The Sun.
London, England, 1860-07-14 00:00:00

son authorised to make a lease by virtue of this act may,
in las manner, enter into a preliminary contract to grant
such lease, which would be binding on all persons who
could be bound by the lease if it had been made."
Mr. DEASY objected to the clause as being inconsis-
tent with the framework of the bill.
Mr. WHITESIDE said t'aat the effect of the clause
which he proposed would be to relieve the county court
judges from a description of business which they could not
completely discharge, and leave them unburdened to the
performance of their other judicial duties.
The clause was read a first time, and the house divided
an the motion that the clause be read a second time.

comes from Switzerland, not from France, and has been so i
recognised by the Powers of Europe. I hope : France will
not be allowed to take credit to herself for the assembling
of this conference. (Hear, hear.) I have only to add that
as France has declined to cede any portion of tho+ neutralised
province of Chablais and Faucigny, because a:kw says that
universal suffrage has given her those provincels, I can state
that the whole operation of that universal saffrage was
most false and fallacious. (Hear, hear.) I am authorised
to say this—that there are about 30,000 adults capable of
exercising the elective franchise in these two provinces ; I
think that 29,000 voted in favour of France ; but only a
few weeks before 12,000, the most important acid respon-
sible inhabitants of the very same provinces, publicly and
without any pressure declared themselves entirely in favour
of union with Switzerland. (Hear, hear.) Now to tell us
that you Won't admit any diminution of that territory, be-
cause universal suffrage has given it to you, is, I say, a
most false and fallacious doctrine, and I hope time Powers
of Europe will not submit to the degradation of accepting
such a position from France. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. B. OSBORNE—I have only Gne or two remarks to
make on this occasion. I must say, after reading the

Ayes
Noes
Majority —7s
Mr. WEITESIDE'S clause was accordingly lost.
The "retrospective clause" proposed by Mr. BUTT led
to a division, when there appeared—
For the clause
Against it lO2
Majority against it
'the clause was lost.
The sitting was suspended at four o'clock.

despatch of the noble lord (J. Russell) produced yesterday,
and to which reference has already been made, I hope I have
every confidence in his administration of the foreign affairs
of the country. I think we may leave the foreign affairs of
England with the utmost confidence in the hands of the
noble lord. (" Hear, hear," and " Oh, oh 1") That is my
opinion. It may not be the opinion of the hon. member for
Cork, but I would rather be wrong with the noble lord
than right with that hon. gentleman. (A laugh.) There

At six o'clock the house resumed.
IRISII VOLUNTEERS.
6 Col. FRENCH gave notice that he would, on the 17th
inst., move for leave to bring in a bill to extend to Ireland
all the powers and rules for the enrolment and organisation
of volunteers now by law applicable to Great Britain.
SENIOR NAVAL LIEUTENANTS.

Mr. DUNN asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whe-
ther the Lords Commissioners had any intention of amelio-
rating the present position of the senior lieutenants of the
navy, either by promotion or increase of pay ; and whether
their lordships had considered the effect of the present sys-
tem of promoting flag-lieutenants to the rank of comman-
der on the termination of an admiral's command.

was a very grave statement made last night—a statement
unusually grave, because my hon. friend who made it never
speaks on light grounds, and his information has generally
been found correct; any statement, therefore, which he
makes is entitled to the fullest consideration of the house.
My hon. friend stated that, at the last conference of V illa-
franca, the Emperor Napoleon 111. made a proposition to

