The Sun.
London, England, 1860-07-25 00:00:00

commission. This is obviously the most prudent course to

adopt. We have already two plans before us. The result of

a commission may be to devise some third plan combining
the advantages, while getting rid of the difficulties, of both.

I am fortified in this view by the fact that I am only asking

the Government to grant now in the case of the navy what
has once before been granted for the navy, and what has
upon several occasions been granted for the army. In 1840
the Duke of Wellington was the honoured president of a
commission which sat to investigate this very question of
promotion and retirement with respect to both services. I
shall presently advert further to the results of that com-
mission, but let me also remind the house that in 1854 a
commission was appointed to consider the subject of promo-
tion and retirement in the army. The form of that commis-
sion shows haw very closely analogous are the two cases;
the grounds for an inquiry are precisely the same. But I
do not rest my motion upon this question of promotion and
retirement. I wish, likewise, to repeat to' the house what
I stated on a former occasion, that at the present moment
there is scarcely one class of officers in the royal navy who
are not more or less in a state of discontent with their posi-
tion. In the report of the Wellington commission of 1840
I find the following passage :

-
"Carefully weighing the urgent reasons that exist for a
rigidly economical administration of the public revenues on
the one hand, and on the other the no less imperative ne-
cesbity of keeping the limited naval establishment em-
ployed in time of peace, energetic and therefore useful, con-
tented and therefore efficient, we have no hesitation in
earnestly addressing our unanimous recommendation to
your Majesty, that there should be a considerable increase in
the rates of sea pay allowed to navy lieutenants."
That commission also took into consideration the pay and
position of captains, and I find in the report a statement
which I ventured to make the other day, that the position
of captains with respect to pay is eminently unsatisfactory
and unjust to that most important class of officers. The
report further alludes, as I did on a former evening, to the
great charges which fall upon captains from the duties of

hospitality which devolve upon them in the command of
their ships, and it recommends that certain articles of outfil

which captains had been compelled to provide for themselves
should be provided at the public cost, the officers paying a

percentage on the value. That recommendation was adopted,
and hence the system which has since prevailed in this
respect; but with regard to the pay of captains, and with
regard likewise to many other particulars connected with
the navy, the state of the profession twenty years ago was
very different from what it is now. At that time the pay
of captains was on a footing which, in my opinion, was far
more just and rational than at the present moment. Cap-
tains were then divided into three classes as regazded half-

pay, in the same way as they are now divided into three
classes as regards full pay, according to seniority; but their
full pay, which now turns upon seniority, then turned upon
the rate of the ships which they commanded, and therefore
upon the expenses which they were obliged to incur. There
were then six classes of ships. A captain in command of a
sixth rate received £3OO a-year, while a captain in command
of a first rate received as much as £BOO. The whole of
that is now changed, and the pay of a captain no longer
bears any relation to the class of his ship, and therefore to
the expenses which he is obliged to incur. I consider this
question of the pay of captains to be one of the branches of
this subject which most imperatively requires attention. In

former debate I mentioned the fact that in two instances
officers of great ability refused commands because they
could not afford to accept them. It is disgraceful that
such a state of things should exist. Perhaps the
house will permit me to read brief extracts from
letters which I have received in consequence of what
I then stated from officers of high distinction, and now
on full pay on board her Majesty's ships. I shall not men-
tion the names of the writers, but shall be happy to give
them to the noble lord the Secretary to the Admiralty, or
to any hon. member who may express a wish to have them.
The first letter comes from an officer who is now an admi-
ral and on full pay. He entirely concurs in my view of the
retirement question, and alluding to what I stated on a
former occasion about the insufficiency of a captain's pay,
he states that between his attaining the rank of commander
and his attaining his flag, he had no less than seven com-
mands. He says :
" I question if £4,000 would repay me for what all my
ships cost me from the day I was made a commander until
I got my flag, and I had seven different fresh commands."
The writer of this letter would be regarded by the officers of
the navy generally as a fortunate man ; and, without refe-
rence to his interest or his position, I doubt whether the
profession would not say he is the most brilliant and best
officer we have. He had what is usually called the good
luck to obtain seven commands between his come:lender's
rank and his flag. How little do the profession suppose that
these advantages, as they are termed, have been gained at a
cost to his own pocket of £4,0001 The next letter comes
from an officer also of high distinction, now commanding
one of our blockships. He writes in these terms :
" I have dipped heavily into my small private means to
arrive at and keep up my position, and, unless there were a
naval war, when I would live on bare ship's allowance
rather than not serve, I could not afford to take a more
active command than that I at present hold from the feeling
t hat I should be unable to support my position as it ought
to be maintained in the service afloat, and at the same time
du justice to my children; and I know of many officers who
are similarly circumstanced."
I shall now read a letter from an officer whois not at pre-
sent on full pay, but who was so a very short time ago, be-
cause I myself appointed him to a ship. He writes :
" In the first place, as you clearly pointed out, on a cap-
tain commissioning a ship he cannot prepare himself for sea
to proceed to a foreign station under a sum varying from
£3OO to .L-100, depending on the class of ship he is appointed
to and the station he is ordered to; and how is an officer
dependant on the service to obtain this sum except by bor-
rowing, and what prospect has he of repaying it with in-
terest at the end of his commission, when hie full pay is
barely sufficient to provide common necessaries for himself,
to say nothing of having to entertain his officers occasion-
ally at his table ? An officer placed in such circumstances
is prevented from being as courteous as he is enjoined to
be by policy, and even by the rules of the service, to foreign
officers whom he is constantly meeting ; he cannot even re-
turn the civilities which they show him. This distressing
and undignified position I have personally experienced in
the ship you gave me a commission to. . . At this time
an American commodore and other foreign ships were at
anchor in the bay, when, of course, the usual civilities of
calling, &c., were exchanged, and I was frequently invited
to dine on oard one or other of these ships, when I was at
once placed in the painful and perplexing position of accept-
ing these invitations without the means of returning them
or refusing them, and feeling ashamed to state the plain
reason that my country did not pay me sufficiently to en-
able me to return their hospitality. . . This is the posi-
tion every captain or commander commanding a ship is
more or less subject to on receiving an appointment—a
position which I feel confident the House of Commons will
never permit the captains of the English navy to be placed
in when it is fairly pointed out to them—and is a complete
corroboration of your statement in the house."
Let me read one more letter from an officer who a year ago
was on full pay as a commander. He writes :
" I can speak from experience as to the pay of a com-
mander and a lieutenant in command, having served 41
years in the former and nearly two years in the latter rank ;
and I am quite sure, unless an officer has some private in-
come, a command is a source of expense, and not of etnoln-
meat."

