The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-30 00:00:00

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E.ON

CRIMEAN TENTS.—A large quantity, suit-
.
able Per gardens, lawns, &c , to be SOLD at greatly reduced
prices. 12 feet square, 51 ; feet in circumference, 31. 154. To be
seen erected at BENJAMIN EDGI&GTON'S 2, Du:ie-sireet, South-
wark.

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[PRICE 4D. STAMPED SD.

Turkey might be strengthened for the prosecution of the
war, And hence it was felt that the governments who ware
taking upon themselves a liability for its payment had a
right to be satisfied with regard to its due application. I
need not asy that the finances of Turkey are like those of
most oriental cutuatriee. Great laxity undoubtedly prevails
as anybody may see who roads the Itars correspondence.
The Government cannot always place confidence in itsown
agents, but is liable to be cheated and plundered by its own
officers. Hence, it can hardly be disputed that it was a
reasonable precaution on the part of England and France
to say that they would not nuclertalso a liability unless sa-
tisfied that it was bona fide to be applied to the purposes
of the war. Such being the position of thingS, the two go-
vernments appointed commissioners, who were sent to
Conetantiuople, in order to arrange, in concert with the
Turklida authorities, the securities which should be given
for the due application of this money. Immediately upon
tke arrival of the commissioners at Constantinople, they
drew up a memorandum in which were contained the re-
gulations which they proposed the Turkish Government
should agree to, with respect to the expenditure of the
money to be from time to time handed to it. That memo-
randum was submitted to the ambassadors of England and
France at Constantinople. It was approved by those am-
:bass:tams ; it was submitted to the Government of the
Sultan, having been euhrtiitted to one of his Ministers on
Sept. 20. The house will see by this that on oqr part there
was no unnecessary delay to this point. No answer was
received for some time from the Porte ; at the end of seve-
ral weeks Fund Effendi wrote to request an interview with
the commissioners. This interview took place a few •
slays after--viz., on the 24th October—the delay in the
interval having arisen from the inaction of the Turkish
Government. Ou the last-mentioned. date the memorandum
was fully discussed, and an agreement was come to on all
p-dnts, with one exception. The commissioners thought it
their duty to require that some evidence should be shown
in detail of the application of the moneys paid to-the
„Turkish Government ;,_tlas Government contended, on tle• •
other hand, that they ought to follow their ordinary pi eel-
tics, which was Merely to show that a gross sum had been
transmitted to the service of the army, and that such
transmission should alone be evidence of due application.
'ln order to the settlement of this question, Fuad Pasha
proposed a further meeting, at which the Turkish system
of accounts was to be examined. This meeting did not
take place immediately, it was postponed from day to
day, aria, in fae, did not take place until Nov 24. That
was the very day on which the capitulation of Kars:took
place. Hence the house will see that whatever delay may
have taken place it was in no respect owing to any remiss-
ness on the part of the English or French Government, but
'on the contrary, that they and their officers acted with the
greatest promptitude. -Ultimately, a sum of half a million
was delivered to -the Turkish Government on the Ist Dec.,
and on the 17th. of that month an answer to the meneerans
dum was received from the Turkish Government, containing
kgeneral assent to its provisions. I think that thullonee
will see from this that it was the delay of the Turkish go-
vordineut, caused by its unwillingness to submit tcet rea-
sonable and necessary precaution, and not to any remiss-.
ness on our part, whieh led to the evil of which the noble
lord (Lord J. Manners) made complaint. I should state
that though the inembrendum underwent some slight modi-
fic:stions, it reumiued unaltered in all material points, and,
so unaltered, was assented to by the Government of Turkey
fact which proves that there were not conditions in•it
absolutely repugnant to that power. It ought also to be
stated by me that the Turkish Government obtained large
advances on the faith of this loan by bills drawn upon
Messrs. Rothschild. In this manner it obtained on the 21st
Sept. 253,009/., on the let October 200,0001., and on the
3rd of that mouth 100,000/. So that it was not so desti-
tute of means as the noble lord seemed to imagine. An-
other expedient for supplying, the Turkish Government
with funds was suggested by the hon. and learned mem-
ber for Eaniskilleu (Mr. Whiteside.) He said we might
have resorted to a subsidy of 100,0001., and that if the
Government had come down to this house and asked for
that sum there would have been no difficulty in obtaining
it, and that when obtained it would have enabled ithe
Turkish Government• to relieve the garrison at- Kara.
