The Sun.
London, England, 1856-05-02 00:00:00

-THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENINGri MAY 2, 1856;

Government introduced the Turkish Loan Bill to this hones.
Its preamble, if I can recall the terms aright, declares that
the loan is to be raised for the defence of the territory of the
Sultan. Were you too late in bringing forward that measure ?
'lf se, what is your vindication of your tardiness? You
charge us with being an obstacle to your affording the neces-
sary supplies to the Ottoman Porte. We are no such obstacle;
but, whatever were our intentions, your bill was passed with
promptitude. I ask you, then, what did you do with the loan?
Did you furnish the Sultan with money ; and, above all, did
you remit the funds in time? If not in time, why, then, was
your proposition not made before? (Hear.) But what did
you do? Your ..measure was opposed in this house on grounds
which, on reflection, I still believe to have been sound and
cbnstitutional. (Hear, hear.) Its policy, I think, cannet be
too severely impugned. In any case, it could only be justi-
fied by the extreme urgency of the occasion. There are
moments, I admit, when, even the constitution must be
wrested to save an empire ; and if the noble lord, had by his
sudden, crude, and unprecedented project, rescued the
Asiatic dominions of the Sultan, he would have found that
vindication which energy, and especially successful energy,
has a right to obtain. (Cheers.). But not a piastre of your
loan went to the relief of Kars. The justification of the Go-
vernment is, that it was too late—that is the excuse given by
one of their own members. Of its truth, however, lam not
quite so sure. The first instalment of the loan was paid in
the month of August ; and the wonderful victory of General
Williams at Kars was gained at the end of September, But
I will not insist that the money mist not have been sent
too late. I won't be so severe as to deprive the Government
of the immense vantage groun 1 afforded them by such a plea 1
—(a laugh)—although I may doubt its perfect accuracy. Yet,
in either case, I ask what became of the money ? Have hon.
gentlemen looked at the return for which I moved on the day
that Parliament met ? At that date those millions, raised by
appeals which, if sincere—as I don't for an instant doubt—
could
only be justified by the Minister's want of information
and care, were absolutely lying idle in the Bank of England,
not one-third of the sum having been transmitted to Turkey.
(Cheers.) I don't for a moment pretend that the Turkish
loan was necessary to have saved Kars. We all k !row the
amount necessary to have done that. The sum that you raise
as a testimonial to a successful railway speculator, the sum
that every hour of our lives we are called upon to contribute
for some meritorious but obscure instance of excellent con-
duct, would have saved Kars. (Hear) Why, sir, the Cabi-
net might have themselves subscribed the money.. (Cheers
and laughter.) The Government of Lord Aberdeen was
changed because the war in Asia must be conducted with
vigour ; to achieve that object the noble lord (Palmerston)
stepper? into power, I ask him, how has he conducted that war
with vigour ? Did he send men or money to Gen. Williams ?
I have, I think, disposed of the unworthy and ignominious
plea that you were too much occupied with the siege of Sebas-
topol to be able to defend Kar i. If you bad-been attacked in
your Indian empire, at the Cape of Good Hope, or in any of
your other possessions, you would, of course, have; defended
yourselves. But was this a British interest—did it less con-
cern British honour? (Hear.) Of all the arguments used in
this debate the one nsost discouraging and depressing to the
heart of the nation is th,t which says you were unable, with
all the aid of banded Europe. to resist ths foe save at one
point; and that he must be suffered to run riot elsewhere be-
cause your energies were absorbed in oppo ing him at Sebas-
topol. (Cheers.) I am told that the resolution before us
applies strong language to the Ministry. An Administration
of great responsibility having been displaced in time of war
because it failed. to wage the conflict with adequate vigour, a
new. Ministry is constructed for the special vigour, a now
Ministry is constructed for the special object of correcting the
omissious.of theirp redecessors. Yet, when a heavy disaster
occurs on the very theatre of the struggle which they were
chiefly bound to prevent, because, under such circumstances,
I ask whether they sent men or money, and find that they
did neither, I am to be told that I am supporting a resolu-
tion couched in strong language, since it accuses such states-
men of want of foresight and energy. (Cheers.) Where is
the display of those qualities proved ? lam not addressing
the right hoc. gentleman the member for Carlisle, because,
although he is about to support old comrades, has, in a
most crushing and effective speech, demonstrated that they
have exhibited neither energy nor foresisht. (Laughter.) I
am addressing the Government—the modern Chatham,
the War Minister par excellence—and I ask him in all
humility, where in this period of the new Adminis-
tration is foresight to be detected and energy dis-
covered ? (Loud cheers.) On thb sth of March General
Williams sent to the Government of England an account of
the 'force necessary to secure not only ,his safety, but his
triumph. His deMand for aid was moderate, and might easily
have been met; but how was it treated? The facts are in
the recollection of the house, and I have no wish to pervert
them, Why, sir, communication was bandied from public
office to public o#ice, and tossed from one Under-Secretary
to another. The two Uoder-Secretaries corresponded with
each other from either side of Downing-street like two wooden
puppets pulled by stings. (A laugh,) The principle of
existence was not necessary to such beings. (Laughter.) TO
accomplish such results vital power was not necessary. The
dnineuia vagula Mandula—that evaneseent thing —animated
not those mechanical and frigid forms. (Laughter.) I , ought
to have been one of the grounds of censure of the Government

that they should, with fatal accuracy, have published this
correspondence—that they should Lave revealed to Sa:dinia,

to which this country oluilit to be a model, that this is the
mode in which our public business is conducted that they

should have damped the rising energies of the Turks by
showing that the great nation which has saved theta conducts
its affairs in such a manner. Well, the Under-Secretaries

communicated from either side of Downing-street, at inter-
vals of about a fortnight, the principal Secretaries animating
them with instructions quite worthy of the occasion. The

demand of General Williams was tossed back to Constauti-

nople ; at Constantinople it was tossed back by our Ambassa-

dor to tho Divan, and the Turks were asked to do that which
British gold and British valour ought to have accomplished. I

. _
them this question, a very simple one :--Was that energy
,ers and laughter.) Is there a man in this house who will

that was energy? Will even the First Minister of
Crown rise iu his place and say that it was energy

(Renewed cheers.)

Well, on the 3d of August, the

War Minister of this country, which was then engaged in
one of the greatest struggles in which we have ever em-
barked, was in his place in Parliament called —I will not

say to aceouit, but to deep and serious reflection, by one
who will be admitted, even by those who differ from him on

general political question; to be a ripe and practised states-
man, and one eminently qualified to speak upon such a sub-
ject —thee Earl of Elleuborough. In the month of August

Lord Ellenborough, in his p-laeo in Parliament, called the

attention of her Majesty's Government to the state of affairs

AI Asia, and asked for information with reference to our

pelicy. The War Minister of Eng'and then assured Parliament
that in the opinion of her Majesty's Ministers the power of

the Porte was sufficient to maintain its ~nthority and domi-
nions in Asia. Was that foresight ? (Cheers and
,laughter.)
If, in Om first instance, there wa, ; a want of energy, was there
not subsequently a want of foresight ? A new Ministry was
formed upon the principle of conducting the war in Asia,

and from the period of their formation -to the fall of Kars
there was an interval of nine months. We find that at last

the Porte, wearied with the energy and foresight of the Bri-
tish aoverninent—(a langh)—in its desperation rallied its

. ... . .
resources ; it made a final effort, and it offered a plan of ac-
tion for the approbation of the British Ministers. That pro-
ject of the Porte, after due deliberation, and after many
councils, was described by her Majes, y's Government as an
insane plau - (cheers)—but I find that a month afterwards the

same project was adopted by her Majesty's Government.
(Renewed cheers.) Well, is that energy and foresight com-
bined ? (Cheers and laughter.) We have had instances of
_ .

