The Sun.
London, England, 1866-06-05 00:00:00

that occasion the right honourable gentleman (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) informed his honourable
friend that as long as the bill stood they (the Government;
stood ; and when the bill fell they. would fall. He wished
to know distinctly whether the Government intended tc
go into committee adhering to that determination. (Hear,
hoar.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sail that if
the Government altered or modified certain intentions it
was their duty to come down and make known the
change to the house. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.)
If the Government, therefore, had changed or
modified any declaration they had made, he should, or
the part of the Government, have at once openly informee
the house of the matter. (Hear, hear.) The Government
would not have waited until a fact was extracted
from them by hostjle questions to have made the country
acquainted with the fact. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.)
The adjourned debate on the amendment of the hon.
member for Wells to the Raform Bill was then resumed by
Lord J. MANNERS who criticised the bill in detail;
and:predicted failure ; and, further, the noble lord said
he looked upon the bill not as a measure of reform, but a
revolution of the existing election system. He thought
the attempt of the Government to pass the bill, accom-
panied by that for a redistribution of seats, this
session an impossibility, the more so as they had
already reached the month of June, and the bill had
not yet reached committee.
Earl GROSVENOR said he should give his vote on this
question in favour of the Government. Referring to the
resolution he had moved on the Franchise Bill, he said that
the object which he had then in view, whatever may have
been the object of others, was attained by the fusion of the
Franchise and Redistribution Bills; and the Government
was now responsible for their future conduct. He did not
think the Franchise Bill the best possible bill, while the
Redistribution Bill was crude, undigested, and anomalous;
and he did not understand why the Government had not
followed the precedents of the bills of 1859 and 1860 in
Sbn
to d,
a
regard to the re-arrangement of seats. Still
was
ahe pressed felt bound,
if the amendment of Captain n
division, to vote against it; though he thought that it
would be advisable that the amendment should not be
pressed. If he voted for the amendment he might contri-
bute to the defeat of the Government, against which he
had no hostility, but in whose policy ho had a general
confidence, and of a bill which he should feel at liberty
to attempt to amend in committee. He was of opinion
that by remoulding these measures might perhaps be
shaped into a settlement of the question of reform ; but
caus
rhree
da ls
with believed iiesvoe
wd
nt,htahta
tthi
te
wopinion
sosfi
bre et
hcaotutnhtery these
ell
s
could pass this session, he appealed to the Government to
postpone their further consideration till next year.
Mr. B. OSBORNE was not sorry that the noble lord
the
member for Chester had first caught the Speaker's eye, be-
cause it was always an interesting spectacle to observe the
reconciliation of friends. (A laugh.) the quarrels of lovers
it was said was the renewal of love ; and although he (Mr.
Osborne) condoled with the inhabitants of that cave which
might now be said to have shrunk to the dimensions of a
grotto—(laughter) —and although he thought that the
speech of the noble lord had but proved his adroitness in
looking one way and rowing another, yet it was an agree-
able spectacle to see a man of his ability and character re-
turning to the tanks of that patty of which he formed so
distinguished an ornament (Cheers.) In considering the
question before the house he (Ur. Osborne) was more than
ever convinced that the present Parliament was about to
treat Reform very much in the same manner that it had
been treated by other Parliaments in previous sessions.
There appeared to be no difference of opinion as to the ne-
cessity of an extension of the franchise and a redistribu-
tion of seats ; but whenever a bill to effect these objects
was brought in by the right hon. gentleman the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer hon. gentlemen attacked it not only
with the minutest criticism, but with the most hos:,ile con-
demnaticn ; and yet not a single member of the house, not
even the right hon. gentleman the member for Caine, sub-
mitted a direct negative in opposition to the measure. (Hear,
hear, and cheers.) That was a most peculiar condition for
the question of Reform to have got into. There was no
quarrel as to the necessity of something being done—the
only dispute was as to who was to constructthe bilL (Hear.)
Reform, in fact, was very much in the situation of Cin-
derella. In previous sessions who so neglected—who so
despised ? Suddenly she put on the guise of an heiress
and the only quarrel between this party and that was, as to
who should measure her for the glass slipper. (Laughter.)
But what was likely to occur ? Why, with those protracted
discussions and various amendments, she seemed likely to
vanish in the midnight of August, and go back to the dusty
retirement and dirty attics of Downing-street. (Renewed
laughter.) That would evidently be the fate of Reform.
And whose fault was it ? Was it the fault of her Majes-
ty's Government ? He certainly was not a supporter of
the Ministry, but he would be wanting in that candour
which should be the distinguishing characteristic of every
public man if he did not on this occasion say that her Ma-
jesty's Ministers were not to blame. (Cheers.) What was
the present position of affairs ? The position of what was
called the great Liberal party was excessively puzzling, and
the position of the Government excessively critical. What
had been the occaaion of all that ? He had always under-
stood that the recent general elections had returned to the
new Parliament a ma jority of upwards of 70 Liberals to
support the Ministry. All of them pledged to retrench-
ment, and most of them panting for reform. (Laughter.)
What had become of this great majority ? (Hear, hear,
from the Opposition.) He could not help thinking that
originally there must have been some error on the part of
the returning officers. He did not believe that such a ma-
jority ever existed. He thought, moreover, that the Govern-
ment had been guilty of a grave mistake in not having felt
the pulse of the house, at least for ono session, before so
rashly committing themselves to a Reform Bill ; before so
heedlessly taking it for granted that these 70 panting Libe-
rals were going to give them their support. (Laughter and
cheers.) The Chancellor of the Exehequer might now pa-
raphrase the old fable. He could truly say, "I returned to
the home of my birth, and I said, The friends of reform

