The Sun.
London, England, 1860-07-25 00:00:00

part of persons in obtaining a contract that the house hesi-

sated as to whether it should or should not be carried into ef-

feet, the mere question of the providence or improvidence of
the contract itself being scarcely ever brought under the con-
sideration of Parliament with any practical result. Now, the
object with which the committee to which he had already re-
ferred had been appointed was to provide a remedy for that.

state of things, and two suggestions had been made on the
subject, the one being that before any contract was entered
into a vote for the proposed service should be laid before the

house, and, that vote having been agreed to, the Govern •
ment should then be at liberty to conclude the contract. To
that suggestion, however, arose the objections, that its adop-
tion would lead to two distinct discussions, and that by fix-
ing by anticipation the sum to be voted for the performance

of the contemplated service the advantage of that com-
petition by which the real market price of the work to be
done might be ascertained would be lost. The committee
had under those circumstances arrived at the conclusion

that the best course to adopt was to place on the shoulders
of the Government the full responsibility of making a con-
tract, accompanied by the condition that the terms of that

should forthwith, if Parliament happened to be sitting, be
laid on the table of the house. The result of acting on that

recommendation, he might add, would be, that an efficient
control over the expenditure'of the public money in those
cases would be established, for no Government would be
disposed to incur the unpopularity to which the immediate
exposure consequent upon the conclusion of a careless or
improvident contract must, under these circumstances, ine-
vitably lead. In dealing with the subject he did not wish to

allude to any special contract, but he might nevertheless
be permitted to glance for a moment at the case of the Cu-
nard contract in support of the views he entertained. That

