The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-17 00:00:00

present, I think I ought to state to the house that there was
delivered to me yesterday a despatch from M. Thouvenel to
Coant Persigny, in which the writer asks that the case of
the annexation of Savoy might be laid before her Majesty's
Government for their consideration. The despatch is a
very temperate one. It is clear altogether of natural boun-
daries. It states the case as one of special interests, arising
from special circumstances, namely, that the position of
Italy is changed, that the position of France is thereby
changed,•ancl that therefore this is a special case that de-
serves special consideration. But although it is stated in
the despatch that this question is submitted to the wisdom
and equity of Europe, yet I must say, taking the whole of
the despatch together, and considering, the term used, that
it is necessary for France to have a secure frontier, I think
I should hardly be justified in saying that the powers of
Europe are consulted, and that by their verdict the French
empire will be guided. I have not yet laid this despatch
on the table, but I am stating all that I know on the sub-
ject. We shall consider maturely what answer shall be
given to this despatch ; but the whole despatch, and espe-
cially that part of it which relates to the question that my
hon. friend the member for Tamworth takes such interest"
in—the question of Faucigny and Chablais—is one of so
much gravity and importance that, without saying more
about it at present, I will nevertheless add that it requires
most grave considerations. I shall lose no time in laying
the despatch and the answer to it on the table. (Hear,
hear.)

Mr. ITALIE URTON attempted to say a feW words in
explanation, but the Speaker would not permit him to ad-
dress the hotthe a second time.
SALE OF GAS ACT.

Mr. 11. B. SHERIDAN asked the President of the
Board of Trade, whether the Lords of the Treasury were
now prepared to carry out the provisions of the Sale of
Gas Act, and to have the " gas holder" at once deposited at
the Exchequer. office.
Mr. M. GIBSON said that a great deal of discussion had
taken place with regard to the difficulties which arose from
the defects of the law. He had come to the conclusion that
the act did not require immediate amendment, and that it
might be carried into execution. (Hear.) He had communi-
cated that opinion to the Beard of Trade, but otherwise he
could not interfere, the act giving to the Board of Lade no
authority whatever. (Hear.)
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. BOUVEItIE said that what occurred that evening
induced him again to enter his protest at the mode in which
their proceedings wore conducted, and which were in direct
and gross violation of the standing orders. They had now
wasted between four and five h mrs of valuable time in talk-
ing upon a great variety of subjects, upon which, however
important some of them might be, they could come to no
conclusion. According to the standing orders, the orders of
the day were to take precedence of all other business • but
he had taken the trouble of making a note of the questions
that had been raised upon the question for adjourning till
Monday that night, and the time they occupied. In the
first place the hon. member for Finsbury had taken them
into Kent and raised a ten minutes' discussion on the Kent
coroners. That surely was not a very urgent subject;
the next was a 25 minutes' discussion on the Nawab of
the Carnatic, raised, he was sorry to say, by a Scotch mem-
ber, because they very seldom impeded business. Next
the hon. baronet (Sir F. Smith) had raised a 10 minutes'
debate upon the college at Sandhurst, and, after that,
came three Or four minor Indian questions, followed by
a great debate of 45 minutes on the removal of Irish poor
—an important question, but one that ought to have
been discussed on a substantive motion, and not treated
in this cursory and inconclusive style. His hon. friend
the member for Pontefract (Mr. Milnes), who was a great
sinner in this 'respect, had occupied 15 minutes on a
subject which did not come properly under the notice of
the house at all, and he was followed by the member for
Launceston (Mr. Haliburton), who carried them off to the
Island of St. Pierre ; and lastly, they had the discussion on
Savoy, and the important statement of the noble lord, the
discussion having taken up another half-hour. Now, that
statement would have been much better made to a full house
at five o'clock than in a thin one, when the members were
away at dinner. In fact, the way in which they acted was
damaging them in the estimation of the country as business
men. (Hear, hear.) Looking back at their course that
night, it reminded him of nothing so much as the song with
which Mr. Albert Smith wound up his entertainment, and
rattled over the topics of the day. (Laughter, and " Sing
it.") He could not renew this session the motion on which
he had been defeated, but he gave notice that the week after
next he would move that the motion for adjournment be made
on Thursdays instead of Fridays, and then it would remain
to be seen whether members would curtail their own privi-
leges after having taken the chance of the ballot by bring-
ing forward such questions. • (Hear.)
The motion for adjournment was then agreed to..
CHINA.

