The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-01 00:00:00

good qualities, that he was extremely industrious and pos-
sessed many attainments, but that unfortunately those attain-
ments were fearfully neutralised by a total unconsciousness of
his own incompetence and by a most prodigious opinion of
himself—(laughter)—and I requested hisaordship, whenever
he had any further orders of importance, to send them to me
by same other officer. This was a serious letter to write re-
garding an officer of that rank. I have in my hands the an-
swer of Lord Raglan. If Col. Gordon had reported to me
accurately the order he was desired to communicate, I am
sure a man of high honour like Lord Raglan would have told
me that no fault was to be imputed to the officer he had so
employed. But no such thing. Lord Raglan does not in the
slightest degree exonerate Col. Gordon. I will only read the
passage in his letter referring to this particular case :—" My
dear General, —Your letter has just been delivered to me, for
which I am much obliged to you. I fear there has been some
misconception in this matter. I had no idea of your under-
taking any serious operation. My object was merely that you
should e iuse some interruption to be given to the convoy if
convoy there had been, which it is evident there was not."
(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Well, now, I ask the house if,
after such an inculpation proceeding from me and I challenge
the friends of Col. Gordon to search among Lord Raglan's
papers for the letter lam speaking of—l ask the house whe-
ther it is possible to doubt that Col. Gordon on this occasion
made a serious mistake? There was, too, another small
affair which led me to think that Col. Gordon, in spite of his
attainments, by no means possessed that judgment and dis-
eretion which the Government ought to have been assured he
possessed before they placed him in so responsible a position.
What I regret to perceive is that this is taken up as a per-
sonal question. Such unfortunately in too many similar cases
is the practice of this house—as if the whole matter to be
considered on this occasion is, whether the conduct of Colonel
This, or Major-General That, or Mr. Commissary the Other
has or has not been judicious. Now, Sir, I, who know some-
thing of those matters, think there are greater interests at
stake and weightier considerations involved in this question.
(Cheers.) It bears upon the death of manythousands ofgal-
lent solders, and I can assure the house that, though my
physical health gave way, and perhaps would have given way
in any case from my not being sufficiently young to bear all
the fatigues to which my position exposed me, yet my sorrow
at seeing the blind and inconsiderate conduct which was being
adopted frequently disturbed that repose which might other-
wise have refreshed and restored me. In spite, however, of
all this we are told that we must not inquire into this matter
and that we are to leave other armies under similar circum-
stances to be exposed to similar evils. I believe 10,000 or
11,000 men are said to have died out of our small number,
and if you aid to these the number invalided and sent into
the hospital what a state of things it will disclose. Surely
such facts ought to be inquired into most amply and publicly,
yet it appears to me tobe very evident, from the concealments
attemptel by the Government, that no such inquiry will take
place unless- the public-continue to insist up n it. Whenever
a substantive motion is brought forward upon this subject 1
shall think it my solemn duty to go into the case as far as my
humble abilities will allow me. In the meantime I must say
that the conduct of the hon. gentleman the Under-Secre-
tary of State for War, as the representative of the
Government, as well as the conduct of the noble lord
the War Minister, towards these commissioners is the most
ungrateful and unjust that I ever hoard of. (Cheers.) About
a week ago I was listening in another place to a debate in the
course of which som . very pertinent and important questions
were put to the War Minister by Lord Derby. The War Mi-
nister made a very plausiblereply, with all that pleasing self-
complacency which pervades his countenance when he speaks
—(alaugh)— observing that he was the last man in the world
to wish for additional patronage. Why, I could tell as much
about the nepotism in the War Department as in any other
department, I am told that one of the clothing officers, who
have very handsome salaries on this account, is a nephew of
the noble lord, and not a fe . v other appointments have fallen,
I believe, to Maules and Ramsays. I have heard—the story
was current at the time in the Crimea, and I have heard it a
hundred times—a very good specimen, illustrative of the ex-
cessive delicacy of the noble lord with regard to the exercise
of patronage. 'When the noble lord communicated to Gen,
Simpson that he was to have the command of the army the
telegraphic despatch ran to this effect :—" Lord Panmure to
General Simpson. General Simpson is appointed to com-
mand the army. Take care of Dowb." (Laughter.) Now,
General Simpson is a in lest man, and I think nobody has a
right to blame him. (Hear, bear.) He has been one of the
most unlucky warriors I have heard of, and I wish to heaven
he had never been placed as he was, but I do not blame him,
because he was forced to it. (Hear.) Can anything, how-
ever, be more egregious en the part of a War Minister than
to force upon au old general a situation of such vast impor-
tance requiting the greatest pose ble energy and physical
powers ? (Hear.) The poor general officer did not wish to
have the command, but Lord Papmure insisted upon it that
lie was a man of energy and resolution, and quite competent to
discharge the duties devolving upon the Commander of the
Forces at the seat of war. Well, as I was saying, together with
the first news of his appointment came the strange addendum,
" Take care of Dowb," Such incomprehensible message dis-
tracted poor Gen. Simpson's mind, and made it more obtuse
than it naturally was (A laugh.) What could " Taking care
of Dowb" mean ? (Laughter.) " Perhaps," said the gene-
ral, " it is some outpost or other"--(laughter)—because I am
afraid poor General eimpson was not as conversant with the
exterior defences of as extended line as a younger man would
have been. The consequence was that in the usual way an
answer was sent by the telegraph—an instrument to the ope-
ration of which I wish to God an end were at once put, for
it has performed some of the most extraordinary antics that
can be conceived—and that answer was, " General Simpson
to Lord Panmure,—Repeat the message;" which is the
u,ual way of saying " I don't understand what you. mean."
