The Sun.
London, England, 1835-02-20 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEB. 19, 1825.
THE ELECTION OF SPEAKER.
Lord F. EGERTON'S Speech concluded from our First
Edition yesterday, and which we gave in our Express Edition
last night :—From this great occasion of the meeting of the
House, it becomes us to approach the election of a Speaker
with calm deliberation, and also one who, on account of his
tried ability and experience, is most adapted to conduct the bu-
siness of the House with that judgment and discretion with
which it has been filled.—( Hear, hear.) I do regret that it
has become imperative on me to address ) ou on this ques-
tion, or that it should not meet with that unanimity
which I think it so well deserves. I do regret, for my own
part, that these circumstances should be likely to place us in
•Dposition to many Hon. Gentleman with whom I have been
t i terms of the greatest intimacy, and whom I know, esteem,
and regard so much, not as I conceive on one of those ques-
tions of great political interest, or of great political
discussion, but one on which, I lament to think, that their ener-
gies should be lavished and abused, and that it may thereby
tend to the collision of parties for whom I entertain marked
feelings of friendship and respect.—( Hear, hear.) At the
same time, I do not think that I shall have to hear
any cf those motions which imply opposition against the
motion which I have the honour to submit to the House,
founded on any of these charges of notorious absurdity
which have found their way into circulation in other quarters,
and which, for the last few days, have been before the atten-
tion of the public. I do not think that I shall meet with
any of those absurd calumnies which have found their
way into notice from publications such as the " Mirror of
Faihion," and some others which I do not feel myself
called upon to name—some of those publications,
which gain their mysterious information by tracking out
scenes of private life, and reducing them to those
ourposes which they understand so well. I do not think that
I shall have to contradict any of those unfounded imputations,
or that the opposition which will be raised against my Right
Honourable Friend will place its claims on such a source,
but on the contrary that the opposition is tobe rested on a great
public principle—(Tremendous cheering from the opposition
benches.) I shall content myself by resting his elaims on the
good sense of this House, and on the known integrity, talent,
and courtesy with which he has conducted its business hitherto.
The Noble Lord whom I believe I may salute as the intended
leader of this House—(Loud cheers from the opposition)
whether self-elected---( Reiterated cheers from the Ministerial
Benches)—or whether enlisted under the banners of
the Opposition—amid the clash of weapons, and party
strife, I do not know ; but it appears he is to be
the champion of the party over whom one shout alone predo-
minates, decidedly the shout of a populace, which as yet has
been so obscared, that I am left to conjecture about its origin ; but
which has been promulgated on the hustings to admiring con-
stituents—the principle of condemnation without trial.—
( Cheers from the Ministerial Benches, re-echoed by the Oppo-
sition.) If this be the principi6 which is to flash conviction on
the doubting, to fix the waverer, aml to reinstate the phalanx
which by various accidents has been somewhat disbanded,
I trust those Hon. Gentlemen who support ilmt principle
will be able to speak to this House, and to carry that prin.:loe
into effect without violation of their own consistency, and within
the spirit of the principle which on the last occasion they
raised very eloquent voices-to combat and repudiate ; namely,
to repudiate political considerations, and the estimation of poli-
tical opinions on the individual who was to be called to the
chair ; but to set aside all other considerations of talent, fitness,
ability, experience, and even of what may be new to the ear
of some gentlemen, considerations of public utility. Before I
conclude the observations I have taken the liberty of address-
ing to the House upon the motion which I am to make, I mat
beg to express my confidence that I have avoided any expression
which may appear to be clothed with disrespect to any Gen-
tleman who has been named by public report as a candidate
for the office. With regard to the Hon. Gentleman who
is likely, as we understand, to be proposed to this House as
Speaker, certainly, whatever may be the opinion entertained
by this House, or by his frieuds, he is, at least, so
far superior to me in every respect, and commands the
deference of this House in such a manner, that it would
very ill become me ever to question his fitness for that
office in any one particular ; and I beg to express
to him that honest feeling of' respect and deference
which I will not say he himself might expect, but the nicest
sensibility of his friends. may consider to be due. I should
have been more content, however, if a task so honour-
able and so completely consonant with my feelings, that of
proposing my Right Honourable Friend for the Chair,
had fallen into worthier, and into hands perhaps more exempt
from the suspicion of private partiality. I have the satisfaction
however of knowing that my execution of this duty, however
imperfect, or however unsatisfactory it may have been to my-
self, will not be unsatisfactory to a large majority of a great
constituency that has sent me here.—( Hear, hear, hear.)
