The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING,

perty undoubtedly exercised great influence over the people,.
and it would afford the best means of maintaining our power
in that country if we acted justly and scrupulously fulfilled
all the engagements into which we had entered. The papers
for which the noble marquis had asked had been already
produced, and as regarded the proclamation, it did not re-
quire to be moved for, but ought to have been laid on the
table by command of her Majesty, and he.waannable to say
why that had not been done. He need not say that there
was no desire on the part of Government to withhold from
that house any information which had been given to the
other branch of the Legislature, rior was there any desire to
conceal the feelings and opinions which were entertained by
Government with regard to any part of the correspondence.
It wasthe wish of the Government that it should be publicly
known in what manner Lord Canning had vindicated his
policy, and on the other hand, on what grounds the Govern-
ment had come to the conclusion that that noble lord
had departed from the policy originally laid down in his
proclamation. Having done that, it should be also known
that, as between the Government and the Governor-Gene-
ral of India the most frank and cordial confidence existed,
and that on the part of the Government there was an ear-
nest desire to act with that noble lord with the utmost har-
mony, and that being so he trusted that discussions of this
nature would now be brought to an end, and that we should
not hear again of any supposed differences between the Go-
vernment again
the Governor-General of India.

Earl GRANTILLE said that no one was more anxious
than he was to avoid all subjects of discussion which were
likely to disturb the amicable feelings which existed be-
tween the Government and Lord Canning so long as that
noble lord was employed by her Majesty's Ministry. Al-
though he had had no communication with Lord Canning
for many months, yet the personal relation in which he
stood towards his noble friend had made him, (Earl Gran-
ville) anxious to avoid bringing on any question which con-
cerned him, and he was not aware that the noble marquis
was about to make this motion until he saw his notice on
the paper. But when the noble earl expressed his astonish-
ment that the noble marquis should have brought forward
this question, and that the house should receive the de-
spatch of Lord Stanley as a very friendly production, he
must take leave to enter his protest against any such as-
sumption. He did not propose to re-open the discussion
which took place last year with regard to the.proclamation
of Lord Canning. The question now raised was raised for
the first time on account of a despatch which was written
three months ago. What were the circumstances connected
with that despatch ? In answer to a despatch of Lord
Caroling, remarkable for its powers of argument, and cer-
tainly remarkable for nothing more than the calm dignity
with which the personal question was discussed—(hear)—
and the absence of all personal recrimination, and in which
Lord Canning defended his policy in the clearest manner,
and which, whether right or wrong, laid down the reasons
why he should have published his proclamation at once in-
stead of threatening some course which might be supposed
to have an effect on the native mind and on the land tenure
of Oude—in answer to that despatch was sent out a letter
four months after the despatch itself had been received. He
was not sure whether the despatch of Lord Canning was
received before the close of last session.
The Earl of DERBY was understood to say that it was
after the close of the session.
' Earl GRANVILLE—It must have been soon after. At
any rate, six or seven weeks elapsed after the despatch had
been received, when, in consequence of some remarks in the
Inewspapers with regard to its non-publication, it was given
to the public through the usual channels of information.
After some months had elapsed since it was received this
was the despatch in which it was answered, and any one
who took the trouble to read it, short as it was, would
see that in one of its sentences it was declared that the policy
laid down by Lord Canning in his ploclamation had not been
carried out ; but while regretting that which was oalled a
mistaken act on his part, it was stated that it was hoped
that the measures taken by him for the suppression of the
insurrection would be successful. He would really appeal
to the house whether it could be said that a friendly feeling
was the characteristic of that despatch?
The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH rejoiced that the paci-
fication of Oude had been accomplished, and if her Majesty's
proclamation was bona fide carried out by the Government,
he entertained an earnest, perhaps a sangine hope, that
the peace which had now been established would be main-
tained.

