The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-21 00:00:00

ORANGE LODGES.

Mr. HUM E reported from the Committee on Orange
Lodges that Colonel Fairman had refused to produce
the book, as required -by the order of that House. The
Hon. Member then moved, agreeably to precedent, that
the Speaker do issue his warrant, and that Colonel Fairman be
committed to Newgate, for having committed a breach of the
privileges of that House.
Mr. MAXWELL, as, a Member of the Committee on
Orange Lodges, had waited with other Hon. Members upon
Col. Fairman, and stated that he ought to have complied with
the orders of that House, but Col. Fairman bad refused to do so.
Mr. R. PL LTNK ETT said the Irish Orange Lodge bad
given up its books.
Mr. Sergeant J4CKON said the secretary of the Grand

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Orange Lodge in Ireland had delivered up all the books, even
of a private character, upon being required by the Committee.
The question was then put that Colonel Fairman had been
guilty of a breach of the privileges of the House, and carried.
Mr. HUME then moved that Colonel Fairman be com-
mitted to his Majesty's gaol of Newgate—that was consequent
upon the last Resolution. •
The question was put and carried without comment.
Mr. HUME put it to the House whether the Committee,
of which he had the honour to be Chairman, was to be
stopped from proceeding any further in their inquiries,
which had already been of so much benefit to the public.
Without that book they could go no further. His own opi-
nion was, that the book ought to be got by some means ; how-
ever, that was in the hands of the House, and he would bow
to its decision.
Mr. WARB URT ON said, that looking to the precedent cited
by the Hon. Member for Greenock ( Mr. Wallace) last night, he
was still of opinion that the book ought to be got one way or
another. The Hon. Member then went on to advert to a number of
cases in which books and papers had been seized by an order
of the House. On referring to the debates with respect to
the Duke of York, he did not see a single doubt expressed
that the House had the power to seize any books or
papers that were withheld. In order that the House might
have something specific to act upon, he would move that the
Sergeant-at-Arms should immediately go and secure them.
Lord J. RUSSELL—UnIess the Hon. Member wished to
press his motion to a division, he submitted to him whether,
upon a question of this kind, it would not seem as if the House
was disposed to assert their power ?
Mr. WARBURTON—If the sense of the House was
against him he would not press a division. He merely wished to
afford Members an opportunity of giving their opinions upon
the subject.
The SPEAKER made some observations which were not
heard in the Gallery, and
Mr. WARBURTON then moved that this House do now
adjourn, merely to give Members an opportunity of expressing
their opinions.
Mr. WALLACE remarked, that it was not his wish that.
Colonel Fairman should be sent to Newgate, but his desire
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was, that the book should be produced before the Committee.
Mr. HARDY remarked that the cases cited did not apply
to the present case. In the South Sea bubble, there had
been a conspiracy against the interests and property of thee
country.—( Hear, and cheers from the Ministerial Members.)
The parties in that case were charged with fraud.—(Hear,
from the Opposition Members.) Some of them, who were
Members, we-re expelled that House, and it was under such
circumstances that an order had been made to search for pa-
pers. Besides, this appeared to be a private book kept.. by an
individual, and there was no precedent for Courts of Justice
sending for papers. The person who kept the book, and who
wrote in it was there, and was willing to give testimony
respectin7, it.

FIUME observed, that it was evident from what the

Right Hon. Gentleman had said that he had not listened to
the proceedings that had taken place. The House had already
eeme to a resolution that the book ought to be produced.
The. Hon. Gentleman might call it a private book, but it was
admitted that it coat pined official matters referred- to in the
inquiry.

HARDY expla;ned.

Sir R. INGLIS said that the Speaker having recommended
a cessation of the discussion, that recommendation should be
complied with by him. He protested, however, against being
held hound by the precedents that had been cited.
After a few words from Mr. PR YNIE,
Mr. AG L lONBY had no wish that this person should be
sent to prison. He should prefer seeing the ends of justice
satisfied by producing the evidence ; and, after the several
precedents that had been cited, the book, he considered, should
be produced.
Mr. SHAW thought that it having been decided that the
book should be produced, Col. Fairman was bound to obey the
order of the House.
Mr. HUME stated that if his Hon. Friend would withdraw
his motion, he would try whether the House would have the
courarre to support its Committees. He would give notice
that he would move the House to-morrow to obtain possession
of the books.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no hesitation whatever in

saying !hat the House had the power upon great and extraor-
dinary occasions, such as the South Sea case, which pro-
ceeding was confessedly an extraordinary one—it had the
power on such an occasion, of sending for and seizing the
papers of individuals. But this waq a very great and a very
extraordinary power—a power not to be used but on the gravest
and the greatest occasions—he mizlit say a power which never
could be lost, except from the misuse of it. That feeling he
entertained respecting this individual case. —( Hear.) He had
no doubt that in very extraordinary cases it might be used. The
House in the South Sea case had ordered the papers of indivi-
duals to be seized ; it did, too, on that occasion pass a Bill of
rains and penalties against the estates of certain persons, and it
disposed of those estates by Act of Parliament. If the occasion
called for it it should be such a case as that which should call for

the exercise of that power. With respect to the case cited by the
lion. Member for Bridport, he would say this—that with that
candour and justice which marked every thing he did, that
Hon. Member stated that in that instance, after the question
had been discussed, the individual came before the Committee,

and stated he was ready to give up the note in question, which

he had before refused to do. The Committese• then having
declared the individual guilty of prevaricatiou,- did not think
he should be at liberty ; nor did they rely upon his promise;

but they sent the Sergeant-at-Arms to his lodgings, in order
that he might give up the note. If they were now to exercise
their power, they would come to such a decision upon a dif-
ferent ground than that which had then taken place. There
the witness was ready to produce the paper; he took his keys
with him, and ho produced himself the paper to the Sergeant-
at-Arms. Let the House now recollect that Colonel Fairman

had refused to produce the book ; if he should continue his
refusal, the Sergeant-at-Arms would have to take his papers,
riot voluntarily given up, but would hare to break open his
desk.—( Hear.) Such a course could not be justified by the
case of Captain Sandon. He was glad to find that the Hon.
Member for Middlesex had taken the just and the proper course
declaringin this person guilty of contempt and a breach of the
privileges of that House, and the resolution had been adopted,
without a division, that the person should be punished for that
offence. But as to breaking open a place to obtain papers
declared to be private, he should be sorry that such a motion
were made, and be should still more regret if it were carried.
For his part, he was decided upon voting against it.—(Hear
and cheers. )

After a few words from Mr. PRYME,
Mr. CHARLES BULLER contended that the case of
Sandon, which had been adverted to, was not analagous to the
present case, nor could it be quoted as a precedent.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL did not think the House
ought to enforce the production of the paper in the manner
proposed.
After a few words from Mr. HAWES,
Mr. HUME said the course he should adopt was to give
notice that to-morrow he should move that the House take