At all events, I am satisfied that if the occasion ever arrive,
on which I shall have to answer at the bar of offended public
opinion for any errors in judgment or feeling, or any incapacity,
I trust that this will be the first occasion and the last on which
those who blame me will fix.—( Hear, hear.) I beg to con-
clude with moving that the Right Honourable Sir Charles
Manners Sutton do take the Chair.—( Loud cheers.)
Sir CHARLES BURRELL then rose and said--I do not
hesitate to offer myself as the seconder of the motion which
has been proposed ; but I should hesitate to detain the House
with a lengthened speech, after the very eloquent one of the
Noble Lora. Though differing, in some respects with the
Right Hon. Gentleman whom he has proposed, I beg to ex-
press my conviction of his superiority over every other Member
of this House to become its Chairman, without meaning to
disparage any one, or that other Right Hon. Gentleman, for
whom I entertain the highest respect. What I am about to
do I do from firm persuasion. i had the honour to second his
nomination in the year 1817, and from that time until the present
I have noticed his candour, his efficiency, dud his impartiality.
—( Hear.) With these feelings I should do injVafice to him,
avid to my own character, if I satisfied myself wiiLi giving
a silent vote on this occason.—( Hear, hear.) 'f!le
House, then, will be justified in supporting this motion.
as it was justified in electing him before, by the attention,
ability, and efficiency which the Right Hon. Gentleman has
displayed. Under such circumstances, I trust the House will
reflect before they decide, and the Noble Lord has rightly
observed, that we are assembled under very peculiar
circumstances. But under any circumstances, we want a man
whose knowledge and talent will assist us in the business of
the House, and no man can be more fitted for the Chair, and
to expedite the business than one who has had so much practice,
and before whom no gentleman, however excellent his cha-
racter, or however fair his pretensions, can on that account be
preferred. I therefore most cordially assent to the motion of
the Noble Lord, and will not detain the House longer, feeling
that any thing I could add would be superfluous.
Mr. DEN IS ON then rose. He said, I can assure the
House that it is with great reluctance I rise to trespass upon
its attention, and nothing but an imperious sense of duty could
induce me to come forward at the present important crisis—at
a period in which the public mind is so much excited, and
when the eyes, not only of this country and of Europe, but of
the whole civilized world, are directed to our proceedings. In
a great part of what has fallen ffom the Noble Lord,
( Sandon) whose appearance in this House I am happy
to observe, I fully concur, nor do I object to much that
has been expressed by the Hon. Baronet who seconded the
motion, in all they have stated respecting the qualities of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Cambridge, respect-
ing all the virtues, of his private character, and respecting
the dignified manner in which he demeaned himself while
in the Chair of this House.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. )
But this is not a Question of personal character—it is
one in which a great public principle is involved—( Cheers
and laughter from the Ministerial side)—and however the
Noble Lord may sneer at public principle, I trust the House
will not despise it. The Noble Lord has thrown more aspe-
rity into the debate than in my opinion is required ; and
although he has leaped hiss light courser beyond bound,
I will not now imitate his example. It is, I repeat, on the
assertion of a great public principle that I rise to trespass on
the attention of the House, called upon, as it now is, to decide
upon a question in which the interests of thousands are in-
volved. His Majesty, in the exercise of his undoubted
right, dissolved i.he last Parliament ; the people responded
to the call, and have returned a majority of representatives
steadily attached to the great principles of the Reform Bill.—
( Cheers.) With all respe,:q for the talents and character of
the Right Hon. the Member fo,- the University of Cambridge,
I think it incumbent on' this House that a Gentleman be placed
in the chair, the highest situation to wlzich any Commoner can
aspire—the representative of the greatezt assemblage in the
Universe should be assimilated in principle to the majority of
the members over whom he presides, "as coming events cast
their shadows before." We must, in deciding this question,
take into consideration the measures which the Right
Honourable Baronet at the head of his Majesty's Govern-
ment, proposes to bring before the House. In the
discussion of Corporation Reform—the Bill for the
relief of the Dissenters—the motion of the Hon. Member
