The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-20 00:00:00

Mr. WARBITRTON continued his examination. Is the
book under lock and key ?—Yes.
Have you given any orders for the removal of that book since
you have been in the presence of this House—in the course of
the last quarter of an hour ?—No.
Examined by Mr. D. W. HARVEY. Were the letters
you received addressed to you in the character of Secretary to
the Orange Lodge 2—Certainly.
Does the book in question, which you refuse to produce con-
tain any answer from you as Secretary of the Orange Society,
to letters written on Orange subjects ?—Many.
Examined by Mr. B ORTH WIC K—Suppose the date of
the first entry in the book to be 1835, is there entered in it all
your official correspondence from that period ?--Certainly
not, by a great deal.
Are you willing to produce, for the information of the Com-
mittee of this House, all the official information which you
have in the shape of correspondence or otherwise, respecting
these lodges?—Certainly.
In answer to Mr. O'CONNELL, the witness said if he
had letters of more than ordinary importance he generally
entered them in the book.

Examination continued by Mr. BORTH WICK—In the
event of your absence for some months, what became of the
letters and answers ?—lf they were letters of consequence, I
forwarded the necessary instructions; if they were letters of
mere routine, the persons in the office answered them to the
best of their ability. I refuse, on public principle, to produce
the book—l consider it inquisitorial to call for it, and there-
fore I refuse.—(Withdraw, withdraw.)
The witness withdrew.
Mr. WALLACE moved, that Col. Fairman be taken into
the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms.—( Cries of " No, no,"
and " Hear.")
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER submitted
to the Hon. Gentleman that this would be going rather too
quickly.—( Hear, hear.) The first point to be determined
was, whether the book was one which ought to be produced.
Mr. SCA RLETT begged that the witness might be re-
called.—( Oh, oh.) He had a very important question to put
to him.
The witness was then recalled, and examined by the Hon.
Gentleman—ls the book in question your property or the pro-
perty of the Orange Society ?—I consider it my property.
By Mr. O'CONNELL—Have you any other books con-
taining correspondence between the Orange Lodges and the
Grand Secretary ?—None.
The witness was then ordered to withdraw.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the motion he should now put to the House was, that the
witness who had just left the bar was bound to produce the
book.—( Cheers.) This witness could not be considered a
private individual ; he took on himself a high official situa-
tion. The book in question contained copies of the letters the
witness had received, acting in his official capacity, and also
of the answers that had been sent ; and they were in no other
book.—_( Hear, hear.) Such were that individual's admission.
Then he asked, was this correspondence relevant to the sub-
ject-matter of the inquiry before the Committee ? If it was,
would not the investigation of the Committee be fettered—
would it not be barred altogether, if this evidence were not
produced ?_( Cheers.) Unless they were prepared to tur.,
all their proceedings into a farce—unless they were disposed
to bring ridicule upon them—unless they had determined to
afford to every public delinquent the most easy way of screen-
ing himself from justice, they would demand the production of
v,ok—thny 1.4 ! tilat tl.e whole of the proof
they required should be laid before them.—( Cheers.) He
was most anxious to protect the principle of private confidence,
but he would not do it in a mode to defeat justice and screen
offenders against the laws.—( Cheers.)
Mr. HUME seconded the motion.

The question having been put,
Sir R. INGLIS moved an amendment to the effect, tll,-,t.
only such portions of the document in question should be pro-
duced as related to the subject-matter of the inquiry.
Mr. S/I A Wwished only to observe, that in his opinion th
importance attached to this case was very absurd. He be-
lieved that not the least objection existed to the production of
the documents in question, or of any other relating to Orange
institutions. From first to last he had thought that the wt-
ness ought to have produced the letters.
Sir J. TYRE L L observed, that if the witness refused to
produce the book in question, as he hoped he would not, 11c,
for one should desire to make him do so.
3,• •Slr FREH FlE,'oborated the statement of the
...•

Rigid Bon. Member for the Univet-ity of Dublin(:r::
Shaw), that the. witness had not at first relasel to produrt•
such part of the letters as related to the subject of militar.
lodges, but that afterwards, considering, th.tt. A soft, of thre:.i
seas held out to him upon the point of p'oduci.;g- those relatini,-
tJ 0. tinge Lodges generally, he had felt bound, consulting hi-
honour a 3 a military man, to refuse. He of served also, that
a court of law had no authority whatever to fo-ca a witness to
produce documents; if he :efused to do so, he be per-
sonally punished, but the court had no means of reaching the
documents themselves.

