The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-27 00:00:00

THE EARLDOM OF WILTES.

Among the new peerage claims which will come
before the Committee of Privileges in the House of
Lords during the present session is one which, if
admitted to be " made out" to their lordships' satis-
faction, will so far create a revolution in the British
peerage as to dispossess the Earl of Shrewsbury of
the honours of the premier earldom of England,
1,;,11 he liva au ieuctitly acquired by the decision
of the law. The claimant of the earldom of Wiltes,
or Wiltshire, is Mr. Simon Thomas Scrope, of
Danby-on-Yore, Yorkshire, who in the year 1858
presented a petition to the Queen, " praying her
Majesty to be pleased to cause a writ of summons
to Parliament to be issued to him by the title and
dignity aforesaid." Her Majesty was pleased to
refer the said petition, together with the Attorney-
General's report thereon, to the House of Peers on
the 7th of June, 1859, who on the same day referred
it to the Committee of Privileges to consider and
report upon it." The printed statement of the pe-
titioner recites, first, how the earldom of Wilt*a
was created by letters patent in 1397, in the 21st
year of Richard 11., in the person of Sir William
Scrope, Knight, eldest„ son of Sir Richard Scrope,
first Lord Scrope of BOlton, " to him and to his heirs
male for ever ;" and urges that, though the said earl-
dom has never been assumed since the death of the
first earl, sine prole, in 1399, yet that, as it was
granted with remainder, not to the heirs male of
his body, but' to him and his heirs male for ever,"
such remainder includes the issue of the earl's
next brother, who succeeded his father as
Lord Scrope of Bolton, and transmitted that
barony to his descendants. The direct line of the
seventh Lord Scrope ended in 1630, on the death of
the 11th lord (who was created Earl of Sunderland)
without issue male, when the right to the family
honours descended to the heirs male of Mr. John
Scrope, of Hameldon, Bucks, and Spennithorne,
Yorkshire (the sixth lord's second son), namely,
Francis Scrope, of Spennithorne, and of Danby-on-
Yore, Yorkshire, who, dying without issue, trans-
mitted his claim to the heirs male of his brother
Chrirtopher Scrope, from whom the present
claimant is directly descended in the fifth genera-
tion.- Besides the question above incidentally
alluded to, the petitioner in his " case" raises the
question whether the execution of the Earl of Wiltes
by the Duke of Lancaster, afterwards Henry IV.,
at Bristol, operates as an act of attainder, and
strongly urges on his own behalf that the judgment
under which that unfortunate nobleman was exe-
cuted contains no express forfeiture of his dignity
as a peer of the realm, and that the law is, that in
order to forfeit a peerage in tail, there must be
either a formal conviction for high treason, or an
act of attainder and deprivation striking at the
dignity by name. "In this case," says Mr. Scrope,
" the execution of the earl by the Duke of Lancas-
ter could not have the legal force of a direct attain-
der, while the entry on the roll makes no mention
of his dignity as an earl, and therefore could not
deprive his representatives of it. In support of
this curious, and interesting claim, Mr. Scrope re-
cites in his " case" an abundant store of learned
extracts from the rolls of Parliament, writs of sum-
mons, the herald's visitations in Yorkshire, the
entries in the parish registers in Thornton-
Steward and Spcnnithorne, family wills and mar-
riage settlements, bills in Chancery, pedigrees,
leases, releases, deed polls, charters, and sepulchral
monuments, extending down to the present time,
from the date when, according to no less an autho-
rity than Shakspere—
" The Earl of Wiltshire held this realm in farm."
The family of Mr. Scrope have been uninter-
rupted in their adherence to the Roman Catholic
religion, and, curiously enough, the records of the
fines levied on his ancestors as " Popish recusants"
are pressed by the claimant into his service 9.3
proofs of his position. They have largely inter-
married with the Meynells, Constables, Stria_
la
arexwelis and other noble Ronntn,
widely and deservedly
Claantdhso, liCe liffta.moridlise,s 1%,
and
respected in Yorkshire, as not unworthy represen-
tatives of a family as ancient as the reign of Ed-
ward the Confessor, and which, in the period of
300 years which intervened between the reigns of
Edward 11. and Charles 1., produced two earls, 20
barons, one chancellor, four high treasurers, two
chief justices of England, five knights of the te
and numerous " bannerets"—the highest garter,
and
order in the days of chivalry—besides `twomilitary
r
arch-
bishops and one bishop. It is worth ne.te that tes-
timony was borne to the knightly de scent of the
Scrope family, so far back as the yew,. 1386, in the
celebrated controversy between Sir i‘tichard Scrope
and Sir Robert Grosvenor for the eight of bearing
a coat of arms, when it was depose d and formally
established, according to Sir Harry - Nicholas, that
the then representative of the houss3 of Scrope was
" descended from noble and gen erous blood of
gentry and noble ancestry, who had always pre-
served their name and estate in d ignity and ho-
nour." The present claimant was, born in 1790,
and married to a daughter of the late Mr. John.
Jones, of Llanarth, by whom he has a' arviving
issue a son, and also two daughters, tho elder of
whom is the widow of the lat 4 Mr, Bi ,stard, of
Kitley.

