The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-14 00:00:00

which were indistinctly heard in the gallery, in reference,
we believe, to the proposed alteration of the financial year,
Lord ALTHORP said, the House was well aware that,
by the course of proceeding hitherto adopted as to the
estimates of the year, that these estimates were frequently
introduced after a portion of the expenditure had been
actually incurred; thus paying away public money pro-
vious to the grant of Parliament. This, he need not so;',
was an anomalous mode of proceeding......(Hear.) ;With
a view, therefore, of correcting this irregularity, and in
order to accord with the privileges of Parliament, his 11a.
jesty's Ministers had proposed that the estimates of the
year should be produced before they were acted upon.-7.
(Hear.) This could only be done by producing the esti-
mates early, and altering in the way proposed the period
of the financial year. In the present year there might be
some difficuly to encounter in carrying the plan into effect,
which would not occur in future years. The period fir
the commencement of the financial year was fixed for the
Ist of April. It might be said that in selecting so early
a period the financial plans might not be fully matured.
Possibly this might, in certain circumstances, be the case ;
but he thought it much better to fix that period than
adopt a later—for instance, the Ist of July, the next
quarter. He was persuaded that if, instead of April,
July were adopted, great practical inconvenience would
follow.
After a few remarks from Mr. C. PELHAM, the nature
of which we did not distinctly hear.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said if the Noble Lord could,
without inconvenience, make such an arrangement as he
had explained, no objection from him should be offered.___.
(Hear, hear.) There were, he thought, many points
connected with the question which could not conveniently
be discussed on the present occasion. With regard to the
period now fixed, the Ist of April, unless Parliament met
earlier than it had ordinarily done of late years, he was
inclined to think there would not be time to consider the
estimate;. He was afraid it would frequently happen that
subjects of greater interest and greater importance than the
estimates, important as that topic must naturally be, would
occur, and thus prevent consideration being given to the
estimates by the time now selected. He trusted that, as
the Noble Lord had laid down the rule, he would not set
the example of a deviation from it the very first year it
was introduced.—(Hear, and a laugh.) The House would
bear in mind, it was not the consideration of the quarter's
but the whole year's estimates which they were called
upon to consider—not only the navy but the army, and
miscellaneous estimates, and all this at so early a period of
the year as that named by the Noble Lord. But it was
not his intention, as lie :had intimated, to oppose the ar-
rangement.
r Sir JAMES GRA HAM said that there were difficulties,
as respected carrying the plan into complete effect during
the present year, which would not be experienced on fu-
ture occasion,,. He thought that much benefit would be
felt from adopting the present plan. The Hon. Member
for Waterford had on a former evening alluded to the re-
solution of the House respecting the production of the esti-
mates by a stated period. He (Sir James Graham) thought
that the resolution was one which ought to be strictly ob-
served. He had not been able to frame the navy estimates
so early—and he had fifteen months' estimates to frame.
There were no heads of expenditure, he was happy to say,
but which the country would be able to meet—(Hear)—
and lie was also happy to say that considerable diminution
in the expenditure had been estimated.—(Hear.) He
trusted, when he stated the grounds upon which he should
have to propose the estimates, that the Committee would
be satisfied with them.
Sir HENRY PARNELL had always been an advocate
for the estimates being laid as early as possible before Par-
liament; for it was a great absurdity that Parliament
should be called on to vote sums of money which had
been already expended. With respect to the period of
time now proposed as the beginning of the financial year
being the best or not, lie would not now atop to inquire;
but he was inclined to think it would answer the objet.
He thought, if Parliament met the second week in January,
sufficient time would be afforded to get through the esti-
mates by the time pointed out.
Mr. GOULBURN concurred with the Noble Lord
opposite, that it was highly essential that the House should
have a controul over the expenditure. But there were
other duties devolved upon the House of Commons than
that of controlling the expenditure, of a higher considera-
tion.—(Hear.) The redress of the grievances of the
people—(Hear)_preceded the grants of money—(Hear,
hear)—but if the House were to be occupied a long time
after it met in discussing money matters, how would the
grievances of the people be attended to ? As he had
already intimated, he would not oppose the plan, con-
sidering it a mere experiment ; although he thought it
would have been better that a Committee should have sat
on the subject.

