The Sun.
London, England, 1860-07-17 00:00:00

the noble marquis. At the same time, the subject to which
the motion related was of a most extensive character, and he
gathered from the silence which had been observed by noble
lords opposite that there was no disposition to discuss it at
any considerable length. He could not but admit the force
of the observations which had fallen from his noble friend
(Lord Wolehouse) in support of the views of her Majesty's
Government, but he must be allowed to observe that the
subject was so much bestt with danger, that there was so
much of delicacy in everything appertaining to it—(hear)—
and that there was so little certainty as to the results of the
conference, that it would have been satisfactory to have
learned from the Government that it was their intention to
come to some understanding with France before any fur-
ther steps were taken. He thought that by going into the
conference they were exposed to the dangers of appearing to
give their sanction to the annexation of Savoy to France,
or of increasing the coolness and estrangement which had
lately taken place between this country and France. He
was of opinion that whit this country was called upon to
do was to maintain as far as possible, consistent with the
dignity and honour of the country, a state of peace and
good feeling towards Fiance. He did not entirely concur
with his noble friend (the Marquis of Clanricarde) that it
was to the permanent interest of this country to main-
tain a close and formal alliance with France, though he
believed that it was for the general advantage of Europe
that the two countries should remain in a state of general
amity, each evincing a desire to consult the interests and
honour of both.. Such relations would in his opinion be
much more conducive to a lasting good understanding be-
tween the two countries than the more formal, close, and
intimate alliance suggested by the noble marquis. Such an
understanding existed at this moment in reference t o opera-
tions at a distant part of the world, and in another quarter
not so remote, and all that was desirable for the future was
that such a state of relations should be maintained as should
lead to cordial amity upon all matters concerning the gene-
ral interests of Europe. With regard to the position of
Switzerland, he could assure their lordships that no one
could admire more than he did the conduct of the distin-
guished confederacy of that country. Having been formerly
connected with that country in an official capacity, and
having had an opportunity of remarking the historic virtues
of the people perpetuated through so many generations, he
could not but feel satisfaction at the reasonable demands the
confederacy had made in stepping forward in defence of
what they considered their just rights, and he should be
glad to see her Majesty's Government enabled to give t*m
as much countenance as the circumstances of the case
would permit. He did not think that in the present debate
full justice had been done to the position in which Switzer-
land stood, and to the great qualities which her people
possessed. When he saw a country with such a limited
population bringing an army into the field of not less than
100,000 men, and artillery in proportion ; when he learned
from good authority that they were prepared to back up
that force if necessary by a fresh demonstration to a similar
extent ; and when he considered the limited means at their
disposal, he felt it impossible not to entertain the highest
esteem for their character. He did not agree with an
opinion which had been expressed on a former occasion,
that the acquisition of Savoy by France was a light matter,
but at the same time he did not believe that the acquisition
was of such a nature as to compromise the general intel-esfs
of Europe or imperil the neutrality of Switzerlaut. No
event could have shown in a more striking degree the
power'of France, and perhaps allowance ought to be made
for the distrust and apprehension which Switzerland had
manifested in reference to the ulterior designs of her more
powerful neighbour. He was anxious that her Majesty's
Government should be enabled to carry out their present
European policy, of which he entirely approved, but he was
afraid that the result of the conference would add to their
difficulties rather than diminish them. (Hear, hear.)
Lord BROUGHAM expressed his entire approval of the
remarks which had fallen from the noble lord the Under
Secretary (Lord Wodehouse), and commented in strong
terms upon the nature of the interference of France in the
general affairs of Italy. He thought the heat policy both
for France and this country was a policy of non-intervene
tion, and he deeply regretted that it had been departed
from. France Complained that her motives were impro•
perly suspected ; but the best way to prevent suspicion was
to tyke care that her conduct was honest. He thought it
would be much more advantageous both to the interests of
France and England that there should be a good under-
standing between the two countries, than that each should
be in a state of constant, unceasing, and vigilant prepara-
tim for the worst. (Hear, hear.)
The subject then dropped.
ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION BILL.
On the order for the house going into committee on this
bill,

The Earl of CHICHESTER moved an amendment that
the house should go into committee on this bill that day
three months.
The amendment was agreed to without a division, and
the bill was consequently lost.
METROPOLITAN BUILDING ACT (AMEND-
MENT) BILL.
This bill passed the second reading.
LEITH HARBOUR AND DOCKS BILL.
Thia bill was also read a second time.
BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
LOCAL TAXATION BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
JEWS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
UNIVERSITY AND COLLEGE ESTATES BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
CENSUS (ENGLAND, &c.) BILL.
This bill was brought up from the House of Commons and
read a first time; as was also the Census (Ireland) Bill.
INDEMNITY BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.)

