The Sun.
London, England, 1860-02-10 00:00:00

ship at home. At the same tune, inquiry would serve to
set things in a right light, and would place the civil service
upon a better footing for the future. By his next question
he asked whether it was not desirable to aboiish the Legis-
lative ,Council at Calcutta and the Supreme Councils of
Bombay,—Madras, and- Benial, and substitute for them a
Legislative Council for each Presidency. These councils
had failed to produce any practical good, and since their
creation, by the act of 1853, no one had succeeded in ascer-
taining for what object they had been created, except it was
to draw large salaries. The necessity of his proposal had
been recognised by the evidence before the colonisation
committee. Mr. Waller said the Supreme Councils were
wholly useless, while the Legislative Council of Calcutta
possessed the confidence of neither the Europeans nor the
natives. Several meetings had taken place at Bombay
and Calcutta to denounce the lamentable indifference of the
Legislative Council to matters of finance. No public con-
fidence could be placed in men who took especial care to
exempt themselves from the taxation which they were
anxious to extend to the rest of the community. Now
that India was annexed to her Majesty's dominions there
was no real occasion for two courts. The resolution would
also effect a considerable saving of expense besides the
union of the Supreme and Sudder Courts, serving as a fine
example for the administration of justice in India. As re-
garded the fourth resolution, he thought it was of suffi-
cient importance to be submitted to a select eommittee. He
thought the power of raising loans on the revenue of India
ought to be modified, and that all future India loans should
be subjected to the deduction of 1 per cent. for the purpose
of sweating a sinking fund. On the Ist of May this year the
Indian debt would amount to 96 millions, and other loans
could not be avoided ; while the means of meeting the inte-
, rest on these loans was not adequately increased. He had no
intention of embarrassing Mr. Wilson by this motion, but
he was anxious that the house should aid him in establish-

ing a system of economy.
Sir C. WOOD said no advantage would be derived from
the appointment of a committee ; at the same time he ad-
mitted the questions brought forward were of the utmost m-
i
portance, and brought forward in a most temperate man-
ner. As regarded the first resolution, the return of 1854
would show that though the number of civil servants in a
yearhad inCreased,the salaries had diminished one
had been still lf mono and
that those of C 3,000 a year and upwards
diminished. In 1854 he (Sir C. Wood) had advised the re-
visal of salaries, and Mr. Ricketts was appointed to revise
them. His report proposed a considerable reduction in sala-
ries, and he (Sir C. Wood), having received the strongest
remonstrances on the subject, had appointed a commission
under the Indian Council to go through the subject again,
and to report upon it. They were now engaged on it,. and
would soon make their report. At the same time, consider-
ing the responsibility of the civil servants in India, he (Sir
C. Wood) was bound to say that, as a body, he did noticon-
' Bider them at all overpaid. Reductions might be made by
equalising salaries and abolishing Offices ; but he did not
think that a sweeping reduction was at a.ll desirabl, con-
sistently with a due administration of Public affairse. The
civil service was thrown open to competition, but there
was every probability that there wobld not be too many
candidates in the course of time ; for if reference were made
to railroad salaries in India, it would be found that
they were much higher than those paid to civil ser-
, vents, and moreover entailed lees responsibility. Under
these circumstances, he (Sir C. Wood) did not
think the appointment of a select committee
would be of any advantage. As regarded the second reso-
lution, he (Sir C. Wood) would not say that some member
of the Supreme Council might not be dispensed with ; but
it would be unjust to state that these bodies were without
any duties. All the papers relating to the government of
India had to be considered by them • and no doubt they did