contract, which was, ho believed, carried out in the most
admirable and successful manner, had been renewed in
1858, so that instead of expiring in 1862, as it would have
done if it had been allowed to run its regular course, it
would not come to an end until 1867. Now, without enter-
ing into the question as to the expediency of renewing the
contract four years before its term would have run out, he
should contend that there were important circumstances
overlooked in the matter, which of the contracts had in the
way which he proposed been laid en the table of the house
must have been taken into consideration. There was, for
instance, the correspondence with Canada with reference
to the postal question, in the course of which correspondence
the. Government of Canada represented to our own that an
injury was being done to them by the operation of the con-
tract, the, consequence being that an understanding was
arrived at that matters should remain on the footing on
which they stood at the time, until the Cunard con-
trast had expired, the Government of Canada look-
ing upon that as a pledge that their complaints
should be considered before the contract was re-
newed. Then, again, when the question of the Galway
contract was first started, it was a matter well worthy of
deliberation whether, in the event of its being concluded, a
part of the mails transmitted by the Cunard line might not
be transferred for conveyance by the Galway line at the
expiration of the contract of the former in 1862, and a por-
tion of the expense of the Galway service be thus met. Tt e
possibility of effecting such an arrangement, had, however,
become completely out of the question when the Cunard
contract had been renewed. In the case of the Red Sea
and Indian telegraph the agreement had been confirmed by
a private bill; but the agreement itself was not recited
either in the bill or in the schedule, and was not added till
it reached the House of Lords; yet this was a contract in-
volving a charge of 41 per cent on a capital of £600,000
for a period of 50 years. The Acts of Parliament passed
in the case of the Atlantic Telegraph Company contained
clauses enabling the Government to enter into agreements
unfettered by any limitation whatever ; and, being private
bills, these unusual powers passed without attracting the
attention of the house. The propositions recommended by
the committee, which were embodied in the resolutions
that he had now the honour to submit to the house, were
calculated to secure greater care and providence in taking
these large contracts, which ought not to be left to the dis-
cretion of the Executive Government without that control
which the constitution required that Parliament should
exercise. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member concluded by
moving the following resolution :—" That in all contracts
extending over a period of years, and creating a public
charge, actual or prospective, entered into by the Govern-.
ment for the conveyance of mails by sea, or for the pur-
pose of telegraphic communication beyond sea, there shall
be inserted the condition that the contract shall not be
binding until it has lain upon the table of the House of
Commons for one month without disapproval, unless, pre-
vious to the lapse of that period, it has been approved by
a resolution of the house. That every such contract when
executed E hall forthwith, if Parliament be then sitting, or,
if Parliament be not then sitting, within fourteen days
after it assembles, be laid upon the table of the house,
accompanied by a minute of the Lords of the Treasury set-
ting forth the grounds on which they have proceeded in au-
thorising it. That in cases where any such contract requires
to be confirmed by act of Parliament the bill for that pur-
pose shall not be introduced and dealt with as a.private bill;
and that power tothe Government to enter into agreements
,by which obligation at the public charge shall be under-
taken shall not be given in any private act."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not
detain the house more than a few moments, after the clear
and dispassionate statement of his hon. friend. But it was
his agreeable duty to render, on the part of her Majesty's
Government, their warm acknowledgment to the committee
in general, and in particular to his hon. friend—(cheers)—
who during their important• and laborious sittings had ful-
filled the difficult and critical duties of chairman in a manner
worthy of his high character. (Hear, hear.) The question
of the packet and telegraphic contracts was one in which
circumstances rendered it eminently desirable that the
House of Commons by an organ of its own should give par-
ticular attention to the system on which these contracts
were concluded. It was not necessary to refer to any par-
ticular case, nor was he speaking the sentiments exclusively
of either side of the house when he declared that an excess
of power had been exercised by the Executive Government,
which was felt on all hands to require limitation. The com-
mittee in dealing with the inquiry had shown very great
judgment and discretion, and the resolutions proposed were
well calculated to prevent a repetition of former errors on
the part of any Government, at the same time that they
avoided a difficulty quite as serious and involving perhaps
an equal amount of danger—nameli,, that which would be
caused by the interference of the House of Commons in
duties for which they were not qualified. Looking at the
resolutions with a critical eye, as the house was bound to
do in laying down rules for its future guidance, he thought
the committee had well steered their course between op-
posing dangers. By the word " contracts" in the first re-
solution they could not have meant to confine themselves
to the popular acceptation of the term, but must have in-
tended to include all such renewals, modifications, and
alterations of conditions as substantially amounted to a
new contract—(hear)—and it was well that this point should
be clearly understood by the public. The resolution de-
claring that the sanction of Parliament should not be
given to contracts by a private act he regarded as a wise one.
The house had, doubtless, in its recollection the case of the
Red Sea contract, which passed the House of Commons
without attention being drawn to the fact that it em-
powered the Government largely to pledge the public.;
credit to undertakings by private parties. The bill was
read a third time in the House of Lords, and it was not till
it came down again to the Commons that the right hon.
baronet the member for Carlisle called attention to its very
extensive provisions. The general opinion, however, was
that the matter had then proceeded too far, and that it
would then be an undue exercise of discretion to alter the
terms of the agreement, although there was no doubt that
had the house been aware of the circumstances when they
originally entertained the contract they would have taken
time to consider the subject. The fact.that it was only by
the accident of an amendment having been introduced in
the Lords that the measure came to be narrowly examined
showed how unsatisfactory and insufficient a private bill
was for the purpose, and how desirable it was that such
regulations as were laid down in those resolutions should
be adopted. Inasmuch as the case to be dealt with was
only a contract preliminary to a vote of money, and the
making of such a contract was a matter entirely belonging
to the Executive Government, his hon. friend and the
committee had exercised a very wise discretion in seeking
to limit the functions of the house to checking any abuse on
the part of the Government, and not to directing by a posi-
tive resolution that any particular contract should be
entered into. These resolutions were, he thought, well
adapted for their purpose, and he again thanked his hon.
friend and the committee for the valuable results of their

labours.
Mr. ROEBUCK was anxious that the resolutions should
not be adopted by the house without one word of warning.
It seemed to him that the resolutions mixed up two dis-
tinct offices belonging to two distinct authorities. The
Government had an administrative power, for the due exer •
vise of which it was responsible ; but the moment the House
of Commons was called upon broadly and distinctly to give
its sanction to an act of the Government a great portion of
the responsibility of the Executive was taken away. Sup-
pose a contract wore entered into by the Government and
laid upon the table for a month. After that interval the
house would have approved the contract. It might, indeed,
be said that the house was not asked to give its direct ap-
proval ; but then, by keeping back its disapproval it would
practically give its approval. The house could not after-
wards turn round on the Executive and say, "You have
entered into an improvident contract." The Executive
might answer, " You have taken from us our responsibility.
The contract lay on the table for a month, and you never
found fault with it. All .cve have to do is to make the con-
tracta ppro avnd a
wesu arebmit
noitltoonygoeur
e;
nwewheenrebyloeutohr ae given it your
it."
(Hear, hear.)
Nothing that had been said in that debate had caused him
annoyance or displeasure. He only wished humbly to
point out to the house the danger of the course they were
about to take. They might depend on it, if they mixed up
two distinct daises of duties, one of which belonged to the
Administration and the other to the House of Commons,
they would relieve the Executive of its responsibility, and
thereby introduce serious mischief. (Hear, hear.)
Sir G. C. LEWIS did not think the circumstance of oae
of these contracts having been laid on the table would
deprive the Executive Government of their motives for
caution. In a vast number of cases it would be impossible to
submit the ccutracta made by the Executive to Parliament.

