The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-07 00:00:00

CAVALRY OFFICERS.

In reply to Sir H. STRACTY
Mr. S. HERBERT said that questions and answers on
this subject would not make the house wiser, as the matter
was very intricate and unintelligible. A cavalry officer
not having received the difference in question, would not
be obliged to pay the same.

LORD COWLEY'S DESPATCH.--:SAVOY AND

NICE.

Lord J. RUSSELL laid on the table the despatch from
Lord Cowley, relative to the annexation of Savoy and Nice,
which had been moved for oft the 24th Jan. last.
Sir J. WALSH wished to ask the noble lord whether it
was intended to produce any additional papers which had
been received by Government on this subject ?
Lord J. RUSSELL was not prepared to say that the
papers alluded to were in a state to be laid on the table at
present.

Mr. DISRAELI asked whether the private letter of
Lord Cowley would be produced ?

Lord J. RUSSELL said he could not then inform the
right hon. gentleman.

SALE AND PURCHASE OF ARMY COMMIS

SIONS.

Sir DE LACY EVANS moved that an humble address
be presented to her Majesty, praying that she would be gra-
ciously pleased to order the gradual abolition, as soon as
practicable, of the sale and purchase of commissions in the
army (having due regard in doing so to existing rights),
with the view of substituting for the purchase system, pro-
motion partly by selection, partly by seniority, grounded on
war services of merit, length of colonial and home services,
and attested professional fitness, under such regulations as
her Majesty shall be pleased to direct. The hon. and gal-
lant officer proceeded to address the house, but in so low
and indistinct a tone of voice that we could not frequently
even guess at his meaning llc was understood to say that
he did not propose ro abolish the purchase of commissions
at once, but asked the house, as a beginning, to carry out
the recommendations of the Royal Commission, and to go a
very slight degree further in the march of what he conceived
to be reform in our military system. It was well known to
the house that many members of the commission, including,
he believed he might say, the right hon. gentleman the pre-
sent Secretary for War, were desire& of going a little fur-
ther, and of including lieutenant-colonels and majors in the
non-purchasing ranks. Taking a series of three years, it
appeared that in the first a sum of £117,000 was paid for the
commissions of those. two ranks of officers ; in -the next
series a sum of £65,000, and in the third a sum of £53,500.
They might assume that to be the ratio of decrease. The
hon. and gallant member was understood to complain of a
system which enabled the incompetent to take the place of
the competent. He had known able and meritorious officers
frequently passed over although strongly recommended for
promotian. The hon. and gallant gentleman then, as un-
derstood, referred to the conduct and operations of the army
in the Crimea, and the subsequent inquiry at Chelsea, and
to the system of exchanges in the army, which he con-
demned, but not a single complete sentence of the hon. and
gallant member's observations reached the gallery,
although he was frequently interrupted by hon. mem-
bers, sitting around him, telling him to speak up. The
hon. and gallant member proceeded to read, in an extremely
low tone, various returns and. documents, from which he
was understood to infer that the competitive system hav-
ing worked so well in the civil department in this country
and in the army in France, might with great success be in-
troduced into the British army. The artillery had been most
efficient during the Crimean war, and had preserved most of
their horses, whilst the cavalry were almost universally un-
horsed. The gallant officer next alluded to the vacancies in
the cavalry, there having been 65 cornetcies vacant on the
15th February last. The hon. and gallant gentleman re-
sumed his seat after having addressed the house for two
hours, during which he was almost totally inaudible in the
gallery.

