The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-30 00:00:00

APIUL 1856.

*I, -, ; •
, 79,245, and in order to prevent the indonvenjenc lof such
a n'ornber of .prsons congregatfig at on pbbit, he Itrad
given directions with tilt approbation' of. Col. W Ilis, for
a band to play in Regents Park between the l ours of
Divine servtce. With respect th'the band in t e Vic-
toria-park, a communication( had , been receiv d from
Woolwich from Lieute,:ant-Colonel, piiksion,_ the
1 officer of one of the regiments' bf 'militia, Ole insthe
use of the baud to playin that:locality' 'He i tended
to answer tho letter of the gallant oflicer,,,,o4nk eg him
for the off,r; which it was his inteotinn to !accept.
I,
The only accommodation for the band, in-ICenftington-
qa,rdeus was the platform that, was used, on the days
that ladies and gentlemen promenaded Rotten.row. The
same was used, en Sundays, butit was intended o erect
a new one. With respect ta- the accomittedition of th—e`
public, if he found that the present arrangemenen were
not commensurate, be Omuta' propose that some tem-
porary building or tent should be erected. The re-
freshments that were sold were of the most wholesome
description, and consisted iif 'tea; coffee, ices, ilemon-
ade, ,soda. water, and ntner'idnikanxicating drinks.
AmoNst thosa present last Atriday, many of the no-
bility were-observed, and the itiftriber of persona On that,
occlsion amounted to 79.000:. persons: The superin-
tendent of the gardens waiter upon liim the following
Mon•la9 morning and inf•,rmed hfin that not a single
shrub had been injured. (Bear,-hear.) -7t was his in-
tk,it to proceed as he had begun, and the people had
sliowic by the way in which they had conducted them-
selves, that they were in every way worthy the pleasure,
which, he was glad to say, thyydoly appreciated. (Lotiti
cheers, and cries of " Hear, hear.")
Lord R. GROSVENOR asked, the •Prime Minister
whether any. of those imilividel.thLwho:.qomposed.the.
-.*
.:,
hand and 'were compelled to,li:iigatpthlir :Soo day' after-
noons to-the public, objeCtinerom crinscience or :other-.
wise, vrotild:be permitted to..petition the house, for any,
other authority, to be excused from such attendance ?
Lord.PALAIERSTON ';aid he was unable to answer
the 'question, but probably the Under Secretary for,
War, when l'e arrived,*wbuld be able to do so.

I4ord J; MANNERS. asked what was the usual
practice ? (Cries of " Order.")
The subje?t.thep dropped.
ASCENSION DAY.

In antswer to a quesltion,
Lord PALMERSIQINT said he proposed that the
house siwuld sit ou Thursday at two o'clock. (Cries of
"04 ! •

THE TREATY OF PEACE.
Tn answer to a question from Mr. LAYARD,
Lord PALMERSTON said it was usual to propose
an addresg to the , Orown on the conclusion of 'peace
when the Treaty, was-taken into consideratibn. '

' THE FIREWORKS. -
In answer to a question from Lnrd HOTHAIif,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had uo estimate for the expense of the firework. The
'expense for the fireworks in London would not exceed
6,000/., and he did not think it worth an estimate. If,
however, the house wished it he would produce one.

SLEEPING STATUTES.
Mr. L. KING obtained leave to bring in a bill to re•
peal e-trtain statutes which are sleeping and not in use.
DEPOPULATION OF IRISH RURAL
DISTRICTS.

Mr. M‘MAEION called attention to the subject-mat-
ter of a petition from certain inhabitants of the parishes
of KilbegnA and Ballynakill, in the county of Galway,
present last year, and, moved for the appointment of
a select committee to investigate its allegations. He
stated the particulars of the case, which related to the
".clearance" by an Irish landlord of the tenantry on an
estate which he hail Purcha-ed in the Encumbered
Estates Court. Hi S object, he said, was to devise means
for restraining the depopulation of rural districts in Ire-
laA, and he suggested some expedients by which this
abuse of a right might be checked.
Ths motion was seconded by Mr. BELLEW, who
stronly urged the impolicy, as well as cruelty, of
these wholesale clearances,- and called upon the Go-
vernment, in the name of humanity, to grant this'
inquiry.
Lord ' PALME RSTCN . _

