The Sun.
London, England, 1860-04-24 00:00:00

PETITIONS.

Several petitions wero presented in favour of and against
the Wine Licensing Bill, in favour of legalising marriage
with a deceased wife's sister, in favour of the adoption of
th 6 sugg,estions of parties practically acquainted with the
sleet of Scotch fishery in any bill on that subject, in
fa our of the Government Reform Bill, in favour of the
abOition of the duty on hops, contemporaneously with the
paring of the Wine Licensing Bill.
MERCHANT SHIPPING.

Mr. HORSFALL moved that the report of the Select
Committee of 1845 on Lighthouses, and the reports on
Fussing Tolls arid Local Charges ; as also copies of the
fo
h owing statutes, 9 and 10 Tic. c. 93, an Act for compen-
sa tng the families of persons killed by accident ; the Mer-
e nt Shipping Act, 1854 ; the Merchant Shipping Act,
145 ; the Passenger Act, 1855; and the Chinese Passau-
ge.F Act, 1655, be referred to the Select Committee on Mer-
chant Shipping—Agrc^d to.
THE NAVY.
Sir JOHN PAKINGTON moved for a copy of proposed
plan for retirement and promotion of naval officers which
was left by Sir J. Pakington, when he quitted office, in the
hands of the present First Lord of the Admiralty.—
Ordered.
Sir C. NAPIER gave notice that he would ask the
Gpvernment a question relative to their not adopting the
suggestion of the commission appointed to inquire into the
subject of the naval reserve force.
THE REFORM BILL.

Mr. B. OSBORNE asked the hon. member for Salford
Tether it was his intention to press his motion in respect
the Reform Bill being referred to a select committee ?

!Mr. MASSEY said that as it was considered that his
lotion would have the effect of obstructing, if not negativ-
-Ig, the Reform Bill, and as he had no such intention, he
buld not press his motion. (Hear, hear, and Oh, oh.)

THE ADJOURNED DEBATE.
I Mr. E. JAMES said ho would just make a few remarks
oit the speech of the right hon. gentleman the member for
t e University of Dublin. The tendency of the right hon.
g ntleman's argument appeared to be that the extension of
clt e franchise to the occupiers of £6 houses in boroughs,
as calculated to give a great preponderance to the demo-
c tic element, and to be of a dangerous and revolutionary
aracter. If it were, it behoved the gentlemen on the
o position side of the house to have met the motion for the
s cond reading of the bill with a direct negative. The right
hon. gentleman's speech followed that of the hon. member
tif r Leeds, who gave them statistics proving the provident
bits of the working classes, of their intelligence, and of
eir increased education. But the right hon. gentleman

elet the whole of that speech with a sneer; and he was the
ore astonished at that, beeause he found on referring to
t e debate on the bill of the late Government, in 1859, the
right hon. gentleman eulogised the bill as calculated to
franchise the working classes, and he read a letter from

iintelligent elector of the borough of Marylebone, which
ted that the bill was entitled to the support of the work
pi i g classes, because it would add 15,000 of the skilled
tisane of the borough to the constituency. Why then had
t e right hon. gentleman now this dread of the admission
et the working classes to the franehis3 ? He appealed from
t e right hon. gentleman to the right hon. baronet the mem-
r for Hertfordshire (Sir E. B. Lytton). No one would
er forget the eloquent speech uttered by the right hon.
baronet in support of that bill. "We are not likely," the
ght hon. baronet said, " to fear the working man, and for
S part I am proud of the English workman, whether it be
t e simple English peasant with his homely virtues, or the
ore agitated, but amid all his faults that noble human
eing, the skilled mechanic of our manufacturing towns,
ith his thirst for knowledge, and his dreams of some poli-

