The Sun.
London, England, 1832-04-14 00:00:00

EXPRESS

EDITION.

, : A. It LIAM .1E -IN T.

HOUSE OF LORDS,
Coutinuedfrom the Fourth Page.

(Lord LYNDHURST'S Speech continued from our

fourth page.)
of Commons. This was visionary and impracticable.
Make the House of Commons independent, and immediately
afterwards there was an end to the other branches of the
.Legislature. Never in any age, nor in a country had such
w II a form ever xisted. Experiments bad been made, but failed.
The Noble Lord who spoke in last night's debate, as to
the representative body, had asked, how could this be con-
sidered as a representative Government ? The answer was
that in the sense in which he considered it, it
never was a Representative Government, that it
was only a Representative Government in the sense
in which it now stood. I do not, my Lords,
enter into that part of the Bill which relates to the
i extensive disfranchisement, because, my Lords, that
1 is not the main objection I have to urge against it.
--(Hear, hear.) The objection I have to urge against it
and which always has been one of great weight in my mind,
that if the Bill pass into a law, the composition of the
House of Commons would be such as to rendes it impos-
sible that the House of Commons could continue.
—(Hear, hear, hear.) My Noble and Learned Friend,
nay Lords, has taken a proper view of this case,
I shall direct your attention to one or two of the points
in the present Bill. There were to be sixty-four
Metnbera given to the great towns, and they are to be
returned by a constituency which is provided by
the . Bill. Now it apppears to me, my Lords,
impossible that any person who has lived in the
world, and who has looked at all into the manners
and habits of the time, could not see that this would lead
to the greatest democracy in the House of of Commons
From whom are the sixty-four Members to be taken ?
From the conservative class. The consequence, therefore
would be the taking of 120 Members from the conserva-
tive side to that of the extreme democracy. What
will be the effect of such an infusion of democracy in
the House of Commons ? The Right Reverend Prelate,
Who had spoken with much eloquence on a former
night, had pointed out the necessity of their measures
as connected with Ireland and also with Scotland. The
three were distinct parte, but joined together as respected
the present measures. With respect to Ireland, two
thirds of the representation would be returned by the Ca-
tholics. And I ask whether any one so retired
by the Catholics would not add to the extreme
democratic influence of the House of Commons ?
a--(Hear, hear, hear.) If such a House was tolerated,
it would be impossible for the crown to sustain itself
against it, even by the sword, as the House of Com-
/none would have the power of disbanding the army. As a
Proof thist, I beg of you to look at what took place in the
time of Cromwell, the man to whom Europe bowed, who
had acquired the mastery of the seas, who reduced Ireland
to subjection—that man found the House of Commons
0° unmanageable for him.---(Loud Cheering.)—
It might be said that their Lordships, by rejecting this Bill,
would be brought into collision with the House of Com-
40ne. He denied it however; it was altogether irrational.
The
House of Lords was as independent in its legislation as
'°v House of Commons. The same authority which the
'4onmons had to pass that Bill and send it to that House
1 second time, they had to reject. it. This Bill was not a
1.1 6141 measure. The organs of the movement party, both
i° and out of Parliament declared it should not be final.
'le would say that if this Bill passed through this stage
nr",, be knew enough of that House to be certain
of the result. Nothing could be vented from its becoin-
'lll in all its efficiency a part of the law of the land.
el°,°ketl to this consummation with the utmost appre-
- h-eubft end alarm, not for his own sake, for he had but
little at issue in' the contest, but on account of
the interest l in the country, and the
1 ~._be . felt
Preservation of its institutions on which its
greatest happiness chiefly depended. The die was not
Yet cast —the destinies of the country were in their hands—
they had power to avert a calamity. He conjured them
to lay aside all temporising policy which on a subject of
f this kind was destructive, and by their vote against its
going into Committee, to avert the danger that me-
12aeed the Constitution and liberties of the counntry.—
• The Noble and Learned Lord Reck:two amidst loud cheers
Sod loud and general cries of Question !
Earl GREY then rose and said, my Lords, under
the circumstances of this late hour, it is with the
greatest reluetsnce that I presume again to press my-
'elf upon your Lordships' notice. Indeed, my Lords,
however anxious I might to be take notice of many
tiling' that have passed in the debates on these nights,
titY strength fails me, and I (Lord that I am un-
equal to the task. But, my s, it is irnpos-
Possible for me to remain entirely silent,
itt'd not to do justice as far as I am able to the
dvfett_v which the Government has pursued, and to
do °d myself against the suspicions and impute-
Lord ,
.oast upon me, and endeavour to assure your
not be attended
first of all, that the success of this Bill will
Lord: attended with the consequences which many Noble
if the have so confidently asserted ; and next, that
„,. Y could have believed it likely to produce these
illrnuencee that it never would have been sanctioned
17 feheis, A.lajests 'el Ministers. The first point to which
whi"! necessary to address myself, is the charge
b `., I
a thought bad been successfully repelled
I MY Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack ;
but which has been again advanced with some ad -
dwibtinonal statements by the Noble and Learned Lord
nileds pok e last that the agitation which had pre-
the subject of Parliamentary Reform
il,i.ss,h„ollry°_::o be ascribed to the misconduct of Government.
a 7 -,',°- td
I have before stated to you, that when at
I kiin._':_tance from town and contemplating, God
in:
powerlnothing . less than the idea of coming to
tfor that melt Seelng the progress which the desire
saw on my saurrriewarsthmataking in the country—when I
many persons who had for-
mtbeertliyundiffteedreidu in opinion as to the expediency of Reform
Reform, I did feel that it opinion of the expediency of
d it could no longer be delayed, and I
declared it on the
pfinrsbtlinaywonafthse sessiono
t in Oct. IhB3o.b.The
feeling of the
the present state of the Houseonogf Commonsont e s' jhecatd
become. so untenable, that Reform must be
had in order to avert those evils which a continued
perseverence in denying it would unquestionably n till
I declared this my opinion to the Administratione
i
then in existence, and which he had no in-
tention whatever to subvert, and 4 advised them to
adopt that measure of reform, which, if too long delayed,
would be forced on them to a much greater extent.
That this was the state of the public mind there could be
no doubt, from the speech which had been addressed to
him by a Noble Lord at the time, demanding what were
the principles and professions upon which the Adminis-
tration were to act. Among those, one was a provision
to be allowed to introduce a Reform in Parliament, and the
Noble Earl then called upon us for the introduction
uolur a measure which was equally necessary for
w safety, and for the safety of our country.
thet own
the impression on the Noble Earl's mind at that
time. toes it not prove that there had been produced an
effect on Public opinion, that there was a general
opinion, in short, in favour of the measure which
existed before Ministers came in to power, and in conse-
quenceof
which they were in that Noble Lord's opinion
lled on
. iTeheen ohtloe bring in for their own safety and their
eountr
Y;ls safety, to propose some measure without delay.
Earl proceeded to say, that it had
solute) n
niversally acknowledged, that it was ab-
for,. Y 'llieeeedaiadary to bring in some plan of Re-
volution, aria not mean to assert that the French re-
i give
an
addit, subsequent revolution of Belgium did not
I feeling for Reform
excitement to men's minds ; but the
1830, for
evrna was strong in this country before July,
Manchester UnniealgY in that year the Birmingham and
case, mini.tersons had been formed. Such being the
acting
upon e to the best of their ability, and
they had in the best means of information which
Bin
end, their power, brought in the present
the peopiav,Zr7g so to frame' it as to satisfy the wishes of
of the country. Immediately
the same time, preserve the institutions
was received
put
upon its promulgation the Bill
completely put tab satisfaction by the country, and
injurious saa,ure4 n end to those extravagant and
pual Parliantenta°f .Reform,—Universal Suffrage, An-
t tithes
of tii,3
lif,innhgdicieNs'soft.,ei by Ballot, which at all
the meaasre ww,
sues had always opposed. So far
shown that in In , and lie trusted be had
piste?' were justified it forward his Msjesty's
ben.d with tha
t
self Mi-
sorry that this discussion hand not theeen event.ndcte
freedom from Personality
' of which he
was
e had him-
, followed. Indeed the greater "P" that it would be
consisted of attacks upon dihart of the debate had
been attacked for the inconsisteern:; Peers, some had
In the matter, and others
,for
s theof their conduct
anu
travagance of their views, wnd ex-
ome he believe ildness a d
him -