The Sun.
London, England, 1860-10-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 13, 1860.

THE LIVERPOOL and LONDON FIRE and
LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY.
Offices, No. 1, Dale-street, Liverpool; 20 and 21, Poultry,
London; Sheffield, Manchester, Glasgow; Sydney, Mel-
hourne,.and New York. •

This Company, by its numerous Boards and Agencies
throughout Europe, Asia, Australasia, South Africa, and
America, affords peculiar advantages to all classes, but espe-
cially to those visiting or residing in Foreign Countries, with
whom the most liberal and convenient arrangements are
made as regards residence, the receipt of premiums, and pay-
ment of the sum assured.
For the security of third parties holding Policies on the
lives of others, this office will not consider such Policies void,
although the life assured should leave the prescribed limits,
provided the holder informs the office of the fact so soon as it
comes to his knowledge, and pays the usual extra Premium
for the risk,

SWINTON BOULT, Secretary to the Company.
JOHN ATKINS, Resident Secretary, London.
Fire Policies due at MICHAELMAS should be renewed by
the 14th inst.

Ist October, 1860.

SIR J. PA lINGTON ON A G.RICULTU.RAL

SOCIETIES AND THE NAVY.

The annual meeting of the Worcestershire Agri-
cultural Association was held on Wednesday, and,
after the usual award of prizes, the annual dinner
was held at the Guildhall. About 100 gentlemen
assembled, the chair being taken by the Hon. W.
Coventry,who officiated in the absence of his nephew,
the Earl of Coventry, the Hon. F. Lygon, M.P.,
taking the vice chair. Among those present were
Earl Beauchamp, Lord Northwick, the Right Hon.
Sir J. Pakington, MX, Sir T. E. Winnington,
M.P., Viscount Emley, M.P., Mr. J. H. H. Foley,
M.P., the Mayor of Worcester, &c.
After the usual preliminary toasts, the CHAIR-
MAN gave " The Army and Navy."
Earl BEAUCHA3IP responded on behalf of the
army.
Sir J. S. PAKINGTON, being called upon, replied
for the navy. That service, he observed, deserved
all honour and respect, as it always received
honour and respect at the hands of every meeting
of this nature. For himself he had no claim what-
ever to have his name connected with the toast
which they had just honoured, except from their
partiality. He himself had no better means than
the public in general of ascertaining what the
present condition of the navy might be ; but,
judging from these means, he had no doubt that
the British navy was at this moment as ready
as it had ever been at any former period to do
good service to the country, if need be. (Cheers.)
In connexion with this toast he felt disposed to
make one, rernark..with _respect to a , matter Ician:k.
netted with the navy, because he felt competent to
speak upon it from his official experience. He meant
the question which appeared to occupy so much of
public attention of late—as to...the policy and expe-
diency of expending a large sum of money in build-
ing armour-covered ships. (Hear, hear.) They
could hardly take up a newspaper at the present
time without seeing strong opinions expressed on
one side Or the other with regard to this question.
He therefore felt it to be his duty to say that it had
been his fortune—it had been his duty as a member
of the late Administration, to propose to Parlia-
ment, seeing that other nations were adopting this
invention, and as they had reason to believe that
the invention would be a most valuable one to the
public service, that they should adopt it, (Hear,
hear.) It had been his duty to superintend and to
weigh the experiments that had been made in con-
nexion with this invention, and the results had been
that these armour-covered ships, although they
might not be proof against every possible attack
under every possible circumstance, were shown to
be so superior to ordinary vessels as to well repay
the extra cost. The late Government had built two
of these ships, the Warrior and the Black Prince ;
the present Government had ordered others, and
he believed the British public would think that, at
all events, this great experiment should be well
tried. (Applause.)
Lord ELMLEY having proposed " The health of
Lord Coventry," the President for the year,
The Hon. W. COVENTRY acknowledged the toast
on behalf of his nephew, and explainedthat his ab-
sence was occasioned by an engagement as Steward
of the Jockey Club. His lordship, however, had
instructed him to offer two prizes of £2O each for
horses for hunting purposes.
Sir J. PAKINGTON proposed the toast of " The
County Members." He said no one was more com-
petent than himself to speak to the fidelity with
which they had discharged their duties.
Viscount ELMLEY, acknowledging the toast, said
the proceedings of the last session of Parliament
reminded him of a rather familiar anecdote. A
gentleman, seeing, two of his servants idle, said to
one of them, " Jack, what are you doing ?" "I am
doing nothing, Sir," was the reply. Then, to the
other, he said, " ora, what are you doing ?" and
the answer was, " Helping Jack, Sir." He (Vis•
count Elmley) must consider himselfi in the position
of Tom, having been daring the past session " help-
ing Jack" to do nothing. (A laugh.) He hoped
that on future occasions he should have a more
satisfactory reply to make to the query at the end
of a Parliamentary session. (Hear, hear.) Com-
paring the position of agricultural societies in the
present day with what they were at their first for-
mation, he said when they had their annual gather-
ing the press next morning used to speak of it as a
meeting of " chs.wbacons: This was not the case
now. They had through the instrumentality of
these meetings brought science to bear upon agri-
culture, and one of these results had been the in-
troduction of ploughing by steam. There had been
a measure before Parliament, and which he trusted
to see carried before long, for facilitating the trans-
fer of land. By this measure those who had debts

upon their property and those who had money for
investment might be mutually accommodated, and
he had no doubt, if the.measure were passed, that
more money would be laid out upon the land than
there was at present.

Mr. J. H. FOLEY also responded to the toast
of " The County Members."
Lord Not TUWICK proposed " The Members for
the City and Boroughs," and said the amount of
physical endurance which members-of Parliament
had undergone for six months of the last session
had been very great. He did not agree with Lord
Elmley that the Rouse of Commons had done no-
thing ; he thought, on the contrary, that they had
done a great deal. Perhaps they had not passed
many bills, but what they had passed they had well
sifted. Indeed, he did not know that they should
have been much better off if more bills had been
passed. For instance, he did not think their con-
dition would have been improved if the Reform Bill
had been passed.

Sir S. PAKINGTON, having acknowledged the eor-
diality with which the toast had been received, said
that, having thus expressed his sense of their kind-
ness, he felt in doubt whether he should not sit
down without troubling them with any further
remarks-7(n°, no)—but he rather leant to the
opinion that these societies were tending somewhat
to too much speechmaking. He was happy to say
that these agricultural associations were becoming
very general, but one result of their so becoming
general was that it really appeared that a part of
the agricultural produce of the country was a large
annual crop of speeches. (Oh, oh.) Of course this
crop varied a good deal in quality. He would not
say that the crop contained a good deal of " chaff"
—(laughter)--but no doubt it was adapted to dif-
ferent markets. (Hear, hear.) One of the rules
of these societies was that politics should be avoided
in their discussion. The.rule was no doubt an ex-
cellent one, but unluckily the practice was all the
other way. He trusted the rule was better than
the practice. He did not approve the practice of
introducing politics at these meetings. He did not
mean to say that there were no occasions on which
subjects of a political nature might be introduced.
He had before expressed his opinion in that place
that the meaning of this rule was to exclude party
politics. There were great political questions, such
as the late rebellion in India, the famine in Ireland,
the position of our army before Sebastopol, and such
like subjects, which might be fairly discussed at
these gatherings as not involving any party ques-
tion. (Hear, hear.) He might find an illustration
in the present day. They might congratulate them-
selves that they were living in England at this mo-
ment at peace and in prosperity. We ought to be
grateful that the kingdom was not torn asunder by
combined or divided factions, nor tormented by the
distressing anxieties which almostevery other nation
but ourselves was perplexed with at this moment.
We were attached to the Sovereign and to the insti-
tutions under which we lived; we had minor differ-
ences among us no doubt, but there was one great
fact for which we could net be too thankful—
that we were a people happy, prosperous, and con-
tented, and while other nations were struggling for
that liberty which we enjoyed, we were meeting
together in these social parties to enjoy each other's
society. 'As a rule they were not to indulge in party
polities at these meetings, but there might be sub-
jects political in their nature to which it would be
almost wrong if they did not refer. The object' of
Members of Parliament attending these meetings
should be not to court constituencies, but to pay
their respects to that mother earth from which
endeavOured to extract as much as they could.
His right hon. friend Mr. Disraeli had set a wise
example in this respect in his own county of Buck's,
where he addressed an agricultural meeting with-
out touching on politics, and he (Sir John) could
wish that those who drew up the lists of toasts at
these meetings would not give the Members of
Parliament for the district so conspicuous a position
in these lists. Their object at these meetings
should be to disseminate agricultural knowledge.
He would tell them that within the last few days
he had travelled through that celebrated farming
district between the Forth and the Tweed. He
had seen there splendid farms with large fields and
small hedges, in which he_ could count the home-
steads because there were few trees to intercept the
view, and every homestead had its steam engine
chimney. There rents were high because farming
was profitable, and farming was profitable because
leases were long.
(Hear, hear.) Every farm was
farmed with a sufficient capital, and the tenant had
no hesitation in investing his capital because he

Meg
had the security of. a loam. (Hear, hear.) The
result was such that was almost afraid to men-
tion it to a Worcestershire: farmer; but he (Sir
'.,Tohn) was told that it was common to pay corn
rents there, and that the re nt of a farm per acre in
that district was the price of two quarters of wheat,
and sometimes three. Sol netimes a farmer paid
£l,OOO, £2,000, and even £3,000 a year for rent,
and had a handsome profit left for himself
afterwards. Now, this was a fine picture of
farming, but he must c onfess that he should be
sorry, in the county of 'Worcester, to see
all their beautiful elms, their wide-spread-
ing soaks, and their rich apple orchards felled,
and to see the Country as treeless as he saw the
country between the Tweeds and the Forth a few
days ago, where they saw mazy chimneys, but
'looked in vain for a lofty tree. But they might do
a great deal in the way of i mprovement before they
arrived at any such desper at() alternative as that,
and he thought they should endeavour to follow
the example which had been, set thorn in Scotland
to a certain extent. He kr ,ew there were some
parts of Worcestershire in which they might see
some very good farming, but let them face the
truth, and they mast admit that that was not the
general character of Worcestc,rshire farming. They
did not stand high id agriculture in Worcester-
shire, and their first object should be to communi-
cate knowledge to each other', and so to turn the
agricultural associations to real practical objects.
He would say that for his petrt he would rather
hear one good practical speech on farming from a
practical farmer than ho world listen to the best
politiiiii.speFeh that a member of Paillainent could
give them. He very much desired that the future
of the Worcester Agricultural Society might con-
duce to these ends. (Cheers.)
Earl BEAUCHAMP proposod the health of the
chairman.

The Hon. W. COVENTRY responded, and severa
other toasts of a local characte.-r followed.

IRON-CASED 811IPS.

