The Sun.
London, England, 1835-02-26 00:00:00

rates was contained in that bill, and as the hon. baronet had stated last
night that he had opposed the Church Reform Bill, he felt himself jus-
tified in snaking that statement. He would ask whether the party
to Which the right honourable baronet was attached—(Cries of oh !
followed by loud cheering, which rendered the remainder inaudible.)
But he would put the right hon. baronet altogether out of the question
the whole Cabinet was not centered in him.—(Loud cheers.) Al-
lonfouWellghtinhgetown, whole
ole Cabinet had been at one time centered in the Duke
he did not mean to say that any other individual
.had followed the example of that illustrious person. Surely, the right
non.
connected
dronet would not deny that the party with which he was
1;9
had opposed the diminution of the number of
IthoPs in Ireland ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) Was not the measure
Introduced by the noble lord, the member for Lancashire, opposed in its
‘_ruost essential points by the right hon. baronet? He confessed that
," felt pleasure in hearing that he had been wrong in imput.
lug to the right honourable baronet that he had opposed
the abolition of church rates in Ireland. If church rates were
Abolished in Ireland, were not the Dissenters of England fur-
bished With an argument for their abolition in that country ?
Why Was it, that in the address from the throne th;,,re was
'Pacification of the purpose of government with
"ters, except on the subject of marriage ?WI :espect to die.
Ira" 'Pecifled, he (Mr. Shiel) must conclude
if
that point merely
to afford relief on any ether point, th:Ly government intended
_tioasn of justic.,
the right hon baronet's party Would have stated it. Did not
:appose the bill for the better administra-
w opposed by the party commonly
in Irelana ..-(Cries of " Yes!" and "No !") That bill
The CHANCjc; • Y
hear.) LLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Not by me.—(Hear,
Mr, suit-,
baton '" He spoke now of the party with whom the right hon.
Ind ;ir was connected. Was it not opposed by the Duke of Wellington
" Party in the House of Lords, and were they not
to consider the connections of right honourable gentlemen with
that a
P rty as affording some sort of evidence of the policy which was to
he adopted by that party, although they appeared before the country in
_gem: of reformers ? He would now pass to the course adopted by the
administration since it came into power. With respect to the dis-
solution of the Melbourne administration he would say nothing, but
Point out a few facts and circumstances connected with it. The
!lint honourable gentleman stated last night, and that statement had
()leen followed by the honourable and learned Gentleman who spoke
Of that the appointment of Lord Althorp as the Chancellor
!Saethe Exchequer tinder the Melbourne administration, was the
;flnce of that administration.—(Hear) The fact he believed was,
ilat Lord Aithorp first resigned, and Lord Grey then resigned, stating
uat_lle had lost his right arm. The King then sent for Lord Mei-
n); and engaged him in the formation of a new ministry, and it
Weuld be recollected that about a hundred and fifty gentlemen of that,,
h_onse
kip:ivwolu'aidd wasted upon Lord Althorp, and begged ofhim to resume office.
beg leave to ask this ? Did the death of Lord Spencer de.
nett e bill Majesty of Lord Althorp's services as a member of the Cabi-
No such thing. Then it was said that the House of Commons
Pad lost ire leader. Why the House of Commons was not sitting at the
woe if
Wk._ a vacancy was to be filled up, why not do so, or at least
1;17 not leave the matter undecided till the house of Commons met ?
had que
eheet"lt say that that House had not had fair play.—(Tremendous
sn
of ‘,114.) Why did they not wait to ascertain whether the leadership
tro-"e
up could not be filled up. The argument fell to the
tniti. It was that church stion been
aciglad -
with thenotorious dissolution ofthe the late ministry. There
issued a Church Commission to which his Majesty
t;41441nt his signature—why not wait for the report of that
And i.„64l°n ? Then, the duke of Wellington became prime minister,
If it ''ained for some time all the offices of the cabinet in his own person.
not Was necessary to continue all these offices in one person, why
11 a select another premier ? Some subtle distinctions had been
tb:O between the principles of measures and men. All he would say was
had :LW" only from good men they could expect good measures. What
Who Present Government done ? They called to their Councils men
the
47 ere conspicuous for the strenuousness of their opinions upon
urch question. Then, what was the course they had pursued
He made nu objection to the appointment of the Lord
Zi litenant, or the Chief Secretary. Perhaps they were the most eligible
4. that could be sent there. But the Government had associated
ohnolWith the party commonly called the Orange party, which was
ens:toUs to the country, and whose mark and character were not to be
say en. That party had shown what he might perhaps call a
'age A
It in, exultation at the dismissal of the late Ministry. It might appear
ill_ wet of scorn, that in a public theatre party flags were suspended over
au:!dord Lieu ten'ant's box by a Dublin Corporation. officer. But the present
Of ,;,.latrY had made their choice. They had opposed to them a majority
146-'OY-two, and they had thrown themselves into the arms of the
tot-"t"tY• And this was the course to be pursued with respect to un.
girt hate Ireland! Were all their efforts to obtain reform to be
• allude void ? Were the results of reform to be thus vitiated ?
ehurch of Ireland had destroyed the Administration of Mr.
