The Sun.
London, England, 1860-02-22 00:00:00

.............t+"'"......—.......--......—.................,
mittee of Cewacil on Education when the report a the
Royal Commission was likely to be presented to Palia-
ment ?
Mr. LANE said that at present the report alluded to wag
not ready for presentation.
THE FRENCH TREATY.
In reply to Mr. E. )3ALL,
Lord PALMERSTON said that it was competent to
either party to this treaty to make a settlement in
reference to any alteration or modification that
might be made in its terms. He would take
that opportunity of moving that the house should adjourn
at its rising that evening until two o'clock to-morrow, it

not, of course, be expected to acquiesce altogether in the
view which the gallant admiral takes of the transaction
in question, but that view was so temperately
expressed, and it was so natural that he should desire to
place before the public his own version of the affair, that if
his statement had stood alone I should not have thought it
my duty to take any notice of it whatever. But I must
say I read with some feeling of surprise the observations
_
which fell from a right hon. baronet, the late First Lord
ta
the Admiralty, who referred to a verdict which he
erestedd.
had been pronounced upon the unfortunate misundton
ing which arose between the gallant adrairal and_ s
of myself—
a verdict which I have never seen, and the ground which
suawo
l
Ido not know. It does seein to me to be a_ ino
eenunut
proceeding, when differences have occurr d betwat
persons in any position of life, that a verdict should be given
in favour of one of the parties without the other being in-
formed either of the result which has been arrived at or of
the grounds upon which it is based. (Hear.) I
westnire
I shall know with the rest of your lordships wha the
verdict is when the papers now moved for have beat placed
in your hands. Of course Ido not intend to enter inta the
question now.
shall only say that I think when those)
papers are laid oin the. table our lordships will see that
was placed in a position of very great difficulty at the com-
mencement of IssB, with the forces at my disposal reduced
by the demands of India and the requirements of the Canton
garrison, with instructions directing me to obtain from the
thinese Government concessions which amounted to an
entire subversion of the traditional policy of that great
empire, and with orders to prosecute my mission in com-
bination not only with the representatives of France, with
whom I had always acted, but also with the represents-
fives of two other Powers, Russia and America, who were
still in the position of neutrals, and from whom, if we were
forced into acts of hostility, we must entirely have broken
off. I think you will gather from these papers that I had
some good reason for believing that prompt;direct, and
energetic action in the shape of a demonstration in the
neighbourhood of the Court of Pekin was the only expedi-
ent which seemed to afford any hope of our being able to
bring to an early close, and without bloodshed, the war in
which we were then engaged with China upon conditions
consistent both with my instructions and with what I be-
lieved to be required by the honour and interests of this
country. (Hear.) I can assure yourlordships that when I pro-
ceeded to the north I went in the firm belief that the gallant
Admiral was entirely cognisant of the policy I intended to
pursue in that quarter, that he thoroughly sympathised
with that policy, and that I might count upon his ready and
energetic support. Ido not refer to private communica-
tions which passed between us, and of which no record is
kept, but I had in my possession at the time a despatch, to
which I may now refer, because it is before your lordships—
a despatch written by the gallant admiral in answer to my
applications for gunboats, not stating that he did not know
the object for which I wanted them, or that the monsoon or
any other difficulty would prevent_ him from supplying
them, but, on the contrary; stating most distifiCtly that the
tad been under his consideration for a long time,
that one of the gunboats had already started, and that pre-
parations were being made for others to follow. (Hear,
hear.) The best proof I could give of the entire confidence
which I reposed in the gallant admiral is the fact that I
went to the north, because it would have been an act of
absolute insanity, to do so had I not been supported by
him when I arrived there. The admiral arnved and
informed me, on the 24th of April, that so far from
the gunboats being at hand, very few of them had
been ordered to leave Hong Kong, and that those few
would not leave until a period long after that at
which I had been led to understand they were to arrive in
the north. I confess that information filled me with the
greatest possible disappointment, and it is very probable
that the despatches which I wrote at that time bore the
reflex of my feelings. My disappointment arose from the
fear which I entertained, not only that the policy I was en-
gaged in carrying out in that quarter would be compromised
by non-arrival of the gunboats, but that the commer-
cial interests, and even the lives of Europeans in the diffe-
rent open ports of China would also be placed in jeopardy ;
because I apprehended that if we made an abortive attempt
of that kind in the north the Emperor would be very likely
to send down word to the authorities in the different pro-
vinces to attack the Europeans in the open ports. Our ap-
prehensions on that head were entirely borne out by what
actually occurred. The Emperor did send down such a
message as I anticipated to the provinces, but it took effect
only at Canton. There the war was revived, and in con-
sequence we were so urgently entreated to send back from
the north the forces we had collected there, on our advance
to Tien-tsin, that we were obliged, as soon as the treaty of
Tien-tsin was signed, to return to Canton. I had, there-
fore, to abandon the intention I always entertained of pro-
ceeding to Pekin myself, in order to deliver to the Emperor
the letter of credence I was charged with. I believe that
to that unfortunate omission the whole of our present dis-
asters are due, because I believe, if I had been able to de-
liver that letter of credence to the Emperor, I should have
been able to have made such arrangements with the Impe-
rial Court as would have disposed of the delicate ques-
tiorrof the personal reception of the British Minister, and
• then none of the difficulties we are now involved in would
have occurred. There is another point I must refer to, be-
cause the misconstruction repeatedly put on it in various
quarters has created, very naturally, a strong prejudice
against me. It has been observed that the despatches to
which I have referred, which were written home at the time,
were not shown by me to the gallant admiral. That is per-
fectly true. I have been for 17 years employed in the public
service, and I do not think I ever showed a despatch to any
one but the Secretary of State. I am quite sure I never
saw any despatch written to the head of a department in
which my own conduct was commented upon. I have
always regarded a despatch as a confidential communication
which the Secretary of State alone was at liberty to relieve
from the condition of secrecy. But I must solemnly say
that when Admiral Seymour made to me the communication
I have referred to, I stated to the gallant admiral that it
was absolutely necessary, not only for my own vindication,
but also in order that her Majesty's Government might be
in possession of the facts of the case, that I should report in
the fullest manner to the Government the extent to which, in
my opinion, our prospects in the north were compromised
by the failure on his part to furnish me with the armament
on which I had relied. I added that if he had any counter
statement to make, if he thought anything in my conduct,
either in the way f omission or commission, was the cause
of his failure, I begged of him to make a corresponding re-
port to the Admiralty, in order that the whole case might
be before her Majesty's Government. My lords, I state this
on my honour as a peer, and am quite ready to repeat it in
any other more solemn form in which an asseveration can
be made. I ought to add, and it is the only sentence in the
whole of this address which I have any satisfaction in ut-
tering, that, apart from the unfortunate misunderstanding
I have alluded to, and which the looseness and forgetful-
ness pertaining to verbal communications may, perhaps,
explain; nothing could be more loyal, more cordial, more
generous, or more gallant than the support which I received
from the navy during the whole course of my service in the
East. I must say I think there were performance of the
British navy during that period of a most remarkable cha-
racter. I think the manner in which we visited many parts
of the coast of Japan and the expedition for 600 miles up an
unknown river, without pilot or chart, accomplished both
in going and returning with perfect safety and good order,
were transactions reflecting the highest credit on the gallant
officers who were engaged in them. In alluding more parti-
cularly to these circumstances, I wish to say at the same time
that an equal degree of gallantry and skill was shown by the
whole fleet in all the operations which occurred, whether
belligerent or otherwise ; and I have only to repeat what
I have more than once said in private and official communi-
cations, That to the happy audacity of my gallant friend
Captain Osborne, on board of whose ship I was for 16
months, I was much indebted for the success of my mis-
sion. (Hear, hear.)
Lord COLCHESTER said that an imputation of the ut
most gravity had been cast upon the conduct of the gallant
admiral who commanded in China at the time the events
referred to by the noble earl took place. He would not then
go into the question which had been raised ; but he begged
their lordships to suspend their judgment on the matter
until all. the papers bearing upon it were before them.
The motion was then agreed to ; and their lordships then
adjourned.

