The Sun.
London, England, 1859-06-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(THis EVENING).
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
There was a very full attendance of peers, and the galle-
ries were filled with ladies.
VESTRY ACT BILL.
This bill was read a first time.
DEBTOR AND CREDITOR BILL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR introduced a bill regu•
Isting the law of debtor and creditor.
CHURCH RATES.
The:Duke of MARLBOROUGH said on Thursday he
should move for the appointment of a committee to inquire
into the assessment of Church Rates.
THE ADDRESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR then read her
Majesty's most gracious Speech on opening the session of
Parliament .
MY LORDS AND GENTLEMEN,
I avail myself with satisfaction, in the present
anxious state of public affairs, of the advice of my
Parliament, which I have summoned to meet with
the least possible delay.
I have directed that papers shall be laid before
you, from which you will learn how earnest and
unceasing have been my endeavours to preserve the
peace of Europe. ,
Those endeavours have unhappily failed ; and
war has been declared between France and Sar-
dinia on one side, and Austria on the other.' Re-
ceiving assurances of friendship from both the
contending parties, I intend to maintain between
them a strict and impartial neutrality ; and I hope,
with God's assistance, to preserve to my people
the blessing of continued peace.
Considering, however, the present state of Europe,
I have deemed it necessary to the security of my
dominions and the honour of my Crown to increase
my naval forces to an amount exceeding that which
Las been sanctioned by Parliament.
I rely with confidence on your cordial concur-
rence in this precautionary measure of defensive
policy.
The King of the Two Sicilies having announced
to me the death of the King, his father, and his own
accession, I have thought fit, in concert with the
Emperor of the French, to renew my diplomatic
intercourse with the Court of Naples, which had
been suspended during the late reign.
All my other foreign relations continite on a
perfectly satisfactory footing.
GENTLEMEN OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,
The Estimates for the year, for which provision
has not been made by the late Parliament, will be
immediately laid before you, together with such
Supplementary Estimates as present circumstances
render indispensably necessary for the public
service.

MY LORDS AND GENTLEMEN,
I have directed a bill to be prepared for giving
effect, so far as the aid of Parliament may be re-
quired, to certain suggestions of the Commissioners
whom I had appointed to inquire into the best
mode of efficiently manning the Royal Navy ; and
I recommend this important subject to your imme-
diate attention.
`Measures of legal and social improvement, the
progress of which, in the late Parliament, was
necessarily interrupted by the dissolution, will
again be brought under your consideration.
'I
-should with pleasure give my sanction to any
well-considered measure for the amendment of
the laws which regulate the representation
of my people in Parliament ; and should you be
of opinion that the necessity of giving your
immediate attention to measures of urgency
relating to the defence and financial condition of
the country will not leave you sufficient time, for
legislating, with due deliberation, during the pre-
sent Session, on a subject at once so difficult
and so extensive, I trust that at the com-
mencement of the next Session, your earnest
attention will be given to a question, of which an
early and satisfactory settlement would be greatly
to the public advantage.
I feel assured that you will enter with zeal and
diligence on the discharge of your parliamentary
duties, and I pray that the result of your delibera-
tions may tend to secure the continuance of peace
abroad, and progressive improvement at home.
Earl POWIS, who wore a rich military uniform, rose
for the purpose of moving an address to her Majesty in
answer to her most gracious speech said, the short time
that had elapsed since they last met would relieve him
from alluding to many of the legal and social measures
which had been referred to in a former speech, some of
which had become the law of the land. On the present
occasion it would be out of place if he were to dwell
upon the dissolution and the effect it had had on the
state of parties, especially as that had arisen in the other
house, and it would be an infringement of the rights and
privileges of that branch of the Legislature. (Hear, hear.)
In her most gracious Speech her Majesty had referred to
several financial measures, and to the question of Parlia-
mentary Reform, and also to the advisability of post-
poning all consideration of the Reform question until
the commencement of the next session. He did not think
it competent for Parliament to grapple with that question
in the month of July, but that would be a question to be
decided by their lordships. .The state of India he should
also pass over, because ft was now progteasing in
the most satisfactory manner, and her Majesty had
signified her approval of the efforts made to restore tran-
quillity by personally conferring an important mark of
her favour upon Sir John Lawrence. (Hear, hear.)
The aspect of continental affairs was such that he could not
pass it over, especially as France, Sardinia, and Austria
had entered on the horrors of war on the fertile
plains of Lombardy. Her Majesty had informed them that
papers would be laid before their lordships, which would
prove how anxious she had been to preserve the blessings of
peace, and the expression of Royal regret that these efforts
had entirely failed ; but it was consolatory to find that
the position England would take in such an unfortunate
state of affairs would be one of strict and impartial neutrality.
(Hear.) As England was free from the religious feelings of
the Church of Rome, it was to be hoped that this country
would be enabled to devote some portion of time to the
advancement of measures of social progress. (Hear,
hear.) It was gratifying to find that the aspect
of commercial affairs was cheerinm, and it was most
devoutly to be hoped that that state of things
would be continued, for nothing was so fatal to all
commercial prosperity as war, The accession of
a new King to the Neapolitan Throne had induced her
Majesty to resume diplomatic relations with that coun-
try ; and although the matters relating to Central
America had not been finally settled, he trusted
that they would. , soon meet with a satisfactory.
solution. He now arrived at the subject of the national de-
fences, and the Government were much to be commended
for the active steps they had taken to strengthen the fleet, for
without such awise and salutary step ourneutrality in foreign
affairs would be little respected, and this brought to his re-
collection a quotation from one of Sheridan's plays, in which
he made one of his characters say " John we willagree in pla-
tcons." Her Majesty's Government had promised to afford
every possible assistance to volunteer corps, and to supply
them with ammunition for practice.. (Hear.) He could
net conclude without expressing his satisfaction at the tem-
perate manner in which foreign affairs had been discussed
last session, and on resuming bis seat he begged to move
that a dutiful address be presented to her Majesty.
The Address was then read by clerk at the table, and was
merely an echo of the Speech.
Lord LIFFORD, in seconding the motion, said he was
releaved from detaining their lordships at any length by
the variety of topics alluded to by the noble earl who had
just sat down. The state of Ireland wail satisfactory, and
but for the presence of his noble friend, who at present filled
the office of Lord-Lieutenant (the Earl of Eglinton) he
should have entered at some length into the question, but
he could not refrain from saying that the noble earl had
won the respect of all sects and classes by
his fair and equal dealing. (Hear, hear.) In
her Royal Speech. her Majesty said, " Considering
the present state of Europe I have deemed it necessary to the
security of my dominions, and the honour of my crown,
to increase my naval forces to an amount exceeding that
which has been sanctioned by Parliament. He did not for
an instant imagine that any difference of feeling- existed
with respect to keeping the navy in the most
efficient state. He regretted that it was thought desirable
to postpone the question of amending the state of the re-
presentation of the people till next sesslon. of Parliament, as
he believed that that question, above all others, required to
be settled at the earliest possible moment. The measure
introduced last seesiegby her Majesty' Government. he
regretted had not received. the approval of Parliament
• —(hear)—and this be much regretted, as he thought it
contained many provisions which would have been found
exceedingly beneficial and useful to the com-
munity at large. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord
then proceeded to condemn the opinions of Mr. Bright
on. the question of Reform, and said he was
greatly pleased to see that the noble. earl near him
had an absolute majority in their Lordships' house, and a
united band of followers in the other house, numbering
chore than M.