for St. Albans, and of that crying of all grievances, the state
of the Irish Church—in the discussion as to the dismissal of
the Melbourne Administration unheard and without a trial—
without that trial which the Right Hon. Baronet and his
friends around him are so sedulous in demanding, foi getting
the principle of " do as you wish to be done by"—in the debate
which must take place on the unprecedented assumption of the
reins of Government, for three weeks, by one individual, who
however high in station or renowned for his military achieve-
ments abroad, should have been deterred from such a hazard-
ous undertaking—in all these discussions, it will be incumbent
on the House to have a gentleman in the Chair, who acting with
impartiality and dignity will agree with the majority of the
House. But a time may arrive when a difference of opinion
with the other House may take place. In such an emergency
it would be requisite to have a gentleman in the chair whose
sentiments will be perfectly identified with the principles of
the Reform Bill. In rising to propose the Right Hon. the
Member for Edinburgh, as he is present, I cannot say all I
think respecting him, but this I must say, that there is
no gentleman, in my opinion, of all those whom I have
the honour to see around me, more qualified than he is
to fill thpr,.-whether I regard the uniform consis-
tency of his Tscareietrihaiacter—his amiable manners--his long
Parliamesttretlar his profound legal knowledge,
comblAnutas .110,14 mood . temper with a clear head,
as evitilefin man/ la end trying debates, professing, too,
the greataciplse• o leform Bill—with such opinions
enter
I flattetysolf that a Ai . entlemen that I have now the
honour to address whp. • • •orted the Reform Bill, or who
on tlii• hustings ay. ••, • • themselves supporters of it,
not orfri in letter, hut' irr-spirit, I hope that all such
will support; Pr motion with which I shall conclude,
viz., to pizt,...ita.`tsaid before, into the first station to
which a Commoner can aspire, the representative of the
greatest assembly in the universe, the Right Hon. James

Abercromby. The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst
loud cheering.
Mr. ORDE then rose to second the nomination which had
be en made. He said, it is with great reluctance that I now
trespass upon the time of the House, but I trust that the oc-
casion will be my apology.—( Cheers.) I feel a deeper de-
gree of regret when I have to oppose the election of a gentle-
man whose public services I must acknowledge.—( Great cheer-
ing.) lam as willing as any one to acknowledge those
services, but I think that this is an occasion when private opinion
must give way to public duty. The choice of a Speaker is not
a mere local question, as the Noble. Lord has said. The
question is one looked at by all persons, not only of this
country, but of others—it is not looked at as a question
of a personal nature, but very justly as the proof of
what the Parliament really is.—( Cheers.) The question most
frequently asked is, If the Right Hon. Gentleman was fitted
to fill the situation of Speaker in the last Parliament„ why is
he not now—what has rendered him unfit to preside over the
present one ? Into those questions I will not follow the Noble
Lord—they have been disposed of by my Honour-
able Friend, who has proposed the Amendment.—( Cheers. )
The only answer to that I can give is, that the times have
changed—( Cheers)—the times and circumstances have totally
changed since the election of the Right Hon. Gentleman. It
was generally understood then, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had retired; he had had his retiring pension fixed—( Cheers)
—so that there can be no parallel drawn between the
present circumstances and those which actuated the Members
of the last Parliament. Then, the question was not
a test of the state of political parties, as it is now.—( Great
cheering.) The whole country now looks at the present ques-
tion as one which will decide the question to which their
whole attention is directed.—( Cheers.) His Majesty, who was
advised to appeal to the sense of the people and the country,
will be very much dissatisfied if the reply to that appeal should
be—the very first vote of this House is to place in the Chair
one whose opinions are not in accordance with the opinions of
of the great majority of the House. lam obliged to oppose
the election of the late Speaker on these grounds—be would
not be the representative of the House—would not be the real
organ of the House. My lion. Friend, whose nomination I
am about to second, has this qualification, that he will in
reality be the organ of the House, his opinions being in ac-
cordance with those of the majority of the House.—( Great
cheering.) His election will be received by the country as the
triumph, not of a party, but of a great public principle.
