The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-07 00:00:00

EE SUN, LONDON, riteRSDAY ';EVENING,4 JUNV"I, 1660,

. .
must speedily
applied. In soma places the - meeting, believing that a willingness exists on the
police are constantly stationed, in order to regulate principal retail firms of the West-end of London to
the order in which vehicles shall pass. If an em- adopt some earlier hour of closing on Saturday,
bankment be decided upon I apprehend it would desires to render every facility for that purpose,
be necessary to open a roadway at on ••• from the and pledges itself not to make purchases at so
Mansion-house, in order that the traffic through advanced an hour on Saturday as may interfere
Cheapside might be relieved, It would also be with such an arrangement."
necessary, before the traffic by way of the new road Mr. BENJAMIN SHAW seconded this resolution,
in Southwark could find its way o the City by which was duly carried.
Blackfriars-Bridge, it should be rebuilt or much Mr. JAY, in moving a vote of thanks to the chair-
improved. A great portion of the traffic would, man, bore his strong testimony to the importance
however, pass down Stamford-street, and use and entire practicability of the half-holiday move-
Waterloo-bridge. The Board of Works are anxious, ment. As an employer having a business esta-
if they can see their way clearly, to purchase the blishment in Regent-street, he was quite sure the
tell there, and throw the bridge open to the public. shops might terminate business at three o'clock on
By Sir J. Pakington—The price asked for the Saturdays without any detriment to the employers.
tolls is £600,000. It was well known that certain shops cultivated a
Captain Veitch, engineer to the Board of Admi- Trade for a particular class of customers, and that
ralty, was then examined, and gate a detailed state- they secured a particular class of society from that
ment of a plan which he had prepared some years circumstance. This state of things would not be
ago for the embankment of the Thames. altered by the proposed change in the hour of
The committee then adjourned. closi
Mnr.g.
W. LocKE seconded the vote of thanks to the
noble chairman, and thought his lordship well de-
served the hearty support of all who were interested
in the welfare of young men. He (the speaker)
highly approved the Rifle Volunteering as a peace
movement, and he thought the half-holiday would
tend much to help forward the volunteering. All
classes of society worked too hard, and shoud take
more recreation. In their schoolboy days they en-
joyed a half-holiday, and why not now ? He and
a dozen others, woollen warehousemen at the West-
end, had closed since the Ist of January at three
o'clock on Saturday, and had found it a good thing,
not lessening the amount of business, but pro•
moting the health and comfort of all their young
men. It only required that the ladies should add
their names to the list of the noble 73 who had de-
clared that they would no longer shop after two on
Saturday, and the thing would be done.
Mr. DANIELL said the responsibility of the suc-
cess of this movement does not—must not, be re-
ferred only to the ladies. Let the employers be true
to themselves, act as independent men, and close
their establishments at two o'clock on Saturdays,
and the result was achieved ; and as, from 23 years
actively employ ed in Bond-street, to himself and
his assistants the boon would be most grateful, he
called on his friends and neighbours to begin at
once.

THE EARLY CLOSING ASSOCIATION.

A public meeting in furtherance of the objects of
this association, and as specially tending thereby to
the extension of the Rifle Volunteer movement, was
held yesterday, at St. James's-hall, Lord Elcho,
M.P., in the chair.

