The Sun.
London, England, 1835-05-22 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDO:Nr, FRIDAY, MAY 2,2, 1835,

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 21.

The London and Croydon Railway Bill was read a second
time and ordered to be committed. Several witnesses were
sworn to give evidence before the Committee on the Bill.
Lord L YNDHURsT presented a petition from Mr. Spur-
rier, a solicitor of Birmingham, against the Bill for establish-
ing a Branch Railway from Birmingham to Liverpool.
ISLINGTON MARKET BILL.
Mr. HANDLEY, and other Members of the House of
Commons, brought up the Islington Market Bill, which was
read a first time.
Mr. Campbell, from the East India House, presented
an account of compensations to the Officers of the Company.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY brought up the report of
the Committee on Conyer's Divorce Bill.
MOORE'S DIVORCE BILL.

Counsel were heard, and witnesses examined on this Bi
which was read a second time, and ordered to be committed.

CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.

The Marquis of BUTE presented petitions from Cornwall,
praying for further means of endowing the Scotch Church.
Lord MELBOURNE also presented similar petitions from
parishes in Aberdeen.
PROTESTANT PETITIONS.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that seeing tho
Noble Viscount at the head of the Government in his place,
he wished to give notice that on Tuesday next he should present
a petition with which he had long been charged, signed
by 50,000 Protestants of the North of Ireland. He
gave the notice in order that any Noble Lord who
might wish to do so should have an opportunity of ex-
pressing his opinion upon this most important petition.
He (the Marquis of Londonderry) trusted by that time,
the Noble Viscount would have had such information from
Ireland as would enable him to state something definitive with
respect to the procession which accompanied the Lord Lieu-
tenant on his entry into Dublin--( Hear, hear)—and also to
state whether his Excellency had taken any steps to put
a stop to such occurrences in future.
Lord MELBOURNE had no objection to the Noble Lord
presenting the petition ; but considering it had been drawn
up upwards of six months ago, it might have been presented
earlier. He was ready to give any explanation that was re
(;wired, on the subject of the Lord Lieutenant's procession.
From all he had heard he did not think that anything had taken
place which was in the slightest degree illegal, or which
was liable to the observations that had been made.—( Hear.)
Nothing had taken place which, from the excitement, and the
%umber of persons brought together, might not naturally be ex-
pected. With respect to the banners, the account respecting them
had been extremely overstated; as far as he had heard, nothing
was done which infringed any Act of Parliament. There
was nothing in the slightest degree illegal, or exceeding the
fair license allowed to persons on such an occasion.

Lord WICKLOW-----The Noble Viscount basing stated
those facts upon information which he had received,
they were decidedly bound to believe him, until they
could adduce evidence to the contrary effect.—( Hear,
hear, hear.) If as the Noble Viscount states, there
had been no proceeding on that occasion of an il-
legal nature, then lie would say that greater false-
hood or more gross fabrications had never issued
from the press of any country, than had issued upon
this subject from the press of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) It
appeared a most extraordinary circumstance that newspa-
pers should dare to promulgate such facts, if there
were not just grounds for them. But the Noble Vis-
count having stated, upon evidence, that there were
no grounds for any such statements, they were bound
to believe him, until sufficient evidence was produced
by some Noble Lord, or any other individual who had
been an eye-witness of these proceedings, and who would be
enabled to state what he saw. He, therefore, would
say no more upon this subject, but he would take
that opportunity to trespass for a very few moments
upon their attention, for the purpose of doing justice to an
individual who conceived that he was aggrieved by what
had fallen from him on a former day.—( Hear, hear.)
Upon that occasion he alluded to a circumstance, and
then stated that he had no authority for his state-
ment but the public press. He said that the Solicitor
General for Ireland had attended a meeting, and was present
at a toast, or sanctioned it by his presence, or, at least,
did not notice it with disapprobation.—( Hear, hear, hear. )
He ( Lord Wicklow) stated at the time that the newspapers
were the only ground for his believing in this circum-
stance, and also that it had received no contradiction
from the Hon. Gentleman alluded to. On that day he had re-
ceived a letter from the Hon. Gentleman, in which be stated
that he had felt much hurt at his ( Lord W's) statement. The let-
ter further said there was no foundation for the statement—that
no such toast as that referred to had been given in his presence.