Mr. WA KL E Y ivished, upon the su'ject of the lion. aNd
Learned Gentleman's last observation, that a court had en
power to compel the production of documents; to state a ease
somewhat in point—that of the D,rehestr I.oL.ourers. Thcx,

men were taken before a ma9-,ktrate. They were sei.t to gaol,
and searched—their keys were taken frail consr:ll)l,.-
ww; sent to their houst s—their koxps were opened, their p
pers were taken out of them; and the papers so taken fu..-
aished the ground of the allegations against them. Nov,
ready, if they were to have justice at all let them have even-
handed justice— (Hear, hear)—and let not an Orange societ,
because it was headed by a Duke, have a preference over a
secret society which was headed by village labourers.--( Hear. )
Mr. SCARLETT could not allow the resolution to pa.,s
without protesting against it, on account of the principle
which it involved.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL entirely coocurred in the
present motion ; if the papers were private, Colonel Fairma,
was bound to produce them, because they were relevant to the
investigation.
Mr. AGLIONBY remarked that the amendment of tie
Hon. Baronet was highly objectionable, however plausible is
might at first sight appear.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON supported the amendment.
Colonel PE RCE VA I, had told the witness that he ougla
to produce every document connected with the Orange insti-
tutions of a civil or a military character. As to the compari-
son made by the Hon. Member for Finsbury between this case
and that of the Dorsetshire labotirers, he could only wish that
the Hon. Gentleman would institute his comparison between
the case of those men and that of some really illegal society.
The Orange societies were perfectly legal ; if they were other-
wise there were plenty of -individuals perfectly ready to bring
those concerned in them to the bar of justice. They were,
however, not illegal.
Mr. HUME asked who said so?

Colonel PERCEVAL replied that he did—they were i„
no wise contrary to the law, and neither the declaration of
the Hon. Member for Middlesex, nor that of any one else,
should convince him that they were so, until the opinion of
the competent judges of the land had been given to that effect.
He wished that the motives and proceedings of all secret so-
cieties would bear the light as well as the Orange societies.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN thought that they ought to re-
quire the production of the book in question from the present
witness—( Hear)—but if he did not produce it, they ought
then to punish him for contempt. Tie course of sending to
his house to seize his papers was highly improper.
The House then divided, when there appeared
For the original motion ...... .
Against it
Majority for the motion

. 69
24
...-45

The question was then put, that Colonel Fairman be called
in and informed of the resolution to which the House had
come.

Colonel SIBTHORP hoped that it would go forth to the
country, that although the Right Hon. Gent. (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) had agreed to the amendment of the Hon.
Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford ( Sir R.
Inglis) the Hon. Gent. opposite had thought proper to oppose
it, and to affirm the original resolution ; and that the Noble Lord
the Secretary for the Home Department, knowing that that
agreement had been come to, and not wishing on that account
to be seen in the ranks of those supporting the original mo-
tion, had actually bolted out of the House.—( Laughter. )
Lood PALMERSTON said that was precisely the reason
for which he had withdrawn ; he had learnt that his Right
Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had expressed
an intention of acceding to the amendment, and not wishing to
be seen voting with the Hon. and Gallant Officer opposite, he
had withdrawn.

Mr. BORTH WICK said the Hon. Baronet the Member
for the University of Oxford, had left the House upon the
understanding that the amendment would be agreed to.
Sir E. CODRINGTON had not felt that he was bound
by any understanding to which the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer might come.
Mr. SHAW said that he for one would assert that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer declared, " I will not object to
the amendment." All then that they at his side of the House
maintained was, that it was a very unusual course to have a
declaration made by the leader of the House—(A cry of
" Oh I")—at all events by a leading Member of the Cabinet—
departed from. He never before knew an instance of Hon.
Members on the other side of the House going to a division
under similar circumstances.—( Hear.)

Mr. SCARLETT felt bound again to protest against the
dangerous principle which would be established by allowing
the private desk of an individual to be ransacked.
Mr. G. F. YOUNG declared, after the fullest considera-
tion which he was capable of giving the matter, that this book
had no claim whatever to the character of a private document.
—( Hear, hear.) He had therefore voted, and he should con-
tinue to vote, for a proposition which vindicated the right of the
House, for a refusal to observe which no invasion of a private
right could be urged as a justification.—( Hear.)
Mr. JACKSON begged to enter his protest in the strongest
manner against what, in his opinion, was a most unjust and
tyrannical proceeding.
After a few words from Mr. PEASE and Mr. C. PELHAM,
the question was then agreed to.
Col. Fairman having been called in,
The SPEAKER addressed him as follows—lt is my duty
to inform you that this House is of opinion that you should
produce the book which has been alluded to in your evidence,
and which you declined to produce before the Committee.
Without adverting to the foundations for that which you con-
sidered as a point of honour obligatory on yourself, I am con-
fident that you will feel that, when the House has come to th,_
resolution that you are bound to produce Olt book, you will
forthwith comply with the opinion of this House, because you
must be aware that your first duty, and one w hieh supersede:
all private and personal feelings of your own, is to yield
prompt obedience to the pleasure of this House. You may now
withdraw.