Nobody proposed, for example, that when the Admiralty
bought timber, coal, or other stores for the navy, they should
come down and ask the house by resolution to authorise
them to enter into a contract. There was another set of
contracts, fortunately of not very frequent occurrence,
namely, contracts for public loans, with respect to which it '
was absolutely necessary to obtain the express sanction of
that house. Yet he believed he would be borne out when
he said that there was no class of contracts which were
entered into with greater care on the part of the Govern-
ment, with greater publicity, or a greater desire evinced by
the Executive to secure the most favourable terms possible
for the public, than contracts for loans. (Hear, h ear.) The
peculiarity of the contracts now under consideration was
that they were prospective—namely, for the conveyance of
the mails for a considerable term of years, and he much
questioned whether the Executive would not exceed its
powers if it entered into such a contract without the express
sanction of Parliament. Now, it was with regard to the
class of contracts intermediate between the ordinary con-
tracts to which he had referred and contracts for loans that
the machinery at present proposed was to be introduced.
They were not contracts merely for the delivery of a specific
quantity of goods, but contracts which pledged the national
faith to the payment of large sums of money for services to
be performed for a term of years. There was no reason to
believe that the publicity and the check of Parliamentary
control which these resolutions suggested should in flay
way diminish the caution of the Government, but, on the
contrary, they appeared to him calculated to render the
Executive still more circumspect in its proceedings. (Hear.)
Mr. HOPE recommended that means should, be taken
to guard against so important a matter as the Indian tele-
graph being again dealt with in a private Act of Parlia-
ment.

After a few words from Mr. DUNLOP in reply, the reso-
lutions were then agreed to.
PUBLIC MONEYS.
On the motion of Sir S. NORTHCOTE, a copy was ordered
of the Treasury minute of the 23d day of December, 1858,
on the subject of public moneys.
SENIOR MEMBER .OF COUNCIL (INDIA).
On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON (in the absence of
Sir C. Wood), leave was given to bring in a bill to remove
doubts as to the authority of the Senior Member of Council'
of the Governor-General of India, in the absence of the
President. '
SUPERANNUATION ACT (1859) AMENDMENT. •
t.ord PALMERSTON (again in place of Sir C. Wood)
moved for leave to bring in a bill to extend in certain cases
the provisions of the Superannuation Act, 1859.
Mr. ROEBUCK asked for some explanation of these
Indian Bills. •
Mr. E. JAMES thought the Secretary of State for India
ought to be in his place to explain to the house what the
objects were of these bills, which belonged to his depart-
ment. (Hear.)
Mr. HORSMAN asked how it was that the introduction
of these bills had been delayed till the last week of July.
This session kad been unusually protracted, and but the
other night the noble lord at the head of the Government
complained that a certain section .of the house seemed to
think that it was to be eternal. After massacreing their
" innocents," the Government a few nights ago introduced
two fresh bills relating to India ; bra, fortunately, it being
very abundantly manifest that there would be a good deal
of opposition to them, they very soon withdrew them. To-
night,.however, there were three new billi to be introduced,
and he was informed that there was yet one other intended
to be introduced, more important than all, of which no no-
tice yet had been given. This made six bills relating to India
introduced in the month of July. It certainly would but
have been respectful and decorous to the house had the
Secretary for India been in his place to explain these bills.
(Hear, hear.) [Sir C. Wood• here made his appearance in
his usual seat on the Treasury bench.] He congratulated,
the house on the return of the right hon. gentleman—
(laughter)—and was glad to find that he was not dining at
the Travellers' Club, as he understood was the case last
Thursday, when his absence was complained of. (Oh, oh!)
Sir C. WOOD—I have to apologise to the house for not
being in my place. I was not far from it, however. I was in
the library discussing an Indian question with a supporter
of the right hon. gentleman; but I should certainly have
been here had I been aware that these bills were under dis-
cussion. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman gave
me notice the other evening that he intended to put a ques-
tion to me in reference to what he called my " mysterious"
disappearance on Thursday last, and, as he has referred to
the subject to-night, I will explain how that happened. I
was in my place when the house met on Thursday, and I
continued in it until the house went into committee on the
Bankruptcy Bill. I then went into the lobby and had• a
long conversation with the hon. member for Perth. Some
hon. gentleman came to me and said that Sir Richard
Airey was waiting at the door to see me. I think it was
the member for Carnarvonshire. I went• to the door, and
found Sir •Richard Airey, who was waiting 'to see me on
some military business. I walked with him along the
lobby towards the House of Lords, along St. Stephen's-hall
and into Westminster-hall. There was nothing myste-
rious ;" a score of members must have seen us. (Hear.)
We walked about Westminster-hall, and after that I did go
and get some dinner, having been absent from home all
day. There was no mystery about it. I did not go out at
the back door or the window—a crowd of members saw me
go. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman sent me a note to
tell me that he meant to ask a question on the subject, and
I was here at a quarter past four o'clock to answer him,
but he was not here to put it. (Hear.) I was perfectly
ready to meet him, as I always shall be. As to this bill, its
simple object is to provide that in cases where civil servants
have been transferred from the India-office to another
office, say the. Admiralty or 'War-office, or from another
office to the India-office, their superannuation allowance
shall be charged on the Indian and home revenue, some'
thing in proportion to the length of time they have served
in each department.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE—I suppose it will operate both
ways ?
Sir C. WOOD—Certainly.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
ADMIRALTY JURISDICTION.

