The Sun.
London, England, 1832-08-15 00:00:00

FORGERY BILL.

On the Report of this Bill being brought up,
The Eirl of ROSSLYN said, that in the absence of
his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord \Vynford) he had to
move an amendment, which would have the effect of ex-
cluding from the operation of the Bill the forgery of wills,
testaments, codicils, or testamentary writings, with a view
to defraud any person whatsoever, or powers of attorney
for the transfer of stock, or for the receipt of interest of
stock.

The Nolib. Earl having read his amendment,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the opinion he had
expressed last night remained unaltered. The reason of
the ground on which he voted in the other House of Par-
liament was principally taken in the case of forged nego-
tiable securities. The immense amount of money con-
stantly passing by means of cheques on bankers, to the
amount of millions in the year, and the risk to which that
property was exposed, were the principal reasons
why the punishment of death was so long continued
by the other House of Parliament in regard to those se-
curities; but those reasons did not apply to the cases of
forged bills and powers of attorney. In cases of cheques,
one person at once could accomplish the forgery, and pro-
bably escape, whereas in cases of forged wills, a
person did not obtain the money at once, but went
to the proctors, frequently thereby leaving plenty of oppor-
tunities for suspicion and detection. It was, in fact,
almost impossible to carry into effect a forged will, unless
there was a conspiracy between several persons, all
of whom must be conversant of what was going
forward. In his opinion, therefore, if there was
any one case in which the punishment of death ought to
he continued, it was in the case of negotiable securities;
and if there was any one case from which the punishment
of death might be taken away, it was in cases of wills
and powers of attorney. He admitted that there was
a distinction between wills and powers of attorney, but not
such a distinction as to take either out of the line of his
argument. He was, therefore, against the introduction of
the proposed clause ; but if be found the House wished
that it should be carried, he would not propose it.
The Bishop of HEREFORD expressed his opinion
against the exceptions. He was strongly opposed to the
taking away any protection to property from the mercan-
tile part of the community; hut after the speeches of last
night, and the speech of the Noble and Learned Lord
to night, and looking at the number of petitions proving
the reluctance of many persons to prosecute under the
present law, he thought that the punishment of death for
all offences against property should be abolished.
Earl GREY said, if the clause would deprive
persons of the security they otherwise possessed,
he would not be in favour of it, but his conviction
was, that in cases of wills and powers of attorney
there was net that reluctance on the part of the
public to prosecute that there was in other cases. It was
a.- great el,. &ash,
forging wills and powers of attorney had the effect of ruin-
ing whole families, and therefore he thought those offences
required a stronger operation of the law. It was stated
last night, as a proof of the public feeling against capital
punishments, that a great deal of sympathy was felt in the
case of Fauntleroy. He (Lord Grey) certainly, averse as he
was to the shedding of blood, felt ❑o such sympathy,
for considering the magnitude of his crime, and the
ruin he had entailed on others, if ever a man deserved his
punishment, it was that man. That also he believed to
have been the opinion of many others. He had heard of in-
stances of morbid sympathy towards other great criminals,
such for instance as was shown towards Thurtell, but
that would not induce him to alter his opinion.
Under these circumstances, he was in favour of the clause,
and if it should be found hereafter to be ineffectual, it
would always be in the power of the House to alter it, and
give, by the certainty of punishment, a better security to
property.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, with the permission of
their Lordships, must say, with respect to what had been
stated by his Nob!e Friend, that he did not state that that
species of forgery, which had been referred to, was of
frequent occurrence ; but that it was not of that unfrequent
occurrence which was supposed. If it occurred much more
frequently than it did, that would only be a stronger reason
against the law as it at present stood. He considered there
would be much less forgery when the capital pnnishment
was altered.

The clause was then agreed to.
SITTING OF THE HOUSE.

Ou the suggestion of the Duke of WELLINGTOY, it was
arranged that the House should commence public business
at four o'clock.

Adjourned at a Quarter past Six o'Clock.

WEST INDIES.

REPORT.

By the Lords' Committees appointed a Select Committee
to inquire into the Laws and Usages of the several
West India Colonies, in relatio❑ to the Slave Popula-
tion, the actual Condition and Treatment of the Slaves,
their Habits and Dispositions, the means which are
adopted in the several Colonies for their progressive
Improvement and Civilization, and the Degree of Im.

provement and Civilization which they have at present
attained ; and also to inquire into the distressed condi-
tion of those colonies; and to whom were referred cer•
lain petitions and papers in relation to the matters be-
fore the Committee.

That the Committee have applied themselves to
the matters referred to them, and, considering that
there was no prospect of their being able to ex-
amine into the state of all the West India colonies
during the continuance of the present session, came
to an early determination to confine their inquiry,
in the first instance, to the Island of Jamaica; and
though they have collected much evidence upon the
condition of the slaves in that Island, some of which
is of the most contradictory description, yet they
have not found it possible to enter into a detailed
examination of many of the other points referred to
them, and upon none -has their' inquiry been so
complete as to enable them to submit to the House
any definitive opinion. They have, amongst others,
called before them planters, managers, and pro-
prietors of estates, attornies, overseers, persons
having connexion with the Island, or who have
visited it in public capacities, and missionaries of
different persuasions; and the most material points
brought under their notice have been-
-Ist, Any progressive improvement which may
have taken place in the state of the slaves since the
abolition of the slave trade in 1807.

2d. The actual state and condition of the slaves,
the nature and duration of their labour, and also
evidence as to instances of cruelty and gross abuse
of authority and power.
3d. The increase or decrease of the slave popu-
lation as it respects Africans and Creoles, and as
affected or not by the state and system of slavery :
and

4th. Plans for improving the condition of the
slave or effecting his emancipation, and opinions as
to the probable condition of the Negro, and the
effect upon society and property in the Island,
which is likely to be produced by such emancipa-
tion. Beyond this the inquiry has unavoidably

diverged into various collateral matters, from which
the Committee could not abstain without omitting
many important points, the consideration of which
would be essential to a satisfactory conclusion.
Under these circumstances, adverting to the ad•
vanced period of the session, and to the probable
arrival of persons of authority from Jamaica, whose
evidence would be most desirable, they have de-
termined to postpone the consideration of any de-
tailed report, and simply to lay the evidence col-
lected btf.re the House, with such an index as may
enable the House without difficulty to refer to tile
information which has been obtained upon any of the
objects of the inquiry. August 9.