their duty conscientiously, but at the same time it was ob-
vious that much delay was created. A great deal of the
business was, however, transacted by the secretaries of the
supreme Government, and the Supreme Councils of Bombay
and Madras were sometimes annoyed at being overruled by
inferior officers. He thought the duties of those councils,
in the greater number of cases. might be transferred to the
secretaries, and that the number of the merlebers might, by
this means, be considerably reduced, no member of council
hereafter being of a rank above the rank of secretary in the
principal and minor presidencies. This would give reduced
expenses, less delay, and more efficiency in the transaction
of the public business. As regarded the Legislative Colin—
ells proposed to be substitutd for the Supreme Councils,
he (Sir Charles Wood), thought the proposer of the Supreme
Council of Bengal, was bound to say that he did not think
the substitution would be an advantage. The Legislative
Councils at present in India had not certainly succeeded in
conciliating public opinion in India. The difficulty of
creating a Legislative Council in India, however, was very
great—a difficulty arising chiefly from the inevitable con-
struction of such bodies in that country. It was, in fact,
impossible to constitute in Calcutta a Representative Coun-
cil which could act satisfactorily far the interests of all
India ; and he (Sir Charles Wood) believed that the civil
servants of the Crown in the provinces were better calcu-
lated to represent the interests of India than any body
which could be assembled in Culcutta as a Representative
Council. He was of opinion, therefore, that a Legislative
Council for India, to which should be admitted strangers
not servants of the Crown, would be of no use to that
country. There was no doubt that the Licensing Bill
was unfavourably received by the English popuation
of Calcutta • but it should be borne in mind that it
was a usual mode of raising revenue in India, and he
believed that a moderate licensing tax would be the
least:objectionable and the most effective to meet the case of
the whole population of that country. It was not, however,
necessary that an uniform system of taxation should be ap-
plied
to allparts of India, and despatches had been received
from Lord Canning, and the three questions under discus-
sion
were now before committees. Much had been done to
give increased power t o the Central Government as regarded
the public debt. With respect to the amalgamation of the
Supreme and Sudder Courts, he agreed very much with his
hon. friend. He had arrived at that conclusion so long ago
as 1853, and in the following year the measure was ordered
to be carried into effect ; but somehow or another the Go•
vernmeat at Calcutta reeea (wee-reties in the way, and the
consequence•was that in 1850 that which he thought would
have been done in 1854 yet remained unaccomplished. Ile
thought, however, that effectual progress had now been
made towards that end, and he was glad to perceive that
the judges in Madras had reported that the union of the
two courts was both practicable and desirable. He quite
concurred with his hon. friend in thinking that that would
be a most valuable measure. The legal knowledge :of the
Enadish judges would be thus united to the local knowledge
of the Sudder judges, and the result would be a great.im-
proveraent in the' general practice and procedure of the
courts. It was hardly necessary to follow his hon. friend
through the question, which had been so often discussed, of
the guarantee for the Indian loan. It was sufficient, pro-
bably, to state that the loan had been very successful, that
the credit of India in this count! y stood very high. that he
hoped that reductions were at last being brought into prac-
tical operation in India, and that when he made his finan-
cial statement this year ft would prove of a more encourag-
ing character than that which he had last presented to the
house. For these reasons, and considering that the first
three subjects alluded to in the motion were already under
investigation, he did not see that any advantage would be
derived from the appointment of a select committee, and
he should therefore oppose the motion. (ilear, hear.)
