The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-08 00:00:00

THE !SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JUNE 8, 1860.

BRITISH POSSESSIONS.

Share Railways. Paid. Closing
Frice.
100 Atlantic &St Lawrence all 85 87 su
1 Bom.,Baroda&.Cent Indl ' B6isinessdone
stk lOO 964 971 it
( Gu. 5 par cent.. .... .1
18 Do, Do.
cent........
13/ id Id
20/ Buffalo and Lake Huron' all 41 5 d
201 Do. New
10 Do. Preference 1 all 61 64
100 1 Butfalo,Brant,&Godrich' 100 75 80 •
6 p. et. bds. Aug. 1, 1872
100 Do. do. July 1, 1873 100 70 75 -
100 Do. do. June 1, 1874 100 68 73
5 Clcutta.&S.Eastn. (Lim) 1. 30. 1 d I p
20 Cape,Eastn.Prov. (Lim.) 28.
20 Cape Town & Dock Scrip 3s. 21 11 d
20 Ceylon Guarantd. 6p. c 74 18 1 d :61
171 Demerara all
20 Eastn. Bengal gu. sp. c 5 1 /d 41
stock East Indian, gu. sp. c. 100 102 1024 1021 421
20 Do. F Shares Ext lO par 1 p :151
20 Do. Jubbulpore —. ~
100 Do. 41 pc. Debentrs all " 984 094
stock Do. sp. c. Deb., 1864 all 101 102
20 Geelong & Melbourne all 21 22
Geelong Corporation 6
sto. 100
per cent. Bonds
stock Grand Trunk of Canada 100 311 321 311 1
100 Do. 6 per cent. Pref all 91 93
100 Do. 6 per ct. Debentr all 60 63 611 1
100 Do. 7 per cent. 1862
100 Do. do. 1867 all 65 70
100 Do. do. 1872 all 65 70
stock Gt.lndiaPenin.gua.sp.c lOO 991 1001 1004 1
20 Do. New gua. sp. c 6 1 d 1 d :51
20 Gt. South.of India (Lim) 10 11 lid b
guaranteed 5 per cent.
20/ Gt. W. of Canada Shares all • 127, 121
20/ Do. New
100 Do. Bonds pay. '76' will' all 98 100
opt, till '6O
100 Do. do. '73 till '6O. all 98 100
100 Do. do. '73 without opt. all 98 100
100 Do. 51 p. c. do. '77 do.
stock Madras, guar., 41 p. c lOO 88 90
stock Do. do. 5 per cent..
stock Do. 41 p. c. Extension 100 91 93
20 Do. Fourth do .. 10 14 4 d
20 Do. d 0..... _ .... all
stock Melb.corp. 6p. c. Bnds. 100
Newßrunswick & Canda
20 Ry.&Land(Lim.)g.6pc
Class A Capital Share all 5 7
Do. do. Land do,. ....
20 Do. do. B Capital d 0... all 5 7
Do. do. Land do. ......
20 Oude (Limited) ........ ss.
stock Scinde
20 Do. Pnnjaub ....) LI ,a 1 all 11 d 1 d
20 Do. Do.
stork Do. Indus.St Flo. r,,,..4 100 95 91
20 St. A ndrews & Quebec A 18
10 Trinidad (Lim.) Scrip.. 1 1 f d
FOREIGN RAILWAYS.
19 Antwerp & Rotterdam all 44 41
20 !Ardennes ............ all —p
20 IBah.&S.Fran Lim.7 p.c. 7 i id
5 elgian East Junction all t 1
20 Beziers to Graissessac.. all
10 Buen.Ayres &S. Ferndo 24 p
13
6 Carmeaux Mine & Rail all 21 24
100 Copiabo ...... & ...... all
10 Ditto Extension .... all 11 1 d
20 Dutch Rhenish ........ 15 51 5 d
20 Eastern of France .... all 234 24
20 Grand Rus. Guar. 6p. c 6
20 Do. do. all
20 Great Central of France all
20 Gt. Luxem., Con. shs... all 61 61
20 Italian Junction .. ... all
20 Lake Constance & Bale. all
20 Lierre & Turnhout .... all
20 Lyons & Geneva. ...... all
334 Maria Antonia ........ all
10 Do. New ............ all
20 Namur & Liege ........ all 81 .81
20 Do. 6p. c. Pref. ........ all 191 194
16 Northern of France.... all 381 391
20 Do. New Shares ...... 12 p
10 Norwegian Trunk Pref. all 8 9
20 l'aris,Lyons, & Mediter. all 311 341
20 Paris & 0r1ean5........ all 52 54
20 Recife &S. Fran. (Fern.)
gua. 7p. ct. Hrn...... 13 2 lid
20 Riga & Dunaburs...... 10
10 Rome & Frascati ...... all
20 Royal Danish .. .... all 13 15
5 Royal Swedish ........ all
4 Do. 7 per cent. Pref.... all
20 Sambre & Meuse . .
10 Do. 54 per cent. Pref all 84 81
20 San Paulo, lira, g. 7p. c 2 f id 14
20 S.Aust &Lomb Venetin 12 Id Ip
20 Southern of France all 20 2(
81 West Flanders
10 Do. 61 p. c. Preference.. all 94 9
20 W. & N.W. of France .. all 22 23
20 Western of Austria.... 6
20 Western of Switzerland all
6 Wiesbaden ...* .. . . .... all
6 Do. 8 per cent. Pref.... all
20 Zeal ,nd

