The Sun.
London, England, 1866-03-13 00:00:00

THE NEW NATIONAL GALLERY.

In reply to Mr. BENTINCK,
Mr. COWPER said two of the architects, viz., Mr.
Wyatt and Mr. Hardwick, had retired from the list of
candidates selected. It had been thought that the entire
demolition of the building in Trafalgar-square would re-
sult in a better building than would otherwise be the case.
THE NEW REFORM BILL.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said—Mr
Deputy Speaker—Sir, if in order to estimate the difficulties
of the question which I have now to bring before you it
be right, as I suppose, to take into view not only its own
extent and complexity, and not only the strange fluctua-
tions of circumstances which have attended and marked
its history, but also the weakness of the hands into which
the treatment of it has fallen, then perhaps I may well
say that few Ministers have risen iu recent years to ad-
dress the house under greater difficulties than at this
moment attend my position and task. Sir, these difficul-
ties are difficulties which affect, in the first instance, her
Majesty's Government, and they are perfectly sensible of
the weight of responsibility which attaches to them. But
although they be concentrated in their greatest weight
upon us, yet they are not ours alone.. The interest in the
solution of this question is an interest common to the
whole House of Commons, and to every party and section
of a party that sits within this house. (Hear, hear.) For
let me remind you, sir, that those :paragraphs which you
have heard read aro not the only paragraphs in which,
under the most solemn forms known to the Constitution,
the subject of the representation of the people has been
brought under tho notice of Parliament. By no less than
five Administrations, in,no less than six Queen's speeches
before that of the present year, the House of Commons
has been acquainted by the Sovereign, advised by her
constitutional Ministers, that, in their judgment,
the time had come when the representation of
the people ought to undergo revision. It is need-
less to refer to the terms of those speeches, but
it will be recollected they have not been delivered exclu-
sively at periods when one side of the house was in power.
(Hear, hear.) In 1860 and 1859, by both parties those so-
lemn pledges were given in the face of the country. And
having much to state to the house, I shall not unnecessarily
occupy their time on this occasion by discussing the gene-
ral grounds of the question, whether there ought to be a
revision of our electoral system, and whether the franchises
of the people ought to be extended. With such an accu-
mulation of authority from every quarter in my favour, I
hold it would be superfluous for one moment to debate that
general question. (Hear, hear.) I will assume that by
these declarations, so repeatedly and earnestly made, the
general ground of justification is established under which
her Majesty's present government are warranted in laying
before you a proposal relating to this important question.
I venture to request from the house, not only for myself,
the patience and indulgence which I have received at its
hands time innumerable, but likewise for the question I
have to introduce, that grave and earnest attention which
belongs to a matter of such a serious order. (Hear, hoar.)
It may be said with respect to the origin of this question,
that it is emphatically the work of the House of Commons.
Let me remind the house, as the time has now long gone
by, and as many have taken their seats on these benches
for the first time—let me remind the house of what hap-
pened in the beginning of the year 1851. And I must say
that the event which then occurred was of a nature to
saddle the responsibility connected with the introduction
of thisquestion, in a high and peculiar sense, not on one or
another government, but upon the body of the House of
Commons. (Hear, hear.) It was an independent member,
the hon. member for Surrey (Mr. L. King), who, on Feb.
