The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-17 00:00:00

SATURDAY EVENING,

state of affairs. Ho (Mr. Bright) was not able to say
whether Lord Elgin was the most suitable man to go out,
but if he could clear himself from any feeling of exaspera-
tion, then there certainly was no reason why the noble earl
should not be as good a man as any other to send out. Pos-
sibly the failure of the noble lord's brother might have this
beneficial effect on him—that he might feel anxious by his
own conciliatory conduct, and by a wish to close this dismal
chapter, to conduct the affair well, and retrieve the misfor-
tune of his relative. He thought the noble lord the Foreign
Secretary in his instructions should not insist on that point
of the treaty which required an English Minister to reside
at Pekin. (Hear, hear.) He could see no advantage to this
country or to its policy or trade in having such a resident
Minister; and if we were more powerful than the Chinese
—if we could send fleets And armies without stint, and
break up a great nation which was in existence centuries
before we were heard of, surely it was not natural that we
should heap the most supreme insult Upon the governor of
those 300,000,000 of men. (Hear.) Let the noble lord tell
the house what was the use of establishing Mr. Bruce, or
his success-or, at Pekin. If the noble lord could show that
the good was something greatly overbalancing the evil, then
the house would consider it. But it seemed to him, to use az

expression which had lately become common, " going to
war for an idea," and an idea about as stupid as a statesman
could well entertain. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The hon.
member for Portsmouth had advised them not to be led into
what he called this new crime. He (Mr. Bright), as the
house knew, was not always expressing his distrust of the
Emperor of the French. (A laugh.) He believed he always
spoke as respectfully of the French Emperor or the Aus-
trian Emperor as of any person he was acquainted with, but
the present case might be one where the objects of another
Government were different from the objects of the British
Government. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord at the head
of the Government had told them there was no conven-
tion with regard to these transactions--no specific agree-
ment between the two countries. But he (Mr. Bright)
thought we might be allowing ourselves to be dragged into
a complication in China which might be of immeasurable
evil there, and might lead afterwards to serious complica-
tions and unpleasantness nearer home. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer could not be very happy if he heard the
speech of the hon. member for Portsmouth (Sir J. Elphin-
stone) as to expenses. It appeared to him (Mr. Bright) the
country and Parliament had become absolutely drunk on
this question. (A laugh) Words of truth and soberness,
such as he had endeavoured to speak on the question, were
treated as if he were really talking about something con-
cerning the people in another planet, and that we had no-
thing whatever to do with the matter. Hon. gentlemen op-
posite might charge him with having some special affeotion
for hon. gentlemen on the Government side of the house.
He had certainly taken a great interest in everybody who
had been powerful on that bench since he had been Perlis •
ment, when he found they were pursuing a course which
appeared to be in harmony with the true interests of the
country. But when they came to this China question he
confessed he thought the Government, although they re-
ceived it as a legacy from the last Government, were stand-
ing on ground so slippery, that he should not be the least
surprised if next session of Parliament, supposing they
lived so long as a Government—he certainly hoped they
would—(hear, hear)—but he should not be surprised if they
found themselves engulphed on this very China question
which had once before caused political changes in that house
When that discussion took place three years ago he was
spending the winter at Rome, and he recollected receiving
a letter from his hon. friend the member for Rochdale,
written immediately after the division on the China ques-
tion, in which he said, " Mr. Gladstone's speech was a
marcrel of persuasive eloquence." (Hear, hear.) That was
true, for he had heard it confirmed since by scores of per-
sons who listened to it. (Hear, hear.) But the right hon.
gentleman on that occasion was speaking on behalf of the
great principles of justice. He was telling the house that
what the noble lord called English prestige was valueless
to a nation unless it was based on that which was equi-
table in its policy to other natiens. (Cheers.) He was
not blaming the Government for adopting a policy which
was inequitable. He was only warning them against two
things—against partnership with another Power in transac-
tions which they could not control, and against making
demands on the Government of China which were based on
disasters caused by the folly of your own Minister, and
which they had no right, in the sight of God or man, to
make. (Hear, hear.) He believed that, on looking back
to the transactions with China for the past few years, there
was nothing more vile or vicious to be found in our history
—that there was no page in our Annals more full of real
humiliation, because it was full of guilt, than that on which
was recorded our transactions with China. (Hear, hear.)
It was because ho felt this, and wished the Government to
live and prosper, and the house to stand honourably before
the country, to hold a position high in morals and credit
before the world, that he warned the Government and the
house against proceeding in a policy which no man in his
conscience could say is not a policy in defiance of the law
of Heaven, and in opposition to those laws and principles of
justice without which human society itself could not be held
together. (Cheers.)
Mr. S. HERBERT said that the hon. member for
Portsmouth seemed to have misconceived some words which
had fallen from the noble lord, judging from the emphatic
manna in which he deprecated an advance upon Pekin.
The policy of the hon. baronet seemed to consist in an
advance on Nankin, which he supposed to be either in the
hands of the rebels or left by them an utterly deserted
waste. The hon. baronet farther stated that they should
not only advance upon Nankin, but permanently retain it,
after having first reduced the Taku forts. That part of
the advice of the hon. baronet the Government would not
be disposed to follow. It was the desire of the Govern-
ment to localise the war as much as possible, aid to
confine it to the Chinese Government. The demands
which had been made even. after the disaster of the
Peiho were of the most moderate kind, consisting of
a demand for the ratification of the treaty as
it originally stood, and an apology for the outrage com-
mitted. There was no demand for an indemnity. The hon.
baronet's warning against the advance on Pekin was hardly
needed, especially by two such armies as the French and
English, because the experience of the one in Cabul, and
of the other in the retreat from Moscow would make them
hesitate in advancing into a country where the rivers were