CONTRACTS.
Mr. WARBURTON, on the Order of the Day being read

for the House resolving itself into a Committee, moved the con-
sideration of the petition of Silas Pearse (presented on the 17th
of August), complaining of the conduct of Government, in
February last, in relation to a contract for the supply of lime-
stone to the Breakwater at Plymouth.
Lord ASHLEY was of opinion that so important a pro-
position ought not to be brought forward at that late period of
the session. Besides, the Gentleman (Mr. Dawson) who was
chiefly implicated in the charge against the late Government,
was now in Ireland, and could not be prepared to make any
defence before the proposed Committee in a shorter space of
time than ten days.
Mr. WARBURTON observed that there was quite suffi-
cient time to have this Committee appointed, and for Mr.
Dawson to attend it.

Mr. SHAW—Mr. Dawson could not be here in a week's
time. It was very probable that before he could come to Lon-
don Parliament would be prorogued. He was opposed, too,
to the appointment of a Committee at this late period of the
session, when it was almost impossible that one could be fairly
selected.

Mr. HUME expressed his surprise that when the malver-
sation of a public functionary was the question to be sub-
mitted to the consideration of the proposed Committee, the
Noble Lord opposite (Lord Ashley), during whose con-
tinuance in office, as one of the Lords of the Admiralty,
the ascribed breach of duty was said to have taken place,
should have objected to the motion of the Hon. Member for
Bridport. In his opinion the Lords of the Admiralty were
the most deeply interested in the investigation which it was
intended to institute before the Committee, for it was
scarcely possible that the Seeretary should have signed the
order which formed the subject of the petition which had al-
ready been presented without the assent of the Lords of the
Admiralty.—( Hear.)
_ _

Lord ASHLEY was certainly astonished that this subject
was not brought to an investigation at an earlier period of the
session. He would say now, however, that he was perfectly
willing to take all responsibility that could fairly be attached
to him on himself, and to abide by the decision even of the
Hon. Member for Middlesex as judge.—(Hear.)
Mr. WARBURTON had postponed his motion at an early
period of the session for a considerable time, in order to ac-
commodate the Noble Lord ( Ashley.)
Captain PE C HELL was old enough to recollect that on
one occasion Mr. J. Wilson Croker turned round on Sir
Joseph Yorke, and declared' that he, as Secretary, was only
the servant of the Admiralty. He did not think then, that
it was any ground for refusing the appointment of the Com-
mittee that the Secretary to the Admiralty was absent in Ire-
land, when the Lords of the Admiralty must be prepared to
meet the charges intended to be brought against them.
The House then divided, when there appeared
For the original motion
Against it

iz
Majority for the Committee --47
The following Committee was then appointed :
Mr. Warburton, Lord Ashley, Mr. Charles Wood, Lord Vis-
count Lowther, Admiral Addam, Mr. Alderman Thompson, Sir
Robert Price, Mr. G. F. Young, Mr. Wallace, Mr. G. R. Ro-
binson, Mr. Bonham Carter, Mr. Hawes, Mr. Thornely, Mr.
Barham.

REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the second reading of this Bill being moved,

