The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, T UESDA.Y EVENING, MARCH 20, 1860.

CRISTY'S MINSTRELS, Polygraphic Hall,
King William-street, Strand.—Farewell Season in Lon-
don.—Eve Evening at 8, and every Saturday Morning at
ry
3 o'clock. Tickets and places may be secured at the Hall
from 11 till 4, and at Mr. Austin's West-end Box-office, St.
James's Hall, Piccadilly.—Sole Proprietor and Manager,
Mr. J. W. RAywon.

DR. KAHN wj.ll continue to deliver his popular
Lectures on the "Philosophy of Marriage," daily at 3
and R, at his Museum, top of the Haymarket: Admisgion,
One Shilling.
Kahn's treatise on the above subject, sent post-free for
twelve stamps, direot from the author, 17, Harley-street,
Cavendish-square.

% RGYLL ROOMS, Windmill-street, Grand
1-1- CASINO, open every Evening, with the celebrated
Band. Established 10 years. Conducted by Mons. Lamotte ;
Principal cornet-a-piston, M. Boulcourt. Doors open at half-
past 8, commence at 9. Close a few minutes before 12. Ad-
mission, Is.

THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ROOMS,
ruGH HOLBO RN.
Phis Establishment, pre-eminently distingmished for the
elegance and matchless beauty of its decorations, combined
with the perfection of its management is OPEN EVERY
EVENING. The celebrated band, under the direction of Mr.
W. M. Packer, plays a nightly-varied selection of the matt
approved classical and modern music. Doors open at half-
past IL Overture at 8. " Closing at 12. Admission, One

EA: STRACHAN and CO.'s Strong rough
T
" Deme7tio" Black at 3s. 2d. per lb.-20, Cornhill, Lon-
don. E.C.

TEA. STRACHAN and CO.'s Fine "Inter.
mediate" Blaok. at 33. Bd. per lb.-28, Cophill, Lon.
don. E.C.

EA. -- ,STRA.CHAN and Co.'s Matchless
" Drawing Room" Black at 4s. 2d. per lb.-2G, Corn-
hill, London. E.C.

fIOCKS'S CELEBRATED READING SAUCE,
J which is so highly esteemed with Fish, Game, Steaks.
Soups, Grills, Gravies, Hot and Cold Meats, and unrivalled
for general use is sold by the most respects)* dealers in Fish
Sauces.—J. and C. COCKS Reading, Sole Minufacturers.

IMPERIAL PAHL ENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.)

The LORD CIIANCELIOR took his seat on the woolsack
tt five o'clock.

SUNDAY TRADING BILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR presented six petitions
in favour of this 1 ill.
THE DIVORCE -COURT. _ _ _

Lord LYNDIIVR,ST- 'called the attention of the
•
noble and Learned lord on the woolsack to the
64-rears of business' in the' Divorce Court... lie said that
v
was not owing to any incapacity on the part of the learned
judge who presided; but was ocoasidned chiefly' by
the , pry limited time the common. law judges could de-
vote to the formation of full cuurts. The al tendance of the
common law judges was, as Vac act of Parliament now
'
stood, absolutely- pecemry. before any final judg-
ment diSsoiving nithfage cou'.d be pronounced.
He thought it, was highly desirable that some alteration
should be made enabling- the Jude Ordinary to. pronounce
final judgments,,,unles,s he Wislied deriain casts reserved for
the -consldera.tion of the full court.
The LORD CHANCELLOR concurred in the observa-
tions of the noble and learned lord.
NICE AND SAVOY.

The Earl of CARNARITON wished to recall,' for a few
minutes, the recent discussion that had taken place i,n that
house on Friday. He complained of the Duke of New-
castle's observations upon-him in' putting the question he
considered it his duty to do on that evening. It was very
far from his wish, if it was inconvenient for the noble duke
to reply to his question, but he should very much like to
know whether the noble duke could now do so.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he thought the noble
marquis was under some mistake with respect to what the
noble lord, the Secretary of Woreign...kfClirs had stated with
respect to M. ThotiVenePs despatch The noble lord did
not say he _would lay'it on the tali, .16" with his answer at the
earliest opportunity. What the noble lard did say was that
as soon as 124 Was enabled to frame an answer, and her
Majesty had signifie4 her approval of it, then it with the ,
despatch would' beTaid "on the table of the house.
THE NEW- TREATY.
The Earl of ST-. GERMANS brought up her Majesty's
reply to the addresses voted'by 'both Houses of Parliament.
The royal answer thanked their lordships for the address.
ARMY COMMISSIONS. •
Lord PANMURE gave notice that on the Mutiny Act
coming before them he should call attention to the sale of
army, commissions.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
The Edinburgh Railway Station Access; Blackburn Gas;
and West Middlesex Water.

THE BALLOT.

Lord TEYNHAM, having presented a number.of peti-
tions from Doitwich, Maidston Chi:haster, Corn-
wall,
,Newport, Me. of Wight, Norwich, Chatham, the
,Northern Reform :Union, Sz-c, in favour of vote by ballot,
proceeded to move a resolution to the effect that it was ex-
pedient in the election of members to,4erve in Parliament

that the rotes of the electors should be taken by secret
ballot. The noble lord said, in moving tho resolution he
felt that the su.bjeet was well worthy of the most attentive
consideration of theirlodships, especially as it was year by
year brought before the other House of Parliament, and the
effect of a discussion in their lordships' house would most
likely tend to put marl of the opponents of the ballot right,
and tend to convert the minority of that house into a majo-
rity. The'question involved many points of great import-
ance, of a moral charttetcr, affecting the happiness of large
Masses of our fellow- creatures, both in this world and the
world to come ; all the endeavours 6f Parliament had- been
ineffectual to wipe out the stain of corruption and bribery
on our electoral system, which was at the present time as
bad as ever. It behoved Parliament, then, seriously to set
to work and endeavour by some effectual means to blot it
out. The ballot had been made one of the settled institu-
tions of the United States, and in their colonies in the south-
ern hemisphere the ballet had boon adopted as a means of
avoiding the evils of the mother country ; and such a system •
was well worth the consideration of thoughtful men. In ano-

ther place the question of the ballot had been periodically de-
bated, and year by year its advocates were gradually increas-
ins, till at length the minority had become very large. Now,
in what condition did the question come before their lord-
ships ? There. as surely no man who could avoid deploring
the evils of whiCh the system of open voting was the fruitful
source, and of which bribery was one of the most calamitous
results, as it sapped the very foundation of all moral feeling.
Under such circumstances it behoved their lordships to take
the question of the ballot lute their most serious consitlera.