Now, I do not sea the hon. and learned member in his-
place, and tdo not wish to be supposed to use language
bAsinil the back of the hon. and fleatnea gentleman %Well
I would hot use before his face. I cannot, however,' re-
frain frotn.uoticing that throughout his speech the bon..
and learned member dealt much in vituperative ,epithets,
especially condensing very many actions of the Govern."
ment, and of poisons connected with it, as "contempt-
ible." I cannot, however, but think that if the hon. gen-
tleman had conic down to this house last summer, and
asked for a subsidy of 100,0011. to be handed over to the
Turkish Government to assist it in the carrying on of the
war, no word could more aptly have been applied than
that very word—contemptible. The hon. member referred
to the example of subsidies in the late war. Ido not wish
to go into the question of the policy of subsidies, at the
same time I cannot but feel that during the- late war we
did offer a resistance to the power ,d• France, and fence
ourselves round by means of our lavish system of subsi-
dies. It-wasa system of defence which enabled us to bring
lerge armies into the field ; but we did not send them
num, and I cannot but think that the hon. and
learned gentleman, however he may approve of that idea
now that he has the light of subsequent events to guide,
him, would have been one of the first to object to it had
the Government last session acted up to his present eugges-
tion. I will now say a few-words on the amendment of the

b~pn. member for Dorset 'who spoke with
AO:WI in olleritian `and 8,-- , Mow the giinglestf:
He gives various reasons why huaiannot support the
motion before the house, and offers an amendment which
looks very like moving the previous question. The effect of
his motion must at all events be to give the go by to the
main question, as the house is by the amendment called
upon to decline giving any opinion at present. on the me-
rits. Looking at the motion itself I think I can perceive
in it a strong family likeness to a motion made in another
place. The latter is certainly not identical in phraseology
to the motion before this house, but it hears so close a re-
semblance as to indicate that the person who prepared the
ore had before him at the time a copy of the other. Lord
Malniesbury gave notice for the 2%.1 of Mey to move that
while the house (of Lords) feels it a duty to express admi-
ration at the gallantry of the Turkish army, and of the
self-relying courage of General Williams and the British
officers engaged in the defence of Kars, it feels it to be
equally a duty to affirm that the surrender of that fortress
was a disaster seriously affecting the security of Asiatic
Turkey and the negotiations for peace • and further, that it
was in a great degree to be attributed to a want of foresight
on the part of her Majesty's Government. There is, then.
the closest resemblance between the two motions, but I
understand that since the commencement of business in this
house this evening, the motion in the other house has been
abandoned. However, it has been made the subject of de-
bate in this, having been. opened by an hon. and learned
'member in a speech of great elaboration, full of minute
details, and fortified by frequent reference to the corre-
spondence, and the house has been called upon to prenounce
a directverdict on the hon. and learned member's motion.
Her Majesty's Government feel it to be their duty to meet
that motion with equal directness, they believe it is wholly
unsupported by the evidence which has been laid on the
table, they believe it to be wholly unsustained by the facts
of the case, and they are most desirous that the question
should be fully discussed and sifted. They do not shrink
from the closest scrutiny into their conduct, and they
court the decision of the house on the motion as originally
framed. I shall not, therefore, be able to support the mo-
tion of the hon. member for Dorsetsbire. I quite recog-
nise its conciliatory spirit, but, nevertheless, it is, after
all, merely a postponement of the question. The hon.
member says—" Let us first examine the treaty of peace
and the protocols, and then we can form a judgment on
the conduct of the Government." I say, on the one
hand, that those papers can be soon examined, and that
there is nothing to prevent hon. members from at once
coming to a decision, nor any reason why the house should
be again called on to discuss this matter. The hon. and
learned member for Enniskillen has found ample evidence
for our condemnation ; I trust we shall get ample evidence
for our acquittal. I hope that the members of this house
will put themselves in a judicial frame of mind, such as
besoems the giving of a verdict, and if that should be the
case I feel confident that this motion will result in the
entire and complete acquittal of her Majesty's Govern-
ment. (Hear, hear.)