Among others present were the Earl of Shaftes
bury, Lord Grosvenor, Lord Radstock, Viscount
Ranelagh, Mr. A. Mills, Mr. George Hitchcock,
Mr. James Shoolbred, jun., Mr. William Debenham,
Mr. W. C. Jay, Mr. Grant, Mr. Wm. Locke, Mr.
Alfred Daniell, and Mr. Willey.
The CRAIRMAN, in rising to introduce the business
of the meeting, expressed a wish before doing so
that he should be allowed to tender an apology for
occupying such a position while he saw at his right
hand the Earl of Shaftesbury, the champion of
labour, who, through his exertion, had brought
happiness to the homes of the working classes, and
others, such as Lord Radstock and Mr. Mills, who
had laboured in the promotion of the good cause
they were then met to advance when it was not so
popular as it was now, while he himself was not
even a member of the association. His only apo-
logy was the connexion between the early closing
movement and the Rifle Volunteer movement. The
necessity of relaxation from labour and of occasional
half holidays had been so frequently urged by the
association that it did not require to be proved or
to be dilated on at any length. He did not wish,
either, on the other hand, to make a speech on na-
tional defences. The Volunteer force being called
into existence by one Government, and promoted
in its development by a succeeding Government,
had become a great success and an important means
of national defence. Sir Howard Douglas, Sir
John Burgoyne, and other military authorities had
testified to its efficiency. He did not wish, being
a Volunteer himself, to praise them too much, yet
he could not refrain from referring to the late re-
view of the London Brigade by their commanding
officer, the Duke of Cambridge, at the Horse Guards,
on which occasion the latter expressed himself so
highly satisfied with their appearance. A military
gentleman connected with the French Embassy in
London, being present also on that occasion, had
mentioned that he went to the review expecting to
see a National Guard, but he saw " troops." The
Earl of Tankerville, on the same occasion, over-
, heard two of the Guards, with Crimean medals on
their breasts, indulge in the following colloquy :
—" I say, Bill, those chaps are better than the
Militia." To which Bill replied, " But they are
gentlemen." The first interlocutor replied, " Give
them six months" -- not implying, his lord-
ship observed, six months at the treadmill, as the
expression usually did, and as he would have to the
man who shot the dog, but six months' longer drill,
in which time the Guardsman considered they
would equal them. The speaker, after testifying
to the greater efficiency of several particular corps,
referred to the social importance of the movement
by bringing all grades of society together, and har-
monising the dissensions bred of differences of
opinion. He believed that there was nothing to
prevent artisans joining in the movement. In his
own corps there were 100 of this class who paid
their own outfit of about £3 each by instalments.
In some cases there had been artisan companies
formed, but this his lordship did not approve, as
it tended to continue the class system, and to neu-
tralise one of the great advantages of the move-
ment. After alluding to the physical advantages
of the drill, he referred to the opposition against the
movement, and especially to a letter that had re-
cently appeared in the newspapers, addressed from
18, Ludgate-hill, and signed "Alfred le Measurer."
Inquiries bad been made at this address, and no such
person had been found, and it was decided that the
signature was a nom de plume. After facetiously
expressing the wish that the idea of a Household
' Brigade should be carried out, he observed that it
was right that some jealousy should exist between
master and men engaged in the drapery as well as in
other trades ; but there was no fear of a desolating
strike arising; He would be sorry to countenance
anything like a coercive measure on the part of the
assistant drapers in endeavouring to obtain their
wishes. He had been applied to some months ago to
forward the movement,but declined,fearing the latter
influence, and a short time since, being applied to
again, and informed that if ladies, customers of West-
end houses, would refrain from shopping on Satur-
day afternoon the object of the Saturday holiday
would be gained, with this view numerous ladies
had been communicated with, and many had given
their consent. Seventy-three names appeared
pledged to this in the papers of yesterday ; others,
consenting, did not wish that publicity given to
their names; while several favourable replies had
been received since, and more were expected.
Alluding to the restriction of the hours of labour,
he remembered, about the year 1841, when first he
entered Parliament, Sir J. Graham, the then Home
Secretary, was making the greatest exertions in
opposition to the Earl of Shaftesbury, to prevent
such a restriction, and presaging the worst conse-
quences. Since then, however, on the passing of
the Bleaching Bill, the former gentleman stated
that the opinions which he had previously ex-
pressed with reference to the ten hours' movement
had been unfounded, and that the amount of labour
had not decreased thereby. Mr. Roebuck also ex-
pressed a similar change of opinion. The speaker
next read extracts of correspondence from Edin-
burgh, where the movement of the Saturday half-
holiday had been generally adopted, testifying
that no inconvenience or loss accrued to the mas-
ters by the plan. He intimated also that Mr. Locke,
of Regent-street, and other representatives of West-
end houses were favourable to the movement, be-
lieving that its results would be beneficial to
employer and employed.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY endorsed the state-
ments made by the chairman, and paid a compli-
ment to the exertions that he and his coadjutors
had made in reference to the volunteer movement.
He believed that the country owed them a debt of
gratitude for those exertions. With reference to the
relaxation of the hours of labour, it was true that no
diminution of wages and no diminution of work had
arisen through its adoption ; but, on the contrary, a
thousandfold increase of the health and enjoyments
of the workmen. Both Sir Jas. Graham and Mr.
Roebuck deserved great praise for their generosity
and candour in stating their changes of opinion on
this subject. He had received a similar confession
from a large capitalist and manufacturer, who was
the most determined opponent he ever had to the
movement. He believed that the Rifle Volunteer
movement and the early closing movement had
formed an alliance. Alluding to the threatening
appearance of Europe, he trusted that although,
through the adoption of steam power in modern
warfare, the safety of Britain in her insular posi-
tion had been removed, she would always be found
prepared to defend her rights and her numerous
privileges. He had been afraid that the Rifle
movement on its introduction would degenerate into
a mere show of archery, but he was never so agree-
ably disappointed or so proud as on going to the
late Volunteer levee, expecting to see an awkward
squad of young men not knowing how to carry
their helmets, and riding their swords, to find the
case quite different, and all possessed of a soldier-
like bearing free from anything like arrogance.
He hoped that the movement would now become
one of the institutions of the country, and he did
not think that they asked too much of the ladies
when they wished them merely to give up the
pleasure of a few hours' shopping on the Saturday
afternoon, and the employers to give up a pro-
blematical profit. The advantage on the one hand
was small ; on the other the young men were pre.
pared to give their time and their strength in the
defence of the country. His lordship concluded by
moving the following resolution :—" That this
meeting views with much satisfaction the progress
of the Saturday half-holiday among the trading
and commercial establishments of the metropolis
and many important towns of the United King-
dom, and trusts that the efforts made for the ex-
tension of the movement wherever practicable will
meet with success."

