The Sun.
London, England, 1856-02-05 00:00:00

contribution which, if our shipping went on increasing at its
present ratio, would, no doubt, soon have to be doubled.
The result of this will be, taking the account between the
consolidated fund and this bill, that that fund will gain by
getting rid of this annual burden of 52,0001., which would
increase with the increase of our trade; and it will lose
0,000/. iu all by paying off the debts upon the Whitby and
Bridlineton tolls, I omitted to mention another abuse which
we propose wholly to extinguish—viz., the exemption of
freemen from charges that are imposed upon other persons
—such an immunity being indefensible, on the double
ground that it is invidious in its nature, and that it gives to
those who enjoy it an unfair advantage in the keen competi-
tion of trash) over their less-favoured fellow-citizens. (Hear.)
In order to facilitate the re-adjustment of the taxation in har-
bours which will have been disturbed by this very sweeping
change, it will be necessary to introduce another measure, the
object of which will be similar to that of the Borough Har-
bours (Scotland) Bill, which gives to local bodies the power
of raising their charges to enable them to meet their exigen-
cies, subject, however, to a control which guards the ship-
ping interest from excessive exactions. If the present bill
should meet with the approbation of the house, the other
measure will also be shortly submitted for its considera-
tion. The result, then, of the whole change which we now
propose to effect will be this—that we shall immediately
benefit the shipping interest to the amount of 44,3611.,
as the figures stood when the calculation was made,
but in the current year the sum would probably reach 50,0001.
This will be the effect of the remission of the small taxes at
Dublin and Cork, and the abolition of passing tolls; and ulti-
mately there would be a further reduction of duties to the
amount (as nearly as we can calculate) of 20,0001. The whole
of this relief of course will not be immediate; but a consider-
able portion of it. may be so ; and the rest must be withheld
in order to discharge the debt for which shipping will be
liable. That, s;.r, is the plan of the Government; and I apolo-
gise to the committee for detaining it so long with a very dry
statement. 'involving much minute detail. But lam con- '
vinced that the more you consider the subject the more
strongly you will feel its importance. It is a question of the
shipping interest and the public against a few local bodies,
who will not say have clung to, but) have had forced upon
thesis by the interference of the Legislature powers and rights
w'sich cannot be defended on the grounds of equity and jus-
ice. 1 trust that this house will do that justice to the ship-
pine' interest of this country which I am sure it desires to do,
and will give another proof of its determination to enforce the
doctrines of free trade to their legitimate consequences, as
well as to affirm once more that great principle without which
no man's property can be safe or secure—namely, that it is
not in the power of any one class to tax another except for
the benefit of the class that is taxed. The right hon. gentle-
man concluded by moving that the chairman be directed to
ask /sieve to bring in a bill for the abolition of passing tolls
and the regulation of local dues upon shipping.
"flse question having been put,
Mr. HEADLAM hoped that the right hon. gentleman
would allow due time for considering the bill to the nume-
Tons parties whose interests it affected, between the period
of its introduction and the date of the second reading. The
shipping interest, more particularly since the repeal Of the
navigation laws, was entitled to every reasonable remission
of any onerous burdens that pred upon it ; but, anxious
as he was to deal considerately andsven tenderly with that
important interest, he must nevertheless declare at the very
outsit that so far as this measure sought in any way to deal
with the property of corporations on a different principle from
that adopted in regard to the property of private individuals
he would offer to it his most unhesitating and determined op-
position. (Hear.) The property of municipal corporations
was unquestionably held in trust for the benefit of the com-
munity over which they ruled ; and this principle was clearly
expressed in the Municipal Corporations Act. Such property
was the property of the poor, and surely should not be denied
the same protection that was thrown around the possessions
of the rich. This bill, however, was based on no principle
that could for one instant be justified. It might be desirable
from time to time, with a view to the public interests, to take
away the property of individuals and of corporations ; but in
every such case strict justice demanded that compensation
should, without distinction, be granted to the parties whose
rights were thus invaded.
Mr. HOBSFALL would reserve any observations that 1, e
might wish to make on the general question now raised unt
the bill was in the hands of members ; but felt that one re-
mark which the right hon. gentleman had made when allud' .ng
to the amount of dues levied at Liverpool, Hull, Newell:, tee,
and other places, required some notice. The right hon. fee' Ale-
man stated that the sanitary condition and the munici d re-
gulations of these towns w ere notoriously bad. Now, h a (Mr.
