The Sun.
London, England, 1869-07-21 00:00:00

COMMITTEES.

The Charity Commissioners Bill, the Special Bails, and
the Assessed Rates Bill passed through committee.
SECOND READINGS.

The Endowed Hospitals Bill, the Seamen's Clothing
Bill, and the Fines and Fees Collection Bill were severally
read a third time.

IRISH CHURCH BILL.

On the order of the day being read for the considera-
tion of the Commons' amendments to the Lords' amend-
ments, and the Commons reasons for disagreeing to the
Lords' amendments.
Earl GRANVILLE moved to agree to the Commons'
amendments made to the Lords' amendments, and also
that the Lords do not insist on the amendments to which
the Commons have disagreed. Ire said about five weeks
since he advised their lordships to give their assent to the
measure, and at that time no organised scheme in opposi-
tion to that courso was known to be in existence,-but tiuco
that time such an organization had become known, and a
degree of bitterness had been introduced into the debate
towards the close, that was wry much to ba re-
gretted, although he was bound to say that
the noble and learned lord (Cain's) had spoken

with a degree of moderation that was worthy of so dis-
tinguished a member of their lurdships' house. The

result of the deliberations in their lordships'
house had been, that a large, number of amendments,
some of them good, some bad, and some indifferent,

but the effect of those amendmonts were so to alter the
provisions of the bill that the House of Commons had
altgether refused to accept them eNcopt in a very limited
degree. He thought it a most remarkable thing that not-
withstanding the altered aspect of the bill not one word
discorteous to their lordships' house was to be heard in
another place, and instead of, as had been said of their
amendments having been superciliously and contume-
lously rejected by the advice of her Majesty's Government,
they had been considered in the most attentive and re-
spectful manner. The noble earl then referred to the
alterations that bad been made by their lordships in
the money part of the bill, which he said the Com-

mons bad objected to, and although those alterations

had not received the consent of the House of Commons
yet their amencisnente, to the extent of aug-
menting the suns to be given to curates and others
to the extent of £BlO,OOO, had been agreed to, so he did

not think that that fact in any way corroborated

the statement that their amendments had been coutume-
lously rejected. With respect to concurrent endowments
the House of Commons supported the objections of her
Majesty's Government on the ground that it was utterly
impossible to give its assent to such a proposition, and
that position was strengthened by the fact that there had
been no great demand on the part of the country for such
a'proposition, and to have assented to such a proposition
would have been, on the part of the Government, a viola-
tion of the promises made to their constitutencies. The
noble earl then moved that the Commons' amendments to
those their lordships had made in the preamble be agreed
to because the greatest amount of evil could only re-
sult from the keeping of millions of money dangling
without a set purpose to which it was to to
devoted. He thought the house would hesitate before it
said the proposal for concurrent endowment was
in accordance with the national will, and therefore ho
asked their lordships to support him in the proposal
he had made.

Lord CAIRNS defended the course that had been taken
with respect to the bill. The bill, on its first introduc-
tion, was held by a majority of their lordships not to be in
consonance with the wishes of the people, and they had come
to the conclusion not to read it a second time, but as it
had been said by the Government that the bill was
open to amendments, their lordships at once took the
course of accordingly making those amendment•,
and the bill so amended went down to the
other house, a message had_been received by their lord-
ships relative to those amendments—(hear, hear)—
and that was all they were supposed to know. But
he could not say how strongly he wished to
mark his disapproval of certain observations made by
the Prime Minister that their lordships in acting as they
had done must necessarily be ignorant of the feeling
of the country. The noble lord had informed their
lordships of the number of amendments that had been
made to the bill, but there was one thing that admitted of
no dispute, and that was that some of their lordships'
alterations were really imperative in order that the bill
might be framed in good English. (Laughter.) As to the
Ulster glebes, he had always been in favour of maintain-
ing them, though ho did not think they were of such
exaggerated importance, because the money amount was
not so large as had been represented. He, however,
thought that the amendment of the right rev. prelate was
one which their lordships ought to give their adhesion and
support.
Earl GREY considered that as far as the claims of the
bill were considered the words of the preamble were im-
material, and they certainly could not bind future Parlia-
ments. If they were unable to pass the bill and bring the
whole question to a happy conclusion this session, the
fault would rest with the Government, and with the Go-
vernment alone.

Earl RUSSELL w.►s in favour of the disestablishment
of the Irish Church and of its disendowment subject to
existing rights.

The Dnke of ARGYLL denied indignantly the allega-
tions of Earl Grey that the Government desired to pro-
voke a collision between the two houses of Parliament.

The Marquis of S AMSBURY said he regretted very
much the effort made by the Government and their sup-
porters to prefer a charge of some sort of conspiracy, on
the part of noble lords on that side of the house, to get a
vote on the question of concurrent endowment. Let no
one talk to him about the verdict of the country. It was
the Prime Minister who had resolved that their lordships'
arrangement would not be accepted if it opposed the ver-
dict of the House of Commons. But it was not the verdict
of the House of Commons, but the arrogant will of one
man. (Opposition cheers.)
The house divided, when the numbers were—
For the Loris' amendment
Against it
Majority —7B
Their lordships, therefore, insisted upon retaining their
amendment to the preamble.

1 arl GRANVILLE said that he could not take on him-
self the responsibility of proceeding with the bill without
communicating with his colleagues. He would, therefore,
at once move that the debate be adjourned, which was

agreed to.

The house adjourned at twenty -five minutes past eleven
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—LAST EVENING.
THE IRISH CHUHOII BILL.
The LORD 31Avor. of DUBLIN presented a petition from
the corportion of Dublin praying the house to support her
Majesty's Government in their endeavour to pass this bill.
SCHOOL OF MUSIC.
Sir J. PAKINGTON presented a petition from the
Society of Arts, praying for the foundation of a public
school for the teaching of music.
FEMALE SUFFRAGE.
Sir C. DILKE presented a petition signed by 10,713
women, praying for the extension of the elective franchise
to women.