The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-07 00:00:00

instruction, or attend any religious worship, to which his er
her parents orguardiaus shall onconscientious grounds object."
Of course when any bill on the subject, empowering rating
for school purposes, is brought forward, it must be dis-
cuss d, and it is possible that the house may come to a
different conclusion from that to which I have arrived
but, while I agree that the grants should be given, as they
have hitherto been, to ail these various denominations,
youwould not treat fairly all classes if you did not, on the
one hand, require that the Scriptures should be read in the
schools, - and, on the other, give full freedom to the parents
to withhold their children from receiving it. After this
part of the subject comes a difficulty to which I have al-
ready adverted, and which is one of the greatest difficulties
connected with the question, and that is, tho subject
of the attendance of children at schools after the age
of ten or eleven years. The house, I believe, will entirely
agree with me in thinking that the education of a child
which is to end at the age of nine or ten is not likely to
impress the minds and hearts of the growing generation.
I believe that all must agree that it is desirable that every
means should be used to secure the attendance of children
between the ages of 10 and H. With regard to a portion
of the community there have been already enactments,
and Mr. Horner has pointed out, in a late report, that they
have been entirely successful. I allude to those enactments
of the Factory Act which require the attendance of chil-
dren at school during some portion or other of their time.
Mr. Homer says, not only that the system has been stle•
ceesful, bat he says, what has been confirmed by others
conversant with the working of the schools in question,
that the children who attend, some for half the day, and
many more who attend in the afternoon, bestow each in-
tense attention on their lessens that they are fully compe-
tent to compete with others who attend for whole days in
the schools, for the office of school teachers. If that is the
case, there may be cases in which there should be enact-
ments by which children might be sent half the day to
school and half the day to work, or there might be enact-
ments by which an employer should be compelled to give
certain days in the year for the attendance of children at
schools. It has been stated by more than one of the in-
spectors that the employers not only do not give facilities
for the children's attendance at schools, but there are many
cases in which it is made a condition with the boys and
children employed that they should notattend schools, and
thus they are entirely debarred from receiving the benefits
of education. There is, perhaps, a difficulty in framing such
an enactment, but I propose in my next resolution that " it
shall be incumbent on the employers of young children be-
tween the ages of 9 and 15 to give certificates half-yearly of
the attendance of those children in schools, and that they
should pay for such instruction." With regard to the last
part of the resolution, I may say that I find that a noble lord
who is a great employer of labour—a noble lord who is
a most enlightened man, and who has always shown a
great regard for the welfare of those who work for him—
I mean Lord Ellesmere—has provided that all !children
under a certain age in his works shall contribute 6d. a week
for the purposes of schools which are established and which
they attend, and I do not see that it is impossible or unrea-
sonable that what Lord Ellesmere doe. of his own free will
for the benefit of these persons who work for him should
also be done in the case of every one under the authority
of Parliament. There remains, however, a large class of
children with whom it is still more difficult to deal, I mean
that class I have before alluded to, of children between 10
and 15, who neither go to school nor work, who are not eat-
ployin any way, but idle about the streets and fields.
Ido net think it is possible—l should he very glad if it
were—to compel the parents of those children to send them
to school. By no enactment is it possible to reach that part
of the population of Birmingham or Sheffield, where a large
number of children are never attendants at school. But it
is possible to go so far as toascertainthereason why parents
do not send boys to schools who earn no wages ; and it is
perhaps that they are too poor and cannot bear the expense,
and thus often children between 8 and 10 who have been
at school are taken away. "I know, from the reports of
schools in this neighbourhood—that in the Borough-road,
for instance—that many parents would be glad to have their
children who are not employed receiving instruction in
schools, and so kept out of the mischief and danger of the
streets. If it could be made possible, I should be glad that
every child between 8 and 11 years of age, when not em-
ployed, should be enabled to receive some education. There
is vne scheme which has been adopted in Staffordshire,
which is called by Mr. Tremenheere the prize scheme ;
that is, a system of giving prizes to those children who re-
m tin at school after a certain age. Another way might be
that, in case of the children remaining after 12 or 13, the
school fees should be diminished. Another way might be
to have evening schools ' • and there isanother way, in which
my hon. friend near me (Mr. Evart) wih, I am sure, agree
with me, and that is by 'inviting young men to attend
libraries adapted to their capacities, which would contri-
bute at once to their amusement and instruction, and con-
duce to the keeping up of the arts of reading and writing,
which they have learnt in early ago, and which otherwise
would have boon given up. Not long ago I had a conver-
sation with a clergyman of Oxfordshire, who had estab-
lishes a village library, whichhe told me was most success-
ful. A room was lighted up in the evening and furnished
with books and periodicals, and tea and coffee provided
for those who could afford to have them, and he found it
was fully attended by the eons of labour. I think that
some such provisions might be put in force in the first in-
stance by the Committee of the Privy Council, and after
that by means of enactmeut. I propose, therefore, as my