Earl GRANVILLE said the speech of her Majesty that
day was the third which she had delivered in that house dur7
ing the present year, and he must say that of the three it was
one which tended to produce the greatest amount of com-
plication. In the speech with which her Majesty dissolved
the late Parliament there were some words of a very unusual
character, the effect of introducing them being to put into
her Majesty's mouth an invocation to Divine Providence to
give a majority in the House of Commons to the existing
Government. (Laughter.) Since that speech was delivered
the Government had certainly not played the part of the
waggoner in the fable ; they had not contented themselves
with prayer, but had applied the governmental shoulder
energetically to the work. (Hear, and laughter.) In the
speech just delivered nothing was said as to whether or not
• the majority which was prayed for had been obtained; but
the noble viscount who had just sat down had told them
that the Government had 300 supporters in the other hou.se.•
Re was afraid that the Government intended to attempt
still to go on with a minority in the House of Commons ;
and it was to their having done so hitherto that he attri-
butedrais what lie thought their lordships must all deplore, the
thal:Lgenaent:of affairs at home and abroad. He thought
bath in opposition and in power the conservative party
had committed an error in being so anxious to please every-
body. Though he was not himself a member of that party
he entertained great respect for it. He acknowledged that
it had a great hold on the sympathies of a large
portion of
'the population of this country; as long as taprinciples
were well defined it was sure of extensive support, and he
believed that the Government would have occupied a
Stronger position if they had applied Conservati ye principles
with moderation and judgment, instead ofgoing
in
to nntbito th
• right hand and the left, and tryingd of hers
po-
pular measures. (Hear, hear.) Let hire ref€ rto some
' events during the last year which justified this v few of the
matter. With the exception of the legal mess, lees of re-
ly th previous
form, the details of which were prepared

Government, he could hardly remember a single attempt at
legislation on their part in which signal failure was not the
result. (Hear, hear.) Their India Bill was certainly one of
the greatest failures he had ever witnessed, and it could not
be doubted that the cause of failure in that case was the at-
tempt to catch various classes and individuals by means of
the popularity-seeking course which was pursued. (Hear,
hear.) A similar failure attended their church rate scheme.
The noble lord who spoke last-appeared to consider it an in-
justice to say that the Conservative party were not fitted to
deal with the question of reform. Well, all he could say was
that the experiment which they had made had met with such
opposition, not only from those who were generally opposed
to them, but from almost every one belonging to their own
1 party who was not in office, that it might be said. to have
been almost universally condemned. (Hear; hear.) There
was one reform measure supported by the Conservative
party which was perfectly unobjectionable in itself, namely,
the bill for the abolition of the property qualification ; and
the only drawback was the sort of distrust which was created
by observing the course which the Government pursued on
the reform question immediately after their accession to
power. As regarded the Jewish question, he must say that
nothing could be more smsatisfactory than the final settle-
ment of it---(hear) hear)--the Government first objecting to
the principle of the bill on the highest moral and religions
grounds, and then, not coming forward with an honest mea-
sure settling the "question, but pursuing a course which,
though it led to the attainment of the object in view, left the
stain of bigotry on the legislation of the country. (Hear.)
Such a bungling piece of legislation was it that during the
present week there had been an unseemly conversation in the
other house in reference to a question which was supposed to
have been finally settled. The desire of the Government to
meet the wishes of everybody was evinced in the concluding
words of the Speech which had just been delivered from the
throne. Notwithstanding the experience which they had de-
rived from the recent debates in the last House of Commons,
and from the speeches recently delivered on the hustings,
Government had again come forward, saying in effect, " We
have no opinion en the question of reform. We shall be de-
lighted with one thing or the other. It is not for us to guide ;
it is for you to act as you please." (Hear, hear.) No doubt
very able arguments might be used either in favour of settling
the reform question at once, or in favour of putting off the
settlement for a Short or for a long period ; but that
was exactly the sort of queetion which the Government
Fought to decide for themselves, and they could have no ex-
cuse for not deciding, unless it were that they did not pos-
sess the confidence of Parliament. Wear, hear.) Again,
he was afraid they had pursued a course which was inju-
rious to the public service by the manner in which they
had acted in a department which was under the special con-
trol of the noble earl at the head of the Government ; he
referred to the renewal of the contract for the transatlantic
service. The noble earl might treat that as a good subject
for a joke, but there were few things more important than
the careful watching by the Executive Government of the
votes of public money, and the administration of the public
funds in the most economical manner. (Hear, hear.) What
were the facts of the case with regard to the transatlantic
packet service? Mr. Cunard had several times applied to
the late Government for an extension of his contract, but
he was told that the Post-office commission had recom-
mended that all contracts should be given after tender' and
none for a longer period than five years ; that he had still
four years unexpired, and different circumstances might in
that period arise, other ports were putting forward claims,
and a thousand alterations might occur. The Canadian
Government had voted a subvention of £50,000 to one com-
pany, and it was desirable in any renewal of his contract
to make some arrangement with respect to Canada. About
a month after the new Government came in Mr. Ctmard's
contract was renewed with a considerable extension, and no
notice was taken of the Canadian subvention • after that
Government granted £BO,OOO for the Irish transatlantic
packet service—(hear, hear)—adding enormously to the
charge on that head. The grant might be right or wrong,
but it had a bad appearance coupled with a vacancy in the
seat for the port at which the station was placed. Again,
with regard to the African service, the station was removed
from Plymouth to Liverpool, against the desire of the Post-
master-General, and at a .considerable increased charge.
He would not detain their lordships by referring to the
case of the telegraph companies ; there was too great faci,
lity in granting accommodation to classes and individuals,
as the Government was not a strong Government.
The noble lord had complained that a religious party cry
was being raised ; no one could be more anxious than he
was to make every concession to the just claims of all reli-
gious denominations, whether to Roman Catholics, Protes-
tant, Dissenters, or their Jewish fellow-subjects, but he
thought it much to be regretted that, when such profes
sions of liberality were made, they should not be made at
such a time as to be entirely free from the suspicion that
they were intended to have a political influence, and not
have a party raising a cry on the hustings for increasedpay
to chaplains, who had compelled the late Government to re-
scind, a small vote for the same purpose. He should wish
the matter to be entirely free from the suspicion that it was
not decided on its absolute and abstract merits. With regard
to a still more important question, he observed the same de-
sire to accommodate : ho meant the question of finance.
