The Sun.
London, England, 1860-04-03 00:00:00

NAVIGATION LAWS.

Sir G. C. LEWIS presented the reply of her Majesty to
the address in reference to the alteration in the commercial
relations between this country and France respecting the
navigation laws.
NICE AND SAVOY.

Lord J. RUSSELL laid on the table some additional
correspondence relative to the annexation of
Savoy and Nice. Her Majesty's Governmentin-
tended to keep separate the question of annexa-
tion of these provinces and their neutrality. In the
correspondence which he laid on the table, there were
papers from the Government of Switzerland which were of
great importance, for they contained a request for
the interference of the powers of Europe, through the me-
dium of a conference ; into that conference her Majesty's
Government had no objection to enter. (Hear, hear.)
BUOYS AND BEACONS.
Mt. RIDLEY asked the President of the Board of Trade
whether the Commissioners appointed on the 3d day of
December, 1858, to inquire into the condition and manage-
ment of lights, buoys, and beacons, had made their report;
and if so, when he would lay it on the table ?
Mr. M. GIBSON said that the report in question had
net been received.

DURHAM UNIVERSITY.
Mr. MOWBRAY moved an address for return of the
number of graduates of the University of Durham, dis-
tinguishing their several degrees, and also distinguishing
those admitted ad eundunz and those upon whom honorary
degrees have been conferred, and, in the case of graduates
who are of the degree of bachelors of arts, distinguishing
those who' are of not less than three years' standing, and
those who have passed their examination for the degree of
master of arts.—Ordered.

UNIVERSITIES.
Mr. BYNG moved an address for return of the number
of graduates of the different Universities of the United
Kingdom, distinguishing their several degrees, those ad-
mitted ad eundum, and those upon whom honorary de-
green have been conferred.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord J. RUSSELL moved that upon Thursday after
Easter until NiThitsuntide, the Government orders of the
day should have precedence of notices of motion.
Col. W. PA.TTEN strongly objected to the motion. The
fact was, the present Government had gradually encroached
on the privileges of private members, who were consequently
deprived of their legitimate tights. He considered that in
the motion before the house a very dangerous innovation
was sought to be introduced, and there was nothint, in the
state of Governmental measures or public business that
required the establishment of a novel precedent.
Lerd PAWZERSTON considered that hon. members
had no just ground of complaint as regarded the motion of
his noble friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, as tkat
motion originated simply from a desire on the part of her
Majesty's Government to despatch public business. (Hear,
hear.) He contended that the motion grew out of
the emergency of the time, and was in conformity with the
requirements of the public service. (Hear, hear.) In fact,
all that was asked by the motion was merely to consent
in an early period of the session to that which
they would feel called on to do at a later period.
(Rear, hear. lie put to the good sense of the j

