The Sun.
London, England, 1859-03-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 5,185 g.

battle ships, as sea-going men-of-war, they are useless
ships—("Hear, hear," from Sir C. Napier)--but they are
by no means useless as floating batteries. They are very
powerfully armed, and in the event, which I hope will not
occur, of England's being engaged in any naval war, these
ships, defective as they undoubtedly are, would be found
extremly valuable as floating batteries for the protection of
our harbours. (Hear, hear.) I am, however, quite ready
to admit that I do very much wish that, even for
their present purpose, I could see these ships succeeded by
more effective and more useful ones. (Hear.) I think that
would be very desirable, but I must ask the gallant admiral
to make some little allowance for the shortness of the time
during which I have had to deal with these matters, and the
amount of work that has had to be accomplished in that
time. It is the wish and intention of the present Board of.
Admiralty that, at all events as the commissions of these
ships expire—l will not say that under some circumstances
it might not be done sooner, but at all events as their com-
missions expire—they should be replaced by stronger and
more effective ships. (Hear.) At the same time I cannot,
for several reasons, agree with the gallant admiral that it
is expedient simultaneously to exchange all these blockships
for larger and more effective men-of-war. Inthe first place,
looking to the duties which they have to discharge as train-
ing ships for the coast volunteers, who are there instructed
in gunnery, and the consequent wear and tear to which they
are exposed, I was unwilling, considering the state to which
our effective strength was reduced, to expose one-third of it
to such deterioration. By the end of the present year our
line-of-battle ships will be nearly 80 per cent. stronger than
I found them, and I shall then be more at liberty to deal
with matters of this kind. There are also other reasons to
which I murt request the attention of the gallant admiral.
One of these is the great expense which would attend the
paying off and throwing out of commission nine ships of
this class, and commissioning other ships in their places.
That is a consideration which we must not altogether for-
get. But there is another, to which I attach greater im-
portance—viz., that we cannot effect such an exchange
without making a very considerable demand upon the
strength and laour of our dockyards. From the causes
which I explained the other evening our strength in the
dockyards has been, and is at present, so taxed to supply
the defects to which I then alluded, that unless it
was imperatively necessary I should be unwilling
to throw upon them the additional labour of pre-
paring an additional number of ships merely to sub-
stitute—for that is all that I should have it in my
power to do—screw 80's for these blockships I hope this
explanation will be satisfactory to the gallant admiral. In
the course of his observations he travelled a good deal
beyond the terms of his notice, and referred to the reserves
which we have it in our power to call out. Ido not think
that this is quite a fitting moment to discuss that subject,
and I will therefore limit myself to saying that in this re-
spect her Majesty's Government are more willing to go
a-head as the gallant admiral calls it, than he gives them
credit for. At all events, I can assure him that their atten-
tion is et present directed to'the state of our naval defences,
and I earnestly hope that at no future day will the gallant
admiral have cause to reproach us with having neglected
them. It now only remains for me to answer his question
as to when it is the intention of the Government to put in
force the recommendations of the4Commission upon the
manning of the navy. I will answer thatquestion. as frankly
as I can. In doing so it is not necessary for me to become
the apologist or champion of my right hon. friend the mem-
ber for Carlisle (Sir J. Graham', who is well able to defemi
himself ; but I must say that I think the observations of
the gallant admiral were eminently unjust to my right hon.
friend. (Hear, hear.) In fact, his remarks with regard to
the report of the committee of 1852 were quite incorrect.
He said that the report of the Duke of Northumberland's
committee of that year had been locked up, and no notice
taken of it. Now, upon every occasion on which I have
addressed the house upon this subject since I held my pre-
sent office I have acknowledged the services which my right
hon. friend the member for Carlisle rendered to the country,
when First Lord of the Admiralty, by taking most decided
action upon the report of that committee. It is owing
to the action then taken by her Majesty's Government, by
the adoption of the continuous service and coast volun-
teer systems in accordance with the recommendations of
that report, that our means of manning the navy at this
moment are what they are. The gallant admiral seems to
have forgotten these facts, and has consequently dealt
rather hard justice, not to the Government of which
I am a member, but to a former one, the members of
which certainly did their duty nobly in this respect. When
the hon. and gallant admiral asks me when the Government
intend to pit in force the recommendations of the Commis-
sion for manning the navy, I beg to remind him that the
report of the commissioners consists of two distinct parts.
The latter portion refers to the important question, how we
are hereafter to connect our naval service with the mercan-
tile marine in the event of any emergency arising. The
hon. and gallant admiral will admit that that portion of the
report is of a very comprehensive and complicated charac-
ter. It involves a great outlay of public money ; it involves
considerable changes which must be maturely weighed ;
and the measures which it recommends are of a nature
which no Government could carry out upon the instant.
(Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances I cannot say more
than that we are sensible of the importance of the report,
and shall give it full and prompt consideration. The other
part of the report stands upon different grounds ; it consists
wf suggestions of different modes in which the commissioners
think we may make the present continuous service system
more effective for the public interests. I admit the great
value of those suggestions, and with regard to most, if not
all of them, I believe it to be competent to the Admiralty,
without the assistance of Parliament, at once to carry them
into effect. We are prepared to consider them as expedi-
tiously as we can, and, if they meet our approval, to put
them in execution as promptly as possible. (Hear, hear.)
Some of them, in fact, have been already under our consi-
deration ; a very important one engaged our attention to-
day, and I hope to-morrow we shall be in a condition to act
upon it. (Hear, hear.)
Sir C. NAPIER explained that he had never read the
report of 1852, nor had he ever seen anybody who had done
so.

