The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-18 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, MrSDAY, ALJGCSP 18, ISA.

master. The county inspector might do the duty. lie had
not much to do now.
Lord NIORPETH found that the Inspectors had indeed
too much to do, and therefore it was that they proposed to
have a hard working clerk under him, who would also have
enough to do—as he would be made storekeeper, and also
barrack-master. He moved that the clause be omitted.
Mr. WALKER thought that the clause was unnecessary,
for he knew that in many cases the Inspectors had not their
full time employed. He would have no objection to give the
Inspector 401. for a clerk, but he must oppose the appoint-
ment of a new officer at 100/. He seconded the amendment.
Mr. O'BRIEN opposed the Bill, as it would increase the
taxation of the country.

Mr. SHAW thought the Bill would be very useful, but he
was afraid it would supersede the other magistracy of the
Country. The salary must be adapted to the office, and he
thought it ought not to be higher.
Mr. S. RICE said in his county the Magistrates found that
they could not go on without the assistance of a paid Magis-
trate, not to supersede them, but to assist and direa them upon
difficult points.

Mr. FRENCH objected to the increased expense which the
Bill would put 'on the people, which they could ill afford.
After some observations from Colonel PERCEVAL and Lord
MOP,PETII, the clause, as amended, was agreed to.
Clauses 3 and 4 were agreed to.
Mr. O'BRIEN objected to the sth clause.
After some few observations from Lord MORPETII which
were inaudible in the gallery, the clause, with some few verbal
amendments, was agreed to.
On Clause 6th being read,
Lord CLEMENTS did not think it necessary to have so
many persons as were provided for in the Clause to be Chief
Constables of Police.

Mr. WALKER thought some alteration should be made in
the Clause. What he (Mr. Walker) would propose was, that
the Lord Lieutenant should have the power of appointing any
number of second class chief constables, which, when taken
with the number of Inspectors, shall not exceed the number of
Baronies, or half Baronies in the county—with a proviso,
that if the county shoald be placed under the provisions of the
Peace Preservation Act, in such case the Lord Lieutenant
may increase the number of Chief Constables pro lempore.
Mr. JEPIISON thought even this number would be too
great, and the expense would be almost ruinous to some
counties.

Lord MOR PET H—The Hon. Gentleman seemed to have
out of his view altogether the discretion that was vested, by the
Act, in the Lord Lieutenant. He would propose an addition
to the clause, to the effect that the salary of every such chief
constable shall not exceed 701. per annum.
After a few words from Captain JONES,

Lord CLEMENTS wislied that the number would be
specified. Whatever the minimum number was, he should
wish it to be inserted.

The clause was then agreed to.

On clause 7 being read, which empowers the Lord-Lieute-
nant to appoint any additional number of police constables oa
an application from seven or more Magistrates of any county,
Mr. WALKER proposed that the words should be inserted
" having landed property .situate within such county of the
yearly value of 300/. or upwards." This qualification would
he of very great importance, as it would require the concur-
rence of a large landed proprietary before such an application
could be addiessed.

Mr. O'BRIEN had no objection to a qualification in point
of property, but he would suggest, as an amendment, that such
application should emanate from a majority of the Magistrates
of the County assembled at any General or Special Sessions,
such majority not to be less than seven.
Captain JONES would press upon the Noble Lord to
omit the clause altogether.
Mr. O'L 0 G FILEN begged the House to recollect, that no
addition could be made to the number of constables, except at
a public meeting, and those who did ,not attend the meeting
had no right to complain.
After a short conversation, in which several Members joined,
Mr. RUTH VE N considered that Magistrates under the
directions of absentees, the most objectionable Magistrates in
Ireland. He believed that a great many of them. in
the discharge of their duties, only considered the interest
of these who were seldom, if ever, in Ireland. In his opi-
nion, if the discretion were not left in the Lord Lieutenant,
it would be much better not to pass the Bill at all.
After some observations from Mr. WALKER and Colonel
PERCEVAL, the amendment was withdrawn, and the clause
was agred to with some verbal amendments.
On clause 8 being proposed to stand part of tha Bill,
Mr. F. FRENCH objected to the clause.
Lord MORPETH thought the clause would be productive
of very great advantages. •
Lord CLEMENTS supported the clause.
Colonel PE RC EVA L thought it was hard, when a system
was in existence that was so well constructed, and had done so
much good for the country, that it should be altered without
showing any good cause. He did not see why the House
should take away from the Magistrates the power of recom-
mending those persons they might think proper.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed
that the magistrates themselves had considered that it was
not right that the appointment should be in themselves, as
they felt convinced if it was, a species of favouritism would
be exercised ; they, therefore, at their first meeting
placed the appointment in the hands of the Government.
The consequence of the new arrangement would be that these
men Would be much more cautious how they acted. They
would feel' that they were not appointed by Lord so and so,
or Mr. so and so, who would carry them through thick and
thin, and protect them in any impropriety of conduct.—( Loud
cries of " Hear.") For these reasons he thought no objection
could be fairly urged against the clause.
Mr. R UTHVEN was of opinion that the more they were
remos el from local sources of appointment the better. He did
not like to hear unqualified praise lavished upon this body, al-
though he admitted that in some instances they had done their
duty properly and fairly. But when removed from the county
in which they were brought up, they were always better con-
ducted.