vigouree If rggeye
itutais:ni dtehdrf,eohargentsditg foresight; we
into
fall
el
loafyi; o;Kwawrfisen d the finer qualities
is have
complete,prescience
h and I
We have been told. that we are not justifiedb. inc ei.)
1
bring-
ing forward this question, Wh whatt bsu jut, for weeks,
andmore Ii n
dmuasytr i
osuasy fo r m otniitihs
aotnelyntiroensu? result Upon what subject hmasoretheorcecuhpeieedh
publicllf
t he
misrepresentationsy and greater perplexity ?
e this debate had been to show
the true light in which question is viewed by this
house and by the country it would be an important discus-
sion, as it is one necessary to the honour and usefulness of
the House of Commons. We have, however, been told by the
right. hon. hart. wholast add
night by the. noble lord Fessed the house, and the other
the debate, that in Opposite,another place
when he tried to suppress
place they have shrink from the
I diSeussion of this question, can assure the noble I,,rd and 1
his colleagues that they are very
much mieaken. There has
been no disposition 'n-th
1 e other House of Parliament to shrink
from the discussion, and the course taken in that house by a
noble friend of mine was one which
noble friend (Lord MalmesburY)plhhe could not avoid. My
elieve, fully and entirely
approves of the sentiments expressed
hon. and loomed friend the member for Enniskillen (Mr.
t in the resolution of my
Whiteside), but that noble lord thought
proper to include in
his motion a declaration of opinion
consider the effect of this question
that it was expedient to
peace. When my noble friend's hejie upon the conditions of
stated by a member of her Majesty's notice
was given, it was
Government that the
treaty of peace would be brought before the house on Monday,
and, after what I cannot but think that the injudicious intro-
duction into his motion of the declaration
it was of course totally impossible for my I have mentioned,
noble friend to pur-
sue the course he had originally intended
to follow. I do not
think, however, that my noble friend
w
for the opinion of the other House of Parliamentill
shrink from calling
'subject. I have now touched upon what I upon this
conceive to be the.
principal points for the eonsideratiou of the house, and it only
of
remains for me to refer to the naturemy hon. and learned
friend's motion, to which I shall give my support; and which
I trust the house will not reject witholitdu
think the terms of that motion aro perfectly justified, not
merely by the arguments which have been submitted to the
house, but by the admissions which have
been
made by her
Majesty's Ministers themselves, and bythe
unanswerable
arguments of the right hon. member for Carlise,
l (Cheers and
laughter) This motion has been brought forward
honourable' and. learned friend the member for Enniskillen
by my
niskillen at
the desire, and with the concurrence, of all thosei who have
the honour of acting with him in public life. t
said that my hon. friend precipitately forced this s has been
sub
the consideration of the house. It is not the habit
ject upon
hon. friend to force any subject upon the consideration of
my
the
house.- -He is, in my opinion, peculiarlY fitted to bring
for-
of
ward this question from the attention he has devoted
subject, and from his intimate acquaintance and constanttothe
tercourse with that gallant officer who was so rudely
rejected
--or rather ejected—from the office whichhe held by the pre.
sent Minister for War. The hon, and learned
au
brought forward his motion in a manlier which entirelygeu-tle jmns
tilled the expectations of his friends, and I cordiallythank
him for that great intellectual effort, which fully sustained
the
amendments
the reputation of this house. (Cheers,) Two
have been proposed to the motion of my bon. friend —one
an hon. and. learned member opposite (Mr. J. Phillimoreue by
e),
and the other by my hon. friend the member for
(Mr. K. Seyraer).
.1 shall support the resolution o my hon,
and learned friend (Mr. Whiteside), the introduction of which
to this house, so far as my humble influence is concernd
Ihave already sanctioned. I wish it, however, to be uncle I
r.
stood that I have uo desire —so far as the forms of the house
are concerned —to stand in the way of the amendment pro-
posed by the lion, member for Dorsetshire. I approve of the
motion of the hon. and learned member for Enniskillen. I
have vindicated it, and I am prepared to give my vote in its
favour. I know very well the objections that are brought
against motions which it is probable may not be carried in
this house, In my opinion those objections are founded
Commons, fallacy. and I think that the House of en-
tirely on a
or rather the Opposition, commit a great mistake if the
limit the occasions upon which they ask for the opinion of
this house to those cases only in which, as the President of
, the Board of Control says, they may upset a Cabinet. (Hear.)
Far from that, I think, upon every occasion of importance,
where there are subjects which arrest public attention, and
especially; subjects upon which the public mind is perplexed,
it is the duty of the Opposition to assert the policy which
they approve, and to vindicate the principles which keep them
together ; and to comment upon and denounce the conduct
of the 'Minister, if they think that that conduct is injurious to
the interests and the honour of the country. (Cheers.) If the
opposition relinquish that duty,—if the country have reason
to believe that they shrink from performieg that office, if they
take refuge in a scandalous silence because they think they
may not put the Ministry in a minority, I can tell them that
they will, in the long run, fall in public estimation—(hear)-_
and that this house, too, will, equally in the long run,-
fall in public estimation ; and that no greater blow to the pH_
vileges and reputation of Parliament and -to the influence of
the HouSe of Commons can be levelled than.that it should be-
come a question whether or no the Opposition is influenced

only by selfish and sordid sentiments of official success and
Parliamentary triumph. (Cheers.) The noble lord opposite
may not be of ray opin!.on. (Hear.) • I fear the noble lord is
not of my opinion. (Hear) Nothing but sentiments contrary
to mine—nothing but early conduct in public life, utterly op.
posed to that which I have attempted to • deseribe,. would
have induced the noble lord, with indecent exultation the
other night, when he knew, and ought to have known, that
the question had only been partially discusied, and had not
even been decently discussed from his own benches—nothing
but feelings contrary to mine could have induced the nobe
lord to express himself in such a manner as he did the othet
night when a temporary majority was obtained by him
(He ir, hear ) I deeply fear that the noble lord is influ-
enced by very different feelings to mine on this sullied:
(`‘ Oh, oh !") Well, I will.prove to you. These happy in-
terruptions, when one is sometimes nearly wearied with. a:
lengthened discussion, are what one is not ungrateful for.
(Laughter.) I remember a crisis in this country scarcely
of less importance than the one from which we are now
emerging. I remember.whea.this country was on the eve
of a war with a country with which, of all others, I should
most deprecate hostilities; not only from considerations of.
material interests, but from moral considerations—l mean the
United States of America. I remember when this Co Attry
was on the eve of a war with th -)t great Power. Sir Robert
Peel was then Prime Minister of England ; ho appointed a ne-
gotiator for that great emergency,bne admirably qualified for
the difficult but noble task which he had to accomplish.. With
a wisdom which can never be too much admired and appreci-
ated Lord Ashburton prevented a war—(cheers) —and he laid
the foundation of what I trust will be an enduring peace, evep
though the noble lord is Prime Minister of England. (Cheers
and laughter.) Well, sir, when Lord Ashburton returned with
an admirable treaty he was received with the gratitude of the
country, and with the appreciation of all men who duly valued
the importance of his labours. (Cheers.) But there arose in
this country, immediately on his arrival, an organised attack
upon what was called the Ashburton capitulation— au attack
conducted with ample knowledge, prosecuted with unceasing
vigour, and constantly impressing upon the public opinion of
England that our interests had been betrayal and (Mr honour
had been disgraced. Well, sir, in due time, when the sane
feeling with regard to the Ashburton treaty had been created
as has now been created iu regard to the capitulation of Kars,
and when Lord Ashburton was selected to 'be the scapegoat
then, as Lord Stratford de Redeliffe was'selected in the present
instance, due notice was given to. the Parliament of. England
that this importantAuestion, involving, as a perplexed and
frightened public -belieVed, the deepest interests of the nation,.
and oae which concerned matters of charge against the Prime
Minister f England scarcely short of t reason, would be brought
under the consideration of Parliament by one most competent
to discharge that duty. It was brought forward by one who sat
on this side of the house and opposite this box; and he had
that which neither my hon..aaddearaed friend nor myself can
pretend to, accurate official experience, derived from long years
of pa-session of office, powers of great eloquence, and unri-
valled knowledge of the subject. The noble lord recollects
the time when he introduced the question of the Ashburton
capitulation to the attention of the House of Commons. The
node lord and his friends now sneer at long speeches when
the conduct of the Ministry is impugned. But the noble lord
on that occasion made a very loug speech, though I don't
believe it was so long as the speech of my hon. and learned
friend : it certainly Was not so entertaining; that, however,
was not the fault of the noble lord, but of his subject. (Cheers
and laughter.) Never were such charges brought against a
Minister as were male on that occ .sien when the assembled
Parliament hung on the accents of the noble lord, a most ex-
petienc.d Minister, with a knowledge unrivalled in diplo-
matic subjects, and who is now Prime Minister of England.
They were charg .s little short of treason urged by the noble
lord, master of speech as he is, in a speech of hours. But
the noble lord is not a rash leader of a party. He can make
a long speech, and can make charges. which no man has a
right to mare who is not prepared to take the opinion of
Parliament upon them. (Hear, hear.) Toe noble lord; did
all this. The charges were hi-ought forward with all the
pomp and solemnity of an indietnient; the debate was ad-
journed, and ho concluded his elaborate and leugtheued ha-
rangue, not by a raolstion, and in strong language, but by a
motion for papers. (i.:heers and laughter.) Now I wish to
contrast, for the instruction of the house, the e Ise of my hon.
and learned friend and the case of the noble lord. I wish

