The Sun.
London, England, 1860-08-15 00:00:00

onyoung persons in many cases was excessive, and that the
present system required considerable improvement.
After some conversation the subject dropped.
TREASURY MINUTES.
Mr. GRIFFITH asked the Secretary to the Trensury' if
he was willing to furnish the names of the Lords Commis-
sioners of the Treasury who were personally present at the
meetings of the Board at which the Treasury minutes of
the following dates were adopted, and who gave orders for

their transmission to the authorities of the War •office as
answers to their communications : Treasury minute of June

21, 1858, and Treasury minute of January 21, 1859:
and, the dates of the meetings of the Treasury Board, and

the names cf the Lords Commissioners who were present,

who gave orders for the transmission of the following letters
from the Treasury to the War-office :—Letter dated Trea-
sury Chambers, the 24th day of December, 1859, signed S.
Laing, and letter, dated Treasury Chambers, the 31st day

of January, 1860, signed Geo. A. Hamilton:?
Mr. LAING said he could not give the honourable
member the exact information he required, be-
cause there were no records kept that would
enable him to do so, and even if there were he would not

feel justified in divulging the information in question.
The Lords Commissioners collectively were responsible for
the letters alluded to by the hon. member.

SUPPLY.
The house then went into committee of supply.
£1,000,000 was voted for Exchequer Bonds.
On the vote of £3,865 for the maintenance of British
Embassy Houses,
Mr. WILLIAMS moved that the vote should be reduced
by £650, the item for the Embassy House at Therapia.
He contended that the house in question was quite unne-
cessary, and repeated the statement he bad made on a for-
mer occason in regard te this subject.
Mr. COWPER said he understood that the whole dip-
lomatic body left Constantinople at a certain period of the
year and went to Therapia, so that it was necessary for the
British ambaor to have a house at the latter place. That
house was theft of the Sultan, and they could not dis-
pose of it.
£8,450 was voted for the consulate at Constantinople.
On the vote of £160,000 for harbours of refuge,
Mr. CONINGHAM objected to the item of £65,000 for
the harbour of Alderney. He said such harbour was un-
necessary, and moved that the vote should be reduced by
the amount in question.
After some conversation,
Lord C. PAGET said that the breakwater at Alderney
was carried out to the point marked D on the plan, and
the object in view was to afford shelter to small vessels
from easterly winds.
The house divided—
For the amendment l3
Against it 4l
Majority
The amendment was accordingly negatived, and the item
agreed to.
Mr. BELLEW objected to the amount of the vote of
£30,000 for Holyhead harbour of refuge.
Mr. LAING said that the object of this harbour of re-
fuge was to afford shelter to vessels of large burden. There
was some difference between the steam boat company and
the railway company interested in the harbour, and during
the recess the place would be visited by the Secretaries of
the Admiralty, in company with representatives of the two
companies.
The item was agreed te, as were £4Ol for harbour of
refuge for Portpatrick, and £7,226 for a harbour of refuge at
Kingston.
Several votes for expenses of the offices connected with
both Houses of Parliament were agreed to.
On the vote of £2,750 for the office of the Privy Seal,
Mr. AYRTON moved that the vote should be reduced
by £2,000 the salary of the Lord Privy Seal, an office
which a committee had recommended should be abolished.
Sir G. LEWIS said that the office of Postmaster-Gene-
ral and Lord Privy Seal were filled for the present by the
Duke of Argyle, who, however, did not draw both sala-
ries. According to the recommendation of the commmittee
the office of Signet hid been abolished, and a reduction was
made in the office of Privy Seal, but two clerks were kept,
in order, according to the forms of the constitution, to affix
the Privy Seal to patents before they received the stamp of
the Grand Seal. With regard to the Lord Privy Seal, the
object was to have a person of rank attached to the Cabinet
who should not have to discharge any active duties. He
strongly opposed the abolition of the office.
Lord FERMOY supported the amendment, and some
discussion ensued.
The house divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment
Against 59
Majority
The vote was th‘n agreed to.
On the vote of £5,796 for the civil commission,
Mr. COCHRANE strongly objected to the competitive
examination, on the ground that the questions were of an
unsuitable character, and illustrated his views by quoting
several of these questions. Amongst these was one which
a candidate for the civil service in India was requited to
answer, namely, as to his knowledge of the respiratory or-
gans of the spider. lie concluded by moving the reduction
of the vote by £6OO for salaries in connection with the
examiner's department.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended
the present system of examination, and said that the an-
swers to the questions were not a vital element to the suc-
cess of the candidate, being merely intended to test the
general intelligence of those applying for situations in the
public servic3. He adverted to the fact that the commis-
sion appointed by that house had decided, after careful
inquiry, that the objections to the system were unfounded,
and recommended its extension, as conclusive on the

