The Sun.
London, England, 1832-01-04 00:00:00

STATE OF THE POOR.

Mr. DRUMMOND rose, pursuant to a notice of
motion, to submit a resolution to the Bench on this
subjecr. lie was sure that in so doing he had not
to address a hostile audience, for they must all see
the evils of the present system. Whatever other
discrepancies there might be in political economy,
he was sure they must all be agreed in this—that
the worst possible condition for the labourer was to
fix by law the minimum price of labour, because
very shortly that minimum would become the
maximum, and the whole labouring population
would consequently be depressed into the mass of
pauperism. This, however, was just the very thing
that the present administration of the Poor Laws
brought to pass; so that, in fact, he might be con-
tent to let the question rest here, and say to the
Court :—Come to what decision you may, you can-
not but improve the present system, which is the
worst that it is possible to put into operation. He
would not attempt to describe all the evils that
arose from the present system; but there were a
few which he could not pass over in silence. In
the first place the labourer was deprived of his fair
wages ; in the second, the householders were de-
frauded by being made to pay for the culture of
land not their own ; 'n the third, it was the means
of fostering a spirit of animosity and antipathy be-
tween the labourer and his employers, so that by
this alone was a system of insubordination induced
which made the former so discontented as to be
ready at any moment to assume a fearful and
threatening aspect ; and it might be anticipated
that if this much longer exercised its influence,
that feeling would extend and be aggravated
which now showed itself in incendiarism, and
which arose from their not being able to trust to
the law for redress, but taking that law in their
own hands, and reaping a private vengeance.
That such a feeling as this was riot the intention
of the law was manifest. It was first brought
about during the late war, and gentlemen
might see this point well put in the report of the
House of Commons on criminal commitments.
When the price of commodities rose at that period,
the price of wages did not rise with them ; la-
bourers with large families were obliged to apply
to the parish for relief. The overseers afforded
this relief: but they at the name time permitted the
labourer to remain in the employ of the person for
whom he was working, instead of taking him alto-
gether into the parish employ. The effect of this
naturally was to depress the price of labour ; for it
was &eel-, that if such lebourers lied been withdrawn
from free labour, tire price of that free labour moat
have risen. In this respect the Scotch law was
worthy of being followed, which does not allow a
man with a short lease to become an overseer, by
which such short-sighted policy as that which he
had described would net have been acted on. But,
perhaps, it might be said in reply to these Observa-
tions, if the practice is bad, why not appeal eget nst
it, instead of bringing it before the Magistrates In
Seseion ? But his object was not to obtain a remedy
for one parish alone, but to establish sorhel fling that
should prove a permanent benefit to the whole pau-
per population of the country : besides which, such
matters as these were never so effective as when
they emanated from the Magistracy at large, and were
carried into effect, through their instrumentality,
by the osserneerst and he was particularly anxious
not to omit this opportunity, because, though he
did not mean to say that the condition of the la-
bourer was better
.than last years there were now
no mobs to intimidate. After mentioning instances
in which the system that he was proposing had been
advantageously acted upon, the lion. Magistrate
proceeded to read
That
motion) which wee to the foi-
-1 lowing effect t—" That whereas an illegal practice
prevailed in some parishes of Surrey, of paying
those labourers out of the poor-rates who were not
employed exclusively on account of those parishes
to which they belonged, whereby the wages of la-
bour had been put down, improvident habits had
been promoted, and householders had been made to
pay fig labour on land—that Court recommended to
the Magistrates in Petty Session to exercise their
best vigilance over the accounts of overseers, and
not to pass any where such illegal proceedings
should be detected." The advantages that he ex+
petted mould accrue from the adoption of this reso-
lution were, that a complete separation would take
place between those that worked for the parish,
and those that worked for individuals. Single men
would find that it would be a greater advantage to
be single than married—while, on the other hand, it
was but lately that he had heard an instance of over-
seers refusing work to those men who were not mar-
ried. It would then become the interest of farmers to
take men as boarders into their house—a practice
which he lamented very much to say was now fast be-
coming discontinued and obsolete; and though it was
true that most of the married men with large families