those who think it rash to speak in stroug language—l wish
t ,ose who think it precipitate to express in a resolution that
which they dare not say in a speech--I wish them to contrast
the conduct my rash and impetuous friend—(cheers)—
with the wary and circumspect conduct of the noble lord.
(Renewed cheers.) I am certain that the noble lord who
accuses statesmen of treason, and ends by moving for papers,
must have conducte 1 his business much more warily than lie
supposes my hon. and learned to be .doing when he with so
much complacency prophesied what is to be our doom this
evening. (Hear.) Sir, we may be defeated, but until the
.numbers are really known it is not necessary for me even to
believe in that, (Cheers and laughter.) But at all events this
unexampled speech of my hon. and lea'rned friend will be fel-.
lowed by an explicit motion, and I am sure my hon. and
learned friend will have the support of a large and powerful
party, while the noble lord may possibly be supported by those,
who have made speeches against him. (Cheers and laughter.).
That will be to reverse the position of my hon. and learned
friend. But what was the position of the wary master of
tactics on the occasion of which I have spoken I Why, on the
second night of the debate the noble lord, strong with his blue-
books, and with his documents admirably arranged and tied
up, this great statesni In, who would not enter upon any
imprudent course, had the satisfaction of finding the house
counted out. (" Hear," and laughter.) Therefore I think
the noble lord, who took such an exulting tone the other night,
and who seemed to suppose that ours is to be the minority and
his the nAjority, ought to remember that, whatever our fate
may b , it will be at least superior to that of the noble lord
when in a similar position. (Hear.) The right bon hart, the
member for Carlisle ha, said he could have wished that a pro
posal had been made to pass a vote of thanks to General Wil-
liams, but that there existed no precedent for such a course
I too, sir, wish that this house had proposed a vete of thanks
to General Williams. I Loud cheering) I wish this house had
proposed a vote of thanks to Geu. Williams in the sense of ex-
pressing their indigdation at the manner in which he has bele
supported. (Cheers.) That was an idea which had occurred
to others besides the right hon. baronet. (Hear.) But we,
too, were stopped by routine. 'Mere was no precedent. I
think it would have been wise if we had made a precedent—
(hear)—and had proposed a vote of thanks to a roan who was
the distinguished object of an admiring Senate, and had ex-
pressed• our sympathy with one who isan exile and a prisoner.
(Cheers.) I think it is well, sometimes, that NV4 should slow
our sense of the conduct of men who, though not successful,
are at least triumphant There are heroes in adversity, and there
are prisoners,not to say it profanely, who have proved even
more than conqueror by their leading captivity itself captive.
Wo have not been able to express those feelings, but at
least we have done this—we have not taken refuge in a shame-
ful silence ; we have allowed to the people of this Country au
opportunity of having their opinions and feelings repre*uted
in this, their owe house ; and, whatever may be the fate of
this division, we have had the satisfaction of expressing our
sympathy with heroic merit, and with national honour. (The
right hon. genteman resumed his seat amid loud cheering.)

Lord J. RUSSELL—Though this debate has continued to 1
this late hour on the third night, I hope the house will in- 1
dulge me by listening to a few observations which I wish to
address to them. I admired, in common with. others, the
ability and the eloquence of the lion. and learned gentleman
who introduced this motion, but. I own it did appear to me
that admitting that censure may at any time be proposed,
he chose with singular infelicity the occasion to propose it.
If the war had gone on it would have been competent for the
hoe. and learned gentleman to say that Turkey would suffer
by the loss of Kars ; but the answer to any such language is,
that the war is coueuded, and that Kars will in a few weeks
be again bearing the flag of Turkey. Or, it might be said, in
another view, that the loss of Kars had been injurious to the
negotiations, and that the terms of peace bore testimony to
the loss we sustained when Kars surrendered. Bat the hon.
and learned gentleman, instead of following the example
which has beim given in the other House of Parliament, did
not wait for the introduction of the treaty, but on the very
day that the treaty of peace was laid before the house, he in-
troduced this motion. Well, then, I must say upon the mo-
tion itself that the house will be disposed to view the war as
a whole—that they whi consider its various parts, and whe-
ther, having undertaken to defend Turkey for the present,
and to obtain some security for her for the future, those ob-
jects have not both been fully attained. With regard to the ag-
gression of Russia upon Turkey, it was evident that aggression
might be made either on her European provinces or by means
of a fleet from the Crimea, or on the eastern frontier.
With regard to the European provinces, the heroic defence of
Silistria, the gallant fights on the Danube, and, lastly, the
occupation by Austria and the evacuation by Russia of the
Principalities, secured Turkey on that side. But the next
question was the means which Russia possessed in the Crimea.
Lord Aberdeen's Government, after deliberaely considering
in what manner the means of warfare on the part of Rus.ia
might best be crippled, and the war brought speedily to ater-
mivation, decided that the mode of attaining those objects
was to send an expedition to the Crimea. The sight hon.
gentleman who has just spoken says he expressed his fear at
the time of any such expedition. Well, no doubt that expe-
dition was of a nature to make it hazardous. For a time it
did not succeed. The bombardment of the 17th October
failed, the winter passed in privation and misery, the bom-
bardment of April likewise failed, the assault made on the
18th of June was unsuccessful, Well, then, I ask the house,
such being the state of your expedition to the Crimea, under-
taken with the best troops of Great Britain and France, was
it not the duty of the Government to endeavour by all means
to procure the success of that expedition?--(hear, hear)—to
encounter any risk, to press any object, rather than to allow
that expedition to fail? The hon. and learned gentleman
Who introduced this motion blamed the Government of her
Majesty, and blamed the Emperor of the French for requir
iug that, before any portion of the army was despatched
from Balaklava and Eupatoria, the opinion of the generals
should. be taken: I think that the allied Governments acted
wisely in that respect— I think that they acted with foresight
and with energy. What would have been the case had the
assault • in every way failed, owing to the wens of troops at
Balaklava? That was-the obvious reason, that was the pre-
vailing motive why an expedition was not sent earlier in
order to cover Kars. I will not at this time enter into
the military question, which has been most ably argued
to night, as to whether the troops should have been sent
in one direction, or in another to the relief of Kars. The
President of the Board of Control says that the Government
took military opinions before they decided that question, and
therefore I think that disposes of a charge which might
otherwise have seemed probable, that the Turkish authorities
having decided in favour of an operation, they peremptorily
• rejected it, and preferred another. We come then to the
question whether taking iSebastopol and attempting to
de-
stroy
what they have. destroyed;
the whole fleet of Russia,
which had been so long a menace to Turkey, whether consis-
tently with that object they could obtain men and money for
the purpose of sending to Asia. I heard these accusations of
the right hon. gentleman, and of those who act with him,
with a deal of astonishment, because I could not help think-
ing that our small army having exhausted its several batta-
lions in furnishing troops to hold the lines of Sebastopol, it
occurred to the Government of Lord Aberdeen to endeavour
to raise a force of Swiss, and Germans, and Italians ; they
thought that if 20,000 0r.30,000 of these troops could have
been collected at Constantinople who were not urgently
wanted in the Crimea, there would then have been the means
of sending the Turkish army to Erzeroum or to Kars, But
what was the discouragement thrown on that plan—(hear)
—what were the terms of contumely which induced the
spit ited Germans for soma months to refuse to enlist in any
such fordo, and thereby prevented that additional force being
given to Turkey, and by whom was that discouragement
made, and those terms of contumely used 1 By Lord Derby and
Lord Ellenborough in the other House of Pardament, and the
right hon. gentleman and his friends in this house. Well,
then, it was desirable no doubt to send money to Turkey to
enable Turkey to continue the war. A loan was obtained by
her own credit in the first year of the war. In the second
year, the whole of that money being exhausted, Turkey,
finding it exceedingly difficult to support and pay her army,
_ asked the assistance of the allies to support her credit. For
my own part, I may have thought it would have been bet-
ter to have made a eubsidy to Turkey ; but Government
were quite content to take other means to give assistance
But when that was proposed in this house, and my noble
friend the First Lord of the Treasury, going far beyond the

