The Sun.
London, England, 1835-09-05 00:00:00

counterbalance to that democratic influence otherwise es-
tablished by this Bill. He confessed that he confidently be-
lieved the House of Commons would have adopted that
amendment for preserving the interests of those who held for
life. Bu h was sorry to find that it was not only not the
B
of a majority of the other House of Parliament that
those interests should be preserved, but that it was not the opi-
noteof any man in that House that they should be so. Those
ests had been unanimously given up in the other House
of Parliament, and he therefore conceived that it was abso-
lutely nugatory for their Lordships to contend for the adoption
s of that principle.—( Hear.) He could not express the feel-
ings of sorrow and concern with which he made that statement
to their Lordships. He acted upon the principle of preserv-
ing the rights of property in this country ; and he would con-
tend that the rights of aldermen under the charters were as
valid as those their Lordships themselves enjoyed, and he
confessed he never could be a party to the abandonment of
those rights. The other House had decided unanimously
against that measure, at the same time they had sent up to
htheir Lordships a proposal to establish a body of aldermen to
e elected for a certain number of years by the town-council
instead of by a opul. He sa that he pre-
ferred these aldermen toel beection elected by amust secondary election
instead of being elected by the burgesses. Upon other points
Was not necessary that he should detain their Lordships,
hut in answer to the Noble and Learned Lord who spoke last
upon the subject of the appointment of the magistrates, he
Must observe that the Lords Lieutenants of counties had no
power by law to recommend justices to his Majesty. The
Power given to the Lord Lieutenant, or rather to the custos
r°l4/orum, to recommend a person to be made a justice of
the peace, was a power conceded by courtesy. The Lords
Lieutenants were not responsible for the persons made jus-
ticesp.littas the Lord Chancellor who was responsible to
therefore the Great Seal ought to be responsible
theube; vappointment of the justices in these boroughs, an not the town co He could not help taking up thed time of their Lordships for a moment longer, in order to take
notice of the attacks made upon his Noble and Learned
Friend for the course he had pursued. He would not weaken
what had been said by the Noble and Learned Lord
Vrougham) upon the conduct of ' his Noble and Learned
'lend by any panegyric on his talents, his abilities, and trniness, in carry,ing on the business of these ]—
(Cheers.)amendments. But that which he would say was this, that he
(the Duke of Wellington) was the person who solicited his
Noble and Learned Friend to undertake the management
of the amendments that were proposed to be made to the Bill.
]snowing
made that request of his Noble and Learned Friend from
his talents, his capacity for business, his great legal
acquirements, his eloquence, and the influence which he pos-
Asessed in their Lordships' House. But if there was anything
mong in that request, if there was anything erroneous in those
withendments, he was responsible for them in character equally
his Noble and Learned Friend, for he would repeat that
was the person who solicited his Noble and Learned Friend
to come forward on this occasion.---( Cheers.)
The Earl of RIPON never for once supposed that his
Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst) had been in-
fluenced in the course which he had taken by any of those ridi-
culous motives which had been so lavishly imputed to him,
and t.
- se thought there was nothing more absurd than the
comments that had been made upon their Lordships, the
calumnies that had been cast upon them, and the threats that
httd been held out against them, because their Lordships had
though proper to act upon their own judgments in this
tter. He acquiesced in the amendment with regard to the
election oiff the aldermen by the town-council, and be should
the amendment made by the Commons, with re-
pect to the church property belonging to the Corporations,
stbould not be agreed to. His opinion was, that the less pa-
fr`mage Corporations possessed, the better they wottld per-
!ll,?rant their functions. The most difficult part of this case was
t respecting the appointment of justices. To speak the
tlinth, he
could not say that he was satisfied altogether with
sii? amendment of the Commons; he thought their Lord-
ssir amendment was preferable. Looking at this measure
full-swia°it'i he felt that they had performed their duty mati-
Hes" Those who had supported the amendments by this
rats: bsad produced great improvements in the probable ope-
the i's!,),,' this Bill. He confessed he was not sanguine when
that quitted their Lordships' House as to the reception
411441'; b,e given it elsewhere. There had been some very
which r-"; 'n(deations of a disposition to receive it in a manner
Moniou'
84 adopted, would have struck a fatal blow to the har-
c°lllltr
Operations of the Legislature and Government of this
pity dig' In the expectations he had formed
he had been hap-
spirit saPPointed. The Bill had been received in a friendly
disc,' ;arid the tone adopted by the House of Commons in
that sing the amendments was of such a conciliatory nature
feeli he
felt
himself called upon to act with a corresponding
then ng; and felt himself bound to a.cquiese in the amend-
of Its which the Commons had made in a Bill involving one
the most difficult questions which Parliament was ever
belled
Upon to decide. He hoped the decision which should
this'aallY made would produce all the good anticipated from
not-- raeasure; but he confessed that on the one hand he did
anticipate such great benefits as had been said would flow
strni:,:„tiic:rg: still, on the other hand, he did not apprehend that
4-"lin would result from it dangerous to the peace and con-
ofthis country.
ss The amendments made in the several clauses by the Com-
-soo
. Ili from clause I. to 39, were agreed to.
40 Consideration of the Commons' amendments to clause
Ish was postponed at the instance of Lord ELLENBOR.:SGIi,
ii:rL..° thought that some difficulty would arise in the division of
eoughs into wards, unless some alterations were made in
clause as it now stood.
th The amendments made in the succeeding clauses down to
058th were agreed to.
reitin the question, that the amendments on the 59th clause,
,;,ing to town-clerks, be agreed to,
their 'le Earl of DEVON said that those town-clerks who held
fe offices for life should be continued ; but it might be per-
shetiY right that those who held office only during. pleasure
was be re-elected. It was true that a compensation clause
had Fontained in the Bill ; but in order to effect the object lie
t.`'.l In view, he should move as an amendment, that the elec-
ham of tossnsclerks should not take place or. the 9th of Novara-
'', addins. • h sr
r' h -h proviso to t-e succee ing clause, preserving the
igAttsteorf
athose wh h ld office for life.
conversaotione, in which several Noble Lords took
Part, strangers were ordered to withdraw for a division ; but
althea„
seek s I the House remained closed for some time, no division
forefitPri.lieer'etehaesicdlearuasteie(ze understand) having been postponed 1
on Clause 66 was postponed. Clauses 9,3 and 96 were agreed tn.. II
natio- clause 99, which gives the Crown the power of nomi-
tots g justices out of those individuals recommended by the
-"Loun •
ThLe°rd AelliliNGF.R objected particularly to this clause.
the They
no right to limit the choice of the King—to oblige
ttheeiitttnagtiotno adoptone of those individuals recommended by
a lit -;..ll:C°llnCil. He for one, would never consent to such
Learned of the power of the Crown.. The Noble and
tio,l s Lord, as we understood, pointed out the distinc-
i„s Uetwe,
-, that ,II Lords nomination proposed by the town-counficils
s'isece 4,"„°,f -Lieutenant. The members of the first
".r°4ll.varlY elected, and the latter were appointed by the
Lord Ili,
lei% of Isn/tIG HAM said, his argument did not rest on the
',°115, witeus;Lieutenant, but referred to Municipal Corpora-
"'ear h„- wuich Lords-Lieutenant had nothing to do.—
gative '4
-that:. ) He had no wish to interfere with the. prero-
Is (1-14), ,7. Crown. The King gave the charters originally.
Air,. 5,,.' "ear, from the Opposition)—and would not the
iglntke assent to this Act—( Hear, hear.) This was th? an-
ni3 Noi;i the constitution. If he, on his private auth_ority,raa-s
lion, ts e Friend proposed, were to create a private Co:p
Crew "at would be an interference with the prerogative of the
iness n most undeniabl • but these Corporations were to be
be .41)0rated by the Crowny' itself-4 Hear, hear)—and would
ti Just as much creatures of the Crown as the old Corpora-
that the Could it be an infringement of the power of the King,
cOrpcsateCr°wn having assented to the establishment of these
klstratess bodies, gave them the power to choose their Ma-
The Duke
corporations
. of WELLINGTON contended that the ancienet,
the
firstations were appointed by charters ; and the names t
they
cot appointed Were named in the charters ; and that
waseY were authorised to elect their successors, which was what
These called self-election, and as such considered objectionable.
ii,._, self-elected corporations it was now proposed to abolish;
t((3lq,,he should say, let them restore the power of appointment
rsoh. '_be Crown. He insisted on it, if they took away from the
ns self-elected the appointment of the magistrates, that
thgeeYt should be elected by the Crown, and not by the people or
ti "n-councils —( Hear, hear.) Snch a thing as the elec-
of" °f. the magistr.ates by the people did not exist in any part
The
vvorld.
thelbe Earl of RADNOR—The Noble Duke is not altoge-
kirnr.correct in his statement. The Crown has the power of
rsti Ing the justices. With respect to recorders, the corpo-
set lul had the power of naming the recorder, but he could not
~,without the consent of the Crown.
telhe Earl of WINCHIL SEA said if there was anything to
of voided more than another in legislation it was the sources
Lavdstce being tainted with party spirit. If justices were po-
Y elected, the defeated party, the minority, would always
/Nen the impression that justice was not done them in conse-
-4 e tise of the political feeling that was entertained. The
le_uoytence of the people in the administration of justice would
, Mpletely destroyed if the judges were nopalarly elected.
alee,?.rd DENM AN said the Noble Duke had supposed that
The'ir of magistrates by the people was without precedence.
01
them lderen of the Corporation of London were every one
t magistrts, and they were elected under a scot and
11 ssnlranchise. He never heard of any dissatisfaction in the
°Ylinistration of justice by the aldermen of the city of London.
ie were elected by very large constituencies, and he be-
eivev d there were no instances of feuds having occurred at the
ssite,tmns, and that no suspicion was entertained that the ad-
i,,,lls.tration of justice was less pure in consequence of these
'i'livldlials having been created magistrates by popular dee-
w2l: _ This Bill did not carry the principle to that extent. It
certain
only give the Power to the town-councils of nominating
seil'e In persons out of whom the Crown would choose. A pre-
fir,t
cityhe was to he found in the example furnished by the
IL in the empire.
tio,n 'Lord PLUNKETT said, under the existing law Corpora-
1/4onad a right to name their magistrates without the inter-
eiti.l 1! of the Crown. The Crown had no right to interfere
p.lseecr In their nomination or removal. They extended the
eislve .of nomination to a more popular body ; but they de-
ii.7l; tvl?.that that body should not possess the power of appoin-
Pro tee;!•hout the approval of the Crown. Here, then, was a
eat ens'io'°n against any objection that might be urged to the
4141,4. u of mores
popular principles.—(Hear, hear.) He
sett_ood that the Noble and Learned Lord opposite had
eel
qr.._ ded that justices of the peace were appOinted under the
Lord AB
Lord p BINGER—I never said anything,. so absurd.
LUNKETT said he did not enter the House till the