The Sun.
London, England, 1860-10-26 00:00:00

Halifax, and many gentlemen of influence in the
West Riding.

Lord Palmerston arrived precisely at three
o'clock, and was received by the mayor, the alder-
men, and town clerk. As the noble lord walked
up the apartment the company greete L him with
three rounds of cheering.
The noble lord having taken his place,
Sir J. RAMSDEN, as the leader of the deputation,
read the list of places and societies represented, and
the gentlemen of whom the deputation was com-
posed, observing that their number would be a suffi-
cient proof of the strong feeling existing in that
part of England on the subject of the bankruptcy
laws. He reminded his lordship that about a year
ago a deputation waited upon him in London, to
urge upon the Government the earnest desire of
the commercial bodies and towns represented, that
the subject of bankruptcy reform should be taken
up in the ensuing session,with a view to legislation
upon it. The assurance which the noble lord gave to
that deputation was fully redeemed by the intro-
duction of the bill of the Attorney-General, with
the leading features of which he (Sir John Rams-
den) believed he was authorised by the gentle-
men now present to express their approval. There
were of course details upon which there might be
be difference of opinion, but in. a bill of between
400 and 500 clauses that was impossible to avoid.
Upon these points of difference, however, he did
not propose to trouble his lordship, it being
thought more desirable to bring them under the
notice of the Attorney-General, by whom, no doubt,
they would receive due consideration. It might
possibly seem to be touching somewhat upon the
rights of hospitality to trouble his lordship on such
an occasion with so large a deputation, and that
they had even too keen an eye to business. (A
laugh.) But the subject was one which attracted
great attention in the West Riding, and they had
sought this interview principally with the view of
convincing his lordship of the extent and univer-
sality of that feeling in the manufacturing districts
of Yorkshire—not only of the West Riding, but of
the other ridings as well. Their present object was
to express an earnest hope that the subject would
again receive the attention of the Government, and
that a bill would be introduced as soon as possible
in the next session of Parliament. They were
quite aware of the difficulties that pressed upon the
Government during the present year, and the diffi-
culty they had of carrying the bill of the Attorney
General, encumbered as they were with other im-
portant business. He hoped that no such obstacles
would interpose in the coming session. They (the
deputation) remembered, on one occasion, when
there was a factious opposition to the Divorce Bill,
an intimation from the noble lord that it was the
determination of the Government to press that
measure through ; that announcement at once had
the result of putting an end to the opposition, and
bringing about the object desired. The deputation
ventured to hope that in the ensuing session the
Government would give this question of the state
of the bankruptcy law such early consideration as
would make it possible for some measure to pass
without the delay of another year, and, by at the
same time declaring their determination to press it
through, avoid those impediments which might
otherwise be interposed. In conclusion, he would
ask his lordship to hear such observations as
the gentlemen present might think it necessary to
offer on the subject; and first he would introduce
the deputation of the Town Council and Corpora-
tion of Leeds, whose address the Town Clerk would,
with his lordship's permission, now read.
Mr. SMITH, the town clerk, then read the follow-
ing memorial, which was afterwards handed to his
lordship :
" To the Right Hon. Lord Viscount Palmerston
—The memorial of the mayor, aldermen, and bur-
gesses of the borough of Leeds, in the county of
York, in council assembled, on Wednesday, 0ct.24,
1860—humbly showeth,
" That your memorialists have to express their
couviction of the present unsatisfactory state of the
laws relating to bankruptcy and insolvency, and of
the necessity there exists for some measure for the
amendment and consolidation of tho3e laws. That
your memorialists would also express their entire
concurrence with the general principles of the bill
introduced by her Majesty's Government in the
last session of Parliament, intituled ' A bill to
amend and consolidate the laws relating to bank-
ruptcy and insolvency in England. Your memo-
rialists therefore hope that her Majesty's Govern.
ment will, as soon as practicable, introduce the bill
formerly presented by her Majesty's Attorney-
General, or some other measure containing similar
provisions for carrying out the purposes herein
referred to."

