The Sun.
London, England, 1832-05-22 00:00:00

into those who were opposed to it, and he bad scare Ye
found one. There was no reaction, and he should !,'
glad now to hear any man assert in that House that thy'
was. The whole people were in favour of Reform, ae,
that showed a gre,tt change in the opinion of the countt:,
Was that the result of the ni;srit a of the last forty year.
Did it arise from the pressure of taxation ? Was it cans,
by that change of the currency which hail at once double
the amount of the taxes paid by the industrious classes
though it did nut come into full operation till 182iY
Whether arising from these or other causes, there was 110,
general feeling in favour of Reform, and when th it B
which had been so well fought in that House became tie
law, he did not &mist that the Members who had sto
by it and done their duty, would receive what they were
well entitled to—the thanks of the country.—(Hear.)
Colonel LINDSAY wished to remind the House that
this Bill was not a restoration, it was not a correction t
abuses, it was a complete new constitution—an entice
change. He would show this he the Learned Lord's owe
speech. He said, on bringing in the Bill, that no shred
or rag, no jot or tittle of the old abomination would I,e
suffered to remain. The Learned Lord's speech was a
good one, but the sentiments were those of Jack Cade.
" Away, burn all the records of the realm ; my wouth
shall be the Parliament of England." Such, too, were
the sentiments of the Learned Lord ; his were precisely
the sentiments of Jack Cade. The Learned Lord argued
that a great change was necessary, and he said, if he un-
derstood the Learned Lord right, that by greatly exteud
ing the franchise, the people would be satisfied, and the
means of their prosperity provided. But in Ireland the
franchise was much more extensive than it had ever beet:
in Scotland, and he had yet to learn that the people
of that country were either satisfied or prosperous.
He had always understood that they were discontented
and miserable. Other causes were assigned for thi
but certainly the extent of the representation had
not saved Ireland from being more wretched than
Scotland. Turning to England, he begged leave t
ask whether the advantages possessed by this country
were so great, that Scotland ought to be anxious
to change her own institutions for those of Eng-
land? He saw no such difference in the prosperity of the
two countries. Upon the whole, it appeared to him that
they were about to effect a complete change iu all the in-
stitutions of the country; and he could not but think that
evil consequences would result. The principles of the
Bill were admitted; but he had a right to call upon them
to apply those principles impartially. Now let them look
at the respective claims of the two countries. The popu-
lation of England and Wales, in 1821, was 11,978,875.
That of Scotland amounted to 2,093,456. The popula-
tion of S: otland, with reference to that of England, was
therefore above one-sixth. The revenue of England was
40,910,2801. ; that of Scotland, 5,113,3531.—ab0ut the
proportion of one-eighth. On what principle could they
therefore deny to Scotland her fair proportion of Mem-
bers ? He had a right to demand for Scotland a number of
Members proportionate to the number of Members returned
for England. In doing so, he was asking but tor bare
justice, and he hoped that Ministers would give to the
suggestion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh-
shire that consideration of which he thought it worthy.
Mr. ANDREW JOHNSTON considered the conduct
of the people of Scotland most exemplary. They were a
people who had wrenched from a King and Legislature
their rights and freedom. The Church Government was
different to that of England, but it was placed on a more
efficient and satisfactory footing.—(Hear, hear.) Their
institutions were of an excellent description, founded on
the sentiments of public opinion ; but instead of owing
this to the legislature, as had been stated, they had found
the legislature always ready to assist the Prince in his ef-
forts to establish despotism, as they had assisted one of
their last Princes, and would have proceeded but for the
determined resistance of the people of Scotland. When
had the Scotch Peers and Members generally been
found but swelling the ranks of Ministerial majo
rities ? The counties were chiefly under the nomina-
tion of Nables and Gentlemen of large property and in-
fluence, and where they were large they generally adopted
the wise and prudent plan of voting for the Ministerial
candidate. His Gallant Friend opposite was, of course,
an exception, for he, it was well known, was chosen ex-
pressly an opponent of Ministers.—(Hear.) Ile wished
to point out the deplorable condition of the people of Scot-
land, in order to show bow mere an act of justice was
that measure now under the consideration of the English
Parliament. The whole system of representation hitherto
had been notoriously venal. There were abundance of
the lower places in the Customs and the Excise which
were very acceptable to his friends in the North.—(Hear,
hear.) This system of corruption ought now to be put a
stop to; it was time that his native land should be no
longer degraded by such a foul and abominable traffic as
was now carried on.—(Cheers.) With regard to the
extent of the franchise, let that House extend as far and
as wide as they pleased, provided they equally ex-
tended the means of giving to the people a mural educa-
tion, so as to enable them to keep pace with their increase
of political power.—(Cheers.)
Mr. HOPE did not deny the necessity of a change in
the representation of Scotland ; but he denied the neces-
sity of so sweeping a measure, to the consequences of
which lie could not look without the greatest anxiety and
alarm.