Lord PALMERSTON—I am glad to find that the
right hon. baronet and my hon. and gallant friend are
perfectly agreed as to the expediency of replacing the
floating batteries which are stationed at our different
ports by effective, ships, and that the only material differ-
ence which exists between them relates to the question of
time. I think the right hon. baronet has overstated the dif-
ficulty of exchanging the one class of ships for the other,
because he admittd what was stated by my hon. and gal-
lant friend, that the effective ships which are proposed to
be sent to our ports in lieu of the floating batteries are now
ready for sea.
Sir J. PAKINGTON—The noble lord is mistaken ;
they are not ready for sea.
Sir C. NAPIER—Some of them are. (A laugh )
Lord PALMERSTON—I presume they are nearly so;
at all events, as appeared from the statement of the right
hon. baronet the other night, there is nothing which the
Government desires so much as to be able at short notice to
send to sea an efficient Channel squadron. Now, though it
may be true that the block ships would be effective as
floating batteries for the defence of our ports, they are evi-
dently not fit to take their posts in a line of battle. I hope
we are not anticipating at an early period ache necessity of
defending our ports by block ships against the attack of an
enemy ; the only thing likely to happen is that a superior
squadron should appear in the Channel, and that we should
not have a fleet of equal force capable of taking the sea im-
mediately and acting its part in the usual manner of naval
engagements. For such a purpose the block ships are use-
less, and therefore I would impress upon the right hon.
baronet the expediency of accelerating the substitution of
the one class of ships for the other. Ido not know whether
an additional number of workmen might be obtained for our
dockyards, but, as the -right hon. baronet has admitted in
principle that which my hon. and gallant friend has re-
comnattaded, I hope that as little time as possible will be
allowed to elapse 'before the floating batteries are replaced
by ships fit for sea, so that, if occasion should arise, we may
have a fleet in the Channel adequate to the national defence.
Mr: CORRY remarked that the only ships which could
be substituted for the steam guard-ships were the 80-gun
ships, for nobody would think of putting our three-deckers
to do outpost duty along the coast. Now, the 80-gun ships
were all, with one exception, in the second-class steam re-
serve, and it would be necesssary to mast and rig them be-
fore sending them to sea. The expense of fitting them out
would amount to £144,000.
Sir C. NAPIER—Why, all the stores are already in the
dockyards.
Mr. CORRY said it was true that the stores were in the
dockyards, but they were not on board ship ; and he could
assure the hon. and gallant admiral that the 80-gun ships
could not be equipped without great labour and expense.
Mr. BRIGHT—The First Lord of the Admiralty has
not answered the question of the noble lord the member for
Woodstock, with respect to the expense of the squadron
which it is proposed to station in the neighbourhood of the
Australian oolonies. The hon. member for Yarmouth, who
spent several years in those colonies, has given us a pleas-
ing picture of their condition. lie says they have every-
thing they want, with a single exception, that with which
it is now proposed to furnish them. (A laugh.) We
know that they have all the land of Australia, and a
constitution so free that the people of England are
not permitted to hope for anything like it. We also
know they have an increasing trade, and enjoy a pros-
perity such as is not equalled in this country. The rate of
wages--everything in those colonies—forces us to the con-
clusion that the great body of the people there, those whom
we should call the working and industrious classes, are in a
condition of comfort equal to that of the middle ranks of
society in this kingdom. Being so happy and prosperous,
if there be one thing more wanted, and it consists of ships
of war to defend their coasts and harbours, I think it is but
fair they should pay the expenses. (Hear, hear.) It is one of
the most monstrous things ever heard of', and probably has
never been dreamt of in anycountry but this, that we should
have an extended empire, abounding in colonies, such as
Canada and Australia, where the people are infinitely better
off than we are, and yet should contribute not a single far-
thing in any shape either to the sums necessary for paying
the interest of the national debt incurred in past wars, or for
the naval and military service of the home country. If they
are to be parts of the empire, and allowed to demand mili-
tary succour, I do not say even in time of war, but in time
of peace—regiments upon their shores and fleets upon their
waters—l say every farthing of the cost they ought to defray
themselves. (Hear, hear.) I protest against this constant
loading of the industry of the people o England for the
purpose, whether of protecting our rich and prosperous
colonies, or of merely gratifying the taste and sentiment of
persons living at the other side of the world. If we persist
in the course which we have been pursuing for the last few
years, and if the expense of our naval and military estab-
lishments is to increase as it has done during the last 20
years, by a sum equal to £10,000,000 or £12,000,000 per
annum, notwithstanding the tranquillity which now exists,
the time will conic when somebody will see that " ugly rush"
to which the right hon. member for Oxfordshire referred
the other night, and when there will be a ferment among
the millions of our people which all the excited and exag-
gerated fears of the hen. and gallant member for South-
wark will be little able to compose. (Hear.) You have
been telling the house for years past that the only
Power in the world which has a fleet of any pretensions
whatever is -your cordial ally. You have flattered him,
you have fawned upon him, you have expressed your
faith in him in every form of words of which the English
language is capable ; but at the same time you are con-
stantly increasing your military and naval expenses, for
which there would be no sort of pretence whatever if a
single sentence of what you say were true, or if you believed
your own statements. I say your conduct is monstrous.
Youatrnr
yseGhlrfaoeyegti;inviengteennf
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ttynrwoodlnol Trpgle:dhl Or: lhil
hand
laads:
pecies
sgnjorethheenedxepdenthseeoof
brought disaster upon thrones and States. (Heltr, hear.)
Sir E. B. LYTTON—The hon, member for Birmingham
perfectlyNvteticla:ryls"ndieetfsence. 1856 Sir Wm. Denison proposed a plain
made to thea
vtherteiurrenasvmal
for the naval and military defence of Australia. According
proposedthe
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tlamotd theinuitay
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oda t
for
rl
colonial defence, and that the
Imperial
Government
should pay the cog of what was necessary for imperial pur-
tthoet
purelyhat expenseplun of

poses. In fact, it has been the object both of my predeces-
sors and myself to urge upon the colony the necessity of
contributing. largely towards its defence. (Hear. hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL very much agreed with his hon.
friend behind him, that the colonies of Australia should
provide some means for their own defence. Some years
ago, when Secretary for the Colonies, a deputation came to
him respecting some expenses for the harbour of Sydney,
and he told them they ought to pay for them themselves.
They expressed great readiness to do so, and he believed
that since that time every Colonial Secretary had told the
Australian colonies that if they did not want to be surprised
by seeing a number of foreign ships of war some morning
before their ports, they ought to take means to defend the
approach to the harbours. (Hear, hear.) To expect that
this country should be laying taxes on the people for that
purpose was not right. (Hear, hear.) With respect to
the motion of his hon. and gallant friend for the pur-
pose of replacing the guardships by other and more
efficient vessels, he thought the answer of the right
hon. gentleman opposite was satisfactory. (Hear, hear.)
It must be left to the Admiralty to take steps from time to
time as they found opportunity, but he could not say that
he was satisfied with the answer with respect to the im-
portant report on the manning of the navy. He did not
expect the right hon. gentleman to go into details at pre-
sent, but on some other day it would be desirable that the
house-should know what was the opinion of the Board of
Admiralty with respect to these important recommenda-
tions. , Either the methods suggested for manning the
navy were judicious or not, but he could not imagine that
the right hon. gentleman was right in saying that such as
the Admiralty could carry into effect-would be carried into
effect, without referring to this house for additional ex-
pense. The commissioners estimated the expense, and
they put down for improvements in the peace establish-
ments £lOl,OOO. Then, for 2,000 additional coastguard
men, £116,52.5 were wanted ; for 4,000 reliefs in home
ports,. £132,000 ; and for 5,000 short service pensioners,
Marines, £45,625. He could not imagine, therefore, that
it was sufficient for the right hon. gentleman to say that
the Admiralty would take these propositions into considera-
tion from time to time, and adopt them without asking the
house for additional supply. (Hear, hear.) He did not,
of course, now wish to give an opinion on subjects so im-
portant, but he thought that the right hon. baronet should
fix some day, and state what was the effect of the considera-
tion by the Admiralty of that report, than which no subject
was more important. The hon. member for Birmingham
must consider that in consequence of the change in the
mode of warfare it had been necessary to enter into a very
large expense, and no question was more important than
how this country might have an efficient navy, and how
it should be manned.

