The Sun.
London, England, 1860-05-02 00:00:00

seamen, as recommended by the commission, ready to be
placed in efficient ships at the several ports, instead of the
present block ships, thus constituting a reserve of ten sail
of the line, ready for any emergency ; that th e number of naval
volunteers, now under 1,000, should be completed as soon as
possible, and the other recommendations of the commission
complied with ; and the house is also of oi.inion that the
bounty for able seamen ought not to have ':, en lowered till
the nnmber wanted was complete. The I on. and gallant
admiral recapitulated the arguments which he has so often
of late sought to impress upon the house with reference to
the manning of the navy and the providing of an efficient
reserve. He thought the short-service pension men ought
to be allowed to enter the new corps ; and that it would be
prudent in the Admiralty to make it worth the while of
sailors who were entitled to the pension to come forward
and claim it. A great deal might be done to prevent the
frequent breakings of leave, and the discontent which so
often prevailed. Let the Admiralty give orders that when-
ever a ship came into port the men should be paid their
wages; or at least such part of it as they might choose to
ask for, and should be allowed at once to go on shore.
They did not like to be kept on board with their money:in
their pockets. They were often called reckless, but it was
the Government system that made them so. When the
army was paid once a month there was much more de-
bauchery amongst the troops than there was now that
they received their pay daily. In former days he had
seen seamen receive thirty or forty or even fifty pounds
the day before, or on the very day they sailed. He had
even known them to throw their money overboard, be-
cause they did not know what to do with it. (A laugh.)
During the two years he commanded the Channel fleet
there had been no discontent, because whenever he came to
port he did not let his men go on leave by driblets of 20 or
30 per cent., but he let a whole watch go at once, and for
forty-eight hours. No wonder when one captain let a
whole watch out on leave, and another only gave a similar
privilege to 30 per cent. of his crew, that there was discon-
tent. He (the gallant admiral) had been charged by the
noble lord (Lord C. Paget) with causing dissatisfaction
among themen ; but he had not caused so much as the noble
lord. On the contrary, hardly any improvement had of late
years been effected that did not originate with him (Sir C.
Napier) ; and it had generally taken the Admiralty a quar-
ter of a century to carry it into effect. The noble lord had
done what no secretary of the Admiralty, whether in the ser-
vice or a civilian, had ever done before him—he had said that
corporal punishment should be abolished. He (Sir C.
Napier) had always contended that it was impossible at once
to put an end to it ; and he had stated as much to his con-
stituents, though they hooted him for it. The contrary de-
claration of the noble lord had tended to produce more dis-
content than anything which he (Sir C. Napier) had done.
What he had always laboured to effect was to improve the
condition of the seamen; satisfied as he was that that was
the true policy. The noble lord's speech had been hawked
and placarded about the seaports, but it had only been laughed
at. Seamen were told that they were noble, min, jolly fellows,
only they were so suspicious, and above all so suspicious of
the Admiralty. If that was so, what was the use of telling
them that the Channel fleet was complete, when they knew
perfectly well that neither the fleet nor the reserve was any-
thing like complete ? What possible effect could it have b_ t
to make them think that the board were again trying to
bamboozle them, and so to increase their suspicions ? He
thought that the regulations of the Government, with re-
gard to the pensions of warrant officers, were such as were
disgraceful to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. His hon.
friend the member for Portsmouth and himself were con-
stantly receiving letters from the widows of warrant officers
complaining that whilst if a man died in 1859 his widow
received no pension, yet if he did on the Ist of January,
1860, the widow received a pension. He next came to
the case of the naval coast volunteers, upon whom the
' report said no great reliance could be placed. But there
was a method of making these naval coast volunteers useful.
There were several blockships along the coast which were
totally unfit to join the fleet. Out of these coast blockships
he would take the masts, yards, &c,, and allow the volun-
teers to practice on board of them, so that in case of an emer-
gency they might be able to make them a place of rendez-
vous. He also proposed that these ships should be called by
the names of the ports where they were
,lying; thus the
volunteers could say they belonged to a particular vessel,
and the system would tend to combination amongst the vari-
ous members of the body. He then came to the question of
the Merchant Seamen's Fund. He would net weary the
house by reading what the report said on this subject; but
he must observe he did not find that any steps were taken
for the raising and regulating of this fund. Another recom-
mendation of the commissioners was that the right of ad-
mission to the hospitals should be held out to seamen.
But before they talked about admission into Greenwich
Hospital, the hospital must be reformed. A commission had
lately sat on the subject, and whether the Government were
ashamed or not of the report, he (Sir C. Napier) did not
know. At any rate it had not yet appeared. The coast-
guard reserve was no doubt a great relief to the navy, pro
viding as it did a sort of retiring service for seamen, with
the privilege of living on shore. But there were various
other things which might be done at the same time. There
were places in the Custom-house, as those of tide-waiters,
occupations on board lighters in the dockyards, and others,
the names of which. he did, not know, which ought to be
reserved for men who had served in the navy. He now
wished to speak of the great propriety, when a ship
reached home, of not restricting the men, who had been
absent from their friends some three or four years, from
leave, whilst officers were freely allowed to go home. This
was an evil very easily remedied. He also particularly de-
sired to call the attention of the Secretary of the Admi-
ralty to the following circumstance. On Saturday last, as
he was passing a union workhouse, he saw some junk
which was being brought into the workhouse for the pur-
pose of being picked. He asked leave to examine it, and
what was his surprise to find that it consisted of bran new
rope, like the shears of a three•decker, which he did net
believe had been used once. It had not the least rub or wear
upon it. Some of this rope he had taken care to forward to
Admiral Graves at Portsmouth, and he hoped that the offi-
cer who furnished it would be discovered and superseded
instanter. (Hear, hear.) Of course he (Sir C. Napier) could
not say if the same new rope would be returned ; but this
was what he had witnessed. He also thought that some-
thing must be done with regard to the increasing practice
of breaking leave amongst seamen. At present offenders of
