The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-14 00:00:00

combined if passible with such arrangements as might be red
cognised by the de facto governments—by the various
powers of Europe, especially by France. Well, sir, I had a
message from Count Walewski, through Lord Cowley, that he
hoped I would endeavour tepersuade the Tuscan official agent,
who was coming here after the war, to induce the provisional
government of Tuscany to be contented with the recall of the
son of the Grand Duke Leopold, with the establishment of
a constitution in Tuscany, with an Italian ministry, with
Italian colours. (Hear.) The agent who came to this
country was a person of as high a mind, of as much inte-
grity, and of as much disinterestedness as I ever knew a
man to be. (Hear.) When he came to speak to me upon
the subject I represented to him that the son of the Grand
Duke was considered to be a person of cultivated mind, of
liberal disposition in politics, and that he was likely, if
called to rule over Tuscany, to govern it upon constitutional
principles. He told me it would be impossible that the
Tuscans could again receive the son of the Grand Duke
Leopold. I said to him, "Why yourself were the person,
when you were called upon by the Grand Duke Leopold to
form a ministry, you were the person to recommend that
the Archduke Ferdinand should succeed, and be the Grand
Duke of Tuscany." He said, "That was perfectly true;
but his conduct since then had been of such a nature as to
entirely alienate the affections of the people. He went to
Modena at the time of the battle of Magenta, and it was ar-
ranged that if the battle should be decided in favour of the
Austrians, he was to marsh with a portion of the Austrian
army, and take possession of Florence and Tuscany in
virtue of his command of that Austrian force. Then, again,
at the battle of Solferino ho was in the army of the Emperor
lof Austria. lie had then decided to take his part with
Austria against Italy, and wo were determined to fight the
battle of Italy against Austria." I must confess that that
seemed to me a reasonable objection to the restoration of the
Archduke Ferdinand. At a later period there was a ques-
tion of another combination, and I was informed by Lord
Cowley that he thought that combination might be one
with which the Emperor of the French would be content,
and that he would propose it to Austria. On the other
hand, I asked Lord Loftus if he thought that if such a pro-
position were made to Austria it would be adopted, and.
that proposal was for the formation of a kingdom in Central
Italy. There is a despatch on the table relative to
that subject, but it is quite impossible for me, although
I might entertain such a proposition—although
I might say that Great Britain would be content with it—
to suggest any proposition with which the people of Italy
themselves would not be satisfied. Well, I took means to
ascertain the opinions of the leading people of Italy, and I
was informed by men who knew, them intimately—ltalians
and Englieh—that flees, waula-nat airree_to the ereetion of
a kingdom in Central Italy. Their position was this :
they said it was allowable to the Emperor of the French,
if he did not wish to carry on the war any further, to make
peace at Villafranca, and to confirm that peace at Zurich,
but they were bound to consider in what state Italy would
be left if the conquest of the French h proceedel..as far
as the Adriatic, and if the kingdom • Sardinia had' re-
ceived not only Lombardy but Venet :; then they would
have been contented with a kingdom inCentral Italy, and
also contented to take back the Archduke Ferdinand as the
Grand Duke of Tuscany. But in their present position it
is obvious that tha kingdom of Sardinia, divided from the
Romagnas and divided from Tuscany, would be so weak,
that having the fortresses of the Mincio constantly frown-
ing upon her and menacing her, it would be quite impos -
sible for her to maintain her independence. (Hear.) He,
therefore, was of opinion that nothing but a strong king-
dom of Sardinia, strengthened by the accession of the Ito-
magnas, Parma, Modena, and Tuscany would be sufficient
Ito secure the independence of Italy. In the same way, as
we had offered no opposition to the restoration of the Grand
Duke, we exhibited no hostility to the establishment of a
kingdom of Central Italy. But our whole conduct was based
not upon annexation, but on the principle of allowing the
people of Central Italy to form a Government for themselves
and after three centuries of servitude and oppression to
assert their independence, whether of Austria, or of France,
or of any other power. .(Cheers.) When, therefore, we found
that neither a restoration nor a kingdom of Central Italy
would be accepted as an arrangement, when we knew like- .
wise thatthe Emperor of the French had declared over and
over again that no force should be Omployed to impose any
particular form of government on the people of Tuscany,
we could only come to the conclusion that if the people of
Central Italy were to have their own way and please them-
selves, the annexation to Sardinia was the plan which they
would most certainly set up. It was our wish, being desi-
rous that the independence of Italy should be secured, that
they should be allowed if they thought proper, by a new vote
or otherwise, to assert again their annexation to Sardinia,
and that if the King of Sardinia accepted the act, thecoun-
tries thus united should become one kingdom. The next
accusation is, that for a long time I was acquainted by pri-
vate letters and otherwise of the intentions of the Emperor
of the French, if a kingdons of Northern and Central Italy
were formed, to ask for the annexation of Savoy, and that
I made no sort of objection against that course until the end
of January. Now this accusation rests merely on the con-
fusion o£ dates, for if any one consults the papers, he will
find that the very strongest objections I made—pushed per-
haps to extremes—were made on the sth July. I stated that
what I conceived might be the consequence of the persever-
ance of the Emperor of the French in any plan for annexa-
tion, and what distrust such perseverance would produce.