Sir J. PAKINGTON said he had been misunderstood
by the noble lord. Certain recommendations involved
great expenses, and therefore they must be dealt with by
the Government, and not by the Admiralty. Other re-
commendations referred to minor matters of detail, and it
was with respect to them that ho said the Board of Admi-
ralty was competent to act of itself. With respect to the
recommendation of the reliefs of 4,000 men, he proposed,
when he moved the navy estimates, that the house should
sanction that proposition to the extent of 3,000 men.
Mr. HORS3IAN said, it was not satisfactory to be told
in consequence of the improvements introduced into naval
warfare, that now for the first time since England was a
great maritime country this country was without that su-
periority at sea which would enable her to protect that com-
merce on which the very existence of England as a great
nation depended. (Hear.) Without saying whether or not
England was likely to remain on friendly terms with her near
ally, still this country was in such a condition that if any
unexpected emergency should arise she would not go to war
without the greatest danger of a disastrous issue, from which
she could not recover during the lifetime of any man living.
He was, therefore, very glad when attention was drawn to
the insufficiency of our naval defences, and a heavy respon-
sibility would fall on any Government or Board of Ad-
miralty that delayed ono single day to strain an effort to
place the country once more in a state of maritime security.
(Hear, hear.) Let the house consider the mischiefs of an
interruption to our commerce and manufactures by the com-
mand of the Channel by any other naval power for two or
three months. He would ask them whether any expense
necessary for the improvement of the navy, was not a mere
trifle compared with the enormous consequences which
would follow such an event as he had alluded to. (Hear.)
Mr. H. BARING hoped that the Government would
give some satisfactory explanation to the house of their
intentions with respect to the recommendations of the com-
mission on the manning of the navy on the subject of the
coastguard. _ _

Mr. LOWE said that so long as the home Government
disposed of the resources of the Australian colonies, while
they were, in fact, our penal settlements, no steps were taken
to provide them with defences of any sort. One or two at-
tempts were made to fortify the entrance to Sydney Har-
bour, but they were failures. The colonists now were anxious
to have defences, and ready to pay for them, but it was not
unreasonable to ask for one of the old liners, which were
rotting in our ports, to serve as a guardship for the harbour,
and a naval school for the youth of the colony. He hoped the
lecture of the member for Birmingham would not deter the
Admiralty from making these colonies a station for a com-
modore. We had stations on the coast of Africa and on
the coast of South America, and surely we might afford a
squadron to protect the gold ships on their passage to this
country. It had always been a matter of astonishment to
him that a fillibusterincrb establishment had not been set
up somewhere about the Straits of Magellan. No business
could be carried on with greater ease, or with more profit.
(A laugh.) It might be the duty of the colony to pay for
its own defences, but it never could be its duty to find fleets
to defend the trade of the home country. (Hear, hear.)
Colonel SYKES was constrained to agree with the hon.
member for Birmingham that a period of disaster would
arise in this country if the disbursements went on increasing
after the ratio of the last twenty years. (Hear, hear.) This
increase could only be met by increased taxation, which the
people of this country would not bear. The expenses of
the colonies were a material portion of the disbursements,
and he was glad to hear that they were making arrange-
ments for their own defence.

Admiral WALCOTT thought there was, after all, very
little difference between the gallant admiral opposite and
the First Lord of the Admiralty. He hoped the First Lord
would direct his attention to getting the ships now in the
dockyards finished off as soon as possible. It was abso-
lutely essential that the house should, before sanctioning
any further expenditure for ships, be satisfied that the
Admiralty would build ships on a plan that would ensure
speed. We ought to dispossess ourselves of the notion that
our naval force was inferior to that of any other Power.
(Hear.) It was not respecting the character of our ships,
but the manning of them, that we need have any apprehen-
sions. (Hear, hear.) The most magnificent ship ever
built would be perfectly useless unless it were alive from
stem to stern with efficient officers and seamen. Induce.
ments ought to be held out to our seamen which would
make them proud of the navy. He had no fear about the
manning of our ships if the Government made it worth the
while of the men to enter the navy, and firmly believed that
England would be found equal to any crisis. (Cheers.)
Sir F. SMITH thought that the hon. and gallant admiral
opposite should be satisfied with the promise of the First
Lord of the Admiralty as to the removal of the blockships.
General CODRINGTON thought it should be left to the
Executive to say where particular ships should be stationed.
The country was a little disappointed that we had not a
more extensive Channel fleet. (Hear hear.) We ought to
have a larger Channel fleet, not merely to show that we had
such a fleet, but to afford opportunities of practising to our
officers and seamen. That practice should be constantly
maintained, and gunboats should be practised with the ships
of the line': (Hear, hear.)
The house then divided on Sir C. Napier's amendment—,
the numbers were—

Ayes
Noes

.. 74

Majority against the amendment.... 37
The Speaker then left the chair, and the house went into
committee of supply.
ARMY ESTIMATES.

General PEEL (who was very imperfectly heard) said,
before entering into any explanation of the estimates it was
his duty to lay before the house, or drawing any compari-
son between the past financial year and the present one, it
was necessary the house should perfectly understand the
reasons of any apparent discrepancy in some of the amounts.
The whole amount voted last year for the army was
£11,577,755. The total estimate he should ask for to-night
was £11,568,060 ; between these sums there was a difference
of £9,695. Any one not accustomed to examine the details
of estimates would naturally come to the conclusion that
the £11,568,060 the house would be asked t., vote was the
full expenditure; but this would be an error; the full
amount on the face of the estimate was £12,64060. The
difference of £1,100,000 was made up of the sum due froni
the East Indian Government to the Home Government for