Colonel PERCE VAL said that this-Bill declared in its
preamble that its object was to assimilate the practice in Ire-
Lend, e .eistration, to that pursued in Eng-l.nal.
Now, one decided and unnecessary deviation from the law as
established in England was, that in Ireland the power of ap-
pointing Revising Barristers was
,by this Act vested in the
Lord Lieutenant. In England that poWer was placed in the
hands of the Judges; and-so different was the principle in-
tended to he acted on in this respect in Ireland, that such a
variant .e in the practice of both countries must of itself re-
move the opinion which- might-be made on the minds of those
who were contented. with the. wording of the title of the Act.
He objected especially to the last clause, as altering the nature
of the beneficial interest, which had been settled by the Re-
form Bill. The measure might, by considerable alteration, be
made a good one ; hut it appeared to him to be much too late
in the session to enter upon such an undertaking.
Mr. O'CONNELL supported the Bill, and hoped it would
go unanimously into Committee. That some amendment in
the existing system was necessary was generally allowed. The
registry could not be in worse hands than those of the Revising
barristers. He strongly reprobated the interference of politi-
cal feeling with judicial functions in Ireland ; but it was a
good feature of the Bill that it gave the final appeal on the subject
to the Judges, instead of its being brought to that abominable
tribunal, which must soon' e abolished, an Election Committee
of the House of Commons. The alleged assimilation to
the practice of England, which the Gallant Colonel proposed,
would be in fact the very reverse of assimilation. He hoped
the Bill would be allowed to go into Committee, and that it
would be there rendered a perfect measure.
Mr. F. FRENCH hoped that the electors for counties in
Ireland would be allowed, as in England, to vote in districts.
He now knew instances in which tenants on his brother's es-
tate were obliged to go five and twenty miles to vote ; and in
the county of 'Tipperary the distances were still greater.
-Mr. SHAW denied that the Judges in Ireland were political
partisans. Not half of them agreed with his (Mr. Shaw's)
side of the House. The Hon. and Learned Member for Dub-
lin, with great inconsistency, however, praised the Bill because
it gave the final appeal to the Judges. He ( Mr. Shaw) con-
curred in the principle of the Bill, and would vote for its going
into a Committee ; in which, among other amendments, it was
his intention to propose that whereas the electors for the Uni-
versity of Dublin now paid it annually to keep their names on
the register, they should henceforward (the University being
sufficiently rich) pay 11. only once in seven years.
After some further discussion, the Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.

Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice, that on going into Com-
mittee, he would move to insert a clause to the effect " That
no person shall be allowed to remain in the registry as a free-
man in any city or borough in Ireland, admitted since 1831,
unless his right can be enforced in a court of law."
LANDED SECURITIES (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON moved the Order of the Day
for the House resolving itself into Committee on this Bill.
Mr. Sergeant L YNCH moved, as an amendment, that the
Bill be submitted that day six months.

Mr. Sergeant JACKSON defended the Bill which he had
introduced, in concurrence with the opinions of the principal
legal authorities in Ireland.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed the Bill. It
was an attempt to extend to Ireland the provisions of the most
mischievous measures that ever passed in that House.
Mr. O'CONNELL supported the Bill, as he thought ti.e
provisions of the measures to which it referred were extremely
injurious, and ought to be repealed.
Mr. PEASE said that whether he considered the ques-
tion in an Irish or an English point of view, he felt bound
to support the Bill.

Col. PERCEVAL opposed the Bill. He thought that
Irish trustees and Irish capitalists should be allowed to vest
their money in English securities.
Mr. Sergeant O'LOUGHLIN objected to the Bill, on the
ground that it was merely a partial repeal of the former Act.
Had it been a total repeal of that measure, he would have
supported it.
The House divided—

For the motion
For the amendment
Majority —2l
The Bill was consequently lost. The House resumed
and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
The Spirit Licences. Bill went through Committee.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, an,
the House adjourned at a quarter to One o' Clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.

ISLINGTON MARKET BILL.

(Before Lord Brougham, the Marquis of Salisbury, the
Earl of Devon, Earl of Radnor, Lord Bexley, Lord Cal-
thorpe, Lord Abingdon, the Bishops of Hereford and
Bristol.)
Lord BROUGHAM, as Chairman, took his seat on the
Woolsack.

At twelve o'clock Mr. Justice Littledale and Mr. Baron
Park entered. It was arranged that the opinion of the
Judges should be given on the remaining five questions sub-
mitted to them on the 15th of July last, with respect to the
Islington Market Bill.