last resolution, " that it is expedient to encourage by means
of prizes, by the diminishing of school fees, and by the
establishment of libraries, the instruction of young per eons
between the ages of 12 and 15." These are the resolutions
en which I found the proposals on this great subject which
I shall make to the house. Whether the resolutions are
adopted or not, I believe they are at all events calculated
to reach the whole extent of the case. I think that I
ought not to have attempted less. If any ono can do it
better, let him do it; but I believe that in the present
state of the world and the state of the country,
no one ought to attempt less than a complete
education of the people. I have heard much of
dangerous classes; bat Lbelieve there is 110 class more dan-
gerous than that which acquires a little reading and a little
knowledge without any instruction in religion or any
knowledge of the political institutions of the country. I
believe that if Parliament was to provide by law for the
education of the young, those very ci sees might become
the support of all our institutions, correcting them where
they are defective, examining them with a jealous and sus-
picious eve lest abuses should exist in them, but not falling
off from their loyalty to or despising the institutions of thei
forefathers. I ought to soy that no such plan could be car-
ried out without a considerable increase of expenditure. I
find on looking to various returns, and especially to a work
f Sir John Kaye Shuttieworth, to whom, and to his F rather,
Mr. Elle, we owe veryvalnable inferior, dad bv their
repent that 174. a-year is the calculated expense of each
child in attendance at the schools already established, Sir
James Kaye Shuttleworth eels that Isis, each is the ex•
pease taking away the cost of the house in which the
schoolmaster lives. If I.Bs. a-year is the expense of each
child, you could not educate the 3,000,000 children of
whom I have spoken fora less snot than 3,210,00 J/. a-year.
Rut that sum might be contributed in various ways—by
subscriptions, by school-pence,by charitable donation, by
endowments, and by rates. tis not a large sum as com-
pared with the sum given by foreign countries for this ob-
ject, or as compared with the greatness of the object in
view. I have now stated what 1 think is the be,t plan for
a system of general education. If a better can be adopted
let it be adopted, but I do hope that ere long the legisla-
lature will undertake to deal with the subject of national
education, and not allow religious differences or financial
considerations to stand In the way of raising the religious,
moral, and political character of this country, and that
some such plan an 1 have indicated will ere long be adopted.
(" Heir, hear," and cheers.)
Mr. HENLEY said hp felt certain the house would agree
with him in thanking the noble lord for the clear and lucid
spanner is which he had brought this question forward.
(Cheats.) He did not mean to enter into a discussion o
the question then, as the noble lord hail stated it was not
his intention to ask the house to express au opinion that
night on the resolutions he had submitted to them ; but
there were several points on which he wished to has e
tome further information--that of the financial part, awl
the manner in which he proposed to deal with that large
class who did not go to school at all. He (Mr. Henley)
had heard with satisfaction the expression of opinion from
the noble lord, who was a great authority on the question,
that whatever system be adopted, it must be bas.-d on the
great principles of Christianity. (Loud cheers.) There
were no parents in the country but could readily under-
stand the benefit of their children learning the elements
of arithmetic, with reading and writing, but if they
added the elements of certain sciences, and a competent
knowledge of political economy—(laughter)—they might
talk for a week before they made parents of the bumbler
classes understand what they meant. It was no use saying
to a man, do not take yotir child away from school at ten
years, because if he remains he will be taught those
sciences. He would probably reply—sir, my boy can earn
4s. a-week. I do understand the necessity of filling the
child's belly, but political economy is a thing I do not un-
derstand, therefore I think it better to let him earn some I
money. He (Mr. Henley) did not think the noble lord had
at all overstated the number of children who did not at-
tend school ; he thought he had rather understated it. He
should be glad to give the resolutions all the consideration
which their importance demanded, as well as on account of
the character and ability' of the noble lord who introduced
them to the house. But he thought the noble lord hail
gone somewhat oat of his immediate object in dealing with
the charities of England. The no blelord's plan opened a
wide door for such a diversion-of funds from the charities
as might in some persons' minds appear something like
spoliation. (Hear.) The noble lord, in touching upon the
subject, was hardly fair upon honourable and learned mem-
bers of that house, from whom they received the greatest
possible assistance. lie said that, "in consequence of the
large infusion of the. Chancery element in that and the
other House of Parliament, he was hopeless of getting any
such matter satisfactorily arranged to his mind." He (Hr.
Henley) thought such an assertion unworthy of the noble
lord. He thought the principle of the Chancery element
in that house was the principle of human justice. The
house had sanctioned that principle of justice which the
Chancery element had brought so prominently before it.
He believed that the reason why that element had induced
the Houses of Parliament not to sanction the spoliation of
charitice, had no such motive as that attributed to it by
the noble lord. The noble lord, in his eight or nine resolu-
tions, had given them a thesis ler larger than they were
able to master without mature consideration, they should
therefore be better able to discuss the question when he
should please to invite them. It was a subject iron
Which they all had but, one interest, that of doing what
vast best for the humbler classes of their feli.'ene-couatry-
men, that they might have their moral anet intellectual fa-
culties developed so as to be able to "elldischarge their
them
duty ill the station to which it hati pleased God to call
.

