The Sun.
London, England, 1832-03-31 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, eßem 30.

Mr. HODGES brought up the report of the Committee
of certain amendments to the Gravesend Pier Bill.
Mr. HEYWOOD presented a petition from a person
named William Davenport, praying to be heard by himself
or Counsel against the Belton and Bury Railway Bill.—
Referred to the Committee.

Mr. E. BALL presented a petition from the Marquis of
Salisbury, praying to he heard by Counsel against a evrtain
Read Bill now before the house.—R2ferred to the Com-
mittee.

On the motion of Mr. HUME, the St. Andrews's, Hol-
born, Improvement Bill, and the Portman-market Bill
were read a second time, and ordered to he committed.
On the motion of Mr. Alderman WOOD, the amend-
ments to the London Bridge Approaches Bill were read a
second time
Mr. DUNDAS stated that he had intended to move the
second reading of the Bill for renewing the patent for
Morton's slip, hut he understood the Right Hon. Gentle-
In in opposite (Mr. S. Rice) intended to make a satis-
factory proposition.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of that
Bill having been read,

Mr. S. RICE said be had a preposition to make which
appeared to him beat calculated to suit the interests of ail
parties. He did not wish to refuse the second reading ; but
if it appeared to be the first Bill for extending a patent
that had ever passed, it would certainly be unwise to
extend the period of any monopoly. It was admitted
on all hands that the invention was a most ingenious one,
and it was also known that similar bills to the present
had passed. It teas, however, his opinion, that the
House should not, without sufficient facts before them,
pass a Bill to give a certain benefit to an individual at
the expense of any portion of the community. H
therefore wished to move that it be referred to a Select
Committee, to report whether or no it was expedien►
to extend the period of the patent. That mode wool.)
sieve the expense of parties opposing the Bill.
The second reading of the Bill was then postponed
until this day week. On the motion that a Select Com-
mittee he appointed,
Mr. MILKS said he had taken pains to ascertain what
had been the practice of the House upon such occasions.
and he found that since the commencement of the present
century, there had been only two Bills for renewing pa
tents. He expressed his approbation of the proposed ar-
rangement.

The motion was then agreed to, and the Committee was
appointed.
On the motion of Mr. Alderman TliomrsoN, leave was
given to bring in a Bill to amend and extend the powers
granted by former Acts to the St. Catherine's Dock Com-
pany.

On the motion of Lord SANDON, the Bill for en ibling
the Manchester and Liverpool Railway Company to makr
a branch railway, was read a third time and passed.
Mr. CLAYTON pre'ented a petition from the inbahi-
tants of Hartle pool, in favour of the Hartlepool Railway.

IRISH TITHES
Mr. RUTHVEN presented a petition from Belfast pray-
ing the House fully and completely to abolish tithes in
Ireland as a means of restoring the people of that country
to happiness, and the clergy to that high and honourable
station to which they were entitled.—(Hear, hear.) The
petitioners, in praying for the repeal of all laws respecting
tithes, stated that there were other means of providing for
the clergy by the proper appropriation of the Church
lands, and they called upon the House as Christian legit;
I.tots who were earnest in their desire to promote
peier, to relieve them from this most oppress-.