(Great cheering.) Such are the grounds upon which I sup-
port the nomination of the Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh
to fill the Chair of this House. It is with great pleasure that
I second the nomination of the Right Hon. James Abercromby
to the Chair of this House:—( Great cheering: ).

Sir C. M. SUTTON then rose.—He said he was aware
that he owed an apology—an excuse to the House—for in-
truding himself upon them. He was so circumstanced that
the House, after hearing what he had to say, must form their
own judgment. He would not, for he could not, say one
word in disparagement of the qualifications of the Right
Honourable Gentleman, the Member for the city of
Edinburgh. He had waited writhing under all the charges
that had been heaped upon him. Knowing that the proper
place to give an answer to the charges was the floor of that
House—( Cheers)—lie trusted the House would hear him, for
he would speak without any asperity.—( Hear.) The charge
against me in the abstract is, that being Speaker, I bu-
sied myself in other matters ; that I assisted in the forma-
tion of the present Ministry, and counselled and advised the
dissolution of the late Government. —( Hear, hear.) Now,
these were the three points affecting my public character, and
peculiarly affecting it as the Speakr of this House, who, to
a certain extent, must be indebted to the existing Govern-
ment, and would, therefore, be guilty of lending a hand
to the extinction of that body which had given him the
proud pre-eminence which he filled. Now to all, to each one,
and to every one of these charges, I reply, there is not one
word of truth from beginning to end.—( Loud cheers.) Sir,
with respect to my having been mixed up with other matters,
allow me to explain that as soon after the prorogation of
the last Parliament as the remaining public business which re-
mained to be disposed of would allow me, I went into the
country with my family ; and it will be remembered that at that
time his Majesty was also at Brighton. But I remained there
without any communication, directly or indirectly, with any
member of the Government until I was called back to London,
by express. upon the occasion of the lamentable fire which hap-
pened.—( Hear.) I came to London as quickly as possible,
and, after witnessing the devastation which had occerred,-it
was suggested to me, and I instantly adopted the suggestion,
that it was my duty to acquaint his Majesty of it. With the
permission of the House, I will state the terms in which I
wrote to the King :
The Speaker feels it his duty to acquaint his Majesty,
that having heard at Brighton early this morning that
the two Houses of Parliament, and the house in which,
by his gracious Majesty's permission, he lived, were on
fire, he lost no time in coming up to London, and the
Speaker regrets to state that both Houses of Parliament are
entirely destroyed, nothing being left standing but the walls.
A portion of the Speaker's house is also consumed, and the
domestic part entirely destroyed. Some of the public offices
have also suffered the same fate, and others have been much
damaged ; but most of the public papers therein deposited
have been saved. The Speaker regrets to add that Wesmin-
ster Hall was also in imminent danger, and was injured in
several parts. The Speaker trusts his Majesty will pardon
the liberty he has taken in forwarding this communication."
Sir, having written this letter, I carried it myself to the
Secretary of State for the Home Department. I saw the
Under-Secretary. The Principal Secretary being at that time
out of town, I told him I had written this letter to his Ma-
jesty, and requested him to send it by a special messenger to
the King, and to acquaint Lord Melbourne with the objects of
my letter and my visit. In the course of that evening
I received a letter informing me that his Majesty had
arrived in town, and desired my attendance at St. James's
Palace. At two o'clock I received another letter desiring to
see me before the morning. I also received a letter, stating
that his Majesty had received my report, and inclosing ano-
ther letter, in which his Majesty made some suggestions as t 9
the mode of accommodating the Parliament. I went and saw
Ls rd Melbourne, and told him I had received an answer to
my letter; and informed him of the contents; and I also
particularly requested him to observe the object I had in view.
I had received a letisz from Lord Melbourne, requesting to
see me. I never missed a single day's attendance, and I was
a party to the Report emanating from the Privy Council,
relative to the destruction of the two Houses. At the next
meeting I attended, I inquired if his Majesty had any com-
mands for me, and I was informed that his Majesty had not
expressed anything of the kind. On the day following I re-
ceived a letter from Sir IL Taylor, stating that his Majesty
had commanded me to go down to Windsor, and be there
at five o'clock. I had a long audience with his Majesty,
and at its conclusion I requested his Majesty's permission
to communicate to Lord Melbourne every thing that had
occurred.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") I did not request
permission to state it to this House, and therefore I do not feel
myself at liberty;to do so.—(-Hear.) But I refer to Lord
Melbourne, to the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, and to the
Noble Lord who presided over the Woods and Forests for the
truth of this statement. I returned on Saturday from
Windsor, and his Majesty proceeded to Brighton. Whet,
I returned to London, I sheaved to the Right Hon. Gentle-
man that I had his Majesty's commands to wait upon him, and
to make a survey of the ruins and gardens of the late Houses ;
and the Right Hon. Gentleman will recollect that I went over
the houses and gardens, and the report was then drawn up.
But before that report was forwarded by me to his Majesty, I
submitted it to Lord Melbourne and to the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, and then I despatched it. Subsequent to that the late
Ministry was dissolved, and I now declare that I had no anti-
cipation that such an event was near at hand, and that the
first intimation I received of it was an article which I
read in the morning papers.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") The
next charge which I have seen brought against me was,
that I had busied myself in the formation of a new adminis-
tration, and the only overt act which is alleged against me, is
that I attended the Privy Council Meetings. I did attend
them, and the first was on the Monday following the resigna-
tion of the late Ministry. I attended his Majesty at St.
James's, and I there saw many members of the late Govern-
ment. They had audiences of his Majesty—so had I—( Hear,
hear)—and a message was also delivered, that all those in
the outer room who were privy Councillors, should conic
into the inner room, and sit at the Council Board. These were
the cirumstances under which I attended. I was merely then by
sufferance in my official capacity as Privy Councillor. The
other meetings I attended from having received the ordinary
printed circulars sent to the Members. It would be difficult,
and I may add improper, to state what occurred at those meet-
ings, or to enter into minute details of the business transacted
at those meetings; and I believe such a statement would not
be consistent with the oath of a Privy Councillor ' • but there
are many gentlemen present who are Members of the Privy
Council—its votes are open to them, and it will be
sufficient to state to the House that on any of the occasions
when I attended nothing was transacted but business of the
most formal nature.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear.")
When my Right Hon. Friend Sir Robert Peel returned, and
took upon himself the station which he now occupies, he did
me the honour to send for me to his house. It was upon an
occasion when I was requested to attend a Privy Council,
which had nothing whatever political in its object—it was for
the purpose of getting the sanction of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer to make good the payments of the Exchequer,
and to fix the salaries. With these two exceptions, from the
time of Sir Robert Peel's return up to this time, I haVe never
attended a Cabinet Council at his house.—(Cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) I will not go further with this subject.