Mr. RICH, in seconding the motion, said he did not wish
to detract from the merit of officers who had obtained cora-
in( les!ons,because many of them were men of the highest
re mlitications, and had done gallant exploits in the field, but
ever an
of money passed over the heads of all the test what
their merits, and it therefore became substantially a
questionmet
whether promotion should be secured by money or
ri
• Lvsry one had Airlifted that the present system could
not be defended in the abstract. The noble lord at the head
of the Government said
that
he would be strongly t lithe army had to be reorganised
opposed to the purchase system, but
that it was now difficult to eradicater .it. But it was said that
the system after all kept up thle leten? of the army. Upon
that point he joined issue. It the system supplied
bodies of officers of the right and fitting
he
e for the several
would
tooul da drnit that
stations in which they were placed, theng
taketh the pr?..
it was good ; but did it do so ? It was useless
theelwasatrfs
sent state of the army, because in consequence o
in
which we unhappily had been engaged during
years, it had been increased to an enormous extent, and wet 7
not in its normal condition; but going back to 1851, the periods
before those great augmentations, he found that the average
age of officers was as follows :—EF.sign and cornet, 21;
lieutenant, between 28 and 29 ; captain, 38 ; major, between
43 and 44 : lieutenant-colonel, 494 ; major .general between
58 and 60 ; lieutenant -general, G 5, and a full general; 70.
Were those the ages at which officers should arrive at those
commands ? At a period preceding 1851 there was not one
major-general under 50, five years older than the late Duke

of Wellington when he laid down his sword after 15 years
commanding, and five years older than Napoleon when
his sword was broken at Waterloo. A man above the age
of 60 was no longer capable of commanding a regiment in
the field. He contended that both seniority and purchase
had failed. What they now required was a course of selec-
tion. The Duke of Wellington felt this so strongly that

he issued an order that any officer who gave a sum beyond
the regulation price for a commission should be instantly
cashiered, yet though he had a stout heart and a strong will
he was entirely defeated ; and now it was laid down that
commissions should ,be sold at certain fixed prices, while it
was well known that every commission was sold at from 50
to 100 per cent. above the regulation price. The purchase

system included two classes—one, that of young men of

larae fortune, who went into the army anci were quite will-
ing put themselves in the very front of danger. And it

was'a very good thing for those young men to be brought
up in such a school, but it was not a good thing for the
army; for, with their largeness of heart and fulness of