BRITISH MINES.

Share[ Mines,

I A lire 1 Consols (Philack)
British Iron
Clifford
Devon G. Cons. (Tavist )
East Bassett (Illogan)
East Caradon
E. W'l Russel (Tavistk )
Gam.&St.Aubyn(Gwen )
!Great South Tolgus
}G.Wheal Alfd. (Philack)
G. Wheal Vor (Helston)
Grenville
Herod's- Foot
!Hingston Downs
!Lady Bertha
!M irgarct (Uny Lelant)
North Downs
(North Frances (Illogan)
Basset (1110 an)!
'North Wheal Crofty
iPar Consols (St. Blazey)
Providence (Uny Lelnt.)
ISortridcre Cons. Min. Co.
'South Caradon(St.Cleer)
S. Carn Brea (Illogan)
; S. Dev. Iron &Gen., Lim.
.g.Wht,alPrfin (I llagart)
Stray Park
Tam.ir Silv.& Lead Min.
Tin Croft
Vale of Towey (Carm )
West Basset (Illogan)
Caradon (Liskeard)
'West Seaton
'Wheal Basset (Mogan)
Wheal Buller (Redruth)
'Wheal Edward (Cals.)
Wheal Kitty (U.Lelant)
Wheal Mary Ann (Men.)
!Wheal
Trelawney (Lis.),

Paid. I Closing Business
Price. Done.

31 41
1 2
270 280
445 455
110: 115
8 61
11 11
39 41
121 13
11 lf
3 u 1
29 31

17;
12.13.9
I ,1
5.14.6
8.12
4.7.0
1.8.6

31 41
21 21
44 45
9

4 5-
5 6
8i 9
124 13
44 45

9.18.0
1*
10.6.7
12s

1i 11
295 305

all
1R 1

1 31 1
1k
1(74 17.41
51 53 1

26 21
46 5
186 106
72 75
330 340
150 160
00 100
2?. 311:
141 15
22 24
26 28 I

13s 6d
2.4
5
47.
51

1.7:2

FOREIGN MINES.

