The Sun.
London, England, 1856-06-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON. FRIDAY EVEN I s 6, JUNE 20, 1856.

by the house, becanee the Government ought to be left
free to decide when it was necessary to ava.l themselves of
th.• advantage of drawing c•omnnandiug officers front the
s:ientific corps. I wcu:d be very inconvenient to adopt a
resolution which would imply that the Government
should always employ officers of the scientific corps,
either in a given ratio to their own corps, or in a given
ratio to the whole army. There were reasons why hitherto
general officers of the scientific corps were not selected
for commands so frequently in proportion as officers of
the line. Those general officers were usually advanced
in years, because the artillery and engineers being senio-
rity corps, had not the advantage of purchase to insure
the promotion of younger men, and, besides, their pro-
motion to the rank of general was not made according
to their standing in the army, but according to their
regimental rank. For the future, however, the only
question would be what promotions were best for the
:,..rvice of the country, and if any 'general of artillery
cir engineers should be selected to command a b. dy of
mixed troops, there could be no objection, and no
jealousy felt as to what arm of the service he belonged.
Tere had been hitherto a jealousy on that point, for it
was only natural that the Horse Guards should not be
anxious to employ officers who were under the command
of the Master-General of the Ordnance, and over whom
they had no control ; but now that thtsa corps were
transferred to the Horse Guards, there would be no in-
terest f-It there for employing one set of officers rather
than another; and the Government would be able to
.elect the best instruments for the command of troops
wherever tbey could find them, without regard to what
aria of the service they belonged.
Major KNOX said the hon. gentleman had stated
that officers who had reached the rank of colonel, and were
afterwards appointed to the command of brigades or
divisions, would be continued in the commands if they
gave satisfaction. It would seem, then, that the colonels
who had commanded brigades, and, in one instance, a
division, in the Crimea, had not given satisfaction, for
they were to return to their regiments and not to be
made major-generals,
The motion was not pressed, and the house then went
into committee of supply on the

that the gratification those fireworks afforded was worth
all the money.

Lord HOTHAM observed that if the Clerk of the Ord-
dance did not know the expense at kVoolwich, it was be-
cause he had taken good c are not to inquire. If he inquired
of competent persons at Woolwich, he would find that they
put it down at not lees than 30,0001.
Mr. MITCHELL said where he stood to witness the fire-
works, one of the rockets came down and killed a boy. He
looked at the rocket, and it weighed 2lbs. He would cau-
tion the Master-General of the Ordnance, if he ever hid
such an exhibition again, not to allow such missiles to be
sent up to fall on the heads of persons who were not at all
expecting them.
The vote was then agreed to.

The next vote was 101. in addition to 4,000,0001. previ-
ously voted, to supply clothing, forage, fuel, provision,
and light.
Mr. MONSELL said before he made any reference to this ii
subject, he would assure the noble lord that he was willing
to give any in',7ormation with regard to the fireworks. Oue
of the first directions that he gave to the o;_acer at Wool-
wich was to keep the account as separate as possible, in
order that if any hon. member wished to have it it might
be forthcoming. He was willing, indeed anxious, to lay the
account on the table. With regard to the present vote,
he was happy to be able to inform the committee that
although at the time the reduced estimate w.,s framed it
was considered it would be necessary to take a vote of
500.000/. in addition to the vote already taken, they had
now ascertained that they were able to dispense with that
sum, and therefore this was one of the nominal votes. The
reason that the former calculation had been discovered to
be erroneous was that the troops had come more rapidly
from the Crimea than they anticipated. Tao first item in
this vote was for clothing. The original estimate was
1,826,0001. The estimate now was 1,023,1211. With regard
to the commissariat the amount that was required ex-
clusive of the troops at the seat of war, was for provisions
571,764/. ; forage, 385.0 0/. ; fuel with light, 206,0001. Of
course in those items there could be no reduction. It would
appear at first sight that there would be au increase on ac-
count of the number of troops coming home, bat that in-
crease would be slight, because the disembodiment of the
militia would reduce the number of troupe to be provided
for by the commissariat. A sum of 328,000/. was taken
for provisions at the seat of war, instead of 1,600,0001., as
in the original estimate. The original estimate was calcu-
lated on the assumption that we should have 100,0 .0 men
at the seat of war throughout the year, and in point of
fact,-in the month of April, there were 10 1,000. For the
article of forage at the seat of war the vote was only for
three months, making a sum of 456,0001., instead of the
enormous sum of somewhere about four millions and a
half asked for in the original estimate. For fuel and light
instead of a sum of 222,0001., only 53,0001. was taken,
making altogether in the commissariat a reduction of
2,315,0001., and leaving a margin, without taking an addi-
tional vote, of somewhere about 400,0001. for the purpose
of meeting contingencies.
On the question that 10,0001, balance of 2,500,0001. be
voted to defray the charge of stores fur the land and sea
force%
Sir C. NAPIER drew attention to the result of the ex-
periments at Shoeburyness, and adverted to the bursting of
mortars at the bombardment of Sweaborg. lie attributed
the bursting to the rapidity and continuous repetition of
the firing ; for at the siege of Martinique which was carried
on entirely by means of mortars, none of the guns burst,
owing t) their being fired only at intervals of a quarter of
an hour.