Sir J. PAKINGTON said he should not detain the
house by going at any length into the correspondence, or
the complicated questions which had been raised. How-
ever, he felt justified in saying that, notwithstanding the
speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the able and
powerful speech of his hon. and learned friend the member
for Enniskillen remained as yet wholly unanswered. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer was the first member of the
Cabinet who had risen to reply to his hon. and learned
friend ; and certainly, although he (Sir J. Pakington) had
had doubts as to the ground the Government would take
respecting the disasters of Kars, he never supposed that
any member of the Government would take up the extra-
ordinary ground that had been now taken. There was
one passage in the Chancellor of the Exchequer's speech
in which he cordially agreed, and that was the just and
well-merited tribute he had paid to the bravery of
General Williams. (Cheers.) Nor let it be confined to
that gallant officer, for every Englishman engaged in that
memorable s'ege was entitled to the deepest gratitude
from his countrymen. (Loud cheers.) His honourable
and learned friend the member for Enniskillen bad
alluded to the fact that the only contributions the British
Government had sent to the defence of Kars were feu!
Englishmen and a doctor. He (Sir J. Pakington) confessed
that he felt some regret at the terms which his.
speech.
learned friend had used in that portion of his hon. and
(Loud cries of hear.) When his hon. a
spoke of four Englishmen a right bon.furidenlrned friend
behind him
said "five." His hon. and learned friend misunderstood
the remark, and added " General William's secretary ;"
but the fifth individual to whose merits it was wished
w
bear testimony was the doctor, and he (Sir J. Pakingtot4
was sure the house would feel with him that no slight por-
tion of any tribute to the defenders of Kars belonged toDr.
Sandwith. (Loud cries of hoar.) He was also happy to
add his tribute to the generous conduct of Gen. Mouravieff,
in at once liberating Dr. Sandwith, in consequence of the
great care he had taken of the Russian prisoners when
within the fortress. (Hear.) Every gentleman who like
him (Sir J. Pakington) had had the good fortune to make
the acquaintance of Dr. Sandwith must have been struck
with the modesty and good feeling with which that gentle.
man always referred to the events of that miserable and
disastrous siege. (Hear.) He must now tarn to those
portions of the right hon. gentleman's speech in which he
did not concur. In his attempt to explain why no por-
tion of the Turkish loan had been paid until the month of
December the right hon. gentleman adverted to the fact
that the opposition had expressed strong disapprobation
to the loan ; but that was no reason why, having been
granted, it should not have been applied in the most
prompt and efficient -manner. The judicious expenditure
of 50,0001. or 100,0001. might have enabled General Wil-
liams to save Kars. (Hear, hear.) The right honourable
gentleman had devote a considerable portion of his speech
to proving that the capture cf Kars had had no effect
upon the peace negotiations. Ha (Sir J. Pakington
would not allow himself to be prematurely drawn
into a discussion of these. negotiations ; but, this he
would say, that he believed it would be very difficult to
per suede the house or the country that the capture of Kars
had not had an unfavourable effect on them. (Hear, hear.)
But that portion of the right hon. gentleman's speech
from which he wished to express the strongest dissent was
that in which he made the Government in no degree re-
sponsible either for the defence or fall of Kars. The right
hon. gentleman said, "No blame can attach to her Majes-

Xr. K. §eyiner;

tv's Government If the fortress Waknot properly defended.'