(Continued from our first page.]
keep ourselves apart from the other nations of Europe—
(loud cheers from both sides of the house)—but that, when

future questions may arise—as future questions may arise
—we should be ready to act with others and to declare,
always in the most moderate and friendly terms, but still
firmly, that the settlement of Europe, the peace of Europe,
is a matter dear to this country, and that settlement and
that peace cannot be assured if it is liable to perpetual in••
terruption—(loud cheers)—to constant fears, to doubts and
rumours with respect to the annexation of this one coun-
try, or the union and connexion of that other—but that the
Powers of Europe, if they wish to maintain that peace, must
respect each other's rights, must respect each other's limits,
and, above all, restore and not disturb that commercial con-
fidence which is the result of peace, which tends to peace,
and which ultimately forms the happiness of nations.

(Loud cheers.)
Lord J. MANNERS said the cheers which rang through
the whole house when the noble lord made the observa-
tions with which he concluded his speech furnished a com-
plete justification of the hon. gentleman who had originated
that discussion. (Hear.) He could only say, for one, thdt
when he heard that portion of the noble lord's speech he
hailed it as an augury that her Majesty's Government
were about to return to those alliances and that friendly
co-operation with the other Powers of Europe which, in his
opinion, ought never to have been for one moment dis-
turbed. (Cheers.) The announcement just made by the
noble lord was of such paramount importance, and fraught
with such infinite gratification to all lovers of their coun-
try, that he was quite content to overlook anything that
could raise controversy in the previous parts of his speech.
(Hear, hear.) Having from the first taken a deep interest
in this question, he (Lord J. Manners) could not sit down
without expressing his thanks to the honourable mem-
ber for Bridgewater, the honourable baronet the member
for Tamworth, and the right honourable gentleman the
member for Stroud, for the bold and honest stand they
had made, and the thoroughly English spirit they had
manifested in bringing this subject under the consideration
of the house. (Hear.) The noble lord had given utterance
to that which would vibrate from one end of England to
the other ; and, if it became their duty to discuss this ques-
tion again, he trusted they would do so in the spirit of the
noble lord's concluding observations, and that the country
would feel they might still have confidence in the manner
in which our foreign policy was conducted. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT—I am unable to say how many times this
subject has been before the house during the last month,
but I am sure it has been more times than was convenient
for the house, or for the despatch of public business.
(Oh, oh.) I may not have been able to remember all the
speeches that I have heard made, nor to recollect all I hare
read of those which I have not heard on this subject; but
I have come to this conclusion, that those gentlemen who
have been so anxious to introduce this question to the house
have entirely avoided that which appears to me the most
important point—viz., what clear and direct interest this
house has in the matter under discussion. I contend that
we are here for the interests of England. (Oh, oh.) I
repudiate altogether the views of the hon. baronet the
member for Tamworth, whose interest is clearly of the
warmest with regard to Switzerland. I repudiate the course
taken by the hon. member for Bridgewater, who has taken
Sardinia under his particular care. (No, no.) Now that
Sardinia is proved to be the only Power that is not trust-
worthy in this matter, the hon. gentleman probably wishes
to discourage discussion. I repudiate the course taken by the
right hon. gentleman below me (Mr. Horsman), who appears
to find every question a suitable one for attacking the mem-
bers of the Government; I am here as the representative of a
great English constituency, who have no kind of business
with this question except in so far as it affects the honour
and interest of England. (Hear, hear.) I can conceive men,
being great Englishmen—and lam astonished that it has
not struck some of these ingenious gentlemen in their re-
searches on this question—viewing very favourably the
transfer of Savoy to France, and I will give one reason why
I think England should rather be glad at it. Sardinia
agrees to the transfer as a compensation to France. Has
it not been matter of talk among Englishmen and in all the
clubs during the last year that Sardinia has been placed in
the power of France, and that in consequence France has
been aggrandised by the acquisition of Sardinia in an
almost perpetual alliance ? But if Sardinia be able by the
cession of what may be called politically a worthless pro-
vince—(oh, oh)—understand me, I say " worthless" poli-
tically only—if Sardinia has compensated France by the
cession of that territory, and has, therefore, disengaged
herself from any feeling of what I may say created that
supremacy of France in consequence of what France had
done for her in the Italian war, then I say, on your own
principles'and on the policy of the noble lord, that Eng-
land should be glad that the score had been settled in this
manner rather than that for the future Sardinia should
consider herself greatly indebted to France, and bound by
a perpetual political alliance with that country. (Hear.)
France is now acknowledged even by the right hen, gen-
tleman near me to have acted in the transaction with per-
fect good faith. (Oh, oh I) I thought I was stating that
which was admitted on both sides of the house the last time
his matter was discussed. I heard it said by the right
hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli), though I see that gentlemen
opposite have no faith in his statements ; but that he did say
so I call the right hon. gentleman himself to witness. (Hear.)
This house, the English people, and the English press have
for the last nine months been exciting the English Go vetal-
meat to take that precise course which rendered the cession
of Savoy inevitable, and therefore we are not in a position
to complain of what has taken place. The noble lord has
•; told us 4n a manner perfectly charming, when we recollect
the somewhat hot despatches he has written, and the hotter
despatches gentlemen in this house have desired him to
write, that he has communicated with all the Powers
who were parties to the treaty of Vienna. It is a delight-