;he pay of the regiments serving in India; this would be
available for the reduction of the expenses of the present
year ; the sum available for the same purpose in the ensuing
year would be £700,000. The money due from the Indian
Government was the debt incurred for the cost of the drill,
rations, and clothing of the extra regiments sent to India,
which for six months was charged against the Indian re 7
venue. That cost was for each infantry soldier £lB is.; for
the cavalry of the lino £3l 13s. 11d. per man ; Royal Horse
Artillery, £73 Bs. 9d. ; field batteries of the Royal Artillery,
£5O ss. ; and the Royal Engineers, £B4 2s. sd. per man.
This large sum of money due from the Indian Government
would be deducted from the gross estimates of the present
year. In addition there was a reduction in the expense of
tho transport of troops, amounting to £200,000. The ensu-
ing year was also leap-year, and the difference of the one
day made a difference in the expenditure of nearly £20,000.
But the amount of the estimates was entirely governed by
the number ofsmen required for the service of the country
The vote required for the pay and allowance of the land
forces for the ensuing year was £3,724,474; for miscella-
neous charges, £562,369; for clothing and necessaries,
£400,000; for provisions, forage, fuel, light, barrack fur-
niture and bedding, £1,003,604 The estimates under all
these heads were mere matters of arithmetic, according to
the number of men composing the land forces of the coun-
try. The numerical force of the army regulated nearly all
the votes for the army ; it was .remarkable how very little
the Secretary of State had to do with controlling estimates.
Even the money expended in works and fortifications was
nearly all votes sanctioned and fixed by the house, and the
Secretary of State had no power to alter or reduce them ;
Practically, out of a total of £12,000,000, there were not
£2,000,000 over which the War Department had any power,
or in which it could make any reduction. As the number
of men must always be the basis of the estimates, in stat-
ing what that number would be for the year ensuing, he
must observe that this was altogether an exceptional year;
he did not think it possible to ask a greater or smaller num-
ber of men than he was about to require. The total num-
ber of men to be voted for the ensuing year, for the whole
British army, was 229,557 ; this was an increase on the
strength of last year of 6,683 men, the number of the army
in the past year having been 222,874. He had really no
p-,wer to increase or diminish tho number required. 'ln
order to show this it was necessary to go back to the state
of tho army before the outbreak of the Indian mutiny. The
army had then just been reduced to the peace establishment,
and its strength was no greater than was required to per-
form the duties of the service abroad and at home. Only
two branches of the service were much affected by the out-
break—the cavalry and infantry ; of these, the number of
battalions and regiments despatched to India amounted to
nearly 30,000 men; I2,regiments of cavalry, and 73 bat-
talions. of infantry were in India at the present time,
leaving only 7 regiments of cavalry and 72 battalions of
infantry to do the whole of the home and colonial duty. •

