The Sun.
London, England, 1860-05-23 00:00:00

THE-SUN, LONDON, 'WEDNESDAY EVENING, YT /8,.

disagreeable state of things. He trusted the expression
of their lordships' opinion, that both parties were most
shamefully to blame, and that there was no sympathy for
either the one or the other, in this miserable contest, would
have some effect on those persons who were, he believed,
both the one and the other, in the wrong. He had said,
and he believed, that if the matter was placed in his hands,
it could be arranged ; but it must be an unconditional
surrender to the ordinary of the place. He must be called
in to settle these d sturbances ; and he hoped he
was not thinking too much of himself or his office,
when he said he had full confidence that there was so much
good feeling among Englishmen that, whenever they had
no doubt as to where the authority lay, or as to how far
those who exercised the authority were entitled to exercise
it, they would be quite ready to give way to it. If the rector
of that parish would do what he ought to have done months
ago, and say, " I am unable to manage this parish, I beg
the bishop of the diocese to manage it for me," all the mis-
chief might be put an end to,
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the case of " Allen v.
King" came before the Court of Queen's Bench when he
had the honour of filling the office of Lord Chief Justice.
It was contended on the part of the Rev. Bryan King that
the Rev. Mr. Allen had no legal right to officiate as lecturer
in the church of St. George's-in the-East without Mr.
King's consent. The court decided that Mr. Bryan King
was wrong and Mr. Allen right ; but they earnestly recom-
mended the parties to try and come to some amicable
arrangement. With regard to his presenting Mr. Allen to
the living of St. George's, Southwark, he (the Lord Chan-
cellor) was informed that it was of importance that some
active and zealous clergyman should be appointed to pre-
side over so populous a parish. He was wholly unac-
quainted with him, but he was recommended to him, along
with a great many others, as being a most zealous pastor
and a most upright and pious man. He received a great
variety of testimonials of a most unexceptional character
stating his fitness for such a charge ; but, not contented
with these, he applied to the Bishop of London, because
he was afraid that Mr. Allen might have incurred some
blame in the controversies at St. George's-in-the-East,
for the purpose of ascertaining whether he had done any-
thing in those transactions which affected his character,
and rendered him an unfit person to be appointed rector
of the parish. The right reverend prelate testified to him
that Mr. Allen's conduct, as far as he knew, had been
unexceptionable, and that he was a proper person to
receive the appointment. Upon that he presented him
to the living, and up to that hour be be •
lieved he had discharged his duties in a manner
calculated to give great satisfaction. (Hear, hear.) With
regard to what had fallen from the noble viscount (Lord
Dungannon), he would ask him on whom did he propose
censure should fall in regard to the continuance of the riots
at St. George's-in-the-East? It could not fall upon the
Bishop of London, no'- upon the Home Secretary. And he
had not shown any other individual whose duty it was to
suppress these outrages who was at all to blame. He hoped,
however, that the expression of feeling in deploring these
transactions, which the noble viscount had called forth from
all quarters of the house, would satisfy him, and induce
him to withdraw his motion:
The Bishop of CASHEL bore strong testimony to the
character of the Rev. Mr. Allt n, and observed that he had
never seen such a large and attentive congregation in his
life as that which he witnessed on one occasion at St. Jude's,
-Whitechapel, where teat rev. gentleman officiated. The
right rev. prelate was proceeding to eimplain of the charges
which were brought against Mr. Allen, when
Lord DUNGANNON observed that he had brought no
charge whatever against Mr. Allen.
Earl GRAN-VILLE rose to order, and said he thought
it was now high time the conversation should come to a
close.