Another message then arrived, an l the word " Dowb" was
extended to " Dowbiggin," the name of a relative of the
noble lord ; and then the mystery was explained and the
message made clear and manifest, (" Hear," and a laugh.)
Now, the hon, gentleman the Under-Secretary for War, in
the oracular statement with which he has this evening
favoured us—and I must say that when he deals with mili-
tary topics he does assume a degree of oracularity which I,
notwithstanding my service hi the army of nearly 50 years'
duration, would not venture to affect —(hear, hear)—has en-
deavoured to make us understand that the present Govern-
ment are unexampled judges of military affairs, and therefore
I feel myself called upon to make a few observations on the
subject. (Hear, hear.) As regards the tel-graph, I stay
Say, in passing, that whoa the estimates are, introduced I
sincerely trust that it will be found to be like the boots of
last year, omitted altogether. (A laugh.)
Mr. MONSELL—No, it will be included.
Sir DE LACY EVANS—WeII, I am sorry for it, for it has
caused a great many blunders. Let me just mention to the
house a circumstance which I have been infonned of upon
what I believe to be very good authority. The house is,
of course, aware that a Turkish Contingent was formed
under the command of General Vivian. Now, I have
watched the progress of that Contingent with great inte-
rest, for I have a very high opinion of General Vivian, and
I was very anxious to see formed in Turkey the nucleus of
a regular army well officered, and all the accounts which
I have heard of that contingent have confirmed the partiality
with which I have always regarded it ; but I must sey that
the favourable progess which it has made is not to be attri-
buted to the- Minister for War, but has taken place in spite of
him. Now, the house has, I dai esay, heard that that con-
tingent has been ordered to a variety of places by our great
War Minister. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) At first they
were stationed on the Bosphorus, and near the Dardanelles
was a body of irregular cavalry under General Beatson, with
Bashi-Bazouks, who were certain to get up quarrels and p'ay
all kinds of antics if nothing were given them to do, and it
was clear, therefore, that they ought to be sent as quickly as
possible to the scene of action. This, however, was not done,
but it was determined at last to move them, and I have it
upon very good authority that in the course of, I believe, six
weeks, about nine different destinations were telegraphed by
the War Department to that unfortunate contingent. One
day an order arrived that it was instantly to proceed to
Shumla, and Commissariat officers were sent to make the
necessary preparations. In about two days, I think, another
order arrived that they were not to go to Shumla, but to
Eupatoria, and there also Commissariat officers were des-
patched. Then came au order that they were to go to Varna,
then to Kertch, and all these varied destinations were as-
signed to the contingent by that great personage at the War-
office, that second Carnet— my Lord Carnat, in fact, ("Hear,
hear," and laughter.) Is not such a state of things most
pitiful and deplorable? (Hear, hear.) Then, again, the
Dragoons ordered to Kertch found that the country about
Kertch was net adapted for the cavalry at all, and, conse-
quently, had to return to Balaklava, the horses, meanwhile,
suffering most severely, and it being found necessary to
throw many of them overboard ; but when they arrived they
were not allowed to disembark, but were informed that they
must go back to the Bosphorus, and so for 29 days, for no
purpose whatever, those horses were kept on board ship.
That, sir, is a specimen of the manner in which the War
Department conduct their business. (Loud cries of " Hear,"
There is another subject to which I wish for a mo-
ment to refer, although I wish that the initative had been
by taken hon. gentlemen on the other side of the house. An
lion. and learned gentleman on that side of the house (Mr.
