The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-15 00:00:00

tress was owing to-the-want of foresight on the part of
her Majesty's Government."
SUPPLY.
The house then went in committee of supply.
The following votes were agreed to :-
4,050/. for the various establishments is Bermuda,
7,3751. for the support of ecclesiastical establishments
in the North American provinces.
4.7131. fir the Indian Department in Canada.
The next vote was for 24,7281., for the discharge of
the salaries, &c., of the governors and others of the
col( nice.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to many of the items in
this vote as being too much for the duties performed, and
moved that the vote be reduced by 3,5001. for the gover-
nor of Jamaica, and 1,8001. that of the governor of
Western Australia.
Mr. LABOUCHERE defended the vote. The co-
lonial estimates had been reduced one-half since 1850.
• Lor 1 J. RUSSELL supported the vote for Jamaica,
and said he thought it would be unwise to make any al-
terations in it, considering the peculiar circumstances
under which it had been made, having reference to the
disturbed state of that colony.
Sir 3. PAKINGTON called attention to the oasis-
,ion from the colonial estimates of the salaryi of the
Bishop of New Zealand. On the appointment of
the right reverend gentleman to that office it was ar-
rauged that he should be paid a salary of 6001.
a year. Good faith had not been kept with the right
rev, prelate, and he was now left without an income
either from this country or New Zealand, and had been
deprived of his 6001. per annum since 1853.
After a desultory discussion, in tie course of which
Mr. HADFIELD and other hon. members took part,
Mr. LABOUCHERE condemned the introduction
of extraneous subjects in discussing the estimates. He
was of opinion Bishop Selwyn had no further claim on
this country for the continuance of his salary, and he
doubted if the rev. prelate ha :l been placed in a wrong
position in consequence of its withdrawal.
From what he knew of New Zealand, the
inhabitants of that colony were in a position to amply
compensate him in return for the great advantages and
benefits he had conferred on the inhabitants of that
colony. He passed a lengthened eulogium on the ex-
emplary, zealous, and pious conduct of the right rev.
•
prelate.
Lord J. MANNERS contended there was a distinct
promise on the part of this country to continue the salary
to the Bishop of New Zealand. It was a deliberate act on
the part of the Government to grant this sum, and with-
out the solicitation of Bishop Selwyn.
Lord J. RUSSELL said this was not a violation of
faith as was supposed by those who had adddressed the
house. At the appointment of the bishop be was informed
that the salary was not to be considered a permanent
one, and it.wa,s during the time the right hon. member
for Droitwich was Secretary for the Colonies that, under
certain circumstances, the amount was omitted from the
vote?, and had not been renewed, in consequence of a
pledge given to the house on a former occasion.
Sr J. PAKINGTON defended his conduct at the
period referred to, and said that he had no idea that in
anything he said or did at the time referred to he was
consenting to the withdrawal of the grant in question
The committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority
The original vote was then agreed to.
On the motion that a sum not exceeding 24,3001. be
granted to her Majesty to defray the salaries of the stipen-
diary magistrates in the West India colonies and Mauritius,
Mr. WILLIAMS complained that the subject of the
salary.of the Bishop of New Zealand had been introduced
into the discussion upon the last vote. He had now to
complain of the present vote, as he considered it monstrous
that the taxpayers of this country should maintain a staff of
stipendiary justices for colonies which were no longer of
any use.
Mr. LABOUCHERE explained that, at the time of the
emanlipation of the slaves in the British colonies, it became
indispensable to appoint stipendiary magistrates to carry
out the system of apprenticeship, but that no appoint-
ments had since taken place Government allowing the va-
care'es occasioned by death to remain unfilled. He hoped
this explanation would satisfy his hon. friend.
Mr. WILLIAMS would not, after the explanation, divide
the house. He was, he said, often taunted for not dividing
the house upon the subjects of these votes, but the last
division showed that the House of Commons was indiffe-
rent how the public money was spent.
The vote was then agreed to.
The following votes wore also agreed to : -
For the civil establishments on the west coast of Africa,
10,230/.
For the Government of St. Helena, 10,8561,
For Heligoland, 960/.
Oa the motion for granting 2,9311. to defray the ex-
penses of the Government' of the Falkland Islands,
Mr. WARNER inquired if the settlement was worththe
cost ef its maintenance ?
