The Sun.
London, England, 1859-07-05 00:00:00

JUDGE} BILL.

On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. LOCKE KING moved as an amendment that it be
read a second time that day six months:
After some discussion the amendment was withdrawn,
and the bill was read a second time. -

DIPLOMATIC PENSIONS.
Mr. M. MILNES obtained leave to bring in a .bill to
remove doubts as to tho qualification of persons holding
diplomatic pensions to sit in Parliament.
THE THAMES.

Sir M. PETO moved for leave to bring in a bill to pro-
vide-for the prevention of noisome effluvia from the River
Thames within the metropolis. He said he did not mean
to impeach any blame to the metropolitan board, nor in any
way to shackle them in the discharge of their duties, and
he also proposed to give them additional powers if neces-
sary.
Lord J. MANNERS did not intend to oppose the intro-
duction of this measure, but he thought that its title was a
misnomer. Instead of a bill to "provide for the prevention
of noisome effluvia from the river Thames within the me-
tropolis," it appeared to him to be a bill to require the Me-
tropolitan Board of Works to Make a great many returns.
which no one would read. He must enter a caveat against
being supposed to patronise such legislation. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. V. SHELLEY expressed a hope that if the house
desired to have these expensive returns from the Metro-
poiitan Board of Works it would not throw upon the rate--
payers of the metropolis the cost of their preparation, and
protested against the Home Secretary being allowed to
exercise any authority over the proceedings of that Board.
Mr. TITE assured the house that the board had ample
powers, and they bad also the strongest desire to take effi-
eient steps to remedy the gigantic evil with which they had
to contend. In order to show the feeling with which they
were animated, it would only be necessary for him to state
that last year, although they had not the powers which the
legislature subsequently conferred upon them, they .spent no
less than £5,000 in limp for deodorising the sewers. A per-
manent cure could only be found ix a graeat system of main
drainage ; and from the progress which had already been
made he thought it probablethat that system would be com-
pleted in three years instead of five. (Hear, hear.) One
large sewer was contracted for in February last, and ane-
fifth of it was alreadrinade. That sewer, which would be
finished in June next, would drain the Hackney Brook dis-
trict, a source of enormous annoyance. Another very large
sewer on the other side of the river had just been contracted
for. With regard to the present state of the Thames, he
must remind the house that there were .now discharged
into it 80,000,000 gallons of sewage water, which contained
600 tons of mud, or 200 tons of solid matter. This sewage
was not only in ti state of putrefaction itself, but it was a
cause of putrefaction to the mass into which it was poured.
The board had appointed two of the most eminent chemists of
the day to experiment on the best mode of deodorising the
contents of the drains; and they had also appointed, since
May last, Dr. Miller (Professor of Chemistry in the 'Uni -
varsity of London), to report to them daily on the state of
the river and of the great sewers. At the present moment
the board had no fewer than 30 stations at which they could
pour in lime water, which was all that in the present state
of their knowledge they could do. But Dr. Miller was en •
gaged in a series of experiments, in order to see if a better
disinfectant than lime could not be found for this temporary
use. Last week Dr. Miller suggested some other deodorising
agents, and the board were prepared to adopt those other
agents, even if they threw an additional expense upon the
ratepayers. (Hear, hear.) The board were sincerely anxious
to discharge the duty imposed upon them, and any inter-
ference by the legislature would tend rather to embarrass
than assist them. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ANGERSTEIN said a report was current that the
high level sewer was intended to discharge its contents into
Deptford Creek. He trusted that it was not intended to
sacrifice a considerable portion of the metropolitan district
in the way suggested.
Mr. M'CANN complained of the abominable 'stench
which on Sunday last was emitted from the opening at
Charing-cross through lime which was put into the sewer.
The smell rendered- the rooms at Morley's Hotel almost
unbearable. (A laugh.)
Mr. RIDLEY said that a fews hours after the rise of the
tide the effluvium from the river was so bad that the win
dews had to 1 eelosed, and there was•reason to apprehend
that i
publ. c business would be seriously interrupted. If it
continued t must again endanger the health of hon. mem-
bers; as to his knowledge it had done last year.
Mr. CONINGHAM considered that the system which
had been adopted in the drainage of the metropolis was not
founded on right principles. He had no doubt that the use
of lime weld prove a signal failure.
Mr. LOCKE (Southwark) was the only member who
last year objected io the measure proposed in a great hurry
by her Majesty's then advisers for the purpose of handing
over all responsibility9onnected with the river to the Board
of Works. He was informed that the plan the Board of
Works had adopted was to divert the course of all streams
that were net particularly offensive, and to make them run
into the Thames below bridge. It was, therefore, extremely
likely that these operations would only increase the evil.
Mr. GTNIFFITH said he had made inquiries as to the
and he found prom the men employed in
smell coniplained of by' the hon. member for Drogheda
the lime operations that it answered very
B(l4dulpre.riMnt‘e.Cnandinn)g.;
well so long as it was kept at work-, but on Saturday they