-.....i 01 1., LA., _. admitted that the labouring
population ofireland wai not greater than its wants re-
quired, though it was injudiciously distributed ;, but;
although ,there were enaniyipteets of the country, in• which
the'accumulationof labour,was greater than was corn-
patible,with the interests' of the tenantry themselves, he'
thought those 'who exercised-the right belonging to them'
of clearing their estates, did not act consistently with
the public. interests: , Considering, however, that the
house was in the middle of the discussion of an im-,
portant question, he suggested that this subject should
be deferred to another' opportunity, and he moved that
the house do pass. to the orders of Ole day.
' Mr. DISRAELI concurred in this course, and, after
some further discussion, this amenOnent was agreed to.
The Whicwood Forest Bill pass through committee. '
The Bankers' Compositions ) was read a third
lttmran d7Posaideee•,,,,-1-srouir__--- ---:- 4e- - eeeetree-,W -: • "--"--1
jicto
'The motiort thgt *limns° teiliCead. the orcjers of . the
day was then agreed to.
' ' "A
THE FALL OF KA RS.—ADJOVRNED DE 3ATE.
The debate was resumed by
Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE, who reeretted that the hon.
member for Enniskillen had not chosen a more fit opportu-
nity fur the display of his abilities. The hon. and learned
gentleman ought to recollect that although it was an allow-
able artifice for an advocate to hide all parts of the case that
male against him, such conduct was not admissible in a
Senator. The hon. and learned gentleman had given a vote
on the subject of the Turkish loan which had more influ-
ence on the fate of Kers than any rhetorical displ y. It
mattered little that any hon. gentleman should make a pa-
triotic sp .ech, but it mattoree much that no vote should
be given in which Russia could rejoice. The hon. and
learned gentleman had entered into considerable detail with
regard Co the conduct of Lord Clarendon. He would not
follow him through all, but he would endeavour to show
that the chaegee against Lord Clarendon were founded on
entire misrepresentation. The first topic insisted on by
the hon. and learned gentleman was that General Williams
was sent out without any ostensible character. He was
sent out with all the ostensible character the English Go-
vernment could give, and Lord Clarendon left no effort un-
exhausted to obtain from the Turkish Government the re-
cognition necessary to his cadency ; if that had been ob-
tained the calamities might have been averted. The hon.
and learned gentleman said that as far as he understood
the quarrel between the ambassador and Col. Williams was
at an end in March, and that they then had come to an
unlerstanding.. Even if such was the case, it would have
been in itch to Lord Clarendon's credit that he had succeeded
in reconciling two such importene public servants. Lord
Clarendon saw that the quarrel existed, and did all in his
power to reconcile them ; but surely that could be no
charge against him. The hon. gentleman had complained
of the rebuke administered to Lord Stratford. What did
the hon. gentleman mean ? Did ho wish to have Lord
Stratford re •alle,l or not? Lard Stratford's abilities were
groat ; his knowledge of the people and the language was
unrivalled ; ho held the thread of affairs in his hand, and
no Minister in his senses would have attempted to recall
him ; but it was their duty to show him that the Govern-
ment was dissatisfied with his apathy, and his hostility to
General Williams. Lord Clarendon did so. The hon. and
learned gentleman had referred to the question of the
troops ; surely no man would have undertaken the respon-
sibility of recalling a single soldier from Sebastopal to
send to Asia Minor ; no Minister would have imperilled
the main object of the allies. The hon. and learned gentle.
man said Lord Clarendon sent three men and a doctor.
What did those three men aad the dootor do? Did they
not make an heroic resistance ? It was much to the credit
of Lord Clarendon that he should have chosen such a man
as General Williams. History showed how much a single
man had done : one man saved Syracuse—one man saved
Carthage. It was impossible to send numerical assistance,
so moral support was sent. The names of Lake and Tees-
dale would never be forgotten so long as norvic energy was
entitled to respect. The hon. and learned gentleman had
next referred to Lord Panmure ; the hon. and learned gen-
tleman had misquoted him and represented him to have
said that the cause was desperate. Lord Panmure said
no such thing ; on the letth of July he wrote :--rn" More-
over, from all the information which has reached me, I
have every revoa to believe the army of Batoum to bo in
a deplorable state. I know the contingen,t to be scarcely
organised ' • of the Bulgarian troops you can have no know-
ledge, endl pi mine that Beatson's Horse are as little to-
duced to control and discipline as your own troops. In
short, I am assured that it would be madness to attempt
to succour Brigadier Gen. Williams in this way." That
was very different from saying that General Williams's
situation was desperate. The noble lord the member for
Colchester (Lord J. Manners) blamed Lord Clarendon for
having encouraged General Williams to a desperate resist-
ance, but the hon. and learned member for Enniskillen
said, distinction to the Divan, and if Lord Panmure had
filled the office of Seraskior, and if Lord Clarendon had
held that department whicli is filled by the Turkish Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs, the hon. and learned gentleman's
speech would have been perfectly relevant to the question;
but it appears to me that for the most part it is wholly ir-
relevant as directed against her Majesty's Government.
The only way in which he was able to establish that the
Government is responsible for the proceedings at the siege
of Kars is by adverting the appointment of Gen. Williams
as British eommissioner to the Turkish army. Now, sir,
much criticism was made by him upon the powers of Gen.
Williams ; it was said they were indefinite —it was said
they were insufficient—it was said her Majesty's Govern
moot did not obtain from the Gov ern nment of the Porte
sufficient authority to enable hire to carry his views into
effect. It may be said that the Government erred in at-
tempting to interfere in the affairs of the siege of Kars.
They undertook the task, however, because they believed
the great importance attached to that operation ; and in
order to do all that was in their power to assist the Turk-
ish Government in the defence of that fortresi they de-
puted Gen. Williams to be the British commissioner. Ho
was a
man
about
whose ability, about whose energy, about
whose military capacity there wore not two opinions given
or existing in the house or amongst any body of English.
men who bad either read this blue book or the various
publications in which his conduct had been illustrated. No
dente., can exist as to the assistance sent to him ; it was no
blame at all to the Government of her Majesty that they
were unable to place him in the position which he ought
to have occupied, from the circumstance of their being
usable to arm him with eutherity which could only ema-
nate frtm the Porte. The French Government had the
same power of deputing a commissioner to accompany
General Williams, but they did not adopt that course.
They did not attach so much importance as the Go-
vernment of this country attached to the expedition
in Asia Minor ; they looped their desires and hopes to
the operations in the Crimea. Nothing then could be more
unjust, nothing could be leas consistent with the truth
than to impute to the Government of this country any ne
glect, any oversight with regard to the operations in Ash
Minor. All thet can be justly attributed to them is, that
in attempting to do ell that was in their power by resorting
to the only means that it was possible for them to take
viz., appointing a commissioner to act in concert with the
Turkish authorities in the fortress of Kars, they rendered

