The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-01 00:00:00

TULLOCH REPORT.

Cdr. ROEBUCK said—Mr. Speaker, I am perfectly
aware of the danger attending the course which I intend
new to pursue. At a time when peace and war hant
trembling in the balance, it is of the utmost importance
We should have a Government strong in itself, possessed
of the confidence of the country. That consideration
involves the difficulty before me. But, en the other hand,
if we were to let pass without comment the proceedings
to which I am about to refer, we should do an injury to
the army which is our greatest defence, we should he
liejust to that strong arm by which we resist npprepsion
'broad, and we;! should render inefficient one of
the most assured means of our safety. Therefore I rebut
entirely all responsibility accruing in consequence of the
Motion which lam about to make. If the Government
chooses to build a wall aninst which it chooses at the same
time to thrust its own heal, lam not responsible. I will at
°nee therefore proceed to state the subject of my motion.
Shortly after the army appeared bef re Sebastopol there
grew up from hour to hour, from day to day, whispers
of suffering to which that army was subject, which
whispers grew at length into a may say—roar
of disapprobation expressed by the whole press of this
country, At length when Parliament met, so alarmed
/gel the public mind upon the subject that the Secretary
at War (lir. S. Herbert) got up in his place and made a
defence tending to refute and answer all the rumours
Which had been received respecting the danger and s ,f.
lining of our army. There was something, rir, in the
Ma:unser of the right hon, gentleman, something so
;Jai:mons and frank in his whole demeanour that it won
Ea house and the country to believe in the statement

1~
+,
«•

rectinz further inquiry, but in putting upon Arial the
persons accused. It every person accused had been sent
before a court-in -rtiat to be tried, what would have been
the result ? Th- nereone aecueed would have been called
upon for their eefe no harm wool.l have been done to
any one, and every •...e would have had an opportunity,
if pose ble. of cleating hits elf. What has Government
done ? They have i-sued a commission t certain gene-
ral officers, to report up in the report of their own cam-
ivissionera. It has been taken as an objection to me
that I have used tke.e words, But let anybody read
the warrant placed on the table, and see if I am not jut-
tified. By this proceeding, the Government have done
irreparable injery to the army. I went to know whether,
with this proceeding staring him in the face, you can ex-
pect any man in future to undertake a task like that
intrusted to Sir J. M'Neil and Col. Tulloch. No wan
can more admire than I do the courage of these com-
missioners. They had told the truth. But in future, can
you depend upon men to do so ? They will bear in mind
the fate of Sir J .hn Nl`Neill and his coadjuter. They
will so shape their report as t ► meet the views of the
p rsons before whim it bas to be laid. A man in such a
position could say to himself, The, truth may be dis-
agreeable; to tell it would be to sul.ject myself to pain and
misery, anc: that is a risk I will not run.-" I ask the home:
is not that human nature? But heyond ti's you are Feb-
st itutieg an i •efficient for au efficient inquiry. If it was an
objection to the Setmetvol C di:it it eat 3 000
miles from the seat of Aar, is it not an objection tont.the
board of get.e.al officers would be equal•y distant fr
the ecene of affiirs ? Tne Government having sent com
missioners to the seat of war, having themselves ap-
pointed those cumtnietsionere, having received their re
port, the whole of which they have not yet predime.l t
the bouse—',hey sub-t•tuce Inr that the ver, rood- f .n-
-fluky with which they found so much fault when I pro-
posed the appointrn,nt of a cenirnittee of this boils..
There is this differeece, however. I pr .posed a mode cf
inquiry which the house granted, rind it placed upon
the committee men of different opieions, s,. t a tr...
was likely to be elicited, 'or that which one man 1
desire to conceal an. then would wi'h to be brow h t

1;01t. But Aliat 1- t. c of t' is c.) ittee ?
First up, r ,t are some “Id ent +ne . vPio ha' e s -.n
:teat •e, vic ; tor he I .4r(ates p• • hie re-
B t I ti,irik ver hall a c,),,,,,,r3ati0n —me ,lights
-440 ahnu, j0d.,0 ao.ich is appiicabl.• herr. T.•
verLi saKi:- arguments which app'if, t to cld jo•iges urn
. anpli,tl t
judg,s upon tie brni,ll oere. T,en there are es tai

in the corionis,ion —men who nev .r saw
a shot fire I. I want to know what is t!;eie capacity fir
judging a questiou like thi= '? There is ene other g
t etuan up in the list, the hon. and gallant ,iie user for
titinting,din (Ganeral Peel). I can under-tand the qua
of t!,...t and gallant ...ehtienvin. 01 every
,eca-qn, I fi,,d him nn the side e the prs ,ns accused.
[ don't Mean to 143 y that tile hot,. atl,l gallant M.lfil•
b--r. in giving his opini in, his acted in .iny way r..iscre-
!liable to iris frank and truthful diapos.tion ; but I say
that th fac!-, of his akieg suc,i a view is the great reason
for his app.iintrne:it. It tie bad formed other opinions,
if he tot I Tako,l another course he would not have beer.
there. I would ask tills house to consider with me the
c“nsecpierices of teis oroneedin;. First of all, it will
weaken tie moral support of our ar.ny. We send gallant
men abroad ; they go to fight our battles ; they have the
idea that the m4is of E•igland is over them wherever they
.say be ; they look to th:s house to protect them ; in all
their dangers and distresses their regards are turned to
hem What is the case of the army in the Crimea ? I can
und-rivand a gallant ma-1 stricken in the field, and full of
life and health made at one blow a corpse: I can under-
stand him dying with a full feeling in his heart that he
would be attended by the good wishes of his countrymen.
But the soldier in the Crimea suffere 1 a very different
fate ; he suffered cold, and hunger, and thirst, and died
with the feeling ths.t he was deserted by his country. Then
Ivay to this house, be careful how you possess your army
with the idea that you desert them in the time of thAr
used. Nothing that you have done for the army has
been felt so much as the anxiety which you showed iast
year for its safety and comfort. Now if you tura round
and take another course, you say that we were governed
by party feeling, that we had no care for the army, we
thought of ourselves. If you allow them to draw that
conclusion woe ..)e to your army, woe be to England ;
you will endanger the glory of England if you desert
the army which fought for her. (Bear.) The hon. mem-
ber concluded by moving the following resolution :

. " That the appointment of a commission of general officers
to reportlupon the report of Sir J. and Col. Tulloch,
is to substitute an inefficient for a very efficient mode of in-
quiry : and that the effect of such appointment will be to
hide the misccnduct of those by whom various departments
of our army have been subjected to the command of officers
who have been inculpatet by the Commissioners appointed to
inquire into their conduct."
Mr. HADFIELD seconded the motion.