pocket, they introduced such a spirit of extravagance into
the army that sober people were afraid to trust their sons
in the cavalry regiments on account of the expense. A
second class consisted of young men with brave hearts and
clear heads, who sacrificed their all to acquire promotion.
Valuable and brave officers they were ; but the time came at
last when they wished to retire, after attaining the rank of
major-general. The allowance would be £5OO or £6OO, but
many of them refused to take it, and then they got perhaps
double that sum, in order that they might be able to recoup
the money they had spent. (No.) What occurred in the
navy ? In the navy undoubtedly promotion was slow, but
there were degrees of retirement ; and promotion, though
slow, was yet much more rapid than in the army. The hon.
gentleman concluded by seconding the motion, •
Capt. L. VERNON proposed an amendment as follows :
—" That whereas the promotion in the seniority corps al-
rettdy existing, viz., the Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers,
and Royal Marines, being of an unsatisfactory character, this
house is of opinion that it is not desirable to extend the
seniority system to the whole of the army." He contended
that the seniority system was not one of such unmixed
good for the army as some hon. gentlemen supposed ; senior
officers could not be persuaded to die in order that junior
officers might get promotion. The Artillery, the Royal
Engineers, and the Royal Marines, comprised a body of
40,000 men. Well, the house would remember that peace
was the rule, and war the exception. In peace the subaltern
served twenty-four years before he arrived at the rank of
captain. What, then, became the position of those men who
'passed nearly half a century of their prime of life in the
condition of subalterns, following the beat of drum from
colony to colony, to Canada and to India, without comfort,
and what was worse, without hope—for hope, which comes
to most men, never came to them. What was the conse-
quence? When war came the senior officers were worn
out. In the Peninsula the Duke of Wellington found his
most efficient officers in the artillery and engineers among
the captains and second lieutenants ; and in the Crimean
war the colonels of engineers one after another broke down
and failed physically, and the whole work was left to
second captains and lieutenants. (Hear.) Was that the
condition to which they wished to reduce the British army?
In the slang of the day it was said that the "upper ten
thousand" monopolised commissions in the army. But if
any one looked down the Army List he would find for one
Plantagenet fifty representatives of the houses of Smith,
Brown, Jones, and Co., and for one of the aristocracy fifty
of those who were connected with commerce, and even
with trade: From his own experience, one of the "fastest"
men he ever knew in the army was the son of a Scotch
upholSterer—(a laugh)—and the wildest dragoon he ever
saw was the son of a country attorney. (Laughter.) The
hero of Lucknow was the son of a baptist minister ; Sir
J. Elly had risen from a trooper to command the Blues,
and Brigadier Cureton, wl.o so gallantly led the 14th
Light Dragoons at Chillianwallah, enlisted as a pri-
vate soldier. Look at the seniority system in India. The
prices given in India for commissions were very nearly
the same as for those in the Queen's service. In the French
army, again, the system was one-third seniority, one-third
merit, andone-third favour. During the Crimean war some
wounded English and French officers were coming home in
a transport. One of the English officers said to a French
officer, for officers were always talking of promotion, " Ah,
your's is the service, for there a fellow has a chance of pro-
motion I" " Erreur I" exclaimed the French officer. "Er-
rent.? Pour avancer chez nous it faut avoir pour parent un
Ministere do la Guerre." (A laugh.) In the French ser-
vice, if an officer did not attain a certain rank in a certain time
he was turned adrift to live as he best could. (Hear, hear.)
He thought that the military system of the French was one
of the reasons why France was so aggressive. They pre-
ferred war to peace, because war to them was bread and
peace starvation. (Hear.) It was said that no one under
the system could get promotion by merit alone. Was that
so ? He should give a remarkable instance of the contrary ;
and if he put the hon. and gallant general who introduced
this subject to the pain of hearing his own merits men-
tioned in his presence, he could assure him he did so only
because he felt it was necessary for his argu-
ment. The hon. and gallant member here read an extract,
briefly detailing the services of the gallant general from
the summer of 1814, when he accompanied General Ross's
expedition to America, as Lieut. Evans, to the month of
February or March, 1315, when ho became lieutenant.
colonel, thus rising from the rank of lieutenant to that of
lieutenant-colonel in the short space of six months, without
the expense of a single shilling. (Hear, hear.) With all the
merit in the world, with all the merit of the gallant general,
it would be impossible for him to have obtained such promo-
tion in a seniority corps. (Hear, hear.) He would have
remained a captain, and could never get beyond it. (Hear.)
It was not a disadvantage, in his opinion, for a poor
,but me-
