The Sun.
London, England, 1832-06-19 00:00:00

went on to asaert that the present Ministers had done the
same with regard to the Reform Bill, be (Sir R. Peel) was
astonished that the Hon. Member could pronounce such
libel upon his friends and supporters out of doors, who all
gloried in what they called a bloodless revolution, effected
only by the force of reason and justice.—(Hear, hear.)
To subject the House on all occasions to the threat of phy-
sical force, was nothing more nor less than the vilest and
most degrading tyranny, and it would be better at once to
constitute a mob-committee to sit (he would not say to de-
liberate) from day to day, and to issue its mandates to he
executed by the Ministers of the day. For one, be never
would consent to sit in this Howe, and listen patiently to
doctrines destructive not only of good government, but
of every species of subordination. He advised those who
talked of physical force, to look to other countries, in
order that they might see its triumphs, and the wonders it
had accomplished for personal freedom and the liberty of
the Press. The physical force the lion. Member for Mid-
dlesex wished to gee called into action, was similar to that
which this day (the 18th June) the anniversary of the
glories of Waterloo, had insulted the Duke of Wellington,
the achiever of those glories, and the deliverer of Eu-
rope.--(Much cheering.)
Mr. HUME obtained are-hearing with difficulty; he only
wished to explain, that the Right Hon. Baronet had en-
tirely mistaken him : be had contended only that the
people bad never obtained any concession of their rights
but from the dread of physical force, not from its applica-
tion. As to audacity, he had audacity enough—(Much
laughter and cheering, with cries of " Spoke, spoke")—to
be able to repeat and justify in the House any expression
he had made use of out of it. He had objected to private
quarrels and disputes between Members being made the
subject of public discussion in Parliament.
Sir J. NEWPORT hoped that every facility would in
future be given to the registration of freeholders in Ire-
land. In his view, the great merit of the Bill before the
House was, that it destroyed nomination boroughs, and
had it contained no other provision, he should have gladly
embraced it; but it seemed to him that the communica-
tion of the right of voting on account of a 101. ch ittle inte-
rest, was of itself a considerable gain. He earnestly hoped
that the Bill would not be procrastinated by useless dis-
cussions until its effects in Ireland were materially injured.
If it did not go the whole length that he wished, it went
a considerable way on the right road. He had now passed
half a century in the public service—thirty years of it in
tl.e United Parliament—and it rejoiced him to think that
he bad never done an act, or given a vote, that did not
show that he had the interests of Ireland at heart.—
(Cheers.) His retirement from public life would now be
speedy, and, as his last declaration, he might, perhaps, he
allowed to say, that now, as on every other occasion, he
had the peace and tranquillity of his country only in view.
—(Much cheering.)
Mr. CRAMPTON read to tile. House part of the speech
delivered by Mr. O'Connell, on the 24th of March, 1831.
in which he had stated his entire approbation of the 101.
franchise ; adding, that it ought not to be lower. He
wished to know from the Hon. Member for Kerry, whe-
ther on that occasion he had been misreported ?
Mr. O'CONNELL—Quite entirely.

Mr. CRAMPTON—AII he could reply, then, was,
that the Hon. Member had been misreported, not only in
every newspaper of the day, but in the recollection of all
the Members who were present and heard the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman.—(Cheers.) He hoped the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman would explain why be had so com-
pletely changed his opinions—why he then applauded the
101. franchise, and now proposed that it should be reduced
to 51.? Let the Hon. and Learned Gentleman answer him-
self, and reconcile " the glorious inconsistency" (as he, per-
haps, might call it) if he could. The Hon. Member (Mr.
Crampton) then proceeded to argue that what had been ad-
vanced by Mr. O'Connell, and supported by Mr. Hume, was
founded merely upon a fallacy—a confusion between the
actual number of freeholders and the small number regis-
tered in the different counties in Ireland. He (Mr.
Crampton) contended that it had of late years been the
policy of landlords in Ireland not to allow freeholders on
their estates to register; and the effect had been, that at
the present moment not more than perhaps one-tenth of
the freeholders were registered. Notwithstanding all that
had been said of the greater favour shown to Scotland, the
fact was, that, after the passing of the two Reform Bills,
Scotland would have, in proportion to her wealth and
population, a much less extensive constituency than Ireland.