20, 1851, moved for leave to bring in a bill to grant a £lO
occupation franchise in counties. The sole opponent of
that motion was my noble friend at the head of the Govern-
ment. Every other speaker either approved or was silent
on the occasion. (Laughter.) Every other usual speaker
—every other authority of this house—either approved or
was silent on the occasion. The Government were beaten
by a majority. The minority consisted of 52 members,
and among these 52 there were not, I think, more than 12
or 15 who sat on the benches of the party opposite ; so that
it cannot be denied that the first initiation of the subject,
in the form in which it now comes before us—having begun
as to extending the county franchise only, it was perfectly
well known that a change in the county must cause a
change in the boroughs also—the initiation of the subject
was in a peculiar sense the work of the House of Commons
—and therefore, in inviting you to co-operato with us, the
advisers of the Crown, in endeavouring to bring it to a
solution, r am inviting you not merely to relieve us from a
difficulty, but how to work i §ul4ect that i 4 of couuuou in-

terest to yourselves. The election of a new Parliament
naturally made the Government feel that the time has
arrived when it was right the sense of the representatives
of the people should be again taken with regard to the
laws which regulate our electoral system. The duty of
the Government was a very plain one. No doubt they
had before them the record of former failures; no doubt
they had to deal, as was obvious, with the state of the pub-
lic mind—not clear, definite, and resolute, but rather bewil-
dered and indecisive. But their duty was plain. It was to
exarnine the materials of the case, to cast aside every consi-
deration narrower than those that belong to a great public
and national interest—not to inquire what would be for the
benefit or convenience of this party or that—(hear, hear)—to
be more studious of the substance thltn of the shadow or the
need of their own constituencies—to apply their minds and
the best powers at their commands to the freming of a
prudent and an effectual measure, and then to await the
issue at the hands of Parliament ; but so far as depended
on them, having framed that measure, to sustain and sup-
port it with all the energy and decision in their power.
(Cheers.) The first question wo had to consider was a most
important one ; it was whether we were to attempt legis-
lation in the present :session, or whether we should be
content with mere inquiry. It was beyond all dispute that
a careful examination of the facts of the case lay at the
very threshold. It was want of information, definite and
authentic information, which formed the greatest matter
of contention during the debates in the year 1860. It was
scarcely possible in that year to get clearly at the points in
issue. Such were the doubts, such the misgivings, such
the scepticism, with regard to the figures on one side and
the other, we felt that if we were to come to an issue upon
the merits of the case we must endeavour to make both
ourselves and Parliament masters of .the facts of the case.
(Hear, hear.) Well, wo did not delay. I believe at the
first Cabinet meeting after the funeral of our lamented
head, but certainly before approaching any other domestic
question of a public character, we applied ourselves to con-
sider and to frame heads under which the necessary infor-
mation may be obtained. As soon as these could be framed,
the necessary measures were taken for obtaining that in-
formation, and I am bound to say that the assistance re-
ceived from the Poor-law Department, and in particular
the labours of Mr. Lambert, who has been the person prin-
cipally concerned, were, in point of ability and assiduity,
everything that we could desire. (Hear, hear.) And I think
that if members, whether they sit on this side of the house or
that, will institute au examination of the volume which has
been laid on the table, they will admit that in the collec-
tion of that volume the time has not been misspent, and
they will likewise admit that they have found the advan-
tage of approaching the consideration of this important
question with such a knowledge and such a mass of facts
as was never before collected. (Hear.) We, therefore, can
truly say that no time has been lost. Had we found that
it was not possible by the means at the command of the
Government to obtain information which should be full in
its scope and range, and authentic and trustworthy in its
character, we should have no hesitation in seeking the aid
of Parliament, and postponing legislation until such infor-
mation had been obtained. But when we saw what could
be done, and when, as materials had begun to grow in our
hands, wo perceived what could be done, we had no doubt
of satisfying both branches of the Legislature with regard
to the sufficiency of our knowledge, and therefore we had
not the least hesitation in pledging ourselves so early as
the commencement of the session to the introduction of a
measure on the subject. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I have
been anxious to explain how it is that the time has been
spent not merely for the reason—comparatively of secon-
dary importance—that there had been, he re and there, not
unnaturally, some indications of a disposition to murmur
at the delay in the production of these papers, or to ascribe
