The Sun.
London, England, 1860-02-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL P-A7R-LiAMEN T.

HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAT.)
THE COMMERCIAL TREATY WITH FRANCE.
The Earl of AIRLIE moved for copies of any correspon-
dence (in addition to that presented to Parliament) which
may have taken place between her Majesty's Government
' and her Majesty's Plenipotentiaries in Paris respecting the
negotiation of the treaty of commerce with France. He said
ho had no desire upon the present occasion to raise a discus-
' sion upon the general merits of the commercial treaty be••
tween France and England which had lately been signed
at Paris, nor did he wish to enter into the probable manner
in which that treaty would bear upon our financial and
commercial system. This subject he had no doubt would
be fully debated next-week in the other house of Parliament,
and he fur one had no wish to anticipate that debate. His
object on the present occasion was to endeavour to obtain
from the Government, if possible, some explanation with re-
gard to what appeared to him to be one of the most im-
portant provisions of the treaty, to which, however, no re •
ference was made in the correspondence which had already
been presented to Parliament. The provision to which he
referred was contained in the 11th article of that treaty,
which ran as follows: "The two high contracting Powers
engage not to prohibit the exportation of coal, and to lay no
duty on such export." In the correspondence he found two
references to coal, and only two. The first was is a de-
spatch from Lord Cowley to Lord J. Russell, dated Dee.
23, 1859, in which Lord Cowley said Count Walewski had
called upon him the day before, and stated that he had had
a conversation with Mr. Cobden, which was likely to lead
to important results, and amongst other arrangements he
stated that the French Government might give its consent
to the admission of British coal at the same duty as Belgian
coal. In this despatch (No. 2) from Lord J. Russell to
Lord Cawley and Mr. Cobden, his lordship said, that no„
great interest was excited in this country as to whether
the duty on British coal imported into France was high or
low. The treaty was received at the Foreign-office on
the 31st of January, and Lord John Russell wrote on the
same day acknowledging the I eceipt of it. Now through-
out the whole of this correspondence, neither in the
original proposition of Count Walewski, nor in the proposal
now fully developed by Lord J. Russell, nor in the despatch
of Lord Cowley which accompanied the treaty, nor in the
last letter of Lard J. Russell conveying her Majesty's satis-
faction at the arrival of the treaty, was this engagement
ever hinted at. It would seem as if they had consented to
throw it into tho bargain just as if it were a matter of very
slight importance. He did not suppose any one would con-
tend there was any reciprocity in this matter. It was quite
true that the treaty applied to both countries, but he did
not suppose wo should ever find ourselves importing Goals
from France. He did not wish to lay much stress on the
circumstance that by engaging not to. impose our export
duty on coals we thereby deprived ourselves of raising a
revenue from that source. The questisn appeared to him
to bear another and a more dangerous aspect. He took it
for granted that if there were a coalition of the other mari-
. .

time powers against tkis country the struggle would-be
with steam-vessels. In this country we had left off alto-
gether constructing sailing vessels, and at a great expense
were now constructing steamers. France had been carrying
on the same operation, and at ono period cysts snore rapidly
than ourselves. He believed that all the other maritime
powers had done the same thing. It scented to him that all
other things being equal, in auy future ntaritime war the
advantage would be with that power which was best sup-
plied with coal, and which had the power of cutting off the
supply from the other countries. That was the position in
which it appeared to him this country stood at present, for
not only did we possess coals in muck greater quantities
than any country in Europe, but it so happened that we
possessed that peculiar description of coals which was best
adapted to steam navigation, and which went by the name
of steam coal. From the greater density of this coal,
which was found in South Wales, it could be stowed into
a smaller space than the ordinary kind, and front careful
experiments which had been made it had been ascer-
tained that 100 tons of it would go as far as 144 tons of
other coal. This kind of coal was not found in large quan-
tities in Belgium or in Germany. We had the power ef pre-
venting this coal from being exported, and a power which we
could exercise, if expedient, without offence, inasmuch as it
was a mere matter of domestic legislation. lie would cite
one or two instances, by way of illustration of the danger of
parting with this power. Ile would suppose that whilst this
treaty was in force France should find herself engaged in
war with some country which was in ft iendly relations with
Enttjand, we should find Ft ance drawing from England a
materiel which she used in warfare against a country which
might have all our sympathies. It might be, tco, that the
issue of the war depended to a great extent on naval opera-
tions, and upon the equipment of steamers, and upon their
power of keeping at sea. Again, by this treaty, French
merchants might, while we were at war with another coun-
try, take this coal to neutral ports, from w hich it might be
taken inland to ports that we were blockading. Again, we
had treaties with most European powers containing the moat
favoured nation clause, Which would enable them to obtain
the coal while we were at war with France. All the facilities

