The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-13 00:00:00

The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed tomorrow.

PRISONS' REGULATION BILL.
On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the House
resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House upon this

Bill. W. R. Stewart in the Chair.
The several clauses of the Bill, down to the 15th, were
then agreed to without amendment. On this clause being put,
Mr. RIDLEY COLBORNE rose to move that the
Bridewell Hospital be exempted from the operation of the
Bill. The Hon. Member concluded by moving a clause to

this effect.
Lord J. RUSSELL had consulted with a Noble Friend
(the Duke of Richmond) upon the subject of this clause, and
the Noble Duke had informed him that he did not think that the

regulation of this Bridewell would be improved by its being in-
cluded in this Bill. He would not oppose the clause, although in
his opinion, it militated against the principle of the Bill, and
was one which he certainly would not himself have introduced.
Mr. H AWE S saw no reason why the Bridewell should not
be included in the Bill, and would divide the House against the

introduction of the clause.
Sir R. IN GL IS supported the clause. There was
strong evidence to show that this Hospital was well ma-
naged, and this he thought a sufficient case for excluding
this hospital from the operation of the Bill.
Lord HOWICK opposed the introduction of the clause,
which, he thought, a direct contradiction to the principle of
the Bill.
The House divided, when the numbers appeared to be—
For the clause
Against it
Majority against it
The other clauses were then agreed to; th• House resumed,
and the Report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow.

IRISH CHURCH BILL.
Lord MORPETH moved the third reading of the Irish,
Church Bill. •
Mr. J. YOUNG opposed the Bill as being detrimental to
the best interests of Ireland. The Hon. Member eulogised
the conduct of the Protestant clergy, and said that while this
Bill went to annihilate them, it did not satisfy the Catholic.
Mr. BO RTHWICK could not let the Bill be read a third
time without entering his protest against it. If Protestantism
were to be continued in Ireland at all, then was this a most
illogical and inconsistent measure. By the fifth article of the
Union, this country was bound to maintain and protect the
Established Church in Ireland. If this Bill were carried, the
Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin would afterwards say
to the people of Ireland, why are you content with this 6s. Bd.
in the pound—why do you not have the whole? They had
seen enough to show them that they who had been denounced
as the most incompetent Ministry that ever sat on the Treasury
Benches—having afterwards adopted the course prescribed
by those who induced them to promote the system of agitation
in Ireland—became all at once the most worthy and excellent
Administration. He would not enter into the question of the
supposed surplus which had been so ably dealt with by the
Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth. Indeed no an-
swer had been attempted to that statement by Hon. Gentle-
men on the other side of the House which had the shadow of
reason in it. He believed that the best possible engine to
wield was real reform, when it merited that title, and that
nothing was a worse engine when it was made to serve
only as a covering for the work of destruction. The people
of Ireland, according to the declaration of the Hon. and
Learned Member for Tipperary, were rebellious, because,
he stated, that they desired to strengthen the stability of
the throne, and to defend it. What eras this but telling
them that the Legislature was• no longer able to legislate
for Leland? He would predict that within one year from

that moment in which he was speaking, that giant power,
which on the opposite bench7s ',vas beginning to press upon
those who cow supported it, would come upon them to crush
the Constitution, not merely as it was to be found with re-
ference to England and Ireland, but as it was to be found in
the union of Church and State.
Mr. SHARMAN, CRAWFORD objected to this Bill,
but upor very different grounds from those taken by the lion.
Member who had last addh_ssed the 1-louse. He opposed it
because it was partial to the Chuxh, and did not give that
relief to the people of Iceland which they were entitled to.
Any measure which did not relieve all Presbyterians and Dis-
senters from payments to the Established Church in Iceland
must be ineffective and inoperative.
Mr. A. LE F T.iO Y ooposed the Bill.
Colonel VERNE R had that day presented thirty-four pe-
titions against the Bill, and he should most strenuously oppo,e
it, as in his opinion, if the Bill passed into a law, it would be
the means of subverting the Church, and substituting Popery
in its stead. The Protest:ints of Ireland had before that

time been in more danger than any now to be found in the
threatened six millions of the Honourable and Learned Mem-
ber for Dublin. It Ministers treated such threats wiai the
contempt with which the Protestants of Ireland were disposed
to regard them, they would prevent that deluge of blood
which must, in his opinion, inevitably follow from the passing
of this Bill. Should the Protestants of Ireland be deserted
by England, they would be quit.., willing to leave the issue
of the conflict in which they might be engaged in the hands
of God.
Mr. HARDY remarked that the second part of this Bi-

