The Sun.
London, England, 1860-05-08 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 8, 1860.

end where it now stands—(hear, hear)—and that it will
not lead to any result greater than the cause from which it
appears to have originated. I should not have presented
myself to the house were it not for the mention which my
right hon. friend has made of my name in connexion with
Mr. Delano. In the first place my right hon. friend has
recorded that for a certain period of time, now I am happy
to say long gone by, I sustained very bitter attacks in the
columns of the Times. It is perfectly true that during a
portion of my public life I was, in regard to the newspaper
press, one of the best abused men in England. I submitted
with patience to those attacks—(hear, and laughter)—l
trusted that my public conduct would be an answer, sooner
or later, to those attacks. (Hear.) It never occurred to
me to rise in my place in this house to complain of the at-
tacks which were so bitterly mad) upon me. (Hear, hear.)
Whether my example in that respect is one that should be
followed, or whether those who have taken a different course
acted more properly than I did, I cannot say. My right
hon. friend had stated, in his letter, that he did not know
what the influences were which Mr. Delano, one of the edi-
tors or managers of the Times, attributed to me. If by that
he implies that any wish or influence of mine has been exer-
cised over the line of conduct of the proprietors of the Times,
I can only say with Mrs. Malaprop that I should be glad to
plead to that soft impeachment—(laughter)—if such insin-
uations were really founded on fact. If there are any in-
fluences which have led Mr. Delane to me they are the in-
fluences of society. (Hear, hear.) My right hon. friend
has himself stated in his glowing address that the contri-
butors to the press are the favourites and ornaments of every
society into which they enter. He is perfectly right in that
expression. They are generally men, as he states, of great
information and great attainments, and therefore they are
men whose society must be agreeable to these with whom
they associate. (Hear.) My connexion with Mr. Delane
is of that character exactly. I have had the pleasure of
meeting with Mr. Delano frequently in society, and he has
done me the honour of meeting society occasionally under
my roof. (Hear, hear.) That society is composed of per-
sons of. all politics—(hear, hear)—and engaged in all pur-
suits. I feel very proud when persons come without under-
taking any other engagement than that which Mr. Delane
does so well—of always making themselves very agreeable.
(Laughter.) I have had the honour, and I esteem it such,
of receiving occasionally the right hon. gentleman the mem-
ber for Buckinghamshire, and also the right hon. gentleman
the member for Cambridge. The influences which led them
to do me that honour wer e of the same kind as those which
prompted Mr. Delane. They expected to meet agreeable
society, and I trust they were not disappointed. (Much
laughter) I have also myself had the honour of meeting
society under the roof of Lord Derby, and in so doing I did
no more than the right hon. gentleman the member for
Bucks and the right hon gentleman the member for Cam-
bridge—that is to say, mixed on fair• and equal terms with
agreeable society, and making themselves agreeable to those
whom they met. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI said—Before the discussion closes I
think I ought to endeavour to extract some useful result
from it, and therefore I will request the house to recollect
one observation that has been made by the hon. member
for Berkshire, namely, the disapprobation he expressed of
quoting, in order to influence opinion in our discussions,
views which have been advanced in the morning news-
papers, and which are often written without sufficient data.
It appears to me that to quote the anonymous opinions of
contemporaries in an assembly like that where they ought
to depend on their own knowledge and their own powers of
argument enforced and illustrated by the opinions of other
gentlemen of equal authority—it appears to me that that
constant practice which has lately become the fashion of
enforcing one's views by quotations from anonymous con-
temporaries, is one which ought not to be encouraged.
(Hear, hear.) I think it tends very much to lower the tone
and authority of our debates; and, therefore, if from this
conversation the attention'ef thehouse is drawn in so marked
a manner to this novel feature of our debates, we shall in
future be able to avoid that eriticism of the hon. member for
Berkshire which I consider to be so accurate and just and it
will not be without benefit. Both the gentlemenwho are into •
rested in this matter possess, and are well entitled to, the re-
spect of the house from their position and talents. (Hear.) I
cannot agree with the right hon. gentleman in, as I think,
his somewhat sweeping and exaggerated view of the press
of this country. He says in a very serious part of his
speech that the press was the fourth estate of the realm. I
must remind the hon. gentleman that when he is speaking
of the Sovereign and the two Houses of Parliament, to
speak of the press of this country as the fourth estate of the
realm is but the introduction into our debates of a slang ex-
pression which is not true. (Hear.) The press is not the
fourth estate of the realm, nor can it exercise any political
responsibility. There is a responsibility which attaches to
the newspaper press, and that is that it is amenable fortu-
nately to the laws of the country. (Hear, hear.) But it is
responsible to the public, and I cannot believe that news-
papers which are conducted with a total absence of principle
employing themselves in the manner in which the right
hon. gentleman says this particular newspaper ,has em-
ployed itself, would possess that degree of confidence and
patronage on the part of the public which it does. (Hear.)
Newspapers must depend on public opinion, and there is
no doubt the Times newspaper has great weight in its criti-
cisms of public men. But we must remember this, that if
you have a free press, and if it be what I agree it is, a
great blessing, you must not be too critical about what it
says. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord has very playfully
reminded the house that he has been subject in the course
of his political life to considerable criticism. Well, it does
not appear to have done the noble lord much harm physi-
cally—(laughter)—and as to the moral effect of such criti-
cism, there are few public men who may not have profited
by it. (Hoar, hear.) I, too, have had my share of news-
paper criticism, and it is as large a share as any public man
ever had. I cannot pretend to say that when it first began,
which is now a long time ago, it was not as disagreeable to
me as it could be to anybody—(laughter)—but I can truly
say that as long as that public criticism is able and intelli-
gent, I do not care what degree of general malignity may
pervade it. (Hear.) Now I agree with the noble lord in his
view that on the whole it is very unnecessary to ask this
house to bo the confidant of complaints when we are sub-
jected to any severe criticisms. If the press of this country
is to be a free press, it is not for us to criticise with too great
promptitude or severity intellectual efforts, which it must be
recollected are written under conditions of immense diffi-
cult. And we must also recollect that these enterprises are
responsible to the general opinion of the country, and
that opinion cannot be enlisted in their favour, un-
less on the whole we find that, whether it be through their
information, or their criticisms, er their general intelligence,
they are found to be of great advantage to the community.
(Hear, hear.)
The motion for the adjournment of the house was then
withdrawn, and the subject dropped.

