The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-14 00:00:00

THE SUN, LO DON, FRIDAy_EyENING, MARCH 14

efficient as he himself had been. If I am not mistaken, I
here heard the gallant officer say in early youth that he
woul I neyer think of going to sea after he was 60 years of
age. That was in couversation, but when I first went to the
Admiralty the hon. and gallant officer was so good as to ex-
tend to me his advice, I hat altno,t wild his " tuition," in
the important offiee to which I' was raised unexpectedly in
18A.,.and great with the pen as well as with the swoniathe
bon. and gallant officer has published frequently and largely.
I hold in my hand a book waters by the gallant officer with
the high.saunding title of "The Navy," which contains
a series of letters written by Admiral Sir C. Napier, and
e litod by the higheet literary authority, his relative, Ma-
jor-General Sir W. Napier, to various First Lmals f the
A Imiralty, including Lsrd Melbourne, the Duke of Clal
ranee, Lord Althorpe, myself— an. humble individna-
among such eonips,ny—tlinEarl of Minto, Lord J. Russell,
the E al of Ellenborough, Lori Palmerston, Sir R. Peel,
and though last,-not least, the Editcr of the 7irars. Now,
this is in 1811. It i no private commuuication, no docu-
ment of doubtful authority, uncertain in its use, and not
deliberately given to the public, but it is a letter addressed
to myself on May 17, 1131, and the gallant Admiral say
Rely uponit, sir, that the generality of men of 6) years of
ago are net fit for captains; as admirals, there is greater
scope for tho mind, and the signal for exercise will show him
what ship are in order avid What are not. But most men of
that age are too old for dash mid enterprise. Lord Nelson
fought the battle of the Nile at 39, Copenhagen at 42, and
was-killed at 47. Had he been 70, you woala probably net
have heard of either one or the other. When a man's body
begins to shake,• the mind follows, and he is always the last
to find it out. (A. laugh.)
That was written by the hon. and gallant officer in the
vigour of comparative youth and. in a time of las ice ; but
now time a trances, and what continues to be the opinion of
the hors, and gallant officer? Here is a letter to the late
Mr. Hume, dated the 23th of February, 1537 He repeats
the proposition which he offered to me as to Nelson :
Fought the battle of the Nile at 39, Copenhagen at 41, and
was killed at 47. Had he not been an admiral till 69, I much
doubt whether you would have either heard of the battle of
the Nile or Copenhagen ; and the battle of rafalgar, most
certainly, would not have been fought in the manner it was.
(" Hoar, hear," from Sir C. Napier.) Will the hon. and
gallant gentleman say. "hear, hear" to-the next passage?
There i- a great difference between the command of a fleet
and a seat in the House of Commons. (Laughter.) A man of
6) may talk to the house for two or three hours—(laughter)—
though exposed to the wit, the sarcasm, and the yawns of
his 'opponents, and still preserve his nerve and power of ora-
tory much beyond that ago. -
(A laugh.) Then c •mes ;in allusion to trying circumstances
which aro all foreseen by the hoe, and gallant officer
But an admiral, in command of a fleet, has not only his
enemy to look after, but he has charge of that fleet among
rocks, shoals, lee-shores, storms, aid tempests; au t it re-
quires youth and health to support him in all his difficulties.
(Hear, hoar ) But it does not stop hero. As time ad-
vances the hon. and gallant offical addresses his opinioaa
to the Naval Commission appoinelfd in. 1339. Full of honest
zeal for the.service the Duke of Wellington presided over
that commission, and the hon: and gallant officer addresses
a letter to the secretary. He says this of Lord Nelson—
that bright example rightly cherished in the recollection of
every naval otfieer and. every grateful Englishman :
Lord Nelson fought the battle of the Nile at 39, Copen-

_ .
was that signal made? It was made on the day when
declaration of war arrived, and with the permission of the
hon se I will read the words of the signal. 'lt ran theft :
" leads, war is declared, with a bold and numerous enemy
to meet. Should they offer us battle, you know how to dis-
pose of them ; should they. remain in port, we must try and
get at them. Success depends on the quickness and prod-
sion of your. fire. Also, lads, sharpen your cutlasses, and the
day's yeeir owe "
Now, contrast that signal with the signal of the greet model
of the navy—fto regarded by the hon. and pliant officer
himself and so regarded by his fellow-countrymen ; contrast
that signal with Nelson's signal on the morning of the battle
of Trafalgar, " _Enel Led expects that every man will do his
duty,"—that memorable signal which has become house-
hold words-4he exhortation of every British parent who
sends forth his son into the werld.no mat ter what his avoca-
tion may be. Contrast that sigrkal with the signal made by
the hope and gallant admiral, and then you will have the
measure of the difference between Nelson and the great
hero of the Baltic. I think that was a signal which led
the fleet to expect a most daring enterprise—that oven
skulking behind fortresses under cover of strong batteries
would be of no avail to the enemy ; they were to be led to
the
.attack, they were to sharpen their cutlasses, end ha
premised the day sheula be their own. I can only tell the
hen. anti gallant officer that me, political cowardice was
such that I was alarmed at his signal. I feared come very
rush undertaking was a,b int to commence, and I thought
it prudent to tell the gallant admiral that we did not wish
or iu tend to send hint •on any deiperate service, and I
thortgut it my euty to restrain his honest zeal. That was
only the fcommeuce an; t of the Bettie campaign. reis
b..; egs rue to the hon. and gallant officer's despatch, dated
May 30, fa om Hew Read, in which ho says that he
trunks, upon reference to the plans, that Sweaborg is un-
attackable titter by laud or sea. The hen. and gallant
officer told the house to remember dates. I also beg the
Iroise to rernembn r date.. Tbis report is dated May 30.
Now, the house will remember the hon. and gallant officer
read a part of a direction from the Admiralty in the au-
tumn of lest, wh.n the matter was brought in questien,
in which ho was reeueste 1 to report to the Admiralty
when he should have made a personal reconnaissance of
Sweeborien what was the ship in which it was made. and
on eh tt 'day it was made, and what was the nature of the
reconnaissance. The bon. and gallant officer did not read
the answer in full, le. t he will exceee me for saying he has
evaded that answer altogether. Ire admits that on the
30th of May, when Ito made that report, ho had not been
neater than eight miles.
Sir C. NAPIER—I had not been there at all.
Sir J. GRAHA.M-- Ex ,ctly cc. The hon. and gallant
officer said on the 30th of May that Sweeborg was neat-
tackaide by sea or by land—he being within eight miles of
the place, and not having gone close in to reconnoitre.
Sir C. NAPIER.—I was' not within 100 codes of it.
Sir J. GRAHAM- The gallant officer was distinctly asked
by the Board of Admire ty whether he had been close to Swea-
borg on the 3.th of May.
Sir (1. NAPlER—Because I had got the gout. -
Sir J. GRAHAM—Ties is what he states on the 13th of
November :—" I beg to acquaint their lordships when the
port and works of Sweaborg were inspected by me. I beg to
inform them I anchored off Sweaborg on the 12th of June,
close to the outer shoals, about eight miles eft All the bea-
cons were removed, and it was impossible to approach nearer.
I sent in the master of the fleet and two steamers to search

hageu at 41, and Trafalgar at 47 ; many men of his age
would have done the same thing ; but I doubt whether Lord
Nelson himself, between 64 and 7(1, would have attempted
either the Nile or Copenhagen; and most efjrtainly, at that
time of life, 'he would not have fought the battle of
Trafalgar in the way he did. tie died at 47, leaving a

for a passage. I intended to infirm myself the next day by
a farther examination, but the French fleet appeared, and I
proceeded to join them"—not after a personal reconnaissance,
but with the plans and charts of Sweaborg in his hands.
[Sir G. NAPIER,--" No such thing."] I quote the words of the
_

