The Sun.
London, England, 1856-07-22 00:00:00

T.C.I.P,S..o.AVIA'.
_.,0, 1858,

six weeks was spent by the Court of Directors and the Board
of Control in consideration. At length, having regard to the
prudence and ability which Lord Dalhousie had exhibited
during his rule in India, her Majesty's Government deter-
mined to point out to him to some extent what they consi-
dered would be the best course to pursue, while at the same
time they left an ample discretion in his hands. Lord Dal-
housie's conduct proved that Government had been well jus-
tified in placing that c infidence in him, because the moment
that the power was conferred on the noble lord he took what
he (Mr. V. Smith) regarded as a most manly course. He
c tiled it a manly course, because it would re ally have savoured
only of hypocrisy to deal with it in any other way with that
unfortunate monarch—unfortunate from his own vices and
debaucheries. He (Mr. Smith) was very indifferent whe-
ther that transaction were designated as an annexation, an
acquisition, or a cession ; but he denied that the general
policy of the Government had been one of annexation, if
by that were meant the grasping of everything which came
within arm's reach. Such was not the annexation of
Oude. Men might approve the annexation of Oude and
condemn that of Pegue and Nagpore, for each case stood
upon distinctive features of its own. He had heard people
say that we had no more right to annex Oude than the
Emperor of Russia had to annex Turkey ; but Russia was
not responsible for what took place in Turkey, while we
were responsible for what occurred in Oude. For whatever
mischief happened within our ken in the East, and which
it was in our power to suppress, we were held to be liable;
and therefore every evil which existed in Oude to which
we could put an end was imputed to our charge. It would
not do to hold one principle at Calcutta and another at
Lucknow—to say that what waslgood in one place was bad
in another, or vice versa ; and he was perfectly prepared
therefore, whenever it should be questioned, to defend the
acquisition of Oude as a most important step, which' was
rendered necessary by the circumstances of the country.
As regarded the condition of the people of Oude since the
annexation of that province he would read to the house a
letter Ripon that subject from the Governor-General of
India, dated May 3,1856, in which it was stated—
" Oude remains perfectly tranquil. Some of the zemindars
holding armed forts, and among them the Thelsepore
Rajah, have availed themselves of the option given them
by General Outram, and have paid part of their arrears in
guns, which are taken at a valuation, although nothing in
the shape of coercion or threat has been used to make them
do so. The riots continue, as from the beginning, to show
the best proof of satisfaction and confidence, by flocking
back to tracts of country which were rapidly becoming de-
sert and jungle, owing to the population being driven away,
either by oppression practised on themselves, or by the
feuds and ravages of the zemindars in the neighbourhood. I
have no doubt this confidence will spread and increase with
the progress of our three years' temporary settlement, teach-
ing them, as it will, that their rent henceforward will be
fixed and moderate, and that everything beyond that rent
will be their own without fear or extortion."
Since he had last addressed the house upon the subject the
dynasty of the Rajah of Tanjore had become extinct, and
there had not appeared to be any necessity for founding a
new one. He would next proceed to state to the house
what had been the progress in domestic affairs in India
since last year. One of the moat important questions con-
nected with domestic progress in India, and one which ex-
cited the greatest attention in this country, was that of
railways, and he would shortly state what progress had
been made in that respect. " The East Indian Railway
has at present 121 miles open, and was in expectation of
opening to Rajmahal, a distance of 190 miles, by the end
of the present year. The Great Indian Peninsular Rail-
way was at present open as far as Caurpoolie, a distance of
90 miles from Bombay. The Madras line was ready to be
opened to Ascot, a distance of 70 miles. The Baroda
Railway Company had made great progress in staking
out and commencing their line towards Ahmedabad.
The Scinde Railway Company had been equally expe-
ditious in the works on their line towards Kurrachee.
The surveys for new lines now in progress or
about to be commenced were that of a line to
Nagpor, from the Great Indian Peninsular Railway
' Company's line on the north-eastern extension ;
that of an extension of the present Scinde line to Lahore ;
and that of a new line from Calcutta eastwards to Dacca.
The progress of these railways was of the very utmost im-
portance, and ought in every way to be encouraged. For
his own part he had seen with the greatest pleasure a pro-
posal which had been made a short- time back for estab-
lishing a railway in India without a guarantee from the
Government. The system of always requiring a guarantee
for works in India was in many respects a most unfortu-
nate one for that country, because it to a great extent
tended to discourage private enterprise. He was not pre-
pared to sanction any scheme which might be proposed,
simply because it had been proposed by private enterprise,
but every scheme which afforded fair prospect of advan-
tage ought to be, as far as possible, encouraged. Tho sub-
jeet next in point of attraction to the railways was the
telegraph, and its progress in India had been very curious.
The subject of the electric telegraph had been reported on
by Lord Dalhousie in his minute of February, 1856, from
which it appeared that the electric telegraph hid now been
in operation in India above a year, and the results were
most satisfactory. The construction of the lines commenced
in November, 1853, and up to February last 4,0.,0 miles had
been completed. The total cost of the work had been
upwards of 2,000,0001. sterling, or at the average rate of
about WI. a mile. The receipts during the past year hare
been upwards of 20,0001., and they had gone on increasing
every mouth. The estimated cost of working the line was
about 30,0001. a-year. The actual cash receipts, therefore,
even'in the first year, amounted to more than two-thirds of
the working expenses, while the charges for messages were
lower than en any other line in the world. Dr. O'Shaugh-
nessey, through whose exertions and superintendence this
great work had been carried out, stated that he had been
perfectly successful in establishing the direct transmission
of signals and messages between Agra and Bombay and be-
tween Agra and Peshawur—
" So that an answer is obtainable within two minutes from
ono end of this line to the other through 1,600 miles of line,
in which eight rivers are crossed by submerged cables of up-
wards of 40,000 feet in length."