house whether, under the present state of public business,
when the Government had been obliged to bring forward
measures that were usually deferred till a later period,
they should not accede to a motion like the present. The
object of that motion was to afford the house an
opportunity of disposing of business indispensable
to the interests of the public service. Hon. members might
consider that there was an attempt to encroach unduly en the
privileges of private members, but the fact was,
and it would be demonstrated, that the Government
had only Monday and a part of another day
to bring forward its measures. (Oh, oh.) He repeated
that statement; for although Friday stood as a Government
day, according to the programme of public business, still the
fact was that private members availed themselves of the
opportunity afforded them by the technical forms of the
house, and brought forward motions which sometimes led
to protracted discussions, and delayed the pro-
gress of Government measures. He had showed
on a previous occasion that private members
should not be deprived of the means of bringing forward
their motions, but at the same time it was only due to Go-
vernment, which was charged with the conduct of public
business to afford them ample opportunity of bringing their
measures forward, and to carry them through without un-
necessary delay. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI considered that the motion was of an
unconstitutional character, and not required by any special
exigency of the public service. He believed that if adopted
it would be the means of introducing into the
business of the House of Commons a precedent that
might be dangerous. With regard to the feeling of the
house, he thought that Government had no reason to com-
plain, because there had been every disposition exhibited
by hon. members to afford facility for the progress of Go-
vernment bills. Ho contended that the present motion
was uncalled for.
Sir J.-PARIN GTON reminded the noble lord that the
delay in the progress of the Reform Bill was not justly at-
tributable to the Opposition, but rather to the Government
themselves. He had been led to expect that the discussion
on the second reading would have been renewed this week,
and it was entirely of their own motion that it had been
postponed to the day for which it now stood. (Hear, hear.)
He hoped the noble lord would not press this motion, but
that the Government would be content with asking fer the
Thursdays after Whitsuntide instead of before.
Lord STANLEY did not remember any session in which
the Government had taken for their own business so much
of the time which, according to the ordinary practice of the
house, belonged to private members.
Lord J. RUSSELL reminded his noble friend that when
the Government had taken Thursday evenings for forward-
ing their measures it was after the notices of motions had
been disposed of—a course to which he could hardly con-
ceive any objection could be made. (Hear, hear.) His hon.
friend (Mr. Rich) thought the present arrangement satis-
factory, because it was the old established practice. Now,
what was the working of this old established practice ? A
number of important bills were brought in by the Govern-
ment at an early period of the session—take as an instance
the Bankruptcy Bill; it was brought forward with great
form, it was afterwards read a second time with still greater
form, a discussion ensued, objections were made to parti-
cular clauses which at first sight appeared might be easily'
disposed of, but which, when the bill came to
discussed in committee, swelled into importance, 4:1
it was then found that questions were., not r d
from any captious motive, but involvdd/toints clystrv-
ing of consideration, and which tl t hciiise fount/ itself
under the necessity of maturely considering and' decid-
ing. Well, all this took time, and the month of July
perhaps ar. ived beforethey wore 'in a position to proceed
to the third reading kid send the bill ap to the House of
Lords as a completed measure. That, of course, was too
late`for the House of Lords to go into the many details of
a measure of that kind, and the result was that the whole
of the time, and the whole of the legislative skill and abi-
lity which had been devoted to the measure was lost.
(Hear.) The wish of the Government was, if possible, to
improve that system. They thought that instead of having
so many discussions on a measure, it would be better to
have one good debate. If such a system wore objected to
he thought the suggestion of the hon. member for Kent
would be an improvement. They could give the whole of
Fridays to independent members, and the Government
would get Thursdays.
Sir G. GREY proposed to add to the motion the words,
" And that notices of motion have precedence over orders
on Fridays." The effect of that would be that between
Easter and Whitsuntide they would make the experiment.
Members would bring forward their notices on Tuesdays
and Fridays, and the Government would have Mondays
and Thursdays.
Mr. DISRAELI inquired whether the motion, repealing
as it did one of the standing orders, could be entertained
without a longer notice.
The SPEAKER replied that the motion would not re-
peal the standing order, more than a notice that orders of
the day should have precedence on a particular day.
Sir G. GREY added that the standing ender itself con-
tained the limiting words, " unless the house shall other-
wise
direct."
The house then divided on the question that the amend-
ment be added to the resolution :
Ayes
Noes 126
Majority
On the question that the motion as amended be agreed to,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY expressed an opinion that it was
a very unwise one, and that it would extend indefinitely
that sort of general conversazione which took place every
Friday night. It would be far better to make a rule that
Government orders of the day should he proceeded with at
a certain hour, say seven o'clock. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. NEWDEGATE again objected to the question
being entertained until after Easter.
Col. W. PATTEN supported the motion as avowedly
an experiment.
Mr. B. COCHRANE remarked that if the Government
insisted on forcing a motion of this kind on the house,
they (the Government) must not be surprised if indepen-
dent members insisted on taking every opportunity that
might offer itself to them for bringing forward questions
which they thought of importance.
Mr. BENTINCK protested against the idea that this
would be only an experiment ; it would be a precedent, and
if independent members were really to submit to this sort
of oppression—(laughter)—the sooner they put on their
hats and retired into the country the better. (Hear.)
The house then divided—

Ayes
Noes ll7
Majority
The motion was then carried.
Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, in consequence of the vote to
which the house has just arrived, considerable changes
must take place in the conduct of public business. In the
course of a few hours the house will adjourn ; and it would
be convenient if the noble lord will give us some informa-
tion as to the mode in which the public business will be

conducted after Easter. I would remind the house that

there are two subjects of great importance generally, and
particularly to the great Liberal party, namely, the mea-
sure for the abolition of church-rates, and the measure for
the reform of the House of Commons. Now it so happens
that by the change which has taken place in the order of
business, it is impossible for the church-rate question, which
is a notice of motion, to come on on Thursday, which has
now become an order day, and the notice given by the noble
lord the Secretary of State for the resumption of the debate
on the second reading of the Reform Bill cannot now come
on on Friday, the 20th—(Opposition cheers)—because that
order day is transformed into a notice day. Now, it would
be very much to our convenience if the noble lord would in-
form us when the discussion on the second reading of the
Reform Bill will be resumed. ; and also, should the hon
baronet the member for Tavistock (Sir J. Trelawny) be in
the house, if he will favour us by stating what are his in-
tentions with regard to the third reading of the Church
Rates Abolition Bill. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, the arrangements proposed
are, that we should take the navy estimates on Monday
after the re-assembling of the house • on Thursday the
iinanos; and on the Monday following the second reading
of the Reform Bill.
Mr. MALINS said that there was a bill of extraordinary
length, consisting of 570 clauses, before the house—the new
bankruptcy bill—he bogged to know when that would be
taken.

Lord PALMERSTON said he could not then answer
the question.
Colonel P. HERBERT said that with regard to the
money estimates the house had been informed that they had
been delayed in consequence of the return of several regi-
ments from India. As this must necessarily occasion great
delay, he begged to ask upon what day they would be pre-
sented again.
Mr. S. HERBERT said that a considerable portion of
these estimates had to be reprinted, and he would lay them
on the table on the first day the house met after the recess.