The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.)

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE BILL.
Mr. BENTINCK then moved—" That it be an instruc-
tion to the committee that they have power to make provi-
sion for the better prevention of bribery and corruption at
elections." He contended that the effect of the proposed Re-
form Bill would be to promote bribery and corruption at
elections. He concluded by moving an instruction.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had no objection whatever
to the introduction of any clauses that would tend to re-
strain and diminish corruption and bribery at elections.
He denied, however, that there was anything in the bill
which he had introduced calculated to promote bribery and
corruption, and that the instruction of the hon. mem-
ber would not have the effect he proposed.
Mr. KNIGHTLEY thought the motion of his hon. friend
the member for Norfolk was deserving the consideration of
the house.
Mr. WILD had listened with much satisfaction to the
remarks of the hon. gentleman the member for Norfolk, and
thought his observations as to the extent of bribery were
very forcible; but when the hon. member moved an in-
struction to the committee on the subject, he regretted that
he did not also move a remedy to cure the evil of bribery
and corruption. Now he (Mr. Wild) would move an
amendment, namely, that the votes at elections be taken by
ballot—(hear, hear)—and he hoped he would have the hon.
gentleman's vote in support of his amendment. The hon.
gentleman stated that bribery existed and was practised in
boroughs, and not in counties, where ho submitted they
had no bribery ; but the hon. gentleman seemed to forget
that they had intimidation in full operation there. Now he
(Mr. Wild) contended that bribery ani corruption existed,
if not in the hon. gentleman's part of the country, certainly
in other parts of it, and to a groat extent. (Hear, hear.)
He, therefore, proposed as a remedy against such practices,
the incorporation of the ballot in the bill of the noble lord
—a bill which he was quite sure would extend instead of
curtail bribery at elections. (Hear.)
The SPEAKER said the hon. member, if he chose, had
power to introduce a clause in committee, or to bring in a
bill on the subject. But at present the hon. member was
out of order.
Mr. MELLOR believed that no man could be more anxi-
ous than he was to see bribery and corruption discouraged,
and by law put an end to ; but he felt that a more inoppor-
tune moment could not be chosen than the present for ob-
truding those matters upon the consideration of the house,
and he had no hesitation in saying that he did not think
the hon. gentleman was sincere in his motion, and that his
object was to defeat the bill of the noble lord.
Lord R. CECIL hoped the house would entertain the
motion of his hon. friend the member for Norfolk, calculated,
as it was, to lessen the danger and the evils that would
otherwise attend hasty and inconsiderate change. (Hear.)
Mr. BO UVERIE could not help thinking that if these
eight pages of amendments should be discussed, the effect
would be to endanger the passing of the bill through the
house, and to prevent it from going to "another place."
(Hear.)

Sir G GREY said his noble friend (Lord J. Russell) had
merely intimated that he had no objection to assent to the
motion for instruction suggested, without pledging himself
to its details. His noble friend had said if the hon. member
should press his amendment on the committee, that he
would net shut him out from doing so; but to that extent
only.

Mr. A. MILLS said that on the part of himself and hon.
gentlemen near him, he disclaimed the imputations
which had been cast upon them by the right honourable
gentlemen oppos.tt. Ire declared conscientiously that it
was monstrous and unfair, when they were sincerely desir-
ous that the bill should be moulded in a form that would
be satisfactory to the country, that it should be imputed to
them that their opposition was based upon a desire to ob-
struct its passing. (Conservative cheers.) Let them make
an effort to improve the representation in the quarter where
it most needed it—viz., in the principles on which hon.
members attempted to obtain the s ffrages of their consti-
tuents. (Hear, hear.) If they voluntarily closed their eyes
to the corrupt tendencies of their own acts, what was the
use of legislating against them ? If they did, however, at-
tempt legislation, let them not merely trust to chance, but
attempt it by a great and comprehensive measure of reform.

Sir J. HANMER thought the best way of putting down
bribery was greatly to extend the franchise, because, accord-
ing to his experience, the most honest of the electors were
the scot and lot voters. (Laughter.) That he could assure
hon. gentleman was a simple fact. (Renewed laughter.)
The hon. gentleman having drawn a comparison-between
bribery and the dry rot, proceeded to remark that it ought
to be treated in a similar manner, by being " put down" as
soon as discovered. (Great laughter.) The best way would
be to put in force the laws against bribery. The process of
disfranchisement ought to be resorted to oftener than at
present, and if that had been done it would have removed
the necessity for that Reform Bill, which was troubling
everybody. (Roars of laughter from the Conservative side.)
As soon as a constituency had been proved to be corrupt, it
should be wholly or partially disfranchised, an the vacant
seat should not be suspended, as in the cases of Sudbury
and St. Alban's, but transferred to a more deserving body of
electors. Had that been done in times past, a considerable
impression would have been made, not only upon corrupt
practices, but upon the representation generally. If a Re-
form Bill were to pass at all, he maintained now, as he had
years ago declared, that the most extensive one was the
best. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. F. H. BERKELEY said that, though he was not
a great admirer of the bill, he would accept it ; but he de-
sired that it should be k own throughout the country that
the obstruction it had met with did not lie on that (the
Government) side of the house. (Opposition cheers and
laughter, and cries of " Oh.") Nothing could be more mean
than the opposition to that bill on the other side. (Cries
of " Order," from the Opposition.)

