The Sun.
London, England, 1869-06-30 00:00:00

EZIZIT 0 iii lUP 1,!7_7 :TOT_TIINALS,

The Times-tumid-ea that the consideration of the Irish
Church Bill by the Peers in committee Las begun reason-
ably well. The course of Tuesday's debate brought out,
however, much more important results than the division
on the Archbishop of Canterbury's amendment. It
became irresistibly clear that the Lords would in due time
approve by a considerable majority the proposal of th•
Duke of Cleveland. Lord Grey and the Bishop of
Oxford, in language much too wide for practical
use, declared broadly in favour of the principle
of concurrent endowment. The Times concurs neither
in their reasons nor in their conclusions, but those
who are ready to divide all the surplus revenues of the
Irish Establishment among the different communions of the
sister island may be safely reckoned as supporters of a pro-
posal to apply a limited portion of the surplus in affording
the shelter of a house and home to the ministers of its
Churches. It is, indeed, sufficiently known that a very
large section—very nearly one-half—of those who are com-
monly relied upon as trusty Ministerial supporters have
resolved to vote with the Duke of Cleveland ; and, before
the debate was over for the evening, the independent forces
of the Opposition were mustered on the same side. Lord
Salisbury pronounced in favour of the Duke's proposal, and
he did so on grounds which commended themselves heartily
to a vast number of the Peers on the Opposition benches.
It is impossible to admit any dereliction from equal jus-
tice in dealing with the Irish Church ; and we must there-
fore relinquish all hope of tenderness, or exhibit the same
moderate sympathy with all the forms of religious life in
Ireland. The suggestion of the Duke of Cleveland affords
the nation the means of reconciling its divergent wishes.
By placing at the disposal of Presbyterian and Roman
Catholic congregations the means of building houses of
residence for their ministers we shall be enabledto release
to the Protestant clergymen their parsonages and glebes,
and be at once just, merciful, and wise.

The Standard says that the Opposition scored their first
victory in the Lords on Tuesday on the amendment to the
second clause, moved by the Archbishop of Canteaury;
postponing the operation of the Irish Church Bill from
the year 1871 to 1872. The many good reasons to be
assigned for that alteration arc obvious, and it is
surprising that Lord Granville should not have made
so trifling a concession at once. He was wrong
as a politician in not giving up so small a point
when be had so much to ask for, and equally
wrong as a tactician in developing so soon the
active hostility of the Peers to the principles of
his bill. It is not a prudent thing unnecessarily to defy
a large majority. Yet Lord Granville did this, and the
result is a defeat of the Government by a majority of
nearly two to one, the numbers being for the amendment
130, and against it 74. We think the friends of the Irish
Church may look hopefully on the opening of the cam•
paign in the Upper House. It has developed fully th
strength of the Opposition and the weakness of the
Government—their " miserable minority," to borrow
Liberal phraseology. If Mr. Gladstone has, as is said,
declared that he will have " the bill, the whole bill, and
nothing but the bill," the success of the amendment of
the Archbishop of Canterbury is very menacing.

The Herald admits that on Tuesday Earl Grey took an
irregular course in opposing the postponement of the
preamble of the Irish Church Bill-Ltbe one precedent
he cited in his support really tole' against him—but there
are occasions when the departure from the ordinary and
admittedly convenient rule is not only excusable but useful.
and this was decidedly cne of them. A cliv ision upon such
a point would have been absurd, and might have been mis-
chievous. Earl Grey judiciously abstained from taking
one. A discussion of the question of what is called con-
current endowment—the phrase, as Lord Salisbury said,
is not a good one, but it is convenient—touched upon
incidentally, and rather as one of no practical importance
in the debate upon the second reading, but raised directly
by Earl Grey's proposition, was most desirable before the
committee arrived at the clauses determining the pecuniary
position of the disestablished Church, and disposing of
such surplus of its property as might remain after this
provision had been made. Such a discussion, worthy of
the House of Lords and of the very important question
around which it turned, Earl Grey succeeded in raising.