The Earl of WICKLOW denied that hewished to throw
any imputation upon the gentleman whose character had
been so highly spoken to by two right rev, prelates. He
knew nothing of him whatever, he only quoted the words of
a pamphlet which had been circulated throughout the whole
country, and in which much stronger words than he had
used appeared. And he had asked the Bishop of London
whether Mr. Bryan King did not inform him of those par-
ticular circumstances. He would now ask the right rev.
prelate whether he did or did not try to ascertain what
were the reasons why the rev. gentleman was obliged to
relinquish the living of St. Luke's, Old-street ?
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE rose to order. The
noble earl, instead of simply explaining, was now comment-
ing on the speech of the right rev, prelate.
After a few words from the Earl of WrcKLo'sv in reply,
Earl STANHOPE regretted very much that the Rev.
Mr. Allen's name had been introduced in this discussion
without any necessity. But ho would not advert further to
that gentleman, whose character had been completely vin-
dicated by the testimony of two right rev. prelates and by
the Lord Chancellor, who had bestowed the benefice upon
him. His object in rising was only to advert to the unfor-
tunate transactions at St. George's-in-the-East. His own
opinion was the same as that expressed
,by several of their
lordships, namely, that both parties were to Warne. The
outrages in that church against the Rev. Mr. King were
utterly indefensible; but, on the other hand, it must be
regretted that Mr. King, though doubtless actuated by
conscientious motives, proceeded to the extremity of his
legal rights, and thus produced an almost universal
feeling of dissatisfaction at his conduct. These distur-
bances arose out of ritual observances which were not
essential to divine service. In the letter which the noble
lord opposite had read, it was said that these services did
not differ in any respect from those in a cathedral ; but
his church was not a cathedral, and what authority had
he to introduce cathedral services into a parish church ? He
was persuaded that the only way of bringing these unhappy
disturbances to a termination was to submit them to the
arbitration of the bishop of the diocese. It appeared that
the parishioners were anxious for such a course. He hoped
the rev, gentleman would reconsider the subject and agree
to it also, with a view of restoring peace to his parish.
After the expressions which the debate had elicited, he
hoped the noble lord would not press his motion.
Lord CHELMSFORD thought that in fairness to the
Rev. Mr. Allen, whose character had been assailed by the
noble earl opposite—
Lord WICKLOW—No.
Lord CHELMSFORD—It was quite right that the
Bishop of London should explain and vindicate not only
that gentleman's conduct but his own with regard to
these transactions. The question was not what was the
origin of these unhappy scandals, nor were they called upon
to adjust the proportion of blame attachable to the different
parties. But his noble friend complained that sufficient
power and energy had not been displayed in putting down
these disturbances. They had, however, no evidence to show
that if a different course of action had been pursued it would
have produced a better result. His noble friend (Lord
Wexsleydale) had said that the magistrates were too lenient
on some occasions when defendants were brought before
them. That was a very strong charge to make against ma-
gistrates without more information as to the cinumstances
of the case, because there was great difficulty in obtaining
evidence, and it was this want of evidence, and particularly
the want of proof of identity, that occasioned the failure of
charges of this description. He objected to the motion,
which, if passed, would be perfectly futile, and he hoped the
noble lord after the expressions of feeling which it had called
forth, would consent to withdraw i
Lord DUNGANNON briefly replied.
The motion was then withdrawn.
CLERGY OF TIIE DIOCESE OF CLONFERT.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition
from the clergy of the diocese of Clonfert, praying for a
restoration of that portion of the revenues of their benefices
commonly call the " Quarts pars," which was formerly ap-
propriated to increase the income of the bishop, but which
had latterly been put at the disposal of the Ecclesiastical
Commissioners.

THE CEYLON RAILWAY.
The Earl of CARNARVON asked what were the inten-
tions of her Majesty's Government in respect to the further
prosecution of the Ceylon Railway ?
The Duke of NEWCASTLE replied that the railway in
question was proposed so far back as the year 1851, but it
was only brought into a state in which it could be dealt with
by the Colonial-office in 1857. The course taken by his noble
friend (Lord Taunton) at that time was this—the noble lord
sent out Capt. Moorsom for the purpose of surveying the lino
and forming an estimate of the cost of its construction.
That estimate was £856,000, and upon it a contract was
made between the colonial government of Ceylon and the
railway company which had been formed to carry out the
undertaking, based on a guarantee. The next step taken
was that this company sent out Mr. Doyle, a civil engineer,
for the purpose of superintending the workings, but from
1857 down to 1859 little was done. In the June of lost year,
however, a report carne from Mr. Doyle, estimating the
cost of constructing the line, not at £853,000, but at
£2,214,000. This estimate was received at the Colonial-
office at a time when he (the noble duke) was at the head
of that department, and one of the first matters he had to
deal with was the complication arising on the subject of this
railway. The colonists naturally remonstrated against the
increased estimate sent home by Mr. Doyle, and under
+hese circumstances he (the Duke of Newcastle) thought it
quite impossible to allow the works to proceed without some
further inquiry, and most thorough and complete investiga-
tion. He thought it absolutely necessary to call in the best
practical opinion, and although the late Mr. Robert
Stephenson had retired from professional business he most
kindly undertook to investigate the whole case and
give the Government the benefit of his practical
advice. It was then arranged that the works
should be as far as practicable suspended, but
that the two contractors who had undertaken
to send out agents to Ceylon should be allowed still to send
them out, and it was also decided that Mr. Doyle should be
immediately sent home, with a view of his laying before Mr.
Stephenson such information as he had been able to acquire.
Mr. Doyle arrived in England in December last, but in the
meantime, to the great disadvantage of the Government in
this matter, and, indeed, to the great disadvantage of the
country at large, Mr. Stephenson died. Under these cir-
cumstances it was necessary that some other person should
be found to undertake the task which had been accer ted by
him, and eventually Mr. Hawkshaw was applied to, and
Captain Moersom had been induced to put himself in com-
munication with that gentleman. He had every reason to
hope that by the close of the present month a report would