The government of Chide was transferred to the East In-
dia Company on the 7th Feb. last. On the same (lay ope-
rations were commenced for putting down the telegraph
wire, and within 18 days a telegraph of 52 miles in length,
including a cable of 6,000 feet across the G 'nes, had been
substantially constructed and successfully worked. Dr.
O'Shaughnessey had been one of those who had taken a
must active part in the establishment of the telegraph in
'Anna, and several schemes proposed by that gentleman had
not yet been carried into effect. One of those proposals
' was to connect India with England, and that scheme, if
carried out, would enable him to obtain an answer from
Calcutta in six minutes and a-half. The condition of the
postal service in India had been much improved since last
year, and ho had every reason to believe that eventually
communication with India would be more rapid and would
be cheaper than with many of the other colonies of this
country. There was one other point to which ho wished
to refer—he alluded to the report of the Law Commission-
ers. The Law Commissioners had, in the third and
last year of their existence, furnished the house and the
country with a very able and valuable report. He had
been informed that he had given great, but he must say
unintentional, offence to some members of the commission
by sending that report to India. Now, the house would
bear in mind that a great deal must be done by the Legis-
lative Council, and the jealousy of that body was well
known. If, therefore, he had acted without their assistance
they would not have been favourably disposed towards his
plan ; but his object had been as much us possible to work
through that body, as being the only way fully to carry
out the views of the commissions. Some of the proposals
of the commissioners were, from their very nature, inca-
pable of any other but an Indian consummation.
In the adoption of this course he had been justified by the
opinion of the Governor-General, who said that to have
acted upon the report of this commission without trans-
mitting it to-India would have given the greatest offence
in that country. The Indian Government and the Legis-
lative Council would have thought themselves most con-
tumelieusly treated. One principal point was the amal-
gamation of the Sudder and Supreme Courts. This amal-
gamation, if compulsory, might have given great offence,
because, while the supreme courts were accustomed to ac-
cuse the Sadder courts of a want of law, the latter retorted
by accusing the supreme courts of knowing nothing of
India; and it was most desirable that, if possible, this
measure should be carried out with the assent of both
classes of courts. A patent law had been adopted in India,
and was waiting for the consideration and sanction of the
Court of Directors and of himself (Mr. V. Smith). One
of 'the matters on which the Government of India most
required amendment was the police, which was, in his
opinion, by no means in a satisfactory state. (Hear, hear.)
He had already, in speaking !of the Santal insurrection,
referred to the defects of the police, and he believed that
its faults were common to the whole of India. In Bombay
there Thad been established a new system, by which the
police would be placed under the immediate direction of
the Government ; and it was desirable that some experi-
ence should be obtained of the working of this system be-
fore any alteration was made in the police systems of the
other presidencies. The whole subject was, however,
under consideration of the noble lord who had recently
gone out to India as Governer-General. Another question
incident to this one of police was that of the torture—
(hear, bear)—the existence of which had been brought to
light by the meritorious exertions of his honourable friend
and colleague the Secretary of the Board of Control (Mr.
Danby Seymour). (Hear, hear.) He could assure the
house that everything which was possible was being
(lone for the eradication of this horrible system. It was
unworthy of any one connected with the Indian Go-
vernment to extenuate it—(hear, hear)—or to say that it
was not torture, but only bodily pain. All these things
wore utterly puerile and contemptible. (Hear) For him,
it was quite enough that revenue had been extorted by the
infliction of bodily pain. Lord Harris, the eminent Go-
vernor of Madras, was perfectly sensible of tie horrors of
this system, and had taken the greatest pains to suppress
it. His (Lord Harris's) opinion was that it to a great ex-
tent resulted from the high rate of assessments, and that
a readjustment of assessments would get rid of it. That,
however, must be a slow operation, but in the meantime
Lord Harris had set a careful watch upon this system, and
was prepared to punish with the severest penalties—for
there had -Undoubtedly been a want of severity in the pe-
nalties hitherto inflicted—and with dismissal from the
service of any person who was convicted of the infliction
of torture. The Court of Directors, among other instruc-
tions, sant out an order that an act should be passed for
the enforcement of severe penalties for this offence. The

,
law advisets thought that such an act would be web:3ss,
and that the only Way to suppreaa this evil was to-separate
the revenue from the poliice systpaie He ~ellreeV.,Seeith)
thotight that this world be an eecellent tneaaure to adopt,
bet it *AR one Vehicle Would involve consideratile eitpenee
and would require much consideration, because we should
have to decide whether we would establish an European
police or would trust wholly or in part to native officers.
He therefore could not help thinking that Lord Harris had
not done right in omitting to pass the act to which he had
referred. It was true that by regulations, adopted so late
as the years 1816 and 1819, very heavy penalties were ims
posed for acts of torture, but it was clear that these regus
lations had never been enforced, and he thought that the
passing of a new act *mild have more effect than the re-
newal of old ones. He could not help thinking that when
Lord Harris considered the matter he would see that if no
new act were passed the opinion would prevail that, as hi-
therto no notice had been taken of this system, so no atten-
tion was intended to be paid to it in future. It was to him
(Mr. V. Smith) most marvellous that successive Governor-
Generals, including among them a man of the greatest
vigour and assiduity, Lord Ellenborough, should have gone
out to India and returned without the slightest knowledge
of the existence of this system of torture. Ho could not
attribute it to any defect on their part, but must suppose
that it arose from some fault of the system that such a thing
should pass without being observed by them. He had been
blamed for the strength of the observations which he
made upon this subject last year ; but ho must say that he
considered Government responsible for what had occurred
under their rule. If they said they knew nothing about
it, that was as good as saying that they did not perform
the functions of governors. (Hear, hear.) The next
question to which he should call the attention of the house
was that of the introduction of an improved system of
education. A new system had been recommended by his
right hon. friend the late President of the Board of Control
(Sir C. Wood) in a despatch dated the 19th of July, 1854 ;
and measures had been taken to carry those recommenda-
tions into effect by the appointment of directors, inspec-
tors, and visitors of schools, the passing of rules for univer-
sities, the distribution of grants, and by other means.