After a few words from the Earl of HARDWICK;
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed that the dif-
ference of opinion between the Government and Lord Can..
ning had been brought under the notice of Parliament in
the first instance by the Government themselves.
The motion was then withdrawn.
INCLOSURE BILL.
The bill •was read a third time and passed.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Public Offices Extension Bill and Court of Probate,
&c. (Acquisition of Site) Bill were read a second time, and
ordered to be committed.
The following bills were considered, and ordered for third
reading :—Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Chester Junction
Railway; and Caledonian Railway.
PETITIONS.

Petitions were presented against the Government Reform
Bill ; for the adoption of a comprehensive measure of re-
form ; for the continuance of the hop duties ; in favour
of the establishment of " intermediate schools" in Ireland ;
for the repeal of the duty on paper; for the admission of
Dissenters to the same privileges as the members of the
Church of England enjoyed in reference to endowed schools ;
by Mr. Berkeley, from Bristol, denouncing in the strongest
terms the Government measure of reform, as a mockery,
and praying for the adoption of the ballot and extension of
suffrage ; by Mr. Bright, to the same effect, in favour of the
Superannuation Bill.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.

Mr. ROEBUCK moved that the house at its rising do
adjourn till Monday. He said,—l do so for the purpose of
making certain observations, and, as I think it possible
those observations may provoke some remarks, I do so, re-
serving to myself the right of reply. I suppose I may as-
sume that the great majority of this house is very anxious
the question of Parliamentary Reform should be settled.
That, I think, is not a very wild proposition, or one unsup-

ported by facts. But it appears to me that the course the

house is now invited to pursue will, if adopted, lead to the
' exactly opposite result. Now, with the permission of the
house, I will address myself to the noble lord the member
for the city of London ; he has put upon the books of the
house a resolution which, if carried, will, though not for-
mally, yet in reality, negative the bill introduced by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer. I think one consequence of
this will be that you may not have a chance of passing any-
thing like a Reform Bill this year, because we are told to
expect that the right hon. gentlemen on the Ministerial
Bench will thereupon dissolve this house. (Some cries of
" No.") Hon. 'gentlemen say " No, no ; " but they are
sure in their hearts that what they so deny will be done,
and if it is done it is quite clear that the question of a Re-
form of Parliament will be deferred till the meeting of the
new house, when we may have a second edition of the pre-
sent bill.

Mr. E. P. BOUVERIE rose to order. He wished to
know whether it was competent to the hon. and learned
gentleman, on a motion of adjournment, to discuss a ques-
tion that stood for debate on a future day.

