The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-16 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 16, 1t.60.

papers on the table, that the Government had very much
neglected their duty in not urging upon the French Go-
vernment the necessity of giving up those differential duties
upon British shipping. The steam shipping of this coun-
try could no doubt compete with all the world, but the other
shipping was in a state of greater depression than it had
been for many years. The shipowners therefore complained
that their interests had been overlooked, while American
ships entering French ports paid a much smaller duty than
British shipping to the extent of three francs per kilo-
gramme ; and in many cases they paid no duty whatever,
and to that extent they would give a great advantage to our
great competitors, the American shipowners. That was a
point to which sufficient importance had not been attached.
Lord WENSLEYDALE made some remarks with
respect to the 11th article, which were inaudible in the
gallery, but was understood to differ from the Lord Chan.
cellor.
Lord CRANWORTH said he felt that he would not Joe
doing his duty if he did not say that, in his opinion, his
noble and learned friend on the woolsack was quite right in
the view he had taken of this matter.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE said that, under any cir-
cumstances, he should feel great difficulty in rising to take 1
part in a debate of such duration, but he felt still more the
difficulty when he had to fellow the speech of the noble earl
(Lord Derby), and also
,the speach of his noble friend (Earl
Grey), who had spoken with more than his usual ability
and force. But he felt it to be his duty, however difficult,
to answer the objections which had been urged withrespect
to the latter part of the !speech of the noble earl opposite.
He would say that while he did not admite the political sig-
nificance of the treaty in the sense of the noble earl, he fully
admitted its political importance and bearing. He had to
learn that they were not to bind the relations between the
two countries still closer, unless there were special reasons
to the contrary. He would remind their lordships that this
treaty was negotiated at a time when the question of the
annexation of Savoy had not been raised. He next came
to a much graver charge, but let him first state that it was
not the fact that the Government were in possession of the
intentions of the Emperor three months before they made
representations on the subject. As soon as the intention of
the Emperor assumed a tangible form they made represen-
tations to European Powers on the subject; and whatever
might be their course on the treaty it would not in the
slightest degree influence their action on the question of
SaN ay. It was by no means an unusual course to propose
a joint address of both Houses of Parliament to her
Majesty, and Mr. Pitt's precedent • was followed on a
similar occasion and for the same purpose, namely,
of affording an opportunity of fully discussing the
subject. It was said that the treaty was a bargain,
but it was not a bargain in the sons intended, although
it was a bargain in the sense of the interchange
of gifts. The treaty was useful, if not necessary, in assisting
France to trace her steps in the course they had been so long
treading. They had taught France her protective and pro-
hibitive system, and the result had been the disappearance
of various articles of French produce from our markets.
Those articles were exported to Spain and other countries
where trade flourished, while it languished here. We should,
by our present course, get back our old trade. From 1830,
every Government had endeavoured to improve their com-
mercial relations with France. The late Government had
exerted themselves on this subject, and they wished for a
treaty that would embrace the whole course of commercial
transactions—much, in fact, like the treaty just concluded.
, (Hear.) The wine duties had been touched upon. After Mr.
Pitt's treaty a large consumption of wine took place, and
now a much larger and more rapid consumption was antici-
pated. If malt suffered by the introduction of wine it would
be no fiscal misfortune at all, however it might be lamented
on other grounds. Then came the question of coal. He had
some official returns on that subject, and it appeared that
there was such a supply of that important commodity that
it was hardly worth while to calculate how long it would
last. They had not that monopoly in coal which would jus-
tify them in putting on a large export duty. There was coal
in Belgium and in other countries ; an export duty would
materially affect the trade. The noble baron said that they
were using free trade in an unfair sense, and that they were
oontracting the sphere of indirect taxation. His noble friend
was mistaken if he supposed the proportion between direct
and indirect taxation was greatly altered. They had not con-
tracted the area of indirect taxation. The noble duke here
referred to certain revenue returns in proof of his statement.
Notwithstanding all the reductions made since 1842, the
amount of indirect taxation was six millions more than it
was in that year. It was also an error to suppose that they
were introducing a new system by extending direct taxa-
tion, but the truth was, that indirect taxes amounted to
nearly 75 per cent. of the whole taxation of the country.
There was no groundfor apprehending that the Government
had given up the power of imposing Customs' duties at any
future period, should the necessities of the country requite)
it. The noble lord opposite wished Government to explain
how it was that there came into the treaty a clause founded
on the repeal of the paper duties; but the noble lord knew
perfectly the danger a Cabinet ran in letting strangers be-
come aware of their intentions ; and therefore they would
not make known to their own negotiators their intentions
with respect to the duties in question. He believed that the
treaty would, independently of its effect upon the French
people, increase the comfort and happiness of his fellow-
countrymen, and tend to the prosperity of the country.
(Hear.)
Earl GREY stated that, having pledged himself to give
noble lords an opportunity of recording their opinion upon
the treaty, he could not acquiesce in the suggestion made
to him by the noble earl opposite, and withdraw the amend-
ment which he had conceived it to be his duty to submit for
the consideration of their lordships.
Their lordships then divided, when the numbers were—
Contents
Non-Contents
Majority —3o
The address was then agreed to, and the house adjourned
at 10 minutes to two o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The followiag bills were read a third time and passed :
Belper WraCT Corp.watioll Water; Llandaff
and Canton District Markets ; Midland Railway (Station
in St. Pancras, &c.) ; Midland Railway (use of railways in
and near London; Shrewsbury and Welchpool Railway;
West Somerset Railway ; York Improvement, &c. ; Man-
chester and Buxton Read ; and North London Railway.

