The Sun.
London, England, 1856-03-06 00:00:00

as much interested as any other member of the house ; and '
although he might sustain the disadvantage of being un-
able to avail himself of the religious services of the Church,
yet he claimed all the rights and powers with respect to
the maintenance and regulation of the National Establish-
men which belonged to the strictest Churchman in the
country. (" Oh, oh !") He understood those cries of
"Oh ;" they meant how was it that he desired, holding
such views, to escape from a national tax for the support
of the Church ! That was a fair argument, but one easily
answered. The members of the Established Church, un-
like the Dissenters, enjoyed the free use of all the churches
throughout the country, and it was only fair that they
should be asked to maintain them in an efficient state of
repair. (" Divide !") He knew that hon. gentlemen oppo.
site were anxious to go to a division, and he, too, was de-
sirous that the question should be decided by a vote before
the house adjourned ; but he thought that upon an occa-
sion like the present, when all previous speakers had been
members of the Church of England, some indulgence should
be extended to one who wished to express the sentiments
of a very large portion of her Majesty's subjects. The noble
lord the member for the City of London had stated that,
if he saw any substitute for the church rate, he would
he willing to vete fur the second reading of the bill.
It had amused him—it would amuse any Dissenter ac-
quainted with the operation of the voluntary principle --
to witness the perplexity of noble lords and hon. gentle-
men to find a substitute for the church rate. It reminded
him of the old lady who searched every room in the house
for her spectacles, and found them at last on her nose.
(" Divide !") He would tell the friends of the Church that
they had an excellent substitute, if they' would only avail
themselves of it, in the zeal and liberality of their own
members. In Wales, a poor country, the Dissenters
maintained all their own chapels, and in Ireland, a poorer
country still, the Remelt Catholics did the same. It was
only in England, a rich country, where the groat body of
the landowners belonged to the Estabdehed Church, that
any difficulty was felt in providing for the sustentation of
religions edifices and the maintenance of divine service.
But he believed that if they were to open the vein of libe-
rality and benevolence which he had indicated, the result
would astonish themselves ; and certain he was that if the
bill were carried it would do more to advance the church
in its spiritual power and influence than all the rates ever
levied. (Hear, hear.)
Lord J. MANNERS—I am informed that, having left
the house for a few minutes, the hon. and learned Attor-
ney-General commented on my absence, and expressed
himself displeased with some expressions which he alleged
had fallen from me in debate. I can assure the hon. and
learned gentleman that I had not the faintest wish in any
way to offend him, and if any expressions dropped from
my mouth which did hurt his feelings I am most anxious to
retract theta. I beg leave, in conclusion, to assure him
that, whatever opinion he may entertain of me, I enter.
tain towards him no feeling but one of the highest re-
spect. (Cheers.)
The house then divided ; the numbers were :
For the second reading
Against it l7B
M merit— —43

The announcement of the numbers was received with
some cheering ea the Alinisterill side, in the midst of
which

Mr. WALPOLE rose and said that, the division having
been mainly taken upon the amendments announced by
the Government. he would like to know when those
amendments would bo laid on the table?

Sir G. GREY—Some day before the Easter recess. I
have only to remark that last year the majority for the
second reading of the bill, when no such amendments were
announced by tho Government, was considerably smaller
than upon the present occasion. (A. laugh.)
Mr K. SEYMER inquired whether the bill would now
be regarded as a Government measure, and taken on Go-
vernment days ?
Sir G. GREY replied that it was not a Government bill,
and could not take precedence of Government business.
But the Government would in future give facilities for its
discussion is case its introducer, as a private stemher,
should be unable to effect a satisfactory arrangement him-
self. When the house weut into committee the Govern-
ment would be prepared to submit their amendments.
Mr. DISRAELI—I do not intend to enter into the com-
parative statistics of different sessions ; but as the right
hon. gentleman has referred to the division of last year,
I raay as well remind him that on that occasion I believe
he voted with those who now sit on this side of the house.
Sir G. GREY—Allow me to state that the right hon.
gentleman is mistaken. I was hot in the division, but I
stated, in reply to a question, that the Government did
not feel themselves in a position to supports the bill, he-
cause they had not anry amendments prepared. (Hear.)
Mr. NE WDEGATE said that, if the right hon. bart.
was not in the division last year, it was certain that the
noble lord at the head of the Government both spoke and
voted against the bill. Ho confessed that ho was ranch
surprised at the result of the division which had just
taken place—{laughter from the Ministerial benches)—but
he rejoiced that they would have another opportunity of
considering the principle of the bill, which at present could
not be understood, owing to the elements of uncertainty
introducer) by the Government. (Hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—The difference between this year and
last shows that we are advancing. (A laugh.)
DISSENTERS' MARRIAGES BILL.

Mr. A. PE LLATT moved the second reading of this
bill, which was, in effect, the same as the one which
pa.sed a second reading la.t session.

