The Sun.
London, England, 1856-07-23 00:00:00

vernment were disposel to make any inquiry during the
recess into the state of the judicial establishments in
Weitminster-hall, particularly into the present number
of ju,lges, especially taking into view the immense relief
and diminution of busine-s: in Westminster-hall, which
hid been brought about by the establishment of County

Courts.
Sir G. GREY said that from infdrmation he had ob-
tained he found that the civil bu-iness in the Superior
Courts had not decreased as was anticipated, nor had it
diminished on circuit, except in one or two instances.
The question of reducing the number of judges was one
requiring grave considenution, because in addition to
civil business they had the criminal business of the coun-
try to attend to, and he had received several commu-
nications from Glsnorganshire, complaining of inconve-
nience from one judge onlle being sent there on circuit
business. At present there was but one learned judge
in town, the others being :fully occupied on circuit. He
would consider the matter during the recess.
Several verbal amendments were agreed to in the bill,
and clauses added.
Mr. HADFIELD moved the addition of the follow.
ing clause :—" Clerks articled to attorneys or solicitors
may, after serving two years under articles, and with
consent of their masters, appear as advocates ;
the clerk to any attoraey or solicitor who has
already been, or who hereafter shall become
articled to such attorney or solicitor, and who may have
served two years under his articles with such attorney
or solicitor, may appear as advocate on behalf of any
party to any proceedings in the County Court, on pro-
ducing to the registrar of the court his articles, and also
a certificate from his master that he consents thereto ;
and the attorney to whom. such clerk is or may be arti-
cled shall be entitled to the same fees as if he had per-
sonally attended the said court, provided that the clerk
shall be subject to the same rules and regulations as
attorneys now are or hereafter may be subject to."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL resisted the clause
on the ground that these courts ought not to be dealt
with as schools for professional education. In no court
of law were persons who were qualifying themselves for
a particular status allowed to exercise the functions of an
advocate. The courts of law exercised control over ad-
mitted attorneys, but they had no control over attor-
neys' clerks. Under all circumstances, he thought it
desirable that this clause should be rejected.
Sir J. GRAHAM opposed the clause on public
grounds, and as regarded the interests of the public,and
not with reference to the educational part of the
question.
After some remarks from Mr. Stafford, Mr. Glad-
stone, Mr. Craufurd, Sir E. Perry, Mr. Mullings, and
Mr. Fitzroy, in the course of which it was stated that
agents, not professional men, were allowed by the judge
to attend in these courts for plaintiffs or defendants, but
that they had no power to award him a fee as in the case
of an attorney.
The clause was ultimately withdrawn.
Mr. HADFIELD then moved the following clause :
" Any attorney may act for another attorney concerned
in any plaint or action, or in advocating in court for him
in case of illness, absence from home, distant residence,
and other special grounds or reasons."
Mr. ROEBUCK opposed the clause. It was intended
to do away, by a side wind, with the interference of
barristers. If it was desirable to do that, let it be done
openly, and not in this covert manner.
After some discussion, the clause was negatived with-
out a division.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved there-insertion
of the clause permitting a registrar or assistant clerk to
reside out of the district under special grounds and by
consent of the Lord Chancellor ; or, when the district
is within the Duchy of Lancaster, by the consent of the
Chancellor of the Duchy, but his office to be within the
district. He thought the house ought not to call
upon the registrars of populous districts such as
Shoreditch and Bethnal-green to reside within them.
After some discussion the clause was negatived with-
out a division.
Mr. ROEBUCK complained that the clause referring
to the retiring allowance to be given to County Court
clerks had been altered since the bill passed through
committee, from one-fourth to one-third.
The SPEAKER said the alteration could be made
without notice. "
Sir JAMES GRAHAM—Then the matter being
now passed, is beyond our control.
Mr. WILSON wished to explain.
The SPHAKER—It cannot now be discussed.
Sir J. GRAHAM—Then I cannot sufficiently express
both my surprise and sorrow, that so important an alte-
ration should have been made without previous notice.
The SPEAKER—The bon. member can refer to it on
the question that the bill do pass.
The remaining clauses, after some discussion on vari-
one amendments, principally of a verbal character, were
agreed to.
On the question that the bill do pass,
Mr. WILSON entered into a detailed statement with
reference to the position of the clerks in the Government
getting rid of the plurality of courts, and stated that the
vested interests of the clerks in these courts, considering
they had resigned their private practice on taking these
offices, and the justice of the case, demanded that the
retiring allowance should be one-third instead of one-
fourth. The increase in amount would be small, but
would not increase the existing charges which were paid
out of the fees of the courts.
Sir J. GRAHAM said if it had not been too late he
should have moved the reduction of the amount one-
fourth, believing that a sufficient retiring allowance.
He deprecated the change that had been made, and con-
sidered it contrary to the rules of the house.
The SPEAKER said that in accordance with the
rules of the house the amendment had been irregularly
introduced into the bill, and he cancelled it accordingly.
The retiring allowance was then altered to one-fourth,
as agreed to in committee.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
VICE-PRESIDENT OF COMMITTEE OF COUN-
CIL ON EDUCATION BILL.
Oa the motion that this bill be read a third time,
Mr. HENLEY moved that it be read a third time
that day three months. He saw no object to be gained
in the appointment of a new functionary before a gene-
ral system of education was proposed.
Mr. GL ADSTONE supported the amendment, and
condemned what appeared to be a growing evil in that
house, viz., that of creating offices before defining the
duties to be performed. By adopting the bill the house
would be sanctioning a bad precedent, because the new
functionary would be lightly worked and very much
overpaid. Instead of its being a department with one
responsible head there would be two Privy Councillors
working cheek by jowl with a divided responsibility.
Sir G. GREY supported the third reading of the bill.
It was introduced at the request of the house, and in
accordance with the promise of the First Lord of the
Treasury, to meet the view of the house on the necessity
of their being a minister for education in that house.
The objections of whether that minister should be known
as a privy councillor or a secretary, or paid 2,0001. per
annum, or 1,5001., were details which could be altered
in the next session of Parliament.
Mr. NAPIER was in favour of the appointment of a
responsible minister for education in that house, but he
objected to the provisions of the present bill, which
would have the effect of widening the breach between
Vie two countries.
Mr. H. VERNON considered it would be sufficient
to appoint a secretary, because the officer referred to
would have to carry out the wishes of Parliament and
not devise some brilliant scheme of education. If the
hon. member for Oxfordshire went to a division he (Mr.
Vernon) should support him.
Mr. HADFIELD opposed the third reading of the
bill.

