The Sun.
London, England, 1860-08-03 00:00:00

To reject a motion which will at a moderate expense lay the
foundation for making a great accession to our means of
defence will be a misfortune which I hope will not happen.
(Cheers, and cries of Divide.)
Sir M. PETO rose amidst cries of "Divide." He would
only detain the house for a short while. He felt that the
committee was not in a position to deal with this question.
He objected altogether to the land defences recommended in
the report of the commissioners. The hon. gentleman then
said that, referring to Sebastopol, it was clear that the
earthworks kept the enemy at bay for a long time. Now,
were the Governmevt justified in coming to the country to
erect fortifications to oppose an invasion which could not
take place without notice to us.
The question was then put, and the committee divided,
when there appeared :
For the motion
Against it
39
Majority —229
The CHAIRMAN then put the resolution.
Mr. BRIGHT said that in lookingover the report of the
commission he found no reasonable excuse for the fortifica-
tions at Dover and Portland. He hoped the money in-
tended for these places would be saved to the country.
There were some other points upon which the house should
have fuller information. Nothing was said as to what wa
to be dote at Cannock Chase, or how much money was to
be expended there. Two or three noble families were to be
benefited, and the house should look upon the whole pro-
ceeding with a vigilant eye. He hoped the Government
would be as economical as possible.
Lord PALMERSTON said that Dover was the nearest
point to the coast of France, and having a harbour there,
it was necessary to prevent an enemy seizing it and using
it for his own advantage. As to Portland, nothing would
be done except to complete works already sanctioned by
Parliament. As to Cannock Chase, that was only one of six
or seven places that had been mentioned. It was desirable
to have in a central position a quantity of stores in the event
of Woolwich being taken.
Mr. BRIUHT wished to know whether this central depot
was to be an entirely new establishment, or merely to hold
a portion of stores from Woolwich. They ought to know
what sum the proposed new depot would Cost them. It
might run up to millions, and they ought to have infornan-
tion fairly laid before them.

Mr. MONSELL said although he believed it would not
be proper to move an amendment to .the resolution in itg
present stage, it would not be out of order to move an addi-
tion. From what he had heard, he believed that although
the majority of the commission were of opinion that it was
most desirable to construct works for the defence of their
seaboard, they had not said one word on the subject of
their land defences in the interior of the country, and, as
far as he recollected, there was not even a suggestion from
the commission to put those inland places in a state of de.
fence. Now, so far as he knew anything of the question, the
artillery was the branch of the service which was best ac-
quainted with that part of their defences ; and yet, strange
to say, there was but one artillery officer upon the commis'
sion ; and although there were experienced artillery officer%
present during the inquiry, not one question had been put
to them on the subject of their inland defences. Floating
batteries formed a part of the subject in the consideration
of their defences, and upon them the opinion of experienced
naval officers was taken. The addition which he proposed
to move to be made to the resolution was, that, " In the
absence of all engineering and artillery information, it wag
not expedient to incur any extraordinary expenditure in the
permanent construction of works on Portsdown-hill."
Sir MORTON PETO was desirous to know whether it
was the intention of Government, before they proceeded
to establish a central arsenal at Cannock Chase, to give the
house and country their opinion what the amount of the eati•
mate for such a work would be.
Mr. NEWDEGATE thought it of great importance.that
the fortifications of their seaboard should be carried outwith
the least possible delay. With respect to the defence of their
seaboard, there was no doubt they should not neglect that;
but with regard to the establishment of a great central
arsenal in England, that did not appear to-him to be nacos'
sary. If invasion were to take place, he thought London
would be the first place to be attacked, and that should not
be lost sight of.
Mr. V. SCULLY very much coincided in what had been
expressed by the hon. member (Mr. Monsell). He (lR'
Scully) had given an honest and independent vote in stir'
port of the resolution of the noble lord, and his only difficult,
in making up his mind was as to the establishment of a great
central arsenal. Their best means of reliance in case of IZ'
vasion would, in his opinion, be upon their railway meant
of communication and their telegraphic means, and with
regard to the former, if hon. members would do as he ilea
done, furnish themselves with Bradshaw's map—(laughter)
—they would there find the best and most valuable infer'
mation on the subject.
Mr. S. HERBERT said the Government could not se:
cept the proposal to exclude from the list the works at
Portsdown-hill, which were supported by high military et?
thorities, including Sir J. Burgoyne himself, all of whorl
especially recommended that Portsdown-hill should be f°l;
tified. With respect to Cannock Chase, the site was not
yet decided, but it was important that we should not have
bewsket, as now at Woolwich; but ha
thought that Woolwich would be an arsenal of 153110, and
Cannock Chase of reserve stores.
Mr. BRIGHT said the right hon. gentleman had not
answered one question—what was to be the cost and whet
the size of these works ? It might not be necessary to have
any fortifications at all is the heart of a manufacturing die'
trict. Was the fortress there to be a defence against foreign
enemies, or against the political liberties of the country
If he had not that information, he should move that gr•
Massey leave the chair until the information was given.
Lord PALMERSTON said that nothing could be further
from the intention of the Government than wishing for
such a purpose as that supposed by the hon. member.
reserve for military stores was most desirable, but as yet
the Government had not decided upon the place, and could
not give the information required at present.
Mr. OSBORNE supported the addition to the resolution
which had been moved by the right hon. member for Lilo"'
rick. Sir F. Smith had told them that night that the works
at Portsdown-hill were totally unnecessary, and he Pre'
tested against any expenditure on these works.
After some further discussion the committee divided ell
the amendment declaring it inexpedient to proceed wall'
out further information, with the works at PortsdoWS'
hill.

Ayes 37
Noes 165
Majority —l2B

Mr. BRIGHT again urged upon the Government the
necessity for showing the house that the Government knot
the'r own mind on the subject. If not, let the matter
posponed until next session.

Lord PALMERSTON was desirous of giving all thy in'
formation in his power, but as yet no site had been decide
upon, though several had been suggested, and it was there'
fore premature to state anything further on the subject,
Afterwards, when the plans were more matured, the Go'
vernment would give all the information required as far 93
in their power. The great object was to have a great de'
posit of stores at some point less accessable than
wich. (Hear, hear.)

The resolution was then agreed to and reported.
BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS BILL.
The Lords' amendments on this bill were considered and
agreed to.

REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, &c. (SCOTLAND)

BILL.
The amendment of the Lords on this bill were also con'
sidered and agreed to.
The other business was disposed of, and the house that
adjourned at a quarter-past two o'clock. .

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Esq., of a son
BIRTHS.
BUCKLEY.—On the 2d inst., at 25, St. George's-equare,
Islosnny.—On the Ist inst., at 14 Roxburgh-terrace,llit"
A. Buckley,
verstock-hill, Mrs. F. It. Mosley, of a son.
the wife of A
TOLLEMACITE:—On the Ist inst., at 1, Hyde-park-place
/v., the wife of Arthur Lionel Tollemaehe, Esq of 16
son.

MARRIAGES.
MUSPIA.TT—NEALE.—On the Ist inst., at Rainhill, Lan'
casbire, Dr. Sheridan Muspratt, M.D., Professor of Cho"
mistry, Liverpool, to Anne, eldest daughter of the late
John Neale, Esq., of the same place.
DOXAT— RATTRA.Y.—At St. Marylebone, Charles Dozatt
Esq., of 42, Gloster-square, to Rosalie Sydney, the mil/
daughter of Vice-Admiral Rattray.