The SPEAKER said it would be out of order then to
discuss a subject fixed for a future day, but he understood
that the hon. and learned member proposed to address a
question to the noble lord the member for London, on a
notice the noble lord had,placed on the paper.
Mr. ROEBUCK—I hope the house will grant me its in-
dulgence. I am not often in the habit of troubling it at any
length, and what I have to say will soon be brought to a
close. When I was so kindlyinterrupted—(langhter)—l was
about to observe that by the course the noble lord would
persuade the house to' pursue the question of Reform is
very likely to be deferred indefinitely. I would therefore
ask the noble lord to adopt a precedent of his own. During
the last session of Parliament the right hon. gentlemen
opposite brought in a bill to reorganise the Government of
India. That bill did not meet any favourable reception in
this house. The noble lord, then, with that chivalry that
belongs to him, stepped in to aid the right hon. gentlemen
opposite, and proposed that the house should proceed by
way of resolution, that the bill brought in by the Govern-
ment should be dropped, and that the house should come
to a resolution, on which a new bill should be introduced.
The noble lord, having regard to the interests of India—
and thereby for the interests of England also--prepesed that
course. I now ask the noble lord to consider that the
interests of England are bound up with a new Reform
Bill; I ask , him whether he cannot borrow an example
from his own principle, and enlarge the amendments he has
proposed into a series bf resolutions which may be the
foundation of a new and better bill. I put this ques-
tion to the noble lord, and I am sure he will be kind enough
to give me an answer. (Lord John Russell shook his head.)
I now ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, if the
course I have suggested is pursued, her Majesty's Govern-
will be prepared to forego the present bill—(laughter)—and
bring in another framed in accordance with the resolutions
adopted by the house. Having put these two questions,
one to the noble lord, the other to the right hon. gentleman
opposite, I would address myself to the hon. gentlemen
behind me—(hear, hear, and laughter)—particularly the
hon. member for Birmingham (Mr. Bright)—who, I see,
does not approve my suggestion. But I ask those hon.
gentlemen to consider what would be the result if the pro-
position of the noble lord is carried. That proposition can
only be carried by an alliance between the noble lord and the
right hon. gentlemen who now sit on the Opposition benches.
Last
and we are the
house dismissed those right hon. gentlemen • ,
called upon, by a sidewind, to do some.
thing thatrew7lw re-establish them in office. (Hear, hear.)
Now I, for one, am not prepared for that. (Cheers.) I will
go further than that ; I do most earnestly request those hon.
gentlemen who took 'part in the proceedings
consider well what they are about now ; for it is quite clear
that the proposition of the noble lord has been put on the
paper with a full understanding with certain parties on the
Opposition benches. We know well what will happen, and
I ask hon. gentlemen and I ask the country if they are pre-
pared at this time, with the terrible state of affairs existing
ii
abroad, if they are ready to place the destinies of the coun-
try again in the hands from which they took them last year.
Any dislocation of the Government of England at this mo-
ment may lead to terrible calamities abroad. A dissolution
of the House of Commons may lead to instantaneous war!
(Hear, hear.) Let me explain how. Europe does not under-
stand England. It will believe from a dissolution of this house
that all parties are dislocated ; that we and all at sixes and
sevens ; that there is no strength in English public opinion.
It is English opinion that now keeps the world at peace.
(Cheers.) But let the world believe that English opinion
is as nothing, and there will be confusion, riot, and blood-
shed throughout the whole of Europe to-morrow. (Hear,
hear.) With these considerations strongly oppressing- me,
I ask the noble lord not to pursue the course he has pro-
posed. On his shoulders rest the great destinies of this
country now, and by the course he is adopting he may
bring upon us incalculable calamities. (Hear, hear.)
Therefore I say, think carefully what you are about ; let
no considerations of party, no considerations of self, no
considerations of paltry ambition interfere and lead you to

pursue a courEe that may be to the detriment of the coun-
try. I know well that the statements I have made will be
disagreeable to certain gentlemen on that bench. By
adopting the course I have suggested they may avert great
calamities from England, though it may bring on their
shoulders the great calamity of keeping them still in Op-
position. (Hear, hear.) But that is an object lat once
declare I have very much at heart. (Hear, hear.)
lam unwilling to detain the house longer. I only ask the
noble lord to adopt the principle he acted on last year,
and move certain resolutions on which a Reform Bill may
be framed, so that the bill of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer may be entirely dropped.
Mr. COY: rose (amid considerable laughter) to express
his obligati( ms to the hon. and learned member for asking
the questio, is he had done ; he had himself intended to ask
a similar question of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He
was glad the hon. and learned gentleman had put one also
to the noble lord. He was not all satisfied with the posi-
tion in. which. the question of Reform stood at the present
moment. The hon. gentlemen sitting below the gangway
—the Radical party—were placed in a difficult position by
the noble lord's amendment. It did not go far enough for
them. (Hear, hear.)
The SPEA KER stated that the hon. gentleman could
not properly discuss a measure which was not before the
house.