Mr. V. SMITH said there appeared to be a wrong
impression existing with reference to this bill. It was
not introduced for the appointment of an officer to carry
out either of the many schemes discussed this session
that might bare been adopted by the house, but for the
creation of an office in connection with education, the
holder of which should be a metober of the house, and
carry ont their views on that question.
Mr. A. PE LLATT objected to the bill on the ground
that it was inexpedient to appoint an officer before the
duty of his office had been defined. He called on the
house to reject the bill.
After some remarks from Mr. NEWDEGATE and Mr.
HEY WOOD,
Sir J. GRAHAM said nothing but necessity should
induce then to consent to the addition of paid servants
of the house. He looked with extreme jealousy on
these additions, and regretted that (luring the last ton
years they had greatly increased. He should support
the amendment.
The house then divided when the numbers were
For the second reading
Against it 35
Majority for the third reading
Mr. HADFIELD then moved that the duties of this
office should be extended to Ireland.
Sir G. GREY said that if the amendment was carried
it would be inoperative, because by the present law pro-
vision was made for the supervision of education in
Ireland.
The amendment was negatived without a division.
The bill was then read a third time and passed.
PROCTORS IN ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS
BILL.
This bill, which was introduced last night by Mr.
HADFIELD, and read a first time, was, after a short dis-
cussion, rejected without a division.
The house suspended its sitting at half•past 3 o'clock.

The sitting was resumed at six o'clock.
Mr. H. F. BERKELEY presented a petition from
the Bristol Chamber of Commerce against the Sound
Dues.

Mr. T. DITNCOMBE presented a petition from
Blackwall against the Lords' amendments to the Metro-
polis Improvement Bill.

The following petitions were also presented :—By Mr.
GREENE, from medical officers of St. Margaret's and St.
John's, Westminster, against the grievances under
which they labour ; by Mr. OTWAY, from the Natives'
AsP•ociation of Madras, on the subject of torture ' • from
the Rane' Themsi, complaining of the seizure of her ter-
ritorieg by the Government of India ; by Dr. MICEELL,
from 78 inhabitants of Wadsley, York, and also from
Jersey, that the Vaccination Bill be repea'ed.
THE BALLOT.

Mr. H. F. BERKELEY gave notice of his inten-
tion early next session to submit a motion to the house
on the subject of the ballot.
AMNESTY TO POLITICAL EXILES.
Mr. T. Dt.J.NCOMBE asked the Secretary of State
for the Home Department whether, under the receLt act
of amnesty granted by her Majesty to all political exiles,
orders have been given for the liberation of the following
ten prisoners convicted of high treason at the York as-
sizes of September, 1820. and transported to Van Die.
men's Land by the ship Lady Ridley in 1821—William
Comstive, William Rice, Richard Addy, Joseph Frith,
Charles Stansfield, John Birkenshaw, 13( njamm Rogers,
Joseph Chapel, Benjamin Hanson, and Michael Down,