it to hesitation, or want of purpose on the pert of the Go-
vernment. Sir, undoubtedly that has not been the case ;
and so anxious have we been to give the House of Com-
mons, so far as we could, the same means of judging
with ourselves, that 1 can truly state that on Friday
evening, I for one could not obtain for my own use
a complete and finished copy of these papers ex-
cept the copy which was laid upon the table of the
House of Commons, and which of .course passed out
of my hands. But the question of time has an importance
very different from that.which it derives from its connec-
tion with vague rumours or vague imputations. It has
this importance, that it is now the 12th of March when I
make to yon the first proposal, and that, adverting to the
approach of the Easter recess, it would not be possible for
us to ask you to read the bill a second time until the
second week of April. Therefore, sir, we have felt, as
prudent and as practical men, we lead to measure what our
powers might be with regard to the legislation in the pre-
sent session, and of course the question arose for conside-
ration, Are eve to have what is called a complete measure,
or are- we to have one that is incomplete ? Now, sir, I
would ask members of the house to consider what is meant
by a complete revision of our representative system ; and
I must omit from the idea of a definition of a complete re-
vision, or from the explanation of it, some branches of
legislation which are favourites, or which have been
favourites, with some members of the house, but which we
as a Government do not admit it to be necessary or de-
sirable to take into consideration. Ido not refer to such
questions as secret voting or the question of the shorten-
ing of Parliament, but I allude to what would strictly be
admitted to belong to a complete revision of our represen-
tative system ; for we, like every one else, are sensible of
the immense advantage which would attend an operation
by which you are enabled to deal with the whole range
of the question at a single stroke. (Hear, hear.) But,
in the first place, there must be a consideration of the
franchise in England and Wales, and there must
be—and perhaps it is still more urgently required—a con-
sideration of the franchise in Scotland. The subject of
the Irish franchise, too, must be considered, although that
is in a simple state, because the nature of the present
electoral arrangements is much more perfect as far as
the machinery is concerned. Then comes not one
question, but the whole group of questions, which are
included in the common phrase of " redistribution of
seats." The question between the three kingdoms—the
question between town and country—the question between
total extinction of the capital punishment such as was
inflicted in schedule A, between the milder method of
amputation administered in schedule B, or that mildest
method of all, which was that adopted by my noble
friend at the head of the Government in 1852—1 mean
the method of grouping towns together. (Cheers.) All
these are matters that must go under careful considera-
tion. Then there comes another question that can never
be avoided when you review the electoral system, namely,
the consideration of whether in all cases the present
boundaries of boroughs are such as the exigencies of
those boroughs naturally require. To meddle with the
boundaries of boroughs for the sake of affecting the
question of town and country representation and the
balance of interests would, in my opinion, be a gross
abuse ; but, on the other hand, whatarecal
ylebdtthheenpautubrliael
boundaries of each borough, as determined
convenience from time to time, not only natural and
useful, but it is an essential part of any complete review
of our electoral system. There is, I am sorry 'to say,
another matter belonging to that roe iew which I do not
believe to be less urgent now than at any other period—
that is, to consider the state of the law with respect to
corrupt practices. (Cheers.) We do not intend to make any
promise upon this subject; it is as difficult as it is im-
portant ; but I am afraid the urgency for it is in no degree
diminished, and undoubtedly it cannot be passed over by
any Government attempting io make a complete review of
the representative system. Then, clearly, there is the
important question of the provision—no doubt of a less
arduous nature, but still fairly a question—for the ad-
ministration of all machinery connected with the work-
ing of the proceedings at elections. Well, Sir, these sub-
jects, great in themselves, and complex in themselves,
have been flu ther complicated by the speculations of
many men of great ability and great authority, who have
thought that the time has come when, taken on the one
side, the demand for the extension of the franchise, and
on the other side the difficulty which we have to
encounter with respect to an undue distribution of power
among the different classes of the community—the time
has come when, introducing propositions in one form or
another which are of importance, one or other or several of
them may be supported by arguments most ingenious, and
by authorities most weighty—propositions of which it may
be emphatically said, that they are in the old English sense
innovations, and which as being innovations never came
under the review and criticism of this house without a
careful, searching, and jealous examination. (Cheers.)