He ( Lord Wicklow) had the greatest satisfaction in making this
statement. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman, how-
ever, had fallen into two errors; -in the first place, he con-
ceived that he (Lord W.) had given publicity to this case,
and secondly, that he had brought it as a charge
against him. Now he (Lord Wicklow) had alluded
to it as a statement to which publicity had been
already given, by its having appeared in several Irish
papers, and in a paper of the greatest circulation in
this country, and also the best conducted. (Great
laughter, and cries of " Order.") It seemed to him that the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman considered that he
(Lord W.) had brought forward the circumstance as a charge.
Now he ( Lord W.) conceived that there was no charge in
stating that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
advocated any certain measure.—( Hear.) On the contrary,
if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was friendly to a
repeal of the Union—if he was one of those, and there
were many of them who considered that that measure
would be beneficial to Ireland—it would indeed be a
charge if he concealed these facts, and did not state them
manfully and openly, for it is no charge to advocate any mea-
sures if they are advocated manfully and openly. It there
was any charge it was made against the Government, who had
appointed a man the advocate of those measures which they con-
sidered most injurious to a high and responsible situation.

starid,- or was going back. He-said that such a state of
things on examination would be found not justified by
fact, and events had verified his (Lord Brougham's)
estimate. He was now able—he was now in a perfect condition by
the returns which were laid on the table, to make a calcu-
lation—not of the increase of education from the year 1818 to
the year 1828, but from the year 1828 to the year 1834, not as
regards the returns from 487 parishes, but from 33 counties,
commencing at Bedford and ending at Suffolk—both in-
cluded, and containing a population of 10,110,000 souls. The
consequence was, that more than two-thirds of the population
of England and Wales were indicated by this estimate. If that
calculation agreed with the average he had before given, he
would confidently assert that his allegations, as to the in-
crease of education, were perfectly correct. He would not
trouble their Lordships with the details on which he founded
this statement. He begged to refer their Lordships to the returns
on the table, and there they would see the particulars of the result
which he would now proceed to state. In the 33 counties
which he had mentioned, including also Lancashire and Middle-
sex, containing a population of 2,700,000, the whole population
amounted to upwards of 10,000,000, a number something
more, as he bad already stated, than two-thirds of the
population of England and Wales. Instead of 478,000 children
educated by voluntary contribution, the amount exceeded
900,000, for in the 33 counties alone which he had mentioned,
the whole number of children receiving education was 1,144,000.
This was not less than his calculations, but it was more—
and why was it so ? Why, for the most satisfactory of
all reasons—more than five or six years had elapsed,
and consequently an increase had taken place, so that now
it was greatly more than doubled.—( Hear, hear.) He would
not detain their Lordships with any details of those documents
further than to state, that the increase of unendowcd
schools had not been similar to those that were
endowed. One conclusion followed from this with
irresistible force, that wherever you have such a mass of
schools—wherever you have such means of education as those
which were already afforded—where you have such means of
instruction as was already furnished by the parents of the chil-
dren themselves, and by the contributions of enlightened indi-
viduals, a fund sufficient to educate 12,000,000 individuals—it
was obvious that great care ought to be taken before any
interference took place with respect to a system that was going
on so prosperously; and persons ought to be careful how they put
their hands on machinery that had such rapidity in
its movements. He knew well the difficulty of ob-
taining the continuance of subscriptions which public
zeal had originally set on foot ; he knew that was the
case, especially where it was over a narrow circle
and a particular neighbourhood ; and he knew also
that where the benevolence, zeal, and goodwill of individuals
had done so much, nothing could be more dangerous than
to allow any individual to say that he would give no more
subscriptions, because the County had taken it all up-
on itself; but a tax-gatherer came for the school
rate, and it would be soon found that the voluntary
assessment of persons by themselves would vanish altogether ;
and instead of having an increase of education, it would fall
off almost to nothing, and that magnificent establishment which
had been raised for instruction would be swept away altogether.
It must therefore be apparent that no general and sys-
tematic interference ought to take place—( Hear, hear)---
but, in saying this, he begged it to be understood
that he was very far from thinking that nothing remained
to be done. He thought that schools were too few in number,
that there were too few scholars taught, and that those who were
taught were not young enough ; and in the third and last place
the instruction communicated to them was scanty and im-
perfect. He was prepared to prove those propositions
by facts, but before doing so, he would call their Lordships' at-
tion to the unequal manner in which education was distributed.