Mr. COX • x-as sorry he was out of order. He would
endeavour to steer clear of that difficulty. He would
suppose that an amendment was moved to the second
reading of th o bill, which, if carried, would have the
effect—as they were told it was intended that it should have
the effect—of
'changing the sides of that house, (Laughter.)
In that case he wished to know what the noble lord the
member for Lon ion would do on the subject of the ballot.
It would be filar ossible for those who sat below the gangway
to assist the no ble lord in regaining the Treasury bench,
unless they reel dyed some assurance that the ballot would
be taken into cc ,nsideration in connexion with any measure
of reform that was introduced. It was high time for the
Radical party tc) tell the Whig leaders that they must not
expect to make ;tools of them for the purpose of obtaining
place, and then. when they had gained their object to
use hon. gentlemen opposite in order to defeat the
rinciples of tlios e who had brought them into power.
Here the hon. gentleman, waxing very animated, acci-
entally struck the hon. member who sat on his right a
blow on the nose, an incident which convulsed the house
with laughter, and prevented him for several moments from
continuing his remarks.] He could warn the noble lord
that that was not a position in which the great Liberal party
of this country would consent to be placed. The noble lord
must not attempt to lie-ad the Liberal party unless he made
up his mind to give them the ballot. The hon. member for
Birmingham, in a speech he delivered a few years ago, said
that if 50 sincere and la onest men in that house united to
secure the ballot they hail the means in their power for
obtaining it. The noble' lord ought to know that if there
were not now 50 there w ere at least very nearly that num-
ber of hon. members in that house who were resolved on
following the course thus shadowed out by the hon member
for Birmingham. He wolald not further detain the house,
but would simply conclude by asking the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether, as al4 parties expressed a desire that a
Reform Bill should pass, it would not be better to proceed
by way of resolution, in order to frame a bill to carry such
desire into effect ?
THE CONCENTRATION OF THE LAW COURTS.
Mr. HOPE asked the First Commissioner of Works
whether her Majesty's Government purposed to take any
steps for the concentration of the courts of law and equity,
in pursuance of the recommendati9ns both of the Incorpo-
rated Law Society and of the Society for the Amendment of
the Law ? He did not ask that question, he said, with any
artistic view, but simply for the purpose of promoting the
convenience of the legal profession. Great inconvenience
existed from the present dispersed state of the courts of law
and equity. Some were in Lincoln'.3-inn, some in West-
minster, and some at Guildhall ; and judges and barristers,
solicitors and clerks, were continually scouring about the
town in cabs and broughams. With a view to remedy that
evil a scheme had been before the public for seine time for
concentrating the law courts on a piece of ground of about
seven acres in extent, situated near all the Inns of Court,
and affording full accommodation for the administration of
justice, both in law and equity. Petitions in favour of that
scheme had been presented from the Incorporated Law So-
ciety, representing the solicitors and proctors, and from the
Law Amendment Society, representing, under the presi-
dency of Lord Brougham, all the most eminent members of
the bar. It appeared likewise that a certain fund, called
the Suitors' Fund, might be made available for defraying
the cost of such an undertaking, at least so far as the ac-
commodation of the courts of equity was concerned. Yet
it was now proposed to rebuild the courts of equity within
the precincts of Lincoln's-inn—a plan which, if carried out,
would render impossible that concentration of the courts of
law and equity from which such great advantages might
fairly be expected. He trusted that the Government would
not sanction any scheme which would have the effect of
maintaining the courts in their present dispersed state, and
that, at all events, no such step would be taken without
the fullest inquiry and consideration.
Lord J. MANNERS admitted that great convenience
would result from the concentration of the law courts, but
there was considerable difference of opinion among the most
competent persons—first, as to whether the fund which the
hon. member had referred to was sufficient for the purpose;
and secondly, whether, such as it was, it could be applied
to the reconstruction of the courts of law and equity.
Under these circumstances the Government were not pre-
pared to take any steps. The subject was one which re-
quired investigation, and the only question was whether the
inquiry should be made by a select committee or a Royal
commission. At present he was unable to say more, but he
would be glad on a future occasion to answer any question
which the hon. member might put to him.
THE REFORM BILL.

