The Sun.
London, England, 1860-03-02 00:00:00

mends. (Hear, hear.) The consequence has been that, of the Crown ; that they and those who agreed with them
although concession in those instances was wise and found( d should carry on the business in the name of the Crown,
on just principles, yet that, coming somewhat too late, and and that thus the connexion should be maintained between
being as it were watered by delay, we have witnessed the the Crown and the House of Commons. According to4he
land vexed and troubled by the agitation of those very mea- view of these persons, in the time of Charles I. Mr. Pym
sures the object of which was to pacify. (Hear, hear.) I for was to be Chancellor of the Exchequer. He would have
one am, therefore, of opinion that we ought not to wait in been called what is now styled leader of this house, and
the present instance until agitation arises, and those classes would have conducted, in the name of the Sovereign, the
which are excluded from the enjoyment of the franchise business of the country. But there was another party that
combine together to enforce their demands upon the con- said this ought notato be the function of the House of Com-
sideration of Parliament. On the contrary, I maintain mons. The function of the House of Commons is to check
that, if their petitions be just, if their claims be founded on;. and control the Crown ; let the Ministers of the Crown
fair appreciation of their own qualifications, and that it be disqualified for sitting in. the House of Commons, and
would be likely to contribute to the strength and durabilito
y let their measures be discussed by a perfectly independent
the constitution to accede to their request, we ought not
House of Commons. That dispute continued till the reign
to hesitate to comply because no agitation of the question of Queen Anne, when it was determined that Ministers of
prevails. (Cheers.) I have no wish to see again the flames the Crown should be capable of being re-elected, and from
of Nottingham and of Bristol blaze forth to warn the House ' that time it has been necessary that this house should not ,
of Commons that it must delay no longer to pass a further only represent generally the opinion of the people, oppos-
measure of Parliamentary reform. I much prefer taking ing
advantage of these quiet and tranquil times, when any pro- any proposition from the Crown, but it has been neces-
sary that this house should contain within itself persons_
position on the subject can be fairly and calmly discussed, capable of conducting the business of the country—capable
to submit such a measure to Parliament, to deferring its in-
of conducting, as things at present stand, the affairs of a
troduction to a moment of greater excitement, when it
great empire, whether with regard to our colonial depend-
might be out of our power to fix as we might deem cape-
encies, the affairs of our exchequer and the taxes to be im-
dient the exact limits by which our proposal ought to be posed, or with regard to foreign affairs, representing the
defined. (Hear, hear.) In dealing with this great quea- Crown, at the same time having seats in the House of Corn-
tion, then, Sir, we have deemed it better, upon the whole, mona. Now, I very much doubt whether this can be done
in order to make our measure as simple as possible, to avoid if you have a representation consisting either of electoral
those proposals which we made in former years, and districts or divided solely into counties and great towns.