made there had ben nan enormous amount of official per- ,
sons introduced into the establishment of bankruptcy, and
at the present the a spenses of administration of an estate
by the court amour ted very nearly, if not quite, to 33 per
cent upon the property administered. (Hear.) It was hardly
possible to bring "home to the mind a correct idea of the
enormous amount: of error or impropriety of management
which was involve sd in that administration. He might men-
tion that in ordinary life the cost of collecting debts was
about 5 per cent.,, while in the case of an unfortunate cre-
ditor whose debt amounted to £6OO, he had to submit in
bankruptcy t'.) a deduction of £2OO, to satisfy the claims
and to provide for the maintenance of persons who
had been appointed by the State to conduct the admi-
nistretion of estates taken out of the hands of creditors.
Those were unquestionably evils which standing
alone, would be sufficient to demonstrate the utter
impropriety of the system. Therefore he came before the
house with great confidence as to the necessity of a change;
but he was admonished by the failure of those who had for-
merly attempted the same thing. The measure now pre-
sented had ..been prepared with the utmost knowledge and
labour which he could bestow upon it, but he would ask the
house before coming to a determination upon it to examine
it with minute care, and to take nothing upon trust. He
hoped the house would have a full discussion upon the pre-
visions of the bill, not only by the legal members, but by
those hen, gentlemen who represented mercantile commu-
nities, and then hetrusted they Would pass a measure which
would be in conformity with the views generally of those
who best understood this important subject. It would be
impossible to understand the measure unless he gave a nar-
rative of the different provisions he proposed to introduce.
The first subject was one upon which, although not sinwil-
ling, he had been afraid to venture, he meant the subject of
the entire abolition of imprisonment for debt. He would
gladly have made that part of the present bill, but he was
afraid that it would have encountered much diversity of
opinion. It might, however, be put in another bill, should
the house feel inclined to favour its introduction. Ther6
being in this country two different systems of administra-
tion of bankrupts' estates, viz., bankruptcy and insolvency
an anomaly had arisen purely from accident. The result
was the bankruptcy law partook more of a criminal than a
civil character. No provision was made for the discharge of
an insolvent debtor who was not a trader, and for a long
time, as any one who wasconversant with the history of the
country was well aware, our gaols were crowded with insol-
vent debtors, for whom there were no means of deliver-
ance. At last a bill was introduced, not founded on any
principle of administration, but suggested merely by com-
passion, for insolvent debtors. By degrees this was en-
larged, until now, when the existing system provided for
the administration of the estates of insolvent debtors, but
only throttgh the medium of their imprisonment. This was
a vice in principle, because the insolvent debtor who. acted
with honesty, and give up all his property to his creditors,
was as much entitled, on every principle of the just admi-
nistration of the law, to obtain his discharge without im-
prisonment as the bankrupt was. What had they done P
They had sent him to prison, to be degraded and incarce-
rated, while at the same time there were no means of dis-
covering those who refused to give up their property to ad-
ministration. He proposed, then, having taken the opinion
of all who had considered the subject, including the most
distinguished men in the other House of Parliament, to
abolish entirely the distinction between insolvency and
bankruptcy, and to make both one law and one course of
procedure. The result would be that the creditor would
have no inducement to send the debtor to prison, as he
would be able to obtain the property without difficulty,
without the necessity of incarceration, whilst, on the other
' hand, the fraudulent debtor who wished to remain in prison
without surrender of his property would be defeated in his
object. He proposed that any person committed to prison
) for debt should be entitled to present a petition for adjudi-
cation in bankruptcy. In 1849 a law was passed providing
that no debtor could obtain an adjudication in bankruptcy
, unless he could show that his estate would pay ss. in the
L pound; and in 1854 a gross sum of £l5O was substituted.
Still, however, in one year 3,413 debtors applied to the In-
solvent Court, of whom 2,183 were persons called traders,
who were consequently obliged to submit to imprisonment.
He proposed that every insolvent, if he made a full surren-
) dm, should be adjudicated a bankrupt, and should not be
obliged to produce any certain sum of money to entitle him
' to adjudication. One great feature of the insolvency law
' was, that the insolvent after his discharge was still liable to
his creditors. In the case of a fraudulent debtor this was
L perfectly immaterial, whilst in the case of an honest man it
was most oppressive. He had therefore provided that this
, system should be entirely put an end to, that there should he
no incarceration, and that the adjudication should be final.
Without this it would be better for a. man to have no dis-
• charge at all, than to have all his future exertions para-
lysed by the fear of renewed demands, It was also pro-
vided by this bill that if a man should not have the means
of paying the expenses of adjudication he should be allowed
to plead in forma pauperis, the house being aware that
there was an annual grant from the Consolidated Fund for
that express purpose. He provided also that remaining 14
days in prison constituted an act of bankruptcy, and that
at the end of that time the bankrupt should be brought up
' for adjudication, whether he would or no. His property
would be distributed amongst his creditors, and himself
discharged. This he thought would practically abolish im-
prisonment for debt. (Hear, hear.) He abolished all tech-
nical acts of bankruptcy, by which persons, without being
aware of it, were often entrapped into expense, and substi-
tuted a few plain and simple rules of procedure. If a man
absconded in debt and remained abroad with a view of de •
feating his creditors, there would be no doubt as to the
manner in which he should be dealt with, as the same rule
should apply to the trader and the non-trader. If he per-
mitted part of his property to be sold under execution, or
procured his own arrest, these were acts of bankruptcy, and
his creditors could summon him before the court. These
were all incontrovertible and intelligible criteria of insol-
vency. These were the main provisions by which he pro-
posed to introduce one uniform mode of administration for
bankruptcy and insolvency. He came now: to the next evil
of the existing system, namely, the manner in which the
administration of the law was provided for, and certainly so
inoperative, so absurd, so singular a compound and admix-
ture of the judicial and administrative functions had pro-
bably never been witnessed in the dispensation of justice.
If they went into the Bankruptcy Court in London, they
would find five commissioners who were all judges, and the
result was that having five heads and five mouths, out of
which issued the law, they had of course every possible
variety of principle, and rule, and mode of administration.
But if they went into the court they found probably also
a meeting of creditors for the choice of assignees, but the
judge who presided, having no judicial functions to dis-
charge, would be sitting amidst all this confusion and hub-
bub, reading the journals of the day. (A laugh.) There
was no necessity for these five administrators of the law.