was utterly inconsistent with every principle of the Constitu.
tion, with the declarations of Ministers themselves, and with
the preamble of the Bill itself. The Hon. and Learned
Member for Dublin, in his honest prejudices, believed that
those who adhered to the doctrines of the Established Church
adhered to a heresy, and the [lon. and Learned Member must
be anxious to put an end to that Church, as thereby extin-
guishing heresy. 'The surplus consequently, which the Hon.
and Learned Member for Dublin could desire, would be
the revenues of the whole Church of Ireland. He could not
but regard the present state of affairs as most extraordinary
—they found the Protestant Government of a Protestant King
supported by a majority consisting of Roman Catholics alone.
Mr. SCARLETT considered that this Bill, coupled with
the Corporation Bill should be regarded as indications of the
Government adopting a new policy —that was of governing,
Ireland through the Catholics, instead of through the Pro-
testants. If any proof were wanted that the object of the
Catholic party in Ireland was to obtain ascendency, it was to
be found in a letter addressed by the Catholic Bishop of the
county of Waterford to the Grand Jury of that county. It
was proved by pail experience that the doctrine of the Ca-
tholic religion was one of encroachment, inconsistent with
the tolerance of any other religion.
Mr. ROBINSON thought the Bill before the House main-
tained the Protestant religion, although it might not main-
tain the Establishment iu Ireland. He was one of those who
always distinguished between the temporalities and the reli-
gion of the Church.
After a few words from Mr. RONAYNE and Mr. SCARLETT,
Mr. SH A W should take leave to read to the House two
letters which lie had received, and which bad reference to the
present subject. The following was an extract from the first
letter :—.‘ Enclosed is the memorial for an unfortunate cler-
gyman, requesting favourable attention for his two sons, who
some months ago left Ireland for the Canadas. I can state
from my own personal knowledge that this clergyman, entirely
dependent upon tithes, has during three years scarcely eaten
any animal food."—( Laughter from the Ministerial Benches. )
What must be the feeling of gentlemen who could laugh at
such a detail ?—( Hear, hear.) The letter went on :
" That when he did receive the loan, what between the re-
duction of heritage and the enormous interest he vves
obliged to pay for loans from private individuals, little re-
mained available for his own expenditure. He was obliged to
give up a policy of insurance on his life, and is at present in a
very declining state of health, in consequence of severe men-
tal suffering. One of his children has lately died from con-
sumption—(he trusted Hon. Gentlemen would not laugh at
this)—her case requiring those luxuries which his situation
would not allow him to procure for her. The characters
of his sons are unexceptionable, they had a university edu-
cation, and the office of clearing woods is very unsuited to
young men of their gentlemanlike appearance and habits."
He had only to add, that that very clergyman had signed
a petition against thn Cr e' wh'eh would secive
him an income for life. Cries of Name.") He should not
name ; but any Gentleman might see the letter who chose.
The next letter ran in the following terms:—" During the
last week I sent a petition through the diocese of Loughlin
amongst the different clergymen at their residences. My
messenger, in a remote district, inquired for the residence of
the Vicar of the parish, and was shown a small cabin on the
side of the road, and was told that the Vicar was in an adjoin-
ing field, if he wished to see him. My messenger requested
his informant to accompany him, in order to point out the place,
and having come in sight of the field, the man said, There
is the clergyman.' Where ?' said my messenger, for I only
see a man digging drills (meaning drilled potatoes) with his
coat off.' That is the very man,' was the reply; and from
this occupation the Vicar returned to his residence and signed
the petition." And this clergyman, too, had signed a petition
against that measure, which would have given relief to him-
self, though at the expense of the Church of which he was a
minister.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Shaw) confessed he felt
pride, an honest pride he trusted in referring to the conduct
of such men.—(Cheers, and cries of " Name, name.") He
should not name, but would mention that the date of the se-
cond letter was the 27th of May, in the present year, and of
the other was still more recent. He had only to add, that he
did not desire to rest a measure for the settlement of the tithe
question on party grounds. He should, with all his heart, ac-
cept of any reasonable and just al'rraneement for a final and
permanent settlement; but he would never consent, and he
was sure that the Irish clergy never would consent, to accept
of it at the expense of the Church to which they belonged.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that one of the letters was written
so far back as May last, and the Right Hon. Gentleman must
have been aware that the distress of this Clergyman need not
have been so great, for he might have availed himself of the
benefits of the Million Act.
Mr. SHAW—So he did.
Mr. O'CONNELL—And then the other letter gave an
account—a pitiable account—of a Vicar digging his own po-
tatoes—in May. Whoever heard of digging potatoes in May ?
--(Laughter and cheers.)
Mr. SHAW begged to read the very words of the letter
to the House. " Digging-drills" were the words used. Was
not the Hon. and Learned Member aware that that was the
season for planting potatoes ?—(hear, hear.) Was it not
monstrous that the Hon. and Learned Member should add
insult to injury ?—(Cheers)—that any man could be found
capable of deriding the misery that he himself had created ?
—( Loud cheers.) The letters which he had read were open
to the inspection of any Gentleman of the opposite side.
They were written by persone who would not deceive.—
(" Name, name.") No, he would not name, for he should
not deem himself warranted in bringing names under such
circumstances before the public. But the letters were opcn
to the inspection of any Gentleman on the opposite side,
who, though he might differ from him in politics, would yet
give him the credit of being incapable of making any state-