The Sun.
London, England, 1860-08-15 00:00:00

Kensington Museum, which cost £20,000 a year, and was
really of no use whatever to the poor.
The vote was then agreed to.
The next vote was £82,561 to complete the sum required
for the purpose of promoting science and art.
Mr. CONINGHAM complained of the money wasted on
the Kensington Museum, which was very properly desig-
nated by the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets as a toy.
He wished to know what were really the objects of this
museum. There was a rumour abroad that the National
Gallery eves to be removed there, bat he hoped there was
no foundation for it whatever. He was very sorry to see
such intrigues—for he could not call them anything else—
going on in these matters, and he should certainly keep a
watchful eye on those gentlemen of the Kensington Museum.
He believed that so far from being useful either to art or
science, it was nothing better than a great toy-shop for the
amusement of certain classes in the vicinity. Another
point was the salaries of the officials at Kensington. They
were paid much higher salaries than the officials of the Bri-
tish Museum, who held much more responsible situations.
Mr. Cole, the manager, for instance, received £1,200 a year,
while Professor Owen, a man of world-wide celebrity, re-
ceived only £BOO a year at the British Museum, and Mr.
Panizzi, the librarian, only £BOO a year at the Museum,
while Mr. Redgrave had £7OO at Kensington. Taking all
the salaries together, the officials at Kensington were de-
cidedly overpaid, as compared with those at the Museum,
though ho admitted that be wished the latter to be better
paid. He wished also to say that a more unsatisfactory
report than that of the committee on the Kensington Mu-
seum ho had never read ; and though he would not, in the
present state of the house, move any amendment on the
vote, he hoped next session that the whole subject would
be thoroughly investigated.
Mr. ADDERLEY called attention to one item connected
with the National Gallery, and said that it appeared that
more pupils had been admitted into the life school than were
really students.
Mr. CARDWELL read, in reply, a communication from
Mr. Mulready, stating the classes of persons admitted to
the life school, Ord contended that such improper admis-
sions could not have taken place.
Sir J. SHELLEY said that as a member of the commit-
tee on the Kensington Museum he had gone into it in the
expectation that he would find it was a series of gross jobs;
but, on the contrary, he was bound to say, after a careful
examination of the evidence, that it was doing a great deal
of good, and that the complaints against it were without
foundation, and he should be sorry to see it done away with.
Its existence, however, was no reason why there should not
be a similar museum at the east end of the town, and so far
as he was concerned he should be very happy to see one or
more established among the working classes there. (Hear.)
As to Mr. Cole he thought that gentleman was a most able,
zealous, and hard-working public servant, and though he
was paid £1,200 a-yeart that sum was less than ho would
have been entitled to had he simply remained in the Record
Office, where he was for 20 years, and taken his promotion.
As to the report of the committee he, as one of its members,
was not ashamed of it in any respect. (Hear, hear.)
Alderman SALOMONS moved that the estimate be re-
duced by the sum of £1,500 for photographic apparatus, and
£5OO
-for advertisements. He thought there ought not to
be a public department set up to compete against the private
;rade.