He had made inquiries, and he found the time devoted by
these administrators to strictly judicial duties was three
hours each per week, or fifteen hours per week for the whole
number. He should propose to sweep away altogether the
commissioners in London—(hear, hear)—but to leave them
their existing emoluments, and if an emergency arose they
would be required to give their assistance, and still to be
auxiliary to the administration of the justice of the new
court. The several commissioners received, each of them,
a clear salary of £2,000 a year, and ho believed they were
all appointed in 1832 or 1833. He proposed to substitute in
the place of those commissioners one single judge, so far as
the principal court was concerned, to be on a par in every re-
spect with the judges of the courts of equity and the courts
of common law, and to receive the same emolument, mid he
thought there would be no difficulty in finding numbers of
men well qualified for the office, and capabls of discharging
with the utmost ability the whole of the duties now per-
formed by the five commissioners. This judge would take
the judicial business properly so called, and there would be
a power of appeal from the country commissioners to him.
He proposed to divide the business of bankruptcy into that
which was purely judicial and that which was partly of a
judicial and partly of an administrative character, which
would be discharged by the judge in chambers. The remain-
ing business would be partly ministerial, and that he pro-
posed should be discharged by the registrars in bankruptcy.
There were in the Bankralitcy Court a number of officers
called registrars, who were barristers of considerable ability,
and who sometimes sat in the room of the commissioners.
The course of procedure proposed was that all undisputed
adjudications of bankruptcy, all meetings of creditors for
the choice of assignees, all private examinations of witnesses
or of the bankrupt, all,audit and dividend meetings, and all
exLmination of accounts, should be conducted by the regis-
trar, filling tie same relation to the judge as was now filled
by the masters in the courts of common law, or by the judge's
clerk in the case of the Master of the Rolls and the Vice-
Chanoellors, but with an immediate power of appeal in any
oase of controversy to the judge in chambers. With regard
to the business in the London district, there was, of course,
business to an enormous amount, but a very large portion of
it consisted of matters relating to small estates. He there-
fore proposed, that in the London district there should be
an auxiliary court, for the purpose of dealing with these
small estates. (Hear," hear.) In the London district the court
in Portugal-street, under its denomination of an Assistant
,A
Court to the Court of Bankruptcy, would be continued by
the bill for the purpose of administering the estates of all
bankrupts where the assets did not exceed £3OO. (Hear.)
He wished he could say that he had been able to arrange
the country districts in a manner equally satisfactory. The
district courts of bankruptcy were first established in 1842,
and antecedently to that time we were in the habit of send-
ing down a fiat in bankruptcy to the local commissioners.
That was a very fruitful source of expense and trouble,
and accordingly the district courts were established.
He believed that if the county court system had ex-
isted in 1842 there would never have been an
establishment of the district courts in bankruptcy. He
must say there was a painful contrast between our system
of bankruptcy and the Scotch system. The latter had ad-
hered to the old original Saxon constitution of the sheriffs'
courts. He should have been exceedingly glad to be able
to devise a plan which would satisfactorily remove the
whole of the existing district courts, but it would be im-
possible to do so at the present time. To sweep away the
district courts it would be necessary to deal with the exist-
ing commissioners in the same liberal spirit in which it was
proposed to deal with the London commissioners, and it
would be impossible for the Government to do that with
the present means at their disposal. He had, however, in-
troduced into the bill a provision to the effect that on the
occurrence of any future vacancy, it should be in the
power of her Majesty, by an order in council, to make a new
arrangement and distribution of the district so circum-
stanced, and to appropriate it in such a manner as might be
deemed right in favour of the county courts, and invest the
judges of these courts with the powers previously enjoyed
biwnyaatift2deaainsttdmritce this led
(Hear, hear.) If they took
any one of the district courts of bankruptcy, they would
gr
find there was attached to it an immense area. For in-
stance, to the court of Bristol was given nearly the whole of
measure
ur ethat
a delays,t inconvenience
expense expense.
would
be prevented by the jurisdiction being transferred to the
county courts. (Hear.) These were the principal subjects
upon tho head of the administration of the Bankruptcy
Court and the constitution of the new tribunals. He would
only say on the subject of the expense, that the constitution

of the new court, when it should come into play in London,
would be very much less in point of expense than the con-
stitution of the existing establishments —(hear, hear)--and
therefore, on the groun of expense, there would be a very
considerable gain by the alteration. 'Under the present
system a person who had once gone into the Court of Bank-
ruptcy could not escape from it until it had adminis-
tered, the whole of his estate. This led to very great
inconvenience. A debtor owed a variety of debts, and his
creditors wished to invoke the aid of the bankruptcy law for
a particular purpose, but they were unable to do so, for when
the debtor was once put within the walls of the court he
could not leave without permitting the whole of the estate
to be wound up and administered. That was a very great
injustice, and therefore he (the right lion. gentleman) was
anxious to propose that if creditors were compelled to resort
to the Court of Bankruptcy for any particular purpose, they
might at any time they pleased, provided chat a majority of
the creditors consented, suspend the proceedings in bank-
ruptcy, and take the whole of the estate out of the adminis-
tration of the court, and have recourse to other measures.
(Hear, hear.) Another rain would be obtained by this bill.
At present if en honest trader were in difficulties and wished
to make a disclosure of his affairs to his friends, and lay be-
fore them the account of his estate, and the friends were
desirous of making an arripngement and preventing the
necessity for a bankruptcy, the debtor would put himself in
the power of some particular creditor, who, to pursue a
private end, might throw him into bankruptcy, and thus
defeat any attempt at an amicable arrangement. According
to the plan embodied in the bill, immediately, on the adjudi-
cation of bankruptcy a meeting of creditors would be called,
and if a majority of them should think it advisable not to
go on, or only to a limited extent, they would have the
power of coming to a resolution to that effect. The way
this would operate as a protection to and relief of an honest
debtor would be this—ha would have the power, without
having committed any act of bankruptcy, of presenting
petition for an adjudication of bankruptcy. (Hear, hear.)
