The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-02 00:00:00

to inquire whether a remedy might not be applied by the
removal of unnecessary restrictions ; if that were done the
shipping of this country would be able to compete with any
other. (Hear.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE would not detain the house long,
but as it had fallen to his lot to introduce some measures
which had deeply affected the shipping interest, he wished to
make some observations. It was exactly ten years since the
navigation laws hadbeen repealed, and he thought he might
congratulate the house on the complete refutation of the
dire forebodings then held out. During the last ten years
the amount of shipping had greatly increased, and so far
from the shipowners buying foreign vessels, he believed the
British builders had sold largely to foreign countries.
There never was a time at which British sailors were so fully
employed. If the navigation laws had not been repealed
this country would never have got possession of the great
carrying trade from Germany and Russia to other countries.
It was true that there had been a large increase in the num-
ber of foreign ships in British ports; but even that had pro-
duced a good effect. Within the last 10 years there had been
a period of extraordinary prosperity in the shipping trade,
and but for the competition of foreigners, British owners
would have built largely, and a temporary prosperity would
have been succeeded- by extreme depression. The admis-
sion of foreign shipping saved them from such variations
of fortune. He admitted that at this moment there was
a considerable amount of distress in the shipping inte-
rest, but it was not confined to the shipping of this
country. America had suffered quite as much. The return
showed that in America there were built in 1856 1,703 ships,
of 469,000 tons ; in 1857, 1,434 ships, of 378,000 tons ; but
in 1858, the number fell to 1,225, of 242,000 tons. He might
remind the house that when the navigation laws were re-
pealed, those who advocated the measure did not hold out
any certain hope that other nations would immediately fol-
low our example. The argument relied on was that they
would soon find it their interest to do so. The example had
since been followed to a great extent, although France,
Spain, and Holland, so far as regards Java, still held out.
Nothing was to be done in this matter by direct applica-
tion; such steps only excited the suspicion and confirmed
the prejudices of other nations. In all these discussions
great stress had been laid on the case of the trade between
the United States and California. No doubt the United
States had acted shabbily in that instance. The trade
could not reasonably be called a coasting trade ; but still
there was this consolation, that the entire was of little im-
portance. In the past year it only amounted to 180,000
tons, and it would soon be all diverted to the route over the
Isthmus. He quite admitted that, after the repeal of the
navigation laws, it became the duty of the Government to
consider what relief it was possible to afford ship?wners.
While he remained in office he succeeded in passing two
measures—one to reduce the light dues and the other to do
away with the merchant seamen's fund. His right hon.
friend (Mr. Cardwell) who succeeded him, had constantly
laboured with the same view, and the right hon. gentleman
opposite (Mr. Henley) had never ceased to direct his atten-
tion to the grievances which affected this great interest.
Some complaints had been made of the operation of the
Passengers Act. As regarded this question, it was not long
since his attention had been directed to the sufferings of
the coolies in their passage from the East to the West
Indies. The horrors of the middle passage were not worse
than what they endured. Of course he would wish to re-
lieve shipowners of any unnecessary restrictions, but com-
mon humanity required that such abuses, which disgraced
the name of England, should be put a stop to.
Sir S. 11ORTHCOTE said there might be burdens on the
shipping interest which it was desirable should be removed ;
but, on the other hand, the Government must guard them-
selves against the supposition that by consenting to an in-
quiry they pledged themselves to the concession of large
grants from the consolidated fund. The proposer of the mo-
tion thought it would be very proper for the Government to
take upon itself the payment of the light dues, which he
believed amounted to £300,000 a year. A similar suggestion
had been made respecting stamps on marine insurances,
amounting to £380,000 a year, and also with regard to the
timber duties, amounting, he believed, to about £600,000 a
year. Here, then, was something like £1,300,000 a year
which might be required from the consolidated fund if a
committee were granted in the terms of the motion. (Hear.)
Although the shipping interest had undoubtedly very great
claims upon the country, it must be remembered that there
was another side of the account, and that the Legislature
had already granted considerable advantages to the_shipping
interest. For instance, the Government paid something
like £50,000 a year far pensions connected with the Mer-
chant Seamen's Fund, which Parliament took upon itself
' at a cost of at least half a million when it had become bank-
rupt. Then, again, the Government paid something like
£20,000 a year for the expense of sending home distressed
seamen—an object which, however important in itself, was
connected with the operations of commerce ; and, further,
there was a payment of something like £30,000 a year on
account of differential dues which were paid under treaties
of reciprocity. All these were matters to be considered,
and he hoped that, however anxious hon. members might
be to press the claims of the shipping interest, they would
not forget that there was %per contra in the account. There
were also important exemptions in favour of shipowners. For
instance, there was the enormous advantage referred to the
other night by the Solicitor- General, of the facilitywith which
they could transfer property of immense value. Their title
was made perfect by a special act of Parliament, and the ex-
pense of transferring a ship as the Great Eastern was, he be-
lieved, something like a shilling. (Hear, hear.) As re-
garded the light dues, a good deal had been done and was
being done to lighten their pressure. A great reduction of
those dues had taken place under successive Governments.
He believed that his right hon. friend the member for Ox-
ford city reduced them by about £100,000; his successor,
Lord Stanley of Alderley, by £70,000; and his right hdn.
friend the member for Oxfordshire by about £35,000, this
last reduction taking effect from that day, so that there had
been a total reduction of something like £200,000 a year,