usual language of ministers, implored this house to grant a
guarantee because he said Turkey might fall to pieces if that
assistance were not given, this house by almost a majority
endeavoured-to defeat that object. And who were the fore-
most in endeavouring to - refuse that assistance ? Why the
eight hon, gentleman and his friends: - I trust that whatever
may be at times the injustice of public opinion, and I' think I
am one of those who at timesheve suffered from that injustice
—that in this couutry, and in every country ,vhere we can
have any influence, there will be a free current of public
epinion, and the representative institutions may gain fresh
strength and excite increased admiration from the contests in
which we have lately been engaged. - •
Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. gentleman has
taunted me with the course which I thought it my duty to
pursue on Tuesday last., lie has endeavoured to represent
that it was my object to stifle discussion. Sir, I entirely
deny that representation. Undoubtedly f thought that at
the time at which the adjournment was moved there still
remained time to carry the d scussiou to an end, and that it
,was more fitting to go on with it than to adjourn it till this
evening. I certainly thought, and still think, that the divi-
sion which toot place on that occasion was not simply a divi-
sion on the question of whether the debate should bo adjourned,
but that it deAared in a gieat degree the opinion which had
.been formed by the members present as tb the question which
is now under discussion, and I thiuk that the state in which
we are at present is a state that has often boon proposed for
Parliament—dividing first and debating afterwards. The
speech of the-hon. and learned gentleman who made this
motion was indeed a wonderful speech. (Hear, hear.) It
was a
.speech of great ability, as all speeches made by that
hon, and learned gentleman must nseesearily be, (Hear.)
It was a speech, however, which those who saw it, I
s)y, not heard it, but those who saw it, must admit to be a
speech which exhibited as much bodily activity as mental
tcumen. It must have been gratifying to the friends of the
hon. and. learned gentleman to see him continue for four
hours and a half to exert so much power; but however cre-
ditable the speech was to the body auckyniud of the hon. and
learned'getlran, it did little credit to the judgment with
which it was, ceived. The hon, and learned gentleman be-
gan with a '
ii
rtation upon the interest of England as con-
nected with rkey, with Affghanistan and with India, and
12
founded the tument by which he proceeded to eondemn the
conduct of the Wivernment upon the assertion that by net at-
tempting operations in A sia we were neglecting the great
interests of England in India. Why, if anything could be
imagined more calculated to encourage those suspicions which
the enemies of England endeavoured to engender as to the ob-
ject of Euglaud in the war, such representations were calcu-
lated to effect that purpose. The Russians endeavoured to
instil into the minds of our allies that we were dragging them
into the war for objects of our own ; that it was not the
maintenance of the power of Turkey that we so much wanted,
as that we wanted to defend our Indian territories. Cer-
tainly we engaged in that war not for the purpose of defending
India. If England should be attacked we are capable of de-
fending ourselves. We do not want the alliance of any Power
for the purpose of defence. England is able to defend her-
self, when attacked, in any part of the world. (Cheers) We
and our allies, when we commenced the war, disclaimed
any selfish interest. We bad European objects as important
to our allies as ourselves the Maiutexance of the
Turkish empire and the balauce of power in Europe.
The speech, therefore, of the bon. and learned gentleman
was calculated to give countenance to an opinion utterly
inconsistent with the fundamental principle of the war.
(Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman's address was certainly
productive of one very singular and remarkable, result. A
noble I ieud of his in the other house of Parliament, who
had given notice of a motion of the same purport, whether
actuated by the effect of that speech, or from whatever cause

but certainly by a most remarkable coincidence, the very
next evening abandoned his design. (" Hear, hear," 'and a
laugh.) One portion of the hon. gentleman's speech then
was devoted to an attempt to induce this house and the
public to believe that the main object of the war was to de-
fend India agains', the attacks of Russia—an utter misrepre-
sentation of the policy of the war (Cheers.) Another and
a great portion of it was devoted to the vituperation of Lord
Stratford. Indeed, I may say the speech was a singular in-
stance of vituperation, right and left. (clear.) It reminded
one in•some degree of the great explosion which took place
in the French lines--up went rockets, shells, and c irtridges
in every direction, killing and wounding friends all around,
but none going far enough to reach an enemy. (Cheers and
laughter.) The hon. gentleman devoted an hour and a half
to the unmitigated condemnation of Lord Stratford ; hut re-
membering, perhaps, admonitions received in a morning
meeting—(cheers)—he terminated his speech with praises of
the nob e lord whom he had before represented as bein,gto-
tally unworthy to maintain the situation he held. (Loud
cheers.) In fact, his main charge against her Majesty's Go-
vernment was for continuing Lord Stratford in his office of
Ambassalir at Constantinople after he had neglected to an-
swer the letters of General Williams; and it was for that he
held that we were deserving of the censure of Parliament.
But the hon. gentleman was immediately answered by his
noble friend who sits near him, and who said that the fall of
Kars was not accelerated one moment by the omission of
Lord Stratford to answer the letters of General Williams.
And truly did he say that because the omission occurred in
i 1354, and Kars did not fall till November, 1855. (Cheers.)
,But I am perfectly ready to take my share of any respon-
sibility that may devolve upon those who did not think it
right to recall Lord Stratford. (Hoar, hear.) No doubt
we regret that from pressure of business Lord Stratford
emitted those letters, and to give General Williams that
comfort and encouragement whiCh he would naturally