Mr. ARTHUR MILLS seconded the resolution,
and adverted to the influence of the Saturday halt-
holiday on the dui observance of Sunday.
The Rev. Mr. BELLEW supported the resolution,
which was carried unanimously.
Lord GROSVENOR moved the second resolution :
"That, while generally approving the objects of
tdeplheeEyarly Closing Association, this meeting is
impressed with the peculiar importance of
the Saturday half-holiday as an auxiliary to the
Volunteer Rifle Corps movement."
Lord RADSTOCK seconded the resolution, which
was carried unanimously.
The Rev. Mr. LANDELS moved :—" That this

THE CEYBUS BILL.

A number of gentlemen connected with the
several nonconformist bodies, but including some
few members of the el.urch of England, assembled
yesterday at Fendall's Hotel, Palace-yard, to take
steps for defeating that portion of the Census Bill
which requires returns to be made in the census of
1861 of the religious profession of the people in all

cases. Sir M. Peto, M.P., presided ; and there were
also present Mr. Bazley, M.P., Mr. Hadfield, M.P.,
Mr. Pease, M.P., Mr. Baxter, M,P., Mr. Ewing,M.P.,
Mr. Wyld, M.P., Mr. Padmore, M.P., Mr. Lawson,
M.P., Mr. Salt, M.P., Mr. Stansfeld, M.P., Mr.
Whalley, M.P., Mr. Norris, M.P , Mr. F. Crossley,
M.P•, Mr. Leatham, Mr. Forster, M.P., Mr.
J. Heywood, Mr. Miall, Mr. A. Pellatt, and a con-
siderable body of ministers of the different denomi-
nations.

The CHAIRMAN, in opening the proceedings,
called attention to the great importance of the
question they were met to discuss, and observed
that he had had the pleasure of going up with one
or two deputations to the Premier in reference to
it; but he feared, fro 21 the reception the noble lord
gave them, and from what has since transpired
elsewhere, unless the "country unmistakeably ex-
pressed its opinion, they would have that forced
upon them which they would all have occasion to
regret.
The Rev. GEORGE SMITH moved the first resolu-
tion—" That the provision in the bill for taking
the next census of the population proposinc, to
compel, by means of a penalty, a statement of the
religious profession' of every inhabitant of the
country, is regarded by this meeting as an unwar-
rantable exercise of authority, and as repugnant to
the spirit of modern legislation. That the replies
obtained would inevitably be to a large extent de-
fective, ambiguous, and inaccurate, and that the
proposed withdrawal of the penalty, instead of
mitigating the evil, would, by inducing a numerous
section of the community to withhold the desired
information, render the returns more inconclusive.
That, as no useful purpose can possibly be served
by such returns, the meeting is constrained to be-
lieve that it is intended to further the designs of
an ecclesiastical party who seek to cast discredit on
the census of 1851." He was present at the depu-
tation to Lord Palmerston, and he had very little
hope from what occurred then that any, alteration
would be made voluntarily by the Government in
that part of the bill that was objected to by the
dissenting body. The Government ought to have
nothing to do with the matter, and there was no

doubt That there was an ulterior and concealed
object in view, viz., to detract from the position
which the dissenting body held under the returns
of 1851.

