The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-08 00:00:00

RVEN IN G, APRIL 8, 1856.

grievance. Thera bad been but 10,000 militia vernment would deem it their duty to take into consi-
men raised in Scotland, and but 2,000 billetted deration the arrangements which would have to be made.
at one time throughout that country. Barracks in He was not aware of any objection to assimilating the
Scotland were situated at a, great distance from each . Scotch to the English law, and he was quite ready to
other, and without soldiers could be marched at consider what means would be necessary to provide that
once direct from one batemoks to another it would ' accommodation which would enable them to relieve
be impossible to dispense with billeting the soldiers of ! householders in Scotland from the existing grievance.
the line on the people, unlees barracks were erected in 1 After a few words from Mr. TELORNELT, amidst loud
almost every town in that country. I cries of " Divide,"
Sir de FERGUSSON deprecated the present system 1 Mr. MACKIE was understood to inquire whether the
of billetting in Scotland. ILopes bad been held out by ! Government would have any objection to promise that
the Government to relieve that country from this griev- they would assimilate the Scotch to the English law ?
ance, but they had not been fulfilled. In time of war Lord PALMERSTON said he could only state, as at
the patriotism of the people was appealed to present advised, he saw no objection to the change. Un-
to submit to this grievance, and at the end i less there were some objection of which he was not aware,
of the war the people were told the necessity he was perfectly ready to propose the assimilation of the
of the continuance of billetting was at an end, and were ' law of the two countries in this respect.
asked to be satisfied with that assurance, but it was the Mr. COWAN said the grievance was universally ad-
principle against which the people of that country pro- ' mitted ; and he thought they would stultify themselves
tested, and considered now was the time to press their 'if they agreed to any delay. (Cries of " Spoke,"
grievance and obtain a remedy before another war might " Order," and " Divide.")
unhappily occur.
The house then divided, when there appeared-
Mr. EWART hoped that the Government would For the resolution
have proposed a remedy for the injustice com- Against it - ll6
plained of. The Scotch _people complained that there Majority 23
was one law for that country and another The announcement was received with cheers from the
for the people of England and Ireland with regard to Opposition.
the billetting system. In the former, the poorest inhabi- Viscount PALMERSTON understood that it would not
tants had the militia and soldiers forced on them, which be at variance with a precedent which had been pointed
was not the case in England and Ireland. It was no out to him if he were now to move that the house do im-
answer to the grievance to say it was in accordance mediately resolve itself into a committee of supply.
with the law of that land, which dated upwards of 150 Mr. DISRAELI did not wish to raise any difficulty with
yegard to the noble
nerd'l motion ; but he was totally at a
years, and since which many great changes had
roes to understand plain the reiterated assertions of
taken place there, which rendered this system now so
those experienced and ri
very oppressive to the people. ght hon, gentlemen who had said
Mr. J. M'GREGOR also supported the motion. He
that if the house arrived at the politic and just conclusion
they had done, they would beprecluded from pr e l' g
did not expect that this system could be at once put an with the committee of supply. p(Hear, hear.) lieebeegemed
end to, but he did expect that the Government would give to congratulate the house both on having accomplished
a pledge that it should be as soon as possible assimilated that act of justice, and on being also about to go into com-
to that of England. (Hear.) mittee of supply. (Hear.) But he must express his regret
After a few words from Mr. ELLICE, sen., who said that those whose office it wai to glide and direct the busi-
bethought it would be better to wait and hear what her nem of the house should have been so profoundly ignorant
this matter as they had shown themselves to be, unless
Majesty s Government intended to do with regard to the on
force to be kept up during peace, and the accommodation
indeed they had condescended to misrepresent the state of
that would be required, the case, which it was quite impossible to conceive.
(Laughter.) He that this night would be memor-
Lord PALMERSTON said that he admitted the un- able, not only beca seethe Government had been beaten in
desirableness, both for the discipline of the troops and consequence of their having refused to do an act of justice,
feelings and morality of the people, that sob but because they had been enabled to arrive at certain and
diers should be billeted on the public, and more accurate results with respect to the mode of conducting
especially on private families. He thought the barrack the public business.
accommodation of the United Kingdom should be ex- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
tended. At the same time it should be borne in mind that during the division the precedent referred to by
the billetting system complained of was a law that the noble lord had been discovered by the diligence of one
existed before the Act of Union, and could only of the clerks at the table. He trusted that the hi nee would
be remedied by an alteration in the Mutiny rneostobelievethather Mcitisjei:ty's Government were capable of
nou.
Act, which could not be altered until next year, representrtn the a
state resorting to
sstetpe so
of the casee
rable as knowingly to nais-
and therefore Ile hoped the hon, member would not In answer to Mr. C. Bence,
press his motion. Her Majesty's Government would - The CHANCELLOR 'of the EXCHEQUER said the
take the question of billetting into consideration, when precedent referred to had occurred in April, 1850.
they took into consideration 'other matters connected The SPEAKER explained that there was, in fact, no-
with •the array and a state of peace. ' thing in the amendment which had been adopted to nega-
Mr. DUNCAN sail, if the sense of the bOuse tive the motion for going into a committee of supply.
. The. right hon. gentletban then left the chair, and the
were not taken now upon this matter, the grievance
following votes were agreed to : -
Mr.would remain as it wait.
et 6051., to defray the office expenses of the Commissioners
BLACKBURN urged upon the hon. member for of Edncation, Ireland.
