The Sun.
London, England, 1856-07-15 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TITESDAY EVENING-; JUILAY 15, 1856:

LATEST NEWS.

TOTAL EVACUATION OF THE

CRIMEA.

The following telegraphic message has this day

been received at the Admiralty from Admiral Grey,

at Constantinople, 14th July, 1856 :

" Banshee has arrived, with Admiral Fremantle.

Every person belonging to the army had embarked,
and all the ships had sailed from the Crimea on
Saturday evening, except Leander and Gladiator.
" Gale has been blowing strong from the south-
west for the last three days."

BERLIN, JULY 12.

The Grand Duke Michael of Russia has been
betrothed at Wildbad to Princesa Cecily, youngest
sister of the Prince Regent of Baden.

MARSEILLES, MONDAY.

The Sinai has arrived with advices from Con-
stantinople of the 7th, and from the Crimea of
the sth inst.

The English steam-frigate Valorous, which left
Kamiesh on the 2d, has arrived with General
'Windham, his staff, and 140 English military

passengers.

The frigate Canada has also come in from the

Crimea.

MADRID, MONDAY.

Espartero has tendered his resignation, and

was about to leave for Logrono.

General O'Donnell is appointed President of
the Council ; Rio Rosas, Minister of the Interior;
Rosde Olano, Marine ; Pastor Diaz, Foreign Af-
fairs ; and Cantero, Finance.

it was thought that General O'Donnell would

disarm the National Guard.

The Gazette publishes a new law on the doing

away with the sinking fund. In several towns
of Badajoz and Estramadura disorders have

broken out and been put down. The cholera
still continues to prevail in Seville, but has not

appeared at Cadiz, as was reported.

FRANCE•

PARIS, MONDAY.
The Moniteur publishes a decree, founded on a
report from the Minister of Marine, giving an al-
ranee to sailors who shall have served for more
dance
six years in the imperial navy in addition to
half-pay to which they may be entitled.
There is a report current in high quarters, that
the death of M. Fortoul will produce a division of
the Ministerial Departments.
It is said that a dignitary of the Catholic Church
will be made Minister of Worship, and that Public
Instruction will be a separate department.
"For some days past," says the Semaphore of
" workmen have been employed in the
Aildes des Ca urines and n. Meilha in arranging
the tables for the grand banquet to be given by
the town to Marshal Pelissier and, the troops who
accompany him on his return. The arrival of the
Marshal will, it is expected, take place between the
18th and 20th inst."
The English transport Birkenhead, which left
K.amiesh at the latter end of June with 200 men
and 20 officers of the 40th regiment and of the
Light Dragoors of the Imperial Guard, together
with the horses of the latter, was obliged from
!ant of water to put into Cagliari, in the island of
Sardinia. There Colonel Gozani di Treville, of
'the Sardinian army, commanding the place, and
the officers of the 7th Piedmontese regiment, gave
a most cordial reception to the French officers, and
after showing them the principal military establish-
laleets, entertained them at a grand banquet.
"A letter from Goree of June 27," says the
-rays, "announces an important fact for the French
Settlements at Senegal. Mohammed-el-Aabib, King
of the Trarzas, who has always been worsted in the
Various expeditions which the French have directed.
against him, has just sued for peace: The submis-
sion of the Trarzas will insure to the French the
-tranquil possession of the countries situated to the
north of the Senegal."
BOURSE, July 14.—The following were the last
'quotations : _

End of Month.
—f. —o.
71 40

Cash. fr. a.
ii per Cents 94
-3 per Cents 7l 10
New Loan 7l 10
tank Shares 4,150 Roman
Credit Mobilier 1,557 50 Austrian p
Ilelgian Fives ...... .. 98 Spanish Threes
Piedraontese(s)...... HOMO Debt ...."."

RAILWAYS—YOB CASK.
fr. C
if. c.
thleana . ....
ortlwrn
Lyons
.......... _ .„, 1,440 --- New Ditto
Mediterranean 1,835 Grand Central
Lyons Geneva BO7 50 Teste
Ce tte .................. 772 50 Austrian Coro. 865

A letter from Vienna of the 10th, in the German
Journal of Frankfort, says :—" Count Buol has
renounced his idea of passing part of the summer
in the country, in consequence of the multiplicity
of business, Count Strogonoff, attached to the
bYtuur,,,sn Embassy ak Vienna, has left for St. Peters-
The same letter says :—‘‘ It appears from
the investigation instituted by the orders of the
Emperor of Austria into the affair of Giurgevo,
that it is the captain of the Austrian vessel who
was most culpable in the matter, for no regulation
or law exists authorising an Austrian officer to
Punish a foreign soldier bcause he refused to pay
him military honours. As soon as Gen. Coronini
heard of the decision of the commission, he imme-
diately ordered the captain of the vessel to be
brought before a court-martial."
A letter dated Vienna, July 9, says—Prince
Petrulla, the Neapolitian Minister has recently had
several conferences with Count Buol, and it has
transpired that the King of Naples is not more in-
clined to attend to the counsels of Austria than to
the reinOnstrances of the Western Powers. It has
been stated by some of the foreign papers that the
Neapolitan Government is encouraged by Austria
to resist the demands made by England and
Prance ; but such is not the case. The Imperial
Cabinet, is of opinion that the Western Powers
have no right to force the King of Naples to make
any internal changes ; but it is a patent fact that
it has given his Majesty more good advice than
has proved palatable.