jlon. and gallant admiral. It iifo'r liim'to contradict if lam

.
aentosaed.mit that ?
brilliant example to folio. , but which example will never be wrong in saying that he never closely reconnoitred Sweaborg
followed by one man in a hundred, unless ho has youth on until the '4ll of September. ("Hear," from Sir C. Naples.)
Doessir tch.eNhAonp.iaEund_gayl:ease. t gentleman
his side." •
(Cheer's) These were very solemn warnings, and from my •
early acquaintance with she hon. and gallant gentleman,
liado n the
as 13thhoofaiJdune on , gtohnee
23ind oafndSe rapat., eina a company personal
Sic J. GRAHASSI—WeII, then, if the hon. and gallant offi-
before the dose of the French revolutionary war, I was car
aware, by contrasting his age with my own, that he had reconnaissance,
passed the awful limit of 60 years, so dangerous to the pub• with General Jones, and had made in May that report to the
lie service. (Laughter.) But if the doubt of what, fur Admiralty. which he did make on the 24th of Sept., it would
the public service, it was prudent to do had not arisen, have been quite possible for the Admiralty in the course of
there was in this very book a letter to another First Lord that summer, or before the close of the autumn, to send out
of the Admiralty, having,o, personal bearing on the appoint- all the appliances which ho Might have deemed to be requi-
snout of the hoe. and gallant officer. In a letter to Lord site. (Hear.) I ascribe the whole difference which has arisen
Minto, dated March, 1837, he says :• between the hon. and gallant officer and the Board of Admi-
A man made an admiral at 40, ie constant employment, ralty to his neglect in not snaking a personal reconnaissance of
with good health, good nerves, and Of an active, enterprising Sweaborg until so late a period as Sept. 24. That brings me to
character, may hold good till 64 or upwards ; but a man whoanother 't. The hand gallant office h
.
imputeancien said that therhas thought fit
has been on shore for a considerable number of years, unac toa imputeof motives, . has . change of views on
caste:nod to cammencl, must have his nerves so much relaxed s've
.p.ar the Admiralty with respect to ass attack upon
that it is quite impossible he can command a fleet with the by the l, caoorg wits caused delusivef expectations which
energy thit is necessary at the commencement of a war ~ he hweelfiekle.asidsea(ties'y the
General falsereloarotsef the altl of Sebastopol. Now,
may do well enough in peace, but war is quite another thing,
Aralt oUSept. 4, ncloeseds without e r was
receivedn officialat the
and war will surprise us one day or other ; and, depend upon
letter fromY the hon. andgallant admiral. comment
in
a
it, my lord, if we moot with reverses, there will be such a
dated August 29, the reconnaissance having taken place on the
flame lit up throughout tfie country that the Lord have
23d, and the plans of attack bore date August 25. The Go-
mercy on the first Lord of the Admiralty for the time being.
vernment had selected Sir H. Jones to go out as a military
(Laughter.) I think the house will agree with me, after assistant to the hon. and gallant officer in the various opera-
what I have read of the solemn warnings administered to tions which were expected to take place, he being an officer
myself, to the Military Commission, and to First Lords of
of the highest merit and experience, and one upon whose
the Admiralty in times of peace, tleet wo were justified in , opinion the utmost reliance could be placed. That gallant
hesitating before we recommended' our colleagues to give officer having closely reconnoitred Sweaborg on the 29th of
the hon. and gallant officer the appointment. But, sir, An.
eust—a duty which the lion. and gallant gentleman op-
these difficulties having been ono by one overcome, I had to posits, although he was the naval commander-in-chief, ap-
consider, in co mart with the hon. and gallant officer, when pears up to that time to have altogether omitted—expressed
appointed to the command, the objections he had taken to the strongest possible opinion that a plan which he described
the manning of the fleet. The hen. and gallant officer, with in detail, but which lam sure the house will not expect me
laudableforesight and prudence, thought that a Russian fleet to repeat—a plan for a combined operation of sea and laud
of 28 sail of the line was a force not to be despised. Whoa forces to the extent of 5,000 men—would ho felt confident
present to enter the Baltic with 12 sail of the line anal a large lead to success, and that in seven,daye. That report was re-
number of screws, though the Russians had no screw ships, ceivod on the 4th of September. and I regarded it as being of
he more than once represented that the force was limit°. so much importance that, on the 9th of that month, after the
quate. He stated that the fleet wis very ill-mauned. Now Cabinet had been consulted on the subject, I ordered it to be
sir, Ido not deny that the hon. anal gallant officer praised referred to a council of war. Marshal Baraguay d'Hilliers
upon me, in the interviews to which I have referred, the and General Niel, two of the most distinguished officers in
propriety of issuing a proclaneetion based upon an Act of the French service, had, unlike the gallant admiral opposite,
Parliam ant which I had the honour of introducing. But considered it their duty to make a close personal reconnais7
no such proclamation could have been isuied, with offer of ance of Sweaborg, and they came to a conclusion not quite
bounty on the one hand, without compulsory service on identical with that arrived at by General Jones—but to the
the other, if within the time limited sailors did not come conclusion that au attack made with sufficient-boldness, by
in. I was not prepared at the commencement of the war, naval means alone, without the no-operation of a military
before the necessity had been demon.trated, to urge the force, could be successful, and indeed that the fortress would
Government directly or. indirectly to sanction compulsory not hold out for more than two hours. That was the opinion
,services. I had the assistance of my right km. and gal- of two distinguished military officers after a close reconnais-
lant friend the First, Naval Lord of- the A,imiralty—as- sauce, arid in the absence of any naval reconnaissance, and upon
oistanee for which I can never be sufficiently grateful, and that opinion the Government, acting in perfect concert with
which, I think, constitutes a debt of gratitu le on the part the Government of France, ordered the matter to be referred
of the public. The exertions of my righthon. and gallant pto a council of war. It is said that the views of the Athni-
friend, which were unremitting, convinced me that if a ralty changed with the fluctuation of affairs in the Black
fair trial ware given, without a shade of compulsion, the Sea, and were influenced by a supposed success at Sebasto-
fleet would be manned. I resisted the proclamation. I pal, Now, the hon. and gallant admiral likes truth, and
resisted the offer of double bounty, intimately connected fortunately dates sometimes are useful in establishing the•
as it was with compulsory service,: The fears of the gallant truth,
; admiral were not realised. The hopes and expectations of Sir C. NAPIER.—Yes, when they are properly stated.
the Board of Admiralty were not disappointed, and my Sir J. GRAHA.M.—The opinion of Generals Baraguay
right hoe. and gallant friend succeeded in manning the d'Hilliers and Niel was received on the 11th of September,
British fleet in a time incredibly short. (Cheers) In pass- and on the 12th the order was sent to reconsider the whole
ing, I will say that I admit the wisdom of the objections question, and the hon. and gallant admiral was reminded in
which were taken early by the hon. and gallant officer to that despatch that the destruction of Sweaborg had alwaysbeen
the proclamation in question, and, feeling the force of regarded by her Majesty's Government as a matter of the
' those objections, in 101 I myself proposed a modification 1 utmost importance ever since the commencement of the war.
of it, to which the house was pleased to give its assent, Now, with regard to the views of the Government being
and the objectionable par:ion of the law is now altered. changed by events in the Crimea. Why, Sir, as I have said,
(Hear.) After the Baltic fleet was naeeed for the Baltic I
this order was sent en the 12th of September, and the British
service, the Royal Albert, a threenlecker, was in the yeas' army did not land in the Crimea until the 15th, and the
1851 named for service in the Black Sea. That ship Went battle of the Alma was not fought until the 20th of that
out as the flag-ship pf a gallant officer in no respect info- . month. Now; let us consider the question as regards the
rior, either in experience or judgment, to the hen• plan proposed by General Jones. General Jones writes :
and gallant admiral opposite—(hear)—fcom Sir C. I "After a careful reconnaissance, 'the only mode which
Napier) ; and I would propose tie the hon. and gallant appears to present itself with any prospect of success, is by
officer whether he means to say the Royal Albert, manned a heavy bombardment from a combined operation .by laud
by volunteers after the Baltic service was supplied, was and sea." (Here follows the plan,) " The above is merely
unfit for the service, or unfit to be sent into battle by a
, an outline of what is possible, practicable, and of easy axe.
British Board of Admiralty? (Rear, hear.) So touch for cation." "Should every thing prove favourable, the opera-
the objections to manning the fleet. (Cheers:) The next tion ought not to occupy more than seven or eight days."
point taken by the hen. and gallaut admiral was, that the " The close of the summer may, probably, be considare 1 the
ships were Refit to go into action. He has read part of his best time for bombarding Sweaborg, as the winter following
letters in which he made use of expressions more than close one the destruction of the public establishments and