Mr. Justice LITTLEDALE then proceeded to read the
said questions (which were given in our paper of July 15,
on which they had at the time delivered their opinions in
the affirmative on the first and second, requiring to con-
sider the remaining three.)
On these three the Learned JUDGE now said that they
were prepared to give their opinion, and that the ques-
tions Nos. 3 and 4 might be treated as one. (In read-
ing this opinion the Learned Judge addressed his voice
to the Woolsack, and the greater part of what he said
was inaudible at the bar.) This condensed question was,
in effect, whether a market, not confined by metes and
bounds, but generally being a market in the district of
Black-acre, would oblige the grantee to afford conve-
nience to buyers and sellers ; and in case he did not,
whether such a breach of public duty would operate as a
forfeiture, upon which a scire facias could be granted to abo-
lish the patent ? The Judges could not say whether the
grantee would not be liable to indictment for a misde-
meanour, and if so it would be a sufficient defence against
any action he might bring. The only consequence of this
was, that when the grant remained unrepealed, the incon-
venience did not operate in law as a justification for a grant
of a new market. As to the sth question which spoke of a
market without metes and bounds, a consideration arose
as to the quantity of land—as to whether the market could
be enlarged ? Now, if there were no power to enlarge the
space so occupied as a market, might the Crown take such
steps for a new market by issuing a writ of ad quod damnum
The Judges were of opinion that the new market could
not be granted to supply the surplus accommodation re-
quired by the public, but such an enlargement of the old
might be granted as would not be injurious to it.
Lord BROUGHAM said that the Judges bad given their
opinion that a grant from the Crown could not touch an
Act of Parliament, but the remedy sought was by a new
Act, which got rid of the difficulty. In fact, nothing was
more common than to deal with old Acts of Parliament in
this manner. The only question really for consideration
was whether certain right existed, and whether it was ex-
pedient to interfere with them by a new law. The best
foundation for a new Act is that there was no other way of
effecting the benefits sought to be conferred on the public.
It was, however, a question for compensation ; btit under

the view which the other House had taken of the matter
there might be some difficulty in arranging that point. This
would, however, be matter for future consideration.

The Earl of DEVON expressed his view of a difficulty
which arose in one part of the subject, which was, whether
it was not incumbent on the promoters of the measure to
do all in their power to put the law as it stands in force
with respect to the old market, and endeavour to make the
most of that limited space. It was a question whether the
space was so limited that nothing effectual could be done to
enlarge it by the owners.
Lord BROUGHAM said that it by no means followed that
the Committee were to take for granted that the facts as-
sumed in the questions submitted really existed. For what
he knew they might be quite contrary to the true state of
the case, but they were capable of proof.
The Marquis of SALISBURY thought the opinions of the
Judges must be taken to be fatal to the Bill in the present
session.

Lord BROUGHAM was concerned to hear that it was
understood the opinions of the Judges were conclusive
against the establishment of the new market. He knew
nothing of the provisions of the intended Bill except what
he gathered at the bar during the argument, having never
attended the private business before the Committee, as their
Lordships knew, and intentionally abstained from entering
on the business till it assumed a judicial shape. He did not
think that the Committee were bound by the assumption
of the illegality of the new measure, for the Bill might most
consistently be passed on the grounds of its necessity for
public purposes.
The Marquis of SALISBURY declared himself a supporter
of the Bill.

Lord BROUGHAM—As the Parliament would very soon
be either adjourned or prorogued, hoped it would be under-
stood they would begin the next year with the Bill where
they now left off.
____

The Earl of DEVON expressed his opinion that the Com-
mittee of next year were perfectly justified in taking the
evidence of this year as far as it had gone, without putting
the parties to additional expense.
Lord BROUGHAM said that this was the third time the
parties had come there. This was cruel. They ought to
treat both sides fairly.
After some further conversation it was agreed to report
thereon to-morrow night, and in the mean time to make no
order entry on the journals.
The House then adjourned during pleasure.

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS.

