The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-01 00:00:00

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ment should appear clearly in the estimates. I believe if ' and ability, who was well acquainted with colonial affairs, '
this matter were looked into, we should find that a very and who was one of the founders of one of the most success.
considerable percentage of saving could be effected. I know ful colonies—he meant that of Canterbury. The third gen-
the right hon. gentleman has a large body of clerks who, tleman was Mr. Elliot, who represented the War-office,
having been brought up on the old system, would be disin- and whose appointment was amply justified I y the part
dined to adopt a new one. I will not dwell further upon he had taken on this committee. The la port stated,
that point, but I must add that I think there is some extra - in the first place, that the colonies contributed towards
vagance in the cost of our staff. Ido not wish to select in-
their own defence about one-tenth of the cost, and it went
dividuals, but in order to do any good one must refer to par-
on to say that such a state of things ve,t- unparalleled in
history, and that it was an entire innovation upon the
tioular CAM Until lately there was no such thing as a gene-
earlier treatment of her colonies by England. He (Mr.
ral officer on the staff in the Guards, that duty being generally
Adderley) wished to state, because he believed there were
undertaken by some officer at the Horse Guards. Then,again,
many people in this country who were ignorant of the fact,
there are some corps which have more officers than theyre-
that when the American colonies were first established they
quire. They are also certain items in the payment of Staff
officers which I think it would be for the comfort of those not only maintained their own defence, but they met the
officers themselves should be inquired into. There are also regular armies of France and Spain on the American con-
tinent and defeated them. There were several instances of
other appointme is of considerable emolument which it
would be well to inquire into. A great number of general requisitions being made upon them, of their attacking
Places in the possession of the French and the Spanish, and
officers receive from £5,000 to £lO,OOO or £ll,OOO a year. P
Now, I think £5,000 or £6,000 a year is a sufficient sum for adding them to the 'dominions of the British Crown. The
a bishop, and therefore enough for a general officer. I Mutiny Act was not extended to America till 1758, and it
know it may be considered invidious to make these re- was then the troops of England began to be sent to that
marks, but unless some one does it we shall do no good. country. But to revert to the report. It went on to state
An hon. and gallant gentleman has stated that we have that anomalous as this system was, it was aggravated by
150,000 effective men upon the establishment, exclusive of the inequalities of it : that some colonies, which seemed to
India. I wish we had 150,000 men at home, but that require help the most, were helped the least. Again, in
figure includes the troops in the colonies, which amount to some of the rich colonies her Majesty's troops had allow-
-30,000 or 40,000 men. We must of course keep garrisons ances made to them at the expense of the colony, and a
in certain fortresses, but the question of keeping troops in consequence of this was that her Majesty's Government
the colonies has been treated of in an able report recently were obliged to raise the pay of the troops in those colonies
laid before Parliament, drawn up by three civilians, Mr. where the allowances were not made. Lord Grey, when he
Hamilton, Mr. Elliott, and Mr. Godley. Among the con- was at the head of the Colonial-office, suggested that all
tents of that report is a maxim which it laid down, that the that England should do should be to maintain that amount
real defence of the colonies is in the people themselves, of force in each colony which might be considered neces-
and not in paltry detachments disseminated through the sary for imperial purposes. The report dealt with this pro-
colonies. (Hear, hear.) That is no new thought, however, position, and gave three or four reasons amply sufficient for
for I recollect when I was much younger I lamented the not agreeing with it. In the first place the committee
erroneous system which prevailed of having garrisons in asked who was to say what force was sufficient for imperial
almost all the places in our possession. That was at a time Purposes. The committee divided the colonies and depen-