PRUSSIA.
A letter from Berlin the Cologne Gazette says :
" The journey of Queen Victoria to this capital in
the month of September become 3 more and more
Probable, although not yet definitively decided on.
The Princess Royal, in conformity with etiquette,
will not accompany the Queen."

TURKEY.
CONSTANTINOPLE, July 3.—Aali Pasha has
again resumed his functions as Grand Vizier, and
liehmed Kepresli, the Kaimakan, his former post
as President of the Tanziniat. Thus things re-
main for the present.
A new feature has shown itself in the question
of the Principalities. The project of the removal
of the Prince, and the appointment of Alexander
Ghika and M. Balch as Kaimakans for Wal-
lachia and Moldavia, was too favourable
to the wishes of the Principalities, or
rather too unfavourable to interests which have
strong supporters in the Turkish Ministry, to pass
without opposition. This opposition has shown
itself. The idea of the nomination of Kaimakans
is still kept up, but the persons proposed in the
first instance for the post have been changed, and
M. Jean Mario, the present iNliniAer of the Inte-
rior, is proposed for Wallachia. No objection is
raised against M. Balch for 'Moldavia.

ROYAL SURREY GARDENS.—The grand inauguration
festival for the opening of the colossal concert-hall took
place this afternoon. The proceedings commenced at
2 o'clock by the performance of the national anthem by
a chorus of up wards of 1,000 voices, the solo parts being
7, sung by Madame Madame Clare Novello,
'-'4oarne Rudersdnrff, Miss Dolby, Mr. Sims Reeves,
and Mx. Weiss. The effect produced was magnificent
in the extreme. At the termination of the anthem the
old hundredth psalm was sung under the direction of
Dr. Wesley ; and Handel's oratorio, "The Messiah,"
was also to be performed. The hour at which the festival
)Inmenced precludes giving a lengthened Lotice to-day.
The attendance of company was exceedingly great, and
the appearmce of the new yousic•liall, crowded with
a brilliant and fashionable ni,l.ence, was of surpassing
I,4'andeur. The arrangements for the accommodation
nt the company were complete and although a much
1 a gsr company assembled than had been calculated upon,
not the least inconvenience was occasioned to any person
resent.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

11.0IISE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
shortly before five o'clock.

i note--I beg your lorJships to mark the nature of
the explanation and the answer which I received.
It wag said that the King of Naples had un-
dertaken a. journey to a place some few miles from
his metropolis, and that ha had not been able to tend
an answer. On a subject so grave and so important,
such a reply was mere trifling, a mockery, and an insult.
It was not very unlike the course which had been pur-
sued with regard to an amnesty, to Which I directed the
attention of my noble friend the other night. lam
told, and uy noble friend will let ine know if I am
right, that within the last two or three days an answer
has been received from the King of Naples. Am I right
in that stateinent ? (Lord Clarendon intimated assent.)
I see that ivy noble friend 'assents. I thank him for
doing so, as that will lead to another question—(" hear,
hear," and laughter)—and that is, is that answer satis-
factory ? (Hear, hear.) lam told that it is extremely
the reverse. I ant told, in the first place, that the King
of Naples denies the right of this country to interfere in
the affairs of his kingdom, and not only that, but that he
positively refuses to give any explanation or reply to the
remonstrance addressed to him. I ask my noble friend
if that is in substance the answer to the important

communication made to the King of Naples ? My
noble friend makes no sign. I ask him if he will lay
the papers on the table in the course of the discussion
this evening, so that we may have an opportunity of
seeing the nature of that communication ? There is one
thing that strikes me as singular. There is no country
more open to the power of England than the kingdom
of Naples. If the Government of Naples has set at de-
fiance our remonstrances, what is the interpretation I
am to put on that fact I I can draW but one conclusion,
and that is that there is a feeling in Naples that there is
some backwardness and luke warmness on the part of
France to co-operate with us-to attain the objects we
have in view. This, then, is the state to which we are
reduced ; that we threaten a foreign Government, de-