20 Australian
1 BonAccord Copper,Lim. 15s p p
35 Brazil. Imp. (is. at £ p.) 274
20 Do.St.Johndel Rey,Lim 15 29 ' :30 29;
5 Do. Land and Mining Co. all
1 Clarendon Cons.MinCo. 4
dis.
40 Cobre Copper all 42 44
Copiapo l6 11 13
1 DunMoun.Cop.Ming.Co all 1
2 Fortuna.
20 General all 23 25
2 'Gt. N. Cop. of S. Austr 1 d par
14 Kapunda (Limited) 1 15 10 p 24
3 Linares all 101 111 11 104
5 Lusitanian 2 4 d p
1 Mariquita all
1 ,N.RhineCopofS.Aus.L los. 5 d p
20 IPontgibaud Silver,Lead
I Mining and Smelt all 5 6
5 IPort Philip 1
1 Scottish Austrin. (L.) los, I d p
28.2•84 United Mexican . ail 15 2
1 Worthing (Limited) , all t
1 Do
JOINT-STOCK BANKS.
100 Ap;ra&UnitedService Bk 50
40 Australasia all :65
25 Bank of Egypt all 211 221
100 Bank of London
20 Bank of Turkey 3 11
50 British North American all 514
20 Chtd.Bank of India, .tc. all 19; 20
25 Ch. Mer. of In. Lon.& Ch. all 30 32
100 City
100 Colonial
20.11 Corn. Bank of Canada all
100 Commercial of London
20 Eng., Scot., k, A us. Ch all 16 16;
20 Gen. Bk .of Switzerland all
20 Lon. Char.Bkof Austral all , 231 234 :23;
50 London and County
50 London Joint Stock
100 Louden & Westm.nster 20 614
100 Nat. Prov. of England . 35 95
20 Do. new
50 National Bank ........ 25
20 ,New South Wales. all I
20 Do. new
25 'Orient. B. Corporation
20 'Ottoman Bank .. .
100 IProv ncial of Ireland 25 88;
10 'Do. new
25 South Australia
25 Union of Australia
50 lUnfon o' London l2 241
100 ,Unity Mutual.. 60
GOVERNMENT ZECURITIES.
Can. Gov. 6 p.c.Ja. &July 100 114 116
Do. 6p. cent. 188, 100 -
- Do. 6p. cent. 1881 100 -
- Do. 6p. cent. 1882 100 -
- Do. 6p. c. Feb. & Aug. 100 1110 112
Do. 6p. c. Msr. & Sept. 100 1110 112
r Do. 5 per cent lOO 102 102;
I
t Do. Scrip 42 —
N.B.Gov. °p.c. Ja.&July, 100 108 109
Do. op. c. Ap. & Oct.l 100
N. S. W. Gov. sp. c., 1866 100 100 101
Do. sp. c., 1871 to 1876 100 100 101
Do. 5 p.c.:1888 & upwds 100 100 101
Nova Scotia Gov. 6p. c.l
sterling, 1875 1 100 1108 109
S.Aus.Gt. 6 p.c.1878 &up. 100 110 112
Vic. Gov. 0 p.c. Ja.&July 100 I
- Do. do. 6 p.c. Ap.&Oct. 100 4065 107; 107;

1000

MISCELLANEOUS.

Anglo-Mexican Mint
Atlantic Tel. (Limited)
'Australian Agricultural
,Berlin Water (Limited)
'British American Land!
,8.&1.Mag,. Tel. A. (Lim.),
IDo. 8,7p.c.ti111852 (Lim.)'
Do. C. (Limited)
Canada Land
Chan.lslands Tel. (Lim )
Cop. Min.ofEng. Smltg ,
Do. Pref. '74 per cent. '
Crystal Palace
Do. Preference
Do. 5 p. c. Perpet. Deben.
Electric Telegraph
Do. New
English & Aus. Copper
Gen. Steam Navigati )n
Great Ship (Limited)
Do. 17i p. et. Preference
Indian & Aust. Telegr.
Lon. District Tel. (Lim.)
'London Discount (Lim.)
L.G. Omnibus Co. (Lim.)
'Madras Irr. and Canal
IMediter. Electric Teleg.
'Med. Exten. Tel. (Lim.)
National Dis. Co. (lAm.l
iNerbu.Coal&lron (Lim )
!Netherlands Land
Do.B p.c.Pref..iss.atl dis.
N. Br:&NovaScotiaLand
IN. B.Australasian (Lim.)
'Oriental Gas (Limited).
Do. New Shares (Lim.) .
Orintl.ln.Steam(Lim.)A
Ditto B.

13& 144

301 311
41 5

37 39
19 21
13 15
120 125
6 8
2 2 27
24} 251
31 34
98 100
103 106
106 108
p 1 p
24 2f

321
10
stock
25
stock
stock
stock
stock

1
id ip

11 d
1 Oid
11 li
2 31, p

1 ct

10 l5

stook

100
stock

i;
1
i id

Ditto C
Peelß.Lnd.&Min.(Lim )
Pen. & Oriental Steam
Do. New
Red Sea& In d. T
Rhymney Iron
Do. New
'Royal Mail Steam
Scot. Austin. Inv. (Lim )
,South Australian Land
i Submarine Tel. Scrip
Do. do. Registered
Tr. & Ln. Co.ofUpr.Can.
Van Diemen'a Land

100
all
all
all
5
281

45 48
75 78
13 15 p
id p
20 22
5 6
soi 511
120 130

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack a
five o'clock.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Sovereign Life Assurance, the Consett District
Water, Abergavenny Improvements, London and Brighton
and South Coast Railway (Croydon to Balhara-hill) bills
wore read a second time. _ _ _

The Tenbury and Bewdley Railway Bill was read a third
time arid passed.

