The Sun.
London, England, 1856-05-03 00:00:00

ABJURATION BILL.

Sir F. THESIGER asked when it was intended to
proceed with this bill ?
Mr. M. GIBSON said he could not tell the hon. gen-
tleman. If the noble lord at the head of the Government
would make it convenient to give him a day to proceed
with the bill, he would then tell the hon. member the
day the bill wou'd probably be proceeded with.
Lord PALMERSTO.N said he would communicate
with the hon. member, and fix a day for the bill as early
as possible after the recess.
THE BAND IN KENSINGTON GARDENS.
Lord R. GROSVENOR asked the First Lord of the
Treasury, whether, supposing any members of the bands
now ordered to play in the Parks on Sunday afternoon
should object to do so, either from con.cientious motives,
or from a desire to enjoy their Sunday holiday, they
would be released from such duty ?
Sir DE L. EVANS said he thought the noble lord '
had not considered the subject, or he would not have
asked the question. He thought it would have beerr,
better if the noble lord had left this to the Commander-
in.Chief, because it was making a precedent for soldiers
to be excused from important duties which they were
required to perform o❑ Sundays, and thereby interfere I
with the order and discipline of the army. He hoped
the Government would not give any answer to the ques-
tion.

Sir J. TROLLOPE, on the part of the Colonel of the
23 Life Guards, explained that the band of his regiment
played in the Garden on Sundays, in accordance with
orders from the authorities.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD protested against the
members of the band being called on to play on Sundays,
which was no part of their military duties. It should be
borne in mind that colonels of regiments might have
conscientious convictions against the practice, and then
it would clash with military authority and interfere with
good discipline, because, when an order was
issued for a c ilonel to send his band to perform
at a certain place he was not compelled to
send the instruments, which were the exclusive
property of the officers of the regiment. He condemned
the practice of the band playing on Sundays in the
public parks, because it destroyed the calla and quiet
enjoyment of the people resorting to these parks for
health and recreation, and created a nuisance in its
stead. (Cries of " no, no.")
Mr. ()TWAY said the objection of the noble lord
with reference, to the power of colonels of regiments to
withhold the instruments to the bands of regimentF,
might be got over by the Government providing them.
(Rear, hear.) He thought the sympathy of the noble
lord with regard to the compulsory attendance of the
members of the bands in the parks was misplaced, be-
cause he had no objection to the park keepers attend-
ing on Sunday that he 'and his friends might enjoy re-
tired and quiet recreation there on a Sunday. He (Mr.
Otway) was gratified to find so many of the inhabitants
of London attended the gardens on a Sunda
and hoped they would soon be doubled ; and
on their behalf he thanked the right hon. Bart. (Sir B.
Hall) for affording them this harmless and recreative
amusement on Sundays.
Mr. WIGRAM was in favour of the bands playing in
the gardens on Sunday.
M.r..A.PDERLEY said there was a constitutional
uestion at issue here whether a Minister of
rown was empowered to contravene a recent vote of
that house with reference to Sunday amusements.

(Hear, bear.) He alluded to the recent vote of the
house with reference to opening the Museum, &c., on
Sunday. It was very easy to congregate a rabble, but
he was convinced the middle and respectable classes
of England were averse to these spectacles on a
Sunday. (Hear.)
Mr. DRUMMOND said the tendency of late had
been to deprive the people of recreation, and it was the
duty of the house to consider whether it was desirable
to continue that line of policy.
Sir B. HALL said that he bad not contravened the
decisions of the Hou?e of Commons by ordering the band
to Play in the Parks, because it did not trench on
the principle then under discussion. He was only
following out what ho did last year, and
.which was
approved of by the people. The same objections
were taken to the opening of Hampton Court Palace
and Kew Gardens on Sundays as was now done
to the band playing on Sundays in the Parka,
but since they bad been opened the former had
been attended by 20,000, and the latter by 14,000 or
15,000 persons on a Sunday, and he doubted if any
gentleman would venture to rise in that house to pro-
pose iLnildiscontinuance. (Rear,lhear.) So far from the
assemblage of these persons in the parks on Sun- ,
day being a nuisance, he looked on it with dif-
ferent feelings, and felt much pleasure on Sunday
last at seeing so many respectable people assembled
there, and evidently rationally enjoying themselver.
(Hear, hear.) He could not believe that those
who assembled there on Sundays were actuated