Whiteside) has given notice of his intention to provoke a dis-
cussion upon the circumstances which led to the fall of Kars,
But, as the Opposition display so much forbearance towards
her Majesty's Government—(hear)—I do not know whether
that discussion will be brought on or not, and will therefore
make a passing allusion to that subject now. The noble lord
at the head of the Goverment did me the honour, about the
9th or 10th of Aug., of desiring me to wait upon him in or-
der to give him some expression of my opinion as regarded
the army in the East, and of course it was my dety to fulfil
the request of the noble lord. I must now remind the noble
lord that three months and a-half before the fall of Kars, on
the occasion to which 1 am referring, I pointed out to him
the great anxiety which I felt for the danger in which that
city was left. I will not relate what else took place upon
that occasion, but I will only say that the noble lord did not
appear to me to be as firmly impressed with the importance
of the subject as I was myself. Kars was blockaded for sor
6 months, and yet no assistance was sent to that gar-
rison, and it fell, ito not hesitate to say that that disgrace-
ful and disheartening circumstance is to be attributed to the
management of the War Department. An attempt has been
made to throw the blame upon Lord Stratford de Redcliffe—
an old diplomatist, and the War Department appear to have
thought that he ought to be perfectly conversant with the
carrying on great military operations ; but I say that Lord
Stratford de Redcliffe did not accept the office of Minister for
War—and I also say that all military operations in which we
have taken or could have taken part ought to be most care-
fully and vigilantly watched and directed by the War Depart-
ment of her Majesty's Government. (Hear.) Had any at-
tempt been made to relieve Kars, the Turkish army would
have afforded you most willingly all the assistance
which it was in its power to afford. You were masters of the
Black Sea, and had ample means for sending troops to any
part ; but yet not the slightest assistance was given to that
garrison. This is a very incidental method of referring to the
subject, hut I have been led to make this remark by the lau-
dation passed upon the War Department by the hon. gentle)
man. Let me remind the house of what happened a few
nLiogrhatspbearcbl;, said,inan o ther place. The noble lord at the head of
the War Department, In reply to a question -put to him by
" Sea what a vast superiority there is in
the material state of the army in the present year as compared
with last year." Now, I think that in making that statement
the noble lord was treating his former friends rather harshly.
aThme, eaffnedetwo hfatit,a ichh fact, was
Iw as
havet,o effectedsay , ‘'
. for,S.;4! wli a ta nicewhile
ho
mmane
nI.
tinned the change which had. been effected, he
carefully omit-
ted saying how it had been brought about. (Hoar.) I shall
it has
uot follow that example, and I now most distinctly say that
been mainly brought abeehlhtiseabruy.i)gthhtlo
bs
dee
eo
nC
noi
instructed
tmr
sayli
lascti
ee
that
dnheatrots
laniond.dgisegnratleceue.an
(hHaseart,
depreciate
Mr. Filder should ho made a scapegoat of. He was av ry ac-
tive and diligent man, but if none of the persons who
ere
communication with him knew what they were about, bow
could a commissary-general be expected to understand every thing ? I say, however, that the commissioners conferred a. benefit by explaining t ) the Government that there was an
abler man in the Commissariat Department out there than
Mr. Filder: Who was it also that caused fresh provisions to
be sent for along the various coasts of the Black Sea and the
Bosphorus? Why, the commissioners. (Hear.) There were
1,500 miles of coast along the Black Sea and upwards of 1.000
along the Bosphorus, covered with cattle and provisions ;
there never was an army in the world that had such vastmeans
of transport at its command ; we had unlimited command
of the sea, and an enormous amount of vessels at our dis-
posal, and, although these things were known, it was the

commissioners who have been disparaged to-night, who first
convincedlthe Goiernment of the facts. I speak, therefore,
of the commissioners with gratitude, because of the material
benefits which they conferred upon the troops. (Cheers.) I
fear that they are in a very perilous position ; at least, I will
not sly that, for, although they have incurred the displeasure
of the Government, they are men of too much independence
to care for it. (Cheers.) The hon. gentleman has not been
content to pass the commissioners by this evening without
notice, as was done a few nights since by the noble lord ; but
he has ventured to impugn oven the veracity of those gentle-
men. (Hear.) Sir, Ido not regret the absurdity of which
the Government have been guilty in publishing the reports of
those commissioners. They first publish the reports, thereby
Making known to the world that they approve of them; and
they then come down and say, " We are not sure that those
reports are correct, and therefore we will have another com-
mission." They do not stop there even, but they do their best
to disparage and impugn the veracity of the commissioners.