Mr. R. GORDON rejoiced at the change of the sys-
tem.—(Hear, hear.) He was sure that it would prove
highly salutary. Ministers, by proposing the plan, were
only carrying into effect their own principles when they
sat o❑ the other side of the House. He also rejoiced to
hear from the late Chancellor of the Exchequer that
he was now alive to the grievances of the people--(Hear,
hear)—and that one of the first duties of the House of
Commons was to attend to them.—(Hear, bear.)
Mr. HUME thought it would have been Netter to have
selected the Ist of July instead of the Ist of April.
Mr. HERRIES saw no reason for departing from the•
practice which had prevailed for one hundred years, but as
it was an experiment he would not oppose it.
Lord ALTHORP said that Government had laid down
this rule, and that it was their intention to abide by it.—
(Hear.) He would allow it might happen that special
grounds might exist which would rend, r it necessary to
depart from that rule, but then this would be its exception.
He coasidered the alteration an advisable one to make.
Sir HENRY HARDINGE was of opinion that the
period selected, the first of April, by Ministers was rather
an ominous one.—(A laugh.)
Lord ALTHORP should not advance the period of pass-
ing the Mutiny Act.

Sir ROBERT PEEL said this was a point of consider-
ation, with the others which he had named, which would
have been better disposed of before a Committee.
Sir B. MARTIN considered that there would be great
difficulties experienced in the navy contracts for victualling,
which would be felt by the arrangement.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM believed the difficulties would
not prove insuperable. There was always a stock of pro-
visions on hand, should the contracts be retarded until
the plan was in full operation.
Mr. CROKER said the contracts for victualling the
navy were entered into in October and November; now
how could these be arranted by the new mode?
Sir J. GRAHAM considered the objection of the Right
Hon. Gentleman not very formidable. By the regulations
of the British navy there was always one year's consump-
tion in hand upon an average of that of the three years
preceding.—(Hear.)
SUPPLY.—NAVY ESTIMATES.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply on the Navy Estimates.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that in making his statement, it
would not be necessary for him to occupy much time, or
enter into any details. In the early part of last spring,
in consequence of the dissolution, it had been necessary to
vote the supplies early in the month of June. The esti-
mates, had been twice canvassed, and in all respects on the
present occasion, it would be a mere quarter estimate of
the entire sum for the year. He had formerly mentioned
that by the balance he found in the Exchequer at the end
of 1830, he had been able to carry on the naval service to
the 31st March, 1831. The object we had in view was
to effect the very purpose lately so much under discussion,
the alteration of the financial year, by advancing it from
the Ist of January to the Ist of April. He had found in
1830 a balance of about 1,300,0001. in the Exchequer,
and this year there was about 80,0001. more. The only
observation he had to offer on the subject of the estimate
was, that in consequence of this large sum being applicable
to he service of the country generally, he thoui,;ht,it right to
follow the precedent set by Lord Bexley (then Mr. Vansittart)
in 1816, after the short war which succeeded the escape of
Bonaparte front Elba—Lord Bexley found a surplus, as he
at first supposed, of about three millions, and adhering to
the very terms of the Appropriation Act, Lord Bexley
came down to the House, and in opening his financial
view of the year 1816, stated, that the surplus of supply
was to be considered as ways and means not applicable to
the particular service for which it was voted, but to the
general service of the country. The surplus Lord Bexley
had mentioned as about three millions, turned nut to be
nearly five millions. He (Sir J. Graham) had thought it
better, therefore, to adhere to the strict rule of precedent,
and considering the balance of 1,300,0001. as applicable
generally to the service of the country, he now came down
with a three months' estimate for the Naval Department.
He was not aware that it would be requisite for him to
enter into any detail of the particular votes which consisted
te
of the ordinary items : the balance arising from the vote
of last year more than covered the proposed expenditure
which last year amounted to 110,0 /. with .
exceeded the
entireun der
The sun) expended
allowance of 69,0001. for old stores.
100,0001• beyond that vote.
under this head was about 100,00
quarter, The
heads
—Tlfirst,
ottehaotffolarsttir(,),y(Fr:wa.(si onlyma-
terials,an
under the bead
under a private account,
repayment
1 materials, and falling
ot timber and
nßiyngt,heit balancee-dsheetat
laid
at
tiide reu upon
ath surplus tablerplu s oft h4i67,4rn9°3r/n.: