The Sun.
London, England, 1860-06-02 00:00:00

been sitting upon the subject of the laws regulating
the relations between masters and workmen, and

that a bill had been recommended by them for establishing
a system of arbitration for the settlement of disputes and
the prevention of strikes. Ile (Sir C. Lewis) was not san-
guine of the success of any such scheme, but when that
measure came on for consideration, if the hon. gentleman
had any suggestion to offer for the amendment of the ex-
isting law, that would be a favourable opportunity for sub-
mitting it to the house. (Hear.)
The motion that the house at its rising adjourn to Mon-
day was then put and agreed to.
LEASING AND IMPROVING LAND (IRELAND).
Mr. IVIIITESIDE moved for leave to bring in a bill to
consolidate and amend the laws relating to the powers of
leasing and improving land in Ireland.—Agreed to.

UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES ESTATES BILL,
This bill was read a second time.
SUPPLY (ARMY ESTIMATES).

The report on the votes passed on the previous evening
was brought up and agreed to.
On the order of the day for going into supply on the re-

maining estimates,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked the right hon. gentleman
the Secretary for War whether he had any objection to lay
on the table an estimate of the probable expense of the war
in which we were unfortunately involved with China. In
his opinion, nothing could be more affronting to that house
than that it should be.made acquainted with those expenses
only at the moment at which it was necessary for them to
be paid. If the right hon. gentleman did not furnish the
statement he (Sir H. Willoughby) should make it the sub-
ject of a distinct motion.
Col. S. KNOX inquired whether, on the expiration of the
term of service of the general commanding the brigade of
Guards, it was intended to fill up the vacancy.
Colonel SYKES, referring to the report of the commis-
sioners appointed to inquire into the defences of the
co ones, complained that the Government had done
injustice to two distinguished civilians who had been en-
gaged in that inquiry—namely, Mr. Godley, and Mr. Ha-
milton—their recommendation being that the allowances
mado by the State should be. in proportion to that provided
by the colony, and not that the colonies should be left
wholly to their own resources in providing means of de-
fence. The gallant colonel also urged that the case of those
officers who retired under the warrant of 1826 upon cap-
tain's half-pay, taking a step in rank, had not been fairly
considered. Many of those officers were still living upon
their captain's half-pay, though there was at least an im-
plied pledge in the arrangement under which they retired
from active service that they should have the advantage of
increased pay as they succeeded to the higher ranks by
seniority equally wi:h their contemporaries.
Mr. SHERIDAN said he wished to ask whether any
alteration was intended in the present system of enlist-
'
ment.

Mr. S. HERBERT said that, as there was now no doubt
that we were about to engage in a war with China, he not
only had no objection, but it would be his duty to ask the
house to vote an estimate for that war, which it was his
intention to bring forward at a subsequent period. With
regard to the question of the hon. and gallant colonel op-
posite (Colonel S. Knox), the facts of the case were these.
Formerly the command of the brigade of Guards was un-
dertaken in town by the field officer in waiting—a lieut.-
colonel of one of those regiments. That arrangement pro-
duced bad results, for there was a constant change of
hands, and with it a change of system. It was represented
by Sir Colin Campbell (now Lord Clyde) then Inspector of
Infantry, that he had but little acquaintance with the in-
trinsic economy and financial arrangements of the Guards,
which differed in many respects from those of other regi-
ments. An officer was appointed, accordingly, to command
permanently the brigade of Guards, which, as the house
might be aware, was larger than any other brigades com-
manded by a brigadier in England.
Colonel LINDSAY observed tlf!tt Lord Patmure di-
vided the whole army into brigades, and the Guards were
constituted a brigade under the command of a brigadier.
Sir F. Love, who was now the Inspector of Infantry, had
nothing to do with the interior economy of the various re-
giments.
Mr. S. HERBERT said he believed the Inspector-Ge-
neral could inspect any portion of the infantry.
Colonel KNOX remarked that he never inspected the

Guards,
Mr. S. HERBERT said he did not, but he believed he
could, and ho thought he was correct in stating that the
opinion was expressed by Sir Colin Campbell that from the
peculiar organisation of the Guards there should be a
Guards' officer for the purpose of inspecting them, and
that arrangement had been made. What might be done in
future he was not prepared to say. With regard to the last
question which had been put by the hon. member for
Dudley (Mr. Sheridan), it was one of great difficulty.
Undoubtedly it was the duty of Government to release
those who had been enlisted under false pretences. (Hear.)
The house then went into committee, Mr. MASSBY in the
chair, when a vote of £387,285 was proposed for miscel-
laneous charges.
Colonel KNOX said the first vote brought under their
consideration was for the staff of the depot battalions. Now
there was but one opinion among officers as to that sys-
tem, namely, that it was the most vicious system that could
be imagined. He thought the system of depot battalions
was the worst system that could be imagined, and the most
expensive. He hoped, therefore, that this vote would not
appear again in the estimates.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS called attention to the increase in
the hospital estimates from £90,000 last year to £148,000
this year. He should be glad if the right hon. gentleman
would give some explanation. The hon. member was pro-
ceeding to direct the attention of the committee to the in-
crease of other items in detail, when
An HON. MEMBER moved that the house be counted, but
The CHAIRMAN ascertaining that 40 members were
present, business proceeded.
Sir DE LACY EVANS said there was generally a very
competent officer chosen to command these battalions, but
he believed that every one of these officers felt that the task
imposed upon them was extremely difficult, and he did hope
the authorit es would see the importance of organising an-
other system. (Hear.) Nothing of the same kind existed
in foreign armies, but they had arrangements in substitu-
tion, which he would suggest should be inquired into by
the Government with a view to an alteration at home.
Mr. F. SMITH said that the whole system was so de-
fective that the sooner it was changed the better.
The hon. member was proceeding to comment upon other
portions of the votes when it was moved that the house be
counted. There were then only 21 members present, but
before the sandglass run down a sufficient number had en-
tered to constitute a house.
Col. LINDSAY called attention to the result of our pre-
sent system of colonial reliefs after length of service in India
and our colonies. It was complained that we did not, under
our present recruiting system, get the kind of men wo
wanted, or so good in character as was desirable. He be-
lieved that the length of service in India and in our colo-
nies had much to do with the disinclination of the best of
the working classes to enter the army; and, by a properly-
administered system of transport, much might be done to
promote more frequent reliefs, and make the period of ser-
vice abroad shorter.
Col. SYKES complained that the estimates were defec-
tive in one very essential point. They gave the cost of each
item for this year, as compared with the last, under the
same head, for last year ; but they gave members no means
of judging whether the increase was justified or not.
Col. DICKSON said that a great deal had been said
against the depot battalions, and especially that they were
not good schools for young officers. That might have been
true of them when they were first established, but he had
lately had the opportunity of seeing a good deal of their
working, and he found a very great improvement in them.
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said that some surprise had
been expressed at there being an increase in the cost of
cavalry horses, but it must be recollected that they had to
remount the Indian cavalry, which were returning home,
and this would account for the increase in this particular
item. It was said that they could get cheaper horses
abroad, and that the military horses on the Continent were
not as much used up as they were here. That was true,
for he believed we used our horses up more than any other
country, and we did so when our horses were young. With
respect to the observations of the hon. member behind him,
in reference to the health of the army, ho felt bound to say
there was a marked improvement in the health of the
army ; and during the last two or three years there had
been a great improvement in the hospitals for the army.
He might here observe that all these matters cost money.
Reference had also been made to the expense of the escort
service. Well, if they were to have an effective escort ser-
vice they must pay for it. The value of this service was
shown in the fact that, whereas in 1858-59 the desertions
amounted to 7,547 men, they were reduced in 1859-GO to
4,652. Then, as reprded the expense incidental to the
movement of troops, he would observe that it was deemed
advisable by all military authorities that troops should not
be allowed to remain too long in any one place, and amongst
the objections to their doing so the men got married. Well,
this led to great inconvenience in regard to barrack accom-
modation, and in various places they had to build improved
quarters for the accommodation of married men. When the
men got married of course it was desirable that this improved
accommodation should be afforded to them, but then all this
led to expense, and when they considered the fact of men
entering only for short service, namely, for ten years, ho
saw no reason why such men should marry, the result of
which led to such inconvenience, and caused such perma-
nent expense to the country for barrack accommodation, and
from other causes. lle might add that this year he had made
a reduction in the estimate as regarded the movement
of troops. An hon. member had spoken of the pay of a
lieutenant-general having been struck off at Malta. This
was true, and it was to be accounted for by the fact that
the civil and military functions of the island had been placed
in the same hands. There was a governor of a colony and
a military governor, and both offices had been continued in
the person of Sir Gaspard Le Merchant, and Gen. Penne-
father, who had command of the troops at Malta, had re-
turned home. An hon. gentleman had complained that
sufficient details were not given in these estimates ; but he
believed thntras a-matter of. fact, they would be more gene-
rally intelligible if there were fuller details. It would be
impossible to attend to all the suggestions made by the hoi.
gentleman with regard to the estimates ; and in all proba-