The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-09 00:00:00

THE SLAVE TRADE.

Mr. CAVE rose to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs whether his attention had been directed to the Mes-

sage of the President of the United States to Congress, on
the 19th day of May, respecting the slave trade ; and whe-
ther her Majesty's Government had received any recent
communications from the Government of the United States,
or intended making any fresh proposals to that Govern-
ment on this subject ?
Lord J. RUSSELL said it was unfortunately too true
that the slave trade was extensively carried on in Cuba,
between 30,000 and 40,000 slaves being annually im-
ported into the island. It was also true that it was carried
on in contempt of the treaty between this country and
Spain, and that at present there were no efficient means for
suppressing it. This want of efficient means arose from
various causes, one of whioh was, as had been stated by
the hon. gentleman, the jealousy on the part of America of

any regulations that could interfere with the free action of
American vessels. Another cause was the imperfection
of the American law. An article had been introduced by
his noble friend (Lord Palmerston) into some of the treaties
in reference to the slave trade, called the equipment article,
but there was no such provision in the American law. It
therefore ft equently happened that vessels upon the coast
of Africa completely equipped for the slave trade, intending
to embark 200 or 300 slaves in the night-time, and fitted up
for that purpose, had been seen by our cruisers under the
American flag, but they were of course unable to interfere
with them, and though they might point them out to the
American cruisers, still there was no power of interference,
there being no law of the United States which would justify
it. There was also another difficulty with regard to having
no flag. When a British vessel appeared. the slavers hoisted
the American flag, and when an American cruiser appeared
she threw away the flag and destroyed her papers, in which
case the cruiser had no power to seize her, though if a Bri-
tish cruiser were in sight the latter would be enabled to do
so. Her Majesty's Government had proposed to the Govern-
ment of the United States that by keeping the British and
American cruisers in company off the coast of Cuba one
might be prepared for a ease where the American flag was
hoisted, and the other for a case which there was no flag
used at all. The question was now under the consideration
of the American Government, and so far as it had been con-
sidered it seemed to have been favourably received. As yet,
however, no promise had been obtained from the American
Government to amend their law, but the statement they
made was a very well founded one, namely, that it was not
likely that any proposition for rendering the American laws
against slavery more stringent would ever receive the sane
tion of the Congress of the United States. The question
had engaged the attention of her Majesty's Government,
who had in preparation a despatch upon the subject,
which they proposed, to transmit to various governments.
It was doubtless mortifying as well as shocking to feel
that when we had done so much we were
not able to destroy altogether a traffic which
was not only repugnant to all our feelings of
humanity, but was absolutely a direct infringement of
treaties. (Hear, hear.) There was, however, a subject upon
which he thought some good might be effected. The slave
trade had hitherto been extended to China, persons having
been kidnapped and forcibly abducted from their homes by
the most atrocious means. He thought that might be put
a stop to, but there was a distinction between the African
slave trade and that with China. In Africa the traffic had
been fostered by wars and civil contests in which whole
villages had been destroyed by every kind of violence. The
case with respect to China was wholly different, inasmuch
as the people there were highly civilised and subject to
severe laws, and the Government possessed very efficient
powers if they chose to exercise them. It had been hitherto
an object which had been attended with success to employ
the agency of the Chinese Government in putting an end
to kidnapping, and substituting a system of emigration.
He trusted that by these means something would be done
to eradicate the slave trade. When they compared what
was the case many years ago, when 140,000 slaves left
Africa in one year, with the state of circumstances in the
present year, the number having been reduced to 30,000, he
thought they would admit that sufficient progress had been
made in the question to justify them in not abandoning all
Lupo of ulthuat.lr .f Oho
trade. (Hear.)
Mr. S. FITZGERALD reminded the noble lord that he
had not answered his question in reference to the extension
of time for the conversion of ad valorem duties.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had received no official infor-
mation upon the subject.
ENGLISH SHIP WRIGHTS IN FRANCE.

