The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE 01? COMMONS.—(YEsTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock.
EAST KENT RAILWAY BILL.
On the order for the second reading of this bill,
Mr. MACGREGOR moved its second reading that
day six menthe, in consequence of the standing orders not
having been properly complied with.
Mr. WILSON supported the second reading.
The amendment was ultimately withdrawn, and the
bill read a second time and ordered to be committed.
The Colme Valley and Halstead Railway Bill was also
read a second time and ordered to be committed.
Petitions were presented in favour and against the
abolition of Church rates.
VALUATION (IRELAND.)
Sir It. FURGUSON moved for returns showing the
counties in Ireland in which the tenement valuation has
been completed, udder the Acts of 9 and 10 Vie. c. 110,
15 and 16 Vic. c. 63, and 17 Vic. c. 3, the name of each
county, the acreable contents, the annual value, the cost
of the valuation by the acre, the cost by the 1001. of the
valuation, the whole cost to each county, and the date
when it first came into force in each county ; of the
whole cost of the townlancl and of the tenement valua-
tion in each county, and the total cost of these valua-
tions in all tke counties valued under them respectively ;
of the number of revisions in each county or poor-law
union, and the cost acacia su:h revision, in each of the
years ending the 31st day of Dec.,18,53, 1854, and 1855 ;
and statement of the progress and prospect of comple-
tion of the tenement valuation of Ireland.
SPIRITS (IRELAND.)
Sir R. FERGUSON moved for returns of the number
of gallons of proof spirits on which duty was paid for
home consumption in Ireland, in each of the years 1853,
1854, and 1855: of the number of detections, of per-
sons prosecuted, of persons convicted, and of persons
confined, for offences in Ireland against the laws for the
suppression of illicit distillation, in each of the years
1853, 1854, and 1855 ; and distinguishing, in columns,
the number of such detections, prosecutions, or convic-
tions made by the constabulary from those made by the
revenue police : and of the number of persons confined
in each gaol in Irelaeld for offences against the laws for
the suppression of illicit distillation in each of the years
18;3, 1854, and 1855.—Agreed to.
CIEURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL.

Sir W. CLAY proposed the second reading this
bill, which was, except in one particular, the same as
that be introduced last session, and which was read a
second time. This was a question bearing more on civil
and religions liberty than on the amount of pecuniary
relief involved. After referring to his former arguments
in support of the bill of last session, he said he thought the
arguments in favour and against it had been exhausted,
and that it was beyond the reach of human intellect to
discover anything new to be said upon it. The recent
decision in the House of Lords in the Braintree case
had altered the aspect of this question by deciding that
a good rate could only be made by the consent of a ma-
jority of the rate-payers. The law was, therefore, vir-
tually abolished, and in many towns since that decision
a church rate had been refused. In many places the rate
was submitted to, but sooner or later the levying of a
rate in those places would be contested, and those ill-
feelings and heart-burnings that had existed in other places
would be the inevitable consequence. From a return of
238 rural parishes, he found that in 109 the rate was
opposed, and in 129 it was carried. Out of that num-
ber, in 99 cases the payment of the rate was refused.
In 66 instances where a rate was levied, only 23
places submitted to it, and 14 places where it was en-
forced. Therefore-, out of 99 places where rates had
been agreed to, there were only 47 places where the
rate had been really paid. 'The hon. member then
alluded to what had been attempted for a change of
the law, and said that he was right in assuming that
there was a large portion of the people who considered
the levying of church rates an injustice, and a con-
viction in the minds of all that the law could nct
remain in its present state. He considered the
change proposed by the bill of the Marquis of
Blandferd, and also those by convocation, neither of
which he thought would have the desired effect, and
said that nothing would satisfy the public but the abo-
lition of church rates. Having referred to the heads of
the bill, he said that the cry raised of the Church of
England being the national Church he looked upon as
idle words, because that Church was not empowered,
in a national sense, in any way to levy a tax on those
who differed from her. It was not a national Church
in the sense of the word that there was no other Church
in the country. If the Government admitted of no other
form of religion it would justify the Church in deriving her
revenue by force from all those who were not her mem-
bers, bat net otherwise. The Church of England was
a great and venerable institution of the country— dear
to the people for many reasons, and she had been re-
spected through many ages. The hon, member next
proceeded to remark on the statements of the opponents
of the bill, that if the church rate were abolished, there
would be no means of keeping up the fabrics,
which be combated, and read a statement show-
ing the large sums that had been spent in
building churches from the voluntary contributions of
her members. The Church of England was one of the
richest ecclesiastical corporations in existence, and pro-
bably her members were the richest class of any. If the
members of that church could not maintain the fabrics
that had been handed down to them by their forefathers,
by contributing a small sum to maintain them, but must
force a paltry contribution from those who never entered
within the walls of that Church, then, Churchman as he
was, he felt that the Church of England was unworthy
to exist, if she had but so slight a hold on the feelings
and affections of the people. (Year.) Toe hon. gentle-
man referred to the opinion of Lord John Russell on
church rates, which he enunciated in a speech last
session, and in which he expressed his fears that an
injury would be done to the Church by the abolition
of church rates, and cautioned the house against any
great changes. He (Mr. Clay) thougbt these words
of caution were unnecessary, because they bad been
used en all occasions when any great change was
about to be made, such as during the discussion of
the repeal of the Test and Corporation Act,
Catholic emancipation, free trade, &c., yet the
constitution never rested on a firmer basis than now,
nor was the oonntry ever more prosperous. (Hear,
hear.)