ful thing when all the Powers of Europe slumber at their
posts that the hon. member for Bridgewater should be
wide awake. (Hear.) No doubt gentlemen opposite fully
appreciate the course he has taken. But the noble lord
tells us that Austria in reply says—what ? Why, that no-
body cares about the treaty of Vienna, and when her pro-
vinces were wrested from her they were not taken by treaty,
but by force of arms, and tlitit Europe looked quietly on,
while the English Ministers almost applauded, and4the
English people welcomed with enthusiasm every intelli-
gence that was received of the destruction of an Austrian
army in Italy. (Rear.) Then not only is Lombardy taken
from Austria, but those pet duchies over which Austria
has exerted so much influence are also gone, and that
patrimony which is held by Austria to be sacred—the
patrimony of the Pope—is in part wrested from the Papal
Government ; and all this is transferred bodily to Sardinia,
which has tripled in extent since this time last year. All
this has been done with the sanction of the English Go-
vernment and the English people. (" No," from Mr. Bow-
yer.) Did hon. gentlemen opposite, or did the hon. member
for Bridgewater think that the Austrian Government would
join in a quarrel about Savoy when they had not a word to
• say when Austria was dismembered ? Then you go to
Russia, and you ask her to join you. Russia replies, "As
there is no question involved affecting the principles on
which Government rests, it does not concern us." And then,
if you look back seven years, is there any man such an idiot
as to suppose that the Russian Government would step out
of its path to join you upon a miserable question like this;
remembering the course you took with regard to Russia
seven years ago ? Then I suppose the noble lord appealed
to Prussia, and the Court of Prussia is particularly allied
to the Court of England, and is, for many reasons besides,
rather disposed to side with England. Well, what is the
answer of the Court of Prussia ? I am not sure that the
noble lord has stated exactly that answer to-night,
but the general impression is that, as the French
Government do not insist upon what are called the natural
boundaries of empires, Prussia has no interest in this ques •
tion, and does not desire to take any steps with us. Then
it comes to this, that no one has any interest in this matter
but Eneiand • and yet every one will admit that whatever
interest England has is necessarily smaller than the interest
'44„/ of the ether Powers of Europe, for it is sheer folly and child-
ishness to say that we who live in this island have a greater
interest in this question than the great nations which in-
-
habit the continent of Europe, and which are nearer to that
point where the boundary touches. But I ask, who in Eng-
land is so far interested in this matter ? I have looked in
vain to the English press to find any considerable alarm on
this question. There is, of course, some following of the
rumours spread in this house, and there is one newspaper
in London which is celebrated—l should rather say noto-
, xious—for a mixture of piety and ruffianism which has never
before been equalled in the press. (Laughter, and cries of
"Name, name I") Day after day that newspaper—(Name 1)
= endeavours to stir up the passions of this country by vitu-
perating everything connected with the French people and
their Government ; but beyond that I am at a loss to find
t, • any that express any serious alarm about the question. I
'. do not hesitate to express a suspicion that has filled my
Anind. It should be remembered that at this moment there
is in France, as there was in England 150 years ago, a great
question of dynasty. The partisans of deposed dynasties are
restless and unscrupulous ; and I am not at all certain that
y,., means have nut been taken by those partisans who had no
-awe friendship for England while they were connected with the
Government of France—means which do not come to the light
°E day—for the purpose of influencing the press and public opi-
Ilion in general throughout England against the existing Go-
'yen:anent of France. And this is done not with any good in-
. tentions towards England, but for objects good only to a family
or a faction who, when they were in power, were not able to
maintain themselves in it. and who have no claim whatever
upon the influence of this cou I try to re dace them in the posi-
tion they have lost. (Oh,
(!lt.) I cannot, I say, find any
one in England who really feels alarm upon this question,
and the only people who I believe are really in a state of
great trepidation are the right hon. mernber for Stroud
• (Mr. iforsman), the hon. member for Bridgewater (Mr.
Kinglake), and ono or two others, (No, no.) Well, that
is my opinion. (Laughter.) The right hen. member for
Str oud has this evening touched upon a question which it
is a great pity that he did not further explain. It occurred
in the right hon. gentleman's defence of freedom of speech.
-' Now, lam not about to contest that point. The house
allows me to use freedom in my sr eech. I shall not corn-
' plain of any one else using it. But the right hon. gentleman
1 has intimated by what he said, that diplomacy having failed,
?!) • parliament had power to do something that diplomacy had
-net. Well, what has parliament power to do wider such