But when I hear of constant visits and communications with
the Home-office before my Right Hon. Friend (Peel) re-
turned, and of my being continually with the Duke of Wel-
lington, I think I am bound to say that there is not one word
of truth in it Cheers.) It would be perfectly immate-
rial if it were true. I would have felt it an honour if I were
justified in calling so frequently as I was reported to have called.
But I should consider it an act of impertinence, having no bu-
siness to transact there, if I were to call as has been stated.
I never did so, and all I will say to the charge is, that it is
totally false.--( Cheers.) Now, with respect to the forma-
tion of the present Ministry, I will boldly say, that with the
exception of my Right Hon. Friend Sir R. Peel, the Lord
Chancellor, and the Duke of Wellington, I never have ad-
vised, never suggested, never counselled, and never knew of
the appointment of any one individual, till it had taken place.
—( Great cheering from the Ministerial benches.) So much
for that charge. I will now come to this—namely, the
dissolution of the last Parliament.--( Hear, hear,) It has been
said that I assisted at the Council where that measure
was resolved upon. It is not true.—( Great cheering.) I
never did advise, never did counsel, never was consulted, and
never had anything to do with the dissolution of the last Par-
liament. So little did I know of it, that it was by accident,
purely by accident, that I became acquainted with it. I knew
nothing of the fact till it was announced in the Gazette.—

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 1835.

(Cheers. I will only mention this further circumstance, and
the fact will occur to the minds of all the Gentlemen here, that
if I were so confident that Parliament would be dissolved,
why did I not take those steps that were taken
by others—why did I not address my constituency in the pros-
pect of a dissolution—why did I not beg for their favour ?
The fact was that I have had no communication whatever
upon the subject, nor did I have any with my constituents
until I ceased to be Speaker of that House. When I did so
cease, I then certainly had communications on the subject.
I am now again a candidate for the high office I for-
merly held, but with respect to my having had any
communication with any human being, at any time, or upon any
occasion, with reference to the late dissolution of the last Go-
vernment, or that there is anything from which to infer that I
had anything to do, or that I delivered a single opinion re-
specting the dissolution of the last Parliament. I will say
that to each and to all I will give, with the utmost solemnity,
the strongest denial that can be given. I will declare—
before this House—that, from the beginning to the end,
it is wholly, ard utterly false.—(Great cheering. )
I have felt it but respectful to the House to state this. As I
said before. I have long been the servant of the House of
Commons and their chief officer, and there is no disgrace
which I should feel so heavy, as upon the present occasion to
be discredited by this House.—( Loud cheers.) With respect
to who is the best person to fill the office of Chairman, I am
sure that the House will concur with me, and I mean no
disparagement to my Right Honourable Friend ( Mr.
Abercromby) in saying so, that at the present moment, from
peculiar circumstances, it will require great experience, and
great knowledge of the business of the House, in order to
discharge the duties of Chairman. Whether lam elected or
not falls to nothing, when compared to this. I have the
highest respect for the Right honourable and Learned
Gentleman who has been proposed in opposition to me, and I
hope he will believe that I speak with perfect sincerity when
I say that no rnarm rates his talents higher than I do,
and I feel that it is no disparagement to him to say
that even he would feel great difficulties in filling
the char of this House. I will now conclude ;* but before I
sit down, perhaps the House will permit me to express a wish—
it is the one uppermost in my mind—that whatever may he the
determination of the House upon the present occasion, they
may form a sound judgment in electing him as their Speaker
who will discharge his duties most usefully to the country,
most acceptably to the House, and most satisfactory to the
public at large. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded amidst
very loud cheers.