AittennielieS a party to the respoesibility inyoluedl in the
operations. But they were' tlnabla td send troops, anti they
sent other efficient assistance. General Williams, bybeing
0/4 limit _was placed in no anoutelottis partition ; he evas the
I.l3ritish Commissioner to the Terkish army. We sent also
a commissioner to act in caeceet faith the French beneral.
at his head-quarters; and the French Government did the
same with regard-tons. But the circumstance, of hie po-
sition gave to Gan. Williams an importance which ille'other
commissioner did not possess. • lle"wfa &man of atxtraor-
(finery 'energy and wonderful ability ; ho found airnself
obligeil to act in concert with -a Turkish general who was
deficieht in energy and ability, and who wanted hll the
most important qualities required for the command of a
besieged fortress. (lean) It was owing to that dirente-
stance that Gen. Williathee boridubt has attracted so ranch
-importance; it was owing to that circumstance that he
was compelled to assume- the command of the fortress of
Karp, and to form the army which defended it, Now, the
hon.. and learned gentleman makes the charge as if the
defence of Kars had rested with an English army. 'Batas
the Government at all responsible for the army that did
defend it ?; The hon. arid learned gentleman would have
it supposed that they are,' but noshing csu be more re-
mote front the troth. (Hear, hoer.) Now, I have etated
that, Irene the beginning, -the Government of her Me-
jesty had attached great importance to the opera-
tions in Asia Minor ; they had attached far more insport-
ance to those ,operations than our allies, the Ernperorof
the French er the King bf Sai'dinia. ' lid& witched
from the beginning. the proceedings. in Asia Mime. ;- but
we were not precluded from acting in concert with our
allied, nor did tte Orli attention to be much diverted
froth the 'Crinieni. (Hear,) Now, is it or is it not•true
that there is great justice in the view which has been
taketati the French Goterntuent, especially at the begin-
Mng of the-campaign,. mato the great importance of the
Crimea, and looking upon the operations in Asia Minor as
fim)3o dt secandaryadtailieet. And yet, any one who had
listened to the speech of theetteereeand learned gentlemen
yeaterday would have suppose" Asia Minor was the
Main theater' of' the War. 'pow, is there the, snisilest'
granted, in a military poiritof View, fe'rjustifying that doc-
trine of the hon. and learned gentleman ? Why, what are
the principles for coeducitirig a reel- ? -Why, the greetest
masters of the military artehavw leidait down, and this
was singularly illustrated by the tecticseofNapoleon in the.
bite War,' that you should strike at the heart of your
enemy, and leave the extremities to- take care of them-.
selves. (Hear.) Well, now what was the heart; what
was the centre of the power of Raisin, inthat region ? Can
anybody donbatliat it was Sebastopol and not Kars ? Can
anybody doubt that the French Government and the Eng-
lish Government were perfectly justified in making Sebas-
topol the mein, object of the campaign? (Hear.) Sir, I
cannot conceive that there can be any difference of opinion
upon &question, the 'answer to Which is so raapi fest to all
persons who judge either by the reason of the thing be- by
the authority Hof the opinions of great military judge 4. All
the military judges of the campaign agree that the main
object of it wae to hold Sebastopol ; we had staked otie re-
putation on the fall of that faetrese when" the niefotiations
last, year took plaCe at the Congress of. Vienna. Wliat were
the feelings of the country and of the house upon the: sub-
ject ? Were they not tnostorgent that no terms of Peace
should he accepted, while Sebastopol remained untaken ?
Therefore it seems to' me quite undeniable that the Govern-
ment 'would hatafailed in their first duty if they had With-.
'drawn troops from Sebastopol, sad so have weakened the
attack. upon that place, in order to secure •ft purely
secondary object, the safety of the citadel of Kars. Upon
that policy her Majesty's Government, in concert with their
ally, the Emperor of the French, consistently acted. When
Sebastopol had been taken, a movetnept was at once made
in the direction of Kars, but unfortunately it was then too
late. Ido not wish to go into the quest on of the compa-
rative advantage of the two roa is by Erearourn and Ku-
tnis, of which we heard so much last night. Unfortunately,
Omer Pacba was not in time to. relieve the place ; but the