tion, for the purpose of !ttsbeitaining, whether it might
not be made the means of putting a stop to those scenes
of bribery and clenloralisation -which at present prevailed.
Up to 1820, the practice of balloting prevailed in their
lordships' house, and as a strong feeling prevailed upon
the subject throughout the country, it became a question
whether the system of the ballot should not be seriously
considered by their lordships. It had been his painful
duty to examine into the evils which were associated with
open voting, and the sad consequences which were the
result. The noble lord here read a letter from a solicitor
in. 1858, showing. the, practices which Were resorted to by
candidates at elections, especially that of employing an un-
necessary number of solicitors to operate upon the electors.
If a solicitor, acting as an agent, sought to influence a voter'
through the knowledge he possessed of the elector's private
circumstances, and by such means induced him to vote
against his conscience, was a system under which such
practices could 'be practised one which their lordships
would desire to see upheld ? Open voting had the effect of
leading to scenes of great immorality and vice. Now, under
the system of the ballot such results could not occur, nor
could the disgusting practice of bribery be openly and un-
blushingly indulged in. While there had been some pro-
secutions for bribery, still it could be indulged in in such a
wsy as to make it difficult for the law to step in, and hence
there was an additional argument in favour of the ballot.
Along with bribery, there was, under the system of open
voting, the detestable practice of intimidation resorted to to
deter the voter from recording an honest vote, and he was
sorry to say that women were extensively employed among
tradesmen to carry out this system'of intimidation. He
thought that a very large number of the electors who were
on the register abstained from voting. It was difficult to ac-
count for it, but it was a fact, and therefore the House of
Commons was not in that condition as the representative of
the entire country which tho theory of the Constitution de-
signed it should be. Elections were often closely run, and
looking at those who did not vote, and at those who might
be on the register but were not, they might often have
turned the election had they recorded their votes. These
classes wereeoften the most valuable, both in position and
character, of the entire constituencies. In Cumnock, in
Scotland, the electors had requested the removal of the poll-
ing place to Ayr, and they intimated that such were the
indignities and insults to which they had been exposed that
nothing on earth should ever induce them to Vote again in.
That had not. been unfrequently tho case in other 21aces•
The bearing of this question on individual liberty was I°l7
important. There were those who thought they were free,
and were not so. As long as the law of open voting ex-
isted how could they prevent these abuses—nothing but
the ballot could cure them. One of the most blessed move-
ments of the day was the throwing open of the theatres and
public places for the preaching of the Gospel, and under
these influences truth and sincerity would increase, but,
upon the other hand, how could they expect religion to
improve mankind if they allowed intimidation and fear to
compel men sometimes to vote against their consciencies,
and at other times deterred them from voting at all; There
might be freedom in religion, but there was no freedom in
political life. They wished to push out intimidation, secret
bribery, and fear of voting. It was said that secret voting
would encourage secret lying, inasmuch as people would
often promise and not perform. But at present promises
were often made, and afterwards, from change of circum-
stances, the electors were sorry that they had made these
promises. The only other objection made against secret
voting was this, that it was a protection afforded to cowards,
and that the independent did not need it ; but he had shown
that numbers of the most valuable classes of the community
did not vote all, and that others of them had not even placed
their names on the register. And what other reason could

there be for this, except that which he had indicated ?
On what grounds had they a right to expect that if they
got a secret ballot they would secure protection to the
voter ? If they went back to ancient States they would
find that neither Rome, nor Greece, nor Venice would ever
have risen to the greatness it had attained had it not been
for tke ballot. And if the ballot effected this in Venice,
who would say that it would not produce the same results

in this country, where there was quite as great a necessity
for economy in the expenditure of public money as there
was in Venice. The noble lord quoted from the narrative
of an English, gentleman attached to an embassy sent by
this country to Venice in 1696, to show the beneficial
effects of the ballot. But he need not go to Venice for
proofs, he found them in the reports of the proceedings of
their lordships' house in 1703, when they elected most
important commissioners by ballot to inquire into the state
of the public accounts of the kingdom. Why should that
not be equally efficacious in the election of members of the
other house of Parliament ? In asking for the adoption
of the ballot, he asked for no novelty, because he found
that in one borough in Hampshire the elections were
taken by ballot in the time of William( 111, with the best
possible results to all parties concerned. If it worked
well in one borough, why should it not in all ? These
were a few of the reasons which had induced him to
bring the subject before their lordships. He believed
that the facts were such as to induce even those who did
not agree-with him to unite with him in thinking that the
question was at least one which deserved consideration,
and that it wits of the greatest importance that the
bribery, corruption, intimidation, and drunkenness, which
he had shown to exist, should be put down, and he believed
that could only be done by the ballot. If they refused to

adopt the remedy he proposed they were bound to provide
sOUn ether, and with then view he pegged to moyp 9A4it