Glaring that its conduct is infarnons and atrocious, and
that we require it to be changed ; they refuse to liAten
to our rern'nstrances, and we sit quietly down and

take no further. steps. What, tben, has become
of the power and the prestige of England ? (Hear,
hear.) There is another subject to which I wish to
direct the attention of your lordships. I mean the
occupation of a great part of Italy by Austria. That bite
continued for seven years, and the country so occupied
is placed in a state of siege and under martial law. I
need not in an assembly of Englishmen dilate on such a
state of things, as a country occupied by foreign military
forces. Of all the instruments of arbitrary power the
most powerful is the exercise of arbitrary imprisonment.
In Italy, upon bare suspicion, numbers of persons are
thrown into prison. When we talk of prisons, we, as
Englishmen, have little idea of what an Italian prison is.
We form a notion of a well-regulated, well-ventilated
establishment, visited by magistrates, and placed under
the most careful and responsible superintendence. But in
Italy prisons are nothing better than loathsome dun-
geons, and it is in these that men of birth and education
are imprisoned, on mere suspicion, as if they were the
worst malefactors. Such is the state ofltaly. Occaionally
to be sure, there is a show of trial; but what species of
trial is adopted ? The trial is conducted by military
tribunals, unaccompanied by any form or rule of law,
and regulated only by the directions of those who con-
duct the proileedings. What is the result? The result is,
Jam told, thatsince the Austrians have been in possession
of the Legations 200 persons have been shot and 2,000
have been eeht into exile. There isanother country of Italy
which has also attracted much attention=4 allude to
Parma. There has been a great increase to the military
force of Austria in that duchy. Piacenza was originally
assigned as the plaoefor the armed occupation of Austria,
but that place: has long become much too small to hold
the forces she has sent into that duchy. A contest has
arisen between these invaders and the government of
that country. The government insisted that accused per-
eons should have their trials before the ordinary tribu-
nals. What say the Austrians? They say that these per.
sons shall be tried by courts-martial, composed of fo-
reigners ; and which party will obtain the verdict it is
impossible to say. Every one who is attached to the prin-
ciples of freedom. and fair dealing, and of justice, must
wish that all such persons should be tried by the ordi-
nary tri iunals. But it is a melancholy feet that before
these transactions occurred the Austrians had seized a
great many of the persons in question, and transferred
them to the dungeons of Austria, there to lie until they
should be tried by military tribunals, While such is the
state of things in Italy it is the duty of the Government
of this country to do all they can to support and assist
those peoples; and yet, although this contest has been
going on for a long time, it is only a few days ago since
our ambassador at Florence arrived at Parma. • Whe-
ther any• great advantage will be derived from his pre-
sence I will not pretend to say ; but I can only say that
if it is intenchd.that he shall give his support to the
people of the duchy against the Austrians,. it is also
rumoured that he is very much under the influence of
Austria. I now come to another part of the subject—
I allude to the kingdom of Sardinia. Every English-
man must feel, the greatest possible interest in the
well-being and prosperity of that country. We have be-
come united by a community of institutions and by a
brotherhood in the great struggle in which we have
recently been engaged. It has been supposed or assumed
that Italy is not fitted for constitutional- government.
The state of Sardinia is a striking instance of the errone
ousness of that doctrine. That state alone struggling
against the greatest difficulties has succeeded in esta-
blishing constitutional government, and in preserving it
by the exercise of great firmness, moderation, and pa-
tience ; and I am sure that your lordships must all feel
anxious that nothing should happen to impair the advan-
tages, which she derives from that constitution. No one
can, however, look on the state of things in Sardinia
without the greatest anxiety. The Government of that
t subverto
ncwroei;
suct
hstna_
bhr yayo
hatred,
that
silLdaeio regardedeGmbmyob empire
rrArdreynu
Government
ierftinAht
Atjealousyiwywuotsbhu tu
considers.an d a er
thatio n
s, almosta r di
n ia
holds out'nclangerous examplileindiagto.bewthe neighbouring die-
h which h
e adoptedcv oe
ruwyl t tendh g
constitu-
tional tr
government parties of opposite opinioas will
be found, and in Turin there are, beside the sup-
porters of the constitution, the radical party, the ultra-
montane party and the most powerful and active of all,
the priesthood. These parties are all combined in a for-
midable opposition to the Government. Notwithstand-
ing this, the great body of the people of the country are
happy as they are, and give their support to the Govern-
