The Sun.
London, England, 1860-08-18 00:00:00

ment of ships, which would lead to enormous waste and ex-

travagance.

Mr. 'WARRE was understood to defend the fortifica-

tion of Dover. He now refeirel to facts. In 1797 the
French actually effected a landing with a hostile force at
Killala, on the shores of Ireland. They were certainly a
small force ; and were, by superior numbers, induced to
lay down their arms. Now, it was quite clear that some of
the expedition which sailed on that oocasion. from France
for the invasion of Ireland, escaped the vigilance of the
British fleet. He maintained, then, that the construction
of fortifications was a step in the right direction.

Sir DE LACY EVANS said for his part he could not,
looking at the present unsettled state of Europe, say what
might or might not be the state of their affairs and posi-
tion this time twelve months. The question was not one of
pounds, shillings, and pence, but of national honour and
security. With respect to Dover, he must remark to hon.
gentlemen who seemed not to attach much importance to the
strengthening of that position, that it was a very important
one, and would be a position of great importance in the
hands of the French if they could avail themselves of it.
He could not but express his surprise that the heights of
Dover had not been properly fortified long before this.
He, however, heard that there was to be a tower of great
height to be constructed at the head of the pier, with em-
brasures for 100 guns. Now, it was all very desirable to
be prepared to give an invading enemy a warm reception ;
but in his opinion 40 or 50 guns, and a garrison would be
amply sufficient for that purpose. With regard to the for-
tifications of Portsdown Hill, commanding Portsmouth, he
understood that it was to be armed with 226 guns. Now,
they were not sure if the French were to land, that they
would be able to hold the position; and in his humble
opinion, he would suggest that a few mortars and move-
able 12-pounders would be far more effective on the
heights. With respect to their troops, he did not think
they were sufficiently employed, and he was of opinion
that if the troops in the garrison of Portsmouth
were employed upon the engineering construction
of the fortifications, it would prove beneficial to the men,
and a saving of expenditure to the country.
Colonel DICKSON begged respectfully to differ from the
hon. and gallant general, in the opinion he had expressed
in reference to what he considered the inactive condition of
the garrison of Portsmouth. The gallant general was in
that opinion quite mistaken. The case was otherwise, and
the garrison of Portsmouth, so far from not being actively
employed, had actually only three nights a-week in bed.
After a few words from Mr. DODSON, in relation to the
Armstrong gun and the Martello Towers, the purport of
which did not reach the gallery,
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said that two places to be
fortified, and whiel. wore mentioned in the vote, were Har-
wich, in Essex, and Newhaven, in Sussex, and with re-
gard to them and other places mentioned in the vote, Sir
John Burgoyne said the works were of great consequence.
The sum to be voted for them was £5,000, and the whole
vote was £lO,OOO. Nothing, it would be admitted, could be
more unwise than to leave works of the description in
question in a weak state, and what was doing was to
strengthen their positions. The gallant member for Chat-
ham asked why they did not complete the works ; and he
agreed with him that it was desirable to do so; but the
works in question were supplemental works to those already
completed, and would be finished in a couple of years ;
otherwise it would take them five and twenty years to com-
plete the whole. He had arranged that there should be a
working committee to draw up plans, and when done they
would be submitted to experienced officers. Colonel
Harness was one of those who was appointed to examine
the plans. He assured the committee that everything
would be done in the most efficient manner. He was
anxious to have the most satisfactory system of
checks and tests. He was indebted to the hon. and
gallant officer the member for Westminster, for the sugges-
tions he had made in relation to Portsdown Hill. On that
point he had heard that opinion before, and that the guns
to be employed should be of a light and moveable descrip-
tion. Gosport and Portland were of the places to be strength-
ened. None of the works were exactly new, and votes for
them had already been sanctioned by Parliament.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the proposed expenditure
as vast and unnecessary.
The vote was agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to :
£277,547 for education and scientific branches.
£25,390, rewards for military services.
£75,860, pay of general officers.
£492,357, pay of reduced officers.
£184,523, widows' pensions and compensation allow-
ances.
£14,123, pensions and allowances to wounded officers.
A vote of £136,837 for superannuation allowances having
been proposed,
Mr. AYRTON observed that the Ecclesiastical Commis-
sioners were not justified in giving the Dean of York £2,000
a-year. The result was, that this gentleman was to
have a retrospective right to this sum from the death of his
predecessor. (Hear, hear.) It was the duty of the commit
tee to express an opinion with respect to this matter.
Mr. WILLIAMS expressed his surprise that the Go-
vernment should have brought forward this vote.
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that if it was intended to censure
the commissioners for raising the stipend of the Dean of
York a specific motion ought to have been made on the
subject. He must say that the faith of Parliament was
pledged to the vote before the Committee for the Ecclesias-
tical Commissions, and that was the reason why the vote
was brought forward.
After a short discussion, the house divided, when there
appeared—