Mr. LABOUCHERE replied that the settlement was
very serviceable to the country, and he was the other day
informed by the late governor that it was a place of great
increasing resort to traders and to persons engaged in the
whale fishery.
The vote was then agreed to.'
Oa the motion for granting 14,5861. to defray the
;barges of the Emigration Board,
Mr. SPOONER said that if they had paid more atten-
tion to keep people at home instead of sending them abroad
he thought that they would have acted upon a system of
sound policy. He thought that it was a great mistake to
encourage emigration at the present time.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the object of this com-
inislion was to direct the emigrants is a manner which was
most advantageous to themselves and to the place to which
they were to go, and also to correct the evils which had
been found to result from a mere voluntary system of emi-
gration Coolies were imported from India to the Maud-
tat., and it was most important that this emigration
eiseuld ho under the control of the commissioners, who were
most able public servants.
Mr. HUTCHINS asked whether this sum was to be a
permanent charge upon the revenue ?
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that, of course, the charge
must vary according to the amount of business which came
under the control of the board. The emigration from this
country amounted last year to 176,000 parsons, and he
thought it would be premature to alter the system.
Captain SUOBELL said that there was no emigration
station between Plymouth and Liverpool, and he would
suggest the establishment of one at Bristol.
Mr. L 1 BOUC FEE RE said that the suggestion was quite
new to him, and he could only say that he would consider
it

a year, and-they had besides a resident vice-comsnl, with
2,000/e a year. At Naples they paid an ambassador 3,6001.
a yeir, and a consul 500/. a year ; and at Lisbon there
was a consul who-received-60M a year, and a vice-consul
who did all the work, at 3001. a year. He was really
anxious, for the honour of the country, to have the amount
of the present vote fairly distributed and judiciously ap-
plied among the consular body. He then came to the sub-
ject of superannnations and compensations. With regard
to superannuations he had nothing whatever to complain
of, except that they were in very many cases by far too
low in amount, considering the salary enjoyed and the age
of the recipient. But the amounts granted as compensation
were vary large, and in many cases wholly unnecessary and
uncalled for. The former consul at Tripoli was awarded
8501. a year as compensation for the abolition of his office ;
and in that very year in which the office was abolished a
new consul-general was appointed, with a salary of 6001.
a year, which had since been raised to 8001. There was a
case of a similar description at Venice. A gentleman 43
years of age held the office of consul-general, with a salary
of 1,2001. a year. His office was abolished, and he received
6001. as compensation. The reason for that compensation
was the abolition of the office, yet in the same year another
consul was appointed, with a salary of 7001. a year. But
the worst case was that at Chagres, where a gentleman
only 38 years of ago had been compensated with a pension
of 1,000. a year on the abolition of his office; but, not-
withstanding that abolition and compensation, a new con-
sular establishment had been created, comprising a consul-
general, with a salary of 1,6001. a year, allowances 9971.,
and a vice-consul at 5001. a year. He wished to know
how it was that when an office was abolished and compen-
sation given, another consul was immediately appointed,
with a considerable salary ? With respect to the amounts
granted for! superannuation, he theught they were not
sufficiently large to attract the most efficient men to the
service ; and there was this farther injustice as regarded
the consular department—that those employed in it
had to submit to a deduction of 5 per cent. on their salaries,
while those in the diplomatic department received their
salaries without any such deduction. Thus a consul who
had served 25 years at a salary of 5001. a-year, would have
625/, taken from him in the shape of deductions, and at
the end of that period would only be entitled to the paltry
allowance of 250/. a-year. With regard to the question of
patronage, he confessed he put great faith in the new re-
gulations of the Earl of Clarendon, if they were properly
carried out, on the subject of examinations for consulate
offices. They would then secure a supply of consular ser-
vants who would speak the language of the country to
which they were sent. With respect to the distribution
of appointments hitherto, an analysis of the returns would
speedily show who were the parties appointed to positions
with salaries of 1,8001., 1,6001., and 1,2001. a-year, and
who got the situations which ranged from 2001. to 5001. a
year. He would suggest the adoption of the French sys-
tem, by which they secured a constant supply of pupil
consuls, and those were regularly advanced in the service.
