The Sun.
London, England, 1835-10-22 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, OCTOBER 22, 1835.

at borne. Arts, sciences, and education are stated to
be advancing with rapidity t and public works ate
earbAtAgea to the full extent of Whatever inein§
is at the disp6Bal `of the doirerhitehi:
so far a flattering piettire Of dig state, .-2f: ountry,
but we must not lose sight of the
between Holland and • •
Belgiumleads a good deg di.
,• ilu to fact that the rivalry
exar.,.-Yier.:ron on both after mahirlg what
appnts to us the hecss6l.y eltaWhaelcs., the affairs of
Rolland cannot he said 'to be Ai AA tilitaVolitat)lo con-
ditioir. OA The -iantraty, we are persuaded that the
Government is doing all in its power—short of a per-
fect reconciliation with Belgium—to ameliorate the
condition of the Dutch people,

The Number of the London Review, which has
just issued from the Press, contains, among othei int&
resting matter, a very admirable ;artidioli the " Irish
Church Question." Ont hailers will perhaps smile
when we recommend it to their perusal, as
this i;tttri!sting and exciting .qt_teqioii, dictated appa-
rently by no spirit HF pArty. That an inhabitant of
this counit-y tiVould be able at the present moment to
ont'etnplate with philosophic calmness the question
about which the fiercest contests of opposing patties
are engaged, and on which their fate appears to depend)
will, to most people, at first sight appear impossible.
For when great questions become mixed up with the
interests of great political sections, it is almost impos-
sible for the merits of those questions to preserve their
proper preponderance in our minds, over the interests
of individuals. Those who are calm on these matters,
are almost exclusively those who think little about
them. The Reviewer in question appears, however, to
us an exception. He seems to have appreciated the
whole intrinsic importance of the question which he
treats—to have given it his most sedulous atten-
tior—to have investigated it with a constant refe-
rence to general principles. The result of his
reasonings is not the less overwhelmingly conclu-
sive against those who would maintain the present
distribution of the revenues of the Irish Church.
As they are not confin.tti to mere attacks on
the opposite systera ot arguments, but are directed to
the stir,;?lit of h very definite system, which the Re-
viewet would substitute for that to which he objects,
they are less likely than the ordinary controversial ar-
guments to irritate the wavering mind, and they are
more calculated to effect a change of opinion, inas-
much as they not only point out existing defects, but
strongly direct the attention to attainable benefits.
The Reviewer urges, not merely the reduction of
the Episcopalian Establishment to limits correspond-
mg with the number of the members of its persuasion,
and the application of the surplus revenue to the ge-
neral instruction of the Irish people, but argues for
the payment by the State of the Presbyterian and
Catholic clergy. The view which he takes of the
question of the propriety, or rather necessity, of a
public provision for the latter body is comprehensive,
if it has not the merit of originality. But, by the intro-
duction of a much more expressive and correct phra-
seology into the discussion of this question, we think
this writer has done a most essential service to the

cause of truth.
" It has tended much," he says, " to confuse the
reasonings on this question, that anEstablished Church,
and an Endowed Church, have been taken as synony•
mous." And he explains the different modes in
which a State may deal with different religious
denominations :

