The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-27 00:00:00

PRICE 4D. STAMP 6, SD.

on the table of the lemur, whieh a1uerea41,64444 Jetegi
andethat there was a very animated distnisgolikoetteeen the
First; Lord; of the Treasury and theme
_respecting laessador
,respecting the affairs of Morocco. I eariteli*tigt hon.
gtrril;eare?that-± never heard of the'eltsiQei nor do I
r • •
fissionha 4:4 cell this
iernment respect
to tie taleeaition to lvloroe.reof,; We thought the
war was an unneceesary war on the Pea:t Spairnietliet--
opinion was very ill taken by Spain, but itNives.Q.o mdth
pleasure to say that I believe that war is now approaching
a termination. (Cheers.) Then, with regard to China, the
right hon. gentleman ',says we asked flor the assistance of
the French in China, and that we were told they would only
give that assistance if we assisted the French policy in
Italy, and that a bargain was thereupon made. That is
another specimen of imagination on the part of the right hon.
gentleman; bet whether it is his own, or whether he has
picked it up from some of those telegrams which fly about the
world, and have little authority, I know not ; but at all
events the house should not be misled by taking everything
for certain that the right hon. gentleman said. Then with
respect to this great and important question of Savoy, I
have more than once told the house the state of our infor-
mation on that subject. I told the house what had passed
between our ambassador in Paris and the French Foreign
Minister, and what our Minister at Turin had reported of
his conversation with the Minister of France. I never con-
sidered myself bound to vouch fer everything- that was so
reported. The right hon. gentleman says that I assured
the house to its very great satisfaction not only that the
Emperor of the French would consult the great Powers of
Europe, but that he would be guided by their opinion. The
noble lord the member for Leicestershire endeavoured to
extract from me an opinion whether the Emperor of the
French intended to consult the great Powers of Europe in
the sense of explaining to them his views with regard to
Savoy, and then to act as he thought tit, or whether he
meant to abide by the decisions he might receive. Not
being certain myself, I never could state to the noble lord
in what sense the Emperor of the French meant to consult
them; but the very moment I received a despatch explain-
ing in what sense that consultation was to be made it came
down to the house and told them I thought it was intended
in the sense of exposing the reasons of the Emperor of the
French, but at the same time n 4 supposing the great
Powers should decide upon the questlon, but that the Em-
peror himself should decide. Well, as regards that subject
I said, however, that I thought, if it met with the
unanimous disapproval of the great Powers—if the course
the Emperor of the French meant to pursue with respect to
the annexation of Savoy they should feel was an alarming
step for France to take, and might betoken future aggres-
sion,
I did not believe that that plan would be proceeded
with. Whether I was right or wrong in that opinion cannot
now be ascertained, but I know that with respect to the
great Powers the Austrian Government said in the first
instance that the annexation of Savoy to France was not
wersee at all events, than the annexation of the Grand
Duchy of Tuscany to Sardinia, and that it was a question
in which they had less interest. But we know besides that
the Emperor of Russia has said that it was free to the King
of Sardinia to give away his own province, and that it was
free for the Emperor of the French to receive it ; and there-
fore it was impossible that a foreign sovereign could inter-
fere. Well, then, I say with regard to any opinion that we
might give, we could not expect that it should have the
same weight as if it had been the opinion of the four Powers
unanimously given and expressed—if not in the same terms,
in terms of strong disapprobation. The right hon. gentle-
man seems to think that we are ashamed of the despatch we
sent in answer to that of M. Thouvenel. I can assure him
the Government are not at all ashamed of that despatch,
and when it is produced I think this house will be of opinion
that we have no reason to be ashamed of it. (Hear.) But,
then, sir, there are other questions connected with this sub-
ject, especially one that must be- of great importance to
Europe, and to this country, as a free country, to this Par-
liament as a free Parliament, must be one of surpassing into •
rest,—l mean that which is connected with the indepen-
dence and neutrality of Switzerland. (Cheers.) Some days
after the despatch of M. Thouvenel we received a represen-
tation from the Government of Switzerland complaining
of the disposition about to be made 'with regard to the
neutralised territory of Savoy. This, sir, is a question
of a different nature, because, with regard to Savoy, it
may be said, as with regard to Tuscany, it was part
of the settlement of Europe in 1815 that Savoy should
belong to Sardinia, and that Tuscany should belong to the
Grand Duke of Tuscany ; but there was no guarantee on
the part of the other Powers with regard to the possession
of Tuscany by the Grand Duke and of Savoy by the King
of Sardinia ; and therefore the transfer by the King of Sar-
dinia of his rights over Savoy to the Emperor of the French
is a question on which those Powers may or may not think
it right to remonstrate or go further. But, with regard to
the independence of Switzerland, that is a matter ofinterest
to all Europe, being guaranteed by the great Powers of
EnroPe. (Cheers.) Indeed, not only is the territory belong-
ing to the Confederation guaranteed, but there is a part of
Savoy which is declared to be neutralised, and with regard
to which it is provided that, if war should break out between
the neighbouring Powers, the troops of the King of Sar-
dinia shall evacuate that territory, and a Swiss military
force shall hold it till the termination of the war. (Cheers.)
