The Sun.
London, England, 1856-04-09 00:00:00

;LONDONI_IVEIS.iIESIDA:Y VENING, APRIL 9. 1856.

aed s,u .tibe the hon. gentleman was quite ready t. 3
adopt it. Vie doctrine appeared to rest on the opposi•
tion bet we en fixed property and what was generally
called indusi'Tial income ; or, as it was commonly called,
and very clearly called, the difference between permanent
and precarku t incomes. Those who talked about per-,
manent and prectrious incomes assumed that it was pos-
sible to classify all wealth, all property, and alt incomes
into those two classes ; that it was possible to say,
" There is a set tain sort of 'incomes which are called
fixed or permanent inoomes, and there is a certain sort
of 'incomes which are called precarious." Now it
seemed to him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) tbat
such an assumption was entirely founded in
error, that no distinction _really did exist in any
other sense than that there was a scale of incomes, rising
from the most permanent and ending in the most pre-
carious incomes ; bat that between those two extremes
there was an infinite number of degrees, and that it was
impossible to fix any point at which it could be said that
permanent incomes ended and precarious incomes began.
It was understood in general terms what was meant by
them ; but, if we attempted to found a system of taxation
on that distinction, and to apply it in practice, and to say
that so doing would obviate all the practical injustice and
all the inequality which arose from the present system,
he believed that the theory would prove to have been
founded in perfect delusion. (Hear, hear.) He would
suggest in illustration of this, one or two most obvious
case'. Everybody knew hat was the meaning of
profits made by trade, by purchasing at the lowest price
for which articles could be got, and selling at the best
price that could be obtained for them. Every one knew
also what was meant by a professional income, depend-
ent en the exertions of the individual, and dependent
therefore upon his health and capacity of continuing his
profession—as in the case of a barrister or a medical
man, for example. But what would be said to an inter-
mediate case—a very common case—that of an income
derived from an estate for life ! Was that to be con-
sidered as precarious or permanent income. An estate
for life was a freehold estate' according to the law of
England, but nevertheless it did not enable the person,
except cut of the yearly proceeds of it, to make any pro-
vision for his family. Take the case of the parson or
incumbent of a parish. He had an estate for life ; but
was it proposed that he should pay the fuil rate of pro-
perty tax, and that a banker or a merchant, making I
large profits, of perhaps 20,0001. or 30,0001. a year,
should be allowed to be exempt from taxation because
he had what might be called a precarious income, while
the clergyman with a living of 1501. a year was to be
taxed because his living was an estate for life. (Rear.)
Everybedy must see that if the income tax were to be
reconstructed on principles 91 justice, such cases as these
would have to be considered. Then there were an
infinite number of interests or estates which could be
created and charged upon an estate for life, by settle-
mente, and various dispositions were made for leaving
remainders to children and other persons, expectants on
on a life estate. In what manner was it proposed to deal
with the income of persons having a life interest under
such circumstances ? It would be found that in any at-
tempt to adapt the property tax to all these varieties of
property, the house would involve itself in an undertak-
ing from which the mind would recede in a state of
actual bewilderment. Then, there was the question of
a trade. According to the doctrine of precarious in-
comes. ail incognes derived from trade were held to be
such ; that was to say, that the incomes derived from
banks, from distilleries or breweries, or from trading
companies, some of them long established and having
the elements of stability most strongly impressed
on them, should be enjoyed by.their possessors during
the whole time- of their natural lives, giving them
opportunities also of making pr >vision for their
children, and be held to be only incomes for
the purposes of taxation. (Hear, hear.) But if by
ability to pay was meant the relation between a man's
income, either at the present time or hereafter, and the
probable demands upon that income, then numberless
circumstances must be taken into consideration besides
the nature of his property or income ; then his family cir-
cumstances must be taken into consideration, and his
means of obtaining assistance from others; and there
were hardly any two casei la which, if we were to go in-
to an 'accurate investigation of a person's ability to pay,
it would not be found necessary to make a difference,
and adapt the tax to the circtimstancee of the indini-
duai. lie believed that in the income tax of 1805
there was an attempt to make an allowance for children
—there were abatements for persons having more than