The creditors might then bo called together, and the
debtor wquld make a proposal for a compromise, and if
it were found to be one they could justly entertain, then
the creditors would have the power of making a conclusive
and binding arrangement, without the possibility of its
being interfered with by any envious person. (Hear, hear.)
In this way he-proposed to make the law of bankruptcy,
and the principles of that law, a part of the law of debtor
acid creditor generally—(hear, hear)—which it ought to be,
instead of its being a special judication, to be purchasers
only at great cost and suffering. (Hear, hear.) The next
point to which he wished to call the attention of the house
was the security proposed by the bill to be given to all these
compositions, assignments, andprivate arrangements. They
were perfectly well aware that a great stigma had always
attended the very name of bankruptcy. He would refer to
the statistics on the subject, and the house would be sur-
prised to find that the contrast between the number of ad-
judications in bankruptcy and the number of trust deeds
and deeds of arrangement was immense. In 1858, and for
a series of years antecedent, the adjudications in bankruptcy
were not more than ono in seven. In 1858, the number of
adjudications was 660, and the number of trust deeds and
deeds of composition and arrangement was computed to
have been more than 8,000. Now, what was the reason
that in cases of insolvency creditors were content to put up
with the imperfect relief of a trust deed, where they had no
supervision of the law, no power of examining the debtor,
and no authority to compel an investigation of the accounts?
Why, the answer was, of course, partly the expense, partly
the inconvenience, and partly the cruel and stringent pro-
visions of the bankruptcy law. All these circumstances in-
duced creditors to prefer the imperfect trust deed to proceed-
ing by adjudication in bankruptcy. (Hear; hear.) But
was it not possible to give him still the benefit of that pre-
ference, and at the same time to give him the whole benefit
of the law of debtor and creditor with regard to his claim
against the bankrupt's estate ? Now he (the Attorney-
General) endeavoured to accomplish that purpose by provi-
sions of the following nature. If a trader was in difficulty
and desired to meet his creditors and they him, by a deed
of composition, a deed of arrangement, or an assignment of
' his property, he would be enabled to do so. He would be
secured against adverse persons destroying the whole plan
of arrangement by resorting to' an adjudicailin in bank-
ruptcy, but then the following conditions would bo im-
posed upon him. The deed of arrangement or composition
was to be registered in the Court of Bankruptcy; the debtor
was to pay both for the registration and adjudication—and
as soon as the deed was registered in bankruptcy the debtor,
trustees, and creditors would be placed mutually in the same
relative position to one another as if the debtor had been
adjudicated a bankrupt, and the trustees had been duly ap-
pointed trustees of the estate. There would be no public
proceeding, save so far as publicity might be deemed requi-
site by the creditors, and being requisite, then they might
resort to the Court of Bankruptcy for the personal exami-
nation of any party whom they might desire to examine.
The whole law of bankruptcy therefore would be at once
incorporated in the law with regard to debtor and creditor
under trust deeds and the administration of estates. The
creditors might thus under a deed get the same benefit as if
there had been adjudication in bankruptcy. The import-
ance of this particular part of the bill in respect to financial
considerations could not be over estimated. At present the
principal source of revenue of the Court of Bankruptcy was
an injurious and oppressive tax levied in the shape of a per
cenfraga upon all estates brought into the court. By the bill
of 1849 power was given to tax every estate administered in
bankruptcy with a per centage of between ss. per cent. and
£.5 per cent. Any rate between those two termini which
the commissioner might deem it proper to inflict upon the
estate, according to the exigencies of the case, he had the
power of imposing. The result was, that very large es-
tates had of necessity been driven out of the Court of Bank-
ruptcy. They would never go to that court to administer
an estate of £lOO,OOO, £150,000, or £200,000, if there was
any possibility of avoiding it ; and the small estates which
went there were subject to a per centage in a less degree,
probably, but yet to an extent which left very little for
those interested in them. With regard to the revenue of
the court, the state of the case was this. In 1858 the per
centage paid into court by the official assignees was
£41,407 125., but in 1859 it was only £29,922, thus show-
ing an immense falling off in the business of the eourt.
The stamp duties paid upon certain proceedings in 1858
amounted to £21,201, but in 1859 they yielded only
£13,850. In fact the Court of Bankruptcy would have been
in a much worse position, in a financial point of view, if it
had not been for a very fortunate provision made some years
before for the appointment of official assignees, who at once
applied themselves to recovering and getting in assets
which had been lost sight of and neglected under the ante-
cedent administrations of bankruptcy, and who had suc-
ceeded in recovering many hundred of thousands of pounds.
(Hear.) That sum of money was invested in the Bank-
ruptcy Court; and under another provision it was paid
as received by the accountant-general in bankruptcy into
the Bank of England, where there was always upon this
account a large floating balance which, in 1858, yielded an
income to the court of £49,605. But then that fund was
obliged to be drawn upon in order to supply the deficit aris-
ing from the failing business of the court, and accordingly
the interest arising upon that fund in 1859 was only
£46,070, showing a diminution of £3,500. Now there were
three principal supplies to meet the wants and expenses of
the court. From .a Parliamentary paper, dated the 14th of
February, 1860, it appeared that the whole expenditure of
the court in 1859 amounted to £112,469, which included com-
pensations and retiring annuities to the extent of £20,200
odd. These compensations were the penalties paid for errors
in the constitution of the court in former times, which were
atoned for by the bill of reform in bankruptcy which abo-
lished certain offices. The house would recollect that under
the Testamentary Bill they were obliged to make some pro-
vision for Mr. Moore's annuity of £BOO. There was ano-
ther difficulty, via., the sinecure office of . one of the
accountants in bankruptcy, which yielded no less a sum
than £7,352 per annum. (Hear.) Now these compensations
and retiring annuities had been thrown on the funds of the
court, and he thought the house would agree with him, un-
justly. (Hear.) Why should the present suitors pay for the
errors of former times ? They were encumbered with every
description of burden, but they added to their burdens pay-
ments which ought to be borne by the country itself, seeing
that it was by their predecessors that these errors had been
ommitted. On his representation, therefore, his right
hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer consented to
transfer, if the house should approve of it, two sums of
£17,161 and £3,066, making together L 20,200, which would
be a relief accorded to the funds of the Court of Bankruptcy.