The Star thinks that the country cannot too soon under-
stand that the discussion of the Irish Church Bill in the
House of Lords is to take the form of a deliberate endea-
vour to secure the.endowment of the Roman Catholic reli-
gion in Ireland. Any zealous partisan who hied to the
gallery of the Upper House on. Tuesday to witness th-e
salvation of those Protestant interests which Mr.
Gladstone is accused of betraying,, must have drunk
the very dregs- of the cup of disappoint
merit in hearing, not only Lord Grey, - Lord
Salisbury, Lord Westbury, and the Bishop of
St. David's, but the Bishop of Oxford himself, advocr.i,
ing, the assignment of the bulk of the property of the
Church to the Roman Catholics. There have beet, tin:es
When euch a united resolve to provide the Roman
Catholic communion with State means would have denoted
a great advance in liberality. At the present moment it
is a lamentable retrogression—a wilful waste of the good
fruits of well-grown political intelligence. The night's
proceedings were not on the whole encouraging
for those who look fur the avoidance of gray,-
differences between the two Houses of Parliament.
The vote postponing disestablisliment till 1F72 spew
that the Peers will snatch at the most shadowy scraps
of comfort, and the agreement as to concurrent endowment
was ominously general. But it is satisfactory that such
speakers as Lord Grey, Lord Salisbury, Bishop Wilber-
force, and Lord Westbury utterly failed to place levelling
up in a more favourable position than it has occupied
since Mr. Gladstone passed his statesmanlike condemna-
tion upon it in the old House of Commons.

The Post remarks that an attempt on the part of the
Legislature to put down betting pure and simple would
be pure and simple folly, and indicative of impractical
statesmanship. To suppress betting in its various phases
it would be necessary to follow the broker and the jobber
into the Stock Exchange, the free-born Briton into his
club or his " castle," and even the merchant or manu-
facturer into his counting-house. The same principle
really pervades all these—that is to say, the staking
or venturing of money on eventualities. All that can be
done is to give no official encouragement to betting
or gambling, and to endeavour to check such forms of the
evil as are found to be positively injurious to the public.
Betting in itself could not possibly be' construed into an
offence against the Government of a country. It is the
mischievous effects following the abuse of it that alone
justifies official interference. It has been urged that if
betting offices are suppressed, in all equity and logic Tat-
tersall's must not be allowed to escape. There cannot,
it is said, be one law for the rich and one fur the poor ;
and if the law as it stands cannot reach the great
centre of betting, there must be one made to
do so. This line of argument is perfectly shal-
low and fallacious. Only a very small portion of
well-to-do persons, who wish to speculate on the Turf,
belong to Tattersall's, and those who do not must very
often resort to these offices, which are erroneously supposed
to be made use of solely by people in humble circumstances.
As to the suggestion that if the law cannot-reach Tatter-
sail's it should be made to do so, if that Were attempted it
would speedily be seen that the House of Commons is not
to be misled by the ignorant claptrap which has been put
forth on this part of the subject.
The Daily News declares that trapeze accidents are now
among the regular claimants for notice in the newspapers.
A week rarely passes without some mishap of the kind,.
and sometimes men and sometimes women are the victims
of the public appetite for this brutal form of entertain-
ment. A peculiarly shocking case has just reached a
fatal termination at 'Windsor. On the 2nd of June, 7
man named Frederick 'Thurrell was performing at tin
Wallington Music Irall,urt the royal borough, together
with another man ;named Henry Julian, when
Thurrell missed one, of the ropes, and both
men fell. Julian. was unhurt, but the other was
so injured in the spine that first paralysis of the
limbs and then mortification resulted ; and, after linger-
ing fur some weeks in the infirmary, the unfortunate per-
former died' on Saturday. To the verdict of "Accidental
death," tie coroner's jury added that " no one connected
with the hall or the performance was to blame ; " and
technivally this may have been so, but in a higher sense
all m-anagers of places of public amusement are very much
to '..dame for allowing dangerous exhibitions to take place
in their theatres or rooms.. That the chief fault.lies witl-
tly; public themselves is very true ; but the existence of a
di prayed taste does not." justify its gratification. If
ro appeal to the better feelings of audiences and
-inanagers is 'of any use in putting a stop to these
:Lmusements—and it is to be feared that such ie
the case the Legis!ature must consider whetl.e-
it is not bound to make exhibitions of this nature illegal.
No doubt there are difficulties in the way of such a course :
but nothise; is more demoralising to a nation than a love
of spectacles involving hazard to the lives and limbs of the
operators. It was often remarked at the time when
Blondin and Leotard were executing their perilous feats,
that, if they met with no accidents themselves, they would
be the cause of numerous accidents to other people, o'6'l
clumsy imitators. Our English performers (who generally
strive to mask their nationality under romantic French
and Italian names) seem wanting in the fine address of 01
real continental "artists ;" and hence repeated falls
broken limbs, injured spines, and premature deaths.

THE MARQUIS OF HASTINGS'S EFFECTS.—The
remaining effects of the late Marquis of Hastings, remover]
from the mansion, Donington Park, Leicestershire, have
been submitted to public competition by Mr. Phillips,
his great rooms, in New Bonet _street.