I rejoice that the Government have committed the gross blun-
der, injustice, and inconsistency that they have upon this oc-
casion, by publishing these reports ; because, independently
of the proceedings of the commissioners having saved the lives
of some thousands during the last six or eight months, and
having immensely contributed to the efficiency of the troops,
the reports of the commissioners and the evidence with which
they are accompanied will remain on record as a menace to
incompetence and to Governments who may be willing to
plow favourites instead of competent men in high stations,
and will point out to the staff, commissariat, and military of
other armies, and perhaps of other ages, what ought to be
done to protect the lives and health of an army in the field.
(The gallant general was warmly applauded on resuming his
seat.)
Mr. GORDON would not have addressed the house on
that occasion, but the remarks of the hon. and gallant
general upon a gallant relation of his really left him no
choice. He had listened to those remarks with some sur-
prise, as well as with much pain ; because he knew that his
gallant relative had always felt great pride in the good
opinion which he believed the gallant general entertained of
him. (Hear, hear.) He had heard Colonel Gordon say that
it was a proud moment for him when a veteran officer like
the gallant general selected him after the battle of the Alma,
when the Quartermaster-General of his division had been
temporarily disabled by a-wound—selected him from another
division and another service (for be was then in the Adju-
tant-General's department), to fulfil the duties of Quarter-
master-General of his division. (Hear, hear.) It was true
that that appointment did not take effect, because Colonel
Gordon had been appointed the day before to a situation on
the staff of the Quartermaster-General of the. Crimean army.
He (Mr. Gordon) felt certain, however, ho would hear with
much pain that the gallant general had seen reason to change
the opinion which he believed ho had once held of him.
(Hear, hear.) The gallant general's censure of Colonel Gor-
don had taken the form of several charges. He said in the
first instance that Colonel Gordon had shown a disposition in
his evidence to shift the blame from his own shoulders to
the shoulders of other persons—to get rid of all the responsi-
bility and to throw it upon others. Ho (Mr. Gordon) was
happy to be able to state that that was not the opinion of
the commissioners themselves ; and, in proof of that, he
would read an extract of a letter which his gallant relative
had received from Sir John M'Neil only a few days before.
" Greater candour," said Sir John, "greater care to avoid
asserting anything too much,- and greater readiness to furnish
every information in your power, it was impossible, I think,
for any man to have shown "Theis is so strongly my impres-
sion, that I have frequently spoken of it, as well as of the
excellent arrangements of your office, which enabled you at
once to refer to any point on which information was required."
(Hear, hear.) That was Sir John M'Neil's opinion—an
opinion which would no doubt be considered as entitled to
at least as much weight as that of the gallant general.
(Cheers.) The most serious charge of the gallant lecinber,
however, was one of a very grave character indeed. Ito had,
informed the house, with considerable detail and at some
length, of a conversation which he had had with Col. Gordon
when the gallant colonel was the bearer to him of. a certain
order from Lord Raglan. The gallant general had repeated
that conversation in order to ground upon it a very serious
charge of misconception of orders and of misconduct—for he
(Mr. Gordon) thought it deserved no less a name. (Hear.)
He (the hon. member) was not himself a military man, and
his gallant relative was unto tunately not a member of that
house. (Cheers.) He cou:d not pretend at that moment to
enter into any details of the transaction, but he thought there
were many in that house who would agree with him iu think-
ing that a grave charge of that kind ought not to have been
brought forward without some notice being given to Colonel
Gordon. (Loud cheers.) If Colonel Gordon's conduct had
indeed been such as the gallant general had described, it was
his (Sir De L. Evans's) duty either to have taken notice of it
at the time, or to have held his peace about it afterwards.
(Cheers.) Certainly the gallant general ought not to come
down to the house with a story which there were no means
to refute on the instant, although he supposed his gallant re-.
lative would be prepared at the proper time to furnish a satis-
factory explanation. The hon. and (pliant general might
perhaps say that he hail been provoked by the speech of the
hon. gentleman the Under Se.cretarysfor War; but he was
afraid, from what had fallen from the gallant gentleman, that
he had anticipated some reference to Col, Gordon. The only
document he had read was a letter from the late Lord Raglan.
Nil the gallant general always carry that letter about him ?
(Cheers.) The gallant general also stated that Colonel
Gordon had made an inaccurate statement with regard to
knapsacks; but the gallant gentleman would find that there
was evidence, in the shape of a memorandum, with regard
to the wishes of the generals of divisions onthat subject.