The proceedings in the House of Lords have
created the greatest sensation throughout the country.
At the meeting of St. Paul's, Covent-garden, yester-
day, and the meeting at Birmingham on Tuesday,
petitions were agreed on to the House of Commons,
entreating them to make a stand against the Lords.
The inhabitants of Loughborough have also met and
adopted a similer pie Hee. eisiion, signed by
500 inhabitant householders of Martin's-in-the-
Fields, has been presented, but the day of meeting is
not yet fixed. Meetings ate announced for the Ward
of Bishopsgate, for South Shields, Gateshead, Droghe-
da, Galway, Waterford, Carrick-on-Suir, &c. In short,
the whole country is now in movement. The Lords
may be said to be, in a great measure, strangers to
their fellow-countrymen ; and one of the evils insepa-
rable from this state of things is, that without strong
demonstrations of popular feeling, the Peers will never
believe that the people are in earnest. They were told,
during the struggle for the Reform Bill, that the
people were indifferent to that measure ; and such was
the strength of their delusion, that the whole country
was kept in constant agitation for months, to satisfy
their Lordships that the nation was not disposed to be
plundered by them in time to come, as they had been
plundered in by-gone times We sincerely believe that
many of their Lordships have been tempted to enter
on this insane contest with the nation, by a persuasion
that the people of England are no longer alive to their
liberties—that they regret the passing of the Reform
Bill, and fondly look back on the period when the
boroughmongers took on themselves the cares of legis-
lation, and holding the strings of the public purse.
But the Lords have played their part ; they have been
warned—repeatedly warned—of the danger of the
course they were pursuing, to no purpose. The qmrs-
tion which the people of England now ask is, how will
the Commons act ? The answer to this question must
depend on the opinion which therepresentative:; enter-
tain of the feelings of the people themselves. If there
be a representative who believes that the people look
with satisfaction on the present assumption, on time
part of the Lords, of a right to trample on the House
of Commons—that representative will of course be
disposed to crouch to the Peers, and to accept with
all humility as a boon, the Corporation Reform Bill
and any other important measure, however altered and
disfigured. But every representative who has any re-
spect for his constituents, and wishes to stand well in
their good opinion, must see that the time for hesita-
tion is past—that the Peers have passed the Rubi-
con—and that if the Commons do not now make a
stand, the Lords will for ever be in the ascendant.
Half measures and a wavering policy are always dan-
gerous at critical periods. The Lords have fairly
placed themselves in opposition to the Commons, and
afforded a demonstration that the two branches of the
Legislature cannot move together in harmony. The
tune is come for trying whether this state of things is
to be cured be the Commons yielding to the Lords, or
the Lords yielding to the Commons. Were the Re-
presentatives of the people to falter at this moment,
the whole country would arraign them of basely be-
traying their posts. A division among Reformers
would be certain victory to the Lords. There is no
division among the Lords, said the Duke of Welling-
ton, neither must there be any division among the
Commons. If the Representatives of the people he-
sitate, they are undone. In private life it is seldom found
politic to submit to encroachment ; for one encroach-
ment generally leads to others; and a prudent man, when
he finds that he must resist sooner or later, usually de-
termines at once what course he should pursue. In
public affairs there is less discretion than in private.
The Representatives of the people ought to consider
that the affairs of the nation are now committed to

them—that they have, therefore, a sacred duty to dis-
charge. If they falter at this time—if they prove
themselves timid or faithless guardians of the sacred
deposit, heavy will be their responsibility. We will
not libel the people by assuming that they are indif-
ferent to the struggle. We know that they are not.
W'e trust they will be spared, by the decided conduct
of their Representatives, the necessity of demonstra-
tions which might be incompatible with the ordinary
pursuits of the country. Of this, however, we are
sure, that any indecision on the part of the House of
Commons at this critical time—any appearance of a
victory of the Lords over the people—any resignation
to the most wanton and capricious exercise of power
ever known in the history of legislation, must be a pro-
lific source of calamity to the country. The time has
come when, for the sake of the peace of the country,
it must be determined whether the English are to be
a free people, or once more the slaves of a Borough-
mongering Oligarchy. Were the people to submit to
such a rule, they would become the scorn of the civi-
lized world. But the very supposition is an insult.
The people will not tamely abandon their rights ; and
they expect their Representatives to stand by them.—
Morning Chronicle.
The danger of legislating on false or defective data,
or what is about equally imprudent, on no data what-
ever, or what indeed is worse than all, of legislating
upon the dishonest speculation of what may turn out
most profitable to the views and purposes of a political
faction, was, as we observed yesterday, pretty clearly
shown by Lords Haddington and Lyndhurst on Mon-
day evening, when grounds were stated by both their
Lordships for gravely condemning the operation of the
Scotch Municipal Reform Bill, as well from the effects
which had actually flowed from it in the important city
of Glasgow, where men of character and independence
had been thrown out of the Corporation, and bankrupts
and paupers been substituted for them, as from the
opinions adverse to the principles of the Bill, which had
been delivered by respectable Whig lawyers, acting as
Commissioners of Inquiry into the Scotch Corpora-
tions, but which opinions, unfortunately, had not been
obtained until a very recent period—that is to say,
two years after the Bill, which ought, properly speak-
ing, to have been founded on them, had become the
law of Scotland. Another amendment, moved by
Lord Lyndhurst in the English Corporate Reform
Bill on Monday, has made a considerable sensation.
The effect of it was, first, to perpetuate the office of
alderman ; and second, to prolong the interest of the
individual in the office to the period of his natural
life. Now, as we have never, from the beginning, had