The budget presented was nothing but an attempt to post-
pone the evil hour ; and would leave the finances in an un-
satisfactory state. It was very well for a Chancellor of the
Exchequer, addressing his constituents, to talk of the na-
tional debt as a fleabite, and almost to lament the country
would not have an opportunity of paying twenty millions a
year for war ; but before they arrived at such a deplorable
state of things, they ought to look to what was the actual
position of the finances. He believed that after allowing
for the two millions of terminable annuities which fell in
last year, there was something like seven millions to be
made good. He next came to the consideration of foreign
affairs. He assured the noble earl opposite (the Earl of
aahnesbury) ho had Sot the slightest intention of making
any personal attack upon him, Ile,-craa convinced no man
was more anxious to maintain the interest and honour of
the country—(hear, hear)—but still when the noble earl
was likely to be so much attacked he thought it would not
be just in him not to point out some matters on which cen-
sure could be thrown, and to give him an opportunity of
making a statement in his defence. He was ready to
admit that in forming any judgment on foreign affairs they
were likely to get into error from imperfect information.
They had no documentary evidence except some few
despatches on the Cagliari and refugee questions, some papers
with regard to the Charles et Georges, a short letter to the
shipowners, and averylong and closelyargued letter extend-
ing over three pages of closely printed foolscap, pointing out
the disadvantages of correct spelling and good handwriting.
(Laughter.) With regard to the Cagliari he was ready to
admit that the noble earl had shown considerable skill in
bringing it to an issue, and in profiting by the inspiration
of the late Government and the more cordial feeling felt
towards a new Conservative Government. There was an-
other subject on which they had received some information
from the United States—he meant the right of search. He
must say that the noble earl had represented himself as
making concessions of what were never contended for as
principles by any Britishistatesman, and a more extraordi-
nary production than the despatch to Mr. Dallas was never
published. It appeared from the Royal Speech that with
the exception of the belligerent powers all tho other foreign
relations of this country were in a satisfactory state. With
regard to the former, however, he thought as soon as the
war was ended there was no reason why the two countries
should not be on the most friendly relations and good under-
standing, subject, of course, to that watchfulness which was
the business of the Foreign-office. The present Govern-
ment had peculiar facilities for attaining such, a result.
They had no concern with the war. He was not aware,
however, that any progress had been made towards making
use of the co-operation of Russia in • the present disturbed
state of Europe ; and, with regard to information as to her
policy, he would he very much surprised to learn that the
noble earl was in a position to state anything satisfactory.
,He next came to a point of still greater importance, that
which occupied the mind of every man in that house. War
was now raging in themost beautiful provinces of the most
beautiful country in the world; hundreds of thousands of
men were pitted against their fellow Christians to kill and
be, killed, spreading desolation amongst millions. He be-
lieved—and it was a sentiment in which most of their lord-
ships would concur—that this great and disastrous war was
an unnecessary one—(hear, hear)—and it was impossible at
present to foresee whether any good would result from it.
This was a moment of excitement; France, satiated with
military glory, was anxious to renew her victories ;
Sardinia, always famous for military courage, now
inspired by the freedom she had enjoyed, and supported
by the sympathy and feelings of her fellow Italians, was full
of excitement to be led to victory by her heroic king ; as to
Austria, she also was in a state of excitement ; she had full
confidence in her magnificent army, she was fortified by her
confidence in herself even when smarting under her mili-
tary losses ; since he came into the house he had been in-
formed she was now fortified by recent military success.
This was hardly a time for calm reflection, but if either of
the belligerent powers should ask themselves whether they
have in any way contributed to bring about this state of
things he hoped this other reflection would also occur, that
in the judgment of Europe and the verdict of posterity he
who shall first promote an honourable, a moderate peace, will
questionlotuh e
best w a s
sitaucl infinitely best. Another question which interested
them more closely was whether the conduct .of England had
in any way contributed to this war ? Of course, if the
whether the Government had, done eveiything-
tiintentions and the greatest zeal could suggest,
no bt the
questiona which
nswerwould
ulbeeeintdheenalffii h me naetiverbed
but
whenthere
wasanother
• the papers were produced, and that was whether they had
ismhbizrntethntatesrikielilfirraness and ability in dealing with this
hich ;night have given evidence of a
satisfactory result. In justice to the noble earl opposite, he
must admit he had been always most explicit in his declara-
tions, but the explanations of the Government were so con-
tradictory, that they
w Cre
atpuzzled
rheiu ev4 know whether the
Government had taken any
particular step or with what
view. He had touched upon
t t
he considered the Government wasa open
topics on whicho blame. It
might, therefore, be expected that he intended
amendment to the address: He had no suchininvtnnigtioT,
and his reason he would briefly state—lt had been usual
a dissolution of Parliament to dissolve en the question on
which Government had been beaten. The Government
however had not taken that course, but appealed to the
country whether they possessed its confidence. The
answer to that appeal had now been given, and he
believed means would be taken in the other house to
ascertain the verdict. The speech on the dissolution had
censured the tone adopted by the late house, and he be-
lieved the Government had no right to make such a com-
plaint. He could not conceive a House of Commons
acting more fairly to a government in a minority. A large
portion of the Liberal party had supported them in the hope
of getting democratic measures, and on the last vote several
Liberals had gone-with them. As to foreign affairs, it was
creditable to the House of-Commons that on three different
occasions they left with the leaders the sole privilege of
speaking. The prudence with which their leaders spoke
was not only much to be admired, but it exercised the
greatest' effect on the minds of Austria, Sardinia, and
France. He did not deny the constitutional right of the
Government to dissolve, but the inexpediency of depriving
themselves of the support of parliament was shown by the
fact that the last step which made war inevitable was taken
only four days after the dissolution. The Government were
justified in dissolving if they expected to get a majority, but
if they did th'ey must have been greatly deceived ; they
would not be justified in doing 80 to strengthen their party
for future opposition. The opinion of the country had been
taken, and it would soon be decided by the vote of the other
house. If the decisifea ehould be adverse to the Govern-
Ment he trusted the result would not be unsatisfactory to
the country, but if it should be in favour of the present
advisers of her Majesty, he for himself and for those around
him, begged to say that, whilst they would continue to
watch closely the proceedings of the Government, they
would give them support whn support could consistently
be riven, and would abstain from anything like factious
opposition. (Hear, hear.) For these reasons he. did not

think the House of Lords ouent to be called on at that I
moment to come to any vote which might place the two
houses in opposition. The qua stion of real importance, and
that which the country desireel, was to see both houses sup-
port some good Government in a course consistent with the
honourand interests of the coin itry. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of MALMESRUIRY—AIthough my noble
friend who has just spoken has made one of those speeches
which we usually hear on such occasions as the present, and
has carefully avoided discussing the subjects mentioned in
her Majesty's speech, yet I canned regret that he has ad-
dressed your lordships, inasmuch as the observations
which have fallen from him :are not altogether de-
void; of interest. I am perso sally much obliged to
my noble friend for having given me fair notice of those
Parliamentary attacks which I >r inst expect, and which
I shall be fully prepared to me et whenever the time
for making them shall have arrived, but which I do not
think it right or convenient to your lordships that I should
further advert to this evening, inasrmich as you are not in
a position to have obtained that information which it is de-
sirable you should possess before such discussions are en-
tered upon, and which I trust to be able to lay upon the
table of the house in the course of three or four days. It is
my intention to place before you at full length all the cor-
respondence which has occurred between her Majesty's
Ministers and foreign Governments in relation to the war
which has unfortunately recently broken out on the Conti-
nent, and to acquaint you with the efforts which have been
made by her Majesty's Government to prevent that event.