He thought the present system of paying consuls by fees
was excessively injurious, and he hoped the Government
would take the subject into consideration with a view to
abolishing it. The whole of the fees last year amounted
only to 31,0001., and if he bad had the power of doing so,
he would hate moved the increase of the vote to 200,0001.
ou condition that those fees were abolished, because he
contended that our consuls should be our protectors
abroad, and not tax collectors. He thought, also, there
were far too many foreign consuls in-the service of the
Government. No matter how honest or how well dis-
posed they might be, it *as impossible they could feel
for the interests of England as an Englishman would.
With respect to consul merchants, he thought it was
most important that ns consul should be in business.
in cases where they were at present it was a constant
source of jealousy and dissension, and it had, besides,
the effect of frequently preventing our consuls obtain-
ing information so early as they otherwise would have
done. If a consul failed in trade his official position was
immediately compromised, and where they ware merchants
they frequently had great temptations to advance their
private emoluments in many ways, to the prejudice of
other traders. He thought it would be much wiser to pay
them proper salaries. They would then have an undivided
interest in their °nice and the country. Tho case of the
Mermaid was a notorious instance of the manner in which
the private interest of consuls clashed with the public.
That vessel had 400 e 03. in gold dust on board, besides
30,0001. worth of wool, and ou her way home touched at
Pernambuco for fresh vegetables and water. The consul,
who had the power to do so, ordered the ship into dock to
be repaired, alleging that she was unseaworthy. Captain
Bailey and the passengers remonstrated, as they were per-
fectly satisfied with the ship. The consul threatened that
if Captain Bailey refused compliance he would report his
conduct, and deprive him of his rating. Captain Bailey
aid sail for this country without any repairs being made,
and arrived safely at Liverpool. The consul carried out
his threat, and an inquiry was ordered by the Board of
Trade, which resulted in the decision that Captain Bailey
had acted very properly in the course he had adopted, by
which he saved 10,0001., which would otherwise have gone
to the consul, who was entitled to 2i per cent. upon the
gold dust had the ship been repaired. The continuance of
such a system as this must be highly detrimental to the
public interest. He hoped the three or four points he had
mooted would be considered by the Government, and such
men would be appointed consuls as would be most likely
adequately to serve their country.
Mr. KINNAIRD entirely agreed with his hon. friend
in the propriety of bringing forward this motion. A coun-
try whose trade is so extended as ours ought to have able
men to represent it—men trained for the purpose, and
brought up in habits of diplomacy.. Had such a system as
this been established before the beginning of the late war,
he believed the Government would have been in possession
of much more valuable information than they possessed.
He believed there was great room for amendment, and
hoped the matter would not escape the earnest attention
of the Government.
Mr. W. S. LINDSAY thanked his hon. friend for the
very clear and able speech in which he had brought for-
ward this question. Trade was every day becoming more
and more developed, and it was of great importance to have
thorough representatives of our commercial interests in the
different ports of the world so as to advise our merchants,
who were now engaged in an ardent competition with the
United States of America. Upon the whole, though some
consuls might be too highly remunerated, he thought the
consular body ill-paid. It was of great importance to have
the best men, and he hoped a committee or a commission
would be appointed to inquire into the, subject. (Haar.)
Lord PALAIERSTON concurred with his hon. friend,
who hail begun the discussion, in the importance of the
various duties which the consul had to perform. His hen.
friend had very well explained those duties. The hon. gen-
tleman who had just sat down (Mr. Lindsay) spoke of
periodical reports as to the resources of trade and other
circumstances of the col inies in which they were placed.
Nuw, it had been his (Lord Palmerston%) duty for many
years to peruse these reports, and he felt bound to bear
testimony to the ability with which they were drawn up.
