The Sun.
London, England, 1866-05-15 00:00:00

etatement he had made the other night with respect to Reigate, which you propose to disfranchise. (Cheers.) But
lotteries. He then stated that the common informer had our attention has been directed to a question which at this
power to initiate a prosecution. He found that the Act of moment is even more interesting than even Parliamentary
1843 had taken away that power ; therefore his statement reform or the question of peace or war, and that is our
on that point was incorrect. monetary state. It is a subject which w.ll probably be
REDISTRIBUTION OF SEATS BILL,
under our discussion very shortly, and the opinions of
very
fmen
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-
-1 of great experience will be received by the house wit
CHEQUER that this bill be read a second time great interest upon the matter. I see before me a gentleman
Mr. DISRAELI, who was received with loud cheers,
who, if he is not at this moment, was formerly Governor of
said—Sir, when the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor the Bank of England. He was, I believe I may say, one of
of the Exchequer introduced this bill to the notice of the the
house, he favoured us with the views of her Majesty's 1
placb:stdoGwoveeorwnoer h
his
partetshe enceßainnk ertheivshouse what
? The
small
Government with respect to the subject of small boroughs. borough of Bridport, which you certainly. propose to dis -
franchise. But I will ihllaneottake my instancesaefn.tiredly from
According to the views of her Majesty's Government those
the opposite side.belowthegangwayaseat
in
nritehnis whom
boroughs are not really liable to the charge that has so fee- the
quently been made against them, while, on the other hand, lone admirably
1 and he is looked upon as .
every one acknowledgesv shoud heve
fitted fora place in
one of the merits that has usually been alleged in their
1 this assembly—not on account of hisgreat wealth, although
favour was, according to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, - him as the prince of. British merchants, but
not deserved. With regard to the first point—namely, the iwe recognise t f his character, integrity, and intelligence. He
On accaun 0 imputation of bribery, her Majesty's Government are of
opinion, and I entirely agree with them, that no charge es his presence in this house to the small borough of
oHwuntin don, which you propose to disfranchise. lam of
opinion that men in the position of the Governor of the
can be made against the small boroughs par on
oßpank of England should always be members of the House
that head. Unfortunately, it is nut only the small boroughs
of Commons. I have had some experience of the advantage
the country that are open to the imputation of venality
election matters. On the contrary, we know very well
that in the large proportion of small boroughs the elections of communication with Governors and Deputy-Governors
are conducted in a manner very creditable to their reputa-
of the Bank, to whom I owe much. Then we have another
considerable colony at this moment, whose fortunes may be
tion. No doubt there are some small boroughs in which a
portion of the constituency are affected by the same im- 1 brought under the consideration of the House of Commons
at any time ; and how important it is that we should have
proper influences that prevail in some of the larger
boroughs. But that is an exercise of bribery which, how- a representative here who, commandingrespectfulattention
ever it be deprecated and deplored, is an evidence of a con- from his local experience, would rise in his place and advise
flirt of opinion. There are, unquestionably, cases of small the house on any matters of importance. Such represen-
boroughs in which it has been proved to the satisfaction tatives are invariably returned by small boroughs. Iwould
of this house that venality has been organised and has been now call your attention to one of the most important points
generally exercised, but the house has never met with in the subject, viz., the representation of India. One cause
any difficulty in dealing with such cases. Long before of the present deficiency in this respect is the loss of a Mi-
the reform of the House of Commons, the instance of nister whose absence I think we must all deplore. He had
Grampound, among others, showed that our predecessors not, perhaps, all these qualities which enable a man to
control a popular assembly ; but every man must acknow-
ledge that for
were perfectly able to deal with such cases, and St. Al-
bans and Sudbury in our own time have furnished similar administrative capacity and experience few
menare equal examples. I shall not refer to the conduct of constituen-to Lord Halifax. He was perfect master of
the business of the great departments of the State, and I
cies now under judicial inquiry, beyond expressing a hope
that in the case of any constituency, where the charges have rarely met any man who was his equal in quickness of
made against it before a committee of the House of Com_ perception. (Hear, hear.) Unfortunately, we have lost him;
mons are satisfactorily proved before the tribunal ap- but when he was here the advice he gave us showed that he
pointed to investigate them, the precedents of Grampound, was completely master of his subject. And how desirable
St. Albans, and Sudbury will not be forgotten, and that it is that We should have men in this house as to whom,
we shall not see placed at the head of one of these new whether we look to theirinformation or judgment, weknow
groups of boroughs a town which ought to be provided the moment they rise to enter into an Indian debate that
for in a very different and in a less honourable manner. their information is accurate and their judgment sound. I
(Cheers.) With regard to the second point—the alleged remember some who have been very much looked up to in
merits of the small boroughs, to which the Chancellor of this respect—Sir James Hogg, Sir John Willoughby, and
the Exchequer believes they are not entitled—l well ye- Mr. Prinsep. Sir James Hogg was member for Honiton,
collect the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in which you propose to disfranchise ; Sir James Willoughby.
