The Sun.
London, England, 1866-04-24 00:00:00

interests are fairly represented in and fairly consulted by
this house. (Hear, hear.) But the noble lord is afflicted
with a species of-I don't know whether I should call it
a terror or a feeling of no confidence, which I have
hardly ever witnessed in this house. He has no confi-
dence in the Government. Well, that I have very often
seen. I have seen him in a Government in which a ma-
jority of the house had no confidence ; but he has no con-
fidence in the house. First of all, although the Govern-
ment, through the noble lord the Prime Minister and through
the Claaneellor of the Exchequer, have given the most dis-
tinct promises upon the question of the bill for the re-
arrangement of seats, the noble lord has no confidence in
those promises. He has no confidence in the house. He
has no confidence in the people, because he objects to give
them the franchise intended to be given by this bill, and
he has a special terror of TAM may happen if the Franchise
Bill pass, and a Seats Bill should follow. The noble lord
must know that whatever be the re-arrangement of seats
it must lead to greater popular power in this house. What-
ever be the extension of the franchise it must lead to the
greater power of the people in this house. We all know
that a parliament that should be elected in favour of elec-
toral reform, and of a redistribution of seats, would baled
parliament of full authority in the country. It would
have power to extend the franchise still further, and to
accomplish the distribution of seats-(cheers from the
Opposition)-and to conduct all matters connected with
legislation. Therefore the noble lord, who
i has such extra-
ordinary anxiety about what may happen f this bill should
be carried and the other should fail, seems to me to be
about the most singular exhibition of political anxiety I
have ever seen. As to the speech of the noble lord, I
thought everything true was not important, and everything
in the least degree important was not true-(oh, oh, from
the Opposition.) But there is one thing which is important,
and that is the opposition of the noble lord to this bill, and
I hope that ho and his colleagues in opposing this resolution
will forgive me if I say that it is a painful, and more than
that, it is a perilous thing, when the heirs of two of the
most ancient-(cheers and counter-cheers)-and
.most.
wealthy, and most powerful houses of the English nobility
oppose themselves to this moderate and just bill-(Oppo-
sition cheers)-and set themselves, by a coalition in this
house, to drive Earl Russell from power - (laughter and
cheers)-for this, and this only, offence, that he has wielded
the authority of his great office to extend, in what I main-
tain to be a moderate and Conservati7e degree, the fran-
chise of his countrymen. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord the
member for Chester (Earl Grosvenor) blamed the Govern-
ment because they took advice from this end of the house,
and did not confine themselves to the advice of powerful
persons belonging to the Whig party. 1 should think that
a measure supported by the house of Bedford and by the
house of Devonshire, that has among its supporters the
Howards and Sutherlands, and the Duke of Somerset and
the Duke of Argyll, and that has the support of the Earl
of Clarendon and of Lord Granville, and of Lord Stanley,
the Aestmaster General (cheers and laughter), and of the
right hon. gentleman the Home Secretary-(hear)-I think
that a measure supported by the names and powers I have
mentioned, cannot be said to be introduced by the House
without some consultation with the Whig party. (Cheers.)
If the noble lord the member forKing'sLynnwill allow-me
in a perfectly friendly manner to give him a little friendly
advice I would give him it in one sentence-that the course
he is taking is a course that tends to drive away impor-
tant persons of the Whig party from the Liberal party in
this country-(hear, hear)-and if this course should
suc-
ceed in dissevering the most intelligent of the Whig nobility
from the great popular party in this country, and if the
noble lord should succeed in putting all the dukes and
nobles on ono side and all the popular party on the other
in this house-(hear, hear)-if the noble lord knows any-
thing of history ho will know this, that when a great
popular party is fighting for itself against the nobles of the
country, whatever their virtues, and whatever their power,
you may rely upon it that the popular party will win, and
that the nobles will go to the wall. (Hear, hear.) But the
noble lord and many hon. members during this debate have
referred to a supposed influence which I have had as to the
mode this question has been brought before Parliament.
Seven years ago, just when the Government of Lord
Derby was thrown out, in an incidental conversation with
Lord Russell, I suggested to him that when this question
should be brought before us the proper course would be to
introduce a Franchise Bill by itself. (Cheers from the
Opposition.) From the year 1860 until this hour I have
Only had one interview, and that a very short interview,
of a political character, with Lord Russell ; and until the
noble lord mentioned the matter at the meeting of his sup-
porters in Downing-street I was totally ignorant of the
fact that the course of the Government in this matter had
been in any degree influenced by anything I-had said. It
was at a meeting at Rochdale in January that I advised
not only the Government to take this course, but I advised
all persons in favour of reform throughout the kingdom to
support that course if it should be taken by the Govern-
ment. I will tell the house, with the most complete can-
dour and fairness, what are the reasons that induced me to
give that advice. I will assume during my observations
that the house is in favour of reform-I know that is a
stretch of imagination-(laughter)-though I regret to come
to that conchision-hut as I am speaking not only to gen-
tlemen in this house but to some gentlemen outside, I shall
treat the question as if the house was in favour of some
honest measure of reform, though there may be a
difference as to its extent. When I suggested to Lord
Russell, six years ago, to bring in a Franchise Bill, he said
the Opposition willimako use of that plan of action to op-
pose the Government altogether ; they will submit a reso-
lution. to the house, in all probability, not to support the
measure until they know all that the Government proposes.