would he forced to go on the parish, yet this would not
be the case with all, for the farmers would find that it
was their interest to employ such as best understood
and performed their work. Another and a great ad-
vantage would be, that it would again open the sluices
of private charity, while the present system had al-
together shut them ; for benevolent individuals
found if they did anything for a poor man, it was
only the signal for the overseer to deduct so much
from his allowance. There was one objection which
might be made to the proposition he had offered,
but he begged to caution gentlemen against it in
limine. That objection was, that the proposed alte-
ration would cause a greater expense to the land-
owner ; and the reason why he gave this caution
was, because in proportion as they chewed hoe;
great that increase would be, in the same proportion
would they shew to what extent had the labourer
been previously defrauded ; for it could not be de-
nied that one element for their consideration was,
that the labourer had been unduly depressed, and
that the land-owner had gained an unfair advantage.
Every writer on the subject agreed that this was a
matter of such crying injustice, that if it was not
speedily put a stop to, it must end in a general con-
vulsion. He was not going to make any pathetic
appeal to the &mei), but this he would say, that the
cry of the labourer who tilled the fields had risen to
the ears of the Lord God of Sabboath, and unless
the present iniquitous system was altered, they had
nothing to anticipate save a frightful, hut, at the
same time, a righteous retribution.
Mr. DENISON, M.P., seconded the motion. In
Dorking, where he resided, this principle had been
acted upon ; and as a proof of its efficacy he might
mention, that though there were sixty persons re-
ceiving- relief from the parish in this way when the
alteration was fist attempted, there now was not
one. He was old enough to remember when this
demoralization first began. It was about the year
1795. It began when the taxes of the war against
France became so oppressive that the farmer could
not employ the labourer at that price which would
enable him to maintain his family. The only way
to bring matters back to their former state was, by
retracing all their steps ; and the sooner they could
retrace them with caution, temper, and moderation,
the sooner would they behold the happy result of
that course. As the system existed now, there was
no reward for talent, industry, or energy, for every
one was placed on the same footing, whether they
were industrious or idle ; and the cause of this was,
that the farmer was so borne down that he could not
do jastice to the labourer. He however trusted,
without making any allusion to politics, that the Go-
vernment would be able to find out a way to shift
the burden from the industrious and put it upon the
wealthy.
The Rev. Mr. JEROM said, that in the parish in
which he lived (Chobham, as we were given to un-
derstand), resistance had been made to paying those
labourers employed by farmers out of the parish
rate; and he was happy to say with the most bene-
ficial results.

Mr. PENRHYN was glad that the question had
been brought forward, for the system was most ruin-
ous to the peace and welfare of the country. Fortu-
nately, no new law on the subject was required, and
therefore it was a fit question to come before the Ma-
gistrates in session, as the regulation of the matter
rested in their hands.

Mr. HOLME SUMNER agreed with Mr. Drum-
mond as to what was the law, and as to what ought
to be the law; but he could nut agree in the de-
scription which that gentleman had given of the
state of the poor. He not only would not admit
that there had of late years been any aggravation of
their condition, but he would aver that for the la,t
fifty years he had never seen so many of them in
that state of comfort in which they now were. Hi•
had never seen more pigs in the stye than he had
within the last two years; and he looked upon it
as a strong proof that they were not in such a
wretched condition, when they could not only afford
to buy a pig, but also to keep it as a provision against
a rainy day.
After a few observations from some other Magis-
trates, Mr. Drummond's motion was unanimously
adopted.

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.

MANSION-HO USE.

lirm. Earle, the principal Director of the Pickled
Fish Company, was brought before the LORD
MAYOR for a final examination, on the charge of Mr.
Price and Mr. Woodhill ; the first accusing the pri-
soner of having appropriated a bill for .501. which
was subsequently duly honoured, and the second ac-
cusing him of having obtained a gold chain under
the remarkable circumstances detailed in our last ac-
count of the evidence against him. _ _

Earle could prove that there was no foundation
for either accusation. It was true he had received
the 50!. bill, but he knew nothing of its appropria-
tion. A man named Brown, who had a connection
with the Pickled Fish Company, and who was the
cause of all the confusion which had taken place,
had thought proper to dispose of it without his con-
sent, or even knowledge, and it was too hard to
make him (Earle) suffer for the crimes of others.
With respect to the gold chain, however, the state-
ment was altogether false.

A witness stated that Brown, the prisoner's
partner, had given him the 501. bill to negotiate, and
to pay himself 201. for making an oven for the con-
cern out of it. He negotiated the bill, which was
paid when due.
Mr. Hobler asked whether the prisoner wished
to hear the evidence of Mr. Price read over to him ?
Earle—Not at all; I am able to rebut it altogether.
It is all a gross misrepresentation. I derived not
the least profit from the