Sir J. PAKINGTON found himself in tie difficult po-
sition of being unable to proceed with the motion of which
he had given notice, on account of the interposition of the
forms of Lie house. He was one who entertained a very
decided opinion as to the conduct of her Majesty's Go-
vernment with reference to the transactions to which the
hon. member (sir. Roebuck) had adverted. In conse-
quence of that opinion it had been his intention to ask the
opinion of the house on the subject. He felt that, for
various reasons, it would be better to postpone the mo-
tion. And within the last few days circumstances had
arisen which greatly strengthened his conviction. A corn-
reivion had been iesned- by her Majesty, and therefore it
might be seriously doubted whether the present was a
fitting time for introducing the subject to the house. Ent
the hon. and learned member for Sheffield had thought
proper at once to re so the question, and his announcement
to that erect rendered it Inver +Live that he (Sir .T. Pak-
ington) should at once place oa record the views thet
he entertained. The noble lord, however (Palmer-
ston), having refuse to the hon. and learned member the
opportunity of introducing the subject as a substantive mo-
tion, he (Sir J Pakington) was precluded from giving to
his views the form of an amendment, the mode which, as
he lied given notice, he had intended to have adopted. Ia
saying this ho did not intend to impute any blame to the
noble lord at the head of the Government, who hail never
been wanting in courtesy to hon. members on that (the
Opposition) side of the house, but merely to explain why his
views could not be brceight before the house in the form of
an amendment. He wisheel it to be understood that it was
only because he west precluded by the fortes of the house
that he abstained from moving an amendment on the pre.
sent occasion. He inust also add that, while precluded from
moving his own amendment, he was equally unable to sup-
port the motion of the hon. and learned member. It was
true that within the last few days the hon. and learned
member had considerably modified his proposal, but as the
hon. and learned member had omitted many points which
ought to be included, he (Sir J. rekingtee) felt still unable

gallantry and the highest honour. Ile thought,
therefore, that the general feeling would be that
their position before the commission ought not to b 3 pre-
judiced by a preliminary discussion. He wished next to
call the attention of the house to the language which had
been held by the Secretary for War with regard to assum-
ing the full resplusibility f recent appointments, and to
say that whatever fault be found with the conduct of the
Government he could not extend-Ids censure to that lan-
guage. The noble loru had avowed in the most ,listinct man-
ner that,tae Government halt itself responsible for these ap-
pointments. Ant iu doing so ho (Sir J. Paltington) thought
they had Nuopted the proper cow se. On that suoj,et, how-
ver, like the others. he should abstain from troubling the
house at greater length. IA laugh.) It was quite right that
the house should understand where the responsibility lay,
but further than this passing allusion he shoul postpotte
observation on the matter, conlihing himself to a repetition
of his inability to sup:oA the motion of the hon. and
learned member for Shetlitdd.