be received from Mr. Hawkshaw on the subject, and as soon '
as that report was received it should have the consideration
of the Colonial-office. He might mention that it would be
in the power of the railway company to reject or accept any
tender which was made, but the agreement entered into be-
tween his noble friend (Lord Taunton) and the colonists
was that no contract could be made by the company with.
out the consent of the colony.
After a few words from Lord Tat NTON, the house ad•
journed shortly after 8 o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YEsTEnDAY•.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con-
sidered and agreed to, and the bills were ordered for third
reading :—Sheffield Water, Sirhowy Tramroad ; and
Tewkesbury, Upton upon Severn, and Malvern Junction
Railway.

Lords.

The following bills were read a third time :—Hereford,
Hay, and Brecon Railway, Maidstone Water, Vale of
Clwyd Railway Extension, and Wexford Free Bridge.
The folkwing bills were considered, and ordered for
third readWrg : —Doncaster and Tadcaster Road ; Horsham
and Guildford Direct Railway; London Hydraulic Power
Company (Lords) ; Marchburn, Kelso, and Lauder Road ;
North Kent Water (Lords) ; Sudbury, Melford and Clare
Railway (changed from " Sudbury, Melford and Clare, and
Bury Saint Edmund's Railway") ; Swansea Local Board
of Health; and Wimbledon and Dorking Railway.

GUN VESSELS.
The following returns were ordered :—Copies of the con
trait entered into with Messrs. Green for building the gun
vessels ; of any document in office, or correspiatclence, on
the subject of unseasoned timber, and of the inability of
Messrs. Green to procure seasoned timber ; of the report
from Malta of the state of the Coquette, built by Messrs.
Green, stating whether that vessel had ever been hauled
up at Haslar or elsewhere ; of •he report from Portsmouth
on the state of the Caroline, built by Messrs. Green ; re-
turns of the number of inspectors appointed by the Board
of Admiralty attached to the yard of Messrs. Green during
the building of the gunboats ; and, of the means adopted for
the preservation of the vessels hauled up at Haslar, as
directed in Jan., 1857.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE—VOTE OF
THE HOUSE OF LORDS ON THE REPEAL OF
THE PAPER DUTY.
Lord PALMERSTON said he rose, pursuant to notice,
to move that the house at its rising this evening should ad-
journ till Thursday. He took that opportunity of stating that
on Thursday evening he would move for the appointment of
a committee to inquire into precedents in regard to the
course which had been taken on former occasions by the
House of Lords in reference to money bills. He would
make this motion in consequence of the vote of last night
in the Upper House. (Cries of " Hear, hear," and
" Oh, oh.")

question of licensing theatres for the sale of wine was I
merely a matter for the police, and should not in his opinion
be brought before the house. With regard to the
Sayiugs' Bank Bill, it was a financial measure, but it was
not of such importance that he could expect that bills of a
first class character should give way to its being proceeded
with. Unless some special arrangements were made
by which he could have a day sgttled for the
discussion of the bill, its postponement from Friday next
would, in the present state of public busines havethe effect
of putting off legislation on the subject for the present
session.

THE VOTE OF THE LORDS.
Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR appealed to the Government
or some information is addition to what had been already

stated in respect to thvote of last night of the House of

After a few words from Mr. DISRAELI,
Lord PALMERSTON said that he did not see any

reason to depart from the course he had state previously.
The vote for the adjournment 'of the house until Thurs
day was then agreed to.