On-the motion of going into committee of supply,
Sir DE L. EVANS rose to move his amendment. The
gallant general observed that when he had mentioned the
subject on a former occasion the noble lord said he was ex-
pecting papers from Mr. Bruce. Those papers had been re-
ceived and published, and it appeared from them that Mr.
Bruce was doing nothing, because he was looking for des-
patches from the noble lord. Vast preparations were being
made for an expedition to China, an expedition to pay for
which the sum mentioned by the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would go but a little way. The Secretary for War lid not,
when the subject was before the house, state the exact
amount of the force which was going from India, but he
understood him not to admit that his (the gallant general's)
estimate of it was correct.. He believed that a large quantity
of artillery had been sent to China, and a large battery and
several thongand marines, and altogether there could not be
less than 40,000 men. It was possible ,that the Government
had sent out orders that this force should be diminished. It
was no doubt of portentous 'nag:Rude, and he could not
see that it would be required. (Hear, hear.) It created an
opinion that some serious aggression or conquest was en-
tertained. That it would involve a great expense was clear,
and perhaps next year they would have to submit to an in-
creased income tax. (Hear,) The hon. and gallant member
then referred to a despatch of Lord Elgin's, in reference
to the payment of all expenses by the Chinese Government.
The noble lord said that to fix any sum as an indemnity
would be a difficult thing to do; and he came to tho con-
clusion, upon certain grounds apart from those of morality
and justice, that it would not be wise to drive the Chi-
nese Government to despair by demanding a large sum,
and it might, too, compel them to resort to measures of re-
sistance. The noble lord adopted the view that there would
not be much chance of obtaining an indemnity. The house
would recollect that the troops were proceeding from a dis-
tance of 5,000 :miles, and the stores were being sent 15,000
miles All these matters would cost an enormous sum of
money. (Hear.) The first object which ho had in view
was to induce the Government to select some diplomatist
who should take charge of this great force now ordered for
China.' So long as the matter was in doubt he did not press
it on the Government, but within the last few days they
had been formally told that Lord Elgin was to be sent to
China, and that information had put an end to All anxiety
on the subject—because, no doubt, a very considerable con-
fidence was placed in the judgment of that noble lord ; and
as the great object was to obtain a ratification of the treaty
of commerce which he had concluded, he would be the fittest
person for the duty to be performed. To be sure, it was to
be regMtted that Lord Elgin did not remain at his post
longer on the former occasion, and complete the work which
he had begun. (Hear.) It appeared that these great forces
of the fleet and army would be under the direction of two
plenipofentiaries, two admirals, and tw3 generals, and if
they got on harmoniously it would much surprise him, and
they would be as happy a family as they saw in other
places sometimes. (Laughter.) However, they were all
men of 'great ability, and it was to be hoped they would
act well-together. It was desirable that the house should
know whether the Government 'of this country had ar-
ranged *l'll the Government of France how far these ope-
rations *ero to extend. (Hear.) It was said the army was to
be disonrbarked at the mouth of the Peiho, and march thence
to Pekiu'. Now, one• fourth of the army to be employed would
overthrow any Chinese force that could oppose it, and
therefore, sending such a large army to Pekin might bs
detrimental to the stability of the Chinese Government.
This was to be an inland war, whereas, on the former occa-
sions, they were naval attacks. He did not say that some
decided military demonstration might riot be necessary to
restore the proper feeling towards this country, and to place
matters on a satisfactory footing, but he hoped the spirit of
the language in 'her Majesty's Speech would not be a dead
letter, but be acted ?von. It should be recollected that in
this war there would be uo glory to be obtained, and he won-
dered that the French Government should have entered
into it, bat, he supposed it was in consequence df having a
large array unemployed. He held out these objections, and
he hoped the noble lord would be able to inform the house
that a regular convention or agreement had been entered
into with the French Governnient, and that the matter
would not be left to the chance orders of this Government
or that general. If there should not be some settled agree-
ment for operations they would perhaps find next year that
the expenses of the war had been increased to 4000,000'er
£10,000,000, instead of the sum which would now be asked
for. The hon. and gallant member then moved the follow-
ing amendment instead of the one which he had placed on,
the notice paper :—" That, humbly participating in the
wish expressed in her Majesty's Speech on the opening
of this session of Parliament, viz.—' That she will be gra-
tified if the prompt acquiescence of the Emperor of China
in the moderate demands which will be made upon him by
the allies shall obviate the necessity for the employment of
force ;' and that, in the judgment of this house, the mode-
ration of policy thus indicated on the part of her Majesty
and that of her ally, the Emperor of the French, will best
andcon to promote
to diminish expenditure, avert complications,
promote commerce, the interests of justice, and the
establishment of peace."
Lord J. RITSSELLsaid that with respect to the ques-
tion of his hon. and gallant friend relative to the • question
which he had last raised as to the military operations in
China, tt would obviously be very unwise of the Govern-
ment to state the exact instructions given to the naval and
military commanders sent from this country. The house
would also dgree with him that it would be unwise to make
those instrUctions so extremely strict that officers at a dis-
tance of 1400 miles should find themselves bound by them
in any and circumstances. (Hear, hear.) -With his
hon. and gallant friend he hoped it would not be necessary
for our troops to march to Pekin, but he thought the Go-
vernment would be departing from their duty if they gave
special instinctions that them should be no march on that
city. With regard to the terms of the negotiations, those
should not be settled, on account of the circumstances which
had lately ocentrred. Instructions had been drawn up for
Lord Elgin; in -which the French Government concurred
generally; but there were some points upon which they
wished for further explailationS, and her Majesty's Go-
-vernment considered the better way would be that Lord
Elgin, who.was acqUainted. with Baron Gros, with