In the north-western provinces a new class of schools
termed halkabunda (or circuit) had lately bees established
I under the auspices of Mr. Reid, the Director of Public in-
struction in those provinces ; these schools were spreading
rapidly over the country. The main cost of them was de-
frayed by the landed proprietors and cultivators by an assess-
ment, voluntarily contributed by themselves of 1 per cent.
on the Government revenue. Mr. Reid believed that, if
this subscription could be generally obtained, a school
might be established in every b 0 .s square miles of the country
with no expense to Government but that of supervision. 11l
the Bombay Presidency public libraries for the use of the
natives have now been established in eight differentdistricts
besides eight nativelibraries in the town of Bombay, which
contained English as well as vernacular works, and were
supported chiefly by local subscriptions. At Sholapore the
subscriptions for a library and anEnglish and Marhatta school
amounted to 2,700 r., besides books. At Satter& they were
1,200 r. Among the Government grants was one of 4,000 r.
given to the native students' " Literary and Scientific
Society" towards a building for a lecture-room, laboratory,
museum, and library, for which private subscriptions had
been raised amounting to 10,000 r. The members of the in-
stitution hold a meeting once a month for the transaction
of business and reading essays in English-once a fortnight
two meetings were held for a similar purpose in the verna-
cular. At these vernacular meetings large and interested
audiences assembled, to witness experiments and illustra-
tions of natural science, and to discuss questions bearing
on the moral and social improvement of the people. Seven
girls' schools, at present containing 450 children, are sup-
ported by the society, and two infant-schools were under
their superintendence. They already issued two monthly
vernacular publications, and had undertaken to pub-
lish a series of papers in Mahrattee and Guze-
rattee similar to " Chambers's Information for the
People." All this is the more remarkable as
coming from a native society, themselves having
experienced the benefits of education and desirous of dif-
fusing its advantages among their countrymen. This was
the progress which had been made by education in India.
It had not been so rapid as he could have wished, but at-
tention had been called to this by the Home Government,
and he hoped that the defect would soon be remedied by
the more active exertions of the local authorities. In re-
ferring to this subject, he must not omit to notice the con-
sequences which had resulted from the improvement of
education for the civil service in this country. He last
year stated the result of the first competitive examination
for employment in that service. It, was, no doubt, a mat-
ter of some regret that the number of candidates who had
presented themselves for examination this year was not so
large as it had been the year before, bat it was not to be
apprehended that thiecause of complaint would continue.
In looking back to the examinations of last year he rather
lamented the extreme severity of the tests applied. (Hear.)
He was bound in sincerity to admit that the questions put
to the candidates alarmed him for his own ignorance, and
he had been assured that many Cambridge students had
been very much disheartened by them. (Hear.) Except
in the case of the professor of Italian, whom he reap-
pointed, he had thought it advisable to select new ex-
aminers, and had been so fortunate as to obtain the ser-
vices of one very competent gentleman from Trinity Col-
lege, Dublin. The result of the examinations might be
thus stated : -The total number of candidates examined is
56, whereas last year it was 112 (just double the number).
The relative number of the candidates from the principal
Universities in 1856 and in 1855 are as follow :-From
Oxford in 1856, 10 ; in 1855, 19 ; from Cambridge, in
1856, 14 ; in 1855, 32 ; from London, in 1856, 3 ; in 1855,
4 ; from King's College, London, 1856, 6; in 1855, 3 ;
from other English schools, &c., in 1856, 4 • in 1855,
12 ; total English, in 1856, 37 '• in 1855, 70. From Edin-
burgh, in 1856, 1; in 1855, 3; from Aberdeen, in 1866,
2 ; in 1855, 5 ; from other Scotch colleges and schools, in
1855, 7 ; total Scotch, in 1856, 3; in 1855, 15. From
Dublin, in 1856, 8; in 1855, 14 ; from Cork, in 1856, 3; in
1855, 5; from Belfast, in 1856, 2; from Carlow, in 1856, 1;
from other Irish colleges, in 1855, 2; total Irish, in 1856,
14 ; in 1835, 21. From abroad, in 1855, 3 ; from at home
(private tuition), in 1856, 2 ; in 1855, 3-i.e., English cols
leges, kc., in 1856, 37; in 1855, 70; Scotch, in 1856, 3 ;
in 1855, 15; Irish, in 1856, 14 ; in 1855, 21; abroad, in
1855, 3; private tuition, in 1856, 2; in 1855, 3; total, in
1856, 56; in 18.55, 112. One or two particulars with re-
spect to the examinations might not be uninteresting. The
plan heretofore pursued contemplated two examinations-
the first, a general one; the second to take place after the
lapse of two or three years, an examination in law and the
Oriental languages. The system was established under the
sanction of Lord Ashburton, Mr. Macaulay, and Mr. Le-
fevro. It was excellent in theory, but when it was brought
to the test of practical experience the second examination
was seen to be surrounded with such difficulties that Mr.