once, that there were in the fleet under his command ships buildings would precinct, the possibility of repairing or re-
unfit to go into notion. The Beard of Admiralty called building them during a northern winter,"
upon hint as a point of duty to specify those ships—
"to On the 24th of September the gallant admiral was induced,
specify" whatworo the words use .-I in theletter addressed t )
him. How did he meet that request? He went off about by the representation of a military officer, to examiue the
mmo.
quested that a report of the state of the ships shoul
discipline bcine improval by exorcise. The Admiralty roe-
fortress himself for the first time, and General Jones apausing him, says, in the strongest manner, that lac—
d b
"Secs nothing to induce him to alter his opinion as to
returned to the Admiralty, pointing out such defects 3i
the nature of an attack, with a view to the destruction •of
were the subject of complaint, and he gives as an excuse)
and tstablishments,"
for not sending home the list that it was not easily pre- the arsenal .
perol. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and gallant ot reports' of general officer do not
fleer talks in These repos o a
no. very acceptable to the gallant admiral, for afterwards, when
respectful terms of the captains under his Comma
o.
C 13,1. Jones, who lied taken part in the operations against
genmous as to read to the b
Though I have that correepondence, I will not be's°. LienSe and give to the public the
Bomarsund, requested the gallant admiral to allow him a 1
creamer to reconnoitre Cronstadt—and a more modest re-
confidential comiuunications made by the gallant admire.
nest could not have been made—he was peremptorily; re-
really at the top of the list, in which he declared, giving
with respect to the cer:filet of several captains, some. q
fused, and upon that refusal Gen. Jones asked for pormis-
,
sion to return to England. All this, however, is merely in
their names, that he thought them unfit for their com-
Passing, and I wish now to say a word or two about Bomar-
mends, and that it was hopeless for them to try to amend;
' rsund. Do I rightly understand the lion, and gallant admi-
and in which he proposed to me that ho should be at liberty
: ral when I believe him to say that he did not wish for the
to make signal, in presence of the,whcilo fleet, " Go home! ;
' assistance of any military force in attacking Bomarsund ?
You are no use to use hero." I reaisted so harsh a measure. i
Sir C. NAPIER—That is what I did say. e
(Cheers.) I have the letters here. I will not he so ungeneir .
1 Sir J. GRAHAM—I should be sorry to read any private
one as to produce them. If telid produce them they would
letters addressed to me by the hon. and gallant gentleman
create a degree of illwill ag•iinst,the hon. and gallant mem- .
without his permission.
her such as I am sure *he could not confront. (Rear) i
' Sir O. NAPIER—You are perfectly at liberty to reed any
I will not betray names. It was a confidential communica-
tion to me. It is very easy now to say that the captni
SirJ. GRAIIAM—Very well; I will, then, read two ex-
were first rate officers. The private communications
' tracts from letters addressed to me by the gallant admiral.
to me respecting these first rate officers bear ite an-
The house will bear in mind that the gatlaut admiral now
ether interpretation and I state positively that, whatevert
states that he did not require the co-oporation of a laud
the hots, and gallant member may now find it conversion
force
to say in public, those were not tho representations which at Bomarsund. Now, on the nth of Juno, 1854, he
he made to me in private. (Cheers.) I stated to him that writes to me : .
i,
the Aland Islands. I would support his authority to the utmost, but I was "I have anticipate, you about
Sulli-
not prepared to sanction the ships being sent home-- the van has made a complete survey of them, and been up to
ships and crews being efficient. I stated that if he would Bomarsund, which ho . finds very strong, but requiring a
gravely and specially report to the board that he thought large land force to attack it." " There is' a large harbour,
certain captains should be superseded, I had so much r-- quite land locked, where the whole fleet could anchor; but
Hance upon his justice and authority that his wishes shot Id there is not room alongside the batterieS for ships enough
be met, but it must bo by superseding the officers and not to attack it without a laud force. If Sweden would come
by sending the ships and crews home. (Cheers) Now, forward it would be different; or if yea can send a land
sir, another point made by the hon. and gallant member force of 10,000 men it could be done."
was, that there were no pilots on board the fleet'. I am (Hear.) Thnt was on the 10th of June, and the gallant ad-
speaking from a recollection, perhaps, not 130 perfect as of miral evidently considered the subject more deeply, and on
those who have more ready access to official documents, the'l2th he again writes :
but I think my right hon. and gallant friend, who was my i
" Capt. Sullivan returned after having made a complete
colleague, will confirm me that, great exertions were made.
[
survey of Somarsund, which he reports as very strong. He
Sir C. NAPIER —" I .4iii sail Tho best pilots, and those e
was well received on the islands by the inhabitants. By all
best acquainted with the navigation of the Baltic, were'
acdounts the garrison consists of 2,200 men. It is a solid
sought out by the Admiralty long before the war was do-
granite work of two tiers of guns, supported by three round
dared. [Sir C. NAPIER—" I said so."] I am glad the
towers, and he does not think there would be water enough
hon. and gallant officer makes that admission. I thought
for large ships, and not room enough for such a force as would
he said there were no pilots competent to lead the fleet to
be adequate to reduce it; but a land force could bo sent to
its scene of action. • . • - ! great advantage, supported by the ships, and there is a secure
Sir C. NAPIER—I 'said that, when we arrived at the
harbour which would hold all the fleet. If 10,030 men could
Gulfs, the greater part of the pilots wanted to go home,
I be spared I think it might be reduced, which would be a great
and did go home. There were only eight left, and' we I triumph, but no time should be lost."
found theta good for nothing.,. I say so still.
- ' (Hear.) ;stow, in consequence of that letter of the gallant ad-
Sir J. GRAHAIII—The hon. and gallant officer referred
miral, more than 10,000 men were sent in order to render
to a particular ship, the Monarch. Now, en board the 1110-
,
success in the attack upon Bomarsund certain, as the gallant
narch was a person who had made 60 voyages between Hull
admiral expressed the opinion that an attack might succeed
and Croustedt, and who had for four years been Master of a
if supported by 10,000 troops. Now, sir, disputes like this,
steamer plying between Cronstadt and Sweaborg. In adds- between British admirals and British generals with reference
Von to that, in the month of Febniary or March, the
to attacke upon forts, I am sorry to say, have taken place
moment the Billie was open, a steamer of war was fitted
before, and the present is not the first occasion upon which a
--' el of Admiralty, and communications made
out by the Doer British admiral has abused a military colleague. I will just
to the Trinity-houses of London and of Hull—a preCaution
read to the house a passage from modern history, which
• e—and
in the former history of the naval service—anal
unexampledVshows what was the nature of the quarrel which took place
by those
about 20 most experienced masters recommended between Admiral Vernon V • and General Wentworth, on the oc-
t through
Trinity-houses were sent through the Cattega ,
fk.
casion of the siege of Carthagena. Lord Stanhope, in writing
the Sound, into the Baltic, for the very purposdnoo Tao ittiiige
of Admiral Vernon, 'says :
themselves masters of the navigation. I
for giro
able "He became a great favourite with the multitude, who
hon.. and gallant officer the highest credit
were, like himself, impatient for peace, and prone to consider
very
manner in which he led a numerous fleet of ships of
great draught of water through the Great Belt into the the noisiest patriot the most sincere. On the breaking out of
1 the war he wae appointed an admiral and commauder of the
Baltic, a most difficult operation. I ascribe—not ex
credit for West Indian squadron by the very minister whom he had as-
at sely, for I am disposed to give him the utmost creaol
sailed, from the same concession of popular clamour which had
his skill and ability on that occasion—but I ascribe
ofatrgoe
e produced the war itself. Ho was undoubtedly a good officer,
portion of that success to the ability and knowledge. •
1 •• so far as courage, enterprise, and experience can constitute
pilots who were placed on board his ships. Now.siro,,
that character ; buti he was harsh and haughty to his inferiors,
have been blamed for recommending caution to the. h. • •
untoward with his equals, mutinous and railing to all placed
and gallant officer, and he, rather taunts um with •having .
above him in authority."
restrained his ardour when he first went into the Baltic,
although he also charges me with goading him on as winter • (Laughter.) The character given of him by Horace Walpole is
alTroached. (" Hear," from Sir C. Napier.) Allusion 1 that be was an unwise, brawling admiral, whose reputation
has been made to an important circumstance by the.
his andwhose -
hon. wrs greater than courage,
and gallant officer who unwillingly seconded the motion— greater .
than his skill. Unfortunately these quarrels be_
and Ido not know whether he withdraws his support, for two.andnot f •
en admirals generals are un i e pent in the
he seconded it undara misapprehension ; but he reprobates , . . . military and naval annals of the country. But leaving these
the signal made by the gallant admiral to his fleet, When i hleterle.l recollections, I COMO now to A moot point —mooted
- - --