Was it possible for us to suppose that as we now stand we
could expect that Parliament would give itself to the com-
plete review I have described in the present session ? It is
very good, it is very much conformable to the habits of
this country, and to our constitutional practices, to enter-
tainar.a_
a high idea of what we call the omnipotence of parlia-
ment. ment. Time and.space cannot yet be annihilaotewdheavteee
make lovers happy, or for any other pP vetro.
in
whichNvith these subjects. Nei-
ther command,
anAdntdhel
pwoasni
tti trio know
rr e iss esd,ti:nned awt our
command, and the position i 1 we stand, and what
is the time requisite for dealin
gthaerrdsoftht
eh etsi n
eq uneosltvi oantsoiuslrvceoruyigmd iaffiticd ttoh answer.ink,
so A
far
as s rwe
e-
:salivae fromll prop stheethheousesecofnedr
thisrtehaediinng-
middle
eeo
fmea
July,
swe
Which
hlilvtehbheik-
troduation of , w
can reckon, if we obtainb.ll
Won the
will be the latest period at which such a bill could be sent
on the 12th12AtphrAil,prainldansdu
pthPeosminigddt
up to the House of Lords, I find the Government nights
would amount to twenty-four, and one-half at least of those
must necessarily be occupied by the financial business of
the nation and of supply, and beyond that we shall have
nothing to depend upon but the cbarity of private mem-
bers and the crumbs which may fall into our lap. (Oh!
oh !) What have we found in former years ? In 1860 we
spent months, I may say, in trying to do nothing, but there
is one example, the great example of the Reform Act,
which may give us some idea of the time occupied by a
complete review of our electoral system. One single bill of
the three out of which the Reform Act grew—one single one
of those three bills—occupied in one of its three forms 50
nights of the House of Commons. I believe I should under-
state the case if I said that 100 nights at least were requi-
si_a for the complete review of the electoral system which
was achieved in 1831 and 1832. It may be said, and said
very truly, that at that time there was a political heat and
eXcitement and apprehension that does not now exist.

MK ZINN.

do not suppose anysuch review as I have indicated would
require a less amount of time in the present day. Then let
me point out the time occupied in passing that act, which
' was not less than six or eight times the extent of that
which is now even the most sanguine estimate of our time
.tintYohi
osoueyrunno
domestic.
udnuirtist
i t dotrl
e3O esdsante
winter,lcorerb sacrificed,
completelygcaadea
nns,obligations,
ybdno:::uttyeaore,nung.reviewturned
nuey dernthe
oduuepwc d
d
‘nidanl electoralaldy;e m intoeveryaa nnd night
yiogooshnuy tes
sacrificed
aeni
sacrificecmvar
ie s; but
fimsc,maaei
ydi
you were compelled to do it—all
other legislation which required debate and serious discus-
sion for two years. These are not the circumstances in
which we now stand. Wo may now reckon, I have no
doubt, upon very fair and indulgent treatment with respect,
to the progress of a measure of this kind. Do not let it bo
supposed for a moment that I am apprehensive of what is
called obstruction. The other day my eye fell upon a pas-.
sage uttered a few years ago by the right hon. gentleman
opposite (Mr. Disraeli). In 1860 he said we should
treat this subject without delay, but with that deep
and deliberate investigation of a great subject which,
was in accordance with the freedom of discussion frir
which the Parliament of England was characterised. And
the right hon. gentleman was justified in that observation,
and we should be guilty of a breach of duty if we should
now follow any other course. We do not doubt for one
moment that the first point of importance is that which re-.,
lates to the enfranchisement of large masses of our
countrymen, who are now excluded from the electoral suf-
frage. When I use the words largo masses do not let me
be misunderstood. I mean large numbers. We have thought
it right to lay upon the table such a bill as that on which
we could ask the judgment of Parliament, and not that,
which would add to the discreditable failures that hay,-0
already occurred—one which would be still more disastrous
and discreditable. A question from an hon. baronet 'oppo-
site has alrezidy given me an indication as far as the Scotch
franchise is concerned. Wo must not suppose that we can
and perhaps
We ewaildlmbeitatshkaetdt,he present plan
support this question of England without being prepared to
idseainlcwomitphleittei,n
will you com-
plete it ? I have ever been averse—and I think it is an,
aversion justified by general observation and experience--
I have ever been averse to deal in pledges for future periods.
