The Sun.
London, England, 1860-08-11 00:00:00

wi h that in India. The same system which now existed
in this country was intended to be carried out as regarded
India. He hoped, therefore, no obstruction to the pas-
sing of the measure would be offered. Hear.) He assured
the house there was no intention on the part of the home
authorities to interfere with the decisions of the Governor-
General in India, directly or indirectly. (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of DERBY theught that the effect of this
measure, and the measures that would result from it, were
such as to occasion considerable anxiety and apprehension,
because the prospects before us were very uncertain, and the
intentions of her Majesty's Government were rather vague.
With regard to the amalgamation there had been offered
the most conflicting opinions ; but it was singular that
almost all the officers connected with the line who had given
any opinion on the subject had been in favour of the amal-
gamation. He did not for a moment dispute, on the con-
trary, he'conteuded for the necessity of concentrating in
one department authority over the whole of her Majesty's
forces in India ; but this might be done without amalga-
mating those forces. With regard to the discipline of the
troops, he contended that her Majesty's Commander-in-
Chief in this country shonld exercise supreme authority ;
but with regard to crrders in the field, the undivided autho-
rity and responsiblity should rest with the Governor-
General, and subordinately, but in concurrence with him,
with the Commander-in-aief in India. (Hear.) He repu-
diated altogether the jealousy entertained respecting the
Horse Guards. No one was less desirous than the illus-
trious duke of absorbing into his own Lends the patronage
of the army. The noble duke (the Dukd of Argyll) who
introduced the question with singular ability enc.; Clearness;
argued as if they had only two alternatives before item,
amalgamation or the continuance of the status quo, with an
overwhelming India force. He (the Earl of Derby) thought
there was great advantage in having a local force acquainted
with the language and habits of the people, at the same time
he fully agreed with the illustrious duke as to the necessity
of preserving discipline by the constant infusion of fresh
blood from this country. On this subject he had often con-
versed with the illustrious duke himself. But the bill be-
fore the house was not for the amalgamation of the two
armies, but the extinction of the local army. Then, as to the
staff corps, nothing definite had been stated as to the mode in
which that body was to be organised and worked. The ques-
tion of reliefs kad been referred to, and the noble duke ob-
served that there would be no difficulty in this respect. But if
instead of having 20,000 troops, you have 80,000, you
would require 30,000 more to compensate for those con-
stantly returning home and going out to supply the defi-
ciency. There were considerable difficulties in tke way of
amalgamation, arising from the different character of the
two services. There was, for example, the system of pro-
motion by merit, and that by purchase on which the Go-
vernment had given no information. He could not help
thinking that it would operate to prevent a man entering
into the army when he would find that it was just possible
he might pass a third of his military life in. India. He
thought they were making an experiment of some danger
in the proposed bill, and one from which they could not
recede. He certainly felt that after the strong expression
of opinion in the other house of Parliament, and the strong
expression of opinion also on the part of the illustrious duke,
he should shrink from the responsibility of offering opposi-
tion to this bill, and would leave to the Government the re-
sponsibility of this measure. (Hear.)
Lord CLYDE was received with general cheering, but
spoke in so low a tone that it is quite impossible to pretend
to give a full report. He said his experience in India had
entirely convinced him of the absolute necessity of having
only one European army, moveable as one force, maintained
at one point of discipline, and acting, as it were, with one
soul. On his arrival on one occasion at a station, a night's
journey from Simla, the Adjutant-General of Artillery, a
most distinguished officer, addressed the chief of the Staff,
and asked what the general was going to do. He said the
general was going to speak to the men. The officer said
they were past that. This anecdote showed what was the
discipline of a European local force. He had never before
seen troops in such a state that they would not listen to
their officers ; but to avoid the great evil of employing
other European troops against them, he was obliged to form
a commission, before whom the men appeared and stated
their grievances. (Hear.) There were many other cir-
cumstances which came to his knowledge and made him
arrive at the conclusion that for the character and honour
of the country it was necessary there should be but one
army and one discipline. (Cheers.) He entirely concurred
in all the opinions which the illustrious duke had expressed,
and it was almost painful to him to disagree with the noble
earl, of whose extreme kindness he was deeply sensible (the
Earl of Ellenberough), when the noble earl said this mea-
-1 sure ought to be postponed. The business must be settled at
once. (Hear.) To remove the jealousies and suspicions
which he must admit existed, it was very desirable that
some decision should be arrived et, and that the opinion of
their lordships and of Government should be no longer left
in doubt. (Cheers.)
Earl GRANVILLE, after paying a compliment to the
noble and gallant lord who had just addressed their lce d-
ships, said he thought one of the great advantages of the
abolition of the East India Company would be the removal
of the great anomaly of the existence of two armies in one
of her Majesty's dependencies, differing altogether from
each other in composition and discipline. The noble earl
then proceeded to remark upon several of the views which
had been put forward by the noble earl (Earl Derby) who
had complained that this bill had been brought forward
without Government submitting to Parliament the whole of
their scheme. Now he (Earl Granville) thought that Go-
vernment had acted wisely in leaving the details to be set-
tled when Parliament had approved of the principle of the
bill. He believed, upon the authority of letters from India,
and upon the experience they had gained upon this subject,
that it was of the greatest importance this question should
be settled without delay. (Hear, hear.)

The bill was then read a second time.
TRANSPORT OF FORCES TO CHINA.

The Earl of ELLENBORGUGH put a question to her
Majesty's Government as to whether any estimate had been
received of the cost of transport for the force to be em-
ployed in India.

The Duke of SOMERSET said that the cost of tran-
ports hired at home amounted per month to £159,932. The
cost of those taken up in India amounted to £69,500, and
of those taken up in China, £32,000. Including coal and
victualling, the cost from June Ist was about £164,000 per
month. The entire cost at the present rate would be about
£2,000,000 a• year.

The Earl. of ELLENBOROUGH expressed his surprise
at that gnormous expenditure.
The Tramways (Ireland) Bill was read a third time.
The Ecclesiastical Commission, &c. Bill went through
committee.

The Poor-law Continuance Bill was read a second time,
after which the house adjourned, at a few minutes past 12

o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.)

The SPEAKER took the chair at half-past twelve o'clock;
the house not having been formed before.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Beauchamp Almshouses Estate, Domvile's Estate, Duke
of Norfolk's Estate, Earl of Longford's Estate, and Gius-
tiniani's Naturalisation.