The Sun.
London, England, 1835-09-01 00:00:00

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at large, \ass sta.aael th ala is is: s ;nen; rieil
which they eoisl.l • essae;a roof lrey had
beco ap i'.•,! t i ,ase 4 niaa; of no, entants 0;4,
and that the right to pasniciiiat,i ai is •a aa
ss o only t" bell'
qtt red by birth, servitude. or marriage. It appeav et; t()
isnaild be consistent. with respect to the original
ilesti-
nation or this property—at least it would be as near an aP-
pri:ximation to the original destinatisu ;is it was pessible 11'9
arrive at—if the Miaow were to establish this principles--
:namely, that those ~vln) were not now married should not lora-
after by tertsriage derive any right to snrticipate in this pro-.
party ; that thosn :also had not yet entered into servitude should
not have any such rio lit ; but that these who had so entered
into. aarsituae should be considered as having an inchoate right ;
and that Stith respect to birth, those now actually born should
be put upon the same footing as those who had now ac-
tually catered into servitude, while those who should here'
arta; be born shall participate in the property only so far
as they were members of the commonalty at large. '. I be-
lieve that this is not an accurate account of what was stated
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and it seemed to me, when
heard it, to be a very fair announcement of a principle on
which the House might proceed. It was different from the
principle which bad been adopted by the Government; but
we took the declaration of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and
the rale on which the clause should be framed, and the clause
so framed was sent up to the House of Lords, not on the de-
cision simply of a majority of ten, twenty, or even 100 or
Ino—but as the deliberate opinion of the House of Com-
mons at large.—( Hear, hear, hear.) After that decision Ido
think that there was something most unnecessary in the de-
claration inserted by the House of Lords into the preamble
of the Bill—" that the common lands and public stock of such
rities,• towns, and boroughs, and the rents and profits thereof,
have been he;d•and applied for the particular benefit of the
citizens, freemen, and burgesses of the said cities, towns, and
boroughs respectively, or of certain of them, and have not
been applied to public purposes ; and it would be unjust to
deprive such persons .of their rights of property, and to apple
the same to other purposes." Thus to recite in the preambl
of the measure that our proposition is altogethea unjust--
(Hear, hear, and loud cheers)—is, I think, one of that class
of wanton amendments to which I certainly shall not agree.--
(Cheers.) I shall not make any opposition to that part of the,
amendment which reserves the common lands to the sons or
freemen, although I think it an alteration :much for the worse.
I do so on the principle which I have already laid down, er
endeavouring to secure a good municipal government in future.
That part of it, however, which applies to exemption from
tolls, I think most injurious. To the amendment which con-
tinues to freemen the right of voting for Members of Parlia-
ment I shall not propose to disagree. I stated my objec-
tion to the proposal when it was made to this House ;
it is not a question immediately connected with the ga-
vestment of Corporations. There is one amendment, how-
ever, not affecting the future good government of the towns
—one incidental to the Bill, and from which great prac-
i tical harm would not, indeed, result ; but which is, at the
same time, so repugnant to principle, that I cannot con-
sent to ask the House to agree to it—l mean that by which
it is proposed that none of the governing body of Municipal
Corporations should present to livings, except such as arc
members of the Church of England.—( Loud cries of " Hear. )
It will be recollected by many, that when I proposed the re-
peal of the Test and Corporation Acts, a declaration was pro-
posed by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, to be taken bY,
all persons in lieu of the sacrament of the Lord's Supper.l
agreed to that proposition, on tae ground that it was a declara-
tion to be taken alike by Churchman and Dissenter, and tha"t
it would not establish any odious line of separation, by requi
ing from the Dissenter one declaration, and from the Church'
man another—and thus instituting an inquiry into a man's re'
ligious state. Considering the great principle which was the°
established, I do think that by departing from it as proposedbY
the amendment of the Lords, not only would considerable disc
satisfaction be created between two bodies of the Council, 11
that in fact a state of religious dissension would be fomented
and kept alive. On this question, therefore, I feel it my clittY
to oppose the amendment of the Lords. I have now goo
through the various amendments of importance which have
been made by the Lords, and I have stated to the House thet
view which I take in connection with them. I shall propose ills
we postpone those early amended clauses, and at once
if
teed to that which continues the present aldermen for le,
which, as I have said, in my opinion, is liable to insuperable
objections. I have stated other amendments to which obje'
tion can also be made, but I trust that by the various CO
cessions which his Majesty's Government are disposed te
make on this subject, I have shown that they are not unwilliag
to come to some settlement on the subject of this Bill, which
which shall not prevent the future good government of Canso:
rations, and which shall not lower the dignity tar impair thy
character of either House of Parliament. But if these eolvf
cessions shall not be deemed sufficient, and if the House °
Lords insist on other amendments, I shall not regret the con
I have taken.—(Hear, hear.) I have been anxious in poi
testing against any course taken by the other House to guars,
the rights and dignity of this House ; but I think that no le;
of dignity or character will ensue to us, if we show that svo.aro
ready to discuss in a temperate tone, and retreating from
of our own professions, those amendments which have be
made in the other House of Parliament, I think that if the Pre-
sent constitution of this country—the constitution of the threee
estates—is to continue, it is only in this manner that 'lt
can hope to see great legislative improvements effected- „
have been of opinion that before the Reform Bill, and sines
the Reform Bill, great reforms were necessary, and that the':
were great and notorious abuses which required to be corree'c
ed.—( Cheers.) But, Sir, it is my wish, and I believe it is tba
wish of the great majority of the Members of this House, an
of the people of this country, that these reforms should b:t
carried into effect in a spirit of peace—(Loud cheers)--n
disturbing the occupations and not interfering with the indesr-,
try of the people on the one hand, and without, on the otbei,
curtailing the constitutional powers bestowed on either bran,
of the Legislature.—( Hear.) I have seen nothing,p.
