The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-23 00:00:00

ENGLISH SHIPWRIGHTS AT CHERBOURG.

Viscount DUNGANNON said he had given notice of a
question with regard to the report that a large number of
English shipwrights were engaged for the dockyard at Cher-
bourg, at the rate of Bk. a day for eight hours' work, instead
of 6s. as the rate was here, for 10 hours' work. Since then,
however, certain circumstances had occurred which rendered
it unnecessary for him to press for further information on
the subject from the First Lord of the Admiralty. One of
the workmen who had gone over to Cherbourg, tempted by
the prospect of abundant employment and high remunera-
tion, appeared at the Thames Police-court three or four
days ago, and said he felt it his duty to state, for the sake
of others, that he had been unable to procure employment
in France, had fallen into great distress and dastituti n, and
had been sent home again by the kindness of the British
consul.

The Duke of SOMERSET said that he had received an-
other letter from the British consul at Cherbourg, stating
that no British subjects were employed in the dockyard
there. Some British shipwrights had gone over to Cher-
bourg in consequence of the statement which had appeared
in the English newspapers ; but not being able to obtain
work had fallen into a pitiable condition, and bitterly re-
pented their credulity. The consul had sent them home
again, and told them to warn their countrymen of the real
state of the case. The highest wages given to shipwrights
at Cherbourg was 3f.a-day, or not quite 2s. 6d. for 12 hours'
works, as the workmen were not allowed to leave the dock-
yard to take their meals. Besides that, the consul informed
him that no additional shipwrights were required at Cher-
bourg. Some of those in the dockyard had lately been dis-
charged, and the only vessel which was now being con-
struct,d there was a transport. (Hear, hear.)
IRISH MILITIA AND CONSTABULARY.
The Marquis of C LAN RICARDE, in moving for certain
returns with regard to the Irish Militia and Constabu-
lary, said it was a question deserving consideration
whether a large armed force, such as the police of Ireland,
ought ~ot to be brought under the operat on of the Mutiny
Act, and enlisted for a certain length of time. At present
they might quit the service, he believed, at the shortest
notice. He was anxious to know on what system the em-
bodiment and disembodiment of the militia was conducted.
He defied any one to discover any uniform principle which
regulated the proceedings of the War-office in this respect.
It was impossible to make a regiment of militia effective in
28 days' training, and it was therefore unadvisable to leave
any regiment too long in a disembodied state. If 20,600 or
24,000 were always kept embodied in rotation, and the staff
of the other regiments were kept up, it was clear that
within a certain number of years there would be a force of
I_7_°o upon which reliance could be placed on an enter
gcreoocy2and which would be kept up at a cost of only 25,000
au,uoo men. The noble marquis concluded by moving for
the following returns :—Return of the number of men as-
sembled for therilzt‘tizi.it!ning of each of the disembodied
regiments of I
the establishment of e it. regiment ;
Militia, stating also the full amount of
also a return of the
periods at and durinr,
andesaplesoctitacvho;ach of the regiments of Irish
Militia have been r
October, 1854 ; embodied since the month of
aretu
m return of the number of police-
menplo of
ment the Irisishnce constabulrY force who have resigned their
The motion was agreed
ey the commencement of the present year.
On the motion of the Duke of ISTI,\.CASTLE, the Duchy
of Cornwall (Limitation of Actions) 'Lai was read a third
time and passed.
(Scotland) Bill
The Councillors of Burghs and Bttrgesses
passed through committee.
The Plea on Indictment Bill went through committee,
The Fisheries (Scotland) Bill was read a third time and
passed.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair shortly after 12 o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.
The North British and Peebles and Jcdburgh Rail-,

way Cornranleeiiiiaiiiithrs Sovereign Life Assurance
Company Bill were considered and ordered for third read.
ing.
The following bills were read a third time and passed :
Auchterarder Common Muir; North British Insurance
Company; Portadown, Dungannon, and Omagh Junction
Railway; Symington, Biggar, and Brough`cn Railway;
Ilayling Railways; Mid Sussex and Mid, urst Junction
Railway Deviation; and Petersfield Railw y.
MINES REGULATION AND INSPECTION BILL.
The house went into committee on this bill, and resumed-
at clause 2.
Mr. KINNAIRD said that on the last occasion the bill
was discussed he proposed an amendment to reduce the
labour of children to eight hours, but from some statements
he had heard, he was induced not to adhere to that term of
employment. He would therefore alter his amendment,
and move that in page 2, line 10, after " colliery," that
there be inserted " for any hours not exceeding 10 hours

