The Sun.
London, England, 1860-05-25 00:00:00

pense, whatever it might amount to, the Government did '
not intend to carry out the work. This project had been in
embryo for some time past, but the estimate had beets re-
duced to a definite and detailed form only within a few
weeks past. That was the reason why the house had not
earlier been supplied with information on the subject.
Sir S. NORTH COTE asked whether the noble lord would
lay on the table the agreement which bad been made with
the Maltese Government, and the contract for the purchase
of the land that was to cost £60,000.
Lord C. PAGET said that as soon as the contract was
concluded he would lay it on the table.
Lord LOVAINE stated that this sill:Oct had been under
the consideration of the late Government, and that had
they remained longer in office they would probably have
proposed a scheme of the same nature as that now brought
forward.
Mr. J. LOCKE thought the Government ought to have
furnished the committee with a full account of the various
items of the estimate, and the name of i he officer who made
it, as a guarantee of its soundness.
Mr. WHITBREAD assured the hon. member that the
civil engineer employed by the Admiralty to prepare the
estimate was a gentleman of much experience, and that the
calculations had been made with the greatest care.
Mr. HENLEY was afraid the fact that the Admiralty
were bargaining against an excess in the estimate warranted
the suspicion that they expected an excess.
Sir J. PAXTON said that ve'y scanty information was
given to the committee. There was no account of the acre-
age of the work or the amount of accommodation to the
navy. He wished to know whether there were to be any
docks for the merchant service, and whether the expense
was included.
Lord C. PAGET said they expected to get accomuuoda-
tion for six line-of-battle ships, but if they grew much larger
there would be room for only five. As to any new merchant
yards, in lieu of those which the Government purchased,
the ,Government would have nothing to do with any build-
ings on shore. Their business was to deepen the harbour.
The purchase of the French Creek and all the buildings
which surrounded it was included in the estimate of £60,000.
Mr. WHITBREAD said the Government would have
given more ample notice, but there had been many references
from the Admiralty to Malta, and they found by experience
that when it became known the Government intended to
purchase, the property trebled in value. If the estimate
were postponed to a future day, the agreement to sell the
property would become void.
Admiral WALCOTT asked whether there would bo depth
of water sufficient for the largest line-of-battle ships.
Lord C. PAGET said there would when the harbour was
deepened, but not before.
The vote was agreed to, and the house resumed.
WAYS AND MEANS.
The house immediately resolved into a committee of ways
and means.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had
to propose a resolution requiring the makers of British
wine to take out licenses for either making or selling the
same wholesale, the amount of which was fixed at half the
amount which the vendors paid. The right hon. gentle-
man moved—" That, towards raising the supply granted to
her Majesty there shall be charged and paid the following
duties of Excise, that is to say—For a licence to be taken
out by every maker of any kind of sweets or made wines,
or of mead or metheglin, for sale or by any dealer who
shall sell the same in any quantity amounting to two gallons
or upwards, or in one dozen or more reputed quart bottles
at one time, £5 Ss.
llr AYRTON thought the right hon. gentleman was
taking effectual means to prevent the public getting-good wine
at all. As far as he could discover, bef,,n2 L t!ing ia wines
a trader would have to pay zel9 1:1i. for licences, which was
a large tax to impose on a person before he could embark in
business. The greatest chance of the public having good
wine was in the establishment of many traders who would
deal in it wholesale and retail, and he had hoped that the
right hon. gentleman would have proposed one consolidated
charge, after payment of which the dealer would be able to
sell any quantity, large or small, as long as it was in bottle.
With regard to British wine, it was much purer than a
great deal of that which came from abroad. The process of
manufacture here was, that dried grapes were placed in a vat
with water, the juice being pressed out of them and allowed
to ferment ; and the wine thus produced was consumed in
large quantities by people who were above the vulgar pre-
judice of thinking that that which came from abroad and
had a high-sounding name was better than home products
tions. (Laughter.) The whole tendency of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer's proposals was to force the sale of wine upon
the premises. Did the right hon. gentleman, he would ask,
intend, according to promise, to bring in another bill regu-
lating the sale of British wine to be drunk on the premises ?
As the case stood Parliament was called upon to alter our
municipal law to promote the consumption of a foreign com-
modity, while it did nothing to extend the consumption of
an article made in our own country. (Hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declined
to follow the hon. member into a discussion of the Wine
Licences Bill. It might have been supposed that the hon.
gentleman had had enough of this discussion, but he seemed