Th.se reports were invariably sent to the Bsard of Trade,
end were not, in consequence of their being so voluminous,
laid before the house. Hie hon. frien l objected to the sys-
tem of fees, but he was of opinion his hon. friend entirely
mistook the nature of those fees. Originally consuls were
paid by fees on shipping, but in 1826 or 1827, an act was
passed, placing those fees on a different footing, and giving
salaries instead. The fees were now only levied for th pur-
pose of enabling the consuls to pay the expenses of their
office clerks, &a It was but in comparatively few cases
that any fees went to the consuls merelyas emoluments to
them. As to the appointment of consuls, his hon. friend
&sewed to think improper selestions had been made. He
could most sincerelystate that d aring his timeat the Foreign-
office he had made the best appointments in his power. He
did nor, think the duties to be discharged in the consular office
required any considerable previous education or training. A
man of good sense would be able, with a little application,
to perform the functions of consul. What had occurred
in that house illustrated the change of opinion which had
taken place hare upon this question. For a great many
years, whenever the matter of the appointment of consuls
was discussed, hon. members had urged the selection of
commercial mon. Now that was objected to. The only
way to get a commercial man was to appoint one who was
there, or hail bean engaged in commerce. He was inclined
to think that though there was an economical advantage
in appointing commercial men as consuls, yet that there
were many political considerations which might intervene,
private connections, and other circumstances that would
tender them more or less liable to be visited by the Govern-
ments under which they resided. A 9 a general rule he
would admit that it was not desirable to employ merchant
consul., but the house must not forget that they procured
the business to be done more economically through mer-
chant consuls, and, therefore, if they were determined not
to employ merchant consuls, they must increase the sala-
ries of consuls who were not merchants. He felt bound to
say that, as far as ho knew, merchant consuls had never
abueed the influence which their appointmentsgave them,
nor were they less assiduous ita maintaining the rights of
their countrymen. In respect to vice-consuls that was an-
other and a different matter. His hon. friend objected to
the employment of foreigners. But the very cases he had
mentioned showed the necos%ity of none others being em-
ployed but foreigners under the present system. The salary
was only 1001. or 1501. a-year. The rule was, that where
British subjects were residents in a place, and were duly
qualified, they should have a preference, but where suck
were not to be found, the house would see that, ata salary
of 1001. or 1501. a-year, it was almost impossible to find
any one but a trader to perform those duties. The hon.
gentleman . s did the salaries of consuls wore not pro-
perly distributed, and pointed to Ma grid. Well, the consul
there received 200/. a-year, but was, in fact, only a con-
sular clerk, who corrected the returns sent from other con-
suls to Madrid. But, as to the objection to the pay of con-
suls in Naples and Lisbon, there was no force, for these
were ports to which much British commerce was sent, and
the duties of consuls were consequently heavy and impor-
tant. His noble friend at the head of the Foreign-office
hate employed a system of examination for consuls, and
had sant out a circular to our consuls requiring answers to

. 2G9
.--2 6

Mr. ADDERLEY said that S 3 many dreadful accidents
had eccurrod with respect to passenger ships that no one,
ho believed, would object to any expense which might be
necessary to carry the provisions of the Passengers' Act
into off.-c`. He must, however, complain that there was no
diruinuqon in the charges for the Emigration Board at
Park-street. Some of the colonies now sent funds to this
country for the purpose of obtaining emigrants, and those
c _denies should employ agents without going to the Emi-
gretion Commissioners.
Mr. LA.BOUCHERE said that as long as the colonies
were willing to resort to these commissioners, he did not
think it would be advantageous to alter the system.
Mr. SPOONER objected to any support being given to
emigation.
Sir S. NORTHCOTE thought that the number of the
commissioners might be reduced.
After a few words from Mr. WARNER and Mr. WIL-
LI A NIS,
Sir J. rAKINGTON said. he thought that the vote in
future years might be diminished. Formerly one-half of
the Find found in Australia was applie I to the purposes of
emigration, but now- it was at the absolute disposal of the
colonies. With regard to the officers of the emigration
(Ace, ha coel.l only say that they deserved all praise for
the in inner in which they discharged their duties. (Hear.)
Mr• LABOUCHER.E said that there were causes in
operation -which he believed, would reduce the business of
the commissioners' but what he wished to do on the pre-
sent occ (sign was to deprecate a hasty vote on the subject.
After a few words from Mr. FIADFIELD and Mr. M.
CiIA3IRERS, the vote was agreed to.
• A, vote of 13,0001., to defray the expanse of the support
of captured slaves, was agreed to.