ment. But the danger of Sardinia is not confined to the
intrigues of Austria in Piedmont, but there are other
dangers with which she has to contend. The least ac-
cident might cause circumstances to arise which might
bring destruction upon Piedmont. There are great
armies on the frontier which are being daily augmented;
and this has caused Piedmont to keep up armies larger
and more expensive than she can well afford to support,
read she is obliged to press hard on her finances to main-
tain armies to defend themselves against the multitudi-
nous armies which surround her. I would impress
upon the Government the necessity of giving the
strongest moral support to the Government of Pied•
mont—(heir)—if the necessity for any, such emergency
should arise, of giving to that Government material
support. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.) We never can
desert that country without a violation of duty. Allow
me to point out that there is the most bitter feeling
in Austria against Piedmont. Such is the littleness
of the feeling that if it was a contest between women,
I should say that it was spite. (" Hear, hear," and
laughter.) If Your lordships will listen to me; will
give you a very plain history of the state of things in
the Milanese. By the law of that country every subject
can, with the consent of the Government, cast off his
allegiance, can quit the country, and become in every
respect a foreigner, and, like every other foreigner, is
allowed to hold property in the country. After certain
disturbances in Milan, many persons, entirely uncon-
nected with the disturbances, yet finding their residence
there uncomfortable, availed themselves of the general
licence to quit the country ; but, being warned, every
one of them obtained a special permission. Most of
them went to Piedmont, became subjects of the Sar-
dinian Government, were naturalised, and obtained
all the rights of citizenship in that country, and many
of them became members of the assembly. In con-
sequence of some suspicion which attached to them,
the 'property of those persons in -Milan was seques-
trated. No explanation was given as to the cause, but
the sequestration has continued, and that in spite
of the continual and formal remonstrances of the
Government of Piedmont. Having thus run through
and stated these different facts, let me now ask what
hope have the friends of Italy for her ? I think it right
to say that I am of opinion that there ought to be no
secret designs, no attempts at insurrection, that we must
abandon for the present any notion of a united Italy ;
and there must be no revolutionary movements. I be-
lieve that at present a united Italy is an impracticable
scheme. A revolutionary movement would be crushed by
the disciplined bands of Austria. Such is theadvice which
ought to be given by the real friends of Italy. I am told
that many well informed men in Italy entertain the most
moderate views ; they do not wish for any change in the
forms of governments, but they wish to obtain, and they
entitleda(tiraceee,ai and
a firm anti
Gvite them
oobatai obtain, an administration of jell-.
honest administration of civil affairs.
that, and I believe that the great
thTeus peopleeY
ma-
jority of the Italians will be content. It should be recol-
lected that when the French, in 13C,6, entered the Le-
gations they established the French code of laws, and a
fair and equitable administration of civil affairs ; and
the people were content, prosperous, and happy. We
know that in
when
were Leopold reigned
aud u
under
shappy.
Sardinia is prosperous and happy. We know,
Now,tcli
erafotsroeyo,:tw ehm
at will satisfy the Italians. I advise them,
therefore, not to attempt to disturb the form of govern-
ment in their different states, but by all moral means to
seek to obtain an impartial administration of justice,
and a good and regular administration of civil affairs.
There is only one way, however, in which this can be
obtained, and by that means it can be obtained with
facility. It must be done by the cordial co-operation
of France and England.. (Hear, hear.) Whether that
co-operation will be obtained I will not undertake to
say, If such a co-operation does occur, it will produce
the happiness hthaaPtPiirslethseairrid onlythe prosperity of the Italian people ;
hope. I trust that We shall have
some explanation on this point from my noble friend,
and some cause to think that such a hope may be
cherished. The Austrian rule iu Italy is carried on only
by means of her troops ; her only rule is that of force
and cmreion ; her principle is that of military and not
of civil government ; there is not one ray of liberality in
her whole systetn. For such a system to exist in a fo-
reign country supported by foreign bayonets is 'intoler-
able. ,TleA isintolerable to the Italians there is abun-
dant end neerwhelininenevidence. I have thought it my
duty to bring this interesting and impertant subject be-
fore your lordships, and the interest' I feel in it Must be
my excuse for having brought it forward. (Cheers.)
The Bail f CLARENDON—During the course of
the last two or three years it has been often my disa-
greeable duty to meet etatsments on foreign questions