" It seems to us that no rational and stable legislation in
church matters can be adopted till we recognize the princi-
ple that the state, as state, is no judge of creeds. Govern-
ment, in our opinion, exists solely for the protection of men's
temporal interests. It ought not to carry its regards beyond
the grave. It views religions solely in their temporal cha-
racter ; with their truth or falsehood, their greater or less
tendency to promote man's happiness in a future state, it
has nothing to do. It is the lord, not of the dead, but of
the If' (says M. de Tocqueville in his very able
work on the United States), it is of great importance to
man as an individual that his religion should be true, such
is not the case with the community. The community has
nothing to hope or fear from another life ; and what is im-
portant to it is not so much that all its members should
profess the true religion, as that they should profess some
religion. Whenever the civil authorities interpose their
judgment in ecclesiastical affairs, and decide upon articles of
faith, they commit a double error ; they abandon their duty
as civil governors, of consulting exclusively the present wel-
fare of the community ; and they invade a province which
ought to be safe from their encroachments.
" There are three modes in which the state may deal
with different religious persuasionp. It may support the
clergy and provide for the worship of all, or some, or none.
The first of these systems has been followed in France,
Austria, and Prussia ; the second in England ; the third in
the United States. In order to compare the merits of these
respective plans, as applicable to the case of Ireland, it will
be first necessary to determine with as much precision as
we may be able, the meaning of the principal terms by which
these several systems are designated.
" Religious teachers (says Adam Smith), in the same
manner as other teachers, may either depend altogether for
their subsistence upon the voluntary contributions of their
hearers, or they may derive it from some other fund to
which the law of their country may entitle them ; such as a
landed estate, a tithe or land-tax, an established salary or
stipend.' The former of these two methods is stow gene-
rally known by the name of the voluntary system ; the latter
is called the method of endowment ; which name seems to
us properly applied, whether the fund is derived from
the gift of an individual, and settled on the object
of his bounty in perpetuity, or is annually paid by
the government. 13y the establishment of a religion, we
understand not merely that it is endowed, but that it has
received from the state certain political privileges ; that it
has a legal precedence of other persuasions, and that its
clergy are raised above the clergy of any other denomination,
not only by their endowment, but also by their civil position.
The Presbyterian church of Ulster affords a perfect example
of a church which is endowed but not established. The
same is likewise the case with the Protestant and Roman
Catholic churches of Prussia. The king and court
of Prussia are Protestant, but the Lutherans and,
Calvanists (who are now for the most part united
into one church) have no legal precedence over the
Catholics. There are certain private endowments be-
longing to the ministers of each persuasion, and when these
are not sufficient, the government makes up the deficiency.
Both churches are jointly governed by the provincial con-
sistories, and neither has any rights which do not belong to
the other. On the other hand, the Established Church of
England and Ireland has legal rights which a simply en-
dowed church would not possess ; such as that its prelates
have a seat in one of the Houses of Parliament ; that its
members have an exclusive right of admission to the Uni-
versities of Oxford and Cambridge, &e. Now it is to en-
dowment, and not to establishment, that the voluntary
church system is properly opposed, and hence it would not
be fair to infer that because a person disapproved of esta-
blishments, he therefore approved of the voluntary system :
he might think it both unjust and ifitkpedient for the State
to single out one persuasion as the object of Its favour ; he
might likewise think it injurious to society that the minis-
ters of religion should be left to depend on the bounty of
their congregations, and therefore he might wish that the
State should extend the principle of endowment to all.
" We have already stated our titiirdbtli that the State
should hold itself perfectly impartial with respect to different
religious persuasions. This impartiality may be observed
either by endowing the clergy of all persuasions, or
leaving them all to be maititaitilld Oh the voluntary prin-
ciple, We ,triltss that if there were only two alternatives
in Ireland? either to maintain the Established Church on
its present exclusive system, or to leave all religious worship
unprovided for, we should without hesitation adopt the lat-
ter ; being convinced that the Irish Roman Catholics will
always remain disaffected to the State as long as the Pro-
testant religion is made the object of its undivided favour.
It seems to us, however, a far preferable course, instead of
abolishing, to extend the bounty of the State, and to endow
the Roman Catholic, as well as the Episcopalian Protestant
and Presbyterian clergy."
For the proposal of paying the Catholic Clergy the
Reviewer then goes on to argue is not on the
principle,Svotlatretparryuisionforthereligious
but
wants
ttsh e necessity
themn
oofl a
nity, that he combats the present system, which leaves
the great mass of the Irish people wholly unprovided
with religious instruction. Nor onthat
does he attempt to
palliate the evils of the Catholic religion, or extenuate

its mischievous effects in Ireland: 14e finds in these
very effects 'the stintiggst afgtinients fcif• pidviding for
the Mintstgf6=--iff from
aelvlidanee on the superstition of the people, and
for supplying that poor and ignorant people with the
best and most regular instruetion3 in the deetrineB of
the faith i ich they huid id be title;

wilt& the Paris journals of have
been received. The Courrier Fran raise states that
the Ambassadors of England and Spain have, without
any doubt whatever; teriiiiiistrated with the Minister
for foreign AitairS) Eli the tiAd ftlith tilisk,,fied by the
French Government with regard to the Quadruple
Treaty. They stated that of late the Carlists had
been tiltereti to transport arms and provlsitins into
Navarre, without any hindrance on the part of the
French 'authorities, whose duty it was to have
preVelited a traffic as dishonourable to France
as it was injurious to the cause of the
legitimate SOVEREIGN of Spain. The Foreign Mi-
nister appeared unprepared to meet such a charge,
save on the most general grounds. He assured Lord
GEANVILLE and the Duke de FRIAS that their
respective GoVernments had been misinformed; for
that the surveillance was the same, although the
local authorities were sometimes unable to watch the
movements of enterprising individuals. He like-
wise addressed diplomatic notes to Lord
MEItSTON and M. MENDIZABAL, denying in the
strongest terms the concurrence of France 1n dlly
scheme dangerous to the interests of her Spa-
nish MAJESTY. In his note to M. MENDIZABAL
the Foreign Minister cautions him against paying any
regard to mere newspaper gossip, to the prejudice of
the honour of the French KING and Cabinet.