Because such is the number and variety of circumstances
which must affect the position and duties of the Govern-
ment of an empire like this at future periods that, in my
opinion, we must leave it to the future to determine the
opportunities to deal with important questions. But I am,
free to say—while I am convinced that the question, the
group of questions, included in the complex idea of Pariia-
mentary Reform is beyond the power of any one session,
and that which remains of the present—l think there can-
not be the smallest doubt, if the Government find it their
duty to take this subject in hand, we are convinced that
the present Parliament is perfectly' competent to discuss
and decide it. (Laughter and cheers.) llav:ng arrived at
the conclusion that wo ought to deal with the question of
parliamentary representation, it was obvious to us that if we
did not revise the bill for which we were certainly respon-
sible as a Government, and one the greater part composed
of the same individuals of 1860, at least it formed for us
the natural starting point of inquiry. I will first of all
take the question of county representation. That question
is happily set, I will not say with intrinsic difficulties, but
with touch less jealousy and much less apprehension than
the question of representation in the boroughs. In the bill
of 1860 a proposal was made that we should adopt the bill
of my hon. friend the member for Surrey, to reduce the
occupation in counties from £3O to £lO. What we now
propose is a, modification of the plan of my hon. friend. My
statement is not precisely accurate in saying reduce ; but
it is sufficiently accurate for general purposes. We propose
to reduce the county franchise in counties from £5O t0.£14.
(Laughter, and cries of "Hear, hear.") This franchise will
not precisely correspond with the £5O franchise as it now
exists. .We leave the £5O franchise precisely as it now
stands. The occupation franchise which we propose be-
tween £5O of value and £l4 value will be an occupation
franchise, not of land alone, but of house or of house and
land. (Hear, hear.) That is the nature of the plan. There
is no great difficulty in estimating from the papers which
have been laid upon the table the amount of enfranchise-
ment which these changes will produce. It would corres-
pond as nearly as possible with the effect of a £l2 rating
franchise. if hon. gentlemen will refer to the volume of
statistics furnished with respect to the.£l2 rating franchise,
they will find that its effect, after making a proper deduc-
tion from those who do not claim, and for those who do not
occupy a sufficient tame, that it would add to the present
list—present number of county voters—about 171,000 per-
sons. Now, it maybe asked, why do we not go down to
the limit of £lO ? Ido not know. I certainly cannot say
that there is any danger as far as I am able to discern.
But, upon the whole, what we think is this, that by the
change which is now recommended wo shall obtain not
only a very large but a very independent addition to the
county constituency. At least we think this, that by
going from £l4 to £lO we should probably render it not
more but less independent. We do not anticipate the
existence of jealousy or apprehension with regard to this
considerable enfranchisement, bcause I think that it
will be held on all hands—l certainly entertain the opi-
nion strongly—that it must be viewed as a middle-class
enfranchisement, in the same sense, or rather more
strongly than that in which the present franchise is a
middle-class franchise. We have looked further into this
matter to see whether, under the present law, there were
interests of a strictly proprietary character connected with
tenure belonging to the county which was not provided
for. And wo found this state of the law with regard to
the county franchise derived from property within the
limits of boroughs—l mean cities. We found that a man
possessed of a 40s. freehold within a borough drew for the
40s. a county vote, but if he had a copyhold or a lease-
hold—which is rather common, but which is just as true a
proprietary interest as the 40s. freehold—he was not en-
titled to vote for it in the county. We therefore propose,
by a clause in the bill, to place the possessor of copyholds
and leaseholds within the limitd of the boroughs, and sub-
ject exactly to the same definitions which now govern the
right of voting beyond those limits. We propose to ex-
tend it to them, and so exactly, under the same conditions,
to come upon the county voting. 1 cannot estimate the
numerical effect of this. It would not bo possible to ob-
tain materials for the purpose, but it cannot be large. I
think it must be good as far as it goes—(hear, hear)—be-
cause it is a kind of representation thoroughly germane to
now to another topic,
f I allude to the subject of those franchises
the
allocrf
the
ee
only county
other constituency.
need,
a affecting
eti comeng
the county.
other than those of tenure and of occupation, which have
been called special franchises and bye franchises. [An 13 oN.