Lord J. RUSSELL assured the hon. and learned mem-
ber for Sheffield that it was from no want of courtesy to'
him that he did not immediately answer his question re-
specting the course which he intended to pursue on Mon-
day night. But it appeared to him that it would be com-
pletely out of order, and would not be for the public good to
enter at the present moment into a discussion of the provi-
sions of the Reform i3lll, and of the amendment, which he
intended to move upon the motion for the second reading
of that measure. (Hear, hear.) Still more was he in-
disposed at such a time to consider the question whether
in the event of his resolutions being carried, the Go-
vernment would advise her Majesty to dissolve the pre-
sent Parliament. That was too grave and important a ques-
tion to be discussed upon a moticn for the adjournment of
the house from Friday to Monday. (Hear.) He could only
say, therefore, that in his opinion the Government had
taken a right course in submitting a bill upon the subject
of the representation of the people, and he trusted to be able
on Monday to satisfy the house that he was not wrong in
moving a resolution as an amendment upon the motion for
the second reading of their bill. (Hear, hear.) With re-
respect to the other statement of the hon. member for Fins-
bury, he could assure the hon. gentleman that he never
should shrink from the question of the ballot whenever it
should be brought forward. (Hear, hear.) He should be
ready to give his vote on it in that house, and, if neces-
sary, he should be ready to address the house on the sub-
ject ; but he thought that the hon. gentleman, on reflection,
would feel that it would be unbecoming in him to bargain
with any party in that house for any object on earth (Cheers.)
INDIA.

Lord J. RUSSELL then proceeded to say, that having
noticed the two speeches made on the important subject of
Parliamentary Reform, he would pass on to the question of
which he had given notice to the noble lord, the Secretary
for India. It appeared from all the accounts which were
received—and very gratifying they were—that the pacifi-
cation of Oude had been effected, that the only large body
of mutineers which. remained, had gone into the kingdom
of Nepaul, and that, generally speaking, the revolt had been
put down throughout India. (Hear.) He therefore wished

to know whether it was intended to ask that house to give
a vote of thanks to the Governor-General of India, to the
distinguished general in command of the troops, and to the
other officers, civil and military, who assisted in the great
and glorious event of the pacification of India ? (Cheers.)
He would say further, that he should have left it entirely
to the discretion of the Government to name the time at
which they might think fit to propose the vote of thanks
were it not for"certain papers which had been laid on the
table of the house. (Hear, hear.) A copy of those papers
he held in his hand, and they contained a copy of the
answer of the Governor-General to the secret despatch.

They contained the Governor-General's answer to the Court

of Directors, and also the despatch of the noble lord oppo

site, dated the 9th of December. He was not going now to
revive the question of the wisdom of the proclamation issued
by Lord Canning. He would admit, for the sake of argu-

ment, that it was unwise to issue that proclamation,though
that was not his opinion, but he owned that it appeared to
him that after that matter was settled—after the Govern-

went had sent out their opinion, and after Lord Canning in

a very able despatch had At least shown that he had reason s

for his conduct—(hear)--there were but two courses to pur.
sue with respect to a man in the anxious position of the Go.

vernor-General of India, charged, during a time of as grave

an emergency as had ever happened, with immense respon

sibility, at one time proposing measures, which did not ins eel

with the approval of the Government at home, and al

another time directing military operations which were not
in conformity with the judgment of Lord Clyde, namely
either to tell him that his judgment was erroneous, that he
was unfit to carry on the government of India during this
great emergency, and that some other person would be put
in his place ; or else to treat him with confidence—(cheers)
—and to show that that confidence was not niggardly be-
stowed. (Cheers.) It was with wonder that he (Lord J.
Russell) had read the despatch of the 9th of December,
which appeared, by its cold and sneering tone, to convey a
_ _ _ _ _

distrust, which her Majesty's Ministers did not think fit,
for some reason or other, openly to express. (Hear.) There-

fore, that despatch had created a doubt whether it was the

intention of the Government to do justice to Lord Canning
for his high services, such as had never been surpassed, in
the suppression of the mutiny. (Cheers.) He should be
happy to find that he was mistaken in that suspicion, and
that it was the intention of the Government to propose a
vote of thanks to the Governor-General, to Lord Clyde, and
to the other officers who had distinguished themselves in
India. (Hear, hear.) With respect to Lord Clyde, no man