Mr. BAILLIE did not believe that any unprejudiced
person who had paid much attention to the subject under
discussion, could come to any ;other opinion than that the
present state of the Indian administration was anything but
creditable to those who were responsible for it. Possessed of
one of the finest districts in the world, with a most indus-
trious and numerous population, we had, nevertheless, a
Government which was practically in a state of insolvency,
and which for many years past has been living from hand
to mouth, on the credit of its past reputation—a reputation
which would long ago have disappeared but for a belief that
the Government of this country must, sooner or later, take
upon itself the responsibility of the Indian debt. Nor was
this his opinion alone, for he was fully corroborated by Sir
H. Frere in his report upon the reorganisation of the
Indian army. Bad as was the financial state of India, the
condition of the people was even worse. Immerse tracts of
fertile land had been thrown out of cultivation, and we had
done nothing to reclaim those lands, or to remedy. those
evils which we had done so much to create. It might be
said; perhaps, that this was the result of former admini-
strations, and that from the new Government of India dif-
ferent consequences would flow. But the new Government
of India was only new in name. There were the same men
in different offices performing the same duties as before ;
and although he would not exactly say of them that they
had learnt nothing and forgotten nothing, he could not
admit that they had effected any great improvement in the
Administration of Indian affairs. He thought, however,
'that the practice of sending despatches direct to the Secre-
tary of State, instead of through the Indian council, was an
improvement upon the old system. The Government had
discovered what they seemed toimagine would prove a golden
remedy for the unsatisfactory state of Indian finance, and
they had sent a gentleman of greet ability over to India to
control that branch of the subject. But he thought that
a mistake had been committed in making Mr. Wilson a
member of the council. If he had been made a special
commissioner,
with full power to deal with the finances of
India, he might have devoted the whole of his time and at-
tention to the object for which he had been
sent tiler?, and
some good might have resulted from his mission. Various
reasons had indeed been given for appointing Mr. Wilson a
member of council, and amongst others the cogent one that
it would have been impossiblei to have given him 08,000
knew not what powers ha(ei
a-
year if he had not been. ar, hear, and a laugh.) He
hbeaydoanudtbtheriosteyotfeandeoarldwinitah
tryi,been entrusted to Mr. Wilson
nteartfinous mil
membere of council—whether he
establish-
ments, or was strictly confined
as
was
most cal and financial mat-
itary
oramted an extraordie
mat-
tars. If the latter,probably the case, the Go-
vernment might just as well hav
nary Chancellor of the Exchequer to draw upie s?heme for
the payment of the National Debt ; believed that
the plan would be just as likely to be successful in
as iu the other. He said this, not because he toutet the
one
case
financial ability of Mr. Wilson, but because he didi n°
think that the real difficulty f India was to be traced to
causes of a fiscal character. It arose rather from the sys-
tem of administration which had been of late years adopted
there, and which was hateful alike to the great body of the
people, and to the native chiefs and nobles of the country;
and hence it followed that it was impossible to carry on the
government of India without those enormous military
establishments which were altogether out of proportion to
the revenues and resources of the country. (Hear, heare
There was the ereat Indian difficulty. The statesmen who
had founded th'at empire, and who had governed it down to
the Marquis of Welleelev, had nod 13v lwava
the assi laid downstance of the the prin-
ciple that India must be govern
native chiefs and nobles. All that had since been changed
and the practice now was to treat those chiefs and nobles
with contempt, and to carry on the government by a centra-
lized system emanating from Calcutta. It was that system
which had become so hateful to the count! y. In illustration
,of this he referred to the case of the Punjaub, which he said
was the mostlavourable that could be taken, because Sir J.
Lawrence was always regarded as the pheeuix of governors
and the Punjaub was considered to have been well
governed, When Sir .1. Lewrsnce was first sent to
the Punjaub, he went as the assistant of his brother,
Sir Henry , Lawrence, sr lie was 1113 chief commis-
gimlet.. The views ef the. two brothers, however, catirely.
,Il %Ted, anti he believed that both wrote to Lord Dalhousie,
stating that eine or other of them must ha recalled. The
views of Sir H. Lawrence were those generally which had
1,..;1ren entertained las the earlier governors, whilst thosO of
they fails John were that; they should earry out in the Punjaub
the system which heel been adoptea in the North-We ,tern
len...vin:lte,dtpti7e)sdeo
I(:at'l't tnees—tbet et ill say, that the WAility should be called
Pl:eduee the written titles to their estates, veld where
for the pee
before Lord Dalhousie, of
osor,!hattlte,
.estatea should be confiscated
eplt melung an exhausted exchequer,
in a
curtailed
eaeectual holders of the estates some life interest
rence,them. These views being laid
with full powers to
who
was sie, he decided in favour of Sir J. Law.
consequently established in the Punjaub
them out, and to succhrriT. out his opinions, He did carry
Mangles, the confiscation of extent that, as stated by Mr.
property hi the Punjaub was
gfater than in any other
this conduct soon manifestedpa
irttsoefllhe country. The effect of
the continued demand
for troops. From every station in In na Britishl troops were
marched into the Punjaub, so that when the
ttarebellion broke
Punjaub,
Sirwhilst
J. Lthaewre-
rence had 30,000 British troops in the run*tit the extraordinaay fact was discovered