which have been brought forward by my noble and
learned friend. His satements are always so powerful
and so lucid, that though my noble and learned friend
says he is speaking in m irresponsible position, I, can•
not help thinking thathe is in some degree responsible;
and though your lordeaips are always most indulgent
to those who sit on the ministerial benches with regard
to the production of pipers, yet I never rise to fol-
low my noble and learned friend without a keen sense of
the delicacy of my posit on. I feel this particularly now,
for so much has fallen from my noble friend which is im-
portant, so great an interest is felt in this country in all
that concerns Italy, so great is the desire to see her
emerge from the position to which she has been reduced
by had government, and that she should occupy the
place among nations to which she would have a right as
the consequence of judicious reforms, that I feel unusual
regret that I am not able to afford all the information of
which I am possessed, 07 to lay on the table any corres-
pondence which 'would snow what are the opinions of
her Majesty's Government, and the
.steps they have
taken to secure a better state of things in that country.
The correspondence is still incomplete, it is still going
on, and it may, perhaps, be some little time before any
expectation can be entertained of any result ? and there-
fore I can see nothing but injury to the negotiations
now uoing on by the production of the correspondence.
Their production must, among other things, put an
end to our friendly communications with the
powers which are joined with us. For we cannot im-
prove the condition of Italy by force, and we must en-
deavour to come to an understanding with the Govern-
ments from whom the improvement of the condition of
Italy must proceed. Many of the facts alluded to by my
noble and learned friend exhibit a state of things of long
standing, .flagrant abuses of authority, which are the ne•
cessary consequence of a corrupted and degraded society,
which can only be remedied by the governing powers,
and not solely by external pressure. I have endeavoured
to collect all the information with regard to the state of
Italy, and, separating it from all exaggeration and local
colouring, I em compelled to admit the difficulty of
bringing about a better state of things not only with re-
ference to the character of the Italians, but also with
reference to the circumstances in which they are unfor-
tuna•ely placed. I was glad to hear the admission of
nay noble and learned friend, that revolution, however
it might be momentarily successful, would not lay the
foundation of the future happiness and prosperity of
Italy. I hope the people of Italy will be too sagacious to
resort to means which will infallibly lead to ultimate
N otjaing has been done by her Majesty's Go-
vernment to countenance revolution, because it would
be both unjust and cruel to excite expectations which
cannot be realised or which we ourselves are not pre-
pared to realise. For if we leadthe people of Italy to ex-
pect aid from us, we should be bound to fulfil that expec-
tation. Though I admit with my noble and learnedfriend
that there are circumstances in which interference in the
affairs of foreign states is not only justifiable but an ob-
ligation which I hold to he as strong as any one can, yet
I hold it to be the general rule that interference in the
internal affairs of other states ought to be resorted to only
on the clearest grounds, and as the last resource. In this
spirit, and without any desire of promoting revolution,
or exciting false hopes, and with the view of laying the
foundations of reforms in the governments of Italy, and
causing the evacuation of that country by foreign troops
the matter was brought before the congress of Paris,
and it was thought that the initiative having been taken
by the plenipotentiary of France was a proof that the
Government of France desired to withdraw the French
troops from R one. I cannot but think with satisfaction
that this question witabroug,ht before the congressof. Paris
and this notwithstanding that it had been bitterly con-
demned in some quarters ; and I was sorry to hear my
noble aid learned friend express his regret that the mat-
ter had been brought before thecongress unless measures
of greater vigour had been adopted by the governments
which were represented there. I ant told that we had no
right to bring this matter before the congress at all;that
it was an attack on the independence of the states that
were not represented; that it was calculated to defeat the
object in view, and that the representatives of the govern-
ments who brought it forward are responsible for all the
agitation which has since arisen. Bull say that we were
fairly entitled to bring this question forward, wheq all
the great Powers of Europe were engaged in the consi-
deration of the connection between all the different coun-
tries of Europe. When we were considering the qUestion
whether Turkey, Greece, and the Principalitiesshould not
be relieved from the presence of foreign troops, it was
impossible not to cast au eye on Italy, which had tor
years been occupied by foreign troops without
.any soffi-
oient pretext or justification. I will not enter any more
than my noble and learned friend has done into the'
causes which led to that occupation ; but we felt that
the occupation of a country by foreign troops could only
bejustified by urgent necessity, and that sufficient cause
ought to be shown for it. But we also felt that such -a
state of things could never arise except it may be more
convenient for a sovereign to rely on foreign bayonets
for support than t ) take trouble to render them inde-
pendent of that control by a beneficent rule, and the en-
couragement of reforms. That was theobject with which
I brought this matter before the congress, and we have
hal every reason to be satisfied with that course. I
must here take the opportunity of adverting to the con-
duct of nay noble friend Count Cavour in the con-
gress. The conduct of Count Cavour, the represen•
tative of a state the most deeply interested in the
result of the discussion, was moderate and digni-