when the French had no large fleet ; but whether she has a dencies into two classes ; first, those which were formed
fleet or not, I hope the Government will always bear in mind for imperial purposes—whether for military purposes, such
that the real defence of the country is best cared for by hav-
as Malta and Gibraltar, or benevolent purposes, such as
lag a great mass of troops concentrated near the heart of those which were formed for the suppression of the slave
the empire and taking the chance of some little island being trade. The second class were those which were territories
attacked; our best plan is not to garrison all posts, but to and had governments of their own; and the report laid
down the principle that there was no reason why this
mass our troops upon a central point. Even at the cora-
mencement of the tremendous mutiny in India, we had country should contribute to the defence of this class of
nearly 12,000 men, nearly 10,000 of the line, at the Cape of colonies, except that they were not represented in that
Good Hope. The Governer of the colony hid such great house. Mr. Elliot adopted the report in the main, but he
regard for good troops, that although he received several
added to it representations of his own. He would now pro-
orders to detach troops he did not do so. He was first in-
ceed to notice Mr. Elliot's objections. Mr. Elliot would
structed to send troops to the Crimea, but he declined to not accept the proposition that there was any reason why
E
comply, and subsequently he received more than one order, England should undertake the defence of the colonies, ex-
cept that they were not represented in the House of Corn
as has been proved before a committee of the House of Cora- cept
; but he said that the colonies had other claims upon
Mons, from the Colonial Department, to send troops to India,
the mother country, that in fact they took more of her pro-
but he held back. The fact was we were spending nearly a
million a-year for the advantage of the small population of duce than independent states. The same argument was
the Cape of Good Hope. (Hear, hear.) That is one instance made use of last year by Sir George Grey in a speech in
of the effects of the old system. Except in the fortresses which he contended that though the people of this country
which must be held by garrisons, Ido nog see that there paid the cost of the colonial defences in the first instance,
need be any considerable number of troops in any other they were reimbursed by the prices which they obtained for
posts. A very important communication was made to the their goods from the colonists. In other words, he argued
different colonies by the right hon. gentleman the Colonial that there was not an English blanket or pickaxe sold to the
Minister in Lord Derby's Administration, pointing out to colonists on which they did not pay something towards the
them that they were nearly
support of the English army and navy. But if that was the
all increasing in population and
wealth, and ought to develops their own moans of local de-
case, there was no foreign country which consumed Eng-
lish produce which aid not contribute to the support of the
fence without expecting any assistance from the mother
English military establishments. Again, it was urged that
country except in case of war. That . point has also been
ably dealt with in the report to which I have before referred, because Australia consumed more per head of English pro-'
and I hope the present Government will follow up those sug-
duce than the United States, dependent countries were
gestions and say to the colonies that they must place them • better customers than independent ones. But to that logic
selves in a position of self defence. Some have, indeed, done Mr. Godley had given a very pertinent reply. He simply
so. Australia has commenced, and Canada has made consider- took another illustration, and said that, inasmuch as Canada
able progress. The two provinces, I believe, have a militia took less per lead of our goods than the United States, a
amounting to about 200,000 men, a force far greater than dependent stateimported less of English produce than an in-
ourdependentone. He also pointed out the fact that the own militia. The gallant general opposite has referred
consump-
to a most important point, the reserves of the army. when tion of British articles by the United States was much less
Parliament was prorogued at the end of last session there ) before than after they had obtained their independence.
was one paragraph in the Royal speech which attracted my The whole argument was based upon a fallacy which they
attention and gave me much pleasure. Her Majesty con- used often to hear put forward when economic laws were
gratulated Parliament that measures had been taken to form not so well understood—the truth being that foreign and
reserves both for the army and navy, and that the national colonial countries purchased our produce, not on account of
defences were a paramount object in the policy of the Go-
their political connexion with us, but simply because it was
vernment. I think still that ought to be a paramount eon • commercially speaking to their interest to do so. (Hear,
sideration, but lam sorry to say the reserve for the navy hear.) Mr. Elliot next proceeded to lay down the principle
has proved most insignificant in numbers, and the reserve that the aid to be furnished by the mother country to her
of the army hardly exists at all, or at most only to the ex- colonies in the matter of military defences ought not to be
tent of a few hundred men. We have, no doubt, a consi-
regulated by a fixed rate. The report, on the other hand,
derable force in the shape of volunteer corps, which we owe contended that the amount of assistance should be settled
entirely to the public spirit and patriotism of the country, by a rule, from which there should be no deviation,
The Government are entitled to very little credit in respect except by way of exception, of which exceptions par-
of that force, for the truth is that for a time they seemed to liament would be able to take cognisance. Mr. Elliot
doubt whether they should encourage or discourage the
wished to leave the matter, as at present, to the discre-
movement. (Hear, hear.) lam sorry to see that an hon. tien of the Colonial-office ; but it was the evils arising from
baronet (Sir R. Peel) has thought it necessary to give no-
the present system which had caused the gallant general
tics of a motion that the vote on the estimates for the volun-
(General Peel) to appoint the committee. There could be
teer force should be reduced. I can only say that I believe very little doubt which principle was the wiser. Mr.
Elliot divided the colonies into four different classes, in-
the movement has been, on the whole, very satisfactory, and
was happy to see the amount of the force lately stated autho-
stead of the two specified in the report ; but those four,
ritatively to amount to 120,000 or 130,000. lam sure that the after all, resolved themselves pretty much into two—viz.,
right hon. gentleman the Secretary for War will give to that those in which the European element was stronger and
important force all the encouragement it so well deserves. those in which it was weaker. He mentioned the 'West
(Hear, hear.) I rather regret, however, that steps have not Indies as an instance which had a peculiar claim for a
been taken to enlarge the basis of the force. (Hear, hear.) large contribution to their defences ; but having been an
lam afraid that in some quarters there is a little jealousy officer of the department, he must have known that the
felt as to allowing the people at large to join in this.move-
troops upon which the European inhabitants relied for pro-
tection against a rising of the coloured population were
meat. I will only remind such persons that one of the
themselves men of colour. (Hear.) No doubt, if there was
greatest Powers of Europe—Poland—fell and disappeared
from the rank of nations through the jealousyto be an exception from the fixed rule, the West Indies
cracy towards the of the aristo-
would present the strongest case for such an exception in
great mass of the people. (Hear.) I very
their favour. But why ? It was because this country had
much regret that nothing has been done to establish a
volunteer force in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) I know very well interfered most with its natural policy, with its supply of
labour, and with the price of its produce. Mr. Elliot men.
that an idea exists that the people of Ireland are disaf-tioned Ceylon as a country which contributed 50 per cent.
fected, and that those who profess the Roman Catholic re •
ligion are not so loyal to the British Crown as they ought
of the cost of its defences, and said that no more bur-
todens should be thrown upon it, because a great ex-
be. It appears to me, however, that the sympathy
which many of the Irish people have evinced for the Papal penditure was going on in railways and other works of pub-
cause ought not to excite the least apprehension. There lic utility. But what a reason. We were making railways,
is no reason to suppose, because sympathy has been mini-
and carrying out great works of public utility in this coun-
fested towards the Pope, that they are therefore disloyal to
try ; but for all that every poor man was called upon to con-
the British Government. (Hear.) It is a complete mis-
tribute his share towards the defence of the empire. (Hear,
take to think so, and one that ought to be rectified. We
hear.) The present state of things could not be allowed to
are told that the law does not admit at present of the em-
remain ; and what he wished to ask the Government was,
bodiment of volunteers in Ireland. If such be the law, I
how they were going to deal with the important report which
say, as I have said before, that it ought to be altered with-
had been made by this committee ? That report proposed a
out delay. (Hear.) In the letters of the Duke of Welling-
material change in our present system, a change which in
ton, just published, and to which I have already alluded, I his (the right hon. gentleman's) opinion would be of very
find that in 1808, when there was infinitely greater cause
great benefit to the country, would add greatly to the effi-
ciency of the army, would be attended by a considerable re-
than now of disaffection towards the British Throne, the
Duke writes with much satisfaction to say that he has or-
duction in the amount of our taxation, and would impart
ganised a volunteer force of between 40,000 and 50,000
safety and vigour to the colonies themselves. He did not
a-.
men ; and the population was considerably less at that time ask the Government to act upon that report hastily, or with
o
than it is now. We have had Irish militia regiments in this out due consideration ; but he wished to know whether they
country, and I should like to know if any one ever thought were prepared to adopt its principles and to carry them into
of distrusting those troops ? (Hear.) There are, too, the effect as opportunity presented ?