Horsfall) must entirely contradict that statement ; f o r there
was no town iu the kingdo, n tho sanitary condition a' slit muni-
cipal government of which, were superior to those of Liver-
pool. What, however, had the sanitary cot edition of
Liverpool to do with aqn ,estion of passing tolls on shipping ?
The expenses connected_ with the sanitary re gulations of
Liverpool were defrayed, by a separate rate lets
inhabitants. The Got Arnment had sent out one of the
officers of the Liver,pool Sanitary Board to , superintend
their hospitals in tb
.e Crimea ; and if the s.^ Con of that town • ,eas so unsatisfactory ash ad been repre-
.nitary comb-
sented, ho could nt ,t but express his surprise' shat the Govern-
ment should have , selected au agent from a place where the
nitary ansinge moots were represented t,
The right lion. be so defective.
gentleman had stated the'
his bill reform the dues to which
d were most oppressive, a'
inJ uriously u• don the prosperity of ',Ay Ad had operated most
erpool ; but the fact
was that, no
,twithstanding the utP,ezeS
dues, no to - oppressiveness of those
wit in the kingdom had, of late years, been more
l'r"Per°' a A than that very t which t' own W hich ho represented, and
their ' no. rigi• hon. gent
•ci" sn Lad cited as an example of
anew•
tnjur,ous effects. Ile would -not now endeavour to
up, ser the question a'
eked by the right hon. gentleman—
c,.
wi',at authority
rpor , these dues were levied ? The varlets
who, aimed such dues levied them under a title
7,,,`c-h, in his °Pig' sons could not b's disputed, and he thought
at, before pre ceeding to lcgisla to on this subject, the pre/i-
-. minary quest, on whether thes4 corporations had or had not a
legal right tr, such dues ought, to be decided by a court of law.
If it should be proved that they hada legal title to these dues,
it would he inconsistent with justice to deprive them of stuch
a right without affording tl',em ample compensation ; u
that nq !egad
on the other baud, the er,urts of law decided
title existed, it would btvvery easy for the house to deal with
the subject. He hope.), that, previously to the esecond read
ing of the bill, full tin vs would he afforded for the considera
tion of its provisions by those whose inteness it would so ma
terially affect.

Mr. RICE rose s 4 mply to protest against the assumption of
the right hon. gee Aleman who introduced the bill that all the
dues in questior A levied by corporations were originally
granted for ship ping purposes. He had been glad to hear
what had faller A from the right hon. gentleman with reference
to the port of Dover, which he hoped would soon be entitled
to the appollf ttion of a harb3ur. He expressed his hope that
ample tirfie - would be afforded to parties interested in this
subject for carefully considering the effect pf the measure.
Mr. G IBSON was not inclined to dispute the state-
ments of his hon. friend opposite with regard to the sanitary
conditi° n of Liverpool, and he was glad to hear that the ex-
peudit• ire 'for sanitary purposes in that town was met by
a spot' ,ial rate. He considered that all the municipal expenses
of be 'roughs ought to be supported by rates imposed on the
ioll'Abitants, and not by dues levied upon shipping and upon
commerce. (Hear, hear.) He felt assured, from communi-
car ions be had received from his constituents, that they
enld learn with great satisfaction that the Government
'had resolved to deal with this important question, and that
they would no longer allow Manchester and the surround-
ing districts to be taxed in order to defray the municipal
expenses of the borough of Liverpool. Without giving any
opinion as to the particular details of the measure, he would
be most ready to support the principles laid down by the
right hon. gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade.

Mr. LIDDELL was ready to endorse most fully the
opinions expressed by the hon. member for Newcastle-on-
Tyne, and wished to know why it was proposed to adopt a
different course with regard to private and to corporate pro-
perty ? To one sentiment in the very able speech of the Vice-
President of the Board of Trade he most cordially assented
—namely, that he could see little liberality in dealing with
the property of others, and on that ground he entertained
strong objections to the measure of the right hon. gentleman,
which he would state on a future occasion.