two children ; where the anneal income was under 4001.,
for each child above two there was a deduction from the
tax of 4 per cmt. ; in the cases of incomes above 4001.
a-year, the (Induction for each child above two children
was 2 per cent., and so on ; but that' provision
did not very long continue to exist, and it was
altered in 1806 or in 1807, and it was not revived after-
:wards when the income tax was reimposed, no doubt be.
cause of the difficulty of applying such a deduction. But
if we were to understand by ability to pay the means
~shish a man had of making his income provide fir his
wants, unquestionably it would be necessary for us to
take into account something more than the amount of his
income, and to consider also the demands upon it. The
result would be that if they attempted to do justice to in-
dividuals, if the system was to be effectually carried into
operation, it would be necessary almost to make a special
case of every taxpayer. But then as to this principle
of sparing the precarious incomes, and imposing an ad-
ditional rate upon permanent incomes—how was it pos-
sible, the doctrine being so laid down, that they should
go on levying an indirect tax which, from the neces-
sity of the case, bore equally upon all ? (Rear, hear.)
A wrson who had 100,C00/. a year, and a mechanic who
received 154. a week as wages, paid precisely the same
duty upon sugar, and coffee, and tea, and tobacco.
rill no attempt ever could be made to adapt the tax
to the circumstances or the ability of the individual.
Therefore it the hon. member was consistent in his view,
be must put down all customs, excise, and stamp duties,
in order to substitute fir them the all-pervading pro-
perty tax. But it would not Stop there. It would be
necessary that he should remodel all the local taxes.
The local taxes, which produced something more than
ten millions a-year, were not levied on the principle of
a property tax, but they were' more strictly levied on
the principle of an income tax. They were charged
upon the occupier in proportion to his annual rent.
Now it would be impossible, if they were to hold that
the present system of bete ins the income tax was founded
ou injustice, it would beimpossible that that house could
leave standing, unaltered, so large a systen of taxation,
producing ten or eleven millions a-year. With regard
to schedule D, und. übtedly it was an important part of
the pre-ent tax. The produce of schedule D last year
was 5 101,0001 ; of schedule A, 7,661,0001. ; of schedule
0, 1,802,000/. The number who contributed to schee
dole D, according to the last returns, was net greater
than ,282,480 persons. All the incomes in the other
,chedules were charged not on the taxpayer, hut bef, re
the income reached the recipient's hands. With regard
to schedule D it was impossible that that practice should
be followed ' • it was necessary that the per one included
in schedule D should assess themselves. Nov he was
far from wishing to make the smallest imputation upon
the honoer and integrity of professional and commercial
persons whose incomes were included in schedule D,
but it was in human nature when a man assessed him-
self for the imposition of a tax that he should be some-
what more indulgent to himself than it he were assessed
by another person. It must also be borne in mind
that a great portion of property which might be con-
sidered as commercial property was included in
schedule A. In many respects there was great
analogy between that class of property and property
included in schedule D. Nevertheless the plan of
taxation which the honourable gentleman proposed
would draw a great distinction between these two
classes. Since the discuseion which took place four
years ago upon the subject of the income tax a new tax
bad been imposed, which to a certain extent altered the
relations of schedUles A and D. He alluded to the tax
on successions. (Hear) That was a tax of considerable
magnitude, which was paid at certain periods in large
RUMS, and which fell exclusively upon property included
in schedule A. Ile conceived that the very full and
able consideration which his right hon. friend the mem-
ber for the Univereity of Oxford gave to this subject in
bringing forward his budget, when the matter was almost
exhausted by the treatment to which he subjected it,
woul I have rendered it unnecessary t a have brought
this question forward again. Ile had hoped that the
present position of the income tax would have furnished
an additional reason why the.hon, gentleman should not
have brought forward so extensive a motion. He thought
this Ras not a favourable moment fur the entertainment
of this discussion. Under these circumstances, he trusted
Oat the house would, after the purpose which he pre-
sumed the hon. gentleman had in view had been answered
—namely, after it had been subjected to discussion—he
trusted that the house would not be disposed to pledge
thsmselves to a proposition the consequences of which
were too important to be assented to in the form in
which they were proposed. He begged leave to move
the previous question.