•
the Emperor of Austria to the effect that, on condition that
the latter would join the former in an attack on the Rheinish
Provinces, Lombardy should be secured to Austria.
Mr. KINGLAKE—The condition was that Austria
should acquiesce in that attack.
Mr. B. OSBORNE—WeII, acquiesce in it. I say that
any such statement coming from my hon. friend the member
for Bridgewater is worthy of the most serious attention of
this house—(hear, hear)—because he evidently has means of
obtaining information that are not available to other hon.
members. The question I therefore .wish to put to the
noble lord is, whether he is aware that such a propo-
sition was ever made ? (Hear, hear.) I am unable
to judge of how my hon. friend acquired his knowledge,
but he certainly was cognisant of the project for annexing
Savoy to France long before it was known to any mem-
ber of her Majesty's Government—(hear, hear)—and that
is one reason why I put this question. I can only suppose
that my hon. friend must have received his information
from the Emperor of Austria himself—(a laugh)—because I
believe no one else but the two Emperors was present at
the interview. I should imagine that if any person in this
country could give a satisfactory answer to the house on
this point it would be the noble lord the Foreign Secretary.
I therefore take the liberty of putting this question to him,
at the same time repeating what I said at the outset—viz.,
that I have full confidence in the noble lord's judgment in
conducting our foreign affairs. (Hear.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—With respect, first, to the questions
put to me by my hon. friend the member for Bridgewater,
I will state the facts as far as they are within my own know-
ledge. My hon. friend seems to suppose that certain Powers
have consented to take part in the proposed conference.
Now, the way in which the matter stands is this. The
house will have seen from the papers which have been pre-
sented that the French Government have proposed
three different modes for reconciling the 92d article of the
Treaty of Vienna with the 2d article of the Treaty of
Turin, and that a conference is only one of those modes.
The French Government, therefore, have not summoned
the conference, and asked the other Powers to attend it.
Her Majesty's Government had no difficulty in immediately
saying that they accepted the conference as the best mode
of considering this subject; but it does not appear, as far
as we know, that any definitive answer has been given by
the other Powers of Europe. We have been told—although,
of course, the answer would not come to us, but to the
French Government—that Austria and Prussia have both
shown some hesitation on the matter ; and that, although an
unofficial answer went from Russia that she was willing to
accept a conference, yet her answer was not formal or de-
finitive on the subject. Therefore at present no summonses
have gone out from France for the purpose of convening
the conference ; and it is not yet certain that the other
Powers have assented to that mode. I believe, however,
they all say that if a conference is summoned they will
send representatives to it. With regard to the second ques-
tion put to me, as to whether any preliminary arrangement
has been come to with the Powers respecting the basis of a
settlement, the French Government have from the begin-
ing stated, that the only practical basis is, that the Powers
should endeavour to reconcile the 92d article of the Treaty
of Vienna with the 2d article of the Treaty of Turin, and
they assume that that will be thought a proper basis, be-
cause it allows every latitude to the other Powers to state
their views upon the subject. I imagine no other basis than
"" hn """"^"4 A. to the observe ,44,,.. ui,“ Ltaa
been made more than once in this house, that the French
Government proposes to tie down the other Powers before-
hand against any arrangement by which any part of Savoy
may be separated from France, no attempt has been made
to fetter the other Powers on that subject. The French
Government, however, say that if such a proposal should
be n-ade they will state their objections to its adoption.
(Hear.) With respect to the revelation made by my hon.
friend last night as to what transpired between the Empe-
ror of the French and the Emperor of Austria at Villa-
franca, what happened on that occasion can only have taken
place between those two sovereigns. I believe that no other
person was present at that interview. We have had vari-
ous accounts, more or less official, of the general substance
of what passed at that interview ; but we have not received
any intimation that the proposal or suggestion to which my
hon. friend the member of Liskeard alludes was made. I
have, indeed, heard the story in a vague way, but I do not
know that there is any authority whatever for it. (Hear.)
VOLUNTEERS IN IRELAND.
Mr. BRADY then rose to call the attention of the house
to the subject of the enrolment of volunteers in Ireland.
He said at no time had the people of Ireland been so loyal
and so well disposed to England as at the present moment.
At that moment the force in Ireland was small. Includ-
ing the police it did not exceed 20,000 men, If an attempt
were made upon England the Government would be ob-
liged to concentrate all its forces in England, leaving Ire-
land to take care of itself. This was a serious state of things
to the holders of property in Ireland. He did not partici-
pate in the fears of an invasion. But if Ireland were invaded
the people would be compelled to join the invaders, and
when the latter were driven out there would be a reconfis-
cation of property, and the country would be driven back
in point of property more than a hundred years. He thought
the Government ought to permit the people of Ireland to be
armed to protect themselves. Some forty or fifty years ago
there were volunteers in Ireland, but they were not the
great mass of the people. They belonged to the sectarian
party in Ireland. Tho Roman Catholics had then neither
property nor liberty. Now they had both, and he thought
Government ought to allow them to arm themselves to pro-
tect their property and the institutions of the country.
THE PAPER DUTY.
Mr. WHALLEY then rose, pursuant to notice, to call the
attention of the house to the excise duty on paper, and to
ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it was his in-
tention to enforce the payment of that duty. He said he did
not wish to occupy the time of the house in re-discussing
the subject, but he thought he could suggest a course th it
would afford satisfaction to those members who, like himself,
felt personally aggrieved by the course which the House of
Lords had adopted. Government gave the house a distinct
pledge that if it would consent to put on an extra penny in
the income tax the paper duty should be repealed. He con-
sulted his constituents, and with great difficulty obtained
their consent to the proposition. The question was debated
on the motion of the hon. member for Somersetshire (Sir
W. Miles), and ho voted for the increased income tax on the
distinct understanding that the paper duty should be re-
pealed ; and he considered that the honour of the Crown
was pledged to the repeal of that duty. They might differ
as to the question as to the right of the House of Lords to
reject
to the
reject
h ad ai
tr. bill.s (ela
Cll h: eie n t
trds
many
frome ve r dub
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.he y h
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ou
Andagsd the
reaweret p os
uae
agita-
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r
sub
scribed to litigate the question. He suggested that Govern-
ment should intimate that they wouldnot attempt to enforce
the tax until the matter shall have been brought before
Parliament next year. Anticipating the answer, that so
long as the paper duties were imposed by law the law must
be enforced, he begged to suggest that the precedent usually
followed when there was any dispute as to an excise or