The correspondence will embrace the communications ofsoine
five or six months, and although it is somewhat lengthy, yet
I have thought it better to lay it before you entire and to
run the risk of its appearing somewhat tedious rather than
keep back any partof itfrom your inspection. I shall, under
those circumstances, make no defence at the present moment
against the charge which my noble friend has brought for-
ward, to the effect that her Majesty's Government are re-
sponsible, not indeed, he admits, through want of zeal or
energy, but through want of skill and ability for not hav-
ing arrested the calamity of war in Europe. We have, at
all events, my lords, so far succeeded as to have prevented
this country from being involved in the contest ; nor do I
think it is upon the theatre of the present war that noble
lords opposite should seek their ground of battle with her
Majesty's Government. Before the noble earl who has
just spoken again reverts to this subject I hope he will pe-
ruse not only the despatches which I have written during
the late negotiations, but that he will also direct his atten-
tion to those which were laid before Parliament in 1848,
and in which a noble viscount in another place took sopro •
minent a part. And while giving expression to this hope,
I may be allowed to say that much of what has been left
upon my hands is due to the policy which that noble vis-
count pursued in 1848—(hear, hear)—when he had a golden
opportunityrsuch as has fallen to the lot of no other states-
man, of emancipating a large portion of Italy, and rescuing
it—if indeed rescue it can be called—from the oppres-
sien of which. Austria is accused. My noble friend must
not forget what were called the " Italian Papers," in 1848,
when he makes an attack upon me. (Hear, hear.)
They would serve to point out to him more clearly what has
been effected in 1859, and I am not afraid of the comparison
which may be instituted between the Government of that
day and'her Majesty's present Administration. (Hear.)
Lord HOWDEN said their lordships would recollect that
about a month ago, he believed on the 3d of May, a pro-
clamation was posted on the Walls of Paris, and through
the departments, which was at once an explanation of the
past and a programme of the future, In that proclamation
was this phrase, which he would translate as well as he
could—" The Austrians have brought things to such a pass
that they must be either masters of Italy, or Italy must be
free to the Italians." He did not understand that. That
was of little consequence. But what was of great conse-
quence was that he ardently hoped it was understood by her
Majesty's Government. He was not about to extenuate the
transgressions of Austria, but they ought to think of what
might arise if France was the power to administer the
punishment of them. (Hear, hear.) The phrase to which
he referred might mean a little or a great deal, according to
the method which was taken to work it out. But he was
perfectly convinced that that meaning should be known-
to her Majesty's Government, and even that it should be
made known to thepeople of this country through her Ma-
jesty's Government. Did this phraeco mean that some
Italian domination, existing in some Italian head, was to
become master of Italy from the Mediterranean to the
Adriatic ? He had no objection to that whatever. He
wished it might be the case, with all his heart. But he was
'sure that it was a matter of somewhat difficult execution.
(Hear, hear.)
The Marquis of NORMANBY said he had no oppor-
tunity of taking part in any of the discussions of their lord-
ships' house since his diplomatic employment in Italy.
His noble friend (Lord Granville) had stated the reason
why he had not moved an amendment to the address. But
he thought that explanation was unnecessary, for on all the
points which he so ably put, there was no ground of im-
putation•on which it would be possible to move an amend-,
ment. (" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial bench.) He
believed that a dissolution had been forced on the Govern-
ment. (Ministerial cheers.) He did not blame his noble
friend the member for the City of London for the Course
he bad taken, but still he believed no other course was
open to the Government than the one they had followed.
-In 1841 he alone opposed the dissolution proposed by
.Lord Melbourne's cabinet, and though Lord Melbourne
shared his opinion to a great extent he was not able to re-
sist the majority of the Government. He should, there •
fore, be surprised if the amendment which was spoken of
was founded on any constitutional objection. (Hear, hear.)
He could not, therefore, participate in such an association
as had been formed for that purpose. (Hear, hear, from the
Ministerial bench.) ' He did not think it was sufficient to
say to the Government, " Yon are in a minority in the house
at this time," unless you could show that there was some
other party ready to replace them, and to conduct the Go-
vernment without any compromise of principles. (Cheers.)
With regard to the questions put by his noble friend who
had just spoken, there was another which he should like to
put—namely, whether the Government did or did not con-
sider they were deceived in the progress of the negotia-
tions. It appeared evident that when they were told that
France was not arming or preparing for war, that she was
only supplying the ordinary, deficiencies in her military
establishments, they could not expect to find that African-
regiments would be at an hour's notice within a very con.
venient distance of the Italian frontier. (Hear.) They
always heard that the proposed congress was to be conducted
on the views of the treaties of 1815. But he only spoke of
what was within his personal knowledge when he stated
that the next day after the landing of the French in Genoa
a conspiracy which had been carried out under the diplo-
macy of the Sardinian Minister broke out in Tuscany, and
the lawful prince was obliged to leave the country. (Hear,
hear.) Attempts were next made to revolutionise Modena
and Parma. Next there arrived a French prince at Leg-
horn, which threw a suspicion on the whole of these pro-
ceedings. - It had been stated that he had been only sent
there for strategic purposes. But any cadet from one of
their military colleges could have told this general that the
only strategic operation which could be accomplished in
that part of Italy was to keep as far as possible from the
scene of action. (Hear, and laughter.) But if no strategic
object, was there no other object in view ? It should be re-
collected that in the treaty of Tilsit there was a clause which
affected British interests. It was not the object of that
clause that the Mediterranean should become, as it was
called, a French lake, but that it should become only open
to the powers that bordered on that sea. That was to be ac-
companied ly the expulsion of England from Malta and
Gibraltar. • Their lordships should bear in mind the history
of the settlement of Russia at Villafranca. The port of
Genoa was now not only in the bands of the French, bnt
French officials had taken palaces there for three or four
years. France was also in possession of Civita Vecchia, and
of Leghorn. A great naval commander of Russia, the Grand
Duke Constantine, happened to be in the kingdom of the Two
Sicilies when there was some dispute between the members
of the royal family as to the succession to the throne, and
when asked which party he would support, the Grand Duke
was reported to have said he would be for the legitimate
successor. These were all steps towards that monopoly of
the Mediterranean which the treaty of Tilsit referral to.
