The Sun.
London, England, 1860-05-12 00:00:00

that they are not in so verydefective a condition as some per-
sons appear to believe. I nowwish to say afew words with re-
spect to the question of inspection. Undoubtedly it is advis-
able there should be a verycareful inspection by Admiralty
officers of all vessels that are being built by contract, and
as a general rule the Admiralty always appoint a superior
officer, who acts as an inspector in every yard where those
vessels are being constructed. One officer, however, acts as
inspector in :a yard whatever may be the n in bar of vessels
being built in it, and hence it is that it becomes desirable
we should have as many vessels as possible constructed in
one yard. We have at this moment 24 vessels being built
by contract, and we have 17 inspectors attached to the yards
in which the works are carried on; but as there are two or
more vessels being constructed in some of the yards, there
is none of them without a Government inspector. This
question, of inspection, however, is one involved in some dif-
ficulty. Private ship-builders are only invited at some pe-
riod of public emergency to contract for the supply of vessels
for the royal navy, and at such a time we are at full work in
the royal dockyards, where men are employed during extra
hours and on task jobs; and it then becomes a matter of
great importance that in the dockyards themselves the most
vigilant superintendence should be exercised. The conse-
quence is that it is more than usually difficult to find in-
spectors for overlooking the work done in private establish-
ments. We are at this moment, however, most careful that
an efficient system of supervision should take place with re-
gard to all vessels being built by contract, and we have a
variety of checks against abuses in that matter. We have
not only an inspector in each yard, but we send down offi-
cers periodically to examine and report how the work is
being performed ; and the vessels afterwards undergo a sur-
vey at the period when they are delivered up to the Admi-
ralty. We thus take every possible precaution against bad
workmanship and bad material; and while I am upon that
subject I will appeal to myhon. and gallant friend the mem-
ber for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) whether he does not think
the Admiralty have shown great anxiety to arrive at the
truth in those cases in which they had every reason to sits-
pect that fraud had been practised by contractors. The
only other question I have to answer is that which has been
put to me by the hon. baronet the member for the city of
Dublin with regard to the position of surgeons in the navy.
I have to inform the hon. baronet that the surgeons are
now about to receive a new uniform. The reasons for the
delay which has taken place in that matter are that we have
felt it necessary that all the non-executive officers in a ship
should have a uniform distinct from that of the executive
officers, and that we did not wish to decide what should be
the uniform of the first of these classes until the House of
Commons should agree to grant the sums necessary for im-
proving their general condition. With regard to cabins, I
cannot hold out the least hope that the Admiralty will give
the surgeons the same kind of cabins that are given to cap-
tains of ships. We are anxious that proper cabins should
be provided for surgeons, but we cannot place them in the
same position in that case as captains. My right hon. friend
opposite has stated that, according to theinformation which
he received, a cabin was refused to an assistant-surgeon en
board the Queen, while that accommodation was afforded to
the head master and other inferior officers. Capt, Hillyard,
however, who commanded that vessel, has informed me that
he gave every cabin he could for the use of the assistant-
surgeons, and that at last one of them wished to turn him out
of his own steward's berth, as it is called. (A laugh.) Here-
fused to accede to that demand, and that is the only founda-
tion for the story to which my right hon. friend has alluded.
Sir J. PAKINGTON—Are we to understand that it is
the intention of the Admiralty to prosecute contractors in
all cases in which there are reasonable grounds for suspect-
ing them of fraud ? (Hear, hear.)
Lord C. PAGET—We are taking legal opinions for the
purpose of ascertaining how far we have the power of insti-
tuting such proceedings.
Sir C. NAPIER said it appeared that the contractors in
that case had fairly told the Government that they could
not provide seasoned timber ; and although the Government
had received that information, he thought they were per-
fectly right in the emergency which had by that time
arisen to order that the gunboats should be constructed.
But he should like to learn from the noble lord who were
the contractors who had employed short bolts, and who
had thus shown themselves ready to expose the lives of
every man onboard their ships to the most imminent peril.
(Hear, hear.) He wished to know who it was that had re-
sorted to that fraud in building the Caroline gunboat. The
name of such a man ought to be made known to the house,
and he was sure they would all feel that no punishment
could be half severe enough for him. (Hear, hear.) Con-
tractors who did their work in such a manner as to risk the
lives of officers and men ought to be severely punished.
(Hear, hear.) Ile wanted the noble lord the Secretary of
the Admiralty to tell them the names of such contractors,
that the house might express an opinion with regard to
their conduct. (Hear.)
Lord C. PAGET observed that there were inspectors.
Sir C. NAPIER would like to know, then, who the in•,
specters were, and who appointed them. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord had told them that 23 of the gunboats had
been repaired. He did not say what was the extent of the
repairs. He said he hoped the 16 gunboats on the Hasler
slip were not so bad. Hoping was not sufficient in such a
case. (Hear, hear.) Why had not the Admiralty sent
some one to examine those gunboats one by one ? 'Why
had not the noble lord, who it had been understood was to
do wonders at the Admiralty, ascertained. the actual state
of the boats at the Haslar slip? (Hear, hear.) He said
he hoped the case was not so bad as had been supposed.
Why, good God ! he surely blight to know the real state of
the case. In his opinion, it would do a great deal of good
to appoint one of the' Lords of the Admiralty to see that the
rest did their duty. (Laughter.) There ought at all
events to be a complete system of inspection. The gun-
boats built by contractors were, it appeared, not the only
ones that were defective. The Government had built a
certain number under their own officers in their own yards.
Had those boats been satisfactorily constructed or not ?
He believed that they had not. The nation ought not to
be trifled with any longer. The contractors, whoever they
might be, and the persons under whose directions the infe-
rior gunboats built in the Government yards were con-
structed, ought to be brought to book. (Hear, hear.) Any
inquiry would, he knew, be attended with great difficulties,
but there certainly ought to be an inquiry, and it should be
made as searching as possible. (Hear, hear.) He hoped
that the hon. and gallant member for Chatham (Sir F.
Smith) would adhere to his purpose of moving for a com-
mittee, and that the members of that committee would not
be content with the statement of witnesses, but go down
and examine personally every one of the defective gun-
boats. Millions of money were being spent annually on the
navy, and it was really disgraceful that the money should
have been so misapplied. He was told that the stern of the
Princess Royal—a vessel which his noble and gallant friend
(Lord C. Paget) had himself commanded—on being recently
taken to pieces, was found to have been originally con-
structed of very unsound timber. He had heard that in
every case in which a sailing line-of-battle ship was now
being converted into a steam line-of-battle ship, the timber
used in the process of conversion was unseasoned. The Ad-
miralty might tell them that they had no seasoned timber.
Wby had they not ? (Hear.) His hon. friend the member
for West Norfolk (Mr. Bentinck) pointed out to the hous e
the other day that there was never a sufficient quantity of
well-seasoned timber kept in the dockyards. Why was that?
Surely it could not be said that Parliament did not vote
enough money. He was far from finding fault with the Ad-
miralty for converting sailing into steam line-of-battle ships
—on the contrary, he considered it absolutely necessary to
do so. He entirely concurred in the remark made by the
right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire a
short time ago, that the position of foreign affairs at the
present time was enough to make the boldest man quake
and the wisest man tremble ; and though he (Sir C. Na-
pier) did not pretend to be one of the wisest men in the
country, he would take every opportunity of warning the
Government not to neglect the navy. (Cheers.)
Admiral DUNCOMBE had understood the noble lord to
say that some of the boats on the Haslar slip were more or
less rotten.
Lord C. PAGET said, what he had stated was that some
of them required small repairs.
Admiral DUNCOMBE could only say that, two years
ago, in examining these vessels• at Haslar for himself, he
poked the end of his umbrella through the bottoms of some
of them. (Laughter.) After that he could not very well
understandhow they could require only small repairs. The
noble lord was probably aware that a great many naval
officers and naval authorities were entirely opposed to the
system of haulingup vessels on dry slips, and thus exposing
them to atmospheric influence. The best thing in the
world for ships was, he believed, to keep them afloat, and
he should be glad to see a comparison instituted between
those which were kept afloat and those which were laid tip
in reserve. No doubt the great source of decay in vessels
was their having been built originally of unsound timber ;
and to remedy this evil the royal arsenals should, he
thought, keep a good supply of timber, and furnish the
builders with it as it was required. He had that day seen
a statement that two of the mortar-boats at Chatham were
so rotten that it was very doubtful indeed whether they
ought to be repaired or not, and he would suggest to the
Government that, if that turned out to be true, the Admi-
ralty, instead of remaining liable to the expense of con-
stantly repairing them, should have them broken up'at once.
14r. BENTINCK said the question raised by his hon.
and gallant friend (Sir C. Napier), whether or not line-of.
battle ships were being converted with unseasoned timber