It will not greatly surprise us if this remonstrance
have a considerable influence on the future conduct of
Louts PIIILLIPPE, and perhaps force him into an
active intervention against Don CARLOS. M. TRIERS
was from the first an advocate for armed intervention,
and since his return from his provincial tour he does not
scruple to say openly, that an armed intervention at the
commencement, would have saved. Spain from the horrors
of a ciyil war. The KING is too cunning to stick by
Don CARLOS one hour after he finds that his case
is hopeless. It is the KING'S character never to keep
on amicable terms with the unfortunate, however
closely he may be connected with them by the ties of
consanguinity, or the claims of early friendship. He
will, therefore, leave Don CARLOS to his fate, as soon
as he is convinced that that fate is dark and inevitable

The only news of any importance from Spain will
be found in our extracts from the French Journals.
They are given elsewhere. We learn from Galignani's
Messenger that M. DUPOTY, who has succeeded M.
JAPRENOU, as responsible editor of the Rffornzateur,
was cited to appear yesterday before the Court of As-
sizes, to answer an indictment, accusing him of exciting
hatred and contempt against the King's Government,
and provoking disobedience to the laws, founded upon
articles published in that Journal on the 15th instant.
An application was made on behalf of M. DUPOTY
to have the trial put off; but the Court refused this,
and condemned him by default to three months' impri-
sonment, and a fine of 5,000 fr.

The French Papers are unusually barren of into.
resting intelligence. The Journal des Debats has a
long article on the late commercial treaty between Aus-
tria and Greece, ratified at Vienna on the 9th of Sep-
tember, in which they claim the right of the free navi-
gation of the Danube, without reference to the dominion
of Russia. We will endeavour to find room for this
article in The Sun of to-morrow.

The foundation•stone of the New City of London
School—as will be seen by reference to another part
of The Sun—was laid yesterday by Lord BROUGHAM,
who took advantage of the occasion, at the dinner
which was afterwards given in commemoration of the
auspicious event, to congratulate the citizens on the
prospect of a sound, practical education for their chil-
dren, which the new Institution opened to them. Our
civic youth certainly stood much in need of some such

_ .
scholastic establishment ; and now that their wants are

supplied, we think it but just and fitting that those of
their seniors should be attended to. By far the greater
majority of our Tory Aldermen require the aid of the
Schoolmaster, to teach them, not only the first rudi-
ments of orthoepy, but the far more important lesson,
how to discharge their public duties in accordance
with the changed character of the times ; we should

be glad, therefore, to see a second City School established,
for their express benefit. Such an institution could
not fail to be attended with the greatest and most last-
ing advantages ; especially to Alderman BIRCH, and
some other Right Worshipfuls whom we could
mention, whose strenuous Conservative eloquence
at the Common Council needs only the aid of a little
grammar, to render it all that eloquence should be. A
few month's attention to Lindley Murray would soon
suffice to give them this ; and then, what oracles
would they not become If they are great in
spite of education ; by virtue of it they would be
irresistible. We wonder Lord BROUGHAM, who is
such an advocate for the general diffusion of know-
ledge, has never directed his attention to the lament-
able state of ignorance by which our Tory Aldermen
—not only in London, but generally throughout the
country—are at present afflicted. We grant that they
are scientific on all gastronomic matters ; and that no
one—not even the illustrious Ude himself—is better
qualified than they are, to supply hints for an essay on

" the nature and properties of turtle-soup ;" but if we
except their knowledge on these points, it cannot be
denied that by far the majority of them are as inno-
cent of any acquaintance with Syntax or Pro-
sody—as incapable of substituting " we were,"
for "we was"—or of pronouncing the word " ap-
ple," without an " H," as they were when they
first issued from their mother's womb. We hope
his Lordship will take an early opportunity of
investigating this branch of his great subject, with a
improving the intellectual condition of our
vievto
Conservative City Dignitaries. They might be in-
structed at a very cheap rate ; and as we disapprove of
the discipline of the birch, their occasional sins of

negligence or obstinacy might be punished by con-
demning them to look on, as mere spectators, at a
Lord Mayor's Feast.

We have seldom read a more judicious, honest,
straight-forward speech than that delivered on Monday
last by the ATTORNEY-GENERAL, to his constitu-
cntg, at Edinburgh. It is worthy of the man—of
the Ministry to which he belongs—of the cause
which he advocates. Sir JOHN CAMPBELL speaks
of the PEEL Government, and their attempts to rule
the helm, in fiat opposition to the wishes of the peo-
p ;
just inthe terms that such persevering folly de-
serves and agrees in opinion with us—an opinion
wlieh we have expressed, at least, a dozen times—
that the wisest speech the Duke of WEL-
LINGTON ever made, was that wherein he
declared that he should be mad if he ever
dreamed of accepting the situation of Prime Mi-
nister. Speaking of the House of Lords, the Hon.
boldlittle
and Learned Gentleman seems to think, that if the
by
only e spheoowplae,front, and are
properly supported or no appre-
hensions need be entertained of any future restiveness
on the part of our hereditary Legislators, reference
ofCoinmonsb
House