Mr. B. JOHNSTONE said he wished to call the atten-
tion of the house to a question of considerable importance.
Some time ago he had asked the Secretary of the Admiralty
if it was trite that several of the shipwrights of• the dock-
yards had been discharged, and had all gone over to
France. The answer of the noble lord was that he knew
nothing of the matter, but a statement had since ap-
peared in the newspapers which showed that the fact
was precisely as he (Mr. Johnstone) had stated it. He be-
lieved he was quite within the mark in stating that the ac-
tivity in the French dockyards was such that at the present
moment there were no less than 1,200 or 1,500 of our best
dockyard artisans and shipwrighs employed there. If the
) calamity of war between the two countries should arise, it
was true that we might have the pleasure of taking those
ships which those men had helped to build, but still he re-
garded it as a great misfortune that such a state of things
should exist.
Mr. B. OSBORNE bore testimony to the anxiety which
prevailed on this subject. He wished to ask the noble
lord (Lord C. Paget) if he was able to contradict a state-
ment that had been given as the reason for discharging
those men from our dockyards. The reason given, as he
understood, was that there was not two years' supply of
timbers in store. He also wished to ask the Secretary for
Ireland what course he intended to take with regard to
those Irish bills which had been on the paper for so long a
time? (Hear.) There was a bill for the registration of births,
marriages, and deaths, brought in by the Government, and
he believed a bill had been brought in on the same subject
by the noble lord opposite (Lord Naas), which stood fir
that night also, and there were also two Landlord and
Tenant Bills. Ho thought, therefore, it would be very
convenient to gentlemen connected with Ireland, if the Sec-
retary for Ireland would state what course he intended to
take in respect to these bills.
Lord C. P AGET said he perfectly remembered the ques-
tion which the hon. member had put to him some weeks
ago with regard to the discharge of artificers from her Ma-
jesty's dockyard, and who, it was stated had gone to Cher-
bourg to enter the imperial dockyard there. Now that state-
ment had caused a good deal of sensation, which was not con-
fined entirely to this side of the water. The result was that
our consul at Cherbourg wrote to state that there was no
truth whatever in the report of any English workmen having
gone into the imperial dockyards at Cherbourg. He stated,
moreover, that it was contrary to the regulations that an y
foreign artificer should work in the French dockyards; he
added also—which was a still more conclusive argument—
that whereas both in private trade and under the system of
the Royal dockyards in this country the men were earning
about 6s. a day, in France the wages were about 4f. a day.
It was not likely, therefore, English workmen, when there
was plenty of work to be had all round the country, should
go across the water to work for 4f. a day. (Hear.) He
did send, however, to Sir Richard Mayne to inquire whether

any number of men had asked for passports, and he (Sir R.
Mayne) found on making inquiries at the Southwark Police-
court that only one man, named James Bindon (as we un-
derstood), a shipwright by trade, who had been employed in
one of the dockyards but had been lately discharged with a
great number of his fellow-workmen, had applied for a pass-
port, and had proceeded to Cherbourg with several other
men. That was according to the statement of that man,
but he was the only individual who was known to have
asked for a passport, and he was not refused one. It might

be said that the Admiralty had discharged a great number
of men, but he could assure the house such was not the
case. In the winter, when the work was very slack, a good
number of workmen were put on in the dockyards, because
there was a good sum of money in hand. Those men were, as
he said, employed in the winter months, but with a warning
that they would be discharged at the end of the financial
year. But the Admiralty were Anxious that those die-
charges should be very gradual, and'only a very small pro-
portion were discharged, who had no difficulty in finding
occupation elsewhere. But perhaps the hon. gentleman
would not think they were unduly stinted in the dockyards
when he (Lord C. Paget) told him they were now working
there with 17,556 men--(hear)—the greatest number ever
employed at any former period in the present century, the
number employed during the great war with France being
only 14,754. (Hear.) The hon. member for Liskeard
(Mr. B. Osborne) wanted to know whether the men who
had been discharged were sent away in consequence of
there not being. a sufficient quantity of timber in store.
[Mr. OSBORNE observed that he had said that was the rea-
son given.] That might be part of the reason, but they
were not going to keep up in the dockyards that enormous
mass of men. They had already a great number of ships
built, and of course they should fall short of timber if they
were to keep up such a mass of men. But according- to tho
ordinary consumption, they had now two years' stock of

timber in hand, and his hon. friend would find that th-) in-
terests of the country were not neglected.
Mr. R. OSBORNE here intimated that he was per-
fectly satisfi d with the explanations of the noble lord.
Lord C. PAGET continued—The hon. and gallant mem-
ber for Brighton (Sir G. Pechell) had asked him whether it
was the intention of the Admiralty to give the same extra

pay and allowances to the naval forces now in China as to

.hose in India. He was afraid of saying anything which

might hold out hopes which might be disappointed ; but he

could assure his hon. friend that the Admiralty would act

strictly according to the precedent of the day, and would do
all the justice they could to the naval forces employed ; but
he could not distinctly answer the question as to what the
allowances would be. (Hear, hoar )