The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-27 00:00:00

circumstances? It must either succumb, or proceed to a
mode of compulsion which is different from that of diplo-
macy. Did the right hon. gentleman refer to that latter

course ?
Mr. HORSMAN said he did not.
Mr. BRIGHT—No; because he has told the house that
he does not mean to make war upon France. But the right
hon. gentleman is determined to make war upon those who
sit on the Treasury benches; and I have not the least ob-
jection to his doing so, though, if the right honourable gen-
tleman will permit me, I will give him a piece of advice.
When he wants to make war upen the Treasury bench, he
should not begin his assault when they are in the right.
(Laughter.) I have been opposed to governments, and I
hope I have on such occasions done something to render
their position unpleasant —(hear, hear, and laughter)
—but I have always acted upon this plan. Every Govern-
ment—even that of Lord Derby—sometimes does things
that are right—(laughter)—and then I have always been
happy to give them my support. But on the other hand,
even such governments as that of the noble viscount ara

apt to make great mistakes, and my course has been to attack
them upon those mistakes. (Cheers, and laughter.) But
the right hon. gentleman not only makes war upon the go-
vernment, but upon all the party with whom for the last
20 years it is supposed that he has been acting. The right
hon. gentleman makes war upon all the past of his own
life ; and for a gentleman of his power of debate, of com-
prehending questions, and of being usefulboth to the House
of Commons and to his country, it is a lamentable thing to
ice hint committing, as I think, so great a mistake. (Cheers.)
With regard to the main object at issue, I am opposed to
the house placing itself in the humiliating position which
it has so often of been invited to occupy—that of bark-
ing when it does not intend to bite, and of making itself,
not the guardian of the powers of Europe, for that would
be foolish and impossible enough—but making itself the
common scold of all Europe. (Cheers and laughter.)
Nothing could be more humiliating, nothing more hopeless
than such a position. lam not sure that some of our de-
bates, pernicious as they have been in other respects, have
not rather affected the judgment of the noble lord at the
head of foreign affairs. Ido not perhaps quite understand
the observations with which the noble lord closed his
speech—(oh, oh)—but the noble lord opposite (Lord John
Manners), always glad to ally himself with that which ci-
vilisation is day by day departing from, namely, privilege
and despotism—(renewed cries o" oh, oh")—rose imme-
diately to compliment the noble lord the Secretary for Fo-
reign Affairs, and to say, what I have heard him say be-
fore, viz., how grateful he felt to the noble lord for the opi-
nions he had expressed, and for the course which the Go-
verntoent were about to take. The house are aware that I
have more than once expressed an opinion that a close per-
sonal alliance between the Sovereign of this and the Sove-
reigns of other countries is not, in my opinion, advanta-
geous to England, nor indeed to Europe. I think the noble
lord means to take that course which, in the impartial opi-
nion of every one, must be admitted to be wise and good—
he intends, namely, that the policy of England shall in fu-
ture not be such as to estrange England from any of the
Governments of Europe—that it shall not be such to
France on the one side, or to Austria on the other, as shall
make one of those powers the embittered enemy of Eng-
land ; but such as will enable England to take an impartial
position among the Governments of Europe, giving her
opinion, as she is only bound to give it, when the question
does not immediately affect her own interest—only when
she is asked for it. If this were the proper occasion I should
take the noble lord to task for the course which has been
taken with regard to Naples. There is nothing which I
believe is more firmly and more unchangeably established
than that the past policy of England with regard to various
matters connected with the Governments of continental
Europe has been a policy not tending to her honour, not
good for her people, disastrous to her finances, needlessly
meddling, and of no advantage to her whatever. (Opposi-
tion cheers.) lam not asking for a policy of entire and
absolute isolation; but I believe that a policy of isolation
would be better than a policy of incessant meddling.
(Cheers.) I hope the noble lord will take this course—that
he will move with France, when he has to move with her,
clearly, frankly, honourably, and in a manner that cannot
be mistaken. I know the noble lord will never truckle to
any power in Europe, but I hops he will so conduct the
policy of this country that all the nations of Europe may
say that which I believe they have heretofore not said, that
England is a power that regards its own great interests,
namely—that it interferes not in Europe where interference
can be avoided, and that when it does interfere, it inter-
feres, not for the sake of degrading one power or of exalting
another, but in favour of those great principles of justice
and moderation which it is necessary to observe if the peace
of Europe is to be preserved. (Cheers.)
Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON said he could not think it
possible that the statements which had been made by the
hon. gentleman were in accordance with those sentiments
entertained by the English people. If the question of the
annexation of Savoy had been passed over sub silentio they
would be liable to the imputation of giving encouragement
to still further encroachments in that course of policy.
England would be wasting in its duties if it did not com-
plain in the strongest terms of the annexation of Savoy.
The hon. gentleman. (Mr. Bright) had, however, said that it
was a matter of very little importance. Did that hon. mem-
ber wish then to see the glorious republic of Switzerland
shackled on one of its frontiers by a great military Power
like that of France ? He (Lord (1. Hamilton) denied that ;
the general sentiments of the people at all accorded with
those which had been expressed by that hon. member. The
subject of complaint was, that the noble lord the Secretary
of State for Foreign Affairs had not raised his voice when he
had first been made aware of the intentions of the French
Government. If they were silent on such a subject they
would be sanctioning a most odious policy, and would be