of
standing the angry discussions which have occurred relati,;eo
to this measure and with respect to some of the amendinel
which have been made in it, to induce me to give up
tio
great and consoling hope that reform can be effected in t
manner; but if it should not be so effected—if Ibe distil;
pointed in this hope—it will never be a source of regret ts 020
as the friend of reform and the advocate of improvement, !Pt°
I have not insisted on any extreme right, and that I wishec.'
carry these improvements into effect on terms of conciliator,
and in the sincere desire that the constitution of this countsat
may be preserved and perpetuated. (The Noble Lord cos
down amidst loud cheering, which was continued for 5°
time.) 110
Sir R. PEEL began by observing that the Noble L°l' far
the speech which he had just delivered was pleased ow
to compliment him as to express some satisfaction at his
_„
ing present for the purpose of taking a part in their deliber's
tons on that occasion ; and if that satisfaction was foundeabliig
the belief that he should aid in making a settlement eft so
question—(so far as his humble powers might enable blots
to do)—that he should aid that settlement which
limo
perfectly consistent with the honour, the dignity, and hie
independence of both Houses of Parliament—the
Lord did him but justice in attributing to him the '1(10
tives which at present actuated him.—( Cheers.) ao
feel it to be his duty to be present at the discussion, becanscnor
did entertain a hope that there were elements for a satisfaeti"o,
arrangement on this subject. He appeared also for resist; it
in case it should be made—though he did not exPecyja
would be made,—and the tone of the Noble Le'fas
speech almost convinced him that it would not be made cep
the purpose, he repeated, of resisting, if it should have vacs
made, any measure or resolution calculated in the slightest 'of
gree to interfere with the honour or independent character)
either branch of the Legislature.—(Loud opposition charm
In the maintenance of that independent action he believe tubs
prosperity of this country, and its good legislation to be of
mately involved ; and he did not hesitate to pay the Honnse'tis
which he had the honour to be a member, the willing Ow, fp,
silent of believing that, notwithstanding the menaces an° on
nunciations of the Press, their superior judgment woody,
vail, and that a vast majority of them would refuse to rst
party to ally proceeding calculated to destroy, or whicol
least would afford a precedent for the ultimate destructinor
that happily mixed and tempered form of Government Ono,
which we have so long lived.—( Renewed cheers from the 11.0`,4
position.) Much of the Noble Lord's speech, he was betnd
to say, he had heard with great satisfaction ; but he was b.°o
also to say that there were some parts of it which lie Ivrea,
r; ere omitted, because they interrupted what, but for 1j to
wooLd have been perfectly harmonious. He had all'veliish
the coutZe pursued by the other House in a manner Ipso
he aoosnieraal hardly justifiable. (Loud cries of „pbr
hear ! " from gie Opposition, followed by cries of ost
oh !" from the li;nisterial benches.) He repoateo,,_bis,
lie thought the languag
if it were only that the ts:
of the Noble Lord not jusitil..arf
tcrized the part of the Noble
ne and temper whitni en,4.
Lord's speech in sylner'siceco,
alluded to the House of Lords 'ware not in concdt' 501
with the sentiments expressed in the remainder ef lo'acte
appeared to be the result of a departure from its .g or
tenour.—(llear, hear.) It was scarcely, in ;:is oPln.lc-ab e%:f
cessary to allude so minutely, and with such tlet',lo„se °
planation, as to the course of proceeding in the P
.opoly
Lords, and to throw upon the House of Lords the par°
sibility of certain expressions used by the counsel vb.° tise:i
admitted to speak in defence of the Corporations 81' one •
bar.—( Continued cheers from the Opposition, accoolP Sot'
by cries of " Oh, oh," from the Ministeriai benches.),,i, opts
withstanding these interruptions to that express:nii 01. 000;
nuns, which was prompted by the sincere desire oi ee-of limit
ting in an attempt to effect an amicable settlement be fc'
question, he should persevere in the course which tod 004'
hound to pursue, and express his opinions decidedlY ',th i 0
equivocally on those points in which lie concurred vi'
to e for
differed from the Noble Lord ; and if he found e: by tlce
censure in any of the doctrines held and expresscla iii
Noble Lord with reference to this measure, he ions olio°
spectful terms convey that censure ; for he was det'ili tijor‘,
to assert the privilege of free discussion, without wbic,,coss.)
would be an end to all useful debate.—(General ea'oea to.
It appeared that the House of Lords had cleterleiroal
permit the hearing of counsel ; and here he toiightflowert
the Noble Lord opposite, that one of the most ronotita
supporters of the Bill in the other House of par% r. ao
one who had held the high office of Lord Chance
a°s--,re:
who was a distinguished Member of the House of Ll.
himself a party to this proceeding by which it was eg,7 o
1000
counsel should be heard at the bar of that House. The Ist al
Lords might be right or wrong in hearing counsel a,g leloorgv
Bill ; but he apprehended that their consent to h
, bossii.co
could not be held necessarily to imply a cletermin 'cat t
„acs-j°l;
to the measure, when the hearing of counsel, and t" tootle'
of them, were agreed to and made by one of the most s
coos:
advocates of the measure.—(Cheers.) \Veil, thel'it.,alientis
being admitted to plead at the bar in behalf of eertly aiface,a
it must be obvious that it would have been catreine ;4)1,i
to restrict those cOunci ,o the use of such ei'." •