The Sun.
London, England, 1860-02-15 00:00:00

THE BUDGET.

The Budget is something more than a Bud-
get ; it is a Treaty, and a Treaty contracted
with a State far behind ourselves in all commercial
and financial respects. It is a Treaty with a Sove-
reign who has to make ignominious apologies for
the prejudices of his subjects, and ask us to humour
them. So we have to make heavy concessions,
trusting to that immense superiority which en-
ables us to give the vantage to competitors, and
knowing that a nation which puts any restrictions
on commerce is its own worst enemy. Yet the
course which France compels on its Government is
in several instances so indecently unjust that it
cannot be passed without remark, even if there
were no factions ready to profit by it. 'I he Treaty
binds us for ever neither to prohibit the exporta-
tion of coal, nor to put any duty upon it, whatever
our financial wants or our political extremity. We
are thus bound to supply France herself with coal
up to the very eve of war ; and, with fleets steam-
ing against us, to allow coal to go we can never tell
whither. France puts herself under no such re-
strictions, for, as she exports no coal, her share in
this clause means nothing. Certainly the clause
ought to be modified, and we ought to leave ourselves
at liberty to forbid, on just cause, the export of the
chief munition of modern warfare. Coal, next to
the sea, is the great defence of this country, and at
the same time the means by which it can be most
readily assailed. In one other point also the Treaty
is so one-sided that it can hardly pass without some
modification. It reserves for France all the advan-
tage she attempts to secure by her Navigation Laws,
and denies to us the power of reimposing our own
code, even if we wished it. The English merchant,
besides that he has still to meet high protective
duties on English goods imported into France,
against no such duty on French goods imported
into England, will further have to struggle against
another code of duties and prohibitions for the en-
couragement of the French marine. We in this
country know by this time that all attempts to
favour the native shipowner at the expense of the
world at large, though a nuisance to everybody, are
most mischievous to the nation itself which makes
the attempt. But, even with this stea3y convic-
tion on our part, it is not agreeable to recognise
what we believe to be at once a jealousy and a
folly. Then, what limits does the Treaty impose
to the additions which France may please to make
to her Navigation Laws, if a new access of popular
frenzy should force it on the Emperor ? We
trust that these clauses, at least, will be amended.
Times.

HEALTH OF LONDON DURING THE
WEEK.

(From the Report of the Registrar-General.)
The mortality in London has risen, apparently
in consequence of the cold weather. The deaths
were less than 1,390 in each of the two previous
weeks ; in the week that ended last Saturday they
were 1,442. In the ten years 1850-59 the average
number of deaths in the weeks corresponding with
last week was 1188; but as the deaths in the pre-
sent return occurred in a population that had in-
creased, they should be compared with the average
raised in proportion to the increase, namely, with
1306. The comparison shows that 136 persons died
last week, who would have survived if the rate of
mortality had not exceeded the average for this
period of the year. The mean temperature of the
air has been lower than the average on every day,
except two, of the cirrent month. On last Friday
the mean was as low as 28.5 deg. ; on Dec. 17th in
last year it was 22'8 deg., and on the same day the
thermometer fell as low u 15.5 deg.
The deaths arising from pulmonary diseases, not
including phthisis, rose from 368 and 389 in the
two previous weeks to 4011ast week ; the corrected
average for ten weeks corresponding to last week
is 296 ; this class of complaints is at the present
time, therefore, mach more fatal than usual. Ii the
corresponding week of 1855, when the mean tem-
perature of the air was as low as 30'9 deg., the
deaths under the same head rose to 424 ; but with
this exception they were considerably less in all
the corresponding weeks than the number shown
in the present return. Bronchitis was fatal last
week in 217 cases, pneumonia in 144; phthisis (or
consumption) in 129; and it deserves to be noticed
that the first two were more fatal, the last less
fatal, than usual.