derive from letters received from the Ambassador at Co&
stantinople But Lord Stratford did at Constantinople all
that Gen. Williams urged him to do. (Hear.) No one who
reads these papers can fail to arrive at the conclusion that
Lord Stratford did everything that it was in the power of an
ambassador to do in order to obtain for Gen. Williams the
supplies and reinforcements he wanted. ( leers.) But when
the hon. gentleman treats Lord Stratford so lightly, I am
botind to say that of all men he was the fittest for the post
lie occupied. (El ear.) He was beyond all men acquainted
with the details of circumstances connected with Turkey, and
he had established au influence over the Turkish Government
which was of the utmost importance. Indeed auy govern-
ment that should have recalled Lord Stratford at that mo-
ment simply because he hat omitted to answer certain letters
might hue boasted of their energy, but they cauld not be
praised fur their foresight. (Cheers.) Sir, it is due to Lord
Strat,ford to mention, in connection with that great act which
has been recently obtained from Turkey, and which we may
call the Magna Charta of the Christian population of the
Ottoman empire, that when, in 1846, upon the termination
of Sir R. Peel's administration I became Secretary of State
for Foreign Affairs, Lord Stratford was on leave in this coun-
try. At that time I thought it my duty to urge that he
would continue to 'old his office and to return to Constaati-
nople. Lord Stratford did not belong to our party. He was
a friend of Lord Derby; and it was Lard Derby who gave
him the title which he wears witk se much honour to himself.
(Hear.) Lord Stratford, then Sir Stratford Canning, said he
would agree to do what I asked him upon one condition.
And what was that condition ? Why, that he should be sup-
ported, nay, urged by the Government at home to
those exertions which had been the great object of all his
energies during the time he had been in Turkey, namely, the ob.
taming of that equality between Christians and Malienimedaus
which has now crowned his labours. (Cheers.) It was that
honourable ambition which induced Lord Stratford to con-
tinue s long in a situation which under other circumstances
he might have preferred to. relinquish ; and yet it was the
moment when he wore upon his brie* that double coronet
one granted to him by his Sovereign, and the other the result
of his own honourable labours—that he was selected by a
friend of Lord Derby to be the object of his vituperation.
(Cheers.) But the mistake of the hon. and learned gentleman
was soon discovered. Those who have followed him have al-
lowed Lord Stratford's conduct to pass without doing it addi-
tional injustice ' • and they have turned their batteries more
directly against her Majesty's Government. A great attack
has been made upon us because we did not send Gen. Wil-
liams reinforcements of men and supplies of money. In the
first place, be it observed, it is a total misrepresentation of
the right hon. gentleman opposite to say that we undertook
to carry on war in Asia. We never hinted that we intended
to carry on war in Asia. The Government of Lord Aberdeen
had decided, and decidedly wisely, that in a war with Russia
for the defence of Turkey, the .point to be struck at was Se-
bastopol, that that centre of the Russian power was aggressive
against Turkey —and that until you strck a blow at the heart,
all other attempts would be futile. (Cheers.) It was on that
account tiat the Government of Lord Aberdeen declined to
send an army into Bessarabia or. the Principalities ; for if
there is one principle of war far more evident than another, it
is that when you have a groat object to accomplish, you must
concentrate all your power upon that object, and not to allow
yourself to be tempted away from it by any collateral opera-
tions. The great object of the allies was to capture Sebasto-
pol, and to get possession of the Russian fleet. (Hear.) The
right hon, gentleman says, " What a disgrace to Euglandancl.
France that they should not be able to have one army in the
Crimea and another in Asia, when 'Russia was able not only
to maintain an army in the Crimea but to make a diversion
in Asia." But Russia was defending herself at home. She
had all her resources at hand, and she had an army, be it
of 800,000 or 1,000,1100 men, 'ready prepared for the
contest. On the other hand, England and France had to
scud troops by sea to a great distance, and at the end of a,,
long line of communication. It was therefore no disgrace to
England and France that they were not able to employ as
many forces in that quarter as Russia. No doubt the fall of
Kars was an event greatly to be lamented—not for the mere
fall of the position; for Kars his no great fortifications.
Kars is not a town surrounded by Walls or natural defences ;
but Kars is an important geographical position, which it is
desirable that Russia should not occupy. Why wo lamented
the fall of Kars was, that that gallant hero and his brave
associates, who inspired such cotirage in the 10,000 Turks
who held the town, that they andsthoso brave Turks should
have become prisoners through faniine to men who could not
conquer them in arms. (Loud cheers.) But we linew well
that we must succeed or fall ; and' if we;succeeded, whatever
Russia might have taken from the' Turks she must have eva-
cuated before she could obtain a peace. We had taken up
the war to maintain the integrity of the Turkish empire;
and never would we have sheathed tho sword so long as au
inch of Turkish territory remained in the hands of Russia.
(Loud cheers.) Therefore all tilt:Go arguments which aro
founded upon the danger to Turkey which might arise from
the loss of Kars are based upon a vale and groundless assump-
tion—an assumption which implies that we should have been
content to make peace upon terms inconsistent with the very
principle upon which the war Was commenced. (Hear,
hear.) No doubt, when Gen. Williams first went in the ca-
pacity of commissioner to Kars, ho was not vested with those
powers which were necessary to enable him to perform effi-
ciently the duties which devolved upon him. But every man
that knows anything of Turkey must be aware of the insur-
mountable difficulty there is in getting military command for
a European, more especially in Asia, because military com-
mand there gives a person control over pachas and the
governors of provinces. (Hear, .hear.) What caused the
fall of Kars ? It was the want of provisions and of a relieving
force. Supplies werOmissing in consequence of the miscon-
duct of the Paella of Erzereum. It was noi. want of money,
Money had,been supplied him to purchase provisions, and he
had bought them, but he had neglected to pay the carriers
to convey them to Kars ; and they had left them about half
way between the two places. The result was that when the
Russians invested Kars with a superior force of cavalry, they
pushed on to where the supplies were lying, seized and de-
stroyed them. Had those supplies been properly sent to Kars
by the Governor of Erzeroum they would probably havebeen
sufficient to enable the garrison to hold out. Additional
garrison were not required, for the garrison
nitself to the last more than a match for its foes.
had
But
troopsws foaotr the
was required was a relieving force, to open a coin.
munication with Kars. The lion. and learned gentleman;
finding the case not very easy to handle, chooses, with that
dexterity which belongs to his profession—to represent that
as a disgraceful act of the Government which was, in truth,
most deserving of approbation. He dwelt upon 'that de-
spatch of Lord Clarendon of the 13th of July. in which the
noble earl on behalf of his Governinent expresses disappro-
bation of the operation foithe relief of Kars by Yenikalo and
Kutais. I am not discussiug this question as a military man,
but the lion. gentleman is likewise not a military man, and
therefore my opinion is as good as his. But I will maintain
against all comers that the arguments in that despatch are

perfectly conclusive that the plan proposed by the Turkish
Government was radically defective. The plan they pro-
posed was to land at Redout-Kaleh, and then to march against
the rear of the Russians, for the purpose of drawing them
away from Kars. Now, in the first place, the sea passage
was longer, and a greater quantity of transports would be
necessary. Then the country in which the Turkish troops
would land was Christian, and they were Mahommedan. The
population would thus be hostile to them. Besides, as the
operation was only for a diversion, and not a permanent con-
quest, they would know that if they joined the invaders they
must soon expect to feel the resentment of the Russian Go-
vernment. (Hear, hear.) The country moreover was in-
tersected with rivers, and was difficult to be traArsed by
an army; it was one likewise in which animals for trans-
port were scarce. Finally, the route was long, and the army
proposed to bo sent, as an hon. gentleman had observed, was
a collection of odds and ends, without the regularity and com-
bined discipline of the Russian troops. If it had gone, it
would probably have advanced a certain distance from the
sea, the Russians would have attacked and defeated it, and
would then have resumed the investment of Kars freed from
all fears of being again interrupted. The plan of her Majesty's
Government was that the troops should be sent by Trezibond,
from which 10,090 men might have marched, according to
Mr. Brandt, to Erzerourn in 10 days. The road was even
practicable for artillery, for all the artillery at Erzeroum and
Kars bad gone by that route ; but there were guns enough,
so that was not material. Tho country was Mahornmedan ;
there were in it plenty of animals for transport ; and it wwild
even have been easy to raise a force of irregular horse, light
cavalry being the arm which General Williams most required.
Besides, if the movement for the relief of Kars had not suc-
ceeded, it would at least have made Erzeroum safe ; and the
garrison of Kars might have retired to that city. Bat it is
said you recommended a disgraceful course, the abandonment
of Kars. We recommended no such thing. We recom-
mended that which we believed would have saved Kars, but
which at all events would have enabled its garrison to fall
back iu safety upon Erzeroum. (Hear, hear.) The brilliant
imagination of hon. gentlemen suggests to them that if Kars
had remained in the possesdou of Russia Constantinople
might have been taken. But that would have been impos—
sible, unless, indeed, the Russians had an army of Leanders
to swim the Bosphorus. (Laughter and cheers.) Honour-
able gentlemen seem quite to have forgotten the existence
of that famous strait; and that there was a Turkish, a
French, and an English fleet close at hand, if by any strange
accident the enemy had arrived at the short opposite Con-
stAntinople. But it is said, "You proposed this scheme for the
relief of Kars at one time, and then you adopted one exactly
contrary." But we did not adopt any measure. It was
not an operation in which the British or French army
was to take part. It was a propossal made to us by the Turk-
ish Government, and we stated our reasons why we thought
it ought not to. be adopted. But when we were told that the
council of war still held to its former view, it was not for us
to maintain our opinion to the contrary. (Hear.) Then hon.
gentlemen complain that we did not send the contingent as a
part of the relieving force ; but the contingent was not in a
condition to go. That was the opinion of General Vivian, of
Omer Pacha, of General Simpson, and of every man who knew

the state in which the contingent then was. (Hear, hear.)
The right hon. baronet (Sir J. Graham) has drawn a com-
parison between the Turkish Contingent and the Portuguese
troops, whom ho described as the " fighting cocks" of the
Peninsular army ' - and I have no doubt that the Turkish
Contingent would have been tho same. (Hear, hear.) But
my right hon. friend must consider time as well as men.
W hen that Portuguese force obtained the designation which
he mentions, they had been longer in organisation under
British officers than the Turkish Contingent, which at that

- -
time had only just been formed. It has often been said that
in the early part of the Peninsular campaign, the Portuguese
battalion fled at the sight of shells in the air, but at the storm-
ing of San Sebastian, the bodies found most forward in the

assault were those of the Portuguese soldiers, The change
was effected, not merely by better pay and clothing, but was
the result of better leading by British officers, and the greater

confidence which they felt. So it undoubtedly would have

been, with the Turkish Contingent. I have not the least hesi-
tation in saying that, if the war had gone.:on another year, we
should have seen in the ensuing campaign the Turkish Con-
tingent behaving with the same courage as the brave Turks
who had defended Kars, and adding fresh laurels to thoso
Gained by their countrymen on the banks of the Danube.