Ver,,lt had destroyed the Administration of the Duke of
ko,„!rngton—(hear, hear, hear)—it had driven four ministers
07" Lord Grey's Cabinet—it had shaken to its centre the Government
esZ.4tl Melbourne, and it was destined to overthrow the present Ad.
CHATTERTON next rose, when several members leaving
,house, he complained he had not been received with that courtesy
ki,fo he thought every gentleman entitled to expect : he had heard an
147.1,Perate speech from the hon. gentleman who last spoke—(Great rkter)---if he was wrong, he should be glad to be corrected,
thought those hon. men who differed with him would adopt a
lari‘ course by endeavouring to convince him by argument than by
Ilh"141 at him behind his back, for he appealed to the house whether
ss,r,
_44 not met with a-most indecent and most improper interruption.
Ithrd cries of " Order, order," mingled with cries of" Question.")
hso lion. Gentleman, in continuatien, alluded to the practical
'flitch had been made of the word Reform, a word which on the
of the house was supposed to be a panacea for every evil of
et: rttrY.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He was at a loss to under.
oilits 'Pacific meaning, but if Reform meant a general correction
obit 'Pacific
he was a Reformer to the fullest extent. If however Reform
t,,,,•""" 'rote by ballot, the introduction of triennial Parliaments, or other
e"rltres such as those which sought the dismemberment of the empire,
beslll;,Sl 00 Reformer. The hon. and learned gentlemen seemed to be
rthe question on this occasion—(Order, order)—he says that he has
ktirtt any reason given in the Address for the dissolution of the late
rle• He agreed with the hon. and learned gentleman that he
kagr, and he would take the liberty of telling the hon. and learned
man that he did not think this the place for their entering on any
be- "Uttleet.—(Cries of "Question, ouestion !") For his own pa!'s
en
--▪
tue
id ea that municipal corporations, relief to dissenters, triennial
4..7helts and other questions sought for by the other side of the
ee"4owere much better out.—(" Question.") The hon. gentleman, in
kruut said that he saw an allusion in the amendment to the Protes.
lao;krltreh of Ireland, to which he was opposed—(hear, hear, and
et t)"-conceiving it to be giving the people of Ireland a power
the church which is dangerous to its safety, or even existence.
t1:4:11. GRATTAN—The majority of thathouse had placed the gen-
kJ" whorn he then addressed in the chair of that house, because he
Llented the feelings of the majority of its members ; because it was
try""urdance with the feelings of their constituents and of the coun-
ts st 4 large•—(Cheers.) Would they now, he asked, be ready
IsheUeltifY their vote of Thursday last—would the gentlemen of England
thee UPPorted the successful candidate be prepared to nullify the vote
astsee"ave Upon that occasion ? They were now called upon to
lotgh.te an address which did not contain the great principle
etien"elt on that night they had contended, a principle which was re-
-000,„1.4 by the majority of that house, and by the majority of their
brit°l.4 tuents out of doors. (Great cheering.) The interests of
laila Were not alone involved, the interests of unfortunate Ire-
pee' were also at stake.—(Hear, hear.) It not alone concerned the
hare of these countries, but he looked upon it as an European ques-
that lrPsolving the general liberties of the continent. They had seen
for re.e accession of the present ministry to office w the signal
kiap as °lelog among all the despots of Europe.—(Hear, hear.) The
bee' °f. Prussia and the Emperor of Russia hailed their appointment,
ilstaose there the principles of absolutism preponderated. But the
wo°l"
upon which the public affairs were now to be carried on,
trees not alone endanger their liberties, but would drain their
The t 4), which the right him, baronet described as redundant.
Neer ciet'nestion, then, before them was not one merely for a
bet „ of power from the gentlemen on one side of the house to another,
the Was one which brought before them the freedom and prosperity of
beets eou
isntrY.—(Hear, hear.) If any honourable gentleman had
PPfte
Pos to place confidence e fessions of
the 4. Govered nment, the declaration ofin theth rightpro the
hon. baronet on
light before should fully dissipate the illusion. It was clear, manly,
atiee'aightforward ; it contained nothing vague—nothing ambiguous,
Of heti_uPoo one question—the Irish Church. What would be the state
d if they returned, as it seemed they intended, to the principles
the 17.31ern in carrying on the affairs of the country ? On the subject of
gene Church the Honorable Baronet's mind had, it appeared, under.