it might be shown that an English occupation would con-
fer a great benefit on the island, yet in five or six years our
rule would be intolerable there; and it was desirable that
foreign nations should be disabused of the notion that we
have any design upon it. Another reason why Govern-
ment should disavow all connivance with an illegal attempt
to assist the Sicilians was, that the true and wise course
for this country, as the upholder of the constitutional in-
terest of Europe, was to strive that the principle of na-
tional boundaries should be respected, and that every na-
tion should settle its quarrels with its rulers in its own ter-
ritories. If we could only once prevent despotic powers
interfering to put down the people, and make it a rule
that neither a despot should interfere to support despo-
tism, nor a liberal Government to support a liberal Go-
vernment, we might be sure that before long the liberal
party would be able completely to crush their oppressors.
If he had made it perfectly clear that his object in putting
the motion was a friendly one—and he wished the revolt
'every successY and that it would extend to the main land,
and be successful there to the destruction of the present Go-
vernment ofNaples—and if he had made it perfectly clear
that the English Government should do nothing to support
the insurrection, he had said enough, and he would con-
clude by putting the question.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he hoped he should
not be considered wanting in respect to the house if he con-
fined himself to a precise answer to the question, and de •
clined to follow the hon. member into the observations in
which he had thought proper to indulge. His attention
had been called to the advertisement by the question itself
which the hon. member had put. He had read the adver-
tisement. It solicited subset iptions in aid of the Sicilians,
and requested that the money, which persons in this coun-
try might be disposed to subscribe, should be paid into the
hands of certain persons living iu this country whose names
were given, and the proposal was that this money should be
transmitted to Genoa, and be there disposed of by a com-
mittee stated to be presided over by General Garibaldi.
Therefore, the question was whether the subscription of
money by ono of her Majesty's subjects in this country, by
paying it into the hands of another person who was a
foreigner living here, for the purposes and with the object
that he had described, came within any rule of common
law cr within any statute law of this country. Now, it
appeared to him that so long as that which was done was
limited within the boundary of a mere subscription in this
country as the advertisement limited it, no law of this
country would be violated. The only statute which in any
way bore on the matter was the Foreign Enlistment Act.
That act Prohibited two things, it prohibited the enlistment
of soldiers, and it prohibited the fitting out of vessels of war
for service under or against foreign governments. As far
f a he was able to form an opinion, no one who thought pro-
per to put his hand in his pocket and take out money to pay
it to a person to send' it to Genoa, to be there disposed of by
General Garibaldi—he did not suppose that any person in
the exercise of such benevolence, would violate either the
common law or the statute law of this country. (Hear.)
INDIA—RECALL OF SIR CHARLES TREVELYAN
Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR said ho rose to ask the Secre-
tary of State for India whether it was true that he had
taken the decisive and important step of recalling Sir C.
Trevelyan from the governorship of Madras ? He might be
permitted to address to the house a few observations, show-
ing the importance of this step, as he was perfectly ac-
quainted with the Madras government as it was six or seven
years ago, and he had stated to the-house in stances of miss
government, of a most chaotic state of the country, and of
most oppressive taxation amounting to 50 per cent. of the
gross produce of the soil. He had now to show on the other
hand that in that presidency, after a short reign of one
year, by the personal influence of the governor, the popula-
tion was reconciled to the government it before hated,
an equitable assessment had been carried out, and
contrary to the traditions of the old East India Company,
land for the first time in India bad been sold in fee simple
to any person who chose to buy it. It was with astonish-
ment that he heard that the man who had done all this had
been recalled. Mr. Wilson had proposed a budget in the
Legislative Council of India. He proposed it openly, stating
the financial difficulties under which the Government of
India laboured, and his plan for meeting them. He found
that there was an extremely large deficit, amounting to nine
millions for this year and to six millions for the next, and he
stated that he found it necessary to impose three new taxes;
one of these was the tobacco tax, which had already caused
three rebellions ; and the other two were a license tax and an
income tax, The license tax, or maturpha tax, which was
levied in the Madras presidency, was condemned by the
Court of Directors in 1816, and was ordered to be n more
levied; but now, in 1860, it was still levied in that presi-
dency. He did not quarrel with Mr. Wilson for proposing
these taxes if they were absolutely necessary. When they
were proposed Sir C. Trevelyan was on a tour of inspec-
tion in his presidency. He immediately stopped the tour,
and returned to Madras, and he penned that able minute,
the publication of which was the cause of his recall. He
thought when hon. members saw this minute they
would say Sir Charles Trevelyan displayed a know-
ledge of the subject and of the country entitling him
to be heard before the Legislative Council before they put
in execution any of these new schemes of taxation.
He regretted very much to find that when they had a man
of energy and determination as Governor of Madras, a man
who had broken through all the injurious restrictions by
which his predecessors were bound, and raised the people
in the scale of comfort and happiness, the home government
had thought proper to recal him, because he protested
against a scheme which he believed to be impolitic.
Sir C. WOOD said ho was not prepared by the notice of
a simple question as to whether he had recalled Sir C. Tre-
velyan for a speech on subjects of such great importance,
and therefore he should not attempt to follow the bon. gen-
' tleman in his remarks. The recal of Sir C. Trevelyan was
caused in no degree by the opinion which he expressed
with regard to the Government scheme of taxation, but
simply by the act of publishing, he must say most impro-
perly and most insubordinately, a most important minute.
No one could have a greater regard than he had for that
gentleman both on public and private grounds, but he
thought that the house would agree with him that the cir-
cumstances of the case were such as fully to justify him in
the course he adopted. The house would remember that
the Indian financial statement of last year showed a deficit
of about £13,000,000, and that for the present year a deficit
of £9,503,000. With a view of meeting this deficiency the
Government last year proposed a license tax, which was
very soon modified into a quasi income tax, to which was
added a tax on tobacco. They invited the opinions of all
the governors of India, including, of course, the Governor
of Madras, with regard to those taxes. In the course of
the autumn the Governor of Madras expressed his opinion
broadly and distinctly against the imposition of those taxes,
and said that in his judgment no additional taxation was
necessary, because the expenditure might be reduced within
the limits of the income. His hon. friend wanted to know
why the Government did not do what Sir C. Trevelyan said.
There was a wonderful difference between saying, and doing.
Before the financial measures of the Government were pre-
pared, it appeared that the military expenditure of Madras,
which had been estimated in the preceding year at less than
£3,000,000, reached, according to a report of the accountant
of the Madras government, a sum considerably exceeding
£4,000,000. Instead of the expenditure having been reduced
it was exceeded by £1,500,000, and those who were respon-
sible for the finances of the country must be guided by facts
rather than by statements. With a full knowledge of all
the circumstances, in January last the Government deter-
' mined upon the plan which had been announced to this
country, which was introduced on the 18th February, in a
very full and able statement by Mr. Wilson in the Council
at Calcutta. His hon. friend was mistaken in supposing the
financial scheme propounded by Mr. Wilson was arranged
in this country before Mr. Wilson went out to India; all
that had been determined upon at that time was the intro-
duction of a paper currency. Mr. Wilson did not propose
his financial scheme in India till he ,had travelled through
the interior of the country as far as the Punjaub, and had
communicated with all the chief authorities, and it was
brought forward with the entire concurrence of the Gover-
nor-General and everrmember of Council after the fullest
consideration. The scheme was introduced on February
18th, and transmitted to Madras. On March 4th an open
telegram left Madras for Calcutta with the governor's opi-
nion. On the 9th March a confidential letter was sent to
Madras, stating the views and reasons of the governors and
the objections they felt to communicating by open telegram,
on the ground that it was list right that communications be-
' tween one governor and another should be open to the
public. On the 17th of March a letter from the Madras go-
vernment was addressed to tho central government at Cal-
cutta, stating that they saw no objection to communications
passing by open telegram. More than that, on the 21st of
March a telegram was sent to Madras stating that the bi I
would be introduced on the 24th of the same month, that it
would then be referred to a committee, and that it could
not be reported upon for five weeks. He mentioned
these dates to show that at the time Sir C. Trevelyan's mi-
nute was made and published the government of Madras
were in possession of the opinions of the government of
India that it was not to the advantage of the public service
that the opinions of the subordinate governments should be
given to the world, and also that there was ample time for
remonstrance. On the 26th March the opinions of Sir C.
Trevelyan and his council were recorded in the minutes,
and his hen friend had read a part of Sir C. Trevelyan's
minute. (" No," from' Mr. D. SEYMOUR.) Well, he had
read a part of the minute of the members of the council,
and he (Sir C. Wobd) quite admitted that the minute of
Sir C. Trevelyan was a most able and excellent document.
(Cheers.) It was unquestionably a most forcible argument
against the views contained is Mr Wilson's scheme, and
had it been addressed from one side of the house to the
other, he did not know that a better answer to that scheme
could have been made. (Hear.) But it was quite another
question whether that was a document which ought to be
published to the world. Tho document was sent to the
Madras member of the Legislative Council at Calcutta,
and if it had been given in the form of a speech from him
in the council it would have been a remarkably good ono;
but it was accompanied with a request that it should be
then printed—that was, if the majority thought it right.
But he did not hold that the Madras member of the
Legislative Council was the mere delegate of the
Madras government ; he was bound to exercise his
judgment on all matters that came before him. This
being the etate of the case, without t/41) kilowl9dge, with-

HARBOURS OF REFUGE.
Mr. LINDSAY. asked the President of the Board of
Trade when her Majesty's Government intended to intro-
dues measures to carry into effect the recommendations of
the Harbours of Refuge Commission. The hon. member
having adverted to the great loss of life and property
which
had taken place during the past year, said that a com-
mittee had been appointed to inquire into the best means for
the prevention of such losses in future. That committee were
unanimously of opinion that the best means to be adopted
was the establishment of harbours of refuge on the coasts
of Scotland, England, and Wales. (Hear, hear.) That
committee recommended the appointment of a royal
commission to ascertain the most eligible site
for these harbours. He was a member of:that commission,
and they had endeavoured to carry out their duties. They
recommended that £2,360,000 should be expended on the
construction of these harbours of refuge. He thought it
was a waste of time to appoint commissions if they did
not act on their suggestions, and he considered that
if the money required could not be advanced, there
should be loans towards carrying out the construction of
harbours of refuge.
MORTAR VESSELS AND BOATS.
Mr. W. EWART asked- the Secretary to the Admiralty
what were the measures adopted for subjecting to a strict
system of inspection, while they are being built, gunboats
and other vessels, built on contract for the Government ?
Sir J. PAKINGTON rose for the purpose of asking the
Secretary to the Admiralty what was the real extent of the
injury by decay which had been discovered in her Majesty's
mortar vessels and gunboats : whether it was true that im-
proper workmanship and fastenings had also been discovered;
and what steps the Board of Admiralty had taken or in-
tended to take in consequence of the present state of those
vessels. The right hon. baronet said that before he put
these questions he should express a hope that the right hon.
gentleman the President of the Board of Trade would give
a satisfactory answer to the appeal which had been addressed
to him by the hon. member for Sunderland on the subject
of the construction of harbours of refuge. He coincided in
every word that had fallen from his friend with respect to
the immense importance for the protection of life and pro-
perty, of establishing better harbours of refuge than those we
at present possessed along our coast; and he trusted that no
considerations of economy would deter her Majesty's Go-
vernment from carrying out the recommendations of the
commissioners in that matter. He should also say that he
hoped his noble friend the Secretary to the Admiralty would
be able to offer to the house a satisfactory explanation with
reference to the position of medical officers in the navy. He
had upon a former occasion mentioned that a statement had
reached him, to the effect that an assistant-surgeon had
been unable to obtain a cabin on board the Queen, although
cabins had been found in that vessel for the head-master
and other inferior officers. His noble friend had told him
that there was no truth in that statement ; but he (Sir J.
Pakington) had still some reason to doubt whether his
noble friend himself might not have been misinformed upon
that subject. Ho would next proceed to put to his noble
friend the questions of which he had given notice with re-
spect to our gunboats and mortar vessels. For several weeks
past the publii journals have been daily full of statements
with regard to the decay of those vessels ; and not only that
but complaints had been repeatedly made with respect to
the conduct of the contractors who had undertaken the
building of that portion of our naval force. He hoped his
noble friend would c Raider that the best course for him to
take in that matter would be to tell the truth. (Hear,
hear, and a laugh.) He did not, of course, mean to imply
any doubt of the veracity of- his noble friend, but he
trusted that his noble friend would candidly lay before
the house the whole of the facts with regard to the state
of those vessels, and that he would, at the same time, in-
form them whether there was any fair ground , for casting
any serious imputation on the contractors. (Hear, hear.)
His (Sir J. Pakingtou's) attention had been called to the
state of those gunboats in the year 1851, and he had felt it*
hie duty to subject to an inspection the boats hauled up on
the slips at Haslar. It was then found that a certain
amount of the elm planking had decayed, but the decay did
not appear to have extended any further. The Admiralty
had given orders to have that defect removed, and they had
every reason to suppose that those vessels had been placed in
a sound condition. But they were now told that instead of
having merely a few decayed elm planks, the whole frame-
work of those vessels was rotten, and within the last fewdays
it had been stated in the newspapers that four of her Ma-
jesty's mortar vessels had been recently examined and found
so thoroughly rotten that the Admiralty had no choice but
to break them up. That was not, however, the worst part
of the case. They were informed through the same chan-
nels that the workinOnship of those vessels was very de-
fective ; and he was sorry to have to add that there were
charges of what must be called dishonest work—charges to
the effect that the bolting of the vessels had been such that
they could not go to sea with safety. These were most serious
statements, and the time had come when they ought to
know what were the real facts of the case. He had not,
as far as he was at present informed, the slightest inten-
tion of imputing any blame to the Board of Admiralty
of the period when the vessels had been built ;
nor, indeed, had he any information on which he
could cast any serious imputation on these contractors.
Great allowance must be made for the haste with which
those vessels had necessarily been constructed. The can-
tracts had been taken up by houses of undoubted repute •
tion, and there appeared to have been no suspicion at the
time that they had not bebn faithfully carried out. But the
statement which had recently been made deeply affected the
public mind, and had an important bearing upon the ques-
tion how far they could resort to the contract system in the
building of ships for the royal navy without endangering
the public interest. Under these circumstances it was only
fair to the contractors in that case that the whole truth
should be made known. He hoped, therefore, that his noble
friend would tell them fairly and fully what was the real
condition of those vessels"; whether it was true that they
showed signs of improper workmanship, and what steps the
Admiralty had already taken or were prepared to take in
consequence of any discoveries they might have made.
Mr. B. OSBORNE said he hoped the noble lord would
also inform the house whether any officer connected with
her Majesty's dockyards had superintended the construction
of those vessels, and had given any opinion with respect to
their efficiency.
.Lord C. PAGET said—l will follow the advice of my
right hon. friend opposite, and I will state the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth—(a laugh)—with
regard to these gunboats, as far as it is knoivn to us at the
Admiralty. (Hear, hear.) The first duty I have to discharge
upon this occasion is to allay the anxiety which has been
caused by the apprehension that the whole of the gunboats
now in the royal navy are rotten and unfit for service. Up
to the present time we have discovered that a certain number
have been more or less decayed, and measures either have
been taken or are being taken for their repair. I will state
the number of those which have been repaired, but I amnet
at present able to give the house a correct estimate of the ex-
tent of the repairs, because the accounts have not yet been
sent in. The noble lord the member for Cockermouth (Lord
Naas) has, however, moved for a return which will show
the expense of building each of these contract gunboats, and
the expense of repairing them, which will give a fair idea
of the decay that has taken place in them. It must be re-
membered that when shipbuilders were wanted to enter into
contracts for the construction of these gunboats and mortar
vessels, the country was very anxious that they should be
ready for the campaign which was to open in the ensuing
spring; and it is only fair to the contractors that I should
state that they themselves cordially and distinctly informed
the Admiralty that they had no seasoned timber on hand,
and that no seasoned timber could then be procured. I have
myself seen a letter addressed to one of them, in which the
Admiralty, after they had learnt from him that he had ne
seasoned timber, desired him to go on building with that
which he had, so that, as regards the timber, I am bound to
observe that, under the peculiar circumstances of the case,
there is a good deal to be said on behalf of the contractors.
(Hear.) But when we come to the question of shortness of
bolts, I mast say that that is a fraud of a horrible nature,
inasmuch as it is manifest that a vessel in such a condition
going to sea and meeting with bad weather might go to the
bottom with all her crew. (Hear.) The house will easily
understand, therefore, that the Admiralty make a great dis-
tinction between the two points—(hear)—and I have to
state that we are now taking legal advice for the purpose
of ascertaining whether it would be desirable that we should
take further proceedings in respect to this case of defective
bolting. I will now proceed to inform the house what is the
number of boats that have been rewired, and what is their
present state. Besides a great number of those boats which
are now on foreign service, there are in the yards 23 that were
cci
found in a Partial state of decay, and that have since been
mPletelY rePaired ; and we have now six boats in hand.
There remain to be examined 16 of those hauled in Hasler
Ti
and I can make no statement with respect to their pre-
sent condition. There are 40 in the steam reserve. We have
no reason to suppose that those 40 which are afloat show any
signs of decay; but I cannot positively state to the house
whether or not they will require any repairs. I do not
think that is a matter which need alarm the public, any
more than the condition of the 16 which have not yet been
examined in Haslar slip, but which may be found defective.
With regard, however, to those that are afloat, I am rather
more hopeful that they will net require such extensive re-
pairs as some persons seem to suppose. With regard to
the mortar vessels, undoubtedly those which have been
examined have been found extremely defective. Two of
those at Chatham, have been broken up, in consequence of
their timber and planks having been found one mass of de-
cay. But with regard to two others which I find it stated
in the newsrepers to-day are in a similar condition, we have
not yet received any report at the Admiralty. I should state
that we have found some defects in the government-built
boats, and 11 of them have also had to undergoconsiderable
repairs. But the only boats at Hasler slip that have not yet
been examined are the 16 I have already named. All the rest
have been examined or are As
meat, all di think we may assume

Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR called the attention of the
house to the state of the law with regard to collisions at sea
so far as foreign vessels were concerned; and asked the
President of the Board of Trade whether her Majesty's Go-
vernment were prepared to urge on the Governments of
other countries the expediency of establishing some interna-
tional rule for assimilating the liability of shipowners in
eases of collision at home and abroad ?
Mr. M. GIBSON stated that cOmmimications had already
passed between the Board of Trade and the Foreign-office
in reference to the subject to which the hon. member had
just called attention, with the view of bringing about some
international arrangement. With regard to the question of
the hon. member for Sunderland, as to whether the Govern-
ment intended to introduce any measure to carry into effect
the recommendations of the Harbours of Refuge Commis-
sion, he admitted that the matter was of great importance.
There could be no difference of opinion that it was desirable
that harbours of refuge should exist, especially upon the
eastern coast, where so many merchant vessels were in the
constant habit of passing. The main question, however,
was, where the money was to come from. The committee
recommended that the expense should be defrayed by a toll
levied upon the passing ships, but the opinion of the com-
missioners was that the expenditnre should be defrayed by
a parliamentary grant. He did not find upon instituting
inquiries that either the shipowners or the insurers valued
harbours of refuge sufficiently to be willing to take upon
themselves any considerable portion of the charge, and with
regard to a parliamentary grant, that was a question for the
consideration of the Treasury. The question was now un-
der consideration, and instructions had been given to pre-
pare a bill to carry out to a great extent the recommenda-
tions of the commission. It was not, however, intended to
give effect to them, but the provisions of the bill would give
facilities for making improvements without putting the
parties in each case to the expense of a special act of Par-
liament.
FRENCH FORTIFICATIONS AT ST. PIERRE.
Mr. iHALIBURTON rose to call the attention of the-
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to the state of the
French fortifications at St. Pierre; and to ask whether
there would be any objection to lay upon the table of the
house copies of all questions submitted to the law officers
of the Crown ? The hon. gentleman said there were two
small islands on the northern shore of the Straits of Belle -
isle, lying between them and the Labrador coast, which
having been taken from the French, had been restored
upon conditions expressly stipulated in the treaty of 1763.
Those conditions were that no building was to be erected,
except for the purpose of the fishery ; that not more than
50 soldiers were to be kept as police ; and, above all, that
they were to erect no fortifications whatever. Fortifica-
tions, however, had been erected; and on a former occa-
sion he had asked the noble lord whether his attention had
been called to the fact, and whether steps had been taken,
either by application from the governor of Newfoundland
or from the Government of this country to the Govern-
ment of France, to restrain the erection of those fortifica-
tions. The French flag was constantly flying, and many
of the inhabitants of the island were Frenchmen, who,
though well disposed to her Majesty, still felt that France
was their fatherland. He did not complain so muchof the
erection of buildings on the island as of armed batteries.
The few English fishermen who had at times seen the bat-
teries, upon asking the meaning of them, were told, with a
shrug of the shoulders, " Oh,lthat's the morning battery
and this the evening battery, and they are placed there by
the Emperor." In fact, no secret was made of the matter.
Mr. E. JAMES asked the noble lord the Secretary •of
State for Foreign Affairs whether it was the intention of
the Government to proceed continuously with the Reform
Bill, the consideration of which in committee had been
postponed till the 4th of June, so as to afford to the other
branch of the legislature the opportunity of passing into law
that bill during the present session.
Mr. GRIFFITH asked the noble lord the Secretary of
State for Foreign Affairs whether he was now able to give
any assurance that no French troops would be moved into
the provinces of Chablais and Faucigny until the question
of the dispositions to be adopted as to those neutralised pro-
vinces should be finally determined upon by diplomatic con-
sultation and agreement. The how gentleman said he did
not wish to make any attack upon the noble lord, for he ac-
knowledged the difficulty of his position, and whoever had
occupied that'. osition would find himself surrounded by the
same difficulties. He wished to point out that if France were
allowed to occupy those provinces before any settlement
took place she would not withdraw her troops afterwards,
and therefore he desired the British Government to make
their proceedings intelligible at this stage of the matter. He
thought it would be better for Switzerland that they should
withdraw from the matter at once than that they should be
drawn into a proceeding which would be delusive from the
beginning. He would just remind the noble lord that M.
Thouvenel had said in one of his despatches that, in case of
the annexation of Savoy to France these provinces would be
given to Switzerland, and he (Mr. Griffith) only expressed
the feeling of this country in the matter when he asked the
noble lord whether he could give any assurance that that
arrangement would be carried out, and that France would
not be allowed to occupy these provinces. (Hear, hear.)
THE REFORM BILL.
Mr. SCULLY asked the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs whether her Majesty's government would agree to
introduce provisions applicable to Ireland into the Repre-
sentation of the Peopls Bill for England and Wales. The
hon. member said a feeling was very general that there
was no sincerity in the house on the subject of reform. It
had been stated that if the house voted by ballot, there
would only be found two votes in favour of the noble
lord's bill—that of the noble I,rd himself and his backer,
the hon. member for Birmingham. (A laugh.) But who
could say_whether there would be even those two ? (Hear,
hear.) For his own part if he were charged with insincerity
he should plead guilty to the soft impeachment. He had
long since suggested to the Government the desirableness
of having but one reform bill. He would rather have bad
laws in common with England than good laws which were
peculiar to Ireland. That might sound like a paradox, but
the explanation would be very intelligible. If they had bad
laws in common with France, it was not likely that those
bad laws would long be tolerated, but if they had good laws,
peculiar to Ireland, what security had they that they would
not be converted into bad ones by a tyrannical majority ? Lf
the house was insincere on the subject of the noble lord's
bill, what were the people ? Why, he found from a paper
put into his hand that morning that the total number of
signatures which had been appended to petitions of any kind
on the subject of reform was only 90,000. (Hear.) Thera
were only 9,711 in favour of the noble lord's bill, and only-
two (signatures) in favour of the entire scheme of the
Government. (Hear, hear.) He did not think that the
people of Ireland (who, by the bye, had petitioned more
numerously in favour of reform than the people of England)
cared about the subject at all. He had lately visited some
of the most important towns in the sister country, and he
found that the inhabitants were quite contented with their
present representatives. Already too much time had been
wasted on the noble lord's bill in comparison with the pro-
gress it had made, and before it passed—
" Weary se'nnights nine times nine
Would it dwindle, peak, and pine."
(Laughter.) He might go on with the quotation—
" The' the bill might not be lost,
Yet it should be tempest-tost."
(Loud laughter and cheers.) All kinds of uncomplimentary
epithets had been applied to the measure. It had been
compared to a bread-pill, which would do neither good nor
harm ; and the hon. member for Birmingham had ex-
pressed a hope that it would not prove to be like a Spanish
repast, at which there was very little of meat, but a very
great deal of table cloth. It appeared to him (Mr. Scully)
that that exactly described the characier of the noble lord's
Scheme. (Hear, hear.) In the meantime it had stopped
the way of a great deal of very useful legislation. It was as
if an express train was expected. -Everything had been
shunted out of the way; but when at last it came it turned
out to be a parliamentary of the slowest possible descrip-
tion. (Laughter and cheers.) Let the noble lord take it
off the line altogether, and let the proper business of the
session pursue its course. Let the noble lord, if he pleased,
throw the blame on the house, or let him throw it all on
him—(loud laughter)—but if he adopted this course be
would do the country a real service. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. BOUVERIE said he rose to call the attention of
he house to the manner in which the business was con-
ducted. Last night the house, having gone into committee
of was and means, passed a resolution imposing a license
duty upon refreshment houses, and that resolution having
been passed was, contrary to universal practice and prece-
dent, reported forthwith to the house without, as was usual,
a day's delay. The house was aware that immediately a
resolution was thus reported steps were taken by the Re-
venue Department for levying the duties thereby imposed;
so that by reporting the resolution forthwith no opportu-
nity was aff3rded to the house or to those members who
happened not to be present at the time of the discussion
to re-consider the matter and determine whether it was ex-
pedient that a tax of the kind should be imposed. (Hear,
hear.) It was a matter of very great importance, and the
respect they owed to the forms of the house should compel
them on some future day to take some steps in regard to
the proceedings, and perhaps to declare that the report
in question should be null and void, so that it might ap-
pear on the journals of the house that the course that had
been taken was not to be regarded as a precedent.
Mr. DISRAELI said he considered the point to be one
of the greatest public importance. It was not necessary for
him to dilate upon the importance of the forms of the house,
forms which had been invented by the experience of per-
sons for the welfare of the country—but there might at
times be occasions when those forms might be insisted
upon with too great attention, and be unnecessarily multi-
plied. There was, however, one point in respect to which
no difference of opinion could exist. and that was, that when
a question as regarded the imposition of taxes was under
the consideration of the house, the:forms of the house should
be strictly adhered to. In the case of committees of ways
and means, there was a decided rule of the house, that the

Mr. JAMES wished to explain that he never said he
thought the noble lord insincere ; his opinion was quite the
reverse. What he said was the impression in the country
was that the Government were not sincere.
Mr. SCULLY protested against the term inconsistency
;being applied to his conduct.