But was that all ? What was happening at Venice ? It was
blockaded by the French fleet; and not only that, but Trieste
had been and would be blockaded. In the face of all these
circumstances England ought to be on her guard. (Hear.)
And they ought to be careful not to show any sympathy with
the party who was chiefly engaged in these concerns. He
saw that at the meeting held yesterday a noble friend of his,
the member for Tiverton, took that opportunity of express-
ing his sympathy with the Italian cause. But, addressing
the electors of Tiverton on another occasion, he went further,
and expressed a hope " that before the end of the campaign
Austria would be expelled from Italy." But let not the
house be led away by this delusion of Italian freedom. In
every one of the proclamations that had been lately issued
the freedom of Italy had been omitted. The independence of
Italy was retained, but that independence would be the re-
sult of assistance given by a great power, which it was the
intention of Europe to exclude from Italy, It was singular
that this language about the treaties of 1815 came from a
noble lord who, of all the living statesmen of England, was
the only one who acted a part in their formation ; whereas
he recollected that he and his noble and learned friend be-
hind him (Lord Brougham) then members of the house, en-
deavoured to get some of the provisions of those treaties mo-
dified on the ground that they were too arbitrarily framed.
He should always speak with gratitude of the manner in
,which he had been assisted by the present Emperor of the
French in conducting the negotiations between the two
countries during the time he was the constitutional
chief of the--State. He- was aware at the time _that he
(Lord Normanby) took a different view of affairs from what
he did himself, but he still admitted that the view he took
was a natural one for an Englishplan to take ; and ever
since that time he never found the al' htest difference in the
conduct of that illustrious individual towards him. Thohgh
he had no particular reason to show any partiality to -Lord
Derby, still he sincerely believed that, as long as the Go-
vernment was consistently carried on, as it had beau by his
noble friend, it was not' for the advantage of the country at
this crisis in foreign affairs, that the Government should be
displaced, until there was more unity of purpose amongst
those who were seeking to displace it—above all, so long as
we were • threatened with a statesman as Prime Minister
who had declared in the face of Europe that he hoped,- be-
fore the end of the campaign, thitt Austria would be cx•
gelled from Italy. • (Hear, hear.) lie (the Marquis) did
not approve of all the acts of the Austrian Government.
They had not the art of making the worse appear the better,
but they had sometimes the misfortune of making the better
appear the worse. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that we should
not place in power a Government which was pledged to go
against Austria. He feared that he had exhausted their
lordships' patience, though he was not half exhausted him-
self. (A laugh.) He was glad that no amendment was pro-
posed. Until his friends could agree amongst themselves,
let them abstain trom doing anything- that would weaken
the Government, He had never voted more conscientiously,
in favour of an address than he should for thee present one.
(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of CARLISLE said he did not rise with. any'
intention of entering upon the wide field of general topics
whichi a debate upon the address must always lay open to
delo-
quently 0
and a
th
iastfaeextot
usyi voce groundeupi
ed. had
The
generalalready beenquestion elo-
of foreign affairs teal of our foreign policy must be without
doubt
stimulate
most interesting and important of any that -could
now
anne publicunced
in attention.
the espeech
e h fromHe entirely
t he throne, h
concurredrene,e d
in
the policy
the opinion which was generally, he might say unarrimouslY,
entertained by all the leading statesmen of this country, in-
,a
nlti hafe,ervtofhemerelytilsp‘m,uhoirisacestyisdibialaenianect,ibitrtetcheeudne:dshisuotfta:un,leilcoyefl
acistiadninyginTaieni:da
nPda lwmo eurlsdt o
Inn
which
ipe
did not
oc
to ua nf ter ye t aitios(korf,unnond7
and bloody war that was
now
asdesolating thet
hwea
fairestnton , wireegkieono
of Europe.(Hear, hear.)
Tdehseernibedole lord who had just sat down was much mistaken
part
of the leading men of all parties in this country
in supposing that Lord Palmerston would net be actuated
by impartiality in his feelings or conduct towards the belli-
gerent powers. There was a real and honest determination
on the
to keep us to the strict letter of neutrality; and it would be
wholly superfluous for him to add any words of his to that
general declaration, (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of EGLINTON 'said, he had no intention of
taking part in the discussy?n of that evening, until he had

heard the observations which had fallen from the noble earl

who had just spoken, and in reply to which he felt called on
to address a few observations to the house. He had, he

was ready * admit, read in the public joumrls, in common
with all their lordships, the statement that some unholy
compact existed between himself, the members of the Exe-
cutive Government in Ireland, and Cardinal Wiseman and
the Roman Catholic party generally. It afforded him great
pleasure to hear that repeated in your lordships' house in a
tangible form, inasmuch as he was thereby afforded an op-
portunity of giving it at once in the most emphatic terms
m which he could express himself, a distinct denial. (Hear,
hear.) He had then no hesitation in asserting that there
had not been on his own part, or on the part of any mem-
ber of the Executive Government in Ireland, the slightest
compact, arrangement, or uuderstandingexpressed or im
plied, or of any sort or of any kind whatsoever. (Cheers.)
Nay, more, he had never had the slightest communication,
either directly or indirectly, with any Roman Catholic
either before, during, or after the general election, on the
subject of the noble earl's remark.s. He had indeed heard
it stated as a proof that a compact had been entered into
between himself and Cardinal Wiseman, that he had at-
tended a Roman Catholic bazaar, and had spent a few
pounds in aid of the funds of the charity which it had been
set on foot to promote. Now, he would appeal to his noble
friend thelate Foreign Secretary to the noble earl who had
just spoken, and to another noble lord whom he did not see
in his place at that moment, to say whether, during the
period of their stay in Ireland, they had not all at-
tended the bazaar to which he referred in aid of the funds
of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul 1 When he had
gone to Ireland in 1852 he had been informed that that so-
ciety was one of a dangerous and proselytising description.
and had been pressed not to attend it. He had, however,
investigated the matter, and had found that ,the society was
not one which had been set on foot for proselytizing purposes
but which was devoted to the indiscriminate relief of both
Protestants and Roman Catholics--(hear)—and he had,
therefore, attended the bazaar in 1852, in 1858, as well as
in the course of the present year. If such attendance were
proof of a compact between him and Cardinal Wiseman,
that proof existed in 1852 as well as in 1859. The subject,
however, was one on which it would be ridiculous any
longer to waste their lordships' time. He had gone to Ire--
land to govern not a party, but a country, and while he
was determined to uphold the Protestant religion in all its
integrity, he should not, at the same time, he deterred
from the performance of acts of social courtesy or charity,
either by the bigotry of one religious sect or the taunts of
another. (Cheers.)