Jical Utopia quite as rational as that which Plato himself
lr:amed." The right hon. baronet, he presumed from his
Oitings, had a better acquaintance with the working peo•
Jile of this country than the right hon. gentleman, and he
ad no fear of them, and yet they were told that this bill
as rdvolulionary. The right hon. gentleman the member
or Bucks (Mr. Disraeli) spoke against the franchise pro-
iosed, because it created what he called a homogeneous con-
istency. Ile (Mr. James) did not understand the argu-
ent, but the bill of the right hon. gentleman himself pro-
osed a £lO constituency for counties. In conferring the
ranchiso they must have some political status, and he could
of understand the objection unless the bill were deficient
x not having other franchises, and unless the right hon.
entleraan had in his mind some mythical and celestial con-
stituencies that lived in houses not made with hands. He

iuld not revert to the speech of the right hon. member for

roitwich, who omitted no opportunity of having a fling at
etropolitan members. The right hon. baronet related an
imaginary conversation in which a sulky elector of Mars -
ebone told him that he never interfered in the elections of
that borough.
Sir J. PAKINGTON remarked that what the hon. and
learned gentleman was quoting was an extract from a pam-
phlet written by Sir John Walsh.
Mr. E. JAMES—But it was some imaginary conversation
that took place at the sea side.
Sir J. WALSII—A fact.

Mr. E. JAMES—WeII, he said such was the preponder-
ance of the liberal electors that he never troubled himself
to vote at all. Well, perhaps he did not. But might they
not have an imaginary conversation with a liberal elector of
Droitwich, whom they could easily imagine saying that he
never interfered with the elections of Droitwich, because
Sir John Pakington returned the member for Droitwich, and
that it was no use fighting against him ? They might mul-
tiply instances of this kind, and they might take counties,
and ask what chance had a liberal elector in North Essex ?
He would now make one or two observations on the defects
of the measure. He thought the bill was defective on ac-
count of its non-disfranchisement, and on account of its non-
enfranchisement, which was in consequence of the non-
disfranchisement. He thought also the bill was defective
in its not giving a lodger franchise, by which they lost a
great deal of the intellect of the country, which would, to a
certain degree, be a safeguard and balance of the vessel of the
state against what appeared to be too democratic an element.
He thought the bill was defective in hampering the fran-
chise by exacting the payment of rates. The bill, which
pretended to be an adjustment of a great question, was a
mere skeleton bill, because it contained no amended system
of revision and registration, 'which was essential. A great
deal had been said as to the extent to which the bill would
increase the franchise. The noble lord had stated that the
increase of voters in boroughs by admitting £6 householders
would be somewhere between 157,000 and 160,000, and that
he could give them no notion of the increase that would be
made in the county constituencies. He believed that the
noble lord's statement was entirely fallacious, and that
Government was not in possession of the means of affording
to the house and the country anything like a calculation of
the extent of the measure. (Opposition cheers.) Those
cheers came from the opposition side of the house, who of
course would argue from the fact he bad stated that the
measure was of a dangerous character. He derived no such
argument from it, because he had no fear of the extension
of the franchise. He thought, however, it was absolutely
essential in any measure of reform which was to adjust this
great question for a quarter of a century—and he was not
one of those who thought they should be continually having
amended suffrage bills—that they should know the num-
bers they are going to admit to the franchise. The fallacy
of these returns arose from the fact that Government took
the numbers from a return of all male' persons assessed to
parliamentary boroughs, but in conse-
the poor's rate in
quence of the effects of the compounding act, there were
many thousands of persona in boroughs occupying houses
of £6 a year and upwards who were not assessed to the poor
rate, the owner who paid the rate being the person who was
assessed. There was a return which would have given the
noble lord a nearer approximation of the effect of his bill.
That return was moved for by the hon. member for Lam-
beth in August, 1857, and it gave the number of houses
rated in six metropolitan boroughs. Those houses must ot
course be occupied in order to their being rated, and making
the necessary deductions from them they got at the num-
ber of occupiers who would be enfranchised. Take St.
Pancras, where the noble lord said he would merely add 500
to the constituency. In St. Pancras 3,766 £6 tenants would
have the franchise. He was delighted at it. The noble lurl
he believed would be startled at it, though he would profess
to be pleased with it. Ile would now take Finsbury. There
i
were 39,621 houses rated to the relief of the poor n Finsbury
How many of those were under £6 houses ? Not one. The
total number of electors at present was 20,951 ; and accord-
ing to the returns of the Government the estimated increase
would be just 558. (Hear, hear.) Why the idea was ridi-
culous. (Cheers.) Take, again, the Tower Hamlets. The
number of voters now on the register was 28,843 ; and the
increase was estimated at 5,488 ; but the number of £6
houses rated to the poor was no less than 88,327. (Hear.)
The present number of voters in Marylebone was 21,031,
and the number which it was stated would be added to then
by the bill was 406 but the number of rated houses was