regular wages not amounting to 100/. a-year, hut being
ma& up to that amount by a few days' overwork. It was
not the intenti,na when they passed the act that it should
apply to-iiich case 7, and he trusted the Chancellcr of the
Exchequer would give directions to the assessors not to
press such cases.
Mr. SPOONER could not agree to the whole of the
motion. He could not agree that the hardship was wholly
upon persons having industrial and professional incomes.
Landowners had as much to complain of, for every one
who knew anything of land, knew that they must deduct
20 per cent, from the rent to arrive at the net income,
and yet the landowners were assessed upon the rent. Then
-also they practically paid the tax levied upon tha tenant. If
the motion-went to a division in its present shape he
should vote against it.

Sir H. WILLOUGHBY complained of the operation
of the law of long annuities. In point of fact, long an-
nuities in their present shape were taxed to the extent of
23 per cent.

kr. MUNTZ, in reply, said he never had the slightest
intention to make any special reservations in favour of
any particular class. All that he wished was that the
house &honi'l affirm, in the words of his resolution,
" That an equitable adjustment of the tax was essential
to the interests of the country."
The house then divided on the previous question, that
the motion be now put—
Ayes
Noes . 194-131
The question was therefore not pnt.
THE C FIINESE EXPEDITION.

Sir J. W. HOGG had given notice that he would call
attention to the claims of the. East India Company on
her Majesty's Government fur 806,5351., being the ba-
lance of the expenditure by the Government of India on
account of the expedition to China, and to the corre-
spondence on the subject laid before the house in May,
1854. He would, however, content himself, in the first
instance, with asking the Secretary of the Treasury whe-
ther he had gone through the accounts, and, if so, with
what result ? Probably that would render it unneces-
fary for him to proceed with the subject.
Mr. WILSON said there had been a difference of
opinion between the Government and the Eist India
Company with respect to the principle upon which the
account should be made out ; but there would not be a
difference of more than 200,000/. between them.
Sir J. W. HOGG remarked that as the hon. gentle-
man had admitted a debt of 600,0001. to'the East India
Company, he should not think it necessary to troublethe
house.

Mr. LAING said he should certainly vote against the
motion. To affirm It. simple and general principle, and
leave the Government to work out the details, was a
systeiii that ought not to be applied to questions of
finance. Ho believed it W 25 perfectly true that there i
was no tax n the budget against which strong and valid
objections could not be brought, and therefore be could
conceive nothing more dangerous than that the House
of C ,mmons should get into the habit of passing resolu-
Cot- 5 containing abstract principles unless they saw some
practical mode of repealing the tax. On that ground he
should vote against the motion. At the same time he
by no moons assented to the conclusion that the present
income tax was by any means perfect in its incidence.
On the contrary, he was strongly impresser) with the
conviction of the income tax being found to be a neces-
eary and permanent part of our taxation, and in the next
place to render it a permanent part of our taxation
. some
revision of the mode of levying the tax was necessary.
Ile did not think it requisite to modify the whole taxa-
tion of the country, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer
put it, in accordance with some axiom laid down by Adam
Smith, He believed also that the idea of substituting a
property tax for an income tax was equally
.visionary. He
quite agreed that they must levy a certain rate upon
that iscome, and they must not a;tempt to carry out that
which was impossible, that any mode of levying the tax
was a perfect one. A great part of the difficulty bad
arisen from the income tax not being looked upon as a
permanent part of our system. It was first brought for.
as a short tax, and had been continued as a tempo-
rary measure ever since ' • but he thought 'sn bad now
arrived at a time when we should look upon the income
and pr: perry tax as permanent. He should say that the
tax should be something like 5 per cent. in time of
peace, and that they should regulate their finances in
that view ; and therefore •it was important that in
schedule D they should escape the inquisitorial charac-
ter of it on the one band and fraud and evasion on the
other.

Mr. WILLIAMS called attention to the hardship on
artisans who had been a,sessed to the income tax, their