Mr. HUME withdrew his objection. and the Bill for
transferring the business of the Colonial Audit Board to
the Commissioners of Accounts, was read a third time
and
Mr. LEADER wished to ask a question of the Solicitor
General for Ireland whether an affidavit, which had been
made IT the Solicitor of the Crown, impugning strongly
the jury of the county of Kilkenny, had induced
the Judge presiding at the trial of a person named
Kennedy, to postpone his trial, and the trial of
sevelatl• te''ric." Tn. a: ,111 w iiaa • him,
till next assizes. The affidavit he referred to had been
made by the Solicitor of the Crown, who was a complete
stranger to the country, under the apprehension that thete
wit, no prospect of getting a fair trial or an impartial in-
vestigation, in consequence of the alleged threats which had
been held over witnes-es and juries. He wished to
know whether the Solicitor. General far Ireland had any
objections to the production of this affidavit. Sure he was
that puiting tiff the trial of these men implied a heavy
charge on the most respectable jury of that county,
and was wholly unjust to the individuals themselves.
Mr. CRAMPTON beg ed leave to state, that one of
the cases alluded to was an offrnce under the White
Boy Act, of the most atrocious character that had for a
number of years occurred in the county of Kilkenny', and in
another cse, the person was accused of murdering the
policeman, who fell in the unfortunate conflict at Carrick -
sougla, on the subject of tithes. The affidavit made by
the Crown Solicitor, was not contradicted in any single
particular by any of the prisoners, or by their counsel ;
and the learned judge who presided made his rule directing
that the trial should be postponed till next Assizes on
the ground that a fair trial could not take place at pre-
sent in consequence, as the affidavit went to prove, of the
existing excitement in the county on the subject of tithes.
No imputa, ion had been cast by any one on the charac.
ter or conduct of the Jury. But on the ground of
intimidation of witnesses and Juries, on the sub-
ject of tithes alone, the Judge had been induced to
postpone the trial. Although it was unusual to call for
a copy of an affidavit made in a Crown case, yet he had no
objection to its production.
Mr. HUNIE put a question respecting a less of 60.0001.
or 71i,0001. in some department, respecting which be
wished for an explanation, but the nature of which was
not heard in the gallery. _ _ .

Mr. HUNT understood that four or five men had
been apprehended by the police, and subsequently
committed by a magistrate in this town for play-
ing at what was commonly called single stick."
They had been found going through the broad-sword
exercise with sticks with baskets at the end, and had
been apprehended on a supposition that they had been
training to the use of arms for the purpose of subverting
the Constitution. An occurrence so extraordinary as this
surely demanded an explanation from the Under Secretary
of State.
Mr. LAMB said that the men alluded to had been
brought before a Magiet. ate—they had been committed for
re-examination, and be• did not conceive this to be the
time to give any explanation upon a case at present sub
judice.

Sir J. GRAHAM, in consequence of the absence of
Lord Althorn, simply moved the Order of the Diy, that
the whole House should resolve itself into a Committee
pro forma on the Nay Civil Department Bill,
Sir B. AIARTIN hoped vat the Right Hon. Baronet
would brine the subj ct on on an early day next week.
Sir J. GRAHAM assured the Gallant Officer that no
person could he more anxious than himself to bring for-
ward the subject, and that he would lose no time in
doing so.

SUPERANNUATIONS BILL.
Mr. HUME said he had postponed a motion respectii.g
the Superannuation Bill, in the hope that Lis Majesty's
Government would have brought forward their det,rmina-
Tin, as they had pledged th.
roselves to do be'ore thi-
rime, namely,
to carry into effect the recommend itions of
he Committee. He wished to know if the Givernmen
meant to tiring the subject forward without delay or not ;
if not, he should be under the necessity of bringing for-
ward his own motion.
Sir JAMES GRALIANI said that on Monday next his
Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) would be in his place, and
would himself be able to give an answer to the Hon. Gen•
tleinan's question.
MALT DRAWBACK BILL.
On the motion that the whole House should resolve
itself into a Committee on the Malt Drawback Bill,
Mr. HORATIO ROSS rose, and said he was very
unwilling to i ccupy time, but he felt it imperatively
necessary for him to make a few observations on this
esshould feel it to be his bounden duty to object to the mea-
-tire, and to throw every possible impediment in the way
of u. it
duty of malt spirits, nine persons out of ten in the High-
lands passing. the
Before the drawback took place on In every stage of the present Bill he
3,_
lands of Scotland were engaged . in smuggling. It was
carried on also to a great extent in the Lowlands of Scot-
land, land, and the gaols of that country were fined by offenders
ping the the laws on that subject. • Immediately after the
drawback took place, the smuggling was completely
knocked on the head, and the Revenue was
incensed to a most enormous extent. Why then had
this system, which had worked so well, been proposed to

