The Sun.
London, England, 1860-02-17 00:00:00

gency as a war with 3. ?,ngland. It. was, however, generally
agreed there that with, out a compulsory system it would be
impossible to supply in en with the required rapidity. With-
out these means it was quite clear that we could only have
recourse to rewards an d prizes as temptations to men to
join the service. Thus the expenditure for the manning of
our navy must necessal rily be very large. Even the coast
-volunteer movement ha d not been in all respects success-
ful. He quite agreed with honourable members who had
spoken of the advantaes which both the merchant service
and the royal navy would derive from the establishment of
school ships. They would in all probability take the place
of the old apprentice system. He should hail with pleasure
any schema that would unite the mercantile service with
the navy, being satisfied that the naval service would be
greatly the gainer. As a body, naval officers were unani-
mous in their desire to abolish corporal punishment, but it
was essential that the power of inflicting it should be re-
tained. He had known instances,, when on service in
China, where nothing could have been effectually substi-
tuted for instant corporal punishment.
Mr. BENTINCK said it was impossible to overrate the
importance of this question. The home was about midway
in the process of voting 13 millions for naval purposes ; and
in the event, which he would not at all anticipate, of an
unfortunate commencement of a naval war, the whole of
that 13 millions, unless we had a reserve, would be wasted.
They were told that two of the block-ships had been re-
moved, why not remove the whole of them ? (Hear, hear.)
He believed that the house would always vote any amount
that was shown to be necessary for naval purposes. He
denied that the house was to blame for the unwise
economy of former years ; the blame was with
those who occupied the Treasury bench at the time, in not
asking for what was necessary. He could recall no instance
of any such proposal being refused by the house. The sys-
tem of our naval administration was thoroughly rotten. At
the head of the Admiralty it was customary to place some
distinguished public man, in no way conversant with the
details and business of the office, and the men that were so
conversant had not a sufficient degree of responsibility to
induce them to force their opinions upon their chief. It was
not often that they had as secretary to the board so able
and distinguished a man as the noble and gallant lord op-
posite. That was a great improvement, and a step in the
right direction. Before long he hoped to see a thorough
reconstruction of the board. Till that was done it would
be impossible to have proper economy in the dockyards. He
thought that the system of examination might be carried
too far in respect to the navy. Plenty of boys might be
found who could read and write, but they wanted them to
do other things on board ship. They had had instances in
that house of the moat brilliant oratorical powers, the pos-
sessors of which would not have been able to pass a very
searching examination. (A laugh.)
Admiral WALCOTT said that formerly the navy was
much indebted to the coasting trade for a supply of mon, and
they were some of the best. That supply was now cut off,
but he was under no alarm. He was confident that, under
any adverse circumstances whatever, the navy of England
would be found equal to the emergency. The total number
of British seamen in the merchant service, exclusive of ap-
prentices, boys, firemen, stokeist and others, was 162,012,
and of foreign seamen 14,375, giving a total of 176,387, ex-
clusive of the 20,000 masters. Could those men be encou-
raged to enter into the service in the way proposed very great
good would result. It was necessary for the effective man-
ning of our navy that from 2,000 to 4,000 boys should be
enlisted annually at the mercantile ports. (Hear, hear.)
Great care would be required in the selection of officers to
train those boys. Ono main reason why the navy did not
attract men from the mercantile service was that they had no
chance of promotion. The whole of the 20,000 masters,
and most of the 66,000 able seamen, were looking to com-
mand ships. Another thing was, they did not like to be five
years on one station. He hoped that more frequent changes
would be made. From 1790 to 1815, when we had had 1,000
men-of-war, it was necessary to have a commensurate num-
ber of officers ; and there were numbers of them living now,
who ought to have been dead, to make way for younger men ;
bat that could not bo helped. (A laugh.) Another mistake
had been that of appointing the same officers to ships after
ships, while other men were kept on shore, and never em-
ployed at all. (Hear.) The result was that old officers
got broken-hearted, after waiting 25 years, and seeing young
men put over their heads. Let the service be satisfied that
the only road to employment and promotion was by zeal,
promptitude, and perseverance in their profession, and by
acquiring a practical knowledge of it. If they would only
do that, they might rely on it the navy would never be want-
ing men ; it would be an honour to the country and the Go-
vernment that proposed such a regulation. Patronage had
been the bane of the navy over since he knew the profession.