per diem."
Sir G. C. LEWIS said that the principle of a limitation
of the hours of labour for children employed in mines had
been already affirmed, though the number of hours of em-
rioyment had not been determined. There were 12 inspec-
tors of mines, whose mission was to protect the public and
to regard with favourable eyes what related to the condition
of those employed in mines, and 11 out of these had re-
ported against an alteration in the present hours of labour.
Mr. LIDDELL considered that it would be impossible
to regulate the labour of boys in mines without affecting
injuriously the labour of adults. Juvenile labcur in mines
was neither uninterrupted nor severe, and any interference
with it would be most prejudicial.
Mr. AYRTON said it had not been shown that the
alteration in the hours of labour was practically impossible,
and that term meant no more than that it might affect coal-
owners, for it was a mere question of money. The same
objections that had been advanced with reference to the
question had been fully discussed when the subject of
labour in factories was before the house. The same threats
and warnings that were then made were identical with
those now used, but experience had shown that these were
the idle fears arising out of the prejudices of mill owners,
who had been brought up under, and practised, a particular
system. No person had yet demonstrated that the labour

of children in mines could not be reduced to 10 hours, and
he called on the house, in the name of humanity, to agree
to the amendment.

Mr. TAYLOR supported the amendment.
Mr. PEASE followed on the same side, and accused the

hon. member for the Tower Hamlets (Mr. A yrton) of not

being practically acquainted with the subject, and not
having paid attention to the facts developed in the course
of the debate on this bill.

Mr. CLIVE said, if he had been convinced by the argu-
ment of the hon. member (Mr. Ayrton), he would vote for
the amendment, but he considered that the report of the
inspectors of mines was conclusive on the subject, and it
must be remembered that those inspectors were the friends
of the labouring class employed in mines.
Mr. J. LOCKE considered that the question had been
shirked by the opponents of the amendment, and contended
that the testimony of mine inspectors was not sufficient to
prove there was no inhumanity in compelling children of
tender years to work under ground for an indefinite num-
bar of hours day after day. He supported the amendment.
Sir H. VERNEY said that he felt bound to vote in favour
of the amendment.

Mr. CAYLEY said ho was informed by a miner that in
the mine where he first worked there were 40 boys em-
ployed, not one of whom was now living, and in the second
mine, out of 37 boys there were only three living.
Mr. BRUCE asserted that the sanitary state of the mines
and these employed in them had been misrepresented, and
opposed the amendment.
Mr. KINNAIRD replied, and some further discussion
ensued. The house then divided, and the numbers were—

For the amendment
Against 79
Majority —lB
The amendment was accordingly negatived.
Lord LOVAINE moved an amendment to the effect that
for the first six months after the Ist of next year boys under
ten years of age should be admitted to work in mines with-
out a certificate of their ability to read or write.
After a few words from Sir G. C. LEWIS, the amend-
ment was withdrawn, with an understanding that the clause
would be altered in accordance with the wishes of tie hon.
member.

Mr. PAGET moved the following amendment :—Leave
out lines 11 to 19 inclusive, and insert " In the second and
every subsequent week during which such boy is employed
in such mine or colliery, the owner shall obtain a certificate
under the hand of a competent schoolmaster that such boy
has attended school for not less than five hours in each of
two days (not being consecutive days, and on which he
shall not have worked in the mine or colliery), during the
week immediately preceding, between the hours of eight
o'clock in the morning and five o'clock in the evening, ex-
elusive
of any attendance on Sundays." He trusted that
the committee would assist him in establishing a rule that
two days in the week boys alternately should not enter the
mines under any circumstances. By his proposal the mine
owners could have double the command of labour they
would have under the provisions of the bill. Three boys
could do what two boys would do provided the latter
were continually employed. One boy could then
have schooling, and rest on Monday and Thurs-
day, another on Tuesday and Friday, and the
third on Wednesday and Saturday. No doubt some
inconvenience might be experienced by coal owners at first
in the adoption of the alteration proposed, but he trusted
the amendment would not be rejected on that ground, when
it was calcilated to confer so much benefit on the boys em-
ployed in mines.
Mr. EVANS seconded the amendment.