BUSINESS OF THE ROUSE.
Lord PALMERSTON proposed that upon Thursdays,

after Whitsuntide, Government orders of the day have pre-
cadence of notices of motions, and that notices of motions
have precedence of orders of the day upon Fridays.—
Agreed to.
Lord PALAIERSTON said it was proposed that on
Thursday the Wine Licences Bill, which he hoped might
not take much time, would be disposed of. It was not ex-

pected that the third reading would occupy much time, and

after that his right hon. friend would propose the votes on
account of the civil service estimates. They should then
proceed with the naval estimates.
COUNTY RATES AND EXPENDITURE.

Sir J. TRELAWNY moved for leave to bring in a bill to
establish county financial boards, for the assessing of county
rates and for the administration of county expenditure in
England and Wales. He wished to have the bill of 1853

reprinted in order that it might be referred to a select cow

mittee.

Sir J. PAKINGTON offered no opposition to the intro-
duction of the bill, but reserved to himself the right of deal-
ing with it in any manner he might think proper on the
second reading.

Sir G. C. LEWIS wished it to be understood that he did
not bind himself to vote for the second reading of the bill.
After a few words from Sir J. SHELLEY and Mr. DiEDEs,
leave was given to bring in the bill.

TIIE REGIIJM DONUM.

Mr. BAXTER moved "That this house is of opinion
that the grant now annually made to non-conforming
ministers in Ireland (commonly called the Regium Donum),
should cease and be extinguished as speedily as is consistent
with the just expectations of the recipients thereof; and
with this view that no further grant be made on account of
' new congregations,' nor to any existing congregations after
the present ministers thereof shall have ceased, by death or
otherwise, to be the ministers of such congregations." He
disclaimed all hostile or unkindly feeling towards the people
of Ireland or the Pre byterian ministers•of the province of
Ulster in submitting this modem. The grant, amounting
to nearly £40,000 per annum, differed from all other grants
to religious bodies, inasmuch as a fresh claim was created
whenever 12 founders were gathered together who were
able to raise £35 yearly, and this at once became charge •
able on the estimates for the ensuing year. It had always
been a matter of astonishment to him that a respectable
and wealthy denomination should countenance a system
which of necessity gave rise to implications against clergy-
men as to the modes by which fresh congregations were
created. He objected to the grant on financial grounds,
and as an titter waste of the public money. It was also ob-
jectionable in point of principle, and was attended with dis-
astrous and injurious consequences to the recipients. The
grant did more mischief 1 han good, and there were no spe-
cial reasons why it should be retained. The original con-
tract was for a sum of £1,200, and not for the sum 0f£40,000,
to which the grant now amounted. The grant was neither
more nor less than a reward for political services. One of
the results of the grant was to impoverish the ministers of
the Presbyterian churches, by drying up the sources of vo-
luntary liberality. During the last 17 years the Free Church
in Scotland had contributed £5,000,000 for the purposes of
religious instruction. His motion did nothing more than
ask the house to do, as regarded Ireland, what had been
done in England and Scotland. In both of the latter coun-
tries the Regium Donum had been done away with, and he
believed with great advantage to religion. He did not desire
to do
.anything that would affect existing interests. His
motion would reserve to the clergy of the Presbyterians in
the North of Ireland their present income, but after they
had passed away the Regium Donum should cease. He be-
lieved that, if this grant were got rid of, Presbyterianism
would increase and flourish in the North of Ireland.
Mr. CROSSLEY said he had very great pleasure in
seconding the motion, because he believed that that was
the best mode of settling the long-vexed question of the
.Regium Donum. They did not propose to interfere with
vested interests, but they merely asked, that after the
death of the present incumbents no more grants should
be made. He thought the hon. member for Montrose had
clearly shown that it was not for the benefit of these mini-
sters that these grants should exist. He believed there
was a strong feeling against these grants in support of re-
ligion, and he trusted the house would when they came to
them reject them.
Mr. CONOLLY rose to move an amendment to the hon.
gentleman's motion. It was as follows :—To leave out the
words after Regium Donum, for the purpose of substituting
these words—" Should no longer be exposed to the annual
criticism of this house, but having been duly sanctioned by
the house for a lengthened period, it ought to be placed on
the Consolidated Fund." (Laughter from members at the
back seats of the Treasury benches.) Hon. gentlemen did
not seem to understand this question, and he begged to
quote a statement of the late Sir Robert Peel, who, in re-
ply to a question from Sir Robert Inglis, said that he was
anxious to place the clergy of the Presbyterian Church in
Ireland on as permanent a financial footing as the clergy
of the Established Church and the Roman Catholic
Church. This being so he felt he was justified in bring-
ing forward his amendment to the motion of the hon.
member for Montrose. He complained that a Scotch and
English member should thus interfere with the Presby-
terian Church in Ireland ; and in answer to the opinion
of Lord Castlereagh, as quoted by the hon. gen-
tleman, he begged to say that the opinion of
Lord Castlereagh's father, who was himself a
Presbyterian, was decidedly in favour of the continuance
of the Regium Donlon, both upon the grounds of justice
►and policy. He denied that the Presbyterian congrega-
tions had_ fallen off ; on the contrary, they had increased,
and they were ten times more in number than they were
in the time of William the Third. The grant in question
was given from motives of high policy, and the Presbyte-
rians felt it an injustice to them that this subject should be
thus constantly brought under the consideration of the
house by hon. gentlemen who knew nothing whatever of
the state of feeling in the North of Ireland. He begged to
move the amendment which he had read to the house.
Mr. DAWSON, in seconding the amendment, also com-
plained of hon. members unacquainted with Ireland at-
tempting to legislate in respect of this question of the Re-
glues Donum, the origin of which was coeval with the
settlement of Ireland. Now this was compensation for the
losses the ministers had sustained by giving up their part
of the tithes, and it was but just to continue it to them.
(Hear.) A deliberate contract had been entered into be-
tween the Presbyterians and the State, and that contract
ought to be strictly observed. (Hear.) On thing he re-
marked, that when the annual onslaught was made in this
house upon the Regium Donum by hon. gentlemen who
were opposed to that endowment, the Secretary of State for
Ireland, of whatever Government he was a member, always
rose in his place and did justice to the loyalty and order
which distinguished the Presbyterians ; and it was further
remarkable, that wherever they were congregated in massed
population, there was little necessity there for the presence
of police. He thought, looking at the position which the
Presbyterians occupied, that the Regium Donum, instead
of being made the subject of an annual vote, ought to be
placed upon the Consolidated Fund. (Hear, hear.) Ho
found that of the 105 members for Ireland in that house
only two of them recorded their votes against this endow-
ment, and that the Roman Catholics to a man had always
voted in favour of it, and for its continuance. He depre-
cated very strongly those displays of religious animosity,
and he trusted that better feeling would prevail among mem-
bers of the different denominations of religion. For his part,
he should oppose the motion of the hon. member fur Mon-
trose.