subject.
After some further discussion the amendment was nega-
tived without a division, and the vote was agreed to.
On the vote of X 17,500, to defray the expenses of her
Majesty's Paymaster-General,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to have the office placed
on an intelligible footing, and that the Paymaster-General
should be made really the officer to pay the different public
services.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
that the Paymaster-General also discharged the duty of
President or Vice •President of the Board of Trade. Tho
Paymaster-General endowed, out of his income, the latter
office, which might be considered the working department,
and from which he did not derive any salary. He could
not hold out any hope of an alteration being made in regard
to the office of Paymaster-General.
£6,330 was voted for the expense of the Comptroller-
General's Office.
On the vote of £3,559 for the office of public works, some
discussion arose, which was abruptly terminated, it being
10 minutes to 4 o'clock.
WINE LICENSES.
In answer to Mr. E. JAMES,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
6,59 licenses for refreshment houses in London had been ap
plied for under the now act, but that number did not in-
clude Kensington or Hammersmith. Only 129 applications
had been made for wine licenses.
The sitting was suspended at four o'clock.
The house resumed at 6 o'clock.
NEW ZEALAND BILL.

Sir J. PAKINGTON gave notice that upon the motion
for the second reading of this bill ho should present a peti-
tion, and make an appeal to the noble lord that he would
not proceed with the bill at so late a period of the session.
(Hear.)
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES (IRELAND) BILL.
In reply to Mr. HENNESSY,
Mr. CARDWELL said that the inspectors of weights
and measures held their offices durante bone placito, and
such being the case, they would not be entitled to compen-
sation under the usual rules.
CONSOLIDATED FUND (t 10,000,000) BILL,
This bill was read a third time and passed.
RAGGED SCHOOLS.

On the motion for going into committee of supply on the
education estimates,
Sir J. PAKINGTON rose to move—" That the grants
annually made by Parliament for the promotion of educa-
tion ought to be expended with fair and just regard to the
requirements of the different classes of schools recognised by
the minutes of the committee of council, and that ragged
and industrial schools, which are alone adapted to meet the
wants of a considerable number of destitute and neglected
children, are therefore entitled to a larger amount of aid
than they at present receive." Although he reserved to
himself the right of taking the sense of the house on the
motion if he thought it desirable to do so, his object rather
was to make an earnest appeal to the Government for a mo-
dification of the rules under which grants were given to
ragged schools, which in his opinion did not receive that
assistance to which they were fairly entitled. He could
understand the committee of council saying, "Our object
is to accomplish a maximum of good with the money placed
at our disposal. This money we give under certain condi-
tions, and we cannot give it to those who do not comply
with these conditions." He could understand that argument,
but the committee of council cut it from under them, be-
cause they not only recognised ragged schools but had in
the existing minute defined what ragged schools were, and
even the conditions on which alone assistance could be given
to them. Now what he found fault with was that whilst
they recognised ragged schools as a branch of education they
did not give to them that extent of assistance to which in
fairness, in justice, and in policy they were entitled. The
primary object of the large grants they were about to vote
was that the benefits of education might be extended to
those who were not able to bear the expenses of educating
themselves. They were about to vote £lOO,OOO for the prd-.
motion of science and art. He believed that this was a legi-
timate application of the public money, but he should ob-
ject to this vote as long as the Government refused money
to those whom he held to be the most destitute class of per-
sons in the country. (Hear.) The great complaint of those
by whose zeal, exertions, and liberality these schools were
established was that the minute which had been passed in
1856 respecting these schools had been repealed, and
another of a less favourable character substituted for it.
The minute of 1856 made large and liberal concessions.
Allowance was made under it for half the rent of de
school, for a third of the cost of tools and raw materials;
grants were allowed for Woks, maps, and the preparation
of suitable schoolmasters ; a grant of half the salaries agreed
to be paid to the master and assistant masters, and a capi-