1859 on the subject of small boroughs, a speech which we, was member for Leominster, which you propose to dis-,
of course, all listened to with gratification, but which, I franchise ; and Mr. Prinsep was member for Harwich,
must say for myself, I heard with some degree of amaze-
which you propose to disfranchise. (Hear.) These are
went. It appeared to me, indeed, to be the echo, very elo-
very important facts, and the house should consider them
quently expressed, of the debates of 1832, which upon that seriously. I have, perhaps, less interest in the matterthan
subject were merely traditions of the 18th
century. I would any other member of this house. Ido not owe my outset
not attempt in any way to vindicate the small borough in public life to small boroughs, nor is there any probable
Prospect of my seeking refuge in them in the future.
system,because these small boroughs have been the means
(
of introducing into the House of Commons a Pitt, a Fos, (Laughter.) Nor do I think the county with which I have
and a Canning. Ina free country and under a popular the honour to be connected has any special interest in this
constitution such men as Pitt, Fox, and Canning will particular system of small boroughs. But I wish to offer
always, I believe, find a place
ono point to the house for its consideration. When we find
in this assembly. (Cheers.) -
thato the
attributescomplete representation of this country in its But I cannot help thinking that the view which her Ma-
der
the
boroughs, should we not very care-
and, ofs appears to have greatly depended upon
va-
jesty's Government have taken of the system of small
rithillas systemc.
ifonsi
ef steps which are taken in regard to it ?
boroughs is one of too contracted and meagre a character,
fTulehluysLurdou ther destroy or greatly qualify their privilege
and, as I believe that he a right appreciation of the ques-
tion very important consequences are involved, I would
take this opportunity, without trespassing too long upon at least supply some adequate substitute. That
is the only point which I wish to impress upon you.
the house, of begging the house most deliberately and se-
tensively
riously to reflect upon the subject and the consequences (liaar) Well, by this bill it is proposed to deal very ex-
with this small borough system. The measure
ex-
involved. Now I apprehend, or will at all events accept,
that the real cause of all these Reform Bills. which have proposes to disfranchise 71 seats. The assertion that the
been introduced since the passing of the great measure of disfranchisement is not complete is simply a quibble ;
1832 has been to render this house a more complete repre- it is a disfranchisement in disguise. (Hear, hear.)
sentation of the country and of its various attributes. It is Virtually you are reducing small boroughs by one moiety,
not difficult, it requires no profound or adroit statesmanship for I take it that small boroughs may be set down as be-
to secure for the great conflicting interests of this country tween 150 and 160. The reasons given for taking these
an ample and a satisfactory representation. The counties seats are two. The first is that representation should be
of England offer to the land with its various products and given to communities that have developed their strength
with its accumulated capital a natural and an easy mode of since the Reform Bill was passed. I entirely concur with
being represented in Parliament. The chief seats of in- her Majesty's Government in that. I acknowledge that since
dustry furnish distinguished men in more than sufficient 1832 we have had come into existence communities which
numbers to represent the wealth, the ingenuity, and the in population, character, and property are worthy of direct
representation in this house ; and it is wise to give it to
skill of the great seats of oar manufactures. Perhaps the
mode by which a merchant may get into this house is not them. We have a list of such boroughs in the bill before ,1
altogether so easy and obvious. But still we know that us ; it is not very considerable in extent, and does not vary
there are and that there must always be influential constitu- much from one which I recommended to your consideration
encies connected with the commerce and navigation of the seven years' ago. I only regret that they have been denied
that seven years' representation in Parliament. But howls
country to whom a merchant of eminence may appeal with
confidence for support. But there are a variety of interests that representation to be effected ? Should it be effected,
in England and connected with England, not only various in the first instance, by adding to the number of members
but very important and even material interests, which can- of this house ? I decline, Sir, upon this occasion, to
not be ranged under either of the three heads of land, give any definite opinion upon that point, because it is a
manufactures, or commerce. There are a variety of very complicated question. It has never been properly dis-
important trading interests of that character, there are also cussed in this house, and it would lead us into discussions
classes which are considerable in point of education and en- foreign to the general subject of this debate. It is a moot
lightenment, and of their influence on that public opinion point, and it is desirable that we should leave it et present.