The deaths from small-pox now returned are 31,
of which 10 occurred to persons 20 years old and
upwards. There were 47 from scarlatina, 4 of
which were returned in the sub-distill:A
of Kensington-town, and 4 in Rotherhithe.
There were also 11 from diphtheria. A hawker of
fruit died at 90, Great Peter•street, Westminster,
from destitution. A labourer died from apoplexy,
caused by inhaling the vapours of spirit in a r_um.
vault in the London Docks. Seven persons died at
the age of 90 years and upwards, and amongst
these was a widow in the Marylebone Workhouse,
who had attained the age of 100.
Last week2sto2le
tihiieldbriernt,hws
eorfel,roe3gOisbtoeyrsdanid 991 girls,
in
In
average
nconrurmesbr waspeondingl7eeks of the e yenars 1850-9
the
heightAt the f Royalthe
barometer
bin42oloinGah. edtmee levnrt:ehietvdeekinlcl
fell from
s.toehniet: e 7
in t30.a60:59e
Wednesday, these
nn
o Then Sunday readings
to t oh2fe9t. highest4h e i
na r'
being respectively
week.
The mean temperature of the air in the
week was 36 7 deg., which is 2.2 deg. below the ave-
rage of the same week in 43 years (as determined
by Mr. Glaisher.) The mean daily temperature
was below the average on every day except Sunday
and Wednesday, and on the last two days of the
week the amount of this depression was from 7 to
10 degrees. The thermometer in the shade rose to
50.2 on Wednesday, and fell to 23.2 degrees on
Saturday, which were respectively the highest and
lowest points in the week. The entire range of
temperature in the week was therefore 27 degrees.
The mean daily range was 10.3 degrees. The dif-
ference between the mean dew-point temperature
and air temperature was 5.6 degrees, representing
the dryness of ' the air. The mean degree of
humidity 'was Si, complete saturation being repre-
sented by 100. On Friday the humidity of the air
was only 70 ; and on that day a thermometer on the
grass fell to 9.5 degrees. The wind which was
chiefly in the south-west on the first four days,
changed to north on Thursday, end on Saturday
turned again to south. Rain fell to the amount of
0.40 inches, three-fourths of which fell on Monday.
Snow fell on Monday, Thursday, and Saturday.

It is stated, and we believe with good reason, that
Colonel Sir John Douglas, K.C.8., of the 79th Highlanders,
will succeed Colonel M'Clsverty as Assistant-Adjutant.
General at Edinburgh.—Arm and .Navy Gazette.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDiY.)

- - -
The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at the usual hour.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a number of
petitions from Corfe Castle and other places in favour of
church-rates.
The Bishop of WINCHESTER also presented a great
*umber of petitions from several places in his diocese to a
similar effect.
The Earl of MALMESBURY presented similar peti-

tions.
tition
The Duke of MARLBOROUGH presented ape
from Leeds relative to the hostilities in China.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
On the motion of Lora REI)ESDALE, the Grimsby Fen
Drainage Improvement, the Royal Naval School, the Shef-
field Cutlers' Company, the Grand Canal, the Midland
Great Western of Ireland, and Great Southern and Western
Companies' bills were read a second time.
C.
The Earl of MALMESBURY then said a statement had
been made in another place by the noble lord the Minister
for Foreign Affairs,. to the effect that Mr. Bruce was act-
ing according. td his instructions when he forced the passage
of the Peiho. He must say he had the greatest
respect for Mr. Bruce, but he (the Earl of Malmesbury) could
not consent to the assertion that had been made that Mr.
Bruce was acting exactly according to his instructions. He,
therefore, proposed on Tuesday, the 21st, to make a state-
ment of the instructions he had given to Mr. Bruce/ her
Majesty's Envoy in China.

NICE AND SAVOY.

