The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-13 00:00:00

DOCK YARD LABOURERS.

Viscount DUNGANNON gave notice that on the 22d
of June he should ask whether there was any truth in the
report that on a recent occasion a number of dockyard la-
bourers presented themselves at the Thames Police-court,
representing they could get better wages at Cherbourg
than they could in this country, and therefore asking for
passports to France with a view of obtaining employment
there.

MASTER AND OPERATIVES BILL.
This bill was read a first time.
LIGHT WEIGHT RACING BILL.
Earl DERBY presented a petition from the Jockey
Club disapproving of this bill. He would reserve to him-
self his objections to the bill, until he had heard on what
grounds the noble lord introduced the measure.
Lord REDESDALE then moved that the bill be read a
second time. Having referred to the petition presented by
the noble earl, he said he should like to know whether the
objection of the Jockey Club was to the principle of the bill or
to the minimum he had fixed, viz., 6 stone. He had waited
for a long time to ascertain whether the Jockey Club would
take the, subject up with a view of effecting some improve-
ment in the system, but that not having been done he
felt it his duty to proceed with this bill. Its principle I
was to raise the average weights carried. by race horses at
the present time, and to prevent the gambling incidental to
what were known as light weight handicaps. Its system
was greatly on the increase, and ought to be immediately
put a stop to. To illustrate this, he referred to
the race for the Chester Cup. Twenty-five horses
started for this race, of which only five carried more
than seven stone. The highest weight carried was nine
stone. Eight horses carried six, stone, " and the rest
carried very light weights indeed, Many of their
lordships familiar with horse-racing would see the evil of
this, and he thought they would agree that some legis-
lative enactment was really necessary. He had received
numerous letters expressing hopes that his bill would pass,
and amongst these memorialists a number of trainers, who
pointed out the dangers of the present system, many boys
being put upon horses, by which their lives were
endangered. He could not think that it was thought
desirable that' such a system should longer exist,
and he only asked their lordships for one moment
to reflect upon the cruelty and danger of putting a mere
child who, with bridle and saddle, weighed but 4st. 41b. on
a powerful horse, what control could such &person have
over such an animal. Another objection to the employment
of boys, was the bad influences they were subjected to. The
next point to which he would direct the attention of the
house was, that the more the light weight handicap
system came into practice there was a sensible deterioration
in the breed of racehorses, and, added to this, the gambling
that was permitted, he might really say encouraged, by the
legislature, on the ground that racing improved the breed
of horses. He could not agree with such opinions; on the con-
trary, he thought that which tended to create gambling was
bad, and certainly could not be deemed worthy of support.
The Jockey Club could have dealt with the subject if they
chose, but as they had not done so he thought their lord-
ships would be of opinion that something must be done. The
bill had been five months before the house, and as there
had been meeting after meeting of the Jockey Club and no
notice whatever had been taken of it, he was justified in
proceeding with it, especially as it was approved of by
such eminent trainers as John Scott, Rogers, Sly, Bartho-
lomew, Taylor, Boyde, and others.
The Duke of BEAUFORT opposed the bill. He said
it was nearly the unanimous opinion of the Jockey Club
that the bill would act injuriously towards a great number
of people, and do no good to racing.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA was understood to oppose
the bill, and to protest against the charges brought by Lord
Redesdale against the supporters of the turf. He was con-
vinced that the breed of horses was improved by the use of
light weights. The bill fixed a minimum, but not a
maximum weight. If the bill were to pass, the same boys
would ride as were now employed, merely carrying extra
dead weight. (Laughter.) At present two horses would
fetch £.8,000 or £9,0J0; was that a sign of the depreciation
of the breed ? (Hear.) When all the world was looking
to the sportsmen of England to give them lessons in the
art, this bill would be the greatest rebuff they have ever
received since the days of Charles I. He objected to the
bill as interfering with the arrangements of private gentle-
men, and the sooner their lordships rejected it the better.
The Marquis of CLANRIC ARDE thanked the noble
lord for bringing this bill forward, and sincerely hoped that
it would pass on grounds of humanity. He viewed with
distrust any restrictions on the rights of labour, but in many
cases they were necessary. The •children employed as light
weights were subject to continual accidents, merely to mi-
nister to the pleasure of certain individuals. (Hear.) The
great studs of the country did not belong to those who ran
light handicap races ; our best horses were those that had
plenty of bone and sinew. He objected to horses being run
so young ; they ought to be reserved till they were stronger.
The late Lord Jersey had never run his horses till they
were old enough to run for the Derby. It would be a good
thing to put an end to two-year-old races. He hoped that
the bill would pass, on the grounds of humanity. A fearful
accident had occurred to a child of sst, weight at the late
Hampton races.