great principle on which the campaign Nes conducted was
nevertheless unimpeachable. When the place was taken
when Russia was in possession of Kees—it was, according
to the hon, and learned member, in possession of the key of
Constantinople; and (said the hen. mornber) it was a gross
dereliction of duty to give such e.n a :vantage to the enemy
and lay open the road to the capital. lint what are; the
facts? If the road to Constantinople Was open to hire at
the and of November, what advantage did he make of it ?.j
We see that after the taking of Kaashe remained inactive,
and dill net advance one inch ; in fact, of. tide great suc-
aegi' not one atom tof use was made by General adonravieff,
'an officer of whose talents not a doubt exists. 13tit even
supposing that at the end of the winter another campaign
had ,been opened, toes-lint uee cauhl 'Genera Mouravieff
have then turned his possession pp Kate? .Thazoinmeni-
-Milieus with Kars are' and were much easier. to Turkey,
France, and triglancis thin *ere to Russia. The
distance which Russia, would have had to a:leveler Wanes'
ter give ilia *necessary Strength' to garrison, .at- Kars
weuldshavobeen enormads.. Thais-amortise laid,?taanariort
to Which. the Russian troops at Sebastopol had been ex-
po,ed decimated their ranks, and if the most autheitic
accounts which we have received. can be credited anade
havoc compared to which the losses of the English and
French armies have been as nothing. If, instead of send-
ing to Sebastopol, Russia had had to seed them to a
greater distance, in order to insure the success of Kars, it
is obvious that a most simpleoperatien at the beginning
of the spring would alone have been necessary in
order to !deprive Russia of this great advantage, and to
drive her back across' the Caucasus. In • tever w
L theferalaa crustrees& atlht; +:1 ere aler.
i bascule& • - t ar
continued to this spring, it taunt appear that the capture of
Kars, in a strategetical point of view, was of no importance
—that it was a matter of secondary consequence when com-
pared with the attack upon Sebastopol, and that when that
fortress fell the Allies would have had it in their power to
make themselves masters of the captured citadel. lam
therefore clear that, confining the matter within a military
point of view, it is impossible, for the hon. member to esta-
blish the impoitance of the loss of Kars. Ho may, how-
ever, say, ` I admit that in a military point of view, that
event cannot be shown to be important; but, politically
speaking. the case is otherwise; Russia took Kars from the
Ottoman empire to give her an opportunity, when she came
to negotiate, of insisting upon terms which she could not
otherwise have asked." Setting acid, the military, the
political aspect of the question is undoubtedly of great im-
portance, and I therefore wish to meet any arguments
which may be based upon it as distinctly as possible. Now,
the first plan for the pacification of Europe was discussed
and reduced into writing at Vienna iu the beginning of
Nov. last, by the ambassadors of foreign governments and
the foreign minister of the Austrian Government. The
plan thus sketched out was transmitted to Paris. for the ap-
probation of the French Emperor, whose concurrence it
received, and it was then transmitted to her Majesty's Go-
vernment for their coleideration and approval. It under-
went certain alterations not very substantial, and that plan '
so agreed upon by all parties may be seen in the protocols
now on the table of the house, whore it appears in the shape
of preliminaries of peace. All these preliminaries were
originally sketched out before Kars had fallen; certainly
long before the news of the capture of that fortress had been
received. The house is thus in possession of the plans of
pacification which were agreed to by the three governments
of Austria, France, and England—which were reduced into
writing, and received a definitive fo m before the capture of
Kars was thrown into the scale. I call upon hon. gentlemen
to compare these preliminaries with the treaty as it was
when it was signed by the plenipotentiaries at Paris, and
as it is now on the table of the house. After they have
gone through the preliminaries, item by item, article by
article, I defy thorn to show that the treaty falls short in
any respect of the preliminary articles ; ou the contrary,
I believe it to be the fact that the treaty goes beyond the
preliminaries, and that will be found to contain more
