The Sun.
London, England, 1832-09-28 00:00:00

'ARD OF BISHOPSGATE WITHIN

REFORM FESTIVAL.

The freemen inhabitants of the ward of Bishops-
gate 'Within met yesterday to the number of 300,
at the City of London Tavern, Bishopsgate-street,
for the purpose of celebrating the triumph of the
measure for a reformed representation in the House
of Commons. Mr. Alderman Copeland, the Alder-
man of the ward, was invited to the festival, but he
sent a laconic refusal to the invitation, alleging that
it would be inconsistent with the vote he gave in the
Common Council if he accepted the invitation, and
stating that he should not be in England when the
dinner took place.
Mr. W. STEPHENS was called upon to discharge
the duties of the Chair. When the cloth was with-
drawn, it was announced from the Chair that a
medal, commemorative of the glorious achievement
of Reform, had been procured, through the instru-
mentality of Mr. Gibson of the ward, which would
be distributed gratuitously to the company. The
stewards, accordingly, came forward, and presented
to each gentleman assembled a handsome bronze
medal.

The CHAIRMAN after the usual loyal toasts gave
" A reformed Parliament, and may it prove the
terror and scourge of delinquents, and the protection
of the public purse." The Chairman cautioned the
meeting not to be deluded by the present machina-
tions of the Tories, who were now hard at work all
over the country, endeavouring to destroy the good
effects which the Reformers had obtained. He
trusted no true Reformer would weaken the glorious
cause by starting against another reformer, and thus,
by dividing their interest, allow the enemy of the
people to prevail. What he, and what, he conceived,
the country expected from a reformed Parliament
was, that places and pensions would be rigidly scru-
tinized, that taxation would be more equally distri-
buted, and especially that church reform would be
brought about.—(Great applause.)
" His Majesty's Ministers," " the Lord Mayor,"
and several other healths and patriotic toasts were
drunk, and the company separated at a late hour.
Las

t week, at Yowls of Old Montrose, a
single seed of corn, having nine stems, was pulled, which
produced the large number of 857 seeds ! It is to be ob-
served, however, that this prodigy was found in a field of
peas.._ Caledonian Mercury.

Do not you think it probable that, continuing to
possess that privilege, which they would have, whe-
ther more joint stock companies were formed or not,
they would pay those dividends very much in their
own notes as now they do P—Probably they would.
And that so long as they possessed that privilege,
their preponderance and importance would very
much continue P—Certainly, in a considerable degree.
Would it not give them a vast advantage over
other establishments P—As far as the amount of
notes they would have in circulation, and in general
business.

Then it is your opinion that if other joint stock
banks were established in the metropolis, the circu-
lation of the Bank of England notes would still con-
tinue to be the chief circulation ?—They would con-
stitute a very principal part of the circulation, pro-
vided the same right of paying the dividends remain
to the Bank as now held by it.
If the same right of paying the dividends remained
to them, and they had, as they have now, the right
of paying in their notes to the revenue, do you
think that that would continue to them the mono-
poly of the circulation of the metropolis ?—Not the
monopoly, it might continue to them a great propor-
tion of the circulation of the metropolis.
Would it continue to them such a proportion of
the circulation of the metropolis that they would
have a control over the circulation so as to prevent
any undue fluctuations ?—Not altogether so as to
prevent any undue fluctuations, but it would give
the Bank of England a very salutary check over
other banks.

Then why do you think that the establishment of
joint stock banks in the metropolis would producefluc-
tuations in the currency of the metropolis ?—I con-
ceive that, taking the circulation of London in notes
at about 20,000,0001. or any given sum, the pro-
bable amount of gold locked up between the banks
i
would be one-fifth of the whole amount of notes n
circulation ; a variety of causes might occur, without
any over-issue of notes on the part of any of the
banks, to create adverse exchanges and an export of
gold, which would throw the notes of the joint stock
banks back upon themselves for gold; and each hav-
ing a much smaller proportion in gold by it than was
necessary for the withdrawal of their notes, the
whole portion in the hands of the different banks
being only one-fifth of the whole circulation out,
they would immediately begin to contract their is-
sues, and not only to limit arid stop all accommodr-
don to their customers, but further to call in their
loans for the purpose of possessing themselves of the
notes of the other banks, with the intention of ob-
taining from them that supply
of gold which other-
wise they would not have to meet their own en-

gagements.
The answer you have given applies to the case of
the exchanges turning against the country without
any previous over-issue of notes; do you think that
occurrence likely to take place ?—lt is an occur-
rence that has very frequently taken place, from
foreign loans, and large imports, without any pre-
vious over-issue of notes.
Have you known instances of it ?—I have.
When you speak of the right of the Bank of Eng-
land to pay the dividends, do you conceive that is
any thing of a vested right, which cannot be taken
away by Parliament ?—I am scarcely prepared to
answer that question. It is a right granted by
Parliament for particular uses ; but I conceive the