The Marquis of NORMANBY moved for copies of any
instructions that may have been sent from the Secretary of
State forForeignAffairs to the Charge d'Affaires at Florence,
who was not accredited to the Provisional Government
there, directing him to attend an official reception on
the Ist of January, of Signor Buoncompagni,
now acting as Governor-General of Tuscany, having
been nominated as such by Prince Carignan,. of
Savoy, without any subsequent popular sanction on the part
of the Tuscan people, and also for returns of all•communi-
cations between the Secretary of State and her Majesty's
Ambassador at Paris on the subject of the annexation of
the duchies of Savoy and Nice to France up to the Ist of
January last. The noble lord took the opportunity of re-
marking upon what he considered the extraordinary act in
question, which he looked upon as an exemplification of the
line of conduct which had been pursued towards Italy,
and he would be careful not to say anything
that would embarrass the noble earl opposite in the re
marks he should feel it his duty to make on the present occa-
sion. The noble marquis then referred to the answer given
to him on a former occasion when the noble earl, the Presi-
dent of the Council, said there might have been conversations
on the subject between Count Walewski and Lord Cowley
on the subject of the annexation of the two duchies, but
that nothing had taken place which could properly be called'
official. He confessed he could not understand how any
such conversation could take place on so import-
ant a subject between two such eminent personages,
and nothing transpire that could be considered official. He
then proceeded to comment in severe terms on the part
the Government had taken in Italian affairs, and
said that the idea that the Baron Ricasola had been selected
'bey the popular voice was quite absurd. According to his
new it was quite a mistake to suppose that the people of the
Central States had tranquilly submitted to tha Provisional
Government.

The Earl GRANVILLE said that he had never been
accused in their lordships' house of want of courtesy, and
he should certainly not be guilty of any want of courtesy
towards the noble marquis, either in his tone oe manner;
and if it had appeared so, he much regretted it. (Hear.)
This motion was almost without precedent in its irregularity,
but at theaarne time he had not the slightest objection to
the return. Tho noble marquis stated that no communica•
tion passing between a Minister of the Crown and an am-
bassador at a foreign Coma, could be regarded in any other
light than as an official communication. He (Lord Gran-
ville) denied that such was the case. When a Minister and
an ambassador had known each other for many years, it
was impossible that they should not fall _into views and
modes of expression which rendered the communication
unfit to be regarded as a public document. The noble mar-
quis had referred to a conversation in which Count Walewski
had stated what would be done in certain contingencies, but
the papers laid last night on the table would throw some
light on that point. He suggested to the noble marquis, that
the correspondence should comprise the entire period since
the accession of the present Administration to office. It
seemed strange that, on such a motion as this, the noble
marquis should have gone into a general charge against the
Italian people. (Hear.) He really must ask upon what
authority the noble marquis made all these grave charges?
(Hear.) Private letters might throw some light on such
questions, but they ought not to be made the basis of sucli'
charges, and such discussions of public questions on which
they all had reliable information on which they had formed
their opinions. The noble marquis, night after night, read
extracts and translations from his private correspondent, but
we did not know the name t!or the motive of this private
correspondent, and were therefore unable to say what
*eight ought to a' tech to his representations. It would be
childish for the Brit.sh Parliament to allow itself to be
influenced by such things. (Hear.) A collection of tales
of this description had been submitted to her .Najesty's
Government, but, on inquiry, they proved to be without
foundation. (Hear, hear.) It would be contrary to human
nature to suppose that such a golden age had arrived for
Italy as that there were no offences on the part of the people,
and no misconduct on the part of the Government—(hear,
haar)—but, from what he considered authentic information,
he learned that the present condition of Italy was most re-
markable for the order which prevailed, and more espe
daily if they contrasted it with the state of things which
prevailed in 1848. Our representatives informed us that
the elections were conducted with order and regularity, and
that the persons elected were those who were remarkable
for. nobility of birth, for extent of property, or for their
scientific, or literary, or industrial qualifications. The noble
marquis even questioned the very existence of this despatch.
Probably this, too, was on the information of his private
correspondent. (Laughter.) The noble marquis had used
terms in speaking of the Central Italian Governments which
had better have been avoided, in relation to the heads of
States with which we wish to live in peace and friendship.
(Hear.) There were no doubt some offences committed,
but, on the whole, the condition of Italy was eatistactory as
regarded the order preserved and the disposition exhibited
on the part of the people. Her Majesty's Government had
never been partizans in this matter, but had al weys preserved
a strict neutrality. and when they approved of annexation,
because the people wished it, they expressed their readiness
at the same time to discuss any other proposition for a settle-
ment ; and, so far from the influence of England having
diminished, it had gone on gradually increasing, owing to
no other merit on the part of the Government than that they
had acted in unison with the feelings of the people of Italy,
and of the majority of the people of this country. (Hear.)
No doubt the people of Italy looked to us for moral sup-
port, and our policy was to leave them to settle their own
affairs (hear)—abstaining from entering into any engage-
ments which might fetter our free action; and, having
strictly done so, he did not think that the Government
deserved the reproaches of the noble marquis. (Hear.)
The Marquis of NORMANBY, in explanation, was
understood to say that, as he was informed, our represen-
tative was ordered to attend the official reception in ques-
tion, and that the representative of Fiance was ordered not
to attend it.