On the vote of 11,039/. to defray the expense of the
mixed commission for the suppression of the traffic in slaves,
Mr. BIGGS' said that he thought it was an instance of
national hypocrisy that they could vote 20,0001. for the
prevention of slavery on the African coast, at the same
time they ignored its very existence in Constantinople.
There were 50,000 slaves there, brought from Trebizond,
Tripoli, Tanis, Cairo, and Alexandria, and the horrors
that were practised amongst them far exceeded those of
the middle passage, the sins which were committed being
frequently similar to those which - brought such a fearful
deetruction upon the cities of Sodom and Gl-oinorrah. The
only way of getting rid of these abominations was to esta-
blish a Christian nationality in the east of Europe. From
an intimate knowledge of Eastern affairs ho was convinced
that the civilisation of Turkey was only skin deep, and
that Turkey was now as far behind the civilisation of the
19th century as she was when she broke into Europe be-
hind the civilisation of the 14th century. He should
take an etily opportunity to bring before the house the
question of the social condition of Turkey.
Oa the vote of 167,4931: for consular establishments
abroad,
Mr. WISE said that the . subject of consular establish-
ments.was one of vary great importance. Considerable im•
!movements had been made with regard to them in 1831,and
the subject had since been frequently discussed in commit-
tees. I u 134) a committee was appointed to inquire into
the subject of the diplomatic and consular services. They
made a report on the diplomatic service, and recom-
mended that the subject of our consular establishments
should be inquired into the following year by a commit-
tee. That committee had, however, never been appointed.
He trusted that inquiry would be made into the subject.
The duties of our consuls were of the most important and-
resnonsibla character. The consuls in the Levant, for in•
stance, had both civil and criminal jurisdiction, and hav-
ing to perform such important- duties, it was necessary
that this
,country should have men of high principle and
independent. character for their consuls there. He trusted
the Government would propose a commission to inquire
into the state of the consular establishment in the Levant.
tiedid not mean in any way to cast any reflections on our
consuls in the Levant; there were many of them men of
the highest abilities and attainments. There was no doubt,
however, that there were many of our consuls incapable for
the position; they held. He should do wrong if he omitted
to mention, as' instances of men of merit and ability in the
consular service, the names of Mr. Grant and Mr. Calvert,
who, with many others; hadiserved the country so well in
the last war. He (Mr. Wise) thought that charges for
passports and the like fees ought to be abolished, even
t the salaries of the consuls had consequently taouga
pro-
portiocately to be increased. The hon. gentleman referred
the o passages
lE o f from
Carlisle'sthe pt sa
no
tfi theD r.
Sandwich'sTimas'
Com m"
i Siegessioneori
Ke.ea,” to show that the reform of our consular system was
much ace 'a I. With respect to the financial part of the
question, the total sum proposed by the Government for
our consular service this year was 167,0001. He did not
object to that amount, but to the way in which it was dis-
tributed. The whole number of persons employed in the
consul ir department was 533. There were 27 consuls-
general, 119 conuls, 228 English vice-consuls, and the re-
mainder were foreign vice-consuls. Since 1848 there had
been a considerable increase in the number of consuls,
some of. that increase having naturally arisen :out of the
increaso of our trade with China and elsewhere._ Be,
at the AIMS time, it struck him that some of our cotouls
were unneec.mtry
and might be removed altogether. For
instance, at Constantinople, where our embassy cost us
49,0001. a-year, he saw no necessity for a consular esta-
blishment in addition, which cost us 2,0.01. or more.
They had an embassy at Madrid at an' expellee of 6,0t01.

Mr. DISRAELI said the fact that the duties of the
counsel to the Irish office wore now done for half the salary
that was paid when the Government of the Earl of Derby
came into office, showed the wisdom of the policy which
they had adopted, and which hal let to this desirable re-
sult.

Lord NAAS entered into some details as to the changes
in the Irish office which had been effected under the late
Administration, and vindicated the dismissal of Mr. Batty.
;kA discussion ensued on the number of superannuations
on the list, in the course of which Captain SCOBELL said
them were 300 persons on the list of superanuuation many
of whom retired at 32 years of ago, and asked why these
gentlemen were not absorbed in 'the Government offices ?
Mr BOWYER suggested that in future the superan-
nuation list should be divided into sections, instead of
bring voted in one sum and at once.