But at that time it would have been madness to expose the
half-armed and half-clad Contingent to the attack of the
Russl.an forces. That objection applied not only to their
being sent as part of Omer Pacha's relieving army, but
it ' applied also to their being posted at Balaklava, in
exchange for the 12,000 Turks who had been some of the best
troops in Omer Pacha's•army. 'Therefore it was out of the
question to send them either to Redout•Kalch or to Balaklava-
The Government very properly would not consent that the
Turkish Contingent should form any part of those forces. Then
the question was, whether Omer Pacha should be allowed to
take from Balaklava those 12,00'1 Turks, who held an impor-
tant def nisive position on our line. It is said that a e might
have een allowed to take away the force at Eupatoria, and
that we were wrong in not doing so. Who commanded at
Eupatoria? The French General d'Allonville. What right
had we to insist on his relinquishinga part of the force which
he thought necessary I (Hear, hear.) If that position bad
been ours, would we have allo ed the French Government
to dictate to us what the English Government should do and
wlizt amount of forces should be retained there ? (
The main question was whether Omer Pacha f3,ould take
the Turkish forces from Balaklava either to Trebizond or to
Redout-Kaleh. Against that proposition General Pelissier
and General Simpson protested ; they sail they could not
spare a single naau7frozu before Sebastopol. And I must say
I think upon the whole they were right. (Hear, hear.)
Sebastopol was the great object of the whole campaign.
Sebastopof had stood against us for a twelvemonth, and the
great object was to conquer the resistance of Sebastopol.
(Hear, hear.) We were quite sure if Sebastopol was
taken, that we should get back Kars even if it had
fallen. (Hear, he-sr.) But if we had been beaten

before Sebastopol the calamity would have bceu great,
and the object of the campaign would hair() been en-
tirely lost. (Hear, hear.) Therefore I think that no man,
.takitg a review of the question at issue, can for a moment
doubt that the Governments of England and of France were
right in upholding the decision of the generals—that no
troops of any kind should be taken from before Sdirtstopol
until Sebastopol had fallen to the att tek of the allies.
(Hear, hear.) The question, then, seems to 'no to resolve

. ... itself into nothing: , ("Hear, hear," and laughter.) A
censure on the Government is, in fact, a censure for having
douo their best to get possession of Sebastopol, (Hear.) It
is a censure for not having pursued a course which would en-

. --
danger the very objects of the campaign, and by so doing
would defeat tho very objects of the war. (Hear, hear.) I
am quite content to take my stand upon that issue. (Cheers.)
Notwithstanding the deep sy'upathy which every man must
have felt at the surrender of General Williams—the eon-

qucror yielding to the conquered—l am prepared to put it
to any reasonable man in the country to say whether the
Government would not have been very much to blame if
they had done anything which might interfere with the
accomplishment of the great object for which the forces of

the two countries had been for so many monthscontending.
(Hear, hear.) Well, then I think there was neither want
of energy nor foresight it the course pursued. Thera is no
want of energy in the speakers on the other side ; there has

been plenty of energy in this debate. (Laughter.) But
want of foresight I think there is (Cheers.) I perfectly agree
with the proposition laid down, that the duty of an opposi-
tion is to oppose, which no man can for a moment deny.
(Laughter.) It is perfectly true also that if the right hon.
gentleman wants to keep his party together, he ought every
now and then to bring them into action, although he knows
_ _

beforehand that he will be exposed to agreat and disastrous

defeat. (Hear.) If the right hon. gentleman has come-into
action with a perfect conviction that he is going to be de-
feated. there is certainly no want of foresight as to that, but
some little want of judgment. (Cheers.) lam the first to do

usticeto the course which the right bon, gentleman and his.

party have pursued during the war. With thoso exceptions
which have been adverted to,,when Russian blood could not
. .

withstand the temptation, or a little opposition to giving
Turkey money without which she could not move on--(laugh-
ter)—and attempts to prevent our raising additional troops to
assist us in tho first operations of the war —those are trifling
matters. which few joined in. But beyond that I am seri-
ously willing to admit that their course has been most honour-
able to themselves, and in perfect accordance with what was
the general feeling of the country. (Hear.) They felt that
the nation was engaged in a war which the whole nation

thought just and right, and for which the people of the
United Kingdom were prepared to make any sacrifices ; and
they abstained very honourably from any real demonstration
calculated to embarrass or impede the course of the Govern-
ment. (Hear, hear.) That was a course which was in per-
fect unison with public opinion, but which was honourable
to them, and which, looking back to former periods of his-
tory, was always pursued by the gentlemen who sat on that

side of the house. But I think it quite naturd, when the
war is over abroad, that there should be war at home. that
opposition should revive, and resort to its natural function—
that of opposing Government, and trying to turn the Go-
vernment out ; for there is no imputation on an Opposition
for wishing to do that—it is the natural function of an

Opposition: (Laughter.) And when they think they
have the powor of dispossessing the Government, it is
natural that they should from time to time take up subjects
on which they think the people will go with them, for the
purpose of keeping their party together, or keeping them-
selves alive. (Cheers, and laughter.) But I think they
have chosen their time injudiciously. What is the moment
they have chosen for this attack ? And though the right
hon. gentleman professes to deal with it as a mere expression
of abstract opinion, of course when a censure is proposed on
a Government to C,e extent of saying that they have neither
energy nor foresight, I do not know what other quality is to
be left them, for certainly a Government possessing neither
energy nor foresight is not one which the House of Commons
would long like to see in their places. What is the moment
chosen for this purpose ? We have brought to a close a war
which has been carried on with admirable energy—(cries
of " Hear, hear "). a war carried on at a great distance
from these shores, with an army which was originaly
sent out, though in small numbers, with greater expe-
dition, greater rapidity, and better equipped than any
army of the same amount that ever left these shores. (Ho'',
hear.) It is but justice to the Duke of Newcastle to bear
testimony to this. Th at army was in the first instance
ex-
posed to great suffering; but since then, by the persevering
energy of my noble friend at the head of the V
Depart-
ment, who h s earned a title to the gratitude of the
te
countryh
for the successful energy with which he has followed p
campaign, the army now in the Crimea has been brought to
a state of admirable efficiency, health, and order, which
renders it the admiration of all who see it. During that
war, while, on the one hand, the Government showed the
utmost energy,
we have, I think, not been deficient in fore-
sight in regard to the peace
which we have concluded.
Those who will take the trouble to look at the articles of
peace will see that we hive foreseen all the matters upon
which it was Possib' e to frame treaties, and that, as far
as political foresight could go, we have provided against
future danger to the Turkish Empire. (Hear, hear.) I
contend that the Government has, in the prosecution of the
war,
shown groat energy, and that the stipulations of the
peace have proved their foresight. (Cheers.) At that time,
when the country at large is, I have no hesitation in saying,
satisfied both with the results of the war and the peace that
has been concluded, the hon. and learned gentleman steps in
with a vote of censure upon the Government —a vote, I will
undertake to say, not more at variance with the general feel-
ing of the country than the division of this night will show
that it is at variance with the general opinion of the House
of Commons. (Hear, hear.) I think, therefore, that the
gentlemen opposite, whatever may have been the energy
which they have displayed, have shown very little foresight
as to the result of this motion ; and I am satisfied that if they
pursue that duty of opposing which is said to be the proper
function of an opposition with no more judgment than they
have shown with regard to the motion now under considera-
tion, the people of this country will be of opinion that the
longer those gentlemen sit where they do the better will it be
for all who arc interested in the welfare of the country.
(Loud cheers and laughter.) And on that ground I go with
confidence to the division that 'is about to take place.
(Cheers.)
Mr. WHITESIDE, who rose amidst loud cries for a
"division," said that when the noble lord stated they had
nothing to do with the war in Asia, he forgot that the
Bluebook contained several despatches to GeneralWillbons,
informing him that Asia Minor was to be the theatre of the
war in the spring. General Williams had been sent out,
as it now appeared; to learn the misfortune of your ally

-yr -
but not to assist him. (Hear.) The noble lord the member-
for the City of London, who was the means of making Una.
noble lord Primo Minister, speaking on this very subject of
the war in Asia on a former occasion, said, "'The war is
Asia is a very important question, but 'could not get from
Lord Aberdeen that support I hoped for when the subject
was under consideration. (Cheers.) Was that the • way
these noble lords thought to trifle with the people of Eug-
land ? (Cheers.) He denied that he had cast any imputa-
tion on the gallant defenders of,Kars, and the best proof of
that was, that he had received a letter of thanks from their
relatives. He spoke the conviction of hie heart when he
said that the officers in Rare Williams. Teesdale, Lake,
and Thompson, deserved the 'honour of the country fu
more than her Majesty's Government, because they saved
it from an ignominious peace. He denied that he had
been asked by any one not to speak what he believed to
be true of Lord Stratford. When he read the blue-book
he said that no honest man could justify the conduct of
Lord Stratford. He spoke the dictates of his heart whet
he sail that Lord Stratford showed himself arrogant tS
his inferiors and disobedient to his superiors in aloe,
and if such conduct was to receive the sanction of Go.
vernmant, their generals and ambassadors would In
future be little batter than despotic tyrants. (Cheers.)
But even when Lord Stratford's judgment got the
better of his temper, and informed the Government
of what they ought to do, the Government took
steps to carry out his suggestions. Since he last ad-
dressed the house he learned that even without money
General Williams could have procured provisions if he had
had but the authority of the Ambassador. (Hear.) The
pay of a Turkish soldier was 2d. a-day, and if the Govern-
ment had sent but 30,0001. to General Williams he would
have saved Kars. (Oh, oh.) He did not know how many
would vote for him on the present occasion. He counted
on the support of the Administrative Reformers, but he
believed they would prove mere mock reformers. (Cheers.)
When areal abase was placed before thorn, they retained
the abase, in order to maintain the men who were guilty.
of it. (Hear, hear.) On his side they struck at the abuse
and the men. (Oh, oh, and Hear, hear.) He was &don-
ished at the speech of the hon. member for Aylesbury,
who defended not only the conduct of Lord Statford, but
of Lord Panmure. He could not understand that politi-
cal morality wnich justified a misstatement of the truth.
(Hear, hear.) If that was the hon, member's morality, it
was not the morality of the gentlemen of England.
(Cheers.) When suck questions were put, a Minister
might preserve silence if he pleased, yet he had no right
to say that which he knew not to be right. (Hear.)
" But the age of virtuous politics is past,
And we are deep iu that of cold pretence ;
Patriots are grown too shrewd to be sincere,
And we too wise to trust' them."
(Hear, hear.) This question is now before the House.
Whatever may be the result, we at least have done our
duty, and it is satisfactory to feel, in examining this mi-
serable business, that it was not in the power of a Minis-
try to efface the glory of the past, for the mighty names of
our Wellington and Nelson would ever keep fresh the
fame of our military victories and preserve the lustre of
our naval triumphs. (Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON rose to explain. The hon. and
learned gentleman had entirely misconceived his remarks
with regard to the war in Asia. What he meant to ley
was that during the attack on Sebastopol, and until it was
taken, they had nothing to do with the war in Asia.
(Cries of " oh" and cheers.) He did not mean to say that
after Sebastopol was taken acampaign in Georgia was not
part of the plan of operatione.
The house then divided on Mr. Ker Seymer's amend-
ment.

For the amendment 52
Against it
The house then divided on the original resolution of Mr.
Whiteside. •

For the resolution 176
Again! it 303-127
The announcement of the numbers was received with
loutl cheers from the Ministerial benches.

The other orders were then 'disposed of, and the house
adjourned at half•past one. •

PARLIAMENTARY DI VISION.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-MAY I.

FALL OF KARS.

Motion made, and question put. The house divided—Ayes
176, Noes 303.

AYES-176.

Adderley, C. IL Evelyn, W. J. Montgomery, H. L.
Alexander, J. Farnham, E. Sloore, G.
Annesley, Earl of Farrer, J. Mowbray, J. R.
Arbuthnott, Gen. H. Fitzgerald, W. R. S. Murrough, J. P.
Archdall. Capt. M. F over, J. Naz+. Lord
Batley, Sir J. Follett, 11. S. Na Jer, J.
Bailey, C. Forester, Col. Newdegate, C.
Baillie, H. Forst. r, Sir Geo. Newport, Viscount
Baldock, E. 11. Franklyn, G. Noel. G.
Ball, E. Galway, Viscount Nordl, Col. S.
Bankes, Rt. lion. G. George, J. Northcote, Sir &
3arrington, Vist. Gilpin, Col. li. Oakes, J.
lffateson, Capt.,T. Graham, Lord M. Ossulston, Lord
Bellew. T. Grogan. Edward Parke, C.
Bennet, Capt. P. GuernFeh Lord Pakington, Sir J.'
Bentiuck, Lord H. Guinness, K. S. Palk, L.
Rent luck. G. Gwyn, Vowel Peacocke, G. ,
Beresford, Kt. lin. W Haiford, Slr Henry Rept° is. G.
iAernard, vist. Hall, General John Robertson, P.
Bignold, Sir S. Ilmolton. Lord Claud Ruabout, (apt. G.
Blake, H. J. Hamilton, G. A. Rust, James
Itlitkeinor.., T. Hernia... R. • Shirley, E.
Blatidford, Marquis of Ilanbury, don. S. Sibthorp, Major
Bolder°, Col. 11. G. liandeock. 11. Elinijill, sir W.
Bowyer. G Hardy, G. Smith, Abel
Bramley-Moore, J. Hayes, Sir H. . Somerset, Colonel
Buck, Col. Heathcoate, Sir W. Spooner, It.
Buller, 9ir J. Henley, J. Stafford, A.
Burrell, Sir O. Herbert, Sir T. Stanhope, J.
Burroughes, 11. N. Hildyard, R. C. StApley, Lord
burrov.'es. Robert Hume, W. Stflttkie, Le O.
I Butt, G. M. Irton. S. Sti•scey, Sir H.
Cabbelt, A. B. . Jolliffe, 11. Stuart, Captain
Cairns. 11. Jones, Admiral Sturt, H.
Comae, Sir J.R. Kell., Sir F. Swift, R.
Cecil, Lord Kendall, N. Thesiger, Sir. F.
Chandos, Marquis of Kennedy, T. . Tottenham. C.
Christy, Samuel King, J. Trollop e, Sir J.
Clinton, Lord C. Knatchbuil, W. Tyler, Sir G.
Clive, Hon. It. W. Klught. F. ' Vance, John
Cocks, T. S. Knox, Col. B. W. ' Vensittart. G.
Cole, 11. A. Lacon, Sir E. Venter, Sir W.
Coles, H. Langton, W. IL P. G. Vernon, V.
Compton, H. C. Lennox, Lord A. F. Vyse, Col. R.
Conoily, T. Lennox. Lord H. G. Walcott, Admiral.
Corhally, M. E. Liddell, 11. G. . Wa:pole. S.
Corry, H. T. L. Lindsay, Col. J. Warren, S.
Cubitt, W, Lisburne, Earl Whiteside, J.
Davies, D. Lushington, C. M. Whitmore. H.
Davies, J. Lytton, Sir E. Wigram, Loftus T.
Davison, R. Macartney, G. Williams, T.
Disraeli, B. IsiacEvoy, E. Woadd, B.
Dod, J. MacGregor, James Wyndham, Gen.
Drax, J. MacMahon, P. Wyndham, IL
I Mneombe, Hon. A. Maguire, J, F. Wynne, John
Duncombe, Hon.W.E. Matins, Richard Yorke, E.
Dundas, G. Manners, Lord J.
Dunne, Colonel March,' Earl of TELL2II.
Du Pre, C. Mena, Sir H. Jolliffe, Sir W.
Maley. Viscount Michell, William Taylor, Colonel