Lord R. GrROSVEI,.TOR, In calling the attention of the
house to a portion of the system of education which tho
noble lord below him had not noticed, begged to thank him
for the manner in which he had brought the question be-
fore the house. He did not think the noble lord hal at-
tempted too much ; if the question had not been brought
in its bearings before the house, they should have been
inkdequately prepared to enter into a general diseusiien.
The hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Healey) had complained
of introducing the elements of sci.,,nc„,.d
politi :al eco-
nomy into the primary schools .)f the conut:y. Ile con-
curred with the hon. gentler:fan that that was a fault in
their system of education. He should like to see the con-
tinental system followed of primary schools, and others of
a higher character, where when talent developed' itself in
the primary school's it might be cultivated and obtain the
position of respectability to which it was entitled, and where it might be available for the benefit of the commu-
nity. In consequence of the want of these schools in this
country the talent of the lower classes remained without
being brought forward. He hoped the nobl3 lord would
not lose sight of that Point in any measure he might bring
forward. The neeegeity of educating the lower classes was
so-imperative that 1,0 really thought some compulsory eye?.
tenrofsenforcing tlitatfenlance of their children would be
justifiable.- He 4,bnught also that the plan of not allowing
misters to eaiGoy I.:boLucis 7,11.) did IPA p.53:53 a Cal tili•

cate of attendance at school might be resorted to with ad-
vantage. The employment of evening schools was also
an object of great importance in any system of national
education, and he trusted that in the discussion which
would take place on the matter those points would be
fully considered.
Mr. ADDERLEY thought the merit of the noble lord's
resolutions was that they were not new. After having led
the house for many years through resolutions and select
committees to consider the subject in every possible shape,
he now led them back to his original form of resolution.
There were many modes of arriving at a complete system
of national education, and he (Mr. Adderley) had hoped,
when the great and important city of Manchester some
years ago petitioned Parliament to be allowed to rate itself
for the purpose of education within the city, that Pal lia-
meat would have seen the wisdom of trying a great national
question in a locality which was ready to solve that ques-
tion for the rest of the country. If they had made up
their minds to abandon the system of local rates as a basis
for national education, they could tot do better than adopt
the noble lord's proposal of grants out of the Consolidated
Fend. He did not think the Privy Council system of grants
in aid so fitted for a free country as the plan of local rates,
but as the plan of local rates was supposed to involve reli-
gious difficulties, they 'could not do better than fall balk
upon the system which was already established. He hoped
the noble lord would abandon the last part of his scheme ; if
he did, he thought the thanks of the country would be due
to him for having suggested a practical plan. He thought
the standard of eucation too high; to secure the attend-
ance of children the parents must, understand that what
their children were being taught would be of practical
value to them in their after life. Only let that be done,
and the difficulty of non-attendance would be surmouuted.
The first portion of the noble lord's suggestions was most
desirable—the proposal to codify the minutes of the Privy
Council of Education was a great improvement on what
bad been done the year before. He supposed the proposal
of adding 80 subordinate school inspectors to the 30 inspec-
tors already existing was necessary for efficiently carrying
out the Byte's, but that branch of the question would re-
quire much consideration, for it was -of the highest impor-
tance that the system of inspectorship should be adequate.
If the noble lord contended manfully with the diffi-
culty of charitable fends, he would cause money to
be employed usefully which was then employed in doing
mischief. To compel employers to give certificates, and.
send children employed by them to school, was a most' va-
luable suggestion, but he doubted whether it was applicable
to agricultural districts. As he had before observed, he
thought that part of the bill which related to the matter
of rates would involve the noble lord in religious diffieul-
ties. He hoped the noble lord would disembarass his mea-
sure of the portion respecting libraries and evening classes.
If the taste for reading were created libraries would follow
of themselves.
Mr. J. E. DENISON thanked the noble lord for the
complete measure he had submitted. The advantage of
his resolutions was, that they enabled all to start with com-
plete satisfaction. In contemplating the questieu it had
occurred to him that the only practical course for the house
to take was to commence, as the noble lord had suggested,
by examining the minutes of the Privy Council ; he had
proposed that those minutes should be revised and consoli-
dated. The noble lord stated that he would not enter into
the examination of those minutes, because there would be
other Opportunities of doing so. He (Mr. Denison) would
point out where he thought these minutes might be
amended. The intention of public grants of asssistance by
public money was, that the most destitute would receive
the assistance of the State ; but, aecoidiug to the rules of
the Committee of Privy Council, those who were not able
to help themselves could not receive any assistance from
the State. If, for instance, a poor parish or district raised
a small sum, but not equal to the ' whole sum requited,
the Committee of. Privy Council said no, this money was
not raised entirely in the locality, therefore the committee
can only raise your local sum •by an equal amount. He
thought that if a palish came forward with the requisite
amount it was not necessarytoscrutiuise the source whence
that fund was obtained. Again, no aid could be granted
fora school without s certificated schoolmaster. The fact of a
man's holding a certificate was no test of his being the best
man to instruct chiloren in a parish school. All would
admit the importance of evening schools in enabling young
people to retain and add to what they had acquired before,
and one of the minutesof the Privy Council offered the sum
ot 101. to assist schoolmasters to establish evening schools,
hut again the same restrictions, no assistance to evening
schools if the master of the day school class did not boll a
urtificate. He thought that a relaxation of those rules
would be an advantage. The system of half-time, hitherto
acted on only in the manufactaring districts, he knew could
he carried out in agricuitulal parishes, for a Casa had come
under his own observati,eu in which, although the children
had only half time at school, they had made as much pro-
gress as those whq had been continuously. He thought to
whatever ext'ant the house might sanction the resolutions,
they woisld promote general if not national education.