Lord J. RUSSELL said heby no means intended to refer
:to the hon. and learned gentleman.
CAPTAIN GRANT'S APPARATUS.
Mr. S. HERBERT sail he very much regretted that he
,eould not give a very satisfactory answer to the gallant
officer opposite (Col. Lindsay), who had drawn the atten-
tion of the house to the system of cooking proposed by
Capt. Grant. He should be extremely glad to do anything
which would be agreeable to Capt. Grant ; but he felt bound
to say, upon the question of a disbursement of the national
finances, that it would be difficult, when inventions were
.multiplying so rapidly, to give a reward to him and not to
.others.

THE SICILIAN INSURRECTION.
Mr. GRANT DUFF, in rising, pursuant to notice, to
ask the Solicitor •Gemral whether his attention had been
drawn to an advertisement which appeared in the Times of
the 9th of May, announcing that a subscription had been
opened in London in aid of the Sicilians, and whether per-
.sons in this country who contributed to the fund which it
was proposed to raise would render themselves liable to any
legal process, said it had been suggested that if ho asked
this question he should be asked in return why the recruit-
ing which was going on in Ireland for the Government of
the Pope was not put an end to. He supposed the reason
to be that Government, knowing that other Governments
were getting rid of the refuse of their gaols in that way,
thought they would do the same. But the Sicilian insur-
rection was a very different affair. The Sicilians were
fighting in a good and holy cause, and he did not wish that
- that cause should be damaged by any illegality. It was
not a matter that could be treated with contempt. If it were
true that General Garibaldi had sailed for Sicily the matter
assumed a serious aspect. If he once got into the island
with reinforcements this would be the commencement of a
very great struggle indeed. The towns on the coast might
be under the power of the Neapolitan Governments so long
as the Neapolitan navy could keep the seas, but much of
'he interior was of a character which made it difficult
or regular troops to act ; the towns were built on
y ocky eminences, and it would be easy for a handful of
r esolute men to defend them against any number of such
I; woops as the King of Naples could bring against them. If
t 1 lie insurrection were kept up, the attention of Europe
II Would be drawn to this subscription. He did not think that
41 se subscription would amount to such a sum as to be of
-A ay service to the Sicilians, but it might be considerable
e aough to attract the attention of Europe. If there were
a nything illegal in the subscription, he thought it wise and
p roper that the Government should
oz dy France and Italy, but the whole of the 0,2
si ). They should do this for iw6 reasons ; first, because
uw position with regard to Sicily was a
neculiar one. Not
give warning that it was
We had doigns upon that 0=0Y; —444 tui.",11811
pc Cted that ..i.tinent sus-

report upon resolutions passed in such committees should

not be reported in the same day. All would agree that this
was a most prudent cdirrse to pursue. He had intended to
bring this matter himself before tho house that evening,
but he was prevented from doing so owing to the many in-
teresting matters that came before the house in the course of
the evening. He, however, determined to have done so on
Monday night. He would not at the same time have been
willing to censure the Government for an intentional de-
parture from the practice of the house on this subject, but to
have suggested such a step as would have prevented the
course now complained of from being drawn into a preee-
dent.

LORD J. RUSSELL IN REPLY.

Lord J. RUSSELL—The hon. and learned gentleman op,
posit() has already brought forward the question of these
fortifications on the Island of St. Pierre ; and I am very
sorry that the answer which I then gave him does not ap-
pear to be satisfactory, because I have now little more to do
than to state again what was the substance of that answer.
In 1856—1 think in the month of January —an order was
sent to the Governor of Newfoundland to make inquiries
into the existence of fortifications on the Island of St. Pierre.
In the month of April he made an answer to the question
which was put to him; and he stated that there were forti-
fications commanding the entrance of the harbour—that
there was a battery mounting 8 24-pounders, 2 42-pound
guns commanding the roadstead, and that there was ano-
ther battery at the entrance of the harbour commanding the
south-eastern passage, in which there were 8 42-pounders.
There was likewise a third battery and a barrack capable of
holding iOO or 400 men. Upon this state of affairs the
whole question was submitted to the law officers of the
crown. It was not a single question as to any particular
fortification, but it was a question whether the state of
things described was conformable to the treaty or at va-
riance with it. The hon. and learned gentleman has stated
very truly that from 1713 to 1814 there were various treaties
which made provisions with regard to fortifications on St.
Pierre; and the question was, whether there ought to be for-
tifications or no fortifications on that island ? The answer of
the law officers was, t4eae fortifications did not Aul9lint A

was so important that he hoped that before the debate
closed the Secretary of the Admiralty would give some ex-
planation. The very notion of such a thing was calculated
to alarm the country. (Hear.) As regarded the gunboats at
Haslar, whatever doubts might have existed with regard
to them two years ago, there could be no doubt
now that they were in an extremely rotten state, and
that was, he believed, chiefly owing to their having
been hauled up on a slip and kept dry instead of being
allowed to remain afloat. There was scarcely anybody em-
ployed in a shipbuilder's yard who could not have told them
that that would be the result. Seventy gunboats were
hauled up at an expense of £70,000, and he had no doubt
that the sixteen remaining on the Hasler slip would be
found to be in the same state as the others. As to inspec-
tion, it was impossible for inspectors to know the real state
of the case unless they were constantly present, and he be-
lieved it would be good economy to have a sufficient Aura-

Mr. MASSE Y said that if there had been any impro-
priety in the matter he had been primarily responsible for

Mr. CARDWELL said he did not propose what should
be done on a future occasion. The departure from the forms
of the house which had taken place was to be regretted. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer was of that opinion, and
would makea statement on the subject to the house on
Monday next.
The SPEAKER said there was no doubt that a resolu-

tion should not be reported to the house the same day it
was agreed to. There was no doubt that this was the prac-
tice of the house, and that that should have the force of a
rule. He had noticed it at the time on returning to the
house, but no objection being raised, and understanding
that it had met with the general concurrence of the houEa
he had put the resolution. There, however, could be no
doubt but that the course was irregular and should be cor-
rected. (Hear, hear.)

