The Sun.
London, England, 1860-02-04 00:00:00

MR. DRUMMOND HAY.

Mr. MAGUIRE called the attention of the Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs to certain statements in the
its
inie,B newspaper of January the 24th, in the letter of
its ,8 Pecial Correspondent," from the seat of war on the
coast of Morocco, as to the alleged or reported mis-
conduct on the part of Mr. Drummond Hay, Itr
Majesty's
Consul atangier ; and asked whether any facts
had come to the knowledge of the Government which would
British. Consul had in any way
violated that strict neutrality which should be maintained
by the official representative of this country in relation to
both of the belligerent Powers, Spain and Morocco;
Mr. LIDDELL said that
cer-
tain information derived from he was in possession of. .
geatleman who desired to'
ho should be happy to show an
allow hint to state ono o
very good authorit whict
see it, he hoped the house would
conduct in a differ
-
Iwo facts which would place Mr. hay's
With to Mr.
rent light from that in which it was
ex-
tract just read by the hon.
urged upon
o.entleman.epT7ted by the
ilayta partiality, that gentleman had strongly js
the Moorish Government the necessity,
pro-
priety, of sparing the Spanish prisoners, and 4131 ; thael a h
interference the Moorish authorities had offered °t•iii)-erice—.ol
£3 for each living Spaniard brought in, whereasa
formerly given was £1 for each head. Through his •Klecer-
tions the lives of a number of Spanish prisoners had been
spared. It was through his intervention that the families
of Jews and Spaniards had been permitted to depart unmo-
lested from Morocco with their property; and in conse-
quence of his having remained on the spot, with the sanc-
tion of the British and Spanish Governments, the houses of
the persons who had so left were protected and the Roman
Catholic chapel was secured from outrage. (Hear.) As
illustration of the good effects which had resulted from the
presence of Mr. Hay, he might mention that a Moor had

been flogged round the town for attempting to enter a house
forcibly, and that in December last, when a French vessel
was wrecked some distance down the coast, that gentleman
most promptly sent the authorities to the spot, had the
mariners rescued from the violence of the natives, and sent
them to the French admiral and consul at Gibraltar. These
were facts which he believed to be authentic, and he had felt
it his duty not to withhold them from the house—(hear)--
when the character of an absent official appeared to be im-
pugned—at least, when it had been made the object outside
that house of malignant aspersions.
FRENCH ARMAMENTS. _ ..

Mr. KINGLAKE—I have studied how to frame the
question which I am about to put in a way which shall not
be considered as expressing distrust, but rather, so far asis
capable of being accomplished in a matter of this kind,
something like confidence in the present Administration.
On Monday next the House of Commons is to be called on
to give its sanotion to a treaty which is to bring us into
more intimate relations with the Empire of France—(hear,
hear)—and we are to be asked at the same time to consider
those arrangements which the Chancellor of the Exchequer
will produce to us with a view of meeting the vast expenses
which we have been obliged to incur in consequence of the
present state of Europe. (Hear, hear.) The cause which
makes it necessary to incur this outlay is no secret to any
man ; everybody is aware that it has arisen from the fact
that in the present phase of the French revolution, a vast
concentration of power has taken place, and that the Em-
peror of the: French wields the resources of France, not
through statesmen or Ministers, but in a way which makes
it impossible to know what his intentions are, except in so
far as one is able to divine them from the probable use of
the great armaments which he is preparing. I sincerely be-
lieve that almost the entire of Europe, including the great
country of France, fervently desires the continuance of
peace—(hear)—but I cannot forget that last year Europe,
including then as well as now the great country of France,
desired the continuance of peace with an intensity equal to
that by which it is at present animated. That wish was
frustrated by circumstances which are so recent that it is
needless further to allude to them ; but what occurred may
be stated in one short sentence—Austria madly and fool-
ishly began the war, but it was the Emperor of the French
who began the quarrel. (Hear.) It is not for me to say
whether Europe has been taught or misled by the expe-
rience of last year, but to every gentleman holding corre-
spondence with the Continent it must be known that a
general idea is prevalent that the peace of Europe is again
about to be disturbed, and that schemes are on foot
for altering territorial arrangements, independent of those
modifications which may have to be carried out in Italy.
Although there may be other grounds for these apprehen-
sions, the anxiety that is felt is mainly due to the arma-
ments existing throughout Europe, and it may be readily
believed that the uneasiness which prevails on the Conti-
nent speedily makes itself felt in this country. It is, of
course, to be observed that there may have been exaggera-
tion as to•many points which we have heard ; for those who
busy themselves in communicating intelligence to England
are, for the most part, unfriendly to the present Government
of France. (Hear, hear.) But it does appear to me that it
must rest in the power of her Majesty's Foreign-office to
dispel this anxiety in a great measure, or, if not to dispel it,
at all events to convert what is now a vague sentiment of
fear into a rational, wise, and persistent vigilance. (Hear,
hear.) My observation of the military preparations of France
enables me to make one remark, which may exercise in one
respect a reassuring tendency. Many persons entertain the
opinion that wild incursions, descents, and small expedi-
tions of a marauding character may be attempted on our
coast, and that in this manner, without any serious conse-
quences to either country, great mischief might be effected.
Now, sir, to do justice to the present ruler of France, I do
not believe that it is consistent with his policy to de any-
thing in a small way ; and, therefore, if I could be convinced
that no large armaments were in preparation, I should rest
assured that the peace of Europe was not about to be dis-
turbed. Great preparations cannot be made in an hour, and
cannot go on in corners, so that if I should succeed in ob-
taining from the noble lord anything like an assurance that
no vast preparations are at present going on in France, it
follows that we have established a great ground of security.
Unfortunately, the information which reaches me as a pri-
vate individual is not of such a reassuring kind as I should
hope to receive from the noble lord. It is the practice of
the French Government to make known their intention
some time beforehand to the prefects of the departments ;
and I am informed that they received notice that a
levy of 140,000 men is to take place for the
purpose of what is called retnplacement. I am also told that
the Emperor of the French has for the present refused to
give the eonge to some 40,000 men who, under ordinary cir-
cumstances, would have been sent to their homes some
weeks since. The consequence is that by this new levy, and
by the retention of this large body of trained soldiers, the
military forces of France will be next spring on a most' for-
midable footing. lam assured—thengh this in like manner
is perhaps an exaggeration—that the Emperor of the French
will then be prepared to take the field with a force of no
less than 600,000 men. In addition, I have been informed
that great preparations are being urged forward for the sup-
ply of horse transports on the north coast of France. (Hear,
' hear.) Then, if I turn from the military to the naval arma-
ments, I find that this unfortunate battle of the dockyards,
if I may so call it, is being carried on with unceasing perti-
nacity: and that at the very moment when the member for
Rochdale was carrying on what was supposed to be a very
friendly intercourse with the Emperor of the French his
Majesty was devoting his mind with great earnestness to a
pursuit which would indicate that he was preparing for a
species of conflict which would have to be decided by armed
vessels. When such are the reports which reach the ears of
private individuals, I think I am not doing wrong in giving
the noble lord an opportunity of correcting what I hope may
turn out to be false and exaggerated statements ; thereby
enabling us to enter upon the discussion on Monday with
that knowledge which it is most important for us to possess
of the preparations which the. Emperor of the French is
really making. Ido not make anything like a complaint
against the Emperor of the French ; I merely desire the in-
formation as a dry piece of statistics, which will enable me to
arrive at the conclusion that I shallnext week be called upon
to form more satisfactorily than any other information could
possibly do ; and it will be to my mind more cogent than
any speech with which the matchless eloquence of the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer may lead him to favour us. The
hon. member concluded by asking the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether it would be consistent with the
interests of the public service to communicate to the house
any of the information which had reached the Foreign-office
in respect to the military and naval preparations of the Em-
peror of the French ; and if so, whether such information
could be communicated before the financial statement which
it was proposed to deliver on Monday.