Mr. Oa BUTT felt the evils of the present system of
charities to be a subject to which every one would admit
that a remedy should be applied. • When the present act
instituting the board of charity commissioners waspassed,
it was intended that they should have final and judicial
power to dispose of all matters connected with small cha-
rities. He would suggest that there was no difficulty in deal-
ing with the question. Were not the present commissioners
competent to dispose of such matters without an appeal
which would have the effect of swamping the charity. He
hoped that when the noble lord came to legislate on the
matter ho would, by two or three short clauses, give this ju-
risdiction to the charity commissioneis, and thus save these
charities from being swallowed up in litigation. (Hear )
Mr. ROEBUCK said that the noble lord had propounded
a scheme of national education. Helad done so himself 23
years, though without success. lie hoped the noble lord
would have greater success, though he had great doubts,
for he found that he was met by the sauce difficulties which
had impeded every other educational reformer. The noble
lord hid stated that it was impossible to separate religious
from national education ; and that the only way to teachb
morals was to teach them as based on Christianity. Now
he differed with the noble lord on this point, for the fact
was, that there had been morals long before there was any
Christianity; and there were mora men who were not
Christians- It was dear, therefore, that it was possible to
teach morals without teaching any particular form of
Christianity. The object of education was to fashion the
intellectual and moral man so as to make an individual a
good father, son, husband, or citizen. If it did not do
that, but merely inw.ructed the intellectual man, no good
was done. The man merely became a more fitting instiat-
went for evil. What he wanted to give to the young was,
thcrefcre, first, an intell-cteal, then a moral, and then a
religious education. Now, as to the intellectual educa-
tion, there was little dispute. Every one agreed that its
object ought to he to strengthen the intellectual part of
man, and to teach him how to conquer nature and snake
the best use of his powers. Now, with respect to morals.
It was a remarkable thing that the moral code of every
sect was pretty nearly the same. In fact, they depended
On the civilisation of the country. The moral cede of the
Christian of the present day was as different from that of
the Christian of the eleventh century, as the moral code of
England was from that of Hindoostan. A ,Jew, a Uni-
tarian,u Presbyterian, a Church of England, and a Catho-
lic child, would all receive the same moral training, and if
so, it was clear that the moral code of the country was
settled, and it was that which made the moral man.
What then did religion do ? It had no doubt done much
to fashion the moral code, but it was now only employed
as.a sanction, and in that all those various ieligious bodies
agreed. Therfore you could make a man religious in
piiit without making him one ;of any peculiar sect,
and you could ire -o tics religious 7teaching to the ex-
' teat he had mentioned without introducing that on
which there would he any difference of opinion. But
when the inoble lord proposed to allow the reading of '
the Bible in his schools, he would shut out many children,
and would make his system far from national. If for
example a child asked for an explanation of a verse in
the Gospel of St. John, it would not be given without in-
volving doctrinal points; and then the system clearly
ceased to be national. That being his view of the matter,
he was for giving a good secular edu3ation, and for teaching
children the great moral doctrines with their physical,
moral, and religious sanctions. He believed that it was
necessary to have a more general sy.tem of education than we had at present ; and as he was convinced that it would be impossible to induce the country to sanction any which I
was characterise 1 by sectarianism, lie was himself in favour I
of the secular system.
