The Sun.
London, England, 1860-04-20 00:00:00

REFORM BILL.

Mr. E. JAMES iE Wen that he would ask the noble
lord the Foreign Secretary whether, on the second reading
of this bill, it was proposed to refer it to a select committee,
or whether it would be,proceeded with this session.

NATION-AL EDUCATI.
Mr. HENNESSY asked the Chief Secretary for Ire-
land if a reply had been given bp the Government to the
letter from the Roman Catholic bishops, dated March 18,
18(30, with reference to national education in Ireland ?
Mr. CARDWELL replied in the negative.
FOREIGN AFFAIRS.
On the motion for going into committee of supply,
Mr. HORSNIAN called the attention of the house to the
state of our relations with foreign powers, and to ask some
explanations on the subject from the Government. He
, d the affairs of the continent were in a more threatening
con diti on at the present time than they were when the session
commenced, and foreign states were trembling at the
in which they now found themselvesplaced. Under o
circumstances, he wished for some information on the these
were
her Majesty's advisers to show that the Government
erre
of one mind and cordially united as to the policy which
they intended at this crisis to pursue in order to support the
honour and interests of England. (Hear, hear.) Ravine.
referred to the despatch of M. Thouvenel and the state-
ment of that Minister, he next proceeded to the
question of the Ninexation. Assuming that that annexa-
tion was a mere accidental circumstance, or that it was
an indication of the policy which the Emperor of
the French proposed to pursue— with regard to
either, he wished to know what was the course this Go-
vernment had determined on in an emergency calculated to
affect powerfully all the States of Europe. The hon. member
then adverted to the statement made by Lord J. Russell
previous to the adjournment for the Easter holidays, and
remarked that M. Thouvenel had twitted the noble lord
that there had been no protest against the annexation.
Now, he regretted that there had not been such a protest,
for it did not necessarily involve this country ina war against
the policy to which it was opposed. That protest was
valuable, as a proof that this country did not acquiesce
in a particular line of policy, therefore its not being
made in the present case was a political error. There was
sufficient to arouse the suspicion of this country, both
In the past and the present, that the Emperor of the French
aimed at territorial aggrandisement. (Hear, and No, no.)
There were rumours that Prussia was being assailed with:a
view to promote that poliey, and that overtures had been
made relative to the rectification of the Rhenish frontier,
and that a favourable issue to France would be rewarded
by the annexation of certain minor states. A map of
Europe, published inTaris two yeaes ago, had acquired a
new signification in the eyes of Frenchmen, and it. sug-
gested the aggressive - policy of the Emperor of the
French. (Hear.) According. to, that map Lombardy
w saed ex to Sardinia, changes were effected in Morocco
in a
relation to Spain, but the greatest alterations indicated
leythat map were
i'. r.eaein reference to the minor States of Ger-
many.-) The latter were apprehensive that
by the force of external influence they would be an-
nexed to Prussia. He contended that Prussia was at that
moment threatened byFeance, and in this emergency she had
no friend to rely on but this country. If she could not rely
on this country, then she would be her own
terms with France, and the result might
tdThe independence of SWitdtr:eurs-
to the interests of England.
land was a European question of the first order,
the
Swiss had shown us that they were resolute and trueai
themselves and to Europe. As yet they w to
were free, and
they had made it known that if they lost that freedom it
Should net be by their own act. They had startled Europe
by declaring that if Europe abandoned them in their own
cause, they were determined that, single-handed, they
would brave the colossal power of France, rather than
suffer extinction without a struggle. (Cheers.) They had
the spirit of our own poet, who said :

. ,
" This land we from our fathers have in trust,
And to our children we transmit it.

This is our maxim, this our fiat,
And God and Nature say that it is just.
That which we' can perform in arms, we must.
We Lead the diettlm. in the infant's eyes, in the wife's
smile,
And at our feet; beneath the -silent dust of those that
were."