Mr. Wat. KELSALL, the Mayor of Leeds; said he
would make no comment upon the memorial, which
spoke for itself, except to state that it was signed
by 64 members of the town council.
Mr. Alderman VICKERS presented a memorial to
the same effect from the town council of Sheffield.
Mr. LUPTON also read a similar memorial from
the Leeds Chamber of Commerce, pointing out the
unsatisfactory state of the existing bankruptcy and
insolvency law, and expressing an earnest hope that
the bill of the Attorney-General would be re-in-
troduced next session, and supported by all the
influence of the Cabinet. He added that in the
whole course of his business experience he never
recollected so much unanimity being shown among
the mercantile and commercial classes as upon this
question. (Hear, hear.)
Addresses, which were merely echoes of the above,
were presented from Sheffield by Mr. Jobson Smith,
president of the Chamber of Commerce; and from
Halifax by Mr. John Crossley, the latter gentle-
man mentioning as an illustration of the working
of the existing law, that in one bankruptcy ease, is
which £415 of assets was paid into court, the un-
fortunate creditors only received £22 or 21d in the
pound. (Laughter.) He trusted that the noble lord
would not allow another session of Parliament to
pass without dealing with the subject in a compre-
hensive manner. (Cheers.)
Further memorials were read by Mr. LNwooD,
from Hull, and by Mr. FOSTER, from Bradford.
Mr. W. BECKETT said he wished to put in a word
on behalf of the banking interest. (Hear.) It was,
however, only to say that the bankers fully con-
curred in all that had just been said, and that they
wished some satisfactory measure to be speedily
passed. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON said—l can assure you that I
myself individually, and all my colleagues in the
Government, feel the force of all those arguments
which you have now repeated to us, and which
have been put to us before. We are quite aware
that the present state of the law is exceedingly un-
satisfactory and works great injury frequently to
persons who are under the necessity of having re-
course to it, and I was in great hopes that we
should last session have been able to pass the bill
which the Attorney-General, with great labour and
with a great sacrifice of his professional emolu-
ments, had prepared. (Hear.) I don't like to state
the sum, but he assured me that the time he had
been obliged to devote to the preparation of that
bill had been considerably withdrawn from his pro-
fessional pursuits, and that he incurred a very large
sacrifice of professional emolument in the promo-
tion of the public interest. Well, when the bill was
brought in, I had sanguine hopes that we should
pass it into law ; but everybody knows that the last
session was a session of a peculiar character. Mat-
ters of great importance were brought before Par-
liament ; discussions, perhaps of unforeseen length,
ensaed upon them, and nobody could command the
I;me and opportunity when particular measures
should come on. The most important measures were
sometimes hustled back to a much later period than
we could have wished, and it did so happen that we
were unable to carry that bill through. At one
time I was so strongly impressed with the belief that
we could carry it that I hazarded the declaration of
an intention similar to that which Sir John Rams-
den has mentioned as having been successful in the
case of the Divorce Bill, viz., that if the house were
to sit until September I would go on with the mea-
sure. But human resolves are not always realised
by events--(a laugh)—and when it came to the
time when that bill could be gone on with we found
1 ourselves__ with a bill of, I think, upwards of 540 or
°l3 Clauses, with very strong objections as to what
was imagined to be the effect of 'many of them by a
large portion of the house, with the certainty, there-
fore, of a very long discussion. And the time at that
period of the session did t
. allow the prospect of
carrying it through in a manner satisfactory to the
country and the parties concerned. And therefore,
with the greatest reluctance,
carrying the bill through last the Attorney-General
aad myself were obliged to give up all hopes of
fe.session. I can assure
you, gentlemen, that o
ur bring in a bill at an early period
and intention is to
pe
riod next session.
(Cheers.) I should hope that,
although the hill is
long, and involves a great many details,
esyhianlgl
so
have time, and opportunity, and
means
es of
rruhaa are v
it as it is, or with such modifications as
on discussion
and examination may be found necessary.
ycu
all aware of the points on which objections
been raised. It was imagined—l am ashamed to
say- that I have not read the bill through. I have
taken its general character from the Attorneys
General, and have gone through the leading prin-
ciples. There was, as you are aware, great appre-
hension as to the bearing of the measure on non-
traders. (Hear, hear.) It was thought that the very