ritorious officer to be in a regiment where purchase was
going on, because the officers with money purchased and
put themselves out of his way till he arrived at the top of
the tree. (Hear.) A man who served eight years in the
army might attain the rank of lieutenant-colonel under the
Queen's regulations, but he himself had served 24 years as
a subaltern artillery officer, and nine of them as an ensign
—that was to say ho spent a longer time in the lowest rank
than an officer in the army might attain to the rank of
lieutenant-colonel. (Hear, hear.) There was a morbid
feeling in the country that the purchase system admitted
blockheads, whilst it excluded men of merit. Then the
argument was carried a step further, and it was said that
blockheads only purchased, and that men of merit had no
chance whatever. The best answer to that argument was
to compare the deeds of the British army with those of any
army where the purchase system did not exist--the French
for example. He was not going to dispute the merits or
the glory of the French army—that glory was recorded in
a triumphal arch at the top of a dusty road called the Ely-
sian fields. (Laughter.) He did net know with what feel-
ings other foreigners might look on that record of their de-
feats, but he confessed he looked upon it with considerable
complacency. Corunna, indeed, was inscribed upon it ; but
that he thought, must be a mistake because he believed
that they had won that battle, and that Moore died in the
arms of victsry. (Hear, hear.) However that might be,
let him compare our army with that of France. In the Pen-
insular war it had six years of continual success. The im-
perial 'conqueror of Europe led on at Austerlitz, Wagram.
Jena, and Marengo, Moreau, Marmont, Massone, who was
styled "l'enfant cheri dela victoire." Ney, Suchet,Victor,
Soult, were met by Graham, Crawford, Beresford, Paken-
ham, Picton, and Hill, and they outmarched them, they out-
fought them, they out-generaled them, they met them hand
to hand and foot to foot, and drove them from Lisbon to the
'gates of Paris. Then came the crowning; field of glorious
Waterloo, where the star of Napoleon, the genius of merit,
sank liefore that of Wellington, the genius of purchase.
(Cheers.) With the exception of Graham and Picton, all
these men were under the age of 40 at the time, which was
about the age of a subaltern officer in a seniority corps.
(Hear, hear.) Whilst it was not for him to advise what
was the best system for the army, he might venture to de-
nounce as the worst that under which he himself and others
had groaned for years—tbe seniority system. (Cheers.)
Colonel DICKSON, in seconding the amendment, said
he rose under great disadvantage, after the address of his
hon. and gallant friend, who not only impressed the house
by his eloquence but proved the justice of his cause. (Hear,
hear.) He feared the hon. and gallant general brought
forward this question morelon account of the private opinion
he entertained than out of zeal for the service in which he
had risen to such deserved distinction. He regretted that
the hon. and gallant general had drawn an invidious dis-
tinction between the cavalry and artillery. He believed
the conduct of the British cavalry at Balaclava would re-
main for ever engraven in the memory of the nation. (Hear.)
The artillery consisted of more seasoned men than the ca-
valry, and therefore it was no wonder that they were able
at a pinch to perform more extra duty. Ho regretted the
tone adopted by the press in reference to this subject. He
should not have alluded to the press on that occasion were
it not for an article which he read that day, which appeared
to have been written for the purpose of putting some pres-
sure on the Secretary for War, and trying to guide the Go-
vernment to a decision in this matter which he believed
would be prejudicial to the army and the country. He be-
lieved that every class in the country were highly indebted
to the press, and that they owed the saving of the army
in the Crimean war to the press. But occasionally there
were letters in various portions of the press which
_dis-
played such ignorance of the subjects onwhich they treated
that no one who wished to come toe right and unprejudiced
decision should yield to what he there read. That British
officers were nothing but fashionable idlers, and that the
younger officers were encouraged in a course of reckless ex-
travagance by the colonels was utterly unfounded and un-
true. (Hear, hear.) At the same time he-was ready toadmit
that some abuses had crept in during a long peace ; but
there was a wide difference between removing abuses and
destroying a system altogether. He believed that the pur-
chase system, if it raised the rich officer, helped also to
raise the poor officer with him. The purchase system
enabled officers who had but little means to place their
families in a position of comparative competency and com-
fort. The hon. and gallant general said it would require
£4,000,000 to compensate the officers who have purchased,
but ho maintained that these officers were entitled in justiee
tithverpiener.cl;7, money which they paid beyond the regula-
tionoh.)' That money was given with the con-
twvoansocnesoifuththc.rny ; si
ea:thioti authorities.
H. H
The
arDdulitnegie hdlaird Wellington
sons in
gtonhad
the army, and they allowed and paid money beyond the re-

