The Sun.
London, England, 1860-08-11 00:00:00

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Earl GRANVILLE, with respect to the question of
the noble earl the other evening as to the business
the Government intended to proceed with, said the Go-
vernment intended to abandon the Lien on Freights
Bill. He much regretted that course, because it
was a most important measure, but if they
thought proper to insist on the bill going forward he should
be ready to proceed. With respect to the other bills he
could not speak positively, but as regarded the Landlord and
Tenant Ireland Bill, it was most certainly the intention of
the Government to go on with it.

Lord REDESDALE said he had been told by a person
intimately acquainted with the proceedings of the other
house, that if they continued the consideration of the esti-
mates at the present rate, they would get through them:in
about two years. (Laughter.)

After a few words from the Marquis of CLINRICARDE,
Lord REDESDALE protested against the needless
waste of the present session. Her Majesty, he said,
had shown that she considered them excessively
slow, and ix.stead of waiting for the close of the ses-
sion, had taken her own holiday, and had gone off
to Scotland. The question was not how many days re-
mained for their lordships, but as many noble lords had
left town, it would be seriously prejudicial to the public
service if important measures were pressed forward at the
present time.

After a short conversation, in which the Duke of Argyll,
Lord Monteagle, and Lord Denman took part, the subject
dropped.

POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.

Lord WODEIIOUSE moved that as regards the Poor
Relief (Ireland) Bill, inasmuch as the Poor Law Commis-
sion in Ireland.will, if not renewed, expire at the close of
the present session of Parliament, the circumstances
which require legislation on this subject appear to
this house to be of such real urgency as to render
the immediate consideration of the same necessary. The
noble lord took the opportunity of referring to many clauses
of the bill, and remarked that, with regard to clause 4,
which prohibited a man occupying a quarter of
an acre of land from receiving outdoor relief,
he did not think that it would be desirable
at the present period to press that enactment on their lord-
ships if they had any objection to it, but he thought it very
desirable that the third clause, which referred to placing
infants out to nurse, should be retained in the bill.

Lord MONTEAGLE said he had great objection to the
third clause, because it was in effect breaking the tie be-
tween parent and child. He thought the clause ought to
be withdrawn, at least fof the present.
The Earl of WESTMEATH said if the clause referred
to by the noble lord were withdrawn, the affair would
become a job. He thought a proper place ought to be pro-
vided in the workhouses for the reception of infants.
Lord REDESDALE said he objected greatly to certain
clauses being placed in continuance bills, and next session
he should move a standing order to meet his objection. He
could not think that either the third or fourth clauses, which
created quite a new system, were such as ought to be
proceeded with on the ground of urgency. He had no ob-
jection to the second clause, and be should move an amend-
ment to secure the continuance of the act till next session,
but excluding the third and fourth clauses from the bill.
Earl GRANVILLE did not think that the bill was
technically what was called a continuance bill.

The question was then put, when their lordships divided,
and the numbers were—
Content
Non-content 34
Majority for tho amendment —4
The bill was then read a second time, the objectionable
clauses being omitted.
CHANCERY EVIDENCE COMMISSION BILL.

On the motion of Lord St. LEONARDS, this bill was
read a second time, the Standing Orders having been sus-
pended.