left off pouring in the lime water. It appeared to him that
no plan of main drainage would answer unless the river
was also embanked. It was found that the smell was worst
when the tide began to disturb the mud banks ; a circum-
stance which _showed that the removal of those banks was

even more required than new drains. (He,ar, hear.)
Alderman CUBITT said the Board of Works had been
proceeding with all possible despatch ever since they had
received their new powers ; but it must be remembered
that those powers were not conferred upon them till late
last session, and that time was needed to prepare their plans.
All that was now required was a little patience ; for it was
impossible that great works like these could be carried out
in a few months. (Hear, hear.) He hoped, however, that
in three or four years the scheme would be completed, and
that the noxious effluvia of which they had now to com-
plain would be removed.. He begged to state with refer-
ence to the high level sewer that it was never intended that
it should empty itself into Deptford Creek. The board had
merely taken Deptford Creek as a point to which it should
be constructed until proper machinery could be constructed
to convey the sewage lower. (Hear, hear.) As to the
smell at Charing-cross on Sunday, that had arisen from
the sewer having been accidentally left uncovered.
The SPEAKER then put the motion that leave should
be given to bring in the bill, and the noes appeared to pre-
powlerat?. The right hon. gentleman having put the ques-
tion a second time, and with the same result, declared that
the noes had it. Some amusement was caused by Sir M.
Peto rising to challenge his decision a few seconds after-
wards, when it was too late. The hon. gentleman had evi-
dently let the moment for demanding a division pass from
pure inadvertence.
PICTURE GALLERIES.
Mr. ',COWPER moved for an address for copies of all
letters and memorials addressed to the Committee of

Council on Education, or the Trustees of the National

Gallery, with reference to the admission of the public in
the evening to the Turner and Vernon Galleries of pictures

and of the answers thereto. He thought the public should
have the fullest opportunities of visiting these collections,
which unfortunately was not the case. They were now
being placed by the Trustees of the National Picture
Gallery in rooms in which no provision was made for the
admission of the public. He wished to call the atten-
tion of the house to this matter, in order that what was
necessary for the education and improvement of the people
might be done. The intention of the generous donors
should be carried out to, the fullest extent. A picture gal-
lery to be seen to the greatest advantage seould be seen in
the evening, and that was the best time for the working
classes and for Visitors to the metropolis. It was, therefore,
the duty of the trustees to open up these collections in the
evening. He did not know the motives of the trustees for
refusing this permission, but one reason was, that if they
opened these galleries they must also open the National
Gallery. He could not see the force of that reason. The
rule should be the freest access at all times. No danger
could arise from the use of gas, for the galleries could be
lihhted from the roof in the same way in which that house
was lighted. (Hear, hear:) That would cause some addi-
tional expenditure, but ho thought the house would give
any reasonable sum of money for that purpose for the benefit
of the public, and he gusted that when the papers were laid
on the table of the house the attention of the trustees would
be called to the manner in which they were discharging
their trust, and take a more extended view of their duty for
the benefit of the country at large.
The address was ageed to.
Mr. DUNLOP obtained leave to bring in a bill to afford
means for the more certain ascertainment of the law ad-
ministered in one part of her Majesty's dominions when
pleaded in the courts of another part thereof.
PUBLIC HEALTH.