which were likewise made last year by our predee With regard to the counties it is obvious that the greater
cessors in office—l allude to the introduction into our portion of the country gentlemen who represent them would
representative' system of franchises hitherto un- be unwilling to leave their present occupations in the coun-
known to the constitution—(hear, hear)—which my hon. try or to sacrifice their ease in order to undergo the
friend the member for Binniugham calls " fancy fran- labours of office and the drudgery which in these times
chises," and which, although many of them might confer office imposes. With respect, again, to the members
the right of voting on persons well qualified to exercise it, for the great cities and great manufacturing towns,
yet are alinost every- one of them liable to abuse and so re- we often find that they are gentlemen who are them-
sult in the creation of fictitious votes. (Hear, hear.) The selves engaged in business, who can indeed give a certain
principle on which we propose to proceed, therefore, is to amount of attention to the business of this house and can be
extend still further the £lO franchise which is now en- present at ell its principal debates, but who would never be
joyed ; to take that franchise generally with its present con- induced to risk their prospects in life that they might attain
ditions ; to require the payment of rates, as is now the case; the precarious position for six months or a year of Ministers
but, at the same time, to extend it to a lower degree than of the Cron a. I hold, therefore, that it is quite neces-
that at which it stands. With that view we have made sary, having regard to the great business of Government,
inquiries, and carefully considered their results. There is, that beside the counties and the larger cities and mann
I may here observe, one question whichhas been frequently facturing towns, you should have smaller places returning
discussed, and which formed the forndetion of the provi- members to this house. (Hear, hear, and a laugh from tha
sions of the bills of 1852 and 1854,--I allude to the ques- Opposition.) There is another reason which makes it es-
tion whether this should be a rating franchise. In examin- sential that there should be something of this kind in our
ing that subject we found that great variety in the proper- representation, and it is this—that you have from time to
tions of the rating franchise to the true value of houses timo seen men of the greatest ability, aud fitted to render
existed. We discovered that there were some instances in the greatest service to the country, but who, representing
which there was a difference of 9 per cent. between the a great popular body, incur the ruomensary displeasure of
gross rental and the rated value of a house, while in many their constituents, and are thereby deprived of their seats in
instances there was a difference of 28, and in others of 30 Parliament. That, sir, was what happened to Mr. Burke
per cent. Now it is obvious that it would not be possible 3 because he contended for the great principles of liberty both
in a Reform Bill to make at once a change in that mode of here and in Ireland, as well as in America. (Hear, hear.)
valuation ; that, in endeavouring to effect that object, you The same was the case in more recent times with a risen
would be subject to the discretion of local authorities, and, who was famous in this house and who has lately departed
as a consequence, either through ignorance, 'custom, or pie- from among us, but who will live for ever in his immortal
judice, many persons would lose their votes, while others writings—l mean the late Lord. Macaulay. (Hear.) I say,
possessing the same amount of property in their vicinity then, that if, according to the system which has now been
would enjoy the franchise. (Hear.) I have stated the prat- established for a century and a half, you are to have the
tical difficulty which would be involved in making the Government of this country caizied on in this house, it is
change, but there is another objection to its introduction. necessary that you should have more than these two classes
In striking the poor law rate the rental of a house is cal- of representatives—the members for the count:es and those
culated according to its true value, subtracting from it, for the great cities and towns. Nor has there been any
however, not only the rate charged in point of fact, but also plan of reform proposed of late years which would do away
the sum necessary for repairs. Now, is taxing property it with that kind of representation. The measure brought
is quite right to subtract that sum ; for, if a house be valued forward by the right hon. member for Buckinghamshire
at £lO, and £2 are each year laid out for the purposes of last year made the least change that any one has proposed
repair, it is obvious that the property is not in reality worth in this respect ; while, perhaps, the proposal of my hon.
more thin £8 per annum to the owner. The question, friend the member for Bihningham made the greatest.
however, with respect to the meaning of a £lO "clear (A laugh.) Bnt it is singular enough that my lion. friend's
yearly value"—the phrase used in the Reform Bill of 1832 proposal left us with between 40 and 50 !timbers for towns
—came before the Court of Common Pleas, and it was then having from 8,000 to 15,Q00 inhabitants and therefore being
contended that the " clear yearly value" intended by Par- towns of a moderate size, such as those to which 1 have re-
liament was the same as was signified by the net annual furred. [Mr. Blight hero made a remark, the purport of
value under the Poor Law Act, and that the Reform Act which could not,be gathered.] I rifer from this, then, tha
should, therefore, be mists aed after that manner. The however our plans of reform may differ, ell those who have
Court of Common Pleas, however, decided that in the case taken part in proposing such plans of late years have been
of the Reform Act the Legislature had proceeded diverse of opinion that there should be a certain number of mode-
' intuitu, and that in that particular case its object was to rate sized towns which should send members to Parliament
confer the franchise according to the capacity to pay rent, as well as the other constituencies that I have mentioned.