Well, no doubt Count Walewski said, and said three or four
times, to Lord Cowley, in the first place that the annexation
of Tuscany to Sardinia was not possible, that that was an
arrangement which could never be permitted, and he hinted
more than once—l think it appears in the despatch—that
probably if that plan was persisted in, although the French
army would not march into Tuscany, no opposition would
be made to the march of the Austrian army thither, with a
view of restoring the Grand Duke. Therefore, in his view
of the case no such event was probable. At another time
he stated that a kingdom of Central Italy might possibly
be formed, but at no time was he willing to have such
an annexation as the people of Central Italy desired,
Therefore, it would seem that in his eyes the annexa-
lion of Savoy was an improbable contingency, and that
it would not be necessary for me to say to Lord Cowley
—" Supposing the Grant Duke is not restored, suppos-

ing that no kingdom of Centrely Italy is formed, and
supposing that the annexation, which Count Walewaki
thought impossible, takes place, then I desire you
to repeat in December the protests which you made in July."
It seemed to me that such a protest would be not only un-
necessary, but absurd. If Lord Cowley wished for instruc-
tions, he would have, no doubt, asked for them in a de-
spatch; but, as we were willing that the people of Italy
should follow their own way to independence, it was not
necessary to write despatches. In January the question
assumed another shape, and we were asked by Switeerland
what we intended to de. Articles appeared in several of the
French papers which indicated that a project was on foot
fortho annexationof Savoy, and then we repeated at the end
of January in terms as strong, if not stronger, than those
we had used in July, the objections that are felt, and our
fear of the distrust the proposal would create. In fact on
this question we never concealed • our feelings or opinions
from the Emperor of the French ; we never led him to T
The right
hogeh
be-
lieve that this was a project which would not meet with
objection,n.
iiat
our
but
objections w e statedw er
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another accusation, which was that in making our commu-
nication to Vienna, Berlin, and St. Petersburg with respect
to the four propositions; we did not say that if Sardinia an-
nexed Tuscany and the Romagna, in that case the Empe-
ror of the French would propose to take Savoy. We could
not properly do that, because from France the proposition
was never made, no consent was ever asked. Prince Gort-
schakoff said, " I am glad to find that I need not make any
objection to these propositions, because they are not made."
It would have been not only absurd, but improper, for us to
say, " There is a proposition of the French Government, if
this annexation takes place, which may be brought forward;
we warn you against it." It was for the French Govern-
ment to mako these propositions to foreign Powers, and not
for us to suggest them. What we did was to make a pro-
position to the Government of the French Emperor that if
the people, by a new vote in their provinces and states,
should declare in favour of annexation, we would not
ask the King of Sardinia to abstain any longer from
sending his troops into the country. We made that pro-
position to France, and there was no mistake on our part
as to what we wanted to do. These are our explanations
as to these various points; but then there is another ques-
tion which is an aggravation of all the rest ; and my noble
friend who sits near me is liable to the same reproach?
namely, that we were so zealous for the independence of
Italy through some chimerical views of our own, that we
entirely neglected other countries. I confess that Ido not
feel that as a very heavy accusation; I recollect in 1856,
Lord Clarendon, with Count Walewaki, at the conference of
Paris, brought forward the question of Italy; and it will be
remembered that that was a conference assembled for a
totally different purr ose, nainely,!to settle the peace between
Russia on the one hand, and France, Great Britain, Sar-
dinia, and Turkey on the other. Italy had no connexion
with the matter, and yet Lord Clarendon thought the ques-
tion of such pressing importance, and so interesting to
and so menacing to the continuance of
Europe,peace, that
he stated his views in the conference. He pointed out that
the continued occupation of Rome and of Bologna by f • foreign
troops was unprecedented, that it destroyed the indepen-
dence of those countries, threatened revolution, and there-
by imperilled the peace of Europe. He pointed out the state
of the government of the Two Sicilies, and the mal-admi • -
tration of justice there, and he asked the conference thus
representing the various great Powers to take measures to
remedy such a state of things. It would have been happy
if the Austrian Government had taken that warning—
(hear, hear)—but they were determined to continue their
occupation of Bologna, and to continue their government of
Lombardy in the same manner as before. We know what
were the consequences—war within three years between
those two great powers who occupied different portions of
Italy broke out, and they contended in arms as to whieh
should rule in Italy. We know likewise that after the peace
of Zurich the appearance of Italy was still threatening. The
world was informed from time to time, of the threats of Aus-
tria to appear against the troops of Sardinia, and on the side
of France of au advance into that country. We could not
think that any settlement of Italy which restored the
Grand Duke or the Pope by force of arms would cone
duce to a lasting settlement, We felt, therefore: