were
they not done away with at the time of the Union, if these
boroughs were, indeed, intended as the bulwarks of the
Protestant interest ?—(Hear, hear.) It was urged that
these forty-shilling freeholders were entirely under
the influence of the priests. This, for himself, he did
not believe; but it was unnecessary to dwell, upon it now.
Again, it was said, that in this Bill they would be depart-
ing from the principle of the measure of 1829. He did not
think that adjustment had been made upon the principle
which the Noble Duke had that night stated—that was, that
originally forty shilling freeholders in the counties of cities
had been preserved as a balance to the power of the free-
men; and therefore that now that you limited the power
of freemen, you ought to disfranchise the 40s. freeholders
to preserve the balance. But here it was in the first
instance assumed that the 40s. freeholders were entirely a
Roman Catholic constituency, under the influence of their
priests. Now, this was not the argument used for the
disfranchisement of the 40s. freeholders in counties. The
argument was, that they were a constituency always tinder
the influence either of their priest or landlord ; therefore,
they were to be disfranchised, not because they were a
Roman Catholic constituency, but because they were a►t
incapable constituency—because they were not an inde-
pendent constituency. Now, here too was a second assump-
tion respecting freemen ! Was it true, that freemen were of
necessity Protestant ?—certainly not. Roman Catholics
might be freemen of Corporations at any time. Until after
the passing of the Relief Bill in 1829, they were excluded
trout Corporate offices by the Oath of Supremacy, but by
this only—and now that it was done away with, they
might accordingly be freemen, and hold any corporate of-
fice. In short, they enjoyed every corporate right. Why
was it, then, that these boroughs became to be considered
as bulwarks of the Protestant interest? Because there was
a monopoly upon the part of those who possessed the
rights of election, and they never would elect Catholics.
Well, then, how did the case stand ?—how was the mea-
sure of 1829 to be viewed ? It wee either meant to operate o►•
riot to operate. Now if it was intended not to operate, it
was a mere mockery and delusion. But if it were in-
tended to operate, why should they object to measures