Edinburgh to press his motion. 3,879/., for the University, of' London
The LORD-ADVOCATE, admitting the grievances 7,510 e, for the Universities, &c , Scolland.
which existed, could not agree to the resolution which 2,4151. for the Queen's Univers.ities, Ireland.
affirmed that means should be taken to remedy the evil Mr. IeI."MAHON complained that only 201. was voted
without eugeesting what those means should be. He for the examiners in the Celtic languages, which he pre-
did not think that assimilating the law in England to sumed included the ancient language of 'lreland. That
that of Scotland would meet the grievance complained of. was almost the smallest sum voted to examiners-those in
Mr. LAING said that as the Scotch system of bil- Greek, Latin, and mathematics, being allowed as much as
letting was a clear and undoubted grievance, he hoped 10„1.
the W. WILLIAMS said the alloannTintrottlbe profels-
the hon. member for Edinburgh would press the motion 90
1. Greek and of mathematics at
30/. Considering that there were in the Queen'sgsv ausniovury.
to a division, notwithstanding the opinion of the Lord.
Advocate that it would lead to no practical result. The cities no fewer than 22 professors, and that not less thane
assimilation of the Scotch system-to the English, which 15 gold medals and 3e51. in premiums and exhibitions were
was only a consideration of pounds, shillings, and pence, annually given away in order to induce 41 persons to be
. would be the first result, and that would be followed by examined; he did not think the hon. and learned gentle-
a general review of the whole system. man ought to be deesatisfied. (Hear.)
Mr. CRAUFURD said he considered that a great Mr. HORSAIAN said the Government did not arrange
and utedoubted gr:evance existed, to which some practi- tdioe amohunt of salary !o be given to each of the examiners.
votedt for the university ; and the authorities
cal remedy should be applied, and therefore he trusted of trgauteun'Tvaser
einra.daretthe. distribution. 0 It was said the
examiners ware oyv
that his bon. friend would press his motion to &division,
ain(
aivneprario,rofiotzet
exthaeminnuereasbetrbeof
Mr. SPOONER said that, as an English member, he students; but takinif
should vote for the motion before the house, for no one were paid much less than those of he University of London;
appeared appeared to deey that the system of billetting in private the average of the latter being 1001.,' and of those of the
houses was injurious to the discipline of the army and to University of Dublin, 701. The smallness of the number
the comfort of the people. If he had had any doubt on of students was accounted for partly by the new colleges,
that paint, it bad been removed by the speech of the and partly by a more severe course of examination having
Under Secretary for War. been adopted last year
-
Viscount EBRINGTON said that, after the speech Mr. MeSIAHON said be must protest against this item.
of the noble lord at, the head of the Government, he twMeern.l.n'on. WILLIAMSn.vsity and those Irish universities.
system would be put an end to.r said there was no comparison
ebe-
thought the house might entertain the hope that this The formnr received
students from' colleges all over the
country, add the num
geber must be immense He reretted
Sir G. GREY said he had heard with surprise the that the Irish colleges had not been more. successfugl than
determination of the hon. member for Warwickshire they had been. - .
- - •
•
(Mr. Spooner) to vote for the resolution. His noble The vote was then agreed to, as were the following :-
friend at the head of the Government ha-1 said that the 4,8 W., expenses of the Queen's Colleges inlreland.
subject would be deliberately considered, and yet the 5301., expenses of the Royal Irish Academy.
3001., expenses-of Royal Hibernian Academy.
hou. member had wished to pledge the house to a hasty
vote on the subject in the shape of a mere abstract re- fas2t,,a7sl , for the expense of theological professors at Bel-
Upon this vote,
ties The noble lard had promised that the goes- Mr. HE YWORTH 'e I ,tas an amendment, that 1, 500 '.
Con should be fully considered, and he thought it would should be disallo w maunvii hat compensation should be
be better that it should be lelt in the hands of the Go- made on reasonable terms. He contended that thegrant
Col.
had originally been made on political gro dB. . t worts
Col. DUNNE said he hoped it would be understood certainly not on religious grounds , for ituwua
that the house was not asked to vote as to the expo- only toPresbyterians but to Unitarians, who taught i.gyihvte
annnt a
.t
diency of abolishing billetting altogether, but as to the gonistic doctrines to each other. • If this grant was with-
expediency of removing a particular grievance, drawn the voluntary principle would be more fully called
Mr. A. HASTIE said that his hon. friend the mein- into exercise. Nothing could be more inimical to the in-
ber for Edinburgh only wished to pledge the house to toeure4tosvof trueeniieliiglorfothan to teach its professors to rely
support. The necessary result of
this-that there was a, grievance which ought to be re- this systemm mow
to inrduce the people to give as little as
roedied. As no assurance had been given by the Go- possible.
vernotent, he should counsel his hon. friend to press his Mr. KIRK said the observations of the hon. member,
metion,
however applicable to the Regium Donum, had no sort of
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said reference to the vote before the house. That
vote was for
that in reality the question resolved itself into one of the theological professors of Belfast, who were all Presby-
finance. (Hear.) It was admitted that the billetting terians. A. similar grant was made for the Sc etch re:river-
isystern was inconvenient and injurious to the morals cities. He denied that the money was given by English-
and cornfortaof 'the people ; but the question was who- men ; Ireland paid the same taxes now as England, and he
el:dense this vote as a right. There was no begging in the
they the house was prepared to take those means which
alone would be sufficient for the removal of the grievance. case-they wereable of begging. (Laughter.) Tee
Those means could not be adopted without additional ex
professorslle done much for the promotion of education. of Belfastfast were most able and deserving men,
•
penditure. He would not express any opinion as to the amHADFIELI) said that if Ireland paid this tax, the
propriety of assimilating the Scotch syetem to the system Mr'R.ouran Catholics of Ireland, three fourths of the popula-
r 1 •
w uch prevailed in England and Ireland, but it seemed tien, were unjustly tafor the support of these Pro
that there were great dote is whether the number of inns teAunt professors. Allot e while these Irish Protestants-
io Scotland would be sufficient for the accommodation of were complaining of being taxed for the support of May-
all the troops. But if that were not done, the only other nooth, and petitioning for the abolition of the grant. He
means would be largely to increase the extent of barrack denied that six prof-ssors were needed at Belfast; three
accommodation, which would entsil a considerable ex would be ample ; two could perform the duties very well.