Colonel W. S. KNOX wished to ask before the noble
lord answered the question, whether the treaty of commerce
with France had been ratified by any responsible officer of
the Government, and whether it would be laid on the table
before Monday
Lord J. RUSSELL said—With respect to the first ques-
tion put by the hon. member for Dungarvan (Mr. Maguire),
I can state that Mr. Drummond Hay is a gentleman of the
highest honour and character. He, with other members of
his family, have been long in the service of the Crown. He
has, therefore, had much experience- of public life, and
knows too well his duty to the Crown to take any course
inconsistent with the general policy of her Majesty's Go-
vernment. (Hear.) From his long residence in Morocco, and
his kindness to all who hold any intercourse with him, he
has gained to a great degree the respect of the people of that
country, not only of the Foreign Minister of the Emperor of
Morocco, who was formerly a merchant, but of the wild
tribes of natives who so frequently made incursions into the
Spanish settlements. Having this influence, I believe that
he, according to instructions from her Majesty's Government,
endeavoured to prevent the breaking out of war between
Spain and Morocco. He endeavoured to prevent this war,
till he was told by the Moorish Minister that, whatever
advice might be given, Morocco could make no further
concessions. Mr. Drummond Hay did exert himself to
the utmost, and :used the influence he had so justly ac-
quired to prevent the outbreak of hostilities. Since that
time, it being the policy of her Majesty's Government
to be neutral in the war, his conduct had been in strict
conformity with his instructions. The hon. member
has read a report from the correspondent of the Times
newspaper—a very respectable gentleman, I believe; but
he is in the Spanish camp, and can hear nothing but what
he is told by Spaniards. They have stated various matters
which the correspondent repeats, but he says that he knows
nothing of them and has nclproof of them whatever. I have
not heard from Mr. Drummond Hay since he had an oppor-
tunity of seeing these statements in the newspaper, but I
have not a doubt they are one and all entirely false. I do
not believe that Mr. Drummond Hay has felt it his duty to
take any part in the war. The Spanish Minister did on one
occasion state to Mr. Buchanan that complaints had been
made of the partiality of Mr. Drummond Hay; but he gave
stncaht
thep partiality,
Spanishrti Governmentality,norany proof
to n this w
f it whatever.
has
e
nAV armyo obtainedynhas nasert:m thepawaree
been
of
l :einat
tit
h Britishds7Otpfhp•lrieefdwith Et.
ore:omf a violationercrthainsh stores merchants, and
tr
that the Spanish
tyn provisions.igh t
more justly be made by the Government of andeu
mrecca
by the Government of Spain. (Hear.) I believe that the
conduct Of Mr. Drummond Hay has been entirely
tin this war is
free from
enthusiasm blame. I do not wish to say which party
right; but I cannot sympathise with the of
s the
hon. gentleman in regard to it. Ido not thinknslbecau
party is Christian and the other Mehemet= we oughte to
one
give the former all the sympathy, without knowing the
causes of the quarrel. (Hear.) I will now refer to the
questions of my hon. friend the member for Bridgwater
(Mr. Kinglake). He has stated much with regard to the
late war in Italy, which this is not the proper occasion to
discuss, but which may hereafter come under consideration.
All I can say with regard to the other part of this subject is,
that we have in Paris a very able ambassador, and a mili-
tary attache to the embassy, possessing great knowledge
and experience of the French army. From neither one nor
the other has her Majesty's Government received any ac.
count of any extraordinary military preparations in France.
As for the statement of 600,000 men to bo in readiness for
the field by the spring, there is nothing to corroborate
it. A great number of men way be called on to serve
in the French army by conscription, and a general
conscription takes place in the course of every year. The
hon. gentleman must recollect that the Peace of Zurich has
not long been signed, and the Congress that was summoned
for the purpose of rendering the pacification of Italy solid
and durable has not been held. It is therefore desirable,
while peace is so recent and the affairs of Italy have not yet
settled down, to use every means to prevent a renewal of
the war, or any collision in Italy that might excite it. Her
Majesty's Government has recently been engaged in efforts
to secure the permanence of that peace ; and I can state that
everything that has been done has proved most satisfactory.
We have representel to the Government of Sardinia the
danger of any collision with Austria on the territory of
Venetia or elsewhere ; and I have to-day received an assur-
ance from the Sardinian Government that it will do nothing
tending to cause a renewal of hostilities. France also is far
from desirous that there should be any renewal of the war ;
the Government of the Emperor is exerting itself earnestly
and unremittingly
oa the to
e other
the solidity and permanence of
the peace ruthand Austria, though unwilling to
acquiesce in the present
fthesteaotune otry.
flta(luy,earis, by no
With
disposed
Powers
intoporsesneeswsiatuhae year by making any attack on the