and not to impose a tax on a man according to the value of (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Having laid down that
his property ;—that is to say, that if a man paid £lO a yeas sir, as a general principle, lam far from intending to din-
for his house, it was no matter whether £2 a year were laid cues whether as an abstract question the proposal of the
out by-his landlord for the purposes of repair; that ho was right hon. gentleman the member for Bucks or that of my
the man who paid the £lO a year, and the Legislature de- hon. friend the member for Birmingham would be the best,
dared that the man who paid a rental of ,ElO a year was en- but I wish to deal with this question as one which con-
titled to a vote. That being so, we did not think it advisable terns us practically. For my own part I should be quite sa-
-indeed, we are of opinion that it would be practically in- tisfied with the proposal which we made in 185 t. That pro-
convenient, and in point of abstract right unjust, to fix posal was that about 60 seats, or rather more, should be
upon a franchise that should be dependent on rating. Then, taken from the smaller boroughs and transferred chiefly to
the question next comes as to what would be the franchise the larger counties and some to the large towns. There is
taking the gross annual rental, or, as it is expressed in another question with which Ido not shrink feora dealing.
the Reform Bill, the clear yearly value, of the premises. It is a question which concerns the present state of this
The returns at first showed a very great addition which house. When the Reform Bill of 1832 was introduced
almost any reduction in the franchise would make to the there were many of those boroughs vshich, as I have said,
number of the electors. For instance, reducing it to £8 contained only a ruined wall or a green mound, and there
seemed to add an almost overwhelming number, but when was no difficulty, when Parliament was once disposed to
the question came to be tested and examined, it was found touch those boroughs, inn abolishing their franchises. I re-
that a very great number of these persons, in consequence ol member one hon. gentleman who, much to his honour when
not having paid their rates, and from various other causes, it was proposed that the borough of Ludgershall should be
were disabled from having a vote, and that deduction was so placed in schedule A, got up and said, "I am the patron of
large as to amount to 271 per cent. Now, sir, having ar- Ludgershall, lam the elector of Ludgershall, lam the mem-
rived at that conclusion, the next question was to consider ber for Ludgershall, and in all three capacities I vote for
what would be the numbers added generally in the whole the disfranchisement of Ludgershall." (Laughter.) But
boroughs of England and Wales by taking any particular the case at the present time is very different. You have no
sum. It appeared that the whole number of electors en the men who can dispose in that way—even if they were will-
register was 440,790 in the cities and boroaghs. A very ing to do it—of these small boroughs. If a town has but 250
considerable number of these 440,790 are parties having an r 300 voters, these 250 or 300 voters will feel as keenly as
old scot and lot right of voting or in the enjoyment of old the electors of much larger places. (Cheers from the Oppo-
rights which are expiring A deduction ought to be made sition.) They and their representatives would join with
for the number of freemen and others to the extent of those gentlemen,,whatever their numbers might be, who
30,765 ; the remainder, therefore, only 410,005, may be said are the most Conservative party in this house, and I have
to have the right of voting—electors on the register by no doubt they would be able to defeat any such measure as
virtue of possessing a £lO qualification. Well, in consider- I proposed to introduce in 1854. (Cheers and laughter
ing what should be done we found that if we took those from the Opposition) Therefore, without meaning to go
who occupied at a gross rental of £9 and over we should get into the question, which does not immediately concern us,
440,717 electors, being only 30,712 additiooal voters. If as to how many smallboroughs there ought to be, and how
we took those at £8 and over, the number of voters would be far the growing wealth and population of the country re-
-476,004 being an additional number of voters of about 66,000 quire their seats to be sooner or later transferred to other
—i.e., 6,5,999. Sir, it appeared to us, although that is ap- places, I may state that our proposal goes only a certain
parently a very considerable lowering of the franchise— length beyond the proposal made last year by the right hon.