CHURCH RATES.

Earl DE GREY presented petitions from Huddersfield
and other places, in favour of the abolition of church-
rates. _ _

EDUCATION IN INDIA.

The Bishop of OX FORD presented a petition from Slough,
praying that the Bible might be introduced into any sys-
tem for the education of the natives of India.
ENDOWED CHARITIES.

The LORD CHANCELLOR laid on the table a bill for
the regulation of endowed charities. The noble and learned
lord said the bill was founded on the report of the Commis-
sioners appointed to inquire into the subjec'.
Lord CRANWORTH and Lord BROUGHAM said a few
words in favour of the bill, which was read a first time.
DIVORCE COURT.

Lord BROUGHAM • made a few observations with
respect to this court, the construction of which he
thought was susceptible of great improvement. The
learned judge who presided conducted the court in the
highest manner; but he (Lord Brougham) was of opinion
that a court empowered to pronounce a decree dissolving
marriage ought to be presided over by three judges at the
least. With respect to expenses attendant on such a pro-
ceeding, the return which he should move for would show
that there were from £12,000 to £13,000 paid over annually
to the Consolidated Fund from the fees of the Court of
Probate and Divorce.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said there would
be no objection to the returns moved for by the
noble and learned lord, but in the event of an additional
number of judges being required for the proper dispatch of
business in this court, he thought the question of expense
ought not to stend in the way.
TRUSTEES AND MORTGAGEES, &c., BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
SIR T. BARNARD'S ACT REPEAL BILL.

This bill was read a second time, on the motion of Earl
GRANVILLE.

SALE OF GAS ACT AMENDM ENT BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.

