The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-20 00:00:00

not give up a document which he considered the House had no
sight to demand.
Mr. WARBURTON remarked that the first step that
ought to be taken was to see whether Colonel Fairman per-
sisted in refusing to produce the book.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought that the House should
narrow the inquiry as much as possible. The only question
the House had to determine was, whether the witness should
be allowed to persist in refusing to produce the book. He
should have a question put to him on that point.
Sir R. H. INGLIS should persist in moving that the
evidence taken before the Committee be read to the witness.
The House then divided—
For the motion
Against it
. . .

lajority against it —llo
On our return to the Gallery we found the witness under
examination at the Bar.
By Mr. SHAW—The book he had furnished to the Com-
mittee he had found at the office belonging to the Orange
Society ; he was not directed to prepare the book he refused
to produce by the Orange Society, but had written it at his
own discretion. Many of the letters contained in this book
were written in his private capacity, and had no reference to
the Orange Institution. The book was certainly not a conti-
nuation of any other book. Had, when first examined before
the Committee, no objection to produce extracts from this
book relating to Orange Lodges ; but, from what had taken
place since, he entertained insuperable objections to do so at
all, both as regarded military as well as civil lodges. He did
so, not from any desire for concealment respecting Orange
lodges—he should hardly care one halfpenny as regarded the
Orange Society, if the contents of this book were made known
from Hyde-park corner to Whitechapel, but on public prin-
ciple he resisted the production of the book ; two or three
days ago he did not entertain the same feeling, but when a
threat was used he considered it a matter of principle to resist;
the only reason that induced him now to refuse was a feeling
of resistance against what he considered to be an improper in-
fluence ; if he were again examined before the Committee, and
was called upon to produce the book, the probability was that
he should not produce it.
By Mr. WARBURTON--He persisted in refusing to pro-
duce it ; the book was now in his own possession.
The witness was then ordered to withdraw.
Mr. WALLACE said that there were precedents which
would direct the House as to the course to be pursued in the
present case. He would refer to one exactly in point. At
the time the House was occupied with the inquiry into the
conduct of the Duke of York, in the disposal of commissions,
one of the witnesses at the bar refused to produce certain do-
cuments in his possession. It was then moved in Committee
that Captain Huxby Sandon, having refused to produce cer-
tain papers, should be reported to the House. The House
resumed, and Captain Sandon wai ordered to be taken into
the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms. The Sergeant-at-
Arms was then directed to accompany Captain Sandon to
his lodgings, and to search them for all papers having any
connexion with the subject matter of the inquiry--and to
bring all such papers, with the prisoner, back to the
House.—( Hear.) On this being done, Mr. Whartcn,
the Chairman, reported that the Committee of the whole
House recommended that the whole of the papers found et
Captain Sandon's lodgings should be referred to a Select Con-
mittee, to select such papers as were considered necessary t,)
be referred to the House. This was accordingly done. IL
( Mr. Wallace) intended to propose that a similar course be
pursued with regard to Colonel fairman. That he in the fir: t
place be taken into custody; and should then move that t',
Sergeant at Arms proceed to his lodging, and bring back
1330 k referred to, as wed as all other papers ret•erring to the
Orange Institution. If the wit.ie,s persisted in refusing tv
produce the book he should certainly adopt this course. lie
concluded with moving that Colonel Fairman be taken into
custody of the Sergeant at Arra-
Mr. C. PELHAM was understood to say, that the cutti,,g
of a man's head off at the will of a Monarch, was net a
arbitrary act than it would be to insist on the production of
private papers.
Mr. H. WALL lay:Jig Fa. i he wished to put some qu-s-
-tion. to Colonel Fairman, he was re-called. and examined by
the Hon. Gentleman.
1 wish to ask whether there is i❑ your possession any oft.•r
book, than that whi±:ii you dcclilie to deliver, in which you h:, ye
kept any of the minutes of the proceedings of the Orni,,;:e
Lodges since you have been connected with them ?—No,:e
whatever.

Can you remember the date of the last entry of the bc..k
delivered in ?—No.
The book delivered in, you found in the archives of }'c ::r
Lodge ?—Yes.
Have you aay objection to state he date of the first en r
in the book, which )ou refuse to :eliver iu ?—I cannot st,.te
from memory ; I should have no objection to do so, if 1 coul
Is the date 1831 ?—Certainly not. It is more probah'y
1835.