Mr. SINCLAIR was of opinion that the proposed Bill
ought to have been called, an Act to revive arid encourage
smuggling. Sure he was that if it passed, it would tie
necessary to enliree all the gaols in Scotland.
Mr. G. DAWSON intended to support Government
on this question, and hoped they would persevere, not-
withst niling the oieposition of the Scotch Members. He
thought the lion. Metnter (Mr. Ross; had made out as
-mall a case fir opposing Government on this (location
,s the Starch distillers had made out in the Committee.
He allowed that the retort of the Committee was a Loud re-
port—( Hear)—but he begged to call the attention of the
House to the evidence given before that Committee. The
memhers of it thought, in making their report, that it
would "e better not to prejudice the House, but allow
them to firm their own opinions from the evidence.
If they :ooked through the report they would see that the
',resent system was pregnant with fraud and danger to the
revenue. lie all wed that no case of distinct fraud had
been proved—(Hear)—but not a single person who was
examined, net even the distillers, ventured to state that the
law was such as to ensure the revenue from a system
of fraud. The House would recollect that the drawback
was allowed on the spirits distilled from malt alone. Now
the malt was allowed to he kept in a loft above the build-
ing, where the distillery was carried on. And while that
was done, there was nothing to prevent the distillers from
mixing the malt with the raw grain—(Hear,
hear, hear,)—and by distillimr from that mixed
article, a system of fraud was established. All the vi-
gilance of the Excise could not prevent that system from
being carried on. It was proved that those distillers in the
north of Scotland so managed their distilleries that they
obtained a draw-hack as from malt alone, when it was well
known that the spirits were distilled from malt and raw
grain mixed. It had been said, that no Highlander
would drink spirits except they were made from
malt only, and yet it was proved that it was
as impossible to tell the difference between spirits
distilled from the mixed article, and that distilled
from malt only, as between spring-water taken
from different springs.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Memlar
(Mr. Hos ) had stated that about 300 distilleries
would be injured by the proposed measure. Now, the fact
was that Government had been supplying those persons
with a capital out of the public purse to enr'sle them to
eery kv, their Lusiuc*s. The la•v ...oje,t was
the same in Ireland as Scotland. but the Irish distillers dealt
more fairly with Government than the Scotch.—(Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) The Irish distillers fairly told Govern-
ment that there were opportunities for committing frauds of
which they could avail tnemselve.s when they chose, hot
mat they were so anxious to put down illicit distillation th.rt
they had entered into a contract among themselves to sub-
mit to penalties whenever they were found mixing raw grain
with malt, and claiming the duty as malt only. The
consequence was, that the Scotch distillers exported their
spirits to Irel end, and undrrsuld the Irish in their own
markets. The Irish distillers represented their case strongly
to Government, who appointed a Committee, before whom
all parties were heard, and which Committee were of
opinion that it was necessary to alter the law, both for
the protection of the Irish distillers and of the revenue.
Mr. GILLON observed, that though he had already
expressed his opinion on this subject, he could not avoid
again endeavouring to avert the threatened injustice to
Scotland. The evidence adduced before the Committee
had shown to what an extent smuggling had prevailed in
Scotland previous to 1821, and that it hid now entirely
ceased—in one county alone, where only 5,000 gallons
had been previously brought to charge, there were now
100,000—and in the isl and of 'sling, where there had
been 300 convictions, there had last year been but three ;
and that at the period formerly alluded to, out of a popu-
lation of 17,000, every one was, more or less, concerned
in smuggling. That this change, so beneficial at once to
the revenue and the morals of the people was attributable as
much to the drawback as to the reduction of spirit duty, a
reference to the duties of both would fully illustrate. The
worst consequences were to he apprehended for the agri-
culture of Scotland, in the Highlands, by the uncertain
demand of the smuggler being substituted instead of the
steady market now afforded by the licensed distiller; and
in the Lowlands, by the diminished consumption of bar.
ley, which had hitherto been the grain that had afforded
to the farmer the moat profitable return. A number of
panda now employed in making malt, and cutting and
drying turf, must be thrown idle, a consequence seriously
to be deprecated in tie present state of distress prevailing
in every part of the country. He deprecated a change
as highly unjust to a moat useful and respectable body
of men, who had been induced to embark their capital
in the process of malting and malt distillation, on the
faith of the permanence of the present law. Above
all, he utterly denied the existence of fraud in Scot-
land, and which rested on no proof (abates', r, and
was supported only by gross calumny and interested
ciamour. A reference to the Excise, the only im-
partial judge in this ma ter bud utterly disproved the
allegation. Having now considered the Bill before the
House, he declared that, did fraud exist, it in no way di-
minished the probability of its occurrence ; th it it was
utterly inadequ ate to effect the end in view, and would
Ave no rife t nut that of giving a bonus of sixpence for the
inanutacture of an impure spirit, and materially assisting
the monopolist, at time expenv of the small capitalist. It
the prin.aple ut the drawback was a bad one, it was as bad
with a drawback of eightpence as with one of fourteen
pence. The only mode of preventing the possibility of
fraud had been suggested by the malt-distillers of Scot-
land, who were as much interested as any mass of :nen in
repressing squiggling, and who were anxious to refute
those vile calumnies thrown out against them. The mode
was to oblige raw grain distillers and brewers to store
their malt, arid receive it under permit for consumption.
in the same manner as malt-distillers now received it. It