Lord BROUGHAM was of opinion that the Speech from
the Throne must have been framed in strict accordance with
the motto which said, " Look at everything and touch no-
thing." With regard to the object of the war, which was
said to be the liberation of Italy and the establishment of
Italian nationality, did anybody believe for one moment that
it was reallyundertaken for the purpose of driving out Aus-
'trio. because Austria had iraaltreated. her Italian subjects ?
For himself no man was More desirous of seeing Austria
removed from Italy, and the Italian States working out
their own independence; but he did not want to see them
transferred from one master to another. It was urged that
by giving Lombardy and Venice to Piedmont you would be
freeing a great portion of Italy. As well might it be said
that if you gave certain of the small German Principalities
to Prussia or Austria' you would aid the 'cause of German
freedom or nationality. In point of fact it would be pillage,
it would be taking the property of one Power to give to
another, and more hateful even than the act itself would be
the false pretence that you were doing this in the name of
Liberty. (Hear.) For ages past Lombardy had been in
the possession of Austria, and since 1815 it had, together
with Venice, been guaranteed to her by treaty. He had been
reminded of the part which he had taken in this question in
1815. But in 1817, too, he had attacked Lord Castelreagh,
and the front of his attack was that that Minister had
abandoned the 'principle, the policy, and the pledges of the
country by giving up the free Republic of Genoa to the
Monarchy of Sardinia. Sardinia had now the same right
to Genoa that Austria had to the Venetian part, of her
Italian possessions, and one dating from the same period.
Had he ever dreamed of attacking that title at a later time ?
Forty years had elapsed, and when there had been such
long possession the soundest principle of foreign policy and
of international law was not to scrutinize too nicely the
question of title. He would take an instance. There was
no crime in the history of nations more outrageous than the
partition of Poland, and yet nobody thought of interfering
with that arrangement, although its prescription was only
20 years lons•'er than that by which the Venetian territory
was held by Austria and Genoa by Sardinia. Austria, he
admitted, was greatly to blame in many respects, but prin-
cipally for the encroachments she had made since 1815.
She had made treaties with small independent States, by
which they allowed themselves to be absorbed in their more
powerful neighbour, and the other Powers had a right to
object to those treaties notwithstanding the assent by which
the absorption took place. If there had been a Congress
he believed that Austria might have been persuaded to
abandon the undue influence which she had thus acquired
since 1815, and he could not help hoping that in the course
of the negotiations which might arise at any moment a re-
currence might be had to the proposition made by Prince
Metternich many years ago, to give up Lombardy, not to
Piedmont, but to an Austrian prince, converting it into a
separate State, If that were done, a great good would be
accomplished, and Austria would be relieved of a grievous
burden. (Hear, hear.) There was one point which filled
him with considerable alarm. A succession of brilliant vic-
tories might encourage the French army—for ho had much
less apprehension of the Emperor than of his soldiers—to
undertake expeditions of a still more reprehensible character
than the present. He did not counsel any distrust, for the
Emperor had been throughout our faithful ally, and we had
no reason to expect him to be otherwise now. Considering,
however, his position, with a vast army eager to distinguish
itself, and without the check of a free Parliament or a free
press, while we ought not to be mistrustful or suspicious, we
ought to be upon our guard. (Hear.) Nothing could be more
clear than the absolute necessity of largely increasing our
navy, and he earnestly trusted that the measures which had
been taken to increase the number of our seamen and to
improve their quality might be completely successful.
He hoped also that facilities might be given—stimulus was
not required—to the formation of volunteer corps, believing
that great advantage- vseuld accrue. (Hear.) But there
was another thing weented., We wanted a strong Govern-
ment—a Government capable of inspiring awe and wielding
the influence of England with vigour and effect. Any sup-
porter of the present Government who reckoned upon the
division of their adversaries might say as the Roman patriot
did on the decline of the empire :—"Maneat quwso duretque
gentibus, si non amor nostri, et certe odium sui • quando
nubentibus '
tandem imperil fatis non nisi hostium discordia
servabimur." But he wished Ministers to be strong from
their own intrinsic support. If he turned to his noblefriends
behind him exactly the same difficulty occurred. Suppose
anything were to cause a change of Government, and they
were in office, then the discord would be intramural—(a
laugh)--at all events the Government would be feeble, how-
ever it might be formed, if composed of one party, or of a
combination of small parties. Was it wholly impossible,
in the greatest peril perhaps that England had ever en-
countered, and in the greatest opportunity that a strong
and united Government could have for giving peace to the
world, that there should be a general combination of the
heads of all parties to form a stable and powerful Admini-
stration ? He recollected the magnanimity which was
shown by the statesmen of 1804. Fox, Pitt, Wyndham,
Grenville, and Grey were all ready to sacrifice their per-
sonal, private, and party feelings, and to co-operate in
fermium a real, solid, and substantial Government. In
1792 Mr. Fox was most anxious for a coalition with Mr.
Pitt on account of tha dangers of the then threatening war.
But in 1804 the clouds had thickened,' the danger was
nearer, the urgency of the case greater, and he was still
more determined and more anxious to make sacrifices.
When the objection of the King to Mr. Fox put an end to
the hopes of a coalition, and Mr. Pitt came into power, the
expression of the latter to his friends was, "Fox has be-
haved like an angel." He had magnanimously offered even
to undertake an embassy at a foreign Court until the King's
prejudices were removed, so deep was his sense of the gravity
of the crisis. We might not aspire to-imitate the genius of
those great men of past times, but we could A least look to
the example they had set us of virtue—of that political self-
denial which the present conjuncture imperiously de-
manded: At present there was happily no question of con-
ducting a war. The question was as to conducting a nego-
tiation ; and for this purpose a Government such as he had
described, csmbining in its ranks the greatestaitatesmen of
the day would frown down all resistance, and awry with it
the support of all parties in both Houses of Parliament.
(Cheers.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH so entirely agreed with
what had fallen from his noble and learned friend (Lord
Brougham) that he could not forbear expressing his entire
concurrence in the concluding period of the noble lord's
address He had wished at an earlier portion of the present
debate to have expressed the view which had now been pre-
sented to the house in so much better a manner than he could
have presented it. He held that an intervention. in the pre-
sent state of affairs in Europe was utterly without hope un-
less we first made ourselves unattackable here at home, and
unless we could back an intervention with such a navaland
military force as would enable us in case of necessity to in-
terfere with effect. Such a force could not be obtained
otherwise than through the medium of a strong government.