General PEEL said that the reluctance he always felt
when athlreesing the house was immeasurably inerea‘ed
when he felt obliged to ask its attention while he said a
few words respecting himself. ( dear.) Bat at the same
time he felt bound not to sit silent under such sneers ant
implic aloes as had been indulged iu by the hen. anti
lietmed member for Shedield. If the house would grant
him its indulgence for a few minutes he would show them
that if he heti not had the good fortune to see active ser-
vice it was not his fault, but is -misfortune. He selected
the army, not in time of peace, but in the height of the
Peuiesular war. At the age of 11 he went to Smethurst,.
eassed through ,dl his exeininatieee, anti three days bele' •
the betels of ‘Vaterleo, when he was 1.51 years of age, he
obtained his ensigucy in the 95th, now the Rifle Brigade.
lie next j Ailed a regiment which was equelly distin-
guished, the Grenadier Guards, left it with promotion and
returned to the lime After 12 years' service he was ap-
pointed to the celonelcy of a ieei:lent, and he thought he
heti just light to aesume that Le, at the time, was deemed
e ()niter to hold the appeiutteent, ter the Commander-in-
Chi f appointed him to his owu regiaient. Shorty after-
wares he bee tine the rep esemeative in Parliament of a
large constituency—that of Norwich, and as there was no
ereePect of war, he devoted himself entirely to the sew-
, ice of his constituents. (1-1
-ear ) When the present war
broke out, circulars were sent to all officers, asking
whether they were :tble and willing to serve, and he an-
: 'were t affirmatively in both particulars. (Cheers.) But
he did inure. He wrote to the Secretary for War, stating
that being blessed with more then twilit-I:try health and
strength, he was reedy to serve any where and in Any
capa-
city. Ag tin, after the battle of lekerwan, when it was
reported that many officers wished to return home on ac
count of their health, went to hie gallant friend, the
commander-in-chief, telling him ho was ashamed to hold
the rank lie did without service, awl that he was twist
anxious to go out to the w,:riu any capacity. He thought it
too bed that he who had always bean ready and anxious to
serve glee-Lid be thus taunted oy the hou. anti learned meta
leer. Then when the lion. and learned member accused
him of al ways voting with the accused, he might say that
the tliffe,rence between him and the lion. and learned nee ie
ber was that the lion. end learned member was always
ready to assume the guilt of the accused, while he (General
Peel) waited until he bet heard the evidence. (Lou
cheers.) He was always prepared to consider a man inno-
cent until he bad been proves guilty. Only two cases carne
before the committee is which there were diced, accusa-
tions agak est indi vidu de. One was against Ad tniral Boxer
for having; d&,,aitied, a transi»rt, sue dee (General Peel)
at once moved that it should be reperted to the Ad-
miralty. The other was that of an officer accused of de-
taining the knapsacks of his regiment, and in that case he
went to the Horse-gaards to demand a conrt martial. Hap-
pily the accusation was ascertained on the following day
to be unfounded ; but he thought these instances went
some way in controverting the hon. an i learned member's
assertion. His (General Peel's) anxiety when on the com-
mittee had been only to elicit the truth and to further the
ends of justice. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. PEEL could not concur in the hon. baronet's eulo-
glum on his own amendment, but he could concur with
him in opposing the motion of the hon. anti learned mem-
ber. With the instinctive feeling of English gentlemen the
house would refuse to er ter into a case which was about to
be submitted to a board of general officers. He was not
surprised, however, that the hon. and learned member for
Sheffield should bring forward this motion, for in doing so
he was only following the course he had taken in the pre-
-ceding year. The hon. and learned member minutely de-
teiled the'enotiou he ha. 11113 le in the previous year in order
to procure the Crimean committee, but ho altogether
omitted to mention that when the report was laid on the
table, he submitted a motion stigmatis:ng every member of
Government who had been in office when the disasters oc-
curred. The answer to that motion was, that had the meta.
hers of the Government known whet the hen. and learned
member was about to do, they would have demanded to be
themselves examined before the committee. Tho case to-
night was somewhat similar. A case was about to be nab
mitted to a board of general offieers, and before they heti
even commenced their labours the Lon. and learners mem-
ber so gut to take the opi 'ion of the house upon the me-
rits. With regard to the Government, the hon. and learned
member said that Government had appointed this commis-
sloe to screen their own misconduct, but the house would
not be isve that Government would be guilty of such solemn
mocker, as to issue a • formal &eminent, creating a board
merely with the object of screening their own misconduct,
The hon. and learned member now complimented the Cri-
mean connuissioeers, but at the time of their appointment
the hon. mud lea, nett member declared them unfit for their
work, and that their mission wonitl turn out a sham. Yet
all this was now forgotten, atet the commissioners were de-
cl tred to be the most zealous and impartial that could be se-
. b-cted. Then with respect to the present commission the hon.
and le trned member said that the government had appointed
a eri mem e'en mission, and now they ate) tinted auuther to
inquire into the coat) ct of th tt co el inission Now there was
not a sylleble of truth in that assumption. The commis-
sioners went to the Crimea, not to inquire into the conduct
of certain officer-, but to inquire generally into the conduct
of the commissariat. That was the first intruction, and,
three days after, further instructions were sent out that
they should inquire into the delay in the unshipping and
distribution of the goods Wh-re did the lion, and. learned
member find in their instructions any directions to inquire
into the conduct of the officers?
Mr. ROEBUCK—I bog pardon, (Order, order, It