Mr. W. S. LINDSAY thanked the right hon. gentleman
for the measure he proposed to introduce, and considered
that he was dealing very generously—indeed, rather too
eueronsly—with those corporate bodies who for so long a
time had levied taxation upon shipping and commerce for
purposes quite alien to those interests. When the proper
time arrived he believed he should be able to answer any
arguments which might be adduced with a view of -showing
that these corporations had a right to tax the shipping inte-
rests for municipal purposes.
Mr. WATeON thought it desirable those taxes should be
removed, and to that extent he would support the measure of
the right hou. gentleman ; but the proposal to deal with the
property of various corporations; such as the Trinity-houses
of Newcastle, Liverpool, and other places required very grave
consideration. He believed it would be found that, in some
cases, these rights of taxation had been possessed by corpora-
tions immemorially, for reasons which must be perfectly ob-
vious to those who were acquainted with the circumstances
of the towns with which such corporations were connected.
He hoped that ample time would be given for the considera-
tion of the bill previously to the second reading.
Mr. LOWE observed that he had not intended to cast any
reflection upon the sanitary state of Liverpool ; but what lie
had meant to say was, that it was not in the ornate condition
a town might be supposed to present that was levying a tri-
bute of 105,000/. a-year upon the shipping and commercial
interests. He had not said that these dues were imposed for
shipping purposes, but directly the reverse, for he believed
the old corporations, which existed before the passing of the
Municipal Corporation Reform Act, and which were in re-
ceipt of such tolls, could apply them as they pleased, with-
out the slightest regard to shipping purposes. Some hon.
gentlemen had referred to the vested interests of corpora-
tions, and had said that the bill proposed a serious interfve-
ence with those interests. But that question had been al-
ready discussed and decided. How did the corporations ob-
tain the administration of their funds ' By virtne of the
Municipal Reform Act, which took away the propeely from
self-elected bodies, which lied little or no • y
the inhabitants of the towns, and vested it cionmbraolinelst-elevrictethd
by the ratepayers. The Municpal Reform Act a_
Worded the
strongest possible instance that it wastherpoprraaettliceee, of the Le-
gislature to deal with the property of eo
The motion for the introduction of the' ween,s*
w
"ten agreed
to, and the house resumed.
• METROPOLITAN POLICE,
Sir G. GREY moved for leave to bring in a bill to amend
the Metropolitan Police Act. The object of the bill was to
place the undivided control, responsibility, and management
of the police of the metropolis in the hands of one commis_
sioner, instead of leaving it under tho control of two, as pro.
vided by the existing act. One step in this direction was
made by an act passed a few years since, which authorised
one of the commissioners to do all those acts which the ori-
ginal act required should be doue by both. Some doubts
had been raised as to the extent of powers conferred by this
act, and it had beet' considered advisable to introduce the
present bill. leer Majesty's Government proposed to place
the metropolitan police upon the same footing as the Irish
constabulary, with one inspeetoreeeneral, assisted by two as.
sistant inspector-generals, each of whom would hold a com-
mission of the peace in one of the counties included in the
district, who might, by warrant from the Secretary The iou
adoldistMteal
set in the event of any vacancy occurring.
duties conferred upon the commissioners of police by the
Hackney Carriages and Lodging-house Acts would be
charged by one of the assistant commissioners. It was pro-
posed to give to the chief commissioner a salary of 1,5001. per
annum, and to each of the assistants 800/. a year. The pre-
sent charge of management was 3,2001., so that while a slight
reduction would be made in the expenses a great increase in
the efficiency of the force would be obtained.
Leave was then given to bring in the bill.
HER MAJESTY'S REPLY TO THE ADDRESS.
Lord DRUMLANRIere appeared at the bar of the
house, and read the reply of her Majesty to the Address agreed
S pe
upon
ch.
by
the House of Commons, is answer to her Majesty's
e
PRISONS, BURIAL OF THE DEAD, AND JUVENILE
OFFENDERS (IRELAND)
On the motion of Mr. HORSMAN, leave ;as given to bring
the three bills on the subject of management of the prisonsg
the burial of the dead, and the treatment of juvenile offender,
s
in Ireland.

EPISCOPAL AND CAPITITLAR ESTATES,
The Marquis of ELANDFORD obtained leave to bring in