Dr. Hoprus, in seconding the motion, suggested
that it would be well to let it be understood that
all those who signed themselves as churchmen
should be the parties liable to the payment of
church.rates.

Mr. HADFIELD, M.P., supported the resolution.
Sir Cornewall Lewis's suggestion that there should
be a general whip of the dissenting body on the
census day was, he thought, a very good one. The
church had made great exertions during the last
ten years, and it would be well if the Dissenters
followed their example, and showed by a united
organisation what their real position in the coun-
try relatively to the church was. He could not but
express his astonishment that the present Ministry
should have lent themselves to a scheme evidently
put forward by the Established Church for the pur-
pose of unfairly exalting its own position in the
country to the prejudice of the Dissenters. Seeing
what the present Government owed to the dissent-
ing body, the manner in which they repelled them
when they went to them upon matters pertaining
to dissenting interests was almost unaccountable ;
and certainly he thought the time had come when
they ought to insist upon being placed on equal
terms with those who represented the highest de-
partments in the State in the matter of religion.
(Hear, hear.) He complained that on a recent

occasion language of opprobrium and contempt had
been used towards the Dissenters in the House of
Lords when the Church of England was spoken of
as superior to all other religious denominations in
the country, and they (the Dissenters) were re-
quired, as the terms upon which they held their
privileges, and were allowed toleration, to acknow-
ledge that superiority. He contended that it was
shameful in these days that there should be one
class of religionists claiming superiority, and that
another more numerous should be regarded as in a
state of dependency. This clause in the Census
Bill was an unworthy attempt to give colour to
this assumption of superiority ; and as he held that
the Dissenters were entitled to stand on equal terms
with the Established Church, he trusted it would be
effectually resisted. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. llEvwooD believed the reason why the
Government paid more attention to the representa-
tions of the Church than to those of the Dissenters
was, that the Church was better organised, and was
enabled consequently to make its voice heard with
more effect. For that reason he was glad to see the
present meeting, representing as it did alt the vari-
ous sections of the dissenting body. It was of the
greatest importance that they should be united at
this juncture, and he trusted that they would at
once establish a permanent joint committee to watch
proceedings and to organise united action. He ac-
knowledged the value of the Liberation Society's
labours in the cause of religious freedom, but he
thought the time had come when another organisa-
tion was necessary. He saw in the papers that day
a reference to a petition from the clergy of Liver-
pool, expressing surprise that the provision in the
Census Bill requiring a return of the religious pro-
fession of every individual should be objected to by
This was the phrase they used when de-
scribing the whole of the dissenting body of this
country, urging that the information was necessary
to guide Parliament in legislating upon matters
affecting the interests of the Church, and praying
that the provision might be retained. This was
diametrioally the opposite position to that which
they, the Dissenters, took, and the one against
which they contended. He believed they had a
powerful hold upon the Government by their posi-
tion in the country, which, if exercised judiciously,
would be irresistible. The majority of the £lO
householders were, he thought he should be per-
fectly justified in stating, not members of the Esta-
blished Church; and the fact \ as in itself a power
which, if properly used, no government could with-
stand. (Cheers.)
Mr. WILD, M.P., considered that an important
principle was involved in this Government Census
Bill, which appeared to have been overlooked.
Hitherto it had not been the custom to inquire as to
the religious belief of persons employed in the pub-
lic service; but under this bill every person so em-
ployed would be compelled to state what was his re-
ligious opinions, and the result might be the intro-
duction of a system of proselytism which certainly
would not be conducive to the efficiencyofthe service,
and we should have here as in the sister country
religious feelings entering into the question of
qualification for employment in the public depart-
ments. This alone was a sufficient ground for op-
posing the portion of the bill referred to.
Mr. MIALL thought it wise to state the grievance
as fully gucl distinctly as possible. The census of

