The Sun.
London, England, 1869-03-20 00:00:00

Exactly at ten minutes past five o'clock Mr. Gladstone
rose, and contented himself with moving the second
reading of the bill in merely a formal manner. Mr.
Disraeli's rising was the signal for a loud cheer from the
Opposition, which lasted several seconds. The right hon.
gentleman commenced by agreeing with Mr. Gladstone in
the "gigantic issue" before the House, but he soon
assumed a bantering tone, which he continued more or less
during the whole of his speech. At one moment he was
lofty and eloquent; at the next satirical and vivacious;
and then he would . warn the House and threaten
the Government of the consequences which would
follow in the event of the bill passing into law.
His declaration that the proposed disestablishment
of the Irish Church was an act—not of justice—butof con-
fiscation and spoliation, was received with hearty out-
bursts of cheering from his own party, followed by counter
cheers from the supporters of the Government. Despite
the assurances previously expressed, the right hon. gentle-
man did not weary the House with detailed figures, but
argued the question in a clear and concise manner. As a
rule, Mr. Disraeli's forte isin debate, for it usually happens
that when he attempts to make a set speech he becomes
heavy and uninteresting. But this cannot be said of his
effort to-night, for the interest of all present was unflag-
ging. Although he was but the leader of a minority, he
struggled bravely against the overwhelming forces in his
front, and occasionally excited the sympathetic cheers of
his greatest opponents. But to those who were in the
House on the Ist of March, it was impossible not to con.
trast the speech which Mr. Gladstone then made with the
one spoken to-night by the leader of the Opposition. The
First Minister of the Crown knew that he had a large
majority at his back, and that be was leading his forces
en to victory. Mr. Disraeli appeared as one who felt that

nothing but disaster and defeat would result from

his utmost efforts, and spoke like a man who was only

protesting against what he knew was inevitable. The

Conservative forces reminded the looker-on of a noble

army, who, depressed and beaten in the open field, had
resolved to make one more effort before they capitulated.

The Liberals, on the otherhand, appeared to have no doubt

of the ultimate triumph of their endeavours, and treated
their opponents with more pity than derision. In two hours

and ten minutes Mr. Disraeli exhausted all he knew to shew

that the Irish Church should not be doomed. Argument,

ridicule, and satire were alternately brought into play, but
when he sat down the general opinion appeared to be that
although his speech was in every way a success, yet he

•
had failed to prove that what Mr. Gladstone had pro-
posed was against equity or justice. His peroration was

short and effective, and the cheers of his party loud and
long, the latter being once or twice interspersed with clap•

ping of hands from those uninitiated into the forms of the

lluse.

When Mr. Disraeli had resumed his seat there was a com-
plete exodus of members as well as strangers. The Bishop
of Oxford had left the House soon after the right hon.
gentleman commenced his speech, and Mr. Reverdy
Johnson did not stay long after the right rev. prelate.
But, with these exceptions, no person stirred from his
seat until the speech was finished. It was some minutes
before business was once more proceeded with, Mr.
Gregory being then in possession of the House. The
hon. member for Galway county frankly confessed that
he had been in favour of " levelling-up," but
saw that it was impracticable. He therefore gave his
hearty support to the Government. Next to rise was Sir
George Jenkinson, who is fast becoming a bore, in con-
sequence of his determination to take part in every
debate that comes on. His style may be exceedingly
popular among the tenant farmers of Wiltshire, but will
never be appreciated by members of the House of Com-
mons- His filched quotation from the late Colonel
Sibthorpe, " Timeo Danaos et dons ferentes," was greeted
with profound indifference, and his solemn warning—
uttered in the most funereal of tones—that "whether for
weal, or whether for woe, history would record the action
of the House," was treated with silent contempt by every-
body, it being looked upon as a thoroughly superfluous
observation. Mr. Edgar Bowring made a very successful
debut in favour of the bill, and Mr. Brodrick made an
equally successful speech against it. The latter gentle.
man spoke like a practised debater, and had evidently
well studied the part he had marked out for him-
self. His allusion to the constituency of Bandon
Bridge brought up Mr. Shaw, the first Liberal member who
has been returned for that town for 30 years. Mr. Shaw
spoke with a strong Irish accent, but his observations soon
proved that ho was a practical man, and that he was well
calculated to bear his testimony to the subject under dis-
cussion. In the most positive manner he declared that if
any hon. gentleman opposite could shew him one point of
injustice in the measure brought in by her Majesty's
Government, be should have no hesitation in voting against
his party. This, however, be went on to say (amid the
encouraging cheers of members around him) was im-
possible, for every act of the present Government had
proved that they were thoroughly in earnest in their
endeavoua to deal with Irish discontent.