REFRESHMENT HOUSES AND WINE LICENSES

BILL.

On the order of the day for resuming the adjourned de-
bate on the second reading of this bill,
Mr. AYRT ON rose to move the following amendment:—
"That it is inexpedient to impose a new tax on houses for
the sale of unintoxicating refreshments and to promote the
consumption of intoxicating drink by giving increased faci-
lities for retailing the same, and by diminishing the control
now exercised by justices of the peace over houses kept for
that purpose." He contended that the expectations of the
Chancellor of the 'Exchequer that intoxication would bo
diminished by the increased consumption of wine were
illusory. The theory that in wine countries there was an
absence of drunkenness depended upon certain conditions,
especially the poverty of the people ; the question was what
the result would be in this country when the opportunities
to buy wine were increased, and high wages afforded the
means of buying enough to procure intoxication. He urged
the evil consequences of taking a wrong step in a matter so
intimately connected with the moral and physical condition
of the lower classes, and that the best course was to reject
tho bill.

Mr. LIDDELL likewise opposed the bill. After obser-
ving that it created a new temptation for the indulgence of
intoxication, and that in large towns the Youth of both
sexes would be encouraged to congregate together in wine-
houses, he argued against the case for the bill, which rested,
he said, upon an assumption which was not true, that there
was a public necessity for opening new channels for the sale
of cheap wines. He objected that the bill virtually dimi-
nished the control of the magistrates, that it did not give
them power at the right time, and gave them power at the
wrong time.
Mr. SALOMONS supported the second reading. There
were three classes of persons who combined in their opposi-
tion to the bill. First, the licensed victuallers, who thought
their interests would be affected by it; and if he really,
thought they would be injured by the bill he should never
be found a supporter of its principle. The second body of
persons were the teetotallers, who were averse to any legis-
lation whatever from which the extension of the sale of in-
toxicating liquors might be in any way encouraged. The
third parties were the beersellers ; but with regard to them
there could be no doubt the beerhouses established through-
out the country districts were a great nuisance is all the
surrounding neighbourhood. (Hear.) The question, how-
ever, he would put to the house was this—was the law in a
satisfactory state when_it did not enable a respectable man
with a lady to get a glass of wine without going to the bar
of a public-house or gin-shop ? This seemed to him to be
a piece of barbarism not at all desirable. Then, he might
ask, was the spirit trade in a proper condition ? Look at the
state of the Haymarket and the streets adjacent at a late
hour of the night. Was that a state satisfactory to the pub-
lic, whether they viewed this as a religious country or even
as a country where licenses were necessary ? By the bill
a great public want might be supplied without interfering
with any existing interests. Having had some experience
as a magistrate, he cottld say that they need not be scared
away by the various phantoms which had been conjured up
as to the effect of increasing the number of licensed houses
for the sale of intoxicating drinks. The City of London,
in proportion to its size, had a larger number of public-
house than any other part of the kingdom. While Man-
chester, with a population of 317,000 persons, bad only 485
public-houses, the City of London, with a population of
only 130,000, had as many as 645 public-houses and 187
beershops, or a total of 832 houses. In the City of London
almost every pastrycook who desired a license from the ma-
gistrates could get one ; the only condition imposed being an
honourable understanding that he vsould not open on Sundays, 1
nor after 8 o'clock at night on other days, nor convert hi. , I