THE MILITIA BILL.
This bill having been read a third time, a conversation
took place, on the question being put that the bill do
pass, as to whether there should not be an alteration in the
ages fixed for those who should be liable to the ballot.
Earl GRANVILLE sald, that the subject had been well
considered at the War-office, and it was deemed advisable
that the ages fixed upon in the bill should not be disturbed
—namely, from 18 to 30 years.
The bill was then passed.
GAB (METROPOLIS) BILL.
Their lordships went into committee on this bill, which
passed through committee.
EUROPE.AN FORCES (INDIA) BILL.
The Duke of ARGYLL moved the suspension of the
standing order, that; this bill might be read a second time.
He tkought the motion would receive no opposition from
their lordships. This bill was not for the entire abolition of
the local army, bee: 'use after the provisions of this bill came
into existence there would still be large bodies of native
troops. The simple effect of the bill was that no European
troops could be enlisted for exclusive service in India. That
would be undoubte Hy a great change, but the effect of it had
been exaggerated by various distinguished military and civil
authorities in India. In the earlier portions of the history
of the East India Company there was no restriction as to
the enlistment of European troops, but since the year 1773
various restrictions had been imposed by Parliament, and
the truth was, that fora long period very little importance
had been attached to :the service of the European troops.
So far back as 1788, 3 Ir. Pitt had approved of the amalga•
oration of the Indian s with the European forces. In 1798
there were only two reg invents in each presidency, and that
was very much the stat eof things until recent times. The
opinion of Lcrd Cannin g was that it would be impossible to
maintain a local army 'in India, or to get British officers in
sufficient numbers to 'command it. It had been objected
that the bill had been brought forward at a period of the
session when it was impossible adequately to discuss its pro-
visions. The authorities in favour of the bill were so nu-
merous, and the matter had already undergone so much in-
vestigation and disc mission, that this objection should not
prevail. There was nothing in the measure to diminish the
inducements to young men of enterprise and ambition to go
to India, nor was th ere anything in the bill calculated to
withdraw from India. any of those sources of strength and
intelligence which h ail shed on our national character im-
perishable renown. ,(Hear, hear.)
The Earl of ELLIINBOROUGH said the Government
of which he had been a member was deeply indebted to both
armies for the manne r in which, shoulder to shohlder, in
various parts of Ind-ia, for two years they vindicated the
honour of their country. (Hear.) lie was deeply indebted
to both armies. They bath served their country equally
well, and it was since his time those jealousies had grown
up which had been_ productive of such mischievous conse-
quences. He still adhered to the opinion he had expressed
before the commisalon, that there should be equality be-
tween both armies. The noble duke talked of amalgama-
tion, but the bill was not meant to amalgamate the two
armies, but to extinguish the local army. That was the
right object of the bill. (Hear.) The only amalgamation
that would take place under the bill would be to admit into
the number of the Queen's forces the 3,000 bad men who
had deserted their colours, and thus punish vicariously
those who had preserved their loyalty. (Hear.) lie was
devoted to the service of India, and he viewed this proposed
change with the deepest apprehension. He could not hope
to change the views of Government, but it was a gratifica-
tion to him to be able to express his sense of the value of
the Indian army, and his deep gratitude for their services.
Earl DE GREY and RIPON said, that whetherright or
wrong in this measure, the Government had an honest con-
viction that its adoption would tend to the benefit of India.
The Duke of CAMBRIDGE, before the discussion closed,
and from the position he had the honour to occupy, felt
bound to make a few observations. And ho did so with
great doubt and hesitation after what had fallen from his
. noble friend (the Earl of Ellenborough), because the con-
clusions he arrived at were entirely different from his. He
(the Duke of Cambridge) had had many opportunities of
hearing this important question discussed on various
grounds, and, after giving it the fullest and most careful
consideration, after taking the opinions of many military
men on the subject, and especially his noble and gallant
friend who sat near him (Lord Clyde)—he certainly came
to the conclusion that the time had arrived when it was
expedient that a change should be made. (Hear, hear.)
His noble friend the noble earl regretted that the great
change proposed now to bo made was not postponed ; but
'whatever difference of opinion existed as to the mode, there
""'as none whatever as to the necessity of settling it at once.
Ilear, hear-) It was impossible any longer to postpone it;
14_(!eed it woul3 be dangerous to do so, because the feeling
egfonjoealousy, whi'eh he regretted to say now existed, would
inaintincreasing,. He could not see how it was possible to
authority.
As two aria iies in India under a different and separate
India Com
10 Ig as that country belonged to the East
p
it came Yit was a different thing; but the moment
under the authority of the Crown, he could not
should not com a
local force tl7 der comprehend how ?Ilropean troops of different descriptions
3 the authority of one head. If there
ere, was
nanodquhoestion would arise as to the
authority of the CI
idtecrstual,e2ldbelT different thed
present case he wass at a loss to:
(the Duke of Argy}st) alluded to what was ca'll'edls n
a jealousy
of the Horse Guards , but it was not the Horse Guajrds, buty
the authority of thrs Crown. It was idle to suppose that a
certain portion oft h a army in India okight to be in a posi-
tion that the Queer s authority should not exist as regarded
them. The Coma 1: alder-in-Chief would have no more au-
thority conferred o: a him by this bill, further than what
their lordships wi: ;Tied to see he should possess over troops
at home, and as h, e had nothing whatever to do with pro-
motions or appoin 4 cents in that army, it would be the same