Earl GRANVILLE said this was no question of party;
the arguments of the different speakers had been rather in
analogy with the different kinds of racing which they ad-
vocated. He thought that the measure which had been
introduced into the house involved details which were
scarcely a fit subject for the discussion of their lordships in
Parliament. One of the arguments which had been
adduced in its favour was that it would tend to improve
the breed of racehorses. But he believed , that the Jockey
Club were opposed to the principle of the bill. He under-
stood the Jockey Club had no legal power or right of legis-
lation on this subject. (Hear, hear.) They were the
landlords of part of Newmarket Heath, and there,
therefore, they were enabled to enforce certain regula -
tions. At other races they had no power whatever, and
it was only by consent that their regulations were adopted.
But did they consist of so exclusive a class—were they a
body of men so bound up in their particular amusements
that they were unable to form an unbiassed judgment on
this question ? He had examined the list of the Jockey Club
and found that it consisted of 54 members. Some of them
were members of agricultural societies; some were cavalry
and yeomanry officers ; 10 of them were masters of* fox-
hounds ;20 of them were privy councillors—(a laugh)—and
of these privy councillors, two had been Postmasters-Gene-
ral, two Viceroys of Ireland, seven had been Cabinet Mini-
sters, and two of them had been Prime Ministers twice in
their respective lives. (Laughter.) The members who com-
posed this body were backed up in'their views by a large
body of the owners of racehorses, and he thought their opi-
nions on this question were enti.led to great weight. There
were, however, two grounds upon which he thought it
would not be desirable for their lordships to take legislative
action on this question. First, as to the argument of huma-
nity towards the boys employed in racing, he thought not
much stress could be laid upon that. It was perfectly im-
possible to compare their ease with that of great masses of
the population employed in mines and factories, in which
boys of tender years were formerly engaged for many hours
a day. Their lordships mighisad well legislate against boys
going out birds' nesting—(a laugh)—or provide that no boy
should be allowed to go into the river till ho had learned
to swim. (A laugh.) Their lordships might be amused,
but he could assure them that upon one occasion when he
(Earl Granville) wished to bathe in the river Danube, he
found that he was obliged to exhibit himself in a small
pool--(beat laughter)—in the presence of two gentle-
men in uniform, before he was allowed to bathe in the
river. Their lordships would not be prepared to adopt any
such regulations as .that. Then it had been said that
gambling and other great malpractices wore connected
• with the present system. But did their lordships really
suppose that this bill would prevent gambling ? The idea
was perfectly futile. If a7oung men could not be pre-
vented from acquiring habits of gambling by an act of par •
liament, it surely was far better not to attempt to pass a
measure on the ground of its being directed against these
possible frauds and nefarious practices. As to the breed of
horses, he totally disbelieved in the alleged deterioration in
the breed of horses in this country. (Hear, hear.) As:the
noble duke had alluded to the subject, perhaps the house
would not think it unbecoming inlim (Earl Granville) to
allude to a conversation which he had had that day with a
large dealer in horses and jobmaster. It was clearly the
interest of a man in his position to make out that there
was great difficulty in getting good horses. But according
to the statements of this dealer, although there was an un-
usual demand for a certain class of showy horses with high
stepping action, yet he said, if he were asked his opinion
whether he could find less horses than formerly of great
strength and good breed for ordinary purposes, he certainly
thought, notwithstanding the drain from foreign countries
that they were more abundant than ever. It was true that
the foreman of this dealer, upon being asked a similar
question, said that the complaints about the want of horses
were universal ; but then, upon further questioning, he
added that he never knew a time when the same remark
was not made. (A laugh.) One hundred and twenty years
ago the same fears seemed to have prevailed about the
frightful deterioration of horses. But that rumour when
examined, turned out to be without foUndation, and he
thought that the present would be found to be equally un-
substantial. For these reasons he was not inclined to sup-
port the measure of the noble lord. He thought it desir-
able that the Jockey Club should examine this subject
rather than their lordships. He thought that there was
too great a desire to legislate upon every trivial question.,
(Hear, hear.) There was an old maxim, 4' De minimis