He would take the two counties in which education was
at the lowest ebb—while the average of all Eng.
land was one twelfth—that was while in all England
there was education for one out of every twelve of the popu-
lation—the average in the two great counties of Middlesex
and Lancashire—those two counties in which from public
policy and public morals—for in tlih case they were the same—in
those two counties where, for the safety of public morals, educa-
tion should be of the very best description, and most open to all,
it was lamentable to find that it was at the very low-
est ebb —in those two counties in which there were
greater masses of people gathered together than in any
other part of the country, it was truly lamentable to find that
the average was so exceedingly low. Their Lordships might
suppose that the case was better in the large towns,
and that the deficiency was in the country parts of these coun-
ties ; but he was sorry to say that the case was not so, and that
it was in towns where the deficiency was greatest. In 1818
the average in Lancashire was only education for one
in 15, while in the county of Middlesex the case was
still worse—it was there one in 24. Now, the case
was altered for the better in Middlesex.—that county had
made more rapid strides in the march of education.—( Hear.)
Now the average in Middlesex was one in 13-, or near
14, while Lancashire was nearer the 14 than it. Now what
was the lamentable result—in great towns—though London,
Westminster, Southwark, and other towns in the country were
better provided—still there was a lamentable deficiency of the
means of moral instruction. He was then clearly of opinion,
in which he was borne out by the Report of the Education
Committee—that the safest and best course which
Government could take for the purpose of promoting
education was, that they should apply themselves to
the institution of schools in great towns where
the means of education were still scanty, and to apply
those means, so as not to interfere with the education now
afforded by means of voluntary contribution. It did not re-
commend that 2001. or 250/. should be granted in Oldham,
Marylebone, or other places, to provide a schoolmaster, for
that would have a tendency to check the subscriptions of pri-
vate individuals. The great difficulty in the establishment of
a school was in procuring the capital to erect the building.
That difficulty it was proposed'to meet, not by saying, " We
will give you the 1001. or 1,0001. required to build your school-
house; but if you will subscribe a certain sum, we will grant
you the rest." This was the principle acted upon by the
Church Building Commission, and tended to encourage rather
than to depress the exertions of individuals. This safe and
obvious course was also adopted by the Government in distri-
buting the grants of 20,0001. v'oted by the House of Com-
mons in the years 1833 and 1834, and he was happy to
say that the manner in which it had been bestowed had
produced all the results anticipated by the promoters of
the plan. It had occasioned the establishment of hundreds
of schools, and the subscription of thousands of pounds to
the purposes of education, which, but for the aid of the
Government thus afforded, would never have been de-
voted to the public service. He hoped the consequence
would be the removal of all difficulty in the way of obtain-
ing this year a larger grant, to be disposed of in the same
manner. The next proposition he should take the liberty of
stating was, that the public schools, few as they were, were
established for children of an age too advanced. He consi-
dered the establishment of what were now called infant schools
to be one of the most important improvements, he was going
to say, in the education, but he ought rather to say, in the
civil policy of this country, which the age had witnessed. No
man who had the least experience of these admirable institu-
tions would have the least hesitation in adopting this proposi-
tion. Whoever knew any thing of the talents, habits, and
characters of children, must be aware that long before seven
Years of age, the age at which children were usually sent to
school, they were perfectly capable of instruction. But that
man had only half learnt his lesson whose experience had not
taught him more than that—whose experience had not
taught him that a child was much more capable of learn-
ing before than after six years of age. His faculties were
more acute—his attention was more lively—his memory
more retentive—and his habits less decided than they were
after that age. A child under six years of age is neither
listless nor idle—neither indolent nor vicious, but is by
nature an active, inquiring, curious, and learning little animal.
From two years of age a child was in a state of constant
learning ; and so strong, so persevering, so irrepressible was
the curiosity which predominated in his mind from two till six
years of age, that he would venture to say he learnt more
during those four years, even when he did not go to school,
and more of' what was useful to him in after life, than he did
in all the after part of his progress, though he might live to be
a philosopher of eighty. We were so accustomed to the use of
the knowledge acquired at that period of our lives, that we
were apt to forget its vast amount—that it, in fact, compre-
hended our acquaintance with all the objects of external sense.
Take that knowledge away, and leave a man with only what
he might have learnt as senior wrangler at Oxford, and he
would be the most ignorant being on the face of the
earth. At present, however, as education was generally con-
ducted, this happy period for making impressions upon
the mind which would never be effaced, not only passed
without children learning what they ought to learn, but
in the acquirement of what was absolutely pernicious.
