The Sun.
London, England, 1860-08-25 00:00:00

ferred to it as an evtnt pregnant with the most serious con -
sequences, which it would require all the judgment and care
of the Government to deal with. (Hear, hear.) With regard
to the course which the hon. and learned gentleman indi-
cated as about to be followed by Gen. Garibaldi, I have to
remind him that the King of Naples has an army of 60,000
or 70,000 men, and a fleet very large in comparison withany
which Gen. Garibaldi is able to scrape together. Therefore,
if Gen. Garibaldi should achieve the success which the hon.
and learned gentleman anticipates, it must not be by the force
which he brings to bear against the Government of Naples,
but by the assistance of the people of the country. (Hear,
hear.) It is quite impossible that the force with which
General Garibaldi undertakes the expedition can
obtain success unless he is joined by the inha-
bitants. Whether he will receive that support or
not I leave it to the future to disclose. As to the ques-
tion of my hon. friend the member for Perth, it is well
known that the Conferences referred to were sought by
the Swiss Confederation, and were, more or less, agreed to
by all the other Powers. At the same time various matters
have arisen to delay the meeting of the Congress, and at
present no period is fixed for its assembling. The Treaty
of Turin has not received formal acknowledgment by any of
the Powers—certainly not by this country, and cannot, at
present, be said to form part of the public law of Europe.
The cession of Savoy to France was a very peculiar transac-
tion—(hear, hear).-and does not come within the ordinary
category of cession of territory made by one sovereign to
another. The territory of Savoy was held by the King of
Sardinia subject to very peculiar conditions attached to it
by the Treaty of Vienna, to which all the eight Powers of
Europe were parties. It was not competent for the King c•f
Sardinia to cede, nor, as I hold, for France to accept that
territory—(hear, hear)—thus emancipating it from the con-
ditions under which it stood as part of the dominions of Sar-
dinia. (Hear, hear.) The conditions had mainly for their
object the preservation of the neutrality and independence
of Switzerland, and it is clear that Savoy, in the hands of
France, stands in a very different position in regard to the
maintenance of the neutrality of Switzerland than when in
the hands of Sardinia. (Hear, hear.) France being a
much stronger Power and differently situated in many re-
spects, there is greater danger to Switzerland from it than
from Sardinia. The cession was objectionable not only on
that account, but on account of the manner in which it
was made. All the circumstances connected with it from
first to last, the denials at one time and avowals at another,
the promises made, as reported, by the President of Swit-
zerland in his message of March, the promises made in
January and February by the French Government to the
Minister of Switzerland, that whenever the cession should
be completed Faucigny and Chablais should be transferred
to Switzerland—a promise afterwards retracted, and appa-
rently never intended to be performed—(hear)—all these
circumstances must produce a most painful impression in
the minds of every man in regard to all the parties who
were concerned in the transaction. (General cheering.) It
had certainly produced a painful impression on the minds
of all the other States of Europe—an impression showing
that they considered that, for the future, forethought and
precaution must be the duty of every Power. (Cheers.)
I should hope that the result will be that France will con-
sider she is bound by a regard to her honour and good faith
, to close these transactions in a manner consistent with the
due and complete security and independence of Switzerland.
(Hear, hear.) It is quite true, as my hon. friend has stated,
that the neutrality and independence of Switzerland are for
the interests of all Europe. The Swiss are deserving the
sympathy and goodwill of all the Powers, from the manly
character and spirited independence which they have
always displayed—ineffensive to their neighbours, and ready
to defend themselves against all corners. (Hear:) But it
was not simply and solely from a regard to the Swiss that
the arrangement was made. It was from a wise and well-
considered regard for the general interests of Europe, and
the maintenance, as far as possible, of the peace of Europe.
(Cheers.) I cannot but hope that the FrenCh Government
will, on account of the engagements to which France was a
party, on account of the promises which she held out to
Switzerland, and for the sake of the general and future in-
terests of Europe, make some arrangement which will
satisfy the just expectations and guarantee the security of
the Swiss Confederation. (Hear.) It is not necessary that
I should enter further into that branch of the question.
But my hon. friend the member for Bridgewater went at
some length not only into that Swiss question, but also
into those other questions of great importance—the trans-
actions in Syria and Italy. It is deeply to be lamented that
these unfortunate events should have taken place in Syria.