Mr. ABERCROMBY then rose and was received with
most enthusiastic cheers. From the situation in which the
Right Hon. Gentleman stood, and from the low tone in which
he spoke, it was almost impossible to catch a single whole sen-
tence of what he stated. We, however, understood the Right
Hon. Gentleman to say that he had yielded to the sug-
gestions of his friends, and not by any desire of his own, in
standing forward, as a candidate for the high office of Speaker
of that House. The House was now about to perform its
first and one of its most important duties.—( Loud cheers.)
He had always considered the selection of the individual
who was to fill the highest place in that House was one of its
most paramount duties.—( Cheers.) lie would say nothing at
the present moment with reference to the fitness of the Right
Hon. Gentleman or himself to fill that high office, but would
leave that point to be decided by tia judgment of those who
were much more competent judges than himself.—( Cheers. )
The Right lion. Gentleman opposite, no doubt, as he thought
properly and most honourably, had entered into explanations
of his conduct with reference to what had taken place
not within, but without the walls of that House. It
must be known to all present that the contest out of the
House had been conducted in a very different manner to
that in which it would be carried on in it.—(Great cheerine.)
He would not advert now to what had taken place elsewhere,
because, unless he was very much deceived, many days
would not pass before a motion would be brought be
fore the House, which would have the effect of deciding
the particular question which had been so much *the subject
of conversation out of doors.---( Loud cheers.) Whatever
opinion he had entertained upon different subjects, whether
right or wrong he would not pretend to say, had been adopted
by bine because he believed them to be the best. He did not
think it necessary to trouble the 1-louse
.further, as he was
firmly convinced its decision would be such as would give
weight and dignity to itself, and insure all its rights and pri-
vileges, and secure the conducting of its business with order
and regularity, which was essential to the comfort, honour,
confidence of the people—( Cheers. )
Lord STANLEY then rose amidst great cheering and ad-
dressed the House as follows—Sir, as I conceive it is not pro-
bable that any other gentleman will be submitted to the con-
deration of the House other than those that have already been
laid before it, I hope I shall not be considered as impertinently
intruding myself on the attention of the House, when I con-
fess that I feel anxious to take this opportunity of stating the
grounds for the vote which it is my intention to give on the
present occasion.—( Cheers.) In doing so, lam anxious, in
a question which partakes in some degree of personal and po-
litical consideration, to state my views without offence to either
of the two gentlemen who have been put in nomination, for
both of whom I entertain personal respect—(Cheers)—and
from whom I have received during the existence of the late
government, great and 'important assistance.—( Cheers.)
I had the honour to form part of that Government—an honour
I shall ever feel in having for four years been a member of that
Administration. I yield to no Member in my attachment to
that which has been put forward as the great principle involved
in this question—_l mean the principle of Reform. I yield to
no Member of that or any other Government in my attachment
to liberal principles. I will venture to say, lam second to
none in the zeal with which I endeavoured to support it. But
in 1833, although I did not express my sentiments on that oc-
casion, I conveyed most fully my praises to those which were
everywhere bestowed by every side of the House on the talents,
integrity, and impartiality of my lien. friend—that no difference
of public opinion were sufficient to counterbalance his
inestimable services.—( Loud cheers.) I was of that opi-
nion then, lam of that opinion now. But when I came down
to the House, I must confess I did expect to hear a declare •
don of the differences of circumstances under which their
opinions had changed.—(Cheers.) I came down with com-
munications from neither one side nor the other, founded on
nothing but the public prints, and wherein I was informed that
disclosures were to be made that would call on the House as a
matter of honour, to do an act of justice to itself in not sub-
mitting to an intriguer as the President of their assembly.