Now, but too frequently, listless, unlearning,, vicious, and
obstinate habits were formed before the child was seven
years of age. It would be superfluous to show the de-
grees of advantage in preventing this evil which bad at-
tended infant schools wherever they had been established,
both in this country and in France, which had followed our
example. It was seventeen years since the first infant school
was established in Westminster, and it required only a short
walk from that House for their Lordships to satisfy themselves
of its beneficial effects, not only upon the children, but upon
their parents in its neighbourhood. The same good results
might, he had no doubt, be produced in other large towns.
He might be called speculative, sanguine, and theoretical, but
he had moved amongst such epithets all his life, and always
found that although, like the air, they surrounded him, that
they offered little resistance when pressed against. He would
say, therefore, that he considered the establishment of infant
schools in large towns, 'where crimes were numerous, because
people there flocked, there bred, and there reared criminals, as
the true, the genuine, and, with the greatest deference to his
Noble Friend (Lord Denman), the chief Criminal Judge
in England, he would say as the only effectual means of pre-
venting ( Hear, hear, hear.) He knew that some trusted
to the gallows ; that some who were reclaimed from trust in
the gallows, trusted to transportation ; that those for whom the
transport ship had no charms placed their faith on the Peni-
tentiary, and that those whom the unwholesome situation of the
Penitentiary disgusted, were prone to look to the treadmill and
solitary confinement for two weeks. All had gotten into
their heads one sentence, which had been repeated till people
had forgotten to inquire into its truth, viz., that punishment
operated by deterring offenders from crime, and that, there-
fore, it was good to punish by the gibbet, by the transport-ship,
by the Penitentiary, and by the treadmill. Far be it from
him to say that the gallows should be abolished, that criminal
judges should sit no more, for although he thought the course
they pursued did not do much good, their abolition would do
much harm. But it was incredible how little this criminal
law did in the way of preventing crime. Ali persons who
had written upon the subject assumed that when a person was
making up his mind to commit an offence, he was calculating
the amount of punishment with which it would be visited, as

a merchant calculating the chances of profit against his risk,
or the farmer, if he ever calculated at all, calculated the ef-
fect of a fall in the price of corn upon the rent he should
pay. That was the first error these several classes of reason-
ers fell into ; but there was another just as fatal. It was as-
sumed that in making this calculation, the mind of a criminal
was in the same calm state as the minds of those who were
legislating upon his case; but such was not the fact.—
( Hear, hear.) A man who had lost his money at the gaming-
table, should have calculated before going there ; but
having lost all, his mind was not in a state to con-
sider that to-morrow he should be bankrupt, should be dis-
graced in the eyes of his gaming companions, if he did not
commit the forgery or the robbery that would put him in
funds. The numberless chances against his escaping the
gallows or the convict-ship never entered his calculations, or
if they did, his mind was not in a state properly to estimate
their value. Could any one doubt that the greatest crimes,
those which it most behoved society to prevent, were com-
mitted in a state of fury in which reason was prostrate ?
Since, then, punishment was thus inefficient in repressing, let
them consider whether there was not an effectual means of
preventing crime. The schools in which boys of seven to
ten years of age attended showed, as far as they went, conso-
latory results; but he wanted schools in which the character
might from the first be formed upon virtuous principles. He
trusted much to habit, which in all ages the lawgiver, as well
as the schoolmaster, had found was to be relied upon. Make
sobriety a habit and intemperance would be hateful ; make
prudence a habit and reckless profligacy would be as contrary
to the nature of a child as the most atrocious crimes could be
to their Lordships. It was not the upper or the middling
classes in large towns that supplied the gaols of the country.
It was not even the class immediately under the middle class,
that of the artisans, of the journeymen mechanics, among
whom were to be. found the most respectable, the most
ingenious, the most skilful, the most industrious, and the
most valuable members of the community. The source of the
evil was to be found in the lowest and most ignorant part of
the population of large towns. All the classes to which he
alluded were exceedingly desirous that their children should
be educated. He had the satisfaction to declare that he had
never seen a single individual belonging to those classes (and
they were classes with which various circumstances had af-
forded him the opportunity of great intercourse), even the
individual the least instructed himself, who did not feel and
express the strongest desire that his children, and more espe-
cially his youngest children, should have the benefits of edu-
cation. As an instance of what might be done with compa-
ratively small means in the establishment of infant schools, he
would mention the case of a legacy of between 7,0001. and 8,000/.
which about ten years ago had been left for that purpose. It
was not carried into effect, because a case having been laid
before Sir Anthony Hart, it was the opinion of that learned
person that the circumstances were such as might subject
the executors to a suit in Chancery; but an inquiry had been
made into the extent to which the fund, if it were so ap-
plied, would go, and it was ascertained that it would provide
infant schools sufficient for a parish the population of which
was no less than 150,000 souls. He had no doubt whatever
that if the system of infant schools were extended, the
result would be an improvement in the morals of the people to
a degree and with a rapidity which probably but few persons
anticipated. At present our prisons were filled with hundreds
of thousands of what were called juvenile offenders ; children
eight, nine, or ten years of age ; human beings naturally in-
nocent, and who only by accident became violators of the law.
