The Sun.
London, England, 1860-07-14 00:00:00

INCHKEITH.

Mr. BLACK asked the Secretary of State for War if,
according to the communication made to the Edinburgh
Chamber of Commerce in July last, it is still the intention
of Government to place a battery on Inchkeith for the
protection of the trade in the Firth of Forth.

Mr. S. HERBERT answered in the affirmative.
WEST AUSTRALIA.

In answer to Lord A. CHURCHILL,
Mr. FORTESCUE said it was not the intention of the
Government to make any change in the system of sending
cut convicts to West Australia.
SWITZERLAND AND FRANCE.—THE
CONGRESS.

an the question that the house at its rising should ad-
journ till Monday,
Mr. KINGLAKE rose to ask the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether all the eight Powers, as well as
Switzerland and Sardinia, have consented to take part in
the proposed conference on the subject of the 92d Article
of the Definitive Act of Vienna, and whether there is any
preliminary understanding between the Powers as to the
basis on which the conference will take place. The hon.
gentleman, who was very imperfectly heard, said—a very
few words will suffice to explain the question. Every one
knows that in the contemplation of the eventuality of war
in which either France or Austria should be engaged it was
provided by the 92d Article of tho Treaty of Vienna that
Switzerland in any such case should remain neutral, and
that the two provinces of which we have heard so mush—
Chablais and Faucigny—should share that neutrality. The
difficulty which has now been occasioned arises thus :
The King of Sardinia has professed to cede the Emperor
of the French the provinces of Chablai3 and Faucigny, in
other words, he has professed to cede to the French Em-
peror the provinces which formed the neutralised boundary
of Switzerland. It happens also that Switzerland was vi-
tally injured by this arrangement, because whereas Switzer-
land had an admirable frontier, as the result of the Treaty
of Turin, she finds herself surrounded on all sides but one
by a great military empire. True, such defence as is given
by a European guarantee still remains, but experience has
shown that protection by diplomatic arrangement is of little
avail unless it be combined with a strong military frontier
and a warlike people. The Treaty of Turin acknowledged
in the fairest way the extent to which the contemplated
arrangement was questionable on the part of the Powers of
Europe, and also by Switzerland; accordingly the two
articles of the treaty provide that France should come to an
understanding with Europe generally and Switzerland.
Now Switzerland, being aggrieved by the arrangement made
between these two Powers, desired to appeal to Europe; and
it did so happen that the arrangement made in 1814 and
1815 at Aix-la-Chapelle constituted a tribunal to which an
appeal in such a case might be addressed—in the event of
either party feeling aggrieved a conference of the Powers
was to take place. It is extremely important to bear this in
mind, because it is this which constitutes the distinction be-
tween a conference in the ordinary sense of the term, and
that peculiar conference to which Switzerland is appealing.
It would be extremely anomalous and inconvenient that an
ordinary conference should take place without the antece-
dent probability that the Powers should agree. But this is
not a conference of voluntary Powers, but constitutes what
I may truly call a court or tribunal, and summoned ley
Switzerland as one of the Powers which states herself ag-
grieved. It scorns to me of importance that this conference
should take place, because it is there, and there only, that
negotiations can be effectually carried on. It is of the
greatest importance that the Swiss Confederation, which
from the beginning has shown high spirit, great sagacity,
and a firm and unflinching reliance on the great Powers of
Europe—it is of great importance that Switzerland, called
to negotiate on a matter of vital importance to her, should
be able to negotiate without seeming to abandon that reli-
ance she has always shown in the Powers of Europe. More-
over, it is admitted by all, and by none more fairly than by
France, that the existing state of things must undergo
some alteration in order to be placed in conformity with
the public law of Europe ; and it would be a scandal to
Europe if it could be supposed that there was no tribunal
competent to decide the question. The most obvious ob •
jection to the conference no doubt is the danger that it
might seem to give something like a recognition to the
transaction appealed against ; but I humbly apprehend that
the basis on which the conference will take place will not
be the Treaty of Turin ; it will be the 92d Article of the de-
finitive treaty, combined with the fact that these provinces
have been ocoupied by the Emperor of the French, and it
will not proceed on the assumption that the treaty signed
on the 24th of March was definitive. (Hear, hear.) Now,
it appears to me that this conference, if it should succeed,
will confer a very great blessing upon Europe; and if it
should fail it will in that event also bring about a state of
things far more desirable than that which now exists, be-
cause it will show, in the most emphatic manner, what will
then be the recognised impossibility of placing the Treaty of
Turin in conformity with the public law of Europe. I beg
now to ask the question.
Sir R. PEEL—I have only one or two words to say to
the noble lord before he answers the question of my hon.
friend. I don't wish to enter on the general subject, be-
cause I hope before the end of session it will be fully gone
into. But, as the question of a conference has now been
d.:*led, I only hope the noble lord and the Powers of
Europe, who have given their assent to it, will see that the
rightof Switzerland, as a party vitally interested in this
4"."'"°,1, are fully recognised. (Hear) Now, France has
denied the rights
of Switzerland in this matter.
Over and
over
what., tog ran ce has asserted that Switzerland has nothing
do with any arrangement that may be made
between Prance on
the one side and Sardinialm the other.
But the Powers of t raic—Russia, Prussia, Austria, and
England—have decided the contrary ; and I must say the
despatch of the noble lopradv(eJr. Russell) of the 24th of April,
which is among the laid on the table yesterday,
is a Trost energetic ices ,it nenotf the whole question—
it is a most admirable and excel]
Thtetspatch. I only hope
the noble lord will act up to it.
rratemis another observa-
tion I wish to make ; it is this _Then®
that
Switzerland has anything to do with thishas
t.zerland,
has endeavoured to negotiate directly wluth"tsi". France
but Switzerland very wisely refused to de au
France apart from the other Powers. IsTow,Yvtr_gceirth
understa4 very great stress on this—she wishes it to be a`u
that the invitation or summons to attend the conference
comes from France, and not Switzerland. This is a most
important fact—such is not the case; the fact is perfectly
the reverse. The invitation to this special conference