. a;lotte„
-Aftelr
r lOr s s-ss
(Hear.y The tdtal estsinated tie
.politan constituencies—Finsb •
estminster, Lambeth, Southwark, and Gs
:,992; but the number of rated £6 houses (deducting 27i
per cent., the deduction made by the Government for in-
sufficient residence, female tenancy, , and the like) was no
less than 109,900. (Loud cheers and Counter cheers.) But
he did not stop at the metropolitan boroughs. He had
caused inquiries
.to be made in a great number of other
towns with eroilar results. For inetance, the Government
calculated - e":"-n of voters at. Blackburn would
be 1;1' , s • Jerk estimated it at 3,796. At
Macclesfissa. A.. s ess cone.dered that there would be 2,760
more new voters than was stated by the Government ; at
Blackburn 2,074 more, and at Ashton nearly 2,000 more.
His Correspondent at this last town, who was a strong sup-
porter cf the right hon. gentleman (Mr. M. Gibson), said
that if the Government had asked for a proper return—viz.,
a return of the nutol er of SI houses—they would have ob-
tained information that might have been depended upon,
but, as it was, their return was nothing but "a series of
the grossest blunders." (Laughter and cheers.) Under the
30th section of the Reform Act the occupier of a house,
the rates for which were paid by his landlord, had nothing
to do but to tender his rates, and he could claim a right to
vote, for doing which considerable facilities were afforded
by the act of Sir W. Clay. It had, moreover, been legally
decided that if a landlord charge I in his rent anything for
rates, even if it were only a shilling, that payment would
insure to give the tenant a qualification ; for as the Reform
Act did not say anything about the rates being paid by the
hand of the tenant, the landloi3 was treated as his agent.
(Hear, hear.) He (the hon. and learned member) now
came to the re-adjustment of the constituencies. The
Government had not had courage to deal with this
question as a great question ought to be dealt with. In his
opinion, if public opinion did not back them enough, they
had better wait till it did, rather than pass a bill which un-
settled a great deal and settled nothing. The public had
certainly expected a more satisfactory measure from the
noble lord, who might be called the parent of parliamentary
reform, and who had taken so great a part in defeating the
bill of her Majesty's late Government. (Hear, hear.) The
bill of 1854 was a much bolder and better measure. In that
bill the noble lord pia eeed to disfranchise 19 nomination
boroughs; and, in alklamobtained the disposal of 63 seats.
Besides, in determinisitti:h seats should be abolished he
was guided by a muchr rules Slum that he had since
adopted, for he took into consideration not merely the num-
ber of the inhabitants, but the number of the present con-
stituency. (Hear.) The noble lord and the Chancellor of
the Exchequer had defended nomination boroughs ; but
their speeches carried the house back to the times of Mr.
Croker. Mr. Croker, who was the creation of a rotten bo-
rough, and who had never ventured to breathe the pure air
of a liberal constituency—(loud opposition laughter)—stood
up to defend Alboicugh. Mr. Croker established a great
reputation under the system of rotten boroughs ; but ho
expired with his system, he was embalmed in the undying
satire of the author of " Coningsby." (Laughter.) Tho
noble lord had revived the argument of Mr. Croker, and
had invoked the great names of Burke and Macaulay. Cer-
tainly the noble lord never made a greater mistake than
when he cited the example of Lord Macaulay. Surely he
must remember Lord Macaulay's own eloquent denuncia-
tion of the system of rotten boroughs, which he said closed
the door to men of talent, and opened to them only a bye -
waY, always low and often filthy through which they had to
creep oil their hands and knees. (Hear.) As for the noble
lord himself, did he not quit Calne and obtain a seat at Leeds
and Edinburgh ? The noble lord would certainly never have
dreamed of being quoted in support of rotten boroughs. (Hear,
hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer had alluded to the
example of Pitt, but what were Pitt's own words ? " I avow
myself the enemy of close toroughs, for they are the strong.
hold of corruption, to which I attribute many of the cala-
mities of the country." The Chancellor of the Exchequer
would nevertheless preserve them as nurseries for states-
men, and as harbours of refuge for them when they were
ostracised by the caprice of larger constituencies. But what
sort of harbours of refuge were Harwich, Ashburton, and
Thetford, or which of them since 1832 had introduced a
great statesman to the house?
An HON. MEMBER—Tiverton.
Mr. JAMES—Tiverton, a nursery I (Laughter.) Surely
it was not an infant statesman who was nursed at Tiverton
(Hear, hear.) The system of disfranchisement which the
noble lord had adopted was a very extraordinary one. For
instance, Tiverton was still to return two members, but it
had only 750 electors ; while Guildford was to lose a seat,
though it had 936. (Opposition cheers.) Again, there was
a borough in which the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) him-
self was supposed to take an interest—Tavistock. It was to
keep its two members, though it had only 467 electors, but
Hertford was to lose a representative, notwithstanding that
it had 803. (Loud cheers.) Once more, Mallon, in which
the Whig interest predominated, and which was to keep
both its members, had only 789 voters, but Malden, which
was to lose one of its seats, had 1,213. (Renewed cheer-
ing.) Lastly, Wycombe was to keep two members with
521 voters, and Dorchester was to lose one with .551.
(Cheers.) The proper mode was not to regard population
lone, but to see which town had in it the largest number
inhabitants likely to grow into voters. However, this at
least might be said for the noble lord's plan it was a most
fortunate one for the Whig boroughs. (Great opposition
cheering.) Further, let the house observe the absence in
this bill of any lodging franchise ; there was nothing but
t£6 rental. But there was a very large body of intern-
;ent persons who lived in apartments, some of them for
;even, eight, and ten years, and earning from £5O to £lOO
t year and more; and they had no vote. (Hear, hear.)
The noble lord would not, it seemed, condescend to the
idoption of what he (Mr. James) might, without adulation,
,ay he thought a most valuable part of the bill of the late
Government—namely, the lodger franchise. They might
stigmatise it a fancy franchise, but it embraced a large and
intellectual portion of the community, which would form
an excellent counterpoise to the large popular element
which was about to be introduced. In the bill of 1854
the noble lord had declared that the payment of rent
was a sufficient test of solvency, and that he would not de-
[nand the payment of rates. But now the noble lord had
changed his principle entirely ; and if a£6 rating franchise
be establishea. with a £lO in counties, let the house only
consider how many of the constituencies would be disfran-
chised in consequence of the non-payment of their rates.
A. bill with such difficulties as these in its way surely could
hardly be called a settlement of the question. But the bill,
they were told, was to go into committee, and what fate
was reserved for it in another place it was impossible to say.
Ile thought, however, that Parliament would pause before
it incurred the deep responsibility of rejecting the bill.
There were a number of persons who were dissatisfied with
it, but who were offering to it no turbulent or factious op-
position ; and both parties in the house, he thought, were
deeply interested in passing some bill to amend the repre-
sentation of the people. Twice had the house been warned
already by the fate of a minister; let them be careful how
they interfered between the people and the obtaining of
their just political rights. With regard to her Majesty's
Government he thought their treatment of this question
had not been satisfactory. They were bold in their com-
mercial policy, whilst in questions of the highest domestic
importance they were feeble. (Cheers from the Opposi-
tion). This session was likely, he thought, to become me-
morable in matters of social and international progress, but
it seemed to him that her Majesty's Goyernment had lost
a great opportunity, and he regretted that they had so far
disappointed the expectations of a forbearing and confiding
people. (Cheers.)

