The Sun.
London, England, 1860-05-02 00:00:00

NEWSPAPER

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creditable it is to them. (Hear, hear.) They ~. x.. 7., ~ 9_,-1-
are doing iill-in the merchant service, and we clortiNcani A S
to be sent out to any of your little wars to China or the '
River Plate, or any of those places where you are always
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carrying on some small hostilities; but when it comes to a . .
regular European war we'll take our share in it with any
man." (Hear, hear.) Taking all those things together we
have a total reserve of about 1,1,850 men, and, considering
they are all good men, that is not a force to be despised.
The noble and learned lord says we ought to have enrolled a
larger number of reserve men ; and I have no doubt that,
if we had gone about offering bounties to any sort of men,
we should have made a much larger show on paper than we •
do at present. But that would have been a very injudicious
course in the long run. The right course was to begin well, -
and to look to efficiency as well as to numbers. (Hear, hear.)
I am told that, if we had taken the worst class of men, the
best class of men would never have joined. The course we
have taken has two advantages—it does not involve so large
an expenditure as if we had taken men of all classes; and it
give us the nucleus of a valuable force hereafter. The
noble and learned lord talked with o total disregard of econo-
mical considerations ; and, if we are to establish a force
which is to last, we must pay some attention to economy.
If we were to establish it on an extravagant and wasteful
system Parliament would very soon be for putting it down
again. What the country wants is a force that shall grow
and be efficient, and the cost of which will not be exces-
sive. I believe by the measures we have taken we shall
attain that result. The noble and learned lord said we could
not expect nien to join for £6 a year. I have heard that
before. Suppose you give a man £lO or £l5 a year. He
will never join your navy, because he will be much better
in the Naval Reserve with £l5 a year, and picking up odd
money in any way he can. You ought to give a man just
enough to be a tie upon him, but still compelling him t
continue his service in the mercantile marine, qualifying
himself for service in the navy. It has been said that we
should give as much as £2O a year. If we did so the-men
_would live ashore, and in 0 few years they wouldsba_ss set,
Of drunken fellows, unfit to serve their country at sea. The
commission recommended £5. We raised the sum to £6,
but I had great doubts about it, and it was only after con-
sultation with experienced and competent persons that I
thought on the whole £6 would be a better sum. (Hear.)
There is another body to which the noble and learned lord
has not referred, but which I consider far the most impor-
tant part of the force—l mean the boys. What we want
is to bring in boys to serve in the navy. A boy who has
been a couple of years at sea is a better person for your ser-
vice than almost any man you can obtain from the mercan-
tile marine. In 1855, which was a year of war, we entered
4,000 first and second class boys ; in 1856 we entered 3,000;
in 1857, 1,800; in 1858, 1,690 ; and in 1859, 5,147. (Hear.)
There are 8,200 first and second class boys now serving in
our ships. It must always be borne in mind that in train •
ing boys for our ships the proportion of boys must have
some reference to the proportion of men, and that therefore
we must take in only such a number of boys as can be ab-
sorbed in the fleet. But we have not yet reached that point,
and in the estimates for the present year, besides the 11,000
excess that I have of men over the estimates of last year,
there is an addition of 2,000 boys. We are, therefore, train-
ing more boys for the navy. I think that is a very wise
course. Captains just returned from soa have told me that
the boys are the best sailors in the navy, and that we can-
not have too many of them. Accordingly, I have had some
vessels prepared, and am having more prepared, for the
purpose of training boys. (Hear.) The noble and learned
lord has referred to a kind of compulsory service. I believe
that if anything could make your navy unpopular, and
cripple your efficient force afloat, it would be the attempt
to establish a compulsory service. (Hear.) The noble and
learned lord adverted to another point, which he seemed to
think the root of all the evils he pointed out. Ido not
think, however, it is such a great misfortune that the First
Lord should not be a professional seaman. I nay refer the
noble and learned lord to a speech suede by the late Sir
Robert Peel in which he showed the House of Commons
what bola our naval First Lords when we had them.
lie described how Lord Howe had been hunted
lawn, how Koppel had been treated, what had
become of St. Vincent. Lord Howe was absolutely hunted
out'of his place, and I do not think Lord St. Vincent was:
a very successful First Lord. We cannot, in fact, make a
remarkably good show of our naval First Lords. After all,
however, the question is not between civilians and seamen.
In a Parliamentary Government the Board of Admiralty
must be properly represented in Parliament. If you have
got a good naval officer in Parliament I see no reason why
he should not bo made First Lord, but I do not think it is
absolutely necessary that the First Lord should be a profes-
sional sailor. Anybody who knows what the details of the
Admiralty are, how many questions there are which have
nothing to do with service afloat, must admit that for the
administration of the navy it is not essential that a man
should have a naval education. (Hear, bear.) I agre e with
the noble and learned lord that it is a misfortune there
should be such constant changes in the Board, but that evil
is not now so great as it was formerly, When-I name into - -
office I found a gallant admiral there who had been one o
the Board in the time of the noble earl opposite, and I think
it is always desirable to retain the servicesof some members
of the Board. But there is also an advantage iba some