ought to have sent out spicial instructions for dispensing
with tbat regulation, or, if they (lid not, an application
ought to have been made by the Quartermaster-General's
department to the acting Corn:nate ter-in-Chief for a reepen-
sation, and if neither of these courses were available, they
ought to have taken the authority upon themselves. Bat
in no part of the evideuce dirt it appear that Colonel
Gordon said that he was prevented from issuing the great
coats by the existence of the warrant coufiuiug the issue
to one great coat in three years to each man, or the diffi-
culty of obtaining a dispensation from that warrant.
There was another reason why the Government could not
adopt the report as conclusive, and why it eras no e eau
to appoint a tribunal to receive evidence. It was stated
by the commissioeers that the troupe remained seven or
eight weeks after their landing at Eupatolia an march-
ing upon the Altue before they hart their kraps acks re-
turned to them, and that they suffered severely in conse-
quence from the want of ordivaty necessaries; an I that
Col. Gordon, when he was asked " How do you ac punt
for that delay ?" answered that, shortly after the bateau of
the Alma, a circular was addressed to all the general oft-
cars commanding divisions inviting them to say whether
they wished the neon to have their knapsack-3 .reinreed to
them, and that they all declined to receive, them. They
:Laded that when they (the commissioners) returned to Bug-
land they inquired of the generals of division who lisp-
pelted to sit) 10 this country a* to the truth of this sta.e-
went, and that the reply of one was that 10 such offer ever
was made, of another tent he had no recollection of it, and
a third they had not been able to see. This ens A eta u-
m me which •lire:aly impugned the veracity of eel. Ger-
(ten, and without inquiry who could say wheel' party wee
right? What (Jul. Gordon now said was, th.nt .vhen he
gave that answer to the cornwissioaers he had in his hand
the letters of throe of the gene. ale coaen velure .t.,is ) is
distinctly dee: ining to receive the kir:ties:Luke, anti that
another ltd explaiued to him verbally why he did not
weal), to re.oi ye them, tine th it there was au entry in th
official ine.norendurn beok of the Quartermaster-Geueral's
department continuing this statement. Then as to the
case of General Airey —would it have been fair to have
condemned him upon this report, unsuppor to I by evidence?
(Hear.) The charge against the Q a:tat:master-Generale,
department was, that having plenty of stores ou hand they
neglected to issue them. Well, Gee. Airey was at the head
of that departrneut, anti was the responsible party. But
when the report was looked into, it did not appear that
Goo. Airy was ever called before the commissioners or exa-
unmet by them at all. It was true that the commissioners
prepared certain written questions, and that Gan. Airey
gave writte t answers to them ; hut with regard to the ilea-
issuing of the stores at the proper time, which was the
only point on which the Quartermaster-General's depart-
ment was condemned in the report, it did not
appear that any explanation was asked or given. Ha
thought these circumstances afforded ample grounds for
the appointment of tho board of general officers, to afford
an opportunity to the officers whose conduct was impugned
to give their own explanation of the facts. The right hoe.
baronet (Sir J. Pakington) was dissatisfied with the lee-
vernueent for not communicating the repoit to the Bore.,
Guards before laying it upou the table of the house; bat
that course would have occasioned delay, and in all proba-
bility there would have been a motion in the house, which
could scarcely have been resisted, for the immediate
production of the document. No inconvenience could
possibly have resulted from the report not having been
sent to the Horse Guards in the first instance ; it was re-
ceived by the War Department only a day or two after
the house met, was immediately laid upon the table,
and the Horse Guards were in possesion of it at as early a
period almoet as it would have been had it bean sent to
the Horse Guards in the first instance. As the honour-
:able aunt learned mearber'e resolution distinctly clam g
the Government with misconduct in having appoiu.sel
officers who were ineulpeted by the come:is:ic:le& report,
he felt blued to enter into some explanation upon that
pint. The boa. and learned member said that the officers
whose connect was most inculpated were Lord Lucen,
Lord Cardigan, General Airey, and Col. Gordon. Now
ha would titre the CASA of Lord C trdi;an first. The ap-
pointment which had been given to that officer was In-
spector-General of Cavalry. Bet when was he appointed ?
Shortly after the brilliant charge which L :rd Cardi;an
haul heailee at Bela klava, when al the country
was resounding with the praises of that noble lord's
gallantry—long before the commies:ea iv. s appointed, and
even before the Government by which that commis:eon had
been appointed was in existence. Bow that appointment
could be made a charge of misconduct on the part of the
Government he could not understand. Then with regard
to Lord Lacan, who had been appointed to the command of
a cavalry regiment. Considering that he was one of the
seven general officers who commanded a division in the
Crimea, and as every other general officer who had com-
manded a division had been appointed to the command of
a regiment, he could not conceive that there was anything
wrong in that appointment, especially as it also was made
before the commission had reported, and when it was not
known that any accusation would be made against him in
that document. Teen there was the case of Col. Gordon,
who hail been appointed Deputy Quartermaster-Geueial
at the Horse Guards. In Dec., 185, Lord Raglan recom-
mended Col. Gordon to be Queen's Aide-de-Camp and De-
puty Quartermaster-Geuerel of his army. That recom•
' menriation was not attended to by Lord Hardinge, and
' in May, 1855, Lord Raglan sagam recommended that he
should be made a Qatien's Aide-de-Camp, and promoted to
the rank of full colonel, he having been previously lieu-
tenant-colonel. But Colonel Gronion was not made a
Queen's Aide-de-Camp, and he succeeded to the rank of
colonel, nut by the influence of Lord Raglan's recommen-
eation, but by seniority. Then, with regard to his beiug
appoint() I Deputy Quartermaster-General. \V hen Lord
Raglan died, Colonel Gordon came home. He was about
to return to the Crimea, when at that moment the office
of Deputy Quartermaster-General at the Horse Guards be-
came vacant ; and it was considered that as Lord Raglan,
who had hart personal experience of his abilities, had recom-
mended him to fill a corresponding office in the Crimea—
n more fit person could not be appointed. (Hear, hear.) In
this case likewise, then, he contended, there had been no
misconduct on the part of the Government, the appoint-
ment having been made ere the commission had reported.
(Hear, hear.) The argument of the right hon. baronet (Sir
J. Pakington) was, that they were wrong in appointing
a
persons upon whose conduct an inquiry was in point of
fact pending ; but, if that principle were carried out, the
Government would have been debarred from availing
themselves of the services of any officer who had been en,
gaged in any one of the departments to which the inquiry
of the commissioners extended ; and Colonel Wellesley,
who, as officer in the Quartermaster-General's depattemut,
was to a certain extent responsible for the issue of stores,
could not have been appointed First Deputy Quarter-
master-General of the Turkish Contingent, and afterwards
to the command of the Land Transport Corps ; for both of
which appointments he had proved himself eminently
qualified. He next came to the case of General Airey.
General Airey was Quartermaster-General of the Army,
first under Lord Raglan, and afterwards under General
Simpson; and when the office of Quartermaster-General
became vacant by the retirement of General Freeth,
who had filled it for forty-two years, Lord Hardinge
naturally availed himself of the services of an officer
who had served two years is the Crimea in the very
department which was then vacant, and it must have been
a great advantage to Lord Panmure anti Lord Hardinge,
while the war was going on, to have at their diiposal the
experience of an officer who had been in such a position:
, The estimate of the character and serrioen tai Gems