greet that now not ab.ver one-third of the Scottish
schools were of this dertemiliation, and consequenily
no less than two-thirds t'f the teachers in the whole of
Scotland were quslifie‘i for the management of a parish
school. .The opinion of the country on the question of edu-
cation had set of late years in favour of obtaining the best
teacher for a school, no matter what might be his religious
opinions • the only test they wised to retain was the
test of ability,l and it was plain to all that the time
had came when the religious test inuet be abolished. It
tenet also be recollectel, that although a number of new
schools had certainly been established , it did not necessarily
follow that the amount of education was greater, because
it unfortunately happened thet, from sectarian asperity,
the schools became rival, instea I of additional schools, and
that, in point of fact, in-many cases the establishment of a
new school in a particular locality had greatly injured the
old one, without doing itseli any perceptible good ; so that
if a general system could be established, and the existing
schools could be fairly apportioned over the whole country,
not only would the expense of management be lessened,
but the amount of education given would, in all probability,
be greatly increased. There was no occasion, in his opinion,
for teaching sectarianism at schools, for such was the di-
versity of the human mind that different opinions soon
sprung up after leaving school, whereas by having a gene-
ral system friendships would be formed, and a spirit of
conci.iation nurtured which would alleviate the bitter-
ness of religious animosity and enable the educated man to
enjoy his own convictions, while he extended. a due mea-
sure of respect to the differing opinions of his neighbour.
Ho fully admitted that up to the present moment the re-
ligious, or rather sectarian, element had been the chief
obstacle to the formation of a general system, but he be-
lieved that, if it could be once established, it would greatly
conduce to the results which he had indicated. Being ra-
tisfied that no school would exist in Scotland at which re-
liigion would not be taught, he was sorry that his right
hon. friend was unable to carry out an educational system
upon a more comprehensive scale, but he accepted the
measure as a step in the right direction, for he thought if
they could get the test abolished it would be worth the
struggle they had made to effect the object.
Mr. MACKIE said he approved of the bill introduced
by his right hon. friend. He entirely disapproved of the
present religious test, yet he thought that a schoolmaster
should be made to show that he believed in the general
truths of Christianity. (Hear.)
Sir A. Al NE approved of the bill, which was looked
forward to with great anxiety in Scotland. He only re-
gretted it did not go farther, but perhaps as it stood, it
would contribute more to peace than if it went farther. It
was not a question whether the present parish schools did
good or whether they were sect:siren. He believed they did
good and were not sectarian. The question was, had they
the confidence of those for whose benefit they were origi-
nally intended ? He had no hesitation in saying that they.
bad not. Scotland was now differently circumstanced from
what it was when the parish schools were first established,
and this bill he thought would place them in the position
they once held. He did not believe the bill would prove
in the least dangerous to the Established Church, whilst
it would have the happiest results by contributing to
peace and harmony. (Hear, hear.) Some gentlemen ob-
, jected to this bill because it was said that the next step
would be to attack the Established Church of England.
He did not see how it could have any such effect,
because the bill exclusively applied to Scotland, and
there was nothing in the English system analogous to the
scotch one. He hoped the house would assist the Lord
Advocate in giving effect to the bill. (Hear.)
Mr. BLACKBURN said he would not discuss the bill,
as it was not yet before the hot.se. He thought the rela-
tion between the parish schoids and the Church should be
left as it was, and that some religious test should be re-
quired of the schoolmaster.

the proper performance of Its duties. Various improve-
ments 111,i b,en suggested for the purpose of rendering the
rtrd all,: to discharg, its duties, nut the real defect was
a want of power over the business confided to the board.
It had no power to compel the productios of accounts.
The difficulty had arisen, not from any defect in the origi-
nal constiz.ution of the board, but from circumstances of
an historical nature. The hon. and learned gentleman
was proceeding with his statement when'
Au HON. MEMBER moved that the house be counted.

During the delay which intervt:ned before the process
could be gone through, several members rushed into the
house, and it was then found that 4U memb,ts were present.
Mr. BOWYER resumed his remarks, and expressed a
hope that the Government would see the necessity of in-
stituting an inquiry into the matter, with a view of re-
medying the defects which now existed.