Col. PERCEVAL thought some explanation should be
given by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) of the sweeping charge he had made against
the police force.

•
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER felt per-
fectly justified in the statement he had made relative to the
impolicy of local appointments in that body.—( Hear.)
Mr. F. FRENCH, in answer to the assertion that the
peace preservation force was more respectable than the re-
gular constabulary, would state that snob was by no means the
ease.._( Hear, hear.) The former had been guilty of many
acts of insubordination and misconduct, which could not fairly
be charged upon the latter.
After a few words from Mr. WALKER and Mr. VEsEY,
The clause was agreed to, as was also clause 9.
On clause 10 being read, which gives the Lord Lieutenant
the power of incorporating the peace preservation force with
the constabulary.
Sir R.
.FERGUSON (as we understood him) feared that
the tendency of this clause would be to thiw a very great
additional expense upon the counties.
Mr. O'BRIEN thought it was one of the most useful clauses
in the Bill.

Mr. WYSE also approved the clause.
Mr. F. FRENC H agreed with the Hon Member for Lon-
donderry, that the Clouse would tend to encrease the expense
upon the public. Its tendency would be to render the peace
preservation force, which was only appointed to meet emcr-
genices, a permanent force.
Clauses 10 and 11 were agreed to.
On ause 12 being proposed,
Lo , CLEMENTS moved an amendment to give the con-
stables' power of removing nuisances on the public roads.
Colonpl PERCE VA L hoped the Noble Lord would per-
severe in his motion. It was a monstrous thing that now when
the police constables saw a gross nuisance on the highway they
were without the power of removing it.
Mr. SPRING RICE opposed the amendment, upon the
ground that.if you give them such a power, where part of the
the penalty for a nuisance went to the informer, the police
would soon find out that it was a much more profitable matter
to seize pigs, &c., than to attempt to preserve the peace.
Lord MOR PET H had no objection to insert a few words
directing the rules and regulations to be sent to the Clerk of
the Peace for the information of the Magistrates, who would
thereby know what was the rule upon such a subject.
The clause was agreed to as amended by Lord Morpeth.
_ _

On clause 13 being put,
Colonel PERCEVAL wished to know from the Noble
Lord what was the animus of this oath. He knew there were
many who had been Orangemen now in the amry of the polka.
he wished to know what would be done with those who said
they had been Orangemen, but would not act as such while in
the service?

Lord MORPETH—AII he propo;ed was to take care;
that when the oath was tendered, the person offering to take
it should declare that he did not then belong to, nor would
he join or belong to, any secret or political society whatever.
Mr. O'LOGHLIN could assure the Hon. and Gallant
Member that the gentleman who conducted this
,inquiry was
incapable of doing anything illegal. He challenged the Hon.
and Gallant Officer to bring forward any charge against him.
Colonel PERCIVAL accepted the challenge of the Hon.
and Learned Member, and gave notice that he would move
that a copy of the Report, and the evidence taken on the in-
quiry, be laid on the table.
Mr. ROMAYNE thought this the most valuable clause in
the Bill. He hoped that a similar. oath would be extended to
all other species of individuals who held rank or Commission
under the Government of Ireland, and to Justices of the Peace
also. _

The Clause was then agreed to, as was also Clause 14.
On clause 15 being pet,
M. VE SE Y rose to move as an amendment, that in line 19
after the word 'appointed' the following words be inserted," as
recommended by the Magistrates at the Quarter Sessions."
He thought the recommendation ought to come from the Ma-
gistrates, as they were chiefly concerned in the preservation of
the peace.