Can you state any particular fact from which you
think the Bank of England circulation increased at
that period ?—lt could be shown that we paid more
notes of the country banks at that time.
When you pay notes for country banks, is not
that operation somewhat similar to the country
banks paying them themselves P—lt indicates that
there has been a large amount of them issued pre-
viously, and that they were then returned.
Therefore the conclusion you draw is, that in July
and August the country banknotes were being
paid off P—That the amount of their issues in the
previous months were thus coming up to London
for discharge.
Therefore in July and August that fact would
rather show that a contraction was then taking place
of the previous issue ?—Yes, provided the country
banker did not continue to keep up his circulation
by fresh issues.
Would your books show at what period that issue
had taken place ?—We should only be able to judge
of it by the remittances we received, and it is a fact
to which I have not recently turned my attention
Can you state how long that large payment of
country bank-notes continued in London, which in-
dicated an excessive issue in the country ?—I have
not recently referred to it, but I should not wish to
limit it io the two months I have mentioned.
Did it continue beyond that period ?—I think
it did.

Did not that indicate a considerable disposition,
during that time, upon the part of the country banks
to put out more notes than the circulation of their
neighbourhood could fairly carry ?—lf this payment
of country notes in London was kept up for any length
of time, it would prove that fact most clearly.
Have you not observed that occasionally the issue
of country bank paper depends somewhat upon large
fairs and sales of cattle; have you ever heard, for
example, of very large issues of notes at such pe-
riods ?—Very often it depends upon local causes,
and it varies in different parts of the country in that
way at different seasons.

If the notes brought to your house for payment
in large amounts in July and August, 1825, had
been issued by the country bankers a short time pre-
viously to July and August, 1825, would not that
tenet to show that it would not lie in the power of the
country bankers to increase the issues of their notes
during a period when notes were reduced by the
Bank of England ?—lt does not follow from that
that the country bankers were not keeping up their
circulation in the country during the time that, those
notes were coming to us.
That would cause a further continuance of the
large payments you made towards the end of 1825 ?
Yes.

Do not you think that towards the latter end of
1825, or rather in September and October, a great
increase of country notes came to London for pay-
ment, in consequence of their being payable in Lon-
don only ?—lt was a cause which towards the end
of 1825 operated very much, whether as early as
October 1 am not aware; I think the first failure of
country banks took place in November.
You stated that in July and August, 1825, you
paid an unusual quantity of country notes; do you
recollect whether at that time, what is termed a
write-off, of one country bank in favour of another,
increased in the like proportion ?—I cannot answer
that question satisfactorily from recollection.
If they did increase iu that proportion, would it
not be a circumstance confirmatory of your opinion,
that the country bankers were disposed to issue
largely
?—lf the exchanges continued very largely
between the country bankers, it would lead me to
the conclusion that they had continued their issues
of notes to a very considerable extent, but, not hav-
ing referred to the subject, I am act prepared to
speak decidedly as to the fact.
About August, 1825, the foreign exchanges were
adverse to this country, were they not ?—I believe
they were, but I cannot speak positively to the date.
Was there not a contraction of bank-notes about
that period 2---4 think in August and September,
1825, there was.

Is not the effect of a contraction of bank-notes
to render them dearer with relation to the price of
oommodities ?—Yes, if there is no counteracting
cause.

Gold being the common measure of bank-notes

Do you happen to know whether you received
a large quantity of gold in the years 1823, 1824, and
1825 ?—I do not recollect the circumstance at this
moment.