Mr. STIRLING thought the right hon. gentleman de-
served credit for the moderation which he had shown ira
introducing the present modified bill, and he hoped his
moderation would be followed by gentlemen on his side of
the house: (Hear.) Were it not for the question of the
religious test, he believed, there would be no difficulty in
the education question as regarded Scotland. The Church
of Scotland in the rural districts held its own, and there-
fore he thought the parochial schools should be left under
their care in those districts but as the Church did not
hold its own in the towns, he did not think any preference
should be shown to the Established Church. He thought
there was a greater want of reformatory schools for those
whom he might call the barbarous tribes of the population,
than of schools for extending education to the artisan
class. The inspectors of schools, with the exceptionof Dr.
Woodford, admitted that the school machinery in Scotland
was not deficient. One-fourth of the persons who entered
the schools for the purpose of being trained as teachers fol-
lowed other occupations, which showed that there was not
so great a want of school machinery as was supposed.
(sear.) If the house looked to the reports of the inspec-
tors, they would find that the existing system was in a
most satisfactory state.
Leave was then given to bring in the two bills.
LOCAL CHARGES UPON SHIPPING.
Mr. LOWE moved to appoint, as the select committee
on t':e Local Charges upon Shipping Bill—Mr. L,we, Mr.
Hardy, Mr. M. Gibson, Mr. Herat's'', Mr. Fen wick, Sir S.
Northcote, Mr. Cobden, Mr. Watson, Mr. Bouverie, Mr.
HeAdl,rn, Mr. Cardwell, Sir J. Duckworth, Mr. Duncan,
Lord Hotham, and Mr. stoffatt.
Mr. V. SCULLY rose to call the attention of the house
to the habitual exclusion of Irish members from important
committees, thus depriving' them of the opportunity of
protecting the fecal interests of the country, and com-
menced, amidst much laughter, by moving the emission of
the name of Mr. Lowe. The right hon. gentleman treated
the Irish members as a sort'of Australian kangaroo, de-
serving of no attentioa whatever. The right hon. gentle-
man had visited Ireland, and therefore he kntw that Ire-
land did not o_lcupy au inland position, but that it had an
abundance of ports and harbours which would be affeeted
by this bill. Why, he represented a constituency which
had far more harbours and ports than the borough of Kid-
derminster. This system of neghet towards Ireland was
not confined to the present case. A Cabinet Minister had
only that night moved a committee on transportation on
which it was only proposed to place one Irish member. Of
that, indeed, he did not so much complain, for although
Ireland had at one time furni,led a large proportion of
the persons transported that was not s.) now; and perhaps
the proportion of Irish to English members only fairly re-
presented that which existed: between the persons subject
to punishment. (Laughter.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said her
Majesty's Governmeat did not for one moment dispute the
fact that there were ports and harbours in Ireland, and
that they deserved the utmost Consideration.of Parliament.
He could assume the lion gentleman that there was no de-
sire to exclude Irish mambos: B from the committee. Appli-
cation bad been modiste the Irish members to serve on the
committee ; but they had declined. He proposed that
the committee should consist of 17 members, instead of 15,
and that the two additional membersshould be Irish mem-
bers.

Tile CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sail there
were two questions to be considere,i—one the state of legis-
lation affecting the audit board ; the other the administra-
tion of the system under the existing Id.w. It was a matter
for the consideration of the house whether there should be
an entire change in the character of the au4iit or not?
With respect to the administration of the audit board, so
far as his information extended, he was not aware that
any arrears of business had arisen, or that there was any
reason to suppose that the present board was not efficient
for the transaction of the business which devolvedupon it.
All the naval and military accounts were sent to the audit
office for vouchers for every disbursement, and there every
account was placed under its proper head. The whose
mass of the naval and military expenditure was subject to
that final oriesl.

Sir F. BARING could not understand the mode of audit
of the army accounts He had given notice of a motion which
included the subject. He thought all commissariat accounts
were originally audited at the Treasury. It was thought at
that time that all accounts should be audited at the Audit-
office. One of the last things he had done while in office was
to appoint a commission to inquire to what extent the army
accounts could be audited by the audit board. He thought
that that board should have the same check ou the army ex-
penditure that it bad on that of the navy.
Mr. DISRAELI was glad the subject had been introduced,
and the notice of the house would be again called to the ques-
tion. He had risen to show the respect which was duo to
the hon. gentleman who had brought the motion forward.
The Audit-office, like everything else in the country, had
been the creature of time and circumstances. From auditing
a few accounts it bad arrived at the considerable power of
checking 6uo of the public accounts. He thought the posi-
tion of the audit administration was not of that sati factory
kind which the country had a right to expect. It should be
applied to the whole of the accounts of the country, and in
his opinion should be directly responsible to that house. He
was sure that the result of that night's discussion would be
to lead to a better system in that particular,
Lord PALMERSTON said it was a grea'• mistake to sup-
pose that the auditing of the military accounts was not corn.
plete and effectual for the purpose. It was not conducted by
the Audit-office, nor could it be. He was speaking then of
the groat mass of public expenditure for the army service.
The audit required was of a peculiar nature. The whole of the
money voted for the pay and all,wances of the troops was
issued through regimental paymasters, who received it perio-
dically ou an estimate which they sent for the expenditure
of the next month or two months. It was issued to
them in conformity with regulations, minute and detailed,
iu order to provide for every variety of circumstances of ser-
vice in which officers and men might be placed. But those
regulations were issued and made by the War-office. The ob-
ject of the audit of the paymaster's accounts was, first to as-
certain that no sum had bees issued for which the paymaster
had not a voucher to show that it has been actually expended,
and next, and almost equally important, to ascertain that it
had been issued in conformity with the regulations. The au-
ditors were not competent judges of those matters, they did
not know the regulations. The War-office was the best judge
whether the sums issued and vouched for had been actually
expended according to the regulations. The business of the
great body of able men who composed the War-office was to
check those accounts, and to report to the Secretary for War
those issues whico had been made, either not vouched, or, if
vouched, not in conformity with the regulations of the ser-
vice. If the issues had been made not vouched, the paymas-
ters were, of course, liable for the amount. It coustaully hap-
pened that issues were made properly vouched ashaving been
made, but issued in a manner not in conformity with the
strict regulations of the service Such cases were returned to
the Scretary at War, who determined whether under all the
circumstances, the irregularity might be justified by the occa-
sion. That was a point which auditors could not determine, it
could only be determined by the authority which issued the re-
gulations. He was well assured that any arr aigement t i audit
the army accounts by the Audit-office would involve great
delay and multiplied correspondence. He spoke with some
knowledge of the matter, having held for many years the
office of Secretary at War There could be no audit more
strict and more effectual than that which related to the pay
and allowance of troops.
Mr. HENLEY said that although the noble lord bad given
them full information with respect to the issue of pay, he had
passed lightly over that vast branch of expenditure, the Com-
missariat and the Ordnance. It appeared to him that ehat
was a branch of the expenditure which the house had a right
to know whether the money had been applied, if nut alto-
gether, in what proportion to the services for which it was
voted. '