fied, and calculated well to • sustain the reputa-
tion he had gained in the service of his country ; for it is
to him, more than to any other person, that Sardiniais
indebted for the establishment of her constitutional
liberty ; and he has done good-service to Italy by prov-
ing that Italians are not unfitted fur liberal institutions,
and that those institutions may be employed by. them
without any risk of their degenerating into excess. I feet
the most entire reliance on the spirit by which Cohnt
Cavour is actuated ; and I believe that the Austrian
Government itself is not more opposed to insurrection
in, Italy than he is,, or would du more to prevent it.:, It
is true, as my noble friend has said, that three months
have elapsed since that discussion in the congress took
place, and that as yet there are no visible results from
it But my noble friend must nut infer that nothing has
been done, or that as much has not been done as could
have been done in that time. I could have wished to
be able to say that the result of the communication
which has been made to, the Kieg of Naples has been
satisfactory. But I cannot say that it has. It is impos-
sible that two governments can be inure at variance as
to facts than her Majesty's Government and that of the
King of Naples. Remonstrances have been made to
the Kicg of Naples in the most friendly spirit, and we
stated to hint that in our views the existing state of
things was dangerous to the, stability of his throne as
well as to the interests of his country. We speCially
pointed out what my noble and learned friend has sug-
gested was one great difficulty, viz„ the establishment
of a better administration of justice—we recommended
a general amnesty for political offences, and such a sys-
tem of government as should rally round it the confi-
dence of the people—that systematic distrust and expul
Rion without trial or proof of guilt and unjust
persecution should cease—and, above all, that all per-
soue, irrespective of teeir political opinions, should have
a sufficient guarantee and security for their personal
liberty. (Hear.) Now, I think a bolder representation
of our disatislaction at the existing state of. things
could scarcely have been addressed by any Go-
vernment to another. (Hear, hear.) It is true
that we last week received an answer to that repre-
sentation ; but not yet having any knowledge of the
answer which has bean made known to the French Go-
vernment, not having yet been able to confer with the
Government of the Emperor of the Frenchand I hope
1 shall not bring the Government of Prance under the
censure of my noble and learned friend by saying that
the Government is at this time absent from Paris, and
therefore no answers can be given at the moment—.
(hear and a laugh)—until we had a-communication with
the French Government, and determined, in cenjunc-
tion with them, what is the course which under the
aircumetances it may be necessary to pursue; I think it
would be better not to lay upon the table the note we .
have received from Naples, and to which my noble and
learned friend has alluded. And withregaed.io the
nature of the answer, I think I shall best perform my
duty on this occasion by simply confining myself to the
to be
proa whic(hHea basr, h beene
given a r .)
general statement e n
satisfactoryth at it i s impossiblenr less forind ianynat answerindicative
e
f
future improvement
thanesentatthire
nt.
But, my lords, the question of reform in the Pontifical
states, and the withdrawal of the foreign armies from
those states, has been forced upon the consideration of
tn
our
the powers principally interested in the matter, and has,
I must say, been discussed in a manner and in a spirit
that promises the most satisfactory results. And though
my noble and learned friend may think me prejudiced in
saying so, I firinly believe, that the Austrian Government
does honestly desire to withdraw the troops from the
Papal territories, and I believe also that the French Go-
vernment arc equally desirous to withdraw their troops.
from those states ; and I further believe that that desire,.
so far from meeting with any opposition, is shared in and
approved by the Papal Goverutueut itself. If, then, it
be true, as I have every reason to think it is, that that
desire is sincere on the part of the three powers princi-
pally concerned, I cannot imagine that any very long
time will elapse before it is carried into effect, and those
precautions are taken which I am sure my noble and
learned friend will admit to be necessary after so pro-
tracted a foreign occupation, in order to prevent a recur-
rence of those disasters which first occasioned that, occu-
pation, and which all must deplore. (Hear.) But, my
lords, those precautions being taken, I see no reason
why the Papa • l states should riot be evacuated with as
little delay as possible, and with as little mischief as took
place in the case of Tuscany. ([dear, hear.) The events
of 1848 bad left fatal reminiscences in Tuscany, and may
have created some apprehension on the part of the go-
vernnient of that country ; hut I most say that it is much
to the credit of the Grand Duke that he determined to
rely for support up-in his own people only. Accordingly
•
be requested the withdrawal of the Austrian troops, and,
as your lordships must be aware, the last Austrian
soldier has left the Tuscan territory without the slightest
difficulty occurring.. (Hear, hear.) I see no reason why
this should not serve as an example to be followed
by all the Italian states. (Hear.) But the fact is
that the experiment of confiding in the Italian people
has never been tried. Thoss excellent measures of
reform which the present Pope inaugurated, and which
were received with gratitude 'cor the people, were all
swept away by the torrent of retolution which broke out
in 1848; consequently those measures have not had a
fair trial. I hold in my hand—but I will not detain
your lordships by reading it—the Pope's proclamation
that preceded his return to Rome in 1849, in which the
foundation of a better administration of the judicial sys-
tem is directly and completely laid down. I believe