Mr. MONSELL said the authorities at Shoelauryness had
expressed an opinion that the rapidity of firing did not
render the gun more liable to burst. The experiments
hitherto, however, had not been quite satisfactory, and
they were being continued, particularly with reference to
guns of a long range.
Sir C. NAPIER would put these two cases. Suppose
1,000 rounds were fired within 24 hours, and I,ood within
a week ; was it the opinion of those who had made the
experiments that in the latter the gun would be just as
liable to burst as in the former?

Mr. MONSELL was understood to reply that the
opinion of the artillery officers certainly went to that extent.
The right hon. gentleman then proceeded to enumerate the
items in the original estimate which showed reduction. In
tke supply of small arms there was a retluction of 203,0001.;
in the supply of iron, &c., 3 i 1,651/. ; saltpetre, 2 009/. ;
gunpowder, 121,0004. ; and 128,0001. in the miscellaneous
stores. The total of the reductions was 1,765,185/. ; and
he could assure the committee that the Ordnance ware
taking the means to effectually prevent any improper or
undue expenditure of stores. It must be obvious to the
committee that after this year the vote for stores would bo
very small, because large quantities were coming heck from
the seat of war, and thy would be available for the future.

Mr. A. PEI;LA.TT Wished to know what had been the
result of the machinery for the construction of small arms,
and whether the factory at Enfield was to be continued?
Mr. MONSELL said that question opened up a fruitful
field of controversy ; but he could state that within the
last few days he had seen arms turned out of this factory
made in first-rate style, and admitted by the Birmingham
gentlemen to be quite equal to any work Trade at the price
which certainly astonished him. In fact the saving in the
cost of producing small arms woul,t be such that in two or
three years it would be enough to pay the expense of erect-
in; the factory. (Hear.) Recently a meeting of the prin-
cipal grin manufactu'ers of Birceiogham was held, and at
that meeting the majority decided on taking steps for the
erection of similar machinery in their own establishments ;
but at all events, if they do not, they will soon find out
that the Government could beat them at their work.
However, every opportunity would be given them to see
what was going on at Enfield, and he hoped they would
bike advantege of what they saw. (Hear.)
Mr. MUNTZ was di3posel to doubt whether Govern-
ment could be it 134;ninghatn—(a laugh)— but he would
not re-open that controversy now, as he wanted to say a
few words upon the print referred to by the h- n. and gal-
lant admiral. The truth was, the weakness of the mortars
was owing to the want of improvement in their construc-
tion, and it was no proof at all that they did ❑ot burst
when they were tested at, Shoeburynes3. The guns were
201bs. practice, and yet they had 211 b. proof. It was asto-
nishing to him that they did not burst.
Mr. M. CHAMBERS observed that hitherto it had been
the practice to keep large quantities of arms in store, and
when improvementawere discovered they were found to be
totally useless. 'Would it be better, then, to abandon the
practice of ntorirg to any great extent, now that there was
machinery ?tiniest ado rate to meet every demand ? But
another evil attendant input extoosively storing was, that
it le,d a tendency to prevent the adoption of improvements.
Mr. H. BAILLIE asked whether any progress had been
made in the manufacture and issue of breech-loading arms ?
Mr. NIONSELL said a committee had been carrying on
experiments at Enfield with regard to breech-loading arms,
but as yet no arm had been found which was considered to
be altogether successful. They had got for the cavalry be-
tween 2,0)0 and 3,000 breech-loading arms, but at the same
time they did not come u? entirely to that degree of per-
fection that had been expected. With regmr to storing
arms, the committee need be under no apprehension that it
would be carried to excess, because at present the supply.
did not at all keep pace with the demand.
The vote was then agreed ‘o
•