be felt; for no man in a military position had acted with
could entertain the least doubt that any difficulty would
greater vigour, decision, and iddgment ; and ho hoped that
that gallant general might return and long wear in this
Country the laurels he had gained in India. (Cheers.)
Mr. KINNAIRD said that, as the dreadful events of the
ninthly were over, there was a general expectation that
some distinguished mark of merit would be given to Sir J.
Lawrence. (Cheers.) The late Government of India actu-
ally made a provision fur any honour that might be conferred
on that distinguished man, for they gave him a pension,
and there would be a general feeling of disappointmen if the
man who was considered the saviour of India had not some
mark of favour from the Crown bestowed on him. (Hear.)
Lord STANLEY assured the house that the Govern-
ment fully recognised the great services rendered by Sir J.
was implied by the speech of the hon. gentleman,
Lawrence, but he could not altogether admit what, if
not stated,

( that no recornitionof those services hadtaken place. (Hear,
hear.) He did not allude to the promotion of Sir J. Law-
/ rence from the position of Commissioner -to that of Lieut.-
/ Governor, for the latter rank was only held for a brief
period of tine, but Sir J. Lawrence had received the thanks
of that house, a baronetcy, the Grand Cross of the Bath, a
special pension of £2,000 a year, in addition to the pension
to which he is entitled by right as a retired member of the
civil service, and moreover, Sir J. Lawrence held a seat for
life, if he he desired it, in the Council for India. (Hear,
hear.) He hoped Sir J. Lawrence's career might be consi-
dered as closed, and that some future Government might, if
that distinguished individual did not return to England, still
avail themselves of his services in India. (Hear, hear.)
With respect to the question put by the noble lord, he had
to say that it was the intention of the Government to pro-
pose to that house a vote of thanks to those who, whether in
a civil or military capacity, had taken a prominent part in
the pacification of India. (Cheers.) In that vote both the
Governor-General of India and Lord Glyde would be in-
cluded. The reason, the only reason why the vote of thanks
was not proposed at the begging of the session was, because
though at that time the pacification of India was obviously
nearly accomplished, it was not absolutely effected, and the
Government were anxious to have the opportunity of in-
cluding in the vote any exploit which might still seem. to
deserve the thanks of Parliament. (Hear.) He confessed
that he thought, if it were inconvenient to discuss the
question of Parliamentary reform on the motion for the ad-
journment of the house, it was not less so to take that op-
portunity to discuss a matter fully debated last year, viz.,
the issue of Lord Canning's proclamation. (Hear, hear.)
At the proper time he should be ready to vindicate the
course taken by Government ; but he was not very much
surprised that some political discussions which had taken
place that evening should have recalled to mind the circum-
stances which attended the debate on the proclamation last
year. (Laughter.) If ever that debate should be resumed,
he believed it would be attended with the same result.
(Hear, hear.) With respect to the general conduct of Lord
Canning, as distinguished from that particular transaction,
he did not think that the noble lord the member for the
City of London could speak of him in stronger terms of ap-
proval than he had done, not only of late, but when that
conduct was formerly under discussion in that house. With

regard to the question of the hon. and gallant general re-
specting the artillery, as he had not received notice of it, he
had not had an opportunity of ascertaining when the papers
would be ready, but he would make inquiry on the point.
Lord PALAIERSTON wished to say one word on that

which had fallen from the noble lord in regard to the

observations of his noble friend the member for the City
of London. His noble friend did not revert to the de-
bate of last year, and did not advert to the po.licy of
the Government in regard to India ; but he did make
some observations on that which must strike with pain
every man who read the document alluded to. (Hear,
hear.) His noble friend observed on the taste and
the feeling—to say no more—of that despatch, which the
noble lord the Secretary for India thought it consistent
with his duty to send to Lord Canning—(hear, hear)—and
the noble lord must not be allowed to escape from those re-
marks by endeavouring to revert to the discussions of last
year. (Hear, hear.) He deeply regretted that the noble
lord should have thought it befitting his position as a Mi-
nister of the Crown to write a sneering, taunting, ironical
despatch to Lord Canning, in answer to explanations which
every man might read with admiration. (Cheers.) He
would say nothing as to the concealment of those explana-
tions for many months during which they lay in the office
of the noble lord. (Hear, hear.) At last they came out, and
no man who read them could avoid feeling with respect to
them sentiments very different from those expressed in the
despatch of the noble lord opposite. (Cheers.)