Airey was not taken by Lord Her,lingo elene, but wee shared
by the Geverurnent, for what could -otherwise nave in-
duced the Government to send General Airey as a mem-
ber of the coaference which V/3.4 heti' in Park with reg and
to the future conduct of the war? They could only have
looked to the fact that this country should have its
weight in that conference when they selected offieere who
represented this country, and G-eneral Airey wee ono of
those who was sant over. There was everything to induce
Lard Hardinge to believe that General Airey was capable
of loin; a duty similar to that te which he had devote
hirnecif for two years ; and, considering that the report of
the Crimean comtnissionere had not then boon received
by the Government, no inure proper apoointetent could
then have boon male. He (Hr. Peel) did not know.
whether 11r. Fader had been 'wiled by the hon. and
learned gentlemen, bet the rigitt hon. gentleman opposite
(sir J. Pakington) hail spekon of some injustice having
been done to that gentleman Worm to he wets Tl' 4, aware
thet.he had bean recalled until he (Hr. Peel) had se et-itod
last night, and bast:Luse he had been sent a copy of the re-
port, which had only been laid on the table of the halite
a short time ago. He (Mr. Peel) did not use the word
" recall " with any meaning that it conveyed censure,
and he would state the circumstances under. which Mr.
Filder retired from the office of Corniniseery-General.
When Lord Pantnure came to the War office ho re-
ceived an impression that the performance of the duties
of the Comtnieeariet in the Crimea had not been satisfac-
tory, as it ought to have been. The report of the com-
mittee over which the- hon. and learned gentleman presided
strengthed that impression, and the first report of the
Crimean commission could not but have tended still fur-
ther to strengthen it. Having also heard that the health
of the Commiesary-General was failing, it was natural that
Lord Panmare should take the first opportunity to relieve
that officer. It was known there was every prospect that
the army would pass another winter in the Crimea, and
that its numbers would be lsrgely increased, anti that.
greater exertions would be required to provide for the
army in the winter of 1835-56 than were required in that
of 1854.55, and Lord Pannaure carne to the resolution to
intimate to the Commissary-General that another officer
would succeed him. A despatch was sent to Gen. Simp-
son stating the reasons for the recall of the Commissary-
General in the kindest and most considerate manner; but
while that despatch was on its way to the Crimea, Mr.
Filler applied for a medisal board to inquire into the state
of his heelth, and in consequence of its decision he had
actually quitted the Crimea bef,re the despatch arrived.
He came home ; but. if had remained in the Crimea, he
weuld have been made acquainted with the fact that an-
other officer would be appointed t succeed him. Then
with regard to nosh communicating To Mr. Filler the first
report of the commission. The fact wits, that when the
Government received it, the Commissary-General had al-
ready retired, and it was not thought advisable to com-
rnanica.te to him a report against him, when the whole
question hat been settled by that investigation. That first
report eves received in June last, but it was not cernplete,
and it was nmaccoinpanied by the evideice—it was simple
a bare report of the commission, hut.centaine.l no account
of their proceedings, for which there was no time, an it
was only intentle.l to inform the Government of the de-
fects of the Commissariat as early as possible. The Go-
vernment was therefore unwilling to do anything towards
Filler;' which Might be considered unkind ; but
when in December last the Commissary-General applied
to Lord Herdinge to recommend him for the Order of
the Bath, it became necessary to state why Lord Pan-
inure would be unable to recommend him for that dis-
tinction ; and that he was nut satisfied with the way
in which the duties of the Commissariat had been per-
formed, or that greater exertions might not have been used
if the department had gone out of the beaten track,
in order to obtain supplies. That communication was
not made to Mr. Filler till the miedle of Januery, soon
after the complete report of the Crimean commission had
reached the Government. The house would observe that
the statements in the report made it necessary that further
opportunity of explanation sheuld be afforded to the other
officers who were inculpated; anal it was thought advisable
to deal with Mr. Filder in that respect as it was proposed
to do with the others, and that a court should be appointed
to receive the explanations of all of them. That was all
that he (Mr. Peel) thought it necessary to state on that
occasion. 'He could only say that when the hon and learned
gentleman imputed misconduct to the Government for
seine of the appointments which they had made, he
was sure . that at least they might claim credit for
others. The departments generally were now ad-
mitten' to be filled by the fittest men. The present Adju-
tan -General in the Crimea was an officer whose attention
to the drilling of the troops :mud training them to the use
of the new weapons which had been established, had con-
tributed to form an infantry which wont' be found in ac-
tionito have reecheil an effectiveness which had never been
reached before. The efficerwho filled the office of Quarter-
master-Geeeral shown great capability, and the condi-
tion of the supplies of the army testified to his ability to
do.his duty. With regard to the medical department, at
its head was the very officer:flawed by the hon. and learned
gentleman, Dr. Hall.
Mr. ROEI3UCti—I did not mention his name.
Mr. F. PEEL—His Impression was the hon, and learned
gentleman di I n sine Dr. dell.
Mr. ROEBUCK—I did not.
Mr. F. PEEL—WeII, 'he officer who presided over that
department in I.4rA: was the same who presided over it now.
(fionicalchsers from Mr. Roebuck and Mr. Layard.) That
cheer, he supposed, meant that th:at officer ought not now
to be :at the nea-I of the department, but let the returns of
the state of the army speak fur the fact. There were now
7 deaths in 7 days out of moo.) men, and look at that
in oemparieon with last year, when, with a force on•
third or one half in number, the number of deaths were
105 a week. Take any other department of the arias
in the Crimea, and it would be found that men were ap
pointed to fill them who were the fittest for their posts.
With these remarks he would leave the questiou in tht
tinsels of the house, and he had no Bought from what the
ri ;lit hon. gentleman opposite (Sir J Pakingt in) had said
that the holm would shrink eats taking any course which
prevent the officers impliiratett from making their
uexplanations-to the board of general officers who had beet,-
appointed, and that it would be admitted that some credit
was due to the G iverninent, who haul done their utmost
to b• ing,together an army se strung in numbers, so itnbue d
with martial spirit, and so eager to measure their strength
with the enemy, that although every one must desire this
peace would be the result of the conference now sitting.
awl that every practicable means should be pursued to ob-
tain it, yet if _war was the only alteruative that remained,
anti it was adopts by this country, there could be ne
doubt as to its results
Mr BEN CINCIi characterised the motion of Mr. Roe-
buck es ill-timed and inopportune, and taunted him with
having bean, the only inetur,er who, during this session,
haul endeavoured to disturb the course which the house had
been inclined t.a adopt at this juncture. The course taken
by the hon. gentleman, atri the opinion he had expresstio
with reared to the objects for which England had en-
tered on the present wear, were such as not to justify hie,
(Mr. Bentinck) in haviug any confidence in the tuutiei.
which he haul now brought forward.
Mr. LAY ARD hoped to be allowed te address a few
words to the house in com,equence of a motion in cotinecti- n
with this subject which ho bad put on the paper. Without
any disparagement to the motion of his hon. and learned
friend, ho must say that ho thought his (Hr. Layard'e) own
motion pi•eferanle to the hoe. and learned gentleman's. It
was a question whether this commission ought to be the
subject of discussion, and he would limit himself to that
part of the subject. The right hon. gentleman opposite
(Sir J. Paeington) said that the house ought not to enter
into this question, and he agreed with him so far as the
conduct of the officers which was impugned in the report
was concerned. After whet had been done by the Govern-
ment, ho thought it unadvis able to take such a course, and
ha had listenel with surprise to the unwise and indiscreet
speech of the Under-Secretary for war. Ho would not go
over the whole subject of the state of the army in the Cli-
mes, which was known to every man, but lie wonld remind
the house that, when the motion of the hen. and learned
gentleman last year was carried, and was followed by the
tall of the Government, the noble lord now the First Mi-
nister made a very remarkable speech, amid endeavoured to
take the inquiry out of the baud; of the house, using the
words of a king of former times, and stating that he would
be their leader, and see that inquiry was made into the al-
leged celpelelity and the guilty punished. Notwitbstand
ing that spu-,ech the committee was appeinted, and the in-
quiry went on. Besides this, the noble lord chose two most
unexceptionable gentlemea to make an inquiry on the
spot, whieh the committee coal I not tie definitively. Ho
heel sent. Sir J. al'Neill and Col. Tulloch te the spat to
tuquire into the condition of the army and to report to the
hoeee and the country. The appointments were unexcep-
tionable. Sir J. M'Neill began life as a surgeon is the
army, and was therefore highly qualified in that respect
for the tae he undertook ; besides which he had repro,
stated the country with ability in Persia, and knew settle-
thing of the resources of the East ; and latterly he had held
a seini-officia: sepointment in Scott and, and was habituated
to dealing with evidence. Col. Tulloch also was an officer
of high character anti experience. The hon. gentleman
(Mr. Peel) had said that he (Mr. Layard) had criticised
those appointments, because he had said that their report
would be a sham. He was right, however, in saying that
it world be a sham, that is, that the Government never
would adopt it. The hon. gentleman had himself staid
that the Government had overthrown the report, for he
complained that General Airey had not been heard before
the commissioners, because Sir John M'Neill had, on ac-
count of ill health, left the Crimea before he had au op-
portunity of doing so. He (Mr. Layard) had had some
conversation with Sir J. M'Neill at the time that he was
appointed, and that gentleman told him that his health was
very delicate, and that he undertook the task with reluc-
tance, but that it had been pretend on him by the Govern-
ment, and he felt it to be his duty to consent to act. Had
not the hon. gentleman (Mr. Peel) justified his (Mr. Lay-
wars) prognostications with regard to the way is which the
Government would deal with the report ? He would not
go into the report on that occasion, but it was a fact that
the gentlemen appointed went to the Crimea to report on
the state of things; they were to act like a judge in sum-
ming ap a ease ; they were to state all the facts, and give
ne opinion
of their own; they were to produce the evi-
dence given before them, and leave it to the house and the
country to pass a judgment upon it ; mad surely they were
as able to do that as any board of general officers. Tne
Government had adopted the report and communicated it
to the house; they had accepted it and endorsed it with
their sanction, and he had heard the hon. gentleman's mode
of dealing with it with surprise. There were two points on
which he would remark. The hon, gentleman had charged
Sir J. M'Neill and Col. Telleuh with want of veracity, and
he referred to a part of Col. Gordon's evidence, and stated
that Sir J. and Col. Tulloch had said that Colonel
Gordon stated that the men's knapsacks had not been given
to them because the generals of uivision had refused to re-
fund them, whereas, according to Sit-J. M'Neill, three
generals had denied that to hire. In this instance the re-
port only stated these things as facts, and it did not say
which was in the right. The hon. gentleman said that Col.
Gordon's letters showed that he was right, but he ought
not to have charged Sir J. M'Neill and Col. Tulloch with
want of veracity.
Mr. PEEL had never impugned the veracity of the com-
missieners, but all he said was that Col. Gordon had made
an assertion on one side, , and the commissioners on the
other, and the Government would not undertake to say
which was right.
Mr. LAYARD—The next point was with regard to the.
greatcoats. The hon. gentleman said that Sir J. M Neill
and Colonel Tulloch had stated that they were not served
out because Col. Gordon said that the issue of great coats
was restricted by the Queen's warrant to one in
.three
years, and that there was no such words in Col. Goidon's
evidence. The usual Horse Guards' coarse was pursued
here—the weak men were overthrown and the strong
triumphed. The hon. geatleman'eexplanation with regard
to Mr. Filder was as lame as it possibly could . be. Tho
hon. gentleman said that Mr. Filder was not actually re-
called ; but a recall it was in the strict sense of the word,
and no glossing of the bon. gentleman would make the
matter different. When public opinion was loudly ex-
pressed on this subject the noble lord at the head of the
Government, with his venal tactics, appointed a corainirt•