this sort were punished in such a way as to involve the
punishment of their comrades also. He would condemn
these offenders to a week's imprisonment with hard labour.
He was averse to flogging except in extreme cases, and he
objected to the men being sent to the county gaols at Exeter,
Winchester, and elsewhere, for they often came out worse
than they went in. There ought to be prisons built on pur-
pose for offending seamen at the various seaports. He un-
derstood, however, that the Admiralty were shortly about
to issue a new code of laws. He hoped this would be pub-
lished as soon as possible. He was quite sure that if, when
a man deserted, he was tried by a court-martial, and, if
found guilty, transported to one of the penal colonies, there
would be very little desertion and very little crime of any
sort. He begged the Admiralty to take one step further,
and not allow a man to be flogged, except under sentence of
a court-martial. He himself had established some such
court on board his vessel. He used to throw open the cabin
doors and allow any one to enter, and the proceedings were
conducted with as much solemnity as possible. He thus be-
came his own judge, jury, and executioner. He believed
that, unless the men were better paid, the service would
never be improved. The Admiralty must give the market
price for labour, like every other employer. He had before
advocated the better payment of the petty officers, and he
now said the same of the seamen. With regard to the petty
officers, he would say that, whilst a captain had the power
of disrating a petty officer without a court-martial, the offi-
POST-OFFICE INQUIRY. cer had not sufficient power over the men, and when dis-
Sir S. NORTHCOTE asked the Secretary to the Trea- missed he was a discontented man. On the other hand, if
awry whether the commission of inquiry at the Post-office he were tried by a court martial consisting of captains of
had terminated its labours, or had been dissolved; and, if the fleet, as the other officers were, and the utmost solemnity
so, for what reasons ? were given to the trial, it would be much more effective.
Mr. LAING said that the inquiry had been suspended for With regard to the recruiting of the fleet, however, it ap-
e short time, but had been resumed, and the committee peared that the Ganges was 10 weeks in obtaining 428 men;
was now sitting. and the Renown took 17 weeks to get 653 men, and others
REVISION OF THE FRENCH TARIFF. in a similar proportion. During the whole of this time offi-
Mr. HENNESSY asked the Chancellor of the Exche- cers' pay was running, at a great expense to the country.
quer, whether Mr. Ogilvie, of the London Customs, who He had some letters from sailors themselves which showed
had been selected to assist in the revision of the French what was their feeling. One said that there were plenty
tariff, as stipulated under the treaty, was the officer of that of seamen afloat who would be willing to serve if proper
name who, a few years ago, was engaged, under the direc- remuneration was given. The Government had rights over
tion of the present Chairman and Board of Customs, in the waterinen and lightermen on the river, but they were
getting up the prosecutions for alleged frauds against the never called on by the Admiralty. Let a plan be adopted for
various dock companies of theport of London: Whether Mr. drilling them on board ship, and they would be obliged to
Ogilvie was employed in revising the British tariff which has come forward, as their privileges depended on it. There
just been abolished, and which was based upon the prin- were blockships at Liverpool and Harnich, and none at all
ciple of levying duties by specific rates; and, further, if on the Thames, where a complete ship's company might le
there was any objection to the reports or statements made, obtained for nothing. He was anxious to see the navy
on a former occasion, by Mr. Ogilvie, to the Board of Cus- popular, and to be this, it ought to be put into a proper
toms, or any member of it, or to any person connected state. The navy might be made so popular that instead
with the Government, in opposition to the abolition or re- of the Admiralty begging for men, men would be beg-.
duction of the wine duties, being presented to this house. ging for employment. Ptivato shipowners and the great
Mr. LAING asked the hon. member not to press his steam companies had no difficulty in manning their
question until the Chancellor of the Exchequer was pre- ships with choice seamen ; it was only the Admiralty that
sent, as his right hon. friend had a statement to make rela- had any difficulty. The Secretary to the Admiralty said
tive to Mr. Ogilvie. they had got choice seamen ; but ho did not believe they
SAVOY AND THE CONFERENCES. were of that character. Strict discipline must be kept up;
Mr. S. FITZGERALD drew fhe attention of the noble the men must be treated with justice, but punished severely
lord (Lord J. Russell) to a statement alleged to have been . when they deserved it; they must be ruled with an iron
made by the Under Secretary for Forel-cis Affairs in an- Land in a velvet glove. (Hear, hear.) They should be
ether place, to the effect that the conference relative to the treated with consideration and indulgence when well be-
annexation of Savoy to France was postponed. 1 hayed, but any breach
.of discipline should be severely
Lord .T. RUSSELL said that lie understood his noble Punished'
friend (Lord Wodehouse) Lad made a statement, but not f Sir J. ELP lIINSTONE considered that the present
that the conference was to be postponed. Nothing. could machinery for the management of the navy could be modi-
be done in the matter until after the nreetineOf the Sar.. fled with great advantage. He could not help thinking
dinian Parliament; and if there was any adverse vote, then- , that placing a reserve force of 60,000 men under the control
eff course the conference would not be proceeded with. of an over-worked department of the public service—namely,
NAVY MANNING COMWISSION. ,'the Board of Trade, was not a judicious arrangement. lie
Sir C. NAPIER moved that an humble. address be ore- . thought they should endeavour as far as possible to pre-
sented to her Majesty, expressing the regrett of this house , *ate harmony between the navy and the mercantile marine,
that, instead of a reserve of 70,000 men contempLitod by the , anif he strongly approved of the recommendation
Manning Commission, there only existed 6,362 Coastguard. :
of the establishment of school ships. By carrying out that
men, including officers, 1,900 district ships' companies,- recommendation they would be adding yearly to the service
1,400 revenue men and 600 cruizers' men,
and 15,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 boys, who were becoming men, and receiving
$.900 coast volunteers not to be depended upon ; and, an education of a character such as sailors had never oh-
as Z vote of this house had unanimously decided' tained before to qualify them for their duties. The hon.
that the report of the Manning Commission ought to be baronet also drew attention to the hardships inflicted on
carried , out, the house prays her Majesty will give direc- ' the wives of sailors who were not entitled to their pensions
tile Coastguard should be completed to 12,0G0 I
tons that 4 tnless their,husbands had filled the full term of 10 years,
`:

(Continued from our first page.)
it would supply the country with seamen capable, in periods
of emergency, of immediately manning 20 sail of the line ;
the duty of protecting the revenue in such a case being tem-
porarily cast upon the militia, who might have a few Coast-
guardmen to direct them. Important, however, as was the
formation of proper reserves, it was as nothing in compari-
son with the maintenance of a standing fleet of well manned
aad well-officered ships, which would constitute the nucleus
of a larger fleet in the event of war. He trusted, therefore,
that the public would be contented to pay such an amount
of money as would insure for the service of the State a
powerful Channel and Mediterranean fleet. With a
permanent peace establishment of not less than 60,000
seamen and marines, together with the reserve which
they might now hope to possess, he believed the coun-
try might be regarded as reasonably safe. It was most
important for the British sailor to remember that if
he did not wish to "see the press-gang at work, he
must enter these reserves ; for the eountry must be de-
fended at any hazard. Their lordships must unite with
classes in defending it, as they were bound to do ; and they
must be ready to share the hardships and dangers to which
they subjected the people. The seaman who did not wish
to be impressed must voluntarily undertake the duties
which the State now asked him to perform upon terms easy
in themselves and highly lucrative. The retaining fee and
pension offered to naval volunteers were great advantages
to hold out to men to defend their wives, their children, and
their home.

Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY thought the increase
of the marines was a most essential part of the plan for man-
ning the navy. The commissioners who had sat on that
subject had recommended an addition of 6,000 men to that
admirable force, who, being organised and experienced in
gunnery, were ready to go to sea at a moment's notice, and
were as fit for service as any seamen who could possibly be
detained in times of sudden emergency. He trusted, there-
fore, that the recommendation of the commissioners on this
point would be fully carried out by the Government.
Lord COLCHESTER thought the house must have been
extremely gratified with the clear and satisfactory account
given by the noble duke of the means that had been taken
for forming an efficient reserve. There was an impression
in the navy that naval officers were never to be permitted to
fill the office of the First Lord of the Admiralty, and he was
therefore glad to hear the noble duke express an opinion
that members of the profession ought not to be excluded
from such appointments. Unpopular as the notion of im-
pressment might be, the Government ought to have the
legal power of compelling seamen to serve in cases of actual
war. He hoped the measures adopted to secure an efficient
reserve would prove successful ; but he was afraid their
authors were too sanguine. No doubt, many men would
accept the bounty, but would they be forthcoming when re-
quired' It was easy to "call spirits from the vasty deep," but
would they come when called? (A laugh.) He did not mean
that the men would be unwilling to serve the country, but
they might be absent on trading voyages when wanted.
The noble duke admitted the necessity of having the supe-
riority on the breaking out of a war; in fact, if the enemy
had the superiority for six weeks he would capture all our
homeward-hound merchant ships, and instead of the men
serving on board the fleet, they would be carried to French
prisons. This was no new opinion of his ; he bad stated it in
that house now morn than 20 gears ago, at the time of the
Syrian war, but he was happy to know that the state of
things was now very different. It was absolutely necessary,
however, that the country should have the power of com-
pelling the service of those seamen who, notwithstanding
every proper inducement was offered, would not come for-
ward voluntarily. The main prejudice was not to compul-
sory service, but to its indefinite period.
The Duke of SOMERSET in answer to his noble friend
had meant to state that the number of marines was origi-
nally 15,000. The late Government provided for raising
them to 17,000, and the present Government to 18,000, but
he thought it undesirable to raise more than 16,000, know-
ing the time it took to drill men and the importance of hav-
ing them well drilled, and fit to go on board ship. If there
were too many raised at a time there might have been some
neglect as to the men selected, and the proper time would

not have been taken to drill them. There were now on shore

6,000 marines—the number which the commission had re-
commended that we should have in order to put on board in
case of any emergency. (Hear, hear.) As to impressment
of course that power belonged to the prerogative of the
Crown. That power he was sure no advisers of the Crown,
whoever they might be, would ever recommend the Crown
to use, except in the case of such extreme necessity that he
would not anticipate it. (Hear.)

The Earl of SHREWSBURY and TALBOT thought
the country owed a debt of gratitude to his noble and learned
friend for having brought forward this question, and he
congratulated their lordships on the fact that the debate had
taken place without any symptoms of party feeling what-
ever. He thought the statement efthe noble duke at the head
of the Admiralty must be most satisfactory to the country.
He thought the training-ships for boys most important,and
he hoped no time would be lost in carrying the recommen-
dations of the Commission with reference to that subject into
full operation. With regard to impressment he quite agreed
with his neble friend below (Lord Colchester). That power
must remain with the Crown, although it was only to be
exercised on a pressing emergency.

The LORD CHANC.ELLOR—AIthough impressment
has been for a conshlerabla time disused, there cannot be
the slightest doubt that the power still remains with the.
Crown. It could only be taken away by the Legislature.
It has not been taken away; it therefore remains in full
force. I trust nonecessity will ever occur fur calling it into
exercise; but if the necessity occurs there can be no doubt
of the reality of the power. (Hear, hear.)
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.)
The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock.
PRIVATE BUSINESS.

The Commercial Docks Act Amendment, Finn Valley
Railway, and Milford Haven Railway and Docks Bills were
considered and ordered for third reading.
The Dublin and Drogheda Railway, and Waterford and
Limerick Railway Bills were read a second time.
Mr. WHITESII)E moved that, in the case of the Dub-
lin Corporation Water (No 2) Bill, the examiner of peti-
tions for private bills have power to hear parties upon their
former memorials, in reference to the matters referred to
him by the order of this house of the 30th day of April last.
After some conversation the motion was agreed to.
PETITIONS.

Several petitions were presented in favour of extending
the jurisdiction in bankruptcy cases to county courts ; in
favour of legalising marriage with a deceased wife's sister;
in favour of increasing the remuneration paid to medical
officers of poor-law unions, Scc.