gulation price. It would be unjust therefore merely to
allow the regulation price. ghe right hail. gentleman the
Secretary at War, adopted ''a prop 3r, a judicious, and a satis-

factory course in assimilating the price in the cavalry and
infantry. (Hear, hear.) He only regretted that the benefit
was not to be realised at once. it was impossible for any
man to live on the mere pay of a cornet. The purchase-
money of a cornetcy was £450 ; outfit and regimentals
would cost £100; horses, £lOO, making the purchase-money
really amount to £650. His pa was only £146 a year ; from
which was to be deducted ire expense of forage, batman,

saddlery, wear and tear of horses, mess, and band—all of
which, at the most reasonable computation, would amount
t0.€87. His eating and drinking would at the least cost 55.,
or Cs. a day. Therefore, without making any allowance for
clothes, extra comforts, or luxuries, there was a deficiency
of about £5O, unless they made a considerable increase in
the pay of the officers of the army, which, he apprehended,
the country was not prepared to make. Unless they were
prepared to increase the pay of the army, they could not
induce poor men to enter cavalry regiments. He admitted
that the new regulations made the service more economical
than formerly, and that the officers could live cheaper.
Nevertheless, it would require something beyond their pay
to.support them. He had heard rs* great deal of army extra-
vagance, but he could truly say from his own experience—
having served in cavalry and infantry, and having been a
member of what were termed crack corps—that he never
knew a single case of an officer ruined by extravagance of
the mess, though there were, no doubt, many cases of offi-
cers being ruined by extravagance and vice incurred without
the barrack walls. But the parents of these young men
blamed the regiment for all these evil results. But, after all,
how few were the cases of misconduct on the part of indivi-
dual officers. Such misconduct could not be long concealed,
and it was obvious to everybody that the cases before the
tribunals of the country where officers in the army were
accused were few indeed. The honour of the British army
stood too high to admit of such accusations. (Hear.) What
would be the effect of abolition of purchase ? Why one of the
very first effects would be that that which could not be done
directly would be done indirectly the moment purchase was
abolished. The truth was, whatever men wanted they would
offer money for, and when men had anything they wished to
dispose of they would accept of money, nor could they for
instance prevent the officers of a regiment privately sub-
scribing to purchase a man out. The system prevailed in
the Indian army ; it notoriously prevailed in the militia,
for militia commissions were every day hawked about
as they were in the line. He had heard re-
cently of an adjutant of militia who had repeatedly re-
fused £2,500 for his commission. Why throw away so large
a sum of money by the abolition of the present system,
when a much smaller amount, properly distributed, would
contribute considerably to the welfare and comfort of the
service ? Abolish the system as they would, purchase would
creep in ultimately in some shape or another. (Hear.)
Remarks had been made upon the scarcity of comets in the
present day. One of the reasons for that scarcity un-
doubtedly was that the examinations were what he should
term absurdly severe. (Hear.) The very feelings which
induced young gentlemen to enter the army—the very cha-
racteristics which stamped them as best fitted for the profes-
sion, were those least compatible with the present system
of examination, which exacted close study and a knowledge
of the most intricate questions. (Hear.) He did not see
why a certificate of having attained a certain position at a
public school should not be received as a perfect qualifica-
tion. He had read one or two opinions given in evidence
before the Royal Commission. First of all, he was sur-
prised, to hear the hon. and gallant gentleman opposite
(General Evans) complain of the style of evidence given
before that commission because he (Colonel Dickson)
thought the officers gave their evidence in a straightfor-
ward way. Surely the evidence of the Commander-in-
Chief was as candid and unexceptionable as any evidence
could be. Lord Grey expressed himself as having strong
doubts to the policy of competitive examinations. Ho did
not think those examinations a proper test of qualities the
most important in a soldier. Sir Benjamin Brodie in an
interesting work expressed himself of opinion that the fort-'
ing of the youthful mind 'was most injurious—that this
was demonstrated in the French service, where diseases of
the brain were often the result. (Hear.) He was almost
afraid to refer to the French army, whose example was
always crammed down their throats, but what was the ex-
perience of the two armies in the Crimea ? He was aware
that owing to peculiar circumstances our military system at
first broke down, but when they found out their deficiencies,
day by day, week by week, the system was improved, until
we became entirely superior to that of France, which, as we
succeeded, decayed in the same proportion; so much so, that
he believed they could not continue the war, and he thought
this country was obliged to conclude a premature peace,
because France could not continue the war in the manner it
had commenced. What carried us through many of our
most glorious victories but this same so much decried regi-
mental system. (Hear, hear.) One remedy proposed was
that of selection. Now, whatever might be the fate of this
motion, that was a principle against which he must utterly
protest. It was a system -which if adopted must min the
British army ; it was a system which no officer could carry
out ; it was impossible for any commanding officer to decide