There was only one other part of the hon. and gallant
gentleman's speech to which he would now refer. The
gallant general more than once stated that Colonel Gordon
was a favourite of the court, and alluded to his courtier-
like spirit. Now he (Mr. Gordon) must deny that his gallant
relative had at all owed his promotion to court favour. Col.
Gordon was not a soldier who had merely attended at court.
He had been employed on active service for many years. He
was iu Canada during the rebellion in 1843, and he had been
engaged iu arduous professional duties, and not in duties of a
merely regimental character, since that time, He had re-
ceived the highest certificates of scientific skill, and he
trusted, therefore, that the house would not believe that his
relative had owed his promotion to mere court favour. In
conclusion, he (Mr. Gordon) would venture to make an
earnest appeal on behalf, not only of hie relative, but of the
otner °incurs that were about to be summoned before the
count of inquiry. He would appeal to them in the strongest
language against the injustice of prejuding this question, by
going further into matters of detail, or by discussing fur-
ther the pros and cons of a question not then before the house.
(Cheers.) Those gallant officers had already difficulties enough
to contend with. They had enough to contend with in the
natural desire of the public b find out some persons who
should be responsible for what had occurred, and in the ad-
verse articles of that great organ of public opinion the cen-
sure of which the bravest of them would be unwilling to face.
(Oh, and cheers.) Ho would appeal, therefore, to the
sense of justice and honour, not only of the house as a body,
but of individual members, not further to prejudice the ques-
tion, as they must do if they attempted to f,;o further into a
discussion for which that was neither the proper time ner the
proper place.
Sir DE L. EVANS (in explanation) stated that, after the
battle of the Alma, Major Vaux came to him and said, " My
cousin wishes to occupy the vacancy which has occurred
through your quartermaster being disabled :—have you any
objection 1" He (Sir De L. Evans) replied that he had not,
but there had certainly been no offer on his part to Colonel
Gordon. (Order.) What he wished to say further was some-
thing to the credit of Col. Gordon. He wished to express his
conviction of Col. Gordon's merits and his attainments ; but
he did not wish to see him in a responsible situation,
Mr. GLADSTONE regretted the latitude that bad been
given to the debate. It was just to say that he did not think
that latitude in any degree owing to the speech of the right
hon. gentleman the member for Droitwich. When he heard
the speech of the hon. gentleman the Under Secretary of the
War Department, he thought it was easy to anticipate what
was to follow. No doubt that hon. gentleman had been
actuated by a generous regard to the characters of those
officers, but he must by that time have been aware that he
would have acted, if not with greater geuerosity, at least
with greater prudence, if he had refrained from the course he
had pursued. He (Mr. Gladstone) lamented the introduction
of the names of General Airey, of Lord Cardigan, of Lord
Lucan, Col. Gordon, and some other officers whose names
were more or less affected by this report. He still more la-
mented the introduction of the name of Sir J. Simpson into
that discussion. With respect to Col, Goi-don, he would ob-
serve that that officer was not the head of the quartermas-
ter-general's department, he was not charged with the issue
of army clothing. From the speech of the Under-Secretary
of the War Department one would suppose that Col. Gordon
was the officer charged with that department. He was nei-
ther the head of the department nor was lie the person
charged with duties the performance of which had caused so
much dissatisfaction. He regretted that the house was called
upon to say anything with respect to the position of the Cri-
mean Commissioners either in their relation to the Govern-
ment or to the country. When be had seen the notice of
motion of the hon. member for Sheffield, in which he stated
" that there was to be a commission of general officers to
report upon the report of Sir John M'Neil and Colonel
Tulloch," he (Mr. Gladstone) felt there could be no
ground for such a statem nt as that. He felt sure the
Government would uphold the commissioners who had
undertaken so important a duty, under such painful cir-
cumstances, as inquiring into the condition of an army
whose sufferings bad harrowed up the feelings of that house
and the country a year ago. He felt sure the Govern-
ment would give no grounds for the charge that a com-
mission was to be appointed no inquire into tho report of
those commissioners. No one could read the warrant for the
appointment of the commission without adopting the opinions
of the hon. gentleman opposite. When he, in conjunction
with his friends the hon. member for Carlisle and the hon.
member for Wiltshire, chose rather to quit their offices than
consent to the inquiry by committee• into the state of the
army, he said that the report of such a committee must ne-
cessarily be feeble and futile as well as unjust—that that com-
mittee would have no power to suggest improvements, and
that the house would not act upon its conclusions. Had those
assertions been verified or not ? The fate of the motion of
the hon, member for Sheffield, last summer, beat an veered
that question. - The appointment of Sir J. M'Neil and Col.