The question of iron-cased. ships may be said to
have been practically decidoed by the discussion
which it has received in our columns. Two great
facts appear now to be established. The first of
these is, that all iron plates can be penetrated,
under certain conditions, b,y shot, and therefore
that no vessel, however thus protected, can be pro-
nounced invulnerable. The second is that the re-
quisite conditions are difficult of attainment, and
therefore that an iron-clad vowel would possess a
decisive advantage over an unprotected antago-
nist. We consider these remits as established,
not only because they have been affirmed
and explained by correspondents of unim-
peachable authority, but bemuse they have met no
refutation. Witnesses in abundance, both profes-
sional and independent, have testified to the reality
and importance of the new inseention, but there has
been no direct denial of its merits. Mr. Whitworth
has naturally made a stand for the honour of his
guns. The Gloire, in short, is aiot an invulnerable
frigate, but as she is probably proof against all
shell and a good many shot, few wooden frigates
could encounter her on equal terms. We shall be
excused, we hope, for remind:ing the reader that
this is precisely the conclusion: which we ourselves
submitted to the public.
Now, succeeds, however, the important conside-
ration of the measures to be adopted and the ex-
pense to be incurred in consequence of this new
discovery. The bare announcement of a fresh
" reconstruction of our Navy,",especially on such
costly terms, is enough to fill the nation with
alarm. We have but just emerged from the flood
pf extravagance ensuing upon a sudden panic.
We have succeeded by incredible efforts in almost
doubling the strength of our marine since the
beginning of 1858, and the British fleet has at
length been'brought into a condition befitting our
resources and our position. Is all this ground to
be lost, and have we another up-hill fight to go
through before our Navy can again become what it
should be P We think we can. reassure the public
mind on these points. We see nothing very for-
fnidable before us in the way either of expense or
difficulty: All our wooden ships have not become
useless, and though we shall certainly want some
iron-cased vessels, our wants in this respect are not
so great but what they can be supplied in good
time and without extraordinary charge.
The measure of our obligati:ems is derived, of
course, from the proceedings of the French. Nobody
attempts to blink or disguise that fact, so we have
first to consider what the French have done. They
have taken the initiative, much to their credit, in
constructing men-of-war upon an entirely new
model, and have left us' as on many former occa-
sions, with the duty of following in their steps.
Fortunately, however, they have not yet got very
far ahead. This time, if we do but bestir ourselves,
we need have no great difficulty in recovering our
place. The French have laid d.own ten iron-cased
frigates ; they have launched two, and of these one,
at least, is a complete success. Perhaps • the Nor-
mandie is less of a failure than. has been reported,.
but, at any rate, France has only two of the new
fabrics afloat, and eight on the stocks. We have
on the stocks four such vessels, two of which were
ordered by Lard Derby's Government nearly three
years ago. When these are launched—and we
hope the event may be expedited—we shall at once
be a match for our neighbours in frigates afloat,
and though they will still have the start of us in
the numbers on hand, it will not cost us much to
overtake them. In material, in machinery, and
in all the conditions favourable to such manufac-
tures we possess infinite advantages. The Gloire
herself would have been a better vessel if built in
England. Good as she is, she merely represents
the best that could be done in France.
Much alarm, however, has been created by the
inevitable costliness ascribed to these fabrics. To a
certain extent, no doubt, the current impressions
are correct ; but we hope something remains to be
abated on this score, and we shall presently show
that there are considerations on the other side.
General Peel stated at Huntingdon last week that
the two vessels bespoken by Sir John Pakington,
and now in process of construction, would cost "no
less than a million of money—£soo,ooo each." That
is certainly a prodigious sum. The Duke of Wel-
lington, one of our largest three-deckers, cost but
£1.70,000, and the Orlando, our finest and most ex-
pensive frigate, only £100„000. But we really do
not understand how General Peel's figures were ob-
tained, unless the work has grown wonderfully under
the hand. We remember no • such demand as
£1,000,000 for these purposes in the Navy Estimates
of 1859. There is an item, certainly for ships " to be
built by contract," but it is only £252,000. We were
very well aware that the cost of an iron-cased
frigate would be largely in excess of the old
standard, especially if reckoned by the number of
tons. The old computation, for instance, 30 years
ago, gave £l,OOO per gun as the average cost of a
vessel of war ; this was raised by the modern
system of screw propulsion to £2,000, and the
iron-cased frigate, it was said, would cost £4,000.
Thessresults, however, were produced not merely by
the expensiveness of the ship, but by the compara-
tively small number of guns carried by the new de-
scription of vessel. The Warrior and the Black
Prince mount but 36 guns each, though of enormous
power, and consequently their cost appears larger
than if they carried 60 or 70 pieces of smaller cali-
bre. Assuming, however, that iron-cased frigates
can be constructed for £130,000 each, which was
what we. imagined, they are ' neither extravagant
nor unfavourable bargains. They cost more than
a wooden frigate, no doubt, but less than a wooden
two-decker, whereas they are more powerful, we
are assured, than even the latter class of vessel. If,
therefore, we obtain for £130,000, or even £150,000,
a ship more effective than those for which we have
hitherto paid £160,000 of £170,000, we are clearly
no losers, not to mention that the 36-gun vessel can
probably be worked with fewer hands than the
old 91.
Lastly, let it never be forgotten that without
t o f
submitting to any fresh burdens, or embarkingresenra on
any fresh outlay, we have at ort
expenditure a good million a- spend on new
time to time
ships of such models as yeafromop
may
ythis point because it
be preferred. We insist uponsments have beenins
is here that all our embarrassments
our dockyards for any
curred. If the productso
invariably brought up to the
given year had been
the
eriod, whatever that might
highest mark of
u
havei escaped all our perplexi-
ties been, we shou
ischief has lain in the fact
ties and panics. The m
to obsolete models,
that we always clung too long
h c whi
and thus lavished upon fabrics were pre-
sently to prove useless the labour and funds Which
would have supplied us with specimens of the best
current patterns. What caused us such trouble in
ma was, that whereas at that time the screw two-
decker was the most approved model of a line-of-
battle ship, we, from various causes, had got into
such arrears in the construction of these vessels that
France was actually ahead of us, andlhe most ex-
traordinary exertions were required before we could
recover our place. It might be the same in 1862,
if we again neglected the new pattern, and ad-
hered to the old one ; but we trust the alarm has

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