The Sun.
London, England, 1860-04-03 00:00:00

BUOYS' AND BEACONS.
_ _

Mr. RIDLEY asked the PreeidenToitheßoard of Wrade
whether the Commissioners appointed on the 3d day of
December, 1858, to inquire into the condition and manage-
ment of lights, buoys, and beacons, had made their report;
and if so, when he would lay it on the table ?

Mr. M. GIBSON said that the report question had
not been received.
DURHAM UNIVERSITY.

Mr. MOWBRAY moved, an address for return of the
number of graduates of the Univerlity of Durham, dis-
tinguishing their several degrees, end also distinguishing
those admitted ad eundum and those upon whom honorary
degreei have been conferred, and, in the ease of -graduates
who are of the degree of bachelors of arts, distinguishing
those, who are of not less than three years' standing, and
those who have passed their examination for the degree of
master of arts.—Ordered. • • ' •

- UNIVERSITIES.
Mr. BYNG moved an achliless for return of .the number
of graduates of the different 'UniverSities of the United
Kingdom, distinguishing their several degree.s, those ad-
mitted ad eunthrn, and those upon. whom honorary de-
grees Lave been conferred.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord' J.' ItUSSELL moved that upon Thursday after
Easter until Whitsuntide, the GoVernment orders of the
day should have precedenc:i of notices of motion.'
Col. W. PATTEN strongly obitscted to the motion. The
fact was, the present Government had gradually encroached
on the privileges of private members, who were consequently
deprived of their legitimate rights. He considered that in
the motion before the house a very dangerous innovation
was sought to be introduced, and there was nothing in the
state of Gov3rnmental measures or public business that
required the establishment of a novel. precedent:
- Lord PAN:iaItSTON considered that hen. members
had no just ground
of complaint as regarded the motion of
his noble frietd the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, as that
motion originated simply from a desire on the part of her
Majesty's Government to despatch public business. (Hear,
hear.) He' contended that the motion grew ' out of
the emergency of the time, and was in conformity with the
requirements of the p ablic service. (Hear, hear.) Inlet,
all that was asked I ly the motion was merely to consent
in an early period of the session to that which
they would feel called on to do at a later period.
(Hear, hear. Ile put to the good sense of the

house whether, under the present state of public business,
when the Government had been obliged to bring forward
measures that were usually deferred till a later period,
they should not accede to a motion like the present. The
object of that motion was to afford the Louse an
opportunity of disposing of business indispensable
to the interests of the public service. Hon. members might
consider that there was an attempt to encroach unduly en the
privileges of private members, but the fact was,
and it would be demonstrated, that the Government
had only Monday and a part of another day
to bring forward its measures. (Oh, oh.) He repeated
that statement; for although Friday stood as a Government
day, according to the programme of public business, still the
fact was that private members availed themselves of the
opportunity afforded them by the technical forms of the
house, and brought forward motions which sometimes led
to protracted discussions, and delayed the pro-
gress of Government measures. He had showed
on a previous occasion that private members
should not be deprived of the means of bringing forward
their motions, but at the same time it was only due to Go-
vernment, which was charged with the conduct of public
business to afford them ample opportunity of bringing their
measures forward, and to carry them through without un-
necessary delay. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DISRAELI considered that the motion was of an
unconstitutional character, and not required by any special
exigency of the public service. He believed that if adopted
it would be the means of introducing into the
business of the House of Commons a precedent that
might be dangerous. With regard to the feeling of the
house, he thought that Government had no reason to com-
plain, because there had been every disposition exhibited
by hon. members to afford facility for the progress of Go-
vernment bills. Ho contended that the present motion
was uncalled for.
Sir J. PAKIN GTON reminded the noble lord that the
delay in the progress of the Reform Bill was not justly at-
tributable to the Opposition, but rather to the Government
themselves. He had been led to expect that the discussion
on the second reading would have been renewed this week,
and it was entirely of their own motion that it had been
postponed to the day for which it now stood. (Hear, hear.)
He hoped the noble lord would not press this motion, but
that the Government would be content with asking far the
Thursdays after Whitsuntide instead of before.
Lord STANLEY did not remember any session in which
the Government had taken for their own business so much
of the time which, according to the ordinary practice of the
house, belonged to private members.
Lord J. RUSSELL reminded his noble fiend that when
the Government had taken Thursday evenings for forward-
ing their measures it was after the notices of motions had
been disposed of—a course to which he could hardly con-
ceive any objection could be made. (Hear, hear.) His hon.
friend (Mr. Rich) thought the present arrangement satis-
factory, because it was the old established practice. Now,
what was the working of this old established practice ? A
number of important bills were brought in by the Govern-
ment at an early period of the session—take as an instance
the Bankruptcy Bill; it was brought forward u th great
form, it was afterwards read a second time with still greater
form, a discussion ensued, objections were made to par ii-
cular clauses which at first sight appeared might be easily
disposed of, but which, when the bill came to be
discussed in committee, swelled into importance, and
it was then found that questions were not raised
from any captious motive, but involved points deserv-
ing of consideration, and which the house found itself
under the necessity of maturely considering and decid-
ing. Well, all this took time, and the month of July
perhaps arrived before they were in a position to proceed
to the third reading and send the bill up to the House of
Lords as a completed measure. That, of course, was too
late for the House of Lords to go into the many details of
a measure of that bind, and the result was that the whole
of the time, and the whole of the legislative skill and abi •
lity which had been devoted to the measure was lost.
(Hear.) The wish of the Geyer-uncut was, if possible, to
improve that system. They thought that instead of having
so many discussions on a measure, it would be better to
have one good debate. If such a system were objected to
he thought the suggestion of the hon. member for Kent
would be en improvement. They could give the whole of
Fridays to independent members, and the Government
would get Thursdays.
Sir G. GREY proposed to add to the motion the words,
" And that notices of motion have precedence over orders
on Fridays." The effect of that would be that between
Easter and Whitsuntide they would make the experiment.
Members would bring forward their notices on Tue,sdays
and Fridays, and the Government would have Mondays
and Thursdays.
Mr. DISRAELI inquired whether the motion, repealing
as it did one of the standing orders, could be entertained
without a longer notice.