by any irreligious feelings, or with a wish to
desecrate that day which had been set apart for better
purposes. (Hear, hear.) He thought, however, that
the tinse had not arrived when the people should be
deprived of innocent Sunday recreation. (Hear.)
Mr. WALPOLE was opposed to a puritanical obser-
vance of the Sabbath, and also to the intro-
duction of new customs, and the Continental
principle of Sunday amusements. The observance of
that day should be left to the consciences of the people,
and not interfered with by the Civil Government,
and there could be no doubt that the course now
pursued by the Government was objectionable
to a large number of the people of this country.
(Hear.) He thought the Government should have first
obtained the consent of the house to this innovation.
Col. NORTH said the question of the noble lord
was likely to have an effect on military discipline, for it
sanctioned it would be difficult by and by to distin-
guish between what was duty and what interfered with
a soldiers' conscientious feelings.
Lord PALMERSTON concurred in what had fallen
from Sir De Lacy Evans, that it would be indiscreet
of this house to interfere with the military authorities
in enforcing military discipline. The question the noble
lord had put to the Government was one with reference
to military discipline, and he (Lord Palmerston) declined
to enter into it. If any responsibility was attached to
the right. hon. baronet (Sir B. Hall) for what he bad
done, it attached also to him (Lord Palmerston),
for the right honourable baronet consulted him
first on it, and he entirely concurred in his proposi-
tion. (Cheers.) This was not a course in opposi-
tion to the resolution adopted a short time since by
the house, neither was it a new thing. The band
used formerly to play on Sundays in the Park, and the
custom bad been followed at Windsor Castle ever since
the time of George 111. He (Lord Palmerston) con-
sidered that the people of the metropolis ought to
have some recreation provided for them, and the fact
of great numbers assembling in the Parks on Sun-
days, to the exclusion of the few, it showed
that this was a wise and proper application of the public
money. (Cheers.) It was no desecration of the Sab
bath to enjoy intellectual amusement combined with
healthful recreation. (Cheers.)
The subject then dropped.
EDUCATION.

Mr. EWART inquired of the First Lord of the Trea
sury whether it was the intention of the Government,
on going into committee on the education estimates this
year, to cause a statement to be made by a Minister of
the Crown of the progress and prospects of education,
and of institutions connected therewith, in conformity
with the understanding entered into and partly carried
into execution in former years ?
Sir G. GREY replied that last year, as well as the
preceding year, a statement bad been made as to the
effect of the grants of the Privy Council in the promo-
tion of education ; and this year a much more detailed
statement as to the appropriation of those grant.] would
be made. Any further information or explanations that
were necessary be should be happy to give when the
estimates came before the house.
DISEMBODIMENT OF THE MILITIA.

Colonel DUNNE asked the Under Secretary for
War whether the allowance usually granted to troops in
the field had been allowed to a foreign legion in the
British service, but refused to regiments of the line ?
Captain STUART inquired whether the extra field
allowance to the officers and men in the Crimea would
be extended to some period after they had left it ?
Colonel GREVILLE understood that it was the in-
tention of the Government to disembody and send home
both the English and Irish militia regiments to their
various counties in a very short period. He confessed
that he looked upon such a measure with considerable
apprehension. Many thousands of men would thus
be thrown upon the country, without any provision
whatever being made for them, or their having any
means of existence. Many of the men were labourers,
and at the present moment there was a great scarcity of
employment. All the spring work was over, and the
summer not begun. He begged to ask whether the
Government would not consent to disembody them by
degrees ? Their conduct ever since the breaking out
of the war had been deserving of all admiration, as had
been stated by the noble lord at the head of her Ma-
jesty's Government. He thought, therefore, that they
merited some consideration at their hands, and he was
sure that by taking the course ho had suggested they
would be supported by the approbation of the country.
Col. FRENCH hoped that if a disembodiment was to
take place some distinction would be made between the
English and the Irish regiments. The English militia
had now been embodied four years, but the Irish only
one. As the greatest portion of the expense of the subal-
tern officers accrued in the first year of their service, the
immediate disembodiment of the regiments would inflict
considerable loss upon them, because every shilling they
had hitherto received for their pay had been expended
in their outfit. Me trasted, therefore, that her Majesty's
Government would consider they had a claim to remain
embodied at least as long as the English militia regi-
ments had been.

Mr. PEEL, in reply, said that the question upon
the paper (Col. Dunne's) was not sufficiently explicit
to enable him to know to what regiments he referred.
With regard to the field allowance for the troops in the
Crimea that was granted expressly for the term during
which the troops remained in the field, and of course
when they returned that allowance would cease. The
Irish militia regiments would be disembodied at the
same time as the English, but the question with respect
to the allowance to the subaltern officers and the loss
they had sustained in consequence of their not remain-
ing so long in the service as they desired, was under
the consideration of Goverment.
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS.