Mr. WILLIANIS withdrew his amendment, and the
vote was agreed to.
The next vote was for 2,270/. for relief to Toulonese and
Corsican and other emigrants, which was ultimately agreed
to, after Mr. WILSON had explained the grants wore origi-
nally made under acts of Parliament for two generations.
2,0001. were then asked for to defray the expenses of the
vaccine establishment.
Mr. STAFFORD asked for an explanation why a violent
attack on vaccination by Dr. Gibbs had been printed by
the Government.
Mr. BROTHERTON sail that the committee had re•
fused his application to print this pamphlet, but in conse-
quence of a notice on the books by the hon. member for
Finsbury that it should bo printed, the printing committee
consented to it, and it was printed.
Mr. MICHELL defended .the statements contained in
the pamphlet complained of, and said ho could prove vac-
cination had a tendency to produce death rather than pre-
vent it. He advised hon. members to read and become
acquainted with the subjacts it contained.
Mr. GROG AN condemned the house turning this
pamphlet into ridicule, and said that it contained facts
with reference to vaccination that every member ought to
read. If Mr. Cowper had done so he would move the
repeal of the Vaccination Bill.
Mr. COWPER said that if it had not been for the state-
ment of the learned doctor (Dr. Michell) ho should have
thought the miter of the pamphlet in question was raving
mail. (Laughter.)
The vote was agreed to.
The next vote was for 3501. for defraying the expenses of
the Refuge for the Destitute.
Mr. CO WAN wished to know if the Edinburgh Refuge
for the Destitute was not entitled to Royal support equally
with the one in question ?
Mr. WILSON sail that this refuge was situate at
Delston, and was for the support of 25 convicts, females,
removed pi iecipally from the metropolitan prisons. He
could not answer the question of the honiurable member,
but advised him to bring the question before the house for
a specific grant.
The vote was then agreed to.
A sum of 4,000/. was next agreed to for the support of
Polish refugees and distressed Spaniards.
A sum of 4,3711. was voted for miscellaneous allowances
formerly defrayed from the civil list.
On the proposal to vote a suns of 2,5 51. for infirmaries
in Ireland,
Mr. WILLIAMS considered that there was no necessity
for this vote, now that the poor-law had been established
in Ireland.
Mr. WILSON explained that the vote proposed was
given under two old acts of Parliament, and was to be
discontinued as soon as the present trusts had ceased.
After a few words from•Culonel DUNNE,
The vote was agreed to.
A sum of 1,295/. was next proposed for the support of
the Foundling Hospital, Dublin.
Atter some discussion, in which Mr. Blackburn, Mr.
Williams, Mr. Horsman, and Mr. Grogan took part,
Mr. HASTIE moved that the vote be reduced by the
sum ef 1291. lOs., being 10 per cent. on the amount, on the
ground that the people of Ireland ought to support their
own foundlings, and not make them a charge upon this
country.
After some discussion the committee divided, when
there appeared—
For the amendment ~ 32
Against it
187
Majority against the amendment .••.--159
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote proposed was 11,790/, for defraying the
expenses of the House of Industry, Dublin.
Mr. A. HASTIE proposed a reductioe in the vote of
1,1791., in accor lance with the recommendation of the com-
mittee, that a reduction of 10 per cent. should be made.
Mr. WILSON defended the vote, stating that the Oe•
vernment had already acted on the recommendation of the
cesunaittEe to a certain extent; and that, if they had not

a great number of questions bearing on -matters to which
his hon. friend had adverted, and when answers and infor-
mation had been received, he would be prepared next ses-
sion to agree to the appointment of a select committee to
take into consideration the whole of the consular system.