MEMBER —What franchise ? I Special franchises and bye
franchises. A number of these franchises were proposed
by Lord Aberdeen in the bill of 1854, and I think the last
was even extended in the bill of 1859. We have very care-
fully considered the motive of those franchises, and the
question that bears on their introduction. There is one of
these special or bye franchises which wo shall recommend
to the favourable consideration of Parliament—the savings-
bank franchise. As far as it goes, this franchise meets a
feeling prevalent in the country, and one to which we are
disposed to give way—that it is desirable to include within
the constituent body, by a method of spontaneous selection,
men who could not be included by any kind of franchise
founded on the old principle of occupation or tenure. It
was true, without doubt, that provident habits enable many
persons in early youth and in humble circumstances, not
having any holdings, to amass little stores by the time
they came of age, and thereby to entitle themselves to take
part in the choice of those who aro to govern the country.
A savings-bank franchise has this advantage—that it is not
attended with any complication of tenure or title. An in-
spection of his savings-bank book will tell you at any
moment whether a man is qualified as a savings-bank de-
positor. We, therefore, propose that all adult males whoa
are depositors of £5O or upwards in a savings-bank, and
have passed that deposit for two years, shall be entitled
Place
be registered for the place where they
clause
would the voters who would come in.residdeer.
be admitted by
be-
cause in towns the bulk of them
franchise,mber o
ipte per
other would reside would commonly be ouutsitdduenth e ttohNivsn
returns show that
I:wfhraolawcholseulds.
true that the recent
saavliengaapositors of £5O, and that
there are 94,000 adult male
their deposits for two years,
by other franchises ; and we
of these 87,000
have
recollect that a large number of these
b 0 Pithadmitted r. egsa_erbdnadutlevoi
thistbo
persons will be.
mind the deduction that is to be made
bear in
must also
effect of any provision for the eaten-
be apparent
from t
But then we
reueadn-Led
; aof the franchise when that franchise is accompanied
with the condition of making an annual claim, which is
inevitable in this case. If this franchise adds 10,000 or
15,000 to tho number of voters, I believe that it is the out-
side ; but it is good so far as it goes, and we believe it will
have a tendency gradually to extend itself. That completes
what I have to say as to the county franchise. The en-
franchisement of the counties will be a middle-class enfran-
chisement. It will notgive the working classes an increased
share share in the representation ;ou the contrary, 1
nish that share proportionally, because the representationconfined to
of the working classes, which ill counties wi
come to the
the county voters than it did before.
tolclearness if I first
borough franchise. It will
inhabitantsconduce
the smaller freeholders, will form a smalllleerwpisroportion of
of towns, for
call attention to the fact that the
are
to be dealt with in
the purpose of enfranchisement, are
aratoly rented building,
habit a separate house, or other
re Phe
of those men who in-
habit proper objects of the
four distinct classes. Ono consisso
and pay their rates;
thosethose are
who inhabit their own
householders. Next come
rated, but who do not pay
Reform Act of 1832, and
house, or who are separately
those I shall call ratepaying
h by their landlords, under
their own rates, arer Paidunder
local acts ; those I shall
Act, or
Thirdly, there is a
designate compound
regard to whom it appears that they
class of persons with
to enfranchisement, but whose
the Small Tenants'wh ic
in Jaw claim
have now
claim is rarely valid.l mean those who inhabit a part of
a house, but who do
not pay their own rates, and whose
separately
habitations are not rated. Lastly, there are
lodgers, proper-y
1 so called—that is, persons who hold and
inhabit rooms of their own, but who are inmates of the
house and family of another man. The two first classes
we think, are properly householders ; the two latter, we
think, must be regarded as lodgers, and dealt with as such