The Earl of MALMESBURYremarked that if the noble
earl the President of the Council was tired of hearing the
noble marquis bring forward this Italian question it was the
fault of the Government themselves, for they had kept the
house without information, and made it necessary to ask
these questions and move for these returns. Without wish-
ing to glorify the late Cabinet, to which' he (the Earl of
Maltnesbury) belonged, he must observe that on leaving
office he presented to Parliament the full correspondence
which had taken place on the'alrairs of Italy from the Ist of
January to the end of May. The-noble lord the present
Secretary for Foreign.AnStlrs haa not followed that example,
forno-official papers had been published by him since his
despatches of June last. Now he (the Earl of Malruesbury)
had been made the subject of great misrepresentations. For
some party purpose he had been held up as a partisan of
Austria, and as a partial supporter of Austrian tyranny in
Italy.. But in the very first despatch he wrote on the subject
to Lord A. Loftus, at Vienna, on the 12th of Jan., 1859, he
stated positively and categorically to Austria tat in no'
case could England assist her in military operations in
Italy. In the face of that he had been accused of being
partial to the Austrian Government and of wishing it well,
and, being against Italian liberty and independence, while
throwing every possible difficulty in the way of France.
The object of the late Ministers was to establish and main_
tain a complete, impartial, bona fide neutrality, which they
knew was the wish of the English people ; and this was
done up to the moment when they quitted office. No cir-
cumstances which had occurred could justify her Majesty's
Government departing from the principle of non-interven-
tion. Though lie had not seen the papers which had at last
been presented to the other house, but not to their lord-
ships, and spoke, therefore, with diffidence on the subject,
yet, from all he had heerd, and, indeed, from what the noble
lord.the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had himself
stated in the other house, ho eves apprehceeive that. strict
impartiality and a system of non-iuterference had not been
persisted in. If it were true that her Majesty's Government
Believed that the best policy was that North Italy should be
formed into a strong kingdom, composed of the united pro-
vinces which bad rejected their former sovereigns, and urged
that,policy on France, and France used it as a reason and a
pretext for carrying out objects which she epeeared to have
abandoned for the time, then the blame of the loss of Savoy
.0 Piedmont and its annexation to France would in some
measure rest with her Majesty's Government, because they
had abandoned the principle which the late Government
first established, and which their successors had for a time
followed. Every man had aright to form an opinion on this
subject, and the opinion of her Majesty's Government, it
appeared, Was that a strong kingdom should be formed of
North Italy. He had the greatest respect for the experi-
ence `and ability' of the members of the Government in
that house, and of their colleagues in the House of Cora-
%toes ; but in his opinion that was not the way to give real
'strength to the government of that part of Italy. He con-
cluded that they wished what he, and he believed every
n in this country, wished, viz., that Italy should be
strongna
enough to resist aggression and to take her place
amongv the other great nations of Europe • but he did not
think that their scheme
as the best for arriving' at such a
consummation, and he need not tell them why. If they
formed a kingdom of North Italy, by uniting the duchies of
Parma and Tuscany, the omagna, and it had for its
consequence the annexationanl R
of Savoy to France, how could
it be a strong kingdomaetnilitary sense ? (Hear, hear,
from the Earl of Derby. It would be open at both ends.
(Renewed cries ofm" Ileettru,6hy
of thfro.l.n the same noble peer.)
France -would ho
Austria the key of North Italy on°tl 1?s en the south, and
The geographical formation of Ittealdinci°. (Hear,hear.)
country to defend in a military point ofyvivnead.o it a difficult
the character of the Italians, he believed thwa ;'and looking to
Italy was to be found in the existence of those es strength of
distinct governments which it had possessed for
repmaarnate and
cen-
turies. It Would be stronger as a nation of confederated
States, free of course from foreign interference, than as one
independent kingdom, as suggested by her Majesty's
Government. If Italy were formed into a kingdom, as they
proposed, it would be strong enough to give
offence, but
slaver strong enough to protect itself; but, though these
were his own private opinions, he did not wish to urge them
upon the Italians, nor would lac do so if lie were now a
Minister of the Crown. Let them, ,in o sG d' name, leave
the billions to work out their own liberty. (Cheers from
the Mipisterial benches.) And if her Majesty's
Govern-
ment had any influence over the Emperor of the French,
let them induce him to withdraw his army horn
(Hear.) He now only saw French troops substituted for
atria consmnation of which he perfectly dizap-
.