But they had this consolation, that those charges would
only endure for a few years, though ho must confess ho
found that sinecurists lived for almost an indefinite period.
(Laughter.) That relief to the funds of the court would
enable him to diminish most considerably the charges made
upon suitors. (Hoar, hear.) He proposed that all the fens of
the court should be removed, except the mere entrance fee.
He calculated that there would b a a great increase in the
business of the court. §upposing he succeeded in bringing
into the court 5,000 or 6,000 trust deeds. Upon these he
proposed to attach a tax. Where the estate was under
£l,OOO, a tax of £5 only was to be paid upon registration ;
between £l,OOO and £3,000, £10; and over £3,000, £l5. He
calculated that this tax would yield an income of £60,000 a
year, and he proposed to abrogate all the per oentago fees
which were at present levied on estates, and the registrar's
fees, and to reduce the fees payable to the court to the
smallest possible amount, so that the suitors would have to
pay less than perhaps was at present paid by suitors in any
of the courts of Westminster Hall. (Hear, hear.) Another
tact, at which the house would be surprised, was, that the
Bank of England received as remuneration for keeping the
account of the accountant in bankruptcy no less a sum than
£3,100 in one year, although the quarterly balances
amounted to between £5,000 and £6,000. Those balances,
he thought, were a sufficient remuneration for the manage-
ment of the account--(hear, hear)—and he hoped that some
arrangement would be made to get rid of that charge, thus
giving a still further relief to suitors.' The learned Attorney-
General then proceeded to give a description of the details of
the bill. The adjudication would be made immediately on
the petition being presented, but time would be allowed
the bankrupt in case of a contested adjudication
to controvert the conclusion of the court, and in
the meantime precautions would be taken for the immediate
preservation of the property. He proposed to abolish the
office of messenger altogether. That functionary discharged
his duty by deputy, to whom he paid 3s. 6d. a-day, and yet
he found that some messengers had received in the shape of
profits sums as large as £1,296, £1,361, and £1,767 a-year,
land some had been oven more fortunate. (Hear.) The
official assignee would be charged with the custody of the
estate up to the time of the choice of the creditors' assig-
nees, and he proposed that the official assignee should have
power to go to a judge at chambers and get authority to
keep open the trade for the benefit of the creditors, until the
creditors should have determined among themselves what
should be done with it. (Hear, hear.) The principle of
the bill was that the estate of the debtor belonged to the
creditors, and the whole of the machinery was and ought to
be for the benefit of the creditors exclusively—(hear, hear)
—and they should have the right, by a recognised majority,
of determining to what extent and in what manner it should
be applied. (Hear, hear.) The ielativepositionof the offi-
cial assignee and the creditors' assignee was a subject on
which there was a great contrariety of opinion. The official
assignees, in their present position were the men to receive
monies and give discharges for them. In one respect this
had been convenient, by creating those large floating bal-
ances in the Bank, the investment of which had enabled the
Court of Bankruptcy to keep its head above water. But
on the other hand, it had justly been complained that the
official assignee reduced the creditors assignee to a mere
cipher, usurping all those functions which the auditor ap-
pointed by the creditors might discharge. He had there-
fore devised something between the two. He proposed
that immediately on the choice of the creditors' assignee,
whether they chose one of themselves or any other per-
son, the official assignee should ,be bound to render to
him a full and particular account of all his receipts
and payments, and hand over to the creditors' assignee
the whole of the property. But then he proposed
that the official assignee should afterwards stand in the
position of the auditor of the creditors' assignee. The ob-
ligation of paying all the monies received into the Bank
of England would devolve on the creditors' assignee, which
was a proper and necessary caution. At present the official
assignee was trusted in everything, but he was sorry to say
that several defalcations had been discovered, to the amount
of £llO,OOO or £120,000 altogether, and what others there
might have been it was impossible to know. He also pro-
posed that the great invention of printing, one of the last
things to find its way into the administration of the law,

should be employed here. An enormous amount of saving
and convenience, he had often said, would result, if print-
ing were substituted for the mediaeval barbarism of written
parchments in many cases. (Hear.) . One fourth part of
the existing litigation would lee entirely annihilated, if the
contents of deeds and documents could be more readily and
correctly ascertained, as might bo the result of using the
printing-press, instead of the present cumbrous and expen-
sive mode of producing them. He proposed, then, that iu
accordance with the practice of the great railway and other
companies, the creditors' assignee should render quarterly
accounts of the whole of his receipts and payments, and of
all the circumstances of the estate; that the quarterly ac-
count should be audited and examined by the official assig-
nee ; that immediate recourse shonld'be had to the registrar
or judge, if any question arose thereon; that the account
should be vouched by the creditor's assignee, and the official
assignee should be charged with the duty of seeing that all
the moneys which had come into the hands of the creditors'
assignee were faithfully paid over into the bank ; and he
then proposed that a printed copy of this account, in the
form of a belance-sheet of the bankrupt's estate, should be
sent to every creditor. It was already provided that, when
the creditors had been ascertained, a printed list of the cre-
ditors should be sent to each creditor ; and within three
months after the bankruptcy each creditor would also get a
printed account of .the administration of the estate, with-
out having to carpi y an attorney, or to travel from his own
home. (Hear, hear.) In this way the creditors' assig-
nee would be kept in check by the official assignee, and
the official assignee, having to discharge a very important
duty, would also be kept in check, and the creditors them-
selves would receive, by these printed balance-sheets, a se-
curity for the faithful management of the estate. As for the
emoluments of the official assignees, they were not to suffer
materially by this change. It appeared from a return that
the average of those emoluments was £1,500 a year in Lon-
don, and £1,200 in the country. He therefore proposed,
under the recommendations of the commission of 1854,
to give to each official assignee, independently of tho allow-
ance for clerks and other expenses, a certain annual salary
of £BOO, and give power to the judge to augment that salary,
according to the work done, until it attained the maximum
of £1,500 a year. He had no doubt that the quantity of
business, from the number of cases now disposed of by
trust assignments, which would come into the court, would
be so considerable that every official assignee might safely
reckon on this income of £1,500 a year, because his duties
would be.sufficiently onerous to justify that remuneration.