which ultimately regulates the affairs of this country—l But there is a way by which representation can be given to
mean the professional classes, and in employing that term those boroughs without increasing the number of the mem-
Ido not refer merely to the learned professions, one of bers of this house, and that is by decreasing the represen-
which cannot sit in this house and another won't—and al- tative powers of existing boroughs. Ido not mean to say
though I should deplore the time when we had not in our that that can be done upon any principle. It can only be
done up-in grounds which theYenetians described as "rea-
active legislation a sufficient number of gentlemen of the
long robe, and should regret our ever having an indoctum sons of State ;" and actions from reasons of State should be
Parliarnentuin, I mean there are, besides the interests I have had recourse to with reserve, and only in order to effect an
referred to, other classes who in the present day carve out end universally acknowledged to be beneficial. I thick we
their own fortunes and obtain their incomes by the appli- are perfectly justified under the circumstances in following
cation of science to affairs of every day life, like the great the course which, by-the-by, we ourselves were prepared to
body of civil engineers and others, by whom I mean men pursue in 1859, and curtail what we may call the redundant
of letters, men who pursue the liberal arts as a profession. representation of some boroughs in order to complete and
But besides all these, we are to recollect that England is Perfect the representation of others. The first object for
the metropolis of a great colonial empire, that she is at the which thisgreatrevolution is proposed is to secure represen-
head of a vast number of colonies, the majority of which are tation for those communities the propriety of whose appear-
yearly increasing in wealth, and that every year these cold- ante in this house no one questions. I entirely concur in
vies send back to these shores theircapital and their intelli- that proceeding, and in saying that I believe I express the
gence in the persons of distinguished men who are naturally feeling of the house. But-the Government propose this
anxious that those interests should be represented in the great change for another object. It is not merely to give
House of Commons. And last, and perhaps the greatest representatives to those places which are not represented,
above all, there is our great Indian empire. It was always but to add representatives to places which are already re-
the boast of this country that that distant, extensive, and presented. Many of the great towns and cities are to re-
gorgeous appanage was always represented in the House of ceive another member. For example, three members are to
be given to Leeds, three to Manchester, and three each to
Commons, and that no question could arise without the
house, from the very bosom of its members, and not merely a considerable number of other towns and counties. Well,
from official sources, being able to command the assistance this involves a new principle in the management of our re-
and information of men who enjoy the means of obtaining
presentation, and that principle is plurality of representa-
accurate knowledge, and of forming the soundest judg-
tion. I think, however, it is to be looked upon with some
meats upon the matter. While we are, therefore, upon the
doubt and suspicion. I do not see how it is consistent with
second reading of the Bill for the Redistribution of Seats, our electoral system, for it recoils from plurality of voting.
I wish to ask in what way these various interests and indi-
That a man should have only one vote is, I think, a right
viduals are to be represented in the House of Commons if principle. If our constituencies, for example, were founded
you have not the small borough system, or some substitute upon the rights of man, or upon the rights of numbers, I
for it. (Hear.) Let the house observe how the present could easily understand that you must immediately defend
system practically operates. A county member, as a gene-
the minority ; and
.I. do not know that there is any more
ral rule, must be a resident. It is not merely that it is the obvious or easy method of doing so than to establish plu-
custom of the country, but it is a practice which arises from rality of voting. In fact, .1 have always helJ that if you
went as far as universal suffrage, or if you submitted to
the necessities of the case. The representative duties of a
any very considerable extension of the franchise, plurality
county member are not confined to this house. They are
also local and continuous, and therefore it is most natural of voting would be a necessary consequence. But, if you
that men for such offices will elect their neighbours and establish your constituencies on the principles that hitherto
those who live among them. The Same feeling has of late have been accepted and connected with the Constitution of
this country, if you look upon your constituency as a poll-
years been equally characteristic of our great towns and
tical body or order, numerous and various, very numerous
cities. They have increased so much in population, in
wealth, in education, and in intelligence, and they are able and very various, I hope, but select, then Ido not think
to find in their own community men capable of representing you can have plurality of voting. Then men should be
them in this house, and who possess not only the requisite equal. The elector with £50,000 a year should have his
knowledge and education but the still rarer gift which be- vote, just as the elector of the West Riding who lives upon
fore they could not command—leisure. This feeling is be- his 30s. a week. The law of England recognises, and I hold
coming so strong generally that you will find it prevails to nobly
recognise; equality not of the man but of the political
agreat extent in all our considerable towns and cities. I citizen, who is invested with duties and responsibilities for
always watch with interest the proceedings of general the public good. I know it will be said that an elector with
elections, and during the last three general elections I £50,000 a year has a great deal more influence than the
have observed this characteristic—that the local feeling
elector who lives upon 30s. a week; he has the influence
is perpetually developing itself, and that in great
numbers which results from his good fortune and from his social
of constituencies where it was previously influential it has positions Ido not den that he possesses that influence,
now become entirely predominant. (Cheers.) What is and I say. that he ought to have it. But does not the city of
the practical consequence of all this ? The Rouse of Manchester, when compared with one of the smallboroughs
i y
Commons is really shut out from all the consider- represented in this house, also possess the extraordinary
influence which the man of £50,000 a year has ? The cintar of
able materials which are not ranged under the heads
of land, manufactures, and commerce, from all the Manchester has only two members, and the borough of Ilyitr
has only nlyt misbearsss.aillefd,, hnorwiseviner,dathnegnirn,teitreisstnootf
professional classes now growing daily more influential
wthiocilci Manchesterwo ra e
the two members who rise to support it, it is • "
than they were, and from the due representation
of our colonial interests. These are very serious considera-
the house before hundred members, who a score, it es a
tions, and they must be well weighed by are directly or indirectly interested
the machinery in or connected
they consent to destroy or greatly change
been attained terest of the boroughwith Manchester. (Hear, hear.) If the in-
by which so desirable a result has hithertoHarwich
aarletvitcloh is assailed, what method squall equally pens ? We all know that
without, at all events, substituting
some
htth is not commences, one of the member.t forbefore public business
..h . Harwich rise; with
efficacious. Now the house must remember t a
representations from that bo
ambition or roue , and though his argu-
e question as to whether the pride, the vanity,
.7 .