penditure of money. He trusted after the assurance At one time a single professor, a friend of his, had per-
which had been given by his noble friend that the subject formed all the duties. Tne six professors were occupied
would receive the full consideration of the Geri-affluent, little more the., five months in the .year, and only from
five
that the hon• gentleman would' not press his m ition. to
fifteen hours in the week. Besides the Government sub-
slay, they received fees from the pupils ; and one fth
Mr. C. BRUCE said he was astonished to hear the Dr. Cooke, received in addition 3201 a- -
• 13
eel'
year for distributing
right hon. gentleman state that this great social grievance thin charity, besides about 4001. a-year from the pew rents
was in reality nothing more than a question of finance. of his chapel. The Presbyterians of Belfast were the richest, He should certainly vote for_the motion, body of dissenters th it he kuew of. Lest year they raised
Mr. DISRAELI said he could not agree that the hon. 30,0001. for.menses for their ministers, 10,000/. for the mis-
memberstihocnary society, besides large sums fur other societies. Let
for Edinburgh ought to have brought forward
this question as a substantive motion. It was a national their n
it:aenjias to
ore as irethteheynisivl;inre generous;l let them take
grievance, and it appeared to him that the boo. eentle- Dissenters were ashamecr of therreixfeoreagnuceer.t. Theirt brother
man, upon going into committee of supple, had takenb a grants. Not a single body of DissentersP Lngthliisese pitiful
fair opportunity of bringing the entejset before the house. condescended to do so. It was denied that Unitarians
He (Mr. Disraeli) had been struck by the objections, received any portion of this grant; but he found from thes
which seemed to him to be inconsistent. The Secretary estimate itself that they did so. Thus the House of Cone-
d State said that it was a mere abstract resolution which mons was asked to vote money for those who maintained
- -would produce no effect., while the Chancellor of the the divinity of Christ and for those who held such a belief
Exchequer said that is was one essentially prac-
to be idolatry. He believed this grant had a most perni-
tical, which assumed in reality the shape of a financial cious effect upon the people of Ireland, because it prevented
vote. He could not agree with the right hon. gentleman the dissemination of divine truth and moral culture to a
' that, if the house should arrive at that vote that it would
agreat extent. Hew as sure, if they withdrew this grant,
. - other similar which amounted to U/ 'OO
be a mere abstract resolution. But even if it were, lie would made up
could not admit that it would be-barren of result. It house prepared to grant money by this vote for the support
would be one which would counsel the Government to of Calviuistic doctrines, and in the next to grant money
take a particular course, leaving to the Government to for the support of Unitarian doctrines ? The Roman Ca-
decide the best means of carrying that resolution into tbolics were watching this inconsistency. The only effect
effect. (Hear.) Ho was persuaded, if the resolution were of this would be to create a disregard and disrelish for re
-
carried, that it svou'd not be barren of results, and he must ligion in general. Was the hen. and learned member for.
confess that he could not see how this grievance could be del
prepared to vote money for the propagation of infi-
81tel doctrines? Could anything be more calculated to de-
remedied unless the house expressed some opinion on the
ofroy religion and to encourage scepticism than this mode
subject. The observations of the hon. gentleman the supportingont religion ?. He intended, after the house
Under Secretary for War would induce him (Mr. Disraeli) voted h present motion, to take the sense of the com-
. as an English member, to urge upon the hon, member to
.mitten on the next vote also. press Isis motion, for the hon. gentleman (Hr. Peel) said Mr. CAIRNS said that one portion of the hon. gentle.;
. that it made no difference whether soldiers were billeted man's speech answeeml the other, because he said in the
first
on private families or on innkeepers. Fly billetting the part that these grants. were calculated, to cramp voluntary'
soldier upon the tavern-keeper they committed no social efforts, an I the next moment he said that the Presbyterians
outrage, and no violation of those feelings which men in raised large sums of money for the support of their own
this country especially respect and reverence ; and there- doctrines. The hon. gentleman complained that the proles-
fore the argument of the Under Secretary for War was not sors only gave five or six hours each week to the business
of teaching. He did not know whether the hon. gentleman
,
only fallacious but if sanctioned would be fraught with
know mtuiLht aitcquaincteotd with colleges, but if he was he must
very dangerous consequences. When this grievance was
universally complained of by Scotland, and was acknow- fart of the lowfuessorsahlutewstlitoenthoefr giving more time on the
honstudartsacould give
!edged by the Government in as strong terms as were used more energyP andSatiention Shan the
r e h d yto these
in the resolution, he did not see how they could take any studies, Consideriug the other clas h
ses t ey had to attend to.
other course in the present instance than accede to the re- ' He denied that the professors were paid too much for the
solution, which did not call upon' the house to interfere duties they had to perform. Every one of the professors in-
with the matter of barrack accommodation for soldiers, eluded in this vote was an orthodox Presbyterian. But the
or to declare that_ the system of billeting should be mid- hon. gentleman said that there were other grants which
denly and coMpletely put an end to, but simply that this went to the support of infidel doctrines. If that was the
particular great and acknowledged grievance should be ground of opposition, the hon. gentleman should move the
,terminated. - rejection of the vote altogether, and not its diminution.