They were not responsible." Adding that the Govern-
ment had no responsibility respecting the state as;
affairs in Asia. Now it appeared to him that every lir*
in the blue-book tended to contradict that statement of
the right hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.) Look at the iu
structions to General Williams. On Aug. 2, Lord Chine!
don said, " You will have learned from Mr. Brandt the
state of disorganisation of the Turkish army in Asia, and
your first ditty will be to ameliorate its condition ; and as
it may be nee 13%1./7 to call the attention of
.the Porto to
the subject, yen will communicate with Lord Stratford
without previous reference to Lord Raglan.
The CAA VCELLOR of the RYCCHEQUER----sSend in
formation.
•
Sir J. PAKINGTON—Taking• the hypothesis that the
Government was to assume no responsibility, he wanted
to know how he was to account for these instructions or
the reports of Lords Raglan, Stratford, and Clarendon.
He contended that the Government had made themselves
responsible, and were responsible for the whole of the dig-
asters. Again, the Chancellor of the Exchequer urged
that the campaign in Asia Minor was comparatively unim-
portant ; bat there was no doubt that, with the possession
of Kars and Erzeroum, the Russians would have had a
clear route to the Bosphorus, and, as a consequence, to
Constantinople. He (Sir J. Pakington) begged him to ob-
serve that it %yes no part of his intention to vindicate the
conduct of Lord Stratford in these transactions, or hie
ne.:le lof General Williams. lie haul no doubt but that
ouch co iduct must have very much impaired the, useful-
ness of that officer, and thst he (General Williams) must
have felt himself se y much crippled by, the want of sup-
port from Constantinople but at the same time he was
bound in truth to state that he was not of opinion that
the conduct of Lard Stratford, however reprehensible—he
did not attempt to defend it -had had any material effect
in procuring the fall of Kars. He believed that the fall
was to be attributed to the subsequent conduct of her Ma-
jesty's Government—and he thought he could prove his
assertion by a brief reference to two letters. He thought
he could prove, first, that Government bad no justification
for the statement that they had assumed no responsibility ;
and secondly, that the fall was not attribntable (as the hon.
member for Dorsetshire had said) to the corruption of the
Turkish paellas, but mainly to the vacillation and want
of vigour displayed by the English Ministry. He would
first allude to Lord Clareudon's letter to Lord Stratford of
the 13th of July, and secondly to Lord Stratford's answer
to that letter. Lord Stratford had previously called at-
tention to the state of Kars, and the plan which the Porte
proposed for its relief, including an army of 41,000 men, of
whom 10,000 was to bo the Turkish Contingent. And here
he (Sir J. Pakington) begged to remark that on the pre-
vious evening the rejection of this plan was attributed by
the Attorney-General to the French Government, whereas
the plan upon which the French Government expressed ale.
minion was a different one altogether. He now came to
the first of the despatches, which in his opinion established
the respon ibility of the Government; and here he begged
to remind the house of the observation of the noble lord
the inem,no. for London at a former period, to the effect
that the Prime Miaister was responsible for the despatches
issued by his Government. He must say that this de-
spatch was one which the Government ought to be ashamed
of. There were many of Lord Clarendon's despatches
which, he admitted, did him honour ; but this one was
neither creditable to the noble lord nor to the Government
—for the spirit in which' it was wetten was craven and
unworthy. It assumed, and iu fact invented, every ima-
ginable excuse for rejecting the only plan by which Kars
might have been relieved. It said—
' The plan proposed by the Porte for tho relief of tho Turkish
army at kers, as sketched out in yourExcAlency's despatches
of the 30th June and Ist. inst., has been attentively consi-
dered by.her Majesty's Government, and I have to state to
co .:r Excellency that it appears to he objectionable for the
iollowieg reasons : It would be iu the greatest degree im-
prudent to throw on an unwholesome coast, without means
of land transport, without any certainty of provisions, with-
out an assumed communication with the rear, without an ac-
curate knowledge of the country to be traversed, or the
strength of the enemy to be encountered, and with the proba-
bility of a hostile population, 40,000 men, hurriedly collected
from various quarters, imperfectly disciplined, doubtfully
armed and equipped, and as yet unorganised, and to expose
them at once to all the hazards and difficulties of a campaign
against a Russian army.
