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London, England, 1859-03-18 00:00:00

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other defects in the arrangements of the institution, with
reference to the archaeological, natural history, and other
collections.
Lord ELCHO admitted that defects existed in the
arrangements, butdid not see the necessity for a select com
mittee to inquire into the subject, as there was already
sufficient evidence to enable the house to come to a correct
conclusion on the question.
Mr. SLANEY was anxious that lectures should be esta-
blished at the Museum, for the benefit of the labouring
classes. Nothing could be more interesting than Professor
Owen's lectures at Jermyn-street, but they were given at a
time inconvenient to the working classes. Amongst the
weavers of Spitalfields and elsewhere were many excellent
field naturalists, and they were famous for the wayin which
they taught bullfinches. (Hear, hear.)
Sir. J. V. SHELLEY thought it desirable that the com-
mittee should be appointed. After what had occurred about
the National Gallery, it was quite essential that an inquiry
should take place. A memorial against the separation of
the collections in the Museum had been signed by all the
leading men of science in the country, who said that the
removal of any of the collections from their present central
position would be viewed with great disfavour by the pub-
lic generally. (Hear' hear.)
Mr. M. MILNES said that the suggestion of Lord
Elcho would shelve the committee altogether. The com-
mittee ought rather to guide the trustees than be guided
by them. The alteration would involve a large expen-
diture of money ; and it was the province of a committee of
that house to show how it could be done most economically.
The subject was by no means exhausted ; the previous com-
mittees and commissions had all evaded the questions of
arrangement and subdivision. He thought that the com-
mittee would be of much service, and he hoped that its con-
clusions would not be regarded with any of that suspicion
or distrust which had been expressed on some former occa-
sions with regard to the interference of the most distin-
guished persons in the country. (Hear. One object well
worthy of the committees attention was the remuneration
of the officers of the Museum, most of whom were paid far
too low. (Hear. hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
still retained the opinion which he had expressed last year
—that the consideration of this question by the house ought
not to be much longer delayed. He thought the house and
the Government were in possession of all the information
necessary to guide their decision. He did not see how we
could sustain the character of the Museum as a first-class
iztutiorl,, which it now possessed, unless we adopted some
means for improving its organisation. He thought that the
-labours of committees and commissions, and the informa-
tion thence resulting, quite insufficient to guide the Govern-
ment in the task of reorganisation • and with those views,
which he retained, he had certainly expressed the opinion
that further inquiry was unnecessary, assuming that it
would be the duty of Government to recommend to Parlia-
ment some means by which the evils complained of might be
remedied. But unfortunately it had not been in the power
of Government to make such a proposition. The pressure
of business had prevented their dealing with the subject,
which they had certainly intended to do ; and he had now
to consider whether, being unable to realise the expectations
which he had held out to the house, he ought to oppose the
inquiry which the hon. gentleman proposed, and which was
generally approved. The object of that inquiry was not
really to obtain information. A committee was very useful
in reconciling conflicting opinions, and in bringing the
public mind to a solution of questions of this nature. A
committee of this kind could do no harm, and might do
good. If he found the committee interfering with other
bearings of the question, he should say, as he said before,
that the house had information enough to allow them to
proceed to a solution of this long-controverted question.
But the Government was not in a position at that moment
to hold out to the house anyfair expectation of dealing with
the question this session ; and he could not understand why
a committee of the house could in any way form an obstacle
to the Government in dealing with the question. (Hear,
hear.) If the Government was prepared to deal with the
question, he should certainly intimate to the committee
with very great respect that the Government did not wish
them to prolong their labours to too great an extent. (A
laugh.) But he saw no hope of the Government being able
to deal with the question this session. They hadattempted
to deal with the question of the National Gallery, and had
brought it to a satisfactory arrangement. Under the cir-
cumstances an inquiry by a committee of that house might
be of benefit ; if it did not bring any fresh information, any
new results to those who had given great attention to the
subject, it might still have a tendency to prepare the public
mind for that change which he considered inevitable ; and
with that view he consented to the appointment of the
committee. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he was not at all disposed
to blame the decision at which the right hon. gentleman
had arrived. Perhaps it was rather hasty in him to say
last year that the Government would have no more com-
mittees or commissions, but would decide the question
themselves. Perhaps the question had not yet been
thoroughly discussed.- Ho could not concur in the opinion
that the trustees of the Museum must be personss of
all others the least qualified to give an opinion ; on the
contrary, if they attended to their duties at all, they ought
to be able to give an opinion of some weight. (Hear, hear.)
With regard to the government of the Museum no one
could doubt that the Museum haying been formed from
the bequests of certain families, the representatives of those
families ought to be members of the governing body.
Amongst these persons were the Earl of Derby and the
Earl of Cawdor, and it would not be right to displace them
from the position they occupied. He thought the hon.
gentleman had brought the motion forward too much in the
spirit of agitation. The Government must ultimately de-
cide the question, but as far as the trustees were concerned
they had no objection to the motion.
Sir C. LEWIS recommended the hon. gentleman to
change the terms of his motion.
Mr. SOTHERON ESTCOURT did not understand his
right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ex-
press any abstract opinion as to whether it would be desir-
' able to keep the collections together or to separate them,
but that as the present building was clearly insufficient for
present, and still more for future, wants, they would be
driven by necessity to separate the collections. A com-
mittee was desirable, because it would bring the opinions on
,the subject into a focus in the shape of a report.
After a few words from Mr. AYRTON and Mr. COWPER,
Mr. GREGORY withdrew his motion, with the view to
proposing it to-morrow in different language.
REGIMEN tAL QUARTERMASTERS.
Sir A. ELTON rose to move that the house should to-
morrow resolve itself into a committee to consider the fol-
lowing subject : That an humble address be presented to
her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously pleased to
give directions that the benefits conferred by the royal
warrant on the 7th day of December, 1855, upon regimental
quartermasters retiring subsequent to the date of the de-
claration of war with Russia, may be extended to those
regimental quartermasters who completed the period of ser-
vice specified in the warrant, but had retired previous to
that date.
Colonel NORTH seconded the motion.
General PEEL said that if he were to consult his own
inclination only, he should gladly accede to the motion of
the hon. baronet and the wishes of those who bore testi-
mony to the services of this deservicg body of officers. The
hon. baronet made an application to him in October
last upon this subject; but he found upon inquiry that a
similar application had been made twice before to his prede-
cessor, and he was obliged to come to the conclusion that it
was impossible to accede to it. If, however, it was the wish
of the house to grant this motion, nothing would give him
greater pleasure than to carry it out ; but he must at the
same time repeat that he felt it to be his duty to point out
what the effect of it would be. (Hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON agreed fully with what the gal-
lant general had said ; because only see the inconvenience
that would arise from the government establishing a prece-
dent of this kind. (Hear, hear.) It might happen that
they would hereafter think it right to increase prospectively
the half-pay of certain officers in the army ; but if the con-
sequence of that step was to be seen in proposals of this
nature no government would ever sanction such an increase.
(Hear, hear.) In the same way Government might think
it right to increase prospectively the pensions given to sol-
diers who might be wounded or disabled in the service; but
if that increase was afterwards to be extended to all pen-
sioners without distinction it would be quite impossible for
them to go to such an expense. (Hear, hear.) He re-
gretted that these deserving men should have been deprived
of any benefit to which they might have been entitled, but
still he must say, after what had fallen from the right hon.
gentleman opposite, it would not be advisable to depart
from the general practice of the Government in these cases.
Sir A. ELTON, bowing to this decision, was willing to
withdraw his motion, but surely if the Government could
not consent to give the increased pay to these gallant men
they could, without any inconvenience, confer upon them
the rank of captains. (Hear.)
The motion was then withdrawn.

HOUSEHOLD TROOPS.
Sir J. TRELAWNY, pursuant to notice, moved " That
a select committee be appointed to inquire into the nature
and extent of certain privileges enjoyed by her Majesty's
Household Infantry, and mentioned in the report ofa Commis-
sion appointed on the 12th of April, 1858, as the Privileges
of the Guards ;' also, to inquire whether such privileges
have a tendency to produce dissatisfaction or diminish the
efficiency of the army."
The motion having been seconded, and put from the
chair,
General PEEL rose, and thanked the hon. baronet for
having postponed this motion on a
'former evening on
account of his (the gallant general s) absence. When
the army estimates were.brought forward the hon. baronet
expressed some alarm, if not surprise, that this motion
could be put a stop to on the ground of prerogative ; but
the hon. baronet must remember that if this committee were
granted it would not be a committee to inquire into the pri-
vileges of the Guards, but into the prerogatives of the
Crown, from whom all these appointments of honour proceed.
(Hear, hear.) He thought, therefore, the hon. baronet
would see the necessity of altering the terms of his notice.
Her Majesty, however, had on so many occasions not only
granted, but imsisted upon inquiries being made into the
system of promotion pursued in the army, that he need
scarcely take the technical objection of prerogative to the
motion, though, as he had just remarked, he must ask him
to make some alteration in its terms if the house should feel
disposed to accede to it. During the last eighteen years no less
than four commissions and oneimportant parliamentary com-
mittee had investigated this very subject. The constitution of
none of those tribunals was favourable to the Guards. The
committee was that on the army and ordnance expenditure,
which reported in 1851. 1 t was composed of the following
members :—Lord Seymour (the Secretary of War), Mr.
Hume, Colonel Anson, Sir William Molesworth, Lord Charles
Wellesley, Sir games Graham, Mr. Miles, Mr. Cobden, Mr.
Sidney Herbert, Mr. Greene, Mr. Williams, Mr. Ellice, Mr.
Vernon Smith, and Mr. Banker; and with all deference to the
hon. baronet, he thought the house would prefer the opinions
of such a committee to that of the hon. baronet, especially
as it had the assistance of two such severe economists as Mr.
Hume and Mr. Cobden, who could hardly be said to have
been prejudiced in favour of the Guards. (Hear, hear.)
Well, now, what did that committee report? Why, it directly
absolved the Guards from the very charges the hon. baronet
brought against them. The committee put no less than 500
questions upon just the same points as the hon. baronet had
referred to ; and the house would see, by a reference to the
report, that it was quite impossible that the matter could
be inquired into now either more fully or in more detail.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. baronet had said that the duty of
the Guards in London could be performed by regiments of
the line, but he could assure the hon. baronet that he could
not have fallen into a greater mistake. Experience had proved
such an opinion to be perfectly erroneous. (Hear, hear.) The
hon. baronet had stated what the privileges of the Guards