The Sun.
London, England, 1860-07-10 00:00:00

ITALIAN AFFAIRS.

The Marquis of NORM ANBY was anxious to correct the
erroneous impression which might have been created a few
evenings since by the somewhat disparaging tone in which
his noble and learned friend (Lord Brougham) had spoken
of certain correspondents from whom he had received in-
formation with respect to the acts of the Provisional Go-
vernment at Florence. Upon the information derived from
those gentlemen he placed as full reliance as that which he
would repose in statements coming from any member of
that house, even from the noble and learned lord himself.
They stated that the Provisional Government, which had
been much supported, and he might say nursed into exist-
ence, by the action of the noble lord the Secretary for
Foreign Affairs, had violently gagged the press, and would
not allow a syllable to be circulated in opposition to its
views. But now the Provisional Government was at, an
end, and as an immediate consequence a newspaper had
been published by some of the most eminent men of liberal
opinions in Florence, and had ben in existence for the last
six weeks. In that newspaper The statements made by his
correspondents as to the misdeeds, the tyranny, and the

duplicity of the Provisional Government had all been sub-
stantiated ; and the agents of th© Government, instead of
attempting to deny the facts, had endeavoured first to sup-
press the paper, and, failing in that, as a last-resource they

bought off the printer and other persons connected with the
paper. The result was that the publication had been sus-
pended for 10 days, but it was now again in existence; and
such was its circulation, and such was the credit attached
to its statements, that it was now published daily instead of
three times a week. The result of the discredit attempted
to be thrown on the facts stated by his correspondents was
that they had become matter of notoriety at Florence from
being published by some of the most respectable inhabitants.
As he had always foreseen, the only result of an interference
in Tuscan affairs was that the Mazzinian party was now
stronger and bolder than ever. The latest information
which he had received mentioned that three committees for
barricades were now established in Florence itself. The
noble and learned lord seemed likewise to throw great dis-
credit on what he had said with reference to the statements
ii the French papers. But those details of the atrocities
which had been committed were all confirmed the next day
in the other house by the noble lord the Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs. He had not directly charged the
Provisional Government with these acts, but he said they
were done by persons acting under their authority; for when
the regular Government was overthrown, and was assumed
by a person in the station of General Garibaldi, he had no
right to permit the commission of outrages ; and it was not
sufficient to say merely that he had in no way connived at
them. The reports from our own admiral on that station de-
clared General Garibaldi personally to be a man of great
moderation; but he was certainly not in a position to hold
diplomatic intercourse with our Government if he was un-
able to prevent these atrocious crimes.
Lord BROUGHAM—I am sure my noble friend and the
house will acquit me in anything which I said from casting
even the slightest imputation on my noble friend himself.
Correspondence undoubtedly means letters received as well
as sent, and when I described the very small value which I
attached to the correspondence of my noble friend I meant
letters which he had received, and not letters which he had
sent. Of those I had no means of judging, except from my
entire confidence in my noble friend, and whatever state-
ments were conveyed in those I am quite certain would be
accurate. The value which I attached to the let' ers con-
taining the details referred to by the noble marquis was
certainly of the very smallest, and nothing which has now
fallen from my noble friend has inclined me to raise that
estimate. My information from Florence is diametrically
opposed to that of my noble friend—(cheers)—though I
have no doubt whatever that he will attach as little value
to my correspondence as I have attached to his, I believe
that the Government of Florence is not subject to the im-
putations cast upon it by the correspondents of my noble
friend, but that it is perfectly free from those charges. As
to that celebrated individual—not more celebrated than
ho deserves—(hear, hear)—General Garibaldi, I am exceed-
ingly glad indeed to hear that my noble friend does not at
all impute to him those excesses which he says have been
committed in the course of the revolutionary proceedings
which have taken place in Sicily. I know I did not quite
so understand my noble friend on a former occasion, and
to-night I thought that, if he did not quite actually charge
these excesses upon General Garibaldi, he more than in-
sinuates that he is answerable for them. I suppose my
noble friend means that a man who is in supreme power is
answerable for everything which is done during his dicta-
torship, but in no other sense can General Garibaldi be
answerable for any of those offences to which reference has
been made. (Hear, hear.) My noble friend seems to be
under the impression that the Secretary of State admitted
those excesses the other night in the other House of Par-
liament, and also that General Garibaldi had something
to do with them, but my belief is that he peremptorily de-
nied it—(hear)—as I do now upon his authority and upon
all other authorities who have any knowledge of the matter.
(Hear, hear.) There is no cause known in history which
has met with more universal acceptance than the cause of
the Sicilians—(cheers)—with General Garibaldi at their
head, against the tyrant of Sicily and his emissaries, whether
in the shape of sbirri or soldiers—the soldiers, I verily be-
lieve, but for a season about to remain in allegiance to him.
I am told there is a constitution about to be imposed, not
upon Sicily, for that is out of the question, but upon Naples;
in my firm belief, and in my entire hope and prayer, that
constitution will utterly fail to save that detestable tyranny.
(Cheers.)
The Marquis of NORMANBY said he had never alleged
that General Garibaldi was personally chargeable for these
excesses in the sense belonging to those who inflicted them.
What he had said, and what he now repeated, was that when
a man, in violation of the law of nations, assumed possession
of supreme power in a country like Naples, or any other
country, he did render himself responsible for the outrages
which it was acknowledged had been committed in Sicily.
Lord BROUGHAM—My noble friend says that General
Garibaldi has assumed his position in violation of the law
of nations. All I can say in reply is that if the law of na-
tions is to be enforced to effect perpetual subjugation and
misery on any nation, the sooner we hear as little as possible
of the law of nations the better. (Hear, hear.)
Lord WODEHOUSE said the statement of the Foreign
Secretary in the other house went much further than a
denial of any proof that General Garibaldi had connived at
these excesses. On the contrary, the last accounts showed
that he had taken very severe measures to prevent them.
(Hear, hear.) When a man was placed in the position of
General Garibaldi it was not surprising that he should not
be able to prevent the commission of everything of which
he disapproved. (Hear, hear.) He certainly deserved
the highest credit for the ge.aerosity and moderation which
he had displayed. It must not be forgotten, too, that if
some outrages had been committed in the excitement of a
revolution outrages had been previously committed by the
Royal troops which were perfectly well known to all the
world, and which were unsurpassed by anything of which
the oppressed people of Sicily had been guilty. (Hear.)
The conversation then dropped.
NAVAL DISCIPLINE BILL.