And when Switzerland now appealed tc us that brave

little citadel of freedom that had so tong shared with Eng-
land the honour of having afforded a refuge to the perse-
cuted and proscribed of other nations—when she had de-
clared herself ready to send forth her little b .nd of heroes
and patriots with a devotion not surpasse 1 in history, to
fight for the cause which the great and go ) I of all times
had said was the first possession a peop' • should have
was England to stand aloof, to forget . r word, to forfeit
her honour, and to leave those terr ie,s which she had
sworn to defend, to be the scene of a tragedy that must
darken the age in which we lived, and make the name of
England to be dishonoured in after times ? (Conservative
cheers.) He knew it would be said we could do nothing
without the combination of other Powers. He did not
know what communications might have passed between
our Government and that of foreign Powers on that
subject, but if we were true to ourselves, we were sure
of Prussia and Switzerland, and in the case of Switzer-
land, those allies were quite sufficient, with the help of
England, not to make, but to prevent a war—(cheers)—for
the Emperor of the French would not dare to make a war
in the case of Chablais, for he would be overwhelmed by
the public opinion of Europe. In the late war Austria was
the wrong-doer, and public opinion condemned her; but in
the case of Chablais it was different. France was entirely
in the wrong. It was not needed for the security of France ;
it was an act of pure aggression, and he was confident that
France would not endure that her men, her money, and her
commerce should be sacrificed in such a cause. Still it was
said that we ran the risk of a war by such a course as he
recommended, that war was always terrible and costly, that
Chablais was far off, and that it was no concern of England.
Those who said so would say that the Rhine was no con-
cern of England—that Belgium was as concern of England
—and that if the counties of Kent and Sussex were invaded
they were no concern to the manufacturing districts of Eng-
land. (Great cheers and laughter from the Opposition.)
Such advice ought not to be listened to. There was a maxim
which said that men indifferent to the liberties of others
would never defend their own. (Hear, hear.) The inte-
rests of England were not territorially affected, but her
trade and commerce were more than ever affected by the
aggrandisement of France. They knew that France would
support the Emperor so long as our hesitation made his
policy successful ; but we had good reason to knew that she
would abandon him if once he were opposed. The question
was, should we oppose him in Switzerland, or wait until he
had subjugated it, partitioned Germany, overrun Belgium,
and had only England left to deal with He asked whe-
ther we should oppose him now, when the voice of all
Europe was against him, or wait until Europe, humi-
liated and disgusted, turned against us ? (Conservative
cheers.) He answered that question by saying that no gen •
tleman in that house had the right to arrogate to himself
the monopoly of a hatred of war, or of a love of peace, and
those who had the least right of all to do so were those
advocates and supporters of the Emperor of the French,
who, he believed, was at this moment the greatest enemy
of peace that walked the world. (Conservative cheers.)
He (Mr. Horsman) begged to say that there was a state of
peace that was even worse than a state of war, and that was
the mere adjournment of a war to a more convenient season,
when the enemy who was determined to make it might
strike with the most deadly effect. (Conservative cheers.)
He granted that the Minister who pronounced the word
" war" incurred a fearful responsibility, but he incurred a
responsibility surely more fearful who, when conscious of
impending danger, hesitated to meet it like a man, shrunk
from his duty, and in a degenerate and craven spirit be-
queathed to his country the increasing difficulties of an un-
settled question, the dangers of which might be aggravated
by his timidity, and its disasters increased a thousand-fold
by his delay. He did not believe that the noble lord the
Secretary for Foreign Affairs was the man to do that. He
had been called on to conduct the foreign policy of this
country at a most critical period, and it was his (Mr. Hors-
man's) solemn conviction that the next few years, or even
perhaps months, might be the most memorable in the his-
tory of England, and might leave their mark, for good or for
evil, on succeeding generations. He had heard speeches
from the noble lord in that house which would indicate that
he was not insensible to the danger, and he (Mr. Horsman)
felt that in this conjuncture he would not shrink from his
duty. (Cheers.) The noble lord bore a noble name—a name
associated with the past greatness of England—and he
(Mr. Horsman) trusted he would never allow it to go down
to posterity linked with the darkest hour of her dishonour
and disgrace. (Cheers.)
Mr. DUFF considered that this country was not pro-
perly represented in Paris by Lord Cowley, and suggested
that he should be removed. (Laughter.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, I do not quite understand what
the purpose of the right hon. gentleman is in the speech
with which he has just addressed the house. (Hear.) It is,
no doubt, sir, the privilege of the right hon. gentleman to
address us upon any point of our foreign or domestic policy.
At the same time, it must be recollected that this privilege is
accompanied with a deep responsibility ; and I must say, I
think the right hon. gentleman has not sufficiently weighed
the importance of that responsibility when he made the
speech which we have heard delivered this evening. For in
the first place, I must say, before I advert to the ques-
tion to which the right hon. gentleman alluded, that while
he appeared to be preparing the house for war, while he