he was told this would create an expensive machinery. he
asked whit was the use of a machinery that did not meet
the end i❑ view ? He could not examine what the Ex-
,•ise had got to do—various Taxes, such as the Beet and
the Leather Tax, had been repealed, and their time must
he but little occupied in comoquence. He was convinced
the Revenue, instead of improving, would fall off—not
probably fur the first six months, or even a year, but such
would ultimately be the case by the revival of illicit distil-
lation. There was another species of smuggling, well.
known and extensively carried on in Ireland—he mean
~iouggling from the worm mouth—this had been but little
practised in Scotland, but the temptation to it would now
lie much increased ; and there was no proper check against
that species of fraud, now proposed to be established. On
all grounds, therefore, both generally as to any change,
from the necessarily injurious effects of that change on
Scotland, and as applicable to the Bill under their consi-
deration, he should oppose the measure in every stage.
Colonel LINDSAY said the plain question was, that
they were going to impose an additional duty of sixpence
on malt, That was the real question, and they were
called on to decide whether it would be for the advantage
of the revenue to make such a change. The revenue had,
it would appear, increased to, four times it former amount
since the system of drawbacks was put in operation, and

Dr. LusHINGTON said that the proposed measure, so
far as its principles had yet been developed to the House,
was evidently a rneasute which would r• quire to Ise acted
upon with the great at firmness, and at the same time
with the grea'est temperance and moderation. He would
not conceal from himself that a wide-spread conspiracy ex-
isted in Ireland, and if the measures adopted to meet the
exigency thus created were not judiciously chosen and
Prudently pursued, the most disasteroue consequences
!night be anticipated. He thought that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had, under circumstances of great delicacy and
difficulty, chosen the best course that could be adopted on
the question of tithes in Ireland. He agreed cordially, and
from his heart, with tt•.e proposition for the extinction of
tith:s; for, he unlit say, that he agreed wish those who
thought that a worse system—a system more cilculared
to create dissention between the tithe-payer and the
clergyman—never could have been invented. He could,
if this were the fitting time, state what ought to be sub-
stituted for this system ; but he should now content him-
self with sayiug, that in this country, wherever tithes wera
commuted for corn rent, the commutation bad been pro.
ductive of great benefit. When he recommended the ex-
tinction of tithes, he begged to say, at the same time, that
he thought the Protestant C iureh of Irelaud ought to be
fitly provided for. He was not one of those who held the
opinion of property inalienably vested in the invisible body
called the Church ; but he thought that the rights of
present incumbents and proprietors ought to be provided
for ; and, when that had been done, that Parliament would
have a right to deal with the Church revenues. At the
same time he must say, that he should much regret if
those revenues ws.re appropriated to any other object. He
viewed with regret the conduct of the Irish Alemnere on
this occasi,•n ; all of whom, he thought, ought to have
given their best assistance to the passing of this measure,
instead of opposing it as they had done. lie hoped that,
upon re-consid-ration, they would give it their su,.port ;
an r that they would, beside, explain the true nature of it
to their tenantry, and tell those t,-nantry that the charge
was now to be taken from the peasantry to b- placed
upon them. The g►eater part of the land in Irel end was
in the hands of the Protestant landlords, whose property
had always been charged with this burden, and who had
no right to complain of the prevent proposal. lie en-
:reared all those It ish Members, as tt.ey value d the peace
and prosperity of the etpire, and of Ireland to particular,
to support the measure.