Mr. V. SMITH said the remark of the Home Se- Mr. HEY WORTH said that be' would withdraw his first
cretary had been, mistaken. He did not complain of
motion, and move instead that the vote be reduced by this resolution as a grievance, or that it- ought not to 6000, leaving 900/„. as a pension or compensation to the
have been brought ou then, but on the contrary that professors.
FOX said question was whether it was
it was a fitting time to do so, and that having stated a true Policylo grant' un!, real
money to establish a branch of
grievance he had omitted to propound a remedy, and Scotch Presbyterianipsm in Ireland. He could uuderstand
which ought to have been the subject of a substantial a government supporting a religion because it was
motion. If the house agreed to this resolution, they true. He could also understand a government supporting
would in effect decide that bilk tng should be aboli.lm3,, is religion because it was the religion of the majority, but
The statements of the, Under Secretary of War had been ' the present, grant could not be upheld on either of these
grounds, because. Presbyterianism was not the national re-
" mistaken. He had stated what was considered a griev- ' rei n nor was it the religion of the aeo • m rity of the people
ance in Scotland, was also considered so by the innkeepers °f Ireland. It was like reap
of England, and that if . they abolishel the system in an attempt to sup %art the
dothter. grants of the same kind,
by the money
Scotland, they would be called upon to do su in England , of the reauy-thepreligion oransueesctufba ftehwe
4.080 ; and by doing that they came to the Statement of ' nation. (Hear.) It did not stand on s;he sammeougeryuunfdtirs
the Chaucellor of the Exchequer, that the country would the vote to the Scotch professors, because in Scotlandu the
be called upen to grant sums of money for providing religion of the majority of the people was Presb t •
barrack accommodati n throughout th ki d - ism. He should recoriamend the opponewtsof the Maynooth
oe ng om.
..
Mr. ELLIOT •
said that the house bad been delayed ,grant to consider well the grounds on which . . they sup-
fro • •
Ported the present one. This was the ]Maynooth grant of
m going tote committee .of supply the speech of the Under Secretary f W ' • - .
for Ar, which had rouse 1 the feelings of the Scotch member') who `were
generally of a quiet in his duty by the hon. member-for Oldham. He should
disposition and rarely troubled the
the hon,
gentleman
should
have -honse. Here gretted '•
I support this vote because it was-for the support of truth,
-made that speech, be- Maynooth grant because
1 but he should oppose the it
went
cams it would compel-bine to vote asuperstitious fables. (Laughter.)
gailist the Govern- !to support meat on this questions. The hom 'geritieneene by his " ' I Sir J. FERGUSSON said that the present vote was a
inu- I dicinus speech,. bad pulled a liernede-neet abent h.ear I'grant teethe CUllege of Belfast.. Nowe in the north of
Mr. 'JAS. M'GREGOR pointed Out -the iris re . 'lreland the Presbyterians were in a majority, so that, on
of postponing the application of a remedy Le , oapa riotad
his own showing,- the hon. membor-for Oldham ought to
mitted grievance in Scotland, becaneethere was another - vote for it.
grievance of a-similar kind Which ought to be remedied Mr. MOWBRAY said he should support this grant as
' in England.
• long as the Government supported the grant to Maynooth.
(Laughter.) If, however the hon. member for Sheffield
Lord PALMERTSTON said the right hon. gentle-'t wont to the support of a
Man opposite had considerably misrepresented what fell- , &owed that any portion
shouldn i
join with him in opposition
from him. What he (the noble lord) stated -svas this--- to
tilaartian minister, he
Pant of the vote. .
he.adntitted that the grievance its Scotland co:insisted' in ' '' The housePm then divided-
the, liability of private houses to have soldiers quartered ' For the amendment 3l
upon them whereas in England, thatliability was confined 1, ,Against it . .
to public-houses. He stated that a legal liability on
.this ‘' Mr. cßossigEr moved to reduce the vote by the sum
subject had been entered into-by the Mutiny-Act, and `of a 251., fer six and a half years' mistakes in-Mr. Young's
that the liability so incurred cotild only be changed whoaretired allowance: MneWILSON believed that the hon. gentleman was not
the act came' on again next year. He also stated that if
: sowireatted with:the circumstances of this vote.. In 1850,
that liability was takei away b,y` the law, it would be
Colleges were established, the professors
neeeiwary to provide ti '- - • thAt th' Cko•' " t Ili Bellaete'n's.
. . .... -0 ar weans sad . the • a ao ae *Academical Iwititution• were dukco4tuag,d.
: . • ..
~

- Tne Irish Government proposed to grant them a retired which was the amount proposed for the travelling ex-
allowance of 1501. a year each. The Treasury agreed as re. penses.
garded the other professors, but suggested that Mr. Young Mr. H. VERNON said that while seconding the amend.