" What the Ministers wanted was, that, as a public tri-
eunal, they should detersniue whether the couutry ought
to acquit his Majesty's advisers. They pervert, therefore,
the whole nature of the tribunal, and have produced out
of it such a strange, auomalous, and incousietent proodeo-
ing, as was never known in the laws of this or of any other
couutry, and which cannot he waste conclesive to any pu- -
oose Wet shell be at once rational and honest. his a trial
slid no trial. It can neither condemn so as to inflict punish-
mint on the guilty, nor acquit so as to protect tee inn°.
este, from prosecation. • * Tee Ministers
vented to hush up the business so as to preveut that full
iisclosare which a trial would bring out, -awl which might
iuvolve statements net se convenient to theMselvea. Fur
his purpose either no trial at all, or an inquiry in the re-
eater mode, with shut doors, would have been most COU-
vonient. But that the irepetience of the publics would not
eadily acqui,ce in. To that the terrors of the newspapers
.were opposed. They therefore conceived met brought forth
eat monstrous production, unknown to our laws and our
asege.s, an open court of inquiry, of which the-only etlect
rats been to throw dust in the eyes of the people by a *hew
trial without the reality."
Tlmt wee prophetic of this very case. He would take next
the opinion of Lord H. Petty, the present Marquis of
eansdowne, who was opposed to the appointment of that
,:onewission. Lord IL Petty.said :
" I am sure that in this house it will not be thought that
any form of inquiry that has passed already, or anything
hat has bereft the name of iaquity, has been of a natute
o preclude the expediency and necessity of tLis house
etking upthe inquiry itself, because, with whatever respect
may view the iu lividual and military characters of the
persons who composed the board of iuquiry, assembled by
eis Mejesty'e command, I must sey that, constituted as
that board was, and directed as its functions were,
that board was a tribunal more Lcornpetent to
ve satisfaction to the coup tty, more irreeoncileable with
ell the known and received principtesoflew and equity in this
country, than any which has ever existed. * * * I
hold in my hand the opinion thlivetest by Lord Wood-
ossuselee out the subject of courts of inquiry. Ifs asserts
that altheegh there is in the king a power inherent to
convene such boar is as courts of advice, yet still that their
slecisions have no binding effects on the party accused ; a el
though it hee happened that persons suspected have ueen
examined by them, the call was not founded in justice, nor
cen persons be compelled to obey them. In this opinion
Mr. Macarthur and Mr. Adey, two gentlemen who hate
also written on the subject, concur. * * There is, he-
sbies, in our history a wemoreble instance, in which the
reference to such a court was preguant with evils ; yet,
be believed that this very instance, which has
proved in its operation so mischierous and in its conse-
li
quences 63 pregnant with evil, was the very idlntical pre-
zedent on which the servants of the Crown recommended
to their Sovereign' the formation of the late court of in-
quiry. I allude to the case ef Sir J. Mord:mut, whose
conduct was first submitted to the uoard'ot inquiry which
next Beet him to a court-martial, when ho was acquitted
upon the ground that the only evidence against him arose
from his own answers tending to criminate himself. Such
au example is of itself sufficient to satisfy the house of the
inconveniences and disadvantages arising from that parti-
cular mode of inquiry. I therefore do think myself justi-
fied its assorting that a court of inquiry, held as this has
been, opening its door to the public, calling npun the very
liarldes to give their testimony, and drawing from them in-
formation by-which they were to he subjected to criminal
prosecution, was a tribunal calculated rather to defeat than
to nromete the ends of justice or to give satisfaction to the
public. Even by the constitution of the court itself it was
impossible for it to inquire into any demerits beyond those
of the officers."
-