that gave or secured to Roman Catholics those rights to
which they were fairly entitled under the Relief Bill ?
But really he was wandering from the question before
their Lordships, What they hail to consider was thin,
were• they likely to have an independent constituency?
Noble Lords opposite said this Bill would let in Roman
Catholics, who would firm a areat maj airy of the con •
stituency. Now he did not believe it would But if
Roman Catholics were in possession of that station and
wealth which entitled them to a majority in the constituent
body, why should they not have it ? On the occasion of
the production of this Bill in 1829, how was the mater
argued ? On one side, they said, take care how you pass
this measure; it is not a small body of Catholics you
will admit into Parliam, nt; but if it be passed at all, let
it be frankly acted on. The same sentiments respecting the
mode in which it should he acted on were uttered from
the other side. And if they did not so do, the Roman
Catholics would lie more exasperated, and justly, than if
the measure had been completely rejected. Undoubtedly it
would be more galling to be shut out from advantages to
which they were entitled by law, than to have been re-
fused the concession of them originally. His Noble
Friend (the Earl of Limerick) had attacked the influence
of the priests in Ireland as most mischievous. Now, of
al things, he would most earnestly deprecate the giving a
religious tincture to the disturbances which unfortunately
prevailed in Ireland. This was the only thing wanting
to dissipate all hope of peace, and tranquillity, and union
in Ireland. He could give a distinct denial to the allega-
tions which charged the great body of the Roman Catho-
lic priesthood with advocating the cause of mischief and
separation. Of the higher portion of that body he could
not speak in terms of too strong approbation, or too great
respect. Their exertions, he maintained, had been most
meritorious to preserve the peace. But he at the same
time allowed, that there were some most mischievous per-
sons in the Roman Catholic priesthood—men who had
incurred a most desperate responsibili'y. He declared
that he would not have on his soul the weight of te-
sponsibility attaching to some of those persons, for
any earthly consideration.—(llear, hear, hear.) But
were they not thus looking merely on the one side ?
Hid they no priests but the Catholic priests to disturb the
country?—(Hear, hear.) Were there no other priests
who used violent, and abusive, and inflammatory language
—who attended public meetings as agitators, and lost no
opportunity of giving offs-ce to their Catholic fellow-
subjects? Would it, however, lie fair to throw all the
odium which must attach to such proceedings upon the
gnat body of the Church of England clergy? Certainly
nor. He did not believe there was a more exemplary class
of men in the world than the Protestant clergy of Ireland.
They were humane, charitable, generous, learned, and
pious ; their existence in affluence and respectability was
a source of support to religion and peace in that country ;
they were the most eminently serviceable class of resident
gentlemen in Ireland.—(Cheers.) But should not equal
justice he rendered to the Roman Catholic clergy?—
(Hear, hear.) Nobody could venture to deny it ; and
farther he would say, as to the great body of the Roman
Catholics, that it never should be assumed they were on
one side and the Protestants of Ireland on the other.
The fact was, the great body of the Protestants were no
more represented by those who came forward in that
House and elsewhere, and declared—" I say upon the
p art of the Protestants of Ireland"—than was the
great hotly of the Roman Catholics by the dema-
gogues and agitators. He believed that the great
body of the Roman Catholics were fully sensible of
the benefits they had derived from the Union ; of
the increased prosperity—of the additional coins
ferns, they had acquired since that period. A great por-
tion of the country had visibly improved under the benefits
conferred upon it by commercial relations with England;
and he firmly believed, that if one-half the influence had
been used to reconcile and unite the two classes which had
been directed to embitter their hostility, they would now
have a peaceful and a prosperous country.—(Hear, hear.)
It had been frequently said that he was an enemy to the
Protestants of the North of Ireland. He denied that he
ever was ; they formed, in his opinion, as good materials
I for excellent and peaceful subjects as could possibly be
found. They were loyal, religious, industrious, cou-
rageous, rational; hut they were persons capable of being
excited and impelled to embody themselves for mischief, if
their superiors chose to excite them. And he could not
acquit men, in a station of life from which one might
have expected better things, of having resorted to those
acts which were used by the demagogues in inflaming the
passions of the foolish portion of the Roman Catholic
body. But all nose tumultuous and illegal proceedings
must be put down. The full powers of the law should be
directed to this object; and if those powers were not
sufficient, they would call for new laws and greater
pewere.—(Hear.) He agreed, however, with the Noble
Marquis, that the best way to take the arms out of the
hands of the agitator., and resentment out of the harts of
the public, was by the removal of meal grievances. He had
no doubt that deciding that nis Bill should not go into
Committee would be regarded by the great body of the
people as a refusal to remove their grievances; and he
did delieve that this Bill would, if passed in its essential
principles and details, he received with gratitude by the
people, and would be eminently calculated to allay the
disturbances which prevailed.
The Duke of WELLINGTON, in explanation, stated
that he objected in particular to the principle on which
the execution of that pact of the measure which related
to the boroughs was founded, and also to the principle
on which the measure in general was to be carried into
execution.

The Earl of LIMERICK remarked, in allusion to the
Learned Lord's observation. touching the influence of the
priests, that the anti-tithe meetings, and the opposition to
the payment of tithes, had been first excited by a Catholic
prelate, and was encouraged and maintained by the exer-
tions of the priests.
_ _

The Marquis of WESTMEATH was surprised that he
had not heard the Learned Lord's objections to the close
Irish boroughs at an earlier period of his Parliamentary,
history. He denied that there was either the same ne-
cessity or the same demand for Reform in Ireland as there
had been in England. The alterations which 'lreland
wanted were of a very different nature from the speculative
advantages presented to his view in that Bill. There was
no reason, at all events, for enlarging tile representation
on account of trade or commerce, and making the consti-
tuency more democratic. lie would not oppose the Bill,
hut he had heard nothing to induce him to alter his opi-
nion of its want of necessity.
Lord TENIPLENIORE alluded to Belfast, and re.
mark,d, that the Noble Marquis could scarcely think
that the representatives of that large commercial town
should be returned by a sovereign and two burgesses.
Lord- ELLENBOROUGH thought it would be better
that the discussion should be taken on Thursday next, in
consequence
Lords of the
shortness owf thet
Ireland.
notice and the absence
of the Noble
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on Thursday next ; and their Lordships ad-
journed at ten minutes to seven o'clock.