Mr. HARDY agreed with what had been laid down on
this subject in a former debate, that it was incumbent upon
the noble lord to show what evils were to be removed, what
objects were to be secured, and how the Parliament which
was to succeed the present would be better constituted than
that now before them. The right hon. baronet the member
for Radnor boroughs, and the noble viscount, when speaking
of the necessity for a reform bill, entirely repudiated what
had been stated by the noble lord the member for the City,
and the latter, in his speech, had sketched out a scheme
which was wholly at variance with that which was then
before the house. This was the result of the Willis's-rooms
compact, but it seemed that in making that compact the
hon. and learned member for Marylebone had not been con-
sulted, and the wishes of his friends had not been consulted;
but it had been put into the hands of an hon. member who
represented the cabinet out of doors, as their agent, as one
of the hon. member's friends had himself said at Manches-
ter. (Hear, hear.) Of the two hon. gentlemen who had
spoken in favour of the bill, the hon. member for Halifax
had said that it was not a bill which could secure a safe and
satisfactory settlement, but it was intended to relieve the
mass of the people from what they considered to be a sys •
tem of class government. The support of the hon. member
for Birmingham alone rendered this course moot suspicious.
(Cheers and laughter.) The hon. member was bold out of
the house, but cautious in it. Upon what ground did the
hon. gentleman venture to threaten the house with the in-
dignation of twenty-two millions of people? Did he wish to
give the franchise to six millions of adults ? Then where
could he rest ? How could he excuse himself with regard
to the remainder of these twenty-two millions ? (Cheers.)
What did Lord Brougham say with regard to the views of
those who were represented by the hon. member for Bir-
mingham ? He said that if the views of the ultra-free-
traders were carried out, it' £150,000,000 were struck off the
revenue, the army reduced, and the navy brcken up—the
result would be rebellion, civil war, and eventual subjug:l -
tion to such of their neighbours as had not become convex Is
to the true faith. (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Lord
Brougham hid been no insignificant ref,rm?r, but he
could perceive the tendency of all these At
the meeting recently attended by the honourable mem-
ber for Birmingham Mr. Wilson foreshadowed pretty
clearly what future reforms were to do. He said that
this reform would not affect the lawn sleeves of bishops,
nor the robes of peers. Such expressions were little
indications of the manner in which Mr. Wilson would
employ his transcendent influence in urging on
the masses in schemes which were nothing less than
revolutionary. If these great masses were admitted to the
franchise they would be carried away by a sudden enthu-
siasm, or by some demagogue who had obtained influence
over their passions, and in one moment the labour of cen-
turies would be swept away. Mr. Wilson told them, in-
deed, what they might look for at that moment. The radi-
(Continued in our fourth page.)