proved, but which, he confessed, ho had foreseen. A
smaller matter had been brought before their lordships by
the noble marquis, viz., the compliment paid to Signor
Buoncompagni. He entirely agreed with the noble marquis
in regretting that any mark of respect which w not posi-
tively necessary should have been paid to that gentleman.
He (the Earl of Malmesbury) was not a prude in politics,
nor influenced by any Quixotic feelings, but there was a
line, in his opinion, beyond which particular indulgence
should not be extended. If he believed that that the maxims
of the Christian religion were not sufficient to keep society
together, there was the code of honour established by men
which should be acted upon. Without a code of honour it
would be impossible for negotiations between different na-
tions to proceed, and the whole state of society would be
one of disruption. Let him remind their lordships what
Buoncompagni did when he stood in the sacred character of
Sardinian Minister at the court of the Grand Duke of Tus-
cany. From the evidence of Mr. Scarlett, the English
Minister he appears to have been if not the chief at least
one of thei most active conspirators in bringing about the
revolution in Tuscany and in hurling the sovereign from
his throne. To English minds this was almost incredible.
Let him suppose that the Sardinian or any other foreign
Minister at the British court was discovered conspiring with
the Irish agitators or any other band of conspirators for the
purpose not only of violating their oath, and breaking the
law, but of actually driving the sovereign from her throne.
Such was the case in Tuscany; and before the ink was dry
which signed away the Grand Duke's power over his
subjects, Signor Buoncompagni, having been accredited to
hlm as the King of Sardinia's Minister, sat almost in the
place of the Grand Duke, inasmuch as he was one of the
royal commission who managed the whole affairs of the
duchy. Revolutions were revolutions, and they did not
expect to hear of them without many and perhaps great
crimes ; but there was no reason why those who took part
in them should receive useless and unnecessary compliments.
Therefore he was perfectly unable to understand, as well as
the noble marquis why our charge d'affaires went., though
now apparently without orders, in official dress to the levee
of M. Iluoncompagni. If he received no orders to attend
that official reception, of course these remarks went for no-
thing; but he (the Earl of Malmesbury) apprehended that
their lordships had too great a respect for public morality
to feel for one moment that such conduct could be excused.
(Hear, hear.) He had only one word to say with regard
to Savoy, and that was to express his surprise that no state-
ment had been made to the house concerning that scheme.
Considering the footing which, he was glad to say, the
noble lord at the head of the Government had established
with the Einperor of the French, it appeared to him that
her Majesty's Government ought to be perfectly clear and
well informed upon the subject. Did the Emperor of the
French mean, or did he not, to annex Savoy to France ?
The question was a short one, and easy to ask, and it ought
to be easy for his Majesty to answer. When her Majesty's
Government first had an idea that the annexation of Savoy
was contemplated, they ought to have lost no time in pet
ting categorical questions. When Lord Cowley was ap-
plied to on the subject, he said not only there was no treaty,
but no intention on the part of the Emperor of the French
to annex Savoy; but it appeared that since her Majesty's
Government had had communications with the French
Government, and that some, proposals had been made re-
specting the annexation of Savoy. Now, he wished to know
what were the impressions on the minds of the Government
with regard to this matter ;-and if they had received any
answer from the French Government, they could perhaps
tell whether such a consummation was likely to take place.
If the subject was of such immense importance to Europe
as people generally supposed, they ought to expect and press
for an answer from her Majesty's Government, unless they
were of opinion that it was not for the public benefit to give
a reply.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the noble earl,
and the noble marquis who made the motion, had mixed up
two questions which were totally disconnected, far he had
assumed that the annexation of Savoy to France was to be
part and parcel of the annexation of the Central States of
Italy to Sardinia. No such connection existed, and although
unfortunately the contingency of the annexation of Savoy
to France had been admitted into the discussion which had
taken place, he for one believed that such a scheme would
not now be carried out. (Hear.) He believed, and strongly
hoped and trusted, that the consolidation of a strong Italian
Government by the junction of the liberated duchies would
be offectol. The feelings of the house and the country were
very strong against the one proposal, and very much in fa-
vour of the other. The Marquis of Clanricarde then taunted
the Marquis of Normanby with inconsistency in blaming
the Government for giving their moral support to the pro-
visional governments of Italy, alluding to what the noble
marquis had done as English ambassador at Paris during
the revolution, and referring especially to his having, four
daysufter the revolution, written home to his own Govern-
ment to say that they should tender their support to M.
Lamartine, as the head of the previsional government. He
confessed he had listened with extreme pain to the speeches
delivered both in the last and the present year by the noble
marquis. He believed that very few but the noble marquis