But when these children had served their noviciates in prison's,
among experienced and confirmed criminals, they came forth
fit for any act of villany or outrage. If for such seminaries of
ruin infant schools could be substituted, he confidently pre-
dicted that more would be done for the eradication of crime
than by any other course which could be adopted. Other
schools did some good, certainly, but it was very little ; and
nothing could, generally speaking, be more absurd than to call
what was acquired there by the name of learning or instruction.
It was seldom better than a species of indolence or inactivity;
and nine out of ten of the children came out of these schools
knowing little more of that which was worth knowing than
when they entered them. Of this fact all who were ac-
quainted with those schools, with the boys educated there,
or with the masters by whom they were educated (ill-
educated themselves, and knowing nothing whatever of
the art of teaching), must be fully aware. The Noble
and Learned Lord proceeded to read a statement of the num-
ber of children at present educated in infant schools in different
counties of England; by which it appeared, as we understood,
that in Lancashire only one child in two hundred and ten re-
ceived instruction • in Cheshire, only one in two hundred and
twenty-one • in Derbyshire, only one in two hundred and six,
&c.; and that in Cumberland, Westmorland, and other nor-
thern counties, there were no infant schools at all. Before he
proceeded any further be would say a word on the frequently
repeated assertion, that as education increased crime increased.
That he denied. It did not follow that because the number of
punishments increased, the number of crimes increased.
Among the individuals convicted of offences, were, as he had
already stated, a number of juvenile offenders, who, being sent
to prison for a month or six weeks, came out accomplished
villains. If these children had been At an infant school,
they would have been chastised by the master, and in all
probability reclaimed. There was an almost invariable
connection between crime and ignorance. It appeared
upon examination that in the well-remembered years
of incendiarism, 1830 and 1831, of seven hundred pri-
soners (and be it recollected that they could not be
deemed the worst species of offenders), only one hundred and
fifty could write their names. Of the boys committed to New-
gate not a third could even read. In the Refuge for the
Destitute only one in thirty or five and thirty could read. An
active and intelligent magistrate of the county of Essex had
stated that of the poor fellows who were brought before him,
not one in-ten could write; the rest were only able to make a
cross. It was evident, therefore, that the connection between
ignorance and crime was most intimate. In the year 1817 it
appeared that in France only one child in thirty-five was edu-
cated. The discovery of this fact so stimulated private indivi-
duals, who were aided by the French Government, that in less
than two years the proportion was reduced to one in
twenty-eight. In 1819 the number of chi!dren receiving
education was one million and seventy thousand. In
Holland, according to the celebrated Cuvier, there were
schools for a hundred and ninety thousand children, be-
ing about one-tenth of the population of the country.
In Wirtemberg the children were educated out of the
church funds. In Denmark there were school-rates; as also
in Bavaria and Saxony. In Russia, so sensible had the Go-
vernment become of the necessity of educating the population
of towns, that schools had been founded for that purpose.
In Sweden not one out of a thousand of the population was
uneducated. In France he had himself witnessed the great
improvements which had taken place in education. There
was now hardly a corner of that country in which there were
not normal schools—schools for the instruction of teaeleses.
In Nassau, in Wirtemberg, in some parts of Ault: la, in Baden,
and other places of the Continent, ncrmai schools had been es-
tablished ; and in none of those instances were they content
with the miserable dole of instruction which was to be ob-
tained in the popular schools of this country. In addition to
reading, writing, and arithmetic, the scholars were taught
geography, geometry, some branches of natural history, and
drawing--one of the most improving and useful exercises for
the humbler classes, than which nothing gave them better means
of acquiring precise information, which was an agreeable occupa-
tion for them in their intervals of work, which tended to the pre-
servation of innocence and sobriety, and which (if any ques-
tion of mere profit and loss could be mentioned with
such considerations) was calculated materially to improve them
in their several occupations as workmen. He admitted that
when he had asked at some of those schools if the scholars
were not allowed to learn a little civil history, he was told that
that was discountenanced, if not altogether forbidden. They
were allowed to study the history of a moss, of a stone, of a
rush, of a weed ; but they were not allowed to study the his-
tory of their own country—they were not allowed to inquire
what had been done by theirf orefathers—they were not allowed
to learn all that was most valuable for human beings to know.