THE CORNHILL MAGAZINE.
No. 5 (for MAY),
Will be published on SATURDAY, the 28th inst.
Price One Shilling, with Two Illustrations.
CONTENTS.

1 •Framley Parsonage.
Chapter XllL—Delicate Hints.
„ X I V.—Mr. Crawley of Hogglestock.
XV.—Lady Lufton's Ambassador.
2. Campaigning in China.
3. Little Scholars.
4. The Carver's Lesson.
5. William Hogarth, Painter, Engraver, and Philosopher.
Es9ays on the Man, the Work. and the Time. IV. The
Painter's Progress.
6. Written in the Deepdene Album—By Washington Irving.
7. Lovel, the Widower (with an Illustration).
Chapter V. - In which I am stung by a serpent.
8. Studies in Animal Lite.
9. Paterfamilias to the Editor of the "Cornhill Magazine."
10. The Outcast Mother.—By E. J. Bronte.
11. The Portent.— I. Its Legend. (With an Illustration).
12. Roundabout Papers.—No. 3. On Ribbons.
London : Smith, Elder, and Co., 65, Cornhill.

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rraVATRE-ROYAL, HAYMARKET.
Leasee, Mr. J. B. Buckstone.
THIS EVENING, will be performed THE OVERLAND
ROUTE. Messrs. C. Mathews, Buckatone, Compton, Chip-
pendale, Mrs. C. Mathews, Miss Weekes, and Mrs. Wilkins.
After which, a new fairy romance, TIIE PILGRIM OF
OVE.
And THE BOARDING SCHOOL.

VOYAL PRINCESS'S THEATRE.-
Lessee, Mr. A. Harris.
THIS EVENING, to commence with MY WIFE'S
OUT. Mr. Widdicomb and Miss L. Keeley.
Followed by TILE FOOL'S REVENGE. BertuCcio, a
Jester, Mr. Phelps.
To conclude with the extravaganza of THE SYLPIIIDE.
Miss C. Leclercq, Miss Louise Keeley, Miss Helen Howard,
Miss-Rose Leclercq, Mr. Shore, Mr. Saker, and Mr. Frank
Matthews,