- Mr. O'CONNELL said, that no one could be more
perfectly a false witness against him, than the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had been.—(Loud cries of " Order,"
and " Hear.") He was ready to declare upon oath, that
he had never used the words attributed to him. Had he
done so, he would have retracted his own retrastation.
He would be able to show from the letters which he had
written to Ireland, and which had been published, that
the charge was brought against him, in an entire aban-
donment of truth.—(Order, order.)
The SPEAKER requested the lion. Member to call
to mind the words which had just now escaped him.
Mr. O'CONNELL—Is not falsity a Parliamentary
term..--( Laugh ter. )
The SPEAKER said, that nothing was Parliamentary
which gave personal offence to any Member of that
House.—( Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL would only say, then, that the
Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General for Ireland had made
a mistake.
The SPEAKER trusted that the Hon. and Leared Gen-
tleman would see the necessity of making a more satisfac-
tory explanation of the language which he had used.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the reporters, to whose
accounts of his speech the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
(Mr. Crampton) had referred, had through mistake re-
presented him to speak of 101. freeholders, when, in fact,
he was speaking of the 101. chattel franchise.—(Hear,
hear, and Oh, oh.)
Mr. CRAMPTON (amidst loud cries of " Hear, hear")
said that the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry had
charged him with saying that which was false.
Mr. O'CONNELL—I did not say Idse ; I said that it
was not true.—(A laugh, and cries of " Oh, oh.")
Mr. CRAMPTON would now say no more than that
he bad quoted the words of the Hon. and Learned Member
from the published records of that House ; and that the
Hon. and Learned Member stood iu a position which
would prevent him (Mr. Crampton)from applying to him
for a satisfactory explanation of his language, in the man-
ner in which applications were generally made by gentle-
men to whom language so offensive had been addressed.—
(Hear, hear.) He wished not to be mistaken. He did
not mean to say, that if the Hon. and Learned Member
had not placed himself in the position to which he had
alluded, he would have noticed the words applied to him,
any further than to protest against the violation of the
order of Parliament, and the common usages of society,
by the use of ungentlemanly language.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. 0 CONNELL was understood to say that he had
no intention to give personal offence by anything which
he had said.

An Hox. MEMBER said, that the statements which had
been made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry
respecting tke number of the freeholders in one county of
Ireland was inaccurate. A much greater number than
that stated by the Hon. Member had polled at the last
election.

Mr. O'CONNELL had taken the numbers which he
stated from returns which lay upon the tahle of the House.

Mr. LEADER contended that the 10/. franchise was
too high, and that a .51. qualification would be sufficiently
high to satisfy even those most opposed to an extensive
constituency.—(Hear, hear.) The Irish Reform Bill was
in every respect insufficient, and far below what the people
of Ireland had a right to expect at the hands of the Minis-
try, which had received from that people, and from their
representatives in Parliament, an honest, laborious, and
efficient support in carrying that measure of Reform which
had given the highest satisfaction to the people of England.
It was ungrateful and impolitic to disappoint the hopes and
to resist the just claims of the Irish nation.—(Hear.)
Mr. HUNT said thst lie had been horded and ridiculed
in that House for declaring the Reform Bills for England,
Scotland, and Ireland, would fall short of giving satisfac-
tion to the people. But now the very persons who had
taxed him with inconsistency came forward denouncing
the Irish Bill as a delusion.—(Hear.) Irithe Hon. auil
Learned Member for Kerry chose to divide the House upon
the question of the 40s. franchise, he (Mr.,Hunt) would
again divide with him ; and therefore it would be very in.
consistent if he, an advocate for Universal Suffrage, should
not support the proposed amendment.
The House then divided—
For the Amendment 44
Against it 177
Majority for Ministers -133
On the readmission of strangers, the House was in Com-
mittee, and

Mr. O'CONNELL was addressing the Chairman,
and was speaking of his intention to take the sense of the
House upon the 10/. chattel franchises. He contended
that the number of 10/. voters, holding for a term of 60
years, would not amount to 300 persons—he doubted if
they would even amount to as many as 150 ; he was sure
they would never be 1,000.
The question having been put,
Mr. D. BROWNE suggested to substitute a twelve
years' holding for one of sixty years. He certainly was
far from wishing to recur to the old system of the forty
shilling freeholds, but this be .thought would not prove
even an approach to it—a system which in his opinion
had operated most injuriously, and put an end to every
thing like independence. For.example, the county with