The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-08 00:00:00

- Col. BOLDERO boptel that the firm to which allusion
had been made by the right hon. gentleman had been
mulcted in the largest fine in the power of the Govern-
ment to inflict. Since we had been a military power, the
Government bad never cast a single iron gun ; and if
they adopted the suggestions of the Government, they
would be in the same position in which he told them two
years ago they would be with respect to gunpowder and
muskets. It was then proposed to take the whole manu-
facture of powder into the hands of the Government.
But he deprecated doing this, because in time of war
the resources of these private establishments would be
available. The same remark was applicable to the case
of cannons. If they ceased to take guns from the pri-
vate Houses which now supplied them they would in a
future war find themselves without other resources than
in their own establishments.
Lord PALMERSTON agreed that in articles required
in large quantities, and which were the ordinary articles
of produce in an industrial community, nothing could be
more absurd than for Government to manufacture them.
The defects of clothes, fir instance, could be detected
and exposed at once, but the defect in a canaou could
only be discovered in action. Now it was important that
our warlike implements should be made as good as pos-
sible, and that they were proper exceptions to the rule
of obtaining articles by contract. And even suppose that
we obtained the greatest portion of our supply by con-
tract, it was of importance that we should have a factory
where experiments could be tried and new inventions
tested. He hoped the house would not assent to the mo-
tion of his hon. and gallant friend, for be believed that
nothing would be more detrimental to the public service
than to prevent the establishment of a factory for casting
iron guns at Woolwich. With respect to the barrack ac-
commodation, he thoughtit was quite certain that it was
insufficient in quantity, and not of such a quality as it
ought to be. It was also a great evil that soldiers should
be billetted. But these evils could only be remedied by
the liberality of Parliament in providing means for the
erection of additional barracks. Then reference had been
made to the propriety of adopting in our fortifications
the system of Mr. Ferguson. No doubt there was much
worthy of attention in that system. But he thought that
it would be rash to inter from what toe!: Owe at Sebas-
topol, where there were virtually two armies opposed to
each other, that earthwork, were suited to the defence
of a limited fortification defended by a limited garrison.
The system of Mr. Ferguson would, however, receive
from Government the consideration it deserved, and
there could be no doubt that it had been shown that
earthworks were of great use, in the covering and
strengthenitar a stone revetment. (Hear.)
•
Mr. HUTCHINS opposed the vote.
Mr. L. DAVIES said that if the Government now
established a factory, they would have none of the expe-
rience which had been obtained by the two great houses
which had hitherto supplied those iron guns ; and they
would consequently undergo all the failures which at-
tended on infant undertakings. It would be better to
stimulate the production of the houses which had hitherto
made the iron guns. He thought the name of the firm
which supplied the defective cannon should be made
public.

LAYARD said that Mr. Ferguson's system did
not consist of earthworks.
Lord PALMERSTON said that Mr. Ferguson's
system essentially consisted in earthworks. He armed
them with three tiers of guns, with a view of briniAng
upon the hei.iegers a greater amount of direct fire thb42
they could dtreet upon the town. But the system ‘lves
based upon having, mounds of earth.
Lord ERRINGTON had not so much faith as some
hon. gentlemen in the honour of the trading classes.
He should -iip.port the vote..
Mr. MUNTZOppoied the vote, and contended that it
was perfectly possible to test guns, and find out before
going into action whether they were good or not. The
Government could get guns up to any amount of proof
they choss to demand in their specifications, and they
might therefore obtain from contractors as good an article
as they could make themselves. The more he considered
the subject the more firmly was ho convinced that the
Government was taking a mistaken course upon these
matters. In the long run, the manufacturers would beat
the Government into fits.

Lord PALMERST,ON thought the, hon. gentleman
had advanced very strong arguments against his own
case. He had implied that it was impossiblefor contractors
to know whether they gave good things or bad because
they were sometimes deceived Uy their workmen. Then
the country was at the mercy of these men. It was in
vain to say that the Government must rely upon the
contractor when it was show❑ that his workmen might
cheat him, and that thus this country would suffer in•
jury. If Government must not make anything, as the
hop, gentleman seemed to assert, they must give up their