Upon the oue4tio❑ that 45,000/. in addition to 1,794,0691.
already agreed to be voted to defray the charge of works,
buildings, and repairs at home and abroad,
Lord BERNARD urged upon the Government the neces-
sity of establishing a riding school in connection with the
garrison of Cork. He knew from experience derived during
the late w .r th ttstr.th a school was much needed at Cork.

Capt. L. VERNON could second the appeal the noble
lorl He had served in various military capacities in Ire-
laud, and had had frequent opportunities of experiencing
the want of such a school at Cork, which was both an ar-
tillery and a military station.
Col. LINDSAY enforced the importance of at once
taking steps to improve the barrack accommodation of the
country generally. Of late a great deal had been done to
ameliorate the condition of the army, but so long as bar-
racks continued in the state in which even the new and
improved.ones ware still to be found, it would be idle to
sxo?ct as many respectable persons to enlist as they could
desire. _ _

The CLERK of the ORDNANCE entirely agreed with
all that had fallen from the gallant colonel, and so far as
those barracks which were about to be built, or which were
in the course of election, wore concern, d, all that the hon.
gentleman wished could be effected without entailing any
such additional expense as would be likely to meet with
opposition. The cost of building barracks for 1,00 f men
on the cld system would be about 70,0001.; the cost upon
the proposed plan, giving one-fourth the number of cubic
feet additional per man, separate quarters for married sol-
diers, additional rooms for staff-serjeants, a sufficient num-
ber of lavatories, and the like, would only be about 15,000/.
extra. (Hear.)

PAXTON thought the argument of his right hon.
friend with regard to barrack accommodation rather
showed that they ought not to proceed any further with the
vote. An a member of the Barrack Committee, he perfectly
concurred in all that had been said. Indeed, it had been
demonstrated before them that the soldier was the worst-
housed person in her Majesty's dominions. (Loud cheers.)
It appeared that the prisons had cost no less than 15D,1.
per wan ;.and he thought that our brave defenders de-
served to he lodged at least as well as criminals. (Cheers.)
Thu vote Was then agreed to.
On the vote of 38,401/. for expenses with relation to the
Ordnance survey,

Mr. ELLICE said that the principle of this vote in-
volved a question of the expenditure of 5,000,0 01. of
money. It had been admitted by the head of the Ordnance
devirtmeat that in five years two years had been wasted,
and. 45,000% had been pectively thrown away. The propo-
sition, which the committee who hed sat upon the subject,
had affirmed, went to this, that every proprietor in Scot-
land should have a complete plan of their estates at the
public cost, (Hear, hear.) Beyond the use to the owners
of the property it was difficult to say who would benefit by
this expense, and even with regard to these, the continued
changes, in the sub-division of laud and the position of
buildings, would speedily render such a plan false and use-
less. It had been said that this plan would simplify the
transfer of land, but what he had already said with refer-
ence to the changes in the features of estates would soon
render those plans unavailing for such a purpose. The
six-inch scale was condemned by everybody, and was only
kept up by the Ordnance as a sort of experiment, and to
justify their own vanity of setting before the world an en-
gineering curiosity. He thought it time to call attention
to the fact that this was the beginning of an expenditure,
the end of which it was difficult to foresee. There would
be a saving of 600,0001. in Scotland alone between the cost
of the inch scale and the six-inch scale. He would bring
the matter to a point by moving that the vote be reduced
by 8,0001.
Mr. MONSELL observed that the matter had been sub.
mitted to the most eminent scientific men in the country,
who had expressed their opinions in writing, in favour of
the plan which the hon. gentleman called a mere engineei.
ing curiosity. The scale decided upon in the case of Scot-
land was in accordance with the expressed wishes of the
people of that country, who objected to the one-inch scale,
and preferred a twenty-five inch scale, which had
been determined upon, and which might be executed at a
comparatively moderate cost. The committee should re-
collect that a great proportion of this work was done by
the Sappers—a most important body of men in time of
war, and which it was necessary to keep up, but for whom
there was no other employment during peace. For this pur-
pose, therefore, this expenditure was useful. He hoped
the committee would resist the amendment, as there could
be no acre prolific source of unnecessary expense than con-
stant changes of the plan and the mode in which the sur-
vey-was to be carried out.
After a few words from Sir T. D. ACLAND,
Sir W, JOLLIFFE spoke in favour of the amendment,
and complained that the survey of Scotland had been corn-
rrenced before that of England was completed, and that
those districts where the extent of the population and the
value of the property required the survey—which would
have insured a large sale of the maps—had been neglected,
while in other distiicts, where there was not likely to be
any such demand, the survey had been completed and the
map etriarave 1.
Mr. STEPHENSON considered that each scale had its
advantage, but observed that they were left without that
which would be the 'most useful map of any other—that
wee a map of the whole a
.( tiaritainikucl Ireland on 0