the professor of mathematics, was eligible for a situation went of the hon. gentleman he should feel himself com-
in the Queen's College. It was found that there was no polled, in many respects, to express different opinions from
vacancy for him ; but in drawing up the minute for his him. In common with the hon. gentleman, he felt that the
allowance 1001. was inserted by mistake for 150/. A. few committee ought to be satisfied why they shoal(' be called
weeks ago he (11r. Wilson) kid his attention drawn to a upon to pay C5O/. for travelling expenses. Having taking a
memorial from Mr. Young, and on looking overthe papershe j very active part on the committee appointed to confer on
found that a !mistake had been committed. He hoped the i this matter, he certainly had been surprised to find that a
house would now remedy that mistake, as there was no ' secretary had been appointed at a salary of 7501. a-year, in
doubt Mr. Young had been unfairly treated. (Hear.) addition to a director at 1,0001. a-year and a travelling
Mr. CROSSLEY withdrew hisamendment, as Mr. Young agent at 3eo/. a-year: Ho was at a loss to understand what
was a mathetnaticel and not a theological professor. was the object for appointing a secretary. He certainly
Mr. SPOONER moved to reduce the vote by the sum of considered the appointment to be a mere job. The sole duty
300'., the allowance to the two professors of divinity of the , he would have to perform was one of a mechanical nature
non-subscribing association. He did so because 4t had been ' —simply that of drawing out a Catalogue Raisonnee,
admitted that the doctrines taught by these professors were chiefly of the Italian masters. He always understood that
opposed to the principles of Christianity. that would form part of the duty of the director. He was
Mr. HADFIELD had intended to move the disallow- against the employment of a travelling agent, as hebelieved
ance of these salaries, not on the ground stated by the hon. that pictures might be purchased in a better manner. He
member for Warwickshire, but because ho objected to pay thought there were persons in this country who would do
the professor of any denomination. the duty without its being necessary to pay a travelling
Mr. KIRK did not hold the opinions of these professors, agent. He felt bound by a sense of duty to make these re-
but he thought it great injustice to refuse their small al- marks. He was in a position different from that of the hon.
lowance, after the votes for other denominations, gentleman, for he had the pleesureof the personal acquaint-
The committee then divided— ance ofSir C. Eastlake, therefore he bad no wish to say any-
For the amendment
Against it
Mr. CHEETHAM moved to reduce the vote by 2501., C. Eastlake himself that he (Mr. H. Vernon) should wish to
allowed for incidental expenses of the General Assembly's see that gentleman a director of our NationalGellary. At
college at Belfast. He protested against tho doctrine of the the sam e time it was fair to state that it would be difficult to
hon. member for Warwickshire that any man had a right pointoutanyotherperson whopossessed betterqualifications
to set up his own religious opinions in that house •, but he In Sir C. Eestlake the Government had found a gentleman,
opposed the veto because he did not see why the General and a man above all sordid considerations. He was a person
Assembly should ask for public money when so many of great refinementand of considerable pictorial knowledge.
other denominations in the three kingdoms supported Whether in all respects he had displayed a sound judgment
their own seminaries. was a matter he would not then enter upon. In some
Mr. WILSON said this vote was an equivalent for the remarks on the subject of the spurious " Holbein " Sir
salary of one prefessorship, which had been discontinued. Charles Eastlake himself candidly, acknowledged that he
After a few words from Mr. HADFIELD and Mr. KIRK, did not know anything of art, except of Italian art. Sir
The committee divided— Charles Eastlake hid stated, upon the authority of a well-
For the amendment '' 36 known artist, that a Velasquez had been well restored.
Against it - That artist was summoned before the committee, and he
The vote was then agreed to. stated distinctly that he had been employed by a picture.
On the question that 25,6t3/, be voted to defray the dealer to repair the picture, and that he had supplied a
fittings anti buildings of the British Museum, space equal to the size of a sheet of foolscap paper in the
Mr. A. PELLATT complained that the estimates exhi- picture.. He (Hr. Vernon) was so astonished at this
bited no contrast with those of former years, but he could statement that he went to the artist himself and care-
inform the house that a sum of 100,0001. was voted in 18'4, fully exaaniaed the picture, when the artist said that he
and 27,0001. in 1855. He highly approved of such institu- did not believe it was a werk by Velascinez, and that
tions as the British Museum, and was glad to see that con- the only part that was touched by him was the back of
siderable improvements were going on for the accommoda- a mule. The same artist stated that his (Mr. Vernon's)
tion of the public. There was one matter, however, that grandfather had placed his pictures in his hands to
he had to find fault with, and that was the number of have them restored; and that Mr. Payne had damaged
days in the week that the British Museum was closed to one of the pictures, and had made a great hole in it.
the public. He stated that it was a Rembrandt, that he had painted a
Mr. WILSON said there was another vote connected black man iu it, and that his hon. relative the member for
wlth the British Museum, and when that vote was pro- Oxfordshire had said that it was a good picture; and was
posed would be the fitting time for discussing the points well restored. NoW, such a picture never belonged to his
raised by the hon. member. grandfather—(hear)—and the hon. member referred to de-
Mr. JAMES M'GREGOR thought parts, though not pied that he ever said anything of the sort attributed to
the whole, of the Museum, might be thrown open to the him. Nevertheless; he believed that the gentleman stated
public every day in the week, what he believed to be true ; and he merely mentioned the
Mr. GLADSTONE said it was only right that he should circumstance to show how inaccurate souse statements in
state, on behalf of the officers of the British Museum, that reference to matters of fact were. He had seen the story
the item of printed books was only a sum taken on account, in the newspapers, but he had not taken notice of it before,
and they would have to come again for another vote on the as he was not in the habit of writing to newspapers. With
same account, respect to Mr. Mundler, he had been very ,nuch startled to
The vote was then agreed to. hear the story about the Correggio. He had seen Mr.