worthy of strong condemnation. He was bound to say that
the policy puisued by the noble lord at the head of the Go-
vernment, since 1830, when he was called to the Foreign
Office, had been such as to irritate and alienate the old
Allies of England ; and he was rejoiced to hear, by the
speech of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell), that it was found
necessary to draw closer the intimacy with foreign Powers,
a arepeh whip}, 'had been loudly cheered by a crowded house.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. KINGLAKE said he was very sure he would not
have addressed them but for the language which had been
used by the hon. member for Birmingham as to the conduct
which he (Mr. Kinglake) had thought proper to pursue
with reference to these transactions. The speech of that
hon. member had been truly characteristic of the man, be-
cause he had disclosed in every sentence the assumed in-
fallibility of his own opieions, and his ignorance of the views
which were entertained by other men. (Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. Kinglake) denied that he had acted in these matters
in the character of a friend of the King of Sardinia, which
the hon. member might have known if he had paid any
attention to what he had said when he came down to the
house and disclosed to hon. members the family compact
which had been entered into between Franco and Sardinia.
The hon. member had alleged that those who had spoken
had not shown him how England had any interest in this
matter; but that only showed that he had paid no atten-
tion to the discussions on the subject, for it had been
proved that military considerations made it of great im-
portance that England should endeavour to prevent the an-
nexation of Savoy. (Hear, hear.) He wondered at the
audacity of the hon. gentleman coming forward to give a
military opinion, and speaking with his usual confidence
that Savoy and Nice were only worthless provinces. (Hear,
hear, from the Opposition.) Hon. members in speaking of
these provinces were influenced principally by military con-
siderations, and of course the hon. member must mean that
they were worthless provinces in a military sense—
Mr. BRIGHT.—I said politically.
Mr. KINGLAKE said it must depend on the degree of
strength which these province gave to a nation, and there-
fore it was not right in the hon. member for Birmingham
to speak of them as being worthless in a pelitical sense. The
hon. member had said that there was great danger of the
house degeratiug into the position of being the common
stole of Europe, but the language and the demeanour of the
hon. member was such as would prevent England being the
scold of Europe. (Opposition cheers.) He (Mr. Kinglake)
was glad to say how much he had been gratified with the
speech of the noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs, and he congratulated himself in being, to some ex-
tent, the cause of that speech by the notice of motion which
he had given. He was also glad to say that, happily, the
views which he entertained upon so important a subject
were now entertained by the Government. (Hear.)
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said he would venture to recall
the attention of the house to the subject which was im-
mediately before them when this discussion arose, he meant
the income tax. lie had already said he thought it very
doubtful whether the house would not object to pay a lid.
income tax for the sake of a mere financial experiment.
But he thought it was now his duty to make some remark
upon the inequalities which deformed this tax. Tha
house was aware that it was of very unequal pressure,
taken with reference to the various schedules. For in-
stance, with respect to all the property in Schedule A,
which included all the land and house property of the
country, people paid the tax upon their gross rental. This
was clearly a great injustice to the owners of real property
in this country. He proposed, therefore, that some reduc-
tion, by way of per centage, should be made upon this gross
rental, and that the income tax should be calculated upon
the reduced amount. He begged also to ask the right hon.
gentleman whether he had any objection to give to owners
of landed property a right of appeal to the commissioners.
Sir J. PAKINGTON said that before the right hon. gen-
tleman rose to answer the question, there was one or two
points on which he thought it desirable that he should give
the house some further information than it had yet received.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer having thought fit to im-
pose a 10d. income tax, with a remarkable inconsistency, in
the very year in which he had promised it should cease al-
together, had omitted to state to the house what would be
the estimated proceeds of the tax. He had told the house
what they were to pay, not what he was to receive. The
right hon. gentleman, in his statement on the budget, had
estimated the produce of half-a-year's income tax at sd. at
£2,400,000 ; this would give £960,000 for each penny of tax.
But a few sentences later in his speech, he had said that the
actual produce of the tax in 1858-59 at sd. was X 6,140,000.
That would make each penny to produce £1,258,000. He
gave a third and different statement when estimating what
would be the receipt front the three quarters of the tax
which he proposed to collect in the ensuing financial year ;
this he estimated at £8,172,000, and the fourth quarter at
£2,250,000; givingan a gv-egate of -C10,722,000, or i. 1,012,200
for each penny. If the second calculation was correct, the
9d. tax proposed on a former evening would actually produce
a larger revenue than what the Chancellor of the Exchequer
now estimated front a 10(1 tax. Another point was the
mode in which he proposed to collect the three quarters
within the year. There would be considerable practical dif-
ficulty in this; and he should be glad to hear some explana-
tion. He also hoped that some alteration would be made
in the remuneration allowed to the collectors. They were
extremely well paid, and as the tax was to be doubled, their
ought to be some reduction in, their poundage.
Mr. DE EDE S expressed his disappointment at thefinan
cial statement.
Mr. L. BLAKE expressed his conviction that the income
tax pressed unjustly on the commercial classes, as compared
with farmers, who were exempt up to £2OO a-year.
Mr. LONGFIELD asked whether any augmented tax
was to be levied in Ireland on a new assessment, as Pro-
mised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He found that