Ma esulay had himself recommended that it should bo relin-
quished. (Hear, hear.) Strange as it might appear, it
was not less true that it was found almost impossible to
procure tho means for a sound legal education in this
country. The only substitute was a certificate attesting
that the candidate had attended a certain number of lec-
tures, but this was a very unsatisfactory expedient, for
such certificates did not vouch for the candidate's profi-
ciency, and were regarded merely as matters of routine.
The difficulty as regards Oriental languages was altnort as
great; and another obstacle arose on the question of resi-
dence, it being impossible to ascertain what became of the
candidates during the interval between the first and the
sec ma examination. Taking into consideration all the
I circumstances of the case, he determined that the better
course would be to give up the second examination altoge-
ther, and to send them out after they had undergone one
examination only. He had provided a professor of Arabic
and Senscrit, but it was a little discouraging to find that
not more than one candidate presented himself for exami-
nation in these abstruse studies. It was one of the princi-
ples on which Mr. Macaulay's minute was founded that in
conducting these examinations care should be taken not to
examine a candidate in anything which, in the event of
his being rejected, might be considered as lost time;
and very possibly it was the knowledge of that fact
which induced the candidates to believe that it would not
be necessary for them to " gat themselves up " in
Arabic and Sanscrit. (Hear.) With regard to the mode of
examining, ho had himself introduced what he deemed to
be a very important alteration-a vivel wee examination.
(Hear, hear.) The reason why he had d 4110 so was that he
had always been of opinion that such a method of exarni•
nation afforded a better test than any other of a man's
moral qualities-his courage, his readiness, his aptitude,
his self-possession. (Hoar.) Ho confessed that he was not
without his doubts as to whether the plan of competition
would furnish ally better guarantee for such qualities
than the old system afforded, but, at all events, there was
souse approach to a test in a vivel voce examination, and
therefore ho had adopted it. (Hear, hear.) He had at-
tende 1 one of those exteminations,and was struck with the
readiness and proficiency exhibited by the candidates.
Nor was his experience singuler. He was happy to say
that it was corroborated by the testimony of Mr. Dasent,
a gentleman of great abilities and profound attainments,
whose services he had been so fortunate as to secure for
the examination of candidates ! (Hear,) Mr. Dasent
had at first a strong prejudice against the practice of vied
voce examination, but he now admitted that it had worked
well, and its results were most satisfactory. In justifica-
tion of this statement he would lead the following extract
from a letter he had received from Mr. Dasent -

" I beg leave to inform you that, in my opinion, the re-
sult of the viva voce examination in English History has been
highly satisfactory. It gives me the greater pleasure to be
able to make this statement, because I was ono of those who
at first thought the amount of viva voce examination for the
Indian Civil service disproportionate to the paper-work. Out
of 54 candidates who answered at their numbers at the viva
voce examination I find that seven are classified in my notes
as 'very good' and have obtained 53 marks—The greatest
amount which lam enabled to give. Of the rest the great
majority are classified 'good' and 'fair,' averaging about 30
marks. Ten or 12 are indifferent,' with about 15 marks
each, and only three are marked bad,' and may be con-
sidered to have failo 1. I think this result is worthy of men-
tion, especially as the examination often led the candidate
into minute historical details in which no mere memoria
technica or cramming could have given them any assistance.
Of the very good 4, 25, and 45, were the beat." (Hear.)
And that last by the way was an Irishman. He confessed
that he was much gratified by the perusal of Mr. Dasont's
letter, for he regarded it as a most satisfactory statement,
coining from one who was well qualified to pronounce an
opinion on the subject. With respect to the general merits
of the competitive system it must be admitted that the
question assumed a different aspect in India and in Eng-
land. For his own part, he thought it was a mistake to
suppose that, as a general rule, the civil service in this
country opened a suitable field of exertion to men of high
ambition and proportionate ability. In India, on the con-
trary, it did open such a field. There able and ambitious
men were needed. The civil service was a fitting sphere for
them, and in it they were sure to rise to eminence. He
would not be understood, however, as concurring in the
opinion which a distinguished member of that house had
not hesitated to express—that patronage was " an odious
and a hurtful thing." He repudiated that sentiment alto-
gether, and rather favoured the doctrine of the right hon.
member for Buckinghanalhite—that patronage, well exer-
cised, was one of the noblest attributes of power. What
more delightful task could there be than to befriend merit
and to prevent talent from pining in obscurity? (Cheers.)
It so happened that during the _period he had held his
present office not a little patronage had passed through his
hands. He mentioned the fact for the sake of alluding to
a subject brought under his notice last year by the hon.
and learned member for Enniskillen (Mr. Whiteside), who
first had called attention to the fact that Irishmen were
totally excluded from the Indian bench. Finding this
statement to be correct, he deemed it his duty to rectify
so anomalous a state of things, and of three judgeships in
his gift he had presented two to as many members of the
Irish bar, and oue to an Irish gentleman. He had ap.
pointed two gentlemen on the board of directors as nomi-
nees for the Crown; but, though sensible of the distin-
guished merits and services of Sir G. Pollock, he had not
reappointed him, simply because it was the intention of
the Legislature that the office shonld be held only for a
stated period, and that it should not be peril to tted in
the same hands. le had nominated General Vi%ian for
one of the vacancies in the direction. He could not quit
this part of the subject without expressing the great satis-

Motion it bad adorded hire to engage for his own depart-
'Pent the services. of Fio distinguished ap: Indian admie
pistrator as Sir George Clerk. (Hear, hear.) He men-
tioned these feet*, to show that the dhtributinn of pa-
tronage, which had given rise to so much retilieig, did
not deeerie ell the re 'roadies :cast tip' it. Notting
lied been more gratifying 6 hien in all his Pnblic
life
than to be able to select for important sitn?,tiens
men with scarcely one of whom he had been persona:l/ at-.