For the vote ...
Against it
Majority — 1
The vote was then agreed to ; as was also a vote of
£17,070 to pay the salaries of the Charity Commissioners
in England and Wales.
The next vote proposed was the sum of £25,480 to com-
plete the sum of £37,000 for temporary commissions.
Mr. E. JAMES said he should move to reduce the vote
by £777.
After a few words by the ATTORNEY-GENERAL,
Mr. WYLD took exception to a sum of £363 7s. ld. for
the surveys and plans prepared at the Ordnance Survey
Office, Southampton.
Mr. S. HERBERT explained the grounds upon which
the item of expense was incurred, and said he did not think
it by any means overpayment for the work done.
Mr. WYLD objected to the officers and men being with-
drawn from ether surveys and placed in the votes in the
manner described.
Mr. E. JAMES, after some observations by Mr. Mon-
sell and by Mr. Mellor, who :hoped ho would withdraw his
amendment, expressed his surprise at the Attorney-General
charging him with the imputation of ignorance of the sub-
ject on which he spoke. He could, however, bear that taunt,
corning as it did from her Majesty's Attorney-General—
(laughter)—and he believed that he quite as well under-
stood the subjects which he spoke upon as the hon. and
learned gentleman did. Ho begged, in conclusion, to with-
draw his amendment.
The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes were also agreed to
128,299 to defray the expenses of the Commissioners un-
der the Patent Law Amendment Act.
£12,998 for the Fisheries Board in Scotland.
£2,000 for the Board of Manufactures to discharge the
equivalents under the Treaty of Union.
£5,000 for:,Highland roads and bridges.
£9OO for the publication of the ancient laws and institu-
tions of Ireland.
£58,700 for the Merchant Seaman Fund.
£20,000 for distressed seamen abroad.
£4,000 for the quarantine service; and
£50,000 for dues on foreign ships.
It was moved that a grant of £25,000 be made for a
bounty on slaves, &c.
Mr. VANCE moved that the Chairman do report pro..
gross.

Lord PALMERSTON hoped the motion would not be
pressed.
Lord C. HAMILTON supported the motion,
Tho CHAIRMAN then reported progress.
The votes for the British Museum and the Kensington
Museum were fixed for to-morrow.
Mr. CONINGHAM protested against their being taken
before Monday, as so many members would be out of town
on Saturday. •
METROPOLITAN POLICE FORCE (DOCKYARDS)

(No. 2) BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
NAVAL DISCIPLINE BILL.

On the motion for the second reading of this bill,
/Ir. WILLIAMS opposed the bill, and wanted, before
he was asked to vote upon it, to read the bill and to hear
the noble lord's explanations on the subject. He would
not object to taking it tomorrow.
Mr. LINDSAY hoped they would take the second read-
_

int; then, as there was no objection to the principles of the
bill. ma 111 committee would be the fittest time to discuss

the details.
to.
The second reading wag then
PARTY EMBLEMS (IRELAND) BILL,.
On the motion for going into committee on this bill,
Mr. P. HENNESSY moved as an amendment that the
Lill should go into committee on that day three months.
Mr. CARDWELL said that the house had assented to
the bill by a considerable majority, and be therefore hoped
the house would at once go into committee.
The house then divided, when there appeared—
For ping into COMMitt00,
Against it „ „ , 22

I . .
Majority for going into committee.... —3l
The house then went into committee, when, on the
motion of Mr. CARDWELL,
The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the Douse re-
sumed,
The ropciq of supply was brought up and received.
EAST INDIA LOAN BILL.
This bill - passed through committee.
The Cm ) ugal Rights (Scotland) Bill was read a third
time. The Attc Irneys and Solicitors, Proctors, &c., Bill was
read a thirr'L time.
The otl lei' orders of the day were disposed of, and the
house adj ,oun Ned at two o'clock.