Mr. WYSE admitted that the proposal of the Right
lion. Genttertian woutil take away the probability of cola
lision between the tithe receiver and the clergyman, and
that there were some other minor advantages in it; hut
there were also evils ctrinected with it, that more than
balanced these advantages. He especitily objected to the
oroposed coercive levying of the arrears i,f titles. He
assured the Hon. Ge.itleman who spoke last, that the Irish
Members had no wish in the end to oppose the Govern-
ment ; all they wish, d was, to attain the same end, but
by different means. It was because they wished ro see the
•rue principles of Christianity triumph that they wished
to see the Church purified from the incumbrances of too
much rictus. The Christian religion was not a religion
•.f wealth, nor doi it depend on wealth for it success. It
toad its origin in humbleness, and was purest when it was
poorest. All he wanted was the same equality of rights
tar Ireland that England now enjoyed.
Mr. SHAW speed, that the c4.rgy ouht to he pro-
vided dry some plan which would relo-ve them rum their
present distresses. At the same time he could not approve
of the last resolution, the of jest of which ii,enird to be the
.extinction of tithes. He considered ti.e use of t term
" extinction" by the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland
most unfortunate ; it had excited some rxtravigan: expec-
tations in Ireland. and his speech had been pis-te.l iron
some of the Roman Catholic chapel doors the Son,'ay at-
ter it was delivered. The last resolution he coma view in
no other light than that of off ring the Irish Protestant
clergy a mess Of pottage instead nt their birthright. tie
contended that the Church of Ireland at the present ino-
inent was very ill paid, and that instead of receiving a
tenth it did not receive even a thirty-birth of the value of
the produce of the soil. The concluding rr-olu! on o
in his opinion, the first concession to the more mini. r.
ua
party in the pending war on Imelda ion ..ggin.t. p. F. i ty,
theanti
that tput
Ct ilal peril hiss article tit ;G. ll►i.s NLieh
1:073111
,1:1
y
be united but identified. At the ease tine he piole,std

',is readiness to support the resolution immediately under
the con.ideration of the (;ornalittee.

Mr. T. DUNCONIBB remarked, that what was termed
by some the extinction of tithes, was, in fact, -only a dif-
ference in the mode of collection ; itt fact, the resolution
was not at all what beam' eequired, and had a right to
expect, for still, under th 'new system, the money was to
be applied to the maintenance of an overgrown, luxurious.
and sinecure eonblishment with which the peopl at large
had no interest or sympathy. Ile bad heard a Noble
Duke (Wellington) in another place, assert that the law
could not be enforced by any extent of militarf power a,
long as agitation exi-ted. How was it pOssible that agi•
tat'ain should stateside while the people were adverse to the
Church they were called upon to support, and which
Church in on respect contributed to their welfare. The
Right Hon. Btronet had talked about expending a mil-
lion rather than yield to mob dominion; yet the Right
Hon. Baronet had himself yielded to that very (lominion.
At all events, it was not more yielding to mots dominion
now on the subject of tithes, than it was than on the sub-
ject of the Roman Catholic clainrsai—Cheera.) The So-
licitor-General for Ireland had talked of posting notices of
procession the church-doors this was to be a warlti.,,.of
intended coercion ; hut what was to be tintte In parish-8
where the parson bad a fine house 'rich glebe, and no
church ?—(Cheers.) He thought Warmth' ba much better to
provide in the Bill that the notices should be posted on the
cattle-pwands, for it was out of the question to attempt
thus t-o insult the Roman Catholic places of worship. He
did not look at this only as an Irish question,.—the people
IA England were scarcely less interested in it. At pre.
Sent, the cry was for Reform of Parliament ; but ere tong
it svettlil be directed vehemently acainst church abuses t there
would neither be tranquillity in Ireland nor ;t ate in Eng-
land until all abuses, ecclesiastical as cell as civil, were
redressed. For these reasons he he 'would not join in the
unholy cresade now contemplated against the Irish, snit
wiaich was t, he conducted in a rnann-r nut likely to pro-
auote the obj,cta of Christianity. He taeyai•Ated that Mi-
nisters, backed both by the army and Ify the Church, would
never be enabled to enforce their new law. The present
state of Ireland was most tleplorabh. ; but the present
Miniaters were not responsible for it ; it was owing to a
long stoics of micgovernment, and those who ia',w came
forward with any measure, at least desert al credit for their
courage in ;attempting to grapple tvith the overgrown
monster. Ile, however, ()mss ti the Resolutions, becauea,
instead of curing the evil, in his view, they tended to per-
pettmte it.-