Power would, however, be given to the creditors, in case
the estate should appear to them to be ono that could better
be administered in a more simple and economical form, to
come to a decision for that purpose. Wherever an estate had
been ascertained not to exceed the value of £l,OOO, a cer-
tain majority of the creditors might, if they thought it right
to do so, transfer the administration of it to the County
Court ; though, if he succeeded in reducing as much as he
hoped, the fees in the Court of Bankruptcy, the power
' would, he thought, seldom be exercised. But he proposed
that all the very small estates, not exceeding £3OO in their
assets; would at once be relegated, if the creditors desired, to
the County Court, since th registrar and treasurer, the
County Court officers, could amply perform all the func-
tions that would otherwise have to be discharged by the
official assignee and registrar of the Bankruptcy Court.
One great alteration of the law which he proposed was
this : In the law of bankruptcy, at present, there was
a strange mixture of the civil and the criminal
law. There was a criminal jurisdiction of the most sin-
gular kind. It treated the bankrupt as a criminal with-
out any accurately defined offence, and with no -
thing more than a description of moral misconduct, extra-
vagance, recklessness, or great want of prudence, all these
being subjects of the most indefinite and elastic kind, on
which no two men could be found to agree. (Hear, hear.)
The administration of this penal law was therefore marked
by the most painful uncertainty, inconsistency, and contra-
diction. The classification of certificates, as granted by the
Commissioners in London, showed a remarkable variety lii
their determinations. Mr. Commissioner Evans, out of
479 applications for certificates during five years, only
granted 17 first-class certificates, or but lin 28. In the
same time, Mr. Commissioner Fonblanque, out of 453 ap-
plications, granted 31 first-class, or 1 in 14, while Mr. Com-
missioner Fane, out of 628 applications, granted el6l first
class, or lin less than 4%eases. (Hear.) Now, what an in-
consistency appeared in this I Of the other two Commis-
sioners in London, the one granted a first-class certificate
once in every 10 cases, and the other once in 11. If he con-
trasted. the proceedings of the courts in the country with
the decisions of the judges of appeal in bankruptcy upon
them, he found still more painful contradictions. The whole
system of the classification of certificates, which was a doc-
trinaire principle introduced into the bill of 1849, was in-
jurious in another point of view. It led to immense litiga-
tion and discussion when the bankrupt applied for his cer-
tificate. Then occurred those long examinations which
were reported in the daily papers, and hence those appeals
afterwards to the courtabove, with those continual reversals
of first decisions which had been observed so much He
thought it was impossible to draw the line between impunity
for the debtor and criminal punishment by the criminal
law. Lot the criminal laws in regard to any fraudulent
contracting of debt be made as stringent and severe as
you pleased, but let there not be something set up be-
tween the two, which was ,neither law nor certain justice,
but which was a singular discretionary power, applied
in a very indefinite manner, which reminded one of the old
reproach that the bankrupt's conduct was measured and
determined according to the size of the commissioner's
foot. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He proposed, therefore,
to lay down vest strict rules with regard to fraudulent con-
duct in trade, and to leave those rules to be applied by a
court of criminal jurisdiction, but to give to the commis-
sioner where the bankrupt Was prosecuted the power of
suspending the discharge of the bankrupt, making the sus-
pension of the discharge co-existent with the amount of
the punishment inflicted on the bankrupt in respect of his
offence. He would not advert to some minor provisions of
the bill and alterations of the present system. It was rather
in deference to the opinions of others that he had introduced
a series of clauses which might be called the death clauses,
providing that where the debtor, having committed an act
of bankruptcy, died without having been made a bankrupt,
the creditors, after his death, should have the same power
of administering his estate in bankruptcy which they would
have had if he had remained alive. These clauses were
originally devised before the great change that was recently
made in the administration of the estates of deceased debtors
in the Court of Chancery. The alterations which had been
made in the operation of that tribunal in this respect would,
in a great measure, answer the same purpose as these
clauses in the bill which he now proposed. He believed
the estate of a deceased debtor might now be administered
in the Court of Chancery in the simplest and most expedi-
tious way, and at an amount of cost very little exceeding 5
per cent. of the amount of the estate. In fact, one of the
eminent judges in the Court of Chancery had once said
that he would lay a wager that any estate could now be ad-
ministered in Chancery at a less coat than it could possibly
be done out of court by the agency of private hands ; and he
(the Attorney-General) believed that there was a great deal
of foundation for that statement. He did not then him-
self consider that these death clauses would practically
be of much utility. That was a matter, however, which
he would leave to the investigation of the house in
committee, as well as other points for the improvement
of the bill. He trusted they would be able to estab-
lish by this means a simple, uniform, expeditious and econo-
mical system. He would ask the house to take the second
reading of the bill, on which he did not expect a very long
discussion, some day before Easter, in order that the com-
mittee upon it, in which a great deal of.laborious attention
to details would be requisite, might be fixed as soon after
Easter as possible, or else the bill would be in danger of not
passing at all, unless it got into the upper house by the be-
ginning of June. It might occur to some hon. gentlemen, as
a great omission in the bill, compared with former measures,
that it did not advert to the winding up of joint-stock com-
panies. That matter had been left out here because it formed
the subject of a very comprehensive measure, which was in-
tended -to accompany this bill, and which had already
passed the House of Lords and come down to that house;
and he` intended to move the second reading of it upon an
early day in the next week. He now moved for leave to
bring in',llhe bill. (Cheers.)
