The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-29 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YEsTEBDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.

;PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The Farringdon Railway and Hay Railway Bills were
read a second time.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Hamilton and Strathaven, and Hereford, Hay, and Brecon
Railways.

POPISH KIDNAPPING.
Viscount DUNGANNON presented a petition from a
place in Ireland complaining of the frequent violation of the
liberty of the subject by the forcible ;detention of young
children by persons professing the Romish religion. The
petitioners stated that the law as it at present stood was
not sufficient for the 'protection of the subject or the punish-
ment of the offenders. The petitioners prayed that their
lordships would immediately take the subject into their
consideration, with a view to adopt some remedy for the
evil complained of.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that by the law as it

at present stood;persons committing such offences could be
punished.

ST. GEORGE'S-IN-THE-EAST.

Viscount DUNGANNON gave notice that on Friday,
the 6th of July, he should call attention to the serious riots
said disturbances that continue to take place week after week
in this parish. He should more particularly allude
to the riots of the 17th and 24th of July, and afterwards
he would inquire what steps the Government had taken to
suppress the disgraceful proceedings.
MASTERS AND OPERATIVES BILL.
Earl GREYpresentedapetition from Sunderland against
this bill. The noble lord said he agreed in general with the
petitioners, and he hoped their lordships would pay parti-
cular attention to the bill when it came under their consi-
deration.

Lord BROUGHAM agreed with the noble earl, and said
men might legally combine for certain purposes, but it was
illegal for them to combine to compel others to adopt views
in consonance with those they entertained on any particu-

lar subject.
Lord CRANWORTH, said within the last few hours a
deputation had waited upon him, who pointed out several
inconsistencies in the measure.
VALE OF CLWYD EXTENSION BILL.
The standing orders were considered and suspended, in
order that this bill might be proceeded with.
ADULTERATION OF FOOD BILL.
This bill, on the motion of Lord REDESDALE, was read a
third time and passed.
SHELTER FOR SHIPPING.
Tho Marquis of CLANRICARDE called attention to
the unprotected state of the coast with respect
to any shelter for shipping during storms. He should like
to know how far it was practicable to afford better shelter
for those ships upon our coasts than was at present afforded
by the adoption of some plan for the construction of break-
waters and harbours less costly and better adapted
for certain localities than the system of solid
masonry hitherto in use, and he wished to know
whether any such plan appeared likely to be also service-
able for the improvement of our national defences. The
loss of life and property on our coasts during the last few
years was very great, and it was much to be regretted that
it was on the increase. The mercantile marine he looked
upon as the nursery of the navy, and such being the case
it was the duty of Parliament to do everything that was
calculated to be of service or protection to them. Year
after year large sacrifices of human life occurred, and many
hundreds of poor fellows left England who never returned ;
and the misery and destitution that was occasioned by such
a calamity was enormous. The noble lord then alluded
to the report of the commission which had sat upon the
subject, and quoted some remarks of Sir J. Burgoyne,
which he said was clearly against the plan proposed
in that report, yet Parliament had voted sums
of money for the carrying out these recommendations,
totally disregarding all other plans but solid masonry.
The system of running out solid blocks of masonry was per-
fectly useless, and experience had proved that to be the
case, and he thought it would be a waste of money to con-
tinue such a system. Where there was silt, this masonry
did not prevent the formation of bars, and the stone was
found to be far from durable. The harbour at Dover
he thought was the greatest failure that had ever occurred,
and after the vast sums of money that had been ex-
pended, the result had been so very far from
the object intended. There were several other places
beside Dover, where extensive works were going en, but he
feared the same useless result would follow. The
only ground he could see why these works were
being carried out was because they were very large
and expensive, and unfortunately any engineer in this
country who was connected with any very extensive work
obtained a great reputationfrom that fact. His own opinion
was that the persons to be employed in constructing these
works should be scientific men, thoroughly acquainted wi th
the natural laws regulating the movement of the waves and
their reflux ; that they should be engineers who had been in
the habit of constructing such works ; and that, above all,
nautical men should be combined with them. At present
there was no want of engineers, but it was too much the
habit to employ men without having due regard to the
nature of the works upon which they were to be engaged.
No doubt he opinion of nautical men was taken even under
the present system ; but what he complained of was that
the value of that nautical opinion was invariably determined
by the engineer. Before proceeding to expend such enor-
mous sums of money as £BOO,OOO, which he believed was
proposed to be incurred in one instance, he thought it would
be more economical to try an experiment elsewhere, even if
it involved the cost of one, two, or five thousand pounds.
He thought that a great responsibility at present rested on
the Government and both houses of Parliament, if they did
not without delay thoroughly inquire into the question ;
and in conclusion he begged to move for the appointment of
a select committee to investigate the matter.
The Duke of SOMERSET was of opinion that no amount
of expenditure would be refused by Parliament when the
object was to secure protection for the lives and property of
our seamen ; but it was not merely by considering the ques-
tion of harbours of refuge and breakwaters that knowledge
could be obtained upon the subject. The question had been
considered by many former committees, and especially by the
committee on sh;pwrecks, and the result arrived at was that
so long as the shipowners could recover from insurance com-
panies the amount for which their vessels were insured they
were careless as to what became of them. As regarded
the number of schemes which had been proposed for
harbours of refuge, their lordships were aware that they
had been most extensive and costly ; and the more
the evidence upon the question was examined, the
more perplexing the whole subject became. The most
distinguished engineers differed very materially from
each other in the opinion upon every scheme hitherto pro-
posed. By the terms of the noble marquis's motion ho
peered to object to every harbour and breakwater construc-
ted of solid masonry, but he (the Duke of Somerset) was
not aware, from any infornaat-on he possessed, that any
better system could be adopted. Floating breakwaters had
been proposed by Admiral Taylor and other naval officers,
and their proposals were submitted to a select committee in
1843, who came to the conclusion that there was not sufficient
evidence to justify the expenditure of the public money in
the experimental construction of a floating breakwater.
Floating breakwaters were open to this serious drawback,
that ix the event of any casualty the consequences must
be most disastrous to :any vessels riding in the harbour.
There was a breakwater at Dover, but it had failed. There
had been another at Brighton, built by Admiral Taylor, but
in consequence of a gale of wind it came on shore, experi-
mentally exemplifying what the commissioners had said
would happen in such a case. Last February a company
had proposed to erect a floating breakwater at Hastings.
After taking legal advice as to how far the Admiralty
would be responsible for the consequences of such a struc-
ture, he wrote to the company, stating that the Admi-
ralty were prepared to give assent to its construction ,
upon the distinct understanding that they were not to
be held in any degree responsible for any damage or
injuries that might occur to • vessels trusting to the
protection of the breakwater. How far the company
were satisfied with that answer, or prepared to take the
whole responsibility upon themselves, he could not say,
ksiving since that time had no communication from them ;
but he believed their lordships would be most unwilling to
undertake the establishment of a breakwater upon any such
terms. No v, all the light vessels along shore were fastened
in what was supposed to be the most secure manner that
could be devis,a,/, but in 1841 the three light vessels in
the North Sea par ted their anchors and went to sea ; and
was it not probable' that if there had been a floating
breakwater at the th 'ne it would also have gone out to sea ?
lie was aware that br vakwaters had not been successful in
anY respects, and oce reason was that engineers dif-
teroedv se much as to plans, and so also did successive
eminent'. Last year he (the noble duke) went to
Alderney to look
re,. at thie breakwater there, accompanied by
luary Lula
come under
r dvil
engi ears. About 14 different plans had
der the emmidieration of successive Governments
course would
fc, that breakwater, but as far as he could judge the best
be to a kw.don the project, even after all the
money that'
had been- *Vent upon it. Then as to the harbour
of Holyhead it was true it had net been carried ou tu on
such a scale as *it should have been.
Portland harbour pwas
one of solid w wk, proceeding from the shore ; but then
there was ever 'facility and material on the spot for con-
structing a had bour there. The noble marquis had said
Dover harbour vas an unsuccessful one.
Nellitwasso
furthera
t
present ; but wh en the pier was carried out a
little
trr ver eat bar •
it would be }fount.}fount.very useful. There were 12
hours of refuge p. ropcised, but it required the Government
to pause before it .adop,ed any one of them, and he
should
be very sorry to p te edge himself to any one of these harboursuid
without further ii .srmation. The noble marquis wishedf,r '
committee, but,; if it was merely a committee to consider
the construction o: f breakwaters and harbours at a less cost
than at present, hi ) could net see the wisdom of entering
upon a new inqui rJ , and ho did not think such a committee
would be of any is 3 at the present time. He thought it
I ,
would be much b ett er that the question
mto t bring
dfobe left
ard what
upon
the responsibility " the Government
t hey thought won fel be the best en
plan for the geonstruetion of
harbours of refnge, (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of IfX4 IVICKE said, as the zioble, ciao had