NATIONAL GALLERY. Mundler in some of the towns of Italy, and that gentleman
On the vote of 17,63e1. for the expenses of the National apeeared to be au extremely painstaking and laborious per-
Gallery, son, and ha had heard his opinion with reference to pictures
very favourably spoken of by competent persons. He also—
Mr. OT WAY rosy to move that the vote be reduced by though his opinion might be worth very little—was favour-
-6501. The reasons which induced him to do so were, be- ably impressed with what he saw of Mr. Mundler. He
cause he believed, first, that the appointments to the post could not help lamenting that the director should have gone
of director and travelling agent were bad; and, secondly, abroad in company with Mr. Mundler for a considerable
that the sum of money was not only unnecessary, but po-
time, for be did not think that that was the most likely
way to buy pictures cheaply. (Hear.) A travelling agent,
sitively unnecessary. As regarded the two gentlemen who
if there were to be one, should keep himself as quiet' as
held those appointments, he had no personal acquaintance possible:. (Hear.) In his opinion, Sir C. Eastlake, if al-
with them. His only knowledge of them was founded lowed a fair trial, would prove himself more worthy of
upon the manner in which they had discharged their duties,l in fijd eut
lee causedtlithan the
publicwllie
had
recentmuc seunfortunate
wouldpicmhaeze,
and his only motive in opposing the present vote was, that
him appear to be. Having said thus much in justice to Mr.
he firmly believed that their appointments to the positions Mundler and Sir C. Eastlake, he must express his opinion
which they occupied was prejudicial to the public service. that the sum for travelling expenses was a most wasteful
In the year 1853 the administration of the affairs of the expenditure of money, and he trusted that some explana-
National Gallery had given rise to ranch conversation, and a
tidn would be given of the duties of Mr. Wornum
received 750/. a-year. , who
committee of that house was appointed to inquire into the
Mr. BOWYER agreed with what had fallen from the hon.
whole subject. Subsequently to the report of that committee member for Stafford, but was inclined to go further, beeause
the constitution of the National Gallery was altered, and he could not help thinking that 1,0001. a-year with travel-
in a Treasury minute, dated March 27,1855, the following t director—
passage occurred :—" My lords propose to appoint a direr. ling expenses was toe great a remuneration to he
regard being had to the duties performed. The most int-
portant part of his duty consisted in getting opinions with
tor of the National Gallery, with a salary of I,COO/. per respect to the purchase of pictures, and he should have
annum, such appointment to be for a term of five years, thought that Sir C. Eastlake and the Royal Academy of
but the director to be eligible for reappointment, which which he was President, and which enjoyed privileges
appointment, however, may be at any time revoked by the from the Government, would have considered it an honour
to be consulted in reference to the purchase of pictures,
Treasury. My lords consider it a fortunate circumstance
and would have given their opinion for nothing. The first
that they are able to select for the first appointment to this commissioner for consolidating the statutes was paid 1,0001.
important office a gentleman of such high attainments as Sir a-year, and the sub-conimissioners, on whom the great
C. Eastlake, who is president of the Royal Academy, and duty devolved, were paid only 6001. Their duties were
has shown qualifications of the highest order for the office." extremely onerous compared with the duty of Sir C. East-
Now, to that statement he took exception, awl be could lake, who had to give his opinion respecting the purchase
show to the committee that the entire press of the country, of about a dozen pictures in the course of th year, and he
and not only the newspaper press, but periodicals to which thought that there ought to be some more fair proportion
gentlemen on the Treasury bench had been contributors, than appeared is exist between the labour done and the
entirely disagreed as to the justice of it, and then pinion of salary given. He was informed by very good judges that
the press was confirmed by that of persons holding high Sir C. Eastlake made great mistakes in the choice of his
pesitions in the profession, and by di, tinguished amateurs pictures, and he was told that the picture by Paul
and, indeed, he should be able to condemn Sir C. Eastlake Veronese, which cost the country 1,977/., was offered
out of his own mouth. In the Daily Yeses of Feb. 6, 1856, for sale some short time ago for 50/., and that that sum was
it was stated,—" In spite of the many unpleasant matters about its worth. He was acquainted with Italy, and he
which have occurred in connection with the National could well conceive the sensation which would be produced
Gallery, we know of no incident of the kind of so in an Italian town by the arrival of an agent of the British
painful a nature as that which the selection of the ' Ado- Government, sent abroad to purchase pictures. The price of
ration of the Magi' presents. If Sir C. Eastlake be so dull every picture would be immediately raised 100 per cent.
as to suppose this to bo a fit picture to place in our na- He thought that our diplomatic agents might be employed
tional collection, let him hasten to the gallery, and learn to find persons in the different cities who would discover
in the countenances, gestures, and remarks of the visitors what pictures were for sale, and heel inceived that 5001.
to the gallery the lesson be stands so much in need of." e-year for the director of the Nationa Gallery would be
The Times, in a leading article of Jan 7, 1850, stated— more than enough.
" Mr. (Sir C.) Eastlake is, we think, rather b unfortn-
nately selected as a representetive bf pictorial- hrk." The Lord ELCHO could not agree with the hon. and learned
Sun stated—" The ' Adoration of the Magi' is a huge gentleman with regard to the salary of 1,000/. a-year to the
director being too large. Ho (Lord Elcho) was on the
canvass filled with as little regard as possible to colour,
oflBs -1, and it was the unanimous opinion of
or drawing, or correosition. And for this, for this
committeetliat nee'ttee that the officer's of the Nati emit Geller were
thing, we are coolly informed that 2,0)01., in round mem-
utelecr°p'• ',I, tho chief keeper having only 200/. a-year.Y
hers, has ben paid. out of the public purse, in obedience
Where4minch work was to b done' moo should be well paid;
to the advice of Sir C. Eastlake, President of the Royal
Academy—a truly wretched evidence of evil taste, a 1 the db *ttee thought that if a well educated and
blunder that ought to preclude him henceforth from the superior 0•5;1. could anne(. • e esumil ' be got as director ho would be
Butthe Treasury had outstripped
possibility of squandering again the public money." worthSi-
the c Mmitteea inear%e'nerosit n-1 had tar exceeded what
miler articles had appeared in the Advertiser, the Morning
the committee had.recominyenled, for not only had he
Post, the Globe, the Atlas, Bell's Weedy Messenger, the
t 1 what the committee wished, the 1,0001. e.- ear for
Athenceunt, the Britannia, the Civil Service Gazette, the granted
t but p•t al a also at eObly. a- ear
Examiner, the Empire, the Era, the Illustrated Time, ttvitrhe: (jr,
s a appointed secretarymotionma
in the comymit-
John Bull, the Leader, the Lancet —(1, laugh)--the Ob- t' e for trhee ws
not.