Now the result of the. recent dissolition was this—it had to
a great extent equalised the strength of parties, and had in so
far thrown back the hope of a strong government. Further,
however, that motion w4ieh bad been sketched old by_the
noble earl opposite, and WECIi as he (Lord: Ellenborough)
had been informed, had been Sines made in the other house,
was one of the measures; most likely to throw back a strong
government. In the position in which they were now placed,
looking to whatever side they might, there appeared little
hope of a strong government. The opposition were supported
by men whose extreme opinions were as opposed to those of
the leaders of opposititM as these were to any of their lord-
ships, But he could tell the noble earl opposite that if the
opposition should become the Ministry, it was not always
that there could be found a Sir R. Peel to throw a shield
over them for their protection against their own followers. It
was, too much to expect that Mr. Disraeli, with his 300
friends, should throw his mg is over the now opposition,
should they become a government. Re agreed entirely with
what bad been said in an early part of th debate as to the
evil of-attempting to govern with a minority. He knew
the evil of such a practice, for he had had the misfortune
to belong to such a Government—a Government formed by
Sir R,' Peel,' and Which met the House of Commons in a
minority. If there was any man whO could have governed
the country under such a crisis it was Sir R. Peel. -He recol-
lected that distinguished statesman telling his colleagues
that front the first he had seen the impossibility of going
on ; that he felt the mischief of the continual rebuffs to
which his adniinistration was subject, which materially da-
maged the authority of Governments generally. He (Lord
Ellenborougit) would go further than some noble lords on
the other side hail gone, and would say that even if there
was a majority, unless it was a considerable one the Govern-
ment carrying. on affairs was doing a disservice to the
Crown. People looked to a Ministry as men whose duty
it was to place before Parliament measures of which they
had approved, But a weak Government could not venture
to be guided solely by what they believed to be just ; they
were obliged still more to consider what would be the view
of the Opposition upon such measures as they ventured to
bring in. Thee views were so much shared by the late.
Sir ft, Peel, that altle argil he had means for knowing that
he should receive great support front the country, he tit the
period to which he had already alluded thought it his dutjto•
endeavour to strengthen himself by obtaining the adhesion
of men in whom large portions of the Legislature placed
confidence. His noble friend at,the head of the Government
knew that Sir R. Peel was unsuccessful in his appeal, but
tho result undoubtedly was that he stood much better with
the-house and with the country than he did before the at-
tempt wi.s made. He (Lord Ellenborough) wished that
noble lords and hon. gentlemen in the other house would
look back, as he had done, to the debates in the House of
Com-none during the late war, and to the history of that ,
period. They would see how a large body of most influen-
tial members, numbering upwards of 70, met and passed a
resolution,- urging the leaders of both Parties to combine
in order to the formation of a Whig Government. A
resolution was also about that time passed, desiring Mr.

Pitt to express to the King an earnest desire that the Duke
of Portland, in whom the opposition had confidence, should
have an interview with Mr. Fox, with a view of forming

an administration on a wider and equal basis. On that
word " equal" the whole negotiation went off, and the
opportunity of arbitration was unfortunately lost. He re-
ferred to these facts to show that at no..timpdid those two

great men—Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox—tliink it inconsistent
with their public duty or private honour to unite with the
object of governing the country. (" Hear, hear," from
Lord Derby.) He trusted that these facts would not pass
from the recollection of the house or the country, and that
in whatever danger they might be placed, public men would
not permit private feeling to deter them from joining in
taking part in the government of the country. (Hear.)
The Duke of ARGYLL trusted that the great Conserva•

tive party would see the necessity of putting forth some
definitive views on the subject of reform, as by so doing, ;I
they did not save the Government they would promote ti Le
interests of their country.

The Farl of DERBY said—l should have risen imrt
ie-
diately after the speech of my noble friend who followed. the
mover and seconder of the Address if a noble earl had. not
signified his intention to move an amendment, and I o on-
sidered it more respectful to the noble earl and more si cit-
able to the convenience of your lordships that I should p 3st.
pone my observations until it became my duty, as it cer-
tainly would have been, to object to that amendment. Eub-
sequently the noble earl, I suppose, has seen some reason
to think that it would not 'be expedient to press for a 'divi-
sion, or even to bring under consideration the amend] nent
of which he gave me notice, and I believe has left the In nrse-
(Cheers.) I confess, my lords, that it is with some satis-

faction I feel that I shall not be under the necessity of tres-
passing on your attention for any long time, for, although
the debate has been very lengthened, very able, highly in-
teresting, and highly important, I must say it has been one
of a singularly discursive character—(hear, hear)—and that
(which is peculiar to these debates)—being a debate on the
Speech and Address in answer to the Speech—l have now
listened for a period of about five hours and I have not
heard from any one speaker a single reference to any one
paragraph in the Speech. (Laughter.) I think I may
make one exception in favour, of the noble earl (Earl Gran-
ville). But, now I recollect, he referred to the Speech on
the prorogation of Parliament, so that not one speaker has
referred to the present Speech. (Laughter.)
Earl GRANVILLE—The noble earl is quite right ; I
did make a reference to the Speech.
The Earl of DERBY—Which Speech?
Earl GRANVILLE—This Speech.
The Earl of DERBY—I listened with very great atten-
tion, and did not notice it. It nay have been a distant
allusiori—(laughter)--but there was a paragraph in the
Speech on'the prorogation to which the noble earl thought
it necessary to call your lordships' attention. He appeared
to consider it a matter of impropriety, and almost profane-
ness, that the Minister, in the name of the Sovereign,
should have addressed Parliament in such terms. The noble
earl said that her Majesty was made to express prayers that
the result of the dissolution might be to give the Ministry a
majority, and that the members of the Government did not
rely on the efficacy of prayer, because, like the waggoner in
the fable, they put their .Governmental shoulder to the
wheel most energetically. (Laughter.) There has been a
great deal of nonsense talked about influencing the elections.
My noble friend the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland has disposed
of the compact said to exist with Cardinal Wiseman, and I
'can only say that I am as free with regard to the Govern-
ment on this side of the water as 4 noble friend is with
regard to the Government on the other side of the water
from any compact, agreement, or negotiation, either directly
or indirectly, with Cardinal Wiseman. (Cheers.) This I do
know—that before the late dissolution I was told by Con-
servative Roman Catholics that they were glad to find that
without violating their religious principles, and in accord-
ance with their political principles, they could give a sup-
port to the present Government which they had never been
able to give to former Conservative Governments. (Hear,
hear.) But that was not based on any promise or compact
entered into with Cardinal Wiseman. (Hear, hear.) That,
which we have done we have done in the face of the public
and on no political grounds, unless the obligation which we
felt of doing that which we conscientiously believed to be
right be called a political ground. We found, and it was
subsequently published in a letter from Cardinal Wiseman
to an Irish member, that Roman Catholics were disposed
to give, and did give, their support to the Govern-
ment, because, without any professions or pledges, the
Roman Catholics found they were treated with more
courtesy, more fairness, and more straightforward dealing
in matters affecting their religious feelings by the Govern-
ment than they had ever been by any former Government.