Mr. CLIVE could not accede to the amendment. The
house had already reduced the number of persons employed in
mining, and they wanted now to reduce the amount of that
labour. The hon. member (Mr. Paget) seemed to consider
that the supply of labour for mines was indefinite, but that
was not the case, and any further interference in diminish-
ing the amount of labour applied to mining operations
might be productive of very serious consequences. The
hon. member quoted a report in reference to factories to
show the difficulty that was experienced in obtaining an
adequate supply of labour in that department of indus ry.
Mr. ADDERLEY considered that the hon. member

(Mr. Paget) should be content with one day in the week
appropriated to educational purposes for each boy, and he
would support the amendment if it were limited to that
extent.

Mr. INGHAM coincided with the suggestion of the
right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Adderley).
Mr. JACKSON said that in Derbyshire several thou-
sands were expended in the erection and mainte-
nance of schools, and every opportunity was afforded

- -- in
to children employed in mines that district to
obtain education. He believed that the hours of labour in
mines were not on an average more than eight a day, and
he believed also that for their own interest the coalowners
were in favour of the education of those in their employ •
meat.

Sir G. C. LEWIS said that, in order to meet the views
of hon. members, he would consent to modify the clause to
the extent that for every subsequent week to that in which
the boy was employed any such boy must produce a certi-
ficate of attendance at school for five hours in one day
during such week, irrespective of attendance at schools on
Sundays.

Mr. PAGET, on that understanding-, withdrew his
amendment.

Some discussion ensued, in the course of which Mr.
MONSELL moved the omission of certain portions of the
clause having reference to the educational tests required of
children before their admission to work in mines.

Mr. NEWDEGATE considered that compulsory enact-
ments would not promote education, and the clause would ix:
practically inoperative so far as education was concerned.
In many cases parents were unable to provide education for
their children, and it was most arbitrary and unjust to re-
quire an educational test in order to enable children to get
employment. If they imposed that test they should pro-
vide free education, otherwise they would be depriving the
boy of the means not only of livelihood, but actually of ob-
taining education.

The house then divided and there appeared—
For the amendment
,
Against
131
Majority —62
On the motion that the amendment of Sir G. C. Lewis
stand part of the bill,

Mr. BRUCE moved that the words " in one day" should
be omitted, so that the school hours might be spread over
five days.

The house again•divided and the numbers were—
For the amendment of Sir G. C. Lewis 106
Against
Majority

The clause, as amended, was then agreed to. Some
other clauses were also agreed to, and the chairman re-
ported progress.

The house suspended its sitting shortly before 4 o'clock.

The house resumed at 6 o'clock.
DEFECTIVE ACCOMMODATION IN THE J4AW

COURTS.

Mr. E. JAMES gave notice that on that day week Ile
should call the attention of the First Commissioner of
Works to the defective state of the accommoiation provided
for the administration of justice in the Courts in Westmin-
ster Hall.

PROCEEDINGS OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS.
Mr. T. D UNCOMBE asked the First Lord of the Trea-
sury whether there would be any objection to the Minutes of
Proceedings of the House of Lords being laid daily on the
table of the house; and to obtain the opportunity of making
a few observations, moved that the House at its risingad-
journ to Monday next. The production of those papers would
not only contribute to the more satisfactory despatch of busi-
ness, but would prevent a repetition of the absurd farce which
took place about a month ago, when the noble bold moved the
appointment of a committee for thopurpose of searching the
Journals of the House of Lords to sae what had been done
in reference to the paper duty, when every man, woman,
and child in the kingdom knew four days before what had
taken place. It was formerly quite right that search should
be made in the Journals of the Lords at a time when rays-
cry surrounded the proceedings of the two Houses of Par-