Why the greater part of these dangers were mere assump-
tions—there was no proof whatever that they existed. The
Government assumed that there was wanting the means of
transport—that there was no certainty of obtaining provi-
sions, and no communication in the rear, and that there
was no knowledge of the country. If there was one
thing more remarkable than another in these papers,
it was the amount of ignorance the Government dis-
played of the nature of the country, and on that
ground only could their of stinacy in opposing every opi-
nion in the East. in reference to the Trebizond route, be
accounted for. His belief was, that the Government got
a map of the country, laid-it out upon the Cabinet table,
and seeing that Tiflis, Erzeroum, and Trebirond formed a
triangle upon it, they concluded that, starting from Tre-
bizond, it was as easy to go one way us another. Let him
'call attention to the next sentence of the despatch for,
without exception, it was the most tailing and unworthy
he haul ever read in a despatch penned by a British Mi-
nister upon any subject. It was in these few words :--
"They would fall ill between Redont-Kaleh and Kutais,
and be defeated between Kutais and Tiflis." Here was a
prophecy, not only as to when the Turks would fall ill,
but as to where they would not be met, and have to do
battle with the enemy with a chance of victory, but be
'defeated by them. What could be more .calculated to
damp the courage of the Turks? He would now advert
to the answer of Lord Stratford, and that was one of the
severest and most condemnatory letters that any foreign
Minister had, ho imagined, ever received from one of his
own diplomatic agents. Lord Stratford, writing to Lord
Clarendon, said :

"The unfavourable judgment passed by her Majesty's Go.
vernment on the plans which have been lately under discus-
sion with a view to the relief of the Sultan's army at Kars,
has naturally increased the Porte's embarrassment. It was
my duty to make it known to the Turkish Miniseters, not
Duly as an. opinion, but, with mspoot. to, - -
Contingent, as a veto. A most serious dilemma is the imme-
diate result. Her Majesty's Government not only withhold
the Contingent:but express a decided preference for the al-
ternative of sending reinforcements to Erzeroum by the way
of Trebizoud. This opinion is not adopted by the Porte, or,
indeed, by any of cial or personal authority here. The
Seraskier, Omer Pacha, General Guyon, our own officers, as
far as I have means of knowing, agree with the Porte and She
French Embassy in preferring a diversion on the side of Re-
dout-Kaleh, as offering better chances of success ; supposing,
of course, that tho necessary means of transport supply and
other indispensable wants can bo sufficiently provided.
France is at the same time decidedly adverse to any diminu-
tion of force in the Crimea ; and Omer Pacha, ready to place
himself at the head of an Asiatic expedition, requires for that
purpose part of the troops now there."
And then, in verklespair, he added—" Such being the
present state of thetase, I am precluded from contributing
to the Porte's extrication from its difficulties otherwise
than by countenancing some new location of the Contin.
gent, which, without exposing the corps to a premature
trial, might enable a force of the same amount to be de-
tached for service elsewhere." And the despatch ended
with the words—" Meanwhile the advice. from Kars are
not encouraging ; and time of precious value is unavoid-
ably wasted in doubt and uncertainty." Well, he (Sir J.
Pakington) relied upon these two letters, and, in his opi•
nion, they distinctly proved that it was the Government
who were responsible for the fall of Kars. (Hear.) It
was true that they afterwards changed their minds and
agreed that a diversion should be attempted in Georgia ;
but that was two months after they had rejected this or-
ganised plan of the Porte—approved of by the Sultan and
his minister, and by the French and English ambassadors,
and by all the military authorities; and only when it was
too late had they given their sanction to Omer Paths
making a diversion in Georgia. (Hear.) Now let him ask
them was it possible for the right bon, gentleman the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, in the face of these letters, to con-
tend that the Government were in no degree responsible
for the defence of Kars, and that they were not to be
blamed for its ultimate surrender. There was one other
point to which he wished to allude, viz., the language of
Lord Panmure in speaking of this lan as a wild. undigest-
ed, and mad scheme. Lord Panmure said in his despatch
that he had too much confidence in General Vivian's pro.
fessional ability to feel any anxiety that he could under-
take any expedition so wild, undigested, and mad. (Hear.)