that if this part of the Pope's manifesto were carried
into execution, everything which my noble and learned
friend himself would require to insure the better ad-
ministration of justice would be accomplished. (Hear,
hear.) But, as I have said, my lords, as yet the exhibi-
tion of confidence in the Italian people has never been
attempted. There has never been tried a system of ad-
ministration founded on the policy of depending for secu-

rity on the affections of the people, and the determina-
tion to promote their welfare. The policy hitherto
adopted has always been the policy of fear, foundedspon
the expectation of immediate revolution, without any
attempt being made to analyse the cause of the fear,
or whether the apprehensions entertained by the Go-
vernment are justified or not. But, my lords, this is not
a natural state of things. It is not natural for men to re-
bel against their Government. Hatred of a Government
that does all in its power to secure the welfare of its pee,-
ple was never a national feeling. I am convinced that
the people of Italy are as accessible to kindness as those
of other countries. It will not be found that they have
any objection to have their wrongs redressed, or that
they are more difficult to govern than other people, if
their rulers will but attempt the work of reform in good
faith and in good earnest, and under a different sense of
the responsibility which attaches to them thAn they have
hitherto shown. Ido not know that any object of prac-
tical utility would be attained by any attempts to fol-
low my noble and learned friend further through the
various topics touched upon in his speech. He has
himself pointed out some of the great difficulties
that must attend any interference on our part—he has
stated in plain terms the difficulty we should have to
encounter in acting alone in such a case, and he has also
stated in plain terms why it is necessary that the pres-
sure should come froM France and England together ;
and I believe that until we can apply that joint pressure
in all its force we shall not obtain the result we all de-
sire. I can only add that the question of I, aly--the
question of the amelioration of the condition of the Italian
peoples-her Majesty's Government have as much at
heart as the Parliament or the people of this country,
and that in every way they can, by their good offices, by
all the camel influence, and by all the efforts they can
use, they will endeavour to effect its acC4mplishinent.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE denounced the po-
licy he understood to have been enunciated by his noble
friend, that under no circumstances could the applica-
tion of force be justified in Italian affairs.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE (Lord Clarendon
having left the house) intimated dissent.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE was happy to find
that he had misunderstood the noble lord, and that it was
admitted that circumstances might arise in which the
'application of actual force might become necessary. He
trusted that no attempts would be made to excite revo-
lution. in Italy, which could only result in faction and
bloodshed. When it was said that there must be no
armed intervention, be wanted to know what it was that
maintained the King of Naples on the throne at this
moment? Was it not well known that if to-morrow
there was an outbreak at Naples against the reigning
monarch, an Austrian army would be brought to put it
down ! He spoke without Government responsibility,
and he might therefore speak openly. Let there be
open speaking in the British Parliament, for the opinion
expressed there, when open speaking was prohibited in
every other country, might possibly haVe some weight.
There was no reason, he thought, why they should not
know the facts ' which had been reported to the Go-
vernment by our Minister at Panne. They ought to
be informed of the grounds upon which Austria had
taken military possession of that duchy, and held it in
direct opposition to the treaty of 1815. There was
nothing but military occupation almost throughout the
whole land of Italy—foreign soldiers on the one hand,
and brigands on the other. In regard to the state of the
north of Italy we had a right to interfere, seeing that it
affected the balance of power in Europe ; but he ad-
mitted the difficulty of doing so without the concurrence
of the continental powers. His noble friend said all that
was required in the I alien States was good government;
but what hope was there ef good government while the
foreign oocupation continued, seeing that the foreign
troops were there to maintain bad government ? (Hear.)
He trusted that the Parliament of England would make
such a declaration of its sentiments as would prevent
any doubt or delusion as to the determination of this
country to exercise all her influence, and, if necessary,
her power, to prevent the occupation by foreign armies
of States that ought to be independent, for the purpose
of maintaining tyrannieal governments which were a dis-
grace to the age. (Hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, after expressing his
doubts of the practical utility "of continuing the
discussion, remarked that in the momentary absence of
his noble friend (Lord Clarendon)- he had ventured to
interrupt the noble 'marquis With a sign of dissent, when
he said that his noble friend had deClared th under no
circumstances could interference by-force in the affairs
of Italy be justified. He begged to remark that he con-
sidered the noble marquis bad been in -error as to what
fell from his noble friend. His noble friend limited his
statement to thie—that in the present state of things in
reference to Italy, and in the present state of negotia-
tions, the application of force would be inexpedient,
but his noble friend by no means laid it down as,an
absolute rule that the affairs of Italy were in that seas.
factory state that is was impossible under any circum-
stances force could be had recourse to. On the contrary,
what his noble friend did say, concurring with the noble
and learned lord at the table, was thatcircu instances might
arise under which interference by force might not only be
a right, but might absolutely become a duty. But before