any motive for the concealment of what we thought
and felt respecting this very important Bill, nor ever
refrained from the expression of it, we will take the
liberty, and. not for the first time, to question the
policy of this last amendment, creating aldermen for
life. Lord Brougham's Bill of 1833 enacted, in the
most distinct terms, That the office of alderman should be
for life. But if we were then, as we always have been,
extremely sceptical with regard to such a regulation,
it is clear that the adoption of it by Lord Brougham
would have added little to our confidence in its utility
or justice. The undue longevity of power in the same
individual, where there are serious trusts and duties to
be executed, is almost equivalent to self-election—that
especial and prevailing vice which it has been the re-
, cognized object of the Municipal Reform Bills to era-
dicate. lie who holds for life is divested of all
that species of responsibility which turns on the fear
of being out-voted another time. To seat any portion,
therefore, of the members of a common council high
and dry in arm-chairs, without the least fear of ex-
pulsion while they live, seems inconsistent with the
declared principle of this Bill, which is no other than
free election. It may be said that the House of
Peers is a little responsible. This is a mistake : the
Lords, as great proprietors, have the strongest in-
terest in doing nothing which shall incite popular cla-
mour, but the mere dispensers of funds . not their
own, are subject to no control, if elected for life.
We are the more frank in . avowing our doubts
upon this question, because of our entertaining
an impression to the full as strong against the
inexpediency of annual re-elections and against
making three years the maximum term for every
member of a Corporation, as against the essential ir-
responsibility of a municipal office held for life. Why
not take a middle course, and name seven years as the
interval between two elections for aldermen ? That
would afford stability sufficient, and with it would main-
tain some useful check upon the vagaries of selfishness
and corruption. It might also be provided that no in-
dividual should hold the office of alderman after he
passes the chair. This would secure to him a fair
and reasonable object of ambition, and for an honour-
able termination of his aldermanic functions ; he
might also, if the election followed, be re-chosen. The
consequence of such a rule would be, the election of
one alderman every successive year. Upon the
grounds above enumerated, we should rejoice to find
the alteration of Monday last reconsidered on bringing
up the Report of the Committee. It will be becoming
in the House of Lords to give the Ultra-Radicals of
the Commons as little excuse or pretence as may be
fur ta.king any violent course against the measure on its
final return to that assembly.—Times.
Both upon principle, and as admirers of consistency,
we must say that, approving as we do, the amendment
introduced into the Municipal Reform Bill by the
Lords, requiring a certain qualification in persons who
are hereafter to be elected Magistrates or Members of
To;vn Councils, it is not less fit that if there are any
such persons now holding office not so qualified, that
they ought to cease so to be. In a few words, that
what is considered to be right for the future members,
should be imperative upon the present. A contrary
principle, or rather practice, is, we believe, much too
general ; and even Members of the Legislature are not
unfrequently known to possess merely a temporary qua-
lification, sufficient to justify their election and the
oath which they are required to take, and which they
afterwards return to the friendly hand which thus ena-
bles them to comply with the letter, while they violate
the spirit of the Statute. In regard, therefore, to these
Town Councillors and Aldermen, we should be inclined
to go further than the Lords have suggested. We
should require the qualification not only for all present
and future Members, now and at the time of their
election; but its decided continuance, and that when-
ever, from bankruptcy or other causes, a person hold-
ing either of these offices ceases to possess the qualifi-
cation, he should ipso fizclo cease also to keep the
office. The eitiz,.ms of London have long had before
their eyes striking instances of the necessity of such a
regulation as this, and Parliament, now that it has the
opportunity, will not do its duty if it neglects to remedy
so obvious a defect.--Morning Herald.