Mr. LOWE road a portion of the report of the con
mittee to show that there had been no competition what
ever between the British Museum and the Kensington
Museum at any sales of works of art or other articles.
With respect to the exclusion of the hon. member for
Brighton from the committee, the hon. gentleman had
made such grave and serious charges against the establish-
ment that he thought it was better he should appear—if
he appeared at all—as the prosecutor rather than in a
judicial capacity. With respect to the vote for photo-
graphy, the subject had been very fully considered by the
committee. The articles to be photographed belonged to
the national collections, and the question was in what way
these photographs should be produced. Three ways were
before them. One was to give the privilege to two or three
eminent firms, who would have had a monopoly that would
have caused general murmuring among all the others en-
gaged in the same profession. Another was to entrust the
task to one person only, such as Mr. Colnaghi, and that
would have been still more objectionable, besides enabling
in both cases those who were given the privilege to charge
a monopoly price to the public. The third plan, and that
agreed to by the committee, was to have a separate public
department for the purpose, and to sell the photographs to
the public at cost price. (Hear.)
Mr. IL D. SEYMOUR objected to having a public pho-
tographic department at so large an expense as that set
forth in the vote before the committee. Why not allow all
respectable photographers to take photographs of the pic-
tures in the museum ?
Sir J. V. SHELLEY defended the present system under
which the photographs were taken at the museum.
Mr. E. JAMES entered his protest against the reason
given by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Lowe) against not
nominating the hon. gentleman the member for Brighton as
a member of the committee referred to. The reason urged
was really an insult to the hon. gentleman.
The committee then divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment l9
Against it
Majority —6l
The item was accordingly agreed to.
Mr. AYRTON proposed to reduce this vote by the sum
of £20,000 in order to put an end to the extravagance—the
enormous extravagance that was being carried on. A
certain class of persons got up this South Kensington
Museum, which was nothing but a " toy" and a " play-
thing" for certain conspicuous people. The fact was, that
the East, and the North, and the South of London, and
Birmingham, and other places, were as much entitled to
have grants for museums as the class to whom he had re•
ferred in South Kensington. The museum was the museum
of the hon. member for Westminster (Sir J. Shelley), and
was " the Westminster Museum." He objected to the
constitution of the committee, which he considered a mos t
unfairly chosen and composed one. He therefore proposed
the omission from the vote of the sum of £20,000 for the
Kensington Museum.
The CHAIRMAN said the hon. member could not, ac-
cording to the standing orders, move the omission of the
whole vote.
Mr. AYRTON—Then I will move the reduction of the
vote, item after item, beginning with the first item—
(laughter)—namely, £3,515, fellowing the one which has
just been disposed of. (Laughter.)
The committee divided, the numbers were—
For the amendment l3
Against
Majority —66
In answer to a question, Mr. LOWE said he should
have stated that it was intended to take a supplemental
vote for buildings at the South Kensington Museum, of
which duo notice would be given.
The vote was then agreed to, as was also the vote of
£641 to defray the salaries of the secretaries to the Com-
missioners of National Education in Ireland.
The next vote proposed was the sum of £4,820 to the
University of London,
After a short discussion the vote was agreed to.
The following votes were also taken
£3,600 for the Queen's College in Ireland,
£5OO for the Royal Irish Academy.
£8,670 having been proposed to complete the sum for the
National Gallery,
Mr. CONINGHAM complained of the extravagant and
fruitless expenditure by the managers of that institution,
especially as regarded the purchase of spurious pictures,
and travelling expenses for parties who perpetrated such
mistakes. £6OO for travelling expenses were allowed to Mr.
Mundler, who, notwithstanding former blunders, was still
engaged in connection with the National Gallery. He
thought the Royal Academy should be withdrawn from the
National Gallery. He proposed to reduce the vote by £6,000.
Mr. WILLIAMS said the vote of last year was £15,900.
Was that sum expended ?
Mr. LAING said it was. The balance in hand was the
balance of a previous year.
In answer to a question from Mr. AYRTON,
Lord PALMERSTOX thought the accommodation of
the Royal Academy at the National Gallery was quite con-
sistent with the objects of the institution. At the same
time it was intended to provide for that body elsewhere as
soon as possible, so as to afford increased space for the ex-
hibition of works of art.
Mr. CONINGHAM said the Royal Academy was not a
public but a private institution. If a site were given to
that body, leaving them to find their own edifice, it would
be as great a favour as they were entitled to.
The vote was then agreed to ; and also the following :
£1,790 was voted for scientific experiments, £5OO for the
Royal Geographical Society, and £l,OOO for the Royal
Society.
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the house
resumed.
The Fortifications Bill was read a third time and passed.
STAMP DUTIES (No. 2) BILL.

The Lords' amendments on this bill were considered and
agreed;

DEFENCE OF THE REALM BILL.

The house then went into committee on this bill, when
the several clauses were agreed to, and the house resumed.
CUSTOMS (No. 2) BILL.
This bill passed through committee.
PEACE PRESERVATION (IRELAND ACT) (1856)
AMENDMENT BILL.
This bill, as amended, was considered and agreed to.
NEW ZEALAND BILL.

The order of the day for the second reading of this bill
was postponed.
CONJUGAL RIGHTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill.
Clauses up to 11 inclusive were agreed to.
On clause 12,
Mr. HENNESSY objected to the clause, as he did not
think four years' desertion was a good ground to justify a
divorce.
The committee divided, when the numbers were—
For the clause
Against it , 16
Majority
Clauses up to 16 were agreed to.
On clause 17,
;AL CRAWFORD objected to the wording of the clause,