The Sun.
London, England, 1835-08-01 00:00:00

whom that money was received. The witness athnitted he
bad recetvedinoney, hut he refused to say from whom he re--
neived it ; and then came the question—who advised the wit-
' pass to-refuse to answer that question. lie had told tbc House
• who advised him, before be refused answering. The ques-
-Sion now -was, with whom be had consulted since.
Mr. 'WYNN thought the house had better proceed to con-
sider, whether the question put by the Committee ought to
be answered. It was a question of great eieety.
Mr. O'CONNELL rose to order. The question before
the flousl was, whether the question put by the Hon. Mem-
bcr for Lambeth should be answered or not. That questicn
was, whether any body else had spoken to the witness upon
the subject of his evidence, since he was before the Cernitip..
see? His answer to that question could not pessibly eneno-
mtahimself with bribery. There was, thereiorci, not the
objection to the question being put.
Mr. PR AED of jected to the question being put. Tilot4.;h
anzweii,l,,,, the question might not d.) any harm' it could no
Ps', d and %tom wasting time.—(No, no !) it was assuming
• a most inquisitorial charac.ter.
M-. O'CONNELL denied that it was a waste of time.
The Hors, Gentleman had used the word inquisitorial, and
no improperii so ; far what was the House doing ? Endea-
vouring to trace to the source the worst epesic3 of crime that
mold oossibly be committed—bribery.—(Chttare,) It was
the duty e! 'he House to the whole matter to the Leatiotil•
Mr. It. WA CON consiilLeed tile question a most material
one, as it would ultn7lately eitheet tho decision of the House.
Afte a few words trjm fir. 1'3'44
ill., C.-2 Wyne, Mr.
---:eetZll
Scarlett, and Ji O'Connet.,
Lord J. RCS ELL was oft)
to investigate the charge of bribery. Tn.:* was
rtiersquetstottol
n thatfor
the Committee to consider. Ile, however, me -or the
the House had decided that the witness ought to ans.. - -
question put to him by the Committee. If that was not the
case, they had better decide that point first.
Mr. HAWES would, in order to facilitate that decision,
withdraw his question for the present.
Lord J. RUSSEL then moved that it was the opinion of
this House that the witness ought to answer the questions put
to him by the Committee.
Mr. C. WYNN concurred in the motion.
Mr. HARDY considered it a mockery to atoll a witness
that lie was not bound to answer any question that would tend
to criminate himself, and then immediately to determine that
the witness was bouad to answer a certain question that was
put to him.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the witness had already ad-
mitted receiving the money ; to say, therefore, from whom be
received it could not criminate himself, however it rnight af-
fect the party who gave it to him.
After a few words from Dr. Nicholl, Mr. Praed, and Mr.
Wagon, the Ilouse divided.
For the motion
Against it
Majority
Prentice was again called to the bar and addressed by
The SPEAKER to the following effect have no* to
inform you that it is the opinion of the House that you ought
to answer the question put to you by the Committee—from
whom you received the sum of tool. or 2001. ; and that the
House has decided that the question was a proper and cor-
rect one to be put to you. Having acquainted you with this
decision of the House, I have further to add, that this House
does now expect, that when you are next called before the
Committee, you will be ready to answer that question, on the
assurance that this House is desirous that you should be pro-
tected in giving your evidence, and that you should not answer
any question which will criminate yourself. i wish now to
know whether you are prepared to go before.the Committee,
and, concurring in the determination of this House, to an-
swer the question when it shall be again repeated to you by
that Committee?
Prentice—May I have time to consider that question, Sir ?
—( Cries of " Oh," and " No, no.") After a short pause-
I still adhere to my thrmer determination. •
The SPEAKER—You still adhere to your former deter-
mination ?