And was the house aware that at that very time General
Vivian had written a despatch, which was being forwarded
home by Lord Stratford, in which he said:—" I (lo not
entertain a doubt of the advantages of the proposed (that
was the diversion by Georgia) measure if it could be judi-
ciously arranged." The right hon. gentleman had said he
would not go into the comparative advantages of the two
roads. When the question of saving or losing Kars
turned upon that apparently very trifling question. He
(Sir J. Pakingten) had beea surprised to hear on the pre•
view evening from the Attorney-General that General Vi-
vian approved of the proposal for attempting the relief of
Kars by the Trebizond route, and more so at hearing the
Lord-Advocate state that the Trebizond roads were per-
fectly good for artillery, as every military man knew. He
(Sir J. Pakington) must say a more audacious assertion
he had never heard hazarded in Parliament, and when it
was uttered he felt disposed to think that his legal friends
would say almost anything.. What the right kon. and
learned gentleman's peculiar means of information as to
the Trebizond roads were he could not say, but he pre-
sawed he would allow that fhe. Tart:lab authorities
and General Willinuae aht*. be 1001LeU upon as
some authority; and both that General and Fund
Pacha declared that the roads there were wholly
unfit for artillery, an
it d that it would take
three or four months before was possible to take an army
to the relief of Kars by that route. The right hon. gentle.
man had tried to make the house believe that Gen. Wil-
liams was in favour of trying to relieve Kars by way of
Trebizond ; but, so far from that being so, he expressed a
hope that the allies would send an expedition to Georgia
to operate upon the rear of Mouravieff, and create s diver•
sion, otherwise nothing could saveKars. How, in the face
of such language, was it possible to contend that General
Williams was in favour of the Trebizond route, he (Sir J.
Pakington) could not understand. Again, writing in Oc-
tober, Gen. Williams said—" Under these circumstances,
I address these few lines to your lordship, with a hope that
such representations may be instantly made to General
Omer to act with vigour and decision against Georgia;
otherwise in spite of our brilliant victory, we must ulti-
mately fall into the enemy's hands." Here, again, it is
clear that in the opinion of Gen. Williams relief could
come to Kars only by the plan proposed by the Turkish
Government, which the noble lord (Clarendon) had re-
jected. He (Sir J. Pakington) had been induced to make
these remarks by the speech of the Tight hon. gentleman,
and he hoped he had shown the house that the Govern
ment was not justified in assuming that they wogs pPt
re-
sponsible for the events which led to the capitulation
tai that
Kars. (Hear.) He, on the contrary,
they had made themselves responsible 'by
the le
blame for
quoted, and that upon them mainly rested th
taeanetter he had
the loss of Kars. (Hear,) •
Mr. LAYARD claimed the indulgence of the house for
a few moments, and assured them that he would not details
them longer than was necessary, for he thought it was too
much the habit of that house to spend too much time in
words and little in acts. He hoped, however, to be able
i ctfosrmbeifoogreathjennidgimneenutchu
verytion
as shortly ovrwould
t to
id place
themth
paonP°thsie.
question at issue. Hitherto he thought the subject
had not been closely placed before the house. They had
had a resolution proposed and supported by a most able
and vigorous speech from the hon. and le reed member
oppof ate. The Government had been strongly atiack.d in
that and by other speech es delivered from the opposite side
while. on the other hand, the speeches from
othfeth "re rhseeoansur'y bench, he must say, had been somewhat
almost tended to convert him to an oppo.
site :ko'painnid had
on from that they were intended to advocate.
(H oar.) It was unfortunate that the Government had en.
ti isted their easel() a lawyer who had not got up his brief.
(" Hear," and a laugh.) Without presuming too much, he
thought he could have made a better defence for the Go•
vernment himself. He would, however, endeavour to take
away something from the strong element of the debate, and