The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-16 00:00:00

EDUCATION BILL.

Earl GRANVILLE moved the second reading of a
bill for appointing a Vice President of Committee of
Council on Eiucation, and said that he might be per-
mitted to mention ttat this bill was the result of sug-
gestions, in another place, of the right hon. barot e', Sir
J. Pakingtor, and of his noble friend Lord J. Rib-sell.
The suggestions were, considering that so great a por-
tion of the public money was spent on education, a mi-
nister should be appointed who should be responsible for
the expenditure of all moneys in his department. The
bill would provide hr an educational department of the
Privy Council, which would be represented in the other
house by a vice-president, whoever that might be, in a
manner as similar as possible to the Board of Trade.
Tne bill would create certain officers, amongst others,
inspectors and superintendents, and it would provide for
the expenses of those officers.

The Earl of DERBY said that, considering the very
large interest which the subject of education was excit-
ing, he thought the time had arrived when the change
proposed by the noble earl ought to take ,place, the only
question being as to the best mode of providing for that
change. If they were prepared to charge a responsible
Minister with the duties of educatien, he questioned whe-
ther the time had not arrived for the removing the Coun-
cil of Education altogether, and snaking the Minister
really responsible. He was not sure whether the duties
of the President of the Council had not better be trans-
ferred to some other Minister of Government, and he
thought the duties would not be beyond the functions of
a Minister in another department of the State. He
doubted whether the duties devolved upon the President
of Council had not better be discharged by the Prime
Minister. He did not express a positive judgment on the
question, but he had a strong opinion that the institution
of a Minister of Public Instruction, separated from the
Privy Council, might be attached, to the office of the
First Lord of the Treasury, who might in his tarn be
relieved from some of his duties by other Ministers.
But this was opening up a large question, and he did,
not wish then to offer any opposition to the bill, under-
standing the object of the bill t' he that the office 'of
education should be a substantial office, presided over by
a responsible Minister, which he thought would be an
arrangement far superior to the present, inasmuch as he
considered a single responsible Minister more useful than
a board of commissioners, however efficient or responsi-
ble the members of that board might be. Other changes
iu the measure it was in the power of the Crown to make
by an Order in Council ; and he thought it was hardly
right that the house should offer any opposition to the
measure, considering the character and nature of the al-
terations proposed.

Lord MONTEA.GLE thought that the present Baard
of Trade worked well, as represented by the present head
of the board; but whether he took the constitution of the
Board of Trade or of the Board of Control, or c,f any
other board, be found that they were either wholly irre-
epunsible, or else only partially responsible. He asked
those noble lorde who bad been on the Board of Trade
whether the annexation f other members of the Govern-
ment to the board was likely to be of any important ad-
vantage ? As the same difficulties had arisen upon the
question of education, as vested in the hands of the
committee, though it was composed of very wise and
very eminent persons, he greatly rejoiced that in this
instance they were approaching a better state of things.
He remembered tin.t it was not a few years ago when,
at the ebse of Lord Grey's. Government, the first step
was taken to promote public education, by the vote of a,
sum. of 30,000/.—a sum totally inadequate to touch the
question ; and when be viewed the progresS which edu-
cation had made, it was impossible not to see that the
time had come when they ought to make the responsi-
bilities more direct and connected with Parliament,
particularly when the head of the department
had ample opportunity of giving explanations, of re-
moving objections, and of communicating with Par-
liament. Another reason which made him rejoice in
the bill was, that be concluded it was a bill to connect
with the new department other departments which were
then in a state of rapid growth. He alluded to a class
of institutions which from day to day were assuming a
magnitude greater than any person living could have
anticipated. He meant the departments for the en-
couragement if science and art. He was very far from
discouraging these great object., but he thought that
they should be pursued with discretion, and treated as
an experiment, which must have growth in order to be
successful. The estimates of expense for these objects
had been laid before their lordships, and when the sub-
ject was brought before them, he knew their lord-
ships had expressed their astonishment at the large
sums which had been lavished upon the depart•
meats of science and art at a time when a miser-
able dispute was going on about a grant of 1,000
a-year to the Royal Society. Those were all the
subjects connected with the present bill to which he was
anxious to direct their lordships' attention ; but the
system of Irish education differed materially from that of
education in England. He understood the bill not to
touch the question of Irish education at all. He read it
merely as a new, organisation of council upon education
here, and as not containing a word as to the general
principle of education in If they got two able
men whose hearts were really in the subject, they world
discharge the duties of the General Board of Education
io Great Britain infinitely better than by constituting an
unpaid board, consisting of many persons engaged in
other important and laborious occupations. (Hear.)
The Earl of ELLENBOROTJGH said his opinion
was, that if they wished to have a department well con-
ducted and efficient, instead of having two able men at
its head, it would be better to have only one able man
at its head. (Hear) He had thought that the measure
of the noble earl (Rix! Granville) would have delegated
the duties of the Board of Education to one person who
was to represent the board in the House of Commons.
He (the Earl of Ellenborough) thought it was desirable
to separate the department of education from the politi-
cal changes which affected the Government. He
should, therefore, watch with anxiety the appointment
of the officer to be entrusted to represent the board
in the House of Commons. The person to be appointed
xhould not be a man of extreme opinions either in po-
litics, religion, or even with respect to education itself.
If a person of extreme opinions were appointed he would
not receive the co-operation of the landed gentry and
clergy. There were many men so enthusiastic on the
subject of education that for the object of having a lite-
rary peasantry they would sacrifice the useful labour of
the country. He had seen a good deal of the working of
these schools, and be said it was absolutely necessary
that the sons of the peasantry should earn wages at as
early a period as possible to enable them to assist their
parents. If they said that 2or 3 years more should be
taken from the useful labour of the sons to give them a
little more knowledge, they would inflict the greatest in-
jury on the., labouring classes. They would force the
family int•) the workhouse, and it was there that the
sons would obtain their education. He felt satisfied that
continuous labour was of infinitely more value to the
poor man than that he should have a day's labour and
half a day's literary amusement, which made him fit for
neither one purpose nor the other. (Hear )
Earl GREY said that the concluding observations of
the noble earl were, in his opinion, of the highest im-
portance. He (Earl Grey) could not nelp thinking that
it had been a great fault on the part of the existing de-
partment of education that it had required too high a
standard for schoolmasters and schoolmistresses. Many
of these persons had no knowledge of the useful arts.
With regard to schoolmistresses the matter was of the
utmost importance. The happiness and comfort of a
poor man's family depended materially on the handiness
of his wife ; but the schoolmistress who could give a
complete history of all the Popes from the earliest pe-
riod was often ignorant of those arts which were most
useful in the poor man's home. He thought that there
would be no inconvenience in having a board to be con-
sulted so long as the subordinate members deferred to
the opinion of the responsible chief. The noble earl said
that, if the plan were to be efficient, the office of chief of
the board ought to be separated from the. Presidency of
the Council. Considering how necessary it was that
there should be in each house one person fully acquainted
with all the general bueiness of the Government, and to
answer questions, ho believed that both those persons
should be exempted from the labours of a heavy depart-
ment. He thought also that it would be ,convenient if
the First Lord of the Treasury and the Lord President
were always in different houses. If thin arrangement