being Ash Wednesday.
MR. DU CANE'S MOTION.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he would avail himself of the
opportunity afforded by the motion of the noble lord to
address the house on a point of order. The honour-
able member for Essex had placed on the table
a motion which was not in conformity with
the general precedents of the house. He was of
oTiaion that no resolution could be proposed in committee
of supply. However, in 1853, it was permitted to the right
hon. member to move a resolution in reference to the in-
come-tax, but that was a precedent which ought not to be
followed, as it was likely to prove dangerous.
(Hear, hear.) He would submit, therefore, to the
house that it was not competent for an hon. member
tp move,a resolution in committee not arising out of a
question of revenue. It was necessary that there should
be an ample discussion on the financial policy of the
right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
which could not be raised on the motion of the hon.

member.
After some discussion on the point of order,
Lord PALMERSTON said that of course the hon.
member would be the best judge of the course he intended
to pursue. If however, he wished to press his motion he
would postpone the further progress of the committee on
the Customs' Act. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DU CANE said he would avail himself of thee:offer
of the noble lord, and proceed with his inotion.
Mr. GLADSTONE observed that he would not move
his resolution relative to foreign wines befoi:q Friday next.
Mr. DU CANE then rose to move, in a subseantive form,
the resolution of which he had given notice in reference to
the financial statement of the Government. In doirsi,g so he
expressed a hope that it was needless to assure the louse
that he felt he was about to trespass upon their attenteqn
under circumstances of no ordinary embarrassment. The'
financial acyeene to •which-he was about to offer hie coppo-
-
sition was one of a character so complicated and so dif-
ficult, and had, moreover, been submitted to the house in
a speech of such remarkable eloquence and subtlety of rea-
soning, that nothing but the kind indulgence and forbear-
ance of hon. members and the confidence which he felt in
the justice of his cause could sustain him in the course
which he had deemed it to be his duty to take, (Hear,
hear.) He entertained no doubt that it would be his fate to
hear during the progress of the discussion to which his mo-
tion would give rise, as he had already heard it faintly
whispered out of doors, that in allowing himself to bring
forward the present resolution he had suffered himself to
be made aninstrument in supporting a party and a factious
movement. He could only say in answer to such a charge
that if the words " party:movement" were to be interpreted
as indicating the existence of a desire on his part to inter-
pose needlessly between the house and the discussion of the
proposals of the Government in Committee with the view
to embarrass the Ministry, and by that means to clieck the
further progress of useful and beneficial legislation, the ac-
cusation was entirely unfounded, and the house, he felt
assured, would deem it unnecessary that he should enter
any more energetic protest against its justice. (Cheers.)
So far from the charge to which he referred being true, he
believed he was giving expression not merely to his own
sentiments, but to those of a large number of hon. gentle-
men. by whom he was surrounded, when he asserted that
it was to them a matter of extreme regret that the finan-
cial proposals of the Chancellor of the Exchequer were of
such a nature as to render it impossible that they could re-
ceive—in their leading features, at least—from his (Mr. Du
Cane's) side of the house an independent support. If, how-
ever by the charge which he had mentioned it was intended
to be implied that he had come forward manfully and
openly to throw down the gauntlet in opposition to the
scheme of the Government, which he believed to be both
unsound and unjust—(cheers)—and thereby openly and
manfully to vindicate what he regarded as true and sound
Conservative policy—if to act so could be termed a " party
move," then he frankly and gladly accepted that descrip-
tion of his resolution. (Cheers.) He might now, perhaps,
be permitted to say, as some return for the compliment
which the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had been pleased to pay him on the previous even-
ing, that if, in the present instance, he found it impossible
to give his proposals a warm support, the right hon. gen-
tleman would, at all events, learn that he was something
better than a mistrustful adherent or a lukewarm partisan
—an open and candid enemy. (Hear, hear.) He
should next proceed to lay before the house as
briefly as he could the main objections which ho enter-
tained to the financial scheme of the Government. He ob-
jected to the budget in the first instance because it appeared
to him not merely to fail to grapple with the financial exi-
gencies of our present position, but to be calculated to leave
the country worse than it found it, and to lead to a state of
increasing financial difficulty. (Hear.) He objected to it, in
the second place, because he was of opinion that the principal
remissions of taxation which it proposed—and he alluded
more especially to the reduction and abolition of the duties on
wine and paper—proposals which, though, perhaps, unob-
jectionable in themselves if made at the proper time, yet
were singtilaily inopportune at the present moment-=were
highly inexpedient, especially when it was borne in mind
that the income-tax was to be continued at a rate higher
than it had ever before been known to have reached in time
of peace. (Cheers.) And lastly, ho objected to the budget
because it seemed to him to be based upon an unnecessary
and one-sided commercial treaty. (Hear, hear.) He had en-
tertained the hope that the determination at which the
house would have arrived on the previous evening might
have relieved him from touching upon the merits of that
treaty, but he had been disappointed in that expectation,
and the house was at that moment, he could not help think-
ing, placed in the anomalous position that they could not,
at any future psi nod amend the terms of the treaty, if they
should deem it expedient to do so, without essentially vitia-
ting some important feature of the budget (hear, hear),
while they could not venture to alter in any of its main
points the budget itself without running the risk of vitiat-
ing and annulling the treaty. (Hear, hear.) Her Ma-
jesty's Government, in. short, acting upon the division
which had taken place the previous evening, called upon
hon. members to open their mouths to the widest possible
stretch, and to swallow in one great gulp the budget and the
treaty combined. (Cheers and laughter.) All he could say
was, that if Parliament and the country could swallow
such a dose, they must henceforth be prepared to make up
their minds to swallow anything which might be presented
to their notice. (A laugh.) He should now, with the per-
mission of the house, proceed to recount as briefly and as
succinctly. as he was able those which appeared to him to
be the main features of our financial position, as stated by
the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer
in introducing the budget. The right hon. gentleman esti-
mated the income of the country for the present year at
£60,700,000 ; its expenditure at £70,100,000 ; the deficit for
the year being thus £9,400,000. Well, that being so, the
right hon. entman, acting upson a very simple, but at the
same timeg a velery novel principle as applied to financial
matters, that his deficit—
" Was great because it was so small,
