The Sun.
London, England, 1860-04-24 00:00:00

, APRIL 24, 1i,60,

stand why hon. gentlemen should desire that the debate
should be prolonged.

Mr. DISRAELI thought the noble lord acted wisely in
assleittingto the adjournment of the debate until Thursday.
As to whether it could conveniently be brought to a close on
that day the noble lord was, of course, as good a judge as
any hon, member on the Opposition side of the house could
be supposed to be, inasmuch as those who sat on the same
side as the noble lord had hitherto taken the chief share in
the discussion. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The noble
lord did not, he was sure, when he spoke of delay mean to
make any personal or party allusion; but he must remind
the noble lord that he seemed altogether to misapprehend
th e character of a discussion which he (Mr. Disraeli) had,
Ile believed, commenced about six weeks ago. (A laugh.)
He had then stated, for his own part, and on behalf of
those with whom he acted, that they would not object to
the second reading of the Bill, but in making that state-
ment he had by no means intended to express his approval
of the measure. All he wished to imply was simply that
in assenting to the second reading they were willing to con-
sider the subject of the reconstruction of the House of Com-
mons and the principle on which that reconstruction should
proceed. He, therefore, desired that the noble lord should
clearly understand that, in speaking on behalf of himself
and his friends—the noble lord could, of course, answer for
his own—(a laugh)—he did not seek for delay, but by a full
discussion of all the principles involved in the Bill so to
prepare themselves to deal with a question of immense im-

portance that when they went into committee upon it the
mind of the house and the country might be fitted to
grapple with it as it deserved, and that hon. members
might not be then compelled to hunch into serious and
lengthened discussions, but, having cleared the way by pre-
liminary debate, might be enabled to proceed with greater
facility than would otherwise be the case. lie, therefore,
begged the noble lord not for one moment to imagine that
delay was the object of the Conservative party, while, of
course, it would bo presumptuous on his part to touch
upon the question of what were the wishes in the matter of
the supporters of the Government. (Laughter.) He and
his friends desired, in short, not delay, but that deep and
deliberate investigation of a great subject which was in
accordance with the freedom of discussion by which the
Parliament of England was characterised. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BENTINCK had on a previovs occasion protested
against the practice of the two front benches making
arrangements as to when a debate should close. He had
flattered himself, from the feeling then expressed, that
should the attempt ever be repeated he should be able, with
the support of a large number of independent members, to
put a stop to a practice alike irregular and unconstitutional.
He was surprised the noble lord should again have made a
proposal of that kind. He had several times attempted, but
in vain, to catch the Speaker's eye ; and he conceived he
should only be exercising the indisputable right of an inde-
pendent member if he did his best to prevent the debate from
being brought to a termination till he had had full and
ample opportunity—(laughter)—of expressing his opinion
on the measure before them. The noble lord appeared, also,
to have fallen into another mistake ; he had assumed, be-
cause he had settled it with the right hon. member for
Bucks, that there would be no division on the second read-
ing. It was not in the power of any member to say that no
division should be taken. lie concurred entirely with the
right hon. gentleman when he said, on behalf of that side
of the house, that what they sought was discussion, not
delay. The noble lord's objection to a full discussion and his
anxiety that it should close, seemed to indicate that he be-
gan to doubt whether the measure of his Government had
gained much credit since the discussion began. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL denied that his noble friend had in-
tended the front benches to agree as to the debate coming
to a close. He had only put it to the consideration of the
house whether it might not think it convenient the debate
should terminate on Thursday. There was a very great
convenience in members knowing when a debate was
likely to come to an end. Of another observation of the
honourable gentleman he must take some notice. He
stated that his noble friend had assumed from what had
passed in this discussion that there was to be no division
against the second reading. The debate had lasted three or
four nights; and it would certainly be usual, and due in
courtesy, not only to the Government, but to the house,
that if any hon. gentleman intended to divide against the
second reading some notice should be given of that inten-
tion. (Hear.) It should be publicly known, or many mem-
bers might be absent in the country, or, if in London,
might stay away from the house under the conviction that
no division would take place; and then a division
might be taken by surprise when least expected.
This was not usual even as to measures of minor import-
ance, and certainly not on a measure so important as the
present bill. The hon. gentleman had a perfect right to
express his sentiments at any length he thought proper;
but, according to the practice of the house and by courtesy,
if a division was to be taken, some notice of it should be
given.

Lord C. HAMILTON agreed with the noble lord as to
the inconvenience caused to distant members by sudden
changes in the course of public business. He thanked the
noble lord for laying down a rule, which in one case he cer-
tainly forgot.

Mr. FELLOWES protested against any understanding
being entered into that the debate should close on Thurs-
day.

KNIGHTLEY denied that the members on the Op-
position side of the house were responsible for the frequent
delays of the bill before Easter for other business far less
important.

Mr. SCULLY said that no Irish member had yet been
heard in the debate, and if any Irish member spoke late on
Thursday he ought not to be charged with 'causing delay,
or raising a factious Opposition. It was not a mere English
bill, for the decision on it would be conclusive as to the bill
for Ireland; and every one was interested when his neigh-
bour's house was on fire. (Laughter.) He approved the
principle of the bill—an extension of the franchise ; but if
a division were taken against it, he would not bind himself
to declare that the measure was satisfactory to the country.
Believing as he did that the suffrage could hardly be ex-
tended too far, ho would vote for the bill, but he must pro-
test against its being considered a final measure. (Hear.)
The debate was then adjourned till Thursday.
REPEAL OF PAPER DUTY.
The Paper Duty Bill was considered as amended.
CUSTOMS BILL.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
the house went into committee on the Customs Bill, but
dissatisfaction being indicated by hon. members the right
hon. gentleman immediately moved that the chairman re.
port progress.

The Chairman was accordingly ordered to report pro
greys, and the house resumed.

SUPPLY.

The report of the Committee of Supply was brought up
and agreed to.

BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY BILL,

The ATTORNEY. GENERAL moved the committal
pro forma of the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Bill, with a
view to the introduction of certain amendments.
The bill passed through committee.
LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL
On the motion of Mr. CAIiI»VELL the second reading of
this bill was postponed.

REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, &c. (SCOTLAND.)
This bill was read a second time.

REFRESHMENT HOUSES, &c., BILL.
The adjourned debate on the second reading of this bill
was postponed till Monday next.

COMPANIES BILL.
This bill passed through committee pro forma.
FISHERIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.

The Petitions of Right Bill as amended, was considered.
CHURCH-RATES ABOLITION BILL.
Mr. DILLWYN (in the absence of Sir J. Trelawny)
moved that the order of the day for the third reading of the
Church-rates Abolition Bill have precedence of notices of
motions upon Friday next.
The motion was agreed to.

The house adjourned at a quarter to one o'clock,