again -to-night by the hon. nod gallant member for Christ-
church (Admiral Walcot)—of whether stone walls are or are
rot really assailable by ships ? Now, the bright example of
the Agamemnon, in the attack upon Fort Constantine leads
me to think that, with skill and great courage, it is possible,
under special circumstances, to attack stone walls- and for-
tresses a ith ships, though it is a perilous operation. I am
left, however, in perfect uncertainty as to what is the delibe-
rate opinion of the hop. and gallant officer (Sir C. Napier) on
this subject. Writing on the Bth of Januaryin the present
year a letter to the Ti 72248, from which I have already
quoted—
Sir C. NAPIER—I wrote no letter of that date.
Sir J. GRAHAM—The hen, and gallant officer's memory is
very treacherous as to what has occurred lately. (Laughter.)
This letter was written on the Bth ofJanuary,lBs6, and pub-
lished in the Tinto on the 10th of that month. [Sir C. NAPIER
—" Oh, yes ; I remember."l The hon. and gallant officer
said ho did not write a letter of that date; but a little reflec-
tion has taught him that ho is wrong. This letter enters
fully into the question Rs to the attack on stone walls by
ships, and here is the result of his long experience=not, re-
member, contained in a speech, but in a letter deliberately
written. He says :—" I served 15 years last war, and it never
was the custom for ships to approach batteries at all." That
is the /assertion in the letter. Now I think my noble friend
at the head of the Government is somewhat under a misap-
prehension with reference to the advice given by the lion.
and gallant officer as to the attack on Acro. thave heard it
said that successful attack was owing to the advice given by
the gallant officer. Now,, on inquiry, lam assured, that the
reverse is exactly true —("hear," and laughter)—that the gal-
lant officer counselled Admiral Stopford not to attack. Acre,
and upon the very grounds 'stated in his letter to the Times
that he had served 15 years .last war, " and it was never
the custom for ships to approach batteries at all." (Hear.)
Now, the hon, and gallant officer is a great writer. I have
read seine of his letters published in a large volume, bat be
has published two volumes on the Syrian war and the attack
on Acre ; and in that history, vol i., p. 213—(a laugh)—
where he endeavours to engross to himself n largo portion of
the praise due to that gallant exploit,. I find the following
passage. Will the house remember that on the Bth of January
he says it was never the custom in the last war for ships to
appr )ach batteries at all, and. then listen to the following ex-
tract ?

" I had frequently been engaged with batteries last war—
(laughter) —and, I believe, was the only officer in the squadron
who had ever commanded a ship in action against stone walls
--(renewed laughter)—and the system I followed_rYon see,
he seemed to have had a regular system of attaeking stone
walls with ships —" the system I followed] was the one I had
always been accustomed to. It was the plan followed by the
leading ship at the battle of the Nile ; and I am not aware
that Lord Nelson found fault with Sir Samuel Hood for an-
choring abreast of the leading ship ; and if that is the tactics
to be followed in attacking a line of ships, it is certainly the
same that ought to be followed in attacking a line of stone
walls."
(Cheers and laughter.) Well, now, this is not all. I must re-
fer again to the volume from which I have already quoted, for
a letter addressed by the hon. and gallant officer to my noble
friend at the head of the Government, and in that letter the
hon. and gallant officer, in the year 1838, enters with great
ability upon the question of the attack of stone walls by ships.
Recollect that he had declared Sweaborg to be unattackable by
sea or 14nd. Now, I will read the whole letter :

"My dear Lord Palmerston.—l em very glad that it is
your intention to communicate my letter to your colleagues ;
since writing it, I observe the French are greatly strengthen-
ing their squadron in the Gulf of Mexico, and, from the nature
of their armament, there cannot be a doubt but they intend
attacking St. John do Ulloa. If they merely meant to block-
ade the Mexican ports, a Irigato and small craft are by far the
best description of force for that purpose ; but line-of-battle
ships and bombs [there is not much about gnn-boats herel
plainly indicate their inclination of attacking tho castle and
defences of Vera Cruz.