namely, not to £8 rated rental, which some persons talk of, gentleman opposite. (Hear, and a laugh from the Opposi-
but an £8 occupation—that disturbing the arrangements of tion.) That right hon. gentleman's preposition was, that 15
the Reform Act and introducing a measure which might boroughs, now returning two members each, should hence-
excite great public expectations, and adding no more than forth return only one. This I think was to be done by fix-
-66,000 to the 440,000 electors now on the register for the ing on 6,000 as the limit of population, and taking w
one
s
cities and boroughs of England and Wales, would not be a member from each of the boroughs whose populationthelimit
of
wise or expedient course. (Hear, hear.) It then became below that limit. Now, we propose to go up to
worth while to see what would be the effect of placing the 7,000 inhabitants, and in the same manner to take away one
franchise at £7. At £7 and over the total number of voter',
memberfrom
tat it would not be desirable to raise the
every borough that falls below that point.
subtracting always the 271 per cent., would be 532 i
11:ot ; it
•appearstome h
giving 122,812 additional voters. Well, but
wLe did
rental. qthuiensetmthe length we proposed to go in 1854. The prin-
n like of total disfranchisement unless we went to some-
stop at that number. We went down to the
(Hear.) We er const'd ed what effect would be produced by ciple of total disfranchisement is one of very grave import-
taking the rental at £6 and over, and we found that that ;moo,ce. It ought not to be adopted 'without sonic great and
total number of voters for all the cimtieesapnodlie,and such boroughs palpable public benefit would accrue from it. I cannot think,
England and Wales, including the
therefore, that the abolition of some six seven, or ten
boroughs, leaving eight or ten others of a similar character
laces as Liverpool, Manchester, Leed metropolis,
s, and Birmingham,
I) d
be 604,804, making an addition of 194,199 voters; 80 immediately above them in population, would be a wise or
wuthoatl if wo add the present number of electors—namely, expedient measure. It would evidently create great dis-
-440,770—we shall have as the total number of voters for the satisfaction among those thus disfranchised, and they would
cities and boroughs in England and Wales 634,969. Sir, it certainly be able to show that other boroughs immediately
appeared to us that in point of number that was no extrava- above them were of much the same description. It is a
gent amount (hear) ; that when you have already 440,000, much milder proposition to say that at the bottom of the
including freemen, to add to them somewhere under scale there are a certain numher of boroughs which may
200,000, less than 50 per cent. of the present number, was still continue to be represented, but which are now over-
no exorbitant addition. (Hoar.) With regard, however, to weighted. in the representation, and some of their seats
the character of the persons who would be thus admitted, I should be given to the more populous towns and larger
must say the accounts from different cities and boroughs counties. We, therefore, propose that those boroughs,whose
have been extremely various. In some places the rental is names I will read—(loud laughter, and cries of "hear ")
very low ; in others it is high ; accordingly, in some places
auall no longer send two members to Parliament. They
there would be very few electors added to the present num- a Honiton—(a laugh)—Thetford, Totnes, Hazster,
eich,
her. In the city of London there would be very few indeed. Evesham, Wells, Richmond, Marlborough, Leominster,
In Plymouth there would be some 200 or 300 In other Lymington, Ludlow, Andover, Knaresborough, Tewkes-
places—at Liverpool, for instance—there would be a greater bury, and Maldon. Thus far, I believe, the list agrees with
number, perhaps 15,000. But than the question is, what. is the list contained in the bill of last year. We go on, how-
the character of those who would thus be added to the con- ever, •to Ripon —(a laugh)-4 'irencester, Huntingdon,
stituency ? I remember asking a gentleman now deceased, Chippenham, Bodmin, Dorchester, Marlow, Devizes, Hert-
Mr. Fletcher, who was inspector under the Poor-law Act,
to take the trouble of going through the manufacturing die- • ford, and Guildford. (Hear, and laughter.) That gives
to 25 seats on the whole, which would have tobetodniospwoisng
tricta and inquiring for me what was the general rent the of by Parliament. Now, we propose that the
highest paid of the working classes gave for their houses, and the
and when he came back he said he thought about £7 a year
counties should return additional members—vie.