FOREIGN-OFFICE MESSENGERS.
Mr. WISE asked how the £IO,OOO voted in the estimates
for the Foreign-office messengers was disposed of ; what was
the tenure of office of Queen's foreign service messenger;
and what were the regulations which had been recently
made with reference to the remuneration of that corps.
The hon. gentleman made a long statement which was very
imperfectly heard in the gallery, but the purport of which
appeared to be that these officers were insufficiently remu-
nerated, and that the public service suffered in consequence.
Some of them had been appointed many years ago on an
assurance that their situations would be for life and that
their clear income would be £4OO a year ; but it had now
been reduced to £250. Under the old system the greater
the amount of work these officers performed the greater
was their remuneration; but now there was an, induce-
ment for them to do as little as possible.' Many of them
were gentlemen who had given up their position in the
army to accept these offices. When Lord Palmerston
was in office he had caused an investigation to be made into
the matter; and from inquiries made at all the Courts of
Eur6pe it was ascertained that the expenses of out
messengers did not exceed those of France, Russia,
and other large States. The direct tendency of the
new system was to discourage energy and activity.
As the messengers were not allowed travelling expenses their
salaries were not sufficient to support their families. The
present arrangement was most unjust to the officers and in-
jurious to the public service. Out of salaries of £5OO or £525
these officers had to submit to income tax, superannuation
allowances, and other deductions, besides their expenses, so
that they had not more than £250 left. The plan of a fixed
salary would never answer. There ought to be an allowance
of at least £1 a day for travelling expenses. The messengers
were sometimes so heavily burdened with despatches that
they looked like agents of Pickford's. (A. laugh.)
Mr. S. FITZGERALD could not give any assurance of
an alteration in the system. The hon. gentleman complained
at once of extravagance and of the officers being underpaid.
He was desirous of giving the fullest information to the
house, and would on Monday or Tuesday place papers on the
table supplying all that information. The £40.000 referred
to was expended in the payment of expenses of messengers
and telegrams, the cost of which was rapidly increasing.
By arrangements for decreasing the number of journeys to
distant courts there would be a saving of .ElO,OOO or £12,000
a year. The Queen's foreign service messenger held his
office during good behaviour, beinc, appointed under war-
rant by the Secretary of State. All the messengers now re-
ceived £525 a year in lieu of former allowances ; but there
were extra payments for boat hire, &c. The papers to be
produced would give the fullest information.
The motion for adjournment to Monday was then agreed
to.

NOTICES OF MOTION.
THE REFORM BILL.—Mr.' Riot, in committee on the
Reform Bill, to move that in determining on the disfran-
chisement of smaller boroughs it was expedient that the
mere amount of population within such boroughs should not
alone be taken into account, but that the amount of direct
taxation paid by such boroughs should also be considered.
TROOPS IN THE COLONIES.—Sir A. AGNEW to move, on
Monday next, in the event of a satisfactory answer not being
-iven to the question of Mr. Maguire, a resolution to the
effect that the troops in none of the colonies should be re-
quired to salute the host.
RETURNS ORDERED.
NATIONAL COLLECTIONS. -- On the motion of Mr.
Spooner, returns showing the sums expended under the
following heads in each year from 1846 to 1859, severally—
British Museum Establishment, British Museum Buildings,
British Museum Purchases, National Gallery, Scientific
Works and Experiments, Royal Geographical Society,
British Historical Portrait Gallery, Science and Art Depart-
ment, Museum of Practical Geology, and Royal Society;
and, of the sums expended in the purchase and laying out of
the grounds and in buildings on the Kensington Gore
Estate, in each year from 1851 to 1858 inclusive (in con-
tinuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 313, of session
1857-8).