Do you happen to know whether the alteration of
the law which extended the period of the circulation
of 11. notes for ten years, led to a very large issue of
notes on the part of country bankers ?—That is a
question which I must answer so much from indis-
tinct recollection that perhaps I should only mislead
the Committee by replying to it.
Is it your opinion that that would occasion a great
increase of country paper ?—lt is very likely to doso.
And have forced upon London the whole of the
gold, or nearly so, that had been in circulation ?
That would have been the probable consequence.
May not that have occasioned the large stock of
bullion which was in the hands of the Bank in the
early part of 1824 7—That would be the probable
operation.

_
Supposing the stock of gold to have been unu-
sually large in London at that period, would it not
take a longer time for the exchanges to be operated
upon there, precisely in consequence of that mass of
gold?—Yes, it would.

- May not that have been one cause why the panic
in 1825 was so very serious ?—Yes.

At the present time, in the course of your busi-
ness, is the balance of gold in your favour or against
you ?----At this moment it is in our favour.

To any considerable extent ?--Not to any consi-
derable extent; a month ago it was in the reverse
way.

Had you any great demand for gold at that pe-
riod P—A very considerable demand ; a very large
demand from Scotland.

Do you consider the country banks at present in
a state as safe and substantial as they have ever
been ?—I should say they are in as healthy a state
now as they ever have been within my recollection.
Do you think that, generally speaking, they are
more so since the suppression of 11. notes ?—I
should say certainly.
Do you think the establishment of the branch
banks of the Bank of England has improved the
country circulation or otherwise ?—I do not think
it has improved it; I think, as they have been hi-
therto conducted, they have been a convenience,
and perhaps a benefit, to country bankers, but if they
extend their business so as to interfere with the pri-
vate banks in the different towns, I think they
would bring about the same evil which we antici-
pate in London by the erection of joint stock banks.
Among country bankers that you correspond with,
what do you find to be their general feeling with
respect to the branch banks ?—My opinion is
founded upon the opinion of my correspondents,
which is, that, as they are at present conducted, the
branch banks are rather useful than otherwise to
them; there has been no material interference as yet
with the business of the private bankers.
Do you think that opinion is well founded ?—As
far as I can judge, I should think they area great
convenience to a private banker, without being de-
trimental to his business.

In what do you apprehend that a further exten-
sion of the system may become prejudicial to coun-
try bankers ?—At present they bold out some ad-