Mr. LOWE obtained leave to bring in a bill to make
perpetual the Public Health Act (1858).
PRIVY COUNCIL ORDERS. •

Mr. LOWE obtained leave to bring in a bill to provide

for the authentication of certain orders of the Privy Coun-
cil in the absence of the clerk of the council in ordinary,
havin...previously stated 'that it was not the intention of
her Majesty to fill up the dletkship of the Privy Council
rendered vacant by the resignation of Mr. Greville.
MILITARY ORGANISATION. _

Mr. S. HERBERT moved for a select committee to in-
'quire into the effects of the alterations in military organi-
sation regarding the War-office and Board of Ordnance
which were made in the year 1855 ; and also to inquire
whether any changes were required to secure the utmost
efficiency and economy in the administration of. military

affairs.
The motion was agreed to.
Colonel DUNNE said he had given notice of his inten-
tion to move for a select committee, which was, to a great
extent, for the same purposes as those proposed by the right
hon. gentleman. His object was, however, principally to
inquire into the organisation of the civilian departments of
the War-office, which were at present very inefficient ; but
he would not attempt to take the question out of the very
able hands of the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for
War, and he should, therefore, postpone his motion.
General PEEL said he could not agree with the descriv-
tion which his hon. and gallant friend had given of certain
departments of the War-office. On the contrary, they were
in the highest state of efficiency at the present moment, and
ready to peform any duty that might devolve upon them.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HORSMAN said he could see no hope of the in-
quiry being brought to a close during the short period which
still remained of the present session ; and, as a member,
of the former committee, he would appeal to his right hon.
friend whether, upon a question of such extent and import-
ance, they would not really gain time by postponing the
appointment of the cbmmittee until the beginning of next
session.
Captain JERVIS said that many alterations and im-
provements might be made, and, where necessary, by order
in Council, without waiting for the report or the recom-
mandations of the select committee. Time would thus be

saved.
Mr. MONSELL concurred with his right hon. friend the
member for Stroud in thinking that it would be much hater
to postpone the appointment of the committee until next
session. It was utterly impossible, in the short time before
them, that they could go fully into the • many important
questions with which they would be engaged. In fact,
they would not be able to get further than a mere prelimi-
nary statement of the organisation of the department, and
to have no time to take evidence, or to hear both sides of
the question. lle urged his right hon. friend to postpone
the committee.
Mr. S. HERBERT said, in reply, that the very vastness
and importance of the subject constituted one strong reason
in his mind for going on with the inquiry at once. (Hear,
hear.) They might, though late in the season, have some
eight sittings of the committee ; and he was most anxious,
at the earliest moment, to have the defebts of the depart-
ment pointed out, as well as the most practical remedies for
these defects where they existed. He hoped, therefere, his
right hon. friends would withdraw their °plows:lion.
Colonel LINDSAY
thought it wets-much better to ap-
point the committee at once; but he trusted that in its for-
mation the right hon. gentleman would deal more fairly
with the military profession, and not place such a prepon-
derance of civilians upon it, as there had been upon former
committees.
Mr. DISRAELI was of opinion that there were very
cogentireasons for postponing the appointment of this com-
mittee at the present moment. When the right hon. gen-
tleman was formerly in office he had introduced a great
many changes. his hon. and gallant friend the late Secre-
tary for War (General Peel) had also made many alterations,
and it would be in his opinion judicious to delay the ap-
pointsnent of the committee until next session, in order to
test the practical working of these changes. If the com-
mittee was now appointed, and held only a few sittings, say
seven or eight, as mentioned by the right hon. gentleman,
the result would be the publication of evidence on one side
only, and in an imperfect form, whereas if the committee
did not commence till next session, the inquiry could be
conducted more satisfactorily and snore fully.
Lord PALMERSTON said the Government had no de-
sire either to prejudge or unduly press this matter, but hay-
Sing been himself a maraber of the late committee before the
dissolution, he could state that the committee had taken a
great deal of evidence, which it was very important should
he laid before the house, and if the committee were now re-
appointed and had a few sittings, the evidence taken by
them might also be presented, together with that previously
taken. The committee in the meantime need not inquire
into the alterations . made by the right lion. and gallant
member opposite, which could be taken up when the inquiry
was resumed next-session. He hoped the house would not
lose the remaining portion of the present session, or vir-
tually shelve an, important question by postponing it.
The motion was then agreed to. -
DIVORCE BILLS.