quainted, but whose high qualie,;.l4onl promised to be of
the greatest service to India. (ifear, lite;ro H? felt
that he had already trespassed too long on the attotnign of
the house, and yet his remarks had been far too short to ae
justice to a qiieStldu of such magnitude. He had passed
hurriedly over topics which, if they ?idol fea,lated to matters
nearer home, might well have occupied weeks in their dis-
cussion. As it was, however, he had only to thank the
holies for the indulgence extended to him. The question
of the right government of India was, perhaps, one of the
most difficult problems that claimed solution. The time
had been when the rulers of that vast empire looked to
nothing but the amount of revenue which they Cottld est-
tract from its people. Since then, however, thank God,
a better day had dawned upon its many races and creeds,
whose governors wore now endeavouring to do something
for their social improvement. To interfere with their re-
ligion was to tread upon delicate ground—a course which
he should prefer to avoid. The proper mode of impror-
ing their religion was by improving their morality ; and
this could best be achieved by setting them an example
of inflexible honesty and good faith. This was the policy
which the Indian Government had to pursue ; and in that
policy he trusted they would be successful. As long as the
authority he now exercised was entrusted to him he should
strive to promote the welfare of the natives of India, to
whose interests he had been warmly attached from his ear-
heat tears. It had been observed by practical philosophers
that it would be a proud day for England when she re-
signed to the inhabitants of India, well educated, civilised,
and regenerated, the sway which she now held over them.
Such a result he could not anticipate that he should ever
live to see. If, however, it occurred in his time, he, for one,
should tremble for the consequences. His belief was that it
would be a proud day for England when, maintaining her
rule over this distant and populous empire, she could yet
say that to the utmost of her power she had advanced the
physical prosperity and elevated the moral and intellec-
tual character of the people of India—objects wholly over-
looked by their ancient dynasties. (Cheers.) The right
hon. gentleman concluded by moving a formal resolution,
embodying the result of the accounts given in his speech.
Sir E. PERRY said he had heard the statement of the
right hon. gentleman with great satisfaction. (Hear.) Hewes
sorry to say there were not many members in that house
who took groat interest in Indian affairs, and there cer-
tainly was not great encouragement for them to do so, for
they hardly ever brought forward a topic connected with
India but they were met by the Indian Minister with a
growl ; and they were all well aware that, whatever inte-
rest they took in Indian affairs, it would not gain them a
vote from their constituents. They had, however, no rea•
son to complain of the progress of Parliamentary opinion
respecting India during the present session. In the course
of that time several facts had been made plain to the
people of England respecting Indian affairs which would be
very useful. One was that the East India Company was
nothing more than a company of stockholders, having no
inherent power of government in themselves. Another,
that the Court of Directors was nothing but a paid depart-
ment of the Government, in fact, merely trustees for the
time being, while it had also been clearly established that
England was responsible for any deficiency which might
arias in the Indian revenue. (Hear, hear.) It had also
been satisfactorily proved, that the people of India were
so poor that a considerable portion of that revenue had, in
times past, been elicited by tortare, and from that fact
the impartial conclusion was drawn, that the Government
of India ought to be as careful and scrupulous in the ma-
nagement of its revenue as any other department of the
Government of this country. During the past session it
had been brought to the knowledge of the President of
the Board of Control, that he had it in his power to check
a fdportion of Indian expenditure, which had hitherto
figured as a considerable item. In many cases the Court
of Directors had engaged in disputed legal questions, with-
out the authority or sanction of the Board of Control, and
by doing so had lost immense sums of money. Many of
those cases they had thus engaged in were notoriously
bad. He need not refer to the Dyce Sombre case, which
was known to most people. But there was the case of the
Rajah of Coorg, who was deposed by the India Company
some twenty years ago, but who, having held shares in the
public funds of India, sued the Company for these after
he had been so deposed. The India Company said they
were entitled to hold these shares as booty of war ; but he
believed if the Government of this country had defended
the case under such a plea, that the people of England
would have indignantly repudiated their conduct. Yet
the India Company had gone into the case without the
sanction of the Board of Control, and it was going on at
this day. There was another case of the same class, that of
the Nawab of Surat, which had now come to an untimely
end, but in which he thought there was a great deal ofjustice.
In that case, instead of having their counsel, in the usual
way, to argue their case at the bar of that house, they spend
thousands of pounds in defending it. Another point to
which he wished to draw attention was as to whether the
East India Company had legally the power to grant large
pensions and make gratuities and charitable donations.
Up to 1833 they were in the position of a private corpora-
tion, with immense funds at their own disposal ; but since
that 'erica they were trustees, administering the revenues
of India for the Crown, and had no right to dispose of
those funds in any manner other than was provided for by
the act of 1E33. He next came to the statement which
the right hon. gentleman had made of the condition of the
finances of India, and in that he must say that it presented
a singular discrepancy with rather statements which had
been made to the house on that subject on former occa-
sions. In the first place, the statement of the right hon..
gentleman completely corroborated what he (Sir E. ferry).