Now, it is obvious that the transfer of that territory from the
King of Sardinia to the Emperor of the French is a great
change in the condition of that territory ; and, though not
within the letter of the treaty, it does bear—it may be in-
directly—in a very important respect upon the independence
of Switzerland. (Cheers.) For that reason, as M. Thouvenel
has applied, on the part of the Emperor of the French, to
the various Powers of Europe, and has received, as the
French Government say, favourable answers from several
of those Powers, so, on the other hand, Switzerland has ap-
plied to the Powers of Europe with a view to maintain her
neutrality intact, and with a view to her future indepen-
dence. (Cheers.) Now, this is a question which does not re •
quire merely an answer on our part to the despatch of M.
Thouvenel, but, in the opinion of the Government, it does
require that we should endeavour to ascertain what was the
opinion at Vienna, what the opinion at Berlin, and what
may be the opinion at St.Petersburgupon this subject. We
have ascertained, so far, that without any decided course
of conduct being agreed upon, the Courts of Berlin and
Vienna do attach the highest importance to the neutrality
of Switzerland—(cheers); and we see by what has appeared
in the newspapers to-day—of which we also received a sum-
mary in our despatches, that the Powers of Europe will be
called upon to say whether the position of Switzerland be
sate under the treaty made by the Emperor of the French and
the King of Sardinia. (Cheers.) Well, I will say that I
do not think this is a negotiation that could be carried on
by this house as a body. Ido not think that the members
of this house, voting by a majority, could undertake to make
the communications that must be made to Berlin, that must
be made to Vienna, and to see whether, with Vienna and
Berlin together, we may not obtain 1101110 co-operation with
the Court of Russia. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman
despises our ability. lie thinks We are objects of contempt
to the Emperor of the French ; and so far as we are concerned
the right hon. gentleman thinks there should be a vote of
want of confidence ; but this house has not taken from us
its eontidence—(hear, hear)—and till such vote takes place
we shall think ourselves entitled to carry on this negotia-
tion and place before the house, when concluded, its results.
For these reasons, Sir, I have, meanwhile, withheld the
answer to M. Thouvenel's despatch. Ido not follow the
right hon. gentleman in his depreciation of the character of
the Emperor of the French; but the course pursued, as I
expected, and as I said from the first, frankly and fairly to
the French Government, has already produced a great deal
of distrust. (Cheers.) I believe myself that if when the war
was begun last year the Emperor of the French and the
King .of Sardinia had said openly to the world, " The Sing
of Sardinia has to sustains great war against the empire of
Austria; he cannot sustain it alone ; the Emperor of the
French has determined to help him, but the Emperor of
the French expects, and has stipulated by treaty with the
King of Sardinia, that if the territories of that King are
very much increased in Italy that portion of the territories
of the King close neighbouring on France and on the
French side of the Alps shall be given to the Emperor
of the French" if that bargain had been declared, I
will not say what amount of indignation would have
been entertained in regard to it; must say, looking
to the circumstances with which it has been attended, espe-
cially after the declaration of the Sardinian Government
that they would neither sell, exchange, nor surrender this
territory—(loud cheers)—the course that has been pursue
has produced great distrust in this country—(cheers)—and
over
I believe
it
will produce
great 'Ms
whether tall
strong Europe.
(Cheers.) Sir, I very much doubt
resolu-
tions, or even strong lane
greatniMage effect,ont upon the legitimatehe part of this house
would have produced an
issue of this affair.
Vlanguage
nt i o
m
held this house madeNe have b
it necessaryeen told that
forthea t
Frenchthe
nation
r a pretext than a true representation. It is
evident
to insist on their Government doing what has been done.
That
d ist rathtahte
it
is a
plausible pretext to say, "we
would
h
or conceded this point, but the insulting
language negotiated ted
outsieadis such that our honour is at stake and
are
can no longer give way." say that is a plausible pre-
veen
text ; but, be this as it may, there has been declared from
the beginning of these discussions, immediately after the
first debate that took place in the House of Lords, that,
although strong language might be used on the subject,
there was no intention of going to war on account of it.
The right hon. gentleman the member for Stroud :said in
One of his speeches that we might be quite sure no man in
this house wished to go to war for Savoy ; now, if tb ,ere had
been entire liberty to the Government to negotiate on this
subject—although certainly they would not haw e threat-
ened war—although they would still less have ph dged the
Government and the country to go to war, still it: is diffe-
rent not saying anything on the subject, and 1 declaring
from the commencement of the negotiations that whatever
may be the issue we will not go to war. (He ar, hoar.)
Sir, my opinion as I declared it in July and Jams .ary I have
no objection now to repeat—that such an set as the an-
nexation of Savoy is ono that will lead a nstii, et a so warlike.
as the French to call upon its Government (rem time to
time to commit other acts of aggression—(: hear, hear)—
and, therefore, Ido feel that, however we may wish to
live on the most friendly terms with the Fr in& Gotikrli•
ment—and certainly Ido wish to live on the . most
terms with that Government—(cheers)—we ought apt to
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