Sir C. WOOD then moved for leave to introduce a bIU
to extend certain provisions for Admiralty jurisdiction in
the colonies of her Majesty's territories in India.
Mr. HORSMAN reiterated his complaint as to the late
period at which these bills were brought in, and asked for
some explanation of it. He also Wished to know whether
it was not intended to bring in yet another bill relating to
India.

Sir C. WOOD said that such small progress had been
made with the bills introduced early in the session that he
had thought it more advisable to delay these bills until some
clearance was made of the list.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
The Votes at Elections Bill was read a second time.
The Local Government Supplemental (No. 2) Bill passed
through committee.
The Turnpike Acts Continuance Bill was read a third time
and passed.
The Lords' amendments to the Local Boards of Health,
ke., Bill were agreed to.
MILITIA BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill, and after 6
clause had been' added, it was reported. "
METROPOLIS LOCAL MANAGEMENT ACT
AMENDMENT (No. 2) BILL.
On the motion for the resumption of the adjourned de'
bate on the third reading of this bill, on the question that
the bill be "now read,"
The SPEAKER put the question, and
Sir J. SHELLEY rose to address the house, but wag
called to order, not having risen in time.
The house divided--
For the third reading 23
Against it
Majority..
The bill was consequently lost.
SUPPLY.
The Report on Supply was brought up and agreed to.
MAYNOOTH COLLEGE BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
SHERIFF COURT HOUSES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill, as amended, was considered and agreed to.
FREIGHT BILL.
CLEARANCE INWARDS AND LIEN FOR
This bill, as amended, was considered and agreed to.
WEIGHTS AND MEASURES (IRELAND) BILL*
This bill was read a third time and passed.
CORONERS (No. 3) BILL.
This bill, as amended, was considered and agreed to.
RIFLE VOLUNTEER CORPS BILL.
On the order of the day for going into committee on WO
bill,
Mr. HENLEY objected to going into committee at that
quarter to three o'clock).
bfSetEheLentWmeroYtrinlinnesgdai(d that was the last day that the bill
bay the house, if it was to be passed
Won. If any delay took place, he would not beer
hourteho could
ildrs of
the responsibility.
Mr. S. HERBERT suggested that it would be better to
postpone the bill till to-morrow (this day).
Mr. SELWYN agreed to this suggestion, and the order
was accordingly postponed.
POLICE AND TOWNS IMPROVEMENT (SCOT.
LAND) ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATES BILL.
This bill was read a third time and passed.
SALE OF GAS ACT AMENDMENT (No. 3) BILL*
On the order for going into committee on this bill,
Mr. CRAWFORD moved that the debate be adjourned'
The house divided,—
For the adjournment .. 28
Against it
Majority
L,
Mr. SHERIDAN, however, considering the lateness
the hour, postponed the farther progress of the bill till tine
day.

The Gas (Metropolis) Bill passed through committee.
The house then adjourned at three o'clock.

LONDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG,
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Offlpe, No• 1121
Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, In the county 03
Middlesex, Wednesd4y, Ably 26, 1860•