t ent nil. secretary with any salar at
server, Punch-(a laugh)—the Sunday Times, in which he 'e
The appoin o
was called the worst roan in the gist place: the; Weekly all.hail
hon.gentleman
travelling agent with a salary of
the e Secretary for the Treasuryy
Dispatch, Blackwood's Magazine, the Church of knyland ee- 01.
Quarterly, the Edinburgh Rev:ew, Tail's Edinburgh Maga-likewise appointed a
e, a-year, and permission to draw so unlimited. am. . cunt
zinc, and the IV6stminster Review. That was the opinion of for tiavehing expenses. Now the question of appointing
a travelling agent was never me ted. before the committee.
the press, and no man could, he thought, go to the National
Gallery without perceiving that the arrangements were not
advantageous to the public service. Why, •' The Adoration ohim (Elcho)appear ,
T Lord it did that those two appoint-
unties were superfluous and unnecessary. He had indeed,
of the Magi," by Paul Veronese, weuld not be appraised expressed his opinion that 1,0001.
a-year was not more than
by a picture appraiser at above 1001., and yet it had cost the a sufficient salary for the
director, an 1 that there was
bundant
country about 1,9771., besides some other expenses. Why, '
a e
ll aware • for the director to do. Bat every gentleman was
Sir C. Eastlake stood condemned out of his own mouth. w that there was a period of the year in which, to
far as regarded the part:base of pictures, there was nothing;
With regard tea picture, falsely attributed to Holbein, Sir to be done iu England. The time when the sales of pic-
C. Eastlake sail—" I wish to state as plainly as poseib'e
' tures took place at the auction-rooms of Messrs. Christie
.
that, with due care, I might have prevented the purchase of and others was during the London season, in the summer ;
that picture, and my not having done so implied a want of
knowledge of the master ;" and, in a subsequent part of
but there was nothing of that kind to be done in the win-
his evidence, he said, referring to the purchase of the same , ter, and that should have been the time for the three-
picture—" In the firet place, I can hardly assume that tor to be his own travelling agent, and to go abroad,
such a director as I think fit for the National Gallery would nnd to do himself what he appeared to have done
Alundl
make such a mistake ; and, in the next place, I would say,
this winter with the assistance of this Mr.
er.
as some excuse for my share of the mistake, that I was Sir Charles Eastlake was an amiable gentleman,of
fortified by. the opinion of a person whom I considered a high literary attainments, but in appointing him the
Gevernment were guilty of a great mistake, (Hear,
competent judge.' And yet may lords of the Treasury
hear.) Under a different title, firstly, as the keeper of the
congratulated the country upon having the opportunity
National Gallery, with the salary of 200/. a-year, from
of selecting such a man for the office of director. Notwith- which office he retired for a short time is consequence of
the purchase of the Holbein, and secondly, as an ex ogicio
standing that expose Sir C. Eastlake was raised to a more
responsible office, anal hie salary was increased to I,ooa/.
trustee after he became the president of the Royal Aca-
a-year. Sir C. Eastlake had offered to purchase the decoy, for 10 years Sir Charles Eastlake had exercised a
picture, anal, in another case a picture which had been very material influence in the purchasing of pictures for
purchased for the National Gallery was bought by a pri-
the National Gallery, and virtually it was he, and net the
vale indivieual, and he thought that such proceedings
and what had been the results? It was clearly prove
trustees, who was responsible for what had been done;
were very irregular. Then, again, the evidence of Sir U.
Eastlake on the subject of cleaning, proved that he was by
mismanaged in regard to the cleaning of pictures and other
before the committee that not only had the Gallery been
no means qualified for such a position as that of director
of the National Gallery. The notions expressed by Sir matters, but that, whilst for comparatively small sums of
Charles Eastlake were really so absurd that any person money most beautiful specimens of Italian art might have
having the slightest knowledge of art must have seen that
been purchased, very large sums had been expended dur-
they were entirely false. What was required ivas to get ing that period upon comparatively worthless specimens of
the colours and the style of the mester ; but Sir Charles
inferior styles of Italian and other artists ; and Sir C.
Eastlake seemed to think that the restorer's art was to Eastlake admitted befere the committee that he had made
glaze over the picture, instead of restoring it to what it
er-
been before. Everybody knew that such a process was
son who should lie at the head of the National Gallery.
these remarks be (Lord Elcho) had felt it his duty to make,
only interfering with anal spoiling a great work of art. If ,
the opinions of gentlemen of high taste-a-if the opinion of however painful, as a personal friend of Sir C. Eastlake, it
was to Lim to be obliged to do so. He had also to corn-
all. the eminent men connected with the National Gallery
e in-
-
if the opinion of Sir Charles Eastlake himself
was not's-efficient, to convince the Government of the bad-
tended appointment first got wind, he hal plain that, although at this time last year when thee
noes of the appointment, he thought they would be con-
asked the Sucre-
vince tart' to the Treasury that the minute of the 27th March
d when 'they heard the evidence of Mr. Hurlestone
might be laid before the house, so as to be considered when
and Mr. Stevens—the former the President of the lucorpo-
the estimates came before them, months of last session
rated Society of British Artist's, and the latter who, having
were allowed to pass, and the minute, which effected most
been professionally educated in Italy, had since been em-
important changes in the constitution of the department,
ployed as a teacher in the School of Design. These gen-
was not produced until he (Lord Echo) received it while
tlemen, and particularly the latter, had written in the staying at a German watering-place,) in the middle of
newspapers in terms of strong condemnation of the pictures
purchasedknownof for the National Galler. There was Mr. Can-
August. (A laugh. He would suggest that some of the
best works of the contemporary artists of foreign countries,
n
art in this counts such as were shown -at the Paris Exhibition, should be
y ; he had equally condemned the pie-
tares purchased by-SirTharles Eastlake. The whole cur-
purchased for the instruction of the art students of our
rent of evidence was condemnatory of the
,ion objected to management a own country.