But during the present year it was anticipated that
several pf these regiments and battalions would be
spared from India for the home service. It was
important that the house should know the data on
which this estimate was founded. He would, therefore,
read a ;letter from Lord Clyde to his H.R.H. the Com-
mander-in-Chief, which would show that the calculation he
had made was no wild speculation, or founded on mere con-
jecture, The letter was dated—
" Allahabad, Nov. 1, 1858.
" In short, I think I can now predict, almost with confi-
dence, that your Royal Highness's wishes with respect to
the return of certain regiments may be accomplished early
in the spring without real inconvenience to this country.
I should imagine that it may be possible to dispense with
the 86th from Bombay, the oldest regiment from Madras
and from this presidency, in addition to the four already
ordered to England by your Royal Highness. As the
Bengal Light Cavalry ought to be almost fit for duty in the
spring, I should hope that the 9th Lancers might also re-
turn home. Perhaps it might not be safe to extend reduc-
tion further for this season."
He knew there was great anxiety felt to know what regi-
ments were likely to return from India in the course of the
next year. Those regiments would all be borne on the
British establishment for the next year, and were, there-
fore, included in the number of men which the house would
be asked to vote. They were the 9th Lancers, the .10th
Foot, the 29th Foot, the 32d, the 53d, the 78th, the 84th,
and another regiment (the name of which, from the man-
ner in which the hon. and gallant general dropped his voice,
it was impossible to catch). It had been necessary that he
should come to some arrangement with his noble friend the
Minister for India as to the number of regiments which
should return from that-country in the course of the year;
for if any number came home unexpectedly, or more came
than had been provided for in the estimate, there would
naturally be anexcess upon the British establishment. This
would require either a supplementary vote to be proposed,
or the Government would be obliged to reduce some of the
second battalions which they had raised. He had, there-
fore, allowed in the course of the ensiling financial year
for seven regiments of infantry now in India, and one
additional regiment of cavalry. This would give 11 regi-
ments of cavalry and 66 regiments of infantry for the
Indian establishment, and 14 regiments of cavalry and 64
regiments of infantry for the British establishment. He
trusted, then, the house would agree that it would be very
impolitic, if not impossible, to reduce the number of these
regiments, or to vote a single man less than ho now asked
for. He would next proceed to show that it would be equally
impolitic for him to ask for a larger number of men. If they
wished for a larger number they could obtain them only by
raising additional battalions ; and there was every reason to
believe, from the present state of India, that the British
regiments would begin to return to England. There was
not the slightest doubt that the Indian Government, look-
ing at the condition of their finances, would be happy to
dispense with the services of our troops at the earliest pos-
sible moment. But under any circumstances, for a long
time to come, he believed they would not be able to diminish
the force in India below 50 battalions. If they carried out
the system of reliefs—so essential to preserve the efficiency
of the British army—which had been laid down, each regi-
ment would not be kept more than 10 years abroad, nor be
allowed to remain less than five years at home. This re-
quired two-thirds of our force to be abroad, while the other
third was in this country. [An Hon. MEMBER inquired
how many men were included in the 50 battalions ?] Ho
took the number at 50,000, though he could not pledge
himself to the exact figures. Therefore to retain 50
battalions in India they must have 2.5 battalions more at
home for reliefs, making together 75 battalions. It would
be very unwise to add to the number of our regiments or to
raise fresh regiments which we were not likely permanently
to require, because, as soon as they became efficient, there
was every probability that they would be again reduced,
and moreover, before they could raise them, they could
supply their place in the meantime by the embodied militia,
who are always better than the new levies. Fault had been
found with him because, as it was said, he intended to dis-
embody the militia lest they should become too efficient.
So far from there being any truth in this statement, there
was.nothing on which he and his Royal highness the Com-
mander-in-Chief had more prided themselves, than on
the efficiency of the embodied militia, a force by whose
aid we had been enabled to furnish very timely reinforce-
ments for India, and to which we were also indebted, not-
withstanding our great exertions for the suppression of the
mutiny, to keep up in this country and in the colonies a
number of men equal to our requirements. At the present
moment there were no fewer than 93,700 troops belonging to
her Majesty in India. He held in his hand a return of the
troops on colonial stations between the years 1840 and 1855,
In 1840 they amounted to 37,370 men ; in 1845 to 36,371;
in 1850 to 35,942; and in 1855 to 28,592. At present the
number was 38,711. He had also procured a return show-
ing the available force of all arms in the united kingdom,
from 1820 down to last year. From this it appeared that
the total force was as follows :
Year. Men.
1820 . • .. .. 55,032
182.5 • • .. 37,622
1830 .. .. • . .. 42,973
1835 44,014
1840 .. .. • • • . .. 47,891
1845 .. . • .. .. 55,668
1850 .. . • • . .. 60,131
18.55 .. 58,477
1858 55,724
The total of 55,724 for 1858 was exclusive of the Indian
depots and the embodied militia, 'which were separately
stated. On the Ist of February last the number of regular
troops in this country of all ranks, comprising. infantry,
cavalry, foot guards, artillery, &c., amounted to 66,236. In
addition to this there were no less than 16,427 men forming
the depots of regiments in India ; besides 23,022 of embodied
militia, making together a force of 105,685 men, exclusive
of marines, pensioners, depots of regiments belonging to the
army in India, and the Irish constabulary. He did not
mean to say this was a body of men sufficient to place our
military establishment on an equality with those of
foreign nations. We never could by any possibility enter
into a competition with foreign countries in respect to the
number of men. What he said was, that her Majesty's
Government had during the course of last year done all in
their power to keep the largest obtainable force together ;
and when he spoke of 105,000 men, he should remark that
it was quite as many as we could find barrack accommoda-
tion for. He thought, therefore, it would clearly be impo-
litic either to reduce or to increase the numerical strength of
our army ; and he hoped the house would have no hesitation
in voting the number of men he proposed. He would now
pass on to observe that more had been done for the welfare
of the British soldier during the last few years than one could
possibly have anticipated. Since he had himself been in
the army the soldier had been better armed, better fed,
better clothed, and better paid. More attention, in
short. had been shown to his comfort in every respect.
(Hear, hear.) He disclainied any wish to take credit to
himself in this matter. He had found things in a state of
progress when he acceded to his present office; and all that
he had since done was to continue the work which others
had begun. But there was no branch of the service which
had not undergone important improvements. The spiritual
instruction of the soldier had been provided for by an in-
crease in the number of chaplains. He was afraid that
what he had done in this respect might not meet the appro-
val of the hon. member for North Warwickshirer-(a laugh)
—though he would be happy to discuss the subjectwith that
hon. gentleman. The education of the soldier had been
carefully attended to within the last few years, and nothing
could be more satisfactory than the reports received as to
the results of these efforts. The soldiers were, anxious to
learn, and their commanding officers gave them every en-
couragement to do so. The schools, the libraries, and the
reading-rooms were well frequented, and the slight indul-
gence which his predecessor had granted and he had con-
tinued—viz., as to the introduction of innocent games of
chess and draughts into the reading rooms had the effect of
drawing the men away from the haunts of intemperance.
On board the transports for India also means had been af-
forded for their amusement. Dictionaries of the Hindos-
tanee language had been supplied to I hem—(a laugh)—and
where practicable persons had been appointed to instruct
them on the voyage. Everything had, in fact, been done
to raise the condition of the soldier, and promote his moral
and intellectual improvement. Soon after he accepted
office a warrant was issued raising the pay and improving
the position of the medical officers, and its result had been
that a very superior class of men, house surgeons from hos-
pitals, and men who had taken prizes in different schools,
were now entering the army in that capacity. A commit-
:tee of that house had directed attention to the importance
rof attention being paid to measures which should prevent
gisease as well as to its cure, and he had no doubt that
rider the able superintendence of Dr. Alexander all the
reobmmendations of that committee would be carried into
effect. Great improvements had also been made in the
Commissariat, which,. though small in numbers, as it must
always be in time of peace, now afforded the nucleus of a
department which might, whenever necessary, be easily and
rapidly extended. It was intended that in future, at the
great camps of Aldershst and the Curragh, the provisions
should be received in gross, and the soldiers should be
taught to help themselves, by being their own butchers and
bakers, and in all 'respects having to act as if they were on
actual service. (Hear.) Another improvement which would
be made would be the subdivision of contracts, so that they
might not be given for such large quantities that, as was
now the case, they must always be taken by the same per-
son. By means of this alteration and the supervision of

the officers of the Commissariat he hoped that the expense
would be reduced, while the quality of the provisions sup-
plied to our troops would be improved. (Hear.) Of course,
the country had a right to ask what means this military
expenditure afforded for its defence. Upon his right hon.
friend the First Lord of the Admiralty must that defence
mainly rest. (Hear.) It would be perfectly impossible to
fortify the whole coast of England. (Cheers.) It was the
duty of the Government to protect the great naval arsenals
—Portsmouth, Plymouth, Devonport, Portland, and such
place and also the mouth of the Thames ; but the idea
of protecting the whole coast was perfectly absurd. (Hear,
hear.) It might be done as 'far as possible by providing
moveable batteries, which to a certain extent would be very
effectual in checking an enemy: but an attempt to prevent
an invasion by fortifying the whole coast would be perfectly
useless. (Hear, hear.) There was one feature on this part of
the question of which the house had heard a great deal—he
meant the intr. &talon of Sir W. Armstrong's gun. It was
impossible for any one to predict what would be the result
of the general introduction of that weapon into our army.
In the course of-the summer he appointed a committee to
examine and report upon the different sorts of rifled ord-
nance which had been submitted to the Government. The
report of that committee was entirely favourable to Sir
William Armstrong's invention. The gun submitted to the
Government by that gentleman was a breech-loading, rifled,
wrought-iron gun, of peculiar manufacture, throwing a
projectile which answered as either solid or hollow shot, as
shell, or as common case. This projectile could also be
modified so as to- be used by naval batteries and on board
ships, and to have a very great explosive effect. The gun
had great durability, he having himself aeon one
which had been fired 1,300 times without the smallest
injurious effect being produced upon it. The great advan-
tages of this gun were its extreme lightness, the extent of
its range, and its accuracy. An Armstrong gun throwing a
projectile of 181 b. weighed one-third less than the guns
now in use discharging shat of that weight. The range of
a 321 b. gun, fired with a charge of 51b. of powder, was a
little more than five miles and a quarter—(hear, hear)—
while the precision of the gun was still More extraordinary.
The accuracy of the Armstrong glut qt 3,QQQ yards was &'s
seven to one compared with the common gun at 1,003
yards; while at 1,000 yards it would hit an object every
time which was struck by the common gun only once in 57
times ; therefore at opial distances the Arnistreng gnn was
57 times as accurate as our common artillery. (Hear.)
Its destructive effect, also, exceeded anything which had
hitherto been witnessed ; the carriages had been very much
improved, and their introduction into the navy would
greatly diminish the number of men tiefliglT4 tp work flip
guns. (Hear.) Having ascertained the superiority of the
tern, the Government could have no hesitation in at once
doing everything in their power to make themselves mas-
ters of it, Great as had been the ingenuity and talent dia,