And if 'twere greater would be none at all."
—la laugh)—proposed to increase it by the reduction of some
and tLe total abolition of other duties to the extent of
£4,000,000 upon articles which, to use the words of the
noble lord the member for London in his first despatch to
Lord Cowley and Mr. Cobden, " are not in general articles
of such primary necessity or such universal use among the
people of the United Kingdom as to entitle them upon that
ground to the special attention of the Government.
(Hear.) The right hon. gentleman had then proceeded to
reduce the deficiency with which he had to deal to the ex-
tent of £2,000,000 by means of sundry savings in the Re-
venuereductionsdeficiencyhave
Department, by making certain allowances for the
increasec it de
beenohuf
accordingt would oeua syl dew e her would,l consequent
taoshyssunder
ur dnryo
tnihoet
sew
mate, £11,500,000, which deficiency he proposed to supply
charges.ustcontemplatedcircumstances,
hec
in part by re-imposing the income-tax at the rate of 10d- in
the pound, thus securing a sum of £8,472,000. He .re .11
imposed also the extra duties on tea and sugar, and called
in the hop and malt credits to the extent of £1,400' 000
These amounted to £11,972,000. Then by the treaty,
ac-
cording to the right hon. gentleman's own showing,
we
should have a surplus of £470,000. But he asked the com-
mittee to observe, in the first instance, that of these items
there was one certainly of £539,000, or thereabouts, that
must be looked upon as an item of a purely speculative
character in amount, anon was supposed to be derived from
the increased consump of wines and spirits. They must
also bear in mind that, ace nding to this scheme, they would
have to submit to a further reduction of these duties to the
extent of £250,000. He would next ask them to observe
and hop credits
that, by anticipating.the malt _ to the amount
of £1,400,000, the right hon. gentleman .was, in point of
remaining portion of a cum of
fact, anticipating the
been con "cl db si re an
in y no-
£2 500 b
000, which had hitherto _
e
the right hon. gentleman hidmself,, the
body more than
Government to the malting and hop
light of a loan by the Gover
f while on the one
interests of the country ; and, there ore,
• • • these credits, he caused very consi-
hand, by anticipating .
ry to the smaller mem-
derable annoyance and positive inju
n
ht h 0 gentleman
hers of the malting interest, the rig .
availed himself at the same time of an entirely temporary
mpora
expedient; and the house would be fully justified in assurn-
ing that no such sum as £1,400,000 would be forthcoming
next year to meet the financial exigencies of the country.
There was a third matter to which he would call the atten-
tion of the house, and that was that the right hon gentle-
men postpones for a period of three years the payment of
£1,000,000 of Exchequer-bonds, which became due in the
present year. These bonds would therefore have to be re-
issued, and, therefore, one of the very first happy results
they had to encounter in this year of bliss, that was to have
been marked by the falling in of the Terminable Annul tio s,
was the addition of a very c nisiderab'e amount to the un-
funded debt of the country. (Hear, hear.) He must next
ask the house to bear in mind that the income tax of 10d. in
the pound and the war taxes on tea and sugar were only re
imposed for one year, and therefore the Chancellor of the
Exchequer in the year 1831-62 whoever he might have the
good or bad fortune to be—for lie confessed he never consi-
dered the position of the Chancellor t'f the Exchequer to
be a very enviable one—the Chancellor of the Exchequer
in 1361-62 could not possit4 count upon a renewal of this
tax without obtaining the formal consent of Parliament.
Let him early the house for a moment in imagination to the
commencement of the 1861,andaskthem
year
he their novel financial position. Unless the house should
thought, most • the present state of the continent he
improbable, to sanction a material reduction
of the army and navy
very much the same rts estimates, the expenditure would be
and to this he might aieo aaaseesent—roaoomo at least;
tof the income ? They
£1,000,000 Exchequer bonds.
What, then, would be the
would have virtually parted state
with the income tax and with
the tea and sugar duties; they would have
malt duties ; and they would have done alitatticipated the
mhad pledged themselves to a further reductionertelieTleye

HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The following bills wero read a second time :—London
and North Western Railway No. 2) ; London Railway
Depot and Storehouses ; Moy River Navigation : Conway.
Llanrwst, and Bettws y Coed Railway ; Denbigh, Ituthin
and Corwen Railway; and Ulster Railway and Corpora.
tion of B7lfast.

THE SUN,:,!LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING FEBRUARY 22, \ 1860.

tleman had said, " If I were a Bordeaux wine merchant, I
should be in raptures with the proposed budget. If I were
an English wholesale dealer, depending for custom upon the
higher classes of society, I should be simply indifferent.
But if I were on Englisn retail dealer, dopending upon the
lower classes, and, having, as I inevitably should, to meet
increased prices and diminished consumption as its first
effects, I should oppose it tooth and nail. (Hear, hear.)
Having considered the wine duties, he would next refer to
the intended abolition of the paper duty. He did not stand
forward to advocate the retention of that duty as a perma •
nent feature of our taxation, nor would he advocate the
retention of any tax which might be in any way injurious
to the spread of education, He would net attempt to follow
the right hon. gentleman into the interesting and ingenious
account which he gave of the various trades in whose manu-
factures paper formed a principal ingredient
feat still less
would he attempt to grapple with the pleasing e, No.
2 of the budget, which referred to the blessings about to
fall upon the agricultural population by covering the banks
of all our streams with innumerable paper-mills. (Hear,
hear, and laughter.) He might safely leave that portion
of the right hon. gentleman's remarks to be dealt with by
the great Leviathan of the press, which, a day or two since,
in a few brief sentences, completely dispelled the vision,
which he had conjured up. But when the right hon. gen-
tleman said that he considered himself bound, to no small
extent, by the fact that a resolution of the house had con-
demned the tax, he (Dlr. Du. Cane) had heard that statement
with surprise. (Hear hear.) If a vague and shadowy reso-
lution of the house, passed at anytime, was to be a sufficient
justification of the abolition of a tax, how could the right hon.
gentleman justify for a moment the retention of the income
tax ? (Hear, hear.) If there was one tax which more than
another the house had condemned as a permanent feature of
taxation, not by one vague resolution, but repeated majori-
ties led by the right hon. gentleman himself, and even by
statute, it was the income tax. (Hear, hear.) If there was
one tax which more than another the present Government,
judging from the former professions of its members, should
have let untouched, it was the paper duty. (Hear, hear.)
In his memorable budget of 1853 the right hon. gentleman
might have dealt both with the wine duty and the paper
duty. He had then all the financial world open to him,
but he left both those duties unaltered. (Hear, hear.)
From that time until 1857 the house heard very little in-
deed of reduction of taxation. (Hear, hear.) But in the
year 1857 the right hon. baronet the present Home Secre-
tary, who was then Chancellor of the Exchequer, made a
financial _statement, in which he thus spoke of the paper