it is expedient in the election of members to serve in Parlia-
ment that the votes of the electors be taken by secret ballot.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he had listened with
great attention to the noble lord's address of an hour and
a half, but was at a loss to see how he established any con-
nexion between the evils he had put before their lordships
and the remedy he propoeed. He had quoted some pre-
cedents ef the tithe of William and of Anne ; but the ballot
there spoken of had no more to do with secret voting than
had the ballot adopted in the other house for, the appoint-
ment of committees, or that ballot which took place on the
first day of the session to determine which of the Commons
should have the opportunity of hearing her Xajesty's most
gracioas speech. (Hear, hear.).
,The noble lord said that
the ballot would tell as much in favour of the Conservative
party as of any other. The noble lord was perfeptly right.
He (the Duke of Newcastle) did not oppose the ballot from
any party view, or because it would have a democratic ten-
dency. He believed that there was as much intimidation
on the democratic side as on the other. (Hear; hear.) IVere
there no other objection they might agree to the noble lord'S
resolution without a division. But he looked upon it not
as a party question, but amoral and social question, and a
political 'question apart from party considerations. There
were three great examples of the working of the bal-
lot—on the Continent of Europe, especially in France—in
the United States—and in our great Australian colonies.
The noble lord had not touched much upon France; but in
that country the ballot had been adopted as a means of re-
sisting the influence of the Government, and yet these was
an entire suppression of any free expression of opinion.
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord had entirely overlooked the
United States ; and he was quite right ; for there the ballot
was not secret voting, but a mere system of voting by ticket-
In one State the secret ballot was adopted, but it only lasted
a yeah; and at this moment the secret ballot did not exist in
America. He believed that among a z ace of British origin
it never would be found to work successfully, or even with-
out producing greater evils than those which it was meant
to rectify.' The opinion in favour of the ballot was by no
means so strong in the Australian colonies,as many People
supposed ; but if it were successful anywhere it was in 'Vic-
toria. But was the example of a few years in a colony like
that to be our guide ? Looking at the different conditions
of society here and in the colony, and at the absence in' the
latter of those great vested interests which existed at
home, could any one say, even if after a few years' ex-
perience the ballot had proved successful in Ahs-
tralia, that it would be safe to try it here ? He knew no t
whether the noble lord wished the ballot to be optional or,
compulsory. If it were made compulsory, the principle
mast be carried out to its legitimate conclusion, and ;t must
be made penal not only for a man to give his vote openly,
but to tell how he had given it afterwards. They must alter
the whole system of elections—abolish, canvassing, forbid
election committees, do away with nomination days and the
display of hands, and forbid the employment of solicitors.
(A laugh.) Such a system of subserviency to secrecy could
never be maintained in' this country. If the ballot were
optional, how would it effect the object desired ? A majority
on either side would go and vote openly; and in all great
Constituencies it would be more easy than ever to intimi-
date and bribe. An elector would be told, "The great ma-
jority of the voters vote openly ;'and. if you don't do so, we
shall know that you are voting against us." The noble lord
said thht no law had yeti reached intimidation. But was it
not much less rife than it was 30 yairs ago ? And why ?
The noble lord said tbo law could not touch it; but some-
thing had touched it; and that ,was the improved moral
sense of the country. These motives, if allowed to operate,
would be far 'more effectual than any law they might pass
in favour of the ballot-box or any (ether scheme. As to
bribery, it was proved to demonstration that secret voting
would give increased facilities for it. The effect would be
that the law attorneys in each town would carry on elec-
tions as they best knew how; candidates would say to elec-
tors, "If you vote for me I will pay you ; if not, I will not
pay you"—(hear, hear)—and the last evils of bribery would
be worse than the first. He (the Duren of Newcastle) be-
lieved that he should be best consultbag the feeling of their
lordships' house by not prolonging kin observations on this
subject, particularly as during the many yeers he had sat in
the House of Commons he had heard the questions° often dis-
cussed that he felt he should be trespassing upon their lord-
ships' patience if he were to go through the trite arguments
which mustbe already sowellknowntathem. He would say,
however, thus much—that he considered personal responsi-
bility to be one of the greatest featntres of constitutional
government—(hear, hear)—and if they were to grant the
ballot, they would be depriving the electors of the com-
munity of this privilege. The vote of every man, he thought,
must be considered as a trust—if not strictly in the legal,
yet in moral and political sense of the word. A man's vote
was given to him to be exercised for the public good ; and
it was right that ho should be made responsible for it, by
beinuubmitted to tke course of public opinion. Their lord-
ships' votes were a trust also : they were responsible for
them to public opinion ; and he must say he thought that
an attempt to take their lordships' votes in that way would
be as distasteful to the public as it undoubtedly would be to
their lordships. If they did away with the sense of re-
sponsibility, and the influence of public opinion, they would
be striking a great blow at freedom its elf, and taking ono of
the surest steps possible towards demoralising the people.
He thought that the force of public opinion should be
brought to bear still More strongly upon the practices at
elections which had occasioned so much astonishment and
scandal. Their lordships had done a great deal already ; let
them only persevere in the same course, and he believed they
might anticipate—if not in their own lifetime, yet before
any great lapse of years, a state of things in which a man
might be able to vote without the servile fear of any tyran-
nical interference, without seeking to throw secrecy like a
cloak of darkness over his proceedings, as being his only
safeguard and security. (Hear.) •
The LORD CHANCELLOR then put the resolution to
thahouse, and their lordships divided, when there appeared
in the minority three noble lords, besides the tellers, the
Earl de Grey and Lord. Teynham.
Before the announcement of the numbers,
The Earl of DERBY rose, but immediately afterwards,
on being reminded by the Lord Chancellor of the forms of
the house, took his seat and addressed their lordships sitting,
as did the other noble lords who took part in the subsequent
conversation. The noble earl said that before the numbers
were announced he wished to call their lordships' attention
to the fact, that while the question was being put, hi be-
lieved one of the noble lords who acted as teller, and two
w2lO voted, were out of the house. He believed that in order
to be, entitled to vote it was necessary that peers should be
within the.house when the question -was put.
The Earl of MALMESBITRYconIInned the observation
of the Earl of Derby.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the rule was as
the noble earl (Derby) had stated it to be.
The Earl DE GREY and RIPON- acknowledged that he
was not within the technical limits df the house when the
question was put.
Lord BELPER explained that Lord Llanover and him-
self, the two ether noble lords referred to, were standing
outside the partition when the question was begun to be
put ; but before it was concluded they had stepped within
the boundary, and had taken their seats at the back of the
bishops' bench.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that as the Earl ,de
Grey had admitted that ho was not present his vote must be
struck out; but he presumed the noble earl would not press
his objection with. regard to the two other noble lords who
had stated' that they were present whilst the resolution was
read.
The Earl of DERBY said he had no wish to press the
objection. He only wished to call their lordships attention
to the circumstance.
The vote of the Earl de Grey was then cancelled, 'after
which the numbers stood thus—
Contents 4
Non-contents
The resolution was consequently lost.
SELLING AND HAWKING GOODS, &c., ON
SUNDAY BILL.
Lord CHELMSFORD moved the second reading of this