Lord C. PAGET said the Lords of the Admiralty did not
intend to increase the full pay of senior lieutenants. It was
however their intention to grant an increase of half-pay,
according to length of service and in conformity with the
scheme which he had already laid before the house. If
that scheme were carried out, the position and prospects of
those gallant old officers with regard to promotion would
undoubtedly be improved. In answer to the second ques-
tion, he thought he had better read the order which had
already been decided on by the Admiralty, with reference
to the appointment of flag-lieutenants. It was as follows :
—" The Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty have
thought fit to direct that in future whenever a flag-officer
may be permitted to nominate an officer for promotion, it is
to be understood that a lieutenant, when so nominated,
must have completed at least five years' service in that rank
at the date at which the flag officer may be ordered to strike
his flag, of which five years not less than three years shall
have been served in a sea-going ship."
CASE OF DR. GUYDIR.
Colonel GREVILLE asked the Judge-Advocate whether
it was true that Dr. Guydir, assistant-surgeon, Royal Long-
ford Rifles, who was tried by a general court-martial on the
Ist and 2d of June last, was placed in arrest on the 10th
day of May last, and still remains under arrest, and de-
barred from practising his profession, in consequence of the
finding of the court not having been promulgated by the
authorities.
Mr. HEADLAM said it was perfectly true that Dr.
Guydir had, in accordance with the roles of the service,
been placed under arrest on the 10th of May, and that some
delay had taken place before he had been tried before a
court. martial. The trial had, however, come on early in
June, and he bad subseeeently had two audiences of her
Majesty to ascertain her pleasure with respect to the find-
ing of the Court. The matter had eventually been brought
under the consideration of the Commander-ix-Chief, and
he was happy to say that the result was that Dr. Guydir
would be released immediately by order of the Lord-Lieu-
tenant of the county.
INC HKE I T H.
Mr. BLACK asked the Secretary of State for War if,
according to the communication made to the Edinburgh
Chamber of Commerce in July last, it is still the intention
of Government to place a battery on Inchkeith for the
protection of the trade is the Firth of Forth.
Mr. S. HERBERT answered in the affirmative.
WEST AUSTRALIA.
In answer to Lord A. CHURCHILL,
Mr. FORTESCUE said it was not the intention of the
Government to make any change in the system of sending
out convicts to West Australia.
SWITZERLAND AND FRANCE.—THE
CONGRESS.
On the question that the house at its rising should ad-
journ till Monday,
Mr. KINGLAKE rose to ask the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether all the eight Powers, as well as
Switzerland and Sardinia, have consented to take part in
the proposed conference on the subject of the 92d Article
of the Definitive Act of Vienna, and whether there is any
preliminary understanding between the Powers as to the
basis on which the conference will take place. The hon.
gentleman, who was very imperfectly heard, said—a very
few words will suffice to explain the question. Every one
knows that in the contemplation of the eventuality of war
in which either France or Austria should oe engaged it was
provided by the 92d Article of tho Treaty of Vienna that
Switzerland in any such case should remain neutral, and
that the two provinces of which we have heard so mueh—
Chablais and Faucigny—should share that neutrality. The
difficulty which has now been occasioned arises thus :
The King of Sardinia has professed to cede the Emperor
of the French the provinces of Chablais and Faucigny, in
other words, he has professed to cede to the French Em-
peror the provinces which formed the neutralised boundary
of Switzerland. It happens also that Switzerland was vi-
tally injured by this arrangement, because whereas Switzer-
land had an admirable frontier, as the result of the Treaty
of Turin, she finds herself surrounded on all sides but one
by a great military empire. True, such defence as is given
by a European guarantee still remains, but experience has
shown that protection by diplomatic arrangement is of little
avail unless it be combined with a strong military frontier
and a warlike people. The Treaty of Turin acknowledged
in the fairest way the extent to which the contemplated
arrangement was questionable on the part of the Powers of
Europe, and also by Switzerland; accordingly the two
articles of the treaty provide that France should come to an
understanding with Europe generally and Switzerland.
Now Switzerland, being aggrieved by the arrangement made
between these two Powers, desired to appeal to Europe; and
it did so happen that the arrangement made in 1814 and
1815 at Aix-la-Chapelle (instituted a tribunal to which an
appeal in such a case might be addressed—in the event of
either party feeling aggrieved a conference of the Powers
was to take place. It extremely important to bear this in
mind, because it is this. h constitutes the distinction be-
tween a conference in ho ordinary sense of the term, and
that peculiar conference to which Switzerland is appealing.
It would be extremely anomalous and inconvenient that an
ordinary conference should take place without the antece-
dent probability that the Powers should agree. But this is
not a conference of voluntary Powers, but constitutes what
I may truly call a court or tribunal, and summoned by
Switzerland as one of the Powers which states herself ag-
grieved. It seems to me of importance that this conference
should take place, because it is there, and there only, that
negotiations can be effectually carried on. It is of the
greatest importance that the Swiss Confederation, which
from the beginning has shown high spirit, great sagacity,
and a firm and unflinching reliance on the great Powers of
Europe—it is of great importance that Switzerland, called
to negotiate on a matter of vital importance to her, should
be able to negotiate without seeming to abandon that reli-
ance she has always shown in the Powers of Europe. More-
over, it is admitted by all, and by none more fairly than by
France, that the existing state of things must undergo
some alteration in order to be placed in conformity with
the public law of Europe ; and it would be a scandal to
Europe if it could be supposed that there was no tribunal
competent to decide the question. The most obvious ob •
jection to the conference no doubt is the danger that it
might seem to give something like a recognition to the
transaction appealed against ; but I humbly apprehend that
the basis on which the conference will take place will not
be the Treaty of Turin ; it will be the 92d Article of the de-
finitive treaty, combined with the fact that these provinces
have been occupied by the Emperor of the French, and it
will not proceed on the assumption that the treaty signed
on the 24th of March was definitive. (Hear, hear.) Now,
it appears to me that this conference, if it should succeed,
will confer a vet y great blessing upon Europe ; and if it
should fail it will in that event also bring about a state of
things far more desirable than that which now exists, be-
cause it will show, in the most emphatic manner, what will
then be the recognised impossibility of placing the Treaty of
Turin in conformity with the public law of Europe. I beg
now to ask the question.