Upon the same occasion, Sir A. Wellesley, afterwards the
great Duke of Wellington, said—
" He perfectly agreed with the noble lord (Lord H. Petty)
in the wish that this court of inquiry might be the last of the
kind which should assemble.- It was note court before which
any officer would (lusiro to be! tried. (Hear, hear ) A
general impression had gone abroad that this court had
been instituted by his noble friend (Lord Castlereagh) out
of friendship to him. It was rather hard upan him to be
subjected to such a reflection ; as, if he had been tied in
any other manner, ho must have been acquitted. As far
as he was concerned, ho must say, without meaning to
blame any of the ineinlm.s, that this court had been a
source of injustice, and he therefore hoped it would be the
last court of the kind to which the investigation of the
conduct of officers should be submitted."
Thtse were the opinions of three of the highest authorities
upon such a question, and yet the Gover.iment professed
now to rest their determination to ppoiut the court upon
the course which had been pursued on former occasions.
and upon the commission of inquiry ii.to the Conv,etion
of Cintra (dear.) Now, it really. did appear to hitn that,
upon this occasion, the Horse Guards had brought these
censures entirely upon themselves. They had virtually bid
defiance to the country. _Notwithstanding the complaints
and the indignation of the country they had said, "
you way prove what you can against the otficersconcerned,
you may prove them to be utterly incapable, but we will
exercise the authority we have, and appoint r promote
them in spite of you." It had been said ;hat Sir Itichant
Air ey was appoiutedin September ;
hut as he (51r.Layarci)
believed, lie ~as appointed on the 26th December, which
made a very great difference. It was true that Lord Pau-
mure had stated be never saw the printed report until it
was submitted to the house but had Lord Pannaure never
seen the written report? If so, he watt almost the only
min in any position in the country who did not see it ; for
m
know it was seen b; many before the end
he (Hr. Layanil
of the mouth of September.
mr.PEEL observed that the report which had reference
to Lords Lu not:;en prisettte.. eau and Cardigan had b at
that time.

Mr. LAYARD replied that the hon. gentleman had goae
out of his way to defend LordsLucan and Cardigan, whose
case had not even been alluded to by the preceding speak-
ers. The fact was that the 'non. gentleman had prepared
a speech in answer to the speech which he supposed would
be made by himself (Mr. Layard) in bringing forward the
motion of which he had given notice, and which, for rea-
sons of hie own, he had postponed to a more favourable
opportunity. The hon. gentleman would be able, no
doubt, to defend Lord Lncan and Lord Cardigan when
they were attacked. The hon. gentleman had al=o gone
out of his way to deal with the case of Dr. Hall. Now, if
there was any ore ease more gross than another, it was
the case of Dr. Hall. The Sebastopol Committee had re-
Nrted against him ; the evidence of Lord Harding° and
the evidence of Dr. kndrew Smith was against him ; and
the only man whom Sir John 51`Neil and Col. Tulloch
directly censured, and almost charged with a want of ♦era-
city, was Dr. Hall ; and in spite of that, only three weeks
ago, on the Gth Feb., Dr. Hall was gazetted to a K.C..13.
Now there could not be the excuse, in that ease,-that the
Government had not seen the reports against Dr. Hall be-
fore they conferred this distinction upon him. This was
an example of the manner in which the home and the

" Is your Royal Highness aware at all of what was the
reason of this great delay in the restoration of the knapsaelts.
after tLey hail been taken away I—The reason was simply'
this, that, instead of each Alip, after coming round to Bile-
klava,, entering the harbour and discharging its cargo ci,!
knapsacks, ant care being taken that the resin:mats were
informed at the time that such would be the case, "amortof
circular was sent ruuud that a ship was outside or inside the
harbour, and the chance was taken of getting the knapsacks
out. It occurred once or twice, on sending down for them,
that theship had sailed in the meantime to Constantinople or
Marseilles upon another service, and the knapsacks were
gone. Is the fact within your Royal Highness'. knowledge,
that ships laden with those knapsacks went two or three
times backwards and forwards acrnakthe Black Sea with-
env latiding ?—I think that that is true. Does not that
imply great neglect in some -gusrters?—l think it a very
bat arra egemeet."
Thus, the Royal duke, who was ready to receive the
knapsack, did ntt get them any. more than the four foolish
old generals who refused them. Then, again, what does
his Hoye! Highness say futtber—
" Would it tn.t have been possible, after the flank search
was determined ilium, to have all the knapsacks collected
together out of the different ships into one, and to hire
sent them round to Balskl..va ? —I have no doubt ths4lavme
err ingemeni of the sort might have been made at the titne,,
(Rear.) Of course at sea it is nut, perhaps, a very easy mat-
tic to shift knapsaelsa from one ship to another. I eppre-
nand the simplest course would ha.ve been to have landed
the knapsacks of each regiment at Balaklava, and then to
have made the sliips available at once for any other ditty."
If the hon. gentle min iu his study of blue-books--a study
t which I believe lie is much addieted—the.ir, hear, and
laughter)—would only refer to General Bentinck's evi-
dence he would find that gallant otliCer fully corroboratve
his Roynl Highness, and that he could not get the knap-
sacks, notwithstanding the wonderful alacrity of Col. Gor-
don. Then what does Col. Wilson, of the Guards, tell us?
He was asked—