Lord TEYNHAM then moved the following resolu-
tions :—" That this house, greatly desiring the settlement
of the question of Parliamentary Reform, for the satisfac-
tion of men's minds, for the sake of the peace of the coun-
try, and that the business of Parliament may be pro-
ceeded with without let, is willing to give its most careful
consideration to the prayer of the petitions which hav e
been presented to it in favour of manhood suffrage and vote
by ballot; this being the broadest basis for the elective
franchise which has been presented to it by petition : That
this house hopes to discern them who for any reason ought
not to be allowed a vote, and to point out means whereby
improper persons may be deprived of the franchise after it is
legally possessed ; so that, on the one hand, no man shall
be left without the franchise against whom no just or suf-
ficient reason for his disfranchisement can be assigned;
and, on the other hand, no man shall be put on the list
of voters, or continued thereon, against whom just
grounds of disfranchisement can be alleged and proved :
That this house is, therefore, prepared to recommend such
alterations in the criminal, vagrant, and poor laws as shall
appear necessary to cut off from the register of voters all
improper persons. In this way the house hopes to grant
the spirit of the prayer of its petitioners for manhood suf-
frage and vote by ballot, not only without detriment to the
common weal, but with great advantage to the same."
The noble lord said that besides the few petitions he then
lad the honour to present to their lordships, in an earlier
part of the session he had presented very numerous peti -
tions, principally from Northumberland and Cumberland, in
favour of universal suffrage and vote by ballot, and from
other parts of the country in favour of the ballot alone.
Deeply conscious of his weakness and incompetence
to perform the task he had undertaken, he had ven-
tured to address their lordships, sheltered by the peti-
tions of the people. At the same time he must candidly
admit that ho fully adopted those statement 4, and in the
remarks which he was about to address to their lord-
ships, he wished to be understood that he fully approved
in his conscience the truth and justice of the cause he was
advocating There were formerly colonies of this country
which it pleased Parliament, iu their wisdom, to endeavour
to tax. The people of these colonies—not of one or of some,
but of all thirteen put together—rose in:opposition to that
attempt. They were told that in like manner there was a
very large number of unrepresented persons in the United
Kingdom who were in the same position, and who not-
withstanding all that had been said and done, were like so
many dead men's bones. But the experience of the United
States bade him hone better things concerning them
namely, that the same views would breathe life into these
dead men's bones. In the contest for truth, in the struggle
for justice, almost uniformly the battle was of the weak
against the strong—eventually the weak had triumphed.
Now the unrepresented in England were weak and poor;
yet history led to the belief that better hopes might not in
vain be entertained for them. He had therefore ventured to
undertake the cause of the unrepresented in their lordships'
house, feeling that if he did not, it was not likely that an-
other would take his place. (Hear.) The sum and substance
of his motion was this—that their lordships would be will-
ing to give their most careful consideration to the prayer of
the petitioners in favour of universal suffrage and vote by
ballot ; and if their lordships thought fit, that a select
committee or royal commission might bo appointed to in-
quire into what was necessary to be done in order that
the prayer of the petition might be granted. In
an eloquent speech recently made by Mr. Gladstone,
he had fully admitted the right of the governed to make
choice of their governors. In that sentiment he fully
agreed, and at the same time he congratulated the Univer-
sity of Edinburgh on the choice which they had recently
made by the selection of so able and eloquent a man as
Mr. Gladstone to be their rector. The petitions which he
had presented had in many instances been signed only by
the chairman presiding at public meetings, who thus repre-
sented the views of hundreds and thousands of persons. A
common idea seemed to prevail that the unrepresented were
—if he might use the expression—represented by those who
were represented, and that Parliament had become the
trustee for a majority of the Teeple. On this subject ho
would venture to remind their lordships of what had been
said by Burke. (Tho noble lord read several passages from
ene of Burke's speeches, and continued.) Let their lord-
ships only compare the circumstances under which they
were then_met and those under which Edmund Burke ad-
dressed the other House of Parliament. At that time there
were some hundred thousand descendants of the people of
...ountry living beyond the sea whom it was endeavoured
to tax ; but the attempt was resisted, and the result of the
conflict was crowned with success. He therefore prayed their
lordships to grant his plea to-day. He begged to direct their
attention tb the way in which universal suffrage bad been
presented to the human mind. In every age and time the
greatest truths haftneen taught by means of fables, and
their lordships remniAbered the parable of the trees
who met to choose a king, and when the olive
and the vine were asked to reign, they refused,
Finally, as they well knew, the choice fell upon the
bramble. Next to the sacred writings, he might refer to
Shakspeare, and the language put into the mouth of Brutus
in Julius Caesar would occur to their lordships' recollection.
It might be said that the right to vote was merely an ab-
stract one; but abstract or not it was a right, and being a
right might be pleaded, and being pleaded it was one to
which just men would give heed. The doctrine of univer-
sal suffrage was taught anologically by the arms borne by
the different republics, in which equal prominence was
given to the symbol of each state. Thus in the Helvetic
Confederation each can ton was represented by two depu-
ties, and its arms consisted. of a circle enclosing a number
of smaller circles, one for each canton. The arms of the
Dutch republic were a bundle of arrows, with the legend
" Concordia res parvse crescunt ; discordia maxims° diruun-
tur." The stars and stripes of the United States conveyed
the same lesson; and so careful were the founders of that
republic to preserve the connexion between taxation and
representation, that only twelve of the thirteen states gua-
ranteed one of their earliest paper transactions, the repre-
sentative of the thirteenth happening to have been absent
when the issue was determined upon. He now came to
universal suffrage as it existed in the church of God. The
judicious Hooker, in hi▪ s great work on the Laws of Eccle-
siastical Polity, said that the natural origin of power to
make laws civil was the commonwealth, and so the natural
origin of laws ecclesi▪
astical was the entire body of the
church; for equals could not impose statutes upon their
equals. Nevertheless, in England, where all men were
equal before the law, the represented took upon themsel' es
to impose laws upon the unrepresented, which Hooker said
they could not do. Archbishop Whitgift, in his answer to
the Admonition in 1572, admitted that in tho Apostolic
times, and down even to the times of Cyprian, the people
had a voice in the appointment of their ministers, and that
they sometimes made a right good choice. He (the noble
lord) thought that in temporal matters the people would
be still more likely to make suitable appointments ; and it
was certainly a libel to imagine that they wished to
obtain or retain their liberty without putting
themselves to any expense. In France, although
revolutions were frequent, there were certain principles
on which the people, whenever they obtained their liberty,
invariably insisted. Amongst these universal suffrage
always found a place. Garibaldi, in his address to the
Sicilians, called on them all to arm, and he signed his
name, " G. Garibaldi, General of the Romans, appointed
by a government elected by universal suffrage." Well
done,universal suffrage He would now call their lord-
ships' attention to what had been the practice in England
for many years with regard to the suffrage. In the 28th of
Edward I. he read that " the King had granted unto his
people thlat they should have an election of their sheriff in
every shire." That involved universal suffrage. Then by
the 7th of Henry IV. it was enacted that "proclamation