A numerous meeting of the Liverymen of Lon.
'on took place last evening, at 6 o'clock, at the
Guildhall Coffee-house, to adopt a report respecting
the propriety of electing two citizens, not Aldermen,
to be put in nomination for the office of Mayor on
Michaelmas-day next.
Mr. ‘VILLIAMS was voted into the Chair, and in
stating the object of the meeting, said, every body
present must be aware of the hostility lately dis-
played on several occasions by the Court of Alder-
men against the rights and privileges of the citizens
of London. It was this vexatious hostility that led
several citizens to inquire into the rights of the
Court of Aldermen, and particularly into those by
which they chose exclusively from their own body
the Lord Mayor. The result of those inquiries was,
that the gentlemen occupied in it had made the dis-
covery that the citizens of London had the right to
choose a Lord Mayor from among themselves. Se-
veral Charters of the City of London assign dis-
tinctly this right to the commonalty—that is, to thc.
citizens. The charters of King John and Henry
111. were precise upon this point: several decisions in
the Law Courts would be found to support this right.
Mr. FRANKS, the Secretary, lead the Report of
the Sub-Committee, to the following effect :
" The Sub-Committee report, that they have taken
every pains to ascertain from the Charters, Acts of Par-
liament, and other documents relating to the election of
Lord Mayor, and are decidedly of opinion that the right
is vested in the L ivory of London to elect the Mayor
from the citizens; and that the claim assumed by the
Court of Aldermen, that the Mayor should be chosen
from their body exclusively, is not warranted either by
law or the charters.
" That the Court of Aldermen have manifested such
bitter hostility to the citizens in the exercise of their char-
tered and prescriptive rights, and have given so many proofs
of a reckless and profligate misapplication of the funds of
the City, in shamefully squandering enormous sums of
money wrung from the industry of their fellow-citizens,
in attempts to deprive them of their rights, in direct vio-
lation of an Act of Parliament and of the Charters, it
cannot, therefore, be doubted but they will use every effort
to maintain their usurpations, and offer every opposition
to the rightful claims of their fellow-citizens which can
be suggested by the craft and trickery of well-paid law-
yers: the Sub Committee do, therefore, recommend, that
as there has not been sufficient time to organise such plans
and to make such arrangements as will render success in-
dubitable, not to contest this important right at the ensu-
ing election.
" They further recommend, that the present meeting do
form itself into a Committee, with power to add to its
numbers, fur the purpose of adopting such measures
shall ensure success in future elections, and use every effort
to obtain a restoration of the ancient right of electing the
Aldermen annually."
Mr. 'WILKINSON rose to move that the report and
the recommendation therein contained should be
adopted and attended to.
Mr. NICHOLSON observed, that the time of the
election of the Civic Magistrate was so near at
hand, that he was perfectly of opinion that the
struggle for the right the citizens had to elect from
their body a Lord Mayor ought to be deferred until
the citizens were better prepared. He begged to
offer his entire approbation of the report, and said
that it was highly creditable to the gentlemen on
(lie Sub-Committee who had drawn it up.
Mr. BARRETT had but one objection to make,
which was to the recommendation of delay. If the
facts contained in the report were correct, he thought
that the contest should not be deferred one instant ;
that it should be commenced to-morrow. In all
matters he agreed with the poet, that " procrastina-
tion was the thief of time." The Charters quoted
in support of their rights could be as well acted
upon now as two years hence.
Mr. CONST agreed with Mr. Nicholson as to de-
ferring the time of the contest, and doubted their
power of acting according to the Charters men-
tioned in the report.
Mr. 'WILKINSON said that the Livery should not
waste their time on trifling occasions, but preserve it
fresh and concentrated, in order that it might be
more effectual on the occasions when it would be
absolutely necessary to put it forth.
The CHAIRMAN begged to assure the meeting that
he knew it to be a fact that Sir Peter had materially
changed his way of thinking since last year. He
was now inclined to listen attentively to the com-
plaints of his fellow-citizens, and would redeem the
pledges he had lately made to them. His pledge of
calling Common Halls when the citizens requested
it, and of allowing Guildhall to be used by the
electors at their meetings, was a useful concession
on the part of Sir Peter, and he was sure that the
pledge would be redeemed.
Mr. CROUCIIER said it was well known that the
Conservative party was at present very busy in the
City; and if Sir Peter were allowed to pass the
chair without a contest, it would be tacitly encour-
aging them. A man like him, who had treated the
Livery with such contempt, should not come for-
Nerd and hope to be supported by those who had
been the objects of his gross and repeated insults.
Mr.BARRETT said, that thotigl. tie had but a poor
opinion of the Aldermen in genetal, he had a good
one of Mr. Alderman Kelly. He would, therefore,
move that he be put in nomination at the ensuing
election.

Mr. CONST said, that though he forgave Sir Pet*
Laurie for the trouble he gave him last year,
making him vote three different times, he did not
entirely forget it; and should be happy, by way of
retaliation, to give Sir Peter the same occasion for
o da
exercising his limbs that Sir Peter gave him last
election. The meeting should bear in mind the
number of votes a Lord Mayor could command in
the election of City Representatives. The next
Cmbidveircsthe oe
fr
Chair wouldanybody
b
Parliament
e great waswh se a mostpoliticalnger iim
havingp ort electiona n im-
portant
nooftnh Members
opinions were opposed to those of the great body of
citizens. He doubted Sir Peter Laurie--he doubted
all Tories--they were bad in the flesh, blood, and
tone—they were humble now that they were down;
ney were not afraid, because they knew the for-
giving nature of the Reformers.
Mr. MACKIN thought that Aldermen Key and
Kelly should be put in nomination, and supported
by the present meeting.
Mr. DEATH, as a Common Concilman of the City
of London, would give his cordial concurrence to the

report.
Mr. WILSON thought it would be the more pru-
dent course not to oppose any one to Sir Peter
Laurie; for, in the event of a defeat, much injury
.vould be done to the influence of this Committe.

Mr. NICHOLSON said, as the public papers of to-
morrow would declare war against. the Court of Al-
ermen, the Livery and Citizens should prepare
themselves, and be found ready for the fray.
Mr. BARRETT, on consideration, thought it more
prudent to withdraw his motion.

The motion was accordingly withdrawn.
Mr. CROUCIIER moved a vote of thanks to the
Chairman, which was passed ; after which the
meeting separated.

~~"

• 1111 -4KI
114 E CREDITORS OF THE LATE DUKE