Now, Sir, what has been done ? My lion. Friend who pro-
posed the Right Honourable Gentleman, and no man enter-
tains a higher respect for talent and consistency than I do,
says not one weld on the subject ; but that, on the contrary,
my Right Honourable Friend ( Sir Chs.rlcs Manners Sutton)
stood as high in the estimation of the country as he ever stood
before. But he says that a great public principle is involved
here. My Hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle, who fol-
lowed in the same course, explained a little more what that
general principle was, which I confess, in my own mind, had
bean left in doubt.----( Hear, hear.) He had declared
that no public charges were made on his public conduct,
but that, moreover, if public charges had been made else-
where, that the House of Commons could not take cogni-
zance of them ; that if they had been made, the House was
not to take advantage of them. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man was, he was convinced, from what had fallen from him,
not satisfied with his position ; he had felt that in that po-
sition in which his friends desired to place him, he ought
not only to be unconvicted, but unsuspected. I agree
with him, my Right Honourable . Friend has met the
charges boldly—be has met them freely—he has met
them unanswered—without an intention of their being an-
swered ; and I say, then, on these grounds the House
of Commons cannot degrade the Right lion. Gentleman
from the situation in which he now stan-ls.—( Great cheering.)
I come then to the public principle which is involved in this
question. What is there that this House cannot give the
go-by in this as you did on a former occasion ? The person
whom you select to be your Speaker should, they contend, be
known to entertain opinions in conformity with the majo-
rity of that House. Is that a new principle ? • Was not
that proposition met by Lord Grey's Administration ?
The declaration says that that was not a proposition of public
principle ; but if this be a great public principle, surely that
which we gave the go-by in 1833 was of infinitely greater
importance ; but I ask the House—l do not question the consis-
tency of those gentlemen who held that opinion in 1833—but I
ask whether in following up those opinions in 1833 a complete
refutation was not given to such a principle:? But, Sir, in 1833
they say there was no question upon which there had been
a direct appeal to the country. Let the country look to 1831,
in which an appeal was agitated, and in which a great principle
was involved—l allude to the Corn Bill. Was there ever a
question on which this principle was brought forward ? And
what was the first act of that Parliament but to elect a Speaker
whom they knew to entertain opinions different from the
administration and the majority of the House ?—(llear. )
I might inquire of the Right Hon. Gentleman who proposed
Mr. Abercromby, in what respect the circumstances of 1833
and 1835 have so far differed, that we should elect a different
Speaker ? But I have pointed out to him,' that in one re-
spect at least the circumstances of the present times are not
stronger—they are not so strong, with regard to the question
of the Speaker, in the general proposal of the House. Those
principles being put to issue, as they were in 1833, what are
the different circumstances ? I ask again and again, and I
know not what those circumstances are, except I am to take
the doctrine of the Honourable Gentleman, the seconder
of Mr. Abercromby, and that doctrine is, that this is not a
test of principle, but a test of the strength of party.—( Cheers
from the Ministerial benches, reiterated by the Opposition.)
We are told it is essential to the Crown that no mistake should
exist as to the sentiments of the House ; that no mistake in
1833 could have been entertained--that no mistake in 1831
could have been entertained, because upon both these
occasions the Hon. Gentleman asserted that the Government
*—wielding the whole power of the Government, in proposing
a Speaker, must consent to such a sacrifice as the expediency
of time moment required. If it were a great public principle,
no expediency, nothing on earth ought to have allowed a
Government to have acted so. But the Hon. Gentleman
says circumstances have now materially changed. They are
changed in one respect certainly, that we were in office in
1833, and that we are not in office in 1835.—(Laughter, and
cheers.) I really don't mean to say this invidiously. Hon.
Gentlemen may perhaps not believe me when I say I speak in
all sincerity, and I use the words of one of the Hon. Gentle-
men who proposed Mr. Abercromby. The difference be-
tween the cases of 1833 and 1835 has been stated by him
te be, that in one case a Speaker was proposed by
those who wielded the controul of the Government,
haeieg a certain majority in their favour, and that in the pre_
instance the majority may be less, and that therefore it is es-
sential we should take this opportunity of signifying to the
Crown that we have no confidence in the A,dmini,tration.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) Is this the principle ?—( Hear, hear,
hear.) Well then, if it is, I say that an act of grosser in-
justice---(Great cheering from the Ministerial benches.)--