played by Sir W. Armstrong in regard to this invention,
they w ere exceeded by the liberality with which he at once
presented to the Government the patent, for which they
must b ave paid almost any sum which he liked to demand.
He made no stipulations, and when his noble friend at the
head of the Government asked him (Gen. Peel) to think of
some aura which might be presented to Mr. Armstrong, he
was at once relieved from all difficulty by that gentleman
proposing to accept a suns of £20,000 spread over 10 years,
which w Auld secure to the country his services as consult-
ing engineer of rifled ordnance. For himself, as he had
said, he wade no stipulations, but for the firm to which he
then, but ao longer, belonged he made this arrangement,
that if the:,7 erected extensive buildings for the manufac-
ture of thes e guns, and did not receive sufficient orders to
cover the e rpenditure, an arbitrator, who should be the
Attorney-G eneral of the day, should decide what com-
pensation they should receive from the Government
for the capital which they had laid out. (Hear, hear.)
He was eters vinced that the house would be of opinion
that nothing could be more liberal than the manner in
which Sir W. Armstrong had dealt with the Government ;
and would think that he well deserved the honour which,
by her own special and personal desire, had been con-
ferred upon him by her Majesty. (Cheers.) The manu-
facture of some of the larger of these guns was now being
proceed ed with by Sir W. Armstrong's late partners ; it was
also flu intention of the Government to make some of them
at Woolwich under the direction of that gentleman, and
when lthey had got some of the largest size they would be
tried a gainst masonry and earthwork, till which was done
it was. impossible to say exactly what effect they would pro-
duce upon fortifications. One thing he might predict, and
that was that sooner or later they would supersede the
whole existing armament of the country. He was afraid
that the hon. member for Lambeth must make up his mind
to a large expenditure on that account ; but he was sure
that he would not grudge any money the expenditure of
which would be for the benefit of the country. (" Hear,
hear," from Mr. Williams.) It might also be necessary to
reconstruct a great many of the existing . works ; but he
would not trouble the house with any observations upon
that subject. Nor would he now enter upon the considera-
tion of the different votes. When the house came to them
in. regular order he would give a full explanation of the
grounds of increase or decrease, as the case might be ; but
in. the meantime would conclude by moving the vote of
122,655 men, exclusive of those employed in India.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that this was the largest esti-
mate for the army which had occurred for the last 30 years,
with the exception of two years. In the year 1852 3 the
number of men was 119;519, and the expenditure for this
year was £11,560,000, being an excess of £2,546,000 over
that for the year 1852.3, whilst the difference in the number
of men was only 3,136. He should be glad to know the
cause of this discrepancy. In the year 1854 the number of
generals in the army was 234, but on looking into the arm
list ho had discovered that the number was 500—("oh, oh")
including those in the marines and in the Indian army. He
thought the most nervous man in the country must feel
secure upon learning that the disposable forces of the Go-
vernment, including the marines and the Irish force, were
168,000, besides which the Government had the power of
calling out 80,000 militia. He would add nothing further
upon this vote, but would follow the hon. and gallant general
through the votes as he proposed them to the committee.
Sir A. WILLOUGHBY wished to ask the gallant gene-
ral what was the regulation as to when the period of paying
troops in depot commenced, and how many troops were in
depot at the present moment ? He confessed he was not so
much alarmed for British finance as for Indian finance.
How was it that at that moment, when the mutiny in India
was nearly quelled, 12 companies of foot artillery, number-
ing 2,000 men, were destined for the Indian service ?
Slr DE L. EVANS (who was very indistinctly heard)
expressed his approval of a considerable portion of the right
hon. and gallant gentleman's statement, especially that
portion which had reference to Sir Wm. Armstrong and
the acceptance of his invention. He trusted the Govern-
ment would not delay making such arrangements as would
enable them to have a large supply of the Armstrong cannon
made. While agreeing upon this portion of the right hon.
and gallant gentleman's statement, he still thought there
were some points which called for explanation. With respect
to recruiting, for instance, he suggested whether it might
not be desirable to have a recruiting establishment entirely
independent of the depots. The cause of the frequent de-
sertions which were admitted to take place in the army and
in the militia called for serious consideration with a view to
checking the evil. It might, he knew, be said that the
facilities afforded by railways *ended to increase the evil,
but surely some steps might be taken by precautions at the
railway stations, or otherwise, to frustrate the attempts of
those who desired thus summarily to quit the service. The
system of recruiting in the militia exhibited very great mis-
management, and he understood that it was conducted in
such a manner that the two services competed with each
other for recruits—the line taking one side of the street and
the militia the other. It seemed to him that the inducement
to enter the militia ought not to be so great as to enter the
line, because in the one case the service was but temporary
and partial, and in the other continuous. The number of
desertions, taking them at 20,000 for the army and the
militia, was so large that it was evident there must be some-
thing extremely faulty in the system. (Hear, hear.) There
was another subject upon which he thought the committee
might desire some information, and that had reference to the
great quantity of artillery under orders for India. He under-
stood the,hon..and gallant gentleman to say that 12 batteries
were about to be sent to India, although it might be said that
the mutiny had been entirely suppressed. Why 73 pieces of
artillery, almost sufficient for an army in the field, were to
be sent to India at this moment required some explanation.
With regard to cavalry, it would appear that half of our
force was in India and the other pretty nearly divided be-
tween home and the colonies. We had at present only 35
battalions and 5,000 cavalry at home, which was, compara-
tively speaking, a small force, but one which he hoped would
not be reduced, as he had always been of opinion that the
mass of our forces ought to be kept as much as possible in
the centre., (Hear, hear.)
The SECRETARY for WAR said, in reply to the ob..
servations of the hon. gentleman the member for Lambeth,
that there were 500 general officers on the establishment, he
had to inform him that the actual number was 262 only, or
about half what ho had stated.
Mr. WILLIAMS—I took the number from the Army
List.
The SECRETARY for WAR—With respect to the
number in depots, the number belonging to regiments in
India on the Ist Feb. last was 16,427, and the whole of the
expense of their maintenance was borne by the revenues of
India from the day on which they were raised. He had
been asked by the hon. and gallant general the member for
Westminster why it was proposed to a nd 12 batteries of
artillery to India, but this step had been resolved upon in
consequence of the recommendation of the committee that
nonaore native artillery should be maintained. It was to
do away with native batteries that it was resolved to send
out so large a force of artillery to India. With regard to
desertions, the total number of men who had been actually
lost to the service from Jan. 1, 1858, to Dec. 31, was 9,607 ;
of these 1,976 were restored to the service, leaving the num-
ber of men actually lost by,4esertion, 7,651, or aout equal
to the number who had volguteered from the militia into
the line.
Sir DE LACY EVANS expressed a hope that the Go-
vernment would not' send out the battalion of the regiment
of which he was colonel, for that battalion was 600 m,en
under its establishment. The military force for last year
was 92,000. This year it was 107,000, and this, too, in time
of peace.
General PEEL observed that the most urgent demand
had been made by the Indian Government for troops, which
had been sent not only from this country, but from the
Cape and elsewhere, and their places must be supplied.
He begged the house to recollect how little the militia—a
most efficient body of men—had cost the country during
the last year.
Mr. S. HERBERT was not quite sure the statement
on the army estimates made by his hon. and gallant friend
General Peel was so unfavourable as it at first sight ap-
peared, for, as to desertions, an erroneous calculation might
be easily made, by counting the different desertions of the
same man as different men. One man, it was said, had de-
serted, and received bounties no less than 47 times.
(Laughter.) The altered and improved condition of the
soldier had not yet been impressed on the minds of the work-
ing classes, who were slow to take in those changes. Neither
were they yet habituated to the alternative between short
service and service for life. He was glad to hear the views
of his hon. and gallant friend as to the sanitary condition of
the army. Prevention was far better than cure, and this
applied perhaps beyond any other body of men to the army.
As to the Armstrong gun, he was of opinion that the Go-
vernment deserved the greatest credit for the manner in
which they adopted this admirable and really unequalled
invention. Some thought it better to wait until it would
be seen if there were not further improvements, but nations
could not afford to wait. They must get the best arms
which the present time could afford. It was said the late
Emperor Nicholas was of opinion that scientific skill would
invent something which would supersede railroads, but in
waiting for that something he lost Sebastopol. As to the
Armstrong gun, he must say he heard strong doubts ex-
pressed whether it was as well fitted for naval as for mili-
tary warfare. The projectile which was sent with the
greatest velocity did least injury to a ship. It was said
that the Armstrong gun would discharge but a small-sized
projectile, but that it would drive it right through a ship,
making only a small hole which almost plugged itself,
whereas the cannon with slower velocity sent a ball which
often tore two port-holes into one. This ought to be well
considered. (Hear, hear.) As to the amount of force, no
doubt the estimates were very large, but they were not quite
so large in amount of money as they seemed, for £450,000
were for guns belonging to the navy, and " £700,000 were for
stores, which properly speaking ought not to appear in these
estimates. He did not think that the police force of Ireland
could be counted an available defensive force, because they
could not with safety be withdrawn from theinosition. The
army estimates this year were as large as the army,ordnance,
and navy estimates of 1835, vet he must say he did not think
they could be safely reduced. We had now got into a new
cycle. The prestige of 1815 was broken in 1854. Since
then Europe had resounded with the din of arms. There
were enormous military preparations all over Europe, and
a strong martial feeling was prevalent all over the Conti-
nent, war or peace being considered a mere matter of expe-
diency, and at the discretion of the rulers. The case was
different in England, which would only consent to make