1651 obtained religious returns 'without personal
inquiry, and that census on the question of religion
produced important results. But as a Dissenter he
refrained from gain g to the Government and asking
them to obtain information as to ecclesiastical and
religious bodies by any of the machinery they em-
ployed. It was not the omission of that, provision
from the present bill that he complained of; but the
insertion of a provision for house to house inquiry,
which, whether the return were optional or under
a penalty, was an infringement of religious liberty.
But if optional returns could be depended upon he
should not so much object. They had been taunted
with desiring to conceal the truth; but what they
did. object to was, the publication under authority
as truth that which must necessarily be fallacious.
The object with which the clause was introduced
was an ecclesiastical one, and had been suggested
to the Home Secretary by parties who had taken
offence at the revelations which the census of 1831
disclosed, and their purpose was now to enumerate
as belonging to the Church all persons who were of
no religion at all—in other words, taking the last
census as the test in this respect, about one-third of
the entire population. (Hear.) He presumed that
there was a political object at bottom—either to
show a larger claim upon the public for material
assistance, or that they might be enabled the more
, successfully to meet the demands of the Dissenters
for justice. Remembering that but for the support
of the dissenting community, the present Govern-
ment would be " nowhere,' for them to lend them-
selves to an attempt so obviously designed to knock
down the prestige of the dissenting body, was an
affront that ought to be resented, and he would
suggest to the members of Parliament in the room
that it was quite possible to make a Government
very uneasy in their places, without endanger-
ing the main principles they were pledged to sup-
port. That was the course he would advise the
friends of the Dissenters in the House of Commons
to pursue. There were many minor measures and
minor movements, important to the Government,
which private members might facilitate or ob-
struct, according to the degree of confidence they
felt in the Ministry. He would not advise anyone
to obstruct the advance of his own principles for the
sake of avenging himself on those of whose conduct
he had reason to complain, but he thought those
who represented the Nonconformist body should
combine together to show the Government that
they were not to be permitted to do this act of in •
justice, recommended by no considerations of pub-
lic policy, but simply to gratify the pique of the
Home Secretary. He assured the meeting that all
his influence should be exercised to mark his sense
of resentment at this attempt of the Government to
injure, insult, and annoy the Dissenting body.
Mr. STANSFELD, M.P., spoke in support of the
resolution, and denounced the provision of the Cen-
sus Bill in question as inconsistent with the prin-
ciples of religious liberty. As he had stated to Sir
G. C. Lewis, who, he must say, had treated the de-
putation with a degree of coldness they could
hardly have expected, he looked upon it, not so
much as a fraudulent attempt to obtain apparently
authoritative statistics to serve the purposes of the
Church hereafter, as an infringement upon the
rights and consciences of individuals. If he were
to waive his objection in his own case by stating
his religious profession in the census return he was
called upon to fill up he should decidedly object to
play the spy for any Government by inquiring into
the religious views of every person who might hap-
pen on that particular day to be residing in his
house, as the clause under a penalty required of him.
The resolution was put and carried unanimously.
Mr. A. PELLATT moved the second resolution,
" That looking upon this uncalled-for departure
from the plan adopted in 1851 as a deliberate at-
tempt to inflictpolitical injury on Dissenters by means
of deceptive official statistics, the meeting urges
the necessity for such an expression of opinion
throughout the country as will induce Ministers to
abandon so indefensible a scheme, and for a distinct
intimation that, if it be persisted in, neither they
nor the members of the House of Commons who
may support it can retain the confidence of the
Dissenting body." He reminded the meeting that
when the Dissenters found it necessary to unite
they had done so, as in the removal of the Test
Acts, and he had no doubt that they would do so in
resisting this uncalled-for aggression upon their
rights. There was no reason for this part of the re-
turn, which would be most fallacious. It would, if
necessary, give Lord Palmerston a precedent. In
the case of prisons, nearly all the persons incarce-
rated in our gaols were required on entrance to
state their religion, and what was the consequence?
They returned themselves as members of the Church
of England, though they might be Roman Catholics
or Dissenters. A similar requirement in workhouses
had been found so undependable, that it had been
abandoned.
Mr. PEASE, M.P., seconded the motion, holding
that the proposed return would afford no statistics
that could give reliable information.
Mr. BENTLEY suggested that it should be left to
the National Society, and the people themselves
should be left to furnish the information as to the
Church of England, of which he said he was a
member.
The Rev. F. TRESTRAIL referred to the proceed-
ings of the Court of Aldermen at Guildhall on the
previous day, and expressed his surprise and grief
that Alderman Challis, of all men in the world,
should have said there world be no difficulty in ob-
taining the returns, and that 9-10ths of the Diss en-
ters would willingly give the required information.
The motion was agreed to.
The Rev. Mr. HINTON moved the adoption of the
following petition to the House of Commons, to be
signed by the chairman on behalf of the meeting,
and confided for presentation to E. Baines, Esq.,
M.P. :
" To the Honourable the Commons of Great Britain and
Ireland in Parliament assembled. The petition of the un-
dersigned members of various religious bodies assembled
at a meeting held at Fendall's Hotel, Westminster, June
6, 1860, showeth,
" That your petitioners entertain strong objections to the
provisions in the Census Bill requiring a stateme t of the
religious profession of every inhabitant of the country.
" That, in their judgment, such a requirement would be
an unwarrantable exercise of authority, and that while it
would fail to secure statistics on which any reliance could
be placed, it would occasion great irritation of feeling, tend
to infringement of civil rights, and be otherwise productive
of mischievous results.
" That in many cases—whether the inquiry be enforced
by a penalty or not—there will be a refusal to afford the
desired information.
" That, in others, the replies will, necessarily, b© too in-
definite and ambiguous to be of any practical value.
" That to a very serious extent the statements, contained
in the schedules will be inaccurate and misleading—partly
frun the ignorance, carelessness, or partisanship of house-
holders making a return of the religious professions of
others. and also from the mistakes of enumerators, who are
to be authorised to complete such of the schedules' as shall
appear to be defective, and cerrect such as they shall find
to be erroneous.'
" That, more especially, the returns must prove delusive,
because it is not the practice with Dissenters generally to
regard as members of their respective bodies those who do
not attend their places of worship, while, on the other
hand, numerous persons who never frequent episcopal, or
any other places of worship, will be returned as belonging
to the Church of England.