stringent enactments bearing on traders, and appli-
cable to them, but not to the circumstances and
habits of non-traders, might work great injustice
and injury to the latter. The Attorney-General
said he had considered all that, and he w.e. s
quite prepared, it the clauses he proposed aid
not sufficiently provide against these objections,
he should be able so to modify them in the
progress
of the bill as to attain the desired
result. But we never came so far as to touch
upon that disputed point. I hope, indeed I am
confident, that, with his ability, and the assist-
ance we should get from all parties in the house,
we may be able to carry a bill sufficient and satis-
factory to all parties. (Hear, hear.) It really is a
bill which does not involve party considerations.
(Cheers.) It is not a question between one class of
politicians and another—it is a question in which
all the commerical and industrial portions of the
community have a common interest—and I feel
confident that in passing such a bill we should have
the assistance of men of all sides of the house and
of all political parties, earnestly, sincerely, and
honestly endeavouring to shape it in such form as
will satisfy the just expectations of the commercial
interests, without at all working any injustice or
injury to those different classes of society. I shall
be armed next session with the report of what has
passed on this occasion, and which I am sure will
have its due weight not only with the Government,
but I am persuaded equally so with members of
the House of Commons generally. And I hope
that those towns—which, as has been stated, have
taken so great an interest in the question—will in-
spire their members with that zeal—(a laugh)—
which, I am proud to say, members for great com-
munities are very seldom found wanting in—and
that they, on their part, will be in a position to
congratulate themselves, at the end of the' session,
upon having been instrumental in carrying a mea-
sure of such great importance to the commercial
interests of the country. (Cheers.)
Sir J. RAMSDEN tendered to the noble lord the
thanks of the several deputations for the kindness
with which he had listened to their statements,
and expressed their satisfaction at the assurance
the noble lord had given as to the intentions of the
Government. The constituencies represented he
was assured would tender their most cordial sup-
port to the Government in their endeavours to pass
the measure.

Lord PALMERSTON said a few words indicating
his satisfaction at meeting the deputation, and re-
ceiving personally the views of gentlemen so prac-
tically acquainted with commercial questions.
After a few words from Sir J. Crossley, intimat-
ing that a committee had been appointed that morn-
ing to draw up a statement of the points of differ-
ence from the Government Bill, which would be
communicated to the Attorney-General,
The deputation withdrew.

In the evening the noble viscount presided at the
annual soiree of the Leeds Mechanics' Institution
and Literary Society. The soiree was held in the
Town-hall, which was crowded in every part, about
two thousand persons being present. The tickets of
admission ranged in price from 10s. 6d. to 2s. 6d.
each. The society, in behalf of which the soiree
was held, are making efforts to procure funds for
the erection of a new building, and it is probable
that it will realise from £2OO to £250 from the sale
of tickets amongst the distinguished persons pre-
sent. Besides the noble lord, were Lady Palmer-
ston, the Countess of Essex, the Hon. Earl Fitz-
william, and Countess Fitzwilliam, Marquis de
Fontenello ; Hon. W. Cowper, First Commissioner
of Public Works; the Hon. Lord Wensleydale, Sir
I. P. Kay Shuttleworth, Sir J. Emmerson Tennent,
Sir J. W. Ramsden, M.P., Mrs. Ramsden, Sir P.
Fairbairn, J. G. Marshall, Esq., F. Crossley, Esq.,
M.P., R. M. Milnes, Esq., M.P., E. Baines, Esq.,
M.P., G. S. Beecroft, Esq., M.P., E. Childers, Esq.,
M.P., T. Salt, Esq., M.P., Bcc.
Mr. W. BECKETT, of Kirkstall Grange, intro-
duced the noble lord to the assembly amidst en-
thusiastic cheers.