duties to the amount of £250,000; they would be pledged
also—though on this point hewas not so clear—to a further
sacrifice of paper duty ; and, allowing at the same time for
the payment of the remaining portion of the £250,000 of
the Spanish debt, there would ba a total deficit of £12,172,000
(Hear, hear.) Deductingthis sum fromtho present revenue,
It would leave exactly £58,392,030 to meet £71,100,000 of
expenditure, and the Chancellor of the Exchcquer would
therefore have to announce to the House of Commons the
pleasing intelligence of a deficit of £12,700,000. (Hear.)
If they took into consideration, as he thought they were
bound to do, the probability that, instead of an increased,
there would be a diminished consumption resulting from
the reduction of the wine duties, with a reduction of the
malt tax arising from a diminished consumption of beer—
(hear, hear)--they would be very safely justified in assum•
ing that the deficiency would not be far off £13,000,000.
The house must seriously consider what was likely to be
the position of Parliament at that time. The night of Feb.
20, 1860, must have breia destined long ago by the fates to
be a very remarkable era In the annals of Parliament. It
was not often that their Parliamentary bill of fare was so
luxuriously catered for as it had been on that memorable
occasion with dainties of the first class. Seldom, if ever,
did it happen that the Government of the country had to
choose in presenting to the house on the same evening be-
tween three subjects of such vital importance to the future
welfare of the country as a French treaty, a budget, and a
bill for the amendment of the representation of the people.
(Hear, hear.) Although he had not the honour to agree in
many political doctrines of the hon. member for Birming-
ham, yet, from what he had read of his speeches out of
doors, the hon. member would concur with him when he
said that the subjects of a budget and a Reform Bill were
very nearly allied—(hear, hear)—inasmuch as it must be
the general tone and character of the Parliamentary majo-
rity of that house that must ultimately determine the gene-
ral nature and incidence of the taxation of the country.
(Hear, hear.) The noble lord, owing to circumstances over
which altogether he had no control, had postponed the pro-
duction of his Reform Bill till what he sincerely hoped
would be a more auspicious occasion. It was not for him
on the present occasion to widen the field of discussion by
endeavouring to anticipate what the probable provisions of
the Reform Bill might be ; but he thought at the same
time he should be interpreting the general wish both of the
house and the people of the country when he said that
there was a growing feeling among both that this great
constitutional question of Parliamentary Reform should
not be made the stalking-horse by which to hurl Ministry
after Ministry from office, and that they should, if possible,
during the present session endeavour to effect a satisfactory,
settlement of the question. (Hear.) Let the house in-
dulge him in what at the present moment must appear to
be rather a wide stretch of the imagination. Conceive the
budget passed, the Reform Bill passed, with a new Parlia-
ment elected by constituencies into which many new and
popular elements had been introduced—what would be the
condition of affairs with which that Parliament would have
to scrapple ? They would have, in the first place, a defi-
ciency of £13,000,000 to deal with—an income tax f 10d. in
the perulla, renewed for one year, shortly about to expire.
They ves:ald find the tax which eve ner statesman in the
Parliamecitizry history of the country, !Tom Mr. Pitt down
to Sir R. Pled, and from Sir R. Peel to the present Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, bad successively deprecated as a
permanent elerOent in the taxation of the country. What
would be the ineitable eonsequence ? That house would
then stand between Scylla and Charybdis. If they p
the budget and canl•ed into effect the provisions of the
andtrea tym,otshtehyarmwoulelsds hsoauvre,7zesutofoffinsdetvrejeatl
toaxaf theti most useful
oftw oCoemvimlsownsoulwdouicedrtsaeinizleyweintsbnea—videittthyeurpthone reformed
was presented ready to their hands, and they would see this
elifeormenegidnHe House
tar, which they had so long deprecatd, in its most odious
form, established as a permanent feature in our system
must
of
taxation, and gradually mounting to a height which
make it utterly intolerable ; or, on the other hand, they
would see a hardly less dangerous course adopted—they
would see an ignorant impatience of expenditure running
riot in that house, developing its first effects in the revival
of that miserable cheese-paring economy which had already
brought such disastrous consequences on this coderinguntry—
at
which disbelieved in war till the enemy was thun
our gates, and laughed to scorn all idea of national defence.
(Hear, hear.) Let the Chancellor of e Exchequer beware
how, with that great gulf yawnin th
g before , sought
to reimpose this tax in its aggravated shape. He would say
to that right hon. gentleman—" Can it be you, who ex-
hausted all the power of your matchless eloquence and
closest subtlety of reasoning to prove the inquisitorial and
objectionable nature of this tax, the utter impossibility of its
retention in any form as apermanent feature of our taxation,
and the expediency of reserving it as a potent engine for spe-
cial occasions—can it be you who are now throwing aside
all thought of the future, heedless of the reckless legislation
whickyour present proposals may provoke ?" (Hear, hear.)
Who did not remember the budget of 1853 and the brilliant
oration which had since served as a textbook of political
economy to every schoolboy—who did not remember how
the right hon. gentleman minutely analysed and scattered to
the winds every conceivable scheme by which that tax could
be established in a graduated form? And now, when the
hour for the:financial raillenium had arrived, the same right
hon. gentleman remorselessly put a new load on their backs,
cut the rope, and sent the vessel of the State adrift in the
vortex of a financial whirlpool. (Hear, hear.) There were
various reasons why a reduction of that tax might have come
with a peculiar grace from the right hon. gentleman. The
people of this countryhad without a murmur made the sacri-
fices and borne the burdens of war. They had consented to
endure a heavy taxation on the necessaries of life because
they believed that as soon as an extraordinary exigency was
passed measures would be proposed that would carry wel-
come relief to every cottage in the land. These hopes, how-
ever, seemed doomed to disappointment. The people now
learnt for the first time in our history that they were to be
subjected to an oppressive load of taxation in order to assist
a neighbour in difficulties, who was himself—for they could
not conceal it from themselves—the cause of their extrava-
gant expenditure. (Hear.) They knew that a lavish and un-
called for generosity to France was openly vaunted as a noble
achievement for the Government of this country. (Hear.)
Knowing this, the people would ask where were the four
millions of indirect taxation that they were about to sacri •
flee so recklessly ? That question the Conservative party
were now endeavouring to have answered; and when it was
said that party connexion should have nothing to do with
this movement, he for one thanked God that the name and
traditions of party were not yet extinct ; that there was
still a party left in the country—call it Conservative or call
it what they pleased—which would put forth its strength
and animate its ranks to support the effort of an inde-
pendent member to confront oppression and quell injus-
tice. (Cheers.) Let him now turn to another part of the
question, and let him say that, while he thought the duties
now pressing heavily on the necessaries of life had the first
claim to revision, he would not deny that the reduction of
the wine duties might be fairly dealt with at some
future period. Putting aside, however, for the moment,
the prior claim of the great consuming classes of the
country to have some remission of the malt-tax and the
duties on tea and sugar, he would look at the reduction of
the wine duties as an abstract question, both in regard to
its probable effect on the interest of the consumer and its
effect on the public revenue. Since the scheme of the Go-
vernment was first proposed he had consulted several high
authorities on this matter, and they one and all agreed in
thinking that, whatever might be the expediency of an ulti-
mate reduction of the wine duties, never was there so inop-
portune a time for making that reduction as the present.
(Hear.) The right hon. gentleman had drawn a pleasing
picture of the halcyon days about to arrive, when under his
proposed arrangement wine would no longer be a rich man's
luxury, and the choicest vintages of France and Spain would
flow in upon us. It was therefore necessary, however pain-
ful the task, to arouse the right hon. gentleman from his
happy dream and conduct him back to the realm of sober
realities. (A laugh.) It was an undoubted fact, which
could not be gainsaid, that at that this moment, partly from
the continued vine disease and partly from a :succession of
bad harvests, the stock of wine in the hands of the principal
dealers in the south of France and in Spain was now so
diminished that nothing but the return of four or five con-
secutive harvests of more than average productiveness could
restore that stock to its normal condition. Another fact, to
which he challenged contradiction, was that the wine mer-
chants of Bordeaux, anticipating a very considerable rise in
price as the first effect of the reduction in the duty, were
now withholding all the stock they possibly could from the
English markets, and in many instances the Spanish wine
dealers were refusing to part with their stock at all. He also
believed that the great bulk of the rehiil dealers in this city
were now laying in their stocks for the year in order if pos-
sible to escape the rise in price which they foresaw as the re-
sult of the reduction of duty. But supposing no rise at all
occurred what was that price likely to be? He held in his
hand an extract from the circular of the London correspon-
dent of one of the largest and best known houses at Bordeaux.
He found from that circular that the cheapest wine, pure
and sound to bear exportation, cost at the rate of LO per
hogshead at Bordeaux, which, under present rates of duty,
would bring the cost in this country to something like 255,
or 265. per dozen, and, with the proposed reduced duties
would cost 20s. or 21s. per dozen. That might be a pure
wine certainly, but it would be of the thinnest and poorest
character, utterly unfitted, unless a great change should
take place in English tastes, for English palates. (Hear,
hear.) That was the beverage that was to flow into this
country in such a stream as to supplant the principal be-
verage of the country, to check the cultivation of barley,
and to inflict almost irreparable injury upon the maltsters,
the farmers, and the brewers of this. country. (Hear.) The
very idea of such a thiae., however, appeared so absurd that
he should not presume tol stand before the committee as the
farmer's friend with an agricultural grievance, but he must
ask the right hon. gentleman what sort of even-handed
justice it was he proposed to deal out in the name of free
trade when he left the highly-taxed growers awl manufac-
turers of the principal beverage of the country t enter into
competition with the untaxeeforeigner. (Hear, hear.) It
might be that some of the Spanish wines would be more
acceptable to English tastes than cheap French wines, but
it must be borne in mind that Spain was suffering under
the effects of repeated bad harvests, and that the stock of
wine in hand was very much diminished. The right hon.
gentleman had treated the house with an interewin and
pathetic narrative of the evils of adulteration, and from his
language it would almost appear that adulteration was a
crime unknown to foreign countries and peculiarly indige-
nf
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frontier, and after undergoing a process of conversion at
Bordeaux, it was returned across the frontier as prime Bor-
deaux wine. (Hear, hear.) There was a port in the Gulf
of Lyons called Cotte, the chief business of whose popula-
tion was nothing more nor less than wholesale
(Hear,adulteration.
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what was
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wines, and supposing that the duties were lowered, as pro-
competition with our own adulterators at home, anestoed nfur-
nishing us with a cheap wine,of unknown manufacture with
what effect, to quote the right hon. gentleman's own words,
upon the British public he need not say ? Reverting, how-
ever, to the possible supply of pure wine, he would give an
instance within his own knowledge of what had occurred in
Australia. Smile time since one of the largest firms at Bor-
deaux sent to Melbourne a large consignment, including
4,030 dozen of a wine which cost about 10s. per dozen at
Bordeaux. At that time wine was generally cheaper, and
consequently the particular wine he refer] ed to was of a
better quality than could now be produced for the same
price. After a considerable interval, the Bordeaux mer.
chants received a let ter from their correspondent at Mel-
bourne, informing thorn that the wine in question was un-
saleable among the lower and middle classes, and requet
*eher rice might be
that wine of a superior quality and hic, p
sent in its place. (Hear.) And that was
s the article from
which, during the present year, the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer expected to derive £530,000 at the reduced scale of
duties. (Hear.) Upon that ingeeiaus but speculative
theory the committee were called upon to supersede our na-
tive beverage by taking off duties upon wine, which was a
now and roust for some time continue to be emphatically
luxury of the rich, and yet to continue the war taxes upon
tea and sugar, which were the necessaries of the poor. (Hear,
hear.) Ho would conclude his observations upon the sub-
ject of the wine duties by quoting the remarks lately made
to him by a gentleman intimately acquainted with Bordeaux
and well up in the mysteries of the wine trade. That gen-