Do you mean the House to understand that between 181!
and 1835 there were no minutes kept of the proceedings of the.
Orange Lodges 7—No ; I mean that there were not for six or
seven months together.
Examined by Mr. WARBURTON—Where is the book ?
—lt is in my own possession
Where is 3our own possession ? At my cottage.
Where is your cottage—( Oppwition cries of " No," an-
swered by loud cries of " Hear, hear.")—ln Surrey.
At what place in Surrey—(Cries of " Oh 1" and " Hear")
which prevented the reply from being heard distinctly—e
give what we heard of it.)—l have no objection to say where
my cottage is ; I shall be happy to see the Hon. Gentle:lnel,
if he will call on me—(Loud cries of " Withdh aw.")
The witness having withdrawn,
Mr. SHAW thought the Housc not justified in pursuing ae
inquiry of this kind ; its object was clear, and he contended
that it would be a most unheard-of and tyrannical course for
the Honse to pursue, to send its officer to the private residence
there to seize the private papers of this witness—( Opposi 60.1
.cheers.) He really had not thought the Hor. Member f.r
Greenock serious when he proposal to send an officer to the
witness's private house for his book.--( Hear, hear.) The
witness had said that he objected to give up the book because
it contained that which was private • the object of the Hen.
Gentleman, therefore, was not to obtain public information,
but either to satisfy his personal curiosity, or to revenge him-
self on the witness for his refusal.—( Cries of " Order," and
" Chair.") What he had said he meant to use only in the wiy
of argument. If he was wrong, let the Hon. Member explain
what his object was.
Mr. WALLACE rose, amidst cries of " Order !" I am
asked to explain.—( Order ! hear ! and a laugh.) The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman called on me to explain—( Order !
and hear 1)
The SPEAKER, we believe, put it to the Hon. and
Learned Member, whether he wished the Hon. Member for
Greenock to explain now ?
Mr. SHAW said the Hon. Member would have an oppor-
tunity of .explaining after he had concluded. He could net
help thinking that some Hon. Gentlemen would be much dis-
appointed if they did obtain the hook ; for their object ap-
peared to be, not so much-possession of the book, as to send
the witness to Newgate.—( Order, and cheers.)
An HoN. MEMBER found it exceedingly difficult to keep his
seat, while the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was making such
charges against Hon. Members on his side of the House.—
( Cheers.) Were they, sitting as judges, to be told by a judge
—(Cheers)—that their object was revenge? Were they, sit-
ting as judges, to be told that their object was personal curio-
sity, or they were prompted by a feeling of resentment to send
an individual to Newgate ?_( Cheering.) He must beg the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman to recollect himself a little.—
(Cheers.) Were the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to be
sitting in the judgment-seat, he would not like to have it im-
puted to himself that he was governed by such feelings and
principles.
Mr. SHAW would withdraw the observations he had made,
which were considered objectionable.
Mr. WALLACE believed that his conduct in that House,
and out of it, would bear comparison with that of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman at any time.—( Hear, hear.) He
would add, that the remarks which the on. and Learned
Gentleman had made regarding him were totally and positively
unfounded. He had never forgot himself, as the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had.—(Order, and hear.)
Mr. METHUEN did not think that the Hon. and Learned
Member seriously meant to impute revengeful feelings to
others.

Sir J. TYRRELL begged to bring the House back to
the subject for its consideration, which was, whether it would
persist in putting the question to Colonel Fairman ? He
wished to remind them that there was no charge against this
witness, notwithstanding which, it was contemplated to send
him to Newgate.—(No, no.) He understood the Hon.
Member for Greenock to have given notice that he would
move that the witness be taken into the custody of the Ser-
jeant-at- Arms.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished to
call the attention of the House to the exact position in which
this question stood. The examination by the Hon. Member
for Bridport was in strict conformity with the precedents to
be found on the journals of the House ; and after that exami-
nation was concluded, it would be open to the House to de-
cide what further steps they should take with regard to the
book. They had no right to object to a course of examina-
tion, founded on Parliamentary precedent, from an apprehen-
sion that they might not approve of the course with which it
might be proposed to follow up that examination. First the
examination should be proceeded with ; then they would de-
termine whether the book ought to be produced or not ; and
if their decision were in the affirmative, and the witness re-
fused to produce it, they would next consider what further
steps should be taken.
Mr. SHAW rose and said a few words, which were ren-
dered inaudible by repeated cries of " Spoke."
Colonel SIBTHORP expressed his deep regret that the
book was not in his possession; if it were, he would try the
question with the House.—( Shouts of laughter and groans.)
He would see whether any one should enter his private cham-
ber to carry into effect a tyrannical resolution.—( Cheers and
laughter, and " Ohs.") They might pride themselves (said
the Hon. and Gallant Member with great vehemence) on their
numbers, but he could tell them that strength did not depend
on numbers, but on individual resolution and determination—
(Much laughter, and errs of " Oh I")
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that the witness be recalled.
An HON. MEMBER suggested that the short-hand writer
should read the two or three last questions and answers.
Mr. Gurney read them accordingly. They were to the effe:.t
we have already stated, with the addition that the witness had
stated his residence was at Portland-cottage, Mount-gardens,
Lambeth. This answer appeared to have been heard only by
the short-hand writer, who was seated close by the witness.
The reading of it excited great laughter.
The witness, who had been ordered to withdraw in order that
the House might consider whether the answer should or should
uot be required from him, now appeared at the Bar.