Sir GEORGE WARRENDER considered it most
desirable the measure should be a final one, but as that
was not to be expected, unless it was so framed as to
afford general satisfaction, he was glad to bear from the
Learned Lord that it was his intention to extend the 101.
franchise in the msnner he had stated.
Lord LOUGHBOROUGH found, by one of the
clauses of the Act of Union, that no alteration should be
made in public rights contrary to the terms of that Act,
but that private rights might be altered by the Parliament
of the United Kingdom. Now, surely no Hon. Member
on the Bench opposite would venture to assert that the
alteration of the representation of the kingdom of Scotland
was the alteration of a private right; and it it was not,
then there was no authority, under the terms of the Act
of Union, for the alteration now proposed. He should
not offer any further opposition to it, except by entering
his solemn protest against the Bill, as at once unconstitu-
tional and unnecessary. He should trust to the gene-
rosity of the Noble and Learned Lord to allow of such
alterations and amendments in this Bill as might be found
requisite.
Mr. C. FERGUSSON said that the introduction of the
101. vote was such a revolution in the representative
system of Scotland, that he had for a time hesitated to
adopt it. But, when he found that a right of voting was
to be given to the tenantry of the country, he thought it
but fair and equitable that the holders of the houses in bo-
roughs should be entitled to votes. He had, however, one
objection to the Bill. He thought the lauded interest had
not been sufficiently attended to. The proportion between
the representatives of boroughs and counties had not been
properly preserved. The Bill was absolutely necessary,
for he was thoroughly convinced that the people of Scot-
land never would have been satisfied with their present
system of representation when they beheld the representa-
tion of England purified and rendered popular. He ob-
jected to the introductio❑ of lower votes into the county
constituency, and that had been done in the present case
by the mode in which Greenock and Port Glasgow were
provided for. Greenock was the only place kept as a bo-
rough, while the voters of Port Glasgow were thrown
into the county constituency. Two evils resulted from
this. Iu the first place, the franchise of the town voters
was narrowed ; and in the next, the county voters were
inundated by men who had not similar interests and
opinions with their own.

Mr. C. DUNDAS protested against the principle of
this 8111, which he thought would be very destructive to
the true interests of Scotland, but should content himself
with entering his protest against the Bill, as he could not
offer it a more effectual opposition.
Sir C. FORBES maintained that no case bad been
made out to show the necessity for such an extensive Re-
form as that which was now proposed. He should shun
his consistent opposition to the measure by dividing the
house upon it. He had no objection to the Borough
Reform; but he had strong objections to the other parts
of it.

Mr. HUME was glad that his Hon. Friend had at last
come round to support the Borough Reform in Scotland ;
and he thought that in another month it was probable the
Hon. Baronet would support the whole of the Bib. Hr
hoped that this measure would be of advantage to the
whole people of Scotland, and he believed it would be so.
Sir G. MURRAY hoped that the Hon. Baronet would
give him his support o❑ the question of giving a greater
number of Members to the Scotch counties. He bud
never stood here as the uncompromising enemy of Reform.
All he desired was caution and moderatio❑ in introducing
the Reform that might be found to be required. He
thought that the Reform Bills had been inconvenient!)
divided, and that the present Bill had, in consequence,
done much injustice to Scotland. He was of opinion that
with an united Legislature, such as now existed, vv
ought to legislate in the same manner for all the parts of
the United Kingdom.—(Hear, near ) Upon this prin-
ciple he thought that Scotland and Ireland ought to have
their due share of the seats that had b. en rindered dis-
posable by the disfranchisement of close arid nomination
boroughs. The number of disfranchised boroughs was
144. Of these, England was to have 131, while only
eight were reserved fur Scotland, and but five for Ire-
land. In respect of wealth, population, industry, and