who ought to be promoted and who ought not. The Duke of
Cambridge said he should be sorry to see any partial change ;
a change should be complete or should not take place at all—
for a partial change would lead to doubt and insecurity. If
they did away with the purchase system the next day they
would have an indirect purchase and sale going on, which
would lead to great mischief. It would be impossible for a
Commander-in-Chief to make selections without exciting
great discontent. (Hear.) Then, how was a Commander-
in-Chief to act as regarded regiments on foreign service ?
Even at home there might be two regiments in garrison ; the
colonel of one of those regiments wished to retire, the major
of the other might happen to be a relative. How was the
Commander-in-Chief to act in such a case without excit-
ing the suspicion of jobbing ? (Hear, hear.) Of course he
would leave the power of veto in tb e hands of the Commander-
in-Chief, in order to prevent the promotion of undeserving
men, but to suppose that the Commander-in-Chief could act
on the principle of selection was, he rereated, absurd and
impracticable. The great body of the British army was
moved by an esprit de corps—which, if destroyed, would de-
stroy their efficiency. Those regiments who had performed
the most brilliant actions were noted for their esprit de
corps—that it was which sustained them at Inkermann,
when every individual felt that the reputation of his regi-
ment depended upon him. (Cheers.) The gallant officer
concluded by thanking the house for the attentive audience
they had given to him,
Mr. P. O'BRIEN thought it would have been more dis-
creet if her Majesty's Government had abstained under the
circumstances of a pending treaty from making invidious
allusions to the French service. Why should the purchase
system be any more necessary here than it was in France
Austria, or Prussia? He regretted to hear that of late in
public schools and colleges mathematics and the science of
mechanics had been discouraged in order to encourage classi-
cal learning. To the latter he was no enemy, but though t
a knowledge of projectiles might be more useful to a military
man than arma virumque cano.
Sir F. SMITH observed that it was with great pain he
differed with the hon. and gallant member for Westminster,
and especially on a question so closely connected with the
army. They were both soldiers, and he could only say he
had watched the progress of the hon. and gallant member
with great admiration, and was, indeed, amongst the most
enthusiastic of his admirers. But this was a question which
went to the very root of the British army, and he felt sure
that in the hands of the right hon. gentleman the Minister
for 'War it would receive that attention which it deserved.
The hon. and gallant member for Westminster spoke in so
low a tone that he was unable to hear many of his obser-
vation; but this ho (Sir F. Smith) must say, that ho
could never be made to understand how it could be
possible to mix up the three systems together of pur-
chase, and seniority, and selection, and have any other
result than the most utter confusion. It must be one of the
three. Lord Panmure, in his evidence before the Royal
Commission, said it would be utterly impossible to carry on
the administration of the British army on the principle of
selection. Take the case of a captaincy being vacant. The
right hon. gentleman the Secretary for War is to appoint
his successor. There were ten lieutenants candidates for
the vacancy. What was to be the test of fitness ? In time of
peace a soldier might have most excellent qualities which it
was impossible to discover. (Hear.) Was the test to be
science or drill, or what was it to be ? Well, then, say he
selected the fifth. _ What heartburning and discontent
amongst one, two, three, and four. (Hear, hear.) Why, in-
stead of harmony discord would prevail, and every regimen-
tal mess would be a hell upon earth. (Hear.) That was
how it would act in the case of a single regiment. But give
the principle a wider range, and attempt to apply it through-
out the army—that the most fitting man, according to what-
ever test might be devised, should have the vacancy. Well,
but some regiments where there might be men of equal or
superior fitness were in India, some in the 'West Indies,
some in Canada, some at home—how was the Secretary for
War to act in such a case ? Would it not be simply impos-
sible. He defied him unless all the candidates were together
to say which would be the most eligible. 'Who was to say
what should be the proportion of home, what of colonial
service. It would be like multiplying pounds, shillings, and
pence by avoirdupois. (Laughter.) He said leave things as
they were, as they were producing a great benefit to the
service. He believed that the system, particularly such as
that which the Government were now pursuing, would
make the finest regimental system in the world, and that
they would have the best staff officers in existence. The
Government were going on in the right way, and he hoped
they would persevere. (Hear, hear.)
Captain JERVIS said he believed the intention of the
hon. and gallant general was to open up the army to the
middle classes more than it was at present. Now, if they
did that the house must first see whether the country would
grant the money which would be necessary. It should be
remembered that the system of purchase and sale prevented
a great many pensions of late years, and without much'in-
quiry the house would not be able to state what would be
the extent of the pension list if they did away with the
purchase of commissions. (Hear, hear.) Now let the house
consider the middle classes as they were. They know that
if a man wished to place his sin out in the world he gave
him a good education, and obtained for him a position from
which he could advance himself to something better. But,
let the house look at the amount of pay in the army, and

MEI