during peace,- ha only two.thirls of their complement, on
this occasion the ships were fully manned. He most dis-
tinctly charged the lion, and gallant adthiral (Sir C. Napicr)
with hiving' through want of firmness an I want of decision,
caused the delay in the attack on Croustadt. Acre,had been
referred.to ; but all the facts of the case showed that the
whole glory of that' trausactiou was due, not to the hon. aura
gallant admiral, but to an hon. and gallant admiral deceased
—Admiral StopfOrd. Bdt if anything could tend more to
lower the character of Sir Charles Napier (sic)—as a British
officer, it was this, that out of spite to the then First Lord of
the Admiralty and the Board of Admiralty, he had during a
war with Russia, and for the purpose of gaining a little popu-
larity with the multitude, stated that the Admiralty had -de-
prived the men of their just pay, and of all those indulgences
to which they were entitled. Such conduct was not only
unbecoming, but it was so bad, that if the hon. and gallant
admiral himself were in power, ho would have struck any
man off the list who 'had been guilty of it. The man who)
could so misconduct himself was not fit to govern others, nor
was any man fit to command'a fleet who did not know how
to obey those whose duty it was to command him. (Hear.)
Capt. SCOBELL cowed not sit to hear a man oppressed
by the three-deckers of the Admiralty, without, simple
tender as lie was, opening A gun in his defence. The gal-
lant officer had been taunte.:d with not bringing forward his
motion quickly. New lie had used all the diligence nossible
according to the forms of the house—he had• been unfortu-
nate in his ballotting, and was unable to bring forward his
motion earlier. He had been charged with reading private
letters, but the late First Lord had read really private letters,
while the gallant admiral had only read the letters of the
First Lord of the Aamiralty himself. The gallant admiral had
to that clay had his honour unquestioned ; it was not his fault
that ho was old ; if he was defiCient in nerve or limb why did
the Admiralty appoint him? (Cheers.) It quite stirred him
to find ail the life of such a man raked up and thus subjected
to scrutiny. As for the speech of the right hon. gentleman
below him (Sir C. Wood) it was taken up with the reasons
why he came to appoint the gallant admiral; it had nothing to
do with Sweaborg or Cronstadt. He did not find that the
army officers were criticised in the same way ; on the con-
trary, they were sheltered; army officers were defen led by
the Government, who did not shrink from falling foal of ono
of the most distinguished officers of the navy. °The amount
of the insinnatioas thrown out was that Sweaborg was
not taken in 1854. If so, why was it not taken in
1855, when the force was neech larger ? Mort irs,
guns, and, above all, screw steamers were furnished in
abundance, and yet seartely a shot was fired, and not one
from the large ships. Tho Admiralty had sent out in 1855
one of their own men, cognisant of their own plans, and yet
he had done far less than had bean done in 1854. The gal-
lant officer had been most unfairly treated. He had ar-
rived at the close of his career when every man's fame was
dear to him, and so his speech, of which the fault was being
too clever, and which drew attention too much away from
the point at issue, had been perverted and abused. He would
s my that the fleet in 1854, badly manned, as all new fleets must
be, had done more than thefle st in 1855. This bad manning of
the fleet was owing to the insufficient bounty, and he (Capt.
Scrawl') could not see why the same rule was not applied to
the blue jacicets that was applied to the red. As to the men"
of sft. 8, why these were not the men for the navy. Were
pressed men ever sft. 8 ? And ho should like to see which
would execute the best manceuvres—the long-legged sailors
or the short-legged ones. The question was, whether they
would examine the conduct of the fleet in 1854 and 1855, and
he hoped that, when peace was arrived, the committee
would. he granted, and that the gallant gentleman would
leave the house as an honourable untarnished Englishman.
Mr. MUNTZ remembered to have heard from the right
hon., gentleman below him (Sir C. Wood) that everything had
been going on in the Baltic as well as it was possible to go
oh, and that everything had been done that it was possible
to do. But now it appeared that the gallant admiral wee
charged with neglecting his duty. He left it to the house and
the right hon. gentleman to reconcile his first opinion with
the charges he now brought forward.
Mr. LINDSAY said that the charge was that, on the
order of the 4th October, the gallant admiral had neglected
to attack Sweaborg. Now, it was precisely on the 4th of
October that the false intelligence of tno fall of Sebastopol
reached this country, and he could conceive that the Ad-
miralty, flushed with the supposed success, had issued orders
which, if the gallant admiral had followed, would have been
at the loss of every ship under his command. Had the gal-
lant admiral acted on those orders he would in all probability
have destroyed the English fleet. The right hon. baronet in
making these attacks on the gallant admiral's conduct in the
Baltic appeared to forget that in censuring him he also cen-
sured our -Allies. It occurred to him (Mr. Lindsay) there
was something wrong in the administration of Milan at the
Admiralty, as exemplified by the contrary orders issued with
reference to the gallant admiral's leaving Hinge Sound.
Mr. MALINS felt great pain at the course adopted by the