Sir J. PAKINGTON agreed that this was not the occa-
sion to discus the propositions of the noble lord, but could
not let the discussion close without thanking him for the
able, temperate, and impression manner in which he had
addressed the house on this importanttsubject. He thon,ght
the noble lord had exercised a wise discretion in the form
in which he had submitted his plan to the house, for he had
himself felt the difficulty which ever attended a private
member's attempt to pass a measure on such a subject
through the house. Ho had never expected to pass that
measure through the house last session, but he was well
rewarded for the trouble he had taken if he had been in any
degree instrumental in bringing about the establishment
of a recognised department of education in the Govern-
' ment. Ho hoped also dust he, had been instrumental in
separating this question from the category of party ques-
tions, and in enabling men sitting iu different parts of the
house toast together on this question. There was one part
of the statement of the noble lord which was put in a man e
nor different from what he had ever heard before. He
stated that 500,000 of the children now at school were
scholars at schools receiving grants from the Privy Coun-
cil. He was very glad to hear that the proportion of
children at school subject to the inspection of the Privy
Council was so large, and it certainly gave him a much
higher idea of the state of education in this country
than he had ever before entertained. In the two main
objects which the noble lord stated as his aim he cor-
dially concurred. He also agreed with the noble lord in
thinking that we should go as far as passible with the pre-
sent system. He should not go into the resolutions of the
noble lord. If any one bad 'a right to complain it was the
noble earl, the Lord President and the future Vice-Presi-
dent of tee Council, since they sketched out a plan which
it would otherwise have been the duty of the department
of education to provide. He could assure the noble lord
that it would be his wish to give them the most careful
consideration, and to support them as far as lies in his
power. With respect to the observations of the lion. and
learned gentleman• who had 'last addressed the house, be
must repeat what he said last year—that when they dis-
cussed the, question of secular education they must not only
consider what was right in itself, but what was practicable
in the present state of feeling of the country. Now, he be-
lieved that the general feeling of the country was, that any
system of education which did not teach children educated
in the common schools their duty to God as well as man,
was one which could not with propriety and advantage be
established. And he believed that So strong was this feel-
ing that no Government could run counter to it. After
expressing his approbation of the resolutions of the noble
lord, which affirmed the principle of an educational rate,
the hon. baronet also expressed his concurrence in those
portions of the noble lord's plan )vhich referred to provi-
sions for compelling children sent to work to attend schcol
for a certain portion of their time. He thought the prin-
ciple was perfectly sound. He again thanked the noble
lord for the introduction of these resolutions, and should
give them as much support as he could. (Hear.)
Mr. M. GIBSON admitted that the noble lord had in-
troduced this subject to the house in a manner adequate to

its vast importance, but he warted to know what proof there
was that the public sentiment was opposed to a system of
secular education ? There had been )78 meetings in 28
counties i❑ England, and in these resolutions were carried
that no system of education should be supported by rates,
except a secular system. Prec;sely the same difficulty would
befelt about, the support. of any system of sectarian rah.
gious education as was now experienced with regard to'
Church-rates, Ho was himself in favour of the eeenlar
9yst,:z2 of education, and he was surpritod to zoo that the

noble lord the member for London, and the hon. baronet
opposite, while insisting on religious instruction, wore yet
willing to reduce it to a shedow—to a degree which ap-
proached as nearly as possible to secular education, and
which no religious man would accept as religious educa-
tion. Ho thought the areument which had been used
against free schools supported by taxes was not valid, for
if the ratepayers supported the school they had a right to
get an equivalent for the rates they paid. The unfair com-
petition with private schoolmasters, with respect to which
apprehension was expressed, did not at present exist, in
consequence of the existence of schools supported by volun-
tary subscriptions. And he did not think that any harm,
but much good, would be done by carrying the principle
one stop further. He should be glad to support any part of
the system propounded by the noble lord which he could,
but he would be no party to the establishment of denomi-
national schools, which would make every parish a scene
of religious strife. He thought it would he better to con-
fine the education given in the national schools to secular
instruction, and let the scholars derive their religious edu-
cation at Sunday-schools and at home. The experience of
the model secular school at Manchester showed that the fact
that children attending a secular school was not inconsis-
tent with their also attending a Sunday-school where they
received religious education. Out of 541 boys at that
school, there were only 61 who did not receive religious in-
struction in connection with the Sunday-schools of some
denomination. He certainly did hope that the noble lord
would not insist on that part of his plan which rendered it
necessary that a system of religious education should be
supported by public rates. If he did, he (Mr. Gibson)
should not be able to support him. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. MIALL, although he differed from the principles
on which the plan of the noble lord was founded, was quite
ready to acknowledge the care and caution with which he
had approached a most difficult subject. He thought, how
ever, that the noble lord had much under-estimated the
amount of the education at present given to the rising
generation. It might be desirable that all children between
certain ages should be at school, but that was impossible
when competition was so severe, and when the parents
were so pressed to obtain the means of livelihood. He ap-
proved of the plan of the noble lord, because it did not lay
down an uniform system, but was capable of being adapted
to the wanes of the different localities. With respect to the
question of religious or secular education, he must say that
although he did not rate very highly the religious educa-
tion at present given in schools, he thought it was of the
highest importance that the schoolmaster should not feel
himself cramped in the communication of instruction, or
in the attempt to exercise a religious influence over the
minds of the scholars. But, whatever might be the merits
of a system of secular education, it was clear that it was
one so much opposed to the feelings of the country that it
would be wholly impracticable to establish it in England.