the n° change. He (Mr. Grattan) believed that he must have forgotten
reams ors of Lord Wellesley in 1834 and of Lord Angleseain 1832, which
tot 0.-" ended a satisfactory adjustment, not only of the Tithe question,
th, at of the Church.—(Cheers.) In these letters it was declared
tithe° Government that they should not send them over any more acts,
bat it theY Were prepared to enforce them at the point of the bayonet;
,hot ..aPPeared, that fault was found with the late administration,
0104 '°r the measures . which they left undone, but for
®cu*hich they had enacted.—(Hear.) He supported the
Of Ornent, therefore, because it fully stated, the opinions
It wis constituents and his own, and he opposed the Address because
berg"! vague and' ambiguous. He acquitted the right honourable
loWoct of having been a party to the intrigues by which Lord
ttle,,_°roe's Government was dissolved ; but could any one doubt that
Issett-17e underhand system went forward at Brighton in 1834, which
lira ~.Ced the recall of Lord Fitswilliam in 1794 ? Theprinciple of Tory-
Viith"sa that which prevailed in the Government of Ireland many years,
Vies. ...the short exception of Lord Hardwick's and the Duke of Bedford's
eotnt-LYaltY. The principle of Orangeism was hatred to their fellow-
bah 'Yrnen, and seeing that many of that confederacy were mem.
l'sieZthe administration, could any one tell him that they were untried ?
atld ! Why they had been tried ; they had brought hatred
rkilectstrife into families and their domestic circles, and had
that they a storm in Ireland without, and such discord within,
?hit le3' could not sit at their fire-sides, for the hellish
of religions discord was destroying the very ties of their farni-
!lold
'lte Re would ask ministers whether they thought they could still
cost government of Ireland? Lord Londonderry said in 1832
44L50 got ern fel* suppressing disturbances in Ireland no less a sum than
.4; ~ yet those very men say they have not been tried. Were
We sk prepared again to expend an equal sum in quclling the
4eloy i'.which they had raised ? Why did they affect to
ge h° ? They had not heard the state of Ireland, but
who—. theY would soon hear it from the hon. member for Dublin,
oatl4 describe it more forcibly than he could. Ireland was
bran R. in a state of civil war. Did they not know that the
s'thareo had burned the houses of Roman Catholics ?—(Hear)
Ilia 4:41 had burned the house of lord Charlemont, and the houses of
apojes ath,Y, and they paraded the streets with muskets and cartouche
defiance of the police : he never called the :t4 right on baronet Ste Zr a renegade but he would tell him who did. d.
of his
bh"leeds did, and his own brother.in-law had been hanged
,-ned in effigy (Loud laughter.) Mr. Burke had
nhqcora ;°PeclY asked, *"
How can you ever love a man
ght to love, if you do not hate the man that you
t° hate ?" Now •it was impossible for the people to love
ten
Ile Whose principles they hated.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
uito„! gaW with discredit and disgust the panacea which
Olen
°Ted for the woes of Ireland. The right hon. baronet, at the con-
-I,44yir his speech last night, let drop two words which were too well
lot Ireland—Church and State, which in that country meant no.
is!,
euhl Protestant ascendancy; yet those were the terms of the address
,atshe. eY Were called upon to support. The simple question was
NI-. the Orange party were still to be upheld in Ireland ac.
hou_to the old system ?--(Hear, hear.) He would remind
`•
c share old
the Duke of Wellington came into power on a
„_°ceasion, he immediately passed the Convention Act,
she,. wsa said to ani_ackt t, cut out the tongue of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)
ti,'Plirect "I that was done, was the selection of jurymen from a list
1,,°10 "trigthe Cast'e ; and the Sheriff's chose none others than
4e,077:4'111 that were found in the Castle Ilst.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
sh_trStion et of the Irish Government in 1812, under the Tory Admi-
Ooe,, was Which was equally oppressive on the Catholics as the former
castl.,., sufficient indication of what they had to expect from the
iett":? Administration. He would not call the attention of the house
mil by t. 110 often before referred to respecting the packing of juries,
ce :e then Irish Attorney. General (Saurin) to the Chief Jul'.
lisrtldek„s Common Pleas (Lord Norbury), which he (Mr. G.)
44 to 'nitrated to the house what description of justice Irish Catho-
settkld 'nitrated
from the return of the Tories to political power.
I,et the the
same Principles he asked be carried into effect ? Was
sh ane "Use aware that even then the principles of the Reform Bill
• it to„t Zattem
Pted to be destroyed in Ireland, and theta conspiracy was
111144140. th"citroy the franchise in that country, and restore, as it
littui;l Constituency to a Wholesome aristocratic state. Attornies
?than Employed, and subscription lists were opened for that