conditions favourable to this country, and imposing upon
Russia restrictions favourable to the future safety of
Europe. If the result of such an examination should con-
vince this house, as I am satisfied it will, that the treaty,
instead of falling short, goes beyond the preliminaries,
and if it be admitted to be the fact, which it cannot be
denied to be, that these preliminaries were conceived and
put into shape without any idea of the fall of Kern being
present to those who arranged their terms, I ask—l would
say any candid person, or any person putting himself into
a judicial frame of mind—but I ask any man who has any
idea of what reasoning is, if the capture of Kars can be
said to have had any political effect? (Hoar.) I will ask,
too, any gentleman to go through these protocols, which
are upon the table, and state where they show so much
as a trace of any concessions having been made by England
on account of the disaster at Kars. I positively affirm
that no such trace can be found, for, in truth, no such con-
cession was made. The doctrine which we laid down at
the very beginning that the integrity of the Turkish em-
pire must above all be asserted by us, was never lost
sight of, and it was felt that any bargaining about Kars
would not be consistent with our duty its this respect.
So far as the personal behaviour of the plenipotentiaries
was concerned, I have no doubt but that the frank and
straightforward manner which in the representative of
Russia gave up the point, and did not insist upon any ad-
vantage in respect of Kars, tended to the harmonious re-
sult of the entire negotiations. In fact, if honourable
members will refer to the treaty of peace, they will see
that nothing is said about equivalents ; it is not said, if
you restore such and such places we will restore
certain others. The article is simply as follows :--
" His Majesty the Emperor of all the Russian engages to
restore to his Majesty the Sultan the town and citadel of
Kars, as well as the other parts of the Ottoman territory of
which the Russian troops are in possession." I think, there-
fore—unless what I have sai I can receive some answer—
that the house will agree with me that whether we look to
the military or political importance of the capture of Kern,
the speech of the hon. and learned member (Mr. White-
side) is full of exaggerations. The noble lord the member
for Colchester (Lord J. Manners), not confining himself to
the question of the responsibility of the English Govern-
ment in consequence of the appointment of General Wil-
liams, said that we had prevented the Turkish Govern-
ment from taking such stops as it might have taken for the
relief of the place by our remissness in furnishing that Go-
vernment with supplies from the loan which was guranteed
by this Government and by France. As this is a matter
in which I have had some experience, perhaps the house
will bear with me for a few minutes while I state the ac-
tual facts of the case. The act, confirming the guarantees
of England, in addition to that of France, for the Turkish
loan, passed last session, having received the royal assent
on the 14th of August last. The management of the terms
of that loan was placed by the Government in the very
competent hands of Sir A. Spearman, who acted as com-
missioner for her Majesty's Goveihment under the Turkish
ambassador, in whom the supreme arrangement of the
matter, of course, rested. The loan was contracted for on
the 20th of August. Of course, immediately after the
terms of the loan had been arranged, a necessary interval
had to be allowed before the payment of the first icstal-
ment. The interval, however, was a short one, for on the
25th of August 100,0001. sterling were delivered to the
War Department for shipment to Turkey. On the 31st of
August another 100,0001.,t., and on the 10th, 13th, and 15th
of September three other sums of 100,0011, each, were de-
livered over to the 'War Department. These facts, which
appear in returns upon the table, shove that there was
no remissness on the part of her Majesty'n Government.
Sir, when the French Government agreed with our own
to make a joint guarantee on behalf of the Turkish
which. was willingly acquiesced
it was made an express stipulation on thepert
Government,
should not be pada over at once
o itf tbhye
us,E tetpbearto rt:
em ministry.on 0y
to the Turkish Government, but that in the first place a
security should be taken that it would be applied to the
purposes of the war, The loan was guaranteed expressly that