The Sun.
London, England, 1860-01-25 00:00:00

their political position. The Speech of her Majesty from
the Throne is full of topics, no doubt of no mean chara2ter,
but every man in this house knows that there is really only
one subject of which the people of this country are thinking,
and that is what will be the position of England with re-
gard to this Italian question, and whether the course we
shall pursue will be such as will at the same time redound
to our honour, and yet secure the blessings of that peace
which every year we learn more and more to value. • I in-
vite the answer of the noble lord, or the head of the Govern-
ment, to these inquiries. (Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON said—l am glad that the right
hon. gentleman has announced that on this occasion there
will be no interruption to that unanimity with which it is
so becoming that on the first night of the session this house
should return a respectful answer to the communication
from the Throne. (Hear.) I must in the first place con-
gratulate the noble lord and my hon. friend behind me on
the ability with which they have respectively moved and
seconded the Address ; and I am sure the house has
lis-
tened to them with pleasure on this the first time they have
been heard within its walls. The right hon. gentleman
(Mr. Disraeli) thinks that without going into the details of
the measure of Parliamentary Reform which we shall have
very shortly to propose to Parliament, we have been incon-
sistent at least in regard to form, inasmuch as it was made
a reproach to the late Government that in their Speech at
the opening of last session they put reform at the very tag
end, and now we have ourselves failed to put it in that pro-
minent position which the right hon. gentleman thinks it
ought to occupy. I cannot admit the justice of that re-
mark. According to practice, the first part of the Royal
Speech is devoted to foreign transactions, then comes the
address to the House of Commons in regard to the estimates
and matters of finance, and questions of internal legislation
are reserved for the third department of the Speech. On
the present occasion wo thought it fitting that the
Queen should take the earliest opportunity when she came
to the domestic portion of her Speech to express the pride
and gratification with which she accepted the offers of
voluntary military service from her subjects; but imme-
diately after that we have placed the question of Parliamen •
tary reform, which thus takes precedence of all other topics
of domestic legislation. (Hear, hear.) I am very glad to
hear the remarks of the right hon. gentleman in regard to
the distinguished bravery exhibited by our forces in that
unfortunate conflict at the mouth of the Peiho ; and I quite
agree with the right hon. gentleman that there may be as
much merit displayed, as much honour gained, and as great
credit reflected upon the country by exertions not attended
with success as by those upon which fortune smiles. It is
well said that nunquam auccessu crescit honestuni. It is not
the success of an achievement which ought to be the mea-
sure of the merit of those who were engaged in it; and
there certainly never was an occasion on which those in
command and all concerned exhibited more devotion and
bravery than in that unfortunate contest. (Hear.) As to
the commercial negotiations between this country and
France, I am happy to be able to say that yesterday a con-
vention or treaty was, I believe, signed between the two
Governments at Paris. We have not yet received the
document, and there may have been some technical infor-
mality which rendered it necessary that a fresh document
should bo signed to-day. The right hon. gentleman has
stated opinions on this point in tho abstract of which I en

tirely concur. As a general principle it is certainly not de-
sirable that a country should enter into any conventional
agreement with other countries as to her tariff and custom
duties ; on the contrary, it is most desirable that we should
keep in our own hands full discretion to legislate, from
time to time, in regard to these matters, in such a way as
the interest of the country may seem to demand. But
there was this unusual feature in the present nego-
tiations--that, owing to a peculiarity in the
French constitution and mode of legislation, we
could not obtain from the French Government that security
for future arrangements which it was essential we should
obtain, unless the transaction assumed the character cf
convention between the two oountries. It is, therefore, an
entirely exceptional arrangement, and not one which at all
implies that we have altered our opinion as to the general
principle on which commercial matters of this kind should
be governed. lam not going at present to enter into any
details as to the arrangement proposed. When ratified the
convention will be,
laid before the house, but this much I
will say now in answer to the question of the right hon.
gentleman as to what would be the function of this house
in regard to that convention, that the arrangements stipu
lated to be made on the part of her Majesty are made condi-
tional on the consent of Parliament to them. (Hear, hear.)
Unless we have the consent of both 'lenses of Parliament
we are free from any engagement that has been contracted.
I must also remark generally that, as a commercial question,
it must be for the interest of the two countries to enter into
any arrangement calculated to promote commercial inter-
course between them. No great increase in the exchange
of cemmodities can take place without giving an increased
stimulus to the productive energies of the two countries.
An increase of commerce must be an advantage to both, and
cannot be an advantage to one alone. Therefore, if we in
this country should reap any advantage from the arrange-
ments contemplated, France must participate in it also.
If, on the other hand, the French nation are to obtain ad-
vantages, it is impossible they can enjoy them without our
receiving corresponding benefits. (Hear, hear.) Taking it in
its political bearing, it must be obvious to every man, that
whereas it is for the interest of the two countries that they
should remain together in a state of friendly intercourse, it
is manifest also that the more they are connected together
by the ties of mutual interest and commercial intercourse,
the more like it is that neither will en light grounds suffer
an interruption in their political relations to each other.
(Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman has asked questions as
to our policy with respect to Italy. The right hon. gentle-
man is fully entitled, when Parliament meets after a recess,
to call upon her Majesty's Government to explain what has
been the course of their policy upon a great question, upon
which he justly says the attention, the feelings, and the
opinion of this country are more particularly concentrated
than upon any other question now pending. But I think
the right hon. gentleman need not have rested his right to
put these questions upon the grounds upon which he was
Pleased to put them. He seems to me an example of a man
reasoning rightly, but upon wrong premises. The grounds
upon which he put these questions are a certain number of
anonymous telegrams which he picked out of a number of
newspapers. " Here is a telegram," he-says, " stating that
in August-you made a proposal to France to come to a clear
understanding and agreement for mutual action in Italy.
You tell me it is anonymous. Ah 1 but I have an answer.
I asked the editor of the newspaper whether the article was
correct, and he told me it was." (No.) I cannot be mis-
taken. The right hon. gentleman said he made inquiries
whether those articles were correct, and was told they wore.
It reminds me of the Italian proverb, that you ought not to
ask an innkeeper if he has got good wine. (A laugh.) You
ought not to ask the author of an anonymous telegram
whether he acted on good authority. Of course he will tell
you he did, but the assertion is of no more value than the
paragraph to which it applies. (Hear, hear.) I admit the
right of the right hon. gentleman to make his inquiries. But
he had much better put it on his right as a member of -Par-
liament to interrogate than to found it on such flimsy and
frivolous grounds as ,these which he has used. (Cheers.) I
have no hesitation in saying that the telegram upon which he
mostly relied—viz., that some time in the month of August
this Government applied or proposed to the French Govern-
mentto enter into a specific engagement with regard to the
affairs of Italy—is:totally unfounded ; that there is no truth
whatever in that statement—(hear)—and I can also say
that at the moment at which I am speaking her Majesty's
Government is totally free from any engagement whatever
with any foreign Power upon the affairs of Italy. (Cheers.)
The right hon. gentleman admits that we were right in
consenting to enter into the congress, but he thinks that
the communication made at the end of last session and that
now made are somehow or another inconsistent, and he
wishes explanations upon that point. At the end of last
session the crown informed Parliament that overtures had
been made for the purpose of ascertaining, if conferences
were to be held, whether her Majesty would send a plenipo-
tentiary. It had not been determined that a congress or
conferences should take place, because the holding such
congress or conferences must be, and was, contingent upon
the conclusion of a definitive treaty to carry out the engage-
ments at Villafranca. At that time no such treaty had
Been concluded. All that passed was that we were told it
was the intention of the French and Austrian Governments,
whenever that treaty should be concluded, to propose a
congress to take cognisance of the treaty, and to consider
the affairs of Italy. The treaty was not concluded until
late in the autumn, and the actual invitation to join a con-
gress did not reach us until the month of November. It
was not, therefore, until then that her Majesty's Govern-
ment were able to advise the Crown to give an answer, aye
or no, whether the Crown would send a plenipotentiary.
In the intermediate time no doubt communications fre-
quently passed. There were constant communications be-
tween the two Governments. Lord Cowley came once or
twice to this country. Of course, when an ambassador
comes from a foreign court to communicate with his Go-
vernment, the communications are not confined to what
sort of weather it is at the place from which he comes.
(Laughter.) He gives all the information he possesses,
and receives instructions which can often be given ver-
bally in more detail than in despatches. When the dis-
tance is so short and the communication so easy as be-
tween Paris and London, it is exceedingly natural that,
without any particular or important convention in view,
her Majesty's Government should, from time to time, find
it desirable to have personal communication with the Am-
bassador at Paris. It is very probable that on those occa-
sions the Ambassador combined private convenience with
public duty. But no overture was received from the
French Government of the nature of that-of which the
right hon. gentleman has been informed— that is, the
French Government did not propose the separate engage-
ment which the right hon. gentleman thinks was Pro-
posed and, I believe he said, declined by her 3.l.eiteegal
Government. (Hear, hear.) No doubt, in
which elapsed between the preliminary
the actual announcement that a treaty
wasp
Govern-
and a congress was to be held Her Majesty
much clearness
ment endeavoured to ascertain, with as
ofs
was our
the French
ledge which
in.titmhaectoinio:nluadnedd
as they could, what were the
It
Majesty's Govern
dGuetvyernthm:denot
swio.th(Hreogaar? to
e Italian
Hvher affairs.
k w
eae
nwr
e)ii of the French Govern-
mentwem imghigthtacvqe
acquire em ofuc
hthe n
influence
although there
ment as to whether the proposal when it came ought to be
accepted or declined, because,shouldwere
'llia" reasons why it was undesirablewe decline to
join a congress, yot if we, had reason to think that in that
congress ere would be a wide difference of opinion be-
tween England and
.France—that we should find' our-
selves quite at variance with France on the great
question to be discussed—that knowledge would be a
considerable element in the decision as to whether we