" I have been twice there, and am quite certain, if they
attack with [with what? why, with] bolinees, they will take
it. Many naval officers will disagree with me, but few know
what ships can do, whoa well placed, against stone walls—
(laughter)—Algiers for example.
" Nobody though+ the French would have forced the Tagus
because Sir Charles Cotton did not do it after the battle of
Vimeira— they did, and succeeded.
" St. John de Ulloa is not so strong as St. Jdlian, and a
ship can nearly touch the walls [it being proved that at
Sweaborg there is deep water close to the walls themselves],
and the Mexican soldiers are not fire eaters. (" Hear, heir,"
from S'r C. Napier.)
" I know the admiral —he is young and enterprising ; if
he take St. John de Ulina, Vera Crete will be at his mercy,
and they may pi obably make a second Algiers of it.
" I write this to your lordship, because the castle is gene-
rally supposed to be [What I like Sweaborg—tho very words]
unattackable by sea, and thinking se, your lordship might be
lead astray."
Just as the Board of Admiralty were " led astray" by the
reports of the 30th of May. (Cheers, and laughter.) I now
have to thank the house for the patience with which they
have heard me. Into this discussion I have been dr awn most
reluctantly. It is not of my seeking. Had it not boon for
the particular circumstances of tho c so, I should not have
done what I have done to-night, in reading private letters.
I am scrupulonsly fearful that I have transgressed in reading
those letters, but the house in judging my conduct on that
point will remember that the circumstances were very peeee-
ing. (Hear, hear.) Before doing so I took counsel with
the house respecting the propriety of this proceeding, and I
myself did not see how such a course was well to be avoided.
Sir, this house is always a friend of truth ; it dislikes special
pleading ; and I think I have stated to the house openly and '
fairly what are the real facts of this case. (Heir.) One
point only remains for me to touch upon. I am, it seems,
the friend of Russia. The Emperor Nicholas himself, had be
been at the head of the Board of Admiralty, could not have
done more than I did to promote the interest of Russia
Well, there aro many witnesses upon the bench below me.
(Cheers.) I will defy any one in this house to say that any
effort was omitted by me. (Cheers.) Neither in the Black
Sea nor in the Baltic may we have been successful as we de-
sired ; but in my conscience I can say that, whatever may
have been our failures, they have not proceeded from want
of exertion on the part of the Board of Admiralty. (Cheers.)
With respect to preparations, I say distinctly that, if we had
received the hon. and gallant officer's report of what was
necesssary; in his opinion, for the attack of Sweaborg by
naval means only in the beginning of June, it` was quite
'in the power of the Admiralty to have sent out
such a quantity of mortars as would either have stir-
ficed to plant on the islands occupied in the attack in
1855, or, placed in mortar vessels, would have aided the
operations of the fleet in the manner recommended by the
hon. and gallant officer, before even in his view the season
would have prevented the attack. Be that as it may, how-
ever, was I negligent in the intervening time ? In concert
with my colleagues I prepared in the autumn of 1854, to be
ready to sail with the fleet in the spring of 1855, 21? gun-
boats, 22 mortar vessels, and five floating batteries, all built
and ready for sea in April, 1855. By an agreement with the
French Government an equal force of gun-boats, mortar ves-
sels, and floating batteries heel been prepared and built by
France ; and, in addition to four screw line-of-line ships,
commonly. called block-ships, we fitted five other line-of-
battle ships with high-pressure engines ; so that there were
ready for attack in the Baltic in the spring of 1855, nine sail
of the line, 24 gun-boats, 22 mortar vessels, and five floating
batteries : this number of gun-boats, mortar vessels, and
floating batteries, being doubled by the arrangement made
with France. The hon. and gallant officer says that there is
treason in it. If that is his opinion this discussion ought not
to stop here. ' (Hear, hear.) I. have confronted the hon.
and gallant officer this evening. lam ready to confront him
anywhere ; and I defy him to prove the accusations which he
has this night scattered with so much recklessness about
him. (Hear.)
- Admiral BERKELEY said he was sure the house would hear
it with surprise when he stated a fact which had happened
that evening, and which had ;curt him more than lie could
possibly express, He had been in communication privately
with the bon. and gallant admiral when he first went to the
Baltic ; but when he (Sir C. Napier) thought proper to enter
into a public controversy with the Board of Admiralty, he
(Admiral Berkeley) had thought it only proper to cease to
Write to him. Upon gilt the hon. and gallant officer wrote
to-him in these terms :—" My dear Berkeley,—Your letters
are such a comfort to me, I miss them, pray continue to
write." He (Admiral Berkeley) wrote back, " Dear Sir
Charles,— I will continue say correspoudomee on the clear and
distioct understanding that neither now nor hereafter, you
will ever make a letter of mine public. (Hear.) The house,
then might suppo,e that lie was not a little astonished to hear
ono of those private letters read after such au agreement.
(hear.) But the hon. and gallant admiral produced a second
letter, and took credit to himself for not reading to the house,
because he said he (Admiral Berkeley) had committed him-
self. Now he would tell the hon. and gallant admired that
fighting was net the only quality that was required of a Bri-
tish admiral. He must be a man of the world,—a man of an-
doubted honour ; and he must not do that which the world
held to be a culpable thing, namely, exposing private COlTOS-
ponienee without the permission of the writer. The hen.
and gallant admiral had so mixed up his private with his
public letters that it wa ; almost impossible to follow him, but
he would go straightforward, and tell the ,hon. and gallant
admiral and the country, putting aside the whole of the cor-
respondence which had been read, that he (Admiral Berkeley)
as the first naval adviser of the First Lord of the Admiralty,
did not wish, bad not advised, and would not have been a
party to allowing his flag to be again hoisted in the Baltic
while ho had a seat 'at that board. (Hear, hear.) Ho would
tell him why—because he was totally physically unfit. (Hear,
hear.) His nerves were completely gone. (Hear, hear )
Now, don't let the gallant admiral or the house mistake him.
Ho did not mean to say one word against the undoubted cou-
rage of the gallant admiral. He did not mean to say that an
old man would not stand to be shot at as well as any younger
man, but the gallaut admiral's own letters, which had been
read by the right hon. member for Carlisle (Sir J. Graham)
proved that he was himself of the same opinion. But he
thanked God they had one bright example which was an excep-
tion to the rule in the Commander-in-Chief in the Black Sea.
(Cheers.) Well, for the first time, soon after the hon. and
gallant admiral got to the Great Belt it was evident from his
public correspondence to the Admiralty, that he had a very
great disinclination to enter the Gulf of Finland, and that
when ho got into the Gulf of Finland ho had a very great in-
clination to get out of it. (Laughter.) It was very true that
fogs did come on, and that the fleet was in some danger after
leaving Elfsuabben, and that the admiral was separated from
his ships. But when the ships joined him the hon. and gallant
admiral was heard to say with more force of truth than dignity
of expression, " What a-- old fool I was to come up into
this infernal hole, if I ever get out of it I will never come
back again." The hon. and gallant admiral soon lost the
confidence of his own officers, nor did he succeed in gaining the
confidence of our allies. (Hear.) Squihs and caricatureswero
flung about the fleets, and every one wishe I themselves in the
Black Sea instead of in the Baltic. It was true, and he would
do the hon. and gallant admiral the justice to say that he had
this from the officers of his fleet, and if he had said one word
of what did not take place, those officers were in this country,
the greater part of them at Spithead, or at Devonport. They
would see the report of these proceedings to-morrow, and if
he had said any single thing damaging to the gallant admiral,
that was not borne out by facts, the greatest favour that any EADVIRTISMINT.)— A few more of the extraordinary cures
of those officers could confer on him (Admiral Berkeley), was without Medicine of Indigos tion (Dyspepsia), Flatulency,
to write and say that he had done so, and the hon. and gal. Constipation, Nervous, Bilious, and Liver complaints, Corgi',
lant admiral should have the most ample reparation. (Heir.) Asthma, Consumption, and Debility effected by Du Barry's
Among other things, the hon. and gallant admiral had said delicious health-restoring Revaleuta Arabica Food, arc
that he had not bad efficient pilots, or rather that he had had here given : Cure 52,422. Bridgehouse, Frimley, 3d
extremely bad ones. Now on that subject, he begged to say April, 1854.—Thirty-three years' diseased lungs, spitting
that every exertion had been made to provide proper pilots ; of blood, liver derangement, deafness, singing in the ears,
that the master of the Thai y-house had been consulted on constipation, debility, shoetuess of breath, and cough, have
the subject, and that by his recommendation persons bad been removed by your Revalenta, Arabica. My lungs, liver,
been obtained, who, he believed were fully competent to the stomach, head, and ears are all right, my bearing perfect, and
duty. Again, the hon. and gallant admiral had found fault my recovery is a marvel to all my acquaintances.—Jamrs
with the charts ; but not only had he been provided withthe ROBERTS, Wood Merchant. —From the Venerable Aich-
Admiralty charts, but he also had supplied him thebest Danish, , deacon of Ross,—No. 32,8313. —Three years' excessive
Swedish, and Russian charts of the Baltic Sea ; and he might nervousness, with pains in my neck and left arm, and
mention that the captains of the blockading squadron who had general debility, which rendered my life very miserable,
\ gone to the Baltic before the ice had broken up, and re- has been radically removed by Du Barry's health-restoring
mined there loag after the fleet had left, exploring Food.—ALEXANDEn STUART, Archdeacon of Ross, Skibereen.
every creek and harbour, had expressed their admiration In canisters, 511 es. Ils.; 121b5., 225. The 121bs. carriage
at the minute correctness of those charts. The honourable free, on receip
t of post-office *eater. Barry du Barry and
and gallant admiral bad stated that the ships were Co. 77, Regent-street, London ; Fortnum, Mason, and Co.,
badly manned, badly disciplined, and not ready to go into Purveyors to her Majesty, Piccadilly; also at 60, G.ra_f_e•
,
action. Now the contrary was the case ; the men were five church-street ; 33,) and 451, Strand; 4; Cheapside ti,
t
feet eight inches in height, and all volunteers, no impressment 1 Cornhill • 49, Bishopsgate-street ; 55, Charing-cress ; 54,
having been resorted to; and although is former times ships, Vpper )3aker-street; 63 andso, Oxign1411"•
__.