Tllo CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained that
the Audit •fflce saw that all expenditure for the commissariat
and ordnance was properly vouched for, and that every item
was brought under its proper head, in order to correspond to
the appropriation act.

Mr. HENLEY hoped it was so. He could not see why the
regulations mentioned by the noble lord cold° not be imparted
to the Audit-office, so as to enable tile army expenditure to
be audited as the house eeemed to desire.

Mr. WILLIAMS agreed in what had fallen from the hon.
member for Oxfordshire a, to the possibility of having the
army accounts laid before the auditors. He- was glad to
find that the hon. member for Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring) in-
tended to bring the subject beore the house.
Mr. BOWYER begged to ask whether a statement would
1)e laid upon the table (iu continuation of papers of last session)
of the audit of accounts, s;owing what accounts had been fully
audited, and the reason why the delay had taken place.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Perhaps the
lion lumber will give notice.

The house then passed to the orders of the day.
SUPPLY REPORT.

Mr. WILSON brought up the report of the committee 0:
supply, when the different votes were agreed to without dis•
cession.

PUBLIC WORKS BILL.
This bill was ordered to be read a third time on ➢fonday
next.

PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) BILL.
This bill was also ordered to be read a third time on Mon.
day next.

TRIAL OF OFFENCES BILL.

This bill was, after the introduction of a few amendments
by the Attorney-General, agreed to and ordered to be rkad a
third time.

This being all the business on the notice-paper, the house
adjourned at five minutes' past 12 o'clock.