Men who had thrown all their energies into the profession,
after being 20 years in it, had had to retire on their half-pay.
He would not have the recruiting confined to the 2,000 boys.
Let the ships go to every mercantile port, with officers such
as he had mentioned, and we should soon have one of the
finest and most effective navies in the world. He deprecated
these continual complaints night after night, sending it out
to the world that we had no efficient navy. He declare 1 that
we had an efficient navy at the present moment; and let net
the country feel any apprehension about it. They might de-
pend upon it the British navy would do all that it ever had
done, and that no vessel would ever leave port which would
net bring additional lustre to our flag. (Hear.)
Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR said that though the Govern-
ment offered no opposition t o this motion, his inference from
all the remarks of the noble lord was that they would do no-
thing towards carrying it into effect in the present session.
The chief recommendation made by the commission was that
relating to the establishment of school ships—thus providing
a regular source and supplp for the future recruiting of the
navy. Captain Ingledew and Captain Vincent had given
the clearest testimony as to the importance of that recom-
mendation, stating that the merchant service would hail
the re-establishment of these training ships with delight,
believing that the class of apprentices would thereby be im-
proved. Only last night he had been present at a meeting
at Southampton, called for the purpose of memorialising
the Government to place one of these training school-ships
in Southampton Water. The expression in favour of the
proposal was perfectly unanimous, and they stated that
they would join heartily with the Government in the ex-
pense. Captain Sullivan's estimate of the cost of one of
these ships for 200 lads was £4,000, including £lOO for a
chaplain. Surely it was a miserable and paltry economy if
the Government did not mile manfully forward and ask
the house to vote £48,000 for twelve of these ships. The
plan which Captain Sullivan proposed was to take boys of
12 or 13 yerrs of age for a year, then to apprentice them to
the merchant service; at the end of their fire years to let
them serve for two years in a vessel of the royal navy, and
then to bind themselves to enter at any time into the Royal
Navy Volunteers, so as to be called on at any time when
war menaced. He further recommended that the patronage
of the Government in the customs arid the excise should be
extended to seamen.
Sir C. NAPIER replied. He could assure the noble lord
that he had made no mistake about the order to take up men
as stragglers, and he could further assure him that it was a
cause of great dissatisfaction. The sooner such a nefarious
order was withdrawn the better. He believed the hon. mem-
ber for Portsmouth was mistaken with regard to the hulks,
and that these ships were done away with. If the Govern-
ment patronage was extended usefully amongst seamen, it
would very much contribute to bring men into the navy and
to make it popular. If the noble lord did not promise him
that he would remove the block ships and substitute efficient
ships for them, he shbuld divide the house on his motion.
Ho awaited the noble lord's answer. (Laughter.)
The question was then put and carried without a division.
Sir C. NAPIER—The "ayes" have it. (Laughter.)
The SP EMEER—The house was unanimous. (Laughter.)
FLOGGING IN THE ARMY AND NAVY.
Mr. WILLIAMS, in rising to call the attention of the
house to flogging in the army and navy, said the system
was most injurious to those services because it prevented re-
spectable men from joining them. Upon their soldiers and
sailors the country depended for protection, for fame, and
for renown ; and yet they were treated worse than any class
of persons in society—worse even than felons. Those mis-
creants only who threatened the life of the Queen were sub-
jected to the lash, and it was on the same footing with that
class of persons that they put their soldiers and sailors.
(Hear, hear.) It reflected disgrace and discredit on the
country that such a system should be allowed to exist.