meats be perfectly irref
indi- utable and his statements as per-
even the interests of particular classes and particular .
spicuous as amountain lake et k
viduals should be gratified. The presence of these men 111
by loud cries of " Divide," a,nyd
anyoimu now how they are met
but their shout of " Ques-
this house may confer importance upon them,
tion." (Cheers and laughter.) Thisnientsehe way these un-
presence is equally important to the house itself. (Hear,
fortunate men, while vindicating the s'
rights and interests of
hear.) What I desire is to see these interests and these
are assailed
their constituents, ; and then we are told that
views adequately represented, for depend it we shall
d,upon
,_ in the House of Commons Manchester and Harwich hay©
lose our influence if we are only represented by landlords
only the same degree of influence. (Cheers.) Why, mem_
and merchants. The question is •
, therefore which cony
cerns the House of Commons on©
bers are sent to this house to represent opinions and not
as much or even more than
numbers. (ilea; hear.) Is it at all necessary to represent
the interests of the particularclasses
land individuals to
your opinions and even advocate your interests, that you
whom I have referred. (Cheers.) liowant for a moment
should have a troop of representatives ? There is a consti-
to put this question as to the influence of smell boroughs
Practically before the house. I won't ' lunacy quite as great as that of the West Riding since its
routine about Mr. Pitt, Mr. Fee, and
Mr. Canning.
in the old
division, and with a population scarcely less than the popn..
bring you to the world in which we live, and I will
lationof South Lancashire when its boroughs have been de-
form your opinions from instances and examplesas youd to
ducted—the Tower Hamlets; and I ask most sincerely, is
from daily life. For example, I see before me a rlawnt there constituent in this house more ably represented
any con y
gentleman, a man acknowledged to possess brilliantgagallant 0 ? (Cheers.) That
ae_ , than the Tower Hamlets, by one ma
comPlishrnents and attainments, but who Upon one subject 1 hon. gentleman is always in his place, and one of the most
—his knowledge of the East—is perfectly unrivalled. If ' valuable and indefatigable attendants in our committees ;
to-morrow the affairs of Persia,dior any
queshtion connected and when any questions connected with the interests of his
with Central Asia, came under scussion e is precisely constituents are raised, which are most complicated and
se would look for advice • and it
the man to whom the house ,
hat he should have a
is most advisable, therefore, t
atel he sits on t h eseoatthienr ihnegeeeral debates on subjects both interesting and important
this house, although, unfortun y,
manglnveere his opinions and enunciates his arguments in a
he has been sent by the
side. But why is he here? Because
e moing to disfran quite • which commands respect. (Hear, hear.) It is
which you are _ ridulous to ask for numbers to guard the interests
small borough of Promo, of an
, y community, for as l
chile.
UER —We do continues they are lon as the present arrangement
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCEEQ
the consequence if perfectly safe. (Hear.) What would be
You were topursue not propose to touch Frome. you are laying e„,3.? You the principles which
touched in
• it was
Mr. DISRAELI—I beg your pardon 7 monotony in this must necessarily
have great
, but, at any house. (He
the first list which came into my possession •
the principle that the populatiar, hear.) If you once adopt
ent —for to
rate, the correction will not invalidate my
argument—for
hon. and only to be considered in apportolai.id property of places are
what place were we first indebted for sending the . stop at three, and the small constituenciesnuigmelabers, you cannot
of
gallant gentleman among us ? It was the ,small borough
may be, by de-
_