Riding of Yorkshire two additionaadldi
members,tionl All
gross rental, or much about the same mem I have men- southern division of Lancashire one the West
turn one additional
tioned. Now, it is difficult to lay down any rule or fin the rest, which I will read, the
any particular amount as regards this class, but I think member, viz., the northern division of Lancashire,
division of Kent, the
if we add what I have stated to the present number
the southern division of
of electors, we should have a greater number of the work- ' county of Middlesex, the wes
southern division of Devonshire,
ding
ing classes included ; and I think it would be a great
riding
southern division of Essex, the
of Yorkshire, the parts of
benefit to our representation and to our constitution to Staffordshire, the north .
Lindsey (Lincolnahirse)m,
Somerset, the western division of Nor-
have this class included (hear, hear) ; and I repeat I do eastern division
of
vi°sion of Cornwall, and the northern
not think that would be any very extravagant number to folk, the
of Yorkshire, and the reason
add to the whole body of electors. (Hear, hear.) Well, division—
sir, I come now to another question—a question of a totally to divide the t
ofw eltetsrne;:sdinitidwtinlgl be seen that we do not propose
is a great repugnance in that vast riding to
different nature, and one on which I think it behoves this ; that
house to consider well as to the changes they make now ormagnificence
be 15 seats given to counties, of which,
haves ittshillerte at all diminished by a partition.
may hereafter make. When I had the honour, 29 years ago, There:
g sense are manufacturing, others are essentially
of introducing a Reform Bill, the task was so very easy thaht
their c haracter. Coming to boroughs,
the general sense of the country condemned places wdhic
ropose that one seat should be given to Kensing-
were mere mounds or ruins, which no person inhabited, and
tonw
Pand Chelsea combined ; that Birkenheid, Staley-
Manchester,which did not allow the representation of such places athgrieoucultural in
the last bridge, and Burnley should in future return one mem-
Leeds, and Birmingham. I rememberd
oeru,r to ob- ber each; and that Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham,
effort I made before the Reform Bill was
mto enoheea;
Leeds, and Leeds should henceforth return three members instead
tain representatives for these three towns,l .
of two. The house may remember that upon a former
that a very con-
and Birmingham; and one would scaarteedayyb7ellieve, unless he
occasion I made a proposition which was not very palatable
looked back to the proceedings of that
against the admis- to the house, and which was certainly not popular in the
siderable majority of this house decidedsion of these great towns to the representation. (Hear, country;
5 viz., that there should be a division of votes ; in
hear.) I think that was a very
don. There were
_rave ques other words, that where there were three members each
-
elector should have only two votes. As that proposition
toco of population ; there were d
certain places that continued have representatives with-
was not very popular, although I think it was a fair an
out having the least semblance
towns. which are the chief •
Just one, I shall not attempt to renew it upon the present
others—among them the great
occasion. I have observed that where there are three
seats of our staple manufactures—in which Parliamentary -
ii there is a growing feeling, arising from a sense of
mern ers
justice,
for future consideration, is a very
representation did note exist. But, sir, the case at the pre-
sent day, and the
ens
to call the attention of this houseshould not be altogether excluded
different one, and I wish fairness and that a very considerable party, thong
I it may be the weaker,
•ew of this case, are circumstances which
to what, in mY 'it ' minority of the
must, I think, have the greatest weight in any decision as be given to it, though constituting a,
from the representation, but that the third member should
what is to be done. There was, more than two centuries
con-
to in which the *culturd
the names of Whig and Tory were ever known, tion of protection and free trade
ago, beforestituency. For a long time, chiefly because of that ques-
those counties which r,ow
a great dispute between two great parties as to the nature deep interest,
counties felt a
of the functions of the House of Commons, The one party—the Conserviatiaa -
party declared and maintained that persons holding the belonging to it"'
possess three membeerspotnicearlally returned gentlernrin all
chief weight in this house should likewise be Ministers i' but, on lookingtaetstne returns made to the last Po.rl4ainent;