Some years ago the hon. and gallant member for Westmin-
ster gave evidence against the system as being totally use-
less, and because it prevented respectable men from enter-
ing the service. Officers were influenced in favour of this
mode of punishment, as the recorder and judges were when
a more severe criminal code existed. But the apprehensions
which they expressed at any relaxation of the criminal code
were found by experience to be vain. So he believed it
would be if the punishment of flogging was abolished in
the army and navy. In former times the maximum num-
ber of lashes was 1,000. That was reduced to 300; and
it was afterwards reduced by the Duke of Wellington,
much to his credit, to 50. He would ask any officer if dis-
cipline was found to be destroyed in consequence of that
relaxation ? He should not disgust the house by going
into the details of these floggings, but there was one case
which was brought ao prominently before the eye of the
public that he would be pardoned for referring to it. He
alluded tooth* cal* which occurred not long since in Wool-
wich, where a man who was suffering from boils on his
back, was flogged, and put in such torture that officers and
men swooned away at the sickening spectacle, whilst others
stopped their ears and shut their eyes lest they, too, should
become unnerved. They called themselves Christians, but
was not such an exhibition quite contrary to the very spirit
of Christianity ? Was it not unexampled and contrary to
every human feeling to flog a poor creature with his back
covered with boils ? (Hear' hear.) Some years ago Mr.
Wakley stated in that house that the effect of flogging on
men of a nervous temperament was to produce fatal diseases
—most commonly consumption. They were obliged to
abolish flogging for the sepoys, and yet they treated in this
cruel and inhuman manner men who were equal to a dozen
sepoys. The Duke of Cambridge, much to his honour and
credit, made a further attempt to put down the system, but
he wished to see it abolished altogether. In 1847, there
were only 42 men flogged in the army, the number of lashes
they received 2,200. In 1852, 45 men were flogged, receiv-
ing 2,150 lashes. In /848, 218 men were flogged, receivino-
-9,338 lashes. Thus it appeared that the system was on the
increase in the army. He now turned to the navy. The
punishment in the army was mercy itself compared with
that in the navy. The cat was heavier in the navy ; it was
wielded in a different manner [the hon. gentleman showed
how] ; and it was admitted that 50 lashes in the navy were
equivalent to 150 in the army. The maximum punishment
was the flogging round the fleet, from which he believed a
man rarely recovered ; and it was a common)saying that it
would be far less cruel to string up the criminal at the yard-
arm at once. He (Mr. Williams) was sorry to say that
flogging had also of late increased in the navy. Tn 1852 the
number of men punished was 578, and they received 17,570
lashes ; whereas, in 1858, 997 men received 32,420 leshes.
He believed that the comparative publicity of the punish-
ments inflicted on soldiers operated as a great check upon
the revival of the practice ; and it was a fact that though
there were more soldiers than sailors, the former received in
1858 no fewer than 23,000 lashes less than the latter.• He
was glad to see that the Admiraltyhadfollowed the excellent
example which had been set them by the Duke of Cambridge.
The offence for which men were oftenest flogged on board
her Majesty's ships was, singularly enough, drunkenness;
but it surely required nothing but the most ordinary com-
mon sense to put a stop to that. It would only bo necessary
to allow any man who did not want to drink his grog the
full value of it, and to punish the selling of it to a comra le
by two or three months' deprivation of grog altogether. By
such it simple remedy as that they would almost entirely
put an end to drunkenness, and with it more than half the
punishment of flogging. (Hear, hear.) A dread fulbcaa.d sobheaend
occurred within the last few months. A sailor
found guilty by a court-martial of insubordination approach-
ing to mutiny,
his offence having been putting his head out
of the poi thole of the ship to which he belonged, caling out
o"tLaabdosl AlVilelahtatdheaylsoddidonoen bsonolaertdhinthgetoLlihffeey,sh
boaatuswd
arionll.
Such was his crime, and for it he was ordered to receive 50
lashes. Now, if he had been sober when ho had made use
of the words imputed to him there could be no doubt that
he would have deserved that to which he was sentenced ; but
it was clear that the poor creature was drunk at the time,
The scene which occurred at the punishment was described
in a local paper of very moderate polities, the Plymouth
Journal, which stated that the boatswain, vrho had been
insulted by the culprit, was seen preparing to give him the
first dozen lashes, the excitement of the dockyard labourers