As to the question that the Government should have ap-
pointed consuls who ought to have given information be-
fore 'the breaking out of tho war concerning Russia, he
could only say that the consuls at Odessa and at Taganrog
had,. in his opinion, discharged their duties.. There were
none in the Crimea, because the Russian Government
would not permit any to reside there. But the house would
recollect that consuls could not act as spies, but could only
forward information, properly accessible, to their Govern-
ment—accessible by open• means. The consuls at Odessa
and Taganrog had forwards I much valuable information
to the Government regarding the resources of the country,
and all other matters properly within the scope of their
knowledge. As to the high salaries of consuls-general, his
hon. friend must recollect that such offices could not have
been abolished without compensation. When a consul-
general was aboli had, as in Tripoli, a salary of 8001. a
year was given instead of 1,6001., and the same was the
cage in Venice. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILLIAMS said that the young men who were se-
lected for the duties which they had to perform were, on the
whole, fully paid. He found that in Turkey there were 42
consul, who received amodget them in salaries the sum
of 15,6351., and in fees, 5,7351., making together, 21,3701;
and these consuls were in addition to those employed in
Egypt. and at Tripoli, and Tunis, who received about
receivingl3,ooO/. In the United States there were only 13 consuls,
of their ex"". w year, and to that country the great mass
Ports eire sent. At CoLstantin. ir •he found
they had a consul-general at 1,5001. a year, a vice consul
at 4001., and another vice-consul at 3001., besides having
another consul at Scutari. The hon. member complained
that in Spain there were two new appointments of consuls
—one at Sun!, and the other at Illilo—at salaries of 400/,
a year. There matters req, irtd to be fully inquired into.
In an"wer to a question from Mr. BELLEW,
Lord PALMERSTON was understood to say that it was
not the intention of the Government, either directly or in-
directly, to interfere with the internal affairs of Madagascar.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the vote of 25,00 1. for defraying the extraordinary
disburse vents of the embassies and missions abroad,
Mr. BO WYEFS complained of the present system of .

THE SAO, LONDON, TUESDAY- EVENING, APRIL is, 1856,

attaches in the diplomatic service. These attaches, upon
_whom' the public service very materially depended, ought
t) be well paid, and care should be taken that none were
appointed who were not capable for the position. The
attaches ought to be put through a course of international
law, and be well-read men, so that when a Minister re-
quired information he would be able to turn to them for
it ; but Ministers could not expect this from young area
who were not paid anything. He thought the diplomatic
service required to be thoroughly reformed.
Lord PALMERSTON said the subject to which the hon.
and learned member alluded, of paid and unpaid attaches,
belonged to the diplomatic establishment. The expenses of
the diplomatic establishment were defrayed outof the charge
created upon the Consolidated Fund, and about 160,000/.
a year covered all the expenses of salaries and retired al-
lowances, wh'ele could not bo exceeded. But the subject
referred to by the hon. and learned member was very dif-
ferent to this, and he apprehended that the attaches which
he referred to in Turkey were the young men sent there for
the purpose of becoming British interpreters of Turkish,
and to supersede the Turkish dragoman hitherto employed.
The Vice-Chancellors of Oxford and Cambridge had each
the privilege of recommending a young man, selected by
them, who were sent to Turkey to become interpreters, and
these are the attaches here mentioned. What the hon, and
learned member said against the system of unpaid attaches
had some force. There were two classes of attaches, paid
and unpaid. They began as unpaid, lend after a period of
time they were promoted and became paid attaches. It was
quite true that the diplomatic service did not hold out those
brilliant prospects which young men anticipated who were
anxious to enter it. Theyspent a long time, &c., as unpaid
and paid attaches before they became secretaries of legation.
He did not agree that the attaches should be well read in in-'
ternational law and history in order that the Minister could
turn to him for assistance. International law and historical
facts were necessary to enable the Ministers at foreign courts
to perform their duties, and ho must assume that they had
risen to their posts through a long period of time, and that
they were better able to perform their duties than those
young men who ware just appointed, or they would not be
fitted for the responsible duties to which they had to attend.
Mr. BOWYER explained that many persons were ap-
pointel to the pest of Minister without having gone
through any training in international law whatever.
Mr. EWART reminded the hon. and learned gentle-
man that there was now established a system of examina-
tion for public offices, and that for the future attaches would
be examined in history, languages, and international law.
Mr. WISE regretted that the salaries of the ambassadors
were still paid out of the Consolidated Fund instead of
coming before the house in the estimates. He wished for
an explanation of an item of 1,463/ put down as lost by
Ambassadors by exchange.
Mr. WILSON explained that the English Ambassadors
at foreign Courts had frequently to make large disburse.
ments for the public service; and it often happened that
when they drew bills for that purpose the rate of exchange
was against them, and therefore it was but fair that they
should be reimbursed for the loss they sustained.