tory ; let them send their scientiEc artillery officers
to the factory of the contractor, and ray bins a
higher price for an amalgam of charcoal and ordinary
irao, and they wenid .have no reason to complain
of the eh areeter of their iron guns for the future. With
respect to the vete fee roles:6ga purposes, which he saw
upon the estimate, he thought the experiments made, and
the decisions come co, were not so satisfactory as they
should be.
Mr. PIGOTT hoped some explanation would begiven
as to the mode in which these estimates had been ob-
tained, and the way in which the work I would be executed.
Col. LINDSAY had hoped that more information would
have been afforded as to the erection of the new barracks.
A committee had reported last year upon the inferior ac-
commodation afforded to the soldier, who had been kept
in crowded barracks almost unfit to go into, and were a
disgrace to the country. The system had been altered of
late. Formerly soldiers were ruled by compulsion, but
that system had been changed, and a method of encou-
ragement introduced in the shape of schools, public libra-
-1 'Aries, and additional good conduct money. He was cer-
tain it was not the wish of the country that they should
have the inadequate accommodation hitherto afforded.
The hon. and gallant colonel then read some extracts
from the report of the committee of last year upon the
state of the barracks, which were described as being in-
ferior to those places in which convicts were confined. The
accommodation afforded to married soldiers was ex-
tremely improper--(hear)—and their being compelled to
live in barracks with unmarried men was contrary to all
rules of decency and morality. He further recommended
that spirits should be sold again in the barracks. He had
formerly assisted to prevent this, but he was convinced
there was more crime resulted from the prohibition than
before.
Capt. STUART complained of the wretched construc-
tion of the huts at Alderehott, and thegeneral bad accom-
modation afforded to the men. Some of the huts were so
ill-ventilated that the men must open the doors, or run the
risk of soffocati.,n ; while others were neither wind nor
weather proof, and let in the snow and rain in all direc-
tions. Up to last Monday morning there was not a
stool in the camp, though the officers had comfortable
and well-furnished quarters.
Mr. LAVA RD wished to ask whether the plan of
fortifications proposed by Mr. Fergusson, and alluded
to in the other house last night, was to receive any con-
sideration from the Government ; and he should move
that the sum proposed in the vote for fortifications
should be poetpened until the question was introduced.
Lord EBRINGTON called attention to the sanitary
condition of the barrack accommodation. In a pecuniary
point of view, nothing could be more extravagant and
wasteful than the present state of barrack acconunoda-
tion. It was considerably worse than that given in
anion workhouses. On some future occasion be would
bring the question under the notice of the house.
Sir. G. TYLER said that some time since he called
the attention 'of the Government to the necessity of
their erecting coast defences in the Bristol Channel, and
he wished to know what had been done towards it.
Sir J. PAXTON was
,opposed to carrying on great
public works whilst the country had to incur the heavy
expenses attendant on the war. He called attention to
the large sum that would be wanted for completing a
large hospital at Portsmouth, which he thought was not
required. He deprecated so much money being laid out
by tho Government at Woolwich, and their becoming
shell and ordnance manufacturers. He hoped shortly
the war would beat an end, and then there would be no
further use for these sa.ctories. The contract system was
the only right and proper system to lie adopted, and he
instanced railways and other works that had been con-
structed under contracts. All they had to do was to
get their articles well specified in the contracts, and
afterwards see that they were properly manufactured or
constructed. Another reason he had against the Go-
vernment becoming manufacturers was, that the great
and advancing improvements in the construction of
machinery prevented them keeping pace with private
manufacturers in producing a superior article.
Sir W.. JOLLIFFE said that the votes had been
brought before the house in such an unwieldy state that
it was impossible to understand them. He hoped this
would be the last time the estimates would be produced
to the house in such an intricate manner. He con-
demned the present barrack system. Ile admitted some
improvements had been made in them by the establish-
ment of schools, &c., but there were no places of recrea-
tion for the men, and it presented a striking contrast to
the barrack system in France. In many garrison towns
the recruits had no accommodation for musket practice.
Col. BOLDER() said ha thought the house had got
into much confusion with reference to the question before
the house, the amendment of the gallant member for
Portarlington. And all this confusion had arisen from
the unsatisfactory manner in which the estimates had
been presented to the house.
Mr. MONSELL resisted the appointment of the com-
mittee moved for by the hon. and gallant member for
Partarlington, on the ground that no good would result
from it. He said that the Government had been able
to manufacture guns and mortars of a. superior charm).
ter, and at a much less cost, than they could purchase
them. The guns and mortars that had been supplied
by one lsouse had been of a very bad quality Indeed.
(Cries of " Name.") Ile declined to name the firm, and
added that the guns and mortars supplied by two other
houses had not been much better. Experiments had
been made at Wool wick with iron, produced,from various
parts of the world. The American iron had been found
to bear a pressure of from 35,0001b5. to 45,0001b5.;
whilst the best iron they had been able to obtain from
other places would not bear more than a pressure of
27,5001 be., and averaged only 22,0001 W. A person in
Nova Scotia/had offered to contract with the Govern-
ment to supply iron that should stand the pressure of
36,0001b5. The ordnance that had been supplied by
the persons with whom the Government had entered
into contracts had been found so defective that instead
of using a charge of 151 be. necessary to effectually pro-
pel the missile 131 b. and 141 b. charges could only
be safely used. It was of vital importance that guns
and mortars should be manufactured of the very best
possible materials, and he considered it would be unwise
of any Government to depend on any firm for the pro-
duction of an article of a quality for which there was no
other use than that of manufacturing heavy ord-
nance. The cost of shells had been reduced one-half by
the establishment of the shell factory, and he believed
that there would be a similar reduction in the cost of
guns.