quite insatiable. (A laugh.) As to the necessity of a new
law respecting the consumption of British wine he was not
aware that any such necessity existed, nor did he remember
to have promised the introduction of any measure on the
subject. "W ith regard to British wine, which the hon. mem-
ber seemed to think was made much more legitimately here
from raisins than by expression from the grape in the coun-
try of its birth, it was to be remembered that these raisins
were imported at a low duty, whereas the foreign wine paid
a high rate of duty. The hon, member, of course, could not
be expected to sympathise with the exchequer in such a
case ; but the two articles contributed to the revenue in very
unequal degrees, and this was an element which could not
be entirely left out of consideration. A difference was re-
cognised in the amount paid for licences—namely, 10
guineas for a wholesale foreign wine, and five guineas for a
British wine licence; but he should have no objection to
allow persons who paid the higher amount to deal in both
kinds of wine. (Hear.)
Mr. BOVILL thought it would be difficult to interpret
the expressions " sweets " and " made wines." Would
"sweets" include " bitters ? " Then a large proportion of
port and sherry was manufactured in and about London,
elder wine and logwood being primo ingredients in the
former concoction. Within a short distance of that house
there was a manufactory of champagne from rhubarb.
(Laughter.) Would those be "made wines" within the
meaning of the resolution ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the expressions objected to were certainly not to be justified
upon abstract grounds, and fell short of the standard of
purity which the hon. and learned member wished to set
up in the wording of the act. But they were in accordance
with usage, and would be, he believed, adequate for the
purpose. "Sweets," he was informed, was the legal de-
scription of British wines, and "made wines" comprised
other compounds of the same sort.
The resolution was then agreed to.
SIR JOHN BARNARD'S ACT, &c., REPEAL BILL.
On the motion that this bill be read a second time,
Mr. BENTINCK moved as an amendment that the bill
be read a second time that day six months. The object of
this bill was to legalise gambling to any extent, in order, by
a penny stamp upon " time bargains," to benefit the re-
venue.
The. SOLICITOR GENERAL replied that Sir J. Bar-
nard's Act was obsolete, and that the Bth and 9th Vic., cap.
109, sufficed to meet all cases of gambling contracts.
Mr. E. JAMES said it was not known to those who
advised the repeal of Sir J. Barnard's Act as a part of the
Budget that it was to raise a revenue from stamps on trans-
actions which that act made illegal.
Mr. T. HANKEY defended the gentlemen engaged on
the Stock Exchange from the imputations that they were
were tainted with gambling, and contended that Stock'Ex-
change transactions had less of a gambling character in
them than insurances, and yet no attempt was made to le-
gislate against insurance. He should support the bill now
before the house.
Mr. BOVILL contended that Sir John Barnard's Act
was necessary to keep in check the gambling tendencies of
the Stock Exchange ; and said the real reason why the Go-
vernment proposed to repeal that act was, as let out by the
hon. member for Peterborough, that the money paid for
" time bargains" could by that act be recovered back again,
because time bargains were by tho act illegal. Playing
with dice was considered illegal ; but a man with dice had
a fair chance, while in Stock Exchange transactions he had
no fair chance. For those and other reasons he should
oppose the Government bill, which was an unholy contract
entered into by the Chancellor of the Exchequer with the
Stock Exchange, in consideration of their consenting to
give him a penny stamp revenue.
Mr. J. LOCKE said the hon. and learned gentleman,
who was set down as a first rate lawyer, addressed the
House of Commons as if they were a common jary. and a
very common jury; but he had totally failed to show that
there was any ono thing that was useful in Sir J. Barnard's
Act.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY supported the bill, and
After a few words from Mr. BUTT and Mr. VANSITTART
the house then divided.

For the second reading lBl
Against it ....58
Majority
(Cheers and laughter.)
The bill was then read a second time.
EXCISE AND ASSESSED TAXES ACTS.
The house went into committee on this bill—adjourned
debate.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that,
after consulting the officers in the department, he had reso-
lutions to propose of a simple nature, which he hoped would
meet with the support of the committee. Ho proposed that
a game licence for the whole season should be £3, while

that for a moiety of the season would be V. That was the
essence of the scheme, which involved no alteration in tho
existing law, with one exception, viz., that it was intended
to include deer under the head of game, and a licence would

require to be taken out for killing deer also. With respect
to park deer, that would be provided for by a separate clause.
The clause having been read,
Mr. 13ENTINCK said the right hon. gentleman had
studied the question of revenue more than the convenience
of the parties who would have to take out these game
licences. What amount of revenue he expected from the
measure he could not tell, 4tit the 4imple effect of the mea-