where are they, and echo answered, Where ? " (Renewed
laughter.) How had this occurred ? Had it been brought
about by the enemies of reform? No, it had not been
occasioned by the malice of opponents, but by the extra-
ordinary zeal of the supporters of the Government.
(Hear, hear.) It had been brought about by one in pat dcu-
lar, " mine own familiar friend"— (laughter) - and not a
familiar friend only, but almost one of the family, viz., the
right hon. the member for Kilmarnock. That gentleman
came down to the house and urged the Ministry to unite
their bills in a comprehensive, incomprehensible amalga-
mation. (Renewed laughter.) Ivan evil moment the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer yielded to the proposal, and the
effect wo'ild probably be that the Franchise Bill would be
withdrawn as soon as the weather got hot, and the only
redistribution of seats they were likely to seo was a new
grouping of the officials on the Treasury Bench. (A laugh.)
Several hon. gentlemen had asked what was the principle
of the Government measure? The principle, in his opinion,
_ _

was very plain. It was an extension of the suffrage in cities
and boroughs. This principle was also recognised in the
bill of the right hon. member for Buckinghamshire, and he

could not help thinking that the house committed an enor•

mous mistake in giving that measure an absurd party oppo-

sition, and thus losing the opportunity of satisfactorily
settling the whole question. (Cheers from the Opposition.)
His (Mr. Osborne's) advice was that they should go into

committee on this bill; but whatever they did they should
not for a single hour delay the reduction of the franchise.
They all professed a wonderful sympathy for what was

called the superior class of the artisans; but what had been
done towards admitting these men to the franchise? It

was notorious that there were fewer of the artisan class in

the enjoyment of votes than there were in 1832. On the

average tho £lO house in 1832 was now a £l4 house, and
the tendency had been to decrease the political power of

the working classes, because, owing to the advance of pros.

perity in the country, they did not now live in £lO houses,

The Lord Advocate had produced a sensation by saying
that the House of Commons was the embodiment of demo-
cracy. So far from this being the case, there were no less
than 217 members who were either directly or indi-
rectly connected with the aristocracy or members of
it. Talk of trades unions ! Was . not that house
a great aristocratical trades union ? (Laughter.) It
was said this might be so, but they passed good measures,
and permitted no practical abuses to remain unremedied.
No practical abuses, with Ireland in the state it was, and
with such an enormous expenditure as the country was
saddled with ! (Cheers.) He held that the very best thing
that could happen to the country would be to diminish the
fiunkeyism which was creeping upon that house by a
healthy admixture of the working classes.*,(Hear.) He had
listened with great pleasure to the speech of the right hon.
member for Caine ; but he could not agree with its senti-
ments. His right hon. friend would substitute in lieu of the:
three estates a paternal tyranny, and instead of atit ofshs
free, and healthy democracy, would give them a nation
of
cowering pupils, receiving spoon diet at the handsa
Would
intellectual despot. (Loud laughter and cheers.)
ton
part
wo
only say a few words with regard to the
of the scheme. Such a bill should havet had to do away
with deficiencies. The Gthree objects—to
correct anomalies, to remove inequalities,
clear of all these. (Opposition cheers.)
bill h
s It was totally im
you could get men to
He thought small
boroughs had great advantages,
to steer
possible to bring in a bill by we h
put the torch to their own funeral Pilo.
es,
and he should be sorry to
see them done away with.
d he utterly objected to their
disfranchisement , They were necessary excres-
cences of the constitution, an
without
reference to their past character
for purity, or
Ttoake Ll
the eminent
koard borough always famous
mon whom they had sent to
Parliament,
by this bill going to link it to a
quest,
character. (Laughter.) He had
for its purity • they were
w
'dow of very clues
very to say in favour of the Government system of
grouping, for
ho believed that even where there was no
contest the elections for the Scotch burghs were most ex-
pensive. An hon. member who had five boroughs in the
group he represented told him that, even when he had
no contest, it cost him £1,603. Even if that system
answered in Scotland, he felt sure that it would not
do so in England. They had been told by the
honourable member for Caine that Earl Russell
had succeeded to the premiership by seniority.
That was not so ; ho had succeeded to the post in virtue of
his em eut eerViCee in promoting all Lilwal measures.