IMPERIAL 2ARLIA gEN

HOUSE OF LORDS.- LAST EVENING.

The LORD GUANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack
at five o'clock.
THE IRISH CHURCH BILL.

The Earl of DERBY presented five petitions against
the passing of this bill.

Lord LONGFORD presented similar petitions, one being
particularly acainst the 67th clause.
The house, at a quarter past five, was not by any means
so fully attended as on the occasion of the second reading
of the bill. Amongst those in front of the throne was Mr.
Gladstone, and shortly after tho Premier took up his posi-
tion, Earl Granville, the leader of the Ministerial side,
entered, supporting himself on crutches.
On the mot'on that the house go into committee on this
bill,

The Earl of DENBIGH en'ered into a general defence
of the Roman Catholics of Ireland from the charges that
Lad been made against them, and said that they did
not agree to the proposition that was about to
be made to the house for the placing them on an
equality with every other portion of her Majesty's sub-
jects. He thought that the proposal was a most gene-
rous one, but he personally should have had much plea-
sure bad the Government determined to deal with
the land question before they took into their considera-
tion the position of the Irish Church. John Bull had
had two marriages ; by the first he had left a
Catholic family, and by the second a Protestant one ; and,
as these marriages generally result, the first get the rod,
whilst those of the second get all the pleasure ; in other
words, one gets the kicks, the other the halfpence. The
Catholics of Ireland were not insensible to kindness.
The noble earl asked what would be the effect upon the
loyalty of the Roman Catholics if it were thrown out. He
(the Earl of Denbigh) did not think that it would weaken
the loyalty of the latter class, because with them loyalty is
an instinct and a religious duty. It bad been said that in
voting for the present bill the Catholics were voting
against their principles, but he could not assent to that.
The Roman Catholics regarded the bill as a real act of
justice, as it removed the badge of conquest and abolished
Protestant ascenlancy.
The house then went into committee on the bill.

On the motion that the preamble be postponed,
Earl GREY objected most strenuously to such a pro-
posal, as the preamble referred to the disposal of the
surplus and other matters, with respect to
which notice had been given of amendments.
It was said that the great object the Government had in
view in pressing fo:ward the bill was to restore happi-
ness to a great portion of the Roman Catholic subjects
of her Majesty in Ireland, but he could not
think that that object would be obtained by stripping
the Established Church in Ireland of every farthing it
possessed, beyond that with which the bare necessaries
were to be supplied. He strongly objected to various
parts of the bill, more particularly the 68th claase, which
carried out the disendowment of the Church most
thoroughly, but he contended the proper course to adopt
was to discuss what was to be done with the surplus pro-
perty of the Church before they proceeded to discuss what
the other provisions of the bill were. The time had now
arrived when it was most important that they should say
whether they were going to adopt the voluntary principle,
because from the many statements that had been made it
could not be clearly ascertained what was proposed to bo
done. He could not say, from what he had been able to
learn with re:pect to the voluntary principle, that the
position of the Chinch in the United States showed the
b Lea of such a step ; on the contrary, if there had
Leen any doubt at all with respect to the advantage
of a State support bring given to the Church, that doubt
would at once disappear when the matter was tested by
the position of the Church in Amer7ca.
_ . . .

Lord GRANVILLE regretted the multiplieity d
amendments of wLich notice had been given, and the
effect of wLich would be to exhaust the whole surplus.
But he could not perceive how Lord Grey's proposition
would avoid that source of perplexity, and he aplealed to
Lord Grey to withdraw it.

After a short discussion,
Lord GI:EY withdrew Lis opposition, and the preamble
was accordiog:y postponed.
In clause 2 and elsewhere,