bill.
The bill was then read a second time.
ATTORNEYS, SOLICITORS, PROCTORS, AND

CERTIFICATED CONVEYANCERS BILL.
VALUATION OF RATEABLE PROPERTY
(IRELAND) BILL.
These bills were read a third time and passed ; and their
lordships adjourned at 25 minutes past 7.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Great Western Railway, Hedon Corporation and Borough.
Improvement, Wem and Bronygarth Roads, and York Im-
provement, &c.
The following bills were considered and ordered for third
reading :—Ambergatc, Nottingham, and Boston and Eas-
tern Junction Railway and Canal Company; Cheshiro Mid-
land Railway ; East Somerset Railway ; Glossop and
Marple Bridge Road.; London and North-Western Rail-
way (No. 1) ; London and North-Western Railway (No.
2) •, Marple New Mills and Hayfield Junction Railway ;
Midland Railway (Burton-upon-Trent Branches and De-
viations) ; Mirfield Gas ; North British and Peebles and
Jedburgh Railway Companies; Oxford, Worcester, and
Wolverhampton arid Severn Valleys Railway ; Oxford,
Worcester, and Wolverhampton, Newport, Abergavenny,
and Hereford, and 'Worcester and Hereford Railways ;
Stockport and Woodley Junction Railway; and Manches-
ter and Buxton Road.
The following bills were read a second time :—Bucks
County Rate, Croydon Gas, and Sheffield Cutlers'
Company.

THE QUEEN'S REPLY TO THE ADDRESS ON
THE COMMERCIAL. TREATY.

Lord CASTLEROSSE brought up the reply of her
most gracious Majesty to the Address presented on Satur-
ty tho mbject 91 t 14,1 Frello4 0111.41ercia treaty,