right hon. baronet in collecting materials that night against
the gallant admiral which should have incapacitated him
from being put in command of the Baltic fleet in 1854. The
right lion. baronet at the Reform dinner took credit for hav-
ing selected the gallant admiral as the best to whom he could
entrust the command of this fleet, and if the right hon. ba-
ronet's conduct in that respect was culpable, what could be
said of the conduct of the naval lord (Admiral Berkeley) who
had evinced such personal ill-feeling towards the gallant ad-
miral (Sir C. Napier) ? If he knew at the time of the gallant
admiral's appointment what he had stated that night of the
gal.aut admiral's conduct at Acre' why did he .conenr in his
appointment to the Baltic fleet? The right hon. baronet by
his speech had dexterously endeavoured to draw the house
from the real question before them. He suggested to the gal-
lant admiral the propriety of his withdrawing this motion, and
to rest the vindication of his character on the generosity of
the English people, who would ultimately do him. justice.
Mr. OSBORNE said that this discussion was most unfortu.
nate, and not altogether creditable to the house. But who
was the cause of it The late First Lord of the Admiralty
had been charged with political cowardice, and as d traitor to
the cause of his country. He know his great exertions in the
cause of his country; and was he to sit there and make no
reply ? Then, again, he (Admiral Napier) had said that the
gallant Naval Lord of the Admiralty (Admiral Berkeley) bad
been charged as unfit to sit at that board. Was he also to
sit quiet under this charge ? The hon.member for Tynemouth
had spoken as if the order to attack Sweaborg had been pe-
remptory, but it was no such thing. The attack was ex-
pressly forbidden if found to be desperate, according to the
ordinary chances of war. The matter was left entirely to the
judgment of the gallant admiral. The attack upon Acre was
a question of naval science, and was that to unfit him for the
command of a fleet ? But the command of the fleet was a
Cabinet question, and the gallant naval lord had nothing to
do with it. The question was, had a reconnaissauce been made
of Sweaborg in sufficient time ? It had not. Had it been
made in May there would have been time to have sent out
mortars or anything else that was necessary. He thought it
was an error of judgment to bring this subject before the
house, and he thought that in resorting to that stop it would
have been better if he had had hiS eye less upon Marylebono
and more upon Sweaborg. (A laugh.)
Sir C. NAPIER rose to reply. Tho gallant admiral de-
fended the course which be had adopted at Sidon and Acre.
The right hon. baronet had not answered a single accusation
that ho (Sir C. Napier) had brought against him. Every one
knew that the right hon. gentleman was a special pleader of
the first ability, and he had prepared his case with great
skill, but he had not given any satisfactory reply to the
charges made against him. The right hon. baronet had said
that if he (Sir C. Napier) had reconnoitred Sweaborg in May,
all the appliances could have been sent out to him in time to
attack Sweaborg that summer; but how could he have clone
this when he was not at Hauge till the 2d of June ? The right
hon. baronet charged him with being unwilling to enter the
Gulf of Finland, but how could this bo so when, although
with 12 sail of the line under his command, he only went in
with seven ships in order to tempt the Russians out to fight
him ? On the 30th of May, when it was said that he had
shown unwillingness to attack Sweaborg, he had never seen
the place, and all he knew of it was from a plan which he had
obtained from a Swedish officer of engiueers. He was off
Sireaborg on the 12th of June, and, having anchored about
seven or eight miles from the place, he prepared a report con-
taining a clear and accurate account of the manner in which
the place ought to he attacked. On the 30th of the month lie
sent another and fuller report to Cie Admiralty, but they had
never published it. The months of July and August were
the only periods in the year when operations could be
carried on in the Baltic with gun-boats and mortar-
vessels, and how could those have been supplied to him by
the Government even if they had resolved in Juue to forward
them Tho right hon. baronet had charged him with having
repeatedly applied .to him for employment, but he had no
recollection of having done so, and the right hon. baronet
shonld have produced his letters if he had intended to make
the charge. The right lion. baronet had endeavoured to
turn him into ridicule, and had expressed his regret that
such letters had ever been written him. But when an offi-
cer's character was attacked and a court-martial refused
hiM, where was he to look for redrass-unless he availed him-
self of all the documentary evidence in his possession ? He
thought the right hon, baronet bad much more to answer
for ou the score of letters than ho had, as he had read prlvato
letters of his (Sir C. Napier's) alluding to officers serving in
the Baltic fleet, whose names, although not givqn, were re-
ferred to in such d manner that many officers might suppose
they wore the parties refereed to. Trite it was that ho had
made signals to the sailors on the declaration of war that
they should sharpen their cutlasses ; but that was no reason
why he should go and recklessly throw away the fleet. Nel-
son never went into harbours to attack stone walls ; Corn-
wallis never did, nor Howe, nor Sir James Saurnarez ; and
certain lie was that Sweaborg, never would have been attacked
by either of them—the look of it would have been enough.
The right hon. gentleman knew as well as he did that the
motion had been put off only because there had been no op-
portunity to bring it on. The fact, however, was, that
the Admiralty said ho was turbulent and insubordinate,
and therefore he was not sent back to the Baltic, so that if
be had not been turbulent and insubordinate he would not
have been unfit to command the fleet. He said he carried out
his fleet into a sea never before navigated by ships of such a
size, without a pilot that knew anything of these waters, and
the charts were exceedingly imperfect. In short, the right
hon. gentleman had failed to answer any one of the points
which he had put to him, and ho had perverted his letters in
order to damage him, or rather to cover his own mistakes at
the Admiralty. Stich was the conduct of a public officer. He
thanked the house for the kindness with which they had lis-
tened to him. He would withdi:aw his motion, feeling satis-
fied that the country would read his speech, and see that he
had been unjustly, unfairly, and improperly treated.

The motion was withdrawn.
DRAFTS ON BANKERS BILL.

On the order of the day for the second reading,
Mr. A. PELLATT said as this bill involved a matter o

great importance, ho suggested that the second reading should
be postponed until the 2d of April.
Mr. MASTERMAN also urged the postponement of the
measure.

After a few words from Mr. Wilkinson, Mr. Wilson, and
Mr. Hankey, the bill was postponed to the 2d of April.
The house then adjourned at half-past twelve o'clock.

TALBOT'S DIVORCE BILL.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 13.
The house mtt at half•past 10 this day to hear farther

evicknce in support of -the petition of Mr. Jno. Talbot
for a divorce from his wife, Marianne. There were pre-
sent—The Lord Chaticellor, Lord Brougha,m, Lord St.
Leonard's, and Lord Monteagle.
Mr. Talbot was represented by Mr. Serjeant Byles acid
Mr. froneyinßn, and they were opposed by Mr. Serjeant
Wrargbam, Mr. Edwin James, and Dr. DAll ; but Mr.
See cant Mercwether, who is to watch the bill on th
part of some of Mrs. Talbot's relatives, did not appear.

To understand the position of the parties, it is neces-
sery to repeat that the opposition proceeds mainly from
Mr. and Mrs. Pegett, the brother-in-law and sister
of Mrs. Talbot, who are prepared to cont-nd that
she is a victim of a foul conspiracy, which drove her to
ins: nity.
When the inquiry was resumed, the Lord Chancellor
expressed a desire that the housemaid slicaild be recalled.
This witness had proved that she carried wine to Mal-
ian, the g,room, at the express desire of Mrs. T,ilhot, and
that she ,13W Mella.n and Mrs. Talb,-it, arid that she saw
Minlan and Mrs. Talbot on the bed in Mr. end Mrs.
Talbot's room in a position that left no doubt of the 12%-
1 turn of their intinxacy.
Maria Money, the hnusernaid in que,tion, was, there-
fore, again placed at the bar, and examined b 7 the L•iril
Chane;llor and Lord St. Leonard's. Ste said—l broke
t vo of the four bottles of wine. No one saw me. I don't
know what kind of wine it was by the smell. threw
the br iken glass into the privy or water-closet outride
the house, and wiped up the wine with my apron, and
threw that also into the witsr-closet.. My mistress
of it th I next scorning. I was on goal terms with th
lady's maid, but we n. ver sat together. She set in ti e
housekeeper's room. I never mentioned to her Vie sup-
posed familiarities hi-tween Mullins an i my miFtresii ;
but I once spoke to her of some shirts I got u for Mel-
len. They were my master's shirts, with new collars
and wristbanls for Mullen. When I saw Mullen and
my mistress I s yid nothing., but drew back out of the
room as quickly as I could. I was on good terms, the
best terns with Malian. I can't say that they saw me.
My mistress quarrelled with me the next morning., snit
salt! if I did not do her work in the way she liked I
must go, and I s sid. " Very well, Ma'am, I will go."
Cross-examined by Mr. E. James—l never lisd any
conversation witli Thomas Quirk, a shoemaker at Kelly's
bear-shop, al,otit it. I have often said to p'.ople who
asked me tl at the-e was nothing in it. I never offered
tot e sworn upon a one-polind nets that there was no
truth about the reports of Mrs. Talbot ; but I did men-
tion it to some persons after the first proceedings.
The witness was then directed to be kept apart from
others ti l witnesses were called to contradict her.