Lord PALMERSTON rose to address the meeting
amidst loud applause. Silence having been ob-
tained, the noble lord proceeded to deliver a very
felicitous speech, which was frequently interrupted
by warm applause. He commenced by expressing
the pride and pleasure which he felt at having been
allowed to preside at a meeting of so numerous and
distinguished attendance in one of the first towns
of this great empire, and for purposes so honou'r-
able to the town, and which he had no doubt would
be attended with success, and would confer great
and lasting benefits on the town. (Applause.)
After passing a warm eulogium on Dr. Birkbeck
and Lord Brougham, as the founders of mechanics'
institutes, and adverting to the efforts of the
latter (Brougham) for the abolition, first of
the slave trade, and for the promotion of civil
and religious liberty all over the world, he said
that it had, fallen to the lot of the noble lord
• (Brougham) to do more than other men to promote
the diffusion of education amongst his fellow-coun-
trymen. He had passed a life in acquiring—not
in acquiring only, but also in diffusing—knowledge
and thereby conferring great benefits on others.
(Cheers.) There was one important difference be-
tween the present time and the past. In the past
ages there have been many men eminent for know-
ledge and for their discoveries in science and philo-
sophy ; but then the greatness of the nation was
obscured by comparative ignorance, and long after
the days of Newton and Bacon the absurd notions
of astrology and witchcraft prevailed. Now know-
ledge was spread greatly throughout every class of
society, and not only has individual happiness been
much increased but the greatness and welfare of the
nation have been greatly augmented. (Hear, hear.)
One of the most useful of the means for spreading
this knowledge was mechanics' institutes. (Ap-
plause.) Yet some persons had objected to these
institutions chiefly on the ground that the men for
whom they wore designed to benefit could only ob-
tain from them a superficial knowledge, and the
trite aphorism came into play—a little knowledge
is a dangerous thing—for a little knowledge was a
bad thing, that was, that it was a bad thing that a
man had only a little learning; but what was still
worse than having a little learning was having no
learning at all. (Hear, hear.) His lordship pro-
ceeded to speak of the value of mechanics' institu-
tions,: and gave some hints how such associations
might be made most useful to their members. He
spoke of the proper place which works of the ima-
gination ought to occupy, of the importance of a
knowledge of chemistry, and of the importance of
an acquaintance with the fundamental principles
of science as applicable to the ordinary avocations cf
life. It was an interesting study, said his lordship, to
witness the diversityand infinite variety of the animal
creation, beginning with man and descending to
animals which required the power of the micro-
scope to render them visible to man. The contem-
plation of these organic beings, said his lordship,
must fill the mind with admiration of the creation,
of the power, of skill, and wisdom which had
directed the great Creator from whom they owed
their origin. (Cheers.) The contemplation if the
descending scale, no doubt, tended to make man
fancy that he was lord of the creation, but he hoped
that the institution would also direct the mind to
the upward scale. He trusted that they would not
only tread the elementary principles of geology,
but also the general outlines of the planetary
system revolving round the sun. They would then
see what a comparatively insignificant portion of
that planetary system was this earth, which the
ancients used to think almost the whole of the
created universe, which would abate those feelings
of pride which perhaps the contemplation of the
descending scale might have been calculated to in-
spire. (Applause.) There was no reason why the
so
off
a clearworking classes should not learn the general out-
lines of a still further science, and be taught the
the
innumerable organisationstrligbibright
i goni
tgt
spotshh night
wuniverse,eNrvehnicoi
peaamnipud. learnepxr thee principles
skyle ntih at
the
t
simply ornaments to the Heavens, but that they
consisted of millions of suns, many of them far
larger than this earth, and each surrounded by a
planetary system like our own.
(Hear.) While
on the other hand these contemplations, • by enlarg-
ing the human mind, must tend to abate the pride
and vanity of prosperity, so on the other hand they
must tend to calm and console those • who might be
labouring under adversity, by letting them see
that the affairs of this world formed but a minute
part of the general dispensation of the
Almighty,
and that all those great arrangements, h w atever
might be their partial and temporary effect, were
destined in the main for ultimate and permanent
good. (Cheers.) The noble lord dwelt upon the
advantages of lectures in promoting instruction
—lectures led men easily and usefully to results
which had been acquired by deep study ; but low,
labour was necessary, in order that those
who attended lectures might derive the full
value which they were intended to impart.
To effect this object a valuable system of
voluntary competitive examinations had recently
been established in connection with mechanics'
institutions, (Applause.) The three sources of
knowledge—the lecture given in the general way,
the subsequent study carried on by the individual,
and the test put to them by the examiner—was a
complete system of instruction, which, if carried
out, as he had no doubt it would be, not only in
Leeds, but in other parts of the country, must tend
rapidly to improve the intellectual condition of the
population of the united empire, and, by improving
their intellectual condition, add to their happiness,
and promote the greatness and prosperity of the
empire to which they on g. be 1 (Cheers.) After cor-
dially Wishing success to the scheme for erecting a
new building, forth
his lordship e mechanics' institution in Leeds,
sat down amidst loud
cheering,
I was subsequently announced that the noble