xvir, ASICQUIVI' hoped tka Ogutethilag mod po done

THE
SUN LONDON' SATURDAY EVENING MAY 12 1860
2922 • . . ,
~ - ....
.....................
given to Captain Grant for the t services he had that they are not in so verydefective a condition as some Pere ber of insPectors to watch, the !nhole Proness of building. to an infraction Of the various treaties which had been en- 'it mig•ht be shown that an English occupation would con- ' out the concurrence, and he (sir c, wood) was justified Ito prevent the recurrence of an irregularity such as that
rendered in improving and economising the system. sons appear to believe. I nowwish to say afew words withre- PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS. tered into. The hon. and learned gentleman aski me to pro- fer a great benefit on the island, yet in five or six years our in saying against the opinions of the other members of the ' which had taken place.
He contended that the gallant captain was entitled to the spent to the question of, inspection. -undoubtedly itisa.civis- Mr. HOWES called attention to the report of the com- duce the question submitted to the law officers, and the an- rule would be intolerable there; and it was desirable that council, the minute was published by Sir C. Trevelyan ; Lord PALMERSTON agreed in the propriety of some-
y mission on the costs of prosecutions ; and asked the &ere_ swer which they returned to it ; but to do so would be foreign nations should be disabused of the notion that we and to their surprise, the othee members of the council saw thing being done to mark that irregularity, and they would
gratitude mid the substantial proof of the approval of his able there should be a verycareful inspection by Admiralt
services by the country. That officer had been requested officers of all vessels that are being built by conract, and tary of State for the Home Department, whether it was the quite against the rule which has always been adopted, have any design upon it, Another reason why Govern_ his minute and their minute' in the public newspapers of consider the best course to adopt on Monday next.
intention of the Government to bring in a bin, or take any In such cases it is not considered right to produce the ment should disavow all connivance with an illegal attempt Madras. It was at first suppoSed that the document might ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
hy`the Russian and other Governments to supply them as a general rule the Admiralty always appoint a superior
with his invention. 1 officer, who acts as an inspector in every yard where those other steps, in relation to the subject of the said report ? opinion ef the law officeri of the crown ; and believing; as to assist the Sicilians was, that tho true and wise course have got out of the office by some misconduct or negligence Tho motion that the house on its rising do adjourn till
Mr. CAVE also adv ted the Aims of the gallant ' vessels are being constructed. One officer, however, acts as Sir G. C. LE WIS answered in the negative. I do, that that rule is formed upon very good reasons, I for this country, as the upholder of the constitutional in- of some clerk in the Council-officenand an inquiry was in- Monday was then agreed to.
• ector in:a yard whatever may be the nin bar of vessels
cannot comply with the hon. and learned gentleman's re- terest of Europe, was to strive that the principle of na- stituted, but it was found that no such misfeasance had PENSIONS TO OFFICERS FOR WOUNDS.
officer.
' INSPECTION OF VESSELS.
• being built in it, and hence it is that it becomes desirable
quest. The matter cf the fisheries is quite a different one. tional boundaries should be respected, and that every na- taken place. An application was then made to Sir C. Tre • Colonel NORTH moved an Address to her Majestaa
, HARBOURS OF REFUGE.
Sir F. SMITH drew the attention of the noble lord
The hon. and learned gentleman said, I daresay very truly, tion should settle its quarrels with its rulers in its own ter- velyan's private secretary, who stated at once that they praying that she would be graciously pleased to reconsider
we should have as many vessels as possible constructed in
Mr. LINDSAY. tasked the President of the Board of
(Lord C. Paget) to this subject, and he made different sug-
one yard. We have at this moment 24 vessels being built
that there were 30,000 Frenchmen employed in these fishe- ritories. If we could only once prevent despotic Powers had been issued bY him, and that he had authority for it ; the warrant granting pensions and allowancee to officers of
Trade when her Majesty's Government intended to intro-
gestions in reference to the matter.
1 by contract, and we have 17 inspectors attached to the yards
ries. It is the practice of the French Government, and I interfering to put down the people, and make it a rule and by a minute recorded by Sir C. Trevelyan he, in the the land forces limited to woUnds and injuries received in
anoe measures to c into effect the recommendations of
LIABILITIES OF SHIPOWNERS IN CASES OF
the Harbours of Refuge Commission. The hon.. member in which the w.orks are carried on; but as there are two or
COLLISION AT SEA. believe it is also the practice of the Government of the that reither a despot should interfere to support despo- most gallant and honourable manner, to use theleeal phrase action-which was agreed to.
m. ore vessels being
.constracted in some of
.the yards, there.
United Sta.tes, to give large boun. ties. in order to promote tism, nor a liberal Government to support a liberal Go- avowed and justified the act. Sir C. Trevelyan stated in that THAMES EMBANKMENT.
ha • g adverted to the great loss of life and property
Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR called the attention of the
is non.e of t.heen wi. Mout a Government inspector. This
those fisheries. It is part of their policy to do so, rather, I vernment, we might be sure that before long the liberal minute, which would be laid before the house with other Sir J. PAXTON moved the appointment of the select
which
had taken place dining the past y , said that a coin-
house to the state of the law with regard to collisions at sea
mittee had been appointed to inquire into the best means for question, of ms. pectir, however, is one involved in some dif-
so far as foreign vessels were concerned ; and asked the believe, withne view to have a. large number of seamen than party would be able completely to crush their oppressors. pa:pers, " I take the earliest opportunity of stating that, act- committee on Thames Embankment to consist of the follow-
Private alup-builders are only invited at some pe-
with a view to any commercial profits that they might de- If he had made it perfectly clear that his object in putting ing on my sole responsibility, I freely distributed copies of ing members :-Sir Joseph Paxton, Lord John Manners,
the prevention of such losses in futive. That committee were fieultY.
President of the Board of Trade whether her Majesty's Go-
. ously of opinion that the best means to be adopted riod of public emergency to contract for the supply of nessels
ve ent were prepared to urge on the Governments of rive from them. It is a totally separate question, and does the motion was a friendly one-and he wished the revolt the minute to the members of the Government as to Mr. Mr. Cowper, Sir John Pal ington, Mr. Alderman Cubittf
was the establishment of harbours of refuge on the coasts for the royal navy, and at such a time we are at full work in
other countries the expediency of establishing some interne- not relate to treaties at all. It is a matter of trade policy, • every successy and that it would extend to the main land, Wilson's financial statement, with the view to secure for Sir John Shelley, Mr. Stirlieg, Mr. Tite, Lord Robert
of Scotland, England, and Wales. (Hear, hear.) That the royal dockyards, where men are employed during extra
tional rule for assimilating the liability of shiteo ors in with respect to which it would not be convenient to enter at and be successful there to the destruction of the present Go- them the utmost publicity." The supreme Government of Montagu, Mr. Walter, Sir Morton Peto, Mr. .Philins, Mr.
committee recommended the appointment of a royal b.ours and on talc jobs ; and it then becomes a matt,er of
eases of collision at home and abroad ? the present moment. Of course the hon. and learned gentle- vernment of,Naples-and if he had made it perfectly clear India were in possession of the views of the Government of Hempen, Mr. Yorke, and Mr. Beamish. Power to send for
co ission to ascertain the most eligible site great importance that in the dockyards themselves the mast
Mr. M. GIBSON stated that cOmmunications had alread man can, if he thinks fit, find fault with the policy adopted that the English Government should do nothing to support Madras ; all the great taxes proposed by Mr. Wilson had persons, papers, and records ; five to be the quorum.
vigilant superintendence should be exercised. The cense-
y some few years ago of discontinuing the system of bounties. the insurrection, he had said enough, and he would con- formed the subject of correspondence between them and the Agreed to.
for these harbours. He was a member of:that commission,
passed between the Board of Trade and the Forei -office
WAYS .AND MEANS.
and they had endeavoured to carry out their duties. They quence is that it is more than usually difficult to find in-
in reference to the subject to which the hon member had The noble lord (Lord levaine) asked me a question about clude by putting the question. supreme Government, and there was ample time for remon-
recommended that £2,360,000 should be expended on the specters for overlooking the work done in private establish- .
t ailed tt t. 'th th ' •• • ' the fisheriesconvention with regard to Newfoundland. That The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he hoped he should strance. lf Sir C. Trovelyan desired to remonstrate, it was The house then went into committee, and voted
construction of these harbours of refuge. He thought it ments. We are at this moment, however, most careful that jus c aen ion, wi e view of bringing about some .
international gement. With regard to the q estio f
n o is a subject of great importance, and the negociations upon not be considered wanting in respect to the house if he con- his duty to address his remonstrance to the central Govern- £9,500,000, ahhicb. was necessary for the public service, and
a waste of time to appoint commissions if they did an efficient system of supervision should take place with re-
the hon. member for Sunderland as to wheth r Oen G it have now lasted for a considerable time ; but I hope they fined himself to a precise answer to the question, and de. anent of India, and with his views he would have been fully the votes for which had been already agreed to ire nom-
ard to all vessels being built by contract, and we have a
are approaching their termination. Capt. Dunlop, the com- clined to follow the hon. member into the observations in justified in so doing. Indeed it was his duty, holding those mittee of stipply.
not act on their suggestions', and he considered that g
ment intended to introduce any Measure to e,:r LeZernc;
if the money required could not be advanced, there variety of checks against abuses in that matter. We have
missioner sent to Paris to complete them, has returned home. which he had thought proper to indulge. His attention views, to place them before the Government of India for FISHERIES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
the recommendations of the Harbo of RefurYe Com '
sheuld be loans towards carrying out the construction of not only an inspector in each yard, but we send down offi-
He has this day seen my noble Mend the Secretary of State had been called to the advertisement by the question itself their consideration. But he went further than that, and he This bill was read a third time and passed.
sion, he admitted that the matter was of great fir:Torte=
cers periodically to examine and report how the work is
for the Colonies, and lam told that the explanation which which the hon. member had put. He had read the adver- took a step which he must say, for a man holding.such a ;The house then adjourned at half-past one o'clock.
harbours of refuge.
There could be no difference of opinion that it was desirable • • ,
MORTAR VESSELS AND BOATS. being performed ; and the vessels afterwards undergo a sur-
that harbours of refu e should exist, especiall u on the he has given is satisfactory to the noble duke. The gallant tisement. It solicited subsmiptions in aid of the Sicilians,
_position in any country-but especially in India-seemed
----
Mr. W. EWART asked- the Secretary to the Admiralty vey at the period when they are delivered up to the Admi-
eastern coast, where sgo many merchant vessels Ywefe in the eaptain is about to return to Paris, when he hopes to bring to and requested that the money, which person,s in this coun- to him altogether unjustiaable ;he appealed to the public of RAIL WAY IN TBLLIGENCE: .
what were the measures adopted for subjecting to a striet rally. We thus take every possible precaution against bad
co t habit of passing. The main question however a termination this negociation. The opinion of the commis- try might be disposed to subscribe, should be paid into the India against the measures of the Indian Government.
__on__
•
system of inspection, while they are being built, gunboats workmanship and bad material ; and while lam upon that
was, where the money was to come from. The 'committee sioner has been that it would not be necessary to have any hands of certain persons living in this country whose names (Hear.) Sir C. Trevelyan said further in his minute, " The
TRAFFIC RETURNS FOR THE IN EEK.
and other vessels, built on contract for the Government ? subject I will appeal to myhon. and gallant friend the mem-
r !amended that the expense should be defrayed b a toll new treaty, but that the treaty which already exists, with a were given, and the proposal was that this money should be state of public opinion had to be collected in order to bear
Sir J. PAKINGTON rose for the purpose of asking the ber for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) whether he does not think