After a few observations from Sir W. Heathcote.
Lord Palmerston, Mr. Henley, and several
other honourable member►, the bill was read
a second time and ordered to be committed on the 11th
of April. _ _ _

The ether business baying been disposed of, the house
Adjourned at half-past 5.

Mr. H. W. WicKffam paired in favour of Sir W,
Clay's bill, with Sir M. S. STEwAIT against.

PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION.

HOUSE OF COIINIONS.—MARat r.
CHURCH•RATES ABOLITION BILL.

Order for second reading read ; Motion made, and question
proposed, " Tdat tho Bill lx) now read a second time :"

Amendment proposed to leave out the ward " now," ;Lila
at the end of LILL, quoLiLion Lu add Lho aurds " upon this
day six mouths Question put, that the word `now'
stand part of the question :"—The House divided ; Ayes
221, Noes 17$.

ATES-22 1.
Acton, Joseph Fitzroy, henry Muntz, G.
A., air, IL Foley, J. 11. Murrough, J. P.
Adair, It. Fonter, Chaties Napier, Sir C.
Agnew, Slr A. Forster, John North, F.
Alcock, T. Fortescue, C. S. O'Connell, D.
Anderson, Sir J. Fox, W.. 1. 011ye'ra, 11.
Antrohns, E. Freestun, Colonel Osborne, R.
Bagshaw, J. Gallwey, Sir W. Otway, A.
Bailey, C. Gardner, B. Palraersten, Viscoun'
Raines, Rt. Hon. M, Gibson, M. Paxton, Sir J.
Ball, E. Gil' ad, Earl of Pechell, i-.'ir G.
Ball, J. Glyn, G. Pall .tt, A.
Barnes, T. Goderich, Viscount Perry, Sir E.
Baxter, W. Gower, F. ,Pigott, F.
Beaumont, W. Greene, John Pilkington, J.
Bell, J. Gregson, Samuel Pinney, IV.
Bellew, T. Grenfell, Charles Pollard-Urquhart, W
Berkeley, Hon. H. F. Greville, Colonel F. Ponso,,hy, A.
Berkeley, G. C. Grey, lit. Hon. Sir G. Power, N.
Bethell, Sir R. Grey, It. ' Itaynliam, Viscount
Blddulph, Col. R. 31, Grosvenor, Ld. R. !teed, J.
Biggs, W. Hadfield, George Ricardo, 0.
Black, Adam Hall, Sir Benjamin Rice, E.
Bonham-Carter, J. Hankey, T. HMI. y, George
Bouyerie, lion. E. r. Hastie, Alex. Robartes, T.
Brand, H. B. w. Hastie, Archel. Roebuck, J. A.
Brockleharst, J.- Ileadlam, T. Russell. F. C.
Brockman, E. IT, Ileathcoat, J. Schotefleld, IV.
Bret herton, J. Heneage, Geo. H. • Scobell, Capt.
Brown, H. Herbert, H. Scrope, G.
Brown, W. Hervey, Lord A. Scully, F.
Bruce, H. A. Heywood, J. Seymour, W. D.
Buckley, Gen. Heyworth, L. Shafto, It.
Butler, C. S. Hadley, C. Shelley, Sir J.
Byng, G. B.C. Horsman, E. Sheridan, R.
Cardwell E. Hutchins, E. Smith, J. A.
S,'avendisli, C. C. Hutt, NV. Smith, J. 11.
Challis, T. Ingham, R. Smith, M.
Chambers, T. Jackson, W. Smith, R.
Chaplin, W. Johnstone, J. Somerville, Sir W.
Cobden, R. Johnstone, Sir J. Stanley, Lord
Cockb rn, Sir A. J. E .Keating, H. Stanley, W.
Coffin, IV. Kennedy, T. Steel, John
Cowan, C. Kershaw, J. Stirling, W.
Cowper, W. King, L. Strutt, lion. E.
Craufurd, E. H. J. Klngscote, Capt. R. Sullivan, Michael
Crook, J. Klimaird, A. Swift. It.
Crossley, F. Labouc',cre,R.t.llon.ll Tailored, H.
Cuhitt, IV Langston, .1. H. Thompson, G.
Currie, Raikes Langton, li. G. Thornely. T.
' Denison, J. E. Laslett, IV. Thornhill, W.
Dent, J. Layard, A. 11. Tile, IV. •
De Verc, S. E. Lee, W. Tomline, G.
Diilwyn, L. L. Lewis, Sir G. C. Vane, Lord 11.
' Divett, E. Lowe, It. Villiers, C
Drumlaurig, Vls. Lace, T. Vivian, 11. 11.
Duff, G. Mac Evoy, E. Walmsley, Sir J.
,i)uff, J. Mackie, .T.'i Warner, E.
Duke, Sir J. Mackinnon, W. Watkins, Col.
Duncan, Viscount M'Canx, J. Wells, W.
Duncan, George Maguire. ,r. F. NVhatinan, J.
buncombe, Thomas Mangles, It. Whitbread, S.
Dundm, F. Marjoribanks, D. Wilkinson, VT.
Dungarvan, Viscount Martin, J. Willcox, B
, unlop, A. Martin, P. Williams, IF.
Ebrington, Viscount Massey, W. Willoughby, Sir H.
Ellice, E. Milligan, R. Wilson, J.
Ellice, E., jun. Mills, T. Winnisgton, Sir T.
Elliott. J E. Milner, W. M. E. Wise, A.
Ewart, W. Moffat, G. Wood, Sir C.
Ewart, J. Monck, Vie. Wyvill, M.
Fenw.ek, li. MoncreifT, J.
Ferguson, J. Morris, 0.
Fitz Gerald, Sir John Mowatt, F.
Fitzgera:d, J. Mulgra, e, Earl of