The LORD MAYOR—I told you all along I was
ready to hear your witnesses, if they were able to
give any e;rplanation. Are they here now ?—Here
no. Your Lordship ought to have summoned them
to attend. The prisoner then alluded to a few ap-
parent inaccuracies in the depositions of the wit-
nesses, but they did not affect the charge in the
slightest degree.
The Loma MAYoa—I advise you not to open
your defence until you are upon trial,
Earle—Upon trial, my Lord
The LORD MAYOR—Yes ; I am bound to send
these two cases to the Old Bailey.
Earle—Oh S very well, my Lord. I am much
obliged to you, and shall reserve myself for that op-
portunity.
Additional evidence was then heard on the charge
of Mr. Woodhill, the jeweller, of St. Paul's Church-
yard., from whom Earle had obtained the gold chain.
Mr. Woodhill having repeated the evidence he
had previously given--
Earle said—On what day do you say I got the
chain ?—,-Mr. Woodhill -.On the 6th of October.
Earle—On the 6th ! why you said, on the pre-
vious examination, that it was on the .sth. How
can you reconcile those dates ?—(A laugh.)
Mr. Woodhill—l said that it was either the sth
or 6th.

. Earle—Oh, you did, did you
Mr. Eden, a surgeon, knew Earle. The first time
the prisoner was apprehended he sent for witness,
and mentioned that he had some pawnbrokers' du-
plicates which ha wished to put into his hands as a
security for money which he had borrowed at dif-
ferent times from witness. Amongst the duplicates
was one for a gold chain, which had been pawned
for four guineas. Witness afterwards was t Id that
there was a row about the chain. He redeemed it.
The gold chain produced by Mr. Woodhill is the same.
Earle—Pray were the duplicates delivered to you
by my hand ?—Certainly ; you know they were.
Oh,and where pray ?—ln Gray's-Inn-lane you put
them into my hands.
Do you mean to say they were put by my hands
or by my order into your hands ?—(Laughter.)—
By yourself.
Oh, you said I got money from you. Did I ?
Did you ? To be sure you did, in the presence of
your son ; and you handed over half of it to him.
Earle—Oh, very well.
The LORD MAYOR-P-PrisOner, I would have you

keep your defence for another place, to which this
case, as well as the other, must go.
Earle—Thank you, my Lord, I intend to do so.
The prisoner was then fully committed upon both
charges.

HATTON-GARDEN.
Yesterday a decent working-looking man, named
David Davis was brought to this office, in the cuse
tody of Police-serjeant James, charged with creating
a disturbance at the Scotch Church, Regent's-
square, during divine service on Sunday night last.
Mr. D. M'Kenzie, of No. 43, Myddleton-square,
and Mr. 0. Newman, of No. 3, George-place, Hol-
loway, Elders of the Church, preferred the charge;
and it appeared that, on the Sunday evening, at the
request of Mr. Irving, six policemen were stationed
in and about the Church, to prevent limy disturbance
from taking place among the crowds of persons
that flocked there to hear the " manifestations
of the Spirit." During the service the defen-
dant, David D iv:B, presented himself at the Church
door, when the policeman, seeing he was intoxicated,
persuam!eml him to go home. Ile accordingly left,
but returned again in half an hour. The pew-opener
was talking to the policeman at the door, when
David came back and again tried to gain admittance,
which the pew-opener acquieaced in, on condition
that he should " put a curb on the spirit that was
within him, and with bit and bridle bind fast his
jaws." With this admonition in trundled poor
David. Mr. Irving was preaching, or interpreting,
as the Rev. Gentleman expresses it, when David
reeled up the aisle to the pulpit, where he and his
spirit manifested themselves ill the following most
exquisite specimen of the known or vulgar tongue.
Mr. Minister (hiccup)—Pray vat's the reason the
sins of the (hiccup) fourfathers should be visited
on the (hiccup) third and fourth generation ?
Time congregation of the said church being unused
to the workings of the spirit in their own lungs, did
with one voice order and insist that the said de-
fendant, David Davis, should be forthwith forcibly
expelled from their tabernacle; and, in accordance
therewith, he was taken by the nape of the neck
and slack of the breech, by the policeman afore-
said, and carried or dragged to the police-station,
Si' nate, standing, or being in and about a certain
place or street, commonly called or known by the
name of the rookery, in the parish of St. Giles's,
there to abide till the spirit had evaporated, con-
densed, died, or otherwise been disposed.
Mr. LAING (to the defendant)—What are you ?
Defendant—A shoemaker, your Vorship.
What have you got to say in answer to the
charge ?—Vy, your Vorship, I have nothing to say,
enly that I had been velcoming the new year in, and
drowning the last of the old'un in a bumper of gin
with my friends, an so I parted with my awl among
'ern, and on my way home, yen passing Mr. Irving 's
chapel, the spirits worked on me to go in, and I see
Mr. Irving leaning upon the red velvet cushion, so I
just ax'd him the question. But your Vorship, I'm
sorry from my soul as I committed myself.
The Magistrate told him he was a foolish fellow
and ordered him to find bail, in default of which poor
David was locked up to console himself on his spiri-
tual adventure.