Mr. S. ESTCOU ELT, in the absence of C01..W. Patton,
moved the nomination of the select committee on Divorce
Bills :—Mr. Walpole, Mr. Sotheron Estcourt, Sir John
Pakington, Mr. Hcadlam, Mr. Bonham Carter, Mr. Mellor,
Mr. G. Clive, Mr. Adderley, Mr. Steel, and Mr. Hussey
Packo.

Mr. BO ERIE said it was high time that Parliament
should do something in the matter, ani for his own part he
warningave the right hon. gentleman opposite that he
should strenuously oppose any legislation in that house with
respect to particular divorces.
After a few words from Mr. S. EsTcounT,
Mr. M'CANN said there had been some talk among
members on both sides of the house, about extending the
Divorce Bill to Ireland. If the Irish members had thought
such an intention existed, they would never have allowed it
to pass. (A laugh.)
The moticn was agreed to.
CONTRACTS guBLIC DEPARTMENTS.)

Col. DUNNE milted for the appointment of a ;.;eleCt
commit tee to inquire into the principle adopted for making-
contracts for the public departments, and the effect which
the present system has upon the expenditure of 'public
money.
Mr. 5..11E RBERT- asked if the hon. and gallant member
would define any limits to the inquiry. The first committee
was appointed in 1853, and seine of its members had since-
left the house, not being returned by their constituents,
while others had gone to another world. The house
recommended a committee which had been appointed and
made no report ; unless there was a definite limit, the in-
quiry would be protracted until it ended in nothing.
Col. DUNNE said he did not want any further extension
of the inquiry, but simply the gathering together of the
mass of evidence already taken. He would not introduce
any new topics. As to the report of the committee, he be-
lieved it would never be made, because it had to be founded
on the books at Weedon, and it was impossible to make
them up.
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. S. HERBERT brought up the supplementary army
estimates.
Mr. BRAND brought up the navy estimates.
The various bills for the introduction of which leave had
been given, were read a first time, and .the house adjohrned
at five minutes to seven o'clock.

•
We have much pleasure in stating that Lord
Palmerston has appointed Mr. Fleming, for many years
Assistant-Seere,,fary of the Poor Law Board, to the office of
permanent Secretary, in the room of Lord Devm, resigned.
THE Inisit n
FisEntr,s.—The Report on Ii 7h
Fisheries for IS:5.f, was published yesterday. The sea-coast
fishery does not, unfortunately, appear to be in that pro-
irressive state of general improvement which might be de-
sired. In some localities, where the means of transit by
steam are available, an activity in capture, and an increase
in business, are perea:itible. The languid state of the Irish
fisheries is attributed in a '(rtelt measure to the want of
curing establisheients. In districts remote from railway
and.steam-boat- communication, there is no constant and
steady demand fur soa -fish, and. the sale depends on the
casual requirements of the neighbourhood, the vendors be-
ing at the mercy of the purchasers as far as price is con-
cerned. Some of the oyster fisheries, created under the
. powers invested in the commissioners for granting licenses
to private parties to form artificial layings. or beds, have
prospered, and it is anticipated that this success may stimu-
late others to embark in similar operations, more especially
as the supply of this description of food falls short of the
demand. The salmon fisheries present a more flourishing
condition, and ire progressively improving. The laws are
better observed, and, where it becomes necessary to enfdree
them, more vigorously administered than heretofore.