change. What is now done at the Horse Guards, 1 vith re-
spect to a compulsory retirement at the end of five ;years, is
done in an indirect way at the Admiralty. You change
some of your men and retain others; there is an iOsfusion
of fresh blood, and other:mcmbers of the profession have an
opportunity of serving in the Admiralty, where they (acquire
knowledge which makes them better officers when e hey re-
turn to sea. (Hear.) The noble and learned lord lies not
referred to block ships, but it has been frequently asked in
another place " Why do you keep block ships in different
harbours ?" I admit they are useless for the purpc foe of p-
ing to sea, but for the purpose of drilling men and! as bat-
teries to guard the mouth of the rivers, they arc us eful ves-
sels. If we were to condemn them, and send theist back to
the dockyards, they would be stripped, become hulks, snad
not worth refitting again. I think it is desirable, the: a-
fore, to keep them up as long as they can be turned to n
useful purpose. Some of them are still good and eftl',-
eient batteries, and, if their services wore required.:,
would be able to defend the mouth of our rivers. (Hear',
hear.) I shall not follow the noble and learned lord int o
other questions upon which he touched. We may tai it
about them more conveniently when we come to consid ev
the budget. Let us not mix up anything of party with the is
question. What we all want is, that our navy should 1 air
powerful. It may be that difficult times are coming, as .d
we ought to be prepared for them. Let no consideration ,of
party, or of Admiralties, or of Governments prevent !us
from doing whatever is necessary to render our nazi -y
efficient. That, I think, is the right course to be taken, a u d
it is one in which I hope and believe all parties will c°-
operate together for the common good. (Cheers.)
The Earl of HARD WICKE said the noble, duke had A
fully answered the speech of the noble and learned lord, th
he had left very little for him to say. He was glad tha t
his noble friend had brought this question before their 10rd....
ships; but he must :remind him that he himself had not:
neglected his duty, but had early in the session called the
attention of the noble duke to the state of the naval reserves.
It was true that for a certain period after the peace of 1815
the navy was greatly neglects-5, and that state of things
continued until the Russian vsar, when the condition of c ur
fleet in the Baltic was perrreetly lamentable. It ought n ot,
however, to be forgotten that our power in that sea, such as
it was, was mainly ereemd by the Duke of Northumberlas d,
who during the short time bre held the office of First Lo rd
of the Admiralty, under the Government of his noble fries sd
near him (Earl Derby), con structed no less than nine sail. of
heavy screw ships. After the conclusion of the Russi, an
war, the condition of the rag vy fell off again, until a peri, od
arrived when the country was aroused to a sense of i tEI
danger. It happened that, his noble friend near him wa $
again in office, and during the short tine,a that he continues I
in power the British fleet was, by great exertions and by the
exercise of true economy—(hear, f.rom Lord Lyndhurst)—
increased by 14 sail of the lin.e, wit. h eight or nine more ships
upon the stocks nearly ready fo r launching. A Chan el
fleet of considerable power was formed, the Mediterranean
fleet was strengthened, and B,oc ,0 seamen and 2,000 marine/
A-1"
were added to the navy. I
- h attention had been ex
by the statements as to the sus ,posed facilities possessed
biY,
the French for manning their navy; and in consequence ins
noble friend appointed a C a :insmission to inquire whether
something could not be do as to increase our power in that
respect. Ho was, he conf
,ess ed, rather surprised that mea-
sures into effect the
recommendations were
en notdationesaorfliethr eat'', ,Cost
ell isfsoironcar. rly'hilaegreport was pre-
sented in May, 1859, an AII cc ,ording to the statement oft the
noble duke, it was not, trail '.:March last that he really com-
menced the formation of a i a serve farce. The object of the
Commission was to, establish .a permamcnt reserve to be used
in case of emergency, and that reserve they proposed to
found upon tb.c training ofl zoys in sehoolships. The recep-
tion of adults was only an intermediate process, by which
they hoped to relieve the no ivy from the immediate pressure
of the want of an reserve a t all, The accounts received as
to the progress of the resery ewe re encouraging, and he be-
lieved that if it once took ; iv/ th seamen, we should soon
have a very considerable n' ainb er of men ready to serve at
the call of the country. I io oz sly regretted that so long an
interval. was allowed. 'to el apso ' between the presentation of
the report of the Cr anzadFition. ; and the setting seriously to
work to form the: %reserve. Es also regretted that the Go-
, arernment had nr ,t proposed to.. raise 5,000 marines in addi-
tion to the 1510fJO which fart aed the standard force. The
marines werosa most useful' be dy
ship had to bE sent to sea in a li ea tergency, by putting on
have a trained beard of her :50 marines tb ,ey u 'ottiet.,
artillery-
man to each gun, who, w ith tile as
as might be picked up for? service, , shitance of such seamen
of men ; and if a 50-gun
. tolerably good action. With reg ss sl to the coastguard,t
the commissioners I lad fount I that the strength
of this force was in at/ft:relent i '.or the due
protection,
that it.
N Vould be able to fight
of the revenue, and th ey had come
ought to bo raised to a total of 12,
Kingdom. In the present unca.sinet s which prevailed
be wise to raise
the state of Europe, he thought it would
ecially as the.
the Coastguard to that standard, 1 aoreo
oeosp, naistetda,
number of the men already stood at .
to the
cn conclusionfooravtctacjeoile.udd
in g t 0
the statute book. In ordinary timea
to maintain. the Coastguard service as a.
for honourable seamen ; but, under ez it°nnlliechet
resting
-neg7pNlvaeclle
e increased to 12, o
the force should be extended. If it wet
(Continued in our fourt4 page')

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