Tulloeh was au act in which neither ho nor his friends had any
share, but he would say that when the names of those gentle-
men were announced by the noble lord at tho head of the Go-
vernment, every one felt that no two individuals better quali-
fied by their character, their abilities, their exi,erience, acti-
vity, and intelligence could have been selected to form such a
commission. It was stated at the head of the warrant that
"a beard of general officers are to inquire into the statements
contained in the report, and on the evidence oa which the

report is founded." And the hon. member for Sheffield in his
speech distinctly challenged the Under-Secretary'for the War
Department upon this subject. He said, "Are you going to
re-try the repot tof the commission ?" That challenge was
unanswered. He (Mr. Gladstone) had listened with anxiety,
but without hearing any acknowledgment of the labours of
the commission. He had not heard of any benefit resulting
from it, or of any intention on the part of the Government to
uphold it. He had heard that there were discrepancies be-
tween the report and the evidence. If such were the case it
was the duty of the Government, enjoined alike by prudence
and good faith, to bring the discrepancies to some settlement
and issue. The warrant was not more definite on the prin-
ciple, on which it proceeded thin in its title. It did not define
the persons into whose acts inquiry was to be made. The
commission was authorised to try nobody except those against
whom animadversions were made in the report. Was it true
that the report contained great animadversions on officers ?
There were but one or two passages which could be construed
into animadversions. Dr. Hall had been censured; but it might
be questioned whether Lord Cardigan had been animadverted
on or not. That noble lord had, with high spirit and honour,
written a letter explaining those parts of the report which
related to himself, leaving his case with confidence in the
hands of the Crown. The question of the position in which
Sir John M'Neil and Colonel Tulloch were to stand before the

commission was the most important point con,idered.
Those gentlemen had not been authorised to inquire into the
conduct of officers, and they had adhered with singular fido-
lity to their instructions. They were ordered to collect the
facto of the ease, and to suggest remedies. The reports were
a collection of facts, and the commissioners had done no more
than obey the orders and instructions which wore given to
them. It might be said that out of facts inferences arose
which were prejudiciar to the character of officers. He (Mr.
Gladstone) regretted that the precedent afforded by the cora-
minion app
eintad after the battle of Clara bad not been fol.

lowed in the appointment of the Crimean commission ; if it
had the report of that commission would have been clearer
than it was. Were the facts stated by the commissioners in
the main untrue? The Under-Secretary for the War Depart-
ment thought that there were two points in which the report
required rectification, and they were only cases in which the
opinion of a witness did not appear to be reported with per-
fect precision. He (Mr. Gladstone) thought a short-hand wri-
ter should have been sent out with the commissioners ; with
their own pens and their own hands they had taken down
the mass of evidence which then filled a largo blue-book ;
and he was only astonished that a greater number of carers
had not occurred. It did not require a great deal of trou-
b'e t ) rectify those errors; it was the duty of the do-
partmeut to give the parties power to explain those
errors by access to any documents necessary for that
purpose. He had not found fault with what the Under Secre-
tary for the War Department had said, it was with what he
had not said. He hoped the noble lord at the head of the
Government would bo able to tell them in what position Sir
J. M'Neil and Col. Tulloch stood before the Government in
regard to their report, which, in his opinion, had earned for
them the gratitude of the country. He hoped the noble lord
would assure them that however loose the wording of the war-
rant was with respect to what the commission was to inquire
into, that the intention with which that body had been ap-
pointed was essentially the same as that appointed after the
Convention of Clara —simply of investigating the military
responsibility of the officers whose conduct was impugned.
He thought the limits of the inquiry should be defined be-
fore the commission sat, or it would be too late to attain that
object.
Mr. WILKINSON made a few observations, which were
inaudible in the gallery.
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, I think that the course which
those proceedings have taken has sufficiently proved that the
hon. and ledrned gentleman who made this motion has not
et ircised a sound discretion is choosing the present moment
for introducing it. My hon. friend the Under Secretary of
State for the War Department has been much blamed by
many hon. members who have spoken, for having entered into
the details of the matters to which the motion of the hon.