(Cheers from the Opposition.) The noble lord know per-
fectly well the tactics of hon. gentlemen opposite. But
notwithstanding that knowledge, I presume he felt it his
duty to submit a Franchise Bill by itself. If you look back
to the year 1848, you will find that Mr. Hume proposed ca
resolution to the house on the subject of reform, yo
u
come if
come down to the time of the motion of the hon. member
for Leeds (Mr. Baines) last year, you will see that the great
question all along has been, so far as it was a great popular
question, more one of the franchise than of the redistribu-
tion of seats. I assert, without any fear of contradiction,
that the pledges of the Government were not so much
pledges to the working classes as pledges to the working
classes who are excluded from the franchise-(" Oh, oh,"
from the Opposition), and who desire at some early day to
be admitted to this right. I agree with the hon. member
for Westminster (Mr. Mill) in this, and I think every mem-
ber of the house will agree to this, that, apart from all effect
which we may hope to produce in the composition of this
house
by a measure of Parliamentary reform, it is necessary
that there should be an extension of the franchise so far
that, throughout this country, the working classes should
not feel themselves excluded from a share in the delibera-
tions of Parliament. What I want is to induce a sense of
justice among the great class now labouring under the idea
that they are unjustly excluded from a share in the fran-
chise, although the passing of this Franchise Bill should
not change the seat of a single member in this house, and
although the distribution of seats were now as equal as it
Could be made, and though no measure of reform were ne-
cessary, except as to the question of the franchise. The house
will see that there is essential difference between the two
questions. Thequestion of the franchise affects a special por-
tion of the population, while the question of redistribution
ofc seatsss
is one that interests the highest class, the middle
a
and, to a certain extent all the working class. But
this is a class question, and has' never been impressed upon
the house with so muchforeeear)nd resolution as the question
ha
of the franchise. (Hear, When you come to con-
sider the question of seats, an h'on. gentleman who sits on
the opposite side of the house
(Mr.
ewmembersdegateably have and who
that the
is very enthusiastic as to the numberN
of
counties ought to send to Parliament, will probably
something to say on this subject. No doubte populous
counties ought to receive more members. So oughtoui o"
the
largest boroughs, and new boroughs ought to be created.
That is necessary for fair representation, but it is not
necessary for any special or particular class. (Hear, hear.)
The question of the extension of the franchise comes before
the house with a claim far more pressing, I will not say
far more righteous, but far more urgent, than any change
in the distribution of seats. (Hear.) Then there is a reason
that any member of the Goverment will see at once, and I
as a spectator venture to express the opinion that the ques-
tion 48 Proposed by the Government is very much more
simple than it would be if a larger measure were proposed,
''ther°.'we're coupled with it another great measure. We
know Vert wellt-or, at all events, we think we know-
£lo,tht whether
to .0, to 48 be desirable to reduce the franchise to
may be the redistribution t°
44,
it does not ma
undertake to devise of seats. (No, no.) But I
matter a straw what.l
member for Ic.intailscherne, so that the noble lord the
Buckinghamshire mitZtan and the right hon. member for
kingdom, and yet, by wtr: a vote to every man in the
be made that the represeutatr would be infinitely worse
h an arrangement might
tland less complete thanit is at7o:3 . (Loud cheers
I,rnoment
from the Opposition.) When
the question of the franchise your have thBenssedand settled
ands and your under-
standings are perfectly free for the
pnnbtlhic by givin-
e good effect in
seats, and if you think to juggle tPhuerPc'se?f arranging the
people with Par-
franchise with one hand, and preventi e the
itistifiesteti-iesgt times.
another way you would be dissatisfying theg
la men t even more than they were dissatisfreicti
I think there is another reason which
meet in the coureo they have taken. They did not deelern-
combine the opponents of various branches of the refroert°
question in opposition to the extension of the franchise,
fairly that a bill which proposes to
They thought very
charge the dierosition of 10, 20, 30, 40, it may be 50 seats,
question of great difficulty. Though
is one invol-eing a
such a measure may involve the exclusion of some members
from this house the government may fairly ask the aid of
the members for small boroughs to do justice to tbe excluded
class, and to extend the franchise fairly and moderately
among the people. And I think the government made no
mistake, because among those of whom I have heard as
likely to vote for the amendment of the noble lord the mem_
ber for Chester, I have not heard the name of any member,
with one exception, for a small borough which is likely
to be disfranchised by the bill which the Government are
prepared to lay upon the table of the house. (Hear-)
Therefore the members of the small boroughs, wheresoever
they. sit on this side of the house, have not shown any hos-
tthty to the extension of the franchise, whatever may be j