" I onfess, having carefully considered the subject, Ido
not believe that the total abolition of the paper duty would
produce to the ordinary purchaser of books any appreciable
advantage. Therefore, Sir, without at all denying the
claims of the paper duty to be considered at a time when
our expenditure may be less and our revenue may be greater,
I cannot admit that at the present moment it is a proper
subject for remission."
(Hear, hear.) The house must bear in mind that at that
time the right hon. baronet was a rara avis in financial
history—a Chancellor of the Exchequer with a surplus;
and such was the condition of financial plethora he enjoyed
that the hon. member for the West Riding of Yorkshire
said he could only aptly compare him to a prize ox in the
midst of butchers. (Cheers and laughter.) But upon what
grounds and upon what theory of taxation did the right
hon. baronet go on to justify the retention of the paper
duty ? The right hon. baronet justified it upon a theory of
taxation which for the most part commanded his cordial
assent, but which was as nearly as possible the direct oppo-
site of the present budget. (Hear, hear.) The right hon.
baronet quoted from the writings of Adam Young :
"If I was," says Adam Yonne-r', "to define a good sys-
tem of taxation, it should be that of bearing lightly on an
infinite number of points, heavily on none. In other words,
that simplicity in taxation is the greatest additional weight
that can be given to taxes, and ought in every country to
be most sedulously avoided."
(Cheers.) A few days afterwards a still more extraordinary
scene took place in the house. The present Chancellor of
the Exchequer made a furious onslaught upon the financial
statement, and condemned the budget as being based upon
principles of finance utterly contrary to any which the
country had before adopted. It seemed that those high
financial authorities had been able to compose their differ-
ences, as they now sat side by side in the same Cabinet.
(Hear.) He begged the house to listen to the terms of the
memorable resolution on the paper duty :
" That this house is of opinion that the maintenance of
the excise duty on paper as a permanent source of revenue
would be impolitic."
The house would see at once that it was a resolution assert-
ing a mere abstract principle of the very vaguest character,
and could not, by the widest possible construction, be sup-
posed in any way to fetter the house as to the right time to
deal with the paper duty. (Hear.) Perhaps the house
would agree with him that one of the shortest and most
sensible speeches ever made in Parliament was made on that
occasion by his hon. friend the member for Malden, who
interrupted the Speaker in putting the question to say, " I
suppose it is fully understood that the resolution means no-
thing V' (Cheers.) It was a remarkable fact that the nearer
they approached the present time the stronger were the ob-
jections of members of the present Government to deal with
the paper duty. The language of the right hon. baronet in
1857 was sufficiently strong, but it was very mild compared
with the language of the noble lord the Foreign Secretary.
On a subsequent occasion the noble lord said :
" The house would recollect that last year the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer proposed that the income tax
should be kept up at 7d. in the pound, and instead of ls. 3d.
the duty on tea should be ls. 6d.' with a proportionate in-
crease of the sugar duties. This year they had allowed
the income tax to fall from 7d. to sd. in the pound, but
they had kept up the duty on tea to ls. 5d., and retained
the proportionate increase of the sugar duties. It was,
therefore, almost a matter of good faith that when next
there was a reduction of taxes those duties on tea and sugar
should be reduced, which were, in fact, war duties, and
there could be no greater claim for reduction than upon
articles which entered so largely into the comforts of the
people."
(Cheers.) That was an argument which he must say he
entirely approved of. But a change appeared to have come
over the spirit of tho noble lord's dream. The Chancellor
of the Exchequer this year proposed to retain and increase
the income-tax, to re-impose the war duties on tea and
sugar, and to abolish the paper duty. And the noble lord
sat by his side and applauded the proposition. (Cheers.)
Throughout this elaborate financial scheme, and in this
part particularly, he discerned a desire to conciliate the
goodwill and support of a certain section, without whose
support they were told that no Administration could en-
dure for a day. He remembered to have heard the hon.
'bomber for Rochdale (to whom they were indebted for the
construction of this French treaty) say that he addressed
the house in the name of the people who lived in towns.
They had before them a budget which bore but too plainly
a town image and superscription. If there were one epithet
which would better describe it than another it was calling
it a Manchester budget. (Loud cheers.) The Presidenta
of the Board of Trade was a very able and distinguished
member of the house. His administrative abilities were
doubtless as useful in the Cabinet as his destructive powers
were effectual out of tile Cabinet. Yet, great as they might
be, he could not help thinking the people would consider
they purchased those talents at a somewhat dear rate with
dear tea, dear sugar, and an increased income-tax. (Cheers.)
The Chancellor of the Exchequer told them the other night
that if they wished permanently to benefit a people, they
should set free their trade. In that doctrine, if carried
out honestly and impartially, he entirely concurred. But
he thought that at the present time the middle classes
would feel they were poorly recompensed for an:in-
creased income-tax by a dream of cheap wine, and
the masses of the working population would feel
they were sadly compensated for the sacrifices which they
had cheerfully made by dear tea and dear sugar. (Cheers.)
There were doubtless many important questions which would
be sure to arise in the course of the discussions—many
taxes, no doubt, in the scheme to which opposition would be
made—but they were already provided with appropriate
champions. Such questions as the grievances of the silk
trade, of the licensed victuallers, and of the hop-brewers
would bettor be dimmed further on in committee, inas-
much as they did not go to the heart of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's propositions. But from the number of amend-
ments which were rapidly gathering paper, on the from the
number of grievances which had been put into his hands
ever since he had given notice of his amendment, and from
the number of public meetings which had been held up and
down the country, the right hon. gentleman must be pretty
well aware by now what a nest of hornets he had got
into. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) But he would now go on
to consider his last objection to the budget—its foundation
on a one-sided and uncalled for commercial treaty. One of
the sentences in the Chancellor of the Exchequer's speech
the other evening most loudly cheered by those around
him was that in which he said, •‘ We have done doubly
good—good for ourselves if France had done nothing, and
doubly good bee ruse France had done a great deal." The
right hon. gentleman himself must admit that the converse
of that proposition was true, and that if what he had done
could be shown to be financially bad, it was doubly bad in
connection ith a one-sided treaty. It had been his fortune
to enter the house just at the close of the great struggle be-
tween free trade and protection, and he was one of those
who went through what was called the ceremony of "bow-
ing the knee," but in thus bowing to the voice of the coun •
try he had always understood that the policy of free trade
was hereafter to be adopted by the country in its fullest and
most extended sense. (Hear, hear.) But the more he
scrutinised this treaty the more puzzled was he to discover
on what principle it was framed. If it was free trade they
were aiming at, why, in the name of the past free trade,
had they taken up with such an extraordinary fhea-
sure as a free trade treaty ? It could not be re-
ciprocity surely, for reciprocity he had always understood
must be conducted on fair and equal terms. To use a fa-
miliar instance, if you asked a man to your house one week
and he asked you back to his the next, and treated you with
much the same fare, that would be reciprocity; but if you
were called upon to admit into your house at all times and
seasons a crotch etty neighbour, who kept his door absolutely
slammed in your face for one year to come, and then only
promised to open it half-way, keeping up a good strong
chain all the time to see how he liked you, that was not re-
ciprocity. (Cheers.) The house had been told the other
night, that our old friend Protection, having been driven
from the palaces of the earth, had taken refuge in holes and
corners. The hon. member for West Norfolk, if the quo-
tation had occurred to him, while defending the rags and
remnants of his ancient faith, might have replied,—
" Extrema per illos
" Justitia excedens terris vestigia fecit."