One great cause why there was not more appreciation of
the benefits of education on the part of the lower classes,
lay in the fact that we did not teach the children in our
schools that which was useful to them in after life. Teach
them " common things ;" let them feel that every day
spent at school was a benefit to them in after life, and he
believed the people would eagerly avail themselves of any
means of education placed at their disposal, and would be
ready to pay for them. He was afraid, looking at the state
of opiniou to that house and in the country, that the 'mule
lord's plan woald fahare the fate of other plans which had
preceded it, and that while the members of that house
were discussing how the people were to be educated the
people would educate themselves. (Hear.)
Sir S. NOItTIICOTE did not think that the provi-
sion of the noble lord with respect to the compulsory
attendance of children at school went far enough. There
was now a movement for compelling the education of cri-
minal children, and the noble lord's plan would tell
with children whose parents took care to send them to
school. But between these two classes there lay a third,
from which the criminal population was mainly recruited,
And these the noble lord's resolutions would not affect.
Now, he feared that unless this were done, the efforts of
those engaged in the reformatory movement woul t be alto-
gether nugatory. An act applying only to Scotland had
been passed last year, which enabled magistrates to send
to school children running about the streets and doing
nothing. It was true that the noble lord propose to hold
out certain inducements to attend school to the class he had
described. . But then, as he only proposed to give them
literary instruction, while it was of main inepoit owe to
give them an industrial training, he must say he did not
think that the plan of the noble lord went far enough, and
he hoped that he would consider whether he could not in-
troduce a resolution more closely applicable to tha case of
these " City Arabs." (Elear.)
Mr. BARNES contended that the cruise of education had
made rapid progress under the voluntary system, and that
it was now less than ever necessary to establish a Govern-
ment system. He did not think that as much had been
done to induce parents to educate their children as might
bo done. If a parent neglected to provide food for the
child, he was taken before the magistrate and compelled
to do so, He did not see why they should not pass an act
laying it down as the duty of a parent to provide education
for his children, and giving similar means for compelling
him to perform that duty. He did not see why, because
certain children did not now go to school, a measure should
be introduced to deal with the children wha did g to school.
He believed that the resolutions of the noble lord would not
touch the class of " City Arabs" who mid been referred to
by the hon. baronet who had spoken last, and that they
would, therefore, totally fail to attain the object which
they had iu view. He was sorry to see that the resolutions
of the noble lord were principally au elaboration of the sys-
tem at present in operation, for he thought it was impos-
sible to read the reports of the educational inspectors
without feeling convinced that it was a failure, both in so
far as it aimed at reaching the poor and at providing for
their tuition a class of teachers and a kind of instruction
suited to them. He hoped that 'if the resolutions were
carried into effect by any enactment they would be consi-
derably modified,
Mr. BIGGS considered that the state of the education
of our working population was a disgrace to us. We were
only fifth and sixth among the States of Europe in this
respect. Now, was it either safe or expedient that this
state of things should continue ? He believed that it was
not ; nor did he think that the difficulties attendant upon
the establishment of a system of national education were
insuperable. There had been great difference of opinion as
to the state of education amongst the population. He had
tested thelown in which he was born, Leicester, and he
found that there was ou.y one child in three between the
ages of five and fifteen who was at school. In Prussia
every child between these ages went to school. Was this
a satisfactory state of things ? But this was not all, fur
the children remained far too short a time at school, while
the instruction given them was of the most unsatisfacto,y
character; iu some of the schools at Leicester writing was
not taught. He was hioseif in favour of a general system
of secular education, which he thought would lay the
foundation of a degree of national greatness and prosperity
greater far than we had yet attained. (Hear, hear.) After
adducing facts and figures to show the extent of ignorance
and of dficiency in our present means of instruction, the
hon. gentleman said that he should support as far as he
could any measure introluced by the Government for the
purpose, of promoting the spread of education ; and with
this view he should be prepared to make large concessions
of his own peculiar opium:: and wishes. (Hear, hear.)
After a few words from Mr. ALCOCK, who complained
of the paltry salaries paid to the roasters,
Lord PALMERSTONSaid—Sir,I am sure the house will
concur with me in the gratifieation I have felt in listening
to the address of the neble lord behind me (Lord John
Russell) upon a subject to which he has for so many years
given his attention. (Hear, hear.) I think the course he
has adopted is the best be could take under the circum-
stances, namely, to snoreit these resolutions, and abetain
from calling upon the house for the expression of any opi-
nion at this moment. lam sure these resolutions will re-
ceive the attention that they deserve, and upon some future
day the house will be asked to come to some definite deci-
sion upon the subject. There is an old saying that those
who will the end must also will the means, but :hat maxim
,will not apply in the present case. There is no one who
wills the great end of popular education more earnestly than
my noble friend, and I may say that the will of the coun-
try tends to the same object. The great difficulty is the
moans by which this is 'to be accomplished. cut of the
many and various opinions that have been advanced during
this debate, some agreeing with the views of my noble
friend, and some differing from him, I think we may ex-
tract this fact, that there is a, unanimous desire that, some
arrangement may be come to. It has been said that the
lower classes do not sufficiently appreciate the value of
education for their children, butt think their omitting to
send their children to school may be explained without
imputing to them any absence of a proper desire to edu-
cate their children. Unfortunately, the education hitherto
afforded them has not been that which would be useful to
children of that class in after life, In some schools they
are taught things totally incompatible with their condi-
tion. (Hear, hear.) In others, they are set to learn the
principles of political economy, matters certainly of
great nee to those who are ,called upon to apply them
in practice, but to the labouriag classes far beyond the
requirements of their future "occupation and position.
