The Sun.
London, England, 1832-02-29 00:00:00

Marylebone and Westminster.—(Hear, hear.) And if, on
he other hand, the Noble Marquis would have sep Ira to
polls taken, then the election will he as much in different
districts; and there will be just as much confusion that
way, as if we gave separate representatives to each of those
districts.—(Cheers.) But the Noble Marquis has also
said that he is afraid of an undue proportion being given
to the representation of the metropolis in this House.
Now, it certainly does astonish me that any Hon. Gentle-
man should think that the addition of eight Members to
the metropolis can give in this House—which consists of
658 Members—such an amazing increase of influence, as
to give rise to the fear that the metropolis should pos-
sess. undue power in Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) But the
.Noble Marquis has argued that, in point of fact, the me-
tropolis is sufficiently represented by the residence of so
many Members in it, and by the presence of all of them
during the sitting of Parliament. Now, undoubtedly, this
fact does give a full representation to a certain class in the
metropolis ; but that class is an upper class, much of the
same rank as the Members themselves; and the influence of
which the Noble Marquis has spoken does not extend
to the midd'e classes—to those traders and manufacturers
who form by far the greatest part of the wealth and in-
dustry of the metropolis.—(Cheers.) I should think that
:no one can contend that the circumstance of a Member
living in Marylebone gives to that extensive parish, and
tolls different interests, an adequate representation : the
immense population of such a district requires to have
representatives of its own, as much as the inhabitants
and traders of any large town in the country. The Noble
Marquis says, that what he proposes is not against the
principle of the Bill. Literally, perhaps, it is not. But
it is, at all events, so great an infringement of one of the
principal details of the Bill, that I think the Noble Mar.
quis's proposition would be most dangerous in its opera-
tion.—( Hear, hear.) The principle of the Bill is to give
to large masses olthe people, and to great portions of the
Wealth of the country, due representation ; and, therefore,
if we were to deprive the metropolitan districts of the
franchise, it world be at least materially injuring the prin-
ciple, even though not actually destroying it.—(Hear,
hear.) I therefore trust that the House will stand by its
decision of last session, when the same question was
brought forward by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ;
and when, in spite of the ingeniousness of his eloquence,
and all the force of his arguments, the House decided (as I
trust they will again this evening), in favour of the Bill
as it now stands.—(Cheers.)
Sir E. SUGDEN—He agreed that the principle of this
Bill ought to be the due representation of the country; but
in his opinion the metropolis was already sufficiently re-
presented ; and, indeed, it was impossible, when so many
Members of that House were connected in different ways
with London, that its views should not always find their
due weight within the walls of Parliament. He was of
opinion that between the question of the voice of the me-
tropolis not being sufficiently heard in the House of Com-
mons, and its being too much heard there, the danger of
the latter was infinitely the greater of the two.—( Hear. )
Let them far a moment consider the extent to which the
metropolis would be represented should this Bill pass.
The number of its representatives might be put at twenty-
two. He saw that the Noble Lord expressed some sur-
prise at this, anti he would therefore endeavour to prove
that lie was correct in what he stated. According to the
old representation, there were four Members for the City,
two for Southwark, and two for Westminster; to these
Were now to be added two for the county of Surrey (for
according to the manner in which that county was to be
divided, the effect would be to throw the whole of the
representation of one of those divisions into the power
of Brixton), two for Merylebone, two for Fins-
bury, two for the Tower Hamlets, and two for Lam-
beth, to which they must also add two for Greenwich ;
for, as his Right Hon. Friend had already observed, Green-
wich should, alter all, be looked upon only as one of the
metropolitan districts ; and dins, by this calculation, the 22
Members were actually made out. But if he were asked
what share the metropolis ought to have in the representation,
supposing. that the whole of the country were equally di-
vided, and supposing that the only grounds upon which
they had to proceed were the wealth, the population, and
the intelligence of any place, he would at once say that it
ought at least to have fifty Members.—(Hear, and a
laugh.) Now, what did this show? Why, that it was
impossible to take the wealth, the population, and the in-
telligence of any place as their sole criterion, and that
many other considerations must be admitted into the ac-
count.—(Hear, hear.) Further than this, he begged to
say, that it appeared to him that the state of the metro-
polis was nut so wholesome and unexceptionable as to in-
duce him to consent to add to the excitern nt that already
existed there.—(Cheers.) He had often heard the Hon.