The SPEAKER replied that the motion would not re-
peal the standing order, more than a notice that orders of
the day should have precedence on a particular day.
Sir G. GREY added that the standing older itself con-
tained the limiting words, " unless the house shall other-
wise direct."
The house then divided on the question that the amend-
ment be added to the resolution :

Ayes ..
Noes 126
Majority

On the question that the motion as amended be agreed to,
Sir H. WILLOUGHBY expressed an opinion that it was
a veiy unv, ;le one, a-id that it would extend indefinitely
that sort of general conversazione which took place every
Friday night. It would be far better to make a rule that
Government orders of the day should he proceeded with at
a certain hour, say seven o'clock. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. NEWDEGATE again objected to the question
being entertained until after Easter.
Col. W. PATTEN supported the motion as avowedly
en experiment.

Mr. B. COCIIRANE remarked thai if the Government
insisted on forcing a motion of this kind on the house,
they (the Government) must not be surprised if indepen-
dent members insisted on taking every opportunity that
might offer itself to them for bringing forward questions
which they thought of importance.
Mr. BENTINCK protested against the idea that this
would be only an experiment ; it would be a precedent, and
if independent members were really to submit to this sort
of oppression—(laughter)—the sooner they put on their
hats and retired int 6 the country the better. (Hear.)

The house then divided—
Ayes
Noes ll7
Majority
The motion was then carried.

Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, in consequence of the vote to
which the house has just arrived, considerable changes
must take place in the conduct of public business. In the
course of a few hours the house will adjourn ; and it would
be convenient if the noble lord will give us some informa-
tion as to the mode in which the public busineis will be
concluded after Easter. I would remind the house that
there are tivo subjects of great importance. generally, and
. .
particularly to the great Liberal party, namely, the mea-
sure for the abolition of chureh4ates, and the measure for
the reform of the House of Commons. Now it'so happens
that by the change which has taken place in the order of
business; it is impossible for the church-rate question, which
is a notice of motion, to come on on Thursday, which has
now became an order day, and the notice given by the noble
lord the Secretary of State for the resumption of the debate
on the second reading of the Reform Bill cannot now come
on on Friday, the 20th—(Opposition cheers)—because that
order day is transformed into a notice day.. Now, it Would
be Tory much to our convenience if the noble lord would in.;
form us when the discussion on the second reading of the
Reform Bill will be resumed ; and also, should the hon
baronet the member for fiavistock (Sir J. Trelawny) be in
,the house, if he will favour us by stating what are his in,
tentions with regard to the third reading of the Church
Rates Abolition Bill. (Hear, hear.)
Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, the arrangements proposed
are, that we should take the navy estimates on Monday
after the re-assembling of tke house ; on Thursday the
finance; and on the Monday following, the second reading
of the Reform Bill.

Mr. MALINS said that there was a bill of extraordinary
length, consisting of 570 clauses, before the houser--the new
bankruptcy bill—he begged to know when that 'wthild be
taken.
Lord PALMERSTON said he could not then answer
the question.
Colonel P. HERBERT said that with regard to the
money estimates the house had been informed that they had
been delayed in consequence of the return of several regi-
ments from India. As this must necessarily occasion great
delay, he begged to ask upon what day they would be pre-
sented again.
Mr. S. HERBERT said that a considerable portion of
these estimates had to be reprinted, and he would,lay them
on the table on the first day the house met after the recess,

SARDINIA AND THE DUCHIES.
Mr. HENNESSY asked the Secretary of State for
Foreign Affairs whether the Government had advised her
Majesty to recognise the annexation of Bologna, Tuscany',
Modena, and Parma to the king,dem'of Sardinia ; and if so,;
whether he was prepared to state the reasons which, had in-
ciltced the Government to tender such advice to her Majesty.;
Lord RUSSELL—Sir, in reply to the question of-thee,
hen; gentleman, I beg to State that the King of Bardini-a:,
has not taken any new title, but his dominions have been
enlarged by the annexation of Lombardy ; and I have no
hesitation in saying that we have adVised her Majesty to
consider the new part of the King of Sardinia's dominions;
as forming part of his 'kingdom. The hon. gentleman pro-.
tably knows that as soon- as the Austrian troops left Bo-
logna, the Papal authorities left it likewise, and the country
was left without any Government. In Tuscany, as-soon as
the Grand Duke left Florence, the grand ducal authorities,
also left, At Modena the same thing occurred. The Duchess ;
of Parma shoWed more courage and determination than the;
oth"4—(hcar)—but still she was obliged to leave her.do-
Lia,ns. These different states have re-constituted them-
., v6s of their own accord, and annexed themselves. to the
aominions of the Ring of Sardinia. If the hon. gentleman '
wishes to go further into the matter and in luire into the
causes-which. induced the people of those states to leave

at 30 w9JSI

their former sovereigns, and their motives for so doing, he
will have to give notice of a motion on the subject.
Mr. B. COCHRANE asked whether the noble lord ob-
jected to lay bn the table any correspondence between the
Government and the charge d'affaires at Rome.
Lord J. RUSSELL said there was no charge d'affaires
at Rome ; there was only an attache to the legation at
Florence. He had laid on the table from time to time seve-
ral letters addressed by that gentleman. to the home govera-
, ment, and he did not think that there were any others.