" You at ted that the men had no change before you
came away ; had they not got their knapsacks?—Before I
came away I do not think ZO of our English soldiers had
their knapsacks except the two companies of the regiment'
which had been place,' on board the Bellerophon, under
Lord Frederick Paulet, and Lord Frederick brought those
mon on shore with their knapsacks, and those, 1 believe,
were the only men that had their knapsacks out of the
whole brigade."
And, again,—
" Do you know what steps were taken on the part of the
alms to obtain their baggage while encamped before •So-
bastopol?—l know that time officers repeatedly sent down
their servants to Balaklava to endeavour to discover the
ships in which they had sailesl to the Crimes kr the pur-
pose of getting their bsigglge. I did so myself, and em ems
occasion the Terming, the ship in which I before said I
sailed to the Ciiinea, iii t arri.e, auA I sent my servant
down, and they told him that they had been ordered at
Constantinople to disgoilm all the, blg4age, and to put it
into store there, so that I got unthinr."

That was the excelleat ate angerreut which Cul. Gordon
made for the Guards. Ido net wish to trouble tee house
with a variety of evidence ripen this subject, but perhaps
nee. members are not aware why it is that.the subject of
the knapsack is dwelt upon so muds. I' must remind
them that it was state t by the medical officers that in cote-
sequence of the troops not having a change of clothes their
sufferings were aggravated, arid I know the sick and wound-
ed went down to Sexual i with their shirts sticking to their
hacks, in the most deplotable couditioe. Ito provimion at all
being made for them at Belekls.ve. (Hear.) Se much for
the willingness of the Duke of Cambridge to receive the
knapsacks. Now, Six, as awn as I heard of this, I obtained
a document from General Pennefather, who commanded
ono of the brigades under my orders, and from Colonel
Armstrong (Gederal Adams, who commanded the other
brigade, having unfortunately been killed), in which those
officers said they sent down to Baleklava wheueser they
heard of a shipcoming into harbour with baggage, but they
invariably foiled the knapsacks lied been sent on to Con-
•tautinople or some other place. The bon. gentleman the
Under-Secretary quotes Col. Gordon, without knowing
whether what Col. Gordon says is sound or not, and
complain that he has not candidly avowed he was not
aware of the evil consequences which have resulted from
the knapsacks having been withheld and sent about from
place to place except to that place where they were re-
quire i. I admit that perhaps sonic confusion v: as inevi-
table, but I do not think that such efforts were meths or
arrangements, concluded an prudence would haeo dictateel.
I complain, also, of the readiness which I discever from
the evi :once Col. Gordon displ ys to shift the blame which
might tie attrioute : to hint upon the shoulders of other
persons. The five Generals of Division were all absent,
one of them unhappily having perished, and thee Col.
Gorden says, %NlA:isle except his Royal Highness, those
generals caused all the difficulty by their refusals to ro-
cpt the knapsacks. The bun. gentleman the Under-Secre-
tary of War, not appreciating the t itezreet observations of
the right hole baronet (Sir J. Pakington), goes int , the
why le question, and chadenees the opinion of Parliament
upon the whole question. (Hear.) At one time he says
a commission is about to be appointed, a trial is peeding,
and therefore it would be unfair to snake any remarks, but
the moment after he commences an attack upon everybody.
(Hear.) The hoc gentleman says this motion is unfair,
because the commissioners are somewhat assailed by thin
proceeding, but immediately afterwards he does not heed-
tete to commence an attack upon the commissioners.
Surely threes commissioners are equally entitled to fair play
as the officers who are said to he reflected upon by their
report. (Heat, hear.) And, sir, after all, those commis-
sioners were officers appointed and selected by the War
Department, and now down comes the War Department
and complains of them. (Hear, hear.) It seers to be in-
tended to lay down a rule that everything may be said
about any one except as to those officers who have a-con-
nexion with the Court. I cannot help saying that I be-
lieve the public imagine different justice is administered
by the Government to noble lords antlhon.
and genatl,emfreinenfa-
voured at Court than that awarded to humble
less individuals. (Hear, hear.) I confess, toe, I did not
like the announcement of the noble viscouut (Palmerston)
that this Board or Commission is to close its doors coca-
sio' aly whenever its members may decide to do so. Lte
us understand whether evidence is to be heard while these
doors are closed. (Hear, hear.) I have also heard it said,
and am not sure that there is nu foundation for the 'state-
went, that one of the modes by which these gentlemen
who consider themselves inculpated intend to escape from
censure is to cant all the blame upon the late Lord Raglan.
Sir, Lord Raglan and the eldjutent-Geuerei can no longer.
defend thcrwelves, end I would advice the friends of the
late Lord Raglan, of whom there mutt he many in this
house, to be upou their guard against ray attempt on the
part of cerSain individuals to exonerate themselves at the
expense of the late Cornmabder-in-Chief. (Hear, hear.)
Why ii there to be any secrecy at all' Tell us that. A
distinction has bees drawn between the Cciermission or
Board and that which eat after the Coneentica of Cintra.
Upon that occasion there was merle reeiun fur caution and
even for secrecy— there wore great strategical poijts to be
l &Am*. I Myself bare beau placid in a Wee position in