Sir F. KELLY congratulated the house upon this long-
desired measure, which had at length been brought forward.
It would not became him to enter at length upon the consi-
deration of the bill, but he would just call the attention of
the house, and of his hon. and learned friend, to a few
points which seemed to deserve attention. It was with great
satisfaction he heard that it was intended to sweep away the
whole present system of courts of bankruptcy—(hear)—but
whilst expressing his entire concurrence in the abolition of
the metropolitancourt, he would remind his hon. and learned
friend of the great difficulty there was in carrying a some-
what analogous measure for the abolition of the Ecclesias-
tical Court and in the establishment of a Probate Court,
for which, indeed, they were mainly indebted to the Attor-
ney-General. (Cheers.) For four successive years the
measure was before Parliament in one shape or another,
and he now warned the Government against attempting to
pass any bill which would bind the new court of justice to
adminiseer a separate branch of the law without intro-
ducing into it the .system of common law procedure.
He urged the expediency, not to say the necessity, that
existed that the new court should have the power of exam-
ining viva voce, of, examining in open court, of trial by jury
when such a course was desirable, and of formal reports of
the proceedings of the court, so that the country might be
satisfied the tribunal possessed the double jurisdiction of a
court of equity and of common law. With these he doubted
not but the scheme of the Government would, with suit
able machinery, be valuable and effective—and be in a great
commercial country a most desirable improvement in our
mercantile laws. The bill would destroy all distinctions
between trader and non-trader, and one of his (Sir F.
Kelly's) great wishes on this subject was, that the estates
of insolvent persons might be administered to the satisfac-
tion of creditors, in many, perhaps, in most cases, without
resort to the Court of Bankruptcy at all. His hon. and
learned friend did not, he presumed, intend to abolish the
office of official assignee, but to confer upon him an impor-
tant position in all cases, if he rightly understood, whether
in voluntary liquidation or in bankruptcy. He believed he
rightly expressed the meaning of the Attorney-General.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL explained. The official
assignee would represent the estate until the creditors' as •
signse was appointed; then he would give way to the cro
ditors' assignee in receiving and auditing the creditors'
accounts.

Sir F. KELLY observed that the more he considered the
cases either where the estate was to be managed, or where
there had been bankruptcy, not a transfer to voluntary
liquidation or where there was no bankruptcy at all, but
where the creditors at a meeting resolved upon liquida-
tion, and where the Court of Bankruptcy would not, ex-
cept in case of necessity, be called in at all, the more he
became convinced of the absolute necessity there was of
affording every facility to winding up voluntary liqui-
dation. He was glad to hear that £20,000 a year (it
used to be £45,000) paid out of debtors' estates, paid
as pensions to persons who had held certain office
35 years ago, was about to be transferred to the Conso-
lidated Fund; for there was no more justice or equity
in taking such money out of the pockets of creditors than
there was in burdening it upon the estate of any private
gentleman. (Hear.) This had been a most flagrant abuse,
and its proposed abolition was highly creditable to the Go-
vernment. He believed this would be the beginning of a
system of economy which every man interested in the mer-
cantile affairs of the country would hail with very great
satisfaction. He could not very distinctly understand from
what his hon. and learned friend the Attorney-General
said, what connection there was between this bill and the
proposed winding-up bill for joint-stock companies. This
latter was no doubt a question of great difficulty and com-
plication, but he would venture to remind the house and
his hon. and learned friend that there was the greatest dan-
ger lest there might be any inconsistency in the provisions
of the two measures—fur great inconsistencies were fatal
blots in legislation. It was essential that both measures
should be substantially the same, and that they should work
together in entire harmony one with the other. The hon.
'and learned gentleman concluded by again expressing his
satisfaction at the measure, to which he hoped to be able to

give an earnest and a hearty support. (Cheers.)
Mr. E. JAMES said that the preparation of this measure
had no doubt required the most unwearied industry, as well
as great courage in its introduction. The subject was so
vast, and the legislation which had taken place on the sub
ject way so intricate, that the administration of the law of

bankruptcy in our jurisdiction had become a scandal to the
nation. No judge, scarcely any lawyer, could tell what the
law was, or, such was the infinite variety of acts upon this
subject, where to look. With reference to the application
of the new law in the country districts, some defects in the
bill might be remedied in committee. It seemed to him
that the bankruptcy laws should not be subject to commis-
sioners sitting at Liverpool, Leeds, and Bristol: and this
was a part of the measure to which the attention of the
house should be directed. He believed, too, the county
court jud`ges were not the persons to have this jurisdiction
committed to their care. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MALINS congratulated the house and the country
that at length they were likely to have a rational system of
bankruptcy, and he rejeiced that the distinction which ex-
isted between non-traders and traders would be abolished,
for the distinction was most anomalous and unreasonable.
He had long since urged upon the house that, this distinc-
tion should bs no longer allowed to exist. He was glad to
find that the bill would sweep away all classes of certificates,
for at present the commissioners took wholly different views
of very similar cases. The true policy was that a man
should, after ceding the whole of his property for the benefit
of his creditors, be allowed the opportunity of paying his
debts, -and should have the capacity of trading restore,' to
him: (II ear.) He would give his cordial assistance in
Making this bill a complete measure, and he hoped the Go-
vernment would give every opportunity to his hon. and
learned friend in order that it might be passed this session.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in reply, said that ho
was much indebted to the house for the very kind manner
in which they had received this bill. In so great and in-
tricate and difficult a subject, he was perfectly conscious
there Were a number of provisions which, in point of ex-
pression, in matter of fact, and in congruity, might receive
con; id arable improvement, but he could assure the house he
should receive all suggestions with a most grateful mind.