which by this treaty were accorded to France were intended
to be accorded to other countries. But supposing there
was a coalition of the great maritime powers of Europe
against this country, as there had been before, up to the
very moment that hostilities began the whole of the powers
would be enabled to supply themselves with this coal,
which might be used in steamers, by which a descent might
be made on our shores; and it might be that the Go-
vernment of the day might be forced to precipitate the war,
by striking the first blow, in order to put an end to this
state of things. He believed that this treaty, so far from
having the effect anticipated from it, would have a directly
contrary effect. If he were not very much mistaken, there
was one thing of which the people of this country were ex-
tremely jealous, and that was anything like tampering with
the source of their naval power. What were the words of
the Prime Minister of England a few weeks ago, in answer to
a deputation that waited upon him ? Why he said that the
very existence of England depended on her preponderance at
sea. I t had been said by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that
the treaty would knit together in the bonds of amity the two
great nations whose conflicts had shaken the world, but he
(the Earl of Airlie) saw in this provision of it a fearful
source of mutual jealousy and discord, and probably of war;
and it was in the interests of peace, because he desired in his
heart that the alliance of the two nations should be one of
friendship between the peoples, as well as the Governments,
that he deprecated this provision, and hoped the Govern-
ment would use its influence with the Government of France
to allow it to be revised. lie was anxious to know at what
time this proposal was at first broached, by whom, and how
it was communicated, when the noble lord the Foreign Se-
cretary received information of it, whether it was laid be-
fore the Cabinet, and what communications upon it took
place with Lord Cowley, who did not seem to have been
consult el about the making of this treaty.
Lord WODEIIOUSE said there was no objection to the
motion, but he did not think the papers asked for would
give his noble friend all the &bailed information he required.
With regard to Lord Cowley, he certainly had taken part in
the treaty as our ambassador at Paris, but it was notorious
enough that the treaty was principally negotiated by Mr.
Cobden. The noble lord had dwelt at great length on the
eleventh article of the treaty, by which we engage not to
prohibit the expoitition of coal to France, and not to lay on
an export duty. But it was now fully admitted to be not at
all desirable to lay an export duty on coal ; it had been at-
tempted, and was then laid aside by general consent. There
was another clause of the treaty, the nineteenth, or "most
favoured nation" clause, by which we engaged that there
should be no prohibition of the export of any article to
France whie'a was not prohibited to be exported to any ether
country. In spite, therefore, of the noble lord's picture of
the terrible effects of allowing our coal to be imported into
France, the export of it could not have been prohibited by
us without at the same time prohibiting its export to every
other foreign country, and such a measure of general pro-
hibition the Government would have been very loth to
adopt. The noble lord had spoken of the dan-
ger and inconvenience to this country of not
being able to prohibit the exportation of coal to
France in case of impending war. But it seemed to him that
if we were (which he trusted for many long years to come we
should not be) in such a position with regard to France, that
it was necessary to prohibit the export of cool lest it should
be employed for hostile purposes against ourselves then such
a measure would he adopted by the Government of the day
on their own responsibility, whether this clause in the com-
mercial treaty existed or not, and then the mere fact of this
clause being set aside under such circumstances would
scarcely add anything to the angry relations between the
two countries. As for reserving the use of our steam coal
entirely for our own navy, we could only do that by pre-
venting its export for any purposes. Bet it was an article
of great importance to the French manufacturers, and one
which they fairly expected to have the use of, when they
were admitting the competition of English manufacturers
in the French market.
The Earl of lIARDWICKE considered ttis was an one-
sided treaty, the great immediate advantages of which were
given to France, though he did not deny that some years
hence England also might obtain advantages from it. He
protested against the specific clause by which we were bound,
without the power of retracting that condition, to give away
our coal, which he regarded as the great power of this
country for aggression or for defence. There was no
equality in setting their claret and silk against our coal. It
should be observed also, that if we happened to be at war
with Russia, and if France were then neutral, France
might do a valuable trade in conveying our coal into Russia,
to be used by her against us.
Earl GRANVILLE said it was perfectly clear and obvi-
ous that no government of this country would, within the
next 10 years, propose an export duty on coal, It was quite
clear that this was a peace treaty, which would be at once
superseded the memedt war was declared. In the Russia
n
war we had prohibited the exportation of coals to all corn
tries north of Danizic, although there countries _ most
favoured nation treaties. If France went to warwi her get-
taus and
required' our coals, it would be our right to preventun munitions of war.
ting them, on the ground that they
Besides, did any noble lord think tliVadtre
rich
France would leave herself at the commencementneoal from
Belgium,without
and
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in r". pointed osutathsaotuthtee Coil_f the noble lords.
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ronce respecting
Prospect' of a
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Motion agreed country.
doulled,,fedi,erinertiiat
Their lordehips then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.--`YESTERDAY.)
TIIE TROOPS OF THE OF NAPLES.
Lord R. 110 N rAc-u- a',iked the Secretary of State for
received any communication from.
Foreign Affairs Whether her Maiestv's Government had
of Sardinia Lave been tr}l:
•'' the Government of the
Two Sic Lies, complaining that agentsto exci
excite
athe
mutiny
iin
tGovernmentthe
troops of the King of Naples.
Lord J. RUSSELL—We have no information of the
kind, nor has the Government of the Two Sicilies made
any such representation. At the same time I should tell
the noble lord that the Government of the Two Sicilies is
very ready to make complaints of plots and conspiracies.
Some time ago we received a complaint respecting several
Eritish officers ; we inquired into it, and found the facts to
be that an officer going to call upon a lady, bought at a
pastry-cook's a cake mhich was said to have a flag upon it
having three colours, and the Government of the Two
Sicilics complained of this as an attempt to excite insurrec-
tion. (Great laughter.)
EXCESSSIVE PUNISHMENT
Mr. FREELAND asked the Secretary of State for the
Houle Department, whether the attention of her Majesty's
Government has been called to the case of an agricultural
labourer in Hertfordshire, who, having been previously
convicted for stealing rabbits, was said to have been sen-
tenced by the magistrates of that county to three years'