would have spoken as he had done with reference to the
Italians struggling for their liberation from the most despotic
and oppressive Government which perhaps ever existed in
a civilised age. (Hear.) The noble marquis's information
was as entirely incorrect as his political reasoning. J'ic said
he had long resided in Florence, and was well acquainted
with the country, but it often happened that a resident
who attached himself to a particular creed. or party knew
less of the condition of the country than a mere casual
visitor. (Hear, hear.) That was precisely the case of the
noble marquis. The noble marquis instanced Milan, where
he said that under the new Government taxation had in-
creased 15 per cent., but considering that daring the last
two years the principal crops—viz., wine and silk—had
failed, the condition of the people was not so bad as might
have been expected. But why did not the noble marquis,
who was so much interested in the finances of Northern
Italy, go to Venice, where the property of people was sold
because their yearly income was not sufficient to defray the
taxes they were called upon to pay ? Surely that might
be called confiscation. (Hear.) Ile had seen the reform
agitation, and he recollected many contested elections, and
he must say he never in his life saw among all classes and
throughout the wholteof any town such order, unanimity,
and such happiness as he had witnessed at Milan during
demonstrations of popular feeling. It was all very well to
say that a stranger might have been deceived, but a per-
son coming front a free country, generally was supposed to
know something of demonstrations, and could easily col-
lect from his intercourse with different parties whether their
sentiments were real or not. He had also visited Parma,
and here he must say he was sorry that the noble marquis
opposite should have thought it necessary to bring in ques-
, tien the personal conduct of the ruler of those countries.
For his own part he believed that among the wealth and
irtelligence of the middle classes in those provinces there
was shalt ono feeling, namely, an anxiety to get rid of the
system under which they had lived. There certainly were
documents in existence of which the signatures could not
be denied, and he warned the noble lord (the Marquis of
Nermsnby) that when those documents were laid before,
the house and the country they would not redound to the
honour of the princes who had been removed from their
thrones. What: was the government existing at Bologna ?
It was notorious that in that country the government was
so bad that life and Property were not secure from the rapa-
city of the Austrian commanders and the pillage of the
Austrian soldiers ; ' while, on the other rand, there was
no protection against the banditti and other malefactors of
the country. In one place 26 young men had been shot one
morning for mere ordinary delinquencies, and there was an
instance of a person being shot by an Austrian soldier for
having stolen about twopence in value of our money. He
was as anxious as any man for the maintenance of thetem-
poral possessions of the Pope ; and looking at the state of
things in Europa, it was his deliberate opinion that it was
most desirable for the Protestant states that the Pope should
be in the independent position of a temporal soyereign. He
was sorry there should be so much delay in settling the
Italian question, but he thought that everything that could
be done to strengthen the Governments in Northern Italy
ought to be done as speedily as possible. He defied the
noble marquis to produce at that table the list of the repre-
sentatives of Tuscany and Bologna, and show there could
be found a more admirable collectionof persons to represent
the interests of those countries. Among the number were
two princes, 29 marquises and counts—and among them the
oldest historical names-12 knights, 6 men of high military
rank, 12 professors, 4 ecclesiastical dignitaries, 4 judges, 5
doctors, 2 engineers, and 5 manufacturers. The provisional
government of that country were placed in this position,
that they had the revolntionary party, which it was very
difficult for them to restrain, to deal with, and they were
now called to go to a new election, while at the same time
they saw their enemies were making preparations, not for
now elections. but possibly for a renewal of the war. It was
a positive fact that Austria was constantly sending addi-
tional troops into the Papal countries, and SOO men had
lately been despatched from Trieste to Ancona. He had
thought it right to make these remarks, because he consi-
derec the provisional government of Italy and the people
of Italy had been most unfairly treated by the noble lord
opposite. His noble friend might go front one end of that
country to the other, and walk about, the towns at all
hems in a great deal more safety than he could ever have
done while it was under the Austrian rile. At the
same time, it must be remembered that after the Grand
Duke was expelled by the revolution of 1818, and the
Government then established was overthrown by
theliariy then in power, the Grand Duke gave in his adhe-
sion to no party, and his first act was to strike a medal in
honour of the persons who then composed that Government;
Isstuatt
ewohie
things,n he felt
a and
de c
re
-ei ,nlBl
te i
tu t ed totally
capital abolishedvin
punishment.
es established
1 i sßh eudt
the fact was that the present state of Italy demanded the
utmost attention, and our Government should lose no time
in endeavouring to see them properly settled.
Earl Glt AN VILLE explainedthat the despatches which
had been i;t:;L Ironl Lard Cowley made no allusion_
b r
whatever to territorial acquisitions y the reach Go; ern •
meet.