comes from Switzerland, not from France, and has been so
recognised by the Powers of Europe. I hope France will
not be allowed to take credit to herself for the • assembling
of this conference. (Hear, hear.) I have only to add that
as France has declined to cede any portion of the neutralised
province of Chablais and Faucigny, because she says that
universal suffrage has given her those provinces, I can state
that the whole operation of that universal suffrage was
most false and fallacious. (Hear, hear.) lam authorised
to say this—that there are about 30,000 adults capable of
exercising the elective franchise in these two provinces ; I
think that 29,000 voted in favour of France; but only a
few weeks before 12,000, the most important and respon-
sible inhabitants of the very same provinces, publicly and
without any pressure declared themselves entirely in favour
of union with Switzerland. (Hear, hear.) Now to tell us
that you won't admit any diminution of that territory, be-
cause universal suffrage has given it to you, is, I say, a
most false and fallacious doctrine, and I hope the Powers
of Europe will not submit to the degradation of accepting
such a position from France. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE—I have only one or two remarks to
make on this occasion. I must say, after reading the
despatch of the noble lord (J. Russell) produced yesterday,
and to which reference has already been made, I hope I have
every confidence in his administration of the foreign affairs
of the country. I think we may leave the foreign affairs of
England with the utmost confidence in the hands of the
noble lord. (" Hear, hear," and " Oh, oh I") That is my
opinion. It may not be the opinion of the hon. member for
Cork, but I would rather be wrong with the noble lord
than right with that hon. gentleman. (A laugh.) There
was a very grave statement made last night—a statement
unusually grave, because my hon. friend who made it never
speaks on light grounds, and his information has generally
been found correct; any statement, therefore, which he
makes is entitled to the fullest consideration of the house.
My hon. friend stated that, at the last.conference of Villa-
franca, the Emperor Napoleon 111. made a proposition to
the Emperor of Austria to the effect that, on condition that
the latter would join the former in an attack on the Rheinish
Provinces, Lombardy should he secured to Austria.