(Cheers.) But this was the unkindest cut of all, that the
arch high priest of free trade should abjure the worship of
his favourite deity, and fall down on his knees before the
snonstrum horrendum called one-sided reciprocity. (Cheers.)
The privilege which the House of Commons had always
valued most highly was that of remitting and imposing
taxation, but if it passed the treaty in its present shape, it
would be cutting off valuable sources of indirect revenue,
and fettering in a most arbitrary manner the whole system
of taxation for years to come. (Cheers.) No matter how
great the financial exigencies of the country might be—no
matter how great the political difficulties in which we were
involved—once bound by this treaty, our hands would be
inextricably tied unless France consented to unloose them.
What man could tell what would c e.mr even in six months P
Iu 1853 the right hon. gentleman had endeavoured to cast
the horoscope of 1860, and signally failed. (lcer, hear.)
There was but one little cloud in the sky, but it was un-
heeded, and in a short year we drifted into war on a peat..
budget. (Hear, hear.) The political and financial horizon was
now eark enough, but it was fondly hoped that with a war
buds:ref we should drift into the haven of lasting peace. He
might be blind, but he felt cons inced that he should have
companions in his blindness, when he professed himself
unable to discover the objects of this treaty. Was it to
enable the Emperor of the French to exhaust our resources
of steam coal, and to enable him to supply himself with one
of the most important elements of naval warfare? If tha
were the case, the proposal should have his most decided op-
position: (Hear, hear.) According to the hon. member for
Birmingham, one colliery in the north would suffice for the
whole French navy; but if that were the case, how was it
that the price of coal was rising, and that that which was
now a luxury for rich and poor promised soon to become an
expensive luxury for the rich alone ? (Hear, hear.) If the
object of this treaty were free trade, how could the reten-
tion of the differential duties on foreign shipping in French
ports be fora moment defended ? (Hear.) If it were a fair,