Mr. HUNT said, that he still looked upon the whole
measure contemplated by the Government as a delusion.
It was a mere farce to get up a pretended extinctien of
tithes, unless the Catholic people were relieved tem the
payment of any portion of that unjust impnit. Since be
first came into Parliament he bad continually heard the
Irish Members, night after night, describing the distresses
of the people of Ireland in the most affecting manner ;
but he never heard the Government say one word respect-
ing the relief of those distresses. But the moment it was
foond that a small portion of the clergy was distressed,
then they came rot ward with an application to the House
for their relief, and for the ctrereion of the people. He
should oppose the proposition of the Government in every
stage when it came before the House in the "shape of a
Bill. Three-fourths of the people of: tngland tvere as
much opposed as the Irish to the payment of tithes.
Mr. STANLEY had never expected that the Hon,
Member for Preston would be satisfee: eiey elewure
which his Majesty's Government should bring ?inward on
the subject of tithes. The only titestion to which he'
should now apply himself was this, what ulterior mea-
sure ought now to be adopted, after the Committee had
resolved that relief should he given to the clergy? that
being tl e sole object of the resolution under the eonsidera
tion of the C antnittee. The whole object of the measures
contemplated by his Majesty's Government was to remove
the obstacles which stood in the way of the clergy in re-
covering their legal claim. He (Mr. S.) had been taunted
laid, saying that it was time to read a lesson to Irelend,—
(Hear, hear.) He did not use that expr salon in the
meaning in which be was represented to have
used it. He did say that it was necessary that be-
land should be taught a lesson contrary to that which
she had hitherto learned.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He
did say that Ireland oueht to be taught this lesson, that
when she claimed that to which she was justly entitled,
she ought to look to the justice and to the intimidation
and elarrn of Eneland.....e(Cheers.) But was it the fact
that the people of Ireland were opposed to the paytneat of
tithe, ?—( Hear.) He thought not ; on the contrary, he
believed that a great number of those who resisted the
payment, did so through intimidation only, and would he
glad to place themselves under the protection of the law,
and to ply their arrears.—(Hear.) He did not merely
assume this he knew it to be a fact. He had that morn-
ing received a letter from an Irish clergyman, stating that
on the morning on which a P.eport of the speech deli-
vered by Lord Grey in the other House of Patliement on
this ',object reached Ireland, one of the la-gest tithe pay
era in the parish came in with his arrears, and said that
as soon as he saw that his Majesty's Government were
determined to take the matter into their own hands, be
was no longer afraid to pay his tithes.—(Hear, hear.)
It was to recover the arrears due by persons of that de-
scription, and by others who were able to pay them, that
the Government had taken the matter up ; not to recover
them from the rote with whom the arrears had been al-
lowed to accrue from their inability to pay. He looked
upon the tithe system as the frightful parent of many
grievances, which it was necessary to redress without de-
lay : at the same time, that the Government ought not to
allow concession to be wrung by force from their weakness. „
Mr. WYSE explained. PI