had urged upon the house at an earlier period of the ses-
sion, that the heavy periodical deficit observable in the
financial accounts of the Indian Government was not attri-
butable to public works alone. It was stated in the ac-
counts for 1853.4 that the sum expended for public works
was two millions and a quarter sterling, nearly the whole
amount of the deficit ; but now it appeared that the whole
amount really expended in that year for public works was
only one noniron, while there had been a public works loan
of 2,725,000'. Under those circumstances there should
have been no deficiency whatever, but instead of that ho
found not only an apparent deficit of three millions, but
also a very largo deficit of several millions in the cash ba-
lances, which must be added to the former. Lord Dal-
housie bad spoken very cheerfully of the promising pros-
pecti of the Indian revenue, and had boasted of having
added by territorial acquisition during his tenure of office
no less than 4,000,000/. a-year to the annual income of
India. No doubt that was a most cheering statement ;
but when they came to look into it they found that he had
given only the gross receipts, without making any deduc-
tion for one item of charge for either civil or military go-
vernment, just as if a farmer were to boast of the return
of his wheat sold at market as net profit, without any
allowance for rent or cost of cultivation. Thus the Puujaub
was credited for one million and a-half, whereas it had been
proved in that house that there was an actual deficit in the
Put) eub revenue of 59,000/. a-year ; Sattara was credited
for 150,000/. a-year, there being really a deficit of 23,000..
Nagpore wasput down for 410,0001., when deducting charges
it ha.l bean shown that there was only 100,895/. available
income. In the same way the noble lord had talked of the
opium revenue having increased from 2,730,000/. in 1847
to 4,700,000/. in 1851, when it had really increased after
deducting damages to 2,975,0001. The right hon. gentle-
man had referred to the economical plans that were in con-
sideration as a means of improving the condition of the
finances of India, but though he (Sir E. Perry) was an
Indian reformer, ho urged the right hon. gentleman not to
imagine that it would be right economy to cut down the
emoluments of the civil service in India. The true method
would be by calling into their service the natives of the
country in larger proportion, giving them the principal
offices under European supervision, and so cutting down
the charges. The Indian Law Commissioners had applied
themselves diligently to the, improvement of legal process
an I procedure in India, recommending, first of all, the
amalgamation of the Queen's and Company's court-e with
a view to improving the administration of justice. The
result had, however, been, that the report of the commis-
sion had b Jen sent to India to be hauded about like Mr.
Maeaulay's criminal code. The Chief Justice Jervis, who
was a member of the commission, had declined to sign the
second and third reports of the commissioners, and he had
said that if he had thought that the labours of the com-
missioners were to be used as an excuse for postponing
legislation, he never would have been a member of the
commissiou. The honourable and learned gentleman then
proceeded to comment upon the annexation of Oude, and '
to contend that the responsibility of annexing that king-
dom did not rest with the late Governor-General, Lor
Dalhousie, but with the President of the Board of Control
and the Court of Directors. He concluded by regretting
the indifference of the leading statesmen of the country on
this subject. He believed the house, from the indifference
of hon. members, were not so forward on this subject as
the public out of doors. That was also a subject of regret,
because Parliament had never interfered without confer-
ring great benefits on India. He concluded by thanking
the house for listening to him so long and with so much
attention.
Sir JAMES W. HOGG said his hon. and learned friend
had concluded his speech by attacking the Court of Di-
rectors, and in reply he would confine himself with allud-
ing to the principal points. He had made a partial allu-
sion to the annexation of Oude. His belief was, that
the Government had acted wisely and justly in the an-
nexation of that kingdom. He very much doubted
whether the public were with his honourable friend (Sir
E. Perry) in this matter. They were deeply indebted to
Lord Dalhousie for his services on that occasion, and the
happiness and prosperity of the people were their reward.
It was true, there was a deficit, but that was owing to the
combination of the ordinary with the extraordinary charges
of annexation. Ho had no doubt, however, that in future
years there would be a surplus as soon as the necessity which
called for extraordinary charges was removed. He did not
contend that we ought to annex a country because of the bad
way in which it was governed, but the Government of India
were the virtual rulers of Oude by the treaty of 1801. They
were bound to get rid of the actual ruler of that country,
who had governed it in a manner most objectionable to the
people, and the people of Oude were exceedingly glad of the
removal of the King. Reference had been made to the re-
ports of the commissioners, who had sat in this country, in
respect to the courts of India; and he contended that the
Government had judged wisely in not founding any legislative
measures on these reports, until they had submitted them to
Indian legal authorities. The hon. gentleman said that much
of the expenditure in India had arisen from the erection of
new barracks. For the future the charge for repairs and
military works would appear as separate items. He would,
in reply to the hon. and learned gentleman who had just ad-
dressed the house, observe, that there was uo act of Parlia-
ment to give the Court of Directors the power to grant pen-
sions. That power was an inherent right of the governing
power. The act referred to only limited power. Therefore,
the Court of Directors in this particular was established by
the act which passed the Legislature in reference to the pen-
sion granted to Lord Hardinge. The reference made to the
conduct of the Court of Directors iu the case of the will of
Mr. Dyce Sombre was not justified by the circumstances of
the case, for the Court of Appeal fully sustained the conduct
of the Court of Directors in the matter.
Mr. HEADLAM said that the Indian Commission referred
to had made many valuable reports, but no advantage ha
arisen from them. No use had been made of the reports,
and the commission was brought to an end. The hon. and
learned gentleman then referred to the letters addressed
theto
the commissioners by Sir Charles Wood, and said, when
commissioners applied for an extension of their time, they
received a letter from the Secretary of the Board of Control,
informing them that it was not intended to apply for an act
of Parliament to continue their powers. Under these cir-
cumstances, it was likely that their past labours would be of
no avail, and it was no wonder they complained of the treat-
ment.they had received.
Mr. LOWE said, as one of the Indian Law Commissioners,
ho did not scruple to Say that they undertook their task with..

end to.
APee a few words in explanation from Sir J. \V.