119
49

Prentice—Yes.
The witness having been directed to withdraw,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said—After the answer the wit-
ness has just given, Sir, it becomes necessary for me to move.
" That the witness, in refusing to answer the question put by
the Committee, is guilty cf :breach of the privileges of this
house."—( Hear, hear.)
Sir HENRY H A RDINGE begged to ask whether an in.
dividual, who was assured that he would be protected by the
Committee and by that House, in giving his evidence, and
that he was not desired to criminate himself, ought to be
made the subject of such a motion ?
Mr. O'CONNELL—It would be much more extraordinary,
and abundantly mere absurd, if the House, having decided that
the question is not one which would criminate the witness,
there were to be an appeal from the decision of the House, to
the judgment of the witness.—( Hear, hear.) It would be an
excellent scheme of protecting—not the witness, but somebody
else.—( Cheers.) It was not the witness that required pro-
tection ; somebody else was the person to be protected: not
the witness.—( Hear, hear.) The House having decided that
the witness was bound to answer the question, he thought it
was not easily to be concetlei that the witness, after that deci-
sion, should presume to insist on his refusal.—( Cheers.)
The question was then put.
Mr. GOULBURN felt bound to admit that the House bad
no alternative but to accede to the motion, as the witness still
refused to answer the question.
Mr. WODEHOUSE was of opinion that no one could
view a case of this kind without being strongly impressed with
the necessity of some better tribunal than at present existed
for dealing with such questions. There was rapidly spreading
throughout the country a feeling of dissatisfaction and terror
at the proceedings of that House.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY -entirely differed from the Hon.
Gentleman who had just sat down. What did the present
case amount to? A man crafty and subtle, as the present
witness undoubtedly was, admirably well selected for the pur-
pose of the concealed and deeper villanies of the proceeding,—
this man was told, through the organs of daily communication,
that the extremest punishment to which he could possibly be
exposed, was to be sent to Newgatc for the short remaining
period of the Session.—( Hear, hear.) The crime of which
he was presumed to be guilty—the crime he protected by his
silence—was a direct attact on the dearest interests of the
,people.—(Hear, hear.) In what way was it possible for
men of feeble fortunes, but of sincere and honest intentions,
to stand up as advocates of the people and their rights, if
they were to be assailed by a large and concealed fund, sup-
plied from the overgrown wealth of the bloated creatures,
who dreaded that in the crumbling of corruption they
svould be buried beneaol its ruins.—( Loud cheers.) It ap-
peared to him that one qi;:.'stion more ought to have been
put to the witness as a test of Ns sincerity. It was this :
" If you are assured of the protectiO of the House by the
exercise of that power wideh, as the Suprzsme. Court of Le-
gislature, it possesses—if the protection of the ik".l.' be thrown
around year pure and honest conduct—are you prepeeeed to
act an honest part, and state by whom you have been em-
ployed, from whom you have received the money in question,
and for what pureose you applied it ?"—( Cheers.) If the
witness stated in reply that lie was anxious to do his duty, but
that he dreaded the consequences of the penalties to which he
would Le liable, when those who were the foremost to urge him
forward in his career of crime, were the first to desert him
if he stated that he was ready as a citizen of this country to
tell the whole tale of the wrongs complained of—but was
deterred by this apprehension—then would be the time to ap-
peal to the consideration of that House; and he (Mr. Harvey)
was quite certain that such an appeal would not be unavail-
ing.—( Cheers. )
Mr. CHARLES WYNN contended that the House had
no power to put such a question to the witness.
Mr. PRINGLE repudiated, in the most decided manner,
the motives which the lion. and Learned Member for Dub-
lin, and the lion. and Learned Member for Southwark, had
imputed to those v:ho were left in the minority in the division
which had just taken place—he meant a disposition to uphold
bribery.
Mr. WARBURTON thought a very fit occasion hail arisen
for making some communication to the House of Lords to
consult the Journals of that House, with the view of ascer-
taiaing in what state toe all for the indemnity of witnesses,
Irid been sent up to their Lordships, now was.
Mr. 11UME observed that the house had on former occa-
gees isterfered to stay actions of a much more imeertant na-
ture against individuals. As he thought it very a6isable that
the witness should be called in and asked the question proposed
by ins Hon. Friend the Member for Seutie.vark, he hoped the
Noble Lord would consent to withdraw his motion for the
present.—( No, no.)
After a few wore: from Mr. ORD, Mr. Ha :Dv, and Mr.
Txcass BARING, the question was put and carried.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I believe I ought now to move
that the witness be taken into the custody of the Sergeant at-
Arms, in order that he may be examined, from time to time,
before ties Committee.—( Hear, hear.)
Air. HUME felt much inclined to move that the witness
migb'z be called in and asked the question which his Hon.
Friend, the Member for Southwark, had proposed.
Mr. HARDY wished to know how the witness was to be
protected against the consecetences of a confession.
Mr. HUME replied that there was no difficulty about that
matter, because, if the worst came to the worst, the House
could pay any fines that might be imposed upon him.—( Hear )
Mr. HENRY BULWER thought the question to which
the Hon. Member for Middlesex had adverted should be put,
as lie, for one, would be very sorry to punish the witness, if
lie were only deterred by fear of the consequences from an-
swering C,e question. •
Mr.HARVE Y slid that the House possessed the power of
inderarlifving witnesses; it had exercised it on former occa-
sions, and might do so on the present, if it thought fit.
After a few %voids from Lord STORMONT, the question
was put. and carried.
WITNESSES INDEMNITY BILL.

Mr, HUME gave notice of his intention to move that a
commttee be appoiatcd to examine the Journals of the House
of Lords, with the view of ascertaining what progress had been
made in the Witnesses Indemnity Bill, which had passed the
House of Conowns.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL. suggested that it would be better
fur the Hon. Gentleman who had charge of the Bill in
that House, to incyire into its progress before the motion
was made.
Mr. ORD had confided the Bill to a Noble Lord, he did
not know whom, but that he would make the necessary in-
quiries without delay. -
The notice was accordingly withdrawn.
CHURCH" OF IRELAND—ECCLESIASTICAL BE-

SIEFICES IN ENGLAND AND `VALES--STAF-
FORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in the absence of his Right
Frictid, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, postponed
the recommittal of the Irish Church Bill until Monday next
Na begged to move the first reading of a Pill which bad

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