Mr. DISRAELI regretted that the discussion as to
Irish members taking pert in the proceedings of that
house should have been revived. He had hoped that
these disenssions were dormant, if not nearly dead.
lie should not oppose the proposition of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, but he thought seventeen were too many
for a committee. A fewer number would be more efficient. - -• -•
He denied the imputation that Irish members were ex-
cluded systematically from taking part in the proceedings The following letter on this subject has emanated
of that house. He denied, too, that Irishmen were ex- from the Liverpool Reform Association. It is ad-
eluded from office. Mane Prime Ministers of this country dressed pro forma, to J. C. Ewaa, E,q,, M. P.,
had been Irishmen, and when he (Mr. Disraeli) came into and W. Brown, Esq., M.P., but may be taken as
Parliament an Irishman occupied that very post of which the remonstrance, generally, of the Fiaancial Re-
the hon. and learned gentleman complained, namely, the
f)
office of Vice-President of the Board of Trade, which at
being(rmers against even the supposition of such a sum
the time to which he eluded it was filled by Mr. Sheie. voted in these times, as a dowry—to any of
Mr. WATSON objected to the committee, as being the Royal Family : '
already tee numerous, and now it was proposed to increase
Financial Reform Association, 6, York-buildings,
the number. He called upon the Government to recoil- Dale-street, Liverpool, April 7, 1856.
struct the committee.
My Dear Sir—On behalf of the council of the Finan-
Mr. F. SCOTT complained that his name had been placed
upen the committee after he had intimated that it was cial Reform Association I beg leave to call your atter.-
not lion, and through you, that of the public generally, to the
his intention to serve upon it.
Mr. JOHN M'GRE'dOR regretted that the bill which common report that her Majesty's Ministers intend to
had been introduced had been sudden
propose to Parliament that an annuity of 70,0001. per
! thrown u If
he had been at the Board of Trade, ays he once was he annum shall be sett!ecl on the Princess Royal on her
would --- (laughter, which prevented the honourable marriage with the Prince of Prussia.
gentleman finishing the sentence.) When ho was at the On the policy of that marriage I offer no (Tinier,.
Board of Trade, no hill was ever prepared by that board Perhaps the alliance with the heir to a powerful king-
that did not pass. (Cries of "oh. oh, oh," and laughter.) dom may be an improvement on the system which has
He did not say that because he was the author of the hitherto confined the selection of husband,. and wives for
bills. (Continued laughter.) He had been much pained at the royal progeny of England to the petty princes and
hearing the right houserable gentleman the member for ri of Germany with extensive
Buckinghamshire refer to the appointment of the late Mr.
apndncessee less Productive than the estate ofterritories manyless an English
Shell. He had always had the greatest respect for that
lamented gentleman ;he was a most pleasant and sociable squire. But the proposed dowry is so preposterously
person—(laughter) —bet he was quite unfit for the office of extravagant, that the first mention of it conveys the jut-
-Vice-President of the Board, and so he had expressed him- pression that, in this as in many other issuances common
self to him (Mr. M`Gregor). The committee as at present report must be a common deceiver. 70,0001 per an-
constituted ought to be abandoned, and a fresh one ap- num !It is the interest of a million and a-half of money;
pointet, in which all the great seaports should be repre- it is 20,0001. more than was thought sufficient by an
Rented. The object which the committee had to inquire unreformed Parliament, in the days of Bing Geo. 111.,
into was slimily one of confiscation. when all the expenses of living were much higher than
Mr. H-t DFIELD wished to know how making Sheffield they are now, for the husband of Princess (Marlette,
FLy 6,000/, could be called confiscation. He complained the heiress to the throne of England,
that the great manufacturing districts were not repre- et
seeted on the committee. Just ten leer the circumstances under which this job
Sir F. BARING objected to the construction of the is said to be in contemplation. We have sprat upwards
committee, as there was a majerity upon it of members of a hundred millions on the war now terminated, for
whose opinions were keown and pledged upon the subject she present ;we have borrowed, or shall have to harrow,
which they had to consider. The decision of such a corn- some thirty or fifty millions more ; our doubled iecome-
reittee, therefore, would not carry any weight hereafter. tax and imposts on commodities wring from us nearly
It would be much better to withdraw the committee and seventy milions annually ; there are-the strongest mo-
ieconstruct it.
Lives for reducing expenditure to the lowest limits con-
Lord PALMERSTON paid this was not to bo a judicial sistent with the efficiency of the- 1 üblic service ; how,
committee, nor wars r.
it to decide whether the bill should o
should not be adopted. When the bill was before the then, is it possilde that our ruler', can meditate such a
house it was said that certain localities h d not been course piece of wasteful extravagance as the alienasien.e of of
ie siletl, and therefore a committee was to be appointed to 70,000/. per annum of time public money, for the lif
inquire into the circumstances that were alleged. He a princess who, in the natural course of events, will be-
thought the committee as proposed was calculated for the mile queen of a foreign kinedout I Why should the
object in view, He agreed with the right hon. gentleman people of England he hound to provide 70,000/, a year
the member for Buckinghamshire, that 17 were too many for the future Queen of Prussia I