Sir J. BURKE said that it was his intention to suppor
toe Amendment of the lion. Member for Wexford, and
cendetnned the policy of tt e Right Hon. Gentleman's Re-
solution. From the mere pauper, Government never
would he able to recover the arrear of tithes ; from the
sulvent farmer. they might at any time.
Mr. A. LF.FROY thought that the power proposed to
he conferred on Government, of coil: cting the arrears of
tithes was perfectly justifiable ; but to the last resolution
b, objected.
Mr. GISBORNE thought the Irish never would submit
quietly to the oppression of our Church Establishment;
and cunt...tided that the Government, by their Resolutions,
were only attemp•ing to stave i ff the evil day.
Sir EDMUND HAYES warned the Ministers how
they made further concession to the outcry of the d ma-
Fogue, as that of Catholic Emancipation hail by no means
realised the golden dream that had been sn fondly held I:ut
by ire advocates. He pressed upon the Government to
arm themselves with sufficient power to prevent the possi-
bility of a faiiure ; and with that view be should give his
most cordial support to the resolution., only lamenting
that they bred not been brought forward some months ago.
Mr. WALKER denied that it was the speeches of the
Irish Members which agitated the Irish people: it was
the speeches of those who knew nothing at all about the
matter that most excited the feelings of his countrymen
Hen. Gentlemen had expressed their surprise that the
people of Ireland should still be dissatisfied, after having
had emancipation conceded to them ; but the fact was
that that was not their only grievance; and it was those
other grievances that they were now seeking to redress.
He did not mean to contend that t,/,ia money might not to
be recovered from such as were solvent; but what he did
contend was, that the coercive measure and the remedial
measure ought to go hand in hand, which would have this
additional advantage.--that the people themselves would
be disposed to pay up such arrears as were justly due.
Mr. SCHONSWAR believed that an extinction of
tithes must take place, though that was not the proper
time for going into that discussion. It was true that
English Gentlemen might not be acquainted with Ireland;
but they knew human nature, and they knew history ;
both of which went to prove that anarchy must follow on
a successful resistance to the law, unless the Government
took means more powerfully to enforce it.
Lord DUNCANNON had implicit confidence in the
declarations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and of
the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland ; and he should,
therefore, vote against the amendment, and support the ori-
Final resolutions. He sincerely hoped that the measure
would answer all the purposes intended.
C.ptain JONES defended the Clergy of Ireland from
the charge of extortion, and in particular he complained of
the misrepresentation of the lion. Member for Wexfor.l.
Mr. JEPHSON said a few words, which were inaudi-
ble in the Gallery.
Mr. H. LAMBERT explained, and contended that there
was no !ear of the people reusing the payment of rent if
the arrears of tithes were not collected, because they re-
ceived something for rent, viz., the land, while for tithe•
they received nothing. If the payment of the arrears were
enforced by c,ercive measures, it would produi e a state of
anarchy. He implored the Ministry not to press the
coercive resolution, and not to enforce bid law at the point
of the sword. He wished it not to go forth to Ireland that
the Ministers meant to prevent the healing effects of ti
c -
benefiial measure they contemplated. e implored the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, who,
repot t said, was to leave them, not to part from them ex
cept in peace and good will.—(Calls of " Question.")
The Committee then divided on the amendment__
Ayes
goes ................................................ 113
Maj,rity
The original resolution was then a4re,d to.
The last resolution was then read from the chair.
Mr. SPENCER PERCEVAL inquired if the Rit hit

lion. Secretary meant by the resolution to take away the
property of the Protestant Church of Ireland and divert
it to other purposes.

Mr. STANLEY felt that this was not the proper
time to enter into an explanation of this resolution, and
what was contemplated. At the same time be must say
for himself, that the property of the Church of Irelano
ought tsfat to ht, directed to other Vorposes than the use o!
the Church.

Mr. HUME thoilglit the tlergy should be paid like the
army. The tithes that'll' be resumed, and the property
appropriated is the most beneficial manner. There was
a time when the clergy directed erer'y thing; that time
existed no longer, and roi* th:;::y ought to 1), looked upon
as public servanta-; trui paid like other public men. It
was too tooth to say that the Protevant Clergy of Iri land
were To retain all this Church property for their Arta Ilse.
Mr. STANLEY explained. He did tot t't'eao that the
whole property was to has leR iIl tti.e tnands of the clergy ;
hut the comtnatatioti 'A..atever it was, would be appro-
priated to the trJF„ry.
:7;iIEIL said on May 6th, 1824, nine Members of
the present Government, includini, the Hon. Member for
Kilkenny, voted for this resolution, viz., " Resolved that
it be referred to a Select Committee to inquire into the
revenues of the Cburch of Ireland, and whether they were
not more than sofileient for the payment of the clergy."
He liked the acts of the Government better than their de-
chtrations. The rtsolutiOn pledged the House to no dis-
tribUtitn, and no peculiar appropriation of the Church
property. lie did mot see how the Lord Chancellor and
the Noble Paymaster of the Forces could es ape from the
resolution he had quo,ed.—(Herr. he4r.) He ought not
conceal from tLe House, tt,at a persuasion existed in Ire-
land that the Miniatrs were pledged to aiiolish the tithes,
and lestaiir the amount of the clerical property of Ireland.
politiccl honour was pledged to it. Why did not
the Ministers, then, wait a few weeks till they were un-
f and able to act as they d,eii right? They
would then have the power, and he was sure they did not
want the will, to rescue Ireland from her present unhappy
situation.