The motion having been seconded,
Lord J. MANNERS moved the second reading that
day six months. He considered the bill before the
house did not merit the approbation and support of the
house for the remedy of the grievance complained of,
and he based his opposition to it upon the fullest and
broadest acknowledgment of the grievance that had been
stated to exist by the hon. mover of the second reading
of the bill. There was nothing in the bill or the
preamble making reference to the grievance complained
of, whilst its enacting powers would impose a real
grievance on all Churchmen. (Hear.) The bill pro-
posed to make provision in lieu of church rates, and he
took provision to mean something that should exist ;
but it was impassible to call voluntary contributions a
thing on which to depend. The grievance complained
of in the continuance of this law was no greater, if so
great, than that which existed in reference to the
support of the other institutions of the country.
The noble lord then examined the clauses of the bill,
and in the course of his remarks said, that of the
700,0001. levied for church rates, 600,000/. were paid
by Churchmen. He looked upon this hill as one more
applicable to pepuleue towns than to rural parishes.
Sir 8. NORTHCOTE seconded the amendment. He
admitted Dissenters and Churchmen had grievances to
complain of under the present system, but the bill of the
hon, baronet did not provide a satisfactory remedy for
these grievances. This bill was not to apply to Scotland
and Ireland, and looking at the present state of the law
in Scotland, he WAS of opinion that this bill
had been introduced not for the purpose of
providing religions freedom, but if possible to obtain
peace. So far from that being accomplished, he (Sir S.
Northcote) considered the bill would introduce discord
into parishes where it did net at present exist. The
taunt had been thrown out, were your wealthy mem-
bers of the Church, if church rates were abolished, not
ready to come forward to maintain the fabric of the
Church. Of course they were, but it would be done by
the organisation of some central association, who
would have a control over the distribution of
the funds, and that would tend to the denationalising
of the Church, by shaking the confidence of the parish-
ioners in the Church, from their having no voice in its
management. He objected to their having recourse to
voluntary contributions and then putting their manage-
ment into the hands of certain auditors for distribution.
. He also expatiated on the evils that would result to the
parishioners and the Church by relying on voluntary
contributions instead of church rates in parishes where
the landowner was a Roman Catholic.
Sir G. GREY said that the house had a right to know
the course the Government would take in refer-
ence to this bill, He said it was surrounded
with
sufficient difficulty to 'permit its beingconsidered
separate from the law with reference to
in Scotland, but as it affected
th e noble lord
had omitted to notice the existing state of the law
with reference to church rates' and that there was
no ground for the abolition of this rate being
consi-
dered spoliation or confiscation. If these rates b
were
abolished,
the Church of England
would be found
to rest on ties stronger than that connected with
church rate that would entitle her to the deneeenst.i a
Of being the national Church. He considered that the
recent decision of the House of Lords had virtually abo-
lished this rate, but that was not such a remedy as those
who approved of church rates thought sufficient. That
state of the law was unsatisfactory. Of the various
schemes that had been Propounded for the modification
of church rates by the friends cf the Church, in almost
all of them there was that radical defect that they
might go to those towns where a compromise
had been come to, and make a rate that might reconcile
the opponents to it, but which he thought would ho
foaled to fail, and give rise again to strife and dissension,
which now had happily ceased in those towns. These
being abolished in those towns, the law might be con-
sidered to be virtually abolished ; but the Government
would not give their consent to the immediate and total
abolition of church rates throughout the king-
dom, but that the principle of abolition, as
the principle of this bill, should be recognised and sanc-
tioned, the abolition of church rates in all those plaees
where they had been discontinued for a limited
period—Gies of " Oh, oh")—but of sufficient time
to indicate that the parishioners had decided the
rate should not be levied in future, and which was
in accordance with the principle of a bill introduced
last Session into the 4.fouse of Lords by the Arch-
bishop of Canterbury. Cie thought no objection would
be raised to the admission of the noble lord who moved
the amendment, that Dissenters ought to be relieved
from the rate, but that if be took advantage of that
ozoreptiois he ought not thlreafter to be permitted to