Civil history, indeed l Why that would tell them of privi-
leges invaded, of rights denied, of promises made under the
dread of foreign invasion, broken as soon as the danger was
ended; of the dethronement of one usurper, merely for the
purpose of changing him for another. Civil history! Why it
would tell them of what had occurred, at least in their neigh-
bourhood, within a few years ; it would tell them of an inno-
cent, a virtuous, an unoffending people, overrun, conquered,
and enslaved, by Governments that now allowed their subjects
to study mosses. It would tell them that the very Bibles and
Liturgy which their Kings commanded them to read, were
profaned by having been used in thanksgivings in temples for
the success of the •atrocities of those Kings. It would tell
them of monarchs, whose broken pledges were thousands
in number—of monarchs who counted the years of their
reign by violations of the rights of their people—of mo-
narchs who conceived that they hat lost a day, if—in that
day—they had not committed a crime.--( Hear, hear. )
It would tell them of a monarch of whom it had been said,
that he never went to bed without having first perpetrated
some crime or cruelty. Reverting to the immediate subject
before the House, the Noble and Learned Lord observed, that
his proposition would not have the effect of striking down any
of the excellent establishments which at present existed. As
a proof of their usefulness, he would mention one at a very
small distance from that House, in the Borough-road, which
he had been induced to visit ; and certainly a more extraordi-
nary spectacle of the progress in obtaining information which
might be made by children, he had never seen or heard of at
any place, in any country, or at any time. It was perfectly
wonderful how the human faculties could at so early an age be
cultivated to so marvellous a degree. A dozen or two of
them were asked such questions as what was the interest of
5351. 7s. 4d. ? They were not allowed any time, and their an.
swers were as correct as they were immediate. They were
never puzzled in any case of calculation but one, and that was
a case in which he should himself have experienced difficulty.
He repeated, that he had never witnessed a more extraordinary
exhibition. Among other things, he saw a boy take a slate,
and, without any copy, but solely from memory, trace upon it
the outline of Palestine, marking all the variations of the
coast, the bays, &c., inserting all the principal towns, and
adding their ancient as well as their modern names. Now all
this was real, substantial knowledge. It would be infinitely
advantageous if in London five normal schools- were esta-
blished, for the purpose of instructing teachers, not only in
knowledge, but also in that of which they Were mainly ig-
norant, the best modes of communicating that knowledge
to children, the best modes of operating upon their minds,
and forming their habits. These normal schools would
speedily supply five or six hundred able and accomplished
masters, from whose labours throughout the country the
most beneficial consequences would soon result. It might
be said that there were already great funds existing for the
purposes of education, and it naieht be asked why, there-
fore, the public purse should be drawn upon ? The answer
was, that some of those funds were diverted from their le-
gitimate object, and that others were abused and inefficient.

There were cases in which the- trustees of bequests's foe
education were hampered by the nature of the trust. It fses
quently occurred that the powers of trustees of' that description
were limited, and that they were thereby prevented from cob.