HOGG,
Mr. OfIVAY said the charges brought against the direc-
tors of the East joule Company were of a. very grave nature
1-2 d le'ss than that of spending the resources of that great nationso-
of which; they Were the guardians, disregarding th! most
lemn treaties, and if not torturing, at least conniving at the
torture of the people ci,tltraitted to their charge. In 1854,
the directors of the East Iffilia Company spent upeogids cf
10,000', in law expenses ; in 185 had spent s', they spent 13,0001. inabout
law
expenses, and in 1856 it appeared they
10000/. As regarded Lord Dalhousie's administration, there
was too doubt that many of his acts were deserving. of the
highest approbation ; but there were some of his aA cts
re-
t
which he (Mr. Otwa-7) could not give his approval. s o
garded Oude, when they had made a solemn treaty with a
prince, however weak he might be, they wereoul boundave to re-
spect It, As regarded public works, they shd h s
mitted to them every year an account of those public works
Whieh Were remunerative and of those which were not remu-
nerative. It was disgraceful to see Sovereigns who sat upon
the Throne before the Homo of Hanover reduced to the po-
eition almost of beggars, and coming to this country sue
for their rights. If the right hon. gentleman would read the
foreign newspapers, especially American newspapers, he would
see how greatly those cases brought us into contempt. Ile
next referred to the system of torture used to extract mo
of ney
and worse
from poor wretches who had none to pay. This system tor-
ture was continued under the present regime .
The
;
than that, there was no attempt to apply a remedy
latest accounts showed that the tortures, though had,ywrhape, diminished, had by no means ceased, and that the
hon. gentleman was fully justified who said that in this
matter the Court of Directors was a particeps crintinis. u
admirable suggestion was made by Mr. Llewen, hat you
should give to the native Moonsif criminal jurisdiction.
Wo had just iluisheJ a great war ; but now we were on
the eve of a little wiCe— a war with Persia. He
bore testimony to the fact, that the right hon. gentleman de-
served great credit for the sentiments contained in the con-
clusion of his speech, and for the judic,!ous mode in which he
had exercised his patronage for the advanti:y3 of India.
Mr. H. D. SEYMOUR said it was imposiale to. manage
such a vast empire as that of India, without 11,:ring these
princely claimants for what was designated justie:9- But
many of these claims were of ancient date, and the pfesent
Government was by no means responsible for anything cotil-
plained of. He took up the cases mentioned, and defended the
I policy which had been pursued respecting them. There were
discrepancies in the accounts, but Mr. Grant had admitted that
there but approximative. These accounts were made
underhe old system ; the next accounts would be made up
in accordance with the new system, and then he trusted that
these discrepancies would not again appear. There would be
far greater details in the new accounts on many points, espe-
cially with regard to public works, than there were in the
present. Some of the money which had been expended tapes
those public works had returned profits to the extent of 600
and 700 per cent. They wanted very badly cheap and easy
justice in India ; and this want interrupted all commercial
speculations, and proved a great incubus on the progress of the
country, which iu the new era of Indian government would,
he hoped, not be suffered to remain long. The next want was
a good system of education in India ; the system established by
his right hon. friend, now the First Lord of the Admiralty, only
required to be well carried out ; and he was glad to hear from
his right hon. friend the President of the Board of Control
that this system was to be carried into effect with vigour. There
was a very groat desire for education, and so great was the in-
dustry of the children that the difficulty was not to get them
to learn, but to prevent them injuring their health by neglect-
ing to play. The great motive for this application was the de-
sire to get into Government employment. The education of
girls was an important subject. Ten years ago it was difficult
to get parents to allow their daughters to attend the schools,
but this objection was gradually dying out, and the schools
were beginning to be well attended. The Parsee schools in
Bombay were also flourishing, and there were a number of
schools for girls, whieh were well attended. They were in the
hands of the natives ; but the English system was adopted,
and the books used were the Irish school-books. There was
also a railway about to be applied for, without a guarantee.
There was great reason to be sanguine of the future prosperity
of India, seeing the greater interest that was now takenitin
that country, and that Government now afforded encourage-
ment to enterprising speculators. With respect to cotton-,
spinning in India, which had likewise been adverted to by'
the right hon. gentleman, the President of the Board of Con-
trol, he had seen the establishments at Noche, Pondicherry,
and Calcutta, and looked upon the undertaking as most im-
portaut, not from its magnitude, but the promise it afforded
that the yarn which had hitherto been exported from Europe
might now be made in the country itself, and the moiley with
which it had been purchased applied in the cultivatio n of the
soil. They must remember, too, that the schemes fo r con-
necting India with Europe would bear largely upon this new
source of expectation, and among them was the Euphrates
railway project, which the Turkish Government would assist
with all its power. Thus would old prejudices be forgotton,
education be made more general, justice cheap and easy, and
capital and intellect be introduced. By those means he con-
fidently hoped that every blot that had stained the adminis-
tration of the revenue in India would gradually disappear,
and, by a wise government established in that country, they
would acquire strength in the general relations with the
Asiatic continent. (Hear.)
Mr. BUTT took advantage of the peculiar nature of the
committee to give notice that he should endeavour, probably
on Thursday next, to call attention to the case of the only
native Prince of Scinde who had a titleand territory remain-

Mr. MANGLES said he thought it was due to himself and
others that he should reply to some charges which had been
made against the Government of India. They had been asked
why they had not abolishes" torture in India 7 He would ask,
in reply, what were the shortcomings in their social Govern-
ment at home? He would ask, for example, why they had not
put down agrarian murders in Ireland 7 And when he was
blamed for not knowing of its existence, ho could plead igno-
rance in company with Lord Elleuborough and other distin-
guished men. At the same tine he would remark, that the
fact of their not having known of it ought to be received
as some proof that the practice was not so great as it was
supposed to be. The honourable member for Stafford, speak-
ing of Oude, referred to the treaty of 1837; but he could
tell the hon. gentleman, that had the alternative been adopted
1 which he appeared to recommend, the only difference would
have been, that the streets of Lucknow would have been
deluged with blood, and the most horrible calamities would
have occurred, which, happily, had been avoided: Ho quite
agreed in the separation of the police from the revenue. In a
population like that of India, one of whose chief characteris-
tics was a tendency to crouch to fiscal oppression, the union
was most objectionable. On the subject of torture he might
here mention that in the vast presidency of Bengal, which
was little less in extent than the whole of France, not only
was there no torture, but there was no officer by whom it
could be committed.