impartial treaty, why should the Government have endea-
voured to stifle the discussion of it ? why should it have been

smuggled into the house and shaken out of the same bag as
the budget —a pair of worthy companions undoubtedly?
(Hear.) It was said that a similar treaty was one of the most
glorious acts of Mr. Pitt ; but now it appeared that Mr.
Pitt's policy was so antiquated that it was necessary totally
to reverse it. He took the treaty first, and then the budget ;

we were to have the treaty and the' budget together, and
then, when the mischief was done, there was to be a sepa-
rate discussion on the treaty It was said that this haste
was necessary in order to defeat the opposition of the French
Legislative Assembly, which in this instance spoke the
wish of a large majority of the French people ; but this was,
in his opinion, an additional reason why the measure should
receive the strongest opposition. They were told that the
extension of commercial intercourse with France would

carry with it, to the furthest ends of Europe, the bless-
ings of peace and civilisation. An object such as this
would at all times enlist his hearty eoncurrence ; but he
ventured to question the means by which these blessings
were to be extended, and the permanence of an alliance
which was to be cemented in such a fashion. He had now

brought to a close his remarks on the financial propositions
of her Majesty's Government, having, he feared, but feebly
and inefficiently discharged the duty which he had under-
taken. He had endeavoured to show that the financial

scheme of her Majesty's Government was one which failed
to grapple with the exigencies of the time, and had disap-
pointed the just expectations of the people ; he had at-
tempted to show that it was based on unsound and danger-
ous principles of finance, that it was clogged with a com-
mercial treaty, and that it forced a rivalry of commercial
interests upon an irritated and distrustful nation. The
proposition had been recommended to them as a budget of
peace—he called on the house to reject it emphatically as a
budget of war—of war to the future security of our domestic
interests, and to the future permanence and tranquillity of
our foreign relations. He had listened and shared in the
thrill of admiration at that magnificent peroration in which
the right hon. gentleman commended his financial scheme
to an impartial trial at the bar of the British Legislature
and of British public opinion. That impartial trial he did
not doubt they would both receive at the hands of Parlia-
ment. But the right hon. gentleman had so often charmed
the house with his eloquence—his tongue had so often
dropped manna, and made the worse appear the better
reason—that if it vtere left to some novice in Parliamentary
discussions to decide, he would feel at a loss whether to
select him as a model for future study or for present imita-
tion. If, in the course of his varied career, he had shown
that he could with signal success invoke an English House
of Commons to sanction his own elaborated schemes of
financial policy, he had shown also that for the measures of
a rival he had spells to invoke them to censure and con-
demn. (Hear, hear.) It might be that in the hands of an
uninstructed novice the charm of the arch-magician would
lose its power—it might be that the arrow which he now
ventured to borrow from his quiver would recoil upon him-
self—(hear, hear).- —and he would, therefore, conclude the
imperfect observations which he had addressed to the house
in the same words which, eight years ago, summoned the
house to pronounce the doom of a Conservative budget and
make an end of a Conservative Administration :