Mr. WILLIAMS did not see why we should have Mi-
nisters at six of the petty Courts of Germany. He might
pass over Hanover on account of the relationship existing
between the King and her Majesty; but that excuse did
not apply to Wurtemberg. He believed that our first
connection with that kingdom was when a princess of
England married the Elector, as ha was then called ; but
since her death there had been no Minister of that State
at this Court.
Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORD reminded the hon. gentleman
that the ruler of Wurtemberg had never been ceded an
Elector, but that his former title was Duke of Wurtemberg.
Mr. OT WAY called attention to a charge of 21. 14s. 2d.
—a piece of extravagance which the Prussian Minister had
been guilty of for fetes and illuminations—(laughter)—
perhaps in rejoicing for the signing of the treaty of peace.
He wished, also, to suggest that there should be a system
of interchange established between the clerks in the
Foreign office and the attaches.
Lord PALMERSTON said that wherever such inter-
change could take place without interruption to public
business it had bean done. With regard to the observe,
tions of the hon. member for Lambeth, he had to assure
Lim that it was highly important that England should be
represented at the smaller states of Germany, as the other
nations of Europe were. Th. se States were the consti-
tuents of the German body, and exercised a considerable
influence upon it, and during the war the conduct of
Austria and Prussia, in a groat measure, turned on the
foaling of those States.
Mr. E WART hoped that the suggestion of the hon.
member for Stafford (Mr. Otway) in reference to the inter-
change of the clerks in the Foreign-office and the attaches
might not be lost sight of.
The vote was then agreed to.
On the motion that 146,5371. be granted as superannua-
tion'ant compensation to persons formerly omploped in the
public service,
Mr. WILLIAMS called attention to the necessity of more
attention than had yet been given to those superannuation,
allowances. Ho found one case in which a pension had been
enjoyed for 65 years, and another in which a salary of 7001.
a year had been enjoyed for 36 years. Then there were
four persons who received 2001. a year as " commissioners
of metropolitan buildings." Why were these persons not
employed under the new board?
Mr. WILSON said that these officers were appointed
under a former act. By the act of last year appointing
the Metropolitan Beard of Works, it was enacted that
those officers employed under the former commission, who
should not obtain employment under the new board,
should be superannuated. It had not been possible to pro-
vide employment for these persons, and therefore they re-
ceived their allowances.
Lord NAAS wished for some explanation how it hap-
pened that one counsel of the Irish office of London, per-
fectly competent to his duties, had been superannuated,
while another had been appointed to perform the same
work.
Colonel DUNNE complained that superannuations were
frequently given to men in the full vigour of mind
„end
body, and adverted to several cases of this kind in connec-
tion with the Irish board of works.
Mr. WILSON said the office of counsel to the Irish
office in London had been abolished in 1353, under the im-
pression that such an officer was nut necessary. Subse-
quently, however, it had been found necessary to appoint
another gentleman to perform their duties.
After a few words from Mr. WHITESIDE,
Mr. HORSMAN said the present Government neither
abolished the office of the counsel to the Irish office in
London, nor pensioned off Mr. Batty. That was one of
the ill-judged "reforms" in the Irish office instituted by
the Marquis of Chanties under the Derby A lininistration.
Last year the inconvenience of allowing each department
to draw its own bills was discovered ; and it was also
found that having separate persons to draw bills far each
department entailed additional expense. The Government
therefore made an arrangement to secure the services of
one of the experienced bill drawers in London, who had
engaged for 5001. a year to give the whole of his time to
the work of drawing bills for the Irish office. That was a
shin not larger than was paid for drawing one set of bills,
with regard to tenants' compensation, under the Darby
Government.
Mr. NAPIER said the whole of this discussion showed
the necessity of having a department of public justice. He
did not think that the drawing of the Tenants' Compensa-
tion and Law of Landlord and Tenant Consolidation Bill
under the late Government was overpaid. He did not
know who was the present draughtsman of the Govern-
ment bills, but the experience of a bill which he had lately
drawn had convinced him (Mr. Napier) that he was very
imperfectly qualified to discharge the duties committed to
him.