The resolutions were then put and agreed to.
Mr. V. SMITH observed that the opinions given by the law
commissioners were sent out to the Government in India fur
their opinion, and they in return wrote a despatch sa3iug they
were ready to carry many of them into effect if approved of by
the Government at home. He certainly had sent out his ap-
proval at once, and no doubt everything would be done to
carry their recommendation into effect as soon as possible.
In answer to a question from Mr. °TWAY,
Mr. V. SMITH said he had not heard if Mr. Theobald, a
law professor in Calcutta, was dismissed from his office in con-
sequence of his denunciation of torture, but if he were dis-
missed, it must have been ley the Governor-General, who, uo
doubt, had good reason to do so.
The house then resumed.
THE BISHOPS OF LONDON AND DURHAM BILL.
In answer to Sir J. GRAHAM,
Lord PALMERSTON said he should propose to read it a
second time to-morrow evening.
Sir J. GRAHAM—WiII the noble lord ha,\To any objection
to lay on the table the correspondence which took place be-
tween the Bishops of London and Durham and the Govern-
ment on the subject of the resignation of their bishoprics ?
Lord PALMERSTON said it had already been la, d on the
table of the House of Lords, and of course there could be no
objecton to do so.
VICE-iPRESIDENT OF COMMITTEE OF COUNCIL ON
EDUCATION BILL.
On this bill being brought up to be amended and considered,
Mr. HADFIELDmoved the insertion of a clans 3 extending
the duties of the President to Ireland.
Sir G. GREY opposed the clause, but on the suggestion of
the Speaker, it was postponed until the third reading to-
morrow.
THE LEASES AND SALES OF SETTLED ESTATES
BILL.
This bill was considered and amended, and ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow.
The house ten went through committee on the Hay and
Straw Trade Bill.
PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The consideration of the Lords' amendments to this bill
was then proceeded with.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved that the Lords' amend-
ments be amended, by leaving out clauses 12 and 13 of these
amendments, the object being to restore the clause abolish-
ing all descriptions of tests on the appointment of schoohnas-
ters, which was agreed to after a short discussion.
COMMISSIONERS OF SUPPLY (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The Lords' amendments on this bill were considered and
agreed to.
INTESTATES PERSONAL ESTATES BILL.
The Lords' amendments on this bill were considered and
agreed to.
STOKE POGIS HOSPITAL BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
DULWICH COLLEGE BILL.

The order for the second reading of this bill was discharged.
ROCTORS (ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS).
Mr. HADFIELD moved for leave to bring in a bill to re-
peal the Bth section of the act 50 Geo. 111., cap. 127,
whereby proctors in Ecclesiastical Courts in England allowing
their names to be used by persons not entitled to act as proc-
tors, or allowing such persons to participate in any profit and
benefit, shall off the roll. —Agreed to.
APPELLATE JURISDICTION.
On the motion of Mr. RAIKES CURRIE the following
members were nominated as the seleet committee on the Ap.
pellate Jurisdiction Bill :—Mr. Raikes Currie, Lord John
Rus.ell, Mr. Attorney-General, Sir James Graham, Mr. Hen-
ley, Mr. Gladstone, Lord Stanley, the Lord-Advocate, Mr.
Attorney-General for Ireland, Mr. Walpole, Sir Francis Bar-
ing, Mr. Baines, Mr. Cairns, Mr. Evelyn Denison, and Mr.
Malins : Power to send for persons, papers, and records ; five
to be the quorum.
THE BISHOPS OF LONDON AND DURHAM BILL.
This bill was read a first time, and the second reading fixed
for to-morrow.
The house adjourned at 25 minutes to two o'clock.

COFFEE AND EATING-HOUSE-KEEPERS' BENEVOLENT
ASSOCIATION.—The thirty-ninth half-yearly meeting of
this useful charity, which is intended to assist decayed
members, their widows and orphans, was held last
night at the Freemasons' Tavern. The immediate ob-
ject of the meeting was to receive the report of the com-
mittee and the auditors for the past half-year, to elect a
president, vice-president, and committee and other offi-
cers for the ensuing year. Mr. Baker, the president of
the association, took the chair, and called upon Mr.
Rogers, the secretary, to read the report, which stated
that the capital invested was 3,2801. 13s. 5d., and that
the balance in the hands of the treasurer was 311 13s. 5d.,
making a total of 3,3121. 6s. 10d., which should be con-
sidered as gratifying, because during the year three pen-
sioners had been added to the list, at an increased expen-
diture of 341. The committee were happy to announce
to the members that they continued to receive from the
London press a constant support and sympathy- The
report was unanimously adopted, and Mr. Chislett, on
the part of the auditors, having presented their report,
it met with a similar reception. Mr. Harding, of Ave
Maria-lane, the vice-president of the past half-year, was
then elected president for the ensuing year. The vice
president, committee, trek finer, auditors, ard other offi-
cers were then appointed, and the meeting closed with a
cordial vote of thanks to the past officers.