war when immense interests and the notional honour were
concerned. But the warlike feeling of other nations warned
us to be prepared for emergencies. Ho would therefore

support the estimates.

Sir J. TRELAWNY complained of the uncertainty
which the issue of warrants had caused in the army. The
number of officers passed over, as the right hon. and gal-
lant general very well knew, was great, and they felt
deeply the injustice which was inflicted upon them. A
great grievance he had to complain of was that promotion
warrants were read in different Ways, the Horse Guards
putting upon them an interpretation very different from
that which was usually understood. He did not think
that there was any necessity for more than one inspector..
general of infantry, and with regard to fortifications three
things alone were necessary, men, money, and mud.
(Laughter.)
Colonel NORTH defended the officers of the recruiting
department from attacks which had been made upon them,
believing that it was a most efficient corps.
Sir DE LACY EVANS bore his testimony to the gallant
and meritorious conduct of recruiting officers.
Colonel BOLDER() was happy to hear of the improve-
ments that had taken place in the medical and commissa-
riat departments of the army. (Hear hear.)
Mr. DRUMMOND eonstdc.rigl that the pensions at pro.
sent granted were not outticient.
4. DIOOTT took the same view.
Captain VIVIAN thoughtthat some bettermeans should
be taken for the improvement of the system of recruiting,
which as at present prAciised was a disgrace to our military
chii,mtpv.
General CODRINGTON thought it was a disgrace to
kidnap men into a service when they ought to be an honour
to the service. The plan ought to be applied to old novels
instead of being put into actual service. In every other de-
partincnt IA on were given fair wages and a bounty, but in the
army the country did not give fair wages,
was not therefore obtained. (Hear, hear. and a:fair article
There could be
no doubt that the best reeruita were obtained from the
agiicultural districts, the men being, in point
.of stamina,
ilciotus tpul moral character, the best that could be obtained.

He thought that the recruiting system should be so con-
ducted that they should always secure the best men. With
regard to our defences, the honourable and gallant gentle-
man remarked that we should be prepared by the Arm-
strong gun and otherwise for proper defence.
The vote was agreed to.
On the vote of £3,724,424 for her Majesty's land forces at
home and abroad,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY deprecated any intention of
sending an extensive European artillery to India.
Mr. MONSELL was anxious to know what appoint-
ments on the staff were held by the Royal Artillery. It was
very important that these offices should be well bestowed.
General PEEL quite agreed with the honourable gentle-
man that the artillery should have their fair share of
appointments.
Mr. MONSELL—But the question is whether they have
or not ?

