The Sun.
London, England, 1860-04-20 00:00:00

(Continued from our first page )
bounden duty of every one to preserve harmony. That

lonic must be either a perpetual obstacle to democratic
measures or be summarily swept away, and with it the
monarchy and all that was most valuable in our ancient
institutions. (Hear.) H.e. did not say this as against the
adoption of the measure, but he thought it afforded good
grounds for having in the first instance the best possible
data and information. _ _

Earl GRANVILLE regretted that no information had
been given as to what they were to do in the committee
now proposed. He was also sorry that the noble earl
(Grey) should have deemed it necessary to rail so harshly
against American institutions ; and as to transatlantic rail-
way legislation, he believed that our early practice in a
similar direction had exhibited scarcely more satisfactory
results. He did not wish to discuss in detail a bill which
was not then before the house, and, therefore, he should

only say that the object of the Government was to go as
low with the franchise as they could without swamping
the existing constituencies. As to the returns, he main-
tained that they were substantially correct, and the main
object of the Government in consenting to go into the
.committee was to convince noble lords who were now
sceptical of their correctness. The noble earl opposite
talked of statistics, but he should like to know what
statistics had he himself in 1832, when he was one of
the most earnest advocates of the first Reform Bill. Go-
vernment went into the committee with a sincere desire
to give every possible information, but he did not think
that much importance would spring from it. He regretted
the frame of mind in which the noble earl approached the
subject, and feared that his expressions would go far to cre-
ate that prejudice against the aristocrary which he so much
deprecated. He regretted to hear the noble earl expressing
his hope that a measure from which his own party in ano-
ther place had withdrawn all opposition might be delayed
for one or perhaps two sessions, and he trusted that the
noble earl's hopes would be disappointed. On the contrary,
he believed that noble lords would see the necessity of dis-
posing of this measure whilst the working classes were
tranquil and contented, and would thus be able not to
weaken but to strengthen our institutions. He should go
into the committee to get information ; but ho protested
against the idea that the hands of the Government were to
be tied up as regarded the Reform Bill during any tine
which the committee might think proper to sit.
Earl GREY said, as to his responsibility for the
bill of 1852, it was right that he should make some
explanations. Lord John Russell made the statement
which led to the introduction of that measure, viz.,
that the time had arrived at which the bill of 1832
should be reconsidered—entirely without the know-
ledge of his colleagues that he was going to make
such a statement, and in opposition to the wishes and
opinions of most of them, including himself (Lord Grey).
He extremely deplored that the noble lord should have
made such a statement, and it was with the greatest re-
luctance that he continued a member of the Government
after the statement had been made. He made no conceal-
ment of his opinion that to disturb the question at all was
inexpedient. He never approved of Lord John Russell's
bill, but thought it was open to many objections. He knew,
too, that it stood no chance of passing, and that the Go-
vernment itself could not last. But as the chief attacks on
that Government were made on the department over which
he presided, he thought he could not forsake them at such
a moment. He therefore consented that the bill should be
brought in, which he now confessed was a generous error
on his part. As to the bill of 1832, at that time it was a
question of Reform or revolution, which was not now the
case. Great caution ought to be observed in extending poli-
tical power. The arguments by which these measures were
supported were capable of being carried further and further
till they arrived at universal suffrage. There was a large
class of people in this country who looked to their lordships
to act wisely and boldly in this matter. There were a variety
of considerations inituencing the other house from which their
lordships were free. It was believed that if the other house
were allowed to vote by ballot on this question, the bill
would be rejected by an overwhelming majority. (Hear,
hear, and laughter.) It therefore became the duty of their
lordships to consider the matter with boldness and with
fairness. In conclusion, the noble earl assured the house
that he did not move for the committee from any desire to
delay the bill when it arrived in that house.
The motion was then agreed to, and their lordships ad-
journed at half-past nine.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Bradford, Wakefield, and Leeds Railway Bill and
Widnes Gas and Water Bill were read a third time,