force was resorted t 9 every other means must be exhaust-
ed, and they must take care :to have with them such
a general concurrence as would obviate any danger of a
disturbance of the general peace orEurope. They should
recollect, too, that they were, while discussing the pro-
priety of armed'interference, protesting against that in-
terference on the part of other powers. With regard to
Parma there was, he understood, an
,intention to with-
draw the Austrian troops, and, in the case of Rome, it
appeared that all parties were anxious to put an end to
till foreign occupation. Under these circumstances,' he
trusted the house would not allow themselves to be car-
ried away by their feelings so far as to commit any act
that might occasion difficulties and embarrassment in
carrying out that intention.
The subject then dropped,
REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL
This bill was read a third time and passed.
-PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill, and
clauses to 11 inclusive were agreed to.
On clause 12,

The Duke of ARGYLL defended the bill, and depre-
cated the opposition of his noble friend opposite (the
Duke of Buccleuch) who hal given notice of an amend-
ment, the object of which was to strike out this acd the
two succeeding clauses. He said the bill was a cotnpro-
mise, had been approved of by the majority of the Scotch
members of the House of Commons, and would afford
ficilities for religious instruction, in which all Protestant
dissenters might participate. He strongly urged upon
their lordships to accept the bill as a final settlement.

• The Duke of BErCdLEUCH then rose to move the
omission of clausel2, declaring that he had heard nothing
to alter hia opinion respecting the bill. If it had not
been that the salaries of schoolmasters had been reduced
one-third he believed that their lordships would never
have heard of this bill. He maintained that the present
school system of Scotland had the support and worked
for the benefit of the country at large. ITnrier these cir-
cumstances, and with the concurrence of many persons
whom he had consulted, he should move the omission of
this clause.

Lord PANMURE supported the clause. It it were
expunged from the bill he believed that the other house
would not accept the bill from their lordships' hands.
Such he thought was not an advisable po,ition for that
house to place itself in. He urged that though the main
object of the bill was to obviate the necessity of the tak-
ing of religious tests by schoolmasters, the God-fearing
character of the people of Scotland was such that they
would scout any system of education in which religion
did not play a most important part.
The Earl of HADDINGTON added a few words in
opposition to the clause. If the House of Commons de-
clined to receive the bill without this clause, upon that
house and upon the Government the responsibility of the
rejection would fall.
The committee divided
For the clause
Against it 5O
Majority

The clause was accordingly struck out of the bill.
Tile Duke of BUCCLEUCII moved an amendment in
clause 13 by omitting a portion of it, and inserting words
to require the schoolmasters to have a certificate from the
in.pector of Lhe Privy Council, or a diploma of the Edu•
cational Institute of Scotland ; but, alter some discus-
sion, he, on the suggestion of the Duke of Argyll, agreed
to withdraw the amendment, on the understanding that
the clause should be amended on bringing up the report.
The clause was then agreed to.
Clause 14 was struck out.

The other clauses were then agreed to.
The Duke of ARGYLL said, before the house re-
sumed, that, after the alterations which had been made
in the bill, it was no longer the bill of Government, and
the noble duke must henceforth take charge of the bill.
The Duke of BUCCLEUCH said the bill was brought
in under the responsibility of Government, and they
must not desert their own child.
The house then resumed.
The Oxford College Estates Bill passed through com-
mittee.
The Aldershot Camp Bill, the Drainage (Ireland)
Bill, the Grand Julies (Ireland) Bill, the Church Build-
ing Commission Bill, and the Dulwich College Bill, were
severally read a third time, and passed.
The Revenue Transfer of Charges. Bill, the Encumbered
Estates (Ireland) Bill, and the Court of Chancery (Ire-
land) Bill, were severally read a second time.
Their lordships then adjourned, at a quarter-past nine
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the Castle pouglas and
Dumfries Railway were considered and agreed to.
The Perth Burgh and Harbour Mil and the Boston,
Sleaford, and Midland Counties Railway Bill were con-
sidered and ordered to be read a third time;
MALT DUTY.

Mr. BASS moved for returns of the number of bushels
of malt brought to'charge in each of the three years end-
ing the sth or Ist of July, 1854-55, and 1856, as the
years may sad on one or other of those days ; of the
number of bushels of malt in stock on which additional
duty was charged in May 1854, and the amount received
therefrom ; of the number of bushels of malt in stock on
the sth day of July 1856, and the amount to be returned
thereon ; of the average price of barley for each of the
three years before named ; of the amount in " old duty"
charged on English hops for each of the before-named

three years; and of the number of cwts. of foreign hops
imported in each of the same three years.—Ordered.
Mr. BLACK moved for a return of the number of
bushels of malt in the hands of maltsters, brewers, vic-
tuallers, dealers, or in the hands of any other person,
for which there has been claimed the repayment of the
war duty of is. 31d. per bushel, according to the pre-
visions of the act of 19 and 20 Victoria, chap. 34,
distinguishing the amount of money claimed by each
class respectively.—Ordered.