The Sun.
London, England, 1860-01-25 00:00:00

would go into congress or not. (Hear, hear.) Upon
the general question the right hon. gentleman seems
not to have any doubt that our decision was tight. When
the proposal came we might either have accepted it or
declined it. Suppose we had declined. Suppose we had said,
" We anticipate that a majority of the Powers who will be
parties to the congress will differ with us upon an essential
point upon which we have a strong and decided opinion.
We make no secret that it is our intention in son-
gross to assert the principle—(to which I am glad
to find the right hon. gentleman agree)—that it is right
the people of Italy should be left to settle their own affairs
—tnat the people of Italy should be left, as the right
hon. gentleman says, by their own will, opinion, and mei gy
to settle the question of government between themselves
and 'their rulers, or between themselves and their allies,
neighbettring States. We anticipate a majority of the
Powers will differ with us, and we decline." We made no
secret ; we took plans to make known that such was
,our
principle, end that we should maintain it ut congress. If
we had found that it was likely a majority of the other
Powers would have differed inopinion, teid.a moment would
have arrived in congress in which we should have been
compelled either to acquiesce in silence in a priw iple of
which we did not approve, or withdrew, it would have been
an element in our decision. It was, therefore, of the utmost
importance that we should ascertain as accurately as we
would what were the opinions and feelings of the French
Government in regard to this question, and it was upon it
that communications took place between us and the Govern-
ment of France. When the invitation conic, if we had met
it with a refusal, one of two things would have happened.
It was possible, in the first place, that Prussia and Russia
might have said, " If England, ono of the great Powers in
the congress of 1815, does not choose to go into congress,
neither do we." It was possible that our refusal might
have prevented tho congress assembling. If that had re
salted in disturbances in Italy, we should have been called
the cause of those calamities, and that was a responsibility
owuhm acich think we ought not lightly to have incurred. If, on
the other hand, congress met without us, England, by its
would have excluded itself from a great transaction
in which all the other Powers of Europe were engaged.
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conclusions adopted opposed t) our convictions, and which
we might have prevented from being adopted had we been
there to give our reasons against them. We, therefore, were
perfectly right, I think, in accepting the imitation, and we
should have been very blameable if we had held aloof from
the congress, if congress there had been. (Hear, hear.) We
were prepared to go into congress free front all engagements,
but having announced fully what our opinions were as to
the propriety pf leaving the Italians to settle their own. af-
fairs, without any foreign interference, by force of arms, I
am quite persuaded that if that polity is adhered to, if the
Italians are left free to settle their own affairs, the result
would probably be more satisfactory; and if it is not the
Italians alone will be to blame. (Hear, hear.) Then, the
right hon. gentleman, quitting Mr. Reuter'e telegrams,
took higher ground, and quoted the letter of the Emperor
of the French to the Pope—though I think he did not
read it quite correctly, which, he contends, contains an en-
gagement that, if the Pope would agree to allow the Ro-
magna to remain independent, the powers of Europe, (in-
cluding England, as the right hon. gentleman conceived),
would guarantee him the secure possession of the rest of
his territories. Speaking from recollection, though, pro-
bably, as the right hon. gentleman has the paper before
him he may be right after all—(Mr. Disraeli—l spoke from
recollection.) Well, then, my recollection:differs from that
of the right hon. gentleman. The phrase, I think, is that
in that case the Pope might address himself to the other
Powers, and ask—demander—for such a guarantee,
which I think the Emperor said they would very likely
give. All I can say is that we were no parties to such an
engagement. (Hear, hear.) It is not a guarantee, I think,
which this country would be at all disposed to enter into.
{Hear, hear.) I trust that I have given the right honour-
able gentleman an answer on this point which will be per-
fectly satisfactory to him. I quite agree with him in say-
ing that it would be trespassing needlessly on the time of
the house to go into the detailed communications which
have taken place on the subject on the present occasion.
What they are will be shown by the papers which are to
be laid on the table; and though I do not recollect the in-
stances to which the right honourable gentleman referred
of papers promised at the beginning of the session being
delayed until the end, I can assure him that my noble
friend has no intention of delaying until the end of the
session the production of the papers which he is anxious
to see, and which I trust will be perfectly satisfactory to him
and to the house. Our policy with regard to Italy has been
the simplest possible. It is fully explained in the Speech
from the Throne, which I cannot admit to be ambiguous or
unintelligible on this point. Our policy has never varied.
We said in the beginning, and we say still, that no foreign
force should be exerted to control the people of Italy in the
arrangement of their own affitirs. Our opinion is that they
should be left to settle their affairs among themselves be-
tween people and government; that they should be free to
adopt teat form of government and such an arrangement of
states they might think best for their own interests, and
that ne foreign power ought to interfere by force of arms to
prevent them from arriving at the result which is most sa-
tisfactory to their own feelings and interests. (Hear, heat .)
The right hon. gentleman ways that if you ask the opinion
of diftereat people, all of whom are respectively and indivi-
dually good authorities on the subject of Italy, one will tell „
you one thing, and another another ; that whether it is about
the Romagna, Tuscany, or Sardinia, or Naples, or Lom-
bardy, every one you consult gives you a different opinion.
Is that peculiar to Italy P (Hear, hear.) Without going
further than the walls of this house, I should like to know
whether you won't find gentlemen here who will give you
the most opposite opinions about any question of domestic
interest you like to name. (Hear.) Ask my hon. friend oppo-
site (Mr. Spooner) his opinion about Maynooth, and then go
to some Irish member below the gangway. (Laughter.) Ask
about parliamentary reform, or any other question on which
public attention is teed, and I will venture to say thatwithin
the walls of this house you will find as many discordant
opinions asthe right hon. gentleman says exist among Italian
authorities with regard to the state of Italy. Well, then,
adopt the same course withregard to Italy as you do with re-
gard to questions of domestic policy. In this house a ques-
tion is settled according to what the majority thinks about
it; let the people of Italy settle their own questions in the
same way. (Hear, hear.) If it be true that Tuscany
wishes to be a separate nationality, so be it. If it be true
that the King of Naples is the most beloved of monarchs
—(laughter)—let his subjects remain united to him in the
bonds of affection. If it be true that the people of the Ro-
magna are enamoured of the Government of the rope, let
them return to the happiness from which they are temso-
rarily separated. (Laughter.) All that we want is that the
Italians should be left to judge of their own interests—to
shape their future arrangements according to their own
opinions of that which was most likely to contribute to
their happiness and most in unison with their feelings and
opinions. (Hear, hear.) I quite concur with the right hon.
gentleman that there is no question which has arisen for
some time upon which the people of this country feel more
decidedly than on this. and I am persuaded that the policy
which we recommend is most in consonance with their
wishes. It is founded upon the same principle as that on
which the Throne of this country now rests, and therefore,
in advocating it, I feel that the Government are backed and
supported by the feelings of the people at large, by the his-
torical traditions of our own country, and by the principles
on which that constitution is founded under which we are
so happy to live. I trust, therefore. that when the papers
are produced the House will find in them nothing to cen-
sure, bat much to approve ; and that in pursuing the course
which it is our intention to pursue, that in endeavouring by
negotiation, whether in congress or out of congress, if no
congress should meet, to secure to the people of Italy free-
dom from the control of foreign interference, we shall meet
the wishes and receive the approbation of the country.
(Cheers.)
The motion for an address was then agreed to, and a
committee nominated to draw it up.
The house adjourned at half-past 7 o'clock.