My hon. friend stated facts which have come to his know-
ledge with regard to whence, and through wheal, and from
what causes these disturbances originated. Ido not feel it
necessary to follow him in those investigations. The duty
of her Majesty's Government is rather to endeavour to pre-
vent the recurrence of these evils than to scrutinise mi-
nutely the sources out of which they arose. (Cheers.) We
are acting in concert with France, Austria, Russia, and
Prussia, and I hope that steps will be taken which will be
effectual for the purpose we have in view. We believe
that the Turkish Government is sincerely desirous of
taking every step necessary to punish the guilty, to make
an example of the offenders, and to lay the foundation
for future tranquillity between those hostile races,
and I cannot but believe that if those measures are
properly taken, they will accomplish the purpose for which
they are intended. (Hear, hear.) Commissioners of whom
Lord Dufferin on our part is one, will go to Syria, collect
information, and suggest such measures as they think best
calculated for the future peace and security of the country.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Poole went a little
further east—to Persia. By the bye, he stopped in Egypt
on the way, and referred to an answer which I gave last
evening as to the power of the Pasha to raise a loan pledged
on the Customs duties of Egypt. The arrangement made
in 1840 and 1841 was this—that the Pasha should pay a
given amount of tribute to the Sultan, but that the remain-
ing part of the revenue of Egypt should be at his disposal,
to be employed by him as he pleased. In one sense the
Pasha is limited in his power to mortgage, because the tri-
bute to the Sultan is a prior claim to any engagement which
he may make with regard to any part of the revenue. But
supposing that the tribute is faithfully and fully paid, then
I apprehend the remaining part is for him to spend as he
pleases, or to mortgage for the interest of a loan. With
regard to the tribute itself, it is well known that it was
pledged by the Turkish Government as security for a loan
which Turkey raised ; but I believe the pledge does not go
beyond that tribute. With regard to Persia, I can assure
my hon. friend that we greatly regretted Sir H. Rawlinson
would not continue in the mission at Teheran; but his re-
tirement was his own act, and in no degree arose from any
wish or suggestion of her Majesty's Government. He was
of all men the one who I should say was best qualified to
perform successfully the duties of British Minister at that
Court; and he succeeded in acquiring the goodwill of the
Shah in a manner in which no other British Minister has
been able to acquire it. It is, therefore, a great misfor-
tune that he should have felt it his duty to retire ; but his
retirement, as far as is alleged in his communications to
the Government, is founded on the circumstance that
that mission is transferred from the Indian Government
to the Foreign-office. We thought that, considering our
relations with Persia are so mixed up with our relations
with Russia, Turkey, and the other Powers of Europe,
it was exceedingly inconvenient that communications from
Persia should come through the India-office and not direct
to the department which alone has cognizance of our rela-
tions with other Powers. (Hear.) With regard to the in-
terference of Russia there has always been a great desire to
establish in Persia a superior influence to that of any other
Power, and I believe that some communications, such as
my hon. friend implies,
_have passed between the two Go-
vernments with regard to the expedition of the Shah against
the Turcoman territory. But I am bound to say that in
our opinion the nature and extent of the expedition which
the Shah was about to take was beyond what we thought
was for his real interests. It is our opinion, and that of
those by whom our judgment is guided, that the expedition
proposed is beyond the range at which the Shah can use-
fully establish a permanent occupation, and that he will do
much better to content himself with operations of a more
limited character. (Hear) I may say that our relations
with Persia are of a mos. satisfactory kind. The recollec-
tion of former differences has entirely been effaced. There is
nothing now but the most cordial understanding, founded
on the conviction on the part of the Shah that it is our wish
and our policy that Persia should be independent and pros-
perous. (Cheers.)

Mr. D . GRIFFITH thought the Government had been
inactive for two months on the question of Savoy in the early
part of the session, but acquitted them of any further de-

inquency.

An Hon. Member drew the Speaker's attention to the fact
that there were not 40 members present. The right hon.
gentleman proceeded to count, and there being but 23 mem-
bers present,
The house then adjourned.

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LONDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG,
of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun :Haw, No. 112,
Strand, in tho Precinct of the Savoy, is the county
Middlesex, Sattirday, August 26, 1860.