Irish constabulary, almost all of whom are Roman Catho-
Lord R. CECIL differed entirely from the views of the
lies ; but I never heard that disloyalty was imputed to that right hon. gentleman who had just sat down. He thought
fine body of men. These, in my opinion, are all arguments it a matter of regret that the report had got into the hands
o
to prove that we ought to have a strong volunteer force in of hon. members ; for he did not consider that the practice
Ireland as well as in this country. With regard to the which was gaining ground, of substituting for the speech of
feelings of the people of Ireland on this subject, I would a minister in that house a printed opinion of his permanent
refer with much pleaaure to an excellent speech lately de-
subordinates, was likely to be productive of benefit. How-
livered by the Catholic Bishop of Kerry, in which he an- ever, the report had been published, and the only result was
swered some statements said to be made rather too
that it disclosed a serious difference of opinion which there
favour-
able to the French Government. He said such statements seemed to be no way of settling, except by referring the mat-
arose from a want of "consideration ; that he did not be- ter to acommittee of the house. Two of the committee (Mr.
lieve his fellow-countrymen or the priesthood would be so Hamilton and Mr. Godley) appeared to him to have rather
wanting in common sense as to desire to have a species of exceeded thelirnits of the reference which the gallant gene-
despotism in Ireland such as existed in France ; and he re- ral (General Peel) had made to them ; for instead of exa-
minded them that they would not have been allowed in mining into the circumstances of each colony, one by one,
France to make such speeches as had been made in reference they had gone into a statesmanly discussion of a number of
to this subject. (Hear, hear.) The late Secretary for War metaphysical topics, such as the best mode of exciting a feel-
(General Peel) had spoken of the exact force now in this ing of patriotism, and other matters, which were wholly
country, mid has declared it as his opinion that that torce beyond the purview of their instructions. He had the
greatest respect for Mr. Godley, but he did not think that
is quite inadequate. In that opinion I entirely concur.
(Hear, hear.) The nominal force in this country at the much stress could be laid on the fact that he had been a
present moment is quite inadequate, and lam not satisfied colonist and was now at the War-office, because having
been himself in the colony whilst Mr. Godley was there, he
with its composition. Let us economise as far as we can.
NO one will be readier to do so than myself; but the pea_
(the noble lord) was entitled to state that Mr. Godley held
then the same views that he had expressed in the report ;
session of a numerical force that will enable us to fight in
the field is the great objeet that we ought to aim at. (Hear.) and the fact of his subsequent connection with the Depart-
ment of War had therefore had nothing whatever to d;, with
We are told that we have 150,000 men, but we have no
such number in the United Kingdom. (Hear, hear, from
them.lie (the noble lord) must also dispute the claim of
Mr. Williams.) The hon. member for Lambeth no doubt
the Canterbury colony, the most successful that this coun-
a but try had `ever founded. The fact was it had entirely failed
this includes men for the colonies, and some of them
knows all about it. We may have 150,000 men in
py,
areevery in particular in which it differed from other colonies.
highly garrisoned. (Hear.) Ido not believe we have more
hade
tuahgcerhsmee
itatttehl
themselves
advantages
greatta
hn perfectly
afge
(Mr. Adderley—No, no.) The colonists had not received
er
fertile
iltwer
prosperity,uhl
aei enl
tidh tohft
he
tye4h, wereeocoo l
district,dE gro-
innn got-
than 30,000 troops of the line at home ; of these 20,000 are
hifiiolasi srhd etmrhdeee;ani
pi iid3hf
who
perto hro
depots, and these depots are in a most unsatisfactory
state, because they are made up of recruits assembled to-
gether without amalgamation. (Hear.) A speech was
lately made by a noble and gallant lord in another place on admit Mr • Godley's title to be considered the most success-
this subject, and he recommended that second battalions ful
tcloelonist that had ever left these shores. The right hon.
should be substituted for depote. This is a matter worthy gentleman
wasted. m a
nB
saidßut
ththat a sum of £4,000,000 was going to be
of serious consideration, and I hope it will receive the atten-
ot Mr. Elliot,u e fact was that, according to the statement
tion of the Government. (Hear, hear.) I have to apologise
the amount whowas oughtln on such a point to be well informed,
to the house for the length of the observations I have ren-
upon niliotnry ,000,000, and half of that would be
a y stations, kept up for purely imperial
tured to make, but my excuse is the vast importance of the spent.
objects. (Hear.) It would also be rememberedthat '
in hardly
subject. (Hear, hear.)
a single case would the colonies be endangered
but for the
Mr. ADDERLEY said ha had given notice of Xis inten-
tion . lwhich we had at home •
quaire a
of with our neighbours. When
to call the attention of the house to the question of thetalk a French war utmost • panic prevailed
defences of the colonies, and he now brought forw • there
was
athe
aid that lAustraliaand at the Cape. Why ? Not because the co-
in
anhiect, first, because he could have no other oPPore lonists had any quarrel with the Emperor, but because they
tnnitY; and, secondly, because if it was to be
discussed it
must be discussed new or never. If they were now to vote feared lest in the event of war he should send his ships to
molest their ports in order to annoy the mother country.
15 millions for arm •
y estimates, it was material to consider
whether eetne Again, the Canadians were in no danger themselves of being
. four out of those 15 millions were more or involved in a dispute with the United States—they were
less thrown away They had areportof
a government com-
mittee on this subject, only afraid of a dispute between America and England,
and his object in rising now was to
ask the Government about the isthmus of Panama, or about foreign enlistment.
Whether they intended to act on the
report, and, if not, what they intended So at Ceylon, what the colonists had to fear was lest our
to do on the sub..ject. It was in March, 1859,government of India should produce a ferment in the na
that th gallant general then
at the head of the War- office communicated tive mind which might extend from the mainland • •
to their
of witted to the Colonial-
office and the Treasury his sense own shore. At the Cape the Dutch beers would require
the immense ince . **
once and mischief of the existing system, and he 'went" scarcely any aid against the Kaffirs, were it not for our in-
urged on
them to lay down some principle on which ane terference. They would shoot down the K:Ars like wild
ment should be based, and he laid down as the bawsisarrangQ- animals ; and it was only because we thought that policy
an arrangement a double principle—that th s count ryof such
inhuman, and prevented them from adopting it—because,
ought
is contribute to the defence a the colonies against f moreover, we had allowed two growing republics to be
aggression, but that the colonies should provide f °reign
es-
tablished at the north of the colony—that pthe settlerses-
re-
or their
internal defence themselves • and quired aid from this c)untry. The object of Mr. Godley
, he suggested that in order to draw up a scheme embodying these was to destroy the dependence of the colonies—but what
principles a
committee should be appointed representing the three de- would be the result of such a course ? The first European
partments, the War-office, the Colonial-office, and the Tree- war that broke out they would find that their connexion with
Bury. Such a committee was appointed accordingly. It con- us cost them too dear, and they would throw off their alle-
awed of Mr. Hamilton, well known in the house for many giance at the earliest opportunity. Mr. Godley referred to
years, who represented the Treasury; Mr. Godley, who theti case of America, and the Greek colonies of the olden
represented the Colonial-office—a man of the highest worth h me•
But in the one case a militia was no s
mner formed
y encouraging patriotism and a spirit of self-dependence