. Mr. STANI.EY declared that none of the Ministers
would he found to depart from the lair interpretation of
any pledges they had ever given. The general question Of
Church property was not then before the House ; but only
a part of it. The resolutions were brought forward under
particular circumstances, and ti meet a particular exigency.
Sir R. INGLIS wished to ask another question. lie
wished to know whether, as the mind of the Right Hon.
Secretary wits made up not to divert the property of the
Pretestant Chutch from church purposes, he would a'sert
that he would also maintain that property in perpetuity ?
(N., no.) He was glad of that cheer ; it was better than
many arguments, and he wished the country should know
it. He again asktd whether they were to be led step by
step forward to injure and destroy the perpetual interests
of the Church ?

Mr. STANLEY declined giving any answer to the
question of the Hen. Baronet.
Mr. HENRY GRATTAN thought there should be a
Irovision made for the permanent and secure interest of
reland, in the appropriation of this property : he would
therefore beg leave to move an amendment, in substance,
" That any appropriation of tithes be made more ac-
cordant with the original destination of tithes, and more
agre.eab'e to the wishes of the people of Ireland."
Mr. STANLEY objected to the amendment—that it
was so vague that no two gentlemen would agree as to its
meaning.

Mr. PHILIP HOWARD rose in consequence of what
had fallen from the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland. He
had supported Mtnistrrs that night in enforcing existing
law; for by the spirit as well as by letter of the law,
whatever calamities might darken the destinies of his
country, it was the duty of every honest patriot un-
flinchingly to cling; at the same time, in any future ap
propriation of the tithes or revenues of the church of Ire-
land which might take place, it was far from being his
opinion that the whole ought to be again devoted exelu
sively to the maintenance of the Established Church.
Under a just division of that fund, the Presbyterian clergy
might be assisted, if not altogether maintained—th,
Ca-
th•dic priesthood, bound by benefits to their country,
would enjoy an independen e, and means for the cultiva-
tion of literature they do not now possess--the Protestant
establishment would still continue to exist, and even to
flourish, upheld in all temperate splendour—whilst the
pesple of England would no longer be called upon to con-
tribute either to the Presbyterian clergy of Ireland or to
the Cellege of Maynootb.
The amendments were then negatived without a divi-
sion ; and the original resolution being read and agreed
to, the report was ordered to be received on Monday.

New Burlington•etreet.

THE NEW MONTHLY MAGAZINE.
Edited by E. L. BULWER, E.g.
The April Number of this popular Periodical comprises,
among oti.er wipoia of conwidorahle interest
The Splendid Village, a Poem of great beauty, by the Author
of " Corn Law Rhymes."
A few plain words to Lord Grey on a great Question.
On the Spirit of Criticism; in which the ingenious
tems adopted by certain Reviewers are fully exposed.
A continuation of the amusing papers entitled " Asmodeus
at Large."
On the Wilful Misstatements of the Quarterly Review.
New Memoirs of Percy Bysshe Shelley.
The true character of George Canning.
Letter of Schlegel to Sir James Mackintosh.
Interesting Narrative of a Settler in Canada, ac. ac.

NEW WORK BY MR. GALT.
Just ready. in 3 vc,ls. post svo.
STANLEY BUXTON,
or, The School fellows.
By the Author of " The Annals of the Parish," " Laurie

Todd," " Bugle Corbett," &c &c.
Henry Colburn and Richard Bentley, New Burlington-
street.