House had recovered its interest in t
It was not until Mr. Assbeton Crosshorodseeb,
atthe since
ttcitlee
Mr. Disraeli concluded his speech. As the victor
over Mr.
Gladstone in South-WestMr. Cross's appearance was
especiallyLaansegarsahvqaret,.
ing to those sitting on the Liberal benches.
During
his speech he evidently intended to fly at high
game—now attacking Mr. Bright, and then having a tilt
were so
holoort,ghaimnd
dotweari-
some
with
that
G Gladstone. to n e.
Liberals His remarks
attempted to
whereupon the Conservatives bristled with rage, and
refused to allow their Lancashire champion to be
treated in such a disrespectful manner. The
Liberals groaned and cried " Oh, oh !" while the Con-
servatives testified, by repeated cheering, that Mr. Cross
should have his say. At last the Speaker had to interfere,
for the interruptions wore so loud and frequent that it was
impossible to hear what the hon. gentleman was speaking
about. He wound up his speech by quoting a passage
from one of Mr. Gladstone's orations in Lancashire, in-
tending it to act as a bombshell to the Liberal party. But
this attempt signally failed. Every few words of the
extract were loudly cheered by the Ministerial party, inter-
spersed with groans from their opponents. The expression,
" There is the Church of Ireland, there is the land of
Ireland," evoked sounds of approval and disapproval from
the respective sides of the house. The Conservatives—
who, whatever their numbers may be, are strongest in
their lungs—cheered lustily as a taunt that the difficulties
in Ireland would not be ended with the disestablishment
of the Church. On the other hand, the Liberals vocife-
rously applauded the speech, as indicating that they would
be ready to deal with the land question after the Church
was settled. Amid the discord of voices could
be heard distinctly the stentorian tones of Sir James
Blphinstone, which were quickly answered by the sharp
and piquant voice of the Chief Secretary for Ireland.
When Mr. Fortescue rose to speak, it was taken for
granted that he would wind up the debate for the night,
and members soon began to leave the House. The right
hon. gentleman was severe ou the leader of the Opposition
for advising the Irish clergy not to co-operate with the
Government, and pointed out that if they followed his
advice, it would be to their own (*advantage. When
Mr. Fortescue eat down, Mr. Ball Waled4ll44y moved
the adjournment of the debate, and fit Ur* wivt
ownigaibtikkurhimiato.

nousn OF COMAIONS, THURSDAY NIGHT.
The scene in the popular branch of the Representative
Assembly this afternoon reminded many of the exciting
Iteform debates during ISGG and 18G7, and the still more
recent discussions of last year. But there was this diffe•
rence—that whilst there were more members present in
the House, there were not so manystrangers congregated in
Westminster Hall. By half-past three, when nearly
four hundred members had assembled, not more than
fifty persons were to be seen in the cold and ckeerless
hall—a circumstance, perhaps, E owing to the fact that
lusst of the prominent men nowenter by another door, and
Flo not subject themselves to the popular gaze. Inside
the House everything bettOmed a great debate. Long
before prayers had been said, bath the Government and
Opposition benches were crowded with members, and it
was singularly amusing to watch the countenances of
regular li,l7,ituts of the House, who were ousted of their
accustomed places and had to take refuge in the galleries
above. The A rchbishop of Canterbnry occupied a scat
immediately behind the clock, having cn his left the
-Bishop of Oxford. Mr. Revcrdy Johnson sat by the side
of Lord Houghton, and among the other celebrities
present were Earl Russell, tl.t.t Earl of frarrowby, and Lord
Stratford de Rede:ifre. In the pews below were Dean Stanley,
Dr. Manning, and Mr. Jefferson Davis; and in another
part of the House was to be seen the handsome countenance
of the Rev. Newman Hall. The Ladies' Gallery was also
crowded with fair occupants, who occupied the time previous
to the commencement of business by repeated whispering,
which was distinctly audible to the reporters below. Mr.
Gladstone entered the House about 4.25, as usual slipping in
behind the Speaker's chair ; but his great opponent walked
up the floor of the House, both being unrecognised by
their respective parties. Sir 1Z ou ndell Palmer, who absented
himself from the Irish debates last year, took his seat
immediately behind Ministers. The long string of questions
upon the paper occupied nearly three-quarters of an hour,
and it was not until five minutes past five that
the clerk called the first order of the day—" The Irish
Church Bill." No sooner bad he uttered the words
than several Irish members on the Conservative side rose
for the purpose of presenting petitions against the second
reading. In one case an hon. member had about a hun.
dred of these protests tied together, and on his commencing
to read the names of the places from whence they
were signed, loud cheers burst from the Conservative
benches, follo'wed by ironical laughter from the Liberal
members..