uniform scale. What all scientific men called for was the
completion of the one-inch scale. In France and other
conti.iental countries there was no difficulty in procuri-g
correct maps prepared by the government—we, who p,.id
infinitely more money than ,they did, find nothing of the
kind. He called in questiim the report of the Ordnance
Survey Committee, anti observed that the Ordnance deter-
mined to go oa with the six-inch map, which was not re-
quired, neglecting the inch map, which would be generally
useful.

Lord DUNCAN, as chairman of the committee which
sat on the subject, defended their recommendation, quoting
the authority of Col. Dawson and other witnesses who were
examined, that the larger survey was, upon the whole, the
more economical. It wrs impossible to increase an inch
survey to a higher scale, whereas there was no difficulty
in reducing the larger to the smaller scale. He had
heard it insinuated that this was a job of the Scotch pro- '
priators. (" [fear, hear," from Mr. W. Williams.) He
knew that when grants were proposed for the metropolitan
police, the hon. member who cheered was not in the hebit
of opposing them ; he recollected, too, how he had sup-
ported similar proposals with regard to the metropolitan
parks. (Cheers and laughter.) Having probed this ques-
tion to the bottom, he found that the 25-inch scale did not
originate with the Scotch proprietors, but in the example
set by France, where a committee of inquiry sat for ten
years on the subject. ( Laughter.) The Emperor Napoleon
adopted the 25-inch survey which the French committee
recommended ; Bavaria, Austria, and other countries fol-
lowed the example thus set ; and evidence was given before
the committee of which be (Lord Duncan) was the chair-
man of the entire success of that survey. Mr. Vignolles
stated in Ilia examination that one effect of the survey
was to do Away with conveyanciug—(laughter)—and thus
testimony was supported by the opinion of a gentleman
whom he saw behind him—(great laughter)—the Lord Ad-
vocate. He admitted that for a geographical map a one-
inch scale was quite sufficient, but the committee thought
that a survey should be completed which would serve
many national purposes, such as the registration of estates
and the enclosure of waste lands, and that for that end a
25-inch scale was desirable. It was their opinion that the
time had at length arrived when a survey should be made
on the most comprehensive plan. He had no wish to have
a survey for Scotland alone; and, in point of fact, while
the Scotch survey was going on a corresponding one was
nroceeding in Durham and other northern counties of
England. It had been stated that something like
5,000,0001. was going to be expended on this matter. To
that assertion he gave the most unqualified contradiction.
Col. James had declared, after a year's experience, that at
the utmost the expense of the Scotch survey would not
exceed 917,0001., and it was his (Lord Duncan s) own opi-
nion that it would not cost even that amount. The peo-
ple of this country, though on the whole perhaps the most
civilised people in the world, bad certainly not shone as
regarded sui vet's. Let hon. members consider for a mo-
ment the railway surveys. (Hear, and laughter.) On the
economical question he considered himself quite as good
an authority as the hon. gentleman who had just spoken.
(Laughter.) As regarded expense, the course pursued in
Scotland was to vary the survey according to the varying
character and wants of the country. He stood there pre-
pared to justify the report of the committee, and he be-
lies-€(1 the vote now under consideration was one of the
most economical votes that had ever been proposed.
Lord ELCHO, after entering into a history of the Scotch
survey, observed that the committee of which he was a
member were unanimously of opinion that the larger scale
ought to be adopted, and had abundant reasons for coming
to that conclusion. Having the opinion of Cul. Dawson in
favour of a 25-inch scale, they issued circulars to nearly all
the most eminent surveyors and scientific societies in the
kingdom, consulting them on the question, and the result
of that step was, that they received 32 replies in favour of
the 6-inch scale, and 120 in favour of a scale of from 20 to
26 inches.