forming to modern wants, and could not be released from those
limits even by the Court of Chancery. There were indivichials
who thought that they would confer a great benefit- on
their neighbourhood by leaving estates to found grammar
schools. He had one in his recollection—a case in which
an estate of the value of three or four thousand pounds
had been left to establish a grammar school in a large ma-
nufacturing town. Now it appeared that in that town Et
grammar school was not necessary, but that a COMItOI
school in which reading, writing, ciphering, and mechanical
drawing might be taught, woul be very beneficial ; but it
was found to be impracticable to change the application of
the fund. The only remedy would be to extend the powers.ol
the trustees by Act of Parliament. Many persons had, in
former times, thought that they did great good_ by the. este-
blishinent of foundling hospitals. They imagined that such
institutions would prevent child-murder, and diminish the illi-
cit commerce of the sexes. In the last century it was believed
that nothing would . temrso much to decrease immorality as
the planting of a foundling hospital in every parish. That
delusion had, however, long ceased to exist ; the funds of these
hospitals had been otherwise applied ; and the name alone of
one of them was retained. Adverting to the foundling hos-
pitals in France, the Noble and Learned Lord observed that
on being shown one of those establishments, with its revolv-
ing boxes, its bells, its comfortable cradles, &c., he had re-
marked that it. was one of the most perfect nuisances be had
ever seen. England had of late years much advanced in civi-
lization in that respect, and had put an end to institutions
which were productive of the most serious evils. He had re-
ferred to foundling hospitals for the purpose of proving that the
original gift of lands was made for the establishment of these
institutions. Though the moneys were originally invested
with a view to the maintenance of such establishments only,
and although hundreds of thousands of pounds were expended
for their support, still Parliament did not hesitate to interpose
its authority by directing their funds towards the attainment
of an object different from that which they were at first in-
tended to promote. Parliament had the self-same right
to interfere in every other case where a pernicious application
of the funds of any charity had taken place. The proceed-
ings of Parliament, from the Act of Elizabeth with regard to
charitable uses to the Acts passed during- the reigns of
George 111. and George IV., had recognized the right, duty,
expediency, and perfect justice—withont showing the least
disregard to the rights of property or the rights and interests
of the poor—of legislating with respect to these charitable
funds as if they formed a portion of the public property. Now
he found that in many of the schools which had been endowed
(and he alluded more particularly to those of small endow-
ments) many mischiefs had resulted, not in consequence of
the children who were admitted to them receiving wholesome,
innocent, useful, and practical instruction, but through the
expenditure which was made for feeding and clothing these
children. He would just refer to a few instances in order to
show what large sums of money were squandered worse than
usely in the distribution of the thuds of these endowed schools.
The funds for endowed schools in Middlesex were, in 1819,
31,0001. a year, and the number of children educated at them
did not exceed 2,260. The funds for a similar purpose in
London, amounted to 84,0001. a year, and the number of
children was not more than 1,630. In St. Paul's (a day
school) the regular charge for each pupil was from 151. to 201.,
besides other items, which made it amount to a larger sum.
There were 195 children within the walls of the Foundling
Hospital, arid is many more out of doors, the expenses for
each child being 451. a year. If an appeal were made to those
who had the management of some of these institutions to
which he had referred—to those, he meant, who had no sinister
object to promote in the continuance of such establishments—
who had no purposes of rival tradesmanship to answer, who
were removed by their station and rank above the suspicion of
any jobbing views—he was convinced if such men were asked
calmly, and in a kind and friendly spirit of conciliation, they
would prefer to see three thousand children educated (and
that in the best manner) to giving but an imperfect education
to thousand children, and supplying them with subsistence
and clothing. In what he had said respecting the mode in
which the schools to which he had referred were conducted,
he wished to be understood as speaking of establishments of
small endowments. Whether in all cases these institutions
should be interfered with in such a manner as would alter
the application of their funds, was a question involving
considerable difficulty, and into which he would not then
enter. At all events, that these establishments should be
scrupulously and rigorously watched over, that the trustees
should be repeatedly called on for an account of the disburse-
ment of their funds, and that they should be made aware,
that although there might be no Commissioners of the
Charity in being, still that there was to be invested, either in
a body of Commissioners, or in the principal Secretary of
State, a power of making strict conditions with the school-
masters of these schools, and of dismissing those masters
upon a breach of such conditions—that, he repeated, such
a controlling power was necessary, and that the want of
it had occasioned the ruin of the hest endowed schools, or,
at all events, perverted their funds from the purposes for
which they had been granted, was a proposition so clear, that
he did not feel called on to consume their Lordships' time in
dwelling upon any proofs in order to sustain it. He knew
from his experience in the Court of Chancery, where cases
bearing upon the question to which he intended to call their
Lordships' attention had come under his consideration--and
he had been also made aware of the fact 'by his previous
knowledge upon this subject, that there were many day_
schools which were intended to afford useful instruction to the
poor, but from which, though the poor .child was not actually
excluded, though the door was not flung in his face as' he
attempted to enter, and although the master of the school.