(Cheers.) Ido not believe that the reason for the support
which was given on the one side by the Roman batholici
and obtained by the Government on the other was a reason of
which either need be ashamed. (Cheers.) We have done
for them what they were fairly entitled to from •us in the
discharge of our public duty. We shall continue to pursue the
same course. We shall give them whateverindulgence, and
I would rather say, whatever fair dealing they are entitled
to ; and we shalluot give them one single thing which would
prejudice or impair the interests of the church to which we
belong, and whose interests we feelbound to support. (Hear.)
But if the Roman Catholics are satisfied with a Government
which makes no fair promises,helds out no large expectations,
but which they find deals out real and substantial justice, I
say again neither they nor we ought to be ashamed of the
support which they give. (Cheers.) But, again, with re-
gard to the fact, And more especially with regard to
that support has been of a most divided chaiacter, and at
some Irish elections the Roman Catholic priests have been
more violent than on any former occasion against
the Government candidates. (Hear, hear.) There
has been a report of some fabulous sums, and the
mention of fabulous sums naturally calls to my re-
membrance a right hon. baronet on a Northern hus-
tings. • (Laughter,) That right hon. baronet has already
been subjected to correspondence upon two points, with re-
gard to both of which he was unfortunately led into making
erroneous Statements, and statements entirely contrary to
fact. (Hear, hear.) The one which was the most signal
one was that the Government was about to bribe the Roman
Catholics with I don't know what promises and magnificent
expectations, and the other that the Government did a very-
popular act on the eve of the elections In raising the billet
money for the purpose of obtaining the support of all the
licensed victuallers. It turned out very unfortunately .for
the right hon. baronet that the recommendation to raise
the billet money did• not emanate from the Government.
It may perhaps be considered one of those weak and cul-
pable yieldings to public opinion under the dictation of
a committee of the House of Commons which
the noble earl has condemned, but it so happens
that it was the recommendation of a committee which
sat in the session of last year, that at the commencement
of last session it was announced by the Secretary of War
as intended to be done, that it was introduced into the
Mutiny Act, that it was discussed in Parliatnent on. the
Mutiny Act, and that the Mutiny Act was passed before
there was any thought of a general election. (Cheers.) So
far as to the motive for increasing the billet money.
(Cheers.) We have been told that fabulous sums of money
were subscribed, as one hon. gentleman expressed it, " foully
to pack the new Parliament," and the right hon. baronet
to whom I have adverted—to borrow a phrase from his
Scotch neighbours—" condescended to particulars." Not
satisfied with the general rumour of the hundreds of thou-
sands of pounds which were to come from the Carlton
Club, he specified the precise sum which I myself had
given. (Laughter.) I am quite satisfied of one thing—
that the right hon. baronet has not had access to my
banker's cheque-book. (Laughter.) The right hon. ba-
ronet said I had boasted of having subscribed £20,000 for
the purposes of corruption. I conclude the right hon.
baronet did not invent the statement, but he was the
first to put it in circulation, and I am indebted to
him for having it repeated upon many hustifigs in
the country. What effect it produced there I don't know—
no doubt, on sonic of them, an effect very different from
that which the right hon. baronet expected. (Laughter.)
But, at all events, with regard to this fact, as with regard
.to the others, the fact is that it is no fact at all. I not only
did not subscribe £20,000, nor £lO,OOO, nor £5,000 to the
expenses of the general election, nor to any election at all
in the country, although there was in my own county a
contested election which was carried in a way most satisfac-
tory to the Government, and I believe with the smallest
expenditure that was ever known at such an election. (Hear
hear.) I believe there is no general election occurs at which
gentlemen of both parties do not subscribe certain sums of
money_fur_the wraose of _meeting the legitimate expenses
of those gentlemen of their own party who are not able to
defray them themselves. The noble earl (Earl Clarendon)
opposite I see holds up his hands in astonishment,
but my noble friend must either be a very good
hand at dissimulation, or he is remarkably inno-
cent with regard to the proceedings which have taken
place with both political parties, either in my memory or
during the noble earl's lifetime. But beyond the ordinary
subscriptions which are entered into at every election I
don't believe that in any quarter there has been any extra-
ordinary expenditure. I did not think it necessary to
trouble the right hon. baronet with a third correspondence
—(laughter)—but the present occasion appeared to be a
very fair one for setting him right in the mistakes he made
which had not been previously corrected. (Hear, hear.)
The paragraph in the prorogation Speech, which appears to
have given great offence to my noble friend opposite is this :
Her Majesty prays that; under the blessing of Pivine Pro-
vidence, the step which she is about to take may have the
effect of facilitating the discharge of her high functions, and
enable her to conduct the Government of the country under
the advice of Ministers possessing the confidence of Parlia-
ment." The gloss which my noble friend puts on that is that
her Majesty prays that the effect of the dissolution raf9,l2e to
,
give the present Government a majority. Now,
juyrair
there•was a somewhat similar dissolution at a time
not very different, in consequence of the Government leav-
ing
been put into a minority. The language then put into
her Majesty's mouth by the Government
.of Lord Palmer-
thing which the
sten I finl is much more profane than
.1.1.
noble lord has quoted from the speech
commands us to
for which we are re-
sponsible. It runs thus—" Her Majestyprayer that the seyeral
assure that it is her fervent,.
constituencies of the United Kingdom uapobnewghuoimdeddevboylvaens
the exercise of these high functions. y
all-wise Providence to the selection of representatives whose
wisdom and pliriotisni playaid her Majesty her con-
stant endeavour to maintain the honour of the country,"
(Laughter.) Let us contrast thetm-o sappepelciheses anLdosred_eptoatici.h.
of them the charge of profaneness t the people •
es_ypra., tmay be guided
sten mikes her Itlrtj 1- V
Oewrp
mapsokis iet
basedsiot
yn
to the selection of representatives t who
etiwsesolilsutaneicitarhy(her in up-
holding the honour and dignity of h
l toe telolilntry.
cheers.) But recollect
the
apnptel'ad not
on the ground that I ar !ame
speech to which ray noble friend
in her endeavours to maintain the,. dignity of the country.
But in the prorogation
has alluded, what her Majesty prays is that the step
which she is about to take nay " enable her to conduct the
government of the country
of parliament.,,
the adviee off Ministers
possessed of the confidence arliaruent." (Cheers.) I say
it was the main object of the dissolution to obtain, if pos-
sible, that which all your lordships have declared t obe the
great want of the country at this moment
strong enough to carry on the bnsiness At' tile—Poalw;YeMo7lt
erabarry tsraent Ooverwelit milieu may be able to facin-