levied upon the passing ships, but the opinion of thye com- proper interpretation and with proper measures taken to transmitted to Genoa, and be there disposed of by a corn- upon the Government, and I therefore accepted Mr. Wilson's
Railways. Miles Opened Receipts:
~._____....._____. r___-.......___,,,
Secretary to tke Admiralty what was the real extent of the the Admiralty have shown great anxiety to arrive at the
missioners was that the expendienre should be defrayed b carry it into effect, would be sufficient. I will not, therefore, mittee stated to be presided over by General Garibaldi. challenge to public discussion, and disregarded his subse-
-1860. 1859. 1860. 1859.
injury by decay which had been discovered in her Majesty's truth in those cases in which they had every reason to Eats-
a parliamentary grant. He did not find upon instituti: enter any further into that matfer; but I trust I shall soon .Therefore, the question was whether the subscription of quent instructions." (Hear, hear.) Mr. Wilson thought - ,
mortar vessels and gunboats : whether it was true that im- Peet that fraud had been practised by contractors. The
inquiries that either the shipowners or the insurers valuegd be able to announce the completion of the negotiations. The money by one of her Majesty's subjects in this country, by it not desirable that the provincial Governments of India Ballymena and Portrush... 35 .35 4..... 1 4.....
properworkmanshipand fasteningshadalso beendiscovered; only other question I have to answer is that which has been
harbours of refuge sufficiently to be willing to take upon hon. gentleman opposite (Mr: Griffith) asked me, with re- paying it into the hands of another person who i was a should be committed by public discussion to oppoaition. He Bedule and Leyburn lO 10 - -
65 1,537 1,212
and what steps the Board of Admiralty had taken or in- Put to me by the hon. baronet the member for the city of
themselves any considerable portion of the charge, and with gard to Faucigny and Chablais, whether we have received foreigner living here, for the purposes and with the object thought it was a seemly position for Mr. Wilson to take, to Eileen:l aanncl ttallytmy n
uu eDoaven i 17 614 568
tended to take in consequence of the present state of those Dublin with regard to the position of surgeons in the navy.
regard to a parliamentary grant, that was a question for the any assura:nce thiath no lairencdh trtoops will be moved into that he had described, came within any rule of common obtain the opinion of the provincial governments, but it was Birkd., Lane., & Ches. June. 33 ' 33 5,782 5,059
20 20 1,865 :1,955
vessels. The right hon. baronet said that before he put I have to inform t..he hon. baro. net that
hthe surgeofns
there
consideration of the Treasury. The question was now un- those provmr. t avte
.7 y s ated that the French Gho-t law cr within any statute law of this country. Now, it not seemly that Sir C. Trevelyan, as the governor of a su- 11.1sirstitiorLIMepter
125 119 6,681 5,399
vern. ment re use o en.er
_in o any e.ngagement upon t a appeared to him that so long as that which was done was bordinate dependency, should invite public discussion in
198 f 1981 14,480 13,007
these questions he should express a hope that the right hon. now about to receive a new 'uniform. T e reasons or e
der consideration, and instructions had been given to pre-
Caledonian '
Nntle the President of the Board of Trade would give delay which has taken place in that matt.er are that hre haze
pare a bill to carry out to a great extent the recommenda- , point. . They h.ave said t.hat they will not send any troops limited within the boundary of a mere subscription in this opposition to the central government, and proclaim', himself Ches.&Holyhead(with3loold) 941 9;13
2-61 14-8
t satisfactory er to the appeal which had been addressed felt it necessary that all the.non-executive officers mas . p
tions of the commission. It was not, heviever, intended to into t.lia neutral!sed provinces of Savoy until the vote of the country ae the advertisement limited it, no law of this the head and leader of that opposition. (Hear, hear.) Ewes . F‘ecrik,eanrnedottalinfeloWn orkmeton 8/
20 20 335 382
ve a uniform distinct from that of the executive
S.ardiman Parhament has completely ceded those posses- country Would be violated. The only statute which in any quite clear that the authority of any government could not Cork, Blackrock, & Passage.
to him by thehon. member for Sunderland on the subject should ha
give effect to them, but the provisions of the bill would give
61 61 2g 2:47t
d that we did not wish to decide what should be
sions of Savoy ; but that after that time they will entermto way bore on the matter was the Foreign Enlistment Act. be. upheld and maintained if such a system of insubordina- 1..? l.
of the construction of harbours of refuge. He coincided in officers, an
facilities for making improvements without putting the
Deu eslidne& Belfast J ction 1673 156 1,2260 1,2105
rd that had fallen from his Mend with: respect to the uniform of the first of these classes until the House of .. .
no engagement on the subject. The hon. gentleman is so That act hrohibited two thmgs, it prohibited the enlistment tion were tolerated. There had been misehief enough aris- Dublin anti Drogheda 63 63 1,720 11,717
every wo
parties in each case to the expense of a special act of Par-
Commons should agree to grant the sums necessary for im-
far right that I conceive any prospect of making a differ- • • • • - -
of soldiers, and it prohibited the fitting out of vessels of war ing from insubordination in India not to allow it to extend Dub. & Wicklow (m.H.-ingst.) 401 401 12,472 2,088
the immense importance for the protection of life and pro-
liament.
Dundalk and Enniskillen
their general condition. With regard to cabins, I
ence in the arrangements would be very imich clouded by for service under or against foreign governments. As far farther. There had been a mutiny in the army, native and Dundee and Arbroath . l7l 171 648 stl
perty, of establishing better harbours of refuge than those we Proving
FRENCH FORTIFICATIONS AT ST. PIERRE.
cannot hold out the least. hope that the Admiralty will give
that fact-as well as the prospect of naaking any proposal Es he was able to form an opinion, no one who thought pro- European, and now there was a mutiny of one governor Dundee, Perth, & Aber. Jun. 31 31 1,070 941
at present possessed along onr coast ; and he trusted that no
Mr. lIALIBURTON rose to call the attention of tha
East Anghan 67/ 67/ 964 1,013
the surgeons the same kind of cabins that are given to cap-
that no French troops should occupy the country. I did per to put his hand in his pocket and take out money to pay against another-(hear)-and her Majesty's Government at
considerations of economy would deter her Majesty's Go-
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to the state fth
E.Counties,Nrfk.,&E.Union 499 489 26,017 26,110
tains of ships. •We are anxious that proper cabins should
0 0 not understand at first what the hon. gentleman proposed •
it to a person to send' it to Genoa, to be there disposed of by home would have been wanting in their duty if they had de- East Kent l9/ - _ _
vernMent from carrying out the recommendations of the
French fortifications at St. 1:”
Jerre ; and to ask whether
be provided for surgeons, but we cannot place them in the
n_
that we should do. I have not, as he states, given any as- General Garibaldi-he did not suppose that any person in 'eyed a moment taking notice of an act so insubordinate and P.l.eancashireannelackburn)
,111 105 - -
sommissioners in that matter. He should also say that he
ere would be any objection to lay upon the table of the
Vinnbuturgh and Glasgow
same position in that case as captains. My right hon. friend La
surance to this house which we were not able to fulfil. The the exercise of such benevolence, would violate either the so dangerous to the maintenance of our rule in India. di b •gh, Perth,& Dundee d 8 78 3,138 3,291
hoped his noble Mend the Secretary to the Admiralty would
• h house copies of all questions submitted to the law officers
th & Clyde Junction
opposite has stated that, according to theinformation whic
hon. gentleman now says that we ought to withdraw from common law or the statute law of this country. (Hear.) (Hear, hear.) They might eertainly have reprimanded Sir for
be able to offer to the house a satisfactory explanation with
of the Crown ? Th h tl •
e on. gen eman said there were two
• Furness
he received, a cabin was refused to an assistant-surgeon on
all further negotiations upon the subject. That is a matter
C. Trevelyan, but in that case they must have sent a repri-
183f et2ale 7,922 7,309
reference to the position of medical officers in the navy. He
small islands on the northern shore of the Straits of Belle- INDIA-RECALL OF SIR CHARLES TREVELYAN
Glasgow & South-Western
board the Queen, while that accommodation was afforded to .
certainly of very grave consideration, and I 'cannot at pre-
mand in terms so severe that no man could have remained ctreat Northern 283 283 25,783 23,251
had upon a former occasion mentioned that a statement had
Mr. DANBY SE Y..h
TOUR said ho rose to ask the Secre-
the head master and other inferior officers. Capt, Hillyard, hl l • b t th d h •
is e,. ying e ween em an t e Labrador coast, which sent give any assurance to the house of that nature. The
under it. But that would have been a shabby course, and he
%etched him, to the effect that an assistant-surgeon had
(_t''rert.Totui'tininrtn&nnftsSei%itltinrlci ) 2261 2g 1::494 Ng
)ema unable to obtain a cabin on board the Queen although however, who commanded that vessel, has informed me that eying bee.n. taken from the French, had ee'en restored hon. and learned member for Marylebone asked me a ques- tarY of State for India N.vhether it was true tle.et he. had
thought it was more just and more kind to Sir C. Trevelyan ureat We;tern •
uon conditions xrsl ti • - • • • • ' •
18 18
e pes y s pulated in the treaty of le 63. non upon a very different subject, with regard to the Re- taken the decisive and important step of recalling Sir C.
himself that they should take the responsibility on them- Hull and Holderness
-- -
he gave every cabin he could for the use of the assistant- P
b f d ' h l f hh ' • •
;abins had een oun in t at vesse or t e ead-master
md other inferior officers. His noble friend had told him surgeons, and that at last one of them wished to turn him out Those cfondi:ions were that no building wa, to be erected, form Bill. I think he has shown some candour in admit- Trevelyan from the governorship of Madras ? He might be
selves of recalling him rather than to place him in a position ieriivsneosust itiz...k es Ldrenea June. gi ,2i 831446 747,15)
hat there was no truth in that statement ; but he (Sir J. of his own steward's berth, as it is called. (A laugh.) He re- e_xcepltdi o:etwerpeutropc
ir littes fishle.rer thadt n: ..3 tint ting that the Government have given some ground and ap- permitted to address to the.house a few observationsnlshow-
in which he would have been driven in a corner, and had Kilian? Jiiandetta%
le
in 41 41 _ 7-._- .
E'akington) had still some rea.son ta doubt whether his fused to accede to that demand, an.d that is the only founda- °°
thee; weern to erect no Ertificaitiocze ,wialtivaerovepaor,tifio: pearance for the charge of insincerity that has been laid ing !he
dimyiff:
rei‘ei
(oif this step, as he.was pesfect y ac-
no alternative but to resign. (Hear.) He (Sir C. Wood) L 1.1; s. e.
necanaairaand Windermeres 1001 1001 - -
tion for the story to which my right hon. friend has alluded. agains: them ;II I ahrla equally ready to decl.are that his con- quaint wit d
he
haad atsrdarrnthmenht as it.wats six or rvien
therefore did not hesitate for a raiment to take the re- nenc.r.il=tielaceskburn) 1,41 esei 35,2 g 30,1%
lade friend himself might not have been misinformed upon
tions, however, had been erected ; and on ais er occa: duct
.s o.ws cfonsi era e appearance tha! he is not favourable years ago, atn f
aemost
sponsibility of bringing the subject before his colleagues in L!
inmarelicy Yli
hat subject. He would next proceed to put to his noble Sir J. PAKINGTON-Are we to understand that it is
sion he had asked the noble lord whether his attention had this bill o reform. (A ytugh.) I admit a degree of candour governmen , o sChaaeotiCostate.e 00fIltshoe Ire
osuannt ere s o m s
y, and of
riend the questions of which he had given notice with re- the intention of the Admiralty to prosecute contractors in
been called to the fact, and whether steps had been taken
most o ressive taxation amountin to 50 er cent of t
/in that respect equal to his. But with regard to the period of PP . g P • he the Government, and by his advice it was determined that London & North-Wes.tern . 917 891/ 82,533 7.3,035
pect to our gunboats and mortar vessels. For several weeks all cases in which there are reasonable grounds for suspect-
either by application from the governor of Newfoundland the introduction of this bill I must say that the Ist March gross produce of the soil. He had now to show on the other Sir C. Trevelyan should be recalled. In order that the autho- nom= istlottl=ern
339
30p
118:561011
11,43,2
ast the publie journals have been daily full of statements ing them of fraud ? (Hear, hear.)
rity of the supreme Government of India might be supported "EL
Lond. Brighton, &S. Coast. 223/ 190/ 15,972_ 1.1..,431
or from the Government of this country to the Govern- was not a very late date u on which to bring in a bill of hand that in that presidency, after a short reign of one
n (Hear.) He L'derry and Enniskillen
rith regard to the decay of those vessels ; and not only that Lord C. PAGET-We are taking legal opinions for the
and maintained no other course was ope .
Lond., Tilbury, & Scuthend. 45 45 966 11,395
ment of France, to restrain the erection of those fortifica- hi le d Th th h 13
d 1 d tl ear b the personal influence of the governor, the po ula-
en e on.. an came gen eman suppoaes Y. , Y .
thought the recall of Sir C. Trevelyan a great public lose,
Man.,Sheffield, &Lincolnsh. 174 171 12,( 70 10 ,509
ut complaints had been repeatedly made with respect to purpose of ascertaining how far we have the power of insti- tions. The French flag was constantly flying, and many tthast Illllia've 1d th 't bfif d
postponed this bill to the London Corporation tion was reconci e to e government i e ore ate ,