After an observation from the Earl of MALMESEURY,'
which did not reach the gallery,
The Earl of CARDIGAN protested against the -' evaeul
lion of Route by the French troops. It might, judicious
to withdraw the troops from Northern. Italy, but if Rome
were evacuated the lives of the Popo and the cardinals would
not be worth an hour's purchase. So hateful had the Papal
Government become to the people of Rome, that the pre-
sence of a strong force of foreign troops was absolutely ne-
cessary for their protection.
The Earl of DERBY said that the house need not be
under the least apprehension that he was going to follow,
much less reply to, the very discursive speech of, the noble
marquis opposite. He agreed with the noble lord the Pre-
sident of thetouncil that the papers having been laid on the
table of both houses only on the previousilai, any further
discussion on the motion of his noble friend would be pre-
mature. (Hear.) Still less did he think itwonld be desirable
to follow the noble marquis from Italy to Ireland, from the
biography of the nobles and princes of Italy to the noble
marquis's own reminiscences of the time when he presided
over an institution for the promotion of civil and religious
liberty, or to the history of the old Catholic Association, or
even the account of the disciples of Dr. Cullen, all topics upon
which the noble'marquis had amused, and, no' doubt, to
some extent enlightened their lordships. He (I,ord Derby)
had not been to Italy for 38 years, and therefore had
escaped the ignorance of its affairs, which had been said to be
the result of a2O years' residence in the country. (A laugh.)
Neither had he paid it one of those Audden visits from which
it was said such sudden illumination could be derived. But
he should not discuss these contradictory opinions " non.
nostrum tantas compenere lites .'7 this, however, he would
say, that the Italian topic was becoming every day more
important, and could not be ignored. At present he joined
in deprecating discussion; but there were one or two points
upon which he would say a word. He wished, in tho first
place, to know whether the papers which had been laid on
the table contained the latest infnrmatipn respecting the al-
le ged.contemplated annexation of Savoy, and whether Go-
vernment had received anyinformation as to the present in-
Ziinetiaer.) oflr
the Emperor of the
.French on the snbject.
Government hadllllb:i earl could not give him that informa-
tion h' was compelledanelttoecaorgetnoutehuesleyonwclituhsitohneeHithouersetshaotr
tPhaelm.liaanednttiteorCatbinet o
so much stress. As he was not the harmony betweed
the Tuileries upon which they laid
nswerei theunderstoodir
e,
ntehhe papersovern
m laide
n to
dno thelNa
ttoab
Jleulcyonlabtatir
but
thwehaat
he wanted
to littow was whether city