I referred on a former evening to the difference between the
French service and ours in this respect. France does not
allow her officers to be exposed to these painful difficulties
and trials. In the same letter I have a brief statement of
the rates of pay in the two services. A. French lieutenant in
command receives 15f. a day as table money, which is equal
to 12s. 6d., and his daily pay is 7s. ; total, 19s. 6d. An
English lieutenant receives, daily pay, I Is. ; light money,
Is. ; value of rations, 10d. ; total, 12s. 10d., as against 19s.
6d. A capitaine de frigate receives, daily pay, 9s. sd. ;
table money, 16s. ; total, £1 ss. sd. An English corn-
mender receives, daily, 16s. 6d. ; light money and rations,
Is. 10d. ; total, 18s. 4d., as against £lss. sd. I state these
facts in confirmation of what I have already mentioned,
and to show the great difference which prevails between
the two services, and the great hardship inflicted on the
English commanders or lieutenants in command, who are
called on to discharge their duties to their country at a posi-
tive loss to themselves. (Hear, hear.) I will next advert
to the case of the masters. I remember that last year my
noble friend, soon after assuming his present office, made a
charge against me on the ground that I had not dealt with
the masters. Well, my answer is that my noble friend was
one of those who prevented me, because I was turned out of
office, and was consequently unatle to go on with what I
began. (Hear, hear.) Let me tell my noble friend that
I presume to think that if I had not been turned out of
office I should have dealt with the masters rather better
than he has done. Ido not charge the present Board of
Admiralty with doing nothing in regard to the masters,
because it has dealt with them, but in such an un-
satisfactory way that the complaints are not removed.
Now, if 1 had dealt with the case of the masters at all, I
think I should have dealt with it in a manner to quiet their
complaints. I have here a letter from a well-known master
in one of our line-of-battle ships, and he states :
"One ill effect which the late circular must produce is
the desire to avoid the regular line of service in men-of-
war, and get into small tenders, *reships, &c., —appoint-
ntents which are renal more permanent and better paid.
These large' ships—especially flagships—are to be avoided
in a pecuniary point of view. Could I exchange into the
smallest possible vessel bearing a master, and having charge
of stores, my pay would be greatly increased."
I have another letter, but I will not trouble the house with
.e
extracts from it. The substance of the statement is that
changes made by the Board of Admiralty with respect
to the ma,,
tvhi
ce
em
is en tors are not only unsatisfactory to the masters
lvthe% but are very prejudicial to her Majesty's respect,ser-
that in consequence of these changes
thers is a n increased inducement to enter the service as
masters' assistants, but there is no proportionate induce-
ment to remain in he
menenteringaszvice. Thus you have a number of
young
assistants, taking the benefit
of the education and t
raZ,igiNvriiirn the navy, and then leaving
for the merchant service e they get on better than if
they had remained in the ill- Lulled service of the navy.
twithb which the Admiralty
Another branch of the pproafyniessmiroen
to satisfy thaw,
.the
dealt was that of the
Board did not
deal with them in a way
all these cases I do not commit myself u, thWeith respect to
express
any opinion as to whether these complaints are ion
of
lvefounded. I only say that, if they are not well or M-
il-founded
let them, after investigation, be exposed and disregarded
but if they are well-founded, then let not a feeling of jasi
discontent be cherished in the Queen's service. "With
respect to the paymasters, I know very well that the higher
classes are in receipt of considerable pay as compared with
some other officers in the navy; but the complaint they