In reply to Mr. PACKE,
Mr. LOWE said that the Government would not be
prepared with a bill on this subject before the Whitsun-
tide holidays. _

THE BUDGET.

Mr. GLYN asked whether the right hon. gentleman
the Chancellor of the Exchequer could name the day
when it would be in his power to make his financial
statement to the house ?
Tee CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It
might possibly be in my power to make my financial
statement before Whitsuntide, but the house is aware
that the calculation of the amended ways and means
cannot be made until all the estimates of the year are
completed and laid on the table. The amendment of the
estimates since the peace has been signed has oceupit d
more time than I anticipated ; those, however, of the
War Department have been completed, sent to the Trea-
sury, and approved, and they will shortly be laid on the
table. In fact, the entire estimates are ready, except
one portion, which will be presented in a few days. The
whole time of Parliament up to the Whitsuntide holidays
being occupied, and it being inconvenient to fix Friday,
the 16th, the day on which the house will resume busi-
ness, I propose to bring forward my financial statement
on the following Monday night.
The motion for the adjournment of the house till Mon-
day next was then agreed to.
RECRUITING IN THE UNITED STATES.
Lord PALMERSTON brought up the papers and
correspondence realtive to recruiting under the Foreign
Enlistment Act in the United States.
Ordered to be laid upon the table.
POLICE (COUNTIES AND BOROUGHS) BILL.
The house then went into committee upon this bill.
Upon clause 3, which empowers the Secretary of State
to settle the terms of amalgamation between counties
and boroughs in certain cases,
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that ho was very much dis-
posed to move that this clause be omitted, but would
wait until the right hon. baronet (Sir G. Grey) had stated
its precise object. The opposition which the bill had
encountered arose principally from the power of inter-
ference which it would give to the Secretary of State.
In this clause he was empowered to interfere when a
county refused to amalgamate with a borough at its re-
Teest. He wished to know whether the right hon. baro-
net ever heard of a case in which a borough had desired
to be amalgamated with a county for police purposes,
and the county had declined ?'He believed the facts were
quite in the opposite direction, and that in almost all
cases counties desired amalgamation with boroughs, but
that it was the boroughs which declined.
Sir G. GREY observed that great objections had been
raised to a compulsory consolidation, while at the same
time the Government were of opinion, strengthened by
opinions from various quarters, that an efficient police
system could not he maintained in a borough with a
small population. Where the population did not amount
to 5,000 boroughs were excluded from the benefit ot the
Governmentgrant ; most of them were below that number
and in a great many there were not more than from 2 to
4 policemen. Such boroughs might desire to amalgamate
with counties, and although he could not namean instance
in which a county had declined to amalgamate, hitherto
boroughs had shown a great disinclination to do so, and
such a case might happen. The present clause gave the
Secretary of State power, in case an application made
by a borough to amalgamate with a county were refused,
to settle the terms of such consolidation. The clause
was entirely in the interest of the boroughs.
Lord LOVAINE thought that the clause would be
inoperative; but as such cases as that referred to might
arise he should give it his support.
Sir J. PAKINGTON pressed the withdrawal of the
3d and 13th clauses.
Sir G. GREY said' that on the 13th clause the ques-
draTwhne.
t..en would more properly arise ; and if the committee
disapproved of that clause the present would he with-
clause was then agreed to.
On clause 4, enabling
HE
boroughs,
tice the county constables to act in
Y
adrorual
suggested dispensing with the prac-
Lord LOVAMr. of " backi NLEnINE
if the clause might not
lead boroughs to rely on ttittea
The clause was agreed to,
e county
On clausep
5,
Mr. iRLEY objected to the insufficient imita-
tion of the powers and duties of the police
Sir J. PAKINGTON thought the limitation already
sufliciently stringent.
Mr. B. DENISON moved the omission of the proviso.
Mr. HENLEY thought the words had better be
omitted.
Sir G. GREY suggested that the words should run—
" Such duties as the justices may lawfully require them
to perform.'
Mr. BENTINCK and Sir W. HEATHCOTE pressed
the omission of Cho words in question.
Sir J. PAKINGTON thought it better to retain the
words is the clause as it stood, in order to prevent
duties being improperly oast upon the police.
Sir G. GREY thought it better to retain the words.
They would not limit 'the duties of the police inconve-
niently, and the police would still be able to attend to
such duties as the relief of vagrants.
rLord EBRINGTON said the law adviser of the Poo-