" I feel it my duty to use that freedom of' speech which
I am sure, as Englishmen, you will tolerate, when I tell
you that if you give your assent and your high authority
to this most unsound and destructive principle on which
the financial scheme of the Government is based—you may
refuse my appeal now—you may accompany the right hon.
gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer into the lobby;
but my belief is that the day will come when you will look
back upon this vote—as its consequences sooner or later
unfold themselves—you will look back upon this vote with
bitter, but with late and ineffectual regret."
(Cheers.) The hon. gentleman concluded by moving the
following resolution :—" That this house, recognising the
necessity of providing for the increased expenditure of the
coming financial year, is of opinion that it is not expedient
to add the existing deficiency by diminishing the ordi-
nary revenue, and is not prepared to disappoint the just ex-
pectations of the country by re-imposing the income tax at
an unnecessarily high rate."
Mr. BENTINCK seconded the motion.
Mr. LEVESON GOWER said he believed the budget,
as a general scheme, carried out the great commercial policy
initiated by Sir R. Peel. For that policy he entertained
the greatest admiration ; but the motion which they had
just heard was in every respect opposed to it. There could
be no doubt that all the objections they had heard against
the treaty were based upon protectionist principles. There
was no force in the objection that it was a one-sided treaty,
for, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had explained, they
could not expect to receive indemnity from another coun-
try, but should be satisfied at receiving additional benefit
from the engagement -itself. (Hear, hear.) Protected
trades suffered by the very protection afforded to them.
Mr. Ellice, of Coventry, and Mr. Williams, of Maccles-
field, objected to the free trade proposals of the late Mr.
Huskisson on the ground that, if they were carried, Coven-
try and Macclesfield would be ruined. He was sure
that the hon. member for Coventry was now glad that
he had failed in opposing Mr. Huskisson's proposition,
because the state of Coventry and Macclesfield showed the
advantages which had resulted to them from free trade.
Next it was said that the reduction of the wine duty would
not increase the sale of wine. But this he denied, for on
referring to Mr. M'Cullagh'a book, he found it there clearly
demonstrated that the reduction of duty always led to a
large increase in the sale of the article on which the reduc-
tion took place. But it was said that wine would never be
an article of consumption here, as it was not suited to the
taste of the people or to the climate of England. But what
was the fact ? Why let them take the article of claret. In
Holland the importation of that character of wine was five
times what it was in this country, and though the popula-
tion of Holland was considerably smaller than that of this
country, yet the consumption of wine was fifty times greater
than it was in this country. Yet Holland was a much
colder country than England. The facts were applicable
to Sweden, Hanover, and other northern countries. Now,
until the duty on wine was lessened, they never could hope
to establish free trade with France, but a reduction of the
wine duty would lead in the end to this desirable result.
Then, with respect to coal, it was said that by taking off
the duty on that article, they were giving up an advantage
to France which would be highly prejudicial to this country.
But how so ? Not, certainly, as regarded the quantity of
coal produced in this country, for, according to the autho-
rity of the best geologists, there would be sufficient coal in
this country to supply the industrial requirements of this
country for the next 2,000 years. This being so, he thought
it was time enough at the end of that time to consider the
effect of foreign ports being opened for the admission of our
coal free of duty. (Hear, bear.) The argument, too, that
the llth article of the treaty would enable France to have
English coal cheaper than England herself, was purely a
fallacy. He had recently read a paper on the subject of
coal in France, and it was clearly shown that there was in
that country a large quantity of coal suited to maritime
purposes, but no efforts had been made to extract it. If
France would persevere in the course of policy initiated
by the treaty of commerce, by other acts of a similar
character, the result will be that the people will cultivate
the arts of peace, and instead of following the false glare of
military glory, would seek to exalt their country among the
nations of the earth, on account of the manner in which she
sought to promote the advance of trade and commerce, and
those arts by which its social and industrial character would
be upheld.
Lord ROBERT MONTAGU said it might be true that
the treaty with France was, commercially speaking, a good
treaty, but there were other interests to be considered in re-
gard to this treaty. The Emperor of the French seemed to
act upon the principle of the necromancer in the Arabian
tale, who cried "Old lamps for new ones." He said to Eng-
land that she had old shippinglaws and Customs duties and
that if she gave them up ho would give in exchange new
principles that would promote their welfare, while it served
France. They had, however, the fact communicated to
them that the proposed change had given offence in France
and he must say, notwithstanding the assertion to the con-
trary, that the treaty was not advantageous to this country.
Re contended that the 3d article of the treaty was clearly-
against the interest of the shipping of this country, while it
was beneficialto that of France ; and, as to ccal, that article
was to be sent everywhere free of duty except to the metro-
polis of this country. In 1842 when Sir R. Peel imposed
the income tax it was to be only for three years, and when
the Chancellor of the Exchequer imposed it in 1853, he said
it was to be only for a short period. It seemed however to
be a perpetual tax renewable from year to year. (Hear.)
Mr. BAXTER said that representing as he did great
commercial interests, he was desirous of offering a few
observations. He considered that this was the very best
budget which had been proposed since the day. of Sir
Robert Peel. He considered that the speech of the right
hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exehequer was a dis-
play of eloquence which had never been surpassed in the
House of Commons, but that speech did not need any
praise from him. Let them look at one great fact, that
with the vast empire of France, with a population of be-
tween 40 and 50 millions, the amount of the exports from
this country for the last year amounted only to about
£200,000. He was certain when the great body of the
French people tasted the fruits of free trade policy they
would be desirous of going on still farther in the same direc-
tion. When it was complained that France did not give
us equal advantages under this treaty, it ought to be re-
membered this was getting in the small end of the wedge,
and besides, we should remember how comparatively short
a period it was since this country accepted the principles
of free trade. He firmly believed that the time was not far
distant when they should have a similar treaty with Spain,
and with Austria, and, in fact, he looked upon this treaty
as being the inauguration of free trade throughout Europe.
(Hear, hear.) The argument of the hon. gentleman (Mr.
Du Cane) simply amounted to this, that under the new sys-
tem the wine would become so bad that they could not
drink it, it would become so dear that they could net obtain
it, and at the same time it would seriously affect the reve-
nue at present derived from beer. Now, under this treaty,
he (Mr. Baxter) believed that the trade of England would
receive a great stimulus. As regarded wine, they found the
adulteration of wine was carried on to a frightful extent,
and in this matter alone the provisions of the treaty would
have a most beneficial effect. Looking at the political as-
pect:of the question, he would ask, How was it there was so
frequently such a war of words between this country and
the United States, and that nevertheless they never came
to blows ? Why, it was simply because of the commercial
intercourse that existed between the two'countries.— results
hear.)—Looking at the vast empire of France,,whatt r(es'
of the most beneficial kind might they not expect
whoporethsuolt
to this country in a commercial point of view, y
.
had before them the example of their commercial relations
with the United States? As to they abours of theehoholnd.
member for Rochdale (Mr, Cobden), r tvheied tgetittyue
wouldu
be fully carried out, he (Mr. Baxter) be
confer by it as great a benefit to this country as he did when
he carried the repeal of the corn laws.
Mr. LIDDELL thought the advantages of this treaty
were not to be measured by common rules. He objected to
this motion as an abstract resolution upon financei which
depended entirely upon the circumstances of
fthe time
were the circiarmnd
-
the exincies of State.
stances o gef the time ?the The EiNeenro'rwofl
thethe F rench
_found
himself wanting the moans for many of
.tmost valuable
arts of peace. The treaty_was an abso u e necpinisity for the
w be
as onlybeginning to see
F
supply of those means.
her way, and the advantages to her would be certain. The
question was whether the.. advantages would be equally
great to ourselves. He beireved in his heart that it would.
The extension of trade with a great and powerful neighbour
was a most important advantage, and he said confidently
that no man living could anticipate the results. (Hear.)
Now, as to the exigencies of the State, it was impossible to
hide the fact that, while on the one hand they were making
great sacrifices to France, they were on the other hand re-
quired to make unprecedented sacrifices in time of peace.
(Hear.) He deplored their military expenditure. He
thought the existing scheme was one means of lessening in
time these enormous estimates. The present and any Goo
vernment in France must obey the impulsive energy of the
people of that country, and the more the'ir Interests were
united to our own the greater would be the chances of peace,
and a relief from the burdens of war. An hon. gentleman
said that the present alliance between the two countries wag;
t a hollow alliances but did be t 144 it W 0 tba 4 1,1
Ma, a it more