Ishould be made in every county of the name and place of
holding a parliament, and that all who might be there
should attend to the election of their knights for the par-
liament, and that in the full county they should proceed to
the election freely and indifferently." Though there were
limits in the borough at this period, universal suffrage
prevailed in the counties, in proof of which he might quote
the preamble to a statute of Henry VI., which stated that
"elections had been made by a great and excessive number
of people dwelling within the counties, and who, for the
most part, were people of small substance, and of no value,
every one of whom pretended to have a voice equivalent
to the most worthy knights and esquires;" and then the
40s. freehold qualification was enacted. Now, he con-
tended that an act of parliament might be void ab initio ;
Parliament might exceed its duty, and pass acts which
were not legal. On this point he would give
authorities, and the first he would quote was an American
authority, "Clinton's Digest of Decisions," in which there
was this passage,—" The Legislature is not supreme ; it is
only one of the organs of the absolute sovereignty which
resides in the whole body of the people, and when it steps
beyond that boundary its acts, like those of the most humble
magistrate who transcends his jurisdiction, are utterly void."
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he could not allow it to
be stated that an act of the Legislature which had received
the Royal assent had not the full force of law. The noble
lord quoted an American authority which did not apply to
this country.
Lord TEYNHAM said he v,-euld quote an English autho-
rity, and that was Lord Coke, who said, "In many cases
the common law will control acts of Parliament, and ad.
judge them to be utterly void; as, when an act of Parlia-
ment is against common right and reason, the common law
shall control it." Now, he asked, if legislation could go be-
yond its boundaries, was legislation with regard to the fran-
chise one of those occasions? He must again fall back upon
Amei ican authority. In the seventh article of the constitu-
tion of the state of New York it was provided that no one
should be deprived of his franchise and privileges but in
accordance with common law, aid Justice Story said fun-
damental principles seem to require that the right of pro-
perty should be held sacred, and that the rights of the people
should not be taken away from them without a strong ex-
pression of the will of the people. Parliament, however,
acted without any expression of the will of the people in
taking away their franchise, and he contended that Parlia-
ment exceeded its duty in the time of Henry VI., when it
took away the right of the people to vote in counties. He
thought the people should set forth in theirpetition that they
gave no authority to Parliament to deprive them of their
votes, and they should ask that that and the other
acts which hung upon it should be repealed.
There was an appeal from Parliament to the
common law, and he thought the unenfranchised
should choose an irreproachable man living in a county, and
on his behalf plead in a court of common law to have his
name put upon the register, though the statute of Henry
VI. did not permit it. The first Parliament of King
Charles 11. passed an act declaring the Parliament then
sitting a lawful Parliament, notwithstanding, any want of
writs, or other defect ; and the first Parliament of William
and Mary also passed an act to the like effect, and if the
non-electors, when they had failed in their petitions and
failed in their application to the courts of common law,
were to choose their own representatives, and those repre-
sentatives assembled at Westminster and called themselves
the Commons House of Parliament, he questioned very
much whether it would not in deed and in truth be the
Commons House of Parliament; and it might be that not
in two instances, but in three, it might be read by their
children hereafter that a Parliament, summoned not by
ordinary writ, met at Westminster, and determined itself
to be the Parliament then and there. His notice of motion
referred to the practical manner in which the question ought
to be dealt 'with. He thought they ought not to give, as
in France, the vote to persons in the army and the navy,
nor should it be granted to criminals or paupers. He would
not detain their lordships long on the question of the ballot,
but he was bound to 'refer to it as it was part of his motion.
The ballot was not only used in certain cases by the House
of Commons in the reign of Queen Anne, but in the reign
of Queen Elizabeth it was employed by the Presbyterians
of Northamptonshire, who were by no means a cowardly
set of people. Then how could it be said to be un-English,
when it was still resorted to in the reign of Queen -Victoria
by our fellow-Englishmen the colonists of Australia ? He
allowed that the electoral franchise was a trust ; but the
voter should therefore be enabled fairly and fearlessly to
discharge that trust. He was acting judicially when he had
to decide on the fitness of a candidate, and for his conduct in
that capacity he could not legally be called to account, so
that there was no ground for making his vote public.., In
conclusion, the noble lord said he regretted that had seen
his duty to trespass so long on their lordships' atten,t,...ffn
moving these resolutions. The sum of what he askerwas
that they should pledge themselves to give to the pe,titions
their serious consideration.