never openly and undisguisedly flew in the face of the duty
which he' owed to its thunders, still he was permitted co-
vertly to work its ruin (as far as the intentions of those
who endowed it were concerned) by the reception of a
number of respectable boarders, who, being unwilling to
mix with those who ought alone to partake of the benefits
of the establishment, increased exactly in proportion to the
diminution in the number of the poorer class of scholars. It
was not wonderful, under such circumstances, seeing That the
master had a direct interest in lessening the nun -seer of his
poorer scholars, if he treated these children with perhaps bare
civility, but never with kindness—if he behaved towards them
in a harsh, unfeeling, and rigorous manner, the inevitable
consequence of which was, that the blame was frequently
thrown on the boy, which should be visited on- the master...._
(Hear, hear.) He knew of the effect produeeri by this sys-
tern in some instances which bad (erne ueder his observation,
for in the course of three neenins, whilst he sat in the Court
of Chancery, four or five eases had been submitted. to him, in
e-11:e:i the foundation had dwindled down from 180 pupils to
one tr two. The rents of the premises was paid as punctually
as-ever—the accommodation for scholars was as good as when
the endowment had taken place—all the expenses of the school
were defrayed—but all the benefit derived from it accrued not
to the poor but to the rich, and the interest of the master
seemed to be alone consulted.—( Hear, hear.) Such abuses,
and even much worse than those upon which he had touched,
must continue, whilst the master was allowed to hold his
situation without condition, and without the clear and un-
doubted power being invested in some responsible body, of
enforcing a compliance with those conditions upon which he
undertook to discharge the duties of teacher; for although
the power of compelling him to perform his duty might now
exist, still no man was anxious or willing to interfere, because
it was not the business of any one to do so. He had now con-
cluded the observations which he intended to address to their
Lordships, and which bad much exceeded the length of time
which he meant to occupy in their delivery. It was his wish
to conclude by reading to the House a series of resolutions,
embodying the topics on which he had touched ; and as they
embraced a variety of views, he was anxious that they should
be printed and considered by their Lordships, before he made
any distinct motion on this momentous subject. He would
now read these resolutions :

"I. That although the number-of schools;v,here7some of the elo-
mentary branches of education are tang7nt, has greatly increased
within the last twenty years, yet th,..re still exists a deficiency of
such schools, especially in the 14.-etropolis and other great towns,
and that the means of element:ay instruction are peculiarly deficient
in Middlesex and Laricashe.

2. That the kin,
of education given at the greater number of
the schools now t*,stablished for the poorer classes of the people, is
of a kind by no means sufficient for their instruction, being for the
most Paft- confined to reading, writing, and a little arithmetic ;
whereas, at no greater expense, and in the same time, the children
,night easily be instructed in the elements of the more useful
branches of knowledge, and thereby trained to sober, industrious,
prudent, and virtuous habits.

" 3. That the number of infant schools is still exceedingly defi-
cient, and especially in those great towns where they are most
wanted for improving the morals of the people, and preventing the
commission of crimes.

" 4. That whilst it is expedient to do nothing which may relax
the efforts of private beneficence in forming and supporting schools,
or which may discourage the poorer classes of the people from
contributing to the costs of educating their children, ►t is incum-
bent upon Parliament to aid in providing the effectual means of in-
struction where these cannot otherwise be obtained for the people.
" 5. That it is incumbent upon Parliament to encourage in like
manner the establishment of infant schools, especially in the larger
towns.
" 6. That. for the purpose of improving the kind of education
given at schools for the people at large, it is expedient to establish
in different parts of the country, seminaries where good school-
masters may be trained, and taught the duties of their profession.
" 7. That there are at present existing in different parts of the
United Kingdom, funds, as well real as personal, to a large amount,
given or bequeathed to charitable uses connected w;th education;
but which, partly for want of objects in the particular places to
which such gifts are confined, partly from want of proper powers in
the trustees—partly from other defects in the foundations, have
become in many instances unavailing to the purposes for which
they were originally intended, and are now productive of very ina-
dequate benefit to the country ; while from want of publicity,
abuses frequently creep into the management of them, only to be
remedied by tedious and expensive litigation.

" 8. That in order to superintend thc just and due application
of the funds from time to time voted by Parliament for the promo-
tion of education, to establish the proper seminaries for training
teachers, to encourage the trustees of charities connected with
education, to watch over the abuses of trusts committed by such
trustees, and to control the exercise of such new powers as Parlia-
ment may grant, that it is expedient that a Board of Commissioners
be appointed, with powers and duties to be regulated by Act of
Parliament.
" 9. That it is further expedient to give such a Board a power
of filling up the numbers of trustees, when these have fallen be:tow
the quorum, in any will or deed of foundation, subject to the ap-
proval of the special visiter, where there is one, and to aul:horize,
subject to like approval, the sale, mortgage, or exchange ni any pro-
perty given to charitable uses connected with education, for the
promotion of the objects of the foundation, as far as these may be.
&Tined beneficial to the community.
" 10. That it is further expedient to give such Board a power,
subject as aforesaid, of directing the Trustees of any Grarr.inmr
School where the funds are deliciQin, to apply such part tlicrcof