After a few words from Mr. W. LOCKHART,

Lord PALMERSTON said he hoped the house would
not agree to the amendment, He could understand Parlia-
ment declining to have any survey or map of the country,
for though that would be a singular it would be an iota-
ligiAe decision ; but what he could not understand was
having an imperfect survey. All the nations of Europe
had adopted the 25-inch scale. We had the map of Eng-
land on the one-inch scale, and it was said that we
should have a map of Scotland on the same scale, and
in order to have that map it was necessary to have the
survey made on a much larger scale. It was not intended
to have the 25 inch map published generally ; but it would
be reserved only for special purposes of valuation of land
said similar purposes. It was said there was to be a large
expenditure of money in the survey, but if the survey had
been made on the larger scale originally there would have
been a great saving of expense. He hoped no weight would
be attached to the argument that the vote was only for
Scotland, for that argument would apply to prevent the be-
ginning of any great public improvement. There was al-
ready a map on this scale partly finished for England and
Ireland, and Scotland having come last it was desirable
that the same kind of survey should be extended to that
part of the country.
Mr. E ELLICE said that according to the report of the
committee it was intended to publish the large scale map
for Scotland, and especially of the Highlands, where it
would be utterly useless. It was said that this scale was
adopted in all foreign countries; but Sir Roderick Mnrcbi-
son stated that no foreign country had published maps on
so large a scale, that of Bavaria being the largest, and that,
was only on a scale of 1-inch and 1-10th of an inch. As to
the necessity of surveying on a large scale in order to get
the map on the 1-inch scale, it was only necessary to sur-
vey on a 2•inch scale for that purpose.
Mr. COWAN said, if the amendment was pressed, he
sh i vote for it, though he bad rather it were withdrawn.
. .

The LORD ADVOCATE said that it was not intended
to publish the 25-inch scale maps, nor did the committee
so recommend, but it was only intended to publish the 1-
inch and the 6-inch maps. It was admitted that the 1-
inch scale as applied to Scotland would have been of no
use, and it was thought by the committee that the 25. inch
scale, both for purposes relating to :roperty and sanitary
purposes, woubl be the best as well as the most economical.
Lord LECH() said it was intended to publish the large
map, but it was to bo engraved by the Anastatic process,
which -would render it so cheap that the sale of 33 copies
would provide for the expenw.

The committee divided—
For the amendment
Against it l6O
Majority
Colonel LINDSAY wished to ask a question of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer in reference to an institution
(the United Service Institution) in the metropolis which
was devoted to naval and military science. He wished to
know whether the right hon. gentleman had taken into
consideration the state of that institution, and whether he
would proposa a vote in aid of it ?
I'ne CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER believed
that the institution b which the hon. and gallant gentle-
Mall referred was one at which lectures were delivered on
naval and military subjects, and which also contained a
naval and military museum. His noble friend at the head
of the War Department had intimated to him his wish
that the ground rent of the institution should bo defrayed
at the public expense. That recommendation was now
under consideration.

The vote was then agreed to.
On the next vote, 1,5001., for the gratuitous education
of 20 Queen's cadets, the sons of officers who have died
ou service, and have left their families in reduced circuni-
tunes,
Mr. WILLIAMS asked whether a larger sum would be
required in future years ?
Mr. F. PEEL replied that the future vote would he
about 2,0001.
The vote was then agreed to. and the house resumed.
AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS BILL.

The order of the day for the second reading being read,
for the purpose of being postponed,
Mr. BENTTNCK wished to know whether the noble
lord at the head of the Government would fix any day for
proceeding with the bill ? It had several times been post-
poned, to the great inconvenience of many members.
Viscount PALMERSTON said that any person who
attended to the business of the house must know that
nothing was so itnpossiblJ as to say what would come on
on any day. With the firmest intention of bringing for-
ward a particular measure, circumstances arose which
made it impossi _ _

Mr. BE NTINCK again rose. bnt was interrupted by
The SPEAKER, who said there was no question before
the house.