Mr. KINGLAKE—The condition was that Austria
should acquiesce in that attack.
Mr. B. OSBORNE—WeII, acquiesce in it. I say that
any such statement coming from my hon. Mend the member
for Bridgewater is worthy of the most serious attention of
this house—(hear, hear)—because he evidently has means of
obtaining information that are not available te other hon.
members. The question I therefore wish to put to the
noble lord is, whether he is aware that such a propo-
sition was ever made ? (Hear, hear.) I am unable
to judge of how my hon. friend acquired his knowledge,
but he certainly was cognisant of the project for annexing
Savoy to France long before it was known to any mem-
ber of her Majesty's Gevernment—(hear, hear)—and that
is one reason why I put this question. I can only suppose
that my hop. friend must have received his information
from the Emperor of Austria himself—(a laugh)—because I
believe no one else but the two Emperors was present at
the interview. I should imagine that if any person in this '
country could give a satisfactory answer to the house on
this point it would be the noble lord the Foreign Secretary.
I therefore take the liberty of putting this question to him,
at the same time repeating what I said at the outset—viz.,
that I have full confidence in the noble lord's judgment in
conducting our foreign affairs. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—With respect, first, to the questions
put to me by my hon. friend the member for Bridgewater,
I will state the facts as far as they are within my own know-
ledge. My hon. friend seems to suppose that certain Powers
have consented to take part in the proposed conference.
Now, the way in which the matter stands is this. The
house will have seen from the papers which have been pre-
sented that the French Government have proposed
three different modes for reconciling the 92d article of the
Treaty of 'Vienna with the 2d article of the Treaty of
Turin, and that a conference is only one of those modes.
The French Government, therefore, have not summoned
the conference, and asked the other Powers to attend it.
Her Majesty's Government had no difficulty in immediately
saying that they accepted the conference as the best mode
of considering this subject; but it does not appear, as far
as we know, that any definitive answer has been given by
the other Powers of Europe. We have been told—although,
of course, the answer would not come to us, but to the
French Government—that Austria and Prussia have both
shown some hesitation on the matter; and that, although an
unofficial answer went from Russia that she was willing to
accept a conference, yet her answer was not formal or de-
finitive on the subject. Therefore at present no summonses
have gone out from France for the purpose of convening
the conference; and it is not yet certain that the other
Powers have assented to that mode. I believe, however,
they all say that if a conference is summoned they will
send representatives to it. With regard to the second ques-
tion put to me, as to whether any preliminary arrangement
has been come to with the Powers respecting the basis of a
settlement, the French Government have from the begin-
ing stated that the only practical basis is, that the Powers
should endeavour to reconcile the 92d article of the Treaty
of Vienna with the 2d article of the Treaty of Turin, and
they assume that that will be thought a proper basis, be-
cause it allows every latitude to the other Powers to state
their views upon the subject. I imagine no other basis than
that can be proposed. As to the observation which has
been made more than once in this house, that the French
Government proposes to tie down the other Powers before-
hand against any arrangement by which any part of Savoy
may be separated from France, no attempt has been made
to fetter the other Powers on that subject. The French
Government, however, say that if such a proposal should
be rr ade they will state their objections to its adoption.
(Hear.) With respect to the revelation made by my hon.
friend last night as to what transpired between the Empe-
ror of the French and the Emperor of Austria at Villa-
franca, what happened on that occasion can only have taken
place between those two sovereigns. I believe that no other
person was present at that interview. We have had vari-
ous accounts, more or less official, of the general substance
of what passed at that interview ; but we have not received
any intimation that the proposal or suggestion to which my
hon. friend the member of Liskeard alludes was made. I
have, indeed, heard the story in a ♦ague way, but I do not
know that there is any authority whatever for it. (Hear.)