Lord- MORPETH objected to the amendment foQbe same
reason that he had objacted to the previous amendment.
Co!onel PE RCE VAL thought the- Mar,:istratcs ought to
have the powei of approval of men in their own county as
they should think fit to be appointed.
czaislittll!.tact
jse
idkc
uctoglbbtse. i ri j , Id oils ,
Lord MORPETH thought the effect of the clause was not
tOoNtavtleiogurgelaitt
ettrheeerte.Cornmendation of thc Ma.:
but greatly bcneficigl to counties. -
Strange-I.s were 6.0. ordered to withdraw. ;Ind thcr Gallery

was cleared for a division, but none took place, and the original
clause was agreed to.

(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
The VICE-CHANCELLOR, took his scat on the Woolsack a few
minutes before Five o'clock.

ORANGE LODGES.

A Message from the House of Commons brought up a Re-
solution of the Committee on Orange Lodges, summoning
the attendance of the Duke of Gordon and Lord Kenyon be-
fore them, to give evidence on the nature and extent of Orange
Lodges in Great Britain and the Colonies.
Mr. Sergeant PERRIN and others brought up the Irish Cor-
poration Reform Bill, Exchequer Courts in Ireland Bill, and
several other Bills.

The Tea Duties Bill was read a third time and passed.
Several private Bills were passed forward a step.
The Duke of RICHMOND moved the second reading. of
the abolition of Unnecessary Oaths Bill, which was ordered to
be committed to-morrow.

The Marquis of WESTMINSTER presented petitions
from Shaftesbury and Chester in favour of the Corporation
Reform Bill, which his Lordship observed was so mutilated
now that it was doubtful whether it could reach the other
House.:--( Hear and laughter from Lord Kenyon and others.)
Lord FARNHAM presented several petitions from Dublin
and other places in Ireland against the Irish Church Bill.
The Marquis of WESTMEATH complained that several.
Returns Which he had moved for, had not been made up and
produced.
Lord RADNOR brought up the Report of the Limitation
of Polls Bill, which is to be read a third time on Thursday.
Lord MELBOURNE presented a petition from the bo-
rough of Gateshead, praying that certain rights might be pre-
served to them.
MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL and others brought up the con-
sent of the House of Commons to certain Amendments of the
Bankruptcy Est*te Bill.
Lord RODEN presented several petitions from Ireland
against the Irish Tithe Bill.
Lord MELBOURNE presented several petitions in favour
of the Corporation Reform Bill.
Lord BROUG HAM presented a petition from Oswestry,
praying that the Bill might be passed without mutilation, but
it was already mangled into ,ten thousand pieces. Also a
petition from Truro, to the same effect.
Lord ELLENBO RouG II said the property of Oswestry
Corporation consisted of 2.51. a-year, which was expended on
the Conitabulary Force.
Lord BROUGHAM observed that a good deal might
be said on that subject, but at present -he would not
detain the House.

The arri of DEVON presented a petition from Exeter
against the Corporation Reform Bill.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER wished to know whe-
ther this petition was agreed to at a public or a hole and corner
meeting.
Lord BROUGHAM said, that if it had been agreed to at
a public meeting, it was a great curiosity.
The Duke of WELLINGTON rose and said, that he
could treat the Noble and Learned Lord to such a petition,
for he had one from Hastings agreed to at a public meeting,
and against the Bill.—( Hear, and laughter.)
Lord BROUGHAM observed that one curiosity sometimes
brought forwards another, and the Noble Duke, as a collector
of curiosities, bad been diligent and fortunate enough to
find one of this kind; but he feared the less its character
was inquired into the better, for if it were secured, like
Cornelius Scriblerius's shield, it would turn out to be nothing
but an old candlestick.—( Laughter.)
On the Order of the Day for bring up the Report on the
Staff Militia Bill being read,
Lord WESTMORELAND protested against the mea-
sure, and entreated the Noble Viscount (Lord Melbourne)
not to press it.
The further discussion was postponed until to morrow.
Lord BUTE presented a Petition from Argyle in support
of the Church.
Lord MELBOURNE brought up the Peace Preservation
in Ireland Bill, which was read a ffrst time, and ordered to be
read a second time on Monday.
Lord BROUGHAM gave notice, that he should propose
an amendment to give certain powers to the Grand Jury.
It was subsequently agreed that the Bill should be read a
second time to-morrow.
The House then went into Committee on the Corporation
Reform Bill, the Earl of SHAFTESBURY in the Chair. .
The Committee resumed at clause 35.
Lord LYNDHURST rose to propose an amendment to
negative the clause which limits the existence of the office
of the present borough Magistrates to the Ist of May, 1836,
and no longer.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)
•