Earl GRANVILLE said it was impossible to have heard
the noble lord without acknowledging the earnestness and
sincerity with which he had advocated the doctrines he
considered so important to the future welfare of the coun-
try ; but this made it all the more imperative on him (Earl
Granville) very briefly and plainly to state that it appeared
to him that it would be impossible either for himself or the
house to consent to the resolutions to which the noble lord
had proposed. The fortU and itinguage of those resolutions
wore somewhat unusual ; but without applying to his noble
friend the chairman of committees to decide questions on
which it would perhaps be painful and embarrassing for
him to give an opinion, he (Earl Granville) must remark
that the substance of these resolutions was such as to make
it impossible for the house to agree to any one ,hem. They
were four in number, and the house was ask.;l' Vadopting
them to affirm a fact, and to express a hop, o 4 intention.
Their lordships were, however, first called upon to say that
they greatly desired the settlement of the question of parlia-
mentary reform. He (Earl Granville) did greatly desire it,
and he could not doubt that their lordships felt the same
desire. He could not, therefore, attribute the very thin at-
tendance of their lordships that evening to any want of inte-
rest in the matter, but rather to a feeling that this was not
the most practical way of dealing with the question. But it
would be perfectly impossible for them to declare " that this
house is willing to give its earnest consideration to the peti-
tions for universal suffrage and vote by ballot ;" because
adopting a formal resolution of that sort would be going so
far as to imply their intention of favourably considering
that request. They were next called upon to express a
hope that they would be able to cut off from the register of
voters all improper persons, which was one of the most diffi-
cult things it could possibly be proposed to them to attempt,
and the noble lord offered no scheme for effecting that object.
The last resolution, which contained the pith of the whole,
declared that the house might grant, in spirit, the prayer
of the petitioners for manhood suffrage and vote by ballot,
not only without detriment, but with advantage to the
country. Now he (Earl Granville) was extremely desirous
of reforming the present representation, and he had been
endeavouring during some weeks to elucidate whatever
evidence could be obtained to show that a considerable ex-
tension of the franchise might take place without detriment
to the common weal. But when they came to manhood
suffrage he was not prepared to give any countenance to
the adoption of any such proposition. He need not follow
the noble lord through all his philosophical, religious, his-
torical, and almost treasonable reasons for adopting univer-
sal suffrage ; indeed his memory would fail him if he at-
tempted to do so. The noble lord had indeed referred to
precedents, and this was always desirable in discussing con-
stitutional questions. But if secret voting was once re-
sorted to by the House of Commons in the reign of Queen
Anne, it wis clear that the system was then tried and con-
demned. The example of the Presbyterians of Northamp-
tonshire could hardly be applicable. With regard to the
suffrage, it was not correct to say that universal suffrage
existed in the reign of Henry VI., for the suffrage was
then confined to freeholders alone. One of the greatest ob-
jections to universal suffrage was that it was likely, as he
believed, in large countries where there was a powerful
and long-established administration, to tend, more than any
other form of representative government, not to the im-
provement of liberty, but to the destruction of liberty and
the establishment of despotism. (Hear.) And when the
noble lord urged the example of 1818 in France, he (Earl
Granville) must remark that the form of government
which had arisen in France was not such as we could wish
to see arising in England. Switzerland was, no doubt, a
country from which very sound lessons of liberty might be
learned, but it was very different from our own country in
its size and. in its position, and in 'all its circumstances.
The noble lord said that in Switzerland, as soon as the
father put a rifle into his son's hands to qualify him for the
defence of his country, he became possessed of the
franchise. Yet the noble lord himself proposed, in Eng-
land, to deprive every man in our army and navy of the
franchise, and so the absolute doctrine broke down by the
indefeasible right of every man to vote who had not dis-
graced himself by crime. For these and other reasons he
thought it was not desirable to adopt the resolutions moved
by the noble lord. (Hear, hear.)
The resolutions were then negatived without a division,
and their lordships adjourned.