The Archbishop of CANTERBURY moved tc insert
1872 for 1871. The amendment was resisted by Lord
Granville, on the ground that delay would be prejudicial
to the Irish Church itself. It was supported by Lord
Cairns After remarks by the Duko of Leinster and Lords
Carnarvon and Denman, the amendment was agreed to on
a division by 130 to 74.
The Duke of Lull, AND then moved the omission of
the cause, in which he was vehemently supported by the
Blshep of. Lichfield, to whom the Bishop of Oxford re-
plied with cqual vehemence. After observations by
Lords Stanhope, Chelmsford, Lyttelton, Cairns, and Lif-
furd, the amendment ens negatived without a division.
Lord MONCK'S amendments—that in clause 4 the ap-
peal from one Commissioner should be to three Commis-
s?uners ; in clause 5, that the Comtnis.sioners should have
power, w:.hout the Lord-Lieutenant's consent, to al point
and remove their officers, excepting the Secretary ; and
in clause 6, which mpow2rs the Conunissioners o pay all
inc dental expenses of carrying the Act into execution,
that they E oul dbe authorised t ply tli,, expenses of
any ehdatant in establishing a claim under the Act—were
agreed to.
In clause 7, Lord Westbur3's am( niments to substitute
"which it may be necessary" for " which they may deem
it r xpedient or necessary," and to insert "due" before
x-cution of their powers" —were accepted by the Go-
vernment. His amendments to refuse the Commissioners
t•te power of committing for contempt was resisted by
Lord Penzance, the Lord Chancellor, and Lord Romilly,
E crl Granville, a.d Lord Halifax, and supported by
Lord Chelmsford, the Bi-hop of Peterborough, and
Lord Cairns. And after a long discussion a compro-
mise, suggested by Lord Cairns, WRS acct pled, and
the words, "in the presence of the Commissioners," or
any of them, sitting in open Court," were agreed to be
added after the words " guilty of contempt." Lord West-
bury did not press his proposed amendment, in the same
clause, to give an appeal from the decisions of the Com-
missioners, or tiny two, to the Court of Chancery Appeal
in Ireland.

Clause 8 was amended according to a suggestion by
Lord• CAIRNS, and so amended was agreed to, as was
also clause 9, Lord Westbury not pressing his amend-
ment to reduce the Commissioners' term of office from ten
to five years.

Progress was rc•porLd, after clause 10 had been
agreed to.
Their lordships adjourned at 25 minutes past twelve
o'clock.

HOUSE OF COSINIONS.—LAST EVENING.
The SPEAKER took the chair at two o'clock.
IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL.

On this bill being considered, the ATTORNEY-
GENERAL moved the insertion of a clause making the
act applicable to the Vexatious Indictment Act, and to
provide for the case of a justice of the peace becoming
bankrupt or arranging with his creditor, in which event
he should become incapable as a justice of the peace for
five years.
The new clauses were agreed to.
Mr. Sergeant SIMON moved the omission of the first
paragraph in clause 5, which instituted an entire new sys-
tem of jurisprudence.
.The enactment of the fifth clause
perilled a man's liberty, for the proviso, as it stood on
affidavit, might be cooked up in an attorney's office be-
hind the unfortunate man's back, and thus he might be
kept in prison for the space of 40 cloys.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the motion.
The clause had been discussed three times by the house
in committee, and the object of it was merely to sustain
the county court jurisdiction which was extended by the
bill to the superior courts. If the clause was omitted he
thought they might as well give up the bill and take no
further trouble in the matter.
Mr. lIADFIELD thought it would be worth the while
of the custodians of the public revenue to pay many of the
miserable debts of a few shillings for which people might
be sent to prison under this 34t, rather than incur the
expense of maintaining the poor creatures in prison for
the term sot out in the act.

After a short discussion the proposition was negatived.
Several other amendments having been discussed, the
bill was ultimately ordered to be real r third time.
UNIVERSITY TESTS BILL.

On the motion for the house going into committee on
this bill, Mr. C. BENTINCK moved that the house re-
solve itself into committee that day three months.

The house ultimately went into committee on the bill
without a division, Mr. G. Hardy intimating that he would
take a division on clause 6, and it was carried by 121 —21 G
t)95.

The further progress of the Lill was then postponed
until Friday.
On the reassembling, of the house at nine o'clock, Mr.
G. Alco:,E called attention to the case of the Fenian con-
victs still in cr,nfiuement for political offt noes, and moved
a resolution to the effect that it is the duty of the Govern-
ment to institute a public inquiry into the penal discipline
of our prisons, for the purpose of a better classifintion of
prisoners; distinguishing the tried from the un,ried, and
ho might be charged with offences froth thos,,,, who,
under excel tion::1 circumstances, might be temporarily
ch brined without any specific charge having been pre-
ferred against them ; aue that it should form part of the
inquiry how far political offenders should be regarded as
a separate class, and how far the severity of the punish-
ment to which the political convicts brtite been already
subjected might be regarded as reasonable grounds for a
tavourable consideration in their ease.
After a short discussion the subject dropped, and the
house atijournt.d.

DUNVILLE anrl Co., Belfast, are the largest
holders of Whisky in the wend. Their Old Irish Whisky is ro
:,,nimended L•y the medical profession in preference to French
Brandy. Supplied in casks and cases for home use or exporta-
tion Quotations on application to Messrs. Dunville and Co.,
Belfa.t; cr 4, BeaufertrhadingsStrand, Luudon, W,C.—(Ad
Y.v,l um...lieut.