and learned gentleman referred. But if anybody w ll take the
trouble to read the words of the motion which we aro now
discussing, they will sec that those words compelled my hon-
ourable friend to enter into the details which he felt it his
duty to introduce into his speech. Sir, the .motion of the
honourable and learned gentleman is a censure upon the
Government, far h tying appointed to military situations
persons whose it nduct has been canvassed and impugned
by the report the conamissiouers ; and my honourable
friend the *Mt er Secretary, for State but performed his
duty in endeligouring to show that the Government was not
to blam) for the appointments which the hon, and learned
gentleman regrets were made. He shows that one of these
apeointsuents took place before that commission was ap-
pointed; he shows that others took place be:ore the report
was presented to the GoVernment, and consequently, oven if
the report had adverted in stronger terms than it did to the
conduct of the parties concerned, these appointments having
taken place before the report was in the hands of the Govern-
ment, it was impossible for the Government to have acted
upon a report of which they were not iu possession; there-
fore the hor. and learned gentleman's censure falls to the
ground. I. think it is very unfortunate that the debate should
have led to animadversions upon officers who will be allowed
an opportunity of stating their case to a competent tribunal.
The hon, and gallant officer who spoke from below the gang-
way began by lamenting that this debate had taken a personal
turn, and yet the whole of his speech was nothing but a tissue
of personal allusions, attacks upon individuals, and attacks
upon officers, high and low, which I think really were not
consistent with the generous character which my hon. and
gallant friend, if he will allow me to call him so, always
evinces. On calm reflection he will feel that it would have
been more becoming the high position which ho holds, both
in this house and in the army, if he had spared those attacks
upon efticere below him—(hear, hoar)—attacks, I must say,
not deserved by them from the person by whom they were
made. Sir, it has been asserted that the course of proceed-
ings which the Government have taken is a reflection upon
the commissioners who were sent out to the Crimea. I
utterly deny the charge. (Cheers.) In the beginning of the
last year two commissioners were seat out to the Crimea.
Sir John M'Neil and Colonel Tulloch were- appointed to
inquire into t:.e supplies of the army ; and another com-
mission, consisting of two medical gentlemen, both eminent
in their position, was sent out to inquire into the medical
condition of the army. Colonel Tulloch and Sir John
M'Neil have performed their duties to the entire satis-
faction of the Government, and to the infinite advantage of
the service (loud cheers) —and the result has been,
that whereas at the time they went out great local confusioa
and irregularity existed is all the arrangements connected
with the supplies of the army, from the time they set those
matters right to the present the army has been exceedingly
well supplied, and regularity and abundance have succeeded
to irregularity and deficiency of supply. (Cheers.) I must,
therefore, beg to be clearly understood when I say, that her
Majesty's Government feel much obliged to the gentlemen
who performed those duties which they undertook for the
very able and satisfactory discharge of their duty; and there
has been nothing in the course which we have taken of ap-
pointing a board of general officers which implies the slightest
reflection upon the conduct and proceedings of those two
commissioners. (Hoar, hear.) What, then, is the state of
the case ? Why, it is this—that the reports of the commis-
sioners contain statements which several officers consider cast
reflections upon their conduct, and those officers have a right
to expect that there should be afforded to them some means
and some proper authority before whom they could give those
explanations which it is due to their own characters to make.
What better opportunity, I ask, could be afforded to them
than the appointment of a board of general officers? Is it
in debate in this house that such explanations could be better
given ? I appeal to the example of this evening to show
how utterly unsatisfactory such a course would have been,
either to the persons concerned, to this hoes°, or to the
country at large. (Hear, hear.) Would a select committee
of this house have been a better means ? No. Would a
select committee of the House of Commons be as competent
to judge of matters connected with military details as a
board of general officers, necessarily conversant as they
must be with everything which will be referred to them?
Sir, honourable gentlemen have chosen to teem ellerr views
of the functions of this board from the title quoted at
the back of the warrant appointing the commissioners.