WAYS AND MEANS.

The house then went into Committee of Ways and
Meaas.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir, upon
a recent evening, the right hon. baronet the member for
Dreitwich raised very fairly an issue with respect to the
conduct of her Majesty's Government in regard to the
finances of the country, and said that in the state and pro-
spects of the public expenditure, it was not just for them to
have dealt with, or as he expressed it, to have tampered
with, the finances is the month of February last. I only
refer to that for the purposa of saying that I think no more
proper subject of discussion coald be raised, and that I
hink the opportunity has arrived for discussing it. But
with these matters of attack and defence I have no concern.
I shall confine myself entirely to matters of business, and
to the provision which her Majesty's Government propose
to the house to make in order to meet the expenditure which
has been voted in supply. The committee will have per-
ceived that there stand upon the paper two motions in my
name. One relates to a set of resolutions which have not
before been printed; the other to a set which the commit-
tee have seen printed for a length of time. One set of reso-
lutions is to provide for the recent vote of supply with re-
gard to China ; the second is that portion to which the right
hon. gentleman has just alluded, which has not 'yet been
sanctioned, of the financial measures of the month of Feb-
ruary last. Sir, the latter I dismiss entirely at present ;
and I confine myself to an explanation of the former. I
wish to lay before the committee the exact state of the case
with regard to the charges, as far as we are able to state them,
that have now beer incurred with regayd to China ; because
on a former sccasion I fear I was in some degree to blame for
not having clearly explained them, and her Majesty's Go-
vernment are desirous that no misapprehension should exist.
In February last the provision made for the Chinese cape-
dition was £850,000., to be charged on the finances of theyear
then expiring, 1859-60, and a further sum of about double
that amount, namely X 1,700,000, to be charged on the ways
and means of the financial year then about to commence,
1860-61. These sums together amounted to £2,250,000. I
confine myself to round numbers for the convenience of
the committee, and that was the whole provision which it
was proposed to the house to make on account of the expe-
dition to China, whilst it was still an expedition only, and
before we had any knowledge that it would necessarily have
a directly warlike operation. The sum that is now further
proposed on account of the warlike operations of the same
expedition is a sum of somewhat greater amount, namely,
£2,850,000. The vote upon the table is indeed somewhat
larger than this; but two items are comprehended in the
figures I have just stated. They include a sum of £500,000, a
provision which was made in the financial arrangements of
February, though the vote of supply was only taken last
week, and also a sum of £lOO,OOO on account of the previous
war in China, which may be called the war of 1857, a charge
of which we had no km.wledge that it would occur in
February, and for which no financial provision has been made.
Therefore the whole charge of the present expedition to
China, arising from the occurrences at the mouth of the
Peiho down to the present period, so far as the Government
can state or conjecture them, is £5,400,000, to which is to be
added the sum of £150,000 :due to the former war. And
perhaps it may be a matter of interest to the committee that
I should state, in passing, the expense of a former war with
China,'in order that they may understand, along with other
matters applicable to the subject, the tendency to a great
increase of charge which is attendant upon the course of our
present operations. The war at 1840 must have lasted, I
think, between two and three years. I believe that Sir H.
Pottinger's treaty Nvas in 1842, so that the war would last
about two-andsa-lalf years ; and the whole expense of
that war chargeable to this country was no more than
43,200,000. So that the whole expense of that war,
carried en for the length of time I have described, was no
more than 4700,000 in excess of the sum which the Govern-
ment invited this house to provide for the present expedi-
tion, even while the occurrence of a war was a matter entirely
problematical. The whole expense of that war to this
country, because a portion of it was borne by the East India
Company, was only £1,200,000—a sum less by £1,200,000
than that which the house will have provided—has, I may
say, provided—at least consented to charge
during the pre-
sent session, on account of the war that has now commenced.
hat is the state of the ease as regards the amount of charge
on account of the present
expedition, and
0503500 on account of the war of 1867, making together ,