He trusted they would not object to the second reading of
the bill being taken that day fortnight, seeing that it was a
measure upon which rsuch discussion must arise on its de-
tails in committee.

The bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read
a second time on that day fortnight.
CUSTOMS ACTS COMMITTEE—HOPS.

The house then went into committee on the Customs Acts.
The UTIANCELLOR of.the EXCHEQUER begged to
propose an amended resolution, reducing the duty on hops
from the Ist of January, 1861 (not undertreaty), "That on
and after the Ist of January, 1861, in lieu of the duty of
customs now chargeable on the article undermentioned on
importation into Great Britain and Ireland, the following
duty shall be charged, viz. :—Hops, until the Ist January,
1862, the cwt., 205.: hops, on and after the Ist January,
1862, the cwt., 15s.
Mr. DODSON moved, as an amendment, that it should
remain for the present an open question for the house to
deal with, whether there should be any and what duty
levied on hops from and after the Ist January, 1862. The
excise duty on hops was peculiar and oppressive to the
producer, and he wished to remind the house that this duty
and the customs duty on hops were inseparably connected,
and that they must stand or fall together. The excise duty
was peculiar, because the consumption of hops was strictly
limited to the extent of the malt duty ; but owing to the
uncertain nature of the crop the amount of hops produced
was uncontrollable. The only element under control was
the extension or reduction of the acreage ; but even that
was most inefficient. In 1842, 46,000 acres yielded five times
as largo a crop as 54,000 acres in 1854. The result was that
by no fault or improvidence on the part of the producer
more hops were produced than were required for the con-
sumption of the year, and as the excise duty was levied,
not on the manufactured article, not on the hops which
found their way into the brewer's vat, but on the raw
material at the source of supply, the producer had to pay
out of his own. pocket a duty on the quantity in excess.
Ho contended that this was contrary to all the doctrines of
political economy. His moderate proposition was that the
right hon. gentleman should take the duty for one year
only, leaving it to a future session—and probably a future
Parliament—to determine in 1861 whether any or what
duties should be levied on hops ; and he hoped that by
economy and retrenchment, together with the increased re-
ceipts from other sources of income, they would be enabled
to dispense with this impost at the end of the year.
Sir B. BRIDGES seconded the amendment.
Lord HOLMESDALE, who addressed the house for the
first time, urged that excessive hardship was inflicted on
the hop farmer by this unjust and vexatious tax, and that
the loss fell upon the hop growers, not upon the hop factors.
He believed this was, except the tax on chicory, the only
duty levied on any raw unmanufactured article the produce
of the soil of this country. The amount of the tax was some-
times more than the price which the grower could obtain,
and it was a fact that in many cases lately hops had been
exported merely for the sake of obtaining the drawback of
excise allowed for exportation, and then the hops had been
thrown overboard in mid-channel.
Mr. JOHN LOCKE said that many of his own consti-
tuents were hop factors, and he could not admit that, as the
noble lord had said, they threw the whole burden of this
duty on the planters. The average cost of growing hops in
this country was £26 an acre, whilst the foreigner could
grow his hops at from to £l7 an acre. He (Mr. Locke)
being a free trader, would not, however, rely upon any pro-
tectionist arguments ' • but the British and foreign producer
were unequally dealt with ; for whilst the former, as soon as
the hops were picked and pocketed, was obliged to pay the
duty, the foreigner could choose his own time, and send
his hops to be bonded in this country, until the market rose
for them, and then, by paying the duty, he could let them
loose against the English grown hops, which enjoyed no
such facilities, No doubt this was free trade, but his con-
stituents did not like it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DEEDES, on the part of the hop-growing district
with which he was connected, begged to say that they were
ready and willing to stand the test of perfect and entire free
trade—(cheers)—they would stand or fall by it whatever
might be the result ; but he must say it was strange to see a
Government, which avowed itself a free trade Government,
refuse to entertain a proposition so much in accordance.witil
their general professions. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PEVENSEY expressed his entire astonishment at
the course which the right hen. gentleman the Chancellor
of the Exchequer meant to pursue. He could not conceive
how the committee could refuse their sanction to the prin-
ciple which they had ratified over and over again. (Hear,
hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured
the hon. gentleman who proposed the amendment, as well
as the noble lord who supported it, that it was a great mis-
take to suppose the hop duty was maintained because Chan-
cellors of the Exchequer found it convenient to themselves.
On the contrary, he did not hesitate to say that if the mea-
sure of the matter were to be the comfort of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, this duty was the dearest money that
came into his pocket. (Hear, hear.) There was no reason
why the hop duty should be a terminable duty. The same
argument would apply to marine and fire insurances. He
objected, however, to Parliament in 1860 dealing with the
finances of the country which were applicable to the year
1862. The Government, must, however, oppose the motion
of the hon. member, as they had no desire to embarrass
themselves in reference to the financial branch of this ques-
tion, as they thought the proposal an unsound one. The
Government had shown every disposition to deal with the
details of this question in a manner calculated to meet the
wants of gentlemen opposite by a reduction of the duty
some 30 per cent., at a loss to the revenue of £lOO,OOO
a-year. _ _

the committee, after a few words in vindication of this
course,Fdoirvtidheedr,easnodlutthioenre appeared-
-138
Against it
Majority
—34
The amendment was consequently lost.
The CHAIRMAN reported the resolution,and the house
resumed.
Several members having appealed in vain to the Chan-
cellor to adjourn the consideration of the malt duty,
Mr. LYGON moved the adjournment of the debate.
The house then divided, and there appeared—
For the adjournment
Against it
Majority
ENCLOSURE BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
PROBATE AND ADMINISTRATION BILL.
This bill was further considered on the Lords' amend-
ment.

ADULTERATION OF FOOD AND DRINK BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL.
This ,bill was read a third time and passed.
MARINE MU TINY BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
The house then adjourned at twelve o'clock.

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