besides which a considerable number of new lighthouses
had been built, and a fund had been accumulated which
was sufficient to construct all the remaining ones that were
required. He thought it might fairly be said, then, that
the administration of the light dues by successive Govern-
ments had been exceedingly beneficial to the shipping inte-
rest, and although the Government could not consent to
the burden of the light dues being thrown on the consoli-
dated fund, because that fund arose from public taxation,
they were prepared to do everything in theirpower to lighten
those burdens which still pressed unduly on the shipping in-
terest. It had been remarked that in France the light dues
were paid out of the general taxation. He believed, however,
that in that country there were heavy tonnage dues for local
' purposes which were paid into the Exchequer, and it would
perhaps be only fair to the shipping interest to consider
whether some such system as that might not advanta-
geously be adopted here. The hon. member for the City
of London (Mr. Crawford) proposed that, besides inquiring
with regard to the burdens of the shipping interest, the
committee should inquire into the operation of the statute
relating to the compensation to the families of persons
killed by accident, and into the operation of the two Mer-
chant Shipping Acts and of the Passengers Act. Those
were subjects which might be very properly and usefully
discussed before a select committee. The granting of com-
pensation in cases of accident was a matter which there
would be some difficulty in considering simply with re-
ference to the case of merchant shipping. The act in
question was, it must be remembered, very closely connected
with the general law of the country, and there might be
considerable difficulty in dealing with it, as it affected the
shipping interest, without touching upon its operation in
other cases, and especially in the case of railway accidents.
He threw this out merely as showing that the subject was
one which must be handled with caution, although it might
not be desirable to exclude it from the proposed inquiry.
With regard to the two Merchant Shipping Acts, which
'had proved of great value and for the passing of which
great credit was due to his right hon. friend the member
for Oxford (Mr. Henley) it was impossible not to be struck
with the fact that the first of those acts, comprising 548
clauses, passed through a committee of that house in a single
night, the truth being that it could not have been passed at
all if the clauses had had to be considered ; and if there
were certain parts of the act which had been found to work
injuriously, it was but right that they should be considered
by a select committee with a view to an alteration. He
would not touch on the Passengers Act, chiefly because he
did not know anything about it—(laughter)—but he had
no doubt that it contained provisions which required to be
reconsidered. If the object of the proposed inquiry were
to get rid of ascertained grievances, the Government would
be happy to aid in its accomplishment. (Cheers.)
Mr. FENWICK thought that the substitution of the
word "all" for " some" in reference to the hurthens on
shipping would prolong the inquiry, so that it would never
be brought to a termination.
Mr. CLAY rejoiced in the appointment of this committee,
which would show the house what were the burdens under
which the shipping interest rested.
Mr. INGHAM hoped that the shipping interest would
not again be expected to go through the humiliating task of
proving the injuries inflicted upon them by passing tolls.
That subject had already been fully entered upon.
Mr. RIDLEY reminded the house that many anomalies
arose under the present state.of things. He would give the
house an instance—if a ship came home in ballast no light
dues were charged, but if she happened to carry a little
more provisions than she required, she was charged to the
full amount of the dues. These dues in fact fell upon the
consigner.
Mr. CARDWELL thought the limits of the reference
to this committee ought not to be too narrow, so that the
entire scope of grievances under which the shipping inte-
rest might be supposed to rest should be fully gone intO.' He
sincerely trusted the committee would industriously in-
quire into the whole subject, with a view to remove every
real gfievance, and secure all possible advantages to our
shipowners in the competition which they had to sustain,
and he hoped that, if the peace of Europe should be pre-
served, the growth of our commerce at home and in the
East would bring them a return of prosperity.
Mr. HENLEY expressed his hope that the result of the
appointment of the committee would meet the expectations
of those most interested in the matter. He was glad the
committee was going to be appointed to examine into the
alleged grievances of so large and respectable a body of men.
Mr. ADAMS said the inquiry should not be confined to
sea-going ships, as the coasting, trade also was suffering a
great deal.
Mr. WILSON admitted that the shipping trade was in
a state of considerable depression, but all other trades were
subject to such depressions, and he trusted and believed
that it would rapidly die away. (Hear.)
Mr. SPAIGHT had no hesitation in saying that the
working of the Passenger Act had been disastrous to the
shipping interest on the west coast of Ireland, and also to
the emigrants, who had been driven to obtain passages in
foreign vessels. All parties admitted that the shipping in-
terest was in a depressed condition, and he trusted the com-
mittee would devise some means of correcting such an un-
happy state of things.
Mr. LINDSAY said he had no objection to the alteration
which had been suggested in his motion by the substitution
of the word " all " for the word " certain. '
The motion, with the addition proposed by Mr. Craw-
ford, was then agreed to.
APPEAL IN CRIMINAL CASES.

Mr. M‘MAHON obtained leave to bring in a bill to
secure the right of appeal in criminal cases.
ENDOWED SCHOOLS.

Mr. DILLIVYN obtained leave to bring in a bill for the
better regulation of endowed schools.
PETITIONS OF RIGHT.

Mr. BOVILL obtained leave to bring in a bill to amen(
the law relating to petitions of right, to simplify the pro
ceedings, and to make provisions for the cost thereof.

,AFFIDAVITS BY COMMISSION.
Mr. BOVILL then obtained leave to bring in a bill to
enable the judges to appoint commissioners within ten miles
of London, and in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands,
to administer oaths in common law.
MANSLAUGHTER BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
LANDED ESTATES BILL.

The Title to Landed Estates Bill and the Registry of
Landed Estates Bill were committed pro forma.

INCLOSURE OF LANDS BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
The house adjourned at a quarter-past twelve•