blic Manch. S.Jun.&Altrincham 91 9 1,029 956
tie conduct of the contractors who had undertaken the tuting such proceedings.
b t't ould hav b
u i ve e een a nreater pub.lic danger if a pu
of the inhabitants of the island were Frenchmen, who, Reform Bill end other measures That is quite an erroneous an equitable assessment had been carried out, and
Maryport and Carlisle 2B 28 1,213 ;175
servant had been allowed to remain in office after an act so midland
614/ 614/ 40,350 33,i, !14
uilding of that portion of our naval force. He hoped his Sir C. NAPIER said it appeared that the contractors in though well disposed to her Majesty still felt that France 't* h' t•'h . t hi t f contrary to the traditions of the old East India Company
.oble friend would c nsider that the best course for him to that case had fairly told the Government that they could was their fatherland. He did not con], plain so muchof the su. pposifion on is p.ar , owing per aps
lof
Is
hwand o.dexpe-
land for the first time in India had been sold in fee simple' subversive of all authority and so dangerous to the main- Midland Gt.Westn. of Irind. 177, 17,7 4,908 4,809
1,391 3 5:22
flencedo tfhe procee.dings of th.e blouse.
tenance of our rule in India-so calculated to promote ht
nee in that matter would be to tell the truth. (Hear, not provide seasoned timber ; and although the Government erection of buildings on the island as of armed batteries d
tha t
tsahi that
mnonkloaulsh. Rail. & Canal 471 V 2,561 2,207
to any person who chose to buy it. It was with astonish-
matea o the Highways Bill, propose ah e com-
opposition, and even insurrection. (Hear, hear.) These Newcastle and Carlisle 7B 78 4,059 3,312
ear, and a laugh.) He did not, of course, mean to imply had received that information, he thought they were per- The few English fishermea who had at times seen th bt '
ment that he heard that the man who had done all this had
e.ti: - mine? on t.he Reform Bill should by taken to-mg t-being
were the grounds on which the Government were prepared Newport,Aberg.,& Herefor 6O 50 1,447 1,341
ay doubt of the veracity of his noble friend, but he fedi); right in the emergency which had by that time teries, upon asking the meaning of them wer t ld
e would I think been recalled. Mr. Wilson had proposed a budget in the .
North British an. Dalkeith) 154 144 5,853 5,351
rusted that his noble friend would candidly lay before arisen to order that the gunboats should be constrested. shrug of the shoulders, "Oh that's the moernein ' bwlatt a a notice night-t.he members of this.dhoushat
.t ) 2 . .
atter Legislative Council of India. He proposed it openly, stating h 11 of Sir C Trevelyan. He thought it was
to justify t e reca . .
North Devon 35 35 419 4Xte
ie house the whole of the facts with regard to the state But he should like to learn from the noble lord who evere and this the evenine battery lid the are placed gthe ell! gfenerally, and w. ith reason, have sfai ,th ih was afinh .
the financial diffibuities under which the Government of their duty to do so, and it was also their duty to allow no North-Eastern
Tre- North London 716 735/ 10,213 34,5 W
9 9 2,546 2,52 X
kfar toto g.reat import,alnce to be le t. to t. e c ance o eing . , .
- f d time to pass without providing a successor to Sir C.
North Stafibrdshire 233 233 7,990 7,48 n
f those vessels, and that he would, at the same time, in- the contractors who had employed short bolts, and who the Emperor." In'fact, no s'ecret ways made of the martetery °
India laboured, and his plan for meeting them. ne oun
ta en a nine yr ten oc oc on
k a notice night -(hear, hear)
velvan in the gevernorship of Madras, for the government North-Western 46i . 464 - _
a•m them whether there was any fair ground • for casting had thus shown themselves ready to expose the lives of Mr. E. JAMES asked the noble lord the Secrete ni
that there was an extremely large deficit, amounting to nine - .
num N. Yorkshire and Cleveland 101 _
-and that it ought to be taken the first thing on some
of such a presidency was not one in which an interreg
ay serious imputation on the contractors. (Hear, hear.) every man oinboard their ships to the most imminent peril. State for Foreign Affairs whether it was the intenta of ' h h 'll •B I millions for this year and to six millions for the next, and he
Oxford, Worm, & Wolver
evening wen t e orders of the day wi permit. ut may
could be safely permitted. It was true, therefore., thiat the Peebles , 182 181 206 i 196
Hs (Sir J. Pakingtou's) attention had been called to the (Hear, hear.) He wished to know who it was that had re- the Government to proceed continuousl with th R f
stated that he found it necessar to impose three new taxes •
further add, that there have been measures. of very great
last night's mail, which took out the recall of Sir Charles etircsenClarnaill & Railway gg gg ga, 2,110
ate of those g-u-aboats in the year 1851, apid he had felt it' sorted to that fraud in building the Caroline e boat. The Bill, the consideration of which in ornamittee LtdetTen
ne of these was the tobacco ta 3;
which had alread causeci
le importance which have been brought forward in this house
Trevelyan, also tyok out thy commission appointing. S. ir scut
Scottish North-Eastern... . 1!5 115 3,785 3:4(5'
iit duty to subject to an inspection the boats hauled up on name of such a man ought to be made known to the house, postponed till the 4th of June, so as to afford to the
°three rebellions ; and the other t'we were a license taYx and an
other -measures not only of great importance, but of great
He Ward in his place. Sir Henry Ward had admims- Shrewsbury & Birmingham 294 294 -2 192 2 051
ie slips at Hasler. It was then found thtt a certain and he was sure they would all feel that no punishment branch of the legislature the opportunity of passing into law urgency, namely, those which the Chancellor of the Ex- income tax, The license tax, or maturpha tax, which was
tend the tf C 1 nh areat succeis, and had Shrewsbury and Chester
governmen o 48 48 4,066 3,639
anant of the elm planking had decayed, but the decay did esnie be half severe enough for him. (Hear, hear.) Con- that bill during the present session.
levied in the Madras presidency, was condemned by the .
eY
an
wi
'''
tint t th. k the Shrewsbury n Hereford
chhequer hNas
hin.troduced for th.e financia. 1 requirements of
largely improved the revenue, and he i no
~ in . y Shropshire Union 291 1,070 1,058
A appear to have extended any further. The AdmiraltY tractors who did their work in such a manner as to risk the Mr. GRIFFITH asked the noble lord the Secretary of Court of Directors in 1816, and was ordered to be n , more
tthe ytearh. ot nag can be m.ore mconytenient tdo the.country
could have found in the whole Indian or colonial service a South Devon rei 571 3,447 2,807
ad given orders to have that defect removed, and they had lives of officers and men ought to be severely punished. State for Foreign Affairs whether he was now able to ive levied ; but now in 1860, it was still levied in that presi-
South-Eastern 306 302 19,972 19,759
and o re nrasuresf relarg to cisdomds an exciiise post-
more fit person for the office. (Hear.)
South Wales l7ll 171/ 6,436 6,264
cry reason to suppose that those vessels had been placed in (Hear, hear.) 'He wanted the noble lord the Secretary of any assurance that no French troops would be moved tit° dency. He did 'not quarrel with Mr Wilson for proposing
rny :xi r Iracted or a. ozg pbrio
i, unng e;slichf the
Mr. BRIGHT sal
•cl the conclusion ho had arrived at was S. Yorkshire and River Dim 118 108 3,302 2,700,
sound condition. But they were now told that instead of the Admiralty to tell them the names of such contractors, the provinces of Chablais and Faucigny until the uestion
these taxes if they were absolutel n;cessa When they
Stockton and Darlington
.ving merely a few decayed elm planks, the whole frame- that the house might express an opinion with regard to of the dispositions to be adopted as to those neutralliised pro- tit= seeencied to
eniceoitiolrey ;seat IsOineZen.
hrinze ore,
dS• C T 1 y rY.
f •
on were propose ir . reve yan was on a tour o inspec- that Sir C. Trevelyan believed the eourse about to be taken Taff Vale
lster
52 ' 52 2 038 1 729
srk of those vessels was rotten, and within the last fewdays their conduct. (Hear.)
vinces should be finally determined upon by diplomatic con- the Reform Bill till after gthese important matters weregdis- tion in his presidency. He immediately stopped the tour, by the Government of Calcutta was full of danger to the p_
Ulverstone and Lancaster . 19 19 'eB3 '505
had been stated in the newspapers that four of her Ma-
peace of the country, and absolutely unnecessary to restore Vale of Neath 251 251 1,413 1,926
Lord C. PAGET observed that there were inspectors, imitation and agreement. The hon.' gentleman said he did posed of. (Hear hear )Ac ordingly, I have fi dth and returned to Madras, and he penned that able minute,
3ty's mortar vessels had been recently examined and found Sir C. NAPIER would like to know, then, who the in- not wish to make any attack upon the noble lord, for he ac- date of the com'mittee on the 4th of June I hale e
e the publication of which was the cause Of his recall. He the balance in the finances of the empire. Under this neaagliergnanarekocenkgyea.-! N
3_l
___
___
425 420
thcroughly rotten that the Admiralty had no choice but
impression h.e courageously wrote a minute in opposition vv
Waterford and Limerick
specters were, and who appointed them. (Hear, hear.) knowledged the difficulty of his position, and whoever had tioned that time on which to brin it 'on • oTec7'n; thought when hon. members saw this minute they
break them up. That was not, however, the worst part The noble lord had told them that 93 of the gunboats had occupied that'. osition would fiad himself surrounded by the whether it is to come 'on on that da gor not m' ust d tired
would say Sir Charles Trevelyan displayed a know- to the views of the central authority at Calcutta. This west Cor 11
H tl nwal
Harbr. &Rail F9' q,4 7.19 573
the men They were informed through the same chan- been repaired. He did not say what was the extent of the same difficulties. He wished to point out that if France were er much o htis th 1 Yf
th h b ePen
ledge of the subject and of the country entitling him was an. unusual step, and contrary to the ordinary
_Y.: I P
I'v nitaenaever J unction l2 12 4111 3,56,300
Is that th.e workmanship of those nessels was very de-
zrfnen.arnt3hoe
ee onliotitise, eel':
duty of subordinates ; but he (Mr. Bright) held that Whitehaven & Furness Jun. 35 35 723 628
repairs. He said he hoped the 16 gunboats on the Hasler allowed to occuleY those provinces before any settlement :n Lotice drni wweacannot to be heard before the Legislative Council before they put
7 495 395
Aive ; and he was sorry to have to add that there were
Sir C. Trevelyan had, in his administration. of the Go- trohita;niCrigo
onLEogNieinnt 7
slip were not so bad. Hoping was not sufficient in such a took Place she would not withdraw her troops afterwards, bill without Ythe . consent of /Z. memmbers weheouPmaany be in execution any of these new schemes of taxation.
eareges of what must be called dishonest work-charges to
vernenent of Madras, shown himself much more of a states- -"
case. (Hear, hear.) Why had not the Admiralty sent and therefore he desired the Britieh Government to make willing to eive it precedence The hon and le ed He regretted very much to find that when they had a man Antwcrp and Rotterdam 52 52 851' 807 -
ffect that the bolting of the vessels had been such that
man than those who had announced the new scheme of AuscrtylanE t
.3.
t. B2B 673 30,!t6 29,817
some one to examine those gunboats one by one ? Why their proceedings intelligible at this stage of the matter. He member forb Cork asked me ' whether we' would a' of energy and determination as Governor of Madras, a man
ey could not go to sea with safety. These were most serious
financefor India. He was not, however, about to justify the Itkano anisifalle Arroinon. :: 10 - 47., 1,e548 :1
pree who had broken through all the injurious restrictions by
had not the noble lord, who it had been understood was to thought it would be better for Switzerland that they should to i troduce .lauses into the Reform Bill for Eng-
dements, and the time had come when they ought to
indiscretion of Sir C. Trevelyan, nor to blame the Detroit and 31ilwaukie 185 185 3,288 2,182
which his predecessors were bound, and raised the people
do wonders at the Admiralty, 9.scertained the actual state withdraw from the matter at once than that they should be Idad W 1 t hi h uld b 1- bl tI I d
an an aesw c wo e app Ica eore an .
Low what were the real facts of the case. He had not,
Government for his recal, but he believed that his retire- poticild 111,rhanentsnhf
Canada
1:041: t:727A
of the boat sat the Haslar slip? (Hear, hear.) He said drawn into a proceeding which would be delusive from the Really I sappose that when my right hon. friend (Mr in the scale of chinfort and happiness, the home government
far as he was at present informed, the slightest inten-
ment would be felt as a public calamity by the natives o.f '1""
Great Indian Peninsula,- 1941 130/ 3,965 3,402
he hoped the case was not so bad as had been supposed. beginning. He would just remind the noble lord that M. Cardwell) proceeded to defer the second reading of tAe Re:. had thought proper to recal him, because he protested
nit imputing any blame to the Board of Admiralty
the Madras presidency. He might not have been a jude- Great Luxembourg l2l 122 2,505 2,414
Why, good God ! he surely aught to know the real state es Thouvenel had said in one of his despatches that, in case of form Bill for Ireland, he did not answer this question on against a scheme which he believed to be impolitic.
• Great Western of Canada 345 294 9,111 7,628
period when the vessels had been built •
cious subordinate, but he had preved himself to be a wise
, the case. In his opinion, it would do a great deal of good the annexation of Savoy to Prance these provinces would be the former evenin,g • but then he did not understand what Sir C. WOOD said ho was not prepared by the notice of
Lombardo-Venetian 285 285 - -IF- '
r, indeed, had he any information on which he to appoint one of the' Lords of the Admiralty to see that the given to Switzerland, and he (Mr. Griffith) onl expressed . • ' a simple question as to whether he had recalled Sir C Tre: governor. Lyons and Geneva . 142 142 4,657 6,269