for a committee, but let the house look at the demand Such questions must occur to every one ; but the ob-
which that night lied been made for representatives on the j. coons implied in them will have no force whatever
com mittee. As te the committee being a partizan committee,
either with Ministers who propose the arrangeweet, or
he thought that was an "advantage. The object of the
411 Parliament which wiil be called upon to carry it into
committee was to inquire into facts, and therefore it would w
effect unless the country speak, out, through public
taut be wise to select persons ignorant of the circumstances ' , .
meetings and its representatives, an i protest', eeergeti-
into which they had to inquire. The gentlemen who had
been named were well acquainted with the subject, and tally against so needless and improvident a waste of the
therefore he strongly recommended public money. As to her Majesty's Ministers, instead of
the house to agree to
their appointment. endeavouri, g by every practicable means to reduce the.
Mr. HORSFALL had hoped the suggestion that had ordinary burdens of the naluns, whilst imposing extra-
been made would have been accepted by the Government. ordinary ones upon it, they have taken advantage of the
He was unwilling to move an amendment, and before do-
popular excitement produ:ed by the war, to make large
,ing so again appeele,l to the noble lord to delay the ap- and unnecessary additions in almost every branch of ex-
poiuttnent of this committee for a week, to reconstitute
Home
bate for a week for that purse.
the committee, and he moved the adjournment of the de-
penditure, civil as well as military ; and as to the
of Commons, instead of acting as a check en Ministers,
e Lots, PALMERSTON said he thought nothing would be it has encouraged them in their profusion ; it has aided
gained by any adjournment. This committee was net to and abetted them. in their extravagance so rashly and
decide the question, but merely to report for the guidance blindly, that it has incurred rebuke
even in the House
of the house. of Lords for its reckless disregard of all economy.
The house divided on the amendment for the adjourn-, The personal income of the parents of this young lady,
meat of the debate. The numbers were— from all sources, cannot fall very much short of 200,0001,
For the adjournment 67
Against it lOB per annum. Whatever the amount really is, it may be re-
garded as their pocket money only, for they are furnished
Majority —4l
in addition with palaces, parks, and gardens for residence
The retention of Mr. Lowe's name was agreed to. l
• Mr. SCULLY objected to the name of Mr. Hardy on the and recreation, with horses and
s, yachts, for, carriage
committee, on the ground of his being a gentleman of no locomotion, with most numerous establishments for
experience, and only been e'ected to a seat in that house their service and with provisions of every kied. for their
within a mouth. He thought an Irish member should be maintenance, and the actual cost of all which goes far
named in his steed, or some Irish member added to it. beyond the 385,0001., forming the imaginary boundary
Mr. R. PHILLIMO RE defended the nomination of Mr. of Civil List expenses. Why, then, should they not,
Hardy, who was as well qualified to perform his duty as like all other parents, provide dowries for their children ?
any Irish member.
Il they are not to be subjected to the Fame rules as orig.
The name was then agreed to.
nary mortele—if this, also, must be done for them at the
The remaining names were also agreed to.
AUDIT OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. public expense—let it be dons with some little regard to
decency and moderation at all events, some little cored-
Mr. 130WyER then called the attention of the house to deration fur the,strugglieg taxpayers, from whom the
the constitution of the Board of Audit, and the defects of funds will be extracted, and many of whom are hardly
the law regarding the audit of public accounts. For the enough pressed to provide for their own necessities. ,
last two years the estimates had exceeded any amount John Bull is, prove! Wally, the most enduring, though
since those of 1.'41. When the last estimates were 1
he may likewise be the most grumbling, of all creatures,
brought forward, 3f persons were withdrawn from the
Audit and transferred to the War department. Although But 'ore re most he belted. eve, t - his vet ere e and for.
the transfer of the Commissariat dep-u talent hail (iiini- bearance. To ascertain how far these extend would '-em
ni.hed the duties of the Audit department, the number of to be the preeeit olject both et Minietere and of Parlia-
persons employed in that department was insufficient for.. merit. The experiment is injudicious, and may be dan•

iproiP. 0 nce thoroughly roused, the people cf th!A
try .veil *oak. shore, w• rk_Nith all nlig,rchieal abuses.
It any Root) pr,p as that which form., the sul jest
of this let,,er 111,1 really be submitted to Parliament,
it ought to he met with the most strenuous opposition
by every true representative of the people.. 4 If it be,
t.ev.rt,eless, adopted, the day of reckoning will come,
and those who r,anction it, by :•peech or vote, will have
t:r reader a strict account to their constituenti.—l anif
my dear sir, yours faithfully,
ROBERTS)N GLADSTONE, President.
AVressed ti Mr, J. C. E Nart, M.P., and Mr. Wm.
8r0w,,, M.P.

COantry

LIVERPOOL-Argt S.

There was a good attendance of the trade to-day, pro•
bably induced by the largeness of the week's arrivals. For
all good and useful qualities of wheat and flour fully late
prices were required and paid, but secandary sorts of both
articles were quoted down on th 3 week—nominally 2d per
bushel on wheat, and is per sack and barrel on flour. In-
dian corn is 6,1 to 2s per qr. lower, but it was not gear
ra ly pressed by holders at the great loss in price. We,
oatine4l, barley, beans, and peas unchanged.