" That as no good end would be served by collecting sta-
tistics of such a character, Your petitioners deprecate the
employment of official machinery for such a purpose.
" They therefore pray your honourable house to amend
the 4th clause of the bill by omitting therefrom the words
religious profession.'
" And y .ur petitioners will every pray."
He denied that it could be received as a fact that
every one who did not belong to any religious com-
munion was to be taken as a member of the Church
of England, which was the impression it was in-
tended to convey; and he held that, apart from such
a return not conveying information as to the fact,
the Government had no right to put any machinery
in motion for obtaining, by information furnished
under compulsion or voluntarily, a knowledge of
that fact.

Mr. BAXTER, 111. P., seconded the resolution,
which was supported by
Mr. F. CROSSLEY, M.P., who said he believed
the Government would be prepared to give way on
the question of the fines and penalties, but that did
not meet the views of the dissenters. The census of
1851 showed that the members of the Church of
England were almost in a minority, and it was the
object now to show the Church in a better position.
The mode adopted at the last census—viz., of taking
the numbers according to the attendances at the
several places of religious worship on the Census
Sunday, was less objectionable, though that was
fallacious as affording means of a true statistical
return ; but the object of the Government and tha
Church party clearly was to make it appear that
many persons who were members of no religious
persuasion belonged to the Church of England, re-
lying upon the objection which persons naturally
entertained against acknowledging themselves to be
without religion.
Mr. TUCKER, as a member of the Church of Eng-
land, but agreeing in the objects of the meeting,
suggested that the petition should go up as from
" friends of religious liberty" generally, without
reference to dissenters.

Mr. 'WHALLEY, M.P., also desired, as a member
of the Church of England, to state his concurrence
with the views which had been expressed by the
various gentlemen who had preceded him.
The motion was carried.
The Rev. Mr. HENDERSON moved the fourth re-
molution—" That conies of the foregoing resolutions
he forwarded to the Prime Minister and the Home
Secretary, and to the members of the House of
Commons, and that the gentlemen who have con-
vened this meeting, together with the members of
Parliament present, be required to act as a com-
mittee, with power to -add to their number, for
adopting measures to secure the required amend-
ment of the bill."

Mr. NORRIS, M.P., seconded this resolution, and
stated that if the question was kept open he was