The Duke of SOMERSET, in moving the second read-
ing of this bill, said that it was nearly a century since the
act was brought in which goveraed the discipline of the
navy, and the changes of the law and the progress of public
opinion with regard to the navy rendered it very desirable

that amendments should be introduced and the law revised.
Neither offences nor punishments were clearly defined. A
paper which was in their lordships' hands showed the spirit
in which it was intended by this bill to deal with the sub-
ject. It was proposed to deal with it on principles of jus-
tice and humanity, without relaxing in any degree the dis-
cipline of the navy. The men would know what punish-
ments they incurred, and that the object was to keep good
order among themselves, without which they could have no
comfort or safety on board ship. With an ill-disciplined
crew, the insubordinate and disorderly shirked work, and,
as the work must be done, it fell upon the orderly and
subordinate. It was, therefore, in the interest of the orderly
men that the disorderly should be punished. It was pro-
posed to do away with the almost universal punishment of
death which stood in the old code. It was never inflicted
in a great many cases, and it was desirable the men should
know what in those cases their punishment really would
be. He had received a great many suggestions from officers
who were competent to form a sound opinion upon several
of the details, some of which he intended to adopt. After
the second reading he should propose to go into committee
pro forma, in order to introduce those amendments, and the
bill might be debated and reconsidered on going again into
committee on a future day. There were many reasons why
it was desirable to pass the bill this year. They had heard
with regret of disturbances in vessels both at home and
abroad, and he was told that one great fault of the present
law was that the petty officers, who should come in between
the officers and seamen, though protected on board ship, were
not protected sufficiently on shore. They were often injured
and insulted on shore by the men whose conduct they had
found fault with on board ship. It was therefore most de-
sirable that a clause should be inserted to protect the petty
officers on shore, as well as on board ship. (Hear, hear.)
The continuance of corporal punishment in the navy was a
(motion which he had ccuidered very artfully, and had