The SPEAKER having intimated to the hon. gentle-
man, as was understood, that he was not in order in using
the term "mean,"

Mr. F. H. BERKELEY proceeded to say that, correct-
ing himself, nothing could be more improper than the band .
ing together of the great party opposite, and the indirect
manner in which they had opposed it. (sheers.) He said
that after the numerous speeches they had heard, none of
them ending with any resolution whatever, and after the
numerous adjournments they had had, it was rather calling
too much on their credulity to ask them to believe now that
they desired to introduce purity of election as a prominent
feature into the bill, and that that was the reason why they
sought to amend it. The country was aware that the bill
was exceedingly distasteful to the hon. gentlemen opposite,
and that they would do everything in their power to pre-
vent its passing. Something had been said about protect-
ing people by means of voting papers. If the noble lord
were decidedly in earnest in desiring to correct the impuri-
ties that creep into our system of elections, he would not
talk of voting papers, but he would adopt the only real
remedy, namely, the ballot. (Derisive cheers from the
Opposition.) That bill would certainly be thrown out, for
it assuredly could not stand against the delays that had
arisen in its progress. It was perfectly understood that it
would be thrown out by indirect means. He did not think
the Government were in fault. (Ironical cheers.) They
had done their best to pass it. (Renewed cheers from the
Opposition.) All he would say was, let those hon. gentle-
men who thought proper to reject it take the consequences
with the people on their own shoulders.
Mr. COLLINS thought that the expenses of "purify-
ing the country" should beborne by the Consolidated Fund.
Were that done, the constituencies would become more
guarded in their conduct at elections.

Lord J. MANNERS protestedagainst the charge which
had been brought against the party with which he had the
honour and the privilege to act, and said if there had been
any unnecessary delay in the progress of the bill through
the house, it was to be:attributed, not to hon. gentlemen on
that (the Conservative) side of the house—but to the un-
popularity which had attended it from the day of its in-
troduction. (Conservative cheers.)
Mr. A. STEUART said it was admitted that the pro-
posed instruction to the committee should be agreed to, but
he thought something more was expected on the part of
the Government than a bare admission of that description.
It was the duty of the noble lord, after what had been as-
certained with regrrd to corruption in municipal elections,
to bring in a special enactmentparo passu with the Reform
Bill to put an end to those nefarious practices.
After a few words from Mr. Slaney, Mr. D. Griffith, and
Mr. Farquhar, the motion was negatived without a division.
There were two other instructions to the committee on
the paper, in the names of the hon. members for Waterford
and Athlone, relative to a uniform oath to be administered
to all members on taking their seats ; but the Speaker
having declared them to be out of order, they were with-
drawn.
3. RVSSELL—I now rise to move that the house
Lord
go into committee on this bill, and in doing so I cannot re
-
fain from noticing the objections that have been
made, not
in this house but out of doors, to our proceeding withthis
b 11, and stating the course which the Government intend
to take. Now in the first place I will answer a question
which was asked some time ago by an hon. gentleman sit-
ting on this side of the house. He asked me whether it was
our intention to proceed with the Scotch and Irish bills in
the course of the present session. I could not give him an
answer at the time, but I stattd I would on a future occa-
sion tell him the views of the Government on the subject
I now say, that considering that according to our opinion
the English bill should go into committee, and that th
franchise to be settled by that bill should be agreed upon,
and in fact assented to by Parliament before those bills are
proceeded with, we cannot expect that we can proceed with
either the Scotch or the Irish bills in the course of the pre-
sent session. (Hear.) That, however, does not appear to
us to be any reason for not proceeding with the bill that
stands for committee this evening. (Hear, hear.) With
regard to the present bill, I must state the position of th
Government and of this house in respect to it. lam not
going to state the position of cne side of the house or the
other—to make any reproach to the other side of the house
with regard to their conduct as to this bill ; but I am going
to state the position of the house generally, including both
sides, on this question. In doing do so I wish seriously to
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