was the course which the hon. and learned member for Cork
&Ahcant 3g .2g 12,157 8,624
ild cast any serious imputation on these contractors. rest did their duty. (Laughter.) There ought at all the feeling of this country in the matter when ire asked th velyan for a speech on sub•ects .of sti h at •p i e Sir S. NORTHCOTE expressed his regret that the sub- 11l
madriadAnSr%),•ossa
- -
iroramended. But. the hon. and learned memb. er must se.°
vat allowance must be made for the haste with which
fotroew thenhoanr.agnean: jeet should have been brought forward at a time when no nnae7hern or -"aratice
events to be a complete system of inspection. The gun- noble lord whether he could give any assurance that th et
and therefore he should nojtattempt tO
1 at in such a case it would be necessary to withdraw this
ord Norwegian Trunk •
sse vessels had necessarily been conatructed. The can-
tl • la'
eman in is remarks. The recal of Sir C. Trevelyan was papers had been furnished, and in the absence of L
boats built by contractors were, it appeared, not the only arrangement would be carried out and that France w a
uld bill and to bring in another. The chairman of committees
Paris, Lyons, & Mediterrn Bg 8444 69,84-3 88,-199
kts had been taken up by houses of undoubted reputa •
revel an.
Stanley, who had appointed Sir Charles T y Paris and Orleans 922 922 47,075 51,599 J
ones that were defective. The Government had built a not be allowed to occupy thOse p'rovinces. (Hear, ha
ear.) would naturally object to introduce provisions applicable to caused in no degree by the opinion which he expressed
n, and there appeared to have been no suspicion at the
Paris and Strasburg 1,032 1,016 - -
with regard to the Government scheme of taxation, but Lord PALMERSTON said the Government had no
certnin number under their own officers in their own yards THE REFORM BILL. Ireland into a bill for England and Wales. It is impossible
Royal Danish 69 69 - -
ne that they had not bebn faithfally carried out. Bat the Had those boats been satisfactorily constructed or not M SCULLY asked t.lie Secretany of State for Foreign therefore to propose such clauses as he recommends. Then simply by the act of publishing, he must say most impro- option except to convey their censure of Sir Charles Treve- severe and Meuse 6B 68 1,274 1,345
tement which had recently been made deeply affected the
thern of France 777 773 117,927 16,278
He believed that they had not. The nation ought not to Affa
ii%rs whether her Majesty's government would agree to we should find that questions with regard to the franchise perly and most insubordinately, a most important minute. lyan's conduct by immediately recalling him from his nta
West Flanders
blic mind, and had an important bearing upon the ques- be trifled with any longer. The contractors whoever they introduce provisions applicable to Ireland into the R havine been decided upon this bill we should have more No one could have a greater regard than he bad for that government. The course which that gentleman ought to W. and N.W. of France 712 7a 36,396 :40,391
a how far they could resort to the oontmct system in the
epre- . e. .
b. . d , .
gentleinan both on üblic and rivate grounds but he have adoPted, if he found he could not agree in the policy
might be, and the persons under whose direCtions the info- sent t' fth P 1 B'll
lding of ships for the royal navy without endangerin amoher e
.de:pf:
iti for England and Wales. The discussion on t,l3ie Ins bll
d ie;earn ;hal we should discuss the
C 0 U/17 Tit I' MARKETS.:
thought that the house would agree with him that'the cir- recommended by the Government of India, would have
g rior boats built in the Government yards were con- hon zsti3veeryeu general that there same question over an • wi l only add that thoae
.4e
public interest. Under these circumstances it was ordY structed, ought to be brought to book. (Hear, hear.) Any was•no sinceritgay lin the Lelges
cumstances of the ease were such as fully to justify him in. been to communicate with the Governor General, the
bject of reform. It , hon. members who do not seem to be favourable to the bill
LIVERPOOL--Meen 11.
to the contractors in that case that the whole truth •
ber that Legislative Council, or the Secretary of State. The only
inquiry would, he knew, be attended with great difficulties, had been stated that if the house voted by ballot, there have only to take the course which is the direct course and the course he adopted. The house would remem
uld be made known. He hoped, therefore, that his noble
• • • • • • ' the Indian financial statement of last year showed a deficit explanation which could be offered for his conduct was, We had a fair attendance at this day's market, and the
but there certainly ought to be an inquiry, and it should be would only be found two votes '
in favour of the noble rf they dislike the bill, to vote against it altogether. (Hear,
(cionsumptive demand for wheat improved ; pricee at Tues-
ad would tell them fairly and fully what was the real made as searching as possible. (Hear, hear.) He hoped lord's bill-that of the noble l•rd himself and In b k h Wh t have done is to bri . ' bill 'h' 1
is ac er, ear.). _ awe ng in a ,w lc of about £13,000,000, a,nd that for the present year a deficit that being honestly and sincerely convinebd of the correct-
ay's currencies. Flour neglected. Oats were in fair re-.
dition of those vessels.; whether it was true that they that the hon. and gallant member for Chatham (Sir F. the hon member for Birmingha A 1 eh
• dhi official
of n 9,503,000. With a view of meeting this deficiency the ness of his views, he had voluntarily sacrifice s quest. Oatmeal the turn lower. Beans, peas, and barley
aue .) But who we think ourselves, and which many hon. members of the
wed signs of improper workmanship, and what steps the Smith) would adhere to his purpose of moving for a com- could say whether there would 1:11, (
e even those two ? (Hear, house think, will be a useful measure. If. however, there Government last year proposed a license tax, which was position to accomplish that which he b. elie.ved to.be for the easier to buy. Indian corn neglected, at prices in favour of
miralty had already taken or were prepared to take in •
mittee, and that the members of that committee would not hear.) For his own part if he were charged with insincerity are hon. members who think it a mischievous and dangerous very soon modified into a quasi income tax, to which was public good. The act of insubordination which he had buyers.
sequence of any discoveries they might have made.
_
be content with the statement of witnesses, but go down he should plead guilty to the soft impeachment. He had bill, let them throw it out and take the responsibility on added a tax on tobacco. They invited the opinions of all committed might have entailed consequences of tho most
WAKEFIELD-Meer 11.
Ir. B. OSBORNE said he hoped the noble lord would and examine persenally every' one of the defective gun.- long since suggested to the Government the desirableness themselves. But to call it at one time a very small bill, the govemore of India, including, of course, the Governor disastrous character on our rule in India. They had
Wh f• 1 fht • ••
e ave a air suppy o w ea , .
with a limited sale at
, inform the house whether any officer connected with boats. Millions of money were being spent annually on the of havin k t
• of Madras, with regard to those taxes In the course of strongly censured one act of Sir C. Trevelyan's public
u one i.nform bill. Ile would rather have bad that there is nothing at all in it, and then at another time . • , .
rathee over last Friday s rates. Very little bnsiness in
Majesty's dockyards had superintended the construction
S' Ch 1 T 1 h d 1 1 • h t
navy, and it was really disgraceful that the money should laws in fo
the autumn the Governor of Madras expressed his opinion conduct, yet ir ae es rove yam a men s oo in eren English barley, and rather cheaper. Other articles were
mmon with England than good laws which were to saY it is a dangerous and revolutionary Measure, this
hose vessels, and had given any opinion with respect to have been so misapplied. He was told that th t
broadly and distinctly against the imposition of those taxes, in his character to be overclouded and overshadowed by unchanged.
e s ern of the pecnliar to Ireland. That might sound like a paradox but is a course which is net verY consistent, and not very
r efficiency. ,
Princess Royal-a vessel which his noble and gallant friend the explanation would be very intelligible. If theY had'had useful. I will bring the bill forward at a time when I ancl said that in his judgment no additional taxation was one single act. He (Lord Palmerstoa) concurred with -
end C. PAGET said-I will follow the advice of my a,
EXETER-Mar 11.
ord C. Paget) kad himself commanded-on being recently laws in common with France, it was not llrel th tth ho 0 that 'man fears will have disap eared, and hon necessary, because the expenditure might be reduced within those who hoped that Sir Charles Trevelyan might in his
.t hon. friend opposite, and I will state the truth, the
y a ose
With a tolerable attendance, the business to-day was
taken to pieces, was found to have been originally con- bad laws would leb t 1 ted btl' h ' P b 'I y b able to sa ht h P •k h . the limits of the income. His hon friend wanted to know future career be useful to the public service, and do honour
le truth, and nothing but the truth-(a laugh)-with
dnewhae
toseerea , u i t ey had good laws, mem crs -en I then. eau _
what ythwe a t. ey thin s ould be
firm at the following prices :-
structed of very unsound timber. He had heard that in peculiar to Irela: urity had they that they would the proper francluse, d y think should be done. why the Government did not do wha't Sir C. Trevelyan said. to himself as well as be of advantage to his country.
'arneat, white.. 6s 9d to 7s Od I Barley.. 4s Od to 68 Od
zlatiot these gunboats, as far as it is knoivn to us. at the
There was a wonderful difference between saying and doing. (Hear, hear.) .
every case in which a sailing line-of-battle ship was now not be converted into bad ones by a tyr •cal majority ?If They will also be able to state what course they think
Ditto red 5s 3d to 5s 6d I Oats ..... .. 3s 6d to 3s 94
y. (Hear, hear.) The first duty I have to discharge being converted into a steam line-of-battla ship, the timber the house was insincere on th In tfthbl 1 d' h uld bd t d ith regard to the r distrib t' f t Before the financial measures of the Government were pre- THE FORMS OF THE HOUSE. Flour, fine, 40s to 41s ; aeconds, 38s to 39s per sack. .
a this occasion is to alla
y the anxiety which has been
IT let: zundefrl e or et lici)e
hen.e:ncoipeearnve uhr ems:its:3(i
pared, it appeared that the military expenditure of Madras, Mr. BOUVERIE said he rose to call the attention of .
CATTLE.
used in the process of conversion was unseasoned. The Ad- bill, what were the peo le ? leV l ed member for Ma: lebone
e.dn bty the apprehension that the whole of the gunboats miralty might tell them that they had no seasoned timber. put into his hand thatPmorning tre'at the total numalePearPea'af to introduce a lod er franchise. ThatYis a very fpairpfran- which had been estimated in the preceding year at less than the house to the manner in which the business was con- The attendance was good, and the market was moderately
h yal navy are rotten and unfit for service. Up
g•th t e 1 - • • £3 000 000 reached, according to a report of the accountant ducted. Last night the house, having gone into committee sulylaimedai:waluth fat stock.
Wby had they not ? (Hear.) His hon. friend the member signatures which had been appended to petitions of an "
y knin chute, and I assure him a propose will be carefully dm- ' ' '
1 pply of pork carcases, at previous rates.
e present time we have discovered that a certain number
•on im osino• a license A ,
for West Noefolk (Mr. Bentinck) pointed out to the hous eon the subject of reform was only 90,000. (Hear.) There cussed by the Govenument with all the reasons that can be of the Madras gevernment, a sum considerably exceeding of was and means, passed a resoluti p e .
Fat beef,p score, 10s6d to lb Ewes, per lb ....7id to Od
been more or less decayed, and measures either have
„, £4,000,000. Instead of the ex mull h; b efreshment houses, and that resolution having Perk do 9
the other day that there was neve •
r a sufficient quantity of were only 9,711 in favour of the noble lord's bill, and only urged for and against the proposal. But whether they win. • p 1 ure nav-ng eeen reduced duty upon r . . carcases, sto lOs 6d ' Wethers, do-. .. 8d to 01
taken or are being taken for their repair. I will state
It was exceeded by £1 500 000, and those who were respon_ been passed was, contrary to universal Practice end Preeee hhecp, Per lb. ..... Od to 71d. Fat calves, do.. ~ aid to ed
well-seaeoned timber kt' th d rd Wh th t? two (signatures) in favour of the entire s h
f b ep
.m. e ockya. s.
.y was a
c eme of the adopt that franchise. or n. ot, Ido hope the house will go
limber of those which have been repaired, but I am net
as was usua
sible fo ' ' - •hth h 'Oa t 1
r the finances of the country must be guided by facts dent, reported forthwit to e ouse wi ou , Rough fat. 44d ner lb_
S I 1 Id
ure y i con no , e said that Parliament did not vote Government. (Hear, hear.) He did not think that the seriously into a constderation of the question, and come to
esent able to give the house a correct es • te of the ex-.
._ _ .
enoustfh
fmoney. He. was fa! fro.m finding fault with the Ad- people of Ireland (who, by the bye, had petitioned more ' a conclusive decision upon it. rather than by statement. wan ... ae, e__ ___, _ s -- e --a- es' n'
of the repairs, because the accounts have not yet been mir !Ler converhmg sailneg into steam line-of-battle ships numerouely in fay,,,,,.,,e ....e....._ 4.,_ _-,
in. The noble lord the member for Cocke outh (Lord

CATTLE.
The attendance was good, and the market was moderately
supplied with fat stock.
A small supply of pork carcases, at previews rates.
Fat beef,p score, 10s6d to lb Ewes, per lb .... 'ad to Od
Pork carcases, do 9s to lOs 6d Wethers, .. 8d to 01
Sheep, per 1b...... Od to 71d Fat calves, do.. ~ sid to Od
Rough fat, Ofd per lb.