The great object should be to teach them useful things,
applicable -to the industrial pursuits in which they may
hereafter be engaged. We have various opinions as to
the degree to which intellectual culture should be
elided to moral and religious instruction. I think,
for my own part, that if you do not unite those things,
you do not accomplish the true purpose of education.
Unfortunately that last point,•religious education, is the
rock upon which all parties have split; but it is to be
hoped that some principle, which may overcome thiseliffi-
culty, will, before long, be settled and brought into prac-
tice. Several hon. gentlemen have taken comprehensive
views of this matter that certainly appear calculated to
lead to this very desirable end. I will only say further,
that I have to thank my noble friend (Lord J. Russell) cot
only for the able address with which he has favoured the
house this evening, but for the many years of labour he
has devoted to this most important su'decte The efforts he
has made will always be honourable to himself, and I be-
lieve they have been of very great advantage to the country.
Mr. HADFIELD considered this as only another addi-
, tion to the many millions of good resolutions that had
brought forth nothing. He believed that Government in-
terference had done more to retard popular education than
any other:cease. It stopped those voluntary efforts which
had produced most mighty effects when left alone. It was
idle to say the working clews did not want education.
There were 450 millions of letters went through the Post-
office annually, and who wrote them? Not the upper or
middle classes, but clerks, sprung chiefly from the class
this education was intended for. In 1818 there were
477,299 children attending day schools, and in 1851 (four
years ago) there were 2,407,416, of whom 2,100,000 at-
tended Sunday schools. The children attended Sunday
schools, and there was the greatest confidence in the
'teachers, who received not a farthing of remuneration.
In fact, no class of persons was more respected by the
working classes. How was it the children did not go to the
slay schools more ? There was no lack of schools or school
room ; in fact there was an excess; but these pretended
Government arrangements did all the evil, and prevented
private efforts. One gentleman in Scotland, Mr. Fergus-
son, had left 400,000/. for the education of children in
Scotland, and many more world follow his example if
they were left alone,
Mr. STAFFORD said that statistics in connection with
education were fallacious. The amount of money which
was voluntarily contributed towards education was much
greater than that which appet red in the blue books, and
an injustice was thereby done to the clergy and country
gentlemen for their exertions in this direction.
Lord J. RUSSELL thanked the house for the reception
they had given his resolutions. He did not expect that
they would have been received without dissent, and with
regard to the question of secular education, he thought the
house would not adopt it. (Hear.) The friends of volun-
tary education had tried their system for 150 years, and it
had been found to be a failure. He eulogised the advan-
tages of Sunday schools, and said that with regard to the
proposal he had laid before tla, house, it had been sug-
gested to him that it would he better to consider these .re-
soltitions in a committee of the whale house; and, in con-
sequence, he proposed- to. withdraw the resolution before
the Louse, and WM. inteail that the whole of them be

Emily Ryder, 21, a very good-looking and lady-like
young woman, was indicted for the wilful murder of
Frank Withers Ryder.
• The prisoner, ,who appeared in deep distress, was
seated during the trial.
Mr. Platt prosecuted. The prisoner was defended by
Mr. Ballantine.
The counsel for the prosecution, in his opening address
to the jury, said that the case they were about to in-
quire into was a very different one from that which had
just been disposed of. The unfortunate young lady at
the bar was a married woman, in a very respectable
position of life, and lad. husband was a commercial
traveller. The child whose death was the subject of
inquiry was the first the prisoner had had, and, although
he was fearful there could be no doubt that it bad met
its death at her hand, yet he felt compelled to state at
the same time that the evidence would make it appear
that from illness of a particular nature,.and which fre-
quently followed the confinement of women, she was in
such a state of mind as not to be responsible for her
acts, and if they should feel that this was made out,
they would have the satisfaction of acquitting her of the
dreadful crime alleged against her.
Miss Georgiana Armstrong said—l was on a visit on
the 24 February in Onsiow•terrace, Newington, at the
residence of the prisoner and her husband. The de-
ceased child was about seven weeks old. I was down•
stairs in the kitchen when my sister called me, and I went
to an upstairs room, where I found her with the priso-
ner. My sister asked what bad become of the child, and in
consequence of what she said, I went to the prisoner's
bedrooM, but could not find the child there. I went
back to the room where the prisoner was and said that
I could cot fine] the child, and she then said in a pan in
the bedroom. I went back to the bedroom and found
'he child in a pan of water, quite dead. I had observed
that the pi issuer was in a most excited and almost fran-
tic state on this day, and she had been in that♦ state al-
most from the time of her delivery. The deceased was
her first child. The prisoner had made two attempts to
destroy herself.