Sir R. PEEL—I have only one or two words to say to c—us—to—m—dulyshould be adopted, namely, that the office of
the noble lord before he answers the question of my hon.
friend. I don't wish to enter on the general subject, be- inland revenue should take a bond of the parties, and should
not insist on immediate payment.
eause I hope before the end of session it will be fully gone ALLEGED ORANGE OUTRAGE.
144 to• But, as the question of a conference has now been Mr. MAGUIRE asked the Chief Secre'ary for Ireland
,:fidoed, I only hope the noble lord and the Powers. of
'Lir Pe, who have given their assent to it, will see that the if he had been informed that the stained glass window of
lights the Roman Catholic church of Cookstown, county Tyrone,
qduenesietdionti,l
of Switzerland, as a party vitally interested in this was maliciously broken on the morning of Sunday, the Ist
earrie!ully recognised. (Hear.) Now, France has of July, and what practical steps had been, taken by the
over agaiaeatts of Switzerland in this matter. Over and Irish government to maintain the peace, and preserve the
whatever to do
Neetiht:s asserted that Switzerland has nothing persons and property of Catholics from outrage, in this and
between France ~t, the
rone side and Sardinia on the other. other counties in Ulster.
Mr. CORRY, being connected with that portion of the 1
England—have d
added the
Prussia, Austria, and kingdom to which the question referred, felt bound to deny
despatch of the noible lord (Je4)intrarY ; and I must say the
the. paper; tussell) of the 2411 of April the hon. gentleman's right, on the strength of a mere
which is among
rl on the table yeaterda 1, isolated act, probably of some drunken person, to represent
is a most energeti c laid
recapitulatio of the whole question—
YI that there was any ground whatever for apprehending
it is a most admir able and excellenot danger to the lives or property of the Roman Catholic in-.
the noble lord wi: r act iv to it. TheErseP,ch•
hanother observa-
I only hope habitants in what he well knew to be, after all, the most
tion I wish to ma' ;it is this—yranc:
with
thin has that
Sion.. France peaceable part of Ireland. He (Mr. Corry) held in his hand a
Switzerland has : cnything to do
witzerland, letterfrom Mr. Lindsay, the chairman of the petty sessions
has endeavoured to negotiate directlyto w,iathan. held on the Friday folloWing the 15th June, when 17 persons
but Switzerland , rery wisely refused were summoned on account of the occurrence which had
`-, with
France apart frc a n the other Powers. x Fran been alluded to by the hon. member. Mr. Lindsay denied
°I!, e
n tats—she wishes it to be underlays very great stress , ostood that it was an Orange demonstration at all ; that party
that the invitat if m or summons to attend the confftence tunes were played; that the Roman Catholics were in-
comes from Fran no, and not Switzerland. This is a mom suited • , in or,
teach ' not the case; the fact is perfccti, i, veace whatever. The hon. gentleman should, moreover,
important fact-- is this ' roc 11
the reverse. T lea invitation to special conference 0 ect that not even the duke atmosphere of Rome had
prevented the Pope's Irish recruits from giving his holiness