Sir DE LACY EVANS said it was a great mistake not
I to give a fair share of appointments to the officers of the
cavalry, that branch of the service combining the qualities
of cavalry and infantry.
Sir F. SMITH thought the engineers at least as deserv-
ing as the artillery.
Mr. ArGITST US SMITH drew attention to theincrease
which had taken place in the total amount for the home
staff; which was this year £131,000, and inquired whether
the gallant general could give any explanation of that in-
crease. He also pointed out an increase in the amount for
staff appointments in Australia, Canada, the Cape of Good
Hope, Gibraltar, and Hong Kong.
General PEEL said the increase was owing to the im-
provements which had taken place during the past year.
The medical warrants had increased the pay of the medical
officers, and the commissariat warrants had increased the
pay of the commissariat officers. He should be glad if the
colonies could be made to pay for themselves—(hear, and
laughter)—but while matters stood in their present posi-
tion he feared that was impossible.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said tho gallant gentleman had
stated that the whole of the charges arose on the number of
men voted. In a committee of the whole house it was im-
possible to enter into all the items, but he would call atten-
tion to a few of them. The vote for beer—and he did not
object to give the men beer—(laughter and hear, hear)—
was £4,000 more this year than last, though the number of
men was 74,806 less. (Laughter.) The hon. member
proceeded to call attention to several other items, which he
thought required explanations.
General PEEL having replied to some of the observa-
tions of the hon. member,
The vote was agreed to.
On a vote of £562,369 for miscellaneous charges for the
land forces at home and abroad, exclusive of India,
Colonel NORTH called attention to the subj ect of hos-
pital stoppages, by which he said the soldier was charged
in excess of the actual cost incurred by the country on his
behalf.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought the salary of the Deputy Judge
Advocate-General ought to be saved to the country.
Mr. MOWBRAY bore strong testimony to the talents
and efficiency of that officer and the value of his services to
the public.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the next vote, of £150,000 for embodied militia,
Mr. WILLIAMS asked for some explanation.
General PEEL said that this sum was.to be voted for
the pay of those regiments of militia which would supply
the place of regiments of the line which were upon the
establishment but were now serving in India, and were paid
out of the revenues of that country. The amount was de-
ducted from the general vote for the pay and allowances of
the troops. It might have been transferred fro, that vote
by the authority of the Treasury ; but he thought that it
was better that it should appear as a separate vote. (Hear.)
The vote was agreed to.
On the vote of £BB,OOO for volunteer corps in Great
Britain,
Mr. H. BERKELEY objected to the expenditure of so
large a sum of money upon a mounted yeomrnry force,
which was merely a toy of the nobility. These yeomen
were, he was ready to admit, all as brave as Julius Caesar,
but they were very bad soldiers and most inefficient con-
stables. (A laugh.) They were told it took three or four
months before a trooper could be placed upon his horse, 12
months before he was fit to go into the field, and then he
was not so good as he might be. Were these men born
warriors, that they could be made cavalry soldiers in 48
hours ? It would be a farce to rely upon these men in case
of invasion. The best thing would be to get rid of them—
to take them off their horses, and to place in their hands
the rifle, which was in modern days what the bow was in
ancient times. Let the country gentlemen, then, put up tar-
gets in their parks, and place themselves at the head of
their men, as their ancestors did in the days of Agincourt
and Cressy. But while the Government allowed this tom-
foolery on the part of the squires and the upper classes,
they turned their backs en the middle classes, although
they had in many cases petitioned the Government to put
weapons into their hands, so that they might be learnt to
protect their wives and families against the foreign in-
vader. He would move that this vote be expunged.
Col. KNOX said that a more indiscreet and absurd speech
he had never heard in that house. (A laugh; and Hear,
hear.) A force more constitutional in itself, and more useful
in the event of invasion than the yeomanry did not exist.
Mr. .WYLD believed that the middle classes had, by
arming in 1815, prevented a French invasion. There was
no reason to suppose that the people of this country, if
taught the use of arms, would turn them against the
Government.

General CODRINGTON thought it of the utmost im-
portance that the people of this country should be taught
rifle firing. (Hear, hear.) Advantage might be taken of
the militia organisation to establish rifle corps in every
county, and if that were done no invasion could ever be
successful. (Hear, hear.)
Sir W. WILLIAMS concurred in what his hon. and gal-
lant friend had said with respect to the advantage to be de-
rived from the establishment of rifle corps. He looked upon
the yeomanry as a most useful and valuable corps.
Mr. AYRTON appealed to the hon. member for Bristol
to withdraw his motion, and to ask for a committee to con-
sider the propriety of establishing rifle corps throughout the
country. Ho himself was in favour of a volunteer force for
the defence of the country; but the yeomanry was a volun-
teer corps, and for that reason ought to be maintained.
Mr. BERKELEY withdrew his amendment, having,
as he said, attained his object—namely, to elicit an exprea •
sion of opinion touching the necessity for rifle practice.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. WILLIAMS, the Chairman reported
progress, and the house resumed. •

REGISTRY OF LANDED. ESTATES, &c.
(STAMPS, &c.)
The house went into committee and passed certain reso-
lutions relating to stamps on proceedings in connection with
the registrylof landed estates and titles to lauded estates, on
which to found a bill.

MANOR COURTS, &c. (IRELAND), BILL,
The house having resumed, this bill was advanced a
stage.

EVIDENCE BY COMMISSION BILL.
On the motion of Mr. YOUNG, this bill was read a second
ime.

PUBLIC OFFICES EXTENSION.
On the motion of Lord J. MANNERS, leave was given to
bring in a bill to make further provision for enabling the
Commissioners of her Majesty's Works to acquire a site for
additional offices for the public service near Whitehall and
her Majesty's Palace at Westminster.
COURT OF PROBATE, &c.
On the motion of the noble lord leave was also given to
bring in a bill to enable the Commissioners of Works to
acquire a site for the purposes of her Majesty's Court of
Probate and other courts and offices.

REMISSION OF PENALTIES.
On the motion of Mr. HARDY, leave was given to bring
in a bill to amend the law concerning the remission of
penalties.

NEW WRIT.
On the motion of Colonel TAYLOR, a writ was ordered:to
issue for the election of a commissioner for Stirlingshire,
in the room of Mr. Peter Blackburn, who since his election
had accepted the office of a Lord of the Treasury.
The house adjourned at half-past 12 o'clock.

THE APPOINTMENT OF SIR ROBERT HAMILTON.
—The appointment of Sir R. Hamilton to a provisional seat
in the Council of the Governor-General of India is to be
commended. Sir R. Hamilton has rendered great services
to his country by his political management of the Central
Indian Provinces; and it is desirable that the Council of the
Governor-General of India should always contain at least
one member conversant with the affairs of the native States.
It is probable that the appointment of Mr. Montgomery to
the Lieutenant-Governorship of the North-Western Pro-
vinces will enable Sir R. Hamilton to take his seat as soon
as he can proceed to Calcutta for the purpose. This will
involve the appointment of another provisional member of
Council; and as, in ordinary course, the next vacancy will
be that of Sir J. Outram, now senior member of Council,
we presume that the next nomination will be that of a
military officer.—Overland

Why is the Lord Chancellor like the great lock
in Chubb's window? Because he has many wards.—
Kelly's Railway Guide.
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