Mr. W. Wood, asurgeon, said—l have attended upon
the prisoner for several months. She bad what medical
men term a fair confinement, and went on very well for
several days, and I ceased my attendance. On the 2d
of January I was sent for again, and found the prisoner
Buff eine from nervous fever. She got gradually better,
and I again ceased .my attendance. I was sent for
shortly after. and found her again suffering from nervous
fever, and her mind was evidently affected, and I di-
rected that she Should not he left alone.
By Nits Ballantine—l have no doubt she committed
the act while in a state of de'irium and insanity.
Mr. 'Justice Erie here interposed, and expressed his
opinion that upon this •evidence and the other facts of
the case it was unnecessary to proceed further with the
ineuiry. -
The jury said they were quite satisfied, and returned
a verd ct of not guilty, on the ground of insanity.
Mr. jastice Erie said, that although the verdict roust
be entered in this form, according to the statute, yet as
it was evidently a case where the insanity was on'y tem-
porary, and arose from bodily ailment, the prisoner
might h, restored to her friends, and he should give all
the assistance in his power, by making a representation
in the proper quarter, that this course should be adopted.
Mr. Ballantine said he could have shown that the de-
votion of the prisoner to her child and her husband was

sotnething marvelloaQ, and the act she had committed
was merely a melancholy instance of the eff: cts of ,:is-
ease. Under these circutnstances, the husband and
friends of the prisoner were exceedingly anxious that she
should be restored to them.

Mr. Justice Erie said he should have an opportunity
of signing an application to the Secretary of State for
her immediate release.
Hannah, Bramwell, 23, was indicted for the wUfu
murder of her female illegitimate child, known by the
name of Hannah.

Mr. W. Coper prosecuted.
The prisoner would have been without any legal as.
sistance but for the humane interference of the sheriffs,
and through their instrumentality Mr. Sleigh was re
tained to defend her.
The circumstances of this case were of a most dig•

tressing nature. The prisoner, it appeared, had
been in respectable service, and was a girl of good
character, when she was seduced, and the result
was the birth of the infant in question. The c qise-
quence was that she lost her situation, and, her seducer
having abandoned her, she was reducel to a most
pitiable state of distress, and at the time of the occur-
rence she and the child were literally starving and
homeless. The child and its mother had for a short
time been in St. Luke's workhouse, but the prisoner
took the child away on the 12th of February, and she
was last seen with it on the 14th, about 6 o'clock in the
evening. On the following morning Parsons, one of the
men belonging to the Royal Humane Society, discovered
the dead body of an infant !looting in the Serpentine,
and on its being taken out it proved to be the child of
the prisoner.

Dr. Christian, a medical gentleman residing at
li-Aglitsbridge, said he saw the deal body of the child,
and he was of opinion that at the time he raw it it had
been dead several hours. It was a very ill-cared for
and emaciated child, and was also buffering from a disease
of the mesenteric glands. Ile made a post mortem exa-
mination, but he was unable to arrive at any conclusion
as to the cause of death. There was nothing in the
stomach but a small quantity of gruel in an un ligested
state.

In answer to a quastion put by the learned Judge,
Dr. Christian stated that nine out of twelve of the
most important indications of death by drowning were
wanting, and he would not at all take upon himself to
say that death in this case was th• result of drowning.
By Mr. Sleigh—From the appearance of the child he
should say that it was very likely it had died from disease
and want of care.

Mr. Justice Erie said that, after this evidence, it ap-
peared to hint thejury would not think themselves justified
in convicting the -prisoner. It appeared, at all events,
quite as likely that the child's death had arisen from the
want and misery it had gone through as from drowning.
The jury expressed themselves of the 13%rue opinion,
and at once returned a verdict of not guilty.
Joseph. Taylor surrendered to ,take. his trial upon a
charge of naisdemeanour.
Mr. Ballantine and Mr. Poland were counsel for the
prosecution ; the defence was conducted by Mr. Parry.
The charge was preferred under the Merchant Sea-
men's Act, and the offence imputed to the defendant
was that, being employed en board a screw steamer
called the Marley Hill, the property of the General Iron
Screw Collier Company, be had wilfully opened part of
the machinery called the "sea cock," and thereby en-
daugered the safety of the vessel. The case for the pro-
secution was that no person but the,defendant could
have interfered with the cock in question, and it was
alleged that he had been heard to make use of some
threats towards the chief engineer. •
Mr. Parry made an able address to the jury on behalf
of the defendant, and contended that the evidence was
far too inconclusive and unsatisfactory to justify them '
in finding him guilty of so serious an offence. He
Temarked upon the improbability of the defendant leav-
ing all he pdeossed Oh bcierd the *dui; ho eoLitoui.