frozen. With regard to the coolie immigration, Mr. Aus-
tin, a very valuable officer, was engaged in putting some
restrictions upon that traffic, and he hoped that other Euro-
pean nations would accommodate themselves to the views

Of the English Government on the subject. He now came
to the speech of the member for Birmingham. The hon.
gentleman said, and he said with truth, that this was a
quet on which need not be discussed with asperity on either
side of the house, because both Governments had been more
or less mixed up with the transactions which had occurred.
He need not enlarge upon the treaty of Tien-tsin. He had

his own opinion with regard to the transactions in China,

and would candidly say that he believed they had got in
the wrong groove, and that they would find it difficult to

got out of it. (Hear, and laughter.) It might be true that
the treaty of Tien-Wu imposed conditions unacceptable to
China, and that we got advantages which we should have
been better without, but that treaty having been accepted,
they were bound to see that it was carried out, and its pro-
visions respected. (Hear.) The Chinese plenipotentiaries
had beau accused of treachery in their diplomatic negotia-
tions with the British Minister. In that respect he believed

they were not far removed from the condition of diplomacy
which existed amo2gat the civilised nations of Europe at the
end of the last century and the beginning of the present.

(Cries of " Now, now," and laughter.) Whatever might
be thought of the policy in China for the last 20 years,
and however much they might desire to obtain their ob-
ject without bloodshed, he believed it would be vain to ex-
pect that they could accomplish their purpose withofit
the presence in China of a large naval and military force.
The honourable gentleman spoke of the success of the
American Minister. He certainly profited by the presence
of the English fleet, and wisely confined his demand to the
most favoured nation clause. The presence of the English
fleet very much facilitated their obtaining that result. It
was very easy to be wise after the event, and to criticise
the conduct of men who were acting at a great distance,
and under very difficult circumstances. But supposing
that Admiral Hope had suc..Teded- in his attack, they would
have nothing to say against Mr. Bruce. He hoped, how-
ever, that when Lord Elgin arrived in China matters
would he placed on a better footing ; but he was sorry to
think that, to accomplish this purpose, he must be attended
by a large military demonstration. (Hear, hear.) The
Earl of Elgin had many qualities necessary for the mis-
sion. Ho had great local knowledge; and having natu-
rally the success of his own treaty at heart, he would be
desirous to convert that treaty iito a durable and per-
manent peace. No one could read the blue-book without
seeing that his opinion was that England was asking too
much, and dealing too harshly with the Chinese. Through-
out his correspondence there was a spirit of wisdom and
conciliation which gave him (Mr. S. Herbert) the greatest
hope that bis administration would also be marked by those
qualities, and that he would place our relations with the
Chinese on such a footing as to secure us the blessings of
commerce and peace. (Hoar, hear.) He hoped the house
would go very shortly into committee, when he would explain
how matters stood with regard to this particular vote.
Sir J. PAKINGTON quite agreed that this discussion
should not be made a party affair. The late Government
appcinted Mr. Bruce, and while he agreed with the right
hon. gentleman to that extent, he must add that the right
hon. gentleman had not removed from his mind a feeling of
disappointment with which he had heard the statement of
the noble lord that evening. The noble lord had hardly
acted up to his promise made the other evening that he
would, on the receipt of the despatches, make a full state-
ment to the house as to what was to be the policy of the
Government with regard to our affairs in China. The noble
lord had not redeemed that pledge, and while they had a
right to complain of the speech of the noble lord, he was sure
the Government had no cause to complain of having been
unduly pressed by the Opposition on this subject. On the
contrary, ho had been apprehensive that with the Budget,
the Reform Bill, and our foreign policy, that attention
might not be paid to this matter which was due to its great
importance. (Hear, hear.) It involved a question of the
utmost importance to us in relation to our trade to our
future policy in China, and the general question as to
whether we should enter into & great and expensive war or

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