seemed to be endeavouring to arouse the feelingof this house
in favour of a contest against the Government of France,
he never laid down what was the object for which that war
was to be carried on. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentle-
man seemed to suppose that Chablais and Faucigny were
parts of the Swiss territory, and that the French Govern-
ment were about to invade that territory and to take posses-
sion of it, contrary to the rights of Switzerland. 'Well,
whatever dangers we may have to encounter, whatever
may be the position of our affairs upon the Continent, that,
at all events, is not a fair description of the present state of
affairs. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman asks me, what
is the present state of the Savoy question, and in order to
explain that portion of the subject—for my duty forbids me
to go into detail as to what has recently passed and is now
passing—I must state that the question of the cession of
Savoy by Sardinia to France,'and the question of the neu-
tralised portions of Savoy, and their relations first to Swit-
zerland and next to the great Powers of Europe, are two
totally distinct questions. (Hear.) The right hon. gen-
tleman says that we did not protest against the cession of
Savoy to the Emperor of the French. There may be cases
in which it is right to protest. Ido not think there are
many such cases, but undoubtedly there are ;some. For in-
stance—where any treaty has, in our opinion, 'manifestly
been violated—such as the case of Cracow. But when we
do no think that oar interest and honour are so much con-
cerned as to induce us to take up arms such an occasion is
one for a protest. Then there are other cases, such for in-
, stance as that in which the Grand Duke of Tuscany and the
late Duke of Modena protested. They found their territory
violated and taken possession of, and another sovereign
claiming the right to rule over them. Under these circum -
stances, their interest in the matter not being an inferior
one, but finding themselves without the power to recover
what they had lost, they very properly protested, merely
saying that they did not admit right in what had been
done, and reserving to themselves the right to recover
their possessions if an opportunity should ever be af-
forded for their so doing. The subject was in that case a
Very proper one for a protest. But what has been our posi-
tion with regard to Savoy ? When we first heard of the an-
nexation, that it was a matter which it was not at that time
intended to carry out, though circumstances might arise that
would make such a step be decided upon, we stated that we
thought any such transfer would be attended with injuri-
otruasneqouusilleigtyueonfeEesutroopFe.ranEcuetanwde
wtoertehaeogt eennetritalledpetaeceeayantdo
the King of Sardinia, "You shall not yield y
Emperorour territory
thtoe France ;" nor wore we entitled to say to the
FKr.ench, " g
of Sardinia is ready to yield to
yo You shall not accept the territory which the
Rthaaststthaehvaise,wthorfotahgehchouia ambassadorrteofEurepe,sathida:t.,,"
thelt S
Emperor
much is
sm
m
pem"aertteorf
which entirely concerns the two sovereigns. The Ea m
of the French had a right to ask for the cession, and the
King of Sardinia had a right to make it ; so that with re-
gard to the pure cession there can be no further question."
I do not understand that any of the powers of Europe have
said so much as we have said on this subject. They •have
considered that the Emperor of the French might have this
territory if it was yielded to him. Some of them have con-
sidered it a most injurious example and pregnant with future
consequences of evil ; but they have not said that they were
entitled to protest on the subject. So far I think we have
acted in conformity not only with the law of nations, but
with the general sense of the other powers of Europe.
There is a question of some complication. It has been
partly discussed and must be further discussed, and which
at this moment occupies the cabinets of Europe. In 1815
it was agreed that certain portions of Savoy, viz., Chablais,
Faucigny, and a part of the Genevois, should in case of war
between neighbouring powers have all the benefits which
belonged to Switzerland itself ; that the kingdom of
Sardinia should have power of withdrawing his troops
through the Valais and the neutral territory of Swit-
zerland; and that the only military authority which
should have power in that district should be the troops
ofathe Swiss Confederation. (Hear, hear.) There has
been a discussion, and some of the despatches. on the
subject have appeared in the newspapers. There has been a
discusßon as to the object of the particular provision which
is contained in the 92d article of the treaty of Vienna, and
in the guarantee of Switzerland, dated the 20th of Nov.,
1815. Tha French Government have contended, in more
than one very able dispatch, that this provision was in-
tended for the benefit of the King of Sardinia, and for the
protection of his troops in case of war. It has been con-
tended on the other side that it was intended for the gene-
ral benefit of Switzerland ; but whatever be the issue of that
discussion, the view which her Majesty's Government takes
is that it is a provision which. conduces to the general
security of Switzerland, and the safety of that neutrality
waErhaisire:hsp,ewwanaitshpdorewegcleaarrraed.d to be a part of the general policy of the
tßouthtethehataab being the
thatth
hascase, la; lately yn ta qu
ken pe s tlace.ion
The Emperor of the French and the King of Sardinia have
lately
concluded a treaty by an article of which the future
possession' of parts of Savoy
declared
transferredared th athat
thteothe neutral Empe-
ror
of tho French; but it is
ter-
ritory is transferred with the samec.otnadiaitionTshbayt- whicht it
was formerly held by the King
atd
naturally gave rise to demands for explanations,
aPnTivit hasm
been said most frankly, as I think, by the French Govern-