and Learned Member for Kerry say, that when he began
the Catholic question, it only consisted of seven Members, and
yet, such was the nature of its object—such was its exciting
quality, that he was very soon able to carry the measure
that he had at heart through the agency of that very so-
ciety. When, therefore, he viewed the spirit that was
abroad—when he saw in London a society established for
political purposes, and the doctrines that it professed, he
could not but have a doubt in his mind whether they might
not, by adding to the representation of London, also add
vigour to that association, till at length it should become
too strong for the country at large. Ile thought that one
of the principal things which they had to dread was the
giving too much power to the metropolis. They ought
sot to undervalue the influence of the metropolis—indeed
they could not do that if they would ; but at least let
them take care how they made the fate of the country
depend on the will of the metropolis.—(Cheers.)
They bad unfortunately heard too much of Paris being
France : let them therefore take warning lest they
made London England.—(Cheers.) Had London hither-
to had any thing to complain of? Had not its voice
been heard, and its interests attended to ? Could any one
state an instance in which this had not been the case ?
He thought not; and why then should they lead the
way to mischief by bestowing the representation which
was proposed under this Bill.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
It did not elevate the constituency, while it degraded the
representative. In the constituency which they were
about to create, there was a peculiarity to which he wished
to draw the attention of the House. There were in all
the metropolitan distiicts large plots of ground that were
now uncovered, and that were about to be :built upon.
He would leave the Committee to judge, when these plots
should be filled up, what would be the representation.
He would now make some statement with respect to the
Population and number of houses of the metropolitan dis-
tricts, and would show the House how much both had in-
creased within the last ten years. In the Marylebone
district there were now 241,000 inhabitants, the addition
in the last ten years having amounted to no less than
66,000. A similar increase had take p 1 in the 10/
houses, which, in 1821, amounted to 20,790, but which
now were as high as 29,000. In the Tower Hamlets the
population, in 1821, was 264,000, at present it amounted
to 302,000, showing au increase of nearly 40,000 per-
sons. The number of 101. houses in 1821, in the Tower
Hamlets, was 16,777, but they had now increased to
20,655. In Lambeth, in the same manner, the increase
in the population had been 52,000, Jim.' in Southwark
10,000/. ; and the increase of 101. houses had in Lambeth
been 10,000, and in Southwark 2,385. Suppose a simi-
lar increase was to take place in the next ten years, he put
it to the Committee to consider what would be the aggre-
gate of such a constituency. In London, again, there had
not been, during any time within the last ten years, a greater
number than 8,639 voters polled ; but if this Bill were
passed, the number of voters would be increased by 15,000,
independently of the Lit ery. Such was a part of the mighty
change which this Bill would effect. The objection, however,
strong as it was upon the statement he hail made, was
still stronger when it was considered that this did not stand
alone, but was only part of a general alteration that was to
affect all the portions of the empire. The papers to which
he had referred s=howed some curious facts as to composi-
tions for rates. The Commissioners stated that those
compositions were invariably made when the landlord or
the tenant was unable to pay the rates. Now, as the
rates were seldom or ever imposed upon the full annual
value of the property, it followed that the parties were
obliged to enter into composition for annual payments
far below the value of the property—a fact showed what
were the materials of which the constituency was to be
euu.iposed. There was another passage in the report, to
which he wished to direct the attention of the Committee.
_t
1 stated th it the value of houses in these districts had
lately much increased, that the small houses were readily
taken, because a great number of the persons who took
them expected to live rent free by letting off all the rooms
in the house except one, which they reserved for their
own dwelling. Such was the constituency to which the
Noble Lord was now about to give the elective franchise;
a constituency, a large portion of which, according to this
report, would be formed of persons who were unable to
Pay
the rates upon their houses, and who were unable to
Pay the rent, except they raised it by letting out the
greaterepeee part of their houses to sub-tenants. Yet it was the
entativets of such a constituency that the Noble Lord
described as the representatives of the middle classes. But
ject. Its another point arising out of this part of the sub-
lord _orn was mated in the report, that " when the land-
sideredc
enptoiut.nded for the rates, the occupier was not con-
to vote at the election of parish offieers,
although thacif t election in the particular parish might be
Popular description." So that, in matters so
immediately
ih concerning the occupier as the matters of
pars govern
"") au occupier of the sort here described