Mr. BKNTINCK then moved that the house adj•urn ;
but

The SPEAKER informed him he could not move the
adjournment, having already spoken.
Mr. E. BALL then moved that the house adjourn. Ile
said the measure before the house was one of great im-
portance and growing interest, and he hoped the Govern-
ment would either fix a day or postpone it to next day.
Mr. BENTINCK said the noble lord talked of the diffi-
culty of bringing on any particular measure, but it rested
with the noble lord himself to remove the difficulty ; it
was entirely in his discretion, and he had found no diffi-
culty in fixing a day for the proposed motion of the hon.
member for Louth (Mr. C. Fortescue). (hear, hear )

After some further discussion. the motion for the ad-
journment of the house wise withdrawn.
COALWHIP ,'ERS' (PORT OF LONDON) BILL.
On the order of the day for the second reading of this
bill,
Mr. LOWE said the object of the bill was to continue an
act, which was proposed to remedy the state in which the
coalwhippers in the port of London were formerly. when
they were in effect the slaves of certain publicans. The act
had had the desired effect. The coalwhippers' were no
longer hired in public houses, but a central office had been
established. It had been represented to them by persons
engaged in the coal trade of the north of England and in
London that the bill was no longer necessary, and he was
willing to consent to the order being discharged, on an un-
dertaking, which had been entered into on behalf of the
coal-owners, that they will themselves uphold an office at
which the coal-whippers will be engaged andpaid, and that
they will be no longer hired and paid at public houses;
and that if these terms are not complied with, they will
make no opposition to the act being re-enacted next year.
On these representations the Government were willing to
consent tothe discharge of the order, but he should wish
that some of the gentlemen representing the trade E hould
rise and say that the undertaking was as he had stated it.
Mr. FEN said the right hon. gentleman had
fairly represented the understanding which had been en-
tered into by the coalowners. He believed that the act,
although it repressed some evils, had been the cause of
other evils. He could only say that if the conditions were
not complies with they should offer no opposition to the
renewal of the act next session.

Mr. INGHAM said the sentiments expressed by the last
speaker were shared in by all the coalownere. They
thought that the act had - now become superfluous, and
measures had been taken by which the coalwhippers wool('
not he subject to the impositions of the publicans. The
agreement had been signed by the coalowuers of the Tyne
and the Wear. _ .

Mr. GLADSTONE had heard the assertion that this act
had created other evils with very great regret. because
what were the evils that had been renedied ? Why there
were a body of 2,000 or 2,500 labourers who had been re-
duced by the system on which their trade was conducted to
a state of squalid poverty and demoralisation, which was
a disgrace to those connected with the trade, and a dis-
grace to the country. These were evils which induced
who was not much disposed t.) interfere with the freedom
of trade, to introduce this act, and which induced the
Secretary to the Colonies and others to support it, and see-
ing that these moral results had been completely achieved,
ho was at a loss to know what were the evils which the bill
had caused, and which counterbalanced the evils of which
he had spoken. He thought they) should be a record of
the agreetnent entered into, and that Government should
consent to a motion that a copy of it should be laid on the
table of the how, and that in- "d"' t, that /Mpg done

the further proceedings of this bill should be postponed for
a fortnight.
Atter a few words from Mr. LIDDELL and Mr. FoRSTER,
Mr. LOWE assent:A to the course suggested by Mr.
Gladstone, and
The bill was accordingly postponed for a fortnight.
SEAMEN'S SAVINGS BANK BILL.
This bill was read a second time.
STOCK-IN-TRADE EXEMPTION BILL.

This bill was read a third time awl passed.
COATHAM CHURCH MAR EtIA GES VALIDITY.

Mr. MASSEY obtained leave to bring in a bill to render
valid certain marriages in the church at Coatham, in the
parish of Kirk Leatham, in the county of York.
CHURCH BUILDING COMMISSIONERS, &c.

Sir G. GREY moved for leave to bring in a bill to
transfer the powers of the Church Building Commissioners
to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners for England.
Mr. HADFIELD opposed the bill, alleging that the
Government had promised to let the Church Building Acts
expire.

Sir G. GREY said the bon. gentleman was mistaken in
supposing that the Church Building Acts were of a tem-
porary character. They cont•iined permanent provisions,
and it was necessary that there should be some authority
charged with the du.y of carrying them into execution.
Leave was then given.