Grouse shooting commenced on Wednesday last.
Generally speaking, birds are plentiful and very strong on
the wing.—Leeds Intelligencer.
CAPTAIN BACK.—We learn from the Montreal
Gazette that George Simpson, Esq., the Governor of the
Hudson's Bay Company, arrived on the 14th ult. at Laclime,
from the interior, accompanied by J. D. Cameron, Esq., one
of the wintering partners of the concern. These gentlemen
brought favourable reports of the state of the country—it was
remarkably healthy, and the Indians peaceable and well-dis-
posed. When in the interior Mr. Simpson received a letter
from Captain Back, dated at Fort Reliance, near the Great
Slave Lake, the 7th of December last. The Gallant Officer
and his whole party were, at the date of writing, in the enjoy-
ment of good health and spirits. Captain Back was expected
down early in the season on his return to England.
Thursday night, the house of Lady Louisa Harvey,
at Chigvvell,- Essex, was robbed of the following property :
A French gold clock, set in blue imitation china, with the
names " Howell and James" on the dial ; one shell stand for
phosphorus, with gold boxes on each side ; a green and gold
pen-handle, tipped with a white cornelian stone, engraved with
a stag ; a gold and black pen-handle ; several gold seals—one
a red cornelian, with crest of a bull's head, and arms three
gauntlets, motto " Ne vile Fano ;" one gold seal, with white
cornelian, engraved "J. M. H. ;" some of the seals have for
arms three crescents, and for crest a hand trying to touch the
moon; a gold ring, with a red cornelian seal, engraved with
a horse ; a silver seal, engraved " L. H.," having a mother-
o'pearl handle ; a silver figure of Neptune, ten inches high,
with an oval agate cup on his head ; a gilt cup, mounted on
a flat black marble slab; and a small silver chased candlestick.
DESTRUCTIVE FIRE IN BERMONDSEY.—Last
night great destruction of property by fire took place on the
extensive premises of Messrs. Husband aid Co., leather-cur-
riers and skin-.dyers, Long-acre, Bermondsey, which for a
time placed the neighbourhood in great danger. A labouring
man, who was passing down Staple-street, at the back of the
premises, discovered smoke issuing from the back warehouses,
and in a few seconds the flames burst forth with great fury.
A strong body of the M division of police hastened to the spot,
and in a few minutes the London Establishment engine, from
Union-street, arrived, followed by the West of England and
several others, by which time an abundant supply of water was
obtained, and the damage was confined to Messrs. Husband's
premises. The stock and buildings are consumed. They are
insured. How the fire commenced is not known. Fortunately
no lives were lost. A desperate gang of thieves from Camber-
well fair was in attendance, but the police prevented them
from committing any depredations.

DETERMINED SUICIDE. OF A BOY.--An inquest
was yesterday held at the Clerkenwell Workhouse, on the view
of the body of George Leverett, aged eleven years. The de-
ceased boy was an inmate of the workhouse, and having ab-
sconded, was, on being brought back, punished by the school-
master, who had caused a log to be affixed to his leg, and the
inscription " Runaway" to be fastened on his back. The boy
said that sooner than wear it he would kill himself, and going
to the schoolmaster's desk, he seized hold of a penknife, and
thrust it into his throat, turning round the handle at the same
time. A medical gentleman having been called in to exa-
mine the wound, found that the upper part of the windpipe
was penetrated, and that some of the arteries near the root of
the tongue were cut. Feeling satisfied, from the quantity of
blood in deceased's mouth, that the hemorrhage was descend-
ing into his lungs and stomach, he did all that he could to
stop it; but his efforts proved of no avail, and he died at eight
in the evening, from the internal bleeding. The Jury, after
an investigation, which lasted upwards of five hours, returned
a verdict of " Temporary Insanity" declaring, at the same
time, that they did not consider any blame to be attached to
the parish authorities. On the boy's coming of age, he would
have been entitled to a sum of between 2001. and 3001.

- -
THE LATE TRAGICAL OCCURRENCE AT KINS-
BURY-GREEN, NEAR EDGEWARE.—FUNERAL OF THE FOUR
YOUNG GENTLEMEN (BROTHERS) WHO PERISHED.—On Satur-
day morning, about half-past ten o'clock, the bodies of the four
brothers were removed from the farm of Mr. Warner, Black-
pot-hill, in two hearses, to the residence of their father at
Mount Pleasant. On it being known that the removal was to
take place a number of the inhabitants assembled to witness the
melancholy ceremony. The eldest who perished, Mr. Charles
Radcliffe Sidebottom, was by a former wife, consequently only
half-brother to the three other youths. He was a convey-
ancing Barrister, and a gentleman of great accomplishments.
He had lately returned from the West of England on a visit
to his family. The remaining branches of the family consist of
four daughters and two sons. The interment of the four ill-
fated young gentlemen took place yesterday in the interior of
Kinsbury Church. Previous to the melancholy accident Mr.
Sidebottom had no place of burial in the parish, and in conse-
quence a large vault was constructed by Mr. Chandler, of
Church End, Hendon. Four hearses and three mourning
coaches formed the procession ; in the latter were the relatives
and fri=ends of the larr ented deceased brothers. The feeling
and sympathy which was evinced on the afflicting occasion was
of the most intense description. So acute has been the grief
of Mr. Sidebottom that he was totally incapacited from attend-
ing the last mournful obsequies of his departed children, Dr.
Foote having been in attendance upon him almost without an
interval since the unfortunate catastrophe. The funeral was
attended by nearly the whole of the gentry and respectable in-
habitants of Kinsbury and the adjacent parts, and from the sin-
gularly unprecedented nature of the calamity more than usual
awe and solemnity were attached to the ceremony.