The SPEAKER then read the original motion and the
amendment, and
Mr. CARDWELL, amid loud cries of " Divide," rose.
He saw that the house was impatient for the division ; but
before they proceeded to that extreme, he ventured to ex.
press a hope that the hon. member for Donogal (Mr. Conolly)
would not persist in pressing his amendment. His
hon. friend the member for Montrose (Mr. Baxter), who
moved the original motion, had raised three grounds of
objection to the grant. The first of thorn, of a financial
character, spoke for itself, the only question being, whether
the conditions involved were worth £40,000 a-year. The
second objection of the hon. member to the grant was,
that it was universally objected to. Now, it should not be
forgotten that when the Presbyterians first went to Ire-
land they were placed in possession of benefices. At the
time of the Commonwealth, because they refused to take
the oath of obedience to the Commonwealth, they were
sentenced to transportation to Tipperary—a very severe
sentence at that time. (Laughter.) The boats were ready
at Carrickfergus to convey them to their destination,
when, according to history, Henry Cromwell, who was of a
mild temper, and who was sent over to deal with them,
gave them an easier time of it ; hat ho remonstrated with
them for not changing their allegiance, on the ground that
they were then in the enjoyment of £10) a-year at least
from the Government; but they told him they gave him
no thanks for that, for it was but poor compensation for the
tithes they had given up. The right hon. gentleman then
went historically through the particulars of the grant from
the time when Charles IL originally conferred it upon the
Presbyterians down to 1803, when a special arrangement
was entered into respecting it by the House of Commons.
Having referred to the authority of Dr. Chalmers in favour
of religious endowments, he concluded by expressing a hope