. r•~'

NOES-3G3.
Acland, Sir T. Fortescue, C. S. O'Flaherty, A.
Acton, Joseph Fox, W. J. Oliveira, B.
Adair, H. Freestun, Colonel Osborne, R.
Agnew, Sir A. Gibson, M. Otwey, A.
A lcock, T. Gifford, Earl of Owen, Sir J.
Anderson, Pir J. Gladstone, W. Paget, Lord A.
An trobus, E.
CI ln .
0,
. - Palmer, Roundel!
rt Atheon, W. Gordon, Palmerston, Viscount
Baines, Tit. Hon. M. Gower, F. Patten, Col.
Ball, J. Grace, 0. Paxton, S' J.
Baring, H. Graham, Sir J. Pechell, Sir G.
Baring, Sir F. Greenall, Gilbert Peel, Sir R.
Barnes, T. Greene, John Peel, F.
Bass, M. Greene, Thomas Pollstt, A.
Baxter, W. . Gregson, Samuel Perry. Sir E.
Beamish, F. Grenfell, Charles Philipps. .T.
Beaumont, W. Greville, Colonel F. Phialmore, J. G.
Beckett, W. Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir G. Phinimore, R. J.
Bell, J. Grey, IL Pigott, F. "
Berkeley, Sir M. Grosvenor. Ld.-R. Pilkington, J.
Berkeley, Hon. H. F. Grosvenor, Earl _ Pollard-Urquhart, W.
Bethell, Sir It. Gurney, I. IL • Ponsonby, A.
Biddulph, Col. R. M. Hadfield, George Power. N.
Biggs, W. Hall, Sir Benjamin Price, W.
Black, Adana Hankey, T. Pritchard, J.
Bland, L. H. Hanmer, Sir John Ramsden, Sir Z.
Bonham-Carter, J. Harcourt, G. G. Raynham, Yiscount
llouverie, lion. E. P. Hardinge, Hon. C. Ricardo, 0.
Brady, J. nestle, Alex. Ricardo, S.
Bramston, T. W . thistle, Archd. Rice, E.
Brand, H. B. W. Headlam, T. Rich, H.
Brocklehurst, J. Heard, J. Richardson. J.
Brockman, E. D. Ileathcote, G. Ridley, George
Brotherton, J. Heneage, Geo. H. Robartes, T.
Brown. H. Heneage, Geo. F. Roebuck, J.
Brown, W. Herbert, H. Rolt, P.
Bruce, Lord E. Herbert, S. Russell, Lord J.
Bruce, H. A. Hervey, Lord A. Russell, F. C.
Buckley, Gen. Heywood, J. Russell, F. W.
Bulkeley. Sir R. Higgins, G. O. Sawle, C
Burke, Sir T. Hindiey, C. Scholelleld, W.
Byng, G. H.C. Hogg, Sir J. W. Scnbell, Capt.
Cardwell, E. Holland, E. Scrope, G.
Castlerosse, Vie. Horsman, E Scully, F.
Caulfield, Col. J. Howard, C. Seymour, H.
:lavendish, C. C. Howard, Lord E. Seymour. W. D.
Cavendish, G. C. Hughes, W. • Shafto, R.
Challis, T. Hutchins, E. Shee. Serjt. W.
Chambers, M. Hutt, W. Shelburne, Earl
Chambers. T. s Ingham, R. Shelley, Sir J.
Chaplin, W. Ingram, H. Sheridan, R.
Clay, Sir W., Et. Jackson, W. Smith, J. B.
Cobbett, J.
Cockbarn, Sir A. J. E. jJoerhmnsYnto;ieß.t.l. Ila•
• • Earl
Smith, R.
Collier, R. P.eSomm%tryilit. Jioen.nsir
W'.
Colvile, C. R. Stafford, Marquis
Cowan, C. Kershaw,th iiti
is. gon, effj.
.. Sir J.
Cowper, W. King, L. Stanley, W.
Craufurd, E. H. J. Kingscote, Capt. R. Steel, John
Crossley. F. Kinnatrd, A. a Strickland, Sir G‘
LKairbko'uNcVhe. re,Rt.Hol.llBStuntilltvt'an.illijohasil"; •
Currie, Ralkes
DDDeaa:lksieer.i.'n.shiirEial.dit. F. Laffan, Capt. R. Sutton, J.
Langston, .1. H. Talbot, C.
Denison, E. Langton, IL G. Tancred. IL
LL Lee,aegY lai W.
al
a: .AC. I.
I . Thompson, G.
Lemon, Sir C. Thornely. T.
ipd:
eee
rnrii
Dent,
, Sir J . BE ..
De Vert, S. E.Tuombill, W.
The, W.,
Dill wyn, L. L. Lewis, Sir G. C. Tomline. G.
Dlvett, E. Lindsay,W. Trani, G.
Drutnlanrig, Vis. Lowe, R. Liebrldge, Earl
Drummond, H. Luce, T. . Vane, Lord IL
Duff, G. Mackie, .I'. Vernon, G.
Duke, Sir J. Mackinnon, W. Villiers, C.
Duncan, Viscount aleTaggart, Sir J. Vivian, H. H.
Duncan, George 14 nen, W. • • Waddington. D.
Dundas, F. Marjorlbanks, D. walmsley, Sir J.
bungarTan, Viscount Marshall. W. Walter, J.
Dunlop. A. Martin, J. Warner, E.
East, Sir J. Martin, P. Waterpark, Lord
Ebrlngton, Viscount Massey, W. Watkins, Col.
Ellice, E. Milligan, H. Watson, W.
Ellice, E. Drills, T. Wells, W.
Emlyn, Viscount Milner, W. M. E. Whatman, J.
Esmonde, J. Mitres, R. Whitbread, S.
Estcourt, T. V itchell, T. A. Wickham. H.
Euston, Karl of Moffat, 0. Wilkinson, W.
Ewart, W. Monck, Vis. Willcox, B.
Ewart, J. Moncridff, J. Williams, M.
Fagan, W. Monsell. W. Williams. W.
Fenw ck, IL Morris, D. Wilson. J.
Fergus, John Moatyn, E.
Ferguson, Colonel 31 owatt, F.
rerguson, Sir it. Mulgra...e. Earl Of Wl'wrwillisner::AnSg.it:Cnvv.l W.
Sir
ll'
Filmer, Sir E. Muntz, G Wrightson, G. • Wyndham, W.
Fitz Gerald. Sir John Napier, Sir C. Will' M'
Fitzgerald, J. Norreys, Sir D.
Fitzroy, Henry North, F.
Foley, J. H. O'Brien, P.
Forster, Charles O'Brien, J.
Forster, John. O'Connell, J.

.. -~

?MM.
Ilayter, W.
Berkeley, G. C.

The Berlin wool fair wilt be held this year from the
21st to the 25th of June.
LThimzst EAF TEN CONCLUDING, PASSAGES IN TN/.
LIFE OF MRS. MARGARET MAITLAND, OV SuawYnnm
—Wairrns Br IIae4ELP.-1 VoLuni.—We are glad to
observe that a new and cheaper edition of "
compri end in a single volume, has just appastred: 'l4
this f. srm the work will doubtless heooms extragaelY
popul: ir. The 4thenceum, in its notice of this istigestimg
book, nays:- -"The concluding series of Paasak"lntlto.
Life of Mrs. Margaret Maithind' is to 'our thinking
sup nior to the beginning, and this we take to he about.
the ,/ most satisfactory compliment we can pay the
a'• Aboress. Thera is a vein. of simple good sense send
r ,loos feeling running throughout for which no milq
can fail to be the better."