The Rey. Mr. Collis, examined by Mr. Serjeant Bytes
—T a•n a clergyman of the Church of England, residing
zt Fermoy House, in the county of C.irk. I ',new the
Williamses intimately. Iu consequence of what I heard
from them and my own wife on these matters I commu-
nicated with Mr. Crosbie, the elder brother of Mrs. Tal-
bot, and with Mr. 111`Ca,usland, the father of Mrs. Talbot;
but that was altogether kept secret from Mr. Ta be
The evidence of these transactions was ohj, cted to,
and postponed, as not at present having reference to
the charge of adultery, although it might be very im-
portant afterwards to rebut any case made for the de-
The witness was, therefore, ordered to with 'ray.
Bridget Queeney, the wife of a labon .T at Mount
Talbot, examined by Mr. Sergeant Bvles—l was Isun-
drymaid for half-a-year at Mount Talbot. Mu lan silent
over the laundry. I have twice seen rry rnistress cro to
Mullan's room, and have heard them alk and laugh
together. The child went there for any hing I inex.
I was sent to the carpenter's ebrp by Mrs. Talbot., and
she sent the child with me, Mullen being then i the
room with her. This was only once. I left there there.
I washed Mullan's shirts My mistress asked me by
I did not do up M&lan's shirts as well as any master's,
and made mo wash them over attain. My mistress came
twice in one clay to s-e about it.
Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Wrangham—l never
know my mistress to mind any servant but Mullen. She
nevi r saw the kitchen-boy do his room up or look to its
cleanliness.

A Surveyor was here examined to show that the wit-
ness could not have heard the laughing and talking she
decribed in consequence cf the position of the rooms in
the laundry, but he admitted that voices could be heard.
The probable accuracy of the statements of the wit•
❑ess appeared to be carefully tested by the Lori Mon-
tea,gle with little slips of paper used on a plan at the
table of the house.

The cross-examination of Bridget Queenev was
resumed I did not leave my place ; I was.
dismissed. I told my mistress I hoped it was not any.
thing wrong, and she said Mr. Talbot did not like my
butter ; for I was dairymaid as,well as lanndrymaid. I
never heard that I was charged with taking things to
my relations in the village. I swear that.
Patrick Carr.—ln July, 1851. I was a top sawyer at
Mount Talbot. I know Mullan. In conlequecce of some-
thing I looked through a window and saw Mnllan sed
mistress lying down on some straw on the back stall ;
Doogan was with me. I went back and said nothing.
Cross-examined by Mr. E. James—l was not exa-
mined before this. I gave this statement first t i Mr.
Smith, an attorney's clerk, who came down to Mom t
Talbot about three or four years ago. I gave it after-
wards in Dublin at the office of Mr. Adair, an attn.. ey.
Mr. Finnerty, the steward of Mr. Talbot, paid for my
going there. Smith was the first person I told it to.
I am a married man, but I never told it to my wife, or
any of the servants at Mount Talbout. Smith, I swear,
was the first person I toll it to. I heard of the &sa'ge
against Mrs. Talbot in 1852. I can give no aecoant of
dates. I never told Finnerty about it or anybody else
till I told smith. Mr. Talbot was present when I told
Smith. Doogan gave a statement at the same tim'.
Talbot bad a riding horse kept in the grand stable.
What I saw was between 2 and 3 o'clock. I saw her first
go into the grand stable, but I do not know if her horse
was there. Mrs. Talbot wore a dark dress and a dark
I shawl. She had no riding dress on. I never saw her ride,
but the horse was called hers. Mullan went into the
hack stable first. I did not go to the window between
the ash-pit and the stable until I saw mistress
go into the hack stable after Malian. I went to the
ash-pit to put a coal on my pipe, and then to the window
of the stable. The coal was a pretence. There are
stalls for six horses. Ido not know how long Mullen
and my mistress stayed in the stable, for I went away
at once that I might not be noticed. When Mrs. Talbot
went away I heard that she had been charged with adni-
tery. I have not worked constantly for Mr. Talbot,
but I work for him when he wants me. I have not
done all his sawing. I was his tenant at the time this
happened, but lam not his tenant now. I keep no ac-
count of dates, times, or days, and cannot say when I
first told it to Smith.

Re-examined--I have been in America, and returned
in November last. I vent there after I gave my evi-
dence to Smith. I went to America about a month after
I saw Smith. Was iu Am erica about two years. I did
not tell Smith I was ving to America when he cam.-
mim d me.

Patrick Doogan—l rxrember being with Patrick
Carr at the stable. I Faw Mullan go to the hack stable,
alui then I F,aw Talborl go to the grand stable, and -
follow Mulian to the hack ~tablc. I put a coal in my
pipe, and then went to the window of the hack stable,
and :taw Malan and Mrs. Talbot lying. They were to•
gether. I did not see them for more than a very short
time, for I went to the carpent Ws shop. I was not be-
fore examined in the ecclesiasti•nl court.

Cross-examined by Mr. E. J-; Jr es—There were two or

three of the wooden bars of the windows broken, so that
I cmlld see through. The space. was between eight and
nine inches. You could see two stalls. I swear the,'
were lying down in a stal'. There were two windows; I
e )uld see through both. Ido not know how Mrs.
Talbot was dressed, but she 'aad a shawl and bonnet
when she passed to the grand: stable. Carr first said
that we should go. Carr saki he understood Mrs. Tal-
bot was on that design, and ac e said we would go and
see. Ido not think I told my wife. I think I first
told it to Halloran. He knocked it out of rue after the

first trial, in the yard of Mount Talbot. I wag a tenant
~f Mr. Talbot's at the time. I wv.9 after that examined

by Ir. Smith. Carr was present. Halloran said ho
should not wonder they knew something about it, and
then he said he would go and tell Mr. Talbot we knew
something about Men. Talbot's conduct. Ho gave me
nothing to drink. I know Martin Carrick, and have had
some talk with him about it, but cannot say that I told
him I had given a statement in Dublin that I could not
swear to. I never told him, as a tenant of Mr. Talbot,
I was afraid of being turned out. (Paper produced.)
That is not my handwriting. I swear it. I did not
sign a paper to Mr. Carrick. I read writing badly. I
never read or saw the paper now in my hand. I signed
a paper for Mr. Talbot, but not for Carrick. (The wit-
ness repeated his denial that he never saw the paper be-
fore, and he then wrt.te his name twice and at interval,
on the dasire of Lord St. Leonardo and of Lard
Brougham. The signatures and the paper will pre-
served for future production.) I never signed with a
mark. Ido not keep my own accounts. I never had
a paper read over to me by Carrick. I never mentioned
it to any one but Carr, but we talked it over sure fifty
times or more.
Re-examined by Mr. Sergeant Bvles—l have known
Carrick for five or six months. lie is an under-agent,
who had something to dia• with getting up the evidence.
He once gave inc sometbing,to4rink in a whisky-shop.
If there was any paper exhiBlE4 to me at
(9m whisky-
shop—if there was anything signed I was d utie
do not recollect it ; nor do I recollect that he told me
my evidence would not be of any u.so to
could swear that I saw Mulian lying with Mrs. unless .I
Tat.
hot. He never promised me anything for my evidence.
I swear that.
To Lor t St, Lconards—l was not top-sawyer, but I
saw Mrs. Talbot go to the stable over the sill of the saw.
pit. I could see her quite plain. The sawing place was
not a pit sunk in the ground, but supported by beams of
wood.
As it was near two o'clock the further proceeding was
adjourned till to-morrow, in consequence of their lord.
ship's attendance on the jurisdiction committee.
It is understood that their lordships will not allow the
case for the defence to be opened till some time after
Easter, of which due notice will be given to counsel.
The next sitting will be devoted solely to the bearing of
evilance in support of the petition.

A NEW TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE.—The list of pe-
titions to Parliament just published includes one front a
respectable congregation of Christians at Newington-
green, praying for an improved version of the Bible, on
account of the inaccuracies and errors with which the
authorised version abounds. The petition was pre-
seated by Ilr. Lleywood, M.P.