TELLERS,
Clay, Slr W., Bt.
X all, E.

NQES-175.
AcJand, Sir •IF. - Gladstone, Capt. J. Morgan. 0.
kiderley, C. B. Goddard, A. Mowbray, J. R.
Aunesley, Earl of Gooch, Sir E. Mulllngs, J. It.
Arbuthnott, Gen. H. Gore, W. Mundy. W.
Archdall, Capt. M. Graham, Sir J. Newark, Viscount
Bagge, W. Graham, Lord M. Newdegate, C.
Bailey, Sir J. Gri•ene, Thomas N,wport, Viscount
Saline, H. Guinness, R. S. North, Col. J.
itankes, Rt. Hon. G. Gwyn, Howol Oakes, J.
Barrington, Vist.. Haddo, Lord Ossuiston, Lord
Barrow, W. Hale, Robert Packs, C.
Bennet, Capt. P. Halford, Sir Henry Pakington, Sir J.
Beresford, Rt. Hn. W. Hall, General John Palmer, Robert
Bignold, Sir S. Harcourt, G. G. Palmer, Roundell
Blackburn, P. Harcourt, Col. Parker, R.
Blaltemore, T. Hardinge, lion. C. Patten, Col.
Bond, J. Hardy, G. Peacocke, G.
Bramley-Moore, J. Haye., Sir E. Peel, Gem
Braraston, T. W. Heathcoate, Sir W. Percy, J.
Buck, L. W. Heneage, Geo. F. Philipps, J.
Buck, Col. Henley, J. !kill more. R. J.
itunbury, W. B. Herbert, S. Portal, M.
Burroughes, U.N. Herbert, Sir T. Powell, Col. W.
Butt, G. H. Hildyard, H. C. Pritchard, J.
Cecil, Lord Holfo, d, IL Robertson, P.
Chelsea, Viscount Hotham, Lord Russ.-11, Lord J.
Child, Smith Hume, W. Sandars, G.
Christy, Samuel Jermyn, Rt. Fin. Earl Seymer, H.
Cobbold, J. C. Jolliffe, Sir W. Sibthorp, Major
Cocks, T. S. Jolliffe, IL SmUth, sir W.
Cole, H. A. Jones, Admiral Smith, W.
Coles, 11. - Jones, D. Smith, Abel
Colvile, C. R. Kell , Sir F. Smyth, John
Compton, H. C. Kendall, N. Smollett, A.
Corry, H. T. L. Kerrison, Sir E. Spooner, It.
Davies, D. Kim:, J. Stafford, A,
Davies, J. Knatchbull, W. • Stanhope, J.
Davison, R. , Knightley, R. Stracey, IL
Deedes, William Knox, Col. B. W. Stuart, Captain
Dering, Sir E. Langton, W. H. P. G. Thesiger, Sir. F.
Disraeli, B. Legli, G C. Tollemacbe, J.
Drummond, H. Lennox, Lord A. F. Tyler, Sir G.
Duncornbe, Hon. A. Lennox, Lord H. G. Vance, John
Duncornbe, 0. Liddell, 11, G. Vansittart, G.
Du Pre, C. Lockhart. S. E. Waddington. D.
East, Sir .T. Lovaine, Lord . Waddington, H.
Egerton, W Lushington, C. M. Walcott, Admiral.
Esteourt, T. Lytton, Sir E. Walpole. S.
Evelyn, W. J. Macartney, G. Walsh, Sir J.
Farnham, E. MacGregor, James Warren, S.
Farrer, J. Maddock, Sir H. Welby, Sir G.
Fellowes, E. Malins, Richard Whiteside, J.
Ferguson, SieJ. Dimmers, Lord G. Whitmore, H. II
Filmer, Sir E. March, Earl of Wigram, Loftus T.
Floyer, J. Meux, sir H. Wyndham, Gm.
Follett, B. 5, Miles, W. Wynn, Lt.-Col.
Forester, Cot. Mimes, R. Wynne, W.
Freshtleld, J. Michell, William TELLERS.
Gilpin.. Col. R. Iktoutgoayry, S 4 G. Manners, Lord J.
Gia4StAls, W. Moody, i.; . YOrthoo,oi p If:: .