that-gentleman. He had on a former occasion
Mr. WILSON observed that by the minute of the 27th
the salary of Mr, Otto Mundler as travelling agent. The
of
March, 1855, to which the noble lord had referred, Sir
hon. gentleman (Mr. Wilson) defended the appointment, Charles Eastlake, as director, was made solely responsible
and said that Mr. Otto Mundler was the very best parson for every act done in the management of the National
Gallery, though he might still confer with the trnstetehse;
qtlorairet cdo.uldabee
ratherappointedlh of ourg performancethhte Ghatm r
.ulionddluetrywraes-
yetit wee difficult by any minute, doubtless, to define
Ottoo fAlt
not very favourably known in this country. By an effort
ditties With of the person who was to be thus solely responsible.
of imagination that gentleman had persuaded himself to regard to the motion to reduce this vote by the
believe that he had liscovered a Correggio; and he tried to amount of the travelling expenses, he would say that,
induce the trustees of the National Gallery to purchase it. al though Sir C. E astlake did travel last year, it was no
The transaction, he must say, appealed to him to be enough part of his duty to travel, and that he could not incur any
to raise some suspiciou as to the propriety of the appoint- travelling expenses without the express consent of the
merit, He (Mr. Otway) Wee not contending for anything trustees,for
so impossible as the attainment of the perfectioh of art in Pose. If Ibis amount of 6221. were now
granted by the
this country. Ile had' no objection toltalian or to German house, it was not therefore certain that it would be ex-
artists. But, when they were considering the state of Eng- Fended. Bet the functions of the travelling agent who
hell art and of Englishartists, he thought they would do lied been appointed would be at an end if the house did
well to inquire whether they could not find some English „
not furnish the travelling expenses. It had been considered
artist who might travel on the continent, inspect the gal- that Mr. Mundler was better qualified for that office than
lerias there, and bee -,me the purchaser of pictures for the another, because as a foreigner his presence anywhere
National Gallery, with quite as much judgment anal taste abroad would excite loss curiosity and attention, than if be
as any foreigner. He contended that it was a positive dis- were an English artist of 'reputation, As for the purchase
of this. . . iidvantage to the country that these two gentlemen—Sir picture, which:had beenepaken of so much, an hon.
Charles Eastlake and Mr. Otto Mundler—should be tra., gentlemen had said it was once valued at 501. Now he
yelling about the Contitlent• to purchase pictures. What (Mr. Wilson) could only say that he saw himself a letter
would be the effect of its I being known that there were from Paris, which offered 60,900 f., or 2,4001., for that pie-
two persons travelling abroad for the purpose of tore, at the very moment when .it was purchased for the
purchasing a certain picture for the National Gal- National Gallery. However, Sir C. Eastlake would take
lery ? The arrival of these gentlemen in an Italian or a the entire responsibility of the purchase, and none belonged
German town would create a sensation, and the first effect to Mr. Mundler. If the value of that picture were to be
would be to excite the attention of the venders of the pie- tested by what those who wished to purchase it would give
ture, and its price would be raised; while, in the second for it, it had been got -below the marker price. With re-
place, the suspicion of the Government of the country would gard to, the office of .secretary, it had been thought
also be excited, and the exit of the picture prevented; He best to join that with the office of keeper, and that the
believed -that by the system pursued this country had al- salary should be sufficiently hi di to command the soecr:
ready been prevented from obtaining many good pictures, vices of a competent person. The dutie's were iter
That was in itself a reason for contending not only that tent, including the preparation of a catalogue, which,s,n
the appointment 'of a travelling agent was unnecessary, when completed, would comprise a most inatdeerete g
but that it was positively mischievous. He was prepared history of alt. These appointments wore mc
aafteroi.
to show that, so far from its having been the means of pro- Lord Aberdeen himself had devoted as mu h
andtt
al.
crtriug'for us any great work of art, the only thing it had tion to the subject as a minister could spare;ttrs of art,
procuied was that miserable Paul Veronese. He was aware though much party feeling prevailed upon ma
that if he were to propose the reduction of the salaries this and any appointment which could be made was sure to be
year he might be met with an argument similar to that . objected to by some, he believed they were the best that
which was urged against. the-reduction of the vote for agri. a curd have been made. -
'cultural echools in Ireland—viz., that the gentlemen had Mr. E WART thought the constitution of the Board
been already engaged, and that they could not be dismissed which managed the National Gallery was anomalous and
this yiar.'' He did not not, therefore, now propose to touch inconsistent, a director being appointed who was to be en-
the salaries, bat the travelling expenses were perfectly tirely responsible, yet surrounded by honorary trustees
clear of any such objection. He would therefore move , who impeded instead of assisting him—men of considerable
that the prexent Tote be ;educed by the iitiq Qi 00?.. ' 'wealth; who .vrere appointed,becwaso they. were Ownla of