If, instead of taking detached words at the back of the
paper, they had had the goodness to read the paper itself,
they would have seen that the board of general officers is
not to report upon the report of the commissioners, but that
it is to inquire into matters the mention of which certain
officers think has cast a reflection upon their character and
conduct, to receive explanations, and to report their opinion
thereupon. I cannot conceive anything less objectionable
than the appointment of this board, for it seems to me to be
the only proper method of affording to the officers iu epics-
' tion that opportunity for explanation which they are fairly
entitled to demand. I cannot go, therefore, with my right
hon. friend,'who says that we ought to have followed the pre-
cedent of the convention of Cintra, because upon that occa-
sion the board of general officers were to report whether any
military proceedings should take place in consequence of
their investigation, In the first place the case was one very
different from the present. On that occasion a simple mat-
ter, and one upon which it was easy to form an opinion, was
to be inquired into; here the matters to be inquired into are
much more complicated in their character. This board of
general officers is called upon to report their opinion. That
opinion may be either that military proceedings are required,
or that there is no occasion for any further proceedings in
this, that, or the other case which may be submitted to
their judgment. Now, wo are told that we ought not to have
laid the report of these commissioners upon the table of the
house until her Majesty's Government had inquired fully into
all the matters to which it related, and settled their opinions
as to the conduct of every person whose conduct was in any I
degree animadverted upon in the report. I should like
to know now what would have been the call for this re-
port, what would have been the imputations cast upon the
Government of wishing to conceal some grand dereliction of
duty, toprevent the exposure of monstrous abuses, to pro-
tect delinquents, to withhold information? All this would
have been said if, after taking these proceedings, and send-
ing to the Crimea for information and examination, we had
refused to lay the report before-the house. Why, sir, there
would have been a prejudice created in the public mind, and
imputations would have been made, supported by prima
facie evidence, en which would have been based the most
serious attacks, for which no foundation whatever existed in
fact. The only course I conceive which the Government could
take was to lay the report, which contained a great deal of
very valuable information, as soon as possible before Parlia-
ment, and then to give those officers who felt that their con-
duct had been impugned by portions of the evidence which
had been collected and published, proper opportunities of
making those explanations which it was dna to their charac-
ter they should make. The hon. and gallant officer appeared
not to know the period at which tho discussion is taking
place. Any person who had listened to the speech of the hon,
and gallant officer, without knowing exactly what year we
are in, and what the present state of things is, might readily
have imagined that we are discussing at this time last year the
state of the army in the Crimea. The hon. and gallant officer
went back to all the unfortunate circumstances connected
with the distressing situation of the army in the early period
of its service referred to. Whit bearing has that upon the
present state of things? Unfortunately when that army
was landed there was a complication of circumstances, which
exposed it to great and almost unprecedented hardships.
The service itself was one of the most difficult character—
difficult on account of the local service to bo performed
difficult because the siege was to be carried on and the
army to be supplied, that army being dependent for its sup •
plies upon places differently situated, and i articularly upon
a small port which afforded little or no convenience for
landing stores, in which there was not room for transports to
lie—and difficult because the arrangements were conducted
by persons who were new to the position in which they found
themselves. From all these circumstances the army was un-
fortunately exposed to difficulties and privations which no
British army, perhaps, over before in the history of the coun-
try had to support. They did support those diffieulties most
gallantly, most nobly. (Cheers.) They faced the dangers and
endured the privations and hardships of the camp with the
same courage and intrepidity which they manifested in the
face of the enemy on the field of battle; and I consider that
the fortitu le with which they bore those privations and hard-
ships reflects as much honour upon the British army as the
valour which they displayed upon the fields of Alma, Inker-

man, or Balaklava. (Cheers.) Fortunately, however, that
state of things ceased to exist, and f r the last eight or ten
months the army has boon in a totally different condition.
The health of the British army is now, as we know, better
than the health of auy other bady of troops in any other part
of the world ; therefire, all the observations of the hon. and
gallant officer, applicable to that period of distress, fall to the
ground, because they refer to matters relating to a time gone
by. So far from the mortality in the army in the Crimea now
being such as the hon. and gallant officer represents, it is
less, I believe, than that of an equal number iu any part of
the United kingdom. Then with regard to the arrangements
of the medical department, or the Quartermaster-General's
department, the hoe. gentleman opposite (Mr. Stafford),
who, much to his honour, has devoted that part of the year
when he is not In attendance in this house to inquiring into
the condition of the army in the Crimea, has most generously
given his testimony to the admirable condition of all the
hospital arrangemants in the Crimea, and that all the

aiTangements connected with the supplies of the army
are now as perfict as the nature of things can possibly.
admit. (Hoar, hear) Well, sir, we are told that the Go-
vernment are to he blamed because Sir R. Airey was ap-
pointed quartermaster•general at home. Sir R. Airey was

guarterniaster-general during the first period to which I have
alluded, when the supplies and arrangements of the army
wore not in a satisfactory condition, but ho was also quarter-
master-general of the army during the subsequent period,
when the supply was well regulated, and all the arrangements
were =dein the most satisfactory manner. I should like to
know when Sir Richard Airoy, who came home on account of

ill hea'th, was in this country, and the office of quartermas-
ter-general became vacant, who was the person whom the
Government or the Commander-in-Chief could more fittingly
cr more naturally have chosen to fill that situation than the
officer who had had themost recent experieueo of its duties,
and under whom those (nties had, during the greatest period,
been performed in the most satisfactory manner ? (Cheers )
Therefore, the censure which the hon, and learned gentleman
in this motion—and I am simians to the motion—wishes to